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Cortex 35: An Episode Out of Time 2: Out of Timer

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0:00:00so listen ian has found the perfect new

0:00:02game for you

0:00:03oh yes what is it so you know in the

0:00:05past you spoken about the fact that you

0:00:07like games that feel like work you know

0:00:09like you like truck simulator 2

0:00:11factorial like work games

0:00:13yeah their work simulator games in my

0:00:15mind what we found the ultimate cgpgrey

0:00:17work simulator is called youtubers life

0:00:20you to his life is the ultimate life

0:00:23simulation tycoon via game in which you

0:00:25become the world's greatest video

0:00:26blogger in history edit videos

0:00:28expand the amount of fans and turn

0:00:30yourself into a wealthy fellow that

0:00:34sounds horrible

0:00:34super day at work imitates life imitates

0:00:37work imitates life that little little

0:00:40too close to home

0:00:41the screenshots are amazing because they

0:00:43show a bedroom with an unmade bed and

0:00:46somebody working on a computer

0:00:48remarkably by total coincidence i

0:00:51watched PewDiePie do a playthrough of

0:00:54YouTube simulator just yesterday

0:00:58oh really it showed up in that here's

0:01:00what YouTube thinks you should watch

0:01:02section they were really write the right

0:01:05like that sometimes that YouTube thing

0:01:06freaks me out because they're like oh

0:01:08yeah i know i would like to see that

0:01:10video thank you so much YouTube right

0:01:12well this this one strike me as

0:01:14particularly funny because it's it's i

0:01:16am not subscribed to PewDiePie i have

0:01:19probably watched fewer than five maybe

0:01:22ten of his videos ever and but youtube

0:01:26just knows right there little algorithms

0:01:28their data algorithms simply know hey

0:01:30we're going to suggest you a peopie

0:01:33video that you cannot possibly resist on

0:01:35clicking and they were correct and i

0:01:36clicked it and i watched it and they

0:01:38were right it was very entertaining

0:01:39video but what do you think of youtubers

0:01:43life I will never play a game like that

0:01:46it looks it looks terrible it looks like

0:01:49the kind of work simulator that I hate

0:01:51which is not really work simulator it's

0:01:53just the game randomly rewarding you at

0:01:56times with stuff i don't know I I have

0:02:00no interest in ever playing that game

0:02:01but i can recommend PewDiePie's video

0:02:03where he plays that game like he's very

0:02:06good

0:02:06he's very funny and he turns it into a

0:02:09bizarre meta commentary on his own life

0:02:13as a youtuber so of course he ends up

0:02:15making a little character that looks

0:02:17just like him and just makes all of

0:02:20these comments about feeding the Machine

0:02:22and gotta keep going there's a reason

0:02:24that guys number one youtuber I wouldn't

0:02:26watch all these videos they're not all

0:02:27for me but anybody who thinks he's just

0:02:30an idiot playing video games in his room

0:02:32like you don't understand what this man

0:02:33is doing

0:02:34you don't understand what he's doing

0:02:35when we talk about that talent thing and

0:02:38when we were talking about a long time

0:02:39ago about having that spark and we use

0:02:42them k PhD is a an example of that from

0:02:44his first video right right little

0:02:46little tiny twelve-year-old mkbhd yeah

0:02:49PewDiePie doesn't really have a sparky

0:02:51has a fire

0:02:52yeah like that man there's there is no

0:02:54doubt absolutely no doubt whether you

0:02:56don't like these videos are not you

0:02:58cannot deny that they are well made

0:02:59their well made and that he is just

0:03:03engaging I'm engaging in this way that

0:03:06is difficult to describe

0:03:07yep yes really youtube algorithms you

0:03:11know you know what I wanted even and I

0:03:13didn't know what I wanted and what I

0:03:15wanted was watching the number one

0:03:16youtuber play youtube simulation game

0:03:19this is an episode out of time

0:03:22indeed it is Mike because from my

0:03:25perspective this is insanity because i

0:03:29just spoke to you yesterday we did we

0:03:32just did an episode yesterday we did our

0:03:34cortex versuri episode yesterday for

0:03:38people who are interested in the cortex

0:03:44annuity of the show

0:03:45I'm so proud of you right now but then

0:03:48again in service and this episode you

0:03:54are probably listening to sometime in

0:03:56july maybe august i don't even know

0:03:59where this is going to happen so people

0:04:01will be listening to this at some point

0:04:03in the late summer

0:04:05mhm months after we are recording it yep

0:04:09so this is what will be passed me

0:04:14talking to you after what is intended to

0:04:17be a very long very busy very unusual

0:04:22summer for me which is part of the

0:04:23reason why

0:04:24you're recording this well ahead of time

0:04:26but it makes the verb usage here seem

0:04:30very strange like in the future i will

0:04:33have had done things that we will

0:04:37certainly have had already talked about

0:04:40Anya shows we will record but from the

0:04:44perspective of people listening we've

0:04:46already recorded and they have already

0:04:47listened to because it's very confusing

0:04:49because in theory now looking to the

0:04:54future so that people can judge our

0:04:56predictions we have participated in real

0:05:00icon to gether right we will have been

0:05:02to relay con you have been to VidCon i

0:05:06will have been to VidCon we will is

0:05:08recorded off first in-person episode of

0:05:11cortex

0:05:11that's right as well and now we are

0:05:15approaching the second annual court xmas

0:05:18very confusing it is all very confusing

0:05:22and the very fact that i'm going to

0:05:25relay khan and the very fact that i'm

0:05:27going to VidCon are things that i have

0:05:29stated publicly nowhere at this stage

0:05:32which is what makes it all the more

0:05:33exciting dimension

0:05:35it's like a fun little secret at this

0:05:38moment I i may not even mention anything

0:05:41about being at VidCon until after I have

0:05:44left I don't know we'll have to see him

0:05:46listener will already know if I did or

0:05:47didn't yep haha but that might be a

0:05:50surprise so yeah it's it's just it's a

0:05:54strange thing but we are trying to plan

0:05:57in advance for what is going to be a a

0:06:00busy summer so the reason we are

0:06:02recording this is because there's going

0:06:04to be just a ton of stuff going on and I

0:06:08know that later in the summer in

0:06:10addition to all of this crazy business

0:06:11stuff i also have a ton of family stuff

0:06:14that I'm doing later in the summer so

0:06:16this very morning for this episode I was

0:06:19actually telling up

0:06:20what is the theoretical number of

0:06:22flights that I am taking this summer and

0:06:24I haven't bought them that there's a

0:06:26there's a few events in a few things

0:06:27that are still a bit uncertain but i

0:06:29will be taking no fewer than eight and

0:06:32no more than 14 flights this summer

0:06:34why

0:06:34my blood yeah I know it's it is quite a

0:06:38lot but that is high a little while ago

0:06:42I said Mike we need it we need to talk

0:06:44about the summer cortex schedule and

0:06:47that is why this episode is happening

0:06:49right now also because mean you have

0:06:53been for something like this already so

0:06:56last year you were away for a lot of the

0:06:58summer and we didn't prepare for it and

0:07:02it was a nightmare yet last summer last

0:07:06summer was a bit of a disaster and very

0:07:08many ways for me probably one of the

0:07:10biggest ways was that somehow i don't

0:07:13really know how but you convinced me not

0:07:16only where we going to launch cortex

0:07:19last summer but we're also going to be

0:07:21doing weekly episodes which was insanity

0:07:24I don't know how you convinced me of

0:07:25this i don't know why past me would have

0:07:28agreed to such a thing but how was way

0:07:31way too many episodes to be doing at

0:07:35once but we tried and then we had to try

0:07:38and squeeze it into a schedule and you

0:07:41are on standby flights arriving at we're

0:07:43days it was it was a nightmare so we

0:07:47also we have learned together and are

0:07:49working together over the last year or

0:07:51so and we are now recording an episode

0:07:54about time

0:07:56yes that is what this episode is but

0:07:57there is an interesting lesson in there

0:07:59i think about the whole idea of this

0:08:02thing existing is that we are

0:08:04collaborating better now than we have

0:08:08before because we now understand the

0:08:11habits and patterns of each other and we

0:08:14are working to respect those so I know

0:08:19that you'll be traveling and you know

0:08:22that I want an episode right with with

0:08:24what Mike is trying to say here

0:08:26listeners is a respected Mike knows that

0:08:29i want a bunch of time off this summer

0:08:31not the michael has a bunch of episodes

0:08:33that summer we have these mutually

0:08:36incompatible desires and so we have

0:08:38compromised on one court xmas there was

0:08:42going to be one fewer episode of cortex

0:08:44the summer and also doing this episode

0:08:48code in advance so this is the thing

0:08:50this is the compromise that we have come

0:08:52to this is another one of those CEO to

0:08:55CEO discussions that we had that we've

0:08:57mentioned in the past which again I will

0:08:59underscore the importance of anybody who

0:09:02is self-employed working with

0:09:03self-employed people that it is very

0:09:05very useful to be able to have these

0:09:07conversations so useful so useful and we

0:09:10were able to come to an agreement

0:09:12because I wanted more episodes then

0:09:15we're doing and you wanted more time

0:09:16often you have so we can take me to a

0:09:20compromise

0:09:21uh-huh yes we did come to a compromise

0:09:23because as we may discuss later in the

0:09:26episode in theory i would just like the

0:09:28whole summer off i would like the whole

0:09:29summer off to LA and I can't eat right

0:09:34that's not how it looks right but that's

0:09:36what I mean right here and that is there

0:09:38are all of these various constraints and

0:09:40things in life i do also just want to

0:09:42again reiterate your point to anybody

0:09:44listening who is self-employed works

0:09:46with the people I i really think if you

0:09:50can try to introduce the the explicit

0:09:54language like that can we will say like

0:09:57we are talking CEO to co now like do

0:10:01that as a mode shift when you're having

0:10:04a business conversation with someone it

0:10:06is hard to express how much easier and

0:10:09clearer that makes things it really

0:10:12really does

0:10:13I i highly highly recommend anybody

0:10:16working with other people like trying to

0:10:18do that try to institute that as a

0:10:20company culture in both of your

0:10:22company's it's extraordinarily

0:10:23beneficial and just makes things much

0:10:25easier but yeah so in addition to this

0:10:27being a bit of a negotiation between the

0:10:29two of us

0:10:30this is also one of these cases for me

0:10:34where it's important to know yourself

0:10:38and i found myself as this summer was

0:10:43approaching really constantly thinking

0:10:47back towards last summer and just

0:10:50realizing how last summer was a bit of a

0:10:52disaster across all fronts like this

0:10:56summer I had a bunch of family

0:10:57responsibilities and also about

0:10:59of work responsibilities so there was

0:11:00cortex is also the Helena podcast is

0:11:03also the youtube videos that I did

0:11:04there's some other business stuff and

0:11:07also a bunch of family things and last

0:11:11summer i just did a frankly terrible job

0:11:14of trying to manage all of those things

0:11:16and as a result i had a kind of grumpy

0:11:19summer I felt that I was not doing

0:11:21necessarily really great with a lot of

0:11:24the business side of things and then I

0:11:26also felt that I wasn't doing really

0:11:28great with a lot of the family

0:11:29responsibilities like it was just torn

0:11:31between these two different worlds and

0:11:35not being able to give either that the

0:11:38time and the mental energy that they

0:11:41required and so I think this is this is

0:11:45such an important skill in life is to be

0:11:48able to look on a thing objectively

0:11:51evaluate yourself on it to recognize oh

0:11:54I didn't do very well last summer with

0:11:56these kinds of things and then think

0:11:58forward to the Future about what are the

0:12:00structural changes that can be done to

0:12:03improve the situation and so reducing

0:12:07the number of cortex episodes by one and

0:12:10also doing one in advance like we're

0:12:11doing now like that is one thing that is

0:12:13definitely happening and i'm doing a

0:12:15similar thing with hello internet i

0:12:18think one maybe two i still have to

0:12:21finalize it but there's going to be a

0:12:22few fewer episodes than would otherwise

0:12:25be normal

0:12:26over the course of the year during the

0:12:27summer and i'm also making a conscious

0:12:29decision like I do most summers to

0:12:31intentionally do one fewer video then in

0:12:35theory would come out over the same

0:12:38three-month span if i was working

0:12:40another point in the year and I feel

0:12:44like this is one of those times where

0:12:45well i have a bunch of things to do this

0:12:48summer in particular is going to be

0:12:50filled with a huge amount of social time

0:12:54and family time like I always find that

0:12:56very energy-intensive and so i am not

0:13:01like last year going to think i can just

0:13:03truck through this like normal i'm just

0:13:06i'm just going to keep doing all the

0:13:07amount of work that I normally do and

0:13:08i'm also going to have all of these

0:13:10other responsibilities

0:13:11and everything is going to be fine so no

0:13:13I'm going to learn from last year's

0:13:15experience and intentionally turn down

0:13:17the work dial so that hopefully the

0:13:21whole of the summer goes more smoothly

0:13:24than it did last time this episode of

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0:15:11show in the balance of all of that is

0:15:14time off right now understanding that

0:15:18you should be putting your efforts into

0:15:20the right places one of those places

0:15:21should be time off because if you work

0:15:24in

0:15:25Anthony you get time off and you get

0:15:28time off because there's a very good

0:15:30reason because everybody needs brakes

0:15:31right and in more traditional companies

0:15:35everybody takes it and it's all done and

0:15:37like when the company that I worked at

0:15:39you had to write it wasn't even a joke

0:15:42like this was just the thing you had to

0:15:44do and one of those brakes had to be two

0:15:46weeks right later like all things that

0:15:48like you had to do them and I know a lot

0:15:50more kind of new companies these days

0:15:53there are like these trends which on the

0:15:56face of it seemed quite good but

0:15:57actually work out to not be too great

0:15:59like unlimited vacation time you

0:16:01familiar with this

0:16:02oh man I i love i love unlimited

0:16:06vacation time I companies because this

0:16:08to me is is the embodiment of corporate

0:16:12evil

0:16:12yep but so for listeners who may be

0:16:16unaware this is a trend I feel like over

0:16:19the past few years of companies saying

0:16:22there is an unlimited amount of vacation

0:16:24time for you to take you take as much as

0:16:27you feel that you need because we the

0:16:30company we love you and we want you to

0:16:32be happy and it sounds great and I think

0:16:36especially for people walking out of

0:16:40university and into their first job like

0:16:42oh this sounds like an amazing bonus but

0:16:44the end result is that without knowing

0:16:47how much vacation time is ok to take

0:16:50that people who work at companies that

0:16:52give unlimited vacation time essentially

0:16:54take no vacation time that they can

0:16:56never take time off because everybody

0:16:59has this paranoid feeling about how much

0:17:01time is appropriate to take off when is

0:17:03it okay i don't understand what the

0:17:05boundaries are and so yeah it's just is

0:17:07total total corporate evil to do that

0:17:11kind of thing but it is very important

0:17:13to make sure that you do it and that

0:17:15like unlimited vacation time in a

0:17:17strange way is exactly the way that mean

0:17:20you live our lives in and with so many

0:17:23self-employed people right it's like I

0:17:25can take as much time off as I want

0:17:27because I make I call the shots but what

0:17:29happens is i think man right here so I

0:17:33am I have become better and better maybe

0:17:35in the last year

0:17:37about taking some breaks but one of the

0:17:40things that I do which is good and bad

0:17:42as a lot of those brakes have some kind

0:17:44of what component in them one that helps

0:17:47me justify a lot of it to myself and you

0:17:50know i'm definitely not working as much

0:17:51as usual in those scenarios but there is

0:17:55more relaxation time occurring than

0:17:57usual as I laughing before because the

0:18:03comparison between unlimited vacation

0:18:04time companies and self-employment is

0:18:06just is perfectly spot-on and again in

0:18:11the into thinking about my upcoming

0:18:13summer which will have passed by the

0:18:15time people are listening to this and

0:18:17thinking about my last summer that's

0:18:21going on and thinking about just how I

0:18:22spend my working time I am so very much

0:18:26aware that in the past two years

0:18:29this is also an area that i have been

0:18:31just very bad at is taking time off and

0:18:36I recognize that as one of these things

0:18:38that I want to try to improve and I want

0:18:40to try to get better at but it is in no

0:18:43small part because there is a bit of a

0:18:45lull this feeling of like Oh in theory i

0:18:47could take any day off but you never

0:18:49want to take any particular day off

0:18:51because there's always stuff to do when

0:18:52you're self-employed this is this is the

0:18:54downside that we talked about it being

0:18:56self-employed that is very hard for the

0:18:58job to leave your mind or for you to

0:19:00leave the job it's always it's always

0:19:02there there's always stuff that you can

0:19:04do and you know I'll i look and look

0:19:08back quite fondly on my time as a

0:19:10teacher when you had those brakes and

0:19:14there is stuff to do during the breaks

0:19:16like I was always working on side

0:19:17projects or whatever but there was a way

0:19:21that you could genuinely completely

0:19:23leave the job behind for regular

0:19:26stretches of time and that was without

0:19:28doubt hugely mentally beneficial to do

0:19:31such a thing and i particularly love the

0:19:34UK schedule for teachers which is very

0:19:36different from in america in america you

0:19:38usually have a one really big long

0:19:40summer and a few short breaks throughout

0:19:41the year but in the UK it's like six

0:19:45weeks of teaching and then one week off

0:19:47six weeks of teaching two weeks off six

0:19:50weeks of

0:19:50g one week off it's an amazing amazing

0:19:52schedule that I think I need to move

0:19:54closer to that in the future because my

0:19:59current schedule of iwork almost every

0:20:03day some amount after probably pretty

0:20:07close to two years of doing that is like

0:20:08now this needs this needs to change this

0:20:11is a thing that I need to improve upon

0:20:13and it is one of the areas in which i

0:20:14have not been so great time office

0:20:17interest vacations though no it's not

0:20:20just vacations i'm thinking of vacations

0:20:22because that is the area in which i have

0:20:24been the worst at you and I'm also

0:20:25thinking about that because I am I keep

0:20:28comparing that oh this summer would be a

0:20:30lot easier if I could just have it be

0:20:33like my summers were when I was a

0:20:35teacher that's why I'm thinking about

0:20:37vacations but i have been much better

0:20:40this past year in particular of making a

0:20:42really conscious effort that no work

0:20:46happens on Saturdays so I have

0:20:49Saturday's blocked off in my calendar as

0:20:51just no workdays think nothing's going

0:20:54to happen here

0:20:55you know i'm spending time on my own i'm

0:20:56spending time with my wife but i'm going

0:20:58to have one really dedicated day out of

0:21:01the week that i know i'm not going to

0:21:03work on that day and simply doing that

0:21:07has been much more helpful like to to

0:21:11really treat that day

0:21:12respectfully like to not just blow it

0:21:14off and it's very easy to do some

0:21:16low-level work but like no no I'm very

0:21:18serious about this

0:21:19it's again it's very funny in this way

0:21:21like when you are something you have to

0:21:22be quite disciplined with this kind of

0:21:24stuff that you have to take time off

0:21:26really seriously

0:21:27otherwise you won't do it and that is a

0:21:31thing that has has worked for me but

0:21:33like what is it that you do in in your

0:21:38schedule with regards to time off

0:21:39because you have all these shows that

0:21:42you record and it seems like you record

0:21:45shows constantly from my perspective I

0:21:48mean do you have a day in your schedule

0:21:52that is perfectly clear do you do

0:21:54something similar or how does it work

0:21:56for you know haha like well yes and no

0:22:01okay i have no

0:22:03today that is like absolutely no work

0:22:06like categorically none

0:22:10weekends are low to none mm and and that

0:22:14is a regular thing for me there might be

0:22:17some low-level work that I do on a

0:22:20Sunday there might be something like

0:22:21just bits and bobs that pop up that I

0:22:23take care of but it's not one or the

0:22:27other for me on weekends but it tends to

0:22:29be that they are like significantly

0:22:31lower work at a point where it feels

0:22:33like I'm not working

0:22:35who's right but I know there's always

0:22:36stuff going on because our companies are

0:22:38very different from mine runs with

0:22:40people right and some and I like to be

0:22:43available for people if they need me

0:22:45so it is a different scenarios set up

0:22:48slightly differently but I'm totally

0:22:50happy with that I wouldn't want to work

0:22:52any other way and that doesn't have to

0:22:54be any people involved but you know but

0:22:57I wanted there to be that there would

0:23:00have been a way to to run real and very

0:23:02differently than the way that we run it

0:23:05we didn't have to create a slight group

0:23:07that had every hosting for dinner

0:23:10we just didn't have to do any of that

0:23:11you know because that makes everybody

0:23:13much more available to each other so it

0:23:15has 11 requirements to that but that's

0:23:16the way that I like to run my business

0:23:18but what I do is in my theme at the year

0:23:22of less i have two days every two weeks

0:23:27i mentioned this many times where there

0:23:29is way less work and also one week where

0:23:32there is just less work anyway yeah like

0:23:34less shows recording I is specifically

0:23:37stack one week heavier than the other

0:23:39blue and i'm running some side projects

0:23:42through some of that stuff too but it

0:23:45doesn't feel so much like work and like

0:23:47you know the way that you do that and

0:23:49one thing that I'm very mindful of is

0:23:51taking many breaks throughout the day

0:23:53that is something that I put a lot of

0:23:55focus on making sure that I do and

0:23:58working with a predominantly us audience

0:24:01means that's very possible because there

0:24:04are a lot of people that are asleep for

0:24:06the majority of my morning and afternoon

0:24:09so I'm able to do work that is isolated

0:24:13during that time where I'm able to take

0:24:15care of things that people want a hug me

0:24:17for I'm able to take care of things

0:24:19where i can send stuff to people and

0:24:22they won't get back to me immediately

0:24:23and then I'm also able to relax a little

0:24:26bit before working in the evening

0:24:29yeah I think that's I think that's good

0:24:31and it's sort of along this the same

0:24:35lines we are talking about many breaks

0:24:37one of the behaviors i have been trying

0:24:41to be much more conscious about is

0:24:45deciding when work isn't happening at

0:24:49particular times and as I mentioned

0:24:52before

0:24:52for me the afternoons are always my

0:24:54least productive time and while i have

0:24:57been bad about taking a dedicated time

0:25:00off like a vacation

0:25:01one other thing that I have gotten much

0:25:03much better at is is really accepting

0:25:07the afternoons as my unproductive time

0:25:09and deciding to not feel the guilt of

0:25:12there are things that you could be

0:25:14working on right now and to say instead

0:25:18know i'm i am accepting that this is low

0:25:20productivity time for me and if in the

0:25:24afternoon i want to sit down and I want

0:25:27to watch a couple episodes of TV or I

0:25:30just want to read a book or something

0:25:31that is fine because this is the time of

0:25:35day when it makes most sense to do that

0:25:37when you'd be the least effective

0:25:38working on something else anyway and you

0:25:42might as well take this as your down

0:25:45time I try and do this and I do this I

0:25:49still struggle with it the M and funnily

0:25:51enough time so I struggle with it the

0:25:53most also times when i need it the most

0:25:56what do you mean you needed the most

0:25:59so when when I have a lot on my mind so

0:26:02when I have a lot going on when I'm very

0:26:05busy

0:26:06it makes me feel overwhelmed and when I

0:26:09feel overwhelmed I usually need to take

0:26:11more breaks because typically when I

0:26:14have that overwhelmed feeling it's not

0:26:16as bad as I think it is and what will

0:26:19usually happen in

0:26:20is adina will come home and I will be in

0:26:24a bad mood like usually not angry but

0:26:27upset like I feel upset won't be Mike

0:26:29grant peace might even the right word

0:26:32for liking it so it's a weird feeling of

0:26:35like maybe more vulnerable it's straight

0:26:40something is very difficult for me to

0:26:42explain but the only way that I

0:26:43described it is also the high feel

0:26:45overwhelmed and then she'll say to me

0:26:47tell me all the things that you have

0:26:49going on and then I'll list them and

0:26:52realize it's not as many as I think it

0:26:53is this is a very common thing maybe

0:26:56happens every few months or so but it's

0:26:59not something that I can really see

0:27:01until I'm able to express it but it's

0:27:04funny that like the more and more it

0:27:06happens the more that I'm realizing that

0:27:09it's in those times is typically where

0:27:12I'm not taking breaks

0:27:14mm and it's when i'm not taking breaks

0:27:16I'm working maybe a little bit more than

0:27:19I should and then I feel like there's

0:27:20always more happening there is yeah that

0:27:24it's funny you mention that because at

0:27:30just this thing that I do fairly fairly

0:27:34regularly maybe like you maybe every

0:27:36couple of months I don't know exactly

0:27:38but i am also aware that feeling of

0:27:40overwhelm Ennis and a as much before

0:27:44sometimes like just this feeling like

0:27:47there is so much to do and so little

0:27:52time to do it

0:27:54I almost like that feeling is auntie

0:27:57correlated with actually how many things

0:28:00there are to do and so just the other

0:28:05day again this is now months ago from

0:28:07whatever people on this may have

0:28:09happened three times to be known

0:28:11yeah I may have done it several times

0:28:12now but I just the other day I posted on

0:28:15Twitter about how I always know like all

0:28:18things are serious when I feel the need

0:28:19to break out a second to do app and so I

0:28:23I more like if I have this feeling of

0:28:25overwhelming asst i do the same thing

0:28:29that Athena is walking you through

0:28:31of let me let me not look at my normal

0:28:36system let me not look at all of my

0:28:38normal things

0:28:39let me just list what are all of the

0:28:42things that are on my mind right now

0:28:44what are all of the things that are top

0:28:46of my mind that's taking up all of this

0:28:48mental attention and what am I feeling

0:28:50overwhelmed about and it's always the

0:28:53same experience of ok once i write this

0:28:55down in a list there maybe nine things

0:28:58on that list but i often find is I'm

0:29:03feeling overwhelmed or or busy because a

0:29:05bunch of these things are new or unusual

0:29:09things

0:29:11it's not that they're actually i may not

0:29:14actually be tremendously more busy than

0:29:16I currently am but it's just there's

0:29:18uncertainty here and writing it down on

0:29:22a list like clarifies and refined that

0:29:24uncertainty and helps get rid of that

0:29:26feeling of being too busy and too

0:29:30overwhelmed

0:29:31yeah they're there is something quite

0:29:32funny and that you talk to it to do app

0:29:34and I talked to my girlfriend and I used

0:29:38to write it down on a piece of paper but

0:29:39now I know now I i use do out for a

0:29:41little bit in the future come on we're

0:29:43living in the future but yes it's like

0:29:46having just gone through this like this

0:29:49week i had been feeling very overwhelmed

0:29:50when I wrote it all down what i realize

0:29:52is ok i am actually quite busy because

0:29:55this week i am working on a video we're

0:29:59doing these two podcast one which is the

0:30:01bank episode in the future so that is a

0:30:03thing that counts for me as a bit of oh

0:30:05this is unusual

0:30:06this is different the video that i am

0:30:10working on again I can't talk about this

0:30:11now even though it hasn't yet happened

0:30:13is a collaboration video with somebody

0:30:17else and so that also adds to the

0:30:20different pneus of the project i like

0:30:22that you said somebody else you still

0:30:24trying to god don't know why I did that

0:30:26from the people that know right yeah

0:30:30it's a it's a it's a crossover video

0:30:33with Curtis that I don't know why on

0:30:34earth I said somebody else very proud of

0:30:36you right now that was part of my brain

0:30:38really not sure if we're supposed to

0:30:40reveal this yet but no no one will hear

0:30:41this but so that's the thing it's it's

0:30:43different

0:30:44and then the other thing is i have a

0:30:47bunch of stuff that's just related to

0:30:48finalizing and preparing for all of the

0:30:51summer travels

0:30:52now that is a busier week than normal

0:30:55but overwhelmingly the feeling of

0:30:59busyness or the feeling of overwhelming

0:31:01this is was just coming from a bunch of

0:31:03these things are different than they

0:31:04normally are

0:31:05and so when you write them all down on a

0:31:07list you can see okay this is clearer

0:31:10than I thought it was before

0:31:12yeah and this helps focus the mind on

0:31:17what you're going to do and what I also

0:31:19really like about this this process of

0:31:21writing things down in these moments is

0:31:23forcing the list to be in what order are

0:31:28you going to work on it like this

0:31:30here's the thing at the top this is the

0:31:32thing that you're doing right now the

0:31:33next most important thing is below it

0:31:35and then just so on

0:31:36I i find that is extremely helpful and I

0:31:40know I always want to use a hippie word

0:31:42like centering I don't know I i get it's

0:31:45a similar thing i have a hard time

0:31:47verbalizing the mental feeling it's like

0:31:50decluttering yeah yeah that'sthat's

0:31:53actually that's pretty good that that's

0:31:55a very similar feeling of like a

0:31:59decluttering is how much stuff is here

0:32:01maybe not necessarily a lot but what you

0:32:03really need to do is get rid of a few

0:32:04items and better arrange the items that

0:32:07you have and then you realize how it

0:32:08wasn't actually that cluttered but I

0:32:10didn't need to do a bit of decluttering

0:32:11that's that's pretty good

0:32:13that's pretty good so going back to the

0:32:15time off em so the time off the isn't

0:32:18vacations you mentioned TV shows the ICM

0:32:22you do video gaming and stuff like that

0:32:25during those periods as well yeah video

0:32:27gaming actually quite recently it's it's

0:32:29been much more TV than video games I

0:32:32always tend to go in cycles with video

0:32:33games are playing a lot then not being

0:32:35very much at all yet depends what

0:32:37weather is something out that you wanna

0:32:38play right as well yeah thats part

0:32:41that's partly it but I think it's

0:32:43there's also just something in my brain

0:32:44which is more or less engaged by that

0:32:46activity and so I think that the like

0:32:49the video game TV cycles are our

0:32:51opposite cycles that that go on so so

0:32:55yeah those are things that I do it

0:32:57if I'm feeling dizzy or I sometimes I

0:33:00feel like there's something that's on my

0:33:01mind in a in a way that is difficult to

0:33:04articulate and so that's a time when I

0:33:06also really like to just go walking

0:33:08around the city and just just kind of

0:33:10explore go to a different place got a

0:33:13shoe over something in my mind I feel

0:33:15like I often don't even know exactly

0:33:17what it is that my brain is thinking

0:33:18about but going for a long walk and

0:33:21really resolve that kind of stuff and

0:33:24again an afternoon is a perfect time for

0:33:25that kind of thing like what else am I

0:33:26gonna do

0:33:27I'm not you know I'm gonna record a

0:33:29podcast like not every day we should

0:33:31look into that

0:33:32no we should I mean we've been doing it

0:33:34for two days in a row and is one day

0:33:38more than enough

0:33:39yeah this is supposed to be fortnightly

0:33:41that's what this is supposed to be on

0:33:44this show we spend an awful lot of time

0:33:46talking about side projects as i'm sure

0:33:48many of you out there have them those

0:33:50side projects they need a website those

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0:34:14to have to deal with and stuff you're

0:34:15not interested in that's why haha only

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0:34:21focus on finding that great domain name

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0:35:03thank you so much to her for their

0:35:04support of this show and we laugh and

0:35:06what about you Mike like for your time

0:35:10off be

0:35:11I I always just think about your

0:35:12schedule like you have this crazy

0:35:13schedule that I think I could not live

0:35:16with and it seems like your day is just

0:35:18very fragmented yeah so it's like what

0:35:22like what does that look like for you

0:35:24it has been a real problem for me this

0:35:26week mmm

0:35:27yesterday I had a feeling which I do not

0:35:30have very often boredom food so

0:35:35yesterday morning I was very bored and

0:35:39when I started thinking about it

0:35:41what I realized is I haven't been

0:35:44outside of the house

0:35:46mm in five days mmhmm yeah

0:35:50previously to that I was in a relative's

0:35:53house for the day

0:35:55who and then before that i was home for

0:35:57four days

0:35:58so what I realized is really i haven't

0:36:01left the house in two weeks because the

0:36:03times that i left the house I was going

0:36:05to other houses you've been a housecat

0:36:10for two weeks exactly and this is where

0:36:12my there are two factors here that make

0:36:15this difficult which is schedule and

0:36:17location now why was talking to a dinner

0:36:22about this issue saying just go for a

0:36:24walk and but the walk is not the thing

0:36:26that I need

0:36:27it's not being being out of the house is

0:36:30not what I need its stimulation when

0:36:32they leave the house who and just

0:36:34leaving here walking around my outer rim

0:36:38planet right is no good for me that he's

0:36:41got cattle skulls Jack over you just

0:36:43tumbleweed I can chase the tumbleweed

0:36:45down the street but that's not gonna do

0:36:46much good

0:36:47there's not really any benefit to me

0:36:49that I feel for doing that you know

0:36:51other than the exercise I do exercise on

0:36:54don't worry I'm not turning into a blob

0:36:56here so this is like an issue that i

0:36:59have hand mainly because the last two

0:37:02weeks have been uncharacteristically

0:37:04busy because of upcoming travel so is

0:37:09one of the reasons why the year of less

0:37:12quiet week which I'm currently in

0:37:14actually busier than my previous busily

0:37:17because there is travel coming up

0:37:20I presume that this means you are like

0:37:23you're doing with me right now recording

0:37:25other shows in advance or getting in and

0:37:28getting ready in some way for a a

0:37:31Content drought while you are at WWDC

0:37:33and not going to be recording a ton of

0:37:35stuff

0:37:35exactly and also other people like of a

0:37:40co-host and stuff are moving around a

0:37:42lot so there's like it's just a lot of

0:37:43like things moving around on my show

0:37:46Joel we've had news things that we're

0:37:48trying to get ready to do and all that

0:37:50sort of stuff so it's like additional

0:37:51pressures that maybe wouldn't be here

0:37:54usually blue and the other part that you

0:37:56mention my schedule combined with the

0:37:59fact that i am kind of on the outer rim

0:38:00my showed you all will throw things in

0:38:03the middle of the day

0:38:04yeah yeah so we record a two o'clock i

0:38:09record some other shows at three o'clock

0:38:11so once i'm done with my morning work i

0:38:15can't really go anywhere because I

0:38:18wouldn't make it back in time because

0:38:20I'm like an hour away from anything I

0:38:23want to do right so this is where the

0:38:26location is a problem which is why you

0:38:29know when we move which is getting

0:38:31closer and closer one of the key things

0:38:33that we're looking for is to be in

0:38:36civilization as some kind

0:38:38so I won't have to have this feeling

0:38:40because I can just go take a walk and

0:38:42maybe go get a coffee in a different

0:38:43location or they take a nice walk around

0:38:46a nice place to a thing go to the store

0:38:49you know I can do all of these things

0:38:50and they'll be more pleasant for me who

0:38:53but the good thing is I don't feel like

0:38:55this very frequently because I do make

0:38:57an effort in usual times to plan things

0:39:01outside of the home going to visit

0:39:03people having lunches of people and

0:39:04stuff like that but it was very

0:39:06interesting to me to confirm or I

0:39:09expected would be the case which is if I

0:39:11stay in the house too long i would get

0:39:13the boredom feeling but it is funny that

0:39:16it's maybe the first time I felt this in

0:39:20the two years I've been self-employed

0:39:22hmm yes it's it's a funny thing is

0:39:26boredom is a feeling for children and

0:39:30for office monkeys that's where that

0:39:32feeling seems like it would be the most

0:39:33part

0:39:34sent in the population and to be

0:39:38self-employed there's always something

0:39:40to do I I I think boredom

0:39:43I caught myself feeling slightly bored a

0:39:48few weeks ago and i just noticed it as a

0:39:51bizarre feeling like oh I haven't felt

0:39:53this way in forever I haven't felt this

0:39:55way in a really long time

0:39:57yep that's how I was like I put my ipad

0:39:59down and I went poof

0:40:01I was like oh no haha like patting your

0:40:05legs with your hands and I was looking

0:40:07around there's nothing to do there's

0:40:09nothing to do list i have something

0:40:11later on but nothing to do right now

0:40:13I've already watched on my youtube

0:40:14videos I've already mentally and

0:40:16uncharted there's nothing to do

0:40:18yeah this like like my summer planning

0:40:23like some of the other stuff we're

0:40:24talking about now I feel like this is

0:40:25all falling into the category of this

0:40:27meta skill of observing yourself

0:40:30yeah and it is a really key skill to in

0:40:35those moments take note of your own

0:40:38mental state and what's occurring and

0:40:42that i know i think that that's sounds

0:40:44kind of obvious but I really think this

0:40:46is a learned skill to cognitively learn

0:40:51to watch yourself and then walk yourself

0:40:54through precisely what you're talking

0:40:56about here thinking like why do I feel

0:40:58bored and trend tracking it back as

0:41:00opposed to just accepting that boredom

0:41:02is a feeling that you occasionally

0:41:03experience and projecting outward like

0:41:06oh my media is not entertaining enough

0:41:09for me right now that's why I'm being

0:41:11bored like no now that's that's not what

0:41:13it is there's something there's

0:41:15something that you are doing that is

0:41:17causing this in yourself and so then you

0:41:20recognize ago I have been a housecat for

0:41:2214 days in a row now I'm feeling bored

0:41:25yeah there's there's been no external

0:41:27stimulation everything is just the same

0:41:29for everything is just media consumption

0:41:31but things really key to be able to

0:41:33recognize that in yourself and then be

0:41:36able to try to course-correct and and

0:41:39act on that I was also quite pleased

0:41:41because it proved a hypothesis that i

0:41:43had about myself

0:41:45you know and i was able to i was i was

0:41:48happy in the sense i was able to

0:41:50understand that this could happen and

0:41:52then when it did happen i recognized it

0:41:54right and it also just makes me very

0:41:57wary of allowing it to happen which is

0:42:01why you know as dead as we get closer

0:42:04and closer to the end of the year I mean

0:42:06still halfway for the year but you know

0:42:08we're about to be on the other end of

0:42:12the middle right so we're moving towards

0:42:14the end of the year

0:42:15I'm beginning already to think about

0:42:17what does 2017 look like commitments

0:42:20why's this is this is this is perfect

0:42:25because this is exactly what I've been

0:42:26thinking about so intensely and in the

0:42:28past several weeks as well it is almost

0:42:31mentally like well the rest of the year

0:42:34is is kind of set yeah i'm not going to

0:42:36make any changes now

0:42:37yeah i might do new stuff but i'm not

0:42:39going to get rid of anything because

0:42:40it's all planned it's all there also

0:42:42exists will accept it that is it there's

0:42:45a schedule in place yet but already

0:42:47thinking forward towards next year and

0:42:50like what what does next year look like

0:42:52and doing the same thing on a bigger

0:42:54scale of what is this year looks like

0:42:55what his last year look like what do you

0:42:57do again they along with the meta

0:43:00cognition that this feeling of the the

0:43:04project of a human life is to design a

0:43:06life that it wants to live like this

0:43:09this is the ultimate thing that you want

0:43:10to try to do is make your life more of a

0:43:14life that you want to live and so doing

0:43:18the same thing of thinking forward to

0:43:192017 and thinking okay how can 2017 be

0:43:26better than 2016 what structural changes

0:43:30are there that can be made in the future

0:43:32that will place me in a situation where

0:43:36i like my life even better than I

0:43:38already liked it i think this is one of

0:43:40these things you kind of naturally end

0:43:41up thinking about because it's just

0:43:43funny that you say that you again at

0:43:46this point which is essentially not yet

0:43:49but barely halfway through the year

0:43:51you already are quite naturally thinking

0:43:53forward toward next year like that's

0:43:55just something that's that's coming

0:43:56across your mental horizons

0:43:57I think it's you know a lot of it is

0:43:59because by this point in the year I at

0:44:03least accumulates and new things and I

0:44:05want to work on some new stuff so I'm

0:44:08like okay you're at the halfway point

0:44:09now and how are you feeling okay you're

0:44:12going to feel like maybe you've got a

0:44:13lot going on but wait you're not

0:44:15stopping em so it's just a case of over

0:44:19the hump time to consider what next year

0:44:22looks like and it's just like you know

0:44:24how we were talking in January about new

0:44:29year being time to reflect who i feel

0:44:31like in the same vein half-year is just

0:44:34in the time to start making yourself

0:44:36aware of next year just like a little

0:44:39mental clock thing that happens around

0:44:42like okay I've been doing this what I

0:44:45set out in January for six months now

0:44:48now just time to start preparing myself

0:44:51for what the next part looks like i

0:44:53should buy this point in the year of

0:44:55worked out if the 2016 plan was an

0:44:58effective one moving now how do i

0:45:00tweaked it to create 2017 plan right and

0:45:03the the rest of 2016 is in some sense

0:45:06execution on the what has already been

0:45:09set up yet right it's like we're just

0:45:12going to continue to execute what has

0:45:14been set up and then thinking thinking

0:45:15forward toward the next year

0:45:17yeah there's no point for course

0:45:19correction in unless there's something

0:45:20significantly wrong in which there isn't

0:45:23I mean you know your course correcting

0:45:25in some way in that you're getting help

0:45:28yes that's true although i will still

0:45:30say that all of this is falling under

0:45:32the year of less this is fish is this is

0:45:35why that project was set up for this

0:45:37year and two to go even on a1a like zoom

0:45:41out one additional level is another part

0:45:45of the motivation behind the year of

0:45:47last was also also relates to what we

0:45:50were discussing before which is

0:45:51recognizing I have been really bad at

0:45:54taking vacation time for myself and the

0:45:58last vacation time that I theoretically

0:46:01had over the summer I was not very good

0:46:03at doing that I was bad at vacationing

0:46:05uh-huh and so the year of less is in a

0:46:08larger part of way of thinking of okay

0:46:10well

0:46:11how can i setup structures so that it is

0:46:13easier for me to take some dedicated

0:46:16amount of time off right and and but

0:46:18that but even that is like okay I need

0:46:20to get those systems in place in 2016 if

0:46:25there is any hope of rearranging

0:46:27schedules or commitments in 2017 his

0:46:31it's funny to think of these things on

0:46:34such a long term but if you don't think

0:46:37about this stuff you can't do any kind

0:46:39of course correction in our life and

0:46:41everything always takes longer than you

0:46:44think it's it's going to so that's why

0:46:46can take a whole year to think about how

0:46:48can i reduce the number of hours that i

0:46:51am working on stuff while not

0:46:54dramatically reducing the actual output

0:46:56and then if that is successful that can

0:46:59have knock-on effects towards what

0:47:02happens in the future do anything that

0:47:05you want to reveal about your 2017 like

0:47:06to see your plans you don't tell people

0:47:08about I don't have secret plans yeah so

0:47:12what are you thinking about that towards

0:47:132017 like what what is pulling your mind

0:47:16in that direction the same thing as last

0:47:18year so that the 2016 change was cutting

0:47:23a show and reducing the shedule some

0:47:26others em so it will be the same kind of

0:47:30thing I expect like that's one thinking

0:47:33now is like okay that worked pretty well

0:47:36what can I do

0:47:38so are there any shows which would be

0:47:40natural to end at the end of the year

0:47:42and are there any shows which would be

0:47:45natural to reduce commitment in some way

0:47:47maybe who I don't change the publishing

0:47:51schedule of them but maybe there are

0:47:53parts of the process which I won't need

0:47:55I won't do anymore

0:47:57whoever that is planning it differently

0:47:59or editing it differently

0:48:01what are the the changes that i can make

0:48:04to reduce that and this is the thing

0:48:07it's not for me about reducing the

0:48:09amount of work it's freeing up time

0:48:13again Lou so I'm not looking to like do

0:48:16less and chill who you know I'm not

0:48:19getting into the grey mentality is just

0:48:21just chill i'm looking to

0:48:24juice commitments so i can do new things

0:48:28because I like working i like it a lot

0:48:32and a lot of the time off stuff that I

0:48:35do is to enable myself to be able to

0:48:38work more effectively because I give

0:48:40myself the time to relax because i know

0:48:42that helps me but in the same vein I

0:48:45also then try and find ways and other

0:48:47than if this is good or bad to turn the

0:48:49things that I enjoy into work so it all

0:48:52comes full circle

0:48:54it doesn't stop my enjoyment of those

0:48:55things i still play video games for 12

0:48:57hours but then I just doing a podcast

0:48:59episode about it and it feels like it

0:49:01was all ok right getting

0:49:03return-on-investment front retainment

0:49:04time there huh yeah well this i think

0:49:08this is this is a very natural thing and

0:49:15my version of this as well is it i am I

0:49:20know that I am happier with side

0:49:23projects and other things to work on

0:49:25aside from the main things and it's

0:49:27similar thing of feeling that I want to

0:49:31be able to clear time on my schedule and

0:49:35part of that means like and I always

0:49:36have like projects that i'm thinking

0:49:39about maybe this would work out maybe

0:49:40this this would work out

0:49:41I'm filtering them all now through the

0:49:43year of less filter that if they're

0:49:47successful other people need to be able

0:49:48to do the morning to be able to pass the

0:49:50monitor they need to be completed things

0:49:51again very happy to have that mental

0:49:54filter in place but i'm still very much

0:49:57in the mindset of as well freeing up

0:49:59time and very consciously not working on

0:50:01any of those side projects until I have

0:50:02freed up a significant number of hours

0:50:04but then the thing that I'm also

0:50:06wondering about is I agree with you that

0:50:08that vacation time is necessary recovery

0:50:11time and recognizing like I haven't been

0:50:13good at that and so feeling is there a

0:50:15way to aggregate a bunch of these hours

0:50:18together so that in the future at some

0:50:20point i can say i am taking a legitimate

0:50:22one hundred percent week off

0:50:23I'm doing nothing and i am going to feel

0:50:26glorious about it and that will be ok

0:50:29and then after that recovery period

0:50:31going back into the regular schedule

0:50:35because

0:50:36even though again our very first episode

0:50:39was titled I don't really like work i am

0:50:44very aware that I am still in the

0:50:45category of the kind of person who if I

0:50:48don't have something to work on

0:50:50I would go crazy like I i need to have

0:50:54some kind of work to do and without that

0:50:57it would just be a descent into madness

0:51:01there always has to be stuff to work on

0:51:03but there's the interesting question of

0:51:06how do you rearrange hours in the day

0:51:08how do you how do you arrange your time

0:51:11to be most effective so that you can

0:51:13work on the things that are of interest

0:51:17to you and that are also hopefully

0:51:20profitable in some way to pay the bills

0:51:23and to fulfill all of the various

0:51:25financial obligations that we all have

0:51:27what is a great vacation or a great

0:51:31vacation if you will let me hit here's

0:51:34the thing those trips to Amsterdam which

0:51:36we have made fun of various times on

0:51:38this show locations

0:51:41yeah those were in a way my attempts

0:51:46this year to try to do a vacation sort

0:51:50of but i knew i wasn't able to actually

0:51:54take time off to do nothing but I found

0:51:58those very interesting experiences

0:51:59because i was working in a very very

0:52:04focused way but I also felt like I am

0:52:08getting a lot of the same benefits that

0:52:11I would get from a vacation and I think

0:52:14this is this is just simply the again

0:52:17knowing yourself and knowing how to work

0:52:20with yourself and because i am quite

0:52:24naturally and an introverted person

0:52:26those trips were intentionally arranged

0:52:29so that I'm not really talking to

0:52:32anybody when I'm there and I was also

0:52:34very consciously minimizing as much as

0:52:37possible my communication with the

0:52:39outside world and so those were really

0:52:44interesting experiences to me of i feel

0:52:47like i am able to have some kind of

0:52:49recovery

0:52:50while still working as long as i am very

0:52:55conscious about being aware of what are

0:52:57the things that are most draining to me

0:52:59and it's like oh ok well one of those

0:53:02things are unusual or new social

0:53:05engagements or more thing or things like

0:53:07the podcast where this is not an unusual

0:53:11or new social engagement but there is

0:53:13there is something about this which is

0:53:17always a bit mentally draining in the

0:53:18same way because there is the awareness

0:53:20of the audience that is listening like

0:53:22this is a thing that is going out into

0:53:24the public world this is not mike and i

0:53:27just meeting for lunch conversation so

0:53:31those trips are really interesting and I

0:53:34think oftentimes many people's idea of

0:53:37what a vacation might be like oh we're

0:53:40going to go away with a bunch of people

0:53:41to a fun place like that can actually be

0:53:43hugely draining for me like that's

0:53:45what's that is what is going to happen

0:53:48this summer in no small part with some

0:53:50of the family obligations that i have is

0:53:52to any outside observer the the

0:53:55activities that i am doing they will

0:53:57look like vacations but i will be

0:53:59totally exhausted by them

0:54:01it's like oh I don't i'm not doing a

0:54:04whole lot of work there's just a whole

0:54:05bunch of hanging out with people and

0:54:07like oh there's things to do and

0:54:10activities to participate in and this

0:54:11looks like a vacation but it is not it

0:54:14is not if you are me so I think for me

0:54:18vacations at their best are always about

0:54:22limits inactivity or very conscious

0:54:27choices about what is being engaged in

0:54:31that that that to me is what a vacation

0:54:33is that is what I feel like is the the

0:54:36best return on investment per hour spent

0:54:39of recovery received so is Amsterdam the

0:54:43best type of vacation and all is it

0:54:46sitting on a beach for you all that kind

0:54:51of holiday the not doing anything all

0:54:53day what's best then if it's like low

0:54:58low social interaction and low work

0:55:02interaction is you know the Amsterdam is

0:55:05high work interaction

0:55:07yeah I this is this is what i'm trying

0:55:11to think about towards towards for next

0:55:13year is like how am I going to do this

0:55:16and one of the things I'm thinking about

0:55:17is an Amsterdam type trip is very

0:55:22effective because it is it is high work

0:55:24but low social interaction high recovery

0:55:28but i still need trips or vacations

0:55:33every once in a while that have some

0:55:35period of time which is just absolute

0:55:38nothingness and so last summer which was

0:55:42which was quite busy at the end of the

0:55:45trip the best decision that my wife and

0:55:47I made was that after a whole bunch of

0:55:49things we were doing a place we're going

0:55:51like things to do we intentionally

0:55:54scheduled a mini post vacation recovery

0:55:59time by going to Las Vegas and we just

0:56:03rented a nice room in Las Vegas and did

0:56:07nothing for a few days and it was just

0:56:09glorious and and that was a real kind of

0:56:12like this is this is great i can i can

0:56:15relax i can just there's nothing to do i

0:56:18need this every once in awhile of

0:56:19there's no responsibility

0:56:21there's no getting up there is no

0:56:23writing is just a total break and

0:56:26because that is a thing that went really

0:56:28well last summer that is actually what

0:56:30we're planning on doing again this

0:56:31summer is like I have this incredibly

0:56:33unusual busy summer but at the very end

0:56:36of it the last thing that we're going to

0:56:38do is we are once again we're going to

0:56:41go to Las Vegas we're renting a nice

0:56:42room

0:56:43we're going to spend a few days there

0:56:44and we're just going to do nothing and i

0:56:49feel like i need i need a little bit

0:56:51more of the do nothing at all time in my

0:56:54life that i currently have like I feel

0:56:57over the past two years in particular I

0:56:59have

0:57:00had two little do nothing time I don't

0:57:03need a ton of it but i need some of it

0:57:07on a one as honest um somewhat of an

0:57:10interval that it doesn't just randomly

0:57:11it doesn't just randomly occur but now

0:57:14this is one of these cases where I

0:57:17imagine Mike that you might be a little

0:57:19bit different from me in this scenario

0:57:21what some with the mic asian like hello

0:57:26I recently most of my vacations are

0:57:32centered around conferences em and it's

0:57:36because I take my vacations as times to

0:57:39see my friends because very few of my

0:57:42friends live in the same country as me

0:57:43right

0:57:45I'm you do which is great which means i

0:57:47see you often other friends and maybe

0:57:50see once a year or twice a year

0:57:52something like that so I'm able to

0:57:54couple these things and because they're

0:57:55also like interesting locations i very

0:57:59much like going to America and is

0:58:01usually nice places in America that i'll

0:58:03go to for the source stuff and they are

0:58:06kind of work occasions because there are

0:58:08working type things happening but it's

0:58:11way lower

0:58:12I tend not to record on these things if

0:58:14I do it's very few and I've tried exam

0:58:18Francisco largely WTC last year was

0:58:21quite a lot of show recordings and other

0:58:23things happening and this year was

0:58:27planned very differently to hopefully

0:58:29maybe it did who knows it's already

0:58:32happened but maybe it was rather a be it

0:58:34wasn't ok we'll find out and adjust

0:58:36again recording with you was an

0:58:39unexpected thing on the calendar by hey

0:58:43huh that's how these things go

0:58:45it's all about cooperation and I do like

0:58:49though the do-nothing vacation I just

0:58:52don't really plan for those as much who

0:58:55because one of the things that has

0:58:58occurred is me and Deena like to make

0:59:00sure we try and take trips together

0:59:02which typically means that she will take

0:59:05a trip with me to a friend its location

0:59:08and America sent around a thing

0:59:09happening and then maybe i will take

0:59:12trips of her

0:59:13to Romania and we'll see friends but it

0:59:16you know we are thinking again for later

0:59:19this year to maybe take a trip with my

0:59:22family which will be a do-nothing

0:59:25location because i feel like i could do

0:59:30that like when i take family vacations

0:59:32or have taken or would take family

0:59:35vacations I would feel way let's

0:59:37obligated like do stuff with my family

0:59:40Lou that maybe you do I feel like there

0:59:42is an obligation within you to when

0:59:44you're on a family vacation family

0:59:46activities i don't really do that and my

0:59:50family understand that about me which is

0:59:53actually quite interesting they're going

0:59:55talking about this is i may be more you

0:59:58with my family then you

0:59:58with my family then you

1:00:00haha yeah with my immediate family there

1:00:03is no obligation to really do things uh

1:00:05I have a very small family Z so I think

1:00:09that's why I'm able to get away with it

1:00:11but people tend not to bother me and my

1:00:14family with stuff because they know i

1:00:16just have no tolerance for it which is

1:00:19quite nice

1:00:20so on a family vacation I wouldn't do

1:00:23anything like that and if we don't do

1:00:25that trip I would very much before the

1:00:27end of the year like for us to do a

1:00:29do-nothing vacation the house buying

1:00:31process might kind of get in the way of

1:00:33that arm but yeah I i like to try and do

1:00:36that as well but the majority of my

1:00:38vacations are centered around some kind

1:00:40of big activity that brings people

1:00:41together

1:00:42yeah for me and interesting intersection

1:00:45of sort of doing nothing but also

1:00:49engaging was a few years ago my parents

1:00:54treated my wife and I to a cruise so the

1:00:59four of us went on a cruise and it was

1:01:05just fantastic because a cruise ship is

1:01:08an environment in which while there are

1:01:12many things going on

1:01:14I again really enjoyed the constraint of

1:01:18it so well it's not actually a whole lot

1:01:21to do you know you this

1:01:23the internet is unusable because it's

1:01:26going through a satellite and they all

1:01:28actually that's a benefit

1:01:29I like this there's there's not really

1:01:31any internet to use there's very little

1:01:34to do except kinda like sit and read a

1:01:38book and watch the scenery go by and the

1:01:41cruise ship is also a a nice environment

1:01:44oh because it's relatively small I keep

1:01:46bumping into my parents right you can't

1:01:49you cannot run into people and it's it's

1:01:51like an artificial tiny village

1:01:54almost yeah yeah and in this really

1:01:57constrained but enjoyable way and

1:02:01there's always something to like remark

1:02:04upon because the cruise ship is going

1:02:06past interesting places and i just i

1:02:09found that was just a really pleasant

1:02:13a to have a trip that just totally felt

1:02:16like recovery time but also had the

1:02:19thing that is beneficial and best about

1:02:22traveling which is novelty like your

1:02:25brain needs some kind of novelty

1:02:27otherwise you become like Mike was your

1:02:30board or you feel like you're an indoor

1:02:32cat and I don't know is that i found

1:02:35that was just a really great interaction

1:02:38like this is this is this is just

1:02:40perfect

1:02:40this is an absolutely perfect experience

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1:04:37support for the shop they get a square

1:04:39space for supporting cortex and really a

1:04:42fan I feel like we've been really

1:04:44philosophical on this episode Mikey this

1:04:48episode being an episode out of time it

1:04:51has a totally different feel to it

1:04:53do you feel that it is weird right I

1:04:55feel way more raw than usual yeah i'm

1:05:00looking for a very strange it is Rhys a

1:05:04good word maybe the continuity somehow

1:05:08keeps the safe

1:05:10maybe when were out of continuity

1:05:12everything just go out the window

1:05:14yeah but it almost feels like i'm just

1:05:17i'm here in my office just floating in

1:05:22the black void of space talking into a

1:05:25microphone that that is the feeling of

1:05:27this episode is where my perspective

1:05:30because I don't wear so much uncertainty

1:05:31to it

1:05:33yeah what will have happened to our

1:05:35lives in between now on this episode

1:05:37being released we don't even look

1:05:39yeah who knows nobody knows it's just

1:05:43been it's been very strange this episode

1:05:46out of time and I think and we need to

1:05:49try to try to get ourselves back into

1:05:53the regular space-time continuum with

1:05:56some normality and I think we should do

1:06:00that with a little bit of ass cortex

1:06:01that's a great idea let's bring the

1:06:02people back to us yeah yeah that's what

1:06:05it is this is like calling out in the

1:06:06void into the other voices that have

1:06:09spoken to us please tell me that you

1:06:11have some ass cortex questions ideal

1:06:14agreement i do and the first ones from

1:06:16kevin i look at that your voice is even

1:06:18normal now or he's not happy again if

1:06:22the normal Mike voice okay Kevin would

1:06:24like to know what is your relationship

1:06:27with magic the gathering apparently

1:06:30kevin has recognized some references in

1:06:32the video almost wondering if you have

1:06:35played and if you do play

1:06:37do you know what Matt Magic the

1:06:38Gathering is my know what

1:06:40it is yes a trading card game okay yeah

1:06:43yeah magic is a trading card game it is

1:06:48i I'm I'm not it is one of the first I

1:06:52ever came across

1:06:54I don't know how early it is in the

1:06:56history of these actual things of

1:06:58collectible card game I feel understands

1:07:02the one though right

1:07:04like it is the trading card game it

1:07:07feels like the progenitor of the modern

1:07:10idea you know what trading card games

1:07:13are and i am I got into magic when I was

1:07:19in high school I think I can't remember

1:07:21how but it was it was right at the very

1:07:22beginning because i remember reading

1:07:25some article in some physical magazine

1:07:28that was talking about this new thing

1:07:30and I thought it looked cool and i

1:07:34remember bugging my parents to take me

1:07:36to some game shops that I could buy

1:07:39these cards

1:07:40mhm and of course I didn't realize that

1:07:44these card games are set up to be like

1:07:48drug habits that he might he's you can

1:07:52get in really easy right you can you can

1:07:54start out by just over here you go you

1:07:56buy yourself a starter deck and it may

1:07:58maybe kid you want to buy some expansion

1:08:00packs and yeah i would like to buy some

1:08:02expansion packs and then next year they

1:08:05come out with a more powerful version of

1:08:06the drug and so you have to buy more

1:08:08expansion packs if you want to you want

1:08:10to keep up with what's happening in the

1:08:12game and I really liked it

1:08:15magic just super fit the kind of thing

1:08:20that my brain likes thinking about all

1:08:22of the different cards and how all of

1:08:24the cards interact with all the other

1:08:25cards and the systems of it I really

1:08:28really liked it but I did not have a

1:08:32large enough wallet at the time to

1:08:35express how much I liked magic and so my

1:08:39feeling of magic from from being a kid

1:08:41was mostly i do not have enough money to

1:08:44play this came i always have to play it

1:08:47with whatever cards i have just scrounge

1:08:48together

1:08:50so I i really i really liked it a lot as

1:08:52a kid as an adult I have played some of

1:08:54the ipad versions of it because that's a

1:08:56much cheaper way to get into the game

1:08:57i'm not super into it as an adult in no

1:09:01small part because there have been so

1:09:04many expansions and so many add-ons that

1:09:06the game is horrific really complicated

1:09:10now if you haven't been following it

1:09:12every year with all the little changes

1:09:14that they make but yeah

1:09:16magic the gathering quite like it got

1:09:18into it as a kid and if i can make a 15

1:09:23years out-of-date magic the gathering

1:09:24reference in my videos i'm not gonna

1:09:27pass up on that you have a plane hast on

1:09:29hearthstone is really fun

1:09:34have you played hard stone yeah I I've

1:09:37have played and suck so bad

1:09:41listen there's never a discussion about

1:09:43how good we are at these things it's

1:09:45just a question of have you played yeah

1:09:47I have played heart hearthstone is for

1:09:50listeners it's to me it feels like the

1:09:54next generation of magic the gathering

1:09:56it's it's all on the ipad or on desktop

1:10:00is its cross-platform yeah right i

1:10:02always forget that it's on desktop yeah

1:10:03it's a collectible card game but what I

1:10:06love about it is they so understand that

1:10:08nobody has physical cards here it is the

1:10:11abstract idea of a card and it allows

1:10:13them to do a lot of really interesting

1:10:14things digitally with the game

1:10:17hearthstone is a thing that is i slide

1:10:19in and out of but i think it's it's

1:10:21really fun but hard stone totally killed

1:10:26my ability to play magic because all of

1:10:29the things that you learn in magic that

1:10:31make you a good magic player i think

1:10:33hard stone was designed specifically so

1:10:35that all of your magic habits will just

1:10:39be like sliding a knife into your own

1:10:43gut when you play the game if you play

1:10:45it like i love i love magic based card

1:10:48games let me play hearthstone and it's

1:10:50well i'm going to die immediately

1:10:52everything that I would do in magic

1:10:54which would be a more smart strategic

1:10:55move will get you killed immediately a

1:10:57hearthstone

1:10:58so I I think I'm probably never going to

1:11:01go back to playing magic because once

1:11:02you do hearthstone it's it's hard to go

1:11:04back but it's super fun i really like it

1:11:07and I it's fun to play people

1:11:10anonymously online i'm not very good at

1:11:14all but i don't care like that's not the

1:11:15point is to be good

1:11:17the point is I'm doing something fun

1:11:18while I'm sitting on the couch in

1:11:21trading card game physical trading card

1:11:23game of a plate was the Pokemon Trading

1:11:24Card Game of course which was awesome

1:11:27they even made a gameboy version of the

1:11:31card game which was great to Pokemon

1:11:35Trading Card Game yeah it's still going

1:11:37it's still a very popular trading card

1:11:40game is still making it and still

1:11:41produce impacts and stuff like that

1:11:44I i used to play it with my friends you

1:11:46know during the whole massive pokemon

1:11:48phase

1:11:49mmm yes that's the only one I've ever

1:11:51played but i remember when i would buy

1:11:53my packs that magic were always in the

1:11:55same cases from the places that i bought

1:11:57them from that's how I know about magic

1:11:59because it was always there when I was

1:12:01buying the booster packs for the pokemon

1:12:04I'm so i was looking at ya when you

1:12:08gonna get that shiny Charizard that was

1:12:10the cars and that was the card

1:12:15oh and of course i just realized

1:12:17everyone will want to know all the magic

1:12:19players will want to know when I played

1:12:21magic my preferred colors were blue and

1:12:24black

1:12:25so yeah fun memories to play the pokemon

1:12:27game very much anymore

1:12:29no I I don't even have any cards anymore

1:12:31like I don't know where they are had a

1:12:33big collection cards used to love it i

1:12:35still have a box of magic cards at my

1:12:37parents house that they have in a box of

1:12:39a bunch of like stuff from when I was a

1:12:40kid I expect to love my pokemon cards or

1:12:43my grandma's i find it really hard not

1:12:47to look through them when I remember

1:12:49that they exist like I just pull them

1:12:50out and look at them and I guess I

1:12:52remember setting up this deck

1:12:53I guess this wasn't in this is a really

1:12:55fun deco this is the little good

1:12:56combination

1:12:57it's just a thing that my mind likes to

1:12:59turn over and over that you can escape

1:13:03some of that stuff now I have a question

1:13:06I've been wanting to ask you just

1:13:09because it's going to be so difficult to

1:13:10ask the question

1:13:11oh ok so this comes from Allen and Allen

1:13:16says when gray uses this face then

1:13:19inserts character

1:13:21where does that face come from do you

1:13:22have it locally and copy and paste it

1:13:24onto google it every time

1:13:25now how would you describe the face

1:13:29character Allen has used to send it to

1:13:33me over I message

1:13:34how would you describe this face

1:13:36character what is this this is the face

1:13:39of disapproval

1:13:41uh-huh that's what this faces now it's

1:13:42not an emoji write it in a text-based

1:13:45it's more I guess it's not an emoji it's

1:13:48an old-school emoticon

1:13:50yeah back in the day we used to build

1:13:52our little facial expressions out of the

1:13:54characters that we had available

1:13:56you're not that much older than me ice

1:13:58to do this we didn't have people just

1:14:00drawing emoji for us we had to build

1:14:03them with our own hands my autism and

1:14:04created the emoticons and of course of

1:14:08nature would think oh you're right to

1:14:10artisanal now something artisanal we're

1:14:13just chilling them out of characters

1:14:16what is this physical is it got a name

1:14:18that you know I think it's just called

1:14:20the disapproving face i'm going to check

1:14:24out right now

1:14:24so where does it come from for you when

1:14:26you use it you have like a text expander

1:14:27stupid or something

1:14:29it's official name is called the look of

1:14:32disapproval em and if it'll be an it'll

1:14:36be in the show notes

1:14:37anybody who's ever been on read it will

1:14:38know exactly what we're talking about

1:14:40yes it is this stern-looking emoticon

1:14:44face with little horizontal mouth and I

1:14:47think they're ty symbols or something

1:14:48which are the eyes but that end up just

1:14:50looking like eyes that are staring into

1:14:52your soul with furrowed brows but I came

1:14:56I came across this on reddit you know

1:14:58ages and ages ago and i think that it is

1:15:00just an absolute perfect emoticon for

1:15:04very many situations and so i have it

1:15:07set up as one of those at the sinking

1:15:09keyboard shortcuts that Apple has yes so

1:15:13i can i can whip it out at the

1:15:16appropriate moment immediately that sort

1:15:19of my type i don't even know I just

1:15:20built into my

1:15:22now thinking about it don't do it okay

1:15:27what am I type I type D is Q and that is

1:15:31my little shortcut for disapproval face

1:15:34mhm and so the the moment that I need to

1:15:38over the internet glare at someone with

1:15:40a disapproving face

1:15:41I have it right at my fingertips room 33

1:15:44ask are there any side projects that

1:15:47gray wishes would have been the big

1:15:49things take off instead of YouTube

1:15:50that's an interesting question the the

1:15:53thing that's that's tricky to answer

1:15:56about that is to express appropriately

1:15:58my feelings towards all of the projects

1:16:02that I worked on and my feelings of them

1:16:04is I love them as much as they have been

1:16:06successful and so like I really like the

1:16:11YouTube project because it has been

1:16:14really successful and I'd I don't have a

1:16:17feeling toward any of the past projects

1:16:19of oh I wish this one had been the one

1:16:23to catch on

1:16:25it's more feeling like I worked on this

1:16:27thing for a while and it didn't really

1:16:29go anywhere and then I moved on to the

1:16:32next thing and so no I don't I don't

1:16:37look backward on it and in that way it

1:16:41it

1:16:44i I don't know if this is the best

1:16:46analogy but i always think of it as like

1:16:47placing bets on a table and so this

1:16:50question is almost like asking do you

1:16:53wish that any of the bets that you had

1:16:55previously made had paid off so well I

1:16:59think you're thinking about this in the

1:17:01wrong way if you know you're placing a

1:17:03bunch of bets and you're hoping that

1:17:05some of them are successful and then you

1:17:08are happy when one of them turns out to

1:17:10be successful but you don't you don't

1:17:13think about like oh that black 32 six

1:17:17weeks ago I really wish that had been

1:17:18the one I guess it's much more of a like

1:17:21a system than it is a series of events

1:17:24that that's kind of where I think about

1:17:26it yet because it was always about which

1:17:28one will be the one to provide the the

1:17:31result you're looking for right which

1:17:34was to be able to control my own

1:17:36schedule

1:17:36well and work on my own right like that

1:17:38was the thing that I was aiming for and

1:17:42the various projects were different

1:17:44attempts to to try and get there like I

1:17:48did you know maybe we maybe we can talk

1:17:49about it in more detail on some future

1:17:53maybe past show I don't know what we

1:17:55will have spoken about it but i think

1:17:59the the closest thing that it to that is

1:18:02a feeling of it was actually frustrating

1:18:04more for some of the projects that were

1:18:07partially paying off because i feel like

1:18:10those were things that sucked up a lot

1:18:13of my time because it felt like our man

1:18:16if I can make this a little bigger

1:18:18this will be great and so in some sense

1:18:21i prefer the things that i worked on

1:18:23that were immediately obviously terrible

1:18:26ideas that just didn't work whereas i

1:18:29had for a while there I had a few things

1:18:31that I was working on was like I'm

1:18:32learning a little bit of money from this

1:18:34and I'm running a little bit of money

1:18:35from that and I had this is this very

1:18:37frustrating feeling of like like can I

1:18:39just Kabul this together or can I make

1:18:40this twice as big and so those in a

1:18:44sense were bets that in a way we're like

1:18:46more unsuccessful than my just

1:18:49straight-up unsuccessful bets because

1:18:52they were not winners and they also took

1:18:55up a bunch of my time

1:18:56all right Tobias wants to know if we

1:18:58make all beds every morning I already

1:19:01know from surprising you on facetime

1:19:04that one time should have seen this

1:19:05coming

1:19:06that you do not make your bed every

1:19:07morning I don't make my bed everyone

1:19:09one of the great pleasures in my life is

1:19:13the fact that it doesn't bother my

1:19:14girlfriend about if that is made you are

1:19:18a lucky man then that never of us seem

1:19:20to care about it every now and then

1:19:22we'll do it but like hang on a second

1:19:24ya know it's an absolute disaster right

1:19:26now it's right behind you right now it's

1:19:30right behind me right now we're both

1:19:31pretty cool about that i think it maybe

1:19:33she's I don't know harboring some kind

1:19:35of resentment towards me that I'm not

1:19:37aware of yet great power point is idea

1:19:39it's very possible i think everyone in

1:19:41my life has some kind of resentment

1:19:43towards me now I've got some data that

1:19:45says so right now but no I don't make my

1:19:50bed every morning I bet you do

1:19:54so you I used to not because I used to

1:19:59fall under the category of what is this

1:20:01matter i'm just going to mess it up

1:20:02later anyway yeah him and I think that

1:20:05is there's a totally reasonable position

1:20:06my camera i came across it but at some

1:20:09point i came across on a podcaster some

1:20:11something someone was really selling the

1:20:13idea of you need to make your bed every

1:20:16morning and I'm always open to trying

1:20:21stuff like I can't remember what they

1:20:23said but whatever they said it I felt

1:20:24like it was convincing and so I went

1:20:27through a period where i was going

1:20:30through an effort of making sure that

1:20:31the bed was made every morning and say

1:20:34oh this does seem to have intangible

1:20:40benefits that I cannot quite quantify

1:20:43that do make making the bed worthwhile

1:20:48it's again hard to put into words but it

1:20:52feels like it is definitely something

1:20:54and so I now do try to make the bed in

1:20:59the morning if it is unmade there's a

1:21:01there's a little bit of a little bit of

1:21:02a thing here with the morning schedule

1:21:03that I am usually up and out of the

1:21:05house before my wife is even awake and

1:21:08then it depends on like she has varying

1:21:10schedules about when she needs to be

1:21:12someplace in the morning so sometimes

1:21:13she makes the bed sometimes she doesn't

1:21:14have time and if i come home and i see

1:21:16the bed is unmade i will sometimes try

1:21:18to make it like what I don't know like

1:21:20randomly sometimes the better

1:21:21we made it sometimes it will be unmade

1:21:23but the thing that my wife has noticed

1:21:27is that i am not perfectly consistent

1:21:29about making the bed in a way that I

1:21:31don't notice but of course she is aware

1:21:33and she is able to use the maid miss of

1:21:38the bed as a proxy for how on top of his

1:21:42life does my husband feel night Mariano

1:21:45home line right there my friend that's

1:21:46exactly it

1:21:47so I don't know maybe maybe

1:21:50intentionally she leaves the bed unmade

1:21:52sometimes as like a little test to see

1:21:55is he feeling really busy and

1:21:57overwhelmed right now so overwhelmed

1:21:58that he's not going to make the bed or

1:22:00is he feeling totally on top of things I

1:22:02guess I'll know when I'll come home

1:22:03maybe that's what she does

1:22:04I don't know gray yeah it's a trap