The Incomparable

216: Maps of London


00:00:00   the Intolerable number 216 October 2014 [TS]

00:00:10   welcome back everybody to be [TS]

00:00:12   uncomfortable podcast I'm your host [TS]

00:00:13   Jason style and it's going to be another [TS]

00:00:15   edition of our book club we're going to [TS]

00:00:17   talk about a bunch of different books in [TS]

00:00:18   a particular genre I'm hoping this will [TS]

00:00:20   be a little spoiler light so you can [TS]

00:00:22   listen maybe find some books you want to [TS]

00:00:24   read maybe suggest some books to to us [TS]

00:00:27   although unless you're listening live [TS]

00:00:28   but we report this here you for a while [TS]

00:00:30   anyway London urban fantasy is the topic [TS]

00:00:35   I realize not too long ago that i had [TS]

00:00:37   read a whole bunch of different books [TS]

00:00:39   that were set in London that featured [TS]

00:00:42   magic and I I thought that was really [TS]

00:00:47   interesting like trend that all of a [TS]

00:00:48   sudden accidentally although this is [TS]

00:00:50   although to be fair three of the [TS]

00:00:52   bookstore by people who run episodes of [TS]

00:00:53   Doctor Who so maybe that has something [TS]

00:00:55   to do with it anyway we're going to talk [TS]

00:00:57   about those books and other books that [TS]

00:00:59   my panelists have read that are vaguely [TS]

00:01:01   connected to sort of magic and money in [TS]

00:01:05   London and urban fantasy i have i have [TS]

00:01:07   an excellent panel to talk about this [TS]

00:01:09   with me today [TS]

00:01:10   Erica and sign is here hello hello good [TS]

00:01:14   to have you I'm always happy to come and [TS]

00:01:16   talk about a doctor who writers doing [TS]

00:01:18   well really anything I was gonna say [TS]

00:01:20   doctor who related things are happening [TS]

00:01:21   so I'm plenty of course you would be [TS]

00:01:23   here because yep that's how it has to [TS]

00:01:25   work [TS]

00:01:25   dan Warren is also out there hi dan I [TS]

00:01:28   Jason how are you thanks for reading [TS]

00:01:30   that's you know and you sound like my [TS]

00:01:34   second grade teacher [TS]

00:01:35   thank you for literacy reading is [TS]

00:01:37   fundamental then I yes I enjoy it [TS]

00:01:39   riff and now a very special panelist [TS]

00:01:43   he's been on the incomparables [TS]

00:01:45   back-channel mailing list for the very [TS]

00:01:47   beginning just as he was on the TV [TS]

00:01:49   dotnet back-channel mailings from the [TS]

00:01:51   very beginning [TS]

00:01:52   he's been listening to all of our [TS]

00:01:53   conversations for more than 200 episodes [TS]

00:01:55   and has never appeared on a podcast but [TS]

00:01:57   that changes with this episode it is my [TS]

00:02:00   friend from back at UCSD David burkhard [TS]

00:02:04   hi David hi thank you [TS]

00:02:06   yay you're here finally hear your streak [TS]

00:02:09   of being just a secret person who [TS]

00:02:11   was lurking is over you no more looking [TS]

00:02:13   for you unless you get me out of this in [TS]

00:02:16   any way that you've heard now from my [TS]

00:02:20   two panelists what he was never here [TS]

00:02:25   where should we start I mean I I feel [TS]

00:02:29   like I want to start with with neil [TS]

00:02:31   gaiman only because after many many [TS]

00:02:34   years of it being out there i read i [TS]

00:02:36   read never wear which I i had to laugh [TS]

00:02:39   because the wikipedia page 44 never [TS]

00:02:41   where is it refers to it as a [TS]

00:02:44   novelization which I know technically it [TS]

00:02:46   is but it's just very strange i I you [TS]

00:02:48   know like did you not come to the the [TS]

00:02:50   show first [TS]

00:02:51   no I've never seen the show really shows [TS]

00:02:54   actually kind of fun never liked it yeah [TS]

00:02:56   I said watched it I watched it first and [TS]

00:02:58   then read the book sometime later and i [TS]

00:03:01   enjoyed both in very different ways i [TS]

00:03:03   think i watch the TV show after i had [TS]

00:03:05   read it and it's it is very good [TS]

00:03:08   although i think the reason he wrote the [TS]

00:03:10   book eventually was because some things [TS]

00:03:12   in the show didn't turn out the way that [TS]

00:03:14   he wanted them to specifically some of [TS]

00:03:16   the stuff that's more like special [TS]

00:03:17   effects heavy well as the eighties right [TS]

00:03:19   right well then again I mean moving a [TS]

00:03:21   little grief and you still like old [TS]

00:03:22   doctor who episode with my question [TS]

00:03:25   production values you'll probably be [TS]

00:03:27   fine right all right there and I i [TS]

00:03:30   should say I've never read any neil [TS]

00:03:32   gaiman anything [TS]

00:03:33   people keep telling me that you know [TS]

00:03:34   these people kept telling me to read [TS]

00:03:36   trying to meet a bell and deal game and [TS]

00:03:38   yet so I read some trying to me though [TS]

00:03:40   they said those people were not to be [TS]

00:03:42   trusted [TS]

00:03:42   ok alright that he went in the wrong [TS]

00:03:45   order their the divine apparently people [TS]

00:03:47   telling me now people I trust you're [TS]

00:03:49   telling me I should go to the no game [TS]

00:03:50   and i downloaded i did download number [TS]

00:03:52   so we were already off the tractor but [TS]

00:03:54   what China Mieville did you read because [TS]

00:03:56   this is the thing is I've read some of [TS]

00:03:57   the books i love them and I've band and [TS]

00:03:59   some of his books [TS]

00:04:01   yeah the perdidos no no no no don't do [TS]

00:04:04   that is you I obey bad i read three of [TS]

00:04:07   those oh my god i kind of thought that [TS]

00:04:10   you know there are some parts of them [TS]

00:04:12   which are they're very interesting he's [TS]

00:04:13   a very evocative writer but I couldn't [TS]

00:04:17   kisame he is the reason i can't stand [TS]

00:04:20   steampunk it's because of the book is a [TS]

00:04:23   producer street station i don't like [TS]

00:04:24   that book [TS]

00:04:25   all I really literally did put it down [TS]

00:04:27   about a third of the way through i [TS]

00:04:28   thought this was terrible and I came to [TS]

00:04:29   it after several of the other of his [TS]

00:04:31   books which I'm glad that's the [TS]

00:04:33   direction I came because I think the [TS]

00:04:35   city in the city is the advantage from a [TS]

00:04:37   stick book like george orwell 1984 level [TS]

00:04:41   of genius book and i really i really [TS]

00:04:45   like embassy town although not everybody [TS]

00:04:47   did I really liked him again didn't I [TS]

00:04:51   did not like it but that's that's the [TS]

00:04:53   story that's already been covered but I [TS]

00:04:54   think episode in another episode income [TS]

00:04:56   but I think we can all agree on the city [TS]

00:04:57   in the city so you should check it out [TS]

00:04:59   if you ever want to give China Mieville [TS]

00:05:00   another shot and in gaming yeah I came [TS]

00:05:03   to him late i came to him with american [TS]

00:05:04   gods had never read anything else that [TS]

00:05:06   he done i never read The Sandman when it [TS]

00:05:08   came out the comics and I and I never [TS]

00:05:11   saw them never wear series but i really [TS]

00:05:13   liked never wear as a book I thought it [TS]

00:05:15   was really fun this idea that there is [TS]

00:05:17   and what will hear this again as we [TS]

00:05:19   talked but there's that there's this [TS]

00:05:20   upper city of that's the one that sort [TS]

00:05:22   of people see and then there's the other [TS]

00:05:24   thriving underground london which is [TS]

00:05:26   both literally and figuratively [TS]

00:05:28   underground which is powered by powered [TS]

00:05:32   by magic and of course we have a regular [TS]

00:05:33   person who gets sucked into this magic [TS]

00:05:36   world doesn't even realize that he he's [TS]

00:05:39   been sucked into it and ends up in a [TS]

00:05:42   grand adventure with lots of crazy [TS]

00:05:44   characters including the Marquis which [TS]

00:05:47   is the doctor who sort of analog [TS]

00:05:49   character and yeah as a matter of fact [TS]

00:05:53   Patterson Joseph who played the Marquis [TS]

00:05:55   big Carabosse in the show with rumoured [TS]

00:05:58   several times to be a final pick for the [TS]

00:06:00   doctor [TS]

00:06:01   yeah he's good he's a good actor he's [TS]

00:06:03   also way he's also a number wang [TS]

00:06:05   contestant if you like that mitchell and [TS]

00:06:07   webb look he's he's a number one he [TS]

00:06:09   shows up in jackal to ya-ya and doing a [TS]

00:06:13   redditor more American accent oh yeah no [TS]

00:06:17   matter yeah but I i will say i think [TS]

00:06:20   that this idea of I believe in in every [TS]

00:06:22   they call London below is resident you [TS]

00:06:26   know I think there's a reason why you [TS]

00:06:27   know as Jason point out is read so many [TS]

00:06:29   books that have to do with urban fantasy [TS]

00:06:30   in London that's because not only is [TS]

00:06:32   this a city with thousands of years of [TS]

00:06:34   history but much of that is literally [TS]

00:06:37   below it [TS]

00:06:38   so you have elements of the sort of [TS]

00:06:41   layered approach of all these cultures [TS]

00:06:44   that have built on top of other things [TS]

00:06:46   and sort of there's a rich tapestry [TS]

00:06:48   there and ending never wear in [TS]

00:06:50   particular were so many of the [TS]

00:06:52   characters are are like physical [TS]

00:06:55   manifestations of places or things in [TS]

00:06:59   London because London itself if you've [TS]

00:07:02   ever spent any time there has these [TS]

00:07:03   evocative names and I can see why Neil [TS]

00:07:06   Gaiman decided to pull on that for this [TS]

00:07:08   this story because there's so many [TS]

00:07:09   things in there that it's just so you [TS]

00:07:11   know like blackfriars and islington the [TS]

00:07:14   angel Islington and all this stuff [TS]

00:07:15   there's all these these fascinating [TS]

00:07:17   ideas who also is played by the guy who [TS]

00:07:21   is currently yeah [TS]

00:07:22   doctor who is true because one of the [TS]

00:07:24   things i liked a lot about that is is [TS]

00:07:26   the fact that he's he's pulling from [TS]

00:07:28   places which are historical places and [TS]

00:07:30   he's also pulling from like the [TS]

00:07:32   interesting history of the underground [TS]

00:07:34   where there are so many stops and [TS]

00:07:36   stations that just aren't used anymore [TS]

00:07:38   and he i can't remember if they actually [TS]

00:07:40   shot therefore for when they were [TS]

00:07:43   filming or a huge was just able to visit [TS]

00:07:45   when they were doing set scouting and [TS]

00:07:47   stuff but he was actually able to go to [TS]

00:07:49   one of these just these platforms [TS]

00:07:51   underground with you know the trains [TS]

00:07:52   just sit by they don't actually stop [TS]

00:07:54   there anymore and it's just this [TS]

00:07:55   deserted sort of thing and and that kind [TS]

00:07:58   of of idea always has appealed to me we [TS]

00:08:01   don't have so much of that in this [TS]

00:08:02   country or for the country that you guys [TS]

00:08:04   are in because you know we don't have [TS]

00:08:06   these here we have that hasn't been [TS]

00:08:07   hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of [TS]

00:08:09   years of building up like like when was [TS]

00:08:11   saying so I i think the idea of finding [TS]

00:08:14   hidden tunnels and and stuff that people [TS]

00:08:17   have forgotten for centuries to be just [TS]

00:08:20   it actually comes up in several of these [TS]

00:08:21   books and I think it's great you're not [TS]

00:08:23   to address but it's funny because it [TS]

00:08:25   does come up in non London urban fantasy [TS]

00:08:27   like books at New York will be down [TS]

00:08:29   these huge sewer systems and it's not [TS]

00:08:32   true that's but it is true in London [TS]

00:08:34   there really is this huge sewer system [TS]

00:08:36   and this underground that has a lot of [TS]

00:08:39   space the ones that isn't mimic the [TS]

00:08:42   movie that's that that was the plot [TS]

00:08:44   point is that there's a disused subway [TS]

00:08:46   station that the bugs have taken over [TS]

00:08:48   and and it's true actually that [TS]

00:08:51   the there's a museum for the new york [TS]

00:08:54   subway that is itself in a disused [TS]

00:08:58   subway station that's where the museum [TS]

00:09:01   is you go down into the subway station [TS]

00:09:03   and that's where there's apparently a [TS]

00:09:04   couple of those in Boston to they're [TS]

00:09:06   redoing one of the t stops here and it's [TS]

00:09:09   built i think it was built on top of an [TS]

00:09:11   older subway station because those go [TS]

00:09:14   all the way back to like the [TS]

00:09:15   eighteen-hundreds what a perfect place [TS]

00:09:16   to set a story right in this creepy like [TS]

00:09:18   it's a whole subway platform but there's [TS]

00:09:20   nothing there and that's great and then [TS]

00:09:22   I wanted to mention that you mentioned [TS]

00:09:25   angel Islington the angel Islington such [TS]

00:09:28   a key figure and never wear and I've [TS]

00:09:30   been to London I 45 times now and it was [TS]

00:09:35   not until my last visit only like six [TS]

00:09:38   months ago I was staying with a friend [TS]

00:09:40   in the north of London and we were [TS]

00:09:41   riding the bus and we got off at Angel [TS]

00:09:44   station in islington and I just started [TS]

00:09:47   to laugh because i didn't get that joke [TS]

00:09:49   until that moment and I was like a neil [TS]

00:09:52   gaiman you can hope because was just an [TS]

00:09:55   American i didn't get out of everything [TS]

00:09:57   in that book is kind of like that I mean [TS]

00:09:59   you've got things like the old bailey [TS]

00:10:00   right like in Westeros court and all [TS]

00:10:03   this stuff that's like there are places [TS]

00:10:04   in London and but you know which if [TS]

00:10:07   again if you probably lived in London [TS]

00:10:09   you would be immediately recognizing [TS]

00:10:11   them but many of us don't ya know for me [TS]

00:10:14   it was how i learned that those were [TS]

00:10:15   places in London so now when I hear them [TS]

00:10:17   referred to another british shows i'm [TS]

00:10:19   not a long being like yep i know that [TS]

00:10:21   because I never wear thanks neil gaiman [TS]

00:10:22   he that's a yeah it's good i actually [TS]

00:10:25   it's funny the the another another uh [TS]

00:10:29   urban fantasy book that I'll mention [TS]

00:10:30   later has this it's the same thing it is [TS]

00:10:33   a whole lengthy bit about the [TS]

00:10:36   underground the underground there's [TS]

00:10:38   something amazing about that and i'll [TS]

00:10:39   mention it now because I don't think dan [TS]

00:10:41   you read the madness of angels right [TS]

00:10:43   that I get cake Griffin which was [TS]

00:10:45   recommended by one of our our listeners [TS]

00:10:47   on our Goodreads group which is really [TS]

00:10:48   awesome she was like why are you not [TS]

00:10:50   mentioning any women writers and i [TS]

00:10:52   started reading this book i'm not done [TS]

00:10:53   with it yet but i really like it and one [TS]

00:10:56   of the funniest things in it makes me [TS]

00:10:57   you know i'm liking a book when i'm [TS]

00:10:59   imagining what the movie would look like [TS]

00:11:01   and like casting and and [TS]

00:11:03   shooting the movie in my in my mind like [TS]

00:11:05   wow that would make a great scene [TS]

00:11:06   there's a great scene where the two [TS]

00:11:09   characters are on the run from a kind of [TS]

00:11:10   a shadow monster and they and they get [TS]

00:11:13   to the underground station and tap their [TS]

00:11:15   oyster cards on the tap thing to get it [TS]

00:11:18   through the turnstile and then he reads [TS]

00:11:20   from the fine print on the back of the [TS]

00:11:23   oyster card as his spell and basically [TS]

00:11:26   he says if you don't have a ticket you [TS]

00:11:27   can't come in and that the shadow [TS]

00:11:29   monster doesn't have a ticket and [TS]

00:11:31   therefore is prevented from coming in [TS]

00:11:33   it's so great I i do like this way I'm [TS]

00:11:37   more impressed by her as a writer even [TS]

00:11:40   so when when i was reading them i think [TS]

00:11:42   i read the first one the year or two [TS]

00:11:43   after it came out which was in 2009 and [TS]

00:11:47   she's like she's like 24 something which [TS]

00:11:50   with that's an amazingly awesome book to [TS]

00:11:53   write at age 24 has written like a dozen [TS]

00:11:56   novels or something and it's quite good [TS]

00:11:58   and it was enough so that like you know [TS]

00:12:00   reading you know it's just it's an [TS]

00:12:04   incredibly well drawn world and has [TS]

00:12:07   these again kind of like never wear all [TS]

00:12:09   these fascinating links into all these [TS]

00:12:10   things in London and some of the [TS]

00:12:13   subsequent books going to other [TS]

00:12:14   different places there and she comes up [TS]

00:12:17   with some really clever ideas that seem [TS]

00:12:18   to fit really well at night now [TS]

00:12:20   realizing i looked at the wikipedia page [TS]

00:12:21   since we started talking about this look [TS]

00:12:23   out there's like three more books in [TS]

00:12:24   this series i haven't read yeah whoo [TS]

00:12:26   yeah I think that's always good to find [TS]

00:12:29   more books that I good books that i [TS]

00:12:30   haven't yet read now so definitely [TS]

00:12:32   thanks thanks to i wish i had the name [TS]

00:12:35   of the person who who sent me the the [TS]

00:12:38   note to read it because it's because of [TS]

00:12:40   her that our own Lindsay listener [TS]

00:12:42   Lyndsey Taylor thank you for [TS]

00:12:43   recommending that book anything more [TS]

00:12:46   about never where I'm gonna let you guys [TS]

00:12:47   talk about whatever their books you want [TS]

00:12:49   to talk about [TS]

00:12:50   all right who would like to mention [TS]

00:12:51   something he would like to talk about [TS]

00:12:52   something that they've read that falls [TS]

00:12:54   into this category [TS]

00:12:55   this is david or jumping on the [TS]

00:12:57   Horrible's because I don't think you're [TS]

00:13:00   familiar with that but it's I think it [TS]

00:13:01   influenced game in a lot of these riders [TS]

00:13:03   in really being one of the I wanted to [TS]

00:13:07   say one of the first london urban [TS]

00:13:09   fantasies although I realize Bram Stoker [TS]

00:13:11   kind of got there first with Dracula but [TS]

00:13:14   it's about these a [TS]

00:13:16   it kids that have turned into Horrible's [TS]

00:13:18   they get pointy ears and they steal and [TS]

00:13:21   they get into adventures and they they [TS]

00:13:26   did the first book they're fighting [TS]

00:13:28   these things called the rumbles which [TS]

00:13:31   apparently were based on a beloved [TS]

00:13:33   children's show in England which had a [TS]

00:13:36   backlash but fortunately when I read [TS]

00:13:38   this book and engineer i didn't know [TS]

00:13:40   that so sure if it had been them [TS]

00:13:43   attacking Kermit and Miss Piggy wraps [TS]

00:13:46   and I would have been a little sensitive [TS]

00:13:48   about it to you but since i don't know [TS]

00:13:50   these characters but it's it's it's [TS]

00:13:52   clever its funny and it's to me what was [TS]

00:13:54   what was striking about it especially [TS]

00:13:57   reading it for the first time you know [TS]

00:13:58   was that it was so real I mean you could [TS]

00:14:01   pull out of map of London and follow [TS]

00:14:03   exactly the streets they were going on [TS]

00:14:05   and I didn't realize until I was [TS]

00:14:06   rereading it recently and actually using [TS]

00:14:08   the internet and google street maps that [TS]

00:14:11   he was naming specific places like they [TS]

00:14:14   were in an old black abandoned locksmith [TS]

00:14:16   shop and they're really was one on that [TS]

00:14:18   Street back in the eighties for the [TS]

00:14:20   seventies when this first book was [TS]

00:14:21   written but I'm when I also thought was [TS]

00:14:24   striking about it was just that it was [TS]

00:14:25   it doesn't have the normal person that [TS]

00:14:29   finds this world this hidden world it [TS]

00:14:32   actually just starts with the character [TS]

00:14:34   of the use of horrible and then the [TS]

00:14:36   adventures and they get into some [TS]

00:14:38   several ventures the trilogy that last [TS]

00:14:41   book actually wasn't published until [TS]

00:14:42   later because of the the Brixton riots [TS]

00:14:47   the publisher there's a great letter you [TS]

00:14:50   can find online where the the publisher [TS]

00:14:52   decided that it now is not the right [TS]

00:14:54   climate in London to publish a book that [TS]

00:14:56   of defiance to the police but i highly [TS]

00:15:00   recommend that the whole trilogy na i [TS]

00:15:02   think you'll you would see a lot of [TS]

00:15:03   threads and a lot of it takes place in a [TS]

00:15:06   different underground in London that the [TS]

00:15:07   sewer system so there's a lot of things [TS]

00:15:10   influence on rivers the rivers of London [TS]

00:15:12   too because they're they're going along [TS]

00:15:14   all these underground rivers and I'm [TS]

00:15:17   exploring that world so I really liked [TS]

00:15:19   about this is the by michael d.l era by [TS]

00:15:22   Larry Betty lair by terribly i was i was [TS]

00:15:26   i'm gonna set our expertise and declare [TS]

00:15:28   BTW [TS]

00:15:29   RB 80 I got the letter BTW alright I [TS]

00:15:32   he's who also has an interesting history [TS]

00:15:34   if you read his obituary but he yeah i [TS]

00:15:38   think i think that horrible trilogy i [TS]

00:15:39   highly recommend that i think especially [TS]

00:15:41   after having read much of the other ones [TS]

00:15:43   and coming back to it you see how it [TS]

00:15:45   influenced and game and certainly [TS]

00:15:46   acknowledged it i think he was behind a [TS]

00:15:50   recent I think he was one of the writers [TS]

00:15:51   really pushing for it to be re-published [TS]

00:15:53   probably time for a brief break to tell [TS]

00:15:56   you about our sponsor lynda.com you've [TS]

00:15:59   heard me tell you about them before ly [TS]

00:16:01   nba.com and easy and affordable way to [TS]

00:16:04   help people learn you can instantly [TS]

00:16:06   stream thousands of courses created by [TS]

00:16:08   experts on business software web [TS]

00:16:11   development graphic design and more [TS]

00:16:13   lynda.com works directly with industry [TS]

00:16:17   experts and software companies so you [TS]

00:16:19   get the best timely training off the [TS]

00:16:23   same day new versions or releases of [TS]

00:16:25   software hit the market you'll always be [TS]

00:16:27   up to speed your learning from the [TS]

00:16:28   experts and all of the courses on [TS]

00:16:30   lynda.com are produced at the very [TS]

00:16:32   highest quality in their state of the [TS]

00:16:34   art studios these are not homemade [TS]

00:16:37   videos on youtube that you found in [TS]

00:16:39   Scott that coming from somebody's [TS]

00:16:41   basement it's not like that these are [TS]

00:16:43   professional videos from the experts [TS]

00:16:44   every course is broken into bite-sized [TS]

00:16:46   pieces so you can learn at your own pace [TS]

00:16:48   and learn from start to finish or hop in [TS]

00:16:51   get the answer to a question that you're [TS]

00:16:53   wondering about and hot back out and get [TS]

00:16:55   back to work [TS]

00:16:55   lynda.com has great tools like [TS]

00:16:57   searchable transcripts playlist and even [TS]

00:17:00   certificates of course completion you [TS]

00:17:02   can publish those on your LinkedIn [TS]

00:17:04   profile your professional in the field [TS]

00:17:05   that's a perfect fit [TS]

00:17:07   whether you are a beginner or an [TS]

00:17:09   advanced user lynda.com has courses at [TS]

00:17:12   your level so you're just wanting to [TS]

00:17:14   start out you can find what you need and [TS]

00:17:16   if you're a pro who's just trying to [TS]

00:17:18   solve a very specific problem they've [TS]

00:17:20   got you covered there too and you can [TS]

00:17:21   learn anywhere because lynda.com lets [TS]

00:17:24   you view on a website on your iPhone [TS]

00:17:27   your iPad on an Android device all of [TS]

00:17:30   those places you can get to linda.com [TS]

00:17:32   how much does it cost one low monthly [TS]

00:17:35   price of $25 gives you unlimited access [TS]

00:17:37   to over 100,000 different video [TS]

00:17:40   tutorials in the lynda.com [TS]

00:17:42   Mary and if you are a premium member of [TS]

00:17:45   lynda.com with an annual plan you can [TS]

00:17:47   download courses to your iPhone iPad or [TS]

00:17:49   Android device and watch them offline [TS]

00:17:50   and also download all the project files [TS]

00:17:53   so you can practice along with the [TS]

00:17:55   instructor I've learned a lot from [TS]

00:17:57   lynda.com over the years things about [TS]

00:17:59   logic to edit this very podcast things [TS]

00:18:02   about web design to build sites like my [TS]

00:18:05   side six colors just you know it isn't [TS]

00:18:08   such a great resource to learn [TS]

00:18:10   especially technical topics i highly [TS]

00:18:12   recommend that you check out [TS]

00:18:14   lynda.com and here's what you need to do [TS]

00:18:16   I worked out a deal with linda.com to [TS]

00:18:18   provide you with a special offer you can [TS]

00:18:20   access every course in lynda.com library [TS]

00:18:24   free for seven days so take seven days [TS]

00:18:28   off of work and get a lot of coffee and [TS]

00:18:31   learn huge amounts in just seven days by [TS]

00:18:34   visiting lynda.com / incomparable to try [TS]

00:18:38   lynda.com free for seven days [TS]

00:18:41   ly nba.com slash incomparable thank you [TS]

00:18:45   so much to linda.com for sponsoring the [TS]

00:18:48   uncomfortable [TS]

00:18:49   Erica anything you want to throw out [TS]

00:18:52   there in this category well I guess I i [TS]

00:18:56   haven't read a ton in this genre or [TS]

00:18:58   ahead and until i started cramping a [TS]

00:19:00   podcast yeah um I attend to swing more [TS]

00:19:04   towards just science fiction and fantasy [TS]

00:19:06   so but i read it i had read never wear [TS]

00:19:12   because I came to it as I said through [TS]

00:19:14   the through the series but earlier this [TS]

00:19:16   year at the very beginning of the year I [TS]

00:19:18   went was also cramming actually it seems [TS]

00:19:20   like urban fantasy in London is it [TS]

00:19:22   something just cram every time because [TS]

00:19:25   Paul Cornell's book the severed streets [TS]

00:19:30   actually came out this year and that was [TS]

00:19:32   the second in a series of the first one [TS]

00:19:34   was called London falling and I was [TS]

00:19:37   going to see Paul at the gala 481 [TS]

00:19:39   convention this year in February and my [TS]

00:19:42   podcast co-hosted was going to be [TS]

00:19:43   interviewing him onstage about his his [TS]

00:19:46   forthcoming book and the previous book [TS]

00:19:48   so of course I wanted to go and see that [TS]

00:19:50   and i haven't read the book yet so i [TS]

00:19:52   think i'll finish it on the plane on the [TS]

00:19:55   way to galley [TS]

00:19:55   got it in which ended up thank goodness [TS]

00:19:58   being no trouble whatsoever because I [TS]

00:20:01   didn't want to put it down and really [TS]

00:20:02   enjoyed it it is it is another one of [TS]

00:20:04   those those books where you got your [TS]

00:20:07   regular old London which you know could [TS]

00:20:09   be our london in our world for all we [TS]

00:20:11   know and yet there's actually sort of [TS]

00:20:14   outside of the the eyeline of mortal [TS]

00:20:17   folk there's a lot of magic happening [TS]

00:20:19   all the time and never wear it's [TS]

00:20:21   literally below for the most part [TS]

00:20:24   whereas here it's just kind of all [TS]

00:20:26   around us but you can only see it if you [TS]

00:20:28   have quote-unquote the site or if you're [TS]

00:20:30   sort of magical somehow and i think that [TS]

00:20:32   the cool hook of London falling is that [TS]

00:20:35   you've actually got a team of four kind [TS]

00:20:38   of police type people you've got a [TS]

00:20:40   detective a couple of undercover agents [TS]

00:20:42   and analyst and there are working on a [TS]

00:20:44   case and they happen to be in this room [TS]

00:20:46   when something happens near the [TS]

00:20:49   beginning of the book and that that [TS]

00:20:50   imbues them all with this site so [TS]

00:20:52   they're actually able to see the ghosts [TS]

00:20:55   that are just wandering up and down the [TS]

00:20:56   streets and you know that the angels and [TS]

00:20:59   devils and type things that are sitting [TS]

00:21:01   on people's shoulders and telling them [TS]

00:21:02   what to do it and all kinds of other [TS]

00:21:04   fantastical neat stuff like that and and [TS]

00:21:08   i love that idea that suddenly be [TS]

00:21:10   somebody gets you know thrown into this [TS]

00:21:12   world that they didn't know existed [TS]

00:21:13   that's kind of the heart of the urban [TS]

00:21:15   fantasy thing at least in all of these [TS]

00:21:17   books I've read so far but the part that [TS]

00:21:20   I like the best about this is that [TS]

00:21:22   you've got these people who are cops and [TS]

00:21:24   they have this is basically murder [TS]

00:21:27   mystery going on but it turns out that [TS]

00:21:29   it's some some supernatural force or [TS]

00:21:32   creature or person who committed it so [TS]

00:21:35   they have to use regular old police [TS]

00:21:38   technique you know the whiteboard and [TS]

00:21:40   all that kind of stuff because that's [TS]

00:21:42   really the only weapon that they have [TS]

00:21:43   they don't have any special powers [TS]

00:21:45   they're just able to exist in this world [TS]

00:21:47   and see what's going on so they use you [TS]

00:21:50   know step-by-step feet on the ground [TS]

00:21:52   police work to try to to see what they [TS]

00:21:54   could do against these creatures and I [TS]

00:21:55   think it's a fascinating way to make the [TS]

00:21:57   two worlds intersect and it works it [TS]

00:22:01   works well i think some of the other [TS]

00:22:02   guys have read it to you know I i read [TS]

00:22:04   London falling i have heard the seventh [TS]

00:22:06   streets yet [TS]

00:22:07   and i really like it's really good i [TS]

00:22:09   guess i guess that they're calling this [TS]

00:22:11   the shadow police series but one of the [TS]

00:22:13   things I really like about about this is [TS]

00:22:15   you know again this is the like like the [TS]

00:22:19   been around pitch books that we're gonna [TS]

00:22:22   talk about to today I'm this is it's [TS]

00:22:25   about it [TS]

00:22:28   players like Magical Law Enforcement [TS]

00:22:29   essentially but with the way it works [TS]

00:22:31   here is fascinating you alluded to it [TS]

00:22:33   basically they don't know what they're [TS]

00:22:35   getting into these are just cops they're [TS]

00:22:37   investing they're not magic cops they [TS]

00:22:39   don't start out as magical cops they're [TS]

00:22:41   not the magic police they're just police [TS]

00:22:43   and then there's this accident [TS]

00:22:45   essentially where they're touching [TS]

00:22:46   something they shouldn't and they're all [TS]

00:22:49   given the site they suddenly have vision [TS]

00:22:52   to this entire outer world that they [TS]

00:22:53   didn't have before and they realize this [TS]

00:22:55   crime they're investigating as a mom is [TS]

00:22:57   a much bigger and more magical thing [TS]

00:22:58   that's happening and that's great in so [TS]

00:23:01   many different levels because they have [TS]

00:23:02   to they have to accept that this is true [TS]

00:23:04   they have to try to adapt their policing [TS]

00:23:06   skills it into something that's kind of [TS]

00:23:09   unlike I believe in this book there are [TS]

00:23:11   a few instances where they thinking like [TS]

00:23:14   I could punch this person or something [TS]

00:23:16   like no it's not a person and you can't [TS]

00:23:18   budge it and and so I really like that [TS]

00:23:21   it's accidental and that they're not [TS]

00:23:23   they do sort of end up being the special [TS]

00:23:26   magic squad but it's not because they I [TS]

00:23:29   mean it's and so I guess it's sort of an [TS]

00:23:31   origin story but i really like that they [TS]

00:23:32   have no idea it was an accident and here [TS]

00:23:35   they are and i really i really like i [TS]

00:23:38   really like that about it yeah I like it [TS]

00:23:40   a lot too and i think i think it works [TS]

00:23:42   it works as a police procedural even [TS]

00:23:44   before the magic comes in which i really [TS]

00:23:46   liked that impressed me but also I like [TS]

00:23:49   that they didn't have the you know the [TS]

00:23:52   master of the the sort of tour guide [TS]

00:23:54   kind of character that that anything i [TS]

00:23:57   actually in the rivers of London series [TS]

00:23:59   look there's a little bit of weakness [TS]

00:24:01   that there's this you know old wizard [TS]

00:24:04   Nightingale that is connect is very [TS]

00:24:07   powerful and he keeps happening that to [TS]

00:24:10   find one of which keeps out to find ways [TS]

00:24:12   to get him out of the picture [TS]

00:24:13   all right then and only bring them you [TS]

00:24:16   know and avoid bringing him in to save [TS]

00:24:17   the day and [TS]

00:24:18   that this book it's a lot more [TS]

00:24:19   interesting to see them kind of trying [TS]

00:24:21   to piece piece it together like you said [TS]

00:24:23   like it's it's like the wire with magic [TS]

00:24:25   that actually leads really well into [TS]

00:24:27   what I was about to say which was just [TS]

00:24:29   that I think that that the fact that [TS]

00:24:31   they're just sort of thrown in [TS]

00:24:32   feet-first makes it feels like it's a [TS]

00:24:34   much grittier books in any of the other [TS]

00:24:36   any of the other but fantasies that I've [TS]

00:24:39   read thus far and you get some really [TS]

00:24:42   interesting character development with [TS]

00:24:44   these people because there are four very [TS]

00:24:45   different people and they all have two [TS]

00:24:49   can go through something different in [TS]

00:24:51   order to deal with the emotional [TS]

00:24:53   implications of what it is that they are [TS]

00:24:55   finding out you know but not everybody [TS]

00:24:57   is going to react quite the same when [TS]

00:25:00   they discover that there are no giant [TS]

00:25:02   things roaming the streets that most [TS]

00:25:04   people can't see that there's a it for [TS]

00:25:08   these are for really well-drawn [TS]

00:25:10   characters I mean you u-boat alluded to [TS]

00:25:12   it I i really like that about it and [TS]

00:25:14   yeah it is gritty from the start I it's [TS]

00:25:17   a really great like crime novel and [TS]

00:25:19   you've got a guy who's undercover and [TS]

00:25:21   it's a dirty or not dirty and it's [TS]

00:25:24   really unclear and that's here you're [TS]

00:25:28   you enter with that right now like oh [TS]

00:25:30   what's going on what's going to be I [TS]

00:25:32   thought this was about magic and it's [TS]

00:25:33   only like again the book almost [TS]

00:25:35   accidentally obviously not in reality [TS]

00:25:37   but as you're reading it's like you're [TS]

00:25:39   literally like you're reading a regular [TS]

00:25:40   crime novel but then has a little a [TS]

00:25:42   little mistake happens and then there's [TS]

00:25:44   magic and it's pretty cool [TS]

00:25:46   it is and you know like like a lot of [TS]

00:25:49   good please stories anyway things aren't [TS]

00:25:51   black and white and so these characters [TS]

00:25:53   are trying to deal with their own issues [TS]

00:25:56   about sort of good and evil whether [TS]

00:25:57   they're good or not whether we are [TS]

00:26:01   encountering some true evil and some [TS]

00:26:03   weirdness [TS]

00:26:04   yeah and actually the eye without being [TS]

00:26:08   spoilery about the second book it really [TS]

00:26:10   carries on very well as far as the [TS]

00:26:12   character development it's you know [TS]

00:26:14   there's there's no weird reset button [TS]

00:26:16   and they're not jumped you know I had so [TS]

00:26:18   much farther that you miss some of the [TS]

00:26:20   journey that they've gone on it it it [TS]

00:26:24   does a good job of sort of picking up [TS]

00:26:25   and making it clear that these are still [TS]

00:26:27   the same characters you get get a narc [TS]

00:26:29   I think last I saw on Twitter he's he [TS]

00:26:31   was like I think last week 50,000 words [TS]

00:26:33   into the next book and thought it was [TS]

00:26:35   going pretty well and Paul is the first [TS]

00:26:37   person who will tell you and stuff is [TS]

00:26:38   not going well so that's a good fine [TS]

00:26:40   that's great [TS]

00:26:42   I dan would you like to talk about [TS]

00:26:45   something [TS]

00:26:46   yeah i think i've already mentioned this [TS]

00:26:47   series on the show up but it was way way [TS]

00:26:50   back so i'm going to mention it again [TS]

00:26:51   because it does fall perfectly into this [TS]

00:26:53   category and that is Mike carries Felix [TS]

00:26:56   caster series as I think our co [TS]

00:27:01   occasional co-panelists Tony similar [TS]

00:27:03   pointed out in the chatroom mike carey [TS]

00:27:05   probably better known for his comic book [TS]

00:27:08   writing including Lucifer which is the [TS]

00:27:11   the character I believe first developed [TS]

00:27:12   by Neil Gaiman know the name from ya [TS]

00:27:16   more recently the unwritten written yeah [TS]

00:27:18   and Jack love about our account a [TS]

00:27:20   significant Archon hellblazer John [TS]

00:27:24   Constantine and he's written a bunch of [TS]

00:27:27   he's written a bunch of other stuff so I [TS]

00:27:29   think he's written some x-men stuff too [TS]

00:27:31   so he's quite a talented writer but this [TS]

00:27:33   is one of the I think his only major [TS]

00:27:35   novel series he does recently have a [TS]

00:27:37   novel out under the name mr kerry i [TS]

00:27:40   think but this is a set in London [TS]

00:27:44   it's a very very noir series but instead [TS]

00:27:47   of the main character being a detective [TS]

00:27:50   he's an exorcist and so basically he's a [TS]

00:27:54   freelance sex just for higher he goes [TS]

00:27:56   around and he can get rid of ghosts by [TS]

00:27:59   playing essentially 18 whistle that is [TS]

00:28:03   not the only way to get rid of ghosts [TS]

00:28:04   but Toki does it [TS]

00:28:05   what I really like about this series is [TS]

00:28:07   that it does a great job of lining up [TS]

00:28:09   with sort of your sensibilities fixes [TS]

00:28:11   always he's called fix he's always kinda [TS]

00:28:14   down-on-his-luck he was this big shabby [TS]

00:28:16   overcoat he gets beat up a lot he's not [TS]

00:28:19   particularly you know tougher or like [TS]

00:28:22   heroic really but he always seems to [TS]

00:28:25   find himself in situations where that [TS]

00:28:27   seems to come up there is an ongoing arc [TS]

00:28:30   throughout a bunch of the books about [TS]

00:28:31   one of his his really really good [TS]

00:28:34   friends who is possessed by a very [TS]

00:28:37   powerful demon and then some other [TS]

00:28:39   characters who come in including a [TS]

00:28:41   succubus [TS]

00:28:42   and a bunch of interesting other sort of [TS]

00:28:46   minor characters i think there's a [TS]

00:28:48   zombie who is also a computer expert who [TS]

00:28:50   lives in a like very refrigerated think [TS]

00:28:52   it's like an old movie theater something [TS]

00:28:54   it's very clever it's exceedingly well [TS]

00:28:57   written he is just a fantastic writer [TS]

00:28:59   when it comes to the nuts and bolts of [TS]

00:29:01   putting language together and some of [TS]

00:29:04   the books are more hidden hit-or-miss [TS]

00:29:05   than others but in particular I think [TS]

00:29:08   the last couple and there are five so [TS]

00:29:11   far with the promise of a sixth at some [TS]

00:29:13   indeterminate point feature some of them [TS]

00:29:16   are just incredibly incredibly [TS]

00:29:20   imaginative and really really engrossing [TS]

00:29:24   to the point of you know they're creepy [TS]

00:29:26   they're super creepy he does a great job [TS]

00:29:29   of I I don't really like horror books [TS]

00:29:31   but this is about as close as I'll get [TS]

00:29:33   and they're so there's some stuff in [TS]

00:29:35   there that's that's genuinely disturbing [TS]

00:29:37   and I but all of it is just done with [TS]

00:29:41   such a deft touch and with the times [TS]

00:29:43   incredibly dark humor and it's just [TS]

00:29:47   they're great they're really it's a [TS]

00:29:48   really good series i cannot recommend it [TS]

00:29:50   highly enough it's one of my favorite [TS]

00:29:52   book series from the last you know five [TS]

00:29:54   or six years and hearing the obvious are [TS]

00:29:57   googling around as we're like 36 book [TS]

00:29:59   coming out because i keep hearing rumors [TS]

00:30:00   about it and it sounds like there might [TS]

00:30:03   be some indeterminate point future so [TS]

00:30:05   this has become my new my replacement [TS]

00:30:07   for Scott Lynch and patrick rothfuss is [TS]

00:30:09   the white whale of mine i'm waiting for [TS]

00:30:11   this book to come out it will never come [TS]

00:30:13   out but i'm waiting so I I it sounds [TS]

00:30:16   like a lot of people in red which is [TS]

00:30:17   that which is a shame because it's so [TS]

00:30:19   good i say get the to a bookstore [TS]

00:30:23   immediately for the devil you know by my [TS]

00:30:26   carry yeah okay alright that's strong [TS]

00:30:30   recommendation [TS]

00:30:30   um let me them throw out another book [TS]

00:30:34   that I think maybe all of us of Red [TS]

00:30:36   Rivers London but been around a bitch [TS]

00:30:39   that's his name [TS]

00:30:40   yeah which apparently is called midnight [TS]

00:30:42   riot in the US which seems totally wrong [TS]

00:30:45   I don't understand that makes no more [TS]

00:30:47   sense to me than the actual title in [TS]

00:30:49   fact the capital is quite a bit better [TS]

00:30:50   so I don't really [TS]

00:30:51   it passed well I i can tell i can tell [TS]

00:30:54   you why I think they did it because I [TS]

00:30:56   was stupid Americans like you know [TS]

00:30:58   action and fighting and stuff and rivers [TS]

00:31:00   of London first of all that's foreign [TS]

00:31:02   Americans don't always take kindly to [TS]

00:31:04   that and then you also you know there is [TS]

00:31:06   a scene that's the riot sort of thing in [TS]

00:31:09   the book like us just one whereas you [TS]

00:31:12   actually have rivers of London kind of [TS]

00:31:13   throughout the book yes that's a much [TS]

00:31:15   better to i was i was just kind of [TS]

00:31:17   incensed by that so it got really mad [TS]

00:31:20   there's controversy about the cover too [TS]

00:31:21   because they give this you know black [TS]

00:31:23   man and shadow holding a gun and the [TS]

00:31:27   beginning so what exactly have you left [TS]

00:31:28   but by the way you know the constables [TS]

00:31:31   do not carry go yeah i was going to say [TS]

00:31:32   I I didn't see the cover because i read [TS]

00:31:34   it as a kindle book but that is [TS]

00:31:36   hilarious [TS]

00:31:37   yeah that is a terrible the original [TS]

00:31:39   cover you can see his face and see that [TS]

00:31:41   he was a black them but they did this [TS]

00:31:42   like silhouette and it just I'm just I'm [TS]

00:31:45   so amused by the carrying of a gun when [TS]

00:31:47   most British British police officers to [TS]

00:31:50   carry it so here so an image doing [TS]

00:31:53   research on midnight riot on google and [TS]

00:31:55   you will be irritated yeah so uh so [TS]

00:31:58   David alluded to it here which is this [TS]

00:31:59   this is a this is a story about a [TS]

00:32:01   different way that this gets set up [TS]

00:32:04   right this is this is about how there's [TS]

00:32:06   basically like there's basically no [TS]

00:32:10   magic or at least we think there's no [TS]

00:32:11   magic and then there's this guy Peter [TS]

00:32:15   Grant who who who meets a ghost and has [TS]

00:32:20   uh has magical ability and he basically [TS]

00:32:24   gets taken under the wing of an old like [TS]

00:32:28   that you get the sense like one of the [TS]

00:32:30   last old Wizards who is really grumpy [TS]

00:32:33   and basically says i'm gonna i'm going [TS]

00:32:37   to teach you about magic stuff and i'm [TS]

00:32:38   going to open this world to you so [TS]

00:32:40   unlike the the paul cornell book where [TS]

00:32:42   the people just sort of have to learn [TS]

00:32:44   about it when there's this accident here [TS]

00:32:47   he's being let in on a secret but what I [TS]

00:32:49   like about it is it's not quite harry [TS]

00:32:51   potter where he's led him on an active [TS]

00:32:53   world that he's now a part of its more [TS]

00:32:56   like he's stumbling in and the party's [TS]

00:32:58   over and and he's now this oddity where [TS]

00:33:02   he's like the last guy left is still [TS]

00:33:04   there and he's like our [TS]

00:33:05   and I guess I'll pass this to you now [TS]

00:33:06   and I thought that was really cool and [TS]

00:33:09   then there's also the dynamic of he's a [TS]

00:33:11   he's a young black detective and are [TS]

00:33:16   blatant black policeman and then there's [TS]

00:33:18   this old white man and so you know he's [TS]

00:33:20   dealing with [TS]

00:33:21   he's dealing with their race issues in [TS]

00:33:23   the women in the city and the police [TS]

00:33:25   department [TS]

00:33:26   it's a it's a fascinating a rich set up [TS]

00:33:30   where and you really read for the guy [TS]

00:33:32   also because he's bringing modernity [TS]

00:33:34   into this old building that they have [TS]

00:33:36   that the musty old building with the [TS]

00:33:37   kind of undead cook who lives there and [TS]

00:33:44   electronics don't work in the building [TS]

00:33:46   so we end up living in the horse stable [TS]

00:33:49   which is a garage and he's got his TV [TS]

00:33:52   out their home [TS]

00:33:54   it's just I love the setting of this [TS]

00:33:55   that because it's done that way and [TS]

00:33:57   you're right you do have this figure who [TS]

00:34:01   knows everything and can and and he gets [TS]

00:34:03   taken he gets put in the hospital in one [TS]

00:34:05   book i think and he's like he's taken [TS]

00:34:06   off the board in many times so that so [TS]

00:34:09   that peter grant doesn't know what he [TS]

00:34:10   has to do but what I really liked i [TS]

00:34:13   really like this setting and then you [TS]

00:34:15   know it is it is a cop story this is all [TS]

00:34:17   detectives and and medical investigators [TS]

00:34:20   and I'll i really like that about it [TS]

00:34:24   that again we're really i mean really it [TS]

00:34:27   is the magic cops this is like literally [TS]

00:34:28   he's discovered that there were magic [TS]

00:34:30   cops and he might become the the last [TS]

00:34:32   magic cop [TS]

00:34:33   yeah it's interesting because he comes [TS]

00:34:35   into you know an institution that [TS]

00:34:37   already exists which is different for [TS]

00:34:39   the shadow Canyon and i like that you [TS]

00:34:41   know they are using hard-boiled police [TS]

00:34:44   methods to try to track down mystical [TS]

00:34:47   killers he is starting to learn magic [TS]

00:34:50   and you know bringing that in he's [TS]

00:34:52   actually applying scientific principles [TS]

00:34:54   to the study of magic figure it out as [TS]

00:34:57   much as he can and i think i really like [TS]

00:35:00   that aspect of the book because I as a [TS]

00:35:02   reader i'm very curious about we know [TS]

00:35:04   how does this magic work but what makes [TS]

00:35:06   it tick so I like the fact that this [TS]

00:35:07   main character who the books is actually [TS]

00:35:09   in first person so it's told [TS]

00:35:11   specifically from the point of view of [TS]

00:35:12   peter grant so I like the fact that we [TS]

00:35:14   get in his head and and that he has a [TS]

00:35:16   lot of the same curiosity that I do [TS]

00:35:18   as a reader because that's exactly what [TS]

00:35:20   i would do and that he's and he's a [TS]

00:35:22   giant nerd too i mean that's the case [TS]

00:35:24   like this like there's all these [TS]

00:35:26   references to pop culture things I i [TS]

00:35:28   love that if there is a later book which [TS]

00:35:31   involves some stuff happening literally [TS]

00:35:33   underground and he makes multiple [TS]

00:35:35   references to these particular magical [TS]

00:35:37   beings he encounters as being [TS]

00:35:39   earthbenders which isn't avatar the last [TS]

00:35:41   airbender veterans and I was like this [TS]

00:35:43   is amazing [TS]

00:35:44   you pick these indirect us and there's [TS]

00:35:46   harry potter references i feel like in [TS]

00:35:48   among other things that are kind of like [TS]

00:35:49   top because that is that is how you [TS]

00:35:52   would deal with it right if you were [TS]

00:35:53   like if you existed in our world and you [TS]

00:35:56   encountered this stuff that was [TS]

00:35:57   otherworldly the only way you would sort [TS]

00:35:58   of be able to wrap your mind around it [TS]

00:36:00   was like okay I guess this is kind of [TS]

00:36:02   like these fantasy books that I liked [TS]

00:36:04   and in that sense Peter it makes Peter [TS]

00:36:06   incredibly approachable and incredibly [TS]

00:36:09   you feel very sympathetic to him because [TS]

00:36:12   you're you're sort of processing [TS]

00:36:14   everything the same way that he is and [TS]

00:36:16   maybe it's to be expected but I lost [TS]

00:36:18   track of how many doctor who references [TS]

00:36:20   their work is red i am in the middle [TS]

00:36:22   yeah fifth book right now fourth book [TS]

00:36:25   whichever is the most recent one the [TS]

00:36:26   analytic with fifth one is out yeah [TS]

00:36:29   that's one that comes out in January ok [TS]

00:36:30   so in the middle of the fourth book [TS]

00:36:31   right now and there's a Linda with a [TS]

00:36:33   wide Joe click that's how deep that so [TS]

00:36:35   deepest doctor who cuts are well that's [TS]

00:36:38   so deep I don't even get it it's from [TS]

00:36:40   one episode yeah it's it's a very little [TS]

00:36:43   very specific reference David go ahead [TS]

00:36:45   what you're going to say I was gonna see [TS]

00:36:47   I mean he's got a great voice to and he [TS]

00:36:50   he's a probationary please constable the [TS]

00:36:52   beginning so he's he's still trying to [TS]

00:36:53   make his way in the police force and [TS]

00:36:57   then now he's got this new wrinkle of [TS]

00:36:58   trying to figure out this this magic [TS]

00:37:00   which hurting hurts his career [TS]

00:37:02   essentially right because you can have [TS]

00:37:03   on this crappy magic the guy no heat [TS]

00:37:07   he didn't really think he was destined [TS]

00:37:08   for greatness but i think it's um it's a [TS]

00:37:12   really funny book 2 i'm going to [TS]

00:37:14   actually laugh-out-loud funny sometimes [TS]

00:37:15   so I think it's very enjoyable the only [TS]

00:37:18   thing that worries me about it is it is [TS]

00:37:21   i'm ready to fall into that trap like [TS]

00:37:22   you know true blood you know where it's [TS]

00:37:25   you know sort of like oh this time it's [TS]

00:37:28   a big Estella meet the werewolf now it's [TS]

00:37:30   happening still met the mummy [TS]

00:37:31   you know it's it's it is exploring this [TS]

00:37:34   magical world and i think that the river [TS]

00:37:36   part is so unique and actually think [TS]

00:37:38   they did a good job with the vampires [TS]

00:37:40   that which there's a reference yes the [TS]

00:37:42   Empire's they're not central but i just [TS]

00:37:44   want i'm hoping that they don't go down [TS]

00:37:46   the road you know that he doesn't get on [TS]

00:37:47   a road of having him constantly you know [TS]

00:37:49   finding oh yeah and actually fairies are [TS]

00:37:51   real and werewolves are real just went [TS]

00:37:53   out for his world so I was fine ass [TS]

00:37:56   comment I know Erika said she's part way [TS]

00:37:58   through the fourth book is to have two [TS]

00:38:00   other people read most of the series all [TS]

00:38:02   this you can only read the first two [TS]

00:38:04   okay i won't say yes I've read all for [TS]

00:38:06   the first four and i will say that the [TS]

00:38:09   there the overarching plot that sort of [TS]

00:38:11   like goes through them gets stronger and [TS]

00:38:13   stronger and you know without giving [TS]

00:38:16   away too much [TS]

00:38:17   there's some major stuff it's part of [TS]

00:38:19   the end of the reason but really stick [TS]

00:38:22   with it stay with it gets it gets [TS]

00:38:24   interesting [TS]

00:38:25   it's worth it's definitely we're [TS]

00:38:26   sticking with it because its stories [TS]

00:38:28   yeah there's some really good stuff is [TS]

00:38:29   really good characters yeah i mean you [TS]

00:38:31   mention the rivers I mean rivers London [TS]

00:38:32   that one of the things I really like [TS]

00:38:34   about this setting to is that unless we [TS]

00:38:35   talked about the underground and things [TS]

00:38:37   like that here the geography of London [TS]

00:38:39   is definitely a character and is [TS]

00:38:42   relevant but it's relevant in a [TS]

00:38:43   different way in the sense that the [TS]

00:38:44   magic is all based on the geography so [TS]

00:38:47   the rivers the there are there the gods [TS]

00:38:51   of the rivers of London our powers and [TS]

00:38:55   in fact there's a great scene in the [TS]

00:38:57   first book where they flee the city and [TS]

00:39:00   it's like once they're out of the city [TS]

00:39:02   they're safe they until they go back in [TS]

00:39:04   the city and they're not safe again [TS]

00:39:05   because the power doesn't extend beyond [TS]

00:39:08   the city and in fact different parts of [TS]

00:39:10   the city are ruled by different you know [TS]

00:39:12   beings that have these elemental powers [TS]

00:39:15   that spring from and it's nice because [TS]

00:39:18   it brings from the history of before [TS]

00:39:19   there was even a city here there were [TS]

00:39:21   these elemental beings with that were in [TS]

00:39:24   the rivers and in the trees and whatever [TS]

00:39:25   and I really like that I thought that [TS]

00:39:27   was an interesting spin on it that's [TS]

00:39:29   that's kind of where a lot of this magic [TS]

00:39:30   comes from and and you know you've got [TS]

00:39:33   these these kind of bosses are like mob [TS]

00:39:36   bosses of magic but that their turf is [TS]

00:39:38   their turf because of the geography not [TS]

00:39:41   they haven't staked out the geography [TS]

00:39:43   they literally like are the geography [TS]

00:39:45   that's their turf I think that's a [TS]

00:39:46   really cool spin on it [TS]

00:39:49   yeah I noticed he spends a lot of time [TS]

00:39:50   describing more than any of these other [TS]

00:39:53   books describing the the geography in [TS]

00:39:55   the streets in the layout and stuff and [TS]

00:39:57   and also the architecture there's more [TS]

00:39:59   description of buildings and room and [TS]

00:40:01   then I think in any other book I've ever [TS]

00:40:03   read that it actually wasn't what you [TS]

00:40:05   think of the Horrible's because like the [TS]

00:40:07   Horrible's I this book be pulling a map [TS]

00:40:10   of London and even historical maps of [TS]

00:40:12   London and I love map so it's rather [TS]

00:40:15   look at map of London than a map of [TS]

00:40:17   middle-earth so I like the fact that the [TS]

00:40:19   real places you can look up [TS]

00:40:21   yeah I I had a dog um I think this [TS]

00:40:23   actually gets reused a reuse i think in [TS]

00:40:26   one of the books there's a description [TS]

00:40:28   of a playhouse that is basically a fake [TS]

00:40:31   house that's like this is the third book [TS]

00:40:34   yeah but it's also used in the most [TS]

00:40:36   recent sherlock series there's this [TS]

00:40:39   yeah I where there's like the fake [TS]

00:40:41   houses that have the facades but are [TS]

00:40:42   sort of basically built over you the [TS]

00:40:44   underground essentially but that was [TS]

00:40:47   really cool i don't know I remember when [TS]

00:40:48   I got to that part of your life as a [TS]

00:40:49   couple i know about these things I read [TS]

00:40:50   about the minute book I did exactly the [TS]

00:40:52   opposite because I'd already seen that [TS]

00:40:54   Sherlock by the time i read the book and [TS]

00:40:55   I was like oh I have a picture of this [TS]

00:40:57   in my head now because I know what [TS]

00:40:58   cool i like this series a lot this is so [TS]

00:41:01   we should say we we we mentioned this [TS]

00:41:04   before but we should say it so been [TS]

00:41:06   around a bitch was the script editor of [TS]

00:41:09   Doctor Who I think that briefly was he [TS]

00:41:11   was he not in the eighties worked he was [TS]

00:41:13   not the script editor but he worked [TS]

00:41:15   closely with andrew Cartmell right [TS]

00:41:17   Hartnell master plan yeah which [TS]

00:41:19   apparently been around which had a lot [TS]

00:41:21   lot to do with even though there was no [TS]

00:41:22   actual master plan so I so well but and [TS]

00:41:25   that's for dr. pockets been around [TS]

00:41:27   virginia where he wrote the 25th [TS]

00:41:28   anniversary episode of doctor who [TS]

00:41:31   essentially he did not the 25th [TS]

00:41:33   anniversary episode sucked [TS]

00:41:36   he wrote remembrance of the Daleks which [TS]

00:41:38   should have been the 25th anniversary [TS]

00:41:40   episode it would have worked much better [TS]

00:41:41   with silver nemesis consider the 25th [TS]

00:41:43   anniversary of yeah it is it had the you [TS]

00:41:45   know that the budget in the fanfare [TS]

00:41:47   sorry doctor who talk but I don't even [TS]

00:41:49   think of that is that because because [TS]

00:41:50   because remembrance of the Daleks which [TS]

00:41:51   is considered actually one of the [TS]

00:41:52   highlights of the last 15 years of the [TS]

00:41:54   show 10 years of the show [TS]

00:41:56   oh yeah [TS]

00:41:56   is set at the place where the first [TS]

00:42:00   episode is set of Doctor Who and it's in [TS]

00:42:02   this 25th anniversary season and it's [TS]

00:42:05   got the Daleks in it and it's very much [TS]

00:42:07   a nostalgic referential episode 2 1963 [TS]

00:42:13   better and better on this road that so [TS]

00:42:15   so he comes from and where is Paul [TS]

00:42:17   Cornell was a fan and then wrote a bunch [TS]

00:42:19   of novels and then wrote a bunch of [TS]

00:42:20   episodes in the russell t davies Sarah [TS]

00:42:22   of the new series but these are both [TS]

00:42:24   novels that we've talked about and then [TS]

00:42:26   Neil Gaiman you know has written some [TS]

00:42:27   stuff during the Stephen montara so [TS]

00:42:28   there's a lot of Doctor Who going around [TS]

00:42:29   in here actually wanted to bring up like [TS]

00:42:31   just a little connection with the in [TS]

00:42:33   addition to remember the Daleks he also [TS]

00:42:35   wrote battle battlefield but i'm pretty [TS]

00:42:37   sure it's in remembrance of the Daleks [TS]

00:42:38   that you actually get something was kind [TS]

00:42:42   of interesting for doctor who at the [TS]

00:42:43   time which was bringing race relations [TS]

00:42:45   into it a little bit and having some you [TS]

00:42:47   know a couple of scenes to do with black [TS]

00:42:50   characters and the write-up how [TS]

00:42:52   somewhere where they were you know said [TS]

00:42:54   no coloreds on the the door on the [TS]

00:42:56   outside it the doctors companion got all [TS]

00:42:58   upset so I thought it was very [TS]

00:42:59   interesting that you know one of the few [TS]

00:43:01   writers to really bring that to the four [TS]

00:43:03   back in the eighties and doctor who then [TS]

00:43:05   has this series of books that actually [TS]

00:43:07   has a black main character and you know [TS]

00:43:10   you you see the world from their point [TS]

00:43:11   of view and get get a little bit of how [TS]

00:43:13   how Leonard has changed since 1963 and [TS]

00:43:16   and how in some cases maybe it hasn't [TS]

00:43:18   am i right in remembering actually that [TS]

00:43:19   he's half black and half white [TS]

00:43:21   I think his father's white he always [TS]

00:43:25   have like in half [TS]

00:43:26   I don't remember what it was because his [TS]

00:43:28   mother is actually African in the but [TS]

00:43:30   his dad's I thought she had lost in his [TS]

00:43:32   dad's a jazz musician from me I funny i [TS]

00:43:36   think is why you I think he's described [TS]

00:43:38   as half black and half white yeah [TS]

00:43:39   interesting because I I thought that [TS]

00:43:41   came up as an issue [TS]

00:43:42   yeah i thought it came up as an issue [TS]

00:43:44   and you know like in terms of again the [TS]

00:43:45   race relations being interesting part of [TS]

00:43:47   this like even has it a little tougher [TS]

00:43:48   in some cases because that you know [TS]

00:43:50   consider being a mixed heritage is is [TS]

00:43:52   very challenging there so I always [TS]

00:43:54   thought that was an interesting an [TS]

00:43:56   interesting aspect of his carrier it's [TS]

00:43:59   definitely a big part of the flavor of [TS]

00:44:01   the books and one of the things i like [TS]

00:44:02   about the second book is the you know [TS]

00:44:05   the fact that it's I mean it's like the [TS]

00:44:07   mystery of the Jazz vampires [TS]

00:44:09   his sort of could have been the title of [TS]

00:44:11   it which is hilarious and yet it's you [TS]

00:44:13   know as silly as that sounds it's really [TS]

00:44:15   cool and it's a really fun story and and [TS]

00:44:18   i like how the universe expands this is [TS]

00:44:20   one of those things where you can't wait [TS]

00:44:21   to read the first book in the series you [TS]

00:44:23   don't know whether the universe is going [TS]

00:44:25   to expand or whether [TS]

00:44:26   what-you-see-is-what-you-get and it's [TS]

00:44:27   gonna be like this from here on out and [TS]

00:44:29   with this series you know in the first [TS]

00:44:31   book you get there's this old guy and [TS]

00:44:33   he's the last wizard left so he's going [TS]

00:44:35   to teach you and the second book they go [TS]

00:44:37   visit another guy and they visit [TS]

00:44:40   essentially a place that's like it was [TS]

00:44:43   Hogwarts but now it's empty and nobody's [TS]

00:44:46   been there since what like since world [TS]

00:44:48   war two and you get the sense that [TS]

00:44:51   there's a really awful history about why [TS]

00:44:54   there aren't any Wizards anymore and [TS]

00:44:56   that's amazing that blew me away because [TS]

00:44:58   it's like oh this is what i thought this [TS]

00:45:00   is a much bigger story about why the the [TS]

00:45:03   magicians are absent and then there's [TS]

00:45:05   that follow-up that you know you you let [TS]

00:45:08   you learn that maybe they're not absent [TS]

00:45:09   and that's really great too so it's a [TS]

00:45:12   it's a great it's a great way with the [TS]

00:45:14   universe expands over time as the books [TS]

00:45:16   go along and i really like some of the [TS]

00:45:17   secondary characters that they bring [TS]

00:45:19   into I mean like you know you've got [TS]

00:45:20   Molly who is nightingales us [TS]

00:45:25   I don't even know what that says keep on [TS]

00:45:27   a semi undead to marry the house and I [TS]

00:45:31   my favorite character who is actually [TS]

00:45:33   the the doctor that they call on who is [TS]

00:45:36   basically like just really interested in [TS]

00:45:40   how magic affects people i think he's [TS]

00:45:42   described as being he's of it you know [TS]

00:45:45   Arabic descent Arabian descent but he's [TS]

00:45:48   Scottish i believe [TS]

00:45:49   yeah it's just such a great i mean again [TS]

00:45:51   sort of playing with all these different [TS]

00:45:52   like it's just you know this is this is [TS]

00:45:54   the how things go and I just I really [TS]

00:45:56   enjoy their interactions that the this a [TS]

00:45:59   magic set up reminded me a little bit of [TS]

00:46:02   Jonathan strange and mr morale i don't [TS]

00:46:04   know if you guys have read that by Susan [TS]

00:46:05   Clark really good book i think we [TS]

00:46:07   mention that on a book club too and [TS]

00:46:10   they're making a TV mini-series out of [TS]

00:46:11   that I believe but um but that's a that [TS]

00:46:16   that's set in the past that setting the [TS]

00:46:18   19th century but but it reminds me of [TS]

00:46:20   this in the sense that there's this [TS]

00:46:21   question like well what there was magic [TS]

00:46:22   did it go [TS]

00:46:23   way is it still there is a coming back [TS]

00:46:26   it had a little bit of that feel to it [TS]

00:46:28   but in the modern modern day and that [TS]

00:46:30   book so they're actually making TV [TS]

00:46:32   series out of rivers of 12 I think it's [TS]

00:46:34   the same people that are making the [TS]

00:46:36   other TV series i think the two options [TS]

00:46:38   it [TS]

00:46:38   I'm a little nervous about how this is [TS]

00:46:39   going to work as a TV series i hope it [TS]

00:46:41   doesn't you know that they do it well [TS]

00:46:43   they're gonna have to recast it well to [TS]

00:46:45   keep that cleverness and not just become [TS]

00:46:48   another you know doctor who like gonna [TS]

00:46:50   show so the guy who wrote the most [TS]

00:46:52   recent most recent episode of doctor who [TS]

00:46:55   is the guy who is adapting it o.o he [TS]

00:46:57   wrote it down or kill the moon [TS]

00:46:58   yeah the guy roadkill the moon is [TS]

00:47:01   actually the guy who who is doing the [TS]

00:47:04   writing of the TV adaptation and Toby [TS]

00:47:06   Haynes is a doctor who director is [TS]

00:47:08   directing it will be interesting to me [TS]

00:47:10   yeah okay now I'm secret that i didn't [TS]

00:47:12   know wow that was some pretty obscure [TS]

00:47:15   nerding out yes that is a good director [TS]

00:47:17   he is it gonna look even more than a [TS]

00:47:19   little dreamy i will not enough fair [TS]

00:47:23   enough [TS]

00:47:23   I yeah so if you wonder if you like your [TS]

00:47:25   directors dreamy dots on experience and [TS]

00:47:28   mr. good [TS]

00:47:29   yes and good and he's a very good [TS]

00:47:31   director um actually i want to mention [TS]

00:47:34   the the the neuronic series with that [TS]

00:47:38   setup of the there is an institution [TS]

00:47:40   that magic is involved with i'm reminded [TS]

00:47:44   me of another book that we've covered on [TS]

00:47:45   the show but i wanted to mention again [TS]

00:47:47   because it's so good [TS]

00:47:49   which is the rook by Daniel O'Malley [TS]

00:47:51   which is similarly a book set in London [TS]

00:47:55   involving a minute a magical agency this [TS]

00:47:58   one staffed up it doesn't have empty you [TS]

00:48:01   know empty buildings that used to be [TS]

00:48:02   where they talk train people [TS]

00:48:04   this one's fully staffed but that's a [TS]

00:48:06   that's a fantastic book about the [TS]

00:48:08   magical bureaucracy that is like the [TS]

00:48:09   layer below the actual burger ah cracy [TS]

00:48:13   in London and if anybody out there [TS]

00:48:15   hasn't read the brook you got to read [TS]

00:48:17   the book is one of the most fun books [TS]

00:48:19   that i read in the last 10 years [TS]

00:48:20   probably [TS]

00:48:21   man I'm coming away with this with will [TS]

00:48:23   take away more homework for this but you [TS]

00:48:26   don't have to cram this stuff because we [TS]

00:48:27   are not talking about it on the podcast [TS]

00:48:29   you just get your ledger [TS]

00:48:31   you can read but the ruckus so good so [TS]

00:48:32   good speaking of i see how the [TS]

00:48:36   the rivers of London universe sort of [TS]

00:48:38   opened up a little bit with some of this [TS]

00:48:40   magical police back story without giving [TS]

00:48:43   too much away mostly because I can't [TS]

00:48:44   because I don't know yet that actually [TS]

00:48:46   happens in the shadow police a little [TS]

00:48:47   bit to you find out that there might [TS]

00:48:49   have been some some previous law [TS]

00:48:52   enforcement that was somehow related to [TS]

00:48:54   the magical realms in London but even by [TS]

00:48:58   the end of the second book I i still [TS]

00:48:59   don't have a clear picture that which is [TS]

00:49:01   one of the reasons i'm really excited [TS]

00:49:02   for the third book to count [TS]

00:49:04   yeah I like that sense that you know [TS]

00:49:05   this been i mean that's that's one of [TS]

00:49:07   the things about magic but that I think [TS]

00:49:08   you get that you don't science fiction [TS]

00:49:10   stories often it's like this the first [TS]

00:49:11   time this has ever happened what are we [TS]

00:49:12   going to do and magic stories it's very [TS]

00:49:14   much like this has all happened before [TS]

00:49:16   right [TS]

00:49:17   it's like you you only discovered it now [TS]

00:49:19   but these are ancient powers that you [TS]

00:49:21   are you only only know you people are [TS]

00:49:23   realizing are still around and it gives [TS]

00:49:25   you that just like knowing that there [TS]

00:49:27   are subway stations that are in the [TS]

00:49:28   ground unused having that idea like [TS]

00:49:31   there is knowledge from the past that's [TS]

00:49:33   only now being on earth because it's [TS]

00:49:34   just add that little creepy like whoo [TS]

00:49:36   it's exciting when rivers of one also [TS]

00:49:38   has that great the Nazis were doing this [TS]

00:49:41   20 yeah you're trying to do this and [TS]

00:49:44   they haven't they haven't fully explored [TS]

00:49:45   that story which i think is really kind [TS]

00:49:47   of brilliant that the every book just [TS]

00:49:49   reveals a little bit more about what [TS]

00:49:50   happened world war two and what impact [TS]

00:49:52   that had on the magical world [TS]

00:49:54   yeah like there's a magic manhattan [TS]

00:49:56   project almost and a magic arms race and [TS]

00:49:58   it was devastating [TS]

00:50:00   apparently which is this is the [TS]

00:50:01   aftermath that Peter Grant walks into [TS]

00:50:03   which is just really it's very cool [TS]

00:50:05   stuff [TS]

00:50:06   let's take another brief break for a [TS]

00:50:08   visit from sponsor you know these guys [TS]

00:50:11   but they've got big news [TS]

00:50:13   our sponsor is Squarespace now people on [TS]

00:50:17   podcasts been talking about Squarespace [TS]

00:50:18   for a while but big stuff is happening [TS]

00:50:21   Squarespace just came out with a [TS]

00:50:22   brand-new version it's called [TS]

00:50:24   Squarespace seven and it makes [TS]

00:50:26   everything simpler and easier to use [TS]

00:50:28   while retaining the power and complexity [TS]

00:50:31   of the squarespace platform that you [TS]

00:50:33   already know and love [TS]

00:50:35   Squarespace seven refines all the [TS]

00:50:36   powerful features from Squarespace 6 [TS]

00:50:38   into one seamless unified experience [TS]

00:50:41   they've uncluttered your workspace they [TS]

00:50:43   have simplified the whole website making [TS]

00:50:45   process by letting you add content and [TS]

00:50:48   customize your design [TS]

00:50:49   all in one window you're going to spend [TS]

00:50:52   less time building your sights and more [TS]

00:50:54   time doing the stuff you love for a free [TS]

00:50:56   trial and ten percent off go to [TS]

00:50:59   squarespace.com and use this offer code [TS]

00:51:02   smell sent me i like that that's like a [TS]

00:51:05   secret agent code a really bad one [TS]

00:51:07   because it reveals my name but let's say [TS]

00:51:10   my name is code named smell sent me is [TS]

00:51:13   your offer code for ten percent off and [TS]

00:51:15   a free trial some great new features and [TS]

00:51:17   Squarespace seven like cover pages [TS]

00:51:19   sometimes you just need a simple page to [TS]

00:51:21   communicate your personal brand promote [TS]

00:51:23   a new product announce your latest album [TS]

00:51:24   i know you're listening famous rock [TS]

00:51:27   stars with cover pages you get all the [TS]

00:51:29   power Squarespace on a single beautiful [TS]

00:51:31   page highly designed Squarespace is also [TS]

00:51:34   partnered with getty images to bring you [TS]

00:51:36   integration with getting images that [TS]

00:51:37   gives you access to more than 40 million [TS]

00:51:40   professional stock photographs that [TS]

00:51:42   normally cost hundreds or thousands of [TS]

00:51:44   dollars per image they're available for [TS]

00:51:46   just ten dollars an image inside [TS]

00:51:48   Squarespace they've also got these great [TS]

00:51:50   new tastemaker templates now what is [TS]

00:51:53   that [TS]

00:51:54   Squarespace is working with leaders in [TS]

00:51:56   various fields cool musicians artists [TS]

00:51:58   architects chefs to develop new [TS]

00:52:00   templates that cater to those [TS]

00:52:02   professions so that you can use the same [TS]

00:52:05   kinds of designs and some of these [TS]

00:52:06   incredibly successful and influential [TS]

00:52:08   people to solve problems that you've got [TS]

00:52:10   in your life and customize them all you [TS]

00:52:13   want to make them your own [TS]

00:52:14   so again get started today with a free [TS]

00:52:16   trial you don't need to give them your [TS]

00:52:18   credit card you can start building your [TS]

00:52:19   website right now and when you sign up [TS]

00:52:22   for Squarespace be sure to use the offer [TS]

00:52:24   code Snell sent me to get ten percent [TS]

00:52:27   off and show your support for the [TS]

00:52:28   incomparable so thank you very much to [TS]

00:52:30   squarespace for your continued support [TS]

00:52:32   of podcasting and the uncomfortable [TS]

00:52:34   Squarespace a better web starts with [TS]

00:52:37   your website [TS]

00:52:39   what other what other one other stuff [TS]

00:52:42   you guys have any any other books in [TS]

00:52:44   this category that you want to throw out [TS]

00:52:45   there and i recommend think I think I [TS]

00:52:48   already recommend and no I might be kind [TS]

00:52:51   of a digression but the go for man i [TS]

00:52:53   recommended a couple weeks ago I think [TS]

00:52:55   my urban turban fancy book that i read [TS]

00:52:57   this hot actually said in London but in [TS]

00:52:59   Chicago [TS]

00:53:00   that's pretty much the same not let Cole [TS]

00:53:02   the iron but it's a regular in that it's [TS]

00:53:05   an urban fantasy and it's it's deals [TS]

00:53:08   with a you know detective whose me is [TS]

00:53:11   also in this case a ferry from the you [TS]

00:53:14   know the Fae realms solving crime that's [TS]

00:53:18   magical reloaded so we give that another [TS]

00:53:21   another nut job because I thought the [TS]

00:53:23   first one was really good and I think [TS]

00:53:24   there's a couple more books coming in [TS]

00:53:25   that series nice yeah if we're going to [TS]

00:53:29   forget a stray a little bit i will have [TS]

00:53:31   to mention 10 powers declare which part [TS]

00:53:34   of it takes place in London so I think [TS]

00:53:36   it counts but it's a it's if you don't [TS]

00:53:39   have any of you have read that but it's [TS]

00:53:40   a no like a lock are a book it's one of [TS]

00:53:43   my all-time favorite books actually [TS]

00:53:44   because especially since i came to it [TS]

00:53:46   after i was reading all these spy books [TS]

00:53:47   and then you read this one and it [TS]

00:53:50   actually every the characters in her [TS]

00:53:53   real are actually in the place that they [TS]

00:53:56   were that day in history he does helpful [TS]

00:54:00   but at the same time he's got all this [TS]

00:54:03   crazy explanations of the whole Cold War [TS]

00:54:07   struggle is actually being around genies [TS]

00:54:10   in Arabia so i recommend that one and it [TS]

00:54:14   does have you know some of the the kind [TS]

00:54:16   of London the car a kind of stuff so [TS]

00:54:19   what was the name is category declare [TS]

00:54:22   declared by 10 powers you probably heard [TS]

00:54:24   of oh yeah after is in yeah that [TS]

00:54:27   actually you mentioned Jeannie i'll [TS]

00:54:29   throw out another appt look we talk [TS]

00:54:31   about four episodes of The Golem and the [TS]

00:54:33   genie by Helene Wecker that is set in [TS]

00:54:36   New York and is very much a an immigrant [TS]

00:54:38   story but just as the syrian immigrants [TS]

00:54:41   and the Jewish immigrants come to New [TS]

00:54:43   York so too does golem and a genie and [TS]

00:54:46   then the fun begins [TS]

00:54:47   and it's a really awesome book we've got [TS]

00:54:49   we've got a little bit more time so [TS]

00:54:51   which is rare for us so before we go I [TS]

00:54:53   thought I would go around and ask that [TS]

00:54:54   same question which I always phrases [TS]

00:54:57   what are you reading but it's really [TS]

00:54:58   like what have you read lately has been [TS]

00:54:59   something that you've read lately [TS]

00:55:01   other than what we talked about tonight [TS]

00:55:02   that you want to plug you want to throw [TS]

00:55:05   out there some book that you've been [TS]

00:55:06   reading that that you in general that [TS]

00:55:08   any subject that you think would be [TS]

00:55:09   worth talking about dan got anything [TS]

00:55:12   yeah I in fact I'd forgotten that i was [TS]

00:55:15   reading this [TS]

00:55:15   cuz i put it down to read the UH the [TS]

00:55:18   experience and then what you get for [TS]

00:55:20   before five hundred folks is a 500-page [TS]

00:55:23   books later I was like oh yeah i was [TS]

00:55:24   reading this before [TS]

00:55:25   yeah which is the the latest book by [TS]

00:55:29   Nick Harkaway called tigerman oh yeah [TS]

00:55:31   man I i love Nick Harkaway i really i [TS]

00:55:34   really do love Day card way although [TS]

00:55:37   i've been following its slow descent [TS]

00:55:38   into madness on twitter because I think [TS]

00:55:39   his wife left him with their kids if [TS]

00:55:41   it's like it's very tech yeah poor guy i [TS]

00:55:44   offered to send a beer whiskey and he [TS]

00:55:46   politely declined so his most recent [TS]

00:55:49   book is Tiger man i specifically avoided [TS]

00:55:53   reading anything about it beforehand [TS]

00:55:56   including even the jacket copy when i [TS]

00:55:58   bought a hardcover version of the book [TS]

00:56:00   and so I as a result i'm not really sure [TS]

00:56:03   how to describe it other than to say [TS]

00:56:05   like any of his books it is incredibly [TS]

00:56:08   it is incredibly esoteric it is unique [TS]

00:56:12   I cannot think of another book that [TS]

00:56:13   approach this way that all I will say is [TS]

00:56:15   that it involves science fiction [TS]

00:56:18   superheroes intrigue and a small island [TS]

00:56:24   somewhere in i think the Indian Ocean it [TS]

00:56:29   is a fascinating book it is kind of [TS]

00:56:32   heartbreaking but it is definitely a [TS]

00:56:35   good read I've enjoyed every book that i [TS]

00:56:37   have read by him and I honestly have a [TS]

00:56:40   hard time coming up with an author who [TS]

00:56:41   writes stuff that is more just flat-out [TS]

00:56:44   original and it's quite funny at times i [TS]

00:56:48   found myself laughing aloud and reading [TS]

00:56:50   passages to other people as i went and [TS]

00:56:53   it's it's just it's delightful but he [TS]

00:56:55   and he's that's John lockers kid [TS]

00:56:58   indeed and the Garnier world is a angel [TS]

00:57:02   maker both books i really like they're [TS]

00:57:03   both so bizarre so I just this is very [TS]

00:57:06   much in that very realm it set is said [TS]

00:57:08   in the modern day but it is a slightly [TS]

00:57:11   slightly distorted version are modeled a [TS]

00:57:14   ok David you have anything you've read [TS]

00:57:17   lately you want to recommend well [TS]

00:57:18   tomorrow's my 10th wedding anniversary [TS]

00:57:20   so incredible inventions perfect time to [TS]

00:57:22   read gone girl [TS]

00:57:25   I read that 20th wedding anniversary [TS]

00:57:27   trip with my wife and it doesn't know [TS]

00:57:29   romantic been gone girl [TS]

00:57:31   yeah so is I think you made a joke about [TS]

00:57:33   that a couple podcast ago and I had [TS]

00:57:34   already finished reading it I thought it [TS]

00:57:36   was pretty funny but i but I knew there [TS]

00:57:38   was no way I was going to get spoiled [TS]

00:57:40   for me with the movie coming out so i [TS]

00:57:42   had to rehabilitate know for a while so [TS]

00:57:44   i had to get it done and i also did was [TS]

00:57:46   just reading a history black count which [TS]

00:57:49   is about Alexander Dumas father who was [TS]

00:57:52   a who was actually a slave in the West [TS]

00:57:55   Indies at one point and mixed-race and [TS]

00:57:59   then ended up in France and all these [TS]

00:58:00   adventures that actually actually [TS]

00:58:03   influence to Mars books like kind of [TS]

00:58:05   money Christo and three musketeers alive [TS]

00:58:07   so that was a kind of fun read for for a [TS]

00:58:10   non-fictional history and girls one of [TS]

00:58:12   those books and I did say this couple [TS]

00:58:14   episodes ago that that everybody talks [TS]

00:58:16   about and everybody's reading about you [TS]

00:58:18   know I can give it an endorsement it's a [TS]

00:58:20   really good book it is not its people [TS]

00:58:22   are not reading it because they may be [TS]

00:58:24   reading it because everybody's reading [TS]

00:58:25   it but it's a good book it's I enjoyed a [TS]

00:58:27   lot although it is it is a kind of dark [TS]

00:58:30   yeah and it surprised me which doesn't [TS]

00:58:32   happen very often [TS]

00:58:33   yes yes I didn't know where it was going [TS]

00:58:36   at several points which is good [TS]

00:58:38   Erica what other than cramming for this [TS]

00:58:41   any other books that you like to [TS]

00:58:42   recommend yeah i have i've actually been [TS]

00:58:45   thinking over just the past few months [TS]

00:58:47   reading but i think i've read more in [TS]

00:58:49   the last two months and i have in the [TS]

00:58:50   past like six years probably in part [TS]

00:58:54   because I got a Kindle paperwhite for my [TS]

00:58:56   birthday in June so it makes it so much [TS]

00:58:58   easier and also i think i think i am [TS]

00:59:01   going to credit paul cornell with this [TS]

00:59:03   sort of renaissance of reading because [TS]

00:59:05   cramming for the shadow police just kind [TS]

00:59:08   of was like oh my gosh now i remember [TS]

00:59:10   how books work this is fantastic so I [TS]

00:59:12   read just within the past month and a [TS]

00:59:16   half i read old man's were by john [TS]

00:59:18   scalzi just got my sister recommended it [TS]

00:59:21   and it's been around for quite a while [TS]

00:59:24   oh yeah that's a good one that's a good [TS]

00:59:26   boy Andrew yeah i read i read the the [TS]

00:59:29   the Y a version Zoe's tail first because [TS]

00:59:32   it was a hugo nominee and I was like [TS]

00:59:34   well this is great and then i read the [TS]

00:59:36   whole rest of the series and it [TS]

00:59:38   it's all good old man's war is I bet [TS]

00:59:40   they're making a movie if that or a TV [TS]

00:59:42   show show i think there it was in [TS]

00:59:45   development for a movie for a long time [TS]

00:59:46   I think it's now in development as a TV [TS]

00:59:48   right when since it's a series they can [TS]

00:59:50   mind the whole setting to write those [TS]

00:59:53   stories right that's what it and if [TS]

00:59:55   anybody hasn't heard of it it's it takes [TS]

00:59:57   place a number of years in the future [TS]

00:59:59   where [TS]

00:59:59   where [TS]

01:00:00   humans have called have colonies off in [TS]

01:00:02   other places and earth is kind of a [TS]

01:00:05   backwater a little bit and once you get [TS]

01:00:07   to be 75 if you want to join up and be [TS]

01:00:10   in the colonial army they will make you [TS]

01:00:13   young again so it's kind of an [TS]

01:00:14   interesting story and in that itself in [TS]

01:00:17   the point of view of older folks who are [TS]

01:00:20   suddenly somewhat young again i won't [TS]

01:00:22   give any more way it was it was a really [TS]

01:00:23   well-built world I thought it was aight [TS]

01:00:26   i like the way he took into account a [TS]

01:00:27   lot of the possibilities of what would [TS]

01:00:30   happen if you did that which he also did [TS]

01:00:32   in another book that i just read which [TS]

01:00:33   is his newest book locking where you [TS]

01:00:36   have it's again a few years in the [TS]

01:00:39   future totally different universe than [TS]

01:00:41   the old man's world one but there's a [TS]

01:00:44   disease that certain left no I can't [TS]

01:00:46   remember how many million people not a [TS]

01:00:48   huge percentage of the population [TS]

01:00:49   basically locked into their bodies so [TS]

01:00:52   they're not able to not able to move or [TS]

01:00:55   communicate in any way but they are [TS]

01:00:56   totally conscious so with a whole bunch [TS]

01:00:58   of research grants and stuff from the [TS]

01:01:01   government people are given i can't [TS]

01:01:04   remember exactly what they're called but [TS]

01:01:06   basically robots that they can but you [TS]

01:01:08   know they're lying in their bed but [TS]

01:01:09   they're controlling these robots that [TS]

01:01:11   are walking around and speaking with her [TS]

01:01:12   their voices and and it's a it's a [TS]

01:01:16   another detective story actually if you [TS]

01:01:18   get another murder mystery that's it [TS]

01:01:20   just happens to be solved instead of by [TS]

01:01:22   magicians in and warlocks and stuff by [TS]

01:01:24   in part a an FBI agent who happens to be [TS]

01:01:28   walking around basically in a robot suit [TS]

01:01:30   which is a an interesting idea and again [TS]

01:01:33   he takes these it takes the whole idea [TS]

01:01:36   robot suits my other car is a robot suit [TS]

01:01:40   of of what would happen you know what [TS]

01:01:44   kind of prejudices there would be in [TS]

01:01:46   society and what kind of governmental [TS]

01:01:48   regulations would have to happen or not [TS]

01:01:50   happen and it just he extrapolates a lot [TS]

01:01:53   of that stuff out very nicely so it made [TS]

01:01:55   it in an interesting read [TS]

01:01:56   i also read a I think it's just a [TS]

01:02:00   novella but on a red station drifting by [TS]

01:02:02   elected are don't know that so yeah that [TS]

01:02:05   was one of the hugo nominee is last year [TS]

01:02:07   yeah it was from last year now she later [TS]

01:02:09   really that that told me about it [TS]

01:02:10   because I had really enjoyed [TS]

01:02:13   her disguise that was scott and i both [TS]

01:02:16   commanded that one to you i think is you [TS]

01:02:17   liked her story this year [TS]

01:02:19   yes yes and the waiting stars with her [TS]

01:02:21   story this year so I like I didn't like [TS]

01:02:23   that as much as I like the waiting stars [TS]

01:02:24   but i did enjoy it was it was more in [TS]

01:02:27   that same universe so I yeah like that [TS]

01:02:29   and i'm also on a I'm a big fan of a [TS]

01:02:33   writer called Sarah Addison allen and [TS]

01:02:35   she writes it's definitely not exactly [TS]

01:02:38   science fiction I guess magical realism [TS]

01:02:40   with the heart it's they're very sort of [TS]

01:02:43   formulaic books about women and they are [TS]

01:02:47   just heartwarming and they all take [TS]

01:02:48   place and kind of small towns in the [TS]

01:02:50   south and most of them sort of are in [TS]

01:02:53   the same universe so you get little just [TS]

01:02:55   kind of nods of crossover between [TS]

01:02:57   between books and and I realized that [TS]

01:02:59   despite the fact that i had already [TS]

01:03:00   pre-ordered her book that comes out next [TS]

01:03:02   year [TS]

01:03:03   somehow I had missed the book that came [TS]

01:03:04   out this februari just discovered that [TS]

01:03:07   last week so of course in a day and a [TS]

01:03:09   half is zipped through that book and [TS]

01:03:11   with with very thrilled it's called Lost [TS]

01:03:13   Lake that I had something it's probably [TS]

01:03:16   not my favorite of hers but i think it [TS]

01:03:18   has has started me on a much-needed [TS]

01:03:20   reread so i think i'm going to jump jump [TS]

01:03:22   in next with the sugar queen and and go [TS]

01:03:25   through all of her stuff again because [TS]

01:03:26   it's just for me those are real comfort [TS]

01:03:29   reads they're very very easy quickbooks [TS]

01:03:31   and and they're just like a warm blanket [TS]

01:03:33   a little and I just I was just a trip [TS]

01:03:37   and I i destroyed these three books in [TS]

01:03:42   no time because i like them so much and [TS]

01:03:45   that's been as recommended by many [TS]

01:03:47   people on this podcast been winters last [TS]

01:03:49   policeman series so good cannot begin to [TS]

01:03:53   tell you how much I liked it and the [TS]

01:03:56   premise for those who haven't heard [TS]

01:03:57   those other episodes is this guy is a [TS]

01:04:00   police detective in a world where he's [TS]

01:04:03   got his promotion to police detective [TS]

01:04:05   because they keep losing members on the [TS]

01:04:07   forest because scientists have [TS]

01:04:09   discovered that about nine months and [TS]

01:04:11   asteroid is going to hit the earth and [TS]

01:04:12   kill everybody and that's the that's the [TS]

01:04:15   background and in the foreground he [TS]

01:04:18   solves a mystery and it's a detective [TS]

01:04:21   it's a really good first person [TS]

01:04:24   detective story with a really [TS]

01:04:26   good voice there are twists and red [TS]

01:04:29   herrings like you would expect in any [TS]

01:04:31   good detective story but in the [TS]

01:04:33   background you've got the fact that the [TS]

01:04:34   world doesn't work quite like it does in [TS]

01:04:37   our world and people are not reacting [TS]

01:04:39   well in various ways to the idea that [TS]

01:04:42   everybody's gonna be dead in nine months [TS]

01:04:44   and there are three books in that series [TS]

01:04:46   the last detective countdown city and [TS]

01:04:49   world of trouble and they're all they're [TS]

01:04:53   all good i like them all a lot and and I [TS]

01:04:57   I without without spoiling because it [TS]

01:04:59   really Scott mentioned this the other [TS]

01:05:01   the other weekend I thought it was maybe [TS]

01:05:02   a spoiler it's really icy why it's not a [TS]

01:05:05   spoiler he doesn't he doesn't wimp out [TS]

01:05:08   there there there isn't a last-minute [TS]

01:05:10   reprieve in the book that's like oh and [TS]

01:05:12   then everybody was fine it was all just [TS]

01:05:13   a misunderstanding i mean this is this [TS]

01:05:14   is this is this is a series about what [TS]

01:05:19   people do and how they react when they [TS]

01:05:21   know they're not going to make it and in [TS]

01:05:25   it is this detective and it their great [TS]

01:05:29   so high highest recommendation really [TS]

01:05:32   for that whole series so good kind of [TS]

01:05:35   depressing [TS]

01:05:36   yeah way to bring us down to the [TS]

01:05:38   depressing but so good going on our 10th [TS]

01:05:41   anniversary trip to French Polynesia and [TS]

01:05:43   I i was considering reading that trilogy [TS]

01:05:45   on the trip well it says your god girl [TS]

01:05:47   now why not [TS]

01:05:48   yeah the police are gonna let you know [TS]

01:05:51   yeah that all right well I think that [TS]

01:05:54   wraps up this edition of of the [TS]

01:05:56   incomparable book club will reconvene in [TS]

01:05:59   a sewer in london in five years time to [TS]

01:06:02   I don't know yeah I'm gonna miss that [TS]

01:06:04   one incantation you you are going to [TS]

01:06:06   miss again because the river gods are [TS]

01:06:08   going to teleport you there with magic [TS]

01:06:11   well it's a lot cheaper than flying so [TS]

01:06:13   I'm in all right it would get me to [TS]

01:06:15   London i would i would go for a stop in [TS]

01:06:17   the sewers stop us or you need to come [TS]

01:06:20   out of her and then go back to business [TS]

01:06:22   you have to stay this or you just have [TS]

01:06:24   the meeting and then you leave and you [TS]

01:06:26   you're fine [TS]

01:06:27   alright i would like to thank my guests [TS]

01:06:29   for discussing urban fantasy London and [TS]

01:06:31   otherwise with me tonight David [TS]

01:06:34   Burkhardt thank you for being on after [TS]

01:06:36   more than 200 episodes of waiting for [TS]

01:06:38   your moment to strike [TS]

01:06:39   yep looking to be forward to being on [TS]

01:06:41   episode four hundred yeah [TS]

01:06:43   excellent excellent will will will also [TS]

01:06:45   an invite dan moore and thank you as [TS]

01:06:48   always for being here is always a [TS]

01:06:50   pleasure especially when it involves [TS]

01:06:52   words words words a good America and [TS]

01:06:56   sign thank you so much for coming back [TS]

01:06:58   and and sharing all these a doctor who [TS]

01:07:01   related right with me anytime I thought [TS]

01:07:04   I am next time you're doing something [TS]

01:07:06   with Doctor Who directors i will i will [TS]

01:07:07   be here [TS]

01:07:08   hmm ok dreamy or otherwise or otherwise [TS]

01:07:11   alright fair enough [TS]

01:07:12   his lungs are good and and everybody out [TS]

01:07:14   there thanks for listening we hope [TS]

01:07:15   without doing too much in the way of [TS]

01:07:17   spoilers we've given you a whole bunch [TS]

01:07:18   of new things you can read if you like [TS]

01:07:20   this sort of thing which we all do and [TS]

01:07:22   we think you will too [TS]

01:07:23   so thanks for listening we'll see you [TS]

01:07:24   next time [TS]