The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► sold lots of stuff going on this week I guess the big one [TS]

00:00:03 ◼   ► you know I think if we look back if we did like a week by week highlight you [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► know years from now we'll look back on the big news this week is is no delas [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► being named the CEO of Microsoft [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► you have and it's a little weird cuz it leaked a little bit early and I think in [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► hindsight it's sort of like my initial take is why did it take so long to name [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► the guy goes it seems pretty obvious right I totally agree with that you know [TS]

00:00:34 ◼   ► there have been so many different front-runners have there been at first [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► it was Stephen you operate right now then it became the Ford CEO Alan Mulally [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► Mulally law and and then you know there were some other names bandied about the [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► Skype guy tony yeah yeah but there were more I guess there are more dark horses [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► but not soon adele is one that was always mention certainly cause he is one [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► of the senior executives there but it is you know it seems like it seems like [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► everyone is saying that this is the absolute right call but why wasn't it [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► recalls six months ago [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► yeah it and the only one that I could see that maybe they wanted to really [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► push on was Mulally Ford and he used to be at boeing which means he has [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► seattle-area roots and you know and and [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► while I first year I thought well for that's not really a technical company [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► but you do you read up on my wall he does have an engineering background is [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► he's not like a business school [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► mind he's you know and engineering guy who worked up to become an executive so [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► it it it's not outlandish and the story that was told on that was that a and [TS]

00:01:54 ◼   ► he's a little bit older he's he's already had a successful career he is [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► very successful Boeing turned you know ford around through a very difficult [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► time for the car industry he would just go to Microsoft for a couple of years [TS]

00:02:05 ◼   ► and and sort of take probably in it was it was even rumored under his wing and [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► sort of teaching the ropes of being a CEO yeah that's that sounds like a [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► pretty good theory about that because that is the one main criticism against [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► the people have them of Nadal is that he's never been a CEO at all and so [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► taking over one of the largest companies in the world is certainly going to be a [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► challenge it probably would have been beneficial to have a coach [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► quote unquote coach to do to help them along that but he's bill gates now to do [TS]

00:02:36 ◼   ► that right to do so right and I but I am I thought on the timing this deal when [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► Mulally backed out and just said you know pretty much point-blank you know [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► what I'm staying afford you know that's it then I don't understand why it took [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► months after that for for this to be named yeah it seems like who knows I [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► mean reading into all the various stories that have come out in in these [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► past few months it definitely does sound like there was quite a bit of tension on [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► the border between in particular sort of between some of the candidates they were [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► talking to and the power dynamics of wood gates remain chairman and would [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► Ballmer remain on the board because that would be a very a weird situation I [TS]

00:03:17 ◼   ► would imagine for someone an outsider especially to come into that company [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► with the two previous CEOs on their board of directors sort of you know well [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► we didn't do it this way in the past type thing coming up again and again and [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► again you can imagine so you know it seems like there is definitely a board [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► struggle a little bit and they finally it sorted that out but I still don't [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► know why they took six months I don't feel like there was a story [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► in the journal a day or two after the announcement that was reported to be the [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► hey here's what happened behind the scenes and there was a little bit of [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► color but not really anything that explained why it took as long as I get [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► the real story behind it did not come out [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► yeah yeah I think I read that as well and and there's there's other sort of [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► things that are yet to be seen on this suit the one guy from you know the [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► activist shareholder is going to be taking a board seat soon from ValueClick [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► I think that's what it was and so you know there was a lot of talk of when [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► that was going to happen like sort of bomber had to concede that that he was [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► going to allow this this activist shareholder to take the board seat and [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► what does that mean for the dynamics of the board now that that Gates is no [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► longer chairman and I don't like no one's really talking about that right [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► now but I don't know what that will mean because he would assume that the [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► activist shareholder wanted to take the board seat in order to shake things up [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► things have already been shaken up now so what what is his role there and [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► widest is sort of company still want that position I would imagine it's to [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► see how things go for the first few months to see if Microsoft has actually [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► willing now with new leadership to sort of changed direction in any way and I [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► don't know what are your thoughts on that you think that they actually will [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► sort of change from bombers lest you know reorg stance I don't know and it's [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► I think everybody you know I don't think you have to be juiced into microsoftr be [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► a keen observer just just common sense tells you that I think it was going good [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► he was on the show [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► couple months ago weeks ago we talked about just it's just weird that they did [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► the reorg then said bombers leaving you know it just really seems like hey we [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► want a new CEO and we want to reorg it seems like the way you do that is you [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► put the new CEO and in let the new CEO Ron and structure and improve the reorg [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► an end I guess naming an insider a guy you know who's been there [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► r it adds a little bit of continuity and and you know maybe that makes a little [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► bit more sense but then that again raises to me the question of why they [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► didn't just named him earlier yeah I think that by sort of doing that reorg [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► that that's certainly seems to speak to the notion that perhaps bomber wasn't at [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► all ready to go he sort of made it seem like it was his his own call and you [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► know ultimately it may have been but he was certainly you know at least pushed [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► in that direction they would imagine because it does seem insane that that [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► that he would orchestrate this entire change the company even if he thought [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► someone an insider was going to take over underneath him it's still like you [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► know it's it's it's someone else sort of setting setting the table for four your [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► dinner [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► well it's so weird a lot of thing and then and then what about the element of [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► you remember all this Stephen Elop stuff that lately about how how different you [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► know he's gonna cut everything up into little pieces and sell off certain [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► businesses and and we think that was from him or from one of his rivals camps [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► because it obviously it ultimately Nov torpedoed his his candidacy but it [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► certainly ended up not helping a cause he's not the CEO right now [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► yeah that's a good question either either it must be one or the other in [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► must either be that he thought it helped and that he must have also thought that [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► he knew you know like in private conversation that he had some support on [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► the board and that leading it would get outsiders you know like investors you [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► know I mean like the people were just talking right value at people who would [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► definitely I think that that's their sort of stated goal to get Microsoft to [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► cut itself up into little pieces to to sort of throw pressure behind that and [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► and make it you know whatever you put pressure on the ones who are maybe [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► pushing against the OPP to go his way or you know and it is you know and it's it [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► sounds you know you start you say this and it sounds a little silly and you [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► start thinking maybe you know everything's not like a movie but you [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► know what they're in real life there are part of politics and people do play [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► dirty tricks the other idea would be that it was somebody else who ceded it [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► to make him look bad like he can't keep his mouth shut and leaked to the press [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► sort of guy yeah that's sort of you know again who knows what's actually going on [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► but that sounds really plausible because of the you saw what the reaction was to [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► it when that happens it's like oh my god this is insane you know like there were [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► two camps as there always are you know the people who who think that Microsoft [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► should be split up her like hell yeah this is exactly what they need to do it [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► and there's the people are just looking at the company overall and just having [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► gone through this reorganization like oh my god this is this going to throw [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► things into further disarray this is pretty much the end of Microsoft if they [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► let this happen if I had to guess though I think that it was Elop and his people [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► who leaked it because if it were and he could've [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► there are ways for him to you know he somehow tried got thrown under the bus [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► by somebody else there's ways that he could spend it the other way you know [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► and if it wasn't his actual plan to put the company up like that you know he [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► could have come out and just said so yeah said this you know that didn't come [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► from me that's not my plan I don't know yet what if it's it would if it was a [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► situation where he started knew that he at that point somehow he knew that he [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► wasn't the front-runner and he thought let's just try something wild and you [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► know sort of a John McCain kidding Sarah Palin and and it backfires what what's [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► the old saying never attribute to malice what can be attributed to stop Italy [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► and I always thought that that made a lot of sense even with the whole thing [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► where he was in Nokia and when he first went there from Microsoft and there are [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► a lot of people who said wait they've hired a guy from Microsoft and then he [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► comes in and the first thing he says is we should did all of our existing plans [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► and go with Windows Phone and a lot of people said you know is he like like a [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► double agent is he the puppet government right now I mean what if he's coming [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► here in purposely trying to run the company into the ground so that [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► Microsoft can buy them and then he ran the company into the ground lost a lot [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► of shareholder value and and made tens of millions of dollars from self right [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► with a crazy contract that was structured in a way that it if the [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► company lost a lot of value and was sold for the mobile handset division was told [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► that he would profit it had played out you know conspiracy theorists would have [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► a field day with that one because it's perfectly along those lines and and so I [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► don't know I mean it actually makes sense both ways that he's actually not [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► very good at his job or is devilishly good but devious you know both [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► explanations make sense I don't think either explanation makes him a good pic [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► to be Microsoft CEO though I agree and and there's there's another survey [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► interesting wrinkle to this when I was sort of reading through a series that I [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► realize which is that so now I'm not being CEO he is going to be when the [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► when the deal I think the deal's closing sometime this quarter with Nokia he will [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► be the one put in charge of the devices business basically and that was with the [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► previous reorg if you remember there was this there was a sort of Brit big press [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► cycle around Julie Larson green right who was previously an executive in that [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► one of the senior executives at the company and she was being elevated to [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► senior executive and put in charge of the devices thing right before they [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► announced the the Nokia deal and I remember I think there was [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► i dont member who ran the profile may have been the Virgin may have been [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► someone else but they had a big profile on her and how like she's ascending to [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► the top of the company in and maybe you know like maybe she will one day be CEO [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► and now all of a sudden with the with the nuclear deal you office is now her [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► boss she got demoted essentially and you know and and then thinking there was [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► that well maybe it's only a temporary thing because maybe win you know when [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► you up its CEO she will get her job back but it obviously didn't play out that [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► way [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► yeah and is she still and she's not in charge of Windows now look what what it [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► is I do know that she was I know she was for a while she worked with Sinofsky [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► yeah right when she took over when when he was out and sort of took over that [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► thing but yeah I believe with the reorg she was the one being put in charge of [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► the division that is now in turn will be in charge of once once there I think one [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► thing it brings to my mind and it really shows I think I really do think that [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► just how how badly a job bomber didn't certain ways and I dunno I know that he [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► you know under his leadership the company's revenues and profits have gone [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► up yet even over the last few years and that's you know it so he's by no measure [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► a complete failure and and I think you know four years it's not just after the [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► fact but all along he's publicly stated that that's how we measure the success [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► of the company right on some measures you know Microsoft board got exactly [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► what they thought they should have thought they were gonna get under bomber [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► but one of the ways that I think that he really left them in the lurch was was [TS]

00:13:43 ◼   ► with how many other executives he effectively pushed out over the last [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► five six years yikes [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► ski like Ray Ozzie [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► Robbie box the other two Xbox Guide a allard Baylor right who you know a lot [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► of people sort of [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► you know even just a couple of years ago even sure what he's up to anymore but [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► even just a couple years ago a lot of people considered him sort of appear to [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► like a Tony Fadell like a rival you know like right you know near the top and [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► then charge of consumer devices in a keen eye for you know leading that sort [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► of team and all those people were gone and all those people who know you know [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► some of them maybe they should have been gone I don't know I always thought Ray [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► Ozzie for example to me was a little bit was not a practical person that always [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► seemed to me when I listen to him talk that he died I was like what did you [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► really say I don't know never it never really made a lot of Sandwell it and he [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► i mean he had he had sort of the hardest of all to step into which was replacing [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► the gates are alright the Chiefs are so I'm not going to say that all of them [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► should have stayed or that it was possible but the fact is that none of [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► them stayed all of them are gone and so in terms of continuity and picking and [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► somebody from the inside and having a smooth transition which you know let's [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► just face it in some aspects the public relations of a CEO transition are the [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► stakes are high but the optics are simple right what you really want is a [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► nice smooth handoff with a handshake and a smile and it all happens in one [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► announcement [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► right it's I'm stepping down and I'm happy to say the board is already [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► approved that my protege insert name here is replacing me the companies in [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► great hands we work together for the last so many years here she has led this [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► part of the company's great success can be happier to great day for the company [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► there you go and then chooses which is exactly what Apple did under very [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► different circumstances for the stepping down of the sea right it was but [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► you know Apple was clearly set up where that's in some alternate universe where [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► you know jobs stayed a step ahead of the cancer but decided you know I took a [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► look at what happened with the cancer and took a look at what he'd done [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► through you know the release of the iPad and said you know what I'm going to [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► Hawaii right I'm going to become chairman of the board and I'm gonna come [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► in for two or three weeks a year and I'm going to Hawaii for the other 50 49 [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► weeks here it would have been Tim Cook is you know he's been COO for all this [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► time he's done a great job [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► companies ingredients you know sign are right it would have been exact same [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► transition just you know not you know without the tragedy [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► yes embalmer really it in and I can't help but feel that you know political [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► intrigue wise the dead he did that on purpose [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► you know that it was to you know it's sort of a godfather mafia movies type [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► scenario but with the city killing them it's just getting squeezing people out [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► of the company [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► yea and they're at their long been those sort of rumors that that is what Ballmer [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► was like you know not so even secretly doing sort of just anyone who was was [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► rising to a level that seemed like a good challenge him in within the company [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► was was somehow immediately you know exited just take for example Sinofsky [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► who is very smart guy and when you read like he enjoys blogging now and stuff is [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► so obvious to me very cogent and makes a lot of sense [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► you know I think if he had still been at the company clearly would have been a if [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► not the leading candidate and he wasn't there anymore and that once he's not [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► there anymore I feel like PR wise the board was kind of you know legally [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► speaking of course they can hire anybody you know they could hire you know they [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► could try to hire Tim Cook they could hire you know they can certainly bring [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► Sinofsky back but bringing Sinofsky back would be like a slap and bombers face [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► and it would make the company look bad for sure they keep their hands were tied [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► in terms of if any of those people who left the company if the board actually [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► thought these are good candidates to lead the company so do you what do you [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► think happens now with Nutella as CEO do you think that there will be more [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► internal sort of shake-up and strafed you see that do you think people will [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► leave because they were either passed over like you know we'll see what [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► happens with Eli by assume that he can't he must have some sort of you know [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► handcuffs to that are part of the Nokia deal where he has to come over and [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► actually stayed within the company for awhile but you know there's a there's [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► others there's no tony Bates we're talking about there's there's several [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► others who you know could have felt like they were slated in some way and are [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► they are they gonna feel we are now being managed by being overseen by what [TS]

00:18:57 ◼   ► was their peer before I don't know I don't know enough about the company said [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► to have a sense that I my guess is no though it sounds to me and reading the [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► blogs of people who are more juiced into Microsoft and and you know know people [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► who work there it seems like he's a very pop scene as a popular choice from [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► within the company [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► yeah if there are executives who might leave if you like might try to get out [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► now or whatever I don't know but I think in terms of the rank-and-file though [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► it's seen as a good move [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► yeah and I think that's sort of been the consensus among everything you read even [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► sort of talking to Microsoft employees now they seem pretty excited about this [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► I do think though I think there is still the lingering questions in the air as to [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► once this honeymoon period is over what they are actually going to do is it [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► going to just be executing bomber [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► strategy with Nutella or are they going to actually try to make some different [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► choices with you know some of the products that just aren't going anywhere [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► I want to other big question I have is what is bill gates's actual yeah and and [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► was you know it's forget how they phrase it was actually a very deftly turn of [TS]

00:20:15 ◼   ► phrase where he's not that he stepped down as chairman but he's stepped up in [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► two steps [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► day-to-day role it's actually a no we laugh but it's actually a very good but [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► it totally totally you know so yes so he said he's gonna be spending a third of [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► his time right on this Microsoft now which is significant considering before [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► obviously he was chairman but I think he was you know very involved in a very [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► major way at all it's all his philanthropy and so now he's willing to [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► take on this more but you know what what does that mean you don't know is see I [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► think you know the the easiest thing in the world that I think he could do that [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► would be beneficial to the company is just just a something as simple as sort [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► of being the yes no man you know like the last the last word on like what they [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► actually either they decide to to go after in terms of new projects or what [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► they actually ship it just seems like you know they just sort of her at this [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► place now where the where they sort of put everything out there and in Windows [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► 8 is it is a good example of that in my mind because I mean all of us looking at [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► it from the outside not all of us but a lot of us looking at it from the outside [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► I think so too so where this was going with you know I remember I was talking [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► to do sort of developers who are sort of beta testing windows 8 and like you know [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► trying to gauge their their their thoughts on it and everyone was like [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► unanimous in saying like this is gonna be a total nightmare for the company and [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► somehow the company didn't see that they thought it'd be a great thing and they [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► shipped it like I don't know if they just weren't talking to people on the [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► outside or what but there should have been someone within the company who with [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► the power to be able to say look let's let's stop here I know what to look [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► really bad if we if we delay and operate major operating system but you know it [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► might be worse if we ship something [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► you know the the community just totally rejects which is what happened I you [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► know my my take on it as I wrote last week is that I think that Windows 8 was [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► designed to fit a goal as opposed to being designed to be good in and of [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► itself by which I mean that to me [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► bomber never shook the view that the way things ought to be in the world the [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► right way the way the industry should be should be that somewhere around 95% of [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► all computing devices should be running Windows and thats was no you know iOS [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► and Android combined in the two very different ways but you know hand in hand [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► over the last six years [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► change that to the case where did you is the one who crashes I think brilliantly [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► that it's only like if you count smartphones and tablets as computing [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► devices which i think is very very fair you're installing apps on your browsing [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► the web [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► yeah you're doing all the same Windows computers there's more windows devices [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► in use than ever before in the aggregate but because there are so many other [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► computing devices that same explosion of new devices that only you know in 2007 [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► ninety percent of all computing devices were running Windows 98 in 2013 at the [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► end of the year it was like 38% 35% it's an enormous number but now it's like the [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► world is federated it's you know there's there's three or four mega platforms for [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► computing devices in Windows is just one of them and it's not even a majority [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► anymore and it never will be again but I don't think bomber ever came to grips [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► with that and accepted it and I think windows aids goal was like people want [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► touch screens will add a touch screen thing to it and then [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► everything in theory could be running Windows 8 and yep that'll be good and [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► and that's that's so crazy when you think about that just you know when when [TS]

00:24:08 ◼   ► you're saying there right now it's just like Microsoft obviously looked at the [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► world they saw you know their dominant position and you have to assume that [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► they were like looking around them saying like who could possibly compete [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► with us and sort of looking at the competitions like Apple is out there and [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► they have a very small percentage of of market share with with with Max and [TS]

00:24:28 ◼   ► instead what happened is they were just totally blindsided cuz they didn't [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► realize that the competition wouldn't come in the form of an actual computer [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► it would come in the form of a phone and then later a tablet and now bomber see [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► you know saw that 67 years too late and now is trying to squeeze windows which [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► doesn't even make sense of course there are no more windows onto these devices [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► in order to unify and get get the house back in order but you just can't do that [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► yeah and I really don't think it matters that much and I you know I got a lot of [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► pushback on that or I got a lot most closely agreement but I got some [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► pushback on my piece last week from people who who truly do believe that [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► what they want is in in admitting that Windows 8 as it is is not perfect not [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► good enough but that the goal is tenable to have one operating system have a [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► device that is terrific for mouse and keyboard trackpad and keyboard and mouse [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► pointer on screen and pixel precise control and touch and that you could do [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► it and then it would simplify things because you've got what you know all [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► that you know you can have your cake and eat it too and you know I'm not going to [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► say the wrong I can't prove that they're wrong all I can say is that everything [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► i've seen today suggests that they're wrong and you know your thinking about [TS]

00:25:54 ◼   ► it of course like utopian world where everything is perfect [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► would you rather have one device that can do everything vs sort of two or [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► three devices that you have to have with you at all times of course I think [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► everyone would want that but it's not that simple it's not that simple for [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► both users but it's [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► visible for developers can you imagine a developer trying to develop you know of [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► a Windows 8 application for both a phone and a computer that operates in the same [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► way I mean they would operate in the same way and so they would they would [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► take so much more developments into it and like do you think a startup is going [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► to be able to do that and you know a company with like two people they're [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► going to have to to do all this work to get something to work on this Windows [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► unified platform it's it's it's just not realistic to think about it least right [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► now so I don't know you know who in their right mind would actually argue [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► that that we can live in that world right now just weekends and you know to [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► me I have always said you know question I've tried to you know my whole writing [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► career is what is design what does it mean and it's hard it's hard to really [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► nail it down but the best explanation I've ever come up with this design is [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► making decisions to solve problems it's the decision-making and I'll go back to [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► when they unveiled the surface strategy and they came out with two they had the [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► surface that runs real windows and can have you know traditional Windows apps [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► and it runs on Intel chips the surface pro it was great and then there's the [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► surface RT which was the more iPad style one which ran on arm and was thinner and [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► lighter but only ran into the Metro apps to me that's a failure of the design it [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► both are reasonable strategies but you can't ship both right there was just [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► it's nowhere near as profound difference but I know for a fact that I'm sure you [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► I think we even talked about this but late in the game for the original iPad [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► and the original one and for the first two years had an equal with bezel all [TS]

00:28:08 ◼   ► the way around the screen easy to forget now with the air in the new mini [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► and they had version with the home button where it is and then they had [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► another version where the home button was on the long side and that in other [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► words that is the default orientation of an iPad for horizontal or vertical [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► landscape or portrait and they had both virgins until very late in the game and [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► only made that decision at the end and in fact if I'm not mistaken I'm sure if [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► I am that I get better but I'm pretty sure that the coordinate system of the [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► iPad for developers I don't even know if it still has the same but it is the [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► coordinate system was such that the 00 point made it seem as though the home [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► button should be on the long side not the short side they didn't ship both of [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► those who hate they didn't say hey if you want an iPad figure out which way [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► you want to hold it and you know most of the time and by the one with the home [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► button as such they shipped one they had to decide you know and I know that that [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► happened to be a contentious decision within the company and it was it really [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► was like you know like a 51 to 49 type thing and I you know surely you know [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► because it when it came out that the deciding vote came down to two Steve [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► Jobs but it was you know a lot of people on both sides but I don't think anybody [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► even the people who wanted it on the other side you know the other location [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► nobody would have endorsed the idea of shipping both you know and I feel like [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► that's what that surface pro vs surface RT is that there were people within the [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► company wanted it one way and people who wanted it the other and so they said [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► okay let's make everybody happy will ship both yeah I wonder if if if sort of [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► bombers thought on that was like look we're already behind in this space let's [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► just get both out there and see which works if if any of them work and maybe [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► so but let the masses decide what they want since were we really can't afford [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► to make make a one bed here but you know I can't imagine that is how they played [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► out because of course they took it was in the 900 million dollar right down the [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► party that's it [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► is very detrimental to their that one quarter where it basically saying can [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► take their entire quarter so and that's not bombers as we just talked about you [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► know he's he's the business delivered his numbers and that was the one quarter [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► he did really awful on a billion here a billion there actually do have a problem [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► no matter how big you are ya right let me take a break here and thank our first [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► punch her first sponsor is our good friends at Squarespace you know [TS]

00:30:47 ◼   ► Squarespace Squarespace is constantly improving their platform with new [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► features new designs and even better support beautiful designs for you to [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► start with and all the style options you need to create your own unique website [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► for yourself or your business [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► easy to use their support team is available 24 hours a day seven days a [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► week if a hundred employees on this customer care team alone based in New [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► York it's an amazing thing that separates support alone is one of the [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► most amazing things [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► services plans start at just $1 a month and includes a FREE domain name if you [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► sign up for a year eight bucks a month for a top-notch platform for launching a [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► website you can start a trial with no credit card required pretrial right and [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► and that I just noticed from another sponsor another thing earlier and that [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► that no credit card required is a big deal because everybody knows if you free [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► trial requires a credit card that means if you forget to cancel your gonna start [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► getting charged and then you got a deal with that no credit card required free [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► try you don't start paying you don't give her credit card till you want to [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► pay and when that happens when you do want to pay to use the offer code bond B [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► O N D and your get 10% off your purchase and they'll know you came from the show [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► my thanks to Squarespace go to Squarespace dot com and remember the [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► offer code bond James Bond [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► a pic they're doing like these cutie codes were they pick things that are of [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► interest to this post to the show but it's easy to remember so go there and my [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► thanks to them they were done with Microsoft does that mean it's gonna be a [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► story for the next knows how many years I do that I guess the only other thing [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► is the fact that that telecoms from the the server-side servers and my colleague [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► Q branch Brent Simmons has written about it that he's really happy because he's [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► done a lot of coating on Azure you know as a backend for an iOS developer and is [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► his point I thought was really really astute where the old Microsoft was [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► always in their own universe technically and you know and it worked out for them [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► but you know they wrote everything was there that was their own OS their own [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► kernel you know they're the only ones in in the world who you know the whole [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► world effectively gone UNIX and Mac OS 10 is Unix Linux is a clone of Unix [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► Android runs on Linux kernel and add the kernel level you know everybody whole [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► world went UNIX except you know if your TiVo runs and Virgin Atlantic's except [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► Windows Windows is like this alternate universe it's this everything was their [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► own their own programming languages their own API's everything that a [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► technical leader in networking their own mail server you know everybody else is [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► using IMAP they have Outlook you know it's all proprietary that was the [TS]

00:33:52 ◼   ► Microsoft Way and it you know a little bit of stubbornness strategically it was [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► often about locked in [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► the windows server division than $1 and is very different you know they they [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► support you know you can do things like you know really hip modern stuff like [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► node.js and how do people say that they say the dot dot Jas you know yeah and I [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► wonder so you know you'd you'd hope that that mentality sort of spreads to the [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► other divisions now and they sort of Microsoft Certified opens up I think you [TS]

00:34:29 ◼   ► know if if they are going to do that Dell is obviously the right person to [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► make that happen I think that he recognizes it is realistic about the [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► world that we live in the world Microsoft exists and now and it can't be [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► the siloed behemoth anymore because that is the way that's the way forward of you [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► know the company eventually you know finding hard times very hard times [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► potentially while you know we talked about the numbers are great now you know [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► the numbers can be deceiving a lot of times the numbers are great for Nokia [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► the numbers are great for RIM leading up to win over said they're not great and [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► you could argue that microsoft certainly has a lot of the characteristics of [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► those same companies even when posting great numbers because there's a few [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► things that can happen that can make the ship sort of start to sink really [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► quickly and the della is given sort of all the stuff that you're talking about [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► and his his willingness to realize the world that we live in now I think that [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► he is probably the best candidates is sort of try to wake of Microsoft up yeah [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► I think numbers financial numbers are and I don't think there's any kind of [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► deep inside and it is common sense but it it seems like an awful lot of people [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► can be pulled by there a lagging indicator not a leading indicator right [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► so the iPhone didn't make a huge dent financially for a ball for a couple of [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► years you know it happened pretty quickly but certainly 2007 it it was not [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► a significant financial thing I mean the whole thing was a wedding their goal for [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► the first year as a selling one million phones yep [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► and you know a lot of people thought that was a lot of people thought they [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► weren't gonna do it or whether was it ten million in the first appearance may [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► be going in for the year maybe was for the year but yeah he did state that [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► million thing he wanted to get that there was a certain percentage that they [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► were trying to hit one percent of the phone market that's right it took a [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► little bit and if you just looked at how many phones they were selling when the [TS]

00:36:37 ◼   ► first iPhone came out it was not that huge and conversely RIM had a great year [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► in 2007 and 2008 Nokia was still good I was in the research on an an article on [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► writing maybe we'll talk about it later in the show the same same subject but [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► just about that same subject leading numbers as a leading lagging indicator [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► in October of 2007 here is a headline in the New York Times [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► this is five or six months after their iPhone shipped Nokia profit soars as [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► marketshare need nears 40 percent right you know the numbers are not I don't [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► know I think that that's right [TS]

00:37:26 ◼   ► who when Microsoft CFO step down early right and what did you write about that [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► I thought that was just remember that really stuck out my mind I think I said [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► using the game of Thrones analogy like who is who is best poised to know when [TS]

00:37:43 ◼   ► winter is coming right [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► the CFO right who is second best to know the CEO and so both of those guys are [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► gone right that this you know if there's anybody in Microsoft who maybe had a [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► good smell something in the air that you know not this quarter not next quarter [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► but down the road [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► yeah let's start looking at talking about years rather than quarters and [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► maybe look one or two years ahead [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► you know trouble is brewing very likely would have been the CFO he got out of [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► Dodge did ended by the way he i think he said at the time and Microsoft statement [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► at the time was it you know he was taking some he's been in the in the [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► ranks for you know thirty forty years or whatever it was and he is finally ready [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► to just take time and be with his family indefinitely and I think four months [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► later he was in a new CNN right and that does get back down to the those those [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► very simple PR optics of executive shake-ups a big companies that you know [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► you always say that you never want to make it look like there's any kind you [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► know no matter how ugly it is you want to downplay the ugliness [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► you know and that's true for all companies are not just laughing at [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► Microsoft mean it's the same way when forestall got pushed out at Apple and [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► they were a little bit little bit honest about it with the whole increased [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► collaboration you know which is right exactly where they were indirectly on [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► this they did say that for so was was the problem but they indicated there was [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► a problem with you know with everyone sort of being on the same page right you [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► could read between the lines in it came out that those of us who are left are [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► gonna get along a lot better now have you heard of anything from about him [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► recently by the way no I have not as you I haven't either no I would assume you [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► know like the way that these deals usually are structured is that someone [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► is you know being shown the door but at the same time they've somewhat [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► proprietary information and knowledge about especially with Apple with top [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► secret things sort of being worked on that Apple certainly doesn't want them [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► going to a competitor and really doesn't want them out on the marketplace at all [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► and so you know they usually give them some sort of exit package which is very [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► well you know compensated for ensuring that they stay with the company for [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► something like a year sometimes more sometimes less [TS]

00:40:17 ◼   ► I think Tony Fadell may have had the same type of thing you know he's a [TS]

00:40:21 ◼   ► Fidelis was not as contentious no definitely not I think that that's a [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► hundred percent true but you know he was you know as forestall I believe is now [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► special advisor to the CEO or whatever [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► yeah I don't know if you still is or not it's it's you know they they never named [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► it what is period was I have heard I have not heard what he's up to [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► I have heard from a pretty good little birdie that yeah they exactly what [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► you're saying is did but that he was offered what in never forget the words a [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► truckload of money and you drive off in this truck full of cash and four acts he [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► did not know is how how long axis has gas was a year but maybe it's never over [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► the next year for the next year you do nothing you cannot work for anybody and [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► you cannot speak to anybody and you don't treat you don't have a facebook [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► you you know anybody in a reporter's call you you don't answer the phone [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► not just talk about Apple but anything right so I do think that that's what has [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► happened in the interesting thing now of course is that it has been a year it's [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► it's it's just over a year right now it was yeah it's like December so it's you [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► know i i i remembered looking it up for the date and I knew that it was after [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► all of the product announcements [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► you know right it was the Tide's a slow period [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► yeah I forgot it was November or December but it was somewhere around [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► there and I ever since then I've sort of like [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► just so you know double check to make sure that he hasn't started you know [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► maybe showing up at events and stuff like that but so far I've heard nothing [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► I heard from a one reader who saw him somewhere wasn't you know was just [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► thinking it's like he's not you know housebound is not under house arrest but [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► yeah it's so I do think that we will see him surface at some point in the next [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► few months I do wonder you know he's he's a rhodes of the young guy that he [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► could definitely do a startup if he wanted to he would certainly have no [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► problem getting any funding that he wanted he said he's 41 something he's [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► right around my age very very one of the weird what if one of the weird wild [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► cards is to sort of take us to be together what if Microsoft tries to hire [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► you know a lot of people that's like a frequently asked question in my reader [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► email is not now but during the whole run-up was would that be possible I [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► guess it's not impossible but I always thought that it wasn't a good match for [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► either company just because they're so different right in pretty much every way [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► right and I don't think that he would want to I would imagine he would do [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► something more like a lot more like Tony Fadell go get some funding and start [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► something new that would be obviously you know nasty came you know relatively [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► big relatively quickly sold for over three billion dollars which is you know [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► talking billions not millions pretty good deal but compared the Apple where [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► fidel was before very very small right but you can't start something that right [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► you can either start something new that's relatively small even if it has a [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► lot of investment and very big goals or you can step into an existing giant and [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► I i just don't see forestall stepping into an existing giant I guess I guess [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► maybe the only one I could see and I have no idea what he'll do any insight [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► into the only real knowledge of what's going on but I wouldn't be shocked if [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► somehow Facebook convinced him to come there and to do some sort of skunkworks [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► project [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► that you know that he would be best suited for it just like you feel when I [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► see I see Facebook do sort of these deals a lot where they'd a higher sort [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► of above what you think their weight should be right where they they [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► convinced these people to get in there and and sort of work on these projects [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► and just give them whatever resources they need and so that wouldn't actually [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► shocked me even though that would be a shot sort of a shocking headline I [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► wouldn't be so surprised by the Yeah Yeah I think I would see it more really [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► only one more as Facebook incubating aid and ambitious new division i-aa not that [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► he would step in and run anything that Facebook already has yeah I could see [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► that I would say that is one existing company that I could see him going to [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► couldn't see him going to Google couldn't Microsoft I just don't see it a [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► really down adjusted to seems like it's it's intriguing that think about it but [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► I just don't see how it really match would have matched up for either of them [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► yet agree I largely agree with that i think you know the only reason I bring [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► it up now is just because the new leadership saying you know like maybe [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► maybe he's able to be convinced that things are really going to do they [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► really want to change things and so you know this is how we get this is how much [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► we want to change things were bringing in a guy synonymous with sort of apple [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► and and one of Steve Jobs lieutenant from the next days you know it's really [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► show you how different were thinking here's a question i've i've thought [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► about and to me I don't know I don't really mean it as a joke I actually [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► actually makes me a little sad is did you think Scott Forstall upgraded his [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► phone to iOS 7 that's a very good it is funny but he's still wouldn't have to [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► write like there's you could still get away with running well as the last [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► version of 66 but he'd have to also be running an old iPhone 5 can't you can't [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► use an iPhone 5s and it did he get a five ass after like buy it online I he [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► seems like a green five see gardener but I i I know it is it's funny but it's not [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► I've met forestall a few types can say I'm close to home but I've met him he [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► was always very nice to me and you know i i liked him right and you know I would [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► I would also say that are clearly I'm a big fan of his work and wow you know [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► whether it was the right move or not to squeeze them out is almost beside the [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► point I just feel bad that it didn't work out I do in a certain way and I can [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► imagine it if it was his life's work i mean the only thing he ever did was work [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► it next it went right from college to next and worked his way up and you know [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► it was a continuous thing for his entire adult life working from next to Apple [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► and Mac OS 10 transition to Mac OS 10 to the entire creation of iOS and you know [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► I think very clearly they took iOS in a different direction and so yeah he'd be [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► using it everyday and staring at like the cause of his [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► what else what else is he going to do is not gonna switch to Android surely he [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► still is using an iPhone I think I think I can imagine my only real like I I [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► don't think I've ever interacted with I don't think in all the time we get all [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► the different events I don't think I ever actually spoke with him but I have [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► seen him of course of number of times and actually saw him out in about once [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► at a concert of all places and I just remember might might might lasting sort [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► of memory of that is it's him just like being very adamant about taking so many [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► pictures using his iPhone and you know that leads me to believe that even if he [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► hates I was seven he has to like the iPhone 5 just for the better camera [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► might be just using it solely for the camera and willing to forego his sort of [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► hatred if he has a 79 surely up until when the iPhone 5s came out he'd never [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► bought an iPhone in his life i mean he'd been using the new ones you know as soon [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► as they were you know prototypes were in from the factory [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► you know and and presumably every single detail in pixel of the OS met with his [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► approval or at least you know he'd gotten his input into a now to me it's [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► like it's like a weird [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► magnuson area what does he do go online and do it and he can't go to an Apple [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► store right so he's gotta go online or maybe no maybe as an assistant or [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► something you know this is like the end of Shawshank Redemption [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► like this is not but it's more like the character the old man who sort of gets [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► reintroduced into the world after all the years and right in prison for hate [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► it and use it doesn't know how to do anything right and it's a hasn't seen a [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► supermarket with with OCR scanners [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► was it had the thing with george bush the first george bush president has he [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► been a vice president for like you know from Mike 1980 and then he was the [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► president and then you know it came out like when he's running against clinton [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► in ninety-three he'd never seen a OCR scanner in a supermarket why make fun of [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► him for that guides you know hadn't done grocery shopping to what did you think [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► that the vice president does grocery shopping now so be you know last time [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► he'd been in the supermarket was like 1979 I don't know I just to his [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► something to imagine I don't know I'm betting he does I'm betting he's alive [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► everybody does to think it would be hard I think it also would be very hard for [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► someone like him to use old technology when he's been so bleeding edge of the [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► entire time [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► be frustrating but he's like in a unique situation where you know that the [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► what-ifs we'll never stop in terms of you know what he's got this hand but [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► that's my guess my guess is he has a 5s 2007 and just see this might even run I [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► was seven that one because it's finally doesn't crash that raises another [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► question do these sign up for a developer is shirley is old one doesn't [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► work he's can't you know I'm pretty sure that you know that is cut off from the [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► Apple VP endings can't just [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► do that and you think like he's been tinkering around with making some apps I [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► wonder why don't I mean it's absolutely the case I don't think that he was spent [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► his days as a senior VP writing code but I mean he you know that's he worked his [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► way up from the right yeah I remember there was it was it [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► WWDC session a couple years ago and it's sort of an obscure one and I forget who [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► is leading it but I was sitting in the audience and it was but the guy on stage [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► was an old next and what he's doing is still just an engineer senior engineer [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► at our bond is given the WBC presentation he was talking about [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► something and iOS that was maybe it was back those 10 but either way that had [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► roots back to an old thing that he had done it next in 1989 and he's here and [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► show you what I did and then I wrote 1989 milos next and you know you could [TS]

00:51:33 ◼   ► see the roots are here today and he was like here's the about box from the thing [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► I wrote then and it was the credits for him and Scott Forstall I don't happen to [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► the other guy and is enforced always till the senior VP was spent last year [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► but it was a big big belly laugh at the audience yes he was he was listed second [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► cuz he was like an intern or something but you know he was writing code I don't [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► know could be yeah it would be interesting if he came out with [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► something if he you know came out you know D cloaked with some kind of start [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► up that was iOS related and so he's always been a software guy so you'd [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► assume he's not going to do sort of the Tony Fadell you know start up so he [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► would do more of a software type start-up you wouldn't you would assume [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► maybe he's maybe he would pair up with someone who has sort of hardware [TS]

00:52:30 ◼   ► experience and certainly there are plenty of Acts Apple people now with the [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► hardware experience that he would know but if he were to do something by [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► himself it would presumably be something and software [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► I don't know good question I take a break and thank my second sponsor and it [TS]

00:52:54 ◼   ► is our good friends at pack place back place is unlimited on throttled back up [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► for $5 a month they have an iOS app for Mac install back plays on your Mac it's [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► a little just a simple little thing that goes in System Preferences runs in the [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► background uploads everything on your Mac that you want if you have something [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► you don't want backed up is easy to make exclusion folders everything you want [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► backed up though goes to their thing in the cloud $5 a month as much space as [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► you have in your Mac back at all just takes longer for the first backup that's [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► the only there is no catch even iOS app that you can use to access and share any [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► of your files so when you're out about you can fire up the app on your iPhone [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► get anything that's on your Mac cuz its mirrored in the cloud their profile look [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► something up its founded by X Apple engineers I always emphasized this [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► because it is written by people who you know knowing get the Mac it doesn't feel [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► like some kind of foreign thing that was ported to Mac runs great on Mavericks up [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► to date there's no add-ons no gimmicks no additional charges you just sign up [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► you can sub start your free give it a try see that it works like a two-week [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► trial period [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► and then when you're ready to go when you see how it works $5 a month per [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► computer and that's it [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► the simplest online backup program to use just install it does the rest and I [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► always emphasized this it's such peace of mind I'm happy back plz user and it [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► it is it's such a peace of mind to have a backup that's off site because you [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► just never know you know fire theft like I said I pointed out when marco was on [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► the show the other week you know the things you don't even think of light [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► water damage like a pipe in the ceiling above your computer is and then and [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► somebody some reader wrote in and said that exact scenario happened to them [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► where they're upstairs neighbor left their tub running and he came in and his [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► MacBook was just completely drenched you know by the gallons of water just [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► completely fried everything on his desk is hard drive so if you have like a time [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► machine hard drive next year that's good but it's not off-site back boys gives [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► you peace of mind really great service where do you go to find out more go to [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► www.blackberry.com / daring fireball and don't know you came from here and then [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► they came from the show and can recommend them enough really really good [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► stuff thanks to back please [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► about Facebook paper yes I have not reviewed you don't have facebook yes [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► this is the dilemma and explain why I have not written about this much under [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► incredible I have never signed up for Facebook still haven't have never been [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► tempted to until now because I'm tempted [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► Facebook just use paper and in fact I i've been talking about this for longer [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► than just the last week because I actually got a briefing from Facebook in [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► New York a week or two before paper came out they you know Mike Mathis emailed me [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► and said hey you know I got 55 got something to show you know what might [TS]

00:56:31 ◼   ► come up and see you in New York as I sure and i was just blown away [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► absolutely positive I haven't written about it because I don't know how to [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► contextualize it yet because I am so why don't you just make it can you make like [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► just a dummy account friend anyone just you know now you know and it's we I [TS]

00:56:48 ◼   ► guess that's what I should do I don't know I mean I've seen I most of my [TS]

00:56:51 ◼   ► experience at the apt is with Mike's account I just used my baby he just has [TS]

00:56:57 ◼   ► a beautiful family and that's why you're like well you know that's the pushback [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► against it the pushback against paper that I've seen is that it's it it's [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► great if your friends are all UI design artists who take great photos and it [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► isn't great if you're like most people on Facebook and its family takes really [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► shitty photos you no posts [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► you know cat gifts and stuff like that so your your predicament raises an [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► interesting question which is that I wonder if Facebook is able to either for [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► the first time obviously you know that you're you're certainly an oddity in the [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► in being in a developed country you know and not having having Facebook at this [TS]

00:57:46 ◼   ► point but I wonder if they feel like it's also an opportunity to not only [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► bring in new but re-engage sort of people who are who are burnt out by [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► Facebook which is many many people I mean basically you talk to anyone in you [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► know within your own personal circles you'll have several people who say like [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► Facebook is so lame now Facebook is sort of it's all just you know it's also my [TS]

00:58:10 ◼   ► parents or its just you know just sort of like old high school friends and I [TS]

00:58:16 ◼   ► never talk to any more using it so it's really not that interesting to me [TS]

00:58:19 ◼   ► anymore but paper you know is a complete reimagining of what the experience [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► should be like and there are definitely things that I like and don't like about [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► it certainly is beautifully designed and I think there's some great functionality [TS]

00:58:33 ◼   ► in there but I don't really i mean week we could dive into all the little of [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► little things about it I'm a little concerned that a lot of what and you [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► will know this better having talked to Mike Maddux about it directly but I'm a [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► little bit concerned that it's that it's a little bit too worried about sort of [TS]

00:58:51 ◼   ► addressing the Twitter question head-on which is you know like no one is using [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► facebook really to talk about current events or at least the right people [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► aren't using Facebook that they want to get the word out there like during the [TS]

00:59:04 ◼   ► Super Bowl you know like sweets are going crazy everyone's talking about it [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► is anyone using facebook facebook tried to get people using it this year they [TS]

00:59:10 ◼   ► they'd reached out to buttress celebrities [TS]

00:59:13 ◼   ► document leaked you know talking about like what you should be using Facebook [TS]

00:59:17 ◼   ► for during the Super Bowl in so when I look at paper when I look beyond the [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► obvious beauty on the surface I see sort of a a desire to get back into sort of [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► the real-time news conversation which I don't know I don't know if that's coming [TS]

00:59:34 ◼   ► from the right place or not [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► yeah I think you're off on [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► and having talked to Mike about it I don't think that's what their goal is I [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► think their goal is the little bit it's almost obvious which is that in fact [TS]

00:59:51 ◼   ► it's a direct answer to the thing I just said a minute ago that the that the [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► complaint is that people aren't cultivating what they post to Facebook [TS]

00:59:58 ◼   ► to make it beautiful and papers theory is the paper teams there is nobody is [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► going to do that until we give them beautiful way a beautiful interface to [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► do it that it's it's there if we build it they will come [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► theory that they have to build a beautiful interface to paper first that [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► encourages a sort of moral I know that a lot of people are gonna laugh and say [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► come on Facebook and artistic expression [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► you know not what it was for but that's you know that's a little bit high [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► polluting but it's more like what they're thinking that if we give him [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► this beautiful serene interface that that's why that's when people will start [TS]

01:00:41 ◼   ► posting things that actually fit better in paper in a little bit more cultivated [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► but curated I don't know what you want to say but that people will generate [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► content that fits in paper and fitzy feels right and paper only after paper [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► is out and actually exists that has a good old first so I don't think it's [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► about real-time stuff okay that's interesting so that's why I can [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► understand how I can understand that line of thinking I will say one other [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► thing that I did here so this was sort of this was being talked about in paper [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► was released in a bunch of people sort of tweeted about it I did and others but [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► have since heard from a pretty good source on this that it's also not out of [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► left field to think that this is how Facebook is sort of experimenting with [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► new UI to see what would work for the actual product itself so I asked I asked [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► about that like so much of this response did you get that not a direct response [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► and I you know so I don't put words in the [TS]

01:01:48 ◼   ► Mikes mouth or anybody so i didnt get but you know I think reading between the [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► landing just looking at the app it is clear you know and it's exactly what you [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► wrote on Paris lemon that there is no way that they could drop you know put [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► out a Facebook app version that was this and just no way too many users right and [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► its two way to different and it doesn't have the complete Facebook experience it [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► doesn't have everything though it does have a lot i think is way more than I [TS]

01:02:22 ◼   ► thought it it's it is a very largely a you know it's you know what it's a lot [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► like it's a lot like mobile email clients where you know maybe your mobile [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► email client doesn't do everything that you can do with the email but it does [TS]

01:02:37 ◼   ► most of it right there you can do most of what you doin email with the mail [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► claim you're using on your phone even if it doesn't do everything and you might [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► have to use something at your desk to create I don't think I can you create [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► new folders in mail are most mail apps on iphone maybe not but you know you can [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► certainly read all of your mail and reply to it [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► do a lot of other stuff flag comments that Facebook paper is largely a an [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► alternative to Facebook . out your phone when I already I replace facebook.com [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► with paper pretty much [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► day one because it is so much better it's just a number of things are better [TS]

01:03:15 ◼   ► about it I find the performance actually better which is sort of surprising given [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► how visual it is but formats is better [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► it's obviously looks a lot better and it does like you know what you're saying it [TS]

01:03:25 ◼   ► performs the basic sort of the high-level functions that you need the [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► one thing its missing the one complaint that people do bring up you use Facebook [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► is that is missing events and the rumor of course is that Facebook is working on [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► a separate events at the air that's what I think [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► well and I think it all it it fits and I think you know I'd certainly don't know [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► I don't don't know his mind but the evidence that I've seen with the [TS]

01:03:52 ◼   ► acquisitions they've made including mattresses push pop press little over [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► two years ago when he bought so far and also knowing and you know this is [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► something I can't name names but its iOS and Mac developer community they pretty [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► much went to anybody who's done like Apple Design Award level work and made a [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► quick higher offers [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► there's an awful lot of an awful lot of people who you think I wonder if they [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► went to them the answer is probably yes which makes sense for them right [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► like what's the best talent in the world to do what they want to do it's right in [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► front of them right and i think that explanation is that for a while Zach had [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► in mind that Facebook was a website and that the mobile version should be a [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► mobile version of that website and you know the area you know the early [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► versions of the Facebook app for iPhone where is the developer was a joke it was [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► Joe Joe Hewitt you know Hewitt and he did great work and he did you know it [TS]

01:04:59 ◼   ► was you know do you do you remember the html5 version you know but yet they were [TS]

01:05:04 ◼   ► native apps that was like the first really impresses application that I saw [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► again not a native application on the web browser built for the iPhone well so [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► London you can definitely say for the sake and Facebook is as soon as the [TS]

01:05:17 ◼   ► iPhone came out they instantly so we need to be on that and they did it you [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► know before the Riva naps and then when there were perhaps but they do their [TS]

01:05:25 ◼   ► initial appt was a lot more like not native you know using web things in a [TS]

01:05:31 ◼   ► web use and stuff like that and I feel like it like a lot of you know as a [TS]

01:05:38 ◼   ► suggestion indication that he is a very good CEO I think Zach had a complete 180 [TS]

01:05:43 ◼   ► and realize you know what [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► native apps matter for mobile performance for latency for just the way [TS]

01:05:50 ◼   ► you know it it just isn't gonna work to to to be one level behind in abstraction [TS]

01:05:57 ◼   ► with all the little nagging things that that entails and it was like so what do [TS]

01:06:04 ◼   ► we do let's hire some great native app developers and designers and I think [TS]

01:06:10 ◼   ► also part of that is that you on the phone mobile in general it makes more [TS]

01:06:19 ◼   ► sense to have not a ton of apps but more separate apps them one app that does [TS]

01:06:26 ◼   ► everything especially for something the size of facebook facebook can do so many [TS]

01:06:31 ◼   ► that you know you do events you check you do [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► status updates you pictures like all these things it's like it was getting is [TS]

01:06:39 ◼   ► getting almost ridiculous like the side menu and that's in the previous one [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► where it's like they're so there's so many different things that you can drill [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► down into its almost like ridiculous to try to hit some of them with with the [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► fingertip right and you know take a look at apple with iTunes right now on the [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► Mac and Windows and there's a large part of that is because they have to maintain [TS]

01:06:58 ◼   ► parity on Mac and Windows but it's a monolithic app and you know it's almost [TS]

01:07:04 ◼   ► at this point it's almost infamous for being overloaded with responsibilities [TS]

01:07:11 ◼   ► and iOS they viewed and as sort of stayed with everything broken apart in [TS]

01:07:17 ◼   ► two separate app stores in music player app and there's a store out for buying [TS]

01:07:23 ◼   ► music [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► and a podcast app for podcasts and you can see you know a lot of people are [TS]

01:07:30 ◼   ► happy with that with the podcast app adjust the fact that the way Apple sees [TS]

01:07:34 ◼   ► it it should be a separate app says a lot you know the dads the way that's the [TS]

01:07:39 ◼   ► way to develop for mobile and I think Facebook has that in mind too and so did [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► you talk to us at all about the fact that it's it's obviously iPhone first [TS]

01:07:48 ◼   ► and iPhone or iPad right and I think it's you know it's just it's the obvious [TS]

01:07:54 ◼   ► that you know it took them this long to build the iPhone version and it's ready [TS]

01:07:59 ◼   ► to ship and so they shipped it and you know no comment on you know whether it [TS]

01:08:05 ◼   ► there's going to be an iPad version or there's going to be an Android version [TS]

01:08:08 ◼   ► and although a I got the feeling you can quote me on it and and that's not a [TS]

01:08:14 ◼   ► quote but I did get the feeling of that his team at least at the moment is an [TS]

01:08:19 ◼   ► Iowa steam that they did you know that it's a relatively small [TS]

01:08:23 ◼   ► you know that if and when there is going to be an Android version of paper that [TS]

01:08:27 ◼   ► its need to expand to do it well and I i wonder if it would even be that team [TS]

01:08:35 ◼   ► right like if if this really is sort of thinking about this in the in the in the [TS]

01:08:40 ◼   ► new anyway that you're suggesting sort of moving away from that this Facebook [TS]

01:08:44 ◼   ► is a web site and now it's it's it's whatever it needs to be on whatever [TS]

01:08:48 ◼   ► device you're using and so you know you could certainly make the argument that [TS]

01:08:52 ◼   ► maybe it should be different for Android entirely then it is even right now for [TS]

01:08:57 ◼   ► with paper with iOS I have i think thats difference screen sizes and different [TS]

01:09:03 ◼   ► metaphor is indifferent you know capabilities you know I wes is is much [TS]

01:09:09 ◼   ► more everybody's always said that suits you know things animate smoother its has [TS]

01:09:15 ◼   ► these transitions and has [TS]

01:09:17 ◼   ► when you want to do GPU and sent tens of things you you have this tremendous [TS]

01:09:24 ◼   ► advantage of only having to target you know two or three GPUs I don't know what [TS]

01:09:32 ◼   ► I don't know how far back Facebook paperworks I don't know if they support [TS]

01:09:35 ◼   ► like before us or what the limit is but even so it's there's only three Jay even [TS]

01:09:39 ◼   ► if they go back all the way to do for us it's only three generations that they [TS]

01:09:43 ◼   ► have to support and it's a very very graphically intensive at so I wonder I [TS]

01:09:48 ◼   ► wonder if Facebook will be sorted the first major service to go like total in [TS]

01:09:55 ◼   ► a totally different direction with their application for Android just because of [TS]

01:09:59 ◼   ► what you're talking about where madison's team is is i would assume all [TS]

01:10:03 ◼   ► iOS right now and they would either have to hire and sort of trained people to in [TS]

01:10:10 ◼   ► terms of what they built for iOS and sort of it even though it's not [TS]

01:10:13 ◼   ► technically be like a quote unquote port it would still sort of the airport right [TS]

01:10:17 ◼   ► it would be like right if they were going to call it paper yeah so interface [TS]

01:10:23 ◼   ► and style I don't think they're gonna do I really wouldn't be surprised if [TS]

01:10:26 ◼   ► there's never I don't know the answer really don't i mean but my my guess is I [TS]

01:10:31 ◼   ► would be surprised if there's never paper for Android but like you just said [TS]

01:10:35 ◼   ► if there's something else [TS]

01:10:37 ◼   ► Facebook something else for Android that is has a different interface and then [TS]

01:10:43 ◼   ► never exist for iOS which by the way they've done that's what Facebook home [TS]

01:10:47 ◼   ► was right right was right it was a hundred only [TS]

01:10:49 ◼   ► yeah I and maybe that's actually a good way of thinking that they've already [TS]

01:10:54 ◼   ► done that they've already done a friend right that doesn't exist on iOS and it's [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► sort of embracing rather than trying to do this [TS]

01:11:03 ◼   ► seen them as two versions of the same idea treat them as different to [TS]

01:11:08 ◼   ► different things which i think is actually closer to the truth [TS]

01:11:12 ◼   ► yeah and don't do that way don't see this the way that Windows and Mac OS 10 [TS]

01:11:18 ◼   ► involved where a company like Adobe more or less had the exact same interface for [TS]

01:11:24 ◼   ► you know Photoshop and InDesign and Illustrator on Windows and Mac you know [TS]

01:11:29 ◼   ► where the only differences were the iOS you know the specific things like that [TS]

01:11:34 ◼   ► menu bars at the top and the Mac and menu is a window on Windows but [TS]

01:11:39 ◼   ► otherwise it you know they shipped at the same time they had the same features [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► they were built from the same code base I don't think that's the way to do iOS [TS]

01:11:48 ◼   ► and Android I really agree I think that the you know to too often we see these [TS]

01:11:54 ◼   ► companies go into it while we built the iOS version is doing great now let's [TS]

01:11:59 ◼   ► make the Android version it's gonna be the same Instagram its exact same thing [TS]

01:12:04 ◼   ► as an example where that makes sense because it does but when you would you [TS]

01:12:12 ◼   ► should go into the mentality was we want to create the best application for this [TS]

01:12:15 ◼   ► specific device rather than the other way around [TS]

01:12:20 ◼   ► yeah and I you know Twitter maybe as an example of doing that wrong where [TS]

01:12:24 ◼   ► they're sort of developing this like single-minded single Twitter interface [TS]

01:12:30 ◼   ► that everywhere right you know I don't though we'll see if that continues that [TS]

01:12:35 ◼   ► was that was that was definitely the marching order for a long time and I [TS]

01:12:41 ◼   ► think that a lot of that was driven by the need for simplicity cross-platform [TS]

01:12:45 ◼   ► simplicity to get users to understand what what they're doing when they look [TS]

01:12:50 ◼   ► at one thing you know it's like oh here's where the treatment is like so I [TS]

01:12:53 ◼   ► know what to do but I would be surprised if that's changing 250 [TS]

01:12:58 ◼   ► so things with paper the thing that fascinates me and it's it's there's two [TS]

01:13:02 ◼   ► sides to it there's one is it a good client for Facebook and that I don't [TS]

01:13:06 ◼   ► know how to judge cuz I'm gonna Facebook users so I honestly don't know how to [TS]

01:13:09 ◼   ► judge but two from a design perspective it is fascinating because it's it is [TS]

01:13:18 ◼   ► almost like a real imagination of what I owe us should be it doesn't feel foreign [TS]

01:13:26 ◼   ► it doesn't feel wake like alien but it's definitely not standard and it's it is [TS]

01:13:34 ◼   ► and it's it is of a piece with Mike madison's previous works and very [TS]

01:13:40 ◼   ► specifically with with the work they did it push pop press the only the only [TS]

01:13:45 ◼   ► example of which we could we we saw publicly was the [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► algor book our choice right which is worth but if you're an interface [TS]

01:13:54 ◼   ► designer it's worth buying that not to read even if no interest in the book [TS]

01:13:59 ◼   ► itself it's worth buying as an example of an alternative way to think about [TS]

01:14:04 ◼   ► touch screen design is it still it still available hope so I don't know I don't [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► know but this you know and I don't know how much you know you never know I mean [TS]

01:14:18 ◼   ► there is a team in his modest is not the only designer but I think the whole team [TS]

01:14:23 ◼   ► is on board with the philosophy and the philosophy is why I think one way to put [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► it is that it that Apple wasn't old enough with iOS right and you go back [TS]

01:14:36 ◼   ► all the way to Steve Jobs is 2007 unveiling of the original iPhone and and [TS]

01:14:44 ◼   ► he spoke at the highest level was introducing in sort of framing how we [TS]

01:14:49 ◼   ► should think about this that it was when he sneaked snuck in the the big about a [TS]

01:14:55 ◼   ► stylist you know that [TS]

01:14:56 ◼   ► 1984 we made this thing called them back and you did all this stuff visually [TS]

01:15:01 ◼   ► using a mouse to guide her on-screen what we gonna do for a pointer here goes [TS]

01:15:09 ◼   ► well the stylist and everybody of course not terrible and everybody laugh because [TS]

01:15:14 ◼   ► stylist a piece of junk you gonna lose it nobody wants that no we're all born [TS]

01:15:19 ◼   ► with a pointer right here and he stuck up his index finger right and that's the [TS]

01:15:22 ◼   ► you know high-level that's the the breakthrough of Iowa State you just use [TS]

01:15:27 ◼   ► your finger and you do things so instead of having a scrollbar that you moved to [TS]

01:15:32 ◼   ► scroll the content you just touch the content and move it and you scroll and [TS]

01:15:36 ◼   ► there's not if you don't have a button you know like and you think back and we [TS]

01:15:39 ◼   ► you know it's easy to sort of forget and you see this evolution over the years of [TS]

01:15:43 ◼   ► the Mac and Windows where we're like we have the wheel or the trackpad or [TS]

01:15:50 ◼   ► something but think back to the original Mac and the original windows before the [TS]

01:15:54 ◼   ► ribbon scroll Wilson license to scroll the content you had to put the cursor on [TS]

01:15:59 ◼   ► the arrow in the scrollbar declared or get on the elevator whatever you want to [TS]

01:16:05 ◼   ► call it and drag it and it was a complete level of abstraction that you [TS]

01:16:12 ◼   ► had to click the button the arrow buttons to scroll it or click the actual [TS]

01:16:15 ◼   ► click and drag the actual will to do it and iOS completely eliminated the entire [TS]

01:16:22 ◼   ► thing where it's all just direct but in other areas it's a lot of the standard [TS]

01:16:29 ◼   ► iOS navigation just think about like to add that i think are very very almost [TS]

01:16:36 ◼   ► canonical if you want to study what it is to be an iOS app mail and like the [TS]

01:16:43 ◼   ► settings out setup is maybe the best example settings is just pure I less [TS]

01:16:48 ◼   ► it's a lot of buttons and even like you go into a level and then how do you go [TS]

01:16:53 ◼   ► back you go to the top left and there's a button and hit the back button and you [TS]

01:16:58 ◼   ► click the tab the back button as though you use your finger to tap the button in [TS]

01:17:02 ◼   ► the same way that you do use a mouse pointer to click a button on an end the [TS]

01:17:09 ◼   ► madness philosophy and and paper really exemplifies this is that you get rid of [TS]

01:17:14 ◼   ► those buttons too and you just open and close things you know you can tap on a [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► thing to open and close it you just squeeze it and it gets smaller and goes [TS]

01:17:24 ◼   ► back to the smaller state and it's not just and it's not just the obvious sort [TS]

01:17:29 ◼   ► of or not what's been around for a while like pinch to zoom in sort of pitch to [TS]

01:17:33 ◼   ► close it is like a simple is sort of drag up in drag down yeah yeah so you [TS]

01:17:38 ◼   ► don't even have to use two fingers it's that's what that's my favorite thing [TS]

01:17:42 ◼   ► about yet where you know I'm looking at it right now and just like the sort of [TS]

01:17:46 ◼   ► bar along the bottom with the content that you scroll through it almost is in [TS]

01:17:52 ◼   ► a way it's like in the shape of your thumb right it's a drawing or some words [TS]

01:17:55 ◼   ► it to to put it [TS]

01:17:57 ◼   ► place it on there and then once you do that you just sort of move up and then [TS]

01:18:01 ◼   ► you're right into it and you can read it the entire way when it's going up [TS]

01:18:04 ◼   ► because it's it's just killing it right up and then to to get away you just push [TS]

01:18:08 ◼   ► it back down it's it's very well done and it's very natural and it is really [TS]

01:18:14 ◼   ► unlike the standard system in a profound way even though it's so simple and part [TS]

01:18:20 ◼   ► of it there's there's a humility towards it where it's not a lot of like [TS]

01:18:24 ◼   ► with bangs stuff that you could i mean I'm not for example I know that Matusz [TS]

01:18:31 ◼   ► worked on when he was at Apple years ago worked on time machine and time machines [TS]

01:18:36 ◼   ► interface is look at look at this this is supposed to be like whoa right with [TS]

01:18:41 ◼   ► the whole windows 8 going into 3d and they're in outer space and it's like it [TS]

01:18:47 ◼   ► is a very ostentatious design and it doesn't matter where you know whether [TS]

01:18:51 ◼   ► you think it's a good design for for a backup system or not it's ostentatious [TS]

01:18:56 ◼   ► write the paper thing is is very humble and my opinion because I think normal [TS]

01:19:01 ◼   ► people they might think hey this is nice but they're not gonna be like wow it [TS]

01:19:06 ◼   ► it's you know and I mean that as a very high compliment that it's it's not [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► trying to show off its all and I think there's tons I know for a fact that [TS]

01:19:15 ◼   ► there's tons and tons of work to get these things because they're not built [TS]

01:19:20 ◼   ► into the system you don't get them for free from Cocoa Touch this these you [TS]

01:19:25 ◼   ► know opening and closing and smooth everything is super smooth all custom [TS]

01:19:31 ◼   ► and it's all super smooth and the big problem with any kind of high-level [TS]

01:19:38 ◼   ► navigate this design is that there's a very few number of gestures available [TS]

01:19:45 ◼   ► and you have to allocate them you have to decide to be very careful about it so [TS]

01:19:49 ◼   ► just think back to the original Mac and I think in hindsight we can probably [TS]

01:19:54 ◼   ► agree that a mistake that they made was that single click in the Finder selects [TS]

01:20:04 ◼   ► an item and double-click opens because double-click is cognitively difficult [TS]

01:20:10 ◼   ► for normal people it is they end and you know and it's led to you know the the [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► best example as people whose parents double click on links in [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► race because they they somehow they they don't understand that some things you [TS]

01:20:27 ◼   ► click on to open in some things you double click open and you kinda have to [TS]

01:20:31 ◼   ► have a deeper understanding of how the computer is working as opposed to how [TS]

01:20:36 ◼   ► the interface is working to know that difference which is why you know it [TS]

01:20:41 ◼   ► makes way more sense the way that I west and almost every modern system works for [TS]

01:20:47 ◼   ► you tapped open and you do like a long tap to select or something else but that [TS]

01:20:53 ◼   ► tapped oh and do you have so few things to do and and you don't want to get into [TS]

01:21:01 ◼   ► a thing where where anything primary involves things like well you can put [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► two fingers on screen and dried up and down while normal people are never gonna [TS]

01:21:10 ◼   ► get that right [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► pinching with two fingers they'll get because it's it is it feels real but [TS]

01:21:18 ◼   ► things like the iOS four finger swipe to switch apps that's a power user will [TS]

01:21:24 ◼   ► feature that it's absolutely fine that Apple made that I think it's fine [TS]

01:21:29 ◼   ► feature I use it especially on the iPad I don't have it turned on the phone but [TS]

01:21:33 ◼   ► on the iPad I use it all the time but I you know it it's I guarantee you 99.5% [TS]

01:21:40 ◼   ► of all iPad users have no idea that it exists and if you told them it exists [TS]

01:21:45 ◼   ► they would forget it by tomorrow so what Facebook had to solve with paper is what [TS]

01:21:52 ◼   ► can you how much can you do with one finger just dragging you've got left [TS]

01:21:57 ◼   ► right and you've got up down and that's it and so you go left right to navigate [TS]

01:22:04 ◼   ► between items in the stream [TS]

01:22:07 ◼   ► and up to open down to close and it's even though it's a little bit more sort [TS]

01:22:16 ◼   ► of interesting how they're doing it because there's also down like it seems [TS]

01:22:21 ◼   ► like one of the issues that they're having which I understand is that people [TS]

01:22:24 ◼   ► don't know at first how to create a post right because that's another swipe down [TS]

01:22:29 ◼   ► from the top and there's no real indication that that's there is through [TS]

01:22:33 ◼   ► the walk-through of course but there's no indication when you're just looking [TS]

01:22:36 ◼   ► at it and that's what you would do great and that in mind I create a new norm I [TS]

01:22:40 ◼   ► guess for that and now it's instead of being the side sort of the hamburger bun [TS]

01:22:44 ◼   ► to the side it's now wiping down to you to it [TS]

01:22:47 ◼   ► yeah and maybe that's a playoff spot where it's not quite fair of me to say [TS]

01:22:52 ◼   ► that it doesn't feel foreign because it is because its non-standard but I guess [TS]

01:22:59 ◼   ► what I see is that I when I look at paper I see a way that the whole system [TS]

01:23:05 ◼   ► could work that way right that in some alternate universe Mike Matusz is that [TS]

01:23:10 ◼   ► still a top ones in charge of iOS four is a a lead developer and that iOS 7 [TS]

01:23:16 ◼   ► works like this across the board and that there's you know for example [TS]

01:23:20 ◼   ► there's no status bar all the time in facebook paper but it's there you just [TS]

01:23:28 ◼   ► pull down at the top a little bit and then you can see it yeah and I know for [TS]

01:23:33 ◼   ► a fact that is you know it's a stupid little thing but I know from talking to [TS]

01:23:38 ◼   ► other designers and people who think about things like this is an awful lot [TS]

01:23:41 ◼   ► of people who think that that's the way I always should work that the status bar [TS]

01:23:45 ◼   ► is clutter and that you know why not just give the whole screen and you know [TS]

01:23:49 ◼   ► show the status when you need it and how do you do it just put down you know what [TS]

01:23:55 ◼   ► else I just realized just playing around with it right now I think they're one of [TS]

01:23:59 ◼   ► the first ones that I can remember actually doing this in a way i think is [TS]

01:24:04 ◼   ► correct which is that when you do so when you do you're on the main screen [TS]

01:24:07 ◼   ► swipe down to get to sort of where you can post where your profile is that back [TS]

01:24:12 ◼   ► you know the back of the sort of cards metaphor ya win that puts the main [TS]

01:24:18 ◼   ► sort of card at the bottom so you can still get back there by tapping on it [TS]

01:24:23 ◼   ► and then it just pops back up right so that's why you never get back yes but it [TS]

01:24:27 ◼   ► is impossible to actually pull up the menu from very you know how in so many [TS]

01:24:33 ◼   ► apps now with iOS 7 they have the poll up menu where you know where their [TS]

01:24:37 ◼   ► flashlights and all those other things [TS]

01:24:39 ◼   ► yeah it is actually impossible to do that at least as far as I can see right [TS]

01:24:44 ◼   ► now to pull up the menu which is great because so many of these apps that are [TS]

01:24:50 ◼   ► trying to be clever with sort of using new UI forget that you know there is [TS]

01:24:55 ◼   ► already a systemwide you I to pull up that that menu right and somehow assume [TS]

01:25:03 ◼   ► you can do this in this setting paper has figured out like if we put this this [TS]

01:25:10 ◼   ► card at the bottom and ask people to go back to it a lot of times they're gonna [TS]

01:25:14 ◼   ► end up pulling up the the settings menu and we don't want them to do that so [TS]

01:25:19 ◼   ► it's disabled and so there is no way to do that which is great because I'm [TS]

01:25:22 ◼   ► always afraid now whenever I'm touching something at the bottom of the screen [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► that I'm going to pull up that many oh yeah I know exactly what you mean I [TS]

01:25:31 ◼   ► think it's tricky to win the keyboard is visible and it feels I could be wrong it [TS]

01:25:38 ◼   ► could just be that I've gotten better at it but I'm running the Iowa 7.1 betas on [TS]

01:25:42 ◼   ► my phone and it feels as though they've in the last batter to they've gotten [TS]

01:25:48 ◼   ► better at [TS]

01:25:50 ◼   ► system wide when you when you want to bring up to call the control center [TS]

01:25:56 ◼   ► you're talking about it [TS]

01:25:58 ◼   ► previously when the keyboard was up every time I tried it I get a space I [TS]

01:26:03 ◼   ► just hit the key and they've gotten something they figured out some way of [TS]

01:26:08 ◼   ► doing it now wernicke boards visible you can bring that up too tricky thing and I [TS]

01:26:12 ◼   ► agree that yeah I know exactly where talk about papers like you more or less [TS]

01:26:16 ◼   ► pushed the whole regular interface down regular interface training you were [TS]

01:26:20 ◼   ► browsing through the content in your feed you push that down to get a sort of [TS]

01:26:28 ◼   ► interface and it's like a transparent thing with your Facebook search it has [TS]

01:26:35 ◼   ► your profile as create a poster is at its sections so another thing that they [TS]

01:26:41 ◼   ► did that I think and it speaks to the thought that went into it it's like the [TS]

01:26:46 ◼   ► Einstein quote everything should be as simple as possible but not more so than [TS]

01:26:52 ◼   ► a decade I've looked it up over the years and maybe that's you know there's [TS]

01:26:56 ◼   ► a lot of could be one of those things are in an even say it but that's the way [TS]

01:26:59 ◼   ► I know that the adage that you can you know what does it mean as simple as [TS]

01:27:06 ◼   ► possible but not more so well it's a little cute but it it means don't take [TS]

01:27:10 ◼   ► an idea too far and as an example it's ok so they've gotten rid of a lot of [TS]

01:27:15 ◼   ► buttons in the navigation that you don't go back you just push it down and it [TS]

01:27:20 ◼   ► closes but they don't have any kind of we're not gonna have any buttons at all [TS]

01:27:25 ◼   ► and we're going to figure out a way to do this with no buns where it makes [TS]

01:27:28 ◼   ► sense to just have a button they have a bun like that like when you write a post [TS]

01:27:32 ◼   ► you just start typing and then there's a button that says post and it's you know [TS]

01:27:36 ◼   ► super obvious there's no cutesy way of somehow you know posting without [TS]

01:27:42 ◼   ► actually having a post but yeah yeah I think that's right they have they have [TS]

01:27:48 ◼   ► the minimal amount of buttons you would need to do what you want to do [TS]

01:27:53 ◼   ► yeah they have a super cool thing and when you go into the settings that [TS]

01:28:00 ◼   ► you know and it uses of once you're in the settings for Facebook paper is a [TS]

01:28:05 ◼   ► very standard iOS metaphor where there's a list and you tap an item in it you [TS]

01:28:10 ◼   ► know those left to right and navigation stack you know goes the same way that I [TS]

01:28:15 ◼   ► wait you're familiar with and I think it's exactly right words they're trying [TS]

01:28:20 ◼   ► to get real clever and do something original there they do it but they do a [TS]

01:28:22 ◼   ► really cool thing with the animation in the at the top of the screen where there [TS]

01:28:28 ◼   ► is actually a back button when you're in the settings but if you swipe it it's [TS]

01:28:32 ◼   ► like the back button thing unlike Iowa seven standard navigation it doesn't [TS]

01:28:36 ◼   ► just paid from one to another [TS]

01:28:38 ◼   ► it like shoots lozeau rubberband pushed it yeah really really and honestly it's [TS]

01:28:45 ◼   ► better than I wish that that was Iowa seven standard yet everything sort of [TS]

01:28:50 ◼   ► cascades in yeah yeah exactly it's like a cascade animation like almost like a [TS]

01:28:57 ◼   ► wave I don't know how you call it but it's it's making a board here but it's [TS]

01:29:04 ◼   ► very physically to succeed physical physical I guess it's just physical but [TS]

01:29:10 ◼   ► it's it's like physics as theirs and I again that's a little thing and it is [TS]

01:29:16 ◼   ► not that is not a standard animation from iOS that is something that they [TS]

01:29:21 ◼   ► worked on themselves [TS]

01:29:23 ◼   ► there's an awful lot of so did you get a sense from him did he talk at all are [TS]

01:29:27 ◼   ► they going to open source any of the stuff for other sort of iOS developers [TS]

01:29:32 ◼   ► to use you know I didn't ask I don't know I don't think so that would be [TS]

01:29:37 ◼   ► great but yeah I don't think so although they did you know they have the tools [TS]

01:29:41 ◼   ► the the metal layer on top of course compositor that they're using [TS]

01:29:46 ◼   ► composer it's right or origami I forget if its courts compositor composer [TS]

01:29:52 ◼   ► whichever one it is I always get strong so it's whatever composer composer [TS]

01:29:56 ◼   ► I think the telling thing about that that's interesting [TS]

01:29:56 ◼   ► I think the telling thing about that that's interesting [TS]

01:30:00 ◼   ► as it does you know someone who works in and try to think about design and stuff [TS]

01:30:04 ◼   ► is that it matters has been using Quartz Composer for a long time for his mark [TS]

01:30:12 ◼   ► ups and stuff and and I spoke about this before but like he showed me work with [TS]

01:30:17 ◼   ► crisp up press for it came out and he was showing me the development version [TS]

01:30:23 ◼   ► of it where they they had like in the beta versions are the in house versions [TS]

01:30:28 ◼   ► there was an extra layer of settings where there were sliders for all the [TS]

01:30:34 ◼   ► variables in the physics engine and so instead of like a programmer typing into [TS]

01:30:45 ◼   ► Xcode that gravity for bringing down a picture to close it is at point seven [TS]

01:30:54 ◼   ► eight and then you compile and build and install based on your phone you play [TS]

01:30:58 ◼   ► around with it and and Mike would say you know what [TS]

01:31:01 ◼   ► try like pointed five and then compile it and build it he had sliders for all [TS]

01:31:07 ◼   ► of those things and he could sit there and you know drag these little sliders [TS]

01:31:12 ◼   ► and adjust things and make you know make pictures really and you know i i got to [TS]

01:31:17 ◼   ► play with it when the with those settings enable make things like photos [TS]

01:31:21 ◼   ► feel heavier or lighter and it was very very you know it was very tactile where [TS]

01:31:27 ◼   ► it really did feel like well thats heavier well thats lighter and I think [TS]

01:31:33 ◼   ► the idea is that you can't really design with this modern sense of Physics driven [TS]

01:31:39 ◼   ► interaction [TS]

01:31:40 ◼   ► without actually having design tools that are not just animated but you know [TS]

01:31:47 ◼   ► that that you can tweak all sorts of variables and I think that they're going [TS]

01:31:51 ◼   ► with origami when you're not you cannot you can't create things like this in [TS]

01:31:55 ◼   ► Photoshop and just have here's the one here's the start frame here's the end [TS]

01:32:00 ◼   ► frame and in between it and you know yeah and it's it's cuz I like you you're [TS]

01:32:06 ◼   ► forcing your brain disorder shift between two different processes right [TS]

01:32:11 ◼   ► Blake you're going from a very sort of numbers driven analytical process by [TS]

01:32:18 ◼   ► typing in like pointed 7 like you're doing math vs designing you know I think [TS]

01:32:24 ◼   ► its equivalent of sculpture where you're working you know it's like having [TS]

01:32:28 ◼   ► claimed your hands and being able to hold it with your hands as opposed to [TS]

01:32:33 ◼   ► defining you know mathematically the shape of this culture what do you think [TS]

01:32:40 ◼   ► about the the photo element where your tilting too you know sort of look at the [TS]

01:32:46 ◼   ► panoramic mode they call it I think I don't know if this is public or 90 [TS]

01:32:49 ◼   ► internally they call it can turns the can turn the fact that's good I think [TS]

01:32:56 ◼   ► it's brilliant I think it is really really [TS]

01:33:01 ◼   ► I think it's it works it is so super effective and I think you know it's [TS]

01:33:07 ◼   ► always say like you you know first is the original the second is a rip off and [TS]

01:33:13 ◼   ► the third it's a standard so somebody's gonna rip it off and then everybody's [TS]

01:33:18 ◼   ► gonna say hey they ripped off the counters effect from facebook paper and [TS]

01:33:21 ◼   ► then two or three other apps gonna come out that use it and it's everybody's you [TS]

01:33:26 ◼   ► know we should always remember that they did at first but it's i think it's gonna [TS]

01:33:29 ◼   ► become a standard so the ideas if you haven't if your other you listen you [TS]

01:33:33 ◼   ► haven't seen paper used it to open a photo they open it so that it always [TS]

01:33:39 ◼   ► fills the screen and so if it's like a plan and it's even most knows what you [TS]

01:33:44 ◼   ► think of a panoramic photo if you take a panoramic photos with your iPhone which [TS]

01:33:48 ◼   ► way wider than it is talk that opens at full height on your phone and then to [TS]

01:33:53 ◼   ► see the rest of it you just hold your phone in front of you and you can either [TS]

01:33:57 ◼   ► twist it or you can actually like rotate your body and photos [TS]

01:34:05 ◼   ► panda long as you move its Brian I think it works so well and it's just like it [TS]

01:34:12 ◼   ► basically turns the phone screen is a Windows sort of into a picture yes yes [TS]

01:34:20 ◼   ► and it is you know so we you know we sit at our desks and we have things like 27 [TS]

01:34:29 ◼   ► inch iMac sir [TS]

01:34:31 ◼   ► 21 inch iMacs or cinema displays or even on a Macbook you know who we have retina [TS]

01:34:39 ◼   ► displays on MacBook Pros now with incredible pixel counts and compared to [TS]

01:34:43 ◼   ► a phone a big-screen I think this can turn things for how do you view [TS]

01:34:48 ◼   ► something that you really do want big like a photo how do you view it on a [TS]

01:34:53 ◼   ► little four-inch screen I think it's it's the best solution anybody's come up [TS]

01:34:57 ◼   ► with it [TS]

01:34:59 ◼   ► here's one thing and so the name they they said that they started with the Ken [TS]

01:35:05 ◼   ► Burns effect where they would open the photo at that size and then it is [TS]

01:35:09 ◼   ► automatically move yeah and they said the problem was that they realized was a [TS]

01:35:17 ◼   ► lot of times you know the most interesting part of the photo maybe it [TS]

01:35:20 ◼   ► was at the beginning it's at the left edge and then it already runs past like [TS]

01:35:23 ◼   ► if you want to go back and you have to wait for the animation or you have to [TS]

01:35:28 ◼   ► wipe it right and then the main problem so this is this is what shows to me [TS]

01:35:34 ◼   ► which is which i think is pretty genius which is that normally so even right now [TS]

01:35:38 ◼   ► if you open up a panoramic picture if you if you open it on your phone [TS]

01:35:43 ◼   ► sort of in landscape mode or horizontal mode it will it will be so small and so [TS]

01:35:50 ◼   ► you'll want to do man right but to see them the rest of the photo you have to [TS]

01:35:54 ◼   ► take your thumb and like sort of push and so that's like putting your thumb in [TS]

01:35:57 ◼   ► between which are trying to look at where is this totally removes it cause [TS]

01:36:01 ◼   ► you never have to use your thumb well exactly so you're not covering the photo [TS]

01:36:06 ◼   ► with your fat ugly and it just gets back to what I said before they've already [TS]

01:36:11 ◼   ► assigned swiping left and right to going to the next [TS]

01:36:15 ◼   ► yes that's right to navigation and it does that in summing right now are [TS]

01:36:19 ◼   ► trying to do you know to get to the other party so just because that has [TS]

01:36:23 ◼   ► previously been the norm right now they're just swiping to you know the [TS]

01:36:26 ◼   ► next story in being like right different and if it's a to me it's just a genius [TS]

01:36:32 ◼   ► and it's you know [TS]

01:36:34 ◼   ► it's so easy to overlook how much thought went into that you know and [TS]

01:36:37 ◼   ► again it's it would be the wrong solution but it you know the things that [TS]

01:36:43 ◼   ► would be easier to think of you know and that it's simple little mind like mine [TS]

01:36:46 ◼   ► would think would be well put two fingers on the screen and swipe left [TS]

01:36:49 ◼   ► right to pan the photo and one finger is still just Godin extra forward but [TS]

01:36:54 ◼   ► people don't think like that two fingers on screen to go to do it is terrible [TS]

01:36:59 ◼   ► you know this you know using why don't we use the accelerometer and gyroscope [TS]

01:37:04 ◼   ► it's really great idea I really can then they have you know whether their little [TS]

01:37:12 ◼   ► things like the autoplay of the videos like normal people hate that and I'm one [TS]

01:37:15 ◼   ► of those people who hate that but it's like win when you are in sort of full [TS]

01:37:20 ◼   ► mode so it doesn't auto play them when you're in for the browsing mode where [TS]

01:37:24 ◼   ► you can you know the stories are at the bottom of the screen in your sleeping [TS]

01:37:27 ◼   ► through them but once you bring it up to full screen it does auto play it because [TS]

01:37:31 ◼   ► it's like that's the content and you want to see it and you're just removing [TS]

01:37:34 ◼   ► sort of a barrier to entry to see that yet [TS]

01:37:37 ◼   ► yeah exactly really really thoughtful stuff and you know I think [TS]

01:37:45 ◼   ► you know rightly or wrongly a lot of the discussion has been more about it as [TS]

01:37:49 ◼   ► Hayes as an alternative way to look at Facebook but I think that you know [TS]

01:37:52 ◼   ► interface wise it is fascinating it is you know you can teach a whole course of [TS]

01:37:57 ◼   ► interface design based on the novel tees that they've come up within the app so I [TS]

01:38:03 ◼   ► guess I guess the biggest complaints I would have as a as someone who does [TS]

01:38:07 ◼   ► occasionally use Facebook I mean I'm not I certainly don't use it as much as much [TS]

01:38:11 ◼   ► of the world does but the difference between the regular sort of standard [TS]

01:38:17 ◼   ► Facebook app and even the website and this is that for may not even be true [TS]

01:38:23 ◼   ► but there's something about it to me that makes it feel like there is much [TS]

01:38:26 ◼   ► less content so it's much more shallow and maybe that's on purpose maybe it's [TS]

01:38:31 ◼   ► sort of making Facebook less overwhelming because maybe it is too [TS]

01:38:34 ◼   ► overwhelming now because everyone has sort of a thousand friends on it even [TS]

01:38:37 ◼   ► though you're probably not really friends with thousand people and so [TS]

01:38:41 ◼   ► maybe they're doing some smart things and maybe I just haven't played around [TS]

01:38:44 ◼   ► with it enough to know like that they're serving up really what is the best of of [TS]

01:38:48 ◼   ► the content that I should see but I do get the sense that there's just like [TS]

01:38:52 ◼   ► much less content and maybe it's because the cards are sort of at the bottom and [TS]

01:38:58 ◼   ► they're they're sort of you know you can get you get basically to a little bit [TS]

01:39:01 ◼   ► more into one sort of screen and so it takes quite a bit of swiping to get [TS]

01:39:06 ◼   ► through to what you used to be able to get through in less sweeping up and down [TS]

01:39:12 ◼   ► yeah I don't think it's not a good interface more or less it's probably not [TS]

01:39:16 ◼   ► a good interface for going through a ton of stuff yeah right because you have to [TS]

01:39:21 ◼   ► go left right and their minimum size is sort of a thumb now so [TS]

01:39:25 ◼   ► you can't just scroll through tightest off its not I guess it's you know I [TS]

01:39:31 ◼   ► don't know I i think thats I don't think it's ever going to replace the regular [TS]

01:39:35 ◼   ► Facebook interface I don't think it could but I think it's an interesting [TS]

01:39:38 ◼   ► alternative for some people and maybe so that some people people who are turned [TS]

01:39:43 ◼   ► off by the existing regular Facebook interface and what it promotes in terms [TS]

01:39:50 ◼   ► of you know behavior and how many people you friend etc it's a way for more [TS]

01:39:57 ◼   ► people to want to use Facebook I think I'm probably but I don't think I really [TS]

01:40:03 ◼   ► do and it's almost like I just don't want to it's like i don't think it's [TS]

01:40:07 ◼   ► stupid to me to just say I want to stick to this you know it's too arbitrary for [TS]

01:40:13 ◼   ► me to say you know what I want I am I going to sign up for just because I want [TS]

01:40:16 ◼   ► to be able to always say I never signed up for Facebook but I think my idea is [TS]

01:40:21 ◼   ► sign up i dont wanna you are still on his facebook anywhere else [TS]

01:40:25 ◼   ► only deal might the only way I'll use Facebook is through paper I'm not I [TS]

01:40:28 ◼   ► don't ever I can't have actually tried you can't create an account using paper [TS]

01:40:33 ◼   ► so I would have to go but then after I do that I'm never going to never going [TS]

01:40:41 ◼   ► to use anywhere else and said well it will you start where you start coughing [TS]

01:40:44 ◼   ► in with Facebook them will use that aspect of it too I imagine that must be [TS]

01:40:47 ◼   ► a pain for you know because I don't know that there's anything I've ever wanted [TS]

01:40:51 ◼   ► to use that only offers Facebook there are I feel like that's less of an issue [TS]

01:40:56 ◼   ► now like a year ago or two years ago that was an issue there would be like i [TS]

01:41:00 ◼   ► remember i was you know sort of looking at her or sort of testing out many [TS]

01:41:05 ◼   ► different apps that would have facebook only and that was the number one [TS]

01:41:08 ◼   ► complaint of course yeah you know at least email that doesn't seem to be an [TS]

01:41:12 ◼   ► issue anymore we actually did a lot i mean it's it's not really wasn't [TS]

01:41:17 ◼   ► scientific but at four Vesper and for the eventual sinking thing that we're [TS]

01:41:24 ◼   ► working on [TS]

01:41:25 ◼   ► we thought about what should we have our own login system or should we use [TS]

01:41:28 ◼   ► Twitter should we use Facebook as we do both and there's a lot of it solves a [TS]

01:41:33 ◼   ► lot of problems using existing identity like that but we did is it is asked like [TS]

01:41:39 ◼   ► real people are wives and friends and people who want to developers and very [TS]

01:41:45 ◼   ► very quickly got a lot of you know came very very clear that normal people don't [TS]

01:41:51 ◼   ► like using that and it's because they don't trust that whatever out there [TS]

01:41:55 ◼   ► often is gonna post to their to their board or to their Twitter and they just [TS]

01:42:00 ◼   ► don't like it and they don't want and they don't want Facebook or Twitter [TS]

01:42:03 ◼   ► knowing what other apps that use they just they just don't you know normal [TS]

01:42:07 ◼   ► people not like nerds not privacy experts just normal people have a sense [TS]

01:42:14 ◼   ► just a common sense like aversion to letting these big companies know [TS]

01:42:21 ◼   ► everything they do and they don't like it they really don't and that they also [TS]

01:42:25 ◼   ► know intuitively that if your ideas just your email address that nobody knows you [TS]

01:42:30 ◼   ► know you know that right the email provider isn't right care about right [TS]

01:42:35 ◼   ► that they're not seeing can't that mean they can't even really it's just the way [TS]

01:42:40 ◼   ► that they can get access to your email address isn't really a system it's just [TS]

01:42:44 ◼   ► a unique strengths just by the way that you know domain names work that there's [TS]

01:42:49 ◼   ► one user name at domain that can exist and it's just a unique identifier not a [TS]

01:42:54 ◼   ► unique identity and you know and it's CNN that gets down to do do you know do [TS]

01:43:02 ◼   ► it as an option and then it's you know it's a question of how do you make [TS]

01:43:05 ◼   ► people choose but I i dont know and I and it seems to me the trend I've been [TS]

01:43:10 ◼   ► looking at it thinking about it for a best-before wide seems to me like more [TS]

01:43:15 ◼   ► services going forward are only offering things like Facebook and Twitter off as [TS]

01:43:20 ◼   ► an option not as the right way [TS]

01:43:23 ◼   ► well yeah I guess the obvious upside is one button and you're done right rather [TS]

01:43:29 ◼   ► than typing in facebook is the first our Facebook paper is that really the first [TS]

01:43:34 ◼   ► time that I've needed a Facebook account to use it and it's because it actually [TS]

01:43:37 ◼   ► you know very specifically I mean to the third sponsor there's another angle to [TS]

01:43:45 ◼   ► Facebook paper we can talk about which is the shortest sections the content [TS]

01:43:49 ◼   ► sections but our third sponsor is our good friends at fracture fracture is the [TS]

01:43:58 ◼   ► photo printing service they print your photo directly onto a piece of glass you [TS]

01:44:06 ◼   ► have to see it to believe it but it really is a very different visual effect [TS]

01:44:10 ◼   ► that piece of paper behind glass and frame two piece of glass with the paper [TS]

01:44:15 ◼   ► printed on it it's almost like if you're old enough to remember when people used [TS]

01:44:18 ◼   ► to shoot slides it's like having a piece of glass that the slide of your photo [TS]

01:44:23 ◼   ► and there's a certain vibrancy to it and it's also it's a lot like with with the [TS]

01:44:30 ◼   ► iPhone and stuff where it's just closer to the surface of the glass and it's [TS]

01:44:33 ◼   ► just a great effect they come in all sorts of sizes from very small to very [TS]

01:44:39 ◼   ► big and they ship it in these ingenious containers where it's if you want to [TS]

01:44:45 ◼   ► hang on a wall you can hang on the wall [TS]

01:44:47 ◼   ► you want to put it on your desk you can put it on your desk it's like a frame [TS]

01:44:50 ◼   ► and a desk stan on one really have to see it to believe it makes a great gift [TS]

01:44:58 ◼   ► for the Wii my wife and I made a bunch of these four people for Christmas [TS]

01:45:04 ◼   ► in the family and its huge hit also raises soon as people see it they can [TS]

01:45:09 ◼   ► see there's something different about it and they're like how did you do this [TS]

01:45:12 ◼   ► where did you get this [TS]

01:45:13 ◼   ► people love him and I have coupon code you get 10% off any order that coupon [TS]

01:45:23 ◼   ► code is the talk show love that because it's to meet the ones used at the end [TS]

01:45:29 ◼   ► there they're the ones who actually listen to the show where to go to find [TS]

01:45:33 ◼   ► out more [TS]

01:45:34 ◼   ► their website is fracture mean dot com and I believe you can also just go to [TS]

01:45:40 ◼   ► fracture done typing in right now you can go to fracture . me or fracture [TS]

01:45:48 ◼   ► me.com learn more [TS]

01:45:51 ◼   ► they have a great video you get to see it and it kind of shows off just how [TS]

01:45:55 ◼   ► different it is see the sizes and prices are prices and get started and remember [TS]

01:46:00 ◼   ► that code the talk show and you'll save 10% so go check them out to great [TS]

01:46:05 ◼   ► service so here's the other thing with Facebook paper its us-only not just [TS]

01:46:10 ◼   ► iphoneonly jus only and and the reason for that is because of the the content [TS]

01:46:15 ◼   ► sections they have where it's not just your regular Facebook feed [TS]

01:46:19 ◼   ► they have sections for things like tack and sports and news I think cities and [TS]

01:46:28 ◼   ► they're not scraping those its not just like they're scraping RSS feeds and [TS]

01:46:35 ◼   ► showing whatever they want they've got partnerships with content providers and [TS]

01:46:40 ◼   ► I more or less I think that's why it's us-only for now because [TS]

01:46:44 ◼   ► it's like you know you go there and I know a lot of people have compared [TS]

01:46:50 ◼   ► Facebook paper to Flipboard but I don't you think that their dad direct [TS]

01:46:54 ◼   ► competitor I think it's because some of the animations are a little similar that [TS]

01:46:58 ◼   ► people think that yeah and I mean that's sort of what I was getting at the very [TS]

01:47:03 ◼   ► beginning where it almost feels like this this is the part to me that feels [TS]

01:47:08 ◼   ► sort of like a response to Twitter it's because twitter is a place you go to get [TS]

01:47:11 ◼   ► news right now writes like where a lot of people actually find links for the [TS]

01:47:16 ◼   ► first time find links about News breakingNews happening in facebook now [TS]

01:47:19 ◼   ► with this with these sections are as you said sort of making partnerships with [TS]

01:47:24 ◼   ► the actual news organizations to make this actual newsreader well I didn't [TS]

01:47:29 ◼   ► think about that as a response to Twitter but maybe you're right though [TS]

01:47:32 ◼   ► that it kind of is in terms of that you go to this app for news but that you're [TS]

01:47:36 ◼   ► not expecting it to come from your follower your friends [TS]

01:47:42 ◼   ► it's about this sort of yeah cultivation that's a that's a good point because [TS]

01:47:49 ◼   ► it's more along the lines of like Twitter if you only followed the actual [TS]

01:47:53 ◼   ► news sources right rather than rather than your friends he felt the account of [TS]

01:47:57 ◼   ► New York Times and Washington Post and and whoever else if you use Twitter that [TS]

01:48:01 ◼   ► way which some people do I think use or at least have you know our users of [TS]

01:48:05 ◼   ► course have separate sort of Twitter screens set up with just sorta breaking [TS]

01:48:10 ◼   ► news alerts on on different items [TS]

01:48:12 ◼   ► yeah [TS]

01:48:14 ◼   ► I don't know you know and I do I do something where I just don't know [TS]

01:48:18 ◼   ► whether I'm not a Facebook user I don't know how much sense that makes to [TS]

01:48:22 ◼   ► integrate these two things you know it's i cant i feel like i cant judges yea or [TS]

01:48:28 ◼   ► nay [TS]

01:48:29 ◼   ► what do you think here you you say you're using on your phone are you using [TS]

01:48:33 ◼   ► the you know it's it's interesting I am using it and I as i said i have have [TS]

01:48:40 ◼   ► replaced its I've replaced the Facebook out at the regular appt with with paper [TS]

01:48:45 ◼   ► and its greats as for other reasons we just have talked about an elaborated on [TS]

01:48:51 ◼   ► but I'm not really using the the certain news sections I don't know why it does [TS]

01:48:57 ◼   ► feel a little bit foreign to me because I I am sort of thinking about this is a [TS]

01:49:01 ◼   ► facebook replacement even though I know that's not you know sort of the only [TS]

01:49:05 ◼   ► mentality you're supposed to be going into this thinking about and you are [TS]

01:49:07 ◼   ► supposed to be sort of focused on these different sections were you can read [TS]

01:49:11 ◼   ► about news but I don't know I just don't use it that way and I'm never compelled [TS]

01:49:16 ◼   ► to sort of open up paper to be able to get to the latest Wall Street Journal [TS]

01:49:21 ◼   ► story and I don't know if that's because I'm heavy Twitter user and I still like [TS]

01:49:26 ◼   ► I will have already seen it on Twitter I guess maybe that's what it comes down to [TS]

01:49:30 ◼   ► the fact that I use Twitter [TS]

01:49:32 ◼   ► you know [TS]

01:49:33 ◼   ► must be 10 to 20 x more times a day that i use facebook and so I'm already [TS]

01:49:39 ◼   ► getting my news from from Twitter and so I am just not in the raid sort of mode [TS]

01:49:46 ◼   ► to go into this paper apps assertive read about things right now I don't know [TS]

01:49:50 ◼   ► maybe I'm different maybe you know 1.2 billion people who use Facebook so you [TS]

01:49:56 ◼   ► know it might be an interesting way to just wrap up the show and is is sort of [TS]

01:50:01 ◼   ► thought about before but now you've got me thinking about Twitter vs Facebook [TS]

01:50:06 ◼   ► overall and and in it you know they're not the same thing but there clearly are [TS]

01:50:12 ◼   ► rivals and Facebook clearly has way more people and yes it's like 11 points to [TS]

01:50:22 ◼   ► something billion to about two hundred and some millions and the somebody [TS]

01:50:26 ◼   ► somebody pointed out the other day they planted I saw it on Twitter that [TS]

01:50:30 ◼   ► Facebook like last quarter grew by a third even though there are bigger group [TS]

01:50:35 ◼   ► by a faster percentage than Twitter I saw that I think there was Dustin Curtis [TS]

01:50:39 ◼   ► Yeah Yeah right [TS]

01:50:42 ◼   ► lie you know you can't watch TV without seeing hashtags on the screen right and [TS]

01:50:52 ◼   ► the hashtags are clearly I mean you can use of Instagram but when people do but [TS]

01:50:59 ◼   ► clearly it's about tweets yes and you know there is no Facebook equivalent to [TS]

01:51:05 ◼   ► that that you know just watching anything stupid show or sports or the [TS]

01:51:10 ◼   ► Super Bowl or anything [TS]

01:51:12 ◼   ► there's hashtags on-screen commercials have hash tags right and it's all a [TS]

01:51:16 ◼   ► Twitter and so Facebook has tried to do this you know they've they've they've [TS]

01:51:21 ◼   ► integrated hashtags as a feature now you know sort of copying the notion it still [TS]

01:51:26 ◼   ► doesn't seem like it's taken off at all certainly not in the fields of anyone [TS]

01:51:29 ◼   ► that I'm friends with organic follow on Facebook and I think that's what we're [TS]

01:51:35 ◼   ► sort of we were talking about earlier where Facebook is sort of talking to [TS]

01:51:38 ◼   ► celebrities and influencers about using facebook during the Super Bowl [TS]

01:51:42 ◼   ► and it's just I don't know it's meets it seems very unnatural it's it's I don't [TS]

01:51:46 ◼   ► think it's going to be used that way [TS]

01:51:48 ◼   ► Facebook is what it is and and Twitter is what it is and it's it's especially [TS]

01:51:51 ◼   ► hard to change something that 1.2 billion people are already using for a [TS]

01:51:56 ◼   ► reason and that reason is not to talk about the Super Bowl or at least not to [TS]

01:52:01 ◼   ► sort of talked about in real time with the same sort of speed that people do on [TS]

01:52:07 ◼   ► Twitter I don't know I'm not so sure that that's like a great idea for them [TS]

01:52:11 ◼   ► to try to squeeze these things into to this end for me what this what this [TS]

01:52:16 ◼   ► boils down to is both of these companies are not public companies Twitter of [TS]

01:52:19 ◼   ► course just went public in a few months ago and so what this all boils down to [TS]

01:52:27 ◼   ► especially with regard to television is trying to get advertisers on board and [TS]

01:52:31 ◼   ► trying to monetize this and so you can make the argument that while I think [TS]

01:52:35 ◼   ► through Twitter had the first earnings and they beat the earnings rest of [TS]

01:52:39 ◼   ► estimates but their user numbers were sort of the cause for concern there but [TS]

01:52:44 ◼   ► that's sort of also points to the fact that I think Twitter actually has and [TS]

01:52:48 ◼   ► you can make a case will be easier to monetize is because it's sort of this [TS]

01:52:54 ◼   ► site guys that people use during all of these major events like whether it's the [TS]

01:52:59 ◼   ► Super Bowl whether it's now the Olympics and there's like a very direct you know [TS]

01:53:03 ◼   ► sort of advertising nut to crack I don't think they have cracked it yet but I [TS]

01:53:08 ◼   ► think that there is a way to do that much so much more so than with Facebook [TS]

01:53:12 ◼   ► even though Facebook has so many more users and I had drained strained analogy [TS]

01:53:17 ◼   ► and it's not gonna whole lot of water but it's a little bit like iOS to [TS]

01:53:20 ◼   ► Android where Android has more people but iOS is easier to monetize you know [TS]

01:53:26 ◼   ► that it's that yeah yeah yeah I think that it's that works and you know and [TS]

01:53:31 ◼   ► the other thing I see on TV I see sports well I you know what news too I don't [TS]

01:53:35 ◼   ► watch [TS]

01:53:36 ◼   ► I was very little TV news but I do watch sports and you know it [TS]

01:53:42 ◼   ► ubiquitous almost that you know the commentators they'll they'll put their [TS]

01:53:46 ◼   ► twitter names up right now I see it when I actually sports sports is like the [TS]

01:53:51 ◼   ► greatest example of that it's all over town sports center there are every [TS]

01:53:54 ◼   ► single person has their Twitter handle right there is no Facebook equivalent of [TS]

01:53:58 ◼   ► the right and you know when I do I should you know what I was trying to [TS]

01:54:01 ◼   ► think about how do I know this about TV news I know how I know what I know cuz i [TS]

01:54:05 ◼   ► watch The Daily Show and The Daily Show chose me the clips I need to see of we [TS]

01:54:09 ◼   ► know Fox and CNN and MSNBC and they do it too when a show you the clips of you [TS]

01:54:15 ◼   ► know whatever they're making fun of on The Daily Show on on these news channels [TS]

01:54:18 ◼   ► everybody gets introduced with their name and then underneath it at you know [TS]

01:54:23 ◼   ► whatever their Twitter handle is it if I were to Twitter if I'm dich Kuss Kustom [TS]

01:54:31 ◼   ► oh I I'm very happy about that because they are getting free advertising but [TS]

01:54:37 ◼   ► it's not just it's not just advertising know it it it's like it's a way of [TS]

01:54:44 ◼   ► entering the culture culture mindshare right its cultural mindshare you know [TS]

01:54:51 ◼   ► it's it's like being coca-cola you know that it's just huge that you know and [TS]

01:54:59 ◼   ► that people know this you know that you go there and it just you go on TV and [TS]

01:55:03 ◼   ► it'll say MCN at side and you know what that means right you know you go on and [TS]

01:55:08 ◼   ► it just says at Paris lemon under your name on TV and people know that you know [TS]

01:55:13 ◼   ► if they wanna see you on Twitter though you know just search for that name on [TS]

01:55:16 ◼   ► Twitter it's it's really and that's that's interesting when you when you [TS]

01:55:21 ◼   ► think about it compared to Facebook where Facebook you know for a long time [TS]

01:55:24 ◼   ► their strength was this real names right like everyone was going to be their [TS]

01:55:29 ◼   ► actual selves on this service [TS]

01:55:31 ◼   ► the problem was like in the beginning [TS]

01:55:34 ◼   ► know if you even knows it's not being a Facebook user but they used to not even [TS]

01:55:38 ◼   ► have like an actual like / username no I didn't know that I didn't know that [TS]

01:55:43 ◼   ► it was a string of numbers like I like 16 numbers and sort of crazy now they [TS]

01:55:49 ◼   ► have of course manatee URLs but it's still it's still that that hasn't [TS]

01:55:54 ◼   ► translated though like I actually have / Paris lemon on Facebook and you can get [TS]

01:55:58 ◼   ► to me that way but like what would I put on it with someone put on television [TS]

01:56:02 ◼   ► screen if like you were doing that man is it just / could you do that no one [TS]

01:56:07 ◼   ► would know what that is right it it is kind of a lack of a better word gross to [TS]

01:56:15 ◼   ► me like as somebody who's been a long time Mac user and always objected to [TS]

01:56:19 ◼   ► filename extensions in general not just three-letter ones but just the whole [TS]

01:56:22 ◼   ► idea because I like we had a more elegant system in the eighties and [TS]

01:56:27 ◼   ► nineties on the Mac we didn't need file extensions period the name of the file [TS]

01:56:31 ◼   ► was just a name with upper and lower case letters and spaces just put a space [TS]

01:56:36 ◼   ► in the name you know like things in the real world and all the other computer [TS]

01:56:41 ◼   ► systems in a UNIX of course of course a loud spaces but you know worst idea in [TS]

01:56:47 ◼   ► the world like backslash escape them you know the command line and see me the you [TS]

01:56:54 ◼   ► know using a punctuation character like that and see me with hashtags like to me [TS]

01:56:58 ◼   ► has takes our gross design wise but I do have to admit as they've gone on to [TS]

01:57:05 ◼   ► become part of the culture and there's no other way to do it like to me like [TS]

01:57:11 ◼   ► tags [TS]

01:57:12 ◼   ► you know I can tax investment there's no advantage using hashtags invest because [TS]

01:57:17 ◼   ► it's not shared not public so tags investor are just like old school Mac [TS]

01:57:21 ◼   ► filings you just type whatever you want upper and lower case with spaces and its [TS]

01:57:25 ◼   ► English and it looks nice and it's readable [TS]

01:57:27 ◼   ► but I totally understand how on a social network that the hashtag thing is genius [TS]

01:57:33 ◼   ► because you can put it on screen and people know what it means and there's no [TS]

01:57:39 ◼   ► explanation and doesn't just bang whatever and there it is right because [TS]

01:57:45 ◼   ► you could argue that like in you know in our ever increasing capabilities [TS]

01:57:51 ◼   ► computationally like you should be able to say interest status message in it [TS]

01:57:57 ◼   ► sees like the Olympics and it should be able to know that the Olympics you're [TS]

01:58:01 ◼   ► talking about is the same that you know a million other people are talking about [TS]

01:58:05 ◼   ► and so there should be no sort of the away [TS]

01:58:07 ◼   ► ABC radically to sort of link those together but how would you convey that [TS]

01:58:11 ◼   ► until there would be no way and you can you know and it shows up and all other [TS]

01:58:14 ◼   ► put you know billboards and stuff like that just hash tag whatever or user [TS]

01:58:18 ◼   ► names you know it's it's really you know effectively it's been genius and you [TS]

01:58:23 ◼   ► know and it's funny to that neither of those things came from Twitter that is [TS]

01:58:29 ◼   ► right that users and Chris Messina you know definitely I mean we do we know [TS]

01:58:35 ◼   ► that he more or less invented the hashtag not as a Twitter employee just [TS]

01:58:38 ◼   ► as Twitter user it's just like total company building culture changing idea [TS]

01:58:49 ◼   ► they just like said hey I think what what if we just used as tags shines and [TS]

01:58:55 ◼   ► tag names after the hashtag to group tweets and the odd thing i think is a [TS]

01:59:01 ◼   ► little bit murkier in terms of last time I saw anybody try to figure out who [TS]

01:59:05 ◼   ► started doing it but an end [TS]

01:59:07 ◼   ► you know there was some will end it has ties to email yeah and and Flickr people [TS]

01:59:12 ◼   ► were doing it on Flickr where they were in the comments section you know it was [TS]

01:59:16 ◼   ► it was a thing where if there's like 14 comment on a photo and you wanted reply [TS]

01:59:23 ◼   ► to the seventh commenter you type at their username and then space [TS]

01:59:28 ◼   ► make meaning you were directing it at them to remember when the there was wind [TS]

01:59:33 ◼   ► sort of the location services like Foursquare and go on stuff started [TS]

01:59:36 ◼   ► gaining popularity was like it's super head that like the the at symbol has [TS]

01:59:41 ◼   ► already been sort of taken by using it to direct message at someone rather than [TS]

01:59:45 ◼   ► it being an actual location right you know would arguably make more sense yeah [TS]

01:59:49 ◼   ► it definitely will well and then the email that sense that's what it meant it [TS]

01:59:53 ◼   ► was you know if you were named John at daring fireball dotnet its mean you know [TS]

02:00:00 ◼   ► means I John is me at this server [TS]

02:00:04 ◼   ► you know it kinda makes in the Twitter sense it doesn't accept when you think [TS]

02:00:10 ◼   ► about the fact that the reply is supposed to be at right there's like I [TS]

02:00:16 ◼   ► guess semantically the at is different than the username the ad is saying this [TS]

02:00:20 ◼   ► is at this person Gruber is really my twitter handle but it's just visually [TS]

02:00:28 ◼   ► it's just become you know at grouper is now my twitter handle and it's a funny [TS]

02:00:33 ◼   ► way to to kind of take the use of these characters that are on everybody's [TS]

02:00:39 ◼   ► keyboard that we're kind of underused at was really mean don't do anyway I ever [TS]

02:00:44 ◼   ► saw anything used the at symbol in my entire life before email was like a [TS]

02:00:49 ◼   ► grocery store where they would say like to at one dollar or something like that [TS]

02:00:54 ◼   ► just because it's shorter right it was all you know is almost like why in the [TS]

02:01:02 ◼   ► world do we have these that bad especially on her keyboard how to the [TS]

02:01:05 ◼   ► world that become a standard thing on everybody's keyboard but then gmail made [TS]

02:01:09 ◼   ► great use of it and then you know in this user name scenario it's become [TS]

02:01:14 ◼   ► great and then numbers I guess everybody uses a flight number one number two [TS]

02:01:18 ◼   ► but you know it's it's somehow works and it's a thing it looks geeky but [TS]

02:01:27 ◼   ► obviously if you just go in like surf hashtags on Twitter and Instagram I mean [TS]

02:01:31 ◼   ► millions of people use them normal people and so another one is like em [TS]

02:01:36 ◼   ► percent to people use like it does anyone use that often is certainly in [TS]

02:01:40 ◼   ► writing but like you ever see that being used you know again sort of emails that [TS]

02:01:45 ◼   ► you sender or receiver people still using it as a shorthand for you know for [TS]

02:01:51 ◼   ► and there's a very few I it's a pet peeve of mine and so every once in [TS]

02:01:56 ◼   ► awhile like for example you know I don't have any co-writers during fireball but [TS]

02:02:03 ◼   ► one is sponsored by weekly sponsorships come in every once in awhile whoever [TS]

02:02:08 ◼   ► wrote the sponsored thing will use am percent instead of ants and I just [TS]

02:02:11 ◼   ► change in plans but it's so it's not it's not rare but it's uncommon it's a [TS]

02:02:18 ◼   ► little unusual I don't know if there could be one that gets it gets taken [TS]

02:02:23 ◼   ► yeah I think it's there I think it's totally right to be taken [TS]

02:02:27 ◼   ► yeah what percentage signed dollar sign that everybody knows with them and [TS]

02:02:33 ◼   ► they're kind of you know I guess the [TS]

02:02:35 ◼   ► the carrot carrot is maybe the only other one that you could use but the [TS]

02:02:41 ◼   ► tilde and the back deck you know which is probably the least use key on [TS]

02:02:47 ◼   ► anybody's keyboard but there are two they're too small you can't they're not [TS]

02:02:51 ◼   ► visually discernible like other advantages of the at sign in the pound [TS]

02:02:55 ◼   ► sign or hash whatever you want to call that thing is that they're so visually [TS]

02:03:01 ◼   ► distinctive yes there they stand out there the full height and they're very [TS]

02:03:08 ◼   ► very visually distinctive ampersand has that going for it [TS]

02:03:13 ◼   ► aryan people people of course have use most notably I guess StockTwits is the [TS]

02:03:19 ◼   ► one to use the money sign say that you're talking about a stock when you do [TS]

02:03:23 ◼   ► it and I think that works its but yeah that's actually I forgot about that but [TS]

02:03:26 ◼   ► that does work right because because in the other it doesn't collide with the [TS]

02:03:30 ◼   ► other sense because there is no number right if ya like dollar sign followed by [TS]

02:03:36 ◼   ► letters never had meaning before yes it actually is a good use [TS]

02:03:41 ◼   ► that's another one that's a good counter example I thought about the other day [TS]

02:03:45 ◼   ► actually was thinking about this with the hash symbol whether if I were [TS]

02:03:51 ◼   ► inventing marked down today whether I would still use that it it's a way to [TS]

02:03:57 ◼   ► indicate I don't think it collides because there's a space after it and I [TS]

02:04:04 ◼   ► don't think that you know I think I guess I would cause I couldn't think of [TS]

02:04:08 ◼   ► another character that I would use but you know hashtags in the system invented [TS]

02:04:13 ◼   ► Martin and nobody's ever written me to complain about that so I'm guessing that [TS]

02:04:17 ◼   ► it isn'ta problem why why did you how come why not use something like the at [TS]

02:04:25 ◼   ► symbol for like a link or something like that why do it the way that it's done [TS]

02:04:28 ◼   ► cuz its cuz I wanted it to be is visually non distracting as possible so [TS]

02:04:36 ◼   ► that's why it's square brackets [TS]

02:04:47 ◼   ► sounds like a show yeah alright MGC where thank you very much free time of [TS]

02:04:55 ◼   ► course and people can catch you at Paris lemon stakes it has taken but you do [TS]

02:05:04 ◼   ► have a username and Paris Paris 11.com I'll talk to some [TS]