The Talk Show

150: ‘Strict Robot Definer’, With Special Guest Jason Snell


00:00:00   they're feel like I just saw you [TS]

00:00:03   well i feel like i did just see you I mean like it what it's not like one of [TS]

00:00:08   those euphemisms boy it seems like it was it was like monday Monday afternoon [TS]

00:00:14   what a week yeah it's a big week I was a did you see that baseball perspective is [TS]

00:00:22   launching an entire site devoted to the Mets have that moment like I didn't [TS]

00:00:27   matter but it turns out they've got a bunch of local sites they already have a [TS]

00:00:31   Bronx site for the for the Yankees so you're they don't have a have a giant [TS]

00:00:36   site that one I feel I feel slighted there but it's baseball [TS]

00:00:40   it's coming to becoming Scott becoming try it sometime . it's a big market [TS]

00:00:44   yeah and there's a good team I'm sure it'll happen but you know yes . that [TS]

00:00:47   they launched like ESPN boston or something and yeah exactly [TS]

00:00:50   expand as and in New York yeah but they never did a again they never did a [TS]

00:00:55   California even let alone Bay Area sports and subside I don't know what it [TS]

00:01:00   is i think it's because people in California don't care about sports I [TS]

00:01:02   think that's probably actually this is the the fact from capita like some of us [TS]

00:01:08   care about it but most of us know have you looked at the the MLB app for Apple [TS]

00:01:15   TV recently like in the preseason I know what happened [TS]

00:01:19   I has progressed and some so very disappointing ways I think and this is [TS]

00:01:25   because people ask you know they probably ask you this they definitely [TS]

00:01:28   ask me this because iíve written about that app a bunch and i went to it went [TS]

00:01:32   to New York and and met those guys which was really cool to go to the MLB [TS]

00:01:37   advanced media offices [TS]

00:01:39   yeah and the good guys they love the Apple platforms that they've got a great [TS]

00:01:43   team of developers they're really happy about the new Apple TV because the if [TS]

00:01:48   you ever did you ever see their PlayStation app no oh it was amazing it [TS]

00:01:53   was better I think maybe the xbox one app is like this now but there was a [TS]

00:01:56   period in there where the PlayStation app was the MLB app like it had you [TS]

00:02:02   could see the metadata that they would drop in of like when there was a hit or [TS]

00:02:05   when there was a homer or when there was a run and you could use the you know [TS]

00:02:09   playstation controller to like jump jump to the next scoring play [TS]

00:02:13   just incredible amounts of data was it was way more complex than anything I've [TS]

00:02:16   seen on any other platform so I I knew they were going to be excited about the [TS]

00:02:21   apple TV because they were they will be able to build a nap instead of just sort [TS]

00:02:24   of like a list of streams all right but the problem with the MLB stuff is they [TS]

00:02:28   make these press releases for spring training but in reality their ship date [TS]

00:02:32   is like the first day of the season so I i'm reluctant to write about their apps [TS]

00:02:37   during spring training because they're you know first off the like data that's [TS]

00:02:43   being collected and the video that's being generated is not of its like [TS]

00:02:47   substandard quality because it's not the regular season so that's that's a big [TS]

00:02:50   part of it and and I do think they're like they're busy doing the app version [TS]

00:02:54   that's gonna release on opening day and that's the one to write about because [TS]

00:02:58   you know I bet that it's yeah what they've got on the apple TV right now [TS]

00:03:03   what they've got on the ipad right now and yeah it's okay but it's like spring [TS]

00:03:06   training mode I I feel like there's always a better version that the drops [TS]

00:03:09   at the end of march i think so i hope so i think though that it in this [TS]

00:03:14   particular case I think that they might be sort of well that's gonna stay behind [TS]

00:03:20   the eight ball but i might be mixing metaphors but I'm i feel like the [TS]

00:03:24   platform changes are so significant that I I think they'll get there eventually [TS]

00:03:28   because like you said it's a phenomenal team and they really do care but at the [TS]

00:03:33   moment it's it's really kind of weird how it's like worse than the old apple [TS]

00:03:37   TV app yeah that's not good [TS]

00:03:39   does not like that the big one is that you can't decide like give you let's say [TS]

00:03:43   you start to watch a game after it started it but it's on like the game [TS]

00:03:47   started at seven and you start watching at eight [TS]

00:03:49   you don't even get the choice anymore whether you want to start from the [TS]

00:03:51   beginning or watch life it just it just sort of streams and put your like you [TS]

00:03:55   know 30 seconds behind live well that's not good [TS]

00:03:58   no baby I'm sure they'll get to the yeah I'm sure I'm sure they will you you're [TS]

00:04:02   so you're a Yankee fan in philly so right you're out of are very lucky right [TS]

00:04:07   they did so there was this big class action lawsuit about a lot of things [TS]

00:04:13   involving sports leagues and video and in in out-of-market video and stuff like [TS]

00:04:18   that it's it's a things are are changing starting this year and one of the things [TS]

00:04:22   that they changed is that they're offering like a one-team [TS]

00:04:26   in market streaming package would you buy that instead of the everything it's [TS]

00:04:30   like you can say 40 bucks or thirty bucks and and just get Yankees games or [TS]

00:04:34   would you do you want the whole spread if you buy the package to you by the way [TS]

00:04:37   i do back out to know I I definitely buy it and its lucky and for those of you [TS]

00:04:42   who aren't sports and it's you know you gotta listen to some supports talk on [TS]

00:04:45   this show but the gist of this market thing is and it sounds crazy but if [TS]

00:04:51   you're not a sports fan you might think it's super crazy is that like if you [TS]

00:04:56   live in the home market of a team so let's say for me that would be the [TS]

00:05:01   Philadelphia Phillies you can't stream their game is a home or away because the [TS]

00:05:08   idea is you're supposed to pay for cable to get the channel on cable that pays to [TS]

00:05:13   carry their games regularly but you can pay MLB what is like a hundred [TS]

00:05:17   twenty-eight year [TS]

00:05:18   well so part of the settlement of a lawsuit it's it's a hundred this year [TS]

00:05:21   huh [TS]

00:05:23   so for a hundred bucks you can get the MLB thing and you can watch every game [TS]

00:05:28   except for the one that that are local to you [TS]

00:05:30   yeah but they definitely you know and I'm sure that there's ways around it [TS]

00:05:34   with the VPN and stuff like that but it's on iOS though because i was his [TS]

00:05:39   location services so yeah if you've got location services turned on its easier [TS]

00:05:45   on a mac to fake where you are in the world but it's hard around an iphone or [TS]

00:05:48   an ipad right like the one time I was out i remember it was like two years ago [TS]

00:05:52   I think it was two years ago the Yankees were playing the oakland athletics and I [TS]

00:05:56   was out for WWDC and I wanted to pop the game on my iPhone and they were like you [TS]

00:06:00   can't watch it and I'm like oh you get must have the wrong location for me and [TS]

00:06:03   I'm like oh wait yeah do you have the right location for me it's it's amazing [TS]

00:06:08   it's it's it's one of those I mean this is not just a sports conversation [TS]

00:06:11   because it's about like how technology is totally swapping the the the [TS]

00:06:15   entertainment industry that this is like a TV industry problem and how do you [TS]

00:06:20   protect me and it's very easy to say well people cut the cord you just have [TS]

00:06:23   to deal with it's stupid that they're not offering it but like if you look at [TS]

00:06:26   the deal the dodgers signed their cable deal in la is worth like 30 billion [TS]

00:06:32   dollars or something like that it's insane it is it amazing amount of money [TS]

00:06:36   and why is it that much money the answer is because the case [TS]

00:06:39   the company figures that if they control the Dodgers TV rights [TS]

00:06:43   Dodger fans in la can't cut the cord because they they had and that's why [TS]

00:06:47   it's worth as much as it is is is because of that which you know but at [TS]

00:06:52   some point I don't know what happens at some point cable goes down to the point [TS]

00:06:57   where they're going to have to try to find another way to make money but one [TS]

00:07:00   of the things about this [TS]

00:07:01   the shift is happening with that that uh the the the class action settlement is [TS]

00:07:07   in parallel there they're making deals with local cable companies so what's [TS]

00:07:14   interesting about that is it means that if if you have a cable login so this is [TS]

00:07:18   not record cutters but like I used to work in downtown San Francisco two [TS]

00:07:22   blocks from the Giants ballpark and I pay for cable and and yet I couldn't sit [TS]

00:07:27   in my office and watch the giants game that was happening because i was in the [TS]

00:07:31   local market even though I could watch it at home or I could use like a [TS]

00:07:34   slingbox to watch it and that's changing they made a deal with most but not all [TS]

00:07:39   it's like 22 teams now where if you've got a cable login you can you can watch [TS]

00:07:44   the game even even if it's a local game you can watch it and that that seems to [TS]

00:07:48   be the next frontier for streaming is going to be everything is unlocked if [TS]

00:07:52   you're paying for cable in some form [TS]

00:07:54   yeah the weird thing one of the weird things that you don't see the [TS]

00:07:57   commercials release not the standard and sometimes they sell other commercials [TS]

00:08:01   but usually that in the space between innings just dead air and they're like [TS]

00:08:05   you know in between innings or something like that you know stand by the game [TS]

00:08:08   will come back and i had the idea years ago and in every time this has ever come [TS]

00:08:13   up on the podcast people write in and they say why don't they just show the [TS]

00:08:16   commercials if the way they make money is the ship sell commercials to show the [TS]

00:08:20   same commercials to the people watching live but it's what you said which is [TS]

00:08:24   that the cable companies see it as a reason to get cable [TS]

00:08:28   it's more than just the commercials yeah they make they make their money on cable [TS]

00:08:31   subscriptions not the commercials are bonuses just like you know you pay for a [TS]

00:08:34   magazine subscription back in the day but it still had ads in the magazine [TS]

00:08:38   it's that you get money from both both streams come in and that's how you find [TS]

00:08:42   whatever you're doing and and so I do wonder if part of the deal of showing [TS]

00:08:47   local channels in local to people who are local cable subscribers is that they [TS]

00:08:51   have to set up like a feed where [TS]

00:08:52   your shit you're seeing the local ads because they probably do want that's [TS]

00:08:57   probably one of the sticking points of the deal right is they've they've [TS]

00:09:00   guaranteed their advertisers this coverage and that you know so that might [TS]

00:09:05   be that's a technical thing where you know you know the fox sports southwest [TS]

00:09:10   task to feed the Diamondbacks games to MLB advanced media it's probably I mean [TS]

00:09:16   they're doing it anyway but they probably feed a version with commercials [TS]

00:09:19   tumors on his technical probably more than anything else but that's why this [TS]

00:09:22   is all complicated for all this stuff is their contracts and there's big money [TS]

00:09:27   and there's technical limitations and in Aztec people we think well we can we can [TS]

00:09:32   solve this we can solve this technologically and then you realize oh [TS]

00:09:36   it's not the attack is not the problem i can be advanced media is like one of the [TS]

00:09:40   most advanced streaming media organizations in the world may be the [TS]

00:09:44   most they do so much for other people that people don't know about their their [TS]

00:09:48   streaming the HBO now service right they've done CBS sports stuff i think [TS]

00:09:52   they do ESPN stuff i mean they are a very good at what they do [TS]

00:09:56   technical is not the problem the problem is contracts that still exists and money [TS]

00:10:01   where you know if cable company in la is gonna pay 30 billion dollars for 4 30 [TS]

00:10:07   years or 20 years or whatever of of rights to the dodgers then it's kind of [TS]

00:10:13   hard to walk away from that if you're you know if your major league baseball [TS]

00:10:16   even if it does shutout cord-cutters because that's a lot of money and [TS]

00:10:20   remember the two years ago when HBO tried to do their own thing with HBO Go [TS]

00:10:24   it when the game of Thrones premiers come out it completely collapse and they [TS]

00:10:29   were it they were literally reduced to asking people hey one anyway today they [TS]

00:10:36   could think of it they got rid of the guy to I mean that's the most shocking [TS]

00:10:39   thing is the story is that that their CTO was building this streaming [TS]

00:10:43   infrastructure on the inside of HBO and he and they're like well yeah but we're [TS]

00:10:48   talking to Major League Baseball we could use them so no we're gonna do it [TS]

00:10:52   and then there was that one day where they like they announced they were going [TS]

00:10:55   to go with major league baseball and that guy was leaving the company line [TS]

00:10:58   and and then last year with when they had the MLB advanced media back [TS]

00:11:02   streaming system that will [TS]

00:11:04   this apparently seamless and mommy's gonna do I mean I guess it's never [TS]

00:11:08   perfect for everybody but even cables not perfect for everybody [TS]

00:11:13   the other weird thing on this well weird for me because I as a yankees fan but [TS]

00:11:17   it's it's a lot of the preseason coverage is the fact that comcast still [TS]

00:11:22   doesn't have they dropped the YES Network which is the Yankees [TS]

00:11:25   entertainment and Sports Network right that carries like you like at least a [TS]

00:11:30   hundred and fifty out of the hundred and sixty-two games a year there's like 12 [TS]

00:11:33   that are on fox maybe a couple more than that because there's someone ESPN but a [TS]

00:11:36   hundred and forty some games at least a year and comcast drop them in november [TS]

00:11:42   and still hasn't picked him back up so if this at you know at least as of this [TS]

00:11:46   recording friday marks 25th the Yankees aren't going to be on TV if you're in [TS]

00:11:51   New York if you have cable [TS]

00:11:52   oh so that's actually a very similar situation to what happened in LA for [TS]

00:11:56   people who don't know like la Time Warner Cable has had this Dodgers deal [TS]

00:12:01   and they have not been able to come to agreement with the other cable company [TS]

00:12:05   or satellite providers that serve people in LA so there's a tiny percentage of [TS]

00:12:10   people in la who are able to see the bulk of the Dodger games on TV and I [TS]

00:12:13   think that's still not worked out all the way i read somewhere that that was [TS]

00:12:16   going to be worked out but it's kind of awful but this is you know it's like I [TS]

00:12:22   talked about this so I do every week i do a podcast with Tim Goodman from the [TS]

00:12:25   hollywood reporter and we talked about this in the same thing a lot because [TS]

00:12:28   it's transforming all entertainment all TV is is doing this and it's like a [TS]

00:12:32   death spiral I mean they don't know where this is going there desperately [TS]

00:12:35   paying money to try and hold on or or mitigate how far the fall is how fast it [TS]

00:12:42   is i mean and so you end up in these situations where it makes no sense that [TS]

00:12:47   the people of Los Angeles and New York can't see these baseball teams on their [TS]

00:12:51   TV set and yet [TS]

00:12:53   great this is where we are because they are because there are bigger issues like [TS]

00:12:57   the entire future of their industry that they feel are at play [TS]

00:13:00   yeah and I I it seems like it would only be fair if like Comcast doesn't have the [TS]

00:13:05   Yankees in your comcast company customer that you should be able to get the MLB [TS]

00:13:09   app wreckage you know but it doesn't work and now I think you're just blocked [TS]

00:13:14   out which [TS]

00:13:15   would that would drive me nuts i don't know i mean this guy I and it's like a [TS]

00:13:21   lot of negotiations you know when there's out when there really is a hard [TS]

00:13:23   deadline which is opening day which is a week away i mean i wouldn't be surprised [TS]

00:13:27   if a deal gets hammered out in the next week but that it just seems you know I [TS]

00:13:31   don't know yet it's like but like I said dominating the preseason talk about the [TS]

00:13:36   Yankees because everybody's panic that I can be able to watch the games [TS]

00:13:38   well and some of the problems with his ministers to business models like on the [TS]

00:13:43   web and and everywhere else which is getting people to pay for a premium [TS]

00:13:46   service is great but it's not the same as having everybody have it right you [TS]

00:13:49   lose this whole layer of casual fans in the case of baseball who are going to [TS]

00:13:54   flip on a game and watch it from time to time but they're not going to ever pay a [TS]

00:13:59   hundred dollars a year to do that right and so and and that's why they don't [TS]

00:14:03   that's why you know Time Warner Cable in la is not going to create a Dodger fan [TS]

00:14:08   package for everybody who isn't a type of Time Warner Cable customer to pay [TS]

00:14:12   them ten dollars or twenty dollars a month to watch the Dodgers because [TS]

00:14:15   that's not their endgame they want they want to cut a deal with comcast or [TS]

00:14:19   whoever who will pay them you know a few dollars off of the Bill of every single [TS]

00:14:24   subscriber and then it goes everywhere it's like um I have a friend who's a a [TS]

00:14:28   cricket fan and he's in canada and he's watching all these like indian cricket [TS]

00:14:34   league matches and I I was like well that's interesting i can check that out [TS]

00:14:37   you can't get in the US well you can but it's priced for the hardcore fan they've [TS]

00:14:42   gone the other way where it's like you can't be a casual fan of that thing in [TS]

00:14:46   America of cricket because there are there is a small group of people who [TS]

00:14:50   love it and will pay like a hundred dollars to see one cricket tournament or [TS]

00:14:54   whatever they call them and uh and and that's what they're going for and you [TS]

00:14:59   baseball does want to do that they want to be [TS]

00:15:01   these are mainstream sports they want to make the deal where they get a huge [TS]

00:15:04   amount of money and it's available to everybody and it makes me wonder about [TS]

00:15:09   the future of a broad appeal stuff if everything is ala carte because there's [TS]

00:15:15   a lot of stuff that you're willing to watch if it's on but are you willing to [TS]

00:15:19   pay for it [TS]

00:15:21   that's very true alright let's because as good a time as any to take a break [TS]

00:15:27   and thank our first sponsor [TS]

00:15:29   it's our old friends at backblaze you guys know back place online backup for [TS]

00:15:33   your mac it also works on a pc i haven't tried in RPC because I have don't have [TS]

00:15:39   one but on the Mac this is what i would recommend even if they don't learn [TS]

00:15:43   sponsoring the show if you said what should i do to backup my my computer i [TS]

00:15:47   would tell you to have a system where you back up locally backup you know use [TS]

00:15:49   time machine maybe use I use super duper make keep a clone of my startup drive [TS]

00:15:54   but have something that is outside your office out of your house something off [TS]

00:16:00   site just in case disaster strikes [TS]

00:16:03   somebody breaks in steals your computer water damage like some leaks over your [TS]

00:16:08   desk gets all over your computer ruins everything [TS]

00:16:11   who knows anything like that could happen if you have an off-site backup [TS]

00:16:14   you don't lose all of your data is this [TS]

00:16:19   these guys are great they're former that the mac version is written by former [TS]

00:16:22   Apple engineers it runs natively on your Mac you'll never notice it you have to [TS]

00:16:27   put java on your computer anything like that it's just native mac OS 10 code [TS]

00:16:30   you'll never even notice that it's running you just install it you get a [TS]

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00:16:39   no credit card no risk [TS]

00:16:40   just try and see how easy it is how seamless it is and then when you're [TS]

00:16:45   ready to go [TS]

00:16:46   it's an amazing deal it's just five bucks a month per computer and its [TS]

00:16:51   unlimited there's no limit to how much data [TS]

00:16:53   the only limit on the data is how long it takes for you to do your first backup [TS]

00:16:57   before it goes incremental after that you don't pay more if you have a lot of [TS]

00:17:02   data it's just five bucks per camper mac for unlimited backup [TS]

00:17:06   I said it before I'll say it again someday I hope that these guys stop [TS]

00:17:09   sponsoring the show because everybody who listens to the show is signed up for [TS]

00:17:12   has got their family members been signed up for two and everything backed up to [TS]

00:17:17   back plays and I'll just reiterate big you can restore one file at a time [TS]

00:17:24   go to the website find the file you want get it if you want to get everything [TS]

00:17:27   back you can order a USB hard drive [TS]

00:17:30   they'll put everything onto a hard drive and fedex fedex it to you [TS]

00:17:33   so whether you need everything or whether you just need one file back [TS]

00:17:37   place works so go to backpage.com / daring fireball and [TS]

00:17:41   and sign up now if you haven't I guess we should start with the with the event [TS]

00:17:47   right we could start with the event then talk about the actual devices [TS]

00:17:51   yeah I mean that seems like a good place to start that's everybody so many things [TS]

00:17:55   i say everybody but so many complaints that it was uh this is a boring about [TS]

00:17:58   why do they have an event i kinda more I think about it that I think an event [TS]

00:18:02   like this week's is actually more interesting if you're like an apple nerd [TS]

00:18:06   then the bigger ones because I feel like it's a little bit more revealing [TS]

00:18:13   it's in you know for example just for example like jhaza segments like how do [TS]

00:18:18   you introduce a phone that has no nothing new about it it's a yes it does [TS]

00:18:25   well think about it though it's a design that we've seen before ok so rose gold [TS]

00:18:30   is new but we have seen rose gold before I and all of the stuff that's in the [TS]

00:18:37   phone that a9 processor the camera from the edge iphone 6s being able to do [TS]

00:18:45   Apple pay with the touch ID sensor we've seen it all before so how do you how do [TS]

00:18:49   you spend 10 or 15 minutes onstage talking about a phone that that all the [TS]

00:18:54   everything I just said about is true and you guys on literally nothing nothing [TS]

00:18:58   new about that product other than the mixture of it but you're right i the the [TS]

00:19:04   broad mainstream wants to see something like totally new blowing you away from [TS]

00:19:09   Apple every single time which is unrealistic but that's why you always [TS]

00:19:12   get the disappointing event every every time every time there's an apple event [TS]

00:19:16   people say it's disappointing because that's just unless it's the new iphone [TS]

00:19:19   like the original iphone to the original iPad and it's just not going to be [TS]

00:19:23   exciting but for us you're right you know it becomes about like how does [TS]

00:19:27   Apple communicate something like the iphone SE and what is their positioning [TS]

00:19:31   like why would you do that why would you do something because although there's no [TS]

00:19:35   parts in it that are that are new [TS]

00:19:37   it is a it is the first time they've ever done a product like this so it is [TS]

00:19:42   new strategy wise and so right if we care about strategy then it's actually [TS]

00:19:47   really interesting right and I feel like that's a little bit in a way it's more [TS]

00:19:51   interesting for us as the you know like i always say criminal [TS]

00:19:54   just parse out what they're doing with this whereas if they had something [TS]

00:19:58   altogether knew that I get totally top secret thing to make the iphone only two [TS]

00:20:04   millimeters thick like ridiculously thin it's really just like a piece of glass [TS]

00:20:08   that looks like the phone from looper well that sells itself right it's like [TS]

00:20:15   that's not hard to pitch because you've got this thing that's like oh my god [TS]

00:20:18   just look at it I can't believe they made that whereas this is a lot more [TS]

00:20:21   strategic and it is it's it is this like for example this is the first time [TS]

00:20:26   they've made a third phone from a an industrial design right there was the [TS]

00:20:31   iphone 5 than 25 s now the new one sec is used is the first time they've reused [TS]

00:20:36   the design for the third time physical design [TS]

00:20:39   yeah I mean I guess you could get you could argue the 5c is is close to the [TS]

00:20:45   design of the others right it's just the back the back plate is kind of different [TS]

00:20:48   but but yeah it's I guess it's a classic now I mean if you think about it the [TS]

00:20:52   yeah before is that five is just an elongated for in a lot of ways so that's [TS]

00:20:58   so that's a design that has been with us for a very long time and well but [TS]

00:21:02   similar but not as similar as this where you could both you took the if you took [TS]

00:21:07   the white 1i mean that space black is different because they changed the color [TS]

00:21:10   with the 5 and 5s but i think if you took the white one with the regular [TS]

00:21:13   aluminum back you would really have to get close to be able to tell a 55 s yeah [TS]

00:21:18   there's a apart they're dead ringers I mean I brought a 5s with me to the event [TS]

00:21:24   that exists but this would be like this i took some pictures and I mean they're [TS]

00:21:28   dead ringers they they fit in the same cases the shame fur is Matt instead of [TS]

00:21:32   shiny ok the like the printing on the back is different and the apple on the [TS]

00:21:36   back is different cuz its I think screen printed in some way on the 5s and it's [TS]

00:21:40   like a stainless steel cut out like like the modern phones right on the on the [TS]

00:21:45   new one on the SE but otherwise I mean they are it's the same phone [TS]

00:21:49   it's not a it's not a rethink of what that phone should be like it is the old [TS]

00:21:54   design with new insides [TS]

00:21:56   yeah I sort of i think in a sense it to me makes it the it's like the all-time [TS]

00:22:03   best iphone design because it's the only one that got a third of their children [TS]

00:22:07   yeah I think I think [TS]

00:22:08   maybe you're right i have a soft spot for the original iphone design i was [TS]

00:22:11   saying to somebody the other day that I feel like the original iphone is both my [TS]

00:22:14   favorite design and also has some of the worst design elements in it of any [TS]

00:22:18   iphone but um I i do i kinda like how how rounded the that original iphone is [TS]

00:22:24   but but the five design is great and I like it a lot [TS]

00:22:28   I said somebody on Twitter was asking for an iphone SE case that is as close [TS]

00:22:33   as possible to the original iphone but you would have to be longer obviously [TS]

00:22:37   because the screens longer but that was a good design to it was it was although [TS]

00:22:41   i laughed and i got one here and I look at it every now and then a new iPhone [TS]

00:22:45   comes out and it's like the some of it is really beautiful and then there's [TS]

00:22:48   like the chrome because it's got like that soft brought like the brushed [TS]

00:22:51   aluminum back about the friends got the shiny chrome frame and I'm like wow [TS]

00:22:55   that's not I mean that they would not have ever done that after the fact it [TS]

00:23:00   was but that was what they did you can see they're just getting their feet wet [TS]

00:23:03   they were learning at that point I feel like they've come so far in terms of how [TS]

00:23:07   they fit pieces together in that in across all of their devices really like [TS]

00:23:13   if you look back and think to like the the titanium powerbook which was sort of [TS]

00:23:18   the forbearer of all modern power books and macbooks I mean in it means eve even [TS]

00:23:26   made of a different material they didn't get to aluminum added and there are a [TS]

00:23:29   lot of problems with titanium with the flaking off of the coding and but the [TS]

00:23:34   big difference to me was that they were little plastic pieces across all of the [TS]

00:23:38   scenes like they couldn't just make a corner out of titanium it it all needed [TS]

00:23:42   to be sealed up with a plastic corner in the original iphone sort of like that to [TS]

00:23:46   where they needed like a like a pc like literally it was like a piece of chrome [TS]

00:23:50   around the delay between the display in the aluminum and I'd like the black [TS]

00:23:54   cutout at the at the bottom that was like I mean it was just that was had [TS]

00:23:58   what they needed to do to assemble the thing and then and then the next [TS]

00:24:01   generation phones were the well what if we just have a big polycarbonate back [TS]

00:24:05   and and then with four was like alright we figured out how to do this and [TS]

00:24:09   everything comes from that just like you're right the titanium powerbook [TS]

00:24:12   every macbook has looked like that since then I mean within yeah and they've all [TS]

00:24:18   essentially you can tell they're all of a kind [TS]

00:24:20   that was the moment where they went from being like black and brown plastic 22 [TS]

00:24:25   being that that silver laptop that we know now right I mean just in little [TS]

00:24:30   ways i mean if you compare it for going to go down memory lane and compared to [TS]

00:24:33   the original iphone you can just see how the whole industry not just apple has [TS]

00:24:36   come so far and 15 years or so of like Wireless where wireless stuff you should [TS]

00:24:41   always have like an actual antenna [TS]

00:24:43   yeah no I mean like I remember seeing like a palm treo you'd be like an actual [TS]

00:24:48   antenna up in the upper right Clyde one of those yeah absolutely did and [TS]

00:24:52   everybody just accepted it because it was amazing you know I'm talking on the [TS]

00:24:56   phone and I'm not connected to any wires of course there's got to be an antenna [TS]

00:24:59   and then you know to go to come so far were like in 2007 we complained about [TS]

00:25:04   the black plastic on the back of the iphone because it would need to be [TS]

00:25:07   plastic to get the antenna signals through and it's quite complained about [TS]

00:25:12   that just because this didn't look great [TS]

00:25:14   yeah it's well it's it's kinda hard to think that it's been less than 10 years [TS]

00:25:19   and I at the whole industry i mean this has been talking about a lot it's not [TS]

00:25:25   just how much better people have gotten that phones which is absolutely true [TS]

00:25:28   everybody has gotten better at phones but the the drive to make smartphones in [TS]

00:25:32   the miniaturization of of all this attack has led to all of these other [TS]

00:25:36   spin-off devices because once you build these tiny computers that you could do [TS]

00:25:42   all sorts of other stuff with them too and it's less than 10 years thats i was [TS]

00:25:46   on some podcast where I said that I thought that in the end this the [TS]

00:25:50   smartphone the computer era would be seen as a footnote to the smartphone era [TS]

00:25:55   that was like remember when we first made computers you couldn't put them in [TS]

00:25:59   your pocket as opposed to how we think of it now which is oh now you can put a [TS]

00:26:03   computer in your pocket like I don't think in in terms of history that's how [TS]

00:26:07   we're going to think about it it's like it's already in less than 10 years [TS]

00:26:09   change so much about how people interact all around the world that you know that [TS]

00:26:15   that's end and has driven so much new technology [TS]

00:26:18   yeah totally all right back to the event so here's a question [TS]

00:26:24   let's go through i have my notes now I haven't let's go through in order so [TS]

00:26:27   hooked em cook comes out and starts with the weather is the 42nd 40 years and 40 [TS]

00:26:33   seconds thing which was delightful included a Newton joke people forget [TS]

00:26:39   that I mean our people don't know that that crossing out the Newton wasn't just [TS]

00:26:42   malicious that was the that was the actual pin stroke you use to erase a [TS]

00:26:46   word i didn't notice that they actually went to that detail I did not notice [TS]

00:26:51   that [TS]

00:26:51   oh yeah it's the is that little up and down zigzag across the word and then [TS]

00:26:55   what they didn't they didn't have time to have the little puff of smoke right [TS]

00:26:58   but that's I mean that was the Newton gesture for that that was right in my [TS]

00:27:01   room deep knowledge by whoever made that video with a little bit love ya and then [TS]

00:27:08   he came out any addressed the as we say the elephant in the room which was that [TS]

00:27:13   the time on monday apples pending court case against the FBI the next day and I [TS]

00:27:20   thought he spoke very well on it and that you'd spoken while on it ever since [TS]

00:27:25   this this issue started in early februari but I feel like he's he's [TS]

00:27:31   gotten it down to a much more compelling argument and he's 6 for example like [TS]

00:27:38   earlier like a few weeks ago he was comparing the creation of government [TS]

00:27:43   os/2 he analogize it to cancer and I think I know where he was going with [TS]

00:27:48   that but he's dropped that analogy and I think it's for the best yet he did [TS]

00:27:51   because it doesn't hold up as well and the main reason i think is because [TS]

00:27:55   cancer isn't man-made it's you know it's a this I mean there's man-made causes [TS]

00:28:01   that you can lead you to get it but it's you know the fact that it exists is on [TS]

00:28:06   an unfortunate aspect of nature and our biology right I i think it's if you're [TS]

00:28:13   going to go that route it's a little bit more like asking a company to make you [TS]

00:28:16   know requiring a company to manufacture chemical weapons but that's an analogy [TS]

00:28:21   that I don't think he wants to use I think it's a better analogy but i don't [TS]

00:28:24   think you want to use it because it's it's too unpleasant i thought that the [TS]

00:28:29   thing that he said that really was the way that I think that this should go is [TS]

00:28:33   when he said that we see are we even see our phones as an extension of ourselves [TS]

00:28:37   and that to me is the [TS]

00:28:40   that's the angle though that the disk i know that the case this particular case [TS]

00:28:44   has been dropped the issue is definitely not going to go away and I feel like [TS]

00:28:47   that's the angle to go toward in terms of yes we are actually building warrant [TS]

00:28:53   resistance phones [TS]

00:28:54   yeah you you diddle you have a post a link that i thought was really great [TS]

00:28:59   that was calling somebody on this argument like do we dare create a [TS]

00:29:06   warrant proof space [TS]

00:29:07   do we dare do that place where warrants can't reach and the point the point that [TS]

00:29:12   you link to that somebody said was are our minds are or improve place the [TS]

00:29:18   concept of a place that is and historically there have been other [TS]

00:29:22   places that are essentially war improved but certainly are our minds are ours and [TS]

00:29:27   I the the information in them is not subject to a warrant and I think that I [TS]

00:29:32   i thought the same thing when he said that this is this is the one of the key [TS]

00:29:37   part parts of apples argument is our phones are extensions of ourselves there [TS]

00:29:41   are there are not even back up brains they're part of our brains they are [TS]

00:29:46   where we keep information so we don't have to store it in our brains it makes [TS]

00:29:50   life better that way [TS]

00:29:52   this is how people live in the 21st century and therefore protecting that is [TS]

00:29:57   an extension of the protection that we've got essentially against [TS]

00:30:01   self-incrimination this is part of our this part of our mind and if if the math [TS]

00:30:06   means that the technology exists to lock something up and nobody can get to it [TS]

00:30:11   then we perhaps were all best off considering it that considering that the [TS]

00:30:18   extension of a warrant proof space that already exists on our mind so I [TS]

00:30:22   definitely you know he didn't go into it beyond just saying it's an extension of [TS]

00:30:25   ourselves but you know you you and I had the same thought which is that you read [TS]

00:30:30   between the lines there and that is what Apple is saying is you can't pry it out [TS]

00:30:33   of our head and my phone is part of my head it is it is it is who I am and if I [TS]

00:30:39   can make it so that you can't see what's in there then that's ok that's part of [TS]

00:30:44   that's part of the deal [TS]

00:30:46   yeah and then [TS]

00:30:49   the FBI called nevermind nevermind what you saw those that the legal analysis [TS]

00:30:57   again we're not lawyers but you have a legal analysis uh over the weekend in [TS]

00:31:00   the past week which is sort of like this isn't looking good for the FBI letter [TS]

00:31:04   there's so many reasons that this that this is that Apple seems to have the [TS]

00:31:09   advantage here and the tide seem to turn I think even publicly the I think the [TS]

00:31:14   FBI thought this was a slam dunk you know I think they thought that they were [TS]

00:31:17   going to be able to do this Apple was gonna roll over and the people are going [TS]

00:31:20   to be on their side because they're talking about terrorism and protecting a [TS]

00:31:23   terrorist phone and all of these things and then the tide starts to turn their [TS]

00:31:27   legal footing is is kind of not as solid as they thought it would be and then so [TS]

00:31:32   all of a sudden they say well we found another way so nevermind which even that [TS]

00:31:36   excuse is terrible because they basically said no no there is no other [TS]

00:31:40   way we've searched everywhere and everybody went really [TS]

00:31:43   and then there's like nevermind it's hard not to look at that and say that [TS]

00:31:47   the political calculation either they made it that this wasn't a good time to [TS]

00:31:51   do this or somebody else in the executive branch was like yeah don't [TS]

00:31:58   don't just cut just don't write or or go talk to the NSA or whatever whatever it [TS]

00:32:04   was that something happened figure out as graceful away as possible to get out [TS]

00:32:08   of this even if it's actually not graceful at all [TS]

00:32:11   yeah yeah and i think that it it backfired on the FBI in two ways is I [TS]

00:32:17   kind of I kind of get the feeling that they may be never thought that this [TS]

00:32:21   would go to actual trial but they thought it would be the other way that [TS]

00:32:25   the plan that public opinion would talk would go against apple so overwhelmingly [TS]

00:32:30   that ok Apple thinks they want to fight this but will you no will turn up the [TS]

00:32:35   temperature on the Terrorism dial and they'll still find out otherwise and [TS]

00:32:40   that didn't happen like in and it certainly is not the case that the [TS]

00:32:44   public was overwhelmingly in Apple's favor now but it was close to 50 50 and [TS]

00:32:49   from the polls that I did see you know it seemed like it was slowly moving in [TS]

00:32:53   Apple's favor it certainly wasn't backfiring on apple and i think that the [TS]

00:32:57   FBI wasn't prepared for that and then the FBI looked at the what their legal [TS]

00:33:01   arguments where I'm really [TS]

00:33:03   shit if we do this we go to trial this does not look good so what I any other [TS]

00:33:06   thing that they did that was sort of like just dancing around and you know [TS]

00:33:12   changing their mind it was like three or four like friday or thursday or friday [TS]

00:33:16   but three or four days before it was supposed to go to trial they changed [TS]

00:33:19   that they said we would like this to be an evidentiary hearing where we call [TS]

00:33:22   witnesses which you know it's not like that's unusual in and of itself but it's [TS]

00:33:29   unusual to do you know requested at the last minute and I have my theory and [TS]

00:33:32   again i'm just making this up i don't have any information to back it up but [TS]

00:33:36   my guess is that they they looked at the legal arguments that we're kind of [TS]

00:33:39   screwed [TS]

00:33:40   maybe if we call some witnesses we can make this a little bit less about the [TS]

00:33:43   facts in a little bit more like an emotional appeal you know got appeal to [TS]

00:33:49   you know we're trying to fight terrorism here and then I think they realized over [TS]

00:33:56   the weekend that really you know when they thought about it that really wasn't [TS]

00:33:59   gonna work either [TS]

00:34:00   yeah i think it is a combination of the law on the optics that happen to them [TS]

00:34:06   the objects you're exactly right i think they expected that the people would be [TS]

00:34:12   mixed on this and then when they heard about the details of Apple withholding [TS]

00:34:16   information from a terrorist that the public would swing to their side and it [TS]

00:34:20   didn't do that it was the reverse of that people learn more about this issue [TS]

00:34:24   and started to understand why Apple was fighting it so i think they've [TS]

00:34:27   miscalculated and then yeah they Apple brings in Ted Olson I mean Apple like [TS]

00:34:32   lawyer dup to to fight this as far as possible and you know I I think you put [TS]

00:34:39   those two together and and there's a and and they always had to have the [TS]

00:34:43   knowledge that there was even if they didn't know there were zero day exploits [TS]

00:34:45   that they could probably use in i'm sure they i'm sure they knew that they could [TS]

00:34:51   find one if they wanted it was like in her back pocket a little bit and so that [TS]

00:34:56   was the the escape hatches 00 we think let's put this on hold because not [TS]

00:35:00   dismissed it's just on hold for now but I I yeah it seems like it's seems like [TS]

00:35:05   though I any at one thing i noticed in its it really I don't you can overstate [TS]

00:35:11   how much Apple is truly standing on principle here [TS]

00:35:15   it and that it's you know whether you think it's good marketing or not and I [TS]

00:35:20   think that Apple really bristled at that accusation from the FBI that they were [TS]

00:35:23   doing this for marketing purposes because so it whether it helps them in [TS]

00:35:28   marketing or not is beside the point they truly at and obviously i think from [TS]

00:35:32   you know starting at the very top with tim cook right on down really see it as [TS]

00:35:37   a matter of principle and and the reason it's a little unusual to see a company [TS]

00:35:41   do something like that is that you could see it in the polling that that their [TS]

00:35:45   negatives as they say in politics have gone way up like it was like before this [TS]

00:35:52   like the last time the same polling group had it was like you know how many [TS]

00:35:55   people have an unfavorable opinion of apple and it was like eight percent [TS]

00:35:58   that's probably just a bunch of parrots like that people who hate the mac i hate [TS]

00:36:03   right it's the people who get into Mac versus PC flame war zone on the internet [TS]

00:36:09   but like as a like last week it was up to like twenty one percent or something [TS]

00:36:13   like that so like the number of people united states with an unfavorable [TS]

00:36:17   opinion of Apple like more than doubled almost tripled just because of this [TS]

00:36:22   issue just because of the very you know and and thinking about it and very broad [TS]

00:36:27   terms apple is spitefully not helping the FBI unlock phone that belongs to [TS]

00:36:31   terrorists and that's just like this that's the sort of PR that companies you [TS]

00:36:37   know for good reason [TS]

00:36:38   don't want yeah that's the worst the worst PR right you the easiest thing to [TS]

00:36:43   do is go along like that like all the phone companies did and like a lot of [TS]

00:36:46   tech companies have done which is just go along keep it quiet [TS]

00:36:49   don't talk about the tap that you put in for the government don't talk about this [TS]

00:36:53   look you know this work you do or this loophole that you've got and that [TS]

00:36:57   certainly the best right because then it's like nobody talks about it you you [TS]

00:37:01   risk having something like what happened with AT&T and blow up where it's [TS]

00:37:05   revealed that there's this warrantless wiretapping going on in your telecom [TS]

00:37:09   center you doing there are risks there but but still yeah apples putting itself [TS]

00:37:14   out there and they know they're going to get portrayed by the United States [TS]

00:37:17   government of all places the law-and-order wing of the United States [TS]

00:37:21   government as being on the side of terrorism essentially mean there's a [TS]

00:37:27   senator who [TS]

00:37:28   good in the Senate and declared that Apple was on the side of Isis right i [TS]

00:37:32   mean this is bad PR but i do think i do think that they had their principal than [TS]

00:37:37   it will talk about this whole section of the of the keynote or the media then not [TS]

00:37:41   just tim cook but when we went on to talk about the health stuff and about [TS]

00:37:46   the environment stuff to you know it is a PR calculation it's a media event it [TS]

00:37:51   is always going to be a PR calculation but i do believe that it's also a [TS]

00:37:56   cultural thing an apple that they did I don't believe they just do this for good [TS]

00:38:01   PR this is part of who they are and the philosophy they have about about their [TS]

00:38:06   products and how they're used [TS]

00:38:07   yeah i think that the environment thing is a perfect example of that because [TS]

00:38:12   however many people care about it i really think that the number of iphones [TS]

00:38:19   and ipads that they sell because Apple has a good stance toward the environment [TS]

00:38:23   is like you know you could one person could carry them upstairs yeah no I mean [TS]

00:38:28   it's not there are not very many people who are making their decision on what to [TS]

00:38:32   buy based on the environmental policies of the company [TS]

00:38:35   it's you know it did I think Lisa Jackson even said it that you can feel [TS]

00:38:39   good about Apple's environment at its it's a way to make you feel good about [TS]

00:38:43   it but it's not it's not going to sell it and it you can't help but think that [TS]

00:38:47   it's costing them a significant amount of money [TS]

00:38:50   yeah yeah I think I think so but they've been is one of those funny cases where I [TS]

00:38:55   feel like they turn the corner to that they got rebuked by Greenpeace like 10 [TS]

00:39:00   years ago and and within a year or two they started putting up that's that [TS]

00:39:05   slide that is on every product launch now which is the green checklist right [TS]

00:39:08   which you know they don't have to do that they really don't have to do it now [TS]

00:39:12   when they always just check all the boxes but they'd they they have done a [TS]

00:39:15   lot to make their products more recyclable and less less toxic and now [TS]

00:39:19   they're doing things where they're you know they're buying electricity it's not [TS]

00:39:23   all like it's not as if like they've got solar panels on other buildings and all [TS]

00:39:27   the buildings there is some of it is like there's a huge solar farm in [TS]

00:39:30   central California that they basically bought and said we want all the power [TS]

00:39:35   from this but they they want to they want to say that they want to talk about [TS]

00:39:38   that and [TS]

00:39:39   that is you know I again I think it's good PR because it is we care but I also [TS]

00:39:45   think that they do actually care [TS]

00:39:47   yeah and the other thing worth noting i mean it's dated but Lisa Jackson being [TS]

00:39:54   onstage is noteworthy because a she's never been on stage at an event before [TS]

00:39:58   and be you know in the last few years there's been a growing awareness that [TS]

00:40:04   most of the people [TS]

00:40:07   Apple puts up on stage are white men yep and anything anybody who's you know can [TS]

00:40:14   broaden the diversity of the people who are on stage it's a good thing in [TS]

00:40:21   multiple ways but it's a you know I brought up with his shoulder when he was [TS]

00:40:24   on the show at WWDC and and he made the point which is exactly what i suspected [TS]

00:40:29   is true is that it [TS]

00:40:33   it's not like they pick people to do you know like here's who's going to do this [TS]

00:40:37   its people who are responsible for the thing that they're pitching who do it [TS]

00:40:40   right like so when Josh comes up to do the iphone SE it josh is it not just a [TS]

00:40:46   person who does you know who does product marketing he's product marketing [TS]

00:40:50   for iphone yeah and so the fact that Lisa Jackson was onstage she wasn't [TS]

00:40:55   going to come out onstage to talk about the iphone SE it's because she's [TS]

00:40:58   literally in charge of apples it [TS]

00:41:00   environmental policy yeah I think I do think they're they're definitely making [TS]

00:41:05   an attempt I it is it seems to me that they're asking the question like how can [TS]

00:41:10   we how can we better you know reflect diversity on stage and in videos and all [TS]

00:41:18   those things and there they are not close to being sort of what you see from [TS]

00:41:22   a google event or even microsoft event but there you can see that they're [TS]

00:41:27   working on getting better i noticed not just Lisa Jackson but in the videos [TS]

00:41:32   there were there were two videos featuring apple employees and one of [TS]

00:41:39   them a video is narrated by an apple product manager who is asian and there [TS]

00:41:44   was one that was that featured one health videos featured and [TS]

00:41:49   a an apple employee who is an Indian woman and so I i did notice like the [TS]

00:41:53   people in the people it not and not just like the kids in the health study and [TS]

00:41:57   all that but that like the representatives of apple in those videos [TS]

00:42:00   were people we haven't seen before voices we hadn't heard before and who do [TS]

00:42:04   show some more of the diversity that is in existence and apple and you know what [TS]

00:42:09   i read that is that they're making an effort and it's not like I mean it's not [TS]

00:42:15   like there's an incredibly diverse group on stage and that Apple's totally turned [TS]

00:42:19   the corner I guess what I would say is that a I think there are aware of the [TS]

00:42:22   perception of it and are trying to take some steps but you know they got they [TS]

00:42:26   got more work to do but it was a it was good to see new new people from apple on [TS]

00:42:30   stage this is it's not just about Apple's diversity it's also like Apple [TS]

00:42:35   used to be the least diverse company in the world because there was literally [TS]

00:42:39   like a guy who did almost everything publicly right Steve Jobs wanted to be [TS]

00:42:44   the face of everything Apple did and you're saying they were at least diverse [TS]

00:42:48   in terms of their public trims the public persona because it was one guy [TS]

00:42:51   was teaching hubs was apple right and i think he cultivated that and he he was [TS]

00:42:56   he was good at it so why not do it and I feel like apples corporate culture is [TS]

00:43:00   still continues to unwind with katie cotton leaving and Steve Downie taking [TS]

00:43:04   over for NPR I I feel like they're still there still unwinding out to be like [TS]

00:43:10   lots of people are our work at Apple and let's get those voices on stage and it [TS]

00:43:14   was it started with sort of a small group of people who we already knew who [TS]

00:43:18   would pop up during Steve Jobs keynotes and now it keeps widening and I i [TS]

00:43:23   expected to keep doing that but it's kind of funny that you know I I really [TS]

00:43:27   think they have they they are trying to change but they have to change from a [TS]

00:43:32   model where like nobody gets on stage except steve and maybe a couple of [TS]

00:43:36   lieutenants and they don't I think they I think they know they need to not do [TS]

00:43:39   that anymore [TS]

00:43:40   yeah and I don't think they're ever going to go the route of Google who like [TS]

00:43:45   a google i/o keynote there might be 20 people who come on stage I maybe I'm [TS]

00:43:49   exaggerating a little but it's it's a lot it's a lot of people coming out for [TS]

00:43:53   brief you know [TS]

00:43:55   almost like individual features you know here's somebody else to do this on an [TS]

00:44:00   apple style of presentation is isn't going to change because i think that [TS]

00:44:04   they you know [TS]

00:44:05   yeah i think it works you know and i think they believe it works there's a [TS]

00:44:09   certain style to an apple show you know and it's it's fewer speakers coming out [TS]

00:44:15   for longer segments you know and then maybe somebody you know like a WC [TS]

00:44:20   there's a couple of things will have somebody come out to do the demo right [TS]

00:44:23   and then there's you know but it's just it's inherently a little different [TS]

00:44:29   the one thing with the Lisa Jackson thing I didn't comment on it i am i [TS]

00:44:33   right up on my thoughts and observations but one of the things that a couple of [TS]

00:44:37   readers called me on and i have to say correctly so is it's a little [TS]

00:44:43   disingenuous to write what I call her her segment on is the that they pitched [TS]

00:44:49   it as sort of like Apple is helping to save the climate and I think that's a [TS]

00:44:52   little it's a little self-centered because I don't really think apples [TS]

00:44:59   footprint as big as a company that they are is single-handedly really going to [TS]

00:45:02   move the dial on the overall climate at the planet i think that they should [TS]

00:45:06   pitch it more i really do because i think that i think this is working help [TS]

00:45:09   is pitch it more as we're setting an example that we want all of our other [TS]

00:45:13   fellow companies in the fortune 500 to follow [TS]

00:45:16   we're showing that it's possible to be a hundred percent renewable why is why [TS]

00:45:23   aren't other companies doing the same and i still believe that but the other [TS]

00:45:28   thing i didn't mention and I didn't think about it was that they they're [TS]

00:45:32   they're very carefully omitting their supply chains come from their [TS]

00:45:38   measurements right and I don't know it would be interesting I mean I'll because [TS]

00:45:42   that's one thing like Tim Cook is a numbers guy so I bet that he you know [TS]

00:45:47   has those numbers coming from Lisa Jackson's team which is what's the [TS]

00:45:51   what's the environmental footprint of of our supply chain when I would be [TS]

00:45:56   interested to know how big that is compared to the rest of apples [TS]

00:45:59   operations one of the interesting things on and I've seen Ben Thompson right [TS]

00:46:03   about this its protector a little bit [TS]

00:46:05   and my room as mom who is a science fiction writer but he also writes about [TS]

00:46:08   the future of renewable energies he's written about it a lot that china is [TS]

00:46:13   really changing it to the point where China's path to renewable energy from [TS]

00:46:19   coal basically is its rapid it's happening rapid rapidly because um [TS]

00:46:26   actually because their pollution is horrible but I it's interesting i wonder [TS]

00:46:33   if there's a there's something behind the scenes where they talk to their [TS]

00:46:36   supply chain and and are leaning on them to do this because I i think there's [TS]

00:46:40   opportunity in the grid in China knowing nothing about about the details of [TS]

00:46:45   Chinese energy systems but that the country as a whole is adding huge [TS]

00:46:50   amounts of renewables and it's going to keep doing that for a long time to come [TS]

00:46:54   so I i do wonder if that's happening in the background to that maybe there's [TS]

00:46:57   even a thought like look at these guys are all going to be switching to you [TS]

00:47:02   know or investing in you know solar in China and well there are advantages to [TS]

00:47:08   running an authoritarian hand government I mean right and you know you can make [TS]

00:47:13   the trains run on time a little easier [TS]

00:47:15   yeah well I I just don't know how to handle the grid and whether you can't [TS]

00:47:18   you can say like we're gonna buy power here and we want the credit for that [TS]

00:47:21   being our power the the that wind farm that you built let's say that that's the [TS]

00:47:25   horn high wind farm and and that's that I mean that's the truth of a grid in [TS]

00:47:29   general is that you're essentially buying offsets I mean when Apple when [TS]

00:47:33   Apple puts the know that that solar farm that south of monterey to work [TS]

00:47:40   it's not like there's an apple campus right there that's wired to it goes [TS]

00:47:44   right or a big cable one big one big to our court like the john fogerty video [TS]

00:47:50   yeah just plug it in and then you got it no it goes into the grid and and then [TS]

00:47:54   the electrons are in the grid and then they take but they get the credit for [TS]

00:47:58   that generation so you know electricity is weird but they're there they're [TS]

00:48:02   trying and i would imagine that that that the supply chain is probably going [TS]

00:48:05   to get better just because I get the impression that the energy mix in China [TS]

00:48:08   is going to get better but you know who knows you're you're you're right i'm [TS]

00:48:12   sure tim cook knows well they're conspicuously avoided mentioning it [TS]

00:48:17   and you know I don't know I don't really blame them i think if you know if I was [TS]

00:48:21   on their team i probably would have said yeah we don't know this is not mention [TS]

00:48:24   it yeah i think i think you're right though Apple wants to be a I think it [TS]

00:48:27   would be great of Apple was just more an example of like look this is how a big [TS]

00:48:30   company can do this and if you want to be a big company that can say look we're [TS]

00:48:34   standing up and we're going to be under percent renewables by this date you can [TS]

00:48:38   do it because Apple did it and he and even say like here's what it costs us [TS]

00:48:41   and it's realistic about how much it costs so that it you know because that's [TS]

00:48:46   one of the arguments always like well we don't know it's a mystery and apple [TS]

00:48:49   could say no we know and you can follow our lead this is how much it will cost [TS]

00:48:53   you to do this you know [TS]

00:48:54   so then the last part of the Lisa Jackson's part of the show was the [TS]

00:48:58   introduction of Liam the iphone deconstructing robot which was kind of a [TS]

00:49:04   surprise i mean because apple doesn't really show you a bunch behind the you [TS]

00:49:10   know behind the stage ever right and it's sort of an interestingly my and i [TS]

00:49:17   wrote about it like my thing is I can't help but wonder if they're same people [TS]

00:49:21   working on Liam the deconstructing robot are also working on a sibling robot who [TS]

00:49:28   puts phones together because I before we ever got a look at the you know an apple [TS]

00:49:35   started publishing photos of you know like the inside of the foxconn factories [TS]

00:49:41   are assembly lines i guess it's a better way to put it you know like when Tim [TS]

00:49:44   Cook started going there and there were photo ops and you could see it it it a I [TS]

00:49:49   shouldn't have been surprised but like my gut feeling was that I thought it [TS]

00:49:52   would be a lot more automated and because there are things you know like [TS]

00:49:55   like when you see like a car factory and auto auto factory a lot of it is [TS]

00:50:00   roboticized whereas putting these electronics together is largely a rat [TS]

00:50:05   least today is largely a baby manual job [TS]

00:50:08   yeah I wonder and I don't know whether that's something that does Apple do that [TS]

00:50:12   or just Apple talk to their manufacturers about doing that is Apple [TS]

00:50:16   Reno work with them and and say we want to reinvent how this you know how this [TS]

00:50:20   goes on so that the people working in the factories or supervising the robots [TS]

00:50:25   rather than doing all the work themselves on that would certainly [TS]

00:50:28   reduce the number of people working in the factories which is certainly [TS]

00:50:30   the auto industry in the United States had problems right because you lost a [TS]

00:50:35   lot of jobs that way but I don't know it's it would be it's fascinating to me [TS]

00:50:40   because this is like this is a people think people talked about the problems [TS]

00:50:43   of recycling electronics for a long time but I felt like there was never a [TS]

00:50:46   drumbeat on it like there was about some other stuff but this is definitely you [TS]

00:50:49   know the the seems to be almost in the same class as some of the other tech [TS]

00:50:53   that we know exists back in the back of the apple store where it's like it's in [TS]

00:50:57   Apple's benefit to have a recycling program and they refurbished phones and [TS]

00:51:01   they can disassemble the parts and reuse them and how much of this is about being [TS]

00:51:07   friendly to the earth and how much of this is about like it good business [TS]

00:51:12   sense to why don't we why don't we reclaim all of these things and and put [TS]

00:51:16   them back to use I don't know it would be an interesting who builds that who [TS]

00:51:19   builds Liam do you get a job as a an engineer at apple and then discover that [TS]

00:51:23   rather than building like the new iphone you're building a device to take apart [TS]

00:51:28   iPhone fives [TS]

00:51:29   yeah maybe I guess so i can't help but think that it was that it to apple [TS]

00:51:33   design machine [TS]

00:51:34   yeah well they said it's in California so yeah I i assume so [TS]

00:51:38   yeah pretty cool stuff and then they gave mashable like a nice [TS]

00:51:42   behind-the-scenes look at it which is another sign of the modern yeah [TS]

00:51:47   new apple i also before I guess before we move on the other thing too and to [TS]

00:51:54   Tim Cook even I guess you mentioned it at the end but that it's you know if [TS]

00:51:58   everything goes according to schedule this will be that will be that was the [TS]

00:52:01   last event they're going to hold on campus right on on that on that campus [TS]

00:52:05   on that campus right I and a couple of people and I guess it's just I i [TS]

00:52:13   overlooked how some of the things that I find obvious but other people don't but [TS]

00:52:16   a couple of readers were like he just say that they're not gonna release [TS]

00:52:19   anything new this year and the answer's no no that's not the point its that the [TS]

00:52:25   schedule that Apple has been on the pattern that they've kind of centered on [TS]

00:52:29   is really sort of a three public event year schedule something in March which [TS]

00:52:33   is what we just had [TS]

00:52:34   a varying you know important depending on whether they have something majorly [TS]

00:52:40   new to announce it or not [TS]

00:52:42   WWDC in middle of June which is probably mostly software-based but maybe that's [TS]

00:52:48   what the hold the new macbooks for I don't know I don't know the release [TS]

00:52:52   these new macbooks like with a press release between now and $YEAR WGC or [TS]

00:52:56   hold them until WWDC but that's my guess is that the whole bunch of us will get a [TS]

00:53:00   call saying would you like to do that for a briefing and they'll say we have [TS]

00:53:02   new macbooks and here's the burrito and the press release will go out and that [TS]

00:53:05   would be like at the end of april or something like that [TS]

00:53:08   yeah and then in September there will certainly be a major event but they [TS]

00:53:12   don't it's because it's a major event they're not gonna hold it in their tiny [TS]

00:53:15   little town hall they're going to hold it like last year at the bill graham [TS]

00:53:19   auditory night or the front center of the year before that or you know you [TS]

00:53:22   were your bueno or Moscow knee West sometimes but they'll find a big venue [TS]

00:53:26   somewhere for that you don't think they've ever done moscone west other [TS]

00:53:29   than for macworld or WTF is happening not i think they did I think I'm sure [TS]

00:53:35   somebody out there screaming at their car right now that they did my memory is [TS]

00:53:38   that they have done a single freestanding Moscow knee West event but [TS]

00:53:43   it's probably that is booked up i think it maybe it was just luck that there was [TS]

00:53:47   some week where it wasn't booked where they could just drop in and do it but [TS]

00:53:50   and they also can't just do it for a day right because we know Apple they they [TS]

00:53:53   have days of prep to get a space exactly the way they want it so that they can't [TS]

00:53:57   just rent it for a day right i think i have my gut feeling is that were that [TS]

00:54:01   your buena is a thing of the past again because its size [TS]

00:54:05   yeah there if there were 50 it's not that much bigger than town hall [TS]

00:54:09   yeah it's and it's and it's a lot of custom prep work to get the hands-on [TS]

00:54:15   area they built that only they built a whole new hands on thing the last time [TS]

00:54:21   anywhere between the last time they did here between that they actually cut a [TS]

00:54:23   hole in the wall because they actually took a wall out I remember asking that's [TS]

00:54:29   Apple yeah well I built they build buildings essentially at at bill graham [TS]

00:54:34   and at the flint center [TS]

00:54:37   I think Katie cotton was still there at the time and I and I spoke to somebody [TS]

00:54:40   there like it towards the end like as they were getting ready to kick us out [TS]

00:54:43   of the hands on [TS]

00:54:44   area and I was like this like insanely expensive because you guys have to like [TS]

00:54:47   rebuild the wall and she's like yeah we don't care [TS]

00:54:49   yeah that's right let me take another break here before we move on into the [TS]

00:54:55   next segment of apple's event and thank our good friends another longtime [TS]

00:54:59   sponsor the show you guys know them [TS]

00:55:01   Squarespace Squarespace is it's the all in one place to host design customise [TS]

00:55:09   and build your own website any kind of website almost any website you can even [TS]

00:55:16   imagine that you might want to start you really ought to look at Squarespace [TS]

00:55:22   first go to squarespace com and the a he just cannot emphasize enough you have [TS]

00:55:30   stuff like podcast you can host a podcast Squarespace they even have like [TS]

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00:55:36   that you can close the blog you have a store you can you can build your own [TS]

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00:55:44   credit card taking stuff all of it is built in and you just do it when you're [TS]

00:55:50   customizing it I it is like using a design app it is not like sitting there [TS]

00:55:55   and doing code or you know moving little snippets of code around although you can [TS]

00:55:59   get into the code if you want to but you literally just drag stuff around and [TS]

00:56:04   it's exactly how web design should be you just sit there and you're you're [TS]

00:56:09   actually manipulating the actual website itself that you're logged into it's not [TS]

00:56:13   like there's an editing interface and a regular face when you're signed in and [TS]

00:56:17   you it's your Squarespace account you just sit there and you manipulated in [TS]

00:56:21   true what you see is what you get style because it's actually what you're moving [TS]

00:56:25   is the actual website really just can't emphasize enough how easy that is so my [TS]

00:56:32   thanks to squarespace go to squarespace.com and use the code Gruber [TS]

00:56:38   my last name Gruber and you will save ten percent off your first order [TS]

00:56:43   squarespace.com offer code grouper so use that code and mules they'll know you [TS]

00:56:51   came from from the show my thanks to squarespace if you have any kind of [TS]

00:56:54   website that you may want [TS]

00:56:56   to build go there first and try it and you'll probably not even move on to [TS]

00:57:00   anything else [TS]

00:57:01   my thanks to squarespace so then Jeff Williams comes out and like I was [TS]

00:57:07   sitting next to Matthew pensare know in any audience and when jeff williams was [TS]

00:57:11   done and he was like let me hand this off you know handed back to Tim I was [TS]

00:57:15   like Isis whispered to Matthew I was like let me hand things off to my [TS]

00:57:18   brother [TS]

00:57:20   it's uncanny how similar jeff williams and timken onstage demeanor is it [TS]

00:57:28   I can't believe more people don't don't comment on it [TS]

00:57:31   yeah they they seem similar there there [TS]

00:57:35   tim is more polished but teams had more time to be more polished yeah but Jeff [TS]

00:57:39   Williams is sort of like where where Tim Cook was when Tim was the coo for steve [TS]

00:57:43   jobs and would occasionally come out onstage to talk about like how well the [TS]

00:57:47   mac is doing or something like that [TS]

00:57:49   yeah you know one of the things we did so you know going into the town hall [TS]

00:57:52   event I had that realization like friday that it's probably the last one and I [TS]

00:57:56   went to Stephen Hackett and I said you would you be interested in working with [TS]

00:57:59   me on a piece like looking back at town hall and we and we had a bit he he [TS]

00:58:03   replied with a list of youtube videos of every town hall event since 2001 that [TS]

00:58:07   Stephen Hackett in a nutshell that's crazy and I was looking at him and it [TS]

00:58:12   was a fun story to put together we sort of split the work i've been to all of [TS]

00:58:14   them so I'd like little tidbits like when they took us upstairs to the dorm [TS]

00:58:18   room the dorm room for the ipod hifi and I wasn't there for the Ono that was so [TS]

00:58:22   that was that was so weird and there were some others like that or I remember [TS]

00:58:27   and the original ipod event i remember going to that but what one of the funny [TS]

00:58:32   things is that the xserve event which was in may 2002 has like super early Tim [TS]

00:58:40   Cook and it's interesting to see how far we've come since early tim cook it was [TS]

00:58:45   explaining the sales strategy of the xserve he's come a long way in the in [TS]

00:58:49   the intervening 14 years [TS]

00:58:51   yeah it's really it's it's it that the comparison to jeff williams interesting [TS]

00:58:56   cause a there it's just funny to me how similar they are how much it would be so [TS]

00:59:00   easily to believe that they were brothers [TS]

00:59:03   but it's also an interesting contrast in terms like you said like how much more [TS]

00:59:06   polished Tim Cook has gotten out how really good he's gotten on stage I think [TS]

00:59:12   he's I think he's relaxed a little bit i think he realizes he doesn't need to be [TS]

00:59:15   steve jobs right which is like and I don't mean that in a row you gotta fill [TS]

00:59:19   his shoes but more like Steve set the template like you said at these apple [TS]

00:59:22   events Apple knows what it's doing [TS]

00:59:24   I wrote a piece of macro couple weeks but go about how everybody doesn't apple [TS]

00:59:27   event like Apple defined this corporate tech media event thing but its use the [TS]

00:59:33   template then then even if Steve's gone there is a moment where you struggle of [TS]

00:59:37   like how do i how do i do this was my way of doing it instead of sort of just [TS]

00:59:41   reading Steve's lines for him and I feel like Tim Cook has gotten there now where [TS]

00:59:46   it's it's it's an apple event and it's always going to be have the echoes of [TS]

00:59:50   the Steve Jobs events but he just seems more comfortable in his own skin on [TS]

00:59:54   stage he smiles a lot more that's the thing I kept taking pictures because I i [TS]

00:59:59   do that [TS]

00:59:59   do that [TS]

01:00:00   these apple events and you know he used to be kind of serious and he would [TS]

01:00:05   occasionally have like a super awkward grin that he would be like smile for the [TS]

01:00:09   camera and he just seems to mean whether he's not like he could be completely [TS]

01:00:14   torn up inside and terrified for all I know but on stage he's projecting what [TS]

01:00:20   seems like completely legitimate happiness about being up there and so I [TS]

01:00:24   I do feel like he's kind of completely embraced his role now and knows what he [TS]

01:00:29   knows who he is on stage and what his public persona is and has has come to [TS]

01:00:33   terms with it because he yeah I think he's coming he's never he's going to be [TS]

01:00:37   Tim Cook he's never going to be anything but that but he just feel like he's [TS]

01:00:40   genuinely tim cook now [TS]

01:00:41   yeah and i feel that i couldn't say it better myself and I think that that's it [TS]

01:00:46   it doesn't matter how naturally talented you are at anything you kind of have to [TS]

01:00:50   do it for a little before you settle into it [TS]

01:00:52   sure right it's like you know III I knew how to write when I started daring [TS]

01:00:57   fireball but if you read the first few entries you know first year or two of [TS]

01:01:00   daring fireball there's a certain tone that's not it's not poorly written but [TS]

01:01:04   it's not it it's not right you know or when you look at the first few years of [TS]

01:01:10   like any of your favorite comic strips like peanuts or even calvin and hobbes [TS]

01:01:14   it's like they're not the characters aren't quite drawn right yeah okay sure [TS]

01:01:19   they're off off model i remember when i was a kid reading the Garfield books and [TS]

01:01:22   you start with behind your like what the hell is this this is not car filled it [TS]

01:01:26   looks like a parody of cardiac something that's a bit it and then it settles in [TS]

01:01:30   you know and then the natural you know it and I feel like you know Tim Cook's [TS]

01:01:34   onstage persona is exactly like that and he has settled in like saying that he's [TS]

01:01:38   more comfortable is just more himself is exactly it and I used to say bye before [TS]

01:01:46   when Steve Jobs was still around but you know when it you know for obvious [TS]

01:01:50   reasons it was people worse we were all speculate about what would happen [TS]

01:01:54   post steve jobs and I used to say I guess it's still true in theory that [TS]

01:01:59   it's not necessarily it doesn't have to be the case that the CEO of Apple is the [TS]

01:02:03   the spokesman right company and that you know Tim could just be the CEO and phil [TS]

01:02:11   schiller could run the event [TS]

01:02:13   and in a way i was i think i was right in a way I was wrong [TS]

01:02:17   where I was right and so far as that Tim cooked almost never cells cells the new [TS]

01:02:22   products he always hands off to somebody to actually pitched the products which [TS]

01:02:27   is obviously the what you know Steve Jobs just did it all himself but I do [TS]

01:02:31   kind of feel like it's important that he's sort of the host of the show there [TS]

01:02:35   is a certain look that the buck stops here right this is mine this is my [TS]

01:02:40   company [TS]

01:02:40   this is why we're doing what we're doing I i thought there would be less of him [TS]

01:02:43   honestly I thought he would do that thing where you come up with the [TS]

01:02:46   beginning and give the you know retail up Dave cohorts that they have even [TS]

01:02:50   doing this but that the company's business and then hand it off and he did [TS]

01:02:54   this for I think at least one event handed off essentially not come back [TS]

01:02:57   until the end and come back on station so they see this is why we do what we do [TS]

01:03:01   only Apple can do this thanks for being here goodbye and that would be it but [TS]

01:03:04   his presence is he's much more like the glue that holds the thing together than [TS]

01:03:09   I thought he yes he did and I don't think he needed he could've had Phil [TS]

01:03:12   Schiller do that right but right he hasn't and he's done a good job at it [TS]

01:03:16   yeah it's a little bit more like the host of the Oscars exactly where there's [TS]

01:03:20   certainly are you know you did a lot of the Oscar show is your some you know [TS]

01:03:24   famous actor comes out to give the award for whatever so it's not like the host [TS]

01:03:28   does it all but the host does glue every segment together and now exactly i feel [TS]

01:03:32   exactly like you did I did not think we'd see as much of Tim Cook events like [TS]

01:03:36   this as we do but it's you know it's all good [TS]

01:03:39   yeah jeff williams care kit [TS]

01:03:42   sounds like a big deal i I don't know what to make of it though you know like [TS]

01:03:47   its it i'm not quite sure how that's going to work [TS]

01:03:51   I mean it's just so far as the outside of the mainstream i think i think the [TS]

01:03:55   answer is going to be that in a year we're going to hear like we did about [TS]

01:03:58   some of the health stuff in in a year and the research get stuff will hear oh [TS]

01:04:03   well this is how care kit is being used to help patients but beyond that I mean [TS]

01:04:08   it's it unless you're what I what I hope is that we'll see something from [TS]

01:04:13   somebody who covers like healthcare the and and and research and and medical [TS]

01:04:19   stuff write a story or write stories about what's going on here with this [TS]

01:04:23   because it's their area of expertise way more than [TS]

01:04:25   is that it is ours i mean i-i know some doctors and I've talked to them about [TS]

01:04:30   apple stuff and they say well it looks cool but unless you know somebody who's [TS]

01:04:34   actually doing a research project that is using this tack it's harder to get a [TS]

01:04:39   get a sense of what's going on I think it's great that they're doing it I i [TS]

01:04:43   think this comes back to those corporate values again where apple looks at these [TS]

01:04:46   devices and says we're making these devices and putting them in people's [TS]

01:04:49   pockets and it can change their lives [TS]

01:04:52   who's gonna you know who's going to make the tools that make the medical industry [TS]

01:04:56   capable of doing this make it should be is where the platform owner we should do [TS]

01:05:00   this and I I I think it's good that they're they're doing that but I don't [TS]

01:05:05   know how to judge it [TS]

01:05:06   yeah I thought it was pretty interesting because it just have a little bit of [TS]

01:05:09   first-hand experience in the last few years with surgery that that the the [TS]

01:05:15   thing he said like you in the hospital and you have the best people possible [TS]

01:05:19   who do this all day every day and have up-to-the-minute knowledge dealing with [TS]

01:05:24   every aspect of you you know everything you're hooked up to every way you're [TS]

01:05:27   monitored the timing of everything is all taken care of by truly expert [TS]

01:05:31   professionals and then when you're discharged they give you this and it's [TS]

01:05:34   just like a sheet of paper yeah and it's lit it's so funny it was like not an [TS]

01:05:38   exaggeration like one of my finger my I everything every little surgery I've had [TS]

01:05:42   in the last few years that is that how they discharge you that give you like a [TS]

01:05:46   piece of paper and I do read them and i followed the instructions like [TS]

01:05:51   religiously because I you know I want these that you know I wanted my finger [TS]

01:05:55   to actually work again I would you know was hoping that I would be able to see [TS]

01:05:58   out of my left eye again but I can totally understand though how like a lot [TS]

01:06:02   of people don't [TS]

01:06:03   for whatever reason you know that they just don't think it's important or or [TS]

01:06:07   whatever I wonder how much better putting it you know getting it into your [TS]

01:06:12   phone will be i can see how it might be a lot better if you can get like if you [TS]

01:06:16   can automate the hey you know it you know just like getting a text message [TS]

01:06:20   you get an alert like without you having to manually set the alarm if you could [TS]

01:06:24   just get the alert that says it's time to you know take one of your pills now [TS]

01:06:29   or check your blood pressure or your Bureau or your you know anything like [TS]

01:06:33   that your blood oxygen count or whatever it is that they're that they're looking [TS]

01:06:37   for [TS]

01:06:38   yeah and and [TS]

01:06:39   I mean that's the it's a little bit like all the fitness stuff right it is the [TS]

01:06:42   flipside to fit yes that's it that's I think that's exactly the model [TS]

01:06:46   yeah because it's still it's still you know logging in motivation of date [TS]

01:06:49   personal data and the difference here is that somebody is monitoring it for you [TS]

01:06:54   because they're concerned about your you know specific health issues rather than [TS]

01:06:57   it just being sort of you saying how much how many steps and i do how much [TS]

01:07:01   that I run today right or you know but now if it's you know like a surgery like [TS]

01:07:04   I had on my finger somebody else might have on their knee or hip or something [TS]

01:07:07   like that you know not just stand up but it's time to do these stretching [TS]

01:07:11   exercises i would totally i did some physical therapy and I totally this is [TS]

01:07:17   the podcast world man talk about injuries [TS]

01:07:18   um I just physical therapy on my shoulder and it was always a challenge [TS]

01:07:23   for me when I came back because they had a whole regimen down and they gave me [TS]

01:07:27   like the sheet of paper with some exercises circled in this like really [TS]

01:07:30   bad illustrations and I and I had done the exercises like how do i do that [TS]

01:07:35   again and it fell apart very quickly and I did have that thought of like you know [TS]

01:07:40   would it be would have been better if I had sat down with some app and put in [TS]

01:07:45   like a series of reminders or calendar events or something to get me to do this [TS]

01:07:52   and the answer is probably yes but that and that was my failure is that I just [TS]

01:07:56   sort of like took the piece of paper and figured I'd get to it and I never did [TS]

01:07:59   yeah I also think and I think it's you know we we mentioned this earlier in the [TS]

01:08:03   show this whole endeavor by apple with research kit and care kit isn't really [TS]

01:08:09   selling phones right it's it really is a you know and as much as we can bitch [TS]

01:08:16   about Apple jealously guarding its margins by still selling 16-gigabyte [TS]

01:08:24   devices instead of starting everything 32 there's an area these areas like the [TS]

01:08:29   environment and health kit and well maybe not healthcare but but research [TS]

01:08:34   care kit for sure aren't really about selling you know devices i really do [TS]

01:08:40   think it's it is an institutional this is the right thing to do [TS]

01:08:43   we're in a position to do this and we should do it we're making the world a [TS]

01:08:46   better place right i think i think it's almost like it's incumbent on us because [TS]

01:08:49   we've got a popular platform I don't know if google has similar in [TS]

01:08:53   videos I kind of hope they do because it's as a platform owner you kind of [TS]

01:08:56   need to be the one to say yeah we're going to make this easier for these [TS]

01:08:58   industries to work on our platform i think and i think that its exact sort of [TS]

01:09:02   thing that google would do to get it does seem like the sort of you know that [TS]

01:09:06   that without any sort of cynicism at all thats you know it is the sort of thing [TS]

01:09:11   that google would want to do I mean you you're responsible for this [TS]

01:09:15   these devices that are on everybody's bodies they can make a huge impact but [TS]

01:09:19   they probably need a push because the industry is not monolithic enough [TS]

01:09:24   probably to create an initiative to do it but you're the platform owner you [TS]

01:09:27   could do it and then you you could help them and they're there are eventual [TS]

01:09:31   benefits i think from in terms of sales like if you've got health care [TS]

01:09:35   professionals and the healthcare industry really happy about how I Apple [TS]

01:09:39   listens to them and does all of this maybe in the end they are more inclined [TS]

01:09:43   to buy ipads or whatever but it's super interact I it it's not like research kit [TS]

01:09:50   is going to you know sell thousands of iphones I think you're right about that [TS]

01:09:53   I'm so then Tim Cook came back onstage and talked about Apple watch and and [TS]

01:10:02   this is a perfect example of the sort of thing that years ago I would not have [TS]

01:10:05   expected to cook the handle was that it was Tim Cook who introduced the new and [TS]

01:10:10   again sound but blockbuster news but new new watch straps across the line on our [TS]

01:10:17   spara what did he say our spring colors [TS]

01:10:19   yeah well i think you know I it's it's not just gently tweaked I definitely see [TS]

01:10:28   this as some kind of strategic move on Apple's part that they really are like [TS]

01:10:31   every six months going to you know I i fully expect in September that you know [TS]

01:10:36   probably new watch hardware in September we can talk about that in a moment to [TS]

01:10:38   but you know new bands to rom a couple of things one thing is that they reduce [TS]

01:10:47   the price the starting price for this the sport models drop 50 bucks so now [TS]

01:10:53   it's a 299 starting price for the 38 millimeters support i didn't check even [TS]

01:10:57   as did the did the bigger sport model also dropped 50 bucks how I didn't check [TS]

01:11:01   you i think so i think the sport Sport drop 50 i think that was the story [TS]

01:11:06   sport drop 50 that the first I some mentorship why didn't they drop the [TS]

01:11:10   addition fish that joke is like that's good yeah yeah but you know you want to [TS]

01:11:15   lower entry costs [TS]

01:11:17   I and you know i got into it did you post a brief post on during fireball the [TS]

01:11:23   day where somebody in a otherwise an article about something else just [TS]

01:11:26   offhandedly mentioned that it's it seems like it's a sign that the watch is [TS]

01:11:29   selling lower-than-expected because they dropped the price and I don't think [TS]

01:11:34   that's necessarily true at all i think that the watch is it could be but I [TS]

01:11:40   don't think you should draw that conclusion i think because it was [TS]

01:11:42   announced it's been out for a year but it was announced 18 months ago [TS]

01:11:47   yeah that in 18 months the idea that they could man you you know cut the [TS]

01:11:51   price by 50 bucks and keep the margin around the same is a very apple-like [TS]

01:11:54   thing to do and then on Twitter some people called me out and said well when [TS]

01:11:58   the Apple never drops the price of anything like macbooks are all in Estill [TS]

01:12:01   899 and 999 and it's true for certain products they kind of try to keep a [TS]

01:12:08   price and keep it there but on others like and I would compare that especially [TS]

01:12:13   the sport watch I would compare to the ipod in terms of what kind of product [TS]

01:12:18   that mean it is to apple and you know the price points are similar and the [TS]

01:12:22   ipods regularly dropped in price or at least the starting price of an ipod drop [TS]

01:12:26   by like 50 bucks or so pretty steadily year after year after year until they [TS]

01:12:30   got it down to you know well you know fifty dollar ones that you attached here [TS]

01:12:37   jacket right so I see that as something that I i think you know that will see [TS]

01:12:45   you know eventually you know maybe a year or two from now that the starting [TS]

01:12:48   price will go to 199 and i don't know i don't know what the bottom is but it's [TS]

01:12:52   probably like 149 or something like that i think you're right i think if you look [TS]

01:12:55   at the price would you if you look at a price when it came out you have to say [TS]

01:12:59   is it apples intent that the Apple watch to get into an apple watch will always [TS]

01:13:04   be three 49er or 400 bucks or something like that is that is it really their [TS]

01:13:09   long-term plan that this will always be four hundred dollar product [TS]

01:13:12   no absolutely not absolutely not that's too expensive it is it's a [TS]

01:13:17   first-generation product that's what they have to sell it at but [TS]

01:13:20   the long run it's got to be cheaper than that right there to start at least it [TS]

01:13:24   has to be so I think that's part of it i think ya there [TS]

01:13:27   it's a it's a product has been out there a long time they wanna they want more [TS]

01:13:30   people in the Apple watch world right so you lower the price a little bit you've [TS]

01:13:34   got margin to give now I think it I think it's fine [TS]

01:13:37   I i do think that if they were selling every single one that they could make [TS]

01:13:40   and where supply constrained they wouldn't lower the price right but you [TS]

01:13:44   know obviously not at that part of the cycle right but I think you're right if [TS]

01:13:47   if Apple could make an apple watch ultimately making apple watch with good [TS]

01:13:51   margins 450 bucks they would they would prefer to do that because this is an [TS]

01:13:56   iphone accessory I think they would rather have the volume go up and then [TS]

01:14:00   again keeping in mind even if you sold it a hundred fifty bucks you got [TS]

01:14:03   watchbands and then you've got your fancier models that are always going to [TS]

01:14:07   be there and always gonna be enticing people on the ought to spend more money [TS]

01:14:11   i was talking to Mike early on our our podcast and he he listed off all the [TS]

01:14:16   watch bands that he's bond it's like he has spent as much on watch bands for the [TS]

01:14:21   Apple watches he spent on the Apple watch right i mean so I was just that [TS]

01:14:25   was an interesting number from tim on stage it was something that they had to [TS]

01:14:28   my knowledge has never revealed before he said one-third of their Apple watch [TS]

01:14:31   customers regularly change bands [TS]

01:14:33   yeah and I'm in there I've got like I've got like three and i definitely cycle [TS]

01:14:38   between them here and it's kind of fun to him not in that makes it a little bit [TS]

01:14:42   different for a few weeks I and I switch back [TS]

01:14:45   yeah i got apple gave me and the the new space black one with Milanese as yeah to [TS]

01:14:54   review which is nice [TS]

01:14:57   I'd I like it more than I i I've worn a couple days this week i kinda don't like [TS]

01:15:03   it though it for exactly the reason that I thought which is that I i kinda where [TS]

01:15:07   my watch out at the hinge of my wrist and so it's sort of like when i flex my [TS]

01:15:12   wrist it it puts a little stress on the band and the Milanese lips a little grab [TS]

01:15:17   it as the way I where I feel like like i'd i would need to wear it a little bit [TS]

01:15:21   higher on my wrist to keep it snug but i also got the nylon band and I like that [TS]

01:15:26   a lot and i love the new nylon strap they there was a rumor that they were [TS]

01:15:31   going to do like full-on like nato straps [TS]

01:15:33   and it's it's very i was struck by something that Marco Arment set on on [TS]

01:15:38   ATP the other week which isn't he he's kind of like abandoned the apple watch [TS]

01:15:41   is going to mechanical watches and all that [TS]

01:15:43   always off the deep end he's he's you know he it's marco he doesn't do [TS]

01:15:47   anything halfway right but but what struck me about about somebody who's not [TS]

01:15:51   into the apple watch anymore has moved on said and has done like real watches [TS]

01:15:56   said said apples bands are like second to none [TS]

01:15:59   I will really really owns the the watch band game i agree with that i think the [TS]

01:16:02   bands are really great i bought this kickstarter thing that gets you use any [TS]

01:16:06   watch band with its good just a couple of logs for the Apple watch and i put [TS]

01:16:10   this black leather band that I had on him and it's terrible like in context [TS]

01:16:15   compared to the apple leather band [TS]

01:16:16   she's not even close and so that nato strap rumor was interesting and it is it [TS]

01:16:22   surprising at all that in in the end what Apple did you say we've got [TS]

01:16:26   something that's kind of like that but it's way better and yeah and then that's [TS]

01:16:29   what the this woman stuff is like apples take on the john ruan of nato strap but [TS]

01:16:34   not not the same [TS]

01:16:36   yeah and it's funny too because the one thing with the nato strap is the real [TS]

01:16:42   nato straps go underneath the watch [TS]

01:16:44   it's like one continuous be a nylon that goes through the lug under the back so [TS]

01:16:49   that the actual back of the watch doesn't touch your wrist that's it sits [TS]

01:16:53   on top of the strap-on and ivory listen to the ATP x episode and Syracuse it was [TS]

01:16:59   confused as to why that is there actually is like a tactical reason for [TS]

01:17:04   the design of the strap the idea is that if one of the bars of your watch that [TS]

01:17:09   holds a strap if one of them breaks it while you're like in combat because it's [TS]

01:17:14   just one strap that goes through if one of the bars breaks the watch won't come [TS]

01:17:18   off your wrist [TS]

01:17:19   it'll still be flopping around because there's one bar broken but that the you [TS]

01:17:24   know the rest of the strap will be going through the other bar right because [TS]

01:17:28   you've essentially tried to strapped to your wrist right there superstar super [TS]

01:17:33   super valuable i mean i think that they regularly sell for like six fifty [TS]

01:17:39   thousand dollars or more but there's some vintage Rolexes that they made for [TS]

01:17:44   the British military in the late sixties [TS]

01:17:46   an early seventies and that they only could use a nato strap because the Vice [TS]

01:17:54   the specs of the British military that the crossbars in the watch the thing [TS]

01:17:58   that you need like you know and more than a normal watching need like a [TS]

01:18:01   special tool to like you know it's called a spring bar see it compresses a [TS]

01:18:05   little bit so it pops out so you can change the strap those bars were like [TS]

01:18:11   welded or whatever you would call it you know they David they weren't springy [TS]

01:18:14   they were like part of the actual watch so that they would be leaving less [TS]

01:18:18   likely to break so there is a tactical reason for that but that design wouldn't [TS]

01:18:22   work at all with the Apple watch because the strap would actually cover the [TS]

01:18:25   sensors exactly so they had to do their own thing they're little apple ii spin [TS]

01:18:29   on it right i find it to be a very comfortable material though I have a [TS]

01:18:32   strap like that i'm an old regular watch that i have a similar it's not really an [TS]

01:18:37   80 style i actually because i don't like that I don't like the way that it sits [TS]

01:18:41   on your wrist when it goes through like that but its NATO style and has it just [TS]

01:18:46   attaches to spring bars like a regular watch but I find that nylon is actually [TS]

01:18:49   super comfortable material especially like in hot weather [TS]

01:18:53   yeah and they look better I have heard some people say that they thought they [TS]

01:18:56   looked kind of ugly on the on the apple website they look way better in person [TS]

01:19:01   yeah they're actually very hard to photograph I think that yeah well it's [TS]

01:19:04   almost like you get a little more a pattern on them but yeah they are they [TS]

01:19:06   are they super pattern woven in a multiple color of woven fabric so that [TS]

01:19:12   they're hard to their hard to picture [TS]

01:19:13   yeah I'm looking at it right now on apple's website in by putting any kind [TS]

01:19:18   of angle that even though on a retina my retina display here it's it there it's [TS]

01:19:23   it's not a good pattern on it yeah it looks weird looks weird but in person [TS]

01:19:27   they look nice but no major are shaking news on Apple watch which is exactly [TS]

01:19:32   what we expected right so do you think what we talked about this in person [TS]

01:19:37   after the event you think that they have to do I kind of think they do have to do [TS]

01:19:43   apple watch to point out in September i think i think they need to do a refresh [TS]

01:19:47   its September will be two years since it was announced [TS]

01:19:49   if not shipped around and so it's hard to say that the hardware is two years [TS]

01:19:53   old the hardware didn't exist when it was announced right it was they were [TS]

01:19:57   still working on it and then they got out six months later [TS]

01:20:00   but I feel like they did they do need to do a refresh at the same time I wonder [TS]

01:20:03   what is an Apple watch refresh look like and is it you know they've got so much [TS]

01:20:07   work i think to do on the software side still to that too is it isn't like i [TS]

01:20:13   would like to see it be subtle [TS]

01:20:14   I'd like it see it be like yes there's a new model but it looks like the old [TS]

01:20:18   model more or less than all the bands work with it it behaves more or less the [TS]

01:20:21   same maybe it's more energy-efficient it last longer it's it's it's more it's [TS]

01:20:26   faster whatever but it's sort of like still Apple watch almost not like a [TS]

01:20:30   stealth replacement Apple watch to is completely new but more like now you [TS]

01:20:35   know here's the new model of Apple watch it sits a little bit better and and like [TS]

01:20:40   leave it at that because I I feel like what they really don't want to do is [TS]

01:20:44   giving him the impression that every two years [TS]

01:20:49   there's going to be a completely different apple watch and all of your [TS]

01:20:51   old stuff is gonna be gone [TS]

01:20:53   I i think they all want almost want to make it feel timeless like this is our [TS]

01:20:58   design it's going to look like this for a while you know you can get used to it [TS]

01:21:02   feel to feel good about buying one but we'll see [TS]

01:21:06   I I that's my hope is that it's it's not like a like a major phone announcement [TS]

01:21:12   but it's more like yeah the apple watch is a little bit better now but it's [TS]

01:21:15   still the apple watch and in especially on the hardware side because you know i [TS]

01:21:20   think the hardware is is it can always be improved but it's not the problem [TS]

01:21:24   with the Apple watch if I got problems with the Apple watch and we talked about [TS]

01:21:27   this too when we were in cupertino you know I think it's more on the software [TS]

01:21:30   like after two years of use or any year-and-a-half where the public is you [TS]

01:21:35   is is using it they should have some better ideas about like assumptions they [TS]

01:21:40   made two years ago that maybe are right that they have to fix and software I i [TS]

01:21:43   think the hardware needs improvement to i think that the thing is just too damn [TS]

01:21:47   slow [TS]

01:21:47   I yeah yeah tonight really it's hard to tell right because is that the software [TS]

01:21:51   the hardware it's gotta be the hardware that's just the fact that it takes [TS]

01:21:54   forever for apps to launch and sometimes they don't [TS]

01:21:56   well and just for example like I just went through it again because they let [TS]

01:22:00   me have a review unit of the Milanese things so I paired it with the it it is [TS]

01:22:07   the whole hassle it's such a it's the worst thing in the world to complain [TS]

01:22:10   about because we want a great job [TS]

01:22:12   I have this is great i mean i don't want to complain and then I you know Apple [TS]

01:22:17   gives me these things to review and get to play with this all this stuff without [TS]

01:22:20   having to buy it it's it's great fun but it you know but it's a pain in the ass [TS]

01:22:28   like women with the way that Apple watch is paired to a phone [TS]

01:22:30   it's a pain in the ass to test a new phone because then you can't really [TS]

01:22:34   fully test it unless you're also pairing it you know with your watch if that's [TS]

01:22:38   how you normally if you actually where Apple watch and you know it's such a [TS]

01:22:44   pain in the ass to parenteral watch but just pairing the new watch that they [TS]

01:22:48   gave me to review i paired it with the iphone SE so i'm i'm leaving my watch my [TS]

01:22:51   up the one I actually bought known paired with the iphone 6s that i bought [TS]

01:22:55   known and i'm using their review unit watch with a review unit phone what a [TS]

01:23:01   pain in the ass addition to set up a new Apple watch it is it takes forever [TS]

01:23:05   yeah it's a and that's not just a reviewer's problem [TS]

01:23:09   my wife had her she had her iphone screen break and got a replacement and [TS]

01:23:16   the replacement digitizer was bad so she took it back and they and they replace [TS]

01:23:19   the whole unit and you know what that means she had to then reap reap air her [TS]

01:23:24   Apple watch and restore from backup and it took forever and then it wasn't [TS]

01:23:28   working right and and they said but wipe wipe it and don't restore your backup [TS]

01:23:35   and see if it's something weird involving your backup so we wiped it and [TS]

01:23:40   then we had to repair they have once again it's another like hour to set that [TS]

01:23:43   I so there are real-world scenarios where it's like anytime you change [TS]

01:23:47   anything about your phone you have to go through that Apple watch process again [TS]

01:23:51   alright and i don't mean to i think in the long run they have to be aware of [TS]

01:23:55   this because inside Apple they have to be you know they probably parent on pear [TS]

01:23:59   apple watches more than anybody you know why they're testing ideas and testing [TS]

01:24:03   you know prototype new devices and stuff like that so they have to be aware of [TS]

01:24:06   that but it's when you've gone through and it's no longer novel like when you [TS]

01:24:11   when it first came out and sure it took a long time but you could like you know [TS]

01:24:15   I was you know just studying what it does and watching the little spinner go [TS]

01:24:19   around and now that's a clever thing but now it's like oh my god this is [TS]

01:24:23   ridiculous [TS]

01:24:24   yeah i mean [TS]

01:24:26   really can take like an hour it's got you so yeah I mean the hardware i would [TS]

01:24:30   imagine that um a new Apple watch would not look at that different there's a [TS]

01:24:36   rumor about putting a camera on it i don't even know about that because it's [TS]

01:24:39   just gonna take pictures of your nose but I ridiculous but but making the [TS]

01:24:44   processor faster and more energy-efficient and so that the battery [TS]

01:24:50   last longer these are things that I could see right though that that's the [TS]

01:24:55   to me it feels like that's what the the new Apple watch should be is like the [TS]

01:24:59   old Apple watch except faster and last longer I can the only thing I could [TS]

01:25:04   think of using the camera for would not be facetime because again the angle [TS]

01:25:08   would be terrible and the your arms get tired within like 15 seconds [TS]

01:25:13   yeah I i could see it though if they can do it it would almost be to me the only [TS]

01:25:19   time i would imagine using it and i've i've been in this situation like when [TS]

01:25:22   i'm out jogging and and don't want to take my phone out of the pocket I have [TS]

01:25:27   and whatever if it's alright if I see something interesting [TS]

01:25:30   it would be interesting to just . my wrist at it and take a picture but [TS]

01:25:34   there'd be no there's problems with that too [TS]

01:25:37   I because you don't you wouldn't be able to look at the screen to ya to do it if [TS]

01:25:41   you're pointing just pointing your watch it something if you can launch a cock [TS]

01:25:45   camera app and it turns the like the bottom button into a shutter for a [TS]

01:25:49   picture you can get a picture but you you know you're almost like shooting it [TS]

01:25:54   blind [TS]

01:25:55   yeah I i took some pictures of the apple of them without looking through the [TS]

01:25:58   viewfinder of like low low angles of apple products and the hands-on here [TS]

01:26:02   afterward and they were all terrible because i couldn't frame them right [TS]

01:26:06   it's not gonna be yeah I I get the appeal of the Dick Tracy video watch [TS]

01:26:11   kind of thing but boy that would not be where I would put my that's nothing [TS]

01:26:14   that's crying out on the exactly right [TS]

01:26:16   this boy only had a camera in there man then we would really have something that [TS]

01:26:21   is not what I i think it's going on with the Apple watch [TS]

01:26:24   exactly so yeah I do think though that the big news for the watch and hardware [TS]

01:26:30   and software will all be in September I think it'd be a huge part of the [TS]

01:26:34   September event yeah I'd love to see if there was a if they talk about watching [TS]

01:26:38   us [TS]

01:26:39   3a lot at WWDC if we get if we get maybe get a sense of that they're right I I'm [TS]

01:26:46   and I'm hoping I'm really hoping that they rethink the whole thing because [TS]

01:26:50   yeah it feels like and developers feel this way to I think which is you know [TS]

01:26:55   the app model doesn't really work right and it's completely using and people [TS]

01:27:00   aren't using apps in large part on the on the watch when i talk to developers [TS]

01:27:04   who have watch apps their apps don't get used very much and that would be a good [TS]

01:27:08   time for them to communicate with developers like all right we're going to [TS]

01:27:12   make some changes to watch OS we're going to make it simpler [TS]

01:27:15   you know this is how you're gonna your software is going to interact with it's [TS]

01:27:17   gonna be a little bit different i would love to hear that at WWDC we'll see if [TS]

01:27:23   they because i feel like the after two years they gotta look at and go oh yeah [TS]

01:27:27   we we probably this hole complications and glances and apps from the app [TS]

01:27:33   launcher screen and what we use the buttons for it's like we kind of got it [TS]

01:27:36   wrong [TS]

01:27:37   let's let's clean this up and and into it take to on it um and I hope they do i [TS]

01:27:42   hope they don't I hope they I think it'll be hard for them not to notice [TS]

01:27:45   that I hope they're like pride doesn't get in the way like no no it's gonna be [TS]

01:27:49   fine it's gonna be fine because I think this product could be way better even if [TS]

01:27:54   all they did was change some of the things about the software [TS]

01:27:57   yeah I very much agree with that I we ever took my bottom line is that i think [TS]

01:28:02   they made a big mistake by offering apps in the first place that maybe eventually [TS]

01:28:06   they should have done it but i think they should have bit the bullet and done [TS]

01:28:09   what they did with the iphone and wait at least a year before they open it up [TS]

01:28:14   to apps just because the app experience is so poor [TS]

01:28:18   it's it really would have been better to ship without it even though it would [TS]

01:28:22   have inevitably led to people screaming that they want apps only in theory but i [TS]

01:28:28   still think it just the actual experience of it and the way it's played [TS]

01:28:31   out [TS]

01:28:32   I think bears that out like you said like developers even say you know we [TS]

01:28:35   made the appt nobody uses it [TS]

01:28:38   yeah and and having you know your apps on your phone is phone accessory having [TS]

01:28:42   your apps on your phone do things on the watch that are interesting i like that [TS]

01:28:46   idea i think the complications thing is actually way more interesting i think [TS]

01:28:50   glances are actually a little bit more interesting I don't [TS]

01:28:53   was rather glances be more powerful and not have apps [TS]

01:28:56   yep yeah I I never want to go i can't remember the last time that I'd wanted [TS]

01:29:01   to and needed to go to the app screen so the pressing one of the primary buttons [TS]

01:29:06   on the thing one press on the crown takes me to a place where I never want [TS]

01:29:10   to go [TS]

01:29:11   yep so anyway I'm with you I new hardware and I I hope like a interesting [TS]

01:29:17   conceptual rethink of the software would I didn't really think about the fact [TS]

01:29:21   that they might do that it's at WWDC I kind of bet that they don't because i [TS]

01:29:26   think that if they're going to do that it at now that you mention it I kind of [TS]

01:29:31   think it could be a big towel as to whether they're going to rethink it or [TS]

01:29:34   not and I feel like if they talk about it at WWDC it probably won't involve a [TS]

01:29:39   major conceptual rethink of how the watch us works and if there are going to [TS]

01:29:44   do it i think they're going to save it for September so that they can add to [TS]

01:29:48   the surprise of the event will be one of those half-measures things where you [TS]

01:29:52   know here are some new things you can do with wha chaps and leaving aside that [TS]

01:29:55   well we're actually going to change how you get to them and how it works but you [TS]

01:30:00   know only tell the developers what they need to know to to get their apps [TS]

01:30:04   I don't know I feel like they need to evangelize with developers about watch [TS]

01:30:07   apps because i feel like there with that was not only did the customers sort of [TS]

01:30:12   get let down by the apps but the developers got let down by the apps it [TS]

01:30:16   was right there there if they had to change you know midstream and the watch [TS]

01:30:21   is two apps were different rules than the original watch apps and and so I [TS]

01:30:24   feel like yeah they want if they want active app developers on the watch [TS]

01:30:29   they're gonna have to tell them a story of some kind of WWDC yeah and i think [TS]

01:30:34   that you know the truth is that they burned a little bit of trust right yeah [TS]

01:30:39   oh yeah you know the message from Apple both publicly and privately by talking [TS]

01:30:44   to like developer relations people was seriously you you know you should do [TS]

01:30:48   this you should you know you should you need a story to get on the watch get on [TS]

01:30:52   the watch and a lot of you know a lot of people listen to a lot of people did it [TS]

01:30:56   and I think a lot of people see it as effectively wasted effort or at least [TS]

01:30:59   effort that could might have been better allocated something else not that it was [TS]

01:31:02   completely wasted but that maybe the time would be better [TS]

01:31:05   spent you know making your ipad version of your app better position and not just [TS]

01:31:10   because of like how many people it's not how many people have apple launches [TS]

01:31:14   that's not the issue the issue is people who have the Apple watches aren't using [TS]

01:31:17   their watch apps because the app experience on the watch is bad right [TS]

01:31:21   right [TS]

01:31:23   that brings us to the iphone SE and jaws did it on stage I guess we can just [TS]

01:31:30   makes talking about the actual device with with with the event I thought he [TS]

01:31:36   did a good job i thought you know we haven't seen jaws on stage in awhile and [TS]

01:31:39   the idea is really he's a great presenter I think so too i ran into him [TS]

01:31:43   before the event I i I'm and I walked over from from building one where we all [TS]

01:31:49   came in over the building for with him and we were chatting because he he saw [TS]

01:31:54   the town hall story that we did and that was that was great and it turns out they [TS]

01:31:57   had a slide about the presentation so we have people like I see it's not just us [TS]

01:32:02   um which was cool and I live no neck I for a long time because he used to be [TS]

01:32:08   like the powerbook product manager [TS]

01:32:09   I mean he goes back a long way at apple and I he he is very good onstage and one [TS]

01:32:17   of those town hall event that we found he liked was the person who intro the [TS]

01:32:22   event he like got up on stage and said good morning everybody welcome to this [TS]

01:32:26   applicant wow if you had first I i remember that when it i think it was [TS]

01:32:30   like the iOS to or iOS three [TS]

01:32:33   yeah I'm it was like a march event where they were like I announced I think maybe [TS]

01:32:37   like iOS three and i think it was the iphone software 3.0 I think that's what [TS]

01:32:42   they call it right and it was at a time one of the times when Steve Jobs was on [TS]

01:32:47   a medical leave right and it was a year after they had they launch the app store [TS]

01:32:51   I'm yeah yeah so he's good and it was great to see him on stage because I I I [TS]

01:32:56   like him I think he's a I think he's a good guy and and I think he does a good [TS]

01:33:00   job on stage he's always been sort of you know he works for phil schiller so [TS]

01:33:06   he doesn't get necessarily as many opportunities to shine because Phil [TS]

01:33:10   could have done that demo right but but instead just did it and I thought that [TS]

01:33:14   did a good job [TS]

01:33:15   yeah and it's a tough it [TS]

01:33:17   of pitch like I said at the beginning of the show it's you know here's a phone [TS]

01:33:20   that everything about it is familiar in some way it's just a new combination and [TS]

01:33:25   you know I thought he did a good job and somebody who's been looking forward to [TS]

01:33:28   the idea of a 4-inch phone that plz plz plz still has top-of-the-line specs i [TS]

01:33:33   was really happy with the announcement tons of speculation before the event [TS]

01:33:38   that that it was gonna have like a underclocked a nine if it does seven [TS]

01:33:43   eight nine that the camera would be some sort of lesser image quality compared to [TS]

01:33:48   the success and both of those things turned out not to be true [TS]

01:33:52   yeah it's um it's funny the the it makes sense to me write the rumors that like [TS]

01:34:01   oh it's going to be a redesigned thing and and you know it's it's a that end [TS]

01:34:08   well I mean what you said about the the idea of it being underclocked [TS]

01:34:11   underclocked I was pondering that because that on one level it just makes [TS]

01:34:15   sense it's like well it's gonna be the cheapest phone it should be kind of [TS]

01:34:18   lesser right and then as I was listening i thought okay i see what they're doing [TS]

01:34:21   here they're doing a lot of what they did when they did the ipad air 2 which [TS]

01:34:25   is let's max it out now and we're going to just leave it there for a while [TS]

01:34:29   because are they really going to do a new iphone SE every year [TS]

01:34:32   no they're not so pack it with the the 6s stuff for the most part right now [TS]

01:34:38   pack that in and I would call that this year's technology but it's not this [TS]

01:34:42   year's technology right it's it's last year's technology in the current current [TS]

01:34:46   models but there will be new models in a few months so packed with last year's [TS]

01:34:51   technology but that will give you a couple you know 23 years where you don't [TS]

01:34:55   have to update it and then in two or three years you turn it around again [TS]

01:34:59   maybe and have it look perhaps even exactly the same as it does now again [TS]

01:35:03   but you you know at that point you put in the specs from the iphone 7s or [TS]

01:35:07   whatever [TS]

01:35:08   yeah that's the the it's like I've been hoping for an iphone 4 with with these [TS]

01:35:14   specs for so long and now that I've got it i'm instantly worried about the [TS]

01:35:17   future [TS]

01:35:18   sure right because you may not be able to whatever amazing thing they announce [TS]

01:35:22   this fall or even next fall [TS]

01:35:24   you know mean it may not come to that phone for two years or three years [TS]

01:35:30   that's very true now so by thinking strategically is that they're definitely [TS]

01:35:35   not going to do a 4-inch phone in September another one now dad certainly [TS]

01:35:40   not right now I don't even think it will be once a year I don't think so either [TS]

01:35:45   like and I know and that's a couple of people I've spoken to privately have [TS]

01:35:50   been like who were four inch fans were you know like I think it's too much to [TS]

01:35:55   ask that they were going to do an iphone 7 that comes in three sizes for 4.75 [TS]

01:36:00   qualified because this it's only six months after this event right like build [TS]

01:36:04   so they'll go off cycle with events but they almost never the only one I can [TS]

01:36:08   only example I can think of is when they they they replace the ipad 36 months [TS]

01:36:13   after it came out right [TS]

01:36:16   yeah that was like the first retina iPad is soo underpowered under don't forget [TS]

01:36:22   it it was it was like them [TS]

01:36:25   it's like the 1i OS clunker device that they've shipped and it was nice in some [TS]

01:36:29   ways because it was retina and retina in and of itself is I think that's why they [TS]

01:36:33   did it is now threatening in and of itself is so compelling and i won my [TS]

01:36:38   wife used that for several years yeah yeah but it you know was replaced just [TS]

01:36:43   six months after it came out which is unusual but that was because it was you [TS]

01:36:47   know there were problems with the with the ipad 3 was too heavy it was [TS]

01:36:50   underpowered and there's no problems with the iphone SE like that know and [TS]

01:36:56   and you know Apple has shown in the last few years that they're willing to take [TS]

01:36:59   these products and put them on other something other than a one year cycle [TS]

01:37:02   it's like how do we do more products one way we do more products as Apple is not [TS]

01:37:08   not update all our products every year right so so they the ipad air is a great [TS]

01:37:13   example ipad air 2 the ipad mini how do you had a year where they didn't do a [TS]

01:37:18   new version of it right and then you come out with one and it's [TS]

01:37:21   top-of-the-line like ipad air 2 blew us away with how much stuff was in it and [TS]

01:37:26   that's good because it was so far ahead that it had a lot of like room to fall [TS]

01:37:31   lot of time where it kind of decay as other products advanced and it would [TS]

01:37:35   still be pretty good and and that's still I mean cutting the price on it [TS]

01:37:39   that's still a pretty great product with a pretty good great price even now [TS]

01:37:43   but that's that I feel is what the SEC stories it's the same thing it's like [TS]

01:37:47   let's max it out now because then it's just gonna sit there for a couple years [TS]

01:37:51   yeah I kind of feel like it's it's the iphone 5c done right it yeah yeah i mean [TS]

01:37:58   the 5c label it was literally the old phone and with color in it and I think [TS]

01:38:05   people felt like they were getting i think one of the reasons that didn't [TS]

01:38:09   sell so well is that they felt like they were getting kind of last year's tak [TS]

01:38:12   yeah and and it was not really a new phone it was just a new rapper and the [TS]

01:38:17   iphone SE is a new phone in an old rapper well and I know that there are [TS]

01:38:21   definitely know anything we say no you know we always speak in the Iowa [TS]

01:38:24   speaking extremes because it is you say nobody wanted to buy last year's phone [TS]

01:38:28   or nobody wanted to buy a phone that didn't look like a premium iphone and of [TS]

01:38:32   course that's not true [TS]

01:38:33   plenty of people bought the iphone 5c sure there's lots and we're still using [TS]

01:38:37   I even I've been on Apple's campus and a not recently but I you know when it was [TS]

01:38:42   fresher I saw people you know Apple employees who obviously are well [TS]

01:38:45   informed about the specs i could have any phone and iphone that they want who [TS]

01:38:51   chose the 5c because they wanted the color you know it definitely appeal to [TS]

01:38:55   some people [TS]

01:38:55   Tom but in Bernardino County loved it too i think is as friend of the show Ben [TS]

01:39:01   Thompson nose at as pointed out i think in the aggregate though it proved to be [TS]

01:39:06   a mistake to make a phone that didn't look like a premium iphone that in the [TS]

01:39:09   iphone brand is to continue it hinges upon looking like a premium device and [TS]

01:39:13   therefore it needs to be made out of apples premium materials which at the [TS]

01:39:17   moment are you know anodized aluminum yeah it's almost like it's a psychology [TS]

01:39:23   that it can be cheaper [TS]

01:39:25   that's fine but it still needs to look like its premium like it's expensive and [TS]

01:39:29   that's that's an important part of the brand identity i guess so I my guess is [TS]

01:39:34   strategically they're not going to do a new one next year maybe I i wouldn't be [TS]

01:39:40   surprised if they never make a 4-inch iphone again and I know that that kind [TS]

01:39:43   of is a little contrary to Jazz's pitch on stage that we've you know realize [TS]

01:39:48   that some people prefer 4-inch fun i wouldn't be surprised if they never do [TS]

01:39:53   again but it might be completely based on how well the [TS]

01:39:57   iphone SE cells if it does sell well enough that they're like yeah we should [TS]

01:40:01   you know we should definitely keep this in the light you know something at this [TS]

01:40:04   size in the lineup [TS]

01:40:05   I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear you get another one for two years [TS]

01:40:09   yeah I i would be shocked if it wasn't on a two or three-year cycle and that's [TS]

01:40:13   okay that's okay not every Apple product needs to get updated every year right [TS]

01:40:17   because we just got we got trained that there would always be a new one and and [TS]

01:40:20   their bandwidth I mean like I said the idea that you've got now three different [TS]

01:40:25   current iphone models plus two of last year's that are still being made and [TS]

01:40:30   sold so there's five new iPhones right you can't m3 current models you can't [TS]

01:40:36   turn them all over every year they just they can't they [TS]

01:40:39   Apple I don't think between the designers and engineers and all that [TS]

01:40:42   even apple doesn't have the bandwidth to do that and all the ipads that they've [TS]

01:40:46   got now and all the max they've got now so you pull some things that are less [TS]

01:40:50   vital and you and you put them on a two-year cycle but nothing wrong with [TS]

01:40:54   that [TS]

01:40:54   and until monday that I've you know the 4-inch iphone that they were selling was [TS]

01:40:59   from 2013 it was two-and-a-half years old so i wouldn't be surprised at all [TS]

01:41:05   and in fact if you follow the Apple is a company of patterns i think i wouldn't [TS]

01:41:10   be surprised if maybe we get another one two and a half years from now maybe [TS]

01:41:13   they'll do a 4-inch phone that premieres at the September event could be could be [TS]

01:41:18   or it'll be another thing like this where in two years will be a will be a [TS]

01:41:22   spring event and it'll be the best tak from the iphone 7s inside the new iphone [TS]

01:41:27   SE right one thing they mentioned multiple times jobs mentioned at least [TS]

01:41:34   at least twice was that the chamfered edge is now Matt instead of polished [TS]

01:41:39   which is true it is you can if you look at it side-by-side with an iphone 5 r 5 [TS]

01:41:46   5 or 5s you will see the difference [TS]

01:41:49   I thought it was a curious thing that they mentioned multiple times though [TS]

01:41:52   well I mean it's like literally the only thing that's different about I wonder I [TS]

01:41:58   wonder whether that is a decision I would love to know if that is a decision [TS]

01:42:03   made for aesthetic reasons for financial reasons because it is it is it that Jony [TS]

01:42:08   ive seen how you know if I ever get it [TS]

01:42:10   hands i'm not going to Johnny I voice if i ever get a chance to revisit the 5s [TS]

01:42:14   the thing the thing that bothers me about it is I really regret the shiny [TS]

01:42:17   chamfered edge given that the the rest of the edges are all matt is it was a [TS]

01:42:22   mistake or whether it's more like hey Johnny it's going to save us like two [TS]

01:42:27   dollars of phone not to have the chamfered edge be shiny to you care and [TS]

01:42:31   have him saying man its fine and he cared he cared when the phone was new [TS]

01:42:35   and it was like no goddammit we're gonna you know we're paying fifty cents to do [TS]

01:42:39   it and now he does it's like sort of like he doesn't doesn't really care [TS]

01:42:42   about the that's all i'd love to know whether whether it was that like a [TS]

01:42:45   financial decision or or is it like a revisitation of you know [TS]

01:42:49   oh I changed my mind about the chamfered edges now I can see it either way I [TS]

01:42:52   could see that maybe it was actually difficult to do the matte finish and [TS]

01:42:55   they couldn't do it before and now they have figured out a way to do it and now [TS]

01:42:58   they're that's why they mentioned it twice because it's a hard thing to do [TS]

01:43:01   but rather proud of it i don't know either [TS]

01:43:03   it certainly I think it certainly makes the design of the phone more consistent [TS]

01:43:07   to have it be not shiny on the on the champers because nothing else is shiny [TS]

01:43:13   but I don't know from from a aesthetic like a as a hardware designer what what [TS]

01:43:20   somebody like Johnny I would say about that I i I'm a little baffled but like [TS]

01:43:23   literally that's it for the 5s because the 5s is that has the the double flash [TS]

01:43:27   on the back so that the camera the flash everything other than the Apple itself [TS]

01:43:32   and and the the printing on the back [TS]

01:43:35   the only other physical characteristic that is different is that champer so [TS]

01:43:40   what I guess if we talk about it because what else we're going to say alright I [TS]

01:43:44   guess I what do you what do you what are your thoughts on 4-inch funds are you a [TS]

01:43:51   4-inch you tempted [TS]

01:43:53   I'm a little bit tempted [TS]

01:43:56   it's I go back and forth i mean a big big screens are nice [TS]

01:43:59   the thing I love about the about the 4 inch size and the the iphone 5 design is [TS]

01:44:04   its it feels great in the hand it's easier to hold the the sixes do feel [TS]

01:44:10   slippery and like it like they're like a polished Rock I've never felt [TS]

01:44:14   comfortable the first I always wore my or my iphone naked and I put a case on [TS]

01:44:20   the on the six and move that case to the success the Apple other case because [TS]

01:44:23   it's just I need [TS]

01:44:24   it to be creepier i felt like i was going to slip out of my hands I never [TS]

01:44:27   feel that way with that with a five [TS]

01:44:29   I've always I've always felt that they were they were super solid but you know [TS]

01:44:34   the trade-off there is that yeah the screen is a lot smaller and as somebody [TS]

01:44:38   who is not a computer anymore [TS]

01:44:41   I you know I don't rely on my iphone as much as i used to i use it when i'm out [TS]

01:44:48   and i use it like I'm walking the dog or taking a run or something like that [TS]

01:44:51   unless the podcast on it or something like that but I i used to use it all the [TS]

01:44:55   time when I was riding the bus and things like that and I don't I don't do [TS]

01:44:58   that anymore so so for me it's less of a Productivity device than it used to be [TS]

01:45:03   and so the smaller screen probably wouldn't make much of a difference to me [TS]

01:45:07   and it's and it's easier to hold so I'm kind of on the fence about it I i'm [TS]

01:45:11   tempted I i totally am tempted [TS]

01:45:14   I'm also a little reluctant to embrace it because of what we said before which [TS]

01:45:19   is right [TS]

01:45:20   its state-of-the-art for six months and then it probably will be not [TS]

01:45:24   state-of-the-art for the next 18 exactly and I'm and I'm it's like however much I [TS]

01:45:29   prefer the size and I definitely prefer the size i'm not going to not have the [TS]

01:45:34   top-of-the-line phone so come September when the iphone 7 comes out I'm going to [TS]

01:45:39   switch to that anyway so which is why this is a phone for people who aren't I [TS]

01:45:44   desperate to always be on the cutting edge like some of us right or for [TS]

01:45:49   somebody for whom the the larger size is just a deal breaker and I've heard from [TS]

01:45:53   I know a bunch of people who have held onto those 5s is because they're like I [TS]

01:45:57   don't want a bigger phone it's too big for me and and some of them i mean there [TS]

01:46:01   was a conversation on Twitter that I thought was pretty good about like you [TS]

01:46:04   can't you can overstate saying well women helps with small hands [TS]

01:46:08   I prefer a small phone because I know a lot of women who love huge phones [TS]

01:46:11   because they just put your phone in a purse and it doesn't it doesn't matter [TS]

01:46:15   but I i dunno people men and women who find holding that big phone [TS]

01:46:19   uncomfortable and the little phone a lot more comfortable and so for those people [TS]

01:46:23   that you know I think or uncomfortable in their pocket or they have small [TS]

01:46:27   pockets and they can't fit a phone in their pocket [TS]

01:46:30   those are the people who are gonna we're gonna love it as well as all the people [TS]

01:46:32   who want the to buy an iphone and this is going to be by far the cheapest [TS]

01:46:36   iphone they can buy yeah [TS]

01:46:37   I do miss I just so much of this design that i miss i love that it stands up on [TS]

01:46:42   any side you can put it sideways to watch video you can stand it up to take [TS]

01:46:46   pictures a no camera bump no camera bump oh and I'll say this to it's got a [TS]

01:46:52   headphone jack on it so if the future of the iphone and on it being on the [TS]

01:46:56   cutting edge is losing the headphone jack maybe I'm okay with having the the [TS]

01:46:59   retro phone thats that's not on the cutting edge [TS]

01:47:03   I don't know it does feel a little retro it does if I need to talk about [TS]

01:47:07   something that what the design premiered in $MONTH 2012 [TS]

01:47:11   yeah talk about it being retro but it's it doesn't from earlier in the decade [TS]

01:47:16   well anyway I like it and yeah my only the only reason I wouldn't switch from [TS]

01:47:23   my 4s are at 4s Jesus the success packed and then switch to the size is only [TS]

01:47:29   because I i think it's I you know 6y get used to it for six months only to go [TS]

01:47:35   back [TS]

01:47:36   yeah temper because you're gonna want that iphone 7 whatever it is right [TS]

01:47:39   you're gonna want it [TS]

01:47:40   yeah well I honestly it's the camera quality and I say that knowing that I [TS]

01:47:45   could i get slightly better optical it you know I get the optical image [TS]

01:47:48   stabilization in the six in the plus but I'm not switching to a plus-size phone [TS]

01:47:54   but what ok so what happens if there's that rumor that there's going to be a [TS]

01:47:58   super fancy camera that's only going to be on a plus model would that be enough [TS]

01:48:03   like a really good maybe almost like SLR quality camera on an iphone but you have [TS]

01:48:09   to get the big iphone would you get the big iphone fact remember that is and [TS]

01:48:13   maybe I've been thinking about ever since the rumor I'm and I i don't know [TS]

01:48:17   what i do i I don't know it would be that would be a very hard question [TS]

01:48:20   because the camera is seriously so important to me I mean I know I've said [TS]

01:48:24   this before but I know it's called the iphone but if I had to pick one [TS]

01:48:28   component to break and have the option was you can have it you know for the [TS]

01:48:32   rest of the week you can use this phone that doesn't make phone calls or you can [TS]

01:48:35   use this one that doesn't take pictures [TS]

01:48:37   almost all the time I want the one that that has the broken phone but takes [TS]

01:48:41   pictures and it's more of an eye camera to me than an iphone just I really i'd [TS]

01:48:46   agree i mean for me if it if it all i did was take pictures and play podcast [TS]

01:48:50   side [TS]

01:48:51   probably be okay with not having it make phone calls right so I I don't know if I [TS]

01:48:57   i really hope that that the idea that the dual cameras only in a plus i hope [TS]

01:49:01   that's not true [TS]

01:49:03   yeah me too but I i could see i could see them doing that right i mean and i [TS]

01:49:06   do think that cameras is one of these like we've come so far with the [TS]

01:49:12   smartphones like we're talking about earlier but camera technology is like [TS]

01:49:15   that's one of the frontiers smart phones cameras and then impervious to damage [TS]

01:49:19   damage seems to me like the big areas here and I could maybe throwing glare [TS]

01:49:23   like I'm glad that they talked about Claire and the new ipad which will get [TS]

01:49:26   to because that's that's also an issue but it's not like to be faster all that [TS]

01:49:31   is sure yeah it's gonna have more battery life but great cameras in a in a [TS]

01:49:37   smartphone is a you know that's a huge area of interest for anybody who's got [TS]

01:49:42   it because those are our cameras now I have all I keep making better it i wiii [TS]

01:49:46   you talked about your love of the original iphone feel and I'd feel the [TS]

01:49:50   same way about i love the outside design but it's it's always mind-blowing to me [TS]

01:49:55   I mean we're nine years into it but I still feel like it's the new thing the [TS]

01:49:58   iphone but the original iphone camera was a total piece of craft terrible it [TS]

01:50:02   was just like a stock like phone camera apart from Japan they don't know i mean [TS]

01:50:08   i'm glad they put it in but it it was you know almost useless for it was it [TS]

01:50:14   was no better than the type of kid pictures you took with your dumb phone [TS]

01:50:17   really it didn't even and it didn't even take video you can even shoot bad video [TS]

01:50:21   a genuine didn't do video it reminded me of like the bad camcorder early not I [TS]

01:50:25   wasn't a bad camcorders in the early days of VHS but no reminded me of like [TS]

01:50:28   the really bad early digital cameras where it's just you know it's tricky [TS]

01:50:32   can't do low light at all it's a miracle that it's there at all but it's really [TS]

01:50:36   like why not put you sure we should put a camera on it it's not any good and you [TS]

01:50:41   would never want to use it unless you were desperate but at least we have it [TS]

01:50:44   and it's a mile away and now we've got people you know we've got kids you know [TS]

01:50:47   in in the intervening nine years we've got kids who their entire uh all of the [TS]

01:50:53   video that's been taken of them as little babies and growing up has all [TS]

01:50:57   been shot on iphones and it's great quality [TS]

01:51:01   yeah just fork at 4k video it's just like mind-blowing for my TV my TV I [TS]

01:51:06   actually do have a 4k TV I could figure out a way to put it on there i could buy [TS]

01:51:10   can watch that 4k video on there but it's just yeah it's come a long way and [TS]

01:51:15   yet I take pictures with my SLR my five-year-old SLR and oh they're they're [TS]

01:51:22   way better [TS]

01:51:22   yeah right so there's there's plenty more work to be done Oh tons of room [TS]

01:51:26   especially in in lower light [TS]

01:51:29   yeah and and in the beauty of having these the the smartphone's having the [TS]

01:51:35   processors they do right is that the image processing is part of the equation [TS]

01:51:38   to software and and and chip design can help too so I yeah I mean I don't know [TS]

01:51:44   you did you see that there's like a I think that looks like a smartphone but [TS]

01:51:47   it's not a smartphone it's a camera and it's got like nine lenses yeah I know [TS]

01:51:51   exactly what you're talking about and you name it and I know it's really weird [TS]

01:51:54   but you do I think we're entering that era now where people are rethinking how [TS]

01:52:00   you do photography in a given that you have to have a flat device and the [TS]

01:52:05   answer is well I can't have a long lens but I could have a lot of lens is and [TS]

01:52:08   use software because I've got this super powerful processor here and so I think [TS]

01:52:12   things are gonna get really interesting for phone photography in the next few [TS]

01:52:15   years [TS]

01:52:15   yeah totally i don't think we're anywhere close to and I think that the [TS]

01:52:18   fact that the ad campaign that they've really really been pounding for close to [TS]

01:52:24   two years i think now is shot with iphone 6 you know [TS]

01:52:28   no yeah i just realized if it if the ad campaign is shot shot with iphone [TS]

01:52:32   success or whatever that I think that's what it is now a shot with iphone [TS]

01:52:36   success will they will they allow pictures shot with the iphone SE like is [TS]

01:52:44   that like it is there's like a certain truth in advertising that it's phone you [TS]

01:52:47   know you can't use of a picture shot with iphone SE if the campaign is shot [TS]

01:52:52   with iphone 6s it'll just be shot with iphone yeah that's what I think the [TS]

01:52:57   campaign should be shot with iphone i don't think they should I don't think [TS]

01:53:00   they should say success although maybe there's you know some sort of trying to [TS]

01:53:04   tempt people to upgrade aspect to it [TS]

01:53:08   I guess the last thing here's another thing that I did not write about on [TS]

01:53:12   monday and i think i should have and I feel like it reading other people's [TS]

01:53:16   coverage it's so many excellent pieces that were reviewing a good pit you you [TS]

01:53:20   had a good take Ben Thompson had a great take [TS]

01:53:24   but the one thing I missed was the price I and I feel like goin in large part in [TS]

01:53:29   recent years I've really gotten away from talking about prices i just accept [TS]

01:53:33   them for what they are and I think that it's time i'm doing a disservice to my [TS]

01:53:38   analysis by not taking it into an equation i think somebody called out [TS]

01:53:43   like in one of my reviews recent big reviews like maybe for the iphone [TS]

01:53:46   success i didn't even talk about like what the prices were whether people [TS]

01:53:50   should buy it or not i just talked about what it does [TS]

01:53:52   I 399 starting point for a top-of-the-line iphone is a huge [TS]

01:53:59   difference i think that the starting price for an iphone 6s or our new i [TS]

01:54:04   think it was like six 649 to buy one without you no contract or anything so [TS]

01:54:09   it's it it's groundbreaking territory 399 4 / 4 99 for this 16 and 64 kid [TS]

01:54:17   configurations [TS]

01:54:19   yeah i-i've been i was talking to people about it in terms of the you know with [TS]

01:54:23   two-year contract price which is not a thing anymore [TS]

01:54:26   in most cases and and it totally totally isn't but we all understand the context [TS]

01:54:32   of that and in that context the iphone SE is free [TS]

01:54:35   yeah right that that's where it's fitting in the line is it's a hundred [TS]

01:54:39   below the what is it the success [TS]

01:54:43   nice yeah that's where it fits it fits in the exactly in the same slot as the [TS]

01:54:49   5s and that's just remarkable for something that's not two and a half year [TS]

01:54:54   old technology that Club no trick month old technology and then Thompson's it it [TS]

01:54:59   really is and and Ben Thompson's piece that you're talking about was really [TS]

01:55:02   great because a lot of criticism was people were looking at what its price [TS]

01:55:07   was going to be in India it's like retail price and he's he's so so good [TS]

01:55:11   with some of this international stuff especially east he pointed out that the [TS]

01:55:16   stores in India don't sell at the retail price and he's did a calculation of like [TS]

01:55:21   what you considering the street prices of existing phones in india what the [TS]

01:55:26   street price of this would be and it basically goes back to they priced at [TS]

01:55:30   the way they did to get it to be the price they wanted to be which is [TS]

01:55:33   essentially the same price as it is in the US for india so he deflated some of [TS]

01:55:38   the criticism of like the exchange rate ruining the idea that it might be on a [TS]

01:55:44   lower-cost iPhone mmm yeah I I don't and I don't have much to say about the price [TS]

01:55:50   but i do think that it's it noteworthy and it signals a strategic change the [TS]

01:55:55   lowest the lowest cost iPhone right now for the first time in awhile has almost [TS]

01:56:01   all the features of the expensive iphones right it's not a it's not a [TS]

01:56:07   low-cost because its two-year old tech right at the moment and that's good [TS]

01:56:11   that's a good deal right now it's a great deal right and and i think that [TS]

01:56:15   the way that will see this is or in you know it alleviated they don't break out [TS]

01:56:21   the models that much they did say on state jobs said that they sold 30 [TS]

01:56:25   million 4-inch phones in 2015 [TS]

01:56:28   it was actually your piece that they're open my eyes to it because you mentioned [TS]

01:56:32   that they sell and you're right up that they sell 230 million total so it's [TS]

01:56:36   still only like eleven percent because I wrote down in my notes 30 million 4-inch [TS]

01:56:40   phones and I circled it like hey there's still popular size like i'm not i'm not [TS]

01:56:43   a weirdo for wanting a 4-inch phone but then I realize it's only only like ten [TS]

01:56:48   percent you also like 13 i did i mean the the years are probably wrong but I [TS]

01:56:53   look at what they sold last year and and it's thirteen percent or something like [TS]

01:56:58   that but keep in mind that thirteen percent of a $YEAR 12 21 have to do and [TS]

01:57:02   have your old phone right so they're going to sell more than that so I think [TS]

01:57:06   it's totally reasonable that the iphone SE could be fifteen to twenty percent of [TS]

01:57:11   total iphone sales which is you know if you're asking the question is it worth [TS]

01:57:16   updating the 4-inch phone is it worth having this as part of your product [TS]

01:57:20   lineup which is actually five phones wide yeah i mean if if you're going to [TS]

01:57:25   sell twenty percent of your line is going to be this phone [TS]

01:57:28   it's totally worth it but I think if it proves popular as i suspect it will be [TS]

01:57:32   which is a little bit more you know [TS]

01:57:35   maybe maybe it will creep up to like fifteen percent to twenty percent of [TS]

01:57:38   iphone sold now that it has as good a camera and it's just as fast as I feel [TS]

01:57:43   like that's the two things that even casual people if you tell them this [TS]

01:57:47   phone is just as fast and it takes just go to pictures and video as the success [TS]

01:57:50   than anybody is tempted by the size will say well I don't you know i'm fine with [TS]

01:57:54   the first generation touch ID sensor and I'm fine without having 3d touch and the [TS]

01:57:58   other little things that are missing [TS]

01:58:01   it's going to affect average selling price of iphone right it's this is a [TS]

01:58:04   move where I think strategically apple is now willing to have the average [TS]

01:58:09   selling price of iphone drop in order to sell more phones throughout the world [TS]

01:58:15   yeah I i agree although i think it will be less dramatic then we might think [TS]

01:58:20   because of the fact that they already were selling a phone at this price it's [TS]

01:58:23   just going to be a more for and again it's going to be at that curve where [TS]

01:58:27   it's going to be the current phone for six months right and then it's going to [TS]

01:58:29   be a step behind the the high-end phones for a year after that and then for [TS]

01:58:34   another unknown . after that it will presumably be two years behind so it'll [TS]

01:58:39   have a you know it'll have a sales curve will go back down but for the first six [TS]

01:58:42   months or a year it'll it'll eat into the ESPYs a little bit right because it [TS]

01:58:46   just because it's a better phone at that at that price point but it's not like [TS]

01:58:50   they didn't have one there before that wasn't even they sold whatever was 20 [TS]

01:58:54   million of them at that price in the last year so you know if the the asp [TS]

01:58:59   change is only going to be in sort of the difference between that the boost [TS]

01:59:03   that they get because it's a much better phone but they are willing to do that [TS]

01:59:05   there's no doubt about it [TS]

01:59:07   yeah anything else on iphone before we move on I don't know i mean i think i [TS]

01:59:15   think we got on the phone that has it all entirely things that have already [TS]

01:59:18   existed when I meet up before we move onto the ipad pro the new iPad pro i [TS]

01:59:24   will take a moment here to thank our our last sponsor and it's a new sponsor i [TS]

01:59:32   love these all of these people I've tried this and it is terrific [TS]

01:59:36   it's hellofresh h-e-l-l-o fres h they are a meal kit delivery service and they [TS]

01:59:43   make cooking fun easy and convenient to sign up [TS]

01:59:46   and you can you can get like a three meals a week or for meals a week you get [TS]

01:59:51   five meals a week and and they're designed for either two or four people [TS]

01:59:54   so you say we're family for we want three meals a week they have new [TS]

01:59:54   so you say we're family for we want three meals a week they have new [TS]

02:00:00   recipes and meals every week you pick the ones that appeal to you that you [TS]

02:00:04   want and then the food just shows up at your door in a box and it's days like [TS]

02:00:10   dry ice to keep the stuff cold and stuff like that [TS]

02:00:14   everything shows up and it's all the exact right amount of quantities so [TS]

02:00:19   there's no nothing to waste so it and it really does work out well we've done [TS]

02:00:23   this and it the food is great it comes it's super super attractive i was always [TS]

02:00:27   word with the middle everything it's like i'm kinda picky when i'm in a [TS]

02:00:30   supermarket like when i pick the produce like I want you know I don't like a [TS]

02:00:34   green pepper that's squishy I want a good one [TS]

02:00:36   everything that they sent us was absolutely perfect [TS]

02:00:39   I mean just super super great stuff really fresh ingredients and the recipes [TS]

02:00:45   are all designed to to be done in 30 minutes or less and the recipes are [TS]

02:00:49   terrifically well explained I mean it even an idiot like me who can't cook [TS]

02:00:54   could do it it is that can't say enough good some good food good recipes great [TS]

02:01:02   instructions incredibly convenient i had it's amazing to me that this works it [TS]

02:01:10   feels like I'm living in the future and it saves you from going to the grocery [TS]

02:01:13   store can't say enough good things about it give it a try you get 35 bucks off [TS]

02:01:20   your first week of deliveries by using this code you just use the code talk [TS]

02:01:26   show and you go to hellofresh com [TS]

02:01:29   so you go to hello fresh com take a look at it pick out the ones you want and [TS]

02:01:34   you'll save $35 just by using the code talk show tlk show1 say enough good [TS]

02:01:42   stuff about it highly recommended go give them a try hello fresh groceries [TS]

02:01:49   just delivered right to your door crazy [TS]

02:01:51   its water world we live in so then we got now we have the ipad pro which I [TS]

02:01:56   guess we could start by just talking about the name which was as rumored that [TS]

02:02:00   there is nothing you know it's not the ipad air three it is just called ipad [TS]

02:02:04   pro and [TS]

02:02:05   I guess it's not unprecedented right because the name of the 13-inch macbook [TS]

02:02:10   pros macbook pro right name of the 15-inch macbook pros macbook pro so it's [TS]

02:02:15   just you know specified by size [TS]

02:02:17   it kills me the the decimals though makes me sad i really like to refer to [TS]

02:02:21   these as the 10 and 13 inch iPads yeah they're they're a little bit they come [TS]

02:02:25   up a little short so I there is nothing but you talk about having problems as a [TS]

02:02:30   product review or boohoo [TS]

02:02:32   but i have to set up like a keyboard shortcut or something for us like a [TS]

02:02:35   mountain . 7 inch iPad pro every time I type that now [TS]

02:02:41   yeah it's like the little one or the tenant called the 10-inch but it's not [TS]

02:02:45   10 inches diagonal it's nine point seven inches so I'm already sick of I'm [TS]

02:02:50   already sick of typing that [TS]

02:02:52   yeah yeah me too i mean we can come up with a nickname for it but you know that [TS]

02:02:56   that was the advantage of saying 11-inch macbook air it's like 11 inches better [TS]

02:02:59   than 9.7 inch that's not fun to write but it does make sense i mean this is [TS]

02:03:04   this is the laptop laptop ification I don't know of the of the ipad line where [TS]

02:03:11   it's like instead of saying we're going to count by one every time we release [TS]

02:03:15   one and we're gonna keep the old ones around instead it strikes me that this [TS]

02:03:18   is a little bit more like nope [TS]

02:03:20   these are the slots got a big one and a little one and those are our iPad pros [TS]

02:03:24   and next year if we if we update them they're just gonna fit in these slots [TS]

02:03:29   the old ones go away and the new ones will be here and that's just like like [TS]

02:03:33   we do with laptops and desktops right there's no other than like the ones that [TS]

02:03:37   keep around for education like the non retina macbook pro I mean generally when [TS]

02:03:41   the retina macbook pro gets updated they don't keep the old one around to it's [TS]

02:03:46   like these are they replaced them with with no ones and these are the new ones [TS]

02:03:50   i feel like that's what they're doing with the ipads yeah I feel like it's a [TS]

02:03:53   sign of at least from Apple's perspective that they see this as it [TS]

02:04:00   once it's gotten the this year is the year that the ipad became like an [TS]

02:04:06   established product maybe that's the wrong word but that it's it's kind of [TS]

02:04:10   grown up to the point where it's and end their you know their the whole push that [TS]

02:04:14   shoulder gave onstage for is that this is a credible alternative somebody to [TS]

02:04:18   upgrading for [TS]

02:04:19   an older pc this can this can be your primary big screen computer other than [TS]

02:04:24   the phone and I feel like by calling him you know pro that's that this is finally [TS]

02:04:28   the point where they could say that that's true yeah I i was great so it's a [TS]

02:04:34   moment it's a moment in the life of the ipad right there was a controversy might [TS]

02:04:41   be the wrong word but people definitely wrote about it that the chiller when he [TS]

02:04:46   mentioned that he said that there's 600 million pcs and use that are five plus [TS]

02:04:50   years old and we think that's really sad and everybody laughed and their the [TS]

02:04:55   controversy I guess or the complaint about it is that it's a sort of tone [TS]

02:05:01   deaf to the economic the perfectly logical and sensible lot economic [TS]

02:05:06   reasons why people might be using six or seven-year-old pcs you know [TS]

02:05:11   yeah I feel like yeah I i had that thought at the time of like well this is [TS]

02:05:16   in the category of making some jokes at the expense of PCs and making some jokes [TS]

02:05:24   from the perspective of being a computer manufacturer who wants you to buy new [TS]

02:05:28   things but not like but like missing the point especially since legendarily [TS]

02:05:34   apples computers have been the ones that have lasted a long time right [TS]

02:05:39   and so to say a five-year-old pc is sad [TS]

02:05:42   does that make a five-year-old max ad does that make an eight-year-old max add [TS]

02:05:45   to make John Syracuse's mac pro sad because 20-year old Mac Pro yeah but [TS]

02:05:50   still kicking so I I don't know it i get what he get what he was trying to say i [TS]

02:05:55   get what he was trying to say it's like these old PCs are hanging on and they [TS]

02:05:59   weren't that great to begin with and and and I mean I was if I if I could channel [TS]

02:06:04   him what I'd say is the people who are using those old PCs a lot of them are [TS]

02:06:09   people who don't need a pc five years ago this was the only thing they could [TS]

02:06:13   get to get on the internet like you by a computer to get on the internet and a [TS]

02:06:19   lot of the stuff of all you're doing like my mom was like this mom had a [TS]

02:06:22   macbook pro for a long time and now she has an ipad and she was very happy with [TS]

02:06:26   her ipad air and not having a macbook pro anymore because it was the matter [TS]

02:06:31   laptops for years [TS]

02:06:33   sure Mac laptops with her gateway to the internet her gateway to do especially [TS]

02:06:36   email and you know there are other devices that do that now that are way [TS]

02:06:40   better for that purpose and and the ipad is that device for her and and so I [TS]

02:06:45   think that's what Schiller was kind of getting at is this idea that you know [TS]

02:06:48   these old PCs you bought them because you needed to do things with them that [TS]

02:06:53   you don't need to use a pc for anymore and you can just dump them get an ipad [TS]

02:06:57   and you'll be happy but it did I i had that thought of like you know is it sad [TS]

02:07:03   i mean p other than that pcs are sad in general which i think is part invested [TS]

02:07:08   with the statement yeah exactly and it's we have to realize that when Apple talks [TS]

02:07:11   about pcs pc is Apple lingo for windows pc yeah like the mac is a personal [TS]

02:07:18   computer but the mac is not an apple lingo a pc even though logically it is [TS]

02:07:23   and that sort of you know a lot of what shoulder was saying is just as much an [TS]

02:07:28   argument about why somebody doesn't need a mac instead of just using an iPad and [TS]

02:07:33   it's a little bit you know it it's like Windows Windows PCs become the whipping [TS]

02:07:37   boy for the ipad marketing but it's it's a little that not uncomfortable but it's [TS]

02:07:46   a little bit like I I knew with the direction shoulder was going and how [TS]

02:07:50   hard he was pushing it i knew that wasn't going to be any surprise macbooks [TS]

02:07:53   at that event because there's no way you could bring macbooks onstage after [TS]

02:07:56   everything he said about how you don't need a traditional PC yeah he did I i [TS]

02:08:01   had the thought of like going to be hard to introduce max now just because like [TS]

02:08:06   laptops are unnecessary [TS]

02:08:09   also we have laptops right like her well like I'm gonna imagine you know it's the [TS]

02:08:13   same way that like imagine if instead of unveiling a smaller iPhone if they had [TS]

02:08:18   unveiled if the iphone SE was bigger iphone like it was five point seven [TS]

02:08:21   inches the biggest phone we've ever had you don't even need a tablet anymore [TS]

02:08:24   then you can have iPads come out after that right you know this can replace a [TS]

02:08:28   tablet for for a lot of people if that was the selling of the iphone then you [TS]

02:08:33   can't come out afterwards with ipad so I kind of knew that [TS]

02:08:36   and I I'd I guess the other thing is that i think it's it's just innate to [TS]

02:08:42   somebody who is a longtime a a person like shoulder to kind of want to crack [TS]

02:08:47   jokes at windows expense that's to me it was clearly what shoulder intended it [TS]

02:08:51   was sort of a joke at windows being crappy and older windows even worse [TS]

02:08:56   right at six or seven-year-old windows machine is even worse than at least a [TS]

02:09:00   modern faster one and that's kind of sad but it definitely played wrong that mean [TS]

02:09:04   it was it way more than one person emailed me about it and you know i think [TS]

02:09:09   it was an unusual misstep for for apple [TS]

02:09:12   yeah but I mean it's like you see how they made it though because internally [TS]

02:09:15   it made all the sense in the world that i wouldn't be surprised if he said the [TS]

02:09:19   exact same thing work forward and rehearsals and nobody it didn't even [TS]

02:09:22   occur to anybody everybody to saw it as a joke and windows expense any of us who [TS]

02:09:25   have who know what the Apple lexicon is can look at what was said and be like I [TS]

02:09:29   get what he was saying they're right but but yes it seems like they maybe didn't [TS]

02:09:33   have that second thought which is but this is not how it will necessarily be [TS]

02:09:37   perceived and you know it the the usual suspects like I was waiting for Kyle [TS]

02:09:42   Williams and ifixit to chime in which he did about it because it's like that's [TS]

02:09:47   been his thing for a long time that Apple you know Apple once you to have [TS]

02:09:51   your computer be disposable and you get rid of it and replace it with a new one [TS]

02:09:54   rather than fixing it yourself and here's somebody who fix their their [TS]

02:09:57   macbook and i just referred my mom's old macbook pro I put an SSD and imax the [TS]

02:10:02   ram out and i sold and I was going to give to a friend and then they didn't [TS]

02:10:05   they bought a new computer so i sold on craigslist to a college student but it [TS]

02:10:09   was pretty great after after i got the spinning hard drive out of it and put an [TS]

02:10:13   SSD and max out the ram it was it was a 2009 or something and it was still it's [TS]

02:10:18   still fine i saw guide starbucks like a week or two ago using the black macbook [TS]

02:10:23   huh [TS]

02:10:25   and he he obviously kept it in tremendous shape because it was all it [TS]

02:10:30   just looked great looked like near mint [TS]

02:10:32   ah and it was one of those moments where I was like whoa what kind of computers i [TS]

02:10:37   got using that looks cool and then I realized what it was that was an old [TS]

02:10:41   black macbook and I was like well have talked to that kind of man he really [TS]

02:10:43   takes care of that thing but also hats off to apple for making it a design that [TS]

02:10:47   ten years later still [TS]

02:10:49   you may think what is that cool thing you get to the hard drive right from the [TS]

02:10:52   battery bay for that one so you could pull that out and putting an SSD really [TS]

02:10:55   easily and yeah it's amazing how many of the old computers the big problem with [TS]

02:10:59   them is just the drives are really slow [TS]

02:11:00   yeah that's the number one tip is now you know but I get what ya i get with [TS]

02:11:05   the shoulder is saying and it just it made it difficult to to talk about Max [TS]

02:11:10   at the event and I I certainly open to him to a little bit of criticism i get [TS]

02:11:13   what they were saying right here's what I would like I would be interested to [TS]

02:11:17   know is not how many how many five-year-old pcs our news but how many [TS]

02:11:23   like 34 year-old iPads are news [TS]

02:11:27   yeah because i still think I firmly believe that the the quote-unquote [TS]

02:11:32   problem with iPads for the way that sales have actually declined and to sort [TS]

02:11:36   of steadily gun down but are still pretty you know compared to the pcs you [TS]

02:11:41   know it's don't like they still stuff like 10 million of the quarter it's not [TS]

02:11:44   it's not going away [TS]

02:11:47   I still think that the fundamental problem is that people get problem from [TS]

02:11:50   Apple's perspective is that people get an ipad and if they like it [TS]

02:11:54   what they like about it they still like 3-4 years later they don't they don't [TS]

02:11:58   see the need to up upgrade until that the thing breaks yeah i agree i think [TS]

02:12:04   this is the you know that there's that like I forget exactly the details but [TS]

02:12:09   it's the legend of like you make a product so great that nobody ever needs [TS]

02:12:12   a replacement you go out of business because right you can't you know you [TS]

02:12:15   can't do that that's all it although that story is actually the story of [TS]

02:12:19   every app developer right thank you sell at once and then you can never sell it [TS]

02:12:23   again because it's free updates for right hand and sales as in in mind and [TS]

02:12:27   if I'm right then the reason sales were so much higher in the early years up [TS]

02:12:31   like around 20 million a quarter is because there was the ipad there was [TS]

02:12:35   nothing like it [TS]

02:12:36   and so it was an unfulfilled desire on the marketplace like when people were [TS]

02:12:44   realizing wow I think I could really use one of those things because they didn't [TS]

02:12:47   have anything like it [TS]

02:12:48   and so it was on that the sales were unnaturally high compared to [TS]

02:12:51   where they quote unquote should be yeah and i would love to know that because [TS]

02:12:57   that's clearly you know the idea is look if you have an old creaky this is what a [TS]

02:13:01   blessing if you have an old slow pc and you're looking to buy a new thing you [TS]

02:13:05   should look at this look at this ipad pro this is you know it it's the future [TS]

02:13:10   of computing it has everything you need and it does these other it's better in [TS]

02:13:14   so many ways and I think that they that kind of mine apply to iPads it might be [TS]

02:13:22   like look you think you your ipad still get enough but the new ones we've done [TS]

02:13:25   so much in the last four years and this is so much lighter and it's got a stereo [TS]

02:13:29   sound and a better display I think that it's you know it they've got to start [TS]

02:13:37   marketing it towards you know people who have old ipod and I feel like they're [TS]

02:13:41   gonna sell a lot of the of the little iPad pro because that is the mainstream [TS]

02:13:46   sighs and maybe not to people who already have an ipad air 2 / probably to [TS]

02:13:52   some of them to put two older iPads you know it's newer and lighter it's got the [TS]

02:13:56   pencil support the pencil on that size is going to be big for a lot of people [TS]

02:14:00   and so so I feel like that that is the product that we've been sort of waiting [TS]

02:14:05   for for the last year [TS]

02:14:07   oh you know what's the next 10 inch iPad and and what features it going to have [TS]

02:14:13   and it's pretty impressive set of features that it's got so I feel like [TS]

02:14:17   they are going to whether it's going to make a difference in terms of the ipads [TS]

02:14:21   overall like sales decline it who knows but i do feel like that it will be [TS]

02:14:26   enough to motivate a bunch of people to to upgrade their old iPads and they [TS]

02:14:30   haven't had any motivation for a year and a half so one of the things that [TS]

02:14:34   really interested me about it was it wasn't just a shrunk down 12-inch are [TS]

02:14:39   12.9 inch iPad pro it actually it it gained a little in terms of the display [TS]

02:14:48   and the camera has a superior camera and a better display and it lost a little in [TS]

02:14:52   that it doesn't have the the new super fancy usb3 lightning port and I don't [TS]

02:14:58   think there's anything else is missing and I could be wrong but I find that you [TS]

02:15:01   know so it's on the plus side it's a superior I patent [TS]

02:15:04   terms of the display and having the true tone technology and the camera which is [TS]

02:15:09   again like the on the iphone SE it's the success camera assembly your camera [TS]

02:15:14   system including the bump [TS]

02:15:17   yeah and on the Lightning it doesn't have USB 3 so that's interesting to me [TS]

02:15:23   because I I'm not even quite sure how that came about [TS]

02:15:27   it's like you would think it would have it would I can see how it's better in [TS]

02:15:30   some ways but I'm surprised it doesn't have USB 3 [TS]

02:15:32   yeah i was talking to christina warren about this the other day and I gave her [TS]

02:15:38   this like scenarios like if I mr. money bags and I walk into an apple store and [TS]

02:15:42   I say probably provide me your finest ipad with all of the greatest features [TS]

02:15:48   hmm they they can't because some of them around the ipad pro and some of them [TS]

02:15:54   around or some of them are ansari the the big ipad pro and some of them were [TS]

02:15:57   on the small ipad pro right and it's just a weird combination of them that [TS]

02:16:01   that you know true tone you want the true tone get the small one you want [TS]

02:16:04   usb3 transfer speeds get the big one that's an interesting you want a good [TS]

02:16:10   camera get the small one [TS]

02:16:12   all right you want the end it's got the color you want the same color gamut as [TS]

02:16:17   the modern like that the 2015 model imax read my max that's on the small one not [TS]

02:16:23   the big one right [TS]

02:16:24   I don't know kind of you know i'm assuming it'll work itself out [TS]

02:16:29   eventually you know six cherelle or a year from now but it's an interesting [TS]

02:16:34   state of affairs i can't help but think it probably is [TS]

02:16:37   it's probably just comes down to component pricing i'm guessing he added [TS]

02:16:41   that they wanted to I guess right so that big ipad pro is is at you know [TS]

02:16:46   starts at a much higher price and this one starts at five ninety-nine and I [TS]

02:16:50   guess because the display is smaller they can afford to make it better [TS]

02:16:53   I don't know i'm just guessing that whatever complicated math goes into [TS]

02:16:57   figuring out how you know how do we make it so we can sell this at 599 with the [TS]

02:17:01   margins we want that usb3 didn't make the cut [TS]

02:17:04   yeah yeah it's it's a it's a if provided guess it's a weird combination of what [TS]

02:17:11   price but what what features do we omit from the smaller the smaller model [TS]

02:17:14   because we just don't have the margins for it and what new innovations do we [TS]

02:17:17   have [TS]

02:17:18   that we can put in a brand-new product that wasn't available six months ago and [TS]

02:17:22   this is what you get is you get their product that some features removed [TS]

02:17:25   because you want to hold the line on margins but we came up with this true [TS]

02:17:30   tone thing and it wasn't ready for the the the big ipad pro but it's ready now [TS]

02:17:33   so let's ship it in there and get and get something new in there [TS]

02:17:36   this is why I ideally you don't ship your product line in alternating cycles [TS]

02:17:44   like this right ideally you say here are all the new iPad pro so I cure all the [TS]

02:17:47   new retina MacBook Pros you do it once and then you can explain while the 15 [TS]

02:17:52   has some things of 13 dozen right [TS]

02:17:54   like when I i had 11 chair right in the 11th year doesn't have a card reader for [TS]

02:17:57   example right all right [TS]

02:17:58   it just it doesn't but that's ok but if the 11 incher was out of sync with the [TS]

02:18:02   13-inch air and got the new features first but also black some old features [TS]

02:18:06   because the small one doesn't get those you'd be where we are with the ipad pro [TS]

02:18:10   where they're just kind of out of step and that's a question about you know are [TS]

02:18:14   they gonna be in step now is every spring or we going to get new iPad pro [TS]

02:18:18   models is that how it's gonna work [TS]

02:18:19   I don't know yeah I wonder or maybe because now it's immature like I said [TS]

02:18:23   like mature like in the way that the macbook pros armature maybe they come [TS]

02:18:27   out on a ipad come out on a there were when you're ready we will release some [TS]

02:18:31   schedule you know that there is no like there's no real pattern to when we [TS]

02:18:35   expect new macbooks they you know we get rumors of when they're coming out and [TS]

02:18:40   people who pay attention to intel's you know chip pipeline can estimate you know [TS]

02:18:46   well you know this chipset is coming out soon or this one is delayed so new [TS]

02:18:51   macbooks are probably delayed but it's there's no like it's not like with the [TS]

02:18:54   iphone were you know that it's going to be like a Tuesday and sip middle of sep [TS]

02:18:58   tember right here's the fierce of fascinating fact and I cannot explain it [TS]

02:19:04   so the camera bump [TS]

02:19:05   I hate camera bumps or really do i know i have I to an irrational degree really [TS]

02:19:12   hate the camera bump on the iphone 6 and success really really hate it i just [TS]

02:19:17   every time I might and I might thumb just goes to it like like rubbing like a [TS]

02:19:21   pimple on your on your other hand or like playing with a warrant or something [TS]

02:19:26   another advantage of sticking it in a case is that I don't have that i didn't [TS]

02:19:31   realize i really it's the closest it that's the main reason that I almost [TS]

02:19:35   carried my success in and day even spent like $MONEY a month with it in a cases [TS]

02:19:39   for exactly that reason because it alleviated the bump so the ipad has the [TS]

02:19:43   bump the ipad new iPad pro but when you put it on a tabletop it does not wiggle [TS]

02:19:48   it doesn't wobble [TS]

02:19:50   I don't understand how this is possible i don't i know and Matthew panza Reno [TS]

02:19:55   tweeted about it and people saying that he's full of shit and you know saying [TS]

02:19:59   you're lying I'd that's impossible and he like shot a video and it's like you [TS]

02:20:03   lay it on a flat table and it doesn't wobble I don't I i guess it [TS]

02:20:07   I don't understand I'm sure it has something to do with the curvature of [TS]

02:20:09   the earth [TS]

02:20:10   I my guess is that there's something you know you've got it so much larger item [TS]

02:20:16   then write the this much larger surface in the iphone so it probably has [TS]

02:20:20   something to do with the angle of the lift of it being reduced by that amount [TS]

02:20:24   of distance right so that it's it's um it's imperceptible compared to something [TS]

02:20:30   that's very because if you had something that was really small and there was like [TS]

02:20:33   a bump on one side and maybe might the the the angle would be greater [TS]

02:20:38   maybe my dining room table it isn't perfectly flat I don't know it could be [TS]

02:20:42   its it but and so somebody out there right now to return the earth i'm [TS]

02:20:46   telling you somebody out of their physics man it might wobble on [TS]

02:20:49   somebody's table and I'd be interested to hear from anybody if if they get it [TS]

02:20:52   and it does wobble but I if you're concerned about the camera bump is that [TS]

02:20:55   when you lay it flat on the table it's gonna wobble I'm telling you it doesn't [TS]

02:20:58   so it's got that going for it but that's good because that would be a disaster if [TS]

02:21:03   that was the case like hey it's got the Apple pencil you can draw on and now lay [TS]

02:21:06   it on a table and nope that would be awful [TS]

02:21:10   otherwise I don't you know I don't know what to do what else to say about it you [TS]

02:21:16   know the ipad pro it's got the pencil so it's so when when uh when they announced [TS]

02:21:21   the true tone feature somebody in the audience went huh and phil schiller went [TS]

02:21:27   on somebody knows what I'm talking that was me and afterward you said it was you [TS]

02:21:30   i swear to god that was everybody not surprised I'm so not surprised i don't [TS]

02:21:34   think that's quite the noise i made but I did I did [TS]

02:21:38   probably reacted I audibly reacted because to me it's like the next step up [TS]

02:21:43   from retina like and I wanted to read the screens you know my entire life so I [TS]

02:21:48   can no longer see the pixels because clearly that's the way it should be but [TS]

02:21:51   to do i adjust for color temperature is the next you know it something I've [TS]

02:21:57   thought of for as long as I've been using computers because I've noticed but [TS]

02:22:00   boy at nighttime when you have incandescent lights on boy the white [TS]

02:22:05   doesn't look like white anyway it looks to wait or something you know that it's [TS]

02:22:10   not like paper right well it's not it's not white balancing like you know our [TS]

02:22:15   eyes white balance two men match the temperature of the light but the the . [TS]

02:22:20   the device doesn't know right it's just one set to whatever color temperature is [TS]

02:22:24   set to and that's what you get [TS]

02:22:26   right it's a good it's a great idea i want to see it in practice right i want [TS]

02:22:30   to go through that and see whether this is something that I really you know I [TS]

02:22:33   really noticed or not but I like I really like the idea of it and like [TS]

02:22:37   Craig Hockenberry was saying this is there's a lot of color management [TS]

02:22:40   business that's happening on on your iPad these days and and for any of us [TS]

02:22:45   from the old sort of desktop publishing days the idea that you've got really [TS]

02:22:51   interesting things happening with color on these devices is a really great i was [TS]

02:22:56   talking to want to talk to Glen fleischmann i was on the macro podcast [TS]

02:23:00   500 and we were talking about this and and he mentioned that this is one of [TS]

02:23:04   those moments where you kind of wish that Bruce Fraser was still around [TS]

02:23:07   because he would love he would love this he was a he he passed away a few years [TS]

02:23:10   ago but he was a color management like God basically I learned so much from [TS]

02:23:16   that guy about how can human the brain perceives color and all of this stuff [TS]

02:23:20   and it's really interesting to see Apple go down this path where it's like you [TS]

02:23:24   know we all just took for granted that the white point of your display was what [TS]

02:23:28   it was [TS]

02:23:29   remember when you used to have to calibrate it manually oh yeah like I [TS]

02:23:32   have cross your eyes and adjust this thing that'll you get the rack amma yeah [TS]

02:23:36   oh yeah I'm and then they make like things with suction cups that you stick [TS]

02:23:41   on my screen and then it would put something on it and it would read what [TS]

02:23:44   the light was off of it and we know how to calibrate the display so that it [TS]

02:23:47   would get an app that the color that would be the same as the color that you [TS]

02:23:50   would print and the same as the color that would come [TS]

02:23:52   out on the offset press when you print your catalog all of that you know just [TS]

02:23:57   so much goes into that and and it's a little bit like there's like memory [TS]

02:24:01   color this idea that that you it's almost like an optical illusion is your [TS]

02:24:05   brain your brain knows what colors things are so it will actually adjust [TS]

02:24:08   what you see to be the color that it isn't like if you see an apple and it's [TS]

02:24:13   red but it's the wrong read your brain like Rex it onto it and makes it the [TS]

02:24:17   right red and that's not what you're seeing but it's what you think you're [TS]

02:24:20   seeing so there's so much in here and so for Apple to like dip their toe in and [TS]

02:24:24   be like yeah we're gonna we're gonna work on color now or this is the next [TS]

02:24:28   frontier for us is a it's really interesting beyond just the the true [TS]

02:24:32   tone feature [TS]

02:24:33   yeah it's I haven't spent I i have the ipad pro never have a review unit of it [TS]

02:24:39   I haven't spent so far haven't I spent most of my time with the iphone not the [TS]

02:24:43   ipad so i've i've tinkered with it but not a diamond we spent that much more [TS]

02:24:48   time with the really looking at the at the nights are not a chip that the true [TS]

02:24:52   tone then you did it [TS]

02:24:54   the event really it but it's it is nice [TS]

02:24:58   it definitely it is in its not a gimmick it's in a I totally believe shoulder [TS]

02:25:02   that once you get used to it you wanted on all your devices i think it's going [TS]

02:25:06   to have a better effect than the than the nite chef thing I think then I think [TS]

02:25:10   night shift is is it a gimmick [TS]

02:25:12   I mean if there's people out there listen who really do feel like they get [TS]

02:25:15   a better night's sleep but then good [TS]

02:25:16   I I you know I wish everybody a good night's sleep but to me it seems like a [TS]

02:25:20   gimmick [TS]

02:25:21   yeah it's um I think it's fine but I I when I think about true tone I think [TS]

02:25:27   what what the best benefit of night shift is solved by true tone there that [TS]

02:25:36   night shift i use night shift i've been using the 93 beta for awhile on my iPad [TS]

02:25:40   pro because the the big ipad pro had the 9.9 point2 was working on the guide [TS]

02:25:48   press i've been using the beta for a while and so I had night shift and I [TS]

02:25:52   find myself using it a lot at night and in the early morning when I've got [TS]

02:25:56   incandescent lights and the the super blue white color temperature of the of [TS]

02:26:02   the display is like totally out of whack with my surroundings [TS]

02:26:06   well the night shift can do that but true tone does that true tone does that [TS]

02:26:10   solve that same problem where the white that you're seeing on your screen is in [TS]

02:26:14   context with the rest of your environment and when you do that [TS]

02:26:19   I feel like you've got the you've got most of the problem solve that for me [TS]

02:26:23   like I don't even need night shift if I've got a device that will just make my [TS]

02:26:27   ipad screen warm when i'm in the warm dark light of my living room at ten at [TS]

02:26:33   night it could just be yeah I it's to me it's just making it look better [TS]

02:26:37   it's not about magically get you know that this solves the problem of getting [TS]

02:26:42   a good night's sleep again if i could be wrong [TS]

02:26:45   I don't know but I thought even the way Apple spoke about night shift on stage [TS]

02:26:47   was sort of like acknowledging that this is junk science that or at least the [TS]

02:26:51   science is this quote-unquote science behind it as a little questionable there [TS]

02:26:55   like some people say that you get a better night's sleep i think that the [TS]

02:27:00   problem and I i totally believe that there's a problem there I just think the [TS]

02:27:03   problem is staring at glowing screens . and that color shifting it isn't solving [TS]

02:27:07   the problem have you might have [TS]

02:27:08   do you see Glenn's piece on macworld no I don't think I did it is new as we [TS]

02:27:12   record this i think it was today at it when I definitely didn't see it he [TS]

02:27:15   doesn't hot heat to actually talk to some people who are researchers in this [TS]

02:27:18   field and i'm sure people are going to be skeptical and they're gonna they're [TS]

02:27:21   gonna try to debate him on this but what Glenn basically said is it's not if it [TS]

02:27:27   helps you if you feel it helps you great but there's not a lot of science to [TS]

02:27:30   suggest that at the levels where Apple is doing this where they're still [TS]

02:27:34   keeping some blue in there so it's so it's just less it's it's it's an issue [TS]

02:27:40   brightness and the fact that they're not cutting all the blue out because you cut [TS]

02:27:43   all the blue out it would look really bad like you wouldn't want to use it and [TS]

02:27:47   so they're keeping some of it in there i think it's okay i think it looks bad [TS]

02:27:50   with as much Blues are taking out investor is right i don't like it [TS]

02:27:53   see so that's the so what his point is you know yeah it's it your brightness is [TS]

02:27:57   a big factor in it too and and how much does this affect the melatonin in your [TS]

02:28:01   brain and I I think everybody would say that yet not having bright glowing [TS]

02:28:05   screens is going to help you sleep better but having a slightly less bright [TS]

02:28:10   slightly less blue glowing screen that you're looking at it may it may not help [TS]

02:28:14   enough to override the fact that you're watching that screen right I think you [TS]

02:28:18   do kind of kidding yourself [TS]

02:28:20   yeah you know maybe the answers you know read a book better not turn off the TV [TS]

02:28:24   and give yourself an hour where you're just reading a book or something like [TS]

02:28:27   that right get a subscription to the paper edition of your favorite magazine [TS]

02:28:31   yeah I want to talk a little bit about Garry Shandling I'm just assuming that [TS]

02:28:36   you were a Shandling fan [TS]

02:28:37   yeah I didn't see as much I I never had premium cable so i came to a lot of it [TS]

02:28:42   late like I watched the garish it's Garry Shandling show on Fox when they [TS]

02:28:46   cut it up and put it on Fox could I never had one kid I we didn't have cable [TS]

02:28:50   so I certainly don't have showtime and then Larry Sanders also it was like a [TS]

02:28:55   sporadic thing where they were getting to get rerun somewhere else I saw them [TS]

02:29:00   but I saw them like late i was never right like in on it but also as when we [TS]

02:29:04   talked about as a as a late-night talk-show person I just remember him [TS]

02:29:08   from all of his great guest bits and guest host bits on The Tonight Show and [TS]

02:29:12   on letterman right well before we talk about channeling let's don't think our [TS]

02:29:16   fourth and final sponsor and it's a good friend of mail route ma I LRO ute IT [TS]

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02:29:49   for a domain mail route is something you really want to look at who can you trust [TS]

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02:30:36   touch it but if you want to if you want to nerd out and customize it they have [TS]

02:30:40   an API that can you could program it you can do all sorts of super nerdy stuff i [TS]

02:30:46   mean if you're an email nerd you're gonna love this [TS]

02:30:49   the spam filtering that they do is as good as any that I've seen [TS]

02:30:54   I you know some of my domains are go through google and google has great spam [TS]

02:30:59   filtering ah i think apple spam filtering has gotten a lot better with [TS]

02:31:03   mac.com over the years mail route spam filtering is just as as good as it can [TS]

02:31:08   get almost no false positives and almost in all the junk goes through just it's [TS]

02:31:13   it's like the old days of email before spam was invented [TS]

02:31:16   it's an amazing they've also got and I think this is key they've got great [TS]

02:31:20   interface for going through and checking did you know if you need to check to see [TS]

02:31:24   if something was erroneously applied to spam or something like that you can [TS]

02:31:27   still get it it's not like that spam what they call span just gets flushed [TS]

02:31:31   away [TS]

02:31:32   could not be better they have price-matching from mcafee and MX logic [TS]

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02:31:56   to switch it off if you don't want to use it so here's where you go mail route [TS]

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02:32:19   account lifetime so if you're using them 10 years from now you'll save your still [TS]

02:32:23   be saving ten ten percent so my thanks to them [TS]

02:32:27   the Shandling thing off Jason it it i feel like this is I feel like this is [TS]

02:32:32   maybe like the rest of my life is all of a sudden now people who start dying are [TS]

02:32:36   like people who I cannot believe that they've died and like a heart attack at [TS]

02:32:40   66 isn't exactly old age but it is sort of you know it's the sort of thing that [TS]

02:32:44   when i was a kid and they somebody famous person died of a heart attack at [TS]

02:32:48   66 as a kid I thought well that's you know that's what happens when you get [TS]

02:32:52   old sometimes people have heart attacks and I I i don't know if it's like [TS]

02:32:57   Shannon's to close in age to me though it's like it just seems like I'm at the [TS]

02:33:01   age now where 66 is tragically young [TS]

02:33:04   yeah well I mean that was what he and Jerry Seinfeld talked about in that [TS]

02:33:08   comedians in cars getting coffee right is like the the only time they ever [TS]

02:33:12   referred as it being in your sixties is as so young is when you die in existence [TS]

02:33:16   but its true like and some of it is the older you get the more you push off like [TS]

02:33:22   old age right it's like now 40 is known that 50s and 60s milk but also just our [TS]

02:33:27   human lifespans are increasing right and and our working lives are increasing and [TS]

02:33:34   so what was a retiree maybe when we were kids is now a more active kind of age [TS]

02:33:40   today so you look at him being 66 and yeah I guess this is how life is going [TS]

02:33:44   to be even okay as you get older all these people that you love our are dying [TS]

02:33:50   but but yeah to just too young I was I didn't have showtime either i did have [TS]

02:33:57   cable though so I was exposed to the it's Garry Shandling show on Fox [TS]

02:34:02   yea which was slightly edited I guess there were no commercials and some [TS]

02:34:07   whatever like if their words are nudity or whatever but yeah me too i but i just [TS]

02:34:12   it it spoke to me in a way that the only other person you know when you and I [TS]

02:34:16   have spoken at length about our mutual love for David Letterman it spoke to me [TS]

02:34:22   in a way that only Letterman did in the way that he was playing with the form of [TS]

02:34:25   TP and it's it a couple of the obituaries meant mentioned it that he [TS]

02:34:31   was just a master of television and a way that like I don't know if you ever [TS]

02:34:36   considered you know like having a film career although he did have it was the [TS]

02:34:40   the senator in the iron man 2 yeah write it in a way that like the basic gist of [TS]

02:34:47   show business was always at least in our lifetimes you know in the late 20th [TS]

02:34:52   century was TV was the B team in the eighth in feature films are the a-team [TS]

02:34:57   you know that's what you aspire to do and its handling is a guy who clearly i [TS]

02:35:04   mean Letterman to because remember these to be talking about Letterman doing [TS]

02:35:07   movies and disney you know wanted to [TS]

02:35:09   who is the CEO of disney oh I michael eisner michael eisner will really wanted [TS]

02:35:14   to sign Letterman to a movie deal and letters like have you ever seen you know [TS]

02:35:19   i'm a terrible actor you don't want to do this and you're like just let us give [TS]

02:35:23   you the money we'll just let it and then like they dug up like Letterman's [TS]

02:35:26   audition for airplane and neither was like holy shit you're right you're [TS]

02:35:30   terrible absolutely terrible [TS]

02:35:33   yeah ceilings a guy who clearly did [TS]

02:35:37   it's like is genius was specific to TV it's quitted it wouldn't have had any [TS]

02:35:41   relevance to the movies it was TV as TV not TV as movies on a small screen that [TS]

02:35:48   the nature of television was such that it just happened [TS]

02:35:52   he mastered it in a way that it it just blew me away as a kid was like this is a [TS]

02:35:57   guy who totally gets it like Letterman he was present in this medium while he [TS]

02:36:03   was like poking at all the all the edges of it and like I mean it's Garry [TS]

02:36:07   Shandling show broke my brain because I it was a show that new was a TV show and [TS]

02:36:12   characters knew their characters on the TV show that's what am I seeing here [TS]

02:36:17   right as a kid as a whatever 15 16 year-old kid is just battling and [TS]

02:36:22   brilliant and in the same way the leatherman was taking all of the as [TS]

02:36:26   we've talked about before all the conventions of talk shows and [TS]

02:36:29   questioning why any of them existed right so it also really just blows my [TS]

02:36:37   mind that he did it twice in quick succession where he had the it's Garry [TS]

02:36:41   Shandling show which which was this sitcom sitcom you know that the sitcom [TS]

02:36:47   us sitcom that's ever existed wacky neighbor the platonic friendship with [TS]

02:36:52   the [TS]

02:36:53   the woman all of these tropes of the modern sitcom and he just blew them all [TS]

02:36:59   away by by opening up the fourth wall and talking to the camera and talking to [TS]

02:37:03   the audience and having the audience throw things at the characters and then [TS]

02:37:07   two years later coming back with another like meta i mean that's that's the thing [TS]

02:37:14   is the master of like this meta aspect of TV and doing meta in a totally [TS]

02:37:20   opposite way where there's no breaking down of the fourth wall but there is [TS]

02:37:24   this weird fake talk show within the show that looked as it looked more like [TS]

02:37:29   The Tonight Show than the tonight show did huh well he hosted it tonight show [TS]

02:37:34   he was like before before Jay Leno became the guest host here at 44 years [TS]

02:37:39   he was like the permanent guest host of The Tonight Show he would fill in for [TS]

02:37:42   Johnny right a lot and I remember seeing him fill in for Johnny a lot and and so [TS]

02:37:47   he knew that was the fascinating thing about layer at the Larry Sanders Show is [TS]

02:37:50   that the people who did that especially Garry Shandling he knew exactly how [TS]

02:37:55   those shows worked in New the he knew the hosts he had been in consideration [TS]

02:38:02   for the jobs right I believe he was considered for to be David Letterman's [TS]

02:38:08   replacement at one point [TS]

02:38:09   yeah um yeah we had the offer he was offered it and turned it down [TS]

02:38:14   I'm not quite sure if he was ever I i think that he had actually sort of [TS]

02:38:18   stepped away from wanting to dos you know do it full time so that he was [TS]

02:38:22   never really like into consideration like at the point where they needed to [TS]

02:38:25   replace Johnny he was already like I'm out of it but I think you're exactly [TS]

02:38:30   right though that in the late eighties you know he was absolutely in [TS]

02:38:34   consideration [TS]

02:38:35   yeah and and so he had all of that knowledge right he was he was an insider [TS]

02:38:40   this was not this is not somebody like Aaron Sorkin doing studio 60 on the [TS]

02:38:46   Sunset Strip where he had sort of like a glancing blow at this at this uh at this [TS]

02:38:51   industry but really was kind of imagining a fantasy version of it this [TS]

02:38:56   larry sanders was people who understood how the TV industry work and haven't [TS]

02:39:01   talked just worked making a show that was Insider E on one level but also [TS]

02:39:07   kind of like at times just a scabrous commentary and satire of of the not just [TS]

02:39:13   the show but the gas right and and it was in it you see the roots of so many [TS]

02:39:17   things it's a the the cringe comedy of things like an office come from this [TS]

02:39:22   your enthusiasm absolutely up while I mean it very Garry Shandling and Jerry [TS]

02:39:27   Seinfeld really did they did the shows across the lot from each other they went [TS]

02:39:31   and visited in that community with cars getting coffee episode and so so it i [TS]

02:39:34   think they influence each other for free for seinfeld definitely Richard they [TS]

02:39:38   said that all of his stuff is just super influenced by Garry Shandling and then [TS]

02:39:41   something like 30 rock is another good example where 30 rock is absolutely you [TS]

02:39:45   know would not exist for Larry Sanders right and took it you know and it [TS]

02:39:49   totally did in her own way and and went like super fast pace and joke joke joke [TS]

02:39:54   joke which is you know the density of jokes on 30 rock just blows me away [TS]

02:39:59   yeah but you're right though it's you know it's it all sort of those itself [TS]

02:40:05   back to to Larry Sanders it's and it's amazing to me that he did those two [TS]

02:40:11   shows like almost back to back guys [TS]

02:40:15   yeah it'sit's the the Hall of Fame kind of thing where it's like those are Larry [TS]

02:40:21   Sanders Show is like in the hall of fame and and you could make the argument for [TS]

02:40:24   for the fritz Garry Shandling show two before that the idea that that when it's [TS]

02:40:30   Garry Shandling she was going off the air that that would be a footnote would [TS]

02:40:35   seem impossible and yet the next project was the thing that just kind of blew [TS]

02:40:38   everybody away [TS]

02:40:39   I just remember him as a he was a really great stand-up i just remember how good [TS]

02:40:42   he was a stand-up on the Letterman Show especially that and you could tell you [TS]

02:40:47   could tell when Letterman when it was somebody who he liked like you could [TS]

02:40:51   tell they would you bring them over afterward they would talk and they do [TS]

02:40:54   more comedy in the end and Chandler was definitely in that list like he was he [TS]

02:40:58   was i read a few obituaries that said that he was definitely like a comedians [TS]

02:41:02   comedians like they all they all just were in awe of how good he was as a [TS]

02:41:07   medium and he never really did anything after the Larry Sanders Show I mean I'm [TS]

02:41:13   you know you mean other than like you know guest appearances here and [TS]

02:41:15   everybody never had a major project but by all accounts that have read [TS]

02:41:19   especially I've read it before [TS]

02:41:20   but and now that you know he's dead and it's all coming out but it really it's [TS]

02:41:24   just almost universal that he was very generous and giving to anybody you know [TS]

02:41:29   the up-and-comers like the Judd Apatow's and and the people who are in there I'm [TS]

02:41:33   right now in comedy that he really was you know they could come to him with [TS]

02:41:36   like hey I'm working you know here's my script and i'm stuck here do you have [TS]

02:41:39   any ideas and and would help him out in an industry that's notorious for having [TS]

02:41:44   you know being filled with personalities that are let's say left less than [TS]

02:41:47   generous [TS]

02:41:48   yeah exactly that and I think it's people like people actually like liked [TS]

02:41:52   him and thought he was a good guy [TS]

02:41:54   I think it's very telling that you never hear that about like Jay Leno nobody [TS]

02:41:58   ever says butthead jay leno really knows how to help help out and up and cover [TS]

02:42:01   you know and the Chevy Chase everybody a Chevy Chase [TS]

02:42:05   nobody ever says that or nobody ever says boy it's a real shame that [TS]

02:42:09   something seems to be wrong with gypsy it's not because i get i get that yeah I [TS]

02:42:14   don't know I I think about that sometimes like if you're if you if [TS]

02:42:18   you're one of these TV stars who has a huge hit and I think in case Larry [TS]

02:42:25   Sanders he owned a big piece of it to like this was before HBO made the deal [TS]

02:42:29   like it's not on HBO they're actually bringing it back to the HBO [TS]

02:42:32   yeah song service but it went off at because back in those days HBO didn't [TS]

02:42:37   buy like all rights to everything in perpetuity like they do now but I'm so [TS]

02:42:42   you make all this money just insane TV money for being on a show for seven [TS]

02:42:46   years and he had another six years show before that and I I always wanted like [TS]

02:42:50   what do you do some people big stars and big successes they they react in [TS]

02:42:54   different ways some people try to recapture it other people just kind of [TS]

02:42:57   do passion projects other people just like i don't i don't care i'm gonna I [TS]

02:43:02   mean I think Bill Murray is sort of in this catalog category to wear like he [TS]

02:43:05   wants to work when he's moved to work like when he finds something that for [TS]

02:43:11   whatever reason interest him and he doesn't need to work right and and [TS]

02:43:16   obviously for him he's not he's not so obsessed with with keeping busy that he [TS]

02:43:21   always has to have a project he's kinda okay and I think Garry Shandling was [TS]

02:43:25   kinda like that where he would pop in on the occasional thing like anything like [TS]

02:43:29   I would love to know the story of why he chose to do the Marvel movies [TS]

02:43:33   was the Captain America and Iron Man movies like he was in a couple the [TS]

02:43:37   senator is kind of a rotten senator villain character right well I'm no [TS]

02:43:42   swimming it's a bit of a spoiler but it ends up he's a Hydra yeah you thought [TS]

02:43:47   he's a bad guy I mean he said he's a he's a correct senator Howard why did he [TS]

02:43:52   decide that it was probably something like he knew somebody who was involved [TS]

02:43:55   and thought it would be fun and i had to guess I don't know the story but if i [TS]

02:43:59   had to guess I'll bet he was pet friends with jon favreau that could be because I [TS]

02:44:03   think jon favreau is I mean he's more of a foot is a filmmaker not really a comic [TS]

02:44:07   but I think he's in with you know I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the [TS]

02:44:10   same pack of guys you know like like Judd Apatow her pals i'll bet it's the [TS]

02:44:16   Jon Favreau and so it looks to me like after he finished he Larry Sanders he [TS]

02:44:20   was pretty much happy to just kind of mess around when he wanted to and not [TS]

02:44:24   worry about it otherwise and you know when you've got I think that's a [TS]

02:44:28   question that most of us will never have to deal with in our life but it but is [TS]

02:44:32   that question of like if you won the lottery or something you created became [TS]

02:44:36   a wild success and you literally didn't have to work again what would you do [TS]

02:44:40   and would you just go to an island and sit out in the Sun all day or would you [TS]

02:44:43   work because you want to work and pretend that you don't have that money [TS]

02:44:46   or would you kind of find a way to compromise where you know you weren't [TS]

02:44:50   gonna work too hard but you'd be you want to come to keep in the game a [TS]

02:44:53   little bit you know haha yeah you know and just touch on one other thing that [TS]

02:44:57   you put the HBO deal it's a gig in addition to the fact that the Larry [TS]

02:45:02   Sanders Show in and of itself stands up as a tremendous body of work I've [TS]

02:45:07   watched the whole thing through at least three times at least three [TS]

02:45:10   well now that he's dead I think I'm them it's like to do it again I'm going to do [TS]

02:45:13   it once that's on HBO [TS]

02:45:15   yeah i'm gonna wait for it to be on HBO [TS]

02:45:18   I are I say three times but i think a lot of the time I've done a special was [TS]

02:45:23   originally iike you couldn't stream it so it's like you either caught it or you [TS]

02:45:26   didn't [TS]

02:45:27   and so you know i may not have hit I was like watching it when i was home when it [TS]

02:45:30   was on but I you know I might missed episodes and at least once those in the [TS]

02:45:35   digital era I've watched the whole thing but it's the fact that it even that [TS]

02:45:39   they're even our shows that we think of HBO is a network that has shows is in [TS]

02:45:43   large part driven by their originated by [TS]

02:45:46   The Larry Sanders Show like that's what we think of HBO now primarily but at the [TS]

02:45:50   time HBO is where you went to watch movies [TS]

02:45:53   yeah and then sometimes they have shows but a lot of their shows where things [TS]

02:45:57   like Bryant Gumbel sports thing they weren't like a original the fiction you [TS]

02:46:02   know [TS]

02:46:03   yeah they're their strategy has changed pretty dramatically and that's when n is [TS]

02:46:07   part of that made they were they locked up all the writes like a pretty they [TS]

02:46:10   produce all their own shows they own the rights to them they're all you know [TS]

02:46:13   that's why the wire is on HBO like that it will always be on HBO in the sopranos [TS]

02:46:18   and six exactor exactly so Larry Sanders wasn't predates that time but they is [TS]

02:46:24   the school like before he died [TS]

02:46:25   they were Garry Shandling had made a deal with HBO to bring Larry Sanders [TS]

02:46:28   back onto HBO and onto HBO streaming so it will get there eventually and then I [TS]

02:46:33   it's a shame that they can't I hope they're right like rushing to get it on [TS]

02:46:37   because I think we would all love to go back and watch that stuff again [TS]

02:46:42   ya feel better about it well the other . you know any other genius aspect to it [TS]

02:46:45   was that he had the foresight a time when stand-up comedians that the goal [TS]

02:46:49   was to get a network sitcom his goal he saw like past that he was like if I can [TS]

02:46:54   you know I can do something on Showtime or HBO that you can't do on the [TS]

02:46:58   network's you know like I think it was less about the money and the fame and a [TS]

02:47:02   little bit more about the not to be pretentious but the artistic integrity [TS]

02:47:07   you know of doing something that you couldn't get on network TV and avoiding [TS]

02:47:12   the you know the that the annoyance of the commercial interruptions [TS]

02:47:18   I mean I know he did have it you know he let the show The One Show be on fox it [TS]

02:47:22   which was I don't let the backstory is on that but but especially with Larry [TS]

02:47:26   Sanders that he saw that you know it wasn't like well I can't get a network [TS]

02:47:31   show but I'll you know do an HBO show it's like clearly he saw HBO is a way to [TS]

02:47:34   do something that he couldn't do on it on a network [TS]

02:47:39   yeah yeah it's a it's a it's said and and for the people who know him it's you [TS]

02:47:45   know it's really tragic for the rest of us the good thing to come out of [TS]

02:47:49   something terrible like this is I do really i like that so many people have [TS]

02:47:55   come out to appreciate his talent and his work because you know that's I think [TS]

02:48:00   that's all that any of us could ask for is is when we go that somebody says wow [TS]

02:48:03   that that I like that person they did a great job that they were brilliant i'm [TS]

02:48:07   gonna miss them and I definitely feel that way about about handling and and [TS]

02:48:11   also celebrating his work i mean that's that's why I want that stuff back on HBO [TS]

02:48:15   Go is that i wanna i wanna go back and appreciate his work i did watch that [TS]

02:48:20   comedians in cars getting coffee again right uh yesterday for the same thing [TS]

02:48:24   it's like let me know but now that he's he's gone [TS]

02:48:28   you know it's worth reminding ourselves how how great he was when he was here [TS]

02:48:32   yeah alright Jason thank you so much for your generous use of your time i'm happy [TS]

02:48:38   to is always always enjoy having you on the show always enjoy your insight i [TS]

02:48:44   won't see you again until probably WC yeah i know we always run into each [TS]

02:48:48   other at these weird weird advanced one of these days i'll actually just sort of [TS]

02:48:52   be in Philadelphia for no reason to say hey John but uh but yeah it was good to [TS]

02:48:56   see this week too [TS]

02:48:57   yeah thnkx all sponsors and you can get as much Jason's now as you would ever [TS]

02:49:03   want on six colors . com six colors . stay with you could even put you in it [TS]

02:49:14   if you're in Canada or the UK [TS]

02:49:16   yeah you do any other podcasts now not really a podcasting is a you can find [TS]

02:49:23   many podcast by me at the uncomfortable calm and it really . FM I i did the math [TS]

02:49:29   the other day and I don't want to tell you what I realized how many podcasts i [TS]

02:49:32   do in a week on average it's too many is the answer to many but it you've gotten [TS]

02:49:38   good at it though [TS]

02:49:39   well this week we got the Atlantic did this big feature about what a robot is [TS]

02:49:43   and the quotes from John Syracuse's and my podcast robot or not at length and I [TS]

02:49:48   just thought you know I'm gonna be really mad if the thing that I am [TS]

02:49:52   number four is robot or not just like not my life's work so hey let me ask you [TS]

02:49:57   liam is really a robot [TS]

02:50:00   you got a circus i would say i would say probably not because it's more like a [TS]

02:50:06   certain uses definition of robot is very narrow which is that it could sort of [TS]

02:50:09   have some it's got sort of do some self evaluation itself so like a Roomba you [TS]

02:50:14   just press the button and it kind of figures out what to do but he doesn't [TS]

02:50:19   think like a an automotive assembly line robot is really a robot he thinks it's [TS]

02:50:22   just programmed equipment and right so he would say he would say no but he is a [TS]

02:50:27   very strict robot definer [TS]

02:50:36   yeah [TS]

02:50:43   yeah [TS]

02:50:50   yeah [TS]

02:50:57   yeah [TS]