The Incomparable

221: Do the Hand-Wavy Thing


00:00:00   the incomparable number 221 November [TS]

00:00:11   welcome back everybody to the [TS]

00:00:13   incomparable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

00:00:15   L and we're here as we like to do every [TS]

00:00:17   year to wrap up the latest season of [TS]

00:00:21   doctor who and joining me to talk about [TS]

00:00:24   it are people who know a little bit [TS]

00:00:26   about doctor who have talked about it a [TS]

00:00:28   little bit in the past on this or other [TS]

00:00:29   podcasts i will introduce them to you [TS]

00:00:32   now Glenn fleischmann sign in please [TS]

00:00:34   ahoy-hoy Jason pleasure to be here David [TS]

00:00:37   J lower hello howdy do in more'n you're [TS]

00:00:42   here [TS]

00:00:43   it's good to have you I it's a pleasure [TS]

00:00:45   as always and Erica and sign who is on [TS]

00:00:48   many podcasts delivers a doctor who i'm [TS]

00:00:51   glad that you're gracing hours to a [TS]

00:00:53   sharks I'm happy to be here we think of [TS]

00:00:56   you as a member of our family in general [TS]

00:00:57   and that that your doctor who you also [TS]

00:01:00   have that other doctor who profession [TS]

00:01:02   and there's about 15 podcast got a lot [TS]

00:01:05   going on [TS]

00:01:06   it's always nice to talk about dr. when [TS]

00:01:07   you hear it's a little special treat [TS]

00:01:09   yeah pretty much talk about Doctor Who [TS]

00:01:12   any lines yeah sometimes we talk about [TS]

00:01:13   novels and doctor who comes up we talk [TS]

00:01:16   about movies and doctor who comes up [TS]

00:01:17   it's funny how that happens huh [TS]

00:01:19   I don't know how the homes and that's [TS]

00:01:21   strange ok so Doctor Who series 8 I we [TS]

00:01:24   should say up front that you may not [TS]

00:01:27   know if you're just listening to the [TS]

00:01:28   incomparable podcast that we on one of [TS]

00:01:31   our spin-offs the TV podcast we actually [TS]

00:01:33   did a wrap up of every single episode of [TS]

00:01:36   the season there are 12 episodes where [TS]

00:01:39   immediately following the airing of the [TS]

00:01:40   episode we got on the skype and did an [TS]

00:01:43   episode talking about it so you if [TS]

00:01:44   you're interested in in an episode by [TS]

00:01:47   episode guide and you haven't listened [TS]

00:01:48   to those yet i'll go back and check it [TS]

00:01:50   out the incomparable calm / TV te and [TS]

00:01:54   they're all there but we should start so [TS]

00:01:59   this is peter capaldi's first season as [TS]

00:02:01   as the doctor and I think I think we [TS]

00:02:05   perhaps should recap the season so I was [TS]

00:02:08   going to go through the episodes one by [TS]

00:02:09   one and just get a little quick take on [TS]

00:02:11   it from everybody again referencing the [TS]

00:02:14   fact that we have whole podcast about [TS]

00:02:16   each one of these if you really want to [TS]

00:02:17   listen to our sorts of my random [TS]

00:02:19   assortment of random doctor who it's a [TS]

00:02:21   little like another random podcast about [TS]

00:02:24   that [TS]

00:02:24   franchise deep breath it was the was the [TS]

00:02:29   opening think back to august the the [TS]

00:02:31   first episode written by steven moffat [TS]

00:02:33   this is the one where we got to meet the [TS]

00:02:35   newly regenerated picture quality [TS]

00:02:37   twelfth doctor and I there was also a [TS]

00:02:40   dinosaur and there was a skin below [TS]

00:02:43   really briefly dinosaur dad set sad [TS]

00:02:46   actually a sad death of a dinosaur I [TS]

00:02:47   felt really bad about the dinosaur that [TS]

00:02:49   he that was a nice moment where Peter [TS]

00:02:52   Capaldi gets kind of mad because he's [TS]

00:02:53   gonna I'm gonna save you and then the [TS]

00:02:55   dinosaur catches on fire awkward but uh [TS]

00:03:01   at this end and then there's this weird [TS]

00:03:02   subplot with the skin balloon and and [TS]

00:03:06   what we discovered is it's the clockwork [TS]

00:03:08   droids from the girl in the fireplace [TS]

00:03:11   episode that some of us like and Erica [TS]

00:03:14   done some of us don't [TS]

00:03:16   and uh and and that you know that you [TS]

00:03:19   and it was oversized it was like an [TS]

00:03:20   hour-long so thoughts about about deep [TS]

00:03:24   breath now some of us were on a podcast [TS]

00:03:25   we talked about deep breath [TS]

00:03:26   erica was on a different podcast super I [TS]

00:03:29   i want to footnote something I want to [TS]

00:03:31   do a call back in the future about the [TS]

00:03:33   robot we get to the end of this season [TS]

00:03:34   and talk about it okay [TS]

00:03:36   the guy with the clockwork head we're [TS]

00:03:37   going to talk about him later in the [TS]

00:03:39   half face man [TS]

00:03:41   it's been ok it was I yeah I had I [TS]

00:03:43   promised the episodes I felt like it was [TS]

00:03:44   a pastiche as we talked about the time [TS]

00:03:46   but it was very strong opening it was a [TS]

00:03:49   stylistically thematically strong and [TS]

00:03:52   they certainly had a through-line [TS]

00:03:53   everything they brought up the whole [TS]

00:03:54   kind of approach the meson seats and [TS]

00:03:57   everything they did in the first episode [TS]

00:03:58   really did play out [TS]

00:04:00   it really did set the stage in a way [TS]

00:04:02   that i think when i go back and look at [TS]

00:04:04   it now it'll probably irritate need less [TS]

00:04:05   because i'm informed by the rest of the [TS]

00:04:08   season that they fulfill the promise [TS]

00:04:10   that I didn't feel is entirely in the [TS]

00:04:11   episode I just really really liked it i [TS]

00:04:14   know a lot of people actually sort of as [TS]

00:04:16   usual standard you and I I've done it [TS]

00:04:20   we are the yin and the yang Yang Doctor [TS]

00:04:23   Who fandom you guys yeah it's good i was [TS]

00:04:26   in the middle i mostly liked it how [TS]

00:04:27   about that and well and I fulcrum better [TS]

00:04:30   than 50-percent with you in the middle [TS]

00:04:31   75 yeah i like that i like the character [TS]

00:04:34   bits and the the plot itself seems like [TS]

00:04:38   it wasn't that that interesting things [TS]

00:04:40   that i don't i usually don't watch for [TS]

00:04:42   plots i'm usually watching for character [TS]

00:04:44   stuff more these days so that's probably [TS]

00:04:46   why I liked it but still I can't think [TS]

00:04:48   of anything that I would have cut out i [TS]

00:04:49   was i was on the edge of my seat the [TS]

00:04:51   whole time I think I want to pick up on [TS]

00:04:53   something Glenn said there because i do [TS]

00:04:54   think this is a really relevant thing [TS]

00:04:56   throughout this whole season which is in [TS]

00:04:58   hindsight it is very clear that there [TS]

00:05:01   was a plan and the plan wasn't just an [TS]

00:05:03   overarching plot in fact you could argue [TS]

00:05:05   there is no overarching plot there's a [TS]

00:05:07   series of little sprinkled in scenes [TS]

00:05:10   that remind you that there's going to be [TS]

00:05:11   a finale which I i'm not a big fan of [TS]

00:05:14   actually but there is an overarching [TS]

00:05:16   theme of this season and and yes [TS]

00:05:19   discovering who the doctor is and if he [TS]

00:05:22   is a good man and and what his role is [TS]

00:05:26   and is he a soldier or is he a commander [TS]

00:05:28   of soldiers and all that that starts [TS]

00:05:30   with episode 1 and drives through the [TS]

00:05:32   whole season so what you get is not [TS]

00:05:35   really a story arc but you get character [TS]

00:05:38   a character arc and a theme for the [TS]

00:05:40   season and that i really like i really [TS]

00:05:42   like the fact that this this season [TS]

00:05:44   obviously is about these issues and [TS]

00:05:47   they're going to be explored in every [TS]

00:05:49   episode i will point out i had actually [TS]

00:05:51   forgotten about the Missy scenes [TS]

00:05:53   yes I i don't get the Missy seems good [TS]

00:05:55   but I block them out yes well and like [TS]

00:05:59   Glenn you know going back and watching [TS]

00:06:00   it after having seen the whole series it [TS]

00:06:04   does irritate me less but it still [TS]

00:06:06   irritates me but the big tits the [TS]

00:06:09   character stuff that really worked for [TS]

00:06:11   me [TS]

00:06:11   oh and and I mean I love Capaldi the [TS]

00:06:14   minute his feet hit the ground running [TS]

00:06:15   you know I just didn't like anything [TS]

00:06:19   about the story at all [TS]

00:06:21   I the lesbian expert exhibition problem [TS]

00:06:23   with that episode I was like I was like [TS]

00:06:25   you've already introduced the fact the [TS]

00:06:26   same sex and it just seemed like huh had [TS]

00:06:30   two ladies have victorian and it's like [TS]

00:06:32   come on [TS]

00:06:33   and yet you know they were newspaper [TS]

00:06:35   articles about how that was that was a [TS]

00:06:38   notable moment that there was all like a [TS]

00:06:41   lesbian kiss and in Doctor Who my wife [TS]

00:06:45   had the had the point that she was [TS]

00:06:46   bugged by the fact that she doesn't like [TS]

00:06:48   how vastra treated Jenny [TS]

00:06:52   she treats and Jenny points it out right [TS]

00:06:53   that this is part of that relationship [TS]

00:06:55   is is you know you treat me like the [TS]

00:06:57   maid but you know that supposed to be a [TS]

00:06:59   front but you treat me like the maid and [TS]

00:07:01   I said that and and lawrence response [TS]

00:07:04   was it doesn't matter she's I don't like [TS]

00:07:06   I don't like mad ambassador I don't like [TS]

00:07:07   that she treats Jenny that way which I [TS]

00:07:09   thought was interesting [TS]

00:07:10   I like that it's not a perfect lesbian [TS]

00:07:12   couple because sure because that [TS]

00:07:14   wouldn't be realistic any more than [TS]

00:07:16   anything else so so it i agree with [TS]

00:07:18   Lauren that I was kind of like giving [TS]

00:07:20   manifester the side either but yeah [TS]

00:07:22   thnkx booked up for herself and here it [TS]

00:07:24   is clearly a relationship dynamic that [TS]

00:07:25   works for them so hey more power to you [TS]

00:07:28   yeah but I you know Capaldi and this [TS]

00:07:30   will be an overarching will talk about [TS]

00:07:31   Peter Capaldi as we go and i suspect at [TS]

00:07:34   the end to he he is at the center here [TS]

00:07:37   right now I do feel like we said at the [TS]

00:07:40   time when we did the TV podcast i feel [TS]

00:07:42   like the plots kind of beside the point [TS]

00:07:44   I mean that you can actually kind of [TS]

00:07:45   wave aside the plot other than the fact [TS]

00:07:47   that it takes up a lot of time that I [TS]

00:07:49   actually wanted more character bits and [TS]

00:07:52   a little less of the plot bits believe [TS]

00:07:54   in hot that you know it they construct a [TS]

00:07:58   balloon out of out of skin though not [TS]

00:08:01   things unnecessarily I mean you know [TS]

00:08:04   it's a effectively creepy and gross if [TS]

00:08:06   that's what they were shooting for they [TS]

00:08:07   accomplished held it a little [TS]

00:08:10   yeah yeah welcome to a new new doctor [TS]

00:08:13   who where where skin is used to make a [TS]

00:08:15   balloon that it that it was a message [TS]

00:08:17   that carries through the season and [TS]

00:08:18   welcome to a new doctor who and it's [TS]

00:08:20   gonna do some things differently that is [TS]

00:08:22   for sure or for any other people's skin [TS]

00:08:25   this whole season is is darker and uh [TS]

00:08:29   they're more debt character deaths I [TS]

00:08:32   think Steven Moffat was kind of living [TS]

00:08:34   down his everybody lives thing where he [TS]

00:08:36   got swerved away from killing people at [TS]

00:08:39   the end so many different times oh well [TS]

00:08:40   they're not really dead that this season [TS]

00:08:42   seemed to me to be his apology almost [TS]

00:08:46   instantly season 12 is what it was he [TS]

00:08:48   was harkening back to the robert holmes [TS]

00:08:50   philippines cliff area which was pretty [TS]

00:08:52   much this dark i mean at one point the [TS]

00:08:54   doctor hands a guy a gun so he can kill [TS]

00:08:56   himself [TS]

00:08:56   like that's the thing that happened on [TS]

00:08:57   Doctor Who in the seventies yeah so and [TS]

00:09:00   then you hear the gunshot [TS]

00:09:01   in fact we got the room like okay [TS]

00:09:04   that's right the doctor would never use [TS]

00:09:06   a gun he would just accepting all this [TS]

00:09:07   episode where he does he will tricky we [TS]

00:09:09   just handed to somebody else [TS]

00:09:10   sure you would have a soldier to do it [TS]

00:09:12   exactly [TS]

00:09:14   oh god we should talk about into the [TS]

00:09:17   Dalek which is a co-written episode [TS]

00:09:20   supermarket and TVs Phil forward uh this [TS]

00:09:24   is the this is the Steven Moffat and [TS]

00:09:26   Phil forward try to tell a different [TS]

00:09:28   kind of Dalek story right because we've [TS]

00:09:30   seen so many different Dalek stories and [TS]

00:09:33   so when into the Dalek we get the [TS]

00:09:34   Fantastic Voyage we're going to be [TS]

00:09:37   shrunken down by a by a shrink-ray there [TS]

00:09:41   is a shrink-ray in this story and put in [TS]

00:09:44   inside a Dalek [TS]

00:09:46   what do we think of into the Dalek I [TS]

00:09:50   liked it that that was the first time [TS]

00:09:52   this year with the plot really it seems [TS]

00:09:56   like it was gonna go this way and this [TS]

00:09:57   way this way like you expect and I mean [TS]

00:09:59   I've said the Sun several TV episodes [TS]

00:10:02   that this was the first one where it's [TS]

00:10:06   zigged when it was gonna zag and it it [TS]

00:10:08   turned trope upside down on me and I I [TS]

00:10:12   didn't see it coming and i like that and [TS]

00:10:14   that again seems to be a theme and [TS]

00:10:16   seemed to be part of the hello this is a [TS]

00:10:18   new Doctor Who I thought it was I [TS]

00:10:20   thought I don't applaud didn't do much [TS]

00:10:21   for me but I thought that the character [TS]

00:10:24   moments are really nice and we do have [TS]

00:10:25   that moment that of the doctor basically [TS]

00:10:28   sacrificing someone to save a bunch of [TS]

00:10:30   other people which becomes a theme as we [TS]

00:10:33   go along and once again plays into that [TS]

00:10:34   whole sort of overarching officer thing [TS]

00:10:36   which i thought was a good moment and I [TS]

00:10:40   enjoyed the callbacks with the Dalek in [TS]

00:10:42   terms of you know the doctor being [TS]

00:10:44   viewed as a a good Dalek which I think [TS]

00:10:47   also sort of gets played two in the in [TS]

00:10:49   the overarching are completely am no [TS]

00:10:52   yeah I enjoyed the fact that they really [TS]

00:10:55   went for the cheesiness factor inside [TS]

00:10:57   the Dalek had like those big expando [TS]

00:10:59   accordion it was like there was no [TS]

00:11:01   attempt to make it look precisely [TS]

00:11:03   high-tech it was like you know boiler [TS]

00:11:05   rooms like being a ship or the ad [TS]

00:11:08   Nickelodeon TV show or something like [TS]

00:11:10   weird green group and [TS]

00:11:12   and press that button is to hit that [TS]

00:11:14   thing that will reset the memory cells [TS]

00:11:16   and it was kind of nice if I think this [TS]

00:11:18   comes up later in the time heist episode [TS]

00:11:20   to wear if they actually truly revel in [TS]

00:11:22   the cheesiness what they're doing it [TS]

00:11:24   comes across better than if they try to [TS]

00:11:25   pass it for real right it's almost [TS]

00:11:27   metaphorical or irrelevant because you [TS]

00:11:29   just sort of enjoying the wrong i really [TS]

00:11:31   liked it because I have a tendency to [TS]

00:11:33   get bored with garlic story's pretty [TS]

00:11:35   quickly because it tends to be the same [TS]

00:11:37   story over and over and over again so i [TS]

00:11:40   was i was pretty excited that they [TS]

00:11:42   managed to do something different that [TS]

00:11:44   hadn't been done before I mean yes and [TS]

00:11:46   doctor who they have been known to [TS]

00:11:47   shrink themselves and then we had the [TS]

00:11:48   invisible enemy but they never went [TS]

00:11:50   inside a Dalek before and I suppose yes [TS]

00:11:53   you had the you know the Dalek and the [TS]

00:11:55   doctor being compared to each other like [TS]

00:11:57   in Dalek by Rob Sherman but i just-i I [TS]

00:12:00   thought the the rearranging of all of [TS]

00:12:02   the pieces worked really well for me so [TS]

00:12:04   I had a lot of fun with it and like the [TS]

00:12:06   inside the character moments were were [TS]

00:12:07   spot-on so enjoyable on the good Dalek [TS]

00:12:10   thing I mean that is the theme of this [TS]

00:12:11   an episode and people were kind of [TS]

00:12:13   analyzing when he met because it does [TS]

00:12:14   sound like what happens in Rob Sherman's [TS]

00:12:16   episode Dalek with Christopher [TS]

00:12:17   Eccleston's that the difference here is [TS]

00:12:20   that he was a that Dalek was was saying [TS]

00:12:23   you'd be a good Dalek you like you you [TS]

00:12:25   would be an excellent Dalek and hear [TS]

00:12:27   what the what what rusty the dollar like [TS]

00:12:30   love that says is essentially you're [TS]

00:12:33   like us but good which is a real i mean [TS]

00:12:37   that's like kind of a blow it's like [TS]

00:12:38   well you don't want to be like a Dalek [TS]

00:12:40   in any way but that's what he's saying [TS]

00:12:42   is is you know like me because rusty has [TS]

00:12:45   turned around and realize that the right [TS]

00:12:46   thing to do is exterminate the Daleks [TS]

00:12:48   that that's what the doctor is he's like [TS]

00:12:50   that the Daleks except good and that is [TS]

00:12:52   I mean talk about something that's going [TS]

00:12:53   to make you ponder your own place in the [TS]

00:12:55   universe is being compared to a Dalek in [TS]

00:12:57   any way and that fits into the theme of [TS]

00:12:59   the whole the whole series we haven't [TS]

00:13:01   actually mentioned Clara and Danny yet [TS]

00:13:03   oh yes showed in both the Ares Danny [TS]

00:13:05   pink which I was so on board with with [TS]

00:13:08   Clara and Danny at the beginning I did [TS]

00:13:09   not want to romance I was when I first [TS]

00:13:11   realized that the direction they were [TS]

00:13:12   going I was angry and then I watched the [TS]

00:13:14   two of them interact and deep breath and [TS]

00:13:16   I was completely on board and it then it [TS]

00:13:19   kind of went downhill from there i'm [TS]

00:13:20   sorry to say but I was pretty excited at [TS]

00:13:23   first because there was chemistry and [TS]

00:13:25   one way I like the this is the the [TS]

00:13:27   failed the failed didn't date you know [TS]

00:13:30   pulling pulling her away from the date [TS]

00:13:32   that the doctor again this is playing [TS]

00:13:34   off one of the unique things about Clara [TS]

00:13:36   which is she is the doctor is her hobby [TS]

00:13:39   right and he comes and gets her as [TS]

00:13:42   opposed to your traditional companion [TS]

00:13:43   who travels with him she doesn't really [TS]

00:13:45   travel with him right she gets picked up [TS]

00:13:47   and taken on an adventure and then [TS]

00:13:49   dropped off again that's not the same [TS]

00:13:51   that's not a live-in relationship great [TS]

00:13:54   day tripper yeah yeah yeah and so and [TS]

00:13:57   but that leads to wacky mean this is a [TS]

00:13:59   little bit of Steven Moffat scuffling [TS]

00:14:01   sitcom farcical kind of scripting it [TS]

00:14:03   leads to many situations where you've [TS]

00:14:06   got a time machine and she's got a date [TS]

00:14:08   and crazy things happen but I which I [TS]

00:14:11   like [TS]

00:14:12   actually um robot of Sherwood ah this [TS]

00:14:17   yeah yeah this is this is an episode [TS]

00:14:20   that the duh i would say it's divisive [TS]

00:14:22   peccato always devices all the fans [TS]

00:14:24   everybody's got a different opinion [TS]

00:14:26   about every episode of doctor this is [TS]

00:14:27   all this was a super like this is the [TS]

00:14:29   one that went into the time I said on [TS]

00:14:30   twitter i can i can already guess [TS]

00:14:34   exactly who doesn't like this episode [TS]

00:14:36   and why they don't like it because it's [TS]

00:14:38   light and fun and a lot of the [TS]

00:14:41   technology stuff makes no sense at all [TS]

00:14:45   there was a core story with the sheriff [TS]

00:14:46   was actually a relatively clever [TS]

00:14:48   character and reminding me there's a [TS]

00:14:50   classic science fiction story in which [TS]

00:14:52   aliens landed a planet and they [TS]

00:14:54   threatened to devour everybody and this [TS]

00:14:57   one guy two volunteers to cook everybody [TS]

00:14:59   in the town slowly in this cooks body [TS]

00:15:01   parts and keeps everyone alive so we [TS]

00:15:03   celebrated as both the hero when they [TS]

00:15:05   are liberated and not i was thinking the [TS]

00:15:06   sheriff sort of fits that like aliens [TS]

00:15:08   show up and figure out how to subvert [TS]

00:15:09   them to his own benefit this case but he [TS]

00:15:12   was more but he was actually kind of [TS]

00:15:13   interesting character than that they [TS]

00:15:14   were like wait aren't you an artificial [TS]

00:15:16   lake know your real well I you know that [TS]

00:15:20   was actually I was not expecting that [TS]

00:15:21   Erica by the way my favorite probably [TS]

00:15:24   single line of the entire doctor who [TS]

00:15:26   season in terms of fan commentary with [TS]

00:15:28   the title of the very episode about this [TS]

00:15:30   which is robot sure wouldn't [TS]

00:15:34   no that was there was a slash between [TS]

00:15:36   the wood and the apostrophe NT because [TS]

00:15:39   some of us like this and like that [TS]

00:15:41   didn't [TS]

00:15:42   yeah i was is firmly on the difference [TS]

00:15:44   I'd I remember when you tweeted this is [TS]

00:15:47   the episode that I know exactly how [TS]

00:15:49   people are gonna react and as soon as i [TS]

00:15:50   read that my first thought was Graham [TS]

00:15:52   Chapman as the British Army Colonel [TS]

00:15:54   going this show is to city and i loved [TS]

00:15:59   it but it's a romp it's yeah it's [TS]

00:16:01   totally ridiculous Robin ridiculous and [TS]

00:16:04   even more than like the Crimson horror [TS]

00:16:06   from last season which I also didn't [TS]

00:16:08   like also mark gatiss well I guess [TS]

00:16:12   they're among the silliness in this [TS]

00:16:14   episode had does have a lot of great [TS]

00:16:15   moments that again great character [TS]

00:16:17   moments particularly the scene where [TS]

00:16:18   they're locked up in the prison cell and [TS]

00:16:21   the robin hood and the doctor go back [TS]

00:16:24   and forth but who's got the better plan [TS]

00:16:25   for escaping there's a lot of really [TS]

00:16:28   good you know crotchety property dr. [TS]

00:16:31   moments i like the fact that the doctor [TS]

00:16:32   admits that he cheated and people get [TS]

00:16:35   sicker like well how did that arrow blow [TS]

00:16:37   up [TS]

00:16:37   well I mean the whole thing was rigged [TS]

00:16:39   it was so loud it was a fake [TS]

00:16:41   I hated that scene in the investment [TS]

00:16:43   girl with a night of the trigger dungeon [TS]

00:16:45   yes because the doctor was acting like a [TS]

00:16:47   pouty petty was little child and is you [TS]

00:16:50   don't know baby i like it when the [TS]

00:16:51   doctor is childlike I like it a lot less [TS]

00:16:53   than the doctors childish everyone's no [TS]

00:16:55   it's okay but this episode he was just [TS]

00:16:57   being a big baby from beginning to end [TS]

00:16:59   and I didn't like it the scenes with [TS]

00:17:01   with Clara and the sheriff I quite [TS]

00:17:03   enjoyed I thought those were good and [TS]

00:17:05   weirdly enough i think i would have [TS]

00:17:06   liked this one if you had come the [TS]

00:17:08   season before because it didn't feel [TS]

00:17:09   like a cappella the episode of 1000 it [TS]

00:17:11   felt like a matt smith story that was [TS]

00:17:13   just dropped in [TS]

00:17:14   I want to call attention to the thing [TS]

00:17:16   that happens at the end of this episode [TS]

00:17:17   Maid Marian being returned as a gift [TS]

00:17:19   which I did not like I have a gift here [TS]

00:17:21   it's a human being she's been standing [TS]

00:17:23   behind the TARDIS well as the miserable [TS]

00:17:25   we talk i don't know I I don't think [TS]

00:17:28   this is one of the stronger episodes of [TS]

00:17:30   the year but I didn't I i would put in [TS]

00:17:32   the positive Colin only because I [TS]

00:17:33   thought it was I thought it was light [TS]

00:17:35   and fun and this is a little bit like my [TS]

00:17:37   argument for a lot of the Christmas [TS]

00:17:38   episodes is they're trying to do with a [TS]

00:17:40   specific job which is keep it light and [TS]

00:17:42   fun have spectacle on Christmas Day and [TS]

00:17:44   I felt robot of Sherwood was kinda like [TS]

00:17:46   that if he wasn't [TS]

00:17:47   christmas i would have judged I'm very [TS]

00:17:48   different ya see ya [TS]

00:17:50   every day is Christmas Erica not my [TS]

00:17:53   heart [TS]

00:17:53   alright we're going forward device to [TS]

00:17:55   see what I say device not listen is next [TS]

00:17:58   one of my favorite i watched i watched [TS]

00:18:00   listen on a laptop in a hotel room [TS]

00:18:03   sitting next to Glen and I liked it [TS]

00:18:06   no I regularly watch it on two laptops [TS]

00:18:09   didn't we yes synced that's right synced [TS]

00:18:12   up one audio on one audio oh yeah good [TS]

00:18:15   times good times [TS]

00:18:16   listen listen you know interesting [TS]

00:18:19   script we we get young Danny pink we get [TS]

00:18:24   Orson pink descendant of Danny pink [TS]

00:18:27   who's the stranded time traveler at the [TS]

00:18:31   end of the universe back at the end of [TS]

00:18:33   the universal wonder if he's a listening [TS]

00:18:34   to radio signals from utopia while he's [TS]

00:18:37   out there and is exist and in the end I [TS]

00:18:41   don't know and and in the end there's a [TS]

00:18:44   moment that it turns out to be [TS]

00:18:46   it's actually in the barn on from the [TS]

00:18:51   50th anniversary episode which is [TS]

00:18:54   related to Gallifrey in some way this is [TS]

00:18:56   like the hinterlands of Gallifrey then [TS]

00:18:58   but this is that that's the reveal of [TS]

00:18:59   this episode is that the scared child [TS]

00:19:01   who is afraid of the monster under her [TS]

00:19:03   under his bed is the doctor as a child [TS]

00:19:06   which is a quite think so what if you're [TS]

00:19:08   being what do we think of that this is [TS]

00:19:09   also their love chalkboards and some [TS]

00:19:13   very interesting script what we think of [TS]

00:19:15   listen it'sit's this it's the way it's [TS]

00:19:18   the imperative the Steven Moffat [TS]

00:19:19   imperatives episode don't blink [TS]

00:19:21   listen don't eat breathe don't breathe [TS]

00:19:24   don't breathe don't perspire now don't [TS]

00:19:27   put don't wear a shirt [TS]

00:19:28   no don't don't stick pins in your ear [TS]

00:19:31   don't worry classes but yeah I love this [TS]

00:19:33   just because it did take that that [TS]

00:19:35   moment because I have joked about that [TS]

00:19:36   before you know don't breathe don't [TS]

00:19:38   blink don't perspire don't whatever and [TS]

00:19:41   it turned out there's no villain in this [TS]

00:19:43   writer zoo or is always there [TS]

00:19:47   well or else but there's not a [TS]

00:19:49   traditional is not a traditional villain [TS]

00:19:51   shall we [TS]

00:19:52   aureus area where is there is [TS]

00:19:54   there but that was sort of an [TS]

00:19:55   interesting ending and it did not go [TS]

00:19:58   where again where we were expecting with [TS]

00:20:02   all the don't do this don't that and to [TS]

00:20:05   have those moments [TS]

00:20:07   echoing around you know and the speeches [TS]

00:20:10   echoing and realizing that what he says [TS]

00:20:12   to young young Danny at the beginning is [TS]

00:20:15   what she said to him at the end was just [TS]

00:20:21   beautiful and and you know maybe maybe [TS]

00:20:23   it's being a parent now that really hit [TS]

00:20:27   me hard [TS]

00:20:27   if you want to pick a like and [TS]

00:20:30   effectively super creepy scene the scene [TS]

00:20:33   with the young Danny and the thing under [TS]

00:20:35   the blankets when my award as the [TS]

00:20:38   creepiest thing that happened this [TS]

00:20:40   season [TS]

00:20:40   mm and and it never really gets [TS]

00:20:43   explained which where I'm ok with a [TS]

00:20:45   single day without we have a little [TS]

00:20:47   under the yeah what's the thing under [TS]

00:20:49   the blanket it doesn't explain but [TS]

00:20:50   there's an explanation [TS]

00:20:51   no but there's no but it's not [TS]

00:20:53   conclusive i think is our bill that's [TS]

00:20:54   what is left and buries us it's [TS]

00:20:56   ambiguous but it still it works either [TS]

00:20:58   way it's described exactly right [TS]

00:21:00   this is master i like my favorite [TS]

00:21:01   episode this emerica yeah of course it [TS]

00:21:05   is driving me to stay right here no [TS]

00:21:08   Robert Rhoades sure what i thought this [TS]

00:21:10   was exquisite in its construction but it [TS]

00:21:14   didn't have to be a doctor who episode [TS]

00:21:16   to work and maybe that's part difference [TS]

00:21:18   I don't know what I just I I I felt like [TS]

00:21:20   this story was very much it was like a [TS]

00:21:22   piece of art that i just did not connect [TS]

00:21:24   with emotionally it was well crafted in [TS]

00:21:27   many ways it was beautiful it just [TS]

00:21:28   didn't work for me [TS]

00:21:30   first of all I don't like the idea of [TS]

00:21:31   the doctor crying as a six-year-old [TS]

00:21:33   child like that just that kind of throws [TS]

00:21:36   off my vision of the doctor and yes [TS]

00:21:38   that's on me but it's it's that setting [TS]

00:21:41   and disturbing and I appreciate how [TS]

00:21:43   often made every single scene have two [TS]

00:21:46   different explanations it could be this [TS]

00:21:48   this creature that the doctor thinks is [TS]

00:21:50   out there or it could be exactly what he [TS]

00:21:52   says it is in any given seen you know [TS]

00:21:53   the whole is cooling it's making cracks [TS]

00:21:55   you know that that the air is rushing [TS]

00:21:57   out simply because of the difference in [TS]

00:22:00   air pressure you know and I i really [TS]

00:22:02   wanted to see them a monster it didn't [TS]

00:22:04   have to be super scary it could have [TS]

00:22:06   turned out to not actually be a month [TS]

00:22:07   there could have been something good i [TS]

00:22:08   just i don't like the idea that the [TS]

00:22:10   doctor can be so completely wrong that [TS]

00:22:13   always gives me the willies but he's um [TS]

00:22:15   yeah that's the thing it's ambiguous [TS]

00:22:17   he's playing the thing well here's the [TS]

00:22:19   thing we know not long after that he [TS]

00:22:21   sees the untempered schism and he runs [TS]

00:22:23   he runs never stops running [TS]

00:22:25   he is that scared boy this is an earlier [TS]

00:22:27   manifestation of that gives us insight [TS]

00:22:29   into yeah don't get me started on the [TS]

00:22:31   untempered schism either i thought well [TS]

00:22:34   but but here's my question why wouldn't [TS]

00:22:36   the six-year-old dr. cry you know I part [TS]

00:22:39   of I mean purposes of course it's it is [TS]

00:22:42   a show em two kids two and one of the [TS]

00:22:44   things that mind really enjoyed about it [TS]

00:22:46   was seeing that first of all he was once [TS]

00:22:50   a kid that he couldn't cry and that he [TS]

00:22:53   could be scared to even though he's this [TS]

00:22:55   super guy who has gone on to have this [TS]

00:22:57   life and he's a hero whether he thinks [TS]

00:22:59   he's good or not this year but you know [TS]

00:23:01   all these things but at one point he was [TS]

00:23:05   like them to buy any and it also relates [TS]

00:23:08   with him being like I think the reason [TS]

00:23:10   he find so much empathy potentially [TS]

00:23:12   among humans to write is that he is yes [TS]

00:23:15   very human in many ways [TS]

00:23:16   yeah i just don't think I don't think [TS]

00:23:17   young me at the age of your children [TS]

00:23:19   would have would have felt that way but [TS]

00:23:21   i think i would reflect into you [TS]

00:23:24   the opposite in a way to get that was a [TS]

00:23:25   pretty sensitive kid and the doctor was [TS]

00:23:28   like a family member at that point so [TS]

00:23:30   that was it that would have been tough [TS]

00:23:32   and actually I have a red since that [TS]

00:23:34   Steven Moffat had created a character [TS]

00:23:36   called the floof in one of his a been [TS]

00:23:40   one of the novels or something that [TS]

00:23:42   actually has all of the attributes of [TS]

00:23:44   this is character that this this [TS]

00:23:46   creature that may or may not exist that [TS]

00:23:48   the doctor is surmising something that [TS]

00:23:49   can that can hide really well so that [TS]

00:23:52   whether or not it's supposed to be taken [TS]

00:23:53   as an actual thing or the doctor being [TS]

00:23:55   wrong [TS]

00:23:56   I just think it's funny that once again [TS]

00:23:57   we have steven moffat taking something [TS]

00:23:58   from the past and something from the the [TS]

00:24:01   the wilderness years of Doctor Who and [TS]

00:24:03   sliding in you know great artists steal [TS]

00:24:06   from themselves [TS]

00:24:07   yeah that's right the this this is seems [TS]

00:24:12   to be the consensus choice for favorite [TS]

00:24:14   episode of the season which is why [TS]

00:24:16   Erica's responses so fascinating to me I [TS]

00:24:20   I liked it but I did not feel the love [TS]

00:24:23   that so many people did for I thought it [TS]

00:24:26   was fine i thought it was a little bit [TS]

00:24:28   messy [TS]

00:24:29   I thought that it doesn't necessarily [TS]

00:24:31   hold together when you start thinking [TS]

00:24:32   about the thing under the blanket and [TS]

00:24:34   all of that but I liked I liked that it [TS]

00:24:37   was so different and strange and took us [TS]

00:24:38   to so many different places I I always [TS]

00:24:41   people who listen to this podcast me [TS]

00:24:43   know I get people you created a lot of [TS]

00:24:44   credit for trying things that are [TS]

00:24:46   different and out of their comfort zone [TS]

00:24:47   and especially to show this this [TS]

00:24:50   venerable to have it be have brought an [TS]

00:24:53   episode like this i was I think a good [TS]

00:24:56   sign of things to come in this season to [TS]

00:24:58   that this episode is so so strange [TS]

00:25:00   compared to so many doctor who episodes [TS]

00:25:02   but I didn't unabashedly love it like so [TS]

00:25:05   many people that I think time for a [TS]

00:25:07   sponsor break i'm gonna cross the sci-fi [TS]

00:25:10   franchise streams now to tell you about [TS]

00:25:12   our next sponsor a sponsor near and dear [TS]

00:25:14   to my heart [TS]

00:25:15   he defeated the Klingons he suffered the [TS]

00:25:18   wrath of khan and he commanded the [TS]

00:25:20   bridge of the Starship Enterprise [TS]

00:25:23   that's right this is a sponsorship by [TS]

00:25:26   william shatner himself because on his [TS]

00:25:29   next mission captain kirk needs you to [TS]

00:25:32   be a member of his crew william shatner [TS]

00:25:34   has just launched his very first [TS]

00:25:36   Kickstarter project to create his new [TS]

00:25:38   book catch me up and you can be a [TS]

00:25:42   special part of this project actually [TS]

00:25:43   let me do that in the shadows voice you [TS]

00:25:45   can be a special part of this project by [TS]

00:25:48   going to Kickstarter now and becoming a [TS]

00:25:50   backer I've done better shatters anyway [TS]

00:25:53   catch me up [TS]

00:25:54   this is a book that seeks to empower a [TS]

00:25:56   million people to try new things accept [TS]

00:25:58   new challenges and catch up with the [TS]

00:26:00   latest technology William Shatner's got [TS]

00:26:02   a video on the Kickstarter site that [TS]

00:26:03   explains his history and why he was [TS]

00:26:05   motivated to create this project and has [TS]

00:26:07   launched on kickstarter so you his [TS]

00:26:09   friends can be a part of this most [TS]

00:26:12   important mission [TS]

00:26:13   so go to kickstarter.com and type in [TS]

00:26:15   catch me up or visit catch me up dot-com [TS]

00:26:17   and choose from rewards like autographed [TS]

00:26:20   copies of the book t-shirts and even the [TS]

00:26:22   opportunity to spend an evening with the [TS]

00:26:24   captain himself its catch me up the new [TS]

00:26:26   book by william shatner available only [TS]

00:26:29   at kickstarter com and thank you captain [TS]

00:26:31   for sponsoring the uncomfortable time [TS]

00:26:33   heist his neck [TS]

00:26:34   talk about a change of pace for the [TS]

00:26:37   better [TS]

00:26:38   well certainly different right i mean [TS]

00:26:40   just the pacing alone the fact that this [TS]

00:26:42   is a bank robbery heist episode that [TS]

00:26:46   it's on an alien planet that is full of [TS]

00:26:48   variously lit corridors this field [TS]

00:26:53   everyone else like the Titanic what was [TS]

00:26:56   that called a weighted hand and your [TS]

00:26:58   damned yeah ya did this I thought this [TS]

00:27:00   had a very similar feel to it because it [TS]

00:27:03   was a little bit silly it was a little [TS]

00:27:04   bit spiffy and even some of the like [TS]

00:27:06   strangeness other kind of that echoey i [TS]

00:27:09   don't know i did that's what everyone [TS]

00:27:10   tonight is Doctor Who pastiche of a like [TS]

00:27:13   a a heist movie instead of a disaster [TS]

00:27:15   movie but it is that is that is elevated [TS]

00:27:18   that's yeah exactly and since doctors [TS]

00:27:20   11-12 David yeah moving [TS]

00:27:24   I've heard more people compare money on [TS]

00:27:26   the Orient Express to rage of the Damned [TS]

00:27:28   but I don't like with that too [TS]

00:27:30   however way to the damned is one of the [TS]

00:27:31   most one of the most reviled episodes of [TS]

00:27:34   knew who I was her saying oceans live in [TS]

00:27:37   because oceans 12 is awful [TS]

00:27:39   you know if you don't feel consequences [TS]

00:27:40   of the deaths that's when it starts to [TS]

00:27:42   feel silly so like the the meantime [TS]

00:27:45   heist it doesn't feel consequential you [TS]

00:27:47   don't have the emotional people died [TS]

00:27:49   yeah then they come back over to the [TS]

00:27:51   transmat being which we've seen done [TS]

00:27:53   before as opposed the ones where someone [TS]

00:27:54   dies it's an emotional residents I think [TS]

00:27:56   those feels sort of like that's that [TS]

00:27:57   sort of sense so I i really like the the [TS]

00:28:00   highest quality here the fact that it [TS]

00:28:02   that they don't they don't have they [TS]

00:28:04   don't have their memories I think it's [TS]

00:28:05   very clearly on for anybody who's seen [TS]

00:28:07   any episodes of Doctor Who and all that [TS]

00:28:09   the architect is probably going to be [TS]

00:28:10   the doctor because that's what that [TS]

00:28:13   happens i really i really like the [TS]

00:28:15   teller in this in that there's a creepy [TS]

00:28:17   Monster that is kinda carted out but [TS]

00:28:19   it's not used in the same way that [TS]

00:28:21   monsters often are in Doctor Who that [TS]

00:28:23   it's this kind of tool of of the people [TS]

00:28:26   who run the bank and it turns out in the [TS]

00:28:28   end just like in hide from last year [TS]

00:28:31   it's just a sad monster that wants to be [TS]

00:28:33   loved [TS]

00:28:34   this is a good end yeah this true yeah [TS]

00:28:37   that's right i loved hide until the end [TS]

00:28:40   when they nerfed the monster I was a [TS]

00:28:42   little bit annoyed by that [TS]

00:28:43   haha time ice is actually my favorite I [TS]

00:28:46   think of the entire series because i'm [TS]

00:28:48   just i'm a sucker for heist things so I [TS]

00:28:50   don't care about how silly you know the [TS]

00:28:52   giant vents are and like that the fact [TS]

00:28:54   that this Bank really isn't all that [TS]

00:28:56   impregnable even supposed to be I just I [TS]

00:28:59   think Douglas McKinnon did an amazing [TS]

00:29:01   job i think it was directed so well you [TS]

00:29:04   get all kinds of you know oceans 11 [TS]

00:29:05   hustle style shots i actually made [TS]

00:29:07   Stephen watching episode of hostile with [TS]

00:29:08   me as soon as this was done because it [TS]

00:29:11   was just so it did feel very hostile [TS]

00:29:13   like yeah love muscle and then the [TS]

00:29:15   relighting the corridors and different [TS]

00:29:17   lights I mean that is just like that's [TS]

00:29:19   an homage to classic Doctor Who really [TS]

00:29:21   you know running through the same [TS]

00:29:23   corridor again and again I kinda wanted [TS]

00:29:25   to be even more iced tea i think is my [TS]

00:29:27   one my one criticism is that i liked it [TS]

00:29:30   but like well it's hard yeah that wasn't [TS]

00:29:32   a doctor [TS]

00:29:33   it's hard to do a heist in Doctor Who [TS]

00:29:35   because the doctor is so smart and it's [TS]

00:29:37   going to be like not run into so many [TS]

00:29:39   problems like and so everything goes a [TS]

00:29:41   little bit too well from like a really [TS]

00:29:44   good heist film I i still liked it i am [TS]

00:29:46   and i thought that i did find the ending [TS]

00:29:48   a little bit a little bit of a letdown [TS]

00:29:51   even though it like as Jason said you [TS]

00:29:52   know you kind of kind of see it coming [TS]

00:29:54   that the doctor is going to be the [TS]

00:29:55   architect no you don't have to admit I [TS]

00:29:58   did not see that coming did seem really [TS]

00:30:01   obvious I did it but I did see the fact [TS]

00:30:03   that the teller was a victim and was [TS]

00:30:05   going to be a good guy and like always [TS]

00:30:06   and clearly well he was chained up ya [TS]

00:30:08   get my mind if I have a problem with [TS]

00:30:10   this episode because I loved the pacing [TS]

00:30:12   and i love the love the brightly colored [TS]

00:30:13   corridor relit corridors I thought that [TS]

00:30:16   was I thought that was actually fun and [TS]

00:30:18   funny [TS]

00:30:19   my problem with it is there's this this [TS]

00:30:21   weird sudden twist at the end which is 0 [TS]

00:30:24   the directors clone and she's also going [TS]

00:30:27   to leave and did we mention that the the [TS]

00:30:29   planet is going to be destroyed because [TS]

00:30:30   like totally then be there's a solar [TS]

00:30:33   storm comes out of nowhere and nope and [TS]

00:30:35   I will will evacuate and it never felt [TS]

00:30:38   like it was properly communicated that [TS]

00:30:40   this was going to be so devastating that [TS]

00:30:43   that it would end and it was amid all of [TS]

00:30:46   this like reveal of the clone and that [TS]

00:30:48   she's gonna leave and I felt like they [TS]

00:30:51   fumbled that part of it that was that we [TS]

00:30:53   could nvm with the teller is cute that [TS]

00:30:55   the fact they come back in the hole [TS]

00:30:57   da here is that they come back in time [TS]

00:30:58   to see the teller i had no problem with [TS]

00:31:00   that it was just that let that there's [TS]

00:31:02   about five minutes there's something I [TS]

00:31:03   wanted where where it's like that like [TS]

00:31:06   miracle happens here ? cloud-like i [TS]

00:31:08   don't know let's just say some stuff and [TS]

00:31:10   hopefully exactly right [TS]

00:31:12   yeah that that's my problem with it i [TS]

00:31:14   like that they pointed out the fact that [TS]

00:31:16   too many people have the number to the [TS]

00:31:18   TARDIS phone because otherwise i'm [TS]

00:31:21   getting a little bit ridiculous but like [TS]

00:31:23   all the phone that never rings accept [TS]

00:31:24   only every other episode yeah well he he [TS]

00:31:27   outsources Jason I completely agree with [TS]

00:31:31   all of those flowers that you mentioned [TS]

00:31:33   and that is just how much i enjoyed the [TS]

00:31:34   rest of the stuff that I don't care [TS]

00:31:36   about that kind of giant holes and the [TS]

00:31:38   other thing that I really liked is is [TS]

00:31:40   not only is it a heist movie but it's a [TS]

00:31:41   heist movie at the beginning where they [TS]

00:31:43   don't actually know what they are doing [TS]

00:31:45   or why they're doing it or who the other [TS]

00:31:47   people are I i like it when you know you [TS]

00:31:49   you get to find out along with the [TS]

00:31:51   characters what is happening and who's [TS]

00:31:53   got what skills that they reminded me a [TS]

00:31:54   little bit of the movie cube i don't [TS]

00:31:56   know if anybody seen that one but a [TS]

00:31:58   canadian film had a Charlie's Angels [TS]

00:32:00   moment to because it is like all right [TS]

00:32:02   here's your mission that's sort of what [TS]

00:32:04   happens like okay Charlie whatever you [TS]

00:32:06   say except the doctor is himself Charlie [TS]

00:32:08   I will check this up also to my a couple [TS]

00:32:11   people in a couple points in this season [TS]

00:32:13   with a really excellent guest stars [TS]

00:32:16   especially actresses who are woefully [TS]

00:32:17   underutilized in this case you cause who [TS]

00:32:20   doesn't get much to do as the villain oh [TS]

00:32:22   yeah and I'll be gentle gentle glasses [TS]

00:32:24   that's pretty when we are when we get to [TS]

00:32:26   kill the moon to which is my other [TS]

00:32:27   problem she's practically whatever her [TS]

00:32:30   name was Miss foster from the adipose [TS]

00:32:33   episode right it's like saying weird [TS]

00:32:35   right almost exactly our time highest [TS]

00:32:38   III Erica you know this is it goes back [TS]

00:32:40   to my my previous terrible derogatory [TS]

00:32:42   statements about certain parts of fandom [TS]

00:32:44   about but I I don't wanna I'm not okay [TS]

00:32:47   i'm judging a little bit i was gonna say [TS]

00:32:48   I'm not judging but but you know there [TS]

00:32:50   are people for whom those five minutes [TS]

00:32:52   we're all kind of falls apart will sour [TS]

00:32:54   the entire episode and then there are [TS]

00:32:56   people who are like yeah it was fun [TS]

00:32:58   that part doesn't make any sense but it [TS]

00:32:59   was unbalanced so fun that I didn't care [TS]

00:33:02   and I fall into that camp with this is [TS]

00:33:04   like I i wish that five minutes had made [TS]

00:33:06   more sense because i think it would have [TS]

00:33:08   made this episode that much better but [TS]

00:33:10   on balance [TS]

00:33:10   you know the pace the fund those colors [TS]

00:33:13   the teller there so there there's the [TS]

00:33:16   the characters that there was that there [TS]

00:33:18   with on the heist that was all of that [TS]

00:33:20   makes a good i will agree with Jason's [TS]

00:33:23   point i think that the five minutes the [TS]

00:33:24   end that sort of back load everything [TS]

00:33:26   kept us from being say like my favorite [TS]

00:33:28   up so the season but it still gets a [TS]

00:33:29   thumbs up on balance [TS]

00:33:31   yeah yeah enjoyable absolutely let me [TS]

00:33:33   take a break to tell you about one of [TS]

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00:33:57   think Megaman meets temple run so it's [TS]

00:34:00   retro modern it's a pretty cool idea [TS]

00:34:02   they have a kickstarter project and get [TS]

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00:34:19   if you type i'm a geek in the comments [TS]

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00:34:24   will get mommy's CD and the case itself [TS]

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00:34:30   cool-looking if you pledge at least [TS]

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00:34:34   plus the 3d pop out CD that's a half off [TS]

00:34:37   discount without the code in your [TS]

00:34:39   comment [TS]

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00:34:42   you'll get that tears rewards plus the [TS]

00:34:44   3d pop out [TS]

00:34:46   that's a fifty dollar discount if you [TS]

00:34:47   didn't enter i'm a geek as a comment so [TS]

00:34:49   just type i'm a geek in the Kickstarter [TS]

00:34:51   comments after you pledge the project is [TS]

00:34:54   ending November 27 so hurry up or you [TS]

00:34:56   will miss out and remember there's lots [TS]

00:34:59   of other awards you can get for pledging [TS]

00:35:00   these amounts check it out [TS]

00:35:01   touch 10.com / geek [TS]

00:35:13   and thank you so much to touch 10 and [TS]

00:35:15   target acquired for sponsoring the [TS]

00:35:17   uncomfortable the caretaker is next this [TS]

00:35:21   is this is a gareth roberts and Steven [TS]

00:35:24   Moffat joint this is gareth roberts [TS]

00:35:25   retreading some of the territory of the [TS]

00:35:28   larger I think where it say where it's [TS]

00:35:31   the doctor tries to sort of pretend to [TS]

00:35:33   be a regular person in the human world [TS]

00:35:36   and proves that he does a terrible job [TS]

00:35:39   at it we get a lot of Danny and Clara [TS]

00:35:41   and that's why I'm staking a flag and [TS]

00:35:42   saying I really like this fluids because [TS]

00:35:45   it's hilarious [TS]

00:35:47   i'm sorry i really enjoy the fact that [TS]

00:35:49   he was so bad at being a normal person [TS]

00:35:52   and is transparently bag that I just [TS]

00:35:53   found it hilarious from one end to the [TS]

00:35:55   other and he thinks he's so good at it [TS]

00:35:57   yeah it's just like fault i enjoyed a [TS]

00:36:00   lot of people thought he was being [TS]

00:36:01   really mean to Danny I think that kind [TS]

00:36:02   of goes with the same thing with him [TS]

00:36:04   being petty earlier like we're getting a [TS]

00:36:06   doctor who doesn't really is not very [TS]

00:36:09   nice he's not very good at these things [TS]

00:36:10   he's a good person underneath but like [TS]

00:36:12   you know outwardly he's kind of a jerk [TS]

00:36:14   he doesn't care right he's not [TS]

00:36:16   suppressing his jerkiness we used to eat [TS]

00:36:19   cum right i mean he does upstairs in the [TS]

00:36:21   sense that he cares about other people [TS]

00:36:22   he just doesn't care about their [TS]

00:36:23   opinions after this right but the [TS]

00:36:25   landfill the light for I i agree i think [TS]

00:36:28   it got this is one of those ones where [TS]

00:36:30   it but I fell in both sides of it but it [TS]

00:36:32   ended up in the positive column because [TS]

00:36:34   I everything dan said absolutely right [TS]

00:36:36   except i hated the scenes between the [TS]

00:36:38   doctor and Danny it made me so [TS]

00:36:40   uncomfortable the thinking being that [TS]

00:36:41   mean [TS]

00:36:42   and I really didn't like Clara being so [TS]

00:36:44   dishonest and sneaking Danny into the [TS]

00:36:47   TARDIS this is the doctors like inner [TS]

00:36:48   sanctum [TS]

00:36:49   that's so not cool lady i was i was only [TS]

00:36:51   with bad but but everything else was [TS]

00:36:54   just so funny and and the robot the [TS]

00:36:57   skovox blitzer Blitzer was adorable and [TS]

00:36:59   particularly threatening but funny [TS]

00:37:02   yeah and you to see Danny to a flip cute [TS]

00:37:04   it could destroy the entire Earth but [TS]

00:37:05   that's over half well the episode or the [TS]

00:37:07   scene where they have to you know [TS]

00:37:08   they're like thinking on their feet [TS]

00:37:10   trying to explain to Danny who the [TS]

00:37:11   doctor like your dad you know like that [TS]

00:37:14   or it is just like it's hilarious and I [TS]

00:37:18   it's not a super series upset i think [TS]

00:37:20   that's what I like about it the monster [TS]

00:37:21   is there is window dressing and to [TS]

00:37:23   provide some sort of like credible [TS]

00:37:24   threat but that's not really important [TS]

00:37:26   you get Courtney woods being kind of [TS]

00:37:28   like going back and forth the doctor and [TS]

00:37:30   the doctor is basically the equivalent [TS]

00:37:31   of like a thirteen-year-old boy and like [TS]

00:37:34   so they're just sniping at each other [TS]

00:37:35   most of the time but they take some the [TS]

00:37:36   TARDIS the end I don't know it just it [TS]

00:37:38   all kind of falls together kind of [TS]

00:37:40   nicely for me I I think Erica you're a [TS]

00:37:42   lot more protective of dr. i understand [TS]

00:37:44   that i think probably have a lot longer [TS]

00:37:45   history and so I kind of you know feels [TS]

00:37:47   more like oh you know he's just a guy [TS]

00:37:49   and he's always a little bit different [TS]

00:37:51   in every form to sometimes he's bound to [TS]

00:37:53   be kind of kind of a grumpy at some [TS]

00:37:55   point in some ways I think it's better [TS]

00:37:57   as a viewer to have a loser review like [TS]

00:38:00   you do with then i'm i'm i'm a little [TS]

00:38:02   bit set in my ways and crusty and old [TS]

00:38:04   and I try to recognize that but [TS]

00:38:06   sometimes we can't help it I I like this [TS]

00:38:10   one too i like the like tone of it and [TS]

00:38:12   the fact that it you know again you can [TS]

00:38:13   take it a little [TS]

00:38:14   you can take it too seriously it's funny [TS]

00:38:17   it is in the style of the larger which I [TS]

00:38:19   hold it where where the doctors [TS]

00:38:21   convinced that Claire must have a crush [TS]

00:38:23   on the other teacher is axiomatic miss [TS]

00:38:26   yeah that was a beautiful [TS]

00:38:28   yeah i think that did a nice job of [TS]

00:38:30   getting reducing some of the [TS]

00:38:33   uncomfortableness of the mat cameo in [TS]

00:38:35   the end of the episode the first episode [TS]

00:38:37   right I feel like that that's almost a [TS]

00:38:38   better way to handle it is having this [TS]

00:38:40   like we know there's a relationship [TS]

00:38:41   there and that there's something that [TS]

00:38:43   was lost but like dealing with it in [TS]

00:38:45   sort of a comic aside works better when [TS]

00:38:48   dealing with trouble trouble maker [TS]

00:38:50   Kourtney and having him be like Oh [TS]

00:38:52   troublemaker a and I like how he's [TS]

00:38:54   always interviewing other possible [TS]

00:38:56   companions very funny and the fact that [TS]

00:39:00   she's a troublemaker and that doesn't [TS]

00:39:02   disqualify you from the dr liking you [TS]

00:39:04   because he is a troublemaker and I like [TS]

00:39:06   that too but throwing up on the TARDIS [TS]

00:39:08   might yeah that yeah that's right you [TS]

00:39:11   might mind cleaning supplies along in [TS]

00:39:14   which case you have killed the moon [TS]

00:39:16   episode 7 new in which in which a the [TS]

00:39:21   movie moon is killed [TS]

00:39:22   no that doesn't happen this is a [TS]

00:39:25   courtney good comes along with the [TS]

00:39:27   doctor Clara and they go to the moon [TS]

00:39:28   where there's a space shuttle [TS]

00:39:30   I guess and nuclear bombs and spiders [TS]

00:39:34   that aren't spiders but bacteria but [TS]

00:39:37   they still spin webs but they're totally [TS]

00:39:39   not [TS]

00:39:39   spiders and I in the end of the doctor [TS]

00:39:43   runs away leaving Clara and Kourtney and [TS]

00:39:48   the astronaut who is there with the [TS]

00:39:50   nuclear bombs to determine the fate of [TS]

00:39:52   the moon and the earth so what do we [TS]

00:39:54   think of kill the moon the disposable [TS]

00:39:57   astronauts are like I don't quite know [TS]

00:39:58   what I'm doing here i shall wonder of a [TS]

00:40:00   good it was like these poor guys they're [TS]

00:40:02   not really astronauts we brought along [TS]

00:40:04   the best we can do they'll get killed it [TS]

00:40:06   was not know another another [TS]

00:40:07   underutilize great actress in hermione [TS]

00:40:09   Norris who is fantastic in spooks and [TS]

00:40:12   kingdom and a bunch of other stuff and [TS]

00:40:14   it's just has nothing to do here in an [TS]

00:40:17   episode that entirely feel so contrived [TS]

00:40:20   just to bring about the last five [TS]

00:40:21   minutes and the last five minutes in the [TS]

00:40:24   argument that Clara and the doctor have [TS]

00:40:26   is the best part of this episode but it [TS]

00:40:28   feels like they burned off 40 minutes [TS]

00:40:30   just to get to that so that we can have [TS]

00:40:32   this moral argument between the two of [TS]

00:40:34   them and it there did for that removes [TS]

00:40:37   all the stakes for me and everything I [TS]

00:40:39   didn't care what you used to do I didn't [TS]

00:40:41   fit so there's some fantastical elements [TS]

00:40:43   of this writing the moon [TS]

00:40:45   I mean they've right off there like a [TS]

00:40:46   there's gravity on the moon something [TS]

00:40:48   weird is going on because we don't want [TS]

00:40:49   to pay to do special effects where [TS]

00:40:51   gravity is lighter so we're just going [TS]

00:40:52   to say that there's more gravity now and [TS]

00:40:54   they're the spiders and there's the but [TS]

00:40:57   they're only germs and the moon is an [TS]

00:40:58   egg but it's going to I mean right the [TS]

00:41:01   moon is an egg is a great kind of crazy [TS]

00:41:03   statement to make the moon is a negative [TS]

00:41:05   it's about the hatch that is actually [TS]

00:41:06   kind of brilliant but everything around [TS]

00:41:08   is like and then they'll be another [TS]

00:41:09   it'll have another egg and movie night [TS]

00:41:12   moon and it was another English things I [TS]

00:41:14   thought was telegraphed way too early in [TS]

00:41:15   the episode I just I don't know if it [TS]

00:41:17   made sense to me very early on and I [TS]

00:41:19   kept being like guys guys attaching its [TS]

00:41:21   hatching come on catch up [TS]

00:41:23   yeah yeah it's it's I like this is what [TS]

00:41:26   I said before I like the fact that this [TS]

00:41:28   the story is so different and the tone [TS]

00:41:30   is so different it's so strange and that [TS]

00:41:33   the moon is an ache idea is so bizarre [TS]

00:41:35   that said this is funny because this is [TS]

00:41:38   the the one episode of the TV podcast [TS]

00:41:40   this season that I wasn't on because [TS]

00:41:42   they were playing an 18-inning long [TS]

00:41:44   baseball camp and so huh [TS]

00:41:46   so some nice gentleman recorded a [TS]

00:41:47   podcast instead I was right i find that [TS]

00:41:50   fight because the people who listen to [TS]

00:41:51   TV would be like [TS]

00:41:53   so Jason what he likes every episode [TS]

00:41:54   well that's because i wasn't on the [TS]

00:41:56   killing moon episode because i didn't [TS]

00:41:57   like kill the moon i love all of its [TS]

00:41:59   attempts to be different but I thought [TS]

00:42:01   it was terrible i thought the doctor [TS]

00:42:03   later is is inconceivable the doctors i [TS]

00:42:07   won't make any sense I gotta go [TS]

00:42:09   i I don't I don't entirely agree with [TS]

00:42:11   the people criticize this and said that [TS]

00:42:13   it's a pro-life message because this is [TS]

00:42:15   essentially saying you've got a spare [TS]

00:42:17   the spare the baby i i get where they're [TS]

00:42:19   coming from but I don't think that was [TS]

00:42:21   the intent of this episode and I like [TS]

00:42:22   the fact that the doctor is empowering [TS]

00:42:24   women to decide whether the earth lives [TS]

00:42:27   or dies and whether this egg hatches or [TS]

00:42:29   not but the fact that the doctor would [TS]

00:42:31   after 50 years of intervening in order [TS]

00:42:34   to protect humanity decides to run away [TS]

00:42:36   time here either 11 either he's a coward [TS]

00:42:40   or or two he's playing head games with [TS]

00:42:44   Clara in order to have her make a [TS]

00:42:46   decision that he already knows what [TS]

00:42:47   she's gonna make it either way it's not [TS]

00:42:49   good and I don't like it so and plus [TS]

00:42:52   then oh and they laid another egg that [TS]

00:42:54   looks exactly like the moon the end [TS]

00:42:55   right convenient [TS]

00:42:57   yeah this is one where I mean I think [TS]

00:42:59   there are things I liked about it and I [TS]

00:43:00   think if I enjoyed the experience of [TS]

00:43:03   watching it but overall with probably [TS]

00:43:05   not one of my favorites in this series [TS]

00:43:06   because I i liked like you said you know [TS]

00:43:09   the empowering women there are three [TS]

00:43:11   women and all of the men in the episode [TS]

00:43:14   either run away or are bumbling idiots [TS]

00:43:16   and get killed off one by one like it [TS]

00:43:17   it's a pretty it's a pretty [TS]

00:43:18   female-centric episode which we help [TS]

00:43:21   kind of cool [TS]

00:43:22   however I I feel the same way about the [TS]

00:43:24   doctors actions and maybe this comes [TS]

00:43:26   back to me being overprotective of the [TS]

00:43:28   doctor but I i hated watching him act [TS]

00:43:32   that way that did whether it maybe I can [TS]

00:43:35   hand wave it and make it makes sense [TS]

00:43:36   because he's pretty damaged and broken [TS]

00:43:39   in in this incarnation and still trying [TS]

00:43:42   to figure himself out so so maybe it [TS]

00:43:44   kind of does make sense that this is the [TS]

00:43:46   time that he chooses to to stop [TS]

00:43:48   intervening and run away and and let the [TS]

00:43:50   ER thurs make the choice but i hate and [TS]

00:43:53   repeated watching that happen and i [TS]

00:43:55   think also it's not entirely fair [TS]

00:43:57   because Hermione Norris is the only one [TS]

00:43:59   that's actually of that Earth both Clara [TS]

00:44:01   and you know this teenager Courtney who [TS]

00:44:04   readin [TS]

00:44:05   really she hasn't had a whole lot of [TS]

00:44:07   life behind her yet to make these kind [TS]

00:44:08   of big decisions they're from a [TS]

00:44:10   completely different time so it it just [TS]

00:44:13   didn't make sense and i do agree that [TS]

00:44:15   the best scene was at the end with Clark [TS]

00:44:17   just given the doctor both barrels it [TS]

00:44:19   was amazingly acted but it once again [TS]

00:44:23   really uncomfortable to watch and and I [TS]

00:44:25   I like some some emotions in my doctor [TS]

00:44:27   who but this was just like it seemed [TS]

00:44:29   like the whole series kept building and [TS]

00:44:31   the episodes that had the least amount [TS]

00:44:33   of the thanks for the ones that I like [TS]

00:44:36   the best so that's why this one was less [TS]

00:44:38   enjoyable and this is one more i'll [TS]

00:44:40   agree all agree with Erica about the [TS]

00:44:41   doctor and the way that he acts feeling [TS]

00:44:43   cringe-worthy because the other ones [TS]

00:44:45   where he's being kind of petty that's [TS]

00:44:47   one thing but to abdicate responsibility [TS]

00:44:48   as Jason pointed out when he's been [TS]

00:44:51   doing this for so why is this the point [TS]

00:44:53   why is this the one that he has to walk [TS]

00:44:55   away from that doesn't make any sense at [TS]

00:44:57   all like that is not something we've [TS]

00:44:58   ever seen before to me this is the [TS]

00:45:00   inconsistency in the character whereas [TS]

00:45:02   everything else he did even if it's [TS]

00:45:03   unbecoming at least with was consistent [TS]

00:45:05   with the characterization that we've [TS]

00:45:06   been presented of this incarnation of [TS]

00:45:08   the doctor so I just don't get it and it [TS]

00:45:11   feels contrived to make that it like to [TS]

00:45:14   set up that argument yeah and it's just [TS]

00:45:16   catches feels it feels like to me this [TS]

00:45:19   was the worst episode of the season [TS]

00:45:20   hands down for me [TS]

00:45:21   yep i agree with you i think david mr. [TS]

00:45:24   McNulty and I spent an enormous amount [TS]

00:45:26   of time going Y on the via TV [TS]

00:45:30   oh I'm not worried my dear God I didn't [TS]

00:45:33   like the gravity I hate the heat episode [TS]

00:45:35   where there's pseudoscience but they [TS]

00:45:37   don't do the hand wavy thing so it's [TS]

00:45:39   like it's one thing if you invent some [TS]

00:45:41   kind of ridiculous scientific principle [TS]

00:45:42   and then stand by its other like there's [TS]

00:45:44   more gravity is like there is not wear [TS]

00:45:46   the mask come from [TS]

00:45:47   give me the most lame explanation about [TS]

00:45:49   sucking this is really something like [TS]

00:45:51   university their bacteria but they they [TS]

00:45:53   only look like spiders but they said [TS]

00:45:55   well and web mining that's why just just [TS]

00:45:58   just have a parallel universe that it's [TS]

00:45:59   sucking energy out of and I'd be okay [TS]

00:46:01   with it but no rap and parable yeah [TS]

00:46:04   metaphor myth-making okay like I said [TS]

00:46:08   foot lot of credit for it as as [TS]

00:46:11   audacious is this suit is the moon isn't [TS]

00:46:13   egg but execution-wise yeah and and [TS]

00:46:16   undercutting the doctor and and his [TS]

00:46:19   character in order to get his argument [TS]

00:46:20   with Claire at the end which I don't [TS]

00:46:21   agree with Dan totally is why he does [TS]

00:46:23   what he does he does it so that they can [TS]

00:46:25   have an argument at the end not because [TS]

00:46:26   it makes any sense becoming the scripts [TS]

00:46:28   traded right out I mean otherwise you [TS]

00:46:30   can have the doctor caught under [TS]

00:46:31   something heavy and be like is heavy you [TS]

00:46:34   make the decision right that doesn't [TS]

00:46:36   happen he could be trapped watching an [TS]

00:46:38   endless baseball game and she has to [TS]

00:46:39   make the discuss rates the 18th inning I [TS]

00:46:41   have to go [TS]

00:46:42   yeah I enjoyed watching bits and pieces [TS]

00:46:45   of it though because I didn't think that [TS]

00:46:46   there was fun [TS]

00:46:47   there was some tension and get some [TS]

00:46:50   excitement and they really did you know [TS]

00:46:51   Hinchcliffe the bleep out of ya the [TS]

00:46:53   first 15 minutes then and there was some [TS]

00:46:54   mystery and and that you know I didn't [TS]

00:46:57   know what was going on so when you [TS]

00:46:58   ignore some of the reasons that things [TS]

00:47:00   were happening and just just go with the [TS]

00:47:02   flow i enjoyed a lot of that part I like [TS]

00:47:05   the space base [TS]

00:47:06   I like the moon scenes that they were [TS]

00:47:07   like I thought that looked kind of [TS]

00:47:09   cordial for Doctor Who right especially [TS]

00:47:11   it's like wow they're on the moon that's [TS]

00:47:13   nice but but the story [TS]

00:47:15   yeah okay the moon we've killed it [TS]

00:47:18   mommy on the Orient Express is next [TS]

00:47:22   which when I heard this title I thought [TS]

00:47:23   well this is like a holdover from last [TS]

00:47:25   season where they had the wild titles [TS]

00:47:28   and the super broad episodes and like [TS]

00:47:30   like time heist this is a you know this [TS]

00:47:34   is a story of a of a certain type it is [TS]

00:47:36   on a space train and there's a murderous [TS]

00:47:38   mummy and it's as broad ax an idea as as [TS]

00:47:42   as possible i watch this one in a [TS]

00:47:46   different hotel room with dan was i [TS]

00:47:49   there [TS]

00:47:49   Oh No within more and we watch this in [TS]

00:47:51   montreal and then we did a podcast how [TS]

00:47:53   did the two experiences compare i watch [TS]

00:47:56   on a TV yeah we watched on TV in a [TS]

00:47:58   topsia because dan had the right cables [TS]

00:48:01   I i thought this episode was really fun [TS]

00:48:04   right that it was fun and when it had [TS]

00:48:07   great jokes and have a good pace this [TS]

00:48:10   episode felt more like classic Doctor [TS]

00:48:12   Who than anything I have seen in a long [TS]

00:48:14   time you just had the ceiling of the old [TS]

00:48:17   school doctor who episode that wasn't [TS]

00:48:19   taking itself too seriously was just [TS]

00:48:21   sort of having a good time and I enjoyed [TS]

00:48:24   the heck out of [TS]

00:48:25   beginning to end and in contrast to the [TS]

00:48:27   last episode when stuff happens like and [TS]

00:48:30   doesn't make quote-unquote sense like [TS]

00:48:31   the 66 seconds things they come up with [TS]

00:48:34   an explanation and that explanation [TS]

00:48:35   doesn't need to be like perfectly [TS]

00:48:37   sensible but excited x it's an [TS]

00:48:39   explanation of the great that's fine [TS]

00:48:41   that's consistent with the world that [TS]

00:48:42   you've created here [TS]

00:48:43   all we ask is that you wave your hand [TS]

00:48:45   okay just exactly waving is all we need [TS]

00:48:48   and i like that it was a monster that [TS]

00:48:50   was again not really a monster like it [TS]

00:48:54   was a it was not a sentient thinking [TS]

00:48:57   being right it was a had a program to [TS]

00:48:59   run sort of and it wasn't malevolent it [TS]

00:49:02   was just doing what it was supposed to [TS]

00:49:03   do and I kind of dug that [TS]

00:49:04   yeah it's a little bit recycled from the [TS]

00:49:06   empty child or something like that where [TS]

00:49:07   it's this dress so just like in program [TS]

00:49:10   half of mother's story of see I know I I [TS]

00:49:12   wasn't adopted child but yes we could [TS]

00:49:14   list them all but it it serves the [TS]

00:49:17   purpose of being an interesting threat [TS]

00:49:18   and you get the you get the engineer who [TS]

00:49:21   helps the doctor and you get the scene [TS]

00:49:23   at the at the locked door in the train [TS]

00:49:27   that is pretty good and yeah it is your [TS]

00:49:31   right Erica it is a this is a classic [TS]

00:49:33   Doctor Who story if ever there was one [TS]

00:49:35   they they in fact you might be able to [TS]

00:49:36   watch it and point out the various [TS]

00:49:38   cliffhanger breaks in the middle of it [TS]

00:49:41   oh yeah and even down to like the feel [TS]

00:49:42   of the stunt casting they used to do [TS]

00:49:44   that every once in awhile and classic [TS]

00:49:45   who bring in somebody who is really well [TS]

00:49:47   known in this case it's frank skinner [TS]

00:49:48   who is a very noted like huge hardcore [TS]

00:49:51   doctor who fan who apparently was [TS]

00:49:52   watching I think episode 2 of the sensor [TS]

00:49:54   rights when he got the news he was going [TS]

00:49:56   to be on Doctor Who like that's that is [TS]

00:49:58   a hardcore doctor who fan and as soon as [TS]

00:50:01   they knew that he was going to be in an [TS]

00:50:02   apparently Jamie Matheson who also is a [TS]

00:50:04   stand-up comedian like Frank Skinner is [TS]

00:50:06   started like putting in some more lines [TS]

00:50:08   and stuff for him so very much had to [TS]

00:50:10   feel that this is the the throwaway [TS]

00:50:12   character that you're supposed to be [TS]

00:50:13   paying attention to he kind of got the [TS]

00:50:15   spotlight and it felt classic to me [TS]

00:50:17   although I will say my my younger son [TS]

00:50:20   looked up every time the train you know [TS]

00:50:22   you'd see the outside of the train and [TS]

00:50:23   cya on the polar express yeah [TS]

00:50:26   aside from that CGI space i just wonder [TS]

00:50:29   i still wonder if it runs into the [TS]

00:50:30   state's Titanic I like the fact that [TS]

00:50:33   this is actually resolving in the end of [TS]

00:50:36   Matt Smith's first yes [TS]

00:50:38   a phone call about the Orient Express in [TS]

00:50:40   space and in this episode what we're [TS]

00:50:43   told is that this guy whoever has been [TS]

00:50:46   trying to get him to come on this train [TS]

00:50:47   has been trying to do it for a while now [TS]

00:50:49   and he's never managed to make it there [TS]

00:50:51   so we we've read cond that phone call [TS]

00:50:54   back into the whole idea that it's beer [TS]

00:50:55   and expressing space and we and we don't [TS]

00:50:57   solve everything either to know like [TS]

00:50:59   what kind of fun yeah whoohoo said Gus [TS]

00:51:01   the computer on this path then that's [TS]

00:51:03   just kind of was it Missy we never I [TS]

00:51:06   don't know what I mean it doesn't make [TS]

00:51:07   any sense i just it's out there it's [TS]

00:51:09   whatever i don't know that we'll come [TS]

00:51:11   back to it eventually [TS]

00:51:13   and I hope it will be even half as fun [TS]

00:51:14   as this episode because if so I will [TS]

00:51:16   live green thumbs up there [TS]

00:51:18   ok next is flatline I written by the [TS]

00:51:23   same written by the author of money on [TS]

00:51:25   the Orient Express [TS]

00:51:26   although i think maybe in the opposite [TS]

00:51:28   order but I don't ya flatline was first [TS]

00:51:30   and they liked it so much they said here [TS]

00:51:32   do another one so I'm going about [TS]

00:51:34   expresses what he came up with like off [TS]

00:51:36   the top of his head he didn't even have [TS]

00:51:37   like a an idea what I think I think [TS]

00:51:40   Steven Moffat gave him money on the [TS]

00:51:41   Orient Express and said go right that [TS]

00:51:43   whatever just figure it out but flatline [TS]

00:51:46   he came he came within this is this is [TS]

00:51:49   the the target shrinking the doctor is [TS]

00:51:52   trapped inside there are two dimensional [TS]

00:51:54   monsters and the end Clara has to sit on [TS]

00:52:00   a chair to hide from on monsters and [TS]

00:52:04   they get chased into a there's a there's [TS]

00:52:05   an overpass and then there's some like [TS]

00:52:07   the inside of a factory and subway [TS]

00:52:09   tunnels and I you know I I spoiler alert [TS]

00:52:15   i think maybe this is my favorite [TS]

00:52:17   episode of the whole season [TS]

00:52:18   flatline III I loved it I loved the [TS]

00:52:21   monsters i love the jokes i love the [TS]

00:52:23   fact that the doctor is an increasingly [TS]

00:52:25   small box but he doesn't get any smaller [TS]

00:52:27   and so he becomes like cousin it from [TS]

00:52:30   the addams family not the monsters [TS]

00:52:32   although I said the monsters on the TV [TS]

00:52:34   podcast because I don't I can't tell the [TS]

00:52:35   difference between those shows monster [TS]

00:52:37   shows from a million years ago uh I I [TS]

00:52:39   loved I loved so much about this i love [TS]

00:52:41   the Clara becomes the doctor and she's [TS]

00:52:43   got her own companion who was rigsy and [TS]

00:52:45   there and they investigate all this and [TS]

00:52:47   there's the giant hand comes up grabs [TS]

00:52:49   people which like such a great shock I [TS]

00:52:51   loved flatline I everything about yeah [TS]

00:52:53   this was probably my absolute favorite [TS]

00:52:55   of the season because it was it was [TS]

00:52:57   different it was knew it was you know it [TS]

00:53:01   had all the things that a good doctor [TS]

00:53:02   who has but it did kept you guessing it [TS]

00:53:05   kept you on the interview see I know the [TS]

00:53:07   two-dimensional monsters are are [TS]

00:53:08   effectively creepy especially because [TS]

00:53:10   you don't understand their motivations [TS]

00:53:11   even by the end of it like maybe they're [TS]

00:53:14   just trying to figure stuff out [TS]

00:53:16   I don't know but they was going to say [TS]

00:53:17   hello yeah but it was creepy especially [TS]

00:53:19   the one with all the like the the [TS]

00:53:21   graffiti of all the people in the subway [TS]

00:53:23   underpass in the subway tunnel [TS]

00:53:25   yeah like that was it was pretty cool i [TS]

00:53:27   liked it this was the one that freaked [TS]

00:53:29   out the kids [TS]

00:53:29   well like the reveal that we weren't [TS]

00:53:31   sure who this could be okay they're in [TS]

00:53:33   trouble communicating remind me of the [TS]

00:53:35   star trek episode in which the you know [TS]

00:53:37   the sub was a subspace creatures with [TS]

00:53:40   the strange items that schism yeah [TS]

00:53:42   that's a creepy episode that's a craving [TS]

00:53:45   that never comes back later but it's [TS]

00:53:46   remind you that it's like well maybe [TS]

00:53:48   they're trying to communicate maybe they [TS]

00:53:49   don't know what they're doing [TS]

00:53:50   oh no I love it was always like to give [TS]

00:53:53   him the benefit of the doubt [TS]

00:53:54   oh you think they're really good no i [TS]

00:53:55   don't but we gotta give him the benefit [TS]

00:53:57   of the advantages and see that is very [TS]

00:53:59   dr. Wright said that is that is him to a [TS]

00:54:03   tee which is I want to listen to them [TS]

00:54:05   but I don't they're gonna kill us you [TS]

00:54:07   know if that I'm heist had been a [TS]

00:54:09   pastiche of any genre other than heists [TS]

00:54:11   this would be my friend and favorite of [TS]

00:54:14   the series by just my my high school of [TS]

00:54:16   overrides it [TS]

00:54:18   yeah just a little bit not buy a whole [TS]

00:54:19   lot though because I completely agree [TS]

00:54:21   this was this is fantastic it was just [TS]

00:54:23   it was so exciting and so different and [TS]

00:54:26   I adored the interaction between Clara [TS]

00:54:30   on the outside of the doctor on the [TS]

00:54:31   inside especially knowing that they shot [TS]

00:54:33   it completely separately because these [TS]

00:54:35   were double-booked double Bank episodes [TS]

00:54:37   which is why they're not the same seems [TS]

00:54:39   very often and Clara being the doctor [TS]

00:54:41   and the doctor being like don't you dare [TS]

00:54:43   and she just [TS]

00:54:44   oh she's an excellent doctor she's [TS]

00:54:47   really really good [TS]

00:54:48   this might be the only episode as much [TS]

00:54:50   as I love the whole series with mild [TS]

00:54:53   exceptions [TS]

00:54:54   you know I've said this is the best [TS]

00:54:56   sustained stretch of episodes i think in [TS]

00:55:00   the new series for me but this was the [TS]

00:55:02   only one where there wasn't anything [TS]

00:55:04   that made me stop and go what what that [TS]

00:55:07   didn't quite connect I mean this was [TS]

00:55:08   just flat out flat out beautiful yes [TS]

00:55:12   flat-out beautiful from being actually i [TS]

00:55:16   have i have one one problem with this [TS]

00:55:18   episode and that is I think the boneless [TS]

00:55:21   is a stupid name [TS]

00:55:22   yeah and I take issue with it i call [TS]

00:55:24   them flatliners I i also might my [TS]

00:55:27   complaint about this episode is that uh [TS]

00:55:29   Clara receives a phone call from Danny [TS]

00:55:32   while almost dying and one decides to [TS]

00:55:35   answer it and to decides to lie and say [TS]

00:55:37   no I'm fine there's nothing going on why [TS]

00:55:40   would why why because my wish maybe she [TS]

00:55:42   thought that would be her last chance to [TS]

00:55:44   hear his voice yes maybe I don't know [TS]

00:55:47   I'm just grasping at straws here they [TS]

00:55:49   have a lot of awkward phone [TS]

00:55:50   conversations this season I'm saying is [TS]

00:55:52   one of two dimensional creature is [TS]

00:55:53   trying to kill you [TS]

00:55:54   donates the phone just now speaking from [TS]

00:55:57   experience [TS]

00:55:58   yeah just I think that happens that's a [TS]

00:56:01   good 1i like that in fact Jamie Matheson [TS]

00:56:04   the guy who wrote this and let me orient [TS]

00:56:07   express i start to put him in line of [TS]

00:56:09   like hey if you need if you need to [TS]

00:56:11   bring writers back and if you need to [TS]

00:56:13   think about future people who might be [TS]

00:56:15   able to run the show say this name away [TS]

00:56:18   because I don't know about showrunners [TS]

00:56:20   showrunning is a very different skill [TS]

00:56:22   set from writing good script so what I [TS]

00:56:23   would do is say you highland you hire [TS]

00:56:26   Neil cross of Luther fame to run the [TS]

00:56:29   show and he brings on Jim Matheson says [TS]

00:56:31   write me some episodes too and then I [TS]

00:56:33   would those because those are the two [TS]

00:56:34   fines for me of the last two years or [TS]

00:56:36   meal cross and doing math and reading [TS]

00:56:38   doctor who both bang-up jobs so you know [TS]

00:56:42   yay [TS]

00:56:43   time for a little break to talk about [TS]

00:56:44   one of our sponsors it's Harry's you may [TS]

00:56:47   know Harry's I've talked about in the [TS]

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00:56:58   did you know the month of movember is [TS]

00:57:01   upon us this is a very clever concept [TS]

00:57:03   involving people growing out mustaches [TS]

00:57:07   for charity mustache which in America is [TS]

00:57:11   spelled with you and yet we call it [TS]

00:57:12   movember I don't really understand it [TS]

00:57:14   doesn't matter national novel writing [TS]

00:57:15   month isn't national either it [TS]

00:57:18   November's a big month and it's a big [TS]

00:57:20   month for Harry's and Harry's dot-com is [TS]

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00:57:43   shaving experience for all men they [TS]

00:57:46   bought a blade factory in Germany they [TS]

00:57:48   liked it so much they bought the factory [TS]

00:57:50   the blades are great i shave with [TS]

00:57:52   Harry's blade every now every day now it [TS]

00:57:55   is fantastic [TS]

00:57:56   they have this amazing shaving lotion [TS]

00:57:59   with light mint smell on it that i have [TS]

00:58:01   come to love that is my go-to shaving [TS]

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00:58:20   just fifteen dollars that's a razor [TS]

00:58:21   three blades and your choice of that [TS]

00:58:24   shave cream home or the foaming shave [TS]

00:58:27   gel i love that shave cream [TS]

00:58:29   I love that little minty smell it's so [TS]

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00:58:34   to do that thing where you like oh [TS]

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00:58:36   go to your check out your shopping cart [TS]

00:58:38   and find that there's like ten dollars [TS]

00:58:40   edit on shipping is free when you go to [TS]

00:58:42   Harry's so go to Harry's dot-com now eh [TS]

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00:59:03   I did oh thank you Harry's for [TS]

00:59:05   sponsoring comfortable and giving me a [TS]

00:59:07   good shave so next up is in the forests [TS]

00:59:09   of the night by frank cottrell boyce [TS]

00:59:11   noted children's author and the guy who [TS]

00:59:14   did the london 2012 Summer Olympic [TS]

00:59:17   program thing and this is the one where [TS]

00:59:20   the there's a forest that appears [TS]

00:59:22   overnight in London and Claire and Danny [TS]

00:59:25   have a group of kids that they are [TS]

00:59:27   the museum and they need to get them [TS]

00:59:28   home and a little girl made comes and [TS]

00:59:31   finds the doctor and artisans Clara sent [TS]

00:59:33   me to to get you and what did everybody [TS]

00:59:37   think of this this is another one of [TS]

00:59:38   those fable kind of episodes great [TS]

00:59:41   premise terrible execution [TS]

00:59:43   I didn't know that frank cottrell boyce [TS]

00:59:45   was a children's author before I saw it [TS]

00:59:48   but I absolutely would have guessed [TS]

00:59:50   after seeing it because it did have that [TS]

00:59:52   kind of kids book sort of feeling which [TS]

00:59:54   maybe could have been done well but it [TS]

00:59:56   don't know I it was ok but I didn't like [TS]

00:59:59   four [TS]

00:59:59   four [TS]

01:00:00   well I don't like kids in Doctor Who yes [TS]

01:00:01   i know it's a kids show but mostly [TS]

01:00:03   temple father's no I but I thought made [TS]

01:00:06   was actually quite good like that LOL [TS]

01:00:08   accuracy yeah she was excellent so I had [TS]

01:00:10   no problem with her but then you have [TS]

01:00:12   Danny and Clara being the worst teachers [TS]

01:00:15   in the world are walking in front of all [TS]

01:00:17   the kids and you're letting them wander [TS]

01:00:18   behind them [TS]

01:00:19   well it's not like they're in a forest [TS]

01:00:21   she's just there was there was enough [TS]

01:00:24   little stuff like that happening and [TS]

01:00:26   then you have the the creatures the here [TS]

01:00:29   which is apparently what they're called [TS]

01:00:30   I didn't get that one ever showed its I [TS]

01:00:34   was fine with they don't photosynthesize [TS]

01:00:36   I i wouldn't say dislike this one but I [TS]

01:00:39   think the fact that it was so pretty [TS]

01:00:41   saved saved a lot for me because it was [TS]

01:00:43   gorgeously set design cycle pick what [TS]

01:00:46   did an amazing job and I think she [TS]

01:00:47   focused direction was excellent too but [TS]

01:00:50   the story itself was like not a lot [TS]

01:00:52   happened and the dog didn't do anything [TS]

01:00:54   the doctor hasn't done anything all [TS]

01:00:55   season to be fair but but this this time [TS]

01:00:59   he really doesn't do anything he just [TS]

01:01:00   stands around [TS]

01:01:01   yeah and it's doesn't really make it [TS]

01:01:03   it's a plot with no sense so the trees [TS]

01:01:05   have grown up to prevent protectors for [TS]

01:01:07   a solar flare overnight because that [TS]

01:01:09   happens and well I that more than their [TS]

01:01:12   disappearance but but the the you know [TS]

01:01:16   that that's the when you look at the [TS]

01:01:17   hindsight of this episode right it's [TS]

01:01:19   like oh no the trees we must get to the [TS]

01:01:21   bottom of this [TS]

01:01:22   oh they're fine they're just here to [TS]

01:01:23   protect us all right and then when [TS]

01:01:25   they're done they will vanish [TS]

01:01:26   ok yes so that's that's the thing is [TS]

01:01:29   like again a magical forest that grows [TS]

01:01:32   overnight is a again i think if a [TS]

01:01:34   fascinating beautiful idea in the realms [TS]

01:01:37   of fantasy but the problem is it's [TS]

01:01:39   Doctor Who so you have to try and [TS]

01:01:41   explain they do try and explain in here [TS]

01:01:42   and that goes horribly awry i feel like [TS]

01:01:45   because it just doesn't it's too far out [TS]

01:01:48   of the realm of this of the show in some [TS]

01:01:51   ways the consequences of all of that [TS]

01:01:54   like I mean buildings would be falling [TS]

01:01:56   down left and right because of the root [TS]

01:01:57   structures and like this my brain just [TS]

01:01:59   went on a tangent about like thinking [TS]

01:02:01   this would ruin everything these are [TS]

01:02:02   magic trees tho much better [TS]

01:02:03   implementation of same idea is in the [TS]

01:02:06   the show legend of korra in which spirit [TS]

01:02:08   plants start growing throughout a major [TS]

01:02:10   city and it totally disrupt everything [TS]

01:02:12   going on there [TS]

01:02:13   I ask my kids what they thought of this [TS]

01:02:15   season and they singled out this as the [TS]

01:02:19   episode they liked the most [TS]

01:02:22   as a witch i think maybe fits into what [TS]

01:02:25   we said about the that it's frank [TS]

01:02:27   cottrell boyce and he he is written [TS]

01:02:29   he's written children's books and films [TS]

01:02:32   about children and this and my kids [TS]

01:02:35   liked it they like that the kids were in [TS]

01:02:37   it they liked that there wasn't a big [TS]

01:02:39   monster actually my son said I like that [TS]

01:02:41   turns out the trees are friendly and so [TS]

01:02:44   so I think that's interesting that this [TS]

01:02:46   is this is maybe we always have this [TS]

01:02:48   argument about like his doctor for kids [TS]

01:02:50   is for adults and that the answer that's [TS]

01:02:51   very American our argument I think [TS]

01:02:53   because that the answer is this is a [TS]

01:02:54   family show it's made for families it's [TS]

01:02:56   made for all age ranges that it's not [TS]

01:02:58   like most Americans shows that are made [TS]

01:03:00   for kids or they're made for adults it's [TS]

01:03:02   made for families [TS]

01:03:03   this is maybe the most kids show you [TS]

01:03:10   like kids concept episode i've seen in [TS]

01:03:12   the series since it came back where I [TS]

01:03:14   feel like this is a story for children [TS]

01:03:15   and as a story for children i actually [TS]

01:03:18   think it really works up until the last [TS]

01:03:22   15 minutes when Danny and Clara decide [TS]

01:03:25   that kids the kids would be sad if they [TS]

01:03:28   escaped the dying planet and their [TS]

01:03:30   parents died so we'll just stay here and [TS]

01:03:33   all die because that is the most [TS]

01:03:35   ridiculous way to take care of children [TS]

01:03:37   ever now we're all just gonna stay here [TS]

01:03:39   and die i know we could be saved but [TS]

01:03:42   we'd be it will be a real bummer if the [TS]

01:03:43   kids parents died and they didn't so [TS]

01:03:45   we're all gonna die instead and that's [TS]

01:03:47   when I got really angry and said what [TS]

01:03:48   are you doing well you gotta I mean that [TS]

01:03:50   they don't actually have kids themselves [TS]

01:03:52   and that's the kind of decision I could [TS]

01:03:53   see myself making being like you to do I [TS]

01:03:55   want to have a one class full of of [TS]

01:03:58   little kids to take care of we're going [TS]

01:04:00   to grow up to be the last human beings [TS]

01:04:01   in the universe that sounds like a [TS]

01:04:03   horrible existence i think i'd rather [TS]

01:04:04   stay on the planet with kids [TS]

01:04:06   okay Jason and David the plan we had to [TS]

01:04:08   send all of our kids to Canada for [TS]

01:04:10   cancer huh [TS]

01:04:12   I would take goodness mission [TS]

01:04:14   accomplished Claire doesn't want to take [TS]

01:04:15   care of the kids that's fine but to say [TS]

01:04:17   that because the kids will be sad that [TS]

01:04:19   their parents are dead i'm just going to [TS]

01:04:21   stay here and let them die is a poor bit [TS]

01:04:24   of care for the channels good point when [TS]

01:04:27   when both of mine went what is the what [TS]

01:04:30   is wrong with these people and put them [TS]

01:04:32   on that get the target machine and it's [TS]

01:04:35   like well how would you feel if you know [TS]

01:04:37   like hell yeah I want to live in outer [TS]

01:04:39   space go away [TS]

01:04:40   ok I can handle yeah i think i think [TS]

01:04:44   yeah repopulating the the species and [TS]

01:04:48   being the last humans alive maybe beats [TS]

01:04:51   being dead in the burned-up planet but [TS]

01:04:53   of course it's obvious because there's [TS]

01:04:55   that scene where the guys are setting [TS]

01:04:56   fire to the trees ago nothing happens [TS]

01:04:59   that is my other that was my other [TS]

01:05:01   problem as soon as that happened I [TS]

01:05:02   realized all the trees are the good guys [TS]

01:05:03   here and I don't like being smarter than [TS]

01:05:05   the doctor the doctor didn't figure that [TS]

01:05:07   out [TS]

01:05:08   no and I agree that it's a fun scene [TS]

01:05:10   when he says I'm an idiot but it's like [TS]

01:05:11   you know dude I I figured this out 20 [TS]

01:05:14   minutes ago i'm ok with him learning it [TS]

01:05:17   you know ten minutes after i do or five [TS]

01:05:19   minutes after i do but literally half [TS]

01:05:20   the episode goes by they say goodbye [TS]

01:05:23   he goes oh well I guess it's over I'm [TS]

01:05:24   gonna go watch the earth burn and then [TS]

01:05:26   he goes oh fireproof trees like haha [TS]

01:05:29   yeah but again my kids didn't have the [TS]

01:05:31   problem with it which is why I think [TS]

01:05:32   maybe this is an episode that works [TS]

01:05:34   better if you're 10 or 12 then sand if [TS]

01:05:38   you're 40 [TS]

01:05:39   I i thought like i like i said i I'm [TS]

01:05:41   torn on this I think the first 25 or 30 [TS]

01:05:44   minutes it's kind of beautiful in its [TS]

01:05:46   weird fantasy fable kind of way and then [TS]

01:05:49   I feel like it falls apart so i'll say [TS]

01:05:51   not as bad as killing mood but no mean [TS]

01:05:53   it may be my second least favorite not [TS]

01:05:56   that there were things I didn't like but [TS]

01:05:57   it might be my second least favorite [TS]

01:05:58   overall so in the original released [TS]

01:06:01   version of this episode i forgot to take [TS]

01:06:04   out a big blank space and people who got [TS]

01:06:07   that episode got to be alone with their [TS]

01:06:10   feelings [TS]

01:06:11   perhaps yell back the podcast [TS]

01:06:14   or ponder the meaning of life you [TS]

01:06:16   however get to hear me say that if you [TS]

01:06:17   hear this before [TS]

01:06:19   roughly early December second 2014 you [TS]

01:06:22   should go to the incomparable calm / [TS]

01:06:24   shirt and find a link to our awesome [TS]

01:06:27   random Trek t-shirts which are for sale [TS]

01:06:30   for a limited time now back to the show [TS]

01:06:33   ok we have come to the finale the [TS]

01:06:34   two-part finale dark water and death in [TS]

01:06:36   heaven wherein we we we meet Missy [TS]

01:06:38   finally after her various appearances [TS]

01:06:41   advertising her future appearance that's [TS]

01:06:43   in other episodes it's it's not a story [TS]

01:06:46   arc if all they're doing is reminding [TS]

01:06:47   you that there's going to be a finale [TS]

01:06:48   it's just an ad for the finale dark [TS]

01:06:51   water and it doesn't happen we meet [TS]

01:06:53   Missy we think that she's an android it [TS]

01:06:55   turns out that she's just playing around [TS]

01:06:56   with the doctor and that she's actually [TS]

01:06:58   the master regenerated and because she's [TS]

01:07:01   a proper time lady type she's now the [TS]

01:07:03   mistress and there are cyber men there [TS]

01:07:06   is some water that its purpose seems to [TS]

01:07:09   be to hide that there are cyber men [TS]

01:07:11   until it's cool to reveal that they are [TS]

01:07:13   Cybermen which is cool [TS]

01:07:16   there's no doubt about it and and i [TS]

01:07:17   laughed at it because it's like I don't [TS]

01:07:19   know why dark water exists but it's [TS]

01:07:20   awfully cool when they drain the dark [TS]

01:07:22   water and their cyber men in little pods [TS]

01:07:25   like this again talking about Moffat [TS]

01:07:27   retreading things too like the silence [TS]

01:07:28   when they're in their little water pods [TS]

01:07:30   like what's cool is there's monsters in [TS]

01:07:32   water the genius of this is that [TS]

01:07:34   eventually we find out that this is a [TS]

01:07:36   plan of the master and that basically it [TS]

01:07:38   gives you carte blanche to do whatever [TS]

01:07:40   kind of crazy [TS]

01:07:41   yatrik old dramatic thing you want [TS]

01:07:43   because that's totally the way the [TS]

01:07:45   master does well the master is the [TS]

01:07:47   Masters the Joker right like is that [TS]

01:07:49   he/she is a roving agent of chaos just [TS]

01:07:53   there to be like crap [TS]

01:07:54   whatever and that that is a kind of [TS]

01:07:56   liberating thing to be able to do for a [TS]

01:07:58   villain [TS]

01:07:58   it's a very Joker moment in death in [TS]

01:08:00   heaven when when she kills uh yeah one [TS]

01:08:03   whose name I could never imagine as good [TS]

01:08:05   as Windows bird does corp that she says [TS]

01:08:10   I should probably keep you alive but [TS]

01:08:12   that bananas and kills her [TS]

01:08:14   it's like that was a very Joker kind of [TS]

01:08:15   thing right yeah yeah I i liked the [TS]

01:08:18   thing I liked about dark water is that I [TS]

01:08:21   felt like this was actually as asinine [TS]

01:08:22   master plots go this was actually pretty [TS]

01:08:24   good [TS]

01:08:25   this is like I know Cyberman are clever [TS]

01:08:27   i can use the Cyberman and I can use [TS]

01:08:29   like the part of the matrix and I can [TS]

01:08:31   like make Cyberman and take you and take [TS]

01:08:33   over the one that's like you know that's [TS]

01:08:35   ridiculous master plot scope that's not [TS]

01:08:37   bad and it also makes the decipherment [TS]

01:08:38   slightly more interesting because I'm [TS]

01:08:40   something interesting about them is [TS]

01:08:42   using all the dead people is chris klem [TS]

01:08:44   sleepy i think and I so I got some of [TS]

01:08:47   this well for me and that they they were [TS]

01:08:49   posting like press images and I did see [TS]

01:08:51   the Cyberman before sure I figured it [TS]

01:08:53   out but i did not figure out who Missy [TS]

01:08:56   was until the end in that I you that [TS]

01:08:58   struck me as a really good reveal even I [TS]

01:09:00   i know a lot of people didn't like her [TS]

01:09:02   as a character but I thought she gets [TS]

01:09:03   much better here once once her [TS]

01:09:05   motivations are revealed [TS]

01:09:07   I also kind of dug that you know as sad [TS]

01:09:11   as Danny's demise is I kind of liked [TS]

01:09:14   that it was it was totally mundane like [TS]

01:09:18   that you know he gets hit by a car like [TS]

01:09:21   that it's really sad and but it's not [TS]

01:09:24   the result of a monster it's not [TS]

01:09:25   anything else and I thought Clara's sort [TS]

01:09:27   of you know response to that and feeling [TS]

01:09:30   like the the doctor kind of owed her to [TS]

01:09:32   try and help fix this i thought was was [TS]

01:09:34   pretty solid i like i love the moment [TS]

01:09:36   where the cyber men the heat the [TS]

01:09:41   artistic designs of the industrial [TS]

01:09:45   building in which the Cybermen are held [TS]

01:09:49   are the eyes the windows of the doors [TS]

01:09:52   with the eyes of the Cybermen and opens [TS]

01:09:54   the doors closed [TS]

01:09:55   yeah that the Cyberman theme Murray gold [TS]

01:09:59   Cyberman theme plays that made me laugh [TS]

01:10:01   and laugh and laugh and Lauren didn't [TS]

01:10:04   know the Cybermen were in this episode [TS]

01:10:05   and when she got to that point she was [TS]

01:10:07   like oh it was beautiful it was like [TS]

01:10:10   yeah there I knew they were coming but [TS]

01:10:12   and I i noticed the windows and photo [TS]

01:10:14   that's pretty thankful one more coming [TS]

01:10:16   but i but I had forgotten all about it [TS]

01:10:18   so when that that moment had the perfect [TS]

01:10:19   effect on me was they did exactly what [TS]

01:10:21   it was supposed to do it was aight i [TS]

01:10:23   have this problem that I think you guys [TS]

01:10:25   talk about the last one was a was that [TS]

01:10:27   they have this time with technology [TS]

01:10:28   apparently can capture potentially if [TS]

01:10:31   she's gonna be going across time [TS]

01:10:33   everybody who's ever everybody who's [TS]

01:10:35   ever die the clearances this is saved [TS]

01:10:38   at the moment of death by them by the [TS]

01:10:40   matrix it seems problematic that it's [TS]

01:10:42   kind of like well that time that time [TS]

01:10:43   where technology has it looks like a [TS]

01:10:45   Dyson Sphere by the way on the inside [TS]

01:10:46   its bigger that's time is a Dyson Sphere [TS]

01:10:48   on the inside I it that they have all [TS]

01:10:50   this and there's always people living [TS]

01:10:52   there apparently and their traumatising [TS]

01:10:54   them to make the race their emotions [TS]

01:10:55   maybe and then it's like they're all [TS]

01:10:56   gone for an all the Scout all the bodies [TS]

01:10:59   and Earth are gone forever [TS]

01:11:00   like what we I don't know all the dead [TS]

01:11:02   bodies and the the that was mine that [TS]

01:11:05   was my feeling was the UU recorded the [TS]

01:11:07   consciousness of all these people who [TS]

01:11:09   died in Earth's history you know various [TS]

01:11:12   points in history like what happens to [TS]

01:11:14   them are they all they all just turned [TS]

01:11:16   into Cybermen and blew up that's really [TS]

01:11:17   sad that's when except for except dark [TS]

01:11:20   for the Brigadier who is now a Cyberman [TS]

01:11:23   and presumably some others that if are [TS]

01:11:26   going to form the cybersquad and protect [TS]

01:11:28   the Earth now as the the the great cyber [TS]

01:11:31   cyber protectors who are good at so much [TS]

01:11:33   about the after language there's every [TS]

01:11:35   soul that's ever lived that it was very [TS]

01:11:37   interesting and not well developed [TS]

01:11:38   because it was sort of a side plot y [TS]

01:11:40   need to upload people and editor [TS]

01:11:41   emotions visions copy the conscious the [TS]

01:11:44   1i don't understand sigh then what's the [TS]

01:11:46   matter can't you just reanimate them [TS]

01:11:48   without a consciousness that would make [TS]

01:11:50   things so much easier [TS]

01:11:52   like what's the program like Cybermen [TS]

01:11:53   why do you need them to be intelligent [TS]

01:11:55   if you can tell them everything to do [TS]

01:11:56   buy a bracelet i also understand what's [TS]

01:11:59   the cyber manifesto right like what is [TS]

01:12:01   the employees are like central [TS]

01:12:03   programming i don't really get them like [TS]

01:12:05   what is this thing the Daleks I get that [TS]

01:12:08   will get the Cybermen they've they've [TS]

01:12:09   evolved I think what evolved is maybe [TS]

01:12:12   the right word more than an underrated [TS]

01:12:14   Erica upgraded thank you thank you get [TS]

01:12:17   home so so I think that their [TS]

01:12:19   motivations kind of do change throughout [TS]

01:12:21   the entirety of the series whereas with [TS]

01:12:23   the Daleks it's very easy it's just kill [TS]

01:12:24   everything that is not a Dalek whereas [TS]

01:12:26   the Cybermen started out as just they [TS]

01:12:28   were just regular people who didn't want [TS]

01:12:31   to have to die early and then eventually [TS]

01:12:33   realized we could get rid of these and [TS]

01:12:35   pesky emotions too and it just sort of [TS]

01:12:37   snowballed from there i think in this [TS]

01:12:39   the answer most of the questions you [TS]

01:12:41   guys just asked is it's the master [TS]

01:12:44   because yeah it's ridiculous to to grab [TS]

01:12:48   all of these you know these mines and [TS]

01:12:49   stuff maybe maybe we could just [TS]

01:12:51   how animate the Cybermen of course they [TS]

01:12:53   wouldn't really be Cybermen they would [TS]

01:12:54   just be weird robots it's not actually a [TS]

01:12:57   Cyberman unless it has a dead person [TS]

01:12:59   inside of it I think it's kind of right [TS]

01:13:00   how it works out but but if you don't do [TS]

01:13:03   that you don't get the doctor's [TS]

01:13:04   attention if you aren't capturing every [TS]

01:13:07   single person on earth if it's just a [TS]

01:13:09   bunch of Cybermen that's that's not [TS]

01:13:11   going to really grab him you know [TS]

01:13:13   talking by the quadruple heartstrings [TS]

01:13:15   you know but I will say this was the I [TS]

01:13:17   mean I did like the idea that it was [TS]

01:13:18   like okay I've crazy this enormous army [TS]

01:13:21   that could actually take do anything in [TS]

01:13:22   the universe including for good and it [TS]

01:13:24   did remind me very nicely of last of the [TS]

01:13:25   Time Lords where the Masters like I've [TS]

01:13:28   had them build bombs and they're going [TS]

01:13:29   to go to every planet through you know [TS]

01:13:31   what wormholes and we're gonna blow up [TS]

01:13:33   the entire universe I was like that is a [TS]

01:13:35   pretty ambitious thing and it seems like [TS]

01:13:37   you've actually accomplished young thing [TS]

01:13:40   in your hand with a button and you could [TS]

01:13:41   actually do it and you know usually [TS]

01:13:43   doesn't get that far so this was kind of [TS]

01:13:45   clever where it's like okay I have the [TS]

01:13:48   best army in the universe all ready to [TS]

01:13:50   go and here you go [TS]

01:13:51   it's your stuff I giving it to the [TS]

01:13:52   doctor i think is is the thing that [TS]

01:13:54   makes this so just it's so it gets so [TS]

01:13:56   much more interesting than if the [TS]

01:13:57   Masters like yeah i was gonna I'm gonna [TS]

01:13:59   kill everything now it's like now I'm [TS]

01:14:00   I've less interested in the entire [TS]

01:14:02   universe than i am and just screwing [TS]

01:14:05   with you like that is kind of all I want [TS]

01:14:07   to do that's pretty much classic the [TS]

01:14:09   master and if its greatest kids grew [TS]

01:14:11   history people so much so often he shows [TS]

01:14:13   up and he doesn't really like his plans [TS]

01:14:15   don't really make sense except to screw [TS]

01:14:17   the doctors favorite planet like yeah [TS]

01:14:19   you're gonna get rid of magna carta y [TS]

01:14:21   like what does that get you [TS]

01:14:23   well it's in English common law back [TS]

01:14:26   hundreds of years to do that at the time [TS]

01:14:28   work why do you care [TS]

01:14:29   I was bugged by the way Danny goes out [TS]

01:14:32   in the sense that i get the artfulness [TS]

01:14:36   and also that it's a family show of not [TS]

01:14:38   showing him getting like hit by a car or [TS]

01:14:40   anything like that but it seems his [TS]

01:14:42   death seems so mundane and boring we'll [TS]

01:14:47   see i love that well yeah I'm saying I [TS]

01:14:50   saying before I think I enjoyed that it [TS]

01:14:52   was not a monster or something else that [TS]

01:14:54   killed him because guess what it happens [TS]

01:14:56   people get hit by cars and that's like [TS]

01:14:58   it was really sad i think in that way [TS]

01:15:00   because it feels me like unpreventable [TS]

01:15:03   and kind of [TS]

01:15:05   didn't quote meaningless and that to me [TS]

01:15:07   is much sadder in some ways than like a [TS]

01:15:09   heroic death for example or you know [TS]

01:15:11   even getting killed by a monster and it [TS]

01:15:13   was balanced by when he does finally go [TS]

01:15:16   out he goes out with a tremendous speech [TS]

01:15:19   in a graveyard and saving the saving the [TS]

01:15:21   world when Amanda's with a bang and a [TS]

01:15:24   great speech that that's very resonant [TS]

01:15:26   with remembrance day which is right [TS]

01:15:28   about when the episode fell right um [TS]

01:15:30   which is a lovely touch [TS]

01:15:33   I hated that speech i did i'm not saying [TS]

01:15:36   the speech was great but it resonated [TS]

01:15:38   well there but they filled out that Ark [TS]

01:15:39   of the the doctor as the the person who [TS]

01:15:42   manipulates other people into you know [TS]

01:15:44   killing themselves are becoming weapons [TS]

01:15:46   and in Danny makes a differentiation [TS]

01:15:47   he's an officer I'm a soldier and they [TS]

01:15:49   do it it does set up a nice scene at the [TS]

01:15:51   end where ya are on the doctor lying to [TS]

01:15:53   each other about how happy they are and [TS]

01:15:55   how good everything but this is this is [TS]

01:15:57   I feel like a representative of the [TS]

01:15:59   series as a whole this whole this whole [TS]

01:16:01   season where there is a really strong [TS]

01:16:04   theme the character connections are [TS]

01:16:06   really strong we see the doctors [TS]

01:16:08   feelings about soldiers and what you [TS]

01:16:10   know what his role is and is he a good [TS]

01:16:12   man is he a bad man or you know what [TS]

01:16:14   kind of man is he [TS]

01:16:15   his relationship with Clara all of this [TS]

01:16:17   comes to that that scene at the end [TS]

01:16:20   where they are they're hugging and hugs [TS]

01:16:23   alive because you can see the other [TS]

01:16:25   person's face and they're both lying to [TS]

01:16:26   each other and all of that all of that [TS]

01:16:29   emotionally and character wise i feel [TS]

01:16:31   like and theme wise for the whole season [TS]

01:16:32   totally worked [TS]

01:16:34   my problem with Devin heaven is that is [TS]

01:16:36   that as we've mentioned for some other [TS]

01:16:37   episodes I feel like lots of bizarre [TS]

01:16:39   things are done to create those good [TS]

01:16:44   character moments like to show your [TS]

01:16:46   women are not showing your work in [TS]

01:16:48   retrospect the thing that bugs me about [TS]

01:16:50   the season and and it's and it is the [TS]

01:16:54   thematic thing and I guess it kind of [TS]

01:16:56   bugs me a little bit throughout but the [TS]

01:16:58   whole thing you do we keep saying am ia [TS]

01:17:00   good man my good man [TS]

01:17:01   well we know he's going to find out that [TS]

01:17:04   he's a good man because they're not [TS]

01:17:05   suddenly going to make him not a good [TS]

01:17:07   man but the question should have been [TS]

01:17:10   why do you think I'm a good man and if [TS]

01:17:13   he's asking that to the different people [TS]

01:17:15   then that's something that he actually [TS]

01:17:16   needs to find out that's something that [TS]

01:17:18   we [TS]

01:17:18   actually don't know why do you think [TS]

01:17:20   he's a good man but to just have been [TS]

01:17:22   saying why my good man or my good man [TS]

01:17:25   that was like it but the resolution I [TS]

01:17:28   feel like wasn't--oh yeah I am a good [TS]

01:17:30   man the resolution was I am neither the [TS]

01:17:33   good dollar course a bad Dalek Miami [TS]

01:17:36   just somebody who meanders through and [TS]

01:17:39   tries to help people along the way and [TS]

01:17:41   that that's who I am and I'm not going [TS]

01:17:43   to be the great savior of everybody and [TS]

01:17:45   I'm not going to be the great villain [TS]

01:17:46   i'm going to be this person who stumbles [TS]

01:17:48   along and tries to do good which I like [TS]

01:17:52   hobo which is you know where I had back [TS]

01:17:53   in the day i like i like that that was [TS]

01:17:56   the resolution that I'm not that guy I'm [TS]

01:17:58   not the guy you want me to be [TS]

01:17:59   who's gonna take this army and save [TS]

01:18:01   everybody that's not who I am i that was [TS]

01:18:03   that was the scene actually that made me [TS]

01:18:05   cry wasn't the end it wasn't anything [TS]

01:18:07   like when the doctor was having his [TS]

01:18:08   revelation there in the graveyard I was [TS]

01:18:10   sobbing sobbing what he said I'm an [TS]

01:18:13   idiot when he said I just like i like [TS]

01:18:15   that line the i'm an idiot but it's like [TS]

01:18:17   building up for that like I'm 900 years [TS]

01:18:19   old and not for the black guy you know i [TS]

01:18:20   like it i would like in such a good [TS]

01:18:23   undercut moment while he's found a [TS]

01:18:24   little bit of the humility that the last [TS]

01:18:26   two or three did not have right now it's [TS]

01:18:29   really 11 the high Lord victorious [TS]

01:18:31   yeah that's yeah yeah no i agree i went [TS]

01:18:35   out a couple things the minor things [TS]

01:18:36   that I thought a i love when Missy [TS]

01:18:39   enters Mary Poppins style i think that [TS]

01:18:42   was yes various so too i definitely like [TS]

01:18:47   in that moment where Clara is gonna kill [TS]

01:18:49   her and then she disappears in blue [TS]

01:18:51   light and it's sort of suggested I mean [TS]

01:18:54   it's basically said that the Brigadier [TS]

01:18:55   kills her but at the same time [TS]

01:18:57   come on my viewing companion I both like [TS]

01:18:59   that was a transmat right she totally [TS]

01:19:00   just teleported out of there [TS]

01:19:02   yeah because the alert as returns a [TS]

01:19:05   killer that photo [TS]

01:19:06   nope everything's a trap master Steven [TS]

01:19:09   Moffat said I think in the Doctor Who [TS]

01:19:11   extra about that one that just doctor [TS]

01:19:13   who has this long wonderful history with [TS]

01:19:15   the master that at the end of all these [TS]

01:19:17   episodes like especially in the eighties [TS]

01:19:19   the master would be unequivocally killed [TS]

01:19:21   he was absolutely completely dead and [TS]

01:19:24   gone no question about it and then a few [TS]

01:19:27   episodes later he comes back and there's [TS]

01:19:29   no explanation except our scales [TS]

01:19:31   that's it yeah that's a master that [TS]

01:19:34   works that's perfect that is the kind of [TS]

01:19:35   villain that he is like that is the [TS]

01:19:37   cartoon you know pop villain like that [TS]

01:19:39   you always feel like you got [TS]

01:19:41   nope didn't get them sorry I so overall [TS]

01:19:45   how do we feel about about this this [TS]

01:19:48   season I I you know I I'm I've heard [TS]

01:19:52   some Glenn talked about one of the best [TS]

01:19:54   sustained runs of episodes in the new [TS]

01:19:58   season what is a what do you all think i [TS]

01:20:01   agree i think the I think the theme that [TS]

01:20:03   that stuck out for me the most was the [TS]

01:20:06   theme was kind of watching [TS]

01:20:08   yes the doctor but Clara and watching [TS]

01:20:10   her her lying through the entire thing [TS]

01:20:13   which was very uncomfortable for me but [TS]

01:20:15   with interesting to watch and then I [TS]

01:20:17   loved how at the very end and we get [TS]

01:20:19   that scene with them over the coffee [TS]

01:20:21   table and they're lying to each other [TS]

01:20:22   all her lies [TS]

01:20:23   up until that point have very much been [TS]

01:20:25   self-serving because she wants to keep [TS]

01:20:27   living this double life and she's [TS]

01:20:29   addicted to these adventures and she [TS]

01:20:30   just wants to keep going [TS]

01:20:31   whereas at the end her lie is a totally [TS]

01:20:34   hundred ninety degrees the opposite [TS]

01:20:36   she's lying for selfless reason because [TS]

01:20:37   she wants to you know make the doctor [TS]

01:20:39   happy let him go and live his life on [TS]

01:20:42   the Gallifrey that she thinks he's found [TS]

01:20:44   in and she's willing to to suck it up [TS]

01:20:46   and and and take one you know just for [TS]

01:20:49   the sake of friendship so I I appreciate [TS]

01:20:51   that they they managed to turn the lying [TS]

01:20:53   around which bothered me so much and [TS]

01:20:55   make it kind of beautiful [TS]

01:20:56   oh yeah I loved watching her grow and [TS]

01:20:58   evolve from where she was last year and [TS]

01:21:03   22 actually having a personality and [TS]

01:21:06   actually having a china and actually [TS]

01:21:08   becoming the doctor at 1.42 points43 [TS]

01:21:11   points there was just lovely [TS]

01:21:14   mostly a lot of my twitter friends [TS]

01:21:15   talking about this season said they're [TS]

01:21:17   like Oh Clara is finally a person how [TS]

01:21:19   delightful even feel like a particular [TS]

01:21:20   episode had whatever the same thing with [TS]

01:21:22   me that's my same reaction is she got [TS]

01:21:25   angry with him she pushed him she went [TS]

01:21:26   to the edge [TS]

01:21:27   she did terrible things and we didn't [TS]

01:21:29   even talk about because we talked about [TS]

01:21:30   that in TV episode but the the you know [TS]

01:21:32   the volcano scene was terrifying i was [TS]

01:21:35   actually a solder that's the one that [TS]

01:21:37   got me sobbing is it was so wrong [TS]

01:21:39   and then he just walked out of his [TS]

01:21:41   acknowledged install a dream you try to [TS]

01:21:43   fool me i followed you and and then the [TS]

01:21:45   I'm not oh that was god that was amazing [TS]

01:21:48   and I don't know that the rest of the [TS]

01:21:50   two-parter held up as well as it could [TS]

01:21:52   have to that but that to me struck as [TS]

01:21:54   emotionally true to the center of the [TS]

01:21:56   the show and I'm not sure I've seen a [TS]

01:21:58   moment like that except maybe in the end [TS]

01:22:01   of time there were some moments a little [TS]

01:22:04   bit like that they were just so raw [TS]

01:22:06   well one of the things that scene really [TS]

01:22:08   got me thinking about was it would have [TS]

01:22:11   almost been more interesting if and [TS]

01:22:13   again going back to to my theme of how [TS]

01:22:16   every episode kind of flipped something [TS]

01:22:18   that we're used to it would have been [TS]

01:22:20   really interesting if it ended up with [TS]

01:22:22   the two of them facing off instead of [TS]

01:22:24   him and and Missy the master you know [TS]

01:22:27   that would have been something we [TS]

01:22:29   haven't seen before I kind of liked it i [TS]

01:22:31   mean i enjoyed the whole season I [TS]

01:22:32   thought that for the most part this was [TS]

01:22:34   so much better quality wise than [TS]

01:22:36   somebody the last few seasons like [TS]

01:22:38   certainly on average and I did like that [TS]

01:22:41   out there were a number of standout [TS]

01:22:42   episodes i think the winner overall for [TS]

01:22:44   me just in terms of like this entire [TS]

01:22:46   season is the as we discuss the [TS]

01:22:48   character arcs Derek's individually both [TS]

01:22:51   the doctor and Clara individually and [TS]

01:22:53   there are together i really enjoyed the [TS]

01:22:57   i really enjoyed this arc incarnation of [TS]

01:22:59   the doctor and I liked matt smith and I [TS]

01:23:00   like david tennant like Chris [TS]

01:23:01   Frankenstein I enjoyed all of them in [TS]

01:23:03   different ways but this feels very [TS]

01:23:05   distinct I like the fact that he's Petty [TS]

01:23:08   and that he's human and that he makes [TS]

01:23:10   mistakes and he's you know like all [TS]

01:23:13   these things kind of he has less [TS]

01:23:15   pleasant sides and I think that's nice [TS]

01:23:18   that we get a chance to see more of that [TS]

01:23:20   in this doctor because it makes him feel [TS]

01:23:21   more fleshed out and i enjoyed Clara's [TS]

01:23:26   development into a character and for [TS]

01:23:27   right from the start like in that first [TS]

01:23:28   episode just the two of them together [TS]

01:23:29   their chemistry is so much better and [TS]

01:23:32   she has so much more agency and so much [TS]

01:23:34   more stuff to do and the fact that she [TS]

01:23:37   is basically treated like an equal which [TS]

01:23:39   i don't think most of the companions are [TS]

01:23:41   and I think that worked worked really [TS]

01:23:44   really well and yeah the while the [TS]

01:23:47   individual plot points i think felt fell [TS]

01:23:49   down into a couple points i think you [TS]

01:23:51   know overall I would say this season is [TS]

01:23:54   a success i think i'm going to enjoy [TS]

01:23:56   this a lot more rewatching it now that [TS]

01:23:59   I've seen where it was going [TS]

01:24:00   because and actually as far as clothes i [TS]

01:24:02   actually liked Clara better in Syria 7b [TS]

01:24:04   and I know I'm in the minority on that [TS]

01:24:05   but I idea idea who I would because I I [TS]

01:24:09   just my best far as favorite goes I [TS]

01:24:11   judge my favorite companions based on [TS]

01:24:13   the ones that I just feel emotionally [TS]

01:24:15   connected to in the people that I would [TS]

01:24:16   want to hang out with i would love to [TS]

01:24:18   hang out with Clarence series seven [TS]

01:24:19   because she seemed like a real [TS]

01:24:21   down-to-earth cool person when she turns [TS]

01:24:23   into a control freak she becomes less of [TS]

01:24:25   a ax but less of that for me but i do [TS]

01:24:27   think that she was still very [TS]

01:24:28   interesting to watch and I still think [TS]

01:24:30   she's a fantastic companion and I do [TS]

01:24:33   agree that she becomes an equal with the [TS]

01:24:35   doctor and that is something i am [TS]

01:24:37   definitely not used to seeing very often [TS]

01:24:39   I mean it has happened you get like you [TS]

01:24:41   know your Romano's and stuff every once [TS]

01:24:42   in awhile but boy it's been awhile and [TS]

01:24:45   we it was it was quite a ride so I think [TS]

01:24:47   now knowing the direction that [TS]

01:24:50   everything was going it will be less [TS]

01:24:51   uncomfortable for me to watch those [TS]

01:24:53   scenes between them like they're [TS]

01:24:55   fighting because that's that's the kind [TS]

01:24:57   of relationship that they have and [TS]

01:24:58   that's what I know people have talked [TS]

01:25:00   about how that's what they were trying [TS]

01:25:01   to do with a six doctor and peri and it [TS]

01:25:03   just never really worked out because for [TS]

01:25:05   one thing they didn't have time and for [TS]

01:25:06   another thing that was a terrible [TS]

01:25:07   American accent in there that just [TS]

01:25:08   didn't work so we remind people we did [TS]

01:25:12   we did our episode last year about [TS]

01:25:13   season 7 and and didn't have a lot of [TS]

01:25:18   positive thoughts about it felt like [TS]

01:25:19   this show we're gonna like I didn't [TS]

01:25:20   listen [TS]

01:25:21   yeah yeah it was and I was looking back [TS]

01:25:24   on that list of episodes from last [TS]

01:25:26   season I thought yeah you know there [TS]

01:25:28   were some ok episodes but i think i [TS]

01:25:30   think on average of the season was was [TS]

01:25:32   much better [TS]

01:25:33   I i I'm not sure whether there were any [TS]

01:25:36   like super amazing classic episodes this [TS]

01:25:38   season although i really like flatline [TS]

01:25:40   yes I like listen I don't think that [TS]

01:25:44   this season will ever be comfort [TS]

01:25:46   watching for me and then that's kind of [TS]

01:25:48   what it boils down to for me as far as [TS]

01:25:50   comparing seven seven and eight is that [TS]

01:25:52   for me doctor who has always sort of [TS]

01:25:54   been a comfort show and I think it's [TS]

01:25:56   wonderful when we get a series like this [TS]

01:25:58   that is just really really consistently [TS]

01:26:02   well crafted from beginning to end and [TS]

01:26:04   challenging [TS]

01:26:05   stuff but that's not the kind of doctor [TS]

01:26:06   who i'm going to go back to and watch [TS]

01:26:07   again and again for comfort 7 series 7 a [TS]

01:26:10   and b's is like that's what I'm going to [TS]

01:26:12   return to when I just want to sit down [TS]

01:26:13   and enjoy something i'll be watching the [TS]

01:26:15   power of three [TS]

01:26:16   yeah I i well I like that was my second [TS]

01:26:18   favorite social classes so I i would I [TS]

01:26:20   totally get what you're saying I think [TS]

01:26:21   one of the things that I like about this [TS]

01:26:23   season is that it was challenging and [TS]

01:26:25   different and dark and trying to take [TS]

01:26:27   Doctor Who in a place that it it hadn't [TS]

01:26:30   been recently at least if not if not [TS]

01:26:32   ever been been recently and that I said [TS]

01:26:36   this on the TV podcast i think if you [TS]

01:26:37   took all the credit away and you I had [TS]

01:26:39   no knowledge of who was making the show [TS]

01:26:41   i would assume it's a completely [TS]

01:26:43   different production team this season [TS]

01:26:44   your season pass because it doesn't feel [TS]

01:26:46   like the same show and and I give full [TS]

01:26:48   credit to Steven Moffat and everybody [TS]

01:26:50   else involved in the in the in the show [TS]

01:26:51   of trying to do something different [TS]

01:26:53   because somebody on Twitter and I forget [TS]

01:26:55   exactly who was said what show in its [TS]

01:26:57   eighth year let alone its 51st year does [TS]

01:27:01   something this different with its format [TS]

01:27:04   and I I even though I don't necessarily [TS]

01:27:06   agree with all of it [TS]

01:27:08   I up you gotta give him credit for doing [TS]

01:27:11   something different shaking it up and [TS]

01:27:13   making it feel like this is a show that [TS]

01:27:15   can keep going and keeps surprising us [TS]

01:27:16   and not just going over the same [TS]

01:27:18   territory over and over again even [TS]

01:27:21   though even though like Erica says i'm [TS]

01:27:24   not sure i would consider this the [TS]

01:27:26   comfort watching of some previous [TS]

01:27:29   seasons i really appreciate the craft [TS]

01:27:33   the artistry the the work on the story [TS]

01:27:36   arcs the Moffett trying to go against [TS]

01:27:39   some of his tendencies and do things a [TS]

01:27:41   little bit differently even if it didn't [TS]

01:27:43   always work i really love the fact that [TS]

01:27:45   it was trying and mostly more often than [TS]

01:27:48   not succeeding so that that that that's [TS]

01:27:50   why I think it was a creative success [TS]

01:27:53   and also i love that they were trying to [TS]

01:27:54   do something different from from the [TS]

01:27:57   previous seasons i mean i've already [TS]

01:27:58   gone back and we watched episodes from [TS]

01:28:01   the series more than I've watched [TS]

01:28:02   anything from seven with the exception [TS]

01:28:05   of of the anniversary episode that when [TS]

01:28:08   I've seen Tom and but you know it will i [TS]

01:28:12   will happily watch robot again I will [TS]

01:28:14   happily watch flatliners and mummy and [TS]

01:28:17   and the caretaker you know and listen I [TS]

01:28:21   may not watch all of them again but I [TS]

01:28:24   just I loved those episodes where you [TS]

01:28:27   know most of the Flatliners by the way [TS]

01:28:29   is Kiefer Sutherland and Kevin hookin [TS]

01:28:31   that you mean flatline it in a doctor [TS]

01:28:33   and julia roberts amazing [TS]

01:28:35   yeah it was pretty good and pretty good [TS]

01:28:37   yeah yeah [TS]

01:28:38   so before we at before we go up because [TS]

01:28:41   we spent a lot of time on this which is [TS]

01:28:42   great but we do need to go Peter Capaldi [TS]

01:28:45   he's been a doctor [TS]

01:28:46   we should talk about him a little bit I [TS]

01:28:47   he isn't great and and we feel like he's [TS]

01:28:50   the doctor i mean i-i ii isn't he great [TS]

01:28:53   let's just agree with me [TS]

01:28:54   yes it is me up i would love love you [TS]

01:28:58   just stayed until he was tired of that [TS]

01:29:00   we never gets tired of it [TS]

01:29:01   actually I i can't remember if it was on [TS]

01:29:03   very or just amongst friends [TS]

01:29:05   somebody was saying that they they hope [TS]

01:29:07   that he sticks around like as long as [TS]

01:29:08   Tom Baker did for like seven years until [TS]

01:29:10   he just doesn't give a crap anymore and [TS]

01:29:12   starts just you know doing the Tom Baker [TS]

01:29:14   thing and acting however he wants and [TS]

01:29:16   not trying because i would love to see [TS]

01:29:18   what that looks like [TS]

01:29:19   are you sure he's not doing that already [TS]

01:29:21   I don't I kind of feel like there's a [TS]

01:29:24   lot of liberties left for him to take I [TS]

01:29:25   don't know it's now the eyebrows man the [TS]

01:29:27   address of the i press know it's great i [TS]

01:29:30   i i i don't know where they go from here [TS]

01:29:33   I think that's the next question is is a [TS]

01:29:35   well Jason I gotta go international [TS]

01:29:38   yeah because we met we did leave out the [TS]

01:29:39   last the last five seconds or school the [TS]

01:29:42   show [TS]

01:29:43   yes so so the credits roll and if you [TS]

01:29:46   turned off the TV you missed hey a [TS]

01:29:48   certain gentleman who does that what [TS]

01:29:50   kind of he didn't know I would you know [TS]

01:29:52   I what a great but I did like that they [TS]

01:29:56   broke out of the credits so yes all [TS]

01:29:58   that's ya allah and then they should [TS]

01:30:00   credit for Nick Frost was perfect [TS]

01:30:02   yes jack ross and franz our class i love [TS]

01:30:04   nick frost so much as a good and he says [TS]

01:30:07   no you would get into this I mean he's [TS]

01:30:10   talking to the audience and the doctor [TS]

01:30:13   at the same time and so he's going to be [TS]

01:30:16   Santa Claus in the Christmas special [TS]

01:30:17   which is hilarious [TS]

01:30:18   although I thought the the clip they [TS]

01:30:20   released for children in need which does [TS]

01:30:23   not look hilarious well and I don't know [TS]

01:30:26   if Jenna Coleman is is is coming back [TS]

01:30:28   next year but we know Peter Capaldi's [TS]

01:30:30   come yeah [TS]

01:30:30   I there are there are lots of rumours [TS]

01:30:32   she's she's appearing at a couple of [TS]

01:30:33   conventions next year which usually is a [TS]

01:30:35   thing that doesn't happen yeah we're [TS]

01:30:37   still on the show but I'm you know [TS]

01:30:39   Steven Moffat is such a kg bastard but I [TS]

01:30:42   wonder I wonder if he's just sending her [TS]

01:30:45   out to do these conventions full well [TS]

01:30:47   knowing that she's not leaving the show [TS]

01:30:48   just to troll fandom because I think [TS]

01:30:50   that's his favorite pastime he does like [TS]

01:30:52   that well he's a fan he totally gets it [TS]

01:30:54   right and that's what makes him [TS]

01:30:55   dangerous is that he knows all of our [TS]

01:30:57   tricks because he's one of us and he [TS]

01:31:00   uses are only his powers against us [TS]

01:31:02   that's his diabolical plan [TS]

01:31:06   Steven Moffat is steven moffat coming [TS]

01:31:09   back I guess he is [TS]

01:31:11   oh yeah he he was talking about the [TS]

01:31:13   plans he had for series 9 at the [TS]

01:31:16   beginning of series 8 so all right [TS]

01:31:19   they've already got writers lined up i [TS]

01:31:20   have some writers lineup for next year [TS]

01:31:22   i'll tell you who's not probably not [TS]

01:31:23   coming back is Danny pink dizzying oh [TS]

01:31:25   sorry to see reduces who soon okay so [TS]

01:31:29   here's what's gonna happen now I'm we're [TS]

01:31:31   going to wait very patiently by our [TS]

01:31:35   televisions for another month and then [TS]

01:31:38   there will be one more new episode of [TS]

01:31:41   Doctor Who to tide us over until the end [TS]

01:31:45   of next summer [TS]

01:31:46   now we are going after that i really [TS]

01:31:48   hope i really hope that the doctors you [TS]

01:31:50   know he's his revelation that he's just [TS]

01:31:52   an idiot with the box i hope that we do [TS]

01:31:54   get that sort of thing [TS]

01:31:56   yeah maybe not a big heavy arc [TS]

01:31:58   throughout the entire next series maybe [TS]

01:32:00   we just get to see the doctor going on [TS]

01:32:02   adventures and space [TS]

01:32:04   yes I got one phrase lottery in there [TS]

01:32:06   too no more networks in cala some gala [TS]

01:32:08   fears body you're gonna have our sorry [TS]

01:32:10   this is always going on and always going [TS]

01:32:12   to be a narc its serial drama so if you [TS]

01:32:14   if you enjoy listening to us talk about [TS]

01:32:17   Doctor Who well first off you enjoyed [TS]

01:32:19   listening to people talking about Doctor [TS]

01:32:21   Who you should listen to Verity Erica's [TS]

01:32:24   podcast with me yes we are people you [TS]

01:32:27   are people with interesting and smart [TS]

01:32:28   things to say about Doctor Who no less [TS]

01:32:30   Shyne are devoted entirely to Doctor Who [TS]

01:32:33   if you would like to to listen to more [TS]

01:32:38   of what we've said about Doctor Who this [TS]

01:32:41   year once again too [TS]

01:32:43   into the TV podcast you can also go to [TS]

01:32:45   the incomparable calm / work / dr. dash [TS]

01:32:49   who and see a list of all the doctor who [TS]

01:32:52   episodes we've ever done on the [TS]

01:32:54   uncomfortable or the spin-off episodes [TS]

01:32:56   there's even a podcast feed you can [TS]

01:32:58   subscribe to just our doctor who [TS]

01:32:59   episodes if you're that crazy about [TS]

01:33:02   Doctor Who I know it spreads pretty far [TS]

01:33:03   out there but if you do that you'll also [TS]

01:33:05   hear our christmas episode which will be [TS]

01:33:07   on the TV podcast we will we will [TS]

01:33:09   convene again at Christmas and talk [TS]

01:33:10   about the Christmas special but until [TS]

01:33:13   then i would like to close the TARDIS [TS]

01:33:15   now closed up the the little tiny Titus [TS]

01:33:18   with a hand sticking out of it and thank [TS]

01:33:20   my guests and Fleischmann thank you for [TS]

01:33:23   confusing me with all of your many [TS]

01:33:24   references as always it's a bit of to me [TS]

01:33:28   sis to meet you Jason and I that's good [TS]

01:33:32   and or bad Dan Morgan thank you for [TS]

01:33:33   being here [TS]

01:33:34   it was a distinct pleasure i'm glad it [TS]

01:33:38   was distinct David lord thank you [TS]

01:33:40   group hug but I don't trust no no the [TS]

01:33:45   truck the hulk is alive hugs all I get [TS]

01:33:47   away and air cans and thank you so much [TS]

01:33:50   for bringing your depth of Doctor Who [TS]

01:33:52   knowledge to us savages here and the [TS]

01:33:54   incomparable thank you for having I [TS]

01:33:57   tried I tried not to take any tangent [TS]

01:33:58   that went too deep there are many other [TS]

01:34:01   podcast where you could go as deep as [TS]

01:34:03   you like with this [TS]

01:34:03   yep so true and that's it until [TS]

01:34:06   Christmas when we'll talk on the TV [TS]

01:34:08   podcast about Doctor Who and until next [TS]

01:34:10   year when we wrap up next season [TS]

01:34:12   Wow for now we have to say goodbye so [TS]

01:34:15   thank you to everybody out there for [TS]

01:34:16   listen to be uncomfortable we will see [TS]

01:34:19   you next time [TS]

01:34:24   wait a minute Jason we can't end it like [TS]

01:34:27   this [TS]

01:34:27   can't right now yes actually you know [TS]

01:34:30   Glenn's not okay and neither are you [TS]

01:34:31   okay sorry [TS]

01:34:33   haha waiting for going to be okay but we [TS]

01:34:38   will be here a long time [TS]

01:34:53   and.and see I don't get it [TS]