The Talk Show

156: ‘Yo, Dingus’, With Special Guest Merlin Mann

 

  this is episode this CL VI of the box already have to see LVN i CLD I mr. [TS]

  Roman numerals last I didn't listen to last week's episode you see you UMBC [TS]

  talked about Roman numerals again huh yeah its ponderous i got on it i guess i [TS]

  gotta a rant because of the getting rid of the 10 and Mac os10 alright i I've [TS]

  hated it all along I hated it right from the first version it's that I don't like [TS]

  it any way you might have never liked ls10 as the name of the operating system [TS]

  now I just think that it was x.x is the coolest letter of the alphabet and it [TS]

  was a way to put it but the coolest letter of the alphabet name but because [TS]

  it's so cool half the people pronounce it OSX I did it I did it for years I I i [TS]

  think i made a gesture keep a sharp one time when I told him how I got into mom [TS]

  the PHP myadmin and done Universal Search to change all my OSX as one word [TS]

  20 s SpaceX you don't want to tell a pearl user that's how you fix stuff on [TS]

  the internet you have the right side of my city is what I didn't feel so bad [TS]

  that was thinking how do I obliterate this um but isn't a conventional wisdom [TS]

  he told me is up to the mac blogger it in the conventional wisdom that they're [TS]

  gonna switch to this kind of standardized way for mac OS is a [TS]

  consensus or yes it's very simple [TS]

  the only question is whether they're going to capitalize the m and mac OS [TS]

  even though they themselves don't capitalize the eye and iOS or the W and [TS]

  watch Os or the T and T BOS they don't capitalize the tea in the v right and as [TS]

  one gotta go I gotta go lower case [TS]

  yeah but that the counter-argument and there was like a unusual it seem like i [TS]

  don't know if you know it just seems like an unusual mistake for Apple to [TS]

  make but they had like an environmental like they're there [TS]

  whatever the day is where you celebrate the world's environment [TS]

  what's that called me before green day maybe birthday birthday [TS]

  yeah what's the difference Greenday on green day they they had at the [TS]

  promotional page up and they said something blah blah blah and they [TS]

  spelled it a mac OS with a capital M closed up i have another friend my [TS]

  friend Matt who said that this is going to bug him because he's like us goes [TS]

  back to the old days of the classic mac OS where they called the OS mac OS but [TS]

  back then it was capital m.a.c space LS and and said in set in government [TS]

  yeah but you know when you'll be writing about it when you see publications that [TS]

  would mention it and spelled it closed up it was your spotting an error right [TS]

  right so the way that we think they're now going to spell it was a late [TS]

  nineties frequent a typo and now it's going to be apparently the real way I [TS]

  think but the argument that they might capitalize it without capitalizing the [TS]

  other ones is that mac is a registered trademark and ys TV and I yeah are not [TS]

  well you know the other thing is for think about it for so long how you know [TS]

  Matt was a you know that was a name that insiders mostly called it but you know [TS]

  it seems like you know it just ended up in the popular imagination macintosh and [TS]

  apple for a number of years were synonymous which is going to drive [TS]

  people crazy i know i know there are things before the mac but macintosh and [TS]

  able to this stage on Roderick still calls the company mcintosh I think [TS]

  because that's for a long time those were kind of conflated to be sort of the [TS]

  same thing so mcintosh means something Mac means something but Mac OS I mean [TS]

  out that how much are they even know is a can of worms but you know the mac is [TS]

  not the central pillar and what they're doing anymore it and that reflects its [TS]

  place as part of the ecosystem [TS]

  I think up was that the the other guy on ATP we talk about the the other guy is [TS]

  not Casey yes down on their show last week they're talking about their [TS]

  excellent new t-shirt designs you're the worst and I that's a great design i [TS]

  totally violence well I don't like the watch what watch one [TS]

  the the ATP apple / BMW M is brilliant for that show its it i mean it's I saw [TS]

  that design and I was like oh my god how did that not I i think they ought to [TS]

  make that they're the logo of the show i mean it's it's amazing because of the [TS]

  whole gimmick where they the whole reason I even have the ATP show is that [TS]

  they had a car podcast for a while [TS]

  it's a classic logo in that sense of being being very attracted to look at it [TS]

  looks kind of cool kind of retro but if you get the jokes it's kind of perfect [TS]

  right in his explainer though Casey described it as a reference to the six [TS]

  color mcintosh logo just to say that you know that you know the way that people [TS]

  conflated apple with Macintosh was not the Macintosh logo it was it was the [TS]

  apple logo i think i think Josh siracusa pointed out that but that was an error [TS]

  this is you know you're getting into this territory where man you're going to [TS]

  get into the you know the greater nerd syndrome [TS]

  there's going to be always always gonna be somebody that know slightly more [TS]

  about this and it's slightly less interesting and how they describe it [TS]

  just keeps getting worse and worse and worse it'll serve actually your quarters [TS]

  on the airport or represents remember her ever seen a rainbow [TS]

  oh thanks buddy super helpful i miss it [TS]

  I you know I still how long now has it been that what you know just gray or [TS]

  four wagons black apple but i miss it man [TS]

  when used to be when you bought a mac you got the bastards we started stickers [TS]

  but now the stickers are just white but the rainbow stickers are so cool and [TS]

  they're so I mean there so like they're so eighties but they're also seventies [TS]

  and they're kind of I don't know there's sort of like weirdly timeless and retro [TS]

  yeah I miss it I miss it [TS]

  they still they've they've started slightly bringing it back a little bit [TS]

  and retro situations didn't they [TS]

  I i think they brought it back for the LGBT pride parade in San Francisco [TS]

  oh that's cool or else they did something that clearly referenced it you [TS]

  know with the connection between the rainbow is a symbol for that community [TS]

  and and apple and then I think that they stuck it in a car [TS]

  Marshall I i know they day I don't use it at least one because they had a [TS]

  commercial where they showed people's beat-up macbooks with stickers on them [TS]

  oh and they did a super-fast yes fast and and one of them was an old-school [TS]

  apple logo which was it was like whoa is a good you know a real geek [TS]

  it was cool to see Apple put up a computer with the six color apple logo [TS]

  again even though it was in they didn't like Trotsky it didn't disappear it was [TS]

  still in a nightmare and I could've sworn there was another commercial this [TS]

  is why I need to live audience [TS]

  there's you know that shows what the live audience somebody would already [TS]

  have the link in there i think there was one where they ended it i don't know if [TS]

  it was that one where they went through the apple 40 years and 40 seconds or [TS]

  what but they had a spot where they showed it i do miss it did you [TS]

  it's an interesting time very interesting times funny always were [TS]

  watching the Warriors game the other night I was again that logo is that [TS]

  those uniforms with what's the worst matter was like she's like what the hell [TS]

  are you talking about that's totally their throwback retro girl was like oh [TS]

  that's cool and kind of like that what's good news hope I kinda hate they're like [TS]

  and its really bad because they even used that what's that goof on to the [TS]

  that like fake classy have to look out anyway I'd it's it's not a good logo i [TS]

  kind of like their colors I like the colors idea to get to like the [TS]

  three-pointers [TS]

  oh yeah it's like it's kind of guys at a copper plate make a little bit a little [TS]

  bit cop not quite copper plate but yeah it's copper plate [TS]

  yeah copperplate that's exactly the phone i'm thinkin that's one of those [TS]

  fonts that I i used to use like when i first started started working in design [TS]

  because i thought wow this makes everything look classy now absolutely [TS]

  it's like papyrus for men with the men's wearhouse suits you know used to be [TS]

  comic sans and now it's papyrus this is there are or you know full of mystery [TS]

  mistress fun like you know mistress fun if you like Guy Fieri at a beach bar [TS]

  i'll roll mistral you know that's fine you know I mean the surface fine [TS]

  yeah yeah I don't like but you know any know even copperplate fine you know [TS]

  pickaway to have some fun with it but like [TS]

  papyrus man piracy is the new comic sans if it's like a sign your spa or it's [TS]

  your menu of the day it's like it's always papyrus so with the warriors [TS]

  would be I would eat at how amazing is it that that photo of eddy cue with [TS]

  Stephan Stephan curry that was hot it was a delightful so perfect I thought it [TS]

  was a wonderful image I want some nice shoes but he's wearing flip-flops it's [TS]

  it's one of those images though where it's like uh I mean I'm not good i [TS]

  haven't been into basketball for awhile used to be really into basketball but i [TS]

  like the sport and I happened to find the style that Golden State place to be [TS]

  delightful [TS]

  it's a team that really has fun playing basketball and I used to play basketball [TS]

  I found the reason i like playing it is that i find that it is a very fun game [TS]

  to play especially if it goes right if you're moving the ball around and [TS]

  everybody's getting the ball and and you're fast breaks and it's lots of [TS]

  scoring and it's not just you know 27 foot guys slowly but surely backing [TS]

  their way to the basket it it can be a beautiful game and that's how Golden [TS]

  State plays and it's like watching a video game sometimes with these guys [TS]

  we're shooting from 10 feet past the three-point line and and just hit [TS]

  nothing but net lots of fun to watch somebody I've really been into the [TS]

  playoffs this year and of course I know who Eddie can do is I had him on my show [TS]

  even write and then here's the photo of the game of one of the most amazing [TS]

  games in recent NBA history and its ionic and what alright become an iconic [TS]

  photo [TS]

  yeah it really well and he's wearing flip-flops [TS]

  he's just better than 10 years a lot of presentations [TS]

  it's cool if I crash here for a couple weeks that's all right Eddie but you [TS]

  know you gotta believe at some point [TS]

  here's my first night was my take on the flip-flops is first and foremost that I [TS]

  understand it gets California thing and I'm not I'm an East Coast person we [TS]

  don't really you know grown men don't really wear flip flops out even if it's [TS]

  just to a basketball game but i understand it [TS]

  California is a little little more casual my take on it though is having [TS]

  been to a lot of events sporting events rock concerts etc at an arena type [TS]

  atmosphere the [TS]

  that the floor situation isn't all that great now I realize he had courtside [TS]

  seats and maybe they they make an effort to keep the spilled beer and soda to a [TS]

  minimum down there at the courtside but that's my first thought is is that you [TS]

  kind of want some some waterproof footwear when you go to an arena [TS]

  haha god what do you begin [TS]

  well first of all I mean it will you realize that wasn't that wasn't in [TS]

  Oklahoma get no no it was all across the rivers over there to sell it okay but I [TS]

  mean you know the bay area is not California it's it's a different thing [TS]

  and it's not a question of you know I mean it's one thing like you know live [TS]

  in pasadena or something like a look at me i don't have toes on my shoes it but [TS]

  like here like man if you're walking around San Francisco do not want to be [TS]

  wearing flip-flops [TS]

  it's just so me when I want my daughters game we get ready to go downtown with my [TS]

  daughter like I want to put her in a Tyvek suit like no I mean she's got it [TS]

  she's gonna wear socks and shoes and let you know I want to put on some like you [TS]

  know medical booties [TS]

  it's like haha not good they're moving the I think they're talking about moving [TS]

  the arena right near where my wife works which is very near AT&T Park here we [TS]

  asked for a yes and like kind of across the street from a children's emergency [TS]

  hospital so she should be really interesting to try and get your kid [TS]

  enduring a big game [TS]

  I don't watch sports I'm not into sports are I've been enjoying watching on slack [TS]

  talking about the total fantastic fantastic anecdote you probably won't [TS]

  share here but an amazing anecdote about your basketball career that I i love you [TS]

  two share sometime i would share I'll share my story almost as okay i'd love [TS]

  to hear that one always shares it's like if you're gonna be somebody who watches [TS]

  three sports games a year [TS]

  boy that was a great one to watch yeah because it reminds me a little bit of [TS]

  like how I you know there's time when I enjoyed watching tennis i'm not like a [TS]

  tennis fan but used to be you know the eighties you could really enjoy that [TS]

  combination of like ace serves plus a lot of just insane volleying and it [TS]

  feels like that got that we might talk about this before but it feels like [TS]

  tennis eventually just become all about the aces and all about like the hidden [TS]

  super super hard and the PDF watching those two teams and the way that they [TS]

  complimented the way that the other plate is yeah you're gonna get this two [TS]

  guys def korean guy looks like Steph Curry [TS]

  we're gonna be dropping a lot of 3-pointers and that's amazing but then [TS]

  it can also be Steph Curry like just here it's almost like he's moving [TS]

  through a party and just like that [TS]

  excuse me excuse me like you're like you know he's like you know I just need to [TS]

  get by here for a minute boom layup [TS]

  ok how do you do that how do you move past all those people [TS]

  fast-paced they got the long game throwing from from three points they're [TS]

  going up for the lamps the teamwork is fantastic on both teams and you just you [TS]

  just see these two teams that are so well-matched and are both operating at [TS]

  the height of their performance and it's a complete delight to watch he moves [TS]

  through the defense while dribbling the basketball in a way that i don't think [TS]

  most athletic people could get through the same defense without the basketball [TS]

  just run just slip through these guys just get through them [TS]

  you sure if you give you sure somebody that pattern like with like Fred Astaire [TS]

  feet on the floor dance moves and said somebody go repeat what he just did five [TS]

  times there's no way somebody could do it it really i think it really and [TS]

  install it is always more impressive in slow-motion it really looks like some [TS]

  kind of visual effects shot that you know Todd Vaziri put together you know [TS]

  like hear stuff just run through this crowd and then I'll out you know we'll [TS]

  make sure we'll put the basketball in after you do it we'll do it and post it [TS]

  is composited yeah yeah likely you see one of those guys what's the guy's name [TS]

  i forget his name the other klay Thompson Thompson you had that montage [TS]

  to put up with great his 11 three-pointers but the crazy part is you [TS]

  know i'm used to watching basketball in the larry bird era and when you see [TS]

  these guys moving so fast passing so fast and you see somebody feat beyond [TS]

  the three-point line they've had the ball for about a quarter of a second [TS]

  they take a shot and my friend me is all that's a shame throw away that shot at [TS]

  getting that did that you wish doesn't even touch the rim like what has become [TS]

  what is this game I don't even recognize this game anymore it's so much more fun [TS]

  to watch [TS]

  I think that what happened is that it's taken until now or even though the [TS]

  three-pointer the three-pointer went into the NBA i think in 1981 or so and [TS]

  it came to college in [TS]

  like the later eighties and then in high school around the same time too so i [TS]

  when i played high school basketball we had the three-point shot but it was new [TS]

  like the paint on the court in the high school gym was different color than the [TS]

  rest of the court because it would be glad to pay a guy to come in at it and [TS]

  the coaches are a an all-sports tend to be conservative they are you know they [TS]

  they they don't want to rock the boat and so it was always treated as a [TS]

  novelty and you don't want to you know they'd always coaches are always tell me [TS]

  you know you don't want to win winner loser die by the three you or live or [TS]

  die by the three [TS]

  when was the only it must have seemed like a risky trick yeah and if you miss [TS]

  two or three in a row coaches would be like that's it you know you know stop [TS]

  shooting it because you're you know you're you're cold tonight [TS]

  whereas I klay Thompson the other night missed six or seven his first six or [TS]

  seven 3-pointers and just kept firing em up there and eventually they go in [TS]

  because that's actually that's actually the way statistics work right [TS]

  did you don't really want to posted that image that was the basic the second half [TS]

  in shots you see that graphic and was like taking shots taking shots missed [TS]

  oh no that was our our mutual friend Ben Thompson posting cat that's incredible [TS]

  yeah and just where they took the shot and just two different styles of play [TS]

  where Oklahoma City is not really it it actually a relatively poor three-point [TS]

  shooting team overall and and that the Golden State shot chart like this little [TS]

  dots on the court of where they took shots [TS]

  it looked like this is this looks like that the time and practice when we [TS]

  practice our 3-pointers right right right when with nobody with nobody harms [TS]

  you know waving around so i think what happened is that it took until now to [TS]

  get coaches who grew up in the three-point era to really embrace it as [TS]

  a it's okay to shoot it and in just you know to for your edification Steve Kerr [TS]

  the coach of a golden state was a wonderful three-point shooter he played [TS]

  college ball at Arizona I think he graduated this is I used to be a sports [TS]

  fanatic and I can't even tell you when he graduated I think he graduated in [TS]

  1988 and then he had a very nice pro career including playing with the the [TS]

  Michael Jordan Bulls later and in the late nineties he was more or less the [TS]

  guy who like when Michael Jordan would [TS]

  double-teamed or even triple teamed Steve Kerr was the guy who's who's man [TS]

  probably left him to go double team Jordan and Jordan would just flip the [TS]

  ball and he would knock down 3-pointers so I think having a coach who grew up in [TS]

  the three-point era really makes the difference in terms of embracing it [TS]

  I think I saw a stat the other day that and now Larry Bird in the eighties was I [TS]

  think without question the best three-point shooter in the NBA but even [TS]

  he Larry Bird is on record as saying he doesn't even like the rule he kind of he [TS]

  he's always thought it was a gimmick and that you know he'd shoot it because he [TS]

  could shoot from that far but he always thought two points is good enough for [TS]

  anybody who or where I guess the mantra that a lot of the old-timers had was [TS]

  that I you shouldn't be able to lose with a two-point lead and you know that [TS]

  the worst you do is go to overtime and a three-point lead should be a sure thing [TS]

  that if you have a three-point lead with with seconds to go [TS]

  you could just walk off the court because that's it you're you that's good [TS]

  enough to win and then you can do you see real changes in sports I'm this is [TS]

  actually this is a question not a statement we see rule changes in sports [TS]

  just as a way outside observer it seems like they're often in the interest of [TS]

  making it more interesting or speeding things up or closing some kind of a [TS]

  loophole that makes the game less competitive and interesting given [TS]

  certain conditions that that kind of a fair statement like this without [TS]

  puncturing football it seems like that's really the case [TS]

  yeah and a three-point line is definitely that sort of idea that it was [TS]

  a it was an answer to what was seen as an epidemic that the game was being [TS]

  taken over by seven footers who just you know just toss the ball into him down [TS]

  down low and watch them you know banging away at the Khal Drogo guy playing for [TS]

  Oklahoma's pretty amazing though that that shot that shot the deck i made like [TS]

  he just jumped toward the net [TS]

  he seems like it's about three feet off being able to don't get any somehow just [TS]

  getting in some amazing to watch [TS]

  it's good stuff alright let me take a break and thank our our first sponsor [TS]

  and it's a new sponsor for the show I good friends at mat.com [TS]

  these guys run a daily daily deal site go to mah . com and every day they have [TS]

  a new thing that's for sale and sometimes they sell out because only [TS]

  have a limited number of them sometimes they don't and they're the same guys who [TS]

  years ago how to cite called woot you could tell they even sort of the name [TS]

  their stuff the same way except they were more excited back then they were [TS]

  excited in the early days and they named it woot and now they've they've been [TS]

  beaten down by the man and they just call it matter because what happened is [TS]

  they sold route to amazon it did not go well and eventually like it got to the [TS]

  point where we're under amazon and was selling multiple items a day and the [TS]

  wood guys were like you know where we're a daily deal site the whole gimmick is [TS]

  we sell one thing that day and Amazon was like well we're amazon and we sell [TS]

  everything and so they left and they started the side up again and they just [TS]

  call it math and it's great it is it's not just about the daily deals though [TS]

  the thing is they put it he got to read the descriptions they write for it [TS]

  they're real writers and they put funny videos up its really like the daily-deal [TS]

  thing is just an excuse for them to create the sort of content that they [TS]

  want to create that's really what what they want is they want people coming to [TS]

  check out the site every day just to see what they've posted what they've written [TS]

  the funny videos they've put together and then if you happen to like the the [TS]

  deal of the day you can buy it and if you don't you can just give it a they [TS]

  even have a button you just sign up and give an account you give it a map and [TS]

  then they know that you you weren't interested [TS]

  so really great stuff very fun very interesting these guys are super clever [TS]

  so go check them out at men.com I got a killer deal today [TS]

  what's their deal today this week too late nobody's gonna be able to get it [TS]

  because only by the time John Smith's meta too late because its first of all [TS]

  as we record this it is sold out but also it's a deal day you know that again [TS]

  just going in reading for the writing is so fun they get the FoodSaver vacuum [TS]

  sealing system i'll be it refurbished i paid 80 bucks for this in a couple [TS]

  months ago I do lots of sous-vide cooking at home it's the second 22 bucks [TS]

  out the door that's crazy [TS]

  here's their description you shouldn't use this to seal marijuana that you [TS]

  legally buy in Washington Oregon and Alaska of Colorado so it's easier to [TS]

  conceal when traveling to or through other states of matter how ridiculous [TS]

  this matter how ridiculous you think it is for position of a plan to be legal in [TS]

  one state but illegal and others no matter how obvious it is that marijuana [TS]

  prohibition is on its last legs worldwide that would be wrong so that [TS]

  you can get from them all right you want to tell me basketball story and would i [TS]

  I'm not embarrassed to tell the story III so when I when I was in high school [TS]

  I played recreational basketball i was i was pretty good my senior year I scored [TS]

  14 points a game and we had a pretty good team and I could shoot you know my [TS]

  my thing i don't like to mix it and what we shared was your position before her [TS]

  sort of like a small forward or maybe at all shooting guard it's you know but [TS]

  I've my own but I was good at good if you know passing on a fast break and I [TS]

  scored lots of lamps on fast breaks and I was good at shooting three [TS]

  although i think the most i ever made the game was five or six it may be mad [TS]

  because I played the christmas ornament one time and they had a thing in the the [TS]

  the like a school hosted like a little you know round-robin to Timor 14 [TS]

  Christmas tournament they had a little program and I had like are our christmas [TS]

  tournament records and one of them was four 3-pointers 44 like across the whole [TS]

  tournament and I broke it and then the next year they didn't put that record in [TS]

  because online they only printed it because it was one of their home team [TS]

  players who had it made me mad [TS]

  anyway there is a team in our county that we play a couple times a year and [TS]

  there's a kid on the team who I'm guessing was born this way but you know [TS]

  could have been an accident but he only had one hand and I think it was his left [TS]

  hand and he was about my size and he was really was actually pretty good at [TS]

  basketball and so because he was about my size i often guarded and I remember [TS]

  early on maybe like 10th grade maybe 11th grade we're playing a summer league [TS]

  game and I was guarding them and he was posted me up in other words he's backing [TS]

  me down on the paint and so my chest is to his back [TS]

  and it all of a sudden I felt on it did that the number that we're at the end i [TS]

  can all just was sort of missing the hand and is his wrist ended with like a [TS]

  little nub anything and all of a sudden I felt the nubbin in my hand and I [TS]

  instinctively was just a little bit [TS]

  honestly I was a little grossed out I took a step back and his teammate [TS]

  passing the ball and he turned around and made a layup because i wasn't right [TS]

  on his back anymore and I thought oh man and then like next possession or two you [TS]

  know five two minutes later the same thing happens except he's like sticking [TS]

  in my stomach and I thought son-of-a-bitch this guys doing it on [TS]

  purpose and I was like I'm not gonna I'm not falling for this and I had told [TS]

  nothing but I was like that that is I had nothing but respect for me but I [TS]

  figured it out and I played him for years afterwards and he did it all the [TS]

  time and i would i would tell my teammates [TS]

  hey either let me garden or if you're going to garden know that he's gonna [TS]

  he's gonna do this and I would watch you need to do it all the time and i have I [TS]

  thought it was so gina was like a way of like him you know [TS]

  hey this I have nothing but respect for the guy because he was actually a good [TS]

  shooter he could you know shoot the 3-pointer and everything with one hand [TS]

  then I like you wouldn't think so like anybody who said you wouldn't look at [TS]

  another person criticized because of that kind of snow fair he's got long [TS]

  legs or that got big hands or that guy's got long arms or a good I he's just he's [TS]

  using what he's got effectively yeah and that's it's you know i'm not you know [TS]

  have nothing but no complaint about it but it i thought it was genius i thought [TS]

  it was a way of embracing you know taking a limitation and embracing and [TS]

  making the most of it and i'll tell you it worked it absolutely love the first [TS]

  time with me it worked like a charm and I remember when other people on my team [TS]

  regarding them seeing at work and saying I told you he was gonna do that [TS]

  ah sports [TS]

  yeah I so we were going to talk about know there's anything else you want to [TS]

  talk about front but we could talk about I want to talk about this AI stuff yeah [TS]

  me too and I know it's driving people nuts [TS]

  it's driving people nuts to call this a i and III don't know why I don't see how [TS]

  anybody could deny that you know I i know there's you know some kind of [TS]

  formal computer science PhD level definition of artificial intelligence in [TS]

  that in some ways this doesn't apply but if if you took an Amazon echo back or [TS]

  took someone I guess you can't take it back because it wouldn't have the [TS]

  internet but took someone from 1978 to today and showed them an Amazon echo and [TS]

  say is this artificial intelligence yes or no they're gonna say yes right right [TS]

  it it's almost like every time we solve an AI problem once we solve it it it no [TS]

  longer because is magical and therefore it no longer counts as a i j is only [TS]

  just because you would understand how the effect was pulled off doesn't make [TS]

  it a magic trick [TS]

  I mean it's still it's still a magic trick even if you understand the effect [TS]

  and to bring somebody from making 78 and I yell at my my dingus and say hey [TS]

  Winston expert train coming [TS]

  that's that's magic that feels like AI even if that's not what a computer [TS]

  scientist would call it right even if like once you know how the trick is done [TS]

  you're like well just hooks up to the the local api for your public is up to [TS]

  the magic network in the sky that connects all computers oh by the way did [TS]

  we mention there's a magic networking this guy that connects all computers now [TS]

  oh by the way to mention everyone has computers in their pocket now right [TS]

  if the device knows the weather because it's got a gps and you know knows your [TS]

  zip code by the way we can predict weather now we need to be able to do [TS]

  oh by the way your pocket advisor looks up to you by your computer makes a [TS]

  beeping noise when it's about to rain in the next two minutes the devices know [TS]

  where they are to within a house or to know your kind of cuisine that isn't [TS]

  even popular yet that you can request in your neighborhood on your pocket [TS]

  computer right look [TS]

  yours look house this isn't a I your phone thinks it's next door [TS]

  oh that's so stupid just because you say or do you just get you say to your your [TS]

  pocket computer tell my wife i'll be running late and it knows that is that [TS]

  there are of course the trick [TS]

  that's a there's other little wizard inside of there do you know what I i try [TS]

  to either thing is finding you saw in my my long discursive notes about this that [TS]

  I guess I feel like part of it is I'm just trying to do two things one is I'm [TS]

  trying to avoid using what I know to be terms of art so I mean people talk about [TS]

  AI talk about machine learning and even getting a specific as saying Justin of [TS]

  Syria or echo or what have you [TS]

  it's just I'm more interested in what the stuff is doing for consumer and I [TS]

  mean that requires a little bit of extrapolating about what's happening [TS]

  technically behind it but i don't think that i don't think it makes it any less [TS]

  fascinating what's happening when we don't call it a science a name i [TS]

  completely agree [TS]

  so I'm just brushing all this under the umbrella of AI because I don't know what [TS]

  else to say it's you know I think separate invoices systems versus AI is [TS]

  not not helpful when we get to all of the constituent parts that you know so [TS]

  if we say Siri you know to paraphrase Raymond Carver we know what we talk [TS]

  about when we talk about co which part of Syria you mean we're talking about [TS]

  dictation are you talking about you know being able to interact with their talk [TS]

  about the button on your phone like that means lots of different things and I [TS]

  feel like to understand where this stuff is going it's very helpful [TS]

  it's not helpful to fixate on what we call it it's helpful to focus on what it [TS]

  does and what are the potential as far as i can tell in the machine no short to [TS]

  medium-term what are the things that are likely to help or hinder the growth of [TS]

  all of these various pieces that we losing the lights every time a holiday I [TS]

  that's that's my feeling [TS]

  you know if we just keep calling a week . so what does that mean is the kind of [TS]

  thing you do when you're talking to your phone in your car [TS]

  the same thing as what's happening when I have TT turns your humidifier off like [TS]

  those are such different things and yet they are completely related because they [TS]

  are part of this ecosystem down to the ability [TS]

  set down to the ability to pick which florist you want to use when you talk [TS]

  into your pocket computer [TS]

  those are all part of the same system and I feel like we gets really confused [TS]

  when people try to just keep throwing it throwing it under the bus by all by [TS]

  calling it all this same like fruity future world stuff that nobody is ever [TS]

  going to want a quick aside I've been struggling i think a lot of podcasters [TS]

  struggle i know i have talking about this stuff because there's the phrase [TS]

  you can say to address serie I that you don't want to say on a podcast because [TS]

  it can trigger it on listeners phones and devices if they're not listening [TS]

  with headphones and a reader suggested I i wrote this down and unfortunately I [TS]

  did not write down his name and I'm sorry I'd love to give you credit [TS]

  whoever you are I thank you [TS]

  he his solution is that while we're talking about our podcast we can say hey [TS]

  comma Siri how about kind of suggests that's very good i suggest another one [TS]

  don't even better about your dingus [TS]

  okay because that's not a trigger nothing right now although i might have [TS]

  you and i start to start up with one of these things easy because i think we [TS]

  would definitely call ours is the dinkus we are doing good [TS]

  I can't have dead weight my incubator everythingís think it's alright I like [TS]

  that too so i'm going to put that out there hey commissary if you want to talk [TS]

  about Syrian particular and then we'll say yo dingus to address these things in [TS]

  general I just think it's AI think the terminology is interesting because Siri [TS]

  is an umbrella term for stuff that is not really AI like you said it's eat or [TS]

  even we even call it Siri when you're just talking about voice dictation where [TS]

  you just hit the little microphone to to dictate a text that you want typed out [TS]

  you're not even asking a query or anything like that whereas google [TS]

  doesn't really it seems like until very recently they didn't even have a name [TS]

  for their thing I used to call it google now but then I found out google now [TS]

  isn't really the AI think now is like they're contextual thing where they show [TS]

  you cards based on what they think you want to see at the moment [TS]

  and now they call it google assistant i guess for the private benefit their [TS]

  brand to just to not overly disambiguate that by just getting used to the idea [TS]

  that google is this big bunch of functionality that helps you with your [TS]

  life so you know they might have brand names for things but i would think when [TS]

  you hail it it's unlike the other ones it does make sense that you would say yo [TS]

  google yeah i think that from a just a typical user standpoint it doesn't [TS]

  matter because it all end and maybe it's less confusing for them to just think of [TS]

  Google as a thing that they can talk to instead of just type at you just just [TS]

  just give it to us just tell us what you want and we'll just because it's it's [TS]

  it's shockingly fast that I mean it's right there one of the distinctions are [TS]

  making their i mention this couple is going back to work is you know there are [TS]

  a lot of folks who understandably gave up on everything serie a long time ago [TS]

  which I have to say is somewhat understandable given the basic way most [TS]

  of us deal with this stuff which is we try it it works or doesn't work we tried [TS]

  again it works or doesn't work and eventually in a fit of pique you go [TS]

  this is not for me this is for nerds and that was it was true Syria for a long [TS]

  time but since he got better than Cirie got way better but one way in which has [TS]

  been good for a long time so what I'm trying to sell people on this idea that [TS]

  not only well the important part is serious better than you think the [TS]

  important part is hey get used to it like start using this because this is [TS]

  where stuff is going pal [TS]

  so what I would say to people is if you're frustrated with searing you know [TS]

  not understanding your request if you don't feel comfortable with the series [TS]

  service getting your voice in functionally working which can vary a [TS]

  lot depending on your connection stuff like that one test I just said three [TS]

  times in the next week [TS]

  try using dictation where you would normally type don't talk too fast [TS]

  don't talk too slow don't talk to allow don't talk too quiet just talk to it and [TS]

  I think a lot of folks might be a little bit really interested in it [TS]

  given that for long sentence too short paragraph length things if you know what [TS]

  it is that you want to say I can pretty much guarantee even including time for [TS]

  corrections it will be faster than typing [TS]

  let's talk about dictation here as against tell me the weather in bank [TS]

  yeah i remember a couple years ago and I had the finger injury and I couldn't [TS]

  couldn't type with my left hand for a couple of weeks and i had to use [TS]

  dictation and I i ended up getting a lot of work done by installing the dragon [TS]

  naturallyspeaking thing on the Mac you know they didn't have anything like that [TS]

  for iphone and so I really like it [TS]

  you know I'm lucky because by my finger made a full recovery now so I mean but [TS]

  there's there's people like like my aforementioned opponent basketball who's [TS]

  you know hand is not gonna come back right so anything that would help i mean [TS]

  there's Jack people with genuine permanent accessibility needs that [TS]

  dictation can really really be helpful and it really wasn't there i think that [TS]

  was like twenty twelve hours how it's been a and it you know it was better [TS]

  than nothing but it was better than not having the feature in iOS but boy I wish [TS]

  it was as good as it is now because i find you know like having just come off [TS]

  the winter where it really you know when you're all bundled up and you can't [TS]

  really type while you're walking around a cold City the dictation feature i [TS]

  think it works amazingly well compared to where it was it still has much room [TS]

  for improvement but like I agree and I mean I played with thumb i mean its [TS]

  nuances at the company that makes you can dictate I mean and they for a long [TS]

  time have been there engine has been way ahead of everybody else is as far as i [TS]

  know but i mean you know i think well except maybe Google's right even and [TS]

  ideas like getting it working that David sparks's of the world can work Dragon [TS]

  Dictate like emacs where they understand it and it understands them i found it's [TS]

  super frustrating to train and retrain and I never got invested enough in it to [TS]

  like really use it [TS]

  whereas as you say I mean it's something syracuse often talks about just started [TS]

  making have sometimes of going to the google app hitting the microphone and [TS]

  talking and it is shocking how fast you can see the transcription happening as [TS]

  you're speaking the corrections now the way serie finally does now you can watch [TS]

  it making contextual create a corrections is now an apple TV we [TS]

  understand you probably mean the name of an actor rather than a [TS]

  homonym mm you see that tap that has come so far even in the last two years [TS]

  that really and apple TV did the correction the contextual corrections as [TS]

  you said are very evident because it shows you the words as as it comes up it [TS]

  has trouble titles titles can mean and be many things in many different [TS]

  languages and there's plenty of room for you know as I say how the common [TS]

  sound-alikes but if you're looking for an actor it's amazing organ music artist [TS]

  it's amazing how often it gets right on the first try [TS]

  yeah and some titles use such common words and that they're relatively short [TS]

  that the context isn't there i'll give you a specific example Jonas had a [TS]

  friend sleepover last weekend and the movie that they decided to watch and [TS]

  they did truly they have excellent taste was John Carpenter's The Thing home man [TS]

  a great movie [TS]

  oh I haven't seen it in forever i wish i was your last year it's it's still [TS]

  terrifying I'd more or less completely forgotten it but show me the thing did [TS]

  haha and i don't blame like I don't play mp3 or foo and they do both kids really [TS]

  love the series but they don't love the remote but they love the idea that you [TS]

  can just push the button and say things you know like show me that you know [TS]

  Terminator 2 and and that it shows it to you and they were you know going through [TS]

  making like a list of like here's here's like five or six movies were thinking [TS]

  about and but show me the thing didn't work and I just remember noting you know [TS]

  file that one away that's a good good example where i canno totally understand [TS]

  why it didn't work but that one's done especially thorny one but if you don't [TS]

  mind getting a little bit bash with it you can sometimes hint it a little bit [TS]

  by saying arm find find the TV show Doctor Who write or say one plate [TS]

  play the band band of horses or whatever show me the movie the thing [TS]

  exactly yeah i think that would probably work i forget what we and in fact I [TS]

  think that's what we did to to you know get it going [TS]

  it's amazing they also any one of our favorite things is I mean I i have i [TS]

  still have bitches about the apple TV that are out of the scope of this show [TS]

  but you know as somebody who buys a lot a lot a lot of stuff on the itunes store [TS]

  one of my biggest frustrations is the bigger fan you are of a TV show the more [TS]

  likely you are to find it [TS]

  inscrutable so like in the case again doctor who or in the case of shark tank [TS]

  which yes i bought several seasons stuff you when you bring up that page you say [TS]

  find fine doctor who and says this doctor who and say yes this document [TS]

  pulls it up and now you gotta go through in chronological order like starting [TS]

  from the earliest season that you've bought a video with this you can do that [TS]

  horizontal scroll yes yes my car latest trick is find the latest episode of [TS]

  shark tank who pops right up [TS]

  that's that's a great thing where like you know you may not think of Syria's [TS]

  being or voice control as being the fastest way to get to something I can [TS]

  damn near promise you that is the fastest way to get the latest episode of [TS]

  a TV show but it seems there there's definitely some frustrations there [TS]

  though where if if you do the up-down left-right it seems like it should it [TS]

  should recognize hey you've seen a lot of these shows you probably want to [TS]

  watch the new one as opposed to starting you an episode for season one that [TS]

  wasn't even HBO which has one of the crummiest apps on appletv prettiest bad [TS]

  apps even they have a two level hierarchy for its d 1 season 2 season 3 [TS]

  season 4 we can please jump into going in in straight chronological but you can [TS]

  jump to a season but but you know it's you know think for a lot of us it is [TS]

  still a case of remembering to use this and I guess that it helps to bracket [TS]

  it's your show but I mean we have two brackets some of the stuff we can talk [TS]

  about every concern about you know privacy [TS]

  although that's certainly an issue we can talk about every issue related to [TS]

  commerce I think there's still the barrier of getting people to remember [TS]

  that this is there and then learning enough to know what it's capable of and [TS]

  I think outside of our bubble that's a much smaller group than a lot of people [TS]

  are aware of it especially for people in the bubble [TS]

  I don't like how often do you see people using Siri like on the street like not a [TS]

  time in my case no now and I think within the bubble I think you made a [TS]

  good point couple minutes ago where I think I'll awful lot of people tried it [TS]

  circuit 2011-2012 and got the shits of it and just sort of filed it away as [TS]

  something that's not worth trying [TS]

  I was fighting experiment because it was hard to know which part of it was not [TS]

  working and even as a non engineer i can guess that there are several parts that [TS]

  might not work [TS]

  it might be that there was a physical occlusion where it did not get to the [TS]

  microphone maybe I had my finger there right [TS]

  if it did get to the microphone did it capture what I said if it captured what [TS]

  I said wasn't able to throw it up to the cloud if it through it up to the cloud [TS]

  wasn't able to understand what i said if i understood what I said was enabled [TS]

  energy follow like I feel like there's probably at least three or four little [TS]

  milestones between coming out of my mouth and doing a thing where it could [TS]

  go wrong and any problems with connectivity would greatly exacerbate [TS]

  even how well the product worked at best [TS]

  yeah I've had the same experience with Apple maps where it's like I i was on a [TS]

  podcast with josh Topolsky a couple months ago and he couldn't believe that [TS]

  I use Apple maps and I was like well when's the last time you tried it and he [TS]

  was like I don't know never because it's terrible and i might get so much better [TS]

  that was it really it it's actually pretty good and I know that I i say that [TS]

  and I heard from people around the world and there was somebody you know it [TS]

  somewhere in the middle of Sweden news like where's where Apple maps thinks my [TS]

  neighborhood looks like and it's like blank you know with a with a lake and so [TS]

  yeah obviously right you know but here in you know it the places I go you know [TS]

  here in Philadelphia New York City California the places I've i tend to go [TS]

  or Apple maps is actually very good and it does things like just last week Amy [TS]

  and I had to go to some store out way outside the city and the path that we [TS]

  were originally on at traffic and middle of the directions series said you know [TS]

  forget the prompt but something like you know traffic ahead you can save 10 [TS]

  minutes if you change you know [TS]

  and we're like okay sure tell us where in the city i use is up maps all time I [TS]

  didn't know that we whenever we're traveling use ways ways is something I [TS]

  would never use anywhere that it's just too it's too crafty to use anywhere that [TS]

  I know where I'm going but we're traveling it will frequently say hey you [TS]

  know pop off at this exit [TS]

  down this dirt road for two exits on a dirt road and you'll actually get there [TS]

  faster than if you stayed on the interstate [TS]

  I didn't know Apple maps did that that's new media but I I i just think that [TS]

  there's a general problem where if you start like the way that iíve written [TS]

  many times and the how apple rolls piece that i have a mac world from a few years [TS]

  ago still probably the best thing I've ever written about the company that the [TS]

  way Apple makes things as they make a thing and at first it's here it is a big [TS]

  surprise and then year after year after year they just keep making a little [TS]

  better a little better a little better a little better you know in these [TS]

  increments and it that's the that's apple and that's the way you make things [TS]

  better and better and better and it's not about these massive you know [TS]

  explosive surprise announcements every single time but i think the problem is [TS]

  if if you launch with something that's so disappointing that it makes people [TS]

  not even check out the iterative improvements a problem like there's a [TS]

  certain minimum quality you have to meet and I know that there were business [TS]

  development reasons why they launched maps when they did you know that they [TS]

  they were sort of in the negotiating battle with google and it wasn't really [TS]

  so much a choice as to okay this is good enough [TS]

  it was like we've got to launch it no matter what right now because you know [TS]

  we we've either got a launcher renew this deal with google that we don't want [TS]

  to renew now think about in the age well in really in any age since yahoo but [TS]

  definitely want there's altavista orgies or Google or Bing or whatever [TS]

  don't say porn but what's the first thing everybody looks for when they go [TS]

  in search search on your name right so if you search for your name that I mean [TS]

  let's plan for tonight [TS]

  I support him and John Gruber porn 17 million returns just I just to make sure [TS]

  nothing comes up [TS]

  haha i don't want to know but if you went so like you know especially back in [TS]

  the day when they're in other words there was there was still the potential [TS]

  of somebody unseating google as the king of that I guess you know a lot of people [TS]

  like being whatever but whenever anything new comes along where there [TS]

  might be information about you about that's the first thing you do and then [TS]

  you evaluate you [TS]

  within the period of like what 90 seconds you might make a overarching [TS]

  decision about the quality of that based on how that comports with your own idea [TS]

  of what should be there in what order right so you know if it doesn't find [TS]

  anybody with your name at all [TS]

  you make a while thats that this is garbage I think the same is true with [TS]

  Syria where like even when you would try the UH the stock searches on it and it [TS]

  was seen sometimes it would just have trouble and you didn't know why would [TS]

  you say whatever series unavailable right now you know whereas I mean to get [TS]

  out what you put up something like hound and completely bananas stuff you can do [TS]

  with how it's so fast and so good at parsing really complex stuff but you [TS]

  know what guess what how and how does not have a little button on the device [TS]

  the right so it's gonna lose it that in the same way that any other device so [TS]

  you know this is serious just recognition well serious also the fact [TS]

  that there's a button that connects with your contacts that can do functional [TS]

  things nothing else can do that in the apple ecosystem right now and even more [TS]

  now it's it's not just the button it's the always listening microphone for yo [TS]

  dingus and that's where that's where i am feeling what people felt with Syria I [TS]

  have a terrible time getting we talked about this summer on Twitter I'm my-my [TS]

  slugging percentage on yo dingus even when it's plugged in not great [TS]

  I slugging percentage for your dingus on my Apple watch is not stellar I mean [TS]

  it'sit's pretty bad and other people seem to have zero problem with it [TS]

  I don't know what I don't know either i I've i forgot i honestly forgot that [TS]

  Apple watch had yo dinguses I because it was so bad at first and then when we had [TS]

  that discussion on Twitter recently i thought let me start trying again and it [TS]

  seems better than it was when I gave up on it any worse the demos because [TS]

  everything i want to show something amazing that quicksilver style thing I [TS]

  wanted them over somebody the thing that I want to show that's amazing never [TS]

  works and when I went and conversely when I want to demonstrate how something [TS]

  never works it always works so in been bitching about this the other day on [TS]

  back to work i invoke your dingus am I look down my Apple watch was recording [TS]

  everything that i was saying but I'm Bob on phone [TS]

  a sewing machine learning in AI doesn't feel a bit like the google i/o [TS]

  announcements have slightly attenuated and slightly pivoted the way we talk [TS]

  about this stuff like I did not hear so many people talking about a time machine [TS]

  learning two months ago as much as I do now it feels like they have already had [TS]

  I feel like anyway they had a role in directing this discussion even though [TS]

  there's a bunch of unreleased stuff to wish that refers i think so i definitely [TS]

  i could be wrong [TS]

  I just feel like usually people say specifically oh I love my echo you know [TS]

  there's things i like about Syria etc but you know now that Google's in the [TS]

  game i think people might be taking a little more seriously I i think so too [TS]

  and I think that it's it's just so couldn't be more in their wheelhouse and [TS]

  you know that gets somewhat gets into marcos argument that it just doesn't it [TS]

  it does that from a certain viewpoint it looks like how can Apple ever catch up [TS]

  to google in this regard in the same way that it doesn't I don't think I think [TS]

  you can make the same argument that like in terms of like frame rate of animation [TS]

  and smoothness of the UI androids never going to catch up to have ios right on [TS]

  but that you know the question is where do they get to good enough like his [TS]

  android good enough i think for you know some people that obviously it is and [TS]

  good enough in the AI sense maybe it maybe the difference is too too far [TS]

  apart i think it's i think it's a bummer that you know marker got piled on in [TS]

  that way because i think what he's saying is very smart i mean if i were [TS]

  gonna in the you know as a monday-morning quarterback is what i [TS]

  would say right now is the problem with Apple as as Apple exist right now they [TS]

  have a pretty low ceiling were like if things get as great as they can get in [TS]

  the current state they're still not going to be that great because on the [TS]

  one hand you have google who has shown how quickly they can do great things [TS]

  with services and how much they are willing able and excited to integrate [TS]

  stuff they know about you your personal data [TS]

  to make that into a no-no say what you will about privacy in your concerns but [TS]

  there are a lot of folks out there like me who use google products because they [TS]

  feel like the payout is there like what I get in return for what they're doing [TS]

  with that day is extremely useful and then on the other hand like you know the [TS]

  sprite now for now rumors aside series still closed system whereas i get it i [TS]

  can email every friday from amazon about new stuff I can't do with the echo new [TS]

  skills and stuff it's not always you know earth-shattering stuff but there's [TS]

  always at least a couple new things a week that it does and i'm forever [TS]

  discovering new stuff the echo can do that I didn't know and for now with [TS]

  apple until we learn more about what their plan is you know if it I mean even [TS]

  if they're if the reliability dependability all that stuff becomes [TS]

  flawless even if it works great in a car even if the mic gets better you're still [TS]

  going to be kind of stuck out what Siri wants to or can do right now and that's [TS]

  it's nowhere i guess we I feel like a lot of us thought they'd be further [TS]

  along faster by now right just because they launched first and it doesn't see [TS]

  my kids [TS]

  it seems like and again I don't want to slide on it because i think on the grand [TS]

  scheme of nerds i'm actually a pro Siri how I involve solutely yeah but I think [TS]

  there's a good argument to be made that what Siri is good at now is the stuff [TS]

  that it was supposed to be good at originally right like it hasn't really [TS]

  expanded as as far outside the original feature set [TS]

  I mean it definitely has additional data sources that it didn't and just the roll [TS]

  back to the beginning of the show it it definitely knows a lot more about sports [TS]

  then it used to like i said last week it i think last week or the week before but [TS]

  it can even do things like and this is just one of those things that I was like [TS]

  there's no way over is it over under that one yet over . spread you get . [TS]

  spreads are the over-under you know you get these vegas lines and it's like I [TS]

  thought there's no way that's gonna work because a it's a little CD you know the [TS]

  fellow idea of gambling on sports is a little CD in it sort of works against [TS]

  the what they allow they allow an app that does yeah I don't know but it's [TS]

  like in the way that like every single cruise ship in the world has a casino [TS]

  except for disney's Christian [TS]

  because right it's disney and you know that's not a surprise but so you know I [TS]

  was a little color me pleasantly surprised that Siri can tell you the [TS]

  point spread of upcoming games i thought that was pretty interesting [TS]

  yeah i mean but it was just sort of thing that I think people just don't [TS]

  even try anymore [TS]

  well you know it's always such a joyful feeling as a as an Apple user as a Mac [TS]

  user in particular and peculiar joy of power users for years to have this [TS]

  experience that I haven't seen replicated in that many other places [TS]

  this for example is coming that's not gonna happen with the ion with the [TS]

  dashboard experience of any car with Apple sometimes you'll say hmm wonder [TS]

  what will happen if i do this and you do something you didn't look it up intro [TS]

  you didn't learn a key command you didn't read a PDF you just do a thing [TS]

  and it does exactly what you might have prayed that it would do you never had [TS]

  this experience with apple stuff [TS]

  yes we see what happens if I swipe all my god this changes everything and you [TS]

  going [TS]

  how did this not why is this something that you know for example what I'm [TS]

  always telling people about option click on the speaker in your menu bar in OS 10 [TS]

  you know this i think so but what happens when you get oh yeah you get the [TS]

  is input sources lot of people don't know if you option cuz it's not obvious [TS]

  if you option click on the speaker you get options to change your input and [TS]

  output devices which saves me an hour a week probably not a big deal [TS]

  um but you're accepting that many places this is the thing that I love about the [TS]

  mac and I've always loved about the mac is that yes there are you could say it's [TS]

  not discoverable but if you were going to guess how do you do it you would if [TS]

  you any and you know the mac you know that it would be the option key like if [TS]

  i said to you right there is a way there's a way to change the speaker menu [TS]

  up in the menu bar to get a different menu but you have to hold down a [TS]

  combination of keys while you click what keys one or more keys do you have to [TS]

  hold I would instantly guess you just hold the option key because that's and [TS]

  it actually makes sense semantically with the word option right it wouldn't [TS]

  be command it wouldn't be control it would definitely be on it should [TS]

  definitely be option and in fact it is option [TS]

  if you tried it for other things now you click on option click I never thought to [TS]

  do this you option click on Wi-Fi you think so yeah a diagnostic report you [TS]

  can find some nerd information do it on doing on a Bluetooth again lots of nerd [TS]

  options under their information is displayed clever nobody needs to know [TS]

  that exist unless you need to know that exists but anyway I just meant that the [TS]

  service is saying like Apple has a great history of putting stuff in there were [TS]

  hey you're going to learn if you're on a Macintosh long enough you're gonna learn [TS]

  there's at least two ways to do almost everything you don't have to learn one [TS]

  or the other but you know you will eventually learn that there's a way that [TS]

  comports with how you want to roll and if you don't know hit command shift ? [TS]

  enter the name of what you think you want it will magically appear in the [TS]

  menu bar so remember was just with system 7 there was like when you first [TS]

  ran it there was like a little I don't know if they made it with HyperCard or [TS]

  not but it was sort of a HyperCard type thing that would it was like the first [TS]

  run experience and it was like a little cartoon guy who would teach you a couple [TS]

  of shortcuts like that like it was I got a help menu that you could you could [TS]

  bring it up again with and it was sort of like show me show me some of the [TS]

  advanced tricks like being able to use command up and down arrow to go up and [TS]

  down folders in the hierarchy from the keyboard thats i love that kind of stuff [TS]

  they were so great that stuff but you know [TS]

  so let me ask a question i mean remember the announcement of home kit was kind of [TS]

  alongside a lot of other this kit that kid all this does is going to come out [TS]

  eventually the whatever the medical stuff in the the what's called apple [TS]

  health but like for example like how many how many things do you have running [TS]

  on home kit right now nothing zero for me too I swear to god I'm not I'm not [TS]

  trying to be no I right I look through the list i finally got an appt off the [TS]

  store called home that gives you a look of easy way to like if you've got this [TS]

  for that device it's got this in an inscrutable list of all these what [TS]

  appear to be like hundred i don't have any of those devices and I've got like [TS]

  I've got two kinds of security cameras three kinds of I've got Hugh lights [TS]

  I mean there's stuff you can do but like you know when they announce something [TS]

  like home kit you think like oh my gosh I maybe [TS]

  three months away from being able to talk to my house like who came on your [TS]

  own and of course you know you get into the reality distortion field now I'm [TS]

  thinking oh my gosh how soon will it be before there's an apple device that [TS]

  replaces the airport and the time machine that like it's everything you'd [TS]

  want in an airport in time machine [TS]

  plus it's a home hub plus if you know what I mean on and on and on and now [TS]

  we're like twirling our thumbs going like okay what's the next thing I cannot [TS]

  talk to my phone and do like what's going to happen with that stuff is that [TS]

  going anywhere [TS]

  we don't have that same confidence that all these pieces are going to fit [TS]

  together help we need we put on the ATV for you flip it on you can't even like [TS]

  you series for music what a weird oversight like that was so strange [TS]

  like how do you have all these strands not being sewn together in the system [TS]

  with all these parts of the ecosystem need really want to be interlocked and [TS]

  like how is that not happening [TS]

  yeah I don't know if I could see it too as i could see where on the one hand [TS]

  maybe it's like hey just wait [TS]

  we just need another year or two or be a pessimist take would be that Apple's we [TS]

  control everything everything gets authorized through us you submit your [TS]

  home kit stuff to us and we say whether it you know gets the stamp of approval [TS]

  on that the equivalent of mfi yeah the equivalent of mfi or the app store even [TS]

  you know that sort of mindset versus the Amazons take which is more or less [TS]

  look you know we've made echo work with these things and we have some api's and [TS]

  and it's you know if it works you just build an echo app and submit it to us [TS]

  and you know we'll throw it out the newsletter on friday right you know [TS]

  because right now you could certainly you know you know you can do stuff with [TS]

  the echo and I know that the people who are the bigger fans of it have stuff [TS]

  like that I know marcos got hooked up to some light bulbs and stuff like that i [TS]

  do i use the echo from my office lights [TS]

  I've got it so I mean this is one of those like this is not a terribly [TS]

  complex thing to set up i have the and so here's a real it's real simple [TS]

  example I have a motion sensor in my office that you know basically connected [TS]

  by Wi-Fi and then i have to is Wemo wmo is the company [TS]

  they have to Wemo plugs they're just simple 0 or 1 dislike is either on or [TS]

  off [TS]

  I don't need to switch only use the Wemo could not do this at home does my [TS]

  daughter does not want to have to use an iphone to turn lights on and off that's [TS]

  not gonna happen but in my case I walk into my office the motion sensor turns [TS]

  the lights on [TS]

  I can also say yo dingus to my deck so your dingus turn my office lights off [TS]

  and I've set up a thing where it knows office lights means these two wheel [TS]

  lights further i have an ifttt set up such that when I'm away from my office [TS]

  or move out of the radius of my office or 30 minutes pass without movement it [TS]

  turns the lights off so that whole thing all the set up every bit of that to set [TS]

  up what 45 minutes half hour and now I don't think about it but there's not [TS]

  that many more things like that that I have right now i can use when you say yo [TS]

  dinguses turn my lights off how long does it take for the light school um i [TS]

  would say less than two seconds when we tested it and now you don't have to test [TS]

  it I've does it feel as though as as responsive as if you like had like an [TS]

  intern and that part of part of the interns job was to be ready to turn the [TS]

  lights off at a moment's notice may not necessarily not necessarily standing [TS]

  around with it with their heads [TS]

  around with it with their heads [TS]

  and on this which part you know like like like the trigger finger not like [TS]

  that but just like hey you just hang out in the office and have a you know have a [TS]

  button nearby and if you you know if i take the turn the lights off turn the [TS]

  lights off like is it about that responsive second male do it 100% [TS]

  understands me [TS]

  I mean it's very obvious one percent that's silly it i can count on one hand [TS]

  the number of times it did not understand something i spoke clearly the [TS]

  echo just gets that i would say imagine you're eight feet away from the garbage [TS]

  can you got two paper towels to throw away . that amount of time [TS]

  let me test it and just cut this out . cut the marker this alexa turn my office [TS]

  lights on on there on ready to party Alexa turn my office lights off off [TS]

  so there you go what is that about second two seconds [TS]

  yeah that sounds that you know I think that was actually you know the not quite [TS]

  instantaneous but i would say satisfyingly close [TS]

  well it's for me it's well within the range of that's fine yeah motion [TS]

  detection turns it on and see it to me turning on turning on is much more [TS]

  important and turning off turning on if I walk into the office I know with [TS]

  confidence that when I walk into the office I can either address the echo to [TS]

  turn on or I can just walk in like a gentleman [TS]

  it will see my motion and turn it on so I mean that that's that's plenty fine [TS]

  for me I don't need high-performance like d powering its underneath the [TS]

  threshold of impatience i will write that will absolutely and it's also a lot [TS]

  better than a bad day with the apple TV remote right like their eyes just were [TS]

  not responding and I don't know why [TS]

  alright means any change the subject but now but if you'd like if you're out [TS]

  there ear in I message and you're dictating a text message and instead of [TS]

  words showing up you get the spinner and it just spend and you're like that [TS]

  to do i cancel dyke is this going to take it's do i just need to wait and my [TS]

  words are gonna show up or should i cancel and try it again around you [TS]

  once you once you're even thinking about that decision you've already crossed the [TS]

  inpatient threshold because even if the world when Wi-Fi is bad you posted [TS]

  something to Twitter you think it's like fifty percent greyed out meaning it's [TS]

  still posting and you're like what world of mine right now I mean it's a posting [TS]

  is it not posting we start to feel a bit crazy that kind of feeling [TS]

  yeah I think so I'd you know and exactly what did you demo you just did live on [TS]

  the show was is exactly to me at the heart of the the praise that the alexa [TS]

  or do I guess the echo what everyone I don't know what to give credit to but [TS]

  that the Amazons dinguses is getting I'm like it i can just yell and I could say [TS]

  like how am i doing with Fitbit I could say play the latest episode of fresh air [TS]

  there's there's a menu and the one beef some people have just in passing is yeah [TS]

  I mean there's more to learn because there's more to do [TS]

  it's not as simple as just saying Syria hey do this obvious thing you've been [TS]

  doing for five years [TS]

  like with the echo there's it does enough stuff that you have to do a [TS]

  little bit of command line with it right you got a little bit of bosch like [TS]

  address the right thing but it's it's shockingly good hearing that even kind [TS]

  of far away in the house and come forever yelling at my phone across the [TS]

  room to set a timer and have I'm not only to pitch I'm just saying that like [TS]

  there's benefits to all these things and you know the echo is the one that got [TS]

  traction surprised everybody everybody's like all this crazy thing is crazy [TS]

  feature to the lady in the tube who's gonna buy this [TS]

  well people did and they loved it in Ione to now and i don't consider it [TS]

  essential but i consider it in the aggregate more useful than my Apple [TS]

  watch and I think it has a brighter future [TS]

  alright let's keep going on this but first I want to thank our second sponsor [TS]

  of the day and it's are our good friends at mat.com again again again get [TS]

  you thought I you know they're the daily deal site you go there you get a daily [TS]

  deal the daily deal today then again this is too late for you its already not [TS]

  only is the show going to be out you know today later two days later but just [TS]

  as an example of how good this is this this this is a FoodSaver vacuum sealing [TS]

  system it is refurbished but that's you know it's still that segment you get for [TS]

  22 bucks they even tell you what it costs $MONEY at amazon it costs a [TS]

  hundred and two bucks at amazon so that's it you know 5x higher almost you [TS]

  know crazy it's some of the deals they have it really does make me wonder [TS]

  whether they're getting stuff off the back of the truck like Ellis it's what I [TS]

  do we as this stuff is so delightfully weird they are that such a strange [TS]

  company and they've sponsored back to work not too long ago and they're [TS]

  special the day the day we did it was to folding knives like to switch blade ii [TS]

  like pocket knives and I just think you should get a nice technique with tuna [TS]

  right or you get if they if you're going into if you're going into a bar and they [TS]

  have the bouncer take your one knife you still got a backup nah you didn't check [TS]

  the sock sucker but they've got other stuff to think i told you that the just [TS]

  there right up to the daily deals are worth reading [TS]

  they've got these videos but they've also got this these community forums and [TS]

  it's you know you type in it for me stuff but on these forums they're doing [TS]

  interesting stuff like commissioning articles from real writers so they [TS]

  commissioned friend of the show sometimes guest on the show Glenn [TS]

  fleischmann to do it a two-part history of all caps being interpreted as [TS]

  shouting in written language [TS]

  they've got also sorts of great stuff like that actual content like you could [TS]

  go to medcom on a regular basis and never want by the daily deal and it just [TS]

  it's just a site where you go to read cool stuff so Glenn placements articles [TS]

  on the all caps is it's almost like clickbait for me because i love you know [TS]

  that type of analysis of how you read in your head and it goes back to like the [TS]

  eighteen-hundreds it's crazy done all this research to go to medicom check out [TS]

  the forums [TS]

  and check out their daily deals [TS]

  it's not what you think what you think that do you think the third sponsors [TS]

  gonna be you guys no fracture not something that won't spoil all right I'm [TS]

  you think it's a problem so you hinted at this and in some ways this this voice [TS]

  assistant space is almost the it's almost the the conceptual opposite of [TS]

  iOS insofar as most of iOS and certainly iOS starting in 2007-2008 in the early [TS]

  years was entirely visual and it anything you could do was represented on [TS]

  screen by some sort of physical visual object and to me it's actually and Oh [TS]

  overlooked aspect of the genius of iOS is design that they they didn't go with [TS]

  some sort of like what are our fabulous new phone user interface going to be [TS]

  like and they didn't try to do something that makes regular people say wow this [TS]

  is so conceptually clever and said they did like the most obvious thing possible [TS]

  which was like hey just like the old palm pilots or you know there's a bunch [TS]

  of apps tap on the app and it launches the app and when the app is launched it [TS]

  takes over the screen and here's one button on the front face that you go [TS]

  back to the home screen so here's a bunch of apps tap one to go in the app [TS]

  and when you're in an app tap this button and you go back to the home [TS]

  screen and once you're in a nap [TS]

  anything you can do in the app is something you can see on the rectangle [TS]

  of pixels that are lit up and since then they've added some shortcuts that you [TS]

  kind of have to know about like when you slide in from the side or slide down [TS]

  from the top to get the notification center or up from the bottom to get the [TS]

  control center but those are things that if you don't know about used there's [TS]

  still a way to do it visually right everything you can do if you're a more [TS]

  simple user of iOS and you don't even know about [TS]

  Control Center anything you can do there you can just go to the home screen go to [TS]

  settings and just read that list and you'll find it unsettling now setting [TS]

  but also to your point though settings has gotten so long and so complex i [TS]

  wonder how many people have realized that there's no a search field inside of [TS]

  settings i don't know how many people but they should it's very simple it's [TS]

  staggering how much stuff is in settings and rather than having to go drill down [TS]

  its now it is so much stuff in there that it's actually way faster to do a [TS]

  search right but it's almost like the difference between a you know a visual [TS]

  video game like you know super mario brothers where you could see where Mario [TS]

  can go because you're watching Mario move around the screen versus the [TS]

  old-school text games like zork or whatever where you just have to start [TS]

  typing stuff and guess like it's easier to explore I think for most people [TS]

  visually then it is to explore verbally and it's so much easier to see what an [TS]

  iphone can do because of effectively for the most part it's you go to the home [TS]

  screen and look at the apps and here's what your iphone can do it [TS]

  these apps and you know the ones that come from Apple are fairly obvious and [TS]

  any other ones or ones that you you chose to install so you should you know [TS]

  have a basic idea of what what they do [TS]

  whereas serie it's like what what are the what's the total list of things you [TS]

  can do a siri-like i have never found a comprehensive list that wasn't [TS]

  somebody's guess on a blog post i said i have never seen a full list of [TS]

  everything so you can do the closest thing I've seen is like this is a blog [TS]

  post people have done and basically that marketing page where you can scroll [TS]

  really far down and see lots of suggestions but it's surprisingly under [TS]

  documented so you're up then you're right how do you learn [TS]

  I mean think about how many people you have to say like hey if you want to play [TS]

  with Siri go to Syria and hit that little ? and they're like what ? I'm [TS]

  like oh man hit that ? is that is in the lower left i believe and that's gonna [TS]

  tell you so much stuff you had no idea you could say to siri it's not learnable [TS]

  like you're saying it isn't like you can just look at the pretty glass screen and [TS]

  under [TS]

  doing what you're supposed to do either need to get educated or you need to [TS]

  explore you need to try and that's not intuitively obvious so that to me that [TS]

  the the not the canonical example i'm trying to see the epitome of where this [TS]

  is going the the ideal of where these voice driven assistants are going is [TS]

  exemplified by Hal 9000 in 2001 where the you watch these characters interact [TS]

  with Hal and II you never at you would be sure it would be shocking if they [TS]

  said something to him and how was like I'm sorry I didn't understand the [TS]

  question [TS]

  you know it's like you just know that house going to get it and if they said [TS]

  something Jimmy did you mean white the color or white the race [TS]

  what a weird question how of course you would know that right now just is not [TS]

  only that but how also as i was pulling up last night and reading stuff you're [TS]

  suggesting if you notice how ends up sounding like the calmest and most human [TS]

  person in the movie something yeah definitely [TS]

  well that was probably never thought of it that way but it's true that was [TS]

  Pauline Kael as criticism when I'm one of her criticisms of the film we got one [TS]

  character [TS]

  well that the most interesting characters the computer and its cycle so [TS]

  what isn't that actually kind of fascinating that that somebody can make [TS]

  a movie where the most interesting characters is the computer like how is [TS]

  that how is that a failure but if there is if the characters in the movie had [TS]

  said how can dim the lights [TS]

  you know that the lights with them there's not a hundred percent chance you [TS]

  know and you know that how could do that like anything on that ship [TS]

  you know that how could do you know and everything that they get it it's big [TS]

  the ideal is obviously something that's so aware that it can control everything [TS]

  like it's $YEAR and we're obviously not there yet but you know we're getting [TS]

  there you're already you're already turning your lights out with it but it's [TS]

  like you know you know you probably can't turn your microwave on with Alexa [TS]

  you got me thinking that you're bringing up a really good point we talk about [TS]

  what they came out of the box with in 2007 like what was it that was in [TS]

  retrospect as we look back what are the things that we really remember as as [TS]

  seeing revolutionary I think I I feel like for myself the most amazing what [TS]

  trick [TS]

  Steve and team pulled off was calling this thing of phone so the first amazing [TS]

  part is that they were to put out this they would prompt this thing that I mean [TS]

  yeah it's phone but I mean there's a lot of other things i would want to call it [TS]

  before i called it a phone it is to use his third the third piece it's an [TS]

  Internet communicator that's what made the thing really great but who's going [TS]

  to go out and buy internet communicator i think that for myself that's one [TS]

  amazing part is that they put a computer in your pocket and it did actually work [TS]

  the other amazing thing in retrospect maybe one of the things that is the most [TS]

  revolutionary and influential was that it's just a big piece of glass on front [TS]

  right there's no there's no there's one dedicated button that does stuff but [TS]

  there's only limited things the apps can do to write the remember these are the [TS]

  days when you run a one-at-a-time what you can do it sounds very limited what [TS]

  you could do with having you know you're only you couldn't copy and paste it's [TS]

  one appetizer and set about what did that do that worked to the advantage of [TS]

  both the strengths and weaknesses of the phone could only do so much [TS]

  but what you could do is very easy to understand because it was in this [TS]

  paradigm that you're familiar with if you've ever used a windows like a GUI [TS]

  system this is not going to seem crazy it's just that there's no mouse your [TS]

  finger is the mouse so right but the thing is so but now where are we where [TS]

  are we now like you say well now you can get the stuff by pulling down you can [TS]

  get the stuff by pulling up if you're on a recent phone like if you're on a [TS]

  sixth-generation phone pressing hard on i wonder how many people know this [TS]

  pressing hard on the left side of the screen will be a little bloop and you go [TS]

  to the previous app you can be one of the six people who is using the 3d touch [TS]

  but so and on top of that look think about the haptics and tactics on the [TS]

  phone and on the watch [TS]

  there are now so many more ways to communicate and communication is not [TS]

  just talking communication is also listening and hearing so our ability i [TS]

  mean for example something i don't know how many people use this on iOS but you [TS]

  can go into accessible [TS]

  woody and flip on the LED the LED will blink when you get an alert so I have [TS]

  that turned on so if i'm not paying attention i can see across the room and [TS]

  there's like a flash so there's all these ways that you can talk to the [TS]

  phone the phone can talk to you but we're still I mean but we still haven't [TS]

  really thought the whole paradigm of how we interact with the phone but finding [TS]

  new ways to expand with this thing to do [TS]

  make it faster touch ID think about touch ID right but I mean there hasn't [TS]

  been there hasn't been a need to completely rethink the phone because [TS]

  these are all improvements on the product we had in 2007 but now if we [TS]

  like I don't make sure this is where you're going but I mean that one know [TS]

  where you're going [TS]

  wow I mean now that you can do voice like how does that change the way you [TS]

  think about this little glass internet communicator you know it is it [TS]

  well-suited to doing these kinds of things and what would need to change [TS]

  about the basic technology and the policies of the company to make this [TS]

  into something more than just another another way to interact with the phone I [TS]

  don't know I I still want to know like like where where do we draw the line [TS]

  between having every single device that we get from Apple understand your dingus [TS]

  right right now I've got my watch doing it I've got my phone doing it my ipad [TS]

  does it my Mac doesn't but there's three devices that do and now there's a room [TS]

  ready also have an apple TV right and and now they're supposedly building a [TS]

  new device that does it well then one nice when I address [TS]

  serie with your dingus what how many things turn on at once I mean right now [TS]

  it's not very smart at all like if my ipad is it within your same your shot is [TS]

  the phone they both come on well I'm happy to take out my managers think [TS]

  about my messages like you know they seem to have gotten better at that but [TS]

  you know you don't want every single device in the world going off if it has [TS]

  a way to determine where you quote unquote are right now that's where you [TS]

  prefer to hear about i still miss things because it went to the watch and I [TS]

  didn't realize it so it is trying to be smart with that but to have a sense of [TS]

  place about what you're doing and like i said in this is notes here that context [TS]

  or it's like when it's most appropriate to do a certain kind of thing [TS]

  because you know what do we have to choose one tool that are we allowed to [TS]

  have like spoons and knives in our house is likely you you might want all these [TS]

  things but you do need a little help from the devices to be contextually [TS]

  intelligent about what you need to know when stuff is likely to be useful and [TS]

  where it is extremely cumbersome and inappropriate [TS]

  do you remember like this is way back this is like going back to like [TS]

  1998-1999 and on the great but with one of the best websites at that time was [TS]

  mackin touch it still around but I don't think it's that rig floor [TS]

  yeah Rick Ford was a great and every I remember that there is a recurring like [TS]

  the way that he would do it somebody would send something in it would become [TS]

  a story and then a couple more people would email and then he would add to the [TS]

  page with more people's comments but it wasn't open it was curated by Rick Ford [TS]

  and you'd end up with this great discussion i remember one of the big [TS]

  controversies was when some mac apps started phoning home on the network [TS]

  which more or less just to check for a new version like they would like maybe [TS]

  like once a week some you know little indie app would would connect to its you [TS]

  know parent companies . calm and just say hey I'm version 3.7 is there a new [TS]

  version and then if there is like a 3.8 is out it could let you know that [TS]

  there's a new version and people were you know we're using certain like [TS]

  utilities that would notify them like people super hyper privacy minded people [TS]

  who use utilities like a like on Mac os10 you would be like Little Snitch i [TS]

  think over things like this is this is a concern though if you're stealing your [TS]

  copy of cork which I heard some people used to do because it would be able to [TS]

  run out across the network and see which other serial numbers like the things [TS]

  along as lines where you would you would actually be able to get another liquor [TS]

  shareware running that would prevent those things from talking to each other [TS]

  yeah what it would do it yeah the the one of the the anti-piracy or anti you [TS]

  know using a license on too many machines mechanisms I know Kourt did it [TS]

  I think adobe my I know for sure to work did it you know where they would look [TS]

  across the local network and maybe was the whole internet was it the whole [TS]

  internet [TS]

  I don't know is that i think for our cases are appletalk network [TS]

  yeah and it was enough to do it was enough to make an important they would [TS]

  look across the local talk network and if it's all the same serial number was [TS]

  already running it would refuse to run on the second machine and people were [TS]

  you know we're very upset about it because it was like what right does this [TS]

  app have to do anything on the network without me and I remember nodding my [TS]

  head and it wasn't like thinking like yeah you know outrage i was just [TS]

  thinking yeah this is a little creepy i wonder where this is going [TS]

  and to think about like how much like how antiquated that is like privacy [TS]

  why's that i'm thinking i was what made me think about this was that i'm [TS]

  thinking i wouldn't mind if my imac always had the camera on to look to see [TS]

  if i'm sitting in front of it so that it would as soon as I get it from my chair [TS]

  would know to send the I message that I'm conversation I'm having with [TS]

  maryland right to my phone right like how does my imac know if I'm sitting in [TS]

  front of it like right now it doesn't really it just like kind of keeps track [TS]

  of i guess like Mouse action or keyboard action or something like that [TS]

  nothing i will not either either totally innocuous are really scary depending on [TS]

  what you think of as being watched because what about motion sensors in [TS]

  your home is that creep you out [TS]

  well no we just I you know what I mean like it depends on what you wanted to do [TS]

  but this is 0 or 1 feeling there because if there's a camera we assume that it's [TS]

  always recording us and sending it somewhere to do something it's not [TS]

  simply a sensor right we assume immediately that it's going to be taking [TS]

  our stuff and throwing it up on the internet somewhere just it we've just [TS]

  come so far in terms of where we draw the season it's ludicrous prostrate [TS]

  actually i was told my daughter I give my daughter a bath last night and boring [TS]

  her to tears telling her about how schools going to talk to you about today [TS]

  and I was asking her about what she thought about the distinction between [TS]

  listening and hearing and and she she was saying she thinks we're disagreeing [TS]

  a little bit on the distinction but I think to appreciate what we're talking [TS]

  about with this stuff you must see a distinction or should see a distinction [TS]

  between listening and hearing so if you don't believe the companies that say [TS]

  they're not actually setting on your stuff the NSA will definitely don't have [TS]

  these devices if you're considering that though I think it's worth considering [TS]

  the difference being listening and hearing it's one thing to listen right [TS]

  so listening means [TS]

  that it's basically listening for the trigger words but then after the trigger [TS]

  words is when it's really hearing and I feel like that's that's a young [TS]

  distinction that we need to start thinking about for all kinds of reasons [TS]

  including privacy right did you follow what I'm saying though no I do like in [TS]

  your case you want you want a camera that's that is monitoring even if it's [TS]

  not recording that there's there's we should start to see some kind of a [TS]

  distinction certainly again I think you always have to say that yes I don't want [TS]

  people spotting us but like what are we willing to throw out for that notion of [TS]

  privacy that we may or may not have any way in this instance I just I think that [TS]

  a lot of people shut that door really fast without looking too much further [TS]

  beyond what they imagine is the worst-case scenario would you be okay [TS]

  with your with your Mac using the camera to see if you're if you're in front of [TS]

  it [TS]

  god no now even if they you see me see what it looks like right now [TS]

  well then I don't know and I feel like you could you know outsiders could [TS]

  independently verified by looking at network traffic that the video isn't [TS]

  being sent anywhere [TS]

  no I see what you're saying but like for example like we've got a couple [TS]

  different cameras at the house when we got a nest cam that watches the door and [TS]

  we've got a canary in the canary is a camera with a super get da familiar with [TS]

  canary know there is pretty cool scary . is so it's a device that and it's not [TS]

  too different looking from amazon echo little shorter a little fatter you [TS]

  basically plug that in and it has a very wide fisheye lens that will cover not a [TS]

  hundred eighty degrees but a pretty wide spectrum and but the nice thing about it [TS]

  it has a very sane mode series of modes so there's armed which means that nobody [TS]

  is in the house and you know go ahead and record you know whatever whatever [TS]

  you're seeing with the camera if it notices that you're at home you can set [TS]

  it so that it either keeps running and dozen isn't sending you notices or you [TS]

  can say shot off so my case [TS]

  if the iphone detects that anybody is at home and you know that people should be [TS]

  there it just shuts it off altogether so like you know i mean is that perfect no [TS]

  but like that works pretty well so if we're out of town and we see something [TS]

  moving around it's not a back at our house cleaner you can have that thing [TS]

  you know she's off the siren you can hit the police number from it whatever I [TS]

  mainly want to just be able to see what you know nothing's on fire you know the [TS]

  feeling that i would like that i will put i will put the the link in the show [TS]

  notes I've already written it down it looks like a great product it does [TS]

  everybody on I know exactly what you mean i get paranoid and we're away from [TS]

  home that [TS]

  yeah that you know how do i know that the house is hasn't burned down [TS]

  how do I know that who would know to class effect you know how do I know that [TS]

  squatters haven't broken in and just sort of setup setup home is nobody draw [TS]

  a penis on your garage to write exactly the last trust me I know from firsthand [TS]

  experience you've got his of that as soon as possible before the ink dries [TS]

  oh sorry I took your topic well no no but the rumor about this upcoming apple [TS]

  thing is that i'll put a link to the show notes on that but did you see this [TS]

  that after the initial report came out there's a report that the thing that [TS]

  Apple's doing does include a camera probably similar to the canary like a [TS]

  wide angle fisheye camera and that it will attempt to recognize the people [TS]

  talking to it [TS]

  yeah and again I I don't want to be glib about it i know i'm a Kubrick you know [TS]

  fanatic but I you know it's the concept of how you know and one of the things [TS]

  that makes 2001 such a great movie is this the scientific rigor you know it [TS]

  really was an honest attempt and I obviously it was very optimistic about [TS]

  the write-up about all of it you know there's there is no hilton are orbiting [TS]

  the Earth panam doesn't have flights to the moon we don't have a rocket ship [TS]

  that could take astronauts to Jupiter and more dogs had stewardess is in [TS]

  velcro shoes now and we don't have a way I at the level of how [TS]

  so it was optimistic year wise but you know it attempted to be you know as [TS]

  rigorous as they could and including talking to top artificial intelligence [TS]

  you know experts of the era as to you know what do you think would be possible [TS]

  how could this work and it's you know conceptually it that's where we're [TS]

  heading right but we would have wide angle i mean even that won't even down [TS]

  to using a wide angle lens to get a big field of view into the it into the way I [TS]

  dingus right when they show you how this point of view it's like a superfish I [TS]

  but the idea that you think you're talking to an end again it's like this [TS]

  mixture of yes I've always wanted to have like how 9000 and then the [TS]

  conversely the I don't know if I want you know i don't want people you know AI [TS]

  systems watching me you know i mean like a mixture of like dread and desire but i [TS]

  think it is clearly where we're heading [TS]

  and the idea that it would help you know like help create a shared device because [TS]

  I guess one of the limits of like the echo right now that it it's like two [TS]

  people in the same house can't really set it up with what's on my calendar [TS]

  oh true yeah sure you can have multiple echoes and that's actually it's kinda [TS]

  cool but yeah you're right and I mean also you know there's a there's a [TS]

  something that's gotta get dealt with that some point soon is i guess i mean [TS]

  it's understandable to say well you know right now we're gonna get the technology [TS]

  down so anybody who talks to it correctly can make this work [TS]

  I mean you know for example my echo has access to my calendar it is my calendar [TS]

  anybody who came in and asked it could get my calendar info that doesn't mean [TS]

  currently there's not a way i know for echo to be disabled when I personally am [TS]

  not there is probable kind of creepy stuff you can do but you know and you [TS]

  can buy stuff like so like if I come over to your house and you you know head [TS]

  to the restroom I could quick order up just a reorder reorder dildos and the [TS]

  baby on your door the next day [TS]

  it's really true i basically just say to your dingus you just say like reorder [TS]

  contractor bags and say okay on the state you ordered that that's it's like [TS]

  Syracuse is concerned about the Amazon buttons that is key kids which my [TS]

  daughter has totally dunno look at some more seventh generation to church [TS]

  it's see I don't know this is I guess this is the part people always want to [TS]

  talk about this is the part that you always jump directly to I think it's [TS]

  unavoidable but i think it's all so complicated which is when you get into [TS]

  like you know what should just do just because we can do it should we do it [TS]

  well I think this is where stuff is going so it's it does not benefit us to [TS]

  keep talking about how this time we're never gonna use this benefits the talk [TS]

  about what we actually are talking about when we talk about this stuff [TS]

  what were willing to tolerate i think i would have the same conversation about [TS]

  this we have to stop acting like it's a Frankenstein monster and try to have [TS]

  liked more reasoned discussion about you know what this stuff is what this stuff [TS]

  does and and once you get used to a creature comfort you [TS]

  it's it's like psychologically impossible to go back and just think [TS]

  about like cars and the way that cars have improved since we were kids just [TS]

  creep creature comfort wise right like when we were kids if you wanted to move [TS]

  the seat back or front you had to sit there and hold a physical liver and then [TS]

  slide it using your muscles and now I mean our cars 10 years old but we have a [TS]

  thing where when I you know . the electronic key fobs if i unlock the door [TS]

  the seat automatically starts moving to my preferred location and if Amy's the [TS]

  one who unlocks the door the seat moves to her preferred location it's amazing [TS]

  but you really shouldn't be driving right unless your license I well Anna [TS]

  Anna well and I wear flip-flops everywhere you know about topic [TS]

  yes this is that is so crazy to me but the topic of prospectus and seems to [TS]

  come up every time we talk [TS]

  atms we are atms but you know what it what a terrific example 1977-78 guess [TS]

  what there's this new scary robot at the mall that will give you money [TS]

  wait a minute you're saying anybody can walk up to this machine law [TS]

  access to my bank account no no you gotta have your little card and you got [TS]

  a four digit code [TS]

  okay just let me understand this you know I'm a Rockefeller and I have access [TS]

  to all this money so basically anybody who has this four-digit code can just [TS]

  clean me out because and that's really what everybody said into the eighties [TS]

  ok so i'ma try to say this is a perfect system but what I'm saying is that in [TS]

  the amount of time that a team has been around there's some things we most all [TS]

  of us kind of know at this point instead it's always gonna be stuff like skimmers [TS]

  like you know Greek ribs on security have just ruined your month but there [TS]

  are things we know we know first of all that there are limitations on the [TS]

  account if they do quick and clean you out there not gonna get more than [TS]

  probably 400 or 500 dollars out of your account and you know what if it was if [TS]

  it was fraudulent there's a pretty good chance you can go to your bank they're [TS]

  going to cover most of the cost of that you know quite average my dad I don't [TS]

  think has an ATM card I said all I i still think that maybe they've sent him [TS]

  one and then he did without even asking and he just cuts it up haha um wraps my [TS]

  dad's oil burns at my dad my dad at least in you know at least through the [TS]

  high school when i lived at home anytime my dad wanted to get cash he would go to [TS]

  the bank and go to the waiting line and go to the teller and and bring the last [TS]

  problem right and and get cash and he would just get enough cash at the time [TS]

  we wouldn't have to go back frequently i hate accidentally falling into the role [TS]

  of arms your futures because it's such a douchey thing that to be but like here's [TS]

  what i'm trying to say like you know I have a pretty good feeling this is an [TS]

  overarching thing for me as i try to grow as a person is to stop making these [TS]

  instant decisions based on emotions about whether something will be terrible [TS]

  and ruin everything which feels like something a lot of folks do it soon as [TS]

  it distresses we're black and white thinking thing where soon as somebody [TS]

  gets the slightest whiff of something they don't like it's the worst thing [TS]

  ever and it's a literal Holocaust trying to avoid doing that so when I say this [TS]

  example something like an ATM what I'm really trying to say is that like well [TS]

  there's a certain amount of risk associated with that there will always [TS]

  be a certain amount of risk we're still driving cars [TS]

  I can go a hundred miles an hour is an acceptable amount of risk with that you [TS]

  don't find that risk it all when a bus goes by your kid while you're while [TS]

  you're walking down the street but like all these things find their level in [TS]

  some way not for all time [TS]

  pendulum swing Hakuna Matata and like but the thing is we figured out a way [TS]

  for atms to be part of our life in a way that didn't ruin everybody in America [TS]

  and so I think instead of thinking about this as like some kind of new dioxin [TS]

  it's going to kill the environment [TS]

  let's think about things like a nes things like vr the silly things like [TS]

  that [TS]

  let's instead ask ourselves like how that could find a place if we stop [TS]

  looking at it as this thing we think we understand today start looking at the [TS]

  components of this that's something we might see in our lives and stop being so [TS]

  wowed by it and all the times user counter wowed by it [TS]

  somebody else is running away with the legislation on what actually happens [TS]

  with that stuff you got to keep your eyes open and be smart but admit that [TS]

  this is something that is the thing right there's you know that the [TS]

  self-driving cars thing is a perfect example where I i think most people are [TS]

  looking forward to it but because it is scary red letters new and its seemingly [TS]

  involves you know robots doing things that we used to do [TS]

  everybody is worried I know I'm where everybody knows that eventually it's [TS]

  going to come we're going to have self-driving cars and eventually it's [TS]

  just inevitable there's going to be an accident or somebody gets killed and you [TS]

  can blame the AI and there's so many millions of people in so many cars and [TS]

  so many things it's inevitable and you know just to put up the hypothetical [TS]

  like what if the AI locks itself into a situation where it's either it can make [TS]

  a move that harms you the passenger or it kills a pedestrian and it doesn't see [TS]

  you know there's no other option that the AI ceased and the decision has to be [TS]

  made in the next hundreds of a second what happens either way it's like that [TS]

  ethical ethical problem with the train track and that kind of thing right let [TS]

  me ask yourself you know i mean i'm not a statistician but think about like if [TS]

  we took the net number of miles driven by mature automated vehicles versus the [TS]

  net number of just thoughts and allow me a strong man here the net number of [TS]

  miles driven by drunks like let's see who has a better kill ratio [TS]

  because i gotta feeling the automated car might do a little bit better i bet [TS]

  you know what turns out i bet it might even do a little bit better than all [TS]

  those people who are really good drivers especially when more and more automated [TS]

  cars can talk to each other until I need the meat bag behind the pedal to keep it [TS]

  from flying off the road right I completely agree i think it's inevitable [TS]

  that self-driving cars are going to happen relatively soon and that they [TS]

  will have wonderful safety records and that the sooner we can get all or nearly [TS]

  all card self-driven that the the difference in the number of people [TS]

  getting maimed seriously injured and killed will look back at it as when it [TS]

  will be used to let people smoke on airplanes you know like my god with what [TS]

  the hell were we thinking we let people drive a hundred miles an hour while they [TS]

  were text messaging there was not an eye on people did it I got it will look at [TS]

  me [TS]

  we got totally the problem at truck the other day like just completely cut off [TS]

  by a semi 10 minutes later we see a woman you know cruising down 80 with a [TS]

  kid in the car seat like texting and independent just you don't see too many [TS]

  of those to go like really you think it's gonna be that much worse to have an [TS]

  automated car that understands heuristics of the world [TS]

  I i totally don't but the problem is that as a society we collectively are [TS]

  very bad at accepting statistical proof and vs anecdotal proof righty to you and [TS]

  you know it's like the the Republican senator who who's who's argument against [TS]

  climate change was let me this is true story i forget the guys name but he was [TS]

  made his little speech on the Senate floor with a snowball he had just made [TS]

  outside the capital at an unseasonable time of year right [TS]

  the-the-the climate scientists just cursing he's figured this out [TS]

  he figured out the what's happening with big climate but for some people that one [TS]

  example is way more compelling than the statistical evidence of what is actually [TS]

  going on right i think it's an out you know but i think people get used to it [TS]

  with the with the self-driving cars [TS]

  like every guy i forget how much I told about this but I know I never wrote [TS]

  about it but I got this amazing demo at the Mercedes self-driving car thing in [TS]

  Silicon Valley a couple months ago and it went on a ride in an actual self [TS]

  driving a Mercedes s-class it was amazing i mean it's real it actually was [TS]

  like an entire thing like starting in somewhere in Mountain View and getting [TS]

  onto a highway and getting off and the entire thing was that no human [TS]

  intervention whatsoever [TS]

  wow really yeah people who do that all seem to say a similar thing which is [TS]

  like they're always amazed at how quickly it's it how quickly it's stop [TS]

  seeming weird like the more than sometimes it is more than a few minutes [TS]

  of that before you go like oh this totally makes sense so Mike one of my [TS]

  questions for them was do you think right now you you know [TS]

  mercedes-benz makes cars that go well in excess of any speed limit [TS]

  posted in the United States you know you wanted you know if not i would guess [TS]

  every single car they make those at least 200 miles an hour in self driving [TS]

  mode is it going to be an option to exceed the posted speed limit and the [TS]

  answer was almost certainly not that the car you know it will be programmed so [TS]

  that there is no way that you can exceed the speed limit and their take is that [TS]

  know what you couldn't sell a car like that today when people drive but they [TS]

  think that people will accept that because why do they want to go fast it's [TS]

  because they're bored they want to get to where they're going and if they can [TS]

  sit there and dick around on their phone while they're getting there you know who [TS]

  cares if it takes extra five you know who cares if it takes an extra five [TS]

  minutes to get to work because you're driving 55 instead of driving 80 you [TS]

  know maybe you're here now [TS]

  yeah but this is also this is also getting too i mean you know it's [TS]

  whenever we try to think about changing try to get the future we we tend I feel [TS]

  like at least I tend to focus on maybe two axes but usually one axis like the [TS]

  thing that I'm familiar with the thing that I'm obsessed with the thing that I [TS]

  think about but that's the difficulty if they could about anything more than a [TS]

  year out of the future and the future is like how all ideas Germany you know how [TS]

  will things suddenly get cheaper and more pasta how do things suddenly become [TS]

  less impossible and it's it's difficult to imagine how those kinds of things are [TS]

  going to work you know and we all have our own like biases about we know you [TS]

  know how we would how we would want to work and what we would accept in terms [TS]

  of risk and I i don't know i don't know let me take a break and thank our third [TS]

  sponsored your guess who's rose at third bunch of sweet on third sponsor this [TS]

  week is the good folks at math . com honestly fuck these guys for making me [TS]

  think of a third thing to say about them i mean god bless him for buying out the [TS]

  entire show [TS]

  they really did they bought all three they paid rack rate for all three spots [TS]

  and God bless them for that I do love the sponsors but I gotta tell you [TS]

  there's not that much say about him their daily deal site and they've got [TS]

  some really cool videos and they write really clever copy and they've got some [TS]

  forums where there's really cool stuff going on but other than that [TS]

  fuck them go to med calm and check them out [TS]

  welcome anything else you want to [TS]

  about this AI stuff i think we covered a lot of it anything else i know you had [TS]

  good notes [TS]

  you did a lot more research you did good work man fuck this guest on Dino [TS]

  beatdown [TS]

  let me ask you this I don't think hammer thing I want to stay on the camera thing [TS]

  for a second because i think i think that i don't think that it's going to [TS]

  mean the rumors that apple is working on a product now I think it's imminent I [TS]

  mean you've got this canary thing in your house i think i think the cameras [TS]

  are the next step I really do believe you say the people who say why would I [TS]

  need a device if I've got you know the Apple faithful God love them who say why [TS]

  would I ever want a device for these things if I have my watch and my phone I [TS]

  can almost promise you as much as I love you all that you haven't actually tried [TS]

  using a device for this stuff because you will use it differently [TS]

  it's funny it's ironic to me that the same people who are so in love with [TS]

  their iphone that they learn to love don't understand that there's a similar [TS]

  pattern with trying a device for a while and seeing how you would use it in a [TS]

  different context and if you do use it route pretty you might use it pretty [TS]

  differently i could see that becoming a hub for the home and a lot of ways [TS]

  always already amazon device that's made by a third party that you can put on [TS]

  your refrigerator and treat that way but you know but you know and did the [TS]

  questions going to see that will come back to the always like you know well [TS]

  how are kids going to use this that's the thing nobody cares why we use it we [TS]

  we've aged out of the demo nobody cares [TS]

  I don't want to keep banging the how 9000 hammer but i still think that [TS]

  conceptually it's correct that how was everywhere on the ship and was built [TS]

  into the ship and he wasn't he wasn't like a thing that they talk to on her [TS]

  wrist [TS]

  I'm not saying that talking to the thing on your wrist isn't a thing but i'm [TS]

  saying that the better way to go is to have have a ubiquitous presence built in [TS]

  to the ship uh the star trek is the same way right the next generation enterprise [TS]

  computer best name for one of these things ever [TS]

  I was the same way that the computer was just an ever-present presence built into [TS]

  the ship I will yes totally and I mean and like think I'm just think about [TS]

  stuff like water water used to be a thing that you went down to the creek [TS]

  and he filled filled the jugs or a bucket and you brought it back and that [TS]

  was the water but now water comes out a little dinguses all throughout your [TS]

  house time was air conditioning was a thing you bought down at the Montgomery [TS]

  Ward you stuck in your window and now magically air-conditioning comes out of [TS]

  all these events throughout your house you can have smart vents as I've seen on [TS]

  shark tank that you can adjust how much your condition is going to into your [TS]

  room anytime so our first example of how we would use this how a 9000 like [TS]

  devices [TS]

  I talking to my watch to see what the weather is even though i could probably [TS]

  just as easily go see but like think about more than what happens when the [TS]

  devices that you use it is i think of it almost like a client-server relationship [TS]

  what if it gets to where you pick up six or eight or 12 packs of these dinguses [TS]

  that you could magnet or stick to the wall in the shower they're waterproof [TS]

  they could go in the car they go in the garage then go anywhere [TS]

  what if it becomes just another the same way that you want to extend your Wi-Fi [TS]

  network just wanna extend the ability to say stuff into the air and have it do [TS]

  things that gets us away from this idea of having this weird two-hundred-dollar [TS]

  thing you put in your house like I would think more in that direction then [TS]

  thinking of talking to your watching asking for the weather and eventually it [TS]

  gets smart enough and contextual enough it will learn to as i said the thing i'm [TS]

  always looking for us learn to tell me about things I didn't know I needed to [TS]

  know before I realize I need to know it that's the real brilliance is when the [TS]

  real machine learning start to see patterns that I didn't [TS]

  it's just telling me about important things not just things i know i need to [TS]

  know tell me the things that are important that i don't know that i need [TS]

  to know and that's where ubiquity comes into it and context tell me when this is [TS]

  useful [TS]

  I don't be yelling at me and blinking lights all the time learn what's [TS]

  important to me and help me have the life I want to have humans are naturally [TS]

  really really good at pattern certain pattern recognitions like identifying a [TS]

  familiar face or even like a face that you've only met once you know but you [TS]

  know you know or [TS]

  like a parody Leah's i was called we just like you look at a street curb and [TS]

  you see a face because you're wired to see faces and yes you are yeah or like [TS]

  the rock up in New Hampshire the the old man on the mountain but yeah it is you [TS]

  know what I mean mom [TS]

  yeah we're actually we're so wired to recognize faces that we see faces where [TS]

  there aren't faces or try to turn right [TS]

  ah and voices too but even as humans for it at 18 is it just an obvious example I [TS]

  once I hit puberty every time I answered the phone anybody who is calling from my [TS]

  dad would think that I was my dad and just start talking to him like like I [TS]

  was him because I sounded I don't think I sound that much like them to be honest [TS]

  but I sound enough like him that over and with the distortion of a you know [TS]

  landline phone it sounded enough so if a human being could confuse me with my dad [TS]

  I think that it's reasonable that even a very gud Ecco like device might confuse [TS]

  me and my dad and so I think that the do you know adding additional sensors at [TS]

  obviously a camera to know who the heck is talking to the right time right is [TS]

  almost necessary like I maybe i'm just talking myself in a corner and it will [TS]

  just get everybody's gonna have these camera like devices in our house within [TS]

  the next day I don't think you are [TS]

  I mean think about the way triangulation works were like you could I guess if you [TS]

  wanted to you can put your entire R&D budget into creating the world's [TS]

  greatest single antenna for discovering where something is located but isn't it [TS]

  fair to say that it's better to have hundreds or thousands of much less cost [TS]

  antennas to talk to each other that can translate and say well you're like [TS]

  there's a pretty good chance that you're here based on the signal strength of [TS]

  these different things that's I think that's kind of what we're talking about [TS]

  right i mean so in this case like there are there are existing technologies that [TS]

  make this easy and useful already so if this iphone app detects that I'm in the [TS]

  house cause a certain set of things to happen if it's a certain time of day [TS]

  then that's a factor right you think about i'm here but my kids not here that [TS]

  can cause things to happen knowing what the weather is or what the weather is [TS]

  becoming these are all like very know [TS]

  little things right now it's just that you cannot accomplish that easily with [TS]

  just something like if this then that it's a very it's a great app a very [TS]

  service but very dull weapon but what about these multivariate things where if [TS]

  certain kinds of conditions are met over a certain period of time [TS]

  let me know to do these things just even something as simple as what were [TS]

  describing when my iphone is in the house lots of things should be different [TS]

  right [TS]

  that's pretty easily yeah and it's I know siracusa covered this recently on [TS]

  ATP about like how we almost feels bad for his kids that they're not gonna they [TS]

  can get away with like putting your bike up against every of the camera looking [TS]

  out right but like--imagine like I'm not even at home but we've got a rule that [TS]

  there's no video games before dinner like good you know right now Jonas is on [TS]

  a let's just say no video games and I could say where's Jonas and I could be [TS]

  told Jonas is playing playstation 4 and you're living right right i mean that is [TS]

  that is it was science fiction when we were you know even if nothing about that [TS]

  that is unknowable you're talking about it [TS]

  connecting to pre-existing streams it's just the connections not their [TS]

  connection could be there right [TS]

  the face recognition is there the the wifis there [TS]

  The Voice driven stuff is there i mean that's a problem could be solved today I [TS]

  mean here's here's another one that's such a brilliant little thing that it [TS]

  I don't get that many phone calls so I'm grateful I don't need this that much but [TS]

  if you got the thing yet [TS]

  I'd love to just in nine but you wear your phone says you're getting a call [TS]

  from this number which appears to be this person [TS]

  so what's that doing it's going to looking through your old emails and [TS]

  recognizing that this phone number has been mentioned by this person before [TS]

  that's what we're talking about we're not talking about rocket science [TS]

  we're talking about like the most basic kinds of inference like one little step [TS]

  at a time you know what I mean just build up this little case with with [TS]

  these little bits of information i completely agree i can talk about that [TS]

  all day [TS]

  anything else you wanna talk about on this front [TS]

  now I don't think so you know it's just it's the ongoing obsession of mine were [TS]

  like I really have noticed myself running mind being across the old man is [TS]

  a lot about that's very comforting [TS]

  there's a lot of things I can dismiss and not feel bad about it but I i am [TS]

  trying to really just keep my mind open about continuing to understand new stuff [TS]

  on its own terms rather than like what I need are expected to be so that's why [TS]

  these topics end up really hitting me [TS]

  I I feel like that that is my perspective exactly i'm absolutely [TS]

  rocketing towards crotchety old man but I'm like an open-minded crotchety old [TS]

  man that's cut it's the best I think it's the best that we get off my lawn [TS]

  whenever it suits you i don't i don't know why but it's been on my mind this [TS]

  weekend I'm obsessed with this that I tried I ended my XOXO talk two years ago [TS]

  but by referencing the song but I for some reason I've had it it's like the [TS]

  song has been popped in my head is kenny rogers the gambler which is sort of like [TS]

  this this jokey upbeat you know like you know it was just a funny little folksy [TS]

  story about a lot of wisdom in that song lot of wisdom and accept that the song [TS]

  ends in the date goes back to the refrain afterwards but the last actual [TS]

  lyrics before comes back to the refrain in his final words every hand that I [TS]

  winner every hands a winner and every every hand to win every hand a loser and [TS]

  the best that you can hope for is to die in your sleep [TS]

  the best really yeah the best you can hope for is to die in your sleep [TS]

  oh and it's such a mccobb I mean the whole thing is so folks in ridiculous at [TS]

  and then there's the that's just tossed out there and if you think about it [TS]

  there is actual I don't know what got me something you just said about the best [TS]

  best we can hope for something that reminded every hand the winner every [TS]

  hands a loser but the best you can hope for but in his final words i found the [TS]

  days that i could keep it [TS]

  you know like John there are enough advice songs are songs that are just [TS]

  filled with folks the advice [TS]

  well i think that if you read between the lines at first you want to say well [TS]

  that's not the best that you can hope for there's all sorts no it's literally [TS]

  it's literally not the best that you can hope for [TS]

  they not going well see available way or is it well but if you're if if you [TS]

  accept the premise that we're all going to die [TS]

  okay then and I know like our friend Peter teal friend of the good friend of [TS]

  the show Peter teal does does does not accept this premise is working then then [TS]

  that there's a certain logic to it where you gotta die somehow and like that at [TS]

  the end we're all going to be in the dirt and so the best that you can hope [TS]

  for is to die initially because any other way of dying is not a song called [TS]

  coward of the county little bit of a cowardly way to jack up your aspirations [TS]

  is Cochise i hope i'm not awake when this happens whether you do you have any [TS]

  thoughts on the whole Peter teal Gawker thing [TS]

  nope no I'm gonna have problems enough from john i toss it out and in a in a [TS]

  reply so i think that it's I think that it's a it got lost but i doubt it a [TS]

  little gag i tweeted this one out to everybody i tweeted that Batman vs [TS]

  Superman to Bruce Wayne spends a decade and 10 million dollars financing [TS]

  lawsuits to bankrupt the Daily Planet pretty good joke Africa and then and [TS]

  then somebody tweeted like whoa I'm in as long as it's subtitled electric [TS]

  boogaloo and I treated back know obviously it the subtitle is man of teal [TS]

  oh right i had to get that after you don't even give them all your good ones [TS]

  yes just pick and choose you should write an advice song-ah meta meta stuff [TS]

  here at the end of the show medicine of stuff that's coming out is I got the [TS]

  live talk show coming up and young as we speak I think 13 days so I got to get [TS]

  the tickets out [TS]

  I think fingers crossed that by the time anybody is listening to me tell you this [TS]

  that the show will probably already be sold out every congratulations man that [TS]

  was always the law great hoping to launch soon hopefully it'll be a good [TS]

  show this year too but if you want to you could go and look at their and [TS]

  fireball and see if there's still tickets available so that's coming up it [TS]

  is going to be the same venue be Tuesday the day after the keynote at mezzanine [TS]

  and here's the more important part so we're limited i think i think we're [TS]

  limited to around 500 tickets just with the way we set up the the venue and the [TS]

  seats and everything like that and it's sold out [TS]

  you know every year so far and I think because last year show blew up and was [TS]

  so big that it's probably going to be even more in demand this my expectations [TS]

  buddy high expectations i wish we could find a bigger venue but it's it's really [TS]

  kind of tight combined with all of the you know it [TS]

  mezzanine is perfect in so many ways other than the fact that if we could fit [TS]

  more we would love to fit more but we can't it's it's the to my knowledge the [TS]

  best venue we can find that I'm sorry but we do plan on having a live video [TS]

  stream again last year I didn't really promote the live video stream because I [TS]

  was so worried that it wasn't going to hold up but it did hold up so fingers [TS]

  crossed it hold up again but anybody who wants to follow along live and doesn't [TS]

  get in with a ticket or you know if you're not even in San Francisco that [TS]

  ticket is even an option you should be able to watch live it will be tuesday i [TS]

  think doors open at six specific so and what the show should start sometime [TS]

  around seven o'clock pacific which is 10 eastern time and it should be a lot of [TS]

  fun life that's great then looking forward [TS]

  yeah I've got your I've got your ticket reserved already boom i'm gonna set that [TS]

  it's it's a phone a crazy week it's super-crazy one other medicine and I [TS]

  haven't done this while saving it for your show you know you being the guest [TS]

  on the show is I I joke sometimes that the this show is America's favorite [TS]

  three-star podcast [TS]

  but it's actually is still rated three stars on iTunes its to start it off with [TS]

  very low ratings when when when I split with our old friend and Benjamin and [TS]

  there were some people who are not a upset about it and left left a lot of [TS]

  very very poor reviews that's a mother called activists reviewers the activists [TS]

  reviewers and and you know that's what the system is therefore that's why I [TS]

  can't do delete them I wouldn't delete them even if I could [TS]

  fair's fair you know that's the way the system works on but I know force the [TS]

  diner sleep a lot of other shows often remind their their viewers to to leave a [TS]

  review and and do that and apparently i've been told that this is actually [TS]

  true that it actually does help in the itunes you know there's like a manual [TS]

  system where itunes the people who work there in a podcast can manually promote [TS]

  shows but like the automated stuff and getting a little high nose rankings [TS]

  definitely helps to get good reviews and that it can grow the audience and maybe [TS]

  I shouldn't be so I don't know what's the word coy and I don't want to ask [TS]

  people to leave reviews but i'm i'm asking i'll see i'll say it for you it [TS]

  is it's very difficult to know what doesn't doesn't doesn't always help when [TS]

  you've got a podcast there's a lot of black boxes in podcasting what I see is [TS]

  this if like me you enjoy John show consider going leave a nice review leave [TS]

  a five-star reviews offset the activists reviewers I don't leave an honest review [TS]

  you don't think that always honest for that us for that you're gonna know [TS]

  window here's the thing you gotta know when to home ok gotta know when to fold [TS]

  them number three you gotta know when to walk away and finally fourth you gotta [TS]

  know when to run all this number five don't count your money when you sit at [TS]

  the table [TS]

  oh and so finally turns out the best you can hope for is that your sleep [TS]

  I have always also thought that part some of the worst advice you'll ever [TS]

  hear is do not count your money while you're gambling haha anything anybody [TS]

  listening and overcast you could use their little recommendation dingus as [TS]

  well and promote the show but anyway if you like to show do me a favor and and [TS]

  taking things about it anyway I'll see some of you guys soon [TS]

  we should have at least one more show before the live one but look forward to [TS]

  seeing you guys who will be there at the at the live show my thanks to You Merlin [TS]

  Mann for your generous use of your time and and and your thoughts and my thanks [TS]

  to our sponsors today mat.com the daily deal site [TS]

  mat.com of the forum where you can go and read cool articles by glenn [TS]

  Fleischmann and others and last but not least mat.com fuck those guys [TS]

  you got to accept every free drink [TS]

  try not to overthink trust your dumb look don't give a fuck you gotta blow [TS]

  your fortune before you even realize the best that you could hold for is lay down [TS]

  and die and not everybody [TS]