The Talk Show

47: Extreme Minimal Guns


00:00:00   christa Morgan you wrote an article yet article on macworld this week's why [TS]

00:00:03   invited to be on the show why iOS Evans design is bold but flawed I get a lot of [TS]

00:00:09   attention for this article I think I was really surprised by that that was it was [TS]

00:00:13   really flattering I think that there's more than you could say about it down in [TS]

00:00:20   my opinion sure you describe it our board your mouth but you describe the [TS]

00:00:26   move you know and it is it is kind of hard to describe just what exactly [TS]

00:00:29   they've done it very clear from the moment they first showed that video on [TS]

00:00:33   stage that they did something very drastic rate but once you start to 2012 [TS]

00:00:37   articulated it it's kinda hard it's not black it's not and no doubt three you [TS]

00:00:44   call it followed 3d to real 2.5 D right yeah so and that comes from just what I [TS]

00:00:52   used to do it after effects and I so I recommend increases article about you [TS]

00:00:58   know multiplanar technologies like yes exactly that's exactly it and so I was [TS]

00:01:03   really excited by this actually just in terms of like I really want to design [TS]

00:01:07   for it because it sort of combines like my past and you know animation [TS]

00:01:12   experience with with the user interface design and I just think it's all BS [TS]

00:01:17   they've stripped away the sort of they're going for their home for 3d but [TS]

00:01:21   it was you know flat two-dimensional you know elements and they were sort of [TS]

00:01:26   static on the screen and so they had to rely on these really bubbly sort of icon [TS]

00:01:30   with a lot of class and the teacher doesnt stop by now that they can how you [TS]

00:01:34   know sort of two and a half Dr yes you know it's it's what that means but when [TS]

00:01:37   you tilt the phone you can sort of see how things moving relationship to each [TS]

00:01:41   other another they have that they can strip away you know all of the all the [TS]

00:01:47   unnecessary the 3d stuff which i think is really the pic 3d stuff it really [TS]

00:01:53   wouldn't work with this cause I soon as you tilt the phone in the shadows and [TS]

00:01:57   the gloss wouldn't move with it so that the illusion of being told they broke in [TS]

00:02:00   that way so it really you know this sort of what flat two and a half the sort of [TS]

00:02:07   thing really works best with with flat plains [TS]

00:02:11   and I think that the fact that you have an animation background and I think that [TS]

00:02:15   it's not a coincidence that you articulated this change very well and I [TS]

00:02:20   think part of that is the fact that that part of the design team in Apple behind [TS]

00:02:25   this have come from not from a traditional user interface background [TS]

00:02:29   but from the motion graphics by ground and I don't think it's a coincidence [TS]

00:02:34   that all that like the movie they used to open the BBC which had nothing to do [TS]

00:02:38   with I was seven but it was chock full of really interesting motion graphic [TS]

00:02:41   House Beautiful yeah it was it was gorgeous I loved it was really excited [TS]

00:02:46   just to see that and that it was great that they opened with some sense I'd [TS]

00:02:50   like to see some of that come to Iowa 70 yeah definitely would be would be great [TS]

00:02:55   just like a fluidity to those to those videos that I think would fit right in [TS]

00:03:00   with iOS 7 but isn't isn't quite there yet [TS]

00:03:04   factor of time right and I don't know really much about the technical aspect I [TS]

00:03:10   don't know how you know it's it's like a matter of just they're being limited [TS]

00:03:16   ability to actually do such fluid animations you know and do it in real [TS]

00:03:20   time on the phone or if it's or if it's a matter of they just haven't perfected [TS]

00:03:26   in homes that much yet but I definitely think it's going in that direction of [TS]

00:03:30   it'll just become more and more fluid that way and hopefully I think you know [TS]

00:03:34   it would graduate possibly two more 3d interface really like you're moving [TS]

00:03:38   through folders and and groups of apps basically on an icy access through the [TS]

00:03:44   phone I think that'd be neat to see it happening and just sort of as an interim [TS]

00:03:48   step my favorite new thing I think it all of Iowa's Devyn is to go from home [TS]

00:03:54   screen to a folder to adapt and blackout yeah I love it yeah totally reminds me [TS]

00:04:01   of the powers of 10 movie yeah yeah this reason the argon hydrogen fueling in a [TS]

00:04:08   certain way and it feels fine make sure yet totally yeah it feels like he really [TS]

00:04:15   are moving that way whereas before you know things are just order move up and [TS]

00:04:20   down and yes you were sort of getting the idea of going going into something [TS]

00:04:25   but not completely you know I mean it's writing and talking it's ok but I think [TS]

00:04:32   that you know sometimes you can you can you can make the logical argument for it [TS]

00:04:38   in writing better but I feel like when talking about things you can make the [TS]

00:04:42   the field argument for things better and that's why do a podcast I'm not sure but [TS]

00:04:49   I do think too I think that the fact that there's people with serious [TS]

00:04:53   professional motion graphics background behind this ad is what had the rigor to [TS]

00:05:00   the rules about the plane's [TS]

00:05:03   seven and they're like yeah I was seven cuz I've seen people say that now that [TS]

00:05:09   there's no difference with Iowa six then now regard it's just it's really just [TS]

00:05:14   stylistic crowd because things slid under now bars before a bit but in the [TS]

00:05:19   old days people designers used to cheat and a my favorite example of that is the [TS]

00:05:23   linen because sometimes lyndon was over like a notification centre you down in [TS]

00:05:28   london is over but then you'd open a folder in linen was under so where where [TS]

00:05:32   is the linen exactly yeah that's that's a really good point and you can cheat [TS]

00:05:38   because you can make software do anything you can have it be over and [TS]

00:05:41   under and it doesn't you know it's almost like a brain teaser puzzle but it [TS]

00:05:46   takes away from the satisfaction I made doesn't make it feel like you're using a [TS]

00:05:50   system makes it feel like it's all a little arbitrary right and I feel like [TS]

00:05:56   Apple is really thick specifically address that problem like regardless of [TS]

00:06:00   whether you prefer brushed glass as the sort of look and feel of the layer or [TS]

00:06:04   you like that that fake linen texture of the lair at the very least I don't see [TS]

00:06:10   how anybody could argue that having a more logical set of rules as to what [TS]

00:06:13   goes on what layer is not a win for the system [TS]

00:06:17   right now I think that's that's a really good point and i think actually the the [TS]

00:06:22   blurred sort of like frosted blasting makes a lot of sense because you could [TS]

00:06:25   have sort of infinitely it's always whatever is underneath of it you know is [TS]

00:06:29   underneath of it so that sort of like it always makes sense resolution and it [TS]

00:06:34   sort of felt like it should be under and so than when it was over it was [TS]

00:06:37   confusing I don't know I never has a lot of problems with just the the rampant [TS]

00:06:46   sort of tons of user glare sort of everywhere this is something I can't [TS]

00:06:51   have you no I don't I don't mind it so much yet and we'll see how I feel about [TS]

00:06:55   it and another couple of months but really I think that gets to Craig [TS]

00:06:59   Hockenberry point which I keep making every week on the show but that it it [TS]

00:07:03   goes to the 3d effects in the original version of the aqua once you add that I [TS]

00:07:08   think it's the i think probably the right way to go is to go a little [TS]

00:07:11   overboard and then dial dial it back here from Sarah yeah but I think I [TS]

00:07:18   haven't probably right that it's over board right now but yeah I think that [TS]

00:07:23   it's but I think it might be the right way to go in the first version it goes [TS]

00:07:26   this route [TS]

00:07:31   a very specific question and I don't think I've looked in what Apple is [TS]

00:07:40   written so far for the human interface stuff and they don't really have like an [TS]

00:07:44   iOS 7 human interface guide you have sort of a transition guide yeah but [TS]

00:07:51   there's nowhere near as much documentation as I sort of assumed there [TS]

00:07:55   was when I first logged in today Dec account and a WBC and I it seemed like [TS]

00:08:01   there was a lot their WBC a $3 and then I read like 20 pages [TS]

00:08:08   yeah and here's a specific question so in all of Apple's Epson Stylus 7 the [TS]

00:08:15   ones involving updated for the new [TS]

00:08:18   look they use a white mostly translucent mostly mostly solid semi translucent bar [TS]

00:08:26   and they pick different call them black in color is something like that so male [TS]

00:08:34   the button to go back to your inbox is blue and calendar it's red and yellow do [TS]

00:08:42   you think that right now [TS]

00:08:46   bar is a poison intends for that all Iowa 7 apps to use that and only pick a [TS]

00:08:52   color for tax or do you think colored have bars are still going to be a thing [TS]

00:08:57   they'll just be glad I think that they'll still be there will still be [TS]

00:09:03   colored bars and then they'll just use the blame because that was all he [TS]

00:09:07   remember what presentation to you is and I will give you the the WWDC [TS]

00:09:12   presentation videos and they gave you know specific instructions for how to [TS]

00:09:16   clean a bar and you know and keep the translation seeing and Blair happenings [TS]

00:09:21   and then in still control the tempo as well so I think they're they're not [TS]

00:09:25   totally opposed to that I don't think that they're wanting everyone to use the [TS]

00:09:29   white I think you know all of Apple stuff will probably for the most part [TS]

00:09:34   stick with wait until I don't know until they decide to break out into something [TS]

00:09:38   different maybe not this this time but in the future and other big update but [TS]

00:09:43   yeah I think other people and third party apps will definitely use colored [TS]

00:09:49   number still but you know just using the translucency in and blur still be you [TS]

00:09:54   know that'll be and removing League exaggerated 3d ages underneath the [TS]

00:10:00   swirling content to having instead they're right on top like Nike will [TS]

00:10:06   still use of vibrant red and Yelp will use red [TS]

00:10:10   and you know who else has a distinctive color like that but you know a lot about [TS]

00:10:13   distinction that's a big part of like knowing where you are as far as being a [TS]

00:10:20   third party app like it's just a big part of like the color scheme tells you [TS]

00:10:24   what the apps identity is sort of so I can just at a glance when I pick my [TS]

00:10:28   iphone backup be like oh yeah I'm in mint or whatever you know I just so you [TS]

00:10:34   know I think that'll and you know stripping away all of this other stuff [TS]

00:10:38   yeah we're going to rely a lot more on color so I think having colored bars [TS]

00:10:43   will be a big thing I said I i i've come around on my left a bday BDC thinking [TS]

00:10:49   because that's what's going to fit in as the weeks have settled in and and I've [TS]

00:10:55   used the beta more and more I start to see that the white isn't really I don't [TS]

00:11:00   think supposed to be system wide it's more like the blue grey gradient yes I [TS]

00:11:08   could be faulty like the chrome that that that Safari and the settings out [TS]

00:11:13   and mail you exactly that's what the white house and apples to share just [TS]

00:11:20   using the default chrome because that's what the system should do one of the [TS]

00:11:27   other things that annoyed me over the years is the way that when the when the [TS]

00:11:32   iPad came out they made certain changes there yet didn't never know until I was [TS]

00:11:40   7 never unified at between the iPhone and iPad so like three example when it's [TS]

00:11:44   always bugged me is that on the iPad Safari is gray whereas on the iPhone [TS]

00:11:50   it's blue grey yeah and I was taught that the great great was better for [TS]

00:11:55   Safari Safari was adapted really should be like color and always [TS]

00:12:04   I wonder and I actually haven't looked at beta 2 on an iPad yet never looked at [TS]

00:12:10   it on my iPad Mini and it didn't look great because of the text rendering and [TS]

00:12:16   then on a screen but that's all I've heard on that I actually haven't seen it [TS]

00:12:20   into an iPad sort of you know in da territory but yeah I don't know it just [TS]

00:12:27   seems like they belong to go I don't know if I talked about this little the [TS]

00:12:33   last week but I wonder what you think two is in past years they've always [TS]

00:12:37   shipped new iPhone and iPad hardware with a new version of the OS although [TS]

00:12:42   sometimes iPad would come out with like the original iPad came out with like iOS [TS]

00:12:46   3.2 or something like that right [TS]

00:12:50   yeah but the iPhone has always coincided new iPhone hardware has always coincided [TS]

00:12:57   with the new diet or release of iOS and newfound has never been able to be like [TS]

00:13:03   if you buy a new iPhone 5 today you can't put out I was five on it [TS]

00:13:09   trade only run I was so presumably the new I have any new iPhone or iPad comes [TS]

00:13:17   out this year would only run iOS 7 great but I can't help but wonder if they have [TS]

00:13:24   a backup plan that just in case [TS]

00:13:27   Iowa seven isn't ready to ship in October yeah maybe they would ship the [TS]

00:13:33   new phone with iOS 6 and say look I was seven is closing you know it'll be a [TS]

00:13:39   free update for everybody [TS]

00:13:40   which would kind of be embarrassing for us I couldn't see it honestly I couldn't [TS]

00:13:45   see them doing that I could see them actually see them delaying the release [TS]

00:13:49   of the iPhone until I was really ready and you know instead of releasing it [TS]

00:13:53   with iOS 6 just because you know they try to 2007 early but I don't really [TS]

00:13:59   know how they make decisions that Apple but I can't really see them doing that [TS]

00:14:05   because they try to 2007 so you know here made a big deal about it and it's [TS]

00:14:10   you know it's even made its way [TS]

00:14:12   into the mainstream media about what a big change it is you know you my mom and [TS]

00:14:18   my mom is reading about it a bigger deal well you know it's literally the front [TS]

00:14:25   page of Isle apple.com has a month since WBC releasing their own without being [TS]

00:14:34   ready to go that day but I also can't see them missing the holiday quarter [TS]

00:14:39   points I feel and I feel like that you know it's like one of this is one of [TS]

00:14:46   those Paul Pierce is movable object type then I feel like in this case the the [TS]

00:14:56   immovable object of you know I was 7 needing to be an annual losses to the [TS]

00:15:04   irresistible force absolutely need a new found for the quarter and probably new [TS]

00:15:12   iPads too but I kind of you know ultimately obviously what they would [TS]

00:15:18   want is to ship the new hardware and a viola 7 be ready [TS]

00:15:22   yeah I just feel like this is the one year where if if if there is not going [TS]

00:15:28   to be ready in time this is the year because the changes so truly dramatic [TS]

00:15:32   yeah it is so huge it's so different I'm really impressed that they have done [TS]

00:15:39   such a monumental overhaul in such a short amount of time it's incredible [TS]

00:15:43   when you work on individual products you know how long it takes you just think [TS]

00:15:48   you know you kind of get a sense of how how much work it would be to change at [TS]

00:15:52   every single pixel and not just a pickle pixels but just like the physics and all [TS]

00:15:59   the animation and everything that's a much bigger I mean it's it's crazy I [TS]

00:16:03   can't imagine the I can imagine how much work went into that the other night I [TS]

00:16:09   was bored [TS]

00:16:12   and I went through that my testing phone is running I was seven and tried to find [TS]

00:16:17   anything in the system that hadn't changed just the parents are great and [TS]

00:16:22   the only thing I could come up with is the text completions you know if you've [TS]

00:16:29   misspelled a word and it makes you cancel there's like that little white [TS]

00:16:34   house with a little tiny and no I don't think that changed although maybe it [TS]

00:16:42   didn't change something actually got two things to check them out [TS]

00:16:49   77 on my phone has our lives [TS]

00:16:56   iPod Touch couldn't be updated to iOS 7 are you using it on your dear daily [TS]

00:17:03   found almost never do that actually I was just look at what he's doing but I [TS]

00:17:12   couldn't yeah I had to do it this time because it's such a huge change and it's [TS]

00:17:21   funny to because you get older and you should be less scared of such things [TS]

00:17:24   because you have more to lose when you're young but now that somehow makes [TS]

00:17:32   me way more cautious yeah I remember two years ago I remember was two years ago [TS]

00:17:39   ABC and it was the Monday and it was like five o'clock and a bunch of us met [TS]

00:17:45   W for cocktails and Marco Arment came in and we're all talking about violence 5 [TS]

00:17:52   at the time everybody was wondering about something in marco was like here I [TS]

00:17:55   have already installed it and we're all out what you're not you know your [TS]

00:17:59   regular phone he's not sure why he took it out and he showed us a thing [TS]

00:18:03   and it was like we are like wow thats have someone to play with it and [TS]

00:18:08   somebody else did something else and all of a sudden this phone went to the Apple [TS]

00:18:11   logo and restart it might be a problem that has changed as tiny tiny bit [TS]

00:18:18   continue as we just heard the same shape but Iowa 7 there is not the big cat [TS]

00:18:27   around and it no longer it had a stroke and it's like one big joke and I was six [TS]

00:18:36   and a big drop shadow and a smaller X actually and so the excess slightly [TS]

00:18:41   larger and the later agree and that's about it so that everything has changed [TS]

00:18:45   so if anybody else out there anybody listening I would be interested on [TS]

00:18:51   Twitter and and if you can find any aspect of violence that has not changed [TS]

00:18:56   the parents I don't think there's anything I think okay so I'm in [TS]

00:19:03   photostream shared from someone else and like the little lake but it's the same a [TS]

00:19:13   little like smiley face ok I don't know it's different now and its allied it's [TS]

00:19:19   it's flattened like the old one is lately has a little gloss on it and its [TS]

00:19:24   failure to my favorite changes and it's one that I've thought ever since the [TS]

00:19:29   first iPhone in 2007 I always thought was too much in bad taste is that I made [TS]

00:19:35   that joke about Marco and you get that Apple logo in the phone restarts that [TS]

00:19:39   old apple logo and I always had like the most over but that comment below and [TS]

00:19:45   it's gone and so much more than it was like three light sources a huge i didnt [TS]

00:19:51   i dont and never liked that even from the unit from day one is like bubbly and [TS]

00:19:57   shiny and stuff it was some of the logo in particular it was so going because it [TS]

00:20:03   wasn't just a gloss it was like six times across you know [TS]

00:20:08   to shadows and all this stuff and now it's just a flat white apple logo which [TS]

00:20:13   is to me what it always should have been yeah it's great now I missed the battery [TS]

00:20:21   illustration used to be so pretty [TS]

00:20:25   yeah and the new one and a new one does it just doesn't make them plugged in [TS]

00:20:32   charging I mean you know I have lots of like a little grapes like things like [TS]

00:20:38   going back to like talking about weight overlays and stuff like that with photos [TS]

00:20:43   I really don't like you and again with a photo streams when you're when you're [TS]

00:20:46   looking at like the activity on a photostream there's a light over land it [TS]

00:20:51   out on your photos and it used to do that but in black and white [TS]

00:20:57   over a photo just doesn't work for me at all sitting out like a light black [TS]

00:21:00   voters like okay fine but anyway I don't know there's a there's a lot of little [TS]

00:21:06   things just like yeah it's the same reason why I think like iPhoto it [TS]

00:21:11   defaults to a dark background yes when you view and no reason life photo apps [TS]

00:21:20   like a pitcher Lightroom tend to dark backgrounds that brings you know somehow [TS]

00:21:28   is more neutral black or dark if there is any kind of chrome borders something [TS]

00:21:34   like that it's more neutral white seems like you're you're drawing attention [TS]

00:21:40   away from the photo yeah just doesn't work with a lot of photos I don't know I [TS]

00:21:48   think black is definitely nicer but again that means just change my mind [TS]

00:21:54   eventually it is more museum or gallery like to have you know you're looking in [TS]

00:22:00   your photos up and you're looking at collections or whatever it's more lately [TS]

00:22:04   I guess more gallery esque but it's not as nice as you like the new photos up a [TS]

00:22:13   lot though and I do think I do think that there is a case where regardless of [TS]

00:22:16   what you think of the aesthetic changes and seven [TS]

00:22:19   here's a case where they've obviously put a lot of time and thought into just [TS]

00:22:22   what it means to be a photo app on iPhone in 2013 which is that look let's [TS]

00:22:29   face it you're gonna take like 1500 pictures this year and all gonna be on [TS]

00:22:33   how can we deal with that in a better way to collections are great years used [TS]

00:22:41   to collections to moments I think it's super cool and it's surprising how [TS]

00:22:45   useful those tiny tiny thumbnails in years can be caused you pick out some [TS]

00:22:50   spots shots and some you're not going to be able to shoot something in the [TS]

00:22:54   darkroom it's gonna be black but there are some like if you shoot like 10 shots [TS]

00:22:58   on it and it's certainly a sunny day or something like that they stick out like [TS]

00:23:02   that that's what I'm looking for [TS]

00:23:04   definitely yeah it works well kind of surprising how how much to tell you I [TS]

00:23:13   can see such a small yeah totally I think it's it plays into the Retina [TS]

00:23:19   screen maybe it's all the same but it may be the same number of pixels what [TS]

00:23:28   used to be a full size and even a tiny size you can kind of pick it out I want [TS]

00:23:35   to Buyi want to get back to you are suggestions for where you think [TS]

00:23:40   I was seven is flawed but first I'm gonna take it take a break here ok thank [TS]

00:23:45   our first sponsor for sponsor this week is an Event Apart respond to this [TS]

00:23:52   podcast is sponsored by an Event Apart and they are the design conference for [TS]

00:23:56   people who make websites with upcoming events in San Diego Boston washingtonDC [TS]

00:24:02   Chicago Boston and San Francisco founded by web visionaries Eric Meyer and Jeff [TS]

00:24:09   resultant dedicated to the proposition that the creators of great Web [TS]

00:24:13   experiences deserve a great learning experience and Event Apart brings [TS]

00:24:18   together 12 leading minds and web design for two days of non-stop inspiration and [TS]

00:24:23   enlightenment plus an optional day-long workshop on multi-device web design if [TS]

00:24:29   you care about code as well as content usability as well as design an Event [TS]

00:24:34   Apart is the conference you've been waiting for his we do find out more go [TS]

00:24:38   to an Event Apart com slash the talk show / talk show know that an Event [TS]

00:24:47   Apart dot com slash talk show to learn more [TS]

00:24:51   great conference I said before I've been to an Event Apart several times one of [TS]

00:24:55   the best-run conferences I have ever I've ever been to my thanks to them so [TS]

00:25:06   we've got to the ballpark violence 7 explain to me your case for what's odd [TS]

00:25:13   about what Apple has shown so far but I was 70 so I mean it's a lot of little [TS]

00:25:19   things but just the big ones were the type which actually gotten used to using [TS]

00:25:25   just the default settings for typography know and you know there was a there's a [TS]

00:25:31   setting for higher contrast backgrounds which I had turned on [TS]

00:25:34   urgently to turn that off as sort of it's like well this is it the way that [TS]

00:25:38   people are going to see it [TS]

00:25:39   and stop bothering me as much as it was originally but it's still a special in [TS]

00:25:45   the places where these ultra light which is a tiny but when they do it's sort of [TS]

00:25:54   like wow that's really like and then even just like reading mail and it's [TS]

00:25:58   it's just really liked and kind of hard to read and i feel like i wud legibility [TS]

00:26:05   is so hugely important and I know and screen you see a lot more and and things [TS]

00:26:10   that wouldn't work on another screens work can work here but yeah I feel like [TS]

00:26:15   Helvetica light wasn't a choice I made the case [TS]

00:26:21   couple months ago baby back ribs the winner in that the future of you are [TS]

00:26:27   designed to look to see the future of UI design look at print design and things [TS]

00:26:33   that you know like as I remember when we first got Lehigh dpi laser printers back [TS]

00:26:37   in the nineties and you could print these grayscale radians that looked good [TS]

00:26:41   because the odds were finally well then we are used them everything we designed [TS]

00:26:47   everything had a gradient colored background and then within a year or two [TS]

00:26:51   we all realize my god we're way over using these gradients things and I feel [TS]

00:26:58   like that's where UI design got to from the iPhone through now is is sort of you [TS]

00:27:06   know we can do these incredibly cool facts but then we use them too much and [TS]

00:27:12   I for sure but I think that if you follow that I still think that's right i [TS]

00:27:17   think you can say well how many people in print design used Helvetica light as [TS]

00:27:22   the body rates no not really done there no I'd say try to think of a magazine [TS]

00:27:29   that you read that uses a fun as fine as Helvetica light and I i can't think of [TS]

00:27:36   any i mean maybe some advertising you know like you know it does have a sort [TS]

00:27:41   of luxury brand feel ya and it's beautiful but yeah it's just like the [TS]

00:27:47   reading room isn't great like you sort of know your eye doesn't doesn't pick [TS]

00:27:53   out letters i think is distinctly as it as it could with another I've always [TS]

00:27:58   thought of it as a sort of a display fund and by West display find headlines [TS]

00:28:05   or subheads big rate for signage yes title not for body copy right can you [TS]

00:28:15   pick a fun for body copy and let's face it like reading your email is you know [TS]

00:28:20   that's a that's a good use for a fun that you know is supposed to be readable [TS]

00:28:24   that's where you know who could typographer 'he's fun designers they [TS]

00:28:31   make choices that maybe aren't as a statically pleasing but are more about [TS]

00:28:36   the you know being a workhorse and doing the right thing for the user to make it [TS]

00:28:43   legible as opposed to making it beautiful it's a trade off and you want [TS]

00:28:48   to see you wanted to be both but yeah of course but legibility has to come first [TS]

00:28:54   but if you're talking about about eighty you know and I do think you know I don't [TS]

00:29:01   mind the light as much as some people I know you you'd linked to quoted Eric [TS]

00:29:05   speak German yeah very much opposed to it [TS]

00:29:09   yeah I think he's a little biased though because he's actually think it's great i [TS]

00:29:13   mean he's obviously a great designer and it created type designer and overall you [TS]

00:29:17   know i'd have never met him but I'm a big fan of his work [TS]

00:29:21   bond famously he's sort of maybe not against Helvetica but he sort of has an [TS]

00:29:26   antipathy for Helvetica definitely yes he does he's he's he articulates the [TS]

00:29:33   case against Helvetica as well as anybody in the movie Helvetica gary has [TS]

00:29:38   amazing and fantastic documentary yes and that's anyway [TS]

00:29:43   Helvetica yeah so speaking in a little bit you know a little bit bias in that [TS]

00:29:50   regard but I think of regard to light in particular he's pretty spot-on now [TS]

00:29:55   yeah it was as corruption unreadable carpet right he also said I know shit [TS]

00:30:09   storm in the little like YouTube clip which I actually like in a comment [TS]

00:30:15   someone had translated what he said but I actually just started watching it and [TS]

00:30:19   it's kind of like having aphasia we like you recognize a word every now and then [TS]

00:30:24   in the use of like you know english words are intermittently but anyway I [TS]

00:30:29   was fun it is true and I just I think that overall it is going to be seen in [TS]

00:30:37   hindsight as a trendy aspect of Iowa seven and the matter I think no matter [TS]

00:30:42   what they do between now and when they ship comfort I don't they make maybe the [TS]

00:30:47   dial back some of it which would be great but yeah I think overall though [TS]

00:30:51   it's still going to be a lot of Helvetica ultralight in in this place [TS]

00:30:57   cases in light I think in years come by way too trendy direction yes I hope and [TS]

00:31:10   I hope that it is that it changes in the future that Apple to in their marketing [TS]

00:31:18   materials and ever since I was 7 has come out of noticed it more [TS]

00:31:22   has been using a lot more of a very light strict version of Mary and their [TS]

00:31:29   own for their own stuff you know their own marketing materials and at first I [TS]

00:31:34   thought that they knew they started using it I think with like the MacBook [TS]

00:31:37   Air or something like that where it was meant the actual light weight of the [TS]

00:31:41   font was meant to convey the lightness of the actual hardware product you are [TS]

00:31:45   buying but it looks like they're using it everywhere and it's sort of almost [TS]

00:31:50   feel like it's a fad that's infected Apple is this desire to go with these [TS]

00:31:55   really light stroke versions of that may be true and I mean that it does just [TS]

00:32:01   really mirror the hardware really well but yeah that's not always always useful [TS]

00:32:09   right now and I think that too because they keep it as you know now that I have [TS]

00:32:14   my old iphone4s running I was seven and I'm trying to use it during the day I [TS]

00:32:19   was in court for a better wifi so much as I can to get used to it and then I [TS]

00:32:24   switched my iPhone 5 and every time I pick up the five oh my god it's so thin [TS]

00:32:27   and light back to day one and I'm shocked at how much it yeah but I kind [TS]

00:32:35   of feel like if they went with Helvetica of regular or irregular yeah whatever [TS]

00:32:40   I'm not gonna say that I don't care about the difference but you know what I [TS]

00:32:44   mean for body text just for like the body of a chat messages I don't think [TS]

00:32:53   that it would ruin the fact no not at all I think there would be really [TS]

00:32:58   helpful and they do so they do use regular and actually so they have like [TS]

00:33:02   dynamic type they they tried to as as they use it at smaller sizes they they [TS]

00:33:07   thicken it up but I feel like they didn't do that and like the they don't [TS]

00:33:12   think enough it at sort of normal reading sizes I guess I mean I think [TS]

00:33:16   it's I think it's a cool thing that they do and that there but they're aware of [TS]

00:33:20   that but just raining there would be great for things like male yeah and I've [TS]

00:33:27   even seen people be confused about what that setting does where I've seen a [TS]

00:33:31   couple peoples think that the dynamic tight [TS]

00:33:34   saying is about making the tape thicker well as it as it gets smaller I just [TS]

00:33:39   like you just the way you know you've got a real I think it's only if you dial [TS]

00:33:43   it down to the smallest size than in some cases it will switch to a regular [TS]

00:33:48   way but for the most part you're still getting identical light size whereas I [TS]

00:33:55   and i think what's telling about the confusion people have over that is is [TS]

00:34:00   that I think a lot of people when they're faced with a greeting their mail [TS]

00:34:03   and I was seven they don't think this fonts too small they think that's want [TS]

00:34:07   to then it's too wispy yes it just doesn't read well and in the iTunes sort [TS]

00:34:14   of like the toolbar icons I mean they really reflect and not in a good way [TS]

00:34:20   either in my opinion things like to share icon of the bookmarks icon in [TS]

00:34:24   Safari so it has like the same weight as hell that accolade just looking at it [TS]

00:34:30   but it is also really hard to distinguish bookmarks I can I was like [TS]

00:34:36   what is that what is that supposed to be a didn't it didn't read as as a bookmark [TS]

00:34:40   icon at all it sort of took me like 10 seconds the person and that's happened [TS]

00:34:44   with a couple of things and you haven't even just just looking at the the icons [TS]

00:34:50   like right now I'm in male looking at the iPhones and they they definitely [TS]

00:34:53   match and they look balanced with with the typography noted but they don't do [TS]

00:34:57   not pretty right hands are nicer to me yeah I don't like that style anyway I've [TS]

00:35:05   expressed it is it to me I think the icon should sort of have the same feel [TS]

00:35:09   that Helvetica as they have the sake you said they have the same stroke with this [TS]

00:35:12   how come they don't look like if Helvetica had a a new Unicode glyph for [TS]

00:35:19   iOS sharing it wouldn't look like a box and the box at the arrow is it funky [TS]

00:35:27   I really liked their old share icon actually you know and and then maybe [TS]

00:35:32   that would be too heavy for this new overhaul of a system but you know [TS]

00:35:38   something in between [TS]

00:35:39   yeah this is again it's it's like a little too far [TS]

00:35:43   yeah and I think that they actually that's one of those things were actually [TS]

00:35:47   and redraw the icon but they've gone too far [TS]

00:35:50   it is still a narrow coming out of the box but I feel like it's so different [TS]

00:35:55   than the old one and it doesn't have to be this will be like you mean to the [TS]

00:36:01   you're sending it sort of alludes to pushing sending whereas this one is just [TS]

00:36:07   sort of going straight up which I know people sort of developed an [TS]

00:36:12   understanding of what that glickman and it doesn't have the energy the other one [TS]

00:36:17   does or sort of the action I don't think that this looks like the same thing [TS]

00:36:21   know you'd only know it because it's in the same spot and most of these apps [TS]

00:36:26   exactly where is it on its own I don't think people would say that's the new [TS]

00:36:30   version of that icon rate and the bookmarks one is another example of that [TS]

00:36:34   to ya book lady so yeah so your agreement with you there are icons I [TS]

00:36:48   could here's another one that I picked up and I it was suddenly bothering me [TS]

00:36:52   but I was seven but when I read your article I was like yes yes this is [TS]

00:36:58   killing which is in like alerts and dialog box type things they they used [TS]

00:37:06   older texts and may not even be have a cold I think it's just Helvetica regular [TS]

00:37:12   but it looks like it's just regular old compared to connote the defaults button [TS]

00:37:18   yeah that's what he can to me before you could tell based on position but also [TS]

00:37:27   just based on the look of the buttons like one stood out you know a lot like [TS]

00:37:33   the hold button was read or or black depending on what kind of inaction she [TS]

00:37:38   you've got but yeah you there's no there's no way to tell me what the least [TS]

00:37:42   destruction destructive option is like right away you have to like sort of just [TS]

00:37:46   look at it for a second and then you know like things pretty much they follow [TS]

00:37:49   the same pattern there in the same place isn't stuff and you interact with them [TS]

00:37:53   in the same way but they don't look the same I mean yeah there's not there's not [TS]

00:37:58   enough distinction [TS]

00:37:59   there to me i i [TS]

00:38:02   it confused me all along and I couldn't help but wonder if in some cases it was [TS]

00:38:07   just a bug because it's at an early version of the OS that they've won was [TS]

00:38:11   different then when she said that I kind of started seeing it yeah that's what [TS]

00:38:15   they mean they mean to go to the bold one by the fall in some cases it's the [TS]

00:38:20   safe option in other cases maybe it's not the safe option but it's like what [TS]

00:38:27   you would expect them to want to do ya like if you already clicked a trash can [TS]

00:38:31   icon you probably do want to delete this bold and cancel will be then share but [TS]

00:38:39   overall the effect though is to me it's it's it's an interesting idea and it was [TS]

00:38:43   worth trying but I think it's a complete failure because I feel like that's the [TS]

00:38:47   sort of thing like if you have two or three buttons in a dialog box you can [TS]

00:38:53   maybe play with the color of them but you can't play with the weight it it [TS]

00:38:57   just looks like you've made like programming error yeah yeah cuz look [TS]

00:39:03   accidental like if I have three articles on my website and all three of the same [TS]

00:39:09   type of articles were then they should all use the same mantra the headline and [TS]

00:39:13   one of them is using a different font for the headline it looks like a mistake [TS]

00:39:17   like I said the wrong class on the element or something like that that's [TS]

00:39:21   what these buttons and it sticks out of me [TS]

00:39:25   rather than get used to it as the weeks go on it sticks out to me more and more [TS]

00:39:29   as time goes on and I think I see the logic though of why they did it that way [TS]

00:39:34   which is you can kind of backwards engineer which is like Mac OS 10 the [TS]

00:39:39   default button pulses [TS]

00:39:42   blue and it has like animation to it and then you know that if you hit the Return [TS]

00:39:47   key on your keyboard you that's the button that's right that's right and [TS]

00:39:53   then on iOS they don't have returned key so you know you kinda have to just [TS]

00:39:57   happened so they would just make like the default one blue and the other ones [TS]

00:40:00   gray typically something like that they would use the background color of the [TS]

00:40:05   button [TS]

00:40:06   so now they've got done away with backgrounds of buttons so they had [TS]

00:40:11   nothing else to play with and so they said well why don't we try making a bold [TS]

00:40:15   right it doesn't work for me either its just not it's not distinct enough and [TS]

00:40:21   like you said you had to just different enough that it looks wrong but it [TS]

00:40:28   doesn't jump out at you like I want to be able to tell at a glance which which [TS]

00:40:31   button is canceled and you know I do know that cancels going to be the one on [TS]

00:40:35   the bottom usually but yeah I just wanted to stand out more I don't want to [TS]

00:40:40   have to really parse these are sort of like new get to a point where you you're [TS]

00:40:45   not actually been reading the buttons you just want to know what they do and [TS]

00:40:49   say and and a lot of that is visual and so no sort of you have to rely more on [TS]

00:40:54   the text and it takes just like slightly longer I would almost prefer if they [TS]

00:41:00   want to stick to their extreme minimal guns I would almost prefer if they did [TS]

00:41:06   less to differentiate them and only use let's say the placement of the buttons [TS]

00:41:11   to to confer which one is the default so if it's a stack of vertical stack of you [TS]

00:41:18   often get on the iPhone topped the top one is the fall and the bottom line is [TS]

00:41:24   canceled and they all have the same weight Helvetica whether its regular [TS]

00:41:29   whether it's all true just make them all the same and it's like a two buttons [TS]

00:41:35   left-right the right one is always defaults and the left one is always the [TS]

00:41:40   canceled or the equivalent you know but make them the same way and just let the [TS]

00:41:44   consistency of their placement be the the emphasis even though there's [TS]

00:41:49   actually less emphasis in that case my eyes just can't get used to the [TS]

00:41:54   different two buttons that are supposed to be peers yea or anything else [TS]

00:42:04   oh the icon grid for this is a big question I have yeah so this is pretty [TS]

00:42:09   controversial [TS]

00:42:12   your [TS]

00:42:13   your husband you mentioned in the article Nevin Morgan a pretty good [TS]

00:42:18   article widely read about you called this grid wrong this is this sort of [TS]

00:42:23   template grid that Apple has shown that they they say all of their Iowa sevens [TS]

00:42:29   confer with comply with a match and you agree with Nevin that it's not it's not [TS]

00:42:40   a good idea well I feel like either yeah either the greatest longer people are [TS]

00:42:45   using wrong and he you know he mentions that to sort it sort of like looking at [TS]

00:42:49   setting is that it looks like it extends you know way too close to the edges and [TS]

00:42:54   any different if it wasn't so heavy and likewise like the circle for the App [TS]

00:43:00   Store iTunes Store just feels like it's it's too large within the square where [TS]

00:43:06   he and funky played devil's advocate here disagree I don't think so I don't [TS]

00:43:14   think it looks weird it looks as usual I don't think that it's inherently I agree [TS]

00:43:21   with Nevin that it goes contrary to these sort of consensus designed sent [TS]

00:43:26   that we've arrived at with with iOS icons in particular app icons over the [TS]

00:43:31   years and that would never i think is described as as feeling right just the [TS]

00:43:38   iPod sizing is indeed the it's like when you're trying to judge if you see [TS]

00:43:48   somebody in [TS]

00:43:49   and you know like a friend is your spouse or somebody is buying a new dress [TS]

00:43:55   or a suit because there's a big wedding coming up and you go shopping with them [TS]

00:44:00   and they come out and you know you just sort of have an idea that wow that does [TS]

00:44:06   look good it looks much more you know that look stylish that's a much nicer [TS]

00:44:10   Sudan your old one you know or or or the opposite that no that does not like you [TS]

00:44:15   took that suit out of your father's closet [TS]

00:44:18   you know it's doesn't hard to articulate there's like style changes I feel like [TS]

00:44:23   Nevins right that that was the style but I think it's I think it's just that a [TS]

00:44:28   style just a style and not yet but your [TS]

00:44:33   irritate my for some reason in but no you could be right I could just be good [TS]

00:44:38   I'm accustomed to the other style and i dont i dont like seeing when you scale [TS]

00:44:42   back the clock really bugs me although I will say that the Photos app icon I [TS]

00:44:47   really like I said it doesn't bother me that's why maybe cuz it's broken up a [TS]

00:44:51   little bit more like it's not just a circle it's close to the edges it sort [TS]

00:44:55   of these rounded rocks that are you know spun around well I asked him how to me [TS]

00:45:00   it's a better use of the space and a person and one that I don't hate it as [TS]

00:45:04   much as other people but the one that it confuses me is the Safari icon because I [TS]

00:45:09   don't understand why the Safari icon has a circle in the square right just be the [TS]

00:45:17   the needle rained and let it just be a blue square or round square with [TS]

00:45:22   everyone that shape but let me sort of like your weather icon and just have a [TS]

00:45:27   competent it I don't understand why to Circle in the Square right for me what [TS]

00:45:32   bothers me about the most is actually the needle how the needle is touching [TS]

00:45:37   the circle and being close to the edges sort of irritating to but it actually [TS]

00:45:42   that the needle inside it's really just bothers me I don't like it I also kind [TS]

00:45:51   of feel like the new shape and and sort of a draw more close to the edge edict [TS]

00:45:59   works better on the iPad [TS]

00:46:02   yeah I constant and I don't know that they're bad for the iPhone I just think [TS]

00:46:07   that they're different on the iPhone but I think they work better on the iPad and [TS]

00:46:11   here's the thing I have thought about it this week and I haven't seen anybody [TS]

00:46:17   talk about it but I poked around Apple's site and as far as I can tell that icon [TS]

00:46:23   grid is not anything that you can download or at least not yet [TS]

00:46:30   like I came out of WWDC thinking that this grid was going to be right there on [TS]

00:46:36   the iOS Dev Center and you do you know how to design icons for Iowa seven and [TS]

00:46:40   give it to you in a PSD format or some other format PDF or something and then [TS]

00:46:45   you could start drawing your app icons on this great bus far as I can tell that [TS]

00:46:49   group doesn't exist only ones I could find her ones that people out there have [TS]

00:46:54   recreated on their own right [TS]

00:46:57   yeah I haven't found it as as a thing that Apple has produced it either but [TS]

00:47:02   you know I'm sure that their reworking the Interface Guidelines and hopefully [TS]

00:47:07   that'll be part of it all that's what is it just something we're waiting for or [TS]

00:47:13   is this just an explanation of their icons system and they wouldn't mention [TS]

00:47:20   it if they well you know I was sort of really good leader but I don't know I [TS]

00:47:28   could be wrong I was too but now I'm not sure I don't know because the whole [TS]

00:47:37   reason I went looking for it is I got it in my head that if you took it and [TS]

00:47:45   started over laying it on certain Apple products like base stations and like the [TS]

00:47:50   Apple TV that that the hardware already conforms to the same grid interesting [TS]

00:47:57   but I couldn't get that far because I couldn't tell somebody smart out there [TS]

00:48:01   if you want to get a mention on [TS]

00:48:04   fireball that would be a good project this week is fine that grid and then put [TS]

00:48:09   it on top of products like Apple TV and base station and all the other round [TS]

00:48:15   square hardware products they haven't see it see if they fit you believe in [TS]

00:48:22   grid-based designed you think that there's something to that I guess Jony [TS]

00:48:25   ive is committed to it and if my theory is right that the hardware fits to the [TS]

00:48:29   same grid that the icons do then you know I think it works it works for a lot [TS]

00:48:36   of things things I don't know I definitely mostly go on I but it depends [TS]

00:48:43   on what I'm doing and sort of like the more information and sort of data that I [TS]

00:48:48   want to show the more I want to use a grid but the more like about designing [TS]

00:48:51   say like a Mac app icon then it's I don't use it at all it just sort of like [TS]

00:48:56   drawn a shape that I think looks nice but if I'm sort of planning out what [TS]

00:49:02   happens gonna look like a lot more likely to use a great and just sort of [TS]

00:49:06   yes said how am I going to divide up this window and two thirds and more and [TS]

00:49:11   more than that you know how are things going to lay out and I think it just [TS]

00:49:16   depends on the kind of design that you're doing that you're showing I like [TS]

00:49:24   the idea of grids and when I see people who'd who are big supporters of [TS]

00:49:28   grid-based last like we've been a great book on the web based design and I see [TS]

00:49:35   the grid overlaid on top of the result and I see the house there's the system [TS]

00:49:40   and play i think thats awesome I love and I'm always impressed but whenever I [TS]

00:49:45   designed it myself I just go with what looks great [TS]

00:49:48   yeah my favorite example is the daring where the during fireball logo is on the [TS]

00:49:53   during fireball website no logic as it doesn't really fit with either of the [TS]

00:49:59   two columns underneath I just kept moving it left and right until I felt [TS]

00:50:03   like it looked like it was balance between the gap between the two ya done [TS]

00:50:07   and that's absolutely there's no way you can try the kind of grit over that but [TS]

00:50:14   once I had it I thought that stuff [TS]

00:50:17   we have this is called grid systems and it's it's pretty good I haven't actually [TS]

00:50:25   read the whole thing and I love that I like again the I like the concept but [TS]

00:50:30   it's not something I do everytime definitely by any means we take one more [TS]

00:50:39   break here second break and thank our second sponsor or second sponsors week [TS]

00:50:45   is money with money with is a premium experience personal finance available [TS]

00:50:52   for iPhone iPad and Mac unique for its stunning design really cool sort of it [TS]

00:51:01   you can switch to a spreadsheet mode but there's like a pretty mode that makes [TS]

00:51:04   each transaction look very very cool a great five-star user experience in [TS]

00:51:11   customer support [TS]

00:51:13   rich functionality and there's the big thing [TS]

00:51:17   fully automatic cloud sync between the iPhone iPad and Mac money with premium [TS]

00:51:23   personal finance app for your Mac iPhone and iPad with automatic sync would you [TS]

00:51:28   do to find out more easy go to their website it's www.songslover.com silver [TS]

00:51:36   like the precious metal whizzed W I Z dot com and right there on their website [TS]

00:51:43   big honkin movie right there and it shows you everything you want to know [TS]

00:51:49   about it I think that's one of the best ways to shop product here just go to [TS]

00:51:53   this website [TS]

00:51:54   watch this movie and you can instantly see what this thing is all about and [TS]

00:51:58   it's really great looking product money with silver with dot com no special tape [TS]

00:52:07   / the talk show you came here from there they came there from here [TS]

00:52:16   you are so design max offer you said more famous example good example of your [TS]

00:52:27   work would be piezo yeah really really nice out but is so skew more I told you [TS]

00:52:39   when it first came out so the app looks like the icon so [TS]

00:52:46   March the icon it's like the icon to me it's like it just gets turned into a [TS]

00:52:51   full sized window and now you can use it [TS]

00:52:54   the icon is very few apps thanks that's what I was really going to design is it [TS]

00:53:06   is it quickly turning pass 800 I think so too I mean I look at it now I'm like [TS]

00:53:11   oh this is way too like the week it came out I want to redesign it and it's too [TS]

00:53:17   late Chinese but yeah I definitely designed the icon till the app itself [TS]

00:53:23   because that's one thing but when I'm sort of shuffling through my Mac apps I [TS]

00:53:32   wanted to I want each icon to sort of Jaar memory of sort of of what the APIs [TS]

00:53:37   and when it doesn't and what it's going to do so wanted to just really tie them [TS]

00:53:41   together so you know where I feel like we're going to be left with an unusual [TS]

00:53:50   situation where come under no 34234 months after I was seven ships and most [TS]

00:53:59   most actively developed apps have caught up to the highest 7 designed trends that [TS]

00:54:04   will have a lot more apps left on the Mac that look like iOS as we know it and [TS]

00:54:11   fewer on iOS yeah a lot of a lot of the stuff that I see like NPA's appears so [TS]

00:54:19   to me it looks like something a nap on the Mac that has drawn a lot of [TS]

00:54:23   inspiration [TS]

00:54:24   from iOS chair right so it's like there's like a nice little glossy finish [TS]

00:54:32   to the levels that makes it look like there's a piece of glass over I can't [TS]

00:54:36   remember since the fight that on the Mac before I was great and letting it [TS]

00:54:41   directly came from product illustrations of iPhone and iMacs and MacBooks and [TS]

00:54:48   stuff but they started doing that you know probably around the same time not [TS]

00:54:52   really sure when that sort of gloss thing came out in an Apple product [TS]

00:54:58   illustrations but it's definitely not only from the do you think that there [TS]

00:55:05   were thats do you think that the Mac is gonna keep this stuff do you think the [TS]

00:55:08   Mac is heading for an Iowa 17 think I think actually the mech will just keep [TS]

00:55:14   sort of trailing Iowa sand that way in so we'll start seeing more flat caps and [TS]

00:55:21   it'll sort of I think I S is sort of leading the design trends and in the [TS]

00:55:27   mecca sort of following along behind and doing its own thing to have in its [TS]

00:55:30   branching off and going at it and its own way sort of separately but yeah I [TS]

00:55:36   definitely think you'll see left you more prison warden stationed at UPS is [TS]

00:55:42   that had become a big thing but it'll start to trail off now to buy one thing [TS]

00:55:49   I would love to see them do and you know I got we did this and people panic [TS]

00:55:53   nearly always hope not but I you know treated something effective you realize [TS]

00:55:56   that come next year Johnny Ives the same team that brought you I S seven is gonna [TS]

00:56:00   do a new version of Mac OS 10 I don't know that that's true yeah but I [TS]

00:56:07   wouldn't be surprised I wouldn't be surprised if it went one what one [TS]

00:56:10   extreme or the other [TS]

00:56:11   the one extreme would be a radical Iowa seven style jewelry design of a Mac OS [TS]

00:56:17   10 I would think a lot along the lines of what we see with Iowa so just within [TS]

00:56:24   Windows as opposed to fullscreen things [TS]

00:56:26   or B they kind of just leave it alone and and say that you know that this sort [TS]

00:56:32   of grave platinum look that we've gotten to it is sort of the end of the you know [TS]

00:56:39   the end of the ten years of development of establishing a style for it and [TS]

00:56:44   that's what it is [TS]

00:56:45   yeah I hope that it doesnt system I feel like that would be stagnating and it [TS]

00:56:51   would be kind of sad you know so I'm not sure if I mean maybe it won't go as you [TS]

00:56:59   know drastically in the direction of seven but I hope it doesn't stay the [TS]

00:57:02   same my guess is it won't lie I really that it won't stay the same as that and [TS]

00:57:08   I do think something semi I'm a bad bet a little bit of money but like five [TS]

00:57:12   bucks something radical becoming for next year after the same team that [TS]

00:57:18   brought you I was seven is eventually finished with iOS 7 you know has time to [TS]

00:57:23   turn their attention elsewhere [TS]

00:57:24   yeah I would not be surprised but it's kinda striking to me that you know it's [TS]

00:57:30   it's cool if you're a magnum want the Mac you don't want Apple to forget about [TS]

00:57:34   the Mac it's cool that there's average has a lot of new stuff they've cleaned a [TS]

00:57:38   lot of time in the Keno to it it's not an afterthought but in terms of visual [TS]

00:57:43   style nothing has changed ya know which is it's fine for now I'm excited about [TS]

00:57:50   stuff and maverick's but yeah I think it'll get visually updated eventually I [TS]

00:57:57   don't know I can't say if it'll be as drastic as I S seven or maybe just [TS]

00:58:01   ordered to remain in between but definitely hope it'll get at least a bit [TS]

00:58:07   of a facelift [TS]

00:58:09   the other thing maybe I'm off by a year maybe it's a two years out thing because [TS]

00:58:15   I do think this is true that it's not a coincidence that this radical redesign [TS]

00:58:23   of Iowa 7 has happened after almost all I was 70 iOS devices have gone to retina [TS]

00:58:30   displays whereas retina displays for the Mac or still an oddity [TS]

00:58:37   two models to MacBook Pros and those are not the most popular MacBooks the right [TS]

00:58:43   areas are right that's a really good point they couldn't get away with the [TS]

00:58:47   West penis definitely I just a standard non right now display back at ya and I [TS]

00:58:56   think that would hold up well at all like the physics and the animation in [TS]

00:59:01   stuff like that [TS]

00:59:02   that'd be cool I would be totally cool and you know you can't help but think [TS]

00:59:07   that you know if it's the prototype of the future [TS]

00:59:10   the new Mac Pro if it's you know it's John Siracusa describes it like the like [TS]

00:59:17   the race car makes it shows off technology [TS]

00:59:22   oh yeah it's going to be in the family sedan 67 years later it's clearly in [TS]

00:59:28   that direction is the new Mac Pro as in tired graphics card that's not even [TS]

00:59:32   meant to power displayed just to have a GPU available to software to do things [TS]

00:59:38   like you know animate shade I'd love to see Mac OS 10 get flatter one thing that [TS]

00:59:48   bothered me for ten years about is how big the drop however big hi how high the [TS]

00:59:55   drop shadow is between years and I think that's just to make it look super deep [TS]

01:00:01   to sort of implied that you can have a lot of Windows happening at once and [TS]

01:00:05   stacked on top of each other maybe I mean that's always been you know I think [TS]

01:00:09   they've started to get flatter me if you look at the newer scrollbars the last [TS]

01:00:14   two versions like they are not those big honkin always present scroll bars [TS]

01:00:21   anymore it's like they disappear they're they're really in in their totally flat [TS]

01:00:25   and they are they're only there when you when you start to move to fall anyway [TS]

01:00:33   yeah that's a good example of where it's really contra maybe the most gratuitous [TS]

01:00:38   Lee the headlight was out the last remaining vestige of the original [TS]

01:00:42   gratuitous macros 10.0 [TS]

01:00:44   and Annie replaced it with words probably the flattest thing in the [TS]

01:00:48   default system yeah yeah I would say probably isn't the funnest thing the [TS]

01:00:55   dizzy heights the implication of Z height distance between Windows though [TS]

01:00:59   as always been so preposterous on yeah they look like they're like three or [TS]

01:01:03   four inches away from each other [TS]

01:01:05   totally they they really do they're really really big whereas in the classic [TS]

01:01:10   Mac OS two digits drew like a one pixel gray line on the right side and bottom [TS]

01:01:16   side and that was all he needed was perfect but more like paper sheets of [TS]

01:01:21   paper that are stacked as opposed to that's a good analogy Yeah Yeah Yeah [TS]

01:01:28   right things is the implication of an awful lot of distance between windows [TS]

01:01:35   always has always bothered me I we're almost up for the hour but there's one [TS]

01:01:41   more thing I wanted to talk to you about and that was and I didn't even know you [TS]

01:01:45   were involved in it to you brought it up in your macworld article but that you [TS]

01:01:48   were a speaker at apt camp for girls [TS]

01:01:51   yes yeah that was so very was really fun I'm gonna do it again in August so so [TS]

01:01:58   tell me more about how that went [TS]

01:02:00   yes I just went in for one day I think the next time [TS]

01:02:04   camp runs in a couple hours a day for five days but this you know I just went [TS]

01:02:10   in and I did like a 45 minute talk just like an overview about user interface [TS]

01:02:15   design principles and and sort of what that means on iOS I talked about [TS]

01:02:19   patterns an anti patterns and had this bit about hugging the hague just telling [TS]

01:02:24   them you know to sort of embrace expected patterns as far as for problems [TS]

01:02:29   that have already been solved and they're actually really into it and [TS]

01:02:32   likes to pretend I didn't expect like a roomful of middle schoolers to pay [TS]

01:02:36   attention to sort of anything that an adult would be saying standing in the [TS]

01:02:40   front of the room but you have to have this this group of like 12 middle [TS]

01:02:44   schoolers being really interested in interface design was awesome and then [TS]

01:02:49   the biggest part of the whole thing was when I talked about you know get to in [TS]

01:02:55   2007 because they were going to be working on iOS 6 I wanted to stick to [TS]

01:02:59   our I was six works and looks and just just user interface patterns in general [TS]

01:03:04   that sort of thing but it was great they were they were super into it and just [TS]

01:03:08   had a ton of questions and comments was great and I worked with them sort of [TS]

01:03:14   individually afterwards they were broken up into teams and I talked to them [TS]

01:03:16   one-on-one and they talked to them with you know the team's altogether too and [TS]

01:03:21   it was great and it was just calling it a beta yet the camp because I think it [TS]

01:03:28   was only about a dozen girls I think just 12 of 15 girls yes it was the first [TS]

01:03:35   time so they had done an alpha camp before with just three short of seeing [TS]

01:03:38   like what what the camp would be if they did it again this time it was a beta so [TS]

01:03:42   sure of just like doing a run-through seeing how it would really work and yeah [TS]

01:03:49   and it went really well [TS]

01:03:50   McDonald who runs it said it was a lot of great feedback and so now though [TS]

01:03:55   they'll be doing it I guess sort of four real I guess as a as a launch it felt [TS]

01:04:01   really wouldn't rely on their eyes and right now it's you know just well at [TS]

01:04:07   least it's a Portland thing yes yes she wants to expand it to other cities [TS]

01:04:11   because obviously you know middle aged kids aren't going to be able to pack up [TS]

01:04:17   and just go to 12 Portland after you know being local is a bigger deal for a [TS]

01:04:22   kids thing then conference sure yet definitely for summer camp especially I [TS]

01:04:27   think you know it's harder to travel for that I think it's such a great great [TS]

01:04:34   idea and it's not but it's not done yet just because it's the thing [TS]

01:04:40   that I wanted to bring it up again is to launch it to get it off the ground [TS]

01:04:45   jeanne set up as an IndieGoGo project IndieGoGo is sort of like Kickstarter [TS]

01:04:52   type thing but it can be used for different types of projects that [TS]

01:04:55   kick-started can be if you think about it as a different way of doing a [TS]

01:04:59   Kickstarter type thing that's all you need to know [TS]

01:05:01   yeah I think about is like Kickstarter per for nonprofits the things that i've [TS]

01:05:05   landed on it we're almost profit fundraising yeah a perfect perfect way [TS]

01:05:10   of putting it and it's often more for things that can't quite be described as [TS]

01:05:15   a product you know like Kickstarter is minimized by things like the paper watch [TS]

01:05:20   whatever that thing is called yeah you give them money and then you're gonna [TS]

01:05:23   get it [TS]

01:05:24   thing that you can like pick up whereas at Camp for Girls you don't get a don't [TS]

01:05:29   get a watch and a $50,000 goal in a hit and there there as I speak right now [TS]

01:05:37   it's $73,000 which is awesome but there's a really wanna hit a hundred [TS]

01:05:44   thousand before this is up and there's as a as we speak [TS]

01:05:47   11 days left probably by the time you hear this about a week left but I would [TS]

01:05:53   encourage everybody could use Google Apps camp for girls and get there you go [TS]

01:05:57   to indiegogo.com in search for a camp for girls you'll get to the project page [TS]

01:06:02   and if you haven't contributed I really think everybody out there listens to [TS]

01:06:07   show it because it's such a great idea [TS]

01:06:10   do it I'm super excited about it [TS]

01:06:13   yeah me too it was it was such a cool thing to be involved with I'm really [TS]

01:06:16   excited to be involved that again going for it and I hope they reach their goals [TS]

01:06:21   and our goal and keep it going I really it's totally the sort of thing I see my [TS]

01:06:25   daughter doing and she's like 11 or 12 hopefully I mean it depends on who she [TS]

01:06:30   turns out to be in one season to you but I would love it to have just grown to [TS]

01:06:35   the point that she can she can enroll in it [TS]

01:06:37   12 years from now yeah I think it's great i think its gonna hope it takes [TS]

01:06:42   off it but you know it definitely is everybody's help so [TS]

01:06:47   I would encourage everybody listening to check it out I'm so glad to hear that [TS]

01:06:50   the first the beta 1 went well yeah not surprised I feel like there's probably a [TS]

01:06:56   huge untapped market out there for sure [TS]

01:07:00   really really excited about that I Christian Morgan thank you so much for [TS]

01:07:05   being on the show is there anything else any any any website you want me to point [TS]

01:07:10   people to your twitter sure Twitter what's your Twitter handle Anticristo [TS]

01:07:16   anti-christian antichrist within a plea which is a great name of course our [TS]

01:07:29   friends internet funny man Paul [TS]

01:07:32   processes is your boss to report directly to I do yeah he's he's my boss [TS]

01:07:38   / project manager internet funny man with my wife now yes and it was really [TS]

01:07:46   funny I loved the first episode was really good and i was just the tip well [TS]

01:07:57   I thank you very much chris is great Yeah Yeah thanks for having me [TS]