The Talk Show

105: ‘George Lucas Called’, With Guest Jason Snell

 

  hello from beautiful southern california hello from very cold dark Philadelphia I [TS]

  expect nothing less from Philly know your songs on Capp yeah well so I was in [TS]

  as Arizona so we will I came through LA we go out to my moms place in Arizona [TS]

  and come back through because it's such a long drive you can't really drive [TS]

  direct from San Francisco to Phoenix cause the mountains are in the way so [TS]

  about half way to my in Los so we spent a day here coming down and couple days [TS]

  going back so it's a twofer all the grandparents are visible and it's pretty [TS]

  good trip while driving though I'll come back to that something you wrote about [TS]

  recent al-anon wanna touch with the road trip but big picture last time you were [TS]

  on the show how ya you were here till the editorial director for Macworld from [TS]

  48 hours yeah yeah it was the day it was the night before the Apple event it was [TS]

  like September 8 I think it was it was it was it the seventh I might have [TS]

  recorded the seventh and published it [TS]

  yeah i think thats I think that's right I remember something to do with good [TS]

  sound like [TS]

  gonna go up before the Apple event because nobody's going to listen to it [TS]

  after where we were right on the cusp of the Apple event and then the Macworld [TS]

  layoffs and everything happened the next day [TS]

  yeah that was that was pretty funny cuz I was like I i talked to John about [TS]

  anything I can't so what big new things are going to happen this week I'm [TS]

  frightened well there's gonna be a new year because the earth goes around the [TS]

  Sun and nothing we can do can stop that so it's gonna be 2015 so there's [TS]

  something and beyond that lets hope nothing I could use a little less fewer [TS]

  interesting events postdoc shell [TS]

  it fascinates me though it really does because you know in the grand scheme of [TS]

  things September is not that long ago it's you know three months [TS]

  yet somehow your new role doing your thing at six colors and you know it all [TS]

  seemed settled already let you know [TS]

  settled is not quite right but it feels normal to me now that you're writing at [TS]

  six colors and Mac world as we know it doesn't exist [TS]

  appreciate that it's i mean one of the big things I've said this on a bike Sui [TS]

  I wish I wasn't planning on leaving I wasn't entirely sure I mean and I said [TS]

  on August 2010 said you directly mean you were obviously a huge inspiration [TS]

  and Jim Dalrymple and Federico teaching and other people I know who have gone [TS]

  out on their own John bolts and done their own websites and you know I'm some [TS]

  podcasts and some freelance and all of that and i dont thinking about that for [TS]

  a while and in fact a year ago I started basically putting together a home office [TS]

  in my garage caught my eye I we had no work space in the house it's it's a [TS]

  pretty small house and in the garage was we bought a mini van a few years ago [TS]

  when he couldn't camper van in the garage it's too big and so the garage [TS]

  became when we were doing our kitchen it was a place where all the junk in the [TS]

  house when while we were redoing it and then came back in like what we do in the [TS]

  garage I was increasingly unhappy with my job and I kept thinking you know the [TS]

  garage needs to be home office and I started building it and the entire [TS]

  intent was not to have really nice work at home days the intent was that that [TS]

  would be my office eventually cause I would leave macworld and I wouldn't want [TS]

  to at least try to do my own thing rather than go you know we'd always [TS]

  joked one of the past president of Macworld and I joked that my coaches [TS]

  will be the last one to turn the lights off at macro that the end mad world will [TS]

  be just Jason in his garage [TS]

  macworld and I had that route moment when I was watching you and Federico and [TS]

  jim and people like that that I thought to myself well one if people can do that [TS]

  on their own I don't need to do that here and if I'm gonna do that I want to [TS]

  own it I wanna be that the person who does that not just kind of doing all my [TS]

  work toward the mysterious overlords who owned a company who owns a company that [TS]

  owns a company that owns Macworld [TS]

  and so I was I was planning to anyway I've been thinking about it for a long [TS]

  time for more than a year and then there was the two we we saw each other at xoxo [TS]

  right afterward too so I I got to see you a couple of times right around that [TS]

  crazy time I saw you at the Apple events i three times in like a week and was [TS]

  really funny about that time is that because of the timing because we got the [TS]

  the iPhone review units and the iPhone reviews were gonna drop the following [TS]

  week and I had this moment where our normal person would have said I just [TS]

  left my job of seventeen years I'm gonna take a few weeks to recalibrate decide [TS]

  what I'm gonna do next and for me it was 18 already been thinking about what I [TS]

  wanted to do next and to have that iPhone and was like everybody everybody [TS]

  knows the biggest time of year for writing about Apple stuff is when the [TS]

  new iPhone's iOS and Mac OS come out and that's now so I thought you know what I [TS]

  don't want the site like next week and select literally less than a week after [TS]

  I left macworld six colors launched not because I make total crazy person did [TS]

  because I felt like I couldn't not be out there at that moment so I think it's [TS]

  those two things that I managed to hit that site when when we were at the high [TS]

  season for Apple stuff and because I don't think about it for so long that I [TS]

  was ready to make it happen and that you know and it does feel in a feels great [TS]

  to see what feels right to be doing it so I think all those things maybe feed [TS]

  into why it feels like a natural thing and not some crazy thing that just [TS]

  happened a couple months ago even though that's sort of what happened how long [TS]

  were you at IDG [TS]

  well as a macro macro seventeen years I've been doing this little more than 20 [TS]

  coming up 21 years of sort of full-time Apple stuff that counts so it's always a [TS]

  Mac user until 9794 297 and then what happened is that which is just hilarious [TS]

  moment in history right 97 jobs coming back but but Apple is dying and [TS]

  everybody's thinking now Apple's gonna go out at Macworld Expo they actually [TS]

  have the cash infusion from Microsoft to keep the lights on and meanwhile they're [TS]

  working on the iMac and at that moment that summer right before the bill gates [TS]

  thing in the world expo in Boston the executives at IDG and injured Davis said [TS]

  we need to cut our losses is gonna die and we get these two magazines in these [TS]

  two big staff so when we just share the risk [TS]

  put put the two organizations together lay off half of each staff and just sort [TS]

  of stickam altogether make one magazine and what it will do that cuz albums [TS]

  loser we really need to get out of this business was the single worst time just [TS]

  terrible timing because you know a couple months later even it was clear [TS]

  that Apple was gonna be probably OK and then very rapidly after that much better [TS]

  than ok and so as a result I went over to Macworld and it was this weird [TS]

  fifty-fifty joint venture where these two arch-enemy company is co-owned our [TS]

  company and we read each others throats except for us and that was really [TS]

  bizarre and then after a couple of years Davis was going through their getting [TS]

  baden Rabat and different investors and had all sorts of financial problems [TS]

  because the guy who started that company retired his son's didn't want to take [TS]

  over the family business they sold it off you know it was a financial mess and [TS]

  it was that Davis was built bills if and thus if brothers his kids were like [TS]

  screw this media crap we're gonna be a venture capitalists and so they just [TS]

  sold the business and they sold it to me it's kind of inside baseball but they [TS]

  sold it to [TS]

  I think Teddy Forstmann who was like one point had been romantically linked to [TS]

  princess diana I mean like crazy stuff in then he sold it like a year later to [TS]

  Masayoshi Son of Softbank in Japan who was who bought it I think Terry Forsman [TS]

  picked up a billion dollars by holding it for a year [TS]

  pretty good deal well good job daddy and thence South Bank talk about ancient [TS]

  history they like just think about the basic story of picking up a billion [TS]

  dollars by holding a monthly print magazine publisher oh yeah well I mean [TS]

  it was not worth what must be some paid for it was a visionary but he was also [TS]

  kind of crazy in the money he was spending was kind of crazy he said [TS]

  around doing other stuff but anyway so that was so messed up that Davis was [TS]

  like we want money and IDG was very much like oh well we we messed this up and we [TS]

  want to be in the Apple business macworld was the first publication we [TS]

  want to keep that going and so they bottomed out so the answer the question [TS]

  is probably at IDG [TS]

  you might start date as an employee was was twenty years but my my IDG employees [TS]

  start date was different and that was like the end of ninety seven at the [TS]

  beginning in ninety eight and then you know the buyout happened like around 99 [TS]

  or 2000 so it's a weird situation where I ended up never having to fill out a [TS]

  resume and had like worked for three different owners very strange only in [TS]

  the media this crazy stuff like that right and you must have been really [TS]

  really young when you started a Mac user must have been right out of college yeah [TS]

  I I went to when I finish college I although my friends who got jobs in in [TS]

  media were like working at weekly newspapers for like eleven thousand [TS]

  dollars a year and I basically said forget it I'm not going to do that and [TS]

  so I went to journalism school and although I enjoyed my time journalism [TS]

  school [TS]

  the fact is my my college newspaper was my journalism school and I learned how [TS]

  to read news stories and features and edit stories all of that at the [TS]

  newspaper the things I learned in Berkeley journalism school where they [TS]

  didn't want to do TV news is I tried and I didn't like it and I met any contacts [TS]

  I'm I met people including one of the editors and Mac user who taught a class [TS]

  there and she got me an internship so I was an intern in nineteen [TS]

  three when I was 22 and I had a job january ninety four so yeah I was 23 [TS]

  when I started full time so I think that the historical context that you have to [TS]

  remember is that the 96 97 was a terrible time for Apple and and a [TS]

  terrible to even worse probably even worse than Apple itself was the [TS]

  perception where they really were in trouble by any objective measure the [TS]

  company was wasn't serious serious trouble both technically and financially [TS]

  but even given that I think that the general perception was even worse that [TS]

  it was I mean to say doom and gloom it's it's it's not you can't overstate it but [TS]

  the perception was truly remember that I remember that we would be like to look [TS]

  as it's not quite that bad but it was it was very much I think about this now [TS]

  when the Apple AAPL is doomed has been a mean that's been around forever and it [TS]

  continues to this day and on one level you know the people who make the [TS]

  arguments today the facts of what their argument in our argument in to be stupid [TS]

  that's not really a factor that you're not looking at the whole picture but in [TS]

  the back of my mind I always have that moment of let's see what they're arguing [TS]

  here because I was present at a time when doom and gloom was happening in [TS]

  there was due and there was gloom and it at the time it did seem like it was a [TS]

  little overstated but you know the fact was that that I don't think it was [TS]

  overstated in that year in like 96 97 in the gill emilio and them searching for a [TS]

  new operating system and and Steve Jobs coming in that seemed to be the point [TS]

  where they were burning money and not selling a lot and the clones were eating [TS]

  their lunch in terms of hardware sales so even there they're big install base [TS]

  was not really benefiting them and that was where they were that was that was [TS]

  when they were falling apart and and that's the area that you get the kind of [TS]

  you know sell the company and give the money back to the shareholders kind of [TS]

  quotes is that was a moment where it was unclear whether the executives at that [TS]

  time were gonna listen to the advice of [TS]

  you know analysts and pundits and like become a software company and try to be [TS]

  Microsoft Windows and end up being like OS two and dying and and jobs to his [TS]

  credit one of the things he did when he came back and was extremely unpopular [TS]

  was killed the clones and say no no no we need to control the hardware we're [TS]

  not going to just be another company we're going to control the hardware and [TS]

  that decision actually factored into the publishing companies deciding to fold [TS]

  Mac user into macworld was all the ad revenue is coming from those twenty [TS]

  makers to and that just vanished Motorola power power power computing [TS]

  Motorola super Mac which was a Humax didn't they call them super mega they [TS]

  got that license from Apple for like scanners but it turned out they could [TS]

  use it for anything so they called they could call them super Mac with the power [TS]

  computing once called a power shower Powerwave Powerwave which was the which [TS]

  was a that was my 19 apple computer that I've ever bought was a power computing [TS]

  power wave power tower pro they had a whole bunch of power related things I I [TS]

  never owned one but I we had a car used to couple it was when the Powerwave an [TS]

  apparent our pro they were way better than the paramedics at the era really I [TS]

  really do believe I mean they were all beige they were like they were great are [TS]

  you get power computing days but they were all beige boxes but they were very [TS]

  pretty cool they were like the essentially power computing was like [TS]

  Dell Dell executives in in Austin and they were trying to use Dell [TS]

  build-to-order you know you order it and then we make it and then we ship it to [TS]

  you technologies to to cut cut their margins and have no inventory and it was [TS]

  a pretty well run company I mean and I guess well-run enough that not only was [TS]

  it that really the number one clone maker but it will run enough that they [TS]

  had enough leverage of some kind that Apple just bought them out rather than [TS]

  just letting them die [TS]

  fight them legally exactly where we would be lawsuits for sure because I was [TS]

  8 or not I was there we go [TS]

  Mac OS aid my mistake would have been to call it system system sure Mac OS aid [TS]

  was [TS]

  a major update and what Apple Jobs realized and his people when they came [TS]

  back is that the clone licenses for 47 so they basically said this is and you [TS]

  don't get it and that was how they killed the clones pretty simple really [TS]

  nice and clean and then they ended up paying some people off including buying [TS]

  the assets of of power computing right because the original plan for Mac was it [TS]

  was a little bit more ambitious than what it ended up being it was more or [TS]

  less like a nicely cleaned up version of system subsidized with that theme to [TS]

  make it look now right [TS]

  never underestimate how much a new window chrome can make it look like [TS]

  something that it wasn't but here's the thing the historical context i Apple it [TS]

  was in severe trouble and it's no surprise that if Davison IDG would make [TS]

  a deal like that but it is funny like you said like people don't remember this [TS]

  and I was on the outside I wasn't writing you know I wasn't writing [TS]

  anything you know from magazines at the time yet but I was no surprise a very [TS]

  avid reader of both Mac users macworld alter the nineties so I was aware of [TS]

  this but that it was this weird strange bedfellows things where when the unified [TS]

  the two it was this joint venture between the two archrival 10 publishing [TS]

  companies with a staff comprised of the two of of half of like literally we're [TS]

  gonna lay off half your colleagues and then we're gonna stick you with your [TS]

  arch enemies [TS]

  magazine good luck as the owners it was a staff we were we were the Yankees and [TS]

  the Red Sox ok and all of its cuz I have to have to use baseball metaphors when [TS]

  I'm on the talk show and suddenly they're like ok we're gonna release half [TS]

  and half the Red Sox and then you can have a new team good luck make the [TS]

  chemistry work and it was a disaster relief I was always and there weren't [TS]

  they were very different magazines I think you know from the outside view map [TS]

  world was little bit more staid and buttoned up informal tone coverage in [TS]

  Mac user was a little bit more casual and more like personal computer user [TS]

  centric you know like we're assuming that you're a little bit more likely to [TS]

  be a home user or a student or an enthusiast and Macworld was a little bit [TS]

  more for the professional you're using a Mac at work and it was more [TS]

  authoritative tone it was actually the tag line was the Macintosh authority at [TS]

  one point and and it was the prestige I mean a bigger budget Mac user was always [TS]

  a little more homespun a little more just as a reader and I was a reader of [TS]

  both in and before I started to Mackay is there and it was a little more of the [TS]

  rebels and the users and people who who don't go back a farm and analog would be [TS]

  something like a little bit Mac addict was even more so I think a rebellious [TS]

  kind of thing but that was definitely the the voice difference between Mac [TS]

  user and Macworld [TS]

  which is funny because when you think about it they were like the two [TS]

  magazines in the us- that were monthly that had roughly the same budget you [TS]

  know the Mac users but roughly the same doing the same thing [TS]

  their headquarters at the end there were like two blocks away from each other so [TS]

  these are you couldn't find things that were more similar and yet the output was [TS]

  different and the staffs were different in the culture is different so it's kind [TS]

  of funny that even though we had all of these things in common [TS]

  the products were different and the people were different I do think to as [TS]

  an outside observer and someone who is very critical I thought both were [TS]

  excellent things I agree especially compared to the other PC type magazines [TS]

  of the year we were in the same building as like PC computing and and there was [TS]

  also PC Mac and PC world and I didn't read them alive but yeah and Macworld [TS]

  was full of the old man was full of people who really they wanted to be in [TS]

  the magazine business and they they had high aspirations and you would see it [TS]

  and at a Mac user [TS]

  it was a combination you look at their issues when they come out you'd be like [TS]

  oh wow look what they did with that is they did the same stories a lot of them [TS]

  that we did right there's a new Apple product how are we gonna do it how are [TS]

  they going to do it you could just compare which is like that is some [TS]

  serious competition like you put it to bed and you wait two weeks and then [TS]

  suddenly out of the mailbox comes the competition what they do and did you [TS]

  beat them today be you and they they would you would look at some of the [TS]

  things and be like wow that is they did a really good job other times they they [TS]

  you know we we did someone better but then they would really do is they would [TS]

  have these ambitions to do like like New York New York magazine industry kind of [TS]

  stories bigger picture stories and big features and big ideas and some of those [TS]

  were real successes for them and some of those were I would say failures that [TS]

  we're kind of the hubris of like you know yeah we're mackerel but really we [TS]

  might as well be vanity fair and I think that was a part of their culture their [TS]

  where macworld that and Mac user was more you know Apple people who were [TS]

  there because they loved writing about technology and this is not entirely true [TS]

  of both staffs but I would take predominantly there were many more [TS]

  people who love magazines and we're writing a technology magazine because [TS]

  that was the job at Macworld and there were more people who were there because [TS]

  they love the technology and happened to get a job writing about [TS]

  magazine Mac user we were more and you saw it in the end the people who stuck [TS]

  around covering Apple afterward and writing about tag afterward were mostly [TS]

  people from Mac user and not dramatic world gather people from macro I [TS]

  remember who obviously gone on to you know to continue to do great work [TS]

  pope was a back page columnist and Steven Steven Lee video was not on staff [TS]

  they were they were freelance columnist but yes I did a lot of the back page [TS]

  columns you know for a while and that was that was great features for us and [TS]

  he read the back page and and he was a pleasure to work with and I still keep [TS]

  in touch with him was it was a pleasure to work with my plan was always to [TS]

  figure out a way that I could get to that back page without having to do any [TS]

  of the work of regular editorial staff for four years before published and I [TS]

  wound up figuring out to such a way and I think I would say this into that the [TS]

  person who to me [TS]

  best exemplified the Mac users side of that split the fact that Andy in ATCO [TS]

  was on was a Mac user writer time and you know talk about another guy who's [TS]

  never been you know still at the top of his game now and still writing about the [TS]

  same stuff but the way that his his writing is so infused with his personal [TS]

  style right was very very Mac user [TS]

  you know that we're just gonna let where we've got this not on our staff and [TS]

  we're just going to let him know I mean that Mac user was it was Andy and Chris [TS]

  Breen and Pablo vidas and I mean these are people who write with personality [TS]

  and that was definitely the idea when I got to Macworld that was one of the [TS]

  things that surprised me is that there was a statement that they value their [TS]

  writers that I heard a lot but it did seem to me that it was also a machine [TS]

  kind of generating consistent copy and what you do when you generate consistent [TS]

  copies you also stand that voice and I would say that was much tighter on that [TS]

  front but also had less boyce and was definitely messier [TS]

  it was it was you know i i would say in fact you go back and look at all Mac [TS]

  users stuff and you tell me which which Mac user macworld which one would see [TS]

  more reasonable on a blog today it's very clear Mac user was in that they [TS]

  were they were much looser and had more voice than that I remember arguing with [TS]

  fellow editorial staff resign my college newspaper trucks all 94 95 96 about [TS]

  which was better and two other guys who really really you know both India [TS]

  braiding and pursuing careers in writing or thinking about the least and where [TS]

  Magners and read both magazines monthly the other two guys Adam and Andrew both [TS]

  on them out come on back roads better magazine because I think that they were [TS]

  looking at that you know like you said like it's a little bit more like a time [TS]

  magazine magazine polished and well as always very polished didn't like polish [TS]

  but it it to me I'm I R good member my argument was it just seems to me like [TS]

  the people in Mac user are having more fun doing they're having more fun [TS]

  putting musicians out and I was like why why would you want to get into this if [TS]

  it wasn't too have fun when I was a great I mean I still stand with those [TS]

  people from Mac user and I i dont know I assume that the macro people stay in [TS]

  touch too I really can't speak to that side but we were it was agreed it was a [TS]

  great group of people and that was yeah we're very proud of our product I would [TS]

  say that it was less polished only in in calculated ways like you wanted to look [TS]

  a little wacky and and and be a little messier because that shows the [TS]

  personality but it was not like we didn't know what we were doing it was [TS]

  like you know let's that was what we were trying to do it's like a band [TS]

  making an album that sounds raw and super produced its because you want it [TS]

  that the effect you want and and honestly if you're if you're the number [TS]

  two then you don't want to pretend to be number one you want to do something [TS]

  different and that was very definitely number 22 macworld so that was what we [TS]

  did and it's it's just funny that in the end in the end I spent 17 years old but [TS]

  if you'd asked me the first three years I was working in the business of you go [TS]

  Mac relate those guys [TS]

  and and Brandon I'm most associated with in my career which is just crazy and [TS]

  every now and then on Twitter I get there two things I get like there's an [TS]

  alarm that goes up every three months or so somebody sends me a thing saying is [TS]

  this you at the at the iPod announcement event because there is a reversal of the [TS]

  audience a couple of times and I minute I'm totally yes it is me and the other [TS]

  one that pops up is hey I was watching this rerun of friends and there's and [TS]

  Chandler is reading an issue of Macworld and I thought you know and they think of [TS]

  me and they're like oh isn't this cool it wasn't friends and I appreciate that [TS]

  because of thinking of me in connection with the brand that's great I was a Mac [TS]

  user with that episode was so pissed off at Macworld Chandler would have been a [TS]

  Mac user guide yeah I know you could he be more of a Mac user guide but in the [TS]

  end now I like I love it because there's a mad magazine and friends that's great [TS]

  that would be that guy would read computer magazine that was shorthand for [TS]

  what kind of a nerd he was and that's great but it's funny cuz that's how far [TS]

  I've come around now is at the time it was just it infuriating cuz our [TS]

  arch-enemy got on must see TV on NBC and now I look back and it's like a look at [TS]

  my friends it's great it's just it you know that's what happens I end up [TS]

  spending 17 years at what was originally the arch enemy I i imagine that's not [TS]

  using the baseball metaphor but I imagine that's what it's like if you [TS]

  like a giant fan and then you end up getting drafted by the Dodgers and play [TS]

  for the Dodgers suck well you know now I'm a Dodger fan it's great but I'm not [TS]

  there anymore and I'm here or that your son or something you know we're just [TS]

  changes your perception after who gives a crap you know you know this plan for [TS]

  the Red Sox you know next day you're going out you're buying a lot of Red Sox [TS]

  and then before before we leave the subject the last thing I wanted to touch [TS]

  on those that Apple terrible shape 96 97 print industry as a whole [TS]

  almost unspeakable II high at that time like buchanan you think in hindsight [TS]

  what how could that be because I think in hindsight we can all see the writing [TS]

  was on [TS]

  war that newspaper and magazine publishers didn't get the internet still [TS]

  don't to a large extent and that it even if they did that way that it was gonna [TS]

  affect advertising revenue and the time that people spend reading and how they [TS]

  spend reading it was all going to be massively disrupted and you'd think by [TS]

  97 98 [TS]

  that would have been evident but it wasn't because profits were at an [TS]

  all-time high and I say this as someone who was at the time working as a graphic [TS]

  designer at the philadelphia inquirer [TS]

  they had the money was a mean that was where all the advertising was there was [TS]

  no there was momentum on the internet people were getting interested in it but [TS]

  there was no money would be crazy and I you know I had somebody tell me we're [TS]

  not interested in doing a web page is the future is on compuserve I mean it [TS]

  was just they were not there was so much money in print advertising my computer [TS]

  shopper which was also is if Davis property when I was at the Davis that [TS]

  was like a phone book that came out every month and all it was was adds [TS]

  there was enough editorial to allow them to use the editorial rate when they [TS]

  shifted in the in the post [TS]

  postal service but it was it was not meant as an editorial product was a [TS]

  catalog and that was just literally we just made a thing so you can put your [TS]

  ads in this thing and then we'll send it out that we could I was the world that [TS]

  and the reason why was because the only way that as somebody who is going to be [TS]

  buying external hard drives or skazhi cables or printer cartridges are all of [TS]

  the various crap that you needed to buy to keep your office running you needed [TS]

  something like computer shopper so that you could see what was available and [TS]

  what it costs and that was how you shop for stuff I'm when I write when the [TS]

  macro thing happen and I was going to xoxo Patel from the birds immune email [TS]

  and said would you like to Reddit reddit thing we're scanning about old metal [TS]

  covers which led to read a thing about the fundamentals in prison I said sure [TS]

  and that was that was what I ended up going with his I thought ok verges [TS]

  audiences is pretty young they may not even remember [TS]

  computer magazines anything because of an oddity you see in an airport or [TS]

  something and that was the point I made was there was a time when the only way [TS]

  you found out about a new product and the only way you found like what you [TS]

  could buy was by buying a computer magazines like the computer magazine [TS]

  would come out and you would you would pore over the pages to find out what [TS]

  Apple announced tour with Microsoft announced or whatever you were [TS]

  interested in and then in the backyard leaf through and be like you know what [TS]

  monitor should I get or what cable can I get an you know there's an ad here for [TS]

  you no 1 800 max and here's Mac warehouse over here in club back over [TS]

  there and you you pour over that stuff and I did that I mean I would go through [TS]

  those issues [TS]

  ten twenty times parsing every sentence about which powerbook I wanted to buy [TS]

  and parsing every list of products in the different back of the magazine [TS]

  catalogs for the best you know the best deal on some accessory in the new colony [TS]

  hundred-number and giving your credit card and then ship it to you and you get [TS]

  it like five days later that was the way though the tech world worked now it's [TS]

  really different back then that was the magazine was not the only but almost the [TS]

  only conduit for that information [TS]

  people just did not see the destruction coming newspapers is classified at right [TS]

  thing needed to buy like you need to run it you got a new apartment moving out of [TS]

  town and by September you've got to find a new place to live with the only way to [TS]

  do it was today to use a newspaper there was there was no plan B is it was [TS]

  essentially a monopoly just because of the you know that they were the only [TS]

  ones maybe there's a weekly I will say the one thing that I think was a sign in [TS]

  hindsight of the magazine stuff on the part was all of those catalogs started [TS]

  printing you know they they started doing all their money into cadillacs [TS]

  like we're gonna print catalog in the mail order companies just became [TS]

  catalogs and they they they took the hit on postage in hindsight I also think [TS]

  they should just hired a couple of young editors to wrap enough content around it [TS]

  to call it a magazine Mac warehouse magazine but and that actually really [TS]

  put that was the first time I think this computer magazines really felt the pain [TS]

  of [TS]

  of their ad revenues going down was the catalogues were like a guaranteed seller [TS]

  for them and then suddenly they would pull out and go back down to a couple of [TS]

  pages because you know they would they would rent the list from Macworld and [TS]

  then send everybody who gets macworld the catalog and it was cheaper and it [TS]

  was less money for Macworld and that totally happened so that there were some [TS]

  signs right that things were starting to break apart and computer readers are [TS]

  always going to be the first one to embrace that new technology so I always [TS]

  knew that they would be the ones to we would we would feel it first and we will [TS]

  delete it [TS]

  yeah and it's it's the same reason why ten fifteen years ago [TS]

  blogs first started becoming a thing that so many of them were technology [TS]

  focus adjusted unbelievably disproportionate number of them are [TS]

  technology focus compared to the interests of the world at large because [TS]

  the people who are enthusiastic about technology you were able to get up and [TS]

  that's the story of my life which is a nice job at a publisher and so when I [TS]

  wanted to experiment with blogs I couldn't really read about technology [TS]

  because it was my day job so you know all those great tech blogs being founded [TS]

  then and I didn't like a stupid TV blog which was great and it was early in the [TS]

  days of blogging and I learned a lot but that was one of those funny things that [TS]

  I ended up experimenting in all of these other areas because my employer wasn't [TS]

  that interested in experimenting and who's there that's you know that's why [TS]

  do so many side projects is four years my employer wasn't interested in trying [TS]

  those things out there were there we're looking at where all the money was [TS]

  coming from which is that that's the core of the innovator's dilemma right is [TS]

  very hard to focus on something when there is this giant second money rain [TS]

  for any let me take a break and thank for sponsoring the show [TS]

  it is our good friends at pack place you guys know back please [TS]

  online unrivaled unlimited backup for the mac and people write to me sometimes [TS]

  there's unlimited what do you mean and I'm town yet whatever you've got [TS]

  connected to you [TS]

  you've got three terabyte drive 6 terabyte drive in its all filled up with [TS]

  junk Backblaze will back it doesn't matter they don't charge extra if you [TS]

  have more it just takes longer for the initial backup that's if there's a catch [TS]

  that's it that if you've got six terabytes of stuff to back up well it's [TS]

  going to take a long time to get a backup backup backup and then it just [TS]

  everything else is incremental after that you just install back place on your [TS]

  Mac I can't emphasize how some pluses install it you sign up for an account [TS]

  you don't have to pay for a month free [TS]

  try it out everything gets backed up and then what do you do from that point [TS]

  forward to stay backed up nothing you just keep your Mac running and it runs [TS]

  in the background and every once in awhile just uploads what's new [TS]

  keeps everything they've got an iPhone app so that you can access your account [TS]

  which will get you access to anything any of your files that are back-to-back [TS]

  plays you can just grab them from the iPhone app at any time [TS]

  email right there from your iPhone or whatever when you're away from your Mac [TS]

  so it's got plenty of uses that are not just about catastrophic oh my God my [TS]

  whole computer is broken [TS]

  whole hard drive froze up I've got nothing I need to restore everything [TS]

  they can deal with that but it's also useful for just restoring one file at a [TS]

  time when you're on the road at somewhere else and you just need to grab [TS]

  it could not be more useful either way when you do need a full thing if you [TS]

  need your whole system restored you don't have to wait to download the whole [TS]

  thing you can you can pay a little bit of money and put everything on a USB [TS]

  hard drive and overnight it to you and then boom they are the next day with [TS]

  hard drive with all of your stuff unbelievable peace of mind knowing [TS]

  you've got everything backed up offline out of your house out of your office [TS]

  where do you go to find out more I can't believe there's still people who listen [TS]

  to the show [TS]

  haven't signed up here's where you go go to Backblaze dot com slash daring [TS]

  fireball you get a risk-free no credit card required trial just install it try [TS]

  it I guarantee you you'll sign up and then after that here's what you pay you [TS]

  pay five bucks a month per Mac that you're backing up that's it [TS]

  five bucks a month everything backed up so my thanks to back place just a [TS]

  tremendous tremendous service really I say that before I say it again I hope [TS]

  they stop sponsoring the show because everybody who listens to the show signed [TS]

  up for them at some point which brings me to a post you had on 66 colors this [TS]

  week about sponsorship that in Goa which you say no other gatekeeper but me and [TS]

  you wrote there one of the privileges of being an editor that before you don't [TS]

  have to worry about that there really was a separation between editorial and [TS]

  sales [TS]

  you know that you just worried about you guys on the editorial side just worried [TS]

  about where you gonna write about and yet to sell stuff that's old stuff and [TS]

  you know in theory told that in theory they could have sold an ad that you guys [TS]

  were you know some somehow uncomfortable with than you could have had a [TS]

  discussion or whatever but for the most part you didn't need to worry about it [TS]

  but now as one person publishing company [TS]

  you do yeah there was a turns out there is a great luxury in being able to be an [TS]

  editor at large organization and winsome that is selling me like we had a bunch [TS]

  of like DVD Ripper apps that were you know spamming or forums and writing [TS]

  these fake post native add posts about that were posing as how to use but it [TS]

  was for their software industry awful gently stuff and we had the luxury of [TS]

  being behind the scenes we would complain about that but we also the [TS]

  luxury of saying hey guys it's not us [TS]

  you know we have sales people they don't tell us what to write and we don't tell [TS]

  them what to sell and when you are in my position and your position I mean you've [TS]

  got right now I don't have anybody selling spots for me but that might [TS]

  happen down the road [TS]

  my recording dial me know you've got somebody said something about it still [TS]

  small operations like you you get you and maybe Dave working on an ad sales [TS]

  and and you know it comes to you you're the proprietor even if you've got [TS]

  somebody selling for you and with podcasts like this when I have somebody [TS]

  to lean on my podcaster you do when you've got your the proprietor [TS]

  even if you've got somebody selling it and you have to make that decision you [TS]

  have to say is okay and and so even if it's not you know every ad is not a [TS]

  personal endorsement and you can't have somebody say that to me and I wrote [TS]

  about it [TS]

  posts like i dont another developer but I know I can look at a developer service [TS]

  or tool and say that's too seems good to me that seems on the up-and-up it's [TS]

  worth it if it's with the audience yeah you can't have you can't have it like I [TS]

  know it sounds great that you would only take a sponsorship from a service or [TS]

  product that you actually use and the deck for a while maybe they still even [TS]

  say that but then with the decades of big 30 site network and its not that [TS]

  hard to say that somebody somewhere in the network is using this thing but when [TS]

  it's just you and it's just me I can't do that now and and it's not even fair [TS]

  like I used BB code something up I used when I accept a sponsorship from Kota of [TS]

  course I would code is an amazing out from a great company and in theory I [TS]

  maybe someday I would use it as my criteria is is this something that I [TS]

  would recommend because I use it that that criteria isn't too limiting is this [TS]

  something that I would recommend readers investigate and consider yes absolutely [TS]

  that's right criteria and has to cross it has a little harder to define but it [TS]

  has to cross that level to be [TS]

  something you feel comfortable on one level it's just to be comfortable with [TS]

  it and say I think this is a legitimate product all that again I don't wanna [TS]

  throw the guys under the bus who did that sponsorship of the fact it and they [TS]

  have a story and I think part of the problem is a language barrier and [TS]

  although I'm skeptical of that product and tell iris products including iOS [TS]

  computer virus that seems really shady to me and they have you know again they [TS]

  have a marketing story that I think they're not telling effectively but the [TS]

  bottom line was I don't believe in iOS antivirus I don't think that's a thing [TS]

  and I don't think I think my audience doesn't think that's the thing and I'm [TS]

  skeptical about Mac antivirus but at least I'm a little more open minded [TS]

  about that and so when it when I posted this thing which you know I didn't I [TS]

  didn't read the stuff closely when I gotta cuz I was traveling and I put it [TS]

  up in like before as I was going out the door and then people started saying what [TS]

  the hell is this and I you know I didn't have an answer for them and that was [TS]

  that moment you know if i dont can't conceive of somebody asking me and me [TS]

  having an answer that's probably not a product as if I'm not comfortable [TS]

  standing by it to that point not saying I tried it not like it but I think this [TS]

  is a reasonable reasonable person would think that this product is interesting [TS]

  and you should check it out that that to me would be the difference and so you [TS]

  know while sitting in the passenger seat of my car i didnt blew up while I drove [TS]

  the first leg of the second leg and I opened up my phone unlike OG's and in [TS]

  the course of an hour I responded to the tweets about it look more at at at at [TS]

  the company's responses thought about it a little bit and then I actually opened [TS]

  up you know I transmit for iOS and edited the include file for the sponsor [TS]

  my server and I took it out and i deleted their post and I posted a tweet [TS]

  about it and I sent an email to the guy saying look I'm gonna get a refund your [TS]

  money but I'm not going to I'm not gonna run the ad cause I'm not comfortable [TS]

  with it my audience is comfortable with it and actually got a text from Lex [TS]

  Friedman saying what it what if I what if I sell that spot for you I said sure [TS]

  go ahead [TS]

  you want to sell it and he did and I posted the new ad all all from sitting [TS]

  in the [TS]

  passenger seat of my car my phone which is a pretty fun like technology story [TS]

  but but yeah it was it was educational I couldn't run and hide behind the sales [TS]

  people and you're you're in the exact same boat and Jim Dalrymple is in the [TS]

  same boat all of us who are out here doing this thing we aren't we aren't [TS]

  insulated like so we have to make different rules and and there is an [TS]

  expectation that some people have that when we read an ad on podcaster or post [TS]

  a sponsor on our sites that it's a personal endorsement and what I will say [TS]

  is if I have used the product I will and I want to talk about that I will talk [TS]

  about it but you're not your money doesn't buy my personal endorsement my [TS]

  personal endorsement can't be for sale that's the flip side of the family is [TS]

  impractical to try every product and not every product is for you even though you [TS]

  know what's good [TS]

  the flip side is I want the freedom to evaluate every product that I want to [TS]

  and if I'm selling evaluations that calls the whole thing into questions you [TS]

  have to you know those rules are very different than if you're in a big [TS]

  editorial organization we still have to kind of come up with the rules and tried [TS]

  to disclose them to your audience as best you can I think but it was a good [TS]

  lesson for me I'll tell you that antivirus falls into it interesting [TS]

  crevice it's a close call and and I would say that the sibling antivirus our [TS]

  system clean up utilities oh yeah yeah and I don't think I've ever taken a [TS]

  sponsorship for a antivirus because I really do believe strongly that you not [TS]

  only don't need it on a Mac but you actually caught typically cause more [TS]

  harm than good [TS]

  really do believe that and you know for iOS that even more so I think it's at [TS]

  that point you're talking about snake oil [TS]

  now there's possible you know I don't know the case of this month so you're [TS]

  talking about it possible that you could use something on iOS that would have [TS]

  something to do with antivirus where you're scanning email attachments [TS]

  somehow I think that's what they're doing is this attachment in your email [TS]

  and maybe in your Dropbox or stuff like that right [TS]

  viruses but it's not going to affect your your iOS device right it's not so [TS]

  hard for me to come up with a what if scenario where it would have some actual [TS]

  practical utility in theory but I don't see how it exactly it's not actually [TS]

  doing anti piracy at the system level on iOS like what you think of traditional [TS]

  and simplified a marketing message and its protect your right your iPhone and [TS]

  that's not right and that's that's I think that's where a lot of this this [TS]

  comes from and they clean up utilities are to me it's a little bit more like [TS]

  the antivirus to me is a little bit more on the dark side of the gray area and [TS]

  the cleanup utilities are little bit more on the light side but I have have [TS]

  have had sponsors who run you know clean up utilities and I think it's been [TS]

  awhile I remember somebody on Twitter one time just you know they weren't [TS]

  being antagonistic they weren't trying to to to jab me but it was an honest [TS]

  question nearly do you use this would you recommend it and I remember thinking [TS]

  like probably not and I kind of felt a little like I didn't take the [TS]

  sponsorship back and I don't quite regret it but it was closest I've ever [TS]

  come because I wasn't sure because I don't think a lot of that stuff is all [TS]

  that useful either I feel like part of the genius of the OS 10 system design is [TS]

  that you don't typically get the system doesn't degrade over time did happen [TS]

  with classic Mac OS in if you weren't careful they want a Mac I mean so many [TS]

  of these things happen because it's like we have a problem with an injury product [TS]

  we need products and they can't really do much but they want to have that that [TS]

  spread of products and so they come out with one although you know clean up [TS]

  especially with SSDs there's totally and they may be out there but it's totally a [TS]

  good case to be made for clean that's doing smart things like you got [TS]

  preferences from [TS]

  apps from 2004 that you that you migrated and you've got duplicate files [TS]

  in all these different places and you get iTunes Match turned on but like so I [TS]

  could save a lot of space by deleting your music folder stuff like that there [TS]

  there is an argument to be made but you're right then you get into details [TS]

  until I can do I really believe in this particular product enough to not enough [TS]

  to endorse it but enough to expose my audience to it that cause there is there [TS]

  is some understanding between between us and our audiences that some of the stuff [TS]

  going to be vetted at least right on the up-and-up right not necessarily we [TS]

  endorse it news personally but it's on the up and up and I i think thats right [TS]

  I think they should expect that from us that the next date all the way back to [TS]

  next but that the cocoa preferences system is so braindead super simple it's [TS]

  you know it's not genius because it's this complicated genius system it's [TS]

  genius because just simple it's like one of the simplest stupidest things they [TS]

  could do where each app has a unique identifier and they just use domain name [TS]

  so like you know like bare-bones its com dot bare-bones . BBEdit yeah . plist [TS]

  file goes in your library preferences folder and it's guaranteed to be unique [TS]

  because that domain name belongs to bare bones that they get to control that you [TS]

  know there's com dot Apple . male for male and it's just a file and the app [TS]

  reads from that file and your preferences and if you delete BBEdit and [TS]

  that com dot bare-bones . you to delete the app that files is sitting there it's [TS]

  only a couple hundred kilobytes and it never gets in the way it's not like a [TS]

  database that's getting gummed up it's just a file in the folder in your you [TS]

  know there is no harm so if you've tried fifty different text editors and then [TS]

  settled on one those 49 preferences files in your preferences folder don't [TS]

  slow a damn thing down [TS]

  know it's gonna be when you get adobe cs4 and cs5 cs6 in there or on the other [TS]

  hand like something like well I never use GarageBand so I delete the garage [TS]

  band that man has a four hundred mega loops and loops yeah there's there's so [TS]

  there's like a huge Application Support folder relatively huge compared to most [TS]

  ads that you know and again if you're on an SSD and space is at a premium because [TS]

  you know like the default SSD is still a 256 gigabytes you could save some [TS]

  serious space and it's hidden away now that the library folders invisible by [TS]

  the fall [TS]

  foremost you know 44 new user accounts it's not something you know I can see [TS]

  how a cleaning utility could actually help like a typical user if it was [TS]

  carefully written you know but it's a borderline call can I tell you about my [TS]

  favorite my favorite preference joke at Adobe of course there is in mind me [TS]

  being yours too I don't know in my user library folder so guilty / library [TS]

  there's a folder the Application Support folder right which is where you're [TS]

  supposed to read all your folders I reread your preference files I also have [TS]

  a folder in my library called application support / Adobe / Acrobat as [TS]

  the name of the folder I don't even know that I didn't even know that was allowed [TS]

  to have / as in a in a folder named but somehow they did it [TS]

  you magnificent bastard who did it and I just makes me want to delete it and yet [TS]

  every time I see it it just makes me laugh like how incompetent is that good [TS]

  job here in the Application Support folder totally nailed it [TS]

  screenshot it's it's super nerdy [TS]

  but that was actually went when when the next acquisition was made and where we [TS]

  gonna make one operating system with the best of everything one of the problems [TS]

  was next was a traditional UNIX system that uses / as the directory separator [TS]

  so / was not a backslash but you know / was something that you couldn't put into [TS]

  a file named her folder named you try to type it would give you a minus or [TS]

  something right but HFS Apple disc format where circus oh well whatever HFS [TS]

  used system file system used a colon colon was the separate raids are you [TS]

  couldn't type of colon in a name so you could type slashes and sauce you know [TS]

  like a publication you might preach [TS]

  issue of a newspaper a weekly newspaper I think maybe we did you know it would [TS]

  be like you know month / week month or year / month / date and so we had all [TS]

  these things that slashes in the actual file names and there was seem like [TS]

  something's gotta give here but there was a white paper he wrote it but I met [TS]

  him [TS]

  there's an ex engineer wrote a white papers figuring out a way to is [TS]

  conveniently solve it [TS]

  bottom line you know the bottom line the penalty we had to pay is that you can't [TS]

  have a colon or a slashing funding for real but you can look it looks like you [TS]

  have a slash in filename it somehow is fake like when it looks like you're / in [TS]

  a filename it's not a slash of it but it all worked out it actually did work out [TS]

  we had we had that we have a catastrophe where we we we did that we at some point [TS]

  at Macworld changed our founding form it used to be the volume number in the [TS]

  issue numbers so it'd be like 16 / 04 and that was the whatever that was April [TS]

  of cd4 + 16 Friday April 2000 issue and when I was 10 and we moved in Malta [TS]

  dashes because we are afraid there was a period where I was 10 would not let you [TS]

  input the / it would it would transmog refine it on the fly to a dash dash is [TS]

  where dangerous and to this day my scripts I have to do a lot of you know [TS]

  POSIX path stuff because if you get if you get an alias in the Finder it comes [TS]

  in with colon delimited and then there are other tools that wanted as a as a as [TS]

  a UNIX path of POSIX path and you have to do like POSIX pass path of alias in [TS]

  order to get it in the right format so that you can you can send it to a script [TS]

  or something [TS]

  yeah I don't think anybody is is more familiar with the crazy rules over how [TS]

  to specify HFS versus you passed than anybody's really Apple script it's why [TS]

  is this not working right [TS]

  now it needs to be in a UNIX [TS]

  inevitably without a script boy we are in the weeds now you you used to shell [TS]

  script which is an incredible Boone Apple script to be able to fire off a [TS]

  unix script and get a result that it's great but if you're using something in [TS]

  the Finder UNIX shell script doesn't understand those Collins so you need to [TS]

  convert it and then you sent it off and so that yeah that happens all the time [TS]

  yeah I do that with markdown actually that that was one of the things I would [TS]

  always do is i'd like grab something in return marked down and get the results [TS]

  back that you got to get the right to wear what we talked about before file [TS]

  system well all days next couple sponsors sponsored conflicts I think [TS]

  that's where ya i think thats probably I remember in the early days of doin [TS]

  sponsorships during fireball weekly one that I was telling myself the first [TS]

  conflict I can remember having was in this is the time to remember it for a [TS]

  brief period there was some controversy over app bundles oh yeah yeah definitely [TS]

  you know like those you would like and I [TS]

  come out sort of against him as sort of devaluing software at least the extreme [TS]

  ones really getting you know an inordinate amount of software for a [TS]

  seemingly absurd low price and then a bundle wanted to sponsor them fireball [TS]

  and I don't know I was very active member which bundle it was but I was [TS]

  very conflicted because I felt like on the one hand I've just written against [TS]

  them but on the other hand you know it's a good deal it is what it is you know [TS]

  and nobody you know it's not like the bundles were putting these absent the [TS]

  bundles without their permission was you know i think im wind up going with it I [TS]

  did it I took it because I thought you know it's in some sense you you have to [TS]

  be the publisher you know every publication there never really was a [TS]

  wall between editorial and advertising even a big organization it might have [TS]

  seemed like a wall in the trenches yes but eventually you work up the check the [TS]

  chain and there's a person whose responsibility and are typically their [TS]

  title was like publisher certainly newspaper industry that was the title is [TS]

  somebody who is concerned with both things for me I mean that's what I was [TS]

  said about my job is that i sat on that i sat on the top of the wall and as I [TS]

  got to shield my people from the stuff that was happening on the other side of [TS]

  the world's best I could but my boss was the president of the company and the [TS]

  head of city was either the head of sales themselves or the head of sales [TS]

  reported to them and at that level you know they were always conversations now [TS]

  again my job was to kind of steer them in the right direction and protect my [TS]

  people from it but you know ultimately yes if you have if you have a business [TS]

  the business people are going to have demands that they're going to want to [TS]

  make and then it becomes part of the game to negotiate and get things back in [TS]

  a in a place that everybody can live with that is not you know for the [TS]

  editorial side that is it was always part of my job at the top is harder you [TS]

  know what you're saying it's like now it's all exposed this is it's this guy [TS]

  here the guy you gotta you gotta do it you gotta you gotta make that decision [TS]

  right but overall you know in seven years ish 78 years of selling weekly [TS]

  sponsorships there have been very few times where it's come up i mean NNN [TS]

  never even been very few times that I've had to reject a sponsor seems like they [TS]

  know I'm hoping I'm hoping that actually is a part of this it's partly me and [TS]

  it's also partly just in the environment that it's it's [TS]

  I'm hoping it doesn't happen this was one out of like 16 [TS]

  don't even know what twelve weeks 10 to 14 weeks something like that [TS]

  well and like I said you I really do think that antivirus and cleaning [TS]

  utilities are sort of especially in and I said darker side is the antivirus are [TS]

  exception that there are can't think of any other topic you know it's sort of [TS]

  advertiser that in that area well I could say I could see him again I don't [TS]

  think I would come down on the side of not running out for them but you know [TS]

  there are a lot of a lot of memes that go through our our community and our [TS]

  audiences as they enter all interconnected right i the thing with [TS]

  six colors when I see you post a link and I'm like well I could post a link to [TS]

  that but everybody's reading John sites or do I even need to bother actually [TS]

  just like to join LinkedIn page [TS]

  think about it you know we are all kind of in the same ecosystem together and [TS]

  there are some of the means that come out like there's the whole you know if [TS]

  you're not paying for the product and then you're the you're what they're [TS]

  selling and I could see something like that coming up where there's some [TS]

  products that is going to sponsor you and what they're really wanting [TS]

  obviously it's free and isn't it great and i could see people being like hey [TS]

  that's you know that's no good there's this other developers trying to sell it [TS]

  these guys are doing it free and they're just gonna get our information and all [TS]

  that I could see scenario like that although it doesn't seem to have come up [TS]

  up to now but I could I could see something like that that would be [TS]

  unpopular with part of the community because it seems to be the kind of thing [TS]

  that we all rail against like what you were saying about the app bundle but I [TS]

  think it's encouraging that you haven't seen a lot of [TS]

  that and it's and it's good but i i think it's worth you know this is so [TS]

  inside baseball but I think it's worth people hearing that it's not like we [TS]

  don't think about these issues and take them seriously and honestly I think [TS]

  that's one of the downsides of the big organizations with the separation of [TS]

  church and state is there's a clear message and I think people even get [TS]

  trained to expected from everybody [TS]

  which is you know we don't care like the editors of the ones you talk to have no [TS]

  power [TS]

  you never hear you never talk to the salespeople the organization doesn't [TS]

  really care less if they were serious black eye for the organization and so [TS]

  you know why even bother they're just gonna be crazy stuff against advertised [TS]

  and with us you know we do take it seriously and that's no that's not true [TS]

  that's not how we wanted to be i mean there's also reason that our sites don't [TS]

  have junk all over them because that's crappy but some big organizations have [TS]

  no problem [TS]

  littering their sites with with junk Jay Rosen whose teaches journalism at NYU [TS]

  and you know big presence in sort of the whole inside baseball world of online [TS]

  journalism but I think he said I want to put words in his mouth but something to [TS]

  the effect of if you work at a publication doesn't matter whether it's [TS]

  print or online or both or whether it's new or old but if it's big enough you [TS]

  know that it's not just like a one person but it's big and you can you can [TS]

  be isolated and just concentrate on editorial if you don't understand the [TS]

  business model of the publication years [TS]

  screwed you're not you're not being responsible and you're probably screwed [TS]

  it all the way he freezes you should quit your job which is probably a little [TS]

  extreme but she's not wrong that you should you should understand why your [TS]

  company does what it does and what decisions they're making and whether [TS]

  they're good or not and you know i over the years I have been fortunate to work [TS]

  with a bunch of incredibly talented people but what I will say is I was [TS]

  always surprised at how some incredibly intelligent talented people [TS]

  would have no conception about how parts of our business worked even though some [TS]

  of that was communicated fairly clearly and some of that has to do with frame of [TS]

  reference and some of that has to do with not wanting to hear it does if [TS]

  you're trained as a journalist and you hear from the sales guys in the business [TS]

  people it's very easy to put that in the box is like that's not my concern in [TS]

  fact it's my duty tonight even pay attention to that the lowest surprise me [TS]

  that I would hear even up to the end and one of the things rosen points out to is [TS]

  that you need to know the difference between what product people refer to as [TS]

  product and what editorial people refer to as product which is super important [TS]

  because the media today so much of what happens at these sites is based on the [TS]

  product roadmap and product managers and developers and you know the product is [TS]

  not just the words on the website the product is the features of the website [TS]

  in the design of the website and and and tools that editors can use to build [TS]

  things on the web site and if you're thinking of the product is being what [TS]

  you write or as product is being some weird amorphous sales thing you are you [TS]

  have a really distorted view of what your businesses and that's probably not [TS]

  but probably not a healthy place to be and I would have that where I would have [TS]

  people talking about a charter or developers or marketing people people [TS]

  not in ad sales and the end people who'd been at the company for a long time [TS]

  would say oh well those are you know their sales people say no they're not [TS]

  sales people there there are other parts of the business that our editorial but [TS]

  they're not salespeople and you know that I understand why people would [TS]

  cultivate a simplified you in the sense of like I just don't wanna hear it I [TS]

  don't want to know about it but in reality I think it is a good thing to [TS]

  know about that stuff and understand it and understand your place in it and then [TS]

  if it doesn't make you comfortable it certainly makes you a better judge of [TS]

  whether the decisions or businesses making our solid or are bad or desperate [TS]

  and if you are in any position to determine what kind of stuff is going to [TS]

  go in the product right then knowing where your business going to actually [TS]

  help you can actually get some good ideas or helps have a bigger voice in [TS]

  deciding what [TS]

  what gets built next so I i dont have peace while a little bit I P and saying [TS]

  you should quit your job as a little bit rich he's not wrong about a lot of those [TS]

  points that you really should understand the business the European yeah I think [TS]

  he he has a sort of battered to overstated and understated style yeah [TS]

  without without going into sensation trying to communicate some of the stuff [TS]

  I mean like I said some of this europe you're trying to battle against Lowell I [TS]

  don't wanna hear it it's not my job it's in the business side I'm an editor I [TS]

  need to hear it you kind of do need to shout sometimes I know pay attention to [TS]

  this especially something like the difference between what you know [TS]

  product I mean that that's come up in a bunch of cases where people have angrily [TS]

  left various websites startups who are editorial people like oh they're just [TS]

  there just in it for the product and it's like i dealt with the end Aaron and [TS]

  I G I worked with a really great product manager and he and I spent a lot of time [TS]

  talking about ways we could improve the product unfortunately most of those [TS]

  things never got prioritized but that was a great experience because we were [TS]

  working together [TS]

  editorial and product management to identify things that would make the [TS]

  website better and and and sometimes it's better to refer to it that way than [TS]

  to say the product because that sounds a little bit like you're selling something [TS]

  but the fact is you know my editors were frustrated by the fact that all they [TS]

  could really do is put texts in the CMS and why can't we do this and why can't [TS]

  we do that and the answer was what we could do that if we worked with the [TS]

  product group but you gotta speak their language and that is a challenge so I i [TS]

  appreciate when we're sort of waves his hand like hey pay attention this is [TS]

  really important because a lot of people in journalism don't want to hear that [TS]

  they want to just work and it's a natural response right now I'm just [TS]

  gonna do my thing that I'm comfortable with but I think it leads to bad bad [TS]

  places I think it's it's a dangerous dangerous to use the word religion but I [TS]

  do feel like casual way it [TS]

  the belief that if you're a journalist that you should almost like obligated [TS]

  and a moral sense to not pay attention to the business side was ingrained in at [TS]

  least a generation maybe several generations especially at a ton of its [TS]

  especially us' centric or not but it certainly seems owned the newspaper [TS]

  industry that it was just almost almost religious that it was you know and and [TS]

  it was only sustainable because newspapers worst said they had a [TS]

  monopoly they were incredibly profits a license to print money I remember when I [TS]

  was at the enquirer there was a time where they had in this is an elite [TS]

  nineties where they had buyouts because they had a quarter where their profit [TS]

  margin was 19% they were at the inquiry was a knight-ridder paper and they were [TS]

  so they 20% less like this [TS]

  red line in the sand you know a line in the sand and you know they did they [TS]

  dipped to nineteen and a relay instantly went into red alert sirens went off and [TS]

  they like but people out and it was crazy like this [TS]

  an East Coast thing called Metro its free daily newspaper I don't know if [TS]

  they're still around here in Philly but it was they they were a FREE daily and [TS]

  they set up most of the kiosks commuter entrances subway entrances bus stops not [TS]

  real thick but you know you know it was definitely a competitor to you know the [TS]

  enquirer in the daily news and you know because if you could read the Metro for [TS]

  free and finna no finish it before you got where you're going you had no reason [TS]

  to buy the Inquirer Daily News [TS]

  and it led to a crazy scenarios like the guy who is in charge I i as do graphic [TS]

  design work I did I worked with a lot of the classified advertising people and [TS]

  did a lot of the promotional stuff that they needed to sell to give to people [TS]

  like the guy was a great guy forget his name but he was in charge of auto [TS]

  advertising classified advertising which is huge huge huge business took the [TS]

  buyout which was like two or three years salary and a week later he took the job [TS]

  is the automotive a guy at Metro at the Metro like and it was like they just [TS]

  paid him three years salary to go and start selling ads at a rival while they [TS]

  were still incredibly profitable I mean I've definitely experienced the layoffs [TS]

  while we're profitable where the where the business people alike know we're [TS]

  profitable we're gonna make a profit or profitable and then they lay off 10 [TS]

  people and there is nothing worse than saying you can't work here anymore [TS]

  because we're not quite making enough profit and that's a disconnected [TS]

  business i mean they're their businesses that are all about looking for growth [TS]

  and investment and their businesses that are just trying to be sustainable [TS]

  profitable businesses that can employ a bunch of people and and that too is part [TS]

  of the disconnect of like not understanding what kind of business you [TS]

  work for and what their metrics are not on a very detailed level of like what's [TS]

  the bonus that structure for the sales people but to understand like what are [TS]

  they looking for and you know what what are they what do they expect from us and [TS]

  what's the growth in some some of that is has to come from the top and you know [TS]

  in my years I would get a very varying degree of that depending on who the CEO [TS]

  was of you know what we show the employees and do a varying degree the [TS]

  employees wanted to or didn't want to hear it but I think it's just a [TS]

  dangerous situation to be into not understand what kind of company you're [TS]

  working for and what they're what their goals are any knight-ridder at least it [TS]

  was clear that 20% was the line and if you weren't showing 20 percent profit [TS]

  margin that was that was red alert time boys and I think I think the danger [TS]

  there is that it seems very clear like because I wasn't involved I wasn't gonna [TS]

  be my career is tied it wasn't there [TS]

  even full time I was always like a contractor but I loved the business and [TS]

  you know I loved it but my view from Mike the ground floor and just looking [TS]

  at the whole thing was that it was so clear to me once I got in and sort of [TS]

  got the gist of how will it require around at the time that the people who [TS]

  are it in that building working on a newspaper where incredible people I [TS]

  absolutely amazing people I forget the exact years but there is a stretch from [TS]

  Mike the mid-eighties to mid nineties were the philadelphia inquirer one more [TS]

  Pulitzer Prizes than any newspaper in the us- it was a tremendous tremendously [TS]

  and eventually all these this great talented and wound up working at the New [TS]

  York Times and The Washington Post Newsweek and Time they dealt to my house [TS]

  and went to these other places but at the time it was amazing and they you [TS]

  know we're dedicated to the craft and dedicated to the civic duty of a [TS]

  newspaper in a big metropolitan city and all this stuff but it was so clear that [TS]

  knight-ridder was intended as a corporate of corporate parent didn't [TS]

  give two shits if they were selling widgets or newspapers or whatever as [TS]

  long as they hit that 20 percent profit growth didn't matter what they were [TS]

  doing had no no no no lover interest in what it meant actually be making a [TS]

  newspaper and and you know like we were saying when you're when you get the [TS]

  license print money you can it's a little bit easier to be blissfully [TS]

  ignorant but I i you know I think again somebody could listen to this podcast [TS]

  and say aha [TS]

  here they are they're all admitting that that journalism is not truly objective [TS]

  it's actually affected by what the business does well you know the truth is [TS]

  of course it is unless you are consumer reports or something and even then you [TS]

  have the objective of getting donations and if you don't get them you can't stay [TS]

  in business there is always a fundamental precept of the media [TS]

  business about what they're doing and and what the why they're doing it in [TS]

  like a sports writer at The Philadelphia Inquirer who is from san francisco can't [TS]

  say you know I'm sudden I'm gonna read about the Giants right it's like no no [TS]

  we're in the business of covering Philadelphia and I got that when I went [TS]

  to me [TS]

  user they told me like Apple's big in education but we're not targeting [TS]

  education and like that was that was the target market our target market market [TS]

  wasn't the Mac and it was it was the business market primarily and then [TS]

  secondarily you know other users using it at home but not education why was [TS]

  that because they didn't spend a lot of money and those advertisers to advertise [TS]

  in want to reach them because of that and yeah that was that was focusing what [TS]

  we could write about but you know that's just a fundamental business constraint [TS]

  what you know the subjectivity comes on like on the inside of those constraints [TS]

  like this is what this publication is this what this website years whatever it [TS]

  is and then within their I need to be free to make the decisions about the [TS]

  best way to serve that audience but how do you choose the audience in large part [TS]

  in most of these businesses is your choosing an audience you can make money [TS]

  selling at stew and that's okay but that is a fundamental thing that I mean [TS]

  journalistic freedom only go so far there is a fundamental precept of your [TS]

  business that you do need to follow as much as that guy might like to read [TS]

  about if not the Giants might read about darts or Canadian football or whatever [TS]

  it's like that's not what you're here to do that's not who we serve with with the [TS]

  Philadelphia Inquirer yeah and you have to be able to you know even even in our [TS]

  lean mean you know one person type operations like six colors are down [TS]

  fireball is to have to be able to you know do it in a way that makes sense [TS]

  financially and and the thing that makes me think about that so in a whole it you [TS]

  know ten fifteen years you could very very feasible to just run a weblog out [TS]

  of your pocket you know I think I could I forget what I pay per month for doing [TS]

  really wanted to go for it if I just wanted to do it without any sponsorships [TS]

  are ads or any revenue at all even with the readership I have a think it would [TS]

  be like $100 a month maybe maybe I could probably find a way you could certainly [TS]

  do it for 50 I'm paying 50 and I'm running club herbal in six colors on the [TS]

  saves same server for $50 a month that's not a problem [TS]

  yeah but the reason that Pakistan has exploding has exploded recently is that [TS]

  until recently it was financially unfeasible there is no way [TS]

  way it doesn't seem like that long ago when I started during fireball but it is [TS]

  just no way financially that in 2002 2003 2004 that I could distribute 100 [TS]

  200 megabyte mp3 files to thousands of people what is it would have cost [TS]

  thousands and thousands of dollars and even a couple years ago I think that [TS]

  would be the case [TS]

  know it's it it that the rise and podcasting correlates exactly two when [TS]

  it became financially pretty cheap yes through order lipson or Squarespace or [TS]

  or through a hosting company that gives you a terabyte of data for $50 a month [TS]

  that sort of thing right but until recently there was there was no such [TS]

  thing [TS]

  the bandwidth limits where you know in the low gigabytes or even the high you [TS]

  know hundreds of megabytes and so if your files are you know typical podcast [TS]

  for the show's somewhere around 200 megabytes but sometimes a little ass [TS]

  sometimes a little more depending on how long it is but you know every hundred [TS]

  people at 210 people adds up soon as a pre-release as I didn't I did the math [TS]

  when we were pulling me uncomfortable off of five by five and I was trying to [TS]

  figure out whether we would post that on our own server whether we wanted to use [TS]

  a CD and for it and and I did the math and I was like wow that's a lot of data [TS]

  just on a regular episode of a moderately popular podcast it's a it's a [TS]

  just in five years ago terms an impossible amount of data and tossed [TS]

  aside it wasn't even something people would tolerate you know when they were [TS]

  connecting with very slow connections they might think I'd like to listen to [TS]

  that but Jesus it's going to take on a $2 yeah I remember those days of like [TS]

  you know leave them leave the mask on downloading podcasts and iTunes can take [TS]

  forever right but you really need to understand stuff like that you know you [TS]

  need to know that if you gonna do video you're probably gonna have to hosted [TS]

  YouTube or something like that just because that way you don't have to pay [TS]

  the bill can you better know what the terms are your YouTube then and you know [TS]

  you gonna [TS]

  use YouTube's ads and what percentage do you get is that gonna you know how many [TS]

  people do you need to get is doing YouTube video for you to be able to make [TS]

  a living doing math right yeah you know it's not too complicated but you've got [TS]

  to there's there's all these abstractions r you can't pretend that [TS]

  these things don't exist to worry about them that it doesn't work like that let [TS]

  me take a break good time to take a break and thank another longtime friend [TS]

  of the show our good friends at Squarespace you guys from Squarespace [TS]

  where space is the all-in-one website building hosting / design tool you go to [TS]

  Squarespace you sign up for an account and you can create your own website what [TS]

  type of website something like a blog post the podcast Squarespace [TS]

  handle the audio to another cost effective way yes absolutely you could [TS]

  do a blog you can do a podcast at Squarespace but what if you have a [TS]

  totally different idea in mind something that's more like an online store to sell [TS]

  stuff well guess what Squarespace can do that [TS]

  portfolio maybe you're a designer or photographer something like that you [TS]

  want to create an online portfolio of your work space can do that just about [TS]

  any kind of thing you could need to build a website for Squarespace has [TS]

  those sort of components right there ready for you to drag and drop into your [TS]

  own custom design they have templates to choose from to start with beautiful [TS]

  templates and that they scale right from your phone tablet to 27 inch 5 k red [TS]

  iMac and they have the brand new Squarespace 7 this is the latest version [TS]

  of Squarespace totally redesigned everything is right there you don't have [TS]

  to if you're logged into your account instead of a separate editing mode when [TS]

  you want to change stuff you just do it right there [TS]

  it is sort of the original vision for hypertext where that big complaint [TS]

  against the the world wide web when it came out in 1993 1994 was that editing [TS]

  was something you did in a text editor thrifty P and yeah you know it's him out [TS]

  and browsing with something you didn the browser [TS]

  why can't you read it right there in the browser well that's what Squarespace [TS]

  seven days you just look at what you're looking at it was awake and you drive [TS]

  what you want to drag you take out you wanna take out would you want to add [TS]

  right there in place they've added integration with Google Apps they have a [TS]

  new partnership with Getty Images so if you want to get stock photography stock [TS]

  imagery you could do it right there through the Squarespace partnership with [TS]

  Getty Images 15 of their templates are all brand new specifically for [TS]

  Squarespace seven and all of them are super beautiful [TS]

  the other thing you get with Squarespace definitely worth mentioning every time [TS]

  they sponsor the show is award-winning 24 hours seven days a week [TS]

  tech support be a live chat and email they have teams tech support teams all [TS]

  around the globe which is how they keep going twenty four seven so the matter [TS]

  what time you're working on it whether you're working late at night [TS]

  middle of the night early in the morning Squarespace has tech support ready to [TS]

  help answer any of your questions so where do you go to get started [TS]

  go to Squarespace dot com slash the talk show and you can start a trial with no [TS]

  credit card required and start building your website today [TS]

  using offer code Jay G and you'll get 10% off your first purchase so the URL [TS]

  is myspace.com / the talk show the offer code which you use later on [TS]

  go sign up through that URL than a month later when you're free trials up uses [TS]

  code Gigi and you'll get 10% off your first purchase and support the show so [TS]

  my thanks to Squarespace so what else is going on I don't know anything about [TS]

  this time years it's pretty quiet and talking about going out on my own I used [TS]

  to have like a whole staff would come up with ideas at like stuff you could write [TS]

  that you could put in a system and just sort of have a play out over the last [TS]

  two weeks of the year when nothing was going on and doing this myself I should [TS]

  probably put something there's nothing going on but it's difficult cuz there's [TS]

  really you know there's nothing going on so you end up writing lots of hey let's [TS]

  look back at 2014 and what did we learn and what are my favorite things and I [TS]

  don't know it's a tough it's a tough time here because there isn't a lot of [TS]

  tech stuff going on I've used in the past this year just been busy with [TS]

  suspender crazy busy holiday thing with family and friends and stuff a lot of [TS]

  times I use this period to write something that might take a long time [TS]

  and therefore it you know they have a big thought peace on you know where I [TS]

  what we know about the walk that Apple watching out two or three months later I [TS]

  wish I had more time for him maybe this coming week [TS]

  idea but something like that where it's not as nothing to do with what's new or [TS]

  news but just take advantage of the fact that there isn't any news to really [TS]

  focus on in and write it something like that right [TS]

  yeah I [TS]

  that's one of the things that I've been grappling with it and doing the site is [TS]

  is how do you balance writing you know being a one-person operation right if [TS]

  you're busy writing a deep think piece about something that's going to go on [TS]

  for a thousand words you're not writing things to put on the site today and I [TS]

  feel I feel like with a less established I like mine I definitely feel pressure [TS]

  to keep the lights on every day and try to balance those things and you know you [TS]

  you have a different pace you you can post some links and then you put out a [TS]

  bigger piece every so often and I I like your pace but I don't feel like I am I [TS]

  can do that right now I feel like I need to keep the keep the heart beat a little [TS]

  stronger because I'm trying to establish myself and and pick up and pick up an [TS]

  audience that I may not have you know have captured yet but then I end up in a [TS]

  situation where it's like wow it's gonna take me three days to write a review of [TS]

  the red iMac was an example where it took me like two or three days to write [TS]

  that and one of my challenges was always should I keep reading this now or should [TS]

  I stop and find something short to write and post to the site just to let people [TS]

  know I'm still alive while I'm also writing this longer piece trying to find [TS]

  a balances is is tricky as one of the again not being on a team anymore and [TS]

  being just myself I i've learned the powerful lesson of how little one person [TS]

  is capable of producing versus a staff then every once in a while though I [TS]

  surprised myself and I'm like holy crap I got a lot done a lot published in the [TS]

  last 24 hours like not just like stuff that I've been working on for a long [TS]

  time it happened to finish just be like wow I got like eight links and a full [TS]

  article I can I do this every day well I think I think part of it is is energy [TS]

  and part of it is that that stuff doesn't always happen like that right i [TS]

  mean there are days I I know exactly what you're talking about maybe I didn't [TS]

  recognize me as much before as I do now but there are those days with my god [TS]

  there's like five great links and there's like three articles I could [TS]

  write about things that happened today and those are wonderful days and and [TS]

  maybe a couple of those articles to later in the week can you just keep on [TS]

  writing about it and then other times when it when it's just like wow what is [TS]

  happening nothing is happening and and you know CES is gonna happen next week I [TS]

  think it's always something interesting to read about their even if it's sort of [TS]

  the anti CAS I'm very happy to not be going to CES this year but you know [TS]

  things with the news cycle will will spend up again but you're right it is [TS]

  kinda nice to have that ability to spend time with family or reflect a little bit [TS]

  or work on a longer-term project and you know I've been thinking about that too [TS]

  but with travel it becomes a lot harder to to find the time to do that stuff [TS]

  when you're when you're traveling with family and all that [TS]

  do you have the I know I don't know if you've ever and I happen to know that [TS]

  six colors is running on movable type yes [TS]

  post about that at some point just like gonna come out of the closet and yes I [TS]

  get my it might be the last the last news major site to launch its paws I [TS]

  heard from the people who were doing the current version of movable type cuz I'm [TS]

  using movable-type for which i think people you're using yes yes I don't last [TS]

  a mean joke would be of alaska this five was not so good I heard from the people [TS]

  who are the current support license people for movable type in there like [TS]

  you know that we want to talk maybe we can get your license if we can use you [TS]

  as an example and one on one level that's interesting but then I also was [TS]

  kinda thinking I'm not sure they they added anything that I would actually [TS]

  want and I'm fortunate to have my friend Greg nice is like survived with pearl 41 [TS]

  and movable type 42 and so on in a way I've got an off the shelf you know CMS [TS]

  from five years ago or eight years ago and the guy who can customize it to do [TS]

  whatever and so that's pretty good and I threw out all their templates I didn't [TS]

  use any other templates one adult the site templates it's all original [TS]

  templates but you know sometimes it's just go with what you know and all the [TS]

  movable type is old and weird I also know it like I i i couldnt WordPress but [TS]

  I actually don't know WordPress I would have to learn a lot about WordPress or [TS]

  Squarespace or anything that I was doing in and I thought I've already got the [TS]

  server here it's already raining movable type for some other projects [TS]

  why not [TS]

  just do that I I can do that without learning anything about the CMS and I [TS]

  can just focus on the content and getting the templates live and when I [TS]

  was launching a site in the week that seems like a good idea so you know it's [TS]

  you do you have I am IMT pluggin that led to give you like posting interface [TS]

  from the iPhone I don't think I do see that to me is the game-changer and I [TS]

  don't know and I know that we're press has like a pretty good maybe even better [TS]

  iPhone optimized interface and then I forget who else would I am to you I know [TS]

  Brad choke dat who is a longtime six-part employee wrote the plug in a [TS]

  region it goes back to my 2008 I mean it came out and maybe even 2007 it came out [TS]

  very early it you know it doesn't give you all of movable type it only gives [TS]

  you just pick a blog either picking you make a new entry or edit an existing [TS]

  entry and then when you open an entry just you know here Tuesday fealty shot [TS]

  so I had my little bit just to make it a little bit more specific to how I use [TS]

  the fields but that's what I did with Greg wrote a plugin that does audio [TS]

  processing because [TS]

  podcast Movable Type is problematic because movable type doesn't know like [TS]

  what the white counties and you're supposed to put that in the RSS feed the [TS]

  length of the byte count of the file you're linking to and so he just read a [TS]

  plugin for me that there does that and that means I can keep using it is a [TS]

  little bit like you know when I D person saying I know that there have been five [TS]

  versions of Adobe Photoshop that have come out but we're just gonna stay on [TS]

  diversion 3 because it works for us and we were ok it's a little like that being [TS]

  on this old CMS but it works fine and if the point that it doesn't work fine it's [TS]

  got a perfectly reasonable database format and I could migrate it somewhere [TS]

  else but you know what I said knowing somebody who can write a movable type [TS]

  plug in [TS]

  in in a few hours to solve a problem helps a lot I could do anything with six [TS]

  colors though it's so simple in Kabul as much crazier it's a movable type but [TS]

  it's got like multiple blogs and they're all related to each other so it's like [TS]

  the incomparable is no longer one thing right right cuz its metal podcast so [TS]

  we've got we've gotta podcasts blogs and episodes blog and they they [TS]

  inter-related that's how you can generate multiple podcast feeds and a [TS]

  master list in a master feed and all of that is actually a bunch of movable type [TS]

  things that's a totally crazy thing but it works and and we built it because [TS]

  there's just things that that damn Benjamin CMS didn't offer and they were [TS]

  not things dan we should ever have built because his other shows would never use [TS]

  them but i wanna index so that people can find out that we talked about [TS]

  Raiders of the Lost Ark in like episode 8 or something and they can go to a page [TS]

  and scroll down to Raiders of the Lost Ark and there's a link to the podcast [TS]

  where we talked about it in the end campsite was never gonna do that and [TS]

  that's not his fault it's just didn't make sense for him but I wanted this [TS]

  features so we built this crazy thing and movable type and you know it's it's [TS]

  it's crazy but it works pretty well and once I had that up and running it was [TS]

  really easy to just add the six colors blog on on two movable type 2 because I [TS]

  was already wrangling it and Greg are ready so we decided to do that too nice [TS]

  a mobile type is you know it's template language is fairly simple but it's [TS]

  pretty robust and and it's it's rendering seven pages which means you're [TS]

  not gonna get fireballs I still well everybody renders static pages it's just [TS]

  a question of whether they're rendering them immediately or whether they're [TS]

  calling cashing [TS]

  that's true that's when caching with with WordPress has gotten a lot better [TS]

  which is which is good and I've used WordPress its I'm not comfortable with [TS]

  it it's interesting to see [TS]

  stuff like this is is is in some cases as a nerd litmus test a little bit right [TS]

  it's like oh what blog platform to use and there's somebody movable type is not [TS]

  cool it's old and weird but right tool for the job you know right tool for the [TS]

  job and and and I'm a big believer in that that I shouldn't have to spend a [TS]

  week hitting up to speed on a platform that's gonna let me do exactly what i [TS]

  was gonna do on the thing that I already know and if I had to jump I would impact [TS]

  when I'm thinking about doing like site registrations or something for the [TS]

  website that that one option I have to do like a membership of voluntary [TS]

  membership for six colors there's a move [TS]

  there's a there's a wordpress plugin that does a good job with that i think [TS]

  thats what Ben Thompson is using or if not he's customers I know told me and [TS]

  you know if if if I want to I can set up a wordpress instance to and use that for [TS]

  that and not for the rest of it and just have them interconnect and I can do that [TS]

  too [TS]

  it's not you know it's it's not necessarily bad [TS]

  to to do stuff like that but it does make me feel that cool when I get an [TS]

  email the other day from somebody was like I I see your this feature on your [TS]

  blog and I would like to implement that I assume you use WordPress like idea how [TS]

  did you do it [TS]

  ok bad news not using WordPress yeah I've gotten over the years to the [TS]

  combined post thing although we're definitely doing WordPress but you would [TS]

  have to do it a different way [TS]

  yeah and and again [TS]

  yeah and and again [TS]

  I don't know how you do it in WordPress but I know exactly how you doin movable [TS]

  type so especially for just wanting to get it up soon [TS]

  it made him a lot of sense to you to do that now i know i cant like Movable Type [TS]

  it's funky and weird but an argument with somebody when they're talking about [TS]

  what real real mark down haha I mean don't get me started to get you started [TS]

  but I had a moment where I said you know I still consider markdown IPL the [TS]

  definitive merger down and they vary I think they're being very smart they said [TS]

  yeah but you don't actually you know how much of what you do actually gets [TS]

  processed by Martin PL and I said all of it because either I run it in a script [TS]

  in BBEdit output HTML a pace that in somewhere or I'm using movable-type [TS]

  which is using the market and IPL on the fly to convert those to HTML so I'm you [TS]

  know it has the advantage to even my the markdown dingus a daring fireball which [TS]

  is extremely popular then I mean I thousands of the number of people who [TS]

  use that webpage everyday is greater than I think the daily readership of [TS]

  daring fireball when I went full time it's it's that popular it's just a [TS]

  little PHP forum where you can enter some marked down hit a button and it [TS]

  gives you the output beneath which you can then copy and paste elsewhere which [TS]

  I originally wrote just for people I didn't think people would actually use [TS]

  it as a tool to or I thought it was just like if you're learning this you for [TS]

  reading about this you want to learn to type something here and then you can see [TS]

  the output here and there's no better way to learn then you know you can see [TS]

  that you put asterisks around the word and then in the output it puts em tags [TS]

  around the word but people use it on a daily basis just like I want to convert [TS]

  I I need to get some I need to have this in HTML quickly dashed out here hit the [TS]

  button and copy and paste in have to really that's great but it's a little [TS]

  formal written in PHP [TS]

  but behind the scenes it still costs out to the perot voters and its sound when I [TS]

  did that I thought well that's never gonna scale like if this page gets [TS]

  popular it's got to be slow but it's not it's caused the whole thing is so stupid [TS]

  simple that even if it's a PHP script [TS]

  that calls out to the UNIX shell scripting a text file and then put them [TS]

  put back in it all takes place in a fraction of a second you're waiting [TS]

  longer for the network then you are for my server to do that no matter how far [TS]

  we've come [TS]

  yeah I remember when running a prescrip was actually like you know stop the [TS]

  presses right it was like to rate this and see just Wright like a perl script [TS]

  and it's like wow it'll take a second or two for Pearl to fire up but you know I [TS]

  don't so much easier to do it I will take a break and is sponsored by a [TS]

  circle back half an hour I have the research department the award-winning [TS]

  research department here at the talk show has found the white paper that I [TS]

  was talking about its by Wilfredo Sanchez I cannot believe I forgot [TS]

  friends name because I've even had drinks with him at the BBC great guy [TS]

  it's a used next two thousand presentations from the year 2000 the [TS]

  challenges of integrating the UNIX and Mac OS environments and I will put it in [TS]

  the show not guaranteed it is I swear it sounds very dry but it is a terrific [TS]

  read if you have any technical interest in this sort of thing like well how do [TS]

  you square the circle of having a classic Mac OS with colon separators and [TS]

  Unix with / separators and other issues to like the fact that the UNIX [TS]

  filesystem did not file a DS and the Mac had aliases Indonesia symlinks and Unix [TS]

  didn't have a lease is indeed have some links and etcetera etcetera how did they [TS]

  make it all work it is a wonderfully well you know it's typical just for [TS]

  someone who would be a great engineering Apple it is it's written in [TS]

  in very very clear language so I will put in the Schonert don't forget that's [TS]

  right and in my ipod my apologies to anybody out there who's listening who [TS]

  remembered that Freddy Sanchez wrote that paper and for the last 35 minutes [TS]

  has been writing email while they listened to us continue when you get the [TS]

  Twitter feed back that's like oh you can't answer is this just keep listening [TS]

  we gotta so I apologies that I know where you are in the shower right now [TS]

  your patience will be rewarded just keep on listening you had another talk about [TS]

  the interview so anything that is something that was going on over over [TS]

  Christmas right this whole thing where Sony Entertainment got hacked by [TS]

  somebody many people including EUS government believe either by the North [TS]

  Korean government or by a group sponsored by the North Korean government [TS]

  perhaps in protest of this movie Seth Rogen James Franco or his or her sister [TS]

  President Obama Colin James flaca [TS]

  conflating in with the Ravens quarterback Joe is like a you know a [TS]

  movie that is about comedy about them [TS]

  assassinating North Korean leader Kim jong-il right there they're asked by the [TS]

  CIA to to assassinate him and then they got hacked and all this embarrassing [TS]

  stuff came out and they got threatened there were threats whether they were [TS]

  real or imagined than any of the other was first come out on Christmas day I [TS]

  guess in any there are threats that any theater that showed it was going to [TS]

  perhaps suffer some kind of terrorist attack they said there would be another [TS]

  911 add another 90 theaters near you [TS]

  yeah right which doesn't seem like yeah you gonna fly how many airplanes into [TS]

  the movie theaters but anyway [TS]

  the editors decided I think I I think it was a mistake but I think they made a [TS]

  simple economic decision which was well christmas is a huge time for movies and [TS]

  period this movie in particular wasn't going to be a big hit anyway just screw [TS]

  this movie and keep the theaters open and then you know next thing you know [TS]

  Sony wanted to release it online and they did but iTunes was not among the [TS]

  streaming outfits that had it on as re-record re-recording on the 29 29th it [TS]

  hit iTunes yesterday the 28th I think that summarizes the situation yeah and [TS]

  there was there was one weird story that I that suggested that Sony had called [TS]

  the white house asking for help in getting out ball to put it on iTunes [TS]

  which I I have not seen any corroboration of that but that was the [TS]

  one that struck me is like that's weird that's a weird yet that was the new york [TS]

  times and it was an off it was just like in the middle of the article and it was [TS]

  just sort of off hand I mean I don't know if that's your call the switchboard [TS]

  yes for any Q's number or is that like President Obama can you do a solid and [TS]

  call Tim Cook I there's a spectrum of what might have happened there and it's [TS]

  unclear from there sort of the implication that they wanted to be an [TS]

  iTunes exclusive and and but Apple wasn't interested and then you know what [TS]

  ended up happening is that it went up on Christmas Eve on Google Play and on [TS]

  YouTube on YouTube for purchase or rental and Xbox through text box life [TS]

  correct but not iTunes until until the 28th I guess you know I wrote today I [TS]

  just before he started the show I gave it my headline of the Week award finally [TS]

  G [TS]

  PGR is headline was a poor and I want to get this wrong because it's so classic [TS]

  BGR as headliners Apple finally decides to stand up to Sony hackers releases the [TS]

  interview on iTunes man so I you know whether it's true and I i nobody I've [TS]

  got nobody on the record but you know speaking to some people at Apple nobody [TS]

  directly involved in iTunes but people who know people who are involved in [TS]

  iTunes that the story I've heard and it makes sense for example if your [TS]

  developer this is public knowledge iTunes Connect closes around like the [TS]

  22nd or 23rd and it does and even say you go to the iTunes Connect site they [TS]

  say iTunes Connect is closed until December 28 they close couple days [TS]

  before Christmas and they don't open until a couple of days afterwards and [TS]

  that's it [TS]

  whatever you want if you're a developer if you want to get a bugfix and you've [TS]

  got to get it in before they close and otherwise your gonna wait about a week [TS]

  because they want to give people time off from my understanding I think that [TS]

  what happened was apple juice and and the New York Times article kinda hinted [TS]

  it not that Apple was interested but they weren't interested in doing it on [TS]

  Sony's timetable that it was this was like the blackout period for iTunes and [TS]

  it's not easy the stuff is non-trivial like to have all these movies streaming [TS]

  around the world it takes a while for them to propagate around to see the end [TS]

  the content delivery networks that Apple uses and again in theory if they wanted [TS]

  to get it up on Christmas I'm sure they could've but I think they would have had [TS]

  to call people back from vacation and you know make all sorts of exceptions [TS]

  and I just think Apple's decision was this is not our problem and yeah we have [TS]

  the movie if we get the movie three days from now so what ya I think we might [TS]

  need a bigger thing I don't know why I look at the look at how the story had [TS]

  gone and kind of thing that somebody at Apple probably should have said let's be [TS]

  prepared to slide this thing up on Christmas Day [TS]

  just because that may be how this goes any it was clear a while ago people were [TS]

  talking about maybe they were just make it available video on demand and I know [TS]

  that thats yeah that's probably telling an employee or to an Apple that they [TS]

  need to they need to come to work or be on call to come to work over the holiday [TS]

  and that sucks but at the same time you know although that headline is [TS]

  ridiculous I do feel like there was a chance here for Apple to just kind of [TS]

  the part of the story and instead the story was Apple doesn't have it that's [TS]

  weird and I don't know I mean that they're in the business of working with [TS]

  the studios to get the stuff I would you want to be seen as being on the [TS]

  forefront of this and being flexible enough to get up and I kinda feel like [TS]

  what was revealed is that Apple systems are a little bit rickety and and they [TS]

  were they were running a skeleton crew and so they just couldn't get it up and [TS]

  in time for the timing of it which is kind of weird although if you've used [TS]

  iTunes Connect it's not unreasonable to think that that's a weird you know back [TS]

  in system that regular people never have to see but it's not a big deal but it is [TS]

  a little surprising that it should now be at the forefront of the stuff like [TS]

  sure we can put that up the problem and yeah I do I do kind of feel that aside [TS]

  and again who knows what the root actual capabilities and I don't know for sure [TS]

  but I do think that it might be true that Apple's backend system for this [TS]

  stuff is less nimble than you know in no surprise that Google may be a lot more [TS]

  nimble in this regard yeah yeah that they can do something quicker they can [TS]

  pull something put put it up quicker and have it propagation and stream around [TS]

  the world quicker than Apple can wear the Apple AAPL still the company that [TS]

  when they make changes to the store has tix tore down an hour to exactly exactly [TS]

  I i think that's that's part of the story and they've gotten better but also [TS]

  used to be that they would be like TV shows that would come out and it was [TS]

  like supposed to be released on midnight after the after the show aired or [TS]

  something like that and then on iTunes it would always be like sometime the [TS]

  next day or maybe the day after and i never knew whether that meant that some [TS]

  of the TV studio just didn't get the file to them in time or whether it was [TS]

  like literally there's a lag in iTunes Connect for content and you know the [TS]

  systems are shallower the approval of slow and that [TS]

  gets gets delayed and they seem to be better at that now too but it's possible [TS]

  I know it's also possible that Google and Microsoft and whoever else posted [TS]

  this thing had no problem telling their staff to work on Christmas and maybe [TS]

  they maybe they had that plan and Apple has this kind of corporate culture of [TS]

  dismissing everybody for that period of time and you know maybe that's played [TS]

  into this 2010 and not really anybody I mean it can't really be everybody [TS]

  because you know on Christmas morning when everybody's launching new iPod iPad [TS]

  somebody somebody's gotta be there there are always people on call so that that's [TS]

  that's the part that just don't know maybe they just didn't think it was that [TS]

  big a deal and that it was that they didn't need to be there it's just it's [TS]

  funny in the end when the president is talking about it in his news conference [TS]

  it's probably a big enough deal to pay attention to it I think if your Apple [TS]

  just cannot be even if you're not going to be the only exclusive provider of it [TS]

  to not be the one major player who's not providing a note saying they were afraid [TS]

  or anything that is a lot of stupidity and in those statements but I'm just [TS]

  saying for PR purposes alone don't you want to be not seen as being a step [TS]

  behind Microsoft and Google Play yeah I totally agree with that and and though [TS]

  the movie is a silly stupid comedy and not like a serious political statement [TS]

  which you know what I think if it had been if it had been some kind of [TS]

  documentary on North Korea that had you know sparked the hack and public need to [TS]

  see this movie right that I bet I would be surprised about what had made the [TS]

  exception but I feel like it almost doesn't matter like and I actually did [TS]

  rent a movie remanent now it was really that I did that their best but at their [TS]

  worst seems like an odd not the best showing for them now there are very few [TS]

  movies that even if even though I'm like halfway through in like wow I regret [TS]

  running [TS]

  but I'll stick it through to the end that this one I did not make it to my [TS]

  wife I just latisha let's just go bad otherwise I'm gonna fall asleep in front [TS]

  of this thing it was not funny but I still feel like you know we can't have [TS]

  our movies being held to the whims of you know anonymous not job hackers ya [TS]

  gotta stick to your guns and I kind of feel like so as stupid as the movie [TS]

  itself actually is I kind of feel like it really was an exceptional situation [TS]

  that warranted probably exceptional and ill an exception from Apple from what [TS]

  they would typically do I know it wasn't just like Sony it called them up and we [TS]

  had this movie from the summer and we've got it scheduled to come up with you [TS]

  guys on January 2nd but you know it's like we do it like a week early may be [TS]

  given up on Christmas and apples iknow you guys you know before you know your [TS]

  chance to do that was last week it's coming up on January 2nd this was not [TS]

  just like a regular situation like you said the present United States is [TS]

  talking about right right I mean I'm glad the little back in theaters and it [TS]

  sounds like it was the theater chains were like we're afraid we don't scare [TS]

  people away from the other movies that were just gonna punted I'm glad that [TS]

  that some theaters finally showed it and i'm glad that it was on VOD and the [TS]

  people can watch it and yeah it's a shame in a way that this isn't over a [TS]

  more serious thoughtful piece of work instead of a kind of stoner Road comedy [TS]

  but you know I like Franco and Rogan I mean I like from all the way back and [TS]

  freaks and geeks days actually [TS]

  and the fact that Seth Rogen is a guy who headlines movies is totally crazy [TS]

  for me because I mean look at that guy he's not a movie starring Eddie is a [TS]

  movie star I love that and he's a writer who has become you know he was primarily [TS]

  a writer who has become more of an active I i have lots of positive [TS]

  thoughts about those guys even if the movie is kinda sucky I'm glad that I got [TS]

  out there and yeah [TS]

  yeah you would think you would think somebody that would be like hey guys I [TS]

  think we need to do this and and i think perhaps they did happen eventually after [TS]

  the fact we're maybe on Christmas Day somebody was like why why are we not out [TS]

  there with this and so now we see it you know it went on iTunes faster than I [TS]

  thought once it didn't go on i tunes on the day of release I thought that's [TS]

  gonna lag behind their gonna come up and turn the lights back on and then they're [TS]

  gonna put it out there it got a bit faster than I thought after after they [TS]

  passed by the initial drop date now it was exactly did I would say it was [TS]

  exactly what I expected I read between the lines in my guess was all they said [TS]

  was we're not going to do this but not going to get this up by Christmas will [TS]

  get it in you know somebody to come back in on Friday or Monday and push the [TS]

  button will make an appt yeah stupid movie cannot have a really good [TS]

  an an international incident propelled by a a stoner Road comedy amazing [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  me take a break and thinking third and final sponsor the show and a trifecta of [TS]

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  moving those all your old domains India her account so you'll have a mall all [TS]

  your domains in one centralized location with their great interface their great [TS]

  support just one place to go to renew your domains for the rest of your life [TS]

  because it's such a hard thing DNS is so easy to screw up and when you do screwed [TS]

  up it takes hours to fix because I gotta wait for the changes to propagate and [TS]

  how often do regular people mess around with DNS me almost never I kind of [TS]

  vaguely so it should know what it's like if they are fired the valley transferred [TS]

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  not satisfied with sign up for her and let them move them over and you will not [TS]

  regret it I have never met one person was like wow I regret switching to her [TS]

  now it's like the apple of domain name registrars it's a cut above the rest [TS]

  here's the coupon code for this episode this they're on a booze theme for the [TS]

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  account now I have 16 demeans at her and we have a problem but I do and count [TS]

  yeah well I menswear put all that when I when I got six colors that's where I put [TS]

  it is yes I was about to say I'm gonna repeat myself but it couldn't it must [TS]

  have been something I told you in person because you haven't been on the show I [TS]

  think six colors is such a great name when you came out with their you didn't [TS]

  ask me you didn't say hey joie thinkin a mutant my feelings are a little [TS]

  yeah well that was I mean I expected a lot more hand-wringing and and [TS]

  difficulty honestly I i i did some brainstorming when I decided I was going [TS]

  to do this site and I thought I don't want to be I something or Mac something [TS]

  I'd already spent years dealing with a brand name with Mac in it that was [TS]

  talking about iOS and I also one of the freedom to talk about other tech stuff [TS]

  that's not Apple related at all but I also didn't want to be just completely [TS]

  divorced I wanted I wanted to mean something to me completely divorced from [TS]

  Apple is likely if I can tip my cap at Apple somehow and yet have not be [TS]

  necessary to understanding just haven't been easy to scan cite cite name that [TS]

  that was what I was looking for and I also wanted to be something that was [TS]

  kind of normal words and sellable and a dot com those are Scott sort of all my [TS]

  rules can I did TV dotnet which was te ve day and there's nothing worse than [TS]

  having to spell it out and then and then point out it's not a dot com dot net and [TS]

  you know i just i wanted to be simple and then that that struck me that [TS]

  classic you know it comes from their D interview that Steve Jobs did with [TS]

  Walton Kara about when he came back to Apple [TS]

  wrapping back around the beginning of the show in in 96 97 [TS]

  and he was amazed at how many good people were still there when he thought [TS]

  the company should be just empty because it was in such dire straits and and the [TS]

  phrase that struck him at the time was somebody told him permit multiple people [TS]

  told him that we know we believe six colors here or I believe six colors that [TS]

  the classic Apple rainbow logo which was the logo the time it's like it's in my [TS]

  blood this is Apple is part of who I am and that struck steve is like a leading [TS]

  six colors that make sense you love Apple like I love Apple let's make some [TS]

  great stuff and I i felt like that was that was like I'm not going always [TS]

  praised everything Apple does Amanda criticized Apple I'm gonna try to be [TS]

  fair when I read about Apple and I'm gonna read about things that are now but [TS]

  Apple has defined my career and tech journalism there's no doubt about it and [TS]

  it would be crazy for me not to find a way to to reference that and so I [TS]

  thought you know bleed 66 colors believe six colors what you know let me look [TS]

  that up and I found out that there were no website called that the dot-com [TS]

  domain for it was available it was owned by somebody but it was just cite [TS]

  literally saying make me an offer and I thought well like I know I give it a few [TS]

  days where I just thought maybe maybe not doing want to do this what I want to [TS]

  do but I I never went to a backup name as I thought well this is greater than [TS]

  the same accuracy I dot com its regular English words and so yes then I ended up [TS]

  making making those people on offer and transferring it to her and about six [TS]

  colors with a you for everybody in Commonwealth countries it redirects to [TS]

  the one without the year it does it read director doesn't mean it redirects it [TS]

  and what I wanna do at some point is read a script or something that mirror [TS]

  set with all of the words swapped out for their equivalents but I haven't [TS]

  gotten to that point yet [TS]

  maybe there'll be a good addition to smarty pants English if I like a monocle [TS]

  and a top hat on it but yeah so it was I'm glad you liked it I i've got [TS]

  incredibly positive feedback from it which is which is great cuz you never [TS]

  expect positive feedback from anything on the internet you expect people to [TS]

  grouse about it but you know i've been I i'm happy to have the people say nice [TS]

  things about it and I'm happy about it I was like I said I expected this to be a [TS]

  real trial and for me to get something that was a compromise could you hear [TS]

  those stories and Marco tells a story about overcast now he had all these [TS]

  different ideas and you know things he couldn't get things in past about a [TS]

  trademark search or anything like that and you know for this I was really just [TS]

  looking for ideally a.com domain I would have taken some others probably if I [TS]

  could come up with something clever but this for me was a good fit it's like if [TS]

  you get what its referencing then great and if you don't it doesn't matter it's [TS]

  just it's just a brand new Nigerian fireball is it's a good name you know [TS]

  it's good it's but it's funny though cuz it's not enough to have a good name now [TS]

  because well I wonder about that today I know Jason freed Basecamp 37620 is 137 I [TS]

  will for the rest of my life but he he's written about how domain names don't [TS]

  mean as much anymore and they have Basecamp dot com now but I think at [TS]

  least 10 years HQ everybody who use Basecamp knows his thing was man people [TS]

  just google based in NY 10018 have an account they just start typing be in [TS]

  Toronto in on the address field and it fills in and when they're looking for it [TS]

  they don't go to the website they go to google and type base camp and pay see if [TS]

  we could be based campaign HQ access G and they would get to us [TS]

  so I do think it's a little bit less important agree I like it better to have [TS]

  a good name that just sounds like a good name six colors it sounds good rather [TS]

  than worry about the domain but I still think that there's an art to getting a [TS]

  name where it looks like a good you are you know and so every once in a while as [TS]

  I can simple but like a lot of times when you have like an ass in the middle [TS]

  it it if its plural Lake sixes colors dot com it's like you know it doesn't [TS]

  look at it you lose the two words you know you want if you gonna combined two [TS]

  words the daring fireballer six colors you want it to be completely unambiguous [TS]

  even without CamelCase because that's how most people and every once in awhile [TS]

  you come up with a domain name it's like two words put together they sound great [TS]

  the meaning is great but then you look at the mall or kiss together and it's [TS]

  like you can read it I mean we had a lot of politics involving picking a name for [TS]

  the site that we launched it at IDG and we chose tech high and there are a lot [TS]

  of things I love I love the logo I love the colors I like the name but in a [TS]

  browser it looks terrible because it's the two ages in the middle [TS]

  that's a that's exactly the sort of thing i'm talking now but again it did [TS]

  you know but that's two ages in a row it's it's exactly right whereas in if it [TS]

  wasn't for the URL you would never it never occurred because the 82nd age [TS]

  would always be uppercase the interview CamelCase or it would be two words with [TS]

  a space between them but either way it would be a lowercase agent a [TS]

  capitulation it wouldn't be a problem but I did get and I've never even used [TS]

  this it redirects but I did get 6 colo dot RSS cuz I don't know why not that's [TS]

  like Serbia Serbian demand register has some of my money now but I don't know [TS]

  why I bought a lot of domains when I was speculating about the about the name and [TS]

  that's why I have 16 demeans and offers I've got a bleed six colors and bleed [TS]

  six and numerals six of something but not of six colors and and a few other [TS]

  names that were in there snow world which is where I posted my like a sort [TS]

  of resignation announcement thing that was just a placeholder until I get lunch [TS]

  six colors but I it's a name right its name was real words you don't have to [TS]

  explain it during fireball is like that [TS]

  you might ask what does that mean but the words are recognizable it's an [TS]

  understandable concept I think I think in the art of naming that's what you [TS]

  want is you want something that is gonna catch a little bit and be like oh yeah [TS]

  yeah even if the domain doesn't matter although quite frankly during a [TS]

  podcaster your own a TV interview and somebody says oh where can people read [TS]

  about you it helps especially at the beginning to say six colors dot com [TS]

  because you know if you say well he's a weird URL you have to go to it's less [TS]

  likely anybody's gonna remember it but they might remember the name did you get [TS]

  the digits six colors and I i would like to get that at some point but it was [TS]

  quite frankly it was too expensive [TS]

  after about the others I was like wow that's really pricey for just a redirect [TS]

  and to your point about Google I feel like after some amount of time of me [TS]

  doing this I can decide whether I want to go ahead and buy that and my feeling [TS]

  is at some point those other alternatives are a lot less valuable [TS]

  because there's already a thing that is six colors dot com and so numeral six [TS]

  colors dot com is not a you know they're gonna think well it's it's valuable they [TS]

  can sell it to me but nobody else is gonna want it so I hope to get them [TS]

  eventually but I'm not gonna pay an arm and a leg to get them just because they [TS]

  will redirect I've told this before my registered during fire by registered at [TS]

  net and dot com at the same time and I i went with dot net as the canonical one [TS]

  because I i've since grown out of it I guess if I had it to do all over again [TS]

  I'd probably use the dot-com but at the time I had a weird aversion to dot com I [TS]

  just thought I don't know if it's an exploit I cannot express it just felt [TS]

  like that comment you're like a big company was a time when Doug net was [TS]

  kinda cool it was likely cool like inside hurry you know where the word the [TS]

  techie people of the internet and we we have dot net [TS]

  ITV not net and org I just didn't ever get that calm I don't know it just [TS]

  seemed to me like a person with a site should not have a duck and I don't even [TS]

  know I've never even asked him I always thought maybe that's why can't he uses [TS]

  cocky door but I read those two and this is back at a time when they're really [TS]

  only three big ones [TS]

  net dot com dot org and I didn't register dot org somebody else has this [TS]

  guy Peter Haas something you go to daring fireball dorgan's a guy who hosts [TS]

  his personal blog their God I swear and done work for six colors i've you know [TS]

  every once in awhile somebody alright to me where this but it's like the guy he [TS]

  hasn't updated its and two years so and it was never popular so I just thought [TS]

  that's not why he did it seems to me like a crazy person it's also possible [TS]

  that his pocket somewhere else but he's parked he's parked domain at the same IP [TS]

  address and it's just accepting of all the traffic and so even though he's [TS]

  thinking that he's serving that it you know my my blog datpiff.com it's also [TS]

  Sarah still serving an irreparable I don't have that happen sometimes the app [TS]

  for a while the guy who owned newspaper dot com or at least he did own newspaper [TS]

  dot com had it redirecting to during fireball I didn't have it I wasn't my [TS]

  domain it was this the guy who had and it's a newspaper dot com is probably [TS]

  pretty valuable to me maybe it no longer it still isn't a thing if you go to [TS]

  newspaper dot com it's like us [TS]

  sorry we're down to the moment and there's an animation but for a while and [TS]

  it was just weird because it was like I don't know it was enough traffic on a [TS]

  daily basis that it showed up in my referrals like as I can with the houses [TS]

  newspaper dot com that is like my 15th highest referral and I went to it and it [TS]

  was during fire by Nendo now or the other thing was while he was doing it I [TS]

  would get I would get about one or two offers a month to buy it [TS]

  sure and I was like how many as I gotta know why its point my site but it in me [TS]

  I remember there is a story about that maybe even a site I did had that for a [TS]

  while where somebody owned it and they didn't want to give it to us or sell it [TS]

  to us but they said but I'm not using it soldiers related to you for now I was [TS]

  like ok [TS]

  that doesn't help me because I can't rely on it but it's nice that you turn [TS]

  the speakers on us for a while with tv.com is that it was a it was a blog on [TS]

  CNET for awhile and TV I think snow wasn't even seen it was like Hotwire [TS]

  something like that and wired digital got sold to like like hosts or Alta [TS]

  Vista or something like that and it basically got sucked into this nine [TS]

  internet company to the point where they were never using it he visited that dot [TS]

  com of my dot net dot org you went to the dot-com you just went to the search [TS]

  engine homepage and I spent years trying to get them to not even to sell it to me [TS]

  to find the person who is in charge of the terrorists to this to this day I [TS]

  have no idea just give me somebody to talk to you know we just have this blog [TS]

  you're not using it it was the name of a blog on a website that you bought ten [TS]

  years ago they only did 10 posts or whatever and then and then they shut it [TS]

  down and to this day if you go to te ve dot com you end up at insider info dot [TS]

  com at the Lycos network which yeah with with with a form submission of src [TS]

  equals nm domains I wonder if that's why all of our did domains just redirect to [TS]

  this page where they where they don't even know what it's like [TS]

  user-submitted content or something like that they're running out all these don't [TS]

  all demands but it's like that they just they got that domain demands are funny [TS]

  they got the domain a million years ago and they just keep paying whatever [TS]

  they're paying as part of the thousand domains that they own and will pay for [TS]

  it forever and you know that's always a problem when you're shopping for domains [TS]

  is is that is that if it's somebody wants to sell its great but if it's just [TS]

  inside the mom of a giant corporation forget it just forget it [TS]

  TV de vez the problem here [TS]

  dot com dot com yeah it just redirects it like some kind of weird sight but [TS]

  done and/or good you know we we still have actually and I was that was my you [TS]

  know there was a TV blog with my friends and I did for [TS]

  like 96 2011 sometime in the two thousands and supply coastal thing I [TS]

  guess so again there's a company that swallowed a fly coast that owns the the [TS]

  assets including all those domains that they bond is still run it and now I just [TS]

  went there is still operate as a search and yeah I thought of like us and it's [TS]

  amazing it's amazing and it may even be powered by somebody else but it's it's [TS]

  it's still there so you can still go there and get searchers I'm sure they're [TS]

  really good I wonder if their search results from the nineties be funny I [TS]

  searched for Jason Snelling to redirect me to snow world so that's not bad [TS]

  they're up to date I was at my mom's house and she found a thing I did mack [TS]

  user again bringing back around the internet roadmap and it was like [TS]

  literally this this subscription premium i think is a newsstand premium was like [TS]

  a road map of sites on the internet and they were all interconnected and it was [TS]

  actually a project we did when we went from site to site with links each site [TS]

  had to link to the next site in a chain and it is crazy but the funny thing [TS]

  about it is that the backbone of that that we used to really make it [TS]

  functional was Yahoo at Stanford [TS]

  just a like a link directory and we would use that to link out to the sides [TS]

  and literally like a hundred and fifty sites on the map and it was most of the [TS]

  Internet in 1995 when everything was so I had to look this up he looked it up [TS]

  through like us talking about domain names like that now it's a classic [TS]

  McSweeney's article you had to have seen this from 2004 written by [TS]

  michael ward and its email addresses it would be really annoying to give out [TS]

  over the phone it's it's it's much more visual joked in a verbal joke because of [TS]

  the email addresses but it's like for example imagine if your surname were [TS]

  underscore Mike underscore or yahoo.com I just put in the rest of these I don't [TS]

  want to spoil it but it's a funny little 50 item list gag I started doing my show [TS]

  nuts but good people like those you've noticed its I used to be really lazy [TS]

  about it but I feel like it's one of the little things they can do to make this [TS]

  show a little better [TS]

  well you know people are in their cars and they hear about something that's [TS]

  going to be interesting and then they get to work and they forget what was [TS]

  that thing and it's hard to look back at you know stan through two hours of [TS]

  biogas when you can just go to the show notes and that's what I was looking for [TS]

  your pre Instapaper in the show for them and it's a pain I mean it's only a pain [TS]

  but I do as you go along it's a little bit easier I started to do that with the [TS]

  uncomfortable and with clockwise Mike does it for upgrade but you know just [TS]

  somebody mentioned something I just write it down like and it's a pain to do [TS]

  that cuz it gives you a little bit out of the flow of your concentration of the [TS]

  of the conversation but at the same time a kind of beats having to go back later [TS]

  and say where did they mention something and you know and people do like it [TS]

  people appreciate it when you those links in a Draenei on on last episode [TS]

  and I think he even wrote on IM or the heat is on over 300 podcast last year [TS]

  and I knew I already asked you to do the next episode I do think I've gotten back [TS]

  to back to most prolific podcasters on the Mac web how many packets and you're [TS]

  probably do in morn so maybe a better question is how many are you on pace to [TS]

  do under my curly probably has me beat or its close I would say if I keep doing [TS]

  what I've been doing now [TS]

  next year let me do some lunch bar mat here let's see i'd say two hundred and [TS]

  fifty so you're at ballpark great I mean we're talking like if somebody wanted to [TS]

  listen to every show that you're on your own there talking 500 episodes yeah I [TS]

  mean because because fast and I i don't expect anybody to be completed but yes I [TS]

  basically I'm doing for weekly podcasts I'm not the center of all four amino I [TS]

  do the one with Tim Goodman from The Hollywood Reporter and we talked about [TS]

  TV cuz he's the TV critic of the hollywood reporter and I'm the same kind [TS]

  of the classic dan Benjamin role in that where I'm facilitating in producing it [TS]

  and posting it really it's like I'm asking questions of the guy who's the [TS]

  expert on TV because he's TV critic at The Hollywood Reporter that's a very [TS]

  different kind of show to do then in Kabul more like clockwise is just a half [TS]

  an hour into the median more and then upgrade is me a lot of me but might [TS]

  produces that one so you know each of them takes a little bit of a different [TS]

  amount of time but yeah if you put those together and multiply them by 52 thats [TS]

  208 podcast right there and then there are some others that are like I did I [TS]

  did a podcast after every episode of Game of Thrones last year and this year [TS]

  and Doctor Who as well and so that that's an extra like 23 episodes and we [TS]

  do our little done and done those those render them comfortable those were the [TS]

  flash cast were under TV actually TEM reusing the names and logos I think if [TS]

  you pronounce it [TS]

  T T [TS]

  I V TV Long EZ anyway we put it there cuz I know I'm torn I could basically [TS]

  have like five pages a week meaning comfortable for you now I feel like [TS]

  thats that would be a litter so there's like a master for you with everything [TS]

  and then you can just subscribe to the individual podcast if you want to and [TS]

  then we do the Dungeons and Dragons thing which is literally we played [TS]

  Dungeons and Dragons once every six weeks for like four hours and then that [TS]

  comes out every other week in a one hour chunks so it's not a lot of time and [TS]

  it's fun but that is another podcast and I'm on and then I say yes to be on other [TS]

  people's podcast like this one so it's a lot there's a lot of podcasting we'll [TS]

  see how how how long I last I wish podcasting with more like aerobic [TS]

  exercise cuz I I could really use some more exercise and instead I'm just doing [TS]

  a lot of podcasting [TS]

  very healthy if purchasing was more than I've been dreading this whole time I've [TS]

  been putting off the end of the show but I feel like I've gotta run by an apology [TS]

  is that go one more episode of the talk show scheduled for 2014 and it's it's [TS]

  going to be a special episode on Star Wars who and and I didn't invite you its [TS]

  ok I know I know I know I forgive you I know way more than I know so many huge [TS]

  star Wars fans I am now I'm not one of those I I like Star Wars a lot and i'm [TS]

  happy to talk we talked about a million times for millions of hours in syracuse [TS]

  and in morning I did find out more than an hour on the trailer for The Force [TS]

  away his right but you know it in even in our sphere I could list off a whole [TS]

  bunch of people who are bigger Star Wars fans than than me including you and and [TS]

  Johnson and Ian Moore and now it's gonna be me it's gonna be Siracusa and an end [TS]

  to keep us straight and sort of three keep us from getting too serious guy [TS]

  English well that's good that's that's perfect I love I love it [TS]

  well my thing is i feel like i I cannot be responsible I can't be the host from [TS]

  more than [TS]

  panel of three including me because it's it's beyond my Ken as a host there would [TS]

  also be like eight hours long [TS]

  if if you were just completely just free to talk about star worse that's the [TS]

  that's why I've said this before but I'm gonna mention here because I'm not sure [TS]

  I've said it anywhere [TS]

  one of my favorite moments in waiting in line for an Apple Keynote ever was you [TS]

  and me and I think like dan moore and it was there was a press area before WWC [TS]

  and we're talking about Raiders of the Lost Ark for like 20 minutes and there [TS]

  was a moment when the door is starting to accordion up and you looked at me and [TS]

  you're like forget this let's just go talk about Raiders lost art form or was [TS]

  that was that was almost like yeah that would be fun but that was the [TS]

  incomparable I did I did the incomparable them yes yeah yeah that was [TS]

  union then talking about it yeah [TS]

  to do one of those again sometime you know on something something that you [TS]

  that you really like that we could cover cuz I was it was a good one and 11 of [TS]

  the I still hear from people who listen to that one partially [TS]

  John Gruber was on new compilation listen to that the whole goal of that [TS]

  show from the beginning was it's a catalog show you should be able to go [TS]

  back to 2010 when we recorded that one and listen to me where the Lost Ark [TS]

  isn't any different [TS]

  it's you know it's it's fixed in time and you should be able to go and pick [TS]

  that episode off the shelf and listen to it and get something out of it you know [TS]

  and I think you can and I that was always the intent and I am happy that [TS]

  you know four-plus years later that that still true that some one of my favorite [TS]

  because it's one of my favorite movies in fact I I look back and I think we [TS]

  should go on for like two or three hours on that night just one yeah exactly I [TS]

  think it was when we had an artificial time no shooting for an hour yeah I [TS]

  always when I always want you say it hasn't changed isn't going to change I [TS]

  always imagined in the back of my head that like every Monday spielberg comes [TS]

  into the office and AM blend and there's like a stack of like three pink slips [TS]

  that say george talks Raiders of the Lost Ark special edition [TS]

  he just picks them up the space that's no I mean it actually bad enough the [TS]

  packaging is now labeled Indiana Jones and the Raiders which is just [TS]

  unacceptable [TS]

  George Carney added idea boulder could be on fire [TS]

  yeah they'll be much better with insert a scene in CGI [TS]

  Belloc is already in Egypt George called the nada there's a whole fleet of [TS]

  airplanes waiting on the river not just one instead of the traveling across the [TS]

  map they travel across a 3d globe good do you see somebody put together a [TS]

  special edition of the force awakens trailer yeah yeah yeah I did and they [TS]

  did like a killer I should have to put those killer job like somebody actually [TS]

  knows what theyre doing like VFX like and buzzing Duncan Tatooine in the end [TS]

  it is well it it's only funny because it's not even an exaggeration because [TS]

  it's exactly the sort of the did happen in the special edition of the Star Wars [TS]

  movies but like there's the scene where the East Sea obvious and you see the [TS]

  Millennium Falcon it's like being chased by like three Thai fighters were now [TS]

  being chased by 45 more exciting that way clearly anyway so everybody out [TS]

  there if you want to if you listen to the show will air first and then this [TS]

  store special edition if you want to warm up for a holiday week end of the [TS]

  holiday season special talk show popular favorite Star Wars movies into your [TS]

  movie player of choice that's good advice [TS]

  Jason Snell and let you go I think I think we've long enough probable down [TS]

  long enough I appreciate the invite it's always it's always nice to talk to you [TS]

  and and hopefully no calamitous things will befall me in the next couple of [TS]

  days if they do anything bad happens in the next week I think we're gonna have [TS]

  to call this may be asked to leave the episode just forget it [TS]

  all right thank you Jason [TS]

  have a good new year to invite any time ok see you soon probably probably right [TS]