The Talk Show

128: ‘Did You Ever Take a Photograph?’, With Guest Matthew Panzarino

 

  do i cnt last night I didn't aden was busy last night my daughter's six is [TS]

  taking care of her own oh that's terrible [TS]

  yeah it's a little bit of a cough kind of modeling croup kinda thing so senior [TS]

  three so it happens I get around that age it's sort of like when they get [TS]

  adventures [TS]

  exactly certain things putting on things and I'm helping with this well in the [TS]

  end you know they're always putting things in their mouths but it's like at [TS]

  three they can I find it amazing new places to go to put things right exactly [TS]

  have their ambulatory and they can climb now exactly the first are moving around [TS]

  and you can just sort of like you know clean up a room in a bedroom where [TS]

  everything within reach is reasonably clean and then you know that's good and [TS]

  in 1983 they can get anywhere either you go pull clean room where it's just bare [TS]

  walls to the ceiling or you just gonna have to roll with the punches so it's [TS]

  weird I feel like there's a weird combination August is always a weird [TS]

  time every industry but intact in particular it's always slow in some ways [TS]

  but I feel like this year it's it's interesting and a couple of ways [TS]

  well and wine and I just saw this is right I'll be I'm sure you saw the [TS]

  article as I saw it on TechCrunch is that all the drama Twitter war last [TS]

  great as we record today August 7th the news today is that Chris Sacca whether [TS]

  they come out spray [TS]

  outspoken investor where ya think it is that he gets a fair characterization I [TS]

  doubt he'd talk too much of that lol I don't put words into it but it seems to [TS]

  have no qualms in saying what he believes is the right thing to do there [TS]

  I would also say it would be fair to describe him as influential investor [TS]

  Chris aka- I you know [TS]

  hehe sort of maybe like are intact he sort of like the nice guy version of I [TS]

  can get sicker like right I mean I can I can is sort of a bulldozer I think the [TS]

  exact address to talk to the right people and they look these are the [TS]

  things that connect the way people that are whatever I mean you notice that this [TS]

  is the first time is really kind of come out i mean obviously is set alot about [TS]

  Twitter product and he's written medium posts about what a product and all that [TS]

  stuff either certain things they need to do with their product which is fine [TS]

  everybody has opinions and you know he's known the product for a long time but [TS]

  first a museum and explicitly said like it should [TS]

  hired jack for the CEO spot and I think he does work a lot behind the scenes to [TS]

  kind of connect the dots and try to get the right things to happen with water as [TS]

  he really cares about it but this is the first time is actually kind of come out [TS]

  and said in public on Twitter hey yes you heard jack and you know it seems [TS]

  like there's a whole Twitter CEO thing is such as soap opera i mean you really [TS]

  could not write a more soap opera style story because like a real soap opera the [TS]

  characters don't go away like they've gone through like that right [TS]

  bunch of CEOs and everybody who has ever been the Twitter CEO remains on the [TS]

  board right yeah exactly in the they come back from like oh no they weren't [TS]

  dead they were in the basement like strapped to a gurney and you know a [TS]

  doctor was experimenting on the man now you know your cousin is back and he's in [TS]

  love with you or whatever so you've always got these you know former co [TS]

  founders and CEOs on the board looking over your shoulder I mean even with Dick [TS]

  Costolo you know that he's you know he's he's I guess he is no longer the CEO [TS]

  but he's you know you go right to the book yeah he's on the board I mean I [TS]

  think that Twitter has a unique history in a lot of the people that were really [TS]

  invested in it or not it was not brought on because they were business people [TS]

  because there's this sort of just two old way of thinking about leadership in [TS]

  the valley and depending on the Investor depending on the stage of the company [TS]

  lot of other things you get varying opinions about what's the right thing to [TS]

  do for his leadership goes but there's a huge sort of cadre of people in the [TS]

  valley that follow and and really closely adhere to this technical [TS]

  foundered leadership mentality rate like a person who came up with the idea and [TS]

  maybe even wrote some code in the original concept already been crafted [TS]

  the first first MVP you know product is the person that you leave the company [TS]

  cuz they know what the best they know the underlying sort of purpose that they [TS]

  saw behind it and they can guide that purpose through whatever permutations [TS]

  become if they're in that leadership position whereas outside the valley and [TS]

  even in the valley this there's some folks who are kind of coming around to [TS]

  this type of mentality but outside the value often see somebody being brought [TS]

  in purely because there are good see if they have no idea what the technical [TS]

  aspects of the product until maybe even at first they may not even use it they [TS]

  mean barely noted exist in Gentilly until the CEO search starts happening or [TS]

  whatever but then they get brought in because they are a good see like a good [TS]

  cleanup hitter you know you don't bring them in for their fielding prowess [TS]

  necessarily but you're gonna bring them into to order order order to bring bring [TS]

  them back to home base that's their skill they don't have the other skills [TS]

  Eric Schmidt might be a canonical example of that in terms of you know why [TS]

  did why did Google bring him [TS]

  in in 04 when they did you know that that what was Eric Schmidt's talent that [TS]

  you know I think bottom line that he was seen as being a good CEO and that that's [TS]

  what Google that the time needed and you know it's hard to if that's if you want [TS]

  to take that that stance it's hard to argue against that whatever you think of [TS]

  you know Eric Schmidt and you know Google they certainly have been very [TS]

  successful under him and it seems to have worked well for them [TS]

  yeah me think that larry obviously taking over a lot of people saw that as [TS]

  a sort of Reclamation and resurrection of some Google missions as you know [TS]

  you'll notice that a lot of the experimental programs you know really [TS]

  took on a new life and and respond up after that happened I think that there [TS]

  is something to be said for both know I think that getting your financial [TS]

  underpinnings in order and your business plans aligned with the stuff that's [TS]

  going to help you grow and spend money in the long run is a huge thing with [TS]

  Google there's essentially two ways to think about it you think about Google in [TS]

  terms of weight makes money which is actually quite boring boring to me but [TS]

  not so bad take people might take offense but now they're doing and that's [TS]

  fine but it's fairly straightforward the way they make money is that about the [TS]

  way they spend their money is fascinating [TS]

  endlessly fascinating to me and so that that is like kind of the dual role those [TS]

  two years played it yet and I think the other factor there though is that there [TS]

  was never any kind of drama or tension between our see at least from the [TS]

  outside certainly didn't seem like there was between Larry and Sergey and Eric [TS]

  Schmidt that it was a crime you know that they were seen as three guys who [TS]

  led the company and you know the fact that they brought in a CEO didn't really [TS]

  steer the company away from what it was founded to do you know and that those [TS]

  guys were still there and we're obviously heavily influential throughout [TS]

  that whole period where it was the CEO and obviously even more influential now [TS]

  that larry is the CEO but you know so I think you could see Google sort of [TS]

  almost like both sides of the argument that they did well by bringing in a CEO [TS]

  but they also did well by keeping the founders there in a significant [TS]

  leadership positions [TS]

  yeah I agree agree and and Twitter dozen doesn't necessarily have that history it [TS]

  has this kind of weird history where they bring people in [TS]

  there's there's sort of internal contentions and fights about who really [TS]

  should be in charge regardless of who actually holds the CEO spot [TS]

  well there's even conventional Twitter over who the actual founder is you know [TS]

  is it was it Jack Dorsey who or Evan Williams you know and I you know what to [TS]

  name Nick Bilton wrote a whole book you know about the trend it I said all that [TS]

  argument right and i think that this is a good time into that hole you know what [TS]

  do you do [TS]

  who do you bring in to run a company thing like the founder of the technical [TS]

  founder or person knows how to run a business and I think that there's [TS]

  something there's an alignment there because part of buildings book and this [TS]

  is very this is a good thing that he pointed out that it I think more people [TS]

  should understand about the valley is that there's this myth of the sole [TS]

  creator rate of the the mythical creator and that's not unique to the valley at [TS]

  think that a lot of companies have had this history especially in America where [TS]

  we've kind of value is sort of like entrepreneurial spirit and I found I [TS]

  made this thing with my hands and so you get this creed or meth spun up where the [TS]

  story becomes less and less complex overtime until eventually it's this guy [TS]

  made this thing but in reality if you drill down to the roots of the thing [TS]

  it's these twelve people made this thing in varying ways this person was an [TS]

  influencer this person said no to the very thing that that would have made it [TS]

  great and you know whatever right you can you can burrow down to all the [TS]

  little teeny decisions are made in the origin but it's very very rare to [TS]

  actually have a sole creator [TS]

  pan out if you brought down to the origins of most of these companies [TS]

  think Twitter is one of those things where you had people it was such a [TS]

  nebulous start because it was side project of another company which was [TS]

  itself kind of flailing and deciding what it wanted to do and all this stuff [TS]

  and then you had on top of that you have egos and you have people who are [TS]

  obviously incredibly talented but also eloquent and you know have a passion for [TS]

  it and it wasn't just day who made it so who gets the equity it was who made it [TS]

  so who gets to only create you know I think that's almost as important as any [TS]

  other currency in Silicon Valley because it funds future ventures and your [TS]

  ability to get funding for future companies and that sort of thing so I [TS]

  think that Jack kind of came out the winner there for a time although people [TS]

  have acknowledged you know as efforts more and more as time goes on and of [TS]

  course there are plenty of people I mean people forget you know just always been [TS]

  there 10 years yeah you know it's just a guy who kind of came out of nowhere and [TS]

  I think that there is a big difference between every key cut short shrift a lot [TS]

  and he was kinda handed a bag of bones and asked to do things that weren't [TS]

  necessarily possible I am NOT claiming insider knowledge on any of this it just [TS]

  you know observation and discussion and all this stuff over time it seems like [TS]

  you know nobody ever told me was a jerk or so does know what he's doing [TS]

  I never ever heard that in the history of reporting on Twitter and it was you [TS]

  know over the product is all over the place in the kent said what to do in [TS]

  this and that the other thing which is that you know things it could be a [TS]

  reason for that [TS]

  yeah I always come back to I just really think that there's history in its [TS]

  natural I don't even know how to be avoided but it with investors want some [TS]

  company has unbelievable success I mean just you know like if you got in you [TS]

  know boom that you've stock explodes and you make tons of money [TS]

  and the company starts making enormous profits and it's you know who rise all [TS]

  around that investors see want to look for somebody else and say you should do [TS]

  what they did and I always do know Apple's company that I you know [TS]

  intimately familiar with and that to me was twenty years ago this whole argument [TS]

  of you gotta stop you gotta get out of the hardware game your software [TS]

  companies to license your OS which was more or less you should just do it [TS]

  microsoft does because Microsoft was extraordinarily successful at that time [TS]

  right and it was too late at buy at a certain point from an investor's [TS]

  standpoint it was too late to make lots of money on Microsoft has it already [TS]

  gotten huge so why not you know get into a ball and have Apple do it they did [TS]

  even though that doesn't make any sense it would not make any sense for you know [TS]

  doing what these people were saying would actually lead to the result of [TS]

  Apple having become a Microsoft style success and in fact when they dip their [TS]

  toes in it it was a disaster with the cloning and stuff like that it made a [TS]

  bad situation worse there's nothing to do and to me that anyway where I'm going [TS]

  with that is to me [TS]

  twitter is Apple and Facebook as Microsoft and that argument oh right [TS]

  yeah I definitely think you're right there and I think there's plenty of [TS]

  people that are looking at in both companies have made faints towards [TS]

  duplicating and/or cloning certain features of each other and for the most [TS]

  part those don't pan out well because the line you know what the company that [TS]

  the core of what the company is it takes to this you can you can put up there's a [TS]

  stillbirth cartoon that gives me a little bit of a cough but it did I found [TS]

  tweeted in my feed it was so so germane to this it's from 2012 but the first [TS]

  first panel it's the boss yet dilbert and the dog and the boss right in the [TS]

  dog is the consultant the boss says I had a management consultant to teach us [TS]

  something he calls backwards causation and silver sitting there looking at him [TS]

  a second panel the dog is the consultant always says I studied the most [TS]

  successful companies if you imitate them you'll feel as if you have a strategy in [TS]

  his number one sponsored golf tournament so you see you can meet celebrities [TS]

  profits a week in that lake [TS]

  yeah it's it's a stephane aside but it really is so true [TS]

  you get a lot of these things where people go this was successful so you [TS]

  should imitate this and they don't ask you know why was it successful or why [TS]

  was it successful in that particular area that's a big thing it's a big comic [TS]

  the third cut the third panel is obviously the joke and it is kind of [TS]

  funny but it's the second panel that sets up the joke that's actually sort of [TS]

  the insight into the bad strategy of a lot of companies right cuz it's true [TS]

  that's it's the it's funny because it's true if you imitate them you'll feel as [TS]

  if you have a strategy right it's much easier than doing the hard thinking [TS]

  about what the sole of your company is and how to expand that you know goal [TS]

  without giving up that soul that that's a much much more difficult conversation [TS]

  to have then you don't just this is really cool when we test that out a be [TS]

  tested see if it works and if it works great if it doesn't we'll just try [TS]

  something some of the company to this that this to me is the bad him that Dick [TS]

  Costolo was dealt when he took over was that he was coming into a world where [TS]

  Facebook was heading towards a an IPO their IPO was successful they didn't [TS]

  have done a tremendous job this is Facebook tremendous job pivoting to go [TS]

  from being a web company to a mobile company including not just at the usage [TS]

  including making money there I think they're almost certain I just read that [TS]

  they now make more money on mobile than they do from desktop I believe so yes [TS]

  huge amount and there around like overnight in the night if if they [TS]

  haven't quite passed it yet the trend lines are clear that did it either just [TS]

  happened early in the last quarter [TS]

  roared going down the trend trend line is absolutely to set that they're going [TS]

  to make more money on mobile which is exactly makes sense because people are [TS]

  using mobile more so it makes it so that they've done great and they have this [TS]

  unbelievable sized users you know they've got I don't know over a billion [TS]

  active users around the world and it's growing 65% by the way [TS]

  65% or 66 percent of their total revenue from mobile right so it has a year and [TS]

  only and it's it's gonna keep going I think I think it's going to go up to 70 [TS]

  75 80 you know unbelievable user base lots of profit it's not even you know [TS]

  like oh you know hopefully you know they've got all the users and they've [TS]

  got all the revenue eventually they'll make a profit know they've already got [TS]

  the Prophet it's a great business and Twitter came of age in the shadow of [TS]

  Facebook and you know everybody made out with Facebook and Twitter is sort of [TS]

  like facebook in a general sense to social network right it's you know that [TS]

  one could argue that it's actually a different thing oh I think eww could but [TS]

  it also falls in that bucket you know it's certainly more similar than you [TS]

  know you could say it's apples to oranges but it's it's not like comparing [TS]

  apples to you know a paintbrush [TS]

  it's clearly you know they're in the same section of the grocery store and [TS]

  you know and so therefore it was your Twitter should be as successful measured [TS]

  in those ways you know stock price revenue profits users active users as [TS]

  Facebook and I and i think the fundamental truth is that Facebook the [TS]

  nature of Facebook is more compelling to more people just regular people on [TS]

  Twitter I think Twitter is a phenomenal idea i i honestly to me it has changed [TS]

  my life I I honestly cannot can't even imagine I i it's hard for me to remember [TS]

  you know what it was like before Twitter and to me it's always very funny to [TS]

  think about it because it it [TS]

  Twitter and the iPhone more or less came out around the same time [TS]

  I got signed up for Twitter in late 2006 and really kind of you know dug into it [TS]

  throughout 2007 which was the year the iPhone came out and so it's you know my [TS]

  life pre 2007 I remember it but it seems a log of it for sure it seems [TS]

  unimaginable though I'd really does even just how I did during fireball seems [TS]

  very strange to me because an enormous part of writing during fireball to me is [TS]

  what I do on my iPhone and a lot of what I do my iPhone as Twitter in terms of [TS]

  just finding links and getting feedback and and stuff like that I think it's a [TS]

  tremendous product I just don't think I think fundamentally though it's not as [TS]

  compelling to the mass market as Facebook and yet the demand was there [TS]

  from investors for it to be and they've twisted and contorted it to sort of make [TS]

  it as Facebook as they can while still being true to what Twitter is and it to [TS]

  me it's just they've just perverted what what Twitter should be yeah I mean I [TS]

  think this is a couple ways to look at that I i understand that argument and I [TS]

  agree with it for the most part but I think that their ways to to look at [TS]

  Twitter as a product that it actually allows you to serve both of those [TS]

  concepts serve the Twitter concept which is sort of a real-time pillar of the [TS]

  internet you don't you don't you don't delete her from the internet [TS]

  well if Twitter today if like ever the company disappeared just some massive [TS]

  boldly it turns out there was a Ponzi scheme and everybody in it is broke and [TS]

  there's no money anywhere and whatever right and every shares worth $0.01 and [TS]

  and everybody cashes out and whatever you know the buildings empty tomorrow [TS]

  something else would fill that void right it is something we did not [TS]

  understand we needed out of the Internet until it existed and now that we know [TS]

  that it exists it's impossible to deal with them so it's it's sort of one of [TS]

  those you know sort of his cat things right I keep eating never saw her in the [TS]

  box which you care that she didn't have her maybe maybe not [TS]

  probably not right but now that you know it exists [TS]

  lists there's absolutely no way that the internet exists without that because [TS]

  this it's a it's a fundamental underpinning of the way the internet [TS]

  works now not necessarily that every user of internet users it obviously not [TS]

  because it's hoped he wouldn't have the problems that they're having but that [TS]

  real-time feed influences the core internet users that drive the experience [TS]

  for so many other people like news gatherers and newsmakers and people that [TS]

  understand the way the internet works and the way that the world works in ways [TS]

  that they need to broadcast or feel that they want to broadcast I mean if you [TS]

  look at like two black labs matter movement and like dear David castan in [TS]

  like these and these folks that are that are on the ground in these various [TS]

  cities and and Windows body cambodia's come out and make it they get splashed [TS]

  all over Twitter and get shared and then shared out to news sites I mean those [TS]

  movements would lack a mi not that they wouldn't exist you know human beings are [TS]

  resilient but it would definitely not happy amplification that they do and you [TS]

  know that enables it right it right it is a tremendous news service it's [TS]

  different like what Twitter does that unique is just different and unique and [TS]

  it just measures differently than Facebook and it might end up being and I [TS]

  thought I I honestly think this is true it might end up being less profitable [TS]

  than Facebook but that doesn't mean this is this is when I'm getting it it [TS]

  doesn't mean that Twitter isn't popular and can't be profitable just not [TS]

  profitable up to expect unreasonable expectations that have been set yet [TS]

  decided that for sure I don't think that they're ever going to reach Facebook [TS]

  scale or if they do it'll be in a in a way we don't even see ya there was I [TS]

  just brought it up and it's covered by a get Adobe Flash Player thing here [TS]

  which we can get too soon anyway it was a thing from last december where [TS]

  Williams was asked on stage about Instagram having more active users [TS]

  Twitter and he said I don't give a shit if instagram has more users and then [TS]

  went on to note that obviously was got the headlines but yeah there was some [TS]

  contact the scene there but overall I think the sentiment is kind of accuracy [TS]

  that's what they need to feel here I'll quote unquote Evan Williams it's not too [TS]

  long [TS]

  here's what he said it's a question of Brett versus depth why is users the only [TS]

  thing we talked about the crazy thing Facebook has done an amazing job of [TS]

  establishing that as the Metric for Wall Street no one ever talks about what is a [TS]

  monthly active user I believe it's the case that if you use Facebook Connect if [TS]

  you use an app that you logged into with your considered a Facebook user whether [TS]

  or not you ever launched the Facebook app or went to facebook.com so what does [TS]

  that mean it's become so abstract to be meaningless something you did cause some [TS]

  data in their servers to be recorded for the month so I think we're on the wrong [TS]

  path if you think and I think what you mean by that is where we as an industry [TS]

  on the wrong path about measuring monthly active users is this [TS]

  back to Evan waves quote if you think about the impact twitter has on the [TS]

  world vs Instagram it's pretty significant it's at least apples to [TS]

  oranges twitter is what we wanted it to be its this real-time information [TS]

  network for everything in the world that happens on Twitter important stuff [TS]

  brakes on Twitter and world leaders have conversations on Twitter if that's [TS]

  happening I frankly don't give a shit if instagram has more people looking at [TS]

  pretty pictures and quote and that to me is a very compelling argument and I hope [TS]

  that that you know the fact that Evan Williams is still on the board and has [TS]

  some influence that it's you know my big fear about Twitter is that they're going [TS]

  to bring in somebody who is going to destroy what Twitter is good for in a [TS]

  vain attempt to emulate Facebook right [TS]

  yeah I mean I think that there is a solution and I'm know you know I'm just [TS]

  a dude who writes about things right this is easy for me to say and hard for [TS]

  anybody else to do but I think that there is a solution that solution is to [TS]

  treat login Twitter and logged out to others to separate products that they [TS]

  did they are starting to do that a little bit they've launched some things [TS]

  that are fainting at that but I also feel that they haven't had a unified [TS]

  product strategy that they've been able to stick to you for longer than a couple [TS]

  of quarters in in quite some time so it's going to take a while to see if [TS]

  this pans out and whoever they bring in for leadership is going to need to feel [TS]

  the same way it's like bringing in a new library right and then you librarians [TS]

  going to feel the same way about the way the catalog works otherwise we're gonna [TS]

  end up with a mess again but logged in Twitter is a place for creators it's a [TS]

  place for people that make and do and see and speak and logged out Twitter is [TS]

  for consumers it's for its a place for people like to consume and see the [TS]

  things that people make and take in the things that people say and hopefully [TS]

  grow smarter or chrome or latent or just be entertained whatever you know it's [TS]

  it's Greek laying down to distract against Meek Mill and tweeting it out or [TS]

  whether it's the RND land that's breaking in either one you know there's [TS]

  bliss bliss in either one and that I think that ability to treat them as [TS]

  different things different entities and hold those two ideas in their hand at [TS]

  the same time and services to audiences gonna be key to whether or not they make [TS]

  it a success at scale at a large large scale do you do but I'm getting a lot of [TS]

  people who listen don't but do you follow magic racks yeah so magic recs [TS]

  for anybody who doesn't now it's the account is actually broke the story [TS]

  about it existing there you go [TS]

  graduate alright then you probably do know that yeah so magic wrecks are the [TS]

  new tell me what magic Rex's the user count as a maid GIC capital R [TS]

  ECS like as in wrecks like recommendations are you [TS]

  break so magic Rex was the long story short metric ass was an experiment done [TS]

  by the experimental division its waters Canada handful of people that do you [TS]

  know some of them adolescence and I think it still exists but they do [TS]

  experiments with Twitter data and some of that existed to sort of surface good [TS]

  content like a how would we tell somebody if there's somebody worth [TS]

  following [TS]

  and you know you could say oh this person just get a bunch of followers but [TS]

  that doesn't tell the whole story you know they need to be important to you [TS]

  personally why else would you want to follow them so they came up with this [TS]

  idea to create a Twitter account at first as an experiment that Twitter [TS]

  account with then funnel in the context of your followers who you followed and [TS]

  it says oh if John Salley and Jane your network followed this person you might [TS]

  want to follow them too so it sends you would be in and it says hey John selling [TS]

  in Jane just followed this person along with nine other people so you might want [TS]

  to follow them and you can follow them you can click on the account I often go [TS]

  in there and like who you know why did they follow us for something like oh [TS]

  they just got hired by this publication right that makes sense and then they [TS]

  also ran sort of running an experiment in the same manner on tweets so somebody [TS]

  tweeted something that was favored by a bunch of people in your network people [TS]

  you follow or people you interact with regularly it would then surface that [TS]

  would you say look seven people you know [TS]

  favorited this Tweet probably something you want to look at so that was the [TS]

  genesis of the experiment I find it to be extraordinarily successful so I you [TS]

  follow I get DM's from the magic Rex account and I'm just checking right here [TS]

  looks like I got ten in the last month so I it certainly doesn't bad to me but [TS]

  raised in the last month I've gotten one every three days and they're all good [TS]

  it's a bunch of them this month have been about favorited tweets and most of [TS]

  them you know it sometimes the ones that I've actually seen or it's about a thing [TS]

  that I know about but most of the morning and they were all worth looking [TS]

  at [TS]

  at Lake remarkably useful for some kind of AI bots in terms of that and like you [TS]

  said there's a bunch that are like somebody some new account is just [TS]

  followed by you know somebody and it's also remarkable to me how quickly some [TS]

  of them all right I actually worn my writers if we hire somebody not to [TS]

  follow them immediately so that I can announce that writer because if writer's [TS]

  follow them all journalism is uniquely navel gazing and insular industry so all [TS]

  journalists follow each other and we all talk to each other and that sometimes [TS]

  distorts what we think is important but that's a whole nother story but if they [TS]

  all follow this writer all at once BAM then they it pops a magic wreck on all [TS]

  my competitors and they'll know that I heard them before I'm ready to announce [TS]

  the magic here's one for the at edge TV account and that's a new like sort of I [TS]

  actually haven't looked at it yet but it's from the onion video but I think [TS]

  it's hilarious actually fake parity vice sort of yeah it's like you know hipster [TS]

  type independent journalists on you know around the world [TS]

  dangerous situations but it's a parody but I got a couple days ago I gotta [TS]

  edged at edge TV was just followed by Josh centers 11 seconds ago and at Matt [TS]

  and Jessica Isner [TS]

  11 seconds after Josh centers followed them the magic tricks account sent me a [TS]

  diem and said hey this you know Josh attention to this account right this guy [TS]

  from you know the guy who's the editor at tidbits now and mat Honan and 2003 [TS]

  media people I follow all followed it you might want to know and I did I [TS]

  thought it was it was worth the thing that I'm giving out though is that the [TS]

  data that makes magic Rex work thinking and that whatever information they have [TS]

  if they could show me ads at about the same pace show me 10 of a month but have [TS]

  them be as [TS]

  arresting to me as as these are that's gold that is absolute positive gold like [TS]

  they they're obviously finding things that I think are interesting and i think [TS]

  that I think that their potential is clearly there that they could sell me [TS]

  things that I would be interested in [TS]

  well you know that adds that the thing about Twitter ads is that they're [TS]

  actually really good already late lot of people don't know this because the [TS]

  company itself is aligned on the whole because of its lack of user growth [TS]

  although you know as we are your detached on those metrics can be argued [TS]

  against rate strongly you know daily active users a month yet but they're [TS]

  maligned because those metrics have been established and they are what they are [TS]

  but their ads and monetization departments actually outperform the [TS]

  company significantly outperform very loosely there but they perform an [TS]

  outsized manner considering how many users they have and so if they actually [TS]

  were able to solve these are growth problem or find a different way to count [TS]

  those users people who viewed embedded tweets for instance included in monthly [TS]

  active users that sort of thing if they were able to fix that for the market I [TS]

  think it out it would actually go insane because the Twitter ads department which [TS]

  is the revenue department just led by Adam Bain whose by the way one of the [TS]

  front-runners for CEO news is actually really really well performing and that [TS]

  the ads there are served up it with intelligence however I agree with you [TS]

  that they could be much much better if I got an ad that I know was personalized [TS]

  like magic Rex I feel it would be even more effective but you know I'm no party [TS]

  in that department I agree with you though that could be a good concept the [TS]

  potential is clearly there yeah I mean you magic Rex actually just briefly [TS]

  magic tricks was actually integrated into the main Twitter product like it [TS]

  was absorbed into the main product as of late 2013 I think sometime into the if [TS]

  you don't have better if you've never heard of the account but you've gotten a [TS]

  notification that says Asian you know this person was just followed or you [TS]

  know you should look at this to eat that's built off of that magic Rex [TS]

  experiment they sort of folded event [TS]

  but I of course still follow the account and I get the diem directly actually [TS]

  like it that way better than a notification tip of the tip of the day [TS]

  for those of you haven't tried it especially I would I think it's like I'm [TS]

  getting a lot of people listen to show early me and don't really don't really [TS]

  even know what the main Twitter experiences like because we all used to [TS]

  repot right or Twitter affect you know i i nothing like that would surface for me [TS]

  if I weren't following the magic tricks account right exactly platform agnostic [TS]

  which is winters at its best but no decision to anyway speaking mad let's [TS]

  thank the first sponsor of the week and it's a long long time friend of the show [TS]

  back sponsoring the show again [TS]

  lynda.com ly and the dot-com lynda.com is in a knot on line learning you go [TS]

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  cannot emphasize how true this is like when they've been sponsoring before I go [TS]

  and check it out the new stuff that they had every week is just unbelievable [TS]

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  lynda.com is an absolutely tremendous way to learn to do this now here's the [TS]

  thing you can sign up for a free 10 day trial by visiting lynda.com ly and da [TS]

  dot com slash the talk show and you will get on limited access to every course on [TS]

  lynda.com to access to view the tutorials [TS]

  you could do it I'm tablets you could do it on the desktop web browser use your [TS]

  iPhone Android whatever you got ten days and you could just be you at all [TS]

  consume as much as you can in the 10 day trial that's how convinced they are that [TS]

  if you just get started and give it a shot and do it for free [TS]

  that you are going to sign up really can't emphasize how great this is really [TS]

  really great stuff i've i've learned a lot I did the Lightroom wine and like [TS]

  I'd change me from being somebody like a trained monkey using Lightroom taxi [TS]

  feeling like a photographer great great stuff so here's the deal go there [TS]

  free debt free trial lynda.com / the talk show and go learn something now my [TS]

  thanks to Linda without so here's the other thing about Twitter before we move [TS]

  on from Twitter so the problem that I did the bigger problem I see with [TS]

  Twitter or the immediate problem I see with Twitter is that their stock is in [TS]

  freefall now maybe free falls a little dramatic but it's significantly down its [TS]

  down below I think it's still haven't checked since the last time I looked but [TS]

  it's now it's down below the IPO level which is dangerous dangerous meaning [TS]

  that they are obviously the lower stock drops the more likely it is that [TS]

  somebody is going to buy them [TS]

  it opened at 41 and it's currently at 27 right and I think so I think it's a [TS]

  market cap of around nineteen billion some 17.89 according to just four eyes [TS]

  so then add a little premium because you've got a premium so you could [TS]

  somebody could probably acquire Twitter you know call it a hostile takeover for [TS]

  around 20 billion and it might that mean you know if this if the trend continues [TS]

  that number gets lower and lower and that's eventually it's going to reach a [TS]

  point where that's going to happen right at its inevitable if the stock keeps [TS]

  dropping [TS]

  that somebody is going to buy them and I i asked on Twitter the other day who and [TS]

  the companies that popped to mind for me immediately Facebook Google Microsoft [TS]

  somebody else had a good one that I didn't think of Apple obviously could [TS]

  because they had the money I don't think Apple would so I would drop out from the [TS]

  discussion immediately i dont the Apple would see any interest in on Twitter no [TS]

  I don't think so just doesn't want to just doesn't make sense [TS]

  break other than I had before and never made sense to me [TS]

  one thought is that maybe this would be a good thing because if if somebody [TS]

  bought Twitter and left them alone and let them be Twitter than all of these [TS]

  pressures that are unreasonable are gone on the other hand a lot of times [TS]

  companies by smaller companies and rank them more often than not they do it is [TS]

  when it doesn't happen like with vying for instance like Twitter but fine wines [TS]

  actually doing really well and i think is a super super cold and it's much [TS]

  different than when they bought it but still very need they didn't react but [TS]

  when that happens or all surprised and elated race I think the average company [TS]

  targets acquired is gonna get matched up in some way to fit the revenue and and [TS]

  I'll look at the parent company from it [TS]

  yeah and Vine is interesting I don't really use fine I should say I don't [TS]

  obviously know what it is but it it was news to me that that there are maybe [TS]

  there's not as many but in a way that there are professional youtubers there [TS]

  are professional find people you know people who were doing you know who's [TS]

  buying accounts do have enough followers and it can charge enough for sponsored [TS]

  posts you know it [TS]

  I know it sounds like lingo but it's you know it's not a bad term native content [TS]

  and other words you have a lot of fun followers and a sponsor page you to do [TS]

  it six second fine for the you know featuring their product and you know it [TS]

  if you're good you know you and your [TS]

  you have all these followers because your visor funny you make a funny line [TS]

  featuring coca-cola and everybody's happy right you're you're you know it's [TS]

  it's that win-win-win virtuous cycle of you know I know native content again it [TS]

  sounds like some kind of weird business development term but when it works it's [TS]

  really great because the video is just as funny as your other stuff you you can [TS]

  acknowledge that you put it in a you know a hashtag on the comment that this [TS]

  was sponsored so there's no you know you're not trying to hide it but your [TS]

  followers are happy because it's another funny video and the sponsors happy [TS]

  because you know you know two million people who follow you are 500,000 people [TS]

  or whatever had their product in front of them right right absolutely and I [TS]

  think that's that's the way that most voters are making any money if they are [TS]

  currently Twitter actually bought a company called niche which it uses to [TS]

  sort of peres miners with brands for advertisement that it basically be [TS]

  created on buying posted online and then it gets used in an ad on Twitter vine [TS]

  has very little to do with that they actually are not involved in monetizing [TS]

  any binders stuff at all they basically make the tools and diviners do the rest [TS]

  at least that's what the current the way currently works but twitter is [TS]

  definitely using some of that to their advantage there saying hey look we've [TS]

  got this ad said and we've got a buying right like you can make a buying and [TS]

  tweet that out promote that and then people will watch it there to watch it [TS]

  on buying and you'll get the natural uplift of those you know millions of [TS]

  followers of that particular viner and some of these fighters are bona fide [TS]

  celebrities I mean talking screaming teenage girls thousands in a conference [TS]

  waiting to see them celebrities is or not by any means like flash in the pan [TS]

  weird little pigeonhole celebrities these are genuine as what we would think [TS]

  of a movie star [TS]

  in like the you know they had a llamar movie star fashion this is the modern [TS]

  equivalent you know Brad Pitt is not Brad Pitt to twelve to fifteen year olds [TS]

  you know these designers are that's the Brad Pitt that's their their their idol [TS]

  today in the the great news is they're way more accessible than Brad Pitt was [TS]

  so they can generate much more buzz and theoretically earn a living at it and [TS]

  and keep going down that path towards whatever their final goal is a celebrity [TS]

  have a link I will put it in the shona I've actually meant to post this daring [TS]

  fireball that I didn't finish the article and this is a good reminder to [TS]

  me to finish it after we do this but it's fascinating it's July 31 so it's [TS]

  just like a week old article from Vanity Fair by Richard Lawson and he went to [TS]

  VidCon the IDC oh and in Anaheim which is like we're all of these YouTube [TS]

  Sandvine celebrities 200 of them are two hundred of them are considered [TS]

  millionaires that they're making over a million dollars a year I guess is what [TS]

  their definition of millionaires but anyway lot of money [TS]

  serious celebrity and this is where their fans got to meet them and it's the [TS]

  picture is just you know it looks like the modern-day equivalent of you know [TS]

  like when the Beatles came to America sixties no I mean it's no no yes I day I [TS]

  it's not just it's not just thousands of teenagers its thousands of teenagers in [TS]

  ecstasy [TS]

  you know they are you going to put it is so fun is the modern world and of course [TS]

  they're all have iPhones everything it's rare to find a reader actually the [TS]

  doesn't use the camera quality know about the sense but you know the fact [TS]

  that this is where celebrities are today it's you know and and the advertisers [TS]

  are smart they're not going they're they're not behind people like me who [TS]

  you know [TS]

  rocketing towards old age are are old but the marketers are smart and more or [TS]

  less so that's why you know a company like cocaine you think wow wow that's [TS]

  pretty interesting that it established you know the you know coke is arguably [TS]

  like the establishment of the marketing and advertising world that they're [TS]

  already doing this well of course they are because like that you know they know [TS]

  that if you want to reach teenagers and of course coca-cola wants to reach [TS]

  teenagers if they don't they're they're screwed what you don't do that on you [TS]

  don't do that on TV and it's you know and that TV as the main place for like [TS]

  an advertiser like Coke to reach teenagers spans generations plural I [TS]

  mean like by the time you and i were born that was already the case it was [TS]

  already the case you know Don Draper dreamed up the like to sing the world of [TS]

  coke before I was born right that's where I was born where where TV was the [TS]

  primary thing for that so it's very very easy when when something like TV has [TS]

  been established as d medium to reach teenagers for you know entire lifetimes [TS]

  of the people in the industry right now is very easy to to let that sort of [TS]

  subtle in like summit but it's not i mean like my son my eleven-year-old son [TS]

  he doesn't he hardly watches any broadcast TV at all and on his own he [TS]

  watches not it's only like one where as a family and we decide to watch [TS]

  something that he is exposed to and I honestly I I don't think he understands [TS]

  the concept of a channel I really don't because it's even when we do I to [TS]

  broadcast TV it's all through the TiVo like I i've talked about I did I don't [TS]

  think he really understand the idea [TS]

  when you get cable TV you have you know here's your 80 channels to choose from [TS]

  and you know and you have to watch what you what you're watching when they put [TS]

  it on the big things like the lack of on demand that the concept of my daughters [TS]

  could have no concept at all is even when we let her watch stuff on her iPad [TS]

  League easily meet with their if she wants to watch something will let her [TS]

  watch a movie and if she's watching a movie that movie I found it very [TS]

  interesting movie freak but that movie is the temporal aspects of it are [TS]

  permeable to her in other words she just watches the bits that she wants to watch [TS]

  sometimes you watch it all the way through if we put it on the TV series [TS]

  like the Apple TV to put it on the TV show watch it beginning to end and [TS]

  shield she loves movies which I'm very happy about she's been asked me to watch [TS]

  Batman which I'm putting myself on the back about the TV Batman not some [TS]

  cartoon and she's three I probably shouldn't but let's just leave that [TS]

  parenting discussion but he that linearity of the movie she just jumps [TS]

  back and forth Rachel watch the bits that she wants to watch it there [TS]

  something scary should skip it if there's something that funny bit that [TS]

  she wants to watch again she just drag your finger across the slider and she [TS]

  comes back so it's it's not only the lack of channels on demand nature but [TS]

  also the linearity of it you know where we are we were used to watching [TS]

  something that lasted an hour and we were happy about it at BHS rewind and [TS]

  watch it again or whatever but that is gone gone gone and find as a part of [TS]

  that because it's six seconds and you build your own TV channel by following [TS]

  the people that you want and by by telling it what you like and letting it [TS]

  build a channel for you things like that and then that's your TV watching vying [TS]

  for 10 minutes right and you can get you watch somebody's creations watch a bunch [TS]

  of these creations tied together and that's a quote unquote program that [TS]

  that's been built for you out of your tastes and so when it comes time to tell [TS]

  them oh no you're supposed to let somebody else determine what you want [TS]

  were supposed to watch it supposed to like and you're supposed to let them do [TS]

  that for hours on end I just think that's going to be an incredibly tough [TS]

  concept [TS]

  I'm yeah so tons of money enormous celebrity and it's all happening on [TS]

  YouTube by and I thought is very very interesting i mean clearly I don't think [TS]

  mine is as big as YouTube you know in any sense even in like the literal sense [TS]

  of how long the videos can be but it's the way that violent featured so [TS]

  prominently in in this story of these VidCon celebrities in the fan to follow [TS]

  them really opened my eyes to the fact that Twitter has a real gem by owning [TS]

  them whether they figure out a way to make money from buying or not it just [TS]

  reemphasize is my circling back to these hey if their stock keeps circling down [TS]

  somebody's gonna buy them because somebody is gonna see that this is a [TS]

  tremendous thing down right and and and will they then will they then keep the [TS]

  reasons why it is tremendous and and sort of improve it or will they screwed [TS]

  up I mean look at you know Facebook and Instagram there's one where I love [TS]

  Instagram really do Instagram is one of the few social things that I use really [TS]

  like it and when Facebook bought them my heart sunk as I thought this is why i [TS]

  guess i dont evn I don't use Facebook I really don't see the appeal of it I [TS]

  don't like you know I don't like lots of things about it they're gonna record and [TS]

  if I didn't know that Facebook bought Instagram I as of today [TS]

  years down the road I have no it would have no idea they don't foresee any kind [TS]

  of Facebook sign in its everyday everything every way that the that the [TS]

  app in the platform have evolved since then have been all to me just purely [TS]

  Instagram me you know to make up an adjective it all feels true to what it [TS]

  wanted to be right so I am a big fan of its too and I think a lot of it comes [TS]

  from the fact that that Mark Zuckerberg did leave Kevin system in charge and he [TS]

  gave him you know sort of the ability to execute on the plans that he had already [TS]

  had with minimal fuss and I think they kevin's actually a pretty good thinker [TS]

  you know [TS]

  in terms of the stuff he cares if it's not it's not a situation where he's [TS]

  trying to maximize the Hisar away from the user's at every turn instead it's [TS]

  you know what's right and there's there are people that are able to do that but [TS]

  there's very few people who are able to do that in the face of billions of [TS]

  dollars worth of you know money and revenue and everything else right so [TS]

  he's part of Facebook now but still has managed to carve out a very unique spot [TS]

  for Instagram and keep it keep it good which is a great thing why the hell do [TS]

  you think they don't have a native iPad up focus i mean i think is about focused [TS]

  I think that they obviously they have all the engineering resources they could [TS]

  ever won right so they could hire 50 engineers today to build a great need of [TS]

  iPad up and it would display our Instagram photos and everything so it's [TS]

  not that they don't have the resources I think it's a matter of focus in terms of [TS]

  the Instagram works for a variety of reasons but one of the major reasons it [TS]

  works is actually because of the way it's basically structured await the way [TS]

  the feed works you scroll one picture that time you look at one thing at a [TS]

  time its goals by and I mean I'd used as I'm sure you haven't used a half dozen [TS]

  different iPad apps to browse Instagram and that's fine but the it does not bear [TS]

  any anywhere near as compelling you're sort of presented with a bunch of [TS]

  pictures that feel less valuable in a grid right whereas when you're scrolling [TS]

  down your Instagram p each one feels like it has merit and value and you know [TS]

  it sure you go by quickly cuz you're not interested but the ones you are [TS]

  interested they they take up your whole screen they feel very front and center [TS]

  so will they do it probably but I can understand the reluctance you know I the [TS]

  way I would imagine doing it and I know that in general for most apps take your [TS]

  iPhone design and just blow it up to fit iPad screen is not a good design for an [TS]

  iPad [TS]

  I think Instagram is a rare case where it might be you know and and make it so [TS]

  that you know i i maybe even just like the phone make it so that it's it [TS]

  doesn't rotate make it so that you have to hold the iPad vertically and you just [TS]

  scroll down and they fit in that way it just makes the photos bigger that's [TS]

  right I wonder and I have no idea but I went on the other hand they just may be [TS]

  the IRA's photos right I wonder if such crappy res for so long has stopped them [TS]

  and now they're up in preparation [TS]

  I thought that too maybe maybe it's just because you know that the resolution [TS]

  wasn't yet big enough to have to get ahead and they did that recently they've [TS]

  increased the size what is the new size is it like a good question I think it's [TS]

  a 10 20:48 bat 2488 something like that [TS]

  pretty big at least compared to where they were and it certainly big enough to [TS]

  make a fine JPEG that would actually be pixel for pixel on an iPad yeah which [TS]

  maybe maybe not be my only other thought is maybe they've tried it and it just [TS]

  doesn't feel right and I'm imagining that it would feel just great but that [TS]

  it doesn't so maybe I don't know but at this point I mean if they hadn't tried [TS]

  it I would be so whether or not obviously tried it so sorry but yes [TS]

  there is going you know companies staying inside of the company's think [TS]

  that's a good example but as to what company's culture works for that you [TS]

  know it's very few I mean you could visibly see Facebook buying them and [TS]

  leaving them alone [TS]

  rate like that they have proven obviously that they have the ability to [TS]

  do that and in not take it as like a matter of pride that they have to fuck [TS]

  with it as I think that sometimes it just comes down to that you think that [TS]

  Silicon Valley super rational all the stuff but you know you go play smart [TS]

  people human so you get those egos in there were like oh no I got my stamp on [TS]

  this thing and [TS]

  and they muck it up so you you could conceivably see Facebook as a company's [TS]

  Rd proven that you know Mark or whoever whatever p.m. is in charge of those [TS]

  products doesn't have that ego driven approach and you can see hey maybe they [TS]

  could buy it leave it alone [TS]

  you know and they certainly have the money just a matter of whether or not if [TS]

  it's with their overall strategy but given that they've got it before the [TS]

  whatsapp I would have probably had a far less inclination to say that they'd buy [TS]

  it but now that they've but what's out by Stephanie actually more possibilities [TS]

  to me the top tits if I had to bet it would be a bidding war between Facebook [TS]

  and Google and Facebook to me it almost seems a little more likely cause maybe [TS]

  Google's a little gun shy now about social I don't know maybe total left [TS]

  they lost all direction on Google+ and I think vic I don't know why but left I'm [TS]

  not going to you know make assumptions that I don't know you know jack about [TS]

  but I do know that they have been planning to do that stuff that they did [TS]

  with Google+ for like a year you know the spinning out of photos in and [TS]

  removing it from a lot of their primary products and stuff like that we reported [TS]

  on that a year ago and people you know obviously got really mad at us and told [TS]

  us relying came out in droves but it was told the doctor what we reported they [TS]

  were planning on doing and it's the right it was the right move because it [TS]

  felt intrusive it wasn't working [TS]

  it wasn't providing them any social uplift on usage of their products and it [TS]

  actually did do what it needed to do which is create a single sign-on service [TS]

  that allows them to get more users using Google products in it specially search [TS]

  while signed in [TS]

  because not only can they provide them a better experience through Google now [TS]

  which is fantastic but they can also of course the more accurate ads and gather [TS]

  more data on them whether you feel great about that or not is up to you but [TS]

  that's the that was the thought process and that worked as far as the social [TS]

  stuff that was like six brainchild so I think when he [TS]

  and whether it was causation correlation I don't know you know what caused what [TS]

  but when he left that stopped you know that was done as of that moment so I [TS]

  don't think that he was still there [TS]

  turned off by it because it should cost them a bunch of money but they have a [TS]

  bunch of money and it's it's worth it was it was worth it I mean if there's no [TS]

  way to calculate it but if I'm sure somebody Google is done the math and [TS]

  said well we got you know eight hundred million more signed in users or whatever [TS]

  over the course of a year or two years and that's totally worth it [TS]

  way upsets the money that we spend I don't know somebody that there's [TS]

  probably done some math but aside from all the math aspect I think that they [TS]

  didn't see that as like their bid to combat Facebook and that's that's where [TS]

  you get in these arguments about people that know they're trying to be Facebook [TS]

  and i'd never ever thought it was about that I don't think anybody was really [TS]

  really smart but it was about them beating Facebook or whatever the case it [TS]

  sort of was about other people owning the social channel and all the data [TS]

  involved right and so they didn't want to be left out of the cold on that but I [TS]

  think that if you look at it that way then you could say oh well they could [TS]

  try again with a different thing like Twitter may be right and you know maybe [TS]

  they get all the data that they need from Twitter without having to actually [TS]

  tell anybody oh you gotta log into Google right and i think that if you go [TS]

  back to Twitter being a real-time component of the web then it becomes [TS]

  much more clear why they might want it [TS]

  vs oh it's their new social initiative instead it's so it's a pillar of the [TS]

  internet and Google searches another pillar so if such as one pillar and [TS]

  real-time is another pillar you don't then they've got into out of whatever [TS]

  however many animal now but there are several things that sort of have to [TS]

  exist for the web to exist and obviously searching indexing is one of them and [TS]

  Google's got that and it's real time as another one they see this as an [TS]

  opportunity grab that that's why I think to buy it now for social necessarily you [TS]

  know [TS]

  no agreed and I you know I think it makes total sense for example and I [TS]

  don't think it was rushed I think it's so polished and it makes so much sense [TS]

  but just the way that they've spawned Google photos into a standalone product [TS]

  it it just makes sense in it it it is good for people who worry you know in [TS]

  the Google ecosystem here you sign up for this thing and you know you install [TS]

  this app maybe if you're on an Android phone you do you happen sorry there and [TS]

  you sign in with your Google account and now all of your photos are in you know [TS]

  in this one thing here's where they all are enter on all your devices and we're [TS]

  gonna do these compelling a I dunno recognition things on the content of the [TS]

  photos and and and that more or less the end of the story right and then you can [TS]

  search for them and you can say you can you know they've got these cool features [TS]

  are you can search for things like you know winter and it will find fractures [TS]

  or is it something you know sounds almost too good to be true and it seems [TS]

  you know a lot of people in it seems to work really well in reality and that's [TS]

  the end of the story with that makes sense to offer you know regular people [TS]

  that just right you know it's a value proposition is clear and just was never [TS]

  the case when the photos were wrapped up in Google+ it always seemed like it was [TS]

  a little bit like facebook in a little bit like a photo library a little bit [TS]

  you know and and a little bit of this and a little bit of that and trying to [TS]

  be more than one thing as opposed to hear Google photos all of your photos [TS]

  it's just like Gmail gmail is to your email here's the thing that's like that [TS]

  to your photo library where it is [TS]

  anyway speaking of photos let me take a break here in thank our our second [TS]

  sponsor and it is our good friends at fracture so we've been talking about [TS]

  digital photos fracture is all about taking photos and making them analog [TS]

  right you take your photos and memories they're trapped somewhere way down in [TS]

  their Instagram feed or they're in your iCloud photo library or Google photos or [TS]

  whatever and all you ever do is see them on your phone or on your tablet or [TS]

  something like that you see them on these screens [TS]

  boy it's really nice to have your photos in a real-world hanging on your wall put [TS]

  them up you know going up the steps put on the shelf in your office desk [TS]

  somewhere where their tangible and analog with your photos that mean the [TS]

  most here what fractured does if you listen to the show regular you heard me [TS]

  talk about it before they take your photos and they print them directly on [TS]

  glass piece of paper stuck to class I don't know they've got some kind of [TS]

  magic process where they take class and that's what the actual images printed on [TS]

  it is a very very compelling physical artifact it is really really great I [TS]

  don't know what to say cuz they keep sponsoring a show here's the thing [TS]

  they've they've written me they keep my turn to show people keep going there [TS]

  following my advice doing this and buying fractures and then they keep [TS]

  buying more like you might think how come every single week I listen to the [TS]

  show [TS]

  fracture is sponsoring the show I worry that it gets repetitive but here's the [TS]

  thing people keep buying these photos and I can't say enough good things I [TS]

  mean it sincerely from the even if they said you know what we love you you you [TS]

  know you've brought so many great customers but you know we're not going [TS]

  to sponsor the show for a lot I would still recommend fracture to anybody who [TS]

  wants to get photos printed you want to get your photos printed it it's it's [TS]

  just great [TS]

  it is so fantastic go there check them out they have sizes that range from [TS]

  little you know I don't like three by three or four by four all the way up to [TS]

  massive like 23 by 27 inch [TS]

  really really big big pieces of glass go to their website is fracture me.com and [TS]

  the code is daring fireball and that's good for 15% off your first order and [TS]

  the prices are already great so you're saving money on what's already agreed to [TS]

  also go to fracture me.com and remember the code during fireball if you haven't [TS]

  yet go print out a couple of your photos from your vacation or whatever you've [TS]

  done this summer I thanks to take photographs taken want it to be a [TS]

  professional attire for what do you think I knew there was a loaded question [TS]

  what are your opinions [TS]

  here's where I'm going with that I'm going to parlay from from the fracture [TS]

  thing to talking about the photos out from that which i'm sort of formulating [TS]

  my opinion on I'm a very slow thinker in general I don't know if you've ever [TS]

  noticed a deliberate let's see let's say you're deliberate and I i four years [TS]

  used Lightroom and I actually still have you know all of those years my my photo [TS]

  library from those years is all in Lightroom but you kind of force myself [TS]

  to give photos a really good try I don't have Lightroom installed on my right now [TS]

  I'm back yet I'm going I'm actually about it at some point this summer I'm [TS]

  going to break down and go back to my room at least just have my library there [TS]

  a Twitter conversation I had with doctor wave [TS]

  from Pixar yea yea michael johnson who is easy music he's a better photographer [TS]

  than I am but similar to me we're we're we're we're not you know we're not pros [TS]

  he's he's you know he does software Pixar but we actually even have the same [TS]

  camera and we have a similar liking for fast prime lenses and you know we just [TS]

  shoot the same way which is the way you get a couple of good photos is if you're [TS]

  going to take a nice camera to shoot lots and lots and lots and lots and lots [TS]

  and lots of photos and then you import them and you find you know you grow up [TS]

  you literally just throw most of them away finding any old days we used to say [TS]

  film is cheap but in the longer plays explains even more now but right and if [TS]

  you watch if you watch what I've talked about this couple weeks ago where it's [TS]

  it's like I really I cannot wait for professional photographers to switch to [TS]

  mirrorless cameras because I find it so annoying at like news event sports or [TS]

  like president of you know president out of state is making a statement or [TS]

  something like that and you hear the professional photographers thats this [TS]

  machine gun like like like like like just shooting you know whatever however [TS]

  fast the cameras can go per second which is getting to be extraordinarily fast [TS]

  you know [TS]

  10 12 shots per second nonstop to get what one photo to a company news story [TS]

  but that's what you do because digital's cheap anyway to me like room has all [TS]

  sorts of features that are meant to support that sort of workflow where you [TS]

  can just go through and just forget the key if its acts or whatever but you [TS]

  don't have a modifier you just keep going higher and you can just mark [TS]

  photos for deletion and it doesn't sound up bracket i think is the default but i [TS]

  dont member with the kind of to look it up but more or less than my workflow and [TS]

  maybe there's other ways to do it is you go import let's say three hundred photos [TS]

  into Lightroom [TS]

  and you just start going through them and you know you find my first cut is [TS]

  just throw out the ones I don't wanna bother with and I just go through with [TS]

  arrow keys to go you know through the photos and one key to just marked for [TS]

  deletion and it doesn't even delete them it just like a special flag like you [TS]

  want to delete the Senate Dems out the photo but that way you're not waiting [TS]

  for the disc to do anything it's just like a little you know one little piece [TS]

  of medidata database and you can go really really fast and Lightroom I was [TS]

  thinking star rating [TS]

  tax rate it makes it as easy Tiger Xing out the photos and it's it's like the [TS]

  real-world version of your big stack of photos and you just start flipping [TS]

  through and you put them into columns keepers and you know here's the trash [TS]

  can you literally used to do that with a context she just X out the ones who [TS]

  didn't want to bother looking at it exactly right that would be the old way [TS]

  would be the contact sheet yet and it's you know if you've ever watched you know [TS]

  are you probably did it since you were shooting film and you were actually a [TS]

  pro like a grease pencil and just literally X amount bottom line for me is [TS]

  the problem with photos is there's no way to do that it's it's photos to me is [TS]

  funded this is the inside I've come to is that fund photos is fundamentally [TS]

  built around a much more consumer minded mindset which is that most of the photos [TS]

  you take you want to keep and you know whether that based on coming from the [TS]

  phone world you know where you don't even know you can do burst mode and you [TS]

  know I'm sorry but if you look at like my daughters iPod she's got a hundred [TS]

  and fifty thousand sophie's on it and I don't think that's ever gonna change in [TS]

  a mean that the selfish thing for sure is something where people take a ton of [TS]

  photos before they find one that they'd like to see my wife do it you know and [TS]

  she's not even a huge silvery takers super into that but every once awhile [TS]

  she likes to send it to a friends like shit makeup on this new thing and she [TS]

  takes a ton and then picks one right but she still takes that ton [TS]

  so yeah I think that it's not just pros I think a lot of people I think if [TS]

  they're thinking is that is people taking one precious photo and being done [TS]

  at the wrong phone shoot so fast but now you know they used to just like Oh [TS]

  getting one out of them was a chore but now it's like bbm pin as you as you [TS]

  mentioned with the person everything yeah and it just doesn't support that I [TS]

  feel like any other thing too as I kind of feel like they should not just should [TS]

  support it because I want to use it but they should support it because I feel [TS]

  like my honest opinion it's a good thing to encourage people to do to take lots [TS]

  of photos to try you know and that that's how you get one or two that are [TS]

  really good don't try to if you want to get like two really good photos from [TS]

  your kid's birthday party don't don't sit there and try to aim up one or two [TS]

  good ones take 60 70 80 pictures and then go look through them on a big [TS]

  screen as you can get and see which ones actually came out good and I feel like [TS]

  the apt just does not support that I am wondering is that there's no way and [TS]

  this is on a new iMac so it is I wouldn't call it slow and I don't have a [TS]

  huge library of 20,000 photos in there so I wouldn't call it slow and you know [TS]

  it imported my old iPhoto library fine but it's it's not that fast and it [TS]

  always seems to do the wrong thing when I delete like actually just have to [TS]

  delete a photo to delete it and just hitting the delete key doesn't work has [TS]

  that brings up a warning dialog you sure you want to delete it safe to come and [TS]

  it isn't too bad its command delete isn't too bad [TS]

  which is immediate you know it's it's not about the delete key is that bring [TS]

  up a dialog every time is that it it doesn't it doesn't wipe it off the desk [TS]

  it moves it to a trash can type then you could get back or you can do I do if you [TS]

  make a mistake [TS]

  but even then it it often goes to the wrong photo it doesn't go to the next [TS]

  photo goes to the one I looked at before and it doesn't seem [TS]

  I could be wrong here but maybe I just wanna go the wrong way maybe I'm always [TS]

  trying to go there and it always want you to go forward in time and i want to [TS]

  go backwards you know from the most recent 2 the least recent I don't know [TS]

  but when you're in that mode and you just wanted fly through hundred pictures [TS]

  it's annoying if you keep having to hit three or four keys and our oh and go [TS]

  back to back to back you know over and over and over again right right yeah I [TS]

  do not think it is built for that kind of anything at all and there's a couple [TS]

  possibilities one possibility could be that we are wrong and that the data [TS]

  supports effective people take a few photos at a time right so it if you look [TS]

  at they're like oh well you know you guys don't know what we know and what we [TS]

  know is that data on millions and millions of users says that these this [TS]

  is the way people shoot and we serviced that with this product and that you guys [TS]

  are the outliers and you need to use like right that's one possibility the [TS]

  second possibility is that there is a disconnect between the team that is [TS]

  building photos and the teams that built the professional photo products in the [TS]

  past so either from what I understand it's not like they took the the aperture [TS]

  team and had been built photos like those people scattered everywhere and [TS]

  and our building other things for better for worse you know so if you're if you [TS]

  took the institution knowledge of the people building you know aperture and [TS]

  brought it in and they they could then tell you a man you know if you're if you [TS]

  want people to use this as a sort of core tool you're going to need to [TS]

  support people blasting through a bunch of pictures and editing them then maybe [TS]

  that would have been built differently but I don't know if that institutional [TS]

  knowledge was there is another possibility [TS]

  well what i've what I heard and I could be wrong [TS]

  well I i'm not wrong I could be wrong just in a matter of degree is that it [TS]

  what what's now called photos from Accra just photos [TS]

  started life internally as I photo acts you know it was definitely not just the [TS]

  next version of iPhoto wasn't just a bump the integer it was you know when [TS]

  they've had these other products get an axe or something like that [TS]

  like with iMovie like with a kind of radically redid the concept of it it was [TS]

  a radical rewrite it was a rewrite but it was a rewrite of iPhoto come you know [TS]

  definite was even by name and it changed after you know from where that what [TS]

  started it did change where they'd strategically said you know that's [TS]

  that's the iPhoto is the wrong way to go what we really want to do is you know [TS]

  have this unified photo platform across iOS and Mac and so we should we should [TS]

  just do you know followed the lead of iOS and just call it photos and the [TS]

  design changed at that point to clearly because it's it's clearly a sibling to [TS]

  the to the iOS Photos app right but I still think though that that shows in [TS]

  its roots you know cause to me that was the problem I mean years ago why I [TS]

  didn't use iPhoto and taught myself to use Lightroom instead was that I photo [TS]

  to me was never ever good for people who shot a lot of you know shot away I shot [TS]

  yeah I lightroom is my boy like I love Lightroom or my girl that but I really [TS]

  really like it needs the easiest best tool that has come along for [TS]

  photographers in generations and you know these days there's lots of [TS]

  arguments about getting stale and all this stuff but I still think it's it got [TS]

  exactly the right things right which is you you need to deal with complex [TS]

  adjustments in a way that allows you granularity of control you know you need [TS]

  to eat be able to blast through into an initial pass and then you need to be [TS]

  able to to kind of diddle downing and drill down into my new testaments even [TS]

  jump out to Photoshop if you really need to and then jump back and I think that [TS]

  that was incredibly smart billed for Adobe and and really really well done by [TS]

  them I just think it hasn't been matched by any other tools including aperture [TS]

  since it came out and I know there's devotees of either side but [TS]

  you know people that loved effort anyway so i think is really really a great tool [TS]

  and I think that's it just may be the case that 80% use cases are never going [TS]

  to be that way and and photos is always going to act and work that way and we [TS]

  just don't have the data to understand that that's what people want but I do [TS]

  agree with you that is just not great for Lee going through a bunch of photos [TS]

  at once I rarely rarely ever use it for anything beyond opening it up finding a [TS]

  photo and sharing like that's the way I treat it like a I'm able to search [TS]

  through photos by you know day tour group events and and share them with [TS]

  family members that sort of thing if I'm going to do any sort of editing open in [TS]

  Lightroom so I'm I haven't done the thought experiment of trying to force [TS]

  myself to use it you know to see if I could it would work of my work clothes I [TS]

  haven't gone down the route you're going but it doesn't it doesn't appeal to me [TS]

  for those reasons and I i dont have used as I can't speak to see they're not I [TS]

  don't want us to get a turn [TS]

  here's a question for you do you import your photos that you should I Drive [TS]

  phone in delight know many me neither [TS]

  with maybe like one or two rare exceptions you know over the course of [TS]

  like six or seven years once or twice maybe there'd be something and maybe I'm [TS]

  wrong and maybe I never did I never ever did that so for four years I had like [TS]

  two completely different photo universes there was my Lightroom library which was [TS]

  the images I shot with my Canon digital SLR and within the last few years my [TS]

  Fuji x100 ass oh and and years earlier years I had the Ricoh GRD [TS]

  Mike an end in my mind those were my real photos and I had my iPhone photo [TS]

  library which was mostly just on my iPhone and then every once in a while I [TS]

  would like to open up just image capture copy all the ones off and put them in a [TS]

  folder in my Dropbox just so you know about a great I just have a cough up [TS]

  literally just have it just goes by year I've got like and I know Dropbox has [TS]

  some kind of feature like that but I did I don't like that feature cause I don't [TS]

  want Dropbox screw around with my other photos all I want is somewhere where [TS]

  everything I've taken with my iPhone is you know somewhere where it's accessible [TS]

  online so I just have like up you know Dropbox I have a iPhone photo library or [TS]

  something I forget what I called it an inside that it's just a one folder for [TS]

  each year and inside that all the photos I took my iPhone from that year that's [TS]

  it right but I really like to think I really do like about photos from Mac and [TS]

  iCloud photo library is I love that I don't have to do that by hand I don't [TS]

  have to like remember hey you know it's been a couple months since I packed up [TS]

  the photos on my phone they just show up and I let you know it is one of the [TS]

  things people say Apple doesn't get services right well for me at least [TS]

  iCloud photo library they got right because I take a screenshot on my phone [TS]

  or if it's there by the time I put my phone down and go to my keyboard and [TS]

  switch to the photos out and I go to that's been really really good and that [TS]

  is really really convenient for things like if I want to send somebody a [TS]

  screenshot of like an app that I'm testing it's great if I'm at my desk and [TS]

  I have my Mac right here and so I can be a lot easier for me to take or maybe I'm [TS]

  already halfway through writing the email on my Mac [TS]

  it's great to just switch to the you know take the screenshot of my phone go [TS]

  to the Photos app and there it is I can get it right out at fantastic so yeah [TS]

  it's going to be a good member how bad I mean it was so bad before they never [TS]

  show up to reset it all the time so they did a good job at this iteration of it [TS]

  yeah I don't know what to do in the long run now I don't know I guess what I may [TS]

  be what I should do but it seems like an awful lot of busy work is that every [TS]

  time I shoot photos that I put into Lightroom do my pics adjust them the way [TS]

  I want and export them all to you know the highest resolution jpeg possible and [TS]

  then import those into the photos out just so that those photos photos [TS]

  supported watched folder I don't think it does and if it did deal with the [TS]

  problem I can maybe I'm not enough maybe I need to you know taking advanced Linda [TS]

  course on Lightroom but I don't think that there's a way but that's because [TS]

  laterooms non-destructive I don't think there's a way that there would be a [TS]

  watched photo a watch things that would pick up my adjustments in less export [TS]

  them yeah I see what you mean so all I have to do is do the exogenous has that [TS]

  watched folder thing yeah I don't know I don't think it does but it would be a [TS]

  good feature they added it anybody else I forget it right down the middle I mean [TS]

  I'm still like everything my family stuff like the stuff that comes off [TS]

  white what my wife and I set it up is that she has her own iCloud account for [TS]

  a lot of stuff we share purchases and I've rigged up so that any photos we [TS]

  take her all imported so we have shared iCloud for that so I see her photos of [TS]

  my photos all-in-one iPhoto library get my mind doesn't have a computer she is a [TS]

  phone and iPad isn't interested should work doesn't use it she doesn't need it [TS]

  so it's not really a priority for her to use my laptop once every couple of [TS]

  months ago [TS]

  shopping sites or something [TS]

  but in general she does all of it from right patent phone and so anything she [TS]

  takes issue to me that is just dumped into my central repository on my Mac and [TS]

  then which is of course then backed up by a time machine and then backed up the [TS]

  Backblaze you know separately but that central repository is our life from the [TS]

  beginning I think that honestly the first photos in my iPhoto library right [TS]

  now I got married in 2004 in the photos in my library to this five oh my God my [TS]

  wife's gonna kill me and i got married before the iPhone 3 iPhone photos if my [TS]

  library from phones and all that jazz and I had some important mostly from [TS]

  everything is our life together [TS]

  imported into that library and once she got an iPhone she started basically [TS]

  getting my hand me that iPhones and and then eventually buying iPhones new ones [TS]

  when she wanted all of those photos are all in that repository and said I view [TS]

  that as a timeline of my life and I know this is the way that this is the value [TS]

  that companies like Facebook and Dropbox see in the auto upload and Google [TS]

  because it's a timeline of your entire life right [TS]

  those photos are just so much data from them and if if Google conference since [TS]

  tell you what's winter than they know your kids growing up they can probably [TS]

  estimated age raped like these are that there's a lot of data in those photos in [TS]

  not to mention the actual metadata which is very easy to read so that aspect of [TS]

  things that timeline I don't like having that one repository for it there in in [TS]

  photos now and I don't like mixing in when I used to shoot a wedding or [TS]

  something like that don't want that in there and I want that in my family [TS]

  library so that goes in iPhoto and if I ever do like you know a formal shoes or [TS]

  if I pick up my SLR which is getting more and more rare to be honest and [TS]

  shoot family photos then I'll will export doesn't import those tonight but [TS]

  it remains a canonical record you know of our lives together in that thing [TS]

  whereas lightroom is more along the lines of like oh I have a rare breed a [TS]

  and I'm gonna go she landscapes or or you know she packed her stuff or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  many years later for that clearly never gonna touch photos that up with that [TS]

  same year [TS]

  alright enough fun for us to talk about our next sponsor my neck sponsor here is [TS]

  our good friends at automatic this is really really cool thing automatic is a [TS]

  connected car adapter plugs into your car's diagnostic port any car made in [TS]

  recent years has one of these things it's the this is what like your [TS]

  dashboard might light up and say hey you need service III or something like that [TS]

  you don't even know what that means well when you're taken into the place you [TS]

  know the the mechanic car dealer wherever you go to get your car serviced [TS]

  what they do is they know what that stuff means they but they plug thing [TS]

  into the sport and it tells them exactly what's going on every car since 1996 has [TS]

  one of these things so the automatic it's a dongle thing is you plug it in [TS]

  there and then they've got a nap and a pairs with your phone on Bluetooth and [TS]

  you get all of this information and it's not just diagnostic information about [TS]

  like you know like the equivalent of the check engine light coming on it can tell [TS]

  you all sorts of stuff in plain English just like how efficiently you're driving [TS]

  so it knows like mileage wise it is so if you follow the advice of the app you [TS]

  can get better mileage you know all sorts of advice on as you drive save [TS]

  money on gas stuff like that it knows where you are it integrates with your [TS]

  phone's GPS so if you're you know if you don't have like a parking spot or [TS]

  something you know park in the city or something like that you'll never lose [TS]

  your car because the automatic dingus knows where it is even has cool features [TS]

  and again I hope nobody ever has to use this nobody listening ever does but [TS]

  it'll call emergency services in the case of an accident caused cars you know [TS]

  if you know it the air bags and stuff like that [TS]

  cars know when they're in an accident and the diagnostic port has the [TS]

  information [TS]

  automatic if you're ever in an accident and and you couldn't call automatically [TS]

  make a call like that tonight at 11 with your location data right away [TS]

  really really cool features here's the thing they've got a new thing in the app [TS]

  store owner if you've seen this but this is brand new [TS]

  really really recent is that they've got 20 apps they call maps for the automatic [TS]

  platform and it gives you all sorts of cool new stuff you can integrate with [TS]

  nast so that your you get close to home and have your thermostat just at the [TS]

  right time just based on your location all automatic based on location Eric are [TS]

  you know fifteen miles from home [TS]

  turn the thermostat to a new temperature integrate with ifttt if this thing that [TS]

  gives you the power to build all kinds of recipes based on your driving my new [TS]

  levels of details really really cool for tankers just go to automatic dot com [TS]

  slash apps you'll see more I could go on and on and on [TS]

  here's the deal you have here is the code code is the talk show [TS]

  automatic dot com slash the talk show you get the code the code will save you [TS]

  20 percent and that's for anybody listens to the show [TS]

  ships in 2 business days and they have a 45 day return policy [TS]

  here's the thing it's a hundred bucks period you just buy it it's just a thing [TS]

  that you buy it's not a service you subscribe to you don't pay 10 bucks a [TS]

  month so that you can keep using it you buy one of these things 100 bucks but [TS]

  with the code the talk show it's only 80 bucks 80 bucks that's it you own it [TS]

  you're in you're good at for as long as the glass and that's it [TS]

  80 bucks and you get all of this school stuff that happens free all of these [TS]

  things are free it's really really fun so anybody was a car why not buy this [TS]

  thing for 80 bucks you're crazy if you don't go to automatic dot com automatic [TS]

  is spelled the normal way automatic dot com slash the talk show and find out [TS]

  more thanks to them go by this thing is really really cool then and set up some [TS]

  cool if this than that [TS]

  recipes how do you pronounce ifttt I don't know if you say if this then that [TS]

  or do you say ifttt I say EFT [TS]

  I may be wrong it it's one of those things where I I see it I read it with [TS]

  my eyes all the time and I don't really hear it I don't know how you're supposed [TS]

  to say it when they say it like I've talked to those guys you know plenty and [TS]

  they think they say if I like that stuff being a lot [TS]

  find a path to success there in terms of you know how to survive how to make [TS]

  money because I think it's awesome [TS]

  they're they're like the glue between everything on the Internet of Things God [TS]

  that term but if if if is it more and more it's like everything that could [TS]

  integrate with that integrates with it which is really kind of awesome and it's [TS]

  sort of an old to me it's the thing that they have that I really like is that the [TS]

  old school like early internet idea of we're gonna open this stuff up and have [TS]

  API's and truly open anything that can integrate with us you don't have to like [TS]

  work out of business development deal or something like that you know we're not [TS]

  gonna cut you off like you know like with the Twitter API where there's these [TS]

  keys and you can get cut off based on the whims of the day it's all just [TS]

  opened its just there and [TS]

  opened its just there and [TS]

  anyway you can figure out a way to integrate your product with them you can [TS]

  do it which to me is is really cool and we don't see enough of that anymore now [TS]

  I mean they're they're the spiritual successor to Yahoo Pipes which was just [TS]

  sat down this year [TS]

  yeah I love ya pipes to shame that day because it was a very new feature to its [TS]

  a shame that they are not surprised that they got rid of it but it's yeah shock [TS]

  tamale go why you know the stock up on her that it doesn't exist anymore you [TS]

  know what else what else is in the news I saw there is a thing last week where [TS]

  the San Jose Business Journal reported that Apple bought an enormous piece of [TS]

  land I guess it's about as big as the campus that they're building somewhere [TS]

  like undeveloped land outside San Jose I'm sure yet about a big chunk of [TS]

  property and nobody really has any idea what they're going to do with it right i [TS]

  mean that's but that's the thing it's like it is news in it is interesting [TS]

  that they bought an enormous piece of land but then you know they're they're [TS]

  not saying what they're going to do it and so everybody is just left to [TS]

  speculate which is great because this is what we do our professional speculate [TS]

  that exactly it is almost better when you can just speculate when you know [TS]

  that literally only four people even know what they're gonna build on it you [TS]

  know who knows me knows you know like a couple of the people know but that's [TS]

  that's it you know because then you're free to just say hey wonder what they [TS]

  could do you're not actually tied down to going well its report this out [TS]

  because you know somebody knows there's a chain yeah I mean fifteen like fifteen [TS]

  thousand workers or whatever there is what they're estimating I think that [TS]

  they could hold it there is in the RD bada 290,000 square foot building in [TS]

  North sent as a as well and I guess is like the first officer since the [TS]

  eighties so investing and it is interesting to me they're they're buying [TS]

  a plot of land that is [TS]

  car factory sized yeah I miss it interesting [TS]

  just exactly where I I do wonder though I mean it's like if they don't build any [TS]

  of the computer no I guess they do build up the Mac Pros but that the whole [TS]

  building the macros in the us- thing that you don't haven't heard much about [TS]

  that recently and the phones of course are still all assembled in China I [TS]

  imagine that means that they would realize that shipping a phone from China [TS]

  to USA is very different than shipping a car from China to the USA might send it [TS]

  means that they would make cars in China but I don't know the factory it is [TS]

  interesting that it is roughly the Rapinoe it would fit a factory and there [TS]

  are cars made in the USA mean that's the difference you know you know there's a [TS]

  lot of cars made new s so it's possible it's you know for sure is interesting [TS]

  and what's the square foot so it's I thought three acres and I wonder what [TS]

  square footage that rosa because the the Tesla the Tesla factories 5.3 million [TS]

  square feet [TS]

  I don't know what this forty three acre piece of land translates into [TS]

  but sadly it seems to be operative size but I am getting into trouble here [TS]

  seventeen the math but regardless just has a factory in Fremont [TS]

  you know the story behind that how they got their factory no I don't think so [TS]

  said they there was the factory there that was owned by jim and Toyoda and it [TS]

  was like in 1984 the Chilean and jim got together this was like right post the [TS]

  whole japanese cars what is realizing Toyota was actually ahead of you know [TS]

  American manufacturing and they said they got together and they created this [TS]

  thing called new me which is I don't know what it stands for like asthma the [TS]

  acronym because it's funny it is the United Motor something but basically [TS]

  they got together and created this new me partnership where they worked on [TS]

  advanced tech in there together that they would share [TS]

  you know whether that's tough because in the dasher drivetrain or whatever I [TS]

  don't know but there's a partnership that existed for years until 2009 and [TS]

  right when the partnership is dissolving and they were looking to sell the [TS]

  factory tested was likely running out of money and didn't have enough to buy to [TS]

  build their own but just headed up money and was able to raise enough money to [TS]

  buy this factory and and I think GMA actually took a stake if I remember [TS]

  correctly interest to you it a camera which basically they were able to buy [TS]

  this pact factory per pennies pennies on the dollar is normally required billions [TS]

  to buy you know but Apple certainly doesn't have that problem you know they [TS]

  have billions they could definitely buy buy their own factory but it was very [TS]

  interesting list was able to stop this thing up and renovate it and make it [TS]

  their own now they've done several operates all you know pristine wait all [TS]

  kinds of robotics stuff inside it's very very impressive but II you one wonders [TS]

  what one could do with unlimited funds right in not having to just scoop up [TS]

  something that already existed on the fly his death has done a pretty decent [TS]

  job of turning out cars from that when nobody thought they ever could also be [TS]

  interesting to see what somebody could built from the ground up and had [TS]

  essentially unlimited money big picture and there's a you know it's one of those [TS]

  where there's smoke there's fire things I mean Apple's made a higher they've [TS]

  hired people from the auto industry it's you know and some sense it seems crazy [TS]

  its like commanders everybody gonna make cars I mean you know it is but on the [TS]

  other hand it to me it kinda makes sense and to me it it now at the idea about [TS]

  getting into making cars and you know there's this big leak of their did you [TS]

  know that they've had high-level discussions with BMW about a partnership [TS]

  maybe you know clearly there is looking into it I mean you can almost at that as [TS]

  a fact I mean I and the only way that is not a fact that they're at least [TS]

  thinking about making cars would mean that an awful lot of reporting is has [TS]

  been fabricated so let's get there at least looking into it [TS]

  I think it's definitely safe to say they're looking at cars government space [TS]

  and they're not going to get in the car play and not think about the rest of the [TS]

  dash [TS]

  I think it did you know at a very high level it just makes intuitive sense [TS]

  because cars cost a lot of money and they involve day and can be [TS]

  differentiated and succeed because of design and they're going to be [TS]

  increasingly computerized in various ways not just like what you know having [TS]

  a touch screen on the dash but you know this [TS]

  self-driving and stuff like that and crash detection and you know trying to [TS]

  make cars that whether their self driving or entirely or partially or [TS]

  something like that but you know we're gonna head within our lifetimes were [TS]

  gonna get to a point where cars can't crash and or at least the it's [TS]

  exceedingly rare you know that is very very difficult to do try to get up to [TS]

  like airline level of safety as opposed to you know it truly I mean if you [TS]

  really I think you know and then we'll quickly look back on and like the number [TS]

  of people who die every year now in car accidents and we're gonna it's gonna [TS]

  look barbaric I really do think that's coming I did you know there's a there's [TS]

  money to be made [TS]

  be designed counts see they can be cool [TS]

  therefore I why wouldn't Apple wanna make it really i mean aren't those the [TS]

  exact arguments behind why they got into making watches people spend a lot of [TS]

  money on him [TS]

  design counts and we think watches or call therefore we're gonna make what [TS]

  yeah yeah I think so I think I think you're right in the thought processes [TS]

  can we differentiate right can we make money and I think that a lot of people [TS]

  run aground against that when they're thinking about what Apple will or won't [TS]

  do or may or may not do and they run aground against this argument like oh [TS]

  well can they make a bunch of money at it and that's not necessarily the [TS]

  argument when I think it's obviously part of it and you know ever foreseeable [TS]

  going into a business where they can't sustain it on its own merit [TS]

  or as a support structure for another business which is awake and iTunes work [TS]

  for many years until it started making a lot of money but I think that it's it's [TS]

  highly unlikely that they're ever going to go into a space where they can't [TS]

  differentiate themselves strongly and that differentiation doesn't lead to [TS]

  what they perceive anyway let's just stateside Stephanie arguments but what [TS]

  they perceived to be consumed benefit benefit for people that are buying it [TS]

  and I think cars right cards right for that because I mean I love I love of [TS]

  cars and I grew up in a building cars my dad loved them and all forms from old to [TS]

  new and you know this side of that side of the world but most of them most of [TS]

  them are crap their crap like you I said it I go I don't want to mention brownies [TS]

  to some people get offended but like you crawl into a good midsize sedan and you [TS]

  just look at the finish makes my skin it like that the door panels you touch them [TS]

  in the plastic you feel like the fingertip feel on the steering wheel [TS]

  just makes me of break on a rash most of the time and so I just think that [TS]

  there's so many I mean can you imagine Jony ive waxing rhapsodic about the [TS]

  letter rapping on the steering wheel I could you know I just think that there's [TS]

  plenty of opportunity there for them to offer a cut above at a price that is [TS]

  reasonable for what you're getting [TS]

  like safety innovations design innovations technology and electronics [TS]

  innovations that set them apart from the pack offer user benefit and allowed them [TS]

  to differentiate its like a no-brainer that they could do something there right [TS]

  and the industry is heading towards some sort of inflection point where new [TS]

  technologies are finally I hate to use the word finally but finally you know [TS]

  taking over from internal combustion engine and I haven't I've actually never [TS]

  been in a Tesla Model S I do love I love the way they look and you know but I've [TS]

  never been in one but somebody mentioned the other day that doesn't have the [TS]

  because it doesn't have a transmission it doesn't have the transmission home [TS]

  under 40 center column [TS]

  right and I had never occurred to me that a car couldn't wouldn't have that [TS]

  every car I've ever been in this had the transmission of its I've never lost [TS]

  space you know what you mean that there's no of course you know but that's [TS]

  crazy to me but it's just one small thing of like hey look we can rethink [TS]

  lot of things you know with new technology and we're headed there so [TS]

  kind of exciting thing is is that making cars is physically it takes a lot of [TS]

  space so I i really do hate it I just a guess I don't know anything about this [TS]

  real estate transaction if I had to bet though boy I have to think it's about [TS]

  the car development thing just because I think you need so much space you know [TS]

  that it and maybe you'd wanna have them off on their own [TS]

  you know campus yeah I mean the problem with the divining rod stuff about the [TS]

  car in about any other projects that they probably have half a dozen really [TS]

  far-out project projects that would blow up in headlines going on right now they [TS]

  literally are just like I don't know let's try this right and they put [TS]

  several people on it and they give us some resources and they play with it [TS]

  until they see it something interesting comes a bit and I think that's just the [TS]

  value of having their structure their cellular structure the way that they [TS]

  they develop products and experiment with different lines of thought so the [TS]

  watch interface came out of that and you know that obviously multi-touch [TS]

  everybody knows by now the multi-touch came out of that essentially a side bet [TS]

  experiment and that kind of thing leads to any leads to misinformation somebody [TS]

  can take something as as being you know in production or give them getting with [TS]

  the launch and it's really just four guys in a room talking about it you know [TS]

  and I think that that that aspect of it leads to a lot of false starts and also [TS]

  leads and all that jazz so it's hard to throw a divining rod on this but [TS]

  considering the stuff that that we've heard publicly and seen publicly the [TS]

  amount of people they've hired there I think it's safe to say that they see [TS]

  something worth exploring in the automotive space and I think that if [TS]

  you're looking there [TS]

  then you start thinking about and technologies that would attach to that [TS]

  space and some of the stuff that we've seen over the past couple years like [TS]

  things that I've heard things that people have reported but were never able [TS]

  to really lock down starts to make some sense because when you start thinking [TS]

  about be thinking the car as you mentioned with like the hump on the [TS]

  floor right that's something you don't foresee until you get in there and then [TS]

  you're like oh hey we don't need this right like this doesn't exist in our car [TS]

  I test this first one was a revamps you know smart car from ATM and then they [TS]

  did it revamps mercedes c these class or something like that they just beat [TS]

  electrique obviously in those those designed things aren't apparent because [TS]

  they haven't been built from the ground up to work the way they want and when [TS]

  they start designing them unless they're like oh hey we don't need this right and [TS]

  i think that there's some other things you could think about like for instance [TS]

  augmented reality like apple patents about 3d gesture control and augmented [TS]

  reality for a while and rumblings of that what if they have an Augmented [TS]

  Reality teaming somebody goes oh well they're gonna launch augmented reality [TS]

  for you like a glass glasses for your face [TS]

  well maybe not what if it's for a windshield what if you don't have to [TS]

  think about the way windshield works in the same way and obviously other car [TS]

  manufacturers have sort of played with this idea of the windshield providing [TS]

  you with the heads up display but what if they took that to like it's logical [TS]

  extent and said it's only gonna give you 100 is the speed limit its gonna give [TS]

  you a collision warnings and it's going to highlight potholes for you and all [TS]

  this other stuff there's just so much that could be done but hasn't been done [TS]

  because people are so tied into the way things work now and they're convinced [TS]

  that they can get away with offering people the lowest common denominator of [TS]

  product and still charge them seem out for it so they don't have to have not [TS]

  been forced to innovate by anybody and test was starting to do that they're [TS]

  certain people certain to feel the heat from them but can you imagine how the [TS]

  industry would be changed if Apple [TS]

  threw their hat in the ring and said we're thinking hard about this and this [TS]

  is the way things work now look at their damn phones you know like everybody was [TS]

  happy with the way phones were working and then I was like oh ok yeah that's [TS]

  the way things work now [TS]

  you know so I think there's potential there for everyone to end up benefiting [TS]

  regardless of whether they own an Apple car not and I think those are the [TS]

  coolest things I think I think that thing that gets overlooked about from [TS]

  the tech industry is like inside the valley the perspective that i think is [TS]

  is missed is the degree to which Apple can in with the the stature that they [TS]

  have now the way that they can influence the culture as a whole and just as bad [TS]

  where I'm going with this is the way that they've just got people talking [TS]

  about watches period outside you know the tech world and in the tech world [TS]

  they would say the argument would be will be even happier no watches just the [TS]

  newest SmartWatch we've had people and great where and Samsung is made you know [TS]

  that whole bunch of watches in the last two or three years and none of those [TS]

  ever ever existed you have to be honored to even know about them nobody whether [TS]

  regardless of how many people are have already bought an Apple watch it's out [TS]

  there and people like when you wear when I wear my Apple watch people say is that [TS]

  Apple iTouch like they just are aware that it is like to me that sort of [TS]

  awareness could really you know Apple can influence the car industry in the [TS]

  same way you know that the people will be aware of it in a way that they're not [TS]

  aware of you know like Google's self-driving cars and stuff like that [TS]

  yeah I think so too I think that there's an opportunity there for them to sort of [TS]

  lay down a bar that people have to cross right and have to rise above in order to [TS]

  be relevant [TS]

  that's that's the sort of thing with the phones and just get out of the car then [TS]

  you had to have an iPhone yeah oh yeah oh it works without your iPhone but only [TS]

  for twenty miles and it doesn't know GPS nothing I don't know maybe maybe it [TS]

  doesn't even start up with that your iPhone I don't know maybe it does you [TS]

  know like the only way you can started is there such I D with their water fun [TS]

  let me take one last break here and thank our last sponsor of the day or at [TS]

  least and it is our good friends at mail route may I L R O U T E mail you know [TS]

  who should be handling your e-mail e-mail nerds who do nothing but email [TS]

  these guys credit the first cloud-based email filtering solution and then they [TS]

  sold it to Microsoft now they're back with the most innovative and effective [TS]

  spam and virus filtering available [TS]

  virus filtering I mean I guess it to be windows thing I mean for me as a Mac [TS]

  user I don't worry about getting viruses in my email I do worry about spam and [TS]

  what mail route does is it gives you a world without spam viruses or bounced [TS]

  emails imagine opening up your email [TS]

  posted on your domain and seeing only the legitimate email that you want to [TS]

  see and received mail route can make this a daily reality no matter if you [TS]

  have your own to me that's the thing you need your card list of who else it mail [TS]

  route can help what you do is you just set up your DNS so that your mail goes [TS]

  to mail route first and then mail route you send [TS]

  give them the DNS for your actual email server so outside world the email comes [TS]

  through mail route mail route takes out all the crap and forwards on what's good [TS]

  to your email server so your email server the server that's actually hoping [TS]

  it doesn't change at all you just change the DNS and they have all sorts of stuff [TS]

  to help you through doing that you just have the email go through them first [TS]

  then it goes to your server you don't have to change your server and all of a [TS]

  sudden all the junk is gone and it is super high quality I know tons and tons [TS]

  of people out there who use Gmail only because of their spam filtering I think [TS]

  mail route is as good or better than gmail I do have some gmail email that [TS]

  goes through Gmail also have email that goes through mail road just wanna see if [TS]

  anything I think mail route is better I think less spam goes through mail and [TS]

  email it certainly competitive really really is and therefore if you want you [TS]

  know for all the good reasons that you might want to host your own email on [TS]

  your own domain it is a tremendous tremendous service I I cannot say how [TS]

  well this works for filtering out the junk and it's got cool features where [TS]

  you know here's the big thing you yes you want to filter out all the junk but [TS]

  in case something is falsely flagged how do you find out where you can set it up [TS]

  if you want to send you like a report like a weekly report like here's a bunch [TS]

  of the maybes here is you know here's a bunch of emails that we thought were [TS]

  spam we held them for you if you want to go and correct one of these just you [TS]

  know here's where you go and click click this ok this will remember that this is [TS]

  not spam [TS]

  really really easy easy to set up its very reliable used by large universities [TS]

  large corporations they've got huge clients I just can't say enough about it [TS]

  it's really really good it's got a good user interface simple and effective if [TS]

  if you're just a user it's great it just works you'll forget that it's there [TS]

  could you just don't see it you know that's how good email should work you [TS]

  just forget it [TS]

  if you're an email admin or I D Pro they've built all sorts of tools with [TS]

  you in mind they even have an API so you can program your own stuff that work [TS]

  against it [TS]

  they support LDAP Active Directory TLS male bagging outbound relay everything [TS]

  you want from the people handling your email and this is all they do all they [TS]

  do is just hosts are not host email but but deal with email and make it as [TS]

  trouble-free as possible so to remove spam from your life for good [TS]

  go to mail route dot net / TTS the talk show / TTS and don't know you came from [TS]

  the show and you'll get a free trial and because you use that code / TTS you will [TS]

  get 10% off for the lifetime of your account so you use them for the next [TS]

  twenty years you'll save 10% every time the bill comes up by using a code when [TS]

  you sign up to get a mail route that net / DTS and sign up to take cannot say [TS]

  enough good things about them [TS]

  raid great service I would almost say indispensable if your hosting your own [TS]

  email really great stuff [TS]

  what else is in the news I'm trying to think there is the thing you know you [TS]

  must know that this and I guess I guess who just came out yesterday with mark [TS]

  fuhrman where your former colleague Darrell Etherington is now working for [TS]

  Apple PR and yeah yeah I mean I i dont know I know he doesn't work for me it [TS]

  was about to say I would hope I would hope that you know half the story [TS]

  yes daryl is not no longer in our room doesn't work for me anymore but I have [TS]

  respect for him [TS]

  didn't pry into what exactly is doing although my assumption is in Canada [TS]

  yeah it's a gentlemen's agreement with that somebody was your former colleague [TS]

  but it's interesting I know it doesn't make any sense for me to cry anymore [TS]

  because it is a company cover and the less that I learn about it through [TS]

  friend channels the more I can report on it through my normal reporting channels [TS]

  you know it's just it's one of those things it's a careful line yet to trade [TS]

  especially when somebody crosses the line in between PR you know our comms [TS]

  and and a journalist to get a tee and you know there's some people that are [TS]

  irritated with that especially some hard-line journalists that are really [TS]

  irritated by it I'm on my third career and I'm very very reluctant to denigrate [TS]

  anybody to look down on anybody for trying to chase what makes them happy [TS]

  and find something they don't wanna be happy doing and you know yeah I you know [TS]

  while you're doing the job on one of these sides I you know if you're like us [TS]

  right now and you are in some kind of media where we're covering Apple for our [TS]

  readership and somebody else is working for Apple under PR staff it's you know [TS]

  obviously it is two opposing sides were one side is [TS]

  you know by definition their job is to push the company's line and our job is [TS]

  to make sure that we're writing what's true and useful for our readership [TS]

  I don't think there's any reason to hard feelings about somebody who goes from [TS]

  one side to the other [TS]

  I mean it's sort of a natural transition that this is the here's the thing that [TS]

  thing is that where its disproportionate where it's not balanced is Apple has a [TS]

  lot of money and the man I know it's very hard to compete with and the media [TS]

  in general is not going through a good time and some publications you know are [TS]

  going through a terrible time and even think this may be why you lab is even [TS]

  publications that are thriving or being successful don't have the sort of [TS]

  budgets for salaries that maybe Apple does I think that's fair at the fair [TS]

  assumption to make yes you know tickets is doing ok but yeah we definitely don't [TS]

  have sixty billion dollars in the bank if we need to do some salaries here in [TS]

  there no I mean I think it's more interesting in light of like kind of the [TS]

  overall and I have had drew Olanoff who hired him back to work at TechCrunch and [TS]

  electric with you are used to work with him at the next level as well but Drew [TS]

  has spent some time in columns he was actually in with startups managing [TS]

  community in doing comments before he was ever a writer and then come back to [TS]

  it for a while where to Yahoo for a while and handle comes over there was [TS]

  recently at a couple startups and stuff like that but just really had a desire [TS]

  to write again and I'm really happy about that cuz I was able to work with [TS]

  him again he's actually got a great mind and things about this upgrade and [TS]

  because of his work there he's got good perspective so I honestly think that [TS]

  that experience on both sides of the line makes you more SATA more savvy [TS]

  reporter makes you understand what companies are saying when they say [TS]

  certain things when they're yes I knew you know it's your BS detector is is [TS]

  better I think in general but I don't think that it's it's one of those things [TS]

  that it's impossible to be honest or or your job if you're if there's ever a [TS]

  possibility of you crossing that line back and forth to think that assumes [TS]

  people are at AMA tante yeah and there's no editorial direction and no editor [TS]

  going like he should we be pushing harder on this you know it's just you [TS]

  know nobody's paying attention said that there's lots of implications there if [TS]

  you're if you're saying that's you know this can never happen that you're part [TS]

  of a tribe and that you've somehow betrayed your tribe by switching to the [TS]

  other side i mean i think thats not since I mean it's not really at the top [TS]

  I mean Steve Dowling got apple from I believe directly they key was the CNBC [TS]

  Silicon Valley correspondent so he went right from you know reporting on [TS]

  companies like Apple TV to you know being now is the head of PR and I dunno [TS]

  can't help but think that maybe there's a little even know a lot of the hires [TS]

  that they've had it not been for PR and supposedly as reported by Mark Harmon [TS]

  that's what they're doing [TS]

  you know but it wouldn't surprise me that under Stalin's leadership that they [TS]

  might go more in that direction just because that's how he got there well [TS]

  remember too that if you look at Marks report he reported later on that Josh [TS]

  Lowensohn was also on the Apple be that's you know he also was hired right [TS]

  around the same time tara was hired it looks like from the report and I know [TS]

  anything about that but it it seems like you could be right in that there's a [TS]

  street fair of that I obviously as somebody in this industry works without [TS]

  other reporters you know and and pays attention to the company it's been [TS]

  really obvious to me that they've been snapping up our reporters as I'm sure [TS]

  you know i mean they hired by Chris Breen and you know they heard an on and [TS]

  Brian from an intact and not all of those as you mentioned that been for [TS]

  common position right supposedly they have been raping and pillaging [TS]

  you know I don't like that term by using it but you know in the making sense [TS]

  they've been pillaging the media village you know you know and I think that [TS]

  that's it's evident that that's what they're doing whether that's like steve [TS]

  is like hey these guys are the people we need to get what I don't know you know [TS]

  yeah and I know John staff from Akron this is also in government story [TS]

  yesterday he's not working PR he's working Apple University and the other [TS]

  one that wasn't mentioned it really immediate hire but it sort of is it was [TS]

  I feel like he's just like so many people when they go to Apple he's [TS]

  outside their walls he's gone very quiet is Michael Gartenberg alright I was in [TS]

  the analysts and was the rare gem of an Apple analyst who was really smart and [TS]

  insightful and wrote very clearly in normal you know straightforward language [TS]

  and so yeah of course that's why they hired him because he was the good thing [TS]

  is the shooting themselves in the foot because there's nothing anybody left [TS]

  outside who understand their business and can be moderated about the way that [TS]

  the report on ya garden garden Gartenberg doesn't work in PR he is in [TS]

  Schiller's group but doing what I i dont know so he's you know somewhere in [TS]

  product marketing which is it makes sense that they would be most people on [TS]

  that understand their business and have a an insight right but they can tap into [TS]

  internally it just seems funny to me because it's like if you hire all of the [TS]

  reporters that are able to write about you without being history on a course to [TS]

  fit all you're left with is a bunch of flag-waving crazies who are happy to [TS]

  drop all over you and whatever reason Apple's closed mouth attitudes have [TS]

  maybe let you know [TS]

  exacerbated that problem whatever the case maybe they you know there's you're [TS]

  definitely removing pieces from the board that [TS]

  could be not advocates cuz that's not their job and hopefully it's not their [TS]

  job but could report on it with intelligence in with moderation and when [TS]

  they have criticisms they are they are based in contextual understanding the [TS]

  way the company actually works [TS]

  not the way that you make it work through intellectual dishonesty you know [TS]

  when you're reporting so I think that there's something I don't know you know [TS]

  some people are like a they're smart they need to go there and then Mike you [TS]

  know on the other side I say well if they're smart and you snap the ball up [TS]

  and all that's left is the dummies but not calling myself a damning [TS]

  eventually eventually I know another good one who left after Apple though was [TS]

  Ellis hamburger who left the verge for snapshot I I guess he's I don't know [TS]

  what he's do I guess he's running PR firm or something but yeah there now [TS]

  it's exactly what he's doing but yeah he did leave I mean obviously saw the [TS]

  possibilities in the end understood what they were kind of after a little sooner [TS]

  than a lot of people I think I was I was nodding along with other stuff he was [TS]

  writing about them and they probably were too so I think that's probably why [TS]

  they stopped him up but yeah it's definitely a trend a wider trend you [TS]

  know and it's you know again like you said and you're you know in the hot seat [TS]

  for it running techCrunch's that it's it's it's one thing for you to be you [TS]

  know if you're pursuing someone who uses a good writer it one thing when you're [TS]

  competing against other publications with you know roughly in the same [TS]

  business at another when you're competing startups like snapshot that [TS]

  have raised millions and millions of dollars or companies like Apple that [TS]

  while we're sitting here talking about it has made tens of millions of dollars [TS]

  even more money than we'll ever make an entire land right while we've been [TS]

  talking on this episode [TS]

  right exactly it is hard it is hard in you know when we look for an obviously [TS]

  every publication has their own sort of desires at once and and you'll have [TS]

  different desires and once for each position that we hire for but we we [TS]

  generally higher reporters for a very specific reason and that's like their [TS]

  outspoken there they understand what they what they think they understand [TS]

  their space is extremely well and they want to express them separately in a way [TS]

  that says this is what I think and thats doesn't that's not the way a lot of [TS]

  other publications work you know they hide behind a lot of editorial layers [TS]

  everything is leached out by the time you read it and see you don't know [TS]

  really whether this is the way this is what the weather's thought process was [TS]

  at all you know and because we worked that way it actually lends itself [TS]

  towards people like apple or a startup or VC firm or something like that [TS]

  understanding the way that person's brain works more than Wall Street [TS]

  Journal right right so I think we are higher target for poaching in that [TS]

  regard which you don't people get angry about it and the they do they do talk to [TS]

  us and get get a little bit they throw a lot of shade let's put it that way [TS]

  because people that work at TechCrunch maybe go to work at a company after they [TS]

  worked here for me like I said I don't begrudge anybody the ability to try [TS]

  something new and in the second aspect of it is I view it as a compliment [TS]

  because they don't go work for other media organizations because I think that [TS]

  they find work here as a lot of freedom they have a lot of flexibility they have [TS]

  space to to create what they want to create and then they go soviet they go [TS]

  somewhere else it's like walking back into a cage in shutting the door behind [TS]

  you you know I i mean that sincerely not just because you know you're here and [TS]

  smoke up your ass but TechCrunch is and always has been you know right from when [TS]

  it started as my parents say just you know his own personal site but it's [TS]

  always been a site where the bylines mattered in terms of the writer has a [TS]

  voice you know and I C you know like I noticed I noticed that drew came back to [TS]

  TechCrunch because I [TS]

  I know his name because he's got a voice and you know I started seeing by drew [TS]

  Olanoff again on TechCrunch and Iraq but I noticed that there are a lot of sites [TS]

  where the bylines don't matter not in terms of credit but where you you know [TS]

  you just don't you don't there is no voice from the writer there's no [TS]

  personality and it's just like a write-in Eric well watered down house [TS]

  style rights right exactly and I think that there there is plenty of room for [TS]

  that especially when it comes to censor the reporting i mean obviously I'm not [TS]

  gonna have a writer come out what the bombastic teak on something that's very [TS]

  sensitive like a founder who has committed suicide for instance right you [TS]

  had happened very very sadly 00 couple of times over the past couple years and [TS]

  saddam is not a situation where you're going to do that but by and large the [TS]

  large majority of tech coverage is very is is one of two things it's either [TS]

  incredibly over the top and and intellectually dishonest where somebody [TS]

  creates [TS]

  doctor yesterday published an obituary fried eggs good I like I don't begrudge [TS]

  anybody there [TS]

  angle but I just find it really hard to then take them seriously and so then [TS]

  either that or it is the very dry distant [TS]

  hide behind several layers of editorial so you don't know whether or not I [TS]

  actually believe this thing and my goal is always if I'm gonna hire a writer [TS]

  that elevator like what we do and how I want them to write the core of it is do [TS]

  you believe what you're about to publish and if you don't then go back to the [TS]

  drawing board rethink it you know it's not thought about what it looks like or [TS]

  what it feels like or what you know people the way people take it you know [TS]

  if you report on something you say a certain thing and they trash you that's [TS]

  fine [TS]

  it really doesn't matter all that matters is do you believe it because in [TS]

  the end that's why you can go home and sleep at night [TS]

  wake up tomorrow and we're both happy and we smile we see each other [TS]

  and we're not all depressed and and in our cups because we're publishing things [TS]

  we don't believe you know or publishing things we don't believe in and I think [TS]

  that's the biggest thing that's hard especially when all this money is at [TS]

  play [TS]

  you know what about what about just how metric of publish it writing stuff that [TS]

  you wouldn't want to read that is that to me is where if you're well and you [TS]

  know if you're a writer creator if you're creating things that you yourself [TS]

  would not want to consume that's that to me is when you miserable death to me and [TS]

  definitely warnings about wraps it up she talked about the only thing I could [TS]

  think to talk about would be the two of the things I swear apple.com redesign [TS]

  which I don't know that I have a lot to say about the other thing is that Apple [TS]

  music stuff that came out yesterday at EQ and what's his name did interview [TS]

  with USA today even though they said in a music first so that the news is that [TS]

  they have eleven million subscribers but everybody is still in the three-month [TS]

  period so there's no no no metrics yet on how many people are actually pain but [TS]

  that seems like a good start [TS]

  you know and and there was an acknowledgement of yester some bugs and [TS]

  it's not working great for everybody and we're on it what is when I'm when I [TS]

  can't make up my mind about and I it's just haven't used a lot I don't know [TS]

  grumpy old man I don't listen to a lot of I never really listened to I don't [TS]

  listen to music while I work that's the big thing I can't write or read why [TS]

  listen to music or I should say I can't but I find it to be distracting I like [TS]

  to write and read in silence [TS]

  I like to write in silence I can listen listen to music while I read but yeah if [TS]

  I'm writing I'm not going to put headphones on and listen to music unless [TS]

  and this is very precise thing to the grass and now we're talking about teens [TS]

  but I just find the since you brought it up every once in a while I get the [TS]

  safety is to write a story and literally the entire story is already done before [TS]

  I start writing it and in that case I play the music to get me through [TS]

  actually putting on the page has its boring and that the writing part is [TS]

  boring machine like these words downs other people know understand that then [TS]

  I'll put on some techno and all you know blaster it but yeah but if I'm trying to [TS]

  formulate ideas I do find it distracting [TS]

  yeah that's a funny way to put it there are in broad sense I do find that when I [TS]

  write there's two types of stories is the one that I already have it and it [TS]

  does seem like it's just drudgery it not drudgery but work it it feels like work [TS]

  to get it out and then there's the kind where I don't know where I'm going and [TS]

  it it's actually fun to write it even though it actually is more work because [TS]

  I actually have to go back and and change it because the the course of [TS]

  writing it is how I formulate the final idea exactly you teach yourself what you [TS]

  meant by writing at the end of it you're like oh I met this and I gotta go back [TS]

  in and it is so a quick spoiler it's a article I'm writing for verifiable it [TS]

  isn't out yet it might be a race against time whether it out before this episode [TS]

  of the podcast is out but I'm just writing a post that's just here's my [TS]

  guessing on what the new iPhone lineup will look like next month and I started [TS]

  it by trying to get to where Moulton I last week on the show were both thinking [TS]

  maybe they would do like a four-inch iPhone 6 see sort of like the internals [TS]

  of the iPod touches that just came out and the AAA and the foreign size and [TS]

  that was when I started writing the article about and as I wrote the article [TS]

  I've came to the conclusion that that's [TS]

  that's not going to happen in that that I know and discovery is but I actually [TS]

  had to then go back to the beginning and like rewrite almost everything I started [TS]

  by trying to make the argument that this is why I think they might do this and as [TS]

  I wrote the article it's like by forcing myself to make sentences out of its like [TS]

  you know that's not going to happen there you know what they're doing [TS]

  there'd be leaks of the components by now and there are no leads so it's not [TS]

  gonna happen that's called being intellectually honest right but that is [TS]

  you prove you try to proving you try to stretch the facts and truth of what you [TS]

  know to be true if it in there that she had created before you know and so [TS]

  there's there's that too it's fun so anyway I did you know my daily life I [TS]

  don't listen to a lot of me i i work an awful lot if you know dicking around on [TS]

  the web and linking the things you can call work and when I'm doing that I'm [TS]

  not listen to music constantly waiting for somebody to make me go back and eat [TS]

  it everyday [TS]

  ok well when they tend to go back to that feel that way I think we're OK and [TS]

  then when I'm listening to stuff because I'm bored I want something to listen to [TS]

  its almost always podcasts and so I don't listen to a lot of music and so [TS]

  I've played around without them [TS]

  music and it works for me but I don't use it enough to run into these bugs [TS]

  that people have run into so I just don't know why I don't feel like I'm in [TS]

  a position to judge this is where I'm getting is is this a a sort of rough 1.0 [TS]

  and has some kinks to be worked out but it's you know they're on track and yes [TS]

  that just bugs it's a one point out they ship when they shipped and they'll fix [TS]

  it or is it a disaster and they've got a permanent mess on their hands [TS]

  I i dont know I see people espousing both opinions I mean like I just joke [TS]

  Gizmodo published an obituary frightens yesterday so I i tend to think that's [TS]

  hyperbole but I don't know that I've used it enough to form an opinion on [TS]

  I mean I think everybody who's used it for any period of time [TS]

  understands that iTunes is not the most well-written piece of software anymore [TS]

  and that's no real one person's fault necessarily though you can probably find [TS]

  somebody in the chain somewhere who you could blame but I think that it's been [TS]

  asked to do so many different things by now that it's impossible for it to [TS]

  execute on any of them with any real sense of of competency you know it just [TS]

  does stuff it doesn't really do stuff well and i think that that is part of [TS]

  what we're up against here when they're smashing Apple music into iTunes and [TS]

  which is the argument for separating it right [TS]

  having an apple music or whatever the case may be and which I think honestly [TS]

  would lead to more complexity so I'm not usually fund but you could easily see a [TS]

  music app and a video is that right in and the videos app contains your video [TS]

  library just like it doesn't I Wes and the music app contained you know radio [TS]

  and your music and all that stuff and then the stores were then attached to [TS]

  each of them you can't even look at the apple.com redesign as a sort of [TS]

  indicators to with it think about it and right now your music collection is [TS]

  separate from the store but without the music it doesn't have to be right [TS]

  it literally is you could be 11 units and you could you could be listening to [TS]

  a song and attitude collection which is totally possible without the music right [TS]

  now there's just lots of indicators of a standalone app could really work well [TS]

  and could mesh better than it currently does where you switch back and forth all [TS]

  I know is like my movie library is is pretty big and iTunes handles it [TS]

  incredibly poorly in Apple TV handles it even worse [TS]

  yeah I've 954 movies wait how mend 954 wow they are all bought through iTunes [TS]

  or no no no no I'm some of them but you know I have a good portion of them maybe [TS]

  20% or purchase but from iTunes but a large majority of them are ripped [TS]

  blu-rays DVDs other kinds of things so they're not the most amazing quality but [TS]

  a lot of times they're good enough for me to watch every once in a great while [TS]

  what I want to watch it but it's just like a digitized by collection so they [TS]

  did I and you get out what you put that on your home network and iTunes [TS]

  supposedly throwing the idea through your iCloud account you can see them [TS]

  from your Apple TV exactly what the on the Apple TV when you have 954 movies [TS]

  Italy the list scrolls for an eternity rate like it's just a scrollable list [TS]

  there's no genre breakdowns the meditators there but there's no John [TS]

  breakdowns there's no way to even look at them in cover form it's literally [TS]

  just an endlessly scrolling list of names it's the worst possible interface [TS]

  for a largely movie library yeah it's and it's not good it sucks I i out of [TS]

  laziness i mean i i'd still buy Blu rays for movies that i truly love her [TS]

  expected love you know Criterion Collection I've got all kubrick stuff on [TS]

  blu-ray and stuff like that but for the most part if it's just regular crap we [TS]

  just booked by Mr gonna buy weed by the iTunes version so we've got I figured [TS]

  it's like holy cow that's a lot of money is we've been doing it for years we've [TS]

  got a little over 300 movies that we bought from iTunes and on in a [TS]

  soon-to-be dats you know not rips these aren't like on a Mac these are the ones [TS]

  we bought from iTunes but one Apple TV when you visit the current Apple TV when [TS]

  you go to all movies it's like 10 seconds before the list comes up before [TS]

  anything comes up so it's like you almost have to make it easy to get to [TS]

  the one you just be the most recent two or three because they're up there at the [TS]

  top in the little short cut section but if you want to look at a movie that you [TS]

  bought years ago [TS]

  it's really stings he exactly if you if it's something about recent I mean the [TS]

  cycle we go through with my daughter is you know will you know once you try this [TS]

  you know this movie and she'll hate it but you have to test it the first time I [TS]

  watch it and then she'll start asked me to watch it again and should watch it [TS]

  over and over again until like I recently introduced her to James and the [TS]

  Giant Peach and at first she was totally disinterested in a completely no thanks [TS]

  but then now she watches it like once or twice a day right and same thing with [TS]

  Iron Giant where you know those of the movie she alternates between right now [TS]

  been previously did I was like monsters mean can you know so on and so forth [TS]

  right they'll be a thing that is she's interested in so when she wants to watch [TS]

  a movie that day you know what he wanted to be like a giant dildos right at the [TS]

  top but if it's anything else it is a drill-down job to get to the rest of it [TS]

  so regardless of what your use cases whether she should watch movie or you [TS]

  know you're serious movie collector I don't think either people are really [TS]

  being serviced well at this point you know and I think that there needs to be [TS]

  a severe revamp their on the Apple TV but I think that part of that is in [TS]

  iTunes as well as iTunes at the moment it's not all that effective either it's [TS]

  either a list or a list of covers that does not scroll well really bored [TS]

  takes a long time to load anyway I have a very strong feeling that there will be [TS]

  no answer to that problem in a month [TS]

  yeah I think there has to be i dont i dont really I'm in the same boat as you [TS]

  as far as music goes I don't have a really comprehensive list of my gripes [TS]

  or anything like that because I use it really casually you know I have a music [TS]

  library but most my music library is classic rock as I that's when I was [TS]

  buying a lot of music on CDs and rip them I was buying a lot of classic rock [TS]

  my musical tastes have changed significantly over the last three albums [TS]

  I bought were like Mumford and Sons Brandon Flowers new album and the [TS]

  contrary soundtrack so they come over the map now but [TS]

  I very rarely go through my music library in place up anymore I generally [TS]

  pub on Rdio and then just listen to the popular stuff like what's new what's [TS]

  interesting so I can discover new people and go oh I like you know I like you [TS]

  know man camera like whatever you know what to subject or some some new artists [TS]

  that I I am pretty excited about now and so that discovery aspect of things is [TS]

  serviced fine for me by clicking on the radio tab and just you know letting it [TS]

  play or forgoing the four new tab and just clicking on something so for me I'm [TS]

  pretty easy so I'm not the right person to be a critical about it easy pleaser [TS]

  that's the first thing that comes to mind when I think of you mad easy [TS]

  pleaser in this one small what do you think about the new apple.com yeah yeah [TS]

  ok so I think it's good I don't like it like you I don't have a lot to say about [TS]

  it but I think it is it's going to be a nice statement for anybody that has a [TS]

  separate store to get over it and said in a great their exploration curation [TS]

  and store all into one to have a soul like showroom mentality I think you put [TS]

  that put it that way [TS]

  yeah yeah but I think that's that's accurate i think that the reason it was [TS]

  it was more of an engineering issue than its vision that that's the way they [TS]

  should do it right it was it just sort of evolved that way and that they had [TS]

  this convoluted web objects system that they wrote in house for the store they [TS]

  did a lot of cool things and couldn't be easily replaced but it also had a lot of [TS]

  problems and so to me the most interesting thing we talked about and [TS]

  and a lot of people have a story like if we don't it's the one day I know we [TS]

  haven't talked about is are they still gonna take the store down when they have [TS]

  like a press event and long story short that the deal is is that that's started [TS]

  because technically they had to take the store down for hours to make certain [TS]

  there were certain types of changes that had involved taking the entire store [TS]

  down for hours and it that's part of it was the way that they're different [TS]

  stores around the world you know four different currencies and stuff like that [TS]

  and part of it was just the way that it was made and that explains why there are [TS]

  times you know there's almost like a bad signal like the Apple stores down likes [TS]

  if it's down the morning of WWDC keynote or product right or if it's down next [TS]

  september you know I don't know what day is the consensus gas for when you know [TS]

  that's going to be you know I don't know looking at my calendar I'm thinking [TS]

  maybe september fourteenth or something in December 14th September 15th in a bit [TS]

  of the press events go out our invites go out you know the week before and the [TS]

  story goes down that morning will be everybody knows that but there were [TS]

  times you know four years we're like on a random Wednesday the Apple Store goes [TS]

  down for an hour and people get excited and you know what's going on and it [TS]

  comes back up and it was nothing right so my understanding is that those days [TS]

  are over they the new engineering that's going on here is they're not going to [TS]

  have to take the store down for just just because they have to but my guess [TS]

  is they'll still do something like that evolved into a way to make people [TS]

  excited you know it build anticipation and quite frankly if they're announcing [TS]

  new iPhones this morning they don't want you to buy an old you know me because [TS]

  they know you're gonna send it right you know you're gonna be mad to cancel your [TS]

  order and and send it back anyway yeah so maybe they just turn off the buy [TS]

  button right I mean I think that there I asked about this and got no comment but [TS]

  you know about the whole like wellville website come down how [TS]

  and got no comment from them but the if you look at the way that the switch when [TS]

  they did it like 40 countries like forty different stores and they did it [TS]

  seamlessly I actually saw somebody was even browsing the site and it changed on [TS]

  them as they click from one section to another so whether that translates in [TS]

  forward into them being able to do whatever they want without having to [TS]

  take everything down I don't know but it's an interesting indicator you know a [TS]

  leading indicator of maybe the way it works differently now than it did before [TS]

  and one of the reasons that they did all the engineering you know the scenes I [TS]

  mean I would be really surprised if it's so random objects although it may I [TS]

  don't think so and it seems based on my Twitter you know it's hard to tell from [TS]

  the outside but it's clearly not web objects that directly talking to the [TS]

  browser there's some kind of a patchy front and now and now that could be some [TS]

  kind of load balancer something in front of web objects but it doesn't seem like [TS]

  it and I said that it felt faster but I don't know maybe it's that you know what [TS]

  are called the new and shiny placebo effect but a bunch of other people on [TS]

  Twitter said no it's not just you it's definitely faster so that makes me think [TS]

  it's not web objects anymore and if it is web objects went well hidden behind a [TS]

  faster much better-looking yeah anyway that's the news of the week anything [TS]

  else do you want to talk about having lost you probably lost you ok clear [TS]

  again [TS]

  Skype is the worst you know it's funny and that I got you know I don't pay for [TS]

  it I guess I could maybe if I could they go away but this year launched Skype now [TS]

  and it gives you like a list of things you can do and my list of suggested [TS]

  things to do was one upgrade to Windows 10 and to take a depression test is at [TS]

  the that's literally what it says in the main Skype window and a landscape while [TS]

  things to do today and I can't help but think that they're related exactly must [TS]

  be really get that are using Skype is really did it anyway [TS]

  anyway it was you've been extraordinary graces with your time [TS]

  and I was a great conversation Matthew pans arena people can read your work at [TS]

  techcrunch.com where you are your title is editor-in-chief you would it would [TS]

  you title yeah editor-in-chief which is well-deserved you're doing a very good [TS]

  job there [TS]

  CPU and on Twitter they can see your very fine tweets at at panzer P A N Z Y [TS]

  are at a time when I get on skype I typed in panzer and I was very upset [TS]

  when I introduced into just people people introduced me as being so now I [TS]

  just let it ride it's a good name down sounds cool anyway I thank you for your [TS]

  time [TS]