The Talk Show

148: ‘Occupy Portland’, With Special Guest John Moltz

 

  think about setting up a business unlocking iphones it's easy i hear ya [TS]

  wow that's going nuts though you know it's like and I kind of feel like a kind [TS]

  of call bit where it's like I mean I don't think this is very hard to it was [TS]

  like I'm the only one you know made it unique observation but that it it it's [TS]

  far from a slam-dunk because it's largely at least so far being tried in [TS]

  the court of public opinion not in the corner [TS]

  except for today yeah so it's is actually like late-breaking news [TS]

  can you explain that I think you're probably better form that i am well now [TS]

  I wouldn't say that in another case not the one that is really at the forefront [TS]

  of all this [TS]

  a federal judge in brooklyn today rolled at the government could not force Apple [TS]

  to unlock a phone and iphone and it was I guess that they did i do it again and [TS]

  it was this publicized also we know that this case was coming or or just drop out [TS]

  of the thin air [TS]

  well there were I mean they had talked about several other cases in which the [TS]

  you know not necessarily the FBI but other you know like district attorneys [TS]

  and things and you know other jurisdictions they were trying to get [TS]

  Apple to unlock phones in order to get information for not necessarily [TS]

  terrorism-related cases but just like you know racketeering drugs what I mean [TS]

  like a whole bunch of the right and so this one this new york case so let's [TS]

  just call it by the location i will say the new york this is the new york case [TS]

  and the other ones the sand bernhard Bernardino's right case so that this is [TS]

  different and it's one of the ways it's different is it a drug case so it's not [TS]

  terrorism which doesn't really shouldn't really change the law but it absolutely [TS]

  changed changes the amount of radioactive publicity [TS]

  around this you know like use aid Brad there's a guy in Brooklyn is up on drug [TS]

  charges and everybody is like oh ok but it's it it's tuesday and then you say a [TS]

  bunch of a Muslim couple committed an act of terrorism and and shot up 14 [TS]

  killed 14 people and shot up 22 others and yes terrorism and then people are [TS]

  you know and again i'm gonna be making fun of it it's it's a natural reaction [TS]

  it is it that's shocking and it's it is you know you know it and I mean in this [TS]

  far as i know in this drug case nobody nobody was killed [TS]

  I mean you know I mean maybe somebody was killed in relation to this game [TS]

  however that defendant is dealing that I don't actually know but you know it [TS]

  certainly wasn't a case where 14 people right but in terms of the legal question [TS]

  of whether the united states federal law as it stands today I can have you can [TS]

  result in the Department of Justice getting a court order to force Apple or [TS]

  any other company to write new code for their devices to comply with the law [TS]

  I don't think it's any different there's nothing magical about terrorism that's [TS]

  different than drugs in terms of can Apple be compelled to do this and the [TS]

  judge in this case this was his name or James orenstein seems I didn't read his [TS]

  order at it it's too late braking is a 50-page thing but there are some [TS]

  highlights that came out he really seemed to rip the feds we're going to [TS]

  build it but after what's the one that matter friend Matthew pans or end of the [TS]

  show Matthew pans or end of the show I mean all the stuff gets down to this [TS]

  this some all writs aggregate which we have become familiar with that's what [TS]

  you know we love you know since we've done our crash course as constitutional [TS]

  law experts we laugh I one of the things I've seen and I do appreciate I [TS]

  appreciate that there are people who feel otherwise [TS]

  and you know I it seems to me like most people who read during fire bombs into [TS]

  the show I thought before I'd like the last episode do it down while I thought [TS]

  that most people probably agreed with [TS]

  what I think and judging from the feedback I've seen they do but clearly [TS]

  not everybody does and i'll even admit that that's you know I don't agree but [TS]

  did you know it's nice to have a reasonable disagreement with people [TS]

  about politics [TS]

  um that you don't know this isn't this isn't the world we want to live and we [TS]

  really should have something where you know that the cops can get into a phone [TS]

  if they need to [TS]

  ok but the question of whether this all writs Act is the law that should this [TS]

  should be based on to me even if you think that the yet law enforcement [TS]

  should have some kind of technical way to get a phone if they really need to [TS]

  they re I really feel like it's almost on it you can't debate that day they [TS]

  should try to get a new law passed because the laws as they stand it [TS]

  there's just no way this to get there from here yeah [TS]

  did you read the all writs actress no I did it's actually it's very short [TS]

  it's extremely short well I think that's part of the problem whichever yeah it's [TS]

  very short and it's you know it was written in 1789 so there are you know [TS]

  it's not exist but it's not dense you know I mean the plain meaning of it [TS]

  especially when you read but other people say about it you know people who [TS]

  are more expert in constitutional law if they say that the whole point of the all [TS]

  writs Act was this was right at the beginning of the federal gov our federal [TS]

  government you know the Constitution the inquest even dry on it and this was a [TS]

  way so that you know the laws you know all sorts of things are we never thought [TS]

  that we better make a lot all those little things you know hadn't happened [TS]

  yet the all writs Act was passed as a sort of catch-all for like hey if [TS]

  something hasn't been cut of if a case comes before you that falls between the [TS]

  cracks of the laws that hadn't been anticipated you know this grants the [TS]

  courts a bit of leeway to you know well so they don't shrug their shoulders and [TS]

  its really really hard to see how that applies here especially when so many [TS]

  laws have been passed about things like encryption and digital devices and stuff [TS]

  like that that that they easily could have if if Congress had wanted to [TS]

  mandate something like this easily could have had in fact there are laws on the [TS]

  books that that's actually stimulate the other way that you know tech companies [TS]

  can't be compelled to do things [TS]

  what was that I had a link to any other down daring fireball forget the name of [TS]

  the Act I guess I could look it up do we have that capability here it's the [TS]

  Kodiak ok the communications assistance for law enforcement act so even just the [TS]

  name the name of that law really makes it clear that this is you know this is [TS]

  really something that's very very close and so here's the section the section of [TS]

  kalia entitled design of features and systems configurations the statute says [TS]

  it does not authorize any law enforcement agency or officer to require [TS]

  any specific design of equipment facilities services features or system [TS]

  configurations to be adopted by any provider of a wire or electronic [TS]

  communication service any manufacturer of telecommunications equipment or any [TS]

  provider of telecommunications support services and you know again such as me [TS]

  i'm not you know how to put on my scooby-doo had here and doing is a [TS]

  mature lawyer and this is you know real legal experts are saying that this you [TS]

  know this was something that Apple cited in their own motion to vacate the order [TS]

  apple is saying that and i think that there might be some slight ambiguity [TS]

  there that maybe this the law was kind of written on the with phone companies [TS]

  in in mind you know like AT&T right [TS]

  verizon and those type of people not necessarily the handset maker but i [TS]

  don't know i mean i think a plain reading of the law you know [TS]

  telecommunications equipment and supporting that's you know cellphone [TS]

  that's what that's what an iphone and their taste them that passes i just read [TS]

  very specifically seems to say you can't make them do things like this you can [TS]

  get a warrant to like investigate what they already have but you can't make [TS]

  them do new things [TS]

  yeah so here's the quote from Judge orenstein that Matthew now this is so to [TS]

  reiterate for anybody's following along can keep the namesake this is the new [TS]

  york case that just broke today and 829 februari [TS]

  this wasn't what I was thinking about this one's good too i'm i conclude that [TS]

  Apple's position is more consistent than the government's with the rule of [TS]

  statutory construction that requires giving meaning to all statutory words [TS]

  and clauses as well as the rules prohibiting interpretations that produce [TS]

  absurd results for our of this suspect constitutionality heat right so in other [TS]

  words I mean that you it's actually it's kind of a good read it's like dripping [TS]

  with sarcasm I mean he's your hits and then the one that I remember that was [TS]

  this there's another one that says something like it it's basically to the [TS]

  effect of it you know if the government's permission is true position [TS]

  is accurate then there's nothing stopping the government from commanding [TS]

  someone to commit murder right way we can command you to do whatever we need [TS]

  to get this is this this glenn greenwald of the intercept has cited this passage [TS]

  the judge also accused the government trying to manipulate secret judicial [TS]

  proceedings to obtain powers for itself against apple that public debate in [TS]

  Congress would never permit it is judge orenstein wrote quote clear that the [TS]

  government has made the considered decision that it is better off securing [TS]

  such crypto legislative authority from the courts in proceedings that had [TS]

  always been at the time and filed the instant application shielded from public [TS]

  scrutiny rather than taking the chance that open legislative debate might [TS]

  produce a result less to its liking and quote back to Greenwald because [TS]

  government wants the courts rather than Congress to grant this power the quote [TS]

  government's interpretation of the breath and authority of the all writs [TS]

  Act confers on courts of limited jurisdiction raises serious doubts about [TS]

  how such a statute could withstand constitutional scrutiny under the [TS]

  separation of powers dr so what is morally saying is there's just no way [TS]

  that there's no way that it that that by not happen you know completely [TS]

  circumventing the legislature and doing this and secret through the courts how [TS]

  in the world is that will fit within our system [TS]

  so I really really think I mean as this goes on in this I mean this is just [TS]

  devastating in my opinion I mean it seems to me not just what I think but [TS]

  you know Greenwald's pretty smart on issues like this it just seems like [TS]

  everybody you know follows the stuff really sees this as a slam-dunk case and [TS]

  apples favor [TS]

  yeah well this ruling is this right right right apples favor definitely I [TS]

  mean obviously I think the government's going to appeal this too right I guess I [TS]

  can't imagine that they wouldn't it seems like they would so it's never you [TS]

  know it's never completely over until the visor computer-related yeah or it's [TS]

  going to this problem cares i wonder when they filed this because it's [TS]

  clearly not the time we add so many of us have said that this the San [TS]

  Bernardino phone is such a perfect example for the government because it's [TS]

  quote-unquote terrorism and it was mean it wasn't just like suspects am easier [TS]

  to do to people who actually shot and killed a bunch of people let me know [TS]

  it's true you know they actually committed it it wasn't even like a you [TS]

  know right up a plan and it just lends them so much more emotional and and sort [TS]

  of now in some ways political weight behind their request that they don't [TS]

  have in case like this drug case [TS]

  yeah yeah i mean the Terrorism stuff obviously brings out people's emotions a [TS]

  lot rap and again records where some people think I like drug myself well but [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  again I would be lost without my drug dealer again we laugh but I i think i [TS]

  speak for you that it i also though I see that though is you know it is common [TS]

  sense that some you know portion of the public would see this differently and [TS]

  it's not necessarily unreasonable people you know I didn't mean it [TS]

  it gets to the root of the the real word terrorism not be politicised one that is [TS]

  thrown about but the real word you know the that it strikes terror in people and [TS]

  when you're terrorized you know you have a reaction you actually not if you are [TS]

  terrorized ended you don't really hear you're like I'm cool I'm scared out of [TS]

  my mind [TS]

  you're you know you're not there something wrong with your doctor or not [TS]

  there's like evolutionary reasons why when when when you encounter a [TS]

  terrifying situation that your body but you know what reacts and very quick and [TS]

  and decided way you know I i find this argument about I mean it's an [TS]

  interesting argument about the the idea that where this debate should take place [TS]

  and I'm just here to put it into into simple terms for stupid people like me I [TS]

  had not seen the most recent Mission Impossible movie it and I just started [TS]

  watching it this afternoon and then this this came out which is kind of funny [TS]

  because the in the very beginning they disband the IMF you know that's [TS]

  impossible missions pores which is it completely unregulated organization that [TS]

  acts without any accountability whatsoever and and we're supposed to do [TS]

  we know and watching the movie that kind of root for the people who have actually [TS]

  no accountability [TS]

  yeah but even there even with the IMF and I liked that movie that's a rogue [TS]

  nation right this neighborhood i actually enjoyed that very much I I [TS]

  thought it was and it's it's funny I don't want to do any spoilers but [TS]

  there's actually a whole bunch of parallels to Spector it's almost uncanny [TS]

  how similar the two movies are like that the lengths to which you could draw you [TS]

  know create a what they call the summaries you know like you know like [TS]

  when you done netflix and they give you like the quick summary [TS]

  oh yeah you like a half a review and a half of a quick plot summary like you [TS]

  can go you can go pretty far into detail and have it apply just as well to the [TS]

  rotation inspector I find that rogue nation was by far the better movie [TS]

  that's my understanding have not seen evidence Inspectorate that is a subject [TS]

  first and different episode of the show yeah it wasn't possible [TS]

  I think it's great but one difference is at least with IMF like it you know Ethan [TS]

  Hunt would break into apple and he would write it [TS]

  but he would write the code himself you know and he would be with benji benji [TS]

  would really have enjoyed the company that would break in and I need to have [TS]

  glasses you know so that she could see what you're saying and I in he would [TS]

  steal Apple signing key and then you know that they would do all the work [TS]

  themselves and they would do so knowing that they're breaking the law to do it [TS]

  brand they wouldn't you know it it's still they had different from this which [TS]

  is really of this sort of compulsory we're gonna make you do we would we tell [TS]

  you to do even though you say we absolutely positively would never do [TS]

  what you're asking us to do is something we would never do [TS]

  yeah yeah I mean it seems to me like there maybe I don't mean somebody like [TS]

  Richmond have a better idea that I would but like there may be a way that [TS]

  somebody super-smart could do that in but that's not really what the point is [TS]

  here that the point is to create legal precedent right I I'm they're not even [TS]

  they're not even trying [TS]

  in the last week I've I am I one of the things that's come up as this has gone [TS]

  on is is more more about how there's no way that Apple could create this and [TS]

  then destroy it [TS]

  well I mean technically it's possible that they could create this user once [TS]

  and then erase all you know traces of it and start over but for any kind of any [TS]

  any case where they would need to show in court it has to be preserved you [TS]

  can't have evidence that was generated using a tool that you've been destroyed [TS]

  increase the defense has a right to inspect the tool it i know that again [TS]

  the slippery slope phrase it's like hear it over and over and over again and it [TS]

  starts to lose meaning but I really feel like it's perfectly apt hear that when [TS]

  you start down this path and it just leads and you don't even know where it's [TS]

  going to wind up right the fact that you have to preserve tools that are used to [TS]

  generate evidence in a criminal case is you know and rightly so that's that's [TS]

  what it should be but it just shows that you can you know there's no way that [TS]

  they could create this and destroy it [TS]

  yeah that's one of the ways that the San Bernardino case is a perfect storm [TS]

  because i don't i really don't think there is any kind of criminal case going [TS]

  on because the two suspects are dead [TS]

  I mean so yeah right what is it exactly you mean they're not prosecuting anybody [TS]

  but they're looking for more people but what if they do find a text message on [TS]

  the phone and it's to somebody else and they're like we're gonna prosecute this [TS]

  guy well now there is a lawsuit and the way that they found the guy was using [TS]

  this tool so even if there's no criminal case against these the two shooters [TS]

  there's you know the whole point of wanting to look at the phone on a [TS]

  surface is is that they're looking for any other anybody else who they might [TS]

  have been in conspiring with right what else is going on with this phone thing a [TS]

  lot of bad commentary i do find that and again I guess it's it's well one of the [TS]

  things that's interesting i say this one of the things that's interesting about [TS]

  it is that it doesn't fall neatly on the left right political divide and in [TS]

  general the political right is a little bit more friendly to law enforcement and [TS]

  the left is more friendly or or you know more or but more in favor of civil [TS]

  rights and civil liberties right so the ACLU is perceived probably correctly so [TS]

  as a left-leaning organization and you know and so and in some sense this is [TS]

  definitely about absolutely about civil liberties that's apples entire defense [TS]

  really um that if you would predict there's any kind of left-right split it [TS]

  would be you know Democrats and left-leaning people thought siding with [TS]

  apple and Republicans and conservative siding with for the yeah for the further [TS]

  but that's a really broad generalization and a lot of conservatives are very [TS]

  libertarian minded and are suspicious of government and about those guys those [TS]

  guys that took that woman took over that land in portland probably over [TS]

  reports to the FBI it was it more like one likes Marvel it was oregon was a [TS]

  Portland did I say for leading-man Oregon hit whatever is good but I'm [TS]

  doing different than ever that would be pretty funny that occupy portland [TS]

  thank-you pie like a hipster coffee with a just brought really a really nice thai [TS]

  restaurant takeover a food truck we can get rid of this guy but why are [TS]

  expensive donut really really great sneakers and now that I've seen an awful [TS]

  lot of people who you know I follow on twitter for other political reasons who [TS]

  are you know and ordinarily would be on a republican conservative side and are [TS]

  you know very much in favor of apple in this regard and I also seen a lot of [TS]

  them i don't i see the similarities almost don't want to open the door on [TS]

  this but I've seen a lot of conservatives I've seen a lot of them [TS]

  compare it to a gun ownership and and didn't gun gun control legislation and I [TS]

  feel like that breaks down pretty quickly but at the top level I kind of [TS]

  see that I do kind of see what you're getting at that there's this argument [TS]

  that the second amendment at a very very high level that if you read it it's you [TS]

  know says you know to you know it's some kind of you know protection against that [TS]

  you know the government that you know you can protect yourself and that that's [TS]

  what encryption is that you can have this device where you protect the data [TS]

  yourself and you have a right to do this is an individual so I kind of see it [TS]

  breaks to me it breaks down a very quickly because gun legislation [TS]

  encryption is binary did your stuff is either encrypted securely or it's not [TS]

  encrypted security [TS]

  yes or no and yes there's different strengths to you know you give greater [TS]

  and greater key lengths and different algorithms and stuff like that so I'm [TS]

  not saying all encryption is equivalent but it's either securely encrypted or [TS]

  not was gone ownership is a or gun legislation in terms of which guns you [TS]

  can buy is clearly there's a spectrum and everybody agrees is one of those [TS]

  things that to me drives me nuts about when you talk about gun control [TS]

  legislation is that everybody seems to agree even if the hard the hardest of [TS]

  the hard liners in the Second Amendment [TS]

  that you know normal civilian shouldn't be able to buys surface-to-air missiles [TS]

  to shoot down general you know that somewhere everybody's willing to draw a [TS]

  line that these arms are too powerful and that the debate is where that line [TS]

  should be drawn but again i don't know if anyone and i'm sure this is one of [TS]

  the topics i'm sure there are people who listen to the show fact I know a couple [TS]

  of them have friends who listen to the show who are you know staunch advocates [TS]

  of gun ownership rights but I do see the connection and I've i suspect that those [TS]

  type of listeners people who can who can bear to listen to my show and the small [TS]

  doses of politics i drop into it but our start Second Amendment advocates I [TS]

  guarantee those listeners are on Apple sinus yeah so I do think it makes for an [TS]

  interesting public debate [TS]

  yeah the problem the problem is that there's sadly not enough representation [TS]

  of those views in politics really easy because most of the month most of the [TS]

  candidates have come out strongly in favor of the FBI or if they're not [TS]

  strongly in favor of the FBI like like our man Trump what's Trump say we just [TS]

  open the damn phone just opened just open the damn phone just open it up it's [TS]

  easy on the the thing that's a little frustrating is that the the the other [TS]

  side is our kind of get involved there there take is more or less wishful [TS]

  thinking like let's put smart people in a room and you know from law enforcement [TS]

  and from these great American tech companies and I'm sure they'll come up [TS]

  with something that will that will a pretty keeping everybody's data are [TS]

  completely safe and secure and we'll let the FBI look at it whenever they want to [TS]

  nothing nothing bad has ever come out of a smoke-filled room [TS]

  it picks up maybe the sunblock what is this about that you said we'd I didn't [TS]

  see this this now that I guess because it came out yesterday I didn't even know [TS]

  that there was a Sunday Wall Street Journal maybe it came out the newspaper [TS]

  today and it was just as yesterday's date line LOL ellegarden l Gordon [TS]

  Kravitz now this sounds like a made-up name [TS]

  he would he used to be the publisher of the the general apparently but I had not [TS]

  really heard of him before this this piece but number one if you're a [TS]

  conservative and you go by first initial Borden something [TS]

  no stop it she had his first name is his first name is Luis it's not like it's [TS]

  livanski or something I mean it's not like some long or your complicated or [TS]

  name that he would have gotten tease developing gordon Liddy yeah like this [TS]

  is a guy is probably about Raj he he's doing it on bright like he's a [TS]

  good-looking to gordon Liddy and it's like hey I my middle name is Gordon i [TS]

  think im gonna be cool [TS]

  it's important to have role models I'm gonna be cool like a political hack did [TS]

  time for Nixon and became a after we got out became a right-wing radio kook right [TS]

  how would you summarize is his headline is Apple's rotten core so we went there [TS]

  I went to the well he spends a lot of time talking about IEDC he starts out by [TS]

  sort of trying to make it seem like apples argument is all about whether [TS]

  it's difficult to do or not and China and tries to make it seem like Apple [TS]

  just doesn't want to do it because it's because they're saying it's hard when [TS]

  that's really not the situation at all and he at some point he says that he [TS]

  says [TS]

  obviously they can find the quote Apple engineers Evan this I can't find out but [TS]

  he says that Apple engineers are basically admitted that it that it would [TS]

  keep could only apply to this one phone will not leave without linking to [TS]

  anything at first a little at first claim this is a quote that this would [TS]

  this work would affect millions of customers now it's engineers admit code [TS]

  can apply to a specific iphone [TS]

  which apple is never said well they could make an instance of the OS that [TS]

  only applies to one phone but it's you know at this point you're starting to [TS]

  talk it's like talking copy-protection you know with video games and apps you [TS]

  know where you once you have a version of the OS that has a statement that says [TS]

  if the device ID equals this exact device ID then go ahead and you know [TS]

  we'll let the manner as many passcodes they want then somebody who illicitly [TS]

  obtained a copy of the OS can break into a debugger and just say why don't we [TS]

  just skip that if check and again I realized and i don't i'm not gonna start [TS]

  a computer science podcast i realized that there are ways to obfuscate that [TS]

  code so that it's not that easy to identify when you break into the [TS]

  debugger but on the other hand I'll go back to my analogy of software copy [TS]

  protection wear it you can't beat it [TS]

  eventually I mean if the you know did whatever checks and that you know most [TS]

  apps and games that are serious about it don't just have a if serial number [TS]

  equals legit dude you know go ahead and play the game [TS]

  I mean I try to make it more complicated than that but you know anybody who's [TS]

  ever tried to you know investigated how much pirated software is out and [TS]

  floating around the world and always has been will realize that there's always [TS]

  ways around it and it's the idea that they would be this version i'm gonna go [TS]

  with this analogy it's not that bad it's sort of like they're asking him to make [TS]

  a game that you know but we will make sure we're the only ones with the serial [TS]

  number but then anybody can crack it and now everybody's gotta you know phone [TS]

  cracking thing else is that when Apple refused the court order Apple defenders [TS]

  claimed it was impossible to unlock the phone to see nobody said that I don't [TS]

  nobody said nobody said that i quoted a thing today we're and maybe I even went [TS]

  the wrong way but that somebody you know there was this Washington Post story on [TS]

  that thing and they were like somebody was trying to give a quote like both [TS]

  sides are kind of liars former Justice Department official Jennifer dass cows [TS]

  that both sides are overstating argument she said the government is wrong to say [TS]

  this is just about one case on the other hand it is wrong to say that if Apple [TS]

  loses this case there's absolutely no limits to what the government can order [TS]

  a company to do and I'm daring fireball I said well the first part is totally [TS]

  true the government really is being disingenuous about this applying to just [TS]

  one phone and I said that nobody especially not apples using words like [TS]

  absolutely no limits on what the government come order company to do a [TS]

  couple emails said well actually apples or doesn't quite say that exactly but [TS]

  they do say that there's no end to the limit and like you said with the the [TS]

  other one the orenstein one that you know what or whatever else or someone [TS]

  would you say said that you know this could lead to the conclusion that the [TS]

  government could order you to kill people that wasn't yeah that would arise [TS]

  that you know actually I mean I was there was not necessarily you know that [TS]

  was not saying that Apple I mean it was basically that wasn't that was a legal [TS]

  interpretation of the misinterpretation reason that all writs act basically they [TS]

  were saying that that it they were saying that though the written law did [TS]

  not apply and so they need to invoke the all writs Act packed and I think [TS]

  gornstein was saying no there's actually a law on the books about this and you [TS]

  can't just ignore that and invoke the law all writs Act because if you start [TS]

  doing that then you can do anything I want that you know that this is exactly [TS]

  what the rule of law is about that right we make these rules we have a general [TS]

  agreement as to what words mean and therefore you you you follow the law [TS]

  I've seen some people in and and you know I don't even over towards i don't [TS]

  know i have I feel like listeners at the show are smarter not going this way but [TS]

  on Twitter they've been some people have approached me with the well how would I [TS]

  feel if one of my family members had been killed by these people did you see [TS]

  the one that's over here go down i don't think it that's really what said i would [TS]

  Tim Cook feel of his wife but no [TS]

  oh hey there's a couple problems with that state and be very surprised [TS]

  yeah yeah I think surprise rolling news for consumers reaction would be if the [TS]

  police the police called him and said Mr Cook we have terrible news [TS]

  your wife is gonna say what now that that would be something and I get this [TS]

  but this is why we don't have a jury's made up of the family members of the [TS]

  victims I I sympathize i really do and I i totally agree with apples emphasis not [TS]

  just some PR but i think they really mean it that every time they talk about [TS]

  this Republican they say something right up front about the tremendous sympathy [TS]

  they have for the for the families of the victims of this incident and every [TS]

  incident and that they you know cannot abide terrorism it's it's the trade-off [TS]

  there is no perfect way to to to cut this off you know you can either you [TS]

  know sacrifice some law enforcement opportunities to find clues and protect [TS]

  privacy and civil liberties for everybody or not but that's you know [TS]

  that's the trade-off that our systems in our founders made you know 200 and [TS]

  whatever years ago [TS]

  yeah and as a matter of fact one of them [TS]

  relatives of one of the victims as actually side with Apple I'm not [TS]

  surprised because you know yeah I mean you know I mean of course there's no I [TS]

  mean there's going to be people on both sides right i mean there's going to be [TS]

  people who desperately want Apple to unlock the phone and the nursing people [TS]

  who wanted the other way right with 14 with 14 victims 19 dead and 22 others [TS]

  who were seriously injured [TS]

  I mean it's not going you're going to find people who were directly involved [TS]

  on all sides of it [TS]

  yeah it is hard and it but it's again this is you know and it I its it i'm [TS]

  trying not to get angry the FBI for doing it and privately i guess i would [TS]

  but at least professionally here on this very professional show I won't but it's [TS]

  it's infuriating that people who and and clearly people who work in the Justice [TS]

  Department and the FBI are dispassionate about this and they understand civil [TS]

  liberties I mean I as far I've I think I don't know if it's still the case but i [TS]

  think that for most and just about every FBI agent [TS]

  unless you're some kind of specialist is you have to have a law degree [TS]

  you know FBI agents are not like you know your local police department i mean [TS]

  these these guys in women because men and women are legal experts and lawyers [TS]

  well they're not they're not what they're not always a lot of them are i [TS]

  think most of them are a lot of a lot of a lot of the biggest a standard way to [TS]

  become an FBI agent is be a lawyer i think you know like you could be Dana [TS]

  Scully and be a medical thing a lot and well but allow them to come from law [TS]

  enforcement or or them and I don't think that's not i don't think it's a [TS]

  situation where they go from law enforcement to leak to law school and [TS]

  under the FBI think I mean you have to be I think you just you have to [TS]

  well they're informed it's not easy i'm not saying it's easy but I'm but i don't [TS]

  believe you have to look like a specific you don't have to be a whatever shady [TS]

  what I'm saying no is that they they know what they're doing you know they [TS]

  know that the legal argument you don't have to be aiming remember something [TS]

  there's that the cynicism involved [TS]

  22 to make these the the San Bernardino family members who are siding with them [TS]

  publicly to to use that to their advantage is it's easy to get me worked [TS]

  up if I really think about it [TS]

  mmm yeah I just expect better [TS]

  I don't know about that well I guess that's my pride that's the problem that [TS]

  I expect better from today's US federal government [TS]

  I should i maybe I should be but I should have a disc disclosure that I my [TS]

  wife is a defense investigator so i guess in my family we come at it from us [TS]

  a certain perspective and and you know some of that is born of the experience [TS]

  of the cases that she's been involved with over the you know the years the [TS]

  right and seeing some of the shenanigans [TS]

  I mean yeah this is only a whitewash of some of the stuff that you know it's [TS]

  actually the a similar thing here where my wife was a defense attorney and solar [TS]

  project over your perfect dad is a good kind of totally online [TS]

  yeah we have all sides of me we a guy named John and his wife works in [TS]

  criminal investigations and we have a guy named John my father worked in [TS]

  criminal legal defense [TS]

  yeah right used or see your wife used to work rain and now right [TS]

  exactly so that's the dads the difference but both sides of the aisle [TS]

  from two guys named John with no formal training in here like output like apple [TS]

  or pretend that because they read the all writs act that they know what the [TS]

  hell is going on i'm curious how this is gonna play out i'm also curious I guess [TS]

  we should take a break and I should talk about one of our friendly sponsors but [TS]

  when we come back I'm curious how this has played out is going to play out in [TS]

  Congress and i'm not even sure I got the date all mixed up so did I don't know [TS]

  maybe you can figure this out afterwards but we take a break though and thank [TS]

  longtime sponsor the show our good friends at back place back place is [TS]

  online that backup for your mac and you install it on your mac and it just [TS]

  upload everything you've got your holes all your content everything you got in [TS]

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  it uploads and then you can get it from anywhere you can use their iphone it's [TS]

  not even just like for like disaster recovery although it does work for that [TS]

  to think of disaster strikes you can just go there and have them load [TS]

  everything onto a USB hard drive and they will send it right to you but it's [TS]

  not just for that [TS]

  let's say you're out and about and you need a file and all you have with his [TS]

  use your phone and it's not even in your dropbox somewhere else [TS]

  on your desktop or something like that just go to the back please appt go up [TS]

  there go to your desktop and there it is you get the file and email it or you [TS]

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  twenty-five percent of all of their restores that customers actually do are [TS]

  just one file at a time so it's a really great service for stuff like that the [TS]

  service the the software is written at least the mac version is written by a [TS]

  former Apple engineers these are guys who really really no it's not like some [TS]

  kind of in a goofy java app that you know number one java you have to like [TS]

  download java no it's nothing like that it's real mac software you just [TS]

  interface it it's the only interface you go through his little system preferences [TS]

  panel easy to setup the defaults are all saying there's not a lot of options you [TS]

  just sign up and you get a free account number one you get a free trial with no [TS]

  credit card required just go to backpage.com / daring fireball it just [TS]

  let it run it uploads and then after that when you say wow this works is [TS]

  crazy that I didn't do what grouper told me to do a year ago and sign up then [TS]

  glad I did it now [TS]

  you didn't what do you do after that you just pay five bucks per month per [TS]

  computer and that's it and it's like you're saying it you know i have a 3 [TS]

  terabyte drive well guess what does matter just five bucks per per computer [TS]

  that's it doesn't matter how much data you have and you'll feel so much better [TS]

  knowing your stuff is backed up outside your home your office or wherever you [TS]

  are so my thanks to back place backpage.com / daring fireball if you [TS]

  haven't signed up already [TS]

  you're nuts or palla Peter cone just want to work for planting backwards you [TS]

  almost said it black black baby i know i know i know you if you have practice you [TS]

  are you [TS]

  I don't even know how you do that but the difference is very good for you [TS]

  so years ago I did a podcast right I did I did I did not say backblaze and I said [TS]

  black played over and over and over again and so you are friends . it's not [TS]

  easy my friend Yahoo's like their marketing guy [TS]

  and a listen to the show and he went over to you know domain name register [TS]

  any registered black blazer and for that's definitely that's definitely the [TS]

  slow that looks like i really like that I wish every time I screwed up [TS]

  responsive read that they would just do it you have didn't just that when I [TS]

  understand a pixel matura I still don't understand I didn't have to say it is [TS]

  that I don't know I really don't know how you would read that I guess my [TS]

  initial guess was Pixelmator but then I thought well maybe that's wrong in it [TS]

  and they were there you know their European they don't even speak English [TS]

  rightly so i made a guess [TS]

  yeah yeah i think there aren't they either gender Germans yeah so pixel [TS]

  metal yeah not so much for its good so what I it's one of those things where [TS]

  it's like if you don't announce if a tree if the tree was never announced and [TS]

  then it doesn't grow out of the ground doesn't make it sound so if Apple never [TS]

  announced a date for a march event can the date be moved [TS]

  no not right they know i know i know i mean if you're if you're deciding when [TS]

  you're gonna have your birthday party and your kind of thinking about having [TS]

  on the fifteenth and move it to the 21st that's right until the invitations go [TS]

  out as a minha you know in your mind you moved it right but it's you know we [TS]

  shouldn't we shouldn't be talking about being right and the same goes for her [TS]

  changing the name of the phone that hasn't been announced yet from the [TS]

  iPhone 5se to the 5 iphone SE change the name of the phone but anyway it's a lot [TS]

  of scratches a lot scratching off the back of the couple weeks ago but they [TS]

  don't they don't couple of weeks ago it leaked to through you know the usual [TS]

  sources that Apple was planning a march event for this new 4-inch iphone and the [TS]

  new ipad and I guess that the rumors say no major updates to the watch not like [TS]

  what the second generation Apple watch but [TS]

  new bands and new bands i don't know what else that was going to be tuesday [TS]

  March fifteenth and then i guess it was over the weekend was it sunday came out [TS]

  I know it was only a legend but Kara Swisher it at recode broke the story [TS]

  actually and then John pets kowski who usually gets those date things first [TS]

  season at BuzzFeed now it was about an hour later and said so too and that nope [TS]

  it's uh it's going to be monday March 21st so it's it's not on a Tuesday it's [TS]

  on a monday and which was stuck for me because I tried to do the right thing so [TS]

  i don't know i would let me just emphasize this right now I have no idea [TS]

  nobody at Apple officially or unofficially as give me any indication [TS]

  of when this event is and on the other hand I've never asked and i would guess [TS]

  that at some point in the next week or 2 i'll get an email with an invitation [TS]

  interstate please join us it town hall on whatever date but I tried to be smart [TS]

  and based on the league i booked a book therefore so I had therefore the [TS]

  original date [TS]

  oh yeah oh you don't care for their i booked their hearing then now i always [TS]

  say i expect and again i don't know i just take guesses on these things i [TS]

  don't know but i might fly out i always stay in san francisco even if I know [TS]

  even if I know for a fact that the event is going to be in cupertino because it's [TS]

  it really there's not much to do down there you don't like the days and yeah [TS]

  it's a freaking Christ a long time friend went out for that Mercedes they [TS]

  talked about a while ago it was a very nice hotel it was fine but it's really [TS]

  you could be i mean there's just nothing going on and I friends in San Francisco [TS]

  so it's it's it's less it's more fun and it's a better trip if I just bite the [TS]

  bullet and wake up and somehow find a ride from San Francisco to cupertino in [TS]

  the morning for the event then the the other way around then to try to put what [TS]

  is that what is that rise a half have her 450 it really very well my traffic [TS]

  it's well she probably more like an hour and I think you got you really want to [TS]

  kind of play it i never do the driving this so I'm actually not sure [TS]

  I think if you keep good traffic and you can get in the passing lane you can you [TS]

  can you can make it in 40 minutes maybe 40 minutes to an hour if you hit traffic [TS]

  it's you know good luck but I have friends up again friend of the chopin [TS]

  sereno is coming in for the same event and he's gonna have a car so I'll just [TS]

  hitch a ride with him at it's like part of it i mean you know this right Ne big [TS]

  part of the rules if you want to be on the talk show is if i ever need a ride [TS]

  you [TS]

  haha yeah I got and I don't take advantage of it very often i'm not [TS]

  really brutally you can verify you want to show a lot of times and I've never [TS]

  once called you and said a multimeter the airport I need a ride [TS]

  no i'm good i know i'm giving a ride to the Fonz's yeah probably on my credit [TS]

  that's what I'm thinking right i think that the phrase some of my know so [TS]

  anyway I is some of my dad I had already booked my airfare and so but I knew what [TS]

  I was getting into on my man I don't I you know I feel like it's sort of like a [TS]

  lost bet but I knew it was a bet [TS]

  I just thought though in times past they give out the official invitation so late [TS]

  that if you book only when you get wake up in the morning and find the email [TS]

  that says here's the official invitation we're having a thing you end up paying a [TS]

  lot more for airfare and if you book in advance and so I took the gamble that [TS]

  you know try to save some money [TS]

  it turns out i'm actually going to hide here is the this is the episode where I [TS]

  talk about the accounting of running during fireball turns out though i had [TS]

  to pay to that's what so that's why you had right okay i had to pay a [TS]

  two-hundred-dollar change fee for both legs of the fight flight so there you [TS]

  think well now you're out 400 bucks and guess what yeah this is shocking this is [TS]

  really i know this is going to shock you [TS]

  american airlines in addition to the two-hundred-dollar change fee for each [TS]

  leg of the flight they charge you tax and service fees on top of that why the [TS]

  shade [TS]

  be it so it's cut well first of all first of all it's horrible that you have [TS]

  to fly american airlines oh my god don't even get me started on it that that's [TS]

  what do you know the other that's really the worst part of the whole story [TS]

  regardless of the fees [TS]

  but that's Tehran well Philly long story short philly used to be dominated by US [TS]

  air [TS]

  I was our that's the story we're like the biggest US air hub and so usair [TS]

  acquiring airlines so its US air that bought American oh it was the other way [TS]

  around but they kept the American name because it's a better name [TS]

  okay okay okay okay okay and maybe America now has more flights American [TS]

  might have been the bigger airline but they were less profitable American was [TS]

  losing money and so usair bought them and and rebranded the whole company as [TS]

  American it was sort of an astronaut's about eight months where they like it [TS]

  would be like going through light kiosks and it'd be like an American desk in the [TS]

  US Air desk and show up at the US Air desk could you have a US air ticket and [TS]

  they're like go to American it's like all right I'm going to marry and yeah [TS]

  that's an american flight now [TS]

  ah but anyway they did they charge you a $MONEY service fee on top of the chi [TS]

  change be good [TS]

  that's like it's like it is a run by ticketmaster exactly [TS]

  wait let me see that you sure here's your convenience fee [TS]

  how much did I pay for this thing about how many airlines you flown over the [TS]

  years that are just gone now [TS]

  I mean unbelievable night so it's like the tech it's kind of like the tech [TS]

  industry for the most part I really there's a few that have stuck around for [TS]

  a long period time and there's a crap ton that came and went [TS]

  yeah I can't I can't even think of something i don't think i ever i was too [TS]

  before my time I never flew TWA and I fleet anyway I'd see that see that's [TS]

  like that's like a childhood memories I mean that's like I'm a TWA reminds me of [TS]

  flying where you got like cloth napkins and you got silverware in a plastic bag [TS]

  and you had like a you know your dinner was like a lake [TS]

  salzburg you know and you had like if there was like a dessert salad I mean [TS]

  there were like four little tray little like holder things on your tray and the [TS]

  flight attendants were all in uniform you know like real like they had hats on [TS]

  and [TS]

  those were the days ah never end and there was also a smoking section and one [TS]

  draw back there was a smoking section for you but you're used to it back them [TS]

  taxes and carrier imposed fees hundred and sixteen dollars [TS]

  I don't know why it's hard to tell them the receipt I don't know they might have [TS]

  charged me [TS]

  yeah I I don't know but anyway four hundred dollars plus the chant taxes and [TS]

  fees i'm actually going to save money on the trip though because the hotels are [TS]

  so much cheaper in San Francisco the next week because the initial date that [TS]

  March fifteenth week is coincides with the game developer conference in san [TS]

  francisco CDC and I my hotel was like five thousand dollars a night it was [TS]

  like so much that I was really worried about Amy looking at MX like thinking [TS]

  that I got a room at the you know the four seasons of the ritz-carlton or [TS]

  something it's like all of the standard hotels that you know we've stayed at [TS]

  four years and years and years and all these things are all sold out because [TS]

  all the GDC is just insane because apples done this before they've had [TS]

  mid-march events and it's coincided with GDC before and it's just insane John and [TS]

  I I mean it's like when you get used to be in every WTC or macworld or something [TS]

  like that it's like oh yeah this is crowded as you know thousands of people [TS]

  and I see a lot of friends GDC is like 75,000 people or something like that and [TS]

  it is like it's just absolutely nuts [TS]

  so anyway I'm actually saving money so my thanks to apple for their all and [TS]

  they're all wearing for I met [TS]

  I'm sorry I've I dive guide might want some of my best friends are game [TS]

  developer so please please [TS]

  that's just a joke don't don't send don't send letters huh [TS]

  I was a little as i was like monday why would they move it to a monday and then [TS]

  turns out last year's event was on a monday to the mid march event that's the [TS]

  one that i missed because i had my eyeball was would have exploded if I [TS]

  well so I i missed that one but it was on a money thing we were talking about [TS]

  you're doing a road trip I hate that was it was it was under consideration and [TS]

  maybe I just drive cross-country know it but there with it but then the altitude [TS]

  was still probably yeah [TS]

  was actually it was like getting on an airplane is like oh my you need to stay [TS]

  at stealing it no I need to stay whatever sea level i was at it [TS]

  yeah so I need to stay like Philadelphia season which is very close [TS]

  I think you're gonna get a lower right i don't have to go or so yeah I guess you [TS]

  don't want to go you don't wanna go higher i didn't know that well maybe not [TS]

  maybe not maybe you could it would implode if you want lower it would [TS]

  explode if you want yeah but like a like the train ride from filling in new york [TS]

  city was fine because it's just it doesn't go up doesn't go down it's just [TS]

  a jersey but going through like the Rockies would have been a problem like [TS]

  the going on an airplane was like oh my god your eyeball will expand it will be [TS]

  excruciatingly painful going like going up and elevation was like maybe nothing [TS]

  will happen but you know you don't really want to take a chance [TS]

  yeah but well I mean anybody anybody who's flown with a cold knows something [TS]

  about that right i mean you know the effect that happens if you flown with a [TS]

  cold which is horrible i mean you just like you're in constant pain I was in [TS]

  the same way that like the first time you've ever experimented with margaritas [TS]

  in your early twenties and then you wake up and you say I was it was it was my [TS]

  times when you when you the first time you've ever told yourself i'm never [TS]

  drinking again [TS]

  ah it's that's what flying with a cold just like i did i'd only done I've [TS]

  always gotten lucky in my life I don't get sick that much i'm pretty healthy [TS]

  and I've only i can remember a handful at times remember one time man my [TS]

  sinuses it just felt like it just felt like the dentist was going up like [TS]

  through that through my I to get to my teeth like for the whole for our . but i [TS]

  will Jonas goes generous goes to a fancy school right so I'm he doesn't get his [TS]

  and bring a Colton always didn't you gotta be hitting it anchors the public [TS]

  school so we get me i don't think there's any difference at all but [TS]

  whatsoever kids are disgusting they're all disgusting it was absolutely no [TS]

  they really are now there's there's no difference [TS]

  Jonas is pretty healthy though he's always I think he got it from Amy's even [TS]

  more healthier or even healthier than I am I think but when he was like [TS]

  kindergarten and first grade manage we're all getting sick all the time [TS]

  yeah yeah anyway I thought that the the Monday date was weird maybe they wanted [TS]

  Monday anyway but the old drummer was for tuesday and but it turns out that [TS]

  there's like a congressional this is a very long talk show digression turns out [TS]

  that there is a a edit some kind of thing in washington DC on tuesday $MONTH [TS]

  the twenty-second involving the Apple FBI thing and so I think they some kind [TS]

  of right but they you know don't want to have product and introduction the same [TS]

  day as that but now I saw today that Bruce was testifying tomorrow in DC so [TS]

  maybe there's like two different things and i'm not quite sure what's going on [TS]

  there but there's a it's just yeah there are there are two different answers [TS]

  so what do you know what it is like tomorrow is testimonial i'm not sure [TS]

  what the differences aight i read both of them but i can't i can't think of [TS]

  what the differences I maybe the 22nd is an actual hearing or something I don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah I think he's just real maybe he's just I don't think his thing is [TS]

  necessarily public but i'm not positive [TS]

  let's do with the and then the other the other thing is public is this like in [TS]

  front of Congress right yeah that's tomorrow which seems like a real shit [TS]

  show [TS]

  although the public one is the public Inc public oh yes the one that he [TS]

  already released an opening statement for ok that's the one where you're just [TS]

  parading before some grandstanding Congress people and you just have to sit [TS]

  there and listen to them [TS]

  lu lu sure say whatever they want to say right i think that i think it's very [TS]

  difficult day to be Bruce school tomorrow [TS]

  Tim Cook's dominic has done it I got AI remember like member he'd tear on the [TS]

  taxes then which i think is is all at least at least the people who disagree [TS]

  with apples perspective on that I think that they actually have a leg to stand [TS]

  on in terms and end you know it not that Apple is keep the people that people who [TS]

  disagree with Apple have like yeah the people who say you should be you should [TS]

  repatriate the money and pay your taxes that there's some ye some sense to the [TS]

  argument it's not you're not arguing like a fantasy thing but i don't know i [TS]

  mean i think in a way they are i mean i think with the the argument about the [TS]

  the iphone is what the long nights where exactly and there's whereas whereas [TS]

  that's not as ambiguous with the tax claim they were they are actually [TS]

  complying with the law it's just that the laws is letting them get away with [TS]

  murder [TS]

  right exactly taxpayer right tax murder right yeah right well we'll collect all [TS]

  the taxes on way we wouldn't collect the taxes would be of some crazy company [TS]

  wanted to you know I don't know put a hundred billion dollars in an offshore [TS]

  account Ireland i'm going to keep a hundred billion dollars in oh how do we [TS]

  not [TS]

  how do we not think of that o.o that's because people in business wrote the tax [TS]

  law I can't help but think that Apple's not happy about and who knows maybe this [TS]

  March twenty second thing with brutal and DC will come and go and and people [TS]

  will be tired of the whole FBI argument by them but i can't help but think that [TS]

  whatever caused them to to change their date for this event [TS]

  it's not good news because i think even though it's a day before I think they'd [TS]

  rather have like a whole week of her what you called sunshine you know where [TS]

  the news about Apple is this new iphone and the new ipad and i and maybe get [TS]

  people to stop talking about the FBI thing for a week and concentrate on the [TS]

  product was now they've got 24 hours [TS]

  well yeah or maybe they think that whatever they're announcing is going to [TS]

  be good enough that they're can overshadow it a little bit or at least [TS]

  there's a chance of how I just think you can't you know that to show it's sort of [TS]

  like a show must go on situation [TS]

  you know it is what it is and they obviously weren't prepared for this I [TS]

  mean one thing we know about this whole FBI thing is that Apple was taken by [TS]

  surprise and Tim Cook said on ABC that he found out about it after the [TS]

  president the press was notified about it before Apple was which is again not [TS]

  the FBI's proudest moment in my opinion but you know with somebody who is you [TS]

  know Apple who is not a criminal suspect it's not [TS]

  yeah i like when you'd when tim cook at you know axes a little bit upset i think [TS]

  rightly so that Apple found out about it through the press it's not like they're [TS]

  the subject of a criminal investigation they're supposedly apple green you know [TS]

  trying to partner with the FBI did to do the best they can in this situation you [TS]

  know that they kind of got publicly sandbag so well we want to talk about [TS]

  guesses for yeah maybe when i take a break though and yeah i think our next [TS]

  friend of the show is a brand new sponsor first time on the talk show [TS]

  first time I've ever heard and their company called Squarespace Squarespace [TS]

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  are you sure you're pronouncing that correctly I don't have any notes on [TS]

  pronunciation so I think it's alright it's we'll just have to go with ask you [TS]

  where got you i can't see it in front of me so I don't really just the two will [TS]

  go with your just the two words square and space pushed up against each other [TS]

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  want it and then you don't pay until later and they have all of these I mean [TS]

  it is when i say all of these I mean it's just an incredible number of [TS]

  professionally designed templates and starting points for different types of [TS]

  sites like maybe you're building a store maybe somebody else's designer and [TS]

  to build a portfolio of their work maybe somebody else is just trying to build a [TS]

  teaser page for like an upcoming appt and you just want one of those pages [TS]

  it's just like one just the whole site is just one page and it just gives you [TS]

  like a teaser about what's coming in the service any of those things you can do [TS]

  in the squarespace you can host a podcast it square space and even you [TS]

  know have like an audio player and stuff like that so you can you know have the [TS]

  the you know people can hit play right there on the webpage everything like [TS]

  that you can have a blog all of this stuff one surface they do the hosting [TS]

  it's not like you build the site and then they give you a bunch of PHP files [TS]

  that you have to go to a web hosting upload know that the squarespace that [TS]

  the the thing where you design it it's always easy way you do it right there [TS]

  and then when you're done you just you know say go public and the thing that [TS]

  you were making it that just is your website really amazing I've never heard [TS]

  of anything quite like this so you get a free trial today at squarespace.com like [TS]

  I said it's a free trial you don't start paying until later when you do decide to [TS]

  sign up because you're like wow I got to keep this website i made it i got to [TS]

  keep it just remember the code Gruber my last name GRU ber and you will get ten [TS]

  percent off your first purchase that could be a lot of money you could just [TS]

  prepay for a whole year [TS]

  that's like getting I don't know 36 days for free so just remember that [TS]

  squarespace com my last name Gruber is the offer code and it will save you a [TS]

  bunch of bucks go check them out i think this company is is going somewhere [TS]

  never heard of anything like it yeah so prediction what you want to talk about [TS]

  what we expect [TS]

  yes I don't mean I you know like I it sounds like i don't think i have any [TS]

  thing I certainly don't have any other predictions other than what it seems [TS]

  like you know what we already talked about which is smaller iPhone and [TS]

  updated iPad and Apple watch bands and maybe I know maybe some faces or [TS]

  something which i just added I just made that up [TS]

  well I did I'm I'm much more interested in talking about the fact that i'm [TS]

  probably gonna get this phone [TS]

  alright but that's it so we do know a lot where we think we know a lot thanks [TS]

  to scoop kerman we don't know everything and there's some interesting questions [TS]

  in there so one of the things is that the the rumor and that you know there's [TS]

  other sources for this too including that analyst he's got good sources over [TS]

  in the supply chain [TS]

  in the supply chain [TS]

  I mean something to you yelling to quo as back this up to that the phone is [TS]

  going to have the a9 system-on-a-chip maybe underclock maybe not clock quite [TS]

  as fast as that on the iphone 6 and success in six-plus but same generation [TS]

  cpu as today's top-of-the-line iphones same generation least what but so in [TS]

  other words it's not like hey this is like a year old tech phone this is like [TS]

  you know a six-month-old phone you know it's only half half year off the main [TS]

  cycle but it won't but it's not supposed two three [TS]

  no don't have three that 1i guess the one flagship thing it's missing is 3d [TS]

  touch and who knows maybe I like the ipad maybe like the ipad mini and maybe [TS]

  it'll have the year old touch ID sensor that's looks exactly the same but is [TS]

  there a little slower so it's lower him which I actually i might upgrade techno [TS]

  even though because i heard all of these are people complain about i still get it [TS]

  that I key i still that button is so much more convenient to just wake up the [TS]

  phone and look at the lock screen like the problem is that made apple has made [TS]

  the lock screen so much more useful now that it shows like your most recent [TS]

  notifications that I want to see the lockscreen a lot and they've made it [TS]

  impossible to get the lock screen using your your thumb on the touch ID button [TS]

  because it's so damn fast [TS]

  so anyway I would even call that a downside but i'm wondering why don't I [TS]

  i'm wondering if I did I mean I our friend Albert complaints about that too [TS]

  but I don't I don't I mean I i if you anyway and you can tap the side but you [TS]

  can use the side button or if you use the tip of your thumb instead of the [TS]

  flat part you can get it to do what you want to write it'sit's I don't have a [TS]

  lot of patience for that it's it's not my strongest complain again stop this [TS]

  thing is too fat resting [TS]

  my Porsche is just it's just this card too fast [TS]

  good-looking I know my god nobody makes me like terrible i like terrible [TS]

  standing next to my Porsche ever nobody ever shuts up about how beautiful that [TS]

  is [TS]

  that's terribly annoying huh i'm curious and then this story that hasn't leaked [TS]

  yet like what type of storage capacities is gonna have is I think that it's going [TS]

  to get have a couple of options you know and we had a hundred dollars apart but [TS]

  that I had hurt i well I one point I had seen 1664 that light which is I think [TS]

  what most of them go round well don't do 1632 don't know that don't know there's [TS]

  no been talking about writer years right right that's the terrible ending but [TS]

  they won't have to wonder what they're gonna do that jerky thing that they did [TS]

  the rest of them drive 16 and 64 makes a lot of sense i'm guessing and then the [TS]

  other big question is how good is the camera going to be and you know it [TS]

  that's the sort of thing that it's yeah you know the the yeah i know i [TS]

  understand that that's important i mean that's important for lots of people it's [TS]

  not important for me because I had to keep saying this but I feel like the [TS]

  camera surpassed my ability to take a good picture like with three generations [TS]

  ago so I'm happy going back to what I mean certainly the lake if it's the sips [TS]

  I'm perfectly happy going back to that even if it's like the 5s I'm happy going [TS]

  back to that too [TS]

  I mean the only thing i think i would miss is 3d touch which I have come to [TS]

  rely on a little bit but I think for to get a smaller phone i will actually i [TS]

  will actually be willing to give that up [TS]

  yeah its interactive can't wait to see how they do this and how Apple portrays [TS]

  the camera like both i'm most interested in how the camera actually is of course [TS]

  but i'm very interested to see how Apple talks about the camera and the ways that [TS]

  it's you know what's good about it and how do they position it compared to the [TS]

  iphone success and success plus which by all accounts and but just by common [TS]

  sense because they're almost certainly more expensive have a superior camera [TS]

  it's going to wind up my guesses that it's it is its own camera you know that [TS]

  it's not like they took the camera from the blank iphone and stuck in this that [TS]

  you know that this device is different enough from anything that's come before [TS]

  it that it's got its own camera and where it falls on the spectrum is in and [TS]

  some degrees technically measurable and in other ways is subjective [TS]

  yeah i mean you can take a side-by-side picture at the exact same lighting from [TS]

  the exact same spot and then compare the resulting files and look for things like [TS]

  noise and you know how you know how bright it looks in low lighting or [TS]

  something like that but in other ways you know it's like it's like you said a [TS]

  lot of ways it's just it it long ago surpass most of our abilities you know [TS]

  like there when the the shot with iphone campaign started a year ago when the [TS]

  best phone was the iphone 6 there are people who shot photos are way better [TS]

  than any photo I'm ever gonna take in a million years with the with the iphone [TS]

  15 you know what I mean like like 10 years from now when the cameras are [TS]

  absolutely amazing i'm never gonna take a picture as beautiful as the one that's [TS]

  that Apple chose to put on the billboard that were taken with the iphone second [TS]

  last year I mean that people take some amazing photos with those things [TS]

  what's making you think that you're going to do you want the phone and we've [TS]

  talked about i just--that's just yeah just the size i mean i i've been i've [TS]

  been unhappy with the the size of the 6 and 6s all things considered [TS]

  and maybe even like up to again to bring up the year anniversary date up to 13 [TS]

  months ago I would I wouldn't hesitate i would be waiting in line to get the [TS]

  orange phone I've got here I have one on my desk I just keep it here to make me [TS]

  sad i have my iphone I'm yeah I've actually yeah I have my of my regular i [TS]

  have my iphone 5s right here and now I've got my hand and I'm in love i love [TS]

  the way this device filled in my head my big thing sometimes it's sometimes they [TS]

  pick up a foreign think man that's really nice to expect to really love the [TS]

  feel of this from my thing is with my my vision the combination of I've got one [TS]

  bad I and my good eye [TS]

  is really running into the mid forties presbyopia and like I need reading [TS]

  glasses and so the bigger size of the other one but on the other hand I keep [TS]

  thinking to myself I don't run my six in the big screen mode you know me make [TS]

  this that ya never never do I and my eyesight's going to so I wonder maybe [TS]

  i'll beat you know I'll see last you know but I was always fine with that you [TS]

  know like and most of all honestly tell you the truth what I read on the phone [TS]

  is Twitter so the fact that you don't see a lot of once it's fine because the [TS]

  whole suite is always there and you just sit there and flick your thumb [TS]

  yeah yeah dinner what the what the [TS]

  the one thing I the one thing I do like about the 6s is health community you [TS]

  know apart from the way we talk about the lock screen thing but in general [TS]

  it's just crazy fast [TS]

  well in this should have the same thing right because it's got even if it's an [TS]

  understandably underclocked a9 it still should be way faster than even the [TS]

  iphone 6 and I think a lot of the things that the iphone that the a9 makes feel [TS]

  fast like you just don't wait for it stuff should all i would guess we'll be [TS]

  true on this new phone [TS]

  yeah and maybe yeah i mean even if its underclock maybe the smaller screen [TS]

  makes up for it [TS]

  yeah exactly because there will be fewer pixels to push so some anything that is [TS]

  like graphics constrained you know it's going to be easier everything should be [TS]

  easier [TS]

  I'm just holding this phone here and the thing that just it just strikes me is [TS]

  there's a reason why I never dropped one of these and i have dropped I haven't [TS]

  dropped my suggest I've never dropped my success but I did drop my six last year [TS]

  twice to drop some broke both times i have not I have been lucky enough not to [TS]

  drop it but I feel uneasy about it all night but this feels like the type of [TS]

  phone that you can you know you just walk around anyway you just walk around [TS]

  with the phone in your hand you know don't worry about it it's never going to [TS]

  me I mean it's you know I think people all everybody has their own set of [TS]

  parameters that they want to satisfy and I mean some people would rather have [TS]

  a large phone and maybe not have an ipad i mean it seems like there's probably a [TS]

  lot of people which is maybe why the iPads and doing is why I think that's a [TS]

  huge part of it [TS]

  huge part yeah i would rather have a small phone and a big ipad right yeah i [TS]

  think that for some people maybe they don't buy ipads because it's again I've [TS]

  already got my macbook air or whatever I walk around with all the time but I [TS]

  definitely think that that for a lot of people i know i know that's not even [TS]

  think I know I've heard from them who their email me they write to me on [TS]

  Twitter an awful lot of people who especially the plus users who are like [TS]

  this is my ipad you know I read books I don't you know I don't need it I'll and [TS]

  it's so great you know and this is an argument we've had ever since there's no [TS]

  power book first came out is and it's gotten so much better over the years [TS]

  with dropbox and stuff like that but that the trade-offs between having [TS]

  multiple devices versus one device right if you've got this one device you just [TS]

  know it's already there tonight and for however much the cloud you know for [TS]

  dropbox or iCloud documents and all that stuff has gotten easier and it continues [TS]

  to get easier you know and I map for email instead of pop for email and all [TS]

  these things that keep stuff so that you can keep multiple devices in sync [TS]

  if you just have one device you just know it right and you get any inside you [TS]

  you almost like you get like that muscle memory if you spend all of your time on [TS]

  one device it's like you get faster and faster and you don't even think about it [TS]

  yeah used to be used to be a big decision . between whether you got a [TS]

  fast laptop or you got like a slow laptop and a fast desktop right right [TS]

  yeah yeah used to talk about that on the show in the old days along all the time [TS]

  yeah and I really went back and forth and never was like on one side i've done [TS]

  it both ways and they were always do was the trade-offs are so complicated and [TS]

  and it was so hard to make that decision [TS]

  yeah and i feel i'm in for the most part now I've just been relying on old fairly [TS]

  fast laptop but not super sexy like you know I went into the kind of this [TS]

  problem that i wanted to play fire watch [TS]

  and it would not planet doesn't play on my laptop and I didn't have a ps4 her so [TS]

  I eventually I had to play it i played on my son's computer so i had a button [TS]

  that was the fastest computer and then i had to buy a ps4 yeah I thought about [TS]

  that for a long time and then I'll suddenly hit me [TS]

  wait i could use pistons computer did you like Firewatch I didn't like finally [TS]

  let's come back to move it yeah remind me and yeah i don't think i've talked [TS]

  about on the show I talked about it with the Polsky on his show but I didn't talk [TS]

  about here I don't think so that it also brings us though to the ipad the new [TS]

  iPad pro which is supposedly coming that the replacement i guess or the next [TS]

  generation of what we now know is the ipad air scoop government says they're [TS]

  going to call it the the ipad pro and then just put like parentheses 9.7 inch [TS]

  which in addition to the fact that you know coming government's record is [TS]

  pretty good and it's getting closer we get the more likely that these that the [TS]

  leaks are accurate i think it it passes the common sense test [TS]

  yeah i guess i mean i guess so i mean i don't think i dont it doesnt sound of [TS]

  that Apple has every release the product that fails the common sense test [TS]

  regarding its name but in this case I think it makes sense that the ipad pro [TS]

  is an ipad that you know what are the features of the ipad pro 4 speakers or [TS]

  at least you know stereo speakers I think you have to have for that because [TS]

  you're you can otherwise you can't turn it around sideways and still have it in [TS]

  stereo so you know no more just one big speaker it's four speakers you get [TS]

  stereo pencil support [TS]

  I don't know what else like the keyboard [TS]

  oh yes yes yes and the the little thing on the side the new the Newport for the [TS]

  smart keyboard yeah that's the big one right and any ipad that has those things [TS]

  is an ipad pro and you just pick which size you want [TS]

  yeah i mean if they're putting those things in that it doesn't make it any [TS]

  sense to call the ipad air even if it's the same size and you know the other [TS]

  argument is just called the ipad [TS]

  but then you don't really get that sort of branding effect of like but it's got [TS]

  all these other things that go along with the ipad right i think the [TS]

  difference and so for example and obviously the macbook shows that Apple [TS]

  is willing to just have a you know product that is without a modifier no [TS]

  adjectives just the product you know the family name [TS]

  I think the difference is that the ipad pro has these flagship features again [TS]

  whatever size ipad pro is the big one that we already have or this new one [TS]

  that's supposedly imminent but it has the smart Keyboard adapter it has a [TS]

  pencil support that these things make it a pro where's the the macbook doesn't [TS]

  really have anything except that except it's extraordinary weight and size [TS]

  I didn't mean to be that dismissive of it but you know that there's no there is [TS]

  no thing that the the macbook does that you you know that you would call a pro [TS]

  feature [TS]

  no certainly not if anything it's the opposite of me [TS]

  not that this is not a bad now that it's a bed so maybe and IMA just saw one for [TS]

  the first time I die I did not get like a review unit or anything of that so I [TS]

  i've i've never had I've never had used one except in a store and we were in an [TS]

  apple store the other day and any saw for the first time so what the hell is [TS]

  this [TS]

  she obviously didn't really I think she'd heard of it but she really hadn't [TS]

  realized like and she said it like but it was it was it was both with disdain [TS]

  and kind of like impressed like this is amazing but why would anybody buy this [TS]

  thing I just buy an ipad that was her take what people want a keyboard and she [TS]

  was with this keyboard sucks and I was like well that's you know that's it [TS]

  I our family keep people where where I everybody in the family you're pretty [TS]

  hard cookie we're pretty hardcore and on the keyboard [TS]

  we're not like that we're not like I I i tried to I mean I've used that keyboard [TS]

  and I would easily switch to that keyboard and I would i like that device [TS]

  and like the trackpad and I would but I hoping that the next one will be at [TS]

  least a little more powerful and and I maybe have have another pie thing that [TS]

  could I think it'll be a huge upgrade i think that I guess gotta be so much [TS]

  faster i think that i think the first one was it [TS]

  about putting a flagon that stick in the ground saying this is how thin like [TS]

  these things should be and now they've got a year to actually get the text to [TS]

  actually support it [TS]

  yeah but anyway cuz ya myself i am i've got a 10-inch is a 10 or 11 i can [TS]

  remember that the small air 11 and yeah okay lemon and I've had a 2012 [TS]

  so I'm kind of your push holding out I thought I really thought about buying [TS]

  buying a new computer in the fall but I thought ya go see what that next macbook [TS]

  is gonna think the next macbook my I don't know anything about it I just [TS]

  suspect that it's gonna be very compelling especially if you can get by [TS]

  with the keyboard i could i'm sure i could adjust to the keyboard any [TS]

  hardware keyboard i could get used to it if I mean you're not gonna you're not [TS]

  gonna use the keyboard at home anyway [TS]

  no no but sometimes when i'm using I obviously do most of my writing in my [TS]

  desk with my big old quickly collect keyboard but when I am traveling know [TS]

  sometimes I actually have to do a lot of writing like a moral your state your [TS]

  steam . the only reason I'm i am traveling most half the time is because [TS]

  I have something to write about because it's a apple event or whatever [TS]

  yeah I a big question that people have we have to get to it is what is the [TS]

  pricing on the ipad pro gonna be the new of this new smaller one is it going to [TS]

  be as in the ballpark of the expense of the big one another and then therefore [TS]

  meaning that they would and and Tim Cook's apple i mean it is obvious this [TS]

  is obvious to anybody would pay half attention to the company one of the [TS]

  difference in Tim Cook's apple and Steve Jobs Apple is that Tim Cook's Apple [TS]

  keeps the older ones around longer as opposed to wiping the family clean and [TS]

  saying how you like the you like the ipod mini now we don't make it anymore [TS]

  yeah i mean it was the most popular then we made a single axis the most popular [TS]

  than this company has ever made [TS]

  yeah but we took all day like that guess what we actually had a bunch of them [TS]

  left and we dump them in the pacific ocean because that's how much as how [TS]

  much I like this I ipod nano better write that was steve jobs i did it i [TS]

  think it's almost certain that the ipad air 2 will stay around in some way at [TS]

  sixteen gigabytes and it's some kind of in a lower price point I i would why [TS]

  would be flabbergasted if they don't because it would be so out of character [TS]

  for Tim Cook sample the question now is with the the big ipad pro that one [TS]

  that's already out the 12-inch one the 13-inch whatever it is it starts at [TS]

  seven ninety-nine [TS]

  but Boyd you know that's the 32 gigabyte one of Wi-Fi if you want cellular you're [TS]

  up to 1079 428 gigabytes and those are your only options on the the existing [TS]

  ipad pro you have just have three to choose from 32 that's Wi-Fi only 128 [TS]

  with Wi-Fi only or 128 with Wi-Fi and cellular so in some ways it's [TS]

  commendable because it's a lot lot simpler product matrix then a lot of [TS]

  apples other products but on the other hand boy that you know i'm not quite [TS]

  sure how much less this one will cost if the only difference is the display and [TS]

  does that leave a hole in the lineup and where the main you know people who want [TS]

  to spend five or 600 bucks on an iPad are still buying the ipad air 2 lots and [TS]

  lots of people on Twitter asking me what do I think this thing is going to cost [TS]

  and I really don't know I'm terrible at i'm terrible at that [TS]

  yeah it seems is the base ipad still 16 for the the air let's see [TS]

  well they still stuck my friend talking about yourself right now they still sell [TS]

  yes so 60s 16 is the is the five-hundred-dollar ipad air 2 for [TS]

  friendly advice and what they say yea that's right there 1664 120 they've got [TS]

  iPads and if you just look at the compare [TS]

  i mean i-i guess I did I'm almost sure i would hope that the very least they're [TS]

  gonna get rid of the ipad air one that's gone and they'll just have to ipad [TS]

  mini's the mini for in the mini 2 and all these different configurations tenia [TS]

  it did I don't know is it a previous in current is this a problem [TS]

  I don't know I guess I I would maybe suggest just weird i don't think it's [TS]

  like well I mean I clearly I've had some problems but I don't think of no the [TS]

  fact that there's an ipad air know and it's easy to get started either like if [TS]

  you walk in the store and you don't know which one to buy [TS]

  it's easy to get started by saying well which size one do you want and then [TS]

  people can start by saying well I just I want this size and then from there it's [TS]

  so it's already simplified dramatically and the picking between the colors [TS]

  that's that's not a complicated issue and that's just that's easy right that's [TS]

  you just know which one you like better and you pick it that doesn't I don't [TS]

  count that like if there's three colors available . that is tripling the [TS]

  complexity [TS]

  I know and then when it comes to I had to be the toughest decision for somebody [TS]

  who's getting an ipad is that what do you get the Y fire to get the Wi-Fi and [TS]

  cellular that to me is a really tough one and when family members asked me [TS]

  advice I don't have a problem with that happen because I mean I because to me I [TS]

  would just use tethering right from your phone [TS]

  yeah so i don't i never i will never buy it [TS]

  I mean I and tell a cellular capable I've had again problem i do i buy them [TS]

  because Amy does the same thing that we both have AT&T iPads and we have verizon [TS]

  phones and when traveling that [TS]

  oh that can be yeah i can see that i arrived and I should keep track of it [TS]

  though i have found though it anecdotally in the last year i have [TS]

  found [TS]

  that little fewer and fewer times do I need to worry you know that the verizon [TS]

  signal at airports and stuff like that is good enough that I don't find myself [TS]

  doing that but well I've always found horizons coverage to be better than a [TS]

  tease [TS]

  so if I were to do it i would probably can't even do this would do [TS]

  verizon phone which is what I already do and then team yeah i would get at it if [TS]

  i get a new I next time i buy an ipad if I do get sailor I'm gonna buy t-mobile [TS]

  instead of ATM because then you do like you're in downtown someplace you can get [TS]

  like wicked and you also feel like you're giving your money to a company [TS]

  that actually maybe you feel good about giving some money too [TS]

  yeah I kind of regret that I didn't switch my phones to tmobile and at this [TS]

  point what that well yeah and you guys are downtown like you're in a year in a [TS]

  pretty well covered area we I i wrote a i did a review of phones last year for [TS]

  or I'm not sore not phones of percentile cellular providers in the Seattle area [TS]

  and so for tom's hardware and so they sent me all these phones and I drove [TS]

  around and try to different areas and tmobile came up the best so I was like [TS]

  oh I maybe we should have tmobile but not in our hands and said that was ever [TS]

  that was the problem it downtown Seattle it was crazy fast it was fantastic but [TS]

  when I drove home [TS]

  no couldn't get a signal I mean couldn't get a good soil so here's the price [TS]

  lineup of the iPads now so the Wi-Fi once go from 400 to 700 and that's [TS]

  expands the gamut from ipad air one with only 16 gigs up to a hundred and twenty [TS]

  eight gigabyte ipad air 2 can they just replace can they do an ipad pro at the [TS]

  9.7 sighs that's in this 500 600 700 dollar range [TS]

  I don't know it's I think they want it's a big I think it will be i'm going to [TS]

  guess here's my guess and you know it's worth what you're paying for is a [TS]

  16-gigabyte ipad pro no I don't think they'll do it i don't think they'll do [TS]

  you know you don't think so that if one oh that's right that's right now i know [TS]

  that i actually came up with this earlier and I did that misstating I [TS]

  thought 32 will start a 32 at six hundred and then it will do 64 at seven [TS]

  hundred and then eat her maybe they'll do like the other programs just jump [TS]

  right to 128 I don't know that's a big gut that's a big jump though maybe they [TS]

  want to have those hundred dollar increments because that jump in that [TS]

  jump is 250 bucks so with the the big 13 inch iPad pro it goes from 802 950 if [TS]

  you if you go from 30 to 128 so with the current 13 inch iPad pro that jumps from [TS]

  800 but i'm gonna skip apples goofy 99 numbering i'm going to add a dollar to [TS]

  every price it goes from 802 952 go from 30 to 128 so it's only a hundred and [TS]

  fifty dollar gap when you go all the way from 32 to 128 can aid can they go two [TS]

  hundred dollars by going 32 64 128 it seems weird that the bigger one could [TS]

  could go from 32 to 128 for quote unquote only one hundred fifty dollars [TS]

  but then the 9.71 would go in hundred-dollar increments [TS]

  I don't think that 9.7 will go well I think maybe it won't go to 128 right [TS]

  well they are but the idea will be thrown it will be 30 to 60 know the ipad [TS]

  air 2 already goes to 128 you know but that'll get it over with yeah I don't [TS]

  know who knows I may be that maybe the simplified just go 32 128 I don't have a [TS]

  hundred and fifty our jump in there and then if you want a 16-gigabyte ipad you [TS]

  you just buy the air to right by the air to you know I think pro definitely [TS]

  starts at 32 bits and it's totally yeah and again and it's such a big difference [TS]

  could given that iOS it [TS]

  self is around like eight gigabytes or something like that like the usable [TS]

  space difference between 16 32 is what [TS]

  it's just trim it it's way bigger than the numbers alone make it seen ya and [TS]

  now you get a special edition 342 device right but but I've been being 64 for [TS]

  most everything now and that's been great [TS]

  whereas for a while I was struggling with 32 i could get by with 32 even I [TS]

  it's it's hard now yeah because there's certain you know there's somebody I [TS]

  don't even play a lot of games but a handful of games or hate if you load up [TS]

  on movies for a flight or something like that 60-64 is the sweet spot for me for [TS]

  an ipad where 564 I don't think I've ever gonna run out of space and if i do [TS]

  I think there'd be some kind of you know i can delete like the whole season of [TS]

  mad men that i already watched or whatever and there's something that I [TS]

  can delete to easily free up the space and I just don't have to worry about it [TS]

  and you know one of the reasons and I have to say it's you know I want to go [TS]

  to hold aggression about it but for me at least the the way that iCloud photo [TS]

  library works and that you just download the files when you need him and you [TS]

  don't have to use its it's like I feel like I can get all my photos on my iPad [TS]

  and I don't have all the space taken up with all my photos on my iPad it really [TS]

  you know i hate to say it but it's a service that Apple really nailed you [TS]

  know does what it does what it claims to on the 10 here's a weird one has to i [TS]

  still use it here so we're on the ipad the ipad air and this is so weird the [TS]

  ipad air the one Airport air one if you get the Wi-Fi only model or either model [TS]

  the two sizes are 16 32 and they're only separated by 50 bucks like really 399 [TS]

  494 49 and in the cellular one last 5 29 2 579 like it for the two don't know [TS]

  ipad early a better yeah they want yeah okay it's like me and for 50 bucks just [TS]

  get rid of the 16 gigabyte you know I mean I don't know [TS]

  yeah i mean they must there must be where [TS]

  I don't know maybe it was because if we must think they have a reason but at the [TS]

  same time they're not selling as many I'm right and it's not even a hundred [TS]

  other office maybe they are doing [TS]

  maybe they are doing the wrong thing just 50 bucks I so the ipad so ask the [TS]

  big question is how one of the new ipad this new iPad pro that's only nine point [TS]

  seven inches what is it gonna cost is going to be a hundred dollars more than [TS]

  the comparable air tools right now because it's got all this fancy new [TS]

  stuff i don't know well the other thing any other thing is I probably wanted to [TS]

  be a hundred dollars more because i just bought an ipad air 2 for you and also [TS]

  which is to perfect would also like to have it have like a sharp edge that [TS]

  gives you a nasty paper cut and shocking getting shocked everyone soil and it [TS]

  only gets two hours of battery life and it runs extremely on it i'm pretty sure [TS]

  that's exactly what's gonna happen right this is what we're releasing its [TS]

  februari because it's it's it's a lot warmer it will keep people warm i guess [TS]

  they're releasing in March I don't know March EMR system will be marched [TS]

  tomorrow yeah but not yet when we record it when we were him I saw think the date [TS]

  is a record of will probably never recorded on leap taken [TS]

  that's right and we'll record podcast again but it's you know it seems right [TS]

  yeah it's not the chances are slight the chances are pretty slim that you and I [TS]

  will ever record on leap day again and a Monday and Monday night is not also [TS]

  unusual it is a little bit uh I saw something today that said i guess i [TS]

  should write to stand and put in the show notes see if i can find it again [TS]

  that births go way down on leap day and not just see sections where you would [TS]

  think that there would be some control because a lot of times when one when the [TS]

  mother has a c-section you can kind of plan it and you can be like I will do [TS]

  tomorrow [TS]

  yeah but even natural births even vaginal births go down on leap day which [TS]

  would suggest that well there's I mean I third supposedly like little things that [TS]

  you can do and apparently that is and and [TS]

  the the graph is it's not subtle it's that's really really serious yeah cause [TS]

  like my sister lot i remember you know like I think one of the kids was late [TS]

  and the doctor said go home and have a glass of red wine but it's suspected she [TS]

  did and like 24 hours later Nick I would you mind having a leap day birthday [TS]

  I mean I don't know what I mean what are you gonna do [TS]

  well i think that was left over a lot i mean as opposed to and if I if I had a [TS]

  choice is to have one or not i would say i would rather not but um I like my [TS]

  son's birthday is just a few days after christmas which i think is is lousy [TS]

  there is a bomb it's a bomb dreamies is a handful of days before Christmas and [TS]

  trust me I've heard that it is a bum sees that she's in a bum . on christmas [TS]

  is just the way that they do it I've always is the way they do it is if your [TS]

  birthday's februari 29 you celebrate on the other years you celebrate on march [TS]

  first and I get me that's the thing and as a kid that always I i see the logic [TS]

  of it where your birthday is the day after februari 28 but I could that one [TS]

  of the things that I think puts a sour taste in people's mouths with a leap day [TS]

  birthday is it [TS]

  I would I think it would make more sense to celebrate on februari 28 and say that [TS]

  your birthday is the last day of februari because to me part of your [TS]

  birthday is the month you know like are you a march person you October person [TS]

  you are you a December person oh you near Christmas you know it's the month [TS]

  matters and so even if you're at like the last day of the month [TS]

  it's like you're you feel like you're februari birthday person right and [TS]

  that's how the yeah isn't that how the old horoscopes were people still do [TS]

  horoscopes [TS]

  well sure some people are but that's about what its like the cutoff date is [TS]

  the month though right [TS]

  it's like so like what all of a sudden you're not a pisces anymore now you're [TS]

  whatever the hell is well I guess when it's someone that you were born and I [TS]

  just feel like it it it changes that it changes the feel on that I guess in [TS]

  general i guess i'm glad i wasn't born on februari 29 I think people who [TS]

  yeah you know I think people are pulling shenanigans not that have a baby on the [TS]

  day I don't know about that you're glad you're glad your birthday but you don't [TS]

  think anybody should should well you should avoid it [TS]

  yeah that's typical accidentally that's that's typical i've got i got me [TS]

  thinking I got my birthday that occurs every year rested its februari 29 for [TS]

  the rest of you suckers and I ride I might have mentioned this on there [TS]

  before have I ever told you about the time like a lot mrs. birthday [TS]

  no I don't think so for web stock two years ago three years ago last time I [TS]

  always yes yes yes the end because he because he flew around the show good [TS]

  personal friend of Michael up was going to website i was going and Michael op [TS]

  got on an airplane and in California the day before his birthday and flew over [TS]

  the Pacific and got off the plane in New Zealand the day after his birthday 10 [TS]

  minutes and Jonas came with us that trip because it coincided with a good the [TS]

  fall break for school or spring break for school and and and Jonas was just [TS]

  astounded just absolutely positive as I got was like eight or nine at the time [TS]

  just astounded that something that this could happen to you but you you could [TS]

  lose your birthday you get your kid however much you love your birthday you [TS]

  know throughout your life when you're a kid your birthday is a national holiday [TS]

  you mean it's you're getting you're not getting cheated out of you know that the [TS]

  last Snickers you know you're getting cheated out of a goddamn birthday and he [TS]

  came back and then it was like you come back and it's like you gotyou know I [TS]

  guess you miss like we it was like there was he had a bunch of days off but he [TS]

  still missed it there to school in it so it's like you know what you do on your [TS]

  trip and whatever and the whole discussion was about my dad's friend who [TS]

  lost her birthday and it and every one of his friends are like it was it and he [TS]

  like explained it and [TS]

  the teacher was like I had the international date line and like they [TS]

  got out of that they have like a little thing in school and then I kind of [TS]

  learned how it work and his class just like this is a courageous you know like [TS]

  it was like the civil civil rights issue of the third grade is absolutely [TS]

  outrageous that this man lost a birthday [TS]

  they're having it they walked out of school that day had a sit-in outside [TS]

  kept my get Michael Loftus birthday think it is however thing though it [TS]

  really hurts my head when I think about it I the International Dateline it still [TS]

  I i tried it i understand it enough but it's like it still seems like there [TS]

  should have been some point where he was somewhere where it was his birthday but [TS]

  that doesn't make it is but it doesn't make it he said but it that's what [TS]

  happened [TS]

  no you can miss look and see what happens you come back and you get an [TS]

  extra day like you'll get like to but not that no you don't you don't get to [TS]

  pick up that you don't forget to redo I want my extra day to be last Friday but [TS]

  you don't get that what else what else is supposedly coming for this event [TS]

  Apple watch straps and stuff strand that seems like good [TS]

  I don't know yeah boring [TS]

  do you have it you have a multiple straps we do have you don't worry over [TS]

  you famously don't worry you're watching where some days i do i know i read know [TS]

  i read the only 1i have you must be mistake i have the space black link [TS]

  thing and ninety-five percent of time that's the band i wear because i [TS]

  actually find that ok by metal bracelet the most comfortable but i have two of [TS]

  the four elastomer ones i have the black one which i bought 1a when I order to [TS]

  watch and i bought the orange one when they came out with new new flavors last [TS]

  fall so i have had the original and lab space black aluminum watch in the [TS]

  original black [TS]

  band and then for my birthday I got a leather band off etsy which actually has [TS]

  some pretty cool pretty cool bands yeah i think one of the reasons that those [TS]

  the you know the third party ones from like an Etsy or a small company or so [TS]

  good is that a lot of these people have been making watch straps for a while [TS]

  anyway so it's not they're not like getting into something new uh huh you [TS]

  know and they were very they were very nice to me because my wife about bought [TS]

  it for me for my birthday back in november and you know they were very [TS]

  concerned about you know like as if it send it back if it doesn't fit well we [TS]

  can you can adjust it and so you know it's like there's those that group of [TS]

  people who have been doing this for a while who already have like customer [TS]

  service right and you know they're good at that stuff [TS]

  yeah and i think that the difference between something like an iphone case is [TS]

  that you really want an iphone case to be engineered with these incredibly [TS]

  accurate tolerances and otherwise it just did you see the hard to get in and [TS]

  out of the case or flip you know it just doesn't fit right or whatever wears a [TS]

  watch strap isn't really about precise submillimeter perfection around your [TS]

  wrist because it's obviously you know even yeah even you yourself your wrist [TS]

  is slightly different diameters on different days based on you know whether [TS]

  I'm retaining exactly 0 which is usually a.m. but that's mostly uploaded your a [TS]

  lot of salty food you know and it's about what makes a watch strap a nice [TS]

  watch strap or a bracelet nice bracelet is other things and it's you know how it [TS]

  feels and you know subjective things and but you know like the leather ones it's [TS]

  you know how good are you working with leather and some of these you know like [TS]

  this little mom-and-pop places on etsy that that just work with leather their [TS]

  accounts they're really really good right it's one text a lot of them in [TS]

  Texas because they have a lot of take calcium interesting fact [TS]

  yeah but the one thing that I've really enjoyed about the watches is in it made [TS]

  me think about this compared to every other ones that have ever owned is how [TS]

  fast you can change the band yeah because they because I do this because I [TS]

  don't want to work out in my leather band but I [TS]

  where the apple watch my workout so I just quickly switched back to the floor [TS]

  on fluoroelastomer and you know it takes like five seconds it's for you pronounce [TS]

  it black place [TS]

  no it's true that you know friend for all the pics in pixel all the complaints [TS]

  that I have levied against Apple watch the one day is absolutely true the [TS]

  brilliance of that switching mechanism and it's you know [TS]

  yeah I mean I friend i mean i think all watches should we as it's a lot of the [TS]

  you know the people who are the biggest producers of other people coming from [TS]

  the watch world where they're like in some ways Apple really say what you want [TS]

  about the functionality of the watch itself leave that aside but in terms of [TS]

  some certain things like making bracelets in the design and switching [TS]

  and stuff like that they just showed that the Swiss industry had been asleep [TS]

  at the wheel for decades because they really haven't really you know like the [TS]

  top-of-the-line watch strap from 1981 is like indistinguishable from the [TS]

  top-of-the-line watchstrap now [TS]

  yeah and you need a little tool to be able to switch it and you know there's a [TS]

  really good chance that you're going to shoot the little metal spring thing [TS]

  across the room when you start to lose it right it's a that's horrible [TS]

  or like on a link bracelet on a switch most you know a relaxer amiga or tag [TS]

  shower it don't just need a little tool you need like a special screwdriver that [TS]

  you actually have to have like you really ought to use like there's a [TS]

  certain kind of glue it that you want to put in there when you put it back in you [TS]

  like to take a link out to resize it and then you put the screw back and you want [TS]

  to put forward to call it's called like loctite or something like that but it's [TS]

  like a jeweler's glue that will it's just enough so that it's never going to [TS]

  come out when you don't want it but if you eventually want to resize the watch [TS]

  again or put the link back in its not so tight that you can't get it out or strip [TS]

  the screw it's like perfectly well who the hell has that right so you're just [TS]

  to get the thing resize you're off to the jeweler you know your local corner [TS]

  jeweler or whatever [TS]

  yeah so anyway I don't know what the way what so what they were they were the one [TS]

  of the rumors was about a nylon right that they would have an island right [TS]

  which I would be very interested in yeah I have a book [TS]

  watch with a nylon band very comfortable in my opinion yeah that's what I work [TS]

  for years before i got the apple watch so yeah I'm curious to see how Apple [TS]

  does the connection to the watch on that one though because i feel like the ones [TS]

  that I've seen so far they don't quite look right because it's just the nature [TS]

  of the the connector to the watch that they just kind of didn't quite look [TS]

  right with just like a a bar sticking out of the bar the bar yeah yeah well [TS]

  that's what my I mean that's what my leather one uses in its it's ok but yeah [TS]

  but I don't think Apple we have it something with the leather ones at the [TS]

  bars don't they don't look at other places with a nylon strap I think his [TS]

  letter is typically a little thicker and it it pads out a little and where's the [TS]

  nylon ones are you know that makes the bar shoulder yeah yeah yeah it just [TS]

  somehow the the interplay between the thickness of the strap material and the [TS]

  bar just doesn't seem as right to me [TS]

  I don't know how they're going to do it that like what are they going maybe it's [TS]

  just you know Jeff Williams comes out and talks about how many you know [TS]

  millions of people are using health kid and great new apps from these airlines [TS]

  and people are dapple paying with their watch 10 million times a day or whatever [TS]

  and then here's some new bands and get off the stage which is sort of I guess [TS]

  what he did in September although they also had apple will be you know the OS [TS]

  to the apple watch os/2 to show whereas i don't think anybody is expected to [TS]

  watch us so no and maybe they have something in secret some secret new [TS]

  feature just so they have something in them out but not quite sure it seems [TS]

  well new faces would be nice and that seems like something that would be [TS]

  simple to do and let's and I that's i'm completely right that's a good idea that [TS]

  and start something that's something that if thats and what the version [TS]

  number would be watching us 2.1 or whatever that they could be they could [TS]

  have been working on in secret and it's you know no surprise that they didn't [TS]

  leak is this enough there's my question I keep thinking that after i spent all [TS]

  this money to look at every point is it isn't enough to join invited the money [TS]

  that you well is you know it's it's a phone that is in I then there's leaks of [TS]

  the case too and I think it looks interesting it's an interesting [TS]

  combination of the straight sides [TS]

  the curves and they got rid of the Sham furred edges and have just like a [TS]

  rounded edge seems like an interesting case design but fundamentally [TS]

  technology-wise it's a phone that has nothing new right it's a size we've had [TS]

  before a basic shape we've had before the camera technology that's you know [TS]

  it's beneath the cutting edge of the success and you know a screen that we've [TS]

  seen before and a nine stones chip which is great that it's the current model [TS]

  year but guess what we've already had you know we've had these funds for six [TS]

  months with a nut and then an ipad that is the exact same story it is this you [TS]

  know everything that's new and novel about it was in the 13 inch iPad pro [TS]

  that we have had since november right so how do you do how do you do what do you [TS]

  do on stage to talk about these things right like here's this thing that is [TS]

  exactly like what we announced in September but smaller [TS]

  that's a tough event like and then what [TS]

  here's what new watch straps at that seems like a tough of that even if they [TS]

  you know and at one thing about apple and I say this and I really mean it [TS]

  kudos as somebody who's especially when the town hall event my god that's like a [TS]

  coach seat in an airplane right it's not even it's tighter it's like a tighter [TS]

  fit than a coach seat in there . if they only have 48 minutes of stuff to talk [TS]

  about don't have a 48-minute event and maybe you know a five-minute video right [TS]

  but they're not going to keep you there for two hours if they don't have two [TS]

  hours of stuff I just don't know what else they're gonna do i mean i guess [TS]

  some people are wondering hoping sort of maybe that maybe there's new macbooks of [TS]

  some kind [TS]

  I don't know that how that aligns though with like what Intel is putting up Intel [TS]

  meeting the cpu company right right yeah I can't think of any other shoe that's [TS]

  in the air that is ready to drop at this point it's like it i wonder how close [TS]

  they were [TS]

  if this if there's nothing else that's coming i wonder how close they were [TS]

  internally to doing it without a an event and just having you know giving it [TS]

  to people you know review units you know in private briefings like they've done [TS]

  it [TS]

  other things when there's no [TS]

  yeah and you know maybe there's something else or maybe they you know [TS]

  they feel like this is good enough to you know maybe for reasons that escape [TS]

  me and our not obvious to me maybe there's something there's some message [TS]

  they have to give that actually you know makes for compelling event [TS]

  oh the wasn't or a an update to Apple music coming too [TS]

  ah I don't know if it's coming in march though right yeah i'm yeah i don't know [TS]

  i mean i don't know that either but i but i had heard there was a bypass [TS]

  there's an update coming and that supposedly much more understanding pull [TS]

  it out and there was a podcast that any q's on where he said that there's an [TS]

  update to the remote app for the appletv forget the cholas yeah i don't know i [TS]

  don't i don't listen to podcast i have if they want to just sort of do a [TS]

  run-through you know here's to all of our stuff and you know here's a little [TS]

  you know things big and small but little improvements were announcing to all of [TS]

  our stuff if they want to run through apple TV you know demoing the new app [TS]

  that lets you use your phone as a full-fledged you know apple remote yeah [TS]

  well and maybe maybe they have some third-party thing that's tied in right [TS]

  right i would be surprised at all if that Eddie Hughes hint that that's [TS]

  coming is a march event thing because you know it just gives them something a [TS]

  demo like so at least announced at least they would announce it and say when it's [TS]

  raining but if they had like in a game or something like that were if two [TS]

  players need to remote now there's a solution to it because one of you can [TS]

  use your phone and the other one can use a remote was that just a few weeks ago I [TS]

  ya know I can't think so yeah number which also getting he said three months [TS]

  right [TS]

  I thought he said a few months honestly ok so maybe not i mean he say he said 3i [TS]

  thought he said three but it was kind of like just like tossed about me not like [TS]

  you know he was not i don't think that date was necessarily supposed to [TS]

  indicate that that's exactly what i was thinking he may be does yeah [TS]

  I don't be made and / i really hope that he just made that up on the spot and [TS]

  just thought you know what we should have that and I really hope that like [TS]

  after the podcast seems like you have to go to the relation know we have to go to [TS]

  like some engineers and say okay you gotta make it you gotta make that iphone [TS]

  app do everything that has cracked the whip you gotta do everything that the [TS]

  remote does why because I just said we're gonna do it a few months [TS]

  well that's why they don't they didn't use to let people talk [TS]

  ok but it's funny to think about it and gives we don't have video right it was [TS]

  continually conducted by audio remotely so when we find fight federighi was like [TS]

  Craig was like giving him like the third cut motion like they're what the hell [TS]

  you like just didn't say anything because he's in a front of a hot mic but [TS]

  he's just looking at me like what the hell you talking about i don't have [TS]

  anybody working on that [TS]

  how hard could it be alright if that's a good idea doesn't like it just gives [TS]

  them a look like what it get the get those crusty road people and they will [TS]

  be fine with an announcer it seems like anything [TS]

  well i mean i like my apple TV but i don't really play games on other than [TS]

  the fear that i played when it first [TS]

  shit I've done it I don't anymore though [TS]

  yeah I become especially because I don't play games . or Firewatch oh yeah [TS]

  without that but it just seems like they need to do [TS]

  it's something else to make that $MONEY to kick-start that a little bit I is [TS]

  there anything else that was supposedly coming smaller iPhone revamped ipad [TS]

  tweaks to the apple watch line i know i mean you know there's the loft mentioned [TS]

  video streaming thing but that doesn't seem like that's yeah then that doesn't [TS]

  any close to any closer to fruition than it has been for a while now and it [TS]

  doesn't seem like something that they would do a town hall and it's again we [TS]

  don't know that it's a town hall but all that didn't seem to suggest that it is [TS]

  and the fact that everything else is so small would you know reiterate it [TS]

  yeah I said before I think I blog don't think I said on the show but if it is a [TS]

  town hall [TS]

  I think there's a very good chance that this will be the last public event for [TS]

  the press that Apple ever holds a town hall because if they stick to last [TS]

  year's schedule till the next time we hear from apple will be at WWDC and that [TS]

  will be at moscone the next time we hear from them will be in September and [TS]

  that'll be a big big big big show in a huge venue because it's going to be the [TS]

  new iphone and probably a new Apple watch to point out but anything else is [TS]

  going to do this year an iphone one is always a big deal is way too big for [TS]

  town hall and then starting last year they didn't have a little small October [TS]

  event that the September event was here is everything we've got for the rest of [TS]

  the year and privately and from other people I've heard that that was very [TS]

  that was not coincidence or circumstantial happenstance in with [TS]

  strategy it was doing events September and another one [TS]

  even if small in october is too big of a pain in the ass and attitude i would [TS]

  think so [TS]

  so then that rolls then the next time we hear from them would be march next year [TS]

  and by that time [TS]

  supposedly the new campus is going to be open right and it seems like if it's [TS]

  really close to being open it would be almost criminal to have an event at the [TS]

  old campus so you're welcome to our old crappy campus you should take you should [TS]

  you should take a big 48-ounce malt liquor just pour it out right on right [TS]

  on right on your seat when you're done it I've done that most of the event sit [TS]

  down all by 4i forgot that's here that's my signature move to your signature [TS]

  I even asked that's no I save my seat for the next event [TS]

  nobody wants to sit there and got my John back i don't think there's anything [TS]

  else coming up I don't think there's anything else maybe a macbook I don't [TS]

  know but anyway I don't you think that's it yeah could've anything weird event [TS]

  well I think it's gonna be a good event because i'm very interested in this [TS]

  round but i'm really curious how the other people's mileage maybe i'm really [TS]

  curious how they have a position the phone in addition to Mike [TS]

  previous statement that i'm interested in how they talk about the camera I'm [TS]

  interested in how they talk about the size you know because it was uh i mean [TS]

  they were never able to say starting with the six they were never able to say [TS]

  now we have a big phone small phone suck because they've always they've always [TS]

  still had the smaller ones in the lineup filling out price points so they [TS]

  couldn't really bad-mouthed them but it was also clear that ever since they went [TS]

  to the six that the that the smaller phones were years old models that were [TS]

  being moved down to different price points as they got older [TS]

  whereas now they're coming out with a 4-inch phone that you know they're [TS]

  obviously not going to say that this is a top-tier it's not the 6s mini you know [TS]

  it's it is different [TS]

  whatever they're going to call it you know in the camera by all accounts is [TS]

  not quite as good so no matter what it's you know it's some sort of couple oh but [TS]

  it's also definitely knew and it's got cutting you know cutting-edge a nine [TS]

  etcetera so i'm curious how they talk about why they why they're adding the [TS]

  4-inch phone with these current specs you'd said something you had written [TS]

  something about how you think that this phone is gonna be around for 18 to 24 [TS]

  months yeah now that thing about 36 months probably [TS]

  ok at at the third year and will be at the zero dollar price range [TS]

  yeah but i'm interested I mean it mean if they do call it the BSE without a [TS]

  number in it is this [TS]

  they're just going to keep are they going to keep upgrading that line I [TS]

  don't know in line or they just gonna just gonna have this phone and move it [TS]

  down in awake through three years ago from now and then have some other you [TS]

  know have the X yeah exactly think I was gonna say X here i was going to say it [TS]

  iphone sexy [TS]

  yeah I think that's what they'll do I think it's a one-off phone sort of like [TS]

  the the iphone 5c was I think they do that they need to pay us back on i think [TS]

  it's called the iphone i think it's called the iphone XE that [TS]

  and you and I should both get place you know i'm not- you know just like a some [TS]

  some basis . 1 % % yeah you know it doesn't even know it [TS]

  come on don't be greedy wonders at how much had a 50-50 basis much good one [TS]

  percent of my blood to get it right and it's an unknowable number [TS]

  alright let me take a break here and thank our third and final sponsor of the [TS]

  show and another one that I could not be happier to encourage you to to do [TS]

  business with our good friends at mail route now to find out more you can go to [TS]

  make their websites mail route . net / tts the initials of the talkshow tts [TS]

  smell rotten at tts look these guys are the email masters these guys the company [TS]

  is founded by and run by people who pretty much devoted their careers to [TS]

  handling email filtering email protecting your email doing email right [TS]

  and IT departments everywhere are expected to do more every year and with [TS]

  less money every year and that includes really important stuff like stopping [TS]

  spam and virus attacks and you know shitty you know phishing attacks and [TS]

  stuff like that that come through your email and end-of-life announcements for [TS]

  trusted hardware and software options that help to make this in the past make [TS]

  these decisions even more difficult right so first postini went away now MX [TS]

  logic now I've never heard of MX logic because I'm not an IT professional I can [TS]

  only guess though that it had something to do with rich you know dealing with [TS]

  your MX records for your email domain [TS]

  well whatever it was it's been announced end-of-life so who do you trust now to [TS]

  do the job well and stick around [TS]

  well I say you try mail route mail route will protect your email your company's [TS]

  email your team's email and your own hardware against spam viruses and other [TS]

  attacks because what mail route does there is no hardware to install you [TS]

  don't [TS]

  the mail routes hardware you don't install their software on your server [TS]

  what you do is if you on the domain you just change your MX records to focus the [TS]

  email have the email go to mail route first it's just a thin filter it just [TS]

  filters and then it moves right on after mile rap gets done taking all the crap [TS]

  out of your email all the spam all the phishing attacks everything like that it [TS]

  just forwards on to your existing servers the spam free email that you [TS]

  want so you don't have any of the crap on your service mail route takes care of [TS]

  it filters that they've got api's so you can script it you can you hook it up to [TS]

  whatever other systems you have connected to your email [TS]

  they've got really great interface to do things like double check you know make [TS]

  sure all the spam that they filtered really is spam that sort of thing you [TS]

  can get like an update like once a week that says here's all the top emails that [TS]

  we filtered to spam but that may be where I can the threshold so if you want [TS]

  to double-check them here you go here's a report for the weekend you can like [TS]

  eyeball it and take a look [TS]

  ah and just like a the other companies i talked about today you get a 30-day free [TS]

  trial of mail route you can just go there [TS]

  try it change your MX records filter email through mail round see how good it [TS]

  works and then after 30 days only then after you've tried for 30 days and you [TS]

  see for yourself how good this is [TS]

  then you can start start paying for it [TS]

  listeners of the show this is an amazing deal get ten percent off for the [TS]

  lifetime of their account so if you sign up through mail route . net / tts and [TS]

  you use them for 15-20 years you are still getting that ten percent off 10 [TS]

  years from now 15 years from now however long it is which is a tremendous [TS]

  tremendous deal so if you are in charge of email for your domain your company's [TS]

  domain you owe it to yourself go check out my rounded mail route . net / TS [TS]

  love these guys [TS]

  what else before we talk about it smell it smell route [TS]

  I'm sorry we've had that discussion before but well as this that game we [TS]

  could talk about root and route for that word is one of those ones where I don't [TS]

  even know how i pronounce it if I'm not thinking about it I do know that I sale [TS]

  mail i say mail route it's really contextual because you say roots and [TS]

  nobody would ever say around with a sex no one would ever say route 66 [TS]

  yeah but what if you were saying like what what route do you take to get to to [TS]

  get to moms house yeah i mean probably say route I guess I know that I [TS]

  deliberately say mail route with mail route because i feel like it would be so [TS]

  easy to think that its root like you're the root admin admin route because route [TS]

  is a very clear and networking and even if I spell it i just feel like let me [TS]

  just put in your head as mail route and then anybody out there wants to check it [TS]

  out will know how to spell it and no buddy there's no ambiguity but there's [TS]

  most of those words where there's two ways to say it I i have very strong [TS]

  opinions about the right with what about the tomato tomahto thing I've never met [TS]

  anybody in my life ever [TS]

  who says to monitor says tomorrow ya never know it's like I'm think I made [TS]

  that song that just made that up [TS]

  why was I bet some British people say tomorrow yeah like some real real jerk [TS]

  and plus it made when that was like that was like a hundred years in right and [TS]

  like it was a good time were like million like people who you know like [TS]

  when only like five percent of americans have been to college they just started [TS]

  saying words funny with it works you know like it's sort of effecting a fake [TS]

  semi sort of one toe in the stand British accent just to like sort of [TS]

  self-identify as someone who can do it college on the East Coast [TS]

  what about it was a good sign [TS]

  like you know like if you're working in a restaurant that or bar something that [TS]

  if you have a customer said something about tomorrow's you just know you're in [TS]

  for it i think stick your thumb in that drink [TS]

  did you did you have a [TS]

  did you did you have a [TS]

  a guy and like this senior year of college because there's less people [TS]

  spend their junior year abroad and there's a there's a guy who came back [TS]

  senior college had spent the urine and England and came back speaking with a [TS]

  protien know what happened to me in sixth grade and if we have a good friend [TS]

  of mine in a marquee what his dad got transferred to England after 4th grade [TS]

  and I think I know we missed all the fifth grade he might have missed part of [TS]

  fourth grade 2 he was gonna maybe was gone more than a year but then six [TS]

  screen everybody was excited because mark was back and he was popular kid [TS]

  with real nice kid smart kid too and he came back and he didn't have a British [TS]

  accent but he was his head bloody everything ok that I can get yeah [TS]

  because that's a really good that's a diameter griha that's like that's like a [TS]

  and at that age it's like it's where that you can get away you can ruin get [TS]

  away you can get away with a British whose it was and he really pulled it off [TS]

  like we made fun of my first but then it just make it happen and in your locker [TS]

  no because you couldn't pull it off it again if we tried it would look like you [TS]

  just couldn't do it but he you know it just came out of his it just came out [TS]

  naturally it's like he tanks tanks those bloody man that's a good one [TS]

  he says I mean I and i think it's i think it's from listening to those those [TS]

  minecraft oh yeah they're all English yeah that's true yeah yeah that's a [TS]

  brilliant word really is going to do english the early and also hoping I [TS]

  think the subconscious right there the brilliant the English making terrific [TS]

  use of the word bro we do have that word [TS]

  yeah but they use it and we have bloody to but we don't [TS]

  have it in the know but it's not used an omelet it it's just so smack-dab in the [TS]

  middle of boy it sure feels like a swear word and no I cannot make it I can make [TS]

  a compelling argument that it is this where but it just happened it's not here [TS]

  that's nice word yeah Firewatch oh man I don't play again and I don't know if [TS]

  that makes me a better critic or not critical but a better person to tell you [TS]

  to go buy this game and go play it or or not but I think it kind of does it's [TS]

  like I just don't have the mindset for I just don't have the well yeah I think it [TS]

  depends on the kind of gamer you are banned if you're like you know if you're [TS]

  someone who likes first-person shooters exclusively might not like well maybe [TS]

  you would know maybe you'd like it as a break [TS]

  well sure yes that's perfectly possible if you are exclusively addicted to that [TS]

  particular chakra ever be nice you know and I read some of the comments on steam [TS]

  from some people which you know just made me angry because it wasn't exactly [TS]

  the game that they are continually playing all the time [TS]

  instead it actually has a story and it was interesting instead of just like [TS]

  shooting zombies repeatedly but did anybody who's anybody misled i mean i [TS]

  don't understand i guess you well there was that there was a there was a weird [TS]

  sort of ridiculous situation with this game right because there was someone [TS]

  who-who wrote a review and i think it was on steam who was hurt [TS]

  it was in the form someplace my camera was on steam or what but it was saying [TS]

  you know i paid the seventeen dollars or whatever and I had a good time playing [TS]

  it for the amount of time that I spent playing yet but i'm thinking about [TS]

  getting my trying to get my money back [TS]

  you paint the money you like the game and you're thinking about getting so [TS]

  high i don't i want to scrupulously avoid spoilers [TS]

  I mean the basic gist of the game doesn't spoil anything and it's pretty [TS]

  obvious that you play a I don't know what they are and you're not really a [TS]

  forest ranger what do you have fire watch her yeah you're you know you're [TS]

  gonna shower and here in the Pacific Northwest and new you know your job is [TS]

  to get so I think it's a why you supposed to land and the story unfolds [TS]

  and it is a fascinating to me it's number one it's a beautiful game it [TS]

  really is just drop dead gorgeous and what's-his-name olly olly moss we're [TS]

  seeing the Holy Mosques star wars posters i guarantee i think i believe i [TS]

  have yeah I'm pretty sure that i have so Ali mas worked on setting that the [TS]

  graphics of the game to some degree and it really shows the whole team though [TS]

  it's just a gorgeous game you just cannot i would watch a short film or not [TS]

  short film animated film I'd watch a feature-length film that looked exactly [TS]

  like four watch it it's just got a game and just look well I think the thing [TS]

  that I like so much about it is how it draws you into the game yeah because it [TS]

  starts that doesn't start with any graphics at all it just starts up by [TS]

  asking you certain questions about choices that are going to make it except [TS]

  that it's all setting up the story it's getting you it's drawing you into the [TS]

  story and it's it you're you know by the by the end of answering questions you [TS]

  know your your choked up now feel like such often a melancholy frame of mind [TS]

  alright and the game is so well written [TS]

  it's it really and it's it's not trying to be a movie it's not trying to be a [TS]

  choose your own adventure book it's a game and you're playing it and you're [TS]

  there and you've got you know like [TS]

  just a fundamental difference from like a movie is you know if it takes a long [TS]

  time to walk from A to B it takes you a long time to walk for me to be that you [TS]

  don't cut you know I mean you cut days out of the adventure but you know it's [TS]

  your there and so you've got like this you know first person view that feels [TS]

  like you're there it feels that you're doing stuff but it's obviously you're in [TS]

  a story that is really well written with some really intriguing characters and [TS]

  add incredible acting talent the guy who plays the voice of the the protagonist [TS]

  it was the guy from Mad Men and played Harry crane on mad men rich sommer he's [TS]

  just tastes terrific he was driven mad men and he's terrific here it's it's a [TS]

  really remarkable character and the other characters in the film remarkable [TS]

  to and the mystery is truly interesting and it's just done evocative yeah and it [TS]

  leaves [TS]

  I mean I hope hopefully for me I mean I hope it leaves enough on the table that [TS]

  they'll be something follow yeah I i could not really hope i really hope i [TS]

  would I mean I would shell out but we can immediately [TS]

  yeah since I figured out that i can play it on my kids computer so it is also a [TS]

  little adult i but not well yeah I mean and that was one of my questions I i [TS]

  asked cable i was trying to figure out if it was before I put it on my kids [TS]

  computer what a picture it was a game he's 12 and in its you know it's it's [TS]

  very thoughtful and anything good in a good way [TS]

  oops sorry i think in a good way it's thoughtful i mean only I think the only [TS]

  thing that some people might object to is there's some swearing into it and it [TS]

  there's actually a fair amount of script but but there's not much other than that [TS]

  I think that's I think that yeah is bad for a kid no I let Jonas play and I was [TS]

  really really interested if he would take to it or not because Jonas his [TS]

  other interests involved games like destiny [TS]

  and a little bit little bit more action-packed I he I tell you what I [TS]

  think and I he took to it immediately not maybe not like the I think maybe [TS]

  that like you said the opening works just text may be struck him is weird and [TS]

  we were watching together I watched him play when he and and I said well maybe [TS]

  the game is loading maybe it's downloading content or something in me [TS]

  put up with and does it doesn't take a long time but then once the game started [TS]

  I think he was a little skeptical of a game where there's no weapons and or at [TS]

  least it doesn't seem like there's any weapons but the graphic quality [TS]

  absolutely opened his mind to it because it's like he could see that wow this is [TS]

  a good-looking game and he talked about anything he beat the game in the office [TS]

  time it took me to beat it [TS]

  yeah I finally was and I was not as good at orienteering as I thought it was no [TS]

  me neither and Jonas I was that was that was probably buy my most difficult part [TS]

  of the game was just like with where the hell am I really needed like a like a [TS]

  full-time compass or something like a like a parrot on my shoulder and we want [TS]

  to go there were dogs are at this time you should be another like an in-app [TS]

  purchase there were times there are a handful too i don't know because I've [TS]

  only III and I don't have to sit there and replayed and replayed it so i don't [TS]

  know but there are times where you your care and I only this is where your [TS]

  character has a walkie-talkie all the time and you can contact and at times [TS]

  were where I I called for help like hey where am i and i don't think that [TS]

  everybody got their i think i might have been particularly lost and that they [TS]

  were there's like a hey if you you know X amount of minutes have gone by where [TS]

  you were supposed to do [TS]

  why and your this met far away hey why don't you have a call and get a hand it [TS]

  but i think i got some help from the game a couple times because I really [TS]

  lost it was like one time I came back and I was like I was like oh I found [TS]

  another I found another fire Watchtower who never realize it was fine i thought [TS]

  i was it not alive but I thought that I was like all the way it like the far [TS]

  north of the map like I was all the way north that far into the map [TS]

  and the Edit turns out I was right in the middle as I got no wonder I'm not [TS]

  finding this anyway I cannot say enough good things about this game i found that [TS]

  for 20 bux it was extraordinarily fun to play [TS]

  yeah just a remarkable and for those of you who don't know this game it's from a [TS]

  game developer called Campo Santo and that they announced a few years ago they [TS]

  partnered with our friends at Panik who are a bunch of weird sort of militants [TS]

  who rocked occupies a design studio in portland and are in a long-running [TS]

  standoff with the federal government that's who i was talking about panic [TS]

  related but they're really nice guys that's the difference between Panik and [TS]

  some of these other people they are also against the government forcing Apple to [TS]

  unlock right there but they're really nice people at panic and they are just [TS]

  incredibly obsessive about good design and they've clearly met like their game [TS]

  making soul mates in campo santo because the game is so exquisitely detailed just [TS]

  little things like did you check out like the some of the books [TS]

  yeah you can I turn around there's there's so many little details like that [TS]

  i mean i didn't I i need to go back and play it again because I skipped a lot of [TS]

  that stuff just to because i was interested in advancing the story so [TS]

  when I think there's a whole other layer there because I one of these I did after [TS]

  playing the game was I watched a YouTube video by someone who you know spends her [TS]

  time playing games and was going into great detail about like speculation [TS]

  about things that were not explicitly said in the game and it was very [TS]

  interesting I thought I mean I don't think it all of it i mean i'm certain [TS]

  that all of it is not what are the odds are all that all that speculation is not [TS]

  leading somewhere but a lot of it what are the odds that you could find that [TS]

  youtube video and I could put it on [TS]

  I i will make that happen one way because I would a like the ones that [TS]

  video be I yeah I I would implore everybody watching the listening to the [TS]

  show [TS]

  don't look at anything else about if you really if you're thinking maybe you want [TS]

  to play it just get this game and put it on your Mac get you can get it from [TS]

  steam and just play it play it first and then you can watch all you can get it [TS]

  from steam for mac or pc and you can get it for ps4 on the PlayStation Store [TS]

  can't play it on xbox and last but one way or the other you can play a tyro [TS]

  cannot recommend it highly enough i really was blown away and i was [TS]

  skeptical just because I just don't play games and that was gonna buy it anyway [TS]

  just so I can see what it you know because I know the panic guys I want to [TS]

  see it and I'm genuinely curious because the game sounds so unlike any game i've [TS]

  ever heard before I just found myself i really liked was compelled to finish [TS]

  this game really and I really really felt you know yeah i was i was in almost [TS]

  a but not a state of frenzy but like it's not as one of those things right [TS]

  like when i read that like when i read the Martian when i read the book the [TS]

  Martian I mean I read it and it's of incidents not a long book I mean it's [TS]

  not a terribly long game but I was very goal-oriented in trying to defend night [TS]

  because I wanted to see what was going to happen and there's no moments when [TS]

  you're supposed to feel certain things maybe you feel sad or whatever and I [TS]

  really felt really it it's yeah it's just a testimony to the writing and it's [TS]

  it to such a great scenario some of the details that details of the thing remind [TS]

  me just a little just a little bit like sort of like the way did you watch the [TS]

  show lost [TS]

  yeah we sort of like la Rionda there'd be like right [TS]

  brands brand names or something like that or just the way you know something [TS]

  was set up and the way that there was like a mystery and some of those things [TS]

  in the mystery might have happened a few years ago and it really reminded me lost [TS]

  and in in a in a very very good way like I mean that is nothing but a compliment [TS]

  mhm so anyway go puts but better possibly better stress over with the [TS]

  overall overall better script and I mean you know I get there are certain [TS]

  episodes of loss that bring me to tears [TS]

  however they may think you know if you look at the [TS]

  mark over all the services they kind of start a more cohesive like lost a [TS]

  version of loss that was the length of fire watch might have been the best [TS]

  thing ever [TS]

  I wonder how good you could do I wonder if you took that off five or six seasons [TS]

  of lost and you just edited it down you know to like maybe like 20 total [TS]

  operating took out all the two dead eyes just edit it down to about 20 episodes [TS]

  you might have one of the best shows ever made [TS]

  anyway I cannot wait to see what else these guys come up with i know that [TS]

  games take a long time so it will be awhile but boy they really hit it out of [TS]

  the park with us and I know that they've had some success i know that they're [TS]

  they're doing pretty well i'm ninety-nine percent sure cables a star [TS]

  tweeted that they they made their made the investment to make the game back on [TS]

  day one which is great i think that you know because I did things take years to [TS]

  make so it's a big big investment of time and any kind of big investment of [TS]

  time is obviously a big investment money so I'm happy to hear that but i really [TS]

  hope that this game gets legs and sort of gets like a little word of mouth and [TS]

  just spreads because it really deserves to yeah i know they thought me and one [TS]

  thing I'd be so glad I thought of it it really reminded me of there was in the [TS]

  latter years of his life [TS]

  Roger Ebert was involved in some debate on whether video games could be art and [TS]

  he cited on the argument that no they're not are not in a way that movies are and [TS]

  you know I think part of it is you you know a little curmudgeonly is you know [TS]

  he's a little older and you know and part of it is i think that it's it you [TS]

  know like any good debater he you know he took a strong opinion because it [TS]

  makes for a good argument he wasn't a jerk about it in my opinion you know I [TS]

  disagree with them even if someone who doesn't play games but I thought it was [TS]

  interesting I this to me i had this thought and I completed fire watch that [TS]

  I wish Roger Ebert was still around because i would love ya love to present [TS]

  Firewatch to him as the counter-argument to can video game be art because this if [TS]

  this is an art than nothing is art it makes you feel if I you know a dude what [TS]

  is art is obviously it's [TS]

  it we should talk about about your hair laughs last year college you know from [TS]

  good can't find the kid from college you picked up a british accent we'll go [TS]

  we're at 2 hours and 15 minutes let's talk about what is or I boy I would find [TS]

  it very difficult for anybody to come up with a definition of art that doesn't [TS]

  fit this game or at least if your version of art it would quality would [TS]

  include novels and would include feature films that damn in the way that if those [TS]

  things can be art and i think most people would agree that they can be then [TS]

  the game Firewatch is art yeah which in and go getting back to my original [TS]

  comment i mean i think is that that is why some people don't like it is because [TS]

  it is our yeah I died and that is not i mean in their definition of gameplay is [TS]

  not right it's a little bit more like sports you know [TS]

  yeah perhaps right although if you watch stuff on Korean where I don't use sports [TS]

  are becoming art by so obviously all these dancer know there's blurred lines [TS]

  you know there's blurred lines between all these things but that you know it's [TS]

  it's to me it's III just can't say enough good things about it and I [TS]

  anybody's listen to this show for a long time I don't know that I've ever talked [TS]

  about a game on the show ever and this is episode 148 so it's it's rare and if [TS]

  this is a Game Boy that you know and I tried looking around ass in syracuse of [TS]

  course who is a real gamer and really you know I think shockingly knows you [TS]

  know every video game it's ever been made [TS]

  he had some suggestions I was like are there other games like this like am I am [TS]

  I missing out like is there like an entirely yeah they're definitely I mean [TS]

  there definitely are [TS]

  I'm what was that home not home alone there's a game where you basically come [TS]

  into a house and and it's empty and you're trying to figure out what [TS]

  happened yeah I don't know what that is I think that might have been the one [TS]

  who's talking to play but yeah that's supposed to be free go to so it's it's [TS]

  denim [TS]

  I don't know can't say enough good things about it anything else you want [TS]

  to talk about [TS]

  no I just want my phone just want my small John want my small phone back jon [TS]

  mullis want to swap back huh [TS]

  everybody can get all the bolts that they want at invensys had their website [TS]

  which is very nice website . common and i'm going to say . now you pass a done [TS]

  you pick take your pic you gotta go to very nice website . net and you can get [TS]

  all the multi want their you got the twitter feed which is just at molt's and [TS]

  your your other big podcast the one it's turning this car around that sometimes [TS]

  episode 99 already holy crap we a hundred we just did a hundred i think [TS]

  that just came out the other end Linkin i was i was looking at very nice website [TS]

  i know i gotta get going so you got turning this car around [TS]

  that's with little slow in a big weekend [TS]

  that's the show you do with john armstrong and you got the rebound with [TS]

  the with Dan Morgan where you talk that's what now turning this car around [TS]

  is the one you talked about parenting what it's like to have kids in the [TS]

  modern you know modern world very funny stuff from st. really terrible parents [TS]

  question [TS]

  yeah you've been on the app and in a room talking about that parents and then [TS]

  the night I let my kid Firewatch before I even checked was in the game [TS]

  I it is the rebound where you talk about technology and it's you know you know [TS]

  yet more like a ripoff of the show [TS]

  yeah pretty much and that's with the damn morn [TS]

  oh I'm gonna hear about you can get all those you have to do is google and then [TS]

  just type in dover castle whatever but if you just go to very nice website . [TS]

  net you'll find links to all those shows i'll put the links up eventually [TS]

  thank you for your time John I really appreciate it as always it's always a [TS]

  pleasure [TS]

  alright have a good week [TS]