The Talk Show

121: ‘He Was Sort of Anti-Golf’, With Guest Rene Ritchie

 

  I don't know where to start when you start with Jony ive China have I guess [TS]

  that's probably historically the biggest news of the week so we just talked about [TS]

  or so [TS]

  Monday Memorial Day holiday I was just so did not know it make sense of this [TS]

  when it hit a story came out in the Telegraph in the United Kingdom written [TS]

  by Stephen Fry who though I don't have some complained about the article is a [TS]

  wonderful you know one of the world's most beloved figures I mean he's a [TS]

  comedian actor writer and longtime Apple fan wrote a profile and I guess you'd [TS]

  call it a profile I don't know it even headline is weird [TS]

  it's the headline is when Stephen Fry met Johnny I've the self-confessed tech [TS]

  geek talks to Apple's new Lee promoted chief design officer in an exclusive [TS]

  interview in which I was promotion is revealed for the first time Stephen Fry [TS]

  meet Jony ive and his boss apple chief executive Tim Cook to talk spaceships [TS]

  design and jobs and so you know so part of the news it's it's sort of a [TS]

  first-person account of hanging out with Jony ive into it which in and of itself [TS]

  is interesting but to me that and the part that's just odd to me is that this [TS]

  this is how Apple chose to unveil what would you call it that [TS]

  executive change which is that johnnie I'm has been promoted from senior vice [TS]

  president of design to chief design officer and two of his lieutenants [TS]

  Richard Howarth and Allen died [TS]

  have been promoted to new titles vice president holworth is vice president of [TS]

  industrial design and Alan excuse me sorry about that Allen died been [TS]

  promoted to vice president of UI design it's super interesting because richard [TS]

  has been working with Johnny I for a long time in industrial design [TS]

  department they're they're a very close-knit team very involved team and [TS]

  Alan I came over with iOS 7 which is just a couple years and it's and it's a [TS]

  supervising topic to talk about because the dynamic of ideas that they all did [TS]

  work together for so long we're so used to collaborating but with a child [TS]

  johnnie I was new to it and he needed someone who was a strong collaborator in [TS]

  you I but he didn't go with any of the traditional like Greg Christie team he [TS]

  went with Alan diaper marketing and then had to collaborate because he doesn't [TS]

  drop axle yeah great chris is an interesting yeah I don't and that's one [TS]

  of those that want to have you on talk about this cause I feel like you're a [TS]

  little just in your your your mental rolodex as a little bit more up-to-date [TS]

  than mine on some of the names and stuff like that but Greg Christie is a great [TS]

  example like where I'm at amino member what his title was but I remember [TS]

  certainly it will I hope they don't tell you one of them weird things about WWDC [TS]

  is that they don't tell you who's presenting until you go to the session [TS]

  or until you start playing the session and there is a credit that tells you who [TS]

  is who's talking to you but in advance they don't tell you and sometimes who is [TS]

  giving the presentation is actually more of an indication as to what the subject [TS]

  is gonna be than this than the title of the session I think I last saw Craig [TS]

  Christy and I saw him do the big presentation on how they design photos [TS]

  for iOS four years ago [TS]

  yes I remember that one right and it just because it just so happened that I [TS]

  you know the user interface stuff is always more interesting to me and always [TS]

  a little bit more you know up my mi [TS]

  will house as as as one might say I am I said in my wheel barrel in my wheelhouse [TS]

  as one would say I wound up in Greg's Christie led sessions many times over [TS]

  the years I think I seem to recall long time ago there was even like one that [TS]

  was more like a panel discussion like stuff that they don't do it anymore but [TS]

  yeah that was a great Christie was from back in the day when there was like a [TS]

  general hii team that was sort of I guess really just reported jobs [TS]

  didn't really have wasn't really part of any kind of chain yet as far as I mean a [TS]

  child was always sort of elevated it out will be on where they would have been a [TS]

  maybe another company that would have been slaughtered in under some VP of [TS]

  some software products division somewhere but you know and as i've sort [TS]

  of written just dipping my toes in part of this is that one of the reasons Jony [TS]

  ive wanted to bring user interface design and under his design teams [TS]

  umbrella is that he wasn't exactly happy with all of the direction that that [TS]

  interface design it gone at Apple in recent years many years prior and [TS]

  because obviously it was a change I mean there's no I mean whether you love iowa [TS]

  seven in Yosemite looks or whether you don't like them or whether you're [TS]

  ambivalent about them nobody can deny that there was a shift in athletics [TS]

  absolutely and that I feel like a slut gets blamed for a lot of that but you [TS]

  know it was Steve Jobs airplane that had the famous Dutch leather texture that he [TS]

  was a big proponent of that sort of importance and Greg Christie and I'm [TS]

  blanking on the gentleman's last name badge who testified on the Samsung [TS]

  lawsuits that subsequently left out they were intimately involved in the early [TS]

  years of the ice on design that whole team in that whole focus and he really [TS]

  did feel like he wanted something new right [TS]

  and you know alan dies from you know came from as an apple turns marcom which [TS]

  I don't do that widespread the industry I always thought that was sort of a nap [TS]

  ilysm no I used to work for me it's always been normal in an enterprise and [TS]

  I think you and I both work in print design for a while and I was found that [TS]

  sort of background analyst Mark Edwards did that to always found that sort of [TS]

  background really educational instead of moving into digital design and anyway [TS]

  Craig Christy left Apple not immediately but he left in their pens are in a story [TS]

  from April 19 2014 veteran designer Greg Christie departs and I don't know that [TS]

  it's a simple I don't know the story there you know whether it was you know [TS]

  just what you picked him said to me then I'm out you know I don't know or if it [TS]

  was just you know but Chris had been there for a long time and it's you know [TS]

  maybe you could just put his finger in the wind until it was time to go but yes [TS]

  and there is definitely it was not exactly universally seen as the right [TS]

  decision within Apple I think that's absolutely true that you said that [TS]

  really well and it was a joke around the time the nightly match it was gonna hate [TS]

  the direction yes yeah but there's a lot of people who fell into that camp of [TS]

  liking rich textures and rich designs and they had to be on board a minor [TS]

  standing as it was a really big meeting with this whole direction was announced [TS]

  and not everybody was happy with it but at the same time you have people like [TS]

  Christina people like army longer I who literally did force marathons marathons [TS]

  of sprints for years and years and years and I think that comes to a point where [TS]

  you just need to Stop behavior that intense level of doing iOS and a yearly [TS]

  grind schedule [TS]

  yeah so I think bottom line is because holworth is you know industrial design [TS]

  has been under johnny's group that was in fact that was Johnny's group I think [TS]

  just any old days joins group really was just industrial design and Howarth has [TS]

  been part of that and clearly you know Johnny trust him and they've gotten [TS]

  along that whole group has by all accounts and I've ever read has always [TS]

  been very tight-knit and has gotten along extremely well that there's it's [TS]

  not just that they do good work but that there's a true Colorado hurry I think [TS]

  that's been part of the secret of keeping a lot of creative people they [TS]

  don't go very long term Bill Watterson famously retired from Calvin and Hobbes [TS]

  and some people like George Lucas end up making prequels which is not best of [TS]

  their work and I think the relationship that I D group had backed out they were [TS]

  off somewhere in the boonies and he brought them to IL to and set them up [TS]

  and made them so important but that group seems to have kept them all fed [TS]

  and energized alive for many many years right it's you know it's the holiest of [TS]

  holy shit you know the inner sanctum in that state that is the center of [TS]

  infinite loop is dead their design lab I mean maybe not the physical Center [TS]

  obviously but it's the you know the place that the least viewers number of [TS]

  people have ever seen very few key cards can't access right but it you know prior [TS]

  to this shakeup where where you know forced always was ousted and UI design [TS]

  was placed under Jony ive in that group prior to that there were a child there [TS]

  were people who do as I can hii group but then there were also like it was [TS]

  spread about where somebody might go off on a team and then they were you know [TS]

  like I for example like with I think with the original iPhone and can you [TS]

  correct me if I'm wrong because I could I could very much be wrong on this as a [TS]

  basic story [TS]

  but the basic gist was when they committed to doing the iPhone forestall [TS]

  was placed in charge of the software and forestall went around the company [TS]

  cherry-picking designers who he wanted and with you know this is this part is [TS]

  true I don't know if he did it to everybody but at least for some people [TS]

  it was I'm putting together a team to do something and it's going to be the [TS]

  greatest thing in your career and I cannot tell you what it is but if you [TS]

  want to join you know you'll work harder than you ever have but it's going to be [TS]

  great you are you in or out and if they said they're in the neighbor on the team [TS]

  but then it wasn't like there was this one interface group that part of what [TS]

  they did is put together an iPhone team the iPhone team had its own interface [TS]

  crew cherry pick from around the company and it was like that with other projects [TS]

  to maybe to a lesser degree because the iPhone was a major major endeavor yet I [TS]

  think that's absolutely true and I think cannot run debug was talking about how [TS]

  they had to all be disclosed by Steve Jobs in when he wasn't around he would [TS]

  have to go into one room look at the designs then walk out to the undisclosed [TS]

  designers are described to them what they do which is it makes sense I could [TS]

  see how it makes sense to Steve Jobs and it makes you know and it obviously [TS]

  worked out for Apple to some degree but obviously was not a very there was an ad [TS]

  hoc nature to user interface designed to software design and they had limited [TS]

  design resources and had to be shared pool [TS]

  it sounds like a really grueling project get out and I know once I think you [TS]

  could argue you know maybe but you know it's one of those things where it [TS]

  doesn't have to be there or they're not necessarily mutually exclusive on the [TS]

  one side you could say that what johnnie I loved it orchestrated in 2011 with [TS]

  forestall going out and all of you I design being placed under him and [TS]

  picking new people to run it and setting a new style you could say that it was a [TS]

  power grab that it was an expansion of just you know just ego and an expansion [TS]

  of his power but I think very reasonable sent you could say it was a [TS]

  growing up like it it made the process of UI design much more orderly within [TS]

  Apple because it wasn't spread about where each individual project might peel [TS]

  off its own team yeah I think that's absolutely true and he is interesting to [TS]

  me is a Scott Forstall was widely known as it was known that is Steve Jobs said [TS]

  I want leather for this is Scott wasn't around the designer was almost lose his [TS]

  mind because it would just be no no no no no you weren't forty fifty a hundred [TS]

  different designs but Scott was there he could say Steve will pick one of these [TS]

  three and Steve would pick one of those three and that saved everyone a [TS]

  tremendous amount of work but an apple where there's no Steve Jobs the value [TS]

  that for hiv/aids is the combination the alchemy of that is very different and [TS]

  then you have the same time someone like johnnie I'm sitting in the wings who was [TS]

  on the record he said before he didn't like the scheme or fake design or not [TS]

  arguably the best designer in the world who is not allowed to take control or to [TS]

  to to influence of his tastes on the software that runs on his hardware and [TS]

  then Tim Cook comes in and it always reminded me of what Steve Jobs returned [TS]

  to Apple when he said [TS]

  desktop laptop professional consumer and he came in and he just said design [TS]

  services hardware and software and he made out very clean that way in a way [TS]

  that it didn't need to be under jobs and again I think that emphasizes that part [TS]

  of what made forestall talented and essential and so so important to the [TS]

  history of especially iOS you know the iPhone and iPad wasn't just that he was [TS]

  good manager and by all accounts he was he shipped OS is on time and there you [TS]

  know some people would argue they were more reliable etc but I and an uncanny [TS]

  ability he seemed to have is that he seemed it wasn't just that he had good [TS]

  taste it was the heat new Steve's taste and that his you know they're one of the [TS]

  profiles for something that was written one of the pieces that was written about [TS]

  for starters it might have been an unnamed person who was complaining that [TS]

  like you know [TS]

  they present stuff to forestall and forestall would say Steve wouldn't like [TS]

  that and then that was all they had to do is say Steven like it and that's [TS]

  enough to bounce back to the drawing board and that it got tiresome over the [TS]

  time but I think the fact that he lasted so long as a direct report to Steve Jobs [TS]

  in that role [TS]

  shows that he he was right there he knew what he would like and what he wouldn't [TS]

  like that any company will you have some like Steve Jobs that's an essential [TS]

  skill to get anything done and we've all heard the stories I can make that blue [TS]

  more beautiful that can burn hours and weeks from the designer [TS]

  if you can short-cut that process with someone like scott foresman immensely [TS]

  valuable right because you couldn't just it wasn't like you were gonna get a [TS]

  chance at 10 a.m. on a Tuesday when he says you know no that's not good enough [TS]

  you don't get a chance at 10 a.m. the next day to also presented him you've [TS]

  got a way you might be stuck waiting a week or longer before you get a chance [TS]

  to to get your project in front of him yet what if there's something that's [TS]

  worth fighting for a story like iTunes and Windows was great example but [TS]

  there's a lot of smaller example Scott was somebody could go back to steve is a [TS]

  look I really think which take another look at this and then projects that [TS]

  might have otherwise been derailed in a few minutes sometimes be gradually get [TS]

  back on track right so rather than just merely and being an arbiter of good [TS]

  taste being an arbiter of Steve Jobs is good taste was essential and I think you [TS]

  know hindsight clearly not very valuable to Apple after steve Jobs was does it [TS]

  looks like he's not Steve Jobs he doesn't need that service and Jony ive [TS]

  has peerless taste of his own so he doesn't mean that's right [TS]

  different days and it does make you wonder in hindsight what some of cos [TS]

  I've in [TS]

  and and you know Steve Jobs famously you know where we're actually friends more [TS]

  than just collaborators and ate lunch together all the time it makes you [TS]

  wonder how much feedback Johnny had given him over the years you know that [TS]

  was obviously rejected in terms of trying to steer the user interface in a [TS]

  direction more palatable to himself without actually having any kind of [TS]

  actual role in it I think something you said a couple years ago was really [TS]

  astute there because the age before retina and especially when mobile [TS]

  devices were really knew swipe to unlock nobody knew what that was so making a [TS]

  giant group in there and making a very elaborate but it gave you that afforded [TS]

  that visual clue of how you had to use that and/or Steve would say you know [TS]

  this is a database app [TS]

  no one cares about that give it a texture and it sounds dumb but if you're [TS]

  stumbling home tired or drunk and you open up a nap in your contacts and [TS]

  there's no there's nothing to tell you which contacted is maybe try to call a [TS]

  cab in Game Center and you just you just don't know [TS]

  so there were a lot of usability reasons and just philosophical reasons why I [TS]

  think that started off but then as a transition to read into that sort of [TS]

  texture doesn't hold up in here I think it's a combination i emphasize that my [TS]

  years ago my thought was a lot more about the retina nan Ren and that you [TS]

  needed the other thing was in addition to this the affordances of knowing what [TS]

  to do and having that slide to unlock which as you know to me like just put [TS]

  that design itself not even the whole iPhone but just put that slide to unlock [TS]

  itself could then in the museum because that is it it it made people wow people [TS]

  want to buy the phone just from slide to unlock and tell you how to use it right [TS]

  I I have my thought a couple of years ago was simply about the fact that even [TS]

  at a hundred and sixty-three pixels per inch which was pretty high for the time [TS]

  in 2007 still wasn't that high [TS]

  it was only high compared to the hundred and twenty-two hundred and thirty years [TS]

  pixels per inch we had our Macs at the time that you needed to use those sort [TS]

  of Photoshop style user interface designs just to make it look good so [TS]

  that as soon as you look at it you thought wow that looks cool because [TS]

  something like I was 7 it just doesn't look that great does nothing about it [TS]

  makes you go well but I think that they are foreign stuff was important to cause [TS]

  I think the basic idea with the original iPhone was that like Steve Jobs use the [TS]

  analogy when he introduced it hears all these other phones of the time and look [TS]

  what they've got they've got all these buttoned but here's the thing about all [TS]

  these hardware buttons it reduces the amount of space you have now the screens [TS]

  on this big and then number two a year from now we come up with this great idea [TS]

  for a new feature we're stuck with the buttons we have already come up with a [TS]

  year ago and that we've solved this problem [TS]

  years and years ago called bitmap screen and then you can make all the buttons [TS]

  you want whenever you want and only have the buttons that you need right now [TS]

  screen so we'll do the whole thing will just be a screen and will make the [TS]

  buttons and software but I think that the basic idea was make the buttons look [TS]

  like fake hardware and that in every single app it's like a dedicated device [TS]

  simulating a dedicated hardware device for that future and the broadcast media [TS]

  famous example of that it its people they thought was a people wouldn't know [TS]

  how to approach to the blank piece of glass and if you made it look like [TS]

  something they were familiar with at least they start tapping around and then [TS]

  discover how it worked for the CIA call recorder I know that wasn't in the first [TS]

  OS but it certainly was one of the early ones the compass is another 12 real I [TS]

  cashed out the last big example right and even the ones that didn't have an [TS]

  appt you know something like mail which didn't really have a brown style you [TS]

  know gadget you could compare it to [TS]

  to just the fact that there is little 3d effects between the you know the [TS]

  keyboard and the content area it's just ever so gently suggested that this is [TS]

  what it would look like if you had a hardware device that was just for email [TS]

  and the original at least the first version baden compoz anywhere nearly as [TS]

  well as later versions why we didn't get wallpaper I was actually so they had a [TS]

  lot a lot fewer things they could do actually write well the basic basic idea [TS]

  I always thought with the original home screen was to make it look like at the [TS]

  home screen level by having just a black wallpaper the idea was you've got this [TS]

  device that is sort of like a calculator where each icon is a but you know it's [TS]

  like this I could dial pad instead of having numbers right like an old phone [TS]

  headphones that they were replacing the basic interface was a you know [TS]

  1234567890 at bottom dialpad the dial pad on the iPhone was you know these 11 [TS]

  apps a really good insight absolutely it it was all so different than competitive [TS]

  products when not initially but it would later prove widget on the home screen it [TS]

  always felt like Apple never one of the home screen to be a destination just [TS]

  write it was just a dial pad dial up whatever happy needed the device to [TS]

  transform itself into yes absolutely [TS]

  so I kind of you know we could back down all the way back to this news about [TS]

  johnnie I great kristy are not going well and I on diet and Richard Howarth [TS]

  well and you know guys I Christie leaving it it turned you I design into [TS]

  something that works exactly like industrial design had always worked up [TS]

  like and in theory they could have done the same thing by not putting it under [TS]

  johnnie I but just by picking somebody else like Greg Christie and setting up [TS]

  UI design as a separate peer to industrial design right they could have [TS]

  name instead of putting it all under johnnie I they coulda said Johnny you're [TS]

  still in charge of industrial design you design on the hardware and now we've [TS]

  named this guy Greg Christie could've been anybody else you are like the Jony [TS]

  ive of UI design and you'll set up your own land and you guys were designed on [TS]

  the basis didn't have to be in one but it you know but I do think that either [TS]

  way it was the right way to go moving forward without jobs at the helm as CEO [TS]

  somebody has to be in charge of the taste some you know it had to be done [TS]

  yet know i think thats various do I think these you can see clearly that [TS]

  right away the big the first big project that came out was iOS 7 and when they [TS]

  did the advertising for the iPhone 5 see they had better together as their slogan [TS]

  he wanted to show the pallets matched over that though the hardware and [TS]

  software being together was an important thing for the only reason I say that had [TS]

  to be driven by joining I but that was the benefit of putting all this together [TS]

  and I think the watches the combination of that because say what you want about [TS]

  the watch and what you know whether you like the you know where you think the [TS]

  watch stands in terms of you know is it better than the original iPhone is it [TS]

  better than the original iPad whatever I don't think to me there's no doubt that [TS]

  the hardware and software integration [TS]

  are tighter with the watch than any any other device and talking about UI design [TS]

  in particular that the UI just doesn't make any sense except in the context of [TS]

  this watch and it's it is something brand new and it's also a category where [TS]

  Apple had 10 years 10 years of tablets of Windows tablet PC to look at watches [TS]

  were still very new yet the pebble you had a call Samsung watches but now those [TS]

  those came later probably after Apple had to do a lot of their original [TS]

  concepts for the watch [TS]

  so it's a project where Apple had to not just identify problems like this we hate [TS]

  this because and the ordeal of watches but they had sort of figure out how to [TS]

  make the watching computer and not just additional mechanism anymore [TS]

  famously well maybe nothing maybe people don't know this but in the development [TS]

  of the original iPhone the four stalls software team didn't see the prototypes [TS]

  of the hardware they were developing you know there and I they knew the size of [TS]

  the screen and then you obviously knew it was going to be a touch screen but [TS]

  they didn't get to see what the prototypes and which is a little bit [TS]

  less important I feel like the software team just knowing okay to touch screen [TS]

  that is you know 320 by 480 and you know it's going to be to Glasgow touch it [TS]

  them working blind on the hardware is a little bit less meaningful than the fact [TS]

  that the hardware teamed didn't get to see the software like and you know you [TS]

  know the stairs then maybe was even on eBay where like a prototype like there [TS]

  was this like super janky looking you know like stand-in [TS]

  yes [TS]

  so we should try to find the link to this skank was the code name for the the [TS]

  standard OS I think it's the it's the sort of the development that runs on the [TS]

  technical information you need a crowd from electronics to do a lot of things [TS]

  right it was sort of like a diagnostic I guess you could say and purposefully did [TS]

  not look good at all it was you know maybe look bad so that I wasn't like [TS]

  they lied to them and said hey this is the OS are you guys don't get to see the [TS]

  OS make the hardware and here's this ugly diagnostic OS where you can test to [TS]

  make sure that you know WiFi antenna is doing what the wifi antennas supposed to [TS]

  do it better and so forth [TS]

  I think even some of the earlier prototypes were just component and I [TS]

  think this has been true for years just components literally bolted down on [TS]

  boards yes yeah definitely [TS]

  to receive the like the early [TS]

  iPod it's it's really big and it was never supposed to pull anybody in the [TS]

  thinking was the product but it's just like a bunch of things on a board and [TS]

  there's a dial you know that was the click wheel but it just looked like a [TS]

  nod off to the side that you would spend around but smart because if you have to [TS]

  wait for me you can't you can't have one follow the same time but it's it seems [TS]

  very clear to me I would be shocked to find out otherwise because it with you [TS]

  know with all 10 Jony ive design lab but it's it seems very clear to me that the [TS]

  watch was developed with the software and hardware at the same time even [TS]

  beyond that because there is some silently have Kevin Lynch and charge of [TS]

  the software not craig Venter et but it also seems like the people who do [TS]

  messaging for iOS are in touch with the people who doing it watching and there's [TS]

  not sort of that strict divided there used to be in that results of the stuff [TS]

  working together perfectly but very well [TS]

  right I do think I think Lynch reports the battery though but the idea was that [TS]

  you know rather than spread federal center then here is that you know they [TS]

  needed somebody who is just going to be you know you know what I don't know if [TS]

  he was I don't know how there's the Apple term the DRI directly responsible [TS]

  individual but at least he you know somebody has to be the DRO for the OS [TS]

  itself if not the design of the OS and the actual like it all coded up you know [TS]

  here's the bill and the build is ready you know this is 1.0 for a watch and [TS]

  that was Kevin Lynch I think someone also and this was definitely got someone [TS]

  has to have that single act of will to Perth something new and it's arguable [TS]

  whether the same person should mature that product but you really have to have [TS]

  that person whose only job it is to make that much crime so with the ice storm I [TS]

  i have to me I'm guilty as charged were on my first read through the article I [TS]

  took a deep breath and thought what does is this the first step to him going out [TS]

  the door and I just read too much into it I think but that whole thing he was [TS]

  going to travel more I really did read it first my first taken it as a fireball [TS]

  I thought that meant he might move back to England and a lot of that was based [TS]

  on my recollection of that of a 2011 story in the London Times that said that [TS]

  while negotiating a new contract without bold I have wanted to put in you know be [TS]

  authorized to work from London or wherever he would live in England and [TS]

  that Tim Cook and whoever else it up orders I know you've got to stay here [TS]

  and that there was a source of conflict which in hindsight was the only one [TS]

  report of it and then it seems it's one of those things where it seems like [TS]

  there's a whole bunch of stories about it but every other story you can find [TS]

  about it is the London Times is reporting that blah blah blah Jony ive [TS]

  one in moving that there wasn't anybody else who said it [TS]

  their source for this was completely and I [TS]

  most certainly wasn't johnnie I and asking around over the last week it [TS]

  seems to me like that story was bullshit and was sort of a source of [TS]

  consternation at Apple at the time because they knew it was bullshit it was [TS]

  bullshit but they didn't want to say that it was bullshit just because [TS]

  they're up on it they don't talk about such things while at the same time as [TS]

  you initially it because it was a British paper was leaving I think that [TS]

  meet of influence people [TS]

  yeah and not moving back necessarily but like if you were to spend the summers [TS]

  there are three months that seemed perfectly logical to be given his yeah [TS]

  that's another factor in it the fact that it wasn't a UK paper the fact that [TS]

  it was you know was announced in a press release I forgot about I have since [TS]

  linked to a little yesterday under fire but I forgot that in 2003 obvi to Manian [TS]

  took a promotion whether you want to put quotes around it or not to a title Chief [TS]

  Software Technology Officer I think she's the STL I forgot about that even I [TS]

  just reread it and the story of it in becoming Steve Jobs which but that thing [TS]

  that I had forgotten was that the title started with chief I just somehow like [TS]

  the four letter CSTO like if they had promoted to chief technology officer [TS]

  just CTO I've I would have remembered that in a way that I didn't with Chief [TS]

  Software Technology Officer like somehow that sounded ceremonial to me right away [TS]

  and then even the description of it in the press release where Apple announced [TS]

  it sounded a little bit just really did it almost seemed almost definite that it [TS]

  was sort of stepping aside like inventing a title yes so I kind of I [TS]

  should have remembered it but I think in the back of my mind like subconsciously [TS]

  I did and that it also fueled my cuz it was you know that was 2003 [TS]

  and that was when Bertrand said let Soleil Soleil @ yeah I say star let's [TS]

  let her try [TS]

  sober trying got promoted to senior vice president of software engineering and [TS]

  reported directly to Steve Jobs which I really do think is sort of a key to the [TS]

  difference between today and going to CSTO and Jony ive going to chief design [TS]

  officer where'd that people who are getting promoted underneath him to take [TS]

  more responsibility still report directly to i've not to Tim Cook or just [TS]

  somebody else he was essentially nonessential you don't have a direct [TS]

  line of communication through a software it made my position jobs lately right [TS]

  and it actually kind of interesting to see if I can fish this up here this [TS]

  saved some hope the gist of it is as told in the becoming Steve Jobs that it [TS]

  wasn't necessarily that at the time he immediately that to be really wanted to [TS]

  like they use my way out the door he really just wanted to get away from the [TS]

  day-to-day stuff and kind of work on blue sky stuff but that it just did not [TS]

  work with the way Steve Jobs worked at the company so here's the passage from [TS]

  becoming steve Jobs was unquestionably a promotion but it turned out to be a job [TS]

  without much of a portfolio to Manian found himself with little concrete [TS]

  responsibility he felt out of the loop and realize that his new role would not [TS]

  work [TS]

  quote being a pseudo individual staff person working for Steve doesn't work [TS]

  because he already has all the answers he didn't like it when I would be in a [TS]

  meeting where he was reviewing a product and I would have an opinion he just [TS]

  didn't like it and he grew to not like that I could be a senior person like [TS]

  that without having day-to-day responsibilities to deliver something he [TS]

  says Tim Cook now Apple CEO says that he worried about to be mean leaving [TS]

  Stephen 2004 to figure out another challenge to keep the Brian software [TS]

  engineer at Apple Steve looked at me cook remembers and goes I agree he's [TS]

  really smart but he's decided he doesn't want to work I've never found in my [TS]

  whole life that you could mean someone who doesn't want to work hard to work [TS]

  hard [TS]

  another time as a regular part of it another time shortly after Steve had [TS]

  learned that demeaning it taking up golf Steve carp to cook that something was [TS]

  really a mess [TS]

  golf he plundered incredulously who has time for golf balls wouldn't even let [TS]

  people on board of directors [TS]

  well I've also heard that they used to a nice to have their off sites he wouldn't [TS]

  let them have it anywhere there is a golf course which is interesting because [TS]

  in the article as a strangely stage as it was they made sure to mention that [TS]

  johnnie I still had had things on his plate to do like the story designs like [TS]

  campus too and yeah which is a huge difference right and it's you know just [TS]

  an enormous is still even with this and with these lieutenants taking over sort [TS]

  of directed a responsibility for your design industrial design he still is [TS]

  spread pretty thin but I think he spread a little bit less than by administrator [TS]

  I think that's a that's the key thing we've seen recently too is that Apple if [TS]

  you look at what any responsible for that's that's almost an entire that is [TS]

  an entire company got its own marketing has got its own software development [TS]

  it's got it and they're bringing in people to sort of help him do that with [TS]

  marketing has always been stress relief in but they've got more people in there [TS]

  lately and it just seems like it's it's a little more sane than it used to be [TS]

  and responsibilities as they've grown the company didn't scale to account for [TS]

  that and the amount of work that the top of those those organizations that was [TS]

  just becoming ludicrous yeah [TS]

  so I think I have since concluded you know I mean who knows we'll see a couple [TS]

  years I think that this actually is another one of those cases where as [TS]

  weird as the story was where it came out and it's my guess is that weird this was [TS]

  sort of this is the way johnnie wanted to do it and so ok this is how they did [TS]

  it that it really is where they say it is it's a promotion it's a recognition [TS]

  maybe maybe almost like a bladed promotion where it's recognizing the [TS]

  authority he already wielded within the company and he's not going anywhere [TS]

  well that was interesting because he was there is at least three discrete [TS]

  reactions to the news when it first came out one was that this was johnnie I [TS]

  putting one foot out the door [TS]

  getting ready to wind down the other was that this was johnnie of consolidating [TS]

  power because it was an old quote from Steve Jobs where he said no one had more [TS]

  operational power at Apple besides himself and Jony ive even though they [TS]

  had a chief operating it shows sort of his position the company and then the [TS]

  start of the third one was like the Wall Street take where they're they're still [TS]

  upset the apple doesn't disclose johnnie I because he is a senior vice president [TS]

  with direct reports and certainly one of the top 10 paid his salary is not [TS]

  disclosed but now as a chief design officer few direct reports you can argue [TS]

  that it no longer needs to be me had I don't think so I don't know I mean who [TS]

  knows about that I know that I think I only tweeted about it but maybe I [TS]

  blogged about it but it it it has struck me as weird over the years when they [TS]

  disclose executive payment who's on the list who's not I carts had to be last [TS]

  year because her like this I guess you just call it lou but under a signing [TS]

  bonus but she got an enormous amount upfront I guess not her annual salary [TS]

  but she was paid so much in her first year because I guess signing bonus for [TS]

  taking the job that hurt as compensation had to be disclosed sounds complicated I [TS]

  read an article I forget who wrote it but they were saying that it's the top [TS]

  10 compensations on the team but they don't have policy-making positions then [TS]

  they're not included because they don't cares about it really does [TS]

  and you know my conclusion is really an and i dont wanna be my trying to be cute [TS]

  but I more or less if you just listen to Tim Cook's words in the internal memo [TS]

  announcing the deal describing what johnny is responsible for that he was [TS]

  responsible for hardware design and now its front bumper UI design and packaging [TS]

  and he's supervising the design of the headquarters and a retail in that New [TS]

  Yorker profile said he was doing he adds to it really is Steve Jobs level breath [TS]

  I don't quite think adds like marketing like TV spots and magazine but right [TS]

  like the videos for the Keno yeah so even though he's not on stage in the [TS]

  Keno because he did I really do think it's as simple as that he's just is not [TS]

  keen as to be a public speaker [TS]

  even though the few times he has done it he's done fine I think it's like he just [TS]

  enjoys it so little and there's so much crap that's involved that he'd rather [TS]

  not but instead his involvement in the presentation is literally supervising [TS]

  and if not editing you know with his own hand the videos and this seems to suit [TS]

  everyone's best interest because it it gets over the stuff that johnnie I [TS]

  didn't seem that happy to be doing which is the day-to-day managerial stuff but [TS]

  it also recognizes [TS]

  recognizing the job he was doing and that sort of this year's his future the [TS]

  company because you don't want him to either get border to feel like he's [TS]

  finished or want something different you want to keep him energized and engaged [TS]

  but at the same time it puts these two pillars underneath him so if anything [TS]

  does happen or or he decides to leave you you have a stable functional [TS]

  organization that can keep going and that's really yeah yeah exactly I do [TS]

  think that it makes a more sustainable organization now with that mean that [TS]

  they would have to appoint a new chief design officer afterwards I don't know [TS]

  yet exactly although I think that's coming we can maybe do is hold that [TS]

  thought I don't do it [TS]

  sponsored break here and we can we can talk about that the bottom line is I [TS]

  don't think johnnie I was going on I think this is sort of you know this is [TS]

  sort of a kind [TS]

  like making it official that johnnie I've and Tim Cook have a relationship [TS]

  like Tim and Steve Jobs did like where there are two leaders in this company [TS]

  and it's a little different this time because the other way the guy with you [TS]

  know right like it's it's a little different but somebody has to be CEO but [TS]

  exactly I think in a way that makes I have different from from jobs is I don't [TS]

  think I would ever want to BC I think part of this is that he's getting away [TS]

  from some of this stuff that is CEO and have to do some of this administrative [TS]

  stuff you know [TS]

  Jony ive has no interest in negotiating with CBS television to get them on a [TS]

  booty be right so it's you know it it just comes down to the personalities and [TS]

  the individual talent that they have but that he is as important to cook as coke [TS]

  was important to Steve Jobs yeah you need only matter which side is on top at [TS]

  any given time he projects that Apple has coming up like campus to in like [TS]

  project those are things that johnnie it seems really interested in which makes [TS]

  it unlikely that other than a better positioning of its project that's the [TS]

  way we can talk about that let me take a break down and thank our first sponsor [TS]

  and it is our good friends at fracture you guys know fracture longtime sponsor [TS]

  the show you guys keep their pictures so they keep coming back to sponsor more so [TS]

  keep doing it but if you haven't heard of it you need to be reminded fracture [TS]

  is a service you go to the website and you send your photos from any camera [TS]

  whatever you've taken with you pick a size could be small they've got real [TS]

  small want to fit on your desk could be big they got big 23 by 29 instance you [TS]

  can count on your wall [TS]

  you decide whether you want a rectangular or square up to you they've [TS]

  got all the sizes of the aspect ratios you go on they take your photos and they [TS]

  print them directly on glass right on the glass right on the surface and they [TS]

  look amazing they look like no other thing that I've ever seen [TS]

  they look so good that even no matter what the content of the photos when you [TS]

  hang them up on your wall and you have friends over family over people they see [TS]

  them out of the corner I and they say how did you do that there's like how did [TS]

  you do that aspect to it we're at first they might think it's a regular photo [TS]

  but then they realize its edge to edge and there is no frame around it and then [TS]

  they might think well maybe it's like like LCD type thing and then they [TS]

  realize that it's not it's not going it's a real picture just an artifact it [TS]

  its stunning and so it's one of those things that it's like I can tell you [TS]

  this because I haven't been around my house and I had people say wow how did [TS]

  you get that and then I go into the same shrill that I tell you about telling [TS]

  them in person you should go there and buy them yourself [TS]

  it it really you have to see it to believe it and it's one of the hardest [TS]

  things I think for them to get across because when you go to their website you [TS]

  don't get that there's no way to show you on a website a picture of a thing to [TS]

  show you what it really looks like when you're looking at a picture of a picture [TS]

  isn't the same thing is actually looking at the picture really really impressive [TS]

  and you can get started and really low price [TS]

  their prices are fantastic considering the quality of what you get [TS]

  taking pictures father's Day is coming up I keep saying it's a great great gift [TS]

  for people in your family right now as you listen to this you've got plenty of [TS]

  time to get stuff done from fathers day so go make a note of Dulles in the show [TS]

  go to fracture me.com frac T U R E [TS]

  me.com [TS]

  and remember this code daring favorable all one word during fireball use that [TS]

  code and you will save 15% off your order so I thanks to fracture go there [TS]

  get your get your dad your grandfather your husband some pictures from for [TS]

  Father's Day my thanks to them all right so the car that's an interesting thing [TS]

  thinking about in the context of johnnie I've been promoted to chief design [TS]

  officer because it's you think well that's just all industrial design but [TS]

  there's no I think that if Apple is going to do a car is absolutely going to [TS]

  be completely in the computer application of car designed like there's [TS]

  no way that is not get involved both UI design and industrial no I would not be [TS]

  surprised it the same kinds of Engineers [TS]

  other products it's no guarantee that is ever going to ship because I do thing [TS]

  and you know that thousand nose for every yes mantra some some of those nose [TS]

  come late [TS]

  talks about this you know that bed TV Justin shipper year after year after [TS]

  year 2010 was a great product right but there was there there was there where [TS]

  TVs and I think in hindsight poor Gene Munster but I do think that that's one [TS]

  of the reasons monster was so convinced and one of the things that analysts Wall [TS]

  Street analysts like him do is develop sources in the supply chain and 10 most [TS]

  accurate like mean he show [TS]

  Chico oh you know and and some of the stunningly accurate things that he's had [TS]

  in recent years I think clearly come from the supply chain you know that he's [TS]

  talking to me he for example nailed it on the screen sizes of the iPhone 6 in [TS]

  six-plus and I think it was because he had sources sharp and whoever else it's [TS]

  making the displays for those things I think monster figured out through supply [TS]

  chain that Apple was making TV prototypes and then just extreme know [TS]

  which is pretty you know that they weren't just things that Apple had made [TS]

  in the Jony ive lab which never comes [TS]

  you know nothing ever leaks out of there but they were in discussions with with [TS]

  manufacturers and wheels were starting to turn over there just to get things [TS]

  set up and he just took that to mean well then that's a sure thing because I [TS]

  think with most companies once you get to that point it's going to come out and [TS]

  see how it does is really different prototypes almost everything I can think [TS]

  about it or talked a lot about it on a website Apple has thought about it and [TS]

  investigators screen televisions all that's when they when they don't ship [TS]

  some things because they've made an informed decision based on actual [TS]

  experience with prototype products that they don't want to ship it and so you [TS]

  know there's no guarantee that a car is ever going to ship but I definitely you [TS]

  know god this terrible pun but I definitely think the way you look at it [TS]

  now I was looking at cars the other day and even within the same brand the [TS]

  interfaces are completely different from one models there is and that just to me [TS]

  says there's no vision for how the stuff should be done I definitely think so [TS]

  it's why I've seen that I don't I had my car since late 2006 so it's been awhile [TS]

  since I've shopper a car but I remember the last time I did and driving light [TS]

  two cars from the same brand and being just not that it was driving my decision [TS]

  as to what to buy but just absolutely rolling my eyes at the inconsistencies i [TS]

  I bought my last car right before the advent of entertainment system connected [TS]

  stuff where you can just plug your iPhone or Android phone into it [TS]

  so I went to my dealer and I said can I just upgrade to the next year's radio [TS]

  center and he said no by another car and that to me is one of those things I'll [TS]

  just thinks is ludicrous should be easy to update what runs on your car is it as [TS]

  to what runs on your phone right not that you would be able to you know like [TS]

  you to be able to get like a software update right that that's what you should [TS]

  be able to get for your car not that you should be able to take the actual [TS]

  computer at a certain level Apple is a hey you have to buy a new phone company [TS]

  but on another level [TS]

  you know there are some significant features that you get you know two years [TS]

  after buying your phone by upgrading ya think that this area is so far behind [TS]

  and carp lake are played was working on that years ago to ever to get to market [TS]

  and that shows I think the slowness of that sort of a process was gonna do that [TS]

  the way Tesla for example had to build up their their car process we're talking [TS]

  a years and years of experimentation nevermind release schedule it's it's on [TS]

  a much longer time scale but I've heard I saw its not my original analogy I [TS]

  don't know but that car play is to Apple's car what the rocker was to the [TS]

  iPhone even though the rocker has like one year before the car place to be is [TS]

  really interesting because it's part of this huge transition that Apple's [TS]

  undergoing where before we had all this polling place where you have to go to [TS]

  some other place to transition for a second and apples as discrete bundle as [TS]

  a binary you downloaded on your phone and you tap it in all the functionality [TS]

  would be in sight that and the same way WebKit is now HTTPS Everywhere doesn't [TS]

  really not abundance party anymore with iOS ate all the UIKit stuff is sort of [TS]

  an extensibility means that all a nap functionality is now everywhere you can [TS]

  share to Pinterest from a share extension you can use one pass reform [TS]

  action extension so the idea of those apps sort of been torn apart and not [TS]

  only that not only can I just pull the notification center down and you speak [TS]

  out there without going to the app I can now shoot out to my Apple water shoot [TS]

  out to my car is like no Marcos [TS]

  forecast is running on cars now and I think that fundamentally changes what it [TS]

  what it means to be software I think our play with sort of things Apple was doing [TS]

  to experiment with what that what that's going to be going forward it's now but [TS]

  they're just trying to decide where to go to next week to give you a pic and [TS]

  I'll do the other we could do go to Google i/o which is past tense sort of I [TS]

  guess it's technically like wrapping up its second day right now or we could go [TS]

  to WWE see how do we do the past first where do we go [TS]

  yes and will do WABC expectations afterwards so Google i/o keynote [TS]

  yesterday seemed to run about seven hours they were good this year I think [TS]

  last year when I ever this year long [TS]

  announced a lot some of it you know pretty interesting to me I guess I guess [TS]

  maybe it was a little more focused than usual he was restrained and I remember [TS]

  some years where it was just almost seemed like every five minutes early new [TS]

  initiative or API or something and you never hear about them again and this [TS]

  year and stuff that they've truly expect to ship I fear and not that Apple [TS]

  invented only talking about stuff the drill ship but I think it's a little [TS]

  more happily direction so much more and people get really upset the stuff but it [TS]

  had a much more Apple sort of sensibility to it especially with the [TS]

  new Android features and you could see this over time were originally to get [TS]

  market share Google had to make everything open and marketed as open as [TS]

  possible but now from Google Play services to store reviews to a lot of [TS]

  the programs that they're doing they they need to exert a certain amount of [TS]

  control just who dis to improve the experience and it looks like they're [TS]

  doing that again with this [TS]

  yeah I mean and and there's a lot of little things but one of those things [TS]

  that I noticed is when they talked about with its a program that to me is very [TS]

  interesting but to me it to my knowledge hasn't taken off yet but I think has a [TS]

  good chance to his Android one which is their version of Android that is meant [TS]

  for foreign quote developing countries but it's for people who don't have who [TS]

  cannot afford five or six hundred dollar and so what if they can only afford $100 [TS]

  phone or $125 phone how good can you make that today in 2015 and the thing [TS]

  that struck me about that as being a polite not that Apple is going after [TS]

  that market has any product that they don't there is no iPhone that targeted [TS]

  at them but the way that its iPhone app alike to me is that it's not a here's a [TS]

  version of Android that runs on lower power devices it's a a whole thing like [TS]

  a device certification program in the only way you get it if you go along with [TS]

  them and if you do your Google has Apple style control of the OS where you get [TS]

  the latest you know you're getting Android [TS]

  lollipop and then you'll get the Android update when it comes out because the [TS]

  only way to participate in this as an OEM is to go along with Google said [TS]

  there is a lot to unpack for me and one thing that I maybe everyone knew this [TS]

  but me going into this but when starting their their keynotes by reaffirming [TS]

  their corporate mantra and looked like the moral compass about you talk about [TS]

  Apple's Northstar be making great products and Google needs to be done [TS]

  don't be evil but more more often now they're saying your Google is your [TS]

  purpose is to organize the world's data and make it easily accessible to [TS]

  everybody and once they said that I started watching the entire keynote [TS]

  through that lens and the thing like the optimistic music while Google is using [TS]

  all this money that they make to bring technology whether internet in balloons [TS]

  or low-cost phones to everybody but then the cynic in me was saying that if they [TS]

  really want to collect all the world data they need to have everybody in the [TS]

  world giving them their data [TS]

  and then you look at everything they announce all these services especially [TS]

  when they're really cool are sort of what you feed the drugs you give [TS]

  somebody said they'll go and feed the beast for you and the profound [TS]

  difference between Apple wanting to make great products so that they can sell [TS]

  them at a high margin and make a good experience by the next product where [TS]

  Google has to make these services that are so good that you be willing to give [TS]

  them your data on an ongoing basis and it's it's sort of a similar similar [TS]

  strategy you can argue how successfully twenties but they're both phenomenally [TS]

  successful but so different from each other [TS]

  yeah and it's you know the cynic in me always asks and then you know with any [TS]

  company but you know how are they going to make money on this how do they think [TS]

  they're gonna make money on this and with a lot of their stuff it's very [TS]

  dubious to me like with the whole internet balloons thing and it to me [TS]

  than the honest way to make money I would be to somehow take a share of what [TS]

  they're charging people even if it's you know compared to light us' carriers even [TS]

  if people there are only paying a few dollars a month for self-service you [TS]

  know by taking a share of that and they're making money [TS]

  the cynical way to do it would be part of the Terms of Service for getting [TS]

  internet service through the Google balloons is a Google gets to see an [TS]

  index all of the traffic going that reminded me of a part of this is I [TS]

  remember a few years ago there was a Google ad about a father setting up some [TS]

  kind of Google account in a gmail account for his baby and sorry to [TS]

  document the baby's life and there was pushed back on that saying how can you [TS]

  try to encourage people to put their children's data in there but now we live [TS]

  in a time where they just give Google accounts to schools and they say that [TS]

  they're not going to use that data I take them at their word but I used to [TS]

  work in advanced analytics in the actual data is not always that important as the [TS]

  vast quantities of data there's all sorts of patterns and behaviors market [TS]

  basket and trends in and things that you can find that data that's immensely [TS]

  valuable and Google showed that with things like the machine learning and the [TS]

  neural networks on how their driverless cars can now start picking out other [TS]

  cars and pedestrians because they're committing enough data and enough [TS]

  patterns and behaviors [TS]

  to understand that and that that's going to be immensely valuable to them so even [TS]

  if there's no direct return on a business unit nature for things like the [TS]

  balloons all that stuff we'll feed their core business which is collecting and [TS]

  making use of all that data [TS]

  well the question now is where do you you know that thing about web search is [TS]

  that there is a place very obvious place to show that which is right there at the [TS]

  top of the results and it's you know I I think they say websearch you know search [TS]

  advertising is ninety percent of Google's remains ninety percent of [TS]

  Google's revenue I think they really read it all comes down to that top spot [TS]

  and the results and in some sense ok simply giving internet people around the [TS]

  world through the blue and they don't need to make any money from the balloons [TS]

  because these people are going to search on Google and they're gonna see those [TS]

  ads in a result I see that as as much diminishing returns in just for the [TS]

  simple reason that if you're in an impoverished country they had those [TS]

  Abused just cannot be that valuable and that you're chasing instead of chasing [TS]

  pennies you're chasing fractions of a penny and you you know it's not that it [TS]

  means that Google's going anywhere but it means that it's not I just don't see [TS]

  how that's a serious source of any kind of growth yeah I think that's a lot to [TS]

  do with why you see them [TS]

  branching out and again my old job was doing this analytics stuff and it wasn't [TS]

  it wasn't really about search other ways of making huge amounts of money for [TS]

  example if you go into a quicky Mart and you buy coke Coke has no idea that you [TS]

  bought it but the Quickie Mart does and if you have a company that can go in and [TS]

  take that information you can sell that back to you can sell pepsi and if they [TS]

  bought Doritos with it you can then sell that information to those companies use [TS]

  it when they decide where they're going to put their products on shelves what [TS]

  combinations or what sales or all of us immensely valuable to companies who want [TS]

  to get into these emerging markets and Apple and other companies have talked [TS]

  about the value of the BRIC countries but especially China's growing now [TS]

  russia now [TS]

  Brazil's growing on their gonna have huge economies I think having actionable [TS]

  intelligence economies [TS]

  and if Google is one brokering all that and that makes Google as opposed to [TS]

  Facebook also doing emerging market internet initiatives it gives them a [TS]

  better position [TS]

  my understanding is that the Quickie Mart in particular buzz Cola has [TS]

  exclusive I think that's true they don't even need to do any analytics gunned [TS]

  down on goal I just think that everybody some people think that you're not paying [TS]

  for this stuff and whether you're paying with money or with time or with a [TS]

  tension with data you're always paying and you just have to be to understand [TS]

  the costs that your data is is valuable like money is valuable and whether it's [TS]

  worth it to me so speaking of paying for stuff that lead to me directly to one of [TS]

  the top products that they announced that I owe this week that really caught [TS]

  my attention was Google photos so Google photos is pretty much Google's version [TS]

  iCloud photo library and I don't mean that I I wrote that I don't mean in the [TS]

  sense that I think they copied it I think it was inevitable for both [TS]

  companies to do this the basic idea was so obvious that they were both going to [TS]

  do it and it just so happened that you know Apple beat them to it it feels like [TS]

  the right solution yeah which is basically you sign up you have all of [TS]

  your devices where you deal with photos signed in and then all of your photos go [TS]

  to through one cloud library and are therefore available on all your devices [TS]

  and to save space that you don't have once you have that and if the truth is [TS]

  in the cloud meaning your true libraries the one that's in here cloud account [TS]

  then your devices don't have to have all of your photos and if you have 32 [TS]

  gigabytes photos and videos in your personal library you only need a [TS]

  fraction of them on your device at any time in the rest cannot be represented [TS]

  by truly tiny thumbnails and then drawn down from the cloud [TS]

  on demand when you open them you know to call that a long time ago called near [TS]

  line where you had all the frequently high-value data access data rate on the [TS]

  on the device because you needed access at all the time it had to be fast but [TS]

  everything else was stored just a step away on much cheaper storage much bigger [TS]

  capacity and you just get it when you need it was very infrequent that you [TS]

  actually need it and this is the same as all the photos were taken recently that [TS]

  are your favorites all the ones that you access all the time [TS]

  artists right there in your device to help them in their they're the ones who [TS]

  maybe haven't looked at in three years [TS]

  won't look at very often if you have to tap that it takes a second to download [TS]

  nobody really cares so they have to but the big difference to me the fundamental [TS]

  differences that they're saying unlimited storage for all of you as many [TS]

  photos and videos as you want with the asterisk on unlimited being that they [TS]

  re- compressor photos and high you know in other words and then they're not [TS]

  quite I i dont maybe some others it take them but in other words they are using [TS]

  Jake jpg recompression two-story good enough [TS]

  versions of your photos up to sixteen megabytes you can pay for something [TS]

  original but I think even then it's limited to 16 megabytes I could be wrong [TS]

  I wasn't sure it sounded like you willing to pay for the story just got [TS]

  your but they didn't say anything about right you know how stressed yes which [TS]

  you know kind of May is one of those leg in a difference between Apple customers [TS]

  and Google customers and I'm sure yes I'm absolutely sure that there are some [TS]

  pro photographers to shoot everything and raw using some of the best cameras [TS]

  on earth who also are Android users no doubt about it but I think the truth is [TS]

  that most professional photographers are probably Apple customers and probably [TS]

  have iPhones and care about things like that in a way that Android users don't [TS]

  or is it something that they will announce in the course of the product [TS]

  right and of course all of this stuff can go on but the pricing difference is [TS]

  definitely different you know it's it's pretty easy and in fact depending on you [TS]

  know how long you been shooting digital photography photographs it might be [TS]

  likely from those people that they're all their complete collection of digital [TS]

  photographs just from their phone but you know everything they've taken for [TS]

  the last ten years or so is already bigger than the free storage tier that [TS]

  apple offers whereas Google's is it's free for however many you want with that [TS]

  caveat that they're going to wreak impress them but to what they claim to [TS]

  be still a very high level and are david markin pointed this out but again this [TS]

  is fine if you want you happy paying data because the Terms of Service are [TS]

  kinda nebulous as to what they can do it and I don't think they're going to do [TS]

  anything wrong with it a lot of it is always just covering your ass servers or [TS]

  do something else and you want to be sued when you do the course of your [TS]

  business but with Apple you know no ones gonna show you an adnexal that photo [TS]

  your photos ever gonna be used as an ad is currently being run and they're not [TS]

  gonna take when you do facials cans they're not gonna say oh you know this [TS]

  is a photo John Gruber now I know John Cooper looks like it propagates across [TS]

  the system where with Google you might not care about that but again you should [TS]

  and I'm not saying that Apple could reduce prices it is Google subsidizing [TS]

  it based on their business model where Apple's business model is not being used [TS]

  to subsidize one of the reasons I don't use gmail is I don't like the idea of [TS]

  ads next to me and I really like the idea of context and serve ads next to my [TS]

  email and maybe that's just cuz I'm funny funny daddy who's been using email [TS]

  since the terminal days but it's like email to me is very personal and I just [TS]

  bothers me so Bradley Horowitz using Apple's or Google's vice president for [TS]

  photos streaming and something else [TS]

  pretty interesting title very specific [TS]

  but who's in charge of Google photos had an interesting interview with Steven [TS]

  Levy yesterday at at Stevens back channel and he his analogy which I found [TS]

  pretty compelling was that Google photos is Gmail for your photos but then the [TS]

  flip side of that is what you just said while way your Gmail as ads next year [TS]

  photos are you going to if you have photos of your family at disney world [TS]

  are you gonna get ads for Universal Orlando next to those photos I would [TS]

  find that I would find that extremely bothersome [TS]

  photos you can click to identify people's faces Google looks like they're [TS]

  doing that automatically unless again to see their machine learning system and I [TS]

  don't know if that bothers me or not that there's a lot of things along this [TS]

  path that I got the Nexus 5 last year try to get the new Nexus phone every [TS]

  year and it turned it on it that you want to use Google now reminds me of [TS]

  Jarvis and the Ironmen I want to use that and the first thing it said is can [TS]

  we access your web history and I said no one will then you can't use Google now [TS]

  and that's technically not true that a lot they can do for me without having to [TS]

  have access to my web history and they might have changed that since I haven't [TS]

  looked again but that that to me what they've because the price of that [TS]

  service was too high and again I i consider paying what they do the same [TS]

  thing as paying money so I don't get that service now I understand why people [TS]

  would be reticent and by all means if you think it's a fantastic service it [TS]

  looks terrific you're not bothered by this at all you know great but i think [TS]

  is worth at least considering the cost so here's the storage pricing for iCloud [TS]

  and add this is a as of May 29th who knows we might get some new storage [TS]

  pricing in two weeks I don't know [TS]

  but it and delightfully so the dollar amounts are identical in USA and [TS]

  Canadian dollars so no matter no matter which means you're thinking of here's [TS]

  what we pay 20 gigabytes Japan dollar-a-month 200 gigabytes for bucks a [TS]

  month 500 is 10 bucks a month in a terabyte this story just 20 bucks a [TS]

  month so to me that you know not bad [TS]

  20 gigabytes is very possibly too small for an awful lot of people [TS]

  200 gigabytes is probably enough for just about everybody and it's four [TS]

  dollars a month which is not that bad but it's you know you know let's round [TS]

  up its 50 bucks a year and so Apple is saying 50 bucks a year and Google is [TS]

  saying nothing that's a difference I'm not saying that's going to draw people [TS]

  to it but it's you know it I pay for the plan right now in its absolute [TS]

  difference and also its if you're on that 45 gigabyte plan it's not just [TS]

  photos all your backups are in there as well a lot of your other data that space [TS]

  as well and if you look at what your Amazon s3 storage examples using Amazon [TS]

  and Asia I believe taxes for the stuff you you pay for it you pay for the [TS]

  stories that you use not an unheard-of model but I think you know Apple selling [TS]

  these devices they make a lot of money out these devices are probably a [TS]

  compelling value at customers if you said you bought you bought a 64 gigabyte [TS]

  devices starting officer for it but at least you have enough to back up the [TS]

  content of that yeah I wonder you know president presumably Apple is isn't [TS]

  behaving like with the standard s3 play whenever I L areas if any cuties said [TS]

  set up like just like signed in thats just a regular bill every month there's [TS]

  a pile of paper bills every single I bite of data [TS]

  presumably Apple has a very special deal with Amazon for their use of s3 so who [TS]

  knows what they're paying and how how close but it would be curious to know [TS]

  how close as a company that is this is not our core competencies so we're gonna [TS]

  go out for storage and some of these you know stored some of these services to [TS]

  Amazon with s3 and Microsoft with Thatcher and even given our cloud and [TS]

  the size of the offer we can make and are you know Apple's famous negotiating [TS]

  acumen even so that's all it is presumed that they've gotten very good favorable [TS]

  rates from both Amazon and Microsoft will be interesting to know how that [TS]

  compares to Google's ability to do it completely internally in terms of cost [TS]

  and where like maps it's hard to make that like how much does it you know is [TS]

  there a significant difference in cost per typical user who says okay yes go [TS]

  ahead and store my entire photo library on your service what is that average out [TS]

  to for a typical user for Apple using s3 in and who knows what else and Google [TS]

  doing it completely internally and I think that would be interesting I be [TS]

  extraordinarily difficult to figure this out because I think you know top secret [TS]

  information for both companies I think it would benefit in the long run [TS]

  tremendous product think it solves the problem a really good way and cameras we [TS]

  know we're incredibly important especially nice upgrade cycles new [TS]

  cameras drive significant upgrades but if you always have friction people feel [TS]

  they don't use it or they feel it's too expensive they're all gonna hit that [TS]

  wall where they just they can take a photo they want to take it to delete [TS]

  something else and that reduces the experience and it's just one more piece [TS]

  of fiction that they could probably use their resources to overcome [TS]

  let me take a break here and thank our next sponsor and it's our good friends [TS]

  at Warby Parker will be Parker is a new concept in I where they were founded [TS]

  with a simple but lofty objective to create but equality classically crafted [TS]

  I we're at revolutionary price point new pair of prescription glasses is [TS]

  typically pretty expensive hundreds of dollars their ideas they could do it and [TS]

  and get them to start in ninety five bucks so what do you do you go to their [TS]

  website you go to Warby Parker to come and they have a whole bunch of [TS]

  eyeglasses right there look from and you can filter the view you can look at all [TS]

  the ones that if you're just looking at women's prescription eyewear you can [TS]

  just look at those if you're just looking at men's sunglasses you can just [TS]

  look at those you can filter the way you want you can search for certain shapes [TS]

  like if you know you really want to look for rectangular frames you can filter on [TS]

  that and but here's what you do you think I say this with their mattresses [TS]

  and pillows and also how can you buy this stuff online classes are so [TS]

  personal and your face and you never know you think I hey I like these [TS]

  glasses glasses and then you try them on in the store and you look terrible [TS]

  do you sign up and for free they you pick the five that you like the best and [TS]

  they just send them to you for free you know not with prescription lenses they [TS]

  just send them to you with no clear lenses you take them out you try them on [TS]

  you look in the mirror take a selfie ask your friends your significant other yes [TS]

  them how do I look which one you like and whichever ones you like if you're [TS]

  the one you like if there's two you like whichever one you like you send them all [TS]

  back two or three days later and you go back to the website and say well here is [TS]

  that I know I tried these on I want these frames and you give me a [TS]

  prescription from your doctor and Mike couple of days later [TS]

  whom you've got a brand new set of prescription glasses 95 bucks [TS]

  they don't up sell you on stuff like antireflective coating or using high [TS]

  index lenses high index lenses just a fancy way of saying hey if your eyes are [TS]

  kinda bad they high index lenses less the lenses still be relatively thin as [TS]

  opposed to pick you want high index lenses because otherwise you think they [TS]

  did get you get all that included stuff you do have to pay more for would-be [TS]

  progressives that if you know you need a reading lines if you're older and you [TS]

  need regular lenders nearsighted lenses at the top and bifocals at the bottom so [TS]

  they start at $295 which is a lot more than the regular ones but it's way less [TS]

  than you pay for good progressives most I workshops I just bought a new pair of [TS]

  this seriously I mean this is just coincidence that the podcast time is set [TS]

  I just bought a new pair of a week ago because with all this nonsense I'm going [TS]

  through with you know with my eye I needed a new prescription from my old [TS]

  glasses prescription in left eye was no longer relevant so I got a new pair of [TS]

  bottoms from Warby Parker showed up way in advance of what they promised they [TS]

  said like a home in 10 days and like four days later boom there they were and [TS]

  they look pretty cool [TS]

  95 bucks and one of the reasons I was excited about it is that there's a good [TS]

  chance with the stuff I'm going through that we even within a few months I might [TS]

  need a new prescription so I'm not even out there much money if these glasses on [TS]

  the last three or four months before I need a different prescription in my left [TS]

  eye [TS]

  money on 95 bucks which is absolutely great really really cool stuff now [TS]

  here's one last thing I want to tell you about them is that they do things that i [TS]

  think is amazing so there's people all around the world who cannot afford [TS]

  prescription glasses I cannot even imagine what that's like to need and to [TS]

  need prescription glasses and not be able to have them and so what they do is [TS]

  every time you place an order for prescription glasses they make available [TS]

  to people around the world who can afford them [TS]

  pair of prescription glasses so in addition to the fact that you're only [TS]

  paying 95 bucks for cool glasses that come quickly and a wide variety of [TS]

  styles are also doing something good for somebody else in the world who needs a [TS]

  pair of glasses so really hard to beat that so if you're in the market for [TS]

  glasses prescription sunglasses or prescription sunglasses go check them [TS]

  out [TS]

  really can't recommend them enough Warby Parker dot com slash the talk show and [TS]

  don't know you came from the show so my thanks to them what else from anything [TS]

  else [TS]

  yeah the Google now movements and the end result was interesting but a lot of [TS]

  them some of the Google now in the on tap stuff which sadly doesn't mean but [TS]

  the but the stuff about that is what makes me so interesting Google is that [TS]

  it's trying to make these better contextual engines where they can [TS]

  present you already know that if you have a slight coming as they read it off [TS]

  your email to present you with the boarding pass for that flight but now [TS]

  they want to start doing it when your locations in areas that they haven't [TS]

  explored so far and this is an area that Apple hasn't wanted to win two with [TS]

  series gets a lot of data from Siri and for a while the they just did not want [TS]

  to mingle or or at or act on your data on their servers their privacy lines but [TS]

  now with be proactive stuff that mark fuhrman was [TS]

  reporting on last week it sounds like maybe that's changing at Apple makes me [TS]

  wonder what would a service like Google now or like on top would be to Apple's [TS]

  strong privacy securities yeah we'll just take a time out here so young young [TS]

  mark Gurman overit 9 to 5 Mac has has been on a run like no one else had [TS]

  talked to young young Mark Harmon but he seems to have uncovered about 90 to 95 [TS]

  percent of what is publicly been revealed about coming out I do think [TS]

  that's an interesting direction for Apple and I feel like I could Apple and [TS]

  Google in particular that day each depending on the nature of their [TS]

  companies get ahead of each other in certain ways and then the other catches [TS]

  up and you know sometimes we can say well the one is copying the other but on [TS]

  the other hand it's not even about copying its really just like it's [TS]

  inevitable that they're both gonna go in that direction and it can go from little [TS]

  things like the copy and paste pop up you know you see how to select text and [TS]

  how to copy and paste it which you know I didn't have in the first few revs [TS]

  famously you like you couldn't copy and paste and then but then when they got it [TS]

  they nailed it and it's like this is the way to copy and paste on a touch screen [TS]

  and Android experimented with a whole bunch of things and all of them quite [TS]

  frankly in my opinion just really really stunk it was one of the areas where [TS]

  Android was just it's just one of those things that drive me nuts about every [TS]

  time I tried it and then coming up and AndroidTM they've got what's effectively [TS]

  Iowa style copy and paste other things that you know same thing and Wright had [TS]

  it first where you stripe down from the top of the screen and you see a list of [TS]

  your notifications and they had that for like two years before iOS [TS]

  a notification center and guess what you swipe down from the top of your screen [TS]

  notification so it's not like it's a one-way street I think that this sort of [TS]

  contextually aware the phone knows some stuff about walk where you are what you [TS]

  do if you know where you are on a daily basis and can do smart things about it [TS]

  I think it's okay it does every time I hear them say neural network or machine [TS]

  learning I do think the Terminator because you know it's one of those [TS]

  things where you are where those movies sent to us as warnings and i'm i'm [TS]

  saying that sounds paranoid but you never know how far the stock is gonna [TS]

  get and how much I want them to know about me [TS]

  goes back to the same privacy discussion about Google now previously Saiid I [TS]

  would love to have Jarvis in my house but when I start thinking about it is [TS]

  just as scary as it is attractive so I'm I'm conflicted about this technology but [TS]

  I think it does have absolute value and if you don't like it I would I would [TS]

  hope that a company like Apple and eventually Google would let you just use [TS]

  the functionality that Siri provides today what has minimal knowledge of you [TS]

  and neither does have its own device knowledge not doing any big data [TS]

  gathering operations but for people who do want that think that providing that [TS]

  data to get that service is a tremendous the offer them but I think Apple [TS]

  providing it makes all of Iowa's more valuable i find some of the stuff and [TS]

  government report on to be a little confusing because like is one of the [TS]

  things he says it to begin with proactive will become a new layer within [TS]

  the iOS operating system replacing the pull-down spotlight menu currently found [TS]

  on the island home screen and you know again I don't know where his sources I [TS]

  don't know anything about this I you know completely in the dark never heard [TS]

  anything about but that doesn't make any sense to me because that screen is not [TS]

  part of the OS like the two layers of the OS that go from top to bottom is [TS]

  control center from the bottom and notification center from the top and the [TS]

  reason those I call them layers of the OS is you can get them from anywhere [TS]

  whereas to me what he's talking about is just part of you know to use the [TS]

  internal ago as part of springboard it's only when you're on the home screen and [TS]

  it doesn't make any sense to me that doesn't make any sense to me that this [TS]

  feature wouldn't be available everywhere to me it would only make sense in the [TS]

  hold down the home button pierced Syria takes over the whole screen but I don't [TS]

  know I think one of the things that I don't know what he's describing or not [TS]

  but previously Apple's a lot of really cool things and part of those were [TS]

  surfaced in Syria Syrie could do a lot of interesting search you can compare [TS]

  Apple or Google stock get me these sports results and you could do a lot of [TS]

  interesting searches in spotlight especially recently they made major [TS]

  changes to both syria spotlight recently and spotlight to get you a bunch of [TS]

  information including Wikipedia and maps of interest but an app store search they [TS]

  were all different like some did nearest neighbor and some didn't some did some [TS]

  didn't care if you misspelled words and some did it and so in spite of having [TS]

  all these great technologies they they weren't merge together they didn't they [TS]

  weren't better than the sum of the parts I think part of what this is is taking [TS]

  the engine that's being built into spotlight in the engine that's in Serie [TS]

  A sort of making something that is better than each of those individually [TS]

  and Syria is sort of an ancillary interface layer doesn't replace it [TS]

  doesn't replace the multi-touch interface but it's there whenever you [TS]

  that makes sense what do you think about this this bothers me but maybe I'm just [TS]

  not aware the lingo but it bothers this whole trend towards calling and machine [TS]

  learning bothers me because to me it's just a I we already have a term for it [TS]

  and my my my hunch is that computer science world that talked about AI for [TS]

  so long and for so many decades and you know famously you know that by 2001 we'd [TS]

  have a computer you could just do you know how you could just talk to you so [TS]

  cute [TS]

  famously computer scientists as a whole were vastly over optimistic in terms of [TS]

  when we would get to like talk to a computer and hold a conversation with [TS]

  them and that it burned out the term and so we come up with this new thing called [TS]

  machine learning that is it doesn't you know it's two different words but it was [TS]

  just you know a different branch Ave I do so is drying up where they had that [TS]

  but Larry in Jihad and made a new commandant making machine so it's been a [TS]

  part of our culture growing up and I by no means have any knowledge but it does [TS]

  it does seem like there is this [TS]

  this recognition is coming out that we're getting smart objects but they're [TS]

  not smart way I aisa kuch idea makes the home button smart to AC remix the [TS]

  microphone smart the way connect makes the camera smart but it's not smart and [TS]

  the Terminator matrix way it's just it's useful and I wonder if if this is just [TS]

  talking with doing it no matter where he was a realization that we can't make [TS]

  them think like us we gotta go sort of part of the way there and this is a [TS]

  using machine learning as distinct from a lie because it's not artificially [TS]

  intelligent in the way we always imagined it is just a machine learning [TS]

  to recognize context specific areas yeah one of the examples that google gave it [TS]

  does seem and this is one of those areas where it seems like Google is not just [TS]

  about all that ahead of everybody but definitely ahead of Apple is in the [TS]

  aforementioned Google photos project they're doing more samples been doing [TS]

  face recognition for four years and you know what they're doing a lot more [TS]

  they're doing like recognizing when a picture was of a snowfall and saying I [TS]

  mean who now does this work I don't know but that they're saying that you know [TS]

  you can say I remember that snowfall back in 2010 and you could search for [TS]

  snow in 2010 and come up with the photos you took of you know snow piled on your [TS]

  car [TS]

  whatever which is really pretty cool and it but it also seems believable it seems [TS]

  like WoW but that's really complex and really interesting how they got there [TS]

  but I kind of believe it if they can do face recognition why can't they do this [TS]

  is you know a snowy scene shortly when they told us that Syria would get better [TS]

  with more people use it all of these technologies ungodly amounts of data [TS]

  it's part of why I think Google really want to get us to give it more data [TS]

  because who knows how much it needs to consume us know understand and recognize [TS]

  know that movie ex machina just came out they have a guy there who sort of a sort [TS]

  of like the Google company in that universe and in order to make his AI he [TS]

  he had every phone in the world to read every facial feature in the world said [TS]

  he'd have enough data to reproduce them and that was the volume that he needed [TS]

  and always seemed to me like when you start doing facial recognition or snow [TS]

  you have driverless cars the amount of raw data you need to get to what the car [TS]

  needs where the photo needs to make the machine understand it is just a men's [TS]

  yeah I can totally see that anything else I think that was all the really [TS]

  coming there is the cardboard stuff where they have like when Facebook [TS]

  bought oculus because it's always been itching to get on a computer I can have [TS]

  Facebook or Google open in one little window but then switch quickly on a [TS]

  phone it in one lap but I can switch quickly but once it's Fearne on your [TS]

  face I don't know how to quit out of oculus when it's dropped my head or out [TS]

  of cardboard when it stopped my face what seems like that sort of the [TS]

  complete all encompassing presence that they've always wanted you have you ever [TS]

  used cardboard I haven't abused oculus a couple times and I've used Google glass [TS]

  but haven't used cardboard I worried not gonna be able to use it I'm worried that [TS]

  my situation that may be the time rice can see 3d is over but we'll see but it [TS]

  definitely seems interesting and I had to say like I was watching the keynote [TS]

  early to watch some of the Google i/o keynote [TS]

  and I was watching on the TV in my son of gun on school and he was like manna [TS]

  stuff this morning and then when that part kicked in he was like wait this is [TS]

  pretty cool so I don't know how kind of you know when they first came out of the [TS]

  last year I thought it was kind of janky but just because they only one they had [TS]

  was this seriously simple stupid cardboard thing but I don't know seems [TS]

  pretty interesting to be able to do it I don't know but you raise a good point [TS]

  because this is one of the first interfaces is always going to be [TS]

  accessibility issues but this is one of his first interfaces where there's a [TS]

  tremendous amount of population can't watch 3d movies because they're just not [TS]

  comfortable with their eyes converging in focusing on different planes and they [TS]

  get vertigo where they get seasick and they're trying to fix these but there [TS]

  will always be a large amount of of people who will not be able to use it as [TS]

  an interface to me [TS]

  investing in it that heavily as interesting despite even before I had [TS]

  this great nation had a vision problems even before that even when I saw 20 2009 [TS]

  both eyes a distance I've never enjoyed a 3d movie other than like a short one [TS]

  at like Disney you go in and out in five minutes and it's like wow that was [TS]

  pretty cool and I'll tell you what it is for me is I go and see it 3d movie and I [TS]

  could I can see the 3d and it's like i don't have any problems with what do you [TS]

  call it some people have trouble seeing the 3d but I would come out of the movie [TS]

  and and I will realize I don't remember the second half [TS]

  gotta be like honest to god don't remember what the hell happened there [TS]

  like i remember i saw perfect example is up I saw Pixar's Up 3d for the first [TS]

  time and I came out thinking hey that was pretty good and then I realized I [TS]

  had a really the whole thing once once the kid was in the house I really don't [TS]

  remember ever say there is some kind of remembered vividly as the old guy who [TS]

  let the dogs but it was like really could not summarize the plot like I have [TS]

  to spend so much time concentrating on the 3d that I i cannot just sit back and [TS]

  watch the movie and then when I watched up the second time [TS]

  in 2d I was so much more impressed with the movie I was like wow this is so [TS]

  clever this is a typical Pixar movie where every single scene is good [TS]

  every line is worth you know every line of dialogue is worth it it's like I just [TS]

  didn't have that pressure I had the same accident about 380 alt run and the fight [TS]

  scenes and adjustable to me was so much visual information i had very little [TS]

  idea what was happening when I went back inside until I haven't seen any of my [TS]

  son has and tells me that is that I'm an idiot for not trying to take a break [TS]

  here and thank our next sponsor and these guys it have been longtime friends [TS]

  of the show [TS]

  haven't been with us for a while happy to have him back and its mail route [TS]

  peres how would you pronounce [TS]

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  well either way and may I borrow ute you know you want protecting your e-mail [TS]

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  mail route want you to feel this joy there's no hardware or software to [TS]

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  you don't go on your server and around mile route simply received your mail [TS]

  sorts it and then delivers only clean email to your mailbox so what you do [TS]

  sorts it and then delivers only clean email to your mailbox so what you do [TS]

  you go and sort of like a DNS type thing you go in and change DNS records your MX [TS]

  records from me said that your e-mail for your server that you control goes [TS]

  through mail route first they don't post your EMAIL they're not an email hosting [TS]

  thing all they do is they mail from the outside world comes through them first [TS]

  they filter it and then it goes on from mail route to your server so you're not [TS]

  giving up control of your server if you an email admin or 90 pro they're not [TS]

  asking you to let them host your email service they're just saying bill to your [TS]

  mail through them first [TS]

  this is all they do these guys they're like like the world's preeminent like [TS]

  email experts-- all they do is email and it really works a charm [TS]

  it just removes all the Crofton your life and then your server only has to [TS]

  deal with the good email they have tons of features API's anything you want you [TS]

  know they're nerds you can set up very simply and just have to say just hate [TS]

  just built in my spam in the crab and give me the rest you want to customize [TS]

  it they've got everything you'd want to do to customize it if you are in charge [TS]

  of I T at your company and stuff like that really really really encourage you [TS]

  to check them out [TS]

  it is a great service [TS]

  and a whole bunch of people who have signed up for this and I haven't heard a [TS]

  single bad word about mail route so here's what you do go to mail route [TS]

  dotnet mail route dotnet / the talk show and you get a free trial so you can try [TS]

  it out and if you don't like it then you just change your MX records back to [TS]

  pointing it directly your mail server easy to change back you don't have to [TS]

  like copy all your email you not copy or email that you just change the MX record [TS]

  all the senior back to where you can undo the free trial at any time if you [TS]

  don't like it but setup setup the free trial start filtering emails with them [TS]

  and use tax debt / the talk show and you'll get 10% off not for the first [TS]

  month but forever for the lifetime of your account you'll save 10% just for [TS]

  being smart enough to try mail route and smart enough to listen to the talk show [TS]

  my thanks to them check out my lap and they all said yea so WYD see what do you [TS]

  think is coming up I think I was gonna stick with I S 90 S ten-point 11 I think [TS]

  we'll see the new Apple TV gets more word on home kit out he might come with [TS]

  the game store in App Store those are probably be the big stuff yeah I am [TS]

  surprised to hear this but so at the code conference this week Jeff Williams [TS]

  was you know this is a conference that Steve this is what mossberg Kara Swisher [TS]

  host a conference that for years was like the All Things D conference while [TS]

  they were at the Wall Street Journal announced the code conference now that [TS]

  they're on their own entry code / Comcast [TS]

  and four years I don't know maybe there's a year where nobody from Apple [TS]

  showed up I don't know but for years somebody from Apple has shown up jobs [TS]

  was there many times and some of his most famous sort of off the cuff [TS]

  interviews in the last you know ten fifteen years came with their conference [TS]

  obviously is pretty hard to get it was a pretty hard to get Tim Cook has spoken [TS]

  there a few years ago that's the conference where Tim Cook said that the [TS]

  risk is interesting this was there was two years ago and this year speaking [TS]

  from Apple was Jeff Williams so I thought that was you know it happen [TS]

  honored that was something that caught my eye because to me like being an Apple [TS]

  exec who is authorised within Apple to go there and speak you know not [TS]

  necessarily opened by the standards of open but you know and said it wasn't [TS]

  just a bunch of no comments in fact he said some interesting things but it's [TS]

  also sort of another sign of Jeff Williams is leveling up within the [TS]

  executive hierarchy and we saw him do their research k presentation yeah [TS]

  excellent operate yeah and you know in addition to the fact that he did a great [TS]

  job on stage it was to me an important and interesting thing that he announced [TS]

  and something that was dropped you know a true surprise something that had not [TS]

  been leaked in any way the stuff that like if you look at the stuff that's in [TS]

  factories work that tradition that we don't start leaving yeah I agree so you [TS]

  know first sign of Jeff Williams is leveling up was a significant on stage [TS]

  presence at one of their public comment [TS]

  another sign here is his appearances at the code conference and so my conjecture [TS]

  is that I don't know if it's imminent but I would think sooner rather than [TS]

  later Jeff Williams is going to get a promotion to chief operating officer as [TS]

  he was sort of a couple times was right underneath him and he became senior vice [TS]

  president of operations which is not exactly the same thing as chief [TS]

  operating officer at sea level position that makes them a lot of sense [TS]

  especially if if operations continues on one and I can see it because Tim Cook is [TS]

  an operations guy so you might think you don't need a CEO and the CEO's in fact [TS]

  that could operations by the it just makes sense says as Jeff Williams [TS]

  impressive projects that that yeah I think so and well and quite frankly I [TS]

  honestly thing I think it's a lot harder to guess that was with Steve Jobs and [TS]

  Tim Cook but my guess is that the current succession plan if something [TS]

  happened to Tim Cook would be fired Jeff Williams to be named CEO and that it's [TS]

  it's and again it's funny how things change where when when Steve Jobs you [TS]

  know was sick and it was obvious I mean a responsible company would have a [TS]

  succession plan even with a perfectly healthy CLI today as well as a [TS]

  responsibility of the board if they don't then the board can be you know it [TS]

  is liable to shareholder suits etc [TS]

  Tim Cook seems to me like the type of guy who you know always has insurance [TS]

  right like you don't have to remind him that you have to you know you should you [TS]

  know make sure you get renters insurance on that you know rental properties ie [TS]

  sorry [TS]

  but my guess is that the current succession plan if it needed to come in [TS]

  would be for Jeff Williams and the funny difference would be that when Steve Jobs [TS]

  the needed a succession plan their idea is the last thing we're going to try to [TS]

  do is replace Steve Jobs with another Steve Jobs because there is no other [TS]

  Steve Jobs [TS]

  whereas my guests with Tim Cook is we would replace him with the closest thing [TS]

  we have to another time coke which is Jeff Williams a guy with the exact same [TS]

  background you know they just seem like you know two peas in a pod really I mean [TS]

  they are not that it you know and I'm sure if you got to know them personally [TS]

  I'm sure that they're individuals but at least from the outside they are [TS]

  extremely similar individuals operations background even they're both from the [TS]

  US-south they they seem to have similar demeanor is even you know and and [TS]

  similar reputations within the company for getting shit done and absolutely and [TS]

  steve Jobs was unique but he did have some of the skills that are really [TS]

  important for SEO including the ability to make those deals on the ability to [TS]

  rally shareholders but a lot of the other things is not typical you said [TS]

  earlier Johnny I love how he has no aspirations BC that's not the kind of [TS]

  job you enjoy doing and I think that's true of a lot of them whether it's [TS]

  marketing or services that create further media fit riccio CEO makes no [TS]

  sense right even though he's phenomenal Jeff Williams just seems like the best [TS]

  fit right liked what it really means to be a pure CEO it really to me comes out [TS]

  of operations and combined with deep understanding of what it is that makes [TS]

  Apple AAPL right and you know that I don't think you know I again I really do [TS]

  not think that in the near future that they would ever consider looking outside [TS]

  the company for a replacement [TS]

  you know CEO it would it would have to take a significant and I think years [TS]

  long drought of you know you know declines in revenue and problems with [TS]

  products you know for them to even think about that would have to be a situation [TS]

  where something was clearly going wrong whereas as long as things are going [TS]

  right or in my opinion even just like ok they're only gonna look inside there is [TS]

  such a unique culture and getting some at that level of climate I saw that [TS]

  culture we've heard about having some problems with the vast amount of [TS]

  Engineers but getting an executive in there at that level of bringing Angela [TS]

  Harris we saw what happened when he brought in John Browett before that you [TS]

  know years from now who knows you know I and alarms could be on that list too but [TS]

  it's you know but it wouldn't be like a near-term [TS]

  if something happened and I don't think that's gonna happen I think Tim Cook is [TS]

  you know he's made apple is life I think it would be like an emergency situation [TS]

  but have to have a plan for it so another way to look at it to me is you [TS]

  know there are places you hear about places where they only like to hire [TS]

  software engineers from Stanford MIT and Caltech and Carnegie Mellon like if [TS]

  you're not in the top five comps I programs they don't want it that they [TS]

  don't look at you I think Apple for like a chief executive is only looking at [TS]

  graduates of Apple university yet if you haven't gone throughout the years long [TS]

  program throughout the university and learned the app away from the last [TS]

  fifteen to twenty years they're not looking at you and the only the only way [TS]

  to go through Apple university is to be a longtime executive at Apple Inc and [TS]

  running Apple retail stores is one of the closest jobs to be president of [TS]

  vision of Apple may be on the iTunes similar scope of that operation so those [TS]

  those are two people who could and Angelina's did run business said that [TS]

  the length of time in the company's what makes yeah yeah it is sort of their own [TS]

  division and and in a sense you know for example she gets her own marketing you [TS]

  know again I'm maybe the posters gone through Schiller's group or whatever but [TS]

  just the general sense that when you walk into the Apple Store the experience [TS]

  of walking in [TS]

  I mean and literally I mean this total early like how it smells every sense [TS]

  that is engaged in that store is a reflection of Apple's brand and you know [TS]

  being and that's an enormous brand responsibility and again that makes it [TS]

  that makes her more like the president of the individual you know a separate [TS]

  division I think he was similar marketing and they have been since they [TS]

  have developers working and I could easily be its own company as well he [TS]

  just seems like you would be a shortlist of gases though to definitely thinking [TS]

  about this a lot because they're they're all the rumors of the new Apple TV [TS]

  coming out in the Apple TV unlike the iPhone and the iPad the iPad is under [TS]

  organization and it's been so long since I updated it was last updated 2012 [TS]

  spring [TS]

  what that means for a product an apple looks at it as not just being a device [TS]

  but being a device that has to be bundled with services in this case media [TS]

  properties or content deals because otherwise they could have just been [TS]

  updating this every year so I that's the thing I'm most excited about for the BBC [TS]

  this year at least unless they are you know other than the vague idea that they [TS]

  have a complete surprise to you know the curtain on but they know so we'd blah [TS]

  blah blah new Apple TV and maybe there's an SDK etcetera etcetera [TS]

  we don't know anything about it like they've kept that that's been the [TS]

  details have been released from everything i've seen [TS]

  pretty pretty under wraps but I really do think it's coming this year I would [TS]

  put money on it I think we can guess a little bit like it's running a [TS]

  single-core a five processor right now and it almost certainly gotta do it is [TS]

  going to go [TS]

  version of iOS eight right now just a different version of human right now [TS]

  meaning if you go into a store and buy a $99 Apple TV right now right [TS]

  single-core processor running iOS 8.30 but they put in a seven class processor [TS]

  in there they let it run something like metal [TS]

  if they start incorporating technology into like syria then I think if you just [TS]

  look at it as an iOS device bring it up the parity [TS]

  with last year's are this year's iPhone or iPad than that becomes a very maybe a [TS]

  more explosive device we've seen before but because it really interesting and [TS]

  you know just in terms it's crazy and they do these comparisons as they've [TS]

  gone to retina screens with a show like what a 1080p TV pixel for pixel looks [TS]

  like on a red 95 K iMac or something like that and you see it my god [TS]

  1080p TV is just a tiny little rectangle in the corner you can do like [TS]

  side-by-side 1080p on a five-game great a pretty sure you do for them still have [TS]

  room for pallets so the ridiculous thing is that a new Apple TV to run a 1080p TV [TS]

  is pushing way fewer pixels then and I found 66 plus I guess that's just not [TS]

  even breaking a sweat in terms of that in terms of what they can get away with [TS]

  you no cost efficient level so I'm really excited to see that to see what [TS]

  they do is see what the input methods are and to see what kind of SDK they're [TS]

  giving their giving to us and I think the platform technologies group under [TS]

  johnnie Suruchi the other johnnie a doubtful I think never get the credit [TS]

  they deserve but if you look at something like the Apple iPad air to [TS]

  that machine is ludicrous overpowered 48 X processor a lot of companies companies [TS]

  that make money off selling chips it's not in their best interest to move too [TS]

  fast because they want to get as much money as they can [TS]

  generation chip apple could care less if they just let these guys run as fast as [TS]

  they can they don't see all these have not good enough will use it for two or [TS]

  three years they're not know you can fit an extra cord do it you can fit an extra [TS]

  or GPUs do it and there I think for a while iOS the software was perhaps ahead [TS]

  of the hardware but I think we've entered an age now where I don't even [TS]

  know do with the power don't think anything maybe a high-end gain tax a [TS]

  little bit I don't think anything on iOS taxes it and if you start putting that [TS]

  sort of power in an Apple TV I don't outside of an STI [TS]

  that is beyond now so I think it's what they start doing both with the iPad [TS]

  going forward and with Apple TVs just answering the questions of now that you [TS]

  have a run on it can I tell you what my dream feature for Apple TV would be and [TS]

  I'm ripping right off from my pal John Siracusa I don't listen to the [TS]

  accidental tech podcast absolutely got john Kasay oh yeah I got a guy either [TS]

  the moderator [TS]

  yeah so syracuse head around a few episodes ago and I know it's a recurring [TS]

  thing for him but his thing is you're watching a stream or video or whatever [TS]

  and you go to fast forward or a pause for too long and then you come back it's [TS]

  back at the beginning right like you're watching the Netflix streaming you just [TS]

  one like I understand that with its streaming rather than completely [TS]

  download and listen to the episode of ATP World Syracuse right but I just [TS]

  completely in agreement him if I wanna fast forward a stream just show me you [TS]

  know I'm now says it goes by but make sure that the time and even just we just [TS]

  move the timeline and the scrubber in the timeline and don't even show me [TS]

  anything visually just let me see the timeline and pick and if I said I know I [TS]

  just wanna go back two minutes and I just go back to show the timeline and [TS]

  I'm eating for two minutes and then when I stopped two minutes later and hit play [TS]

  if you need a second or two to catch up on the stream fine but make sure that [TS]

  that restart and the fact that so many streaming things on everything I've ever [TS]

  tried don't work that way drives me nuts and it's even worse because like [TS]

  Siracusa we've been a TiVo house since forever I think I got a TiVo [TS]

  year 2000 when my wife and I when I was working a bare-bones software we went [TS]

  over its evils house and he had TiVo [TS]

  and it we immediately next to him by the TV ratings ever but the thing with TiVo [TS]

  it when you fast forward it always just fast forwards and when you rewind it [TS]

  always reminds and it always just starts where you want to start and you never [TS]

  have this problem and I know that's because the Evo is downloaded everything [TS]

  to a hard drive in the box but the simple fact is that with TiVo you can [TS]

  fast-forward rewind skims you know scan whatever you wanna call it backwards [TS]

  forwards jump forward 15 minute at any time and it just works and I swear to [TS]

  God if I Apple TV could just do that first stuff there now for something on [TS]

  it as her like a regional iPhone when you scroll so far it and try to render [TS]

  the interfaces ya going behind you yes that's what I want that's exactly what I [TS]

  want with you know like stream scanning and not enough to be a dick about it but [TS]

  also late I know that whatever content deals been delaying or at least [TS]

  influencing the AppleTV releases I'm looking to get that in Canada anyways he [TS]

  never talked about that is that God that sucks well you still get the I still [TS]

  think I think I could do a better job even with their own content iTunes [TS]

  content they do get in Canada and I'd really like to see them focus on that [TS]

  experience and put the sort of the comparing it to scrolling on the iPhone [TS]

  is exactly right [TS]

  like obviously right from the get-go when when the software was way more [TS]

  ambitious than the hardware could support they still focused on making [TS]

  sure the experience was responsive and that even if you had to wait to catch up [TS]

  at least you wasn't like if you scroll too far down on the web page all of a [TS]

  sudden it snapped it to the top which would be making mad but which happened [TS]

  with streaming stuff all the time they're super smart engineers working on [TS]

  Apple TV and maybe there were some frustrations all-stars but it they had a [TS]

  long time now and it feels like there's a big technology gap that's gonna help [TS]

  with performance [TS]

  these are smarter now so hopefully a lot of that will get rectified yeah my my [TS]

  you know and again not to put too much on them because who knows maybe it'll be [TS]

  an underwhelming announcement and that I'm not going to hold it against him but [TS]

  I will just say knowing that there are some really smart people who've been [TS]

  working on for a while and that some of the whole if not all of it a lot of it [TS]

  has been content negotiation and figuring out what we're gonna do [TS]

  Terms of Service wise I was external that it's possible that the internal [TS]

  team is really kind of might be under you know be able to to do like to take a [TS]

  2.0 version of whatever it is that they were going to if they might have shipped [TS]

  two years ago that they would have ship then you know that there are like a [TS]

  next-generation version of it and there's so much in Iowa State that [TS]

  they're not for example last year we almost had no iTunes announcement I can [TS]

  remember very many at all in the one we did get like iTunes radio whenever [TS]

  propagated because the beats merger at least change that whole strategy but we [TS]

  don't have continuity or iTunes or for any form media yet we can't just get up [TS]

  with the playlist on our max transfer to our iPhone keep walking for watching the [TS]

  Apple TV you can go manually and chase after the functionality they used to [TS]

  have to do with productivity stuff but it's not yet at that age is a huge [TS]

  opportunity I don't have any state commission with a gonna do it now or not [TS]

  but there's a lot of stuff that they can do to catch up and bring all the stuff [TS]

  forward yeah I wonder how some of the continuity stuff could work and with [TS]

  like it a little bit of proximity awareness you know like how much easier [TS]

  could they make you know airplay by like I already know you're in the living room [TS]

  and you're watching the video and you know maybe the Apple TV could get ready [TS]

  to receive you know the video sad that it the handoff happens much quicker in [TS]

  advance if you played with hand off on the ice on the Apple watch very much now [TS]

  I actually haven't done handoff on the watch that much it's interesting because [TS]

  there's there's some collision right now because I have a mac and I have an [TS]

  iPhone and Apple watch [TS]

  and you can hand off messages or mail any of that kind of stuff but my my Mac [TS]

  is broadcasting to pick up my phone and I'll see the Safari icon from my Mac but [TS]

  then I'll change Windows nelson also see the Messages icon from my watch and that [TS]

  sort of thing I think they're gonna have to figure out too because now we're not [TS]

  going to just have an iPhone and iPad with the Mac and watch and maybe get to [TS]

  get that slot on the rocks [TS]

  alright let me take one last break here thank our final sponsor and then come [TS]

  back and wrap up the show with what our final thoughts but I'll a sponsor and [TS]

  positively delighted to have him back it's our good friends at Harry's you [TS]

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  the handles to the razors to the creams anything you need really great stuff [TS]

  really great focus on quality design sort of timeless design that isn't [TS]

  gimmicky it doesn't look like a droid ad from Verizon it just looks like a nice [TS]

  classy handle for a razor and nice beautiful box of razor blades and here's [TS]

  the thing [TS]

  thereby cutting out the middleman they make them pay package and then they sell [TS]

  them direct to you so you're not going through some kind of distributor in [TS]

  distributor putting in drugstores and in the drug store sells and tu and it's [TS]

  marked up all along the way and when you're in the drugstore because people [TS]

  shoplift this stuff they've gotten behind the glass thing and you've got a [TS]

  hell down and then they have to unlock that thing and then you pick it out and [TS]

  then they won't even let you take them they like walk you to the counter what a [TS]

  pain in the ass you go to Harry's you sign up you pick the one you want to [TS]

  pick the starting kit you want and a couple of days later [TS]

  boom arrives in the mail [TS]

  and they by cutting out the middleman their prices are just terrific so just [TS]

  for example here's the thing that blaze costs like $2 or less per pack [TS]

  depending on what you do so for 15 bucks you get you get a pack aid you can't get [TS]

  a 15 pack of Gillette blades time in eight pack for 15 bucks you know that [TS]

  they're like $32 or something like that and that's even on Amazon if you go if [TS]

  you buy 16 at the time it's only 25 bucks you only pay a dollar fifty per [TS]

  blade cartridge and these are the type of cartridges you know there's four [TS]

  blades on that thing in that strip at the top to keep a comfortable comes in [TS]

  beautiful packaging makes you feel really good about it really really cool [TS]

  stuff they also have things were you can sign up once you're happy customer you [TS]

  can tell them how often you shave how often you go through stuff you can sign [TS]

  up get more or less like a subscription and blades just show up on a regular [TS]

  basis so you doing enough to remember to reorder but to get started before you [TS]

  know you're not gonna subscribe before you know how could this stuff is all you [TS]

  do is you go there you take a look around and you can get these sets [TS]

  they've got one called The Truman set gives you some shaving cream or gel [TS]

  handle three blades everything you need to get started 15 bucks thats it they've [TS]

  got the Winston set same type of stuff same three things except the blade is [TS]

  made out of steel [TS]

  instead of plastic really cool stuff and here's some house timing wise exactly [TS]

  it's a great idea it's called the fathers day [TS]

  shave set comes in a beautiful box you get to pick between foaming gel or shave [TS]

  cream it gives you everything you need to get started with Harry's in just the [TS]

  box alone looks like it's worth it it's the whole thing is only 40 bucks really [TS]

  really great stuff again no brainer I know it seems like you know I could take [TS]

  your dad that I [TS]

  central cliche [TS]

  shaving kit but this is so nice and it's so nicely designed I say go retro do it [TS]

  is a great idea how can you go wrong with it really really cool stuff I [TS]

  encourage you to go and check it out you just see that just the box alone looks [TS]

  like it's worth 40 bucks don't have these guys do it where do you go to find [TS]

  out more go to Harry's dot-com heyday rry s dot com and use the code talk show [TS]

  know that just talk show and on your first order you will save 10% so my [TS]

  thanks to Harry's go there and check them out here that your husband father [TS]

  anybody want a Father's Day shaving kit really really great stuff I thanks to [TS]

  them you know I was wrong about 10% you save five bucks that's what you say five [TS]

  bucks at checkout on your first purchase but it'll be about 10 percent depending [TS]

  on where you buy money in your pocket and a fantastic shaving one last thing [TS]

  on my list of things to talk about [TS]

  and in a few of anything and maybe it's related to hand off and etc but one of [TS]

  the most curious pieces of news that have come out to me you know what I'm [TS]

  going to say right I you say it discovered a discovery the explained as [TS]

  governor Ed to people who may not be familiar with it so Apple did a lot of [TS]

  under the hood stops with yosemite launch the discovery D and my original [TS]

  understanding is that this was a key component for things like continuity in [TS]

  for a world where you do have to be able to move identify devices and move [TS]

  information that's information but actually activity back and forth between [TS]

  them but it was remarkably error-prone I think rich Siegel was my favorite when [TS]

  he posted a screenshot showing Apple TV bracket 1 although it in ninety 90 [TS]

  something on his alright so for example if in the last year you've had an ex and [TS]

  experience where let anything on your home network has suddenly gotten a new [TS]

  name where it was the old name [TS]

  print this season an integer like example a perfect example that your [TS]

  Apple TV no longer shows up as Apple TV it's now called Apple TV one or you know [TS]

  Jones iPhone is now joan dive onto that discovery d that's an issue with [TS]

  discovery D or if your other computers on your network no longer show up in the [TS]

  air and I it does he might they fixed my problem at some point but we had a [TS]

  problem here [TS]

  talked about it and show a few months ago with our HP LaserJet printer which [TS]

  has your support and at first when we first got a couple years ago it was [TS]

  great because we no longer needed it it does go and set up a printer and it was [TS]

  listed and then it would figure out what it was it was almost I swear and I know [TS]

  this is retro but in the old days of classic Mac OS with the chooser and we [TS]

  didn't even have a network printer you plug the printer in your computer and [TS]

  you went to the chooser and there was there is the printer and you selected it [TS]

  and then when you went to whatever app you're using to print it would print to [TS]

  the printer and there was no there no drivers to install no telling the [TS]

  computer what printer is it all identified itself that's how it worked [TS]

  with our LaserJet until you know somebody and then all of a sudden you [TS]

  you printed yesterday and then you went to print today and it wouldn't print and [TS]

  then you go to see where is the printer and it wouldn't even be listed as one of [TS]

  those fixes was to basically disconnect everything especially Apple TVs and then [TS]

  reconnected and it sounded I don't have the technical acumen sounded like some [TS]

  cash poisoning or something with a bad list yeah and it was just replicate yeah [TS]

  and maybe like hang on to all the ideas of where something should be but the [TS]

  weird thing about it is it replaced something called em DNS responder and [TS]

  the weird thing is is people you know again when I was younger I would have [TS]

  been right there with him but there you know people far braver than me [TS]

  jury rigged yosemite to turn off discovery D and replace it with MDS [TS]

  responder from Mike I guess what we had before Mavericks like that last stable [TS]

  version of Mavericks which to me that type of stuff I can see why it works I'm [TS]

  not shocked that it works but to me that sort of doing surgery on the OS is not [TS]

  for me anymore right that's a young man's game but by every account i've [TS]

  read if there's a set of instructions there I wouldn't recommend following [TS]

  them if you're you know but they are and by all accounts at work that you could [TS]

  disable discovery d go back to Mavericks version of Mtns responder and everything [TS]

  just worked and the weird thing as before that before somebody had figured [TS]

  out here is a proven set of instructions to do it [TS]

  the assumption was well they replaced and why did they replace emptiness [TS]

  responder which didn't have any of these problems with discovery D which has all [TS]

  of these problems and the consensus was well some of these continuity features [TS]

  must depend on it and if you do this I guess I'll bet some of the continuity [TS]

  features are gonna work anymore and and so the weird thing is that in but still [TS]

  a beta the latest beta of ten-point 10.4 that's exactly what Apple is done is [TS]

  that discovery he is no longer there and they've gotten back to Mtns responder [TS]

  feels like an MDS responders been around since Jaguar but it feels like they they [TS]

  needed this felt they knew this rewrite oftentimes people complain that they're [TS]

  not allowed to refactor old quarter they don't have the time to refactor at but [TS]

  tell that this went forward and they were given opportunities to fix it and [TS]

  there were fixes that we're almost every point release and just got to a point [TS]

  where decision was made that it's not being pics right up her fast enough and [TS]

  we're cutting date [TS]

  I don't know if it's just for now and they're testing it because it would [TS]

  weird is this is a beta so unless it's in the shipping version is not gonna hit [TS]

  everybody so the shipping version comes out with discovery d back in it and I [TS]

  don't know what this means I'm back with MS and then at least we know that that's [TS]

  been officially changed everywhere and in a start discovery he is also on iOS [TS]

  aid right I believe so yes I believe so too had a friend who said that he was [TS]

  with to this a friend who does not work it out but was out with a few Apple [TS]

  folks and joked about they replace discovery D&I last two and and they they [TS]

  just went silent and 11 Apple guy like stifle a laugh I read that as you may [TS]

  have but i mean you know I need wouldn't fix known for her or drinks when they [TS]

  exchanged on this subject but there might be something there I think it [TS]

  started asking too soon I my guess is there somebody within Apple whose the [TS]

  DRI again directly responsible individual for discovery D who is having [TS]

  trouble sleeping at night and when he wakes up in the morning is covered in [TS]

  sweat because this sort of thing does not happen like they Apple stubbornly [TS]

  fixes these things rather than go back to write like a roll-back like this just [TS]

  is you know and it's not a huge deal in oral but it's just out of character for [TS]

  Apple and and another thing I have heard is just loosely that in turn in the [TS]

  aftermath of this coming out and just like asking around like what they have [TS]

  added you know this is just crazy [TS]

  is there at Discovery de became like the whipping boy for anything and everything [TS]

  wrong with your Samedi even if it had nothing to do with networking like just [TS]

  a loose terms from the top [TS]

  it's this whole basic idea to go back even the marcos [TS]

  functional high ground during this whole basic idea that Apple software has [TS]

  become a little less reliable with yosemite really rank really rankled [TS]

  people within Apple [TS]

  all the way up to the top and that you know I've talked about this but that you [TS]

  know there are people who who who went in denial about it but it was said wait [TS]

  are open bug count is lower than it's been in years [TS]

  you know we've been fixing bugs at this incredible rate this doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  make sense that people think we've been getting less reliable and we're getting [TS]

  fewer crash reports then everything's are crashing less all these ways they [TS]

  have internally of analytically measuring reliability we're saying if [TS]

  somebody was as one of their best releases ever and the conventional [TS]

  wisdom out and user land was that it was one of the worst and the whole thing [TS]

  came down to its discovery diesel they were using the wrong metrics to qualify [TS]

  their success but child right and you could just be Steve Jobs will he be [TS]

  sitting there [TS]

  99 know what it actually see doesn't it seem like Steve Jobs decision that at [TS]

  some point there was obviously wasn't but at some point likes you know [TS]

  somebody got started about all these bugs discovery D and there's this [TS]

  frustration and and pride that you get any says we're going back to Mtns [TS]

  responder and everybody in the room is like we don't do that we and and then he [TS]

  leaves and it's like he just said we're going back to Mtns responder and so it's [TS]

  like okay and in the old days of initial circles caller said don't worry about it [TS]

  give you two weeks and there's nobody there so that is a curious story but in [TS]

  another way though it's actually sort of makes me feel good it's like let's let's [TS]

  not be stubborn but not be too prideful and with the new thing let's just go [TS]

  with what works [TS]

  doing something this is no longer on the table right there said it was confirming [TS]

  that case coming for the watch [TS]

  and I thought that's covered he was instrumental all that kind of stuff that [TS]

  they're doing now with extensions and you never know it's brand new what's [TS]

  going to happen but this kind of culture i think is better as a better [TS]

  environment I skipped around a little bit but I did want to say that about the [TS]

  code conference thought that was such an interesting thing for him to reveal two [TS]

  weeks before WBC that they're going to have the native SDK which I really [TS]

  wasn't sure about I know a lot of people thought it was a no-brainer but I [TS]

  thought you know watch kid itself is still relatively new let you know and I [TS]

  know that they said you know I'm not the one hand I'm a little surprised I'm not [TS]

  shocked because they did say it was coming later this year and if it is [TS]

  coming later this year why not invalided WWDC I think some people think they can [TS]

  actually get the SDK but it wasn't clear to me whether it was just a preview or [TS]

  they're actually yeah I don't know and then it raises all sorts of questions [TS]

  like how do you install developer releases of the OS on your watch and [TS]

  stuff like that I that's what I would guess right that's what I would think [TS]

  they just had the first date very recently updated I was a point 31 and [TS]

  the instructions for how to do it because it's very different [TS]

  yeah yeah because it all he can't do it on the device itself it's all through [TS]

  though watch out on the phone they have to put it on the charger has more than [TS]

  50 percent because I'm gonna turn wifi on full blast to get the data over then [TS]

  you have to basically watched on the phone is which is why it's interesting [TS]

  procedure yeah yeah very well for me and seemingly for everybody [TS]

  you have to think I O I thought while that happened in the day they happen [TS]

  that that has to be like such a gigantic collective held breath for like Kevin [TS]

  Lynch's team [TS]

  we're like the matter how well they've tested it and how confident they are [TS]

  it's like putting it out in the real world there could be you know even like [TS]

  that one percent 1% of the watches got bricked it's like that is that's a [TS]

  failure and it's gonna be a PR disaster the iOS update 1.1 only affected iPhone [TS]

  6 and 16 + if you used the delta pilot over the air the full install was fine [TS]

  but that for a first-generation product first time that happens it it's not even [TS]

  that was terrible it even worse because the first one is the one where the press [TS]

  would you know be able to jump on and say you know first up first watch update [TS]

  break swatches and it's like that's that's not good headline yeah especially [TS]

  because you don't have as much access you have to an iPhone I don't know what [TS]

  people do this I think they would I think it's I think we have bricked OS on [TS]

  the phone I'm gonna watch it has to go to store I don't think there's any way [TS]

  around it I really down cause of iOS 6 plus I just the previous version [TS]

  great I can't do that with great cause I don't see how if it gets bricked and [TS]

  during an OS update how they otherwise they would still have to have some kind [TS]

  of working Bluetooth or wi-fi I don't know one or the other day that the phone [TS]

  app could still detect it and do it over the air but I don't know that that's [TS]

  possible but yeah the port on the Apple and it's definitely that's a steal that [TS]

  is you know technically be want to in their videos out there how you can do it [TS]

  but there's no way that that's never a troubleshooting step for the custom it [TS]

  might be what they do at the store but it's definitely not ever user expose [TS]

  double and even now they can and then people can get their hands on him close [TS]

  enough for our watches to ship but I think like the order a modern buckle for [TS]

  example of apple.com is not available right now I still I keep hearing July [TS]

  yes the last thing I have on my list is that you and I the watches that you and [TS]

  I both ordered for her personal life as both arrived right on the same time [TS]

  about a week and a half ago the space black link bracelet I do I am very happy [TS]

  with it I was torn between this one and the stainless the regular stainless and [TS]

  that's the one I got from my review unit and so having won both I I'm definitely [TS]

  glad that I got this one I had a statement just something about the black [TS]

  and the way that Apple does manufacturing and I understand why some [TS]

  people would think that the cold maybe the height of art museum hours are with [TS]

  the watch but for me this was always the most attractive version is because its [TS]

  stainless steel SDLC to so many things going on with it and the look I think [TS]

  you're the one who said that it changed slightly between September and March I [TS]

  i'm convinced it did I cannot prove it I also felt I was in the store yesterday [TS]

  or the day before with my son he had a hardware problem with his MacBook and so [TS]

  while we were there we were looking at their watches to my eyes now the the one [TS]

  in the store is lower its under glass insulating could be different but to me [TS]

  the demo unit that they have in the store under the glass display looked [TS]

  slightly lighter than mine and look there's look more like dark gray and [TS]

  mine looks more like black but I thought the ones in September definitely look [TS]

  more like darker gray metal and not black but I could be honest remembering [TS]

  I think I have a photo and now looking at it I can't tell if it's the silver or [TS]

  the black one because I was sure it was a black and it looks so light compared [TS]

  to this one is out from I'm just looking Instagram back in September event and I [TS]

  went back to look at it and it just looked so light compared to what I have [TS]

  now it may be dealt with it was actually yeah I that's what I remember thinking [TS]

  in Hiram and again I could be wrong maybe I was just looking at two [TS]

  stainless steel is but I remember in September [TS]

  looking at the in the press area and thinking I don't understand why they [TS]

  made both of these because they look almost indistinguishable they're calling [TS]

  this one stainless in this one space black stainless and they look like the [TS]

  same thing to me whereas the one that's where it is on my wrist is truly black [TS]

  it is black as the right wearing it non-stop for we can happen to looks like [TS]

  the box [TS]

  yeah it's actually true for me too whereas the regular stainless definitely [TS]

  develop scratches on the bracelet you know within a day or two which is normal [TS]

  I should say for a stainless steel like my you know my own stainless steel watch [TS]

  you know you just get scratches its [TS]

  if you look closely at it you know and where is this DLC coating really does [TS]

  seem to be keeping in and out of the box condition it really is a weird thing to [TS]

  talk about like we talked to me and I talked about this this personally but it [TS]

  to the touch it has it feels hard like metal but it has almost a rubbery [TS]

  texture gun on porous texture yeah I have to say I really liked it but I [TS]

  ordered it first thing first thing the second after the story went live and it [TS]

  didn't show up until a week and a half ago so that was a long time in the last [TS]

  month [TS]

  yeah you know anybody edition of you seen it in China dog I saw that Jonathan [TS]

  Geller boy genius report go on [TS]

  out of turn but on last week's showdown from her and I were talking about how we [TS]

  hadn't how he hadn't seen any in the wild and then after we published the [TS]

  show is when it seemed like they first started shipping and Dan alerted me to [TS]

  it was the first I'd seen that Jonathan Geller and gotten his gold watch his DMD [TS]

  me Dan Frommer said boy genius wins the golden bird I don't blame the kid if you [TS]

  got the money go ahead and get it have fun last night got them good for them [TS]

  somebody [TS]

  listener dell also texted me that they saw somebody in Grand Central with the [TS]

  rose gold I forget what band business broadband but a rose gold one with the [TS]

  sport band so you know they're definitely starting to ship and I think [TS]

  you know obviously places like New York City and stuff like that and where you [TS]

  go see him when I was at the Tryon at the store in Palo Alto and I went for [TS]

  lunch afterwards and there was a group of people sitting around at one of the [TS]

  tables and they were talking about which version of the addition they were going [TS]

  to get a question about what watch like the rose gold yellow gold buckle and [TS]

  those of their version huh interesting I'm sure some people against people who [TS]

  get $25,000 plane tickets to Singapore six or seven star hotel rooms [TS]

  I guess anything else you want to talk about before we wrap up the show very [TS]

  busy week I will see you soon right [TS]

  alright I guess I should say questions about my I am free to fly I've been [TS]

  pretty fly for over a month so I'm invited to and will be at WWDC today [TS]

  dude into invitations this year like they know I just got a phone call I [TS]

  think some some people on Twitter I tracked it down right because to my [TS]

  knowledge so nobody has like no we don't get to do the the criminology of trying [TS]

  to read into the invitation design what the topics are gonna be yeah but I think [TS]

  they would oppose just use that local WBC anyway right so it doesn't it [TS]

  doesn't have I just figured nobody go alright renamed everybody can find out [TS]

  more about renee Richards work certainly a time or dot com and on Twitter Rene [TS]

  Ritchie rite at Rene Ritchie [TS]

  re any are TCH the podcast you're on everybody enjoy rich in original package [TS]

  you you're in luck because Renee's on 37 podcast I let you pick up to five of [TS]

  them we just put a few minutes ago and it's with that guy and polka fascist [TS]

  have nothing to talk about three hours whereas out from nowhere was it recorded [TS]

  life I gotcha gotcha it's funny because we did a podcast at all and after an [TS]

  hour [TS]

  felt like forever stadia and just an hour an eternity three hours with pollen [TS]

  escapes the air now that's always the case when you're on stage you feel it in [TS]

  a sense that you don't [TS]

  soap opera fascist never heard him say yeah and anything else they got the bug [TS]

  what else would I vector which was on hiatus but it's coming back right after [TS]

  WC and that's that's more shows I heard nothing goes without saying [TS]

  alright and thanks to you and talk to you soon [TS]

  show [TS]