The Talk Show

50: Gold-Plated USB Cables


00:00:00   ok big news this week right we did you sold the washington post to Jeff Bezos [TS]

00:00:06   yeah parents why would you do that well you know I was tired of running it it [TS]

00:00:13   was you know it was created a job for myself I didn't like and I just decided [TS]

00:00:18   you know what I don't want to own this giant national newspaper anymore it's [TS]

00:00:22   it's too much work and too much pleasure alright I hear a lot more work than the [TS]

00:00:29   magazine about the same I used to work at the philadelphia inquirer I was never [TS]

00:00:40   on the editorial staff I would say that two people named Ed they have to say it [TS]

00:00:43   wasn't on the editorial staff because they know now I'm a writer I guess in [TS]

00:00:47   theory act certainly could have been but I wasn't I worked in promotions [TS]

00:00:50   department was like an in-house graphic design department so we make all the ads [TS]

00:00:56   for the enquirer itself there is a you know some of them ran is just filler ads [TS]

00:01:02   when there is a space that was on solder some of them around for things that they [TS]

00:01:06   really just wanted to promote like I knew you know upcoming special series on [TS]

00:01:11   pop up like that but anyway I i you know worked in the building in new people and [TS]

00:01:16   I know just how big an operation a major metro daily is and it's impressive but [TS]

00:01:26   then you hear some of the numbers and it's impressive to legacy a piece in The [TS]

00:01:29   New Yorker on this sale of the washington post to Bezos talking about [TS]

00:01:34   the the decline of the washington post over the last two decades in our peak it [TS]

00:01:38   they had a thousand staffers in the newsroom and now they're down to a was [TS]

00:01:42   passed off as sort of like man can you believe it that they only have six [TS]

00:01:46   hundred and fifty people in the news but that's incredible number of people for [TS]

00:01:51   publication that's an incredible people for any business to support I mean [TS]

00:01:54   that's you know I think now with all these internet businesses that we're all [TS]

00:01:59   running these days it's easy to forget how many people are involved in almost [TS]

00:02:04   every other kind of business especially one that has that has the amount of work [TS]

00:02:09   to do and the amount of physical things to deal with [TS]

00:02:12   as a daily newspaper would the exactly it's just stunning I mean I'm and maybe [TS]

00:02:19   even saying that after all the cuts that these newspapers have gone through in [TS]

00:02:24   the last decade or two [TS]

00:02:26   decline of major newspapers that that those that there's a lot of fat left to [TS]

00:02:30   be cut by boy i'd you know you can just see the house you know you know how how [TS]

00:02:38   easy it would be for these papers not to be making money [TS]

00:02:42   oh yeah I mean like just the the amount of work isn't what I mean I like I was [TS]

00:02:49   when I turn the magazine responsible for cutting about five checks and picking [TS]

00:02:55   one photo every two weeks and that was overwhelming and I can't do this anymore [TS]

00:03:01   business any idea of of something like you know the scale there at the fifty [TS]

00:03:07   operating on to do daily content and quite a lot of it in addition to all the [TS]

00:03:13   other additional stuff that you have to do that a lot of that a lot of magazines [TS]

00:03:17   and certainly a lot of online publications don't do with things like [TS]

00:03:19   fact-checking and levels of editing and stuff like that it's it's just [TS]

00:03:24   remarkable yeah I mean like an issue of The New Yorker every week is is a lot [TS]

00:03:29   like I i'm subscribe I am a subscriber in its giant ending their always growing [TS]

00:03:34   stack of unread issues and whenever I feel overwhelmed by the time I got [TS]

00:03:39   another one came I often just sit back and just flipped through it and just [TS]

00:03:43   think my condo but think about how much work goes into putting this thing out [TS]

00:03:47   that I can't keep up with every all I have to do is read the damn it's hard [TS]

00:03:51   enough to read it until I i've told this story I'm pretty sure I've told him on [TS]

00:03:56   the show before but it might have been a long time ago so I retail and it was now [TS]

00:04:00   it's probably too three years ago but I was in your favorite establishments I [TS]

00:04:05   was in Starbucks ice waiting for some sort of summary type drink [TS]

00:04:11   at the counter and there were two young women say 20 damage the point now where [TS]

00:04:19   I can't tell what's teenager lets you know twenties but I can say they were [TS]

00:04:24   twenty and they had a son it was it was the Sunday paper but it was they had a a [TS]

00:04:29   New York Times on the counter in front of him and the one young woman was [TS]

00:04:34   explaining the other hand it real and I know it sounds comical and I don't think [TS]

00:04:39   she was stupid but I just don't a distinction group on the internet she [TS]

00:04:43   certainly wasn't you know I wouldn't be surprised if she was in fact a college [TS]

00:04:47   student I don't think she was in any way you know living in a cave or something [TS]

00:04:51   but the one had a really had no idea what a newspaper was and and she said to [TS]

00:04:56   the other one way you mean they print this every day and the other ones in yes [TS]

00:05:01   exactly [TS]

00:05:03   and other one goes why would they do that and she was clearly impression she [TS]

00:05:10   was like staggered she had been flipping through this and like suddenly like it [TS]

00:05:14   occurred to her just how much was in a single days issue with the newspaper [TS]

00:05:18   again it was the sunday issue but even if you look at the daily you know it [TS]

00:05:22   it's just a few just think about the fact that comes out every single day 365 [TS]

00:05:28   days they've never take near Times's you know never missed a day [TS]

00:05:31   911 happens next day there's a new york times I think it's also a little [TS]

00:05:37   remarkable to think about how with newspapers and magazines these days too [TS]

00:05:44   but but with newspapers especially people pay for that and they pay for [TS]

00:05:48   every issue in some way you know some people pick it up every day and manually [TS]

00:05:52   and pay like the list price every day some people get it will assume most [TS]

00:05:56   people probably go delivered and subscribe but either way you're paying [TS]

00:06:00   for every issue of that and there are very few free newspapers and most of [TS]

00:06:05   them really suck and so there is this whole population of people who are [TS]

00:06:09   accustomed to paying for pretty much all of their content that they read all [TS]

00:06:14   their news and editorial to be reviewed and then there's the next generation [TS]

00:06:19   which I think I started with people roughly my age and maybe a little bit [TS]

00:06:23   younger [TS]

00:06:24   who the idea of paying every single day for the news that you're reading is [TS]

00:06:29   crazy [TS]

00:06:32   exactly I totally understand that and that is I think you and I are exactly in [TS]

00:06:38   between that era [TS]

00:06:40   you know like I was I was as a forty year old I'm at the very tail end of the [TS]

00:06:44   newspaper generation and i dont read it I haven't read a paper newspaper in [TS]

00:06:48   years now but I mean I certainly remember it I members subscribing to the [TS]

00:06:52   enquirer and just having worked there I remember thinking what a great perk it [TS]

00:06:58   was that every day there was just a free stack of both paper was a Philadelphia [TS]

00:07:02   town's recent company publishes two newspapers every day you could have you [TS]

00:07:07   worked there you just walk in pickup in choir and the daily news and it was the [TS]

00:07:11   type of place where it was perfectly acceptable to sit at your desk and read [TS]

00:07:16   the paper so great [TS]

00:07:19   like it was such a great thing cuz it was a hard thing at any other job you [TS]

00:07:24   could not you know the web has sort of made that as long as your screen you can [TS]

00:07:27   actually be like reading the news or whatever why looks like a you look [TS]

00:07:31   exactly like you look like when you're writing code whereas free web reading [TS]

00:07:39   his paper looking nothing like working it was slacking off well you could say [TS]

00:07:46   you were testing the paper done testing that's that's how I was browsing tumblr [TS]

00:07:51   when I was working but no but I'm just tell you that I did it when you were to [TS]

00:07:54   the enquirer do is provide acceptable to read the paper i mean it was assumed [TS]

00:07:58   they were so gonna get your work done during the day but you know it was also [TS]

00:08:00   assumed you were gonna read the paper I guess you could justify that by saying [TS]

00:08:04   we will you have to keep up with what's going on in your job you have to know [TS]

00:08:09   what you're putting out there right well it was assumed and hope for the people [TS]

00:08:13   all over the city were reading the paper on the job fair point I think maybe in [TS]

00:08:21   the same way where you work at like a distillery its ok to take a little nap [TS]

00:08:24   at lunch testing why don't people drink of work they do and I think we just [TS]

00:08:34   don't really hear about it a try to hide it or it's like it's like that that [TS]

00:08:39   crazy like quote startup culture where they have at the fridge full of beer in [TS]

00:08:42   the ping pong table which by the way I have now worked at multiple places that [TS]

00:08:46   call themselves startups had a fridge with beer in it and had a ping pong [TS]

00:08:50   table and that whole thing with people actually using those things that I've [TS]

00:08:55   never seen that happen to ping pong table I got used a couple times and then [TS]

00:09:00   no one ever look at it again because it was really distracting everybody else [TS]

00:09:03   and you would seem like a dick if you're sitting there playing ping pong at like [TS]

00:09:06   3 o'clock and when I was working and you didn't want to like stay later at work [TS]

00:09:10   after you were done you want to go home so there was never a good time to play [TS]

00:09:13   ping pong and drink beer at work right and there and the modern start-up office [TS]

00:09:18   is is not a traditional you know a bunch of hallways with offices with doors it's [TS]

00:09:23   a big open air high ceiling former warehouse type thing and everybody you [TS]

00:09:28   know has it best to cuba colored you know maybe even less say I think most [TS]

00:09:33   people who work in that environment would love a cubicle compared to what [TS]

00:09:36   they have right which is like a keyword square feet in the middle of the room [TS]

00:09:40   with everybody else in the wires everywhere among is actually one of [TS]

00:09:43   those things that could that might if if you use might actually drive people well [TS]

00:09:49   I don't even know how that had that became at the iconic thing that would [TS]

00:09:54   have because we think about here I like if you think about the reality of [TS]

00:09:57   playing ping pong first of all the balls I was flying off in some direction so [TS]

00:10:01   you not only is it loud and every single action in ping pong makes an audible [TS]

00:10:05   click know is possibly do so it loud and there's a lot of emotions which visually [TS]

00:10:11   distracting and then every eight seconds of play the ball goes rolling off [TS]

00:10:16   somewhere and the one of the players have to like walk across the room [TS]

00:10:18   someone could get it early sorry your desk for us I can get the ball and I [TS]

00:10:22   just just a regular enough that you couldn't really get into it like to see [TS]

00:10:26   how some people you know how some people like to work to white noise I could see [TS]

00:10:30   how an endless loop of like to perfect ping pong players you know like an [TS]

00:10:36   artificial loop of an endless ping pong ball he might be something some people [TS]

00:10:40   would get [TS]

00:10:40   into you know me because it's it's so constant right but real ping pong is [TS]

00:10:44   nothing like that is really a lot of Jason especially people who will be [TS]

00:10:49   playing at an office you probably aren't professional players whenever gravy [TS]

00:10:56   great I give you and I we could just goof off and I people as we don't care [TS]

00:11:01   especially if we can get one other person to work with us because if you [TS]

00:11:05   imagine i think thats maximum awkwardness an annoyance if you have two [TS]

00:11:09   people playing ping pong and one working we see what else can we get we should [TS]

00:11:15   also get a pinball machine and I hear people I think foosball tables are also [TS]

00:11:23   part of this this kind of culture of like things you'd expect in a young cool [TS]

00:11:26   hip start-up and foosball also doesn't make sense to because it's so loud and [TS]

00:11:32   even even if this even if the activity itself you find a way to make it make [TS]

00:11:36   less noise the people playing it [TS]

00:11:39   are loud like I've never heard to quiet people playing foosball you know like [TS]

00:11:43   you have to react it's actually like an intense game you have to constantly [TS]

00:11:47   react and so you know you're trying to work over there and and one-sided [TS]

00:11:51   officer here at the little clique clique clique of ping pong and yes I do hear it [TS]

00:11:54   doesn't take long with foosball to figure out that the only way to really [TS]

00:12:01   score is to hit the ball extremely hard [TS]

00:12:04   yeah pretty much and therefore very loud and it's one of the things like I mean [TS]

00:12:11   in in both places that I worked out that had things like this [TS]

00:12:16   my bosses at most places have been not that keen on the idea of you not working [TS]

00:12:21   lawyer at work and spoke just it's so ridiculously awkward even have the [TS]

00:12:25   possibility I mean we would have beers in our fridges for like a year that just [TS]

00:12:30   nobody drank is there is there was just no comfortable time where where be a [TS]

00:12:35   good idea to get up and get that beer in the fridge and drink it going until they [TS]

00:12:40   see that I didn't the way I've heard it described as that it's it's because [TS]

00:12:44   start-ups that type of start at least is attempting to attract [TS]

00:12:49   22 23 24 year olds if not younger who dropped out entirely skipped college [TS]

00:12:56   because those are the people who are most willing to put in insane hours and [TS]

00:13:01   don't have family and maybe don't have perspective in maybe our most thinking [TS]

00:13:06   that you'll just have that mindset when you're younger and you do you know truth [TS]

00:13:10   be told you also have more energy and they're relatively cheap and they're [TS]

00:13:13   relatively cheap that it's it's all of that is designed to sort of extended [TS]

00:13:19   adolescence further in the same way that you know you know no surprise all those [TS]

00:13:24   accoutrements are the same that typically decorate you know college frat [TS]

00:13:28   houses or apartments [TS]

00:13:30   exactly and you know Google for instance is famous for this kind of county [TS]

00:13:35   coaxing people out of college into Google and making it very nice and cozy [TS]

00:13:39   for them to continue the exact same lifestyle and mental state that they had [TS]

00:13:43   while they were in college because that will attract so many people from that [TS]

00:13:46   era and I forgot I think I told the story in a podcast before too but I once [TS]

00:13:53   had years ago I once had a meeting at a Google office in New York and we went in [TS]

00:14:01   and and there is the waiting area was just full of like smart people toys [TS]

00:14:08   weird like colorful things like those balls that you pull apart and expanded [TS]

00:14:13   like made of K'NEX [TS]

00:14:14   my contract back again with all the weird stuff like that and all of them [TS]

00:14:19   were just covered in dust literally nobody was playing with these things [TS]

00:14:25   like it was it was meant to look like this was like a fun place to be but [TS]

00:14:30   everything was covered in a layer of dust you could tell if they hadn't been [TS]

00:14:33   taxed possibly ever since the office was opened it was just a very strange thing [TS]

00:14:38   and then like the walls are all colorful and everything but like the halls or [TS]

00:14:43   just dead like nobody was around there there were people there in their office [TS]

00:14:49   is working you know there was nobody was like writing by and scooters or anything [TS]

00:14:52   it was like really a fairly boring bland cold feeling it's made to look like some [TS]

00:14:57   kind of fun playground but it just [TS]

00:14:59   the reality was very different yeah I've always liked sure you probably want you [TS]

00:15:06   know I am guessing you probably agree thank with Joel sports keys . there is [TS]

00:15:12   on how to have a you know how to run a company full of people who work in the [TS]

00:15:15   office together where they have to program and be quiet and pretty much its [TS]

00:15:19   building make a nice place and give everybody room with the door [TS]

00:15:23   oh yeah and and the nice days nice chair exactly they actually have been at their [TS]

00:15:28   office a few times and they really I mean he nailed it they and they don't [TS]

00:15:33   have enough space to had to give everybody a private office any mortgage [TS]

00:15:36   their dealing with like New York buildings so there's not a lot of like [TS]

00:15:41   window area you could put cubes and nobody wants an interior of this where [TS]

00:15:46   have they gotten bigger have they gotten bigger just on the bug tracker or are [TS]

00:15:51   they doing the Stack Overflow stuff to not clear on Stack Overflow expanded out [TS]

00:15:57   from their office they used to be an obvious and then I think pretty quickly [TS]

00:16:00   they they took over the floor above or below the regular fuck office and it is [TS]

00:16:06   separate companies so they like they invaded the next floor up or down I [TS]

00:16:09   forget which clogged and yeah and they end since then fucked recall so long [TS]

00:16:15   Strelow which is very popular and so i i would imagine there's probably a good [TS]

00:16:21   number of people go into that but before Stack Overflow before trial oh I think [TS]

00:16:25   FogBugz was really the vast majority i mean they had a couple of other products [TS]

00:16:28   over time but most of them I don't think a lot of traction is the big one and [TS]

00:16:33   they also couple years ago launched in the cold kill witches posted Mercurial [TS]

00:16:38   repository and actually it now it speaks get because of all the topic pretty cool [TS]

00:16:43   actually but they said the edits it's also developer stuff for the most part [TS]

00:16:46   and their office is incredible and I've I should mention of been there a few [TS]

00:16:51   times and kind of friend of the guys so I shouldn't you know obviously I'm a [TS]

00:16:53   little biased but I've never really nice but but from what I've read though it it [TS]

00:16:58   seems designed not to attract people like [TS]

00:17:01   an interview like wow this place looks like it's almost an amusement park it's [TS]

00:17:05   really designed to be like hey we'd like to make a place where if you want to [TS]

00:17:09   make a career and be here for like the next 10 15 years coming in you know [TS]

00:17:14   forty some weeks a year five days a week that you're gonna be really comfortable [TS]

00:17:19   and enjoy it right and be productive like Google was a lot of these companies [TS]

00:17:25   that are in our business are very much like the the West Coast Silicon Valley [TS]

00:17:31   College graduate like recent college graduate mentality and and the leaders [TS]

00:17:36   came from that from that culture they created the company in that culture and [TS]

00:17:40   they try to keep people in that culture Facebook from what I've heard is [TS]

00:17:43   similarly I don't know exactly but I heard similar we see the London Fog [TS]

00:17:48   Creek was founded by a couple of guys from New York in New York and you can [TS]

00:17:55   really tell and I'm pretty sure they both worked enough jobs between college [TS]

00:18:00   and Fog Creek that there wasn't just like we just got to college I continue [TS]

00:18:04   to keep the party going you know so you know the culture couldn't be more [TS]

00:18:11   different [TS]

00:18:11   of Google and Facebook and everything that they try to give their employees [TS]

00:18:16   the best like post college party experience and Fog Creek tries to give [TS]

00:18:23   people like a kind of a more conservative grown up but still geeky [TS]

00:18:30   and still professional version of that and really is the difference is night [TS]

00:18:34   and day and chances are if you like one of those environments you probably won't [TS]

00:18:39   like the other one and vice versa [TS]

00:18:41   yeah I think so how would you describe your home working environment sort [TS]

00:18:45   probably like a frat house right [TS]

00:18:47   constantly yeah there's any yeah it's it's pretty much the opposite of both of [TS]

00:18:54   those pics if you can figure that yeah there's there's one of me I'm in a room [TS]

00:19:01   although I do have the exact same desk as the fog free people that that [TS]

00:19:05   allegedly raises and lowers because I I stole it from Joel's post about them [TS]

00:19:10   years ago pretty slick wasn't that they would you negotiated [TS]

00:19:14   lifetime burned in exactly exactly like like like 2008 or something like a year [TS]

00:19:22   after Joel posted about getting these these awesome electric standing desks [TS]

00:19:28   looking for a couple of death some ik why don't we try these out actually [TS]

00:19:32   convince them to get for these and most people didn't like them that much but I [TS]

00:19:38   love mine and as part of my leaving a negotiated taking the desk with me which [TS]

00:19:44   involves driving my car into Manhattan taking apart the desk on a weekend [TS]

00:19:48   loading it was quite an ordeal but totally worth it I'm very happy at this [TS]

00:19:53   desk I would do it for a desk that it looked like a darker nights es people [TS]

00:20:01   love that thing I do more of a gallant fan myself before this decade is all I Q [TS]

00:20:06   Kalan but yeah the Joker is extremely popular kids got a name that cannot be [TS]

00:20:12   beat [TS]

00:20:12   oh yeah I would end its but it's it would be a pain if I will work in an [TS]

00:20:17   office instead of here at this desk but I got to take it with me to be a pain in [TS]

00:20:21   the ass to get home but I would totally do it I've often thought recently you [TS]

00:20:27   know I work at home and have a family now that we know we have like a kid [TS]

00:20:32   running around in a dog running around and you know I wanna hang out with that [TS]

00:20:35   I won't spend time with them is always something going on I wanna do while I'm [TS]

00:20:39   here working and so it's it's distracting a little bit you know to say [TS]

00:20:42   the least and so I thought about you know do I go out somewhere I have some [TS]

00:20:46   friends who like run some offices nearby I could I get a desk in them pretty [TS]

00:20:51   easily and just share a desk in the office and I thought you know should I [TS]

00:20:55   go out and do that mean I should I get more productive and and do that and you [TS]

00:20:58   know get a house a little bit but one of the biggest things that has kept me from [TS]

00:21:03   doing that so far is I would hate to have to make two awesome desk set-ups [TS]

00:21:08   home and one at the office and I couldn't just have one like it my office [TS]

00:21:13   desk sucked then I would not want to go in there and I would be able to get as [TS]

00:21:16   much work done but I also don't want to lose my home desk or move it there is [TS]

00:21:22   then my home starts to suck so like like when I was a tumbler with the exception [TS]

00:21:28   of the [TS]

00:21:28   standing desks I couldn't really practically get or afford home I i try [TS]

00:21:33   to duplicate the set up as much as possible [TS]

00:21:35   their Mac Pros in both places with 2 24 inch monitors in both places same [TS]

00:21:40   keyboard same mouse same mouse pad save headphones try to duplicate everything [TS]

00:21:45   exactly the same which is really nice actually because then like the univer- [TS]

00:21:49   like if you if you if you work somewhere like either at home or work you have a [TS]

00:21:54   really big monitor and the other place you don't like that sucks having made [TS]

00:21:58   that transition everyday you know so like I was trying to keep everything the [TS]

00:22:02   same in both places to make it just you know I'm a picky eater not the kind of [TS]

00:22:06   thing that I can do and the idea now of like trying to clone the setup I have [TS]

00:22:11   now at an office on my own experience at my own expense by another desktop or [TS]

00:22:18   laptop both places by in the monitor and keyboard and stuff [TS]

00:22:22   at so wasteful I don't do that same year another day another nice chair you know [TS]

00:22:27   it's just I'm very comfortable in my home environment and I think I think the [TS]

00:22:32   distractions are just gonna be you know a cost of doing business at home but [TS]

00:22:37   overall I think I like that better I was trying to Google I remember this from 10 [TS]

00:22:43   a.m. seriously 10 years ago but I had a friend who had a website Jason Perkins [TS]

00:22:49   had a website show us your workspace and it's a 404 now it was like you know [TS]

00:22:56   what's what is your desk look like so I it's been like three hours cleaning my [TS]

00:23:01   now followed by a head on it took a picture of mine that looked like it was [TS]

00:23:07   nice and send it in and described it all including the fact that the desk was [TS]

00:23:13   darker and then a year or two later there was a guy who put together a site [TS]

00:23:18   I think I swear had some kind of funny name that played it was totally wink [TS]

00:23:22   wink nudge nudge on a name I think it was called show us your jerker and [TS]

00:23:27   wanted permission to do it all use the same picture and say the Corsican well [TS]

00:23:35   that's one of the things like they were there is a 1750 still make it they [TS]

00:23:39   probably do but there was a period [TS]

00:23:41   back back like when everyone was buying like ass lawns and and building [TS]

00:23:46   computers and GeForce threes I 2001 ish back then there is a period where like [TS]

00:23:52   everybody every geek on the internet was telling every other week on the Internet [TS]

00:23:58   to buy this desk whenever the topic come up and it they get to keep the world is [TS]

00:24:04   full of directors and they're all like full of like giant our computers of [TS]

00:24:08   people running Linux and everything but there's there's a lot of dust floating [TS]

00:24:12   around I just like being able to tell people that i've i've had photos of [TS]

00:24:17   major published yeah and re-published people liked it so much they wanted to [TS]

00:24:21   republish [TS]

00:24:24   with that let's take a break for for sponsor our first sponsor is pain that's [TS]

00:24:31   ti and G what is to use a mobile service provider and they make sense no BS their [TS]

00:24:39   name VNO like a reseller on the nationwide Sprint network so what's it [TS]

00:24:44   mean how are they different why would you ever wanna go with them said in a [TS]

00:24:48   word you can save a lot of dough they have no contracts no early termination [TS]

00:24:54   fees no BS so the one thing you don't get you don't get subsidized from [TS]

00:25:00   pricing or something that does this type of thing where you buy a iphone whole [TS]

00:25:03   price or bring an existing phone but when you buy a subsidized phone you're [TS]

00:25:09   paying the cost anyway that's why your phone bills $120 a month they don't have [TS]

00:25:13   any bundling ride alongs services they have sizes from access thru XXL that you [TS]

00:25:20   just pick the service level you want it's easy to pick you know if you know [TS]

00:25:23   how badly even just roughly how many minutes you use how many text messages [TS]

00:25:27   and probably most applicable to listeners of this show how much data you [TS]

00:25:32   use a month you just pick a plan their trips with you think your sizes and they [TS]

00:25:36   all get built differently separately you can pick low minutes high data something [TS]

00:25:41   like that because you never talk on the phone be used to data you don't just say [TS]

00:25:44   hey I use a lot of data and you get stuck with lots of minutes you don't use [TS]

00:25:48   now here's where it gets even better they don't have any have anything like [TS]

00:25:52   overage charges or penalties if you use more than you thought you would you did [TS]

00:25:55   pay for what you used as if you picked a higher plan you get credit on unused [TS]

00:26:00   service if you pick a plan it's too big for you to use last 10 drops down to the [TS]

00:26:05   level that you actually needed and just credits the difference to you on your [TS]

00:26:09   next bill I mean couldn't be better [TS]

00:26:12   it brought to you from the people that do however the DNA test service who have [TS]

00:26:19   a great reputation and you know in a skinny business in a billion registering [TS]

00:26:23   domain names notoriously for scammers however has a great reputation [TS]

00:26:27   years-long great support and everybody knows they don't screw around same [TS]

00:26:32   reputation they're bringing it to mobile service you can have unlimited devices [TS]

00:26:38   on one plan you just pay like 66 bucks a month for each device and you can do [TS]

00:26:44   share minutes messages in megabytes some ice that's great [TS]

00:26:50   here's something here's the thing today they emphasized to me that everybody [TS]

00:26:54   should should know if they have a calculator on their website I'll give [TS]

00:26:59   you our element but you go there [TS]

00:27:02   plugin what you're using now what many minutes how much data text messages and [TS]

00:27:07   and it'll just tell you immediately how much money you would save per month over [TS]

00:27:12   your existing plan couldn't be easier and for me it was like a jaw-dropping [TS]

00:27:18   about my yeah just a mind $68 a month savings my mind came out to $5,000 small [TS]

00:27:28   cats they don't support the iPhone right now they have a thing you can sign up [TS]

00:27:31   it'll tell you when they do but I know there's lots of people out there who [TS]

00:27:35   don't have a front because you know like a friend John Siracusa because they [TS]

00:27:40   don't want to spend $120 a month on a subsidized plan when you buy it [TS]

00:27:43   subsidized iPhone and iPod touches [TS]

00:27:46   other types of phones that are lower costs [TS]

00:27:49   if every price per month is your main concern switching to something like Tim [TS]

00:27:54   man you could save [TS]

00:27:56   easily I'd seriously would probably save $1,000 a year here's where you go to [TS]

00:28:02   find out more [TS]

00:28:04   talk show . 10.com tal que si Jo W dot dot com and you can use the calculator [TS]

00:28:13   right there and find out how much money you would save my thanks to take a right [TS]

00:28:20   now where would you do it [TS]

00:28:27   wanting to lease it once I can't believe that a podcast so far about desks and [TS]

00:28:36   newspapers it seems typical you know it's it's summertime news happening [TS]

00:28:43   really basis is going to do with the washington post I have no idea I mean [TS]

00:28:51   you know it's it's worth clarifying so many people are gonna make a weird [TS]

00:28:57   assumption here but it's worth clarifying that Amazon didn't buy right [TS]

00:29:01   the Washington Post Jeff Bezos personally did like he set up a little [TS]

00:29:06   LLC I think for just himself to buy it with his money so it's it's not like [TS]

00:29:11   Amazon acquired it and I don't really know I mean I don't know much about Jeff [TS]

00:29:18   Bezos like personally what his personal interests and stuff are I do know that [TS]

00:29:23   he's really really smart he is he is one of the smartest people in business today [TS]

00:29:28   and he's he's ridiculously smart and an extremely good business person so I have [TS]

00:29:37   to imagine that you know maybe for him you know this this really isn't a whole [TS]

00:29:41   lot of money for him I don't think you know relatively speaking no you know [TS]

00:29:47   what actually works out almost shockingly to almost exactly one percent [TS]

00:29:52   of his network is his net worth is estimated at twenty five billion so a [TS]

00:29:58   250 million dollar purchases about 1% [TS]

00:30:01   his net worth that's one of those things where I guess I'm assuming that is net [TS]

00:30:05   worth is largely tied up in Amazon stock so it's not here twenty five billion [TS]

00:30:10   dollars in cash but still going that traces I mean it's not like I mean [TS]

00:30:15   Amazon could suffer some kind of serious stocks slide but they're not going to [TS]

00:30:19   you know those fifty percent of their value is $12 right hehe stuff i right [TS]

00:30:25   yeah so i dont i dont really know what why he bought this it really it could be [TS]

00:30:30   WAY less interesting than we all think it could just be that he just kind of [TS]

00:30:36   wanted to he wanted to support you know there were press has a long history of [TS]

00:30:39   being supported by very wealthy individuals are no more foundation for [TS]

00:30:42   families so there's there's definitely precedent for that for this to be very [TS]

00:30:48   uninteresting you know well maybe maybe and maybe I would say and this is one of [TS]

00:30:53   those things it's clearly super subjective but you know most people [TS]

00:30:59   consider that there's there's really only two top tier newspapers in the [TS]

00:31:03   United States right now the New York Times and The Wall Street Journal and [TS]

00:31:08   The Wall Street Journal doesn't really cover everything I mean you know I mean [TS]

00:31:13   it's right there in her name but they do have more of a specific focus on [TS]

00:31:18   business you don't really see many things like the way the washington post [TS]

00:31:25   broke this snowden an essay thing that washington journal why I mean the wash [TS]

00:31:30   the Wall Street Journal couldn't do that but they probably wouldn't have the type [TS]

00:31:34   of thing that more likely to break in the new york times but not really focus [TS]

00:31:39   more on iPhone rumors right exactly that's what their specialized in but not [TS]

00:31:44   too long ago and I remember it i mean [TS]

00:31:47   you know especially i mean you know the claim that you know the watergate thing [TS]

00:31:50   it wasn't made the Washington Post the watergate thing was sort of a sign of [TS]

00:31:55   how good the post was that you know in the seventies sixties seventies eighties [TS]

00:31:58   the washington post was a third top tier newspaper [TS]

00:32:03   the other thing I mean in this is the complete side note but I mean people [TS]

00:32:07   where I used to work the enquirer knew it was in the eighties The Inquirer [TS]

00:32:11   Philadelphia Inquirer was maybe the next cut below those guys and in fact I [TS]

00:32:16   believe this is true in a 1000 people who work there [TS]

00:32:19   believe I think that's what I heard it when I worked there but over the course [TS]

00:32:23   of the nineteen eighties the philadelphia inquirer one more Pulitzer [TS]

00:32:27   Prizes than any other newspaper in the United States anyway long story short [TS]

00:32:33   term maybe Bezos his plan is to help the Washington Post sort of get back to that [TS]

00:32:37   level could be you know and just that you know the country would be better [TS]

00:32:43   with it better archrival to the new york times just did you know keep everything [TS]

00:32:48   competitive yeah I mean I think I think we're better off with with just [TS]

00:32:52   generally more really great highly respected newspapers you know not fewer [TS]

00:32:57   and over time it seems like an hour just keep going down so hopefully this if you [TS]

00:33:02   can turn around and and and you know boost it and keep it up there and keep [TS]

00:33:06   the standards up and and dedication building higher and higher that'd be [TS]

00:33:12   great if you're near Times has had its own share of problems recently to you [TS]

00:33:16   know it's a kind of sucks to be like the one number one paper out there because [TS]

00:33:22   you're expected to be really perfect but they've they've had a lot of problems in [TS]

00:33:26   the last few years and questionable things they published a question [TS]

00:33:29   positions they've taken and Jayson Blair thing where they had the fabulous [TS]

00:33:35   trading in order working as a reporter [TS]

00:33:37   and was renamed the security reporter published all the nonsense about weapons [TS]

00:33:44   of mass destruction bright right and even just in our business like some of [TS]

00:33:49   their coverage on tech stuff is really abysmal they had that whole the whole [TS]

00:33:53   like Apple witch hunt thing last year that a lot of it was pretty weak and [TS]

00:33:58   yeah like a lot of this stuff is like overall I think I think they still are [TS]

00:34:03   the best if you had to pick one but I but they've had they can certainly [TS]

00:34:07   competition I think yeah I don't know why I think you're probably right that [TS]

00:34:15   there is no secret super plan I think you know the fact is that normal people [TS]

00:34:20   think holy shit the guy paid two hundred and fifty million dollars for the thing [TS]

00:34:24   he must want to do some huge with it and you know if you think of it as a whole [TS]

00:34:28   boy the guy spent one percent of his net worth on the newspaper maybe he just you [TS]

00:34:31   know just want to let them be and let them stop sweating you know the [TS]

00:34:37   profitability angle for now [TS]

00:34:39   special you know maybe maybe he wants something that's a little bit more like [TS]

00:34:44   a premium product as Amazon is in many ways really a lot like wal-mart it's [TS]

00:34:51   it's just like it's a cheap retailer in every possible sense it's it operates on [TS]

00:34:57   you know no margin as you pointed out many times you know operates on no [TS]

00:35:00   margin and generates no money and is all about [TS]

00:35:05   undercutting everything possible and sucking the profit out of things and you [TS]

00:35:11   know maybe he just wanted something else to be part of his life I do think those [TS]

00:35:15   two to his credit done to Amazon's credit I think there's a different angle [TS]

00:35:19   though in some ways there are Walmart like I mean the focus on low prices [TS]

00:35:25   the fact that and they had lot of the people most of the people maybe who work [TS]

00:35:30   for them do not have a really great job in a working in a Walmart is certainly [TS]

00:35:35   not a great job doesn't pay that well working in Amazon fulfillment center not [TS]

00:35:42   a great job as documented so wonderfully by mac mcclellan for his Aprilia [TS]

00:35:49   Atlantic forget to a last year and I i don't know if it was like a lawyers told [TS]

00:35:54   us we can't say it type thing but they didn't say that it was a Walmart and [TS]

00:36:00   Amazon fulfillment center just said it was a fulfillment center for a very [TS]

00:36:03   large Internet Retailer well cough cough it was everyone who was right its [TS]

00:36:09   relentless it was absolutely no almost like like an eight hour workout trying [TS]

00:36:14   to keep up but from a consumer standpoint I think there's a huge [TS]

00:36:20   difference which is there to me shopping at a wal-mart is a horrible horrifying [TS]

00:36:25   experience whereas amazon has always had to me a pretty good customer focus on [TS]

00:36:32   customer experience that they want people to be happy [TS]

00:36:36   yeah it's with Walmart it's easier it's easy to see that the good and bad from [TS]

00:36:43   it with Amazon it's a lot easier to just see the good and the bad is is more [TS]

00:36:49   hidden away and I'm personally know better than anyone else out there I shop [TS]

00:36:55   there all the time i buy it tons of stuff mammoth I'm pretty much anything [TS]

00:36:57   that I can get that Amazon sells I will generally buy it from them and almost [TS]

00:37:03   every week there's something from Amazon front of my house and so I really I [TS]

00:37:07   can't say that like you know I'm doing anything about this but they certainly [TS]

00:37:12   have a lot of the power of an option to use that term I think was invented [TS]

00:37:16   fairly recently described Walmart first round you know they they certainly have [TS]

00:37:21   that problem and a lot and they they exhibit a lot of the predatory behavior [TS]

00:37:25   that that bad news do certainly with the ebook publisher lawsuit thing they have [TS]

00:37:32   a lot of this has become more more relevant now and talked about more now [TS]

00:37:37   that you know the way Amazon deals with [TS]

00:37:40   their own suppliers and publishers is generally not good and and can be very [TS]

00:37:46   destructive if you're one of those suppliers or or if you're if you're in [TS]

00:37:49   that market or if your publisher Minato that there's a lot there's the [TS]

00:37:54   definition of market situation in which there is only one buyer bright like a [TS]

00:37:59   monopoly is there's only one seller of something funny is that there's only one [TS]

00:38:03   buyer and so it's a great example for instance if you look at the Evo [TS]

00:38:08   situation if the Kindle remains the dominant ebook platform and if it let's [TS]

00:38:13   say let's say I got nowhere or didn't exist and let's say I called little all [TS]

00:38:19   the little guys like oboe and Sony remained little then pretty much if you [TS]

00:38:23   were a publisher and wanted to sell e-books at all you pretty much have to [TS]

00:38:26   solve Amazon because they're the biggest buyer round or the only buyer around and [TS]

00:38:31   so Amazon can then dictate the terms back to their suppliers [TS]

00:38:37   well if you wanna sawdust you have to sell at this price period doesn't matter [TS]

00:38:41   we don't care if you can't support that we don't care if you've got a business [TS]

00:38:44   you have to solve this price or you have to give us these terms are you have to [TS]

00:38:48   give a give up this control to us and the suppliers as they really can't say [TS]

00:38:54   much in response is what are they gonna do if they pull out of Amazon store no [TS]

00:38:58   one can buy their stuff so it's a it's one of the various you know market [TS]

00:39:03   dysfunctions like monopolies that generally should be avoided as they [TS]

00:39:07   generally can cause more harm than good and there's a lot of law and this year I [TS]

00:39:12   don't think I don't remember reading a piece just a few years ago about how [TS]

00:39:17   wal-mart had changed the lawnmower industry yes I have read the same when [TS]

00:39:25   it was awesome it was what was the company that was the one that the buck [TS]

00:39:30   the trend I forget I forget it was the gist of it though is that there was one [TS]

00:39:35   company that I find the link I'm sure I will put it in the show I don't want to [TS]

00:39:40   interrupt the show just to find it [TS]

00:39:41   but the gist of it was there is a company that refused to bow to their [TS]

00:39:45   demands which was for a cheaper cheaper londoners no matter what I meant [TS]

00:39:48   equality and so they said you know what we know and if you don't do this we're [TS]

00:39:53   not going to say on all right don't tell her lawn mowers and so they stuck to [TS]

00:39:58   yeah there you go you could send me the link [TS]

00:40:00   perfect I see my keywords to land and so they stopped selling them to other [TS]

00:40:09   resellers [TS]

00:40:10   the company snapper with higher quality obviously higher price but with much [TS]

00:40:15   higher quality and thrived but that more or less that the Walmart way of selling [TS]

00:40:20   a driven all the other makers of lawn mowers to make crappier lawn mowers that [TS]

00:40:24   had lower prices because they effectively had didn't have a monopoly [TS]

00:40:30   online orders because wal-mart did make one of them but because so many places [TS]

00:40:35   around the country only place where people want to buy a lawn mowers Walmart [TS]

00:40:39   they had a monopoly on them exactly and and and walmart has has quite a lot of [TS]

00:40:46   this in in a lot of industries in person but it's it's especially I think you [TS]

00:40:51   know walmart has it doesn't really matter as much for for brick-and-mortar [TS]

00:40:55   retail because even though there are way more people who buy things at [TS]

00:40:58   brick-and-mortar stores and online still I think they're still it's a lot harder [TS]

00:41:02   to really build up at room and absentee in brick-and-mortar whereas online or in [TS]

00:41:09   digital technology especially if you look at the book is ample you have DRAM [TS]

00:41:13   and you have you have closed devices so like it'd be really easy it's it was [TS]

00:41:18   really easy for Amazon to build up this monopoly by by having a Dr employees [TS]

00:41:23   because you can't you can't read those books and anything else that you buy [TS]

00:41:28   your gonna keep buying candles in there for you to keep on Kindle books because [TS]

00:41:30   you can't you can't really put books easily onto a candle from anything else [TS]

00:41:34   something like imagine if imagine if Apple never remove the DRM from the [TS]

00:41:40   iTunes Music Store music mp3's or if they never remove the DRM from that and [TS]

00:41:48   never convince labels to let them do that for other good reasons [TS]

00:41:53   if you were if people were sick iTunes US number one music reseller [TS]

00:41:57   the number of music so everything in the world and certainly the country so [TS]

00:42:01   imagine if tons people's music is still only worked on Apple devices on iPhones [TS]

00:42:07   and iPods and Macs and Windows but still like if you got an Android phone and you [TS]

00:42:14   couldn't sink half of your music to it that would be a pretty big problem for [TS]

00:42:18   Android and for the sales of their devices so the reduction of the RMN that [TS]

00:42:24   in this area of the industry [TS]

00:42:26   dramatically increase the possibility of competition and is better for everybody [TS]

00:42:30   any books you don't have that right and so like there's there's more of an [TS]

00:42:36   ability for one company to continue dominating there because they already [TS]

00:42:41   have a big advantage from making decent devices for a few years but now like you [TS]

00:42:46   know you look at the Barnes and Noble Nook to Division a shutdown by looking [TS]

00:42:50   at other people like Google and Sony they're still making decent readers and [TS]

00:42:55   they have they have somewhat of a chance because people will sell to them under [TS]

00:42:58   the agency model prices are the same as Amazon now they weren't for a long time [TS]

00:43:02   because they couldn't lose money every book so now they're president the same [TS]

00:43:05   at least temporarily and but if you are ready if you've ever owned a Kindle you [TS]

00:43:12   probably have some kind of selection of Kindle books that are all Dr and every [TS]

00:43:18   Kindle books on the bookstore is darkness far as I know so those are all [TS]

00:43:21   dear I'm so you can't switch devices that losing the books you've already [TS]

00:43:24   bought and so the chances of a competitor coming in an ever making a [TS]

00:43:29   dent in that market share are extremely low right the longer it goes it doesn't [TS]

00:43:33   take too long bills right doesn't take more than a couple of years of you [TS]

00:43:37   reading before you feel like you've got too many books to switch exactly which [TS]

00:43:43   is you know the iPad checks that up in an interesting way in you were devoted [TS]

00:43:51   Kindle reader and you had a decent sized collection you have an iPad now and is [TS]

00:43:59   your main reading device you can feel like well I can if I prefer the iBook [TS]

00:44:03   app or the you know the interface or just the way the books look I can just [TS]

00:44:08   start buying my books and I can still access my Kindle books because they're [TS]

00:44:13   there and my Kindle app on the same device but that's dependent on both [TS]

00:44:19   Apple continuing to allow that can live to be there and Amazon going to publish [TS]

00:44:23   that you know either one of these companies could decide any time in the [TS]

00:44:27   future that it's now it's now worth the risk of losing those customers to [TS]

00:44:34   protect the rest of the customer base and to protect the rest the monopoly [TS]

00:44:36   yeah did you see the the DOJ is proposed settlement for Apple the punishment if [TS]

00:44:44   you want to call ya I didn't read the whole thing is nobody does except me I [TS]

00:44:48   Patel but I I'll I read like the reporting of it and [TS]

00:44:52   it does seem a little extreme one part I don't get as I didn't get the part about [TS]

00:44:59   having to not having to avoid the deals they've already made with the Big Six [TS]

00:45:05   publishers i guess its Big Five now has two emerged and not have five years [TS]

00:45:13   where they can negotiate new ones who accepted didn't say you can't negotiate [TS]

00:45:17   new ones that you can't negotiate new ones that something something raise [TS]

00:45:24   prices I'm not sure what that means like doesn't mean that they're not allowed to [TS]

00:45:27   sell I box for five years very confusing to me what they could negotiate turns [TS]

00:45:34   seemed very draconian [TS]

00:45:38   the part that was weird was was the part of it that said that basically have to [TS]

00:45:41   let Amazon sell everything they're out now and let it ride all competing book [TS]

00:45:45   stores sell things without you know bypassing the purchase Commission and [TS]

00:45:49   rules and just sell things happen that that seems pretty over-reaching to me is [TS]

00:45:55   that that impacts way more than just ebooks and way more than just Amazon [TS]

00:46:01   well what do you think I would do with what they do it but only with e-book [TS]

00:46:06   sellers and almost certainly they would only do it in the united states and it's [TS]

00:46:13   a good point although Amazon Amazon has been pretty poor so far at expanding [TS]

00:46:20   their marketplace for digital stuff outside of the USA they have started [TS]

00:46:23   doing it in recent years but I think they're they're way behind so i i think [TS]

00:46:27   most of Apple's competition with Amazon is in the you s probably by a pretty big [TS]

00:46:31   margin but yeah I think you're right that if Apple had to do this they would [TS]

00:46:37   be like the narrowest possible implementation of this rule but no I [TS]

00:46:44   don't see that happening I mean it it would be so dramatic I I have to imagine [TS]

00:46:53   that Apple will fight that so hard that they will manage not to have to do that [TS]

00:46:58   here's the here's the actual ruling me read it I really [TS]

00:47:02   you know some of those things where I don't know how to interpret it did [TS]

00:47:06   require Apple to terminate its existing agreements with the five major [TS]

00:47:11   publishers with which it conspired and to refrain for five years from entering [TS]

00:47:21   new ebook distribution contracts which would restrain apple from competing on [TS]

00:47:27   price like I think that the which would restrain apple from competing on price [TS]

00:47:32   claus is the key one but I don't know what that means it sounds like you can't [TS]

00:47:39   make a most favored nation clause for five years I guess so I guess that's [TS]

00:47:45   what it means but to me it's it's a bizarre bizarre but it's a one-sided [TS]

00:47:53   focus on competition where it's free so focused solely on competition of [TS]

00:47:58   Consumer Price is Right consumer's perspective on what do I have to pay to [TS]

00:48:04   get the new Stephen King novel and has nothing to do with the competition from [TS]

00:48:09   doors to publishers at the wholesale division which was 0 competition before [TS]

00:48:18   Apple entered the market with iBooks it was we're going to sell your books for [TS]

00:48:22   $9.99 and it's this is a weird case because you know they independently they [TS]

00:48:30   want to be somewhat punitive because they want to discourage us and you know [TS]

00:48:34   give Apple some kind of Saipan the risk here but almost every punitive action [TS]

00:48:39   that they can take in this in this situation is either going to not matter [TS]

00:48:43   at all to anybody because it's too small in which case account defeats the [TS]

00:48:47   purpose of being a punitive action or it's going to potentially really hard in [TS]

00:48:53   Amazon's monopoly in the future or be very bad for consumers and some other [TS]

00:48:58   way so it's like they they they have to somehow give Apple a smack on the wrist [TS]

00:49:03   in a way that doesn't hurt consumers or doesn't hand Amazon enjoy a monopoly and [TS]

00:49:10   I don't know if that's really possible it's certainly the the things they've [TS]

00:49:13   discussed so far the proposal they've made so far [TS]

00:49:16   are don't satisfy that they they they generally give away too much to Amazon [TS]

00:49:21   and hurt consumers too much and so I don't i think is going to be a very [TS]

00:49:26   tricky thing to watch it and very tricky thing for the DOJ and Apple workout [TS]

00:49:30   because it is it's a weird it's a weird thing that almost anything they do here [TS]

00:49:35   is going to be is going to have some kind of giant negative consequence to it [TS]

00:49:40   yeah I just don't think the antitrust laws or an uneven saying that Amazon [TS]

00:49:44   should be condemned for its behavior I really don't i mean that's you know I [TS]

00:49:50   think they should be seen as predatory but maybe predatory in a natural way but [TS]

00:49:54   or in a healthy market competition Lee but I just don't think that when it [TS]

00:49:58   comes to antitrust stuff that anything on the books is set up for a company [TS]

00:50:05   like Amazon which isn't focused on profits [TS]

00:50:09   everything else on the books was all based on the idea of of jacking up [TS]

00:50:14   prices unfairly you know like i think is rockefeller [TS]

00:50:19   bought up all the railways not because you want to make money on the route [TS]

00:50:22   railways per se but so that he could charge all of the other competition in [TS]

00:50:27   the steel industry exhibit in amounts of money to ship deal around the country [TS]

00:50:31   when you and then let you s deal you know ship it you know [TS]

00:50:36   cheaper because he on the railroad you know actually isn't that different from [TS]

00:50:41   Apple's 30% well you know build your own railroad I guess I guess that's what hit [TS]

00:50:51   in front of fillers take place but anyway it was all about jacking up [TS]

00:50:54   profits you know right now he still was more profitable because he controlled [TS]

00:50:58   the railroad nothing is none of the laws are set up for [TS]

00:51:02   companies like Amazon that doesn't want to jack up the prices after they control [TS]

00:51:09   the market what's tricky also you know you you have you have the issue of [TS]

00:51:13   predatory pricing which Amazon you know bye bye willingly losing money on every [TS]

00:51:19   book sold for years just to get a giant foothold in the market and then later [TS]

00:51:24   presumably raise prices to a profitable level or at least to breakeven level and [TS]

00:51:28   and certainly to crush competitors like selling something substantially below [TS]

00:51:33   your own cost for a long time and losing tons and tons of money is a clear case [TS]

00:51:38   predatory pricing but first of all there this is a very common thing in the tech [TS]

00:51:44   business in general you know when when a start as it's called disruption it's a [TS]

00:51:49   good thing when it does it you know nobody complains that when when Google [TS]

00:51:54   comes and wipes out some small industrial software that was previously [TS]

00:51:58   paid or or at least you know full of ads or something [TS]

00:52:02   well some of us who comes in and well yeah we do but nobody else can you know [TS]

00:52:06   who comes in and undercut everybody making something free the previously [TS]

00:52:09   wasn't free and and people call that disruption or they call that that's [TS]

00:52:13   great that they're saving us from this from this evil person trying to make [TS]

00:52:16   money and but really this predatory pricing and in the rest of those in [TS]

00:52:23   other industries that's generally either completely infeasible or potentially [TS]

00:52:28   illegal or other problems but I think the what what makes it hard to get any [TS]

00:52:34   real policy against and it makes it hard for the DOJ to take action against stuff [TS]

00:52:38   like this or for people to make more laws about predatory pricing is that I [TS]

00:52:43   don't think the public really agrees whether that's a bad thing or not I [TS]

00:52:47   think a lot of trade off there's a tradeoff writer but they don't see that [TS]

00:52:50   trade off because the bright and shiny of free [TS]

00:52:54   blinds them it's it's like a flashlight neurons and they don't see the downside [TS]

00:52:58   to it right i mean i've seen and I'm sure you have to like responses to [TS]

00:53:01   anything I've said or written about the Amazon Apple iBook case there's extreme [TS]

00:53:08   division between the sides of people who [TS]

00:53:11   who agree that it's kind of crappy that Amazon can willingly lose money for [TS]

00:53:15   years on on everything for a long time and drive competitors out of business [TS]

00:53:19   and any other half of the respondents are like well this is great for [TS]

00:53:24   consumers the prices are lower what's the problem exactly known as people are [TS]

00:53:28   are more vociferous and a lot of them have long memories and I used to buy I [TS]

00:53:35   read all the time i used to buy bestsellers for $9.99 and now they cost [TS]

00:53:38   $13.99 right and there's everybody right and so do you no good for them how can [TS]

00:53:43   you know you're an apple show that you don't see that Apple you know fix the [TS]

00:53:47   market on this thing people don't realize you read the actual case and [TS]

00:53:51   Apple AAPL you know all they did really didn't fix prices are fair to say that [TS]

00:53:58   position but they didn't set prices they said a range of prices but all they [TS]

00:54:04   really did was convinced the resellers that are the publishers that their way [TS]

00:54:08   out of the Amazon problem was to switch to the agency which specifies writing a [TS]

00:54:15   contract that Amazon can lower the price that they have to sell for this price [TS]

00:54:20   the price you the publisher pics and then send them thirty percent right and [TS]

00:54:26   I've seen people say that their publishers were stupid because thirty [TS]

00:54:31   percent they were getting out of $14.99 agency model was less than the five or [TS]

00:54:40   six bucks that they were getting when they were selling them wholesale to [TS]

00:54:43   Amazon for fifteen sixteen dollars and is only selling them for $10 ones they [TS]

00:54:47   sell them to Amazon wholesale it doesn't matter what they sell for retail but I [TS]

00:54:51   don't think it was stupid because what they were doing and what their concern [TS]

00:54:55   was was that Amazon was changing the long-term perspective of people on what [TS]

00:55:00   you should pay for a new book exactly you know and so so it [TS]

00:55:05   Amazon could at any point in the future being the ebook monopoly they could at [TS]

00:55:09   any point in the future say alright publishers before we buy our books for [TS]

00:55:13   whatever it was 12 bucks or whatever the wholesale price was now willing to pay [TS]

00:55:18   seven so we can start making some money by selling them at 10 so you don't like [TS]

00:55:22   it you can take your book somewhere else and not [TS]

00:55:24   have anybody with the Kindle be able to read them and there are a lot of [TS]

00:55:26   companies that have you know wisely consider the price of the product part [TS]

00:55:32   of the brand you know that it doesn't have to be a luxury item you know about [TS]

00:55:37   it but it is true that for like luxury items part of it is the brand I mean you [TS]

00:55:41   know the fact that a nice car costs more is part of the brand of prestige in the [TS]

00:55:45   fact that a Rolex is an expensive watch as part of their brand I mean there's a [TS]

00:55:50   reason you can't buy a new Rolex on Amazon they won't they just won't allow [TS]

00:55:54   them to be resellers right now products like that and they wouldn't allow a [TS]

00:55:58   reseller to sell it below the retail price exactly i mean an end and this is [TS]

00:56:04   the App Store works and apple and like the Apple App Store works on the agency [TS]

00:56:09   model and we're all fine for its great you know Apple does not adjust the [TS]

00:56:13   prices we do and Apple takes a fixed percentage of the of the price as their [TS]

00:56:18   commission and we get a fixed percentage of whatever we set back back when I was [TS]

00:56:22   well as the owner of an Android app briefly I one of the big problems with [TS]

00:56:29   putting it on the on the Amazon Android App Store it when US with no space is [TS]

00:56:36   that Amazon takes all of the control from that Amazon get the ability to set [TS]

00:56:41   the price to whatever they want [TS]

00:56:42   you set the price but an Amazon can change it without your permission [TS]

00:56:47   whenever they want to for whatever reason and do they hate you the price [TS]

00:56:49   you saturday did not know they just pay you a price of whatever they say yeah [TS]

00:56:53   exactly like we did investor for Android and put it on the Amazon Appstore he [TS]

00:56:58   said it's 499 same as iPhone and then it shows up on the store and its 199 yeah I [TS]

00:57:04   30 cents in their defense I don't know if that's still the case but when they [TS]

00:57:09   launched at that was the case and it certainly said that way for at least a [TS]

00:57:13   year so I'm hoping it's no longer the case but it wouldn't surprise me if it [TS]

00:57:16   is because that's a very similar deal they make with our Kindle content and so [TS]

00:57:22   it's really like I had the same the same problem with when I put the magazine on [TS]

00:57:28   the Kindle Store which I also have since before right before so little and I [TS]

00:57:33   agreed let's take it off the Kindle Store because it was it was a [TS]

00:57:36   royal pain and it was not worth it and the app was terrible and the tools were [TS]

00:57:41   awful etc but Amazon's all about taking control away from people because they [TS]

00:57:47   they think they know best and you know you can't fault them for that Apple [TS]

00:57:51   thinks they know best for lots of areas too but but Amazon things they know best [TS]

00:57:55   for pricing is there the retailer and you're right like it when when pricing [TS]

00:58:00   is a part of your brand or or if if changes like you know let's say you sold [TS]

00:58:06   your app on the Google Play Store for five bucks yet right but let's let's say [TS]

00:58:12   supposed supposing somebody can sell on Apple and Google Play Store for $5 maybe [TS]

00:58:17   one person can I don't know and if and if they if they put on the Amazon [TS]

00:58:22   Appstore so they can get an uncontrolled fires and stuff is pretty important than [TS]

00:58:27   Amazon then selling it for like $3 well why would anybody then buy it from the [TS]

00:58:32   Play Store 45 when they can buy from Amazon store 439 people a lot of people [TS]

00:58:39   get that I think people who don't have a product that they have to set the price [TS]

00:58:42   for and who are hoping to make it successful in the long run they did it [TS]

00:58:46   just never occurs to them like just you know and and the funny thing is is the [TS]

00:58:51   people who really care about e-book prices you know the people you know [TS]

00:58:54   really upset the prices went from 9912 9913 end of books that mean that's the [TS]

00:59:00   whole reason is that they read a lot of books but I don't think they're thinking [TS]

00:59:03   about the fact that Amazon strategy could seriously decrease the quality of [TS]

00:59:09   books over time because they would it would dry up all the the meager profits [TS]

00:59:14   that are involved and it's certainly nobody you know for every you know [TS]

00:59:17   Stephen King there's you know most people who write novels you know that's [TS]

00:59:22   not something people get into to make a lot of money its famously pretty poor [TS]

00:59:27   paying and endeavour now I'm curious in case you haven't lost your entire [TS]

00:59:33   audience yet by us not talking about tech promotions episode do you think [TS]

00:59:37   Apple's doing that to software pricing inadvertently or or indirectly by there [TS]

00:59:43   by the structure of the App Store [TS]

00:59:45   good question let's come back to it after break free [TS]

00:59:51   yeah but I was taking a break I want to tell you about our second sponsor is 68 [TS]

00:59:59   they've spotted the show before you might remember them or maybe they [TS]

01:00:03   sponsored either way though I bet if you're hearing as you've heard of them [TS]

01:00:07   pics aid has a system framework that lets you use CSS to style your native [TS]

01:00:17   iOS apps sort of like a much fancier much much more robust version of the [TS]

01:00:23   system that invented for Vesper but its real CSS and you can change the entire [TS]

01:00:30   look of your app you can design the look of your app without changing the source [TS]

01:00:36   code you can even load your CSS remotely so you could change the look of your app [TS]

01:00:42   or fix a layout but without submitting a new version of the app through the [TS]

01:00:46   streets just change the CSS the pics a framework is completely free right now [TS]

01:00:52   that I was only but Mac and Android versions are coming to very soon you can [TS]

01:00:59   dynamically style native mobile apps these oranges web use these are native [TS]

01:01:03   apps that use CSS to style the native controls where you go to find out more [TS]

01:01:10   if you're a developer who wants to see this easy just go to pick Sayed BIA X 80 [TS]

01:01:15   e.com piccsy.com I thanks to them that's pretty cool very cool [TS]

01:01:25   too good to be true but it's not and I know everybody out there my first [TS]

01:01:27   thought when I want to sponsor was it was things to your whole Apple Web you [TS]

01:01:31   and I thought I don't even know if I can accept that but nobody wants that now [TS]

01:01:35   then I found out it was actually a way to use real CSS and you know how do you [TS]

01:01:39   find a designer no CSS styles big difference huge difference to my thanks [TS]

01:01:48   to an alright so as Apple doing that software with the App Store [TS]

01:01:54   maybe but maybe not because I don't know that selling apps like the kind of apps [TS]

01:02:01   that we make was all that driving a business before the App Store well I [TS]

01:02:12   think if you were if you're one of the people selling apps before the App Store [TS]

01:02:16   if you were doing any business at all you're probably doing a decent amount of [TS]

01:02:20   business like I I think the middle class of AB sellers before the App Store was [TS]

01:02:27   very very small by comparison but the average income was probably [TS]

01:02:31   significantly higher whereas now that middle class of apps hours in the App [TS]

01:02:36   Store is way larger probably order of magnitude larger but I think the median [TS]

01:02:41   income is probably way lower [TS]

01:02:44   you know well below the player most people could could make it there [TS]

01:02:48   full-time job [TS]

01:02:49   yeah so there might be a lot more people who a lot more people who wish that [TS]

01:02:55   their app development efforts were supporting them full-time India let's [TS]

01:03:01   say you know not just doing consulting work but actually you designing making [TS]

01:03:06   choosing you saw him earlier no-name having it be you know your income your [TS]

01:03:13   partner level 3 four-person teams full-time job maybe a lot a lot of them [TS]

01:03:18   who wish it were so but aren't making it but I bet that there's more developers [TS]

01:03:23   doing then maybe it is I think it's important to point out the consulting [TS]

01:03:30   angle here I mean I don't have any numbers to to indicate how how big this [TS]

01:03:35   is but the impression I get especially since we want to go to the BBC every [TS]

01:03:39   year and every year to be ready seen a year you're hanging out with people [TS]

01:03:44   online somewhere if you ask anyone with what they do and the vast majority of [TS]

01:03:49   people who I mean there are concerns and meet they might have like 12 as they do [TS]

01:03:55   on their own but the vast majority of their income comes from consulting work [TS]

01:03:59   and so i think there's obviously there's like there's these two major types of [TS]

01:04:05   app developers [TS]

01:04:06   and a lot of people make income just fine from consulting and that that [TS]

01:04:13   business i think is fine because there's there's always going to be money in [TS]

01:04:16   making apps for companies for whom the sale of the paid app if it is even a [TS]

01:04:22   paid app is not their primary business you know the app is there to support [TS]

01:04:26   something else maybe it's a web service maybe at some of the business but the [TS]

01:04:30   app is there to support something else that's why most free or are you can [TS]

01:04:33   always get paid may be that or a device right like I just picked up there wasn't [TS]

01:04:40   a Kickstarter was the other one IndieGoGo thing called the misfit shine [TS]

01:04:43   I can't get into a show but its fitness tracker Targa Fitbit type then just came [TS]

01:04:53   here the day but they have an app that you use to sync it with so the app is in [TS]

01:04:57   the business the business is selling his fitness trackers but there's an app for [TS]

01:05:01   the iPhone that you can use to sync the device to and that your interface to [TS]

01:05:06   offload your data as you walk around and you know that sort of thing does exactly [TS]

01:05:12   and they can pay for that by the Prophet on those you know what I have I have [TS]

01:05:15   nest thermostat to my house and a nest has a horrible app that somebody was [TS]

01:05:19   paid to make and you know that there's money in that I have no idea of misfit [TS]

01:05:23   shine wrote their own a burn up and I'm just saying I would be surprised if they [TS]

01:05:27   hired consultants to do it because they don't need a full time they're not gonna [TS]

01:05:30   keep making apps are not selling stable about state does need an app that can [TS]

01:05:35   sync with this and you know periodically update for new OS versions and stuff [TS]

01:05:39   like that but I'm sure that a lot of consulting as for stuff like that [TS]

01:05:42   oh yea or 480 for big companies that need an app that they need an outlet for [TS]

01:05:46   marketing purposes you know somebody's making the Bank of America Afghanistan [TS]

01:05:49   like that there's and you know when I talk to consultants I've never heard of [TS]

01:05:54   anybody saying oh yeah most of our business comes from other individuals [TS]

01:05:57   who were selling a paid app on the App Store libete there are no one's hiring [TS]

01:06:01   consultants so obviously there's a giant section of the app ecosystem the [TS]

01:06:07   financial system especially that you know people are getting paid to build [TS]

01:06:11   iPhone apps that are making money through other means besides charging [TS]

01:06:14   money for the apps and that's fine that's always gonna be fine [TS]

01:06:18   but then there's the other part of it is people like us and all the people who [TS]

01:06:22   were trying to make money directly by selling their app or selling a nap with [TS]

01:06:27   a web service attacks or or something like that and and that i think is is [TS]

01:06:32   what's what's not a potentially threatened by by the App Store pricing [TS]

01:06:38   trends I don't know it's hard to say no I I think I've written about the top [TS]

01:06:44   lists in the past I would say the top list is probably the biggest contributor [TS]

01:06:50   to the race to the bottom and pricing into the rise of in-app purchase but I [TS]

01:06:56   don't get a lot of these things are like like a lot of people show me their apt [TS]

01:07:01   they work on and they're terrible and they complain that no one's buying it [TS]

01:07:05   but you know I look at it I don't tell them I i suppose it's nice to know but I [TS]

01:07:09   look at it I wouldn't buy that you know and oil alive it's just like when you [TS]

01:07:14   have hundreds of thousands of developers many of whom were trying to make their [TS]

01:07:17   own apps there's gonna be a pretty big problem of competition and of flooding [TS]

01:07:24   the market and so a lot of times like if you make a really great app in a [TS]

01:07:28   category that's very very crowded it might not matter because that like there [TS]

01:07:33   are so many other great apps category you're gonna have a hard time getting [TS]

01:07:35   traction and there's a weird it's not quite a catch 22 but it's a vicious [TS]

01:07:42   circle where if you price that low enough that people are like oh I'll buy [TS]

01:07:46   that $0.99 you even if a lot of them do it you can't make enough to make it [TS]

01:07:51   sustainable and if you price the appt at a sustainable price you don't get enough [TS]

01:07:55   people to buy it because they say I'm not gonna buy a $4.99 after $7.99 nap [TS]

01:08:01   when I can get this other one for free or for $0.99 exactly and they go start [TS]

01:08:06   going through these $0.99 lunges the free ones until they find one that I do [TS]

01:08:13   wonder you know I I went to this briefly on my own podcast few weeks ago but I do [TS]

01:08:17   wonder you know how [TS]

01:08:20   is the problem that you know Apple isn't doing this right in the market and it's [TS]

01:08:25   hurting us or is the problem that the market is really moving on and that we [TS]

01:08:29   don't accept it that they know they are are we like the record companies in the [TS]

01:08:33   early two thousands where the market moving on to a totally different model [TS]

01:08:37   of distribution and profitability and we're sitting here saying why can't we [TS]

01:08:41   saw an album for $18 anymore something is wrong [TS]

01:08:44   right you know like how much like are we the ones with our heads in the sand [TS]

01:08:48   missing that the whole market is moving towards the other way of doing things [TS]

01:08:53   and we are yelling about the old way of doing things not being as profitable [TS]

01:08:57   anymore you know whose problem is it really well I i certainly given a lot of [TS]

01:09:04   thought that you know with faster and I would like to think that what we've done [TS]

01:09:11   is try to meet them in the middle and maybe even bend over further I mean even [TS]

01:09:15   just a few years ago if the same idea had been proposed proposed to me means [TS]

01:09:20   they've whiskers and Brent Simmons making a nap together I don't think I [TS]

01:09:26   ever thought we'd sell it for only $4.99 cause I just couldn't see you know [TS]

01:09:31   making something of the quality that we would be striving for in selling it for [TS]

01:09:34   that price you know certainly if you go back far enough free i phone you know it [TS]

01:09:43   would have been a Mac App never I mean I can't remember I can remember maybe like [TS]

01:09:48   three four five times buying a Mac app for five bucks I mean it's just didn't [TS]

01:09:53   never made any sense that if you'd make so little from a $5 Mac app that it [TS]

01:09:59   never made it you might as well [TS]

01:10:01   really might as well make its free right i mean you know if you saw this as a Mac [TS]

01:10:04   App in 2006 it would probably 30 bucks probably [TS]

01:10:10   $29.99 exactly maybe maybe at the lowest $24.99 [TS]

01:10:16   and I even remember over the years during fireball specially Pre App Store [TS]

01:10:23   you know or sometimes like a new app would come out it was kind of clear that [TS]

01:10:28   it was from like a really young kid like a really talented you know 18 19 20 year [TS]

01:10:35   old you know somewhere around there who is coming from the teenage perspective [TS]

01:10:40   of not having money probably not a credit card and being really smart like [TS]

01:10:46   smart enough to make cool app and therefore easily being smart enough to [TS]

01:10:50   pirate all of this software that they wanted to know you and thinking that [TS]

01:10:54   you've you know you're competing with piracy on pricing which is the mentality [TS]

01:10:58   you come out of naturally at that point I certainly did you know when I was in [TS]

01:11:04   college in that age and then coming out with a really cool AB and selling it for [TS]

01:11:09   you know I'm a cap for $6.99 and I remember writing privately to some of [TS]

01:11:13   them not publicly and say hey this is really good at you should charge more [TS]

01:11:18   you should charge at least 15 bucks you should think about charging 20 bucks and [TS]

01:11:23   you know and here's the reasons why and you should you know change the price [TS]

01:11:27   sooner than later because the longer you go at this time or your going to [TS]

01:11:31   establish that that's the price it should be and then you know I can't [TS]

01:11:35   remember off hand but I remember a few cases they did it and they'd write back [TS]

01:11:39   and say wow you know my sales stayed the same myself even when not because people [TS]

01:11:45   think what happened is that must be good at the pricing as we are presently sends [TS]

01:11:52   a message and if you're making an iPhone app for $5 somebody gets to that pic and [TS]

01:11:59   they say first of all oh my god $5 or so much money but then they look at the [TS]

01:12:02   reviews and they said well a lot of people have bought this at $5 so there [TS]

01:12:07   is even though they want to believe that they don't need to spend this money [TS]

01:12:11   there's always people unlike the other side of the gate to pay their money to [TS]

01:12:15   get in and they're looking for something to this [TS]

01:12:19   accounting to of games may be the most affected by this and I know games [TS]

01:12:24   dominate the iPhone App Store overall but my gosh as the game industry been [TS]

01:12:30   inverted by this because the average game used to cost more than you know [TS]

01:12:37   like Mac utility software you know Xbox and PlayStation game still cost 50 60 [TS]

01:12:43   bucks new and even when they're years old you know like to buy like a 45 year [TS]

01:12:50   old PlayStation had it still costs like 20 25 bucks and now there's the mindset [TS]

01:12:58   of game buyers is you know $0.99 expensive you know there's a there's a [TS]

01:13:05   number of factors at work there one of them is like you know like the big [TS]

01:13:08   triple-a xbox and ps3 games those have ridiculous budget those havoc movie [TS]

01:13:14   budgets to make those games because they're just it's so expensive to make [TS]

01:13:19   games with that kind of production value and so those still exist and they're [TS]

01:13:24   still a big business but I think what happened with iPhone gaming in [TS]

01:13:28   particular and iPad gaming later and iPod touch of course is casual dinning [TS]

01:13:35   which previously was was damaged mostly black flash games and let those $5 CD [TS]

01:13:40   roms in the Walmart casual gaming has got has exploded onto these devices that [TS]

01:13:47   are now always and everyone's pockets and now there's easier ways to monetize [TS]

01:13:52   it you don't have to just put out in a flash game or like Sawyer crappy CDs to [TS]

01:13:56   Walmart you know if there's you can monetize games more easily now these [TS]

01:13:59   kind of games they're still relatively cheap to make their way casual games [TS]

01:14:04   always have been relative to the big Tripoli gains and I think what the big [TS]

01:14:10   shift that happened is that so many people now are realizing you know even [TS]

01:14:15   those big triple-a games are like really cool a big cinematic movies I don't [TS]

01:14:20   really need that all the time and I'm like I can have just as much fun playing [TS]

01:14:25   candy crush on my iPhone and it's so much easier and I can just take out in [TS]

01:14:30   time we're very Amman [TS]

01:14:31   and and you know play a game there and so I don't I don't think necessarily [TS]

01:14:34   that that Apple has inadvertently crushed the economics of triple-a games [TS]

01:14:42   I think what they really done is shift a whole lot of the attention in the demand [TS]

01:14:47   and people's time away from triple-a games into casual games by making casual [TS]

01:14:52   game so much better that's a good point I totally agree on taking time out to [TS]

01:14:57   come back to that remind me that we were talking about games casual and I talked [TS]

01:15:02   about her third sponsor these guys are great you heard of them and have a part [TS]

01:15:07   of any parties D Design Conference for people who make websites and they have [TS]

01:15:13   upcoming events San Diego Boston Washington DC's Chicago Austin San [TS]

01:15:19   Francisco they do the same cities every year in their crate was founded by web [TS]

01:15:25   visionaries Eric Meyer and Jeffrey zelman both of them who are in addition [TS]

01:15:30   to running a great conference both of them are tremendous speakers just [TS]

01:15:34   tremendous and the whole thing is dedicated to the proposition that [TS]

01:15:37   creators of great Web experiences deserve a great learning experience an [TS]

01:15:43   Event Apart brings that together with 12 leading minds in web design for two days [TS]

01:15:50   of non-stop inspiration enlighten they also have an optional day-long workshop [TS]

01:15:55   everywhere they go and it's dedicated to multi-device web design has got to be [TS]

01:16:02   the biggest thing we've designed over the last few years and my hunch is right [TS]

01:16:06   about that you know where the next bad two devices are going it's just going to [TS]

01:16:10   get even more important if you care about code as well as content usability [TS]

01:16:16   as well as design an Event Apart is the conference [TS]

01:16:20   here's where you go go to an Event Apart dot com slash talk show to learn more [TS]

01:16:27   that way you'll get all the information you need and I know you came from this [TS]

01:16:31   show an Event Apart dot com slash talk show [TS]

01:16:36   so we're time against here's the thing I've been really enjoying the accident [TS]

01:16:42   tech podcast thank you great show with you [TS]

01:16:45   Casey less and what's his name to another guy circus the guy with the only [TS]

01:16:56   one in there is a part of episode or two ago I think I'm sadly like one or two [TS]

01:17:02   behind you guys to productive but there was one of the guys were talking about [TS]

01:17:08   the way that with casual games on iOS it's all gone to premium where you get [TS]

01:17:15   these free games to play [TS]

01:17:17   free-to-play terrible and I hate it and you guys had a sponsor I can't remember [TS]

01:17:23   the name of the game was the game how do you spell that [TS]

01:17:27   opt I a great this was one of the best things you guy image attached or sponsor [TS]

01:17:34   and and you guys praised it and I say deservedly so because it's not have any [TS]

01:17:42   in-app purchases now know it's a puzzle game which is the worst for these in a [TS]

01:17:46   pub purchases it's like these puzzles that you can't even freakin solve if you [TS]

01:17:50   don't pump some money into the system right there's this whole psychology of [TS]

01:17:54   awful going like having like the first 15 levels be what you expect incremental [TS]

01:18:00   ratcheting up the difficulty of the puzzles and then you get to level 15 and [TS]

01:18:04   you're feeling pretty clever cause you've gotten there and you know level [TS]

01:18:07   14 was pretty tough and level 15 there's just no way to beat it if you don't pump [TS]

01:18:12   $1 into the system was this game is really cool and and it doesn't happen [TS]

01:18:17   but I remember nodding my head and and thinking like hell yeah this whole [TS]

01:18:23   premium [TS]

01:18:24   hated I'm just philosophically opposed to it I refused to to to let my son make [TS]

01:18:30   any in-app purchases like that you get to game like that [TS]

01:18:34   I want to delete it you know I let him spend a couple bucks a week on games but [TS]

01:18:40   I want to spend it like 99 cents here and you have sent their own again and [TS]

01:18:44   have to pay him but then it hit me all of a son that when I was 9 10 11 12 [TS]

01:18:50   years old all the way through high school i blue hundreds of dollars [TS]

01:18:55   pumping quarters into arcade machines and I suddenly felt like a total [TS]

01:19:02   hypocrite for being opposed carte blanche to that concert are on a [TS]

01:19:11   handheld games you know like iPhone games like I might some of those games [TS]

01:19:15   diller scams but on the other hand maybe it's no worse than you know my addiction [TS]

01:19:21   to coin-op arcade games when I was that age and I mention that it on the show [TS]

01:19:26   later on and I i said you know it's like having an arcade in your pocket all the [TS]

01:19:30   time that's paid for by credit card and so it's like yeah it's it's a kind of [TS]

01:19:37   similar idea as arcades were but to have very different degree like an arcade [TS]

01:19:43   generally a kid going to arcade as far as I know what it was when I was a kid [TS]

01:19:48   we don't have credit cards at the top and and you generally go with like a [TS]

01:19:53   limited amount of money in your pocket you were a kid so it probably wasn't a [TS]

01:19:57   whole lot of money at a time and you can only spend that money when you were at [TS]

01:20:03   the arcade and you weren't always at the arcade you would have the rest of your [TS]

01:20:06   life to deal with you have school to go to you know you couldn't stay there very [TS]

01:20:10   long because you know eventually apparently become gotta go home so that [TS]

01:20:14   it was limited in all these different ways where a purchase is not I i can [TS]

01:20:19   sincerely say up until I don't know probably pretty old I might have even [TS]

01:20:27   been thirteen fourteen years old I don't think I ever ones left an arcade with it [TS]

01:20:31   single [TS]

01:20:34   I was like whatever the equivalent level of alcoholic that is to spend every [TS]

01:20:40   every everything stopped drinking till your out of money and reuse are you [TS]

01:20:45   still going to arcades when they started charging $1 for the high end games that [TS]

01:20:49   was probably the end of it I remember being shocked you know I'm old enough [TS]

01:20:51   that I was shocked and appalled when they switch to $0.50 for the good games [TS]

01:20:55   right he's just be a quarter in my arcade video is playing Daytona USA [TS]

01:21:00   because $1 arrived and yeah I mean I would choose your money like crazy but I [TS]

01:21:07   would only be an arcade like every few weeks maybe for like an hour or two and [TS]

01:21:11   that was it so it really is a very different scale and something about the [TS]

01:21:15   way to do it these days I'll just feels dirty like in an arcade it's it's [TS]

01:21:21   there's a structure that that everything follows it assumes that you pay this [TS]

01:21:25   amount of money for like X number of trips in the in the levels or X number [TS]

01:21:33   of lives and as long as you survive you know right and with these new iOS games [TS]

01:21:38   there isn't really that standards said you know there's some common things that [TS]

01:21:42   you know you can charge me for like extra power ups or things like that but [TS]

01:21:47   it's now so much more about psychology and playing tricks on people in [TS]

01:21:53   manipulating people and certainly arcade games did some of that but I think again [TS]

01:21:58   that's it that's a situation where the scale is very different back then and [TS]

01:22:02   you weren't seeing the kind of psychological analysis and manipulation [TS]

01:22:05   that you see now where you do see that is in casino games and gambling you know [TS]

01:22:10   video poker stuff like that like slot machines like that's where you see all [TS]

01:22:14   the stuff and the difference here though is that nobody nobody can win anything [TS]

01:22:18   the matter would you know you hear you're never coming out ahead compared [TS]

01:22:22   to gambling and this is totally unregulated yeah and while the other [TS]

01:22:27   factor too I feel like [TS]

01:22:30   the sense of righteousness the old way of of corn up arcade games is better [TS]

01:22:33   because if you were better the better you were the longer you played whereas [TS]

01:22:39   now like a modern racing game it's you know it's a four minute race and that's [TS]

01:22:44   it and you know I guess sometimes with the multiplayer ones maybe if you win if [TS]

01:22:49   coming first get to play again free I don't even know if you do I don't know [TS]

01:22:53   yeah you just get bragging rights over the bodies you raised against yeah [TS]

01:22:56   there's no but you're being better all you get out of it is that you want [TS]

01:22:59   there's no way to keep going exactly as I remember you know getting good at a [TS]

01:23:04   certain game and it was you know that was like something you can be proud of [TS]

01:23:07   because you could put a quarter in and play longer than your friends and I [TS]

01:23:11   remember being jealous of friends who are better than me and other games [TS]

01:23:14   because they could play on one thing at a blog post about this maybe someday [TS]

01:23:20   I'll get to it is that Apple has a rule in the in the App Store review [TS]

01:23:26   guidelines against time-limited demos you you are forbidden from making from [TS]

01:23:32   from publishing an app in the App Store that has time-limited demo features that [TS]

01:23:36   then disable themselves or the whole package disabled the idea is you know [TS]

01:23:40   whatever capability that that you start with when you have an appt you should [TS]

01:23:45   always have the capability and you can add more stuff upon purchase but you [TS]

01:23:49   can't like something for like the first 30 days and then turn it off right said [TS]

01:23:54   you couldn't have an app that does stink for free but thirty days in would say [TS]

01:23:59   you have to pay for sync now correct [TS]

01:24:01   otherwise the app will still work but just wants think there is not only a [TS]

01:24:06   rule against that but there's also a lot of precedent in like specific a [TS]

01:24:10   projections that I've seen or heard about Apple enforces that produced three [TS]

01:24:15   straight but there's a very common practice in in games now and iOS where [TS]

01:24:21   you like a run out of lives at a certain point and then you have to like wait 20 [TS]

01:24:28   minutes before you can play it again or like in real racing you have they did [TS]

01:24:33   these artificial delays in getting your car repaired and you can you can pay now [TS]

01:24:36   you can pay a dollar ticked every player right now or you can wait a half hour [TS]

01:24:40   every player free then [TS]

01:24:42   n or spend your friends on Facebook and replayed again now I saw that with [TS]

01:24:47   better known as I don't know how that's permissible and it seems like obviously [TS]

01:24:53   a glaring inconsistency in the App Store rules and I think either both of those [TS]

01:25:00   things should be allowed or they should both be prohibited yeah like the same [TS]

01:25:05   kind of thing it's like you have a game that you can play and then time runs out [TS]

01:25:08   unless you pay is not the same thing as a time-limited demo yeah I agree and I [TS]

01:25:14   kind of think that I and i can almost see how you do they they should have [TS]

01:25:19   been if you have a time limit to demo I think it should still maintain some [TS]

01:25:22   modicum of of usability after the time limit is up although not necessarily if [TS]

01:25:31   it was a free app I don't know that it would be a bad thing at all if Apple [TS]

01:25:34   were to allow free apps that were time limited and when their time was up your [TS]

01:25:42   only option was an in-app purchase if it was clear upfront I think if you look at [TS]

01:25:48   what actually gets downloaded I think it's something like ninety percent free [TS]

01:25:51   so you can I think I think it's safe to assume now that almost all after four [TS]

01:25:55   years in the grand scheme of things but I would you know I would I would at [TS]

01:26:00   least think about a free version of Vesper if we can do it for 30 days and [TS]

01:26:05   at the end of the 30 days if you like it [TS]

01:26:08   pay $4.99 if not you know your your data to export right way too nice about that [TS]

01:26:15   that was again deleted unless you pay $5 right now [TS]

01:26:20   next four minutes like like some period [TS]

01:26:25   challenging to make sure you got your password right exactly or even spam [TS]

01:26:30   Facebook and get your data back a little bit and with one of those countdowns [TS]

01:26:35   it's like inspired by the video game industry and over the red numbers that [TS]

01:26:40   start getting bigger as it gets closer [TS]

01:26:44   know yet totally it's so weird thing like trying to apply the same rules to [TS]

01:26:50   nab some games like it exposes lot of weird little flaws in the rules it's [TS]

01:26:56   sort of like being being responsible for that like coming up with the schemes in [TS]

01:27:00   implementing them would make me feel terrible about myself it would in the [TS]

01:27:05   same way that like a decade to decade or two ago when I started cracking down on [TS]

01:27:10   cigarette advertising in and cracking open you know the internal communication [TS]

01:27:16   of the cigarette company isn't seeing just just how many tricks they'd figured [TS]

01:27:20   out you know you know like I think I guess most famously the the brand [TS]

01:27:26   recognition of joe camel among kindergarteners you know it was he was [TS]

01:27:31   second only to mickey mouse cartoon characters in western civilization a [TS]

01:27:38   smoke was second only to me that I think that that rightfully scared the crap out [TS]

01:27:45   of society but just I just always imagined like you know just how bad I [TS]

01:27:52   would feel if I was working at the ad agency that had the camel account you [TS]

01:27:57   know i mean that I i cant i am guessing that the people who did it we're like [TS]

01:28:00   talented people who had no scruples and moral compass and slept like a baby at [TS]

01:28:07   night but I know that if it were me I would feel terrible and yeah there's [TS]

01:28:12   always going to be that there's always going to be people who will do a job [TS]

01:28:17   that you are i think is you know has like moral issues with having that job [TS]

01:28:22   done [TS]

01:28:23   like you know like it when it like whether you're nice to telemarketers [TS]

01:28:26   that there's a lot of a lot of this morality tied up in that like I don't [TS]

01:28:31   have a problem being rude telemarketers [TS]

01:28:33   in every other case where like it's not like I'm not rude to like a waiter bring [TS]

01:28:39   me we're tasting food because you know that's not really their problem and [TS]

01:28:43   they're just doing their job but a telemarketer I feel like if you took [TS]

01:28:46   that job at all you have a different moral compass tonight do ya like at all [TS]

01:28:52   and even even when I was in high school having to work [TS]

01:28:56   crappy jobs I can [TS]

01:28:57   and grocery stores and restaurants and stuff I would never even considered for [TS]

01:29:01   a second taking telemarketing job not once and like so I know there are [TS]

01:29:07   options out there this alternate it's like you can't say oh I have to work [TS]

01:29:12   it's a marketing job dealing job available and you may be looking at this [TS]

01:29:15   one place in the world that the case you know and they're all going to email you [TS]

01:29:18   don't know my email address but but you know for the foremost place that's not [TS]

01:29:23   the case for most people most places that isn't the case you have [TS]

01:29:25   alternatives similar thing here like yet you can make a game that uses all these [TS]

01:29:33   tricks and uses weird manipulative psychology to extract money to people [TS]

01:29:39   with like less consent or thought that they would have otherwise put into it [TS]

01:29:45   and you know some people think that's fine lol at the market capitalism but [TS]

01:29:52   it's always gonna be a lot of people like us who are like you know i i don't [TS]

01:29:56   want to take that path you know I've had to do things in a way that i think is [TS]

01:29:59   more honest [TS]

01:29:59   more honest [TS]

01:30:00   now I just couldn't stand and I couldn't take long having any job where I wasn't [TS]

01:30:05   proud of what I was doing right but I lot of people can say that right and [TS]

01:30:09   even when I had terrible jobs I mean like when I was in high school or as a [TS]

01:30:13   guy whose stock the shelves in a big super store pharmacy I mean it was [TS]

01:30:18   horrible dreadful menial work and I was bad at it because I'm so bad at doing [TS]

01:30:22   things the Poor Dad but I mean I could at least I can only say I was maybe [TS]

01:30:28   necessarily proud of my efficiency that I could say you know I did something [TS]

01:30:33   that made the world a better place I put shampoo bottles you know from a [TS]

01:30:37   cardboard box on the shelf so people can buy them yeah I mean when my eight hours [TS]

01:30:41   were done the store was in better shape than when I left you know and people got [TS]

01:30:46   what they came into the store for you you were a net gain for society you you [TS]

01:30:50   weren't taking from society you were given to society in some way if you sign [TS]

01:30:55   up to be a telemarketer you're admitting that all day every day you're just [TS]

01:30:58   ruining somebody's minute right your job is to make people's lives little worse [TS]

01:31:03   all the time it's like and I mean like it when I was in college I i briefly [TS]

01:31:10   worked it's a year I worked at Staples and one of the reasons I quit was about [TS]

01:31:17   to be fired and one of the reasons about to be fired [TS]

01:31:20   was because I refused to read from the script we were given to convince people [TS]

01:31:26   to buy gold-plated USB cables because the gold-plated cables were like 30 [TS]

01:31:32   bucks for 20 bucks and those are both insane ripoffs but they give us like [TS]

01:31:39   these Diesel cards which I scan and kept his cards with like here's how I'm [TS]

01:31:44   supposed to present the events of the gold plated cable but there are none [TS]

01:31:48   it's a total scam but here's here's the supposed to say I'm like me being a nerd [TS]

01:31:53   I was like well these three are even true that's totally that's why I'm not [TS]

01:31:59   gonna so contradict the laws of physics [TS]

01:32:03   exactly like that I'm not going to say that that's like and I would even tell [TS]

01:32:07   people I call you can go on like new I get this and yet a measure to do not [TS]

01:32:14   appreciate my earliest born Marco I always yeah I haven't changed much I'm [TS]

01:32:21   pretty much the same guy so yeah like I i was i was unwilling even though is my [TS]

01:32:27   job even though I had no money was a crappy job and no one will ever remember [TS]

01:32:31   who the hell sold it nobody cared except me and the manager but it's important [TS]

01:32:37   you know the important thing is that I cared they were selling lemon like you [TS]

01:32:42   were selling USB cable to work the gold-plated want to do in fact work as [TS]

01:32:45   well as the normal ones but they're overpaying for them right and anybody [TS]

01:32:52   who's buying cable in a retail store is already screwed like the last thing you [TS]

01:32:58   need to do is add to that I'm jacking up the price even for her and sorry but you [TS]

01:33:02   know the important thing is like I had my own personal standards say you know [TS]

01:33:06   what it is about the job it isn't about money it isn't about you know what I'm [TS]

01:33:12   told it's I would feel terrible going home back to my crappy college dorm [TS]

01:33:17   knowing that I had told people that information right and it's you know it's [TS]

01:33:23   in the grand scheme of unsavory sales techniques it's at the low end of it [TS]

01:33:29   raised their high-end telling somebody a used car that you know is 11 and that [TS]

01:33:33   you know within the next five hundred miles is you know the transmissions can [TS]

01:33:37   fall apart [TS]

01:33:38   and selling it to a mini or selling a used car that you know you know that you [TS]

01:33:44   know blue book value is 4 grand and this person clearly has no idea what the blue [TS]

01:33:48   book value is in you somehow convince them in selling the car for $88,000 just [TS]

01:33:53   taken four thousand dollars that's pretty much the USB cable thing right [TS]

01:33:57   well you know I'm here though you're talking about turning $199 printer [TS]

01:34:01   purchase into a $230 print purchase because you've tacked on a $30 cold [TS]

01:34:07   gold-plated cables that printing printer will get exactly you know where they [TS]

01:34:14   said they actually said that it would print faster and with fewer errors [TS]

01:34:19   errors because they're the ones and zeros will be sharper such a disaster [TS]

01:34:26   and the funny thing is they still do all that stuff like a retail store it on to [TS]

01:34:29   stable they all do this like retail like a disaster right well in like Best Buy [TS]

01:34:33   doesn't have least last I checked again I don't look for a cable at Best Buy but [TS]

01:34:40   last I did they don't even have a reasonably priced like HDMI cable I know [TS]

01:34:47   I think it starts at like 30 or 40 bucks right like there is not like there's a [TS]

01:34:51   $4 HDMI cable there and then the sales guy says look you don't really want if [TS]

01:34:56   you want to 499 when you can have it but it look if I was getting the really [TS]

01:35:00   sweet blu-ray player that you're about to buy want the movies do look really [TS]

01:35:04   sharp and i buy this one it but that cable isn't even there and the way that [TS]

01:35:09   plays into it is if you're even if you know the damn things a rip off if you [TS]

01:35:15   really wanted to set up your blu-ray player as soon as you get home and not [TS]

01:35:20   wait for the you know the cable from Amazon or what's the place we go [TS]

01:35:26   tomorrow [TS]

01:35:26   modifies the monoprice one to show up you know in two days [TS]

01:35:30   like screw it up by it by the $30 on that's why they do it and that's [TS]

01:35:36   horrible that's the best buy a curiosity [TS]

01:35:42   good question I say two years ago that's actually pretty recent [TS]

01:35:48   I'm surprised to vague recollection we look at these I don't remember what the [TS]

01:35:54   hell he went in for two years so I went into one very recently like I think two [TS]

01:36:00   months ago and it was the first time I've been in one in probably six or [TS]

01:36:05   seven years and it was really sad like the first of all I mean yeah I was going [TS]

01:36:13   to have a real job but you know it was empty like the whole store was empty the [TS]

01:36:20   only people there were employees in like two customers in the entire story is a [TS]

01:36:23   big stores and the reason I was going there was because I was literally about [TS]

01:36:28   to leave on a road trip and I wanted to get a USB car charger for my phone so I [TS]

01:36:35   just installed the OS 7 beta and it was killing the battery let me just let me [TS]

01:36:38   get a car charger for this we have never needed before ok and I knew I would pay [TS]

01:36:43   a lot and I Amazon they had them for like $7 literally $7 for on Amazon for [TS]

01:36:48   the same thing and like you know what I possibly Target Best Buy like $15 maybe [TS]

01:36:54   $20 let's let's give it a shot at the only place around here I don't have time [TS]

01:36:58   to look anywhere else [TS]

01:36:59   ok so I get there in store is empty and the shelves like everything's in [TS]

01:37:05   terrible shape again like nothing is where its tags go half of the hooks on [TS]

01:37:09   the on the shelf walls are just empty like the boxes alike have torn open you [TS]

01:37:15   can tell they've been like bought and returned and take back together like [TS]

01:37:18   every single item had been brought it back together some point it was a train [TS]

01:37:22   wreck and I eventually find which is not easy because all the tags were Broncos [TS]

01:37:28   all the items were on the wrong hooks in the sparse environment full of tape I [TS]

01:37:32   eventually find they have two of these things and one of them is $30 and one of [TS]

01:37:39   them is $50 and includes adoptable [TS]

01:37:43   ok well I don't have cable anymore so let me try this $30 1 ok it's ridiculous [TS]

01:37:49   and I'm definitely going to return this next week but let me try anyway said I [TS]

01:37:55   would never do that even if I knew that I should I just wouldn't return not out [TS]

01:38:00   of any moral guidance it would have been just because I couldn't be bothered to [TS]

01:38:05   go all the way to Best Buy for $30 will help that it's it's it's in an area that [TS]

01:38:09   I Drive by frequently so it wasn't that bad so anyway so I go to check out and [TS]

01:38:15   they had and I think this is just for this store I don't think this is for all [TS]

01:38:18   best buys they had rearranged the shelves around the check out such that [TS]

01:38:25   in order to get to the checkouts you had to like we've through the washing [TS]

01:38:30   machine area off to the side it to weave through there and go around an extra [TS]

01:38:36   like 75 feet of walking around what the cashier told me they named Temptation [TS]

01:38:42   Island and it was just like candy like bags of chocolate covered pretzels and [TS]

01:38:47   like all that crap candy and like crappy cables and stuff you had to weave [TS]

01:38:53   through this thing they'd send you physically couldn't walk around it was [TS]

01:38:56   like they'd tidy shelves together yet so fire code like an entire 711 yea in the [TS]

01:39:05   last time I went through its like that is yet I could gauntlet you have to run [TS]

01:39:10   exactly scrappy ad on purchases and it looks like it's designed for like a [TS]

01:39:17   store where there's typically 75 people in line ahead and there were three and [TS]

01:39:23   its 20 minutes maybe was within the last year that I was there I recall the [TS]

01:39:28   scenario I don't remember the movie but it was a movie that [TS]

01:39:32   me and Jonas and Amy wanted to watch some you know sort of family fare that [TS]

01:39:36   wasn't on iTunes or Netflix or anything that we had access to and we thought we [TS]

01:39:42   really want to watch it that night so without let's pop in to BestBuy and [TS]

01:39:47   that's why we went in and I i think they didn't have it I don't know maybe they [TS]

01:39:52   have something well the thing I remember was that the last time I been in prior [TS]

01:39:57   it seemed like they had an awful lot more movies it just seems like among the [TS]

01:40:02   way they've gotten worse is they have far fewer movies than they used to [TS]

01:40:06   remembered long time ago they used to have thousands and thousands of compact [TS]

01:40:10   discs just seems like like blu-ray and DVD movies are following the way of [TS]

01:40:17   compact discs where they're not worth stocking a library of them in the store [TS]

01:40:22   anymore I also Walmart wiped out completely Walmart took over the CD and [TS]

01:40:27   movie business so strongly but I hadn't gone but I don't think walmart has a [TS]

01:40:32   good library for like you can assume that you know this wasn't the movie but [TS]

01:40:37   let's just say it's a classic but it's kind of obscure let's say something like [TS]

01:40:40   Brewster's Millions the 1983 classic with Richard Pryor you know that's it [TS]

01:40:49   wouldn't have that they would they would however have rush hour 2 on sale for $7 [TS]

01:40:53   you know that was the advantage of Best Buy before was that you know Best Buy [TS]

01:40:59   would have Brewster's Millions them at every two copies of it and that was [TS]

01:41:03   great I don't even know what they're going to a Best Buy for now it's not [TS]

01:41:09   worth it [TS]

01:41:10   yeah it was I almost didn't return it just because I didn't want to go back [TS]

01:41:13   into that store even though like like the the dog food store that I go to is [TS]

01:41:17   right next to it a touching the Best Buy so I'm there like every week almost and [TS]

01:41:23   yet I really need to return this like I guess I could theoretically keep so did [TS]

01:41:30   you take it back if it was if it was $20 and Amazon 47 is it like that kinda ok I [TS]

01:41:38   am paying for the comedians getting this right now I guess I keep it was 120 [TS]

01:41:43   bucks but it was i know im sorry it was [TS]

01:41:45   the tag said 30 but it rang up as forty [TS]

01:41:50   I'm like all right what's your return policy immediately and I'm sure I'm sure [TS]

01:42:00   everybody return I mean obviously everybody should bring it up the CD you [TS]

01:42:05   can do whatever you want right now come back and 52 its class and then I got one [TS]

01:42:11   on Amazon 47 well anyway thank you for being a strap it up as a good show she [TS]

01:42:20   said people don't know your email is make sure they know your email it's [TS]

01:42:22   Marco at washingtonpost.com does that still work for you I believe it's JP is [TS]

01:42:28   at washingtonpost.com Bezos washingtonpost.com send your complaint [TS]

01:42:32   demarco there especially if you're a Best Buy Best Buy clerk can imagine how [TS]

01:42:38   sad somebody would be if they're like a big fan of the talk show and Marco [TS]

01:42:42   Arment and they're like wow to my favorite guys are on and they're [TS]

01:42:45   enjoying like the first eighty minutes he just showed up this early if they [TS]

01:42:52   work at this Best Buy you know you working another one you can say all that [TS]

01:42:57   must be a bad storm if they were they like it they work at this one that's [TS]

01:43:01   that's going to be awkward you can always find out more about Marco Marco [TS]

01:43:09   dot org and your podcast about gas I don't know it and have it open for me [TS]

01:43:16   pretty sure that the URL is ATP . FM that is correct [TS]

01:43:23   alright that's the FM domain name is so expensive to register every year that [TS]

01:43:28   nobody buys those names so it's easy to get what it what you will [TS]

01:43:31   that's interesting I like the idea I like the dot FM for a podcaster you are [TS]

01:43:37   oh yeah it's nice yeah and the favorite federated islands of Micronesia get a [TS]

01:43:41   little bit of kick back out of it exactly [TS]