The Talk Show

35: Bozos and BlackBerrys


00:00:00   erica Ogg welcome to the talk-show thank you glad to be here so I don't know that [TS]

00:00:05   there's a lot of big news this week although it may be that Kevin Lynch [TS]

00:00:08   thing is but there's a lot of little news this week and one that just came [TS]

00:00:12   out today and I'm to me this is fascinating it is the story that Eric [TS]

00:00:16   Schmidt chairman and former CEO of Google still uses a blackberry that that [TS]

00:00:22   is somewhat surprising did you see this [TS]

00:00:25   yeah I did see it was yesterday and this morning I think so yeah and it's not [TS]

00:00:30   like a rumors I like somebody snapped a picture of him and it looked like he was [TS]

00:00:33   using a blackberry was like on stage at some conference and somebody was like [TS]

00:00:36   what role do you think I great right now I'm sure to follow up question should [TS]

00:00:41   have been an Android phone [TS]

00:00:44   well obviously that's what you would think is to be a team player you would [TS]

00:00:48   think the chairman of Google would use some sort of Android phone probably you [TS]

00:00:52   would think probably a nexus i mean Nexus 4 yeah I mean you think he'd be [TS]

00:00:57   carrying you know the best that his company has to offer and to me it so to [TS]

00:01:03   me there's a twofold intrigue here is one he's not using the company's phone [TS]

00:01:08   which is you know it's not like it's brand new it's not like it's the year [TS]

00:01:11   one of Android and he still needs XYZ from blackberry because it's an [TS]

00:01:15   established platform which is semi kind of understandable it's you know the [TS]

00:01:21   first hundred times cannot make 2008 it's it's like you're five and the [TS]

00:01:25   second thing is blackberry really like I would almost be in fact I would be I [TS]

00:01:31   wouldn't I don't know that I would make fun of them or maybe I'd make fun of me [TS]

00:01:34   a lot less if he was using sand I know I mean I would think I mean if he wasn't [TS]

00:01:40   using Android I would automatically think that he was using an iPhone [TS]

00:01:43   because you just would think that in today's age you would want features that [TS]

00:01:49   the old blackberries died and I presume that the one day I don't know I presume [TS]

00:01:53   it's not the brand new z10 modern blackberry we're talking about the old [TS]

00:01:58   one that's just bbm messages and phone calls [TS]

00:02:01   yeah it's hard to believe that most people they could have the excuse right [TS]

00:02:05   is like oh it's with the aidid guys at my company make me use [TS]

00:02:09   but that argument that are not just doesn't seem like that would stand up [TS]

00:02:12   for him well and because everybody knows the people that Google read everybody I [TS]

00:02:19   know what Google uses either Android or and I of course because they want to be [TS]

00:02:22   on the web all the time and they want to be using apps right and it just bring [TS]

00:02:29   mine and I'm gonna keep moving back to this is is you know is this being fair [TS]

00:02:34   is this what I would do if it where is this what we would say if it was [TS]

00:02:37   somebody an apple or something like that and so I'll give an example of that and [TS]

00:02:41   it's widely known that when Apple acquired next and the next executive [TS]

00:02:48   team sort of person took over Apple in 1997 that at least for most of ninety [TS]

00:02:55   seven I'm not sure when he switched but at least from us 297 even though he was [TS]

00:02:59   dead [TS]

00:02:59   interim CEO or even before he was interim CEO is still very very [TS]

00:03:04   influential at Apple because he'd come back Steve Jobs didn't use a PowerBook [TS]

00:03:08   he used like I think it was a ThinkPad running next really yet another but that [TS]

00:03:16   makes some amount of sense though where it's not necessary okay so he wasn't [TS]

00:03:20   quite being a team player but I think the gist of the situation was hey are [TS]

00:03:26   you know are being Apple are OS has really fallen behind technically we need [TS]

00:03:35   something new and new next generation thing so in a sense he was using [TS]

00:03:39   something that was more like what Apple's future was about then using a [TS]

00:03:43   PowerBook [TS]

00:03:45   it wasn't necessarily politically problematic that he was using a ThinkPad [TS]

00:03:49   running open so right and you can you can kind of see it like you probably [TS]

00:03:54   design wise he probably gravitated towards something like to think that was [TS]

00:03:59   really good for what he needed to do with the computer at the time right and [TS]

00:04:05   I saw I would say would be more like the equivalent of an executive at Google [TS]

00:04:09   we're using a blackberry in 2008 right that Android was new we've only just [TS]

00:04:15   come out with the first one it doesn't do everything we need yet [TS]

00:04:18   but we're working hard to make sure that it's going to be better than this this [TS]

00:04:23   old thing that I like I don't think it's the same thing yeah I agree it's that's [TS]

00:04:31   mysterious I would really love to hear his explanation for that it had and i [TS]

00:04:41   cant stop laughing like I wonder and wonder how many Google services use [TS]

00:04:46   those black crimes your Google search works is fine but I wonder how much else [TS]

00:04:51   I'm a guess you can get your email but that's kind of the point the BlackBerry [TS]

00:04:54   right right so the big news of the week the Big Apple news of the week is that [TS]

00:05:01   Apple has hired from Adobe former Derby CTL Kevin Lynch right and you think this [TS]

00:05:09   is a terrible idea well I wouldn't go so far as to say that I guess I should tone [TS]

00:05:15   down my posts ever so slightly I get anything I maybe I miss the word might [TS]

00:05:19   and the headline where I had exhibit a in the case that Kevin Lynch is a bozo [TS]

00:05:25   about higher I should have maybe said might be a bozo about higher because I [TS]

00:05:29   don't know I mean maybe the guys gonna turn out and do a fantastic job whatever [TS]

00:05:35   hard to do but the truth is for the last I don't know five years everything that [TS]

00:05:40   I've read and followed about chemical engineer has been to me backwards [TS]

00:05:47   thinking it's not just the flash thing either but the flash thing has a major [TS]

00:05:52   part of it and I haven't seen much that was that was really in his favor [TS]

00:05:58   yeah I mean I've been covering Apple and I haven't paid as much attention to like [TS]

00:06:02   what he's been doing but I guess from what I have seen like when his when he [TS]

00:06:07   has said stuff about Apple about you know the whole flash fate I guess I look [TS]

00:06:13   back on it just seems like a company guy right like that's his job right to do is [TS]

00:06:19   get Adobe [TS]

00:06:20   and to promote their technologies and I wonder like what he should have done and [TS]

00:06:30   that is absolutely and I'm you know I've gotten as much feedback about those few [TS]

00:06:34   short post I wrote about him as anything i've written recently and you know both [TS]

00:06:38   pro and con I got an awful lot like you know good for you or you know just [TS]

00:06:42   speaking her mind I'm this guy who's been saying things about fashion and [TS]

00:06:46   mobile OS's for a few years to the other side [TS]

00:06:50   heyy you jump in on these guys know what do you expect him to do he's gotta [TS]

00:06:54   follow the company's line and you know [TS]

00:06:56   dobie them and flash and doing their best to try to make it relevant on [TS]

00:07:00   mobile and and my take on that is that he wasn't just an employee his title [TS]

00:07:05   wasn't like / evangelist he wasn't good product manager of flash in which case I [TS]

00:07:11   could totally by the the argument he was just telling the company lied to me and [TS]

00:07:17   I think this is sort of what I wrote is that as the CTO of Adobe he was the guy [TS]

00:07:21   painting the company and I just can't help but think that he should have known [TS]

00:07:27   better [TS]

00:07:30   yeah I mean it's obviously it's hard to speculate that we don't know what the [TS]

00:07:33   internal dynamics were at the time you know what how much control you how to [TS]

00:07:40   read that or how much employees he could have had kids I mean flashes / rate like [TS]

00:07:45   he couldn't [TS]

00:07:46   what if you were the one to be like alright actually Steve's rate could he [TS]

00:07:51   say that could be like quietly start to say that inside but not publicly right [TS]

00:07:57   and that is why I really do hope that it was clear I magnin write extensively [TS]

00:08:01   about it but I hope that whatever it was short and sweet and made this point [TS]

00:08:04   which is that what he said publicly circa 2007 when the iPhone was first [TS]

00:08:09   announced the first one came out without flash in 2008 when it did really sort of [TS]

00:08:15   started with the 3G sorted to become a phenomenon like really started to sell [TS]

00:08:19   rather startling numbers is one thing because you could say look this is early [TS]

00:08:25   clearly Apple is sort of define the next generation of mobile technology but [TS]

00:08:30   there's obviously you know everybody else is going to follow [TS]

00:08:32   let's see how it shakes out maybe flash can be a part of that I whenever he said [TS]

00:08:38   back then i think is fine weather whatever he believed it out but I think [TS]

00:08:41   behind the scenes though it should have been a wake-up call and I think that [TS]

00:08:45   they should have realized that no way was Apple gonna get on board with this [TS]

00:08:47   that this was a browser and I less was not gonna run ever and that they needed [TS]

00:08:55   to work on what's next so that Adobe can be relevant to creative professionals [TS]

00:09:00   creating content for these devices you know I don't know what what you want to [TS]

00:09:06   say is that like an epic intact but three years is a long time I think in [TS]

00:09:13   technology usually it's like if you go back three years you can find all sorts [TS]

00:09:16   of stuff that I can't believe that we had back then and so like the three [TS]

00:09:20   years between the iPhone and the first iPad to me that's when do we should have [TS]

00:09:26   at least behind the scenes not necessarily publicly but behind the [TS]

00:09:29   scenes should have been working on something that was going to work on [TS]

00:09:35   mobile devices that don't have Flash Player installed and web browser and [TS]

00:09:39   they did when I had came out in 2010 it was the same song and dance all over [TS]

00:09:43   again so is your is your concern but you know the Apple has taken a guide that [TS]

00:09:51   that might come in and just like stick to one thing and not continue their [TS]

00:09:57   pattern of looking to the next things getting to the puck is going like all [TS]

00:10:01   about that would sort of a little bit and you know I think that you know I [TS]

00:10:09   said there's a couple of times and and I think Steve Jobs you know Tim Cook said [TS]

00:10:13   this explicit I think it was a 2d conference last year but that Steve Jobs [TS]

00:10:16   changed his mind all the time that the way that he accumulated a great track [TS]

00:10:21   record of foresight and being right and and creating these innovative products [TS]

00:10:26   over the course of decades was not by being right every single time he made a [TS]

00:10:31   decision every step of the way it was by being right a lot of the time and then [TS]

00:10:36   the time he was wrong [TS]

00:10:37   revisiting and saying okay that was wrong let's do it the other way [TS]

00:10:43   was very much came through in the biography to rate is he wasn't afraid [TS]

00:10:48   someone proved he wasn't afraid to say ok you're right let's do that and so I [TS]

00:10:55   linked to his name Eric somebody at forbes who had a piece done on bozos [TS]

00:11:02   what is it what I mean by and that's a word that Steve Jobs is the line that [TS]

00:11:06   did you know that he thought john sculley wound up being a bozo and you [TS]

00:11:11   know used the word lie that's why I chose that word and his definition of [TS]

00:11:16   bozo loosely was someone who is smart but is not as smart as he thinks he is [TS]

00:11:21   and gets defensive about it and starts rationalizing every decision they've [TS]

00:11:27   already made to sort of make it seem as though they're always right right so I [TS]

00:11:32   definitely there's no doubt 0 doubt in my mind that Kevin Lynch's a very smart [TS]

00:11:36   man I mean you can't get you can't get that high Adobe without being smart and [TS]

00:11:40   I'm sure that Apple would not hard to see one of those guys who is not as [TS]

00:11:45   smart as he thinks he is and latches onto an idea doesn't like 0 likes a [TS]

00:11:49   flash players gonna be a relevant technology and mobile operating systems [TS]

00:11:54   right I find it interesting I mean I guess this is a point [TS]

00:11:59   potentially in favor of maybe have him having little humility is he's going [TS]

00:12:03   from Oct 02 VP [TS]

00:12:07   I mean like I think that says something about what he thinks he's capable of [TS]

00:12:13   what he can offer Apple yeah that is a very good point because at Apple Apple [TS]

00:12:19   doesn't really have the c-level executives at most companies do I think [TS]

00:12:23   they only have to right now thats Tim Cook CEO and Peter Oppenheimer CFO who I [TS]

00:12:30   think they're both like legally obligated by the SEC to have people with [TS]

00:12:34   those titles like you have to have a CFO I believe other than that there are no [TS]

00:12:39   other there's no chief white bike officer of anything like obviously when [TS]

00:12:45   when cook stepped up there is no COO anymore right and that's interesting to [TS]

00:12:51   them didn't replace him as CEO there is a senior vice president of operations [TS]

00:12:54   but he didn't get the COO title you know and Phil Schiller is not chief marketing [TS]

00:13:00   officer he's you know senior vice versa senior vice president is as high as you [TS]

00:13:04   can go up or other than to BC and he's not a senior vice president I did their [TS]

00:13:10   executives page where they show that executive leadership of the company only [TS]

00:13:14   list the senior vice presidents it doesn't like so Kevin Lynch won't be [TS]

00:13:18   listed there which is interesting because it's definitely a couple 0 CT 0 [TS]

00:13:23   right but it's interesting I was talking with somebody I forget who on Twitter [TS]

00:13:30   and they pointed out that at this point Apple is so much bigger than it does it [TS]

00:13:35   even being quote unquote a mere vice president at a pool actually might be a [TS]

00:13:41   bigger deal than being CTO of Adobe which is kind of hard for me to wrap my [TS]

00:13:45   head around because I've been following both of these companies for so long I [TS]

00:13:49   remember when Adobe was bigger than Apple at least you know bite stock [TS]

00:13:53   prices stuff like that so it's kind of funny for me to think about it that way [TS]

00:13:58   like I still kind of see adobe is one of Apple's peers but they really really [TS]

00:14:02   aren't any well I'm gonna talk about your company right there are few [TS]

00:14:07   companies that are apples pears no more but it's weird it's still kind of hard [TS]

00:14:14   for me to get my head around that year [TS]

00:14:16   like when I think about Microsoft and I still think of Microsoft instantly I [TS]

00:14:21   think of them as being a much bigger almost bullying company that Apple but [TS]

00:14:25   they're not they're smaller by any measure so here's a question what do you [TS]

00:14:34   think Kevin Lynch is going to be doing it up that's what i was gonna ask you I [TS]

00:14:40   don't know I feel like that's the big mystery well I mean that he was working [TS]

00:14:45   on cloud stuff so I think that would be interesting obviously that's an area [TS]

00:14:50   that Apple needs you know some help with an area that's like extreme focus for [TS]

00:14:57   them so I don't know I am really curious like how can I like how it went down and [TS]

00:15:06   why they hired him like they hire him because he realized he wasn't gonna go [TS]

00:15:09   any further and Adobe and he was like hey and now available or do they go [TS]

00:15:14   after him and that I think that's an interesting distinction just because [TS]

00:15:19   they need someone to fill position and they didn't hire they didn't promote [TS]

00:15:23   from within or they had to go outside [TS]

00:15:27   that's that's what I'm I think that would determine more the answer to my [TS]

00:15:30   question there's a couple of mysteries about how many apples always mysteries [TS]

00:15:35   because they're never going to really open up but some of the questions I have [TS]

00:15:40   is why is he in this technology Bob Mansfield technology division which you [TS]

00:15:46   know on paper they say it's about semiconductors and wireless technology [TS]

00:15:49   but I think it's more that Bob Mansfield Technology Group is sort of Apple's [TS]

00:15:57   equivalent of research and development maybe like their equivalent of Google [TS]

00:16:00   acts where it's like next-generation technology period because one of the [TS]

00:16:05   reasons I think that and I think they gave it this really plain description of [TS]

00:16:08   wireless and semiconductors because anything that Apple might possibly be [TS]

00:16:12   working on is going to involve semiconductors and wireless technology [TS]

00:16:17   like there is no possible taking device that they're making it doesn't involve [TS]

00:16:20   those things [TS]

00:16:21   yeah it's actually kind of funny when you think about it that way right i mean [TS]

00:16:25   these are the guys shrinking the systems on a chip these are the guys getting [TS]

00:16:28   wireless stuff that uses less power and has the most bandwidth as possible [TS]

00:16:32   etcetera but that's anything up on my right and didn't when when they hired [TS]

00:16:36   Mansfield backer whenever they get new position is not what they said that he [TS]

00:16:42   would be working on movie apple into new areas I remember I don't have liked the [TS]

00:16:47   show that there was there was a hint of it there was a hint of it in that PR [TS]

00:16:52   that it was going to be a sort of like apple just doesn't call much R&D they [TS]

00:16:57   really don't like and so some people make a stink about it like I know are [TS]

00:17:01   good mutual friend Dan Lyons is often somehow gloated over the fact that [TS]

00:17:06   Apple's R&D expenditures as you know divided by their revenue is really small [TS]

00:17:12   compared to most of their peer companies but I think that simply because Apple [TS]

00:17:16   doesn't call much of what they do R&D itself is it yeah it really do think so [TS]

00:17:23   i think that they you know they don't really do much and they never do one [TS]

00:17:26   thing like steve Jobs was like allergic to was are indeed that's unrelated to [TS]

00:17:32   specific actual products that they might want to develop like they don't make [TS]

00:17:36   fantasy products just that aren't rich you know maybe twenty years and I will [TS]

00:17:40   be able to make this simple just play around with ourselves and make this [TS]

00:17:45   group that's not realistic in the next couple of years so I think the day [TS]

00:17:50   they're always working on real projects and I think that what most companies [TS]

00:17:53   will call Rd they just expenses product about what you would think so he's [TS]

00:18:02   reporting to Bob Mansfield who does something we don't really nobody's [TS]

00:18:05   really sure what he does but he's certainly very well-regarded within the [TS]

00:18:08   company [TS]

00:18:09   Mansfield right but you would think that if it was about the cloud stuff and this [TS]

00:18:15   is because of dobie has recently I have what create the Creative Cloud and I [TS]

00:18:19   forget with the other ones called the Creative Cloud as I can get like a [TS]

00:18:22   subscription to Photoshop and Illustrator etc without getting a DVD [TS]

00:18:26   anymore I cannot take a monthly subscription forget their other cloud I [TS]

00:18:32   think it's the one with I don't know probably Adobe Acrobat Reader and stuff [TS]

00:18:36   like that and apparently that's gone very well that the people who subscribe [TS]

00:18:41   to the Creative Cloud pretty happy with it and so there's a lot of speculation [TS]

00:18:45   that maybe that's basically what Apple hired Lynch to do but if so when he [TS]

00:18:49   reported a DQ I would say yeah I mean I mean I guess it depends if he was [TS]

00:19:00   working on something more like infrastructure wise or something that it [TS]

00:19:08   would seem like technologies with the place to be but if it was more like [TS]

00:19:11   directly on the actual services then yeah he would make more sense and I [TS]

00:19:19   think it was John coach Caskey it all things the who you know said that early [TS]

00:19:25   on he you know had somebody at Apple confirmed to him that his title will be [TS]

00:19:29   VP of technology new report about Mansfield said that his duties will be [TS]

00:19:33   coordinating efforts between hardware and software teams across the company [TS]

00:19:38   which again is sort of like what what what part of what Apple does isn't about [TS]

00:19:44   coordinating hardware software teams across the company like that so vague [TS]

00:19:48   that it almost doesn't mean anything [TS]

00:19:51   yes it's sort of classic Apple classically sort of generic when they [TS]

00:19:55   have to make a statement on something [TS]

00:19:56   yeah it sounds like it makes sense then you really think about it you realize [TS]

00:20:01   that could be almost a mile s could be mad could be both could be iCloud and [TS]

00:20:05   that's also their theme lately arrayed like ever since the reorg is getting [TS]

00:20:10   things to work together more closely so fewer fiefdom than even they had before [TS]

00:20:17   and had relatively few theft of us by the standards of most big company the [TS]

00:20:26   other thing I've heard and i've heard from my friends at Adobe and the friends [TS]

00:20:30   I've spoken to Italy maybe they've colored my commentary on this is [TS]

00:20:34   certainly but [TS]

00:20:35   they seem to the general consensus of the people I know it is good reasons [TS]

00:20:40   really yeah what and why that internally the consensus from the people I've [TS]

00:20:48   spoken to Adobe's that Lynch really was a true believer in flash on mobile that [TS]

00:20:52   he wasn't just telling the company line that he really really thought that flash [TS]

00:20:57   was gonna pull this out and still be relevant long-term going into the future [TS]

00:21:01   and like for example one of my friends cited as like a landmark in this was [TS]

00:21:08   when version 4.1 of Android last summer which i think came out like July but it [TS]

00:21:17   was somewhere in the 4.0 4.0 or 4.1 of Android where Google is like you know [TS]

00:21:21   what we're no longer going to include flash player in the built-in browser in [TS]

00:21:27   the system and it's not gonna talk and work anymore like they've sort of you [TS]

00:21:31   know the sort of threw in the towel in that which i think should have been I [TS]

00:21:37   think everybody else so that is the final nail in the coffin right that that [TS]

00:21:41   flashes Flash Player is not going to be relevant mobile going forward I thought [TS]

00:21:46   but apparently inside Adobe he still thought wow now even Google is screwing [TS]

00:21:51   this up we're still gonna do this but even even Google isn't smart enough to [TS]

00:21:55   see how how important flash players gonna be on mobile right he was like you [TS]

00:22:04   know let's move on right and that dog i mean friends I have definitely the lower [TS]

00:22:09   level they're you know they're they're enlisted men not officers to to use the [TS]

00:22:15   military analogy but you know that they just don't like it he was holding back [TS]

00:22:19   the company from doing more relevant work on mobile by insisting that flash [TS]

00:22:23   player was going to be part of the company's mobile efforts even like last [TS]

00:22:28   summer that than that yeah that would be concerning it was coming for him and [TS]

00:22:35   like using the phrase like holding them back like that's that's like a show on [TS]

00:22:41   the flip side though and i'll settle on the optimistic side that hey don't be [TS]

00:22:45   worried there's two things I've heard wine and this I heard from [TS]

00:22:48   first day I heard this from three friends out in all three said more or [TS]

00:22:52   less the same thing which is I don't know what's the deal I don't know what [TS]

00:22:57   the deal is with lunch in particular but Bob Mansfield suffers no fools if this [TS]

00:23:03   guy is a bozo he'll be out of here there's no doubt that Mansfield's gonna [TS]

00:23:08   do you know if he reports to Mansfield and he's he's not doing great work is [TS]

00:23:12   going to be gone thank you all very different three different ppl popped up [TS]

00:23:16   with that and I believe it but I think if that happens it's gonna be [TS]

00:23:20   embarrassing trouble I kind of feel and especially i sort of thing for Tim Cook [TS]

00:23:24   because I feel like the John Browett thing is it real [TS]

00:23:28   has a lot of people you know concern yeah I was just gonna say if you like [TS]

00:23:32   quicker hook then then cooked on browser that's going to be yeah that'll be very [TS]

00:23:40   embarrassing and who knows maybe you know we don't know maybe it was entirely [TS]

00:23:44   Bob Mansfield call Bob you hire you on and Bob Mansfield is single-handedly [TS]

00:23:50   said I'm this is the guy but it's not going to be read that way if if he did [TS]

00:23:55   he doesn't work out [TS]

00:23:57   yeah yeah that's going to undermine confidence in Europe's ability to hire [TS]

00:24:02   obviously he has one strike against him and like it or not he's under more [TS]

00:24:10   pressure as the successor to Steve Jobs then even steve Jobs was under Jobs [TS]

00:24:16   hasn't been executive hires who who did jobs have that Papermaster Papermaster [TS]

00:24:21   and that was kinda hard to run Mac hardware or all hardware I forget it was [TS]

00:24:29   it was all hardware he was one from the Czech guy from IBM yeah and he's the guy [TS]

00:24:36   who got there and he kind of took the axe for the antennagate bright and early [TS]

00:24:41   seemingly certainly looked like a sort of shooed him away after that so there [TS]

00:24:48   was also Tim butcher now this is going back almost a decade but temperature [TS]

00:24:55   where I think it was in charge of Mac hardware but yeah he says here's here's [TS]

00:25:00   a report from 2005 in [TS]

00:25:01   neck Observer Mr Butcher was the head of Macintosh hardware engineering for Apple [TS]

00:25:05   and oversaw the development of the recently introduced Mac Mini he joined [TS]

00:25:10   Apple in 2007 as vice president of macintosh system development was [TS]

00:25:14   promoted to senior vice president of Macintosh hardware engineering in May [TS]

00:25:17   2004 and so to hear the story is that the lawsuit he event ended up after he [TS]

00:25:24   got fired he filed a lawsuit against Apple alleges that Apple CEO and COO Tim [TS]

00:25:30   Cook Apple's executive vice president he was executive he wasn't CEO executive [TS]

00:25:35   vice president of worldwide sales and operations they told Mr Butcher on two [TS]

00:25:39   separate occasions that he had not failed in his work but never gave [TS]

00:25:43   specific reasons as to why they wanted to leave the company you're not a [TS]

00:25:46   failure Mr Jobs reportedly told Mr Butcher early November even God couldn't [TS]

00:25:50   do have done both of the jobs I think that was because he was doing Mac [TS]

00:25:54   hardware like iPod hardware two days later according to the lawsuit Mr Jobs [TS]

00:25:59   told him people sometimes think you are manic-depressive I'm not sure what I'm [TS]

00:26:03   gonna do but I think I'm gonna have to ask you to leave the company anyway that [TS]

00:26:08   was a high-level executive obviously did not pan out [TS]

00:26:13   Papermaster was probably a little bit more damning cause he was I don't even [TS]

00:26:17   know he was there for a year [TS]

00:26:18   one-member the whole lawsuit they had like fight IBM on that but what you call [TS]

00:26:24   it doesn't say company on the non-compete and just looked ugly awful [TS]

00:26:33   right and it's sort of like cats and a certain point sometimes when you hire [TS]

00:26:38   executives right away from another company it's almost like a sports trade [TS]

00:26:42   we've got a comp you know compensate them somehow you just write him a check [TS]

00:26:46   for someone you know you negotiate something that I got it to pay like a [TS]

00:26:50   waiver fear something if they have a non-compete I think I am NOT a lawyer in [TS]

00:26:57   this tough course me but I know california has a really really liberal [TS]

00:27:00   non-compete clause meaning that there there in favor of employees and [TS]

00:27:04   employees are are almost unrestricted by non competes in California right you [TS]

00:27:09   can't really there [TS]

00:27:10   r their employee favorable laws not employer favorables but I think the [TS]

00:27:16   problem of paper masters he was coming from IBM in New York where they do and [TS]

00:27:20   there is you know that was the question whereas I think like with Kevin Lynch [TS]

00:27:24   with two california companies Adobe and Apple it's no fair game [TS]

00:27:28   yeah I mean I didn't even mention that now can I don't and I think especially [TS]

00:27:36   with the statement that Adobe made where they're like yeah he's gone he's going [TS]

00:27:40   to be like I don't know I don't expect their cause I think it's I think again I [TS]

00:27:50   could be wrong [TS]

00:27:50   watch this afternoon 5 o'clock right it's gonna be like a lawsuit shows gonna [TS]

00:27:57   look stupid but I don't think that I but long story short I think if Kevin Lynch [TS]

00:28:03   doesn't work out and only last six seven months or something like that and that's [TS]

00:28:07   the same way but I'm Papermaster lasted nobody remembers Papermaster but [TS]

00:28:12   everybody's gonna remember this because Tim Cook is under so much more scrutiny [TS]

00:28:16   than Steve Jobs and east and the second factor like you said he's already got [TS]

00:28:21   one strike against him [TS]

00:28:22   John Browett yeah one other curious thing about this and you mentioned as to [TS]

00:28:30   why didn't they hire from within Apple most famously does a lot of their [TS]

00:28:34   promotions from with it that's why I wonder if it was like he came to them [TS]

00:28:40   like here looking for a way out shortly after you know my options are kinda [TS]

00:28:44   running out over there rather than them they went to him i dont no one other [TS]

00:28:52   story I heard and this is from one source and you know I can't verify I [TS]

00:28:58   don't know I just toss it out there is it possible you know somebody somebody [TS]

00:29:01   believes it somebody Thomas is that Apple wanted to hire him back they [TS]

00:29:10   weren't sure exactly what you would say round 2008 2009 but like when Steve Jobs [TS]

00:29:14   restored the company [TS]

00:29:16   and they wanted to hire Kevin Lynch then for something and he specifically turn [TS]

00:29:22   them down for the reason that he thought it would be poor form to leave Adobe for [TS]

00:29:27   Apple in particular while this there is this major point of contention that he [TS]

00:29:32   was sort of right in the center during the flood right you know that the [TS]

00:29:36   flashlight with his fight and he by as much as he would otherwise perhaps [TS]

00:29:40   entertaining option in like to do it that it would be disloyal maybe you know [TS]

00:29:48   something like that which if true is sort of commendable and speaks honestly [TS]

00:29:52   you know I would say speaks to his integrity but I you know is that true I [TS]

00:29:56   don't know that you know the story is the term for a while something I mean [TS]

00:30:02   looking more optimistic side if he's loyal and he's you know when he's in the [TS]

00:30:09   middle of something he's passionate about it those are good signs are good [TS]

00:30:12   qualities company I mean people change teams all the time [TS]

00:30:21   let me take a break here and thank our first sponsor our first sponsor is an [TS]

00:30:26   app for the iPad called basal just like the spice pas il peso is a recipe in [TS]

00:30:34   cooking apps for the iPad you can search all the world's the web's best cooking [TS]

00:30:40   sites and save right you can find recipes save them [TS]

00:30:43   favorite your own recipes you can add your own and it's a beautiful app and it [TS]

00:30:48   is designed specifically to be used while you're cooking it is meant to be [TS]

00:30:53   used you know have your iPad in your kitchen while you're using it and the [TS]

00:30:57   interface is is designed to accommodate that everything is sort of a Sunni maybe [TS]

00:31:02   only have one hand free maybe only one finger free really simple but beautiful [TS]

00:31:06   interface the ingredients in two directions are readable from a distance [TS]

00:31:10   assumption as you may not be right next to the iPad you you know you could be [TS]

00:31:13   across the kitchen promise to read it and had special tools like timers unit [TS]

00:31:20   conversion check list for the ingredients obvious stuff that really [TS]

00:31:25   about the practical applications of actually using [TS]

00:31:28   the app while you're making a meal it organizes recipes for you [TS]

00:31:34   recipes with ingredients makes it quick and really easy to set cassini all types [TS]

00:31:40   while you're saving so you can store your recipes by mail tape later so you [TS]

00:31:45   can do things like just search for breakfast recipes or just search for [TS]

00:31:50   Chinese recipes but it does a lot of that work for you by identifying [TS]

00:31:54   knowingly these recipes are so you don't have to sit there and at all this [TS]

00:31:58   mandated to your recipes to have a sort of like that a lot of it happens [TS]

00:32:02   automatically really great app very varies so if you want to find out what [TS]

00:32:07   you did you go to their website its basal dot com there's a dash between [TS]

00:32:12   baseball and at bas dash dot com or you could just go to the AppStore and search [TS]

00:32:20   for baseball to great out I think anybody is gonna want to take a look at [TS]

00:32:25   it thanks to him for sponsoring the show [TS]

00:32:27   here's another one did you see the thing only yesterday this ABC news story [TS]

00:32:37   survey that said that the iPhone is what it would do they say that it was no [TS]

00:32:44   longer as inspiring as other phones it's just a phone it just seemed like such a [TS]

00:32:49   phony metric of appeal and they just passed this long and so a reader it was [TS]

00:32:56   it wasn't my idea was a DAF reader who who just said hey if you google the [TS]

00:33:00   company who conducted this survey that part of an advertising agency and if you [TS]

00:33:04   go and see and Samsung you see that that Samsung's mean advertising in North [TS]

00:33:08   America so you know it's it's a survey conducted by Samsung's advertising [TS]

00:33:14   company that the BBC News just passed the law is packed with no mention of the [TS]

00:33:17   fact that the same status as Samsung's advertising agency and Mike I think [TS]

00:33:24   about two hours later they added a paragraph like three or four paragraphs [TS]

00:33:28   down there said that company is a subsidiary of whatever and they're hired [TS]

00:33:32   by companies like Samsung Google and Microsoft [TS]

00:33:39   came in by email Milagro ok great in no way out of value didn't look it up quite [TS]

00:33:48   frankly if I got it I got a survey about a brand being inspired my eyes and [TS]

00:33:53   delete it but this is what I mean to me this is a big this is more of a story [TS]

00:33:57   about just the PR industry and just like what they the constant sort of stuff [TS]

00:34:04   that we get thrown out as journalists you guys must get I get a lot of a lot [TS]

00:34:10   of you may like this but you must get ten times more than I do because he not [TS]

00:34:15   only covers way more than Darren barber covers I mean I covered most everybody [TS]

00:34:21   knows me for cover Apple but even so I mean I think that people know that I'm [TS]

00:34:24   just one person whereas the daily output it going is just so much greater [TS]

00:34:30   I can't even imagine how much you get what I mean isn't there a process [TS]

00:34:34   involved were you at least you look at it and you have to think we'll who who [TS]

00:34:38   who is saying right now and i mean clearly there is there's also a [TS]

00:34:44   disconnect between actually like having news judgment here of course when you [TS]

00:34:49   get a survey never heard of the person you should maybe check and see where [TS]

00:34:54   these numbers came from the legitimate what they got you know pulled out of [TS]

00:34:57   thin air but metrics like inspiring just just [TS]

00:35:04   headline was Apple brand less quotes inspiring survey says and then the [TS]

00:35:09   opening paragraph said smartphone rival Samsung is now seen as equally quote [TS]

00:35:15   inspiring in the us- says the survey by consultancy added value like I said what [TS]

00:35:23   what the hell does inspire me inspired to do what I have no idea to paint an [TS]

00:35:31   antiabortion headline and then a pro Samsung lead and it's from Samsung's [TS]

00:35:37   added and it really only took about 45 seconds of googling to do the connection [TS]

00:35:45   like this it was not like I did any kind of award-winning investigation to [TS]

00:35:51   uncover this conspiracy [TS]

00:35:53   the names of the companies and it all comes up like you really i mean is there [TS]

00:35:58   no suspicion at all as to who is giving these these numbers would be what what [TS]

00:36:09   do you mean how much how much of what you cover for you do you do you get from [TS]

00:36:13   specially email that from a PR firm you like like sort of random Lake email for [TS]

00:36:23   people I don't know kinda thing right [TS]

00:36:25   oh I don't know probably 50 emails a day from sources that I don't know at all [TS]

00:36:38   and probably half of those are totally miss targeted like I mean right before [TS]

00:36:47   we started talking i deleted an email about some website that was talking [TS]

00:36:53   about how make your work was like a celebrity like last week earlier this [TS]

00:37:01   week we were all joking about some pitch about some restaurant chain that's also [TS]

00:37:05   like so much of the stuff that you get a soft target that's not even really talk [TS]

00:37:09   but I do get you know because I cover ups like that's the biggest thing is I [TS]

00:37:13   get a lot of email about abs and some of them are totally random pitches and [TS]

00:37:17   there it's really good stuff but it's just it's definitely hard to draw down [TS]

00:37:21   and you know i knows when they're just just the pure the volume of wood most [TS]

00:37:26   you know writers at work on the web get his kind of crazy I would definitely I [TS]

00:37:31   would agree with that that random at pitches are the one that from me most [TS]

00:37:37   leads to something that I'll actually linked to an right about you know again [TS]

00:37:40   most of them no I don't whatever this happens even if it's good I have no [TS]

00:37:45   interest in [TS]

00:37:45   does whatever but every once in a while wanna come thru hey that sounds [TS]

00:37:50   interesting and I will check it out and you know a couple times a week that will [TS]

00:37:53   lead to but it also reminds me those that it and Jim Dalrymple spoke about [TS]

00:38:01   this last year at the conference ull in Dublin where he kind of smoke from the [TS]

00:38:07   perspective of what I run a busy websites Mac and iPhone news here's my [TS]

00:38:12   tips decides to develop our audience my tips on how to get my attention and and [TS]

00:38:17   you know one of his big things was keep your email as short as possible and all [TS]

00:38:22   these PR firm send out these emails battered I don't know 34 pages like if [TS]

00:38:26   you printed it out there they're enormous they're like almost like si [TS]

00:38:29   like like what I see on articles as long in order usually do I just hit the down [TS]

00:38:33   arrow go to the next message like the best ones are just tell me like three [TS]

00:38:37   sentences about why you might be interested in or out and give me a URL [TS]

00:38:40   to find out more than ten times more likely to check it out totally agree I [TS]

00:38:46   mean whenever you know if I get three or four graphs about something and it might [TS]

00:38:51   actually sound interesting what are the more aggravating things is like okay [TS]

00:38:57   having to reply and say okay can I get a link I get more information like how do [TS]

00:39:03   I tried this like absolute calm with you know like a promo code or a link to try [TS]

00:39:08   something hasn't launched yet that's great because I can just trying to do [TS]

00:39:12   the back and forth over trying to figure out how to use it and I did thing that [TS]

00:39:18   gets me as time goes on it does not seem like PR professionals are getting that [TS]

00:39:24   like they seemed there seems to be a total disconnect between what PR [TS]

00:39:29   professionals who people pay to sort of help get exposure to their product or [TS]

00:39:34   service whatever it is [TS]

00:39:35   versus the mindset of people like you and me who are getting like you said 50 [TS]

00:39:41   emails a day pitching various products and ideas maybe more right that's just a [TS]

00:39:47   random people I don't know that's not even including people that I dunno and [TS]

00:39:52   so you know if you spent a minute each day giving it serious minute of [TS]

00:39:57   consideration to eat pizza comes in europe your you would literally burn up [TS]

00:40:00   an entire hour of time every single work which is not going to happen you can't [TS]

00:40:05   spend hours just going through pitches from random people every but yet the PR [TS]

00:40:11   professional seem to have lost the ability to sort of think about it from [TS]

00:40:15   our perspective and condense it into look like a teaser he's just two [TS]

00:40:19   sentences that maybe should catch your attention and the URL and a promo code [TS]

00:40:24   that to which works way more often than a big long let me tell you [TS]

00:40:30   1500 words about this out and burry burry the actual description in the App [TS]

00:40:35   in like the 4th paragraph [TS]

00:40:42   so speaking of PR this is a nice segue John Louie gotta say I hope I'm doing is [TS]

00:40:50   French justice and a call mice week about it called an alkyl losing the war [TS]

00:40:56   of words and sort of talking about the recent snowfall shoulders recent [TS]

00:41:02   interviews about Android on the eve of the galaxy s4 launch and the new product [TS]

00:41:09   comparison page that Apple has theirs iPhone and there's everything else he [TS]

00:41:14   seemed a little bit against it thinks it funny doubtful because if you are the [TS]

00:41:17   market leader you shouldn't stoop to the level of arguing with your opponents in [TS]

00:41:23   the public and one of the things he sort of got to he didn't he didn't quite come [TS]

00:41:30   out and say Apple should hire a PR firm but he's sort of seen to insinuate that [TS]

00:41:34   they shouldn't talked about I think it's Wagner Ekstrom whatever it is with the [TS]

00:41:38   one that Microsoft is used for decades now six and how successful babe in and [TS]

00:41:44   and that sort of tactics that these in a footnote in a piece I wrote I just [TS]

00:41:49   mention that I I think Apple does have a world-class PR firm pages don't they [TS]

00:41:54   haven't hired one outside the one within the company which i think is a very a [TS]

00:41:58   polite way to go but you cover more companies than I do and I'm curious if [TS]

00:42:03   you see it the way I do that Apple has a very unique take on PR vs other very big [TS]

00:42:08   firms oh absolutely I mean I used to cover more the PC companies so when I [TS]

00:42:15   covered like dull and HP and Apple they all of them had outside agencies vs [TS]

00:42:21   apple and yeah apples is definitely different and I think it I think it [TS]

00:42:28   works for them I mean any journalist that's doubtful PR knows that they can [TS]

00:42:34   be formidable they gonna get there was was getting out with that ragged would [TS]

00:42:42   really go after you know people or [TS]

00:42:47   you know exact competitors are other companies that spoke ill of Microsoft I [TS]

00:42:53   think he gave like an anecdote about that and I mean I'd in my experience I [TS]

00:42:59   think that I think that things have changed a little bit with our PR you [TS]

00:43:04   know since Tim Cook has become CEO but just a little bit and to me that's it [TS]

00:43:12   doesn't seem like that requires a new home new tactic like what he was [TS]

00:43:17   suggesting like by going to sit outside firm they are there to have that sort of [TS]

00:43:21   team of people that are looking out for the the Brandon pushing it [TS]

00:43:27   journalists and bloggers and I would guess I mean how many people do you [TS]

00:43:32   think working Apple PR gosh I don't know I mean I think like less than 50 but [TS]

00:43:44   fifty might not be a bad ballpark number like maybe somewhere between 25 and 50 I [TS]

00:43:48   guess definitely more than 25 but I think they'd be landing but if you [TS]

00:43:54   surveyed PR firms nationwide that 25 to 50 PR firm is actually pretty good sized [TS]

00:44:01   yeah I guess I don't know how large PR firms actually are [TS]

00:44:08   I don't know you know and I'm sure that the big ones that are truly big and that [TS]

00:44:12   and that the way that it works at the big ones is that when you have a big [TS]

00:44:15   account like Microsoft or Dell you've got full-time people you know and so [TS]

00:44:21   that it's not that individual people who are working on your PR have their [TS]

00:44:25   attentions her loyalties between different companies but applies if you [TS]

00:44:29   know I would guess I I feel pretty confident that 25 to 50 range and every [TS]

00:44:35   single one of them is entirely focused solely apples and apples public [TS]

00:44:40   relations and I you know a lot of them the ones I i kno are very very bright [TS]

00:44:45   people and I think they're very very good at their job right and that's what [TS]

00:44:50   I thought was interesting about the shower incident is before you know and [TS]

00:44:56   and distally cases like [TS]

00:44:59   none of them like speak for Apple right like they don't they're not there to be [TS]

00:45:02   quoted like before it was like Steve smoke and then no one else unless it was [TS]

00:45:07   like around like a product event or something so I think that's why the [TS]

00:45:10   shower thing caught so many people who covered appl [TS]

00:45:13   off guard because that just isn't normal for you know someone that level to just [TS]

00:45:20   sort of be you know going off on competitors but don't you know [TS]

00:45:25   definitely don't make the mistake of thinking that it wasn't very very deeply [TS]

00:45:30   considered you know it's not like the show just got a bug in it but to call [TS]

00:45:34   the wall street journal and no I mean clear that he contacted several chosen [TS]

00:45:39   outlets and I get that for sure but on the other hand it's not going to be [TS]

00:45:44   someone from Apple PR who's going to do the interviewing be quoted its not Katie [TS]

00:45:48   cotton who's going to go and talk to the wall street journal not Steve Dowling [TS]

00:45:52   it's gonna be either team cookers shelter and i think thats I think that [TS]

00:45:59   there's a sort of credibility to that that's kind of mean whether you think [TS]

00:46:03   that children's comments were wise or not I do think that there's a certain [TS]

00:46:09   integrity to shoulder saying saying look here I am saying these things it's not [TS]

00:46:14   just us somebody from PR off the record putting it into a reporter's year and [TS]

00:46:22   having sources that Apple say this year's feel short going on the record [TS]

00:46:25   saying here's what I you know I think it's fragmented think that you know I [TS]

00:46:30   think they're going to be using a year old operating system etcetera etcetera I [TS]

00:46:34   think that you know here's me saying our numbers show four times more people [TS]

00:46:38   switch from Android type phone then iPhone to Android [TS]

00:46:42   so I think that's kind of interesting it is and I when I what I am more [TS]

00:46:48   fascinated by is like this question is this question of like why does that seem [TS]

00:46:53   below or something and I i had that reaction to just like guess I like it [TS]

00:46:58   just it seems somehow like fun kuthe or because of the position that Apple has [TS]

00:47:06   been in but when you think more about it and you think about other industries [TS]

00:47:11   why why why shouldn't they be able to defend themselves [TS]

00:47:16   yeah I think it's I think that this sort of revulsion to it is twofold I think [TS]

00:47:20   part of it is that Apple's had a couple of years here where their primary [TS]

00:47:25   products which I would define as the iPhone and iPad because that's where the [TS]

00:47:28   growth is not swear by far the most you know that I mean that's the whole story [TS]

00:47:33   of labs last five years is not that the Mac hasn't been doing great too but [TS]

00:47:37   let's face it that's the heart and soul the company right now and that they just [TS]

00:47:43   haven't had serious competition as what's the best product in this category [TS]

00:47:47   right now for a couple of years and when you don't have competition news no [TS]

00:47:53   competition to denigrate really and now they do i mean whatever used wherever [TS]

00:47:58   you think the score is between the iPhone 5 and the Galaxy Poor s [TS]

00:48:04   whichever one you think is you know right now leading the industry you have [TS]

00:48:07   to admit it close or closer than it's been ever since the iPhone came out and [TS]

00:48:12   so I think now they have a target and and the other thing too is it Samsung [TS]

00:48:16   over the last year has really solidified its lead as Android premiered hardware [TS]

00:48:22   developer I mean in terms of everything the number of units they sell the [TS]

00:48:25   profits the revenue there is no metric that anybody else making Android devices [TS]

00:48:29   really compare Samsung right and without a rival there's nobody to you know say [TS]

00:48:35   these things about and now they do out one and now they're doing it I think the [TS]

00:48:38   second factor is that in the past it was always Steve Jobs who would stick the [TS]

00:48:43   knife in the opponent's back and [TS]

00:48:46   and eighty was Steve Jobs and had you know this sort of our about him this [TS]

00:48:51   reputation as you know he's Steve Jobs you know he's going to say these things [TS]

00:48:56   and be he really was good at it too late she was just so good at the sort of [TS]

00:49:04   backhanded compliment or the sort of you know even if it wasn't even a backhanded [TS]

00:49:09   compliment if it was just an outright denigration doing it definitely right I [TS]

00:49:14   sort of don't I don't envy Phil Schiller having to to sort of follow in his [TS]

00:49:18   footsteps right and I can I can't even see the knife into seems like he just [TS]

00:49:26   comes across as too nice yeah and make sure to I don't know there was a mean [TS]

00:49:31   streak to Steve Jobs that the other day at the the rest of the company doesn't [TS]

00:49:35   seem to have liked among his many guess he's so good at something one of the [TS]

00:49:40   things that steve Jobs was just truly heinous act was trashing his competition [TS]

00:49:45   like he was even good at trashing the competition at next one next was really [TS]

00:49:53   struggling I mean in the market I mean he would trashed like let's say son and [TS]

00:49:59   you'd listen to me think wow that's a real burnett's great and then you look [TS]

00:50:02   at the numbers and son was telling you know forty times more work stations the [TS]

00:50:06   next was but like his trashing of Sun just seemed like he was good at I don't [TS]

00:50:13   think sure that it but he's still you know it's still it's like you're you're [TS]

00:50:16   the new shooting guard after michael jordan retired no matter how big or a [TS]

00:50:22   well let me take a break I mean do the second sponsor break and i wanna talk to [TS]

00:50:30   you about a new game for iPhone called ridiculous fishing you seem to know [TS]

00:50:37   ridiculous fishing her ridiculous fishing and it's brand new and it came [TS]

00:50:45   out and its way at the top of the charts on that story and I it sound so stupid [TS]

00:50:53   glad it's one of those games that it really is very addictive and I i [TS]

00:50:57   double-checked I ran past my son Jonas whose 9 you spend a lot more time on [TS]

00:51:02   iPhone games in me bout for it as well and said yes definitely the gist of the [TS]

00:51:08   game is your fishermen you past the line line goes down and you tilt the phone to [TS]

00:51:13   move the wine back and forth as it sinks and so it's sort of like a doodle jump [TS]

00:51:18   like mechanic retook the fun of it as it goes down you want to avoid fish because [TS]

00:51:23   if you catch a fish then it'll start going up you want to go as deep as [TS]

00:51:26   possible so on the way down to avoid fish and it gets to the bottom and it [TS]

00:51:29   comes up and then as it comes up you want to catch fish then you want to tell [TS]

00:51:33   the other way and catches then when it gets to the top and this is this is [TS]

00:51:37   hardly knew I was going to crack up you think that's it that's the game you've [TS]

00:51:42   got X number of fish and if you get a taxi gone no instead when you come when [TS]

00:51:45   they come to the top the fishermen throws all the fish in the air intakes a [TS]

00:51:49   shotgun and then you just shoot the fish in there so it's a three step process to [TS]

00:51:55   each level the line goes down you avoid finished line goes up you catch fish and [TS]

00:51:59   then the fish and it's really kind of money that is very much like to jump [TS]

00:52:07   totally one hand able to real good game we play with one hand almost yeah it's [TS]

00:52:13   really just tilting and then when the fiscal year you just happen to shoot it [TS]

00:52:18   really is a lot of fun and you can find out more ridiculous fishing dot com [TS]

00:52:24   there's no dashes or anything just ridiculous fishing guide com or of [TS]

00:52:28   course you can go to the AppStore and search for ridiculous fishing and a [TS]

00:52:33   trust me it is it is very very close and very funny it's a really fun game so go [TS]

00:52:40   check it out [TS]

00:52:40   trust me it's worth your attention so two more things is to new apps that came [TS]

00:52:49   out this week and one is the first one has to do this is Apple's podcasts at [TS]

00:52:56   the new version is version 1.2 is a bunch that it's almost like maybe they [TS]

00:53:06   could have called it 2.0 [TS]

00:53:07   I think I don't know I mean what's the big thing that's new is that you take it [TS]

00:53:11   from there is the building to create playlists and getting the call like my [TS]

00:53:18   stations and then there's [TS]

00:53:20   thinking as well it's funny that you bring up the 2.0 thing is we actually [TS]

00:53:25   we're Anna I read a review of the apt one of my freelance writers I was [TS]

00:53:33   thinking I was like I don't usually do reviews of 1.2 updates but it's the [TS]

00:53:39   invite because it had so much so much missing to begin with but it it [TS]

00:53:44   warranted it I think you and on the flip side on the surface level they took out [TS]

00:53:51   the whole reel-to-reel tape here comes that you are more thick interface I mean [TS]

00:53:58   this is you know a few more things and is you know we can argue for hours and [TS]

00:54:02   hours but nothing was more school market I mean truly in any sense of the way the [TS]

00:54:08   word as any meaning at all the tape to tape reel to reel visual interface in [TS]

00:54:13   the podcast app was either school morphism at its best or worse and that's [TS]

00:54:19   gone and so it's easier I think it's pretty easy to read into this that this [TS]

00:54:23   is the forestall is gone [TS]

00:54:26   Jony ive is in charge of the user interface where they've added a lot of [TS]

00:54:31   actual utility and taken out something that was truly a money superfluous cuz [TS]

00:54:39   it's almost too judgmental but ornamentation yes even if you loved it [TS]

00:54:44   even if you loved the real you really have to admit it wasn't a usability [TS]

00:54:48   think it was truly just warning that that's exactly how I read it to my eye [TS]

00:54:54   it was sorta like all right what can we fix what needs to be fixed I certainly [TS]

00:54:59   quickly and this seems like a perfect example of the kind of the new regime [TS]

00:55:06   that's going on with software design their right it's very much and to me you [TS]

00:55:13   know and I would guess for most people who listen to the show to me it's a very [TS]

00:55:16   good sign and I think it's unsurprising but it still is [TS]

00:55:20   good time because I you know that some of the missing creatures in the podcast [TS]

00:55:24   app when they first shipped it we're like real head scratchers like the [TS]

00:55:29   people who made this app actually listen to podcasts yet it seems like not the [TS]

00:55:37   kind I don't I didn't use a podcast episode work from home and I'm always [TS]

00:55:42   here but I mean if you like the basic basic things that you would need a [TS]

00:55:47   tablet that all the other competitors to the podcast app it was just sort of mind [TS]

00:55:51   blowing that they were there and you know I'm sure that there's a ton of [TS]

00:55:56   people who do use it because you know it is Apple's one and that but I i would [TS]

00:56:01   guess though that the more informed users like you know probably would be [TS]

00:56:07   good to know be transiting to know what listeners of this show use when they [TS]

00:56:11   listen to podcasts on my list but I would bet that only a minority used [TS]

00:56:15   Apple's podcast app because I think the people who listen to this show know [TS]

00:56:18   about all the other third party apps that are out there that do things that [TS]

00:56:22   practically speaking or just much more useful like playlists and you know [TS]

00:56:28   organizing and syncing between devices and stuff like that so I think it's a [TS]

00:56:34   good deal I think it's a good sign how something is a pretty good sign that [TS]

00:56:37   it's come out as quickly as it has and that is not something that they were [TS]

00:56:42   waiting until I was seven or something like that to ya what do you what do you [TS]

00:56:48   think as far as this was just you know taking away the tape deck thing I [TS]

00:56:53   thought was just sort of like a small step [TS]

00:56:55   do you expect more of those small steps in the next version of iOS and iOS 740 [TS]

00:57:01   think it's gonna be something a little more dramatic yeah you know I don't know [TS]

00:57:08   what to think about that because I sort of thought that this was more emblematic [TS]

00:57:12   they what we've seen in the podcast out the new version of it to me was when I [TS]

00:57:17   was sort of expecting to see systemwide not a radical departure or serious term [TS]

00:57:22   but just a minor course correction that were just a few [TS]

00:57:26   Apple's just a few degrees off the proper course and we need to know just a [TS]

00:57:31   little bit in the right direction because otherwise you'd be going a few [TS]

00:57:35   degrees of course over time obviously lost and I that's what I sort of [TS]

00:57:39   expected something like this but now I don't know because I kind of feel it may [TS]

00:57:46   be just at the not talking about like the concept of Iowa's like that why I [TS]

00:57:54   like a wire frame design level I don't think that's gonna change but maybe at [TS]

00:57:58   the chrome is gonna change [TS]

00:58:00   system wide just to make it look and I kind of feel that that's almost [TS]

00:58:06   necessary given perception out there that that iOS is sort of stagnating yeah [TS]

00:58:13   there was a camera where it was was it this week about how the Grand Apple's [TS]

00:58:23   grid layout about which is old and boring and need to be change its me but [TS]

00:58:30   that's absolutely you can improve and you can update and make it feel fresh [TS]

00:58:37   and make it feel new without like complete copying like and Reuters [TS]

00:58:42   building yeah I don't think I don't know what they can do visually to make it [TS]

00:58:47   look new without really changing the basic concepts of the home screen [TS]

00:58:51   because the home screen is so simple but I do think that that's something that [TS]

00:58:56   that is off-base cause I feel like part of the reason that so many millions of [TS]

00:59:02   regular normal users feel that their iPads or iPhones are like ice cold glass [TS]

00:59:10   of water on a hot day is because it's so conceptually simple there is no [TS]

00:59:15   confusion [TS]

00:59:16   you know you're either on the home screen and you launch it out at that one [TS]

00:59:21   button and you go back to them and that's it [TS]

00:59:24   there is nothing else to the system like the app itself may be very complicated [TS]

00:59:28   might be very simple but in terms of managing the system itself on screen [TS]

00:59:33   full of apps or you're in a nap and you want but away from I don't think I think [TS]

00:59:38   that's [TS]

00:59:39   brilliant and I think that would be foolish to to complicate that in a way [TS]

00:59:44   yeah I think some people equate simple with boring but I think those same [TS]

00:59:50   people who tend to think that are a little more technically savvy and I [TS]

00:59:54   don't know they like change or something but you know I think about people like [TS]

00:59:57   my mom like that's that's here this is made for and she opened up her iPad and [TS]

01:00:02   you're like just need to know she's an instruction how it works like it just [TS]

01:00:05   works I i think that they can get a lot of mileage out of the visual update [TS]

01:00:12   thats like I said really just changing the crop changing the color of status [TS]

01:00:17   navigation bars in the default buttons maybe redesigning the icon on screen new [TS]

01:00:23   icons for everything that you know that you know that still the Safari icon but [TS]

01:00:27   it's a new Safari icon maybe get rid of the glossiness or something like that [TS]

01:00:31   across all of Apple's built-in apps I think they would get a ton of credit [TS]

01:00:35   from that from the people who only look at how to use it because it's almost [TS]

01:00:40   literally what I'm talking about the people want to look at what I was doing [TS]

01:00:43   surface deep they would be like wow this is what we're talking about iOS 7 is you [TS]

01:00:47   know all new whereas it really just all new design visual design work not [TS]

01:00:53   conceptual design like any other words I think I would get a lot is another way [TS]

01:01:00   to put it is I think I could get a lot more credit in the press for the newness [TS]

01:01:05   of Iowa 7 through work done by designers in Photoshop through work done by [TS]

01:01:11   engineers in Xcode just by making things look like a new coat of paint across the [TS]

01:01:18   US I think they would get a lot more day one day to positive I was certainly like [TS]

01:01:25   right out of the gate you when you she shuffled off into that room and you [TS]

01:01:29   could look at stuff for 10 minutes or whatever but you know if it was if there [TS]

01:01:35   was something you know under the hood that were drastically change for the [TS]

01:01:39   worse like come out just in time to take longer for that the bubble up right but [TS]

01:01:47   still bubble up eventually [TS]

01:01:49   right whereas something that looks new just on the surface it would already [TS]

01:01:53   start making news before the keynote was over because people would have been [TS]

01:01:59   reading the live blogs and seen the slides that somebody posted live and [TS]

01:02:03   already the news stories would come out that you know Johnny ideas put his stamp [TS]

01:02:07   on I was and I think the podcast app is a perfect example of that where I saw [TS]

01:02:12   more coverage just like by searching for articles about the new podcast headline [TS]

01:02:15   I saw more articles about the removal of the tape to tape thing then about the [TS]

01:02:20   features which are little bit more esoteric and you kind of have to [TS]

01:02:23   understand out podcasting works even get why they're appealing maybe depends on [TS]

01:02:30   what blogs you read i guess i guess i feel you're probably reading people that [TS]

01:02:34   you know a little more time actually knows more than it is right well I don't [TS]

01:02:41   think you have to do well but maybe they'll be a nice feel like that is sort [TS]

01:02:46   of it's the way that everybody likes to be drawn to a nice and 16 narrative in [TS]

01:02:52   part of that narrative is that forced all got forced out of Apple because he [TS]

01:02:57   was in favor of an obscure morphism and Jony ive is not you know way more [TS]

01:03:02   complicated that's overly simplified but its but it is nice and neat and the [TS]

01:03:09   other thing is that there is a kernel of truth to that there's you know that it's [TS]

01:03:13   certainly not the whole story but it actually is you know it's one of the [TS]

01:03:17   straw that broke the camel's back against forced all I could think there's [TS]

01:03:23   no doubt that the tape to tape thing was a borstal approved design and the [TS]

01:03:27   removal of it is clearly sort of it [TS]

01:03:29   Jony ive approved and designs I can't wait to see what he does when he gets [TS]

01:03:35   his hands on passbook I wonder I see I wonder about that I don't know I think [TS]

01:03:41   Press book is kind of appropriately designed to look like the one that i [TS]

01:03:46   think is more might be marcia is Game Center which is very heavily [TS]

01:03:51   the crime that the chroma the app is very heavily yeltsin the other [TS]

01:03:59   real-world textures and stuff like that right now we pass but I meant the you [TS]

01:04:04   know when you put one of the tickets in the trash right right right the yeah I [TS]

01:04:10   wonder if you like it or not about thank you I mean I remember forestall [TS]

01:04:14   demonstrating that like a WC last year and he got a kick out of that but it [TS]

01:04:19   certainly is one of those things that just like we're doing this because we [TS]

01:04:23   can look at all so this is but it doesn't need and I will see and that's [TS]

01:04:31   when I was 14 I don't know maybe maybe that stays though because there is in a [TS]

01:04:35   certain way some amount of whimsy is appropriate right like the way that the [TS]

01:04:39   Mac always has had a trash can on the desktop and then when you put an item in [TS]

01:04:44   the trash can the trash can get that right you know it's always been once a [TS]

01:04:49   call and it's always been part of the charm so again that's what I mean about [TS]

01:04:53   it being a course correction not like an about face turn the ship around hundred [TS]

01:04:57   and eighty degrees like I don't think they're going to get rid of all the [TS]

01:05:00   whimsy I think that it's they just need to dial back a little bit the past book [TS]

01:05:07   shredders could that's a good example of I wonder where johnnie i've seen because [TS]

01:05:13   there is like when you overpass there's the trash so you know why don't you just [TS]

01:05:19   like you could it would I don't know crumpled up then go away but just like [TS]

01:05:26   just seems like extra you know more than necessary but like yes like if they're [TS]

01:05:37   gonna I mean if if there they are going to be doing a course correction to me [TS]

01:05:40   that seems like a candidate for one of the things they be like alright that's a [TS]

01:05:44   little much true and it is you know it's one of the things they rehearse those [TS]

01:05:51   key nodes to death but I do think though that a lot of the time you know they're [TS]

01:05:55   honest more ways than you think I think that for stalls pleasure in that was [TS]

01:06:00   truly genuine that he really thought this you know this is great [TS]

01:06:03   ya know I'm sure did alright so the other Apple wanted to talk about before [TS]

01:06:09   we wrap up this show is Google keep just announced yesterday is it already is it [TS]

01:06:17   yesterday i cant we're recording this on Friday at Camp I know own wrote a piece [TS]

01:06:22   about it and Marco responded in arms already responded to Marcos response but [TS]

01:06:26   i think thats all happened within a day [TS]

01:06:27   yeah I'm had some thoughts now either if it was Wednesday yeah well either way it [TS]

01:06:36   was written in a nutshell Google keep is Google's take on ever I think that's [TS]

01:06:42   fair to say yes it's you know your note pictures I forget what other attachments [TS]

01:06:49   they let you do and I would say the incident response was it was funny [TS]

01:06:56   because I knew what I wanted to say and I was busy at the time you headed it [TS]

01:06:59   took me a couple hours to me to it and everybody had already beat me to it [TS]

01:07:03   which is you know oh great here's something new from the makers of Google [TS]

01:07:08   Reader right I trust that to be around which i think was own steak right yeah [TS]

01:07:15   exactly it's like the trust as I may not exactly but that's part of his point is [TS]

01:07:19   like the trust is broken and I guess I'm sort of a sort of had that same attitude [TS]

01:07:25   like I was one of the people that I was surprised at how I felt about them and [TS]

01:07:32   in Google Reader like I thought more emotion than I would think about a free [TS]

01:07:36   service being cancelled but it's because it's related to how I do my job and I [TS]

01:07:41   think [TS]

01:07:41   way to like that actually impacts me but something like like you never know or a [TS]

01:07:48   keeper you're like stuff you actually want to keep I get to see the sort of [TS]

01:07:52   like ironic that that's the first after they bring out after killing reader very [TS]

01:07:58   personal and it's like stuff that you actually want to be around and you want [TS]

01:08:03   to know where it is in one place and you you know it's a sort of thing where [TS]

01:08:07   you're going to get invested in it like if you use an app like that [TS]

01:08:10   that you know right it becomes part of your daily routine in system and yes to [TS]

01:08:17   their credit there's like an export so you can use Google keep a month and if [TS]

01:08:21   you decide I don't like this app you can export everything I don't forget what [TS]

01:08:24   format it spits it out and that's that's great and you did not to use it if it [TS]

01:08:29   didn't have an export feature but let's just say eighteen months from now they [TS]

01:08:34   pull the plug on keep the same way they did reader it's not that you can get [TS]

01:08:38   your data it's that your your habits are broken if you were devoted user of the [TS]

01:08:44   app now you've gotta look for something new your habits are all broken you've [TS]

01:08:47   got to find a new app you've got to find a way to import the stuff you exported [TS]

01:08:51   etcetera and so forth right and going back to those charges of you know what [TS]

01:08:58   if Apple did it to Parker see why I don't think there's a good example for [TS]

01:09:02   that I can people you know I've seen some of the people starting at me and my [TS]

01:09:06   emails point out things like you know why should I trust something from the [TS]

01:09:10   makers of paying or mobile need you know web sharing or something like that and I [TS]

01:09:19   think the difference with Google Reader is that the products that Apple has [TS]

01:09:23   canceled have been ones that were I think generally everybody trees were [TS]

01:09:27   failures and pink is a perfect example right when they pulled the plug on [TS]

01:09:31   paying I mean I don't know that I saw one articles from owning the demise you [TS]

01:09:36   know I'm sure that there were some people of course there's somebody out [TS]

01:09:39   there who really loved him I don't know who you are but somebody without the [TS]

01:09:44   right you can't have it you can't be a company as big as Apple and not have [TS]

01:09:47   somebody love everything you do no matter how big her tits but when picking [TS]

01:09:51   up pulled everybody was like well I didn't see that coming thing was just [TS]

01:09:54   didn't work out and you know and MobileMe is maybe not as perfect example [TS]

01:09:59   I know that there were some people using the web sharing features that iCloud [TS]

01:10:02   doesn't have that now they have to find some other way to store their family [TS]

01:10:06   photos or something like that way they could be shared but even there it wasn't [TS]

01:10:09   like a beloved product where is Google Reader is truly beloved by at least [TS]

01:10:15   hundreds of thousands of people [TS]

01:10:17   yeah that's the difference I agree I don't think [TS]

01:10:22   think that Apple made the choice in killing off sharing with me or being [TS]

01:10:30   because suddenly like it didn't didn't necessarily fit with what they wanted [TS]

01:10:38   but had a big following right so if Apple comes out with some new after [TS]

01:10:42   service and you know you have to decide am I gonna become a user of this and [TS]

01:10:47   devote my time to learning and they had it certainly part of it is you know [TS]

01:10:52   you've got to think what is this thing you know is as Apple going to stay with [TS]

01:10:56   this and they don't stay with everything nobody stays with everything but I think [TS]

01:10:59   at least without bail you can assume if its popular they're going to keep it [TS]

01:11:03   around right whereas that's the thing that's the thing that I feel like the [TS]

01:11:08   people who want to defend Google over pulling the plug on Google Reader don't [TS]

01:11:12   quite get the thing that has people upset is that it's seemingly popular [TS]

01:11:17   enough maybe told that it wasn't a huge part of the bottom line but there seems [TS]

01:11:21   like the popularity of Google Reader outweighs the cost to Google of just [TS]

01:11:26   keeping it going maintaining it let alone investing in actually improving if [TS]

01:11:31   they just had kept it going as it was then let it languish like that how much [TS]

01:11:36   would it cost them right and I think would people will more [TS]

01:11:41   is they look at they look [TS]

01:11:45   you know Google trying to push people toward Google+ which I don't use I don't [TS]

01:11:51   like no ones on it what i mean those are for everybody I don't you just try to [TS]

01:11:59   push people just product that is not nearly as popular when people see that [TS]

01:12:03   connection I think that's probably why there's two yeah and the other factor to [TS]

01:12:09   include that's what they want I guess and i cant do you think that's a big [TS]

01:12:13   factor in their decision to pull the plug on cool readers that they somehow [TS]

01:12:16   want to just keep putting more carrots out there to draw people to Google+ [TS]

01:12:20   Google+ is not an RSS reader I think we're the only way they could work as [TS]

01:12:26   its replacement in any way for reader is it more website started publishing their [TS]

01:12:33   content to Google+ but you don't do that through RSS you have to you know it's [TS]

01:12:39   instead of using this open format RSS that you just put on your site and then [TS]

01:12:43   anybody can read it and parse it and then you know people read it parts of it [TS]

01:12:47   thousand different ways they're asking you to to become Google+ publishers who [TS]

01:12:55   are publishing it [TS]

01:12:55   your stuff only through this proprietary you know social network which you know I [TS]

01:13:01   I have no interest in doing with your entire body I I don't think I've ever [TS]

01:13:04   gotten a single request from somebody to publish during fireballs you don't [TS]

01:13:10   Google+ for your your blog content but you've got a friend in on Google+ or [TS]

01:13:17   added to the proper I created an account the day they came out and got them back [TS]

01:13:25   and they spoke to me it's like dark matter is I have 50,000 I think I think [TS]

01:13:32   50,000 followers of the daring fireball account on Twitter which is just an [TS]

01:13:37   automated feed of content from Darren fireball I mean that's pretty [TS]

01:13:44   significant daily basis [TS]

01:13:46   Twitter links are by far and away the biggest source of incoming traffic to [TS]

01:13:50   doing terrible really other than just hits to the home page from people who [TS]

01:13:54   just you know go to the browser and just hit the home page [TS]

01:13:57   seconded by far and away the biggest refers Twitter the other things [TS]

01:14:03   interesting by Google keep to me is they don't have an iOS app do it's a web of [TS]

01:14:09   course from Google so that you know there's a web interface that you can use [TS]

01:14:12   from a web browser but the only happy his friend right well I mister I'm [TS]

01:14:19   assuming that would change seems like they would eventually bring it to us I [TS]

01:14:24   guess so but it is you know it's an interesting this is MOA is finding a [TS]

01:14:33   finding a way to bring their stuff to Apple's popular when they can but I [TS]

01:14:38   think over the last couple of years though they've done an awful lot of [TS]

01:14:41   stuff even though they are the company behind and great they've done a lot of [TS]

01:14:44   stuff iOS first like didn't they have the Gmail app for iOS before or at least [TS]

01:14:49   the one for iOS got better before the 14 Android one friend rate was missing a [TS]

01:14:54   lot of features an eyeless got it first came out a couple of absurd I think [TS]

01:14:59   we're better first or at least came out at the same time on iOS and Android like [TS]

01:15:05   there you know and and a couple people have pointed out recently that Google is [TS]

01:15:09   the single most popular this measured by like downloads third-party developer in [TS]

01:15:14   the App Store oh yeah I haven't seen that number but I mean I believe it just [TS]

01:15:19   maps alone I i yet maps may be just the top three like maps I guess chrome and [TS]

01:15:25   you know that came out our YouTube I don't know maybe one of the new your [TS]

01:15:31   YouTube and yeah you to YouTube Gmail are you baby just YouTube in that saw [TS]

01:15:37   yeah but I [TS]

01:15:43   I don't know I just do you think Google keep to me is it I looked at my watch [TS]

01:15:47   the video just looks like it has a weird interface doesn't it didn't makes it [TS]

01:15:51   seem like the type of thing that should be super simple are you just make a note [TS]

01:15:55   attached a photo and it should be like that list of things and instead it's [TS]

01:16:00   like this weird almost like Windows Phone my list of where grid that I don't [TS]

01:16:06   understand the order is just the way it on the web interface or that I'm good [TS]

01:16:11   and right up which I said ok I don't know weird cocks convoluted interface [TS]

01:16:17   for something that should be super simple I don't have a use an Android [TS]

01:16:21   phone since the G one that once again I have a phone I don't know so it does it [TS]

01:16:31   seem really good fit in with the latest version of Android or not he thought it [TS]

01:16:36   was just seemed weird even compared to that just seemed weird compared to that [TS]

01:16:40   because it didn't seem like it arranges the items in the list seems like it [TS]

01:16:44   ranges of integrated somehow which doesn't make any sense to me but i dont [TS]

01:16:47   maybe I'm wrong place I'm curious to see whether it's going to be ahead or not I [TS]

01:16:51   don't know I'm very I don't know what it is but I have a poor track record of [TS]

01:16:58   predicting the successive products are usually my my my my basic ideas do I get [TS]

01:17:05   it I get the idea so like I thought I predicted that Google Wave was gonna be [TS]

01:17:09   a done because I saw the demo i watch their presentation I don't understand [TS]

01:17:13   what you're supposed to do it alone right and I you know and I thought if I [TS]

01:17:19   don't understand what you're supposed to do with this I don't see how it's going [TS]

01:17:21   to be successful and it wasn't successful I'd when Google+ lost I [TS]

01:17:26   thought I don't understand what you're supposed to use this for why you would [TS]

01:17:30   use it instead of you know Facebook or Twitter and you know it seemingly is you [TS]

01:17:35   know I don't think it's quite like Google Wave died but it doesn't seem to [TS]

01:17:39   have caught on like they were hoping [TS]

01:17:41   Google keep I understand what you're supposed to do it I do understand the [TS]

01:17:45   idea of having a nap restore your notes in your pictures and stuff like that [TS]

01:17:49   stuff you want to remember later but I don't understand why you'd want to use [TS]

01:17:54   this app instead of something else that I also feel like it's an example Google [TS]

01:18:07   sort of being like Microsoft Apple where if anybody has any success in something [TS]

01:18:12   Google wants you know so evernote is apparently very successful I'm a song [TS]

01:18:16   like a business week story where they were I forgot how many users they're [TS]

01:18:19   adding a day but it's astounding 200,000 users today or something like that [TS]

01:18:25   never raised a lot of money and have a lot of people paying for the pro service [TS]

01:18:29   and stuff like that so I feel like Google's I while there's a company [TS]

01:18:33   that's doing really well let's let's try to put them out of business [TS]

01:18:38   I mean shouldn't shouldn't like they're not protecting well maybe not maybe [TS]

01:18:43   that's not a bit you know I'm not even I i'm not saying it's a bad thing and [TS]

01:18:47   that's how competition works but I do worry though that it's a replay that [TS]

01:18:51   Google doesn't the worry is that it's like reader because Goolsbee model is [TS]

01:18:55   always do it for free and that really sometimes can be hard to compete with [TS]

01:19:01   great tits nobody else like presumably that's but the pro accounts that you [TS]

01:19:07   know that ever know needs to have a certain percentage maybe only 3 45 [TS]

01:19:11   percent of the users paying for the pro service and if Google can come in and [TS]

01:19:18   really soak up the market with Google keep where everybody is free and then [TS]

01:19:22   everybody else gets out of the business then all the sudden two years ago if [TS]

01:19:26   they pull the plug on cool keep Evernote not even around it right but I mean if [TS]

01:19:32   Apple has to do that to some extent to rate yeah definitely you know a lot of [TS]

01:19:39   what Apple does is not necessarily free services but it's free stuff built into [TS]

01:19:43   the OS right I mean like FaceTime for example where he had Skype but they made [TS]

01:19:48   a different product for free right or I message [TS]

01:19:52   compared to things like whatsapp all the other various cross-platform text [TS]

01:19:58   messaging services and many maps obviously I mean though that absolutely [TS]

01:20:03   free [TS]

01:20:04   but right although with maps the competition is specifically against [TS]

01:20:08   other entrenched map providers who are also giving their maps out for free so [TS]

01:20:14   it's not quite like Apple maps dinner a market where people were trying to make [TS]

01:20:17   money whereas like iMessage definitely came into a market where they were upset [TS]

01:20:22   you that the buyer paid you know to get out of the ad yet do you know pay $0.99 [TS]

01:20:27   or whatever for enacted that did it without so maybe I don't know that's all [TS]

01:20:40   I've got you think so we covered a lot [TS]

01:20:45   yeah it's a good show thank you Erika you're welcome thanks for having me on [TS]

01:20:50   this is great and you know maybe if there's an Apple event soon maybe I'll [TS]

01:20:54   see you soon [TS]

01:20:55   just a funny thing there can I always joke about as we both live in [TS]

01:21:00   Philadelphia and we tend to only see each other when California at outlets [TS]

01:21:05   next time next time you have me on it if you have me on a live show like hop [TS]

01:21:15   singer something very silly we should we could we should have to think about that [TS]

01:21:21   but that would just be so much easier though to do that what do you think that [TS]

01:21:28   we should think about that I have you can you can verify floor for fans of the [TS]

01:21:38   day this is my favorite my favorite part world but so do you do which is good I [TS]

01:21:47   have to say it was better than I thought it would be I mean just because all the [TS]

01:21:52   hype and sort of my understanding of the general weirdness [TS]

01:21:56   about it and kind of a cruise ship to jump through to get in I was pleasantly [TS]

01:22:01   surprised by what I not only what a great experience it was like once you're [TS]

01:22:04   in but how good the drinks are you can kind of say like the drinks are good but [TS]

01:22:10   until you have them they're just i mean I don't know I have not found a place [TS]

01:22:17   that makes better drinks no I haven't gone anywhere and to me that thing about [TS]

01:22:22   the whole craft cocktail movement is that so many places you think would have [TS]

01:22:27   great drinks because it looks nice and it looks like somebody spent so much [TS]

01:22:30   time designing the place coming up with the team in coming up with a menu and [TS]

01:22:35   you try the drinks and it is terrible to me it's almost like a hipster look at [TS]

01:22:41   what I enjoy drinking this thing that tastes like bong water and no I don't [TS]

01:22:46   think there's a lot of pretentiousness pretentiousness on the outside and with [TS]

01:22:53   the locked door and you have a way to get in and all of this and there's this [TS]

01:22:58   fussiness all the rules yeah there's rules and stuff like that and it puts up [TS]

01:23:02   this red flag and you think you're gonna get you know these drinks that taste [TS]

01:23:05   like bong water something like that or you know here's a drink that tastes like [TS]

01:23:09   30 cigars at the bottom of it and instead the drinks are so simple and [TS]

01:23:14   unpretentious and just delicious yet they're genuinely good and I i think [TS]

01:23:19   also there's sort of a little bit of intimidation factor is you think like oh [TS]

01:23:24   maybe I'm not I don't know as much about drinking certain types of alcohol or [TS]

01:23:28   whatever but they're good even drink that I'll call you might not normally [TS]

01:23:32   drink they're really good [TS]

01:23:34   yeah and the other thing too is once you were in and you listen to the rule may [TS]

01:23:40   be a red flag is up to you think this place is hipster central I'm not going [TS]

01:23:43   like this once you're in no the customer service is extraordinary [TS]

01:23:47   it's so yeah we're all they really want is for you to be happy with your drinks [TS]

01:23:52   and I have never seen a place where I'm more often if I try something new they [TS]

01:23:57   like come back and do you like it and you know seriously you know I got taken [TS]

01:24:01   off on taking up the bill [TS]

01:24:04   or whatever like what everyone I do you like it I mean I know I love you sure [TS]

01:24:09   cuz we really want you to love this great yeah it's also here's a tip I went [TS]

01:24:17   there on New Year's Eve was no one there so I mean literally the quietest I [TS]

01:24:23   should say no one there probably like five other couples there but if you want [TS]

01:24:26   a quiet New Years Eve in philadelphia think its way to go [TS]

01:24:30   it's amazing you know we thought about going on do you see instead we just [TS]

01:24:33   stayed home but it's funny cuz if we would have got out music that we would [TS]

01:24:36   have been that would have it was aight I was worried it was gonna be like pack [TS]

01:24:41   240 people that's why we thought we'd like we'll just try this and this is [TS]

01:24:48   definitely the right choice you know why I think the reason it was quite an uzi [TS]

01:24:52   just too many people who want to have a raucous and there's no way to leave is [TS]

01:24:58   ever gonna let things get out of control [TS]

01:25:00   you know what that's true right so people who know that they want to have a [TS]

01:25:08   big lad news even if they've ever been saying they know they're not going to [TS]

01:25:11   get away with it there so they didn't get any other show no worries me I'll I [TS]

01:25:15   would like a quite literally the countdown to the night was like I heard [TS]

01:25:19   one of the bartenders go like 430 quiet and like literally one couple clapped [TS]

01:25:25   was very cool that's great I'm so glad to know really kind of felt like I [TS]

01:25:30   missed out on New Year's Eve yeah we'll have to see I bet there's zero chance [TS]

01:25:35   that we will let us do it she would do it like five o'clock or something you [TS]

01:25:40   know I don't know what to say that would be fantastic to be a great idea [TS]

01:25:45   all right thank you again Erica this is a great show and i'm ok bye [TS]