0:00:00good afternoon mr. UK tech 100 i saw on
0:00:06Twitter that you are the 67 coolest UK
0:00:11tech person is that is that was take
0:00:13away from this article that mentions you
0:00:15in Business Insider s60 service the
0:00:18clothes number what is this what is this
0:00:19thing as of right now I'm not a hundred
0:00:22essential i know i received an invite to
0:00:26a party which I'm going to this evening
0:00:28that business insider are hosting a VIP
0:00:31party I my oh my your VIP huh for the
0:00:34top 100 coolest people in technology but
0:00:37I didn't know if I was gonna be on this
0:00:39list they were talking about and then
0:00:41this morning it just popped up and i am
0:00:44apparently the bearded British man i'm
0:00:46making light of this is a real talk for
0:00:49a moment I'm incredibly proud of myself
0:00:51and for a favor I happy today you have
0:00:53been recognized for your hard work and
0:00:57yes it's mike let's see what it would do
0:00:59they say about you
0:01:00they literally do something the bearded
0:01:02and pradesh yeah I currently yep that's
0:01:06me
0:01:07co-founders and host of relief and
0:01:09podcast network launched in 2014 focus
0:01:11on technology with podcast featured by
0:01:15Apple good picture of you there Mike
0:01:17yes on our about page they cropped
0:01:19Stephen out is that Steven shoulder
0:01:22automatically the structure i think so
0:01:24they could have cropped it a little more
0:01:26it did not make it so obvious they could
0:01:28have got any photo of me really like do
0:01:31there are many photos of just me i don't
0:01:33know why they felt like they needed that
0:01:34one but they did you getting ready for
0:01:36this party though you don't you're
0:01:37prepared you need to do need to go soon
0:01:39we're recording this
0:01:40I'm gonna be recording on the road today
0:01:42okay well I i did go and get my hips to
0:01:45trim today I've had my beard and my
0:01:48haircut play by my friend
0:01:50oh this is that that fancy place that
0:01:53you go to for your beard massage or
0:01:55whatever like they have beside yeah
0:01:57that's that's it
0:01:58I don't know how you maintain these
0:01:59things there is a little bit of
0:02:00massaging going on after I ok so i'm not
0:02:03wrong that you should look at how beer
0:02:05decided what a ridiculous notion
0:02:06actually they did massage my period
0:02:08right that's that's what I'm just
0:02:09hearing from me it kind of puts this
0:02:11like bid moisturizer
0:02:13Ernie massages into my face many stung
0:02:16yeah that's I'm gonna call that a beer
0:02:18dressage Michael yeah it around that
0:02:20first I was like I i'm filled this claim
0:02:23and then the like roll back the the
0:02:25thoughts and I was like all know he
0:02:27could do that that's how it ends
0:02:29so i'm currently in that state of when
0:02:31you get a haircut and your clothes are
0:02:33just stabbing you
0:02:35you know I mean I mean that stage right
0:02:36now it's uncomfortable
0:02:38yeah funnily enough wearing the nail and
0:02:40gear t-shirt flying the flag I get yep I
0:02:43actually have a flag as well
0:02:45perfect this is great crickets welcome
0:02:49to the hello Internet nation
0:02:50yeah talking about nations that actually
0:02:52your back in this one after being away
0:02:54for awhile i am again again
0:02:58yes did you just you walk down to the
0:03:00train station and appeared in Amsterdam
0:03:02again is that what happened why is this
0:03:04what i don't understand
0:03:0662like irritate you this whole thing is
0:03:09so strange to me it's just so weird
0:03:12so yeah I have relatively recently
0:03:16returned from a second trip in Amsterdam
0:03:21a second working trip in amsterdam and I
0:03:24feel like it was in the theme of the
0:03:28year of less i went there i did a lot of
0:03:30a lot of thinking I did a lot of work
0:03:32and it was a very good experience for me
0:03:37I like the idea of the year of less
0:03:41entails you going to another country and
0:03:44like shacking up in a hotel reminds him
0:03:48for a few weeks I feel like less would
0:03:50be you know a more minimal environment
0:03:53way or just a home an empty room or
0:03:55something you know
0:03:56okay okay okay okay so listen it's the
0:03:59year of less and more extravagance you
0:04:03coming yeah you're coming at this
0:04:05becoming if this is the wrong way okay
0:04:07so listen I took this trip because it
0:04:10happened to work out that given a couple
0:04:13of of scheduling things i had like a
0:04:15week of no meetings or anything and so I
0:04:18thought at the last moment again i was
0:04:21going to take this trip and do some work
0:04:24but it is
0:04:25less like because the reason I find this
0:04:29trip so beneficial is that it is a
0:04:33decision minimal environment there's
0:04:37there's nothing to decide on on a trip
0:04:41like this so i say like I've done this a
0:04:43hundred times for everything is the
0:04:45second time I've done it but you may you
0:04:46may hear from my voice and I'm thinking
0:04:48in the future that this is a thing that
0:04:50I might want to do again I've been
0:04:52thinking about your cycles that you
0:04:54mentioned last time this has been on my
0:04:56mind a lot i have a hard time figuring
0:04:58out how this exactly works in my
0:05:00schedule but that that thing you said
0:05:02last time about having a non week in an
0:05:04off week I keep thinking about that and
0:05:05how to do that on up on a broader scale
0:05:07but so the hotel thing is the decisions
0:05:12are taken away from me so I went to
0:05:16Amsterdam with this whole notion of like
0:05:18this very limited things here i'm going
0:05:20to have the same food every day i'm not
0:05:24going sightseeing or anything i'm just
0:05:27going to have the same routine
0:05:29everything is going to be super simple
0:05:32and then plus since it is a hotel there
0:05:35are many things like I have none of the
0:05:38concerns of a normal house or I don't
0:05:40have to take out the garbage i don't
0:05:43have to do any of this other stuff and
0:05:45also because i am going on my own it's
0:05:48like there's not another person that I'm
0:05:49thinking when are they coming home
0:05:51there's no external concerns here
0:05:54decisions are very few and it has put me
0:05:57in a very focused mindset and I fell
0:06:01into a really great routine while i was
0:06:05there that I have been attempting to
0:06:07continue to follow since i have been
0:06:09back so that it has been it's a great
0:06:11experience but it is less Mike even
0:06:13though I'm going somewhere else it's
0:06:14definitely less gonna come back to that
0:06:17routine that you mentioned before
0:06:20why amsterdam again the but you could do
0:06:23this in London or somewhere else in the
0:06:26UK like what took you there again
0:06:28because last time if i remember
0:06:29correctly Amsterdam was a good location
0:06:32because you're actually meeting with
0:06:33some friends
0:06:34yeah the the amsterdam thing this time
0:06:37was mostly laziness
0:06:39cuz i decided again at the last moment
0:06:40that i was going to do this and I didn't
0:06:42feel like trying to research a whole
0:06:45other environment right I knew that the
0:06:48place that I was going had the things
0:06:50that I wanted it had minimally decorated
0:06:53rooms of which even the decorations that
0:06:56did exist I put them all in the closet
0:06:58much the confusion of the hotel staff
0:07:00and it had appropriate exercise
0:07:03facilities and there was the ability to
0:07:06run nearby and there were a couple of
0:07:08places in the hotel to work like it
0:07:10ticked all of the boxes for things that
0:07:12I was looking for in a place to work and
0:07:14I didn't want to spend a whole afternoon
0:07:17you know trying to find a second new
0:07:19place I thought since I'm doing this at
0:07:21the last minute let me just go to the
0:07:23guaranteed location
0:07:25I've been thinking about this a lot and
0:07:26it's it's it's hard to it's hard to
0:07:30express but i feel like i have gained
0:07:34this real feeling from doing this it's
0:07:37actually kind of fun in my life when I
0:07:39came back described it as they're like
0:07:41oh you have been on the gray
0:07:43incorporated company retreat but it's
0:07:46just you like there's nobody else but
0:07:48that this was the this was the
0:07:50equivalent thing because when I came
0:07:52back I was talking with her about it a
0:07:53little bit and I imagine like many
0:07:56annoying CEOs of large companies when
0:07:59they go away on retreat they come back
0:08:00in like how we have all these great
0:08:02ideas for how we want to change the way
0:08:04the company works right and all the
0:08:05employees in a god oh now he's read some
0:08:07business book and he has a whole new
0:08:09idea about how things are going to
0:08:10happen and i basically did that to
0:08:12myself with just myself while it was an
0:08:15Amsterdam thinking about it this morning
0:08:16probably the thing i can say the most
0:08:19clearly is in this theme of year of less
0:08:24brackets me when I went here to work and
0:08:28when I established this routine and when
0:08:32there were no decisions to make about
0:08:34what was going to happen it almost
0:08:37brings into very sharp focus how limited
0:08:44amount of time you have to accomplish
0:08:47the number of things you want to do so
0:08:50it's not necessarily that like the day
0:08:51itself is
0:08:53limited but if i look at the list of all
0:08:55of the projects are all of the things
0:08:56that I want to work on there are more
0:08:58things on that list that i could
0:09:00reasonably accomplished in an entire
0:09:02lifetime right if we are in the David
0:09:05Allen parlance looking at a someday
0:09:07maybe list of all of the potential
0:09:08projects that might want to do work on
0:09:10it's like okay there's several human
0:09:13lifetimes of stuff in here like there
0:09:15isn't just enough time for anyone to
0:09:17actually do everything that they want
0:09:19and I don't know I think sometimes being
0:09:25busy with a lot of the little day-to-day
0:09:29stuff of life can kind of hide that I
0:09:32don't know I feel like busyness is this
0:09:34this feeling that you can get wrapped up
0:09:39in that distracts you from how much you
0:09:43are actually accomplishing and and
0:09:45getting done whereas when i was there at
0:09:49the hotel and thinking like okay I am
0:09:51every day at this time just going to
0:09:54write for a certain number of hours and
0:09:56there's no decisions about this like
0:09:58this is just what's going to happen
0:10:00it makes it really clear that like okay
0:10:02if you are working on the things that
0:10:04are most important to you and then that
0:10:06already takes up half of the day like at
0:10:09best you have another half of the day to
0:10:12do other stuff so like what are the
0:10:14things that it's going to fill the rest
0:10:15of that time somehow it just it made me
0:10:18much more aware of the limited time and
0:10:21energy in a way that is not so obvious
0:10:25always in a in a busy
0:10:28normal daily life situation one thinking
0:10:33about is not even so much all of the
0:10:37things that I would like to do forever
0:10:39but sometimes just like all of the
0:10:41things i need to do today who and quite
0:10:45a lot of the time I don't have the time
0:10:47to do them because of the things that
0:10:50occur in my life that I want to do the
0:10:53artwork right so for example when Dina
0:10:56come home and we cook together we eat we
0:11:00talk when we watch TV shows or movies
0:11:02they're all things that I really want to
0:11:05do
0:11:05but if we I didn't do those things i
0:11:08would have more time to get more work
0:11:10done so if I had a really big project
0:11:14and when I do have really big projects
0:11:16we do skip those things but I can kind
0:11:20of see the advantage of having a block
0:11:25of time where there are no distractions
0:11:27like that like i can the more that
0:11:30you're talking about it and even though
0:11:32it is still kind of a little bit crazy
0:11:34and ridiculous to me I do start to see
0:11:40the benefit of completely
0:11:43uninterruptedly i can work for as long
0:11:46as I want time there really is something
0:11:48that is fundamentally different about
0:11:52having big uninterruptedly lakhs of time
0:11:57like even the most minor of of things so
0:12:00when I work at home for example my wife
0:12:03will go to work and then she comes back
0:12:05at some point later in the day her
0:12:08coming home is the world's most minor of
0:12:11interruptions
0:12:12but there's something about when i am
0:12:15home and I'm working
0:12:17there's an awareness of oh my wife is in
0:12:19the house and then there's a feeling of
0:12:21well there's an obligation to spend time
0:12:24with her like and I want to spend time
0:12:25with her and now she's here that's a
0:12:27thing that we can definitely do and then
0:12:28suddenly like the whole work environment
0:12:31just shifts your brain is ever so
0:12:33slightly now debating between two things
0:12:37or having to resist doing the easier
0:12:40option if there's something that you
0:12:42need to finish working on whereas in
0:12:44this kind of constrained environment it
0:12:46like it's just me
0:12:48there's there's no one here to see
0:12:49there's no one here to talk to
0:12:51there's just me and either the work that
0:12:54I'm doing or the few books that i have
0:12:56brought with me that I want to read and
0:12:58focus on and that's it like there is no
0:13:00other place for the brain to get
0:13:03distracted by I think it's really
0:13:06important to point out the those
0:13:08distractions are extremely important
0:13:11that they should happen right like the
0:13:14idea of you deciding i'm going to move
0:13:17to
0:13:18forever on my own because I can do more
0:13:21work 24-7 that is not a healthy thing to
0:13:24do right like you you agree with that
0:13:27yeah yeah they are distractions yes but
0:13:30they're worthwhile distractions but
0:13:33there are times where it's good to just
0:13:36be able to focus completely on something
0:13:39there's two clarifications that I want
0:13:41to bring up here right but the first is
0:13:43that if this podcast has not already
0:13:46made it clear i'll refer you to episode
0:13:48number one entitled I don't really like
0:13:51work and that i have no desire to move
0:13:56to Amsterdam permanently leave all of
0:13:59the responsibilities of my life behind
0:14:01and just work all day every day because
0:14:04I don't really like work fredley it's i
0:14:08am not consumed by work in the way that
0:14:12I think someone like he's always my
0:14:14go-to but like someone like Richard
0:14:16Branson I think for example is a person
0:14:18who is always feel that he's like a
0:14:22broken person but he's broken in a
0:14:26useful way and that that man gets his
0:14:29thrills out of starting new companies he
0:14:32obviously can't not start new companies
0:14:35and always be doing business like that
0:14:37is his obsession and that is why he's a
0:14:40billionaire with a billion companies i
0:14:43I'm not that kind of person i have never
0:14:46been that kind of person i have no
0:14:48aspirations to be that kind of person I
0:14:51am much more interested in the idea of
0:14:55how do i get the maximum amount of
0:14:59result for the amount of time that I'm
0:15:02putting in and one of the things that
0:15:05also aligns with the year of less for me
0:15:08is really trying to be very aware of any
0:15:15kind of working time that is not
0:15:17maximally effective and this is what i
0:15:20mean by a little bit like a like
0:15:21busyness is bad it's very easy to be
0:15:24busy and feel like you're doing a whole
0:15:26bunch of stuff but not actually doing
0:15:29the things that are really
0:15:31and so so going to Amsterdam was not
0:15:36about boy I can't wait to work all day
0:15:41every day because that it like that's
0:15:42not something that necessarily find
0:15:44enjoyable for me it was about I am
0:15:49deciding in advance that this is a place
0:15:54where i am going to be very focused for
0:15:59a finite amount of time on the things
0:16:03that are the most important and so
0:16:07that's why when I was there I was
0:16:08focused primarily on my health actually
0:16:11and then also on writing scripts which
0:16:16is the most valuable thing that I can do
0:16:18in terms of my business and if I wasn't
0:16:21either exercising or writing i was
0:16:24reading a few books that i thought would
0:16:27be helpful in thinking about like the
0:16:31direction of things for the next year
0:16:34and about business and and the rest of
0:16:36it's like those those were the
0:16:38activities that I was focusing on
0:16:41primarily and it it's funny because
0:16:43again like when I think about my routine
0:16:45for the day and how things were going at
0:16:47the end of every day i felt just exhaust
0:16:51I felt just completely drained from the
0:16:54result of a lot of like a full day of
0:16:56being mentally focused on just the
0:16:58things that are the most important so a
0:17:02trip like this to me is valuable and
0:17:06possible i think a key part of it is
0:17:09because there is a clear end point right
0:17:12where it's like I'm going to do this
0:17:14thing at maximum capacity for X number
0:17:18of days and when you have something like
0:17:20that in your mind it's much easier to
0:17:22stick with but I think if I was if I was
0:17:25trying to work like that all of the time
0:17:28just in my normal life I don't think
0:17:31that I could possibly do it like i think
0:17:32i would i would burn out very fast or
0:17:35just be too exhausted after after a
0:17:38certain point like you can't you can't
0:17:40live your life like a monk in a cabin
0:17:44in a city forever or at least I don't
0:17:47want to live my life like that business
0:17:49monk
0:17:49yeah like a business monk it's not
0:17:51possible do you not worry though that
0:17:55the more that you do this the more that
0:17:58you may become dependent on it does not
0:18:00concern you like if you keep doing this
0:18:02so you do this every couple of months
0:18:04you don't worry that you might get in a
0:18:06situation where you can only fully focus
0:18:09when you're in these types of
0:18:10surroundings
0:18:11it's funny while i was actually there
0:18:13one of the books i was reading was
0:18:15talking about in one section just as a
0:18:17slight tangent like The Incredible port
0:18:19importance of working at hotels and
0:18:21working at different environments that
0:18:22was like oh this is positively
0:18:24reinforcing they were describing those
0:18:27things JK Rowling and talking about how
0:18:29she couldn't finish her last book and it
0:18:33helped ended up like booking the entire
0:18:35top floor of some hotel in glasgow and
0:18:38just working there to finish the final
0:18:40harry potter book that's too much she
0:18:42didn't need the whole full you know the
0:18:45penthouse suite or whatever the
0:18:46penthouse ok right like at the top there
0:18:48is the foot that's the hopefully she
0:18:49books out seven rubes I can't really see
0:18:53that there are you don't want neighbors
0:18:55not even in the hotel nobody remembers
0:18:56I'm not worried at all about this
0:19:00becoming a thing that is a necessity for
0:19:03me because I am viewing this as one of
0:19:07the the tools in my arsenal and I really
0:19:11do me like i have been trying to think a
0:19:13lot about trying to do this on some kind
0:19:16of regular schedule and it just so
0:19:20happens that it's been about three
0:19:22months since the last time I went
0:19:24something like oh maybe this is a thing
0:19:26that i can try to plan for to do like
0:19:30once a quarter and maybe the idea of
0:19:33having that as a as a thing that I can
0:19:35anticipate and plan for maybe this would
0:19:39work really well in in a schedule as as
0:19:43part of this idea like have a cycle to
0:19:46your work don't just have a constant
0:19:49uniform grind to what it is that you're
0:19:52doing
0:19:53I think the only way you can save
0:19:54yourself from yourself is to put this in
0:19:56your schedule
0:19:57I genuinely mean that as well like I
0:20:00think if you don't plan this type of
0:20:02thing in you you could end up in a
0:20:04situation for you cannot work in London
0:20:09let's see I think it's the exact reverse
0:20:12here that if I don't put this in a
0:20:13schedule it will be very difficult to
0:20:16actually make time for this again this
0:20:19this trip just happened because a bunch
0:20:22of things in a particular we cancelled
0:20:24leaving me unexpectedly free but that's
0:20:26not a normal situation so I think it's
0:20:28actually the reverse I need to plan for
0:20:30this to ensure that it does happen
0:20:33not if i don't plan for it it will creep
0:20:36and take over my entire life
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0:22:51you mentioned a routine ya doing email
0:22:55again half the time i'm still terrible
0:22:59at email that's absolutely terrible at
0:23:01email
0:23:02yeah I I i had a good routine they're
0:23:05described the general day look like that
0:23:07so I i got up at about six in the
0:23:11morning most days and i went down to the
0:23:15restaurants and I got the same same
0:23:17breakfast every morning because it'sit's
0:23:19no decision so we just get an omelet and
0:23:22I would get a coffee and I would read
0:23:26for maybe half an hour while i was
0:23:27having breakfast and then right after
0:23:30having breakfast i went back up to the
0:23:33hotel room and this is kind of key thing
0:23:35was in the hotel room I then had my my
0:23:42pad pro actually set up sort of Honor
0:23:44this is on a chair on a desk in the
0:23:48hotel rooms that I was at standing
0:23:49height and i would write the scripts
0:23:54that I was currently working on for as
0:23:57long as i was able to do that like as
0:24:01long as I could stay focused on this
0:24:03script and still feel like i am making
0:24:05progress on it and so these were usually
0:24:08sessions that were like three or maybe
0:24:10four hours long depending on the morning
0:24:13and as always at the stuff i look kind
0:24:16of like a crazy person because the most
0:24:18effective way for me to spend time
0:24:22writing is actually
0:24:24to be talking it out loud so it was a
0:24:26lot of time of I'm standing up I'm kind
0:24:28of pacing back and forth a little bit
0:24:30but reading reading it out loud or like
0:24:33trying out new sentences out loud and
0:24:35then adding them to the script if I like
0:24:37them are cutting stuff out and so that
0:24:41that is without a doubt and also
0:24:43according to my spreadsheets the most
0:24:46effective way that i can spend my time
0:24:48it is bringing a script closer to
0:24:53completion and it is also the most
0:24:55focused and mentally draining of the
0:24:58time that i can spend and I think in
0:25:03some ways this is this is similar to
0:25:05people who do computer programming that
0:25:08blocks of uninterruptedly time where you
0:25:13can really get into the focus of it is
0:25:18incredibly valuable and difficult to
0:25:21replicate time and just the simple
0:25:26knowledge that there was nothing else on
0:25:30my calendar for the rest of the day like
0:25:32there was no podcaster record there was
0:25:34no Bank appointment to go to there was
0:25:36no nothing it mentally changes the frame
0:25:40like it it it feels like there is a
0:25:42relief like the brain can relax and say
0:25:46okay look if if we were here for five
0:25:50hours or six hours it wouldn't matter
0:25:52because there's nowhere to be like you
0:25:54can just focus on this thing until the
0:25:57point at which you are done and you
0:26:00don't have to worry about trying to shut
0:26:02stuff down before you're finished or not
0:26:04so that that part of the day like just
0:26:08that morning part was the absolute most
0:26:11valuable thing like getting up at a
0:26:13consistent time having as people know
0:26:16like I'm very sensitive to changes in
0:26:18the early morning schedule like if
0:26:20things don't go quite right in the
0:26:21morning it has bad knock-on effects
0:26:23forming was like no this is going to
0:26:25work perfectly every time in this hotel
0:26:27because you're going to get up the
0:26:28restaurants always going to be there is
0:26:29always going to be nobody there because
0:26:32you're the only lunatic in the
0:26:33restaurant at six in the morning you're
0:26:35going to get the exact same on that
0:26:36you're going to read for the same
0:26:37amount of time then you're going to go
0:26:39up and you're going to be able to now
0:26:41focus on the writing in an environment
0:26:44where you're guaranteed not to be
0:26:46interrupted and you have nothing on the
0:26:48schedule later in the day so that was
0:26:53the that was the morning part of it when
0:26:55i was done writing then that was where I
0:26:58changed and I focused on health so that
0:27:00I would go to the gym or i would go for
0:27:04a run so I was alternating that on
0:27:07either days and at that point like after
0:27:12going to the gym or going for a run
0:27:13which always takes a surprisingly long
0:27:15amount of time for some reason my brain
0:27:16I'm always thinking like oh good
0:27:17exercising is going to take half an hour
0:27:19but but the whole thing between like
0:27:21getting ready actually exercising and
0:27:23then coming back and and taking a shower
0:27:25and change like I find that whole thing
0:27:27takes way longer than you always think
0:27:29it does nothing I wanted to yeah that's
0:27:32exactly it
0:27:33maybe that's what is my brain is like as
0:27:35will be 20 minutes it's like actually
0:27:36it's like an hour-and-a-half buddy do
0:27:38you know this right like this happens
0:27:39every day like that i'll be twenty
0:27:40minutes this time now I've got it down
0:27:43yeah it just it just never works out
0:27:46that way and so I at this point having
0:27:52done the writing mental exhaustion and
0:27:57then exercise physical exhaustion I was
0:28:00a completely drained human being
0:28:04it's just like I can do nothing now and
0:28:07so as I have learned well this is an
0:28:09excellent time to do the thing that i
0:28:11mentioned on earlier podcast which is
0:28:12the the coffee power nap thing right
0:28:15where you have some caffeine right
0:28:17before taking a nap which then allows
0:28:19you to sleep briefly but wake up without
0:28:21any kind of sleep inertia and then in
0:28:24the rest of the day like afternoons are
0:28:27not super productive times for me as i
0:28:28have mentioned but then i would read for
0:28:31a large portion of the afternoon until
0:28:33there was an early dinner that I would
0:28:36have always the same thing there was one
0:28:38restaurant that I was either ordering a
0:28:40burger from or this kind of chicken
0:28:42dinner from alternating either days so
0:28:44again no decisions to be made there
0:28:46whatsoever and then in the evenings
0:28:48often find that I have an additional
0:28:50burst
0:28:51of energy to work on things and then I
0:28:54was working on just a bunch of projects
0:28:56that had been causing me the most amount
0:29:00of stress related to my business i
0:29:03finally finished a whole bunch of stuff
0:29:04related to taxes and like it's just a
0:29:07bunch of business nonsense that it's not
0:29:10super important in the same way that a
0:29:13video is but it was important to get
0:29:15done because i had been aware that in
0:29:17the past few months it had been really
0:29:18dragging on my mind so I was able to
0:29:21really kill a few projects while i was
0:29:23there that feel like they were mentally
0:29:26freeing to get done and then you know
0:29:29after after that maybe just read a
0:29:31little bit before bed and then fall
0:29:32asleep and do the whole thing again the
0:29:34next day and it was glorious
0:29:35it was absolutely glorious yeah knowing
0:29:39you as I know you I can see what you
0:29:41left that it's also i like I didn't
0:29:44leave the hotel most days because there
0:29:45was no need to as crazy as it sounds
0:29:48there was no time to make it really felt
0:29:52that way
0:29:53yeah sure almost every day like I like
0:29:55this is what i mean by there's this
0:29:57feeling of it highlights the year of
0:29:59less in a way that is hard to articulate
0:30:01was like in some ways i was doing so
0:30:03little but also never felt like the days
0:30:07were shorter like how could I possibly
0:30:09do anything else how could I have any
0:30:11other life outside of this i know not
0:30:13like the the day just flies by
0:30:16even though it's like okay what have I
0:30:17done I've done some writing I've done
0:30:19some exercise done some reading and I've
0:30:22done some administration it's like for
0:30:23actual discrete tasks but then the day
0:30:26is over and i'm exhausted
0:30:27why can't you replicate a lot of the
0:30:29home because Mike life life intrudes in
0:30:37a way
0:30:37life finds away yeah life finds a way to
0:30:40annoy you and this kind of activity is
0:30:45an artificial holding at bay a bunch of
0:30:48things like you can't actually live your
0:30:51life and this totally disconnected way
0:30:53and as contrast because i had been
0:30:56holding a bunch of things back when I
0:30:59returned home everything was waiting for
0:31:03me
0:31:03and the very first day that I had back
0:31:06after this amsterdam trip was the exact
0:31:09opposite of this that's like okay so I
0:31:11get up in the morning and my wife is
0:31:13awake as well and so she's getting ready
0:31:15for work and like we have a little
0:31:16morning routine like we're talking to
0:31:18each other and then so she goes off to
0:31:19work and I sit down and like okay I'm
0:31:22gonna get going to get right to writing
0:31:23now and not five minutes later like the
0:31:26front doorbell rings and there's a
0:31:27package from amazon you know
0:31:29okay great thanks ok fine package from
0:31:32amazon like a sign for it I grabbed it I
0:31:34go back to sit down and literally not
0:31:37ten minutes later because i had to check
0:31:38my watch because i couldn't believe that
0:31:39it wasn't true
0:31:41ding dong bell rings again and there's a
0:31:43guy who needs to come and check the gas
0:31:45meter in the house no okay fine
0:31:48come in and check the gas meter and so
0:31:49don't worry i only be five minutes okay
0:31:51but now there's someone in the house and
0:31:53I can't be pacing around like a crazy
0:31:55person talking out loud and writing and
0:31:57it's also just weird that someone's
0:31:58there and of course with these things
0:32:00it's a creeping delay and he's not there
0:32:01for five minutes
0:32:02he's actually there for an hour and a
0:32:04half like that's how long he was there
0:32:06for what was he doing there was
0:32:08something broke in and something needs
0:32:10to be fixed and then a second guy need
0:32:12to come and it's like it my perspective
0:32:15on it is like I don't care what they
0:32:16were doing right it doesn't matter they
0:32:17just need to fix something in the house
0:32:19but it just took forever and then I had
0:32:23after that there was a phone call that I
0:32:28had to take like a meeting that I had to
0:32:30take with someone while I had to take
0:32:31that meeting someone else came to the
0:32:33house who need to repair a lock on the
0:32:35front door so like I need so now I'm
0:32:37like on the phone while someone's in the
0:32:39house repairing a lock on the front door
0:32:40and the lock guy leaves because i was on
0:32:43the phone I didn't have a chance like
0:32:44check his work entirely and it didn't
0:32:47wasn't fix the first time so like now I
0:32:49need to arrange for him to come back and
0:32:51do this other thing I forget what it was
0:32:52there was some other thing that happened
0:32:55in the evening and it was one of these
0:32:56days was like I cannot believe this this
0:32:58is the exact opposite of this experience
0:33:00like i have now come back i have had an
0:33:02entire day that his felt really busy and
0:33:05draining but over which I feel like I
0:33:07have accomplished literally nothing like
0:33:10okay
0:33:10the gas that i thought was fine was
0:33:12fixed but so from my perspective like
0:33:14nothing has really changed
0:33:16I do and wanted to fix the lock but
0:33:19didn't fix the lock and then you know
0:33:21it's just like I received some packages
0:33:24okay great packages i obviously there's
0:33:27stuff in the house that I need these
0:33:28packages for but when i'm in a hotel
0:33:30like I don't need any of these things
0:33:31because all just taken care of so this
0:33:33is what I mean like it's an artificial
0:33:35environment that only works for a
0:33:37limited amount of time right you you
0:33:39have to come back to regular life and
0:33:41regular like this has all of these
0:33:42little intrusions that are that are
0:33:44frustrating but the one thing that I
0:33:47have definitely taken away from this
0:33:48like the concrete thing that is going to
0:33:52be different is I am now looking for a
0:33:59dedicated office space in London so I
0:34:04don't I don't yet know how practical
0:34:07this idea is I don't have a good
0:34:09understanding of the office space rental
0:34:13market around where I am I don't know
0:34:16I'm just beginning to look into this but
0:34:18from this trip I was thinking about it
0:34:20afterwards and thinking okay what was
0:34:21the most valuable part the most valuable
0:34:24part was that initial writing and the
0:34:27thing that it depended on was a space
0:34:31that was my own that was private at
0:34:35which i will receive no interruptions
0:34:38and so I thought okay let me try to
0:34:41replicate this
0:34:43so what I'm going to try to do is just
0:34:45find an office it's like a room
0:34:48somewhere nearby that has a door that I
0:34:52can close so with my own space and I can
0:34:54just go there first thing in the morning
0:34:56and not either try to stay at home but
0:35:00then be vaguely worried about just
0:35:02pointless interruptions which happen all
0:35:03the time especially when you live in a
0:35:05building where there's like 15
0:35:06apartments and so anybody delivering
0:35:08packages all the time will just press
0:35:10all of the button so that someone
0:35:11answers which is hugely frustrating so
0:35:14that's the idea like I'm gonna see if I
0:35:15can replicate at least the most valuable
0:35:18part of that experience going forward in
0:35:21the future but I really literally just
0:35:23have started this in the past couple
0:35:24days I don't have any idea if this is
0:35:26gonna work out or how practical it is
0:35:28but I'm
0:35:29I'm hoping to take away this valuable
0:35:31part and reproduce it here when you said
0:35:34that those is part of made it was gonna
0:35:36ask you but seriously was going to ask
0:35:38you all that sounds interesting let me
0:35:40know if you need a desk mate and then
0:35:42realize how that is like the complete
0:35:44opposite of what you want you would be
0:35:46the worst Deskmate you'd be the works
0:35:48because I'll be so awesome
0:35:49no you'd be doing podcasting stuff I
0:35:51wouldn't record from the office doesn't
0:35:53matter it doesn't matter if i don't have
0:35:55a desk mate i'm not i'm not splitting
0:35:57the rent with you this is the whole
0:35:58purpose of this thing exactly that's why
0:36:00that's why so ridiculous that had the
0:36:01idea like all this is a good idea I'll
0:36:05go in with you and then realized how
0:36:07terrible that would be yeah maybe we
0:36:09just find someone with two rooms and we
0:36:11just never talked to each other now I
0:36:13just don't take this the wrong way Mike
0:36:15but I don't want to be anywhere near you
0:36:16with my office and flickers gotta be
0:36:19separate this is the whole thing has to
0:36:21be completely separate keep my office
0:36:24away from you for those listeners who
0:36:25remembered me mentioning in path that I
0:36:27do have a co-working space and wondering
0:36:29what the deal is going on this trip made
0:36:34me realize something that was obvious in
0:36:36retrospect but was not obvious until I
0:36:38had a break from it which is that over
0:36:42maybe the past six months in particular
0:36:44my co-working space has gotten very
0:36:46popular it is very busy and I used to be
0:36:51very good at using it outside of normal
0:36:54business hours using it in the evening
0:36:56when I could have it all to myself or
0:36:58using it on the weekends when no one
0:36:59would come in or sometimes using it very
0:37:01early in the morning but I sort of
0:37:04didn't notice that over the last six
0:37:06months there were always people there
0:37:08now it doesn't matter what time i show
0:37:10up it doesn't matter if it's on the
0:37:12weekend i'm always always have this
0:37:14thought right which is great so I'll
0:37:16walk in and it'll be like 6 p.m. on a
0:37:18sunday and i think okay great i'll let
0:37:20me go to space and have it to my own i
0:37:21can i can talk out loud and I walk in
0:37:24and they'll be some people in there and
0:37:25I'll always have the exact same thought
0:37:26like who are these losers in this
0:37:28co-working space right now what's wrong
0:37:30with year that you have a life that is
0:37:33it always my father uh what the hell are
0:37:35you guys doing here
0:37:37I'm supposed to be the only loser who's
0:37:39here right now put your
0:37:41here this ruins everything for me but
0:37:44again it's it sounds dumb but something
0:37:48about like this slow increase of people
0:37:51being there over a long period of time
0:37:53made the change invisible
0:37:56yeah until I realized like oh man having
0:37:59a guaranteed private space that i can go
0:38:01to without interruption is invaluable is
0:38:03like duh
0:38:04man that's so obvious but you don't
0:38:07notice things until you see until
0:38:09there's like a change and then you can
0:38:11reflect back on what what is different
0:38:14so that that is that has been extremely
0:38:17valuable for me if I was in the position
0:38:20location wise to be able to read to rent
0:38:23an office space just like that which I
0:38:27could set up equipment and it could be
0:38:28all safe and it's over in walking
0:38:30distance
0:38:30I would have done that already who it is
0:38:34continuing to work a hundred percent
0:38:35home
0:38:37I don't think in the long term is going
0:38:38to be the best scenario for me
0:38:40yes actually it's actually brings up
0:38:42another thing that has come to the front
0:38:46of my mind as a result of this trip
0:38:48which is I have this clear feeling of
0:38:55location contamination and what I mean
0:39:02by this is I I the longer i had been
0:39:05self-employed the more firmly I believe
0:39:07in this idea like okay when you don't
0:39:10have clear constraints on your work it
0:39:13is very helpful to associate particular
0:39:16activities with particular routines or
0:39:19locations and so even within the hotel
0:39:23when I was in Amsterdam I was very
0:39:25conscious of i am only on this side of
0:39:29the room when I'm talking out loud and
0:39:32doing the writing and i'm only going to
0:39:35be at this table in this cafe downstairs
0:39:38when i'm doing administration stuff to
0:39:41clear other projects like the only thing
0:39:44i'm doing in the gym is i am working out
0:39:47in the gym I'm not lounging around since
0:39:51they was doing the gym ahead take my
0:39:53laptop to the gym
0:39:54no matter how like they had like a spot
0:39:56section kind of thing and I just like
0:39:58this is this feels like a weird
0:40:00contamination like they had a place
0:40:01where you can sit you know anything no I
0:40:03don't want to do this and listen to like
0:40:04Zen music or something like now this is
0:40:06to this is like the same routine and the
0:40:09same environment like going into the gym
0:40:11and you know getting flip-flops or
0:40:13whatever I just feel like you have to
0:40:15keep things clear and and mixing stuff
0:40:20is bad and I don't know what episode it
0:40:23was on but on one of the earlier
0:40:25episodes of cortex that I made a comment
0:40:27and it's like okay now I understand why
0:40:29but I i said that i have found that my
0:40:33home office even though i am super
0:40:35thrilled to have it is a place of a
0:40:38really low per our productivity in many
0:40:42ways for me and I think I know why now
0:40:45and the reason is because I have since I
0:40:49moved in here done almost every single
0:40:51kind of activity in this room like I
0:40:54will write scripts in this room i will
0:40:56animate in this room i'm recording a
0:40:58podcast right now in this room i will
0:41:00edit a podcast in this room i will also
0:41:03then do administration like email work
0:41:05here but like also when I'm editing a
0:41:08podcast i'll be playing a game at the
0:41:10same time in this room is like this
0:41:13office is great to have at home but it
0:41:18is suffering from this problem of like
0:41:20it's not clear to my brain
0:41:22what am I supposed to be doing right now
0:41:23in this space
0:41:25it's never clear because i do almost
0:41:27absolutely everything so my idea with
0:41:30trying to rent out an office space in
0:41:34London if i can do it is i'm going to
0:41:37try very hard to only have writing and
0:41:42talking out loud happened in that room
0:41:44right there is i'm going to go into this
0:41:46room going to do this particular
0:41:48activity and if I'm not doing this
0:41:50particular activity i'm going to leave
0:41:52brightness that I think I want my brain
0:41:55to learn that this happens here and then
0:41:59that that it has like a little bit more
0:42:01of a separation was like okay then my
0:42:03home office becomes much more of a
0:42:05a podcast recording and editing place
0:42:08but i'm not even going to try to write
0:42:11in my home office i'm going to try to
0:42:12always do it in a particular place i'm
0:42:16convinced that this is very helpful but
0:42:19i'm curious to try to be much more
0:42:21conscious about this going forward to
0:42:24have like locations and routines
0:42:27associated with particular kinds of work
0:42:29so I never for example want to bring all
0:42:33of my tax paperwork and do like do all
0:42:36of that stuff in the same place that I
0:42:38want to be the place where I do writing
0:42:40i'm going to try to keep things much
0:42:41more separate going going forward from
0:42:44here on out you know what makes it was
0:42:48what when your officers also your
0:42:51bedroom
0:42:52well I have as I was discussing about
0:42:55this i was thinking about you Mike
0:42:57yeah who do you want to tell the people
0:42:59why you were thinking about that gray
0:43:00yeah because we actually had our first
0:43:03facetime chat ever that's not so great i
0:43:07need to call me for something and
0:43:09instead of calling me on live audio like
0:43:13people do I see
0:43:16cgpgrey cooling i press the answer
0:43:18button and LP pops any concede my
0:43:20bedroom that I didn't want you my
0:43:24bedroom gray well you know you let me in
0:43:27the press we accept but yeah I can't
0:43:34wait to change this like you know and I
0:43:36understand the idea of like having the
0:43:38Home Office brings those problems but
0:43:41i'm really looking forward to sleeping
0:43:44in a different room but my Jessica's in
0:43:46oh yeah don't get me wrong like the Home
0:43:49Office problem
0:43:50this is way better than having a single
0:43:52room in which you do literally
0:43:53everything having your podcasting studio
0:43:56also be your bedroom is is frustrating
0:44:00it's frustrating but you didn't make
0:44:02your bed when I called I was surprised
0:44:04that was just unmade bed in the
0:44:05background so tell people my secrets but
0:44:09you don't make your bed at I'm sure
0:44:11nobody else does that just isn't as a
0:44:15quick piece of evidence that i think
0:44:16favors this theory is going back to
0:44:19what you refer to as the spider dungeon
0:44:21I have a spot attention the original
0:44:23place where i started my youtube career
0:44:25I think that that is great evidence for
0:44:29this because like that environment was
0:44:32horrible but it had the key feature that
0:44:35my brain learned like when you are in
0:44:38the basement you are writing and this is
0:44:40the only activity that we do down here
0:44:42because it's a horrible place we can
0:44:45tell what its day but it's also the only
0:44:47place where I could be on my own and
0:44:49talk out loud and not disturb you know
0:44:51my wife or neighbors or anybody else or
0:44:53anything so I feel like I lucked out in
0:44:57my early career by doing that kind of
0:45:01behavior train your brain to associate
0:45:03this work with this place and in the
0:45:07past couple years I haven't been doing
0:45:08that so much has been a lot of bleeding
0:45:10over of edges and boundaries and so i
0:45:13think i'm going to attempt to
0:45:14reinstitute that as a lesson that I have
0:45:18learned from my most recent trip and
0:45:20amsterdam
0:45:20I don't know Mike how well I've been
0:45:22explaining this stuff i have this
0:45:24feeling as a result of the end of this
0:45:27trip is difficult to articulate and you
0:45:29know only analogy that I can make is I
0:45:33have I have heard from people who do
0:45:37psychedelic substances they have a
0:45:40feeling that sticks with them long after
0:45:43doing psychedelic substances that they
0:45:46find difficult to articulate but that
0:45:49nonetheless is a positive experience
0:45:51that they find influences their future
0:45:54behavior
0:45:54mhm and I think that's what amsterdam
0:45:57this trip was like for me in the most
0:45:59boring work way possible i feel like
0:46:02i've had some kind of business
0:46:05psychedelic experience that is
0:46:07impossible to explain to outsiders but
0:46:10is nonetheless positive and is affecting
0:46:13my future decisions so in summary you
0:46:17went to answer them you had a
0:46:18psychedelic experience and now you're
0:46:21gonna get an office
0:46:22yeah okay the end today's episode of
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0:48:32episode of cortex and helping us out a
0:48:34relay of them there's been another beta
0:48:37Mike came out unlike I think the day we
0:48:40released our last episode
0:48:43yeah so I was in this weird feeling
0:48:44where as much as I want Apple pencil
0:48:47support to to come back to us in the way
0:48:50that we wish when that came out a little
0:48:53bit like man if they put it back in
0:48:54today apples were in the sure i was in
0:48:58her i was in a real quandary great about
0:49:00that
0:49:01do I want it back enough that yeah i'm
0:49:03happy for the show to be completely
0:49:04outdated within hours the answer is yes
0:49:08Mike
0:49:09yes and you know you felt you felt in it
0:49:12some sort of conflict about this because
0:49:14of your business man tendencies but I
0:49:18couldn't have cared less
0:49:19I wanted that I wanted the pencil
0:49:21support back the way it's supposed to be
0:49:23immediately and I would have gladly
0:49:26immolated the show that we had just
0:49:28released hours before in order to have
0:49:31that but you still have your wish here
0:49:34Mike because i'm going to talk about the
0:49:37Apple pencil some more because nothing
0:49:40nothing has changed
0:49:42actually that's not strictly true
0:49:45because i have had several independent
0:49:50unrelated sources in the no confirmed to
0:49:55me what was simply a fear last time that
0:50:00removing the functionality of the Apple
0:50:03pencil is a decision inside of Apple it
0:50:07is not a bug that they have overlooked
0:50:0943 betas it is a decision and I
0:50:13obviously think it is an absolutely
0:50:16disastrous decision but it seems like
0:50:19this is something that Apple wants to do
0:50:22differently and i would like to take
0:50:25another swing at trying to convince them
0:50:27to not do this differently
0:50:29yeah i would also like that so what we
0:50:32can carry on on this but it has been
0:50:35frustrating to hear this from a few
0:50:37different corners of people saying that
0:50:38that this this is something that Apple
0:50:40wants to do have you been invited to
0:50:42cupertino for secret meeting yet i have
0:50:44not been invited to cupertino I am I am
0:50:47waiting just check your spam folder with
0:50:49its revolting but if you are at apple
0:50:52and would like to invite you to
0:50:53cupertino up please use the contact form
0:50:55on my website
0:50:56I think my personal assistant can find
0:50:58that and bring it to my attention
0:50:59because i'm terrible at email i would
0:51:02really hate to seek an email from tim @
0:51:05apple.com three months from now when I
0:51:07actually go through all of my public you
0:51:09okay it could be in that you don't even
0:51:11know
0:51:12no it can't be in there but maybe I
0:51:14should search for at apple.com after the
0:51:16fuck haha so here's what here's the
0:51:19thing here's the thing right so i think
0:51:21this is a terrible decision but I have
0:51:23been given some indications from people
0:51:25that they're like oh but don't worry
0:51:26apple has amazing stuff planned for the
0:51:29pencil
0:51:30yeah and as we try to discuss last time
0:51:32I don't care at all about the amazing
0:51:34stuff that they have planned but but
0:51:36trying to think it through so I here
0:51:38here is my imagining of what is going on
0:51:41an apple
0:51:41okay what do you want the pencil to be
0:51:45able to do that you can't do if the
0:51:47pencil can scroll the safari web page or
0:51:50turn a page in a book or slide over and
0:51:53share she like what like what is on
0:51:55their mind and my best guess at this is
0:51:59that Apple's idea is they want people to
0:52:03be able to mark up whatever they are
0:52:06looking at this this has been a very
0:52:09popular theory in the red thread as well
0:52:11the the thing that really makes me sad
0:52:13about this is it seems to me like the
0:52:15perfect kind of thing that makes a great
0:52:18demo on stage like I can see someone
0:52:22who's thinking about demoing new
0:52:24features on stage loving the idea of
0:52:27pulling up a website circling something
0:52:31on that website and then being able to
0:52:33send like a picture of the screen with
0:52:35the circle on the page to their friend
0:52:37or whatever it just seemed like a great
0:52:40tech demo that someone would love to do
0:52:42despite like the actual usefulness of
0:52:46that like how much is someone going to
0:52:48do that in the same way that I think of
0:52:50those little all of those demos about oh
0:52:53you're going to be able to draw a tiny
0:52:55flower on your watch that you will then
0:52:57send to someone you like I don't think
0:53:01there's a lot of people out there who
0:53:02are still using the drawing features on
0:53:04their watch great tech demo actually not
0:53:08so useful in real
0:53:09life so I think this is what the utility
0:53:12of the Apple pencil is being sacrificed
0:53:15for and I don't think that's a good
0:53:18trade-off
0:53:18here's what I've been thinking about the
0:53:20ipad pro is being sold as a professional
0:53:25tool and when I think about what does
0:53:29that mean professionals need tools that
0:53:35are more precise than just using their
0:53:40meaty monkey hands on a screen
0:53:44I think for any kind of professional
0:53:45work that someone does you need a
0:53:48precision pointing device and so for
0:53:53example I think of I think of the mac
0:53:55and so on the mac in my own work i do
0:53:57animating I work with audio i work with
0:54:00video and do all the kinds of stuff that
0:54:03Apple in their commercials just like
0:54:05loves to see people doing on their
0:54:07machines we look at this creative work
0:54:09like this writer uses it he draws
0:54:11Stephanie makes videos to do all of
0:54:14those things you need if you're going to
0:54:17do it professionally a professional tool
0:54:21if for example Apple decided that only
0:54:25track pads were allowed on the mac if
0:54:29that would be a horrible experience for
0:54:31almost any professional like I dare you
0:54:34to go to Pixar for example and take away
0:54:38all of their weak home tablets and hand
0:54:40them track pads and say open look you
0:54:42can paint with your fingers on this
0:54:44track pad on the screen isn't that great
0:54:46it's a one-to-one experience you're able
0:54:48to touch this thing and make it make a
0:54:50line on the screens like no listen for
0:54:52professional work you need professional
0:54:54tools and those tools need to be precise
0:54:57now a trackpad much like iOS is for a
0:55:02normal user a much more intuitive
0:55:04experience because it is a direct
0:55:07one-to-one relationship like you move
0:55:10your hand on the trackpad and the thing
0:55:12moves on the screen or you do gestures
0:55:14and stuff
0:55:15people love trackpads but professionals
0:55:18need better tools and so when I look at
0:55:22the ipad
0:55:23add the whole of the ipad is already a
0:55:28trackpad like the whole freaking screen
0:55:32is the trackpad and now if you want to
0:55:36have something that you are selling to
0:55:40professionals that you want
0:55:42professionals to use you need additional
0:55:45tools for the future of the platform you
0:55:50need a precision pointing device and
0:55:54apple has made that very precision
0:55:58pointing device it works two day right
0:56:02now i think one of the things to point
0:56:04out at this point which i think is a
0:56:06really important distinction is that
0:56:08when you're saying about professionals
0:56:10doing professional work let's imagine
0:56:12that part of what you're talking about
0:56:14here is animating right you do the
0:56:17animations with the pencil and that
0:56:19works even with the 93 beta restriction
0:56:23the problem is if you want to change
0:56:25tools if you want to scroll through a
0:56:27list of tools you have to mold shift you
0:56:29have to put the ANCYL way you have to
0:56:31use your finger that friction is enough
0:56:35to make you not want to use it
0:56:36that is exactly the thing i am thinking
0:56:38about something like a podcasting tool
0:56:42in the future on on ipad pro this is
0:56:44something that like I know there are so
0:56:46now but i'm trying to think about the
0:56:47future of these tools and so if you were
0:56:50say editing a podcast on an ipad pro i
0:56:53can easily see a situation that kind of
0:56:55like Maps the very wacom tablet that we
0:56:57were talking about a couple shows ago
0:56:59now onto the screen where you could say
0:57:02like do gestures with one hand and you
0:57:04can be doing precision pointing and and
0:57:07cutting with the pencil in the other
0:57:08hand without a doubt with professional
0:57:11level tools you constantly need to shift
0:57:13stuff right it's not going to be a basic
0:57:16painting app you're using a vector
0:57:19drawing tool it's not going to be
0:57:20something like garageband if you want to
0:57:22have a professional audio tool on an
0:57:24ipad pro and you're not going to be able
0:57:26to have something like iMovie be usable
0:57:29for for professionals on an ipad pro you
0:57:32need much more in-depth tools and you
0:57:34know what much more in-depth tools
0:57:36require lots of menus lots of submenus
0:57:40lots of list that you scroll through
0:57:42switching things all over the time and
0:57:46if apple says you can't use the pencil
0:57:51like this professional tool to navigate
0:57:53the interface fully I think it limits
0:57:56the way these things can be made like it
0:58:00just it makes them so much more
0:58:02frustrating it's frustrating on both
0:58:04ends like it's frustrating if someone is
0:58:07say trying to design a professional
0:58:09drawing app for the iPad pro and then
0:58:13thinking oh right but I I shouldn't make
0:58:15any of these lists long because if
0:58:17someone has the pencil in their hands
0:58:19are not going to be able to scroll with
0:58:21it and it's also frustrating like you
0:58:23said because it makes someone who is a
0:58:26professional I kind of not want to just
0:58:28use the pencil all the time as this tool
0:58:30if you constantly have to mode shift
0:58:32back and forth who does Apple think this
0:58:36is for like if the pencil is just for
0:58:40drawing and just for basic markup like
0:58:42okay
0:58:43the ipad pro is already a niche apple
0:58:46product the pencil within that is a
0:58:50niche within an itch but I think like
0:58:53the ipad pro with the pencil as it is
0:58:55today
0:58:56apple's market there is every artist or
0:59:00everyone who works on a computer that
0:59:03uses a wacom tablet right like that is
0:59:05no small market but if they then say
0:59:08like okay the pencil can only be used in
0:59:11markup it can't be used in the interface
0:59:14it's like okay well anybody who uses pen
0:59:16tablet professionally that's not an
0:59:18attractive option like that's a
0:59:19pointlessly frustrating option i don't
0:59:21know i just i see so much potential in
0:59:26the ipad pro for the future with the
0:59:29addition of this precision pointing tool
0:59:32and it seems insane to me to limit that
0:59:37future like to limit what people can do
0:59:40because you have an idea of how you want
0:59:45people to use it
0:59:47and there was that there's a link about
0:59:49Johnny I've a while ago talking about
0:59:51the pencil and and how he thinks about
0:59:54it and it's pretty clear from this
0:59:56interview that like Johnny I've in his
0:59:59mind has
0:59:59mind has
1:00:00the thing that we mentioned last time
1:00:01that he imagines people are just going
1:00:04to use the pencil to draw pretty
1:00:06pictures and he doesn't want it to be
1:00:08confused for a useful tool for
1:00:11professionals on a device called the
1:00:14ipad pro let me read a quote to you this
1:00:16is sent into us by a listener with the
1:00:19name Matt I think there's a potential to
1:00:23confuse the role of the pencil with the
1:00:25role of your finger and iOS and I
1:00:27actually think it's very clear the
1:00:29pencils for making marks and the finger
1:00:31is a fundamental point of interface for
1:00:33everything within the operating system
1:00:35and those are two very different
1:00:37activities of two very different goals
1:00:39that is directly from Johnny I've I
1:00:42understand what he's saying but he's
1:00:45wrong but I get what he's trying to set
1:00:49out to do I can completely understand
1:00:53that argument that there is some level
1:00:56of simplicity to the idea that your
1:00:58fingers navigate the interface and the
1:01:01pencil is for making marks i can
1:01:03understand where he's coming from
1:01:06I just think that's so limiting you know
1:01:08the problem with it
1:01:10what didn't ship that way apple gave us
1:01:12a taste of what we now feel is too is
1:01:17the perfect solution which is the pencil
1:01:19operates everything if they shipped the
1:01:21way it's currently in the 9.2 beta it
1:01:24shipped the way that Jony ive clearly
1:01:26set out to make it happen we wouldn't be
1:01:29upset right now I would still be pretty
1:01:31upset if the pencil couldnt navigate the
1:01:33interface you would do you think oh I
1:01:35would like it if it could do that but
1:01:37you wouldn't know what you're missing
1:01:38I wouldn't feel how I feel now which is
1:01:41that almost like i have been personally
1:01:44burned by Apple Apple handed me the most
1:01:47amazing perfect tool for the future of
1:01:49my work and the future of many other
1:01:51people's work and they took it away it's
1:01:54it's this line here where he says the
1:01:55finger is the fundamental point of
1:01:58interface for everything in the
1:02:00operating system that to me is the
1:02:02worrying part a vision of iOS for the
1:02:06rest of time that requires you to always
1:02:10be pressing just your fingers
1:02:13and only your fingers against the screen
1:02:15fingers are a great way into a platform
1:02:19like clearly the success of the iphone
1:02:22was in no small part due to the fact
1:02:24that people could just touch the buttons
1:02:25on the screen with their hands right
1:02:27like no doubt about that but to then to
1:02:30the hens say like for iOS four now these
1:02:34huge iOS screens that they're building
1:02:37like that this device the interface can
1:02:39only and forever be navigated with human
1:02:42meaty fingers and cannot be interacted
1:02:46with using other tools i just think that
1:02:48is it deep deep mistake to make it is
1:02:53the same to me is just saying on a Mac
1:02:55if only touchpads could be used to
1:02:58interact with the interface you can't
1:03:00use keyboard shortcuts right you
1:03:02couldn't use anything else like that's
1:03:03the same level of decision here and
1:03:05that's also the thing that I find
1:03:06frustrating especially with the pro
1:03:08because it's like okay when you think
1:03:10that the finger is the fundamental point
1:03:12of interface for the system uh why then
1:03:15can i press command space on the ipad
1:03:18pro and bring up spotlight and start
1:03:20typing in spotlight that's not using my
1:03:22finger for the interface
1:03:23why do you have command tab on on the
1:03:26ipad pro allowing me to access the task
1:03:29switcher without touching the screen she
1:03:31could it be that these are features that
1:03:34the vast majority of users never touch
1:03:37never even know exist but that for
1:03:39professional users are vital every
1:03:43single day maybe that's the same thing
1:03:45with keyboard shortcuts like I i would
1:03:48bet for anything Apple nose on the Mac
1:03:51where they have data about this that
1:03:53like point 0 1 percent of users ever use
1:03:56any keyboard shortcuts like when I see
1:03:58normal people using computers they never
1:04:00use keyboard shortcuts but you know what
1:04:02you still build them in because they're
1:04:04vital for professional users so the
1:04:07whole idea of like okay
1:04:09Apple has this ipad pro they put in
1:04:11keyboard shortcuts they put in all of
1:04:13this keyboard stuff to work with the
1:04:15interface without having to touch the
1:04:16screen like that goes against Jony Ive's
1:04:20design principle as stated in this quote
1:04:22here like come on you know this can't
1:04:26really be
1:04:27the only way to interact with the
1:04:29interface give people more tools to work
1:04:33with your systems that's that's all I
1:04:37want
1:04:38just put it back alright and everyone
1:04:42will be happy
1:04:43it's not hurting anyone exactly i have
1:04:46been hearing from people who are in my
1:04:48position as well like this is actually a
1:04:52health issue like i do really think
1:04:54Apple like you are hurting people by not
1:04:58keeping the way it is in the pre-beta
1:05:00state like I've been hearing from people
1:05:03with RSI issues have been saying the
1:05:04same thing about like oh my god the
1:05:06pencil makes a huge difference in
1:05:08working on iOS like this is a big deal
1:05:09for me I've heard from people who just
1:05:11have mobility difficulties with their
1:05:13hands like the pencil and being able to
1:05:14navigate the interface this is way
1:05:17better and way more comfortable for me
1:05:19than having to use my hands
1:05:20you're all really smart people if part
1:05:23of what you want to do is just make iOS
1:05:25more couple you can find a way to do it
1:05:28yeah put a button share sheet like yeah
1:05:31you can do this if you want to make
1:05:35everywhere markable there are already
1:05:37ways to do that right now like you said
1:05:39taking screenshots and working on them
1:05:41and other editors it's not super elegant
1:05:43but it's possible but like you can find
1:05:46a better way like you have the ability
1:05:48you build the operating system you can
1:05:50find a better way than that to make this
1:05:52work yet two seconds worth of thought
1:05:54you can have a button that you press in
1:05:56control center which then toggle the
1:05:58screen to be marketable compile job done
1:06:00and there's so much space in control
1:06:02sent only probably right we're not we're
1:06:04not sure on real estate there is plenty
1:06:07of space you can add it right next to
1:06:08your creepy always watching me I icon
1:06:11that you now have in there right like
1:06:12that was watching you
1:06:16so that's why it's additionally
1:06:18frustrating like there are other ways to
1:06:21mark up the screen if that's what you
1:06:23want to do and people really want to do
1:06:25that you can make things for that but
1:06:27you're taking away the only way to do
1:06:30something else which is to precisely
1:06:33work with the interface if there's one
1:06:37thing I've learned over the years of
1:06:38following apple
1:06:40is that they they are willing to and
1:06:45they have done changed back the changes
1:06:47they make yeah i think the classic
1:06:50example of this is the ios7 changeover
1:06:54when they had the ridiculously Finn and
1:06:58light text the first time around
1:07:00yeah and when they were running that
1:07:02beta program i think they quite wisely
1:07:05realized okay we've gone too far in this
1:07:08direction of we have an ideal that we
1:07:11want
1:07:11did they go from helvetica night to just
1:07:14helvetica right like they went from the
1:07:15super thin helvetica to a little bit
1:07:17vika but it was it was enough of a
1:07:19difference that it made the difference
1:07:21right where it's like it was still thin
1:07:23but it wasn't crazy in yeah so so that
1:07:27this is also this is still just my hope
1:07:29that within Apple while this is still in
1:07:33beta this is a thing that they will
1:07:36reverse on and I've been just trying to
1:07:38make the case as best I can we are using
1:07:41our political platform jacking factor
1:07:44right on the side of keeping the pencil
1:07:46the way it is
1:07:47leaves it a professional tool any device
1:07:49that is marketed for professionals it is
1:07:52beneficial for the mitigation and
1:07:56avoidance of repetitive strain injury it
1:07:59is beneficial for people who have
1:08:01difficulty with their hands
1:08:03it is a thing that you should leave in
1:08:05it is just frankly pleasant to use the
1:08:09operating system with the pencil if you
1:08:11are used to using a wacom tablet which
1:08:14is almost certainly the very market that
1:08:16you want to sway with with this exact
1:08:18product or you could be able to draw on
1:08:20the screen at any time which is a thing
1:08:22that you can have other solutions for
1:08:24everybody that needs to do that to do
1:08:28markup in iOS already knows how to do it
1:08:31does it the people that need that and
1:08:35went by the Apple pencil to do that
1:08:37already do it exactly i don't know who
1:08:40this market is because that is exactly
1:08:43the kind of thing that is for a casual
1:08:46user not the kind of person who's
1:08:48probably buying an ipad pro and a pencil
1:08:52but I will stress that we don't know
1:08:54that that's what they want to do we
1:08:56don't know what it could be right there
1:08:59could be something that you know which
1:09:00is happens of Apple things that mean you
1:09:02are perceiving as the things that they
1:09:04want to do it right we need to
1:09:05appreciate that is a fact that there
1:09:07could be things that they want to do
1:09:09which are really cool but we don't see
1:09:10what they are
1:09:11yeah this is this is our best guess yeah
1:09:13but I i still say that like
1:09:15fundamentally doesn't matter that
1:09:17yeah it's hard to imagine what a
1:09:19different thing is but as I have
1:09:22expressed to you in very certain terms
1:09:24in private but like a lot of against in
1:09:26it nicer terms now I don't care at all
1:09:30what it is
1:09:31whatever feature they're developing
1:09:33there's no argument I think against the
1:09:37accessibility argument if you have you
1:09:40want to limit accessibility I really
1:09:43don't care what the additional feature
1:09:45is as I said I just I'm still worried
1:09:48that I'm going to find myself in this
1:09:49horrible position of having to choose
1:09:50between am I going to jailbreak a device
1:09:54and compromise digital security or mi
1:09:57going to be damaging my hands over the
1:10:01long run doing the very thing that would
1:10:04want me to do which is going super all
1:10:06in on their new device so that's a
1:10:09that's where we are
1:10:13Apple please do your dear old pal gray
1:10:17of favor here
1:10:19do the right thing
1:10:24great Harley 2016 this message has been
1:10:28paid for by the Apple pencil community
1:10:30vote stylist I want to take a moment to
1:10:35talk about a new sponsor for this show
1:10:37and that is ministry of supply think
1:10:41about it in 2016 clothing should be
1:10:44smarter
1:10:45we've got all this wearable technology
1:10:47and all these newfangled things coming
1:10:48out but the clothing that we wear
1:10:50everyday they don't adapt to us we're on
1:10:53the go all the time you know these
1:10:55things need to be thought about as a
1:10:57body in motion we want to feel
1:10:59comfortable in our clothes they should
1:11:00be designed to work with us rather than
1:11:03against us and that is what drives
1:11:05ministry is so
1:11:06flyer performance professional menswear
1:11:08company who launched out of MIT for
1:11:11years ago they make polished business
1:11:13clothes that are engineered to provide
1:11:16technical benefits like sweat-wicking
1:11:18fibers to keep you dry stretchable
1:11:20fabric to allow you to move more freely
1:11:22and body temperature regulation to keep
1:11:25you from getting too hot or too cold
1:11:27that stuff that body temperature stuff
1:11:29that is the same equipment there is the
1:11:32same technology that NASA developed to
1:11:34keep astronauts cool in space and you
1:11:37will find this along with those
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1:11:40construction for breathability in
1:11:42ministry of supplies most tech for dress
1:11:45shirt the Apollo this thing is insane it
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1:11:50technology is built right into these
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1:11:54feel great
1:11:55one of my favorite things about ministry
1:11:57supply is that you do not need to iron
1:11:59their clothes they are easy to maintain
1:12:01they are wrinkle resistant you can wash
1:12:03and dry them at home minister supply
1:12:06what kind enough to send me some of
1:12:07their stuff and I am thrilled of it that
1:12:09has got sent a great shot and a jumper
1:12:11as well and the jumper or a sweater as
1:12:14you may call depending on where you're
1:12:15on the world has all these little holes
1:12:17in the back which look like a fantastic
1:12:19pattern then you realize they're
1:12:21actually there to help keep you call i
1:12:23love this stuff and I remember going to
1:12:25work in suits and sweating constantly I
1:12:29needed ministry supply then and it's
1:12:31awesome that they're around now you can
1:12:33find out more shop online at ministry of
1:12:35supply.com / cortex and if you use the
1:12:38code cortex you'll get fifteen percent
1:12:40of your first purchase and show your
1:12:42support for this show once again that
1:12:45URL is ministry supply.com / cortex but
1:12:48Mr supply do have their own physical
1:12:51stores and if you are local to 11 shop
1:12:54in person
1:12:55all you need to do is just mention this
1:12:56podcast and you'll get fifteen percent
1:12:58of your purchase in the physical store
1:13:00which blows my mind
1:13:02thank you so much the ministry of supply
1:13:03for their support of this show and relay
1:13:06event I want to revisit something that
1:13:10we discussed on an earlier episode and
1:13:14that is the youtube channel grade-a
1:13:16under a do you remember that
1:13:19you mentioning this a long time ago Mike
1:13:20I don't know if you will yeah is this
1:13:22the one where the animation is like
1:13:25really rough
1:13:27yeah offers generous i didn't wanna I
1:13:30don't wanna you know dumplings professor
1:13:32we had a conversation I was just looking
1:13:34up the show here and this was back on
1:13:38sep tember seventh episode number 12
1:13:42called the rule of two classic can't be
1:13:45classic if we're what is what is this
1:13:47episode of this 2220 here long enough
1:13:50this last year its fifty percent of the
1:13:53way ago that can be a classic episode we
1:13:55were selling t-shirts then that's how
1:13:57she how long ago it was where we yeah so
1:14:00in that episode we discussed a little
1:14:03bit of thing that just always kind of
1:14:06infuriates me which is this this meme on
1:14:09youtube that I have been hearing for
1:14:11forever and people always say about how
1:14:13it's impossible to start a youtube
1:14:16career nowadays because there's too much
1:14:19competition and it's all big channels
1:14:20and we talked about it there i lay out
1:14:23my thoughts about why this is nonsense
1:14:25I I violently disagree with this
1:14:27position and I happen to mention a
1:14:32channel that I was just barely aware of
1:14:34them which was great a under a which was
1:14:36brought to my attention by one of the
1:14:38listeners to the show and I used him as
1:14:42an example of a channel that one didn't
1:14:47have high production values but that too
1:14:50didn't matter because he was producing
1:14:53stuff that was just great
1:14:56like these videos are funny and they are
1:14:58insightful and at that point in time he
1:15:02had just under a hundred thousand
1:15:06subscribers i think it was about how I
1:15:08said he had like ninety thousand
1:15:09subscribers I just taking a look at the
1:15:11page right and what does he have now
1:15:13mike has a million subscribers he has a
1:15:16million subscribers all of these videos
1:15:19are like over a million views right
1:15:22again doing that thing died just don't
1:15:24understand these numbers aren't like any
1:15:27other numbers right look up youtube
1:15:30system is
1:15:31is is strange but I wanted to visiting
1:15:35this follow-up in no small part because
1:15:37i wanted to just point out that like I
1:15:39was right because in that episode I said
1:15:42like he to me struck me as a person who
1:15:45was on the cusp of doing this
1:15:48professionally he was like just about to
1:15:51become big and be able to do this one
1:15:56hundred percent of the time and now as
1:15:59we are recording this episode in
1:16:01February he is doing that like he does
1:16:04this for a living now he makes these
1:16:05videos and he is very successful and so
1:16:09I think grade-a under a is now my most
1:16:11recent go to example to try to argue
1:16:13against this insane idea that somehow
1:16:16even though youtube is more popular than
1:16:20it has ever been that it is impossible
1:16:22for new channels to get noticed like you
1:16:25just no one can break into this
1:16:27environment like it's not true
1:16:29like look at this guy he made a thing
1:16:32that people liked and in the space of
1:16:35several months he 10x his audience
1:16:39I think he's just a great example of
1:16:41this and as far as i can tell again I
1:16:43don't know this person I've just seen
1:16:45this from the outside but I think he's
1:16:47just one person making these videos like
1:16:49that's the impression that I get like
1:16:50it's just him that's what he says and on
1:16:53his video so i have no reason to to
1:16:55doubt himself like it's totally possible
1:16:58it's just a question of making something
1:17:02that people like it's not a question of
1:17:06can you compete with the production
1:17:09values of huge media companies so again
1:17:14i will in fatica Lee encourage anyone
1:17:18who is listening to this show who is
1:17:21thinking i would like to start a YouTube
1:17:24channel but everything is done already
1:17:26and I can't make high-quality videos and
1:17:28there's all these big media companies
1:17:30out there to compete with it's not
1:17:32relevant start something two day tried
1:17:36to make videos that people will like and
1:17:39if you are successful in that you will
1:17:42find success on YouTube is all
1:17:44just impossible not to greatly under a
1:17:48so interesting
1:17:50yeah what's so interesting in that
1:17:52discussion that we originally had on
1:17:54that that episode I believe it is in the
1:17:55episode we spoke about the idea that
1:17:59really kind of what you need is to think
1:18:02and that thing is the thing that people
1:18:05have a don't have and it's really
1:18:07difficult to know what it is it's really
1:18:08difficult sometimes to know if you or
1:18:11somebody else has it but we used mkbhd
1:18:14as the example of that and how he even
1:18:18in his very first video talking about a
1:18:21TV or something
1:18:22yeah there is 12 you can tell he has a
1:18:25thing and like you watch it and you can
1:18:27see you know what this is just a younger
1:18:31version of the guy who has three million
1:18:35YouTube subscribers right you watch it
1:18:38and you're like Thea this is this is
1:18:40mark ass like this is him right is not
1:18:44fully grown yet but it's there that you
1:18:47can you can see that and you know he's
1:18:50developed a style overtime and he's
1:18:53gotten much better over time
1:18:55he's also got much older over time but
1:18:57it's yeah it's definitely the Kings that
1:18:59like he has a way of explaining things
1:19:02that's very clear to people and people
1:19:05like that and they respond to that
1:19:07I'll give another example actually of
1:19:08this kind of thing that I think is
1:19:09interesting for people to watch and it
1:19:12is it is the youtube channel your movie
1:19:17sucks which is made by a guy named Adam
1:19:20and he to me is it is a very interesting
1:19:22example of someone starting a thing and
1:19:27having something right from the
1:19:29beginning but then also clearly
1:19:31developing his own style so Mike are you
1:19:34familiar with the red letter media star
1:19:36wars reviews please say yes
1:19:38yeah okay good yeah I haven't washed
1:19:40them but I know about them
1:19:42ok you know you know about their
1:19:43existence listeners and I talk about
1:19:46them all the time because i think they
1:19:47are brilliant but they are these review
1:19:50of the Star Wars movies that are done in
1:19:51this very particular style that is
1:19:55striking it's a it's unique
1:19:57it is impossible not to notice the guy
1:20:02Adam who started the your movie sucks
1:20:04youtube channel i think it is a
1:20:07worthwhile endeavor for anybody who's
1:20:09thinking about doing youtube career to
1:20:12go back and watch like his first 20
1:20:14videos in order because they are the
1:20:17clearest example i have ever seen of
1:20:19someone very clearly and explicitly in
1:20:23his own videos saying he is copying the
1:20:26style of redlettermedia like his first
1:20:31few reviews are the exact same style he
1:20:33is saying that but even when you watch
1:20:36them you can see like oh but there's
1:20:37this guy has something here which is his
1:20:41and if you watch those first 20 videos
1:20:42in order you can see someone go from
1:20:47imitating a style which is a great way
1:20:50to start learning how to do with thing
1:20:52and then develop into his own style and
1:20:57become a successful person like that
1:20:59like that to me is the key it's totally
1:21:01fine to start with somebody else's style
1:21:06but like you need to develop your own
1:21:08thing and his is the best example I have
1:21:12ever seen of that were it's just so
1:21:14clear to watch each video he is a little
1:21:17less red letter media and he's a little
1:21:20more himself until now his modern video
1:21:22is worth like it is just entirely his
1:21:24style
1:21:25there's there's nothing any more of the
1:21:27red letter media influence that was
1:21:29there in the beginning and it's just
1:21:30very interesting to see and it happens
1:21:32over a short enough period of time that
1:21:34you can watch it in an afternoon unfold
1:21:36in a kind of similar way
1:21:38not exactly what similar like you can
1:21:40look at something like this podcast and
1:21:42if you listen to episode 1
1:21:44it's different in field and style to
1:21:47what we're doing now I think yeah yeah
1:21:50because it out we found our groove
1:21:53together for the show and we you know
1:21:56felt what the show was about and it kind
1:21:59of has morphed over time you know
1:22:00anybody that that has paid real close
1:22:02attention will see that like we change
1:22:03the description of the show right right
1:22:06kind of fit a little bit more as to what
1:22:08it was that me and you decided we wanted
1:22:10to talk about
1:22:11every week like that like this is a very
1:22:13normal thing I thinking creative
1:22:15endeavors like this and it happens most
1:22:17of the shows that I have done change in
1:22:20some way over time they morph into
1:22:22something a little bit different as the
1:22:24people working together find their
1:22:27groove a little bit more and I think
1:22:29that's exactly the same thing that you
1:22:31see with some of these channels and what
1:22:33you're pointing out here with your movie
1:22:35sucks is it just come a little while to
1:22:37find out what he liked to respond to the
1:22:39feedback that he received and the
1:22:42criticisms that he received and kind of
1:22:44morphed it a little bit from there that
1:22:46is the creative process
1:22:48yeah without a doubt again any of this
1:22:50show is definitely an example of that
1:22:52like if you listen to the earlier shows
1:22:53and you listen to the show's now they're
1:22:54different
1:22:55it's almost hard for me to say precisely
1:22:56what's different like they were sort of
1:22:58more interviews in the beginning but
1:23:00yeah really
1:23:01exactly but something changes over time
1:23:03and it becomes its own thing and yes
1:23:06everyone should keep that in mind that
1:23:08is totally a natural part of the
1:23:10creative process it's a vital part and
1:23:13the only way that you can really find
1:23:15the thing that you want to do and do it
1:23:18the way that you want to do it is to do
1:23:20something
1:23:21yeah exactly is is to start just get
1:23:24started get started with that
1:23:26ASMR video also discussed in the
1:23:29previous episode that you want to make
1:23:31right and and and then develop your own
1:23:33style in the ASMR world whatever it is
1:23:36you want to do like even if you think
1:23:37that the field is crowded if you can
1:23:40develop your own style there is always
1:23:43room for more good content that's why
1:23:47there's always room on YouTube for more
1:23:51good channels even if you're just
1:23:54rubbing a hair brush against your face
1:23:55you just have to do it well let's go
1:24:00beyond I said approach but I don't know
1:24:02what they like what you've got to figure
1:24:03out what they like someone's gonna like
1:24:05it right you know that that's what
1:24:07happens when your billions of people
1:24:08watching YouTube how niche is it it's
1:24:10never a niche enough in the theme of
1:24:13addressing things that happened months
1:24:15and months and months ago
1:24:16oh yeah if you finally played that steam
1:24:20controller that you got
1:24:21oh yeah this is this has been sitting in
1:24:25the document for forever in our months
1:24:27and i basically listeners to peel back
1:24:30the cut a little bit i put in the
1:24:32document i say follow up steam
1:24:33controller have you tried it yet and for
1:24:36many many months there was a little box
1:24:38well there was a little word next to it
1:24:40the great but and then it just said no
1:24:41and every time I bring it into the
1:24:43document and it never changed and then
1:24:45this week it changed to yes but you
1:24:49notice that it changed to yes this week
1:24:51but I had changed it to yes after i put
1:24:54up the Antarctic video that one chance
1:24:57to play around with the sealant roller
1:24:58Maya it's been sitting here for months I
1:25:01felt kind of bad like i bought this
1:25:02piece of hardware and I never tried it
1:25:04out but yes in the video game section of
1:25:09the podcast i have tried out the steam
1:25:10controller and also this connects to me
1:25:14because it's the RSI concern of the
1:25:16podcast which is I like to switch input
1:25:18devices and i mentioned i had gotten
1:25:19this thing because I was concerned about
1:25:21using my keyboard and the pen or using a
1:25:25mouse for games as well as for just
1:25:27regular working stops I want something
1:25:29different i was pretty doubtful about
1:25:32the steam controller but i thought what
1:25:34the hell let me give it a shot and I
1:25:37decided when I was going to try it that
1:25:40I was going to try it under the worst
1:25:42possible case which is playing a game
1:25:46called factorial which I love which have
1:25:48mentioned many times but is a game that
1:25:50it just involves an infinite number of
1:25:52mouse clicks and sub windows and
1:25:54right-click sit you know it's one of
1:25:56these kind of games like you're just
1:25:57managing something so it's all about
1:25:59ticking boxes and window management and
1:26:02all kinds of stuff so it's a really
1:26:04difficult game to do with any kind of
1:26:07controller it's it's obviously designed
1:26:09for a mouse and also it's not inside of
1:26:13steam at all like it'sit's not within
1:26:16their little network at least at the
1:26:17time that i played it so this will be a
1:26:19great way to try to test this controller
1:26:21because this is the worst possible
1:26:23scenario and the bottom line is the
1:26:26steam controller i am a huge fan of this
1:26:29thing I i was so impressed with the way
1:26:34it works
1:26:35under the least optimal case that it is
1:26:38it's just amazing i really like it's a
1:26:41weird weird controller because it has
1:26:43touchpads right instead of any Alex tix
1:26:47okay yes I'm i have it have it in front
1:26:50of me right now so it has in the center
1:26:53one analog stick for your left thumb and
1:26:56then the standard like X Y a B buttons
1:26:58for your right thumb but immediately
1:27:00above it there are two touch pads and
1:27:03it's those touchpads that seem crazy but
1:27:07totally work for all the kinds of games
1:27:10that are going to be in the Steam
1:27:11library and also are the kind of things
1:27:13that I like to play so again work
1:27:16simulator kind of games that have lots
1:27:18of Windows and lots of sub menus and
1:27:20boxes to tick and all this kind of stuff
1:27:22it allows you to with your right thumb
1:27:26essentially operate a trackpad and move
1:27:30the cursor around on screen in a really
1:27:33natural way like you can adjust what the
1:27:35sensitivity is so that you can with just
1:27:38very slight thumb movements move the
1:27:40pointer back and forth across the
1:27:42entirety of the screen you can do all
1:27:44kinds of crazy things like there's
1:27:45triggers on the bottom that you can have
1:27:47to be modifier keys so it's really easy
1:27:49to do something like left click or right
1:27:50click the whole thing is super
1:27:52customizable everything you can change
1:27:54to work anyway that you want which is
1:27:57absolutely absolutely vital like even
1:28:00even those touchpads you can have them
1:28:02work like they're a touchpad but you can
1:28:05also change it to just pretend that it's
1:28:07a basic d-pad so there's only four
1:28:09inputs depending on where your thumb is
1:28:11where you can change it to work like a
1:28:12joystick it's amazing to me how well it
1:28:15works and to be able to do something
1:28:16like move the game point around with one
1:28:19thumb while zooming in and out on the
1:28:22map with the other thumb with the to
1:28:24touch pads just feels like magic I can't
1:28:26believe how well it works so I was
1:28:27extremely doubtful but for anyone who
1:28:30plays games on a computer i can i can
1:28:34highly recommend it like this gets the
1:28:36CGP grey seal of approval and it is
1:28:39really beneficial to me to be able to
1:28:41switch to this for game playing instead
1:28:44of using the same tools all the time so
1:28:46it's like yes RSI
1:28:48helps mitigate it I i really liked it
1:28:51even though I was extremely doubtful
1:28:53about it huh
1:28:56you sound doubtful still no now i'm
1:28:59interested but you're a console peasants
1:29:02right now yeah yeah sure i don't think i
1:29:04play enough p certain games because
1:29:06everything tends to be underpowered and
1:29:09pointless on a pc i haven't done nothing
1:29:14but she's yeah he's making really
1:29:15pointless claims they're pointless is
1:29:18why do you find it really interesting
1:29:19that for you to have a superior pc
1:29:23gaming experience you've had to turn to
1:29:25a controller this is really interesting
1:29:27to me i would i would honestly prefer to
1:29:30use a mouse and keyboard all the time
1:29:32for all of my gaming and I would do it
1:29:34were it not for my hand issues like I
1:29:37think it is for the kind of game that I
1:29:39like it's impossible straight up to beat
1:29:41a mouse and a keyboard
1:29:42you're just not going to do it but this
1:29:44is a very comfortable very close
1:29:48experience that doesn't straighten my
1:29:50hands in the in the usual way
1:29:52yeah he's a weird-looking thing that
1:29:54it's super weird looking i was able even
1:29:57I'm just holding it in my hands right
1:29:58now and i was really doubtful about the
1:30:00way like the handles really curve up
1:30:02into the palm of your hands in a way
1:30:03that looks dumb
1:30:04it almost looks like the whole
1:30:05controller is too low but again using it
1:30:09for long periods of time you can see why
1:30:11they have it set up that way cuz it's
1:30:14very comfortable than to have your
1:30:15thumbs on on the trackpad and then their
1:30:17triggers are they on the back of the
1:30:18hand palm rests
1:30:20yeah there are big triggers yeah there
1:30:23are two triggers that are on each side
1:30:26directly underneath your index finger
1:30:28and there's two like gripple triggers
1:30:30that are on the bottom that you can
1:30:32trigger with your middle and ring
1:30:34fingers
1:30:34there's tons of buttons and again you
1:30:36can set them to be anything that you
1:30:37want which is really great you plant any
1:30:39of the games of this
1:30:41oh yeah actually I was trying out a
1:30:42whole bunch of stuff in my library just
1:30:44to see how it works so i was trying city
1:30:47skylines I tried and tried half-life 2
1:30:51as in my Steam library that was probably
1:30:55the trickiest one to use with the
1:30:56controller which is interesting because
1:30:57of course normally think about lots of
1:30:59first-person shooters out in
1:31:00controller-based area that should be the
1:31:02one that makes the most sense
1:31:03yeah that one was the one that i found
1:31:06the trickiest but that might have also
1:31:07just been that i'm so used to playing
1:31:09those games with with mouse and and keys
1:31:12like it's wired into my bride hundreds
1:31:15and hundreds of hours of quake three on
1:31:17computer land college but it's like my
1:31:20brain does not like doing it that way I
1:31:22guess I i tried all the different kind
1:31:24of stuff in my library and it worked
1:31:26very well with all of the games even if
1:31:30they weren't designed to work with a
1:31:31controller at all so super impressed I
1:31:34was thinking a couple of days ago trying
1:31:37to connect to PlayStation 4 controller
1:31:40to my pc to try American Truck Simulator
1:31:46Oh Mike like don't mention it because
1:31:49i'm so tempted right now I cannot
1:31:51believe this is the life that I'm living
1:31:53but I've been seeing people on Twitter
1:31:55tell me o American Truck Simulator is
1:31:57that is out and it's like okay I have
1:32:00several big video projects that are
1:32:03coming to a close quite shortly after
1:32:06like I cannot wait to have these done
1:32:08mainly because i cannot wait to play
1:32:10American Truck Simulator i'm dying to
1:32:12give this a try
1:32:13yeah it looks really good looks
1:32:15beautiful it doesn't that the problem is
1:32:18it doesn't look as good on a Mac
1:32:20apparently this is like graphic card
1:32:21issues that like it looks much better
1:32:23huh on a windows pc that ever looks on a
1:32:25Mac but like it's the same thing with
1:32:28your truck simulator like euro truck
1:32:29simulator on a Mac doesn't look super
1:32:31great as compared to windows because it
1:32:32doesn't look so good
1:32:34yeah but none the less like I am I
1:32:36cannot believe I am now the guy who's
1:32:38like I can't wait to track my truck
1:32:40simulator and it really is through was
1:32:43like man as soon as i get those videos
1:32:46out i am going to drive up and down
1:32:49California and listen to some podcasts
1:32:52and it will be gloriously relaxing i'm
1:32:55very tempted to give American Truck
1:32:57Simulator God euro truck simulator it
1:33:00doesn't really work that don't like
1:33:01playing on the keyboard
1:33:03I just don't like it it doesn't work for
1:33:05me that was terrible on the keyboard is
1:33:07terrible on the keyboard
1:33:08you didn't get a wheel deal don't you
1:33:10remember Mike I only didn't get a wheel
1:33:12because
1:33:13I couldn't sort out any of the mac
1:33:14configurability issue yeah I wasn't sure
1:33:16though if you may be ended up getting
1:33:17one in the end like I don't know we
1:33:19didn't ever come to a resolution from
1:33:21now i don't have a wheel my
1:33:24recommendation for American Truck
1:33:25Simulator it was a trackball I'm sorry
1:33:27well for euro truck simulator I like a
1:33:30trackball a lot for that I found it very
1:33:32comfortable and i did i did play around
1:33:34with the steam controller and that's
1:33:36pretty good i haven't quite figured out
1:33:37in the euro truck when I was just
1:33:39playing around steam controller of
1:33:40precisely how i wanted to work as a lot
1:33:42of different options
1:33:43yeah the keyboard keyboard is the worst
1:33:45don't use a keyboard with its miserable
1:33:47to play with the keyboard
1:33:49I'm so I'm gonna think i'm gonna see if
1:33:51i can get get the playstation controller
1:33:53walking the way that I want because I'm
1:33:55looking at it right now and it looks so
1:33:57much nicer i like the idea of driving
1:33:59across America more the Golden Gate
1:34:01Bridge Las Vegas seems more exciting to
1:34:04me i really wish they did proper
1:34:07two-player again others like a mod for
1:34:09your truck for multiplayer yeah I'd love
1:34:13to go driving with you somewhere would
1:34:15be nice but we wouldn't really be
1:34:17driving we can honk our horns and stuff
1:34:19you know which is higher this is just
1:34:21like this is just like you wanted to
1:34:22rent an office with me at the whole the
1:34:24whole thing that I like about drunk
1:34:26driving my imaginary truck across the
1:34:28highway is driving it alone but will be
1:34:30we could race you know driving it alone
1:34:34man on the highway by himself
1:34:39it's then