The Talk Show

84: ‘Doctoring the Ball’, With Guy English

 

  boy really had a hard time getting my hands on Dec two weeks later it's it [TS]

  still feels like a lot to digest there's life there's a lot so there's a lot of [TS]

  technical stuff [TS]

  yeah she's a man attacked and then do seem tires have cultural change ya have [TS]

  you watched a lot of sessions in the weekends are caught up or or read the [TS]

  developer documentation yeah I've been observing as much as they can in passage [TS]

  you literally don't know where to start [TS]

  well here's what I would think I i think i mentioned as you know the whole thing [TS]

  is a goddamn blur when I mentioned on stage on stage show which was the [TS]

  previous episode but I think I mentioned this but I think it deserves more [TS]

  attention because I think even more of it than I understood the day after the [TS]

  keynote so much of what they announced technically comes down to XP see yes [TS]

  right now and we've known you know and that's that's apples term for her [TS]

  application communication right tax i guesses yeah it's nice it's a nice [TS]

  framework based on mark message passing ok and they've been working on it for a [TS]

  long time and I think you guys mentioned this on the debugger roundtable which [TS]

  was amazing to me because you guys had like six guys in there and it really was [TS]

  I gonna orderly discussion everybody got to speak planning actually yeah it's [TS]

  kind of spread [TS]

  we will then say munoz said you know that makes all the difference in the [TS]

  world could you can do little things I you make eye contact and I think I've [TS]

  got a point you can kinda like you know I've got something and people can [TS]

  concede you whereas if you're all over Skype a lot more crosstalk [TS]

  guy [TS]

  we are now in really well and I'm not just saying that cause its actual bit [TS]

  you know I think listening to your show would probably get a kick out of that [TS]

  one right but it one of the points I was brought up i think is Ryan Nelsen [TS]

  brought up that outside developers have known for a while that Apple had this X [TS]

  PC architecture and was using it for their own stuff in the system because [TS]

  you can see it in like the stack traces you get when an app crashes you can see [TS]

  that that's going on in yellow give you being a very share sheets they could [TS]

  anyone think like the Facebook sharing stuff like Facebook and Twitter yes yes [TS]

  that will come up and what's happening is in your process there's a UI remote [TS]

  control it's called and that's basically just basically canvas in which some of [TS]

  the process is projected into into Europe and you know previously if there [TS]

  was about something you would crash you need to see a stack trace of all of the [TS]

  the private goodies it went on behind the scenes to make that happen so we [TS]

  knew that stuff was going on and you could see you know I have to be a genius [TS]

  if you knew that was going on and you could see that that's how Apple [TS]

  implemented the Twitter and Facebook sharing then you could kind of think [TS]

  well then there could be an API so that anybody could get into that share sheet [TS]

  and we all kind of hope that that was going to happen last year and didn't [TS]

  follow the reason for that is it had been at least two operating systems did [TS]

  it it actually had been in there alright I think it was I was 6 for some of that [TS]

  the sharing stuff started right could be better think XTC was even in 538 567 [TS]

  before they opened it up to third parties yet now and I don't I don't [TS]

  actually believe XTC itself is open to third-party so I can check no but [TS]

  they've stuff on top [TS]

  exactly right that they're they're building all this stuff on top of it [TS]

  that's how the keyboards you know all this crazy stuff when a crazy but all [TS]

  this seemingly divergence like the shearing sheds and keyboards and I'm [TS]

  pretty sure I have the new web kids there's an all-new WebKit API and we [TS]

  went all along time where when Apple switch to the jet the just-in-time [TS]

  compiler which requires memory being marked as executable therefore didn't [TS]

  allow it [TS]

  for the third party Web kid framework that only Safari got to use the faster [TS]

  WebKit and they didn't slow down third-party WebKit they just didn't let [TS]

  third-party apps that embed web can take advantage of the new thing which is a [TS]

  subtle difference but it's it is it's kind of funny yet started a slow down to [TS]

  just spend their own thing up but a lot of people took it is that they was not [TS]

  security I'm pretty sure that that XP CD to write so it's it's it's not that they [TS]

  know the way that they've done this and they've given all apps that use the new [TS]

  web kid API the fastest web kid on the system is not by having WebKit running [TS]

  within Europe anymore it's a separate process and much like Safari has been on [TS]

  the macro while where you've got these separate rendering processes in a [TS]

  restricted sandbox that only do the rendering and then they'd projector [TS]

  review into the app through X PC so until now for new weapon on iOS the [TS]

  reason that allow just-in-time compiler is because you completely shielded from [TS]

  ya like you you you see the results presented in your application but [TS]

  malicious code can write the actual the actual rendering process is a separate [TS]

  process it's not just that [TS]

  plugin or whatever yeah same thing with the keyboards and so it is it's the big [TS]

  story is actually see it so one of things I was saying maybe last week was [TS]

  think everybody's going to talk about swiftlet but the big stories [TS]

  basically the extensions and ecstasy and one that allows it to happen now and in [TS]

  the future and it's a very Apple like way of doing it we repeat ourselves [TS]

  frequently where you know so many times there's you know here's what we want [TS]

  apple please let us do this and then they listen to it and they think about [TS]

  the actual problem and then they solve it in a way that we didn't expect right [TS]

  where everybody heading really was saying what we want is we want that [TS]

  super-fast JavaScript engine and Apple didn't give it to us because our let [TS]

  third parties use it because of the security issues but they figure out a [TS]

  way to give it to us without having it running in the process with keyboards [TS]

  yeah it's you know it's a measure twice cut once kind of philosophy where I [TS]

  think they look at the actual problem to be solved and try to come up with a [TS]

  solution for it rather than sort of case do they could well okay fine we'll let [TS]

  you get here and there were there were rumors two years ago a year ago but it [TS]

  was previous WBC in there were rumors somebody had reported that there were [TS]

  going to be third-party keyboards announced and it came and went and they [TS]

  weren't announced and you know I spoke to somebody from Apple [TS]

  a friend in a position to know and now wasn't definitely wasn't happening here [TS]

  that it but but that they had looked at it extensively you know they they knew [TS]

  an awful lot about how it worked on Android and and you know this person was [TS]

  like you wouldn't believe how it works on the Android like it more or less just [TS]

  a remote keylogger [TS]

  and you know some of them you know send every single keypress up to a server [TS]

  because they're doing you know server side stuff you know there's nothing you [TS]

  can do to as a user to stop it you install this thing from the Play Store [TS]

  and everything you type could be speaking sent to a server and its [TS]

  bananas some cases is not necessarily that it is that they're dead they're [TS]

  doing anything malicious with it but that they're doing it for you know for [TS]

  some kind of stuff whatever reason you don't even need to believe that the bad [TS]

  actors just the fact that the system can be excluded is it is just bad to say you [TS]

  know we're looking at it but there's no way we're gonna do it if you know if it [TS]

  works like that so so the custom keyboards you get when you can't you [TS]

  can't use it to type in to secure textfield interesting because when you [TS]

  think about it just makes sense yeah so what if you tap into secure text either [TS]

  you I get style or did you get scratched you when I'm system keyboards I [TS]

  understand that but then I guess their defeat one of the ideas that bunch of us [TS]

  like last week we're bandying about that it would be a cool idea for one password [TS]

  to have a custom keyboard I guess that rules that out for them I mean this to [TS]

  have a cool app for iOS yeah but I we were you know just bouncing ideas we did [TS]

  they made a keyboard yeah I'm sure they'll come up with some way of making [TS]

  it nice as you can have to keep words so until you put it out in you can have [TS]

  your custom keyboard so maybe you can see what say you on in just copied and [TS]

  pasted in yeah something like that you know me they can do something but when [TS]

  you do think about it it's like well yeah it kind of makes sense to only [TS]

  trust the system to handle those convinced me [TS]

  yeah yeah I think so what else what was the other kinders the keyboards there's [TS]

  the sharing extensions there's this stuff in the Today screen right [TS]

  yeah and that's the same thing where those are like there there little more [TS]

  less little standalone applications that run in a different context instead of [TS]

  running as regular apps in the system they're like little many apps that run [TS]

  and that notification center context yeah and it's far more than its so what [TS]

  they are is a little bundles its it inside you happened all and i dont wanna [TS]

  get to take you but inside a nap you usually specified class to class the [TS]

  Objective C classes going to be loaded and one and its UI application class or [TS]

  subclass these bundles rather than having the you know rather than it being [TS]

  application that is the sort of the route object it's just a few control so [TS]

  these are little absurd is loading up the entire application instance state [TS]

  they just looked a bit like a view controller instance and from their money [TS]

  in your money and you could space it got pretty much all of the facilities that [TS]

  you would have individual modules and differences and it's it's you know that [TS]

  the space that you get in is yours to play with it it's you have an ad and you [TS]

  can do whatever you want it it's not like you just pushing some XML [TS]

  description language stuff to get to the screen in the system's doing it it's it [TS]

  can honest-to-god for my application that's kind of amazing and again sort of [TS]

  a [TS]

  recurring theme is it's that they've given us more than we expected and I [TS]

  wouldn't have expected that the API suggesting to you because when you when [TS]

  you start up one of these extensions it tells you what size you going to be and [TS]

  they make no promises about you know they're just going to give you a size so [TS]

  in theory they could be putting these huge difference are they the same are [TS]

  the notification died this is something I don't know it's still on my like list [TS]

  i watch the Notification Center sessions but are they the same Mac and iOS four [TS]

  you very very similar very similar but it's you know but you wouldn't because [TS]

  you don't have that apps one-dot a bundle their runs on both Mac made it [TS]

  doesn't really matter if they're exactly the same but they're a lot more similar [TS]

  than say I'm a captain and Iowa SAP our wellbeing ultimately still get into that [TS]

  you doing some point made so that that's divergent but the structure in the [TS]

  Indian Ocean is is basically identical day these things were not developed in [TS]

  the old fiefdom system maybe once every few years will try to seek some stuff up [TS]

  these were clearly done together as one and in fact the core technologies from [TS]

  the echo as group so I think you guys headed the the XP CD and it did that [TS]

  kind of stuff and then various groups built built on top of that but you know [TS]

  I think we're going to end up over using this word but clearly there's a lot of [TS]

  collaboration going [TS]

  on their yeah that's sort of the key word that the central part of the post [TS]

  WBC I say that I publish according to them Friday but that collaboration press [TS]

  release from from October 2012 when they announce the sort of reorganization and [TS]

  forced always gone in Federici was taking over all engineering and Jony ive [TS]

  design clearly seen that was not just an empty you know what a positive spin on [TS]

  an ugly in-fighting that's been put to an end it was an actual statement of [TS]

  intent [TS]

  you know it's funny you actually have to make that argument that Apple just says [TS]

  what they're like when they do say something they just sit straight yeah [TS]

  but even that one like that that memo that press release any second-guessing [TS]

  wondering if date if exactly what they meant to say that's what they meant to [TS]

  increase collaboration and here you go [TS]

  and they've done a terrific job it's a trust but verify situation I'm up [TS]

  putting it past them that someday they'll find ourselves in some sort of [TS]

  hall where they have to lie or you know you know white liar what everyone is [TS]

  saying just put a spin on something and what they put out is a misdirection I [TS]

  think you could certainly say that they did that with a lot of the things that [TS]

  they had to say about Steve Jobs health in the last few that was not [TS]

  straightforward and it's an exceptional situation was obviously up to Steve and [TS]

  PR by demoralized play-along you know there's a good example of [TS]

  of you know some press releases official statement from Apple that were [TS]

  straightforward house if thats kinda feeling a little bit salacious to be [TS]

  digging into it was very very personal you know and I you know maybe one more [TS]

  and maybe one that wasn't quite so personal but that was an ugly situation [TS]

  that comes to mind was the the stock options backdating that's going back a [TS]

  decade you're talking in 2005 but that they skated very close you know maybe [TS]

  went over a line and and you know we're in a situation where they couldn't be [TS]

  straightforward yeah that's for sure but an awful lot of the time yeah [TS]

  hindsight proves that they're actually pretty straightforward and I think that [TS]

  the showing that that's clearly the case and that collaboration [TS]

  you said that it's a correr you know 40 s effort it it at the framework level [TS]

  it's not about iowa you know iOS and Mac OS 10 haven't really gotten any closer [TS]

  to each other you know they're not there to a user perspective interface [TS]

  perspective there's no tanto touch on the Mac you no change in the system [TS]

  fonts to match each other as Helvetica Neue is not sure you know that's [TS]

  cosmetic it's not technical but the frameworks have they've really done a [TS]

  massive job of getting as many other frameworks that could be shared between [TS]

  them to be shared between them [TS]

  yeah especially you know anything that doesn't touch the UI is pretty much did [TS]

  the platforms you know this case here and there but I V Foundation all of it [TS]

  the video playback stuff tsunami rice stuff and foundation itself [TS]

  foundations probably the first one I can remember [TS]

  members along it was a couple years ago definitely maybe two years ago I forget [TS]

  which one first came out maybe it was three years ago that's the first one [TS]

  that might have been a sign of things to come [TS]

  even though you know it was before this October 2012 reorganization but I V [TS]

  Foundation was one I can remember where they were in the session was in the [TS]

  session and it was clearly a unification between [TS]

  and I was not only that it don't on QuickTime [TS]

  which was kind of unimaginable you know a number of years ago [TS]

  yea time being a crown jewel of the current company I think they learned [TS]

  from it wasn't like that they you know threw it in the garbage but that they [TS]

  said you know you've got to start over [TS]

  yeah 8991 but close probably they probably started work on it [TS]

  89 or 90 and I remember running literally like posted stamp size movies [TS]

  on my Mac Kelsey and being the best thing ever I think like a very cut they [TS]

  were like what we would now uses like animated gifs that taxpayer may be like [TS]

  80 pixels by like 120 or something but it would take you CPA 20 absolutely and [TS]

  truck frames like you know twelve frames per second or something [TS]

  256 colors yeah but you have to you know you have a video player on your computer [TS]

  which was pretty good actually wait did max to 256 colors with it but the color [TS]

  palette did you just go sixteen-bit now mine had 256 colors you have to have a [TS]

  better video card and then they went two days to call it [TS]

  thousands of colors that they had a mode which was I think what would have been [TS]

  would have been next sixteen thousand 65536 yeah exactly but instead of giving [TS]

  you that number they just called it it was very Apple they just called it [TS]

  thousands [TS]

  and that was what that was a good good video card and try to picture a Mac with [TS]

  the 256 bit color palette I did that work with different applications were [TS]

  here I remember because I had it for years and years it there was a standard [TS]

  system of 256 colors but a nap could change that and it was a certain [TS]

  resident it [TS]

  resource type r you would you would just give it to give the system a to hear the [TS]

  256 colors I want ya in RGB so like for example I remember had wasn't called PGA [TS]

  golf I forget but I had a golf game that I was totally addicted to in college and [TS]

  I remember looking at was like a klutz I think it was a CLUT resource to lookup [TS]

  table yeah that's it that's it was clubbed resource and I remember being [TS]

  curious one time I looked at it and of course they had like a $200 it had like [TS]

  i dont hundred and eighty shade of green and pink see you could wear like golf [TS]

  shirt but then you'd you'd see like some weird flashing if you switch between two [TS]

  apps like that ok yeah that's what that's what I was curious about kids in [TS]

  the background the other app does one pallet for the entire screen one image [TS]

  that with a nice pallet like the other ones just complete coverage yeah and so [TS]

  I seem to recall mostly it was four games though so you wouldn't notice most [TS]

  haps wouldn't switch it in a guest if you were looking at like an image editor [TS]

  something with you know the regular not full screen mode with Windows [TS]

  overlapping it would make windows in the background from other apps look you know [TS]

  all sorts of goofy but came back in those days [TS]

  yeah it somehow didn't really strikes me as odd that you know it seemed it seemed [TS]

  understandable it was gross but it was aight well of course [TS]

  and sometimes you need more than eight shades of green and talk about the [TS]

  extensions yea well let me take a break they have a couple sponsors the tank and [TS]

  let me thank our first sponsor good friends at Harbor here however I have [TS]

  good people good people do you have a great idea of a great idea you want to [TS]

  secure a domain name for a great idea so you want something catchy and memorable [TS]

  to represent your online identity however gives you exactly what you need [TS]

  to get the job done you can find the perfect domain for your idea get started [TS]

  working on it rather than wasting time looking for a cool domain name but it's [TS]

  more than just finding a good domain name the big advantage to hovers what [TS]

  happens afterwards because it's not like every other domain registrar I've ever [TS]

  seen where it's full of spam and junk and up cells and gross ads and stuff [TS]

  like that however all they want is your business you pay them they give you a [TS]

  domain name and great service and that's it no up selling no ads no junk gives [TS]

  developers designers programmers have been using her for years and love it you [TS]

  don't have to be an expert to get a domain but never registered a domain [TS]

  name before you love her to really easy not to be a DNS expert to give you easy [TS]

  use powerful tools to manage your domain once you have it so that anyone can do [TS]

  it they have good technical support [TS]

  great technical support really here's the best part let's say you're the [TS]

  opposite and I think the Bliss ownership of the show let's face it there's [TS]

  probably not a lot of you out there never registered a domain you're [TS]

  probably more like me and you've got like 20 30 40 domain to you never even [TS]

  used [TS]

  but you wanna keep them because they're good domain names that you might use in [TS]

  the future [TS]

  here's the thing that ever has that great you've registered them with other [TS]

  postings are registration services that stinking you kinda hate them however [TS]

  will help you move those domains to help her get out it stop stop doing business [TS]

  with with registers he feel gross however will help you get this great [TS]

  service they do all the work for you really really impressive stuff really [TS]

  bottom line it sounds goofy because you don't know why wouldn't they be honest [TS]

  but that's the thing however is honest and it's the truth is red domain [TS]

  registration is it dishonest dirty business however is the good guy in the [TS]

  business where do you go find out easy going to have a dot com they gave me a [TS]

  promo code this is great [TS]

  Jeter Ju to explain it to you in a minute but use that code del know you [TS]

  came from the show the talk show and you don't get 10% off your first purchase [TS]

  just by typing in that promo code so go to Harvard and comm they've got all the [TS]

  new TLD he's everything you go on a calm use the promo code Jeter and find out [TS]

  more [TS]

  why I can't recommend it highly enough to get there to do so here is the place [TS]

  to get access while he's in Brazil right now playing in the World Cup you know I [TS]

  saw I thought I we have so much text of the talk about but I know your fantasy [TS]

  football camp killing to a cool thing York Times head showing the history of [TS]

  the world cup soccer balls I just looking at it [TS]

  my god is so great that up the first the first one looks like a medicine though [TS]

  it looks like shape and american football is somebody took aus football [TS]

  and just pumped up until it went record [TS]

  gets crazy I i guess i do cuz I have never soccer fan I had always assumed [TS]

  that the soccer balls that from like the seventies that iconic black-and-white [TS]

  sort of checkered pattern toggle checkered pattern that was the way they [TS]

  always looked but it wasn't it was really just like a brief period in our [TS]

  youth when they looked like that yeah but to me i basically made yes that [TS]

  exact looked at seven checkered look that's soccer team yeah you like these [TS]

  new soccer balls I i dont I think that they're they're messing around with them [TS]

  too much money and I like to maybe I'm just a traditionalist is something but I [TS]

  forgot to black and white checkered pattern on them [TS]

  yeah yeah they can't even if they want to use these days fewer panels they [TS]

  could somehow put the checker pattern but even then though I kinda don't like [TS]

  the way they keep messing with it like it's it seems contrary to tradition yeah [TS]

  and soccer is allowed by tradition like if you did some the same thing with [TS]

  baseball baseball would look exactly like nineteen twenties looks like a [TS]

  baseball nineteen-thirties looks like a baseball yeah and there's always been [TS]

  rumors in major league baseball that in certain decades that there's a secretive [TS]

  pneus to what's in the center of a baseball which I've never really bought [TS]

  into because you know you're not be baseball fans know that you know home [TS]

  runs and foul balls going to the stand all the time like it's not every game [TS]

  some couple of dozen fans go home with a real major league baseball so it's there [TS]

  to be cut open in [TS]

  looked at but there's always been rumors I went home runs go up or down the [TS]

  hallways conspiracies that they've changed the rubber in the middle of the [TS]

  ball you know that the Commissioner is too has decided we need more home runs [TS]

  and doctored the balls to make them easier to get further etcetera etcetera [TS]

  doctoring the players yeah and there was but you have to go back a hundred years [TS]

  for this there was something called the dead-ball era where where the baseballs [TS]

  were harder to hit further because they were constructed differently yeah they [TS]

  were just I don't know what the heck not gonna what the actual technical [TS]

  difference was this was it like a secret conspiracy this was stated fact and then [TS]

  they you know there's a pre babe ruth i mean she really talking like almost a [TS]

  hundred years ago but it would be like that same thing for basketball league I [TS]

  think you can go back to Lake 1950 and about USA Basketball looks like a [TS]

  basketball I don't get it was soccer [TS]

  European fashionistas [TS]

  yeah I wonder if that's it you know if they make a lot of money by selling [TS]

  these updated soccer balls cuz you know but I guess I would think so you know [TS]

  like any sport that the balls we're out anyway and that there's always going to [TS]

  be you know anybody who plays on a regular basis has to buy balls on a [TS]

  regular basis and it doesn't matter if they change this by the ball yet be [TS]

  getting a new design for the World Cup and I guess what it does is it makes [TS]

  everybody wanna get the official adidas ball whereas I can basketball there's [TS]

  three four five major manufacturers of basketball since they all make same [TS]

  fundamental ball but [TS]

  they used interchangeably during the game now each league usually it releases [TS]

  and a serious level once you get to like series [TS]

  college basketball or professional level there's somebody has a licensing deal [TS]

  and you know and for fairness there's one manufacturer but like you know [TS]

  Spalding has long made the NBA's balls but very few of the college teams used [TS]

  spalding balls days you know we'll send any other brands I don't know why that [TS]

  is i guess its you know marketing job to do ya do we get two extensions do it I [TS]

  think you may be linked to peace page in Heber yeah interesting yeah because it's [TS]

  you know it's this I i get a lot of people were happy story sort of [TS]

  speculated it works he does all the work for hockenberry you know gets all the [TS]

  credit [TS]

  Chinese various does all the hard work hockenberry yeah you don't really need [TS]

  to do the typing I don't wanna read is peace but basically he took a look at [TS]

  this new extension emphasis on extensions and the safety of the way [TS]

  that it's separate apps really just little apps running in a different [TS]

  context and speculated that that could be the future of a new next generation [TS]

  Apple TV with you know with apps with ANOVA and open like an open for Apple [TS]

  and absent or architecture and interesting pieces where ya [TS]

  cool thing about six inches thing is that they don't tell you really what [TS]

  context you gonna be in yeah it doesn't say ok now you coming on for [TS]

  today on textured it gives you get to you I N and now you can actually use the [TS]

  GPU in the background I can see them doing something where I can actually be [TS]

  running into projecting a uint like an off-screen surface and having that [TS]

  surface broadcast to television using basically every play [TS]

  yeah well I'm from video airplanes great four games it wouldn't be right now and [TS]

  and in just pie in the sky what if blah blah blah [TS]

  the idea that the game is running on your iPad or iPhone and just projecting [TS]

  to the screen to get me way too much latency there's no way that you're gonna [TS]

  get you know even fun casual game laced latency with that but yes [TS]

  allowed a lot of games there's some games where that could work I'll [TS]

  backtracked there some games where it could still work but there's a lot of [TS]

  games where they certainly don't think you'd get a big chunk of the console [TS]

  market because he wouldn't be there right and the other thing that I I keep [TS]

  coming back to is we know the basic at least Apple TV as we know it is the [TS]

  cheap parts of an iOS device by which I mean an end it just seems funny because [TS]

  if you're old enough to think that the CPU is one of sheep parts used to be a [TS]

  PC was a very expensive CPUs surrounded by other stuff and now like a series [TS]

  systems on chips not that they're cheap but they're expensive as the touchscreen [TS]

  display you know the glass the actual glass is the expensive part of an iPad [TS]

  and iPhone batteries are expensive and I think that I think that it's simply too [TS]

  I think that the right call it a component but getting all that stuff [TS]

  into these crazy [TS]

  small form factors the affordances he had it costs money in it so but then to [TS]

  take that little tiny system-on-a-chip and put it into a relatively humongous [TS]

  hockey puck like the Apple TV [TS]

  i think is assembly was very cheap so they can sell them like right now today [TS]

  they sell Apple TV for $99 and it has a 52 never updated and you know it's been [TS]

  updated for a while now that you know some time two years ago and it came out [TS]

  but when it did they fire was roughly you're all you know they can put a year [TS]

  old system on a chip into a $99 Apple TV so that means like sometime soon if not [TS]

  if not in the second half of this year maybe early next year they can put the a [TS]

  seven system-on-a-chip in a $99 Apple TV and i'd i'd doesn't make any sense if [TS]

  you've got a nice day 7 it doesn't make any sense to only use it for airport [TS]

  code running on it you know graphic stuff running on metal unease aidid [TS]

  special give me a seven starts with the metal EBIT new 3d rendering it I did [TS]

  have quite as many 78 now again I think it's a business thing depending on how [TS]

  they think they can get into this market Ben Thompson had a good piece of [TS]

  yesterday about disrupting like Apple disrupting the console market had two [TS]

  products you look at nine games and $179 with games which is funny because I [TS]

  updated it with a year prior he had the right idea [TS]

  it would just be a $99 device that you could run games yeah I did as it didn't [TS]

  show [TS]

  electric shock shadow and sometimes in its market we were on it together and [TS]

  send ya an excuse to talk to his key observation was that historically Zuma [TS]

  how to to you know like the Atari 2600 1979 or never came out for a very long [TS]

  stretch consoles costs like 200 bucks and then they try to make their money [TS]

  selling games and there is this $100 $100 you know give or take maybe [TS]

  something closer to 200 but that I guess probably starting with the PlayStation [TS]

  and PlayStation 2 and Xbox they got more expensive than they used to be the PCs [TS]

  were thousands of dollars [TS]

  you know average price hike 2500 $3,000 back in like nineteen eighty 81 and [TS]

  consoles do you just hooked up to TV like $100 and that you know he he made a [TS]

  nice graphics pretty either that was pretty insightful that they've converge [TS]

  that consoles have gotten more expensive because they've gotten more powerful and [TS]

  effectively their gaming PCs and PCs have gotten cheaper and cheaper but [TS]

  added that that trend has left this pricing umbrella underneath the big one [TS]

  like consoles now about 400 bucks extracts was fatally shot it down and i [TS]

  think is argument is that the console manufacturers been chasing sort of the [TS]

  high-end gaming market and that's necessary its Nexus made it necessary [TS]

  to sort of have high-end machines out I'm which costs a bunch of money and [TS]

  they try to make the money back over you know the six years abuse banned console [TS]

  began that is carved out a giant section below it and I think through long time [TS]

  that didn't really matter because what was below sort of the hind consoles [TS]

  wasn't a compelling experience but now I think we're you know within a seven [TS]

  powered level chip I think you can ever pretty compelling experience it alot of [TS]

  players will be happy with it in very low price point and so there's undercut [TS]

  the high and console market in a way that they don't expect any can't really [TS]

  compete with ya and I don't think it's just about games and I know that a lot [TS]

  of us how many many games I don't play games but I know you do have a [TS]

  background actually making games but I think maybe that part of the thing that [TS]

  we're overlooking is only focused on watching movies and TV shows right on an [TS]

  Apple TV or any of these dunno devices that you hook up there with you could do [TS]

  that I know you can do it on you know you can get movies and TV shows on your [TS]

  Playstation or Xbox and games but there's other you could do anything [TS]

  you'd want to project on a TV right so think about the way that we can talk [TS]

  about other things that have been blocked by an ounce meant but it [TS]

  occurred to me that maybe like panics status board could be Sherlock by a [TS]

  future Apple TVs that runs Notification Center wit [TS]

  right and that you know you might not do it in your living room for your family [TS]

  but that if you're a business you know you might have a TV set up with you know [TS]

  Apple TV hooked up to it and just run notification center and have you know [TS]

  company information and status did that in the second I think it's a good idea [TS]

  right and its powerful cuz then it's not just what here's the widget Apple things [TS]

  you might [TS]

  it's any widget from any app including one that you the company with this board [TS]

  up on the wall wrote yourselves career own internal system not telling you [TS]

  things to get it in a box that you just plug into a TV is pretty does not mean [TS]

  you have to have with the Procurement Office in order to get it right it's you [TS]

  know it's lunch for 45 people so I think it's a good idea [TS]

  you know I know so you can protect your slides onto it but when you want to do [TS]

  the presentation yeah yeah [TS]

  anywhere you'd have a screen or project something is possible place where you [TS]

  would use the Apple TV and you know having these extension API's make it [TS]

  possible to do a lot more than just show video or play a game [TS]

  think there's an interesting product in there I don't know if they're going to [TS]

  call it Apple TV who knows who knows if they change the name of that and I'd [TS]

  also don't know if it's this year or not I think that a little bit further [TS]

  I'd kinda did last week too and I don't know it doesn't seem impossible I don't [TS]

  know I don't know anything for sure but I kinda get the feeling that the that [TS]

  it's not on the list of things that are coming at the end of the year and if you [TS]

  know everybody seems excited but yeah but I think there's a lot of people who [TS]

  assume that TV has to be one of them because it's the one has been rumored [TS]

  for the longest meanest County classic game everybody assumes it gets back to [TS]

  what we talked about the extensions or did you know accelerated what did people [TS]

  say they want an apple just can't deliver something different that does [TS]

  address the problem so I know just can be a wider TV you whatever but whatever [TS]

  it is they do seem pretty pleased it sort of different topic one of the [TS]

  things I wanted to write about but I skipped a fellow gone long enough [TS]

  a piece but when you go to WTC and we were there I was there you see people [TS]

  who you don't see throughout the year especially people who work at Apple you [TS]

  know people who I'm friends with or semi friends with or who have met before and [TS]

  there is a certain personal repertoire and I said with mark fuhrman on this [TS]

  show [TS]

  couple weeks ago that you develop you know not necessarily giving spilling [TS]

  secrets or you know tips that are you know super juicy or something like that [TS]

  but you can learn things that you wouldn't learn any other way because [TS]

  face-to-face communication is somehow more human I really got a sense talking [TS]

  to people at Apple last week at WTC they're happy happy in a way that they [TS]

  haven't been again in fact one friends literally said the words it's funny [TS]

  which I thought was pretty interesting did you pick up on anything like that or [TS]

  the actual almost exactly like a really interesting and I thought that fun again [TS]

  and again it's not because they're taking it easy and relaxing I mean these [TS]

  are people who love their work yes I know these people again colonies had a [TS]

  working weekend unfortunately I hope not cuz I just put people out but then again [TS]

  the Institute tackling interesting problems and they're having a good time [TS]

  well and I think gets to the part I think it is also part of what I did [TS]

  write about which is this sort of like go back to the collaboration or parts of [TS]

  the company working together on the same things you know that that there were [TS]

  iowa's people working on the umbrella term continuity isn't one Peter its [TS]

  umbrella name for several features [TS]

  but that they're working hand in hand at the same time with people doing the same [TS]

  frame works on the Mac side because the whole point of them is do you know like [TS]

  handoff and off doesn't exist if there are collaborating right but it means [TS]

  that there's more people that nobody is like sitting there twiddling their [TS]

  thumbs while the attention of the top executives is all on Iowa State Miami [TS]

  the program office used to be divided between groups in now did [TS]

  combined right and i think that it's more a lot more not just a little more [TS]

  but a lot more engineers are fully engaged on high-priority projects than [TS]

  ever before and that's what makes them happy and I think so plus I mean so last [TS]

  year it had been a slog to get I was 74 style departure probably some people not [TS]

  that they were better necessarily just did you know it's a big change that [TS]

  there's always some kind of national team [TS]

  change it yeah I worry about that I hope that didn't come across as being and [TS]

  hope for stop because I feel like as time goes on it easy to slide on the guy [TS]

  and as time goes on I actually think he doesn't deserve it right and i think [TS]

  thats what might have soured some people is that the people who worked under him [TS]

  who were in his division the iOS division mostly really really liked him [TS]

  and they always felt like he had their back and because he was an effective [TS]

  corporate info in fighter and was obviously famously you know close to [TS]

  Steve Jobs that having their back meant that they you know that's a great boss [TS]

  right that's a great guy to be working for I get to end [TS]

  the other thing I didn't know that until recently I goods the Don melton story [TS]

  but the Don Melvin story that that forced all was the guy who went to back [TS]

  for the carbon strategy but now we're going way back now we're talking like [TS]

  1988 1999 [TS]

  you talked about this with rich Siegel debug recently great great episode of [TS]

  the show which made was actually one of the few people who I could save my [TS]

  former boss is super thoughtful story short you know the Apple buys next next [TS]

  comes in jobs in the next leadership effectively take over our poor correctly [TS]

  you know that the people who were doing reasonably trouble is that their [TS]

  leadership was was crap they come in they come up with a strategy and their [TS]

  first strategy is OK everybody's gonna write Co collapse caused koko's awesome [TS]

  trust us it's better now there are correct that Coco is great and that it [TS]

  was better they were not correct that that was an effective that Apple was in [TS]

  a position to dictate something like that because they needed big developers [TS]

  like Adobe and Microsoft to have their apps on the system and rewriting from [TS]

  scratch is not something they were gonna do [TS]

  system there might not even work right cuz Apple been promising next-generation [TS]

  operating systems for the whole decade [TS]

  and at the smaller level developers like bare-bones the small ones weren't on [TS]

  board with it either because they could actually even less afford to gamble [TS]

  because they couldn't afford to spend a year rewriting for a new system could [TS]

  put a small developer out of business [TS]

  so long country city of carbon [TS]

  it's surprising to me in hindsight but not really having met forestall you know [TS]

  once or twice and knowing a little bit about him but knowing he was in the next [TS]

  guy had been there with the next there is a perception on the Mac side that the [TS]

  next people all wanted that they were a little religious about Coco and the next [TS]

  stuff and it's interesting to me that one of the next guy's was the one who [TS]

  really fought for the carbon strategy with a nap and the whole reason I think [TS]

  practical in terms of realizing that it was a good strategy for Apple to keep [TS]

  developers on board but I think it was also the case that forced always here he [TS]

  was a supporter of third-party developers yeah I think so too so we [TS]

  have been released yet but we didn't interview with a hidden camera who was [TS]

  the director and churches iOS apps like the beginning of the project to a couple [TS]

  years ago it's going beyond the Bundaberg yeah it's not out yet but it [TS]

  went long it's going to be in 22 house against but the first half he started in [TS]

  ninety three and he was with the company during this entire process that you [TS]

  described and he was working on carbon and it's so if anything the judges said [TS]

  interest you [TS]

  more information than you can shake a stick at on coming up do you need such a [TS]

  smart but certainly history of this point and it's surprisingly little of [TS]

  that has come out I think it's just the nature of Apple's culture of not really [TS]

  talking about the internals of your work i mean it's not secret anymore but you [TS]

  know it's not like I think don is burning any bridges by having said that [TS]

  it's but Apple people just don't talk about stuff like that [TS]

  hear these stories is is usually there's something that's kind of the year [TS]

  kind of way the interview went along and I wanted to talk to him you know who [TS]

  betrayed the back straight people and then focus on something I was going to [TS]

  focus on you know I was to government and dance but if she so fascinating [TS]

  historical stuff I just couldn't help it go down the rabbit hole anyway I you [TS]

  know I think that as time goes on to forestall story and then whatever [TS]

  friction there was with him in the other executives and cooks decision to to to [TS]

  oust him it's not a simple story of well forestall was you know bad guy or an [TS]

  asshole and you know it was complicated story in probably the it without [TS]

  question in my mind the most difficult decision that Tim Cook is made a senior [TS]

  citizen yet the piece arguing that I think so I think as time goes on we hear [TS]

  it you know just hear stories like that like to hear that forced always the guy [TS]

  went to bat for carbon even though he was an ex guy who clearly was [TS]

  evangelizing for Coco you know it just shows that he was you know he's good for [TS]

  third party developers but that is still might have been the right you know more [TS]

  and more it seems like it was the right move to to move on [TS]

  well it's it's hard to look at this WWDC and argue that they made a misstep right [TS]

  rights clinic is greatest as far as this is a new era [TS]

  but it's you know where i've what i've i've chosen to frame it is that the [TS]

  company has grown up there's a maturity 22 their opening up internally church I [TS]

  mean people have been saying to new Apple and maybe but not really [TS]

  ultimately Apple is still going to do the things that you can depend on them [TS]

  to do which is acting their own interests first but now they do seem to [TS]

  see their interests aligned with third parties in in a in a much more open kind [TS]

  of way where maybe previously they thought they could do everything in its [TS]

  debut being a grown up in a human is largely to me about being disciplined [TS]

  and that you can be an idiot when you're you know teenager and a college student [TS]

  in your twenties but that certain point you've gotta stop being an idiot and [TS]

  you've got to be a little bit more discipline and behave in a way that not [TS]

  necessarily [TS]

  whatever you want to do at the moment but it's part of a larger plan and I [TS]

  think it's true for companies to and I think that immature I i say new Apple is [TS]

  the new Apple after the next and that I love her too that way before I i've been [TS]

  using it for a little bit and just well I thought about that cuz you know a lot [TS]

  of the next geysers guys like but trouble who count I think he was it [TS]

  apple's next and now he's back at Apple you know it wasn't just Steve Jobs right [TS]

  and when jobs left he took a couple people with him or or they were Apple [TS]

  people who after Jobs was forced out of the company and 85 who then left Apple [TS]

  and then went to next because they like the Apple and Steve was there you know [TS]

  and that it to me that's the best way to see I know that some people phrases hey [TS]

  was a reverse acquisition Apple bought next index took over a bowl and [TS]

  leadership level that's true but I think it [TS]

  reunification is to me the best way to look at it makes it sound happy to write [TS]

  that in their hearts they were always in alignment that they've to companies that [TS]

  valued the same things but designed interface [TS]

  sure well as come back I would come back to this corporate maturity remember that [TS]

  can only take a second break here and thank our great friends at Squarespace [TS]

  everybody knows Squarespace they've sponsored the show many times they [TS]

  sponsor a bunch of other shows [TS]

  here's the thing they sponsored the show repeatedly because people keep saying [TS]

  that because they have a great service people haven't checked it out you've [TS]

  heard me talk about it but then when people do they finally hey I do need a [TS]

  new website because I'm starting my own podcast are you starting a blog or [TS]

  you're selling t-shirts or something like that and then you know people who [TS]

  listen to these shows that while everybody's always tell me about [TS]

  Squarespace I'll go look at Squarespace [TS]

  guess what people look at Squarespace there's a reason they tend to sign up [TS]

  and it's just a great thing it's an all-in-one service for hosting building [TS]

  designing a website the website of almost any sort that you can imagine I [TS]

  guess said you could lead to a blog to a podcast you can do a store all sorts of [TS]

  things they have built-in templates professionally designed really really [TS]

  good looking to choose from [TS]

  you want to customize the design because you know CSS you can do that [TS]

  you want to decide which components including your website you can do it in [TS]

  their graphical interface drag-and-drop move stuff around on the other hand you [TS]

  know code you can go in and you can inject your own JavaScript if you want [TS]

  to they've got high-level features nice visual editing low-level features for [TS]

  you can inject code for safety if you feel you know you know how to do that [TS]

  they have award-winning technical support they've just expanded used to [TS]

  all be in New York now there in New York and Dublin 24 hours seven days a week if [TS]

  you have a website idea for a website do you want to build or you have a website [TS]

  you're not happy with the system you have running it right now go check out [TS]

  Squarespace square space.com / Gruber square space.com / grouper and also on [TS]

  offer code the offer code is Jay G just my initials J G and you save 10% off big [TS]

  bucks over the lifetime your counters once you go there you're there for years [TS]

  so my thanks to Squarespace so corporate maturity that's how I look at it I do [TS]

  and and I think its discipline and it takes discipline to do multiple things [TS]

  at once and to collaborate and I think when Apple's was new Apple was immature [TS]

  I think that it it it manifested itself in do one thing at a time and it left a [TS]

  lot big part of the company [TS]

  untapped you know and you know I'd like to it today and had a great piece on it [TS]

  and 2007 but in 2007 the iPhone first came out they had a press release they [TS]

  actually had the issue a press release before WBC and it wasn't that they were [TS]

  expected to announce leopard they had they were expected to release leopard [TS]

  leopard was supposed to ship to consumers at WWDC not like a developer [TS]

  beta but the real thing and they had to say in advance of WTC this isn't gonna [TS]

  happen shoot for October [TS]

  have a beta for developers WABC but it's nowhere near shipping because we had a [TS]

  pool engineering and QA resources off Pakistan to ship the iPhone you know and [TS]

  it's not the only example of it but you know that they were you know I think a [TS]

  lot of it comes down to Steve Jobs he was insular and you know what his [TS]

  attention was on was where he directed the company focused well both you know [TS]

  that he was wrote that the it it's a different thing for the company to be [TS]

  focused then for one person to be focused sure I think and I think mature [TS]

  out Paul is doing more things at the same time but in unity that they're not [TS]

  all over the place you know any and an example maybe it's unfair maybe you tell [TS]

  me so Apple announced a new programming language and it really is no and a [TS]

  generous and we can talk I'd like to talk to you and see what you think about [TS]

  what I've learned in two weeks since it was announced is pretty interesting but [TS]

  it's really is a new language this is no joke they having just you know I made a [TS]

  small tweak to some existing language and that's a pretty big deal and they [TS]

  expect to have you know millions of apps written using this language starting [TS]

  this year and it runs on both iOS and Mac so it's not like this abstract [TS]

  here's a new language and but it doesn't really have you know you can use it to [TS]

  write apps or we can use it to read Mac apps it you can only use it right I less [TS]

  apps or the other way around [TS]

  it's now here's here's a new language and you can start using it now or very [TS]

  soon because of this in texts but I think they expect to finalize at least [TS]

  finalize the 1.0 version of it very soon [TS]

  and you can start using it for real in production now comparing contest trust [TS]

  with Google which put a crackerjack like Hall of Fame team together [TS]

  of language guys and they came up with a new language go which has all you know I [TS]

  wouldn't call it that close to swift but it's the same basic idea of what solve [TS]

  the problems of CD without losing the performance of see let's do something [TS]

  stake safety likes it adds the big theme of shared by almost all newer systems [TS]

  language you know Java was having in a run time is about safety and security [TS]

  same thing with sheesh csharp which is in layman's terms Microsoft's version of [TS]

  job maybe Microsoft's vision for something like go is about you know [TS]

  getting rid of pointers and stuff like that Swift is about getting rid of [TS]

  pointers and memory management stuff like that for safety and for programmer [TS]

  efficiency but while having that team performant but so google has this new [TS]

  language well-respected it it's been out for a while now but it has absolutely [TS]

  nothing to do with Android so they've got this platform with hundreds of [TS]

  millions I could maybe even close to a billion now devices running it and a new [TS]

  programming language but the two are just that there's no relationship [TS]

  between them whatsoever and reduces version of Java and and maybe that's [TS]

  unfair that it you know that anything Google does has to be part of Android or [TS]

  something like that but it just seems to me that Google is still an immature [TS]

  company in that regard in that they have these different initiatives and they're [TS]

  not really pulling together it's throw it all up against the wall and see what [TS]

  sticks yeah I think if they do have a little bit of it sort of [TS]

  style being really not knocking but they will try a bunch of different stuff [TS]

  sometimes yeah that's exactly what go seems like it's an added that doesn't [TS]

  mean ago there's anything wrong with that they should have done differently [TS]

  but to me there something more interesting and more about Apple's swift [TS]

  because it's so practically useful yes and in fact you can tell from the design [TS]

  of it did it was built to interoperate with Objective C ya soon named functions [TS]

  pseudonym tremors and functions like objective seed but in Objective C you [TS]

  have like multiple parts to the method they might have to reach after each [TS]

  public URL for resource but I type that committed to the two parameters [TS]

  function you can you can name them similarly [TS]

  each parameter in a function can have a separate name but you can't swap them [TS]

  around it in many languages with name travellers you can go get swift in many [TS]

  languages with need paramus you can put the primaries in arbitrary water that's [TS]

  not the case was sweating because it's built interoperate with objective and [TS]

  subjective see you couldn't move them around either can do it is what happens [TS]

  in Objective C is it basically takes all of those parts and it sticks into one [TS]

  string methodName called us letter and that's what gets looked up in the [TS]

  meantime yeah like the traditional way of doing it would be if you have two [TS]

  parameters to a method call or call it a function wherever you most languages you [TS]

  have to know which order to put them [TS]

  you say here's my function my function pregnancies first parameter second [TS]

  primary and you have to know what those 2009 @ order and once you get the three [TS]

  you know maybe if you get two for your you've got a problem with your design of [TS]

  the function but you know three is not crazy but then you've got three things [TS]

  to remember and you could easily screwed that up and if they're both if two of [TS]

  them were energized you're not going to get compiler warning and you might have [TS]

  a bug bit around and you don't have to context understand what they're so the [TS]

  name trainers helped a lot right because it reads more like language the purpose [TS]

  of the second parameter is right there where you're putting it may I see [TS]

  exactly what you mean so in swift in theory they could have done it you know [TS]

  which sounds like a nice idea here just put the name parameters in whatever [TS]

  order you one but I see what you mean that it's it's meant to be a sibling two [TS]

  objectives on the same time so explain objected to taken as the language of [TS]

  objectives and then there's what's called a fun time which is kind of what [TS]

  you know where the magic happens effectively the runtime is where all the [TS]

  classes are run time is where we need to send a message to class when you ask the [TS]

  class and object to do something under the word what happens as we go into the [TS]

  one time and you look up where the little piece of code that can respond to [TS]

  a message in memory and then the computer jumped to its so sexy so that [TS]

  runtime is chaired between swift and Objective C is the same time what's [TS]

  different is the language Lee amount up to inject sees can I guess now that the [TS]

  traditional way of addressing that language which is that one time which is [TS]

  obviously sea-based power and Molly C [TS]

  and it's got this objectively on top of it which we get all the classes the [TS]

  message handling the fancy stuff we've come to expect from cocoa so swift is [TS]

  just another way of addressing that the runtime and it does away with all of the [TS]

  sort of the follies of C [TS]

  arguably it picks up a shift its own here and there but it's like you said [TS]

  you give it a point to get rid of all of the hopefully most of the ways you can [TS]

  kind of cultural and and be insecure what do you make of consumer this [TS]

  volatile closely but in the keynote they they put forth that not only was it as [TS]

  fast as Objective C but they gave two examples they showed that it was faster [TS]

  than one of them seemed a little realistic which was like some kind of [TS]

  you know standard security compression encryption algorithm and at the same [TS]

  encryption algorithm you know mathematically intense in and swift was [TS]

  actually faster than objective see the other 10 and I think it was you at [TS]

  dinner last week it was actually total bullshit quote complex objects or things [TS]

  just like that's not a thing I don't think it was a dinner with both of you [TS]

  at the at the prime rib about what a nonsensical like it means nothing that's [TS]

  the thing could literally just me and so that one was much faster than objective [TS]

  seat so the reason I'm gonna get that one is faster is in Objective C every [TS]

  time you want to see if two objects or equal you need to go and look up the [TS]

  method like the is equal method so you have to go to the one times you get one [TS]

  trip for the meantime project to check the eagle and going to sort something [TS]

  obviously checking stuff people a lot [TS]

  now with swift because you can say that all of the objects that you gonna sort [TS]

  of gonna be the exact same type you only have to go look up that method wants in [TS]

  too much time was once you've got it you know they're just going to apply to all [TS]

  of the objects in your collection [TS]

  you know what i mean that makes sense so he has been asking each object ok how do [TS]

  you want me to compare you okay maybe it's not inexpensive things but it's if [TS]

  you're doing it to source and when they call it a complex object sort I'm pretty [TS]

  sure they just threw a whole bunch of crap it like a lot and you know so yes [TS]

  professor in other words I think it's I can put it in layman's terms is it would [TS]

  swift would allow you with objects to do something just once even if it's a [TS]

  hundred thousand objects that would have to happen hundred thousand times an [TS]

  object of C and even if it's relatively lightweight you're still there is [TS]

  something that you don't have to do each iteration each comparison to see it it's [TS]

  very small but you know but right when you're doing something I got a hundred [TS]

  thousand items to compare anything you don't have you can do once instead of [TS]

  you time through the loop is is yeah so that's maybe a little bit of a contrived [TS]

  example you could actually trick that an Objective C two of you fancy pants [TS]

  well the thing I am thinking about though is the fact that I i would think [TS]

  and so far from what I've seen i've seen i've seen some performance examples that [TS]

  people have written simple little things were Objective C still comes out ahead [TS]

  but that is easily that Swift looks fast enough [TS]

  oh yeah right like if there are problems with swift it's not going to be about [TS]

  performing no I don't want to I was ragging on that particular think a good [TS]

  title and I think that's more of a marketing [TS]

  shoes you know for the keynote yeah let's face it I don't know this but the [TS]

  swift team was probably rolling her eyes at that very very smart people I think [TS]

  sure think I think it was great writers classic on trial and he's got very fast [TS]

  jet to seek 02 02 do it and he voted and swift and his initial implementation was [TS]

  eighty times slower but he managed within a day of sort of optimizing in [TS]

  figuring things out he got it to be only 1.5 times slower than in Objective C now [TS]

  keep in mind is Objective C one he's had forever [TS]

  he's been using it for a long time twenty years and he got within very [TS]

  close to it in only a day and his conclusion and this this is from misuse [TS]

  series of tweets are getting something about his conclusion was it is going to [TS]

  take a little bit of time to figure out how to make swift fast but it certainly [TS]

  got it where it counts are you can you can definitely get there and i'm looking [TS]

  forward to it I think it's telling that effectively will we now know any didn't [TS]

  take credit for it it's typical Apple way but you know it makes sense that [TS]

  they let Lattner Chris Lattner do the demo in the Keno which was super cool I [TS]

  would compile ok comes out of his cave where there were only five people on [TS]

  stage right there was talk mostly Craig Federici a senior vice president one [TS]

  product demo by Brian kroll [TS]

  shoulders team of product marketing guy won by jaws whose [TS]

  I think second 22 sheler and product marketing but those guys were both very [TS]

  briefly maybe like five minutes each and then a nice big data from Chris Lattner [TS]

  the keynote which is crazy but it is effectively what we now know is that for [TS]

  about a year it started feat started in 2010 in for a first-year latter was [TS]

  doing it on his own so it's you know not that it's his language and it should be [TS]

  swift by Chris Lattner but that he's and he's the guy you know who did the [TS]

  compiler he's you know claims and lov ya think it's interesting that the language [TS]

  came from the compiler and not the abstract you know you know like Ruby [TS]

  like Ruby like Matt's had the idea for the language right and that's how I did [TS]

  it anywhere near as complex as a programming language but that's how I [TS]

  did mark down here here's what I want I want to put asterisks around the world [TS]

  and then have tags come out around it and the output and then I'd then I [TS]

  figured out why how do I make that happen in a perl script whereas latter [TS]

  was starting with here's a compiler and here is a runtime and here's a bunch of [TS]

  frameworks for you know huge you know wide frame marks how do I make a [TS]

  language that optimal for this and so I don't think it's any you know I would [TS]

  probably be surprising if the performance was bad because you know [TS]

  they start to starting with the compiler this and there is a little bit of a [TS]

  language want to smell but I could just be another man [TS]

  yeah I think so too I guess I don't know if I should be surprised I did think it [TS]

  was crazy forget who's tweet it was where I was in a thing on on swift [TS]

  Syracuse and we're talking about how big the language was made another somebody [TS]

  said just go to a playground and gold imports weft to import the swift which [TS]

  is that I would you call it the framework that like the the runtime well [TS]

  whatever it is but yeah yeah they have a name for it and I think and then you [TS]

  command click swift after you've imported it to bring it up in the [TS]

  playground inspected and you can see that Swift itself is actually written in [TS]

  swift that the language is actually the the true what is the language itself is [TS]

  extremely yeah I'm looking at it now so there's no so all of the building [TS]

  operators right sohn operators like an equal or in addition just edition is not [TS]

  really part of the language it's in the swift object or class you know that [TS]

  implicitly imported into every swift yeah cause I thought I was a little [TS]

  surprised they did operator overall I did were you at [TS]

  operating over living in some cases it makes turning pro Comp Sci [TS]

  operator overloading C++ is the only language I ever did any work in the [TS]

  operator overloading and the gist of operator overloading as you can so you [TS]

  could say right out of the bag if you save 4+4 you gonna get eight cuz it [TS]

  knows how to do a juror's but you can write your own class class could be no [TS]

  color and you could say color a plus [TS]

  color be and get a new color and you define what it means to add color one [TS]

  color to another [TS]

  and which in some cases at school so you don't have to write a function that says [TS]

  add colors color a color be you could just say color a-plus color be and [TS]

  you've that's overriding the plus sign in the language sounds great but in [TS]

  practice it would drive you nuts because people who you were working with if [TS]

  you're sharing a code would do stupid things would make him he would have a [TS]

  cute idea and you would look at something like an expression like a plus [TS]

  be and it would not be a plus it's like a plus bibi is well we won't need any [TS]

  negative values in some weird stuff that you would never guess by looking at the [TS]

  gun you have to ya so I am NOT a fan operator overloading it does ultimately [TS]

  come down to basically you can have to trust the team that you work with ya [TS]

  which is true for like a lot of programming but I i I kinda figured a [TS]

  lot of crazy shit gonna yeah I wonder I don't know but the reason it once you do [TS]

  go to a playground and do import swift and you can see why as operator [TS]

  overloading because all of the operators in a language or to finance with itself [TS]

  with its own which is sort of recursive mentality that I can imagine is comes [TS]

  natural Chris Lattner is you know if I explained this to him how in every way [TS]

  but as to me it's sort of like mind bending looking behind the matrix like [TS]

  while all of these super simple things like what does the plus sign mean when [TS]

  you have an internal one side and injuring the other is defined in swift [TS]

  it's kind of funny it's like basically did you know they designed the debates [TS]

  language to have two things you can add and you can compare and then everything [TS]

  else just gets built in the end you end up with a language that not for both its [TS]

  you know really really easy to read and simply [TS]

  it looks like it's I mean I think people confuse it be things we'll see I'm [TS]

  really looking forward to it actually getting some work done with it I think [TS]

  it's going to be a long time but there is a piece recently by Aaron Hill guess [TS]

  you didn't do it [TS]

  saying that you still gonna need to learn Objective C I think if yes I agree [TS]

  with him again I don't think the swift is harder to lyndon Objective C but I [TS]

  think what he does when he teaches is basically just ignores all of this stuff [TS]

  and the objective sees relatively easy you know when you get to this Easter [TS]

  things get a little while but I guess it's at least 25 is out for jesse is [TS]

  something that you don't need in any way shape or form at least I can know that [TS]

  they're not shipping and he works with swift now they probably I'll bet they'll [TS]

  start without even said at the WTC the day they rewrote the WWDC a pin and you [TS]

  know they meant the whole thing I mean I am still using it to watch sessions in [TS]

  the ABA's [TS]

  perfect could never do anything better than any other previous year [TS]

  yeah and presumably as the language settles down they will start writing [TS]

  frameworks with it but I can see why they're not you know they want to be [TS]

  super conservative with the framers of the heart and soul of the company [TS]

  yes they are getting the kind you and I think that I came accross last week at [TS]

  WWDC to it you know that we're Microsoft has one operating system windows that [TS]

  they want to run on all devices [TS]

  Apple has two very different operating systems but that should they do share [TS]

  framework yeah definitely and ready to make that point yet the foundation and [TS]

  all of the other frameworks are really what Apple shares like honestly they [TS]

  could they could probably just pulled it to get out and stick a different kernel [TS]

  in there and you know so long as all the framework should still be happy to know [TS]

  that it's the identity of the company's I would not that I think that they don't [TS]

  know if they were ever gonna replace the kernel but I would almost assume that [TS]

  they've written with that in mind like in a way that they rode them in mind [TS]

  that they should be CPU architecture in the pace definitely you know and that's [TS]

  so they could switch from PowerPC and Intel and that they could switch from [TS]

  intel Turbo arm without you know any kind of pain or the sort of pain that [TS]

  people have had yeah I mean that's a lot of good stuff to go next and on their [TS]

  travels very agnostic about the particular let me take a break here [TS]

  thank our final sponsor the show another repeat sponsor great guys are good [TS]

  friends [TS]

  transporter aka file transporter from connected data they've been on a show [TS]

  before but if you don't not familiar with he said it would you like your own [TS]

  private cloud that lets you securely store and share files in a way that is [TS]

  completely private and resistant to governmental snooping on our way to [TS]

  automatically backup all your photos and videos that you take on your iPhone and [TS]

  iPad here's how could I worked out if you're not running your own server while [TS]

  you go there you buy a transporter from them a little gadget adorable very small [TS]

  very quiet [TS]

  put in your house connect to the internet cable to it and when you [TS]

  install a little bit offer your Mac or install their app on your iPhone and now [TS]

  you've got your own little Dropbox except instead of the data being served [TS]

  somewhere in Amazon's cloud or Google's cloud or Apple's cloud it's right there [TS]

  on your device but you can buy 21 at home or at work and they'll sync with [TS]

  each other and all they do to go to the cloud is just to coordinate with their [TS]

  addresses are behind your network there's no place in the cloud with your [TS]

  data is copied to rate from the one transporter to the other and you can set [TS]

  up things just like Dropbox worry if I have an account and English has an [TS]

  account I can share a file from him and instead of going to some sort of shared [TS]

  server it's only on your device so personally for peace of mind this is the [TS]

  appeal is obvious these guys I've said this before minus wanted it they could [TS]

  not have gone into business with this idea at a better time given what [TS]

  happened in the last year with an essay and other you know Western governments [TS]

  snooping on the internet but even from a legal perspective for some people they [TS]

  know in healthcare and stuff like that they have things that they want to share [TS]

  with each other but that they are legally not even allowed to put on a [TS]

  device that's not within their control transporter can help solve that really [TS]

  great idea well done [TS]

  nice hardware they've got two basic ways to do it you can get the fuck yeah the [TS]

  park is the car transporters think Apple TV sized pocket adorable very small then [TS]

  you by the puck you plug your own hard drive in the back to bring your own [TS]

  external hard drive [TS]

  plug in and it works the regular transporter is a little bit bigger and [TS]

  you can get it right from them and various sizes with a hard drive right in [TS]

  there [TS]

  r or you could buy that transporter and just put the raw naked hard-driving [TS]

  there up to you [TS]

  lot options here's the idea they had sizes they have 500 gigabyte one [TS]

  terabyte two terabyte capacities so go there go to File transporter store.com [TS]

  file transporter store.com use this code pts the talk-show pts 10 pts 10 and [TS]

  you'll save 10% off your purchase up to 35 bucks they're not expensive at eight [TS]

  thirty five bucks 35 bucks so use that code TTS 10 at filed transporters [TS]

  store.com and check them out if you have any reason that you want to share stuff [TS]

  privately great thing I've got one here and I got 12 full disclosure that they [TS]

  are sponsored by show trying to find my my discount codes but now that they're [TS]

  great time literally can use it to ten days we're talking about the subsumed [TS]

  just British kid growing up we should start talking about movies yeah yeah so [TS]

  here's a guy out where he's being sarcastic Brian asshole I like people [TS]

  who criticize me that we're just finished a long Gruber post and it's now [TS]

  clear that Tim Cook is Apple's Steve Ballmer which is exactly what Apple [TS]

  needs so well I think what he's trying to say [TS]

  is I think he's trying to make an argument that I'm going to say that [TS]

  whatever is going on now is good and if Tim Cook is a operations type minded guy [TS]

  not a design guide then thats and now he's CEO that now that's exactly what [TS]

  happened where allied I but see I would I would say it's too early to tell [TS]

  whether it's eventually going to be a problem not having a product I top the [TS]

  company but I think the early signs are that he gets that and that he doesn't [TS]

  try to be a product's guy yeah I think the biggest mistake [TS]

  bomber or anybody who wasn't so product focus could make is to try to step into [TS]

  the shoes of like the ultimate product and by which I mean both both bill gates [TS]

  I don't think he was at the end of the day in a very different way but you know [TS]

  he was also focused on what was actually shipping I i think i say i and I pointed [TS]

  out in my piece today I think that the John Browett hiring and quick firing is [TS]

  a good sign because it wasn't I had to tone down my initial language as a [TS]

  disastrous stint in my early draft maybe the one that you read like but I changed [TS]

  it to all faded cuz it wasnt disastrous he wasn't there long enough to do [TS]

  anything really bad was it like he just looks on the wheel and write it was only [TS]

  like people were after he took over your walking into the Apple store in the [TS]

  computers were set up on on folding tables [TS]

  you know the lights were flickering and [TS]

  you know like you're on a subway station I think most people who weren't really [TS]

  finely tuned to what people who worked in the stores were saying didn't even [TS]

  notice it wasn't there long enough just a cultural misfit yeah and you know I [TS]

  think you know I think Tim Cook news that dismissing him was going to make [TS]

  him that is Tim Cook look bad right in a way you know this is the guy was only on [TS]

  the job six months and they were like oh by the way jump out his left knee [TS]

  you know its tacit admission invade my first executive hire was right and I [TS]

  think it would have been a lot easier to at least easier ego is to just stick [TS]

  with the guy you know and dead you know clearly took a look and thought you know [TS]

  what I think I needed entirely 180 degrees different sort of person take [TS]

  over this job which is exactly what Angela Ahrendts you know clearly is a [TS]

  barrier draw it came from you know nickel and dimed electronics retailer [TS]

  has a reputation for being pretty low low margin low ran and you know Angela [TS]

  Ahrendts comes from genuine luxury recent retail nothing I mean the worst [TS]

  thing to do when you make mistakes to double down on it so it's exactly but [TS]

  it's easy human nature makes it so easy to do that because it feels like the [TS]

  worst thing to do is to say I'm every time he ordered one too many drinks and [TS]

  this is the right thing to do [TS]

  when I left my left town I left early Thursday morning and you still there for [TS]

  a couple of days and I woke up and i hope i gave guide the rest of that [TS]

  bottle of bourbon because I can't get an on-air planning to carry on and I hate [TS]

  to throw it away and I got a quick hurry up and Packers know you know you [TS]

  probably still asleep and I looked at the bottle and has he was empty and i [TS]

  got I was right to worry that I didn't give it to take with you and then my [TS]

  second thought was to realize that that was a mistake [TS]

  second thought was to realize that that was a mistake [TS]

  a different sort of mistake [TS]

  here's what I have I am I think that complacency is the problem that beset [TS]

  giant companies ok and I certainly think that that's what I think that's what [TS]

  ailed bomber term at Microsoft [TS]

  you know that he was too complacent too willing to keep making money and you [TS]

  know again in defense of bomber record label way higher profits and revenues [TS]

  than they ever made under Bill Gates you know those financial things GRU GRU GRU [TS]

  under Steve Ballmer but I think he got complacent in terms of moving onward and [TS]

  being willing to cannibalize its own stuff and make something new and take a [TS]

  chance that might take away from the existing stuff and I don't get the sense [TS]

  that I agree that you're saying and similar to two then last night I think [TS]

  intended to the same thing intended for a long time was the only console [TS]

  manufacturer it that was you know making money on their devices and I think they [TS]

  kind of got addicted to do that kind of revenue stream and now they're kind of [TS]

  in a bad spot where Apple does do something they're just going to take the [TS]

  legs out from underneath Nintendo and Nintendo can't be up on the high end cuz [TS]

  that's not what they were doing [TS]

  complacency is a weird think everybody would say no I'm not complacent and any [TS]

  leaders gonna say that they're not and I think bomber would be the first to say [TS]

  no way I'm complete and I want to destroy everybody but denial is is hard [TS]

  to recognize yes you can go into denial about things like what the iPhone was [TS]

  gonna do to Windows Mobile which was a really that big really Windows Mobile [TS]

  never really was being anyway that they were just thought they were going to be [TS]

  big and their whole attack plan was attacking BlackBerry and Symbian [TS]

  where they think it felt to me like they they felt entitled to be big [TS]

  Jermaine it was exactly right that you know that was microsoft was Microsoft [TS]

  enters market with a new platform it's going to be majority share because not [TS]

  because of rational reasons but because that's what happens when Microsoft [TS]

  enters yeah the market really do anything i mean they had to intercede [TS]

  ages and they didn't really do anything they had plenty of time to sell the [TS]

  iPhone to leave let's just say that you know whatever that that's neither here [TS]

  nor there but they kept chipping something that looked like windows [TS]

  ninety five years they didn't then never really bothered rethinking the problem [TS]

  they just I think they just an eventually it's gonna get you know [TS]

  eventually this is going to be a big thing and since we're already there will [TS]

  be the ones who reap the benefit to your points almost a matured someone say [TS]

  they're just like why are you buying iPhones we have not going to give you a [TS]

  compelling reason to do it but you should be worried about that I i really [TS]

  a I could not be more bullish on Tim Cook's leadership and i think is doing a [TS]

  great job I think he knows his wheelhouse and sticks to it and and and [TS]

  leaves the other stuff that's out of his wheelhouse to people who are experts [TS]

  will everything receiver is definitely closer collaboration between the teams [TS]

  between the year two two operating system groups way more opportunities for [TS]

  third-party developers than we've ever had on the platform before speaking with [TS]

  friends in the company everybody's happy and excited everybody seemed happy and [TS]

  excited on stage even try to do some nice stuff in the App Store which yes [TS]

  you know that Canada is going to change much but they tried [TS]

  there is almost nothing negative coming out of this distance WWDC yeah it's a [TS]

  good way to put it very very hard to find anything other than details [TS]

  little complaint about swift and but pretty much everything they announced it [TS]

  was all good all-around for everyone well accepted that the show people well [TS]

  yeah well I got a minor she liking but the deal that goes good that stank yeah [TS]

  so reveal its worth you know porn went out for revealed because it was really [TS]

  clever long story you know more about it than me but I would explain it as sort [TS]

  of like us [TS]

  WebKit inspector for Coco apps and in terms of like the you I could show your [TS]

  appt you know the layering like which controls are on top [TS]

  give you a three-dimensional look at the at the way that the controls are stacked [TS]

  on top of each others who have you school he was going to go behind one of [TS]

  the other hand yeah and if you have like a drawing bug where you're seeing [TS]

  something that you shouldn't be able to see or not seem something you should be [TS]

  able to see that 3d view can help you look down and you can see that button [TS]

  its and really call really bad very fancy stuff and it's like the same thing [TS]

  is now built in mexico ya and and more he can do more with a toxic is built in [TS]

  but it's it's pretty much a good idea you know it kinda deserves to be part of [TS]

  Xcode IDE and double-edged sword rain especially if you're doing developer [TS]

  tools [TS]

  yes it's you know did you ever listen to the episode of rent increases the record [TS]

  with john chafee yes I did so print Simmons in [TS]

  and your colleagues and assault Chris Paris have a podcast the record where [TS]

  they're talking to you know long-standing members of the IndyMac [TS]

  development mean john chafee busy Mac now the great busy how and they're doing [TS]

  what's the new one is coming out soon busy contacts and he talked about when [TS]

  he was expenses which used to make nuclear [TS]

  yeah and they made plugins for a quick express in Photoshop and I remember when [TS]

  I was doing like practically or even not even like literally full-time work doing [TS]

  graphic design layout and QuarkXPress there were some expenses plugins that [TS]

  were essential that I don't use that word lightly used once you had them you [TS]

  just could not go back but his you know he said like we knew that the better our [TS]

  best extensions that will be in court we're gonna see that and they're going [TS]

  to see what you know everybody's using it with that should be part of Photoshop [TS]

  or that should be part of course Express and so is he said it was like oh you [TS]

  know you had to stay ahead of them because we needed hit but once we had a [TS]

  hit we knew that it was very likely gonna be rolled into the next version [TS]

  and that we weren't gonna get a heads up about it but yeah there was a good show [TS]

  good interview yeah that's especially insightful point is it's kind of funny [TS]

  is once you see the numbers by kind of certain plugin you did you know and and [TS]

  I hate to say it but the same is true for developer tools [TS]

  you know it's been evident ever since [TS]

  again go back to the next reunification that Apple is very very serious about [TS]

  providing the definitive developer tool you know for their platform [TS]

  definitely like when they showed off Xcode for the first time very clear [TS]

  indication it could worry was gonna be presented on cut it but yeah that they [TS]

  were going to do it you know they sought is a strategic of strategic importance [TS]

  to get all the first party and if I mean next at the objective well cocoa [TS]

  frameworks and the developer tools particularly Interface Builder were [TS]

  pretty much the crown jewels text and they have taken that sort of kept as [TS]

  much as I complain professional but whatever going on they they do take it [TS]

  very seriously I i say this is a guy who still uses on daily basis BBS loves [TS]

  BBEdit and wants to continue to thrive but there used to be like in the [TS]

  CodeWarrior days really solid support for external editors and that you could [TS]

  use bbm editor for CodeWarrior development and you miss a few things [TS]

  but you'd gain things and you know the things that are in BBEdit there weren't [TS]

  in their editor and Xcode at does it still support and i'm looking now at one [TS]

  point it did but I did for a long time but not in a robust [TS]

  whenever you'd files if you could get if you can get the ear of somebody on the [TS]

  team or follow radar get a response and you'd ask for better external auditor [TS]

  support because I want to use BB ended and the answer would be what would you [TS]

  what features in BBEdit to do you want to add which is sort of not what you [TS]

  wanna hear if you're working it or even if you're a user who wants bare-bones to [TS]

  thrive so that you still have you know it does well but you know I understand [TS]

  why I do understand why if there is a good features like that that they want [TS]

  them in these free developer tools that all developers can happen take advantage [TS]

  of it not have to to do that [TS]

  yeah but it does hurt and you know it's off to the review people yeah I just get [TS]

  up and start using default and pretty much everything on the time I don't like [TS]

  it used to be that it changes colors yeah I've given up just when I go to [TS]

  somebody else's smack the odds are also given up when you do give up like that [TS]

  and it's you know when you get a new computer it advances to hear you spend [TS]

  three days when I got a new getting everything set up the rwandan just log [TS]

  in with three things install Dropbox and speed up the most little bit and I make [TS]

  the keyboard so that it's not place your speed the keyword to be that slow which [TS]

  doesn't matter that much anymore [TS]

  kind of nervous because half the time you know if you hit like the Ikki it [TS]

  gives you the Iowa style pop up three years of French things they put a ring [TS]

  yeah but for me it's normally like it just takes on the go ahead and I just [TS]

  delete it takes a half if you want to add a bunch of returned but I can see [TS]

  had to leave yeah I definitely change some of those and oh yeah so I was [TS]

  joking lacks [TS]

  told marca Canon she likes us a little bit and I was joking last week saying [TS]

  that I would rather have it just be everywhere in this system because it's a [TS]

  cool feature and it is a cool feature and guess what it's everywhere in the [TS]

  system turns out the market the one democrat male is an extension I knew I [TS]

  figured that out I didn't figure be better if you figure that out I thought [TS]

  I did notice but that's cool that's really cool so any app now you can just [TS]

  get well soon text in mail and so any text you on the system you can edit an [TS]

  image in a market economy down its market or any other image editing [TS]

  capable extension on the system and loved it if I always loved the idea of [TS]

  services that came from next to get super underused but hopefully with this [TS]

  new extensions mechanism that's going to breathe new life into that idea yeah [TS]

  it's a good you know and and [TS]

  but you're right and it is more elegant [TS]

  it's more elegant to know that it to feature that implemented on the new [TS]

  extension mechanism in not hardcoded into male [TS]

  not that the mail . app team went in and made this feature it's exactly right [TS]

  that it's the second coming of services because services the things you see in [TS]

  the application name and good and the services you see this or you may put it [TS]

  in the control the right click menu a couple years ago [TS]

  powerful are using all the time but largely unchanged from the next days so [TS]

  much so yeah in fact I don't think you know maybe it changed since then taken [TS]

  up you know what type of data I'll take text I'll take files I only want here [TS]

  I'm a service I only one images it's an image available otherwise now and then [TS]

  you return the same you return something here works it works basically you you [TS]

  have an appt do you offer to provide a service in your in your your appt until [TS]

  the appeal is and what happens when you get fired up so when the user selects [TS]

  something and then choose your service it copies it under special cut a piece [TS]

  for rent in your app when you like he just look at a passport and do something [TS]

  with it and put it back on the passport and say that you done and the other did [TS]

  you have to send it to you get the changes it's the most simple system you [TS]

  getting her right leg and was gonna put on the paper you don't blow away the one [TS]

  that did the use of 12 got it simple and elegant but its simplicity and elegance [TS]

  almost shows that it dates from 1989 or 1990 says is needed it had to be so [TS]

  lightweight because there wasn't all that much disk space or memory or CPU [TS]

  time is very very thin [TS]

  you know their elegant and powerful but there's 10 [TS]

  whereas this new extension system is in nineteen ninety or ninety one it would [TS]

  have been way too heavy you would have been too much to CPU intensive [TS]

  takes too much memory it does bring back the the the heady days of nineties sort [TS]

  of open dark stuff yeah exactly I've thought the same thing that you know how [TS]

  do I have to keep going between different apps if I just want to take [TS]

  advantage of this abstain right here like i just want to tweet this here is [TS]

  the URL I just want to tweet it out why do I have to copy and paste it and then [TS]

  switch to another Twitter app and then hit command and and open a tweet and do [TS]

  this thing and then switch back to go to where I was exactly that it's sort of [TS]

  like that idea of open docx where you just here just go to share it Twitter [TS]

  and a little view will open right here where you want but you know with this [TS]

  new safety thing where it's not actually injecting any code into your process a [TS]

  lot of problems with the cockpit well and open problems I think conceptually [TS]

  they lost I think they lost the wheel by basing it on documents read that the [TS]

  fundamental thing was a document instead of a nap well I think that they got [TS]

  caught up with what people were doing with computers in the nineties where [TS]

  everybody was making documents you know its new Excel files in new Word [TS]

  documents and clarence works documents and everybody was doing documents and [TS]

  emailing documents and so they thought well why don't we make documents the [TS]

  first class so it only made sense in the nineties I think I think long-term the [TS]

  app is the fundamental metaphor metaphor in the system is great and necessarily [TS]

  think it's like I so weak that let me back up that is inarguably true in our [TS]

  timeline [TS]

  I think of computers have started with with documents being the first class [TS]

  item from day one you always working in documents filed in the command prompt on [TS]

  you happened to you we invented program you had some kind of worksheet did as [TS]

  you type stuff what happened to the worksheet [TS]

  I think I think he can grow an interesting computer documents however [TS]

  nobody is nobody's going to put the genie back in the bottle and nobody had [TS]

  pulled it off but it is that you know and I am about a job this back when I [TS]

  was thought I was gonna be a programmer college internship I got my third one is [TS]

  it Windows software developer hear that did project management so I had to read [TS]

  the open duck's back because they wanted to know if they should do it and they [TS]

  were already gonna do object and I had to read the open duck's back and [TS]

  actually like try to understand and jump out of it was so hard to get your head [TS]

  around it whereas you know even as an outsider you know sitting there in Xcode [TS]

  writing code it's like I can watch the extensions in a WBC sessions and read [TS]

  the high levels dioxin I get it exactly you know I just put it in little bundle [TS]

  and a little rectangle open up and you're drawing in that wreck traffic [TS]

  that Institute editing is is brilliant and helped alot of ppl adopted it really [TS]

  well and the other thing too I think see I think it's great because I think it's [TS]

  a very good conceptual model for developers it's really really easy it's [TS]

  almost like why not do it sort of thing you can you know you're working on a big [TS]

  complicated app you can take a break on a little sharing extension a nice little [TS]

  side project like the way Martin Scorsese always likes to after he [TS]

  directs a major motion picture he often afterwards directs like a commercial [TS]

  often for like companies in Europe and stuff like that [TS]

  because it's like a nice break from a three hour you know willful Wall Street [TS]

  the Dow just wanted to a 30 second yeah but I also think it's gonna be huge for [TS]

  users because there's so much more exposed I really hope so I don't know [TS]

  what the percentage of Mac users have ever used the Services menu item is but [TS]

  I'll bet it even what's a regular basis whereas that sharing button which they [TS]

  know from there I found i think thats I think they're already using it and I [TS]

  think that they can do more I think they it's really nicely exposed yet hopefully [TS]

  takes us through i think is going to be other than that it's a terrific and as [TS]

  there's equal exposure on iOS like you can have photo editing extensions and I [TS]

  West which i think is gonna be huge [TS]

  yeah I think so too like the first light first person to Gotham filters gonna get [TS]

  body immediately but Pinterest is the easiest acquisition billion dollar pay [TS]

  outrageous just put it put it right now Michael camera I gotta go I gotta get [TS]

  their cool guy English you guys can find guy on the twitters at GTE three [TS]

  spacious have left text you only have to use [TS]

  remember I registered that guy English for you did and I know why did not post [TS]

  a single now I think it got to the passwords I think it took it over it and [TS]

  so did that at the chief strategy to him and handed it over to the friend that i [TS]

  kicking bear dot com you write once in a while but then the big thing is [TS]

  debug with you and Rene Ritchie yeah you know that there may enjoy debug if only [TS]

  because members and guests we're all of us are enjoying an incredible blossoming [TS]

  cornered podcasts you know but no not just because you're my guest on the show [TS]

  is really been one of my favorite especially recently you guys you're [TS]

  killin it thanks man I normally at damir from that kind of stuff but our guests [TS]

  we've got some guests yeah that's you can just put it on the gas and be proud [TS]

  of it anyway what's the best way to find it it's over I'm more debug [TS]

  just tried to match that guy can't get it to ya gotta step it up your guests [TS]