The Talk Show

150: ‘Strict Robot Definer’, With Special Guest Jason Snell

 

  they're feel like I just saw you [TS]

  well i feel like i did just see you I mean like it what it's not like one of [TS]

  those euphemisms boy it seems like it was it was like monday Monday afternoon [TS]

  what a week yeah it's a big week I was a did you see that baseball perspective is [TS]

  launching an entire site devoted to the Mets have that moment like I didn't [TS]

  matter but it turns out they've got a bunch of local sites they already have a [TS]

  Bronx site for the for the Yankees so you're they don't have a have a giant [TS]

  site that one I feel I feel slighted there but it's baseball [TS]

  it's coming to becoming Scott becoming try it sometime . it's a big market [TS]

  yeah and there's a good team I'm sure it'll happen but you know yes . that [TS]

  they launched like ESPN boston or something and yeah exactly [TS]

  expand as and in New York yeah but they never did a again they never did a [TS]

  California even let alone Bay Area sports and subside I don't know what it [TS]

  is i think it's because people in California don't care about sports I [TS]

  think that's probably actually this is the the fact from capita like some of us [TS]

  care about it but most of us know have you looked at the the MLB app for Apple [TS]

  TV recently like in the preseason I know what happened [TS]

  I has progressed and some so very disappointing ways I think and this is [TS]

  because people ask you know they probably ask you this they definitely [TS]

  ask me this because iíve written about that app a bunch and i went to it went [TS]

  to New York and and met those guys which was really cool to go to the MLB [TS]

  advanced media offices [TS]

  yeah and the good guys they love the Apple platforms that they've got a great [TS]

  team of developers they're really happy about the new Apple TV because the if [TS]

  you ever did you ever see their PlayStation app no oh it was amazing it [TS]

  was better I think maybe the xbox one app is like this now but there was a [TS]

  period in there where the PlayStation app was the MLB app like it had you [TS]

  could see the metadata that they would drop in of like when there was a hit or [TS]

  when there was a homer or when there was a run and you could use the you know [TS]

  playstation controller to like jump jump to the next scoring play [TS]

  just incredible amounts of data was it was way more complex than anything I've [TS]

  seen on any other platform so I I knew they were going to be excited about the [TS]

  apple TV because they were they will be able to build a nap instead of just sort [TS]

  of like a list of streams all right but the problem with the MLB stuff is they [TS]

  make these press releases for spring training but in reality their ship date [TS]

  is like the first day of the season so I i'm reluctant to write about their apps [TS]

  during spring training because they're you know first off the like data that's [TS]

  being collected and the video that's being generated is not of its like [TS]

  substandard quality because it's not the regular season so that's that's a big [TS]

  part of it and and I do think they're like they're busy doing the app version [TS]

  that's gonna release on opening day and that's the one to write about because [TS]

  you know I bet that it's yeah what they've got on the apple TV right now [TS]

  what they've got on the ipad right now and yeah it's okay but it's like spring [TS]

  training mode I I feel like there's always a better version that the drops [TS]

  at the end of march i think so i hope so i think though that it in this [TS]

  particular case I think that they might be sort of well that's gonna stay behind [TS]

  the eight ball but i might be mixing metaphors but I'm i feel like the [TS]

  platform changes are so significant that I I think they'll get there eventually [TS]

  because like you said it's a phenomenal team and they really do care but at the [TS]

  moment it's it's really kind of weird how it's like worse than the old apple [TS]

  TV app yeah that's not good [TS]

  does not like that the big one is that you can't decide like give you let's say [TS]

  you start to watch a game after it started it but it's on like the game [TS]

  started at seven and you start watching at eight [TS]

  you don't even get the choice anymore whether you want to start from the [TS]

  beginning or watch life it just it just sort of streams and put your like you [TS]

  know 30 seconds behind live well that's not good [TS]

  no baby I'm sure they'll get to the yeah I'm sure I'm sure they will you you're [TS]

  so you're a Yankee fan in philly so right you're out of are very lucky right [TS]

  they did so there was this big class action lawsuit about a lot of things [TS]

  involving sports leagues and video and in in out-of-market video and stuff like [TS]

  that it's it's a things are are changing starting this year and one of the things [TS]

  that they changed is that they're offering like a one-team [TS]

  in market streaming package would you buy that instead of the everything it's [TS]

  like you can say 40 bucks or thirty bucks and and just get Yankees games or [TS]

  would you do you want the whole spread if you buy the package to you by the way [TS]

  i do back out to know I I definitely buy it and its lucky and for those of you [TS]

  who aren't sports and it's you know you gotta listen to some supports talk on [TS]

  this show but the gist of this market thing is and it sounds crazy but if [TS]

  you're not a sports fan you might think it's super crazy is that like if you [TS]

  live in the home market of a team so let's say for me that would be the [TS]

  Philadelphia Phillies you can't stream their game is a home or away because the [TS]

  idea is you're supposed to pay for cable to get the channel on cable that pays to [TS]

  carry their games regularly but you can pay MLB what is like a hundred [TS]

  twenty-eight year [TS]

  well so part of the settlement of a lawsuit it's it's a hundred this year [TS]

  huh [TS]

  so for a hundred bucks you can get the MLB thing and you can watch every game [TS]

  except for the one that that are local to you [TS]

  yeah but they definitely you know and I'm sure that there's ways around it [TS]

  with the VPN and stuff like that but it's on iOS though because i was his [TS]

  location services so yeah if you've got location services turned on its easier [TS]

  on a mac to fake where you are in the world but it's hard around an iphone or [TS]

  an ipad right like the one time I was out i remember it was like two years ago [TS]

  I think it was two years ago the Yankees were playing the oakland athletics and I [TS]

  was out for WWDC and I wanted to pop the game on my iPhone and they were like you [TS]

  can't watch it and I'm like oh you get must have the wrong location for me and [TS]

  I'm like oh wait yeah do you have the right location for me it's it's amazing [TS]

  it's it's it's one of those I mean this is not just a sports conversation [TS]

  because it's about like how technology is totally swapping the the the [TS]

  entertainment industry that this is like a TV industry problem and how do you [TS]

  protect me and it's very easy to say well people cut the cord you just have [TS]

  to deal with it's stupid that they're not offering it but like if you look at [TS]

  the deal the dodgers signed their cable deal in la is worth like 30 billion [TS]

  dollars or something like that it's insane it is it amazing amount of money [TS]

  and why is it that much money the answer is because the case [TS]

  the company figures that if they control the Dodgers TV rights [TS]

  Dodger fans in la can't cut the cord because they they had and that's why [TS]

  it's worth as much as it is is is because of that which you know but at [TS]

  some point I don't know what happens at some point cable goes down to the point [TS]

  where they're going to have to try to find another way to make money but one [TS]

  of the things about this [TS]

  the shift is happening with that that uh the the the class action settlement is [TS]

  in parallel there they're making deals with local cable companies so what's [TS]

  interesting about that is it means that if if you have a cable login so this is [TS]

  not record cutters but like I used to work in downtown San Francisco two [TS]

  blocks from the Giants ballpark and I pay for cable and and yet I couldn't sit [TS]

  in my office and watch the giants game that was happening because i was in the [TS]

  local market even though I could watch it at home or I could use like a [TS]

  slingbox to watch it and that's changing they made a deal with most but not all [TS]

  it's like 22 teams now where if you've got a cable login you can you can watch [TS]

  the game even even if it's a local game you can watch it and that that seems to [TS]

  be the next frontier for streaming is going to be everything is unlocked if [TS]

  you're paying for cable in some form [TS]

  yeah the weird thing one of the weird things that you don't see the [TS]

  commercials release not the standard and sometimes they sell other commercials [TS]

  but usually that in the space between innings just dead air and they're like [TS]

  you know in between innings or something like that you know stand by the game [TS]

  will come back and i had the idea years ago and in every time this has ever come [TS]

  up on the podcast people write in and they say why don't they just show the [TS]

  commercials if the way they make money is the ship sell commercials to show the [TS]

  same commercials to the people watching live but it's what you said which is [TS]

  that the cable companies see it as a reason to get cable [TS]

  it's more than just the commercials yeah they make they make their money on cable [TS]

  subscriptions not the commercials are bonuses just like you know you pay for a [TS]

  magazine subscription back in the day but it still had ads in the magazine [TS]

  it's that you get money from both both streams come in and that's how you find [TS]

  whatever you're doing and and so I do wonder if part of the deal of showing [TS]

  local channels in local to people who are local cable subscribers is that they [TS]

  have to set up like a feed where [TS]

  your shit you're seeing the local ads because they probably do want that's [TS]

  probably one of the sticking points of the deal right is they've they've [TS]

  guaranteed their advertisers this coverage and that you know so that might [TS]

  be that's a technical thing where you know you know the fox sports southwest [TS]

  task to feed the Diamondbacks games to MLB advanced media it's probably I mean [TS]

  they're doing it anyway but they probably feed a version with commercials [TS]

  tumors on his technical probably more than anything else but that's why this [TS]

  is all complicated for all this stuff is their contracts and there's big money [TS]

  and there's technical limitations and in Aztec people we think well we can we can [TS]

  solve this we can solve this technologically and then you realize oh [TS]

  it's not the attack is not the problem i can be advanced media is like one of the [TS]

  most advanced streaming media organizations in the world may be the [TS]

  most they do so much for other people that people don't know about their their [TS]

  streaming the HBO now service right they've done CBS sports stuff i think [TS]

  they do ESPN stuff i mean they are a very good at what they do [TS]

  technical is not the problem the problem is contracts that still exists and money [TS]

  where you know if cable company in la is gonna pay 30 billion dollars for 4 30 [TS]

  years or 20 years or whatever of of rights to the dodgers then it's kind of [TS]

  hard to walk away from that if you're you know if your major league baseball [TS]

  even if it does shutout cord-cutters because that's a lot of money and [TS]

  remember the two years ago when HBO tried to do their own thing with HBO Go [TS]

  it when the game of Thrones premiers come out it completely collapse and they [TS]

  were it they were literally reduced to asking people hey one anyway today they [TS]

  could think of it they got rid of the guy to I mean that's the most shocking [TS]

  thing is the story is that that their CTO was building this streaming [TS]

  infrastructure on the inside of HBO and he and they're like well yeah but we're [TS]

  talking to Major League Baseball we could use them so no we're gonna do it [TS]

  and then there was that one day where they like they announced they were going [TS]

  to go with major league baseball and that guy was leaving the company line [TS]

  and and then last year with when they had the MLB advanced media back [TS]

  streaming system that will [TS]

  this apparently seamless and mommy's gonna do I mean I guess it's never [TS]

  perfect for everybody but even cables not perfect for everybody [TS]

  the other weird thing on this well weird for me because I as a yankees fan but [TS]

  it's it's a lot of the preseason coverage is the fact that comcast still [TS]

  doesn't have they dropped the YES Network which is the Yankees [TS]

  entertainment and Sports Network right that carries like you like at least a [TS]

  hundred and fifty out of the hundred and sixty-two games a year there's like 12 [TS]

  that are on fox maybe a couple more than that because there's someone ESPN but a [TS]

  hundred and forty some games at least a year and comcast drop them in november [TS]

  and still hasn't picked him back up so if this at you know at least as of this [TS]

  recording friday marks 25th the Yankees aren't going to be on TV if you're in [TS]

  New York if you have cable [TS]

  oh so that's actually a very similar situation to what happened in LA for [TS]

  people who don't know like la Time Warner Cable has had this Dodgers deal [TS]

  and they have not been able to come to agreement with the other cable company [TS]

  or satellite providers that serve people in LA so there's a tiny percentage of [TS]

  people in la who are able to see the bulk of the Dodger games on TV and I [TS]

  think that's still not worked out all the way i read somewhere that that was [TS]

  going to be worked out but it's kind of awful but this is you know it's like I [TS]

  talked about this so I do every week i do a podcast with Tim Goodman from the [TS]

  hollywood reporter and we talked about this in the same thing a lot because [TS]

  it's transforming all entertainment all TV is is doing this and it's like a [TS]

  death spiral I mean they don't know where this is going there desperately [TS]

  paying money to try and hold on or or mitigate how far the fall is how fast it [TS]

  is i mean and so you end up in these situations where it makes no sense that [TS]

  the people of Los Angeles and New York can't see these baseball teams on their [TS]

  TV set and yet [TS]

  great this is where we are because they are because there are bigger issues like [TS]

  the entire future of their industry that they feel are at play [TS]

  yeah and I I it seems like it would only be fair if like Comcast doesn't have the [TS]

  Yankees in your comcast company customer that you should be able to get the MLB [TS]

  app wreckage you know but it doesn't work and now I think you're just blocked [TS]

  out which [TS]

  would that would drive me nuts i don't know i mean this guy I and it's like a [TS]

  lot of negotiations you know when there's out when there really is a hard [TS]

  deadline which is opening day which is a week away i mean i wouldn't be surprised [TS]

  if a deal gets hammered out in the next week but that it just seems you know I [TS]

  don't know yet it's like but like I said dominating the preseason talk about the [TS]

  Yankees because everybody's panic that I can be able to watch the games [TS]

  well and some of the problems with his ministers to business models like on the [TS]

  web and and everywhere else which is getting people to pay for a premium [TS]

  service is great but it's not the same as having everybody have it right you [TS]

  lose this whole layer of casual fans in the case of baseball who are going to [TS]

  flip on a game and watch it from time to time but they're not going to ever pay a [TS]

  hundred dollars a year to do that right and so and and that's why they don't [TS]

  that's why you know Time Warner Cable in la is not going to create a Dodger fan [TS]

  package for everybody who isn't a type of Time Warner Cable customer to pay [TS]

  them ten dollars or twenty dollars a month to watch the Dodgers because [TS]

  that's not their endgame they want they want to cut a deal with comcast or [TS]

  whoever who will pay them you know a few dollars off of the Bill of every single [TS]

  subscriber and then it goes everywhere it's like um I have a friend who's a a [TS]

  cricket fan and he's in canada and he's watching all these like indian cricket [TS]

  league matches and I I was like well that's interesting i can check that out [TS]

  you can't get in the US well you can but it's priced for the hardcore fan they've [TS]

  gone the other way where it's like you can't be a casual fan of that thing in [TS]

  America of cricket because there are there is a small group of people who [TS]

  love it and will pay like a hundred dollars to see one cricket tournament or [TS]

  whatever they call them and uh and and that's what they're going for and you [TS]

  baseball does want to do that they want to be [TS]

  these are mainstream sports they want to make the deal where they get a huge [TS]

  amount of money and it's available to everybody and it makes me wonder about [TS]

  the future of a broad appeal stuff if everything is ala carte because there's [TS]

  a lot of stuff that you're willing to watch if it's on but are you willing to [TS]

  pay for it [TS]

  that's very true alright let's because as good a time as any to take a break [TS]

  and thank our first sponsor [TS]

  it's our old friends at backblaze you guys know back place online backup for [TS]

  your mac it also works on a pc i haven't tried in RPC because I have don't have [TS]

  one but on the Mac this is what i would recommend even if they don't learn [TS]

  sponsoring the show if you said what should i do to backup my my computer i [TS]

  would tell you to have a system where you back up locally backup you know use [TS]

  time machine maybe use I use super duper make keep a clone of my startup drive [TS]

  but have something that is outside your office out of your house something off [TS]

  site just in case disaster strikes [TS]

  somebody breaks in steals your computer water damage like some leaks over your [TS]

  desk gets all over your computer ruins everything [TS]

  who knows anything like that could happen if you have an off-site backup [TS]

  you don't lose all of your data is this [TS]

  these guys are great they're former that the mac version is written by former [TS]

  Apple engineers it runs natively on your Mac you'll never notice it you have to [TS]

  put java on your computer anything like that it's just native mac OS 10 code [TS]

  you'll never even notice that it's running you just install it you get a [TS]

  free trial at backpage.com / daring fireball you can start with a free trial [TS]

  no credit card no risk [TS]

  just try and see how easy it is how seamless it is and then when you're [TS]

  ready to go [TS]

  it's an amazing deal it's just five bucks a month per computer and its [TS]

  unlimited there's no limit to how much data [TS]

  the only limit on the data is how long it takes for you to do your first backup [TS]

  before it goes incremental after that you don't pay more if you have a lot of [TS]

  data it's just five bucks per camper mac for unlimited backup [TS]

  I said it before I'll say it again someday I hope that these guys stop [TS]

  sponsoring the show because everybody who listens to the show is signed up for [TS]

  has got their family members been signed up for two and everything backed up to [TS]

  back plays and I'll just reiterate big you can restore one file at a time [TS]

  go to the website find the file you want get it if you want to get everything [TS]

  back you can order a USB hard drive [TS]

  they'll put everything onto a hard drive and fedex fedex it to you [TS]

  so whether you need everything or whether you just need one file back [TS]

  place works so go to backpage.com / daring fireball and [TS]

  and sign up now if you haven't I guess we should start with the with the event [TS]

  right we could start with the event then talk about the actual devices [TS]

  yeah I mean that seems like a good place to start that's everybody so many things [TS]

  i say everybody but so many complaints that it was uh this is a boring about [TS]

  why do they have an event i kinda more I think about it that I think an event [TS]

  like this week's is actually more interesting if you're like an apple nerd [TS]

  then the bigger ones because I feel like it's a little bit more revealing [TS]

  it's in you know for example just for example like jhaza segments like how do [TS]

  you introduce a phone that has no nothing new about it it's a yes it does [TS]

  well think about it though it's a design that we've seen before ok so rose gold [TS]

  is new but we have seen rose gold before I and all of the stuff that's in the [TS]

  phone that a9 processor the camera from the edge iphone 6s being able to do [TS]

  Apple pay with the touch ID sensor we've seen it all before so how do you how do [TS]

  you spend 10 or 15 minutes onstage talking about a phone that that all the [TS]

  everything I just said about is true and you guys on literally nothing nothing [TS]

  new about that product other than the mixture of it but you're right i the the [TS]

  broad mainstream wants to see something like totally new blowing you away from [TS]

  Apple every single time which is unrealistic but that's why you always [TS]

  get the disappointing event every every time every time there's an apple event [TS]

  people say it's disappointing because that's just unless it's the new iphone [TS]

  like the original iphone to the original iPad and it's just not going to be [TS]

  exciting but for us you're right you know it becomes about like how does [TS]

  Apple communicate something like the iphone SE and what is their positioning [TS]

  like why would you do that why would you do something because although there's no [TS]

  parts in it that are that are new [TS]

  it is a it is the first time they've ever done a product like this so it is [TS]

  new strategy wise and so right if we care about strategy then it's actually [TS]

  really interesting right and I feel like that's a little bit in a way it's more [TS]

  interesting for us as the you know like i always say criminal [TS]

  just parse out what they're doing with this whereas if they had something [TS]

  altogether knew that I get totally top secret thing to make the iphone only two [TS]

  millimeters thick like ridiculously thin it's really just like a piece of glass [TS]

  that looks like the phone from looper well that sells itself right it's like [TS]

  that's not hard to pitch because you've got this thing that's like oh my god [TS]

  just look at it I can't believe they made that whereas this is a lot more [TS]

  strategic and it is it's it is this like for example this is the first time [TS]

  they've made a third phone from a an industrial design right there was the [TS]

  iphone 5 than 25 s now the new one sec is used is the first time they've reused [TS]

  the design for the third time physical design [TS]

  yeah I mean I guess you could get you could argue the 5c is is close to the [TS]

  design of the others right it's just the back the back plate is kind of different [TS]

  but but yeah it's I guess it's a classic now I mean if you think about it the [TS]

  yeah before is that five is just an elongated for in a lot of ways so that's [TS]

  so that's a design that has been with us for a very long time and well but [TS]

  similar but not as similar as this where you could both you took the if you took [TS]

  the white 1i mean that space black is different because they changed the color [TS]

  with the 5 and 5s but i think if you took the white one with the regular [TS]

  aluminum back you would really have to get close to be able to tell a 55 s yeah [TS]

  there's a apart they're dead ringers I mean I brought a 5s with me to the event [TS]

  that exists but this would be like this i took some pictures and I mean they're [TS]

  dead ringers they they fit in the same cases the shame fur is Matt instead of [TS]

  shiny ok the like the printing on the back is different and the apple on the [TS]

  back is different cuz its I think screen printed in some way on the 5s and it's [TS]

  like a stainless steel cut out like like the modern phones right on the on the [TS]

  new one on the SE but otherwise I mean they are it's the same phone [TS]

  it's not a it's not a rethink of what that phone should be like it is the old [TS]

  design with new insides [TS]

  yeah I sort of i think in a sense it to me makes it the it's like the all-time [TS]

  best iphone design because it's the only one that got a third of their children [TS]

  yeah I think I think [TS]

  maybe you're right i have a soft spot for the original iphone design i was [TS]

  saying to somebody the other day that I feel like the original iphone is both my [TS]

  favorite design and also has some of the worst design elements in it of any [TS]

  iphone but um I i do i kinda like how how rounded the that original iphone is [TS]

  but but the five design is great and I like it a lot [TS]

  I said somebody on Twitter was asking for an iphone SE case that is as close [TS]

  as possible to the original iphone but you would have to be longer obviously [TS]

  because the screens longer but that was a good design to it was it was although [TS]

  i laughed and i got one here and I look at it every now and then a new iPhone [TS]

  comes out and it's like the some of it is really beautiful and then there's [TS]

  like the chrome because it's got like that soft brought like the brushed [TS]

  aluminum back about the friends got the shiny chrome frame and I'm like wow [TS]

  that's not I mean that they would not have ever done that after the fact it [TS]

  was but that was what they did you can see they're just getting their feet wet [TS]

  they were learning at that point I feel like they've come so far in terms of how [TS]

  they fit pieces together in that in across all of their devices really like [TS]

  if you look back and think to like the the titanium powerbook which was sort of [TS]

  the forbearer of all modern power books and macbooks I mean in it means eve even [TS]

  made of a different material they didn't get to aluminum added and there are a [TS]

  lot of problems with titanium with the flaking off of the coding and but the [TS]

  big difference to me was that they were little plastic pieces across all of the [TS]

  scenes like they couldn't just make a corner out of titanium it it all needed [TS]

  to be sealed up with a plastic corner in the original iphone sort of like that to [TS]

  where they needed like a like a pc like literally it was like a piece of chrome [TS]

  around the delay between the display in the aluminum and I'd like the black [TS]

  cutout at the at the bottom that was like I mean it was just that was had [TS]

  what they needed to do to assemble the thing and then and then the next [TS]

  generation phones were the well what if we just have a big polycarbonate back [TS]

  and and then with four was like alright we figured out how to do this and [TS]

  everything comes from that just like you're right the titanium powerbook [TS]

  every macbook has looked like that since then I mean within yeah and they've all [TS]

  essentially you can tell they're all of a kind [TS]

  that was the moment where they went from being like black and brown plastic 22 [TS]

  being that that silver laptop that we know now right I mean just in little [TS]

  ways i mean if you compare it for going to go down memory lane and compared to [TS]

  the original iphone you can just see how the whole industry not just apple has [TS]

  come so far and 15 years or so of like Wireless where wireless stuff you should [TS]

  always have like an actual antenna [TS]

  yeah no I mean like I remember seeing like a palm treo you'd be like an actual [TS]

  antenna up in the upper right Clyde one of those yeah absolutely did and [TS]

  everybody just accepted it because it was amazing you know I'm talking on the [TS]

  phone and I'm not connected to any wires of course there's got to be an antenna [TS]

  and then you know to go to come so far were like in 2007 we complained about [TS]

  the black plastic on the back of the iphone because it would need to be [TS]

  plastic to get the antenna signals through and it's quite complained about [TS]

  that just because this didn't look great [TS]

  yeah it's well it's it's kinda hard to think that it's been less than 10 years [TS]

  and I at the whole industry i mean this has been talking about a lot it's not [TS]

  just how much better people have gotten that phones which is absolutely true [TS]

  everybody has gotten better at phones but the the drive to make smartphones in [TS]

  the miniaturization of of all this attack has led to all of these other [TS]

  spin-off devices because once you build these tiny computers that you could do [TS]

  all sorts of other stuff with them too and it's less than 10 years thats i was [TS]

  on some podcast where I said that I thought that in the end this the [TS]

  smartphone the computer era would be seen as a footnote to the smartphone era [TS]

  that was like remember when we first made computers you couldn't put them in [TS]

  your pocket as opposed to how we think of it now which is oh now you can put a [TS]

  computer in your pocket like I don't think in in terms of history that's how [TS]

  we're going to think about it it's like it's already in less than 10 years [TS]

  change so much about how people interact all around the world that you know that [TS]

  that's end and has driven so much new technology [TS]

  yeah totally all right back to the event so here's a question [TS]

  let's go through i have my notes now I haven't let's go through in order so [TS]

  hooked em cook comes out and starts with the weather is the 42nd 40 years and 40 [TS]

  seconds thing which was delightful included a Newton joke people forget [TS]

  that I mean our people don't know that that crossing out the Newton wasn't just [TS]

  malicious that was the that was the actual pin stroke you use to erase a [TS]

  word i didn't notice that they actually went to that detail I did not notice [TS]

  that [TS]

  oh yeah it's the is that little up and down zigzag across the word and then [TS]

  what they didn't they didn't have time to have the little puff of smoke right [TS]

  but that's I mean that was the Newton gesture for that that was right in my [TS]

  room deep knowledge by whoever made that video with a little bit love ya and then [TS]

  he came out any addressed the as we say the elephant in the room which was that [TS]

  the time on monday apples pending court case against the FBI the next day and I [TS]

  thought he spoke very well on it and that you'd spoken while on it ever since [TS]

  this this issue started in early februari but I feel like he's he's [TS]

  gotten it down to a much more compelling argument and he's 6 for example like [TS]

  earlier like a few weeks ago he was comparing the creation of government [TS]

  os/2 he analogize it to cancer and I think I know where he was going with [TS]

  that but he's dropped that analogy and I think it's for the best yet he did [TS]

  because it doesn't hold up as well and the main reason i think is because [TS]

  cancer isn't man-made it's you know it's a this I mean there's man-made causes [TS]

  that you can lead you to get it but it's you know the fact that it exists is on [TS]

  an unfortunate aspect of nature and our biology right I i think it's if you're [TS]

  going to go that route it's a little bit more like asking a company to make you [TS]

  know requiring a company to manufacture chemical weapons but that's an analogy [TS]

  that I don't think he wants to use I think it's a better analogy but i don't [TS]

  think you want to use it because it's it's too unpleasant i thought that the [TS]

  thing that he said that really was the way that I think that this should go is [TS]

  when he said that we see are we even see our phones as an extension of ourselves [TS]

  and that to me is the [TS]

  that's the angle though that the disk i know that the case this particular case [TS]

  has been dropped the issue is definitely not going to go away and I feel like [TS]

  that's the angle to go toward in terms of yes we are actually building warrant [TS]

  resistance phones [TS]

  yeah you you diddle you have a post a link that i thought was really great [TS]

  that was calling somebody on this argument like do we dare create a [TS]

  warrant proof space [TS]

  do we dare do that place where warrants can't reach and the point the point that [TS]

  you link to that somebody said was are our minds are or improve place the [TS]

  concept of a place that is and historically there have been other [TS]

  places that are essentially war improved but certainly are our minds are ours and [TS]

  I the the information in them is not subject to a warrant and I think that I [TS]

  i thought the same thing when he said that this is this is the one of the key [TS]

  part parts of apples argument is our phones are extensions of ourselves there [TS]

  are there are not even back up brains they're part of our brains they are [TS]

  where we keep information so we don't have to store it in our brains it makes [TS]

  life better that way [TS]

  this is how people live in the 21st century and therefore protecting that is [TS]

  an extension of the protection that we've got essentially against [TS]

  self-incrimination this is part of our this part of our mind and if if the math [TS]

  means that the technology exists to lock something up and nobody can get to it [TS]

  then we perhaps were all best off considering it that considering that the [TS]

  extension of a warrant proof space that already exists on our mind so I [TS]

  definitely you know he didn't go into it beyond just saying it's an extension of [TS]

  ourselves but you know you you and I had the same thought which is that you read [TS]

  between the lines there and that is what Apple is saying is you can't pry it out [TS]

  of our head and my phone is part of my head it is it is it is who I am and if I [TS]

  can make it so that you can't see what's in there then that's ok that's part of [TS]

  that's part of the deal [TS]

  yeah and then [TS]

  the FBI called nevermind nevermind what you saw those that the legal analysis [TS]

  again we're not lawyers but you have a legal analysis uh over the weekend in [TS]

  the past week which is sort of like this isn't looking good for the FBI letter [TS]

  there's so many reasons that this that this is that Apple seems to have the [TS]

  advantage here and the tide seem to turn I think even publicly the I think the [TS]

  FBI thought this was a slam dunk you know I think they thought that they were [TS]

  going to be able to do this Apple was gonna roll over and the people are going [TS]

  to be on their side because they're talking about terrorism and protecting a [TS]

  terrorist phone and all of these things and then the tide starts to turn their [TS]

  legal footing is is kind of not as solid as they thought it would be and then so [TS]

  all of a sudden they say well we found another way so nevermind which even that [TS]

  excuse is terrible because they basically said no no there is no other [TS]

  way we've searched everywhere and everybody went really [TS]

  and then there's like nevermind it's hard not to look at that and say that [TS]

  the political calculation either they made it that this wasn't a good time to [TS]

  do this or somebody else in the executive branch was like yeah don't [TS]

  don't just cut just don't write or or go talk to the NSA or whatever whatever it [TS]

  was that something happened figure out as graceful away as possible to get out [TS]

  of this even if it's actually not graceful at all [TS]

  yeah yeah and i think that it it backfired on the FBI in two ways is I [TS]

  kind of I kind of get the feeling that they may be never thought that this [TS]

  would go to actual trial but they thought it would be the other way that [TS]

  the plan that public opinion would talk would go against apple so overwhelmingly [TS]

  that ok Apple thinks they want to fight this but will you no will turn up the [TS]

  temperature on the Terrorism dial and they'll still find out otherwise and [TS]

  that didn't happen like in and it certainly is not the case that the [TS]

  public was overwhelmingly in Apple's favor now but it was close to 50 50 and [TS]

  from the polls that I did see you know it seemed like it was slowly moving in [TS]

  Apple's favor it certainly wasn't backfiring on apple and i think that the [TS]

  FBI wasn't prepared for that and then the FBI looked at the what their legal [TS]

  arguments where I'm really [TS]

  shit if we do this we go to trial this does not look good so what I any other [TS]

  thing that they did that was sort of like just dancing around and you know [TS]

  changing their mind it was like three or four like friday or thursday or friday [TS]

  but three or four days before it was supposed to go to trial they changed [TS]

  that they said we would like this to be an evidentiary hearing where we call [TS]

  witnesses which you know it's not like that's unusual in and of itself but it's [TS]

  unusual to do you know requested at the last minute and I have my theory and [TS]

  again i'm just making this up i don't have any information to back it up but [TS]

  my guess is that they they looked at the legal arguments that we're kind of [TS]

  screwed [TS]

  maybe if we call some witnesses we can make this a little bit less about the [TS]

  facts in a little bit more like an emotional appeal you know got appeal to [TS]

  you know we're trying to fight terrorism here and then I think they realized over [TS]

  the weekend that really you know when they thought about it that really wasn't [TS]

  gonna work either [TS]

  yeah i think it is a combination of the law on the optics that happen to them [TS]

  the objects you're exactly right i think they expected that the people would be [TS]

  mixed on this and then when they heard about the details of Apple withholding [TS]

  information from a terrorist that the public would swing to their side and it [TS]

  didn't do that it was the reverse of that people learn more about this issue [TS]

  and started to understand why Apple was fighting it so i think they've [TS]

  miscalculated and then yeah they Apple brings in Ted Olson I mean Apple like [TS]

  lawyer dup to to fight this as far as possible and you know I I think you put [TS]

  those two together and and there's a and and they always had to have the [TS]

  knowledge that there was even if they didn't know there were zero day exploits [TS]

  that they could probably use in i'm sure they i'm sure they knew that they could [TS]

  find one if they wanted it was like in her back pocket a little bit and so that [TS]

  was the the escape hatches 00 we think let's put this on hold because not [TS]

  dismissed it's just on hold for now but I I yeah it seems like it's seems like [TS]

  though I any at one thing i noticed in its it really I don't you can overstate [TS]

  how much Apple is truly standing on principle here [TS]

  it and that it's you know whether you think it's good marketing or not and I [TS]

  think that Apple really bristled at that accusation from the FBI that they were [TS]

  doing this for marketing purposes because so it whether it helps them in [TS]

  marketing or not is beside the point they truly at and obviously i think from [TS]

  you know starting at the very top with tim cook right on down really see it as [TS]

  a matter of principle and and the reason it's a little unusual to see a company [TS]

  do something like that is that you could see it in the polling that that their [TS]

  negatives as they say in politics have gone way up like it was like before this [TS]

  like the last time the same polling group had it was like you know how many [TS]

  people have an unfavorable opinion of apple and it was like eight percent [TS]

  that's probably just a bunch of parrots like that people who hate the mac i hate [TS]

  right it's the people who get into Mac versus PC flame war zone on the internet [TS]

  but like as a like last week it was up to like twenty one percent or something [TS]

  like that so like the number of people united states with an unfavorable [TS]

  opinion of Apple like more than doubled almost tripled just because of this [TS]

  issue just because of the very you know and and thinking about it and very broad [TS]

  terms apple is spitefully not helping the FBI unlock phone that belongs to [TS]

  terrorists and that's just like this that's the sort of PR that companies you [TS]

  know for good reason [TS]

  don't want yeah that's the worst the worst PR right you the easiest thing to [TS]

  do is go along like that like all the phone companies did and like a lot of [TS]

  tech companies have done which is just go along keep it quiet [TS]

  don't talk about the tap that you put in for the government don't talk about this [TS]

  look you know this work you do or this loophole that you've got and that [TS]

  certainly the best right because then it's like nobody talks about it you you [TS]

  risk having something like what happened with AT&T and blow up where it's [TS]

  revealed that there's this warrantless wiretapping going on in your telecom [TS]

  center you doing there are risks there but but still yeah apples putting itself [TS]

  out there and they know they're going to get portrayed by the United States [TS]

  government of all places the law-and-order wing of the United States [TS]

  government as being on the side of terrorism essentially mean there's a [TS]

  senator who [TS]

  good in the Senate and declared that Apple was on the side of Isis right i [TS]

  mean this is bad PR but i do think i do think that they had their principal than [TS]

  it will talk about this whole section of the of the keynote or the media then not [TS]

  just tim cook but when we went on to talk about the health stuff and about [TS]

  the environment stuff to you know it is a PR calculation it's a media event it [TS]

  is always going to be a PR calculation but i do believe that it's also a [TS]

  cultural thing an apple that they did I don't believe they just do this for good [TS]

  PR this is part of who they are and the philosophy they have about about their [TS]

  products and how they're used [TS]

  yeah i think that the environment thing is a perfect example of that because [TS]

  however many people care about it i really think that the number of iphones [TS]

  and ipads that they sell because Apple has a good stance toward the environment [TS]

  is like you know you could one person could carry them upstairs yeah no I mean [TS]

  it's not there are not very many people who are making their decision on what to [TS]

  buy based on the environmental policies of the company [TS]

  it's you know it did I think Lisa Jackson even said it that you can feel [TS]

  good about Apple's environment at its it's a way to make you feel good about [TS]

  it but it's not it's not going to sell it and it you can't help but think that [TS]

  it's costing them a significant amount of money [TS]

  yeah yeah I think I think so but they've been is one of those funny cases where I [TS]

  feel like they turn the corner to that they got rebuked by Greenpeace like 10 [TS]

  years ago and and within a year or two they started putting up that's that [TS]

  slide that is on every product launch now which is the green checklist right [TS]

  which you know they don't have to do that they really don't have to do it now [TS]

  when they always just check all the boxes but they'd they they have done a [TS]

  lot to make their products more recyclable and less less toxic and now [TS]

  they're doing things where they're you know they're buying electricity it's not [TS]

  all like it's not as if like they've got solar panels on other buildings and all [TS]

  the buildings there is some of it is like there's a huge solar farm in [TS]

  central California that they basically bought and said we want all the power [TS]

  from this but they they want to they want to say that they want to talk about [TS]

  that and [TS]

  that is you know I again I think it's good PR because it is we care but I also [TS]

  think that they do actually care [TS]

  yeah and the other thing worth noting i mean it's dated but Lisa Jackson being [TS]

  onstage is noteworthy because a she's never been on stage at an event before [TS]

  and be you know in the last few years there's been a growing awareness that [TS]

  most of the people [TS]

  Apple puts up on stage are white men yep and anything anybody who's you know can [TS]

  broaden the diversity of the people who are on stage it's a good thing in [TS]

  multiple ways but it's a you know I brought up with his shoulder when he was [TS]

  on the show at WWDC and and he made the point which is exactly what i suspected [TS]

  is true is that it [TS]

  it's not like they pick people to do you know like here's who's going to do this [TS]

  its people who are responsible for the thing that they're pitching who do it [TS]

  right like so when Josh comes up to do the iphone SE it josh is it not just a [TS]

  person who does you know who does product marketing he's product marketing [TS]

  for iphone yeah and so the fact that Lisa Jackson was onstage she wasn't [TS]

  going to come out onstage to talk about the iphone SE it's because she's [TS]

  literally in charge of apples it [TS]

  environmental policy yeah I think I do think they're they're definitely making [TS]

  an attempt I it is it seems to me that they're asking the question like how can [TS]

  we how can we better you know reflect diversity on stage and in videos and all [TS]

  those things and there they are not close to being sort of what you see from [TS]

  a google event or even microsoft event but there you can see that they're [TS]

  working on getting better i noticed not just Lisa Jackson but in the videos [TS]

  there were there were two videos featuring apple employees and one of [TS]

  them a video is narrated by an apple product manager who is asian and there [TS]

  was one that was that featured one health videos featured and [TS]

  a an apple employee who is an Indian woman and so I i did notice like the [TS]

  people in the people it not and not just like the kids in the health study and [TS]

  all that but that like the representatives of apple in those videos [TS]

  were people we haven't seen before voices we hadn't heard before and who do [TS]

  show some more of the diversity that is in existence and apple and you know what [TS]

  i read that is that they're making an effort and it's not like I mean it's not [TS]

  like there's an incredibly diverse group on stage and that Apple's totally turned [TS]

  the corner I guess what I would say is that a I think there are aware of the [TS]

  perception of it and are trying to take some steps but you know they got they [TS]

  got more work to do but it was a it was good to see new new people from apple on [TS]

  stage this is it's not just about Apple's diversity it's also like Apple [TS]

  used to be the least diverse company in the world because there was literally [TS]

  like a guy who did almost everything publicly right Steve Jobs wanted to be [TS]

  the face of everything Apple did and you're saying they were at least diverse [TS]

  in terms of their public trims the public persona because it was one guy [TS]

  was teaching hubs was apple right and i think he cultivated that and he he was [TS]

  he was good at it so why not do it and I feel like apples corporate culture is [TS]

  still continues to unwind with katie cotton leaving and Steve Downie taking [TS]

  over for NPR I I feel like they're still there still unwinding out to be like [TS]

  lots of people are our work at Apple and let's get those voices on stage and it [TS]

  was it started with sort of a small group of people who we already knew who [TS]

  would pop up during Steve Jobs keynotes and now it keeps widening and I i [TS]

  expected to keep doing that but it's kind of funny that you know I I really [TS]

  think they have they they are trying to change but they have to change from a [TS]

  model where like nobody gets on stage except steve and maybe a couple of [TS]

  lieutenants and they don't I think they I think they know they need to not do [TS]

  that anymore [TS]

  yeah and I don't think they're ever going to go the route of Google who like [TS]

  a google i/o keynote there might be 20 people who come on stage I maybe I'm [TS]

  exaggerating a little but it's it's a lot it's a lot of people coming out for [TS]

  brief you know [TS]

  almost like individual features you know here's somebody else to do this on an [TS]

  apple style of presentation is isn't going to change because i think that [TS]

  they you know [TS]

  yeah i think it works you know and i think they believe it works there's a [TS]

  certain style to an apple show you know and it's it's fewer speakers coming out [TS]

  for longer segments you know and then maybe somebody you know like a WC [TS]

  there's a couple of things will have somebody come out to do the demo right [TS]

  and then there's you know but it's just it's inherently a little different [TS]

  the one thing with the Lisa Jackson thing I didn't comment on it i am i [TS]

  right up on my thoughts and observations but one of the things that a couple of [TS]

  readers called me on and i have to say correctly so is it's a little [TS]

  disingenuous to write what I call her her segment on is the that they pitched [TS]

  it as sort of like Apple is helping to save the climate and I think that's a [TS]

  little it's a little self-centered because I don't really think apples [TS]

  footprint as big as a company that they are is single-handedly really going to [TS]

  move the dial on the overall climate at the planet i think that they should [TS]

  pitch it more i really do because i think that i think this is working help [TS]

  is pitch it more as we're setting an example that we want all of our other [TS]

  fellow companies in the fortune 500 to follow [TS]

  we're showing that it's possible to be a hundred percent renewable why is why [TS]

  aren't other companies doing the same and i still believe that but the other [TS]

  thing i didn't mention and I didn't think about it was that they they're [TS]

  they're very carefully omitting their supply chains come from their [TS]

  measurements right and I don't know it would be interesting I mean I'll because [TS]

  that's one thing like Tim Cook is a numbers guy so I bet that he you know [TS]

  has those numbers coming from Lisa Jackson's team which is what's the [TS]

  what's the environmental footprint of of our supply chain when I would be [TS]

  interested to know how big that is compared to the rest of apples [TS]

  operations one of the interesting things on and I've seen Ben Thompson right [TS]

  about this its protector a little bit [TS]

  and my room as mom who is a science fiction writer but he also writes about [TS]

  the future of renewable energies he's written about it a lot that china is [TS]

  really changing it to the point where China's path to renewable energy from [TS]

  coal basically is its rapid it's happening rapid rapidly because um [TS]

  actually because their pollution is horrible but I it's interesting i wonder [TS]

  if there's a there's something behind the scenes where they talk to their [TS]

  supply chain and and are leaning on them to do this because I i think there's [TS]

  opportunity in the grid in China knowing nothing about about the details of [TS]

  Chinese energy systems but that the country as a whole is adding huge [TS]

  amounts of renewables and it's going to keep doing that for a long time to come [TS]

  so I i do wonder if that's happening in the background to that maybe there's [TS]

  even a thought like look at these guys are all going to be switching to you [TS]

  know or investing in you know solar in China and well there are advantages to [TS]

  running an authoritarian hand government I mean right and you know you can make [TS]

  the trains run on time a little easier [TS]

  yeah well I I just don't know how to handle the grid and whether you can't [TS]

  you can say like we're gonna buy power here and we want the credit for that [TS]

  being our power the the that wind farm that you built let's say that that's the [TS]

  horn high wind farm and and that's that I mean that's the truth of a grid in [TS]

  general is that you're essentially buying offsets I mean when Apple when [TS]

  Apple puts the know that that solar farm that south of monterey to work [TS]

  it's not like there's an apple campus right there that's wired to it goes [TS]

  right or a big cable one big one big to our court like the john fogerty video [TS]

  yeah just plug it in and then you got it no it goes into the grid and and then [TS]

  the electrons are in the grid and then they take but they get the credit for [TS]

  that generation so you know electricity is weird but they're there they're [TS]

  trying and i would imagine that that that the supply chain is probably going [TS]

  to get better just because I get the impression that the energy mix in China [TS]

  is going to get better but you know who knows you're you're you're right i'm [TS]

  sure tim cook knows well they're conspicuously avoided mentioning it [TS]

  and you know I don't know I don't really blame them i think if you know if I was [TS]

  on their team i probably would have said yeah we don't know this is not mention [TS]

  it yeah i think i think you're right though Apple wants to be a I think it [TS]

  would be great of Apple was just more an example of like look this is how a big [TS]

  company can do this and if you want to be a big company that can say look we're [TS]

  standing up and we're going to be under percent renewables by this date you can [TS]

  do it because Apple did it and he and even say like here's what it costs us [TS]

  and it's realistic about how much it costs so that it you know because that's [TS]

  one of the arguments always like well we don't know it's a mystery and apple [TS]

  could say no we know and you can follow our lead this is how much it will cost [TS]

  you to do this you know [TS]

  so then the last part of the Lisa Jackson's part of the show was the [TS]

  introduction of Liam the iphone deconstructing robot which was kind of a [TS]

  surprise i mean because apple doesn't really show you a bunch behind the you [TS]

  know behind the stage ever right and it's sort of an interestingly my and i [TS]

  wrote about it like my thing is I can't help but wonder if they're same people [TS]

  working on Liam the deconstructing robot are also working on a sibling robot who [TS]

  puts phones together because I before we ever got a look at the you know an apple [TS]

  started publishing photos of you know like the inside of the foxconn factories [TS]

  are assembly lines i guess it's a better way to put it you know like when Tim [TS]

  Cook started going there and there were photo ops and you could see it it it a I [TS]

  shouldn't have been surprised but like my gut feeling was that I thought it [TS]

  would be a lot more automated and because there are things you know like [TS]

  like when you see like a car factory and auto auto factory a lot of it is [TS]

  roboticized whereas putting these electronics together is largely a rat [TS]

  least today is largely a baby manual job [TS]

  yeah I wonder and I don't know whether that's something that does Apple do that [TS]

  or just Apple talk to their manufacturers about doing that is Apple [TS]

  Reno work with them and and say we want to reinvent how this you know how this [TS]

  goes on so that the people working in the factories or supervising the robots [TS]

  rather than doing all the work themselves on that would certainly [TS]

  reduce the number of people working in the factories which is certainly [TS]

  the auto industry in the United States had problems right because you lost a [TS]

  lot of jobs that way but I don't know it's it would be it's fascinating to me [TS]

  because this is like this is a people think people talked about the problems [TS]

  of recycling electronics for a long time but I felt like there was never a [TS]

  drumbeat on it like there was about some other stuff but this is definitely you [TS]

  know the the seems to be almost in the same class as some of the other tech [TS]

  that we know exists back in the back of the apple store where it's like it's in [TS]

  Apple's benefit to have a recycling program and they refurbished phones and [TS]

  they can disassemble the parts and reuse them and how much of this is about being [TS]

  friendly to the earth and how much of this is about like it good business [TS]

  sense to why don't we why don't we reclaim all of these things and and put [TS]

  them back to use I don't know it would be an interesting who builds that who [TS]

  builds Liam do you get a job as a an engineer at apple and then discover that [TS]

  rather than building like the new iphone you're building a device to take apart [TS]

  iPhone fives [TS]

  yeah maybe I guess so i can't help but think that it was that it to apple [TS]

  design machine [TS]

  yeah well they said it's in California so yeah I i assume so [TS]

  yeah pretty cool stuff and then they gave mashable like a nice [TS]

  behind-the-scenes look at it which is another sign of the modern yeah [TS]

  new apple i also before I guess before we move on the other thing too and to [TS]

  Tim Cook even I guess you mentioned it at the end but that it's you know if [TS]

  everything goes according to schedule this will be that will be that was the [TS]

  last event they're going to hold on campus right on on that on that campus [TS]

  on that campus right I and a couple of people and I guess it's just I i [TS]

  overlooked how some of the things that I find obvious but other people don't but [TS]

  a couple of readers were like he just say that they're not gonna release [TS]

  anything new this year and the answer's no no that's not the point its that the [TS]

  schedule that Apple has been on the pattern that they've kind of centered on [TS]

  is really sort of a three public event year schedule something in March which [TS]

  is what we just had [TS]

  a varying you know important depending on whether they have something majorly [TS]

  new to announce it or not [TS]

  WWDC in middle of June which is probably mostly software-based but maybe that's [TS]

  what the hold the new macbooks for I don't know I don't know the release [TS]

  these new macbooks like with a press release between now and $YEAR WGC or [TS]

  hold them until WWDC but that's my guess is that the whole bunch of us will get a [TS]

  call saying would you like to do that for a briefing and they'll say we have [TS]

  new macbooks and here's the burrito and the press release will go out and that [TS]

  would be like at the end of april or something like that [TS]

  yeah and then in September there will certainly be a major event but they [TS]

  don't it's because it's a major event they're not gonna hold it in their tiny [TS]

  little town hall they're going to hold it like last year at the bill graham [TS]

  auditory night or the front center of the year before that or you know you [TS]

  were your bueno or Moscow knee West sometimes but they'll find a big venue [TS]

  somewhere for that you don't think they've ever done moscone west other [TS]

  than for macworld or WTF is happening not i think they did I think I'm sure [TS]

  somebody out there screaming at their car right now that they did my memory is [TS]

  that they have done a single freestanding Moscow knee West event but [TS]

  it's probably that is booked up i think it maybe it was just luck that there was [TS]

  some week where it wasn't booked where they could just drop in and do it but [TS]

  and they also can't just do it for a day right because we know Apple they they [TS]

  have days of prep to get a space exactly the way they want it so that they can't [TS]

  just rent it for a day right i think i have my gut feeling is that were that [TS]

  your buena is a thing of the past again because its size [TS]

  yeah there if there were 50 it's not that much bigger than town hall [TS]

  yeah it's and it's and it's a lot of custom prep work to get the hands-on [TS]

  area they built that only they built a whole new hands on thing the last time [TS]

  anywhere between the last time they did here between that they actually cut a [TS]

  hole in the wall because they actually took a wall out I remember asking that's [TS]

  Apple yeah well I built they build buildings essentially at at bill graham [TS]

  and at the flint center [TS]

  I think Katie cotton was still there at the time and I and I spoke to somebody [TS]

  there like it towards the end like as they were getting ready to kick us out [TS]

  of the hands on [TS]

  area and I was like this like insanely expensive because you guys have to like [TS]

  rebuild the wall and she's like yeah we don't care [TS]

  yeah that's right let me take another break here before we move on into the [TS]

  next segment of apple's event and thank our good friends another longtime [TS]

  sponsor the show you guys know them [TS]

  Squarespace Squarespace is it's the all in one place to host design customise [TS]

  and build your own website any kind of website almost any website you can even [TS]

  imagine that you might want to start you really ought to look at Squarespace [TS]

  first go to squarespace com and the a he just cannot emphasize enough you have [TS]

  stuff like podcast you can host a podcast Squarespace they even have like [TS]

  a custom audio player they they know what podcast is that can help you with [TS]

  that you can close the blog you have a store you can you can build your own [TS]

  store there and they have all of the shopping stuff all the ssl stuff all the [TS]

  credit card taking stuff all of it is built in and you just do it when you're [TS]

  customizing it I it is like using a design app it is not like sitting there [TS]

  and doing code or you know moving little snippets of code around although you can [TS]

  get into the code if you want to but you literally just drag stuff around and [TS]

  it's exactly how web design should be you just sit there and you're you're [TS]

  actually manipulating the actual website itself that you're logged into it's not [TS]

  like there's an editing interface and a regular face when you're signed in and [TS]

  you it's your Squarespace account you just sit there and you manipulated in [TS]

  true what you see is what you get style because it's actually what you're moving [TS]

  is the actual website really just can't emphasize enough how easy that is so my [TS]

  thanks to squarespace go to squarespace.com and use the code Gruber [TS]

  my last name Gruber and you will save ten percent off your first order [TS]

  squarespace.com offer code grouper so use that code and mules they'll know you [TS]

  came from from the show my thanks to squarespace if you have any kind of [TS]

  website that you may want [TS]

  to build go there first and try it and you'll probably not even move on to [TS]

  anything else [TS]

  my thanks to squarespace so then Jeff Williams comes out and like I was [TS]

  sitting next to Matthew pensare know in any audience and when jeff williams was [TS]

  done and he was like let me hand this off you know handed back to Tim I was [TS]

  like Isis whispered to Matthew I was like let me hand things off to my [TS]

  brother [TS]

  it's uncanny how similar jeff williams and timken onstage demeanor is it [TS]

  I can't believe more people don't don't comment on it [TS]

  yeah they they seem similar there there [TS]

  tim is more polished but teams had more time to be more polished yeah but Jeff [TS]

  Williams is sort of like where where Tim Cook was when Tim was the coo for steve [TS]

  jobs and would occasionally come out onstage to talk about like how well the [TS]

  mac is doing or something like that [TS]

  yeah you know one of the things we did so you know going into the town hall [TS]

  event I had that realization like friday that it's probably the last one and I [TS]

  went to Stephen Hackett and I said you would you be interested in working with [TS]

  me on a piece like looking back at town hall and we and we had a bit he he [TS]

  replied with a list of youtube videos of every town hall event since 2001 that [TS]

  Stephen Hackett in a nutshell that's crazy and I was looking at him and it [TS]

  was a fun story to put together we sort of split the work i've been to all of [TS]

  them so I'd like little tidbits like when they took us upstairs to the dorm [TS]

  room the dorm room for the ipod hifi and I wasn't there for the Ono that was so [TS]

  that was that was so weird and there were some others like that or I remember [TS]

  and the original ipod event i remember going to that but what one of the funny [TS]

  things is that the xserve event which was in may 2002 has like super early Tim [TS]

  Cook and it's interesting to see how far we've come since early tim cook it was [TS]

  explaining the sales strategy of the xserve he's come a long way in the in [TS]

  the intervening 14 years [TS]

  yeah it's really it's it's it that the comparison to jeff williams interesting [TS]

  cause a there it's just funny to me how similar they are how much it would be so [TS]

  easily to believe that they were brothers [TS]

  but it's also an interesting contrast in terms like you said like how much more [TS]

  polished Tim Cook has gotten out how really good he's gotten on stage I think [TS]

  he's I think he's relaxed a little bit i think he realizes he doesn't need to be [TS]

  steve jobs right which is like and I don't mean that in a row you gotta fill [TS]

  his shoes but more like Steve set the template like you said at these apple [TS]

  events Apple knows what it's doing [TS]

  I wrote a piece of macro couple weeks but go about how everybody doesn't apple [TS]

  event like Apple defined this corporate tech media event thing but its use the [TS]

  template then then even if Steve's gone there is a moment where you struggle of [TS]

  like how do i how do i do this was my way of doing it instead of sort of just [TS]

  reading Steve's lines for him and I feel like Tim Cook has gotten there now where [TS]

  it's it's it's an apple event and it's always going to be have the echoes of [TS]

  the Steve Jobs events but he just seems more comfortable in his own skin on [TS]

  stage he smiles a lot more that's the thing I kept taking pictures because I i [TS]

  do that [TS]

  do that [TS]

  these apple events and you know he used to be kind of serious and he would [TS]

  occasionally have like a super awkward grin that he would be like smile for the [TS]

  camera and he just seems to mean whether he's not like he could be completely [TS]

  torn up inside and terrified for all I know but on stage he's projecting what [TS]

  seems like completely legitimate happiness about being up there and so I [TS]

  I do feel like he's kind of completely embraced his role now and knows what he [TS]

  knows who he is on stage and what his public persona is and has has come to [TS]

  terms with it because he yeah I think he's coming he's never he's going to be [TS]

  Tim Cook he's never going to be anything but that but he just feel like he's [TS]

  genuinely tim cook now [TS]

  yeah and i feel that i couldn't say it better myself and I think that that's it [TS]

  it doesn't matter how naturally talented you are at anything you kind of have to [TS]

  do it for a little before you settle into it [TS]

  sure right it's like you know III I knew how to write when I started daring [TS]

  fireball but if you read the first few entries you know first year or two of [TS]

  daring fireball there's a certain tone that's not it's not poorly written but [TS]

  it's not it it's not right you know or when you look at the first few years of [TS]

  like any of your favorite comic strips like peanuts or even calvin and hobbes [TS]

  it's like they're not the characters aren't quite drawn right yeah okay sure [TS]

  they're off off model i remember when i was a kid reading the Garfield books and [TS]

  you start with behind your like what the hell is this this is not car filled it [TS]

  looks like a parody of cardiac something that's a bit it and then it settles in [TS]

  you know and then the natural you know it and I feel like you know Tim Cook's [TS]

  onstage persona is exactly like that and he has settled in like saying that he's [TS]

  more comfortable is just more himself is exactly it and I used to say bye before [TS]

  when Steve Jobs was still around but you know when it you know for obvious [TS]

  reasons it was people worse we were all speculate about what would happen [TS]

  post steve jobs and I used to say I guess it's still true in theory that [TS]

  it's not necessarily it doesn't have to be the case that the CEO of Apple is the [TS]

  the spokesman right company and that you know Tim could just be the CEO and phil [TS]

  schiller could run the event [TS]

  and in a way i was i think i was right in a way I was wrong [TS]

  where I was right and so far as that Tim cooked almost never cells cells the new [TS]

  products he always hands off to somebody to actually pitched the products which [TS]

  is obviously the what you know Steve Jobs just did it all himself but I do [TS]

  kind of feel like it's important that he's sort of the host of the show there [TS]

  is a certain look that the buck stops here right this is mine this is my [TS]

  company [TS]

  this is why we're doing what we're doing I i thought there would be less of him [TS]

  honestly I thought he would do that thing where you come up with the [TS]

  beginning and give the you know retail up Dave cohorts that they have even [TS]

  doing this but that the company's business and then hand it off and he did [TS]

  this for I think at least one event handed off essentially not come back [TS]

  until the end and come back on station so they see this is why we do what we do [TS]

  only Apple can do this thanks for being here goodbye and that would be it but [TS]

  his presence is he's much more like the glue that holds the thing together than [TS]

  I thought he yes he did and I don't think he needed he could've had Phil [TS]

  Schiller do that right but right he hasn't and he's done a good job at it [TS]

  yeah it's a little bit more like the host of the Oscars exactly where there's [TS]

  certainly are you know you did a lot of the Oscar show is your some you know [TS]

  famous actor comes out to give the award for whatever so it's not like the host [TS]

  does it all but the host does glue every segment together and now exactly i feel [TS]

  exactly like you did I did not think we'd see as much of Tim Cook events like [TS]

  this as we do but it's you know it's all good [TS]

  yeah jeff williams care kit [TS]

  sounds like a big deal i I don't know what to make of it though you know like [TS]

  its it i'm not quite sure how that's going to work [TS]

  I mean it's just so far as the outside of the mainstream i think i think the [TS]

  answer is going to be that in a year we're going to hear like we did about [TS]

  some of the health stuff in in a year and the research get stuff will hear oh [TS]

  well this is how care kit is being used to help patients but beyond that I mean [TS]

  it's it unless you're what I what I hope is that we'll see something from [TS]

  somebody who covers like healthcare the and and and research and and medical [TS]

  stuff write a story or write stories about what's going on here with this [TS]

  because it's their area of expertise way more than [TS]

  is that it is ours i mean i-i know some doctors and I've talked to them about [TS]

  apple stuff and they say well it looks cool but unless you know somebody who's [TS]

  actually doing a research project that is using this tack it's harder to get a [TS]

  get a sense of what's going on I think it's great that they're doing it I i [TS]

  think this comes back to those corporate values again where apple looks at these [TS]

  devices and says we're making these devices and putting them in people's [TS]

  pockets and it can change their lives [TS]

  who's gonna you know who's going to make the tools that make the medical industry [TS]

  capable of doing this make it should be is where the platform owner we should do [TS]

  this and I I I think it's good that they're they're doing that but I don't [TS]

  know how to judge it [TS]

  yeah I thought it was pretty interesting because it just have a little bit of [TS]

  first-hand experience in the last few years with surgery that that the the [TS]

  thing he said like you in the hospital and you have the best people possible [TS]

  who do this all day every day and have up-to-the-minute knowledge dealing with [TS]

  every aspect of you you know everything you're hooked up to every way you're [TS]

  monitored the timing of everything is all taken care of by truly expert [TS]

  professionals and then when you're discharged they give you this and it's [TS]

  just like a sheet of paper yeah and it's lit it's so funny it was like not an [TS]

  exaggeration like one of my finger my I everything every little surgery I've had [TS]

  in the last few years that is that how they discharge you that give you like a [TS]

  piece of paper and I do read them and i followed the instructions like [TS]

  religiously because I you know I want these that you know I wanted my finger [TS]

  to actually work again I would you know was hoping that I would be able to see [TS]

  out of my left eye again but I can totally understand though how like a lot [TS]

  of people don't [TS]

  for whatever reason you know that they just don't think it's important or or [TS]

  whatever I wonder how much better putting it you know getting it into your [TS]

  phone will be i can see how it might be a lot better if you can get like if you [TS]

  can automate the hey you know it you know just like getting a text message [TS]

  you get an alert like without you having to manually set the alarm if you could [TS]

  just get the alert that says it's time to you know take one of your pills now [TS]

  or check your blood pressure or your Bureau or your you know anything like [TS]

  that your blood oxygen count or whatever it is that they're that they're looking [TS]

  for [TS]

  yeah and and [TS]

  I mean that's the it's a little bit like all the fitness stuff right it is the [TS]

  flipside to fit yes that's it that's I think that's exactly the model [TS]

  yeah because it's still it's still you know logging in motivation of date [TS]

  personal data and the difference here is that somebody is monitoring it for you [TS]

  because they're concerned about your you know specific health issues rather than [TS]

  it just being sort of you saying how much how many steps and i do how much [TS]

  that I run today right or you know but now if it's you know like a surgery like [TS]

  I had on my finger somebody else might have on their knee or hip or something [TS]

  like that you know not just stand up but it's time to do these stretching [TS]

  exercises i would totally i did some physical therapy and I totally this is [TS]

  the podcast world man talk about injuries [TS]

  um I just physical therapy on my shoulder and it was always a challenge [TS]

  for me when I came back because they had a whole regimen down and they gave me [TS]

  like the sheet of paper with some exercises circled in this like really [TS]

  bad illustrations and I and I had done the exercises like how do i do that [TS]

  again and it fell apart very quickly and I did have that thought of like you know [TS]

  would it be would have been better if I had sat down with some app and put in [TS]

  like a series of reminders or calendar events or something to get me to do this [TS]

  and the answer is probably yes but that and that was my failure is that I just [TS]

  sort of like took the piece of paper and figured I'd get to it and I never did [TS]

  yeah I also think and I think it's you know we we mentioned this earlier in the [TS]

  show this whole endeavor by apple with research kit and care kit isn't really [TS]

  selling phones right it's it really is a you know and as much as we can bitch [TS]

  about Apple jealously guarding its margins by still selling 16-gigabyte [TS]

  devices instead of starting everything 32 there's an area these areas like the [TS]

  environment and health kit and well maybe not healthcare but but research [TS]

  care kit for sure aren't really about selling you know devices i really do [TS]

  think it's it is an institutional this is the right thing to do [TS]

  we're in a position to do this and we should do it we're making the world a [TS]

  better place right i think i think it's almost like it's incumbent on us because [TS]

  we've got a popular platform I don't know if google has similar in [TS]

  videos I kind of hope they do because it's as a platform owner you kind of [TS]

  need to be the one to say yeah we're going to make this easier for these [TS]

  industries to work on our platform i think and i think that its exact sort of [TS]

  thing that google would do to get it does seem like the sort of you know that [TS]

  that without any sort of cynicism at all thats you know it is the sort of thing [TS]

  that google would want to do I mean you you're responsible for this [TS]

  these devices that are on everybody's bodies they can make a huge impact but [TS]

  they probably need a push because the industry is not monolithic enough [TS]

  probably to create an initiative to do it but you're the platform owner you [TS]

  could do it and then you you could help them and they're there are eventual [TS]

  benefits i think from in terms of sales like if you've got health care [TS]

  professionals and the healthcare industry really happy about how I Apple [TS]

  listens to them and does all of this maybe in the end they are more inclined [TS]

  to buy ipads or whatever but it's super interact I it it's not like research kit [TS]

  is going to you know sell thousands of iphones I think you're right about that [TS]

  I'm so then Tim Cook came back onstage and talked about Apple watch and and [TS]

  this is a perfect example of the sort of thing that years ago I would not have [TS]

  expected to cook the handle was that it was Tim Cook who introduced the new and [TS]

  again sound but blockbuster news but new new watch straps across the line on our [TS]

  spara what did he say our spring colors [TS]

  yeah well i think you know I it's it's not just gently tweaked I definitely see [TS]

  this as some kind of strategic move on Apple's part that they really are like [TS]

  every six months going to you know I i fully expect in September that you know [TS]

  probably new watch hardware in September we can talk about that in a moment to [TS]

  but you know new bands to rom a couple of things one thing is that they reduce [TS]

  the price the starting price for this the sport models drop 50 bucks so now [TS]

  it's a 299 starting price for the 38 millimeters support i didn't check even [TS]

  as did the did the bigger sport model also dropped 50 bucks how I didn't check [TS]

  you i think so i think the sport Sport drop 50 i think that was the story [TS]

  sport drop 50 that the first I some mentorship why didn't they drop the [TS]

  addition fish that joke is like that's good yeah yeah but you know you want to [TS]

  lower entry costs [TS]

  I and you know i got into it did you post a brief post on during fireball the [TS]

  day where somebody in a otherwise an article about something else just [TS]

  offhandedly mentioned that it's it seems like it's a sign that the watch is [TS]

  selling lower-than-expected because they dropped the price and I don't think [TS]

  that's necessarily true at all i think that the watch is it could be but I [TS]

  don't think you should draw that conclusion i think because it was [TS]

  announced it's been out for a year but it was announced 18 months ago [TS]

  yeah that in 18 months the idea that they could man you you know cut the [TS]

  price by 50 bucks and keep the margin around the same is a very apple-like [TS]

  thing to do and then on Twitter some people called me out and said well when [TS]

  the Apple never drops the price of anything like macbooks are all in Estill [TS]

  899 and 999 and it's true for certain products they kind of try to keep a [TS]

  price and keep it there but on others like and I would compare that especially [TS]

  the sport watch I would compare to the ipod in terms of what kind of product [TS]

  that mean it is to apple and you know the price points are similar and the [TS]

  ipods regularly dropped in price or at least the starting price of an ipod drop [TS]

  by like 50 bucks or so pretty steadily year after year after year until they [TS]

  got it down to you know well you know fifty dollar ones that you attached here [TS]

  jacket right so I see that as something that I i think you know that will see [TS]

  you know eventually you know maybe a year or two from now that the starting [TS]

  price will go to 199 and i don't know i don't know what the bottom is but it's [TS]

  probably like 149 or something like that i think you're right i think if you look [TS]

  at the price would you if you look at a price when it came out you have to say [TS]

  is it apples intent that the Apple watch to get into an apple watch will always [TS]

  be three 49er or 400 bucks or something like that is that is it really their [TS]

  long-term plan that this will always be four hundred dollar product [TS]

  no absolutely not absolutely not that's too expensive it is it's a [TS]

  first-generation product that's what they have to sell it at but [TS]

  the long run it's got to be cheaper than that right there to start at least it [TS]

  has to be so I think that's part of it i think ya there [TS]

  it's a it's a product has been out there a long time they wanna they want more [TS]

  people in the Apple watch world right so you lower the price a little bit you've [TS]

  got margin to give now I think it I think it's fine [TS]

  I i do think that if they were selling every single one that they could make [TS]

  and where supply constrained they wouldn't lower the price right but you [TS]

  know obviously not at that part of the cycle right but I think you're right if [TS]

  if Apple could make an apple watch ultimately making apple watch with good [TS]

  margins 450 bucks they would they would prefer to do that because this is an [TS]

  iphone accessory I think they would rather have the volume go up and then [TS]

  again keeping in mind even if you sold it a hundred fifty bucks you got [TS]

  watchbands and then you've got your fancier models that are always going to [TS]

  be there and always gonna be enticing people on the ought to spend more money [TS]

  i was talking to Mike early on our our podcast and he he listed off all the [TS]

  watch bands that he's bond it's like he has spent as much on watch bands for the [TS]

  Apple watches he spent on the Apple watch right i mean so I was just that [TS]

  was an interesting number from tim on stage it was something that they had to [TS]

  my knowledge has never revealed before he said one-third of their Apple watch [TS]

  customers regularly change bands [TS]

  yeah and I'm in there I've got like I've got like three and i definitely cycle [TS]

  between them here and it's kind of fun to him not in that makes it a little bit [TS]

  different for a few weeks I and I switch back [TS]

  yeah i got apple gave me and the the new space black one with Milanese as yeah to [TS]

  review which is nice [TS]

  I'd I like it more than I i I've worn a couple days this week i kinda don't like [TS]

  it though it for exactly the reason that I thought which is that I i kinda where [TS]

  my watch out at the hinge of my wrist and so it's sort of like when i flex my [TS]

  wrist it it puts a little stress on the band and the Milanese lips a little grab [TS]

  it as the way I where I feel like like i'd i would need to wear it a little bit [TS]

  higher on my wrist to keep it snug but i also got the nylon band and I like that [TS]

  a lot and i love the new nylon strap they there was a rumor that they were [TS]

  going to do like full-on like nato straps [TS]

  and it's it's very i was struck by something that Marco Arment set on on [TS]

  ATP the other week which isn't he he's kind of like abandoned the apple watch [TS]

  is going to mechanical watches and all that [TS]

  always off the deep end he's he's you know he it's marco he doesn't do [TS]

  anything halfway right but but what struck me about about somebody who's not [TS]

  into the apple watch anymore has moved on said and has done like real watches [TS]

  said said apples bands are like second to none [TS]

  I will really really owns the the watch band game i agree with that i think the [TS]

  bands are really great i bought this kickstarter thing that gets you use any [TS]

  watch band with its good just a couple of logs for the Apple watch and i put [TS]

  this black leather band that I had on him and it's terrible like in context [TS]

  compared to the apple leather band [TS]

  she's not even close and so that nato strap rumor was interesting and it is it [TS]

  surprising at all that in in the end what Apple did you say we've got [TS]

  something that's kind of like that but it's way better and yeah and then that's [TS]

  what the this woman stuff is like apples take on the john ruan of nato strap but [TS]

  not not the same [TS]

  yeah and it's funny too because the one thing with the nato strap is the real [TS]

  nato straps go underneath the watch [TS]

  it's like one continuous be a nylon that goes through the lug under the back so [TS]

  that the actual back of the watch doesn't touch your wrist that's it sits [TS]

  on top of the strap-on and ivory listen to the ATP x episode and Syracuse it was [TS]

  confused as to why that is there actually is like a tactical reason for [TS]

  the design of the strap the idea is that if one of the bars of your watch that [TS]

  holds a strap if one of them breaks it while you're like in combat because it's [TS]

  just one strap that goes through if one of the bars breaks the watch won't come [TS]

  off your wrist [TS]

  it'll still be flopping around because there's one bar broken but that the you [TS]

  know the rest of the strap will be going through the other bar right because [TS]

  you've essentially tried to strapped to your wrist right there superstar super [TS]

  super valuable i mean i think that they regularly sell for like six fifty [TS]

  thousand dollars or more but there's some vintage Rolexes that they made for [TS]

  the British military in the late sixties [TS]

  an early seventies and that they only could use a nato strap because the Vice [TS]

  the specs of the British military that the crossbars in the watch the thing [TS]

  that you need like you know and more than a normal watching need like a [TS]

  special tool to like you know it's called a spring bar see it compresses a [TS]

  little bit so it pops out so you can change the strap those bars were like [TS]

  welded or whatever you would call it you know they David they weren't springy [TS]

  they were like part of the actual watch so that they would be leaving less [TS]

  likely to break so there is a tactical reason for that but that design wouldn't [TS]

  work at all with the Apple watch because the strap would actually cover the [TS]

  sensors exactly so they had to do their own thing they're little apple ii spin [TS]

  on it right i find it to be a very comfortable material though I have a [TS]

  strap like that i'm an old regular watch that i have a similar it's not really an [TS]

  80 style i actually because i don't like that I don't like the way that it sits [TS]

  on your wrist when it goes through like that but its NATO style and has it just [TS]

  attaches to spring bars like a regular watch but I find that nylon is actually [TS]

  super comfortable material especially like in hot weather [TS]

  yeah and they look better I have heard some people say that they thought they [TS]

  looked kind of ugly on the on the apple website they look way better in person [TS]

  yeah they're actually very hard to photograph I think that yeah well it's [TS]

  almost like you get a little more a pattern on them but yeah they are they [TS]

  are they super pattern woven in a multiple color of woven fabric so that [TS]

  they're hard to their hard to picture [TS]

  yeah I'm looking at it right now on apple's website in by putting any kind [TS]

  of angle that even though on a retina my retina display here it's it there it's [TS]

  it's not a good pattern on it yeah it looks weird looks weird but in person [TS]

  they look nice but no major are shaking news on Apple watch which is exactly [TS]

  what we expected right so do you think what we talked about this in person [TS]

  after the event you think that they have to do I kind of think they do have to do [TS]

  apple watch to point out in September i think i think they need to do a refresh [TS]

  its September will be two years since it was announced [TS]

  if not shipped around and so it's hard to say that the hardware is two years [TS]

  old the hardware didn't exist when it was announced right it was they were [TS]

  still working on it and then they got out six months later [TS]

  but I feel like they did they do need to do a refresh at the same time I wonder [TS]

  what is an Apple watch refresh look like and is it you know they've got so much [TS]

  work i think to do on the software side still to that too is it isn't like i [TS]

  would like to see it be subtle [TS]

  I'd like it see it be like yes there's a new model but it looks like the old [TS]

  model more or less than all the bands work with it it behaves more or less the [TS]

  same maybe it's more energy-efficient it last longer it's it's it's more it's [TS]

  faster whatever but it's sort of like still Apple watch almost not like a [TS]

  stealth replacement Apple watch to is completely new but more like now you [TS]

  know here's the new model of Apple watch it sits a little bit better and and like [TS]

  leave it at that because I I feel like what they really don't want to do is [TS]

  giving him the impression that every two years [TS]

  there's going to be a completely different apple watch and all of your [TS]

  old stuff is gonna be gone [TS]

  I i think they all want almost want to make it feel timeless like this is our [TS]

  design it's going to look like this for a while you know you can get used to it [TS]

  feel to feel good about buying one but we'll see [TS]

  I I that's my hope is that it's it's not like a like a major phone announcement [TS]

  but it's more like yeah the apple watch is a little bit better now but it's [TS]

  still the apple watch and in especially on the hardware side because you know i [TS]

  think the hardware is is it can always be improved but it's not the problem [TS]

  with the Apple watch if I got problems with the Apple watch and we talked about [TS]

  this too when we were in cupertino you know I think it's more on the software [TS]

  like after two years of use or any year-and-a-half where the public is you [TS]

  is is using it they should have some better ideas about like assumptions they [TS]

  made two years ago that maybe are right that they have to fix and software I i [TS]

  think the hardware needs improvement to i think that the thing is just too damn [TS]

  slow [TS]

  I yeah yeah tonight really it's hard to tell right because is that the software [TS]

  the hardware it's gotta be the hardware that's just the fact that it takes [TS]

  forever for apps to launch and sometimes they don't [TS]

  well and just for example like I just went through it again because they let [TS]

  me have a review unit of the Milanese things so I paired it with the it it is [TS]

  the whole hassle it's such a it's the worst thing in the world to complain [TS]

  about because we want a great job [TS]

  I have this is great i mean i don't want to complain and then I you know Apple [TS]

  gives me these things to review and get to play with this all this stuff without [TS]

  having to buy it it's it's great fun but it you know but it's a pain in the ass [TS]

  like women with the way that Apple watch is paired to a phone [TS]

  it's a pain in the ass to test a new phone because then you can't really [TS]

  fully test it unless you're also pairing it you know with your watch if that's [TS]

  how you normally if you actually where Apple watch and you know it's such a [TS]

  pain in the ass to parenteral watch but just pairing the new watch that they [TS]

  gave me to review i paired it with the iphone SE so i'm i'm leaving my watch my [TS]

  up the one I actually bought known paired with the iphone 6s that i bought [TS]

  known and i'm using their review unit watch with a review unit phone what a [TS]

  pain in the ass addition to set up a new Apple watch it is it takes forever [TS]

  yeah it's a and that's not just a reviewer's problem [TS]

  my wife had her she had her iphone screen break and got a replacement and [TS]

  the replacement digitizer was bad so she took it back and they and they replace [TS]

  the whole unit and you know what that means she had to then reap reap air her [TS]

  Apple watch and restore from backup and it took forever and then it wasn't [TS]

  working right and and they said but wipe wipe it and don't restore your backup [TS]

  and see if it's something weird involving your backup so we wiped it and [TS]

  then we had to repair they have once again it's another like hour to set that [TS]

  I so there are real-world scenarios where it's like anytime you change [TS]

  anything about your phone you have to go through that Apple watch process again [TS]

  alright and i don't mean to i think in the long run they have to be aware of [TS]

  this because inside Apple they have to be you know they probably parent on pear [TS]

  apple watches more than anybody you know why they're testing ideas and testing [TS]

  you know prototype new devices and stuff like that so they have to be aware of [TS]

  that but it's when you've gone through and it's no longer novel like when you [TS]

  when it first came out and sure it took a long time but you could like you know [TS]

  I was you know just studying what it does and watching the little spinner go [TS]

  around and now that's a clever thing but now it's like oh my god this is [TS]

  ridiculous [TS]

  yeah i mean [TS]

  really can take like an hour it's got you so yeah I mean the hardware i would [TS]

  imagine that um a new Apple watch would not look at that different there's a [TS]

  rumor about putting a camera on it i don't even know about that because it's [TS]

  just gonna take pictures of your nose but I ridiculous but but making the [TS]

  processor faster and more energy-efficient and so that the battery [TS]

  last longer these are things that I could see right though that that's the [TS]

  to me it feels like that's what the the new Apple watch should be is like the [TS]

  old Apple watch except faster and last longer I can the only thing I could [TS]

  think of using the camera for would not be facetime because again the angle [TS]

  would be terrible and the your arms get tired within like 15 seconds [TS]

  yeah I i could see it though if they can do it it would almost be to me the only [TS]

  time i would imagine using it and i've i've been in this situation like when [TS]

  i'm out jogging and and don't want to take my phone out of the pocket I have [TS]

  and whatever if it's alright if I see something interesting [TS]

  it would be interesting to just . my wrist at it and take a picture but [TS]

  there'd be no there's problems with that too [TS]

  I because you don't you wouldn't be able to look at the screen to ya to do it if [TS]

  you're pointing just pointing your watch it something if you can launch a cock [TS]

  camera app and it turns the like the bottom button into a shutter for a [TS]

  picture you can get a picture but you you know you're almost like shooting it [TS]

  blind [TS]

  yeah I i took some pictures of the apple of them without looking through the [TS]

  viewfinder of like low low angles of apple products and the hands-on here [TS]

  afterward and they were all terrible because i couldn't frame them right [TS]

  it's not gonna be yeah I I get the appeal of the Dick Tracy video watch [TS]

  kind of thing but boy that would not be where I would put my that's nothing [TS]

  that's crying out on the exactly right [TS]

  this boy only had a camera in there man then we would really have something that [TS]

  is not what I i think it's going on with the Apple watch [TS]

  exactly so yeah I do think though that the big news for the watch and hardware [TS]

  and software will all be in September I think it'd be a huge part of the [TS]

  September event yeah I'd love to see if there was a if they talk about watching [TS]

  us [TS]

  3a lot at WWDC if we get if we get maybe get a sense of that they're right I I'm [TS]

  and I'm hoping I'm really hoping that they rethink the whole thing because [TS]

  yeah it feels like and developers feel this way to I think which is you know [TS]

  the app model doesn't really work right and it's completely using and people [TS]

  aren't using apps in large part on the on the watch when i talk to developers [TS]

  who have watch apps their apps don't get used very much and that would be a good [TS]

  time for them to communicate with developers like all right we're going to [TS]

  make some changes to watch OS we're going to make it simpler [TS]

  you know this is how you're gonna your software is going to interact with it's [TS]

  gonna be a little bit different i would love to hear that at WWDC we'll see if [TS]

  they because i feel like the after two years they gotta look at and go oh yeah [TS]

  we we probably this hole complications and glances and apps from the app [TS]

  launcher screen and what we use the buttons for it's like we kind of got it [TS]

  wrong [TS]

  let's let's clean this up and and into it take to on it um and I hope they do i [TS]

  hope they don't I hope they I think it'll be hard for them not to notice [TS]

  that I hope they're like pride doesn't get in the way like no no it's gonna be [TS]

  fine it's gonna be fine because I think this product could be way better even if [TS]

  all they did was change some of the things about the software [TS]

  yeah I very much agree with that I we ever took my bottom line is that i think [TS]

  they made a big mistake by offering apps in the first place that maybe eventually [TS]

  they should have done it but i think they should have bit the bullet and done [TS]

  what they did with the iphone and wait at least a year before they open it up [TS]

  to apps just because the app experience is so poor [TS]

  it's it really would have been better to ship without it even though it would [TS]

  have inevitably led to people screaming that they want apps only in theory but i [TS]

  still think it just the actual experience of it and the way it's played [TS]

  out [TS]

  I think bears that out like you said like developers even say you know we [TS]

  made the appt nobody uses it [TS]

  yeah and and having you know your apps on your phone is phone accessory having [TS]

  your apps on your phone do things on the watch that are interesting i like that [TS]

  idea i think the complications thing is actually way more interesting i think [TS]

  glances are actually a little bit more interesting I don't [TS]

  was rather glances be more powerful and not have apps [TS]

  yep yeah I I never want to go i can't remember the last time that I'd wanted [TS]

  to and needed to go to the app screen so the pressing one of the primary buttons [TS]

  on the thing one press on the crown takes me to a place where I never want [TS]

  to go [TS]

  yep so anyway I'm with you I new hardware and I I hope like a interesting [TS]

  conceptual rethink of the software would I didn't really think about the fact [TS]

  that they might do that it's at WWDC I kind of bet that they don't because i [TS]

  think that if they're going to do that it at now that you mention it I kind of [TS]

  think it could be a big towel as to whether they're going to rethink it or [TS]

  not and I feel like if they talk about it at WWDC it probably won't involve a [TS]

  major conceptual rethink of how the watch us works and if there are going to [TS]

  do it i think they're going to save it for September so that they can add to [TS]

  the surprise of the event will be one of those half-measures things where you [TS]

  know here are some new things you can do with wha chaps and leaving aside that [TS]

  well we're actually going to change how you get to them and how it works but you [TS]

  know only tell the developers what they need to know to to get their apps [TS]

  I don't know I feel like they need to evangelize with developers about watch [TS]

  apps because i feel like there with that was not only did the customers sort of [TS]

  get let down by the apps but the developers got let down by the apps it [TS]

  was right there there if they had to change you know midstream and the watch [TS]

  is two apps were different rules than the original watch apps and and so I [TS]

  feel like yeah they want if they want active app developers on the watch [TS]

  they're gonna have to tell them a story of some kind of WWDC yeah and i think [TS]

  that you know the truth is that they burned a little bit of trust right yeah [TS]

  oh yeah you know the message from Apple both publicly and privately by talking [TS]

  to like developer relations people was seriously you you know you should do [TS]

  this you should you know you should you need a story to get on the watch get on [TS]

  the watch and a lot of you know a lot of people listen to a lot of people did it [TS]

  and I think a lot of people see it as effectively wasted effort or at least [TS]

  effort that could might have been better allocated something else not that it was [TS]

  completely wasted but that maybe the time would be better [TS]

  spent you know making your ipad version of your app better position and not just [TS]

  because of like how many people it's not how many people have apple launches [TS]

  that's not the issue the issue is people who have the Apple watches aren't using [TS]

  their watch apps because the app experience on the watch is bad right [TS]

  right [TS]

  that brings us to the iphone SE and jaws did it on stage I guess we can just [TS]

  makes talking about the actual device with with with the event I thought he [TS]

  did a good job i thought you know we haven't seen jaws on stage in awhile and [TS]

  the idea is really he's a great presenter I think so too i ran into him [TS]

  before the event I i I'm and I walked over from from building one where we all [TS]

  came in over the building for with him and we were chatting because he he saw [TS]

  the town hall story that we did and that was that was great and it turns out they [TS]

  had a slide about the presentation so we have people like I see it's not just us [TS]

  um which was cool and I live no neck I for a long time because he used to be [TS]

  like the powerbook product manager [TS]

  I mean he goes back a long way at apple and I he he is very good onstage and one [TS]

  of those town hall event that we found he liked was the person who intro the [TS]

  event he like got up on stage and said good morning everybody welcome to this [TS]

  applicant wow if you had first I i remember that when it i think it was [TS]

  like the iOS to or iOS three [TS]

  yeah I'm it was like a march event where they were like I announced I think maybe [TS]

  like iOS three and i think it was the iphone software 3.0 I think that's what [TS]

  they call it right and it was at a time one of the times when Steve Jobs was on [TS]

  a medical leave right and it was a year after they had they launch the app store [TS]

  I'm yeah yeah so he's good and it was great to see him on stage because I I I [TS]

  like him I think he's a I think he's a good guy and and I think he does a good [TS]

  job on stage he's always been sort of you know he works for phil schiller so [TS]

  he doesn't get necessarily as many opportunities to shine because Phil [TS]

  could have done that demo right but but instead just did it and I thought that [TS]

  did a good job [TS]

  yeah and it's a tough it [TS]

  of pitch like I said at the beginning of the show it's you know here's a phone [TS]

  that everything about it is familiar in some way it's just a new combination and [TS]

  you know I thought he did a good job and somebody who's been looking forward to [TS]

  the idea of a 4-inch phone that plz plz plz still has top-of-the-line specs i [TS]

  was really happy with the announcement tons of speculation before the event [TS]

  that that it was gonna have like a underclocked a nine if it does seven [TS]

  eight nine that the camera would be some sort of lesser image quality compared to [TS]

  the success and both of those things turned out not to be true [TS]

  yeah it's um it's funny the the it makes sense to me write the rumors that like [TS]

  oh it's going to be a redesigned thing and and you know it's it's a that end [TS]

  well I mean what you said about the the idea of it being underclocked [TS]

  underclocked I was pondering that because that on one level it just makes [TS]

  sense it's like well it's gonna be the cheapest phone it should be kind of [TS]

  lesser right and then as I was listening i thought okay i see what they're doing [TS]

  here they're doing a lot of what they did when they did the ipad air 2 which [TS]

  is let's max it out now and we're going to just leave it there for a while [TS]

  because are they really going to do a new iphone SE every year [TS]

  no they're not so pack it with the the 6s stuff for the most part right now [TS]

  pack that in and I would call that this year's technology but it's not this [TS]

  year's technology right it's it's last year's technology in the current current [TS]

  models but there will be new models in a few months so packed with last year's [TS]

  technology but that will give you a couple you know 23 years where you don't [TS]

  have to update it and then in two or three years you turn it around again [TS]

  maybe and have it look perhaps even exactly the same as it does now again [TS]

  but you you know at that point you put in the specs from the iphone 7s or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  yeah that's the the it's like I've been hoping for an iphone 4 with with these [TS]

  specs for so long and now that I've got it i'm instantly worried about the [TS]

  future [TS]

  sure right because you may not be able to whatever amazing thing they announce [TS]

  this fall or even next fall [TS]

  you know mean it may not come to that phone for two years or three years [TS]

  that's very true now so by thinking strategically is that they're definitely [TS]

  not going to do a 4-inch phone in September another one now dad certainly [TS]

  not right now I don't even think it will be once a year I don't think so either [TS]

  like and I know and that's a couple of people I've spoken to privately have [TS]

  been like who were four inch fans were you know like I think it's too much to [TS]

  ask that they were going to do an iphone 7 that comes in three sizes for 4.75 [TS]

  qualified because this it's only six months after this event right like build [TS]

  so they'll go off cycle with events but they almost never the only one I can [TS]

  only example I can think of is when they they they replace the ipad 36 months [TS]

  after it came out right [TS]

  yeah that was like the first retina iPad is soo underpowered under don't forget [TS]

  it it was it was like them [TS]

  it's like the 1i OS clunker device that they've shipped and it was nice in some [TS]

  ways because it was retina and retina in and of itself is I think that's why they [TS]

  did it is now threatening in and of itself is so compelling and i won my [TS]

  wife used that for several years yeah yeah but it you know was replaced just [TS]

  six months after it came out which is unusual but that was because it was you [TS]

  know there were problems with the with the ipad 3 was too heavy it was [TS]

  underpowered and there's no problems with the iphone SE like that know and [TS]

  and you know Apple has shown in the last few years that they're willing to take [TS]

  these products and put them on other something other than a one year cycle [TS]

  it's like how do we do more products one way we do more products as Apple is not [TS]

  not update all our products every year right so so they the ipad air is a great [TS]

  example ipad air 2 the ipad mini how do you had a year where they didn't do a [TS]

  new version of it right and then you come out with one and it's [TS]

  top-of-the-line like ipad air 2 blew us away with how much stuff was in it and [TS]

  that's good because it was so far ahead that it had a lot of like room to fall [TS]

  lot of time where it kind of decay as other products advanced and it would [TS]

  still be pretty good and and that's still I mean cutting the price on it [TS]

  that's still a pretty great product with a pretty good great price even now [TS]

  but that's that I feel is what the SEC stories it's the same thing it's like [TS]

  let's max it out now because then it's just gonna sit there for a couple years [TS]

  yeah I kind of feel like it's it's the iphone 5c done right it yeah yeah i mean [TS]

  the 5c label it was literally the old phone and with color in it and I think [TS]

  people felt like they were getting i think one of the reasons that didn't [TS]

  sell so well is that they felt like they were getting kind of last year's tak [TS]

  yeah and and it was not really a new phone it was just a new rapper and the [TS]

  iphone SE is a new phone in an old rapper well and I know that there are [TS]

  definitely know anything we say no you know we always speak in the Iowa [TS]

  speaking extremes because it is you say nobody wanted to buy last year's phone [TS]

  or nobody wanted to buy a phone that didn't look like a premium iphone and of [TS]

  course that's not true [TS]

  plenty of people bought the iphone 5c sure there's lots and we're still using [TS]

  I even I've been on Apple's campus and a not recently but I you know when it was [TS]

  fresher I saw people you know Apple employees who obviously are well [TS]

  informed about the specs i could have any phone and iphone that they want who [TS]

  chose the 5c because they wanted the color you know it definitely appeal to [TS]

  some people [TS]

  Tom but in Bernardino County loved it too i think is as friend of the show Ben [TS]

  Thompson nose at as pointed out i think in the aggregate though it proved to be [TS]

  a mistake to make a phone that didn't look like a premium iphone that in the [TS]

  iphone brand is to continue it hinges upon looking like a premium device and [TS]

  therefore it needs to be made out of apples premium materials which at the [TS]

  moment are you know anodized aluminum yeah it's almost like it's a psychology [TS]

  that it can be cheaper [TS]

  that's fine but it still needs to look like its premium like it's expensive and [TS]

  that's that's an important part of the brand identity i guess so I my guess is [TS]

  strategically they're not going to do a new one next year maybe I i wouldn't be [TS]

  surprised if they never make a 4-inch iphone again and I know that that kind [TS]

  of is a little contrary to Jazz's pitch on stage that we've you know realize [TS]

  that some people prefer 4-inch fun i wouldn't be surprised if they never do [TS]

  again but it might be completely based on how well the [TS]

  iphone SE cells if it does sell well enough that they're like yeah we should [TS]

  you know we should definitely keep this in the light you know something at this [TS]

  size in the lineup [TS]

  I wouldn't be surprised if we don't hear you get another one for two years [TS]

  yeah I i would be shocked if it wasn't on a two or three-year cycle and that's [TS]

  okay that's okay not every Apple product needs to get updated every year right [TS]

  because we just got we got trained that there would always be a new one and and [TS]

  their bandwidth I mean like I said the idea that you've got now three different [TS]

  current iphone models plus two of last year's that are still being made and [TS]

  sold so there's five new iPhones right you can't m3 current models you can't [TS]

  turn them all over every year they just they can't they [TS]

  Apple I don't think between the designers and engineers and all that [TS]

  even apple doesn't have the bandwidth to do that and all the ipads that they've [TS]

  got now and all the max they've got now so you pull some things that are less [TS]

  vital and you and you put them on a two-year cycle but nothing wrong with [TS]

  that [TS]

  and until monday that I've you know the 4-inch iphone that they were selling was [TS]

  from 2013 it was two-and-a-half years old so i wouldn't be surprised at all [TS]

  and in fact if you follow the Apple is a company of patterns i think i wouldn't [TS]

  be surprised if maybe we get another one two and a half years from now maybe [TS]

  they'll do a 4-inch phone that premieres at the September event could be could be [TS]

  or it'll be another thing like this where in two years will be a will be a [TS]

  spring event and it'll be the best tak from the iphone 7s inside the new iphone [TS]

  SE right one thing they mentioned multiple times jobs mentioned at least [TS]

  at least twice was that the chamfered edge is now Matt instead of polished [TS]

  which is true it is you can if you look at it side-by-side with an iphone 5 r 5 [TS]

  5 or 5s you will see the difference [TS]

  I thought it was a curious thing that they mentioned multiple times though [TS]

  well I mean it's like literally the only thing that's different about I wonder I [TS]

  wonder whether that is a decision I would love to know if that is a decision [TS]

  made for aesthetic reasons for financial reasons because it is it is it that Jony [TS]

  ive seen how you know if I ever get it [TS]

  hands i'm not going to Johnny I voice if i ever get a chance to revisit the 5s [TS]

  the thing the thing that bothers me about it is I really regret the shiny [TS]

  chamfered edge given that the the rest of the edges are all matt is it was a [TS]

  mistake or whether it's more like hey Johnny it's going to save us like two [TS]

  dollars of phone not to have the chamfered edge be shiny to you care and [TS]

  have him saying man its fine and he cared he cared when the phone was new [TS]

  and it was like no goddammit we're gonna you know we're paying fifty cents to do [TS]

  it and now he does it's like sort of like he doesn't doesn't really care [TS]

  about the that's all i'd love to know whether whether it was that like a [TS]

  financial decision or or is it like a revisitation of you know [TS]

  oh I changed my mind about the chamfered edges now I can see it either way I [TS]

  could see that maybe it was actually difficult to do the matte finish and [TS]

  they couldn't do it before and now they have figured out a way to do it and now [TS]

  they're that's why they mentioned it twice because it's a hard thing to do [TS]

  but rather proud of it i don't know either [TS]

  it certainly I think it certainly makes the design of the phone more consistent [TS]

  to have it be not shiny on the on the champers because nothing else is shiny [TS]

  but I don't know from from a aesthetic like a as a hardware designer what what [TS]

  somebody like Johnny I would say about that I i I'm a little baffled but like [TS]

  literally that's it for the 5s because the 5s is that has the the double flash [TS]

  on the back so that the camera the flash everything other than the Apple itself [TS]

  and and the the printing on the back [TS]

  the only other physical characteristic that is different is that champer so [TS]

  what I guess if we talk about it because what else we're going to say alright I [TS]

  guess I what do you what do you what are your thoughts on 4-inch funds are you a [TS]

  4-inch you tempted [TS]

  I'm a little bit tempted [TS]

  it's I go back and forth i mean a big big screens are nice [TS]

  the thing I love about the about the 4 inch size and the the iphone 5 design is [TS]

  its it feels great in the hand it's easier to hold the the sixes do feel [TS]

  slippery and like it like they're like a polished Rock I've never felt [TS]

  comfortable the first I always wore my or my iphone naked and I put a case on [TS]

  the on the six and move that case to the success the Apple other case because [TS]

  it's just I need [TS]

  it to be creepier i felt like i was going to slip out of my hands I never [TS]

  feel that way with that with a five [TS]

  I've always I've always felt that they were they were super solid but you know [TS]

  the trade-off there is that yeah the screen is a lot smaller and as somebody [TS]

  who is not a computer anymore [TS]

  I you know I don't rely on my iphone as much as i used to i use it when i'm out [TS]

  and i use it like I'm walking the dog or taking a run or something like that [TS]

  unless the podcast on it or something like that but I i used to use it all the [TS]

  time when I was riding the bus and things like that and I don't I don't do [TS]

  that anymore so so for me it's less of a Productivity device than it used to be [TS]

  and so the smaller screen probably wouldn't make much of a difference to me [TS]

  and it's and it's easier to hold so I'm kind of on the fence about it I i'm [TS]

  tempted I i totally am tempted [TS]

  I'm also a little reluctant to embrace it because of what we said before which [TS]

  is right [TS]

  its state-of-the-art for six months and then it probably will be not [TS]

  state-of-the-art for the next 18 exactly and I'm and I'm it's like however much I [TS]

  prefer the size and I definitely prefer the size i'm not going to not have the [TS]

  top-of-the-line phone so come September when the iphone 7 comes out I'm going to [TS]

  switch to that anyway so which is why this is a phone for people who aren't I [TS]

  desperate to always be on the cutting edge like some of us right or for [TS]

  somebody for whom the the larger size is just a deal breaker and I've heard from [TS]

  I know a bunch of people who have held onto those 5s is because they're like I [TS]

  don't want a bigger phone it's too big for me and and some of them i mean there [TS]

  was a conversation on Twitter that I thought was pretty good about like you [TS]

  can't you can overstate saying well women helps with small hands [TS]

  I prefer a small phone because I know a lot of women who love huge phones [TS]

  because they just put your phone in a purse and it doesn't it doesn't matter [TS]

  but I i dunno people men and women who find holding that big phone [TS]

  uncomfortable and the little phone a lot more comfortable and so for those people [TS]

  that you know I think or uncomfortable in their pocket or they have small [TS]

  pockets and they can't fit a phone in their pocket [TS]

  those are the people who are gonna we're gonna love it as well as all the people [TS]

  who want the to buy an iphone and this is going to be by far the cheapest [TS]

  iphone they can buy yeah [TS]

  I do miss I just so much of this design that i miss i love that it stands up on [TS]

  any side you can put it sideways to watch video you can stand it up to take [TS]

  pictures a no camera bump no camera bump oh and I'll say this to it's got a [TS]

  headphone jack on it so if the future of the iphone and on it being on the [TS]

  cutting edge is losing the headphone jack maybe I'm okay with having the the [TS]

  retro phone thats that's not on the cutting edge [TS]

  I don't know it does feel a little retro it does if I need to talk about [TS]

  something that what the design premiered in $MONTH 2012 [TS]

  yeah talk about it being retro but it's it doesn't from earlier in the decade [TS]

  well anyway I like it and yeah my only the only reason I wouldn't switch from [TS]

  my 4s are at 4s Jesus the success packed and then switch to the size is only [TS]

  because I i think it's I you know 6y get used to it for six months only to go [TS]

  back [TS]

  yeah temper because you're gonna want that iphone 7 whatever it is right [TS]

  you're gonna want it [TS]

  yeah well I honestly it's the camera quality and I say that knowing that I [TS]

  could i get slightly better optical it you know I get the optical image [TS]

  stabilization in the six in the plus but I'm not switching to a plus-size phone [TS]

  but what ok so what happens if there's that rumor that there's going to be a [TS]

  super fancy camera that's only going to be on a plus model would that be enough [TS]

  like a really good maybe almost like SLR quality camera on an iphone but you have [TS]

  to get the big iphone would you get the big iphone fact remember that is and [TS]

  maybe I've been thinking about ever since the rumor I'm and I i don't know [TS]

  what i do i I don't know it would be that would be a very hard question [TS]

  because the camera is seriously so important to me I mean I know I've said [TS]

  this before but I know it's called the iphone but if I had to pick one [TS]

  component to break and have the option was you can have it you know for the [TS]

  rest of the week you can use this phone that doesn't make phone calls or you can [TS]

  use this one that doesn't take pictures [TS]

  almost all the time I want the one that that has the broken phone but takes [TS]

  pictures and it's more of an eye camera to me than an iphone just I really i'd [TS]

  agree i mean for me if it if it all i did was take pictures and play podcast [TS]

  side [TS]

  probably be okay with not having it make phone calls right so I I don't know if I [TS]

  i really hope that that the idea that the dual cameras only in a plus i hope [TS]

  that's not true [TS]

  yeah me too but I i could see i could see them doing that right i mean and i [TS]

  do think that cameras is one of these like we've come so far with the [TS]

  smartphones like we're talking about earlier but camera technology is like [TS]

  that's one of the frontiers smart phones cameras and then impervious to damage [TS]

  damage seems to me like the big areas here and I could maybe throwing glare [TS]

  like I'm glad that they talked about Claire and the new ipad which will get [TS]

  to because that's that's also an issue but it's not like to be faster all that [TS]

  is sure yeah it's gonna have more battery life but great cameras in a in a [TS]

  smartphone is a you know that's a huge area of interest for anybody who's got [TS]

  it because those are our cameras now I have all I keep making better it i wiii [TS]

  you talked about your love of the original iphone feel and I'd feel the [TS]

  same way about i love the outside design but it's it's always mind-blowing to me [TS]

  I mean we're nine years into it but I still feel like it's the new thing the [TS]

  iphone but the original iphone camera was a total piece of craft terrible it [TS]

  was just like a stock like phone camera apart from Japan they don't know i mean [TS]

  i'm glad they put it in but it it was you know almost useless for it was it [TS]

  was no better than the type of kid pictures you took with your dumb phone [TS]

  really it didn't even and it didn't even take video you can even shoot bad video [TS]

  a genuine didn't do video it reminded me of like the bad camcorder early not I [TS]

  wasn't a bad camcorders in the early days of VHS but no reminded me of like [TS]

  the really bad early digital cameras where it's just you know it's tricky [TS]

  can't do low light at all it's a miracle that it's there at all but it's really [TS]

  like why not put you sure we should put a camera on it it's not any good and you [TS]

  would never want to use it unless you were desperate but at least we have it [TS]

  and it's a mile away and now we've got people you know we've got kids you know [TS]

  in in the intervening nine years we've got kids who their entire uh all of the [TS]

  video that's been taken of them as little babies and growing up has all [TS]

  been shot on iphones and it's great quality [TS]

  yeah just fork at 4k video it's just like mind-blowing for my TV my TV I [TS]

  actually do have a 4k TV I could figure out a way to put it on there i could buy [TS]

  can watch that 4k video on there but it's just yeah it's come a long way and [TS]

  yet I take pictures with my SLR my five-year-old SLR and oh they're they're [TS]

  way better [TS]

  yeah right so there's there's plenty more work to be done Oh tons of room [TS]

  especially in in lower light [TS]

  yeah and and in the beauty of having these the the smartphone's having the [TS]

  processors they do right is that the image processing is part of the equation [TS]

  to software and and and chip design can help too so I yeah I mean I don't know [TS]

  you did you see that there's like a I think that looks like a smartphone but [TS]

  it's not a smartphone it's a camera and it's got like nine lenses yeah I know [TS]

  exactly what you're talking about and you name it and I know it's really weird [TS]

  but you do I think we're entering that era now where people are rethinking how [TS]

  you do photography in a given that you have to have a flat device and the [TS]

  answer is well I can't have a long lens but I could have a lot of lens is and [TS]

  use software because I've got this super powerful processor here and so I think [TS]

  things are gonna get really interesting for phone photography in the next few [TS]

  years [TS]

  yeah totally i don't think we're anywhere close to and I think that the [TS]

  fact that the ad campaign that they've really really been pounding for close to [TS]

  two years i think now is shot with iphone 6 you know [TS]

  no yeah i just realized if it if the ad campaign is shot shot with iphone [TS]

  success or whatever that I think that's what it is now a shot with iphone [TS]

  success will they will they allow pictures shot with the iphone SE like is [TS]

  that like it is there's like a certain truth in advertising that it's phone you [TS]

  know you can't use of a picture shot with iphone SE if the campaign is shot [TS]

  with iphone 6s it'll just be shot with iphone yeah that's what I think the [TS]

  campaign should be shot with iphone i don't think they should I don't think [TS]

  they should say success although maybe there's you know some sort of trying to [TS]

  tempt people to upgrade aspect to it [TS]

  I guess the last thing here's another thing that I did not write about on [TS]

  monday and i think i should have and I feel like it reading other people's [TS]

  coverage it's so many excellent pieces that were reviewing a good pit you you [TS]

  had a good take Ben Thompson had a great take [TS]

  but the one thing I missed was the price I and I feel like goin in large part in [TS]

  recent years I've really gotten away from talking about prices i just accept [TS]

  them for what they are and I think that it's time i'm doing a disservice to my [TS]

  analysis by not taking it into an equation i think somebody called out [TS]

  like in one of my reviews recent big reviews like maybe for the iphone [TS]

  success i didn't even talk about like what the prices were whether people [TS]

  should buy it or not i just talked about what it does [TS]

  I 399 starting point for a top-of-the-line iphone is a huge [TS]

  difference i think that the starting price for an iphone 6s or our new i [TS]

  think it was like six 649 to buy one without you no contract or anything so [TS]

  it's it it's groundbreaking territory 399 4 / 4 99 for this 16 and 64 kid [TS]

  configurations [TS]

  yeah i-i've been i was talking to people about it in terms of the you know with [TS]

  two-year contract price which is not a thing anymore [TS]

  in most cases and and it totally totally isn't but we all understand the context [TS]

  of that and in that context the iphone SE is free [TS]

  yeah right that that's where it's fitting in the line is it's a hundred [TS]

  below the what is it the success [TS]

  nice yeah that's where it fits it fits in the exactly in the same slot as the [TS]

  5s and that's just remarkable for something that's not two and a half year [TS]

  old technology that Club no trick month old technology and then Thompson's it it [TS]

  really is and and Ben Thompson's piece that you're talking about was really [TS]

  great because a lot of criticism was people were looking at what its price [TS]

  was going to be in India it's like retail price and he's he's so so good [TS]

  with some of this international stuff especially east he pointed out that the [TS]

  stores in India don't sell at the retail price and he's did a calculation of like [TS]

  what you considering the street prices of existing phones in india what the [TS]

  street price of this would be and it basically goes back to they priced at [TS]

  the way they did to get it to be the price they wanted to be which is [TS]

  essentially the same price as it is in the US for india so he deflated some of [TS]

  the criticism of like the exchange rate ruining the idea that it might be on a [TS]

  lower-cost iPhone mmm yeah I I don't and I don't have much to say about the price [TS]

  but i do think that it's it noteworthy and it signals a strategic change the [TS]

  lowest the lowest cost iPhone right now for the first time in awhile has almost [TS]

  all the features of the expensive iphones right it's not a it's not a [TS]

  low-cost because its two-year old tech right at the moment and that's good [TS]

  that's a good deal right now it's a great deal right and and i think that [TS]

  the way that will see this is or in you know it alleviated they don't break out [TS]

  the models that much they did say on state jobs said that they sold 30 [TS]

  million 4-inch phones in 2015 [TS]

  it was actually your piece that they're open my eyes to it because you mentioned [TS]

  that they sell and you're right up that they sell 230 million total so it's [TS]

  still only like eleven percent because I wrote down in my notes 30 million 4-inch [TS]

  phones and I circled it like hey there's still popular size like i'm not i'm not [TS]

  a weirdo for wanting a 4-inch phone but then I realize it's only only like ten [TS]

  percent you also like 13 i did i mean the the years are probably wrong but I [TS]

  look at what they sold last year and and it's thirteen percent or something like [TS]

  that but keep in mind that thirteen percent of a $YEAR 12 21 have to do and [TS]

  have your old phone right so they're going to sell more than that so I think [TS]

  it's totally reasonable that the iphone SE could be fifteen to twenty percent of [TS]

  total iphone sales which is you know if you're asking the question is it worth [TS]

  updating the 4-inch phone is it worth having this as part of your product [TS]

  lineup which is actually five phones wide yeah i mean if if you're going to [TS]

  sell twenty percent of your line is going to be this phone [TS]

  it's totally worth it but I think if it proves popular as i suspect it will be [TS]

  which is a little bit more you know [TS]

  maybe maybe it will creep up to like fifteen percent to twenty percent of [TS]

  iphone sold now that it has as good a camera and it's just as fast as I feel [TS]

  like that's the two things that even casual people if you tell them this [TS]

  phone is just as fast and it takes just go to pictures and video as the success [TS]

  than anybody is tempted by the size will say well I don't you know i'm fine with [TS]

  the first generation touch ID sensor and I'm fine without having 3d touch and the [TS]

  other little things that are missing [TS]

  it's going to affect average selling price of iphone right it's this is a [TS]

  move where I think strategically apple is now willing to have the average [TS]

  selling price of iphone drop in order to sell more phones throughout the world [TS]

  yeah I i agree although i think it will be less dramatic then we might think [TS]

  because of the fact that they already were selling a phone at this price it's [TS]

  just going to be a more for and again it's going to be at that curve where [TS]

  it's going to be the current phone for six months right and then it's going to [TS]

  be a step behind the the high-end phones for a year after that and then for [TS]

  another unknown . after that it will presumably be two years behind so it'll [TS]

  have a you know it'll have a sales curve will go back down but for the first six [TS]

  months or a year it'll it'll eat into the ESPYs a little bit right because it [TS]

  just because it's a better phone at that at that price point but it's not like [TS]

  they didn't have one there before that wasn't even they sold whatever was 20 [TS]

  million of them at that price in the last year so you know if the the asp [TS]

  change is only going to be in sort of the difference between that the boost [TS]

  that they get because it's a much better phone but they are willing to do that [TS]

  there's no doubt about it [TS]

  yeah anything else on iphone before we move on I don't know i mean i think i [TS]

  think we got on the phone that has it all entirely things that have already [TS]

  existed when I meet up before we move onto the ipad pro the new iPad pro i [TS]

  will take a moment here to thank our our last sponsor and it's a new sponsor i [TS]

  love these all of these people I've tried this and it is terrific [TS]

  it's hellofresh h-e-l-l-o fres h they are a meal kit delivery service and they [TS]

  make cooking fun easy and convenient to sign up [TS]

  and you can you can get like a three meals a week or for meals a week you get [TS]

  five meals a week and and they're designed for either two or four people [TS]

  so you say we're family for we want three meals a week they have new [TS]

  so you say we're family for we want three meals a week they have new [TS]

  recipes and meals every week you pick the ones that appeal to you that you [TS]

  want and then the food just shows up at your door in a box and it's days like [TS]

  dry ice to keep the stuff cold and stuff like that [TS]

  everything shows up and it's all the exact right amount of quantities so [TS]

  there's no nothing to waste so it and it really does work out well we've done [TS]

  this and it the food is great it comes it's super super attractive i was always [TS]

  word with the middle everything it's like i'm kinda picky when i'm in a [TS]

  supermarket like when i pick the produce like I want you know I don't like a [TS]

  green pepper that's squishy I want a good one [TS]

  everything that they sent us was absolutely perfect [TS]

  I mean just super super great stuff really fresh ingredients and the recipes [TS]

  are all designed to to be done in 30 minutes or less and the recipes are [TS]

  terrifically well explained I mean it even an idiot like me who can't cook [TS]

  could do it it is that can't say enough good some good food good recipes great [TS]

  instructions incredibly convenient i had it's amazing to me that this works it [TS]

  feels like I'm living in the future and it saves you from going to the grocery [TS]

  store can't say enough good things about it give it a try you get 35 bucks off [TS]

  your first week of deliveries by using this code you just use the code talk [TS]

  show and you go to hellofresh com [TS]

  so you go to hello fresh com take a look at it pick out the ones you want and [TS]

  you'll save $35 just by using the code talk show tlk show1 say enough good [TS]

  stuff about it highly recommended go give them a try hello fresh groceries [TS]

  just delivered right to your door crazy [TS]

  its water world we live in so then we got now we have the ipad pro which I [TS]

  guess we could start by just talking about the name which was as rumored that [TS]

  there is nothing you know it's not the ipad air three it is just called ipad [TS]

  pro and [TS]

  I guess it's not unprecedented right because the name of the 13-inch macbook [TS]

  pros macbook pro right name of the 15-inch macbook pros macbook pro so it's [TS]

  just you know specified by size [TS]

  it kills me the the decimals though makes me sad i really like to refer to [TS]

  these as the 10 and 13 inch iPads yeah they're they're a little bit they come [TS]

  up a little short so I there is nothing but you talk about having problems as a [TS]

  product review or boohoo [TS]

  but i have to set up like a keyboard shortcut or something for us like a [TS]

  mountain . 7 inch iPad pro every time I type that now [TS]

  yeah it's like the little one or the tenant called the 10-inch but it's not [TS]

  10 inches diagonal it's nine point seven inches so I'm already sick of I'm [TS]

  already sick of typing that [TS]

  yeah yeah me too i mean we can come up with a nickname for it but you know that [TS]

  that was the advantage of saying 11-inch macbook air it's like 11 inches better [TS]

  than 9.7 inch that's not fun to write but it does make sense i mean this is [TS]

  this is the laptop laptop ification I don't know of the of the ipad line where [TS]

  it's like instead of saying we're going to count by one every time we release [TS]

  one and we're gonna keep the old ones around instead it strikes me that this [TS]

  is a little bit more like nope [TS]

  these are the slots got a big one and a little one and those are our iPad pros [TS]

  and next year if we if we update them they're just gonna fit in these slots [TS]

  the old ones go away and the new ones will be here and that's just like like [TS]

  we do with laptops and desktops right there's no other than like the ones that [TS]

  keep around for education like the non retina macbook pro I mean generally when [TS]

  the retina macbook pro gets updated they don't keep the old one around to it's [TS]

  like these are they replaced them with with no ones and these are the new ones [TS]

  i feel like that's what they're doing with the ipads yeah I feel like it's a [TS]

  sign of at least from Apple's perspective that they see this as it [TS]

  once it's gotten the this year is the year that the ipad became like an [TS]

  established product maybe that's the wrong word but that it's it's kind of [TS]

  grown up to the point where it's and end their you know their the whole push that [TS]

  shoulder gave onstage for is that this is a credible alternative somebody to [TS]

  upgrading for [TS]

  an older pc this can this can be your primary big screen computer other than [TS]

  the phone and I feel like by calling him you know pro that's that this is finally [TS]

  the point where they could say that that's true yeah I i was great so it's a [TS]

  moment it's a moment in the life of the ipad right there was a controversy might [TS]

  be the wrong word but people definitely wrote about it that the chiller when he [TS]

  mentioned that he said that there's 600 million pcs and use that are five plus [TS]

  years old and we think that's really sad and everybody laughed and their the [TS]

  controversy I guess or the complaint about it is that it's a sort of tone [TS]

  deaf to the economic the perfectly logical and sensible lot economic [TS]

  reasons why people might be using six or seven-year-old pcs you know [TS]

  yeah I feel like yeah I i had that thought at the time of like well this is [TS]

  in the category of making some jokes at the expense of PCs and making some jokes [TS]

  from the perspective of being a computer manufacturer who wants you to buy new [TS]

  things but not like but like missing the point especially since legendarily [TS]

  apples computers have been the ones that have lasted a long time right [TS]

  and so to say a five-year-old pc is sad [TS]

  does that make a five-year-old max ad does that make an eight-year-old max add [TS]

  to make John Syracuse's mac pro sad because 20-year old Mac Pro yeah but [TS]

  still kicking so I I don't know it i get what he get what he was trying to say i [TS]

  get what he was trying to say it's like these old PCs are hanging on and they [TS]

  weren't that great to begin with and and and I mean I was if I if I could channel [TS]

  him what I'd say is the people who are using those old PCs a lot of them are [TS]

  people who don't need a pc five years ago this was the only thing they could [TS]

  get to get on the internet like you by a computer to get on the internet and a [TS]

  lot of the stuff of all you're doing like my mom was like this mom had a [TS]

  macbook pro for a long time and now she has an ipad and she was very happy with [TS]

  her ipad air and not having a macbook pro anymore because it was the matter [TS]

  laptops for years [TS]

  sure Mac laptops with her gateway to the internet her gateway to do especially [TS]

  email and you know there are other devices that do that now that are way [TS]

  better for that purpose and and the ipad is that device for her and and so I [TS]

  think that's what Schiller was kind of getting at is this idea that you know [TS]

  these old PCs you bought them because you needed to do things with them that [TS]

  you don't need to use a pc for anymore and you can just dump them get an ipad [TS]

  and you'll be happy but it did I i had that thought of like you know is it sad [TS]

  i mean p other than that pcs are sad in general which i think is part invested [TS]

  with the statement yeah exactly and it's we have to realize that when Apple talks [TS]

  about pcs pc is Apple lingo for windows pc yeah like the mac is a personal [TS]

  computer but the mac is not an apple lingo a pc even though logically it is [TS]

  and that sort of you know a lot of what shoulder was saying is just as much an [TS]

  argument about why somebody doesn't need a mac instead of just using an iPad and [TS]

  it's a little bit you know it it's like Windows Windows PCs become the whipping [TS]

  boy for the ipad marketing but it's it's a little that not uncomfortable but it's [TS]

  a little bit like I I knew with the direction shoulder was going and how [TS]

  hard he was pushing it i knew that wasn't going to be any surprise macbooks [TS]

  at that event because there's no way you could bring macbooks onstage after [TS]

  everything he said about how you don't need a traditional PC yeah he did I i [TS]

  had the thought of like going to be hard to introduce max now just because like [TS]

  laptops are unnecessary [TS]

  also we have laptops right like her well like I'm gonna imagine you know it's the [TS]

  same way that like imagine if instead of unveiling a smaller iPhone if they had [TS]

  unveiled if the iphone SE was bigger iphone like it was five point seven [TS]

  inches the biggest phone we've ever had you don't even need a tablet anymore [TS]

  then you can have iPads come out after that right you know this can replace a [TS]

  tablet for for a lot of people if that was the selling of the iphone then you [TS]

  can't come out afterwards with ipad so I kind of knew that [TS]

  and I I'd I guess the other thing is that i think it's it's just innate to [TS]

  somebody who is a longtime a a person like shoulder to kind of want to crack [TS]

  jokes at windows expense that's to me it was clearly what shoulder intended it [TS]

  was sort of a joke at windows being crappy and older windows even worse [TS]

  right at six or seven-year-old windows machine is even worse than at least a [TS]

  modern faster one and that's kind of sad but it definitely played wrong that mean [TS]

  it was it way more than one person emailed me about it and you know i think [TS]

  it was an unusual misstep for for apple [TS]

  yeah but I mean it's like you see how they made it though because internally [TS]

  it made all the sense in the world that i wouldn't be surprised if he said the [TS]

  exact same thing work forward and rehearsals and nobody it didn't even [TS]

  occur to anybody everybody to saw it as a joke and windows expense any of us who [TS]

  have who know what the Apple lexicon is can look at what was said and be like I [TS]

  get what he was saying they're right but but yes it seems like they maybe didn't [TS]

  have that second thought which is but this is not how it will necessarily be [TS]

  perceived and you know it the the usual suspects like I was waiting for Kyle [TS]

  Williams and ifixit to chime in which he did about it because it's like that's [TS]

  been his thing for a long time that Apple you know Apple once you to have [TS]

  your computer be disposable and you get rid of it and replace it with a new one [TS]

  rather than fixing it yourself and here's somebody who fix their their [TS]

  macbook and i just referred my mom's old macbook pro I put an SSD and imax the [TS]

  ram out and i sold and I was going to give to a friend and then they didn't [TS]

  they bought a new computer so i sold on craigslist to a college student but it [TS]

  was pretty great after after i got the spinning hard drive out of it and put an [TS]

  SSD and max out the ram it was it was a 2009 or something and it was still it's [TS]

  still fine i saw guide starbucks like a week or two ago using the black macbook [TS]

  huh [TS]

  and he he obviously kept it in tremendous shape because it was all it [TS]

  just looked great looked like near mint [TS]

  ah and it was one of those moments where I was like whoa what kind of computers i [TS]

  got using that looks cool and then I realized what it was that was an old [TS]

  black macbook and I was like well have talked to that kind of man he really [TS]

  takes care of that thing but also hats off to apple for making it a design that [TS]

  ten years later still [TS]

  you may think what is that cool thing you get to the hard drive right from the [TS]

  battery bay for that one so you could pull that out and putting an SSD really [TS]

  easily and yeah it's amazing how many of the old computers the big problem with [TS]

  them is just the drives are really slow [TS]

  yeah that's the number one tip is now you know but I get what ya i get with [TS]

  the shoulder is saying and it just it made it difficult to to talk about Max [TS]

  at the event and I I certainly open to him to a little bit of criticism i get [TS]

  what they were saying right here's what I would like I would be interested to [TS]

  know is not how many how many five-year-old pcs our news but how many [TS]

  like 34 year-old iPads are news [TS]

  yeah because i still think I firmly believe that the the quote-unquote [TS]

  problem with iPads for the way that sales have actually declined and to sort [TS]

  of steadily gun down but are still pretty you know compared to the pcs you [TS]

  know it's don't like they still stuff like 10 million of the quarter it's not [TS]

  it's not going away [TS]

  I still think that the fundamental problem is that people get problem from [TS]

  Apple's perspective is that people get an ipad and if they like it [TS]

  what they like about it they still like 3-4 years later they don't they don't [TS]

  see the need to up upgrade until that the thing breaks yeah i agree i think [TS]

  this is the you know that there's that like I forget exactly the details but [TS]

  it's the legend of like you make a product so great that nobody ever needs [TS]

  a replacement you go out of business because right you can't you know you [TS]

  can't do that that's all it although that story is actually the story of [TS]

  every app developer right thank you sell at once and then you can never sell it [TS]

  again because it's free updates for right hand and sales as in in mind and [TS]

  if I'm right then the reason sales were so much higher in the early years up [TS]

  like around 20 million a quarter is because there was the ipad there was [TS]

  nothing like it [TS]

  and so it was an unfulfilled desire on the marketplace like when people were [TS]

  realizing wow I think I could really use one of those things because they didn't [TS]

  have anything like it [TS]

  and so it was on that the sales were unnaturally high compared to [TS]

  where they quote unquote should be yeah and i would love to know that because [TS]

  that's clearly you know the idea is look if you have an old creaky this is what a [TS]

  blessing if you have an old slow pc and you're looking to buy a new thing you [TS]

  should look at this look at this ipad pro this is you know it it's the future [TS]

  of computing it has everything you need and it does these other it's better in [TS]

  so many ways and I think that they that kind of mine apply to iPads it might be [TS]

  like look you think you your ipad still get enough but the new ones we've done [TS]

  so much in the last four years and this is so much lighter and it's got a stereo [TS]

  sound and a better display I think that it's you know it they've got to start [TS]

  marketing it towards you know people who have old ipod and I feel like they're [TS]

  gonna sell a lot of the of the little iPad pro because that is the mainstream [TS]

  sighs and maybe not to people who already have an ipad air 2 / probably to [TS]

  some of them to put two older iPads you know it's newer and lighter it's got the [TS]

  pencil support the pencil on that size is going to be big for a lot of people [TS]

  and so so I feel like that that is the product that we've been sort of waiting [TS]

  for for the last year [TS]

  oh you know what's the next 10 inch iPad and and what features it going to have [TS]

  and it's pretty impressive set of features that it's got so I feel like [TS]

  they are going to whether it's going to make a difference in terms of the ipads [TS]

  overall like sales decline it who knows but i do feel like that it will be [TS]

  enough to motivate a bunch of people to to upgrade their old iPads and they [TS]

  haven't had any motivation for a year and a half so one of the things that [TS]

  really interested me about it was it wasn't just a shrunk down 12-inch are [TS]

  12.9 inch iPad pro it actually it it gained a little in terms of the display [TS]

  and the camera has a superior camera and a better display and it lost a little in [TS]

  that it doesn't have the the new super fancy usb3 lightning port and I don't [TS]

  think there's anything else is missing and I could be wrong but I find that you [TS]

  know so it's on the plus side it's a superior I patent [TS]

  terms of the display and having the true tone technology and the camera which is [TS]

  again like the on the iphone SE it's the success camera assembly your camera [TS]

  system including the bump [TS]

  yeah and on the Lightning it doesn't have USB 3 so that's interesting to me [TS]

  because I I'm not even quite sure how that came about [TS]

  it's like you would think it would have it would I can see how it's better in [TS]

  some ways but I'm surprised it doesn't have USB 3 [TS]

  yeah i was talking to christina warren about this the other day and I gave her [TS]

  this like scenarios like if I mr. money bags and I walk into an apple store and [TS]

  I say probably provide me your finest ipad with all of the greatest features [TS]

  hmm they they can't because some of them around the ipad pro and some of them [TS]

  around or some of them are ansari the the big ipad pro and some of them were [TS]

  on the small ipad pro right and it's just a weird combination of them that [TS]

  that you know true tone you want the true tone get the small one you want [TS]

  usb3 transfer speeds get the big one that's an interesting you want a good [TS]

  camera get the small one [TS]

  all right you want the end it's got the color you want the same color gamut as [TS]

  the modern like that the 2015 model imax read my max that's on the small one not [TS]

  the big one right [TS]

  I don't know kind of you know i'm assuming it'll work itself out [TS]

  eventually you know six cherelle or a year from now but it's an interesting [TS]

  state of affairs i can't help but think it probably is [TS]

  it's probably just comes down to component pricing i'm guessing he added [TS]

  that they wanted to I guess right so that big ipad pro is is at you know [TS]

  starts at a much higher price and this one starts at five ninety-nine and I [TS]

  guess because the display is smaller they can afford to make it better [TS]

  I don't know i'm just guessing that whatever complicated math goes into [TS]

  figuring out how you know how do we make it so we can sell this at 599 with the [TS]

  margins we want that usb3 didn't make the cut [TS]

  yeah yeah it's it's a it's a if provided guess it's a weird combination of what [TS]

  price but what what features do we omit from the smaller the smaller model [TS]

  because we just don't have the margins for it and what new innovations do we [TS]

  have [TS]

  that we can put in a brand-new product that wasn't available six months ago and [TS]

  this is what you get is you get their product that some features removed [TS]

  because you want to hold the line on margins but we came up with this true [TS]

  tone thing and it wasn't ready for the the the big ipad pro but it's ready now [TS]

  so let's ship it in there and get and get something new in there [TS]

  this is why I ideally you don't ship your product line in alternating cycles [TS]

  like this right ideally you say here are all the new iPad pro so I cure all the [TS]

  new retina MacBook Pros you do it once and then you can explain while the 15 [TS]

  has some things of 13 dozen right [TS]

  like when I i had 11 chair right in the 11th year doesn't have a card reader for [TS]

  example right all right [TS]

  it just it doesn't but that's ok but if the 11 incher was out of sync with the [TS]

  13-inch air and got the new features first but also black some old features [TS]

  because the small one doesn't get those you'd be where we are with the ipad pro [TS]

  where they're just kind of out of step and that's a question about you know are [TS]

  they gonna be in step now is every spring or we going to get new iPad pro [TS]

  models is that how it's gonna work [TS]

  I don't know yeah I wonder or maybe because now it's immature like I said [TS]

  like mature like in the way that the macbook pros armature maybe they come [TS]

  out on a ipad come out on a there were when you're ready we will release some [TS]

  schedule you know that there is no like there's no real pattern to when we [TS]

  expect new macbooks they you know we get rumors of when they're coming out and [TS]

  people who pay attention to intel's you know chip pipeline can estimate you know [TS]

  well you know this chipset is coming out soon or this one is delayed so new [TS]

  macbooks are probably delayed but it's there's no like it's not like with the [TS]

  iphone were you know that it's going to be like a Tuesday and sip middle of sep [TS]

  tember right here's the fierce of fascinating fact and I cannot explain it [TS]

  so the camera bump [TS]

  I hate camera bumps or really do i know i have I to an irrational degree really [TS]

  hate the camera bump on the iphone 6 and success really really hate it i just [TS]

  every time I might and I might thumb just goes to it like like rubbing like a [TS]

  pimple on your on your other hand or like playing with a warrant or something [TS]

  another advantage of sticking it in a case is that I don't have that i didn't [TS]

  realize i really it's the closest it that's the main reason that I almost [TS]

  carried my success in and day even spent like $MONEY a month with it in a cases [TS]

  for exactly that reason because it alleviated the bump so the ipad has the [TS]

  bump the ipad new iPad pro but when you put it on a tabletop it does not wiggle [TS]

  it doesn't wobble [TS]

  I don't understand how this is possible i don't i know and Matthew panza Reno [TS]

  tweeted about it and people saying that he's full of shit and you know saying [TS]

  you're lying I'd that's impossible and he like shot a video and it's like you [TS]

  lay it on a flat table and it doesn't wobble I don't I i guess it [TS]

  I don't understand I'm sure it has something to do with the curvature of [TS]

  the earth [TS]

  I my guess is that there's something you know you've got it so much larger item [TS]

  then write the this much larger surface in the iphone so it probably has [TS]

  something to do with the angle of the lift of it being reduced by that amount [TS]

  of distance right so that it's it's um it's imperceptible compared to something [TS]

  that's very because if you had something that was really small and there was like [TS]

  a bump on one side and maybe might the the the angle would be greater [TS]

  maybe my dining room table it isn't perfectly flat I don't know it could be [TS]

  its it but and so somebody out there right now to return the earth i'm [TS]

  telling you somebody out of their physics man it might wobble on [TS]

  somebody's table and I'd be interested to hear from anybody if if they get it [TS]

  and it does wobble but I if you're concerned about the camera bump is that [TS]

  when you lay it flat on the table it's gonna wobble I'm telling you it doesn't [TS]

  so it's got that going for it but that's good because that would be a disaster if [TS]

  that was the case like hey it's got the Apple pencil you can draw on and now lay [TS]

  it on a table and nope that would be awful [TS]

  otherwise I don't you know I don't know what to do what else to say about it you [TS]

  know the ipad pro it's got the pencil so it's so when when uh when they announced [TS]

  the true tone feature somebody in the audience went huh and phil schiller went [TS]

  on somebody knows what I'm talking that was me and afterward you said it was you [TS]

  i swear to god that was everybody not surprised I'm so not surprised i don't [TS]

  think that's quite the noise i made but I did I did [TS]

  probably reacted I audibly reacted because to me it's like the next step up [TS]

  from retina like and I wanted to read the screens you know my entire life so I [TS]

  can no longer see the pixels because clearly that's the way it should be but [TS]

  to do i adjust for color temperature is the next you know it something I've [TS]

  thought of for as long as I've been using computers because I've noticed but [TS]

  boy at nighttime when you have incandescent lights on boy the white [TS]

  doesn't look like white anyway it looks to wait or something you know that it's [TS]

  not like paper right well it's not it's not white balancing like you know our [TS]

  eyes white balance two men match the temperature of the light but the the . [TS]

  the device doesn't know right it's just one set to whatever color temperature is [TS]

  set to and that's what you get [TS]

  right it's a good it's a great idea i want to see it in practice right i want [TS]

  to go through that and see whether this is something that I really you know I [TS]

  really noticed or not but I like I really like the idea of it and like [TS]

  Craig Hockenberry was saying this is there's a lot of color management [TS]

  business that's happening on on your iPad these days and and for any of us [TS]

  from the old sort of desktop publishing days the idea that you've got really [TS]

  interesting things happening with color on these devices is a really great i was [TS]

  talking to want to talk to Glen fleischmann i was on the macro podcast [TS]

  500 and we were talking about this and and he mentioned that this is one of [TS]

  those moments where you kind of wish that Bruce Fraser was still around [TS]

  because he would love he would love this he was a he he passed away a few years [TS]

  ago but he was a color management like God basically I learned so much from [TS]

  that guy about how can human the brain perceives color and all of this stuff [TS]

  and it's really interesting to see Apple go down this path where it's like you [TS]

  know we all just took for granted that the white point of your display was what [TS]

  it was [TS]

  remember when you used to have to calibrate it manually oh yeah like I [TS]

  have cross your eyes and adjust this thing that'll you get the rack amma yeah [TS]

  oh yeah I'm and then they make like things with suction cups that you stick [TS]

  on my screen and then it would put something on it and it would read what [TS]

  the light was off of it and we know how to calibrate the display so that it [TS]

  would get an app that the color that would be the same as the color that you [TS]

  would print and the same as the color that would come [TS]

  out on the offset press when you print your catalog all of that you know just [TS]

  so much goes into that and and it's a little bit like there's like memory [TS]

  color this idea that that you it's almost like an optical illusion is your [TS]

  brain your brain knows what colors things are so it will actually adjust [TS]

  what you see to be the color that it isn't like if you see an apple and it's [TS]

  red but it's the wrong read your brain like Rex it onto it and makes it the [TS]

  right red and that's not what you're seeing but it's what you think you're [TS]

  seeing so there's so much in here and so for Apple to like dip their toe in and [TS]

  be like yeah we're gonna we're gonna work on color now or this is the next [TS]

  frontier for us is a it's really interesting beyond just the the true [TS]

  tone feature [TS]

  yeah it's I haven't spent I i have the ipad pro never have a review unit of it [TS]

  I haven't spent so far haven't I spent most of my time with the iphone not the [TS]

  ipad so i've i've tinkered with it but not a diamond we spent that much more [TS]

  time with the really looking at the at the nights are not a chip that the true [TS]

  tone then you did it [TS]

  the event really it but it's it is nice [TS]

  it definitely it is in its not a gimmick it's in a I totally believe shoulder [TS]

  that once you get used to it you wanted on all your devices i think it's going [TS]

  to have a better effect than the than the nite chef thing I think then I think [TS]

  night shift is is it a gimmick [TS]

  I mean if there's people out there listen who really do feel like they get [TS]

  a better night's sleep but then good [TS]

  I I you know I wish everybody a good night's sleep but to me it seems like a [TS]

  gimmick [TS]

  yeah it's um I think it's fine but I I when I think about true tone I think [TS]

  what what the best benefit of night shift is solved by true tone there that [TS]

  night shift i use night shift i've been using the 93 beta for awhile on my iPad [TS]

  pro because the the big ipad pro had the 9.9 point2 was working on the guide [TS]

  press i've been using the beta for a while and so I had night shift and I [TS]

  find myself using it a lot at night and in the early morning when I've got [TS]

  incandescent lights and the the super blue white color temperature of the of [TS]

  the display is like totally out of whack with my surroundings [TS]

  well the night shift can do that but true tone does that true tone does that [TS]

  solve that same problem where the white that you're seeing on your screen is in [TS]

  context with the rest of your environment and when you do that [TS]

  I feel like you've got the you've got most of the problem solve that for me [TS]

  like I don't even need night shift if I've got a device that will just make my [TS]

  ipad screen warm when i'm in the warm dark light of my living room at ten at [TS]

  night it could just be yeah I it's to me it's just making it look better [TS]

  it's not about magically get you know that this solves the problem of getting [TS]

  a good night's sleep again if i could be wrong [TS]

  I don't know but I thought even the way Apple spoke about night shift on stage [TS]

  was sort of like acknowledging that this is junk science that or at least the [TS]

  science is this quote-unquote science behind it as a little questionable there [TS]

  like some people say that you get a better night's sleep i think that the [TS]

  problem and I i totally believe that there's a problem there I just think the [TS]

  problem is staring at glowing screens . and that color shifting it isn't solving [TS]

  the problem have you might have [TS]

  do you see Glenn's piece on macworld no I don't think I did it is new as we [TS]

  record this i think it was today at it when I definitely didn't see it he [TS]

  doesn't hot heat to actually talk to some people who are researchers in this [TS]

  field and i'm sure people are going to be skeptical and they're gonna they're [TS]

  gonna try to debate him on this but what Glenn basically said is it's not if it [TS]

  helps you if you feel it helps you great but there's not a lot of science to [TS]

  suggest that at the levels where Apple is doing this where they're still [TS]

  keeping some blue in there so it's so it's just less it's it's it's an issue [TS]

  brightness and the fact that they're not cutting all the blue out because you cut [TS]

  all the blue out it would look really bad like you wouldn't want to use it and [TS]

  so they're keeping some of it in there i think it's okay i think it looks bad [TS]

  with as much Blues are taking out investor is right i don't like it [TS]

  see so that's the so what his point is you know yeah it's it your brightness is [TS]

  a big factor in it too and and how much does this affect the melatonin in your [TS]

  brain and I I think everybody would say that yet not having bright glowing [TS]

  screens is going to help you sleep better but having a slightly less bright [TS]

  slightly less blue glowing screen that you're looking at it may it may not help [TS]

  enough to override the fact that you're watching that screen right I think you [TS]

  do kind of kidding yourself [TS]

  yeah you know maybe the answers you know read a book better not turn off the TV [TS]

  and give yourself an hour where you're just reading a book or something like [TS]

  that right get a subscription to the paper edition of your favorite magazine [TS]

  yeah I want to talk a little bit about Garry Shandling I'm just assuming that [TS]

  you were a Shandling fan [TS]

  yeah I didn't see as much I I never had premium cable so i came to a lot of it [TS]

  late like I watched the garish it's Garry Shandling show on Fox when they [TS]

  cut it up and put it on Fox could I never had one kid I we didn't have cable [TS]

  so I certainly don't have showtime and then Larry Sanders also it was like a [TS]

  sporadic thing where they were getting to get rerun somewhere else I saw them [TS]

  but I saw them like late i was never right like in on it but also as when we [TS]

  talked about as a as a late-night talk-show person I just remember him [TS]

  from all of his great guest bits and guest host bits on The Tonight Show and [TS]

  on letterman right well before we talk about channeling let's don't think our [TS]

  fourth and final sponsor and it's a good friend of mail route ma I LRO ute IT [TS]

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  owns the domain name that you get email through if you're in charge of the email [TS]

  for a domain mail route is something you really want to look at who can you trust [TS]

  to do the job and stick around mail route these guys and mail route this is [TS]

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  there's mail route is a company that hosts email for you so you keep the mail [TS]

  server you already have what you do is you change your MX records for your [TS]

  domain name too . through mail route first and it's just like a screen email [TS]

  goes to them and then from mail route it goes on to [TS]

  your existing regular mail server except without any of the span without any of [TS]

  the junk you can set it up and just have it go through and as soon as the MX [TS]

  records update it just works and that's it you're done you don't even have to [TS]

  touch it but if you want to if you want to nerd out and customize it they have [TS]

  an API that can you could program it you can do all sorts of super nerdy stuff i [TS]

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  the spam filtering that they do is as good as any that I've seen [TS]

  I you know some of my domains are go through google and google has great spam [TS]

  filtering ah i think apple spam filtering has gotten a lot better with [TS]

  mac.com over the years mail route spam filtering is just as as good as it can [TS]

  get almost no false positives and almost in all the junk goes through just it's [TS]

  it's like the old days of email before spam was invented [TS]

  it's an amazing they've also got and I think this is key they've got great [TS]

  interface for going through and checking did you know if you need to check to see [TS]

  if something was erroneously applied to spam or something like that you can [TS]

  still get it it's not like that spam what they call span just gets flushed [TS]

  away [TS]

  could not be better they have price-matching from mcafee and MX logic [TS]

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  route dotnet and just ask questions and and see if it's for you and use that [TS]

  email wrapped outnet sighs tts you get ten percent off for the lifetime of your [TS]

  account lifetime so if you're using them 10 years from now you'll save your still [TS]

  be saving ten ten percent so my thanks to them [TS]

  the Shandling thing off Jason it it i feel like this is I feel like this is [TS]

  maybe like the rest of my life is all of a sudden now people who start dying are [TS]

  like people who I cannot believe that they've died and like a heart attack at [TS]

  66 isn't exactly old age but it is sort of you know it's the sort of thing that [TS]

  when i was a kid and they somebody famous person died of a heart attack at [TS]

  66 as a kid I thought well that's you know that's what happens when you get [TS]

  old sometimes people have heart attacks and I I i don't know if it's like [TS]

  Shannon's to close in age to me though it's like it just seems like I'm at the [TS]

  age now where 66 is tragically young [TS]

  yeah well I mean that was what he and Jerry Seinfeld talked about in that [TS]

  comedians in cars getting coffee right is like the the only time they ever [TS]

  referred as it being in your sixties is as so young is when you die in existence [TS]

  but its true like and some of it is the older you get the more you push off like [TS]

  old age right it's like now 40 is known that 50s and 60s milk but also just our [TS]

  human lifespans are increasing right and and our working lives are increasing and [TS]

  so what was a retiree maybe when we were kids is now a more active kind of age [TS]

  today so you look at him being 66 and yeah I guess this is how life is going [TS]

  to be even okay as you get older all these people that you love our are dying [TS]

  but but yeah to just too young I was I didn't have showtime either i did have [TS]

  cable though so I was exposed to the it's Garry Shandling show on Fox [TS]

  yea which was slightly edited I guess there were no commercials and some [TS]

  whatever like if their words are nudity or whatever but yeah me too i but i just [TS]

  it it spoke to me in a way that the only other person you know when you and I [TS]

  have spoken at length about our mutual love for David Letterman it spoke to me [TS]

  in a way that only Letterman did in the way that he was playing with the form of [TS]

  TP and it's it a couple of the obituaries meant mentioned it that he [TS]

  was just a master of television and a way that like I don't know if you ever [TS]

  considered you know like having a film career although he did have it was the [TS]

  the senator in the iron man 2 yeah write it in a way that like the basic gist of [TS]

  show business was always at least in our lifetimes you know in the late 20th [TS]

  century was TV was the B team in the eighth in feature films are the a-team [TS]

  you know that's what you aspire to do and its handling is a guy who clearly i [TS]

  mean Letterman to because remember these to be talking about Letterman doing [TS]

  movies and disney you know wanted to [TS]

  who is the CEO of disney oh I michael eisner michael eisner will really wanted [TS]

  to sign Letterman to a movie deal and letters like have you ever seen you know [TS]

  i'm a terrible actor you don't want to do this and you're like just let us give [TS]

  you the money we'll just let it and then like they dug up like Letterman's [TS]

  audition for airplane and neither was like holy shit you're right you're [TS]

  terrible absolutely terrible [TS]

  yeah ceilings a guy who clearly did [TS]

  it's like is genius was specific to TV it's quitted it wouldn't have had any [TS]

  relevance to the movies it was TV as TV not TV as movies on a small screen that [TS]

  the nature of television was such that it just happened [TS]

  he mastered it in a way that it it just blew me away as a kid was like this is a [TS]

  guy who totally gets it like Letterman he was present in this medium while he [TS]

  was like poking at all the all the edges of it and like I mean it's Garry [TS]

  Shandling show broke my brain because I it was a show that new was a TV show and [TS]

  characters knew their characters on the TV show that's what am I seeing here [TS]

  right as a kid as a whatever 15 16 year-old kid is just battling and [TS]

  brilliant and in the same way the leatherman was taking all of the as [TS]

  we've talked about before all the conventions of talk shows and [TS]

  questioning why any of them existed right so it also really just blows my [TS]

  mind that he did it twice in quick succession where he had the it's Garry [TS]

  Shandling show which which was this sitcom sitcom you know that the sitcom [TS]

  us sitcom that's ever existed wacky neighbor the platonic friendship with [TS]

  the [TS]

  the woman all of these tropes of the modern sitcom and he just blew them all [TS]

  away by by opening up the fourth wall and talking to the camera and talking to [TS]

  the audience and having the audience throw things at the characters and then [TS]

  two years later coming back with another like meta i mean that's that's the thing [TS]

  is the master of like this meta aspect of TV and doing meta in a totally [TS]

  opposite way where there's no breaking down of the fourth wall but there is [TS]

  this weird fake talk show within the show that looked as it looked more like [TS]

  The Tonight Show than the tonight show did huh well he hosted it tonight show [TS]

  he was like before before Jay Leno became the guest host here at 44 years [TS]

  he was like the permanent guest host of The Tonight Show he would fill in for [TS]

  Johnny right a lot and I remember seeing him fill in for Johnny a lot and and so [TS]

  he knew that was the fascinating thing about layer at the Larry Sanders Show is [TS]

  that the people who did that especially Garry Shandling he knew exactly how [TS]

  those shows worked in New the he knew the hosts he had been in consideration [TS]

  for the jobs right I believe he was considered for to be David Letterman's [TS]

  replacement at one point [TS]

  yeah um yeah we had the offer he was offered it and turned it down [TS]

  I'm not quite sure if he was ever I i think that he had actually sort of [TS]

  stepped away from wanting to dos you know do it full time so that he was [TS]

  never really like into consideration like at the point where they needed to [TS]

  replace Johnny he was already like I'm out of it but I think you're exactly [TS]

  right though that in the late eighties you know he was absolutely in [TS]

  consideration [TS]

  yeah and and so he had all of that knowledge right he was he was an insider [TS]

  this was not this is not somebody like Aaron Sorkin doing studio 60 on the [TS]

  Sunset Strip where he had sort of like a glancing blow at this at this uh at this [TS]

  industry but really was kind of imagining a fantasy version of it this [TS]

  larry sanders was people who understood how the TV industry work and haven't [TS]

  talked just worked making a show that was Insider E on one level but also [TS]

  kind of like at times just a scabrous commentary and satire of of the not just [TS]

  the show but the gas right and and it was in it you see the roots of so many [TS]

  things it's a the the cringe comedy of things like an office come from this [TS]

  your enthusiasm absolutely up while I mean it very Garry Shandling and Jerry [TS]

  Seinfeld really did they did the shows across the lot from each other they went [TS]

  and visited in that community with cars getting coffee episode and so so it i [TS]

  think they influence each other for free for seinfeld definitely Richard they [TS]

  said that all of his stuff is just super influenced by Garry Shandling and then [TS]

  something like 30 rock is another good example where 30 rock is absolutely you [TS]

  know would not exist for Larry Sanders right and took it you know and it [TS]

  totally did in her own way and and went like super fast pace and joke joke joke [TS]

  joke which is you know the density of jokes on 30 rock just blows me away [TS]

  yeah but you're right though it's you know it's it all sort of those itself [TS]

  back to to Larry Sanders it's and it's amazing to me that he did those two [TS]

  shows like almost back to back guys [TS]

  yeah it'sit's the the Hall of Fame kind of thing where it's like those are Larry [TS]

  Sanders Show is like in the hall of fame and and you could make the argument for [TS]

  for the fritz Garry Shandling show two before that the idea that that when it's [TS]

  Garry Shandling she was going off the air that that would be a footnote would [TS]

  seem impossible and yet the next project was the thing that just kind of blew [TS]

  everybody away [TS]

  I just remember him as a he was a really great stand-up i just remember how good [TS]

  he was a stand-up on the Letterman Show especially that and you could tell you [TS]

  could tell when Letterman when it was somebody who he liked like you could [TS]

  tell they would you bring them over afterward they would talk and they do [TS]

  more comedy in the end and Chandler was definitely in that list like he was he [TS]

  was i read a few obituaries that said that he was definitely like a comedians [TS]

  comedians like they all they all just were in awe of how good he was as a [TS]

  medium and he never really did anything after the Larry Sanders Show I mean I'm [TS]

  you know you mean other than like you know guest appearances here and [TS]

  everybody never had a major project but by all accounts that have read [TS]

  especially I've read it before [TS]

  but and now that you know he's dead and it's all coming out but it really it's [TS]

  just almost universal that he was very generous and giving to anybody you know [TS]

  the up-and-comers like the Judd Apatow's and and the people who are in there I'm [TS]

  right now in comedy that he really was you know they could come to him with [TS]

  like hey I'm working you know here's my script and i'm stuck here do you have [TS]

  any ideas and and would help him out in an industry that's notorious for having [TS]

  you know being filled with personalities that are let's say left less than [TS]

  generous [TS]

  yeah exactly that and I think it's people like people actually like liked [TS]

  him and thought he was a good guy [TS]

  I think it's very telling that you never hear that about like Jay Leno nobody [TS]

  ever says butthead jay leno really knows how to help help out and up and cover [TS]

  you know and the Chevy Chase everybody a Chevy Chase [TS]

  nobody ever says that or nobody ever says boy it's a real shame that [TS]

  something seems to be wrong with gypsy it's not because i get i get that yeah I [TS]

  don't know I I think about that sometimes like if you're if you if [TS]

  you're one of these TV stars who has a huge hit and I think in case Larry [TS]

  Sanders he owned a big piece of it to like this was before HBO made the deal [TS]

  like it's not on HBO they're actually bringing it back to the HBO [TS]

  yeah song service but it went off at because back in those days HBO didn't [TS]

  buy like all rights to everything in perpetuity like they do now but I'm so [TS]

  you make all this money just insane TV money for being on a show for seven [TS]

  years and he had another six years show before that and I I always wanted like [TS]

  what do you do some people big stars and big successes they they react in [TS]

  different ways some people try to recapture it other people just kind of [TS]

  do passion projects other people just like i don't i don't care i'm gonna I [TS]

  mean I think Bill Murray is sort of in this catalog category to wear like he [TS]

  wants to work when he's moved to work like when he finds something that for [TS]

  whatever reason interest him and he doesn't need to work right and and [TS]

  obviously for him he's not he's not so obsessed with with keeping busy that he [TS]

  always has to have a project he's kinda okay and I think Garry Shandling was [TS]

  kinda like that where he would pop in on the occasional thing like anything like [TS]

  I would love to know the story of why he chose to do the Marvel movies [TS]

  was the Captain America and Iron Man movies like he was in a couple the [TS]

  senator is kind of a rotten senator villain character right well I'm no [TS]

  swimming it's a bit of a spoiler but it ends up he's a Hydra yeah you thought [TS]

  he's a bad guy I mean he said he's a he's a correct senator Howard why did he [TS]

  decide that it was probably something like he knew somebody who was involved [TS]

  and thought it would be fun and i had to guess I don't know the story but if i [TS]

  had to guess I'll bet he was pet friends with jon favreau that could be because I [TS]

  think jon favreau is I mean he's more of a foot is a filmmaker not really a comic [TS]

  but I think he's in with you know I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the [TS]

  same pack of guys you know like like Judd Apatow her pals i'll bet it's the [TS]

  Jon Favreau and so it looks to me like after he finished he Larry Sanders he [TS]

  was pretty much happy to just kind of mess around when he wanted to and not [TS]

  worry about it otherwise and you know when you've got I think that's a [TS]

  question that most of us will never have to deal with in our life but it but is [TS]

  that question of like if you won the lottery or something you created became [TS]

  a wild success and you literally didn't have to work again what would you do [TS]

  and would you just go to an island and sit out in the Sun all day or would you [TS]

  work because you want to work and pretend that you don't have that money [TS]

  or would you kind of find a way to compromise where you know you weren't [TS]

  gonna work too hard but you'd be you want to come to keep in the game a [TS]

  little bit you know haha yeah you know and just touch on one other thing that [TS]

  you put the HBO deal it's a gig in addition to the fact that the Larry [TS]

  Sanders Show in and of itself stands up as a tremendous body of work I've [TS]

  watched the whole thing through at least three times at least three [TS]

  well now that he's dead I think I'm them it's like to do it again I'm going to do [TS]

  it once that's on HBO [TS]

  yeah i'm gonna wait for it to be on HBO [TS]

  I are I say three times but i think a lot of the time I've done a special was [TS]

  originally iike you couldn't stream it so it's like you either caught it or you [TS]

  didn't [TS]

  and so you know i may not have hit I was like watching it when i was home when it [TS]

  was on but I you know I might missed episodes and at least once those in the [TS]

  digital era I've watched the whole thing but it's the fact that it even that [TS]

  they're even our shows that we think of HBO is a network that has shows is in [TS]

  large part driven by their originated by [TS]

  The Larry Sanders Show like that's what we think of HBO now primarily but at the [TS]

  time HBO is where you went to watch movies [TS]

  yeah and then sometimes they have shows but a lot of their shows where things [TS]

  like Bryant Gumbel sports thing they weren't like a original the fiction you [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah they're their strategy has changed pretty dramatically and that's when n is [TS]

  part of that made they were they locked up all the writes like a pretty they [TS]

  produce all their own shows they own the rights to them they're all you know [TS]

  that's why the wire is on HBO like that it will always be on HBO in the sopranos [TS]

  and six exactor exactly so Larry Sanders wasn't predates that time but they is [TS]

  the school like before he died [TS]

  they were Garry Shandling had made a deal with HBO to bring Larry Sanders [TS]

  back onto HBO and onto HBO streaming so it will get there eventually and then I [TS]

  it's a shame that they can't I hope they're right like rushing to get it on [TS]

  because I think we would all love to go back and watch that stuff again [TS]

  ya feel better about it well the other . you know any other genius aspect to it [TS]

  was that he had the foresight a time when stand-up comedians that the goal [TS]

  was to get a network sitcom his goal he saw like past that he was like if I can [TS]

  you know I can do something on Showtime or HBO that you can't do on the [TS]

  network's you know like I think it was less about the money and the fame and a [TS]

  little bit more about the not to be pretentious but the artistic integrity [TS]

  you know of doing something that you couldn't get on network TV and avoiding [TS]

  the you know the that the annoyance of the commercial interruptions [TS]

  I mean I know he did have it you know he let the show The One Show be on fox it [TS]

  which was I don't let the backstory is on that but but especially with Larry [TS]

  Sanders that he saw that you know it wasn't like well I can't get a network [TS]

  show but I'll you know do an HBO show it's like clearly he saw HBO is a way to [TS]

  do something that he couldn't do on it on a network [TS]

  yeah yeah it's a it's a it's said and and for the people who know him it's you [TS]

  know it's really tragic for the rest of us the good thing to come out of [TS]

  something terrible like this is I do really i like that so many people have [TS]

  come out to appreciate his talent and his work because you know that's I think [TS]

  that's all that any of us could ask for is is when we go that somebody says wow [TS]

  that that I like that person they did a great job that they were brilliant i'm [TS]

  gonna miss them and I definitely feel that way about about handling and and [TS]

  also celebrating his work i mean that's that's why I want that stuff back on HBO [TS]

  Go is that i wanna i wanna go back and appreciate his work i did watch that [TS]

  comedians in cars getting coffee again right uh yesterday for the same thing [TS]

  it's like let me know but now that he's he's gone [TS]

  you know it's worth reminding ourselves how how great he was when he was here [TS]

  yeah alright Jason thank you so much for your generous use of your time i'm happy [TS]

  to is always always enjoy having you on the show always enjoy your insight i [TS]

  won't see you again until probably WC yeah i know we always run into each [TS]

  other at these weird weird advanced one of these days i'll actually just sort of [TS]

  be in Philadelphia for no reason to say hey John but uh but yeah it was good to [TS]

  see this week too [TS]

  yeah thnkx all sponsors and you can get as much Jason's now as you would ever [TS]

  want on six colors . com six colors . stay with you could even put you in it [TS]

  if you're in Canada or the UK [TS]

  yeah you do any other podcasts now not really a podcasting is a you can find [TS]

  many podcast by me at the uncomfortable calm and it really . FM I i did the math [TS]

  the other day and I don't want to tell you what I realized how many podcasts i [TS]

  do in a week on average it's too many is the answer to many but it you've gotten [TS]

  good at it though [TS]

  well this week we got the Atlantic did this big feature about what a robot is [TS]

  and the quotes from John Syracuse's and my podcast robot or not at length and I [TS]

  just thought you know I'm gonna be really mad if the thing that I am [TS]

  number four is robot or not just like not my life's work so hey let me ask you [TS]

  liam is really a robot [TS]

  you got a circus i would say i would say probably not because it's more like a [TS]

  certain uses definition of robot is very narrow which is that it could sort of [TS]

  have some it's got sort of do some self evaluation itself so like a Roomba you [TS]

  just press the button and it kind of figures out what to do but he doesn't [TS]

  think like a an automotive assembly line robot is really a robot he thinks it's [TS]

  just programmed equipment and right so he would say he would say no but he is a [TS]

  very strict robot definer [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  yeah [TS]