00:00:00 ◼ ► sold lots of stuff going on this week I guess the big one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/0">TS</a>]
00:00:03 ◼ ► you know I think if we look back if we did like a week by week highlight you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3">TS</a>]
00:00:07 ◼ ► know years from now we'll look back on the big news this week is is no delas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7">TS</a>]
00:00:15 ◼ ► you have and it's a little weird cuz it leaked a little bit early and I think in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/15">TS</a>]
00:00:22 ◼ ► hindsight it's sort of like my initial take is why did it take so long to name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/22">TS</a>]
00:00:28 ◼ ► the guy goes it seems pretty obvious right I totally agree with that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/28">TS</a>]
00:00:34 ◼ ► there have been so many different front-runners have there been at first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/34">TS</a>]
00:00:38 ◼ ► it was Stephen you operate right now then it became the Ford CEO Alan Mulally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/38">TS</a>]
00:00:47 ◼ ► Mulally law and and then you know there were some other names bandied about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/47">TS</a>]
00:00:57 ◼ ► Skype guy tony yeah yeah but there were more I guess there are more dark horses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/57">TS</a>]
00:01:02 ◼ ► but not soon adele is one that was always mention certainly cause he is one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/62">TS</a>]
00:01:07 ◼ ► of the senior executives there but it is you know it seems like it seems like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/67">TS</a>]
00:01:12 ◼ ► everyone is saying that this is the absolute right call but why wasn't it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/72">TS</a>]
00:01:17 ◼ ► yeah it and the only one that I could see that maybe they wanted to really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/77">TS</a>]
00:01:23 ◼ ► push on was Mulally Ford and he used to be at boeing which means he has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/83">TS</a>]
00:01:29 ◼ ► seattle-area roots and you know and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/89">TS</a>]
00:01:33 ◼ ► while I first year I thought well for that's not really a technical company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/93">TS</a>]
00:01:38 ◼ ► but you do you read up on my wall he does have an engineering background is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/98">TS</a>]
00:01:45 ◼ ► mind he's you know and engineering guy who worked up to become an executive so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/105">TS</a>]
00:01:49 ◼ ► it it it's not outlandish and the story that was told on that was that a and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/109">TS</a>]
00:01:54 ◼ ► he's a little bit older he's he's already had a successful career he is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/114">TS</a>]
00:01:58 ◼ ► very successful Boeing turned you know ford around through a very difficult [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/118">TS</a>]
00:02:01 ◼ ► time for the car industry he would just go to Microsoft for a couple of years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/121">TS</a>]
00:02:05 ◼ ► and and sort of take probably in it was it was even rumored under his wing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/125">TS</a>]
00:02:11 ◼ ► sort of teaching the ropes of being a CEO yeah that's that sounds like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/131">TS</a>]
00:02:16 ◼ ► pretty good theory about that because that is the one main criticism against [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/136">TS</a>]
00:02:20 ◼ ► the people have them of Nadal is that he's never been a CEO at all and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/140">TS</a>]
00:02:24 ◼ ► taking over one of the largest companies in the world is certainly going to be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/144">TS</a>]
00:02:28 ◼ ► challenge it probably would have been beneficial to have a coach [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/148">TS</a>]
00:02:32 ◼ ► quote unquote coach to do to help them along that but he's bill gates now to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/152">TS</a>]
00:02:36 ◼ ► that right to do so right and I but I am I thought on the timing this deal when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/156">TS</a>]
00:02:41 ◼ ► Mulally backed out and just said you know pretty much point-blank you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/161">TS</a>]
00:02:45 ◼ ► what I'm staying afford you know that's it then I don't understand why it took [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/165">TS</a>]
00:02:49 ◼ ► months after that for for this to be named yeah it seems like who knows I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/169">TS</a>]
00:02:55 ◼ ► mean reading into all the various stories that have come out in in these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/175">TS</a>]
00:02:58 ◼ ► past few months it definitely does sound like there was quite a bit of tension on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/178">TS</a>]
00:03:03 ◼ ► the border between in particular sort of between some of the candidates they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/183">TS</a>]
00:03:08 ◼ ► talking to and the power dynamics of wood gates remain chairman and would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/188">TS</a>]
00:03:13 ◼ ► Ballmer remain on the board because that would be a very a weird situation I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/193">TS</a>]
00:03:17 ◼ ► would imagine for someone an outsider especially to come into that company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/197">TS</a>]
00:03:21 ◼ ► with the two previous CEOs on their board of directors sort of you know well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/201">TS</a>]
00:03:28 ◼ ► we didn't do it this way in the past type thing coming up again and again and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/208">TS</a>]
00:03:32 ◼ ► again you can imagine so you know it seems like there is definitely a board [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/212">TS</a>]
00:03:37 ◼ ► struggle a little bit and they finally it sorted that out but I still don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/217">TS</a>]
00:03:40 ◼ ► know why they took six months I don't feel like there was a story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/220">TS</a>]
00:03:44 ◼ ► in the journal a day or two after the announcement that was reported to be the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/224">TS</a>]
00:03:49 ◼ ► hey here's what happened behind the scenes and there was a little bit of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/229">TS</a>]
00:03:52 ◼ ► color but not really anything that explained why it took as long as I get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/232">TS</a>]
00:03:58 ◼ ► the real story behind it did not come out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/238">TS</a>]
00:04:01 ◼ ► yeah yeah I think I read that as well and and there's there's other sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/241">TS</a>]
00:04:05 ◼ ► things that are yet to be seen on this suit the one guy from you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/245">TS</a>]
00:04:10 ◼ ► activist shareholder is going to be taking a board seat soon from ValueClick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/250">TS</a>]
00:04:15 ◼ ► I think that's what it was and so you know there was a lot of talk of when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/255">TS</a>]
00:04:20 ◼ ► that was going to happen like sort of bomber had to concede that that he was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/260">TS</a>]
00:04:23 ◼ ► going to allow this this activist shareholder to take the board seat and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/263">TS</a>]
00:04:27 ◼ ► what does that mean for the dynamics of the board now that that Gates is no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/267">TS</a>]
00:04:31 ◼ ► longer chairman and I don't like no one's really talking about that right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/271">TS</a>]
00:04:35 ◼ ► now but I don't know what that will mean because he would assume that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/275">TS</a>]
00:04:38 ◼ ► activist shareholder wanted to take the board seat in order to shake things up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/278">TS</a>]
00:04:42 ◼ ► things have already been shaken up now so what what is his role there and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/282">TS</a>]
00:04:48 ◼ ► widest is sort of company still want that position I would imagine it's to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/288">TS</a>]
00:04:53 ◼ ► see how things go for the first few months to see if Microsoft has actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/293">TS</a>]
00:04:57 ◼ ► willing now with new leadership to sort of changed direction in any way and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/297">TS</a>]
00:05:02 ◼ ► don't know what are your thoughts on that you think that they actually will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/302">TS</a>]
00:05:04 ◼ ► sort of change from bombers lest you know reorg stance I don't know and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/304">TS</a>]
00:05:13 ◼ ► I think everybody you know I don't think you have to be juiced into microsoftr be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/313">TS</a>]
00:05:18 ◼ ► a keen observer just just common sense tells you that I think it was going good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/318">TS</a>]
00:05:24 ◼ ► couple months ago weeks ago we talked about just it's just weird that they did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/324">TS</a>]
00:05:28 ◼ ► the reorg then said bombers leaving you know it just really seems like hey we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/328">TS</a>]
00:05:35 ◼ ► want a new CEO and we want to reorg it seems like the way you do that is you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/335">TS</a>]
00:05:39 ◼ ► put the new CEO and in let the new CEO Ron and structure and improve the reorg [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/339">TS</a>]
00:05:46 ◼ ► an end I guess naming an insider a guy you know who's been there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/346">TS</a>]
00:05:52 ◼ ► r it adds a little bit of continuity and and you know maybe that makes a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/352">TS</a>]
00:05:57 ◼ ► bit more sense but then that again raises to me the question of why they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/357">TS</a>]
00:06:00 ◼ ► didn't just named him earlier yeah I think that by sort of doing that reorg [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/360">TS</a>]
00:06:08 ◼ ► that that's certainly seems to speak to the notion that perhaps bomber wasn't at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/368">TS</a>]
00:06:12 ◼ ► all ready to go he sort of made it seem like it was his his own call and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/372">TS</a>]
00:06:18 ◼ ► know ultimately it may have been but he was certainly you know at least pushed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/378">TS</a>]
00:06:22 ◼ ► in that direction they would imagine because it does seem insane that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/382">TS</a>]
00:06:26 ◼ ► that he would orchestrate this entire change the company even if he thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/386">TS</a>]
00:06:30 ◼ ► someone an insider was going to take over underneath him it's still like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/390">TS</a>]
00:06:34 ◼ ► know it's it's it's someone else sort of setting setting the table for four your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/394">TS</a>]
00:06:40 ◼ ► well it's so weird a lot of thing and then and then what about the element of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/400">TS</a>]
00:06:45 ◼ ► you remember all this Stephen Elop stuff that lately about how how different you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/405">TS</a>]
00:06:51 ◼ ► know he's gonna cut everything up into little pieces and sell off certain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/411">TS</a>]
00:06:55 ◼ ► businesses and and we think that was from him or from one of his rivals camps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/415">TS</a>]
00:07:00 ◼ ► because it obviously it ultimately Nov torpedoed his his candidacy but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/420">TS</a>]
00:07:05 ◼ ► certainly ended up not helping a cause he's not the CEO right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/425">TS</a>]
00:07:08 ◼ ► yeah that's a good question either either it must be one or the other in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/428">TS</a>]
00:07:12 ◼ ► must either be that he thought it helped and that he must have also thought that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/432">TS</a>]
00:07:17 ◼ ► he knew you know like in private conversation that he had some support on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/437">TS</a>]
00:07:22 ◼ ► the board and that leading it would get outsiders you know like investors you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/442">TS</a>]
00:07:30 ◼ ► know I mean like the people were just talking right value at people who would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/450">TS</a>]
00:07:35 ◼ ► definitely I think that that's their sort of stated goal to get Microsoft to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/455">TS</a>]
00:07:39 ◼ ► cut itself up into little pieces to to sort of throw pressure behind that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/459">TS</a>]
00:07:45 ◼ ► and make it you know whatever you put pressure on the ones who are maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/465">TS</a>]
00:07:49 ◼ ► pushing against the OPP to go his way or you know and it is you know and it's it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/469">TS</a>]
00:07:54 ◼ ► sounds you know you start you say this and it sounds a little silly and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/474">TS</a>]
00:07:57 ◼ ► start thinking maybe you know everything's not like a movie but you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/477">TS</a>]
00:08:00 ◼ ► know what they're in real life there are part of politics and people do play [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/480">TS</a>]
00:08:04 ◼ ► dirty tricks the other idea would be that it was somebody else who ceded it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/484">TS</a>]
00:08:08 ◼ ► to make him look bad like he can't keep his mouth shut and leaked to the press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/488">TS</a>]
00:08:13 ◼ ► sort of guy yeah that's sort of you know again who knows what's actually going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/493">TS</a>]
00:08:18 ◼ ► but that sounds really plausible because of the you saw what the reaction was to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/498">TS</a>]
00:08:23 ◼ ► it when that happens it's like oh my god this is insane you know like there were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/503">TS</a>]
00:08:28 ◼ ► two camps as there always are you know the people who who think that Microsoft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/508">TS</a>]
00:08:32 ◼ ► should be split up her like hell yeah this is exactly what they need to do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/512">TS</a>]
00:08:35 ◼ ► and there's the people are just looking at the company overall and just having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/515">TS</a>]
00:08:40 ◼ ► gone through this reorganization like oh my god this is this going to throw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/520">TS</a>]
00:08:44 ◼ ► things into further disarray this is pretty much the end of Microsoft if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/524">TS</a>]
00:08:47 ◼ ► let this happen if I had to guess though I think that it was Elop and his people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/527">TS</a>]
00:08:53 ◼ ► who leaked it because if it were and he could've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/533">TS</a>]
00:08:58 ◼ ► there are ways for him to you know he somehow tried got thrown under the bus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/538">TS</a>]
00:09:02 ◼ ► by somebody else there's ways that he could spend it the other way you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/542">TS</a>]
00:09:07 ◼ ► and if it wasn't his actual plan to put the company up like that you know he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/547">TS</a>]
00:09:12 ◼ ► could have come out and just said so yeah said this you know that didn't come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/552">TS</a>]
00:09:16 ◼ ► from me that's not my plan I don't know yet what if it's it would if it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/556">TS</a>]
00:09:20 ◼ ► situation where he started knew that he at that point somehow he knew that he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/560">TS</a>]
00:09:24 ◼ ► wasn't the front-runner and he thought let's just try something wild and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/564">TS</a>]
00:09:28 ◼ ► know sort of a John McCain kidding Sarah Palin and and it backfires what what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/568">TS</a>]
00:09:34 ◼ ► the old saying never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stop Italy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/574">TS</a>]
00:09:40 ◼ ► and I always thought that that made a lot of sense even with the whole thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/580">TS</a>]
00:09:49 ◼ ► where he was in Nokia and when he first went there from Microsoft and there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/589">TS</a>]
00:09:53 ◼ ► a lot of people who said wait they've hired a guy from Microsoft and then he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/593">TS</a>]
00:09:56 ◼ ► comes in and the first thing he says is we should did all of our existing plans [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/596">TS</a>]
00:10:01 ◼ ► and go with Windows Phone and a lot of people said you know is he like like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/601">TS</a>]
00:10:06 ◼ ► double agent is he the puppet government right now I mean what if he's coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/606">TS</a>]
00:10:10 ◼ ► here in purposely trying to run the company into the ground so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/610">TS</a>]
00:10:14 ◼ ► Microsoft can buy them and then he ran the company into the ground lost a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/614">TS</a>]
00:10:18 ◼ ► of shareholder value and and made tens of millions of dollars from self right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/618">TS</a>]
00:10:24 ◼ ► with a crazy contract that was structured in a way that it if the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/624">TS</a>]
00:10:29 ◼ ► company lost a lot of value and was sold for the mobile handset division was told [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/629">TS</a>]
00:10:35 ◼ ► that he would profit it had played out you know conspiracy theorists would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/635">TS</a>]
00:10:41 ◼ ► a field day with that one because it's perfectly along those lines and and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/641">TS</a>]
00:10:46 ◼ ► don't know I mean it actually makes sense both ways that he's actually not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/646">TS</a>]
00:10:50 ◼ ► very good at his job or is devilishly good but devious you know both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/650">TS</a>]
00:10:58 ◼ ► explanations make sense I don't think either explanation makes him a good pic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/658">TS</a>]
00:11:03 ◼ ► to be Microsoft CEO though I agree and and there's there's another survey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/663">TS</a>]
00:11:08 ◼ ► interesting wrinkle to this when I was sort of reading through a series that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/668">TS</a>]
00:11:11 ◼ ► realize which is that so now I'm not being CEO he is going to be when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/671">TS</a>]
00:11:16 ◼ ► when the deal I think the deal's closing sometime this quarter with Nokia he will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/676">TS</a>]
00:11:21 ◼ ► be the one put in charge of the devices business basically and that was with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/681">TS</a>]
00:11:29 ◼ ► previous reorg if you remember there was this there was a sort of Brit big press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/689">TS</a>]
00:11:33 ◼ ► cycle around Julie Larson green right who was previously an executive in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/693">TS</a>]
00:11:40 ◼ ► one of the senior executives at the company and she was being elevated to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/700">TS</a>]
00:11:43 ◼ ► senior executive and put in charge of the devices thing right before they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/703">TS</a>]
00:11:48 ◼ ► announced the the Nokia deal and I remember I think there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/708">TS</a>]
00:11:51 ◼ ► i dont member who ran the profile may have been the Virgin may have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/711">TS</a>]
00:11:53 ◼ ► someone else but they had a big profile on her and how like she's ascending to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/713">TS</a>]
00:11:57 ◼ ► the top of the company in and maybe you know like maybe she will one day be CEO [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/717">TS</a>]
00:12:02 ◼ ► and now all of a sudden with the with the nuclear deal you office is now her [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/722">TS</a>]
00:12:06 ◼ ► boss she got demoted essentially and you know and and then thinking there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/726">TS</a>]
00:12:12 ◼ ► that well maybe it's only a temporary thing because maybe win you know when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/732">TS</a>]
00:12:17 ◼ ► you up its CEO she will get her job back but it obviously didn't play out that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/737">TS</a>]
00:12:23 ◼ ► yeah and is she still and she's not in charge of Windows now look what what it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/743">TS</a>]
00:12:32 ◼ ► is I do know that she was I know she was for a while she worked with Sinofsky [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/752">TS</a>]
00:12:36 ◼ ► yeah right when she took over when when he was out and sort of took over that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/756">TS</a>]
00:12:44 ◼ ► thing but yeah I believe with the reorg she was the one being put in charge of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/764">TS</a>]
00:12:47 ◼ ► the division that is now in turn will be in charge of once once there I think one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/767">TS</a>]
00:12:55 ◼ ► thing it brings to my mind and it really shows I think I really do think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/775">TS</a>]
00:13:02 ◼ ► just how how badly a job bomber didn't certain ways and I dunno I know that he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/782">TS</a>]
00:13:11 ◼ ► you know under his leadership the company's revenues and profits have gone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/791">TS</a>]
00:13:14 ◼ ► up yet even over the last few years and that's you know it so he's by no measure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/794">TS</a>]
00:13:20 ◼ ► a complete failure and and I think you know four years it's not just after the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/800">TS</a>]
00:13:25 ◼ ► fact but all along he's publicly stated that that's how we measure the success [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/805">TS</a>]
00:13:30 ◼ ► of the company right on some measures you know Microsoft board got exactly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/810">TS</a>]
00:13:35 ◼ ► what they thought they should have thought they were gonna get under bomber [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/815">TS</a>]
00:13:39 ◼ ► but one of the ways that I think that he really left them in the lurch was was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/819">TS</a>]
00:13:43 ◼ ► with how many other executives he effectively pushed out over the last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/823">TS</a>]
00:13:53 ◼ ► Robbie box the other two Xbox Guide a allard Baylor right who you know a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/833">TS</a>]
00:14:02 ◼ ► you know even just a couple of years ago even sure what he's up to anymore but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/842">TS</a>]
00:14:06 ◼ ► even just a couple years ago a lot of people considered him sort of appear to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/846">TS</a>]
00:14:11 ◼ ► like a Tony Fadell like a rival you know like right you know near the top and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/851">TS</a>]
00:14:17 ◼ ► then charge of consumer devices in a keen eye for you know leading that sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/857">TS</a>]
00:14:22 ◼ ► of team and all those people were gone and all those people who know you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/862">TS</a>]
00:14:26 ◼ ► some of them maybe they should have been gone I don't know I always thought Ray [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/866">TS</a>]
00:14:29 ◼ ► Ozzie for example to me was a little bit was not a practical person that always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/869">TS</a>]
00:14:34 ◼ ► seemed to me when I listen to him talk that he died I was like what did you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/874">TS</a>]
00:14:40 ◼ ► really say I don't know never it never really made a lot of Sandwell it and he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/880">TS</a>]
00:14:43 ◼ ► i mean he had he had sort of the hardest of all to step into which was replacing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/883">TS</a>]
00:14:47 ◼ ► the gates are alright the Chiefs are so I'm not going to say that all of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/887">TS</a>]
00:14:53 ◼ ► should have stayed or that it was possible but the fact is that none of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/893">TS</a>]
00:14:56 ◼ ► them stayed all of them are gone and so in terms of continuity and picking and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/896">TS</a>]
00:15:02 ◼ ► somebody from the inside and having a smooth transition which you know let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/902">TS</a>]
00:15:07 ◼ ► just face it in some aspects the public relations of a CEO transition are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/907">TS</a>]
00:15:13 ◼ ► stakes are high but the optics are simple right what you really want is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/913">TS</a>]
00:15:18 ◼ ► nice smooth handoff with a handshake and a smile and it all happens in one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/918">TS</a>]
00:15:23 ◼ ► right it's I'm stepping down and I'm happy to say the board is already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/923">TS</a>]
00:15:28 ◼ ► approved that my protege insert name here is replacing me the companies in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/928">TS</a>]
00:15:35 ◼ ► great hands we work together for the last so many years here she has led this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/935">TS</a>]
00:15:41 ◼ ► part of the company's great success can be happier to great day for the company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/941">TS</a>]
00:15:47 ◼ ► there you go and then chooses which is exactly what Apple did under very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/947">TS</a>]
00:15:51 ◼ ► different circumstances for the stepping down of the sea right it was but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/951">TS</a>]
00:15:57 ◼ ► you know Apple was clearly set up where that's in some alternate universe where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/957">TS</a>]
00:16:05 ◼ ► you know jobs stayed a step ahead of the cancer but decided you know I took a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/965">TS</a>]
00:16:18 ◼ ► look at what happened with the cancer and took a look at what he'd done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/978">TS</a>]
00:16:20 ◼ ► through you know the release of the iPad and said you know what I'm going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/980">TS</a>]
00:16:25 ◼ ► Hawaii right I'm going to become chairman of the board and I'm gonna come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/985">TS</a>]
00:16:29 ◼ ► in for two or three weeks a year and I'm going to Hawaii for the other 50 49 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/989">TS</a>]
00:16:33 ◼ ► weeks here it would have been Tim Cook is you know he's been COO for all this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/993">TS</a>]
00:16:43 ◼ ► companies ingredients you know sign are right it would have been exact same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1003">TS</a>]
00:16:48 ◼ ► transition just you know not you know without the tragedy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1008">TS</a>]
00:16:52 ◼ ► yes embalmer really it in and I can't help but feel that you know political [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1012">TS</a>]
00:17:00 ◼ ► intrigue wise the dead he did that on purpose [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1020">TS</a>]
00:17:02 ◼ ► you know that it was to you know it's sort of a godfather mafia movies type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1022">TS</a>]
00:17:07 ◼ ► scenario but with the city killing them it's just getting squeezing people out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1027">TS</a>]
00:17:11 ◼ ► yea and they're at their long been those sort of rumors that that is what Ballmer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1031">TS</a>]
00:17:16 ◼ ► was like you know not so even secretly doing sort of just anyone who was was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1036">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► rising to a level that seemed like a good challenge him in within the company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:25 ◼ ► was was somehow immediately you know exited just take for example Sinofsky [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1045">TS</a>]
00:17:30 ◼ ► who is very smart guy and when you read like he enjoys blogging now and stuff is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1050">TS</a>]
00:17:35 ◼ ► so obvious to me very cogent and makes a lot of sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1055">TS</a>]
00:17:39 ◼ ► you know I think if he had still been at the company clearly would have been a if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1059">TS</a>]
00:17:44 ◼ ► not the leading candidate and he wasn't there anymore and that once he's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1064">TS</a>]
00:17:49 ◼ ► there anymore I feel like PR wise the board was kind of you know legally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1069">TS</a>]
00:17:56 ◼ ► speaking of course they can hire anybody you know they could hire you know they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1076">TS</a>]
00:18:00 ◼ ► could try to hire Tim Cook they could hire you know they can certainly bring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1080">TS</a>]
00:18:03 ◼ ► Sinofsky back but bringing Sinofsky back would be like a slap and bombers face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1083">TS</a>]
00:18:08 ◼ ► and it would make the company look bad for sure they keep their hands were tied [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1088">TS</a>]
00:18:12 ◼ ► in terms of if any of those people who left the company if the board actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1092">TS</a>]
00:18:16 ◼ ► thought these are good candidates to lead the company so do you what do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1096">TS</a>]
00:18:20 ◼ ► think happens now with Nutella as CEO do you think that there will be more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1100">TS</a>]
00:18:24 ◼ ► internal sort of shake-up and strafed you see that do you think people will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1104">TS</a>]
00:18:28 ◼ ► leave because they were either passed over like you know we'll see what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1108">TS</a>]
00:18:33 ◼ ► happens with Eli by assume that he can't he must have some sort of you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1113">TS</a>]
00:18:36 ◼ ► handcuffs to that are part of the Nokia deal where he has to come over and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1116">TS</a>]
00:18:40 ◼ ► actually stayed within the company for awhile but you know there's a there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1120">TS</a>]
00:18:44 ◼ ► others there's no tony Bates we're talking about there's there's several [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1124">TS</a>]
00:18:47 ◼ ► others who you know could have felt like they were slated in some way and are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1127">TS</a>]
00:18:53 ◼ ► they are they gonna feel we are now being managed by being overseen by what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1133">TS</a>]
00:18:57 ◼ ► was their peer before I don't know I don't know enough about the company said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1137">TS</a>]
00:19:02 ◼ ► to have a sense that I my guess is no though it sounds to me and reading the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1142">TS</a>]
00:19:08 ◼ ► blogs of people who are more juiced into Microsoft and and you know know people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1148">TS</a>]
00:19:15 ◼ ► who work there it seems like he's a very pop scene as a popular choice from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1155">TS</a>]
00:19:20 ◼ ► yeah if there are executives who might leave if you like might try to get out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1160">TS</a>]
00:19:25 ◼ ► now or whatever I don't know but I think in terms of the rank-and-file though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1165">TS</a>]
00:19:31 ◼ ► yeah and I think that's sort of been the consensus among everything you read even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1171">TS</a>]
00:19:35 ◼ ► sort of talking to Microsoft employees now they seem pretty excited about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1175">TS</a>]
00:19:39 ◼ ► I do think though I think there is still the lingering questions in the air as to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1179">TS</a>]
00:19:44 ◼ ► once this honeymoon period is over what they are actually going to do is it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1184">TS</a>]
00:19:50 ◼ ► going to just be executing bomber [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1190">TS</a>]
00:19:52 ◼ ► strategy with Nutella or are they going to actually try to make some different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1192">TS</a>]
00:19:58 ◼ ► choices with you know some of the products that just aren't going anywhere [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1198">TS</a>]
00:20:02 ◼ ► I want to other big question I have is what is bill gates's actual yeah and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1202">TS</a>]
00:20:10 ◼ ► was you know it's forget how they phrase it was actually a very deftly turn of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1210">TS</a>]
00:20:15 ◼ ► phrase where he's not that he stepped down as chairman but he's stepped up in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1215">TS</a>]
00:20:22 ◼ ► day-to-day role it's actually a no we laugh but it's actually a very good but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1222">TS</a>]
00:20:27 ◼ ► it totally totally you know so yes so he said he's gonna be spending a third of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1227">TS</a>]
00:20:33 ◼ ► his time right on this Microsoft now which is significant considering before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1233">TS</a>]
00:20:37 ◼ ► obviously he was chairman but I think he was you know very involved in a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1237">TS</a>]
00:20:43 ◼ ► major way at all it's all his philanthropy and so now he's willing to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1243">TS</a>]
00:20:47 ◼ ► take on this more but you know what what does that mean you don't know is see I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1247">TS</a>]
00:20:53 ◼ ► think you know the the easiest thing in the world that I think he could do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1253">TS</a>]
00:20:57 ◼ ► would be beneficial to the company is just just a something as simple as sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1257">TS</a>]
00:21:01 ◼ ► of being the yes no man you know like the last the last word on like what they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1261">TS</a>]
00:21:06 ◼ ► actually either they decide to to go after in terms of new projects or what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1266">TS</a>]
00:21:11 ◼ ► they actually ship it just seems like you know they just sort of her at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1271">TS</a>]
00:21:15 ◼ ► place now where the where they sort of put everything out there and in Windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1275">TS</a>]
00:21:18 ◼ ► 8 is it is a good example of that in my mind because I mean all of us looking at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1278">TS</a>]
00:21:22 ◼ ► it from the outside not all of us but a lot of us looking at it from the outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1282">TS</a>]
00:21:25 ◼ ► I think so too so where this was going with you know I remember I was talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1285">TS</a>]
00:21:30 ◼ ► to do sort of developers who are sort of beta testing windows 8 and like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1290">TS</a>]
00:21:34 ◼ ► trying to gauge their their their thoughts on it and everyone was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1294">TS</a>]
00:21:39 ◼ ► unanimous in saying like this is gonna be a total nightmare for the company and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1299">TS</a>]
00:21:44 ◼ ► somehow the company didn't see that they thought it'd be a great thing and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1304">TS</a>]
00:21:47 ◼ ► shipped it like I don't know if they just weren't talking to people on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1307">TS</a>]
00:21:50 ◼ ► outside or what but there should have been someone within the company who with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1310">TS</a>]
00:21:54 ◼ ► the power to be able to say look let's let's stop here I know what to look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1314">TS</a>]
00:21:58 ◼ ► really bad if we if we delay and operate major operating system but you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1318">TS</a>]
00:22:03 ◼ ► might be worse if we ship something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1323">TS</a>]
00:22:05 ◼ ► you know the the community just totally rejects which is what happened I you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1325">TS</a>]
00:22:10 ◼ ► know my my take on it as I wrote last week is that I think that Windows 8 was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1330">TS</a>]
00:22:14 ◼ ► designed to fit a goal as opposed to being designed to be good in and of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1334">TS</a>]
00:22:23 ◼ ► itself by which I mean that to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1343">TS</a>]
00:22:27 ◼ ► bomber never shook the view that the way things ought to be in the world the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1347">TS</a>]
00:22:33 ◼ ► right way the way the industry should be should be that somewhere around 95% of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1353">TS</a>]
00:22:37 ◼ ► all computing devices should be running Windows and thats was no you know iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1357">TS</a>]
00:22:44 ◼ ► and Android combined in the two very different ways but you know hand in hand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1364">TS</a>]
00:22:52 ◼ ► change that to the case where did you is the one who crashes I think brilliantly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1372">TS</a>]
00:22:59 ◼ ► that it's only like if you count smartphones and tablets as computing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1379">TS</a>]
00:23:04 ◼ ► devices which i think is very very fair you're installing apps on your browsing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1384">TS</a>]
00:23:10 ◼ ► yeah you're doing all the same Windows computers there's more windows devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1390">TS</a>]
00:23:14 ◼ ► in use than ever before in the aggregate but because there are so many other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1394">TS</a>]
00:23:18 ◼ ► computing devices that same explosion of new devices that only you know in 2007 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1398">TS</a>]
00:23:23 ◼ ► ninety percent of all computing devices were running Windows 98 in 2013 at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1403">TS</a>]
00:23:30 ◼ ► end of the year it was like 38% 35% it's an enormous number but now it's like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1410">TS</a>]
00:23:36 ◼ ► world is federated it's you know there's there's three or four mega platforms for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1416">TS</a>]
00:23:42 ◼ ► computing devices in Windows is just one of them and it's not even a majority [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1422">TS</a>]
00:23:47 ◼ ► anymore and it never will be again but I don't think bomber ever came to grips [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1427">TS</a>]
00:23:52 ◼ ► with that and accepted it and I think windows aids goal was like people want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1432">TS</a>]
00:23:55 ◼ ► touch screens will add a touch screen thing to it and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1435">TS</a>]
00:23:58 ◼ ► everything in theory could be running Windows 8 and yep that'll be good and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1438">TS</a>]
00:24:04 ◼ ► and that's that's so crazy when you think about that just you know when when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1444">TS</a>]
00:24:08 ◼ ► you're saying there right now it's just like Microsoft obviously looked at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1448">TS</a>]
00:24:11 ◼ ► world they saw you know their dominant position and you have to assume that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1451">TS</a>]
00:24:16 ◼ ► they were like looking around them saying like who could possibly compete [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1456">TS</a>]
00:24:20 ◼ ► with us and sort of looking at the competitions like Apple is out there and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1460">TS</a>]
00:24:23 ◼ ► they have a very small percentage of of market share with with with Max and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1463">TS</a>]
00:24:28 ◼ ► instead what happened is they were just totally blindsided cuz they didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1468">TS</a>]
00:24:31 ◼ ► realize that the competition wouldn't come in the form of an actual computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1471">TS</a>]
00:24:34 ◼ ► it would come in the form of a phone and then later a tablet and now bomber see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1474">TS</a>]
00:24:41 ◼ ► you know saw that 67 years too late and now is trying to squeeze windows which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1481">TS</a>]
00:24:47 ◼ ► doesn't even make sense of course there are no more windows onto these devices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1487">TS</a>]
00:24:51 ◼ ► in order to unify and get get the house back in order but you just can't do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1491">TS</a>]
00:24:58 ◼ ► yeah and I really don't think it matters that much and I you know I got a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1498">TS</a>]
00:25:02 ◼ ► pushback on that or I got a lot most closely agreement but I got some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1502">TS</a>]
00:25:07 ◼ ► pushback on my piece last week from people who who truly do believe that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1507">TS</a>]
00:25:13 ◼ ► what they want is in in admitting that Windows 8 as it is is not perfect not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1513">TS</a>]
00:25:19 ◼ ► good enough but that the goal is tenable to have one operating system have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1519">TS</a>]
00:25:24 ◼ ► device that is terrific for mouse and keyboard trackpad and keyboard and mouse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1524">TS</a>]
00:25:31 ◼ ► pointer on screen and pixel precise control and touch and that you could do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1531">TS</a>]
00:25:36 ◼ ► it and then it would simplify things because you've got what you know all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1536">TS</a>]
00:25:39 ◼ ► that you know you can have your cake and eat it too and you know I'm not going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1539">TS</a>]
00:25:44 ◼ ► say the wrong I can't prove that they're wrong all I can say is that everything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1544">TS</a>]
00:25:48 ◼ ► i've seen today suggests that they're wrong and you know your thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1548">TS</a>]
00:25:54 ◼ ► it of course like utopian world where everything is perfect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1554">TS</a>]
00:25:59 ◼ ► would you rather have one device that can do everything vs sort of two or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1559">TS</a>]
00:26:03 ◼ ► three devices that you have to have with you at all times of course I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1563">TS</a>]
00:26:06 ◼ ► everyone would want that but it's not that simple it's not that simple for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1566">TS</a>]
00:26:11 ◼ ► visible for developers can you imagine a developer trying to develop you know of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1571">TS</a>]
00:26:15 ◼ ► a Windows 8 application for both a phone and a computer that operates in the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1575">TS</a>]
00:26:21 ◼ ► way I mean they would operate in the same way and so they would they would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1581">TS</a>]
00:26:26 ◼ ► take so much more developments into it and like do you think a startup is going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1586">TS</a>]
00:26:30 ◼ ► to be able to do that and you know a company with like two people they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1590">TS</a>]
00:26:33 ◼ ► going to have to to do all this work to get something to work on this Windows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1593">TS</a>]
00:26:37 ◼ ► unified platform it's it's it's just not realistic to think about it least right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1597">TS</a>]
00:26:42 ◼ ► now so I don't know you know who in their right mind would actually argue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1602">TS</a>]
00:26:47 ◼ ► that that we can live in that world right now just weekends and you know to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1607">TS</a>]
00:26:52 ◼ ► me I have always said you know question I've tried to you know my whole writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1612">TS</a>]
00:26:58 ◼ ► career is what is design what does it mean and it's hard it's hard to really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1618">TS</a>]
00:27:03 ◼ ► nail it down but the best explanation I've ever come up with this design is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1623">TS</a>]
00:27:08 ◼ ► making decisions to solve problems it's the decision-making and I'll go back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1628">TS</a>]
00:27:15 ◼ ► when they unveiled the surface strategy and they came out with two they had the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1635">TS</a>]
00:27:21 ◼ ► surface that runs real windows and can have you know traditional Windows apps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1641">TS</a>]
00:27:25 ◼ ► and it runs on Intel chips the surface pro it was great and then there's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1645">TS</a>]
00:27:29 ◼ ► surface RT which was the more iPad style one which ran on arm and was thinner and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1649">TS</a>]
00:27:34 ◼ ► lighter but only ran into the Metro apps to me that's a failure of the design it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1654">TS</a>]
00:27:42 ◼ ► both are reasonable strategies but you can't ship both right there was just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1662">TS</a>]
00:27:51 ◼ ► it's nowhere near as profound difference but I know for a fact that I'm sure you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1671">TS</a>]
00:27:57 ◼ ► I think we even talked about this but late in the game for the original iPad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1677">TS</a>]
00:28:02 ◼ ► and the original one and for the first two years had an equal with bezel all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1682">TS</a>]
00:28:08 ◼ ► the way around the screen easy to forget now with the air in the new mini [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1688">TS</a>]
00:28:12 ◼ ► and they had version with the home button where it is and then they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1692">TS</a>]
00:28:17 ◼ ► another version where the home button was on the long side and that in other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1697">TS</a>]
00:28:22 ◼ ► words that is the default orientation of an iPad for horizontal or vertical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1702">TS</a>]
00:28:27 ◼ ► landscape or portrait and they had both virgins until very late in the game and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1707">TS</a>]
00:28:34 ◼ ► only made that decision at the end and in fact if I'm not mistaken I'm sure if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1714">TS</a>]
00:28:40 ◼ ► I am that I get better but I'm pretty sure that the coordinate system of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1720">TS</a>]
00:28:44 ◼ ► iPad for developers I don't even know if it still has the same but it is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1724">TS</a>]
00:28:49 ◼ ► coordinate system was such that the 00 point made it seem as though the home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1729">TS</a>]
00:28:54 ◼ ► button should be on the long side not the short side they didn't ship both of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1734">TS</a>]
00:28:59 ◼ ► those who hate they didn't say hey if you want an iPad figure out which way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1739">TS</a>]
00:29:04 ◼ ► you want to hold it and you know most of the time and by the one with the home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1744">TS</a>]
00:29:08 ◼ ► button as such they shipped one they had to decide you know and I know that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1748">TS</a>]
00:29:14 ◼ ► happened to be a contentious decision within the company and it was it really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1754">TS</a>]
00:29:18 ◼ ► was like you know like a 51 to 49 type thing and I you know surely you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1758">TS</a>]
00:29:25 ◼ ► because it when it came out that the deciding vote came down to two Steve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1765">TS</a>]
00:29:29 ◼ ► Jobs but it was you know a lot of people on both sides but I don't think anybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1769">TS</a>]
00:29:34 ◼ ► even the people who wanted it on the other side you know the other location [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1774">TS</a>]
00:29:38 ◼ ► nobody would have endorsed the idea of shipping both you know and I feel like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1778">TS</a>]
00:29:42 ◼ ► that's what that surface pro vs surface RT is that there were people within the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1782">TS</a>]
00:29:46 ◼ ► company wanted it one way and people who wanted it the other and so they said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1786">TS</a>]
00:29:50 ◼ ► okay let's make everybody happy will ship both yeah I wonder if if if sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1790">TS</a>]
00:29:55 ◼ ► bombers thought on that was like look we're already behind in this space let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1795">TS</a>]
00:30:00 ◼ ► just get both out there and see which works if if any of them work and maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1800">TS</a>]
00:30:04 ◼ ► so but let the masses decide what they want since were we really can't afford [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1804">TS</a>]
00:30:08 ◼ ► to make make a one bed here but you know I can't imagine that is how they played [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1808">TS</a>]
00:30:15 ◼ ► out because of course they took it was in the 900 million dollar right down the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1815">TS</a>]
00:30:21 ◼ ► is very detrimental to their that one quarter where it basically saying can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1821">TS</a>]
00:30:25 ◼ ► take their entire quarter so and that's not bombers as we just talked about you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1825">TS</a>]
00:30:29 ◼ ► know he's he's the business delivered his numbers and that was the one quarter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1829">TS</a>]
00:30:33 ◼ ► he did really awful on a billion here a billion there actually do have a problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1833">TS</a>]
00:30:38 ◼ ► no matter how big you are ya right let me take a break here and thank our first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1838">TS</a>]
00:30:42 ◼ ► punch her first sponsor is our good friends at Squarespace you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1842">TS</a>]
00:30:47 ◼ ► Squarespace Squarespace is constantly improving their platform with new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1847">TS</a>]
00:30:51 ◼ ► features new designs and even better support beautiful designs for you to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1851">TS</a>]
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00:31:07 ◼ ► week if a hundred employees on this customer care team alone based in New [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1867">TS</a>]
00:31:12 ◼ ► York it's an amazing thing that separates support alone is one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1872">TS</a>]
00:31:20 ◼ ► services plans start at just $1 a month and includes a FREE domain name if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1880">TS</a>]
00:31:25 ◼ ► sign up for a year eight bucks a month for a top-notch platform for launching a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1885">TS</a>]
00:31:29 ◼ ► website you can start a trial with no credit card required pretrial right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1889">TS</a>]
00:31:38 ◼ ► and that I just noticed from another sponsor another thing earlier and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1898">TS</a>]
00:31:42 ◼ ► that no credit card required is a big deal because everybody knows if you free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1902">TS</a>]
00:31:45 ◼ ► trial requires a credit card that means if you forget to cancel your gonna start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1905">TS</a>]
00:31:49 ◼ ► getting charged and then you got a deal with that no credit card required free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1909">TS</a>]
00:31:53 ◼ ► try you don't start paying you don't give her credit card till you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1913">TS</a>]
00:31:57 ◼ ► pay and when that happens when you do want to pay to use the offer code bond B [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1917">TS</a>]
00:32:03 ◼ ► O N D and your get 10% off your purchase and they'll know you came from the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1923">TS</a>]
00:32:10 ◼ ► my thanks to Squarespace go to Squarespace dot com and remember the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1930">TS</a>]
00:32:18 ◼ ► a pic they're doing like these cutie codes were they pick things that are of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1938">TS</a>]
00:32:22 ◼ ► interest to this post to the show but it's easy to remember so go there and my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1942">TS</a>]
00:32:28 ◼ ► thanks to them they were done with Microsoft does that mean it's gonna be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1948">TS</a>]
00:32:36 ◼ ► story for the next knows how many years I do that I guess the only other thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1956">TS</a>]
00:32:39 ◼ ► is the fact that that telecoms from the the server-side servers and my colleague [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1959">TS</a>]
00:32:47 ◼ ► Q branch Brent Simmons has written about it that he's really happy because he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1967">TS</a>]
00:32:50 ◼ ► done a lot of coating on Azure you know as a backend for an iOS developer and is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1970">TS</a>]
00:32:57 ◼ ► his point I thought was really really astute where the old Microsoft was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1977">TS</a>]
00:33:02 ◼ ► always in their own universe technically and you know and it worked out for them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1982">TS</a>]
00:33:06 ◼ ► but you know they wrote everything was there that was their own OS their own [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1986">TS</a>]
00:33:10 ◼ ► kernel you know they're the only ones in in the world who you know the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1990">TS</a>]
00:33:16 ◼ ► world effectively gone UNIX and Mac OS 10 is Unix Linux is a clone of Unix [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/1996">TS</a>]
00:33:22 ◼ ► Android runs on Linux kernel and add the kernel level you know everybody whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2002">TS</a>]
00:33:29 ◼ ► world went UNIX except you know if your TiVo runs and Virgin Atlantic's except [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2009">TS</a>]
00:33:34 ◼ ► Windows Windows is like this alternate universe it's this everything was their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2014">TS</a>]
00:33:39 ◼ ► own their own programming languages their own API's everything that a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2019">TS</a>]
00:33:45 ◼ ► technical leader in networking their own mail server you know everybody else is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2025">TS</a>]
00:33:49 ◼ ► using IMAP they have Outlook you know it's all proprietary that was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2029">TS</a>]
00:33:52 ◼ ► Microsoft Way and it you know a little bit of stubbornness strategically it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2032">TS</a>]
00:33:59 ◼ ► the windows server division than $1 and is very different you know they they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2039">TS</a>]
00:34:05 ◼ ► support you know you can do things like you know really hip modern stuff like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2045">TS</a>]
00:34:10 ◼ ► node.js and how do people say that they say the dot dot Jas you know yeah and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2050">TS</a>]
00:34:20 ◼ ► wonder so you know you'd you'd hope that that mentality sort of spreads to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2060">TS</a>]
00:34:25 ◼ ► other divisions now and they sort of Microsoft Certified opens up I think you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2065">TS</a>]
00:34:29 ◼ ► know if if they are going to do that Dell is obviously the right person to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2069">TS</a>]
00:34:32 ◼ ► make that happen I think that he recognizes it is realistic about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2072">TS</a>]
00:34:36 ◼ ► world that we live in the world Microsoft exists and now and it can't be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2076">TS</a>]
00:34:40 ◼ ► the siloed behemoth anymore because that is the way that's the way forward of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2080">TS</a>]
00:34:47 ◼ ► know the company eventually you know finding hard times very hard times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2087">TS</a>]
00:34:52 ◼ ► potentially while you know we talked about the numbers are great now you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2092">TS</a>]
00:34:57 ◼ ► the numbers can be deceiving a lot of times the numbers are great for Nokia [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2097">TS</a>]
00:35:01 ◼ ► the numbers are great for RIM leading up to win over said they're not great and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2101">TS</a>]
00:35:06 ◼ ► you could argue that microsoft certainly has a lot of the characteristics of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2106">TS</a>]
00:35:10 ◼ ► those same companies even when posting great numbers because there's a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2110">TS</a>]
00:35:16 ◼ ► things that can happen that can make the ship sort of start to sink really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2116">TS</a>]
00:35:20 ◼ ► quickly and the della is given sort of all the stuff that you're talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2120">TS</a>]
00:35:25 ◼ ► and his his willingness to realize the world that we live in now I think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2125">TS</a>]
00:35:31 ◼ ► he is probably the best candidates is sort of try to wake of Microsoft up yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2131">TS</a>]
00:35:37 ◼ ► I think numbers financial numbers are and I don't think there's any kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2137">TS</a>]
00:35:41 ◼ ► deep inside and it is common sense but it it seems like an awful lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2141">TS</a>]
00:35:45 ◼ ► can be pulled by there a lagging indicator not a leading indicator right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2145">TS</a>]
00:35:50 ◼ ► so the iPhone didn't make a huge dent financially for a ball for a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2150">TS</a>]
00:35:57 ◼ ► years you know it happened pretty quickly but certainly 2007 it it was not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2157">TS</a>]
00:36:03 ◼ ► a significant financial thing I mean the whole thing was a wedding their goal for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2163">TS</a>]
00:36:07 ◼ ► the first year as a selling one million phones yep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2167">TS</a>]
00:36:10 ◼ ► and you know a lot of people thought that was a lot of people thought they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2170">TS</a>]
00:36:15 ◼ ► weren't gonna do it or whether was it ten million in the first appearance may [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2175">TS</a>]
00:36:18 ◼ ► be going in for the year maybe was for the year but yeah he did state that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2178">TS</a>]
00:36:22 ◼ ► million thing he wanted to get that there was a certain percentage that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2182">TS</a>]
00:36:26 ◼ ► were trying to hit one percent of the phone market that's right it took a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2186">TS</a>]
00:36:33 ◼ ► little bit and if you just looked at how many phones they were selling when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2193">TS</a>]
00:36:37 ◼ ► first iPhone came out it was not that huge and conversely RIM had a great year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2197">TS</a>]
00:36:45 ◼ ► in 2007 and 2008 Nokia was still good I was in the research on an an article on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2205">TS</a>]
00:36:51 ◼ ► writing maybe we'll talk about it later in the show the same same subject but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2211">TS</a>]
00:36:55 ◼ ► just about that same subject leading numbers as a leading lagging indicator [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2215">TS</a>]
00:37:00 ◼ ► in October of 2007 here is a headline in the New York Times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2220">TS</a>]
00:37:06 ◼ ► this is five or six months after their iPhone shipped Nokia profit soars as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2226">TS</a>]
00:37:12 ◼ ► marketshare need nears 40 percent right you know the numbers are not I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2232">TS</a>]
00:37:26 ◼ ► who when Microsoft CFO step down early right and what did you write about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2246">TS</a>]
00:37:32 ◼ ► I thought that was just remember that really stuck out my mind I think I said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2252">TS</a>]
00:37:37 ◼ ► using the game of Thrones analogy like who is who is best poised to know when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2257">TS</a>]
00:37:44 ◼ ► the CFO right who is second best to know the CEO and so both of those guys are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2264">TS</a>]
00:37:49 ◼ ► gone right that this you know if there's anybody in Microsoft who maybe had a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2269">TS</a>]
00:37:56 ◼ ► good smell something in the air that you know not this quarter not next quarter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2276">TS</a>]
00:38:03 ◼ ► yeah let's start looking at talking about years rather than quarters and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2283">TS</a>]
00:38:08 ◼ ► maybe look one or two years ahead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2288">TS</a>]
00:38:10 ◼ ► you know trouble is brewing very likely would have been the CFO he got out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2290">TS</a>]
00:38:16 ◼ ► Dodge did ended by the way he i think he said at the time and Microsoft statement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2296">TS</a>]
00:38:22 ◼ ► at the time was it you know he was taking some he's been in the in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2302">TS</a>]
00:38:27 ◼ ► ranks for you know thirty forty years or whatever it was and he is finally ready [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2307">TS</a>]
00:38:33 ◼ ► to just take time and be with his family indefinitely and I think four months [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2313">TS</a>]
00:38:37 ◼ ► later he was in a new CNN right and that does get back down to the those those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2317">TS</a>]
00:38:44 ◼ ► very simple PR optics of executive shake-ups a big companies that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2324">TS</a>]
00:38:49 ◼ ► you always say that you never want to make it look like there's any kind you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2329">TS</a>]
00:38:55 ◼ ► know no matter how ugly it is you want to downplay the ugliness [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2335">TS</a>]
00:38:59 ◼ ► you know and that's true for all companies are not just laughing at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2339">TS</a>]
00:39:01 ◼ ► Microsoft mean it's the same way when forestall got pushed out at Apple and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2341">TS</a>]
00:39:08 ◼ ► they were a little bit little bit honest about it with the whole increased [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2348">TS</a>]
00:39:13 ◼ ► collaboration you know which is right exactly where they were indirectly on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2353">TS</a>]
00:39:18 ◼ ► this they did say that for so was was the problem but they indicated there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2358">TS</a>]
00:39:23 ◼ ► a problem with you know with everyone sort of being on the same page right you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2363">TS</a>]
00:39:28 ◼ ► could read between the lines in it came out that those of us who are left are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2368">TS</a>]
00:39:33 ◼ ► gonna get along a lot better now have you heard of anything from about him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2373">TS</a>]
00:39:38 ◼ ► recently by the way no I have not as you I haven't either no I would assume you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2378">TS</a>]
00:39:43 ◼ ► know like the way that these deals usually are structured is that someone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2383">TS</a>]
00:39:48 ◼ ► is you know being shown the door but at the same time they've somewhat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2388">TS</a>]
00:39:52 ◼ ► proprietary information and knowledge about especially with Apple with top [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2392">TS</a>]
00:39:56 ◼ ► secret things sort of being worked on that Apple certainly doesn't want them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2396">TS</a>]
00:40:00 ◼ ► going to a competitor and really doesn't want them out on the marketplace at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2400">TS</a>]
00:40:04 ◼ ► and so you know they usually give them some sort of exit package which is very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2404">TS</a>]
00:40:10 ◼ ► well you know compensated for ensuring that they stay with the company for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2410">TS</a>]
00:40:14 ◼ ► something like a year sometimes more sometimes less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2414">TS</a>]
00:40:17 ◼ ► I think Tony Fadell may have had the same type of thing you know he's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2417">TS</a>]
00:40:21 ◼ ► Fidelis was not as contentious no definitely not I think that that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2421">TS</a>]
00:40:25 ◼ ► hundred percent true but you know he was you know as forestall I believe is now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2425">TS</a>]
00:40:29 ◼ ► special advisor to the CEO or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2429">TS</a>]
00:40:32 ◼ ► yeah I don't know if you still is or not it's it's you know they they never named [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2432">TS</a>]
00:40:35 ◼ ► it what is period was I have heard I have not heard what he's up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2435">TS</a>]
00:40:39 ◼ ► I have heard from a pretty good little birdie that yeah they exactly what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2439">TS</a>]
00:40:48 ◼ ► you're saying is did but that he was offered what in never forget the words a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2448">TS</a>]
00:40:52 ◼ ► truckload of money and you drive off in this truck full of cash and four acts he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2452">TS</a>]
00:41:03 ◼ ► did not know is how how long axis has gas was a year but maybe it's never over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2463">TS</a>]
00:41:08 ◼ ► the next year for the next year you do nothing you cannot work for anybody and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2468">TS</a>]
00:41:13 ◼ ► you cannot speak to anybody and you don't treat you don't have a facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2473">TS</a>]
00:41:19 ◼ ► you you know anybody in a reporter's call you you don't answer the phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2479">TS</a>]
00:41:24 ◼ ► not just talk about Apple but anything right so I do think that that's what has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2484">TS</a>]
00:41:29 ◼ ► happened in the interesting thing now of course is that it has been a year it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2489">TS</a>]
00:41:32 ◼ ► it's it's just over a year right now it was yeah it's like December so it's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2492">TS</a>]
00:41:37 ◼ ► know i i i remembered looking it up for the date and I knew that it was after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2497">TS</a>]
00:41:42 ◼ ► all of the product announcements [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2502">TS</a>]
00:41:45 ◼ ► you know right it was the Tide's a slow period [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2505">TS</a>]
00:41:49 ◼ ► yeah I forgot it was November or December but it was somewhere around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2509">TS</a>]
00:41:52 ◼ ► there and I ever since then I've sort of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2512">TS</a>]
00:41:56 ◼ ► just so you know double check to make sure that he hasn't started you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2516">TS</a>]
00:42:01 ◼ ► maybe showing up at events and stuff like that but so far I've heard nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2521">TS</a>]
00:42:06 ◼ ► I heard from a one reader who saw him somewhere wasn't you know was just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2526">TS</a>]
00:42:11 ◼ ► thinking it's like he's not you know housebound is not under house arrest but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2531">TS</a>]
00:42:18 ◼ ► yeah it's so I do think that we will see him surface at some point in the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2538">TS</a>]
00:42:22 ◼ ► few months I do wonder you know he's he's a rhodes of the young guy that he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2542">TS</a>]
00:42:26 ◼ ► could definitely do a startup if he wanted to he would certainly have no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2546">TS</a>]
00:42:29 ◼ ► problem getting any funding that he wanted he said he's 41 something he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2549">TS</a>]
00:42:33 ◼ ► right around my age very very one of the weird what if one of the weird wild [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2553">TS</a>]
00:42:38 ◼ ► cards is to sort of take us to be together what if Microsoft tries to hire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2558">TS</a>]
00:42:41 ◼ ► you know a lot of people that's like a frequently asked question in my reader [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2561">TS</a>]
00:42:46 ◼ ► email is not now but during the whole run-up was would that be possible I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2566">TS</a>]
00:42:53 ◼ ► guess it's not impossible but I always thought that it wasn't a good match for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2573">TS</a>]
00:42:57 ◼ ► either company just because they're so different right in pretty much every way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2577">TS</a>]
00:43:02 ◼ ► right and I don't think that he would want to I would imagine he would do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2582">TS</a>]
00:43:08 ◼ ► something more like a lot more like Tony Fadell go get some funding and start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2588">TS</a>]
00:43:14 ◼ ► something new that would be obviously you know nasty came you know relatively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2594">TS</a>]
00:43:19 ◼ ► big relatively quickly sold for over three billion dollars which is you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2599">TS</a>]
00:43:25 ◼ ► talking billions not millions pretty good deal but compared the Apple where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2605">TS</a>]
00:43:30 ◼ ► fidel was before very very small right but you can't start something that right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2610">TS</a>]
00:43:35 ◼ ► you can either start something new that's relatively small even if it has a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2615">TS</a>]
00:43:38 ◼ ► lot of investment and very big goals or you can step into an existing giant and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2618">TS</a>]
00:43:44 ◼ ► I i just don't see forestall stepping into an existing giant I guess I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2624">TS</a>]
00:43:51 ◼ ► maybe the only one I could see and I have no idea what he'll do any insight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2631">TS</a>]
00:43:56 ◼ ► into the only real knowledge of what's going on but I wouldn't be shocked if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2636">TS</a>]
00:44:01 ◼ ► somehow Facebook convinced him to come there and to do some sort of skunkworks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2641">TS</a>]
00:44:07 ◼ ► that you know that he would be best suited for it just like you feel when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2647">TS</a>]
00:44:12 ◼ ► see I see Facebook do sort of these deals a lot where they'd a higher sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2652">TS</a>]
00:44:16 ◼ ► of above what you think their weight should be right where they they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2656">TS</a>]
00:44:19 ◼ ► convinced these people to get in there and and sort of work on these projects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2659">TS</a>]
00:44:23 ◼ ► and just give them whatever resources they need and so that wouldn't actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2663">TS</a>]
00:44:28 ◼ ► shocked me even though that would be a shot sort of a shocking headline I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2668">TS</a>]
00:44:30 ◼ ► wouldn't be so surprised by the Yeah Yeah I think I would see it more really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2670">TS</a>]
00:44:35 ◼ ► only one more as Facebook incubating aid and ambitious new division i-aa not that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2675">TS</a>]
00:44:44 ◼ ► he would step in and run anything that Facebook already has yeah I could see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2684">TS</a>]
00:44:48 ◼ ► that I would say that is one existing company that I could see him going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2688">TS</a>]
00:44:52 ◼ ► couldn't see him going to Google couldn't Microsoft I just don't see it a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2692">TS</a>]
00:44:56 ◼ ► really down adjusted to seems like it's it's intriguing that think about it but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2696">TS</a>]
00:45:00 ◼ ► I just don't see how it really match would have matched up for either of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2700">TS</a>]
00:45:03 ◼ ► yet agree I largely agree with that i think you know the only reason I bring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2703">TS</a>]
00:45:07 ◼ ► it up now is just because the new leadership saying you know like maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2707">TS</a>]
00:45:10 ◼ ► maybe he's able to be convinced that things are really going to do they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2710">TS</a>]
00:45:14 ◼ ► really want to change things and so you know this is how we get this is how much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2714">TS</a>]
00:45:18 ◼ ► we want to change things were bringing in a guy synonymous with sort of apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2718">TS</a>]
00:45:22 ◼ ► and and one of Steve Jobs lieutenant from the next days you know it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2722">TS</a>]
00:45:27 ◼ ► show you how different were thinking here's a question i've i've thought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2727">TS</a>]
00:45:31 ◼ ► about and to me I don't know I don't really mean it as a joke I actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2731">TS</a>]
00:45:35 ◼ ► actually makes me a little sad is did you think Scott Forstall upgraded his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2735">TS</a>]
00:45:40 ◼ ► phone to iOS 7 that's a very good it is funny but he's still wouldn't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2740">TS</a>]
00:45:49 ◼ ► write like there's you could still get away with running well as the last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2749">TS</a>]
00:45:53 ◼ ► version of 66 but he'd have to also be running an old iPhone 5 can't you can't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2753">TS</a>]
00:45:58 ◼ ► use an iPhone 5s and it did he get a five ass after like buy it online I he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2758">TS</a>]
00:46:06 ◼ ► seems like a green five see gardener but I i I know it is it's funny but it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2766">TS</a>]
00:46:14 ◼ ► I've met forestall a few types can say I'm close to home but I've met him he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2774">TS</a>]
00:46:18 ◼ ► was always very nice to me and you know i i liked him right and you know I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2778">TS</a>]
00:46:27 ◼ ► I would also say that are clearly I'm a big fan of his work and wow you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2787">TS</a>]
00:46:31 ◼ ► whether it was the right move or not to squeeze them out is almost beside the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2791">TS</a>]
00:46:35 ◼ ► point I just feel bad that it didn't work out I do in a certain way and I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2795">TS</a>]
00:46:40 ◼ ► imagine it if it was his life's work i mean the only thing he ever did was work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2800">TS</a>]
00:46:44 ◼ ► it next it went right from college to next and worked his way up and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2804">TS</a>]
00:46:49 ◼ ► it was a continuous thing for his entire adult life working from next to Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2809">TS</a>]
00:46:56 ◼ ► and Mac OS 10 transition to Mac OS 10 to the entire creation of iOS and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2816">TS</a>]
00:47:05 ◼ ► I think very clearly they took iOS in a different direction and so yeah he'd be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2825">TS</a>]
00:47:10 ◼ ► using it everyday and staring at like the cause of his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2830">TS</a>]
00:47:13 ◼ ► what else what else is he going to do is not gonna switch to Android surely he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2833">TS</a>]
00:47:17 ◼ ► still is using an iPhone I think I think I can imagine my only real like I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2837">TS</a>]
00:47:23 ◼ ► don't think I've ever interacted with I don't think in all the time we get all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2843">TS</a>]
00:47:26 ◼ ► the different events I don't think I ever actually spoke with him but I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2846">TS</a>]
00:47:29 ◼ ► seen him of course of number of times and actually saw him out in about once [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2849">TS</a>]
00:47:33 ◼ ► at a concert of all places and I just remember might might might lasting sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2853">TS</a>]
00:47:38 ◼ ► of memory of that is it's him just like being very adamant about taking so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2858">TS</a>]
00:47:45 ◼ ► pictures using his iPhone and you know that leads me to believe that even if he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2865">TS</a>]
00:47:49 ◼ ► hates I was seven he has to like the iPhone 5 just for the better camera [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2869">TS</a>]
00:47:53 ◼ ► might be just using it solely for the camera and willing to forego his sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2873">TS</a>]
00:47:59 ◼ ► hatred if he has a 79 surely up until when the iPhone 5s came out he'd never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2879">TS</a>]
00:48:07 ◼ ► bought an iPhone in his life i mean he'd been using the new ones you know as soon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2887">TS</a>]
00:48:11 ◼ ► as they were you know prototypes were in from the factory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2891">TS</a>]
00:48:16 ◼ ► you know and and presumably every single detail in pixel of the OS met with his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2896">TS</a>]
00:48:24 ◼ ► approval or at least you know he'd gotten his input into a now to me it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2904">TS</a>]
00:48:33 ◼ ► magnuson area what does he do go online and do it and he can't go to an Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2913">TS</a>]
00:48:37 ◼ ► store right so he's gotta go online or maybe no maybe as an assistant or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2917">TS</a>]
00:48:45 ◼ ► something you know this is like the end of Shawshank Redemption [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2925">TS</a>]
00:48:51 ◼ ► like this is not but it's more like the character the old man who sort of gets [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2931">TS</a>]
00:48:57 ◼ ► reintroduced into the world after all the years and right in prison for hate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2937">TS</a>]
00:49:02 ◼ ► it and use it doesn't know how to do anything right and it's a hasn't seen a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2942">TS</a>]
00:49:06 ◼ ► supermarket with with OCR scanners [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2946">TS</a>]
00:49:09 ◼ ► was it had the thing with george bush the first george bush president has he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2949">TS</a>]
00:49:14 ◼ ► been a vice president for like you know from Mike 1980 and then he was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2954">TS</a>]
00:49:18 ◼ ► president and then you know it came out like when he's running against clinton [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2958">TS</a>]
00:49:21 ◼ ► in ninety-three he'd never seen a OCR scanner in a supermarket why make fun of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2961">TS</a>]
00:49:26 ◼ ► him for that guides you know hadn't done grocery shopping to what did you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2966">TS</a>]
00:49:30 ◼ ► that the vice president does grocery shopping now so be you know last time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2970">TS</a>]
00:49:35 ◼ ► he'd been in the supermarket was like 1979 I don't know I just to his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2975">TS</a>]
00:49:42 ◼ ► something to imagine I don't know I'm betting he does I'm betting he's alive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2982">TS</a>]
00:49:46 ◼ ► everybody does to think it would be hard I think it also would be very hard for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2986">TS</a>]
00:49:53 ◼ ► someone like him to use old technology when he's been so bleeding edge of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2993">TS</a>]
00:49:58 ◼ ► be frustrating but he's like in a unique situation where you know that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/2998">TS</a>]
00:50:04 ◼ ► what-ifs we'll never stop in terms of you know what he's got this hand but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3004">TS</a>]
00:50:09 ◼ ► that's my guess my guess is he has a 5s 2007 and just see this might even run I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3009">TS</a>]
00:50:16 ◼ ► was seven that one because it's finally doesn't crash that raises another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3016">TS</a>]
00:50:23 ◼ ► question do these sign up for a developer is shirley is old one doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3023">TS</a>]
00:50:28 ◼ ► work he's can't you know I'm pretty sure that you know that is cut off from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3028">TS</a>]
00:50:36 ◼ ► do that and you think like he's been tinkering around with making some apps I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3036">TS</a>]
00:50:42 ◼ ► wonder why don't I mean it's absolutely the case I don't think that he was spent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3042">TS</a>]
00:50:46 ◼ ► his days as a senior VP writing code but I mean he you know that's he worked his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3046">TS</a>]
00:50:52 ◼ ► way up from the right yeah I remember there was it was it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3052">TS</a>]
00:50:57 ◼ ► WWDC session a couple years ago and it's sort of an obscure one and I forget who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3057">TS</a>]
00:51:03 ◼ ► is leading it but I was sitting in the audience and it was but the guy on stage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3063">TS</a>]
00:51:09 ◼ ► was an old next and what he's doing is still just an engineer senior engineer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3069">TS</a>]
00:51:14 ◼ ► at our bond is given the WBC presentation he was talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3074">TS</a>]
00:51:16 ◼ ► something and iOS that was maybe it was back those 10 but either way that had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3076">TS</a>]
00:51:22 ◼ ► roots back to an old thing that he had done it next in 1989 and he's here and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3082">TS</a>]
00:51:28 ◼ ► show you what I did and then I wrote 1989 milos next and you know you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3088">TS</a>]
00:51:33 ◼ ► see the roots are here today and he was like here's the about box from the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3093">TS</a>]
00:51:38 ◼ ► I wrote then and it was the credits for him and Scott Forstall I don't happen to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3098">TS</a>]
00:51:43 ◼ ► the other guy and is enforced always till the senior VP was spent last year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3103">TS</a>]
00:51:49 ◼ ► but it was a big big belly laugh at the audience yes he was he was listed second [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3109">TS</a>]
00:51:56 ◼ ► cuz he was like an intern or something but you know he was writing code I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3116">TS</a>]
00:52:01 ◼ ► know could be yeah it would be interesting if he came out with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3121">TS</a>]
00:52:07 ◼ ► something if he you know came out you know D cloaked with some kind of start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3127">TS</a>]
00:52:11 ◼ ► up that was iOS related and so he's always been a software guy so you'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3131">TS</a>]
00:52:19 ◼ ► assume he's not going to do sort of the Tony Fadell you know start up so he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3139">TS</a>]
00:52:24 ◼ ► would do more of a software type start-up you wouldn't you would assume [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3144">TS</a>]
00:52:26 ◼ ► maybe he's maybe he would pair up with someone who has sort of hardware [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3146">TS</a>]
00:52:30 ◼ ► experience and certainly there are plenty of Acts Apple people now with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3150">TS</a>]
00:52:35 ◼ ► hardware experience that he would know but if he were to do something by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3155">TS</a>]
00:52:38 ◼ ► himself it would presumably be something and software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3158">TS</a>]
00:52:42 ◼ ► I don't know good question I take a break and thank my second sponsor and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3162">TS</a>]
00:52:54 ◼ ► is our good friends at pack place back place is unlimited on throttled back up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3174">TS</a>]
00:53:04 ◼ ► for $5 a month they have an iOS app for Mac install back plays on your Mac it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3184">TS</a>]
00:53:10 ◼ ► a little just a simple little thing that goes in System Preferences runs in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3190">TS</a>]
00:53:15 ◼ ► background uploads everything on your Mac that you want if you have something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3195">TS</a>]
00:53:20 ◼ ► you don't want backed up is easy to make exclusion folders everything you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3200">TS</a>]
00:53:24 ◼ ► backed up though goes to their thing in the cloud $5 a month as much space as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3204">TS</a>]
00:53:29 ◼ ► you have in your Mac back at all just takes longer for the first backup that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3209">TS</a>]
00:53:33 ◼ ► the only there is no catch even iOS app that you can use to access and share any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3213">TS</a>]
00:53:39 ◼ ► of your files so when you're out about you can fire up the app on your iPhone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3219">TS</a>]
00:53:42 ◼ ► get anything that's on your Mac cuz its mirrored in the cloud their profile look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3222">TS</a>]
00:53:47 ◼ ► something up its founded by X Apple engineers I always emphasized this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3227">TS</a>]
00:53:52 ◼ ► because it is written by people who you know knowing get the Mac it doesn't feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3232">TS</a>]
00:53:58 ◼ ► like some kind of foreign thing that was ported to Mac runs great on Mavericks up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3238">TS</a>]
00:54:03 ◼ ► to date there's no add-ons no gimmicks no additional charges you just sign up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3243">TS</a>]
00:54:08 ◼ ► you can sub start your free give it a try see that it works like a two-week [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3248">TS</a>]
00:54:15 ◼ ► and then when you're ready to go when you see how it works $5 a month per [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3255">TS</a>]
00:54:22 ◼ ► the simplest online backup program to use just install it does the rest and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3262">TS</a>]
00:54:27 ◼ ► always emphasized this it's such peace of mind I'm happy back plz user and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3267">TS</a>]
00:54:34 ◼ ► it is it's such a peace of mind to have a backup that's off site because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3274">TS</a>]
00:54:40 ◼ ► just never know you know fire theft like I said I pointed out when marco was on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3280">TS</a>]
00:54:45 ◼ ► the show the other week you know the things you don't even think of light [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3285">TS</a>]
00:54:49 ◼ ► water damage like a pipe in the ceiling above your computer is and then and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3289">TS</a>]
00:54:53 ◼ ► somebody some reader wrote in and said that exact scenario happened to them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3293">TS</a>]
00:54:57 ◼ ► where they're upstairs neighbor left their tub running and he came in and his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3297">TS</a>]
00:55:01 ◼ ► MacBook was just completely drenched you know by the gallons of water just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3301">TS</a>]
00:55:06 ◼ ► completely fried everything on his desk is hard drive so if you have like a time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3306">TS</a>]
00:55:11 ◼ ► machine hard drive next year that's good but it's not off-site back boys gives [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3311">TS</a>]
00:55:17 ◼ ► you peace of mind really great service where do you go to find out more go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3317">TS</a>]
00:55:22 ◼ ► www.blackberry.com / daring fireball and don't know you came from here and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3322">TS</a>]
00:55:34 ◼ ► they came from the show and can recommend them enough really really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3334">TS</a>]
00:55:40 ◼ ► about Facebook paper yes I have not reviewed you don't have facebook yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3340">TS</a>]
00:55:54 ◼ ► this is the dilemma and explain why I have not written about this much under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3354">TS</a>]
00:55:58 ◼ ► incredible I have never signed up for Facebook still haven't have never been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3358">TS</a>]
00:56:05 ◼ ► tempted to until now because I'm tempted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3365">TS</a>]
00:56:09 ◼ ► Facebook just use paper and in fact I i've been talking about this for longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3369">TS</a>]
00:56:15 ◼ ► than just the last week because I actually got a briefing from Facebook in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3375">TS</a>]
00:56:21 ◼ ► New York a week or two before paper came out they you know Mike Mathis emailed me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3381">TS</a>]
00:56:26 ◼ ► and said hey you know I got 55 got something to show you know what might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3386">TS</a>]
00:56:31 ◼ ► come up and see you in New York as I sure and i was just blown away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3391">TS</a>]
00:56:35 ◼ ► absolutely positive I haven't written about it because I don't know how to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3395">TS</a>]
00:56:38 ◼ ► contextualize it yet because I am so why don't you just make it can you make like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3398">TS</a>]
00:56:44 ◼ ► just a dummy account friend anyone just you know now you know and it's we I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3404">TS</a>]
00:56:48 ◼ ► guess that's what I should do I don't know I mean I've seen I most of my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3408">TS</a>]
00:56:51 ◼ ► experience at the apt is with Mike's account I just used my baby he just has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3411">TS</a>]
00:56:57 ◼ ► a beautiful family and that's why you're like well you know that's the pushback [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3417">TS</a>]
00:57:00 ◼ ► against it the pushback against paper that I've seen is that it's it it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3420">TS</a>]
00:57:06 ◼ ► great if your friends are all UI design artists who take great photos and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3426">TS</a>]
00:57:15 ◼ ► isn't great if you're like most people on Facebook and its family takes really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3435">TS</a>]
00:57:24 ◼ ► you know cat gifts and stuff like that so your your predicament raises an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3444">TS</a>]
00:57:31 ◼ ► interesting question which is that I wonder if Facebook is able to either for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3451">TS</a>]
00:57:37 ◼ ► the first time obviously you know that you're you're certainly an oddity in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3457">TS</a>]
00:57:41 ◼ ► in being in a developed country you know and not having having Facebook at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3461">TS</a>]
00:57:46 ◼ ► point but I wonder if they feel like it's also an opportunity to not only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3466">TS</a>]
00:57:51 ◼ ► bring in new but re-engage sort of people who are who are burnt out by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3471">TS</a>]
00:57:55 ◼ ► Facebook which is many many people I mean basically you talk to anyone in you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3475">TS</a>]
00:58:00 ◼ ► know within your own personal circles you'll have several people who say like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3480">TS</a>]
00:58:05 ◼ ► Facebook is so lame now Facebook is sort of it's all just you know it's also my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3485">TS</a>]
00:58:10 ◼ ► parents or its just you know just sort of like old high school friends and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3490">TS</a>]
00:58:16 ◼ ► never talk to any more using it so it's really not that interesting to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3496">TS</a>]
00:58:19 ◼ ► anymore but paper you know is a complete reimagining of what the experience [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3499">TS</a>]
00:58:23 ◼ ► should be like and there are definitely things that I like and don't like about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3503">TS</a>]
00:58:27 ◼ ► it certainly is beautifully designed and I think there's some great functionality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3507">TS</a>]
00:58:33 ◼ ► in there but I don't really i mean week we could dive into all the little of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3513">TS</a>]
00:58:37 ◼ ► little things about it I'm a little concerned that a lot of what and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3517">TS</a>]
00:58:42 ◼ ► will know this better having talked to Mike Maddux about it directly but I'm a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3522">TS</a>]
00:58:45 ◼ ► little bit concerned that it's that it's a little bit too worried about sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3525">TS</a>]
00:58:51 ◼ ► addressing the Twitter question head-on which is you know like no one is using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3531">TS</a>]
00:58:55 ◼ ► facebook really to talk about current events or at least the right people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3535">TS</a>]
00:59:00 ◼ ► aren't using Facebook that they want to get the word out there like during the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3540">TS</a>]
00:59:04 ◼ ► Super Bowl you know like sweets are going crazy everyone's talking about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3544">TS</a>]
00:59:07 ◼ ► is anyone using facebook facebook tried to get people using it this year they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3547">TS</a>]
00:59:10 ◼ ► they'd reached out to buttress celebrities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3550">TS</a>]
00:59:13 ◼ ► document leaked you know talking about like what you should be using Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3553">TS</a>]
00:59:17 ◼ ► for during the Super Bowl in so when I look at paper when I look beyond the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3557">TS</a>]
00:59:23 ◼ ► obvious beauty on the surface I see sort of a a desire to get back into sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3563">TS</a>]
00:59:28 ◼ ► the real-time news conversation which I don't know I don't know if that's coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3568">TS</a>]
00:59:38 ◼ ► and having talked to Mike about it I don't think that's what their goal is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3578">TS</a>]
00:59:43 ◼ ► think their goal is the little bit it's almost obvious which is that in fact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3583">TS</a>]
00:59:51 ◼ ► it's a direct answer to the thing I just said a minute ago that the that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3591">TS</a>]
00:59:54 ◼ ► complaint is that people aren't cultivating what they post to Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3594">TS</a>]
00:59:58 ◼ ► to make it beautiful and papers theory is the paper teams there is nobody is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3598">TS</a>]
01:00:05 ◼ ► going to do that until we give them beautiful way a beautiful interface to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3605">TS</a>]
01:00:09 ◼ ► do it that it's it's there if we build it they will come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3609">TS</a>]
01:00:13 ◼ ► theory that they have to build a beautiful interface to paper first that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3613">TS</a>]
01:00:19 ◼ ► encourages a sort of moral I know that a lot of people are gonna laugh and say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3619">TS</a>]
01:00:26 ◼ ► come on Facebook and artistic expression [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3626">TS</a>]
01:00:28 ◼ ► you know not what it was for but that's you know that's a little bit high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3628">TS</a>]
01:00:33 ◼ ► polluting but it's more like what they're thinking that if we give him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3633">TS</a>]
01:00:36 ◼ ► this beautiful serene interface that that's why that's when people will start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3636">TS</a>]
01:00:41 ◼ ► posting things that actually fit better in paper in a little bit more cultivated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3641">TS</a>]
01:00:47 ◼ ► but curated I don't know what you want to say but that people will generate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3647">TS</a>]
01:00:52 ◼ ► content that fits in paper and fitzy feels right and paper only after paper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3652">TS</a>]
01:00:58 ◼ ► is out and actually exists that has a good old first so I don't think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3658">TS</a>]
01:01:03 ◼ ► about real-time stuff okay that's interesting so that's why I can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3663">TS</a>]
01:01:08 ◼ ► understand how I can understand that line of thinking I will say one other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3668">TS</a>]
01:01:13 ◼ ► thing that I did here so this was sort of this was being talked about in paper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3673">TS</a>]
01:01:18 ◼ ► was released in a bunch of people sort of tweeted about it I did and others but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3678">TS</a>]
01:01:23 ◼ ► have since heard from a pretty good source on this that it's also not out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3683">TS</a>]
01:01:27 ◼ ► left field to think that this is how Facebook is sort of experimenting with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3687">TS</a>]
01:01:34 ◼ ► new UI to see what would work for the actual product itself so I asked I asked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3694">TS</a>]
01:01:41 ◼ ► about that like so much of this response did you get that not a direct response [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3701">TS</a>]
01:01:46 ◼ ► and I you know so I don't put words in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3706">TS</a>]
01:01:48 ◼ ► Mikes mouth or anybody so i didnt get but you know I think reading between the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3708">TS</a>]
01:01:54 ◼ ► landing just looking at the app it is clear you know and it's exactly what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3714">TS</a>]
01:01:58 ◼ ► wrote on Paris lemon that there is no way that they could drop you know put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3718">TS</a>]
01:02:05 ◼ ► out a Facebook app version that was this and just no way too many users right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3725">TS</a>]
01:02:13 ◼ ► its two way to different and it doesn't have the complete Facebook experience it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3733">TS</a>]
01:02:18 ◼ ► doesn't have everything though it does have a lot i think is way more than I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3738">TS</a>]
01:02:22 ◼ ► thought it it's it is a very largely a you know it's you know what it's a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3742">TS</a>]
01:02:29 ◼ ► like it's a lot like mobile email clients where you know maybe your mobile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3749">TS</a>]
01:02:33 ◼ ► email client doesn't do everything that you can do with the email but it does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3753">TS</a>]
01:02:37 ◼ ► most of it right there you can do most of what you doin email with the mail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3757">TS</a>]
01:02:41 ◼ ► claim you're using on your phone even if it doesn't do everything and you might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3761">TS</a>]
01:02:45 ◼ ► have to use something at your desk to create I don't think I can you create [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3765">TS</a>]
01:02:49 ◼ ► new folders in mail are most mail apps on iphone maybe not but you know you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3769">TS</a>]
01:02:54 ◼ ► certainly read all of your mail and reply to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3774">TS</a>]
01:02:56 ◼ ► do a lot of other stuff flag comments that Facebook paper is largely a an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3776">TS</a>]
01:03:01 ◼ ► alternative to Facebook . out your phone when I already I replace facebook.com [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3781">TS</a>]
01:03:10 ◼ ► day one because it is so much better it's just a number of things are better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3790">TS</a>]
01:03:15 ◼ ► about it I find the performance actually better which is sort of surprising given [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3795">TS</a>]
01:03:19 ◼ ► how visual it is but formats is better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3799">TS</a>]
01:03:22 ◼ ► it's obviously looks a lot better and it does like you know what you're saying it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3802">TS</a>]
01:03:25 ◼ ► performs the basic sort of the high-level functions that you need the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3805">TS</a>]
01:03:29 ◼ ► one thing its missing the one complaint that people do bring up you use Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3809">TS</a>]
01:03:33 ◼ ► is that is missing events and the rumor of course is that Facebook is working on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3813">TS</a>]
01:03:38 ◼ ► a separate events at the air that's what I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3818">TS</a>]
01:03:42 ◼ ► well and I think it all it it fits and I think you know I'd certainly don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3822">TS</a>]
01:03:47 ◼ ► I don't don't know his mind but the evidence that I've seen with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3827">TS</a>]
01:03:52 ◼ ► acquisitions they've made including mattresses push pop press little over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3832">TS</a>]
01:03:59 ◼ ► two years ago when he bought so far and also knowing and you know this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3839">TS</a>]
01:04:05 ◼ ► something I can't name names but its iOS and Mac developer community they pretty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3845">TS</a>]
01:04:11 ◼ ► much went to anybody who's done like Apple Design Award level work and made a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3851">TS</a>]
01:04:21 ◼ ► there's an awful lot of an awful lot of people who you think I wonder if they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3861">TS</a>]
01:04:24 ◼ ► went to them the answer is probably yes which makes sense for them right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3864">TS</a>]
01:04:31 ◼ ► like what's the best talent in the world to do what they want to do it's right in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3871">TS</a>]
01:04:35 ◼ ► front of them right and i think that explanation is that for a while Zach had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3875">TS</a>]
01:04:40 ◼ ► in mind that Facebook was a website and that the mobile version should be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3880">TS</a>]
01:04:47 ◼ ► mobile version of that website and you know the area you know the early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3887">TS</a>]
01:04:50 ◼ ► versions of the Facebook app for iPhone where is the developer was a joke it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3890">TS</a>]
01:04:55 ◼ ► Joe Joe Hewitt you know Hewitt and he did great work and he did you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3895">TS</a>]
01:04:59 ◼ ► was you know do you do you remember the html5 version you know but yet they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3899">TS</a>]
01:05:04 ◼ ► native apps that was like the first really impresses application that I saw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3904">TS</a>]
01:05:10 ◼ ► again not a native application on the web browser built for the iPhone well so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3910">TS</a>]
01:05:14 ◼ ► London you can definitely say for the sake and Facebook is as soon as the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3914">TS</a>]
01:05:17 ◼ ► iPhone came out they instantly so we need to be on that and they did it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3917">TS</a>]
01:05:21 ◼ ► know before the Riva naps and then when there were perhaps but they do their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3921">TS</a>]
01:05:25 ◼ ► initial appt was a lot more like not native you know using web things in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3925">TS</a>]
01:05:31 ◼ ► web use and stuff like that and I feel like it like a lot of you know as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3931">TS</a>]
01:05:38 ◼ ► suggestion indication that he is a very good CEO I think Zach had a complete 180 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3938">TS</a>]
01:05:45 ◼ ► native apps matter for mobile performance for latency for just the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3945">TS</a>]
01:05:50 ◼ ► you know it it just isn't gonna work to to to be one level behind in abstraction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3950">TS</a>]
01:05:57 ◼ ► with all the little nagging things that that entails and it was like so what do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3957">TS</a>]
01:06:04 ◼ ► we do let's hire some great native app developers and designers and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3964">TS</a>]
01:06:10 ◼ ► also part of that is that you on the phone mobile in general it makes more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3970">TS</a>]
01:06:19 ◼ ► sense to have not a ton of apps but more separate apps them one app that does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3979">TS</a>]
01:06:26 ◼ ► everything especially for something the size of facebook facebook can do so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3986">TS</a>]
01:06:31 ◼ ► that you know you do events you check you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3991">TS</a>]
01:06:34 ◼ ► status updates you pictures like all these things it's like it was getting is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3994">TS</a>]
01:06:39 ◼ ► getting almost ridiculous like the side menu and that's in the previous one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/3999">TS</a>]
01:06:44 ◼ ► where it's like they're so there's so many different things that you can drill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4004">TS</a>]
01:06:47 ◼ ► down into its almost like ridiculous to try to hit some of them with with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4007">TS</a>]
01:06:50 ◼ ► fingertip right and you know take a look at apple with iTunes right now on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4010">TS</a>]
01:06:54 ◼ ► Mac and Windows and there's a large part of that is because they have to maintain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4014">TS</a>]
01:06:58 ◼ ► parity on Mac and Windows but it's a monolithic app and you know it's almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4018">TS</a>]
01:07:04 ◼ ► at this point it's almost infamous for being overloaded with responsibilities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4024">TS</a>]
01:07:11 ◼ ► and iOS they viewed and as sort of stayed with everything broken apart in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4031">TS</a>]
01:07:17 ◼ ► two separate app stores in music player app and there's a store out for buying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4037">TS</a>]
01:07:24 ◼ ► and a podcast app for podcasts and you can see you know a lot of people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4044">TS</a>]
01:07:30 ◼ ► happy with that with the podcast app adjust the fact that the way Apple sees [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4050">TS</a>]
01:07:34 ◼ ► it it should be a separate app says a lot you know the dads the way that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4054">TS</a>]
01:07:39 ◼ ► way to develop for mobile and I think Facebook has that in mind too and so did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4059">TS</a>]
01:07:43 ◼ ► you talk to us at all about the fact that it's it's obviously iPhone first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4063">TS</a>]
01:07:48 ◼ ► and iPhone or iPad right and I think it's you know it's just it's the obvious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4068">TS</a>]
01:07:54 ◼ ► that you know it took them this long to build the iPhone version and it's ready [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4074">TS</a>]
01:07:59 ◼ ► to ship and so they shipped it and you know no comment on you know whether it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4079">TS</a>]
01:08:05 ◼ ► there's going to be an iPad version or there's going to be an Android version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4085">TS</a>]
01:08:08 ◼ ► and although a I got the feeling you can quote me on it and and that's not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4088">TS</a>]
01:08:14 ◼ ► quote but I did get the feeling of that his team at least at the moment is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4094">TS</a>]
01:08:19 ◼ ► Iowa steam that they did you know that it's a relatively small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4099">TS</a>]
01:08:23 ◼ ► you know that if and when there is going to be an Android version of paper that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4103">TS</a>]
01:08:27 ◼ ► its need to expand to do it well and I i wonder if it would even be that team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4107">TS</a>]
01:08:35 ◼ ► right like if if this really is sort of thinking about this in the in the in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4115">TS</a>]
01:08:40 ◼ ► new anyway that you're suggesting sort of moving away from that this Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4120">TS</a>]
01:08:44 ◼ ► is a web site and now it's it's it's whatever it needs to be on whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4124">TS</a>]
01:08:48 ◼ ► device you're using and so you know you could certainly make the argument that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4128">TS</a>]
01:08:52 ◼ ► maybe it should be different for Android entirely then it is even right now for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4132">TS</a>]
01:08:57 ◼ ► with paper with iOS I have i think thats difference screen sizes and different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4137">TS</a>]
01:09:03 ◼ ► metaphor is indifferent you know capabilities you know I wes is is much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4143">TS</a>]
01:09:09 ◼ ► more everybody's always said that suits you know things animate smoother its has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4149">TS</a>]
01:09:17 ◼ ► when you want to do GPU and sent tens of things you you have this tremendous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4157">TS</a>]
01:09:24 ◼ ► advantage of only having to target you know two or three GPUs I don't know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4164">TS</a>]
01:09:32 ◼ ► I don't know how far back Facebook paperworks I don't know if they support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4172">TS</a>]
01:09:35 ◼ ► like before us or what the limit is but even so it's there's only three Jay even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4175">TS</a>]
01:09:39 ◼ ► if they go back all the way to do for us it's only three generations that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4179">TS</a>]
01:09:43 ◼ ► have to support and it's a very very graphically intensive at so I wonder I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4183">TS</a>]
01:09:48 ◼ ► wonder if Facebook will be sorted the first major service to go like total in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4188">TS</a>]
01:09:55 ◼ ► a totally different direction with their application for Android just because of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4195">TS</a>]
01:09:59 ◼ ► what you're talking about where madison's team is is i would assume all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4199">TS</a>]
01:10:03 ◼ ► iOS right now and they would either have to hire and sort of trained people to in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4203">TS</a>]
01:10:10 ◼ ► terms of what they built for iOS and sort of it even though it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4210">TS</a>]
01:10:13 ◼ ► technically be like a quote unquote port it would still sort of the airport right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4213">TS</a>]
01:10:17 ◼ ► it would be like right if they were going to call it paper yeah so interface [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4217">TS</a>]
01:10:23 ◼ ► and style I don't think they're gonna do I really wouldn't be surprised if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4223">TS</a>]
01:10:26 ◼ ► there's never I don't know the answer really don't i mean but my my guess is I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4226">TS</a>]
01:10:31 ◼ ► would be surprised if there's never paper for Android but like you just said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4231">TS</a>]
01:10:37 ◼ ► Facebook something else for Android that is has a different interface and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4237">TS</a>]
01:10:43 ◼ ► never exist for iOS which by the way they've done that's what Facebook home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4243">TS</a>]
01:10:47 ◼ ► was right right was right it was a hundred only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4247">TS</a>]
01:10:49 ◼ ► yeah I and maybe that's actually a good way of thinking that they've already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4249">TS</a>]
01:10:54 ◼ ► done that they've already done a friend right that doesn't exist on iOS and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4254">TS</a>]
01:10:58 ◼ ► sort of embracing rather than trying to do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4258">TS</a>]
01:11:03 ◼ ► seen them as two versions of the same idea treat them as different to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4263">TS</a>]
01:11:08 ◼ ► different things which i think is actually closer to the truth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4268">TS</a>]
01:11:12 ◼ ► yeah and don't do that way don't see this the way that Windows and Mac OS 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4272">TS</a>]
01:11:18 ◼ ► involved where a company like Adobe more or less had the exact same interface for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4278">TS</a>]
01:11:24 ◼ ► you know Photoshop and InDesign and Illustrator on Windows and Mac you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4284">TS</a>]
01:11:29 ◼ ► where the only differences were the iOS you know the specific things like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4289">TS</a>]
01:11:34 ◼ ► menu bars at the top and the Mac and menu is a window on Windows but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4294">TS</a>]
01:11:39 ◼ ► otherwise it you know they shipped at the same time they had the same features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4299">TS</a>]
01:11:44 ◼ ► they were built from the same code base I don't think that's the way to do iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4304">TS</a>]
01:11:48 ◼ ► and Android I really agree I think that the you know to too often we see these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4308">TS</a>]
01:11:54 ◼ ► companies go into it while we built the iOS version is doing great now let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4314">TS</a>]
01:11:59 ◼ ► make the Android version it's gonna be the same Instagram its exact same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4319">TS</a>]
01:12:04 ◼ ► as an example where that makes sense because it does but when you would you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4324">TS</a>]
01:12:12 ◼ ► should go into the mentality was we want to create the best application for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4332">TS</a>]
01:12:15 ◼ ► specific device rather than the other way around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4335">TS</a>]
01:12:20 ◼ ► yeah and I you know Twitter maybe as an example of doing that wrong where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4340">TS</a>]
01:12:24 ◼ ► they're sort of developing this like single-minded single Twitter interface [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4344">TS</a>]
01:12:30 ◼ ► that everywhere right you know I don't though we'll see if that continues that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4350">TS</a>]
01:12:35 ◼ ► was that was that was definitely the marching order for a long time and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4355">TS</a>]
01:12:41 ◼ ► think that a lot of that was driven by the need for simplicity cross-platform [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4361">TS</a>]
01:12:45 ◼ ► simplicity to get users to understand what what they're doing when they look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4365">TS</a>]
01:12:50 ◼ ► at one thing you know it's like oh here's where the treatment is like so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4370">TS</a>]
01:12:53 ◼ ► know what to do but I would be surprised if that's changing 250 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4373">TS</a>]
01:12:58 ◼ ► so things with paper the thing that fascinates me and it's it's there's two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4378">TS</a>]
01:13:02 ◼ ► sides to it there's one is it a good client for Facebook and that I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4382">TS</a>]
01:13:06 ◼ ► know how to judge cuz I'm gonna Facebook users so I honestly don't know how to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4386">TS</a>]
01:13:09 ◼ ► judge but two from a design perspective it is fascinating because it's it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4389">TS</a>]
01:13:18 ◼ ► almost like a real imagination of what I owe us should be it doesn't feel foreign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4398">TS</a>]
01:13:26 ◼ ► it doesn't feel wake like alien but it's definitely not standard and it's it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4406">TS</a>]
01:13:34 ◼ ► and it's it is of a piece with Mike madison's previous works and very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4414">TS</a>]
01:13:40 ◼ ► specifically with with the work they did it push pop press the only the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4420">TS</a>]
01:13:45 ◼ ► example of which we could we we saw publicly was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4425">TS</a>]
01:13:48 ◼ ► algor book our choice right which is worth but if you're an interface [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4428">TS</a>]
01:13:54 ◼ ► designer it's worth buying that not to read even if no interest in the book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4434">TS</a>]
01:13:59 ◼ ► itself it's worth buying as an example of an alternative way to think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4439">TS</a>]
01:14:04 ◼ ► touch screen design is it still it still available hope so I don't know I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4444">TS</a>]
01:14:11 ◼ ► know but this you know and I don't know how much you know you never know I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4451">TS</a>]
01:14:18 ◼ ► there is a team in his modest is not the only designer but I think the whole team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4458">TS</a>]
01:14:23 ◼ ► is on board with the philosophy and the philosophy is why I think one way to put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4463">TS</a>]
01:14:29 ◼ ► it is that it that Apple wasn't old enough with iOS right and you go back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4469">TS</a>]
01:14:36 ◼ ► all the way to Steve Jobs is 2007 unveiling of the original iPhone and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4476">TS</a>]
01:14:44 ◼ ► he spoke at the highest level was introducing in sort of framing how we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4484">TS</a>]
01:14:49 ◼ ► should think about this that it was when he sneaked snuck in the the big about a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4489">TS</a>]
01:14:56 ◼ ► 1984 we made this thing called them back and you did all this stuff visually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4496">TS</a>]
01:15:01 ◼ ► using a mouse to guide her on-screen what we gonna do for a pointer here goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4501">TS</a>]
01:15:09 ◼ ► well the stylist and everybody of course not terrible and everybody laugh because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4509">TS</a>]
01:15:14 ◼ ► stylist a piece of junk you gonna lose it nobody wants that no we're all born [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4514">TS</a>]
01:15:19 ◼ ► with a pointer right here and he stuck up his index finger right and that's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4519">TS</a>]
01:15:22 ◼ ► you know high-level that's the the breakthrough of Iowa State you just use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4522">TS</a>]
01:15:27 ◼ ► your finger and you do things so instead of having a scrollbar that you moved to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4527">TS</a>]
01:15:32 ◼ ► scroll the content you just touch the content and move it and you scroll and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4532">TS</a>]
01:15:36 ◼ ► there's not if you don't have a button you know like and you think back and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4536">TS</a>]
01:15:39 ◼ ► you know it's easy to sort of forget and you see this evolution over the years of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4539">TS</a>]
01:15:43 ◼ ► the Mac and Windows where we're like we have the wheel or the trackpad or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4543">TS</a>]
01:15:50 ◼ ► something but think back to the original Mac and the original windows before the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4550">TS</a>]
01:15:54 ◼ ► ribbon scroll Wilson license to scroll the content you had to put the cursor on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4554">TS</a>]
01:15:59 ◼ ► the arrow in the scrollbar declared or get on the elevator whatever you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4559">TS</a>]
01:16:05 ◼ ► call it and drag it and it was a complete level of abstraction that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4565">TS</a>]
01:16:12 ◼ ► had to click the button the arrow buttons to scroll it or click the actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4572">TS</a>]
01:16:15 ◼ ► click and drag the actual will to do it and iOS completely eliminated the entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4575">TS</a>]
01:16:22 ◼ ► thing where it's all just direct but in other areas it's a lot of the standard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4582">TS</a>]
01:16:29 ◼ ► iOS navigation just think about like to add that i think are very very almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4589">TS</a>]
01:16:36 ◼ ► canonical if you want to study what it is to be an iOS app mail and like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4596">TS</a>]
01:16:43 ◼ ► settings out setup is maybe the best example settings is just pure I less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4603">TS</a>]
01:16:48 ◼ ► it's a lot of buttons and even like you go into a level and then how do you go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4608">TS</a>]
01:16:53 ◼ ► back you go to the top left and there's a button and hit the back button and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4613">TS</a>]
01:16:58 ◼ ► click the tab the back button as though you use your finger to tap the button in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4618">TS</a>]
01:17:02 ◼ ► the same way that you do use a mouse pointer to click a button on an end the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4622">TS</a>]
01:17:09 ◼ ► madness philosophy and and paper really exemplifies this is that you get rid of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4629">TS</a>]
01:17:14 ◼ ► those buttons too and you just open and close things you know you can tap on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4634">TS</a>]
01:17:20 ◼ ► thing to open and close it you just squeeze it and it gets smaller and goes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4640">TS</a>]
01:17:24 ◼ ► back to the smaller state and it's not just and it's not just the obvious sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4644">TS</a>]
01:17:29 ◼ ► of or not what's been around for a while like pinch to zoom in sort of pitch to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4649">TS</a>]
01:17:33 ◼ ► close it is like a simple is sort of drag up in drag down yeah yeah so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4653">TS</a>]
01:17:38 ◼ ► don't even have to use two fingers it's that's what that's my favorite thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4658">TS</a>]
01:17:42 ◼ ► about yet where you know I'm looking at it right now and just like the sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4662">TS</a>]
01:17:46 ◼ ► bar along the bottom with the content that you scroll through it almost is in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4666">TS</a>]
01:17:52 ◼ ► a way it's like in the shape of your thumb right it's a drawing or some words [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4672">TS</a>]
01:17:57 ◼ ► place it on there and then once you do that you just sort of move up and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4677">TS</a>]
01:18:01 ◼ ► you're right into it and you can read it the entire way when it's going up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4681">TS</a>]
01:18:04 ◼ ► because it's it's just killing it right up and then to to get away you just push [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4684">TS</a>]
01:18:08 ◼ ► it back down it's it's very well done and it's very natural and it is really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4688">TS</a>]
01:18:14 ◼ ► unlike the standard system in a profound way even though it's so simple and part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4694">TS</a>]
01:18:20 ◼ ► of it there's there's a humility towards it where it's not a lot of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4700">TS</a>]
01:18:24 ◼ ► with bangs stuff that you could i mean I'm not for example I know that Matusz [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4704">TS</a>]
01:18:31 ◼ ► worked on when he was at Apple years ago worked on time machine and time machines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4711">TS</a>]
01:18:36 ◼ ► interface is look at look at this this is supposed to be like whoa right with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4716">TS</a>]
01:18:41 ◼ ► the whole windows 8 going into 3d and they're in outer space and it's like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4721">TS</a>]
01:18:47 ◼ ► is a very ostentatious design and it doesn't matter where you know whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4727">TS</a>]
01:18:51 ◼ ► you think it's a good design for for a backup system or not it's ostentatious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4731">TS</a>]
01:18:56 ◼ ► write the paper thing is is very humble and my opinion because I think normal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4736">TS</a>]
01:19:01 ◼ ► people they might think hey this is nice but they're not gonna be like wow it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4741">TS</a>]
01:19:06 ◼ ► it's you know and I mean that as a very high compliment that it's it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4746">TS</a>]
01:19:10 ◼ ► trying to show off its all and I think there's tons I know for a fact that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4750">TS</a>]
01:19:15 ◼ ► there's tons and tons of work to get these things because they're not built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4755">TS</a>]
01:19:20 ◼ ► into the system you don't get them for free from Cocoa Touch this these you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4760">TS</a>]
01:19:25 ◼ ► know opening and closing and smooth everything is super smooth all custom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4765">TS</a>]
01:19:31 ◼ ► and it's all super smooth and the big problem with any kind of high-level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4771">TS</a>]
01:19:38 ◼ ► navigate this design is that there's a very few number of gestures available [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4778">TS</a>]
01:19:45 ◼ ► and you have to allocate them you have to decide to be very careful about it so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4785">TS</a>]
01:19:49 ◼ ► just think back to the original Mac and I think in hindsight we can probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4789">TS</a>]
01:19:54 ◼ ► agree that a mistake that they made was that single click in the Finder selects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4794">TS</a>]
01:20:04 ◼ ► an item and double-click opens because double-click is cognitively difficult [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4804">TS</a>]
01:20:10 ◼ ► for normal people it is they end and you know and it's led to you know the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4810">TS</a>]
01:20:16 ◼ ► best example as people whose parents double click on links in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4816">TS</a>]
01:20:23 ◼ ► race because they they somehow they they don't understand that some things you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4823">TS</a>]
01:20:27 ◼ ► click on to open in some things you double click open and you kinda have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4827">TS</a>]
01:20:31 ◼ ► have a deeper understanding of how the computer is working as opposed to how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4831">TS</a>]
01:20:36 ◼ ► the interface is working to know that difference which is why you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4836">TS</a>]
01:20:41 ◼ ► makes way more sense the way that I west and almost every modern system works for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4841">TS</a>]
01:20:47 ◼ ► you tapped open and you do like a long tap to select or something else but that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4847">TS</a>]
01:20:53 ◼ ► tapped oh and do you have so few things to do and and you don't want to get into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4853">TS</a>]
01:21:01 ◼ ► a thing where where anything primary involves things like well you can put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4861">TS</a>]
01:21:07 ◼ ► two fingers on screen and dried up and down while normal people are never gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4867">TS</a>]
01:21:12 ◼ ► pinching with two fingers they'll get because it's it is it feels real but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4872">TS</a>]
01:21:18 ◼ ► things like the iOS four finger swipe to switch apps that's a power user will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4878">TS</a>]
01:21:24 ◼ ► feature that it's absolutely fine that Apple made that I think it's fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4884">TS</a>]
01:21:29 ◼ ► feature I use it especially on the iPad I don't have it turned on the phone but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4889">TS</a>]
01:21:33 ◼ ► on the iPad I use it all the time but I you know it it's I guarantee you 99.5% [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4893">TS</a>]
01:21:40 ◼ ► of all iPad users have no idea that it exists and if you told them it exists [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4900">TS</a>]
01:21:45 ◼ ► they would forget it by tomorrow so what Facebook had to solve with paper is what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4905">TS</a>]
01:21:52 ◼ ► can you how much can you do with one finger just dragging you've got left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4912">TS</a>]
01:21:57 ◼ ► right and you've got up down and that's it and so you go left right to navigate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4917">TS</a>]
01:22:07 ◼ ► and up to open down to close and it's even though it's a little bit more sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4927">TS</a>]
01:22:16 ◼ ► of interesting how they're doing it because there's also down like it seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4936">TS</a>]
01:22:21 ◼ ► like one of the issues that they're having which I understand is that people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4941">TS</a>]
01:22:24 ◼ ► don't know at first how to create a post right because that's another swipe down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4944">TS</a>]
01:22:29 ◼ ► from the top and there's no real indication that that's there is through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4949">TS</a>]
01:22:33 ◼ ► the walk-through of course but there's no indication when you're just looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4953">TS</a>]
01:22:36 ◼ ► at it and that's what you would do great and that in mind I create a new norm I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4956">TS</a>]
01:22:40 ◼ ► guess for that and now it's instead of being the side sort of the hamburger bun [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4960">TS</a>]
01:22:44 ◼ ► to the side it's now wiping down to you to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4964">TS</a>]
01:22:47 ◼ ► yeah and maybe that's a playoff spot where it's not quite fair of me to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4967">TS</a>]
01:22:52 ◼ ► that it doesn't feel foreign because it is because its non-standard but I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4972">TS</a>]
01:22:59 ◼ ► what I see is that I when I look at paper I see a way that the whole system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4979">TS</a>]
01:23:05 ◼ ► could work that way right that in some alternate universe Mike Matusz is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4985">TS</a>]
01:23:10 ◼ ► still a top ones in charge of iOS four is a a lead developer and that iOS 7 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4990">TS</a>]
01:23:16 ◼ ► works like this across the board and that there's you know for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/4996">TS</a>]
01:23:20 ◼ ► there's no status bar all the time in facebook paper but it's there you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5000">TS</a>]
01:23:28 ◼ ► pull down at the top a little bit and then you can see it yeah and I know for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5008">TS</a>]
01:23:33 ◼ ► a fact that is you know it's a stupid little thing but I know from talking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5013">TS</a>]
01:23:38 ◼ ► other designers and people who think about things like this is an awful lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5018">TS</a>]
01:23:41 ◼ ► of people who think that that's the way I always should work that the status bar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5021">TS</a>]
01:23:45 ◼ ► is clutter and that you know why not just give the whole screen and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5025">TS</a>]
01:23:49 ◼ ► show the status when you need it and how do you do it just put down you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5029">TS</a>]
01:23:55 ◼ ► else I just realized just playing around with it right now I think they're one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5035">TS</a>]
01:23:59 ◼ ► the first ones that I can remember actually doing this in a way i think is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5039">TS</a>]
01:24:04 ◼ ► correct which is that when you do so when you do you're on the main screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5044">TS</a>]
01:24:07 ◼ ► swipe down to get to sort of where you can post where your profile is that back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5047">TS</a>]
01:24:12 ◼ ► you know the back of the sort of cards metaphor ya win that puts the main [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5052">TS</a>]
01:24:18 ◼ ► sort of card at the bottom so you can still get back there by tapping on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5058">TS</a>]
01:24:23 ◼ ► and then it just pops back up right so that's why you never get back yes but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5063">TS</a>]
01:24:27 ◼ ► is impossible to actually pull up the menu from very you know how in so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5067">TS</a>]
01:24:33 ◼ ► apps now with iOS 7 they have the poll up menu where you know where their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5073">TS</a>]
01:24:37 ◼ ► flashlights and all those other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5077">TS</a>]
01:24:39 ◼ ► yeah it is actually impossible to do that at least as far as I can see right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5079">TS</a>]
01:24:44 ◼ ► now to pull up the menu which is great because so many of these apps that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5084">TS</a>]
01:24:50 ◼ ► trying to be clever with sort of using new UI forget that you know there is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5090">TS</a>]
01:24:55 ◼ ► already a systemwide you I to pull up that that menu right and somehow assume [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5095">TS</a>]
01:25:03 ◼ ► you can do this in this setting paper has figured out like if we put this this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5103">TS</a>]
01:25:10 ◼ ► card at the bottom and ask people to go back to it a lot of times they're gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5110">TS</a>]
01:25:14 ◼ ► end up pulling up the the settings menu and we don't want them to do that so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5114">TS</a>]
01:25:19 ◼ ► it's disabled and so there is no way to do that which is great because I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5119">TS</a>]
01:25:22 ◼ ► always afraid now whenever I'm touching something at the bottom of the screen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5122">TS</a>]
01:25:25 ◼ ► that I'm going to pull up that many oh yeah I know exactly what you mean I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5125">TS</a>]
01:25:31 ◼ ► think it's tricky to win the keyboard is visible and it feels I could be wrong it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5131">TS</a>]
01:25:38 ◼ ► could just be that I've gotten better at it but I'm running the Iowa 7.1 betas on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5138">TS</a>]
01:25:42 ◼ ► my phone and it feels as though they've in the last batter to they've gotten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5142">TS</a>]
01:25:50 ◼ ► system wide when you when you want to bring up to call the control center [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5150">TS</a>]
01:25:58 ◼ ► previously when the keyboard was up every time I tried it I get a space I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5158">TS</a>]
01:26:03 ◼ ► just hit the key and they've gotten something they figured out some way of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5163">TS</a>]
01:26:08 ◼ ► doing it now wernicke boards visible you can bring that up too tricky thing and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5168">TS</a>]
01:26:12 ◼ ► agree that yeah I know exactly where talk about papers like you more or less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5172">TS</a>]
01:26:16 ◼ ► pushed the whole regular interface down regular interface training you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5176">TS</a>]
01:26:20 ◼ ► browsing through the content in your feed you push that down to get a sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5180">TS</a>]
01:26:28 ◼ ► interface and it's like a transparent thing with your Facebook search it has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5188">TS</a>]
01:26:35 ◼ ► your profile as create a poster is at its sections so another thing that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5195">TS</a>]
01:26:41 ◼ ► did that I think and it speaks to the thought that went into it it's like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5201">TS</a>]
01:26:46 ◼ ► Einstein quote everything should be as simple as possible but not more so than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5206">TS</a>]
01:26:52 ◼ ► a decade I've looked it up over the years and maybe that's you know there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5212">TS</a>]
01:26:56 ◼ ► a lot of could be one of those things are in an even say it but that's the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5216">TS</a>]
01:26:59 ◼ ► I know that the adage that you can you know what does it mean as simple as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5219">TS</a>]
01:27:06 ◼ ► possible but not more so well it's a little cute but it it means don't take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5226">TS</a>]
01:27:10 ◼ ► an idea too far and as an example it's ok so they've gotten rid of a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5230">TS</a>]
01:27:15 ◼ ► buttons in the navigation that you don't go back you just push it down and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5235">TS</a>]
01:27:20 ◼ ► closes but they don't have any kind of we're not gonna have any buttons at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5240">TS</a>]
01:27:25 ◼ ► and we're going to figure out a way to do this with no buns where it makes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5245">TS</a>]
01:27:28 ◼ ► sense to just have a button they have a bun like that like when you write a post [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5248">TS</a>]
01:27:32 ◼ ► you just start typing and then there's a button that says post and it's you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5252">TS</a>]
01:27:36 ◼ ► super obvious there's no cutesy way of somehow you know posting without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5256">TS</a>]
01:27:42 ◼ ► actually having a post but yeah yeah I think that's right they have they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5262">TS</a>]
01:27:48 ◼ ► the minimal amount of buttons you would need to do what you want to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5268">TS</a>]
01:27:53 ◼ ► yeah they have a super cool thing and when you go into the settings that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5273">TS</a>]
01:28:00 ◼ ► you know and it uses of once you're in the settings for Facebook paper is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5280">TS</a>]
01:28:05 ◼ ► very standard iOS metaphor where there's a list and you tap an item in it you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5285">TS</a>]
01:28:10 ◼ ► know those left to right and navigation stack you know goes the same way that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5290">TS</a>]
01:28:15 ◼ ► wait you're familiar with and I think it's exactly right words they're trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5295">TS</a>]
01:28:20 ◼ ► to get real clever and do something original there they do it but they do a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5300">TS</a>]
01:28:22 ◼ ► really cool thing with the animation in the at the top of the screen where there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5302">TS</a>]
01:28:28 ◼ ► is actually a back button when you're in the settings but if you swipe it it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5308">TS</a>]
01:28:32 ◼ ► like the back button thing unlike Iowa seven standard navigation it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5312">TS</a>]
01:28:38 ◼ ► it like shoots lozeau rubberband pushed it yeah really really and honestly it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5318">TS</a>]
01:28:45 ◼ ► better than I wish that that was Iowa seven standard yet everything sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5325">TS</a>]
01:28:50 ◼ ► cascades in yeah yeah exactly it's like a cascade animation like almost like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5330">TS</a>]
01:28:57 ◼ ► wave I don't know how you call it but it's it's making a board here but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5337">TS</a>]
01:29:04 ◼ ► very physically to succeed physical physical I guess it's just physical but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5344">TS</a>]
01:29:10 ◼ ► it's it's like physics as theirs and I again that's a little thing and it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5350">TS</a>]
01:29:16 ◼ ► not that is not a standard animation from iOS that is something that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5356">TS</a>]
01:29:23 ◼ ► there's an awful lot of so did you get a sense from him did he talk at all are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5363">TS</a>]
01:29:27 ◼ ► they going to open source any of the stuff for other sort of iOS developers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5367">TS</a>]
01:29:32 ◼ ► to use you know I didn't ask I don't know I don't think so that would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5372">TS</a>]
01:29:37 ◼ ► great but yeah I don't think so although they did you know they have the tools [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5377">TS</a>]
01:29:41 ◼ ► the the metal layer on top of course compositor that they're using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5381">TS</a>]
01:29:46 ◼ ► composer it's right or origami I forget if its courts compositor composer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5386">TS</a>]
01:29:52 ◼ ► whichever one it is I always get strong so it's whatever composer composer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5392">TS</a>]
01:29:56 ◼ ► I think the telling thing about that that's interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5396">TS</a>]
01:29:56 ◼ ► I think the telling thing about that that's interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5396">TS</a>]
01:30:00 ◼ ► as it does you know someone who works in and try to think about design and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5400">TS</a>]
01:30:04 ◼ ► is that it matters has been using Quartz Composer for a long time for his mark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5404">TS</a>]
01:30:12 ◼ ► ups and stuff and and I spoke about this before but like he showed me work with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5412">TS</a>]
01:30:17 ◼ ► crisp up press for it came out and he was showing me the development version [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5417">TS</a>]
01:30:23 ◼ ► of it where they they had like in the beta versions are the in house versions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5423">TS</a>]
01:30:28 ◼ ► there was an extra layer of settings where there were sliders for all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5428">TS</a>]
01:30:34 ◼ ► variables in the physics engine and so instead of like a programmer typing into [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5434">TS</a>]
01:30:45 ◼ ► Xcode that gravity for bringing down a picture to close it is at point seven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5445">TS</a>]
01:30:54 ◼ ► eight and then you compile and build and install based on your phone you play [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5454">TS</a>]
01:30:58 ◼ ► around with it and and Mike would say you know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5458">TS</a>]
01:31:01 ◼ ► try like pointed five and then compile it and build it he had sliders for all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5461">TS</a>]
01:31:07 ◼ ► of those things and he could sit there and you know drag these little sliders [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5467">TS</a>]
01:31:12 ◼ ► and adjust things and make you know make pictures really and you know i i got to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5472">TS</a>]
01:31:17 ◼ ► play with it when the with those settings enable make things like photos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5477">TS</a>]
01:31:21 ◼ ► feel heavier or lighter and it was very very you know it was very tactile where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5481">TS</a>]
01:31:27 ◼ ► it really did feel like well thats heavier well thats lighter and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5487">TS</a>]
01:31:33 ◼ ► the idea is that you can't really design with this modern sense of Physics driven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5493">TS</a>]
01:31:40 ◼ ► without actually having design tools that are not just animated but you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5500">TS</a>]
01:31:47 ◼ ► that that you can tweak all sorts of variables and I think that they're going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5507">TS</a>]
01:31:51 ◼ ► with origami when you're not you cannot you can't create things like this in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5511">TS</a>]
01:31:55 ◼ ► Photoshop and just have here's the one here's the start frame here's the end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5515">TS</a>]
01:32:00 ◼ ► frame and in between it and you know yeah and it's it's cuz I like you you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5520">TS</a>]
01:32:06 ◼ ► forcing your brain disorder shift between two different processes right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5526">TS</a>]
01:32:11 ◼ ► Blake you're going from a very sort of numbers driven analytical process by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5531">TS</a>]
01:32:18 ◼ ► typing in like pointed 7 like you're doing math vs designing you know I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5538">TS</a>]
01:32:24 ◼ ► its equivalent of sculpture where you're working you know it's like having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5544">TS</a>]
01:32:28 ◼ ► claimed your hands and being able to hold it with your hands as opposed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5548">TS</a>]
01:32:33 ◼ ► defining you know mathematically the shape of this culture what do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5553">TS</a>]
01:32:40 ◼ ► about the the photo element where your tilting too you know sort of look at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5560">TS</a>]
01:32:46 ◼ ► panoramic mode they call it I think I don't know if this is public or 90 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5566">TS</a>]
01:32:49 ◼ ► internally they call it can turns the can turn the fact that's good I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5569">TS</a>]
01:32:56 ◼ ► it's brilliant I think it is really really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5576">TS</a>]
01:33:01 ◼ ► I think it's it works it is so super effective and I think you know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5581">TS</a>]
01:33:07 ◼ ► always say like you you know first is the original the second is a rip off and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5587">TS</a>]
01:33:13 ◼ ► the third it's a standard so somebody's gonna rip it off and then everybody's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5593">TS</a>]
01:33:18 ◼ ► gonna say hey they ripped off the counters effect from facebook paper and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5598">TS</a>]
01:33:21 ◼ ► then two or three other apps gonna come out that use it and it's everybody's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5601">TS</a>]
01:33:26 ◼ ► know we should always remember that they did at first but it's i think it's gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5606">TS</a>]
01:33:29 ◼ ► become a standard so the ideas if you haven't if your other you listen you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5609">TS</a>]
01:33:33 ◼ ► haven't seen paper used it to open a photo they open it so that it always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5613">TS</a>]
01:33:39 ◼ ► fills the screen and so if it's like a plan and it's even most knows what you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5619">TS</a>]
01:33:44 ◼ ► think of a panoramic photo if you take a panoramic photos with your iPhone which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5624">TS</a>]
01:33:48 ◼ ► way wider than it is talk that opens at full height on your phone and then to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5628">TS</a>]
01:33:53 ◼ ► see the rest of it you just hold your phone in front of you and you can either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5633">TS</a>]
01:33:57 ◼ ► twist it or you can actually like rotate your body and photos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5637">TS</a>]
01:34:05 ◼ ► panda long as you move its Brian I think it works so well and it's just like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5645">TS</a>]
01:34:12 ◼ ► basically turns the phone screen is a Windows sort of into a picture yes yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5652">TS</a>]
01:34:20 ◼ ► and it is you know so we you know we sit at our desks and we have things like 27 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5660">TS</a>]
01:34:31 ◼ ► 21 inch iMacs or cinema displays or even on a Macbook you know who we have retina [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5671">TS</a>]
01:34:39 ◼ ► displays on MacBook Pros now with incredible pixel counts and compared to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5679">TS</a>]
01:34:43 ◼ ► a phone a big-screen I think this can turn things for how do you view [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5683">TS</a>]
01:34:48 ◼ ► something that you really do want big like a photo how do you view it on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5688">TS</a>]
01:34:53 ◼ ► little four-inch screen I think it's it's the best solution anybody's come up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5693">TS</a>]
01:34:59 ◼ ► here's one thing and so the name they they said that they started with the Ken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5699">TS</a>]
01:35:05 ◼ ► Burns effect where they would open the photo at that size and then it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5705">TS</a>]
01:35:09 ◼ ► automatically move yeah and they said the problem was that they realized was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5709">TS</a>]
01:35:17 ◼ ► lot of times you know the most interesting part of the photo maybe it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5717">TS</a>]
01:35:20 ◼ ► was at the beginning it's at the left edge and then it already runs past like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5720">TS</a>]
01:35:23 ◼ ► if you want to go back and you have to wait for the animation or you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5723">TS</a>]
01:35:28 ◼ ► wipe it right and then the main problem so this is this is what shows to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5728">TS</a>]
01:35:34 ◼ ► which is which i think is pretty genius which is that normally so even right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5734">TS</a>]
01:35:38 ◼ ► if you open up a panoramic picture if you if you open it on your phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5738">TS</a>]
01:35:43 ◼ ► sort of in landscape mode or horizontal mode it will it will be so small and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5743">TS</a>]
01:35:50 ◼ ► you'll want to do man right but to see them the rest of the photo you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5750">TS</a>]
01:35:54 ◼ ► take your thumb and like sort of push and so that's like putting your thumb in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5754">TS</a>]
01:35:57 ◼ ► between which are trying to look at where is this totally removes it cause [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5757">TS</a>]
01:36:01 ◼ ► you never have to use your thumb well exactly so you're not covering the photo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5761">TS</a>]
01:36:06 ◼ ► with your fat ugly and it just gets back to what I said before they've already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5766">TS</a>]
01:36:11 ◼ ► assigned swiping left and right to going to the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5771">TS</a>]
01:36:15 ◼ ► yes that's right to navigation and it does that in summing right now are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5775">TS</a>]
01:36:19 ◼ ► trying to do you know to get to the other party so just because that has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5779">TS</a>]
01:36:23 ◼ ► previously been the norm right now they're just swiping to you know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5783">TS</a>]
01:36:26 ◼ ► next story in being like right different and if it's a to me it's just a genius [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5786">TS</a>]
01:36:34 ◼ ► it's so easy to overlook how much thought went into that you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5794">TS</a>]
01:36:37 ◼ ► again it's it would be the wrong solution but it you know the things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5797">TS</a>]
01:36:43 ◼ ► would be easier to think of you know and that it's simple little mind like mine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5803">TS</a>]
01:36:46 ◼ ► would think would be well put two fingers on the screen and swipe left [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5806">TS</a>]
01:36:49 ◼ ► right to pan the photo and one finger is still just Godin extra forward but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5809">TS</a>]
01:36:54 ◼ ► people don't think like that two fingers on screen to go to do it is terrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5814">TS</a>]
01:36:59 ◼ ► you know this you know using why don't we use the accelerometer and gyroscope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5819">TS</a>]
01:37:04 ◼ ► it's really great idea I really can then they have you know whether their little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5824">TS</a>]
01:37:12 ◼ ► things like the autoplay of the videos like normal people hate that and I'm one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5832">TS</a>]
01:37:15 ◼ ► of those people who hate that but it's like win when you are in sort of full [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5835">TS</a>]
01:37:20 ◼ ► mode so it doesn't auto play them when you're in for the browsing mode where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5840">TS</a>]
01:37:24 ◼ ► you can you know the stories are at the bottom of the screen in your sleeping [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5844">TS</a>]
01:37:27 ◼ ► through them but once you bring it up to full screen it does auto play it because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5847">TS</a>]
01:37:31 ◼ ► it's like that's the content and you want to see it and you're just removing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5851">TS</a>]
01:37:34 ◼ ► sort of a barrier to entry to see that yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5854">TS</a>]
01:37:37 ◼ ► yeah exactly really really thoughtful stuff and you know I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5857">TS</a>]
01:37:45 ◼ ► you know rightly or wrongly a lot of the discussion has been more about it as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5865">TS</a>]
01:37:49 ◼ ► Hayes as an alternative way to look at Facebook but I think that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5869">TS</a>]
01:37:52 ◼ ► interface wise it is fascinating it is you know you can teach a whole course of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5872">TS</a>]
01:37:57 ◼ ► interface design based on the novel tees that they've come up within the app so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5877">TS</a>]
01:38:03 ◼ ► guess I guess the biggest complaints I would have as a as someone who does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5883">TS</a>]
01:38:07 ◼ ► occasionally use Facebook I mean I'm not I certainly don't use it as much as much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5887">TS</a>]
01:38:11 ◼ ► of the world does but the difference between the regular sort of standard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5891">TS</a>]
01:38:17 ◼ ► Facebook app and even the website and this is that for may not even be true [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5897">TS</a>]
01:38:23 ◼ ► but there's something about it to me that makes it feel like there is much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5903">TS</a>]
01:38:26 ◼ ► less content so it's much more shallow and maybe that's on purpose maybe it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5906">TS</a>]
01:38:31 ◼ ► sort of making Facebook less overwhelming because maybe it is too [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5911">TS</a>]
01:38:34 ◼ ► overwhelming now because everyone has sort of a thousand friends on it even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5914">TS</a>]
01:38:37 ◼ ► though you're probably not really friends with thousand people and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5917">TS</a>]
01:38:41 ◼ ► maybe they're doing some smart things and maybe I just haven't played around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5921">TS</a>]
01:38:44 ◼ ► with it enough to know like that they're serving up really what is the best of of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5924">TS</a>]
01:38:48 ◼ ► the content that I should see but I do get the sense that there's just like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5928">TS</a>]
01:38:52 ◼ ► much less content and maybe it's because the cards are sort of at the bottom and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5932">TS</a>]
01:38:58 ◼ ► they're they're sort of you know you can get you get basically to a little bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5938">TS</a>]
01:39:01 ◼ ► more into one sort of screen and so it takes quite a bit of swiping to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5941">TS</a>]
01:39:06 ◼ ► through to what you used to be able to get through in less sweeping up and down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5946">TS</a>]
01:39:12 ◼ ► yeah I don't think it's not a good interface more or less it's probably not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5952">TS</a>]
01:39:16 ◼ ► a good interface for going through a ton of stuff yeah right because you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5956">TS</a>]
01:39:21 ◼ ► go left right and their minimum size is sort of a thumb now so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5961">TS</a>]
01:39:25 ◼ ► you can't just scroll through tightest off its not I guess it's you know I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5965">TS</a>]
01:39:31 ◼ ► don't know I i think thats I don't think it's ever going to replace the regular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5971">TS</a>]
01:39:35 ◼ ► Facebook interface I don't think it could but I think it's an interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5975">TS</a>]
01:39:38 ◼ ► alternative for some people and maybe so that some people people who are turned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5978">TS</a>]
01:39:43 ◼ ► off by the existing regular Facebook interface and what it promotes in terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5983">TS</a>]
01:39:50 ◼ ► of you know behavior and how many people you friend etc it's a way for more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5990">TS</a>]
01:39:57 ◼ ► people to want to use Facebook I think I'm probably but I don't think I really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/5997">TS</a>]
01:40:03 ◼ ► do and it's almost like I just don't want to it's like i don't think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6003">TS</a>]
01:40:07 ◼ ► stupid to me to just say I want to stick to this you know it's too arbitrary for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6007">TS</a>]
01:40:13 ◼ ► me to say you know what I want I am I going to sign up for just because I want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6013">TS</a>]
01:40:16 ◼ ► to be able to always say I never signed up for Facebook but I think my idea is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6016">TS</a>]
01:40:21 ◼ ► sign up i dont wanna you are still on his facebook anywhere else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6021">TS</a>]
01:40:25 ◼ ► only deal might the only way I'll use Facebook is through paper I'm not I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6025">TS</a>]
01:40:28 ◼ ► don't ever I can't have actually tried you can't create an account using paper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6028">TS</a>]
01:40:33 ◼ ► so I would have to go but then after I do that I'm never going to never going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6033">TS</a>]
01:40:41 ◼ ► to use anywhere else and said well it will you start where you start coughing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6041">TS</a>]
01:40:44 ◼ ► in with Facebook them will use that aspect of it too I imagine that must be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6044">TS</a>]
01:40:47 ◼ ► a pain for you know because I don't know that there's anything I've ever wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6047">TS</a>]
01:40:51 ◼ ► to use that only offers Facebook there are I feel like that's less of an issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6051">TS</a>]
01:40:56 ◼ ► now like a year ago or two years ago that was an issue there would be like i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6056">TS</a>]
01:41:00 ◼ ► remember i was you know sort of looking at her or sort of testing out many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6060">TS</a>]
01:41:05 ◼ ► different apps that would have facebook only and that was the number one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6065">TS</a>]
01:41:08 ◼ ► complaint of course yeah you know at least email that doesn't seem to be an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6068">TS</a>]
01:41:12 ◼ ► issue anymore we actually did a lot i mean it's it's not really wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6072">TS</a>]
01:41:17 ◼ ► scientific but at four Vesper and for the eventual sinking thing that we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6077">TS</a>]
01:41:25 ◼ ► we thought about what should we have our own login system or should we use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6085">TS</a>]
01:41:28 ◼ ► Twitter should we use Facebook as we do both and there's a lot of it solves a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6088">TS</a>]
01:41:33 ◼ ► lot of problems using existing identity like that but we did is it is asked like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6093">TS</a>]
01:41:39 ◼ ► real people are wives and friends and people who want to developers and very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6099">TS</a>]
01:41:45 ◼ ► very quickly got a lot of you know came very very clear that normal people don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6105">TS</a>]
01:41:51 ◼ ► like using that and it's because they don't trust that whatever out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6111">TS</a>]
01:41:55 ◼ ► often is gonna post to their to their board or to their Twitter and they just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6115">TS</a>]
01:42:00 ◼ ► don't like it and they don't want and they don't want Facebook or Twitter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6120">TS</a>]
01:42:03 ◼ ► knowing what other apps that use they just they just don't you know normal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6123">TS</a>]
01:42:07 ◼ ► people not like nerds not privacy experts just normal people have a sense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6127">TS</a>]
01:42:14 ◼ ► just a common sense like aversion to letting these big companies know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6134">TS</a>]
01:42:21 ◼ ► everything they do and they don't like it they really don't and that they also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6141">TS</a>]
01:42:25 ◼ ► know intuitively that if your ideas just your email address that nobody knows you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6145">TS</a>]
01:42:30 ◼ ► know you know that right the email provider isn't right care about right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6150">TS</a>]
01:42:35 ◼ ► that they're not seeing can't that mean they can't even really it's just the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6155">TS</a>]
01:42:40 ◼ ► that they can get access to your email address isn't really a system it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6160">TS</a>]
01:42:44 ◼ ► a unique strengths just by the way that you know domain names work that there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6164">TS</a>]
01:42:49 ◼ ► one user name at domain that can exist and it's just a unique identifier not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6169">TS</a>]
01:42:54 ◼ ► unique identity and you know and it's CNN that gets down to do do you know do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6174">TS</a>]
01:43:02 ◼ ► it as an option and then it's you know it's a question of how do you make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6182">TS</a>]
01:43:05 ◼ ► people choose but I i dont know and I and it seems to me the trend I've been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6185">TS</a>]
01:43:10 ◼ ► looking at it thinking about it for a best-before wide seems to me like more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6190">TS</a>]
01:43:15 ◼ ► services going forward are only offering things like Facebook and Twitter off as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6195">TS</a>]
01:43:23 ◼ ► well yeah I guess the obvious upside is one button and you're done right rather [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6203">TS</a>]
01:43:29 ◼ ► than typing in facebook is the first our Facebook paper is that really the first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6209">TS</a>]
01:43:34 ◼ ► time that I've needed a Facebook account to use it and it's because it actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6214">TS</a>]
01:43:37 ◼ ► you know very specifically I mean to the third sponsor there's another angle to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6217">TS</a>]
01:43:45 ◼ ► Facebook paper we can talk about which is the shortest sections the content [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6225">TS</a>]
01:43:49 ◼ ► sections but our third sponsor is our good friends at fracture fracture is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6229">TS</a>]
01:43:58 ◼ ► photo printing service they print your photo directly onto a piece of glass you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6238">TS</a>]
01:44:06 ◼ ► have to see it to believe it but it really is a very different visual effect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6246">TS</a>]
01:44:10 ◼ ► that piece of paper behind glass and frame two piece of glass with the paper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6250">TS</a>]
01:44:15 ◼ ► printed on it it's almost like if you're old enough to remember when people used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6255">TS</a>]
01:44:18 ◼ ► to shoot slides it's like having a piece of glass that the slide of your photo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6258">TS</a>]
01:44:23 ◼ ► and there's a certain vibrancy to it and it's also it's a lot like with with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6263">TS</a>]
01:44:30 ◼ ► iPhone and stuff where it's just closer to the surface of the glass and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6270">TS</a>]
01:44:33 ◼ ► just a great effect they come in all sorts of sizes from very small to very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6273">TS</a>]
01:44:39 ◼ ► big and they ship it in these ingenious containers where it's if you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6279">TS</a>]
01:44:45 ◼ ► hang on a wall you can hang on the wall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6285">TS</a>]
01:44:47 ◼ ► you want to put it on your desk you can put it on your desk it's like a frame [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6287">TS</a>]
01:44:50 ◼ ► and a desk stan on one really have to see it to believe it makes a great gift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6290">TS</a>]
01:44:58 ◼ ► for the Wii my wife and I made a bunch of these four people for Christmas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6298">TS</a>]
01:45:04 ◼ ► in the family and its huge hit also raises soon as people see it they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6304">TS</a>]
01:45:09 ◼ ► see there's something different about it and they're like how did you do this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6309">TS</a>]
01:45:13 ◼ ► people love him and I have coupon code you get 10% off any order that coupon [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6313">TS</a>]
01:45:23 ◼ ► code is the talk show love that because it's to meet the ones used at the end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6323">TS</a>]
01:45:29 ◼ ► there they're the ones who actually listen to the show where to go to find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6329">TS</a>]
01:45:34 ◼ ► their website is fracture mean dot com and I believe you can also just go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6334">TS</a>]
01:45:40 ◼ ► fracture done typing in right now you can go to fracture . me or fracture [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6340">TS</a>]
01:45:51 ◼ ► they have a great video you get to see it and it kind of shows off just how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6351">TS</a>]
01:45:55 ◼ ► different it is see the sizes and prices are prices and get started and remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6355">TS</a>]
01:46:00 ◼ ► that code the talk show and you'll save 10% so go check them out to great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6360">TS</a>]
01:46:05 ◼ ► service so here's the other thing with Facebook paper its us-only not just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6365">TS</a>]
01:46:10 ◼ ► iphoneonly jus only and and the reason for that is because of the the content [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6370">TS</a>]
01:46:15 ◼ ► sections they have where it's not just your regular Facebook feed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6375">TS</a>]
01:46:19 ◼ ► they have sections for things like tack and sports and news I think cities and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6379">TS</a>]
01:46:28 ◼ ► they're not scraping those its not just like they're scraping RSS feeds and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6388">TS</a>]
01:46:35 ◼ ► showing whatever they want they've got partnerships with content providers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6395">TS</a>]
01:46:40 ◼ ► I more or less I think that's why it's us-only for now because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6400">TS</a>]
01:46:44 ◼ ► it's like you know you go there and I know a lot of people have compared [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6404">TS</a>]
01:46:50 ◼ ► Facebook paper to Flipboard but I don't you think that their dad direct [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6410">TS</a>]
01:46:54 ◼ ► competitor I think it's because some of the animations are a little similar that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6414">TS</a>]
01:46:58 ◼ ► people think that yeah and I mean that's sort of what I was getting at the very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6418">TS</a>]
01:47:03 ◼ ► beginning where it almost feels like this this is the part to me that feels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6423">TS</a>]
01:47:08 ◼ ► sort of like a response to Twitter it's because twitter is a place you go to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6428">TS</a>]
01:47:11 ◼ ► news right now writes like where a lot of people actually find links for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6431">TS</a>]
01:47:16 ◼ ► first time find links about News breakingNews happening in facebook now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6436">TS</a>]
01:47:19 ◼ ► with this with these sections are as you said sort of making partnerships with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6439">TS</a>]
01:47:24 ◼ ► the actual news organizations to make this actual newsreader well I didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6444">TS</a>]
01:47:29 ◼ ► think about that as a response to Twitter but maybe you're right though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6449">TS</a>]
01:47:32 ◼ ► that it kind of is in terms of that you go to this app for news but that you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6452">TS</a>]
01:47:36 ◼ ► not expecting it to come from your follower your friends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6456">TS</a>]
01:47:42 ◼ ► it's about this sort of yeah cultivation that's a that's a good point because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6462">TS</a>]
01:47:49 ◼ ► it's more along the lines of like Twitter if you only followed the actual [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6469">TS</a>]
01:47:53 ◼ ► news sources right rather than rather than your friends he felt the account of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6473">TS</a>]
01:47:57 ◼ ► New York Times and Washington Post and and whoever else if you use Twitter that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6477">TS</a>]
01:48:01 ◼ ► way which some people do I think use or at least have you know our users of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6481">TS</a>]
01:48:05 ◼ ► course have separate sort of Twitter screens set up with just sorta breaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6485">TS</a>]
01:48:10 ◼ ► news alerts on on different items [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6490">TS</a>]
01:48:14 ◼ ► I don't know you know and I do I do something where I just don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6494">TS</a>]
01:48:18 ◼ ► whether I'm not a Facebook user I don't know how much sense that makes to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6498">TS</a>]
01:48:22 ◼ ► integrate these two things you know it's i cant i feel like i cant judges yea or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6502">TS</a>]
01:48:29 ◼ ► what do you think here you you say you're using on your phone are you using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6509">TS</a>]
01:48:33 ◼ ► the you know it's it's interesting I am using it and I as i said i have have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6513">TS</a>]
01:48:40 ◼ ► replaced its I've replaced the Facebook out at the regular appt with with paper [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6520">TS</a>]
01:48:45 ◼ ► and its greats as for other reasons we just have talked about an elaborated on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6525">TS</a>]
01:48:51 ◼ ► but I'm not really using the the certain news sections I don't know why it does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6531">TS</a>]
01:48:57 ◼ ► feel a little bit foreign to me because I I am sort of thinking about this is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6537">TS</a>]
01:49:01 ◼ ► facebook replacement even though I know that's not you know sort of the only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6541">TS</a>]
01:49:05 ◼ ► mentality you're supposed to be going into this thinking about and you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6545">TS</a>]
01:49:07 ◼ ► supposed to be sort of focused on these different sections were you can read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6547">TS</a>]
01:49:11 ◼ ► about news but I don't know I just don't use it that way and I'm never compelled [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6551">TS</a>]
01:49:16 ◼ ► to sort of open up paper to be able to get to the latest Wall Street Journal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6556">TS</a>]
01:49:21 ◼ ► story and I don't know if that's because I'm heavy Twitter user and I still like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6561">TS</a>]
01:49:26 ◼ ► I will have already seen it on Twitter I guess maybe that's what it comes down to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6566">TS</a>]
01:49:33 ◼ ► must be 10 to 20 x more times a day that i use facebook and so I'm already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6573">TS</a>]
01:49:39 ◼ ► getting my news from from Twitter and so I am just not in the raid sort of mode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6579">TS</a>]
01:49:46 ◼ ► to go into this paper apps assertive read about things right now I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6586">TS</a>]
01:49:50 ◼ ► maybe I'm different maybe you know 1.2 billion people who use Facebook so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6590">TS</a>]
01:49:56 ◼ ► know it might be an interesting way to just wrap up the show and is is sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6596">TS</a>]
01:50:01 ◼ ► thought about before but now you've got me thinking about Twitter vs Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6601">TS</a>]
01:50:06 ◼ ► overall and and in it you know they're not the same thing but there clearly are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6606">TS</a>]
01:50:12 ◼ ► rivals and Facebook clearly has way more people and yes it's like 11 points to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6612">TS</a>]
01:50:22 ◼ ► something billion to about two hundred and some millions and the somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6622">TS</a>]
01:50:26 ◼ ► somebody pointed out the other day they planted I saw it on Twitter that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6626">TS</a>]
01:50:30 ◼ ► Facebook like last quarter grew by a third even though there are bigger group [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6630">TS</a>]
01:50:35 ◼ ► by a faster percentage than Twitter I saw that I think there was Dustin Curtis [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6635">TS</a>]
01:50:42 ◼ ► lie you know you can't watch TV without seeing hashtags on the screen right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6642">TS</a>]
01:50:52 ◼ ► the hashtags are clearly I mean you can use of Instagram but when people do but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6652">TS</a>]
01:50:59 ◼ ► clearly it's about tweets yes and you know there is no Facebook equivalent to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6659">TS</a>]
01:51:05 ◼ ► that that you know just watching anything stupid show or sports or the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6665">TS</a>]
01:51:12 ◼ ► there's hashtags on-screen commercials have hash tags right and it's all a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6672">TS</a>]
01:51:16 ◼ ► Twitter and so Facebook has tried to do this you know they've they've they've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6676">TS</a>]
01:51:21 ◼ ► integrated hashtags as a feature now you know sort of copying the notion it still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6681">TS</a>]
01:51:26 ◼ ► doesn't seem like it's taken off at all certainly not in the fields of anyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6686">TS</a>]
01:51:29 ◼ ► that I'm friends with organic follow on Facebook and I think that's what we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6689">TS</a>]
01:51:35 ◼ ► sort of we were talking about earlier where Facebook is sort of talking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6695">TS</a>]
01:51:38 ◼ ► celebrities and influencers about using facebook during the Super Bowl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6698">TS</a>]
01:51:42 ◼ ► and it's just I don't know it's meets it seems very unnatural it's it's I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6702">TS</a>]
01:51:46 ◼ ► think it's going to be used that way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6706">TS</a>]
01:51:48 ◼ ► Facebook is what it is and and Twitter is what it is and it's it's especially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6708">TS</a>]
01:51:51 ◼ ► hard to change something that 1.2 billion people are already using for a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6711">TS</a>]
01:51:56 ◼ ► reason and that reason is not to talk about the Super Bowl or at least not to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6716">TS</a>]
01:52:01 ◼ ► sort of talked about in real time with the same sort of speed that people do on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6721">TS</a>]
01:52:07 ◼ ► Twitter I don't know I'm not so sure that that's like a great idea for them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6727">TS</a>]
01:52:11 ◼ ► to try to squeeze these things into to this end for me what this what this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6731">TS</a>]
01:52:16 ◼ ► boils down to is both of these companies are not public companies Twitter of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6736">TS</a>]
01:52:19 ◼ ► course just went public in a few months ago and so what this all boils down to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6739">TS</a>]
01:52:27 ◼ ► especially with regard to television is trying to get advertisers on board and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6747">TS</a>]
01:52:31 ◼ ► trying to monetize this and so you can make the argument that while I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6751">TS</a>]
01:52:35 ◼ ► through Twitter had the first earnings and they beat the earnings rest of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6755">TS</a>]
01:52:39 ◼ ► estimates but their user numbers were sort of the cause for concern there but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6759">TS</a>]
01:52:44 ◼ ► that's sort of also points to the fact that I think Twitter actually has and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6764">TS</a>]
01:52:48 ◼ ► you can make a case will be easier to monetize is because it's sort of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6768">TS</a>]
01:52:54 ◼ ► site guys that people use during all of these major events like whether it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6774">TS</a>]
01:52:59 ◼ ► Super Bowl whether it's now the Olympics and there's like a very direct you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6779">TS</a>]
01:53:03 ◼ ► sort of advertising nut to crack I don't think they have cracked it yet but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6783">TS</a>]
01:53:08 ◼ ► think that there is a way to do that much so much more so than with Facebook [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6788">TS</a>]
01:53:12 ◼ ► even though Facebook has so many more users and I had drained strained analogy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6792">TS</a>]
01:53:17 ◼ ► and it's not gonna whole lot of water but it's a little bit like iOS to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6797">TS</a>]
01:53:20 ◼ ► Android where Android has more people but iOS is easier to monetize you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6800">TS</a>]
01:53:26 ◼ ► that it's that yeah yeah yeah I think that it's that works and you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6806">TS</a>]
01:53:31 ◼ ► the other thing I see on TV I see sports well I you know what news too I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6811">TS</a>]
01:53:36 ◼ ► I was very little TV news but I do watch sports and you know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6816">TS</a>]
01:53:42 ◼ ► ubiquitous almost that you know the commentators they'll they'll put their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6822">TS</a>]
01:53:46 ◼ ► twitter names up right now I see it when I actually sports sports is like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6826">TS</a>]
01:53:51 ◼ ► greatest example of that it's all over town sports center there are every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6831">TS</a>]
01:53:54 ◼ ► single person has their Twitter handle right there is no Facebook equivalent of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6834">TS</a>]
01:53:58 ◼ ► the right and you know when I do I should you know what I was trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6838">TS</a>]
01:54:01 ◼ ► think about how do I know this about TV news I know how I know what I know cuz i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6841">TS</a>]
01:54:05 ◼ ► watch The Daily Show and The Daily Show chose me the clips I need to see of we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6845">TS</a>]
01:54:09 ◼ ► know Fox and CNN and MSNBC and they do it too when a show you the clips of you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6849">TS</a>]
01:54:15 ◼ ► know whatever they're making fun of on The Daily Show on on these news channels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6855">TS</a>]
01:54:18 ◼ ► everybody gets introduced with their name and then underneath it at you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6858">TS</a>]
01:54:23 ◼ ► whatever their Twitter handle is it if I were to Twitter if I'm dich Kuss Kustom [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6863">TS</a>]
01:54:31 ◼ ► oh I I'm very happy about that because they are getting free advertising but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6871">TS</a>]
01:54:37 ◼ ► it's not just it's not just advertising know it it it's like it's a way of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6877">TS</a>]
01:54:44 ◼ ► entering the culture culture mindshare right its cultural mindshare you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6884">TS</a>]
01:54:51 ◼ ► it's it's like being coca-cola you know that it's just huge that you know and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6891">TS</a>]
01:54:59 ◼ ► that people know this you know that you go there and it just you go on TV and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6899">TS</a>]
01:55:03 ◼ ► it'll say MCN at side and you know what that means right you know you go on and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6903">TS</a>]
01:55:08 ◼ ► it just says at Paris lemon under your name on TV and people know that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6908">TS</a>]
01:55:13 ◼ ► if they wanna see you on Twitter though you know just search for that name on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6913">TS</a>]
01:55:16 ◼ ► Twitter it's it's really and that's that's interesting when you when you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6916">TS</a>]
01:55:21 ◼ ► think about it compared to Facebook where Facebook you know for a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6921">TS</a>]
01:55:24 ◼ ► their strength was this real names right like everyone was going to be their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6924">TS</a>]
01:55:31 ◼ ► the problem was like in the beginning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6931">TS</a>]
01:55:34 ◼ ► know if you even knows it's not being a Facebook user but they used to not even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6934">TS</a>]
01:55:38 ◼ ► have like an actual like / username no I didn't know that I didn't know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6938">TS</a>]
01:55:43 ◼ ► it was a string of numbers like I like 16 numbers and sort of crazy now they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6943">TS</a>]
01:55:49 ◼ ► have of course manatee URLs but it's still it's still that that hasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6949">TS</a>]
01:55:54 ◼ ► translated though like I actually have / Paris lemon on Facebook and you can get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6954">TS</a>]
01:55:58 ◼ ► to me that way but like what would I put on it with someone put on television [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6958">TS</a>]
01:56:02 ◼ ► screen if like you were doing that man is it just / could you do that no one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6962">TS</a>]
01:56:07 ◼ ► would know what that is right it it is kind of a lack of a better word gross to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6967">TS</a>]
01:56:15 ◼ ► me like as somebody who's been a long time Mac user and always objected to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6975">TS</a>]
01:56:19 ◼ ► filename extensions in general not just three-letter ones but just the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6979">TS</a>]
01:56:22 ◼ ► idea because I like we had a more elegant system in the eighties and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6982">TS</a>]
01:56:27 ◼ ► nineties on the Mac we didn't need file extensions period the name of the file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6987">TS</a>]
01:56:31 ◼ ► was just a name with upper and lower case letters and spaces just put a space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6991">TS</a>]
01:56:36 ◼ ► in the name you know like things in the real world and all the other computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/6996">TS</a>]
01:56:41 ◼ ► systems in a UNIX of course of course a loud spaces but you know worst idea in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7001">TS</a>]
01:56:47 ◼ ► the world like backslash escape them you know the command line and see me the you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7007">TS</a>]
01:56:54 ◼ ► know using a punctuation character like that and see me with hashtags like to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7014">TS</a>]
01:56:58 ◼ ► has takes our gross design wise but I do have to admit as they've gone on to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7018">TS</a>]
01:57:05 ◼ ► become part of the culture and there's no other way to do it like to me like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7025">TS</a>]
01:57:12 ◼ ► you know I can tax investment there's no advantage using hashtags invest because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7032">TS</a>]
01:57:17 ◼ ► it's not shared not public so tags investor are just like old school Mac [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7037">TS</a>]
01:57:21 ◼ ► filings you just type whatever you want upper and lower case with spaces and its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7041">TS</a>]
01:57:25 ◼ ► English and it looks nice and it's readable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7045">TS</a>]
01:57:27 ◼ ► but I totally understand how on a social network that the hashtag thing is genius [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7047">TS</a>]
01:57:33 ◼ ► because you can put it on screen and people know what it means and there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7053">TS</a>]
01:57:39 ◼ ► explanation and doesn't just bang whatever and there it is right because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7059">TS</a>]
01:57:45 ◼ ► you could argue that like in you know in our ever increasing capabilities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7065">TS</a>]
01:57:51 ◼ ► computationally like you should be able to say interest status message in it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7071">TS</a>]
01:57:57 ◼ ► sees like the Olympics and it should be able to know that the Olympics you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7077">TS</a>]
01:58:01 ◼ ► talking about is the same that you know a million other people are talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7081">TS</a>]
01:58:05 ◼ ► and so there should be no sort of the away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7085">TS</a>]
01:58:07 ◼ ► ABC radically to sort of link those together but how would you convey that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7087">TS</a>]
01:58:11 ◼ ► until there would be no way and you can you know and it shows up and all other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7091">TS</a>]
01:58:14 ◼ ► put you know billboards and stuff like that just hash tag whatever or user [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7094">TS</a>]
01:58:18 ◼ ► names you know it's it's really you know effectively it's been genius and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7098">TS</a>]
01:58:23 ◼ ► know and it's funny to that neither of those things came from Twitter that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7103">TS</a>]
01:58:29 ◼ ► right that users and Chris Messina you know definitely I mean we do we know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7109">TS</a>]
01:58:35 ◼ ► that he more or less invented the hashtag not as a Twitter employee just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7115">TS</a>]
01:58:38 ◼ ► as Twitter user it's just like total company building culture changing idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7118">TS</a>]
01:58:49 ◼ ► they just like said hey I think what what if we just used as tags shines and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7129">TS</a>]
01:58:55 ◼ ► tag names after the hashtag to group tweets and the odd thing i think is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7135">TS</a>]
01:59:01 ◼ ► little bit murkier in terms of last time I saw anybody try to figure out who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7141">TS</a>]
01:59:07 ◼ ► you know there was some will end it has ties to email yeah and and Flickr people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7147">TS</a>]
01:59:12 ◼ ► were doing it on Flickr where they were in the comments section you know it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7152">TS</a>]
01:59:16 ◼ ► it was a thing where if there's like 14 comment on a photo and you wanted reply [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7156">TS</a>]
01:59:23 ◼ ► to the seventh commenter you type at their username and then space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7163">TS</a>]
01:59:28 ◼ ► make meaning you were directing it at them to remember when the there was wind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7168">TS</a>]
01:59:33 ◼ ► sort of the location services like Foursquare and go on stuff started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7173">TS</a>]
01:59:36 ◼ ► gaining popularity was like it's super head that like the the at symbol has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7176">TS</a>]
01:59:41 ◼ ► already been sort of taken by using it to direct message at someone rather than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7181">TS</a>]
01:59:45 ◼ ► it being an actual location right you know would arguably make more sense yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7185">TS</a>]
01:59:49 ◼ ► it definitely will well and then the email that sense that's what it meant it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7189">TS</a>]
01:59:53 ◼ ► was you know if you were named John at daring fireball dotnet its mean you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7193">TS</a>]
02:00:00 ◼ ► means I John is me at this server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7200">TS</a>]
02:00:04 ◼ ► you know it kinda makes in the Twitter sense it doesn't accept when you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7204">TS</a>]
02:00:10 ◼ ► about the fact that the reply is supposed to be at right there's like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7210">TS</a>]
02:00:16 ◼ ► guess semantically the at is different than the username the ad is saying this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7216">TS</a>]
02:00:20 ◼ ► is at this person Gruber is really my twitter handle but it's just visually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7220">TS</a>]
02:00:28 ◼ ► it's just become you know at grouper is now my twitter handle and it's a funny [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7228">TS</a>]
02:00:33 ◼ ► way to to kind of take the use of these characters that are on everybody's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7233">TS</a>]
02:00:39 ◼ ► keyboard that we're kind of underused at was really mean don't do anyway I ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7239">TS</a>]
02:00:44 ◼ ► saw anything used the at symbol in my entire life before email was like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7244">TS</a>]
02:00:49 ◼ ► grocery store where they would say like to at one dollar or something like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7249">TS</a>]
02:00:54 ◼ ► just because it's shorter right it was all you know is almost like why in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7254">TS</a>]
02:01:02 ◼ ► world do we have these that bad especially on her keyboard how to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7262">TS</a>]
02:01:05 ◼ ► world that become a standard thing on everybody's keyboard but then gmail made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7265">TS</a>]
02:01:09 ◼ ► great use of it and then you know in this user name scenario it's become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7269">TS</a>]
02:01:14 ◼ ► great and then numbers I guess everybody uses a flight number one number two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7274">TS</a>]
02:01:18 ◼ ► but you know it's it's somehow works and it's a thing it looks geeky but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7278">TS</a>]
02:01:27 ◼ ► obviously if you just go in like surf hashtags on Twitter and Instagram I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7287">TS</a>]
02:01:31 ◼ ► millions of people use them normal people and so another one is like em [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7291">TS</a>]
02:01:36 ◼ ► percent to people use like it does anyone use that often is certainly in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7296">TS</a>]
02:01:40 ◼ ► writing but like you ever see that being used you know again sort of emails that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7300">TS</a>]
02:01:45 ◼ ► you sender or receiver people still using it as a shorthand for you know for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7305">TS</a>]
02:01:51 ◼ ► and there's a very few I it's a pet peeve of mine and so every once in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7311">TS</a>]
02:01:56 ◼ ► awhile like for example you know I don't have any co-writers during fireball but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7316">TS</a>]
02:02:03 ◼ ► one is sponsored by weekly sponsorships come in every once in awhile whoever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7323">TS</a>]
02:02:08 ◼ ► wrote the sponsored thing will use am percent instead of ants and I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7328">TS</a>]
02:02:11 ◼ ► change in plans but it's so it's not it's not rare but it's uncommon it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7331">TS</a>]
02:02:18 ◼ ► little unusual I don't know if there could be one that gets it gets taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7338">TS</a>]
02:02:23 ◼ ► yeah I think it's there I think it's totally right to be taken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7343">TS</a>]
02:02:27 ◼ ► yeah what percentage signed dollar sign that everybody knows with them and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7347">TS</a>]
02:02:33 ◼ ► they're kind of you know I guess the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7353">TS</a>]
02:02:35 ◼ ► the carrot carrot is maybe the only other one that you could use but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7355">TS</a>]
02:02:41 ◼ ► tilde and the back deck you know which is probably the least use key on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7361">TS</a>]
02:02:47 ◼ ► anybody's keyboard but there are two they're too small you can't they're not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7367">TS</a>]
02:02:51 ◼ ► visually discernible like other advantages of the at sign in the pound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7371">TS</a>]
02:02:55 ◼ ► sign or hash whatever you want to call that thing is that they're so visually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7375">TS</a>]
02:03:01 ◼ ► distinctive yes there they stand out there the full height and they're very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7381">TS</a>]
02:03:08 ◼ ► very visually distinctive ampersand has that going for it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7388">TS</a>]
02:03:13 ◼ ► aryan people people of course have use most notably I guess StockTwits is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7393">TS</a>]
02:03:19 ◼ ► one to use the money sign say that you're talking about a stock when you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7399">TS</a>]
02:03:23 ◼ ► it and I think that works its but yeah that's actually I forgot about that but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7403">TS</a>]
02:03:26 ◼ ► that does work right because because in the other it doesn't collide with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7406">TS</a>]
02:03:30 ◼ ► other sense because there is no number right if ya like dollar sign followed by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7410">TS</a>]
02:03:36 ◼ ► letters never had meaning before yes it actually is a good use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7416">TS</a>]
02:03:41 ◼ ► that's another one that's a good counter example I thought about the other day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7421">TS</a>]
02:03:45 ◼ ► actually was thinking about this with the hash symbol whether if I were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7425">TS</a>]
02:03:51 ◼ ► inventing marked down today whether I would still use that it it's a way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7431">TS</a>]
02:03:57 ◼ ► indicate I don't think it collides because there's a space after it and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7437">TS</a>]
02:04:04 ◼ ► don't think that you know I think I guess I would cause I couldn't think of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7444">TS</a>]
02:04:08 ◼ ► another character that I would use but you know hashtags in the system invented [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7448">TS</a>]
02:04:13 ◼ ► Martin and nobody's ever written me to complain about that so I'm guessing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7453">TS</a>]
02:04:17 ◼ ► it isn'ta problem why why did you how come why not use something like the at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7457">TS</a>]
02:04:25 ◼ ► symbol for like a link or something like that why do it the way that it's done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7465">TS</a>]
02:04:28 ◼ ► cuz its cuz I wanted it to be is visually non distracting as possible so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7468">TS</a>]
02:04:47 ◼ ► sounds like a show yeah alright MGC where thank you very much free time of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BtuzStMgk/7487">TS</a>]