The Talk Show

78: Live From Build 2014


00:00:00   again to power and John career kind of a curveball show this week I was out in [TS]

00:00:06   San Francisco for of all things Microsoft's build developer conference [TS]

00:00:12   moral assets Microsoft's version of WWDC we talked about that show but one of the [TS]

00:00:18   things that that I got offered Microsoft offered to give me a room in the [TS]

00:00:23   conference Thursday afternoon to do a live audience episode of the talk show [TS]

00:00:28   and it kind of came together not quite last minute but but closed and I took it [TS]

00:00:34   as an opportunity to have a new gas cuz I met you know some people from the [TS]

00:00:38   other side of the fence to cover microsoft more than Apple and so at-bat [TS]

00:00:43   whose coverage of Microsoft I've been following for a long time many years big [TS]

00:00:48   fan of his Twitter account to never met him in person before though so took the [TS]

00:00:53   opportunity to invite him on the show that's what you're going to hear so this [TS]

00:00:57   was recorded in moscow knee last the people in the audience were all [TS]

00:01:02   attendees of the bill developer conference and he came off ok you'll [TS]

00:01:06   hear from me I didn't do any sponsor reads during the live event so I [TS]

00:01:10   recording those in post which is unusual usually I just do them right in the [TS]

00:01:14   middle of the show but it didn't seem right with the live audience so I'll pop [TS]

00:01:18   again probably three more times with interesting information from these shows [TS]

00:01:23   great sponsors and enjoy the show I think it came off pretty well I think I [TS]

00:01:27   had a good time the party start one more thing we're not sure what happened I [TS]

00:01:31   don't know what happened but the audio file that we got from Microsoft cut it [TS]

00:01:35   clipped a few minutes from the end of the show I think it was exactly seventy [TS]

00:01:40   four minutes our best guess is that maybe they were recording it right to a [TS]

00:01:44   CD and there's a 74 minute time limit so they're not much got cut off the show [TS]

00:01:48   didn't go much longer than that [TS]

00:01:50   but I actually yeah you know the actual event I did like a nice thank you to [TS]

00:01:54   everybody who showed up and dad and and then wrapped up rather neatly whereas [TS]

00:01:59   when you're going to hear here and a bit abruptly but the good thing is it kind [TS]

00:02:04   of worked out because it ends in a very Microsoft and way [TS]

00:02:08   easily number one question I've been asked this week is why are you here and [TS]

00:02:16   it's very easy I'm here for the free Xbox how are we all everybody got their [TS]

00:02:23   free xbox so I got from my case so I'm here this is the talk show this is my [TS]

00:02:34   podcast I'm John Gruber so many people here probably from my guest this week is [TS]

00:02:41   baat hai jaan thank you for joining me long time how long you've been covering [TS]

00:02:46   Microsoft is a full time since 1992 [TS]

00:02:52   right long as I've been following your byline and stuff on Microsoft I can't [TS]

00:03:02   remember when I don't either so it is very different than an Apple conference [TS]

00:03:14   I'm I'm a foreigner here you know I go to WWDC just about every year this is my [TS]

00:03:21   first Microsoft Developer Conference that I've attended very interesting [TS]

00:03:25   similar and certain fundamental ways but very different I can't think of a better [TS]

00:03:30   obvious answer is that everybody who came to this conference but 5,000 [TS]

00:03:35   attendees on day one was told hey guess what you're getting an Xbox one that was [TS]

00:03:40   called Xbox Xbox one that's it [TS]

00:03:42   which was very popular at Apple conferences one time like 11 years ago [TS]

00:03:50   they gave away [TS]

00:03:52   amounts [TS]

00:03:54   this year they had a broken mouse was featured in in one of the demos that [TS]

00:04:04   they were they were doing it was kind of it was it was supposed to be a typical [TS]

00:04:09   enterprise app that that that someone in the audience might develop for their [TS]

00:04:15   company and so they used one of the great Microsoft fake company names [TS]

00:04:20   fabric am and and they built a mobile app and so he was able to report that he [TS]

00:04:27   was giving a keynote address in his mouth was broken he could take a picture [TS]

00:04:31   of the meadows and and then you know said that the facilities in facilities [TS]

00:04:37   could bring him a new mouse and the interesting thing about that app was [TS]

00:04:40   that they demonstrated it on an iPhone right now that's very true so very weird [TS]

00:04:49   times I've had several people this week remind me of that scene from [TS]

00:04:54   Ghostbusters you know dogs and cats living together mass hysteria and and I [TS]

00:05:01   think you know I think they expect fireworks here and I think in a way [TS]

00:05:06   they're going to be disappointed because what what we really have here is two [TS]

00:05:11   guys who understand their respective worlds and those worlds have been far [TS]

00:05:18   apart for a long time and you know and and there was just this sort of an [TS]

00:05:22   diagram where you had this little slice in the middle and now those worlds her [TS]

00:05:27   you know their their overlapping significantly more than they ever have i [TS]

00:05:32   mean I have to acknowledge it because everybody I mean not acknowledge that I [TS]

00:05:37   was actually featured in the keynote today wearing my mother had not the [TS]

00:05:42   daring fireball had but you branch the software company I work out with my [TS]

00:05:47   colleagues brenton they iphoneonly right now and we're using as your we've [TS]

00:05:55   announced today for our backend sink and and they were nice enough to ask us if [TS]

00:06:00   we would do a little promotional video and talk about it and say why and did [TS]

00:06:06   you know awful lot of white holy shit I like watch TV I don't get to see the [TS]

00:06:14   video before I why I was in the keynote I watched videos I look like a big axle [TS]

00:06:19   in production values she's super nice and and the message was exactly the [TS]

00:06:25   truth you know it wasn't like you know here's the lines to give it they asked [TS]

00:06:29   questions and Britain I gave honest answers and that's where they put the [TS]

00:06:32   video was great and I've gotta check Twitter I believe the first tweet that I [TS]

00:06:39   saw after that video ran the somebody said hell froze over very good and [TS]

00:06:48   they're awful lot of them with pictures to its very weird for me I am NOT used [TS]

00:06:53   to browsing my Twitter replies and seeing my picture of her usual for me [TS]

00:07:00   but interests but I also think fundamentally you know you said with the [TS]

00:07:07   Venn diagram with ever increasing overlap between Microsoft and Apple [TS]

00:07:11   world's is that it's the truth there's an honesty to what I'm hearing from [TS]

00:07:18   Microsoft not just without your but a lot of things that when they say it's a [TS]

00:07:27   multi-device multi-platform world that they mean that there they there's like [TS]

00:07:32   an acceptance that it's not going to be 95 percent of all computing devices [TS]

00:07:37   running Windows anymore that's all you know how do you stay out of the house [TS]

00:07:43   Microsoft stay relevant and successful and grow in that world will one way is [TS]

00:07:49   by spending I think its 3.2 billion dollars in capex this year to build out [TS]

00:07:55   as ur you know and you know putting basically you know large chunks of the [TS]

00:08:04   Visual Studio Visual Studio development environment into that cloud so that it [TS]

00:08:11   will run into any browser on any on on any device [TS]

00:08:16   mean that that kind of of expenditure you know it is really specific evidence [TS]

00:08:22   money talks I think that especially with the people who read my stuff and are [TS]

00:08:29   coming from a more alcohol more interested in Apple perspective I think [TS]

00:08:35   that Microsoft's efforts in that as your direction you know I didn't even know [TS]

00:08:40   that number 3.2 billion capex but that's that's a huge number i mean there are [TS]

00:08:43   very few companies in the world that he could spend 3.2 billion dollars I mean [TS]

00:08:49   that's that's a really short list that's because it's a raid that that's [TS]

00:08:51   one-sixth of a whatsapp the difference there is a Microsoft isn't as to how [TS]

00:09:04   much cum company is operating in a world where their capex expenditures come from [TS]

00:09:09   actual profits from actual revenues and not from facebook.com money money and [TS]

00:09:16   there's an ROI on that capex too because you know you're going to be paying [TS]

00:09:21   presumably for that for those has your instances and all that stuff and there's [TS]

00:09:27   a lot of of you know not just startups but fortune 500 companies that are using [TS]

00:09:34   that data infrastructure as well the other thing about about Azure when you [TS]

00:09:40   go I'm I mean as your user myself have a MSDN subscription so I get like 50 bucks [TS]

00:09:46   of credit each month and you say you know what can you get for 50 bucks the [TS]

00:09:49   shocking thing is that I can run my website on it and I think that uses like [TS]

00:09:54   seven dollars worth of credit [TS]

00:09:57   you know over the course of a month and I couldn't you know just incredible [TS]

00:10:01   flexibility on it but when you go to that as your portal and start poking [TS]

00:10:07   around you see ok well im gonna create a virtual machine in the cloud now and you [TS]

00:10:11   look at all these Windows servers and and wait a minute there's like this long [TS]

00:10:17   list of Linux distros as well that I could do you know if so I could do to [TS]

00:10:23   enterprise and Red Hat and open seeing all these you know [TS]

00:10:28   all these things and and you know yet another example of where you know if you [TS]

00:10:34   could get the time machine and and go back a decade or so and and have someone [TS]

00:10:40   say yeah you know Microsoft you're going to be selling your largest competitors [TS]

00:10:45   operating system [TS]

00:10:48   largest competitors server operating system in a you know in a cloud-based [TS]

00:10:52   service they you know they wrap you up in a way we ourselves are using as [TS]

00:10:59   you're in a very non Windows the way we're not running Windows operating [TS]

00:11:05   system we're not using the Windows SQL Server we're using it in a very open [TS]

00:11:11   source unit exceeds sort of way [TS]

00:11:15   alright but I think bryant would agree with me though [TS]

00:11:22   Reds Brent Simmons by my colleague the guy did all the work but it's true or [TS]

00:11:27   not true not we haven't become Windows developers by adopting as you we're [TS]

00:11:31   still totally iOS developers and doing this network cloud stuff in a very open [TS]

00:11:38   source non event databases you've gots generic storage the you can configure [TS]

00:11:45   just about any way you want you've got messaging services available to all [TS]

00:11:51   sorts of other mobile services that are available to you and none of them are [TS]

00:11:55   our windows in fact what's you know what's really fascinating and kinda [TS]

00:12:00   weird for me as a guy who has covered windows for twenty-plus years is that [TS]

00:12:06   you know they changed the name of a juror from Windows Azure Microsoft Azure [TS]

00:12:10   that's on one level that symbolic but on another much more important level it's [TS]

00:12:18   it's a reflection of how both the company and the products changed [TS]

00:12:24   completely agree [TS]

00:12:26   another thing I definitely noticed and I saw a lot of people coming on Twitter [TS]

00:12:30   you and i talked about a pre-show [TS]

00:12:33   but during the keynote today an awful lot of the demos were running on [TS]

00:12:40   non-microsoft devices there were iPhones that were being used in demos they I i [TS]

00:12:46   thought i pad in a couple right there was a demo camera in my dressing rights [TS]

00:12:55   and remember it's amber and demo was running with an IDE running on a Macbook [TS]

00:13:04   and there is Mac OS 10 up the you know actually felt at home with Safari with [TS]

00:13:11   Safari Safari yeah so you know this same thing and I think I tweeted this today [TS]

00:13:18   as well and a lot of the slides [TS]

00:13:21   you know there was clearly a conscious effort to to be very inclusive about [TS]

00:13:27   platforms but you know so they would there would of course be the entire [TS]

00:13:33   Microsoft range going from xbox through the various windows form factors and and [TS]

00:13:40   then down to Windows Phone but then there were Android phones and tablets [TS]

00:13:43   and iPads and iPhones and then Kindle Fire yesterday was also you know that at [TS]

00:13:51   one point they said and we've added notification support 22 Kindle Fire and [TS]

00:13:56   you know it's they way you talk about competition [TS]

00:14:01   you know the fascinating thing is that Amazon Web Services and a juror could [TS]

00:14:08   not be more direct competitors yes absolutely [TS]

00:14:12   direct competitors and yet you know you have if you're going to play this we [TS]

00:14:18   want to be on as many devices in as many platforms as possible you can't say well [TS]

00:14:24   we don't like that company so you know the fire gets its excluded it's you know [TS]

00:14:29   it's gonna be there and I think there's also something when you go around you [TS]

00:14:34   talk to the people with the Microsoft name tags here there is much less of the [TS]

00:14:43   hold your nose factor when you're talking about those other platforms will [TS]

00:14:47   we have to support them I think there's some actual genuine enthusiasm now about [TS]

00:14:52   you know it it's almost like it's you know how many boxes can we take off on [TS]

00:14:57   this checklist here [TS]

00:14:59   yeah I mean obviously note no question about it walking through the hallways [TS]

00:15:03   here and just watching and observing you see very high or higher than anywhere [TS]

00:15:08   else I've ever seen percentage of people using Windows Phone devices no question [TS]

00:15:13   about it makes sense you know the bill developer conference but a lot of people [TS]

00:15:17   with iPhones yep you know and it's weird and so there's one of these ways where [TS]

00:15:23   you know you close your eyes for a decade and you you can miss these sort [TS]

00:15:28   of tectonic shifts but that Apple community developers users everything is [TS]

00:15:34   far more of a technical monoculture today than the Microsoft community right [TS]

00:15:41   right I mean I honest I mean I'm not and I'm not even saying anything other than [TS]

00:15:45   inevitable that with the success that Apple's had and and you know the quality [TS]

00:15:49   but you got to WTC and try to find somebody was not using an iPhone you're [TS]

00:15:54   gonna have a hard time you'll find somebody there's somebody with an [TS]

00:15:57   Android phone because they're they're just too right [TS]

00:16:00   Mac apps or something it's not like nobody had a neck I will also be wearing [TS]

00:16:04   Google glass yeah we just saw one guy at WBC this year with Google glass glass [TS]

00:16:11   and and [TS]

00:16:12   and Galaxy S six problem you'll find somebody had a five thousand person [TS]

00:16:19   conference using everything but I took a picture at WTC this year I saw a guy so [TS]

00:16:28   I mean little you'll find somebody that was actually the next iPhone very [TS]

00:16:32   cleverly disguised they've they've learned after that or Gizmodo things we [TS]

00:16:37   gotta make the disguise is better [TS]

00:16:39   nobody's gonna steal that one it was the date was day one and they had announced [TS]

00:16:44   the new Mac Pro which is very pretty machine and it looks very different than [TS]

00:16:49   every thousand had them of course behind glass can't touch spinning around and [TS]

00:16:53   everybody was like looking at it and there's this guy taking a picture with [TS]

00:16:57   his foot and I thought and I'm like looking around and other people are my [TS]

00:17:00   this is way more interesting than his he's like you know its performance art [TS]

00:17:10   is it had to be like Andy Kaufman has returned in this is doing that thing but [TS]

00:17:16   you know so it is true you know inclusiveness platforms and everything [TS]

00:17:23   and yet there is still a lot of windows here oh [TS]

00:17:27   a whole lot of windows and and and a lot of pride and investment in in in what's [TS]

00:17:37   happening in in those platforms and not just the sort of generic PCs but in some [TS]

00:17:45   of the more interesting form factors and especially the phones you know well the [TS]

00:17:52   other thing too is the developer tools and Microsoft has always had a golden [TS]

00:17:57   reputation for the quality of their developer tools and training and in ways [TS]

00:18:03   that you know even people like us who have been only really developing all [TS]

00:18:08   products for decades even have always been in the back of the head by that I [TS]

00:18:13   mean they're there I D plus you know our stuff away their debugging [TS]

00:18:18   get up and even you know so it makes sense though that there's so much [TS]

00:18:21   windows here because you've got to be on Windows using those developer tools but [TS]

00:18:24   they showed some really cool stuff that caught my eye and I guess you knew about [TS]

00:18:27   this crystal you tweet but I forget what its called but its thing where you can [TS]

00:18:31   go into the open a webpage going to develop promote and everybody you know [TS]

00:18:36   browser link so you can see the sea CSS and HTML behind the page and you can [TS]

00:18:41   tweak it and all the major browsers have had this reaching you can test like a [TS]

00:18:45   color change that's where they don't change the color of the bed but with [TS]

00:18:50   this browser link it hooks up to the IDE and it'll actually change the source [TS]

00:18:57   file as you change their yes yes so instead of just changing it on the page [TS]

00:19:03   and seeing it and seeing how it looks [TS]

00:19:05   it's actually you know you can make the change in the IDE and see it reflected [TS]

00:19:10   instantly in the browser or you could change in the browser and see it [TS]

00:19:14   instantly reflected in the I D which is pretty mind-blowing actually and again [TS]

00:19:20   in keeping with sort-of ecumenical theme of the whole thing they demoed that in [TS]

00:19:25   chrome yeah that was that was it I thought the same thing I thought that's [TS]

00:19:29   a really cool feature but you gotta use I had that thought and it works [TS]

00:19:34   yeah I think the answer to this is going to yes but do you you perceive the same [TS]

00:19:40   sort of sea change in attitude you know about lack of a better word the rank and [TS]

00:19:46   file it at Microsoft in terms of yeah I think it is a new Microsoft and [TS]

00:19:53   unmistakably so I think what's interesting though is that for outsiders [TS]

00:19:58   there's a temptation to look at microsoft today and and think that this [TS]

00:20:04   change is relatively recent and sudden and its related to things like unabomber [TS]

00:20:13   leaving right for example you know or or or this or the success of Android or [TS]

00:20:20   something and actually you know one of the one of the interesting things about [TS]

00:20:26   having covered this for so many years is that a lot of the things that we're [TS]

00:20:31   seeing today are things that they were talking about at the equivalent of this [TS]

00:20:36   show five or six years ago in 2008 and [TS]

00:20:42   they were basically describing the world that we saw in yesterday's and today's [TS]

00:20:48   keynote and there were some skepticism from people you know about you know are [TS]

00:20:54   you going to be able to tip tip all this stuff off and so you know you know about [TS]

00:21:00   dragged out my notebooks from from some of those events I think you'd see wow [TS]

00:21:05   they they did that they did that they did that they shouldn't have any didn't [TS]

00:21:11   do that one you know but there's a there's a tremendous amount you know [TS]

00:21:14   back then they called it three screens in a cloud [TS]

00:21:18   I think I think they might have gotten the number of screens wrong there's more [TS]

00:21:22   than you know there's a little more than three but they basically said you know [TS]

00:21:25   phones and PCs / tablets they didn't they didn't think of those two separate [TS]

00:21:32   categories and and the TV we're all going to be important and they all [TS]

00:21:37   needed to be connected to services that were capable of running anywhere [TS]

00:21:43   because they're gathering data from in synchronizing with cloud services [TS]

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00:23:27   don't know you came from the show and my thanks to them for sponsoring the talk [TS]

00:23:32   show now back to the show [TS]

00:23:35   so you do you think it's fair to say the gist of what I'm hearing there is that [TS]

00:23:39   you get the casual observer is going to want to draw a direct cause and effect [TS]

00:23:47   where we've got Steve Ballmer announces his resignation as a search and then [TS]

00:23:53   sixty days ago or so they said okay here we got a guy and he's like loud guy [TS]

00:23:59   right and he's the new CEO and everybody boards behind a bill gates behind and [TS]

00:24:07   Steve Ballmer's behind them now Steve Ballmer's retired CEO and Satya Nadella [TS]

00:24:12   and all of these changes are all going to be attributed to Satya Nadella new [TS]

00:24:17   CEO has changed the company in 60 days right and that is sort of how it's going [TS]

00:24:22   to play from the from the outsider's perspective that's exactly what it looks [TS]

00:24:26   like and yet when you think you know we're you know you're talking about some [TS]

00:24:33   apple related stuff about how long it takes to build these these things you [TS]

00:24:39   know that the iPhone didn't come into existence in 60 days it took years for [TS]

00:24:45   it to be developed years when nobody knew anything about it and all the [TS]

00:24:49   things that we're seeing today have you know pretty much you know a year to 35 [TS]

00:24:56   years for a lot of this stuff to Asher stuff you know that goes back a decade [TS]

00:25:04   has to because although I mean how many data centers does your running we have [TS]

00:25:09   an answer that one I don't know the answer to but somebody out there can [TS]

00:25:12   look at nine so yeah so you don't build out nine like massive world-class doing [TS]

00:25:20   dollar data centers you know sixty days what do you think that's telling though [TS]

00:25:26   that they did I mean you I i do I think that is very telling that they [TS]

00:25:29   effectively pick the as your guide to be the CEO of Microsoft oh yeah I mean [TS]

00:25:35   that's the direction that it was going is it was the right choice and I think [TS]

00:25:39   it was the right choice to make [TS]

00:25:40   to you know if you brought in an outsider [TS]

00:25:46   you get added a random element right to it and and you've created basically then [TS]

00:25:54   you created a level of uncertainty [TS]

00:25:58   bringing such an as the as the CEO says basically this train is not slowing down [TS]

00:26:06   it in fact you know will we might speed up a little bit but the name of the game [TS]

00:26:10   basically is growth they gotta find somewhere where they're going to grow [TS]

00:26:13   and as your that whole area of cloud services it's going to grow is clearly [TS]

00:26:19   somebody's gonna you know it's like the old saying if somebody's gotta make [TS]

00:26:23   money might as well be Microsoft right to somebody's gonna I mean there's no [TS]

00:26:26   doubt whatsoever I don't think anybody would disagree no matter how they [TS]

00:26:31   observe the industry cloud computing is gonna grow from here forward so there it [TS]

00:26:39   just seems like the most likely source for Microsoft have significant growth [TS]

00:26:42   well look at office for iPad which is really when you get right down to it [TS]

00:26:47   it's a cloud product the only way yes you can yes it's a free app you can [TS]

00:26:54   download a nine-year on your iPad and you can view documents and you can [TS]

00:26:57   present a presentation you created somewhere else and you can save files [TS]

00:27:02   locally but the the the thing that unlocks the real value of the of those [TS]

00:27:07   apps which are what your lovely absent I and I think they're going to iterate [TS]

00:27:11   them pretty quickly that the thing that unlocks their value is a subscription to [TS]

00:27:16   office 365 which runs in as user and you know on consumer end and business side [TS]

00:27:24   it's a more or less like step one in the whole concept of the iPad Office apps is [TS]

00:27:30   how do you get your documents there and it's clearly the you know there might be [TS]

00:27:35   thought you might be able to find workarounds for other things and you can [TS]

00:27:38   open an email attachment but it's clearly designed to use the one Dr one [TS]

00:27:45   drive as the way that you're going to product previously noted SkyDrive what's [TS]

00:27:50   the deal with that why did they change that [TS]

00:27:52   Rupert Murdoch is the short answer the long answer is BSkyB the British [TS]

00:28:01   television giant owns the sky trademark and they actually have some cloud [TS]

00:28:10   services at their own so they sued Microsoft in in the UK for trademark [TS]

00:28:15   infringement won the first battle microsoft said rather than appealing [TS]

00:28:20   this in potentially losing more expensively they they signed an [TS]

00:28:24   agreement to to change the name [TS]

00:28:27   21 drive reminds me of what happened to them with the Metro name for the new [TS]

00:28:33   user interface where they had this seemingly perfect name for this thing [TS]

00:28:38   that needed a name right and then some kind of trademark lawyers dot dot dot [TS]

00:28:44   you want to know and now it's like the new interface they haven't been very [TS]

00:28:49   transparent about that one that was a German company Metro AG I think and they [TS]

00:28:55   I think they're sort of like you know german Walmart or something they have [TS]

00:29:00   you know groceries in computers and it was one of those they they caved they [TS]

00:29:07   caved on that one in and since [TS]

00:29:09   and ever since they caved on that one every discussion of apps that are [TS]

00:29:15   written for Windows 8 for the native environment in Windows 8 becomes his [TS]

00:29:20   awkward thing where you say well he's modern Windows Store at Metro apps thing [TS]

00:29:30   where there was who who owns the trademark to iPhone in 2006 Cisco right [TS]

00:29:36   and and they even came out with a product in December 2006 like four weeks [TS]

00:29:42   before Steve Jobs unveiled the iPhone and it was remembered Gizmodo totally [TS]

00:29:48   you know hats off to them for doing but they're like here is the iPhone [TS]

00:29:52   and it was and it was called the iPhone but it was like the Cisco iPhone and it [TS]

00:30:02   was like some kind of stupid like regular phone but it somehow you could [TS]

00:30:06   put on IP network it was like clearly somebody at Cisco who is in his these [TS]

00:30:10   these trademark negotiations with Apple was like we be in a better position if [TS]

00:30:15   we had a product using this stake in the ground does anybody have a phone and [TS]

00:30:20   they die they just took one of the phones and just cut the cable and [TS]

00:30:25   they're like somebody putting even if you look at it closely it's actually a [TS]

00:30:28   Sharpie that drew iPhone on the back and then I remember on stage when he when he [TS]

00:30:35   announced that he and he said you know it's a phone and a communicator and you [TS]

00:30:39   know whatever the other iPod widescreen video iPod and yes we're calling it i've [TS]

00:30:46   and you can almost hear you want to say fuck you Cisco and they say another [TS]

00:31:02   thing I have here with apple and and Steve Jobs demon and and it kind of goes [TS]

00:31:06   back to the nineties and there is the famous Macworld Expo in summer ninety [TS]

00:31:16   seven when you know jobs was the ice CEO interim CEO and they announced 250 [TS]

00:31:24   million dollar investment from Microsoft and Apple and the crowd boom [TS]

00:31:29   Boston rates yet and the giant you know like seventy-foot Bill Gates on video [TS]

00:31:35   behind Steve Jobs and there's two things about that I have been thinking about [TS]

00:31:42   this week I just saw somebody else [TS]

00:31:44   a lot of people think that that hundred and fifty million from Microsoft saved [TS]

00:31:47   apple literally like kept them out and they were close to bankruptcy but the [TS]

00:31:51   hundred and fifty million wasn't anywhere near as big a deal in terms of [TS]

00:31:55   same name as the commitment to keep making office for mac because that kept [TS]

00:32:01   the stock up because it was like well at least it's somewhat that was well way [TS]

00:32:05   bigger deal than 250 million in cash it also kept developers from defecting as [TS]

00:32:10   they said you know if the office is available there then that means that the [TS]

00:32:14   biggest developer of productivity software in the world is still committed [TS]

00:32:19   to it so we can we can draft with them we can ride the coattails hundred and [TS]

00:32:24   fifty million investment was really symbolic and and you know and I mean [TS]

00:32:28   that you know I'm not a financial expert but Apple had been losing billions and [TS]

00:32:32   go from where Apple was in the early nineties where they were flying high [TS]

00:32:36   to be teetering even mentioning the word bankruptcy meant they were losing [TS]

00:32:39   billions 350 million you know you're losing billions price 250 million you [TS]

00:32:45   just lose that Vegas it was the commitment to office that really was [TS]

00:32:51   like you know Microsoft still with us in the Microsoft deal with this you know [TS]

00:32:55   maybe you should be till but the thing that number is that and they got booed [TS]

00:32:59   like you said you know they booed this and people wanted to fight and Steve [TS]

00:33:03   Jobs said paraphrasing but I can get a quote [TS]

00:33:06   close is we have to let go this notion that for Apple to win Microsoft has to [TS]

00:33:13   lose probably win Apple just has to make great products and other companies want [TS]

00:33:18   to help us that's great we'll take it we want friend but if we have to do it [TS]

00:33:22   ourselves we do and we're gonna sink or swim loser die by are we gonna make [TS]

00:33:27   great products and I think that's exactly where Microsoft is today it's [TS]

00:33:32   significantly better balance sheet right now and that's it it's a huge advantage [TS]

00:33:37   right so Microsoft Apple was actually in trouble Microsoft is not in trouble i'd [TS]

00:33:41   say what [TS]

00:33:42   the problem Microsoft has gotten into is more or less like they were in the [TS]

00:33:46   doldrums [TS]

00:33:47   they were in the doldrums and you could also see certain product lines that had [TS]

00:33:54   whatever the inverse hockey stick curve is you know where there was a potential [TS]

00:34:00   they could just go you know the thing and and and go down and drop off a cliff [TS]

00:34:05   and anybody who's who's looking at that the desktop software market for example [TS]

00:34:11   used to be that you could get you a developer could sell a Windows program [TS]

00:34:20   for thirty to fifty dollars fairly easily [TS]

00:34:23   people people would pay that for a very complex product you you know you might [TS]

00:34:28   get a hundred $200 and then an Adobe and Microsoft to charge a lot more than that [TS]

00:34:34   today you know the idea I mean the idea of someone paying $30 for a program is [TS]

00:34:43   is almost laughable [TS]

00:34:44   you know people if you if you asked for $10 for a nap now if we're gonna ask too [TS]

00:34:50   expensive you know $5 they you know $5 they might consider it but many better [TS]

00:34:56   be good and I don't want to see a single four-star review in there and everything [TS]

00:35:01   else is $0.99 or you know or a buck 99 and so you know I think anybody who [TS]

00:35:06   looked couple years ago at where the you know just post iPad [TS]

00:35:11   and with the App Store in in in full swing [TS]

00:35:16   you look at that and you said our business is dependent on desktop [TS]

00:35:20   software and windows licenses that cost more than $30 we better figure out how [TS]

00:35:28   how to let that business degrade and find the one that's going to keep [TS]

00:35:32   growing [TS]

00:35:34   I think it's true I i really do I think that even when companies get truly big [TS]

00:35:38   and Microsoft has a huge company Apple is a huge company but there's a certain [TS]

00:35:44   DNA that always dates back to when it was founded and you know without really [TS]

00:35:50   does go back to this DNA that when it was you know the two Steves in a garage [TS]

00:35:55   for Microsoft part of that DNA to me is the whole idea of selling soft as I get [TS]

00:36:02   the seventies there's this nascent personal computing mark and anybody who [TS]

00:36:09   was like us and was in the computers that time was can't wait I have a [TS]

00:36:14   computer in my house and there was I want to write people wanna write [TS]

00:36:17   software for it and people would write the software and they would just publish [TS]

00:36:21   it in the source code and anybody can do it and Bill Gates's thing what you have [TS]

00:36:26   a letter that he published just thinking of that one you know homebrew computing [TS]

00:36:30   stop stealing software pay for it right [TS]

00:36:33   his idea what you know everybody was saying everybody was saying we could [TS]

00:36:36   write software for personal computers Bill Gates and Steve Ballmer dunno [TS]

00:36:40   together and and and pollen pollen their idea was we can write software for [TS]

00:36:45   personal computers and we can sell it [TS]

00:36:48   right and people thought they were not right there were people thought he was [TS]

00:36:52   absolutely nuts and when you wrote the letter that said stop sell you know [TS]

00:36:55   stealing it we're trying to you know if if everybody still that we will not be [TS]

00:36:59   able to keep making it never liked when nobody's gonna pay for software and you [TS]

00:37:04   know it was right but that's their DNA and the world is really kind of shifting [TS]

00:37:09   away from you know well the other thing the other interesting thing about the [TS]

00:37:14   DNA of the company and its unique 22 Microsoft was what happened in 1997 to [TS]

00:37:25   2001 with the the antitrust trial that resulted in you know that the big [TS]

00:37:33   settlement agreement settlement decree and then that was followed by a couple [TS]

00:37:40   of of antitrust suits in Europe and so I think the other that the interesting [TS]

00:37:47   thing about Microsoft is they still have that sort of founders DNA in them but [TS]

00:37:52   they also have this you know they were brutalized by those lawsuits they were [TS]

00:38:00   forced to change you know just about every business practice that had made [TS]

00:38:05   them that it made them successful some of them it's a good thing that those [TS]

00:38:10   business practices were changed because they were you know of abusive monopoly [TS]

00:38:14   power in other cases they were things that we take as commonplace today and [TS]

00:38:18   operating system is a browser is right but but the you know the consent decree [TS]

00:38:24   said you have to separate the the browser from the operating system and [TS]

00:38:29   you have to provide a mechanism for alternate browsers or malware [TS]

00:38:33   Microsoft's argument at the trial that that the browser belongs as part of the [TS]

00:38:39   operating system which was widely mocked expect you know but critics well and [TS]

00:38:44   they and they made the they made the argument in a very happy [TS]

00:38:48   handed fashion terrible demo by by Jim Allchin you know who it was a it was a [TS]

00:38:56   video tape deposition and they discovered afterwards and they the [TS]

00:39:00   government and David Boies in his team found that they had placed you know they [TS]

00:39:07   had cut things out of this video and when they got to see the whole thing it [TS]

00:39:14   you know it it kind of changed the story and and and even made them look worse it [TS]

00:39:19   made them look dishonest like they were trying to hide something when they there [TS]

00:39:22   was actually a legitimate story that had the truth on their site had the truth on [TS]

00:39:27   their site and they but the but the but that early DNA was win at any cost which [TS]

00:39:34   is what got them in trouble and I think so I think now a lot of people still [TS]

00:39:38   have the belief that Microsoft this is cutthroat [TS]

00:39:42   win at any cost company and they have this this image of the you know the [TS]

00:39:46   hard-charging rule busting Microsoft of the nineties but the the Microsoft that [TS]

00:39:52   I know from [TS]

00:39:54   in the last eight to ten years is one that is hypersensitive to rules and [TS]

00:40:02   legal processes and will bend over the other direction to avoid the appearance [TS]

00:40:09   and even then they still get nailed in the EU for things that they thought they [TS]

00:40:17   had covered [TS]

00:40:20   one of the ways clearly that Microsoft is different from Apple and that this [TS]

00:40:26   conference is very different from WBC is that just the mere fact that you're [TS]

00:40:31   still here this is day two of the conference there's a couple of press [TS]

00:40:34   from Drexel recording the show and one of the president's but there's a press [TS]

00:40:37   room next door in the press room next door so you been here for two days right [TS]

00:40:42   here all day at WWDC when you have a press badge you come to the morning [TS]

00:40:47   keynote which is only 90 minutes Microsoft yesterday's keno could have [TS]

00:40:56   been I think they could have cut the the that the big sequence with Joe Belfiore [TS]

00:41:02   playing the the giant piano connected to a telnet window that was you know a [TS]

00:41:10   little weird but you the press comes in there's a ninety-minute keynote that is [TS]

00:41:14   largely devoid of technical information they date segregate there is like it's [TS]

00:41:19   they don't call it a keynote but there's affectively after lunch on day one hears [TS]

00:41:24   the tech keno and here's where we're going to show Xcode and we're going to [TS]

00:41:27   show source code and we're gonna do nerdy stuff but the morning keynote is [TS]

00:41:32   very very layperson consumer II and they flush Moscow me that mean you're out I [TS]

00:41:39   keynote is over everybody's out including badge holders everybody's out [TS]

00:41:44   and that's to make sure all the press her out and then you don't you can't get [TS]

00:41:48   back in once that morning keynote is over and you go down the escalator your [TS]

00:41:52   have paid for a developer's badge right and you can go into the sessions right [TS]

00:41:56   so that's why I i last couple of years I've done that but I paper is not [TS]

00:42:00   included in a press badge for you develop a relationship and you get in [TS]

00:42:05   for free but to come to anything else the rest of the week you need a paid bad [TS]

00:42:10   and then fact you know and if anybody suspect that maybe they help me or [TS]

00:42:14   something I think that they don't like it when press people buy them cause I [TS]

00:42:18   don't you know you're under NDA everything's under Indiana but the you [TS]

00:42:23   know what they think what's the point why the press coming into these things [TS]

00:42:26   unless they want to write about it we don't want to write about it [TS]

00:42:29   get break yeah I mean there there again is a difference in to sort of the [TS]

00:42:35   institutional mentality of the of the two companies so the interesting thing [TS]

00:42:41   about WWDC I've never been to one but you know if watchdog I watched them the [TS]

00:42:48   light streams of them [TS]

00:42:50   Apple is primarily a consumer company and so that keynote is almost a [TS]

00:42:55   commercial you know and you know take you take place specially when steve Jobs [TS]

00:43:01   was was doing the things and then the developer stuff is like don't look [TS]

00:43:06   behind the curtain stuff you don't you don't really want consumers to know [TS]

00:43:11   about this stuff because you wanted to be magical microsoft saying first of all [TS]

00:43:16   it's primarily business-focused although it you know if they would like to know [TS]

00:43:24   Xbox of course is is a great consumer success and they would like the new PC [TS]

00:43:31   form factors to be consumer success as well but when you get right down to it [TS]

00:43:35   most of the developers here are writing software for business users for you know [TS]

00:43:41   sometimes for internal enterprise apps and stuff and so that you get their [TS]

00:43:46   consumers versus business thing you also have the open persist secret thing and [TS]

00:43:52   Apple thrives on you know it's it's consumer business is one of its key [TS]

00:43:59   strategic advantages is its ability to keep a secret and you know Microsoft has [TS]

00:44:04   tried that in the last couple of years and it's backfired [TS]

00:44:08   you know you really and so will one thing that we have seen this week here [TS]

00:44:12   is more of a willingness to talk about the future to outline roadmaps even if [TS]

00:44:18   they don't have dates on them at least you know this is going to continue to be [TS]

00:44:22   supported this thing is coming in in a future update to Windows but we want to [TS]

00:44:28   tell you exactly when but you can look forward to it and so you're seeing a [TS]

00:44:32   little bit more of that now and that's really you know it has to be especially [TS]

00:44:36   for that cross device cross-platform [TS]

00:44:40   world you have to be have to be more open secrecy just isn't going to work so [TS]

00:44:45   you know best example of some Microsoft came to me and they knew that was coming [TS]

00:44:51   for the thing with Vestberg and said hey would you like to do your podcast here [TS]

00:44:59   and you know people will give you a room will give you Mike will give you beer [TS]

00:45:03   and there is no other strings attached it wasn't like here's what we want to [TS]

00:45:07   talk about it is what you can do what they like the odds of Apple to see what [TS]

00:45:16   they offered to me but the odds that like they're gonna say would you like to [TS]

00:45:20   do it from within 30 Wednesday of every day VDC [TS]

00:45:28   I'd say that's when the meteor hits disco light and humid you should [TS]

00:45:33   immediately call your broker in short Apple because clearly something [TS]

00:45:38   seriously wrong [TS]

00:45:39   yeah just fundamental differences very different now a word from our Sponsors [TS]

00:45:50   John again interrupting just to tell you about another one of our great sponsors [TS]

00:45:55   want to tell you about branch fire I just like a team this week with the [TS]

00:46:00   sponsors everybody's on fireweed Backblaze now we have branch fire but [TS]

00:46:06   don't get them confused totally different company branch fire is a [TS]

00:46:10   chicago-based startup dedicated to building software that helps people work [TS]

00:46:15   better their flagship product I a note 8 was the first PDF annotation app [TS]

00:46:20   developed for the iPad and it still right now today among the top [TS]

00:46:24   productivity apps on the App Store identity lets users read mark-up [TS]

00:46:30   organize and share documents right from their iPads over one million people [TS]

00:46:35   worldwide from students and teachers to Hollywood actors and screenwriters have [TS]

00:46:40   you used diet annotate to take their workflow paperless with killer features [TS]

00:46:46   an awesome support identity has become the productivity app of choice for [TS]

00:46:50   entrepreneurs and executives as well no start no surprise to me that it's an [TS]

00:46:56   iPad app I think if there's one area where the iPad really stands out is it [TS]

00:47:00   just a tremendous device it's about you know compared to iPhones and even max is [TS]

00:47:05   for reading PDFs because it is in your hands it's like the size of a piece of [TS]

00:47:11   paper and PPT pdf you know sort of any now by 11 or those of you in your up [TS]

00:47:16   with you guys call it a day for roughly that size device and it just is like a [TS]

00:47:22   natural fit for PDF so no surprise to me that an app like I am dirty is such a [TS]

00:47:27   big hit with iOS iPad in particular users branch fire the team their hard [TS]

00:47:34   work on an exciting new mobile and desktop product called folia fola [TS]

00:47:40   you can find out more by following branch fire on Twitter that's at branch [TS]

00:47:45   fire there on Facebook too and you can go to www.brandtmorain.com [TS]

00:47:55   / get a note 8 branch fire dot com slash get I annotate to see the current app in [TS]

00:48:03   action a great app you use PDF seen you have an iPad you've got to check it out [TS]

00:48:08   really good at my thanks to branch fire [TS]

00:48:12   now back to the show so let's talk a little bit about some of the news from [TS]

00:48:17   this week I think to me that thing that stuck out the most is the most [TS]

00:48:21   intriguing to me is Windows Phone 8.1 right and I said well just short and [TS]

00:48:28   sweet has taken out of my phone but that to me it looks like from Windows 8 8.1 [TS]

00:48:34   has more new stuff than Windows 7 to Windows 8 yeah and what's fascinating [TS]

00:48:39   and I agree with that assessment completely and what's interesting is if [TS]

00:48:45   you I suspect if you went and talked to someone on the Windows Phone colonel [TS]

00:48:50   team they would be happy to explain to you why the kernel changes and [TS]

00:48:55   architecture changes from seven days where where where different effect they [TS]

00:49:00   broke compatibility [TS]

00:49:02   they you know they angered people with that one and so that was it it looked [TS]

00:49:07   like almost nothing from the user experience said but it was it was huge [TS]

00:49:13   from the kernel site but once you have that and again this is one of those [TS]

00:49:16   things they were talking they were talking about this three or four years [TS]

00:49:20   ago and now the user interface stuff is was made possible the rapid iteration in [TS]

00:49:28   user interface stuff was made possible by the work the kernel work that they [TS]

00:49:32   did back then and so the fact they're there now you know bringing the API's [TS]

00:49:37   together for iPhone and Windows tablets and Windows desktops and even Xbox so [TS]

00:49:47   that I think I think the official numbers like 92% in the API is her are [TS]

00:49:51   are common for those so basically you know the the pitch is that you can write [TS]

00:49:58   a nap [TS]

00:49:59   you know it's it's not exactly the old write once run anywhere thing but it's [TS]

00:50:04   right once and have a relatively easy time of porting it to other members of [TS]

00:50:11   the same family but the only differences are things that are obviously different [TS]

00:50:14   the screen is much bigger or if it's for the Xbox it's not touch it's going to be [TS]

00:50:20   you know an Xbox controller [TS]

00:50:22   and you have a cellular radio and one device its most likely not in any of [TS]

00:50:27   those other device if the actual differences in the devices that and so [TS]

00:50:31   and so one of my favorite one of one of my favorite apps I think you know when [TS]

00:50:36   it hits it should be a showcase app for Windows 8 in fact is one called tweety [TS]

00:50:41   i'm ok tweet team and written by a guy named Brandon panic just an amazing app [TS]

00:50:51   and I noticed he had taken his Windows 8 app yesterday he got the Windows Phone [TS]

00:50:58   8.1 bits in the in the SDK and today he was showing a running version of 20 a.m. [TS]

00:51:04   on Windows Phone a point one which is so I mean it's kind of a 88 validation of [TS]

00:51:12   their story clearly a flagship featured big big part of the keynote yesterday a [TS]

00:51:19   lot of the news is Cortana which of course inevitably was immediately [TS]

00:51:24   headlines everywhere serial killer which is the worst that killer that everybody [TS]

00:51:29   killer should be one of those words were if you did your CMS if you put it in the [TS]

00:51:32   headline it should immediately like auto corrected just zapped it just goes away [TS]

00:51:37   actually I think there should probably be you know low-voltage electric home on [TS]

00:51:43   the keys and it and it just gives you a shock so that you know it's like one of [TS]

00:51:48   those colors you know keeps you from keep your dog from running outside your [TS]

00:51:52   your property line to keep you from not typing that word again right you really [TS]

00:51:56   should not be able to put killer and a headline unless you can have your bike a [TS]

00:52:01   police report that shows the shock and anyway and I think that's a 2006 if you [TS]

00:52:10   look at it for 10 seconds you might say no serious court time well they're both [TS]

00:52:15   sort of pulsing thing on the phone and and and a female voice but but really [TS]

00:52:21   court on what's interesting about Cortana is that it's sort of a fairly [TS]

00:52:27   artful mashup [TS]

00:52:29   of Siri and Google now because it has the you know a lot of it is you're [TS]

00:52:36   you're giving you you can give Cortana permission to access the you know your [TS]

00:52:43   schedule your email your text messages your your phonebook in in addresses and [TS]

00:52:50   on and on and on your browsing history and all of that stuff and and so you can [TS]

00:52:57   get Google now type smart notifications that you never you never had to [TS]

00:53:03   explicitly ask for delivered through a series like interface so that's kind of [TS]

00:53:08   you know that that i think is really the the innovation in it is is not it's [TS]

00:53:13   neither one nor the other yeah I think that it inevitably happens that whoever [TS]

00:53:21   the ship's first [TS]

00:53:22   can can claim to be ripped off going forward but the idea of voice driven [TS]

00:53:28   computing is not new and you know 60 series ship before Cortana and you know [TS]

00:53:34   Google now shifting between Google had something else [TS]

00:53:38   2001 ran and war games as you know as prior art one of one of the things that [TS]

00:53:46   that I thought was interesting about Cortana though and not a hundred percent [TS]

00:53:50   you know but I think my understanding the way it works though is that Cortana [TS]

00:53:55   runs largely or maybe even entirely on the device [TS]

00:53:59   correct which is a very [TS]

00:54:02   get Siri but compared to Google now where it's here's all of your [TS]

00:54:06   information sent to Google and most of the computer happens with Google Cloud [TS]

00:54:13   stop looking at your data and figuring this stuff out whereas with Cortana it's [TS]

00:54:18   on your phone and your emails and especially with the email thing so [TS]

00:54:21   Cortana is only allowed to read email on your phone and that cannot be [TS]

00:54:26   transmitted to the service and and so it's a fundamental [TS]

00:54:33   you know really a fundamental difference between the two services as you know [TS]

00:54:39   google says we want all of your information we wanted you know your [TS]

00:54:46   Google account allows you to put all of this on our servers and we will [TS]

00:54:53   aggregated and then and then and it's a black box at that point the other cause [TS]

00:54:59   the other interesting feature about Cortana that I'm not sure made it into [TS]

00:55:03   too many of the stories there is that there is an interface called court on [TS]

00:55:07   his notebook I saw that and quite so court on his notebook is taken from the [TS]

00:55:12   idea that apparently the developers of Cortana interviewed a bunch of actual [TS]

00:55:18   personal assistance of you know executives and said how do you keep your [TS]

00:55:26   boss looking smart and on schedule throughout the day and they said well we [TS]

00:55:31   have a notebook where we have all this stuff about him that we know about him [TS]

00:55:36   or her and and so they say they've they've replicated that thing there but [TS]

00:55:43   the the most salient feature of court on his notebook is the ability to say [TS]

00:55:48   remove that or include this thing that you didn't see so you have control over [TS]

00:55:57   the stuff that's in there now with most products like this where you give the [TS]

00:56:03   customer the ability to to tweak the thing you know we know from experience [TS]

00:56:08   that eighty to ninety percent of the people who use it will never look at [TS]

00:56:12   that but for the 10 percent or 15 or 20 for whom that's important it's really [TS]

00:56:18   important and the idea you can go in there and say I don't want you know I [TS]

00:56:24   just don't I don't want you to have that information at all I don't want that to [TS]

00:56:29   be part of my profile and you can do that [TS]

00:56:33   yeah it seems like a big difference and I'm really intrigued to see once it gets [TS]

00:56:36   out in the real world how people's reaction is to it because clearly that [TS]

00:56:41   that you know for better for worse than the story was serious [TS]

00:56:45   it was announced and it looked really cool and it ship and a lot of people [TS]

00:56:50   found clearly found that it didn't quite work as advertised [TS]

00:56:56   I think it's gone a lot but I think it's one of those things where yes clearly [TS]

00:56:59   they they pitched it in the nicest life but are you don't get it you don't get a [TS]

00:57:05   second chance to make a first impression exactly it's gotten noticeably better [TS]

00:57:09   over the last two years but in little tiny you know the way that that but you [TS]

00:57:15   know cloud stuff gets better [TS]

00:57:16   little bit here but they're a little bit faster here you know the big you know [TS]

00:57:21   they call it series but the series really the personal assistant but Apple [TS]

00:57:26   cause it's eerie when you do the text to speech or speech to text [TS]

00:57:31   dictation that works so much better than it did when they ship like when I'm in [TS]

00:57:35   its winter in my hand is cold and I'm walking in philadelphia and I want a [TS]

00:57:39   quick dictator text to my wife or something works so good it really does [TS]

00:57:44   but it's like too late they don't get credit for it now because you know I [TS]

00:57:49   think the other difference between the two things and you know another thing [TS]

00:57:54   that probably didn't make it into too many of the news stories today is that [TS]

00:57:58   Cortana is extensible so so third party apps can look into court on it and and [TS]

00:58:08   so you know there's API is for you know for a nap to be able to have Cortana as [TS]

00:58:17   a as a friend and right and so it's officially beta they're calling it betta [TS]

00:58:21   they're launching it is in beta right when the ship as part of a one right now [TS]

00:58:26   it's cuz Apple called Siri beta 2 I think it's just a way of saying look [TS]

00:58:29   this stuff might not work great too we have a couple months under are well I [TS]

00:58:35   think you know Google did how long with Gmail Google is your Google searches [TS]

00:58:42   don't [TS]

00:58:43   but they're going to definitely going to be able to developer extensibility [TS]

00:58:52   because Syria's not developer sensible at all there is no there is no [TS]

00:58:56   integration with third-party apps so even if Apple announces it at WWDC this [TS]

00:59:02   year they just say it's gonna be first week in June that's not gonna ship until [TS]

00:59:06   the new OS comes out which is probably going to be on the phone you know if [TS]

00:59:10   they stick to the same schedule as last year in September [TS]

00:59:13   you know and you know your time is gonna be out before then and there you know a [TS]

00:59:18   virgin this sort of idea Voice driven right personal assistant but they're [TS]

00:59:24   gonna your Microsoft gonna have third-party integration before out and [TS]

00:59:27   that's if Apple does it this year [TS]

00:59:29   you know and and there's another thing that Cortana has that that that syria [TS]

00:59:35   doesn't that Google now does and it's kind of it's kind of a big punch in the [TS]

00:59:43   nose to everyone who all these pundits who were saying Microsoft needs to get [TS]

00:59:49   rid of being being just a drag just a drag on the business basically being is [TS]

00:59:55   you know Cortana is sits on top of being in being is not just a search engine [TS]

01:00:03   that delivers a list of results it has that you know there's a there's a [TS]

01:00:08   tremendous amount of semantic knowledge in the in the back end so if you ask for [TS]

01:00:13   you know what's the best restaurant that's within a 10 minute walk of me you [TS]

01:00:20   know it can pull that up from Yelp in in in in give you that answer if you you [TS]

01:00:28   know it has it has access to a lot of sources of data [TS]

01:00:32   you know the kind of things that appear in the infobox of the search results [TS]

01:00:37   page that it can also use as answers to the question that you asked it and so [TS]

01:00:44   those become very competitive advantages that are there because of the of the [TS]

01:00:51   so-called losses that Microsoft [TS]

01:00:54   on paying for all these years if you think of being as you know being dot com [TS]

01:00:59   purchase google.com those losses if you think of that as a sort of product a [TS]

01:01:07   consumer product that was sort of helping to pay for the incredible [TS]

01:01:13   investment in information on the back in that was ultimately going to drive a [TS]

01:01:19   service like Rotana then it's not a loss it's an investment it's all you know [TS]

01:01:24   seems like science fiction until we have it and it seems boring and we complain [TS]

01:01:28   about it but you know that that you said how from 2001 1968 you know we're [TS]

01:01:34   getting there you know we're getting there would you just talk to the [TS]

01:01:37   computer and the computer gives you answers and having something like being [TS]

01:01:42   as gives Microsoft a serious leg up over apple doesn't have bet and doesn't want [TS]

01:01:48   to use Google to do it right i mean Apple has already demonstrated with maps [TS]

01:01:54   that it wouldn't it would like to sever potentially life-threatening connections [TS]

01:02:01   you know because because if you know maps are such a crucial component of a [TS]

01:02:07   mobile device Apple does a little bit they're not totally going it alone [TS]

01:02:12   Syria has integration with wool from Alpha for a lot of stuffs AVIC reflect [TS]

01:02:17   stock quotes I think she goes to Wolfram Alpha maybe not sure might just go to [TS]

01:02:21   the widget but I know you just do math if you just ask him a few questions she [TS]

01:02:24   goes to Wolfram Alpha results come back from them but I can't help but think it [TS]

01:02:30   is one of the thoughts I've had the last two days here at building again to like [TS]

01:02:35   the iPhone introduction in 2007 and you know Steve Jobs introduced it was [TS]

01:02:41   amazing the audience was blown away and they said now an invite some friends up [TS]

01:02:44   there in this first friend to come out with Eric Schmidt then borden how did [TS]

01:02:49   each other and they're laughing and it was all smiles [TS]

01:02:52   and you know the gist of what Steve Jobs said is a Google they're great friend [TS]

01:02:57   and may do some amazing things we do totally different amazing things we [TS]

01:03:01   build these great little devices with really beautiful user interface they do [TS]

01:03:05   search and they've got maps and they've got this YouTube thing so it's just you [TS]

01:03:09   know use them for all that stuff that we don't worry about it [TS]

01:03:12   kumbaya right and then you know you all know how that worked out but I can't [TS]

01:03:16   help but feel like I'm the bill this week like you said that you know go back [TS]

01:03:19   to the Venn diagram thing like I know I cannot but think that there's like a no [TS]

01:03:23   harm done like Apple you can concentrate on what you do best if maybe you went to [TS]

01:03:31   your house at Microsoft the wall I don't think that such a bad idea [TS]

01:03:38   there's a little bit of the enemy of my enemy is my friend in there you know and [TS]

01:03:46   apple and microsoft were insufficiently different worlds and both faced you know [TS]

01:03:53   really brutal competition from Google and so there's always been this it's [TS]

01:03:59   always been remarkable to me as much as the tech press in our readers might like [TS]

01:04:06   to think that there's this you know blood war between the two camps it's [TS]

01:04:12   really that that has anything for a long time and I think but I think it is in [TS]

01:04:17   like you said in very different ways it is true though between both companies in [TS]

01:04:20   Google I mean any enemies may be a strong word but you know if we want to [TS]

01:04:25   use that analogy sort of go little over the top it's true many nights I think [TS]

01:04:30   Google's or Apple's biggest enemy as Google and Microsoft's biggest enemy is [TS]

01:04:34   Google well on the Windows platform google has been obstinate about refusing [TS]

01:04:44   to support Windows 8 there is exactly one Google app for Windows a Google [TS]

01:04:50   search it has some other stuff embedded in it so you can use it there but [TS]

01:04:54   there's no Gmail app there's no to there's no YouTube if there's a whole [TS]

01:04:59   you know you could write a sitcom about the whole YouTube [TS]

01:05:03   controversy their Google cannot ignore the Mac and it cannot ignore the iPad [TS]

01:05:10   because the overlap between their two audiences are you know it's it's people [TS]

01:05:16   use Apple branded hardware and Google branded services and that's you know [TS]

01:05:22   there's a huge influential and wealthy portion of the population especially in [TS]

01:05:28   the united states that that that that defines but you know so Google can't [TS]

01:05:33   afford to alienate Apple users too much but they can afford to piss off when [TS]

01:05:41   does she is and hopefully drive them you know they pay its not a lot of ways it [TS]

01:05:48   seems largely spiteful like part of the sitcom you describe is that microsoft [TS]

01:05:52   said ok we'll write dia and they wrote a YouTube app and then Google you know [TS]

01:05:58   found an excuse the API's way and said no even though there was you know we're [TS]

01:06:04   not even asking them to do the work we made yet [TS]

01:06:06   yeah [TS]

01:06:11   now a word from our Sponsors hey John Deere last sponsor gonna take a moment [TS]

01:06:17   here and thank our good friends at [TS]

01:06:20   for sponsoring this episode of the show is an internet you'll actually like that [TS]

01:06:28   slogan because just gets to the heart of everything that makes it look different [TS]

01:06:32   you say internet and you think enterprise software and you think things [TS]

01:06:35   like SharePoint and you think these monstrosities that were designed in 1997 [TS]

01:06:41   and still look like a glue is totally modern looks really cool looks really [TS]

01:06:47   like the way something like an Internet should look today and has all sorts of [TS]

01:06:52   great features and it's really really easy to set up and use they have [TS]

01:06:56   integrated apps like shared calendars twitter-like microblogs file sharing [TS]

01:07:02   more everything you need is built in and everything is social so your team can [TS]

01:07:08   just collaborate you want to share files you can easily share file when I have a [TS]

01:07:11   little twitter-like private conversation just your team easy they've got those [TS]

01:07:17   right there for you so you upload a file rewrite and internal blog post employees [TS]

01:07:23   can share it [TS]

01:07:24   comment on it rate it like it even manage versions the ideas to get your [TS]

01:07:28   whole company communicating better your company has a legacy internet or [TS]

01:07:33   customer community built on SharePoint in particular you should give it a try [TS]

01:07:39   they have a report on our website you can look for it [TS]

01:07:42   igloo software 2.com and they've been linked to it and it outlines the five [TS]

01:07:48   main areas that SharePoint falls short compared to how it does it better [TS]

01:07:54   where do you go to find out more easy going to www.quikr.com / the talk show a [TS]

01:08:04   good software dot com slash the talk show [TS]

01:08:09   and when you go there you can follow the link you can find the SharePoint [TS]

01:08:12   comparison white paper and all sorts of other interesting stuff get started [TS]

01:08:19   free of charge for up to 10 people you can just keep using it free of charge [TS]

01:08:22   unbelievably great deal if you have a really small team you'll never have to [TS]

01:08:27   pay the money you have a bigger team you can start testing it with up to 10 [TS]

01:08:31   people before you need to pay unbelievable deal very very happy users [TS]

01:08:36   I love these guys you got you should check it out [TS]

01:08:39   really really great company thank you now back to the show [TS]

01:08:46   the other interesting thing about Windows Phone 8.1 is and I found this [TS]

01:08:51   little surprising I guess it's a shocking but surprising is that [TS]

01:08:54   Microsoft announced that on nine inch tablets and smart phones it is now going [TS]

01:09:00   to be free [TS]

01:09:01   where there is a version of it yeah that's the one I you know I need to go [TS]

01:09:04   back in and read the transcript and watch that again because it might be one [TS]

01:09:08   of those things where the devil is in is in the details there I think I think [TS]

01:09:12   they said something like there's going to be a you know will make a Windows [TS]

01:09:17   that will be free [TS]

01:09:19   you know that I think $0 was what they put on the on the slide on the screen [TS]

01:09:24   and it was one of those were you say it the right way and and everyone you know [TS]

01:09:30   the classic magician's trick misdirection focus on the $0 out there [TS]

01:09:33   and miss the cabinet there it may be that this is the ad-supported version of [TS]

01:09:39   Windows that that they've talked about talked about through the years but you [TS]

01:09:47   know whether it's that or whether it's something else [TS]

01:09:49   the fact is that they've basically that is a direct shot across the bow of [TS]

01:09:54   Android right that is nothing to do with Apple and the iPhone and everything to [TS]

01:09:59   do with Android and to me it's one of the biggest mysteries and all of [TS]

01:10:03   marketing any field tech or whatever but certainly texts were obsessed over more [TS]

01:10:07   is is when certain products either seemingly get a lot more traction than [TS]

01:10:15   they seem to deserve or the flip side when there's a product that doesn't seem [TS]

01:10:20   to get the traction it deserves in two ME Windows Phone absolute might just [TS]

01:10:26   saying that cuz I'm here to build I really do think it's a far better [TS]

01:10:29   product than its market share [TS]

01:10:32   indicates like not even close and it just seems like the phone market is so [TS]

01:10:37   weird and and even on just the Android side alone just Android it just like HTC [TS]

01:10:44   makes what are clearly to me the most beautiful Android phones and they're [TS]

01:10:49   just getting killed by Samsung and even if it's you know you could make an [TS]

01:10:54   argument that Samsung for technical reasons and design [TS]

01:10:58   ins and whatever deserves a market share lead-in and write it just seems to me [TS]

01:11:02   that on the merits it whatever the market share lead a deserved it is [TS]

01:11:07   nowhere near what they have which is pretty much all of the profits and Amber [TS]

01:11:11   yeah they've basically Apple has has most of the profits in the mobile market [TS]

01:11:16   and then Samsung has the rest is a Windows Phone get so what what do you [TS]

01:11:27   think the problem is life why do you think it isn't more successful well so [TS]

01:11:33   there's three there's actually three phone markets in the world there's the [TS]

01:11:38   United States which is dominated by you know and and oligopoly of of carriers [TS]

01:11:46   and is is driven by carrier subsidies and and and weird agreement so there's [TS]

01:11:53   no means is actually a disincentive for people to buy unlocked handsets they're [TS]

01:11:59   expensive and you still have to pay the exact same amount for the for the [TS]

01:12:03   service anyway so there's the us- market and then there's the developed market [TS]

01:12:08   and rest of the world where most phones are unlocked and you have your choice [TS]

01:12:12   but there but they're fairly expensive and then there's where the next billion [TS]

01:12:16   phones are going to come from in the emerging markets have you know India [TS]

01:12:20   China Africa Brazil you know all those all those places where there's no small [TS]

01:12:28   dollars per device and razor thin margins but the volume is so huge you [TS]

01:12:33   can make large amounts of money they're so basically in the you s all the market [TS]

01:12:38   forces have been distorted by the complete dominance of the carriers which [TS]

01:12:44   you know steve Jobs was able to actually break that somehow with it [TS]

01:12:49   thing that nobody else has ever been able to to duplicate and then in and and [TS]

01:12:55   so as a result you have [TS]

01:12:58   you know Apple and Samsung basically have all the deals with all the carriers [TS]

01:13:03   here and that's the us- then you get to you get to Europe for Windows Phone has [TS]

01:13:08   actually been fairly successful in in in in the UK its I think over 10% Italy in [TS]

01:13:17   Italy it's it's you know dominant in you know Romania several of the Eastern [TS]

01:13:24   European country singers pockets there where the the phones they sell for [TS]

01:13:30   significantly less than an Apple product of course and and there a better quality [TS]

01:13:37   than a great product and so the market says okay and so they they reward that [TS]

01:13:42   there and then the real battle field is going to be in the emerging markets now [TS]

01:13:47   where you know I think and I think Apple's just gonna say if I will skim up [TS]

01:13:52   that up with the wealthy buyers in these markets will you know will buy will will [TS]

01:13:58   pay they're the same ones who were coming to the us- buying the products [TS]

01:14:04   and then bringing them back home will finally be able to buy them directly [TS]

01:14:07   there and then you'll have this you know basically a battle royal between [TS]

01:14:12   manufacturers who are building phones based on Android and those who are [TS]

01:14:18   building phones based on the Windows operating system and now that it's free [TS]

01:14:23   the competitive landscape for them will change significantly so do you are you [TS]

01:14:29   optimistic about Windows Phone but well optimistic is hard words isn't it I [TS]

01:14:34   don't think it's you know I think they're going to get to double-digit [TS]

01:14:39   market share worldwide that its you think it's gonna be disproportionate [TS]

01:14:43   around the world it's it's going to be disproportionate around the world [TS]

01:14:46   yeah I think it's going to be you know Microsoft it's Steve Ballmer used to say [TS]

01:14:52   you know the one thing about Microsoft as we keep coming to keep hammering at [TS]

01:14:58   you we won't let you know we we don't quit we don't give up and so you know [TS]

01:15:03   there's a lot of people out there saying you know Microsoft just fold its tent on [TS]

01:15:06   this phone [TS]

01:15:07   incas there you know they went from two and a half percent to 4 percent it took [TS]

01:15:11   like two years you know if you if you grind out the market share like that you [TS]

01:15:17   know you're you're never going to get back here your investment that thing [TS]

01:15:20   well no Xbox maybe proves otherwise [TS]

01:15:24   Xbox lost money big money for 47 years and now it's a you know it's a [TS]

01:15:33   successful device it's profitable on its own and has an ecosystem around it and [TS]

01:15:38   it has the same halo effect that Apple's always counted on for you know for [TS]

01:15:44   people to buy an iPod and then an iPhone and then maybe a Mac you know him become [TS]

01:15:49   a full member of the family that Xbox has played that role there so I don't [TS]

01:15:54   think that Microsoft is going to give up on on the Windows Phone thing you know [TS]

01:15:59   it's really a lot of institutional barriers to them getting significant [TS]

01:16:06   market share quickly and it is a weird to me like historical tables have turned [TS]

01:16:13   where two ME Windows Phone is the classic Mac OS from like the late [TS]

01:16:19   nineties when there's people who really love it [TS]

01:16:23   for the design you know and that they can speak very eloquently I really just [TS]

01:16:27   like the way it works it clicks in my brain which is how I felt as a magnet [TS]

01:16:32   for all that time and yet you're like the 3rd or 4th platform that developer [TS]

01:16:38   acts hits when they're shipping an app that sucks right yeah so you know if you [TS]

01:16:43   wanna call and over in San Francisco you're not going to do it on your [TS]

01:16:47   Windows Phone I didn't even know that so they don't even have an uber now you [TS]

01:16:51   know there's a think you have to go to the mobile site and calm [TS]

01:16:56   well welcome to they would have made a lot of money this week [TS]

01:17:00   I think being a Mac user 1998 exactly as you know I'm feeling whatever the [TS]

01:17:08   opposite of schadenfreude his but I sympathize and I do I i think it's you [TS]

01:17:14   know I even saw on some of the the demyans and the press room there's a [TS]

01:17:17   beta of Instagram and smooth I mean that's one thing Microsoft has always [TS]

01:17:22   done well as make things run fast and they're totally hitting that you know 60 [TS]

01:17:29   frames per second [TS]

01:17:30   really nice animation no lag no like and like you stop and get it stops it you [TS]

01:17:36   know it just has that iPhone qualities scrolling and and stuff like that which [TS]

01:17:41   I have never seen one hundred CSO one of the interesting things was looking at [TS]

01:17:46   some numbers when I was on the plane coming up here the most recent Gartner [TS]

01:17:51   projections and and so if you take they did you know phones tablets PCs and [TS]

01:18:00   hybrid devices ok so we take pics phones out of there cuz it's a billion and it [TS]

01:18:07   ended weirdly distorts the market because in in some of those emerging [TS]

01:18:10   markets the only device that people have a bit cheap smartphone but take take [TS]

01:18:17   that out of there and you actually see you think you know the the PC is dying [TS]

01:18:20   but but what's actually happening is that the you combine tablets and [TS]

01:18:27   conventional desktop and notebook PCs in these new hybrid things which ever you [TS]

01:18:32   know it's a tablet and then you took a keyboard on to it and it's a laptop and [TS]

01:18:37   then you disconnected and it's a template again and if you combine those [TS]

01:18:40   three things you get between 2013 and 2015 you get a market that's growing at [TS]

01:18:47   about three to five percent a year which is not an unhealthy [TS]

01:18:51   we've got News two things growing at at hyperspeed but that's not an unhealthy [TS]

01:18:56   growth rate but what's interesting is that the boring PC segment is the one [TS]

01:19:02   that shrinking and the tablet segment is growing [TS]

01:19:06   but much more modestly than it did after the the iPad's initial success and the [TS]

01:19:14   category that seems to be growing fastest this going to garner at least [TS]

01:19:18   says will will grow fastest in that time is this category of hybrids touch-based [TS]

01:19:24   devices that you know like like the surface but also like the HP Envy or [TS]

01:19:29   Asus Transformer t100 in these things and you know that to me that so 21 [TS]

01:19:36   million of those sold in 2013 sixty-plus million of those will be sold next year [TS]

01:19:43   that the story I've heard it's one of those things where it's all you can make [TS]

01:19:48   up the store you can't prove it but the story I've heard on that is you know [TS]

01:19:51   what wire tablet sales seemingly not as fast as like iPhone in an iPhone like [TS]

01:19:57   smartphones why is that the sales graph different and I think the just a bit [TS]

01:20:03   that I've heard I believe it it it it rings true is it's two things one the [TS]

01:20:07   phone market is so distorted by the contracts you know you buy for two years [TS]

01:20:14   and it's at a ridiculously low prices your contracts out there like the money [TS]

01:20:17   with $199 and get a brand new you know or ninety 90 you know and why not and [TS]

01:20:24   you tend to abuse your phone more thing you know it's a small US most likely get [TS]

01:20:29   dropped it does get dinged up and you might argue know a lot of people even if [TS]

01:20:33   they take reasonable care of it might actually need a new one for the battery [TS]

01:20:36   might have died hold as much of a Chargers with tablets people treat em [TS]

01:20:41   like they treat PCs which is more or less a day by one and use it till it [TS]

01:20:44   breaks right knee replacement cycle if if they're like PCs people are going to [TS]

01:20:49   think of them as a five-year purchased and the the the iPad hasn't even the [TS]

01:20:57   original iPad's aren't even five years old yet know there are they might not [TS]

01:21:01   even be four years old yet [TS]

01:21:03   2010 yeah it was at 11 2010 yeah my parents to have an original one and get [TS]

01:21:11   a new in early spring [TS]

01:21:12   knew it works ya na na 350 person it's the last thing I wanted to talk about is [TS]

01:21:19   I noticed yesterday when I saw an impression that you were working on one [TS]

01:21:24   of these devices and I you know actually two of them right you worry if you are [TS]

01:21:28   upgrading but and I thought that was interesting [TS]

01:21:33   you know that it's you know you don't just cover microsoft and I i'm you know [TS]

01:21:36   from knowing you from reading your work I don't think you're using one just [TS]

01:21:38   because you know that's what might decide it seems that you are a proponent [TS]

01:21:42   of the surface tablets [TS]

01:21:44   well like I you know it's it's an interesting device part of my decision [TS]

01:21:50   it's it's funny you ask that because when I came out here remember Mission [TS]

01:21:55   Impossible series so at the beginning of Mission Impossible the series he you [TS]

01:22:02   know Peter Graves when it opened this manila folder filled with pictures and [TS]

01:22:08   he you know bring them out and put it was always the same ones that he chose [TS]

01:22:12   but he'd set the ones that he chose a side so when I was on my way here had [TS]

01:22:17   this big lab bench in my office and had about eight devices on there to choose [TS]

01:22:23   from and had a ship which ones am I going to bring with me as I have they [TS]

01:22:28   were like 48 inch tablets and a couple of notebooks and a couple of circus [TS]

01:22:34   family devices and and then this Nokia this Nokia tablet so i said im only [TS]

01:22:42   gonna bring to see you know I want to see how they work and so they you know [TS]

01:22:48   the surface is especially the surface Pro two is you know it's a classic [TS]

01:22:56   example classic Microsoft thing you know they get it right on the 3rd generation [TS]

01:23:00   this is the second iteration and it's so much better than the original but it's [TS]

01:23:06   still you know there's just that there's a few things they can do so I think this [TS]

01:23:10   I think there's going to be a new rendition of it this year and [TS]

01:23:14   and that will be one where you go out they finally figured everything out and [TS]

01:23:18   they and they fixed it and I had an iPad there too and I was sorely tempted to [TS]

01:23:23   bring the iPad and trying new things in office for the office for the iPad but [TS]

01:23:29   it didn't it wound up in the coal pile and you think part of it too is more [TS]

01:23:34   than just hardware though it's it ties in with Windows 8.1 which you know key [TS]

01:23:40   feature is a renewed focus on keyboard and mouse and met by mouse I mean [TS]

01:23:46   trackpad you know anything that moves the cursor around mouse yeah whatever it [TS]

01:23:50   it you know it really deals with that that what were they thinking kind of [TS]

01:23:56   objection to the original one where they just tried to hide all signs of the [TS]

01:23:59   desktop even though it was there and and and and greatly improved yes its members [TS]

01:24:05   pro to basically I've been using it almost exclusively as if it were a as it [TS]

01:24:12   were a laptop but it is you know it is kinda nice it went on and on the plane I [TS]

01:24:17   can just attach the keyboard from it and send it in and watch a movie on it I [TS]

01:24:22   think the goal of those hybrid devices you know the theoretical goal is that [TS]

01:24:28   instead of having to carry a MacBook and an iPad you can just carry one and it [TS]

01:24:35   becomes it it it it changes personality to suit that the task that you know I'm [TS]

01:24:40   laughing because that's packed the church of course look at ya and tell the [TS]

01:24:45   idea the idea is that you know that it you if you had something if you had an [TS]

01:24:50   iPad that could you know magically run OS 10 it had a keyboard attached to it [TS]

01:24:55   when you take it off and it's you know and it's running iOS so what did you [TS]

01:25:00   have in the keynote when you were in the keynote hall what did you using a laptop [TS]

01:25:06   or were you using I was using the surface primarily because it has the [TS]

01:25:11   things they fixed in version to that made it better than version one is this [TS]

01:25:15   thing called the tape cover the cliques in and it has an illuminated keyboard in [TS]

01:25:20   its usable on a laptop that's why I asked [TS]

01:25:24   you know what the press well first of all the press had they gave us tables [TS]

01:25:28   they never give us give us they gave us tables and wired Ethernet connections in [TS]

01:25:35   in [TS]

01:25:36   I think there is like free beer and everything but but no but I have been [TS]

01:25:43   using that on with the with the type cover it actually does work on your lap [TS]

01:25:48   as a as a laptop with the first version the first edition which only had one [TS]

01:25:52   stop for the little hinge that comes out from the back there [TS]

01:25:57   you know you sort of head to play statue if you if you sit just right and you [TS]

01:26:04   don't move you can actually type on this thing but it was it it flexed and and [TS]

01:26:10   and it wasn't a comfortable experience this is more so it actually feels a lot [TS]

01:26:14   like feels a lot like a laptop if I'm at home I will either have a tablet which [TS]

01:26:21   you know could be a Windows tablet or an iPad if I'm you know sitting on the [TS]

01:26:25   couch or a notebook I want you know the surface doesn't know I won't use the [TS]

01:26:30   service in that mode I haven't heard a word you said last three minutes cause [TS]

01:26:34   all I can keep thinking about is how nice of you to have a table [TS]