128: ‘Did You Ever Take a Photograph?’, With Guest Matthew Panzarino

0:00:00do i cnt last night I didn't aden was busy last night my daughter's six is

0:00:06taking care of her own oh that's terrible

0:00:08yeah it's a little bit of a cough kind of modeling croup kinda thing so senior

0:00:13three so it happens I get around that age it's sort of like when they get

0:00:18adventures

0:00:19exactly certain things putting on things and I'm helping with this well in the

0:00:25end you know they're always putting things in their mouths but it's like at

0:00:29three they can I find it amazing new places to go to put things right exactly

0:00:35have their ambulatory and they can climb now exactly the first are moving around

0:00:43and you can just sort of like you know clean up a room in a bedroom where

0:00:47everything within reach is reasonably clean and then you know that's good and

0:00:52in 1983 they can get anywhere either you go pull clean room where it's just bare

0:00:58walls to the ceiling or you just gonna have to roll with the punches so it's

0:01:06weird I feel like there's a weird combination August is always a weird

0:01:09time every industry but intact in particular it's always slow in some ways

0:01:16but I feel like this year it's it's interesting and a couple of ways

0:01:21well and wine and I just saw this is right I'll be I'm sure you saw the

0:01:27article as I saw it on TechCrunch is that all the drama Twitter war last

0:01:34great as we record today August 7th the news today is that Chris Sacca whether

0:01:44they come out spray

0:01:45outspoken investor where ya think it is that he gets a fair characterization I

0:01:51doubt he'd talk too much of that lol I don't put words into it but it seems to

0:01:56have no qualms in saying what he believes is the right thing to do there

0:02:00I would also say it would be fair to describe him as influential investor

0:02:05Chris aka- I you know

0:02:09hehe sort of maybe like are intact he sort of like the nice guy version of I

0:02:20can get sicker like right I mean I can I can is sort of a bulldozer I think the

0:02:27exact address to talk to the right people and they look these are the

0:02:30things that connect the way people that are whatever I mean you notice that this

0:02:34is the first time is really kind of come out i mean obviously is set alot about

0:02:38Twitter product and he's written medium posts about what a product and all that

0:02:42stuff either certain things they need to do with their product which is fine

0:02:46everybody has opinions and you know he's known the product for a long time but

0:02:50first a museum and explicitly said like it should

0:02:53hired jack for the CEO spot and I think he does work a lot behind the scenes to

0:02:59kind of connect the dots and try to get the right things to happen with water as

0:03:04he really cares about it but this is the first time is actually kind of come out

0:03:07and said in public on Twitter hey yes you heard jack and you know it seems

0:03:17like there's a whole Twitter CEO thing is such as soap opera i mean you really

0:03:23could not write a more soap opera style story because like a real soap opera the

0:03:30characters don't go away like they've gone through like that right

0:03:36bunch of CEOs and everybody who has ever been the Twitter CEO remains on the

0:03:44board right yeah exactly in the they come back from like oh no they weren't

0:03:50dead they were in the basement like strapped to a gurney and you know a

0:03:54doctor was experimenting on the man now you know your cousin is back and he's in

0:03:58love with you or whatever so you've always got these you know former co

0:04:07founders and CEOs on the board looking over your shoulder I mean even with Dick

0:04:14Costolo you know that he's you know he's he's I guess he is no longer the CEO

0:04:20but he's you know you go right to the book yeah he's on the board I mean I

0:04:26think that Twitter has a unique history in a lot of the people that were really

0:04:31invested in it or not it was not brought on because they were business people

0:04:37because there's this sort of just two old way of thinking about leadership in

0:04:43the valley and depending on the Investor depending on the stage of the company

0:04:48lot of other things you get varying opinions about what's the right thing to

0:04:52do for his leadership goes but there's a huge sort of cadre of people in the

0:04:58valley that follow and and really closely adhere to this technical

0:05:03foundered leadership mentality rate like a person who came up with the idea and

0:05:08maybe even wrote some code in the original concept already been crafted

0:05:12the first first MVP you know product is the person that you leave the company

0:05:17cuz they know what the best they know the underlying sort of purpose that they

0:05:23saw behind it and they can guide that purpose through whatever permutations

0:05:26become if they're in that leadership position whereas outside the valley and

0:05:32even in the valley this there's some folks who are kind of coming around to

0:05:36this type of mentality but outside the value often see somebody being brought

0:05:40in purely because there are good see if they have no idea what the technical

0:05:45aspects of the product until maybe even at first they may not even use it they

0:05:51mean barely noted exist in Gentilly until the CEO search starts happening or

0:05:55whatever but then they get brought in because they are a good see like a good

0:06:00cleanup hitter you know you don't bring them in for their fielding prowess

0:06:04necessarily but you're gonna bring them into to order order order to bring bring

0:06:11them back to home base that's their skill they don't have the other skills

0:06:16Eric Schmidt might be a canonical example of that in terms of you know why

0:06:21did why did Google bring him

0:06:23in in 04 when they did you know that that what was Eric Schmidt's talent that

0:06:29you know I think bottom line that he was seen as being a good CEO and that that's

0:06:35what Google that the time needed and you know it's hard to if that's if you want

0:06:41to take that that stance it's hard to argue against that whatever you think of

0:06:45you know Eric Schmidt and you know Google they certainly have been very

0:06:49successful under him and it seems to have worked well for them

0:06:52yeah me think that larry obviously taking over a lot of people saw that as

0:06:58a sort of Reclamation and resurrection of some Google missions as you know

0:07:03you'll notice that a lot of the experimental programs you know really

0:07:07took on a new life and and respond up after that happened I think that there

0:07:13is something to be said for both know I think that getting your financial

0:07:18underpinnings in order and your business plans aligned with the stuff that's

0:07:22going to help you grow and spend money in the long run is a huge thing with

0:07:26Google there's essentially two ways to think about it you think about Google in

0:07:29terms of weight makes money which is actually quite boring boring to me but

0:07:33not so bad take people might take offense but now they're doing and that's

0:07:37fine but it's fairly straightforward the way they make money is that about the

0:07:42way they spend their money is fascinating

0:07:44endlessly fascinating to me and so that that is like kind of the dual role those

0:07:49two years played it yet and I think the other factor there though is that there

0:07:54was never any kind of drama or tension between our see at least from the

0:07:59outside certainly didn't seem like there was between Larry and Sergey and Eric

0:08:04Schmidt that it was a crime you know that they were seen as three guys who

0:08:07led the company and you know the fact that they brought in a CEO didn't really

0:08:12steer the company away from what it was founded to do you know and that those

0:08:18guys were still there and we're obviously heavily influential throughout

0:08:22that whole period where it was the CEO and obviously even more influential now

0:08:27that larry is the CEO but you know so I think you could see Google sort of

0:08:35almost like both sides of the argument that they did well by bringing in a CEO

0:08:39but they also did well by keeping the founders there in a significant

0:08:45leadership positions

0:08:46yeah I agree agree and and Twitter dozen doesn't necessarily have that history it

0:08:52has this kind of weird history where they bring people in

0:08:55there's there's sort of internal contentions and fights about who really

0:09:02should be in charge regardless of who actually holds the CEO spot

0:09:06well there's even conventional Twitter over who the actual founder is you know

0:09:10is it was it Jack Dorsey who or Evan Williams you know and I you know what to

0:09:18name Nick Bilton wrote a whole book you know about the trend it I said all that

0:09:26argument right and i think that this is a good time into that hole you know what

0:09:31do you do

0:09:33who do you bring in to run a company thing like the founder of the technical

0:09:36founder or person knows how to run a business and I think that there's

0:09:39something there's an alignment there because part of buildings book and this

0:09:45is very this is a good thing that he pointed out that it I think more people

0:09:48should understand about the valley is that there's this myth of the sole

0:09:52creator rate of the the mythical creator and that's not unique to the valley at

0:09:58think that a lot of companies have had this history especially in America where

0:10:01we've kind of value is sort of like entrepreneurial spirit and I found I

0:10:06made this thing with my hands and so you get this creed or meth spun up where the

0:10:13story becomes less and less complex overtime until eventually it's this guy

0:10:17made this thing but in reality if you drill down to the roots of the thing

0:10:22it's these twelve people made this thing in varying ways this person was an

0:10:27influencer this person said no to the very thing that that would have made it

0:10:32great and you know whatever right you can you can burrow down to all the

0:10:36little teeny decisions are made in the origin but it's very very rare to

0:10:40actually have a sole creator

0:10:44pan out if you brought down to the origins of most of these companies

0:10:48think Twitter is one of those things where you had people it was such a

0:10:52nebulous start because it was side project of another company which was

0:10:57itself kind of flailing and deciding what it wanted to do and all this stuff

0:11:02and then you had on top of that you have egos and you have people who are

0:11:06obviously incredibly talented but also eloquent and you know have a passion for

0:11:12it and it wasn't just day who made it so who gets the equity it was who made it

0:11:17so who gets to only create you know I think that's almost as important as any

0:11:21other currency in Silicon Valley because it funds future ventures and your

0:11:26ability to get funding for future companies and that sort of thing so I

0:11:29think that Jack kind of came out the winner there for a time although people

0:11:33have acknowledged you know as efforts more and more as time goes on and of

0:11:37course there are plenty of people I mean people forget you know just always been

0:11:41there 10 years yeah you know it's just a guy who kind of came out of nowhere and

0:11:47I think that there is a big difference between every key cut short shrift a lot

0:11:51and he was kinda handed a bag of bones and asked to do things that weren't

0:11:56necessarily possible I am NOT claiming insider knowledge on any of this it just

0:12:01you know observation and discussion and all this stuff over time it seems like

0:12:06you know nobody ever told me was a jerk or so does know what he's doing

0:12:13I never ever heard that in the history of reporting on Twitter and it was you

0:12:17know over the product is all over the place in the kent said what to do in

0:12:21this and that the other thing which is that you know things it could be a

0:12:25reason for that

0:12:26yeah I always come back to I just really think that there's history in its

0:12:34natural I don't even know how to be avoided but it with investors want some

0:12:40company has unbelievable success I mean just you know like if you got in you

0:12:47know boom that you've stock explodes and you make tons of money

0:12:53and the company starts making enormous profits and it's you know who rise all

0:12:59around that investors see want to look for somebody else and say you should do

0:13:03what they did and I always do know Apple's company that I you know

0:13:07intimately familiar with and that to me was twenty years ago this whole argument

0:13:13of you gotta stop you gotta get out of the hardware game your software

0:13:17companies to license your OS which was more or less you should just do it

0:13:22microsoft does because Microsoft was extraordinarily successful at that time

0:13:28right and it was too late at buy at a certain point from an investor's

0:13:32standpoint it was too late to make lots of money on Microsoft has it already

0:13:35gotten huge so why not you know get into a ball and have Apple do it they did

0:13:40even though that doesn't make any sense it would not make any sense for you know

0:13:45doing what these people were saying would actually lead to the result of

0:13:49Apple having become a Microsoft style success and in fact when they dip their

0:13:56toes in it it was a disaster with the cloning and stuff like that it made a

0:14:02bad situation worse there's nothing to do and to me that anyway where I'm going

0:14:08with that is to me

0:14:10twitter is Apple and Facebook as Microsoft and that argument oh right

0:14:14yeah I definitely think you're right there and I think there's plenty of

0:14:17people that are looking at in both companies have made faints towards

0:14:22duplicating and/or cloning certain features of each other and for the most

0:14:27part those don't pan out well because the line you know what the company that

0:14:31the core of what the company is it takes to this you can you can put up there's a

0:14:36stillbirth cartoon that gives me a little bit of a cough but it did I found

0:14:44tweeted in my feed it was so so germane to this it's from 2012 but the first

0:14:51first panel it's the boss yet dilbert and the dog and the boss right in the

0:14:56dog is the consultant the boss says I had a management consultant to teach us

0:15:00something he calls backwards causation and silver sitting there looking at him

0:15:04a second panel the dog is the consultant always says I studied the most

0:15:08successful companies if you imitate them you'll feel as if you have a strategy in

0:15:14his number one sponsored golf tournament so you see you can meet celebrities

0:15:17profits a week in that lake

0:15:22yeah it's it's a stephane aside but it really is so true

0:15:26you get a lot of these things where people go this was successful so you

0:15:30should imitate this and they don't ask you know why was it successful or why

0:15:36was it successful in that particular area that's a big thing it's a big comic

0:15:41the third cut the third panel is obviously the joke and it is kind of

0:15:44funny but it's the second panel that sets up the joke that's actually sort of

0:15:48the insight into the bad strategy of a lot of companies right cuz it's true

0:15:55that's it's the it's funny because it's true if you imitate them you'll feel as

0:15:59if you have a strategy right it's much easier than doing the hard thinking

0:16:04about what the sole of your company is and how to expand that you know goal

0:16:09without giving up that soul that that's a much much more difficult conversation

0:16:14to have then you don't just this is really cool when we test that out a be

0:16:18tested see if it works and if it works great if it doesn't we'll just try

0:16:22something some of the company to this that this to me is the bad him that Dick

0:16:26Costolo was dealt when he took over was that he was coming into a world where

0:16:31Facebook was heading towards a an IPO their IPO was successful they didn't

0:16:41have done a tremendous job this is Facebook tremendous job pivoting to go

0:16:45from being a web company to a mobile company including not just at the usage

0:16:51including making money there I think they're almost certain I just read that

0:16:57they now make more money on mobile than they do from desktop I believe so yes

0:17:03huge amount and there around like overnight in the night if if they

0:17:11haven't quite passed it yet the trend lines are clear that did it either just

0:17:14happened early in the last quarter

0:17:16roared going down the trend trend line is absolutely to set that they're going

0:17:20to make more money on mobile which is exactly makes sense because people are

0:17:25using mobile more so it makes it so that they've done great and they have this

0:17:30unbelievable sized users you know they've got I don't know over a billion

0:17:35active users around the world and it's growing 65% by the way

0:17:3965% or 66 percent of their total revenue from mobile right so it has a year and

0:17:46only and it's it's gonna keep going I think I think it's going to go up to 70

0:17:5175 80 you know unbelievable user base lots of profit it's not even you know

0:17:58like oh you know hopefully you know they've got all the users and they've

0:18:02got all the revenue eventually they'll make a profit know they've already got

0:18:04the Prophet it's a great business and Twitter came of age in the shadow of

0:18:09Facebook and you know everybody made out with Facebook and Twitter is sort of

0:18:14like facebook in a general sense to social network right it's you know that

0:18:20one could argue that it's actually a different thing oh I think eww could but

0:18:25it also falls in that bucket you know it's certainly more similar than you

0:18:30know you could say it's apples to oranges but it's it's not like comparing

0:18:34apples to you know a paintbrush

0:18:37it's clearly you know they're in the same section of the grocery store and

0:18:43you know and so therefore it was your Twitter should be as successful measured

0:18:50in those ways you know stock price revenue profits users active users as

0:18:55Facebook and I and i think the fundamental truth is that Facebook the

0:19:00nature of Facebook is more compelling to more people just regular people on

0:19:05Twitter I think Twitter is a phenomenal idea i i honestly to me it has changed

0:19:10my life I I honestly cannot can't even imagine I i it's hard for me to remember

0:19:16you know what it was like before Twitter and to me it's always very funny to

0:19:20think about it because it it

0:19:21Twitter and the iPhone more or less came out around the same time

0:19:25I got signed up for Twitter in late 2006 and really kind of you know dug into it

0:19:30throughout 2007 which was the year the iPhone came out and so it's you know my

0:19:35life pre 2007 I remember it but it seems a log of it for sure it seems

0:19:41unimaginable though I'd really does even just how I did during fireball seems

0:19:46very strange to me because an enormous part of writing during fireball to me is

0:19:52what I do on my iPhone and a lot of what I do my iPhone as Twitter in terms of

0:19:56just finding links and getting feedback and and stuff like that I think it's a

0:20:02tremendous product I just don't think I think fundamentally though it's not as

0:20:05compelling to the mass market as Facebook and yet the demand was there

0:20:11from investors for it to be and they've twisted and contorted it to sort of make

0:20:19it as Facebook as they can while still being true to what Twitter is and it to

0:20:23me it's just they've just perverted what what Twitter should be yeah I mean I

0:20:29think this is a couple ways to look at that I i understand that argument and I

0:20:35agree with it for the most part but I think that their ways to to look at

0:20:39Twitter as a product that it actually allows you to serve both of those

0:20:43concepts serve the Twitter concept which is sort of a real-time pillar of the

0:20:48internet you don't you don't you don't delete her from the internet

0:20:51well if Twitter today if like ever the company disappeared just some massive

0:20:56boldly it turns out there was a Ponzi scheme and everybody in it is broke and

0:21:00there's no money anywhere and whatever right and every shares worth $0.01 and

0:21:04and everybody cashes out and whatever you know the buildings empty tomorrow

0:21:10something else would fill that void right it is something we did not

0:21:14understand we needed out of the Internet until it existed and now that we know

0:21:19that it exists it's impossible to deal with them so it's it's sort of one of

0:21:24those you know sort of his cat things right I keep eating never saw her in the

0:21:30box which you care that she didn't have her maybe maybe not

0:21:35probably not right but now that you know it exists

0:21:38lists there's absolutely no way that the internet exists without that because

0:21:43this it's a it's a fundamental underpinning of the way the internet

0:21:46works now not necessarily that every user of internet users it obviously not

0:21:51because it's hoped he wouldn't have the problems that they're having but that

0:21:55real-time feed influences the core internet users that drive the experience

0:22:02for so many other people like news gatherers and newsmakers and people that

0:22:06understand the way the internet works and the way that the world works in ways

0:22:11that they need to broadcast or feel that they want to broadcast I mean if you

0:22:15look at like two black labs matter movement and like dear David castan in

0:22:18like these and these folks that are that are on the ground in these various

0:22:23cities and and Windows body cambodia's come out and make it they get splashed

0:22:30all over Twitter and get shared and then shared out to news sites I mean those

0:22:34movements would lack a mi not that they wouldn't exist you know human beings are

0:22:39resilient but it would definitely not happy amplification that they do and you

0:22:45know that enables it right it right it is a tremendous news service it's

0:22:49different like what Twitter does that unique is just different and unique and

0:22:53it just measures differently than Facebook and it might end up being and I

0:22:57thought I I honestly think this is true it might end up being less profitable

0:23:01than Facebook but that doesn't mean this is this is when I'm getting it it

0:23:05doesn't mean that Twitter isn't popular and can't be profitable just not

0:23:09profitable up to expect unreasonable expectations that have been set yet

0:23:15decided that for sure I don't think that they're ever going to reach Facebook

0:23:18scale or if they do it'll be in a in a way we don't even see ya there was I

0:23:27just brought it up and it's covered by a get Adobe Flash Player thing here

0:23:34which we can get too soon anyway it was a thing from last december where

0:23:38Williams was asked on stage about Instagram having more active users

0:23:43Twitter and he said I don't give a shit if instagram has more users and then

0:23:48went on to note that obviously was got the headlines but yeah there was some

0:23:55contact the scene there but overall I think the sentiment is kind of accuracy

0:23:59that's what they need to feel here I'll quote unquote Evan Williams it's not too

0:24:03long

0:24:04here's what he said it's a question of Brett versus depth why is users the only

0:24:09thing we talked about the crazy thing Facebook has done an amazing job of

0:24:13establishing that as the Metric for Wall Street no one ever talks about what is a

0:24:18monthly active user I believe it's the case that if you use Facebook Connect if

0:24:23you use an app that you logged into with your considered a Facebook user whether

0:24:27or not you ever launched the Facebook app or went to facebook.com so what does

0:24:32that mean it's become so abstract to be meaningless something you did cause some

0:24:36data in their servers to be recorded for the month so I think we're on the wrong

0:24:40path if you think and I think what you mean by that is where we as an industry

0:24:44on the wrong path about measuring monthly active users is this

0:24:48back to Evan waves quote if you think about the impact twitter has on the

0:24:52world vs Instagram it's pretty significant it's at least apples to

0:24:56oranges twitter is what we wanted it to be its this real-time information

0:25:00network for everything in the world that happens on Twitter important stuff

0:25:03brakes on Twitter and world leaders have conversations on Twitter if that's

0:25:08happening I frankly don't give a shit if instagram has more people looking at

0:25:11pretty pictures and quote and that to me is a very compelling argument and I hope

0:25:17that that you know the fact that Evan Williams is still on the board and has

0:25:22some influence that it's you know my big fear about Twitter is that they're going

0:25:26to bring in somebody who is going to destroy what Twitter is good for in a

0:25:31vain attempt to emulate Facebook right

0:25:36yeah I mean I think that there is a solution and I'm know you know I'm just

0:25:41a dude who writes about things right this is easy for me to say and hard for

0:25:45anybody else to do but I think that there is a solution that solution is to

0:25:49treat login Twitter and logged out to others to separate products that they

0:25:52did they are starting to do that a little bit they've launched some things

0:25:57that are fainting at that but I also feel that they haven't had a unified

0:26:01product strategy that they've been able to stick to you for longer than a couple

0:26:04of quarters in in quite some time so it's going to take a while to see if

0:26:08this pans out and whoever they bring in for leadership is going to need to feel

0:26:11the same way it's like bringing in a new library right and then you librarians

0:26:15going to feel the same way about the way the catalog works otherwise we're gonna

0:26:18end up with a mess again but logged in Twitter is a place for creators it's a

0:26:25place for people that make and do and see and speak and logged out Twitter is

0:26:31for consumers it's for its a place for people like to consume and see the

0:26:37things that people make and take in the things that people say and hopefully

0:26:42grow smarter or chrome or latent or just be entertained whatever you know it's

0:26:48it's Greek laying down to distract against Meek Mill and tweeting it out or

0:26:53whether it's the RND land that's breaking in either one you know there's

0:26:58bliss bliss in either one and that I think that ability to treat them as

0:27:04different things different entities and hold those two ideas in their hand at

0:27:08the same time and services to audiences gonna be key to whether or not they make

0:27:12it a success at scale at a large large scale do you do but I'm getting a lot of

0:27:20people who listen don't but do you follow magic racks yeah so magic recs

0:27:26for anybody who doesn't now it's the account is actually broke the story

0:27:30about it existing there you go

0:27:33graduate alright then you probably do know that yeah so magic wrecks are the

0:27:39new tell me what magic Rex's the user count as a maid GIC capital R

0:27:44ECS like as in wrecks like recommendations are you

0:27:48break so magic Rex was the long story short metric ass was an experiment done

0:27:53by the experimental division its waters Canada handful of people that do you

0:27:57know some of them adolescence and I think it still exists but they do

0:28:00experiments with Twitter data and some of that existed to sort of surface good

0:28:05content like a how would we tell somebody if there's somebody worth

0:28:09following

0:28:10and you know you could say oh this person just get a bunch of followers but

0:28:14that doesn't tell the whole story you know they need to be important to you

0:28:17personally why else would you want to follow them so they came up with this

0:28:21idea to create a Twitter account at first as an experiment that Twitter

0:28:28account with then funnel in the context of your followers who you followed and

0:28:35it says oh if John Salley and Jane your network followed this person you might

0:28:40want to follow them too so it sends you would be in and it says hey John selling

0:28:44in Jane just followed this person along with nine other people so you might want

0:28:49to follow them and you can follow them you can click on the account I often go

0:28:52in there and like who you know why did they follow us for something like oh

0:28:55they just got hired by this publication right that makes sense and then they

0:29:00also ran sort of running an experiment in the same manner on tweets so somebody

0:29:05tweeted something that was favored by a bunch of people in your network people

0:29:09you follow or people you interact with regularly it would then surface that

0:29:13would you say look seven people you know

0:29:16favorited this Tweet probably something you want to look at so that was the

0:29:20genesis of the experiment I find it to be extraordinarily successful so I you

0:29:28follow I get DM's from the magic Rex account and I'm just checking right here

0:29:32looks like I got ten in the last month so I it certainly doesn't bad to me but

0:29:38raised in the last month I've gotten one every three days and they're all good

0:29:43it's a bunch of them this month have been about favorited tweets and most of

0:29:50them you know it sometimes the ones that I've actually seen or it's about a thing

0:29:55that I know about but most of the morning and they were all worth looking

0:29:59at

0:30:00at Lake remarkably useful for some kind of AI bots in terms of that and like you

0:30:07said there's a bunch that are like somebody some new account is just

0:30:10followed by you know somebody and it's also remarkable to me how quickly some

0:30:15of them all right I actually worn my writers if we hire somebody not to

0:30:21follow them immediately so that I can announce that writer because if writer's

0:30:26follow them all journalism is uniquely navel gazing and insular industry so all

0:30:34journalists follow each other and we all talk to each other and that sometimes

0:30:37distorts what we think is important but that's a whole nother story but if they

0:30:42all follow this writer all at once BAM then they it pops a magic wreck on all

0:30:48my competitors and they'll know that I heard them before I'm ready to announce

0:30:51the magic here's one for the at edge TV account and that's a new like sort of I

0:31:00actually haven't looked at it yet but it's from the onion video but I think

0:31:04it's hilarious actually fake parity vice sort of yeah it's like you know hipster

0:31:14type independent journalists on you know around the world

0:31:20dangerous situations but it's a parody but I got a couple days ago I gotta

0:31:25edged at edge TV was just followed by Josh centers 11 seconds ago and at Matt

0:31:31and Jessica Isner

0:31:3411 seconds after Josh centers followed them the magic tricks account sent me a

0:31:39diem and said hey this you know Josh attention to this account right this guy

0:31:44from you know the guy who's the editor at tidbits now and mat Honan and 2003

0:31:51media people I follow all followed it you might want to know and I did I

0:31:55thought it was it was worth the thing that I'm giving out though is that the

0:32:00data that makes magic Rex work thinking and that whatever information they have

0:32:05if they could show me ads at about the same pace show me 10 of a month but have

0:32:12them be as

0:32:13arresting to me as as these are that's gold that is absolute positive gold like

0:32:19they they're obviously finding things that I think are interesting and i think

0:32:23that I think that their potential is clearly there that they could sell me

0:32:28things that I would be interested in

0:32:30well you know that adds that the thing about Twitter ads is that they're

0:32:33actually really good already late lot of people don't know this because the

0:32:38company itself is aligned on the whole because of its lack of user growth

0:32:42although you know as we are your detached on those metrics can be argued

0:32:47against rate strongly you know daily active users a month yet but they're

0:32:53maligned because those metrics have been established and they are what they are

0:32:56but their ads and monetization departments actually outperform the

0:33:03company significantly outperform very loosely there but they perform an

0:33:08outsized manner considering how many users they have and so if they actually

0:33:12were able to solve these are growth problem or find a different way to count

0:33:16those users people who viewed embedded tweets for instance included in monthly

0:33:19active users that sort of thing if they were able to fix that for the market I

0:33:23think it out it would actually go insane because the Twitter ads department which

0:33:29is the revenue department just led by Adam Bain whose by the way one of the

0:33:32front-runners for CEO news is actually really really well performing and that

0:33:38the ads there are served up it with intelligence however I agree with you

0:33:44that they could be much much better if I got an ad that I know was personalized

0:33:49like magic Rex I feel it would be even more effective but you know I'm no party

0:33:54in that department I agree with you though that could be a good concept the

0:33:58potential is clearly there yeah I mean you magic Rex actually just briefly

0:34:02magic tricks was actually integrated into the main Twitter product like it

0:34:06was absorbed into the main product as of late 2013 I think sometime into the if

0:34:12you don't have better if you've never heard of the account but you've gotten a

0:34:16notification that says Asian you know this person was just followed or you

0:34:20know you should look at this to eat that's built off of that magic Rex

0:34:24experiment they sort of folded event

0:34:26but I of course still follow the account and I get the diem directly actually

0:34:30like it that way better than a notification tip of the tip of the day

0:34:34for those of you haven't tried it especially I would I think it's like I'm

0:34:38getting a lot of people listen to show early me and don't really don't really

0:34:42even know what the main Twitter experiences like because we all used to

0:34:45repot right or Twitter affect you know i i nothing like that would surface for me

0:34:52if I weren't following the magic tricks account right exactly platform agnostic

0:34:57which is winters at its best but no decision to anyway speaking mad let's

0:35:05thank the first sponsor of the week and it's a long long time friend of the show

0:35:09back sponsoring the show again

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0:37:27thanks to Linda without so here's the other thing about Twitter before we move

0:37:34on from Twitter so the problem that I did the bigger problem I see with

0:37:38Twitter or the immediate problem I see with Twitter is that their stock is in

0:37:41freefall now maybe free falls a little dramatic but it's significantly down its

0:37:49down below I think it's still haven't checked since the last time I looked but

0:37:53it's now it's down below the IPO level which is dangerous dangerous meaning

0:38:01that they are obviously the lower stock drops the more likely it is that

0:38:07somebody is going to buy them

0:38:09it opened at 41 and it's currently at 27 right and I think so I think it's a

0:38:14market cap of around nineteen billion some 17.89 according to just four eyes

0:38:19so then add a little premium because you've got a premium so you could

0:38:24somebody could probably acquire Twitter you know call it a hostile takeover for

0:38:28around 20 billion and it might that mean you know if this if the trend continues

0:38:34that number gets lower and lower and that's eventually it's going to reach a

0:38:37point where that's going to happen right at its inevitable if the stock keeps

0:38:42dropping

0:38:42that somebody is going to buy them and I i asked on Twitter the other day who and

0:38:49the companies that popped to mind for me immediately Facebook Google Microsoft

0:38:53somebody else had a good one that I didn't think of Apple obviously could

0:39:00because they had the money I don't think Apple would so I would drop out from the

0:39:04discussion immediately i dont the Apple would see any interest in on Twitter no

0:39:09I don't think so just doesn't want to just doesn't make sense

0:39:12break other than I had before and never made sense to me

0:39:20one thought is that maybe this would be a good thing because if if somebody

0:39:24bought Twitter and left them alone and let them be Twitter than all of these

0:39:29pressures that are unreasonable are gone on the other hand a lot of times

0:39:36companies by smaller companies and rank them more often than not they do it is

0:39:44when it doesn't happen like with vying for instance like Twitter but fine wines

0:39:48actually doing really well and i think is a super super cold and it's much

0:39:52different than when they bought it but still very need they didn't react but

0:39:55when that happens or all surprised and elated race I think the average company

0:40:01targets acquired is gonna get matched up in some way to fit the revenue and and

0:40:06I'll look at the parent company from it

0:40:10yeah and Vine is interesting I don't really use fine I should say I don't

0:40:14obviously know what it is but it it was news to me that that there are maybe

0:40:21there's not as many but in a way that there are professional youtubers there

0:40:27are professional find people you know people who were doing you know who's

0:40:32buying accounts do have enough followers and it can charge enough for sponsored

0:40:37posts you know it

0:40:41I know it sounds like lingo but it's you know it's not a bad term native content

0:40:46and other words you have a lot of fun followers and a sponsor page you to do

0:40:52it six second fine for the you know featuring their product and you know it

0:40:58if you're good you know you and your

0:41:00you have all these followers because your visor funny you make a funny line

0:41:04featuring coca-cola and everybody's happy right you're you're you know it's

0:41:09it's that win-win-win virtuous cycle of you know I know native content again it

0:41:14sounds like some kind of weird business development term but when it works it's

0:41:18really great because the video is just as funny as your other stuff you you can

0:41:22acknowledge that you put it in a you know a hashtag on the comment that this

0:41:25was sponsored so there's no you know you're not trying to hide it but your

0:41:30followers are happy because it's another funny video and the sponsors happy

0:41:33because you know you know two million people who follow you are 500,000 people

0:41:38or whatever had their product in front of them right right absolutely and I

0:41:43think that's that's the way that most voters are making any money if they are

0:41:47currently Twitter actually bought a company called niche which it uses to

0:41:52sort of peres miners with brands for advertisement that it basically be

0:41:56created on buying posted online and then it gets used in an ad on Twitter vine

0:42:01has very little to do with that they actually are not involved in monetizing

0:42:04any binders stuff at all they basically make the tools and diviners do the rest

0:42:10at least that's what the current the way currently works but twitter is

0:42:13definitely using some of that to their advantage there saying hey look we've

0:42:17got this ad said and we've got a buying right like you can make a buying and

0:42:22tweet that out promote that and then people will watch it there to watch it

0:42:26on buying and you'll get the natural uplift of those you know millions of

0:42:30followers of that particular viner and some of these fighters are bona fide

0:42:35celebrities I mean talking screaming teenage girls thousands in a conference

0:42:40waiting to see them celebrities is or not by any means like flash in the pan

0:42:45weird little pigeonhole celebrities these are genuine as what we would think

0:42:50of a movie star

0:42:52in like the you know they had a llamar movie star fashion this is the modern

0:42:57equivalent you know Brad Pitt is not Brad Pitt to twelve to fifteen year olds

0:43:02you know these designers are that's the Brad Pitt that's their their their idol

0:43:07today in the the great news is they're way more accessible than Brad Pitt was

0:43:11so they can generate much more buzz and theoretically earn a living at it and

0:43:16and keep going down that path towards whatever their final goal is a celebrity

0:43:21have a link I will put it in the shona I've actually meant to post this daring

0:43:27fireball that I didn't finish the article and this is a good reminder to

0:43:33me to finish it after we do this but it's fascinating it's July 31 so it's

0:43:39just like a week old article from Vanity Fair by Richard Lawson and he went to

0:43:47VidCon the IDC oh and in Anaheim which is like we're all of these YouTube

0:43:56Sandvine celebrities 200 of them are two hundred of them are considered

0:44:01millionaires that they're making over a million dollars a year I guess is what

0:44:05their definition of millionaires but anyway lot of money

0:44:08serious celebrity and this is where their fans got to meet them and it's the

0:44:13picture is just you know it looks like the modern-day equivalent of you know

0:44:18like when the Beatles came to America sixties no I mean it's no no yes I day I

0:44:24it's not just it's not just thousands of teenagers its thousands of teenagers in

0:44:29ecstasy

0:44:30you know they are you going to put it is so fun is the modern world and of course

0:44:38they're all have iPhones everything it's rare to find a reader actually the

0:44:46doesn't use the camera quality know about the sense but you know the fact

0:44:52that this is where celebrities are today it's you know and and the advertisers

0:44:56are smart they're not going they're they're not behind people like me who

0:45:00you know

0:45:01rocketing towards old age are are old but the marketers are smart and more or

0:45:06less so that's why you know a company like cocaine you think wow wow that's

0:45:09pretty interesting that it established you know the you know coke is arguably

0:45:13like the establishment of the marketing and advertising world that they're

0:45:17already doing this well of course they are because like that you know they know

0:45:21that if you want to reach teenagers and of course coca-cola wants to reach

0:45:26teenagers if they don't they're they're screwed what you don't do that on you

0:45:31don't do that on TV and it's you know and that TV as the main place for like

0:45:37an advertiser like Coke to reach teenagers spans generations plural I

0:45:43mean like by the time you and i were born that was already the case it was

0:45:47already the case you know Don Draper dreamed up the like to sing the world of

0:45:53coke before I was born right that's where I was born where where TV was the

0:45:58primary thing for that so it's very very easy when when something like TV has

0:46:03been established as d medium to reach teenagers for you know entire lifetimes

0:46:09of the people in the industry right now is very easy to to let that sort of

0:46:14subtle in like summit but it's not i mean like my son my eleven-year-old son

0:46:19he doesn't he hardly watches any broadcast TV at all and on his own he

0:46:24watches not it's only like one where as a family and we decide to watch

0:46:28something that he is exposed to and I honestly I I don't think he understands

0:46:33the concept of a channel I really don't because it's even when we do I to

0:46:37broadcast TV it's all through the TiVo like I i've talked about I did I don't

0:46:42think he really understand the idea

0:46:44when you get cable TV you have you know here's your 80 channels to choose from

0:46:49and you know and you have to watch what you what you're watching when they put

0:46:54it on the big things like the lack of on demand that the concept of my daughters

0:46:59could have no concept at all is even when we let her watch stuff on her iPad

0:47:04League easily meet with their if she wants to watch something will let her

0:47:08watch a movie and if she's watching a movie that movie I found it very

0:47:13interesting movie freak but that movie is the temporal aspects of it are

0:47:18permeable to her in other words she just watches the bits that she wants to watch

0:47:23sometimes you watch it all the way through if we put it on the TV series

0:47:27like the Apple TV to put it on the TV show watch it beginning to end and

0:47:30shield she loves movies which I'm very happy about she's been asked me to watch

0:47:34Batman which I'm putting myself on the back about the TV Batman not some

0:47:38cartoon and she's three I probably shouldn't but let's just leave that

0:47:42parenting discussion but he that linearity of the movie she just jumps

0:47:51back and forth Rachel watch the bits that she wants to watch it there

0:47:54something scary should skip it if there's something that funny bit that

0:47:58she wants to watch again she just drag your finger across the slider and she

0:48:01comes back so it's it's not only the lack of channels on demand nature but

0:48:06also the linearity of it you know where we are we were used to watching

0:48:10something that lasted an hour and we were happy about it at BHS rewind and

0:48:15watch it again or whatever but that is gone gone gone and find as a part of

0:48:20that because it's six seconds and you build your own TV channel by following

0:48:24the people that you want and by by telling it what you like and letting it

0:48:28build a channel for you things like that and then that's your TV watching vying

0:48:33for 10 minutes right and you can get you watch somebody's creations watch a bunch

0:48:38of these creations tied together and that's a quote unquote program that

0:48:43that's been built for you out of your tastes and so when it comes time to tell

0:48:47them oh no you're supposed to let somebody else determine what you want

0:48:51were supposed to watch it supposed to like and you're supposed to let them do

0:48:53that for hours on end I just think that's going to be an incredibly tough

0:48:56concept

0:48:57I'm yeah so tons of money enormous celebrity and it's all happening on

0:49:03YouTube by and I thought is very very interesting i mean clearly I don't think

0:49:08mine is as big as YouTube you know in any sense even in like the literal sense

0:49:13of how long the videos can be but it's the way that violent featured so

0:49:19prominently in in this story of these VidCon celebrities in the fan to follow

0:49:24them really opened my eyes to the fact that Twitter has a real gem by owning

0:49:29them whether they figure out a way to make money from buying or not it just

0:49:34reemphasize is my circling back to these hey if their stock keeps circling down

0:49:39somebody's gonna buy them because somebody is gonna see that this is a

0:49:43tremendous thing down right and and and will they then will they then keep the

0:49:50reasons why it is tremendous and and sort of improve it or will they screwed

0:49:54up I mean look at you know Facebook and Instagram there's one where I love

0:50:00Instagram really do Instagram is one of the few social things that I use really

0:50:04like it and when Facebook bought them my heart sunk as I thought this is why i

0:50:09guess i dont evn I don't use Facebook I really don't see the appeal of it I

0:50:13don't like you know I don't like lots of things about it they're gonna record and

0:50:18if I didn't know that Facebook bought Instagram I as of today

0:50:22years down the road I have no it would have no idea they don't foresee any kind

0:50:27of Facebook sign in its everyday everything every way that the that the

0:50:33app in the platform have evolved since then have been all to me just purely

0:50:38Instagram me you know to make up an adjective it all feels true to what it

0:50:44wanted to be right so I am a big fan of its too and I think a lot of it comes

0:50:49from the fact that that Mark Zuckerberg did leave Kevin system in charge and he

0:50:56gave him you know sort of the ability to execute on the plans that he had already

0:51:00had with minimal fuss and I think they kevin's actually a pretty good thinker

0:51:04you know

0:51:05in terms of the stuff he cares if it's not it's not a situation where he's

0:51:09trying to maximize the Hisar away from the user's at every turn instead it's

0:51:14you know what's right and there's there are people that are able to do that but

0:51:19there's very few people who are able to do that in the face of billions of

0:51:22dollars worth of you know money and revenue and everything else right so

0:51:27he's part of Facebook now but still has managed to carve out a very unique spot

0:51:31for Instagram and keep it keep it good which is a great thing why the hell do

0:51:37you think they don't have a native iPad up focus i mean i think is about focused

0:51:43I think that they obviously they have all the engineering resources they could

0:51:46ever won right so they could hire 50 engineers today to build a great need of

0:51:51iPad up and it would display our Instagram photos and everything so it's

0:51:55not that they don't have the resources I think it's a matter of focus in terms of

0:51:58the Instagram works for a variety of reasons but one of the major reasons it

0:52:04works is actually because of the way it's basically structured await the way

0:52:09the feed works you scroll one picture that time you look at one thing at a

0:52:12time its goals by and I mean I'd used as I'm sure you haven't used a half dozen

0:52:17different iPad apps to browse Instagram and that's fine but the it does not bear

0:52:26any anywhere near as compelling you're sort of presented with a bunch of

0:52:30pictures that feel less valuable in a grid right whereas when you're scrolling

0:52:35down your Instagram p each one feels like it has merit and value and you know

0:52:40it sure you go by quickly cuz you're not interested but the ones you are

0:52:44interested they they take up your whole screen they feel very front and center

0:52:47so will they do it probably but I can understand the reluctance you know I the

0:52:54way I would imagine doing it and I know that in general for most apps take your

0:53:00iPhone design and just blow it up to fit iPad screen is not a good design for an

0:53:06iPad

0:53:07I think Instagram is a rare case where it might be you know and and make it so

0:53:13that you know i i maybe even just like the phone make it so that it's it

0:53:18doesn't rotate make it so that you have to hold the iPad vertically and you just

0:53:22scroll down and they fit in that way it just makes the photos bigger that's

0:53:26right I wonder and I have no idea but I went on the other hand they just may be

0:53:30the IRA's photos right I wonder if such crappy res for so long has stopped them

0:53:37and now they're up in preparation

0:53:39I thought that too maybe maybe it's just because you know that the resolution

0:53:43wasn't yet big enough to have to get ahead and they did that recently they've

0:53:46increased the size what is the new size is it like a good question I think it's

0:53:51a 10 20:48 bat 2488 something like that

0:53:54pretty big at least compared to where they were and it certainly big enough to

0:53:58make a fine JPEG that would actually be pixel for pixel on an iPad yeah which

0:54:07maybe maybe not be my only other thought is maybe they've tried it and it just

0:54:13doesn't feel right and I'm imagining that it would feel just great but that

0:54:17it doesn't so maybe I don't know but at this point I mean if they hadn't tried

0:54:22it I would be so whether or not obviously tried it so sorry but yes

0:54:31there is going you know companies staying inside of the company's think

0:54:36that's a good example but as to what company's culture works for that you

0:54:42know it's very few I mean you could visibly see Facebook buying them and

0:54:47leaving them alone

0:54:48rate like that they have proven obviously that they have the ability to

0:54:52do that and in not take it as like a matter of pride that they have to fuck

0:54:57with it as I think that sometimes it just comes down to that you think that

0:55:00Silicon Valley super rational all the stuff but you know you go play smart

0:55:04people human so you get those egos in there were like oh no I got my stamp on

0:55:08this thing and

0:55:09and they muck it up so you you could conceivably see Facebook as a company's

0:55:15Rd proven that you know Mark or whoever whatever p.m. is in charge of those

0:55:19products doesn't have that ego driven approach and you can see hey maybe they

0:55:25could buy it leave it alone

0:55:27you know and they certainly have the money just a matter of whether or not if

0:55:30it's with their overall strategy but given that they've got it before the

0:55:36whatsapp I would have probably had a far less inclination to say that they'd buy

0:55:41it but now that they've but what's out by Stephanie actually more possibilities

0:55:45to me the top tits if I had to bet it would be a bidding war between Facebook

0:55:53and Google and Facebook to me it almost seems a little more likely cause maybe

0:55:58Google's a little gun shy now about social I don't know maybe total left

0:56:07they lost all direction on Google+ and I think vic I don't know why but left I'm

0:56:13not going to you know make assumptions that I don't know you know jack about

0:56:17but I do know that they have been planning to do that stuff that they did

0:56:21with Google+ for like a year you know the spinning out of photos in and

0:56:25removing it from a lot of their primary products and stuff like that we reported

0:56:29on that a year ago and people you know obviously got really mad at us and told

0:56:32us relying came out in droves but it was told the doctor what we reported they

0:56:39were planning on doing and it's the right it was the right move because it

0:56:42felt intrusive it wasn't working

0:56:44it wasn't providing them any social uplift on usage of their products and it

0:56:48actually did do what it needed to do which is create a single sign-on service

0:56:54that allows them to get more users using Google products in it specially search

0:56:59while signed in

0:57:00because not only can they provide them a better experience through Google now

0:57:03which is fantastic but they can also of course the more accurate ads and gather

0:57:09more data on them whether you feel great about that or not is up to you but

0:57:12that's the that was the thought process and that worked as far as the social

0:57:18stuff that was like six brainchild so I think when he

0:57:22and whether it was causation correlation I don't know you know what caused what

0:57:27but when he left that stopped you know that was done as of that moment so I

0:57:33don't think that he was still there

0:57:36turned off by it because it should cost them a bunch of money but they have a

0:57:40bunch of money and it's it's worth it was it was worth it I mean if there's no

0:57:44way to calculate it but if I'm sure somebody Google is done the math and

0:57:48said well we got you know eight hundred million more signed in users or whatever

0:57:53over the course of a year or two years and that's totally worth it

0:57:57way upsets the money that we spend I don't know somebody that there's

0:58:00probably done some math but aside from all the math aspect I think that they

0:58:05didn't see that as like their bid to combat Facebook and that's that's where

0:58:11you get in these arguments about people that know they're trying to be Facebook

0:58:14and i'd never ever thought it was about that I don't think anybody was really

0:58:18really smart but it was about them beating Facebook or whatever the case it

0:58:22sort of was about other people owning the social channel and all the data

0:58:26involved right and so they didn't want to be left out of the cold on that but I

0:58:31think that if you look at it that way then you could say oh well they could

0:58:35try again with a different thing like Twitter may be right and you know maybe

0:58:39they get all the data that they need from Twitter without having to actually

0:58:43tell anybody oh you gotta log into Google right and i think that if you go

0:58:48back to Twitter being a real-time component of the web then it becomes

0:58:53much more clear why they might want it

0:58:56vs oh it's their new social initiative instead it's so it's a pillar of the

0:59:01internet and Google searches another pillar so if such as one pillar and

0:59:07real-time is another pillar you don't then they've got into out of whatever

0:59:11however many animal now but there are several things that sort of have to

0:59:17exist for the web to exist and obviously searching indexing is one of them and

0:59:20Google's got that and it's real time as another one they see this as an

0:59:24opportunity grab that that's why I think to buy it now for social necessarily you

0:59:28know

0:59:29no agreed and I you know I think it makes total sense for example and I

0:59:35don't think it was rushed I think it's so polished and it makes so much sense

0:59:38but just the way that they've spawned Google photos into a standalone product

0:59:42it it just makes sense in it it it is good for people who worry you know in

0:59:48the Google ecosystem here you sign up for this thing and you know you install

0:59:53this app maybe if you're on an Android phone you do you happen sorry there and

0:59:59you sign in with your Google account and now all of your photos are in you know

1:00:04in this one thing here's where they all are enter on all your devices and we're

1:00:08gonna do these compelling a I dunno recognition things on the content of the

1:00:14photos and and and that more or less the end of the story right and then you can

1:00:19search for them and you can say you can you know they've got these cool features

1:00:23are you can search for things like you know winter and it will find fractures

1:00:27or is it something you know sounds almost too good to be true and it seems

1:00:32you know a lot of people in it seems to work really well in reality and that's

1:00:38the end of the story with that makes sense to offer you know regular people

1:00:43that just right you know it's a value proposition is clear and just was never

1:00:49the case when the photos were wrapped up in Google+ it always seemed like it was

1:00:54a little bit like facebook in a little bit like a photo library a little bit

1:00:58you know and and a little bit of this and a little bit of that and trying to

1:01:03be more than one thing as opposed to hear Google photos all of your photos

1:01:07it's just like Gmail gmail is to your email here's the thing that's like that

1:01:12to your photo library where it is

1:01:14anyway speaking of photos let me take a break here in thank our our second

1:01:20sponsor and it is our good friends at fracture so we've been talking about

1:01:25digital photos fracture is all about taking photos and making them analog

1:01:30right you take your photos and memories they're trapped somewhere way down in

1:01:35their Instagram feed or they're in your iCloud photo library or Google photos or

1:01:39whatever and all you ever do is see them on your phone or on your tablet or

1:01:43something like that you see them on these screens

1:01:45boy it's really nice to have your photos in a real-world hanging on your wall put

1:01:51them up you know going up the steps put on the shelf in your office desk

1:01:57somewhere where their tangible and analog with your photos that mean the

1:02:02most here what fractured does if you listen to the show regular you heard me

1:02:08talk about it before they take your photos and they print them directly on

1:02:12glass piece of paper stuck to class I don't know they've got some kind of

1:02:16magic process where they take class and that's what the actual images printed on

1:02:22it is a very very compelling physical artifact it is really really great I

1:02:31don't know what to say cuz they keep sponsoring a show here's the thing

1:02:33they've they've written me they keep my turn to show people keep going there

1:02:37following my advice doing this and buying fractures and then they keep

1:02:41buying more like you might think how come every single week I listen to the

1:02:45show

1:02:45fracture is sponsoring the show I worry that it gets repetitive but here's the

1:02:49thing people keep buying these photos and I can't say enough good things I

1:02:54mean it sincerely from the even if they said you know what we love you you you

1:02:58know you've brought so many great customers but you know we're not going

1:03:00to sponsor the show for a lot I would still recommend fracture to anybody who

1:03:04wants to get photos printed you want to get your photos printed it it's it's

1:03:08just great

1:03:09it is so fantastic go there check them out they have sizes that range from

1:03:13little you know I don't like three by three or four by four all the way up to

1:03:18massive like 23 by 27 inch

1:03:21really really big big pieces of glass go to their website is fracture me.com and

1:03:31the code is daring fireball and that's good for 15% off your first order and

1:03:40the prices are already great so you're saving money on what's already agreed to

1:03:44also go to fracture me.com and remember the code during fireball if you haven't

1:03:48yet go print out a couple of your photos from your vacation or whatever you've

1:03:52done this summer I thanks to take photographs taken want it to be a

1:04:04professional attire for what do you think I knew there was a loaded question

1:04:11what are your opinions

1:04:13here's where I'm going with that I'm going to parlay from from the fracture

1:04:17thing to talking about the photos out from that which i'm sort of formulating

1:04:25my opinion on I'm a very slow thinker in general I don't know if you've ever

1:04:29noticed a deliberate let's see let's say you're deliberate and I i four years

1:04:35used Lightroom and I actually still have you know all of those years my my photo

1:04:45library from those years is all in Lightroom but you kind of force myself

1:04:53to give photos a really good try I don't have Lightroom installed on my right now

1:05:03I'm back yet I'm going I'm actually about it at some point this summer I'm

1:05:06going to break down and go back to my room at least just have my library there

1:05:11a Twitter conversation I had with doctor wave

1:05:20from Pixar yea yea michael johnson who is easy music he's a better photographer

1:05:30than I am but similar to me we're we're we're we're not you know we're not pros

1:05:35he's he's you know he does software Pixar but we actually even have the same

1:05:39camera and we have a similar liking for fast prime lenses and you know we just

1:05:47shoot the same way which is the way you get a couple of good photos is if you're

1:05:51going to take a nice camera to shoot lots and lots and lots and lots and lots

1:05:54and lots of photos and then you import them and you find you know you grow up

1:06:00you literally just throw most of them away finding any old days we used to say

1:06:03film is cheap but in the longer plays explains even more now but right and if

1:06:09you watch if you watch what I've talked about this couple weeks ago where it's

1:06:13it's like I really I cannot wait for professional photographers to switch to

1:06:16mirrorless cameras because I find it so annoying at like news event sports or

1:06:22like president of you know president out of state is making a statement or

1:06:28something like that and you hear the professional photographers thats this

1:06:31machine gun like like like like like just shooting you know whatever however

1:06:36fast the cameras can go per second which is getting to be extraordinarily fast

1:06:40you know

1:06:4110 12 shots per second nonstop to get what one photo to a company news story

1:06:48but that's what you do because digital's cheap anyway to me like room has all

1:06:54sorts of features that are meant to support that sort of workflow where you

1:06:58can just go through and just forget the key if its acts or whatever but you

1:07:03don't have a modifier you just keep going higher and you can just mark

1:07:06photos for deletion and it doesn't sound up bracket i think is the default but i

1:07:12dont member with the kind of to look it up but more or less than my workflow and

1:07:18maybe there's other ways to do it is you go import let's say three hundred photos

1:07:22into Lightroom

1:07:23and you just start going through them and you know you find my first cut is

1:07:28just throw out the ones I don't wanna bother with and I just go through with

1:07:32arrow keys to go you know through the photos and one key to just marked for

1:07:36deletion and it doesn't even delete them it just like a special flag like you

1:07:40want to delete the Senate Dems out the photo but that way you're not waiting

1:07:44for the disc to do anything it's just like a little you know one little piece

1:07:48of medidata database and you can go really really fast and Lightroom I was

1:07:54thinking star rating

1:07:56tax rate it makes it as easy Tiger Xing out the photos and it's it's like the

1:08:03real-world version of your big stack of photos and you just start flipping

1:08:07through and you put them into columns keepers and you know here's the trash

1:08:12can you literally used to do that with a context she just X out the ones who

1:08:16didn't want to bother looking at it exactly right that would be the old way

1:08:19would be the contact sheet yet and it's you know if you've ever watched you know

1:08:23are you probably did it since you were shooting film and you were actually a

1:08:26pro like a grease pencil and just literally X amount bottom line for me is

1:08:34the problem with photos is there's no way to do that it's it's photos to me is

1:08:39funded this is the inside I've come to is that fund photos is fundamentally

1:08:43built around a much more consumer minded mindset which is that most of the photos

1:08:49you take you want to keep and you know whether that based on coming from the

1:08:54phone world you know where you don't even know you can do burst mode and you

1:09:00know I'm sorry but if you look at like my daughters iPod she's got a hundred

1:09:08and fifty thousand sophie's on it and I don't think that's ever gonna change in

1:09:12a mean that the selfish thing for sure is something where people take a ton of

1:09:18photos before they find one that they'd like to see my wife do it you know and

1:09:22she's not even a huge silvery takers super into that but every once awhile

1:09:26she likes to send it to a friends like shit makeup on this new thing and she

1:09:31takes a ton and then picks one right but she still takes that ton

1:09:35so yeah I think that it's not just pros I think a lot of people I think if

1:09:41they're thinking is that is people taking one precious photo and being done

1:09:47at the wrong phone shoot so fast but now you know they used to just like Oh

1:09:52getting one out of them was a chore but now it's like bbm pin as you as you

1:09:57mentioned with the person everything yeah and it just doesn't support that I

1:10:01feel like any other thing too as I kind of feel like they should not just should

1:10:06support it because I want to use it but they should support it because I feel

1:10:10like my honest opinion it's a good thing to encourage people to do to take lots

1:10:15of photos to try you know and that that's how you get one or two that are

1:10:19really good don't try to if you want to get like two really good photos from

1:10:23your kid's birthday party don't don't sit there and try to aim up one or two

1:10:28good ones take 60 70 80 pictures and then go look through them on a big

1:10:33screen as you can get and see which ones actually came out good and I feel like

1:10:37the apt just does not support that I am wondering is that there's no way and

1:10:43this is on a new iMac so it is I wouldn't call it slow and I don't have a

1:10:47huge library of 20,000 photos in there so I wouldn't call it slow and you know

1:10:54it imported my old iPhoto library fine but it's it's not that fast and it

1:11:00always seems to do the wrong thing when I delete like actually just have to

1:11:03delete a photo to delete it and just hitting the delete key doesn't work has

1:11:07that brings up a warning dialog you sure you want to delete it safe to come and

1:11:11it isn't too bad its command delete isn't too bad

1:11:15which is immediate you know it's it's not about the delete key is that bring

1:11:22up a dialog every time is that it it doesn't it doesn't wipe it off the desk

1:11:28it moves it to a trash can type then you could get back or you can do I do if you

1:11:34make a mistake

1:11:35but even then it it often goes to the wrong photo it doesn't go to the next

1:11:39photo goes to the one I looked at before and it doesn't seem

1:11:43I could be wrong here but maybe I just wanna go the wrong way maybe I'm always

1:11:48trying to go there and it always want you to go forward in time and i want to

1:11:51go backwards you know from the most recent 2 the least recent I don't know

1:11:54but when you're in that mode and you just wanted fly through hundred pictures

1:12:00it's annoying if you keep having to hit three or four keys and our oh and go

1:12:06back to back to back you know over and over and over again right right yeah I

1:12:11do not think it is built for that kind of anything at all and there's a couple

1:12:16possibilities one possibility could be that we are wrong and that the data

1:12:21supports effective people take a few photos at a time right so it if you look

1:12:27at they're like oh well you know you guys don't know what we know and what we

1:12:31know is that data on millions and millions of users says that these this

1:12:36is the way people shoot and we serviced that with this product and that you guys

1:12:40are the outliers and you need to use like right that's one possibility the

1:12:45second possibility is that there is a disconnect between the team that is

1:12:52building photos and the teams that built the professional photo products in the

1:12:57past so either from what I understand it's not like they took the the aperture

1:13:04team and had been built photos like those people scattered everywhere and

1:13:09and our building other things for better for worse you know so if you're if you

1:13:14took the institution knowledge of the people building you know aperture and

1:13:19brought it in and they they could then tell you a man you know if you're if you

1:13:23want people to use this as a sort of core tool you're going to need to

1:13:27support people blasting through a bunch of pictures and editing them then maybe

1:13:32that would have been built differently but I don't know if that institutional

1:13:34knowledge was there is another possibility

1:13:37well what i've what I heard and I could be wrong

1:13:40well I i'm not wrong I could be wrong just in a matter of degree is that it

1:13:45what what's now called photos from Accra just photos

1:13:49started life internally as I photo acts you know it was definitely not just the

1:13:56next version of iPhoto wasn't just a bump the integer it was you know when

1:14:00they've had these other products get an axe or something like that

1:14:04like with iMovie like with a kind of radically redid the concept of it it was

1:14:10a radical rewrite it was a rewrite but it was a rewrite of iPhoto come you know

1:14:15definite was even by name and it changed after you know from where that what

1:14:19started it did change where they'd strategically said you know that's

1:14:23that's the iPhoto is the wrong way to go what we really want to do is you know

1:14:28have this unified photo platform across iOS and Mac and so we should we should

1:14:34just do you know followed the lead of iOS and just call it photos and the

1:14:38design changed at that point to clearly because it's it's clearly a sibling to

1:14:43the to the iOS Photos app right but I still think though that that shows in

1:14:50its roots you know cause to me that was the problem I mean years ago why I

1:14:53didn't use iPhoto and taught myself to use Lightroom instead was that I photo

1:14:59to me was never ever good for people who shot a lot of you know shot away I shot

1:15:03yeah I lightroom is my boy like I love Lightroom or my girl that but I really

1:15:14really like it needs the easiest best tool that has come along for

1:15:19photographers in generations and you know these days there's lots of

1:15:22arguments about getting stale and all this stuff but I still think it's it got

1:15:26exactly the right things right which is you you need to deal with complex

1:15:31adjustments in a way that allows you granularity of control you know you need

1:15:35to eat be able to blast through into an initial pass and then you need to be

1:15:39able to to kind of diddle downing and drill down into my new testaments even

1:15:43jump out to Photoshop if you really need to and then jump back and I think that

1:15:46that was incredibly smart billed for Adobe and and really really well done by

1:15:52them I just think it hasn't been matched by any other tools including aperture

1:15:55since it came out and I know there's devotees of either side but

1:16:01you know people that loved effort anyway so i think is really really a great tool

1:16:06and I think that's it just may be the case that 80% use cases are never going

1:16:13to be that way and and photos is always going to act and work that way and we

1:16:18just don't have the data to understand that that's what people want but I do

1:16:22agree with you that is just not great for Lee going through a bunch of photos

1:16:26at once I rarely rarely ever use it for anything beyond opening it up finding a

1:16:32photo and sharing like that's the way I treat it like a I'm able to search

1:16:36through photos by you know day tour group events and and share them with

1:16:40family members that sort of thing if I'm going to do any sort of editing open in

1:16:43Lightroom so I'm I haven't done the thought experiment of trying to force

1:16:47myself to use it you know to see if I could it would work of my work clothes I

1:16:52haven't gone down the route you're going but it doesn't it doesn't appeal to me

1:16:56for those reasons and I i dont have used as I can't speak to see they're not I

1:17:02don't want us to get a turn

1:17:03here's a question for you do you import your photos that you should I Drive

1:17:09phone in delight know many me neither

1:17:15with maybe like one or two rare exceptions you know over the course of

1:17:20like six or seven years once or twice maybe there'd be something and maybe I'm

1:17:25wrong and maybe I never did I never ever did that so for four years I had like

1:17:30two completely different photo universes there was my Lightroom library which was

1:17:36the images I shot with my Canon digital SLR and within the last few years my

1:17:43Fuji x100 ass oh and and years earlier years I had the Ricoh GRD

1:17:51Mike an end in my mind those were my real photos and I had my iPhone photo

1:17:58library which was mostly just on my iPhone and then every once in a while I

1:18:03would like to open up just image capture copy all the ones off and put them in a

1:18:09folder in my Dropbox just so you know about a great I just have a cough up

1:18:15literally just have it just goes by year I've got like and I know Dropbox has

1:18:19some kind of feature like that but I did I don't like that feature cause I don't

1:18:22want Dropbox screw around with my other photos all I want is somewhere where

1:18:27everything I've taken with my iPhone is you know somewhere where it's accessible

1:18:31online so I just have like up you know Dropbox I have a iPhone photo library or

1:18:38something I forget what I called it an inside that it's just a one folder for

1:18:42each year and inside that all the photos I took my iPhone from that year that's

1:18:46it right but I really like to think I really do like about photos from Mac and

1:18:52iCloud photo library is I love that I don't have to do that by hand I don't

1:18:57have to like remember hey you know it's been a couple months since I packed up

1:19:01the photos on my phone they just show up and I let you know it is one of the

1:19:07things people say Apple doesn't get services right well for me at least

1:19:10iCloud photo library they got right because I take a screenshot on my phone

1:19:15or if it's there by the time I put my phone down and go to my keyboard and

1:19:21switch to the photos out and I go to that's been really really good and that

1:19:26is really really convenient for things like if I want to send somebody a

1:19:31screenshot of like an app that I'm testing it's great if I'm at my desk and

1:19:37I have my Mac right here and so I can be a lot easier for me to take or maybe I'm

1:19:41already halfway through writing the email on my Mac

1:19:44it's great to just switch to the you know take the screenshot of my phone go

1:19:50to the Photos app and there it is I can get it right out at fantastic so yeah

1:19:56it's going to be a good member how bad I mean it was so bad before they never

1:20:01show up to reset it all the time so they did a good job at this iteration of it

1:20:06yeah I don't know what to do in the long run now I don't know I guess what I may

1:20:14be what I should do but it seems like an awful lot of busy work is that every

1:20:18time I shoot photos that I put into Lightroom do my pics adjust them the way

1:20:24I want and export them all to you know the highest resolution jpeg possible and

1:20:29then import those into the photos out just so that those photos photos

1:20:33supported watched folder I don't think it does and if it did deal with the

1:20:39problem I can maybe I'm not enough maybe I need to you know taking advanced Linda

1:20:44course on Lightroom but I don't think that there's a way but that's because

1:20:47laterooms non-destructive I don't think there's a way that there would be a

1:20:52watched photo a watch things that would pick up my adjustments in less export

1:20:59them yeah I see what you mean so all I have to do is do the exogenous has that

1:21:07watched folder thing yeah I don't know I don't think it does but it would be a

1:21:12good feature they added it anybody else I forget it right down the middle I mean

1:21:16I'm still like everything my family stuff like the stuff that comes off

1:21:22white what my wife and I set it up is that she has her own iCloud account for

1:21:27a lot of stuff we share purchases and I've rigged up so that any photos we

1:21:32take her all imported so we have shared iCloud for that so I see her photos of

1:21:38my photos all-in-one iPhoto library get my mind doesn't have a computer she is a

1:21:42phone and iPad isn't interested should work doesn't use it she doesn't need it

1:21:48so it's not really a priority for her to use my laptop once every couple of

1:21:53months ago

1:21:55shopping sites or something

1:21:57but in general she does all of it from right patent phone and so anything she

1:22:00takes issue to me that is just dumped into my central repository on my Mac and

1:22:04then which is of course then backed up by a time machine and then backed up the

1:22:09Backblaze you know separately but that central repository is our life from the

1:22:15beginning I think that honestly the first photos in my iPhoto library right

1:22:20now I got married in 2004 in the photos in my library to this five oh my God my

1:22:30wife's gonna kill me and i got married before the iPhone 3 iPhone photos if my

1:22:37library from phones and all that jazz and I had some important mostly from

1:22:42everything is our life together

1:22:46imported into that library and once she got an iPhone she started basically

1:22:50getting my hand me that iPhones and and then eventually buying iPhones new ones

1:22:55when she wanted all of those photos are all in that repository and said I view

1:23:02that as a timeline of my life and I know this is the way that this is the value

1:23:07that companies like Facebook and Dropbox see in the auto upload and Google

1:23:10because it's a timeline of your entire life right

1:23:14those photos are just so much data from them and if if Google conference since

1:23:18tell you what's winter than they know your kids growing up they can probably

1:23:23estimated age raped like these are that there's a lot of data in those photos in

1:23:28not to mention the actual metadata which is very easy to read so that aspect of

1:23:34things that timeline I don't like having that one repository for it there in in

1:23:41photos now and I don't like mixing in when I used to shoot a wedding or

1:23:47something like that don't want that in there and I want that in my family

1:23:51library so that goes in iPhoto and if I ever do like you know a formal shoes or

1:23:56if I pick up my SLR which is getting more and more rare to be honest and

1:23:59shoot family photos then I'll will export doesn't import those tonight but

1:24:03it remains a canonical record you know of our lives together in that thing

1:24:09whereas lightroom is more along the lines of like oh I have a rare breed a

1:24:15and I'm gonna go she landscapes or or you know she packed her stuff or

1:24:19whatever

1:24:20many years later for that clearly never gonna touch photos that up with that

1:24:24same year

1:24:26alright enough fun for us to talk about our next sponsor my neck sponsor here is

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1:25:20you get all of this information and it's not just diagnostic information about

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1:26:15cars know when they're in an accident and the diagnostic port has the

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1:27:00turn the thermostat to a new temperature integrate with ifttt if this thing that

1:27:06gives you the power to build all kinds of recipes based on your driving my new

1:27:14levels of details really really cool for tankers just go to automatic dot com

1:27:20slash apps you'll see more I could go on and on and on

1:27:25here's the deal you have here is the code code is the talk show

1:27:30automatic dot com slash the talk show you get the code the code will save you

1:27:3520 percent and that's for anybody listens to the show

1:27:39ships in 2 business days and they have a 45 day return policy

1:27:44here's the thing it's a hundred bucks period you just buy it it's just a thing

1:27:48that you buy it's not a service you subscribe to you don't pay 10 bucks a

1:27:52month so that you can keep using it you buy one of these things 100 bucks but

1:27:57with the code the talk show it's only 80 bucks 80 bucks that's it you own it

1:28:02you're in you're good at for as long as the glass and that's it

1:28:0780 bucks and you get all of this school stuff that happens free all of these

1:28:11things are free it's really really fun so anybody was a car why not buy this

1:28:15thing for 80 bucks you're crazy if you don't go to automatic dot com automatic

1:28:20is spelled the normal way automatic dot com slash the talk show and find out

1:28:23more thanks to them go by this thing is really really cool then and set up some

1:28:28cool if this than that

1:28:29recipes how do you pronounce ifttt I don't know if you say if this then that

1:28:34or do you say ifttt I say EFT

1:28:38I may be wrong it it's one of those things where I I see it I read it with

1:28:45my eyes all the time and I don't really hear it I don't know how you're supposed

1:28:50to say it when they say it like I've talked to those guys you know plenty and

1:28:55they think they say if I like that stuff being a lot

1:29:02find a path to success there in terms of you know how to survive how to make

1:29:06money because I think it's awesome

1:29:09they're they're like the glue between everything on the Internet of Things God

1:29:15that term but if if if is it more and more it's like everything that could

1:29:24integrate with that integrates with it which is really kind of awesome and it's

1:29:29sort of an old to me it's the thing that they have that I really like is that the

1:29:34old school like early internet idea of we're gonna open this stuff up and have

1:29:41API's and truly open anything that can integrate with us you don't have to like

1:29:47work out of business development deal or something like that you know we're not

1:29:51gonna cut you off like you know like with the Twitter API where there's these

1:29:54keys and you can get cut off based on the whims of the day it's all just

1:29:58opened its just there and

1:29:58opened its just there and

1:30:00anyway you can figure out a way to integrate your product with them you can

1:30:03do it which to me is is really cool and we don't see enough of that anymore now

1:30:08I mean they're they're the spiritual successor to Yahoo Pipes which was just

1:30:12sat down this year

1:30:13yeah I love ya pipes to shame that day because it was a very new feature to its

1:30:19a shame that they are not surprised that they got rid of it but it's yeah shock

1:30:23tamale go why you know the stock up on her that it doesn't exist anymore you

1:30:28know what else what else is in the news I saw there is a thing last week where

1:30:34the San Jose Business Journal reported that Apple bought an enormous piece of

1:30:42land I guess it's about as big as the campus that they're building somewhere

1:30:48like undeveloped land outside San Jose I'm sure yet about a big chunk of

1:30:54property and nobody really has any idea what they're going to do with it right i

1:31:00mean that's but that's the thing it's like it is news in it is interesting

1:31:05that they bought an enormous piece of land but then you know they're they're

1:31:10not saying what they're going to do it and so everybody is just left to

1:31:14speculate which is great because this is what we do our professional speculate

1:31:17that exactly it is almost better when you can just speculate when you know

1:31:23that literally only four people even know what they're gonna build on it you

1:31:27know who knows me knows you know like a couple of the people know but that's

1:31:32that's it you know because then you're free to just say hey wonder what they

1:31:36could do you're not actually tied down to going well its report this out

1:31:40because you know somebody knows there's a chain yeah I mean fifteen like fifteen

1:31:45thousand workers or whatever there is what they're estimating I think that

1:31:50they could hold it there is in the RD bada 290,000 square foot building in

1:31:56North sent as a as well and I guess is like the first officer since the

1:32:00eighties so investing and it is interesting to me they're they're buying

1:32:10a plot of land that is

1:32:12car factory sized yeah I miss it interesting

1:32:17just exactly where I I do wonder though I mean it's like if they don't build any

1:32:29of the computer no I guess they do build up the Mac Pros but that the whole

1:32:33building the macros in the us- thing that you don't haven't heard much about

1:32:36that recently and the phones of course are still all assembled in China I

1:32:42imagine that means that they would realize that shipping a phone from China

1:32:46to USA is very different than shipping a car from China to the USA might send it

1:32:51means that they would make cars in China but I don't know the factory it is

1:32:55interesting that it is roughly the Rapinoe it would fit a factory and there

1:32:59are cars made in the USA mean that's the difference you know you know there's a

1:33:03lot of cars made new s so it's possible it's you know for sure is interesting

1:33:09and what's the square foot so it's I thought three acres and I wonder what

1:33:17square footage that rosa because the the Tesla the Tesla factories 5.3 million

1:33:21square feet

1:33:22I don't know what this forty three acre piece of land translates into

1:33:28but sadly it seems to be operative size but I am getting into trouble here

1:33:33seventeen the math but regardless just has a factory in Fremont

1:33:38you know the story behind that how they got their factory no I don't think so

1:33:41said they there was the factory there that was owned by jim and Toyoda and it

1:33:50was like in 1984 the Chilean and jim got together this was like right post the

1:33:58whole japanese cars what is realizing Toyota was actually ahead of you know

1:34:03American manufacturing and they said they got together and they created this

1:34:07thing called new me which is I don't know what it stands for like asthma the

1:34:11acronym because it's funny it is the United Motor something but basically

1:34:16they got together and created this new me partnership where they worked on

1:34:19advanced tech in there together that they would share

1:34:23you know whether that's tough because in the dasher drivetrain or whatever I

1:34:27don't know but there's a partnership that existed for years until 2009 and

1:34:32right when the partnership is dissolving and they were looking to sell the

1:34:35factory tested was likely running out of money and didn't have enough to buy to

1:34:40build their own but just headed up money and was able to raise enough money to

1:34:44buy this factory and and I think GMA actually took a stake if I remember

1:34:50correctly interest to you it a camera which basically they were able to buy

1:34:54this pact factory per pennies pennies on the dollar is normally required billions

1:34:59to buy you know but Apple certainly doesn't have that problem you know they

1:35:04have billions they could definitely buy buy their own factory but it was very

1:35:07interesting list was able to stop this thing up and renovate it and make it

1:35:10their own now they've done several operates all you know pristine wait all

1:35:14kinds of robotics stuff inside it's very very impressive but II you one wonders

1:35:20what one could do with unlimited funds right in not having to just scoop up

1:35:25something that already existed on the fly his death has done a pretty decent

1:35:28job of turning out cars from that when nobody thought they ever could also be

1:35:33interesting to see what somebody could built from the ground up and had

1:35:35essentially unlimited money big picture and there's a you know it's one of those

1:35:40where there's smoke there's fire things I mean Apple's made a higher they've

1:35:44hired people from the auto industry it's you know and some sense it seems crazy

1:35:49its like commanders everybody gonna make cars I mean you know it is but on the

1:35:53other hand it to me it kinda makes sense and to me it it now at the idea about

1:35:59getting into making cars and you know there's this big leak of their did you

1:36:03know that they've had high-level discussions with BMW about a partnership

1:36:06maybe you know clearly there is looking into it I mean you can almost at that as

1:36:11a fact I mean I and the only way that is not a fact that they're at least

1:36:16thinking about making cars would mean that an awful lot of reporting is has

1:36:21been fabricated so let's get there at least looking into it

1:36:24I think it's definitely safe to say they're looking at cars government space

1:36:29and they're not going to get in the car play and not think about the rest of the

1:36:32dash

1:36:33I think it did you know at a very high level it just makes intuitive sense

1:36:37because cars cost a lot of money and they involve day and can be

1:36:43differentiated and succeed because of design and they're going to be

1:36:51increasingly computerized in various ways not just like what you know having

1:36:56a touch screen on the dash but you know this

1:36:59self-driving and stuff like that and crash detection and you know trying to

1:37:02make cars that whether their self driving or entirely or partially or

1:37:07something like that but you know we're gonna head within our lifetimes were

1:37:12gonna get to a point where cars can't crash and or at least the it's

1:37:19exceedingly rare you know that is very very difficult to do try to get up to

1:37:24like airline level of safety as opposed to you know it truly I mean if you

1:37:31really I think you know and then we'll quickly look back on and like the number

1:37:35of people who die every year now in car accidents and we're gonna it's gonna

1:37:38look barbaric I really do think that's coming I did you know there's a there's

1:37:43money to be made

1:37:44be designed counts see they can be cool

1:37:48therefore I why wouldn't Apple wanna make it really i mean aren't those the

1:37:52exact arguments behind why they got into making watches people spend a lot of

1:37:56money on him

1:37:57design counts and we think watches or call therefore we're gonna make what

1:38:01yeah yeah I think so I think I think you're right in the thought processes

1:38:08can we differentiate right can we make money and I think that a lot of people

1:38:12run aground against that when they're thinking about what Apple will or won't

1:38:15do or may or may not do and they run aground against this argument like oh

1:38:19well can they make a bunch of money at it and that's not necessarily the

1:38:22argument when I think it's obviously part of it and you know ever foreseeable

1:38:26going into a business where they can't sustain it on its own merit

1:38:32or as a support structure for another business which is awake and iTunes work

1:38:36for many years until it started making a lot of money but I think that it's it's

1:38:40highly unlikely that they're ever going to go into a space where they can't

1:38:44differentiate themselves strongly and that differentiation doesn't lead to

1:38:48what they perceive anyway let's just stateside Stephanie arguments but what

1:38:53they perceived to be consumed benefit benefit for people that are buying it

1:38:56and I think cars right cards right for that because I mean I love I love of

1:39:01cars and I grew up in a building cars my dad loved them and all forms from old to

1:39:07new and you know this side of that side of the world but most of them most of

1:39:13them are crap their crap like you I said it I go I don't want to mention brownies

1:39:22to some people get offended but like you crawl into a good midsize sedan and you

1:39:26just look at the finish makes my skin it like that the door panels you touch them

1:39:32in the plastic you feel like the fingertip feel on the steering wheel

1:39:37just makes me of break on a rash most of the time and so I just think that

1:39:41there's so many I mean can you imagine Jony ive waxing rhapsodic about the

1:39:45letter rapping on the steering wheel I could you know I just think that there's

1:39:49plenty of opportunity there for them to offer a cut above at a price that is

1:39:55reasonable for what you're getting

1:39:57like safety innovations design innovations technology and electronics

1:40:02innovations that set them apart from the pack offer user benefit and allowed them

1:40:06to differentiate its like a no-brainer that they could do something there right

1:40:10and the industry is heading towards some sort of inflection point where new

1:40:14technologies are finally I hate to use the word finally but finally you know

1:40:19taking over from internal combustion engine and I haven't I've actually never

1:40:25been in a Tesla Model S I do love I love the way they look and you know but I've

1:40:30never been in one but somebody mentioned the other day that doesn't have the

1:40:34because it doesn't have a transmission it doesn't have the transmission home

1:40:38under 40 center column

1:40:43right and I had never occurred to me that a car couldn't wouldn't have that

1:40:49every car I've ever been in this had the transmission of its I've never lost

1:40:53space you know what you mean that there's no of course you know but that's

1:40:59crazy to me but it's just one small thing of like hey look we can rethink

1:41:03lot of things you know with new technology and we're headed there so

1:41:07kind of exciting thing is is that making cars is physically it takes a lot of

1:41:13space so I i really do hate it I just a guess I don't know anything about this

1:41:18real estate transaction if I had to bet though boy I have to think it's about

1:41:23the car development thing just because I think you need so much space you know

1:41:27that it and maybe you'd wanna have them off on their own

1:41:30you know campus yeah I mean the problem with the divining rod stuff about the

1:41:37car in about any other projects that they probably have half a dozen really

1:41:41far-out project projects that would blow up in headlines going on right now they

1:41:47literally are just like I don't know let's try this right and they put

1:41:50several people on it and they give us some resources and they play with it

1:41:54until they see it something interesting comes a bit and I think that's just the

1:41:57value of having their structure their cellular structure the way that they

1:42:01they develop products and experiment with different lines of thought so the

1:42:07watch interface came out of that and you know that obviously multi-touch

1:42:11everybody knows by now the multi-touch came out of that essentially a side bet

1:42:15experiment and that kind of thing leads to any leads to misinformation somebody

1:42:23can take something as as being you know in production or give them getting with

1:42:29the launch and it's really just four guys in a room talking about it you know

1:42:33and I think that that that aspect of it leads to a lot of false starts and also

1:42:38leads and all that jazz so it's hard to throw a divining rod on this but

1:42:41considering the stuff that that we've heard publicly and seen publicly the

1:42:46amount of people they've hired there I think it's safe to say that they see

1:42:50something worth exploring in the automotive space and I think that if

1:42:54you're looking there

1:42:56then you start thinking about and technologies that would attach to that

1:42:59space and some of the stuff that we've seen over the past couple years like

1:43:04things that I've heard things that people have reported but were never able

1:43:09to really lock down starts to make some sense because when you start thinking

1:43:13about be thinking the car as you mentioned with like the hump on the

1:43:17floor right that's something you don't foresee until you get in there and then

1:43:21you're like oh hey we don't need this right like this doesn't exist in our car

1:43:25I test this first one was a revamps you know smart car from ATM and then they

1:43:31did it revamps mercedes c these class or something like that they just beat

1:43:36electrique obviously in those those designed things aren't apparent because

1:43:39they haven't been built from the ground up to work the way they want and when

1:43:43they start designing them unless they're like oh hey we don't need this right and

1:43:47i think that there's some other things you could think about like for instance

1:43:50augmented reality like apple patents about 3d gesture control and augmented

1:43:55reality for a while and rumblings of that what if they have an Augmented

1:43:59Reality teaming somebody goes oh well they're gonna launch augmented reality

1:44:02for you like a glass glasses for your face

1:44:04well maybe not what if it's for a windshield what if you don't have to

1:44:08think about the way windshield works in the same way and obviously other car

1:44:12manufacturers have sort of played with this idea of the windshield providing

1:44:15you with the heads up display but what if they took that to like it's logical

1:44:19extent and said it's only gonna give you 100 is the speed limit its gonna give

1:44:25you a collision warnings and it's going to highlight potholes for you and all

1:44:29this other stuff there's just so much that could be done but hasn't been done

1:44:33because people are so tied into the way things work now and they're convinced

1:44:38that they can get away with offering people the lowest common denominator of

1:44:42product and still charge them seem out for it so they don't have to have not

1:44:46been forced to innovate by anybody and test was starting to do that they're

1:44:50certain people certain to feel the heat from them but can you imagine how the

1:44:53industry would be changed if Apple

1:44:55threw their hat in the ring and said we're thinking hard about this and this

1:44:58is the way things work now look at their damn phones you know like everybody was

1:45:02happy with the way phones were working and then I was like oh ok yeah that's

1:45:08the way things work now

1:45:09you know so I think there's potential there for everyone to end up benefiting

1:45:14regardless of whether they own an Apple car not and I think those are the

1:45:18coolest things I think I think that thing that gets overlooked about from

1:45:24the tech industry is like inside the valley the perspective that i think is

1:45:29is missed is the degree to which Apple can in with the the stature that they

1:45:39have now the way that they can influence the culture as a whole and just as bad

1:45:44where I'm going with this is the way that they've just got people talking

1:45:48about watches period outside you know the tech world and in the tech world

1:45:54they would say the argument would be will be even happier no watches just the

1:45:59newest SmartWatch we've had people and great where and Samsung is made you know

1:46:04that whole bunch of watches in the last two or three years and none of those

1:46:09ever ever existed you have to be honored to even know about them nobody whether

1:46:16regardless of how many people are have already bought an Apple watch it's out

1:46:22there and people like when you wear when I wear my Apple watch people say is that

1:46:26Apple iTouch like they just are aware that it is like to me that sort of

1:46:32awareness could really you know Apple can influence the car industry in the

1:46:36same way you know that the people will be aware of it in a way that they're not

1:46:41aware of you know like Google's self-driving cars and stuff like that

1:46:46yeah I think so too I think that there's an opportunity there for them to sort of

1:46:51lay down a bar that people have to cross right and have to rise above in order to

1:46:58be relevant

1:46:59that's that's the sort of thing with the phones and just get out of the car then

1:47:05you had to have an iPhone yeah oh yeah oh it works without your iPhone but only

1:47:13for twenty miles and it doesn't know GPS nothing I don't know maybe maybe it

1:47:21doesn't even start up with that your iPhone I don't know maybe it does you

1:47:24know like the only way you can started is there such I D with their water fun

1:47:31let me take one last break here and thank our last sponsor of the day or at

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1:48:08virus filtering I mean I guess it to be windows thing I mean for me as a Mac

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1:48:16what mail route does is it gives you a world without spam viruses or bounced

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1:48:53give them the DNS for your actual email server so outside world the email comes

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1:49:03to your email server so your email server the server that's actually hoping

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1:49:24of people out there who use Gmail only because of their spam filtering I think

1:49:30mail route is as good or better than gmail I do have some gmail email that

1:49:34goes through Gmail also have email that goes through mail road just wanna see if

1:49:39anything I think mail route is better I think less spam goes through mail and

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1:49:52your own domain it is a tremendous tremendous service I I cannot say how

1:49:57well this works for filtering out the junk and it's got cool features where

1:50:03you know here's the big thing you yes you want to filter out all the junk but

1:50:07in case something is falsely flagged how do you find out where you can set it up

1:50:11if you want to send you like a report like a weekly report like here's a bunch

1:50:15of the maybes here is you know here's a bunch of emails that we thought were

1:50:19spam we held them for you if you want to go and correct one of these just you

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1:50:47could you just don't see it you know that's how good email should work you

1:50:50just forget it

1:50:51if you're an email admin or I D Pro they've built all sorts of tools with

1:50:57you in mind they even have an API so you can program your own stuff that work

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1:51:09you want from the people handling your email and this is all they do all they

1:51:13do is just hosts are not host email but but deal with email and make it as

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1:51:33the show and you'll get a free trial and because you use that code / TTS you will

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1:52:02email really great stuff

1:52:05what else is in the news I'm trying to think there is the thing you know you

1:52:10must know that this and I guess I guess who just came out yesterday with mark

1:52:14fuhrman where your former colleague Darrell Etherington is now working for

1:52:20Apple PR and yeah yeah I mean I i dont know I know he doesn't work for me it

1:52:29was about to say I would hope I would hope that you know half the story

1:52:36yes daryl is not no longer in our room doesn't work for me anymore but I have

1:52:44respect for him

1:52:46didn't pry into what exactly is doing although my assumption is in Canada

1:52:53yeah it's a gentlemen's agreement with that somebody was your former colleague

1:52:57but it's interesting I know it doesn't make any sense for me to cry anymore

1:53:00because it is a company cover and the less that I learn about it through

1:53:05friend channels the more I can report on it through my normal reporting channels

1:53:09you know it's just it's one of those things it's a careful line yet to trade

1:53:12especially when somebody crosses the line in between PR you know our comms

1:53:18and and a journalist to get a tee and you know there's some people that are

1:53:22irritated with that especially some hard-line journalists that are really

1:53:26irritated by it I'm on my third career and I'm very very reluctant to denigrate

1:53:32anybody to look down on anybody for trying to chase what makes them happy

1:53:36and find something they don't wanna be happy doing and you know yeah I you know

1:53:42while you're doing the job on one of these sides I you know if you're like us

1:53:48right now and you are in some kind of media where we're covering Apple for our

1:53:55readership and somebody else is working for Apple under PR staff it's you know

1:54:02obviously it is two opposing sides were one side is

1:54:06you know by definition their job is to push the company's line and our job is

1:54:10to make sure that we're writing what's true and useful for our readership

1:54:16I don't think there's any reason to hard feelings about somebody who goes from

1:54:20one side to the other

1:54:22I mean it's sort of a natural transition that this is the here's the thing that

1:54:28thing is that where its disproportionate where it's not balanced is Apple has a

1:54:36lot of money and the man I know it's very hard to compete with and the media

1:54:45in general is not going through a good time and some publications you know are

1:54:51going through a terrible time and even think this may be why you lab is even

1:54:56publications that are thriving or being successful don't have the sort of

1:55:02budgets for salaries that maybe Apple does I think that's fair at the fair

1:55:08assumption to make yes you know tickets is doing ok but yeah we definitely don't

1:55:13have sixty billion dollars in the bank if we need to do some salaries here in

1:55:18there no I mean I think it's more interesting in light of like kind of the

1:55:22overall and I have had drew Olanoff who hired him back to work at TechCrunch and

1:55:31electric with you are used to work with him at the next level as well but Drew

1:55:34has spent some time in columns he was actually in with startups managing

1:55:40community in doing comments before he was ever a writer and then come back to

1:55:44it for a while where to Yahoo for a while and handle comes over there was

1:55:49recently at a couple startups and stuff like that but just really had a desire

1:55:53to write again and I'm really happy about that cuz I was able to work with

1:55:56him again he's actually got a great mind and things about this upgrade and

1:56:00because of his work there he's got good perspective so I honestly think that

1:56:04that experience on both sides of the line makes you more SATA more savvy

1:56:09reporter makes you understand what companies are saying when they say

1:56:14certain things when they're yes I knew you know it's your BS detector is is

1:56:19better I think in general but I don't think that it's it's one of those things

1:56:23that it's impossible to be honest or or your job if you're if there's ever a

1:56:30possibility of you crossing that line back and forth to think that assumes

1:56:34people are at AMA tante yeah and there's no editorial direction and no editor

1:56:39going like he should we be pushing harder on this you know it's just you

1:56:43know nobody's paying attention said that there's lots of implications there if

1:56:46you're if you're saying that's you know this can never happen that you're part

1:56:51of a tribe and that you've somehow betrayed your tribe by switching to the

1:56:54other side i mean i think thats not since I mean it's not really at the top

1:56:57I mean Steve Dowling got apple from I believe directly they key was the CNBC

1:57:05Silicon Valley correspondent so he went right from you know reporting on

1:57:12companies like Apple TV to you know being now is the head of PR and I dunno

1:57:18can't help but think that maybe there's a little even know a lot of the hires

1:57:23that they've had it not been for PR and supposedly as reported by Mark Harmon

1:57:28that's what they're doing

1:57:30you know but it wouldn't surprise me that under Stalin's leadership that they

1:57:36might go more in that direction just because that's how he got there well

1:57:40remember too that if you look at Marks report he reported later on that Josh

1:57:45Lowensohn was also on the Apple be that's you know he also was hired right

1:57:51around the same time tara was hired it looks like from the report and I know

1:57:55anything about that but it it seems like you could be right in that there's a

1:57:59street fair of that I obviously as somebody in this industry works without

1:58:04other reporters you know and and pays attention to the company it's been

1:58:09really obvious to me that they've been snapping up our reporters as I'm sure

1:58:12you know i mean they hired by Chris Breen and you know they heard an on and

1:58:18Brian from an intact and not all of those as you mentioned that been for

1:58:22common position right supposedly they have been raping and pillaging

1:58:28you know I don't like that term by using it but you know in the making sense

1:58:33they've been pillaging the media village you know you know and I think that

1:58:36that's it's evident that that's what they're doing whether that's like steve

1:58:40is like hey these guys are the people we need to get what I don't know you know

1:58:44yeah and I know John staff from Akron this is also in government story

1:58:49yesterday he's not working PR he's working Apple University and the other

1:58:55one that wasn't mentioned it really immediate hire but it sort of is it was

1:58:59I feel like he's just like so many people when they go to Apple he's

1:59:04outside their walls he's gone very quiet is Michael Gartenberg alright I was in

1:59:12the analysts and was the rare gem of an Apple analyst who was really smart and

1:59:19insightful and wrote very clearly in normal you know straightforward language

1:59:26and so yeah of course that's why they hired him because he was the good thing

1:59:32is the shooting themselves in the foot because there's nothing anybody left

1:59:35outside who understand their business and can be moderated about the way that

1:59:41the report on ya garden garden Gartenberg doesn't work in PR he is in

1:59:47Schiller's group but doing what I i dont know so he's you know somewhere in

1:59:52product marketing which is it makes sense that they would be most people on

1:59:56that understand their business and have a an insight right but they can tap into

2:00:00internally it just seems funny to me because it's like if you hire all of the

2:00:06reporters that are able to write about you without being history on a course to

2:00:10fit all you're left with is a bunch of flag-waving crazies who are happy to

2:00:20drop all over you and whatever reason Apple's closed mouth attitudes have

2:00:26maybe let you know

2:00:28exacerbated that problem whatever the case maybe they you know there's you're

2:00:34definitely removing pieces from the board that

2:00:38could be not advocates cuz that's not their job and hopefully it's not their

2:00:42job but could report on it with intelligence in with moderation and when

2:00:46they have criticisms they are they are based in contextual understanding the

2:00:50way the company actually works

2:00:52not the way that you make it work through intellectual dishonesty you know

2:00:56when you're reporting so I think that there's something I don't know you know

2:01:00some people are like a they're smart they need to go there and then Mike you

2:01:04know on the other side I say well if they're smart and you snap the ball up

2:01:08and all that's left is the dummies but not calling myself a damning

2:01:14eventually eventually I know another good one who left after Apple though was

2:01:19Ellis hamburger who left the verge for snapshot I I guess he's I don't know

2:01:24what he's do I guess he's running PR firm or something but yeah there now

2:01:28it's exactly what he's doing but yeah he did leave I mean obviously saw the

2:01:34possibilities in the end understood what they were kind of after a little sooner

2:01:37than a lot of people I think I was I was nodding along with other stuff he was

2:01:41writing about them and they probably were too so I think that's probably why

2:01:45they stopped him up but yeah it's definitely a trend a wider trend you

2:01:50know and it's you know again like you said and you're you know in the hot seat

2:01:55for it running techCrunch's that it's it's it's one thing for you to be you

2:02:00know if you're pursuing someone who uses a good writer it one thing when you're

2:02:05competing against other publications with you know roughly in the same

2:02:10business at another when you're competing startups like snapshot that

2:02:15have raised millions and millions of dollars or companies like Apple that

2:02:19while we're sitting here talking about it has made tens of millions of dollars

2:02:23even more money than we'll ever make an entire land right while we've been

2:02:27talking on this episode

2:02:29right exactly it is hard it is hard in you know when we look for an obviously

2:02:34every publication has their own sort of desires at once and and you'll have

2:02:39different desires and once for each position that we hire for but we we

2:02:43generally higher reporters for a very specific reason and that's like their

2:02:46outspoken there they understand what they what they think they understand

2:02:50their space is extremely well and they want to express them separately in a way

2:02:55that says this is what I think and thats doesn't that's not the way a lot of

2:02:59other publications work you know they hide behind a lot of editorial layers

2:03:02everything is leached out by the time you read it and see you don't know

2:03:05really whether this is the way this is what the weather's thought process was

2:03:09at all you know and because we worked that way it actually lends itself

2:03:14towards people like apple or a startup or VC firm or something like that

2:03:20understanding the way that person's brain works more than Wall Street

2:03:24Journal right right so I think we are higher target for poaching in that

2:03:29regard which you don't people get angry about it and the they do they do talk to

2:03:35us and get get a little bit they throw a lot of shade let's put it that way

2:03:40because people that work at TechCrunch maybe go to work at a company after they

2:03:45worked here for me like I said I don't begrudge anybody the ability to try

2:03:50something new and in the second aspect of it is I view it as a compliment

2:03:54because they don't go work for other media organizations because I think that

2:03:58they find work here as a lot of freedom they have a lot of flexibility they have

2:04:03space to to create what they want to create and then they go soviet they go

2:04:09somewhere else it's like walking back into a cage in shutting the door behind

2:04:12you you know I i mean that sincerely not just because you know you're here and

2:04:16smoke up your ass but TechCrunch is and always has been you know right from when

2:04:21it started as my parents say just you know his own personal site but it's

2:04:27always been a site where the bylines mattered in terms of the writer has a

2:04:31voice you know and I C you know like I noticed I noticed that drew came back to

2:04:36TechCrunch because I

2:04:37I know his name because he's got a voice and you know I started seeing by drew

2:04:43Olanoff again on TechCrunch and Iraq but I noticed that there are a lot of sites

2:04:49where the bylines don't matter not in terms of credit but where you you know

2:04:53you just don't you don't there is no voice from the writer there's no

2:04:58personality and it's just like a write-in Eric well watered down house

2:05:03style rights right exactly and I think that there there is plenty of room for

2:05:09that especially when it comes to censor the reporting i mean obviously I'm not

2:05:13gonna have a writer come out what the bombastic teak on something that's very

2:05:17sensitive like a founder who has committed suicide for instance right you

2:05:22had happened very very sadly 00 couple of times over the past couple years and

2:05:26saddam is not a situation where you're going to do that but by and large the

2:05:31large majority of tech coverage is very is is one of two things it's either

2:05:36incredibly over the top and and intellectually dishonest where somebody

2:05:41creates

2:05:43doctor yesterday published an obituary fried eggs good I like I don't begrudge

2:05:51anybody there

2:05:52angle but I just find it really hard to then take them seriously and so then

2:05:58either that or it is the very dry distant

2:06:03hide behind several layers of editorial so you don't know whether or not I

2:06:08actually believe this thing and my goal is always if I'm gonna hire a writer

2:06:13that elevator like what we do and how I want them to write the core of it is do

2:06:18you believe what you're about to publish and if you don't then go back to the

2:06:22drawing board rethink it you know it's not thought about what it looks like or

2:06:28what it feels like or what you know people the way people take it you know

2:06:32if you report on something you say a certain thing and they trash you that's

2:06:35fine

2:06:36it really doesn't matter all that matters is do you believe it because in

2:06:39the end that's why you can go home and sleep at night

2:06:42wake up tomorrow and we're both happy and we smile we see each other

2:06:46and we're not all depressed and and in our cups because we're publishing things

2:06:50we don't believe you know or publishing things we don't believe in and I think

2:06:55that's the biggest thing that's hard especially when all this money is at

2:06:58play

2:06:59you know what about what about just how metric of publish it writing stuff that

2:07:03you wouldn't want to read that is that to me is where if you're well and you

2:07:10know if you're a writer creator if you're creating things that you yourself

2:07:13would not want to consume that's that to me is when you miserable death to me and

2:07:22definitely warnings about wraps it up she talked about the only thing I could

2:07:28think to talk about would be the two of the things I swear apple.com redesign

2:07:34which I don't know that I have a lot to say about the other thing is that Apple

2:07:40music stuff that came out yesterday at EQ and what's his name did interview

2:07:44with USA today even though they said in a music first so that the news is that

2:07:53they have eleven million subscribers but everybody is still in the three-month

2:07:58period so there's no no no metrics yet on how many people are actually pain but

2:08:06that seems like a good start

2:08:08you know and and there was an acknowledgement of yester some bugs and

2:08:12it's not working great for everybody and we're on it what is when I'm when I

2:08:18can't make up my mind about and I it's just haven't used a lot I don't know

2:08:23grumpy old man I don't listen to a lot of I never really listened to I don't

2:08:28listen to music while I work that's the big thing I can't write or read why

2:08:32listen to music or I should say I can't but I find it to be distracting I like

2:08:37to write and read in silence

2:08:39I like to write in silence I can listen listen to music while I read but yeah if

2:08:45I'm writing I'm not going to put headphones on and listen to music unless

2:08:50and this is very precise thing to the grass and now we're talking about teens

2:08:55but I just find the since you brought it up every once in a while I get the

2:09:00safety is to write a story and literally the entire story is already done before

2:09:04I start writing it and in that case I play the music to get me through

2:09:07actually putting on the page has its boring and that the writing part is

2:09:14boring machine like these words downs other people know understand that then

2:09:21I'll put on some techno and all you know blaster it but yeah but if I'm trying to

2:09:24formulate ideas I do find it distracting

2:09:27yeah that's a funny way to put it there are in broad sense I do find that when I

2:09:32write there's two types of stories is the one that I already have it and it

2:09:35does seem like it's just drudgery it not drudgery but work it it feels like work

2:09:40to get it out and then there's the kind where I don't know where I'm going and

2:09:45it it's actually fun to write it even though it actually is more work because

2:09:49I actually have to go back and and change it because the the course of

2:09:54writing it is how I formulate the final idea exactly you teach yourself what you

2:10:00meant by writing at the end of it you're like oh I met this and I gotta go back

2:10:05in and it is so a quick spoiler it's a article I'm writing for verifiable it

2:10:11isn't out yet it might be a race against time whether it out before this episode

2:10:16of the podcast is out but I'm just writing a post that's just here's my

2:10:19guessing on what the new iPhone lineup will look like next month and I started

2:10:24it by trying to get to where Moulton I last week on the show were both thinking

2:10:31maybe they would do like a four-inch iPhone 6 see sort of like the internals

2:10:36of the iPod touches that just came out and the AAA and the foreign size and

2:10:42that was when I started writing the article about and as I wrote the article

2:10:45I've came to the conclusion that that's

2:10:47that's not going to happen in that that I know and discovery is but I actually

2:10:55had to then go back to the beginning and like rewrite almost everything I started

2:11:00by trying to make the argument that this is why I think they might do this and as

2:11:03I wrote the article it's like by forcing myself to make sentences out of its like

2:11:07you know that's not going to happen there you know what they're doing

2:11:10there'd be leaks of the components by now and there are no leads so it's not

2:11:14gonna happen that's called being intellectually honest right but that is

2:11:19you prove you try to proving you try to stretch the facts and truth of what you

2:11:24know to be true if it in there that she had created before you know and so

2:11:28there's there's that too it's fun so anyway I did you know my daily life I

2:11:34don't listen to a lot of me i i work an awful lot if you know dicking around on

2:11:39the web and linking the things you can call work and when I'm doing that I'm

2:11:43not listen to music constantly waiting for somebody to make me go back and eat

2:11:47it everyday

2:11:48ok well when they tend to go back to that feel that way I think we're OK and

2:11:56then when I'm listening to stuff because I'm bored I want something to listen to

2:11:59its almost always podcasts and so I don't listen to a lot of music and so

2:12:03I've played around without them

2:12:05music and it works for me but I don't use it enough to run into these bugs

2:12:10that people have run into so I just don't know why I don't feel like I'm in

2:12:13a position to judge this is where I'm getting is is this a a sort of rough 1.0

2:12:20and has some kinks to be worked out but it's you know they're on track and yes

2:12:23that just bugs it's a one point out they ship when they shipped and they'll fix

2:12:27it or is it a disaster and they've got a permanent mess on their hands

2:12:32I i dont know I see people espousing both opinions I mean like I just joke

2:12:38Gizmodo published an obituary frightens yesterday so I i tend to think that's

2:12:47hyperbole but I don't know that I've used it enough to form an opinion on

2:12:50I mean I think everybody who's used it for any period of time

2:12:56understands that iTunes is not the most well-written piece of software anymore

2:13:01and that's no real one person's fault necessarily though you can probably find

2:13:06somebody in the chain somewhere who you could blame but I think that it's been

2:13:12asked to do so many different things by now that it's impossible for it to

2:13:16execute on any of them with any real sense of of competency you know it just

2:13:23does stuff it doesn't really do stuff well and i think that that is part of

2:13:28what we're up against here when they're smashing Apple music into iTunes and

2:13:34which is the argument for separating it right

2:13:37having an apple music or whatever the case may be and which I think honestly

2:13:41would lead to more complexity so I'm not usually fund but you could easily see a

2:13:46music app and a video is that right in and the videos app contains your video

2:13:52library just like it doesn't I Wes and the music app contained you know radio

2:13:56and your music and all that stuff and then the stores were then attached to

2:14:00each of them you can't even look at the apple.com redesign as a sort of

2:14:04indicators to with it think about it and right now your music collection is

2:14:09separate from the store but without the music it doesn't have to be right

2:14:13it literally is you could be 11 units and you could you could be listening to

2:14:18a song and attitude collection which is totally possible without the music right

2:14:22now there's just lots of indicators of a standalone app could really work well

2:14:26and could mesh better than it currently does where you switch back and forth all

2:14:30I know is like my movie library is is pretty big and iTunes handles it

2:14:35incredibly poorly in Apple TV handles it even worse

2:14:39yeah I've 954 movies wait how mend 954 wow they are all bought through iTunes

2:14:47or no no no no I'm some of them but you know I have a good portion of them maybe

2:14:5620% or purchase but from iTunes but a large majority of them are ripped

2:15:02blu-rays DVDs other kinds of things so they're not the most amazing quality but

2:15:07a lot of times they're good enough for me to watch every once in a great while

2:15:11what I want to watch it but it's just like a digitized by collection so they

2:15:14did I and you get out what you put that on your home network and iTunes

2:15:19supposedly throwing the idea through your iCloud account you can see them

2:15:26from your Apple TV exactly what the on the Apple TV when you have 954 movies

2:15:31Italy the list scrolls for an eternity rate like it's just a scrollable list

2:15:37there's no genre breakdowns the meditators there but there's no John

2:15:41breakdowns there's no way to even look at them in cover form it's literally

2:15:46just an endlessly scrolling list of names it's the worst possible interface

2:15:51for a largely movie library yeah it's and it's not good it sucks I i out of

2:15:57laziness i mean i i'd still buy Blu rays for movies that i truly love her

2:16:02expected love you know Criterion Collection I've got all kubrick stuff on

2:16:06blu-ray and stuff like that but for the most part if it's just regular crap we

2:16:13just booked by Mr gonna buy weed by the iTunes version so we've got I figured

2:16:18it's like holy cow that's a lot of money is we've been doing it for years we've

2:16:22got a little over 300 movies that we bought from iTunes and on in a

2:16:28soon-to-be dats you know not rips these aren't like on a Mac these are the ones

2:16:32we bought from iTunes but one Apple TV when you visit the current Apple TV when

2:16:38you go to all movies it's like 10 seconds before the list comes up before

2:16:43anything comes up so it's like you almost have to make it easy to get to

2:16:49the one you just be the most recent two or three because they're up there at the

2:16:52top in the little short cut section but if you want to look at a movie that you

2:16:57bought years ago

2:16:58it's really stings he exactly if you if it's something about recent I mean the

2:17:05cycle we go through with my daughter is you know will you know once you try this

2:17:11you know this movie and she'll hate it but you have to test it the first time I

2:17:15watch it and then she'll start asked me to watch it again and should watch it

2:17:17over and over again until like I recently introduced her to James and the

2:17:21Giant Peach and at first she was totally disinterested in a completely no thanks

2:17:26but then now she watches it like once or twice a day right and same thing with

2:17:30Iron Giant where you know those of the movie she alternates between right now

2:17:34been previously did I was like monsters mean can you know so on and so forth

2:17:38right they'll be a thing that is she's interested in so when she wants to watch

2:17:42a movie that day you know what he wanted to be like a giant dildos right at the

2:17:48top but if it's anything else it is a drill-down job to get to the rest of it

2:17:53so regardless of what your use cases whether she should watch movie or you

2:17:59know you're serious movie collector I don't think either people are really

2:18:02being serviced well at this point you know and I think that there needs to be

2:18:07a severe revamp their on the Apple TV but I think that part of that is in

2:18:10iTunes as well as iTunes at the moment it's not all that effective either it's

2:18:15either a list or a list of covers that does not scroll well really bored

2:18:23takes a long time to load anyway I have a very strong feeling that there will be

2:18:29no answer to that problem in a month

2:18:34yeah I think there has to be i dont i dont really I'm in the same boat as you

2:18:39as far as music goes I don't have a really comprehensive list of my gripes

2:18:46or anything like that because I use it really casually you know I have a music

2:18:50library but most my music library is classic rock as I that's when I was

2:18:55buying a lot of music on CDs and rip them I was buying a lot of classic rock

2:18:59my musical tastes have changed significantly over the last three albums

2:19:02I bought were like Mumford and Sons Brandon Flowers new album and the

2:19:06contrary soundtrack so they come over the map now but

2:19:10I very rarely go through my music library in place up anymore I generally

2:19:15pub on Rdio and then just listen to the popular stuff like what's new what's

2:19:21interesting so I can discover new people and go oh I like you know I like you

2:19:26know man camera like whatever you know what to subject or some some new artists

2:19:31that I I am pretty excited about now and so that discovery aspect of things is

2:19:35serviced fine for me by clicking on the radio tab and just you know letting it

2:19:40play or forgoing the four new tab and just clicking on something so for me I'm

2:19:45pretty easy so I'm not the right person to be a critical about it easy pleaser

2:19:50that's the first thing that comes to mind when I think of you mad easy

2:19:57pleaser in this one small what do you think about the new apple.com yeah yeah

2:20:09ok so I think it's good I don't like it like you I don't have a lot to say about

2:20:13it but I think it is it's going to be a nice statement for anybody that has a

2:20:20separate store to get over it and said in a great their exploration curation

2:20:25and store all into one to have a soul like showroom mentality I think you put

2:20:32that put it that way

2:20:32yeah yeah but I think that's that's accurate i think that the reason it was

2:20:40it was more of an engineering issue than its vision that that's the way they

2:20:47should do it right it was it just sort of evolved that way and that they had

2:20:52this convoluted web objects system that they wrote in house for the store they

2:20:56did a lot of cool things and couldn't be easily replaced but it also had a lot of

2:21:00problems and so to me the most interesting thing we talked about and

2:21:04and a lot of people have a story like if we don't it's the one day I know we

2:21:08haven't talked about is are they still gonna take the store down when they have

2:21:12like a press event and long story short that the deal is is that that's started

2:21:18because technically they had to take the store down for hours to make certain

2:21:24there were certain types of changes that had involved taking the entire store

2:21:28down for hours and it that's part of it was the way that they're different

2:21:32stores around the world you know four different currencies and stuff like that

2:21:35and part of it was just the way that it was made and that explains why there are

2:21:42times you know there's almost like a bad signal like the Apple stores down likes

2:21:46if it's down the morning of WWDC keynote or product right or if it's down next

2:21:53september you know I don't know what day is the consensus gas for when you know

2:21:58that's going to be you know I don't know looking at my calendar I'm thinking

2:22:02maybe september fourteenth or something in December 14th September 15th in a bit

2:22:08of the press events go out our invites go out you know the week before and the

2:22:13story goes down that morning will be everybody knows that but there were

2:22:16times you know four years we're like on a random Wednesday the Apple Store goes

2:22:20down for an hour and people get excited and you know what's going on and it

2:22:24comes back up and it was nothing right so my understanding is that those days

2:22:30are over they the new engineering that's going on here is they're not going to

2:22:34have to take the store down for just just because they have to but my guess

2:22:42is they'll still do something like that evolved into a way to make people

2:22:46excited you know it build anticipation and quite frankly if they're announcing

2:22:52new iPhones this morning they don't want you to buy an old you know me because

2:22:57they know you're gonna send it right you know you're gonna be mad to cancel your

2:23:00order and and send it back anyway yeah so maybe they just turn off the buy

2:23:05button right I mean I think that there I asked about this and got no comment but

2:23:12you know about the whole like wellville website come down how

2:23:16and got no comment from them but the if you look at the way that the switch when

2:23:23they did it like 40 countries like forty different stores and they did it

2:23:27seamlessly I actually saw somebody was even browsing the site and it changed on

2:23:33them as they click from one section to another so whether that translates in

2:23:37forward into them being able to do whatever they want without having to

2:23:41take everything down I don't know but it's an interesting indicator you know a

2:23:45leading indicator of maybe the way it works differently now than it did before

2:23:49and one of the reasons that they did all the engineering you know the scenes I

2:23:53mean I would be really surprised if it's so random objects although it may I

2:23:57don't think so and it seems based on my Twitter you know it's hard to tell from

2:24:00the outside but it's clearly not web objects that directly talking to the

2:24:04browser there's some kind of a patchy front and now and now that could be some

2:24:08kind of load balancer something in front of web objects but it doesn't seem like

2:24:12it and I said that it felt faster but I don't know maybe it's that you know what

2:24:16are called the new and shiny placebo effect but a bunch of other people on

2:24:20Twitter said no it's not just you it's definitely faster so that makes me think

2:24:24it's not web objects anymore and if it is web objects went well hidden behind a

2:24:31faster much better-looking yeah anyway that's the news of the week anything

2:24:38else do you want to talk about having lost you probably lost you ok clear

2:24:45again

2:24:46Skype is the worst you know it's funny and that I got you know I don't pay for

2:24:51it I guess I could maybe if I could they go away but this year launched Skype now

2:24:54and it gives you like a list of things you can do and my list of suggested

2:24:58things to do was one upgrade to Windows 10 and to take a depression test is at

2:25:05the that's literally what it says in the main Skype window and a landscape while

2:25:10things to do today and I can't help but think that they're related exactly must

2:25:18be really get that are using Skype is really did it anyway

2:25:24anyway it was you've been extraordinary graces with your time

2:25:27and I was a great conversation Matthew pans arena people can read your work at

2:25:32techcrunch.com where you are your title is editor-in-chief you would it would

2:25:38you title yeah editor-in-chief which is well-deserved you're doing a very good

2:25:43job there

2:25:44CPU and on Twitter they can see your very fine tweets at at panzer P A N Z Y

2:25:53are at a time when I get on skype I typed in panzer and I was very upset

2:25:59when I introduced into just people people introduced me as being so now I

2:26:04just let it ride it's a good name down sounds cool anyway I thank you for your

2:26:11time