The Talk Show

68: We`re Gonna Get Email


00:00:00   how r America pretty good how are you have a bit of a cold and want to [TS]

00:00:06   complain now i've i've been half sick for about three weeks it's one of those [TS]

00:00:11   annoying things that everybody has we're like there's no one day where it's [TS]

00:00:16   really bad you guys feel kind of shitty for like three weeks right and the whole [TS]

00:00:22   family is gone so hopefully I won't be too sniffly gross on the show and take a [TS]

00:00:27   little and take a little cold medicine doesn't doesn't sound like cold [TS]

00:00:34   medicines I usually take it and I can man I have never done this before we're [TS]

00:00:40   attempting a sort of a double-double and deficit ever actually gonna split into [TS]

00:00:45   two opposite things I really do want to talk to you about this week but I also [TS]

00:00:52   thought you know with all the big deal that got made out of the max thirtieth [TS]

00:00:57   anniversary that I you know whoever had fun we could talk about that but maybe [TS]

00:01:02   you're I don't know maybe you're the best person to talk about that with [TS]

00:01:04   because you're a relatively you know you weren't longtime Mac user [TS]

00:01:10   I'm only 31 Syracuse and I started talking about that though I worry that [TS]

00:01:14   it would be like six episodes will then there you go [TS]

00:01:17   and if it's gonna take him two weeks to prepare for that we could do like a 90 [TS]

00:01:22   minute episode just done resin it you don't even remember resident there was [TS]

00:01:28   somebody did eventually make a Windows program with that same name that I think [TS]

00:01:31   the same thing but I i kno of it I use the Windows version but who cares but [TS]

00:01:37   yeah I dunno gateway drug [TS]

00:01:44   it was a gateway drug to hacking your system you know and and [TS]

00:01:49   it was the equivalent at the time of waco be showing the package contents of [TS]

00:01:53   a nap and going in and you know like so for example if you wanted to change the [TS]

00:02:00   toolbar icons in any app you can show package contents on the adopt . app [TS]

00:02:04   bundle find the resources in there and they're just image files replace them [TS]

00:02:09   with the image files of your choice and then the next time you launch the app if [TS]

00:02:12   you did it right you'll have your own custom toolbar icons or something like [TS]

00:02:16   that in in the classic Mac you didn't have a bundle in the file system [TS]

00:02:22   resources where it was the whole thing where there were two forks to a file and [TS]

00:02:27   the resource for was where well Redknapp would have all of its like icons and [TS]

00:02:32   stuff like that [TS]

00:02:33   see that was back in the days when Apple could actually do creative things with [TS]

00:02:38   how the file system worked where they didn't have to worry that much about [TS]

00:02:41   Windows compatibility cuz it was compatible anyway and there was a lot of [TS]

00:02:44   network transfer going on and there is now that they can't do anything like [TS]

00:02:48   that now they can't you know they they have to keep their file system as simple [TS]

00:02:52   and stupid as least common denominator gonna find out there in the world which [TS]

00:02:55   includes server file systems network file systems Windows compact flash cards [TS]

00:03:00   all that stuff and that they had like they can't do that kind of [TS]

00:03:03   experimentation we're like they have they have they have at their senate [TS]

00:03:07   attributed now but those are but you can see how about those reported as a [TS]

00:03:11   real-life example of why they can't do much else with that [TS]

00:03:15   and I remember it was when it when did you get your first I came in in 2004 as [TS]

00:03:24   I I just graduated from college I got my first jobs was a little bit of money and [TS]

00:03:29   I need a new computer cause my my PCs were agent quickly and I had never owned [TS]

00:03:35   a laptop before that except for like one awful when I bought off ebay for like a [TS]

00:03:39   hundred bucks that lasted a summer but I never really under every laptop and I [TS]

00:03:46   don't remember there is there is a story that still exists I think called [TS]

00:03:49   Microcenter chain of computer sales stores and yes I in Columbus that was [TS]

00:03:55   like the best place to go to my friends and I would go there like every weekend [TS]

00:03:58   is like look around and maybe like by some CDRs or something maybe [TS]

00:04:01   occasionally some kind of cheap peripheral but nothing really major and [TS]

00:04:05   we know he stopped and little Mack room is the max had a look at an enclosed [TS]

00:04:09   glass area like when you go into going to Best Buy doesn't like the Bose room [TS]

00:04:13   like that but for them for like you know they gotta keep the max isolated over [TS]

00:04:19   here so they don't get the rest the computer sick and so we go in there and [TS]

00:04:23   we've played this game like art fair to figure something out on the Mac so we'd [TS]

00:04:26   we'd all sit down and one on her and stable who can figure out how to open [TS]

00:04:29   the CD ROM Drive and like two and we'd be sitting there like staring at the [TS]

00:04:35   computer pushing various buns no one figures out how to open the CD ROM Drive [TS]

00:04:39   in like the guy comes over obviously like we were just some jerky teenagers [TS]

00:04:43   in there with his big side like it's the button on the keyboard anyway so I [TS]

00:04:51   always knew max from from that really you know I i've really know anyone who [TS]

00:04:57   had won and the ones that that they were growing up work terrible his they were [TS]

00:05:01   all like you know the mid-nineties maksud nobody liked I wouldn't say that [TS]

00:05:06   I still like them it's it's really that I I think it gets over stayed in and so [TS]

00:05:12   how bad the nineties max work I think the problem is that [TS]

00:05:19   there were definitely some performance to price issues where where and that's [TS]

00:05:26   where this whole it's it's stuck with Apple ever since that Apple is computers [TS]

00:05:32   are overpriced you're paying for the brand etcetera etcetera and if you just [TS]

00:05:35   ran benchmarks it was you know like two grand Mac was almost certainly going to [TS]

00:05:40   be slower than it to Grand PC probably slower than like $1500 PC and maybe get [TS]

00:05:48   a price is wrong because God computers used to be so expensive [TS]

00:05:51   oh yeah I mean my first computer in 1994 was $2,500 and pretty pretty mid-range [TS]

00:05:58   it wasn't like a super high and it was pretty mid-range PC I think more or less [TS]

00:06:03   we have now in the nineties was that that the Mac loss in needed to be such a [TS]

00:06:08   lot better than the commodity when tell machines of the day and it no longer was [TS]

00:06:18   it was better it was certainly still more elegant there in terms of the way [TS]

00:06:21   the OS was designed conceptually not at the low level you know the way the [TS]

00:06:25   webpage could lock up your whole system i mean that was terrible I mean that's [TS]

00:06:31   really where that that's one of the that's the other problem they probably [TS]

00:06:34   had a hardware got slow and the OS was I get a GED level outdated and it mattered [TS]

00:06:42   to users even you know that that the geeky stuff was so outdated because it [TS]

00:06:48   affected the real world performance you know it so you don't have to understand [TS]

00:06:51   cars at all to understand that when you get gas it should go faster and if you [TS]

00:06:57   hit gas in your car just turned off which is sort of like with the Mac had [TS]

00:07:01   it you know I don't necessarily think that's exclusive to the Mac though i [TS]

00:07:08   mean the the mid and late nineties [TS]

00:07:11   actually a pretty terrible time for PCs as well i mean that that was a time when [TS]

00:07:15   you know Ram was still very scarce and expensive hard drives of course we're [TS]

00:07:20   very very slow at the same time this was when browsing the web is really becoming [TS]

00:07:24   a big thing and so you had this this pretty resource-intensive common task [TS]

00:07:30   for the first time in awhile you know games it was pushed to have a little bit [TS]

00:07:34   you know games [TS]

00:07:35   ok I'm pretty much anything in their settings but your web browser like [TS]

00:07:41   browsing the web you can't turn that down and make it less intensive and and [TS]

00:07:46   that was you know the webbrowser moving very quickly you're getting things like [TS]

00:07:51   inline images JavaScript tables frames all this new stuff that was making [TS]

00:07:56   rendering the page [TS]

00:07:58   much more complicated and take much more memory and so when memory was still very [TS]

00:08:03   scarce than you have the operating systems being you know really pushing [TS]

00:08:07   this is like in the PCR this is Windows 98 Windows 95 these were not good [TS]

00:08:12   operating systems by any means and and certainly not very advanced it like they [TS]

00:08:16   were still very rudimentary with how to manage their memory what they could [TS]

00:08:19   tolerate how they used hardware there was not a lot of video acceleration so [TS]

00:08:24   lots more things are falling on these very slow CPUs and so there's all this [TS]

00:08:28   all this drain being put on the system's multitasking was getting more and more [TS]

00:08:34   common as more people are getting more comfortable with computers they were [TS]

00:08:36   able to more on so they were pushing the RAM even further I mean pretty much [TS]

00:08:41   anything you would do on a PC in the nineties the hard drive will be grinding [TS]

00:08:45   away trying to take everything back into RAM from whatever you were done recently [TS]

00:08:48   as they were just never enough RAM and harddrive lighter always blinking on 90 [TS]

00:08:54   species like the sound of computing in the nineties was that like grinding hard [TS]

00:08:58   drive access sound that was it [TS]

00:09:00   modem you ever get because that was the first time where you have unlimited [TS]

00:09:05   dial-up 444 instead of having to pay only three dollars an hour so it was it [TS]

00:09:12   was a pretty bad time for all computers really have it was exciting that we are [TS]

00:09:16   making progress [TS]

00:09:17   us on the internet and stuff to do with the computers but it took the hardware a [TS]

00:09:21   long time to get a lot of headroom and and like any other thousands we got that [TS]

00:09:27   rammed are really cheap CPUs got his big boom when I am disturbed really [TS]

00:09:31   competing with Intel in a meaningful way it was really great for awhile there I [TS]

00:09:38   the other thing that struck me with all the thirty-year original Mac nostalgia [TS]

00:09:42   is is and it's a cliche to some degree to just you know obsess over how just [TS]

00:09:49   how you know the the whole thing like you know that everybody's cell phone has [TS]

00:09:55   more computing power than the entire Apollo project of NASA sixties you know [TS]

00:10:01   a single life from his badge more computing power than every computer nasa [TS]

00:10:04   something like that I don't know but it really is true and you think back to the [TS]

00:10:11   you know specially the eighties but even then nineties just how ridiculously [TS]

00:10:15   resource-constrained the machines were compared to today so chris says Panozzo [TS]

00:10:20   zike Apple employee number eight think something like that is ridiculously low [TS]

00:10:26   employee number and has been employed at Apple continuously ever since this is [TS]

00:10:31   the only one who's been employed continuously yes it's all about the only [TS]

00:10:35   problem is I was officially I believe is always been an Apple employee well [TS]

00:10:41   that's kind of shake but was has you know he's like you know this job title [TS]

00:10:45   is why was you know I don't know if we can get into an Apple building [TS]

00:10:51   yeah I think Espinoza is the only person who's actually like worked non-stop on [TS]

00:10:57   real projects ever since we need almost ridiculous that anybody including him as [TS]

00:11:03   I mean it's preposterous he was like he was 16 years old or something like that [TS]

00:11:09   when he started he got like so like if he if he does stayed even like a [TS]

00:11:15   reasonable retirement age you know sixties or something like that he'll [TS]

00:11:20   he'll have been there like an impossible to break record time because he started [TS]

00:11:24   when he was 16 yeah that's that's pretty crazy lol me at this point like why [TS]

00:11:30   leave you know if he's made it this far I think that's why the i think is he [TS]

00:11:34   loves it you know I think that he really you know he just lives and breathes you [TS]

00:11:39   know I don't know him that well I've met him a few times only to be too BC you [TS]

00:11:42   know but you know it's the impression you get from in from the stories that [TS]

00:11:46   have been published from the old days is you know he's your prototypical Apple [TS]

00:11:51   engineer you know sort of person who loves obsessing over making something [TS]

00:11:56   really nice and you know going the extra mile to do it anyway he tweeted though [TS]

00:12:02   something to the effect of you know the original Mac the 1984 matter we're [TS]

00:12:07   celebrating the 30th anniversary had a hundred and twenty eight kilobytes of [TS]

00:12:11   RAM and so that's not even enough I think he said like it would be enough to [TS]

00:12:15   fit to find her icons from the Mac OS 10.9 and and gagged from my contractor [TS]

00:12:24   is like a good fit any they're bigger than that now you couldn't even fit a [TS]

00:12:28   single icon in the RAM on an original Mac the entire operating system [TS]

00:12:33   everything [TS]

00:12:34   was everything using an app you know launching a nap and using the app and [TS]

00:12:38   having documents open and all the contents from the documents are and all [TS]

00:12:42   of that was less memory than the Finder uses just throwing icon yeah I mean like [TS]

00:12:48   when we so when I think of my podcast I have to have this giant set of shell [TS]

00:12:52   script that I use to are as much as possible and if the final files encoded [TS]

00:12:57   on the command line with the lame encoder and there's a limit of hundred [TS]

00:13:01   and twenty eight kilobyte or how big the artwork files can be and that's [TS]

00:13:04   surprisingly hard to hit like I had a really crappy quality down to just [TS]

00:13:10   barely fit this one image that isn't even a complex barely fit as one image [TS]

00:13:17   into the amount of entire RAM the first Mac it's just ridiculous and then even [TS]

00:13:24   you know the next and Moore's law applied in all sorts of ways you know [TS]

00:13:31   from Mike probably like the NEX maybe not quite two decades but least the next [TS]

00:13:35   15 years like from 1984 through around 2,000 where processor speeds doubles [TS]

00:13:41   every 18 months hard drives Dumbledore wasn't even hard drives originally was [TS]

00:13:46   floppies but you know your storage space doubled pretty quickly ran like what's [TS]

00:13:51   what's a typical configured with four RAM doubled every couple years but even [TS]

00:13:59   at that pace like the first Mac iPhone was 1991 when I went to college and it [TS]

00:14:05   was a Mac LCD with four megs of RAM and a 40 gig hard drive [TS]

00:14:10   keg [TS]

00:14:11   I swear in hindsight like half of my time using a machine was spent trying to [TS]

00:14:19   manage that forty megabytes of hard drive space like figure out what I could [TS]

00:14:27   believe what I would move to floppies and how I'd label the floppies so I [TS]

00:14:32   could you know her back to the whatever it was again it was all I ever did we [TS]

00:14:40   see everything and anything like this for PCs was we had a thing called disc [TS]

00:14:46   dubler yeah where they just like basically does it was a compression on [TS]

00:14:50   the disc that there were all sorts of things like that and they were always [TS]

00:14:53   like you always hear stories of people losing everything because messed up and [TS]

00:14:56   I couldn't read it I of course bought it and installed it I think I bought it may [TS]

00:15:02   be a pirate I don't know but pretty sure I bought it because it seemed like it [TS]

00:15:05   was so important that I really I wanted to be sure is getting a legit copy of [TS]

00:15:11   course I ran it and it was true it did maybe it wasn't quite double but it was [TS]

00:15:16   very very close to the effective volume of eighty megabytes and it just felt so [TS]

00:15:21   spacious and I never I never had a catastrophic problem with it but I knew [TS]

00:15:27   that there are other people who did and in hindsight I wanna go back and just [TS]

00:15:30   strangle myself nineteen or twenty year old self who did it because it seems [TS]

00:15:35   like the dumbest possible thing you could ever install and that was also [TS]

00:15:39   most people I mean you think today nobody has backups it was way worse you [TS]

00:15:46   could you write another 40 make hard drive to serve as I could clone of some [TS]

00:15:52   sort of my dry wood was like wasn't even possible as I used 2004 terabyte [TS]

00:16:00   external drive today for a hundred and fifty bucks [TS]

00:16:04   was there were an external drives there wasn't four terabytes they would [TS]

00:16:09   certainly 150 but it wasn't even your only option was to copy the keys that [TS]

00:16:15   was it that was the only realistic option that any consumer I mean you know [TS]

00:16:18   businesses and servers were probably have tape drives that point but but [TS]

00:16:22   consumers wouldn't you know your only option was pleased as a college student [TS]

00:16:26   in the first half of the nineties I actually sweated the price of floppy [TS]

00:16:30   disks yeah right and I knew enough I was I was smart enough to know that didn't [TS]

00:16:40   matter too much what you know [TS]

00:16:42   paying for name-brand floppies will you know floppies in general suck period you [TS]

00:16:46   know you're asking for trouble if your only copy of data was on a flight B C [TS]

00:16:52   you can you can get more for your money but just by noname brand floppies and I [TS]

00:16:56   don't think it was you know I don't think you're really any worse for it but [TS]

00:17:00   it just by like 10 packs of a man on a typical you know like a typical college [TS]

00:17:05   student I was spent most of college like knowing which ATM machines I could use [TS]

00:17:10   to take $10 out instead of 20 because they re at 1700 [TS]

00:17:14   spin off lucky exactly go out but I and and then like when when company started [TS]

00:17:23   giving out poppies for like promotions I mean people mock and still to this day [TS]

00:17:28   aol for handing out floppy disks like like cotton candy it was great because [TS]

00:17:34   then you could take a min for Madame in and use them for yourself and I needed [TS]

00:17:37   or sometimes you have to actually punched a hole in the corner of 22 [TS]

00:17:42   market is writable right right I remember that we're going to take over [TS]

00:17:47   always present it was only to get to take over the whole something appealing [TS]

00:17:52   masking tape of course great idea putting that into it just destroyed but [TS]

00:17:56   yes of course we all do that used to be this is so ridiculous the Mac I think it [TS]

00:18:03   was even so and system 7 when I had my formatting a floppy disk I think even [TS]

00:18:11   find her copies was system model when you're covering something to a floppy [TS]

00:18:18   it was you had to wait everything had to wait even if you had a couple apps open [TS]

00:18:22   he would wait even just to switch to another appt until the Copy Wizard yeah [TS]

00:18:27   I mean I denied my first few years of computing run Windows 3.1 and and I [TS]

00:18:32   don't think it was it wasn't quite that bad I think you could technically switch [TS]

00:18:36   apps but everything else be so slow you would you wouldn't really want to [TS]

00:18:40   yeah I mean it was computing was so incredibly prehistoric if so rudimentary [TS]

00:18:48   back then and really we've come a long way I mean you know I used to always [TS]

00:18:53   wonder you know I would think like 10 years ago what back when I was in in the [TS]

00:18:59   nineties before ahead internet access at all I had a computer for like three [TS]

00:19:04   years before ever having a nexus what the heck did I do all day on a guy I [TS]

00:19:09   remember spending hours on it but once you have the internet and in like you [TS]

00:19:15   know if the internet goes out at your house and you know so sleepy for [TS]

00:19:18   smartphones are you didn't just have an easy backup if the internet goes out of [TS]

00:19:21   this computer like this is useless and looking back I was out there like what [TS]

00:19:28   the heck do I do all day but you know when you think a little more critically [TS]

00:19:31   actually I wasn't doing that much everything just took forever yeah that's [TS]

00:19:36   true that is very true everything to God Almighty I feel like if you if you time [TS]

00:19:42   travel back to that infuriate you wouldn't like having a [TS]

00:19:47   it would take my take months and maybe never to get acclimated everything and [TS]

00:19:53   everything in his tiny kind of 14 inch CRT monitor there was and it was really [TS]

00:19:58   nice at the time I mean just and we've come so long and now I'm bitching about [TS]

00:20:03   my 30 inch monitor not being high resolution enough original manhattan [TS]

00:20:08   dine in style and it was by some measures really really nice for the time [TS]

00:20:13   because [TS]

00:20:14   it because it was black and white square pixels instead of rectangular pixels [TS]

00:20:19   which is actually what a lot of sorties in the eighties used it was like lines [TS]

00:20:26   were thinner and pixels are smaller and everything was crisper than on the [TS]

00:20:31   displays we're used to before it but nine inches dangles tiny I mean you're [TS]

00:20:37   talking smaller other night Petsmart and iPad is something that you said that you [TS]

00:20:46   know arms like a lot of people look back and you know we've seen a lot of this [TS]

00:20:54   with a Mac anniversary but but not as much as I would expect a lot of people [TS]

00:20:58   look back on previous eras of of technology or living in 2000 out [TS]

00:21:04   everything was so great and reliable and simple back then and I've never had that [TS]

00:21:09   kind of nostalgia I don't care at all about old computers old technology I [TS]

00:21:14   look back on it with like flight contempt like I can't believe these [TS]

00:21:20   things suck in ways X Y and Z like I like when a couple years ago [TS]

00:21:26   all these all these sites like mixtape started in a bunch of us I came up to [TS]

00:21:30   like to use the cassette tape the audio cassette tape as some kind of like hip [TS]

00:21:36   metaphor for music [TS]

00:21:38   activity of some sort or sharing and I hated cassette tapes they were terrible [TS]

00:21:43   but there it was a terrible terrible medium in every possible way I don't [TS]

00:21:48   want to relive those days ever [TS]

00:21:50   floppy disk same thing floppy disks were awful in every possible way even at the [TS]

00:21:55   time everyone knew they were awful now everyone knows they're awful in 10 more [TS]

00:21:59   years [TS]

00:22:00   arcades gonna like Federer shiz floppy disk into the code is so cool so analog [TS]

00:22:04   kind of like it's gonna be a thing somebody tweeted today got my start [TS]

00:22:11   retweeted I was I got hurt in it so it showed up like six times in my replies [TS]

00:22:16   but it was a comic somebody drew [TS]

00:22:18   you wear an adult was showing a child a floppy disk and the child says cool you [TS]

00:22:24   made a 3d model of the save icon I guess the other thing though that really [TS]

00:22:34   stands out and I and I think it's why this thirtieth anniversary of the Mac [TS]

00:22:39   thing resonated so strongly is that the technology was so bad [TS]

00:22:45   everything was slow and everything was so constrained that like you said in [TS]

00:22:49   some ways it's not a lot of nostalgia we're at we're like you might want if [TS]

00:22:53   you're into wristwatches buying like dented one from the sixties like 50 year [TS]

00:22:58   old watches they're still great time pieces right there still today just [TS]

00:23:02   great in like an old car maybe a little bit less so in terms of a lot of the [TS]

00:23:08   details but there's a reason people still collect old cars like my my [TS]

00:23:13   father-in-law had the seventy-seven Corvette and they they retired they [TS]

00:23:18   moved upstate and we had in our garage for a few months trying to sell it and I [TS]

00:23:23   had to move it a few times and he came out a few times when the driver to [TS]

00:23:26   various places and there's appeal for a lot of people of classic cars and I was [TS]

00:23:31   like oh my god this thing is a death trap and it has no features the heat [TS]

00:23:36   sucks it doesn't run that reliably like oh my god what like why would anybody [TS]

00:23:40   want this even that I have I have no nostalgia for that maybe you have a good [TS]

00:23:50   point there may be it may be old cars are more like old computers were you [TS]

00:23:54   think the Bears in this town but then when you actually get into it it's it's [TS]

00:23:58   actually like unpleasant I had a friend who was in the old cars and he like an [TS]

00:24:02   old Ford Falcon and when we drive around it [TS]

00:24:04   its first you think it's pretty cool but then you get out and like you realize [TS]

00:24:08   you smell like gasoline it might give myself cancer but yeah I'm here and [TS]

00:24:18   you're sitting there in like this [TS]

00:24:19   aluminum can of it's like everything so thin and small compared to modern giant [TS]

00:24:24   boat cars it's it's [TS]

00:24:29   it it's not as good as you remember why I bought when I was when I was growing [TS]

00:24:34   up I was always a single guy and then when the Saturn came out I couldn't [TS]

00:24:39   afford it was $400 that was a ton for console in like 95014 came out and said [TS]

00:24:45   I never got a Saturn and then later like at the end of college years later when [TS]

00:24:50   they were really dirt cheap on ebay I'm finally got my Saturn this is gonna be [TS]

00:24:53   great I bias Adam of the few games and it's just terrible I get such a major [TS]

00:24:59   disappointment and part of that is because the Saturn sucked and so did not [TS]

00:25:06   know who I am part let the Saturn sucks the other part of it was like you know [TS]

00:25:10   it was looking back on this old era of technology where I was hoping it would [TS]

00:25:15   be amazing in modern times in by modern context it wasn't even close I was to be [TS]

00:25:21   a cig I wonder how much of that it's it's obvious topic but the whole [TS]

00:25:29   nintendo's should make iOS games at least somehow get involved with these [TS]

00:25:34   devices are nicer to be so bright and then that he intended guys you know tell [TS]

00:25:40   you how you're wrong [TS]

00:25:42   to the understanding me but I wonder I wonder I never really thought about it [TS]

00:25:47   but the fact that in the end that like any s era and I guess what was the one [TS]

00:25:53   that was more the rival to the Genesis wasn't the NES was it wasn't the worst [TS]

00:25:57   kind of overlap the time many yes [TS]

00:26:00   yet it the Genesis came out a few a couple years before the Super Nintendo [TS]

00:26:04   there was a period of time with the with the NES Nintendo came out and did a few [TS]

00:26:10   things better than it was it was kind of weirdly overlap I was a Genesis Genesis [TS]

00:26:14   yeah me too but that was like that was my first experience of like being a [TS]

00:26:19   fanboy you know like man I like I bought this thing is my cousins but this thing [TS]

00:26:24   and I like them so I bought the same one they bought and I'm thinking I'm cool [TS]

00:26:28   and then like Street Fighter two comes out on Super Nintendo only minimally [TS]

00:26:32   had to defend myself so much yeah it was it was a terrible time anyway the thing [TS]

00:26:41   that really stinks sorry about the original Mac in hindsight is how clearly [TS]

00:26:47   that team that made it got it [TS]

00:26:50   whereby it is still guide Apple to this day which is a complete capitulation if [TS]

00:27:00   you're going to say you know that this metaphor is how the user's prevented [TS]

00:27:05   with the system with this computer [TS]

00:27:07   make it complete right there was no you know like in the early years of windows [TS]

00:27:12   were you booted you really rebooting and das remember used to type win the launch [TS]

00:27:16   Windows that there was nothing like that there was no command line right the [TS]

00:27:21   first thing you saw when you needed the machine up in 1984 which is in in this [TS]

00:27:26   blew people away is instead of seeing like terminal text on the screen as you [TS]

00:27:31   saw a smiling Mac you saw a picture of the computer itself smiling at you while [TS]

00:27:36   you know why you waited four minutes for it to boot up that they totally got it [TS]

00:27:43   and and it's amazing given those ridiculous constraints a hundred and [TS]

00:27:50   twenty eight kilobytes of ran into the only storage being floppy disk write a [TS]

00:27:58   nearly 800 K floppy disks they weren't even double density high density [TS]

00:28:02   whatever they were called it's amazing how much of the stuff they did is still [TS]

00:28:06   around on the Mac today right [TS]

00:28:09   Apple menu top left File Edit View window I think there is a window switch [TS]

00:28:16   between us but it's like the basic idea in the basic idea of how the menu bar [TS]

00:28:20   works you know they got it in 1984 I think you know part of the reason why [TS]

00:28:26   they were able to do that to have this kind of cohesion and and attention to [TS]

00:28:30   detail that is nice polished 1.0 which I'm sure you know of course it wasn't [TS]

00:28:34   perfect but it was it was yes you're right it was a very cohesive nice [TS]

00:28:41   package together [TS]

00:28:43   ur and part of the reason that was possible [TS]

00:28:46   is because at the time the problem set for what a personal computer had to do [TS]

00:28:50   was very very small and and and of course they added a lot to that list [TS]

00:28:56   with with this product but whatever it was it was still a very young simple [TS]

00:29:01   industry and I think you can look at a very clear parallel with the first [TS]

00:29:05   iPhone where they had a hundred and twenty eight megabytes of memory and [TS]

00:29:09   cram everything possible into that nobody thought was possible and you know [TS]

00:29:14   the first iPhone it also added a bunch of things to what phones were expected [TS]

00:29:20   to do but it entered a very young market still a market that Apple was able to to [TS]

00:29:26   help reshape and really drive that reshaping especially at first and so but [TS]

00:29:32   the only reason they were able to do that is because the problem set of [TS]

00:29:36   things smartphones had to do in 2007 was very small and very young and very [TS]

00:29:41   simple relative to where it is today so we're never gonna see another desktop or [TS]

00:29:45   phone operating system or or major new hardware platform that launches with [TS]

00:29:51   that amount of cohesion again these industries are to mature in a league [TS]

00:29:55   we're never going to see that again I do that's a pretty good analogy I think you [TS]

00:30:00   know the original Mac to the original iPhone and then 128 numbers just happy [TS]

00:30:04   coincidence but in both cases the idea and and the the conceptual design of the [TS]

00:30:12   user experience was years ahead of the hardware being capable of truly [TS]

00:30:17   fulfilling it I think the Mac was a lot further behind you know it took a lot [TS]

00:30:25   longer for the hardware to truly catch up with the Mac but even then I think by [TS]

00:30:29   the late eighties it kind of caught up but [TS]

00:30:32   with the iPhone I would say I don't know probably with the iPhone four Runner I [TS]

00:30:41   would say the 3G S with was the first great iPhone and the first two were [TS]

00:30:48   really not bad they they they were they couldn't do as much by by the end of the [TS]

00:30:54   3G you're starting to feel like you know I could really use a faster CPU hear ya [TS]

00:30:57   the 3G S and three Jess's what went to 256 right around I think I think it did [TS]

00:31:05   at least made at least had a much better now it definitely went more RAM yeah ok [TS]

00:31:09   so it had more room at a much faster CPU and that was a massive improvement I [TS]

00:31:14   mean that I would say the three Jess was like was really the first truly awesome [TS]

00:31:19   easy iPhone the didn't have a major performances that the 424 wasn't as [TS]

00:31:25   great as you remember in practice Lee number how how slow the camera was too [TS]

00:31:30   long and after shutters and especially late seem like overtime with software [TS]

00:31:35   update to keep getting worse yet the iPhone 4 camera was very very slow the [TS]

00:31:41   home button had tons of failures and flaws antennagate was was a minor [TS]

00:31:46   problem for some people the proximity sensor was a big problem for a lot of [TS]

00:31:50   people there like the iPhone 4 which is funny cause all the crap forgot for the [TS]

00:31:55   antennagate thing when the proximity sensor and the slow camera and the dying [TS]

00:32:00   home buns were actually way worse I agree with all of that I just thinking [TS]

00:32:06   more in terms of that it's always seemed to me that once the four came out that [TS]

00:32:11   iOS was always sort of it heart it wanted a Retina screen that it was it [TS]

00:32:16   you know that they technically couldn't do it in 2007 but that it it really felt [TS]

00:32:23   like finally the iPhone as a resolution it always because they were so [TS]

00:32:27   just because of the devices are small there was always just like that the time [TS]

00:32:32   rendered in the status bar it was it's so tiny that on the retina devices it's [TS]

00:32:37   really kind of hard to read if you know it's like you kind of have to it helps [TS]

00:32:42   Aug usually have a good idea basically what time it is but you know telling an [TS]

00:32:46   eight across from a zero or something like that it was super super smudgy [TS]

00:32:51   because it was so tiny yeah I guess I don't know why I think I was thinking [TS]

00:32:57   more in terms though to avoid just RAM and CPU speed you know the one thing [TS]

00:33:02   that really stood out to me in hindsight after you know you're too later when we [TS]

00:33:05   had faster iPhones was if I took my old original iPhone out on the wifi not but [TS]

00:33:11   wifi and loaded a web page how long it took to render the page because it [TS]

00:33:16   wasn't the networking it was the actual computation of rendering of you know the [TS]

00:33:23   front page of the New York Times and it would take like 20 30 seconds still way [TS]

00:33:28   better than browsing in the nineties right but it was sort of a throwback to [TS]

00:33:32   that where you are you know you know you gotta forgot how just how complex it is [TS]

00:33:39   surrender a web page on how we used to you know even when you were developing [TS]

00:33:42   websites locally where you weren't even waiting on the network at all that it [TS]

00:33:46   would a relatively complex complex page took a lot of time to render and even [TS]

00:33:53   that we didn't get past that even on desktops until maybe 2006 I mean that [TS]

00:34:00   was like there was a while when I i mean on my first Mac that the PowerBook g4 04 [TS]

00:34:05   I remember having to load the Newegg website was very complex layout tons of [TS]

00:34:11   element on the page that like certain sites ahead very complex layouts would [TS]

00:34:16   slow the browser to a crawl writers and they would they would take they would [TS]

00:34:21   even take like no ten fifteen seconds of like beach balling to render page a very [TS]

00:34:26   common page / tonight because it was like graphically rich intensive but just [TS]

00:34:30   because you know it had so many comments [TS]

00:34:33   and it was rendered hierarchically you know with threatening that it it just [TS]

00:34:38   choked as it as it went down the parse tree I mean if you think about it and [TS]

00:34:43   parsing isn't even the problem the problem is is the incredible amount of [TS]

00:34:48   dynamic layout and flexibility you can achieve now with CSS if you think about [TS]

00:34:54   what like on a computer science level what has to happen to render pay these [TS]

00:35:02   days and it is crazy how much computation goes into that because of [TS]

00:35:08   how advanced our Web languages are how advanced CSS and HTML are now and [TS]

00:35:13   JavaScript which throws everything for a liberal everything changes call time in [TS]

00:35:17   its its crazy how complicated modern websites are to render and our hardware [TS]

00:35:22   now does it so quickly it like we are in such a great Asia computer now where we [TS]

00:35:28   pretty much only ever waiting on the network I agree with them and I feel [TS]

00:35:34   like that somewhere along the line that's where I iOS devices of sort of [TS]

00:35:37   caught up maybe they're not quite there yet but they're very close and and and [TS]

00:35:44   once we once the whole industry has mostly completed the transition to SSDs [TS]

00:35:48   in PCs I think that will that will kinda close that door for a long time that the [TS]

00:35:55   kind of local performance bad days did you notice as his DS are thousands of [TS]

00:36:01   times faster than hard drives and and in the ways that matter like and random [TS]

00:36:04   random access which is hard drives kept getting faster over the years but it was [TS]

00:36:09   mostly in sequential transfers it wasn't really in a random access nearly as much [TS]

00:36:13   and that's what matters a lot more and it doesn't matter you can't they don't [TS]

00:36:16   go to sleep or stop spinning and then you have to wait for the spin back up [TS]

00:36:19   exactly exactly so yeah I I think the SSD turned into the last the last major [TS]

00:36:26   league modern computer performance bottleneck in sight right now and yeah [TS]

00:36:31   I'm sure in India five or 10 years something that we think is commonplace [TS]

00:36:35   today will seem completely archaic and slow but I think the SSD turn this is [TS]

00:36:40   going to carry us for a long time [TS]

00:36:42   me take a break into our first sponsor [TS]

00:36:45   and that's our good friends at lynda.com ly and da dot com lynda.com they've been [TS]

00:36:53   around forever and they have fantastic library of like self teaching courses [TS]

00:37:00   for computer stuff for design stuff in with coverage ranging from beginner [TS]

00:37:07   level to advance their videos include animations and diagrams it easy to find [TS]

00:37:13   what you need what you're interested in what you're looking to learn and when [TS]

00:37:18   you do they just have top quality content over 2,000 high-quality video [TS]

00:37:26   courses right now and you think well there's two thousand of them a bunch of [TS]

00:37:29   them probably junk now it all like it's the fact that they've been doing it for [TS]

00:37:33   so long that this big library of content and they have so many experts but [TS]

00:37:36   everything is made to really high standards [TS]

00:37:40   examples that might interest listeners of the show they have iOS developer [TS]

00:37:44   courses you next for Mac OS 10 users like so if you're out there and you've [TS]

00:37:49   always wanted to learn more about the stuff you can do in terminal they have [TS]

00:37:52   great content with that objective see similar to iOS developer been more just [TS]

00:37:58   how do you learn the language and for the flip side from or design oriented [TS]

00:38:04   stuff user experience design techniques for iOS great stuff like that they have [TS]

00:38:10   web development courses everything parole John Siracusa asp.net PHP MySQL [TS]

00:38:20   JavaScript and everybody's using javascript these days [TS]

00:38:24   pure design stuff Creative Cloud right Photoshop si CE InDesign Cece Premier [TS]

00:38:30   Pro After Effects all of that they've got courses in all of this stuff [TS]

00:38:35   what do you do you go there you pay one low price $25 a month and you get access [TS]

00:38:42   to the entire unlimited library computer your tablet or mobile device [TS]

00:38:50   super high quality stuff total opposite of homemade stuff you find on youtube [TS]

00:38:56   really easy to follow [TS]

00:38:58   really easy to learn its just great stuff I have a great deal for you that [TS]

00:39:03   they're offering to listeners of the show [TS]

00:39:05   here's what you do go to lynda.com / the talk-show ly nba.com / talk show and you [TS]

00:39:16   get a seven day free trial so you could go there use that code you can start [TS]

00:39:22   watching videos that they have for seven days free of charge [TS]

00:39:26   see just how good they are and I would bet that you will sign up attended a [TS]

00:39:32   period so my thanks to lynda.com go check them out and and learn some stuff [TS]

00:39:39   actually there earlier this evening I they they sponsor our show as well and [TS]

00:39:44   so I went to check it out and they was watching this great day on on logic and [TS]

00:39:50   editing the podcast and managing the dynamics compressors and everything it [TS]

00:39:54   was really really good I was I was you know they had like the diagrams and the [TS]

00:39:58   animations in the graphs everything I was very impressed [TS]

00:40:01   talk about like someone has been a they've been around long I remember the [TS]

00:40:05   lynda.com booth at Macworld New York Macworld Expo New York twice a year [TS]

00:40:15   the lynda.com booth was just want just absolutely packed with because it was [TS]

00:40:21   like the late nineties and everybody was a graphic designer [TS]

00:40:26   you know realize they had to learn how to do web design to stay relevant in the [TS]

00:40:30   industry and it was just like gangbusters business of New York [TS]

00:40:35   designers who went to Macworld buying her stuff brake stuff at me in in a few [TS]

00:40:44   more years when PHP finally stops being useful to me on on the web and I have to [TS]

00:40:49   learn anything else I've never done as much as always been sort of hobby for me [TS]

00:40:58   but I wrote my own link shortener the DAF for when you look at during fall [TS]

00:41:09   fireball Twitter account the DAF four-dot us' URLs are all my own little [TS]

00:41:17   homemade system and bring Simmons was asking me about it yesterday and it made [TS]

00:41:24   me think about it and it's one of those things where I forget when I wrote it [TS]

00:41:27   must be like 2008 2009 couple of years now it's quite a few mostly just runs [TS]

00:41:34   but when I wrote it and there's a whole bunch of people like everything I read [TS]

00:41:38   it sort of Goldberg contraption between movable type in this other stand-alone [TS]

00:41:42   thing but at da four-dot USA it's just a little standalone web service that [TS]

00:41:47   doesn't actually create a short URLs it just redirects them to the right URL [TS]

00:41:52   adaran fireball done [TS]

00:41:53   and at the time I thought I wanted to learn Ruby has at least curious about [TS]

00:41:57   Ruby and so I realize rails was overkill for what should be a simple couple [TS]

00:42:03   hundred line thing total and those and other free markets a lot smaller and get [TS]

00:42:11   my model of how programming works better called sinatra [TS]

00:42:14   sinatra that's for Ruby yeah I have heard of it I I assumed it was Python [TS]

00:42:21   but yeah you can tell how how in touch I am with any of these things which is [TS]

00:42:25   really sad I really should know more you know and it's like a simple little thing [TS]

00:42:29   where you you you know you run your little sinatra programming to rate these [TS]

00:42:32   handlers to take the URLs that pattern match the URLs and then whenever it [TS]

00:42:38   matches one of your patterns it then it dispatches to where you tell it to go [TS]

00:42:42   and I had a good enough time doing it and I thought you know it worked well [TS]

00:42:48   enough but then it's like I never did anything else in Sinatra or Ruby and now [TS]

00:42:53   it's like if I wanted to go back and do something with it like I have to start [TS]

00:42:57   all over from scratch I have 50 memory of how it actually works [TS]

00:43:02   right now we're in we're in this kind of terrible adolescent period between major [TS]

00:43:08   web language areas where you know like three or four years ago I would have [TS]

00:43:14   said yeah use PHP Python Ruby no problem you know and I'd say probably use Python [TS]

00:43:20   first Ruby second PHP third and has a PhD program and they were all very [TS]

00:43:27   mature very stable very easy to use nothing na most important they were [TS]

00:43:32   boring you could you could set it up and not have to worry that like the bleeding [TS]

00:43:37   edge beta version of the server that you set it up with is out of date in two [TS]

00:43:41   weeks and you know you set it up with the intention of touching every four [TS]

00:43:44   years and so that's kind of incompatible with that but now if you if you would [TS]

00:43:50   learn when those languages today it's kind of like well you know that kinda [TS]

00:43:54   like learning C++ today that you can do it and there are jobs out there for it [TS]

00:43:58   but you're kind of learning the past and you know that that might get a date [TS]

00:44:03   pretty soon [TS]

00:44:04   and so now I call the new cool stuff like node and some of the other cool [TS]

00:44:09   stuff going on it you could tell this is the next generation progressing as as we [TS]

00:44:16   speak and you could tell I in five years [TS]

00:44:21   telling people in all likelihood yes you should learn node and is now it really [TS]

00:44:25   easy and stable jobs for it makes me feel ya I'd like but between now and [TS]

00:44:32   then it's like that it's all these new things are still very very young their [TS]

00:44:36   tools a very young they're running the stupid beta everything and it changes [TS]

00:44:39   every two weeks and there's new frameworks as a billion frameworks to [TS]

00:44:43   choose from you don't know which ones gonna quote win a format war like you [TS]

00:44:46   don't know what you should be investing your time and and and and you could you [TS]

00:44:51   know it's it's easy to say especially especially for the younger programmers [TS]

00:44:56   like if you're just going to college so it's easy to learn all of them who cares [TS]

00:44:59   but there is a lot of value in mastering something and like learning the deaths [TS]

00:45:04   every detail of a language in a framework to really be very advanced in [TS]

00:45:10   that thing and so right now if you want to start down that path of mastering [TS]

00:45:14   something there is no clear choice of what that should be I think it's [TS]

00:45:19   interesting to that web programming has changed a lot more in a shorter period [TS]

00:45:27   of time than native desktop and then my desktop I mean PC or mobile but native [TS]

00:45:33   app development because native apps in the old days be written in C or an [TS]

00:45:40   American was passing out but Pascal Morency words you know conceptually very [TS]

00:45:45   very similar where you could speak one you'd at least understand the code of [TS]

00:45:48   the other [TS]

00:45:49   ur and then when everything went object oriented C++ one out and people rode on [TS]

00:45:57   a Mac power plant was the C++ framework that a lot of apps use it was funny [TS]

00:46:07   because it can even come from Apple it came from third-party Metro works that [TS]

00:46:11   made the top compiler which is tells you it's another sign of how bad a shape [TS]

00:46:14   apples in the nineties where they sort of lost control of the to torture by on [TS]

00:46:22   merits you know that they got beaten out by Bio Products third-party product that [TS]

00:46:26   was just better than what they had in the wind 16 and when I don't know when [TS]

00:46:31   sixteen was object oriented but when 32 is a lot of C++ right yeah it's it's [TS]

00:46:39   weird windows that would only see I was in C++ it was CEO AP I have always been [TS]

00:46:45   kind of a disaster because Microsoft would always come out like every three [TS]

00:46:50   years they would change what the new cool thing is that you're supposed to [TS]

00:46:53   use but then they themselves are never use it and so was it and I kept changing [TS]

00:46:59   because no one ever caught on and it was always a disaster and then you know [TS]

00:47:03   there's job which never got bitten on the Mac but I don't know how much [TS]

00:47:07   windows software was written on may be commercially not much but in the [TS]

00:47:10   enterprise certainly a lot i think i think is is and always has been WAY [TS]

00:47:17   bigger on servers then anywhere and desktop and mobile sources I mean back [TS]

00:47:23   in the early days of terrible cell phones the the java mobile stuff and [TS]

00:47:28   brew which i think was based on job that was that had some foothold but not [TS]

00:47:34   strong you know and and next steps / Coco you know is not that it's unchanged [TS]

00:47:41   since 1989 but it's still Objective C and the language has added features over [TS]

00:47:47   time but [TS]

00:47:48   whatever ass like it to be too BC when I mean like an old-school next developer I [TS]

00:47:53   have asked them you know if you time travel back to like your nineteen ninety [TS]

00:47:58   self who was writing then brand-new next platform and showed them code from an [TS]

00:48:05   iPhone app would would it be four million be there always say yes [TS]

00:48:08   there'd be a couple of things it be like a head-scratcher but for the most part [TS]

00:48:12   it would be like wow this is really cool them you know futures trade on this [TS]

00:48:15   platform that it it was clearly the same sort of Philosophy in mind set to the [TS]

00:48:20   API's to fight that whereas web programming has changed so much I mean I [TS]

00:48:26   remember writing my first CGI program I wrote in C [TS]

00:48:30   compiling CGI's in late 1995 and then pearl was really took off just because [TS]

00:48:36   you don't have to compile code you could just save a text file and execute but it [TS]

00:48:42   went from CGI PHP which was wildly different maybe not linguistically but [TS]

00:48:47   conceptually it was read of actual executable code in the pages that they [TS]

00:48:52   had just died I think it's undergone you know told all totally unfamiliar to what [TS]

00:49:01   you knew before changes every 34 years I think part of it and certainly you know [TS]

00:49:09   you're you're right but you know you can have your PHP programmer and you look at [TS]

00:49:13   Python Ruby you can pretty much figure out what's going on like it's not it's [TS]

00:49:18   not so radically different it's just different function names a few different [TS]

00:49:22   syntax things a few different capabilities but not massively so [TS]

00:49:27   especially pipe yet [TS]

00:49:30   famously I mean it's even like part of the design behind it is that it's [TS]

00:49:34   supposed to look like [TS]

00:49:36   pseudocode exactly but if you you know I think I think we're where things are [TS]

00:49:42   very clearly going partly out of just advancement and partly out of harbor [TS]

00:49:46   necessity where things are very clearly going as concurrency and all the modern [TS]

00:49:52   languages we have for web programming so far the easiest the big established ones [TS]

00:49:57   have not been great deal with concurrency and its way worse in PHP [TS]

00:50:02   others so and I said I fully admit that it because it's based PC basically says [TS]

00:50:07   what's concurrency we don't support that but when you're designing a language for [TS]

00:50:13   a hardware environment where processor speeds have pretty much stopped getting [TS]

00:50:20   faster you know that they're making incremental improvements but it's no [TS]

00:50:23   longer a doubling in single core performance not even close right I mean [TS]

00:50:27   look at the Mac Pro believe we've improved the encore performance and my [TS]

00:50:30   10% in three years and it's terrible so and he's like the best CPU has to offer [TS]

00:50:36   so you know the design of a language changes dramatically once concurrency at [TS]

00:50:44   the hardware level is a big thing that has to be considered from the beginning [TS]

00:50:48   and not just something you can add weight or something something that only [TS]

00:50:50   the advances have to do this and this is not something that every a pass to do [TS]

00:50:53   and apples on a very good job adding it to the desktop and mobile stuff with [TS]

00:51:00   with the GCD it's been awesome he said he is a fantastic API and there's [TS]

00:51:05   there's still some some room to to go on that in regards to getting Coco apps [TS]

00:51:12   making making them make better use of multiple threads multiple cores but she [TS]

00:51:19   goes a long way it's really good [TS]

00:51:21   whereas in the web world we're still in the very early days of the transition [TS]

00:51:25   very very early and most of all I'm just don't do it well and so that's going to [TS]

00:51:29   be the thing where when you make a major shift like for me to learn something [TS]

00:51:35   that's not PHP that's what's gonna do it it's not some syntactical sugar that [TS]

00:51:39   ruby has they don't care about its gonna be great concurrent his support and you [TS]

00:51:44   can have to sign language like that with that in mind from beginning yeah it's I [TS]

00:51:51   think it's fundamentally just that there's a deer solving a different [TS]

00:51:54   problem that need the prob the native code is always had the dark their eyes [TS]

00:51:58   on the right price which is getting this thing to run as well as possible on this [TS]

00:52:02   machine for this user right [TS]

00:52:06   whereas the problem that web software is trying to solve is very different and [TS]

00:52:10   it's not just concurrency in the sense of that's the way it tells you know that [TS]

00:52:15   if you want to take advantage of gotta be able to go across quarters because [TS]

00:52:21   the you know the clock like you said the clock speed isn't getting faster and [TS]

00:52:24   more but really it's like that you wanna wrap if it gets popular to be able to [TS]

00:52:29   handle the most people with the least hardware exactly and yeah hardware is [TS]

00:52:36   very cheap these days but when you start talking about quote web-scale things get [TS]

00:52:42   expensive pretty quickly if you have if you have an app on the App Store that [TS]

00:52:46   gets you know couple downloads a day you're not gonna notice on your servers [TS]

00:52:50   any kind of major cause problems but if you if you run something that gets [TS]

00:52:54   popular then you're gonna start having to spend thousands of dollars a month on [TS]

00:52:59   servers and that's going to add up quickly answered this stuff really [TS]

00:53:03   starts to matter actually you're probably thinking about recently on with [TS]

00:53:11   what I was an iPhone app you might have that my stuff soon yeah I don't even [TS]

00:53:17   want to be secretive about it but but I just don't want to speak on behalf of [TS]

00:53:24   bread but yeah definitely we've given a lot of thought in terms of how how [TS]

00:53:30   that's going to work I'm a changed everything especially before I'm facing [TS]

00:53:35   the costly because I haven't launched this thing yet and I have no clue what [TS]

00:53:41   might cause you're gonna be I have absolutely no clue I have a server [TS]

00:53:45   running for like six months in a test environment but I have no idea when they [TS]

00:53:50   release it how popular is going to be and what is going to actually use on the [TS]

00:53:54   servers but it's going to matter a lot and and you have you have installed a so [TS]

00:53:59   far so you know with Vesper you know when we have sex many users probably you [TS]

00:54:05   know X percent of them are going to enable sync in the first place and then [TS]

00:54:08   we can kind of expect this this fall you well here's a good example of what we [TS]

00:54:12   don't know just a simple question [TS]

00:54:15   is what how many how many notes that Vesper users use have photos attached [TS]

00:54:21   because that's actually going to depending on the answer to that would [TS]

00:54:25   significantly increase our storage right because the neck the notes that are [TS]

00:54:31   mostly text even if if let's just say for example we came out with a Mac [TS]

00:54:37   version where you would be even more easily be able to type longer notes text [TS]

00:54:43   is written it compresses so its taxes not going to be a storage problem but [TS]

00:54:49   photos could be you know because a photo is at least a megabyte or so just try to [TS]

00:54:57   ballpark number could be a huge difference depending you know if that's [TS]

00:55:01   where users store a lot of photos we don't know you know me by now once we [TS]

00:55:06   have sinking yeah and you know there's also there is no other bottlenecks are [TS]

00:55:13   going to be you know like I've written this entire sink method that I have no [TS]

00:55:22   idea if it's a terrible idea or not like I think I think it's reasonably decent [TS]

00:55:26   but I can point to like it like the main section but you know I feel alot of [TS]

00:55:31   database records to make this happened and maybe that's gonna bite me it's I [TS]

00:55:35   don't know it is a very different development cycle is Brent's doing all [TS]

00:55:42   the development and it's it's funny because it's just a we've been talking [TS]

00:55:46   about like writing actual iPhone brent was doing what he's been doing for the [TS]

00:55:51   last twelve thirteen years or so which is writing you know Coco code and you [TS]

00:55:58   know obviously the API's on I was seven or a lot different than the API's for [TS]

00:56:02   Mac OS 10 points to whatever was out when [TS]

00:56:06   Newswires shipped but it's a he feels like he's on it on that degree he's on a [TS]

00:56:12   continuum and he's doing the same thing but just staying on the leading edge [TS]

00:56:15   over and over again whereas the the backend code for the sync server is like [TS]

00:56:21   nothing he's ever written before not that he hasn't written back in code [TS]

00:56:25   before it's just that it changes often oh yeah and and again I can not be able [TS]

00:56:31   to predict what kind of usage and what kind of low to my kind of cost you're [TS]

00:56:36   gonna see from that makes it very very stressful and when you launch it you [TS]

00:56:45   know it possible if you have to buy your own hardware it's even worse where you [TS]

00:56:50   know you might launch with one server and and realize you need five or you [TS]

00:56:55   might lunch with five and realize you need half of one and nobody likes your [TS]

00:57:00   app so it's very very hardly the stuff is launching launching a modern AB / [TS]

00:57:08   service and I think that line is is pretty safely blurred these days it's [TS]

00:57:13   way more complicated than just making one that has to run on one kind of phone [TS]

00:57:19   and I said yeah and it's a mystery to because you're writing native code for a [TS]

00:57:27   device as you go you get to a certain point there still like a scaffolding [TS]

00:57:31   period where like there's nothing to even see and then it got to a point [TS]

00:57:35   where brent could share with me and Dave and we could try it and then I got a [TS]

00:57:40   daily basis we could you know critique certain things we could ignore certain [TS]

00:57:45   things that we knew where he just hadn't gotten to yet but you can kind of see it [TS]

00:57:49   coming together and you know you know as it progresses you see what this is [TS]

00:57:53   definitely going to work this is gonna work that's not gonna work look this [TS]

00:57:56   idea we had to do this for you swipe left or right it doesn't it at this time [TS]

00:58:01   it's confusing and then you backed out whereas when you're wondering about [TS]

00:58:05   scale you know you don't know until you unleash the hounds [TS]

00:58:10   thats I'm it's like we have to have this fixed 10 minutes ago like you there's no [TS]

00:58:15   time like once you launch if you're having a scheduling problem especially [TS]

00:58:18   if your problem is you to scale up if that's your problem then you don't have [TS]

00:58:24   a lot of time to like a let's rewrite this entire sync engine to work this [TS]

00:58:29   completely different way or let's swap out this entire back and component [TS]

00:58:33   because it turns out you know we need to use a three-year ready to get off s3 or [TS]

00:58:37   something like that you know there's these big decisions are much harder to [TS]

00:58:41   do after you've launched but you don't know that you have to do until after [TS]

00:58:44   you've launched its kinda screwed either way you can have to deal with this [TS]

00:58:48   launch might be bumpy I'm facing never actually ship over guys how close you [TS]

00:58:55   gettin I'm almost ready for a beta I am i I was going through this every talk [TS]

00:59:02   solicitor emailing right now please don't I yeah I have my god I've had so [TS]

00:59:10   many and it's very it's very flattering million requests [TS]

00:59:13   problem is I have a hundred UDID sluts writing project for your own devices [TS]

00:59:19   yeah and so yeah like I I'm probably not gonna make the beta and you know if I [TS]

00:59:25   want to do a beta before it actually shifted in the store you know if [TS]

00:59:29   everyone do that for press people have to leave room for them so there goes [TS]

00:59:34   like another 10 slots and we ran out of a branch we we forget what we're going [TS]

00:59:40   to do but we it's almost like I like what I said like when I had a LCD with a [TS]

00:59:44   40 megabyte hard drive and I spend half my time [TS]

00:59:46   clear things up like us trying to clear up device IDs like you delete them and [TS]

00:59:53   they actually got deleted a year later right where you can only do your trash [TS]

00:59:58   once a year [TS]

01:00:00   think carefully the early wanna do it now I don't think people realize that [TS]

01:00:05   but it is crazy every I think a lot of people know there's a hundred device [TS]

01:00:08   limit to developer beta you do know device IDs I don't know a lot of people [TS]

01:00:14   realize though that only gets reset 12 year [TS]

01:00:17   yeah and and it's the rules of Canada it's very unclear least used to be it's [TS]

01:00:23   very unclear as to when that what happened to a well I'll get I get [TS]

01:00:28   another you know sixty devices back sometime around this two-month period I [TS]

01:00:34   forget exactly what data will happen on there's nowhere to see that and it's far [TS]

01:00:38   better now but but it's still if you if you delete a device that doesn't make [TS]

01:00:43   room for somebody else it might in the future [TS]

01:00:46   at the moment it doesn't use device it's it's remark [TS]

01:00:50   it's a real problem and it's like something that like iOS developers [TS]

01:00:53   amongst themselves never shut up about because it never it's never ending his [TS]

01:01:00   iPad count Count across the limit [TS]

01:01:04   and most people who beta test at least at least the ones we have are people who [TS]

01:01:09   are just like me and you get a new iPhone every year every time there's a [TS]

01:01:13   new iPhone or iPad launch at this massive pile of emails from test flight [TS]

01:01:16   saying all these people to leave the device was implanted device and you get [TS]

01:01:19   an update your records and Bernama slots some more right hand so much easier like [TS]

01:01:24   forever development of ingesting why don't why doesn't apple just tired to [TS]

01:01:29   Apple IDs say a hundred Apple IDs instead of a hundred rate that would be [TS]

01:01:34   amazing that alone would would would get me to shut up about it because it would [TS]

01:01:39   solve the problem [TS]

01:01:41   totally effectively you get it really more like a limit of 40 people if [TS]

01:01:49   they're if most of them are gonna get a new iPhone every year and then if you're [TS]

01:01:52   going to do universal with iPhone and iPad you're talking about sort of like [TS]

01:01:55   25 30 at the tops if they're gonna go through both an iPad and iPhone and [TS]

01:02:01   maybe a new iPhone let alone you know me I go through I have two new iPads and no [TS]

01:02:06   one knew I patty year and the new iPhone [TS]

01:02:10   even even for the test I'm beta testing an app now for iPad and my primary iPad [TS]

01:02:16   is a mini so I gave him that you the idea that I got the app me you know I [TS]

01:02:21   actually would like more screen space for this app I wish I could test it on [TS]

01:02:24   my wife's error but I can't go out and give them that you dat and I'm not going [TS]

01:02:29   to the bathroom so please burn another one so you know but like I like none of [TS]

01:02:34   this is the best testing could be none of this is set up for good quality easy [TS]

01:02:40   interaction at all it's it's all incredibly rudimentary and hostile and [TS]

01:02:48   it's a lot of ways and iOS development has gotten better over the years in [TS]

01:02:52   terms of managing some of that stuff and stuff but the limit the device limited [TS]

01:02:59   hasn't changed at all and it's it's more of a problem now than it was when it [TS]

01:03:03   happened because [TS]

01:03:05   because of the iPad and I think it's totally reasonable that you do you know [TS]

01:03:10   if if a tester has both an iPad air in an iPad Mini you'd want them using both [TS]

01:03:15   to make sure everything you know is sized comfortably for both you know if [TS]

01:03:19   it's a really good tester make them on an iPad 3 be able to run only on the [TS]

01:03:25   edge case devices that might show different problems when he ran on [TS]

01:03:29   written the device and I read the device you know if you if you're gonna have [TS]

01:03:33   somebody actively testing beyond just like I let me try out the app can I want [TS]

01:03:37   to be cool and get it get it in time you want them to test it on many different [TS]

01:03:42   devices [TS]

01:03:43   me take a break here and thank are stuck up second sponsor what a great service [TS]

01:03:50   this is back place love these guys [TS]

01:03:53   unlimited on throttled back up for your Mac $5 have an iOS app that lets you [TS]

01:04:02   access and share any of your files that have been backed up for new Mac you can [TS]

01:04:06   restore one file at a time if there's one thing that's gone bad corrupted or [TS]

01:04:11   you've erased adore you [TS]

01:04:13   edited such a machine doesn't get it back you can restore one follow time or [TS]

01:04:22   you could restore everything you can use the Website access your files back blaze [TS]

01:04:30   was founded and this is super key to the thing it was founded by Acts Apple [TS]

01:04:35   engineers it's not some kind of like Windows service and then there's also a [TS]

01:04:38   Mac Lion and it all feels kind of weird and gross it looks and feels like [TS]

01:04:43   something that should have you know arguably maybe even should come from [TS]

01:04:46   Apple it's so good and it feels totally right front only native on mac including [TS]

01:04:53   maverick support there's no add-ons there's no gimmicks is no additional [TS]

01:04:58   charges it's not a good thing where you go there and there's something for $5 a [TS]

01:05:03   month but to make it work the way you want it to you really ought to pay $25 a [TS]

01:05:07   month or something like that [TS]

01:05:08   know you pay $5 per month [TS]

01:05:11   you get unlimited backup we were just talking earlier about how people [TS]

01:05:16   couldn't back up in the old this but there's so many people who don't back up [TS]

01:05:20   now if you're not using something that backs up your whole tribe you're not [TS]

01:05:23   your whole match your not because it eventually your drives gonna [TS]

01:05:29   $5 a month you will sleep so much better knowing that you've got back please [TS]

01:05:34   backing up all your data it's like the best $5 a month you can spend what do [TS]

01:05:40   you do find out more I you know how do they know you're coming here is the [TS]

01:05:44   track willing www.pakheaven.com / daring fire opal it's not the talk show its def [TS]

01:05:54   / during fireball at a link that they're tying into a decade or something like [TS]

01:06:02   that or during fireball sponsorship use that URL and don't know you're coming [TS]

01:06:09   from the show and if you haven't tried it yet you're not I can recommend this [TS]

01:06:14   service [TS]

01:06:15   wholeheartedly I wish I could buy it for all of you because it makes the world a [TS]

01:06:20   better place when iMac is being backed up to back please get some much needed [TS]

01:06:28   maybe I do get a lot of people gonna take you up on the way no serious about [TS]

01:06:35   buying $45 a month by yourself it's so cheap that ridiculous I would I i mean [TS]

01:06:43   that sincerely not just because they're sponsoring [TS]

01:06:46   the show I i $5 a month for back please [TS]

01:06:49   is is easily the best I can imagine how you get more for your money for $5 I [TS]

01:06:54   can't imagine it's great you know and I I've used for years my computer computer [TS]

01:07:01   I have many I think I have three terabytes of total data in there between [TS]

01:07:06   our computers it's like terabytes and you know you have time machine locally [TS]

01:07:12   and definitely do that for that we have like you know fast whole drive recovery [TS]

01:07:16   time machine locally and then the other [TS]

01:07:19   the question as well machine my only backup then what happens if either [TS]

01:07:25   there's some bug and I gets corrupted or I'm sure everyone has ever used time [TS]

01:07:31   machine has had a problem where sometimes Time Machine kind of flakes [TS]

01:07:34   out and decides that it can backup your disc anymore they keep saying that the [TS]

01:07:37   space even though it does the solution often is your time machine drive and [TS]

01:07:43   start over but then you create this window during which you have a backup [TS]

01:07:46   and like what if your hard drive dies during that window then you're screwed [TS]

01:07:50   Ryan Murphy's Law will tell you that your machine is a lot more likely to die [TS]

01:07:55   in that way you know your hard drive like well yeah you're all of a sudden [TS]

01:07:59   you're your hard drive it's been gently used every day are now asking it to read [TS]

01:08:03   its entire content straight through so that's gonna have a lot of activity and [TS]

01:08:07   maybe that will accelerate and there's the whole off-site issue right now [TS]

01:08:10   you've got a backup that is not in your house and that means your house gets [TS]

01:08:14   robbed there's a fire power surge right I years ago we had a previous apartment [TS]

01:08:20   we had a bedroom where there was like a water leak above the ceiling and a big [TS]

01:08:25   part of the ceiling [TS]

01:08:26   you know fell through and water came dripping down and there were many [TS]

01:08:31   computers underneath but first thing I thought when I saw it when you know we [TS]

01:08:35   realize what happened is [TS]

01:08:37   it was a perfectly logical place to put a desk and a computer in that better if [TS]

01:08:42   we just didn't have the computer computers in their room but if we had [TS]

01:08:45   put computers in that room it would have been right over the where the computer [TS]

01:08:48   when I mean if you have a combination of a local drive for fast easy recovered a [TS]

01:08:54   time machine and then a cloud backup service that that's a fantastic [TS]

01:08:58   combination look pretty much any condition and I have tried multiple [TS]

01:09:03   cloud backup services and back plz of the one that I keep it off site is key [TS]

01:09:09   because that's that's what makes you sleep makes me sleep where they could [TS]

01:09:15   happen you know [TS]

01:09:16   forget your keys are locked out of your house while back please you could just [TS]

01:09:21   moved to a new house burn down the old one [TS]

01:09:25   what else is going on well as in the news [TS]

01:09:32   earnings crap but I don't care do you [TS]

01:09:35   really starting to bore me feel like because they've gotten bigger it's [TS]

01:09:41   learning stuff is boring and it's worth I took a look and just to make sure [TS]

01:09:46   there weren't any surprises and there weren't so you know I'm pretty much done [TS]

01:09:52   why I think the earnings earnings were briefly newsworthy during that like two [TS]

01:09:59   or three year period where they were growing insanely right [TS]

01:10:02   years ago yeah it really was because it was just phenomenal twenty-something [TS]

01:10:06   thirty-something right forty-something percent growth in recent years in there [TS]

01:10:10   were there was like 50 percent year over your iPhone chairs cell growth but even [TS]

01:10:18   then even during those years where the earnings numbers themselves works were [TS]

01:10:22   very exciting even then the resulting news of that happening was like you know [TS]

01:10:27   be great news [TS]

01:10:28   like it really wasn't that interesting only the top Apple watchers really give [TS]

01:10:33   a crap about that over the top finance people really give a crap about that [TS]

01:10:36   even during the exciting finance times now we're entering a period where [TS]

01:10:40   Apple's fans are much less interesting because they're just you aren't having [TS]

01:10:43   those massive respect anymore now it's more incremental and and so it's even [TS]

01:10:49   less exciting to people just following the news [TS]

01:10:52   yeah I think so too I guess there's a little bit of news they came out it's [TS]

01:10:57   that Apple at least to some degree confirmed that the five Si was a little [TS]

01:11:04   bit of a disappointment and that the 5s was a little bit more popular than they [TS]

01:11:08   expected that they they're they're predicted mix was a little bit more [TS]

01:11:15   balance and that the actual demand was a lot heavier in favor of the 5s right [TS]

01:11:20   that it's like the news there is this phone that none of you care about turns [TS]

01:11:26   out no one else really care that much about either well but the thing is I [TS]

01:11:31   don't think it's worth writing off the five see at all and I think I saw some [TS]

01:11:34   people on Twitter saying it's clearly a flop etcetera etcetera to me and it's [TS]

01:11:39   not a flood warning it's all yeah it is it is boring and it's all written from [TS]

01:11:44   the perspective that it's it's more of a change that really is from previous [TS]

01:11:50   years where they sold the last year's top of the line iPhone and $100 less cuz [TS]

01:11:57   that's what it is it's the iPhone $500 less but it also has a different has a [TS]

01:12:02   plastic case instead of a mental case but it you know it every every other way [TS]

01:12:07   it's exactly an iPhone which is exactly what Apple has done ever since the 3G s [TS]

01:12:15   when did you first start moving them down when I believe it was 3G s right [TS]

01:12:19   that we came out three just became a three just came out they kept the 3G [TS]

01:12:24   well did they keep the 3G [TS]

01:12:26   was one of them was you the 3G or 3G s but ever since they've done that and I [TS]

01:12:31   think the mix has always been you know in the quarter of the new iPhone comes [TS]

01:12:37   out heavily in favor of the new because all of the enthusiasts who want a new [TS]

01:12:41   iPhone when its new get it then [TS]

01:12:44   if you're going to get a new iPhone it doesn't make any sense to buy it other [TS]

01:12:47   than if you really care about the the device it doesn't make any sense to buy [TS]

01:12:52   it except when it first comes out because you know you're gonna get a new [TS]

01:12:57   one every year white why wait and then the next three quarters after that the [TS]

01:13:03   balance comes down you know and and that's measured by active set average [TS]

01:13:09   selling price the average selling prices always way higher in the quarter when [TS]

01:13:14   the new one comes out and then it goes down the next three until the next one [TS]

01:13:18   comes so the next three quarters or when the five see is supposed to sell better [TS]

01:13:22   because that's when the people buying iPhones or more you know just people [TS]

01:13:28   regular people whose I guess I'll buy an iPhone I think the most interesting part [TS]

01:13:33   of the most since I think we can get from the five see probably not selling [TS]

01:13:40   any better than the previous quote old iPhones is that people weren't really [TS]

01:13:46   fooled like the five see seem like an attempt by Apple to make the old iPhone [TS]

01:13:51   cooler than just it being the old iPhone and it they tried to you know put the [TS]

01:13:59   iPhone a new suit and call another new model when in reality the public was not [TS]

01:14:04   fooled the public knew that this is not really the new one the public knew what [TS]

01:14:08   the new one was way beyond nerves this went this you know this when it's in [TS]

01:14:14   regular people regular people knew that the new iPhone had the fingerprint [TS]

01:14:18   sensor and was this cool new still metal one and this plastic one was not the new [TS]

01:14:23   iPhone and so they weren't fooled ik wasn't it continued selling as a [TS]

01:14:30   lower-end model but very few people I think bought one as you know thinking [TS]

01:14:37   they're getting the new [TS]

01:14:40   clearly some people were remember somebody telling me that they were in [TS]

01:14:44   like a coffee shop in there that guy in front of them waiting in line [TS]

01:14:47   guy was like telling a girl who was standing next to he had a five see and [TS]

01:14:52   he was like yeah don't be a dummy its exact same thing and $100 cheaper you [TS]

01:14:57   know he was acting like he was like attacking you know he's actually wrong [TS]

01:15:01   it is $100 cheaper but it's not the exact same [TS]

01:15:05   and and you know i i think we nerds tend to assume that regular buyers are less [TS]

01:15:13   savvy than they really are and you know there's there are people like that [TS]

01:15:17   certainly but I think the numbers speak for themselves that at least in the [TS]

01:15:22   relatively high end market that all iPhone sittin relative to all phones [TS]

01:15:26   globally you know this is still a fairly high end segments within a high-end [TS]

01:15:32   segment overall people were not fooled in a major way [TS]

01:15:35   overall people still know what the new iPhone is and they still want the new [TS]

01:15:41   one if they if they ever wanted to do in the past days they still want what's [TS]

01:15:45   really the new one this time and you know and if they were people who bought [TS]

01:15:50   the five see more and people who buy the five see probably would have also bought [TS]

01:15:56   the five if they kept at around you know as the old phone this year when asked if [TS]

01:16:03   he'd lean and mean to me the most is the numbers don't really mattered that the [TS]

01:16:06   dollar's don't matter that much you know revenues a little profits were flat as [TS]

01:16:14   margins are down a little bit [TS]

01:16:16   but still you know compared to all of its competitors are would-be competitors [TS]

01:16:21   way higher margins think now that Samsung had kind of a weak quarter that [TS]

01:16:28   all the analysts are going to have to make small phones no I don't think so we [TS]

01:16:35   should save that I did save them for the next show a big screen phone because I [TS]

01:16:42   think that's a long topic but I don't think the endless gonna say that I think [TS]

01:16:47   that everybody has it in their head that Apple needs to make a big phone but yet [TS]

01:16:53   never it never has occurred and they've never said it to me now that you know [TS]

01:16:57   Samsung had a bomb quarter but all the other Android makers who have been [TS]

01:17:01   losing money nobody's ever said well why don't they do you know make a phone like [TS]

01:17:05   the iPhone since the iPhone is the most profitable and best single best-selling [TS]

01:17:11   smartphone on the market do you think Samsung can innovate any more [TS]

01:17:15   information is dead I don't know how bad was there quarter I didn't see the [TS]

01:17:25   details of it I was I mean I don't think it was like a single-digit percentage [TS]

01:17:30   decline or something like that it wasn't it wasn't like a major problem but it [TS]

01:17:34   was like it was their first down quarter in years [TS]

01:17:37   you know and I don't know just it's funny i mean i i always I don't take the [TS]

01:17:42   news about Samsung and Apple too seriously because it's to me it's just [TS]

01:17:47   humorous it watching everybody fall over themselves trying to make terrible you [TS]

01:17:53   know fake analyst predictions and watching everyone try to be an analyst [TS]

01:17:56   and watching even half of the real analysts make terrible predictions and [TS]

01:18:02   transl company I mean this is like this is like half your business writers like [TS]

01:18:06   telling you know seeing all these people who think they know what these big tech [TS]

01:18:12   companies should do because they're reading the same news everybody else [TS]

01:18:16   the basic problem though is it Samsung and Apple of both run into its with [TS]

01:18:20   phones is that [TS]

01:18:22   not that we've run out of that they've run out of new customers but they're [TS]

01:18:26   getting pretty close to running out where there's not this huge untapped [TS]

01:18:31   market of people who a might be interested in a 56 $700 smartphone and [TS]

01:18:39   be actually have five six hundred dollars to spend on a smartphone right [TS]

01:18:47   its peak oil it's like we've we're we're slowing down the rate at which these [TS]

01:18:52   companies can find new customers that are profitable and and you know and they [TS]

01:18:58   can reach with good economics and good products you know there's always gonna [TS]

01:19:02   be this is massive amount of people in the world who are very willing to buy [TS]

01:19:07   these phones if they can pay a lot less for them because they can't pay more and [TS]

01:19:11   that's always going to exist but you know you're not going to see these [TS]

01:19:15   massive profit rises from companies try to address market that have very very [TS]

01:19:19   thin margins and and you know big volumes no profit that's always gonna be [TS]

01:19:24   a challenge and so I think we've reached a peak brick smartphone customers if [TS]

01:19:30   that makes any sense at all [TS]

01:19:31   yeah and not again it's like you said with peak oil where oil production still [TS]

01:19:36   goes up but it's like it's like it it's hard enough to reach it that it's the [TS]

01:19:42   go-go days are over [TS]

01:19:44   exact there's no way to get double-digit especially high double-digit growth [TS]

01:19:49   anymore cuz its people too many of Mari have the phones are into Europe's great [TS]

01:19:56   cycles other thing I saw mentioned [TS]

01:19:58   was that you S iPhone sales were actually down year over year it was it [TS]

01:20:04   was made up the the overall six or seven percent growth was made up outside the [TS]

01:20:09   us- and that Tim Cook attributed it to carrier changes which is more or less [TS]

01:20:15   basically that all the major us' carriers now make you wait the full 24 [TS]

01:20:20   months of your contract before they'll up after you upgrade pricing yet that [TS]

01:20:27   has to her [TS]

01:20:29   yeah but like i think is that now but now that they're all there it'll it'll [TS]

01:20:34   work out going forward because everybody's on the same cycle and [TS]

01:20:38   they'll be upgrading every two years although I'm not sure that that actually [TS]

01:20:42   makes sense because if I think the argument against that was that people [TS]

01:20:44   used to a lot of people more people were upgrading quicker than 24 months whether [TS]

01:20:51   it was every 12 months when the phones came out or like eighteen months or [TS]

01:20:55   something like that I think at least in the USA for a while the average was 18 [TS]

01:21:01   months has a lot of people would upgrade early cuz you do you get either a half [TS]

01:21:04   or full subsidy even at eighteen months they would just cannot tell you they [TS]

01:21:08   would never happen to you yet because they want to keep going but you can get [TS]

01:21:12   an earlier a lot of people also lose or break or dropped her phone in the toilet [TS]

01:21:16   and so they have to get new ones [TS]

01:21:17   earlier and so you know a lot of times the policies would allow a bit of a [TS]

01:21:22   discount before then and yet now the cares of tighten those down so the [TS]

01:21:26   average used to be 18 months and now I'm going to get its gonna go up by a few [TS]

01:21:30   yeah I think definitely but that's only with no citations there's evidence that [TS]

01:21:38   could be completely wrong could have been thirteen months it could have been [TS]

01:21:40   just like in Ohio or something I have no idea I keep my notes as well yeah I [TS]

01:21:46   think the average selling price for an iPhone this past quarter was $637 in the [TS]

01:21:52   average selling price for an iPad was somewhere else [TS]

01:21:56   which is interesting in the context of the show I did last week with multiple [TS]

01:22:01   we're talking about iPad camera and how it's everybody's you know not everybody [TS]

01:22:08   but so many people are using their iPads as as a major camera or their their [TS]

01:22:13   favorite camera you know that's the kid that's what they take out on vacation to [TS]

01:22:17   take snapshots and that I wish I hope that Apple can somehow managed to get [TS]

01:22:24   the top of the line camera from the iPhone into the iPad either this year or [TS]

01:22:30   next year but maybe they can't because only the iPhone which sells at a [TS]

01:22:38   significantly higher price right if it's 402 637 that's like one point over 1.5 [TS]

01:22:48   times the average price so there's a lot more room in the average price of an [TS]

01:22:54   iPhone especially the high-end models which are above the average selling [TS]

01:22:58   price the five that there's a lot more room to put a leading-edge technology [TS]

01:23:05   camera in there then on the iPad oh yeah and in you know the difference in these [TS]

01:23:10   sensors it might be like either $25 or $45 for the camera thing but you know [TS]

01:23:17   you would think they should just put that in the iPad cuz they have all their [TS]

01:23:20   room but you know all these component differences at up pretty quickly and [TS]

01:23:25   disorder affecting that margin number and you'll see any didn't didn't the [TS]

01:23:31   stock take a hit from today's results of any 8 percent of the time but now that [TS]

01:23:36   we're recording who knows it could be right could be more could be less but [TS]

01:23:40   you know the there's a lot of pressure from the finance side of things to keep [TS]

01:23:45   that percentage margin that that gross margin percentage of what is it like 37 [TS]

01:23:50   percent or something like that I don't even know finance stuff but there's a [TS]

01:23:54   lot of pressure to keep that where it is or get it bigger and this quarter went [TS]

01:23:59   down slightly and I bet that's gonna hurt a little bit and you know Apple has [TS]

01:24:04   to Apple's kinda squeeze on all sides of this kind of stuff they [TS]

01:24:08   their shareholders and the board probably want them to keep that number [TS]

01:24:13   pretty healthy but the whole rest of the market is saying we want things cheaper [TS]

01:24:17   we want things better there's all this competition has making things cheaper [TS]

01:24:20   and better in a lot of cases and so they're really kind of squeeze on both [TS]

01:24:24   sides there and it's it's it's tough position with that like I think there I [TS]

01:24:28   think you're always gonna see Apple struggling to hit that balance optimally [TS]

01:24:32   and we're not going to like what they have to do to hit or the financial [TS]

01:24:36   market like that to do it right and i think that there was you know what gives [TS]

01:24:42   me hope is the way that the iPad Mini went redmond this year rather than next [TS]

01:24:49   year which is what I had expected a year ago and that it you know it's totally [TS]

01:24:53   caught up its on the 87 it's you know what it's like five percent under clock [TS]

01:24:58   compared to the air but you know for all intents and purposes they're the exact [TS]

01:25:05   same iPad just two different sized screens display and that to me is really [TS]

01:25:10   impressive and that's the sort of same efficiency that that if I'm right or if [TS]

01:25:18   my wishes correct that they can get like maybe next year [TS]

01:25:23   get the iPads to use the same camera as the iPhone sex or whatever they're gonna [TS]

01:25:29   call it would be the same type of movie would be a pleasant surprise but I don't [TS]

01:25:33   think it's something that people should hold their breath for the issue of [TS]

01:25:39   darkness where your physical room concerns also with especially with the [TS]

01:25:44   many actually I think isn't the air filter them any way they're probably [TS]

01:25:49   closed so yeah there's there's also depth concerns because you know one of [TS]

01:25:55   the ways to make one of the easiest ways to make camera's bigger is to make a [TS]

01:25:59   larger sensor which is larger optics which has to be further away exactly i [TS]

01:26:05   mean there's there's some tricks you can pull a distance but not many and not [TS]

01:26:10   many that won't hurt the image quality noticeably and so there's [TS]

01:26:13   there's always going to be a battle between device thickness and camera [TS]

01:26:16   quality but you also have a discussion for I wonder if I wonder if you went out [TS]

01:26:21   and and just went to like a carrier does it question and never thought about this [TS]

01:26:25   before any dues went to like Verizon store and looked at every Android and [TS]

01:26:33   and Windows Phone smartphone that they're selling how many of them have [TS]

01:26:38   like a bomb for the camera at a lot of it it's got to be most has to be his [TS]

01:26:45   only one time she always have a bump of some kind whether it's just for the [TS]

01:26:49   camera lens and it's sort of like oh or it's like half the back of it is it [TS]

01:26:55   different than the other [TS]

01:26:56   yeah it's that's been as far as I mean we're the two worst people on the road [TS]

01:27:04   talk about this but as far as I know that's been like standard Android for [TS]

01:27:09   years now [TS]

01:27:10   pretty sure I saw an Android phone once I'm seeing someone to an AT&T store two [TS]

01:27:16   years ago let me do the third sponsor yeah another repeat sponsor another [TS]

01:27:23   fantastic service what a great idea it's our friends at fracture fracture print [TS]

01:27:31   your photos in vivid color directly on glass you get it in the mail then and [TS]

01:27:38   it's a picture frame an amount all-in-one your box contains everything [TS]

01:27:44   you need here photo on your wall or on your desk propped up it's a small team [TS]

01:27:49   and assemble every print right here in the USA and they have a thirty-day [TS]

01:27:54   happiness guarantee in a lifetime warranty [TS]

01:27:58   have sizes starting at five by five small which is 12 bucks all the way up [TS]

01:28:03   to 22 by 29 those are inches this is the USA folks [TS]

01:28:08   extra large you're saying that you know I have I ever give you my rant on [TS]

01:28:15   fahrenheit vs celsius I think I did on a talk show once but I'll get that extra [TS]

01:28:20   large at 225 bucks but that's huge and they have a special promotion for talk [TS]

01:28:25   show listeners use coupon code the talk show all one word no spaces the [TS]

01:28:31   talk-show get you 10% off your order I have a bunch of these now from when they [TS]

01:28:38   sponsored to show before I got six of them in my office right now my wife Paul [TS]

01:28:43   Paul and Amy my wife had to say they had were doing their talk show their podcast [TS]

01:28:51   before they had fractures a sponsor and they did a thing where they were sending [TS]

01:28:54   each other gimmick fractures they were sending each other like jo Kwon's back [TS]

01:28:59   and forth for each episode of the fracture sponsored them so we have [TS]

01:29:02   fractures all over the house they all look great and it was a big hit for our [TS]

01:29:07   family Christmas cuz it was a go to gift you know where to get someone getting [TS]

01:29:12   president someone in the family [TS]

01:29:14   fracture looks amazing and I just can't say enough how different it looks it's [TS]

01:29:22   it's like it's the weirdest the fact that they say they print the photos [TS]

01:29:27   directly on glass didn't make any sense to me until I got one and that it [TS]

01:29:30   exactly what it looks like [TS]

01:29:32   looks way core and somehow different then a print under glass really cool [TS]

01:29:39   thing go to their website the website is fracture me.com just spell out the word [TS]

01:29:47   frac T U R E [TS]

01:29:49   me.com doesn't hurt doesn't hurt check them out [TS]

01:29:55   use that coupon code the talk show and trust me it's a really better than [TS]

01:29:55   use that coupon code the talk show and trust me it's a really better than [TS]

01:30:00   I expected it to be an expected to be pretty good but it's really really cool [TS]

01:30:03   way to print robust yeah i sat on my show to get these funds were measured 21 [TS]

01:30:08   years I came up with for them is that they're they're small sized its square [TS]

01:30:12   to five inches by 5 inches are there is a rectangle version that if things for [TS]

01:30:15   by six something like that and their small size is great for app icons and so [TS]

01:30:21   I have on my wall my office this row of three app icons of the apps I've worked [TS]

01:30:27   on Instapaper the magazine and overcast all in a row hang up my law kind of like [TS]

01:30:33   a trophy / motivation row for me because you know that the square size 12 bucks [TS]

01:30:39   reason these things fantastic and it before the discount so desperate idea if [TS]

01:30:44   it works it works so well you should I mean you know that's it square if they [TS]

01:30:47   don't they don't cut corners for you although they do have a custom option [TS]

01:30:50   look into but but you know these things look great and it was a good great way [TS]

01:30:56   to bring your bring your work into the physical world for once if they did cut [TS]

01:31:00   the corners at a rate cut the dough to retain the machine Seven Corners change [TS]

01:31:06   so don't don't cut corners [TS]

01:31:09   second Apple thing to do to change that shape but just to be a dick to everyone [TS]

01:31:13   is fantastic let me give you my rent subsidies for sure [TS]

01:31:21   fahrenheit I I won't argue in favor of Imperial measures whatever you want to [TS]

01:31:26   call them in general the the you know in general the metric system is superior [TS]

01:31:32   because of the logical you know everything's scale bothered [TS]

01:31:37   but fahrenheit I will argue for and fahrenheit is a scale of 0 to 100 0 and [TS]

01:31:47   it's all based on temperature like a weather temperature zero degrees [TS]

01:31:51   Fahrenheit is freezing your fuckin ass off its like the most you get a human [TS]

01:31:56   being can typical human can bear outside and a hundred is unbearably hot 02 a [TS]

01:32:04   hundred super ass called super ass hot set Celsius scale of 0 is freezing point [TS]

01:32:13   of water and hundreds boiling [TS]

01:32:15   gives you ship who gives a shit about what temperature water boils at when [TS]

01:32:21   you're talking about the weather fahrenheit makes so much more sense in [TS]

01:32:24   Celsius degree burns and was doing the show is doing a show at Dannon and [TS]

01:32:31   Danone I got my rant about this when do you always say boy you're gonna get [TS]

01:32:35   email I'll tell you what we got email so you got email cuz everybody outside tus [TS]

01:32:39   rate I'm telling you you're wrong [TS]

01:32:42   celsius is well and they're both not based on absolute zero and so I feel [TS]

01:32:50   like you know 44 expressing the temperature of the weather of the air I [TS]

01:32:54   agree I think fahrenheit makes more sense and you know it's not it's not [TS]

01:32:58   that 0 it it's not that you're gonna die below 0 or die above a hundred [TS]

01:33:03   fahrenheit you just you know you will see these extremes in your life if you [TS]

01:33:08   live somewhere normal but you know you you don't really want to be there [TS]

01:33:12   you want to be inside with with the climate control at that point whereas [TS]

01:33:18   celsius yet like zero is kind of cold and a hundred is you're dead right and [TS]

01:33:23   you died a long time ago actually had so it felt like negative 3 Celsius [TS]

01:33:29   negatives 3 Celsius is a few degrees below water freezing so it's you know [TS]

01:33:35   it's must be I don't know I'm not gonna look this up but it must be sleep what [TS]

01:33:39   we would call something in the high twenties fahrenheit probably [TS]

01:33:42   or somewhere in the twenties so that's cold but it's not crazy cold it's not [TS]

01:33:48   like a walk my dog and 00 yeah you're not gonna get hurt outside and that when [TS]

01:33:53   it's negative three fahrenheit you're gonna get hurt you you you might get [TS]

01:33:57   frostbite oh yeah come in below 10 I don't really go outside when its above a [TS]

01:34:06   hundred degrees Fahrenheit you got a you know like all your grandfather and make [TS]

01:34:10   sure that he's still alive because I feel like you know because neither of [TS]

01:34:18   them were based on absolute zero they both have this kind of arbitrary 0.14% [TS]

01:34:24   you can say well it's a lot easier when working with computers and science [TS]

01:34:32   teacher at the Metro stuff because of their nice evenly divisible increments [TS]

01:34:36   and stuff like that but temperature it seems like the only true temperature [TS]

01:34:41   measuring the teacher to work with Abby Calvin and if you're gonna like if [TS]

01:34:43   you're arguing for the sake of well celsius is better for science or [TS]

01:34:47   something not really I Calvin would be the the one that would be there for [TS]

01:34:52   science and computation [TS]

01:34:54   you want the 10 actually is zero in a meaningful way [TS]

01:34:58   and you know not basing his weird arbitrary midsection of of actual [TS]

01:35:02   temperatures so I would say celsius 'as is equally stupid as fahrenheit I don't [TS]

01:35:09   I wouldn't see either of them are necessarily overall better I would say [TS]

01:35:12   celsius he was stupid now fahrenheit is brilliant fahrenheit is a perfect scale [TS]

01:35:17   for human temperate weather temperatures air temperatures cause you act yeah [TS]

01:35:21   actually I can see the effort here for the temperature of the weather air yeah [TS]

01:35:26   I agree fahrenheit makes more sense there twenty degrees Celsius in [TS]

01:35:31   Fahrenheit what is that lets see 23 Celsius [TS]

01:35:35   like 50 or something right 66 ranges in at 68 and then 29 degrees Fahrenheit or [TS]

01:35:43   29 degrees Celsius in Fahrenheit is 84 that's totally different it's so whether [TS]

01:35:50   you're talking two totally different days whereas in Fahrenheit you could say [TS]

01:35:54   well what's it like today well it's in the seventies then you know what i mean [TS]

01:35:58   it means of beautiful and it doesn't matter if it's 7278 two beautiful day if [TS]

01:36:06   you know it's between 22 and 27 other this is of course why when you and I [TS]

01:36:14   travel internationally probably set the thermostat some ridiculous temperature I [TS]

01:36:21   i I don't know if it's because it's called the Intercontinental or if it was [TS]

01:36:28   just that the gas before me happened to do it and that made up the room I [TS]

01:36:33   remember one time for WBC it stayed at the InterContinental in San Francisco I [TS]

01:36:36   came in the room and it check the thermostat and it was twenty something [TS]

01:36:41   and I thought you know debonair world traveler that I am well that's fine and [TS]

01:36:48   you know stash my bag and went out [TS]

01:36:52   had some dinner and had a couple drinks got back to the room ready to sleep [TS]

01:36:56   ready to get a good night's rest for the WBC keno the next morning and woke up [TS]

01:37:02   with like the night sweats and I was like something bad that I drink too much [TS]

01:37:07   i dont wanna do that before the keynote and that's why I gotta go get some water [TS]

01:37:12   and then I go and check the thermostat and I find the button and then I'm blind [TS]

01:37:18   in the night cause I don't know my contact center find my glasses checked [TS]

01:37:21   the thermostat and I like find the button that convert Celsius to [TS]

01:37:25   Fahrenheit and it's it's dipshit who had the room before me had it set to like 77 [TS]

01:37:30   degrees Fahrenheit see normally I would say oh man that sucks I feel so bad for [TS]

01:37:37   you [TS]

01:37:38   however when you did wake up from that horrible sleep at 9:30 in the morning [TS]

01:37:43   you probably walked right past me in the quinoline where I had been since six in [TS]

01:37:47   the morning so I don't feel bad for you at all I think I remember seeing you [TS]

01:37:51   might recall that we call a show right let's do it let's call it show she's an [TS]

01:37:59   hour and 40 minutes on just one show I hadn't stopped [TS]