The Talk Show

52: A Little Bit Of Dancing On Their Grave


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00:00:20   man side [TS]

00:00:22   you know took most of August derbenev August or or read all of August off and [TS]

00:00:28   lot's happened that kind of anti traditional for August so you've [TS]

00:00:38   probably talked I I have to admit I'm a little bit behind on the ATP so I mean [TS]

00:00:43   you've probably talked to a similar stuff but people like to hear about it [TS]

00:00:46   over and over again Steve Ballmer out at Microsoft [TS]

00:00:51   you did you not talk about this in your last show I believe no didn't happen [TS]

00:00:58   then I guess I didn't happen [TS]

00:01:00   yeah now we did talk about that's how long ago it's been since I've recorded [TS]

00:01:04   episode of the talk show you realize that have been got maybe I'm caught up [TS]

00:01:08   who is your last guest was NGC where we talk to ya heard that one that was the [TS]

00:01:13   last one I guess what you to take a break [TS]

00:01:14   no and in fact the silver one I recorded you know before I took took off and it [TS]

00:01:23   was held I think a week it possible possible I actually saw little blurry [TS]

00:01:30   but it's possible that bomber was announced his retirement before the [TS]

00:01:34   episode came out but I don't think so I think the episode came out like on [TS]

00:01:36   Wednesday and then bombers announcement was Friday that was the week but the [TS]

00:01:43   episodes recorded like the Friday before so I'm not surprisingly I mean no I [TS]

00:01:49   don't think so I think it was a little over do I think some of the reaction to [TS]

00:01:52   it has been a little surprising I think some of the defense of bombers CEO it [TS]

00:01:58   surprises me a little bit I think backlash backlash i mean you know so you [TS]

00:02:01   get the that the story is out and then it's like oh good reasons he needed to [TS]

00:02:05   go that's that's that's the main story and then the backlash story is so he [TS]

00:02:08   wasn't as bad as you thought he must member getting now we're going to the [TS]

00:02:10   backlash back last which is no really it was pretty bad just a dot lights back [TS]

00:02:14   and forth until he settles on the you know the central thing yeah I mean that [TS]

00:02:24   you're passing on your side like that he was kicked out in the people freaked out [TS]

00:02:28   about that because you really just speculating but I don't think it really [TS]

00:02:30   matters at this point it was clear what his job was when he took over [TS]

00:02:35   Bill Gates and he hasn't pulled it off and it's time for a change right and it [TS]

00:02:42   seems like you know you can really feel it doesn't seem like that he graciously [TS]

00:02:47   stepped aside to allow someone else to have a crack at it if not his [TS]

00:02:51   personality that's not the type of guy he is so the only way to get rid of them [TS]

00:02:55   if they only come out right I leave on his own [TS]

00:02:59   you know if I'm to die is gonna is going to be a thousand powered by his you know [TS]

00:03:02   fueled by anger or whatever so that they could get around them and I think you [TS]

00:03:07   know they're a couple people who wrote about it I forget who had two good piece [TS]

00:03:11   I what it would look like one aboard forces as CEO and you know that some of [TS]

00:03:17   the tells are that there's no named successor you know that if this was [TS]

00:03:22   orderly there'd been named you know somebody ready to go you know that [TS]

00:03:25   there's you know if this was part of a plan they wouldn't be you know we need [TS]

00:03:31   twelve months to name somebody and the interviews with them like you know the [TS]

00:03:35   things you're supposed to say when you're stepping down [TS]

00:03:38   you you say all day and he wasn't saying those things like he couldn't even like [TS]

00:03:42   they were asking questions like what made you decide to leave that he's gonna [TS]

00:03:44   make some crap but was like I didn't decide to leave you know I mean it seems [TS]

00:03:47   like it could get much worse like it could be you know adversarial and [TS]

00:03:50   they're all trash talking to I wasn't like he eventually was convinced that [TS]

00:03:53   he's not gonna is a company man is not going to go out and burn bridges and say [TS]

00:03:57   Microsoft is doing they're you know not gonna have Steve Ballmer to kick around [TS]

00:03:59   anymore he went out gracious graciously as you can imagine but again I don't [TS]

00:04:05   think he wanted to go I thought he you know he thought he could still pull it [TS]

00:04:08   off and I think the thing it was keeping them there for such a long time as you [TS]

00:04:12   know he was there from the beginning and he was I'm assuming bill gates friend [TS]

00:04:16   and like all those things all those intangibles kept him there for longer [TS]

00:04:21   than he should have been did the one by one question that I have been really [TS]

00:04:24   know the answer to me talk about ideas like the transformation into a long [TS]

00:04:29   functional lines and you know the sort of application of Microsoft was that his [TS]

00:04:35   idea and then he was like his last-gasp movie kick them out or was that sort of [TS]

00:04:42   something that the board wanted to happen [TS]

00:04:44   he was allowed to make it seem like it was his idea on his way out my guess is [TS]

00:04:48   that it was the latter that it was bombers things I can't imagine that they [TS]

00:04:58   would institute something and it it it it seems like a true if it is as they've [TS]

00:05:05   described it it's a true company-wide reorganization along functionalized [TS]

00:05:09   which is not the way microsoft has ever operated I mean it's a true [TS]

00:05:13   transformation of the company I can't see why they would do they the board [TS]

00:05:17   would do that if they knew they were gonna bring in somebody new they didn't [TS]

00:05:22   have someone specific in mind then why would you let him if you know you wanna [TS]

00:05:27   get rid of it before so I like this was the last straw has another theory that [TS]

00:05:31   like they like ok well let's see what he has meant like let him an ounce and like [TS]

00:05:35   put into motion like this plan to truly transform coming in then kick him out I [TS]

00:05:39   mean like this is this plan was surprised to the board I would imagine [TS]

00:05:42   right so why let some guy do something and then like that that was one of the [TS]

00:05:47   theories aDP is like did he announce this animal was like ok that's it this [TS]

00:05:52   guy's not to destroy the company's gotta go out that seems unlikely to me because [TS]

00:05:56   like this type of transformation you'd get him out before him but what's the [TS]

00:05:58   plan like and we hear about how he was going to transform the company but you [TS]

00:06:02   know I kicked out so it's kind of weird like is my question is is this [TS]

00:06:06   transformation still going on right now our company our our parts of the the [TS]

00:06:09   company reorganizing are they are they continuing apace to implement this [TS]

00:06:12   transformation plan despite the fact that was the idea that their of the guys [TS]

00:06:16   are going out like the plan survives him because it wasn't just him like they [TS]

00:06:20   really thought this was a good idea that is the key was the guy deleted question [TS]

00:06:24   had really thought about it but it is interesting to me maybe it was along the [TS]

00:06:29   lines of bomber goes to the board with his plan to do this and the board is [TS]

00:06:35   like maybe unsettled about his future and they're like [TS]

00:06:40   you know and they know that they know there's a bad smell about the place you [TS]

00:06:44   know that that that they're they're big thing Windows is in decline in it [TS]

00:06:49   doesn't seem like their next big things like mobile R K gaining any traction and [TS]

00:06:54   all they know there's it's kids at the point now where even the Microsoft [TS]

00:06:58   optimistic gotta see that there's problems in the near future for the [TS]

00:07:01   company but he says are gonna do this and they're like okay and then it's like [TS]

00:07:08   in the weeks after that you know you know you know we've got to get you got a [TS]

00:07:13   good person and that's not the way you want that to go there like that's [TS]

00:07:16   another another fumbled seems [TS]

00:07:18   by the Board you want to go and I can I mean the sound like I will who really [TS]

00:07:23   cares who really cares about kicked out of her whatever like it's all you'll [TS]

00:07:26   find out of the tell-all books ten years from now whatever but it makes a [TS]

00:07:30   difference for the future of the company because I mean I guess we will find out [TS]

00:07:33   when like the new CEO comes in if his first order of business is to undo that [TS]

00:07:37   entire plan will know that that plan was clearly you know was bomber staying and [TS]

00:07:41   the new guys reversing is now this is actually how we want to do things but if [TS]

00:07:46   the new CEO comes in and like just weeks the plan and says okay now I'm going to [TS]

00:07:50   or you know but it's not really like what we're gonna do it's like how we're [TS]

00:07:53   gonna be organized so could be the organization survived same as the new [TS]

00:07:56   CEO says now we're going to you know make toast or something and that's that [TS]

00:08:00   you know would still be radical shift so because the new guy could come in and [TS]

00:08:03   just immediately you know under this plan to save yeah we're not going to do [TS]

00:08:07   that we can do something different about going to reorganize and then spoke [TS]

00:08:12   pattern in the harbor whatever who knows me I don't know there's a line here this [TS]

00:08:17   is the the internal email the bomber sent to the company on the day of the [TS]

00:08:23   announcement second and third sentences to me are the ones that are almost the [TS]

00:08:30   this is as close as ever gonna tell to the fact that he was kind of pushed [TS]

00:08:34   actually pushed he says there's never a perfect time for this type of transition [TS]

00:08:39   but now is the right time [TS]

00:08:40   my original thoughts on timing would have had my retirement happen in the [TS]

00:08:46   middle of our transformation to a devices and services company focused on [TS]

00:08:49   empowering customers in the activities they value most that my original [TS]

00:08:55   thoughts that to me is translated as I would have stayed but it is tracking it [TS]

00:09:03   down like that's the one break-in that I read that thing that's the one break [TS]

00:09:07   from his like you know corporate vernier like he's not gonna bad mouth now he's [TS]

00:09:10   not going to trash the company he loves Microsoft right he wants to see them [TS]

00:09:13   succeed so we can go down in flames but he he also can't help like that little [TS]

00:09:18   bit leaks out of it but he regrets that if it's inside my room that totally [TS]

00:09:22   makes it clear that I go and I mean the interview with your interview field at [TS]

00:09:26   that moment [TS]

00:09:27   yeah you know I do kind of you know I mean I deserve a lot of I told you so [TS]

00:09:34   and the fact that I was seen to me it's been very clear for years that the guys [TS]

00:09:37   you know been making some profound mistakes of judgment but I don't hold [TS]

00:09:43   any personal animosity against them and I think it is very clear I don't see how [TS]

00:09:47   anybody whether you have been a fan of the guy a couple of the company's [TS]

00:09:51   products or whatever or not the opposite I don't see how anybody could deny that [TS]

00:09:56   the guy is put his life into the company I mean he is truly the company's man [TS]

00:10:01   company man from Microsoft yeah I think I would have personal animosity towards [TS]

00:10:05   me if I was big Microsoft's fans and enthusiasts because I would feel like he [TS]

00:10:09   was the United steering the ship into the iceberg over the past decade and [TS]

00:10:13   just not you know I would be screaming yelling for you know you know when you [TS]

00:10:21   screaming yelling manager to pull a picture right because you were you a fan [TS]

00:10:23   of the team right personal hatred towards that guy [TS]

00:10:26   the baseball and just for you but if you don't care you like and what you know it [TS]

00:10:31   because he did do the things he did was he sort of took the businesses that he [TS]

00:10:38   knew how to be successful and because they work the same as that used to work [TS]

00:10:41   and continued to you know sort of build those [TS]

00:10:45   and didn't fumble the ball and those who just was unable to break into any new [TS]

00:10:52   businesses with Microsoft in in a successful fashion I also I also think [TS]

00:10:57   there is a profound irony in the fact that his his dad was an executive in [TS]

00:11:04   five ford indeed right and you know he grew up as a car company and you know [TS]

00:11:14   apparently still to this day is driven nothing but cars from the Ford Motor [TS]

00:11:19   Company think it was for don't think it was GMA almost sure that was ford but [TS]

00:11:27   regardless his father's generation of the trade car executives were the [TS]

00:11:31   generation that ran the D train companies into real problems when a [TS]

00:11:39   disruptive new class of cars came about in the seventies and that his read [TS]

00:11:43   bombers reaction to the disruptive technologies of last 10 15 20 years as [TS]

00:11:49   you know in broad strokes very similar to 2d traits where they kinda just stuck [TS]

00:11:54   with their old you know in Broad's again broad strokes but this make big [TS]

00:11:59   gas-guzzling cars and let's just laugh off threat from smaller cheaper japanese [TS]

00:12:06   imports and the idea of him only driving for cars despite being like a [TS]

00:12:12   multi-billionaire because his father was a four-man click together in my mind [TS]

00:12:20   with Melinda Gates forbidding was at her forbidding her children to have iPods [TS]

00:12:25   right now that that attitude nothing you know I'm taking Bill Gates and Steve [TS]

00:12:29   Ballmer like that the 12 and Microsoft and you can see this pervades the entire [TS]

00:12:33   company but that attitude of like it's kinda like being accompanied men you [TS]

00:12:38   know your bill gates children have iPods and Steve Ballmer you know his followers [TS]

00:12:42   and you're my son is he doing out of loyalty displace I'm only gonna buy for [TS]

00:12:46   its despite the fact that I have any car in the world right [TS]

00:12:49   compare this to Steve Jobs coming to Apple and continuing to use a ThinkPad [TS]

00:12:55   busy can run next step [TS]

00:12:56   not gonna run their friggin classic Mac OS with the Platinum windows and all [TS]

00:12:59   this crap because it's not it's not good enough right [TS]

00:13:02   that whole idea of you know toeing the line being company man not not like it [TS]

00:13:10   to loyalty type thing versus ruthlessly using what you think is the best product [TS]

00:13:15   no matter what I'm trying like serving aspirational like you would hope this [TS]

00:13:18   Steve Ballmer will be driving you know a Ferrari BMW or Mercedes or something to [TS]

00:13:25   give him a taste amazing products can be like and to aspire to make up their [TS]

00:13:29   testicles prices like that type of attitude to meet daily and that that I'm [TS]

00:13:34   only gonna drive fords because my father I may be fine if you can only afford for [TS]

00:13:38   it and it's like you know picking Ford Chevy your hunter but never finds it [TS]

00:13:41   with words but it's just so crazy to me that type of attitude you know from the [TS]

00:13:46   gates children are having iPods into Steve Ballmer only driving force that [TS]

00:13:49   highlights in the Apple and Microsoft and you know I like a Lincoln is made by [TS]

00:13:56   foreigners a higher quality car then you know ford escort or something like that [TS]

00:14:01   but but your point taken I totally agree I don't think bomber would fit them [TS]

00:14:07   Friday by the way they were very accommodating you have enough money to [TS]

00:14:13   move the seat back I don't know I've never tried to say I've heard that there [TS]

00:14:17   I've heard they're pretty difficult for even I don't even know if you are I [TS]

00:14:20   would fit very well and often for us very well typically very very short man [TS]

00:14:27   there goes the Italian audience I haven't seen a lot of speculation yet on [TS]

00:14:39   who Microsoft might replace bomber wit and it seemed this seems like a fun game [TS]

00:14:46   to play [TS]

00:14:48   yeah I've heard a lot i mean this is a lot of fun [TS]

00:14:51   suggestions that you know unrealistic the favor one is that I think marco was [TS]

00:14:55   a nice it's also the first of many people have as well I got first also [TS]

00:14:59   available here right now that he would never seems like wanna run Microsoft [TS]

00:15:03   ever but that's fun to think about [TS]

00:15:07   yeah let's take it seriously I've definitely seen now [TS]

00:15:09   on Twitter aspect I saw that I mean five minutes after the when I first saw the [TS]

00:15:15   announcement that bombers out I don't think I'm and I certainly cannot claim [TS]

00:15:21   I've met for stalled once but I did have a nice conversation with them or maybe [TS]

00:15:27   Heidemann you times after that but I can't kind that I know but what I know [TS]

00:15:34   of him I can't imagine that he would want the job thing about this who would [TS]

00:15:40   want the job like a good question asked when you throw anybody's name because [TS]

00:15:46   it's the type of the type of position where at this point in history almost [TS]

00:15:51   anybody who would claim to want the job is probably not the right guy for the [TS]

00:15:55   job because if you want the job is like you know you have a lot on your plate [TS]

00:15:59   right and you know it's going to be super difficult to to turn this big ship [TS]

00:16:03   around but you also know that no matter how bad the job you do you can still be [TS]

00:16:08   stinking rich and be extremely powerful powerful for the tiger in the position [TS]

00:16:11   so the whole class of terrible sort of you know aspiring c-level executives [TS]

00:16:16   from Fortune 500 companies who would jump at the chance to to further take [TS]

00:16:21   Microsoft down the tubes because you would make a lot of money and you would [TS]

00:16:24   be powerful you would be in the press and you would be interviewed all these [TS]

00:16:26   magazines and you know i mean and so for all the wrong reasons [TS]

00:16:30   your monthly about all the wrong things yes those people on the position that's [TS]

00:16:34   not true Microsoft ones I want someone who is you know who loves the company [TS]

00:16:38   who believes they can do better and who's gonna do something amazing and [TS]

00:16:42   radical I'm that that's tough to find that person a person who's motivated by [TS]

00:16:46   all the right things but is also capable of it I I would say with forced to I [TS]

00:16:51   died I would bet everything that we have not heard the last from Scott Forstall [TS]

00:16:56   my understanding is that the terms of his departure from Apple where that [TS]

00:17:02   he got a boatload of money I mean like maybe literally like an entire boatload [TS]

00:17:07   of money and the terms word now you go away and you remain completely quiet for [TS]

00:17:15   12 months or 18 months or something you know somewhere and I think maybe the [TS]

00:17:18   twelve months so whenever that when was that it was last november when it was [TS]

00:17:22   announced it would be surprised if you first see his name even just in an [TS]

00:17:26   interview or something [TS]

00:17:28   come December but I think it was a twelve month period where he is not [TS]

00:17:31   allowed to say anything in public whatsoever between is not allowed to I [TS]

00:17:36   mean even like tweet a picture of a flower can't do it [TS]

00:17:41   complete radio silence for 12 months not allowed to work anywhere now they're [TS]

00:17:44   doing and after that you know it's probably in some kind of standard list [TS]

00:17:49   of nine competes for some period of time that's how long he needs to start [TS]

00:17:53   gathering his future [TS]

00:17:55   company anyway but look what other similarly having been successful people [TS]

00:18:00   who left Apple even if they left on better terms than him have done like [TS]

00:18:03   there's Tony Fadell the guy led the original iPod team went on to make the [TS]

00:18:08   nest thermostat and he didn't leave on that much better terms of forestalling [TS]

00:18:11   you think about it I think maybe it was a little but not much I mean it's [TS]

00:18:18   certainly he wasn't well both of them had been named by various you know [TS]

00:18:23   random quote unquote analyst is like potentially future people who could run [TS]

00:18:28   the company but I forestalled I think people took more seriously as bad as a [TS]

00:18:32   possible both of them believe they were kind of could be in that you know your [TS]

00:18:36   career path and then both booted out like forrest i think has is a magnum [TS]

00:18:42   higher than in this level thing yeah but did it the point though is that it's a [TS]

00:18:46   new company founded by fidel in you know exactly as he wants it burt run so we [TS]

00:18:53   don't know exactly what he's working on yet at that mystery start up some kind [TS]

00:18:58   of they've got like a slogan or something but you know he's but it's a [TS]

00:19:02   new company right that he's working on down and San Jose somewhere secretly [TS]

00:19:06   could have you know obviously could go almost anywhere you wanted to you know [TS]

00:19:12   it's a guy is unbelievable record but made a new company [TS]

00:19:17   well yes I think those are those are two very different things best thing about [TS]

00:19:20   this like bertrand I think would have no problem if his company make something [TS]

00:19:24   amazing song accompanied back down right that's very true [TS]

00:19:29   whereas forestall this point in his career [TS]

00:19:32   wants to be the Steve Jobs whatever he does next and Steve Jobs you know I'm [TS]

00:19:36   indecisive job you did something next backed out all but it was a long time [TS]

00:19:40   coming in and that was not his first choice right the only way for stalls [TS]

00:19:43   ever coming back to Apple is after some sort of decade-long disastrous drought [TS]

00:19:49   no I mean you know I mean is it possible it certainly doesn't seem possible right [TS]

00:19:53   now but after Tim Koch dies in a private jet accident or something [TS]

00:19:57   well you know if we get to the year 2022 and Apple has had you know their stocks [TS]

00:20:04   been flat ever since 2011 and they're losing money in the iPhone is no longer [TS]

00:20:11   viable platform etcetera etcetera who knows but I mean it would take you know [TS]

00:20:16   like Apple back to where they were in 1997 distorted disaster for forestall to [TS]

00:20:21   come back and like a complete execution of the entire current executive staff so [TS]

00:20:29   no I don't think Scott Forstall any interest in the Microsoft ya think he [TS]

00:20:34   wants to do the very least you have you have to get someone like him time to go [TS]

00:20:38   off tried around trying to decide if they didn't like it once or twice or [TS]

00:20:42   something like that he's not if they're they're smart they'll call him like it [TS]

00:20:46   they're smart they're gonna make the call [TS]

00:20:48   make the offer talk to him about it find out what the deal is that I think that's [TS]

00:20:53   that's why people don't take it seriously said it seems it seemed so [TS]

00:20:56   unlikely because I mean I've never spoken over from what I can tell him he [TS]

00:21:00   doesn't seem like the type of person who's just interested in being the CEO [TS]

00:21:03   of something or just interested in being powerful and he also seems like the kind [TS]

00:21:07   of person who would turn up his nose at Microsoft the same reason all apple snob [TS]

00:21:11   term [TS]

00:21:11   Microsoft right I don't think that their technology is appealing to him you know [TS]

00:21:16   that the whole technology stack to have in place I don't know that he be [TS]

00:21:19   interesting but that is it certainly is interesting what it but I don't think is [TS]

00:21:29   gonna happen I don't think it's feasible so here's one about us [TS]

00:21:35   basis by Rihanna said I would could they possibly say that would make him [TS]

00:21:38   interested I mean he's already got a massive entirely building his own image [TS]

00:21:47   yeah I think about him as though he he strikes me as a person who is able to [TS]

00:21:55   see how seemingly unconnected things can be worked together work together for [TS]

00:22:01   mutual benefit like he's the guy the company was signed books on the internet [TS]

00:22:05   and decided to build a storage service and like you know and ec2 cloud [TS]

00:22:11   computing stuff now some of that is because I okay we need something like [TS]

00:22:13   that for a Tehran Iran service but but reselling it and decided to make tablet [TS]

00:22:17   computers and like Andy Inc reader like you know it's not that far-fetched but [TS]

00:22:22   if you're the CEO of a company selling books on the internet those are not your [TS]

00:22:26   first like the things amazon has done seemed like you were told me in like [TS]

00:22:32   nineteen ninety five or whenever Amazon started fast forward a couple years in [TS]

00:22:37   Amazon's gonna have dismissed what why would they have that like it doesn't [TS]

00:22:40   make sense it doesn't seem like it in the same business so what could he do [TS]

00:22:46   owning both Amazon and Microsoft Arc those two things work together and i [TS]

00:22:51   couldnt lots of ways to work together to make what what do you say no that he'd [TS]

00:22:54   be he'd be like where jobs was the CEO of Pixar and Apple he'd be the CEO [TS]

00:22:58   Amazon and Microsoft yes no yes the CEO both they would not they would not pull [TS]

00:23:04   away yes exactly I can see if if Bezos said I'd be interested I can certainly [TS]

00:23:09   see why Microsoft Word when I listen to him I can't see what they wanted [TS]

00:23:13   I can't see why he would even spent thirty seconds thinking about it has the [TS]

00:23:18   smell factor like you know Amazon is it not on the ascent then it's a survivor [TS]

00:23:26   is doing well and people like it then Microsoft is seen as being on the [TS]

00:23:30   downslope and I don't think he really feels the need to rescue Microsoft one [TS]

00:23:35   thing he clearly has an Amazon and you know i've spoken and written a bit about [TS]

00:23:39   Amazon the last month or so but I mean there's a lot of dispute from for more [TS]

00:23:43   financial minded people that I've got it all wrong but one thing I don't think [TS]

00:23:49   anybody could denies that basis has effectively carte blanche from his [TS]

00:23:56   investors in my hand and the board he doesn't really have to answer to anybody [TS]

00:24:00   in the board and Amazon investors are very happy with what he's doing [TS]

00:24:05   whereas that big problem with Microsoft right now is that investors are very [TS]

00:24:09   unhappy with in there was a story just today that what do you call it [TS]

00:24:13   activist investor group has successfully gotten a new member of the board at [TS]

00:24:22   Microsoft witches according to The Wall Street Journal almost unprecedented for [TS]

00:24:26   a company their size you know that investors are very unhappy and that it's [TS]

00:24:30   the investors being unhappy that seemingly has gotten bored agitated and [TS]

00:24:34   you know it's the board that made the move to do this you know he's not [TS]

00:24:38   there's a lot of people to answer to their I mean I guess you could [TS]

00:24:42   theoretically get a contract written that says you know you're gonna have to [TS]

00:24:45   you know get off my back and i dont have to run ideas by you you're gonna make me [TS]

00:24:50   the CEO and I get to do whatever I want but doesn't work like that that's like [TS]

00:24:54   the worst thing that can happen to companies like Microsoft the situation [TS]

00:24:57   is to have suddenly the board you know sort of get emergency powers or whatever [TS]

00:25:02   like you like to to have the future of the company be decided by committee the [TS]

00:25:08   committee is only a handful of people that is the worst possible thing like [TS]

00:25:11   the reason it worked at Apple is because jobs came in [TS]

00:25:15   and like the board you know I don't feel like shuttle through the border a place [TS]

00:25:19   in people who never been like it was a hundred percent backing up in these [TS]

00:25:22   rubber stamped what he did like him and he talked to them and got advice or [TS]

00:25:26   whatever but it was not as if they were like ok steel but we really watching [TS]

00:25:29   ummm maybe they were like it was not you can't run the company by committee at [TS]

00:25:34   you when you have a company's situation you need like strong decisive leadership [TS]

00:25:39   that also happens to be correct yeah jobs almost a man might be getting the [TS]

00:25:44   slightly wrong and there may be one or two board members who he kept on like [TS]

00:25:48   maybe bill campbell is already on the board but he you know but he's friends [TS]

00:25:52   personal friends with Steve Jobs so it's not surprising that he did other bar [TS]

00:25:56   maybe but I maybe wrong maybe even bill campbell was somebody who jobs brought [TS]

00:25:59   on after he came back in 97 but he effectively got most of the existing [TS]

00:26:03   Apple board to commit seppuku you know even longtime members like whatsapp uses [TS]

00:26:11   a mark Marcoola the guy who is like the 3rd or 4th founder of Apple like the big [TS]

00:26:15   investor yeah I mean no surprise there since he was one of the guys of course [TS]

00:26:20   jobs out in in 86 but you know when the board got a job to come back they more [TS]

00:26:28   or less [TS]

00:26:28   part of the deal was in all of you have to sit step down or at least all gifted [TS]

00:26:32   submit her resignation and I'll pick which ones have used a yeah I was saying [TS]

00:26:36   I need to be that the the advantage that Apple and Jobs had was that Apple was in [TS]

00:26:39   way worse shape than Microsoft and like it it's so much easier to do the radical [TS]

00:26:46   scary thing what it's like your only choice like look we're gonna go bankrupt [TS]

00:26:49   otherwise so then you know about the whole board steps down that Steve Jobs [TS]

00:26:52   take over and above the bar with a friend who wants to live well we're [TS]

00:26:56   gonna be out of business if we don't do something and so that sounds good and [TS]

00:26:59   like the board stepping aside it's like they probably thought they were leaving [TS]

00:27:01   a sinking ship like people who didn't have faith in jobs or whatever and that [TS]

00:27:06   the fact that the board was populated with people who are just gonna more or [TS]

00:27:09   less give thumbs up to whatever steve did let him execute his plan over the [TS]

00:27:13   years that he was over the company in his second rain and I if Microsoft board [TS]

00:27:20   something like shareholders of pissed off and put the guy on the board and the [TS]

00:27:23   board like I don't know what the hell to do like those people have no idea of how [TS]

00:27:27   to fix Microsoft none of those [TS]

00:27:28   people if elevated to CEO could fix the company right so I mean as far as we [TS]

00:27:32   know it seems very likely is that they've been overseeing the bomber and [TS]

00:27:35   just kind of going [TS]

00:27:36   hemming and hawing so like you do not want you know rule by committee you want [TS]

00:27:42   something exciting and radical and probably also need to be willing to take [TS]

00:27:49   markets are down further to bring it up so like tech businesses that you know [TS]

00:27:54   nothing about Steve Jobs playbook but you know what he came in he cleaned [TS]

00:27:59   house and already you know dying company canceling projects left and right you [TS]

00:28:04   have to decide what you want Microsoft to be and everything that's not totally [TS]

00:28:06   concentrating on achieving that gold you ditch you don't like put into [TS]

00:28:11   maintenance mode while they're gonna get less updates or whatever you just like [TS]

00:28:14   we gotta cut off at this point America's history can't do that because each one [TS]

00:28:17   of those businesses is you know it's worth like maybe not presented by a lot [TS]

00:28:21   but in real money it's worth on the board good like well what do you do in [TS]

00:28:24   our revenues gonna go down he can't do this I'm not gonna give you you know [TS]

00:28:28   Microsoft doesn't have a year two years to reboot a bunch of things and like [TS]

00:28:32   they're in a tough situation and I think it would be better if their business was [TS]

00:28:37   failing monetarily fortunately it's not right it's it's to draw an analogy is [TS]

00:28:42   like it clearly it's hard to get everyone to act on climate change based [TS]

00:28:48   on evidence that we may be seeing trouble ahead [TS]

00:28:51   whereas it would be a lot easier to get everybody on board if Manhattan rendered [TS]

00:28:55   twenty feet of water [TS]

00:28:56   yep right i mean and you can say well then it's too late but you know that's [TS]

00:29:02   where I was in ninety-seven Apple in ninety-seven was you know manhattan's [TS]

00:29:07   got twenty feet of water [TS]

00:29:09   higher ground floor of every building in an underwater welding jobs thing seems [TS]

00:29:13   opposition was his loss comment on mister building in new city inland right [TS]

00:29:17   then you're not allowed to use gasoline anymore right and you know that's you [TS]

00:29:22   know nobody was gonna nobody would have gone for that you know three four years [TS]

00:29:25   earlier when they should maybe [TS]

00:29:31   so I will just say one more thing before I take the first sponsor but there is [TS]

00:29:36   one person who is currently on the Microsoft Word who could conceivably [TS]

00:29:39   take over as CEO have no idea i guess im bored so well bill gates yet now that [TS]

00:29:47   I've heard that one as well but like he's someone who did leave on his own [TS]

00:29:52   terms right note you know he decided he was gonna leave he decided his successor [TS]

00:29:56   was gonna be he took like a year to walk out the door and he is totally the wrong [TS]

00:30:00   person I think even if you want to do it because I don't know maybe not only [TS]

00:30:07   their own person he he missed the internet thing but he did turn the [TS]

00:30:10   company around in time to time to crash netscape using illegal tactics like I [TS]

00:30:18   don't know if that's all you want running the show but he is definitely of [TS]

00:30:22   the old Microsoft mindset like I don't I don't know if that mindset that mindset [TS]

00:30:27   served him well in the environment that he was in at that time and I don't know [TS]

00:30:31   if he has the even if you want to have the mindset in the skills to succeed in [TS]

00:30:35   the current market because he oversaw a lot of the you know what he's still the [TS]

00:30:40   CEO and they were doing those well he certainly for the pen computing in the [TS]

00:30:43   tablet in a speech recognition I think for a little bit of the smartphone stuff [TS]

00:30:47   that they were doing he was there and all those fields doing crappy things [TS]

00:30:52   before everyone else was doing anything those were there for the taking him and [TS]

00:30:55   he didn't take them he missed the miscalculated they'd spend all this [TS]

00:30:58   money on R&D research products and every year CSE telling you in the future we're [TS]

00:31:03   gonna be like blah blah blah never ship it right and then he walked out the door [TS]

00:31:07   so I don't think he is the guy you want any way in hell that is coming back I [TS]

00:31:14   don't think we're there but it would be a credible choice in the eyes of at [TS]

00:31:21   least significant certainly I think in the business world would be seen as a [TS]

00:31:25   credible choice would be seen as a credible choice in some portion of the [TS]

00:31:29   tech world comes up from everybody like well most popular stock market like it I [TS]

00:31:35   think the board would like it they would sell it would be just like Steve Jobs [TS]

00:31:38   come back to happen here comes feel like it is it's the one with the best optics [TS]

00:31:43   because anyone else you bring [TS]

00:31:44   is going to be an unknown and that's like bad it makes people nervous or like [TS]

00:31:49   best case like so they get Scott Forstall whatever people like I like [TS]

00:31:52   nervous right right that's so Bill Gates is like it's a devil you know that he's [TS]

00:31:57   the one who made like that that is their their best choice if you want the [TS]

00:32:01   highest ratio positive to negative stories on the best reaction of the [TS]

00:32:04   stock price but long-term until they get their best bet I don't think so either [TS]

00:32:08   because the question you have to ask is what would bill gates have done [TS]

00:32:13   differently if he had stayed on as CEO for the past 12 years instead of taking [TS]

00:32:21   chairmanship in having bomber take over what would he have done differently and [TS]

00:32:25   I don't know that the answer is much at all he strikes me as being more more [TS]

00:32:31   ruthless than machiavellian than than bomber and the like he just wants to win [TS]

00:32:35   the game like whether it's a board game or or the game of companies and he will [TS]

00:32:40   do whatever it takes to win the game which is sort of why he was able to [TS]

00:32:43   crush netscape and why you know he was willing to turn the whole company around [TS]

00:32:47   the internet tidal wave memo know that all the stuff I think it takes more than [TS]

00:32:51   that but that is least showing a little more scrap and fight and bombers show [TS]

00:32:56   more bombers has kind of been desperately trying to move in the right [TS]

00:32:59   direction but Gates would just be like up at night thinking about how how can [TS]

00:33:02   outmaneuver these companies who are my competitors and how can I defeat them [TS]

00:33:05   and that that fire I don't know that fires gun on him now or would it still [TS]

00:33:11   there but if he was in charge I like Microsoft would have done more bold [TS]

00:33:16   things than they did under bomber yeah and it is does seem true that he was [TS]

00:33:20   more hands-on may be significantly more hands [TS]

00:33:24   in product development than bombers were was you know that major software [TS]

00:33:29   products went before bill gates for review and certainly without the level [TS]

00:33:35   of taste which we should get back to cause I think it's a fundamental feeling [TS]

00:33:40   of bomber in Microsoft's culture as a whole but in terms of strong being [TS]

00:33:48   strongly opinionated and by his word alone you gotta go back to the drawing [TS]

00:33:52   board Bill Gates had that and I don't know that Kate ever really involved [TS]

00:33:55   himself at that level yet both David Gates was honored and he he was a [TS]

00:34:00   program and he wanted to stop in and bomber was you know MBA type right he [TS]

00:34:04   wasn't he can't tell you like the famous tell from omars Polski things on his [TS]

00:34:10   side about coming to them about some calendaring function in Excel and having [TS]

00:34:14   bomber quiz them and like EB leap year leap second and crazy cases about dates [TS]

00:34:19   and stuff but he brushed up on before he came to the meeting and then I have [TS]

00:34:22   answers from that's not happening with the army nothing is that use to be see [TS]

00:34:25   either but that was that was gates's type attitude because it was a tech [TS]

00:34:30   company because he was a tech nerd you fail to do that but even just a thing [TS]

00:34:34   where gates would go away for like a week or two every year to do like his [TS]

00:34:37   thinking time with his books and everything like that when he came back [TS]

00:34:39   with the internal internet tidal wave memo feel like I've read about breeding [TS]

00:34:43   does internet be keeping up with it I decided you know it's it's a big deal [TS]

00:34:46   now he was always going away and coming coming back with ideas like that and he [TS]

00:34:49   was usually right about the areas they had to be in its just that then they [TS]

00:34:53   executed poorly and made crab meat products that gets back to the taste [TS]

00:34:57   things like he knew that they should be into tablet computing and 10 computing [TS]

00:35:02   and speech recognition in mobile just the products they created there were not [TS]

00:35:07   not good enough to break far enough with the past and you know he can get it done [TS]

00:35:12   one of my favorite Bill Gates stories is permitted Herzfeld folklore website in [TS]

00:35:19   what was the book version revolution in the valley where the first time I think [TS]

00:35:25   it was andy's story but the first time he showed bill gates a macintosh before [TS]

00:35:31   it was released [TS]

00:35:32   and Microsoft they were trying to get Microsoft on board as an app developer [TS]

00:35:36   he caught onto was the mouse pointer animation which was terrific and was the [TS]

00:35:46   sort of thing like to get it to enemy without like trails and likeness in [TS]

00:35:52   gates accused them of that it was somehow like hardware cheap that there [TS]

00:35:59   was something that was in the hardware just to get the mouse pointer to animate [TS]

00:36:03   as as well as it did on 1980 1983 hardware and many many like grilled [TS]

00:36:12   Herzfeld on how they were doing it caught on to a little details like that [TS]

00:36:15   and knew that there must be some you know either they were cheating or it was [TS]

00:36:20   genius that it was working as well as it did I was believed that seamless [TS]

00:36:25   dramatized varying degrees of accuracy in the parts silicon Valerie Valley [TS]

00:36:30   terrible TV-movie way back but any recollection of it does I would take [TS]

00:36:34   that is more accurate than the thing with Noah Wyle but that's that's what [TS]

00:36:39   you get when you when you show something to an engineer and I think this is [TS]

00:36:43   unfair to bill gates but he kind of his kind of the guys name from Amadeus who [TS]

00:36:48   wasn't necessary without his name I forget what have you seen the movie on [TS]

00:36:54   it is a long time ago [TS]

00:36:55   alright so there's this is no sorry he's amazingly talented and this is [TS]

00:36:59   contemporary guy who is sort of Mozart's competitor but is smart enough to [TS]

00:37:05   realize that genius and it's so pissed that he's never gonna be that good and [TS]

00:37:11   the demo targets and so Bill Gates was smart enough to see the Mac and [TS]

00:37:15   immediately notice that cursor and detecting a long enough to ask you know [TS]

00:37:19   to grill them to I gotta find out how you did it seems like every time he [TS]

00:37:22   would see Apple do something like look you know Microsoft is bigger than Apple [TS]

00:37:26   I'm better than Apple I'm Richards and then all the available on the richest [TS]

00:37:30   man in the world i buy software on every desktop but damn those Apple people they [TS]

00:37:33   do this crap he's got a Pawlenty Bill Gates happened he was smart enough to [TS]

00:37:37   have a plan v [TS]

00:37:39   and when he talks about Steve Jobs look after his death in everything that I [TS]

00:37:42   believe the admiration he talks about Steve does not like BS sort of business [TS]

00:37:45   people gotta say nice things about my contemporary competitors I believe he [TS]

00:37:49   really did admire and respect Steve Jobs and indeed a lot of the products that [TS]

00:37:54   Apple and Steve Jobs are able to make and that's that's the bill gates credit [TS]

00:37:58   that he did that and just pissed him off but why can't we make things I nice work [TS]

00:38:03   why are things that nice like he could he had just enough taste to be able to [TS]

00:38:06   know that the cursor movement on the Macintosh that way better than the [TS]

00:38:10   cursor movement on the day been able to do with their you know attempts to do [TS]

00:38:14   similar type of thing and he gets it off and he had to know how it was done right [TS]

00:38:18   it was the same reason why so much of everything you'd drug on the original [TS]

00:38:23   Mac was an outline just a little bit because it was hard to to make things [TS]

00:38:28   anime like that and there was some kind of trick that hurts funding come up with [TS]

00:38:33   it was probably what's his name [TS]

00:38:37   the quick drug I like and yeah i concerned but there was something I had [TS]

00:38:41   something to do with the fact that it was exactly 16 by 16 pixels and they [TS]

00:38:45   couldn't do use the same trick to make say live animation of the whole window [TS]

00:38:49   or even a whole icon but for a 16 by 16 square they can do it [TS]

00:38:54   hardware yeah I think it says everything about gates that he liked latched onto [TS]

00:39:00   it immediately take a break and we'll get back to get back to the taste issue [TS]

00:39:06   and Microsoft [TS]

00:39:08   wanna talk about our first sponsor back police back blaze is an unlimited [TS]

00:39:16   unbridled uncomplicated online backup software costs five bucks a month they [TS]

00:39:23   back up all the data on your computer [TS]

00:39:25   movies music presentations photos everything including any hard drives [TS]

00:39:29   connected external hard drives all your data is available over the web on your [TS]

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00:39:35   everything when I get one file back and get one file back you need to get them [TS]

00:39:40   all back to back with a few clicks it was founded by Acts Apple engineers runs [TS]

00:39:46   native on your Mac it's not some kind of janky thing that it's weird on a Mac [TS]

00:39:50   made by Apple engineers simple as backup software out there to install it and [TS]

00:39:55   they do the rest [TS]

00:39:59   there's a line they suggested I read but I'm gonna read it [TS]

00:40:02   don't let your data died in a fire ball back it up now that place great service [TS]

00:40:09   five bucks a month everything is offline [TS]

00:40:13   disaster strikes you can get them to FedEx you and external hard drive that [TS]

00:40:18   restores all of your data no add-ons no gimmicks they don't give any kind of [TS]

00:40:22   goofy you you'd think they'd say it's five bucks a month but then again he was [TS]

00:40:26   all these charges are add-ons and stuff like that no five bucks a month [TS]

00:40:29   unlimited backup here's what you do find out more go to www.creators.com / daring [TS]

00:40:40   fireball instead of using the talk show these during fire but I don't care [TS]

00:40:47   everybody knows it's the same thing [TS]

00:40:49   show should probably be called the turn fireball show anyway [TS]

00:40:52   www.blackberry.com / during viable and then don't know you came from the show [TS]

00:40:58   can't recommend it enough apart the fireball them because they remember the [TS]

00:41:03   like the old bag placed site i like it a little movie in the header that showed [TS]

00:41:08   someone squirting lighter fluid on the laptop and landing on fire there there [TS]

00:41:14   early versions of their website was like you know torture computer don't worry we [TS]

00:41:18   got your data backed up this thing I like about places that I mean I use it [TS]

00:41:22   on the front of now the hardest thing I've been about customers back when they [TS]

00:41:27   were when they did that the lighter fluid thing on their website and it'd be [TS]

00:41:33   like okay and we'll send you you know if you can get you get your ad online but [TS]

00:41:38   will send your hard drive because it's way easier to get that amount of data [TS]

00:41:40   and they showed like the hard drive size they will send you an ass like if you're [TS]

00:41:43   stuck with it anymore [TS]

00:41:44   one hard drive will send you multiple hard drives and I look at the size of [TS]

00:41:47   the hard drives like all my stuff not gonna put their cause I got so much [TS]

00:41:49   stuff in multiples of tobacco but that was so long ago they keep increasing the [TS]

00:41:55   size of the hard drives the right so like I'm still paying the same rate I [TS]

00:41:58   was always paying but now there's like three terabyte hard over something I [TS]

00:42:02   forgot how big it is but it's way bigger than it was when I first signed up so I [TS]

00:42:07   mean you can imagine it can be like well when you signed up for $5 a month only [TS]

00:42:10   got your 320 gigabyte hard drive and if you want a better version you have to [TS]

00:42:14   sign up they just keep making the hard drive size which is great because what [TS]

00:42:18   you want you want them to feel like the biggest rival candidate that point you [TS]

00:42:21   know paying for them to FedEx you a big hard drive is it the least of your [TS]

00:42:25   concerns like house burned down the cardinal sins of backup are not backing [TS]

00:42:31   up everything they back up everything right if you only backup XY and Z but [TS]

00:42:35   you don't back up w guess what [TS]

00:42:37   W is what you're gonna need to backup everything murphy's law says it's the [TS]

00:42:42   thing you don't back up with a backup everything not backing up frequently [TS]

00:42:47   enough if you only run manual backups it's the time when you don't run it for [TS]

00:42:52   two weeks that that's when you're gonna that's when disasters strike murphy's [TS]

00:42:56   law guarantees it their software just you know you do a big back up and then [TS]

00:43:01   adjusting you know updates incrementally without you doing anything and then [TS]

00:43:05   what's see offsite well there are side by definition an online backup service I [TS]

00:43:11   would add a fourth which is not testing restores and restores anytime you want [TS]

00:43:16   to go to their website and have you know pick files at random and get a zip file [TS]

00:43:20   containing them and confirm that they are the 55 miles right I have not done [TS]

00:43:25   it just a test restarted it actually restorative like since I think to ask [TS]

00:43:31   you can you know testing restores something I should be doing on a more [TS]

00:43:36   regular basis just checking but over a matter of course of just having the [TS]

00:43:39   services like where the heck is that file sometimes it's easier to dig [TS]

00:43:42   through your backups and get it back and I am you know as a side effect I'm also [TS]

00:43:47   testing the restore process every time I pull out from backwards backup rights [TS]

00:43:51   you're at some meeting you all you brought with you is your iPhone [TS]

00:43:54   in a meeting you need some files from your computer you can use back please [TS]

00:43:58   happen anyway great stuff WBW by plays back blaze dot com slash during fireball [TS]

00:44:04   my only problem with them as I have trouble pronouncing the name I wanna say [TS]

00:44:09   black base which is probably a website so I really think part of you know [TS]

00:44:21   bombers comeuppance is that the man has no taste and whatever lack of taste Bill [TS]

00:44:27   Gates had I think bombers wheres and I keep pointing to 5.2 it for years i've [TS]

00:44:35   pointed to it for years as proof that they should have fired him years ago the [TS]

00:44:41   infamous interview he gave when the iPhone was first announced when he [TS]

00:44:44   laughed at it on camera and said you know a $600 phone with no keyboard you [TS]

00:44:50   gotta be kidding me and just laughed and laughed and laughed I have pointed to [TS]

00:44:56   that for years as proof that this guy's asleep at the switch was the wrong guy [TS]

00:45:02   for the job and the pointed out the people I every time I play link to an [TS]

00:45:07   email from people saying well what do you expect him to say that's not prove [TS]

00:45:11   anything he's the CEO over rival company he can't say good things about the [TS]

00:45:14   iPhone but that's the point he didn't just not say good things about the [TS]

00:45:18   iPhone he laughed at it there's a there's a video you can look at now and [TS]

00:45:22   it looks hot looks horrendous tonight so it's not just him [TS]

00:45:26   pooh-poohing the iPhone or or saying you know pointing out one bad thing about it [TS]

00:45:33   like the price the original 2007 iPhone which they tried to sell unsubsidized [TS]

00:45:38   was very expensive to $600 phone was not going to take over them so he could have [TS]

00:45:44   just said look it's too expensive I you know and then talk up whatever the best [TS]

00:45:48   Windows Mobile phones were of the time there is a way to play that on camera [TS]

00:45:52   that you know stuck to a Windows Mobile central line [TS]

00:46:00   but which didn't dismiss the iPhone or or didn't mark the iPhone I should well [TS]

00:46:07   I don't think he really believed that I do it I think I don't think he looked at [TS]

00:46:11   the iPhone I don't think he looked at the iPhone thought holy ship we're [TS]

00:46:14   fucked well he wouldn't I don't think he understood the depth of the problem but [TS]

00:46:19   like it's kind of a cold war-era my mentality where as soon as the USA does [TS]

00:46:23   anything you know fighter jets are 10 times our pilots are 10 times better [TS]

00:46:29   than theirs are more tanks and you will never like its propaganda like as soon [TS]

00:46:33   as did the iPhone comes out like denny's is a company man is gonna say Windows [TS]

00:46:38   Mobile he would plot the stats about we sell this many phones and we've been [TS]

00:46:42   doing this for this long look at this thing and it's terrible in every [TS]

00:46:44   possible way it's like it's it's you know it's propaganda against the enemy [TS]

00:46:49   and that is his first and second the problem with having that be your first [TS]

00:46:53   instinct as CEO to have the reaction I think it's disingenuous or whatever but [TS]

00:46:57   eventually you start to convince yourself because you keep saying those [TS]

00:47:00   things like I think eventually because he doesn't want to believe that this [TS]

00:47:03   thing is is better as everyone says it is that pisses him off he starts saying [TS]

00:47:09   these things and eventually starts to like believe them more than he should [TS]

00:47:12   but I don't think I don't think he ever really believed all the things he was [TS]

00:47:19   saying about how terrible the iPhone is I think he went back to the people in [TS]

00:47:22   his team and said why does why aren't our phones like this why at the very [TS]

00:47:25   least just simply saying why doesn't the preso same things with the latest [TS]

00:47:28   version of Windows Mobile to say about this you know i mean he's gonna go back [TS]

00:47:32   and yelled at people and and and ask why that's a problem even if he doesn't [TS]

00:47:35   understand why right and the taste thing like when we say that bad taste like we [TS]

00:47:40   kind of mean is that on the same taste or the same taste as Apple because he [TS]

00:47:44   does have a form of taste but his taste runs towards things that don't make for [TS]

00:47:48   a successful consumer products so it's not like he has no taste he has a taste [TS]

00:47:54   in a design is that it can are as embodied in I don't know what what can [TS]

00:47:57   you look at to figure it out as embodied in the product the way he he managed [TS]

00:48:01   Microsoft has invited to his wardrobe transportation choices like he has some [TS]

00:48:06   taste is just different than the taste that we have [TS]

00:48:09   and at this point he said you know so what your taste different just different [TS]

00:48:14   but I think Apple at this point is vindicated enjoying it just like the [TS]

00:48:18   same to say what was what was Sony's tastes like when they were the king of [TS]

00:48:22   the consumer electronics cell what is apples taste like there is a through [TS]

00:48:25   line between those companies and it is not like the taste of Microsoft's Steve [TS]

00:48:30   Ballmer so it's the incorrect taste that have if you want to be in this type of [TS]

00:48:34   business [TS]

00:48:35   Sony when they're on top had a very distinctive taste i I liked you know it [TS]

00:48:41   was usually black like black devices and when they weren't they would you know go [TS]

00:48:49   almost radical directions like the the waterproof Walkman and were like bright [TS]

00:48:54   yellow ya know that they're so I still like that if you look at how to be [TS]

00:48:59   amazed it like that they'd fallen so low right but they still have some designers [TS]

00:49:04   in a doing interesting things like you know look look at the design of the [TS]

00:49:07   PlayStation 2 for instance it was very futuristic an impressive and PlayStation [TS]

00:49:12   3 to look like George Foreman grill but like always everything we do is [TS]

00:49:15   interesting and like in terms of design unfortunate the rest of the rest of the [TS]

00:49:20   things that the company that is not probably doing that great and now [TS]

00:49:22   they're like a movie studio and all sorts of other entitlements and things [TS]

00:49:26   but design wise there is there are some good design is still at Sony and they do [TS]

00:49:31   make things that sort of capture the imagination more than like compared the [TS]

00:49:35   original Xbox which is also black plastic just like a ps2 but if you can't [TS]

00:49:42   tell the difference from the original Xbox and ps2 in terms of design like [TS]

00:49:45   there's your problem can't detect the difference both blasting the black [TS]

00:49:50   plastic slats and them damn about the same ones obviously bigger than the [TS]

00:49:53   other but during the size difference like this a huge difference was between [TS]

00:49:57   those two things I would say the controllers to i mean and I know that [TS]

00:50:02   controllers are it's almost like we're gonna get into how quickly your keyboard [TS]

00:50:05   should be but I'm not a gamer but I just thought just as I guess snap judgment [TS]

00:50:10   level that PlayStation controllers have always looked very appealing to me and [TS]

00:50:14   Xbox once for example not so much unfortunately when it comes to [TS]

00:50:18   controllers are things you're going to hold in your hand how it looks like [TS]

00:50:21   that's that's been so many spelling there and and apples failing to make the [TS]

00:50:24   reason you know the hockey puck mouse or even the current Magic Mouse too low you [TS]

00:50:29   can if you have a a visual design aesthetic and you want things to look [TS]

00:50:34   just so that is exactly the wrong instinct to indulge when you're making [TS]

00:50:38   something that fits inside someone's hand and they supposed to look at while [TS]

00:50:41   they're using right like i mean they saw me does make they did make their control [TS]

00:50:44   is beautiful and symmetrical with like conical sections for the little things [TS]

00:50:47   that you hope that's not what shake people's hands are in and so it looks [TS]

00:50:51   like a nice piece of art but not great holder is Microsoft went the other [TS]

00:50:54   direction said we're selling to thirty year old guys make the controller bigger [TS]

00:50:59   make it a listen [TS]

00:51:01   stranger and yet another thing but i i think the Xbox controller see more [TS]

00:51:05   successful control isn't than the PlayStation kronenberg looking at the [TS]

00:51:08   two of them one of them looks like a hamburger and looks like a sleek [TS]

00:51:12   futuristic thing here's another bitter taste member of the beta back in [TS]

00:51:22   September 2010 when Windows Phone 7 was released to manufacturing and they held [TS]

00:51:29   a funeral parade in Microsoft campus for the BlackBerry and iPhone compare that [TS]

00:51:39   compare that to Apple which had a funeral for its own operating system on [TS]

00:51:45   state for their own product beyond propaganda they do the you know start [TS]

00:51:50   your photocopiers and trashing windows or whatever but but that's i mean in all [TS]

00:51:56   cases though he seems kind of unseemly like if if you are the underdogs ninety [TS]

00:52:00   need that to motivate the troops and like when Apple was the underdog that's [TS]

00:52:05   when it worked and I started to become the over dog that's when it became a [TS]

00:52:08   little bit distasteful but at that point like Microsoft like this momentum of [TS]

00:52:13   being the big dog and it's the kind of unseemly for them to be trashing the [TS]

00:52:18   other competitors but like that just fits into the cold war mentality in the [TS]

00:52:21   propaganda Sligo everything we do is $100 [TS]

00:52:24   everything they do is terrible we are the best we're gonna win and that's not [TS]

00:52:28   that's not helpful like that type of propaganda doesn't motivate the troops [TS]

00:52:32   because they know it's not true just as much as you know or should know that [TS]

00:52:35   it's not true like there's a there's a measured rational response that you let [TS]

00:52:40   you know the people in your company know that you understand what is better about [TS]

00:52:45   the other products and you're still behind you still you believe your [TS]

00:52:47   company can best them but now you know what you have to do and that is not [TS]

00:52:51   communicated by just blind rara cheerleading for everything your company [TS]

00:52:56   does right I think it's kinda dispiriting if you're the troops if you [TS]

00:53:02   can't believe everything that youre leader says right I mean I think [TS]

00:53:06   everybody at Microsoft Windows Phone 7 no matter how well it did and no matter [TS]

00:53:12   how good it was and it was certainly a lot better than everything [TS]

00:53:16   microsoft done in mobile before but it wasn't gonna kill the iPhone I don't [TS]

00:53:21   think there is anybody there maybe except for Ballmer they could have that [TS]

00:53:25   meeting of the head Windows Phone 7 series Phone 7 you know you're before [TS]

00:53:30   the iPhone right right then it really would've been like wow where the hell [TS]

00:53:33   did this come from because it was so much better than what they had before [TS]

00:53:35   like they were they were justifiably proud of but again they the overshoot [TS]

00:53:38   they got it you know and the thing about bearing rim like I think that's the [TS]

00:53:42   moment I was that one could call because I think everyone at that point could [TS]

00:53:45   anyone with a brain could see that room was in serious trouble that was actually [TS]

00:53:48   a good called on their part I think everybody in the computer industry could [TS]

00:53:51   see it you know because I think that everybody could see and that was the [TS]

00:53:54   whole basis of the big white room was screwed in 20 2008 was simply from the [TS]

00:53:59   basis of look we call them smart phones but they're not phones their little tiny [TS]

00:54:04   personal computers that happen to have cellphone networking and RIM has no [TS]

00:54:10   experience making computers they make little messaging devices they're screwed [TS]

00:54:15   because they can't make computers and they eventually realize that when they [TS]

00:54:20   bought what you call it the axe yeah yeah the QNX which was you know got them [TS]

00:54:27   in the game with the route you know by all measures you know say what you want [TS]

00:54:30   about the [TS]

00:54:30   BlackBerry 10 OS but you know the QNX wore underneath as you know super well [TS]

00:54:37   regarded as you know it's the real deal but it was way too little too late and I [TS]

00:54:43   think that's clearly not even Microsoft can see these things are a little [TS]

00:54:47   computers now the game [TS]

00:54:50   yeah I was put on Monday barring there if they were there [TS]

00:54:53   funeral else it was BlackBerry and iPhone and iPhone nothing else to do [TS]

00:54:59   they live together and the reason that you mention Nokia the same reason [TS]

00:55:03   everything ok was invincible busy look at the sales number like well no guess I [TS]

00:55:06   was like oh gillian phones every year so we're not even talk about them as I was [TS]

00:55:10   a nobody could be on top forever well as business sense of you know not realizing [TS]

00:55:15   that what they're selling are you know feature phones done well and I wouldn't [TS]

00:55:19   be surprised I forget when Stephen Elop came ok took over as nokia CEO which is [TS]

00:55:25   certainly when it became much more likely that they would license Windows [TS]

00:55:29   as an operating system but I wouldn't be surprised if they already had Nokia you [TS]

00:55:33   know on the list up we'd like them to make Windows Phone 7 they can you know [TS]

00:55:39   that the big thing the big similarity between rim and Apple was that they were [TS]

00:55:43   the two companies that built the whole kit you know that hardware and the OS [TS]

00:55:47   you know the companies they couldn't afford them awkward anybody who was a [TS]

00:55:52   potential OEM for Windows that's probably true but yet but yeah right [TS]

00:55:56   like any company should know that you know some other company having huge head [TS]

00:56:02   start on the software ecosystem is a big problem it should have a Microsoft is [TS]

00:56:05   that was like such such a key factor in their success with the PC getting the [TS]

00:56:10   apps getting all of them like by that point the App Store had moved along had [TS]

00:56:14   no but nobody in Microsoft believe like people cheering the audience believed in [TS]

00:56:20   their heart of hearts that Windows Phone 7 was going to sweep the iPhone off the [TS]

00:56:25   table anytime soon [TS]

00:56:27   best-case the boy you know three years from now we may you know be tied with [TS]

00:56:32   them in terms of developer support number about its best case scenario [TS]

00:56:35   right I think anybody at Microsoft even bomb in anybody who could have been that [TS]

00:56:40   should have been the CEO of [TS]

00:56:42   should have been able to realize immediately the day of the iPhone being [TS]

00:56:47   unveiled on stage in January 2007 that wow we've been caught flat-footed we [TS]

00:56:53   need to start today I mean right now [TS]

00:56:57   immediate emergency meeting we've got a we've gotta think about how we're gonna [TS]

00:57:01   catch up to this just by looking at what Apple showed on the first day with the [TS]

00:57:08   iPhone but even if you didn't have the taste to recognize that the moment where [TS]

00:57:12   everybody at Microsoft should have had that you know this is an emergency [TS]

00:57:16   meeting would have been a year later when the App Store was announced and [TS]

00:57:22   response was so incredibly strong from that such a diverse array of developers [TS]

00:57:29   i I can forgive them for not believing you're not going to believe they have [TS]

00:57:34   announcement and because it was so different after was so different that [TS]

00:57:37   there was a good chance like if you didn't you didn't understand like they [TS]

00:57:41   were showing that there's like the same kind of weird could go either way right [TS]

00:57:45   and I would say like a year later that's way too late I would say the time the [TS]

00:57:48   time when you when you should have that meeting if you didn't have an amoeba [TS]

00:57:52   concealable see what's going to happen right time to have a meeting is once you [TS]

00:57:58   are a bad as any of the c-level executives american chopper anybody is [TS]

00:58:01   able to go to the store buy and iPhone bring home and play with it then you [TS]

00:58:05   better have been meaning to you like we've got a problem here but you play [TS]

00:58:08   with that phone and you realize I don't want to go back to the phones like the [TS]

00:58:12   iPhone was a compelling product once you had in your hands and that's when you [TS]

00:58:15   need to have that meeting because the proof is in the product right $600 or no [TS]

00:58:20   if you play around that thing you know on day one the original iPhone and don't [TS]

00:58:24   realize damn I cannot go back to my windows mobile phone after this we need [TS]

00:58:28   to have a meeting that's the problem that's a good point and it was it was it [TS]

00:58:32   was it was a product that was as good as the demos claimed it was and you can't [TS]

00:58:36   be sure that like they put up on the screen like Microsoft right you can't [TS]

00:58:42   you can't tell if we didn't although he seemed amazing we trust we had faith in [TS]

00:58:46   Apple until you get that thing you can do not sure because it was so weird and [TS]

00:58:49   different [TS]

00:58:50   i but the proof is in the product and had to know but I'm they all had iPhones [TS]

00:58:57   maybe maybe the fact that Microsoft has a history of of sort of sham demos it [TS]

00:59:02   may be that actually set them back in six months as they just you know much [TS]

00:59:07   like RIM's famous response where they actually had a meeting you know the week [TS]

00:59:11   after the iPhone came out and came away with the conclusion that Apple had faked [TS]

00:59:16   the whole thing because it was impossible you know maybe Microsoft [TS]

00:59:20   reaction like it but it's the type you know go khobar analogy again so they [TS]

00:59:25   watch the demo right and go down to their phone team they were just as [TS]

00:59:31   iPhone demo we're not sure that that's going to fly over its BS or we don't [TS]

00:59:34   know but you know what do you think of it head of Windows Mobile and Windows [TS]

00:59:38   Moses our phones are strong we don't have to worry [TS]

00:59:41   strong Windows Mobile that's what they have to do as a company man down the [TS]

00:59:45   chain of command you never tell your superior we're screwed in the thing [TS]

00:59:48   we're working on these past few years does not hold a candle to what they have [TS]

00:59:52   and we need to regroup write your initial reaction is always don't worry [TS]

00:59:56   everything's fine cuz that's like that's how you say you got your job to tell you [TS]

01:00:00   keep your job you're always just say no everything's great we're great our [TS]

01:00:03   phones are the best because that's the company line and just keep your peanuts [TS]

01:00:06   themselves while having a sinking feeling in the pit of the stomach that [TS]

01:00:09   that's bad I think you had a good point to about the developers and one thing [TS]

01:00:20   that I think should have been terrifying the Microsoft and they have any company [TS]

01:00:26   understands the value of having third-party developers support for your [TS]

01:00:32   platform it's them the scariest thing was that Apple almost literally didn't [TS]

01:00:43   do any work to get that support they actually work against it and we're [TS]

01:00:47   telling developers at the beginning we're not even gonna let you write apps [TS]

01:00:51   for this and third-party developers alike please let us write apps and they [TS]

01:00:56   said no [TS]

01:00:57   little web no and then they were like please let us write apps and then like [TS]

01:01:01   within a month of the thing coming out you know Craig Hockenberry and and Lucas [TS]

01:01:06   Newman figured out how to write apps around Apple's back with no actual [TS]

01:01:12   support no STK you know Lucas Newman had hit the lights out game and I was like [TS]

01:01:19   what when the iPhone was announced like that was the an amazing to me that you [TS]

01:01:23   know for all the source I doesn't doesn't see these things are these Steve [TS]

01:01:27   Jobs initially like that I think was macro right when it was announced in [TS]

01:01:32   January so at Macworld you cable sasser did a podcast like in like the Macworld [TS]

01:01:38   fishbowl or whatever you were talking about of course talking about the iPhone [TS]

01:01:42   and I wasn't there but I did the one video ever was a nice day I did a little [TS]

01:01:48   video and my video was not of how awesome the iPhone is there anything I [TS]

01:01:51   video was about the fact that every single person at Macworld in our circle [TS]

01:01:57   of people who like Mac Developer sold that phone said the same thing that I [TS]

01:02:01   quoted from cable from your podcast like can we write apps for this phone because [TS]

01:02:06   that would be awesome I'm paraphrasing but I think I got it exactly right and [TS]

01:02:10   that's that was the story macworld was like we see this phone this phone is [TS]

01:02:13   amazing every month like immediately not like a month later a year later thinking [TS]

01:02:17   about that like as soon as a tech nerd saw that phone like I want I want to my [TS]

01:02:22   apt to be on that phone I want to write out that was the day of the announcement [TS]

01:02:26   he was saying that and that will you know and that's the video average like [TS]

01:02:30   the song dance with me because everyone was like yes you me phone we together [TS]

01:02:34   make beautiful apps right-wing know how do I guess you don't know anything about [TS]

01:02:37   the things we don't know what makes a good eye for now but we know we want to [TS]

01:02:40   be there we want to write out that there's a template to Apple's Keynote [TS]

01:02:44   presentations and you can almost see well not like a literal keynote template [TS]

01:02:49   but there probably is for that too but a forum that they typically follow and and [TS]

01:02:55   one of them often is for a new thing [TS]

01:02:59   they'll they'll say here's ten things we wanted to know about it a go through the [TS]

01:03:02   10th but you can also see then how that maybe they started with 40 things and [TS]

01:03:08   they say here's the forty things we might want to talk about what are the 10 [TS]

01:03:11   that'll be the best to talk about in the thing and I'm sure that you know it's a [TS]

01:03:14   weeks-long [TS]

01:03:16   do these tend to do these you do this they pick the ten they rehearse the 10th [TS]

01:03:20   Ave am ready to go and then there's often a slide where they'll show like [TS]

01:03:25   the other thirty or forty things at once lived with all these different other [TS]

01:03:30   features in various sizes of of myriad and they'll say look and there's all [TS]

01:03:35   this stuff too and at the iPhone debut in Macworld that slide had up in like [TS]

01:03:42   the upper right corner one of the words was Coco like they never did Steve Jobs [TS]

01:03:48   never said Coco it was just a word on a slide with like thirty other features of [TS]

01:03:52   the iPhone but he did say that he said it runs OS 1010 was a riot that brief [TS]

01:04:00   naming things right he said it runs OS 10 and up on that slide it said Coco and [TS]

01:04:06   like you said in our crowd everybody was already over the fact that it was so [TS]

01:04:11   awesome looking but it was that they'd already start you know they've realized [TS]

01:04:14   that this thing you know if it was if that was true that you could build ups [TS]

01:04:19   because that's how they made their abs you know that it was you know all these [TS]

01:04:24   like jurassic park this is a unique system I know this I know Coco I can [TS]

01:04:28   write an app for that phone that that just by him saying it runs OS 10 and [TS]

01:04:33   that word Coco that everybody in our crowd had already figured out that iOS [TS]

01:04:37   was what iOS is that it was the mythical stripped down version of OS 10 with the [TS]

01:04:44   next up frameworks for application development and everyone wanted to write [TS]

01:04:48   and act like we all saw the abbey and it's kind of like Apple's own ass [TS]

01:04:52   backwards into success like the same thing with jobs you know refusing to [TS]

01:04:55   make iTunes for Windows for so long I had to be argued down by the [TS]

01:04:59   the rest of the you know slightly less stubborn executive team at Apple like [TS]

01:05:05   fine when they get for Windows let these stupid iPod become a runaway success [TS]

01:05:08   that's what you want fine go ahead don't have it I was like well I thought I [TS]

01:05:14   would have second sponsor break I won't tell you about this another repeat [TS]

01:05:19   sponsor just by coincidence but I know that they have also sponsored the ATP [TS]

01:05:25   they know their audience this is transporter by by our friends at [TS]

01:05:31   connected data I remember transporter transporter is your own private [TS]

01:05:36   distributed storage service again this analogy comes from them I'm not making [TS]

01:05:43   it up it's like your own private Dropbox you buy a piece of hardware from you [TS]

01:05:49   install the hardware right there in your home or office where everyone it you can [TS]

01:05:53   buy more than one of them you can distribute them you sign up for your [TS]

01:05:56   transporter account and you get a little shared Dropbox style storage system I [TS]

01:06:06   don't know how you describe it just works you install the software you [TS]

01:06:09   install the hardware and then all the sudden whatever you put in your [TS]

01:06:12   transporter is on all of your transporters why would she uses instead [TS]

01:06:16   of Dropbox it's because you control in on the hardware this is not online [TS]

01:06:21   stores there are clouds doors there is no mysterious transporter place where [TS]

01:06:25   they have your data your data only exists on these hardware devices that [TS]

01:06:30   you won't which is important for untold many reasons some people have to based [TS]

01:06:35   on client regulations or their privacy record things HIPAA things for for [TS]

01:06:41   people who work in medicine I don't know if any of you have heard about this [TS]

01:06:45   there's an organization in the you s called the NSA that is apparently [TS]

01:06:49   listening to John and I record the show right now all sorts of reasons why you [TS]

01:06:54   might want to control privately owned [TS]

01:06:57   well guess what they've got version 2.0 software coming out of beta its they've [TS]

01:07:04   got early access to it [TS]

01:07:06   whole bunch of amazing new features they have new videos that show you how to set [TS]

01:07:12   up a transporter how easy it is to use with your Mac how easy it is to share [TS]

01:07:16   files and folders with friends and colleagues and you can watch those [TS]

01:07:20   videos at WWW dot filed transporter dot com how to howto howw dash deal I'll bet [TS]

01:07:32   if you just want to their home page private filers videos to have a special [TS]

01:07:35   offer for listeners of the talk show to celebrate the early access release of [TS]

01:07:41   their 2.0 software connected data is offering listeners of the show [TS]

01:07:47   50 bucks off their purchase of a transporter this applies to all three [TS]

01:07:52   configurations of their hard work you can buy the zero terabyte that's for the [TS]

01:07:57   nerds that's if you uninstall your own address [TS]

01:07:59   kind of a call option they also have models with one terabyte terabytes dress [TS]

01:08:06   no matter which one you choose you could save 50 bucks I mean that's a serious [TS]

01:08:10   discount that is like I mean that's no joke I have to do to save that money is [TS]

01:08:16   used this code talk eight TLK 8 you want to act now because I code doesn't last [TS]

01:08:24   forever [TS]

01:08:25   the discount is only available through midnight september fifteenth so don't [TS]

01:08:32   wait till the 15th and try to guess which timezone midnight the explorations [TS]

01:08:36   in just go now to check it out if you like it buy it used the code you'll save [TS]

01:08:41   50 bucks but doable for September 15th at filed transporter store.com [TS]

01:08:47   transporter [TS]

01:08:52   I do i just i just promoted it to my little network attached storage area in [TS]

01:08:56   the basement of all ups the transporter up to it that's what I like about [TS]

01:08:59   network attached storage as you can put it somewhere like completely out of [TS]

01:09:03   sight and it just seems like magic number where you are in the world like [TS]

01:09:06   you have access to the storage and I know it sitting in my basement I know [TS]

01:09:10   it's you know I know where it is but it seems like magic really great guys group [TS]

01:09:15   company we're just talking about what was the last thing Microsoft PowerPoint [TS]

01:09:24   Microsoft yeah we're a little bit of dancing on their grave but it's kind of [TS]

01:09:30   a bit unseemly any other names and hear their names on it we want to talk about [TS]

01:09:34   what about Steven Sinofsky what about bringing him back I don't know if he [TS]

01:09:39   knew I don't know if he knows how to make markets accessible I think he's a [TS]

01:09:44   smart guy and I think he has some good ideas but I mean he's not a terrible I [TS]

01:09:50   don't think if they brought him back I wouldn't say like it would require there [TS]

01:09:56   to be like unbeknownst to us you know that before he was pushed out by bomber [TS]

01:10:03   that you know the board said well aware that you know whatever the disagreement [TS]

01:10:09   was with polymer that the board agrees that Sinofsky should have won that [TS]

01:10:12   anti-social though he seems like hard to get on with this in the same vein as [TS]

01:10:18   forestall yeah but that might work better if he's the CEO is better if he [TS]

01:10:24   has good ideas [TS]

01:10:25   right well I mean he did like I don't know I can't I can't get a read on him [TS]

01:10:31   he certainly has a lot of the aspects that you want and that he's kinda like [TS]

01:10:34   he's got that quality of like he's going to boldly do things I just don't have [TS]

01:10:39   quite enough be that he is going to do the right things I also don't have quite [TS]

01:10:45   enough faith to believe that he is going to bend in the way that you would want [TS]

01:10:49   him to bend like Steve Jobs pig-headed stubborn and obnoxious but the best [TS]

01:10:53   thing like that says that you know he defined that practically in the CEO [TS]

01:10:56   space and yet he was able to be argued down into doing in iTunes on Windows [TS]

01:11:01   being pissy about it and everything but the fact that he was able to allow that [TS]

01:11:05   to happen [TS]

01:11:06   speaks volumes like because you know if if the stereotype of steve Jobs was [TS]

01:11:12   actually true there's no way that happen that would have been a terrible mistake [TS]

01:11:15   so I don't know if Sandusky is the type of guy who is gonna be bold to have [TS]

01:11:19   great ideas like and power through but no when like all the other smart people [TS]

01:11:23   you surround yourself are you arguing against you that sometimes you should [TS]

01:11:26   give in maine uski I don't know him well enough you know I'm just trying I was [TS]

01:11:32   trying to pick somebody from within Microsoft and even though Sinofsky is no [TS]

01:11:36   longer within Microsoft I think if they named him as CEO be seen sort of as an [TS]

01:11:40   internal you know it would be a repudiate a big repudiation of bomber [TS]

01:11:45   about the the all the guys that with the carrier project that they can career and [TS]

01:11:52   then that teams that have spread to the four winds who is that there was J [TS]

01:11:55   Allard JJJ is just the letter j I went to school with him so I can imagine [TS]

01:12:01   somebody went to school with Microsoft's I'm coming off list Robbie Bach yeah [TS]

01:12:08   that's what I was thinking of like so if if the vision is Microsoft is like going [TS]

01:12:12   to be remade as a consumer electronic services company that makes devices and [TS]

01:12:17   hardware and software that's division which Ballmer articulated the board [TS]

01:12:22   agrees that Microsoft you going to sort of be kind of like a plan that way [TS]

01:12:26   pulling somebody from the side of Microsoft there was always on the [TS]

01:12:30   consumer electronics that like the Xbox guys around the block was involved Xbox [TS]

01:12:33   I believe in career in about that stuff those if this is what you are Microsoft [TS]

01:12:38   to be in the future [TS]

01:12:40   those guys might be some place to look because that was always their passion [TS]

01:12:43   was always to pull Microsoft in that direction NJ lard and those guys you [TS]

01:12:47   know brought the plan to Bill Gates said why doesn't my game console and were [TS]

01:12:52   able to make that happen within Microsoft shows that they have some [TS]

01:12:54   ability to navigate the political dangers of the company and make things [TS]

01:12:58   happen and they were doing the career thing and you know got Canada knows it [TS]

01:13:01   was any good or not but like their instincts are in that direction so if [TS]

01:13:04   you want to do that and pulled it off without having it called you know [TS]

01:13:09   windows game platform certified 2000 and without a winning kind of a mean I guess [TS]

01:13:18   Xbox has always almost certain it has always run with the windows and T [TS]

01:13:22   colonel and that you know programming games for the Xbox was always been a [TS]

01:13:28   part of the appeal is supposedly that it was a lot like writing Windows PC games [TS]

01:13:33   Xbox direct access their 3d right but that it's you know it from a consumer [TS]

01:13:38   standpoint of branding standpoint and a user interface standpoint that no legacy [TS]

01:13:43   whatsoever it was just this is what a game platform should look like [TS]

01:13:47   crapping on the Xbox like that product line in terms like it you know if you [TS]

01:13:51   look at over its entire life I believe it is your money losing money I would [TS]

01:13:57   write downs for their hardware problems with the red ring of death and like the [TS]

01:14:00   beginning the Xbox really expensive to make whatever but I always come back to [TS]

01:14:04   it as that that should be held up as a success [TS]

01:14:07   financially maybe not but like they entered a very difficult market with you [TS]

01:14:11   know fierce competitors an established market and we're able to make a name for [TS]

01:14:16   himself that now they are always a serious contender to be number one any [TS]

01:14:19   console generation and the value of that may be diminishing but it shows that [TS]

01:14:24   Microsoft like it's it's it's like Microsoft did something right they you [TS]

01:14:27   know kind of sort of with fumbles or whatever but there are so many people [TS]

01:14:31   who would never even think of entering the market is like a bunch of sharks in [TS]

01:14:34   their right and Microsoft did it and succeeded in taking us to their credit [TS]

01:14:38   yeah and I think that you know it's like they could have one of the ways that [TS]

01:14:46   that come the day that the iPhone shipped in 2007 and had the do what they [TS]

01:14:51   should have had the hell we gonna do [TS]

01:14:53   moment that that team could have proposed something called like expand [TS]

01:14:58   and pasted on the Xbox branding and say look why don't we make something [TS]

01:15:03   you know gaming type thing and we can also you know they couldn't depart like [TS]

01:15:11   the portable gaming space has been a real thing for a long time Sony reported [TS]

01:15:14   to the Game Boy right so the next logical step for Microsoft you know say [TS]

01:15:19   we are now established player in the in the console space why don't we also make [TS]

01:15:23   a handheld and that like to limit of Microsoft's corporate tolerance for [TS]

01:15:28   strategy tax type thing like woe is gonna be anything portable your hands [TS]

01:15:32   it's gonna play xbox games it's going to be named whatever the group is working [TS]

01:15:36   on Microsoft's current tablet edition right and that one gets killed by this [TS]

01:15:40   tragedy acts like I we let you do this Xbox thing without having the Windows [TS]

01:15:43   logo pop up and stuff like that but there's no way in hell you're making [TS]

01:15:46   like the Microsoft Game Boy because the phone group doesn't like it and then [TS]

01:15:52   it's all scratchy tax thing and you know that's why the Xbox moment was like kind [TS]

01:15:56   of amazing that they were able to get that product but like the therapist that [TS]

01:15:59   was like to limit is losing money you're in no position to dictate the portable [TS]

01:16:04   everyone knows intend to you know market sewn up anyway so forget it and so they [TS]

01:16:08   never did make the Microsoft Game Boy and yeah and it's it speaks to the [TS]

01:16:14   credibility of the Xbox though in like you said like that it should be seen as [TS]

01:16:18   a long-term success that it would such a thing would have had instant credibility [TS]

01:16:21   at this point like if if the Xbox was spun off as a separate company just [TS]

01:16:27   completely cleanly separated people would still say come you know the next [TS]

01:16:32   generation of game consoles and you know eight years or something if there is a [TS]

01:16:36   next generation of game consoles they would be talking about them is like you [TS]

01:16:40   know people don't watch company worth listening to [TS]

01:16:44   yeah I'll go to go to the big announcement that they've scheduled for [TS]

01:16:47   now it's not totally like was there are so few sites like the personal computer [TS]

01:16:50   operating you know how many how many people have you had a company announced [TS]

01:16:54   said you know I'm gonna get into personal computer operating system you [TS]

01:16:58   gonna do what that's crazy and it seems like the same thing with the game so [TS]

01:17:00   long to make a game console it's a platform who wants to make a platform [TS]

01:17:04   like rim to its credit made another platform which was unheard of [TS]

01:17:09   practically mean they did not in the PC space but they said we're going to make [TS]

01:17:12   a new platform [TS]

01:17:13   and that that is so unprecedented so rare to happen and so difficult to do [TS]

01:17:17   that was down the tubes but they did it you know you talk about the bb10 yeah I [TS]

01:17:25   know their their messaging service like they it was a platform and it's so hard [TS]

01:17:32   to make those and to make them succeed even if even if only fleetingly yeah one [TS]

01:17:43   last any other names wanna toss out as a possible CEO executives my gut feeling [TS]

01:17:52   is it's gonna be somebody like someone from inside out Microsoft like you just [TS]

01:17:59   go down the corporate ladder microscopic four of the eight hundred vice president [TS]

01:18:02   and say the thing is there could be untapped talent inside Microsoft I don't [TS]

01:18:06   want to put that video I could I don't know maybe the best case scenario for [TS]

01:18:09   the for them to its like you need the right guy like you know that's the [TS]

01:18:14   that's the key decision you don't talk about the optics before like a house is [TS]

01:18:17   gonna look in the present who is one of the stock price for all that is going to [TS]

01:18:21   have to deal with whatever happens that you've just got to find the right person [TS]

01:18:26   at the right person is a Microsoft outside Microsoft fine whatever you do [TS]

01:18:29   get the right person and don't worry about what's going to happen the day you [TS]

01:18:33   announce it because that is who cares somebody who you know and and Microsoft [TS]

01:18:39   has to be Microsoft you know they can't be the never gonna win if they try to be [TS]

01:18:43   apple or anybody else or Google I would say this I would say in mobile I would [TS]

01:18:51   say maybe just maybe the last point about Ballmer Microsoft is that maybe [TS]

01:18:58   the iPhone is almost not irrelevant but is not the thing people should look at [TS]

01:19:02   as the main failing of Microsoft in mobile I would say the two companies [TS]

01:19:06   that show what a failure [TS]

01:19:08   microsoft has been in mobile are rim and Android separate from google but that [TS]

01:19:16   RIM's long-term success I mean the whole bread-and-butter [TS]

01:19:20   of ram through their heyday was in corporate market I mean it was a long [TS]

01:19:25   time before they became a consumer brand that RIM's days as a consumer success we [TS]

01:19:31   were pretty fleeting but they spent a long time as a big success and I T that [TS]

01:19:37   market should have been Microsoft us they'd the fact that they let him become [TS]

01:19:43   the defacto corporate mobile OS should have been seen as a failure very early [TS]

01:19:49   and I think that if they had if they had somehow if if Windows Mobile crummy as [TS]

01:19:54   it was taste was had been the success that RIM was all along I they'd be in I [TS]

01:20:02   don't think I think Microsoft would add something the parlay off a lot sooner [TS]

01:20:06   and maybe in much better position today even in the consumer market that was [TS]

01:20:10   classic alone disruption because Microsoft had you know had a smartphone [TS]

01:20:13   platform but Microsoft like when we feel the smartphone platform it's going to be [TS]

01:20:17   you know like windows on the phone is gonna be Windows CE Windows consumer [TS]

01:20:21   edition it's going you know the whole nine yards right where his Blackberry [TS]

01:20:24   unconstrained by that kind of attitude of like well it has to be for Windows [TS]

01:20:29   they gave you basically a picture that you could type on exactly that was [TS]

01:20:32   ramped up from Pepe Dougan type on making windows on a phone if you see [TS]

01:20:37   nothing in the fridge and smartphones killing one megabyte around you can run [TS]

01:20:41   the stylist right and if we don't care about the pager with a keyboard and [TS]

01:20:46   destruction that page with a keyboard or smarter and bigger and better and you [TS]

01:20:50   know the servers were attached to it and like it when it was just paid with the [TS]

01:20:53   keyboard the utility of being able to just tap out emails on your little page [TS]

01:20:56   with the keyboard thing with unbelievable and it was easy to use [TS]

01:21:00   you know you could function it was designed to use you could use it for [TS]

01:21:03   immediately and that that's what made blackberry and Microsoft was too tied up [TS]

01:21:08   in thinking we have to ship you an entire PC in your hand which they were [TS]

01:21:11   made to do yet as bbm is always sort of like a half way between email textin and [TS]

01:21:19   it was exactly you know the exact thing that the technology of the times was [TS]

01:21:25   optimal for the technology of the times [TS]

01:21:27   targeted the people who needed to be able to basically [TS]

01:21:30   from anywhere in the world and had the money to pay for you know paid paid [TS]

01:21:35   relatively large monthly fees and then I say Android because clearly you know it [TS]

01:21:42   it's Android not the iPhone that is now where Microsoft thought it was going to [TS]

01:21:47   be you know and who asked that OM's make device you know like what Windows was i [TS]

01:21:52   mean a lot of people pointed this out that in broad terms you know maybe the [TS]

01:21:55   percent you know certainly the percentages of market share are [TS]

01:21:58   different but in broad terms it's almost uncanny how much Android is to mobile [TS]

01:22:04   what Windows was to PCs in iOS and you know the iPhone are two mobile what the [TS]

01:22:10   Mac and Mac OS word PCs but like you can can you blame myself for not doing and [TS]

01:22:15   read it though because Microsoft must be looking at entering saying they're [TS]

01:22:18   they're doing what we do except for the part where you collect the money they [TS]

01:22:23   gave it away that everybody right and like and that works with Google's [TS]

01:22:27   business because their business was get people on the internet get them to [TS]

01:22:30   Google searches collect personal information is there an advertising [TS]

01:22:32   company to Microsoft in have their business model and so it's like how [TS]

01:22:37   could you compete with Android Android Android you had to get their first which [TS]

01:22:40   Microsoft was so they could on that but once and rented out the door it's like [TS]

01:22:43   so that we could be subsidized this with our like exchange licenses do we become [TS]

01:22:48   an advertising company because it was so hard for them to go to the OEM and say [TS]

01:22:52   you should make Windows Phones for a while they could use their licensing [TS]

01:22:56   terms for the Windows operating system for PCs as leverage but that starts to [TS]

01:22:59   fade in power and it's a tough competitor because they had skills and [TS]

01:23:04   take it away for free [TS]

01:23:06   may be the only chance they had and it is true and and and it's part of what [TS]

01:23:12   makes Google search in [TS]

01:23:15   difficult competitor in any marketing gets into because they you know give [TS]

01:23:20   everything away and subsidized through advertising that they're very very good [TS]

01:23:24   at monetizing you know and you know very small pennies you know pennies pennies [TS]

01:23:32   per view [TS]

01:23:33   multiplied by a very large number ends up being you know billions of dollars [TS]

01:23:38   but I think Microsoft opportunity was to have Windows Mobile be way better than [TS]

01:23:47   what Android was sooner because the first few years of Android after it [TS]

01:23:51   shipped it was really bad i mean it got its gotten a lot better [TS]

01:23:55   very quickly but like you know 2009 2010 Android was really really crummy system [TS]

01:24:02   and maybe there was an opportunity there where to look you you know your [TS]

01:24:06   competitors maybe make might be paying zero dollars to school for Android but [TS]

01:24:12   you can pay us $10 for a license for Windows Mobile and your phone is gonna [TS]

01:24:16   look a lot better in the cell phones and they did that for a while they had a lot [TS]

01:24:21   of people making Windows Mobile phones and sometimes they're also making [TS]

01:24:24   Android phones are making Windows Mobile phones instead of and they go to like [TS]

01:24:28   the big name people they're like oh you should make a Windows Mobile phone [TS]

01:24:30   because your your brand name and let those other random you know Asian [TS]

01:24:34   manufacturers making it was like the product offering it was maybe better [TS]

01:24:38   ahead of a Microsoft name and everything but it wasn't better better enough right [TS]

01:24:43   and I think it was you know and for example I mean to me this is the biggest [TS]

01:24:46   tell is that it's HTC is the perfect example 'cause at one point HTC was by [TS]

01:24:52   far the world's biggest windows phone maker forget what percentage of Windows [TS]

01:24:57   Phones for HTC but I think it was like a majority share like at least 50% of all [TS]

01:25:02   Windows phones were HTC may be a lot higher and you know clearly now it's I [TS]

01:25:09   don't think I guess HTC may be tried making one Windows 8 Phone or something [TS]

01:25:14   like that but almost everything HTC cells Android HTC is a cautionary tale [TS]

01:25:19   like this is what happens when you listen to the siren song of Microsoft [TS]

01:25:23   and try to get on board with their windows thing it distracts you and by [TS]

01:25:26   the time like now they're kind of like recovering and having the HTC One is an [TS]

01:25:29   amazing phone that should the few people who like should be doing better than it [TS]

01:25:32   is for you spent all that time off with Microsoft and while you were doing that [TS]

01:25:37   you know Samsung Cain became the name and face of good Android phones and [TS]

01:25:42   despite the fact that you now have a great phone the HTC One you know Samsung [TS]

01:25:47   people associate the name Galaxy Tab product like windows loans we would do [TS]

01:25:56   you know maybe we could be simpson yeah maybe I'll let me deal a sponsor reagan [TS]

01:26:01   then talk to you about video games you playing video games do a sponsor great [TS]

01:26:06   sponsor another repeat sponsored delighted and back our friends at igloo [TS]

01:26:11   igloo is an internet actually like don't just take my word for it [TS]

01:26:19   don't just take our word for it is a case study actual customer Children's [TS]

01:26:24   Hospital Foundation in Washington Dec [TS]

01:26:28   now this is an outfit they were using shared drives USB drives walking around [TS]

01:26:33   almost like the old sneaker net email and complicated SharePoint intranet to [TS]

01:26:40   manage everything in their organization where they set a goal to double their [TS]

01:26:44   fundraising and they needed a better way for the whole organization to [TS]

01:26:47   collaborate so they tried out a whole bunch of different software they chose a [TS]

01:26:51   glue and after they set up after the whole staff saw how easy it was using a [TS]

01:26:57   glue to collaborate they actually clap they have a good company wide meeting [TS]

01:27:01   where they said here's what we're going to use here's what it looks like here's [TS]

01:27:04   how it works and the staff broke out in applause Children's Hospital Foundation [TS]

01:27:10   has been using it for a year now still love it [TS]

01:27:14   deal with it and here's a new software update just came out the other day the [TS]

01:27:18   end of August they call it scone that's the name of the new update every [TS]

01:27:22   customer was instantly upgraded as soon as it came out because it's a web app [TS]

01:27:27   new stuff that they have a new html5 document previews video previews [TS]

01:27:32   improved analytics and and a whole bunch more when they come up with a software [TS]

01:27:37   update everybody's existing igloo internet already automatically gets [TS]

01:27:41   upgraded great service and is amazing it's free to use with up to 10 people so [TS]

01:27:49   if you're a small team it's free for your team news if you're a big team you [TS]

01:27:54   can try it out of a group of you tried out with up to 10 of you just to see if [TS]

01:27:58   you like it and when you're a group grows when you need to add people it's [TS]

01:28:01   only $12 a person a month [TS]

01:28:03   go to a glue software dot com slash the talk show to start building your igloo [TS]

01:28:12   igloo software dot com slash the talk show and start building your if I don't [TS]

01:28:18   forget to go to their home page enable bunch of sandwich videos made by the [TS]

01:28:23   aforementioned a timely support and they're hilarious cycle sitcom [TS]

01:28:32   team did everything themselves camera makes you think that maybe semi-retired [TS]

01:28:44   at this point there is a body doubles he's actually officiating the [TS]

01:28:52   aforementioned [TS]

01:28:54   doing all these things at once he makes video starring videos he officiates [TS]

01:28:58   wedding to a taxi to the airport is your driver on the airplane quite alright [TS]

01:29:10   video games so I III wrote a big piece today based on that was funny I didn't [TS]

01:29:16   plan on it somebody's on Twitter said the reason that I stirred up so much by [TS]

01:29:19   saying that [TS]

01:29:20   ten Doeschate make I get to line linked list entry it said they should have [TS]

01:29:24   given him a guileless games when they announced the new to des last week and I [TS]

01:29:30   got so I got great feedback from it I don't mean it in terms of dummies [TS]

01:29:34   shouldn't send me feedback it was great I mean I can't believe how much [TS]

01:29:37   interesting stuff came out of it to send peace they wrote but I had a lot more to [TS]

01:29:42   say about it today repeated here all assume everybody is listened is as read [TS]

01:29:46   it but but the gist of it is I stand by I think I think Nintendo is screwed at [TS]

01:29:51   least inspector may be especially in here and I think that they should [TS]

01:29:55   seriously consider me games even if that [TS]

01:29:55   seriously consider me games even if that [TS]

01:30:00   means that the company is going to shrink in in uncomfortable ways think [TS]

01:30:05   you probably got a lot of crap about it there's the obvious reason is that like [TS]

01:30:09   normally I mean you said yourself you're not a gamer and did you read about game [TS]

01:30:14   technology occasionally but most your be just like you know personal computers [TS]

01:30:17   mobile phone stuff like that so the people who are you know inside that [TS]

01:30:23   circle gonna say this guy doesn't have doesn't know the history doesn't have [TS]

01:30:26   the depth of background personal experience to comment [TS]

01:30:30   knowingly on this topic see a crap from those described exactly and the flip [TS]

01:30:34   side of that is that when you are inside that circle it's very easy to you know [TS]

01:30:41   have preconceived notions about one in 10 that was and how they have to behave [TS]

01:30:45   and sometimes it's the people who are outside that is assuming that you know [TS]

01:30:49   that there are no smart people they can give you a view of the you're not [TS]

01:30:53   willing to accept because it goes against you know central tenets of your [TS]

01:30:56   belief system from being a gamer for the past 20 years or whatever so it's always [TS]

01:31:00   important than 20 outside guy says something crazy maybe he's wrong but it [TS]

01:31:04   doesn't have the background know about it but the other hand maybe you can't [TS]

01:31:07   conceive of that possibility because because it just it runs counter to [TS]

01:31:12   everything you've felt about Nintendo for the past you know thirty years of [TS]

01:31:16   your life or whatever I agree with you there and I you know and I'll just say [TS]

01:31:21   this if I end up being proven wrong and have to eat my hat on this 1 I'll be [TS]

01:31:26   happy like let's say ten years from now [TS]

01:31:29   Nintendo still has never made a game for anything but their own systems and they [TS]

01:31:32   have a successful handheld platform minutes till a successful plugging their [TS]

01:31:37   TV platform the great news I would be doubt be delighted and I'm sure that [TS]

01:31:41   would be good news for the gaming industry and for people who like to play [TS]

01:31:44   games interest fans of longtime fans of Nintendo's franchises great I'm I will [TS]

01:31:50   be happy to be proven wrong I just don't think so and to me you know the [TS]

01:31:56   comparison and its uncomfortable but I do think that there in a similar [TS]

01:31:59   situation to her room was 56 years ago [TS]

01:32:05   insofar as that they're unable to compete as computer makers with [TS]

01:32:12   you know I S and and to a lesser degree you know Android kernel there's a kernel [TS]

01:32:20   of something in there that you're on the right track about but in that duality [TS]

01:32:25   and again I'm being very cognizant to think you know try to think outside the [TS]

01:32:28   box not accept you know the the accepted narrative of the game industry because I [TS]

01:32:33   consider myself and someone who is deeply entrenched in that world but I i [TS]

01:32:38   think you are missing a lot of things about Nintendo and that's why you're [TS]

01:32:41   getting a lot of crap because because you're you're like you're off your beard [TS]

01:32:44   off in the wrong direction that the kernel the kernel of truth that you have [TS]

01:32:47   here is what you're getting out there like that you see you see competitors [TS]

01:32:51   taking the attention and time and money that used to be nintendo's and you're [TS]

01:32:58   thinking intended doesn't have what it takes to match up with those competitors [TS]

01:33:03   right like that you see like that people applying I was games people doing this [TS]

01:33:07   what can intend oh you know can attend to compete with that on that on those [TS]

01:33:14   terms and it's like well no they can't have a blackberry curve that could make [TS]

01:33:17   iPhone caliber hardware and software because that's what was going to take to [TS]

01:33:20   stay on the phone businesses like alright here's the iPhone Blackberry and [TS]

01:33:25   they just bring up these phones that were not not iPhone caliber the hardware [TS]

01:33:29   or the software I can sticking with the hardware keyboard is like no blackberry [TS]

01:33:33   that's not the bar the minimum entry prices like Windows Phone right Windows [TS]

01:33:38   Phone seven and eight like that is a valid entry in the field and read it [TS]

01:33:42   here but you are putting out is not you're not competing and it's like well [TS]

01:33:46   you know blackberry you know RIM BlackBerry the company couldn't do that [TS]

01:33:50   they you know they didn't they made it in have time to people they were too [TS]

01:33:55   late whenever they just just couldn't get it together and you know that and so [TS]

01:33:58   that's what you're saying about about intend to but you suggested remedies are [TS]

01:34:01   not good not good at all because you know when you get right as the Nintendo [TS]

01:34:07   has problems right thing we all agree that Nintendo is in a terrible spot but [TS]

01:34:14   they're not doing well like they're not certainly coming down off the high of [TS]

01:34:17   the week [TS]

01:34:17   as well as well that so I think those are those into two parts that underneath [TS]

01:34:22   it all that you kind of getting right you can recognize drinking a technology [TS]

01:34:25   with the rest of the details I think you're off well and when they didn't [TS]

01:34:29   even get into in this is where I maybe it's even maybe I should have cuz I [TS]

01:34:32   think maybe it's even harder problem is I think going forward to remain [TS]

01:34:36   competitive both handheld and on console I feel like the ever growing complexity [TS]

01:34:45   of things there that the competitors there against are such that they need a [TS]

01:34:53   better operating system and like developer system and that you know that [TS]

01:35:01   there you know I think by all reports that they they really have like a [TS]

01:35:04   criminal ones like they can't they still don't think that they can do like [TS]

01:35:07   patches two games once they've been release is really get into trouble I am [TS]

01:35:13   I wrong [TS]

01:35:14   downloadable content that here's what I think contenders problems I feel like I [TS]

01:35:18   said there is there is there is a core issue here right now here's here's how I [TS]

01:35:22   would define tennis problems this the first question yet asked about his [TS]

01:35:26   problems is there a future for game only or sort of game mostly hardware devices [TS]

01:35:32   that something something that you buy that mostly plays games maybe to stream [TS]

01:35:36   video of things whatever is there a market for you know currently or in the [TS]

01:35:42   future so what's your answer my answer is yes but it's shrinking so fast that [TS]

01:35:53   it doesn't remain that market doesn't remain big enough to sustain Nintendo so [TS]

01:35:58   the I think the question this is like I think it's still an open question and I [TS]

01:36:02   think the upcoming TV console generation Xbox and PlayStation 4 will give us a [TS]

01:36:08   really important data point if they sell and radically lower numbers than than [TS]

01:36:13   expected like than the previous generation of consoles did them know [TS]

01:36:17   that the market for you know sort of game machines things that pretty much [TS]

01:36:21   mostly do games despite the fact that both the Xbox and PlayStation 4 also you [TS]

01:36:25   know to Netflix and all these other things [TS]

01:36:27   you know if they don't sell in high numbers then we'll know that what you [TS]

01:36:31   just said it's like that now is that time that is shrinking and that it's [TS]

01:36:34   only a matter of time before it goes away if on the other hand they sell in [TS]

01:36:39   the expected numbers and they sell huge numbers on the alright well apparently [TS]

01:36:43   there is still a market for gaming devices we don't know how long the [TS]

01:36:47   market's going around but nobody knows who I am but like it hasn't gone away [TS]

01:36:49   let me to revise and say for one that you plug into your TV in your home [TS]

01:36:55   entertainment system [TS]

01:36:56   non portables non mobile and let me say I don't know and I'll let me plead [TS]

01:37:02   ignorance and say that I'm so far out of it that I really don't know but maybe [TS]

01:37:06   because I can imagine that as you know as computing power grows you can do more [TS]

01:37:11   and more amazing stuff and that one that's primarily centered on games is [TS]

01:37:15   bull remain unbeatable and that people have historically consumers have [TS]

01:37:20   historically been willing to plug numerous things into their TV there's a [TS]

01:37:24   limit and people get annoyed when you reach a certain limit but people love [TS]

01:37:28   you know for decades now have had like a cable box and a DVD player and the game [TS]

01:37:34   machine you know and/or you know some kind of a streaming box like an Apple TV [TS]

01:37:40   iraqi or something like that so there's a history of that and TVs are made for [TS]

01:37:43   it with multiple HDMI ports and it's not that painful to have one more box and so [TS]

01:37:49   I say maybe if not probably plugged into the TV but for Mobile or handheld [TS]

01:37:55   devices I think the answer is No [TS]

01:37:58   well I think the question is like I don't think you can separate those too [TS]

01:38:03   busy you saying that there is a market that your TV and there isn't fair and [TS]

01:38:07   help if what you say about hand-held this true there's no reason that that [TS]

01:38:12   same technology couldn't come and displace the television attached to you [TS]

01:38:17   don't feel like we're already at the point where the high-end iPad has like [TS]

01:38:20   you know previous generation game console caliber power close to it anyway [TS]

01:38:24   right because the iPad as small as it is physically as more pixels than your TV [TS]

01:38:28   you know but even just the you know the GPU itself as if you had a run 1080p [TS]

01:38:32   like if if what you say is true that the the market for handheld gaming hardware [TS]

01:38:36   doesn't exist [TS]

01:38:37   then I think the power we already have in our phones like it's only a short [TS]

01:38:42   distance to say that why can't something similarly small portable also be your [TS]

01:38:46   television gaming device or in addition to your television game device like I [TS]

01:38:52   don't know because separate them because it's like the only difference between [TS]

01:38:55   hand-held and attach your TV is one of like time it's like the technology that [TS]

01:38:59   used to be required [TS]

01:39:01   big-box hatcher television with the fan now can fit in your phone and that just [TS]

01:39:04   that would continue apace right that's why I think the key question is is there [TS]

01:39:09   a market for any kind of game only a game mostly demise and I think for now [TS]

01:39:14   for this generation I predicted the Xmas wanna ps4 will sell any reasonable [TS]

01:39:19   numbers at the time of the game only again Wilson device is not over and the [TS]

01:39:23   reason I think this is a very extremely relevant question at endo is because I [TS]

01:39:26   don't think Nintendo has what it takes to feel the device that is not a game [TS]

01:39:29   only a game mostly device they are can't make it personal computing platform they [TS]

01:39:34   can't make it a platform they're not going to be with Android they're not [TS]

01:39:37   going to compete with with iOS or even Windows Mobile I don't think the company [TS]

01:39:41   has it in them to sell a device that's a general-purpose office again said who [TS]

01:39:45   makes a software platform how often does that even happened that you make a [TS]

01:39:49   successful platform that is not when intend to resign to do they can't [TS]

01:39:52   compete in that market if that's where the market is going that is more or less [TS]

01:39:56   the end of the line for Nintendo as we know it as a company and they could go [TS]

01:39:59   on to become just a software company do all the things you talked about it [TS]

01:40:02   whatever but that is the line I would draw and I don't think that right now is [TS]

01:40:06   that line I don't think that you can say that [TS]

01:40:09   know that time is over there is no more market for gaming devices and tend to [TS]

01:40:13   your only choice is to become a different kind of company and that's [TS]

01:40:15   that's where I part ways with your suggested solution of them trying out I [TS]

01:40:19   was game I see I see it mostly I don't see that you might be right about the [TS]

01:40:25   fact that the if anything is going to end the day the demand for console is [TS]

01:40:33   canceled the right word for the ones you plug in ya during his game game only [TS]

01:40:39   artwork that you play by play games and stream video it is not [TS]

01:40:43   apps the problem I see for them is more specific I see it more clearly and it is [TS]

01:40:51   a lot of ways and it was hard for me to write the article because I didn't want [TS]

01:40:54   to say I have a gut feeling I I tried to justify it is logically as I could and I [TS]

01:40:58   stand behind it but to me I see it and I certainly feel it more viscerally with [TS]

01:41:04   the the handhelds with the 3ds and purses iPhones and Android phones and [TS]

01:41:12   number one I don't think they could even make an iPod Touch caliber device and if [TS]

01:41:19   they did I don't think that they could make it a cheap enough price and they're [TS]

01:41:24   competing and this is the part where they're almost screwed it's not even [TS]

01:41:26   fair which is that they're competing against the iPhone and galaxies and [TS]

01:41:33   other high-end Android phones which are subsidized in so many markets around the [TS]

01:41:38   world and you know complaining about how subsidized phone you still end up paying [TS]

01:41:43   as much or more over the longer the fact is most people think and I found a brand [TS]

01:41:48   new iPhone 5 costs $199 and you know it doesn't actually but how can they [TS]

01:41:53   compete with that when it's in fact you know as $700 gadget yes I think you're [TS]

01:41:59   off on this comparison as well because I mean it gets back to the room thing we [TS]

01:42:04   are saying they like rim was the you know sticking with the hardware keyboard [TS]

01:42:08   and making the hardware and they just couldn't compete which was true in the [TS]

01:42:11   smartphone face space but that the key difference between you know what you're [TS]

01:42:16   describing and what happens when everything is that right now I just [TS]

01:42:20   can't make an iPhone caliber piece of hardware when rimless you know circling [TS]

01:42:29   the drain the devices they were putting out gave inferior experiences if you [TS]

01:42:34   bought an iPhone and you but whatever the bike thing rumors floating as their [TS]

01:42:37   top of the line touch type thing like the iPhone was better to use it was [TS]

01:42:41   nicer you had access to better apps there are more fun to use it was easier [TS]

01:42:45   everything about it was better if you give a kid and iPod touch and a [TS]

01:42:52   significantly cheaper Nintendo 3ds their intended to des delivered [TS]

01:42:55   a far superior gaming experience than the iPod Touch like I kinda disagree [TS]

01:43:02   with that totally superior gaming experience for all but the all but the [TS]

01:43:06   very very most casual games Angry Birds cut the rope stuff like that it is the [TS]

01:43:12   intent handled gives the is more valuable that's why the games can [TS]

01:43:16   command a higher price because they're more valuable to people who really [TS]

01:43:19   really love games love Nintendo handheld if you disagree you like games you would [TS]

01:43:25   like to know help better than an iPod Touch and in the same way the people who [TS]

01:43:28   are gaga for smartphones and love smartphones love the iPhone they did not [TS]

01:43:32   know that RIM became start location and I think you're judging criteria like [TS]

01:43:37   rena screens it it's meaningless on Nintendo's handheld [TS]

01:43:42   disagree with you there I guess they're not displaying text and it's not it's [TS]

01:43:51   definitely not better at all things and i co-wrote there's certainly some games [TS]

01:43:55   where you wanna D patton buttons no doubt about it and those are you know [TS]

01:43:58   traditionally nintendo's bread-and-butter games because they've [TS]

01:44:01   built the game specifically for the hardware and again I'm not advising the [TS]

01:44:06   day just take the existing games and put a virtual keypad on iOS and call it a [TS]

01:44:11   day I think you know if they're going to do it they've gotta make games that are [TS]

01:44:14   meant to be run I was but the same the weather was a few things though their [TS]

01:44:19   BlackBerry was and maybe even today is still better at Iowa State are very few [TS]

01:44:23   but its specific to messaging like going through email and I remember one time [TS]

01:44:27   years ago i dont know is probably back in 2008 and I think it was one of the [TS]

01:44:32   reasons that it it it was sort of grist for MyWi room is screwed post I remember [TS]

01:44:38   getting picked up at the airport and San Francisco with my friend Jason Hoffman [TS]

01:44:46   who used to work he's still there [TS]

01:44:48   join and it was a bike or incidents like we were both I think so maybe [TS]

01:44:54   misremembered the details but I was in San Francisco me probably for an Apple [TS]

01:44:57   event [TS]

01:44:58   and he was arriving from somewhere and a mutual friend picked us both up and I [TS]

01:45:02   was in a car with him and he had heard he was one of the guys with the time had [TS]

01:45:06   a Blackberry and I was a little surprised back from us Thanks [TS]

01:45:11   and he used the BlackBerry just freemen and I he gave me and it in the car like [TS]

01:45:16   a big demo of you here's why he was so efficient it was so amazingly quick to [TS]

01:45:21   go message the message the message and pick up a return that he could get [TS]

01:45:24   through here had like a long flight and it was in the area when I was a lot [TS]

01:45:29   harder time maybe they weren't even over wifi flights at the time but he didn't [TS]

01:45:33   have wifi so we had like a whole days worth of email and went through them [TS]

01:45:37   boom boom boom boom boom in a way that you would be a lot slower and less [TS]

01:45:42   efficient and as I said is pretty interesting and in his career he gives [TS]

01:45:45   his conclusions yet rooms toilets group that I bet they're out of business two [TS]

01:45:49   years that he used the thing and enjoyed it but completely recognize why they [TS]

01:45:55   were totally screw all the hardware software keyboard difference i think is [TS]

01:45:58   another one another instructive on because I think they know they seem [TS]

01:46:01   somewhat like a Nintendo ya know you got hardware controls now but that's the [TS]

01:46:04   passcode come two touchdowns but there it's not a big thing with the comparison [TS]

01:46:08   with blackberry though is that they had the hardware for like going up and down [TS]

01:46:12   in your messages which is way better than any way to get from message the [TS]

01:46:15   message in Iowa still well I was like more of the harbour keeper because that [TS]

01:46:19   was the thing that people like I can type in this offer keyboard but it's [TS]

01:46:22   it's so different then touch controls for gaming vs like buttons and deep ads [TS]

01:46:27   and stuff because like with the heart of a software keyboard it was the same [TS]

01:46:32   number buttons and they were advantages to the software keyboard the harbor and [TS]

01:46:35   couldn't match like you could reconfigure this offer keyboard you can [TS]

01:46:37   do predictive hit areas but you couldn't do with the hardware keyboard buttons [TS]

01:46:41   can get bigger biznews knows that the next likely character is probably not [TS]

01:46:44   are right it does offer keyboard has advantages that so it was like a [TS]

01:46:47   superset was like everyone our bookkeeper can do it all the same [TS]

01:46:50   buttons and also we can do things that you can do and he gets out of your way [TS]

01:46:54   when when you don't touch versus hardware buttons on on gaming devices [TS]

01:46:58   such only has an advantage in a narrow band of games like Angry Birds or cut [TS]

01:47:03   the rope or any kind of touch type games but it has massive sort of exclusion [TS]

01:47:07   exclusionary disadvantages and different kind of games like you can't make a [TS]

01:47:12   whole class of very popular games that people like to play if your fingers on [TS]

01:47:16   the screen right true and so it's like it's hot it's not like this is exactly [TS]

01:47:22   the killing you got shoulder buttons you got face fines go deep and it's just [TS]

01:47:25   that now they're all software nevermind that that would be terrible to use as [TS]

01:47:28   well as you know from trying to keep things it's not a superset it is really [TS]

01:47:34   really narrowly defined and it enters you into a certain area game in the [TS]

01:47:38   question is like maybe that is the old way on know that's the old way when [TS]

01:47:42   people stop one play games that require those controls so you're watching you [TS]

01:47:45   watching who who's who's gonna buy these things so they selling 3ds is are they [TS]

01:47:49   selling are they going to sell two DS's are they selling game only Harbor people [TS]

01:47:52   buying consoles that's how you'll know when it's a problem that's why I think [TS]

01:47:57   it's already a problem that the numbers that Lucas Matthysse cited his response [TS]

01:48:01   to me that had the 3ds is selling ok it was a hundred and thirty months or weeks [TS]

01:48:07   in I guess week's end you know which is a decent measure you know like two and a [TS]

01:48:12   half years that the last generation Das was at 43 million in the 3ds is only at [TS]

01:48:18   thirty-three million to its 23 percent down generation to generation and it [TS]

01:48:22   just happens to coincide with the the rise of modern smartphones I think [TS]

01:48:29   that's not I think that's the cause I don't think it's anything specific to [TS]

01:48:32   the 3ds I think it's the fact that it's it's an era of the smartphone over it [TS]

01:48:37   gets back to the idea of mike is the game all the hardware is there something [TS]

01:48:41   that still gonna do it to beat you still just wanna buy it and i also know I know [TS]

01:48:45   you know we've owned a bunch of 50 Nintendo hardware lot of Nintendo [TS]

01:48:49   hardware over the years never been a serious gamer although I was younger I [TS]

01:48:53   played a lot more but [TS]

01:48:54   you know and I know that Nintendo has a cultural explicit cultural policy of [TS]

01:49:00   embracing older lesser cheaper technology you know and the Gameboy [TS]

01:49:08   famously didn't have a color screen until years after other competing ones [TS]

01:49:13   did out sold them all and that you know the Wii famously was was you know like I [TS]

01:49:19   wrote to David standard death i mean you know it's almost ridiculous that it [TS]

01:49:23   wasn't I death and you know outsold the unit share basis PlayStation and Xbox [TS]

01:49:27   but I think the big difference that they're facing again smartphones [TS]

01:49:32   technically is that with the smartphones it's about you're asking me to carry a [TS]

01:49:38   second device that their their policy of having lesser technology works for them [TS]

01:49:44   when it was will you buy our thing that's cheaper and more fun even though [TS]

01:49:49   its last technically advanced or the other guys thing which is more [TS]

01:49:54   technically advanced but but not it maybe not as fun I think that's going to [TS]

01:49:58   protect them and handled though because and handheld gaming like kids don't have [TS]

01:50:03   smartphones like him in that I guess at a certain age they do maybe middle [TS]

01:50:06   school high school or whatever but younger kids still play games and that's [TS]

01:50:12   that's a market that may be protected from smartphone infiltration for a while [TS]

01:50:15   anyway because people are going to give their kids but they will give them a [TS]

01:50:19   Nintendo 3ds for Christmas yeah but I you know and and this is a lot of it is [TS]

01:50:22   very very small sample size non-scientific polling based on fact [TS]

01:50:26   that I have a nine year old son but he has a sample size of one has both the [TS]

01:50:32   3ds and [TS]

01:50:34   I France and he does play the 3ds but he plays the iPhone more and if it's like [TS]

01:50:42   hey we're going out to dinner you can take something he takes in this is not [TS]

01:50:45   you know not by me pushing him I'm certainly no in fact I almost wish he [TS]

01:50:50   played the 3ds morals feeling you know maybe we haven't got our money's worth [TS]

01:50:54   out of it and he plays it but I just seems to me like it when push comes to [TS]

01:50:58   shove help take the iPhone and it's hard I try to ask him about it and you know [TS]

01:51:04   it's only nine so it's hard to sort of it's hard for him to explain his choices [TS]

01:51:09   but definitely part of it is that when you take your iPhone with you you take [TS]

01:51:14   all your games with you and maybe none of the games are as fun as the best game [TS]

01:51:17   for the 3ds but you've got them all and you can never lose cartridge he's only [TS]

01:51:23   lost one 3ds cartridge which i think is pretty good for a night but he's never [TS]

01:51:28   lost an iOS game so this is like he wants to take all of his 3ds games with [TS]

01:51:33   him he's got to take a little like a briefcase [TS]

01:51:36   like Nintendo's the tenders problems even if you assume that they're still [TS]

01:51:40   market for gaming devices even if you get that is given because I think that [TS]

01:51:42   is like that's like they're the red line and Nintendo's future and and probably [TS]

01:51:47   the future of the Xbox and PlayStation as well as you know gaming hardware [TS]

01:51:50   still a viable business and I think currently it still is [TS]

01:51:53   don't know about the future right even if you allow for that you have to say [TS]

01:51:58   okay intend to has other problems and a lot of those have to do with the things [TS]

01:52:02   that I was does better than intended ease of purchase and installation and [TS]

01:52:06   the whole ownership experience you just went through it [TS]

01:52:08   cartridges no downloads yes nintendo's digital commerce stuff is way behind [TS]

01:52:12   even like steam on the BC little on the App Store it's so much easier to deal [TS]

01:52:18   with games in the App Store than any of any of really any of the platforms [TS]

01:52:22   Microsoft Sony or Nintendo so Apple's Way ahead there and you know that you're [TS]

01:52:26   seeing that that factor when you know making choices what do I so wanna be [TS]

01:52:29   with you [TS]

01:52:30   Nintendo is super dumb in this area like they they were tied their games their [TS]

01:52:34   hardware so you can do a digital download but those are tied to a [TS]

01:52:37   particularly hard when you get what you got to this crazy transfer process that [TS]

01:52:41   makes Rd around else happy in [TS]

01:52:43   screw up and all these terrible things right sony has actually some interesting [TS]

01:52:47   ideas about this for the PlayStation 4 where they say all the right things they [TS]

01:52:51   were still the right things right but like you're gonna have downloadable [TS]

01:52:54   games will be downloaded by Disqus you don't want and they also have you know [TS]

01:52:58   the interesting technology touting like so you gonna download this gigantic game [TS]

01:53:01   for PlayStation you can start playing it even before the whole game is downloaded [TS]

01:53:05   will tell them samples will immediately start screaming like the first level so [TS]

01:53:08   you can start playing melee that's something that he too had of Apple if [TS]

01:53:11   turns out to work right because Apple you want some you know multi-gigabit [TS]

01:53:14   game on your iOS device to get away from home game download before you can play [TS]

01:53:17   it so Sony is at least saying the right things marks off had some really [TS]

01:53:21   interesting ideas about like lending games and resale like you could lend the [TS]

01:53:25   game to any person your family for free by up to 10 people or whatever without [TS]

01:53:30   having them to rebuy it would transfer you know people freaked out about that [TS]

01:53:34   for DRM reasons they did some of the stupid things when they backed out a lot [TS]

01:53:37   of decisions but what's the joke that it should be called the Microsoft the new [TS]

01:53:40   platform Microsoft 180 X Box 186 handle these grand plans were actually really [TS]

01:53:46   often and half of them were terrible and they just said I'll never mind what do [TS]

01:53:49   we do with the 360 right and you could just take a disk back and tell me [TS]

01:53:53   exactly but like the Nintendo is way behind there and that i think is a much [TS]

01:53:57   more pressing problem that the things you've listened that they like even if [TS]

01:54:01   you say gaming thing is going to be future you gotta get your act together [TS]

01:54:03   it's got to be easy to buy and deal with games that is as it is in the App Store [TS]

01:54:06   and it's not and that's really going to hurt them and online gaming and [TS]

01:54:09   collaboration I don't know that Apple is ahead here microsoft certainly is in the [TS]

01:54:13   lead with Xbox Live are you all your friends and go online to play with them [TS]

01:54:16   and Sony Nintendo both not been doing well and it's always been trying to be [TS]

01:54:20   like family friendly and stuff but like the limiting access downlines you don't [TS]

01:54:24   have people like cursing at you and everything but that that's an area where [TS]

01:54:29   they're all kinda like fumbling and are not quite up to the standards you want [TS]

01:54:32   them to be the final thing is market access like it's it's easier to get a [TS]

01:54:37   game in the App Store than it is to get a game on at endo Sony or Microsoft [TS]

01:54:40   platforms [TS]

01:54:41   those are the biggest problems facing antenna right now aside from the the [TS]

01:54:46   medical question of whether game only con game only products [TS]

01:54:49   valid is all that stuff that Iowa's does better and that makes it so that people [TS]

01:54:53   say I'm gonna have me my buddy you're gonna make an iOS game we're gonna like [TS]

01:54:56   why aren't you making demagogue that's paying about our own however do that you [TS]

01:55:00   know it's not easy to buy things there and I just tell people to go on their [TS]

01:55:03   phones and download this app like those are all big problems that the Nintendo [TS]

01:55:07   has but all the things that you listed about the hardware everything I think [TS]

01:55:12   you're missing the forest for the trees because like I mean I like you listed [TS]

01:55:16   resistive touchscreens a problem like I said they're like I feel like a relic [TS]

01:55:20   from museum like their reasons for the resistive touchscreens not not that [TS]

01:55:26   they're never gonna happen forever but the first reason is like precision [TS]

01:55:31   because fingers get in the way more than than a stylist does and Nintendo had [TS]

01:55:37   specific games in mind that I want you to be able to use a stylus with the [TS]

01:55:40   union the competition like to draw the path for links boomerang on the Delta [TS]

01:55:43   games or whatever so you're gonna have a styles and if you have a stylist you [TS]

01:55:46   know pressure-sensitive is the only option they had that time and also once [TS]

01:55:51   you give someone a stylist they're gonna jam that thing to the screen like crazy [TS]

01:55:54   and you cannot have someone jabbing a pointy thing into a glass screen just [TS]

01:55:57   cracked or at the very least it'll make it big enough to scare her off and be [TS]

01:56:01   unpleasant and it will be as nice you gotta have resisted for that and for the [TS]

01:56:06   resolution it's not a Retina screen but like the specs of handhelds nintendo's [TS]

01:56:11   handled anyway are pretty easily explained by the focus is gaming only [TS]

01:56:15   machine so you don't have to show texture you know beautiful things like [TS]

01:56:18   rena graphics order and the price is super high res diminishing returns in [TS]

01:56:22   terms of fun factor like over certain rather you do not need 300 dpi for 3d [TS]

01:56:26   graphics game you won't even notice that I'll just be it's just it's completely [TS]

01:56:30   sunk you know Harbor costs that you're just paying bills takes us out and son [TS]

01:56:34   attended shows the balance that led to hit like a low price point and still [TS]

01:56:39   make a profit on this thing and I was trying to look up before the show like [TS]

01:56:42   what the power specs are for like what is more powerful in terms of three [TS]

01:56:45   processing power 3ds or you know what I paid for and all I can find more specs [TS]

01:56:51   like the you know the previous generation of iPod harbor and yeah the [TS]

01:56:55   iPad GPUs away are still reagan's they're filling in for a Retina screen [TS]

01:56:58   and the tender ones don't have to have that kind of power but the 3d power in [TS]

01:57:02   those things it's not an impressive and I'm pretty sure that using 65 nanometer [TS]

01:57:05   chips and that which is insane because Apple's like using 32 and soon-to-be 28 [TS]

01:57:09   thank you know state of the art of like trying to write so if you're right it is [TS]

01:57:13   older technology but that their focus so much on like durability price you know [TS]

01:57:19   accessibility to young people as a as a as a products for the handhelds very [TS]

01:57:24   specifically that I can justify everyone from the decisions they made and I think [TS]

01:57:28   I putting them on ATP that the TDS is not doomed in the market like it's not [TS]

01:57:34   it's not crazy to think that when Pokemon XY come out that bunch of [TS]

01:57:37   parents are gonna buy their kids this thing is the cheapest way to get this [TS]

01:57:40   game and I remember you on the site also think it was preparing like it's only [TS]

01:57:45   $40 cheaper yeah I didn't seem like a lot [TS]

01:57:49   well what if I told you that you had taken you know the the iPhone 5 and [TS]

01:57:55   shave $40 off the price but you can't change me the specs has done the same [TS]

01:57:58   manner and has to be just as fast I just need $4 off the price are you can't get [TS]

01:58:02   into the camera can't do anything USA for details on the price is not easy to [TS]

01:58:05   bring $40 I don't like it's not like this is like the Nintendo 3ds is like [TS]

01:58:09   the iPhone for us like the previous generation is cheaper it runs all 3ds [TS]

01:58:13   games granted on 3d but like it runs them that doesn't have any sort of [TS]

01:58:17   disadvantages in terms of speed or anything [TS]

01:58:20   40 bucks out of this thing and gratitude that $40 is a lot more when the its 25% [TS]

01:58:28   as opposed to it probably might be easier to shave $40 off and iPhone 5 [TS]

01:58:34   because it's already seven hundred dollars and the profit as opposed to [TS]

01:58:41   shaving 25% right putting in percentage terms makes it more impressive than in [TS]

01:58:46   dollar terms but I don't like you're impressed by it and these are ATP the [TS]

01:58:54   TDS is not the move of you know it's not a power moves out some of the top of [TS]

01:59:00   their game saying we rule the handheld market now making its you know they want [TS]

01:59:04   to sell more gotta get the price lower [TS]

01:59:07   how how can we pull cost out of Apple still making a good day [TS]

01:59:10   aiming device like it's it's a desperation move but it's also not a [TS]

01:59:15   like supremely confident we rule the market in fact we're gonna make you more [TS]

01:59:18   money because the Martins I have to be lower [TS]

01:59:20   gonna make it less money on it they're going to try to make it happen volume by [TS]

01:59:23   lowering the price and sell more of them and and maybe they will but you know I [TS]

01:59:28   don't think it's a terrible product I think there's a chance that it will sell [TS]

01:59:32   pretty well if it doesn't it's probably not because the progress as bad but it's [TS]

01:59:38   probably because of you know all the other than intended doesn't do as well [TS]

01:59:42   as as I was does it mean if you look at a powerful handheld PlayStation Vita [TS]

01:59:48   which is way more powerful than 3ds and has lots of interesting features and yet [TS]

01:59:51   he was crushed by Nintendo in the market because though has more interesting [TS]

01:59:56   things and better and more fun games right I think you know hand-held [TS]

01:59:59   dedicated gaming device forces handheld gaming dedicated gaming device [TS]

02:00:03   nintendo's in good shape and that their strategy continues to work and they [TS]

02:00:07   don't need leading tech I think the problem is again smartphones its you're [TS]

02:00:12   asking me to carry a second device in the same thing it faces camera makers [TS]

02:00:16   right and I you know I point this out of my ass but I can only assume [TS]

02:00:22   camera sales are slowing in the face of people having smartphones they're good [TS]

02:00:27   enough you're putting it all back to is there is there a place for gaming only [TS]

02:00:31   piece of hardware and right and you know music players obviously iPod sales are [TS]

02:00:35   way down even including the iPod Touch and iPod sales which really prompts [TS]

02:00:40   those numbers up and I really wish almost maybe if there's one thing I wish [TS]

02:00:44   Apple would do differently in its financial reports it would be to report [TS]

02:00:47   the iPod Touch separately from the other iPods but those are way down every other [TS]

02:00:55   second device is way down i mean you know I think famously I think it's [TS]

02:01:00   almost been the biggest distraction in trying to talk about these things over [TS]

02:01:04   the last seven years is that we call them smart phones when they're really [TS]

02:01:09   not phones their little computers that can be phones the traditional phone [TS]

02:01:14   market is estimated profit wise maybe not unit share wise [TS]

02:01:19   even know smartphones in a lot of ways aren't even great phone's IMEI the verge [TS]

02:01:23   had a thing this week with the new damn phone from Nokia that gets actually [TS]

02:01:29   looks pretty cool as a dump on and it gets like a ridiculous it was like [TS]

02:01:34   thirty eight hours of battery life I forget what it was ridiculous it was [TS]

02:01:40   like a week of battery life more I don't know it was charged my phone once a week [TS]

02:01:46   yeah it was just stupid which is better at to have a phone that you don't have [TS]

02:01:51   to worry about charging everyday is way better just in terms of late hey if [TS]

02:01:54   somebody needs me I'm available and my phones not great but it's that asking [TS]

02:02:00   people to carry a second device you know what we call smartphones are hurting all [TS]

02:02:05   of them and the thing that really hurts something like the DSP platform or [TS]

02:02:10   whatever the next generation is going to be called is that unlike say the camera [TS]

02:02:16   maker like Nikon or Canon which can still profitably make more continue [TS]

02:02:21   making points dedicated point-and-shoot cameras even if they're selling fewer of [TS]

02:02:25   them in absolute terms is that a software platform like a gaming device [TS]

02:02:29   needs that network effect of having enough people out there to make it [TS]

02:02:34   worthwhile to make the game that's why I think you should have been crapping on [TS]

02:02:39   the Wii U more because the handheld space [TS]

02:02:43   Tendo am amazed we still have problems but it's not concurrently imminent [TS]

02:02:47   danger of collapse whereas the stop sign and tender is in worse shape because the [TS]

02:02:52   Wii U is not doing anything that they want out there in the market and it's [TS]

02:02:56   about to be run over by I assume the PlayStation 4 on that next I think both [TS]

02:03:00   going to come out of a much stronger than the way you did you I don't know [TS]

02:03:04   anything about the actual specs of the way you accept that we only [TS]

02:03:07   and we we also have PlayStation 3 which I've got like two games for but it seems [TS]

02:03:16   to me like just looking at them that the Wii U is finally like caught up to the [TS]

02:03:23   PlayStation 3 yeah that's pretty much where it's gone it's a previous its [TS]

02:03:28   previous generation harbored it looks roughly equivalent to meet you know in [TS]

02:03:31   terms of graphics as the PlayStation 3 [TS]

02:03:34   what we've got is Jonas into the Batman Arkham games which are like totally [TS]

02:03:40   inappropriate for a nine year old that we've got the one on PlayStation 3 and [TS]

02:03:47   the other one we went to me graphically they look almost indistinguishable which [TS]

02:03:52   makes me think that the PlayStation 4 is gonna come down so the reason that I [TS]

02:03:57   think you're way off with you with the iOS games right because it doesn't like [TS]

02:04:01   again assuming that you assume that there that there still place for gaming [TS]

02:04:07   hardware and the Nintendo is going to be in that you have to look at the way then [TS]

02:04:11   Tendo has how they succeeded what what what defines Nintendo and how are they [TS]

02:04:16   able to be a successful company the gets tells you things that you play games on [TS]

02:04:20   and possibly other things but not like a software platform and the wave antenna [TS]

02:04:25   succeeded over its entire history in the gaming world hinges on as I'm sure many [TS]

02:04:31   people have emailed you about the synergy of hardware and software like [TS]

02:04:34   Apple which is why people keep bringing that up right and I mean if you had to [TS]

02:04:39   pick three things I think like the NES like the original NES what was billed as [TS]

02:04:43   the hardware and software synergy there like why did why couldn't they just [TS]

02:04:47   making sure that was after the day you know game system crash the Atari crash [TS]

02:04:50   and everything and no one wants to sell game consoles as it was a sucker [TS]

02:04:53   business so they put their robot with it a rob the robot like that like a decoy [TS]

02:05:00   to you know to get the thing into the store shelves and get people to buy like [TS]

02:05:04   this is like an Atari that stupid thing to have this terrible games that just [TS]

02:05:07   this is a robot within the robot like people threw that away who knows but the [TS]

02:05:12   robots when like once you've got the thing and you played Super Mario Bros [TS]

02:05:15   like screw their robot like [TS]

02:05:16   it was a total geek but they can make the hardware they could put that stupid [TS]

02:05:20   robot in it to some degree or whatever and get things into people's homes then [TS]

02:05:25   so now we got things from you we can help you know make and they also make [TS]

02:05:29   the harbour cheap way cheaper than a PC of the day like the game console model [TS]

02:05:32   was no defined by the Qatari dole's people but it was it was dead people [TS]

02:05:37   that don't do that again so they too had to control the hardware to get the thing [TS]

02:05:39   into people's hands and then the N 64 was 3d of course in this is a very [TS]

02:05:43   powerful example them totally you know cannibalizing their own product they [TS]

02:05:47   were defined by little side-scrolling things that marianne jump over stuff and [TS]

02:05:51   they said no no more that the next mayor game is not going to be two-dimensional [TS]

02:05:54   you're not gonna run from left to right and jump and you know Angeles 323 just [TS]

02:06:01   gonna be in the end of the company but it wasn't and other other people got the [TS]

02:06:06   before them like you know there was the Sega Saturn and the PlayStation all came [TS]

02:06:09   out before they are all capable of 3d why didn't they intend to lunch well [TS]

02:06:14   because Nintendo is on the hardware and software together and was able to make [TS]

02:06:17   them work in synergy analog stick on the control is that we're going 3d and we [TS]

02:06:21   can't go 3d with a deep every got to have an analog stick other guys could [TS]

02:06:25   have done it they didn't until after intended and that made it such an [TS]

02:06:29   amazing experience of Mary 64 and and the analog stick that was the hardware [TS]

02:06:34   software synergy they could not have put mara 64 on the Sega Saturn they couldn't [TS]

02:06:37   have put it on the PlayStation right and that we was exactly the same thing you [TS]

02:06:41   know they were down in the dumps they had been in last place I have three [TS]

02:06:44   competitors in the past to console generation selling fewer and fewer with [TS]

02:06:47   each successive product they put out and so you're in you're in last place in the [TS]

02:06:51   next generation you're also in last place even more so right and so they [TS]

02:06:54   come with that we that is the one piece of hardware that standard death way do [TS]

02:06:58   they were less pleased to announce a new the GameCube [TS]

02:07:01   what was the one before that 64 heart that was last place three times as many [TS]

02:07:06   PlayStation sold is intended for that's funny because I had a contender 64 and [TS]

02:07:11   just so you know what I do remember from that you know what I remember from there [TS]

02:07:14   I did I had a Nintendo 64 and that was the era when blockbuster rented games in [TS]

02:07:19   my then remained at the time I remember that now in hindsight we were so pissed [TS]

02:07:23   because you go there and Blockbuster would have like 40 awesome PlayStation [TS]

02:07:28   games and and to Nintendo games and they were amazing things in the platform some [TS]

02:07:34   of the best games of his generation older they were losing great stuff but [TS]

02:07:39   not doing well and so when we came out like this is terrible is hardware specs [TS]

02:07:44   about it we're terrible and it would look ridiculous but you know that you [TS]

02:07:49   know we know what happened right totally crushed all of its competitors with the [TS]

02:07:53   worst hardware you could possibly ever imagined was basically just over you [TS]

02:07:56   know overclock GameCube again [TS]

02:07:58   previous generation hardware and they couldn't have done that if they didn't [TS]

02:08:02   also make the hardware because there's no way you can sell Wii Sports on any [TS]

02:08:06   other platforms [TS]

02:08:07   right well why can't they make iOS games while they continue to make their own [TS]

02:08:10   and just expand into it like I you know like my analogy like weird isn't he went [TS]

02:08:16   made TV shows and kept making feature films why can't they treat this as a [TS]

02:08:20   third opportunity where they went from console to console and handheld with the [TS]

02:08:25   GameBoy and they've kept going the DSi and treat mobile phones as a third [TS]

02:08:29   opportunity why would they take like they have something good right and they [TS]

02:08:36   know they know they can't make something has good for someone else platform but I [TS]

02:08:41   think it's because it shrinking and I think it's inevitably going to continue [TS]

02:08:44   to shrink I think if they've only sold 33 million of this one in a hundred and [TS]

02:08:48   thirty months then the next generation when the matter what it looks like [TS]

02:08:51   they're only gonna sell 15 well if you take the past as a as an indicator of [TS]

02:08:57   possible attitude they went to entire console generations being in last place [TS]

02:09:01   in doing worse and worse and didn't execute the plan you're suggesting maybe [TS]

02:09:06   this current drop with the Wii U is is work much worse than his previous ones [TS]

02:09:10   so we'll see but they make so much more money selling games on their own [TS]

02:09:14   platforms they want someone else if you think the cautionary tale save the [TS]

02:09:18   people keep bringing up you know once you're just a software maker you live [TS]

02:09:22   and die by the hits you like a movie studio right and it's our platforms you [TS]

02:09:27   don't control with promotion to do yourself you can't like promote your own [TS]

02:09:31   stuff inside [TS]

02:09:32   you don't control the platform like Apple doesn't own its own store is no [TS]

02:09:37   ongoing platform royalties or hardware profits to sustain you while you're [TS]

02:09:41   making these games like hit studios like you gotta have you hit movie gotta have [TS]

02:09:45   it and if you don't have it then you're screwed like you don't want to be in the [TS]

02:09:50   business of publishing games the software the game software business is [TS]

02:09:54   terrible and cutthroat that's why there's so few people still ended the so [TS]

02:09:57   much consolidation because even if you have it came time to have a game in the [TS]

02:10:01   studio closes anyway are you get brought up by a competitor liquidated it is not [TS]

02:10:05   the business you want to be in much better to be in the business of selling [TS]

02:10:08   platform make a little money on the hardware and then making platform [TS]

02:10:11   royalties for every game that's all in your platform and be able to tell your [TS]

02:10:14   own games on your platform for way more money than you can charge the same games [TS]

02:10:17   in the App Store I totally agree with all of that I just don't think it's [TS]

02:10:21   feasible going forward I just don't think especially on hand out I just [TS]

02:10:26   don't think that it's feasible because you're asking people to carry a second [TS]

02:10:31   device you may be right about the handheld market because it's like if I [TS]

02:10:37   think about the the reason I think less about the handheld market tomorrow but [TS]

02:10:40   television market because it's because like I'm kind of amazed at the number of [TS]

02:10:44   3ds as they continue to sell it makes me think that there's still a market for [TS]

02:10:48   people who want to play you know deep games on a handheld and the reason I [TS]

02:10:52   think that market is protected is because no one with the exception of [TS]

02:10:56   Sony seems to want it [TS]

02:10:57   Microsoft as we mentioned earlier there's no portable Xbox they're not [TS]

02:11:01   getting into that doesn't for whatever reason right [TS]

02:11:03   sony has tried to compete with Nintendo in this area for so long and has very [TS]

02:11:08   often had interesting devices it wasn't the first one the best selling I thought [TS]

02:11:11   the from the there's an older PlayStation hand-held that was the [TS]

02:11:15   best-selling hand-held of all time [TS]

02:11:17   PSP yeah [TS]

02:11:19   what was the best seller of all time that somebody had an article one of [TS]

02:11:23   these ones that was that the DES was the second best of all time but that the [TS]

02:11:28   best of all time was the PSP game boy certainly wasn't the PSP but it's only [TS]

02:11:36   has tried to compete and is not quite done it right but Apple does not want [TS]

02:11:43   that market despite they're like oh you can I use a controller is your iOS [TS]

02:11:47   devices I so far has not been interested in selling you a device that has buttons [TS]

02:11:53   and shoulder buttons and triggers and stuff and lets you play traditional [TS]

02:11:56   games like that and so is that market goes away then find those guys go away [TS]

02:11:59   but if there that's why there continues to be a market for you wanna play games [TS]

02:12:03   that can be played with a shoulder buttons and face buttons and Apple [TS]

02:12:07   doesn't want that market and Sony can't be content to in the Nintendo keeps them [TS]

02:12:10   well that's why I think that they could do it and continue to make the devices [TS]

02:12:15   and let the devices before the more serious game players who want those [TS]

02:12:19   extra hardware things and make different games that are specific for mobile and I [TS]

02:12:25   think the extra money on that everybody motivated people from buying things and [TS]

02:12:30   your suggestion americorps I don't wanna play with touch controls nobody wants to [TS]

02:12:34   do that like any maybe they saw a bunch of copies they sell tons of copies if [TS]

02:12:38   they if they put Super Mario Brothers 2d side scroller with an on-screen keypad [TS]

02:12:41   sure that sought copies but it's not the experiences they want and he motivates [TS]

02:12:46   people from buying the platforms to make much more money like I mean say say it [TS]

02:12:50   went so far only cuz it had to hardware failed and it didn't have it didn't have [TS]

02:12:54   the bank the bank roll and you know the history and the stability of Nintendo [TS]

02:12:58   right so it's Dreamcast to make it in the market and they had two eggs at the [TS]

02:13:02   harvard business software I just don't want to see Nintendo wait until they [TS]

02:13:05   have to be too late [TS]

02:13:07   well and they have a lot more a lot more time on their side that the reason I'm [TS]

02:13:11   worried so much about the television console space more than the portable and [TS]

02:13:15   because like I said the portable on Apple seems not to be not to want that [TS]

02:13:18   they're not going to come in Apple or Microsoft thing people who come in there [TS]

02:13:23   and not intend to [TS]

02:13:24   around so he's been trying to knock around doesn't succeed Apple could but I [TS]

02:13:27   don't think they want it but in the television attached console space they [TS]

02:13:30   think they have a problem because it's much easier for Apple to almost [TS]

02:13:35   accidentally crushed them in the market and the portable gaming market I'm not [TS]

02:13:42   so sure about that because I don't think the 3ds would be a viable platform still [TS]

02:13:46   is but if Apple produces a television attached device with the GPU power of [TS]

02:13:52   the iPad 4 in it which is not inconceivable that they could ship a [TS]

02:13:54   little pup ship thing like that and hooks up to the App Store right you know [TS]

02:13:59   you're not going to touch your TV screen anyways so there has to be some kind of [TS]

02:14:01   doing that but suddenly the idea of apple or someone else like giving you a [TS]

02:14:07   game controller for your television connected Apple device for the GPU and [TS]

02:14:11   that's comfortable in power to what seemed like you know now that is a big [TS]

02:14:16   problem for Nintendo or any other company for the television attached [TS]

02:14:20   console because it makes it really easy to buy games it really easy to manage [TS]

02:14:24   games the hunter worry about all that and makes it really easy to develop [TS]

02:14:27   games and anybody who wants to make a game can get it on their TV and you can [TS]

02:14:31   play it and that is around where I think Apple maybe not would be enthusiastic [TS]

02:14:35   about making controller whatever time the controller is a possibility because [TS]

02:14:38   the control like if you try to sell like a third party control I go by my game [TS]

02:14:42   from the App Store for your phone but you need this weird thing I think that's [TS]

02:14:45   a harder sell than buying in for TV and of course you need this week which is [TS]

02:14:49   how the house you can play a game on TV you can't touch the screen you're not [TS]

02:14:52   gonna play with their remote right so you know the new Apple TV has Bluetooth [TS]

02:14:56   and there's the App Store now and you can play Mike like I don't think that's [TS]

02:14:59   apples plan or whatever but that is a bigger danger to especially with the way [TS]

02:15:03   you totally taking that kind of danger of a competitor does all the things [TS]

02:15:07   right then attended was wrong and also by the way has a reasonably viable game [TS]

02:15:12   platform at that point that could really you know if you take away all of all of [TS]

02:15:17   Nintendo's television that console sales all they've got left is the portable [TS]

02:15:20   don't know that's enough to subsidize the next you know builder mara 3d again [TS]

02:15:28   will see the good discussion before I let you go I have a question for a [TS]

02:15:32   serious question let's say that the group household was thinking about maybe [TS]

02:15:39   maybe by ps4 or or Xbox one which is which one looks like it's gonna be [TS]

02:15:45   better place for question right onto doing research this is like when Amy [TS]

02:15:52   usually want Marco to research something whatever we want to buy something I [TS]

02:15:56   thought why would I even look into this I'll just get Syracuse on the show and I [TS]

02:16:00   just asked him and i dont have to look into it [TS]

02:16:02   yeah it's the purest plain old attached you play games of it it's got everything [TS]

02:16:10   going for it has none of the weird you don't even have to explain it don't even [TS]

02:16:13   explain it could not go before we go as we've been on we've been recording for [TS]

02:16:18   four hours have you seen this is the lasting just came out like a day or two [TS]

02:16:23   ago Venture Beat has reported pictures of samsung Smart Watch that there's [TS]

02:16:29   going to be announced three days they've been talking to you I gotta see this [TS]

02:16:36   before we say I am going to go with that they've been pumped and I mean I'm not [TS]

02:16:46   even joking I'm not even in the link to it from doing fireball until somebody I [TS]

02:16:51   i'm not going to lead to a fireball I'm not I'm not gonna do it because I don't [TS]

02:16:55   want this is one of the things I live in fear is that somebody is gonna post [TS]

02:17:00   perfect somebody else is going to fall for a prank but it's right in my [TS]

02:17:05   wheelhouse and fits with my preconceived biases and I'm gonna go on for the ride [TS]

02:17:13   to and make some wisecrack about it and it's going to turn out it was the whole [TS]

02:17:18   thing was a punk [TS]

02:17:19   because this thing I don't think that's beyond the Samsung to produce I don't [TS]

02:17:27   either that's so I'm tempted I think it could be real but it's so bad that I get [TS]

02:17:34   so bad I'm not going to until somebody can confirm I get my guess would have [TS]

02:17:38   been that this is a private already exists you know that this doesn't sound [TS]

02:17:42   like something that maybe came out two years ago it probably already exists [TS]

02:17:45   taking jobs that bad I was seen as possible just because maybe no news [TS]

02:17:49   about it didn't sell out but someone dug up a picture in the catalog and there it [TS]

02:17:52   is [TS]

02:17:53   into looks like a Saturday Night Live skit it's like an iPhone 3G and iPhone [TS]

02:17:57   strapped to the cut somebody's rest is nothing in the screenshots right I don't [TS]

02:18:03   think so bothersome there there's like the logo and there's a little help I I [TS]

02:18:07   can't help but think it's posts something you know like some kind of [TS]

02:18:12   health tracker looks like it's you know it's like a bar graph I don't know I [TS]

02:18:15   like the little drawings showing like the pencil drawings of the side view [TS]

02:18:19   that seems more plausible to me I could have done everything and it looks like [TS]

02:18:22   it didn't come out two years ago this is really bad I think it's ok but boy if [TS]

02:18:30   this is it is exactly what I thought it was gonna be which is you cannot believe [TS]

02:18:35   how bad Samsung is designing something when they don't have even tried maybe [TS]

02:18:40   it's an amazing transformative I like how you been on the drawings it's so big [TS]

02:18:44   that it's it's double the width of the rest of the drug photoshop job it looks [TS]

02:18:50   like it's the strap is too big like tilting like a little kid wearing is [TS]

02:18:55   that swatch [TS]

02:18:59   I can't wait to see if this is real I'm I'm so worried that it's not that I'm [TS]

02:19:03   like spice shots and rumours linking to the eight thousand pictures of the [TS]

02:19:09   iPhone 5 C or whatever you want something to talk about an ounce exactly [TS]

02:19:13   I think the gold thing seems to do with the gold iPhone do you think it's going [TS]

02:19:18   to be the white iPhone now has gold metallic trim or is it a third of its [TS]

02:19:25   whatever keeps saying I kind of agree with the people think the black and gold [TS]

02:19:28   might be good but like I don't think it's crazy for it to be champagne [TS]

02:19:36   colored yeah I don't think so either I don't think it's crazy it's not really [TS]

02:19:39   my taste but I've never bought the white one anyway but I feel like if the only [TS]

02:19:43   way to get away with that I feel like that's asking a lot for people who do [TS]

02:19:47   like white I gotta gotta stick with the white and black and the nice thing but [TS]

02:19:53   then what face does this thing have white face so there'll be two white ones [TS]

02:19:57   you think one with the plain silver trim and won gold and I am I saying that just [TS]

02:20:04   because that's everything that I've her I don't know I tend to think otherwise I [TS]

02:20:07   see I tend to think it's more Apple like that if they're only gonna have black [TS]

02:20:10   and white faces that there's one black overall color scheme and one white [TS]

02:20:15   overall color scheme and I just feel like that would be more Apple even [TS]

02:20:20   though personally I would find that disappointing it's very difficult to [TS]

02:20:23   make judgments like this when all you see here are you know mock-ups in like [TS]

02:20:28   the exact color of gold dictates whether it looks awful with wider good with ya [TS]

02:20:33   and everything we've seen you know if I do so much smoke with the gold trim that [TS]

02:20:38   it I feel like there's enough smoke than willing to say there's problems [TS]

02:20:41   certainly a fire but it's all based on like weird component leaks and it's [TS]

02:20:46   somebody with a cellphone taking a picture of a thing under fluorescent [TS]

02:20:49   lights and tons of markets 8,000 markets at this event could look like colors [TS]

02:21:01   materials maybe I can get with you become fashion as long as you know [TS]

02:21:06   donation or flower power I hadn't even thought about the fact that could be the [TS]

02:21:10   black one then I would be a real dilemma for me personally like you well that's [TS]

02:21:16   assuming there is a totally blame if my choice if my choice were between a white [TS]

02:21:21   one with silver trim and black faced one with gold trim she's on an adapted to [TS]

02:21:28   look at him but I was 7 makes the white one something more attractive for the [TS]

02:21:32   obsessive people who want things like match like you know what I was 7 looks [TS]

02:21:36   like it was made for the white iPhone I you know people have said that I don't [TS]

02:21:40   see that I have been running seven bidders ever since beta 3 black iPhone [TS]

02:21:45   and I don't see it as any less cohesive you're right you're right in reality but [TS]

02:21:51   in the product shots look yeah I reality always remind people never by white iOS [TS]

02:21:56   devices all you're doing is highlighting how bad the White is on those screens [TS]

02:22:01   right because the white on the screen is never going to be as wide as the real [TS]

02:22:04   white thing especially in sunlight is gonna look worse and worse all you're [TS]

02:22:08   doing is making your screen look danger and crappier by putting bright white [TS]

02:22:12   black screen looks amazing to see like everything else fades away and I will [TS]

02:22:17   totally believe that white on that screen is exactly what what should look [TS]

02:22:20   like as i dont have three millimeters from it [TS]

02:22:22   piece of white plastic that's why would look like if I wasn't looking at you [TS]

02:22:26   know any glowing backlight yeah I do agree that it it looks better it would [TS]

02:22:33   look better in their product product shots in fact already does in their in [TS]

02:22:36   their Iowa 7 [TS]

02:22:39   everything in their products magic magic yeah perfect way into you know it's like [TS]

02:22:45   the same white that in the background of their commercials [TS]

02:22:49   heavenly way [TS]

02:22:52   I don't call the show it was good to me [TS]