The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► this week's episode of the talk show is brought to you by Backblaze online [TS]

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00:00:16 ◼   ► I saw you I saw your you're getting you'd you dig in deep on the PHP stuff [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► again I have and I you're gonna switch to nginx a stinking Imaginext [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► yes I why I don't give nobody named your software somewhere it's ambiguous [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► houseboats and genetics she's Christ this stupid spell that I i'm still like [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► I'm one of those people we're even if the project owner or the project [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► maintainer insist that they could get the correct pronunciation is a certain [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► way if I think the pronunciation too stupid I won't use it so like like [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► SQLite is one of those things where I think the the actual official [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► pronunciation and I believe is is a sequel light or something or is it [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► something weird that I thought was done so I did I don't use that same thing [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► with like gift vs Jeff ICQ and I don't really care of the correct pronunciation [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► is its gift was about to ask you how you pronounce Gia Lai pressing gift as well [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► and and [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► its I know that it stands for graphics interchange format so I feel like [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► there's a reason to stand on that and it ends it ends up that the guy who [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► invented it pronounces it Jeff and all the diff people say well if he invented [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► and he calls it Jeff it must be Jeff and I say no it's gift I don't feel like [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► this is like a George Lucas scenario I get some point that you got to override [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► the creator we're not changing the format know right I'm not I haven't [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► redefined what the gif interchange you know graphics format is I've been [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► rendered it technically you know some kind of incompatibility I'm just telling [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► you it should be pronounced gift exactly and at some point you have to say you [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► know what I respect you for creating this thing or working at the company [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► that created this thing but you're you're just wrong on this also Jeff [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► already is it think its peanut butter is kind of a crappy mass-produce peanut [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► butter but it is a very popular peanut butter whereas gif is out there for the [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► taking there is no gift it's unambiguous if you if you say that this image format [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► is gonna be pronounced gif than any time you hear judge if you know they're [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► talking about peanut butter and not an image format I'll go even further and [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► say hey look we've got a whole bunch of words in the English language that have [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► G and it's sometimes hard G sometimes a soft G but if you gonna make up a new [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► word with Ag why not go the unambiguous route and use the G in the Hartge format [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► where there is no other letter that makes that sound and if you want the [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► soft G sound use it jack and can also when you when you hear gift there's no [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► I'm big on how its spelt exactly exactly exactly I tell you to get a gift find [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► you don't even know what it is well how are you gonna write that down I don't [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► maybe I'll add an extra half I don't know but at least you'll be in the [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► ballpark [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► or at the worst you had an extra I'm one of those guys who like I I know people [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► say paying for the PNG format but I I stuck with PNG for a long time I think I [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► might even still said I don't get a chance to see it very often so not [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► positive on that but I still say PNG format for the ambiguity of reason I [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► think I don't know I'm not quite sure I think ping ping involved so late in the [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► game relative that I was already sort of working by myself most of the time by [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► the time PNG became widely used whereas whereas with Jeff and see if that was [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► what I was like collaborating working with people and so I had to say it'll I [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► don't remember saying PNG let you like working a whole loan you can you not you [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► can avoid saying everything out loud except when your podcast or speak [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► somewhere in my head though I think of it as a PNG yeah it just seems right [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► pincus already mean something computers and business people stole it to me [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► something even worse I'll ping you later talked about our action items they still [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► download they still so many things terrible speaking of business people [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► here [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► Windows Live they're they're like phasing out that brand and their faith [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► and their totally getting rid of the Hotmail brand saw something on Twitter [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► last night I went to bed about that i truly a billion people on some double [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► check I believe I know it was the largest webmail service for quite a long [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► time even long after gmail has released I believe it might still be the largest [TS]

00:05:01 ◼   ► or that Yahoo's [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► up their gmail has always been third place there but especially like [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► worldwide if you go past the USA heading gmail is more popular in the USA and [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► worldwide it gets worse 44 Gmail but it's crazy like Hotmail was the first [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► mass scale web and that name is now going to be totally gone but a Microsoft [TS]

00:05:25 ◼   ► change the name of their online consumer service [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► like every five years just like when to when did Windows Live start with like [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► with Xbox Live after that who knows what was at seven or eight years ago they [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► started that that's all gonna be gone and out of going to outlook.com and who [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► knows what else that's not very interesting doesn't have their shit [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► together in terms of getting acquisitions on brand like you know like [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► the hot nothing if your gonna do that why not do it years ago why wait 10 [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► years I'm not really sure microsoft knows what theyre branding is you know [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► they I think one of the problems they keep changing their own minds about it [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► and like over about five years ago he started really maybe even more than that [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► disorder really shutting windows in your face more like this [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► adding the word windows to the names of all the programs that they made their [TS]

00:06:20 ◼   ► run on Windows Windows Explorer Windows Internet Explorer and Windows Live like [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► things at the same thing with office so now it's like Microsoft Office Word [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► Microsoft Office Excel which is just kind of clumsy and I don't I don't [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► really know what the goal there was except like to beat people over the head [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► with the fact that its windows they are using an office at this is a part of but [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► I think there's better ways to do that I think people are really care anymore [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► clumsy yeah I've always interpreted that from the outside as being bomber bomber [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► thanks that Windows winner has Windows makes a lot of money and Windows clear [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► market winner [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► and so we just take him insisting that everything is Windows whereas it doesn't [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► even make any sense you know like I've said this before like 10 with this whole [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► thing where they contribute to call Metro after they lost in a metro and [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► they still call it you know when does but it doesn't even the whole thing with [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► the new UI is that it doesn't even involve windows I mean little window [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► lower lower case W windows I mean it was at least the name windows at least [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► applied to the software originally it was hey here's the thing you put on your [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► computer and everything runs in a rectangle that's called a window and you [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► can have a lot to you know and everything's in these records [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► overlapping rectangles called windows if they lost that long I'm even even back [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► with Windows CE and then became Pocket PC and then Windows Mobile 2003 read [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► that too but even that like it looked like windows but I think everything was [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► full screen once I think so I think it was sort of like Windows it it looked [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► like the windows Chrome but you couldn't couldn't make the windows over and they [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► they crammed in there was another example of them overusing the windows [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► brand in the windows theme of windows everywhere like they they crammed in the [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► start menu and crammed in like the little minimize and close buttons in the [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► title bars and so you really get looked like windows but it didn't really work [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► that way and it works very well [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► devices of that size and to me it makes even less sense for the online stuff [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► yeah because when I mean obviously know there are thinking of the word windows [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► in the lower case W way they haven't thought about that way for a very long [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► time you know they they own network now it's like a weird extra superfluous [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► level of higher tho branding lies where why not just emphasize Microsoft [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► right there is the thing that you can get that everybody's heard of and it's [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► already familiar and it you know you know it's it's a well-known popular [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► brand I mean I know for years and years in a Microsoft Worldwide Brands survey [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► was like top three ranked ahead of Apple and Google like up there with a Coke and [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► something else I never understood why they didn't emphasize that more because [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► you're right that they've been driving home the windows brand for four years so [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► hard but I don't think it really sticks of people get you ask people you know do [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► you have a Windows computer a bit more people would not really know what to say [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► to that but if you ask them if they had a Microsoft computer actually people [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► don't really care about the windows brand right so if you want something to [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► parlay your new product your new initiative here's a new thing we're [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► doing we're doing online services when I just stick with the company instead of [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► you know going two dollars even having Microsoft Windows Live now you've got [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► these two levels of branding higher everything's under Windows or Office [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► took your hard drive and put everything in one folder at the root level [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► hard cold shoulders right files right we'll have that one extra level of of [TS]

00:10:16 ◼   ► higher ticket doesn't make any sense they always have this kind of like you [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► kind of think something may be in the water up there and you'll like it just [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► seems like Microsoft lives in a slightly different reality than the rest of us [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► when it comes to things like branding and marketing of their stuff and it just [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► seems like you can tell that they like in their world of Redmond and their [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► various office campuses and everything like in their world where all those [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► people live and hang out and talk to each other this all makes perfect sense [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► and then when you when you get like some kind of a weird new commercial out of [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► there or some kind of weird new product and they come up with the rest the road [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► is kind of like [TS]

00:11:00 ◼   ► what a little bit off you know it's like if you ever spent any time in in western [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► Pennsylvania especially northwestern Pennsylvania in the Erie region almost [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► everything there is just a little bit off their [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► pittsburgh is a pretty nice place where western Pennsylvania Northwest I went to [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► college there and there's been quite a lot of time there it's you know [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► Microsoft could be headquartered there it's very much like the same kind of [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► just a little bit off his friends a little off to the side I was joking with [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► Amy the pittsburgh is a little bit likes the simpsons Springfield it's sort of [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► sequestered half half part of all mostly part of modern North American pop [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► culture but has its own stuff like and and the best example is the way that [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► Springfield as Duff Beer they've got the Iron City Beer and pizza which you can [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► buy nowhere else no one else carries Iron City Beer and in Pittsburgh it [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► everywhere its Budweiser and Miller and Coors all rolled into one yet pittsburgh [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► is is and I live every couple years I like Pittsburgh a lot it's it's a really [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► nice city in a lot of ways but yeah there are some things about their lake [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► or just kind of bizarre and but no one ever thinks it's bizarre to them it's [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► you know it's just that's how things are and most places but I feel like [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► pittsburgh has has more of a quirky personality than most cities do but [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► that's true of a lot of things in Pennsylvania in general in pennsylvania [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► is just kind of quirky [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► so what's it tell me something weird about you people are what's going on up [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► well first of all I think the whole place is made of cigarettes it's it's [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► just like you can just if you're driving anywhere within 20 miles of year you'll [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► smell cigarette smoke and the entire I mean I don't I don't know everyone there [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► smokes and I mean it's it's kind of a depressing place like it's the economy [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► of Erie has been pretty terrible for a pretty long time you know it's one of [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► those post-industrial places just never really recovered but everything was [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► outsourced the climate is awful it's way more snow than you'd expect based on its [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► latitude and it's it's just really miserable and it's kind of in the middle [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► of nowhere to so it has everything working against it but the people who [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► live in Erie people who are from Erie and include a lot of my family in this [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► actually left but people who live in Erie tend to be perfectly fine with it [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► and and not not recognized or not care that it's such a depressing place and a [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► lot of them have literally never been anywhere else like never left the Erie [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► area and it just fine as long as they smoke constantly I guess that makes it [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► ok so I don't I'm never going to cigarette guys wanna really know what it [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► does to you but you know that that makes it ok to live in the area so you know [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► whatever it takes [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► sure they're fine people very nice I would be interested in seeing a map that [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► shows like areas where smoking is still permitted in restaurants [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► pennsylvania's the Big Red Dot [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► you've heard james carville the former area guess is on TV now but clinton guy [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► but his description of Pennsylvania I think it applies both politically and [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► culturally but he said it [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► Philadelphia on one side Pittsburgh on the other and Alabama in the middle [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► that's that's pretty accurate as you know quite to win the state requires a [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► run that way you know you don't just campaign in pennsylvania campaign very [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► differently in Pittsburgh in Philly areas than you do in Harrisburg and a [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► new york is very similar to mean everyone thinks of New Yorkers who is [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► not from here from the side of the country everyone thinks of New York as [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► being like the city but in fact it's it's extremely diverse state that is a [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► very large state with lots of different political climates lots of different [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► types of people not to protect the places yeah right like the state [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► legislature New York is nothing like the city politics in the new york city and [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► the state can't get anything done because the status of incredibly diverse [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► that the state legislators can't agree on anything I think it's a little bit I [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► think pennsylvania's non-urban areas though are more people than new york's I [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► could be wrong or if if I'm not wrong if I am wrong about it being more like more [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► split like I feel like New York is so big it's you know it's clearly way [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► bigger population wise Dan Fillion Pittsburgh combined [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► may not even be that the non-urban areas in Pennsylvania are more populous it's [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► just that the urban area is in as populated enough to compensate the way [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► the New York City Kan in New York like I feel like when we get a republican [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► governor we get much more like a regular republican governor like you know just [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► like typical republican governors throughout the country as opposed to New [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► York where you get like a pataki whose you know a little bit more moderate same [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► thing with new jersey with [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► what's the name of that big guy Christie Christie chris Christie happen if that [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► sounds like he's a comic book character chris Christie signed a bill that if if [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► you're taking drugs with your pals and one of them as an overdose and you [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► report it you can't you won't be you won't get price you know your immune [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► from prosecution for having taken the drugs herself seems very sensible EADS [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► price that wasn't already yeah that's the thing is they can believe that [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► conservatives are giving the guy should for signing the bill that yes I can I [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► love the guys explanation to use like look I don't want anybody breaking laws [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► and anybody taking drugs but if you think it's more important to prosecute [TS]

00:17:24 ◼   ► someone for taking drugs than saving somebody else's life you know we're [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► gonna have a disagreement we don't get republicans like that anyway enough [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► politics now that we've lost all the listeners now that we've lost all of the [TS]

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00:18:19 ◼   ► daring fireball that's where to cause this is the talk-show not daring [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► fireball but that's the URL that one got to give them what they want [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► kind of interesting [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► kind of interesting I thought that's a little nutty and then I thought you know [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► what that really gonna stick if I were listening to the show I would think [TS]

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00:20:07 ◼   ► checked currently have 1.3 terabytes from my computer backed up and my wife's [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► computer I believe has about another 1.8 terabytes [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► over three terabytes of stuff you'd better come over the last couple years [TS]

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00:20:34 ◼   ► Dropbox for everything I have like small documents document in Dropbox but [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► nothing like really big and not all of my stuff [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► so what you can do is like I was I was away from home on time and I couldn't [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► get back to my computer is back to my Mac or whatever it's called this year [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► was not going through the airport extreme properly or something whatever [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► reason I couldn't access my files directly and I needed a file on my [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► desktop so I just went to Backblaze and pulled it off there on my laptop from [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► vacation and it was fun because because online backup your files and so it's [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► kinda like an infinitely size Dropbox for you you know you can go if you [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► forgot to bring a file with you on vacation you can go fetch it from your [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► back please [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► actually didn't know that it's pretty cool and that's why I believe that's one [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► of the headlining features of the iPhone app was released is the ability to that [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► from the iPhone to express that way you don't have to worry about syncing stuff [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► to your iPhone you to sort of pick and choose and access exactly and I can I [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► make a joke about their pun about losing their stuff in a fireballer blazer [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► whatever but the truth is if you're only backups are in your house you are at [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► risk of you know what if your house catches on fire what if you get rocked [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► right if you get robbed and you know burger comes in how they probably just [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► gonna grab anything that looks computer II including your hard drive yeah I [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► would say if you have any kind of reasonable upstream you know if you have [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► like you know if you're a star Michael 128 K upstream DSL then you know when [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► you gonna be careful with what you back up online but if you have anything [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► fashion that if you're in cable if you're an optical its FiOS you gotta do [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► this I mean it's it's online backup is awesome I that I will say that you know [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► that they didn't pay for you for me to say this but online backup is [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► ridiculously awesome and I've tried a few of the options of my favorite by far [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► as backwards so amazing I had no idea that you were a break their back plz [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► user I did not invite you to be my guest this week because I don't even know what [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► that would've been a pretty weak but it's a happy accident but smart sponsors [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► art guests and it's not a not entirely [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► coincidental that they that there are you aware of each other like most last [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► week with the internet people like exactly what did what else this week the [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► big thing I guess I am one of the big things is this all of a sudden like this [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► week there was like a spate of reports mark Gurman at 9 to 5 Mac was first and [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► then John Paczkowski it all things D and adam said Tori I know at Bloomberg all [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► sort of reported on iOS 7 being a little bit late behind schedule sort of under [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► the gun to get it ready to show at WWDC and have it ready to ship [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► presumably you know September October when a new iPhone maybe iPad or [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► something like that are coming out and be that it's one of the reasons behind [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► is that they're they're doing like a top-to-bottom you I overall I presume [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► you've read these stories I had and I mean first of all you know what is it [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► whenever something is reported to be behind that still you know six months [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► out you gotta wonder like what what is it actually running behind schedule or [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► is it just not the schedule to the reporter assumed or wanted yeah well in [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► this case i i you know and and all of them I think I don't know about Garmin [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► Garmin story in 925 my long and enduring that I didn't did not finish it he's a [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► good kid and he's doing really good work but that story had was a lot of words [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► for very little information but I will say and I don't I'm not the type of [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► person who get hung up on it but I started rolling my eyes at all of this [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► because I put all this in a branch discussion like a month ago and they all [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► they actually gave me credit both said Torreon [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► Skalski graciously said that it was first reported fireball but it was like [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► a month ago so I do I do I had did hear that and that was like a month ago that [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► it I was seven is behind not just in terms of like speculation but within [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► Apple it was behind where they wanted it to be in terms of and I think that in [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► actually affected the WWDC announcement date in terms of they were not a hundred [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► percent sure that it would be ready even show at WWDC until late April like I [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► don't think that they really purposefully like announcing WWDC only [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► five or six weeks before it the date in years past sometimes they've announced [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► in March and I think that if if everything had gone perfectly according [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► to schedule I think that they might have announced WBC a month earlier but that [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► it was you know where we sure that we're gonna have it in shape to show and then [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► whatever they show in June you know it's such a high-profile event but the Kino [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► and and they're expected to show iOS 7 and show details about it during the [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► keynote and until all the developers about it for the next few days so you [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► know it pretty much has to be feature complete and ready to demo what what is [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► six weeks from now five weeks and really soon and they don't have to give a [TS]

00:26:10 ◼   ► developer beta but it's weird if they don't because of the guy right telling [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► you about these new things like things that are different things that are new [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► and they want you to start working on it would be wit and usually they do usually [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► they have you know a developer beta you know that you if you're it you know [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► after the keynote you can sign and ADC in there's no I was 7 beta 1 or [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► something like that [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► exactly and also you know they they have to have it ready a couple weeks ahead of [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► the presentations they can make the presentation and make sure that's gonna [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► be solid and you know it's the developer betas of iOS and Mac OS 10 they are [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► betas I mean you know and it's it's the people who [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► somebody's always does it is because it's new and shiny now have to have the [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► newest shiny thing they go ahead and install it on their regular day-to-day [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► iPhone an hour after never let me forget you but your actual developer though and [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► you know what you're getting into you did that in Dec I did it for iOS 5 I [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► will never do it again and I reaction remember where I was when I gave you [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► should have at it we were in the lobby at the W [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► taxi going somewhere I thought but when we left the W I remember being in the I [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► think there were multiple should give indications that the lobby bar at the W [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► Hotel and this doesn't work but that's you know even given the fact that bug [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► enos is excusable and understandable and that's the whole reason that debate it's [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► not actually released it has to be there certain minimal functionality that has [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► to be there and and and you know and almost all of the headlining features [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► you know whatever those are going to be those have to be at least working it had [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► to be done but they have to be you know damnable to some degree they have to be [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► you know functional I was gonna be tough with syria functional I think it was [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► 6010 series [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► Syria didn't come as as the WTC really seem like a 4.1 5.1 kind of thing that's [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► right that's right right right now that explains why that's right I'm looking [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► forward to 70 [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► I want to see what they do you know we we don't really know you know but we [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► don't really know how much is going to change since forestall been out because [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► he has been out for that long and so we know it's it's going to be hard to to [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► really look at seven and say well this was all joining I'd stuff like certainly [TS]

00:28:58 ◼   ► it's going to be a lot of difference but it hasn't been long enough to see the [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► full effects of what that major change in design leadership is going to lead to [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► end and to patch Caskey and Tori honors credit specially patch Caskey has [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► reported AllThingsD again I don't I'm not real good but anyway but a lot of [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► the so important shown us because I've linked to an enduring fireball and I [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► just presume that everybody out there who listens to this podcast listens to [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► reach my site too but podcast he had some quotes from sources which was new [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► likes people who obviously familiar with what they're doing with Iowa 7 talking [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► you know they didn't there's no names but you know it's still better than the [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► rest of us have like I you know I've talked to people but I've not talked to [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► anybody who let me quote them and I have not talked to anybody who's actually [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► told me anything specific about what what it actually looks like it's a deep [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► forest Ali's impossible to pronounce worker to rate money somebody on Twitter [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► favorite in it or something to somebody on Twitter us tonight said what's this I [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► hear about iOS 7 to deforestation [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► Apple [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► the wall street journal front-page scandal ahead tomorrow is gonna leave [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► the station here next year times pulitzer yeah I don't know you know and [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► it's hard I don't know I seriously AM I being coy I have not spoken to anybody [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► who's actually seen iOS 7 what the direction they're going and his I don't [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► know anybody who's actually seen it but I've heard is people who've seen people [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► who have seen it and know about those those filters that they put over the [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► funds security filters that you have to look be looking at exactly the right [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► angle to see it and i also know that this is in fact the first time they've [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► done that with iOS 6 in 543 that the people who had the permission to carry [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► the building before it was released on their personal phones outside the campus [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► did not have those filters right so obviously you know that that supports [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► what we hear from everyone else which is basically that it's a big change for a [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► 66 didn't look that different six had like a minor refresh on some of the [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► greens and some of the coloring and some of the shading but it was a pretty minor [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► overall difference in appearance and if you are just looking across the bar and [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► saw someones phone on you wouldn't really noticed that was something really [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► different right but in this case sounds like they're prepared for that [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► particular how come and want to prevent that and you know so it's different [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► enough that you would notice 20111 comment i've gotten from a couple people [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► by email and Twitter here's one it's a tweet that I noted from a reader named [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► spin see what's so it's a CWI Tiziano man I hope your name right [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► he tweeted yesterday to me johnnie Ivan software I fear he might take the fun [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► out of the OS Mac software has always had elements of playfulness and that's a [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► sentiment that's perfectly express that I've a bunch of people have sort of set [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► like hey I you know this whole flat thing I kinda hate that term but this [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► whole flat thing and the anti ace is this all gonna be like no fun and i dont [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► think thats I don't think that's something anybody should be worried [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► about it I think that there's a difference between the sort of thing [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► zuber hence I don't know you wanna Corning this even of Game Center I mean [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► Game Center is one of the ones that they mention specifically like that it's not [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► going to look like a craps table anymore [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► Game Center was always like an extreme example of something really i mean it [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► was just really inexcusably bad because that was back from from the from various [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► softly into the Steve Jobs era and it was pretty clear they were at Steves [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► career that he did not really respect or understand the gaming market at all and [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► and that's like you know if this is what they think gaming felt card table from a [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► casino like that's that's that's their interpretation of video games it's like [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► it's so different from the actual role of video games and it's so betrayed a [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► deep misunderstanding or lack of respect of the gaming market right back that's [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► always been like that as a very extreme example yeah and I think that's a good [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► way to put it [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► and and that's again I don't know you know for all I know you know it could be [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► that the new look of Iowa seven is completely sterile and no fun and [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► unemotional and [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► robotic I don't know but I I don't think so I'd be very surprised at that because [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► I think the key word to keep in mind is or one of them is is emotion and Apple [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► is always designed for emotion that makes you do stuff they they make makes [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► you feel a certain way and I would say look no further than their product [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► marketing writer commercials and stuff like the new one that the latest one is [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► the one with the iPhone camera which i think is one of the best commercials [TS]

00:34:21 ◼   ► they've had in awhile [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► yeah and there's nothing silly about it like in the way that game center is [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► silly or the leather in the calendar APIs is silly it it's not silly but it's [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► definitely emotional and it's definitely there's playfulness and fun kids on [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► skateboards there's it's not dead serious either right I feel like thats [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► exactly what they've probably be going for it and less textured 3d depth look [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► and feel ya we have to consider to you know what what exactly their styling and [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► where the fun and playfulness and emotions should come from I mean if you [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► if they're gonna give the default UI kit widgets new default styles like they [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► kinda do with iOS 6 but you know they're going to a more severe version of that [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► then what that's going to affect our apps that use the default UI could wages [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► and I mean I I think I could argue and you would probably argue that you [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► probably shouldn't be looking to the default which is to provide a whole lot [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► of personality to your application you know if you're going to want to add that [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► emotion and personality or even if you're not the case never once has a lot [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► of stuff and has designed up these days you probably should not be using stock [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► appearances of anything you should be custom skinning almost everything a [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► custom-designed almost everything that youre abuses or at least we can the [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► defaults and if you look now like apps that use just the defaults don't show [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► any emotion they you know they don't show any don't show much playfulness [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► absolutes defaulted a look old and terrible [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► yeah and there's certain maybe there's some playfulness to it though let one [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► thing is that the default look across iOS has a lot of glossiness you know and [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► just starting even without bike on swear if you do nothing [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► your app automatically gets that fake U-shaped gloss top third and I know you [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► can suppress that you know there's a way that you can you appeal is filed you can [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► suppress that bite specifying something but you get that by default and most a [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► lot of contact that and all their apples icons have that you know they do eat dog [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► food on that if you look at it as far as it is not they've had a bit like [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► messages and phone and stuff like that they have this lhasa credit across the [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► top [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► you get it played in this system standard alert box that blue translucent [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► thing that pops up late when you need to put your Apple lady password in or when [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► it says hey you know you've got airplane mode on in this thing requires network [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► access to want to go to settings or cancel that that you know everybody's [TS]

00:37:14 ◼   ► seen that dialog box 10,000 times has that fake trend glossiness to it like [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► that I can guarantee you that going away I gotta know if they're going to [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► completely redesign the look at that dialogue but the glossiness is going [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► away any what I would love as a developer is for half of what I just [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► said to be wrong for you know what I would love would be enough of a refresh [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► of the default components that you can start using them again like it right now [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► if you release an app that uses default components it will it'll just because [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► the style is kind of outdated now a lot of that still looks like 2007 and you [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► know if you and I were six teams some of it they change some of the gloss to just [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► like reading and stuff like that but there's still quite a lot of it there [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► and you know I would love as a developer to have better defaults again or to make [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► it easier to customize those default like right now if you want to pop up an [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► alert dialog box like we were just talking about with a custom look on it [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► you have to make you have to re-employment the entire alert dialog [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► box yourself you have to complain all the behavior of it yourself and they've [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► been slowly integrating more you know the UI appearance stuff so integrating [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► more of that into the OS since I was five but they're still so many things [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► that are so fixed in their default style that the most you can do maybe as 10 to [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► them or replace the entire thing manually and you know if they if the new [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► defaults are kinda less heavy-handed with with their books with their default [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► looks default styles if their little bit lighter and simpler and if that's what [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► people mean by flat you know if they're little bit lighter and simpler then [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► it'll be better for everybody [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► it'll be better for developers it'll be less old looking for users and any [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► easier for designers to work with him I think we've gotten some hints already [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► about the the direction they're going and maybe the magnitude of it so one of [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► them is that the podcast at the Apple podcast app is called pop yes and the [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► the new version that came out a couple weeks ago is not just like a bug fix [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► release compared to the original version you know they got famously got rid of [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► the the the real to reel tape recorder interface which was that doesn't counted [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► and there's all sorts of arguments what counts as quote-unquote school market [TS]

00:39:44 ◼   ► but that's that's the school market is anything [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► I mean it actually looked like a 3d reel to reel tape recorder that's gone but [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► there's other things in the change just ask that a changes in there that like [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► the buttons have become a lot less 3d they don't look as much like physical [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► buttons on her bra on tape recorder from 1965 there just you know they're just [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► you know that a triangle foreplay and and you know I think for fast forward [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► and stuff like that if you look if you google for it like you know the changes [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► between them podcast app it's not radical it's not like unfamiliar it's [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► not like if you are already familiar with the old podcast app that now you're [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► lost in the new one it's you know just taking out some of the exuberance of the [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► fake device notice I think it's you know and I super down on on on this [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► commercialism but I do think though that it it taken to the level that it has [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► been in turn the apps it's dishonest and a lot of times it's unnecessarily clunky [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► that's that's a thing where it gets in the way like people people often cited [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► find my friends and it's crazy letter thing as as being like the epitome of [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► bad secure more visible I don't really think it was that bad it was just the [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► skin and it didn't really interfere with how you use the app it was just that [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► sort out the toolbars look but the podcast app that giant real real feeling [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► that was actually interfere he was taking up too much space things like [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► gestures didn't work that the speed knob thing didn't work well you'd expect it [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► to and it was hard to use like that's when actually is a problem and it's [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► dishonest here's a perfect reason why I used the word dishonest because if you [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► have a real reel-to-reel tape or any sort of tape [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► you have a real limiting factor in terms of seeking to go ahead like if you have [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► an hour long podcast and you know that the part that you're interested in is [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► like 45 minutes in with you and your at the beginning you've got to wait and [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► hopefully you know in a fast forward can only go so fast it's gonna shred the [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► tape right and you gotta wait to get there [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► well there is no one of the great advantages of going digital with video [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► and audio is we no longer have to do that right and so using that is the [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► metaphor it's a false metaphor because you're all the limits that apply to [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► actual to tape or to a strip of film if you wanted to do that and and have liked [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► you know carry that analogy to a video player and have a film projector none of [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► those it doesn't hold up right that's why that's always been my complaint with [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► calculator app so I always prefer silver instead because they they were just [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► mimic this old type of devices the old calculators that would have his one line [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► of of digits and their billing no no real backspacing ability that you can't [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► like it [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► hundred-plus and I go back at that number you know there's all these stupid [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► limitations of real calculators were carried on exactly directly to computer [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► calculator perhaps to almost all of them are very few that have broken it and [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► where a soldier is like rethinking the entire way [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► rethinking what a calculator is because now its computer and you don't have to [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► do all that old crap that used to in there and you don't have a limitation [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► that used to have an excuse and gets in the way when it starts bringing in those [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► invitations unnecessarily yeah that's a good example says the guy who still [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► loves peek out but I agree with you disagree with you [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► but that's for me the reason and and the main reason that I i i agree is that if [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► I was doing something that would involve more than just one you know a couple of [TS]

00:43:29 ◼   ► digits multiplier something like that I probably would use salt silver instead [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► of precalc like for you know it's a neat middle ground between what what I might [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► have in the old days gone to a spreadsheet for as opposed to exactly [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► where that I just want to multiply two numbers together I'd still works [TS]

00:43:48 ◼   ► perfectly for me to pick out to create a good example to I think of where Apple's [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► going and why I don't think people who are worried about the fun or the [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► playfulness being taken out of the OS I think it's needless is if you go in load [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► apple.com and I think that these have been up for a couple of weeks out [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► obviously anybody listening to this show you're somehow this you know I can't do [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► it but if you go unload apple.com now in two different tabs wants to get the iPad [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► hero layout and wants to get the iPhone hero [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► you can see some of the apps third party apps that Apple is celebrating so on the [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► iPad 1 they've got two outs I'm not sure what the one on the right is it some [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► kind of photo app but it's mainly a big photo of a little girl playing in a [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► tender and the balloon or something like that but it's you know it's there [TS]

00:44:45 ◼   ► because it shows the color in the happy kid [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► but if you look at the elementary school gym parachutes yes I'm like that but if [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► you look at the UI around it though is no 3d depth to it looks good but it's [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► like just a translucent overlay to put text and some now very it is flat but [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► it's you know it's attractive and then the other app that they're showing [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► they're showing letterpress which again is not really flat it actually does she [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► and you could see it in the screenshot it does use depth when you play at I'll [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► it pops off the screen [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► three-dimensionally and you know so it's flat rice a flats not quite the right [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► word but famously it it's relatively unadorned and minimal but I think [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► anybody who's played letterpress would realize that it's it's a it's a very [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► playful and fun [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► interface it's you know it's perfectly appropriate for a game you know but in a [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► way that is not at all like you know Game Center visually [TS]

00:45:51 ◼   ► letterpress achieves a lot of fun and playfulness with with gesture response [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► and animations and you know that everything is very tactile and it can be [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► tactile without being without looking like a textured but you know something [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► is certainly there are some design challenges there with with usability and [TS]

00:46:09 ◼   ► getting people to figure out what's touchable what's draggable but adding [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► water presses is a great example to show that it can be done in the in the flat [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► aesthetic you know it can still be done and you know you don't have to make [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► everything look like a 3d textured button for people know that they can't [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► touch it and if you look at the iPhone hero its three apps they show one [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► built-in photo app and again i think thats just to put a photo up there [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► but you know not not a particularly school Norfolk design than the to third [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► party apps I don't know what the photo one is you know that is the Tumblr app [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► oh is it ok wow yeah so there you go I see I don't use that I didn't know and [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► then there's the its own notes note-taking app called catch that I [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► actually just checked out last week not entirely flat you know it's it's but it [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► is more flat done a lot of apps you know it's flatter maybe that's the better way [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► to describe like I think the trend it's not flat design it's not windows 8 style [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► completely flat no textures no gradients it's just glad ur here and looking at [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► the shot with which shows the issue is a full-screen photo in the in the camera [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► roll but with the toolbars showing and and so it has these like semi [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► transparent glossy toolbars overlaying this photo and to me that looks old like [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► that like I think I think we've seen for a while as though is that the default UI [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► kit styles are out of style and they've been holding on you know I was 6 did a [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► slight tweak they've been holding onto them still a bit too long but even like [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► if you go back to the iPad hero layout I think one of the reasons they didn't put [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► anything there that uses default which its is because you like it on the iPad [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► has always looked I didn't mean it's it's always been you know if if you use [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► the default UI kit navigation bars on top or if you use the default alerts [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► like it's always look like a scaled-up version of the iPhone is no it's never [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► really come into its own if you use the built-in stuff and a lot of it just i [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► think is ugly like 10 things I love most with doing the magazine's app was that I [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► finally could could really replace the popover chrome is that the default pop [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► over crime which has which has a border of a navy blue gradient thing you know [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► framing something with the deep shadow instead of the middle of it that should [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► always look like a hack and until iOS 6 you could not fully replace it I was 5 [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► you could change the current you're stuck with that weird inset shadow [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► and six you could finally hide the shadow also and and so you can fuck like [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► I think the popovers are some of the best looking for some of the best [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► looking interface however I've ever done because well I tried to limit it to [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► actually true and you know you're talking about the ones you get for the [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► footnotes for any pop over I replaced every popular in iowa and in the [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► magazine that for iPad in fact Michael with that was tonight show any default [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► chrome ever and the only time I do show default chrome is logging in to [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► Instapaper add some text inputs and an alert box if you do it wrong and then if [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► you if you subscribed and I have to show the system's in-app purchase dialogues [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► which looked completely out of place in the rest of the apt my goal there was [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► like to make this look well-designed I'm going to have the entire at just be [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► custom designed and that alone looks better than if he just uses the default [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► probably look look horrible I think it's a great design in the abstract I love [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► popovers as opposed to and I i've I think that the popover should be used a [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► lot more in iPhone apps not just iPad apps like me too I wish I could there's [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► there's tons of developers who have made their own pop over class for iPhone [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► because there because Apple's popular class only works on iPad when I think [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► that the iPhone maybe just because it's called phone I think maybe like back in [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► 2006 when they were cranking out and waiting on that initial design I think [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► they got to cut up thinking about it as a phone and in traditional phones every [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► time you got a new menu in new screen and everything [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► so many things are an entire screen and you go in and do it they just look at [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► like when you do talk a Bluetooth and you go to set a Bluetooth and you get an [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► entire new screen just for a checkbox to toggle Bluetooth now I i do think it's [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► important to have that checkbox bein nice big fat target like big 44 pixels [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► three dimensions myspace some friendly target but you know why not just a [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► popover that comes underneath it when you hit Bluetooth and settings that [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► would you know give you the check box yes I think I think this might change in [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► the future as phone screens get bigger yeah you know the iPhone 5 already gave [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► us tons and tons more real estate and then we'll see you know my prediction is [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► gonna have a bigger screen iPhone fairly soon [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► you know we'll see if that actually happens or not I think I think that the [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► hint that took it on the earnings call [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► sounds like it might be happening soon and you know I think as we see a mean [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► one of one of the great values of bigger screen devices including the crazy [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► fabric that everybody hates except for all the people who keep piling them [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► works as a lot of them one of the great things about them is that you can bring [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► you have more space to bring in some of the conveniences of tablets and tablet [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► interfaces and you know you aren't limited to just very very deep [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► navigation stacks of full-screen things are a little phone screen but to your [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► point from a guy do you think that the iPad has suffered all three years of its [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► life from having default default krone that really originates with the 2007 I [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► know yet the scales all wrong like like my I can't even look my the screenshots [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► of my first version of Instapaper for iPad are unbearable for me to see [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► because it was just blowing up the iPhone interface it was everything that [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► you would never do today if you were if you were just heading into it ever I did [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► everything wrong and that first version in half an iPad yet I just before anyone [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► had iPads so it would be there on day one and as soon as it was out of [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► realized oh man this is I got some work to do [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► I had forgotten that you're the guy who did Instapaper it's been so long I [TS]

00:52:48 ◼   ► totally forgot about that that the other weird thing about the evolution of iOS [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► over the years because now you know it's been six years right this is six years [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► since we've had the original iPhone is that if you compared to Mac OS 10 Mac OS [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► 10 has undergone numerous athletic weeks every you know two or three revisions [TS]

00:53:13 ◼   ► are so you know and it's slowly evolved what the default look and feel of the [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► system is every couple of years and has never gone this long not six years with [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► so many of the elements looking exactly the same and but if you look at the way [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► that like you know whenever there has been a visual refresh in Mac OS 10 like [TS]

00:53:36 ◼   ► the time that they got rid of brushed metal and just replaced everything with [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► you know that the non brushed metal windows the brush metal windows all of [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► them to all of a sudden looked exactly the same which is you know and in some [TS]

00:53:50 ◼   ► ways in terms of like the textures in the actual pixels you see on screen a [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► pretty that was a pretty major change but nobody who was a Mac user was lost [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► or confused or oh my god where is everything I don't know how to use my [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► computer like that's to me is what I think they're going to do with iOS 7 [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► like I don't think that's the other concern i've seen out there that all my [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► God my parents my just got my parents and iPhone last year and now they're [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► going to get an automatic upgrade Iowa seven and then they're gonna call me and [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► they can't find anything right I don't think it's going to be that type of I [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► don't think that's what they're working on at all I think it's like when they [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► change the way the windows look [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► costs 10 right right there still a red button up in a corner they used to close [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► the window you know there's still an Apple menu up in the top left corner [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► where you go to get to System Preferences stuff like that I think to [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► you know you can look at the trend that they've been doing with OS 10 design but [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► did not call anymore I still like all those tend to me it immediately it [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► emphasizes the word mac whereas otherwise with OS and iOS iOS is it the [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► middle of it and I it doesn't have to think about which one is wet right [TS]

00:55:10 ◼   ► anyway with with Mac OS 10 makin' brackets there I think the trend has [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► been very clearly towards less ornamentation the most part and and [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► making the default chrome be less visually noisy and make it making it [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► easier to ignore or forget about and iOS was started out being the complete [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► opposite of that with all these very heavy-handed visual crime as all the [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► defaults and so if you know as early as they move towards a more subtle default [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► look then you know people who who make custom design apps are still gonna make [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► very high personality designs that's not going to be a risk but it'll it'll just [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► make everything else a little bit less saccharin [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► yeah that's a good way to put it so I yeah I think we're on the same page in [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► terms of the scope of this sort of redesigning we're gonna see I don't [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► typically I i this is the last point on making this is I don't typically do that [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► game where you read into Apple's invitations the design of the invitation [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► and try to interpret that what it means about what they're going to announce [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► but I know a lot of people have taken this whole flat you I you know that [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► they're gonna get rid of this and then they look at the WWDC logo yeah and they [TS]

00:56:34 ◼   ► say that must be the direction they're going and maybe there's something to [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► that you know the one thing I notice with that it's a stack of these vibrant [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► primary color gels yeah like app shapes right though that the the Round Rock the [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► icons like if somebody cut out a Nikon shape out of lighting gels and stack [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► them up right but they're not you know there's no gloss on but there is death [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► right and there is translucency so I you know again I don't throw the baby out [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► with the bathwater I don't think that you know I really really would be [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► shocked if they went full on like like Windows 8 no depth chart me no i didnt i [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► didnt i didnt notice that until now but now that you mention looking and on the [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► corners unless I love you can see there is there are shadows between each layer [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► so it does show death that this isn't just a pile of of lighting gels are [TS]

00:57:30 ◼   ► better just flattened have no meaningful death this is a pile of suck it more [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► likely depress tiles right because they know it's a stack of things that have [TS]

00:57:36 ◼   ► some depth to them but the things themselves are flat interesting yeah it [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► really is an indicator I'm stealing from our friend Brad Ellis craig used user [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► interface designer now at Pacific but he is that line I've heard from him is [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► if you're gonna have something stacked visually on the easy access in your UI [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► and its gonna have a shadow it doesn't have to be four inches off the surface [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► like just just a tiny little bit goes a long way whereas it you know i think [TS]

00:58:12 ◼   ► that that original 2007 iOS designers everything if it's if it has a shadow [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► it's like four inches of shadow right exactly now and six actually made that [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► worse six made the shadow depth bigger on some things and even added shadows [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► where there weren't any before like under under navigation bars above [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► toolbars there's now a by default there's a shadow there and and before [TS]

00:58:35 ◼   ► sex that wasn't there [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► me take a take a break here in and thank our second sponsor our second sponsors [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► very interesting company transporter company name the product and company is [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► connected data and is a team you go to the website you can check it out they [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► they tell you this is the team that originally made the Drobo and what [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► they've done is they've they've the team that made the Drobo it's got together [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► and they've made it things it's a device you buy it is called the transporter the [TS]

00:59:08 ◼   ► physical device that you have in your hand but a hard-driving you connected to [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► the Internet and you sign up with transporter and that drive is accessible [TS]

00:59:20 ◼   ► any winner [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► so and and they'll say this to its not like I'm mentioning Dropbox and it's [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► it's own kuthe because you know sort of a computer competitor know they actually [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► it's sort of like having your own private Dropbox they sent me one as a [TS]

00:59:37 ◼   ► pet let me try it out and it works great [TS]

00:59:41 ◼   ► it's it's very simple to setup you buy it you just plug it in [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► you install the software on your computer and it's like you have your own [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► little private Dropbox and so instead of cloud access being the access is [TS]

00:59:55 ◼   ► everywhere and where is your stuff stored is I don't know it's out there [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► the where is my stuff stored is right here in you know where it is and so [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► there's a privacy layer and the cloud aspect that they've solved is punching a [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► hole through your local network to the Internet at large so that you can access [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► the stuff from anywhere and what you can also do is if you anybody else have you [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► sign up for their service you don't have to buy the transporter you can just go [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► to their website and sign up for an account once you're signed up I can [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► share stuff with you from my transporter and you can access it on a folder by [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► folder basis so I could just say just for this folder invite Marco and then [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► you're in and you can you can use it if you have a transporter yourself then [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► it'll also mirror it'll sync to your device the shared folder so that you'll [TS]

01:00:54 ◼   ► be faster if you to access when you're at home because it'll be right there on [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► your local network [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► if you have two of them you can mirror them so that you could say have one at [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► home and one at your office or one at your parents home or something like that [TS]

01:01:11 ◼   ► and it'll mirror both of them and it's effectively like backing up the data [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► that you have on one transporter will be exactly the same on the other one really [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► really simple the big pitch is that it's private because they don't have access [TS]

01:01:28 ◼   ► to any of your data your data is only stored on your actual transporter [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► devices which are completely under your control so for some people that might [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► just be personal privacy like stuff that you just don't want to put on Dropbox on [TS]

01:01:43 ◼   ► some kind of cloud-based service because you don't trust it or you know for [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► whatever reason for a lot of people though it's actually a legal type issue [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► if its medical data and stuff like that and you have these days lost to comply [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► with you have to have physical control of where the stuff is stored so you get [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► cloud style access from anywhere over the web or on your Mac or Windows [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► through the transporter software which you know put the folder right in your [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► binder [TS]

01:02:10 ◼   ► so you can see it on but you get the privacy of storing your data on your own [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► hard drive so it's really really interesting works great [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► they have apps for the iPad iPhone no surprise you can use it it's great for [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► stuff like storing and sharing photos all sorts of stuff like that and you get [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► to put your own hard drive in it so you can have as much data as you want this [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► big hard drives you can put in it as much data as as you can store it's [TS]

01:02:43 ◼   ► pretty cool very cool see what I like about this is that they they don't need [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► to like act in denial that Dropbox exists exactly a lot of things are like [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► you know you hear about something illegal water and I just use X you know [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► and and access better or free or whatever and in this case I think this [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► is like this is really concrete advantages over Dropbox and so they [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► don't they don't have to like hope you don't hear about Dropbox that's exactly [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► that's exactly why I brought it up let me tell you what to do to find out more [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► here's the URL it filed transporter dot com slash talk file transporter dot com [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► slash talk they have an overview video [TS]

01:03:27 ◼   ► good video it's very short but it really you know it it gives you the gist of [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► what the heck they're doing why you do it very very succinctly and they have [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► three different configs to buy and the first is when I was sort of going on [TS]

01:03:40 ◼   ► which is the zero terabyte model you supply any 2.5 inch drive at 299 bucks [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► but you could also if you want just save the hassle you can buy a one terabyte or [TS]

01:03:51 ◼   ► two terabyte version that will just ship with a drive already in it for [TS]

01:03:56 ◼   ► 299 or 399 respectively and the most important thing for listeners of this [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► show you can save 10% by using the discount code talk ta el que all lower [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► case after you select your model of transporter they want to buy so go there [TS]

01:04:18 ◼   ► if you're interested you want to buy one but your cart and use the discount code [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► talking you'll save 10% oh and the other thing I should definitely mentioned to [TS]

01:04:29 ◼   ► is it's sort of an apple like model where their business model is selling [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► used these transporters right you buy it you by the tank for 199 299 399 use the [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► code save 10% talk but there is no charge for the service you buy the thing [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► and then it just works and so if you want to share it like if you're sharing [TS]

01:04:49 ◼   ► with clients or friends or something like that who don't have a transporter [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► doesn't cost them any money to sign up for the service so there's no monthly [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► fee just buy the device and then you get to use it [TS]

01:05:01 ◼   ► my thanks to transporter first one tradition and see what else we got Winky [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► Winky apt as creepy as it sounds yet it isn't what it sounds like week is is a [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► nap somebody's developed for Google glass that lets you take photos by [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► winking so you don't have to say okay glass take a photo you your eye and it [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► starts snapping photos [TS]

01:05:28 ◼   ► you know i i think you can I mean I think every generation as we get older [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► looks at you know the new to the newest technology at some point in their lives [TS]

01:05:39 ◼   ► and says I don't understand why anybody would want that that's going to be so [TS]

01:05:44 ◼   ► problematic for our culture whatever and I and maybe this is my moment to do that [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► but I just can't understand Google S III don't understand why anybody would want [TS]

01:05:56 ◼   ► to wear them on their face all the time I don't understand why any [TS]

01:06:00 ◼   ► right-thinking person would trip would trust Google with all that extra data on [TS]

01:06:02 ◼   ► them [TS]

01:06:03 ◼   ► and I don't understand why Google thought it would be a good thing for [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► society and everybody started wearing these things and then there's so many [TS]

01:06:11 ◼   ► problems including the picture taken aspects of like you know that there's a [TS]

01:06:15 ◼   ► problem enough for you kind of don't know if someone's paying attention to [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► you even for looking right at you sort of end the secondary problem of like now [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► it's even easier than it was and it's we've already made it pretty easy as a [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► society to take photos and videos [TS]

01:06:29 ◼   ► covertly with our phones but now it's Google is trying to bring it even more [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► mainstream in a way that is even easier to take photos or videos of people [TS]

01:06:39 ◼   ► without their knowledge and and that's why I just think that's kind of creepy [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► in so many ways plus I mean you look ridiculous thing on but besides that I [TS]

01:06:49 ◼   ► think it's just it is kinda socially Canada gross I want to write about this [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► I have to get out of my system is sort of why I'm so down on Google class and [TS]

01:07:02 ◼   ► I'm not against heads-up displays in general right and I dot denying that [TS]

01:07:07 ◼   ► there's a bright future and that you know that amazing stuff is going to [TS]

01:07:12 ◼   ► happen in the next decade or two along the lines that this it's this particular [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► products in the current configuration that I just think is absurd [TS]

01:07:26 ◼   ► right and it gets back on if you listen to last week's show but like most [TS]

01:07:29 ◼   ► pointed out I wrote back in 2003 about the quote-unquote iPhone [TS]

01:07:35 ◼   ► and that I said it was like a New York Times story thats that claimed in 2003 [TS]

01:07:39 ◼   ► that Apple was working on a I think that they call the iPhone that ran a stripped [TS]

01:07:46 ◼   ► down version of Mac OS 10 involved apps like Sherlock and stuff like that and [TS]

01:07:51 ◼   ► then what they said was you know the article made it seem as though it was [TS]

01:07:55 ◼   ► something that might come out like next year and it wasn't true but that's [TS]

01:08:00 ◼   ► impossible there is no technology that would do it and I was right there was no [TS]

01:08:03 ◼   ► nomads lame right but it wasn't I didn't say that Apple would never be able to [TS]

01:08:09 ◼   ► make a device that would run a stripped down version of OS 10 and you know a [TS]

01:08:14 ◼   ► cell phone or something like that and that would have suffered like that what [TS]

01:08:18 ◼   ► I was saying was impossible was that in 2003 that was impossible and that they [TS]

01:08:23 ◼   ► weren't working on anything like that and in fact they weren't right it was [TS]

01:08:26 ◼   ► they were working on a tablet type thing like that thing that eventually became [TS]

01:08:29 ◼   ► the iPhone was in some level of work but there was more like a had the idea that [TS]

01:08:33 ◼   ► was like a tablet the story they said wasn't true in 2003 wasn't true it does [TS]

01:08:38 ◼   ► seem funny in hindsight though because that is actually what they ended up [TS]

01:08:41 ◼   ► doing for years later it's the same thing with Google glass where I'm not [TS]

01:08:46 ◼   ► denying that there won't be cool and maybe even possibly useful wearable had [TS]

01:08:52 ◼   ► said type things eventually but this one is not this one is is is it is [TS]

01:08:59 ◼   ► ridiculous [TS]

01:09:00 ◼   ► it looks stupid it's a medical device doesn't like some kind of like enhanced [TS]

01:09:07 ◼   ► hearing and visual aid but not in a text not in the tech way in a medical [TS]

01:09:12 ◼   ► assistance way or something that you might have to wear for certain jobs you [TS]

01:09:17 ◼   ► know inspecting a plane at the airport runway wearing when these things of the [TS]

01:09:24 ◼   ► clipboard and you're right and and and i cant even see that that there are used [TS]

01:09:30 ◼   ► to especially the camera part that if you even if you look stupid I could see [TS]

01:09:36 ◼   ► it how it for certain people it might be useful to have a stupid looking camera [TS]

01:09:40 ◼   ► that we're like this over your eyes [TS]

01:09:43 ◼   ► so that you can get first-person perspective while you do something where [TS]

01:09:47 ◼   ► you want your hands free right like say you can make like the one that Google [TS]

01:09:53 ◼   ► even made like if you're gonna take a video I you jump out of an airplane with [TS]

01:09:56 ◼   ► a parachute [TS]

01:09:57 ◼   ► well i i dont you don't have a camera in your hands that's for sure and you you [TS]

01:10:02 ◼   ► you you can look at aspects of this and you can say okay well the technology [TS]

01:10:06 ◼   ► will get better in area acts so you know that's not going to be a problem for law [TS]

01:10:10 ◼   ► and I think you can look at especially things like size and battery life [TS]

01:10:14 ◼   ► because I okay well those will get better over time it will get smaller it [TS]

01:10:19 ◼   ► will look sleeker the battery life will get longer but I think I think the [TS]

01:10:24 ◼   ► social aspects of it are the big long-term what the fuck moment and you [TS]

01:10:33 ◼   ► know I guess you know and again I'm I'm right there with you or maybe it's just [TS]

01:10:36 ◼   ► that we're tooled getting [TS]

01:10:39 ◼   ► gently and we just you know stuck in the mud and where you know already [TS]

01:10:44 ◼   ► old-fashioned cause I could see how if you know you went back to the eighties [TS]

01:10:49 ◼   ► and told somebody about how all of us have little pocket computers with 34 [TS]

01:10:54 ◼   ► inch screens that we checked all the time and go out to dinner and you go to [TS]

01:11:01 ◼   ► the bathroom I'm gonna get my phone out until you come back and say well that [TS]

01:11:06 ◼   ► sounds like hell on earth [TS]

01:11:08 ◼   ► of everybody you know always looking at these computer screens [TS]

01:11:13 ◼   ► whereas I see it as my god it's a relief from boredom right it's great guy died [TS]

01:11:18 ◼   ► 20 Mon I try never leave them at dinner with people I try never to be on my [TS]

01:11:22 ◼   ► phone while we're at the table together but if I'm out with one person and that [TS]

01:11:26 ◼   ► person gets up I usually take out my phone [TS]

01:11:31 ◼   ► yeah I do that and I can see how that's you know there's like a slope along the [TS]

01:11:39 ◼   ► lines of how far away is that from having your computer always in your [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► field of visual stream in your glasses that it's you know it's it's along the [TS]

01:11:48 ◼   ► same continue but to me that goes over this border that to me is just [TS]

01:11:53 ◼   ► ridiculous and you know we don't know how that's going to change over time [TS]

01:12:00 ◼   ► with generations and social stuff like I think there's this great video traffic [TS]

01:12:05 ◼   ► think it might have been by Dan Savage maybe I have to find it and put it in [TS]

01:12:13 ◼   ► your show notes but there is a free video where this guy was talking about I [TS]

01:12:18 ◼   ► think it was back with the the governor senator Weiner whatever it was he said [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► his pictures of his junk to people and they got out he was congressional [TS]

01:12:29 ◼   ► representative from new york new york city so there is a big deal about that [TS]

01:12:36 ◼   ► and and there it here in this video about it afterwards [TS]

01:12:39 ◼   ► continue to somewhere I gotta find it I think it's Dan Savage but I'm not [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► positive on that and and he basically said like you know yet today our [TS]

01:12:48 ◼   ► politicians are so afraid of pictures of their junk getting out that you know if [TS]

01:12:54 ◼   ► if it does happen then you're like well you know that's pictures of someone's [TS]

01:12:58 ◼   ► junk you know i i dont know you know try to deny it and at some point the tide [TS]

01:13:04 ◼   ► will change socially because everyone's having picture of their junk all over [TS]

01:13:07 ◼   ► the place especially if your honor and sending it all over the place I'm so [TS]

01:13:11 ◼   ► glad to know that this did not exist when I was younger [TS]

01:13:14 ◼   ► and eventually you know a politician can get up there and say yeah that's my job [TS]

01:13:20 ◼   ► you know of course we who cares [TS]

01:13:22 ◼   ► eventually the times will shift in in social tolerance of certain things that [TS]

01:13:28 ◼   ► that it will become normal and so I think with with my concerns with Google [TS]

01:13:36 ◼   ► glass of like it kind of sucks when you when you can't tell someone's looking at [TS]

01:13:40 ◼   ► a screen overlaid over your face or looking at you and it kind of sucks if [TS]

01:13:44 ◼   ► everyone can be taking pictures or video all the time and you can you can't even [TS]

01:13:47 ◼   ► tell if they're doing it or not you know all those things make me nervous but [TS]

01:13:53 ◼   ► having a cell phone in my pocket that can take a quick picture video makes [TS]

01:13:58 ◼   ► other people nervous especially older people into in other contexts [TS]

01:14:02 ◼   ► you know it's like everything we're doing is adding more things that make [TS]

01:14:06 ◼   ► people uncomfortable who are older or who are more conservative and we keep [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► pushing that boundary back in all these other ways we've been pushing it back [TS]

01:14:15 ◼   ► for four decades so maybe this is just the next step of that but I don't know I [TS]

01:14:20 ◼   ► i this this to me seems like a cross a line that that shouldn't be crossed and [TS]

01:14:26 ◼   ► I think we'd actually be worse off at that line was crossed but I don't know [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► why people are exactly the thing about camera phones yeah probably you know I [TS]

01:14:36 ◼   ► see my difference but that is and what's his name I don't know his name is the [TS]

01:14:41 ◼   ► guy who writes the OS news site [TS]

01:14:43 ◼   ► Tom hole where do Thoi you do you know who I'm talking about another site [TS]

01:14:50 ◼   ► Twitter reply to me yesterday after I had linked to the winky app and and and [TS]

01:14:59 ◼   ► my my only comment was fake quote from a hypothetical glass users ok glass led to [TS]

01:15:06 ◼   ► be creepy [TS]

01:15:08 ◼   ► and his Twitter thing was oh come on like because he's a he's have huge glass [TS]

01:15:14 ◼   ► enthusiasts he's super excited about class and and thinks that I am being [TS]

01:15:19 ◼   ► either like a pollyanna or some combination of a prude and a if it isn't [TS]

01:15:29 ◼   ► from Apple it's crap zealot which the Pollyanna part the approved part maybe [TS]

01:15:37 ◼   ► is true that's what we're talking about the apartment I would be so depressed if [TS]

01:15:41 ◼   ► Apple came out with Google Glasses exactly like this I would think I would [TS]

01:15:46 ◼   ► then thats in some sense it would be great then I got talked about this [TS]

01:15:49 ◼   ► before because man I nothing would be better for my reputation than for me to [TS]

01:15:54 ◼   ► have something to really dig into it just ripped apart on you know I don't do [TS]

01:16:00 ◼   ► it because they haven't released anything that i think is terrible you [TS]

01:16:03 ◼   ► know but they haven't even smaller for the iPod hi-fi was a massive flock but [TS]

01:16:10 ◼   ► who cares it was a speaker dock you know one it wasn't like a big PR problem for [TS]

01:16:14 ◼   ► them to speaker dock that was actually a pretty decent speaker dock just too [TS]

01:16:18 ◼   ► expensive but the difference and the difference in his reply me was so come [TS]

01:16:26 ◼   ► on like nobody's taken as a surreptitious picture before [TS]

01:16:31 ◼   ► like it's not happening all the time now and that is true people do sneak photos [TS]

01:16:34 ◼   ► you know and and you can be creepy by taking photos with your phone now but [TS]

01:16:41 ◼   ► there's a physical there are physical limitations to it right [TS]

01:16:44 ◼   ► like you you you have to be sly about it so yes somebody could take a picture of [TS]

01:16:49 ◼   ► you you know if you know some place where you don't want to be photographed [TS]

01:16:54 ◼   ► in you don't know it you may not notice them doing it you know [TS]

01:16:59 ◼   ► presumably you know especially if the flashes off on the computer obvious are [TS]

01:17:02 ◼   ► on the camera obviously but they have to be still have to work at it it's not [TS]

01:17:07 ◼   ► there [TS]

01:17:08 ◼   ► strapped to their forehead always constantly like I don't find it so [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► uncomfortable if I went out to dinner and somebody just had their phone up you [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► know in a position that looked like it was filming a video of the entire meal [TS]

01:17:25 ◼   ► and I don't know if they're exactly I don't know if they're doing it or not [TS]

01:17:28 ◼   ► but they're holding it up the entire time will tell me that's what it'd be [TS]

01:17:30 ◼   ► like going out to dinner with scoville with his glasses on glass on I guess I [TS]

01:17:37 ◼   ► have to say I think also it's worth considering if you are a user of Google [TS]

01:17:46 ◼   ► glass you know do you want Google getting all the information from your [TS]

01:17:51 ◼   ► face all the time right [TS]

01:17:53 ◼   ► you know do you want Google to know that you can look at the waitresses but and [TS]

01:17:58 ◼   ► what are they gonna do with that information like it there in advertising [TS]

01:18:00 ◼   ► there's people people think Google just does some of the stuff for the fun of [TS]

01:18:05 ◼   ► doing it and and some of the projects do seem like they're just kind of [TS]

01:18:08 ◼   ► engineering for fun although since Google+ come out on the company's focus [TS]

01:18:12 ◼   ► has been shifted you could help us be lessened in the company but at the end [TS]

01:18:17 ◼   ► of the day they gotta make this a business somehow to make it work with [TS]

01:18:19 ◼   ► the rest of their businesses and the way they're going to do that in all [TS]

01:18:23 ◼   ► likelihood is high time this an extremely deeply with everything they [TS]

01:18:29 ◼   ► know about you which is their business their business is to know as much as [TS]

01:18:32 ◼   ► they possibly can about you so they can charge more for the ads shown to you and [TS]

01:18:38 ◼   ► so when you look at it from that perspective [TS]

01:18:41 ◼   ► it just feels kind of dirty like we do I really wanted to go to know like every [TS]

01:18:47 ◼   ► minute of every day of my life what I'm doing [TS]

01:18:50 ◼   ► you know it's bad enough that I'm carrying a phone in my pocket right now [TS]

01:18:53 ◼   ► if you have an Android phone [TS]

01:18:55 ◼   ► they can already do quite a lot of that stuff today but it's it's different when [TS]

01:19:00 ◼   ► it's your face you know when your phone is this thing you can kind of put away [TS]

01:19:04 ◼   ► and and technology is such that phones can't really afford the battery problems [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► of keeping GPS on all the time so they only start like live tracking you [TS]

01:19:14 ◼   ► precisely yet but who knows in the future like you know there was a thing [TS]

01:19:20 ◼   ► this week with the Google now a burning battery time and that's exactly what I [TS]

01:19:24 ◼   ► was perfectly into the next thing well and there's a thing that there's a I'm [TS]

01:19:31 ◼   ► not even sure I completely understand the why of it like and the way that [TS]

01:19:37 ◼   ► knowing your location [TS]

01:19:39 ◼   ► helps Google's Sergey you ads and stuff better and spite of it obviously is not [TS]

01:19:44 ◼   ► even about advertising are creeping in really is an and you know this is why I [TS]

01:19:49 ◼   ► think it is so insidious because there's obviously usefulness to it where you [TS]

01:19:57 ◼   ► know in theory if they know where you are and you say hey I'm hungry and I'm [TS]

01:20:03 ◼   ► in the mood for pizza but I don't you know this is not familiar with this [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► neighborhood it's useful if they know where you are and can say you know [TS]

01:20:10 ◼   ► there's a well-regarded Pizza Place two blocks over to the left right and you [TS]

01:20:17 ◼   ► know and if they know even more about you and they know and you've you have [TS]

01:20:22 ◼   ► you know [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► Google+ the pizza restaurants that you've been to in the past and said I [TS]

01:20:32 ◼   ► like this one and I don't like that one that they can if they have millions of [TS]

01:20:36 ◼   ► users that they can correlate all of that and say given the type of pizza [TS]

01:20:39 ◼   ► that you've said you've liked before in the ones you've said you don't like this [TS]

01:20:44 ◼   ► is almost certainly a pizza place that you're going to like and that if it's [TS]

01:20:47 ◼   ► accurate and it works thats that is I do understand that is useful right that's [TS]

01:20:51 ◼   ► the whole program Google argument right well as useful sometimes you know it's [TS]

01:20:55 ◼   ► it's useful when you have purchasing intent and and so if you think about [TS]

01:21:01 ◼   ► these these examples and which people you know and that makes sense you think [TS]

01:21:05 ◼   ► the examples of where should I go eat pizza right now you know you have [TS]

01:21:09 ◼   ► purchasing intent and that's what this is Seth Godin to talk about this a while [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► ago as a video of it online somewhere but there is you know that's what Google [TS]

01:21:16 ◼   ► and our advertising model excels at and that's why Facebook's advertising model [TS]

01:21:20 ◼   ► sucks [TS]

01:21:21 ◼   ► advertising model excels at that because it's a really easy to sell ads against [TS]

01:21:26 ◼   ► purchasing intent if you're searching for something like what kind of coffee [TS]

01:21:30 ◼   ► maker 222 get from my office then that's a great place for not only Google to [TS]

01:21:36 ◼   ► recommend things to you based on our audit has from you know Yelper user [TS]

01:21:39 ◼   ► reviews or whatever but they can also then integrate ads really well into that [TS]

01:21:43 ◼   ► in a way that the ads are not trying to distract you the ads are actually [TS]

01:21:46 ◼   ► possibly helpful to you and same thing with you know that's why that's why [TS]

01:21:50 ◼   ► local search matter so much to them because it's the same kind of thing [TS]

01:21:54 ◼   ► where if you are looking for a pizza place around you that's a great time for [TS]

01:21:59 ◼   ► Google to not only use of this data they know about you to give you better [TS]

01:22:03 ◼   ► recommendations but then for them through them to be able to go and sell [TS]

01:22:07 ◼   ► that to the advertisers them to go to that local advertising for local [TS]

01:22:10 ◼   ► advertisers to be able to say I'll pay you a dollar fifty to put my ad on top [TS]

01:22:13 ◼   ► of a box around it and so it all those contexts that's great it's great for [TS]

01:22:20 ◼   ► Google and actually is kind of helpful for the user at those times the problem [TS]

01:22:25 ◼   ► is all the other times when you don't have a purchasing intent or when you're [TS]

01:22:29 ◼   ► doing something that is not commercial nature or that you don't think of US [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► commercial in nature [TS]

01:22:34 ◼   ► and that kind of surprise you with either an ad that you weren't expecting [TS]

01:22:38 ◼   ► or a surprise you with knowledge that they have that you didn't think they had [TS]

01:22:44 ◼   ► about you are you did or what you intend and that's when it that's when it gets [TS]

01:22:48 ◼   ► creepy yeah and you know and amy has run into this recently where she's noticed [TS]

01:22:54 ◼   ► and she's you know caught my attention to it with her computer where it like [TS]

01:23:00 ◼   ► she should have searched for and who knows even if it's Google you know I [TS]

01:23:05 ◼   ► don't even know my beats or some other similar type aggregate collection of [TS]

01:23:10 ◼   ► stuff we're like she's searched for product acts like four days ago and now [TS]

01:23:17 ◼   ► she's on this other website that isn't even related to that product and here [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► are ads for exactly what she was searching for four days ago right and [TS]

01:23:27 ◼   ► not like a general audience they maybe it was definitely not a coincidence [TS]

01:23:29 ◼   ► right and it the the result is not all yeah I should buy that the result is I [TS]

01:23:35 ◼   ► am creeped out and I'm gonna tell my husband and and you know this is [TS]

01:23:42 ◼   ► freaking me out right it is creepy and that to me is where I see that Google [TS]

01:23:47 ◼   ► and you know I really do think Google has has shifted over the second half of [TS]

01:23:52 ◼   ► its life like in the first couple of years of its life is it just seemed [TS]

01:23:56 ◼   ► amazing and helpful and in the second half of its life and especially i think [TS]

01:24:01 ◼   ► even I think Eric Schmidt is a pretty creepy guy and I think it's really [TS]

01:24:06 ◼   ► accelerated those since Larry Page took over as CEO it really accelerates its [TS]

01:24:11 ◼   ► Facebook really you know since becoming obvious threat to many of their core [TS]

01:24:17 ◼   ► market yeah you know I think that really is the guy I think you know again [TS]

01:24:21 ◼   ► correlation is not causation but boy the correlation is very strong that when [TS]

01:24:26 ◼   ► Facebook got big and if and when it became clear that Facebook was not the [TS]

01:24:32 ◼   ► next myspace but was going to be a stand-alone thing and you know they're [TS]

01:24:37 ◼   ► not gonna be acquired their Dave reach the critical mass where there were gonna [TS]

01:24:40 ◼   ► IPO which was far in advance of you know years in advance of when they actually [TS]

01:24:45 ◼   ► did IPO like it was a long you know there are a couple of years there where [TS]

01:24:49 ◼   ► it was clear that Facebook was going to eventually IPO and nope you know Google [TS]

01:24:53 ◼   ► wasn't gonna have a chance to buy facebook that's when they it does seem [TS]

01:24:58 ◼   ► like that they really had like a freak out and have really gotten creepy about [TS]

01:25:03 ◼   ► the personal stuff and any end and so it all goes back to the location where I [TS]

01:25:08 ◼   ► mean not all but in terms of what we're talking about here is that they really [TS]

01:25:12 ◼   ► wanna know where you are like all day every day and I find that in the context [TS]

01:25:19 ◼   ► of everything else Google is doing very very disturbing and it it I think it's [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► actually the route I think you know in terms of their desire to know where you [TS]

01:25:30 ◼   ► are [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► i think is the entire reason that Apple maps exists [TS]

01:25:36 ◼   ► oh yeah definitely you know and I feel like everybody has this why and you know [TS]

01:25:41 ◼   ► and and it's held up as you know that criticism of Tim Cook as a as a CEO and [TS]

01:25:45 ◼   ► that Apple you know it's it's all of this story is [TS]

01:25:49 ◼   ► these you know hey Apple has had a rough patch Apple's doing poorly inevitably [TS]

01:25:53 ◼   ► they bring up Apple maps and that Apple maps is a disaster should show and it's [TS]

01:25:58 ◼   ► you know terrible and inexplicable what's not inexplicable I think it's [TS]

01:26:03 ◼   ► that Google and some of this actually knows that google 22 up the offering in [TS]

01:26:10 ◼   ► terms of the getting the vector maps instead of the bitmap map tiles and turn [TS]

01:26:17 ◼   ► by turn direction for driving which was sorely missing from from iOS that they [TS]

01:26:22 ◼   ► wanted they were you know their deal was that if you want that from us you've [TS]

01:26:27 ◼   ► gotta let us let people sign in to their Google account and you know and that'll [TS]

01:26:32 ◼   ► let us track their location through their iPhone through the built-in maps [TS]

01:26:37 ◼   ► functionality the ties to our maps and Apple was not willing to budge on it and [TS]

01:26:42 ◼   ► so they were so unwilling to budge on that in terms of the privacy [TS]

01:26:45 ◼   ► implications that they went ahead and shipped a map service that they you know [TS]

01:26:51 ◼   ► and I know that I think it's probably a little bit worse than expected in terms [TS]

01:26:54 ◼   ► of the reaction but I think that they knew that it wasn't gonna be it wasn't [TS]

01:26:59 ◼   ► going to be as good as Google Maps and they did it anyway for the privacy [TS]

01:27:05 ◼   ► reasons I don't for some reason Apple it's very very clear to everyone where [TS]

01:27:12 ◼   ► they make their money so its most people don't ascribe weird motivations to [TS]

01:27:17 ◼   ► Apple's business decisions usually just well okay they want to charge more for [TS]

01:27:21 ◼   ► that or they want you to buy this thing but yet with Google it seems like most [TS]

01:27:26 ◼   ► people just kind of given in the past especially especially nerves cuz you [TS]

01:27:30 ◼   ► know that Google did have a very long period where they really did things that [TS]

01:27:34 ◼   ► really appealed to people like us you know that the first half of the life [TS]

01:27:38 ◼   ► they really really appeal to people like us because they were an energy company [TS]

01:27:42 ◼   ► doing dirty things and with seemingly little care about making money because [TS]

01:27:47 ◼   ► they own the online ad business pretty early on in their lifetime [TS]

01:27:52 ◼   ► especially the search and business at least not not display ads for a while [TS]

01:27:55 ◼   ► but they own the search and business pretty quickly and they were making tons [TS]

01:28:01 ◼   ► of money [TS]

01:28:01 ◼   ► and so it was easy to stay in that kind of small geeky engineering German spirit [TS]

01:28:06 ◼   ► and keep making things that endeared them to us but now that spirits been [TS]

01:28:13 ◼   ► gone for a couple of years at least probably longer than that certainly it [TS]

01:28:19 ◼   ► that's the spirit is certainly not there at the moment and and I think you can [TS]

01:28:23 ◼   ► look at that honestly and say well okay they you know they grew up they they had [TS]

01:28:28 ◼   ► to make a lot of these moves but so many people in our circles or so many nerds [TS]

01:28:34 ◼   ► like us still kinda give them a pass on their motivations and why they are doing [TS]

01:28:39 ◼   ► things and where the money is going to come from it's not that they look at [TS]

01:28:43 ◼   ► what Google is doing and say I'm ok with that case that they don't even think [TS]

01:28:47 ◼   ► about in their mind like wait so what what's the motivation for doing this you [TS]

01:28:50 ◼   ► know what's in it for them here how are they going to pay for this [TS]

01:28:53 ◼   ► etcetera and so Google can can be doing some pretty creepy or questionable [TS]

01:28:59 ◼   ► things and get relatively little skepticism or relatively little scrutiny [TS]

01:29:04 ◼   ► I should say from the audience [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► yeah in a way that like Facebook doesn't because Facebook has somehow like the [TS]

01:29:13 ◼   ► initial first impression of them was that there were counted do these sort of [TS]

01:29:19 ◼   ► things right and I think you know to be fair I think face because it's pretty [TS]

01:29:22 ◼   ► creepy overall as well and and what you know Facebook one of the design [TS]

01:29:28 ◼   ► challenges faced because I always had and you you can see this failed a few [TS]

01:29:32 ◼   ► times on this is that Facebook and Google the same way date they both have [TS]

01:29:37 ◼   ► enough data on you that if you knew what they knew you'd be creeped out and so [TS]

01:29:42 ◼   ► they always have to you cannot hide what they know or use restraint in designing [TS]

01:29:47 ◼   ► new features a design the interface that things are designing how they reveal [TS]

01:29:50 ◼   ► what they know about you to avoid creeping you out with data they already [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► have or or inferences they can already draw about you and like I i heard [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► have or or inferences they can already draw about you and like I i heard [TS]

01:30:00 ◼   ► something like you know Facebook can tell when you're on a break up with your [TS]

01:30:02 ◼   ► girlfriend like before you can you know there's like all sorts of things like [TS]

01:30:07 ◼   ► that there's like Facebook knows a lot about you but it in the recent history [TS]

01:30:13 ◼   ► rubles been kinda pushing into social so hard I think we've seen a pretty clear [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► pattern that while they both have enough data on you to appear quite creepy if [TS]

01:30:21 ◼   ► they do it wrong [TS]

01:30:23 ◼   ► Facebook is generally a little bit better at avoiding that problem faced [TS]

01:30:27 ◼   ► because a little bit better at designing in such a way that doesn't feel as [TS]

01:30:30 ◼   ► creepy as as it really is a Google is not quite get that you had a dream where [TS]

01:30:39 ◼   ► they really want to know where you are they really totally using Google Apps [TS]

01:30:43 ◼   ► the new Google app now so it's not it's not called the features called Google [TS]

01:30:48 ◼   ► now but the new feature on iOS is just in the Google app it's just in the [TS]

01:30:52 ◼   ► regular which originally was just a way to do Google searches and but you open [TS]

01:30:57 ◼   ► it up and if your knots or even if you are signed in [TS]

01:31:00 ◼   ► there's a big button at the bottom that says location services off like and they [TS]

01:31:07 ◼   ► don't let you use I think some of them a lot of the now features unless you turn [TS]

01:31:12 ◼   ► location on and I realized and and it seems to me and some of them obviously [TS]

01:31:16 ◼   ► require location but I think the thing that's weird though is that it by [TS]

01:31:22 ◼   ► default if you turn location on its not just for this get back to your thing [TS]

01:31:28 ◼   ► about Lake Seth Godin think about when you're in the mood to buy something yet [TS]

01:31:33 ◼   ► like it's like person tent or a permission-based marketing right it's [TS]

01:31:36 ◼   ► it's it's not just when you're asking for something you know and if I'm asking [TS]

01:31:41 ◼   ► for pizza now will now we need your location to see where you are and will [TS]

01:31:46 ◼   ► give you the recommendation because that's what you're looking for is that [TS]

01:31:49 ◼   ► they want to know where you are all throughout the day where you've been [TS]

01:31:53 ◼   ► right and that to me is the difference that's like the line that I i very [TS]

01:31:58 ◼   ► comfortable with and so I don't have it [TS]

01:32:01 ◼   ► location turned on in my Google App you know there's a huge difference between [TS]

01:32:06 ◼   ► granting them permission to your location right now when I'm asking where [TS]

01:32:11 ◼   ► can I get coffee vs granting them permission to track me throughout the [TS]

01:32:16 ◼   ► day and one thing to that you know iOS is always kind of felt like a safe place [TS]

01:32:21 ◼   ► to experiment with new apps because after so heavily sand box and restricted [TS]

01:32:25 ◼   ► with what they can do and and you know when they can run even its iOS is lack [TS]

01:32:32 ◼   ► of of fully permission to background modes for apps where you can run in the [TS]

01:32:36 ◼   ► background indefinitely doing anything you want I was lack of that and all the [TS]

01:32:42 ◼   ► heavy sandboxing makes it ok as a consumer to say you know what I can try [TS]

01:32:46 ◼   ► this Google app even though I don't really love Google you know that much I [TS]

01:32:49 ◼   ► don't trust them to to know everything about me I can launch this happen when [TS]

01:32:52 ◼   ► I'm done with it I can shutdown that's it I'm good and you aren't you aren't [TS]

01:32:58 ◼   ► surprised a month later to learn that it's been running in the background for [TS]

01:33:02 ◼   ► a month or knows everything everywhere have gone for the last month right you [TS]

01:33:05 ◼   ► know I was by design kind of limits that but location services are an exception [TS]

01:33:11 ◼   ► and and I hope everything you want to recap the well you can ok so basically [TS]

01:33:17 ◼   ► comes out everyone's reporting massive drops of battery life when it's on and [TS]

01:33:23 ◼   ► Google issued a statement basically saying we don't constantly monitor the [TS]

01:33:26 ◼   ► location so therefore you're all wrong and batteries finally tested but it [TS]

01:33:30 ◼   ► seems pretty universal from almost everybody using it that it is indeed [TS]

01:33:33 ◼   ► doing bad things to battery life and I think it's important from you the [TS]

01:33:37 ◼   ► developer clarify what is out there doing because when you before you do [TS]

01:33:41 ◼   ► that this is just reiterate that I'm always a little suspicious of when when [TS]

01:33:47 ◼   ► software updates come out and there's vague arguments that hey this you know [TS]

01:33:52 ◼   ► the iOS 4.1 point whatever is killing my battery [TS]

01:33:55 ◼   ► and it wasn't before and a lot of times when this happens it just seems like [TS]

01:33:59 ◼   ► whenever any new software comes out somebody has something wrong with the [TS]

01:34:02 ◼   ► battery and false you know they they is a correlation causation thing when I [TS]

01:34:07 ◼   ► just upgraded to this thing so that must be the reason and it doesn't seem to be [TS]

01:34:10 ◼   ► a lot of any kind of cause and effect proof whereas with this Google now thing [TS]

01:34:15 ◼   ► it's a lot of people telling the exact same story which is that I upgraded to [TS]

01:34:21 ◼   ► the new Google app my battery life went to complete shed I uninstalled the [TS]

01:34:26 ◼   ► Google app and my battery life going back to expect and Google and then we're [TS]

01:34:31 ◼   ► not as the Google is really [TS]

01:34:33 ◼   ► adamantly saying no not us and I can't help but think that it's a effectively a [TS]

01:34:38 ◼   ► please don't turn off location right so here's here's what I'm thinking here I [TS]

01:34:44 ◼   ► don't I haven't used the app so I can confirm this and we'll have a chat room [TS]

01:34:47 ◼   ► so they can confirm either and you don't have a location services you can compare [TS]

01:34:50 ◼   ► me there are no more research on this beforehand but oh well there are three [TS]

01:34:56 ◼   ► different ways you can track location and iOS with very very different battery [TS]

01:35:00 ◼   ► applications one of them is full on GPS tracking we are continuously track my [TS]

01:35:06 ◼   ► location so you pretty much only need that if you do let me turn by turn [TS]

01:35:08 ◼   ► navigation app or something like that that destroys the battery as you have [TS]

01:35:13 ◼   ► the GPS radio running constantly itself is a huge battery battery drain + your [TS]

01:35:18 ◼   ► app is running constantly so any processing you're doing you know if the [TS]

01:35:22 ◼   ► user has something else in the foreground you have two apps being fully [TS]

01:35:24 ◼   ► active so that that destroyed better life as anyone knows if you've ever done [TS]

01:35:28 ◼   ► to my turn even with Apple's own stuff you know [TS]

01:35:31 ◼   ► constant GPS fixes are very very expensive for the battery life and [TS]

01:35:36 ◼   ► Google says they're not doing that great that's fine I believe them they don't [TS]

01:35:40 ◼   ► need to be doing that but on the other end there's the geofence which is what I [TS]

01:35:46 ◼   ► did it with Instapaper to do the background update when you cross a [TS]

01:35:50 ◼   ► certain threshold news dot me actually invented that it's funny actually the [TS]

01:35:54 ◼   ► guy who invented a new date me is now working on Instapaper app it works I [TS]

01:35:59 ◼   ► stole the speech of moment and now he now it's great it's like if you steal [TS]

01:36:04 ◼   ► something [TS]

01:36:04 ◼   ► from somebody and you keep it and then you get married to that person when I [TS]

01:36:09 ◼   ► would expect the joint property exactly so anyway so it's a feature where you [TS]

01:36:17 ◼   ► can end and their various reminders apps have this too including apples and [TS]

01:36:20 ◼   ► almost every to-do list has this kind of thing where you can you can say wake up [TS]

01:36:25 ◼   ► my app when you enter or leave this particular set of radii and points so [TS]

01:36:32 ◼   ► you can see like you know when it when I leave my house by more than 80 metres [TS]

01:36:37 ◼   ► wake up my app and so it kind of looks like a border crossing things like [TS]

01:36:42 ◼   ► sometimes I don't call but it's it's a very low-power way to monitor for [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► locations and and the phone and the radios are optimized to make this very [TS]

01:36:51 ◼   ► very low power and I believe it only is the radios and doesn't even turn on the [TS]

01:36:54 ◼   ► GPS chip at all [TS]

01:36:55 ◼   ► yeah it's it's a loose enough offense where I can for example can't use it to [TS]

01:37:02 ◼   ► remind me to buy stuff at the supermarket because the supermarket is [TS]

01:37:06 ◼   ► about two and a half block from my house and then goes off it goes off at home [TS]

01:37:11 ◼   ► yes two and a half blocks in his way to class so I can use any critically if [TS]

01:37:17 ◼   ► you're using the geofence API you can only monitor to 10 locations at once so [TS]

01:37:22 ◼   ► you can't just say you know notify wake up my apt free to do whatever I want [TS]

01:37:27 ◼   ► every time you moved 10 feet you know that's that's different so there is not [TS]

01:37:32 ◼   ► an NGO fencing doesn't have much of an effect on battery life because it's not [TS]

01:37:36 ◼   ► really keeping the radios on more than they otherwise would be on if you have [TS]

01:37:40 ◼   ► cell service so it's really it's almost free and if you have your fencing active [TS]

01:37:45 ◼   ► in an app you'll see the location services arrow just as an outline in the [TS]

01:37:49 ◼   ► status bar will be the solid white it'll be just the outline of white around it [TS]

01:37:52 ◼   ► indicates something is using geo fencing but the battery life for that is pretty [TS]

01:37:56 ◼   ► much free because again you like you are waking up at often and you aren't using [TS]

01:38:03 ◼   ► any you are using GPS radio no radios are more active than they otherwise [TS]

01:38:06 ◼   ► would have been but [TS]

01:38:08 ◼   ► what Google's probably doing with the Google now app is the significant [TS]

01:38:12 ◼   ► location change service which I believe it uses the same radios and the same [TS]

01:38:18 ◼   ► method of monitoring location as Gio fencing so it's not using the GPS chip [TS]

01:38:23 ◼   ► so that when they say we are not consumers you track your location that [TS]

01:38:27 ◼   ► is technically correct but if what they're doing with that information is [TS]

01:38:33 ◼   ► waking up the app every time you move like a hundred feet if the abbot woken [TS]

01:38:39 ◼   ► up on every single one of their doing some processing and possibly sending [TS]

01:38:42 ◼   ► your new approximate location to a server then that's keeping other parts [TS]

01:38:48 ◼   ► of the phone [TS]

01:38:48 ◼   ► lead busier than they otherwise would have been even if it's not using the GPS [TS]

01:38:51 ◼   ► chip it is at least using data radios its transmitting things including the [TS]

01:38:56 ◼   ► CPU so that is probably to call if I had to guess having not run this by myself I [TS]

01:39:02 ◼   ► would guess they're doing that service which they can say technically is not [TS]

01:39:06 ◼   ► continuous tracking by Apple's definition it's not continuous tracking [TS]

01:39:09 ◼   ► its not using the GPS chip but if they're waking up the app constantly [TS]

01:39:14 ◼   ► every time you go anywhere it's gonna destroy your battery life no question I [TS]

01:39:16 ◼   ► wonder too then if it therefore it's also true that it doesn't destroy the [TS]

01:39:20 ◼   ► battery for everybody [TS]

01:39:22 ◼   ► which i think if that were the case is shipped it it's maybe its people [TS]

01:39:26 ◼   ► affecting people who who move a bit you know he said 150 200 feet but like me [TS]

01:39:33 ◼   ► who wakes up makes a pot of coffee in sits down in a chair for eight hours [TS]

01:39:38 ◼   ► maybe wouldn't trigger it but somebody like a college student who's going [TS]

01:39:43 ◼   ► between buildings all day or somebody who works at work in a big office [TS]

01:39:48 ◼   ► officers can be hundreds of feet long you know it's it's pretty easy to [TS]

01:39:51 ◼   ► trigger trigger changes with just walking on your own office at exactly [TS]

01:39:54 ◼   ► going to meetings are going you know walking to the restaurant [TS]

01:39:58 ◼   ► going to the review go to eat lunch etc etc [TS]

01:40:01 ◼   ► exactly right you might be gauging this you know once an hour or something like [TS]

01:40:05 ◼   ► that and driving the phone and and if that is what they're doing that I think [TS]

01:40:10 ◼   ► it is a little bit disingenuous to say we are tracking application constantly [TS]

01:40:15 ◼   ► right or imagine imagine what would happen in that case on a commute right [TS]

01:40:18 ◼   ► if you have an hour drive to work [TS]

01:40:21 ◼   ► yeah that's basically running constantly and if they are submitting that to a [TS]

01:40:24 ◼   ► server or saving that information in any way every time they get woken up for a [TS]

01:40:28 ◼   ► quote significant location change then I would say they are continuously tracking [TS]

01:40:33 ◼   ► you just not very precisely but its precise enough to get to know what [TS]

01:40:38 ◼   ► neighborhood you're in and it'll tell them that they will tell them you know [TS]

01:40:41 ◼   ► what what restaurants and and subways you're near you know that it's a it's [TS]

01:40:46 ◼   ► precisely for that kind of use its you know within a few hundred feet as [TS]

01:40:51 ◼   ► opposed to whatever GPS's like 3 feet you know it's it's very very percentage [TS]

01:40:55 ◼   ► for advertising purposes and the bottom line is that as this Abbas evolve the [TS]

01:41:01 ◼   ► Google app and Google now is just with the locations of his latest part of the [TS]

01:41:06 ◼   ► app is almost all of the new stuff requires you to be signed into your [TS]

01:41:11 ◼   ► Google account even if you're not even you know and you can sign in and be [TS]

01:41:15 ◼   ► signed in and not and and do the location preference separately although [TS]

01:41:22 ◼   ► in my opinion they actually they they kind of very the preference for the [TS]

01:41:27 ◼   ► location stuff in a sort of Facebook EADS sort of way of making it not that [TS]

01:41:33 ◼   ► obvious where you go and language surrounding it is slightly obtuse in my [TS]

01:41:39 ◼   ► opinion which I don't think it's a coincidence I get his heart it is really [TS]

01:41:45 ◼   ► hard to do this box to disable location-based privacy settings yes or [TS]

01:41:51 ◼   ► cancelled gas are ok it's a little like that but boy that the whole thing if [TS]

01:41:59 ◼   ► you're not signed in [TS]

01:42:00 ◼   ► that really doesn't do it anywhere near as much work as you know when they first [TS]

01:42:04 ◼   ► came out it was just like google.com where [TS]

01:42:07 ◼   ► r being signed in London remember stuff but for the most part you could do the [TS]

01:42:10 ◼   ► whole thing without being sign that I don't i I don't even keep a Google [TS]

01:42:16 ◼   ► account logged in on my main browser like I have so far as my main browser [TS]

01:42:20 ◼   ► and I have grown as like my my ghetto and Chrome has flash and a Google [TS]

01:42:26 ◼   ► account sign in or anything I need that requires those things like to switch [TS]

01:42:30 ◼   ► over to come forward most my brother I'm doing not there and just because you [TS]

01:42:34 ◼   ► know and I know Google knows who I am attracting anyway you know it gives me a [TS]

01:42:39 ◼   ► little bit of peace of mind cuz it just seems like overtime Google just wants [TS]

01:42:43 ◼   ► more and more and more from us and you're right that they're they're [TS]

01:42:47 ◼   ► bringing the Google account [TS]

01:42:49 ◼   ► in a more heavy-handed way into more of their stuff and they really want you to [TS]

01:42:53 ◼   ► be signed in so they know exactly who do it should be obvious behavioral data to [TS]

01:42:56 ◼   ► and they don't have to just inferred but with less confidence and it just seems [TS]

01:43:02 ◼   ► like you know you give them an inch they take a foot like every time I sign in it [TS]

01:43:05 ◼   ► prompts you to add a phone number and they say it's for security that's great [TS]

01:43:09 ◼   ► but I don't trust their advertising companies so you know what my phone [TS]

01:43:12 ◼   ► number four oh I don't give it to them and I'm sure they could I'm sure they [TS]

01:43:15 ◼   ► found it there some other means [TS]

01:43:16 ◼   ► show that something I've done somewhere on the internet has given them my phone [TS]

01:43:20 ◼   ► number and some other way but it's not the same and so I know I try to I try to [TS]

01:43:29 ◼   ► keep my privacy to you no reason to believe mine recently mind if I can with [TS]

01:43:34 ◼   ► Google and every time they had a new feature if I want to use it usually got [TS]

01:43:39 ◼   ► to get a little more that and and you can say oh you know that's fine I trust [TS]

01:43:45 ◼   ► them more than you know they're not gonna do anything with it but you never [TS]

01:43:47 ◼   ► know and people are not skeptical enough I think of companies like this and even [TS]

01:43:53 ◼   ► if you say I hide what's the point is it you know like I feel like you know what [TS]

01:43:59 ◼   ► are their any people in your life besides your wife and four other people [TS]

01:44:05 ◼   ► even that's not the case where you would want them to know to have a record of it [TS]

01:44:10 ◼   ► where you have you ever go like for them to have at that location like member [TS]

01:44:15 ◼   ► number when the application database got out they were accidentally keep it on [TS]

01:44:18 ◼   ► the phone [TS]

01:44:18 ◼   ► you could like uploaded and see a map of where you went that was creepy as hell [TS]

01:44:22 ◼   ► and you know is there anyone in your life that you know besides your spouse [TS]

01:44:28 ◼   ► who you would want to have that information like if there's no people [TS]

01:44:31 ◼   ► who would trust that people who you know who you know what their motivations you [TS]

01:44:35 ◼   ► know you know what that you know what they're going to do with that [TS]

01:44:37 ◼   ► information if anything you wouldn't trust people at that why do you give it [TS]

01:44:41 ◼   ► to you know I just it just seems like people don't look at this with my [TS]

01:44:46 ◼   ► skepticism that's why that's why the model works but increasingly I find [TS]

01:44:51 ◼   ► myself more and more alienated by Google because they keep wanting more from me [TS]

01:44:57 ◼   ► and i dont wanna give it to them and I i want to remain at a safe distance from [TS]

01:45:01 ◼   ► them [TS]

01:45:03 ◼   ► Information and Privacy wise and they are increasingly turning pulled out line [TS]

01:45:07 ◼   ► in with people and say no we are minimum distance is now shorter totally I [TS]

01:45:14 ◼   ► noticed one thing that I thought was a little weird just before we sign off and [TS]

01:45:18 ◼   ► as I do have Google Maps I do have the app installed on my phone but I'm not [TS]

01:45:25 ◼   ► signed in [TS]

01:45:26 ◼   ► because you know I although I'm pretty happy with Apple maps there are times if [TS]

01:45:31 ◼   ► it doesn't work right then it you know I want Google Maps to do it for example [TS]

01:45:34 ◼   ► when I was in actually in Dublin Apple maps did pretty good but I was in New [TS]

01:45:40 ◼   ► Zealand for web stock AAPL search was just not that good and Google's was [TS]

01:45:44 ◼   ► great in terms of like fining everybody says they're going to such-and-such [TS]

01:45:47 ◼   ► restaurant but in Instagram I'm just made my famous Instapaper Instagram [TS]

01:45:55 ◼   ► inflation Instagram the other day I clicked on a map on somebody's photo I [TS]

01:45:58 ◼   ► wanted to see where they were and when I tap the map in Instagram it took me to [TS]

01:46:05 ◼   ► it to Google Maps not Apple maps [TS]

01:46:09 ◼   ► and I I'm betting that they're doing the thing that you did with I think the [TS]

01:46:14 ◼   ► magazine or chrome is actually a mistake we are you do you you which is not a bad [TS]

01:46:20 ◼   ► idea but in practice is not it was not what people want to hear you made this [TS]

01:46:23 ◼   ► decision that if chrome was installed assume that they want to use it as their [TS]

01:46:29 ◼   ► default browser it was a way to work around the fact that Apple doesn't let [TS]

01:46:33 ◼   ► you specify non Safari default browser but the downside of it is there's a lot [TS]

01:46:39 ◼   ► of people who do have chrome installed but don't want to be there to fall [TS]

01:46:42 ◼   ► browser and I kind of think that that's what Instagram is doing with maps [TS]

01:46:48 ◼   ► you mean you would think because that's a facebook on property now you would [TS]

01:46:52 ◼   ► think they would want to be overly friendly towards Google right I don't [TS]

01:46:56 ◼   ► understand why we do that but anyway any other than its weird even a little I [TS]

01:47:01 ◼   ► know it sounds weird but it's an emphasis that though is that inside the [TS]

01:47:06 ◼   ► app they're using the OS mapping service which therefore looks like Apple maps [TS]

01:47:12 ◼   ► you're not looking at a bigger version of the map you so you're looking at the [TS]

01:47:15 ◼   ► different map that's weird that I would like something some kind of old part of [TS]

01:47:21 ◼   ► the code that they forgot about that sucks and yeah I wonder if maybe you [TS]

01:47:25 ◼   ► should shoot off the URL in a certain way that it does go to Google Maps I [TS]

01:47:29 ◼   ► don't know maybe maybe that's what it is I don't know what we're doing anyway I [TS]

01:47:37 ◼   ► call the show that it's a good long show solid almost 200 thank you very much for [TS]

01:47:43 ◼   ► your time [TS]

01:47:44 ◼   ► thankful can find people can find out more and the magazine what's the URL for [TS]

01:47:51 ◼   ► magazine it's a terrible demand it it's the dash magazine dunno hurt when you go [TS]

01:47:56 ◼   ► just go to the App Store and look at them we're going to talk about that but [TS]

01:48:03 ◼   ► we're and time I really like that PC guys had i think is the most recent [TS]

01:48:07 ◼   ► issue the one with the doctor on vaccinations yet how's my favorite piece [TS]

01:48:11 ◼   ► of that was that was the best one I was the best sorry not just in the magazine [TS]

01:48:16 ◼   ► but it was I want my favorite articles of the week so anyway [TS]

01:48:20 ◼   ► everybody if you want some good Rico check out the magazine and look at this [TS]

01:48:22 ◼   ► article on this area to don't vaccinate their kids and my thanks to our sponsors [TS]

01:48:29 ◼   ► again [TS]

01:48:30 ◼   ► Backblaze Backblaze dot com slash daring fireball not the talk show and file [TS]

01:48:39 ◼   ► transporter or transporter and their Dr Ellis filed transporter dot com slash [TS]

01:48:44 ◼   ► talk and save 10% with the discount code talk thank you Mark oh thanks [TS]