0:00:00so listen ian has found the perfect new
0:00:02game for you
0:00:03oh yes what is it so you know in the
0:00:05past you spoken about the fact that you
0:00:07like games that feel like work you know
0:00:09like you like truck simulator 2
0:00:11factorial like work games
0:00:13yeah their work simulator games in my
0:00:15mind what we found the ultimate cgpgrey
0:00:17work simulator is called youtubers life
0:00:20you to his life is the ultimate life
0:00:23simulation tycoon via game in which you
0:00:25become the world's greatest video
0:00:26blogger in history edit videos
0:00:28expand the amount of fans and turn
0:00:30yourself into a wealthy fellow that
0:00:34sounds horrible
0:00:34super day at work imitates life imitates
0:00:37work imitates life that little little
0:00:40too close to home
0:00:41the screenshots are amazing because they
0:00:43show a bedroom with an unmade bed and
0:00:46somebody working on a computer
0:00:48remarkably by total coincidence i
0:00:51watched PewDiePie do a playthrough of
0:00:54YouTube simulator just yesterday
0:00:58oh really it showed up in that here's
0:01:00what YouTube thinks you should watch
0:01:02section they were really write the right
0:01:05like that sometimes that YouTube thing
0:01:06freaks me out because they're like oh
0:01:08yeah i know i would like to see that
0:01:10video thank you so much YouTube right
0:01:12well this this one strike me as
0:01:14particularly funny because it's it's i
0:01:16am not subscribed to PewDiePie i have
0:01:19probably watched fewer than five maybe
0:01:22ten of his videos ever and but youtube
0:01:26just knows right there little algorithms
0:01:28their data algorithms simply know hey
0:01:30we're going to suggest you a peopie
0:01:33video that you cannot possibly resist on
0:01:35clicking and they were correct and i
0:01:36clicked it and i watched it and they
0:01:38were right it was very entertaining
0:01:39video but what do you think of youtubers
0:01:43life I will never play a game like that
0:01:46it looks it looks terrible it looks like
0:01:49the kind of work simulator that I hate
0:01:51which is not really work simulator it's
0:01:53just the game randomly rewarding you at
0:01:56times with stuff i don't know I I have
0:02:00no interest in ever playing that game
0:02:01but i can recommend PewDiePie's video
0:02:03where he plays that game like he's very
0:02:06good
0:02:06he's very funny and he turns it into a
0:02:09bizarre meta commentary on his own life
0:02:13as a youtuber so of course he ends up
0:02:15making a little character that looks
0:02:17just like him and just makes all of
0:02:20these comments about feeding the Machine
0:02:22and gotta keep going there's a reason
0:02:24that guys number one youtuber I wouldn't
0:02:26watch all these videos they're not all
0:02:27for me but anybody who thinks he's just
0:02:30an idiot playing video games in his room
0:02:32like you don't understand what this man
0:02:33is doing
0:02:34you don't understand what he's doing
0:02:35when we talk about that talent thing and
0:02:38when we were talking about a long time
0:02:39ago about having that spark and we use
0:02:42them k PhD is a an example of that from
0:02:44his first video right right little
0:02:46little tiny twelve-year-old mkbhd yeah
0:02:49PewDiePie doesn't really have a sparky
0:02:51has a fire
0:02:52yeah like that man there's there is no
0:02:54doubt absolutely no doubt whether you
0:02:56don't like these videos are not you
0:02:58cannot deny that they are well made
0:02:59their well made and that he is just
0:03:03engaging I'm engaging in this way that
0:03:06is difficult to describe
0:03:07yep yes really youtube algorithms you
0:03:11know you know what I wanted even and I
0:03:13didn't know what I wanted and what I
0:03:15wanted was watching the number one
0:03:16youtuber play youtube simulation game
0:03:19this is an episode out of time
0:03:22indeed it is Mike because from my
0:03:25perspective this is insanity because i
0:03:29just spoke to you yesterday we did we
0:03:32just did an episode yesterday we did our
0:03:34cortex versuri episode yesterday for
0:03:38people who are interested in the cortex
0:03:44annuity of the show
0:03:45I'm so proud of you right now but then
0:03:48again in service and this episode you
0:03:54are probably listening to sometime in
0:03:56july maybe august i don't even know
0:03:59where this is going to happen so people
0:04:01will be listening to this at some point
0:04:03in the late summer
0:04:05mhm months after we are recording it yep
0:04:09so this is what will be passed me
0:04:14talking to you after what is intended to
0:04:17be a very long very busy very unusual
0:04:22summer for me which is part of the
0:04:23reason why
0:04:24you're recording this well ahead of time
0:04:26but it makes the verb usage here seem
0:04:30very strange like in the future i will
0:04:33have had done things that we will
0:04:37certainly have had already talked about
0:04:40Anya shows we will record but from the
0:04:44perspective of people listening we've
0:04:46already recorded and they have already
0:04:47listened to because it's very confusing
0:04:49because in theory now looking to the
0:04:54future so that people can judge our
0:04:56predictions we have participated in real
0:05:00icon to gether right we will have been
0:05:02to relay con you have been to VidCon i
0:05:06will have been to VidCon we will is
0:05:08recorded off first in-person episode of
0:05:11cortex
0:05:11that's right as well and now we are
0:05:15approaching the second annual court xmas
0:05:18very confusing it is all very confusing
0:05:22and the very fact that i'm going to
0:05:25relay khan and the very fact that i'm
0:05:27going to VidCon are things that i have
0:05:29stated publicly nowhere at this stage
0:05:32which is what makes it all the more
0:05:33exciting dimension
0:05:35it's like a fun little secret at this
0:05:38moment I i may not even mention anything
0:05:41about being at VidCon until after I have
0:05:44left I don't know we'll have to see him
0:05:46listener will already know if I did or
0:05:47didn't yep haha but that might be a
0:05:50surprise so yeah it's it's just it's a
0:05:54strange thing but we are trying to plan
0:05:57in advance for what is going to be a a
0:06:00busy summer so the reason we are
0:06:02recording this is because there's going
0:06:04to be just a ton of stuff going on and I
0:06:08know that later in the summer in
0:06:10addition to all of this crazy business
0:06:11stuff i also have a ton of family stuff
0:06:14that I'm doing later in the summer so
0:06:16this very morning for this episode I was
0:06:19actually telling up
0:06:20what is the theoretical number of
0:06:22flights that I am taking this summer and
0:06:24I haven't bought them that there's a
0:06:26there's a few events in a few things
0:06:27that are still a bit uncertain but i
0:06:29will be taking no fewer than eight and
0:06:32no more than 14 flights this summer
0:06:34why
0:06:34my blood yeah I know it's it is quite a
0:06:38lot but that is high a little while ago
0:06:42I said Mike we need it we need to talk
0:06:44about the summer cortex schedule and
0:06:47that is why this episode is happening
0:06:49right now also because mean you have
0:06:53been for something like this already so
0:06:56last year you were away for a lot of the
0:06:58summer and we didn't prepare for it and
0:07:02it was a nightmare yet last summer last
0:07:06summer was a bit of a disaster and very
0:07:08many ways for me probably one of the
0:07:10biggest ways was that somehow i don't
0:07:13really know how but you convinced me not
0:07:16only where we going to launch cortex
0:07:19last summer but we're also going to be
0:07:21doing weekly episodes which was insanity
0:07:24I don't know how you convinced me of
0:07:25this i don't know why past me would have
0:07:28agreed to such a thing but how was way
0:07:31way too many episodes to be doing at
0:07:35once but we tried and then we had to try
0:07:38and squeeze it into a schedule and you
0:07:41are on standby flights arriving at we're
0:07:43days it was it was a nightmare so we
0:07:47also we have learned together and are
0:07:49working together over the last year or
0:07:51so and we are now recording an episode
0:07:54about time
0:07:56yes that is what this episode is but
0:07:57there is an interesting lesson in there
0:07:59i think about the whole idea of this
0:08:02thing existing is that we are
0:08:04collaborating better now than we have
0:08:08before because we now understand the
0:08:11habits and patterns of each other and we
0:08:14are working to respect those so I know
0:08:19that you'll be traveling and you know
0:08:22that I want an episode right with with
0:08:24what Mike is trying to say here
0:08:26listeners is a respected Mike knows that
0:08:29i want a bunch of time off this summer
0:08:31not the michael has a bunch of episodes
0:08:33that summer we have these mutually
0:08:36incompatible desires and so we have
0:08:38compromised on one court xmas there was
0:08:42going to be one fewer episode of cortex
0:08:44the summer and also doing this episode
0:08:48code in advance so this is the thing
0:08:50this is the compromise that we have come
0:08:52to this is another one of those CEO to
0:08:55CEO discussions that we had that we've
0:08:57mentioned in the past which again I will
0:08:59underscore the importance of anybody who
0:09:02is self-employed working with
0:09:03self-employed people that it is very
0:09:05very useful to be able to have these
0:09:07conversations so useful so useful and we
0:09:10were able to come to an agreement
0:09:12because I wanted more episodes then
0:09:15we're doing and you wanted more time
0:09:16often you have so we can take me to a
0:09:20compromise
0:09:21uh-huh yes we did come to a compromise
0:09:23because as we may discuss later in the
0:09:26episode in theory i would just like the
0:09:28whole summer off i would like the whole
0:09:29summer off to LA and I can't eat right
0:09:34that's not how it looks right but that's
0:09:36what I mean right here and that is there
0:09:38are all of these various constraints and
0:09:40things in life i do also just want to
0:09:42again reiterate your point to anybody
0:09:44listening who is self-employed works
0:09:46with the people I i really think if you
0:09:50can try to introduce the the explicit
0:09:54language like that can we will say like
0:09:57we are talking CEO to co now like do
0:10:01that as a mode shift when you're having
0:10:04a business conversation with someone it
0:10:06is hard to express how much easier and
0:10:09clearer that makes things it really
0:10:12really does
0:10:13I i highly highly recommend anybody
0:10:16working with other people like trying to
0:10:18do that try to institute that as a
0:10:20company culture in both of your
0:10:22company's it's extraordinarily
0:10:23beneficial and just makes things much
0:10:25easier but yeah so in addition to this
0:10:27being a bit of a negotiation between the
0:10:29two of us
0:10:30this is also one of these cases for me
0:10:34where it's important to know yourself
0:10:38and i found myself as this summer was
0:10:43approaching really constantly thinking
0:10:47back towards last summer and just
0:10:50realizing how last summer was a bit of a
0:10:52disaster across all fronts like this
0:10:56summer I had a bunch of family
0:10:57responsibilities and also about
0:10:59of work responsibilities so there was
0:11:00cortex is also the Helena podcast is
0:11:03also the youtube videos that I did
0:11:04there's some other business stuff and
0:11:07also a bunch of family things and last
0:11:11summer i just did a frankly terrible job
0:11:14of trying to manage all of those things
0:11:16and as a result i had a kind of grumpy
0:11:19summer I felt that I was not doing
0:11:21necessarily really great with a lot of
0:11:24the business side of things and then I
0:11:26also felt that I wasn't doing really
0:11:28great with a lot of the family
0:11:29responsibilities like it was just torn
0:11:31between these two different worlds and
0:11:35not being able to give either that the
0:11:38time and the mental energy that they
0:11:41required and so I think this is this is
0:11:45such an important skill in life is to be
0:11:48able to look on a thing objectively
0:11:51evaluate yourself on it to recognize oh
0:11:54I didn't do very well last summer with
0:11:56these kinds of things and then think
0:11:58forward to the Future about what are the
0:12:00structural changes that can be done to
0:12:03improve the situation and so reducing
0:12:07the number of cortex episodes by one and
0:12:10also doing one in advance like we're
0:12:11doing now like that is one thing that is
0:12:13definitely happening and i'm doing a
0:12:15similar thing with hello internet i
0:12:18think one maybe two i still have to
0:12:21finalize it but there's going to be a
0:12:22few fewer episodes than would otherwise
0:12:25be normal
0:12:26over the course of the year during the
0:12:27summer and i'm also making a conscious
0:12:29decision like I do most summers to
0:12:31intentionally do one fewer video then in
0:12:35theory would come out over the same
0:12:38three-month span if i was working
0:12:40another point in the year and I feel
0:12:44like this is one of those times where
0:12:45well i have a bunch of things to do this
0:12:48summer in particular is going to be
0:12:50filled with a huge amount of social time
0:12:54and family time like I always find that
0:12:56very energy-intensive and so i am not
0:13:01like last year going to think i can just
0:13:03truck through this like normal i'm just
0:13:06i'm just going to keep doing all the
0:13:07amount of work that I normally do and
0:13:08i'm also going to have all of these
0:13:10other responsibilities
0:13:11and everything is going to be fine so no
0:13:13I'm going to learn from last year's
0:13:15experience and intentionally turn down
0:13:17the work dial so that hopefully the
0:13:21whole of the summer goes more smoothly
0:13:24than it did last time this episode of
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0:15:11show in the balance of all of that is
0:15:14time off right now understanding that
0:15:18you should be putting your efforts into
0:15:20the right places one of those places
0:15:21should be time off because if you work
0:15:24in
0:15:25Anthony you get time off and you get
0:15:28time off because there's a very good
0:15:30reason because everybody needs brakes
0:15:31right and in more traditional companies
0:15:35everybody takes it and it's all done and
0:15:37like when the company that I worked at
0:15:39you had to write it wasn't even a joke
0:15:42like this was just the thing you had to
0:15:44do and one of those brakes had to be two
0:15:46weeks right later like all things that
0:15:48like you had to do them and I know a lot
0:15:50more kind of new companies these days
0:15:53there are like these trends which on the
0:15:56face of it seemed quite good but
0:15:57actually work out to not be too great
0:15:59like unlimited vacation time you
0:16:01familiar with this
0:16:02oh man I i love i love unlimited
0:16:06vacation time I companies because this
0:16:08to me is is the embodiment of corporate
0:16:12evil
0:16:12yep but so for listeners who may be
0:16:16unaware this is a trend I feel like over
0:16:19the past few years of companies saying
0:16:22there is an unlimited amount of vacation
0:16:24time for you to take you take as much as
0:16:27you feel that you need because we the
0:16:30company we love you and we want you to
0:16:32be happy and it sounds great and I think
0:16:36especially for people walking out of
0:16:40university and into their first job like
0:16:42oh this sounds like an amazing bonus but
0:16:44the end result is that without knowing
0:16:47how much vacation time is ok to take
0:16:50that people who work at companies that
0:16:52give unlimited vacation time essentially
0:16:54take no vacation time that they can
0:16:56never take time off because everybody
0:16:59has this paranoid feeling about how much
0:17:01time is appropriate to take off when is
0:17:03it okay i don't understand what the
0:17:05boundaries are and so yeah it's just is
0:17:07total total corporate evil to do that
0:17:11kind of thing but it is very important
0:17:13to make sure that you do it and that
0:17:15like unlimited vacation time in a
0:17:17strange way is exactly the way that mean
0:17:20you live our lives in and with so many
0:17:23self-employed people right it's like I
0:17:25can take as much time off as I want
0:17:27because I make I call the shots but what
0:17:29happens is i think man right here so I
0:17:33am I have become better and better maybe
0:17:35in the last year
0:17:37about taking some breaks but one of the
0:17:40things that I do which is good and bad
0:17:42as a lot of those brakes have some kind
0:17:44of what component in them one that helps
0:17:47me justify a lot of it to myself and you
0:17:50know i'm definitely not working as much
0:17:51as usual in those scenarios but there is
0:17:55more relaxation time occurring than
0:17:57usual as I laughing before because the
0:18:03comparison between unlimited vacation
0:18:04time companies and self-employment is
0:18:06just is perfectly spot-on and again in
0:18:11the into thinking about my upcoming
0:18:13summer which will have passed by the
0:18:15time people are listening to this and
0:18:17thinking about my last summer that's
0:18:21going on and thinking about just how I
0:18:22spend my working time I am so very much
0:18:26aware that in the past two years
0:18:29this is also an area that i have been
0:18:31just very bad at is taking time off and
0:18:36I recognize that as one of these things
0:18:38that I want to try to improve and I want
0:18:40to try to get better at but it is in no
0:18:43small part because there is a bit of a
0:18:45lull this feeling of like Oh in theory i
0:18:47could take any day off but you never
0:18:49want to take any particular day off
0:18:51because there's always stuff to do when
0:18:52you're self-employed this is this is the
0:18:54downside that we talked about it being
0:18:56self-employed that is very hard for the
0:18:58job to leave your mind or for you to
0:19:00leave the job it's always it's always
0:19:02there there's always stuff that you can
0:19:04do and you know I'll i look and look
0:19:08back quite fondly on my time as a
0:19:10teacher when you had those brakes and
0:19:14there is stuff to do during the breaks
0:19:16like I was always working on side
0:19:17projects or whatever but there was a way
0:19:21that you could genuinely completely
0:19:23leave the job behind for regular
0:19:26stretches of time and that was without
0:19:28doubt hugely mentally beneficial to do
0:19:31such a thing and i particularly love the
0:19:34UK schedule for teachers which is very
0:19:36different from in america in america you
0:19:38usually have a one really big long
0:19:40summer and a few short breaks throughout
0:19:41the year but in the UK it's like six
0:19:45weeks of teaching and then one week off
0:19:47six weeks of teaching two weeks off six
0:19:50weeks of
0:19:50g one week off it's an amazing amazing
0:19:52schedule that I think I need to move
0:19:54closer to that in the future because my
0:19:59current schedule of iwork almost every
0:20:03day some amount after probably pretty
0:20:07close to two years of doing that is like
0:20:08now this needs this needs to change this
0:20:11is a thing that I need to improve upon
0:20:13and it is one of the areas in which i
0:20:14have not been so great time office
0:20:17interest vacations though no it's not
0:20:20just vacations i'm thinking of vacations
0:20:22because that is the area in which i have
0:20:24been the worst at you and I'm also
0:20:25thinking about that because I am I keep
0:20:28comparing that oh this summer would be a
0:20:30lot easier if I could just have it be
0:20:33like my summers were when I was a
0:20:35teacher that's why I'm thinking about
0:20:37vacations but i have been much better
0:20:40this past year in particular of making a
0:20:42really conscious effort that no work
0:20:46happens on Saturdays so I have
0:20:49Saturday's blocked off in my calendar as
0:20:51just no workdays think nothing's going
0:20:54to happen here
0:20:55you know i'm spending time on my own i'm
0:20:56spending time with my wife but i'm going
0:20:58to have one really dedicated day out of
0:21:01the week that i know i'm not going to
0:21:03work on that day and simply doing that
0:21:07has been much more helpful like to to
0:21:11really treat that day
0:21:12respectfully like to not just blow it
0:21:14off and it's very easy to do some
0:21:16low-level work but like no no I'm very
0:21:18serious about this
0:21:19it's again it's very funny in this way
0:21:21like when you are something you have to
0:21:22be quite disciplined with this kind of
0:21:24stuff that you have to take time off
0:21:26really seriously
0:21:27otherwise you won't do it and that is a
0:21:31thing that has has worked for me but
0:21:33like what is it that you do in in your
0:21:38schedule with regards to time off
0:21:39because you have all these shows that
0:21:42you record and it seems like you record
0:21:45shows constantly from my perspective I
0:21:48mean do you have a day in your schedule
0:21:52that is perfectly clear do you do
0:21:54something similar or how does it work
0:21:56for you know haha like well yes and no
0:22:01okay i have no
0:22:03today that is like absolutely no work
0:22:06like categorically none
0:22:10weekends are low to none mm and and that
0:22:14is a regular thing for me there might be
0:22:17some low-level work that I do on a
0:22:20Sunday there might be something like
0:22:21just bits and bobs that pop up that I
0:22:23take care of but it's not one or the
0:22:27other for me on weekends but it tends to
0:22:29be that they are like significantly
0:22:31lower work at a point where it feels
0:22:33like I'm not working
0:22:35who's right but I know there's always
0:22:36stuff going on because our companies are
0:22:38very different from mine runs with
0:22:40people right and some and I like to be
0:22:43available for people if they need me
0:22:45so it is a different scenarios set up
0:22:48slightly differently but I'm totally
0:22:50happy with that I wouldn't want to work
0:22:52any other way and that doesn't have to
0:22:54be any people involved but you know but
0:22:57I wanted there to be that there would
0:23:00have been a way to to run real and very
0:23:02differently than the way that we run it
0:23:05we didn't have to create a slight group
0:23:07that had every hosting for dinner
0:23:10we just didn't have to do any of that
0:23:11you know because that makes everybody
0:23:13much more available to each other so it
0:23:15has 11 requirements to that but that's
0:23:16the way that I like to run my business
0:23:18but what I do is in my theme at the year
0:23:22of less i have two days every two weeks
0:23:27i mentioned this many times where there
0:23:29is way less work and also one week where
0:23:32there is just less work anyway yeah like
0:23:34less shows recording I is specifically
0:23:37stack one week heavier than the other
0:23:39blue and i'm running some side projects
0:23:42through some of that stuff too but it
0:23:45doesn't feel so much like work and like
0:23:47you know the way that you do that and
0:23:49one thing that I'm very mindful of is
0:23:51taking many breaks throughout the day
0:23:53that is something that I put a lot of
0:23:55focus on making sure that I do and
0:23:58working with a predominantly us audience
0:24:01means that's very possible because there
0:24:04are a lot of people that are asleep for
0:24:06the majority of my morning and afternoon
0:24:09so I'm able to do work that is isolated
0:24:13during that time where I'm able to take
0:24:15care of things that people want a hug me
0:24:17for I'm able to take care of things
0:24:19where i can send stuff to people and
0:24:22they won't get back to me immediately
0:24:23and then I'm also able to relax a little
0:24:26bit before working in the evening
0:24:29yeah I think that's I think that's good
0:24:31and it's sort of along this the same
0:24:35lines we are talking about many breaks
0:24:37one of the behaviors i have been trying
0:24:41to be much more conscious about is
0:24:45deciding when work isn't happening at
0:24:49particular times and as I mentioned
0:24:52before
0:24:52for me the afternoons are always my
0:24:54least productive time and while i have
0:24:57been bad about taking a dedicated time
0:25:00off like a vacation
0:25:01one other thing that I have gotten much
0:25:03much better at is is really accepting
0:25:07the afternoons as my unproductive time
0:25:09and deciding to not feel the guilt of
0:25:12there are things that you could be
0:25:14working on right now and to say instead
0:25:18know i'm i am accepting that this is low
0:25:20productivity time for me and if in the
0:25:24afternoon i want to sit down and I want
0:25:27to watch a couple episodes of TV or I
0:25:30just want to read a book or something
0:25:31that is fine because this is the time of
0:25:35day when it makes most sense to do that
0:25:37when you'd be the least effective
0:25:38working on something else anyway and you
0:25:42might as well take this as your down
0:25:45time I try and do this and I do this I
0:25:49still struggle with it the M and funnily
0:25:51enough time so I struggle with it the
0:25:53most also times when i need it the most
0:25:56what do you mean you needed the most
0:25:59so when when I have a lot on my mind so
0:26:02when I have a lot going on when I'm very
0:26:05busy
0:26:06it makes me feel overwhelmed and when I
0:26:09feel overwhelmed I usually need to take
0:26:11more breaks because typically when I
0:26:14have that overwhelmed feeling it's not
0:26:16as bad as I think it is and what will
0:26:19usually happen in
0:26:20is adina will come home and I will be in
0:26:24a bad mood like usually not angry but
0:26:27upset like I feel upset won't be Mike
0:26:29grant peace might even the right word
0:26:32for liking it so it's a weird feeling of
0:26:35like maybe more vulnerable it's straight
0:26:40something is very difficult for me to
0:26:42explain but the only way that I
0:26:43described it is also the high feel
0:26:45overwhelmed and then she'll say to me
0:26:47tell me all the things that you have
0:26:49going on and then I'll list them and
0:26:52realize it's not as many as I think it
0:26:53is this is a very common thing maybe
0:26:56happens every few months or so but it's
0:26:59not something that I can really see
0:27:01until I'm able to express it but it's
0:27:04funny that like the more and more it
0:27:06happens the more that I'm realizing that
0:27:09it's in those times is typically where
0:27:12I'm not taking breaks
0:27:14mm and it's when i'm not taking breaks
0:27:16I'm working maybe a little bit more than
0:27:19I should and then I feel like there's
0:27:20always more happening there is yeah that
0:27:24it's funny you mention that because at
0:27:30just this thing that I do fairly fairly
0:27:34regularly maybe like you maybe every
0:27:36couple of months I don't know exactly
0:27:38but i am also aware that feeling of
0:27:40overwhelm Ennis and a as much before
0:27:44sometimes like just this feeling like
0:27:47there is so much to do and so little
0:27:52time to do it
0:27:54I almost like that feeling is auntie
0:27:57correlated with actually how many things
0:28:00there are to do and so just the other
0:28:05day again this is now months ago from
0:28:07whatever people on this may have
0:28:09happened three times to be known
0:28:11yeah I may have done it several times
0:28:12now but I just the other day I posted on
0:28:15Twitter about how I always know like all
0:28:18things are serious when I feel the need
0:28:19to break out a second to do app and so I
0:28:23I more like if I have this feeling of
0:28:25overwhelming asst i do the same thing
0:28:29that Athena is walking you through
0:28:31of let me let me not look at my normal
0:28:36system let me not look at all of my
0:28:38normal things
0:28:39let me just list what are all of the
0:28:42things that are on my mind right now
0:28:44what are all of the things that are top
0:28:46of my mind that's taking up all of this
0:28:48mental attention and what am I feeling
0:28:50overwhelmed about and it's always the
0:28:53same experience of ok once i write this
0:28:55down in a list there maybe nine things
0:28:58on that list but i often find is I'm
0:29:03feeling overwhelmed or or busy because a
0:29:05bunch of these things are new or unusual
0:29:09things
0:29:11it's not that they're actually i may not
0:29:14actually be tremendously more busy than
0:29:16I currently am but it's just there's
0:29:18uncertainty here and writing it down on
0:29:22a list like clarifies and refined that
0:29:24uncertainty and helps get rid of that
0:29:26feeling of being too busy and too
0:29:30overwhelmed
0:29:31yeah they're there is something quite
0:29:32funny and that you talk to it to do app
0:29:34and I talked to my girlfriend and I used
0:29:38to write it down on a piece of paper but
0:29:39now I know now I i use do out for a
0:29:41little bit in the future come on we're
0:29:43living in the future but yes it's like
0:29:46having just gone through this like this
0:29:49week i had been feeling very overwhelmed
0:29:50when I wrote it all down what i realize
0:29:52is ok i am actually quite busy because
0:29:55this week i am working on a video we're
0:29:59doing these two podcast one which is the
0:30:01bank episode in the future so that is a
0:30:03thing that counts for me as a bit of oh
0:30:05this is unusual
0:30:06this is different the video that i am
0:30:10working on again I can't talk about this
0:30:11now even though it hasn't yet happened
0:30:13is a collaboration video with somebody
0:30:17else and so that also adds to the
0:30:20different pneus of the project i like
0:30:22that you said somebody else you still
0:30:24trying to god don't know why I did that
0:30:26from the people that know right yeah
0:30:30it's a it's a it's a crossover video
0:30:33with Curtis that I don't know why on
0:30:34earth I said somebody else very proud of
0:30:36you right now that was part of my brain
0:30:38really not sure if we're supposed to
0:30:40reveal this yet but no no one will hear
0:30:41this but so that's the thing it's it's
0:30:43different
0:30:44and then the other thing is i have a
0:30:47bunch of stuff that's just related to
0:30:48finalizing and preparing for all of the
0:30:51summer travels
0:30:52now that is a busier week than normal
0:30:55but overwhelmingly the feeling of
0:30:59busyness or the feeling of overwhelming
0:31:01this is was just coming from a bunch of
0:31:03these things are different than they
0:31:04normally are
0:31:05and so when you write them all down on a
0:31:07list you can see okay this is clearer
0:31:10than I thought it was before
0:31:12yeah and this helps focus the mind on
0:31:17what you're going to do and what I also
0:31:19really like about this this process of
0:31:21writing things down in these moments is
0:31:23forcing the list to be in what order are
0:31:28you going to work on it like this
0:31:30here's the thing at the top this is the
0:31:32thing that you're doing right now the
0:31:33next most important thing is below it
0:31:35and then just so on
0:31:36I i find that is extremely helpful and I
0:31:40know I always want to use a hippie word
0:31:42like centering I don't know I i get it's
0:31:45a similar thing i have a hard time
0:31:47verbalizing the mental feeling it's like
0:31:50decluttering yeah yeah that'sthat's
0:31:53actually that's pretty good that that's
0:31:55a very similar feeling of like a
0:31:59decluttering is how much stuff is here
0:32:01maybe not necessarily a lot but what you
0:32:03really need to do is get rid of a few
0:32:04items and better arrange the items that
0:32:07you have and then you realize how it
0:32:08wasn't actually that cluttered but I
0:32:10didn't need to do a bit of decluttering
0:32:11that's that's pretty good
0:32:13that's pretty good so going back to the
0:32:15time off em so the time off the isn't
0:32:18vacations you mentioned TV shows the ICM
0:32:22you do video gaming and stuff like that
0:32:25during those periods as well yeah video
0:32:27gaming actually quite recently it's it's
0:32:29been much more TV than video games I
0:32:32always tend to go in cycles with video
0:32:33games are playing a lot then not being
0:32:35very much at all yet depends what
0:32:37weather is something out that you wanna
0:32:38play right as well yeah thats part
0:32:41that's partly it but I think it's
0:32:43there's also just something in my brain
0:32:44which is more or less engaged by that
0:32:46activity and so I think that the like
0:32:49the video game TV cycles are our
0:32:51opposite cycles that that go on so so
0:32:55yeah those are things that I do it
0:32:57if I'm feeling dizzy or I sometimes I
0:33:00feel like there's something that's on my
0:33:01mind in a in a way that is difficult to
0:33:04articulate and so that's a time when I
0:33:06also really like to just go walking
0:33:08around the city and just just kind of
0:33:10explore go to a different place got a
0:33:13shoe over something in my mind I feel
0:33:15like I often don't even know exactly
0:33:17what it is that my brain is thinking
0:33:18about but going for a long walk and
0:33:21really resolve that kind of stuff and
0:33:24again an afternoon is a perfect time for
0:33:25that kind of thing like what else am I
0:33:26gonna do
0:33:27I'm not you know I'm gonna record a
0:33:29podcast like not every day we should
0:33:31look into that
0:33:32no we should I mean we've been doing it
0:33:34for two days in a row and is one day
0:33:38more than enough
0:33:39yeah this is supposed to be fortnightly
0:33:41that's what this is supposed to be on
0:33:44this show we spend an awful lot of time
0:33:46talking about side projects as i'm sure
0:33:48many of you out there have them those
0:33:50side projects they need a website those
0:33:53websites need domain names Hoover is the
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0:34:14to have to deal with and stuff you're
0:34:15not interested in that's why haha only
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0:34:21focus on finding that great domain name
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0:35:03thank you so much to her for their
0:35:04support of this show and we laugh and
0:35:06what about you Mike like for your time
0:35:10off be
0:35:11I I always just think about your
0:35:12schedule like you have this crazy
0:35:13schedule that I think I could not live
0:35:16with and it seems like your day is just
0:35:18very fragmented yeah so it's like what
0:35:22like what does that look like for you
0:35:24it has been a real problem for me this
0:35:26week mmm
0:35:27yesterday I had a feeling which I do not
0:35:30have very often boredom food so
0:35:35yesterday morning I was very bored and
0:35:39when I started thinking about it
0:35:41what I realized is I haven't been
0:35:44outside of the house
0:35:46mm in five days mmhmm yeah
0:35:50previously to that I was in a relative's
0:35:53house for the day
0:35:55who and then before that i was home for
0:35:57four days
0:35:58so what I realized is really i haven't
0:36:01left the house in two weeks because the
0:36:03times that i left the house I was going
0:36:05to other houses you've been a housecat
0:36:10for two weeks exactly and this is where
0:36:12my there are two factors here that make
0:36:15this difficult which is schedule and
0:36:17location now why was talking to a dinner
0:36:22about this issue saying just go for a
0:36:24walk and but the walk is not the thing
0:36:26that I need
0:36:27it's not being being out of the house is
0:36:30not what I need its stimulation when
0:36:32they leave the house who and just
0:36:34leaving here walking around my outer rim
0:36:38planet right is no good for me that he's
0:36:41got cattle skulls Jack over you just
0:36:43tumbleweed I can chase the tumbleweed
0:36:45down the street but that's not gonna do
0:36:46much good
0:36:47there's not really any benefit to me
0:36:49that I feel for doing that you know
0:36:51other than the exercise I do exercise on
0:36:54don't worry I'm not turning into a blob
0:36:56here so this is like an issue that i
0:36:59have hand mainly because the last two
0:37:02weeks have been uncharacteristically
0:37:04busy because of upcoming travel so is
0:37:09one of the reasons why the year of less
0:37:12quiet week which I'm currently in
0:37:14actually busier than my previous busily
0:37:17because there is travel coming up
0:37:20I presume that this means you are like
0:37:23you're doing with me right now recording
0:37:25other shows in advance or getting in and
0:37:28getting ready in some way for a a
0:37:31Content drought while you are at WWDC
0:37:33and not going to be recording a ton of
0:37:35stuff
0:37:35exactly and also other people like of a
0:37:40co-host and stuff are moving around a
0:37:42lot so there's like it's just a lot of
0:37:43like things moving around on my show
0:37:46Joel we've had news things that we're
0:37:48trying to get ready to do and all that
0:37:50sort of stuff so it's like additional
0:37:51pressures that maybe wouldn't be here
0:37:54usually blue and the other part that you
0:37:56mention my schedule combined with the
0:37:59fact that i am kind of on the outer rim
0:38:00my showed you all will throw things in
0:38:03the middle of the day
0:38:04yeah yeah so we record a two o'clock i
0:38:09record some other shows at three o'clock
0:38:11so once i'm done with my morning work i
0:38:15can't really go anywhere because I
0:38:18wouldn't make it back in time because
0:38:20I'm like an hour away from anything I
0:38:23want to do right so this is where the
0:38:26location is a problem which is why you
0:38:29know when we move which is getting
0:38:31closer and closer one of the key things
0:38:33that we're looking for is to be in
0:38:36civilization as some kind
0:38:38so I won't have to have this feeling
0:38:40because I can just go take a walk and
0:38:42maybe go get a coffee in a different
0:38:43location or they take a nice walk around
0:38:46a nice place to a thing go to the store
0:38:49you know I can do all of these things
0:38:50and they'll be more pleasant for me who
0:38:53but the good thing is I don't feel like
0:38:55this very frequently because I do make
0:38:57an effort in usual times to plan things
0:39:01outside of the home going to visit
0:39:03people having lunches of people and
0:39:04stuff like that but it was very
0:39:06interesting to me to confirm or I
0:39:09expected would be the case which is if I
0:39:11stay in the house too long i would get
0:39:13the boredom feeling but it is funny that
0:39:16it's maybe the first time I felt this in
0:39:20the two years I've been self-employed
0:39:22hmm yes it's it's a funny thing is
0:39:26boredom is a feeling for children and
0:39:30for office monkeys that's where that
0:39:32feeling seems like it would be the most
0:39:33part
0:39:34sent in the population and to be
0:39:38self-employed there's always something
0:39:40to do I I I think boredom
0:39:43I caught myself feeling slightly bored a
0:39:48few weeks ago and i just noticed it as a
0:39:51bizarre feeling like oh I haven't felt
0:39:53this way in forever I haven't felt this
0:39:55way in a really long time
0:39:57yep that's how I was like I put my ipad
0:39:59down and I went poof
0:40:01I was like oh no haha like patting your
0:40:05legs with your hands and I was looking
0:40:07around there's nothing to do there's
0:40:09nothing to do list i have something
0:40:11later on but nothing to do right now
0:40:13I've already watched on my youtube
0:40:14videos I've already mentally and
0:40:16uncharted there's nothing to do
0:40:18yeah this like like my summer planning
0:40:23like some of the other stuff we're
0:40:24talking about now I feel like this is
0:40:25all falling into the category of this
0:40:27meta skill of observing yourself
0:40:30yeah and it is a really key skill to in
0:40:35those moments take note of your own
0:40:38mental state and what's occurring and
0:40:42that i know i think that that's sounds
0:40:44kind of obvious but I really think this
0:40:46is a learned skill to cognitively learn
0:40:51to watch yourself and then walk yourself
0:40:54through precisely what you're talking
0:40:56about here thinking like why do I feel
0:40:58bored and trend tracking it back as
0:41:00opposed to just accepting that boredom
0:41:02is a feeling that you occasionally
0:41:03experience and projecting outward like
0:41:06oh my media is not entertaining enough
0:41:09for me right now that's why I'm being
0:41:11bored like no now that's that's not what
0:41:13it is there's something there's
0:41:15something that you are doing that is
0:41:17causing this in yourself and so then you
0:41:20recognize ago I have been a housecat for
0:41:2214 days in a row now I'm feeling bored
0:41:25yeah there's there's been no external
0:41:27stimulation everything is just the same
0:41:29for everything is just media consumption
0:41:31but things really key to be able to
0:41:33recognize that in yourself and then be
0:41:36able to try to course-correct and and
0:41:39act on that I was also quite pleased
0:41:41because it proved a hypothesis that i
0:41:43had about myself
0:41:45you know and i was able to i was i was
0:41:48happy in the sense i was able to
0:41:50understand that this could happen and
0:41:52then when it did happen i recognized it
0:41:54right and it also just makes me very
0:41:57wary of allowing it to happen which is
0:42:01why you know as dead as we get closer
0:42:04and closer to the end of the year I mean
0:42:06still halfway for the year but you know
0:42:08we're about to be on the other end of
0:42:12the middle right so we're moving towards
0:42:14the end of the year
0:42:15I'm beginning already to think about
0:42:17what does 2017 look like commitments
0:42:20why's this is this is this is perfect
0:42:25because this is exactly what I've been
0:42:26thinking about so intensely and in the
0:42:28past several weeks as well it is almost
0:42:31mentally like well the rest of the year
0:42:34is is kind of set yeah i'm not going to
0:42:36make any changes now
0:42:37yeah i might do new stuff but i'm not
0:42:39going to get rid of anything because
0:42:40it's all planned it's all there also
0:42:42exists will accept it that is it there's
0:42:45a schedule in place yet but already
0:42:47thinking forward towards next year and
0:42:50like what what does next year look like
0:42:52and doing the same thing on a bigger
0:42:54scale of what is this year looks like
0:42:55what his last year look like what do you
0:42:57do again they along with the meta
0:43:00cognition that this feeling of the the
0:43:04project of a human life is to design a
0:43:06life that it wants to live like this
0:43:09this is the ultimate thing that you want
0:43:10to try to do is make your life more of a
0:43:14life that you want to live and so doing
0:43:18the same thing of thinking forward to
0:43:192017 and thinking okay how can 2017 be
0:43:26better than 2016 what structural changes
0:43:30are there that can be made in the future
0:43:32that will place me in a situation where
0:43:36i like my life even better than I
0:43:38already liked it i think this is one of
0:43:40these things you kind of naturally end
0:43:41up thinking about because it's just
0:43:43funny that you say that you again at
0:43:46this point which is essentially not yet
0:43:49but barely halfway through the year
0:43:51you already are quite naturally thinking
0:43:53forward toward next year like that's
0:43:55just something that's that's coming
0:43:56across your mental horizons
0:43:57I think it's you know a lot of it is
0:43:59because by this point in the year I at
0:44:03least accumulates and new things and I
0:44:05want to work on some new stuff so I'm
0:44:08like okay you're at the halfway point
0:44:09now and how are you feeling okay you're
0:44:12going to feel like maybe you've got a
0:44:13lot going on but wait you're not
0:44:15stopping em so it's just a case of over
0:44:19the hump time to consider what next year
0:44:22looks like and it's just like you know
0:44:24how we were talking in January about new
0:44:29year being time to reflect who i feel
0:44:31like in the same vein half-year is just
0:44:34in the time to start making yourself
0:44:36aware of next year just like a little
0:44:39mental clock thing that happens around
0:44:42like okay I've been doing this what I
0:44:45set out in January for six months now
0:44:48now just time to start preparing myself
0:44:51for what the next part looks like i
0:44:53should buy this point in the year of
0:44:55worked out if the 2016 plan was an
0:44:58effective one moving now how do i
0:45:00tweaked it to create 2017 plan right and
0:45:03the the rest of 2016 is in some sense
0:45:06execution on the what has already been
0:45:09set up yet right it's like we're just
0:45:12going to continue to execute what has
0:45:14been set up and then thinking thinking
0:45:15forward toward the next year
0:45:17yeah there's no point for course
0:45:19correction in unless there's something
0:45:20significantly wrong in which there isn't
0:45:23I mean you know your course correcting
0:45:25in some way in that you're getting help
0:45:28yes that's true although i will still
0:45:30say that all of this is falling under
0:45:32the year of less this is fish is this is
0:45:35why that project was set up for this
0:45:37year and two to go even on a1a like zoom
0:45:41out one additional level is another part
0:45:45of the motivation behind the year of
0:45:47last was also also relates to what we
0:45:50were discussing before which is
0:45:51recognizing I have been really bad at
0:45:54taking vacation time for myself and the
0:45:58last vacation time that I theoretically
0:46:01had over the summer I was not very good
0:46:03at doing that I was bad at vacationing
0:46:05uh-huh and so the year of less is in a
0:46:08larger part of way of thinking of okay
0:46:10well
0:46:11how can i setup structures so that it is
0:46:13easier for me to take some dedicated
0:46:16amount of time off right and and but
0:46:18that but even that is like okay I need
0:46:20to get those systems in place in 2016 if
0:46:25there is any hope of rearranging
0:46:27schedules or commitments in 2017 his
0:46:31it's funny to think of these things on
0:46:34such a long term but if you don't think
0:46:37about this stuff you can't do any kind
0:46:39of course correction in our life and
0:46:41everything always takes longer than you
0:46:44think it's it's going to so that's why
0:46:46can take a whole year to think about how
0:46:48can i reduce the number of hours that i
0:46:51am working on stuff while not
0:46:54dramatically reducing the actual output
0:46:56and then if that is successful that can
0:46:59have knock-on effects towards what
0:47:02happens in the future do anything that
0:47:05you want to reveal about your 2017 like
0:47:06to see your plans you don't tell people
0:47:08about I don't have secret plans yeah so
0:47:12what are you thinking about that towards
0:47:132017 like what what is pulling your mind
0:47:16in that direction the same thing as last
0:47:18year so that the 2016 change was cutting
0:47:23a show and reducing the shedule some
0:47:26others em so it will be the same kind of
0:47:30thing I expect like that's one thinking
0:47:33now is like okay that worked pretty well
0:47:36what can I do
0:47:38so are there any shows which would be
0:47:40natural to end at the end of the year
0:47:42and are there any shows which would be
0:47:45natural to reduce commitment in some way
0:47:47maybe who I don't change the publishing
0:47:51schedule of them but maybe there are
0:47:53parts of the process which I won't need
0:47:55I won't do anymore
0:47:57whoever that is planning it differently
0:47:59or editing it differently
0:48:01what are the the changes that i can make
0:48:04to reduce that and this is the thing
0:48:07it's not for me about reducing the
0:48:09amount of work it's freeing up time
0:48:13again Lou so I'm not looking to like do
0:48:16less and chill who you know I'm not
0:48:19getting into the grey mentality is just
0:48:21just chill i'm looking to
0:48:24juice commitments so i can do new things
0:48:28because I like working i like it a lot
0:48:32and a lot of the time off stuff that I
0:48:35do is to enable myself to be able to
0:48:38work more effectively because I give
0:48:40myself the time to relax because i know
0:48:42that helps me but in the same vein I
0:48:45also then try and find ways and other
0:48:47than if this is good or bad to turn the
0:48:49things that I enjoy into work so it all
0:48:52comes full circle
0:48:54it doesn't stop my enjoyment of those
0:48:55things i still play video games for 12
0:48:57hours but then I just doing a podcast
0:48:59episode about it and it feels like it
0:49:01was all ok right getting
0:49:03return-on-investment front retainment
0:49:04time there huh yeah well this i think
0:49:08this is this is a very natural thing and
0:49:15my version of this as well is it i am I
0:49:20know that I am happier with side
0:49:23projects and other things to work on
0:49:25aside from the main things and it's
0:49:27similar thing of feeling that I want to
0:49:31be able to clear time on my schedule and
0:49:35part of that means like and I always
0:49:36have like projects that i'm thinking
0:49:39about maybe this would work out maybe
0:49:40this this would work out
0:49:41I'm filtering them all now through the
0:49:43year of less filter that if they're
0:49:47successful other people need to be able
0:49:48to do the morning to be able to pass the
0:49:50monitor they need to be completed things
0:49:51again very happy to have that mental
0:49:54filter in place but i'm still very much
0:49:57in the mindset of as well freeing up
0:49:59time and very consciously not working on
0:50:01any of those side projects until I have
0:50:02freed up a significant number of hours
0:50:04but then the thing that I'm also
0:50:06wondering about is I agree with you that
0:50:08that vacation time is necessary recovery
0:50:11time and recognizing like I haven't been
0:50:13good at that and so feeling is there a
0:50:15way to aggregate a bunch of these hours
0:50:18together so that in the future at some
0:50:20point i can say i am taking a legitimate
0:50:22one hundred percent week off
0:50:23I'm doing nothing and i am going to feel
0:50:26glorious about it and that will be ok
0:50:29and then after that recovery period
0:50:31going back into the regular schedule
0:50:35because
0:50:36even though again our very first episode
0:50:39was titled I don't really like work i am
0:50:44very aware that I am still in the
0:50:45category of the kind of person who if I
0:50:48don't have something to work on
0:50:50I would go crazy like I i need to have
0:50:54some kind of work to do and without that
0:50:57it would just be a descent into madness
0:51:01there always has to be stuff to work on
0:51:03but there's the interesting question of
0:51:06how do you rearrange hours in the day
0:51:08how do you how do you arrange your time
0:51:11to be most effective so that you can
0:51:13work on the things that are of interest
0:51:17to you and that are also hopefully
0:51:20profitable in some way to pay the bills
0:51:23and to fulfill all of the various
0:51:25financial obligations that we all have
0:51:27what is a great vacation or a great
0:51:31vacation if you will let me hit here's
0:51:34the thing those trips to Amsterdam which
0:51:36we have made fun of various times on
0:51:38this show locations
0:51:41yeah those were in a way my attempts
0:51:46this year to try to do a vacation sort
0:51:50of but i knew i wasn't able to actually
0:51:54take time off to do nothing but I found
0:51:58those very interesting experiences
0:51:59because i was working in a very very
0:52:04focused way but I also felt like I am
0:52:08getting a lot of the same benefits that
0:52:11I would get from a vacation and I think
0:52:14this is this is just simply the again
0:52:17knowing yourself and knowing how to work
0:52:20with yourself and because i am quite
0:52:24naturally and an introverted person
0:52:26those trips were intentionally arranged
0:52:29so that I'm not really talking to
0:52:32anybody when I'm there and I was also
0:52:34very consciously minimizing as much as
0:52:37possible my communication with the
0:52:39outside world and so those were really
0:52:44interesting experiences to me of i feel
0:52:47like i am able to have some kind of
0:52:49recovery
0:52:50while still working as long as i am very
0:52:55conscious about being aware of what are
0:52:57the things that are most draining to me
0:52:59and it's like oh ok well one of those
0:53:02things are unusual or new social
0:53:05engagements or more thing or things like
0:53:07the podcast where this is not an unusual
0:53:11or new social engagement but there is
0:53:13there is something about this which is
0:53:17always a bit mentally draining in the
0:53:18same way because there is the awareness
0:53:20of the audience that is listening like
0:53:22this is a thing that is going out into
0:53:24the public world this is not mike and i
0:53:27just meeting for lunch conversation so
0:53:31those trips are really interesting and I
0:53:34think oftentimes many people's idea of
0:53:37what a vacation might be like oh we're
0:53:40going to go away with a bunch of people
0:53:41to a fun place like that can actually be
0:53:43hugely draining for me like that's
0:53:45what's that is what is going to happen
0:53:48this summer in no small part with some
0:53:50of the family obligations that i have is
0:53:52to any outside observer the the
0:53:55activities that i am doing they will
0:53:57look like vacations but i will be
0:53:59totally exhausted by them
0:54:01it's like oh I don't i'm not doing a
0:54:04whole lot of work there's just a whole
0:54:05bunch of hanging out with people and
0:54:07like oh there's things to do and
0:54:10activities to participate in and this
0:54:11looks like a vacation but it is not it
0:54:14is not if you are me so I think for me
0:54:18vacations at their best are always about
0:54:22limits inactivity or very conscious
0:54:27choices about what is being engaged in
0:54:31that that that to me is what a vacation
0:54:33is that is what I feel like is the the
0:54:36best return on investment per hour spent
0:54:39of recovery received so is Amsterdam the
0:54:43best type of vacation and all is it
0:54:46sitting on a beach for you all that kind
0:54:51of holiday the not doing anything all
0:54:53day what's best then if it's like low
0:54:58low social interaction and low work
0:55:02interaction is you know the Amsterdam is
0:55:05high work interaction
0:55:07yeah I this is this is what i'm trying
0:55:11to think about towards towards for next
0:55:13year is like how am I going to do this
0:55:16and one of the things I'm thinking about
0:55:17is an Amsterdam type trip is very
0:55:22effective because it is it is high work
0:55:24but low social interaction high recovery
0:55:28but i still need trips or vacations
0:55:33every once in a while that have some
0:55:35period of time which is just absolute
0:55:38nothingness and so last summer which was
0:55:42which was quite busy at the end of the
0:55:45trip the best decision that my wife and
0:55:47I made was that after a whole bunch of
0:55:49things we were doing a place we're going
0:55:51like things to do we intentionally
0:55:54scheduled a mini post vacation recovery
0:55:59time by going to Las Vegas and we just
0:56:03rented a nice room in Las Vegas and did
0:56:07nothing for a few days and it was just
0:56:09glorious and and that was a real kind of
0:56:12like this is this is great i can i can
0:56:15relax i can just there's nothing to do i
0:56:18need this every once in awhile of
0:56:19there's no responsibility
0:56:21there's no getting up there is no
0:56:23writing is just a total break and
0:56:26because that is a thing that went really
0:56:28well last summer that is actually what
0:56:30we're planning on doing again this
0:56:31summer is like I have this incredibly
0:56:33unusual busy summer but at the very end
0:56:36of it the last thing that we're going to
0:56:38do is we are once again we're going to
0:56:41go to Las Vegas we're renting a nice
0:56:42room
0:56:43we're going to spend a few days there
0:56:44and we're just going to do nothing and i
0:56:49feel like i need i need a little bit
0:56:51more of the do nothing at all time in my
0:56:54life that i currently have like I feel
0:56:57over the past two years in particular I
0:56:59have
0:57:00had two little do nothing time I don't
0:57:03need a ton of it but i need some of it
0:57:07on a one as honest um somewhat of an
0:57:10interval that it doesn't just randomly
0:57:11it doesn't just randomly occur but now
0:57:14this is one of these cases where I
0:57:17imagine Mike that you might be a little
0:57:19bit different from me in this scenario
0:57:21what some with the mic asian like hello
0:57:26I recently most of my vacations are
0:57:32centered around conferences em and it's
0:57:36because I take my vacations as times to
0:57:39see my friends because very few of my
0:57:42friends live in the same country as me
0:57:43right
0:57:45I'm you do which is great which means i
0:57:47see you often other friends and maybe
0:57:50see once a year or twice a year
0:57:52something like that so I'm able to
0:57:54couple these things and because they're
0:57:55also like interesting locations i very
0:57:59much like going to America and is
0:58:01usually nice places in America that i'll
0:58:03go to for the source stuff and they are
0:58:06kind of work occasions because there are
0:58:08working type things happening but it's
0:58:11way lower
0:58:12I tend not to record on these things if
0:58:14I do it's very few and I've tried exam
0:58:18Francisco largely WTC last year was
0:58:21quite a lot of show recordings and other
0:58:23things happening and this year was
0:58:27planned very differently to hopefully
0:58:29maybe it did who knows it's already
0:58:32happened but maybe it was rather a be it
0:58:34wasn't ok we'll find out and adjust
0:58:36again recording with you was an
0:58:39unexpected thing on the calendar by hey
0:58:43huh that's how these things go
0:58:45it's all about cooperation and I do like
0:58:49though the do-nothing vacation I just
0:58:52don't really plan for those as much who
0:58:55because one of the things that has
0:58:58occurred is me and Deena like to make
0:59:00sure we try and take trips together
0:59:02which typically means that she will take
0:59:05a trip with me to a friend its location
0:59:08and America sent around a thing
0:59:09happening and then maybe i will take
0:59:12trips of her
0:59:13to Romania and we'll see friends but it
0:59:16you know we are thinking again for later
0:59:19this year to maybe take a trip with my
0:59:22family which will be a do-nothing
0:59:25location because i feel like i could do
0:59:30that like when i take family vacations
0:59:32or have taken or would take family
0:59:35vacations I would feel way let's
0:59:37obligated like do stuff with my family
0:59:40Lou that maybe you do I feel like there
0:59:42is an obligation within you to when
0:59:44you're on a family vacation family
0:59:46activities i don't really do that and my
0:59:50family understand that about me which is
0:59:53actually quite interesting they're going
0:59:55talking about this is i may be more you
0:59:58with my family then you
0:59:58with my family then you
1:00:00haha yeah with my immediate family there
1:00:03is no obligation to really do things uh
1:00:05I have a very small family Z so I think
1:00:09that's why I'm able to get away with it
1:00:11but people tend not to bother me and my
1:00:14family with stuff because they know i
1:00:16just have no tolerance for it which is
1:00:19quite nice
1:00:20so on a family vacation I wouldn't do
1:00:23anything like that and if we don't do
1:00:25that trip I would very much before the
1:00:27end of the year like for us to do a
1:00:29do-nothing vacation the house buying
1:00:31process might kind of get in the way of
1:00:33that arm but yeah I i like to try and do
1:00:36that as well but the majority of my
1:00:38vacations are centered around some kind
1:00:40of big activity that brings people
1:00:41together
1:00:42yeah for me and interesting intersection
1:00:45of sort of doing nothing but also
1:00:49engaging was a few years ago my parents
1:00:54treated my wife and I to a cruise so the
1:00:59four of us went on a cruise and it was
1:01:05just fantastic because a cruise ship is
1:01:08an environment in which while there are
1:01:12many things going on
1:01:14I again really enjoyed the constraint of
1:01:18it so well it's not actually a whole lot
1:01:21to do you know you this
1:01:23the internet is unusable because it's
1:01:26going through a satellite and they all
1:01:28actually that's a benefit
1:01:29I like this there's there's not really
1:01:31any internet to use there's very little
1:01:34to do except kinda like sit and read a
1:01:38book and watch the scenery go by and the
1:01:41cruise ship is also a a nice environment
1:01:44oh because it's relatively small I keep
1:01:46bumping into my parents right you can't
1:01:49you cannot run into people and it's it's
1:01:51like an artificial tiny village
1:01:54almost yeah yeah and in this really
1:01:57constrained but enjoyable way and
1:02:01there's always something to like remark
1:02:04upon because the cruise ship is going
1:02:06past interesting places and i just i
1:02:09found that was just a really pleasant
1:02:13a to have a trip that just totally felt
1:02:16like recovery time but also had the
1:02:19thing that is beneficial and best about
1:02:22traveling which is novelty like your
1:02:25brain needs some kind of novelty
1:02:27otherwise you become like Mike was your
1:02:30board or you feel like you're an indoor
1:02:32cat and I don't know is that i found
1:02:35that was just a really great interaction
1:02:38like this is this is this is just
1:02:40perfect
1:02:40this is an absolutely perfect experience
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1:04:39space for supporting cortex and really a
1:04:42fan I feel like we've been really
1:04:44philosophical on this episode Mikey this
1:04:48episode being an episode out of time it
1:04:51has a totally different feel to it
1:04:53do you feel that it is weird right I
1:04:55feel way more raw than usual yeah i'm
1:05:00looking for a very strange it is Rhys a
1:05:04good word maybe the continuity somehow
1:05:08keeps the safe
1:05:10maybe when were out of continuity
1:05:12everything just go out the window
1:05:14yeah but it almost feels like i'm just
1:05:17i'm here in my office just floating in
1:05:22the black void of space talking into a
1:05:25microphone that that is the feeling of
1:05:27this episode is where my perspective
1:05:30because I don't wear so much uncertainty
1:05:31to it
1:05:33yeah what will have happened to our
1:05:35lives in between now on this episode
1:05:37being released we don't even look
1:05:39yeah who knows nobody knows it's just
1:05:43been it's been very strange this episode
1:05:46out of time and I think and we need to
1:05:49try to try to get ourselves back into
1:05:53the regular space-time continuum with
1:05:56some normality and I think we should do
1:06:00that with a little bit of ass cortex
1:06:01that's a great idea let's bring the
1:06:02people back to us yeah yeah that's what
1:06:05it is this is like calling out in the
1:06:06void into the other voices that have
1:06:09spoken to us please tell me that you
1:06:11have some ass cortex questions ideal
1:06:14agreement i do and the first ones from
1:06:16kevin i look at that your voice is even
1:06:18normal now or he's not happy again if
1:06:22the normal Mike voice okay Kevin would
1:06:24like to know what is your relationship
1:06:27with magic the gathering apparently
1:06:30kevin has recognized some references in
1:06:32the video almost wondering if you have
1:06:35played and if you do play
1:06:37do you know what Matt Magic the
1:06:38Gathering is my know what
1:06:40it is yes a trading card game okay yeah
1:06:43yeah magic is a trading card game it is
1:06:48i I'm I'm not it is one of the first I
1:06:52ever came across
1:06:54I don't know how early it is in the
1:06:56history of these actual things of
1:06:58collectible card game I feel understands
1:07:02the one though right
1:07:04like it is the trading card game it
1:07:07feels like the progenitor of the modern
1:07:10idea you know what trading card games
1:07:13are and i am I got into magic when I was
1:07:19in high school I think I can't remember
1:07:21how but it was it was right at the very
1:07:22beginning because i remember reading
1:07:25some article in some physical magazine
1:07:28that was talking about this new thing
1:07:30and I thought it looked cool and i
1:07:34remember bugging my parents to take me
1:07:36to some game shops that I could buy
1:07:39these cards
1:07:40mhm and of course I didn't realize that
1:07:44these card games are set up to be like
1:07:48drug habits that he might he's you can
1:07:52get in really easy right you can you can
1:07:54start out by just over here you go you
1:07:56buy yourself a starter deck and it may
1:07:58maybe kid you want to buy some expansion
1:08:00packs and yeah i would like to buy some
1:08:02expansion packs and then next year they
1:08:05come out with a more powerful version of
1:08:06the drug and so you have to buy more
1:08:08expansion packs if you want to you want
1:08:10to keep up with what's happening in the
1:08:12game and I really liked it
1:08:15magic just super fit the kind of thing
1:08:20that my brain likes thinking about all
1:08:22of the different cards and how all of
1:08:24the cards interact with all the other
1:08:25cards and the systems of it I really
1:08:28really liked it but I did not have a
1:08:32large enough wallet at the time to
1:08:35express how much I liked magic and so my
1:08:39feeling of magic from from being a kid
1:08:41was mostly i do not have enough money to
1:08:44play this came i always have to play it
1:08:47with whatever cards i have just scrounge
1:08:48together
1:08:50so I i really i really liked it a lot as
1:08:52a kid as an adult I have played some of
1:08:54the ipad versions of it because that's a
1:08:56much cheaper way to get into the game
1:08:57i'm not super into it as an adult in no
1:09:01small part because there have been so
1:09:04many expansions and so many add-ons that
1:09:06the game is horrific really complicated
1:09:10now if you haven't been following it
1:09:12every year with all the little changes
1:09:14that they make but yeah
1:09:16magic the gathering quite like it got
1:09:18into it as a kid and if i can make a 15
1:09:23years out-of-date magic the gathering
1:09:24reference in my videos i'm not gonna
1:09:27pass up on that you have a plane hast on
1:09:29hearthstone is really fun
1:09:34have you played hard stone yeah I I've
1:09:37have played and suck so bad
1:09:41listen there's never a discussion about
1:09:43how good we are at these things it's
1:09:45just a question of have you played yeah
1:09:47I have played heart hearthstone is for
1:09:50listeners it's to me it feels like the
1:09:54next generation of magic the gathering
1:09:56it's it's all on the ipad or on desktop
1:10:00is its cross-platform yeah right i
1:10:02always forget that it's on desktop yeah
1:10:03it's a collectible card game but what I
1:10:06love about it is they so understand that
1:10:08nobody has physical cards here it is the
1:10:11abstract idea of a card and it allows
1:10:13them to do a lot of really interesting
1:10:14things digitally with the game
1:10:17hearthstone is a thing that is i slide
1:10:19in and out of but i think it's it's
1:10:21really fun but hard stone totally killed
1:10:26my ability to play magic because all of
1:10:29the things that you learn in magic that
1:10:31make you a good magic player i think
1:10:33hard stone was designed specifically so
1:10:35that all of your magic habits will just
1:10:39be like sliding a knife into your own
1:10:43gut when you play the game if you play
1:10:45it like i love i love magic based card
1:10:48games let me play hearthstone and it's
1:10:50well i'm going to die immediately
1:10:52everything that I would do in magic
1:10:54which would be a more smart strategic
1:10:55move will get you killed immediately a
1:10:57hearthstone
1:10:58so I I think I'm probably never going to
1:11:01go back to playing magic because once
1:11:02you do hearthstone it's it's hard to go
1:11:04back but it's super fun i really like it
1:11:07and I it's fun to play people
1:11:10anonymously online i'm not very good at
1:11:14all but i don't care like that's not the
1:11:15point is to be good
1:11:17the point is I'm doing something fun
1:11:18while I'm sitting on the couch in
1:11:21trading card game physical trading card
1:11:23game of a plate was the Pokemon Trading
1:11:24Card Game of course which was awesome
1:11:27they even made a gameboy version of the
1:11:31card game which was great to Pokemon
1:11:35Trading Card Game yeah it's still going
1:11:37it's still a very popular trading card
1:11:40game is still making it and still
1:11:41produce impacts and stuff like that
1:11:44I i used to play it with my friends you
1:11:46know during the whole massive pokemon
1:11:48phase
1:11:49mmm yes that's the only one I've ever
1:11:51played but i remember when i would buy
1:11:53my packs that magic were always in the
1:11:55same cases from the places that i bought
1:11:57them from that's how I know about magic
1:11:59because it was always there when I was
1:12:01buying the booster packs for the pokemon
1:12:04I'm so i was looking at ya when you
1:12:08gonna get that shiny Charizard that was
1:12:10the cars and that was the card
1:12:15oh and of course i just realized
1:12:17everyone will want to know all the magic
1:12:19players will want to know when I played
1:12:21magic my preferred colors were blue and
1:12:24black
1:12:25so yeah fun memories to play the pokemon
1:12:27game very much anymore
1:12:29no I I don't even have any cards anymore
1:12:31like I don't know where they are had a
1:12:33big collection cards used to love it i
1:12:35still have a box of magic cards at my
1:12:37parents house that they have in a box of
1:12:39a bunch of like stuff from when I was a
1:12:40kid I expect to love my pokemon cards or
1:12:43my grandma's i find it really hard not
1:12:47to look through them when I remember
1:12:49that they exist like I just pull them
1:12:50out and look at them and I guess I
1:12:52remember setting up this deck
1:12:53I guess this wasn't in this is a really
1:12:55fun deco this is the little good
1:12:56combination
1:12:57it's just a thing that my mind likes to
1:12:59turn over and over that you can escape
1:13:03some of that stuff now I have a question
1:13:06I've been wanting to ask you just
1:13:09because it's going to be so difficult to
1:13:10ask the question
1:13:11oh ok so this comes from Allen and Allen
1:13:16says when gray uses this face then
1:13:19inserts character
1:13:21where does that face come from do you
1:13:22have it locally and copy and paste it
1:13:24onto google it every time
1:13:25now how would you describe the face
1:13:29character Allen has used to send it to
1:13:33me over I message
1:13:34how would you describe this face
1:13:36character what is this this is the face
1:13:39of disapproval
1:13:41uh-huh that's what this faces now it's
1:13:42not an emoji write it in a text-based
1:13:45it's more I guess it's not an emoji it's
1:13:48an old-school emoticon
1:13:50yeah back in the day we used to build
1:13:52our little facial expressions out of the
1:13:54characters that we had available
1:13:56you're not that much older than me ice
1:13:58to do this we didn't have people just
1:14:00drawing emoji for us we had to build
1:14:03them with our own hands my autism and
1:14:04created the emoticons and of course of
1:14:08nature would think oh you're right to
1:14:10artisanal now something artisanal we're
1:14:13just chilling them out of characters
1:14:16what is this physical is it got a name
1:14:18that you know I think it's just called
1:14:20the disapproving face i'm going to check
1:14:24out right now
1:14:24so where does it come from for you when
1:14:26you use it you have like a text expander
1:14:27stupid or something
1:14:29it's official name is called the look of
1:14:32disapproval em and if it'll be an it'll
1:14:36be in the show notes
1:14:37anybody who's ever been on read it will
1:14:38know exactly what we're talking about
1:14:40yes it is this stern-looking emoticon
1:14:44face with little horizontal mouth and I
1:14:47think they're ty symbols or something
1:14:48which are the eyes but that end up just
1:14:50looking like eyes that are staring into
1:14:52your soul with furrowed brows but I came
1:14:56I came across this on reddit you know
1:14:58ages and ages ago and i think that it is
1:15:00just an absolute perfect emoticon for
1:15:04very many situations and so i have it
1:15:07set up as one of those at the sinking
1:15:09keyboard shortcuts that Apple has yes so
1:15:13i can i can whip it out at the
1:15:16appropriate moment immediately that sort
1:15:19of my type i don't even know I just
1:15:20built into my
1:15:22now thinking about it don't do it okay
1:15:27what am I type I type D is Q and that is
1:15:31my little shortcut for disapproval face
1:15:34mhm and so the the moment that I need to
1:15:38over the internet glare at someone with
1:15:40a disapproving face
1:15:41I have it right at my fingertips room 33
1:15:44ask are there any side projects that
1:15:47gray wishes would have been the big
1:15:49things take off instead of YouTube
1:15:50that's an interesting question the the
1:15:53thing that's that's tricky to answer
1:15:56about that is to express appropriately
1:15:58my feelings towards all of the projects
1:16:02that I worked on and my feelings of them
1:16:04is I love them as much as they have been
1:16:06successful and so like I really like the
1:16:11YouTube project because it has been
1:16:14really successful and I'd I don't have a
1:16:17feeling toward any of the past projects
1:16:19of oh I wish this one had been the one
1:16:23to catch on
1:16:25it's more feeling like I worked on this
1:16:27thing for a while and it didn't really
1:16:29go anywhere and then I moved on to the
1:16:32next thing and so no I don't I don't
1:16:37look backward on it and in that way it
1:16:41it
1:16:44i I don't know if this is the best
1:16:46analogy but i always think of it as like
1:16:47placing bets on a table and so this
1:16:50question is almost like asking do you
1:16:53wish that any of the bets that you had
1:16:55previously made had paid off so well I
1:16:59think you're thinking about this in the
1:17:01wrong way if you know you're placing a
1:17:03bunch of bets and you're hoping that
1:17:05some of them are successful and then you
1:17:08are happy when one of them turns out to
1:17:10be successful but you don't you don't
1:17:13think about like oh that black 32 six
1:17:17weeks ago I really wish that had been
1:17:18the one I guess it's much more of a like
1:17:21a system than it is a series of events
1:17:24that that's kind of where I think about
1:17:26it yet because it was always about which
1:17:28one will be the one to provide the the
1:17:31result you're looking for right which
1:17:34was to be able to control my own
1:17:36schedule
1:17:36well and work on my own right like that
1:17:38was the thing that I was aiming for and
1:17:42the various projects were different
1:17:44attempts to to try and get there like I
1:17:48did you know maybe we maybe we can talk
1:17:49about it in more detail on some future
1:17:53maybe past show I don't know what we
1:17:55will have spoken about it but i think
1:17:59the the closest thing that it to that is
1:18:02a feeling of it was actually frustrating
1:18:04more for some of the projects that were
1:18:07partially paying off because i feel like
1:18:10those were things that sucked up a lot
1:18:13of my time because it felt like our man
1:18:16if I can make this a little bigger
1:18:18this will be great and so in some sense
1:18:21i prefer the things that i worked on
1:18:23that were immediately obviously terrible
1:18:26ideas that just didn't work whereas i
1:18:29had for a while there I had a few things
1:18:31that I was working on was like I'm
1:18:32learning a little bit of money from this
1:18:34and I'm running a little bit of money
1:18:35from that and I had this is this very
1:18:37frustrating feeling of like like can I
1:18:39just Kabul this together or can I make
1:18:40this twice as big and so those in a
1:18:44sense were bets that in a way we're like
1:18:46more unsuccessful than my just
1:18:49straight-up unsuccessful bets because
1:18:52they were not winners and they also took
1:18:55up a bunch of my time
1:18:56all right Tobias wants to know if we
1:18:58make all beds every morning I already
1:19:01know from surprising you on facetime
1:19:04that one time should have seen this
1:19:05coming
1:19:06that you do not make your bed every
1:19:07morning I don't make my bed everyone
1:19:09one of the great pleasures in my life is
1:19:13the fact that it doesn't bother my
1:19:14girlfriend about if that is made you are
1:19:18a lucky man then that never of us seem
1:19:20to care about it every now and then
1:19:22we'll do it but like hang on a second
1:19:24ya know it's an absolute disaster right
1:19:26now it's right behind you right now it's
1:19:30right behind me right now we're both
1:19:31pretty cool about that i think it maybe
1:19:33she's I don't know harboring some kind
1:19:35of resentment towards me that I'm not
1:19:37aware of yet great power point is idea
1:19:39it's very possible i think everyone in
1:19:41my life has some kind of resentment
1:19:43towards me now I've got some data that
1:19:45says so right now but no I don't make my
1:19:50bed every morning I bet you do
1:19:54so you I used to not because I used to
1:19:59fall under the category of what is this
1:20:01matter i'm just going to mess it up
1:20:02later anyway yeah him and I think that
1:20:05is there's a totally reasonable position
1:20:06my camera i came across it but at some
1:20:09point i came across on a podcaster some
1:20:11something someone was really selling the
1:20:13idea of you need to make your bed every
1:20:16morning and I'm always open to trying
1:20:21stuff like I can't remember what they
1:20:23said but whatever they said it I felt
1:20:24like it was convincing and so I went
1:20:27through a period where i was going
1:20:30through an effort of making sure that
1:20:31the bed was made every morning and say
1:20:34oh this does seem to have intangible
1:20:40benefits that I cannot quite quantify
1:20:43that do make making the bed worthwhile
1:20:48it's again hard to put into words but it
1:20:52feels like it is definitely something
1:20:54and so I now do try to make the bed in
1:20:59the morning if it is unmade there's a
1:21:01there's a little bit of a little bit of
1:21:02a thing here with the morning schedule
1:21:03that I am usually up and out of the
1:21:05house before my wife is even awake and
1:21:08then it depends on like she has varying
1:21:10schedules about when she needs to be
1:21:12someplace in the morning so sometimes
1:21:13she makes the bed sometimes she doesn't
1:21:14have time and if i come home and i see
1:21:16the bed is unmade i will sometimes try
1:21:18to make it like what I don't know like
1:21:20randomly sometimes the better
1:21:21we made it sometimes it will be unmade
1:21:23but the thing that my wife has noticed
1:21:27is that i am not perfectly consistent
1:21:29about making the bed in a way that I
1:21:31don't notice but of course she is aware
1:21:33and she is able to use the maid miss of
1:21:38the bed as a proxy for how on top of his
1:21:42life does my husband feel night Mariano
1:21:45home line right there my friend that's
1:21:46exactly it
1:21:47so I don't know maybe maybe
1:21:50intentionally she leaves the bed unmade
1:21:52sometimes as like a little test to see
1:21:55is he feeling really busy and
1:21:57overwhelmed right now so overwhelmed
1:21:58that he's not going to make the bed or
1:22:00is he feeling totally on top of things I
1:22:02guess I'll know when I'll come home
1:22:03maybe that's what she does
1:22:04I don't know gray yeah it's a trap