0:00:00so I just got back very recently from a
0:00:02trip to Atlanta as part of the pan
0:00:04addict and there was something very
0:00:06different about this year's trip to last
0:00:08year's trip and this year's trip was
0:00:11very different because I met lots of
0:00:13cortex pants a people who had so many
0:00:17people didn't happen last year that came
0:00:19up to us and said that they found out
0:00:21about the panic because of cortex and I
0:00:23know cortex wasn't around the first time
0:00:24but I didn't have time before like all
0:00:27we found out about panic because of X
0:00:29show though there are lots of people
0:00:31that listen to cortex and then went over
0:00:33and and realize the beauty of the pen
0:00:35life and there were i saw i think at
0:00:38least three cortex related shirts blue
0:00:40very nice including the first gray
0:00:43hurley shirt which was amazing how it
0:00:46got there in time so on the first day of
0:00:48the show and like so basically there was
0:00:51I was helping out Brad and his company
0:00:53knocking selling their pain cases like
0:00:56it was like a tradeshow type thing you'd
0:00:57call it and I saw somebody walk in to
0:01:01the room and they had a great early show
0:01:03on and I i basically vaulted the table
0:01:06and lady's name was andrea and she told
0:01:10me that she was watching like the
0:01:13tracking and she was it just arrived
0:01:15before they were going to be leaving for
0:01:17the flight because she like really
0:01:18wanted it to arrive because it was going
0:01:20to be arriving on the same day right and
0:01:22yeah I was over the moon is the first
0:01:24one I'd even seen because mine hadn't
0:01:26arrived yet
0:01:27that's fantastic and it was it was great
0:01:29and I saw a cup i saw i think at least
0:01:31two monkey brain shirts and see greater
0:01:34whole spectrum representing at the show
0:01:37so it was it was pretty awesome and it
0:01:39was really nice to to meet people that
0:01:41found out about the panic from from
0:01:44cortex that that was a real nice little
0:01:46thing that happened that's one of those
0:01:47things where if you're listening to us
0:01:49talking right now
0:01:50you already know if your app in person
0:01:53yeah and then you're probably super
0:01:54excited to discover that there is a
0:01:56podcast entirely devoted to your
0:01:59obsession so go check out the pan addict
0:02:01this the first I'm hearing about it if
0:02:03you know your pen person like this is
0:02:06this is for you this is what's great
0:02:07about the internet like there's
0:02:08something for everyone
0:02:10and Mike just happens to be part of the
0:02:12pen nerd Kingdom today I realized the
0:02:17impact that you and the show have had on
0:02:20the way that I work i learned a very
0:02:22valuable lesson today
0:02:23oh where did you learn so i have
0:02:26recently switched over to using a
0:02:29different accounting software I'm using
0:02:31one of those online accounting things
0:02:33that like pulls in your transactions and
0:02:35you reconcile and stuff as opposed to
0:02:37what i was doing previously which was
0:02:39entering manually all my transactions
0:02:41into my accounts own system right right
0:02:44so I moved over to the online system
0:02:46because it looked like it was easier you
0:02:48just it pulls in the transactions for
0:02:49you and then you have to just have a few
0:02:52buttons to say what's what but i have
0:02:54had some problems with this in that
0:02:56there i cannot get the the balances to
0:02:58match up
0:02:59who so there is a discrepancy between
0:03:01transactions being pulled in and what my
0:03:04bank says right and I could try to work
0:03:07out and I couldn't work it out and sat
0:03:09down today I was like put roll up my
0:03:11sleeves and was like today is the day
0:03:13where i find this error i started
0:03:15working on it it got worse
0:03:17uh-huh and I thought I know what I'll do
0:03:19I open mail email my accountant was like
0:03:22how much money you need to give you to
0:03:23fix this and I was like this is what
0:03:27gray has done for me i was just looking
0:03:30I have this problem is like I can't do
0:03:33it like what do I need to do to get you
0:03:36to do it and he's like semi all this
0:03:37documentation so I sent him a bunch of
0:03:39stuff and now hopefully there are people
0:03:42somewhere working on this problem for me
0:03:45and they're gonna fix it for me it's a
0:03:47nice relief isn't it it's amazing i am
0:03:49doomed
0:03:50I feel so much better and I even checked
0:03:52off in OmniFocus fix the problems like
0:03:54it's going to be fixed now I really need
0:03:56to have to worry about it from my
0:03:58perspective it's fixed it's fixed enough
0:04:00it's someone else's problem now
0:04:02yeah this is a we talked about this
0:04:04awhile back but but definitely the
0:04:06advice of bring on an accountant as soon
0:04:08as you can is something that everybody
0:04:10should follow it was one of the first
0:04:11things that I did when I when I set up
0:04:14the company i'm not even before I was
0:04:15fully self employed and just as soon as
0:04:18I set up this thing that was meant to be
0:04:20serious i was like i just got an account
0:04:22straightaway but now it's like I just
0:04:24don't want to deal with anything related
0:04:27to this stuff so if somebody could just
0:04:30do it for me that'd be great and once
0:04:32they fix this problem we're gonna be
0:04:33like how much money would it cost for
0:04:35this to be done every month for me
0:04:36yeah like that I never touch this my
0:04:39current situation with my accountants is
0:04:41that I used to think oh how can people
0:04:43live like this but now I'm one of these
0:04:45people which is like okay I since I have
0:04:48to do some money transfers with my
0:04:50business like I'm aware of the bank
0:04:52balances in a vague way but I do know
0:04:55accounting at all until the end of the
0:04:56year and it's like here you go guys
0:04:58enjoy the last 12 months of my bank
0:05:00statements and this dropbox folder
0:05:03called receipts that I've been saving
0:05:04random stuff into I have the same one
0:05:06right over the course of an entire year
0:05:09right all unlabeled our underlord hit in
0:05:13any way is like you know what I know
0:05:16this is going to cost a small fortune to
0:05:18do but you know what
0:05:20here you go guys like I what we will
0:05:22this is how commerce works like I don't
0:05:24want to do with thing i will pay you to
0:05:26do the thing the value of my time to not
0:05:30do the thing is greater than the amount
0:05:31that i am paying you so like everybody
0:05:34wins
0:05:34but I you know years ago me would have
0:05:36been appalled to see this folder called
0:05:39receipts that I have now which is just
0:05:41an ultimate crap box of everything
0:05:44because I'm feeling good about maybe
0:05:47giving somebody this job to do because i
0:05:51have just cancelled my co-working
0:05:55membership
0:05:56oh really yeah I've not been there this
0:05:59year
0:05:59hmm well that's that's a good reason to
0:06:01cancel and i was paying a hundred and
0:06:04twenty pounds a month for Lou and I've
0:06:06just realized that one of the things
0:06:08that I thought that the year of less was
0:06:11going to do for me you know like my off
0:06:13week students give me the time to go to
0:06:17my co-working space for at least two
0:06:20days when we can one day the next week
0:06:22who what I've done is start fitting in
0:06:24lots of lunches with friends and you
0:06:28know colleagues during this period of
0:06:31time which is much better than go to the
0:06:33co-working space
0:06:34so i guess i'm just not going there so i
0:06:37decided to cancel it and I've gotta say
0:06:40I was really pleased with the process i
0:06:43emailed them and was like can I pulls
0:06:44this council this and then it was just
0:06:47cancelled immediately and I was like
0:06:49that's how you do it
0:06:51don't don't make me jump through hoops
0:06:53yeah you know justjust counts all the
0:06:55membership and and I system thank you
0:06:57for doing this like if I and I mean this
0:06:59like if I will ever want this again I'm
0:07:01going back to them now because they just
0:07:03didn't cause me hassle so i was very
0:07:06happy about that so it was a great space
0:07:08and i loved it and it was really good
0:07:10it's very flexible but if you're not
0:07:11going there then one must spend the
0:07:13money on ya and then that's just a just
0:07:15a business expense for absolutely no
0:07:17purpose that's no good
0:07:18and there are so many places around the
0:07:20areas that i was in that if I really
0:07:22wanted to just go away and work for a
0:07:23day I could find somewhere I could just
0:07:25go to a coffee shop like it wouldn't be
0:07:26an issue
0:07:27yeah jumping back for a second though
0:07:29when did you officially sign up for the
0:07:32year of less aegis you just threw that
0:07:33out real casually like you've always
0:07:35been on board with this too but I don't
0:07:37remember any point where you are
0:07:38officially signing up for the year of
0:07:39class as well
0:07:40well I mean in our year of less
0:07:41discussions I've been mentioning my off
0:07:44week right
0:07:45so for me that is actually part of the
0:07:47year of less which is I found two days
0:07:50every two weeks that were completely
0:07:52open
0:07:53whoo and I've been filling them with
0:07:54things that i'm finding fun to do even
0:07:57like a little podcast things but they're
0:07:59fun things not work things who so it's
0:08:02been good and I've been enjoying it
0:08:04no I'm very glad to hear that Mike this
0:08:07episode of cortex is brought to you by
0:08:10freshbooks freshbooks the company on a
0:08:13mission to help small business owners
0:08:15save the time and stress that comes
0:08:18running businesses and it all is focused
0:08:20around the finances the invoicing part
0:08:22let me tell you a story so to record
0:08:24this last Friday was the end of the
0:08:26month and the end of the month means
0:08:28lots of invoices need to be sent so i
0:08:29sat down on friday as i always do and I
0:08:31open up freshbooks and open up our
0:08:33spreadsheets and I went to town and in
0:08:3615 minutes I had like 30 invoices sent
0:08:39out it was super super simple for me to
0:08:42do this it takes just 30 seconds to
0:08:44create and send an invoice of freshbooks
0:08:46what I really love is all of the
0:08:48information
0:08:48shouldn't you use before I saved in
0:08:50there all of your clients to save dinner
0:08:51so it's easy to get to them all of the
0:08:53line items that you've created a saved
0:08:55in there with the default pricing and
0:08:56stuff so it makes it just a couple of
0:08:58taps to get an invoice sent out all of
0:09:02the activities tracks you know when
0:09:04people have looked at them you can send
0:09:05out late payment reminders as well if
0:09:07you like
0:09:08and because you're freshbooks customer
0:09:09you'll be paid faster freshbooks
0:09:11customers get paid five days faster on
0:09:14average when compared to their
0:09:16competition with freshbooks you'll be
0:09:18able to integrate with loads of your
0:09:19favorite services you'll be able to
0:09:21track all of your time to help you send
0:09:23out better invoices if you are a time
0:09:24tracking person they're fantastic
0:09:26support they have the ability for you to
0:09:28track all of your receipts it is super
0:09:30simple and I couldn't recommend it
0:09:33enough
0:09:34the best thing for you to go and do is
0:09:36just try it for yourself
0:09:38super simple to get started you don't
0:09:39need to be a numbers person and fresh
0:09:41books are offering a 30-day free trial
0:09:44to listeners of this show have no credit
0:09:46card required you can just go to fresh
0:09:49books.com / cortex to sign up and claim
0:09:51your 30 days of unrestricted use you'll
0:09:54be able to send better invoices quicker
0:09:56and please enter cortex in how you heard
0:09:59about a section so freshbooks knows that
0:10:01you came from this show
0:10:03trust me go check them out go to fresh
0:10:04books.com / cortex thank you so much for
0:10:07freshbooks that support of this show and
0:10:10relay of them
0:10:11alright so let's have an update on gray
0:10:15hiring mm so the last time we spoke I
0:10:20think it was very much left in a i'm
0:10:22going to change my life and I'm going to
0:10:24hire someone is that is that how we left
0:10:26it and I don't think that's how i would
0:10:28freeze anything that was kinda like that
0:10:30i didn't get any cv's which I was very
0:10:33surprised about
0:10:35I didn't get any well my assistant sent
0:10:38me a message like why the hell my horse
0:10:41i'm getting all of these series from and
0:10:43the system works known to me that was
0:10:48about as well as like actually this is
0:10:49great like cortex listeners are
0:10:50responsible listeners think they're
0:10:52using of the contact form on my website
0:10:53they're not bothering like it's not a
0:10:55joke right
0:10:56like yeah i would like to thank everyone
0:10:58that realized there was no point in
0:11:00sending it to
0:11:01because there really wasn't any point
0:11:03because I wouldn't have done anything
0:11:04with it i would just read your CV and
0:11:07you don't be doing that like I would
0:11:08have just read it and and looked at it
0:11:10and thought about it
0:11:11sending it to grace system was the best
0:11:13move yes and I would like to thank
0:11:15everyone who sent in their job
0:11:16application i have looked at none of
0:11:19them
0:11:19yep because the system is not setup yet
0:11:22he weren't really supposed to reach out
0:11:24yet like I wasn't I wasn't ready for you
0:11:26yet and we will I say bravo to everyone
0:11:29that did seize the day I mean now I'm
0:11:32making a joke like if I was in that
0:11:35position of wanting to do this kind of
0:11:38thing and heard this you would have
0:11:39gotten my CV because why not you even
0:11:43gonna look at it you're just going to be
0:11:44in it and when you eventually put out
0:11:46the process of hiring you can apply
0:11:47again
0:11:48seize the day great see the gray no no I
0:11:51don't know why I said that I reject that
0:11:53statement there will be no seasoning of
0:11:56the grey I do not like this
0:11:58I've sees the gray do not like this one
0:12:00of them
0:12:02alright so what's going on then at house
0:12:05how's this process progressed
0:12:07ok so here is here is the thing listener
0:12:10where we're going to talk a little bit
0:12:12about what I have been up to
0:12:15I've been preparing a little bit for
0:12:18this cortex episode which I usually just
0:12:20leave in the hands of Mikael echo Mike
0:12:22just figure something out i'll shut up
0:12:23and talk about it but this time i was
0:12:25like i think i actually need to try to
0:12:27organize what I've been up to us that I
0:12:29have something to show Mike and so that
0:12:30we can talk about it but this
0:12:31conversation i think is necessarily
0:12:33going to be partly mixed in with a kind
0:12:37of mini cortex book club which relates
0:12:41to a book called who the a method for
0:12:45hiring but Jeff smarts listeners Mike
0:12:49just made a sad sound i started reading
0:12:53this book i don't know like a week ago
0:12:54and I message Mike and said oh hey Mike
0:12:58you might want to read this maybe this
0:12:59will be like a little cortex book club
0:13:01because i'm going to go through this
0:13:03book over the next few days and and
0:13:05related to what I am working
0:13:07on and Mike and I have not discussed it
0:13:09at all since that point other than the
0:13:11fact that i know mike has read it and I
0:13:13think that sound is is not favorable
0:13:17from where do you find these things
0:13:19where they come from this is a nightmare
0:13:23of a book this thing if it was terrific
0:13:26the place I find these is I have an
0:13:33enormous txt file called books to read
0:13:36that I make a little note about why they
0:13:39were entered in on the list at some
0:13:41point and so at some stage past me wrote
0:13:46down who book and then in brackets
0:13:48related to hiring and I have no idea why
0:13:52or when passed me wrote this down
0:13:55I just knew whenever I would review that
0:13:56list of like Oh someday if future me
0:13:59ever needs it past me has written down
0:14:00in a book about hiring and so since that
0:14:03was just there last week when i was
0:14:05getting serious to think about trying to
0:14:07bring more people on board I thought oh
0:14:08passed me broke this thing down so i'm
0:14:10going to read it
0:14:11the answer is I have no idea really
0:14:12where it came from other than I just
0:14:14have a list of books some of which have
0:14:16notes to future me about when they might
0:14:19be useful to read so these
0:14:20who-knows-where book recommendations
0:14:22come from they just appear Mike I didn't
0:14:24like this one at all
0:14:25mm-hmm at least it was short it was like
0:14:28four and a half hours
0:14:29yes it was a it was a business book that
0:14:33was very short i read it over the space
0:14:35of an hour on a Saturday and then I took
0:14:38a flight to and back from the continent
0:14:41and i finished in that time so i think
0:14:42it was like three hours in total to read
0:14:44is very short which is a virtue in the
0:14:47business book world but I bring this up
0:14:49now simply because i think this book is
0:14:51going to be kind of mixed in with what
0:14:54has been going on so if this is for the
0:14:56listeners a sort of cortex business book
0:14:59club
0:14:59yeah there was a book that was red i
0:15:01just want to say about my way of this
0:15:03book like I also expressed many bad
0:15:06feelings the e-myth an email was
0:15:09entertaining in its terribleness mm this
0:15:12book was just boring and terrible
0:15:14which is a worse mix I really didn't
0:15:17like this one can I just say like what
0:15:20we're talking about the book one of the
0:15:21things that I found the most egregious
0:15:22about this audiobook em they're
0:15:25sometimes it's there are three instances
0:15:27in the book where the narrator of the
0:15:29book reads a quote from someone who
0:15:32there are 23 reads quotes from people
0:15:34that English when he is an American guy
0:15:37and he puts on english accents haha when
0:15:41he reads the quotas it was a bad
0:15:45decision do don't do that and there was
0:15:48also a quote from a Colombian person and
0:15:51he puts on a hey gringo type accent and
0:15:54it is so bad i don't know what he does
0:15:59it it just doesn't make sense to me why
0:16:00does it like I can't think of any reason
0:16:02why you would need to put on an accent I
0:16:05feel like he couldn't help it right they
0:16:08get you started
0:16:09is the narrator of the book also the
0:16:11author of the book i feel like the
0:16:12answer has to be s after you've
0:16:14described this to me
0:16:15no actually it was narrated by somebody
0:16:17else patrick smaller and why they hired
0:16:21him or let him do whatever it was he
0:16:23thought he was a good idea to do but he
0:16:26did it anyway I mean it thinking about
0:16:28it for a second i would expect that if
0:16:30it was a novel like if you're reading a
0:16:32novel in a character has an accent I
0:16:34would expect the narrator to put on that
0:16:35accent institutions it seems almost
0:16:38inappropriate in a business book
0:16:40pointless because he doesn't have any
0:16:43character original American accent when
0:16:45he reads quotes from from American
0:16:47people he just does it with the English
0:16:49person the Colombian person
0:16:51mhm fantastic fantastic while we are
0:16:56just discussing this audiobook briefly i
0:16:58have to say Mike that i think i know i'm
0:17:01not going to change your behavior on
0:17:03this but I think you are making a
0:17:05terrible decision listening in audio
0:17:08form to these business books that i
0:17:11recommend is I think a key way to
0:17:15survive the kind of writing that you
0:17:17find in most business books while also
0:17:20extracting the value to be had in them
0:17:23comes from learning how to get through
0:17:26them very quickly because one of the
0:17:28problem
0:17:28what i have is i have to listen to the
0:17:30lists right you have to listen to the
0:17:33lists there are a few points that i
0:17:35highlighted in here or just for the show
0:17:38was like oh look pointless antecdotes
0:17:40right and there's just so much in these
0:17:44books that if you're reading it you can
0:17:46jump ahead or skim or like with this
0:17:48book III basically floated over say the
0:17:53middle third of it because I recognize
0:17:55immediately that this was just not
0:17:56really useful in any in any way shape or
0:17:58form but if you are listening to it you
0:18:00have to have every single word enter
0:18:03your brain and so I just I don't think
0:18:06this is the way to go with business
0:18:08books like if we're going to continue
0:18:09the business book club and we're going
0:18:11to continue recommending books to you I
0:18:14like I worry for your sanity a year down
0:18:16the line if you continue to listen to
0:18:18that because what's gonna happen when I
0:18:20recommend something that's like 16 hours
0:18:21long and you listen to the whole thing
0:18:23you're gonna lose your mind
0:18:24yeah I i think i'm going to try and make
0:18:26a book by book decision like creativity
0:18:29inc i wanted the audio book because it
0:18:31was more its there's a lot of story in
0:18:33there but this one i didn't need the
0:18:35audiobook for this one you didn't get
0:18:37the others because i was actually
0:18:38skipping the audiobook I've been perfect
0:18:41just get me out of this section this is
0:18:42horrific I don't need this and this one
0:18:45also suffers from all of the problems
0:18:47that all of these types of books is like
0:18:49a ton of statistics and figures that are
0:18:51thrown out that you just have to accept
0:18:53the true or not really and just keep
0:18:55moving on yeah it's like this is like
0:18:57all we in ninety percent of people have
0:18:59this problem like how how did you get to
0:19:02this and also so much of these books
0:19:06just focused on naturally they're just
0:19:09tools to sell this company's processes
0:19:12yeah of course they want you to come on
0:19:14by what they're selling
0:19:15yeah but that the whole kind of overall
0:19:17thing about this book is the a player
0:19:19that's what they talked about like
0:19:20hiring the right person basic right so i
0:19:23can see why you'd want to read it
0:19:25there are a couple of interest in parts
0:19:26in this book that we might get to a
0:19:28little bit later on I can see how
0:19:30someone could extract some use from this
0:19:32but it really for me was just like three
0:19:35sentences and look that will be
0:19:37ok so let's talk about this then
0:19:41ok so we discussed last time i'm looking
0:19:43to bring someone on board for all of the
0:19:46various reasons that we mentioned
0:19:47particularly some health concerns and a
0:19:49few other things and just like I need
0:19:51more help with what I'm doing I'm
0:19:53reaching the point also just with like
0:19:55to podcasts and the youtube channel it's
0:19:57like that it is useful for me to
0:19:59structure this in a more useful way so
0:20:02I've been thinking about it a lot and
0:20:04this book who combined with also the
0:20:13insanity of emails revisited I feel like
0:20:17okay taking the useful parts of both of
0:20:22these books has really helped me clarify
0:20:27my thinking process about this and
0:20:29helped me move forward a little bit so
0:20:31here's what's going on
0:20:33we discussed previously this idea from
0:20:35mammoth revisited about right out your
0:20:37company as though you don't exist right
0:20:42out all of the the jobs that need to be
0:20:45done as though you have some huge
0:20:47company you're not a part of it and
0:20:48there's just a bunch of employees
0:20:50yeah so all of the jobs going to be done
0:20:52and then assign them to like to the
0:20:53imaginary people the roles that would
0:20:55need to be filled to to do the work
0:20:57right so like marketing manager and
0:21:00production manager and that kind of
0:21:01thing for you I guess right that that's
0:21:03exactly right now I i had sort of done
0:21:08this in the past but i always found it
0:21:11at a like it was useful but a bit like
0:21:14an actionable or yeah i think when you
0:21:17would have done this though you would
0:21:19have very much been in the mindset of
0:21:20just working out how much you need to do
0:21:23as opposed to ever thinking that you
0:21:24were going to give these jobs to someone
0:21:26yeah they're there was a there was a
0:21:28lack of externalizing about this and so
0:21:32I had done it but I hadn't actually even
0:21:34bothered to kind of keep any of the
0:21:36writing out that I had ever done on
0:21:37these things like it was just not super
0:21:39actionable but the idea was very
0:21:41valuable now the extractable valuable
0:21:45idea in this book
0:21:47who
0:21:47comes comes like many of these books
0:21:50right away right that's right at the
0:21:53front you know there's like an
0:21:55introductory chapter of nonsense and
0:21:57they're like in almost every single one
0:21:59of these books like chapter 2 has almost
0:22:01everything that you're going to get out
0:22:02of it and that was the case with this
0:22:04one and what this book lays out is a
0:22:09format for which you can write a useful
0:22:14job description so it lays out this
0:22:17thing like here is how you can write
0:22:19down on a piece of paper a job
0:22:22description that can also work as a way
0:22:25to evaluate whether or not the person
0:22:28who was working for you is working out
0:22:30and I felt like okay well this is a
0:22:32really interesting this is a really
0:22:34interesting idea because previously just
0:22:36thinking about job descriptions you know
0:22:37it makes me think of like when i applied
0:22:38as a teacher or you know any of the work
0:22:40that I've ever had the job description
0:22:41is like a piece of paper that you see
0:22:43once and then you never see it again
0:22:44ever and get me just you know it's like
0:22:47this irrelevant thing and so I had this
0:22:51little outline now like okay here's how
0:22:53to formulate a job description and that
0:22:56all of a sudden clicked in my mind like
0:22:59okay I can sit down now and thinking
0:23:04about how i am going to structure the
0:23:06job descriptions feeds into how do i
0:23:09need to separate out my company into a
0:23:11bunch of jobs and separating out upon my
0:23:14company into a bunch of jobs also then
0:23:16clarifies what is the job description of
0:23:18each of these and so I had this
0:23:20surprising afternoon it was a Sunday
0:23:23afternoon i read the first two chapters
0:23:25of this book and everything's seem like
0:23:27a kind of fell into place and I sat down
0:23:30and I wrote out a kind of basic
0:23:34description of the company that I run
0:23:38and I wrote out a basic idea for some of
0:23:42the jobs that I want and it was a really
0:23:44interesting afternoon because though on
0:23:46this podcast we have sort of jokingly
0:23:48referred to this idea that like oh my
0:23:50can I talk to each other as CEO to CEO
0:23:53and you have to think about yourself as
0:23:55the CEO is separate from the person
0:23:56who's working in the job and like all of
0:23:58this kind of stuff I had this feeling
0:24:00after
0:24:01that afternoon of like oh I think I
0:24:03really was a CEO today I think this is
0:24:06the first day i actually was doing the
0:24:09kinds of things that a CEO would really
0:24:11do sitting down very seriously very
0:24:15formally structuring out the company and
0:24:19structuring out some job descriptions
0:24:22for people who were going to maybe work
0:24:25in that company even though sometimes
0:24:26they are me so I have a have a folder of
0:24:29work to share with you Mike
0:24:30wow are you interested to sing yeah very
0:24:33much so what I'm sending you is some of
0:24:36the stuff that i did and now there's two
0:24:42main things in in my life here right
0:24:44like i have the podcasts and I have the
0:24:46YouTube channels and i have since we
0:24:50last spoke made some progress towards
0:24:54helping out with the podcast
0:24:57particularly hello Internet podcast and
0:24:59i am going to credit it in no small part
0:25:03to like thinking about this in a very
0:25:05formal way so i actually wrote out the
0:25:09the podcast as though it was a kind of
0:25:11separate company that produces the work
0:25:15that I am doing so if you take a look
0:25:18you see I actually have a little kind of
0:25:20mind map flowchart of what the hello
0:25:24internet company looks like with various
0:25:26jobs to be done what I was thinking is I
0:25:29have these two areas of my life one of
0:25:32which is like the dominant big one which
0:25:36is the youtube videos like that is the
0:25:37much harder much more difficult problem
0:25:40for me to solve which we will get to but
0:25:42there is an easier problem which relates
0:25:45to bringing on some help with the hello
0:25:47Internet podcast i do a bunch of edits
0:25:49on the hello Internet podcast there's
0:25:51like a ton of back and work that happens
0:25:53with that podcast and so I kind of felt
0:25:56like okay let me try to start with hello
0:26:02internet first so that if i do anything
0:26:04dumb or if I make any mistakes with this
0:26:06or like just it's an easier conceptual
0:26:09problem to bring on someone to help with
0:26:11hello internet and also quite frankly
0:26:15it's lower stakes like if something goes
0:26:17terribly wrong with hello internet i
0:26:20would much rather have that happen then
0:26:22have something go terribly wrong with
0:26:24the video production like I can
0:26:25ultimately kind of fix the hello
0:26:28internet problem much more easier than I
0:26:29could the the YouTube problem it like
0:26:32you know for example something happens
0:26:33in the audio it can be repaired and it
0:26:36was just you know people can get the new
0:26:37version right that's not what happens in
0:26:40YouTube you know you've spoken about
0:26:41this on hello enter in the past i
0:26:43believe once the video is up that's it
0:26:47but yes nothing you can do
0:26:49yeah there's nothing i can do and and
0:26:51also looks like if something gets
0:26:52uploaded you know it's going out to
0:26:54literally millions of people maybe like
0:26:57it's a bigger scale mistake as big as
0:26:59careful going to look for a bigger scale
0:27:02problem at something dumb or something
0:27:03just doesn't work out right or anything
0:27:05so I wrote this out and I was thinking
0:27:09about how in my process like what like
0:27:12what is my role here and the thing that
0:27:15I kind of settled on is I'm trying to
0:27:18think of myself as like the audio
0:27:22director for the podcasts em in some
0:27:26sense of like okay I can work with other
0:27:28people who helped produce this and so I
0:27:33wanted to bring someone on who would
0:27:36help with parts of the process of making
0:27:39a hello Internet podcast so prior to
0:27:43this the structure was basically i did
0:27:46three cuts of the podcast the first cut
0:27:49was for content to just remove all kinds
0:27:52of boring stuff that doesn't that
0:27:54shouldn't go in the final show like and
0:27:56we record just a ton of stuff and not
0:27:58all of it always makes it in i would do
0:28:00a second super intense kind of like
0:28:02tightening everything as much as
0:28:05possible trying to remove gaps trying to
0:28:08clean up little audio mistakes I just
0:28:10doing a ton and ton of little edits
0:28:13there and then I would do a final listen
0:28:15through and building of show notes like
0:28:17i was doing kind of three runs
0:28:20and so structuring this and thinking it
0:28:22through I realized okay i can bring on
0:28:25someone to help with that middle edit of
0:28:30the podcast that someone can help me
0:28:33with that because it's a huge amount of
0:28:35work and it also doesn't necessarily
0:28:39have the same quality of like well we
0:28:41talked about a thing and we don't want
0:28:43it in the final show and like it's our
0:28:44decision just to cut that like that is a
0:28:46decision that ultimately i have to be
0:28:49making that like cannot be delegated to
0:28:50somebody else but the middle section
0:28:52totally can be delegated to somebody
0:28:55else but for the moment since since i'm
0:28:58all new to this right on this is I'm
0:29:00very unused to bringing people on the
0:29:02idea is that I'm just going to be
0:29:05listening to the work that has been done
0:29:07in the second cut and giving any
0:29:10feedback as is necessary and that kind
0:29:13of mirrors our working relationship
0:29:15which is like me and you have spoken
0:29:16about this and and what way both feel
0:29:19that we're getting closer to the point
0:29:20where you don't need to to have an edit
0:29:22run on the show right kind of think
0:29:24we're there yet because you know I'm
0:29:25still tweaking things in a way that I
0:29:28think makes sense for both of us but I
0:29:30think we're both understanding our
0:29:32process a lot more and I think we're
0:29:34getting to the point where you wouldn't
0:29:35have to do it if you didn't want to
0:29:37yes I was going to say Mike that you are
0:29:40the very person who has given me
0:29:41confidence that this kind of thing can
0:29:43even happen success because precisely
0:29:45this because when we when we first
0:29:47started with the show you would hand me
0:29:49back in episode and i would add quite a
0:29:52lot of cuts to it
0:29:53I I think that's fair to say like the
0:29:55first anyone's I was like mm I'm gonna
0:30:00take out a whole lot more then then has
0:30:02been done the first time and and over
0:30:04time working together the two of us we
0:30:07are now at the stage where i find myself
0:30:09when I'm doing the final listen through
0:30:11cortex not changing a lot or even some
0:30:14of the changes that I make our I think
0:30:16are they that significance
0:30:19I'm not sure that they are so like I'll
0:30:21do them because I prefer it but if you
0:30:23went out this way like whatever
0:30:25yeah it would be fine it wouldn't be any
0:30:28disaster as doing cortex together
0:30:30has been an interesting learning
0:30:33experience for me in this like let's go
0:30:36back and forth with another person like
0:30:37we can talk to each other about what do
0:30:39we want is a thing and like so I think
0:30:41that's part of why if you know if you
0:30:44like me to put more than him out there
0:30:45isn't a cortex chopped because we have
0:30:49always had a different kind of working
0:30:51relationship then I guess you've had in
0:30:54some of your upper works right
0:30:56oh yeah and on the cortex 1 i'm just the
0:31:00talent right yeah you want
0:31:01yeah i have just rolling with you
0:31:03playback airing sunglasses and use ready
0:31:05to roll you know yeah you know sometimes
0:31:07you have to knock on the trailer door to
0:31:09get me to come out at the right time to
0:31:11do the recording mr. gray we're ready
0:31:13for you now
0:31:14yeah most of it is just out of my hands
0:31:16i just show up on the show notes you
0:31:18know look at this isn't that nice
0:31:20ok i'll read my lines and then I go back
0:31:21but yeah so doing this with you over
0:31:25over this time has let me feel like okay
0:31:27i can i can take what has happened to
0:31:29with cortex and like scale it up to the
0:31:34next level with this thing that is now
0:31:36much more my responsibility then then
0:31:39cortex is like right now the way it is i
0:31:44am the backend of hello internet like I
0:31:47do all the editing i do all of the
0:31:48publishing and the promoting of it i
0:31:50like on social media and all of that
0:31:52stuff and so this is part of what i've
0:31:54been doing here is like okay I think I
0:31:56see a place where an audio editor can
0:31:58come in and then it was also in this
0:32:01separation of tasks that I that I
0:32:05realized something which was I've always
0:32:08had this kind of conversation with my
0:32:10wife when I talked about putting up a
0:32:11hello Internet episode that I was always
0:32:13aware that on the day when I would do
0:32:15the kind of final preparations and
0:32:17getting ready to put it up I was always
0:32:18surprised by how long it actually took
0:32:21to go from export final mp3 2 episode is
0:32:28live promoted everywhere discussion is
0:32:30up it's all ready to go
0:32:32they just get caught me by surprise how
0:32:34long it always took and so this was one
0:32:36of these cases where I thought okay when
0:32:39I was making this chart i was thinking
0:32:42of this in terms of well there's this
0:32:43kind
0:32:44the distribution side to this business
0:32:46as well that in my mind I was always
0:32:48kind of rounding off as oh it's not much
0:32:51work it's very easy for me to do i can
0:32:53just do this really quickly right but
0:32:55thinking about what i got from that book
0:32:57about who and thinking about the e-myth
0:33:00stuff and like okay imagine i couldn't
0:33:02do any of it
0:33:03there needs to be essentially a a
0:33:05distribution person and so I was sitting
0:33:08down and writing out here are all of the
0:33:12steps as though I couldn't do anything
0:33:15to take the mp3 file and get it up on
0:33:18youtube get it up in the lips and
0:33:20back-end get out on email campaigns get
0:33:23it up on the radicand promoted on
0:33:24facebook again there are so many more
0:33:27steps to that then you really think of
0:33:29because as listeners will know i'm
0:33:31already quite a checklist person like
0:33:32I've i have long checklist already for
0:33:35all of these kinds of things but it was
0:33:37a whole nother level to sit down and
0:33:40really right out like which boxes need
0:33:44to be ticked in lipson which systems
0:33:46need thumbnails uploaded to them what
0:33:49drop-down boxes four categories need to
0:33:51be selected right like really going
0:33:54through and doing every little step i
0:33:57was absolutely shocked when i took a
0:33:59look at the final checklist and thought
0:34:00I can't believe i was doing all of this
0:34:03and this is the part where it's like
0:34:06okay there is work to be done here and
0:34:10the plan is that my personal assistant
0:34:12is going to take on a lot of the
0:34:15distribution role in this kind of like
0:34:17hello internet company that is like so
0:34:20it's it's like the distribution
0:34:21assistant is the person who is going to
0:34:23help out with a bunch of this stuff it
0:34:26was just a really interesting exercise
0:34:28it's one of these cases where even when
0:34:32you think you are organized and you are
0:34:34on top of things a shift in perspective
0:34:36a little bit of actionable information
0:34:39can really change and bring into focus
0:34:44certain kinds of problems and this is
0:34:46why i had this interesting feeling after
0:34:48this afternoon of like I think this was
0:34:50the first day that I was actually a CEO
0:34:52right of of sitting down writing it out
0:34:55being really specific
0:34:57like what like what needs to happen when
0:35:00and what needs to happen where how do
0:35:03you think that you will be in this
0:35:05scenario do you think that you'll be
0:35:07constantly checking in with people that
0:35:09keeping an eye on things being done
0:35:11what do you think you'll be able to kind
0:35:13of just let it happen
0:35:15the hope is that I'm able to just let it
0:35:19happen then I'm i'm able to just step
0:35:22away from it as much as possible
0:35:24now if you take a look in that folder
0:35:27that i sent you
0:35:28mhm you will see there's a file which is
0:35:31called audio editor hii audio editor
0:35:33yep so open that up this episode of
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0:36:13about upgrading the mysql installation
0:36:17on the other end of your hosting
0:36:20whatever who knows what you're supposed
0:36:22to do is there some server somewhere
0:36:23that has my website on it that stuff is
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0:37:01customizing one of their templates to
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0:37:47show and all of real afm ok
0:37:51Oh mission ok so now this is where i
0:37:58have followed the outline in the who
0:38:00book huh of what a job description is
0:38:04right and so there's there's a mission
0:38:06which is like the one sentence
0:38:08description of what the job is for and
0:38:10then below that there are four bullet
0:38:13points of here are the outcomes that
0:38:16this person is supposed to produce
0:38:17there's also the book also recommends
0:38:20this thing about like qualities of the
0:38:21bottom which i think is a little bit of
0:38:22BS but I've just done it for the sake of
0:38:24completeness for now but the thing that
0:38:26I have done here is when i was writing
0:38:27out this job description
0:38:29I was specific about thinking about this
0:38:33in terms of where is this person going
0:38:37to receive work from and where they
0:38:38going to send it to and so I have I have
0:38:42a note in in the job description about
0:38:45how like when you are done with your job
0:38:48the next step is to send it to the
0:38:50distribution assistant like you know
0:38:52don't send it to me right I shouldn't be
0:38:54involved in this really like when the
0:38:56when the final exporting is done you
0:38:58send it to that person and then I've
0:39:00written up another job description which
0:39:02is for this distribution assistant right
0:39:05and then this is what they should do
0:39:06when they receive the final audio file
0:39:09from the audio editor so if you see what
0:39:12I mean like I am trying as hard as
0:39:14possible to build a thing where I touch
0:39:18it as little as possible
0:39:20this is really good i gotta say like I'm
0:39:23reading through these I mean you know I
0:39:25i want to spill the beans on it all
0:39:27because i'm assuming that this is to be
0:39:28kept private for the time being
0:39:31yeah but there's a lot of things in here
0:39:34about like you know making sure the show
0:39:36is is is kind of kept true to its point
0:39:39you know to be leaving the conversation
0:39:41between friends and basically the idea
0:39:43for the audio editor is to just tighten
0:39:46it up right taking out the arms take out
0:39:48the earth and and basically just master
0:39:51the show to make it but basically how it
0:39:54needs to be before it goes out the door
0:39:55yeah and then the idea as well is that
0:39:57for now i am doing this third edit but
0:40:01they can also do the final round of like
0:40:03okay I'm going to send you the ads and
0:40:05then this stuff can just be plopped in
0:40:07of like okay bleeps and bloops they go
0:40:09in at the appropriate spots here is the
0:40:10opening theme
0:40:11there's a whole other extra level of
0:40:13little stuff that I don't really need to
0:40:17do like I can have somebody else do it
0:40:19but again it was just so interesting
0:40:22realizing how much stuff my brain had
0:40:25filed under the category of not very
0:40:29much like even my own checklists you
0:40:31know I would have a line item which was
0:40:34like add transition sounds and export
0:40:36final version was like well actually
0:40:38that's quite a lot of steps you know for
0:40:40for the final part of the podcast like
0:40:42when you think about it like what is
0:40:43actually involved here how long this is
0:40:45actually take and also if you like me to
0:40:47checking that you didn't ruin anything
0:40:49by a dry nose right yeah choose the
0:40:51longest part right there love ya it's so
0:40:54easy to mess up at the last mile
0:40:57you're like oh I've definitely done that
0:40:59with the podcast sometimes like I'm just
0:41:01going to add this one quick thing and
0:41:02then the the people who listen right at
0:41:03the beginning send you message like you
0:41:06know there's a 10-minute section where
0:41:08the where there's like a fade-in and
0:41:09fade-out over the audio pickup and
0:41:11groups right let me quickly change that
0:41:15as as quickly as i can so this this is
0:41:19all my structure so far with again the
0:41:25smaller of my two projects trying to sit
0:41:27down and formalize and systematize how
0:41:31this works and and again it is really
0:41:33interesting
0:41:34that even though this who booked as
0:41:36listeners might have gathered from our
0:41:38initial description of it has a lot of
0:41:40just garbage in it i found this
0:41:43structure of this outline of how do you
0:41:45write a job description this for me was
0:41:48somehow like the missing piece that I
0:41:51needed to have in my brain about how do
0:41:53i make the org chart actionable how do I
0:41:57make this really serious and how do i
0:41:59how do i really think this through this
0:42:02is part of what i have been up to and i
0:42:05have taken on someone who is helping
0:42:08with the second edits and we are
0:42:11recording this episode on a thursday and
0:42:15friday tomorrow if everything goes right
0:42:18should be the first test of this little
0:42:23system of i have had an audio editor
0:42:26help me with two parts and also the
0:42:28first test of having my assistant act as
0:42:32the distribution assistant and do a lot
0:42:34of the public-facing sharing of it and
0:42:38uploading to the backend systems and all
0:42:40of that kind of stuff so it hasn't
0:42:42happened yet like the trigger hasn't
0:42:43been fully pulled but I am interested to
0:42:46see how this goes as the first run of a
0:42:49thing where i am trying to remove myself
0:42:51as much as possible the distribution
0:42:54assistant that job had already been
0:42:56filled by someone you already working
0:42:57with right you just basically gave more
0:43:01tasks to your personal assistant who
0:43:03you'd be vetted and worked with for
0:43:05years at this point exactly right like I
0:43:07wasn't bringing on anybody knew there
0:43:09that you did bring on somebody new for
0:43:11the audio editing and it's interesting
0:43:13because the the way that this person
0:43:15came to use is also grow up in the whole
0:43:17book when they're talking about finding
0:43:19people to hire one of the things they
0:43:21say is who do the people that you work
0:43:24with recommend exactly this person came
0:43:28to you from a recommendation from me
0:43:30exactly everywhere we were talking about
0:43:32this i was discussing how I wanted to
0:43:35bring someone to help hello internet
0:43:36this is before i came across the whole
0:43:38book and we were just kind of chatting
0:43:39and you literally said to me oh I think
0:43:42I might know exactly who you need
0:43:44click great but isn't that isn't that
0:43:47perfect so none of the jobs that are
0:43:49needed for the hello Internet
0:43:50Corporation have had to go out to open
0:43:53application right right so i think now
0:43:56we should turn our attention to gray
0:43:58industries right well that's why once
0:44:00again the hello internet thing was like
0:44:03this interesting test case where i was
0:44:06able to kind of play around with it so
0:44:09far things are going well but there is a
0:44:13very difficult thing that hasn't
0:44:15happened yet and that's the like the
0:44:17next stage of of scaling it up to the
0:44:21cgpgrey youtube channel so when you go
0:44:22to the big leagues
0:44:24it is when you go to the big leagues
0:44:27because it's like it is a process right
0:44:29where you may be learned some things
0:44:31from cortex and then you applied some of
0:44:33those things to hello internet and now
0:44:34you're able to apply some of those
0:44:36things to do to channel it's like a
0:44:38chain where you're able to test things
0:44:40out on smaller scales until you take
0:44:44what you've learned and apply that to
0:44:46the the the final yeah and this has been
0:44:49a very conscious process on my art so
0:44:51far like okay do this do this with hello
0:44:54internet that's also partly why i like
0:44:56tomorrow is going to be the test of a
0:44:59bunch of this stuff tomorrow when we're
0:45:00recording as it is and again like I'm
0:45:02sure there are things that i will
0:45:04realize in that process that then it's
0:45:06like ok do this before you do some of
0:45:09the big stuff with the youtube channel
0:45:11so you can try to avoid problems before
0:45:13they actually happen on the larger scale
0:45:16alright so we can talk a little bit
0:45:20about the the gray industries flow chart
0:45:23here for making a video and this is
0:45:28really interesting to break it out cuz
0:45:30we talked about this a little bit last
0:45:31time but it was very different sitting
0:45:33down and so i have i have my company
0:45:36listed out and then I am head of
0:45:38production of this company and then I
0:45:41was trying to divide that down into like
0:45:43what are all the possible roles and
0:45:45again kind of thinking like when we read
0:45:47creativity inc where they talk about you
0:45:48know this is the director and they're
0:45:49working with these these teams i was
0:45:52trying to think about ok what are all of
0:45:53the various roles that go into
0:45:56producing a video and imagining myself
0:45:59as like if i could only be the producer
0:46:01of this thing
0:46:03what are all the roles i need to hire
0:46:05and hits and it's just fun it's fun to
0:46:07kind of see it all written out where
0:46:08it's like okay there needs to be a
0:46:10researcher there needs to be a writer
0:46:12that needs to be an editor there's an
0:46:14illustrator there's an animator which
0:46:16are two separate jobs like we talked
0:46:17about last time his voice recording is
0:46:19audio editing and there's music
0:46:20production and again it was interesting
0:46:24to do this and realize like oh god I
0:46:25used to do all of this you know with the
0:46:29with the exception of the music i used
0:46:31to do all of this on my own so it's
0:46:34weird to think about how i used to fill
0:46:36all of these roles with the exception of
0:46:38music and now thinking about okay
0:46:41imagining these as individual jobs
0:46:46some of them i am still going to do
0:46:48obviously the writing and editing i'm
0:46:50still going to do obviously the voice
0:46:51recording i'm still going to do but now
0:46:55looking at it and thinking okay what is
0:46:57going to happen with the illustrator
0:47:00animator slot and just like with hello
0:47:03internet trying to formalize my thinking
0:47:06in a way of writing out a job
0:47:08description a little bit to think about
0:47:12what what is going to happen here
0:47:15like what what what needs to occur so I
0:47:17had an idea which I still haven't
0:47:20decided if this is like a brilliant idea
0:47:23or if this is a terrible idea
0:47:25great okay yep so I'm thinking about you
0:47:31need to bring on illustrator animator
0:47:33alright how do i need to do that what I
0:47:36ended up doing was I ended up thinking
0:47:38haha i'm going to write a little script
0:47:41something that's brief it's like 250
0:47:45words that is an announcement of the job
0:47:49and also the job application so I wrote
0:47:52a little supermini thing that's our
0:47:55social mores long love it as i can see a
0:47:58guy with us and the application is to
0:48:03animate the job application
0:48:06yes if you look in that folder that i
0:48:07gave you there's a folder which is
0:48:09called animation application
0:48:10uh-huh and now I'll keep in mind that at
0:48:13this stage is still very rough there's
0:48:15some things in there that i won't be
0:48:17having in the final one probably but I
0:48:19was just writing it out to think about
0:48:20like okay how long is this going to be
0:48:22what's it going to look like and this is
0:48:26my way of trying to solve a fundamental
0:48:29problem because what I'm looking for is
0:48:32like is a person who can reproduce my
0:48:34style and ideally if I can I want to
0:48:38find one person who can do both the
0:48:42asset creation both the illustration and
0:48:45who can also do the animation yep
0:48:47now normally I would think that was a
0:48:51pretty high bar because those are two
0:48:53totally unrelated fields but since my
0:48:57art style is so ridiculously simple i
0:49:01think that i could get lucky and find
0:49:03someone who can do both of them but i am
0:49:05open to the idea that like if this
0:49:07first-round doesn't work i might have to
0:49:09back up and say okay instead of looking
0:49:11for one person who can do both i'm going
0:49:14to look for two people who can work
0:49:16together so here's my thinking there's
0:49:18no reason why you can't find one person
0:49:19because you're one person it's there's
0:49:24gonna be people surely I do i do sort of
0:49:27disagree with that but I hope that
0:49:28you're right i could totally hope that
0:49:30you're right that there's one person who
0:49:31can do it
0:49:32I liked the script is funny I'm just
0:49:34like lost over and it's already funny
0:49:35stuff in there
0:49:36yeah up there there is some part of me
0:49:39which thinks this might be a terrible
0:49:41idea to do it this way but this to me
0:49:44they're like putting out some kind of
0:49:46call for work this this is the like
0:49:49scary new frontier that is the thing
0:49:53that makes it fundamentally different
0:49:54and i'm going to be pulling the trigger
0:49:57on this relatively soon hopefully maybe
0:50:00the day after this episode goes out like
0:50:02i kind of want to force myself into just
0:50:04going ahead and just doing this because
0:50:07i think i have done about as much
0:50:09preparation as I can reasonably expect
0:50:11of thinking through like what do I need
0:50:14and talking to a bunch of people and
0:50:17like I'm reaching the limit
0:50:19of free preparation before just seeing
0:50:21like put out an application
0:50:23see what you get back take it from there
0:50:26i think that's that's where this has to
0:50:28go next
0:50:28I'm really proud of you all thanks Mike
0:50:31I am I you you're doing it right you
0:50:33need to do this and it's scary difficult
0:50:36complicated thing but you do need to do
0:50:39it it's the time it's also it's it's a
0:50:42funny situation to be in because I i
0:50:44think i would actually feel a lot better
0:50:46about it if i was able to offer a full
0:50:48time job right but in some sense i am
0:50:50looking right now for someone who is a
0:50:52freelancer who can just work with me and
0:50:56like maybe over time that will
0:50:58transition into something more but I'm
0:50:59not in a position to be able to say like
0:51:01I generate enough work right now two day
0:51:04to fill 40 hours of animation work a
0:51:07week every week like I'm I'm nowhere
0:51:10near that and so that that's one of the
0:51:12things that in my mind makes this like a
0:51:13funny kind of thing to do it's it's a
0:51:16call for freelancers eat you know even
0:51:19more so more than like a straight-up job
0:51:22application and so that's that's why I
0:51:24do slightly wonder like I wonder how
0:51:26this is gonna go but that's also why I
0:51:28just have to move forward and I just
0:51:30have to do this and just get it out
0:51:31there you got interview people because
0:51:34you can't get everything you need to
0:51:36know from work
0:51:38mm there's more than just what somebody
0:51:41can display to you from their work
0:51:44yeah but something like this i think the
0:51:48vast majority is the work but there are
0:51:51these so-called soft skills right mr.
0:51:53things like communication timeliness
0:51:56working back and forth you know that
0:51:59that kind of thing is is tricky and it
0:52:04does mean that needs to be some kind of
0:52:07interview a little bit that's where the
0:52:12book who was way less useful than
0:52:14anything else
0:52:15thank you may have it has at the end of
0:52:17it this hilarious scheduled for an
0:52:20eight-hour day of interviewing a single
0:52:22person
0:52:22yeah I did wonder if you going to take
0:52:24much of the top grading interview method
0:52:28consideration in I was like what does he
0:52:31do english but this is while actually
0:52:34the funny thing is the part i skip the
0:52:36most of what he created a job
0:52:38description part who and I listened to
0:52:40them the three hours of interview
0:52:41practice
0:52:43yeah this is is one of these cases where
0:52:46there comes a moment in the book where
0:52:48you realize who this book is exactly
0:52:50written for and the answer is we want to
0:52:53sell you on our services to help you
0:52:55find a new CEO for your multi-million
0:52:57dollar company right like yeah here's an
0:53:00interview process that no one in the
0:53:03world would go through unless there was
0:53:07a CEO position on the other side so i
0:53:10found that less than helpful although I
0:53:12do have to admit in terms of of soft
0:53:14skills again like people skills have
0:53:16never been shall we say my core
0:53:18competency which makes the whole idea of
0:53:21trying to hire people like an
0:53:23interesting sociological challenge but
0:53:25they're there were they were some kind
0:53:27of little tips in the end of the book
0:53:29which I picked up on of like okay that's
0:53:31a good idea
0:53:32the funny thing is i would think you
0:53:34would need to interview people for the
0:53:36inverse reason
0:53:37what do you mean you need to interview
0:53:39people to make sure that they can cope
0:53:41with your lack of people skills
0:53:43well yeah you know what Mike you might
0:53:47have a point there
0:53:48it's a reverse interview how would you
0:53:50describe working with me Mike to the
0:53:52people working with gray is is very
0:53:55interesting in so much is that you will
0:54:00have things that need to be done but you
0:54:05also need to understand that they will
0:54:07get done on a undefined schedule that
0:54:14you will have to accept so this is you
0:54:17working with me
0:54:17yes so i will have things I need to be
0:54:20done and I need to sometimes realize
0:54:22that I just have to let go of what i
0:54:24think is the time that is going to get
0:54:26done in MH because it needs to fit
0:54:28around your schedule which you are a lot
0:54:29more protective of who also go ahead
0:54:33Mike it's okay i'm trying to think of
0:54:35what else to say I'm not listening
0:54:37you also need to understand that your
0:54:40ideas
0:54:41maybe vetoed mm and once they are they
0:54:46are did app you're not difficult to work
0:54:51with once you understand the parameters
0:54:53like once people understand that you are
0:54:56difficult to get hold of but you will
0:54:58respond eventually
0:55:00mhm and you don't care for schedules
0:55:03like they will just work around the
0:55:06shows that you need to put into place
0:55:07for your own business and that you can
0:55:11just be very to-the-point and and cut
0:55:15with your responses most people can't
0:55:18understand that then you're very
0:55:20reasonable to work with i think but you
0:55:23need to understand it comes with the
0:55:25parameters that you did the others
0:55:28basically if you can't cope with that
0:55:30like if you can't work that way they
0:55:33can't someone can't work with you
0:55:34because you're not going to change that
0:55:36I don't think at least not very much
0:55:38because that's just how you are
0:55:39mm-hmm
0:55:42so applicant out there that's something
0:55:47that you need to understand and this
0:55:50also actually brings me to a point that
0:55:52I wanted to make to which i think is so
0:55:54important but i don't think that you'll
0:55:55feel it that way so i need to stress it
0:55:57to you ok if you interview someone you
0:56:00cannot interview them on your own you
0:56:02have to have somebody else observing the
0:56:05interview and this comes from my own
0:56:07experience of hiring people great i
0:56:09don't know if you knew that I had this
0:56:10experience but i have hired many people
0:56:13who and i have been in the room for many
0:56:16other people being hired and you have to
0:56:18have somebody there because you need to
0:56:20have somebody to talk to about what just
0:56:22occurred who because I observer to an
0:56:26interview will see things that you will
0:56:29not see because you're busy dealing with
0:56:31the interview and once the interview is
0:56:34done you have nobody to discuss it with
0:56:36at all so I thoroughly recommend that
0:56:39you have if you do conduct any
0:56:41interviews that you have somebody
0:56:43present in that interview process that
0:56:46is not the interviewee and you have to
0:56:48say that is that is a great idea you
0:56:51should write a book on hiring people who
0:56:52have been wasn't mentioned in this book
0:56:54at all
0:56:55and that's a fantastic idea that the the
0:56:57a method for higher includes 75,000
0:57:01people who are involved in the interview
0:57:03process across 16 different steps which
0:57:05will last seven hours so what they
0:57:08didn't mention that part
0:57:10can I mention one thing from that book
0:57:13that I actually do think was very good
0:57:14and I think it's something you need to
0:57:15consider my the interview process is
0:57:17important please do
0:57:19there's one quote that I really liked
0:57:20like a heart donor and recipient there
0:57:22has to be a match but this is between
0:57:25the culture and the fit of the company
0:57:27or the body of the recipient will reject
0:57:29the organ it's a very strong metaphor
0:57:32but a good one
0:57:33mm I've worked in many teams where
0:57:35somebody has joined the team or new
0:57:37bosses come into play and they don't fit
0:57:40and it destroys everything it just sucks
0:57:43all of the good out of the team and so I
0:57:46think that is a very good point and
0:57:48something always worth considering if
0:57:49this person doesn't seem like they're
0:57:51going to fit the company culture they
0:57:54will destroy everything in the company
0:57:56without meaning to
0:57:57I've seen it happen many many times
0:58:00yeah so actually let's let some just for
0:58:02a moment as i'm not sure we've been
0:58:04super explicit about it but this outline
0:58:06for how to produce a job description and
0:58:09it has these three parts that has the
0:58:11the mission the brief description as the
0:58:13outcomes like here are the deliverables
0:58:15here is a a clear yes know the person
0:58:19did or did not do this kind of list
0:58:21which I really like what really
0:58:22clarifies thinking and at the bottom it
0:58:26it has it has these these qualities of
0:58:30the person and I really when I was
0:58:36reading it I thought I really do think
0:58:37this is kind of BS but the author did
0:58:40convince me through the reading that the
0:58:44the purpose of this is like what you
0:58:45said it is to clarify in your own mind
0:58:49like what do you need from person and
0:58:52and also again to get it down on paper
0:58:54like this is what you're looking for in
0:58:56someone and what I really liked is that
0:58:59you know they're talking about you want
0:59:01to kind of limited to like five at the
0:59:04most qualities that the person has and
0:59:06also to be ranking them in
0:59:08order of importance and so it's it
0:59:11forces you to formalize something and so
0:59:14forth like for example in the
0:59:15description that I wrote for that the
0:59:16hello Internet editor it made me
0:59:20formalize like listen quality of the
0:59:24product matters more to me than the
0:59:28timeliness of it right and and it's like
0:59:32I think that's an important thing to get
0:59:34down on on paper and I think that like
0:59:37maybe that that goes towards helping
0:59:39ensure that there's a match between the
0:59:42person doing the job and and like what i
0:59:44am looking for like that we're both
0:59:46working together that like here is a
0:59:48formalization of what is important to me
0:59:51like is this is this important to you
0:59:53like if you would give you what you're
0:59:55looking for is to always have a
0:59:57guaranteed number of hours at a specific
0:59:57guaranteed number of hours at a specific
1:00:00time of work like well that's actually
1:00:02at the bottom of the list of the things
1:00:03that I want like if if the thing is
1:00:05going to take a while but it will be
1:00:07significantly better like I want that to
1:00:10happen but that can mean like oh maybe
1:00:12sometimes some shows take a huge amount
1:00:14of time to edit in an unexpected manner
1:00:16again I'm still just all new to this
1:00:19like this is me having this theoretical
1:00:20discussion as a self-employed person at
1:00:23the very beginning stages of trying to
1:00:26formally take on more people to help but
1:00:28i thought like okay this this is a thing
1:00:29worth trying to write out at least
1:00:32trying to think about much more than i
1:00:34would have before like think about the
1:00:36fit between you and this other person
1:00:40but it seemed that the other part of
1:00:42this the more important part is it's not
1:00:44just between you and the person because
1:00:46in the system that you're looking to
1:00:48establish you will be having people
1:00:51talking to each other without you being
1:00:52involved right yes and that's where it's
1:00:55much more of a thing you need to
1:00:57consider because when it's employer and
1:01:00employee does the situation is going to
1:01:02be very different
1:01:04there's going to be more in but respect
1:01:05because you're writing the checks then
1:01:07you have people talking to each other
1:01:09and having to work together and share
1:01:12information between each other and rely
1:01:13on each other when you will be hopefully
1:01:15out of the equation so that's another
1:01:18part of the quality part in knowing that
1:01:20you believe that these two people will
1:01:23be able to work together like if you if
1:01:26you find somebody who fits your style
1:01:29right your kind of people skills
1:01:34thanks thanks for the big five a
1:01:38powerful learning the word and you think
1:01:40to yourself this person is just like me
1:01:43they will be able to work in the same
1:01:46way that I can
1:01:47that means I might not be able to work
1:01:48together very well another person
1:01:50mm so that the other i think i would
1:01:53feel that you maybe need to go over
1:01:55these qualities too little bit more blue
1:01:57too because York the qualities that you
1:02:00have picked out currently are very
1:02:03functional so you have security
1:02:06attention to detail and timeliness Lou
1:02:08they're not really qualities of a person
1:02:10the qualities of the work that they're
1:02:12doing
1:02:13and I feel like you maybe need to flesh
1:02:16that out with some more flowery stuff
1:02:19yeah but it would like what flowery
1:02:21stuff Mike what do you think I think
1:02:22that it's an easy one but just having in
1:02:25there that somebody needs to have good
1:02:27interpersonal skills who and it is a
1:02:30good communicator who you just need to
1:02:33put those in there so if you talk to
1:02:35somebody and feel that they're not you
1:02:38can point to the job description and say
1:02:39I don't feel like you meet this this
1:02:41role because of this
1:02:42hmm let's say for example you find
1:02:45somebody who has never worked with other
1:02:48ppl has always been self-employed and
1:02:51what's on their own stuff they might not
1:02:54be necessary the best fit because they
1:02:57don't know how to delegate or how to
1:02:59cooperate and work with somebody else
1:03:02mm but you're going to need especially
1:03:05hopefully as this grows and you take two
1:03:07less unless you will have a team of
1:03:09people and unfortunately my friend with
1:03:11that comes HR problems you will need to
1:03:14solve so you want to try and minimize
1:03:16the amount of those that you have to
1:03:19trust me on this great mr. see that look
1:03:21like how can there be HR problems if
1:03:24these people are just distributed all
1:03:26over the world like I'm not going to
1:03:27have an office anywhere rightly this is
1:03:29all just people wherever in the world or
1:03:32not we're not coming together
1:03:33surely if your 100% distributed company
1:03:36you can't possibly have an HR problems
1:03:38finally enough that can actually make
1:03:41things worse
1:03:41hmm because these people will only ever
1:03:44interact with each other over text
1:03:46who and that is where all the emotion is
1:03:48lost
1:03:49haha interesting point people skills and
1:03:53communication skills must be added into
1:03:55this you'll know whether somebody has
1:03:58these things but if somebody looks at
1:04:00this application and thinks great i can
1:04:02continue being a hermit
1:04:04it's not the job for them who I think
1:04:07you may have a good point there Mike I
1:04:09think you have a good point there
1:04:10I want to manage team of 10 people who I
1:04:14have a lot of experience in the way that
1:04:16these things can go horribly wrong
1:04:17I was 21 years old
1:04:20it was a nightmare I'm sorry Mike you at
1:04:26times over now it is long long gone
1:04:29I'm glad to hear that genuine I'm really
1:04:31happy that you're looking at this I'm
1:04:32really pleased that you give clearly
1:04:34taking this is quite far in the last
1:04:36couple of weeks
1:04:37yeah yeah i was i was honestly actually
1:04:39hoping to have this kind of live and and
1:04:42and done for this show I was actually
1:04:46thinking of surprising you and having a
1:04:48my job announcement go up this morning I
1:04:51feel like I will talk about it now but
1:04:53that didn't work out because I'm taking
1:04:54this so seriously that I actually again
1:04:57in terms of like a look I'm an actual
1:04:59CEO now I scheduled a a business trip to
1:05:03a colleague on the continent to schedule
1:05:06a hole in person meeting to talk about
1:05:08hiring well I seen this person has a
1:05:10teen
1:05:11yeah it's a friend and associate who has
1:05:13gone through a lot of hiring in a
1:05:15similar field as like can we get
1:05:17together and talk about a thing like can
1:05:20we talk about hiring can we talk about
1:05:22what you've gone through like how you
1:05:23did it
1:05:24problems that you had and so I hate you
1:05:27know i don't i don't like traveling I
1:05:28don't like doing this kind of stuff I
1:05:30really don't like taking a bunch of time
1:05:32at my schedule and this ended up being
1:05:33like a day-and-a-half basically but but
1:05:36that was one of the things like now this
1:05:38is I'm going to do this right now i am
1:05:40able to get in touch with this person
1:05:42i'm able to do this thing so flew out
1:05:44like we had a long meeting we talked a
1:05:46whole bunch of stuff about hiring and it
1:05:48was you know it's just great to get
1:05:49another perspective from another person
1:05:52about something they had they had gone
1:05:53through so i am taking this very
1:05:55seriously and but that was partly why
1:05:58like oh I wasn't quite ready to surprise
1:06:00you with my job application today Mike
1:06:03but yeah it's a thing that I've been
1:06:06thinking a lot about and I think I'm
1:06:09after maybe I add a few more soft skills
1:06:11in my application and and just do a
1:06:14couple more drafts of it and get it
1:06:15really nail down that it will be
1:06:16something that I have
1:06:17relatively shortly and we'll see how it
1:06:19goes as far as the show goes this is
1:06:21better for me because now we get to talk
1:06:23about it before and after
1:06:25oh yeah we're going to topics it all
1:06:27makes and one baby and i have a couple
1:06:30of points and questions for you before
1:06:31we get off this topic though please go
1:06:33ahead and doesn't matter to you whether
1:06:35this person is in the world
1:06:37no not at all why because the only way
1:06:39would matter is if they were here if
1:06:42they give their already not in London
1:06:43then it doesn't matter where they are i
1:06:46got i would have preference for someone
1:06:48who was on the east coast of America
1:06:52simply because that time exchange works
1:06:54really well but as long as the person is
1:06:56able to talk to me in the afternoons
1:06:59like then I I don't really care where
1:07:01they live
1:07:02okay so you just you just need to have
1:07:05some overlap of time
1:07:07basically yeah it needs to be there
1:07:08needs to be some overlap of of the time
1:07:12have you considered how any of your
1:07:14attitudes or approaches to work might
1:07:17have to change if you have people
1:07:18working for you because these people are
1:07:22going to be freelances in theory right
1:07:24at least at the very start they're going
1:07:25to be freelancers ideally again i don't
1:07:29know if this will work out but ideally I
1:07:31would like to be able to transition this
1:07:34into at least part-time like hopefully
1:07:37part of what's happening here is that as
1:07:39i free up more and more of my time that
1:07:41it's a virtuous cycle where I actually
1:07:43have more things for them to do and so
1:07:45can transition this into like oh this is
1:07:47AE part-time job or three-quarters time
1:07:50job but i would like to do that
1:07:51eventually I don't know if that will
1:07:53work but at least at the start yes
1:07:56they're they're going to be freelancers
1:07:58is the way this works I think the
1:08:00biggest thing that i have seen when I've
1:08:02tried to structure some of this stuff
1:08:03out is is a thought about how quick is
1:08:06the turnaround and so one of the things
1:08:08I did when I was thinking about the
1:08:10hello Internet podcast was I wrote out
1:08:13that kind of little day by day of what
1:08:18would be the most optimistic turnaround
1:08:21time if I'm working with two other
1:08:23people to get this done
1:08:24someone who's doing the audio and
1:08:25someone who's doing the distribution and
1:08:27I realized immediately like okay
1:08:29in theory nor
1:08:31Emily if I record a podcast if I'm doing
1:08:34everything I can turn that around in
1:08:37three days if I really need to like that
1:08:39three actual working days but then when
1:08:42I write out how this schedule looks
1:08:44working with other people it's like ok
1:08:45at at absolute minimum it's a week
1:08:49turnaround considering like okay well
1:08:52there's weekends where people won't work
1:08:53and then you know the transition time
1:08:55between this person and that person
1:08:56getting things over and so like that was
1:08:59an interesting thing to do and I did try
1:09:01to sketch out something very similar for
1:09:04if i'm working with someone for
1:09:06animation what does this look like and
1:09:09that was also like oh ok
1:09:12it can take a video production from you
1:09:15know in theory i can produce a video in
1:09:19like five weeks if I'm really like all
1:09:24in on a video start to finish you know
1:09:27it rarely doesn't it rarely works that
1:09:29well because working multiple things at
1:09:30once but like in theory i could do it in
1:09:32five weeks and then again just writing
1:09:34out like how might this work with other
1:09:36people it's like our at bare minimum
1:09:38it's going to be like eight weeks start
1:09:40to finish on a single thing you know
1:09:42including going back and forth between
1:09:44that person and like storyboarding and
1:09:46leaving in time for changes and
1:09:48corrections and then distribution and
1:09:49all the rest of that so I think that's
1:09:51probably the biggest shift in focus but
1:09:55I don't think that's necessarily a bad
1:09:57thing it's just a change in focus and
1:10:01like accepting that idea i think is fine
1:10:04like I'm I'm totally fine doing that
1:10:06right now I get quite impatient when
1:10:08things are ready to go up like I want
1:10:09them to go up as soon as possible which
1:10:11connects into the very fact like why I
1:10:13can't stop myself from constantly
1:10:14animating is because of a certain amount
1:10:16of impatience but I think if I just know
1:10:18okay somebody else is doing this I can
1:10:20shift my mind on that topic and just go
1:10:24into a different mode
1:10:26alright for 1 i'm very happy that this
1:10:27is happening because i have weeks of
1:10:29content for the show now we have just
1:10:32weeks and weeks of content
1:10:35this is great i'm so pleased to do this
1:10:37now
1:10:38oh yeah this works well for you yeah it
1:10:41really does i wanted to just around this
1:10:44out i want to give one last point from
1:10:46the new method for hiring book with you
1:10:49forever just points out who this book is
1:10:51written for blue one point that the
1:10:54author's talking about interviewing
1:10:56people and trying to understand for the
1:10:58multiple process the way that they've
1:11:00been in the past to try to see how they
1:11:02might be in the future and this is the
1:11:04quote people don't change that much
1:11:06people aren't mutual funds that's who
1:11:08this book is written for people that
1:11:10like that joke everybody else just wants
1:11:14to vomit at that boy that reminds me of
1:11:18I think my favorite thing in getting
1:11:21things done which get the book I
1:11:23recommend but it has a certain kind of
1:11:24language problem is there's there's one
1:11:26point in the book where David Allen
1:11:28tries to come up with like a theoretical
1:11:30list of projects that you might want to
1:11:31do and he has on their things like work
1:11:34in my orchard right if it's like you
1:11:38know it's like okay I know you're out in
1:11:39ojai california right and like this is
1:11:41this is just the natural thing but there
1:11:43are a few things on there which are just
1:11:45totally here are incredibly well-to-do
1:11:50CEO problem because they're not but i
1:11:52can just imagine David Allen sitting
1:11:54down and thinking like let me imagine a
1:11:56list of of projects right when one of
1:11:57them is like oh how's my winery doing
1:12:01they also recommend that when somebody
1:12:04accept the job offer you send them what
1:12:06they call a meaningful gift and one of
1:12:09those meaningful gifts consists of
1:12:10flowers balloons or a gift certificate
1:12:14don't think I meaningful I think they're
1:12:17pretty meaning less my gift certificate
1:12:20by your own gift I don't even care
1:12:22yeah yeah that's good for me yeah that
1:12:27was that was pretty bad
1:12:28I'll just a couple of my own points from
1:12:31this book since we will almost certainly
1:12:32never touch it again ever had it because
1:12:36my didn't like it hated one of the
1:12:38things one of the things that the the
1:12:40book highlighted in a few points and
1:12:42then i can say i have i have heard from
1:12:44people in different areas is this idea
1:12:49of don't hire the generalist higher this
1:12:52specialist that it's it's super tempting
1:12:55to try to hire a person who seems like
1:12:57they can do absolutely everything but
1:13:00that you should try to hire a
1:13:01specialized person instead I think
1:13:04interestingly was actually connects back
1:13:06to the e-myth where was he talking about
1:13:08like hiring a hairy or whatever like you
1:13:10just have one guy who ends up doing
1:13:11everything yeah and then he hides all
1:13:13the problems and relationship business
1:13:14and everybody does
1:13:16right that's what happens in the yeah
1:13:17that's precisely how it goes
1:13:19so I like I thought that was an
1:13:20interesting point and that's one of the
1:13:21reasons why there's still this asterisk
1:13:23in my mind is like trying to find
1:13:24someone who can do the illustration and
1:13:25the animation maybe there's two people
1:13:27maybe it's not but I thought that was a
1:13:28good point and I've heard it echoed from
1:13:30elsewhere that is hiring a the person
1:13:32who's good at a lot of things ends up
1:13:33being not a great idea let's schedule
1:13:37look just quickly going through my list
1:13:39here actually looking through my notes I
1:13:43think even though we barely talked about
1:13:45the book we have extracted all of the
1:13:49value from it is unsurprising good yep
1:13:54next topic today show is also very
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1:15:43we laugh and the saga of OmniFocus
1:15:46continues is it a saga is a saga is that
1:15:50the right word Mike what is a saga know
1:15:53this sounds really serious let's find
1:15:54out let's define saga a long story of
1:15:58heroic achievement especially a medieval
1:16:00pros or a long involved story account or
1:16:04series of events this is a saga okay
1:16:07yeah I very detailed and it's been over
1:16:09three Episode six weeks here of of only
1:16:12focus here okay so definitely a saga so
1:16:16now OmniFocus for iOS has been released
1:16:20with the automation scripting engine I
1:16:24guess we'd call it bill in that we spoke
1:16:26about last time so it's now out in the
1:16:28world you have also put out a video
1:16:30which means you've now had the time to
1:16:33play around with this is um so I I and
1:16:37everybody else listening I'm sure is
1:16:39very interested to know your thoughts
1:16:41about the only focus scripting and if
1:16:44it's working for you or if you even
1:16:46tried it
1:16:46so this came at a very fortuitous time
1:16:52for me which is which is actually
1:16:53connected to a bunch of the stuff we
1:16:55were talking about earlier in the show
1:16:56about formalizing and systematizing the
1:16:58business because i really like whenever
1:17:03i can do a thing that serves multiple
1:17:07purposes and so while I was writing out
1:17:11those flowcharts of what does my
1:17:13business look like and while I was
1:17:14writing out the job descriptions for
1:17:16what am I trying to hire I was all
1:17:19so working out at the same time let me
1:17:22do in-depth checklists of every stage of
1:17:28everything and a look this is afraid of
1:17:32everything
1:17:33yeah but this is a perfect time to try
1:17:37out many focuses new scripting
1:17:41templating system so i thought like this
1:17:45is this is this is this is just great i
1:17:47love it when things serve multiple
1:17:49purposes it's like okay I'm trying this
1:17:51thing out and i'm also sort of working
1:17:53on the business at the same time and it
1:17:55serves multiple purposes and it was like
1:17:57having OmniFocus come out with this at
1:17:59the time that they did was just
1:18:00absolutely perfect because it wasn't an
1:18:02in-depth reworking from the ground up of
1:18:06a lot of my checklists trying it out
1:18:09with a new system and the simple verdict
1:18:12for people who just want to know the end
1:18:14of the saga is that their new system is
1:18:18fantastic it's it's absolutely fantastic
1:18:21i have to say it is not only is it
1:18:26everything that I could have possibly
1:18:29ask for
1:18:31Wow in an automation system it is more
1:18:35than I would have thought to ask for
1:18:39like the the way that they have done
1:18:41this is like maximum power combined with
1:18:46maximum flexibility in a way that would
1:18:49never have occurred to me
1:18:51can you explain why so this is going to
1:18:53get a little this is going to get a
1:18:54little technical we're going to get
1:18:55nutty here we're going we're going to
1:18:57get a little nerdy and here I'll show
1:18:59you Mike something i'll send you because
1:19:02let me just say yeah
1:19:03as it stands right now I can't
1:19:05understand how to do this because that
1:19:08you know people have tried to explain it
1:19:10to me and I can kind of groc what's
1:19:12happening but I can't get it to do what
1:19:16it's supposed to do so what but what I
1:19:18know is that now it's out in the world
1:19:20there are going to be more tools are
1:19:22coming out there are more example
1:19:23scripts i know that the workflow app
1:19:25guys are working on specific OmniFocus
1:19:28actions and I feel that once they come
1:19:30out
1:19:31I'll be able to really kind of do this
1:19:33in my own way but as it stands right now
1:19:35like you just sent me a thing and I
1:19:38cannot understand how you would get to
1:19:43this point by looking at it i have sent
1:19:45you a text file with a hundred and fifty
1:19:47five lines of the template that i made
1:19:51that is
1:19:53hello Internet podcast from start to
1:19:54finish this template references other
1:19:57sub templates which are tasks for other
1:19:59people so this is not the full process
1:20:01while this is things in this list part
1:20:04of the process
1:20:05there's like things I would never even
1:20:07bother checking boot right but this is
1:20:11why i wanted to test out this this whole
1:20:14thing so the way they have done this is
1:20:16is super clever so last time we
1:20:18discussed just very briefly because i
1:20:20had only looked at it that Omni focus is
1:20:23now working in this way so that they're
1:20:26there templating system can understand
1:20:29task paper so if you if you do something
1:20:33like you copy a project in OmniFocus and
1:20:37go to paste it in a note it won't just
1:20:40paste like the words that you have
1:20:42written it pasted it out in this task
1:20:45paper format that makes more sense to me
1:20:48they're writing it out ok ok so you
1:20:52could set up the project and then raced
1:20:54in and I bet once that's in there is a
1:20:57lot easier to understand like the thing
1:20:59that was so confusing to me was like
1:21:00imagining trying to write it out like
1:21:03that just didn't make sense yes so i
1:21:06wanted to mention that because i think
1:21:07that is almost a hidden feature that is
1:21:11super key for people who are unfamiliar
1:21:13with this now i am comfortable enough
1:21:16with very basic scripting that i have
1:21:19written it all out like I didn't do the
1:21:21copy/paste thing but I think for anyone
1:21:23who wants to get started with this you
1:21:25can do the thing of like create in
1:21:29OmniFocus the thing that you want to
1:21:31replicate copy paste it into a text file
1:21:35and it will spit out the format of how
1:21:38it's supposed to look and then you can
1:21:40see like oh okay I get what's going on
1:21:44here you don't have to just write it
1:21:45from scratch so ultimately what you're
1:21:47doing is you're creating a bunch of
1:21:49tasks can only focus about due dates on
1:21:52them so you don't see them right and
1:21:56then you invoke the script which we'll
1:21:58talk about in a bit and then you add all
1:21:59the dates to them and then you start to
1:22:01see them again because they show up in
1:22:03your dreams
1:22:04yes that is that is what is occurring so
1:22:06here are the things that I really like
1:22:09about this because with with any kind of
1:22:12automation in iOS it's very often that
1:22:15apps have some automation but you don't
1:22:20have access to everything and as far as
1:22:25i can tell Army has made it possible for
1:22:28you to specify everything about a task
1:22:32or project that you could specify
1:22:35manually on the desktop app so many
1:22:38systems if they did automation they
1:22:40would allow you to do something
1:22:41relatively simple like specify the title
1:22:43and specify a due date you know when and
1:22:46maybe like a sub-project status or
1:22:48something but with OmniFocus is like
1:22:49okay by writing it this out in task
1:22:52paper you can specify title the the
1:22:55sub-project it belongs to the context
1:22:57the estimated time the deferred date the
1:23:00due date you can specify repeat not just
1:23:03simple repeat but very complicated
1:23:05structures of repeating you can fill in
1:23:07the notes and there's a there's an
1:23:09almost hidden feature of OmniFocus which
1:23:11I totally love which is this thing
1:23:12called autocomplete which is whether or
1:23:15not a sub-project will complete itself
1:23:18automatically when all of the various
1:23:20boxes have been ticked which is a minor
1:23:22thing but is super useful out depending
1:23:26on the way you're setting up on me focus
1:23:27so like everything that you could do
1:23:31oh yeah like flag state like I can't
1:23:33even think of all the things that you
1:23:34can specify but it is all in there so as
1:23:37far as I can tell there is nothing that
1:23:41you could theoretically manually set up
1:23:44in the OmniFocus app that you cannot
1:23:46also specify with task paper it's it's
1:23:49everything and i find that is a very
1:23:52rare thing to find in in automation so
1:23:56that is just fantastic and they've been
1:23:59really great about being able to do all
1:24:02kinds of weird stuff with variable so
1:24:04like what you've what you've seen in my
1:24:06own template is I like to specify the a
1:24:10due date which is the date that say a
1:24:12video or podcast is going up but then
1:24:15you can also modify those variables so
1:24:18you can say like oh this part of the
1:24:20project is due on the due date minus
1:24:24seven days right for this part of the
1:24:27project like here's the weird stuff that
1:24:28sometimes people don't think about like
1:24:30this part of the project is due x days
1:24:32after the main project is actually do
1:24:36right and it can it can handle this kind
1:24:38of weird formatting of I want to do with
1:24:40thing that is outside the the expected
1:24:42range because I could manually do that
1:24:44in OmniFocus and you can specify all of
1:24:46these things so this this task paper
1:24:50format alone is is fantastic like it is
1:24:54absolutely everything that I could
1:24:56possibly ask for
1:24:57but the thing that is kind of genius
1:25:00about doing it this way that this allows
1:25:04other people to build even more complex
1:25:09things on top of it so you can for
1:25:12example if you wanted to write your own
1:25:15little program that could in theory ask
1:25:18you a bunch of if-then-else questions
1:25:21about a project and then just spit out a
1:25:25task paper template that depended on
1:25:28those if-then-else questions that is
1:25:30incredibly powerful so it it doesn't
1:25:34just mean like oh you can use our
1:25:36automation system
1:25:38it means that you can almost
1:25:41build-your-own automation system on top
1:25:44of this to then spit out a thing which
1:25:46can talk to me focus and so it's really
1:25:49interesting i've been talking to some
1:25:51people who have also been playing around
1:25:52with this and realizing like man i know
1:25:54i have i have complicated things but I
1:25:57know other people who are real computer
1:26:00programmers like oh man i can write a
1:26:02thing that just auto generate all the
1:26:05tasks i need for the rest of the year
1:26:07right like okay that is a level above
1:26:09even
1:26:10I'm doing and and the system can just
1:26:12like take that and accept that and
1:26:15create a project that is that is built
1:26:17on top of this it's it's just fantastic
1:26:19it really is i have to say i am i am
1:26:22more impressed than i had any reason to
1:26:27expect to be so i am i'm thrilled and it
1:26:32couldn't have come at a better time
1:26:33either
1:26:34so you're sticking with to do for now
1:26:37though right
1:26:38sorry to do haha yeah i'm i'm some I'm
1:26:43sorry too i have to say it you know it's
1:26:45a funny thing is i was using to do for
1:26:47animal it was a couple of months maybe
1:26:50close to three months and I don't know
1:26:52exactly how long and so I am i am back
1:26:55with OmniFocus and as as i discussed in
1:26:57in the red at last time like ultimately
1:26:59this is kind of what I wanted like
1:27:00OmniFocus was a lot closer to the way I
1:27:04worked naturally then to do was it was
1:27:06just that automation was becoming a deal
1:27:08breaking feature for me so that's why I
1:27:10moved to do and the funny thing was as
1:27:12we discussed on the episode before this
1:27:13occurred you expected that all that to
1:27:17do would be more likely to add the
1:27:19features that you wanted then only would
1:27:21little did we know right yeah little did
1:27:23we know there's there's something
1:27:24secretly brewing and in the back right
1:27:27now I thought like maybe i can i can
1:27:29bully and harass the loan to do tell
1:27:31just like to bend his appt towards my
1:27:34will right which of course is crazy this
1:27:36is why we need to talk about your hiring
1:27:38processes for this is that not how this
1:27:41works
1:27:41yeah that's what we were doing ok i was
1:27:43i'm not exactly sure about that it's
1:27:45gonna look out for the job application
1:27:48coming soon right qualities bendable but
1:27:52I do i do have to say that that like to
1:27:54do is still a very interesting app I can
1:27:56still definitely recommended under some
1:27:57circumstances and i have to say like to
1:28:01do has some clever things that I still
1:28:03haven't quite been able to break my
1:28:04habits of having switched back
1:28:06Tommy focus like to do has a fantastic
1:28:09feature for bulk editing tasks which is
1:28:13the thing that I honestly think any iOS
1:28:16developer who is working on anything
1:28:20where you might want to edit multiple
1:28:23items that one
1:28:24and should take a look at the way to do
1:28:25handles it they just have a fantastic
1:28:27really simple way to like bulk edit
1:28:30things which is oak which is always a
1:28:32real problem on iOS like iOS like loves
1:28:36you to do things eventually but the the
1:28:38guy writing to do really really nailed
1:28:40solving that problem and so that's great
1:28:43so I do i do miss that now with
1:28:44OmniFocus and the other thing that I
1:28:47really love with to do with there's a
1:28:48way where you can long press on a task
1:28:52and it brings up a little menu of just
1:28:54like quick button options for one of the
1:28:56most likely things that you want to do
1:28:58with this do you want to defer this for
1:28:59a day do you just want to delete it you
1:29:01want to do a couple of other things like
1:29:03i still find myself long pressing on
1:29:05OmniFocus tasks and thinking I wasn't
1:29:07working
1:29:08I'm i will eventually i will eventually
1:29:11lose those so to do definitely has some
1:29:13clever features you know about something
1:29:15as a full such action from your focus
1:29:17for that stuff right
1:29:18yeah we'll look that's we'll talk about
1:29:20that another time right but it's cause
1:29:21it's like i'm using on the ipad and
1:29:23stuff ah so it's not it's not super
1:29:25useful to me but like I've said before
1:29:27with to-do apps there's this infinite
1:29:30demand for them because everybody has
1:29:32their own picky ways of working and this
1:29:36is a case where I am very happy to be
1:29:39back with OmniFocus because they're
1:29:43their core competency of just show me
1:29:48the things that are available to me
1:29:51right now to do that has always really
1:29:56suited the way that I work and so I feel
1:29:59like quite naturally my mind aligns with
1:30:02OmniFocus the most and so now i'm i'm
1:30:05just super thrilled that the one
1:30:07deal-breaking feature has has now been
1:30:10removed and I can just go back to all of
1:30:12my normal like little little annoyances
1:30:15and complaints with an app like you have
1:30:16for absolutely anything but i'm just i'm
1:30:18absolutely i'm absolutely thrilled to be
1:30:20back
1:30:21I love having a nap with dark mode
1:30:23especially for something i use as often
1:30:24as my to-do manager so yeah it's I gotta
1:30:28say like super congratulations to the
1:30:31OmniFocus team like this is this is a
1:30:33really impressive way too
1:30:36solve a difficult problem and also give
1:30:41other people the ability to to build
1:30:44their own solutions on top of this in
1:30:47case they need more
1:30:58this is only the purple like