0:00:00mg job long time no long time no hear ya
0:00:05are you very good been too long so what it what are you up to these days what
0:00:09are you what the hell are you doing
0:00:11so uh I came back from the UK i was over there for a year helping to set up
0:00:17google ventures European operations over there and with that off the ground and
0:00:22came back a about i guess more than six months ago now is sometime last summer
0:00:27it's actually we're going to work heading back to the UK for the first
0:00:31time in since we left so it's almost been a year anyway so back on the ground
0:00:37in san francisco now back just to doing us google ventures now called GV is a
0:00:45part of the alphabet stuff in Essos google ventures is one of the alphabet
0:00:50companies that's a sister company now to google versus being you know under
0:00:55google same same basic idea but they would prefer we use the name GV instead
0:01:03of google ventures now right as part of the whole if it's really a sibling to
0:01:09google and part of alphabet it shouldn't be called google right exactly so so
0:01:13yeah so back but doing the same stuff just a investing in the you know mainly
0:01:19early stage early to mid-stage companies here I what you do you think that having
0:01:25spent a whole year in $YEAR in the UK when you came back did it did you look
0:01:33at at the the valley culture and sort of feel like you have fresh eyes or did
0:01:39feel like it just instantly like you know what I'm home it's a good question
0:01:43because I did think about that the longer sort of i was over there and
0:01:47obviously we are coming back fairly regularly i think it was back at least
0:01:51once a quarter in the US and mainly in the bay area when I came back but still
0:01:56the longer i was over there you do start to get detached from it and i felt like
0:02:02i was able to look at it from much more of a outsider perspective after having
0:02:07lived in the area for almost 10 years you know
0:02:10concurrently and
0:02:14it it was interesting coming back and you do feel like you get just like sort
0:02:20of right back into the swing of things almost like you hadn't left the same
0:02:23time I had these lingering remembrances of of what it was like being over in the
0:02:28UK and sort of watching remotely both because of what we talked about the
0:02:32timezone thing was was one of the more interesting things when I would wake up
0:02:36in the morning it was mostly either people who are up really late for people
0:02:40who are out drinking or something like that on twitter and so i would i would
0:02:45have a much much different usage of Twitter when I was over there then I do
0:02:50when I'm over here and it's just sort of in the in the thick of it with everyone
0:02:54when I'm over there it's it's almost like you're using it to play catch-up
0:02:58and then talking to a few drunk people so but anyway yes so when I when I came
0:03:05back it did I did get right back into the swing of things but i still have
0:03:09these hopefully different perspective on you know and how sort of the outside
0:03:17view Silicon Valley versus being in it for a decade and do you think that do
0:03:27you think that outside the valley start-up's are under represented by RR
0:03:35over or more likely to be overlooked
0:03:38yeah like I'd that's my outsider's perspective my outsider's perspective is
0:03:42that inside the valley it the the focus is so insular because there's so many
0:03:47things going on in so many smart people and so many interesting things that it's
0:03:53it it cultivates an idea that everything worth looking at is in the valley yeah
0:03:57that's a good way to frame because most people you know talk about well you're
0:04:01too far in the forest and you know you guys are just missing sort of what's
0:04:06outside of the valley the reality of the situation at least from my perspective
0:04:09is sort of what you're suggesting which is that there are so many interesting
0:04:13things going on in Silicon Valley that it's it's honestly just hard as a matter
0:04:17of time to be able to look outside of it unless you happen to be in a locale
0:04:22that's outside of it so most of the people here who are investing here
0:04:26or certain companies here uh you know our that you know very much in the in
0:04:32the thick of it and so it is it is probably it's definitely fair to say
0:04:37that you know sort of outside of Silicon Valley is on her represented under
0:04:42represented in the minds of everyone here but i do think that that's just as
0:04:47much of a function of again there being so much here to think about and look at
0:04:53and so it's it's a it's just the proximity and time issue but then when
0:04:59you move to somewhere else like London or any other locale you know then of
0:05:04course you're you're closer to some of those things and so you start to see
0:05:07outside of that and that's not just say whether or not you know it's it's a good
0:05:12or bad thing I think overall everyone would agree it's sort of a bad thing to
0:05:15have blind spots to something if if you're not aware of it but uh you know
0:05:22it's it's an easier thing that said than done when when the proximity thing is is
0:05:27such a key factor know what I'm trying to think since the last time you've been
0:05:37on the show
0:05:37what are some of the big high level changes to the type of stuff we talked
0:05:41about
0:05:41well apple still doomed he had more doom than ever that the more the more money
0:05:48they make them you know the heart the farther they would fall so it's gonna be
0:05:52it's a catastrophic fall that's that's happening i think that you know only
0:05:56made whatever what did they make 50 50 billion in revenue last quarter
0:06:01something like that
0:06:02I something that
0:06:05yeah i think so and 10 10 billion in profit it's more than you know all all
0:06:09the major other tech companies combined it's a it's way more than any other
0:06:13company of course including Exxon and all the maybe so but uh you know I would
0:06:19sit aramco I guess is about to or not a ramco it's um what's the what's the
0:06:24Saudi 10 i forget the name ID i know i know you're talking about but I forget
0:06:30that it sounds like they're about to go public or spun out partially so we're
0:06:33about to see how much money potentially that they make and it could be something
0:06:37comfortable dapple so maybe the first time we
0:06:40we get something like that yeah it's not just only compares to the gas and oil
0:06:45companies
0:06:46yeah and it's kind of funny because we grew up I you know I mean I've even
0:06:51people who are significantly older than us I think I grew up in a world where
0:06:55it's just well of course the gas and oil companies are the biggest companies in
0:06:59the world right it's just it's just like that's the world whereas I it's like
0:07:03I've I'm old enough now to sort of and you know with all the climate change
0:07:08stuff and and all let you know that the interest in renewable energy
0:07:12everybody's looking at that you know in questioning it and and you know that
0:07:17it's no longer taken as a given that this is just the way it is right but I i
0:07:23did the math love when with all the skepticism with apples you know
0:07:27quote-unquote bomb quarter last quarter and it really was true i think i forget
0:07:32if it was revenue a project i was looking a profit and yeah it was profit
0:07:35because that's why I I took I took amazon out of the equation because they
0:07:39don't try for profit so it's right now it's almost like it's like you're it
0:07:44you're stacking the deck and if in the favor of Apple by comparing amazon but i
0:07:49think it was like Google Microsoft and Facebook combine that they had more
0:07:52profit than right which is just yet insane especially like with Microsoft
0:07:57who and Google too i think one thing you could google is often you know that
0:08:02largely has tried for profit but Microsoft famously it you know it was
0:08:07the most profitable company in in the industry
0:08:11yeah yeah I remember when I you know thinking back to how I don't even
0:08:15remember how long it was 67 years ago or something sort of when I was at its
0:08:19still techcrunch looking trying to cover sort of the day-to-day of putting into
0:08:24context like just how fast apples growing and and how big it is relative
0:08:27some of the other tech companies and I remember both putting it in the context
0:08:32of Microsoft at the time and Microsoft was still leaps and bounds ahead both
0:08:35certainly in profit and I think in still at revenue at that point but the other
0:08:42one i remember is HP like HP was so far ahead and revenue that it seemed like
0:08:48Apple would never be able to surpass something like that and then
0:08:51you know it's like 18 months later it was it was so far in the rearview mirror
0:08:55that it was it was insane
0:08:57even that even the HP brand and ipods couldn't change that
0:09:02that's right they somehow didn't didn't write the ship and now it's like now HP
0:09:05has been spun out or it's got split up once right and I think they just sold a
0:09:09separate a part of the enterprise version that was spun out so it's like
0:09:14three separate companies now that was the the one behemoth at that point that
0:09:18seemed seem like you know a tech company could never top of those those types of
0:09:22revenues and now it's funny
0:09:25yeah and it's like HP is one of those coming I ever had a great interest in
0:09:29hewlett-packard you know I mean but they were at least relevant to this fear of
0:09:34things that i read and now it's almost like when an article comes up with a
0:09:37review of like an HP laptop or something i'm like wow HP haven't thought about
0:09:41them and like a year
0:09:43yeah I am the same way just don't even think about it is basically only when I
0:09:47like see on tech named the earnings report of HP and that's like the only
0:09:51time i'll see like the headline of like yeah they they beat or they slightly
0:09:56missed or whatever on on their their targets for the it's like it's it it's
0:10:00such a mind-numbing you know headline to read like just don't have time to really
0:10:06care that much anymore about HP what's the name of microsoft tablet surface
0:10:13surface service so i just saw a review the other day where we're HP came out
0:10:20with like more or less their competitor to the surface and it's it's like it's
0:10:26just like a surface and and their advertising it but you can open it up in
0:10:30like you know replace the ram and you can look through this and that and you
0:10:34know it's like all this stuff that was like the things people wanted to do with
0:10:39their pcs like 10 years ago but then like the bottom line is so it's just
0:10:42like a surface and out-of-the-box it's thicker and heavier like yeah that's
0:10:47great good job at your luck with a UH but it so it's just it's a tablet that
0:10:54with it with the keyboard thing
0:10:56yeah i'll try to find the review and i'll put the link in the show that show
0:11:00notes oh it's at it I'd it's just like yeah I don't have some division
0:11:04HP is still making these things in it you know it squeaked out the side but
0:11:07it's like it's not pride
0:11:10yeah there it's you know it's the office space guy with the red stapler in the
0:11:14basement was just doing this and no one realizes it
0:11:18yeah exactly right he's still down there making laptop and it's like looking
0:11:23around the industry news like well I guess that's the new form back but
0:11:25that's what he made
0:11:27that's exactly it
0:11:31you are a I think I a you've been bullish on uber right Shirin and I mean
0:11:45you know Stevie's a pretty big investors right yeah it right so it's you know you
0:11:51know let's just go lows and everytime TVs and investment in somebody right but
0:11:55I I feel like that again you know not having had you on the show in a long
0:12:00time that to me that the ride sharing and you know it doesn't have to be over
0:12:06in particular but it's it's a it it seems to be accelerating at a dark
0:12:16almost crazy rate and I could be wrong maybe like one thing I had a couple
0:12:20years ago I don't know because about 10 years ago there were a lot here in
0:12:25philly especially the zipcars was a pretty common yeah and you'd see them
0:12:30and I always noticed it because I notice branding and stuff that you know the
0:12:34cars all had zipcars printed on the side and I knew where all the parking lots
0:12:38were where where they were and it was something that when we were shopping for
0:12:43a car 10 years ago we considered it
0:12:46we've really strongly thought maybe we don't have to buy a car maybe we could
0:12:49just do the zipcars thing but it's like we we kind of like pretended you know
0:12:54like well let's pretend it's a rainy day and how far do we have to go and as I
0:12:57guess it's pretty far so we didn't we didn't go for we bought a car but I've
0:13:01noticed in this is totally anecdotal but i don't see anywhere near as many
0:13:05zipcars in Philadelphia as I used to like that seem like that got popular and
0:13:10now it's less popular and I can't help but think that it's it's the rideshare
0:13:15will set its that
0:13:17so how actually I the last time I've been in Philadelphia a long time
0:13:22certainly will
0:13:23well before over and left and whatnot existed so it's over pretty ubiquitous
0:13:26like that how people
0:13:28yeah people get around well I can't speak for the whole city of Philadelphia
0:13:32Philadelphia and center city philadelphia is you know the downtown
0:13:35part of philadelphia is all centralized it's one continuous rectangular black
0:13:39and with in center city philly it's you know it it never more than five minute
0:13:45wait for a black car or SUV and I don't really do the you Rex but it's I think
0:13:51it's even less for that and you know
0:13:53yep it's really really i justjust philly have public good public transportation
0:13:57really bad public transportation i would i would qualify it as mediocre we have
0:14:04to subway lines when it goes east west and one that goes north south so it's
0:14:08just effectively just like a plus that goes right through the center of you get
0:14:13right through the center of the city so like in the sporting complex all this
0:14:17the the Phillies the Eagles the Sixers all of this stuff is all in one big area
0:14:23way down in South Philly so it's easy from that if i'm going to a game i just
0:14:27walked to the what we call the broad street line the one that goes north
0:14:30south up on that and go south and it's great if you want to go anywhere off
0:14:35that plus grid it's not so great i mean there's buses but yeah now I mean even
0:14:41in the cities now with great public transportation New York obviously London
0:14:45be another it's still you're still seeing uber lyft and and all all the
0:14:50rest sort of just taking over and becoming huge and all these markets just
0:14:54because I mean I think there's a number of things at play but but the
0:14:58convenience factor of course like just dialing up something in it and it being
0:15:02there right at your doorstep and taking you exactly to where you need to go you
0:15:08know just make sense for a lot of people you you talked about your your wife and
0:15:12yourself sort of thinking about it zip code makes sense you know when Megan my
0:15:16wife and I moved over to London we sold our cars here in San Francisco and so
0:15:22when we came back you know we we thought about what what should we do
0:15:26and right now we still don't have cars been almost a year neither one of us
0:15:29have a car
0:15:30and we do use over to get everywhere basically a few times we've rented a car
0:15:36like if we're going you know for an extended trip up north or down south but
0:15:42for you know 99 percent of our our travel now is with uber and I don't want
0:15:47to preface that a little bit because I know I sound like the you know that I
0:15:50sound like a silicon valley perhaps stereotype
0:15:54yeah we can get everywhere we need to go on over but like the reality is in a lot
0:15:58of I think metro areas now it can be cheaper depending on your situation and
0:16:06depending on what you need to do is obviously a little bit different if you
0:16:08have children and and some other life situations but for the situation that
0:16:13were currently in it's definitely cheaper for us to to use something like
0:16:18uber and uber X and we were pool like you know the the carpooling version of
0:16:22it to get around a city vs owning a car having to pay insurance having to pay
0:16:26for gas having to pay for parking and everything else that's included
0:16:30yeah and it's just it's just one of those things that like it's really
0:16:34opened my eyes to just Iike I know it sounds so obvious it sounds such a duh
0:16:41but it's like God look at all these cars that are parked every other and and I
0:16:46know that this is part of the just the basic argument but it's that the
0:16:49industry is right for transportation but when you're in a city and used to see
0:16:53cars parked everywhere and you see you know buildings that are just parking
0:16:58garages just stacked with cars and you just think all these cars are just
0:17:01sitting here for hours and hours and hours and you think like you know in the
0:17:05in / is you know is always in motion yeah i mean i think that's a good point
0:17:11and it's something that that gets talked about a little bit but not enough and I
0:17:15think it will be talked about more and more as this becomes more of the reality
0:17:19in more places but you're exactly right like imagine the future you know whether
0:17:24it's it's uber and lyft or the eventual sort of self-driving car elements where
0:17:30all the sudden all of these spaces and cities are unlocked they're just used as
0:17:35you said to sort of like how scars that just sit there all day which is
0:17:39ridiculous so much so much of city life is taken up by these giant parking
0:17:44garage
0:17:44is that when you can unlock that you no longer need those like cities become you
0:17:49know much better as a result of having all that space sort of freed up and you
0:17:52can put any number of things there anything you want all these you know who
0:17:56knows how much square footage is out there that's that's just devoted to
0:17:59parking but it is a ton
0:18:02yeah it's it's you know and when you think about it and you just don't you
0:18:07know again it's like you know when I first came to philly you know and in for
0:18:11college in the early nineties it i just assumed that the city would be full of
0:18:15cars so that's just the world as I knew it but as I you know question it now
0:18:19it's this seems ridiculous
0:18:21yeah i still do wonder so I grew up in a suburb outside of Cleveland and you know
0:18:29it's a fairly typical yeah you know Midwestern like suburb and they're
0:18:36obviously it's not super dense and you have to drive everywhere and so I've
0:18:41been home a few times you know in the past few years and it's they have over
0:18:48and I do take it but it's not nearly as of course as ubiquitous as it would be
0:18:54in the city like even in downtown Cleveland it would be a lot more
0:18:56ubiquitous of course and so I do wonder for like the the suburbs and outside
0:19:03reasons like how long that will take the tip but i still think it will like it's
0:19:06just it just I think it will spill out from the cities into that and it's just
0:19:12a matter of having enough are you know cars on the roads that are that are
0:19:17performing those tasks to be able to do it in a suburban areas well like I know
0:19:21a lot of people still think in the suburbs just not feasible you have to go
0:19:25grocery shopping you know and do all these things that are sort of always a
0:19:29drive away but again at scale i'm not so sure that that's totally unreasonable i
0:19:35was listening to one bill simmons podcast recently and
0:19:42he and i think only half in jest he has a theory that because of uber there are
0:19:48more people having accidental third kids because over the existence of uber makes
0:19:56it so much easier for like parents with kids to go out and have a couple drinks
0:20:01at dinner
0:20:03yeah then they would in the past like if you had to drive some one of the two of
0:20:07you would have to you don't have to abstain and if both of you know if you
0:20:11just take an uber to dinner you can both you know you can both drink and so his
0:20:14theory there's gonna be a lot more families with three kids instead it if
0:20:18that's pretty funny i like that
0:20:19hey boomer you know like a right who was helping the world in in in families with
0:20:27families that's what it's all about but there's it's it seems funny because it's
0:20:32you know it's just a funny idea that people are going to do have extra baby's
0:20:37butt but there's a certain logic to yeah you think it's me donated that you know
0:20:41it's sort of the the flip side of that just in general isn't it great to know
0:20:45like with when you go out in a city or or not anywhere really you know when you
0:20:51want to have a few drinks like you just do not have to worry about it you in
0:20:56that just was not the reality 10 years ago of course right and there's parts of
0:21:00philly you know this man doesn't matter it doesn't mean anything to you if
0:21:06you're not here but like an area we call fishtown and and like the gentrified
0:21:11area like the part that was really kind of sketchy even 10-15 years ago and
0:21:15there's all that sort of like that that's where all the hipsters stuff yes
0:21:18but there's lots and like I mean it because of that there's it's all sorts
0:21:22of no new restaurants that open up open up in that area and it's always even now
0:21:28that it's more popular grossly under served by cabs so like you can get a cab
0:21:33to go there easily but then when you want to leave you are you know good luck
0:21:39you know you can and it's actually the type of thing where you know you
0:21:42actually like call a cab company which seems like such an old-timey thing to do
0:21:46but then you know you wait and it's like everytime i remember from gonna be in
0:21:53the old days before ruber
0:21:55stuff like that if i did call for a cab you know you could wait half an hour and
0:21:59then they don't come oh yeah I mean that was that was very much the reality of
0:22:03the situation when I got to san francisco almost 10 years ago and of
0:22:07course this is you know that everyone knows the thing now like part of the
0:22:11reason why you were came into existence i mean the main story was like they were
0:22:14in Paris and and sort of a a tech conference and sort of talking about you
0:22:19know like wouldn't it be cool to have a black car service or whatever but the
0:22:22reality is that when they got back to San Francisco everyone was living in
0:22:25this reality we're san francisco public transportation was awful and it still is
0:22:29awful outside over you know muni is the the line here that some the public
0:22:33transportation that goes down all the time and is always running late and it's
0:22:37it's a constant joke if you follow like mat Honan on on Twitter it's like fifty
0:22:42percent of his tweets are complaining about muni and then we have the BART
0:22:46system which is that we have all these like sort of half-baked public
0:22:50transportation things but when i moved to san francisco i lived in an area
0:22:53called russian hill which was not connected to any where near any of the
0:22:57public transportation
0:22:58aside from the cable cars which I would take every once in a while which is sort
0:23:03of ridiculous because it's very much you know like a tourist thing and so I'm on
0:23:06there with you know 50 tourists and I'm trying to take this to commute into soma
0:23:11and it takes forever because it was slow to appreciate the view or whatever but
0:23:17that was the reality of public transportation for me when I moved to
0:23:20San Francisco and yes so like you would see a cab
0:23:24every once in awhile but if you if you would have to get lucky to sort of spot
0:23:28one out there and that was even still like a better situation than trying to
0:23:33call one i mean i remember i would call them from my apartment in russian hill
0:23:37and and it would be often like a 45-minute wait and about half the time
0:23:41they just wouldn't show up at all so you couldn't trust it and so like when
0:23:44people are talking about you know like like there's a simple things that led to
0:23:48the rise of of services like uber and they're just why the the cab companies
0:23:53get all mad like you know that that this is happening to them it's like I mean
0:23:58they really did do it to themselves
0:24:00yeah in philly it's again a long story short but the cab situation here is to
0:24:05I've told the story on the show before but it really is true Phillies cabs
0:24:08r-really lower less regulated in terms of i can just the mean we have it's just
0:24:15like new york and other big cities where you have to have a taxi medallion and
0:24:20limit the number of medallions you know it so it's like artificial school ready
0:24:24but the actual cars themselves don't have very high inspection standards and
0:24:29New York does and so most of the cabs on the road in Philadelphia our cabs that
0:24:36failed regular you know the inspection
0:24:39that's fine i just ship they just shifting down the Jersey Turnpike and
0:24:42sell them to cab companies in philly or police cruisers the last time I could
0:24:48remember the name of the car Crown Victorias just a and some of them you if
0:24:52you actually pay attention to the crown vic cabs in philly you can actually
0:24:55still see the ones that have the police back they just they just paint them they
0:25:00just paint over that's funny
0:25:01they're just and everybody knows that police officers abuse their cars their
0:25:05course you know they drive up curves you know here and there you know their
0:25:09inaction and then once the police are like wow this isn't even good enough to
0:25:12use for a police cruiser anymore then they just sell them to a cab company in
0:25:16philly and they're just really again this is a total white wine this is
0:25:20absolutely coming from a position of privilege but the the cat most of the
0:25:26cabin philly they're just gross
0:25:27they're just gross be a they don't smell good that the air conditioning is a lot
0:25:33of them especially the crown fixed and then the crown vics are there because
0:25:37they're not making them anymore and so slowly but surely they're getting off
0:25:39the roads and they're being replaced by newer cars but like the crown vics they
0:25:46all have the the safety style divider between you and the the cab writer
0:25:53window with Plexiglas and most of them there's just like this gross
0:25:57I swear to God like a 2-inch diameter tube down on the floor coming from the
0:26:02front which is where the heater air-conditioning gets sent to the back
0:26:05but that's great i guess that at first I thought you were going that's where sort
0:26:10of the the the driver discharges when they've been driving for a long time so
0:26:14that's slightly better than that but yeah slightly but it's definitely but
0:26:19like--imagine like an accordion style too
0:26:22don't like the last attitude like this or you know there's 12 kids can like
0:26:25wave around and they make like a funny noise it's like that type of tube and
0:26:28it's just there on the floor and that's that's where your air conditioning and
0:26:32its really it they did it to them and so that used to be the situation to with
0:26:36cabs in san francisco for sure they were disgusting like the ridiculous cars i've
0:26:41noticed the only time I ever take a cab anymore in San Francisco have taken a
0:26:45few coming back from the airport just because obviously a lot of cities as i'm
0:26:49sure you know to have these weird rules around like we're never lift can pick
0:26:54you up and like you know after that it takes sometimes longer to wait because
0:26:58of that is results so if I'm in a hurry I'll just hop in a cab and so I've been
0:27:02in a few recently coming back from places and uh the cabs are like night
0:27:07and day better than they were those eight years ago I mean it'sit's the case
0:27:11of just the existence of uber lyft and everything else has caused them to use
0:27:16force them to to up their game which means no longer accordion tubes of heat
0:27:22and of course they all now have you know sort of the at first
0:27:26none of them would take credit card in San Francisco it drove me a taxane now
0:27:31they all seem to as a result of this but yeah things like that and you can summon
0:27:36a few from apps now it seems like an and whatnot so it has risen all prison
0:27:42the tide has risen for all boats but still got to come took that case for it
0:27:48to happen
0:27:48alright let's hold that thought because i'll come back to it
0:27:52I don't want to talk about apple and where the rises self-driving cars might
0:27:58play into apples car emissions but I'm gonna take a breaker and thank our first
0:28:02sponsor it is wealthfront wealthfront is an automated investment service that
0:28:07holds over three billion dollars in client assets in plain English well
0:28:12front makes it easy for anyone to get a sophisticated access to a sophisticated
0:28:17diversified long-term investment portfolio without high fees in fact with
0:28:22very low fees and with a minimal account minimums you don't you don't have to put
0:28:28a lot of money in you just give it your money too well friend invested there and
0:28:33then they take care of all the complex stuff of
0:28:36where to actually invest it investors with small accounts love wealthfront
0:28:42because they're low account minimum is just 500 bucks so you don't have to put
0:28:47a lot of money into this if you want to get started without well front and in
0:28:51fact I even their clients who have larger investments large investments
0:28:57typically start with a small amount just to see what it's like just to
0:29:02double-check don't take my word for it as a guy reading the podcast add just
0:29:05you know put $500,000 in see how it works see how easy the website is etc
0:29:10and then put your quote-unquote real money in but you can start with just 500
0:29:15bucks and up to ten thousand dollars is managed for free
0:29:20totally free but if you follow the URL i have for you which is wealthfront calm /
0:29:27the talk show you get up to fifteen thousand dollars manage for free
0:29:32investors with larger accounts over $15,000 love wealthfront because they
0:29:39have incredibly valuable investment services they do things like something
0:29:45called tax-loss harvesting long story short it just minimizes the amount of
0:29:49taxes you have to pay strategically on your investment and the fees are
0:29:55incredibly low their client fee is just one quarter of one percent and that's
0:30:00only on the money you put in the account over ten thousand dollars but it's over
0:30:05fifteen thousand dollars if you follow my url so if you're looking for a
0:30:10smarter way to invest for the long term go check them out they have so much
0:30:14information on our website and so many different account types they have
0:30:18corporate accounts they have anything you can want way more detailed than i
0:30:22can tell you go to wealthfront dot-com / the talk show while front calm / the
0:30:30talk show it's a great place to invest your money so i would say this is one of
0:30:34the most frequent emails I get on a weekly basis from readers of daring
0:30:40fireball or listeners of the show is just readers just saying hey hey John
0:30:45idea I
0:30:48what if Apple's car project isn't about a car that they're going to sell what if
0:30:52it's a like a self-driving car service and I I can't tell you I I mean
0:30:57literally I get a two or three emails like that a week and my answer is I i if
0:31:02I did if I answer that you may like a lot of times I don't have time to answer
0:31:06emails i'm sorry about that but my answer is maybe I I don't know it's
0:31:11possible i mean my only thing about that though is that Apple traditionally is a
0:31:15company that at its core makes objects that are beautiful that are
0:31:23well-designed that have like a sexiness to them and then they sell them to
0:31:28people who want nice things at a premium price that's just what Apple does so the
0:31:34common sense would tell me that it just by history that if Apple's making a car
0:31:39they're making a car that they plan to sell a up on a high-profit yeah i mean
0:31:44so that's been a thing that that's been bandied about i guess since since the
0:31:49whole rumors of apple car started first and foremost it was but I wasn't going
0:31:55to be an electric car and it seems like I mean that's it that seems like a
0:31:58for-sure thing right there is no chance that Apple makes a you know an old gas
0:32:03guzzler type car I i would say oh yeah I would say of all the maybes and who the
0:32:09hell knows what they're planning with cars that's the one thing i would i
0:32:11would say is a hundred percent like yeah because it's it's so off their brand at
0:32:16this bright we're so committed with environments and everything right like
0:32:20right yeah they're so committed to the environment I mean I here in fact that
0:32:24it's the same everywhere but here in philly that front of the store right now
0:32:29says this store is that runs on the other percent renewal is all that exists
0:32:33think the other day
0:32:34yep did Paris person away right
0:32:38you could sell a device that runs on gasoline was inside the door that says
0:32:44the store runs on our presenter noble energy you just can't it's off the brand
0:32:48so I just clearly they're not I don't even think they're they're looking at
0:32:51maybe yeah maybe in like 10 years i have the campaign like you know we you know
0:32:55we really are upset that global warming has slowed to the level you know
0:33:00sustainability so we're really amping
0:33:02stop we want to want to get back on track
0:33:05the world is becoming too cold and so yeah so that I do wonder like I and I
0:33:12also think i mean i would i would guess that that also rules out a hybrid you
0:33:16know they could do something like that i guess but i would imagine that they just
0:33:20were in this thread the place now with with we're Tesla's at where it would
0:33:23make no sense i think to even do a hybrid approach it has to be all
0:33:26electric right i think so I i think even and I I just think they can get they
0:33:32just can't get near I think I think branding wise is why I'm sorry that they
0:33:37just can't get near gasoline but i think just putting on my you know predicting
0:33:43the future hat I i just think that's on the way out i think that hybrids were
0:33:48obviously a stop wrap and you know maybe a necessary when I'm not even saying
0:33:52that they weren't you know that the hybrids are on a road aren't doing a
0:33:55good job but it clearly doesn't seem like that's where the puck is go so the
0:34:00other . of wood apple just do this as sort of a service type thing is the
0:34:05interesting question i mean i'm with you that I I it just doesn't seem like it's
0:34:11it's what they do that they would they would do something like that it is
0:34:15interesting to think about if they're you know if they're sort of looking at
0:34:19the big level picture of what everyone else is looking at like with with her to
0:34:22the quote-unquote doom of Apple you know that they can't find they can't find a
0:34:26business that some that's more interesting than the iphone do they
0:34:30start to really think outside the box and as they start to go down past more
0:34:34services I mean maybe there's a chance that you know they realized that this
0:34:40beyond just selling a car themselves maybe it's more interesting to have a
0:34:44service that's you know potentially a more stable source of ongoing revenue
0:34:51maybe but I don't I mean I don't think that's the case but it that's the only
0:34:55like argument i could make as to why they would do something like that arm i
0:35:00do think the self-driving question itself is interesting it also would seem
0:35:05to me that that's what they would likely be going after versus having it just be
0:35:11one electric but I don't know about that it's possible that they're doing like a
0:35:15cat
0:35:15two pronged approach one an electric car that you can drive yourself like Tesla
0:35:19to the fully self driving one or some sort of hybrid is you know like sort of
0:35:24a lot of the test was now we're rolling out these like software updates to do
0:35:27like autonomous driving in some capacity like when it's on the freeway and
0:35:31whatnot so they could end up being something like that I'd I just feel like
0:35:37the timeline doesn't add up to bank on self-driving my my best guess and it to
0:35:44sound so like like I'm trying to have it every way I'm not you know I'm not
0:35:47making a front prediction but my guess is that Apple is working on electric
0:35:53cars that they are absolutely working on self-driving technologies and when you
0:35:59know let's say that earlier i think the earliest they could possibly actually
0:36:02unveil an apple-branded car is like 20 20 so even even if there's some kind of
0:36:09apple magic that throwing their resources at that then that proves me
0:36:16wrong 2019
0:36:18I mean it just seems crazy to go from not having a car a other than as a
0:36:22secret project to actually having them on the road that you can by 2019 seems
0:36:26like Fantasyland by 2020 will self-driving cars be there that you
0:36:33could do like the not even have your hands on the you know not even be paying
0:36:38attention to the road
0:36:39I just don't see that as possible and even just legally right even if the
0:36:43technology I think the technology is going to get there before the laws yet
0:36:47but i mean that's that's a hundred percent sure I mean I guess they could
0:36:55keep maybe you could look at it it's sort of like the way you know like the
0:36:59iphone role that right like there were armed faster 3g services at the time
0:37:06right but they rolled out without 3g and so like maybe it is still the case even
0:37:10if there was a self-driving cars out on the road and like or us a 75-percent
0:37:15self-driving it's like it could be self-driving beyond like a few you know
0:37:20areas where it's not it's possible that Apple would just roll out it is not you
0:37:24know not all advertised or whatever as as self-driving because they don't feel
0:37:29it's a good enough experience yet and that's that I could see that you know
0:37:32that world where it's like you know maybe maybe who was something out there
0:37:37maybe we were maybe Tesla and they're they're building the Morris self-driving
0:37:42but apples a bit more sort of cautious on that front and and and really waiting
0:37:47for it to be like a fully self driving thing before they go down that road
0:37:51yeah that's exactly what i think is that they're they're planning for that full
0:37:55steam ahead but that they are also planning i'm guessing to ship a car
0:38:00before thats ready yeah and that exactly you know the analogy to 3G and LTE but
0:38:063g is the perfect example because their 3g was actually there were 3g phones
0:38:10it's actually one of the you know if you go back and look at the claim chapter of
0:38:13the people who hoop and the original iphone they'd be like it's not even
0:38:17three join you know it's right
0:38:19I i think it's that sort of thing where they're like look for practical purposes
0:38:22we're going to go with edge for this one and you know we'll pick up 3g years but
0:38:27do you think that they would do the sort of like with testicles done so they roll
0:38:31out one high-end you know the test started with the roadster which is like
0:38:35super high-end super fancy sports right and then in yuan muskan that in that
0:38:41great blog post many years ago laid out exactly what they were going to do and
0:38:44what they're now going off right that they would then roll out a cheaper
0:38:48version and then sort of a SUV type version and then like the cheapest
0:38:54version you know sort of the mass-market version do you think Apple would take
0:38:57that approach something akin to that where they do sort of one at a time
0:39:01first throwing out like say two models you know like a high-end version and
0:39:06then more like the sedan 44 regular folks or something
0:39:10prime prior to Apple watch i would have said one for sure because that's how
0:39:14Apple always drives right there's one iphone there's one ipad here it is this
0:39:19is the ipad and only years down the road are there things like ipad pros and iPad
0:39:25minis and you know low end models with two-year-old at systems-on-chip and
0:39:30high-end models with the latest and greatest only your cetera but without
0:39:34after Apple watch
0:39:36I i think i don't know i don't i don't know that you know maybe Apple why I
0:39:41keep thinking that maybe Apple watch is
0:39:43not that was that not the only reason they did it was a test for the car but
0:39:46that it it lays out the formula for the car where they might do three right
0:39:53Apple car sport right 20,000 25,000 dollars or something like that twenty
0:39:58thirty thousand dollars Apple car
0:40:01$50,000 and the Apple car edition you know for 400,000 quick arm i I'm
0:40:08laughing but part of the reason i say that is that I know that there's enough
0:40:14you know executives at apple or I've been to the apple parking lot there are
0:40:18a lot of really nice cars in in the infinite loop parking lot people who
0:40:22work at Apple have nice cars it's almost like I've and we know like Johnny Ivan
0:40:27and filler and who else um Eddy Cue right he was I thinking on the board of
0:40:35Lamborghini i think yeah yeah yeah so they're obviously car guys there they
0:40:40like their fancy correct yeah so you know how you know how do you know if
0:40:48they're already car guys who like exotic cars how does Apple get into it without
0:40:51making an exact well into to tie it back to what we were talking about earlier
0:40:55you know we're talking about in the context of Hoover like not needing to
0:40:59own a car anymore like if we're talking about let's say it's it's 2020 so it's
0:41:04you know a little less than four years states for years from now for five years
0:41:08now and more people are in the space of what you know sort of you and your wife
0:41:16or debating and me and my wife now live in in let's just say in urban areas at
0:41:21least in in city areas that they feel like they don't need to own a car like
0:41:26is it weird for Apple to be making a car that they would potentially be selling
0:41:30for whatever $50,000 in a world where a decreasing number of people are buying
0:41:37cars that's a great question that's part of why I find this whole topic
0:41:44fascinating because there's so many trends that are moving right there's
0:41:50that that we've talked about him but there's the you know gas to electric
0:41:55there's the self-driving is coming
0:41:58there's and then like you there's this whole shared in a ride-sharing thing
0:42:03where people just a home cars . i think my guess is that ok
0:42:09fewer and fewer people are buying cars but Apple can enter and if you're going
0:42:12to buy a car they're gonna they're gonna have a compelling right all right you
0:42:17know that it's easy to say sure look fewer people are buying cars but it's
0:42:21you know people also said fewer people are buying launches fewer people where
0:42:25watch than ever before that's true that's good . because i was gonna I was
0:42:29gonna say like pcs for people are buying pcs right but that mac is still doing
0:42:33well relatively speaking but would they enter that world now you know knowing
0:42:38its overall shrinking world and that this would say they wouldn't but it's
0:42:42it's a calculation you have to make yeah I i totally I think so but i just think
0:42:48that the market for cars is so big that so many you know there are so many car
0:42:53companies and so many you know it's just so much money in the industry overall
0:42:57that even if its shrinks you know significantly that a apple can take a
0:43:03sizable chunk of the profitable end of that market and it still is right and
0:43:08it's a potential you know talking going back to the what is the next iphone it's
0:43:12a one of the potential things that could actually match the iphone like I think
0:43:16we're all I think everyone i would assume you're an agreement now like and
0:43:20and always have been but like that even at the AA the best-case scenario for
0:43:26Apple watch it cannot match what the iphone did just because of the whole
0:43:31subsidy model you know and a way that that the world just worked back then in
0:43:37the watch has nothing like that even if Apple sells more of them overall they're
0:43:42not going to make as much money off of it because it's just a different
0:43:45business right there's no way even no matter how popular Apple watch because
0:43:50it's not going to sell in the quantity that iphone does and each one they do
0:43:56sell is going to sell for at least half the price if not even less than half the
0:44:01price of of the iphone to the right because almost everybody gets the sport
0:44:05model
0:44:06which is a mistake guys with a lower price product it's a lower price which
0:44:10one did you advise know I should've bought a sport i bought the the regular
0:44:14apple watch not the addition i bought the the regular one and I just like I
0:44:17don't know why I did that I did that because I thought it would be slightly
0:44:20different or whatever but it definitely should have gotten the sport anyway
0:44:22that's it aside
0:44:24yeah i've mentioned i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i have the spot
0:44:29i'm actually wearing it today i have the the regular one with the space black and
0:44:33I do like a link style bracelet and it is a wonderful breaking out and it's
0:44:37very comfortable but I'm i really think that the sport models are superior just
0:44:42because the taptic engine works better
0:44:44yeah and it wasn't supposed to have a slightly better screen i was a remember
0:44:47like something slightly better huh
0:44:50it's the the display isn't any better but the surface of the display on that
0:44:56spun on the regular apple watches sapphire that's right other one is
0:45:00whatever I on my hood class you know so it's does pick up fine scratches got it
0:45:05but I've looked at my son's my son worse as an Apple watch from a live i guess
0:45:10around a year and where is it a lot and you know he's a twelve-year-old kid and
0:45:15he's you know it's not like he's taking good care but I've looked at the screen
0:45:18and it does have fine scratches but it's no different than any other you know nan
0:45:22sapphire coded watch that I've worn it yeah you know and when you actually
0:45:26looking at the displayed on the scratches argued you can't see them you
0:45:29have to do the thing where you turn it display off and kinda find a glare a
0:45:33glaring light source to source right spot the scratch right
0:45:37yes so but anyway the so yeah most people are buying the cheaper version
0:45:43and so the car you know high-end cars are one of the few things that could
0:45:52produce the types of revenues that would match iphone potentially a massive scale
0:45:57right or it at least be like the same class of plan right
0:46:03I don't you know I mean like so maybe the iphone is still Jupiter but you know
0:46:06it's still going to you know the car potentially is another you know gas
0:46:10giant could be like Neptune or something
0:46:12as opposed to the apple watch is really just like another Venus or Mars or
0:46:17something
0:46:18yes I gets a planet it's running on its not Pluto it's a real planet but it's
0:46:24come on you can't compare to Jupiter but the car could be just because the car
0:46:28with self just you know it
0:46:31third eat you know it could easily sell for thirty thousand dollars quite frank
0:46:35you know let's example so it's probably more so I know you want to talk about
0:46:40the Peter till thing too as well and and we can get to that but before we're
0:46:44still on the top example the one thing that I've been thinking about a lot
0:46:47recently is the whole Alexa and you know they're the rumors now I think the
0:46:54information have to report the other day that apple would be working on a
0:46:56potential echo competitor and of course google announced their home thing at i/o
0:47:03which is the echo competitor and sort of i'm interested in your take on on that
0:47:08like I think that up at a high level you know we went back and forth and Twitter
0:47:12a little bit one night and I think you know my my perspective on it which is
0:47:15that the well hold your thought your target because that was already in my
0:47:21list of topics you want to talk to John and I would we could do a whole segment
0:47:24so let me take a break and thank another sponsor thank our good friends at
0:47:27audible audible.com has more than 250,000 audiobooks and spoken word audio
0:47:37products you can get a 30-day free trial at audible.com / talk show just go to
0:47:43audible.com / talk show 30 days you don't pay anything you can listen to all
0:47:48this stuff it's absolutely amazing that the size of the library that they have
0:47:53you can listen to these audio books from virtually any genre and you can do it
0:47:57anytime anywhere and you can play them on your phone playing on your tablet
0:48:01playing on the computer if you have a kindle fire or one of the modern you
0:48:06know Kendall see you know like that you can play it on that you can even play it
0:48:10on your good old-fashioned ipod which is really where audible got started spot
0:48:14sponsoring podcast was you download the stuff and just stick them on your ipod
0:48:18and listen to audio books are great for flights road trips your daily commute
0:48:24really and
0:48:26think the reason inaudible keeps coming back to sponsor this show and other
0:48:29podcasts is that if you're listening to me read this
0:48:32sponsored blurb that means you like listening to spoken audio content and if
0:48:37you find yourself craving more auto audible.com you're not going to you know
0:48:43nobody has the commute long enough to listen to all those stuff that audible
0:48:48as so go there and check it out
0:48:5130 day free trial audible.com / talk show my thanks to audible for their
0:48:57continued sponsorship of the show you quickly before we go into a collection
0:49:03why not you brought up the summit's podcast earlier i was a scary always
0:49:06curious if you ever thought about doing what he does when he does is sponsor
0:49:10reads and plays like I think he played second Tupac's or whatever in the
0:49:13background but do you think about you know like a way to sort of I don't know
0:49:18person it differently than their the rest of the show i have is funny it I
0:49:25it's very funny that you would bring that up because two reasons that i have
0:49:30thought about that is a bill simmons podcast which now that with this whole
0:49:34ring thing there's more of them and I've been listening to them and I've noticed
0:49:37that and i like i like i really like his reads too i think he does a great job at
0:49:43it it makes me want to up my game on making sure that the the reeds are
0:49:48engaging like that's really one of the things i feel like i feel like when i do
0:49:52the show
0:49:53I'm just having fun talking to people who i like talking about and my job is
0:49:57doing the sponsor reads in a way that makes people not want to skip yep and
0:50:01how can i do that would i would it take from me if I were listening to the talk
0:50:05show to not want to skip this ad and I never skip those sentences so I really
0:50:10and it inspires me but I've noticed that he plays that the musical yeah and then
0:50:15that the the gang on accidental tech podcast has started they've been it's
0:50:19almost like an in-joke where they haven't been playing music behind the
0:50:23reeds but they've been they've added little of sounds but to start it and
0:50:29close them
0:50:30ok so people to give people an indication of like this is this is now
0:50:34you know this latter brake arm thinking and you know and it's
0:50:39monitoring and in it and when it's over it's like done done and then it's like
0:50:42your back and and i have to mention because they did it Marco Arment on ATP
0:50:47said that his inspiration for starting to do that when he had its the show is
0:50:51the absolutely great podcast which I've mentioned before hello internet with the
0:50:56ctp crepes
0:50:58cgpgrey and the other guy when so I've listened to simmons podcast for a long
0:51:07time you know dating dating back well to like the earlier the rat probably near
0:51:11here when he started at ESPN and I think because originally they would play I
0:51:17think they would play like can dads and they still do this on many ESPN podcast
0:51:22and so he slowly evolved into the more of the the reed statute that you here
0:51:27now and certainly what you do and everything one of the reasons why I
0:51:30think like you you like him and I like them too is because he was so bad at it
0:51:35at first like it's almost like arm when someone told him that you know well you
0:51:41gotta do you gotta like actually talk about it that's what resonates with sort
0:51:44of podcast listeners and so you know if you're just like you're having a
0:51:48conversation then all of a sudden dive into a spiel about you know whatever the
0:51:52the advertiser is doing it it uh it comes across much better than sort of a
0:51:56canned recording of whatever that advertiser is saying and so first he was
0:52:02so bad at it and I think he's evolved over time and almost like plays on like
0:52:07being bad at it it because it's not so bad anymore but it's like it's just
0:52:12natural right it's like the way that he would talk about it and I think you
0:52:15honestly think you do a good job of it as well but the only thing is his just
0:52:20feels like more raw that's that's what it is yet
0:52:23yeah out i have to add it
0:52:26Brady Haran is the other co-host of of hello internet but they did they date
0:52:32they do the same thing with the one-percent I don't have to think about
0:52:34it I'm not set in my ways on this okay so Cirie so they're so the information
0:52:41has scooped the other day that Apple is planning both a Serie A pi/4 developers
0:52:48to extend its eerie and an echo like standalone device
0:52:53which is like the also competitive with the upcoming google home right arm so i
0:53:02have had a amazon echo i always get confused whether she called alexa
0:53:08correctly ya go
0:53:10it uses Alexa is the the persona obviously but it's also how you address
0:53:16it Yusei right it's a letter it was a temperature branding issue i think they
0:53:22just called alexa honestly but anyway so I've had one for several months now
0:53:26about a quarter and use definitely use it daily when i'm home and let the
0:53:32lesson on the road of course and him slowly but surely finding new use cases
0:53:39for it you know it started as sort of novelty of course just you know what's
0:53:43the weather and and whatever
0:53:45now i use it almost daily to to sort of read me the latest news which is sort of
0:53:50another obvious one but it's sort of a nice weight just a when you when you get
0:53:55up in the morning just like Alexa what's latest news and it will just start doing
0:53:58it like there's no there's no fun to unlock there's no button to push you
0:54:05just speak out loud that's what you want my wife uses it all the time when she's
0:54:09cooking to say and it's like a constant thing it's almost like a like a and
0:54:14orchestrated event of her cooking and with the election the kitchen saying
0:54:19like Alexis set a timer for two minutes then two minutes goes by it goes off
0:54:22alexa off
0:54:23Alexis set a timer for five minutes and it's like this whole thing that just
0:54:27goes on everybody know every night that she's cooking and it's a it's really a
0:54:31good device and i was skeptical of it when i first heard about it because it
0:54:36seemed ridiculous right it's a standalone expensive thing that does a
0:54:42lot of what you can already do with Cirie and Cortana and you know what our
0:54:47google now and some of the other things but in using it it's useful
0:54:55yeah and there's a certain like the the kitchen scenario that cooking and
0:54:59cooking in the kitchen scenario is almost ideal for I have 12 i just got it
0:55:04like three weeks ago and and i'm not using it that much but I i think one of
0:55:11the reasons you have any of the smart home stuff like olives and stuff like
0:55:15that I don't have anything like that yet now
0:55:17not that I think we do have like 10 light bulbs burn out that we use and we
0:55:21don't have that like a nest or anything like that currently installed right but
0:55:24but for the cooking stuff so I know people you know people don't use their
0:55:28phones stuff like that and I know definitely people use like smartwatches
0:55:34like your Apple watch or whatever the SmartWatch to do that stuff too but the
0:55:38thing with echo is it's completely hands-free so you don't have to push a
0:55:44button on the watch or fish your phone out of your pocket or on you know I know
0:55:49your phone i guess if you you know if you have a new iphone you could if you
0:55:52have it plugged in you can fry the hey you know the name of I try to avoid it's
0:55:57one of the beep it but sorry but you know it works even if not plug-in like
0:56:04this is a big thing that people always just now that's that you think you have
0:56:08to have a new one for now that right that's a new feature right if you have
0:56:11like iphone success
0:56:12it just seems though that echo is more reliable like you can really count on it
0:56:20yeah it's if to get to make sure that you did it it it's giving you the timer
0:56:25that you just told I I still why I i go back and forth on this but told her to
0:56:31write right but I struggle I really struggle with the pronoun for these
0:56:35things i tend to use her with Cirie and it's even weirder because i know that in
0:56:39some countries it defaults to a male voice that's right yeah yeah seduce
0:56:44should use it and they have a whole it's a very strange dynamic that I think will
0:56:49never be fully sorted out but yes you bring up like the I don't even hesitate
0:56:56hesitate to call it accuracy because I'm not a hundred percent sure that like
0:57:00Alexa is more accurate than say Siri it seems that way but
0:57:07is more reliable right like and I think it's because it's a combination of
0:57:11things but one of the things is that you know when you set up Siri you have to
0:57:16set it up by like saying hey I i also want to set up all my devices
0:57:20uh you know the word hey she who shall not be named and so you have to do that
0:57:27a few times right and so it's like Apple obviously thought that that's like a
0:57:31good way to make it sort of personalized to you and so someone else can't
0:57:35necessarily set it off but that is also a limiting factor it seems like it and
0:57:41makes it less reliable and so
0:57:44amazon just deciding not to do with that way and just leaving it open so anyone
0:57:48can trigger it you know ends up being I think a smarter implementation at least
0:57:53for now how to do that
0:57:54yeah and anecdotally I've read this and and I've had since I've started talking
0:58:00about this and you know heard from people on Twitter and an email sending
0:58:03me that a lot i've heard of most numerous times that people with young
0:58:08kids their kids can use the echo really reliably and they have no luck at all
0:58:15with Siri Siri really doesn't series speech recognition really isn't good
0:58:19with kids and it's it's funny because would it
0:58:23it's like you know it you know that kids don't speak as our I don't even know
0:58:29what the word is are there not as articulate their they don't enunciate as
0:58:32crisply as adults right it's like but you don't you tend to think of it as
0:58:36well that's just how kids talk but its its seemingly from a speech recognition
0:58:40standpoint it's there just harder to understand whereas humans are so good
0:58:44that we don't really think of kids being harder to understand we just think of
0:58:48them as sounding as kids because I are our natural linguistic abilities are so
0:58:53good that we we just blow right through the way that they mispronounce words
0:58:58yeah as in so the kids thing is interesting also because before i got a
0:59:04echo everyone one of the main themes that coming up as I kids love it and I
0:59:10don't have kids at you have a son like this your son use it like no not really
0:59:13he just he studied I he kind of thinks it's pointless because but there's
0:59:19nothing he really wants to know from it that we have hooked up yeah we have on
0:59:24she did have fun is the family the one one or two nite playing music and
0:59:27calling out you know and then it's it's funny because it's like if there's a
0:59:31song on and any one of the three of us doesn't like it you can tell Alexa to
0:59:35stop and go play something else
0:59:37yeah and I think that that's I think that's been stated i don't know if it's
0:59:40by amazon or not that that's one of the main use cases of course is playing
0:59:45playing the music and it's um yeah it's pretty I it's a seamless way to you know
0:59:51do
0:59:53hey Alexa and said hey you don't have to say hey force alexa play you know what
0:59:59this the state
0:59:59this the state
1:00:00on pandora or whatever and you can hook up obviously amazon music you can hook
1:00:05up Pandora you can't hook up Apple music right now right so and so there's I
1:00:13don't expect apple to get on that quickly
1:00:16yeah now uh I don't care but so that's one big use case so the other thing is
1:00:22it obviously has a decent speaker but it's not great it's not like a so no sir
1:00:27or something like that and you can hook up because we also got that . thing you
1:00:31know the . yes smaller one is an aside the one thing I loved about that rollout
1:00:35was the fact that in order to first order a . you actually had to order it
1:00:40through the echo you had to say like uh alexa order me a . and I knew what I
1:00:45knew what it was I mean my wife actually did it and within three minutes or
1:00:49whatever it confirms and so we had a weird . ordered income and shipping to
1:00:53our house and we got inventory and work beautifully and you couldn't order it on
1:00:56the website at least $PERCENT of the time when they were when they first sort
1:00:59of rolled that out so that was the sort of fascinating i don't think you can now
1:01:03I mean I just searched amazon Franco don't see it go . let me see
1:01:07so you know wha where they do have it you can get it you can get a code . 489
1:01:13dollars on amazon
1:01:15um you know it's hilarious now so I just was giving that whole spiel and I sort
1:01:23of god I just triggered Alexa and she's now playing music in my bedroom so I'm
1:01:28in my office right now 11 room down from the bedroom i all the sudden heard this
1:01:34music and I'm like is my wife home did you start playing music cuz I thought I
1:01:38heard a voice it was lexa and it was Alexis saying now playing whatever and
1:01:42so that's just music playing in the bedroom right now I stand corrected so
1:01:45there is a webpage on amazon for the echo . but it says X available
1:01:50exclusively from alexa code is available in limited quantities and exclusively
1:01:54for prime members through alexboys shopping so i think that's that's
1:01:58ingenious because it obviously makes it so that first and foremost only sort of
1:02:04hardcore hardcore users are going to to be able to get it and get it that way
1:02:08and people who already understand right be they have to have Alexa neco so
1:02:13right to be able to do it so it doesn't need like you know some sort of new
1:02:17learning curve of a sudden because you should already know how to use it based
1:02:20on that
1:02:21yeah i think the music playing is clearly you know the the end when this
1:02:26rumor from the information came out that Apple's to a device like this it in the
1:02:32works and that they've been working on it for quite a while a bunch of people
1:02:36so why why I have my phone with me everywhere I go you know if I'm gonna
1:02:41use Siri why do I need why wouldn't world I want another device
1:02:45I don't know what else they have planned for I don't know what other home
1:02:47integration you know home kit type features they might have in mind for
1:02:51what kind of a hub it might be for your entire home but the speaker alone makes
1:02:56sense for Apple to do just because music is still such a big part of what they
1:03:01want to be known for
1:03:03yep yeah and I'm sort of surprised that you know they were i know that you know
1:03:08they're they're almost never the first mover in these types of things but I'm
1:03:11sort of surprised that some sort of combination of things didn't lead them
1:03:17down this path earlier whether it be the airport express or apple TV as like a
1:03:26basically the way to do this like they're all those rumors remember that
1:03:29Apple TV was going to be the hub of their of their whole home initiative and
1:03:34maybe that's still ends up being the case but like that was the whole thing
1:03:37about like why is it running iOS and of course apps but also maybe you know the
1:03:41the home kit stuff and yeah i'm sort of just a little surprised that they didn't
1:03:47make a all-in-one type device and especially like knowing you know that
1:03:54the popular it's things like Sonos in the end they're obviously they had to
1:03:58work with us to get Apple music is one of the first things on there but maybe
1:04:02it was I think you made the joke the other day maybe it was the ipod
1:04:07high-five thing that started to persuade them from doing that because that was
1:04:11obviously a disaster
1:04:13that's what i wanted to call it i wanted the college Syria have the trademark
1:04:17yeah so
1:04:18but yeah it seems like a I think the way someone was saying this the other day
1:04:26and Twitter that it's great that we have like Alexa and and it's cool that you
1:04:33can sort of hook it up to sonos it's a pain honestly because you have to do it
1:04:36through like the back of the device and through a cable it's not it's not
1:04:40seamless at all and now we have things like 0 and like you know the new the
1:04:44newfangled routers that are out like it seems like someone should combine all of
1:04:48that into one thing right
1:04:50yes i think so but you run into I've thought about this right you it's like
1:04:58it seems like a big a big but like it just thinking about my house now like
1:05:04the cable comes in in the living room and it's sort of like that's where the
1:05:12the router needs to be i mean i right
1:05:15guess I could you know I i I'd have to like wire the house with internet our
1:05:19Ethernet or something or get the cable company to come out and put another
1:05:25cable connector somewhere else if I wanted it to be in the kitchen you know
1:05:32because I Maxwell music to play you know what I mean it's like I don't know I'm
1:05:36not cleared or III understand yes so that's like it that's one issue but sort
1:05:42of i don't know if you've had a chance to play around with like things like the
1:05:45euro and there's some other ones coming out that are you know these these
1:05:47newfangled routers that that allow you to better spread internet over your
1:05:52entire house I always it's better I have a box downstairs
1:05:56that's full of euro kit and it's still a oxide it just came the other day and I
1:06:01haven't had a chance to look at it so it on my radar and i'm going to set it up
1:06:04but yeah you should I mean we have we have one set up now and it's great it's
1:06:10a it's surprisingly great how well it works compared to what I previously just
1:06:16had a an airport extreme both it a bit extreme and then I'd like an express and
1:06:21I had like things like doing bridging and you know trying to get good service
1:06:25in my in the bedroom and then in the office and nothing has worked as well as
1:06:30a0 thing
1:06:31and so I wonder if sort of this this device things that we're talking about
1:06:37if they don't do
1:06:39yeah you have the main hub in the living room that's that's sort of connected to
1:06:43the still necessary for whatever reason cable modem and then everything else is
1:06:47like a satellite version sort of like the deco . right it's like a smaller
1:06:51version of it so no matter what room you're in your cups you're covered by
1:06:55it's sort of like what you have with sonos now for people who have sonos in
1:06:59multiple rooms you know they it wirelessly connect to it you can do
1:07:04wired of course but most people I think to the wireless version and so so some
1:07:09device it's like a combination of all these things so you have the speaker you
1:07:13have the voice assistant type thing and and you have your Wi-Fi all in one thing
1:07:20I mean that seems like we're all this should go but I i would imagine it'll
1:07:24take awhile for for someone to actually connect that all together to be able to
1:07:27work well yeah and it's just you know Apple has very you know right at the
1:07:32forefront of Wi-Fi you know i have been making base stations or whatever you
1:07:36want to call them you know the thing that great Wi-Fi in your house
1:07:40I mean apples been doing it emanate they were one of the first companies to
1:07:44really go public with it remember the shoulder demo indeed he just jumped onto
1:07:49of like a mattress
1:07:52yeah it was actually to prove that the ibook was getting the internet over the
1:07:58answer i was like her to 410 and like phil schiller actually performed a stunt
1:08:02on states like he take off a 10 foot high thing under like a padded landing
1:08:09thing and then showed that the that the ibook was still getting internet so
1:08:13apples been doing that for a long time I think that at this point it's it just
1:08:17seems like it's too fiddly especially for a house compared you know of an
1:08:21apartment you know it's easy to fill it with with your Wi-Fi but you know even
1:08:26here we haven't set up pretty good right now we just have the airport extreme I
1:08:30don't have any of the satellite devices like i used to have and it you know goes
1:08:35up one floor to my office and it's pretty good and it goes up two floors to
1:08:41our bedroom and
1:08:43good enough good enough that it doesn't make me want to get it
1:08:47another thing but even one floor down in our garage it's gone so like it's like
1:08:52when you get in the car
1:08:54it's like one floor down from where the router is and you want to update
1:08:57something on your phone quick it's like sometimes you have to like to do the
1:09:01fiddly thing when you turn off Wi-Fi because it's yeah that yeah yeah you
1:09:07should try 20 thing I think you like all I'm doing is like I told you it's down
1:09:11hit in the house so it's it's a sure thing that I will that I will try
1:09:14yeah so I don't know maybe that's that's what happens going with and I can't help
1:09:19but think that if if the information report is correct that they've been
1:09:22working on this device for quite a while
1:09:24I mean like according to the information years it kid
1:09:28it can't just be a speaker that listens for Siri because they that have you know
1:09:33if it's taken Apple years to do a speaker that listens for Siri that's
1:09:38that's a problem it has to be a little bit more ambitious than that in terms of
1:09:42serving as some kind of you know
1:09:44hey you don't have to buy these six different things you can just buy this
1:09:47plug this thing in and then you're set
1:09:50well and you brought it up I mean the importance of music certainly to apple
1:09:53and you know they obviously know the popularity of something like Sonos n it
1:09:59do you think then it would be just as predicated right being a great speaker
1:10:04sort of a sonos competitor with Siri built-in is that that may be what they
1:10:08would do
1:10:09maybe that's what I you know and and what they launched it as a family of
1:10:13devices at the beginning so that you can you know put them throughout your house
1:10:18I mean that seems to be one area that and I obviously amazon is is working on
1:10:24it as a solution because they have these . devices that are meant to be satellite
1:10:29devices and I know where to go home
1:10:31people asked when they announced it at i/o last week what if you have two of
1:10:35these things and they're like well we're working on that will get back right hard
1:10:39problem it
1:10:40yes and the amazon so the . like so in general I think the consensus is the
1:10:46echo speaker is ok it's it's it's good enough you know for for casual listening
1:10:51or whatever and the . one is considered to be much more subparts obviously much
1:10:55smaller it's just a tiny little thing
1:10:57that's why it has sort of the output to be able to hook it into a speaker and
1:11:00that's what they suggest you do actually
1:11:02so I wouldn't like if I rapel i would imagine that the way to do it is just
1:11:07what we were talking about to do like a really great speaker like a SonoSite
1:11:12speaker with the Serie capability built-in and I think that would be a
1:11:17great device for a lot of people i don't know how much that would cost you know
1:11:21and like it do they run the risk of it being another hifi like device
1:11:26yeah that's just sort of like an each product that's that's interesting to a
1:11:29few people i think not i think it's a lot more interesting to do it now
1:11:33especially with everything we just talked about with alexa but I don't know
1:11:37with a high-five they've really it it was I mean what I know for a fact that
1:11:44Steve Jobs was a huge fan of the hifi he really was and I mean I you know
1:11:48obviously he's willing to you know you know if it wasn't selling it wasn't
1:11:53selling even if he liked it so it wasn't like kept it around just because he
1:11:56liked it but I know he liked it and and they really put I was what was before I
1:12:00was regularly attending their press events and I was not at the at the intro
1:12:04event for it but i remember reading about it and they really went all out
1:12:07and they set up I Jason Snell was there and he was talking about a few weeks ago
1:12:11when he was on the show that the right there in like the upstairs area where
1:12:17they do the press briefings that the press events above the hall they brought
1:12:21in you know they made like an ikea almost like when they made a whole bunch
1:12:26of like living rooms you know better and of course you know like Apple they made
1:12:29them they were really nice you know they made all these laid like furnish the
1:12:33whole place is like an apartment complex and then had you know individual people
1:12:36you come in and it wasn't just like a hit play and listen to a few seconds
1:12:40they wanted you to like relax sit on the couch pretend you live here and listen
1:12:44to this everybody drink right and they really push like hate doesn't this sound
1:12:48amazing like they really really wanted to make that like I mean I i had i
1:12:54didn't buy one so i don't know i don't know how good it sounded but Apple at
1:12:58least really went all out at least in terms of marketing is pitching it is
1:13:01being high quality audio so I think that's one area where they could
1:13:04definitely get a leg up on echoes echo it's good it's not bad it's just you
1:13:08know good enough for like a speaker in your
1:13:11kitchen to play music but it's not great and so that plus like a great speaker +
1:13:17what what you know you mentioned from the information report with the Serie
1:13:22api's which obviously everyone's been clamoring for sincere II came out so
1:13:27that plus the ability to do much more than what up the echo can do because the
1:13:32echo has an API obviously and a lot of people are playing around with them
1:13:36doing some interesting things that like we mentioned over you know you can call
1:13:39an uber from it right now and but it does feel like a it's it's a little bit
1:13:46wonky it's a little bit and that wonky necessarily it's just I'm sure you use
1:13:52the app the app is awful for ya work the for the echo and it's hard to it would
1:13:59be hard for anyone like even it's even hard for me to figure out how exactly to
1:14:03to find things to install and what to install and it looks . awful so Apple
1:14:08will obviously do a better job of that and so it's not a question of like is it
1:14:13is it leaps and bounds better than what Amazon can do right now if if those
1:14:19api's are good enough
1:14:20yeah and I I really i'm really curious what form these api's come in in terms
1:14:28of like it I i can only presume that it'll be apps
1:14:36somehow I guess apps on your iphone or your iOS device but yes there do need to
1:14:43have it you need to have that app installed in order to have it bc reread
1:14:49e right
1:14:50what's that well yeah and if it's on multiple devices like how how does your
1:14:56serious if it's taking advantage of of a third party extension whatever you want
1:15:03to call it like let's just say let's just you know what we've been talking
1:15:06about them that's just a youtuber right let's say that through an extension
1:15:10you're gonna you're gonna allow Siri to hail you a nuber do you have to install
1:15:18it on all of your devices like address you would if it's through an app it but
1:15:22then how did it how would it get too
1:15:24the standalone device is I I yeah that's weird
1:15:29that's a good question because like it seems like it's an either/or thing right
1:15:33like either you would need it installed on all your devices that have hooked up
1:15:39to your seer like to your hey serious stuff or you would only do it on one so
1:15:44it doesn't get confused because like say you have uber installed on that they
1:15:47don't have an ipad version but you can still obviously install it or not the
1:15:50states to say you had it on an iPad and your iphone and then you summoned the
1:15:56uber via siri-like which 1i I guess it opens but both versions I well I mean it
1:16:03doesn't matter because on the back end it if presuming you were you were tied
1:16:07into the same account the same uber account when you open the app it should
1:16:11know they should be synced right in the back end so i guess it doesn't really
1:16:14matter but there's there's like a lot of more complicated issues like it the
1:16:21further you go down with that like which which version of the app that's running
1:16:25on which device are you something right
1:16:29I it's I so I'm don't know
1:16:32so my guess my best guess is to compare it to apple watch and so let's say they
1:16:39open up this serious DK then the uber app on your iOS device could have the
1:16:46Serie extension and then only on the iOS devices that have the latest version of
1:16:52the you brap would the Siri integration work but then also maybe you developers
1:16:59would be able to create like a hifi app and just like the way that it will say
1:17:06like oh there's an Apple watch app that you can install that there would be like
1:17:14if you have that the Serie hifi yeah you would have a serious hifi app on your
1:17:19phone and then you'd go just like you go to the Apple watch app to install an app
1:17:23on your watch you go to the hifi app to install the extension on your tie the
1:17:29that we're getting pretty complicated right i think i see and it's it makes
1:17:34sense to me like that's exactly what i think is
1:17:37it this makes sense to me technically because i can draw a little arrows for
1:17:41all the devices and i see ok so you download it to your phone and from your
1:17:45phone you can install it on your watch and you can install it on the thing but
1:17:48then it seems to me like you're doing an awful lot of fiddly system administrator
1:17:52type stuff with those prices
1:17:54yeah and so is there better like is it just feel the app and now apps require
1:17:59like I don't know some sort of knew I cloud instance that it that's like
1:18:04handling it right and that's exactly is the other that it you know just erase
1:18:09everything that I just speculate about is there going to be some kind of way
1:18:12that a developer would be able to have like an iCloud instance of this API and
1:18:16end it and that's a total new territory for apple like that's unlike that
1:18:23anything i can think of that Apple's ever done
1:18:26yeah yeah I've not I don't know but it's good that they're I think it's smart of
1:18:33course that they're playing in the space smart that google is as well like all
1:18:37these guys are pouring so much so many resources into these assistants and you
1:18:44know that the whole day I aspect obviously marcos post about apple and AI
1:18:49and stuff a unit that they need to be able to get enough data to constantly
1:18:57improve these things and it's almost like table stakes it seems like it's
1:19:02going to be now that you need to have the home version of whatever the
1:19:05assistant thing is to be able to to keep up and remain on par with all the other
1:19:10competitors
1:19:11yeah one of the things i was thinking about it in light of Marcos post the
1:19:17other day about it is I was trying to think because I didn't agree with him
1:19:22fully
1:19:23I I it was a great post and AG the ways that i disagree it's just all you know
1:19:28it's not like Marcos dominant like no Marco smart and I actually see the logic
1:19:33of what he's saying but something doesn't sit right with me and then I
1:19:35thought about like social networking and social networking is obviously a huge
1:19:40part of the whole industry that we talked about
1:19:43I mean facebook is a giant company now and and super influential I mean it's
1:19:48did you know literally
1:19:50that's scandals in the last few weeks or a controversy i should say about the
1:19:55weather or not
1:19:57facebook is single-handedly skewing political news and in read us a hugely
1:20:03influential instagram is a huge success
1:20:08twitter we do know that Twitter's twitter i love it but it's you know it
1:20:14is what it is but it certainly is if I don't want to go down the route of
1:20:19talking about Twitter's a business but it's culturally though its influences
1:20:23undeniable i always say like the one thing about Twitter they eat it's just
1:20:27stunning how everytime i watch TV news and somebody comes on it they tell you
1:20:32what their twitter handle is however it's it's well and if you watch ESPN at
1:20:36all it's like yeah it's a significant percentage of ESPN via reporting via
1:20:40talking about tweets it's crazy
1:20:42yeah yes pngs sports in the twitters influence in the sports world alone is
1:20:46astounding and it's it's just crazy especially as we go down the path of the
1:20:50NBA playoffs and stuff its I don't I think well and now major league baseball
1:20:55is a ton of Twitter to so now it's it's just everywhere in sports
1:20:58Apple has no real social networking and they've even tried twice they had ping
1:21:05and then last year the I don't remember what it's called the middle tab of Apple
1:21:11music it right-click the thing that's going away right and I hasn't taken off
1:21:16hasn't really you know it never gain a foothold but so what
1:21:19Apple has it in a second level way sort of thrived on social networking because
1:21:26people use their iphones to facebook and to Instagram and sweet and yeah it's you
1:21:34know it's it's only made the the rise of social networking largely coincides with
1:21:39the rise of the iphone and it's a big part of why i think that there's a real
1:21:44difference that i was thinking about it and the the voice assistance aren't like
1:21:48that because the voice assistance to be useful have to be built into the system
1:21:52like there is a court Anna app there is the google app has all of the googles
1:21:58assistant type stuff you know the the startups that are in this space have
1:22:05apps i can't remember that some of their names but you know like yeah it was like
1:22:10operator outfit with vizio that it will be there by descendant of the Syrian
1:22:16people yeah right yeah so you can do that but thats it thats that that
1:22:21doesn't that doesn't make it doesn't work like that you can't say go to
1:22:24launch an app and then do it it doesn't work like that has to be built into the
1:22:28system so the one outside the bounds though which would be interested in your
1:22:32thoughts on then is the facebook Messenger one facebook and it's called
1:22:36right so that Facebook obviously famously does not have a phone they run
1:22:41on you know other people's devices but they they do
1:22:45by most accounts have some of the foremost experts in AI working at
1:22:50facebook but they so like how do you square that like where do you think that
1:22:54they where does that come into play because you think like they're they're
1:22:58going after AI they think they're going to be a leader in whatever comes of AI
1:23:02and certainly these assistant things are are a big part of that at least right
1:23:06now and Facebook am is is sort of one of the frontrunners right now for that but
1:23:12they don't have the system-level integration haha it's a good question on
1:23:18it could just be you know to it you know to do the AI while you're in there apps
1:23:23like and Facebook's advantage is and i say this is someone who doesn't use
1:23:30facebook but people you know it's part of what makes them so valuable is that
1:23:34you know two people spend out now I'll awful lot of people spend an awful lot
1:23:38of time in facebook so they already have them there so they they're they're
1:23:42almost are they almost are like the run system
1:23:46yeah that's true that if you're already there
1:23:49you're in the area book on your phone or you know well from I think the phone is
1:23:53probably number one now so you're in facebook you're on your phone any kind
1:23:56of AI features that they can offer you it you're already there so yeah it for
1:24:02that or that's it
1:24:04the opportunity good way to frame and I think it's almost like so the browser on
1:24:10a on a pc or
1:24:12Mac is not you know sort of politics while they are baked into the system it
1:24:18is a separate application that you're running all the time everyone's always
1:24:21running a browser right and that like facebook on the phone
1:24:24yep is sort of the bracket that's been said before of course but it is in that
1:24:28context like animating the same thing they even helpfully cheat and use the
1:24:32audio api to make sure they're literally running on your phone all the time it's
1:24:36different i keed i keed likely that brings to mind another one of the topics
1:24:44in this space that I want to talk about and I've seen an awful lot of people
1:24:47bring this up so one of the other rumors it's separate from the information
1:24:50report but there's also a rumor that has come out
1:24:53I know macrumors had it i don't know if it was their original i think it was
1:24:56think it was their original scoop that the next version of mac OS is going to
1:25:01have Siri built-in yes and a lot of people read that and the question i got
1:25:07is why do I have to talk to Siri why can't i just type like spotlight and
1:25:12then therefore what we maybe that's the answer may be that spotlight feature
1:25:16goes away and it's replaced by Cirie and you can either talk to it or type
1:25:21yeah that's a good that's a good question i think that that you know
1:25:28thinking about it for a few seconds just how i think that that's probably the way
1:25:32they should do it I i think it's a little weird like court they've
1:25:35microsoft is is done this to with Cortana I get a little weird to have
1:25:39those things on the desktop in this ain't trying to fit them into the same
1:25:44context as they exist right now on mobile devices because you just use a
1:25:49desktop and laptop whatever traditional computer differently and you're right
1:25:55like a lot of it is text-based input it's not vocal which sort of ties back
1:26:01to the whole thing of why I also think alexis is important because there is no
1:26:06way to interface that besides voice but you know that's that there's a different
1:26:10route to go down but uh but yes so I think that Siri is a text-based thing is
1:26:16interesting and that's also like going to facebook em right now it is mainly
1:26:19texts all chat based alright like you
1:26:22key so they're doing it the opposite way of what Cirie and alexa and Cortana and
1:26:29the google thing I guess is a hybrid right because you can talk to it or it
1:26:34can just be I mean the main interfaces like to say okay google and then it a
1:26:40bit it loads basically it's doing a search query so that's I guess the
1:26:46closest thing to that and that would be apple if they did do serie for mac OS
1:26:51doing it with the text thing would be I guess most comparable to that maybe want
1:26:58you know there's a trick that I just learned recently i didn't know this but
1:27:02if you do invoke Siri on your iPhone and she hears you wrong you can on that
1:27:12result screen you pull down on it and to end it shows you what Siri thought you
1:27:18said and done if you tap on that you can edit that text / really i didn't know
1:27:23that I I didn't know it either i just learned it in the last week or two from
1:27:26someone on Twitter in the midst of talking about all of this i think it was
1:27:29enough in the context of that discussion of why can't you just enter text and
1:27:35another is why can't you invoke Cirie and then pull down or something to bring
1:27:38up a text field and just type your query to Syria because there are there are
1:27:42certain contexts where you can't write what if you're in a quiet area yeah
1:27:46right
1:27:47huh yeah I had no idea about that so you can edit text after you've made your
1:27:53vocal query to Siri you can edit it as decks but you can't just type it as test
1:27:58there's no that's so you should if you want to use that feature you just speak
1:28:02gibberish to Siri and then just whisper some quick to brush to invoke the Texas
1:28:07mode anyway interesting trick I thought yeah then there was there the report I
1:28:15think it was not it was German right saying that there that there was an
1:28:20error maybe was a ripoff of another report or something but i know that
1:28:239to5 mac wrote about it that the new macbook pro conceivably coming out at
1:28:30the end of the year would have the dislike OLEDs uh
1:28:35strip and you know one of the reasons why that might make sense is because
1:28:39then you could have a serious button without having to have like a physical
1:28:42serie button
1:28:43mm ah yeah i saw that rumor and I don't know what to make of it it seems kind of
1:28:51interesting it seems like it maybe it's also sort of like that i don't remember
1:28:57if it was a Kickstarter i think i might have been before Kickstarter but you
1:29:00remember you're a couple years ago there was somebody was trying to make a
1:29:03keyboard
1:29:04yes I yeah I know what this is that led keyboard thing
1:29:07yeah and it was yeah the idea was that each key was a physical keyboard and
1:29:12brush key would be a standalone LED and so like in the quote unquote normal mode
1:29:19it would be you know
1:29:20qwerty you know and everybody alphabetic and have numbers but then like when
1:29:24you're using Photoshop the key caps could change to all of the weird
1:29:29shortcuts so you know you could you know it the H key would change to you know
1:29:34whatever h dozen in Photoshop right well game like a game could change all of the
1:29:41buttons to you know different weapons or something like that
1:29:45yeah and it's sort of uh I guess similar to on iOS when you have that the virtual
1:29:53thing on top of the keyboard right where it suggests stuff and cervix can sort of
1:29:58dynamically do different things right so that that that led keyboard never really
1:30:03who never came to be realistic project but it certainly got people excited I
1:30:10could see how this led touchscreen in place of the function keys could work
1:30:16like that so that yeah and it gets too
1:30:20it's like a little bit like the mac keyboard getting a little taste of that
1:30:24that spiel that Steve Jobs gave at the original iphone introduction about what
1:30:31to do about the buttons on a phone because once you put them there there's
1:30:35nothing else you know they're set and if you come around a new idea later you you
1:30:39know that you'd like to have a different button but he doing he goes well the
1:30:43answer is you know we've solved this years ago with the graphical user
1:30:46interface the answer is doing software
1:30:48so I can kind of see that and quite frankly the idea of f1 f2 f3 keys even
1:30:53get it it's just fiddly and I know apples you know started printing
1:30:59hard-coded printing you know like this is volume up this is volume down this is
1:31:03bryce around and that you know by default that's what those keys do now
1:31:08you have to actually trigger like a system-wide preference to turn them into
1:31:13regular conservatories her right and i think most kids would have no I'd like
1:31:18f1 that what i wanted have no idea
1:31:20yeah my son if I if I I i should do it when he gets home from school i should
1:31:24actually see ya
1:31:26could you hit f1 key what do you mean the brightness down key with which you
1:31:30know any Latin you know that in the i remember when i still have the extended
1:31:34keyboard in front of me but the Apple extended keyboard you know the big tank
1:31:39keyboard that i use it shipped with like a strip that went around the function
1:31:43keys like no I yeah it was like a I don't know what you would call it like a
1:31:49like a stencil almost that would surround the function keys
1:31:53oh yeah okay different pro apps would call my quarkxpress came with with the
1:31:58yeah yeah i actually remember that at IBM pcs they had a similar thing with
1:32:03that yeah when they sold the big the big Keys the big push down key right
1:32:06yeah on by default f1 I think it was just like I think it was just like ZX cv
1:32:14so f1 was undo f2 was cut f3 was copying a for was paced but this is david this
1:32:21is ancient Apple history this is like stuff that worked in like nineteen
1:32:25ninety-one that's really funny though because that's like you know talking
1:32:28about this this virtual old LED strip that is like the original version of
1:32:33their I like software that would ship an actual physical print out that you would
1:32:38overlay you know haha around the keys to have to change their functions to know
1:32:42what their function would be yeah so I you know it i think this is ideas sounds
1:32:48to me like you know hey this sounds like a really good idea because then instead
1:32:52of having these hard-coded things that you know you could make that whole area
1:32:57flexible you know
1:32:58yeah
1:32:59yeah then software updates when they keep updating mac OS and adding new
1:33:04things they don't have to ship a new keyboard all of a sudden now Mac OS
1:33:10flows off the tongue like I really like this is my favorite i'm really excited
1:33:14about them renaming it Mac OS I like it better so that better they still going
1:33:19to do
1:33:19they're so committed the california thing is that the latest you know like I
1:33:23don't know I wouldn't wait Mac OS you know the Hollywood or do whatever I
1:33:30think so i think that they're committed to the California think they've only
1:33:33done it for 22 years writers to order to have it today 23 the 103 because there
1:33:38was married yeah yeah that's right
1:33:40Mavericks first yeah I don't like I think they're committed to the
1:33:46california thing and I think that I think you know but it's just going to be
1:33:50mac OS you know Hollywood yeah well i'll be glad to be done with the 10 elements
1:33:57of it because it was you know we're at ten . 11 . five now
1:34:02it always bothered me all along I and I've never been a fan of the name Mac
1:34:09os10 and I was less of a fan when they officially changed it to OS 10 without
1:34:13the mac alright really never never a fan of that name just because well number
1:34:19one I don't like Roman numerals i just wrote about this it is a drone
1:34:23I just hate them they're the they're absolutely terrible
1:34:26there's arguments to be made that I so I mean I'm not being facetious here there
1:34:31are I've seen arguments that that they're stupid numeral system made the
1:34:35Roman so in cat in a bad at math that led to the decline of the Roman Empire
1:34:41because they felt people who used a logical decimal you know system of
1:34:48indicating numerals that made math easier i hate i just don't like Roman
1:34:53numerals
1:34:54i hate the way that it's you know this doesn't seem to be as big a problem
1:34:57anymore but I hated in the early years the people who said Mac OS X 0 it
1:35:03happens all the time but yeah it's not their problem
1:35:05it's albums problem because it looks like mac OS x because guess what normal
1:35:10people today don't speak in Roman
1:35:13girls if you show them in X they say that's an ex they don't say oh but
1:35:16that's a ten and then as time went on it was as though I mean what's 2016 so 15
1:35:23years of updates to to the operating system in their numbering system it's
1:35:28like they've all been minor little feature upgrades right for favorite
1:35:33years right so i think i read they uh I don't know if you talked about this i've
1:35:40read that somewhere so you know they dominated super bowl 50 this past year
1:35:43they did super bowl 50 rather than Super Bowl L or whatever but next year they're
1:35:48going back to the Roman numerals so it's like Li I think yourself something like
1:35:52that they are at it I I it makes me want to scream because i was so happy I was
1:35:57like you know what that's why I'm so happy because I thought that's brilliant
1:36:0150 is a the the nicest round this number they're going to get to until a hundred
1:36:06grand
1:36:09now they gave this is the way they get out of the mess they've created for
1:36:13themselves with these Roman numerals you know what else screws me up with the
1:36:17roman numeral Star Wars i'm so confused over but however yet the the movie star
1:36:23i really i really am once they got to the prequels like four five and six I
1:36:28understood that there's you know three but now I'm like what the hell is this
1:36:31episode 8 how what how you did it already and it's like yeah just I really
1:36:37i don't like the Roman numerals and star wars but there's no they can't get out
1:36:40of it they've already already into it the NFL could get out of it with the
1:36:44superbowl they did get out of it with 50 and it now they're going back now
1:36:48they're going back
1:36:48el super oli we throw lye that's great i'll just like I did not like it but I
1:36:59used to be amused by like it a like old-time hollywood movies used too often
1:37:04put like the copyright in $YEAR in roman numerals
1:37:07oh it don't they still do that i'm pretty sure some movies still do so at
1:37:11the very end I'm one of those people who stays through the credits the annoying
1:37:15person is through the entire credits even though I'm not reading everything I
1:37:18just sort of like it is the time to you know think about what I just watched or
1:37:21whatever and so I always stay through the end and especially now with all the
1:37:25Marvel stuff where you have to state
1:37:26the end but at the end when they do the last credit thing it's like the whatever
1:37:33it is I don't know if it's mpa or whoever gives that gets the last sort of
1:37:37screen and they do the number of what actual movie it is like how many movies
1:37:43have actually yeah and it's still in roman numerals i'm pretty sure because i
1:37:48know that because they just passed some milestone should look it up but matter
1:37:54even know what I would google for but they just had some major milestone and
1:38:00so it's now like shorter because you know it's past like five thousand
1:38:03whatever the 50,000 or something like that maybe it used to be though and
1:38:08maybe it's not now maybe I'm remembering it slightly wrong and I know that they
1:38:11used to do it like what you're what you're suggesting is like yeah the year
1:38:16and everything would be Roman numeral right and now i think this movie credit
1:38:22system at the very end it may have switched back over to actual numbers
1:38:26because it just got to unwieldly but I'm not a hundred venture don't remember
1:38:29i'll look it up
1:38:31we'll look it up after the show ID is one answer i don't have this definitive
1:38:36my google one that's all I have time for to do live in the show but there's a BBC
1:38:40article that says perhaps one of the most notable areas where people are
1:38:45likely to come across the minerals and TV and film credits for the convention
1:38:48is not to spell out what your something was made the practice is believed to
1:38:53have started in an attempt to disguise the age of films or television programs
1:38:57huh in other words it's the opposite of claiming an undeserved antiquity they're
1:39:02not trying to look old
1:39:03they are trying to look like they're still young
1:39:07because nobody can tell here's an example here's 1998 in roman numerals
1:39:12mcmxc VII I crazy yes
1:39:18yeah I see the ice I think I see the same thing now this one stack exchange
1:39:21talking it out
1:39:22yeah copyright time order studios MC a right that's exactly i've already got it
1:39:27in the show notes i'll put it there folks you can listen just check out the
1:39:30show notes there that's what it is that i think i was conflating the two things
1:39:33that is where they use the Roman numerals the movie number is I think
1:39:38just a number
1:39:39no yeah okay there we go . but that's where there
1:39:42what the hell are we talking about how did how did we get from the keyboard
1:39:45with an oled strip to Roman numerals smack ohh smack ohh Oh Mac os10 right
1:39:51yeah I get out of the 10
1:39:52yeah they're going I wonder would now although I wonder maybe they would like
1:40:03if I don't think you would have to have the new keyboard to use Siri on the mac
1:40:07but maybe they would do the little you know the animation for Siri the
1:40:10horizontal thing because it's such a horizontal animation maybe oh yeah but
1:40:14we do love strip will turn into the waveform yeah i would be pretty yeah
1:40:21the other thing with government report though is that and and it's a little
1:40:24disappointing because I was kinda hoping maybe new macbook pros would come out at
1:40:27WTC but he's he's his report it put it later this year like a fall thing right
1:40:34and there was some little nugget I think and I think that was based on what's the
1:40:39one the one who is it is it k ji or whatever they are pretty good tracker
1:40:45and being right about those things i think was ripping off of that but also
1:40:50talking about the fact that there's there's some potential for a 13-inch
1:40:56macbook not a pro so there would be like the two Pro models and then we already
1:41:02have now the 12-inch you know retina MacBook and now there might be a 13-inch
1:41:07it said that in there and which I was confused by like why would they do it 12
1:41:10and a 13 inch yeah that seems wrong to me it seems to me like this they made
1:41:16that the whole reason they made the 12-inch in the first place was to split
1:41:19the difference between 13 all right right and so yeah I don't know that
1:41:26maybe it's something got lost in translation there
1:41:29yeah or they're going to switch to 13 I don't know it doesn't make sense to have
1:41:3412 and 13 they don't seem different enough to just provide both of them
1:41:37existing and what that mean like you could see where they made where they
1:41:41would make a bigger one to in order to put like a second port everyone
1:41:44complained of course about the one USBC port but then with a 2-14 let you know
1:41:51or 15
1:41:52I just I just think that they have to be different enough that just at a glance
1:41:58at the on the table in the apple store you can say oh that one's big this one
1:42:03small you really can i get asked to be if you're gonna have three it has to be
1:42:08like rare medium and well done you can't even have like a medium a medium rare in
1:42:13there it's you know it's too hard to tell apart and that report also
1:42:18mentioned that they're likely keeping the macbook air around it will just be
1:42:22sort of the cheaper at you know the low of the rare version I your analogy that
1:42:30the cheaper low-end version of what you get for maximum presumably still no
1:42:35Retina screen i guess yeah i think that the the writing is on the wall I and I
1:42:38know that this this is to me is it I get it all the time and there's I know
1:42:43there's so many people i'm going to make you angry if you're one of these people
1:42:45listening I'm telling you right now stop holding your breath for a retina macbook
1:42:49air and it's just not gonna happen and I i know i get emails all the time this is
1:42:54what people are a lot of people want they want exactly what the macbook air
1:42:57is right now
1:42:58yeah with a rabbit and and when they're when they're asking for that is it
1:43:02specifically that they want it like the way the certain type of power adapter
1:43:10and the you at the old older school USB ports rather than because you know the
1:43:16the new macbook is very similar to what a macbook air is except for the ports
1:43:23right eye and the power you know this performance because I lower it is it
1:43:29still sits still slow right okay care and i refreshed MacBook Air if it were
1:43:34to come but it's not i don't think would be faster still like but like the
1:43:39macbook area and go buy today is faster than the macbook and so like if you push
1:43:44your machine a little bit if you're like you know like me you know 50 browser
1:43:49tabs or if you're using Xcode or something like that you know
1:43:52photo editing you want it but no died i think it's very clear looking at the
1:43:57products that Apple's come out with recently what they're doing the the
1:44:01macbook the new one the macbook one will get fast
1:44:06overtime right and it will eventually be like in two years that won't be an issue
1:44:09like right things that right and it wasn't worth it for Apple to put spend
1:44:14money to make a retina macbook air when these things are just going to collide
1:44:18into your eyes and the the on the other end the macbook pros are getting thinner
1:44:23like that's but another part of this rumor with the oled screen is that the
1:44:27macbook even though they you know got so much thinner couple years ago when they
1:44:31went to the mall you know you can't get a spinning hard drive anymore
1:44:34everything's SSD but it's going to get dinner still because that's what Apple
1:44:38does they take products and make them thinner so the macbook pros at the more
1:44:42expensive side and and if performance is important to you are going to get ever
1:44:47more air like in their form factor and the macbook is going to get faster and I
1:44:52and apples bet is that your need for ports is going to decrease over time
1:44:57right
1:44:58and so the macbook air even though if they were to come out with a retina
1:45:03macbook air today it would sell myself very well it's it's a dead end I think
1:45:07in Apple's mind in terms of the differentiation of the product line that
1:45:12it's not it would be to its to conflated with the other products to easily mixed
1:45:17up right and so right now the only reason the macbook airs exist is to hit
1:45:22the 899 and 999 price points right now assume that's a lot of what they're
1:45:27selling to like schools right that's there is that also their school sort of
1:45:33how I feel like I would I would be I would be anybody I would be surprised if
1:45:37schools were buying anything other than the macbook airs because the way they
1:45:43don't have money and be they just don't you know schools you know they're just
1:45:48not going to value something like retina right you know too bad kids even know
1:45:53kids have the sharpest eyes and the most likely to be able to see the fuzzy
1:45:57pixels
1:46:00well justjust wait give them time two years kids two years so i don't know i
1:46:05wonder if we're going to see any hardware WTC now but on the other hand
1:46:09we haven't had new mac hardware and forever except for the updated MacBook
1:46:14one which was you know just a speed bump
1:46:18yeah i mean the only hardware if those reports are true and maybe it won't even
1:46:21be released that would be the thing we're just talking about that user right
1:46:25Cirie help thing but yeah they usually don't do with it
1:46:29they they haven't done Mac hardware in awhile right because they announced the
1:46:33new OS and then they will wait to shade the updated 5k imac last year with the
1:46:39the new high gamut screen
1:46:42oh that's right ok yeah by the way when are they gonna launch a display the
1:46:50external display with retina like why have they not done that yet
1:46:53that's a fantastic question i think that this is something that I because i have
1:46:58the 5k imac yeah I have the old the first one though not that I gamma 1 so
1:47:04you know play a little sad violin song for me
1:47:07yes I i know that the ATP guys have gone on about this in detail and I because i
1:47:13don't have a mac pro I don't care enough to figure it out but there's some kind
1:47:17of thing where Thunderbolt
1:47:19oh right the throughput is not their situation and the only way that Apple
1:47:24made it work internally in the 5k imac was by creating your own thing so I
1:47:31think that's the problem but maybe down this one WTC is where the the the
1:47:37trashcan Darth Vader mac pro came out it is incredibly long overdue for an update
1:47:45and I know it's not like a best-seller but it at the WWDC developer crowd it
1:47:53actually is so maybe it would be a nice i haven't seen any rumors about it but
1:47:57just in terms of being overdue boy that would be a nice announcement that would
1:48:01play extremely I think we play extremely well in the room if they said we've
1:48:06updated the mac pro it is blows away the old Mac Pro Performance and you can hook
1:48:11up this 5k
1:48:13beautiful 5k display to it finally I'm actual finally arm and yeah i mean given
1:48:18apples dominance in both design and film and everything you know it's crazy that
1:48:23all these people can't use a screen that ties into all the rest of apple products
1:48:30that they're using for that right and again it's you know I'm spoiled but I
1:48:34mean I've gone all I guess my training with my last non-retina device was it
1:48:40was I guess it was when i upgraded to this 5k imac what like a year and a half
1:48:46ago but now I stop it
1:48:47everything is right now my son still has a non retina iPad that it is so I think
1:48:52it's like the only non retina device in the house and so really look like like
1:48:55an animal
1:48:56yeah and when I see the screen I'm like oh my god again look at those pixels
1:49:01were pretty big arm i still have I'm actually sitting in front of right now
1:49:05the don't last
1:49:07imac before it went right now it's so nice but yeah you can definitely see see
1:49:12the pixels that sticks out like a sore thumb
1:49:15yeah and it just seems crazy like you said it's just crazy that the the
1:49:18customers who are willing to spend ten dollar yeah one rack pro has no option
1:49:24to buy the dell whatever 4k whatever
1:49:28yeah alright alright let me take one last break here and thank our third and
1:49:33final sponsor this is a great company love these guys
1:49:37Casper these are the guys who make mattresses you don't have to go pick
1:49:43what type of foam or springs or whatever the hell you want
1:49:46Casper figured this out they've got the perfect mattress it's like a blend of a
1:49:51memory foam and springy latex and it's just right is just the right sink just
1:50:00the right pounds and it's a breathable design so it sleeps cool help you
1:50:05regulate your temperature through the night so you don't get the night sweats
1:50:08because your mattress is too hot they sell direct this is like the the
1:50:13cornerstone of of the podcast advertising world are these companies
1:50:17that sell direct and this is they make mattresses right here in the US
1:50:23then they sound to you directly and that is how they can get away with making
1:50:28totally premium quality mattresses that they sell at prices that just blow away
1:50:34the competition go to a mattress store go to your cool well you don't want to
1:50:37go to a mattress store but if you did you go in there and you find that could
1:50:40mattresses usually cost started around 1,500 bucks and a small-sized casper
1:50:46mattresses are just 500 bucks for twin 604 twin XL 754 full 854 queen and just
1:50:53nine hundred and fifty bucks for a king-size mattress it's you go into a
1:50:57mattress store and try to buy a top quality mattress 49 or 50 bucks and
1:51:02you're gonna walk out empty-handed
1:51:04it's easy and even if you don't completely trust in your like I'd I know
1:51:09that mattress stores are gross but I still want like the idea of sitting on
1:51:12it a little bit before I tried trying before i buy seems weird spent 900 bucks
1:51:16on a mattress that I've never even tried hundred day free trial you just buy it
1:51:23you get a hundred days and if you don't like it at any point hundred days you
1:51:28just you just let him know go to the Casper website and and they'll come pick
1:51:33it up at your house and give you a full refund
1:51:36they'll come pick up you don't have to like drag down the steps they'll do the
1:51:39whole thing that's how sure they are that you're going to like the mattress
1:51:42hundred days to try it before you are on the hook for it so get yours today
1:51:47hundred days go to Casper dot-com CSP BR Casper calm / the talk show and when you
1:51:55do that use that Cody talk show you say fifty bucks
1:51:59fifty bucks off their already amazing prices so my thanks to Castleford
1:52:03continuing to sponsor the talkshow great company that's what I want to talk about
1:52:11the Peter tilting sure it's a it's literally what all of twitter is right
1:52:19now so I'm sure so anybody is listening is almost certainly heard and if you
1:52:24really daring fireball I've been obsessed with it for days
1:52:28ask summarize it thus uh there's an ongoing lawsuit where Hulk Hogan suit
1:52:36Gawker because a couple years ago Gawker obtained a sex tape which the backstory
1:52:42on that is all crazy to help anybody the love sponge
1:52:47yes and I make it up that does not made up that somehow two toilets convinced
1:52:56Hulk Hogan to have sex with the guy's wife and he's like totally into it and
1:53:02the guide surreptitiously taped the counter and then anyway daughter ran it
1:53:08and a few list later Hulk Hogan sued and won an enormous judgment hundred and
1:53:15forty million dollars in the state of Florida against gawker which is
1:53:18apparently would and that's not surprising that would bankrupt the
1:53:22company there's an expectation among experts that that on appeal the doctor
1:53:31is going to get that greatly reduced maybe even overturned that doctors you
1:53:35know chances are very good that it was tried in a place that was very amenable
1:53:38to Hogan but you never know and it's never good news to lose the first one so
1:53:43you know cars and roads and it turns out this week it came out that like one day
1:53:48it started with speculation that Nick Denton the the founder and owner of
1:53:52soccer publicly came out speculating that Hogan's lawsuit was funded by stu
1:53:58somebody and he thought maybe like a some billionaire in Silicon Valley I
1:54:03don't know if denton actually had teal in mind at the time I suspect he might
1:54:07have because how many billionaires speculation again amongst people with no
1:54:11has no inside information but that this is vicki was very likely if if this was
1:54:18the case then there was a big if like it seems outrageous that that would
1:54:22actually be the situation that it would likely be Peter tell being the most
1:54:26likely candidate to to be the one right because there's a known grudges between
1:54:31get to because in 2007 rockers Valleywag property ran a story saying
1:54:41that yes Peter teal is gay which you know was interpreted by many as outing
1:54:49I think there's a very good case that they that that's what it was but
1:54:53Valleywag has soccer have always stood behind this argument that it was an open
1:54:57secret everybody in New it just wasn't ever printed anywhere and that it's you
1:55:03know I don't want to get into the politics of it but that it's the fact
1:55:07that we don't talk about it is is sort of a like bigotry against gays because
1:55:14it's pot its positioning homosexuality is something that you would want to hide
1:55:18where it's not which I personally I'm a medical to bed anyway that's just to get
1:55:23out of the way though that you know it's well-known I think it's even on the
1:55:28record that pier to was not happy with that story and their friend I think he
1:55:32he likened a family wag to al-qaeda yes yes I literally an editorial that's
1:55:38really was this comparison it's not like hyperbole like you're exaggerating that
1:55:42was that was what he said right yeah they say he's been known to have taken
1:55:48issue with new Mirada even stories not with him but with other people who he
1:55:52knows that he knows other people who you know to conquer websites have run
1:55:56stories about that he find you no objectionable
1:56:00so it turns out that it's and now he's disappeared tell as has gone on the
1:56:04record with the New York Times and and and admitted yes i bankrolled Hogan's
1:56:09lawsuit to the tune of 10 million dollars it's just crazy like just
1:56:17getting really is just like it you'd like something from did you put on a TV
1:56:23show right our movie you know that it's like a crazy game of thrones plot twist
1:56:28it's something that's like so outlandish that it seemed like because I guess
1:56:33there were rumors about this going around during the trial itself right
1:56:36that someone was out there bankrolling this and what everyone dismissed it
1:56:41you know reading about this in hindsight everyone seemed to dismiss it because it
1:56:44was so outlandish right and then Dennis says his thing and it still seems
1:56:48outlandish but there's like this but if it were to be anyone and then like
1:56:52Forbes somehow is able to find people
1:56:55who would speak you know off the record sir on background I guess I'm on it and
1:57:02then next thing we know we have a deal
1:57:05talking to andrew ross sorkin of New York Times directly about it within like
1:57:10a two day span or whatever right and that the move during the trial that
1:57:13raise people's eyebrows and started the speculation was that the Hogan legal
1:57:18team dropped a charge that if they had one would have been covered by cockers
1:57:26insurance and rockers insurance would this whatever that doesn't really matter
1:57:31which 1i was you know what the legal terms but there was one of the charges
1:57:33and it seemed really curious to people that they would do that because the
1:57:38insurance company whose butt is way more likely to be able to pay the full amount
1:57:43of a large judgment then Gawker is andro and suggests it's not about the money
1:57:49right that it wasn't it was a move that totally seem counter to maximizing the
1:57:53money that Hogan would win and instead it seems specifically about trying to
1:58:00put talk her out of business
1:58:02yeah and that so the most the most compelling and at compelling some weird
1:58:09word to use that was interesting thing about this whole thing to me is like the
1:58:15amount of time that has passed from when the situation happened that that you
1:58:20talked about with the the story on Valley wag you know outing or reveal an
1:58:27outage get whatever revealing that yet right Peter tales gay to to the masses
1:58:32let's say and now it's like did you know that's what I don't know exactly how
1:58:38long it's been but it's like eight years nine years something like that yeah i
1:58:42think it was 9 years and it was a 2007 story and i think i could be wrong by a
1:58:47year but the story I've heard is that at some point in 2006 supposedly teal had
1:58:52warned Valleywag do not write about my personal life or I'll you know or you
1:58:58make an enemy of me you know i don't threaten somebody it did but privately
1:59:03had said I don't do this or out you know
1:59:06alright what I can
1:59:07and it 2007 i think is when the story ran but it's been about roughly ten
1:59:11years and obviously most threats made in those veins and that being hollow or you
1:59:17know sort of like just things get forgotten over time and everybody moves
1:59:21on time heals all wounds but the right not this but not here and like the fact
1:59:26that this has been going on behind the scenes all these years later is just
1:59:31incredible I mean I again it's like a weird thing just it's like impressive in
1:59:37a weird way that someone is so determined to a right what they view as
1:59:44this wrong that they've held onto it this long and like just figured out an
1:59:49avenue to actually be able to execute it
1:59:52alright i will link to it in the show notes I've already linked to an enduring
1:59:56fireball but Felix Salmon writing infusion had a at
1:59:56fireball but Felix Salmon writing infusion had a at
2:00:00great analysis of of just that the depths of the evil genius of seals the
2:00:06revenge that you know just going through step-by-step in just a how long he
2:00:12waited and be that that that the way that libel laws work and typically it's
2:00:17you know details not the first super rich person to sue a publication over
2:00:21negative publicity I mean Donald Trump has done in many times I mean all sorts
2:00:25of people do it but the way it typically works in the way everybody common-sense
2:00:31things that works is if I'm a rich guy and I don't like what your publication
2:00:36wrote about me I sue you about what you wrote about me and you know and the
2:00:41problem with that is that you have to prove that it was false or that you know
2:00:45that is slander or whatever around very very hard and as salmon has pointed out
2:00:50so newspapers at you know just like the new york times are you know any major
2:00:55publication at you know when they write about a rich person in a way that a this
2:00:59is going to be controversial they're not going to like this they have legal team
2:01:02that vets every sentence in this story before it goes out specifically of can
2:01:08we defend this in court can we defend you know every single thing can we
2:01:10defend this in court and so it's not just going through an editorial process
2:01:13that goes through a legal process before it goes out and therefore it makes it
2:01:16very hard for them
2:01:18did the rich person who wants to sue a publication out of existence to win so
2:01:23teals strategy was not to sue Walker over what they wrote about him but was
2:01:29rather to put together a legal team to just go through everything
2:01:32soccer has done for 10 years and look for something that they did that is
2:01:36legally questionable and they struck gold with the Hogan sex tape right and
2:01:43there's you know I think it's actually even while we've been on this this this
2:01:47call recording the show I think they've already been sort of other things
2:01:51leaking out because the room of course is also that they've been looking for
2:01:54other avenues to execute a lawsuit over the years and maybe they have even but
2:01:59no one realized it at the time and I think some of that stuff is starting to
2:02:02come out now it's just breaking so fast it's so crazy and I will you know I
2:02:08there's so many like butts and this story is so widespread
2:02:11and what is I can I don't you know what I've written about on during fire but
2:02:16it's hard to like cover all of these avenues but I'll even say right up front
2:02:20that I don't know a couple of simple what do you think you know decision just
2:02:25be about whether Hogan had a good case or not and it doesn't ever you know
2:02:29wasn't he actually you know what they did a violation of privacy
2:02:32I'm very very I i certainly would never run a sex tape taken surreptitiously by
2:02:38someone else or publisher spread I mean I think it's did honestly I think it's a
2:02:42despicable move just personally I just as it as a human being I mean and so i'm
2:02:48not i'm not even opposed to Hogan having won the suit I don't think soccer ever
2:02:53should have run it the doctors media have done published numerous things over
2:02:56the years that I object to for multiple grounds notably of course the iphone
2:03:03right that's the stories i right was got was this moto right under Gawker right
2:03:08yeah yeah so so I right way in a way that the heart of part of the genius of
2:03:17teal strategy is that he found a case where the people who might otherwise
2:03:23object to the idea of a billionaire secretly funding lawsuit to sue a
2:03:28company out of existence might be a little bit more likely to to say well
2:03:33these are you know these these are bad people that you know this
2:03:36that's not right that they that they took us a certain dishes sex tape and
2:03:39and published it right
2:03:42I stop sex tapes you cum sex tapes i know it wasn't probably wasn't on tape
2:03:45but what else would you call it was all because it's not at eight right it's not
2:03:52right but seems like the term is sex tape
2:03:55yeah it's like the verbal equivalent of the floppy disk for save like we just
2:04:00don't have it right is sex . mov . i don't know I sex-gif yeah x.x get uh so
2:04:12I read I you know and leading up to this i read a few different of the tapes so
2:04:16first of all it like we joked about that all Twitter talk about this like this is
2:04:21in my mind we talked about Twitter earlier is like being you know started
2:04:25like this this fascinating site guy stuff what's happening in my view when
2:04:30something like this happens this makes Twitter almost unbearable simply because
2:04:34everyone is talking about the same thing and there's no way to follow like a like
2:04:42a common thread it's like there's so many different angles and so much
2:04:45information coming in so many opinions that it's like a hodgepodge of
2:04:49everything and I can imagine a regular user after signing up for Twitter say
2:04:55they sign up for twitter yesterday and they got like recommended you know
2:04:58they're interested in the news or something and so they got recommended
2:05:01you like 15 accounts to follow that our journalists and so to help today
2:05:05just imagine what their experience would be like looking at Twitter for the first
2:05:08time it's just like I don't even know how to work to begin like doing what
2:05:13just shut it down like this is this is dreadful these people talking about each
2:05:17other and talking about like no you're wrong and arguing and so with that with
2:05:22that backstory I'm they try to avoid as much as possible of it until there was
2:05:27actually like more actual news of what would what occurred and whatnot it seems
2:05:33like this morning there was some of that we talked about the air and a certain
2:05:36post with a with teal and then there's been there's been some more interesting
2:05:41of the hot takes i would say and so I read yours of course which I like
2:05:44because it was concise and didn't you know sort of a lot of the problems I
2:05:49have with the things of this nature are like this is obviously going after at
2:05:55least the way that journalists perceive it going after the heart of what
2:05:58journalism isn't trying to destroy sort of the institution right and so we get
2:06:02these thought pieces that are going to be five thousand words and just like
2:06:08going on and on and most of them saying sort of the same things you're saying
2:06:11that's slightly different ways and it's just like I it again it's impenetrable
2:06:16too hard to know where to begin with this so I appreciate the concise nature
2:06:19of your your take on this right and average I wasn't trying to capture the
2:06:24whole thing is i think it's too hard to capture the whole thing you know but
2:06:26right just one particular like to me it's the
2:06:30and I appreciate your kind words about it but it's you know it was just the
2:06:34respond to this whole argument of whether anybody's trying to take away
2:06:37Peter tales freedom of speech and it's like you know it was like this
2:06:43libertarian take on it which you know sort of a a pro survive using their
2:06:50super richness to their own advantage and and the idea that anybody who
2:06:55objects to that or find it takes offense at it is therefore trying to suppress it
2:06:59which is not the case like the the article that the guy link to buy josh
2:07:04marshall he wasn't Josh Marshall at talking points maybe it wasn't
2:07:07advocating hey we should pass a law to make this illegal we should you know
2:07:11prevent this he was just saying this is bad news for journalism right well
2:07:17because it's revealed to revealed away to anybody else who has sufficient funds
2:07:21to bankroll such things a way to do the same thing against any other publication
2:07:25they don't like right but so part of that is like this is existed for a long
2:07:30time to be able to do this this whole thing isn't new but its its new i guess
2:07:35in this context and and people's eyes are opening to it for the first time
2:07:40because what you know what
2:07:43teal did is not illegal this is you know this is an avenue that that others have
2:07:48used just maybe not in this direct way before or maybe they haven't we just
2:07:52don't know about it but what I liked about what you wrote
2:07:56we're and maybe a it correct me if i missed representing in some ways but
2:08:01this is sort of my stance on it after you know one day of of thinking about it
2:08:06is so what teal did is not illegal
2:08:11whether you know you think it's unethical ER or sort of not i don't know
2:08:18that there's so many words used to describe it but anyway it's not illegal
2:08:21and arm it's also of course not illegal for then to suggest that someone is
2:08:27doing this and that is not illegal for Forbes to look into it and get sources
2:08:31saying that
2:08:32yeah it's it's the sky and then it's not illegal for teal then to go and talk to
2:08:35new york times and you know reveal sort of what he's doing why he did it and now
2:08:40apparently Denton's working on a rebuttal post about this and it
2:08:43like at the end of the day this I understand why everyone's up in arms of
2:08:48this of course but the situation does sort of sort itself out and I think if
2:08:54Gawker went out of business which is a real possibility my thought there is but
2:09:01like a thousand other gawkers will just rise in its in its sort of place and you
2:09:07could say well then you know some billionaire might take out them to I
2:09:12have a hard time believing that you know there's there's honestly enough money in
2:09:16the world to sort of fight all these battles and it's not just money by the
2:09:19way it's time to that again going back to what the most interesting thing about
2:09:22this to me is like that peter thiel took the time and the the extended time
2:09:26period to actually execute this plan
2:09:29most people would not do that of course and most people just don't have the time
2:09:32that it's not worth their time to do it and so I sort of is is sort of lame as
2:09:38it sounds I think like this thing sorts itself out naturally
2:09:43yeah i think especially as it settles in as you know 24-hour old news now I think
2:09:50that the fears that this will become a playbook for billionaires to take on
2:09:54other publications are I not just hopefully unfounded I think they're
2:09:58probably unfounded I think this was a unique situation both in terms of the
2:10:05the way that soccer opened themselves up to these sort of suits by being so I
2:10:15don't know what the word is reckless aggressive-aggressive fast and loose
2:10:19with what you know what sugar should not be published
2:10:23I I you know could somebody do this to me for example could somebody it it's
2:10:28like what if I written that you could really take me to court over you could
2:10:31definitely inconvenience me by just making me go to court and have to hire a
2:10:35lawyer to fight a bogus lawsuit but I don't you know I mean I don't know that
2:10:39why would I don't see why someone would do that cause the other part is that
2:10:43pier teal had such a group grievance against them
2:10:48right i mean is there somebody who I've called jackass of the week in the past
2:10:52who who would do this to me i don't know i don't think yeah but yeah but even if
2:10:57they would so you like you yeah you may have pissed off plenty of people i'm
2:11:01sure you have over the years but may have pissed off Peter T like calling him
2:11:04an asshole i don't know but i have you open yourself up to you know so you get
2:11:11that could open you up to you know like someone could try to see you directly
2:11:14for called for slander whatever our bible i always forget the difference i
2:11:18do to you but um but then
2:11:22could someone do this sort of surrogate lawsuits and you know actually go after
2:11:26you for something it seems almost impossible
2:11:32yes you're right i think part of it is that it's just it's just that nobody
2:11:36ever thought that anybody it just never occurred to someone to do this and it
2:11:39speaks to Till's I honest I mean again I called him an asshole and I stand by and
2:11:46I think that him doing it in secret was cowardly I think that it only came out
2:11:50now is you know it you know kind of a coward to move but it was genius right
2:12:00it was extremely clever and it's the sort of you know that's why he's the
2:12:04success that he is a big and it's you know it's a huge part of the whole
2:12:08Silicon Valley what are we looking for is we're looking for people who see
2:12:12things that nobody else sees and this is an example of that right it's he saw an
2:12:18opportunity here to do this in a way that it just never occurred to anybody
2:12:23else I think that's why this is so the grabbed everybody's attention
2:12:27well and so it just don't know almost to play devil's advocate a bit on this but
2:12:32like you know when you call him and an asshole for the way that he sort of
2:12:37executed it i mean what if maybe he executed it this way on purpose like he
2:12:43wanted to be in the shadows for all this time and then to have some sort of big
2:12:47reveal to make it that much more of a statement and make it that much more
2:12:51meaningful when it did come out this way yet and and and the aforementioned felix
2:12:57Salmon post definitely makes the case that
2:13:01he makes a compelling case that revealing himself was absolutely part of
2:13:06it part of the plan because what it does is it it it says this isn't now you
2:13:14realize that whatever happens with the Hogan appeal this isn't gonna stop and
2:13:19he can write keep this up indefinitely and everybody knows that everybody can
2:13:23just go through the back of her mind a list of things you know
2:13:27articles that Crocker has published over the years that maybe they could get sued
2:13:29over and it therefore means that any anybody who is perhaps thinking of
2:13:34investing in Gawker is going to think twice about it because it looks like if
2:13:39you're investing in gauger your and investing against Peter teal funding you
2:13:44know trying to bankrupt the company and they need the investment money because
2:13:48they need to have you know just to deal with the legal fees and and the
2:13:52potential judgment against Hogan right you know that revealing himself as part
2:13:57of it because now right right makes Cocker look like a way worse investment
2:14:01than it was you know Gawker if you're if anybody was thinking of investing in
2:14:04soccer two days ago it's certainly looking for a worse investment now that
2:14:08you know that they've made a lifelong enemy of Peter teal and that hand up if
2:14:12we set his sights on destroying the company
2:14:14unsurprisingly there are already reports of course now that that car trying to
2:14:18sell itself and you know it's being marked down way below what they you know
2:14:23where value that in just a few months ago
2:14:26yeah and that's going to make it very hard
2:14:30yeah i would just say i would say in terms of what i wrote that if it turns
2:14:33out that it's true that yields plan all along was to reveal himself at a certain
2:14:37strategic point for the purpose of even you know kicking them when they're down
2:14:43then it doesn't take away the asshole part of what i said takes away the
2:14:47coward part because he didn't have a plan to remain secret forever that we
2:14:50only secret strategically for the first part of this devilish revenge scheme
2:14:56yeah and I mean I will say I don't know Peter to little effect i am fairly
2:15:00certain I've actually never met him
2:15:02even though we sort of do the same thing now but uh you know I also just one of
2:15:09the things have trying to think about again a reaction to this in a 24-hour
2:15:12period
2:15:13I don't work
2:15:14call the whole situation with Valleywag when it happened those eight or nine
2:15:19years ago I mean I heard about it in it you know after the fact and I but i also
2:15:27have a hard time sort of discounting like well I understand that what that
2:15:32what Valley wags position was that it was sort of like publicly that he was he
2:15:37was known to be a game amongst a big enough circle that it should be sort of
2:15:42common knowledge like I don't know what his mindset what like he's he was
2:15:47clearly he's clearly very was very pissed off and very pissed off enough to
2:15:50do this whole plan like I I don't know that I want to say like is he wrong you
2:15:57know like a lot of people are saying that this is a major overblown thing
2:16:03that he's East he's just taking it so far out of proportion and the the
2:16:07responses not in proportion to what the the original Act was but like I don't
2:16:12know that I wasn't there like maybe he was like his mindset was just totally
2:16:18destroyed by what they did after he told them not to do it and you know so anyway
2:16:25I just don't want to like degrade that completely I don't know what his mindset
2:16:28is I i hear you as a devil's advocate take i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i disagree
2:16:34well I don't you should say disk because i don't know i only did you know I don't
2:16:37know Peter till either obviously right so that's possible and that's impossible
2:16:42you know that really was so significantly stressful to him
2:16:45emotionally harmful to him you know that maybe it it really isn't
2:16:50disproportionate but the one goofy that i have to say that he's a goofy part
2:16:54this is good i mean this is goofy is it is a heels description of this as the
2:17:01most philanthropic thing he's ever done
2:17:04how ya like that is is really that's gonna go down as one of the things like
2:17:11for people who are you know it thinking that the inequality is out of control
2:17:16and that the the Richard that's the hyper rich are are detached from reality
2:17:21is it
2:17:23I mean there's exhibit a is Peter to I mean whatever you think about this right
2:17:26there there there
2:17:27I'm fully acknowledging that there's a devil's advocate take on this that what
2:17:31he did is just prevent serve cold and interact was in some sense just I don't
2:17:37agree i think it's a vast over-reaction you know I go with the Nigerian
2:17:43Elizabeth Spears take ya idea that it's you know it's like a you know like if
2:17:47the United States attacked a small African country with the full weight of
2:17:51the Armed Services just for some small you know you know just proportionate
2:17:57reaction right um I'm on that side but i agree the devil's advocate take on that
2:18:01but even if you agree the devil's advocate take this is that this is not
2:18:05the philanthropy I don't know what did you read Ben Thompson's take two in his
2:18:11his newsletter today it was no yeah it was interesting because i won't go into
2:18:16it that I want it you can link to it but it's um like so I thought it was
2:18:21fascinating way to like frame it around the notion of like superheroes and
2:18:25supervillains and like he it's like what can one can these like superheroes exist
2:18:32without a I don't bungle this but it's basically uh that like in you know so
2:18:41say like the Marvel Cinematic Universe like what happens when the superheroes
2:18:45come is there's usually like this super you know fill-in thing that ends up
2:18:49coming
2:18:50it seems coincidentally but maybe it's not coincidental right maybe it's it's
2:18:53the result of the superhero coming or vice versa like the superhero comes
2:18:57because the supervillain is there and so they're intertwined right and it's um he
2:19:03draws the interesting analogy to this whole situation of of how this is going
2:19:08down which i think is that is is worth the read there is a certain amount of
2:19:14people have compared Ilan musk to a Bond villain but at elon musk doesn't seem
2:19:19that it doesn't i can't do anything he's done it makes him look like a jerk but
2:19:24this there is like a certain you know it a bond movies and other movies are
2:19:29always full of you know evil billionaires or you know even maybe
2:19:33evils too strong word but you know right
2:19:36there's billionaires bent on emailing even is
2:19:40you mean billionaires and this is here it is it in real life you know like this
2:19:46is incredible scheme that nobody would have nobody really it perceived as
2:19:50possible like and went like you said before like when it came up in trial
2:19:54interviews Yeah Yeah come on that's this isn't a Marvel movie
2:19:58yeah uh but and then the other element to this like going back to where we
2:20:03started sort of like with the whole twitter and it's just like oh my god
2:20:07this is this is going to go on for a while I mean you know like you said you
2:20:11know 24 hours sort of things died down but then there's more and more just
2:20:14keeps coming and this is like the perfect storm you know coming as someone
2:20:18who comes from the reporter side and now sort of you know far enough removed from
2:20:25its is sort of hopefully be somewhat a circumspect about it
2:20:30this is like the perfect storm of story that's not going to die anytime soon
2:20:35because this is what i many not all but many reporters love writing about more
2:20:42than anything else is their own profession and like yeah you know things
2:20:45coming after it and the potential to first for the end of what they do and
2:20:52incoming after potentially their livelihood and stuff and so this is just
2:20:55the perfect storm for twitter for media Twitter and it's going to be nonstop
2:21:00stories about this for a long time to come it seems like yeah that to meet its
2:21:04is it
2:21:06I can't it's almost hard to conceive of a better story for media Twitter yeah
2:21:10yeah I don't know anything else you want to talk about it now that's were pretty
2:21:22much wraps up my list so people can find your writing
2:21:29where were you doing with your writing these days so almost always now on on
2:21:35medium I set up one of the publications are mediums course again one of the GV
2:21:38investments but down
2:21:40I just like before we invested in it I was a huge fan of the simplicity of the
2:21:47platform and the CMS elements of having used many other CMS throughout the years
2:21:52which our hodgepodge
2:21:53of things so most the writing i do now i bought a domain called 500 ish which was
2:21:59nice and short and I try to keep the writing short these days since i don't
2:22:02have a ton of time to do it as much as I used to so that's why I'm 500 ish . calm
2:22:09down on and on that on the Twitter mg Siegler at m GC right that's right
2:22:17that's right all right
2:22:19my thanks to you for your time and and your your observations i would also like
2:22:25to give one more
2:22:26thanks to our sponsors are Casper go buy a mattress audible go buy some
2:22:33audiobooks and wealthfront invest all the money you have left after you've
2:22:39bought a mattress and lots of audiobooks and soot burger suit also been yes and
2:22:45sue sue somebody