The Incomparable

215: Someone Is Threatening My Whales


00:00:03   the incomparable number 215 October 2040 [TS]

00:00:14   welcome back everybody to be [TS]

00:00:15   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason smell [TS]

00:00:16   and tonight we're gonna be talking about [TS]

00:00:19   it's literally like part two of [TS]

00:00:20   something we did a few weeks ago which [TS]

00:00:22   was the best and worst of Star Trek when [TS]

00:00:23   we the story is an episode 200 realized [TS]

00:00:26   i was a big star trek fan of my podcast [TS]

00:00:27   was almost entirely about Star Wars so I [TS]

00:00:29   thought I would rectify that by doing [TS]

00:00:31   some episodes about Star Trek we do best [TS]

00:00:33   and worst to star trek episode was a lot [TS]

00:00:34   of fun people really reacted well to it [TS]

00:00:36   and said I hope you're gonna do more of [TS]

00:00:38   those and the answer is yes we are going [TS]

00:00:39   to do more of those this in fact is one [TS]

00:00:41   of those things that is the more of the [TS]

00:00:43   anyway it's part two of the best for [TS]

00:00:45   Star Trek i have an excellent panel here [TS]

00:00:47   very similar to the one I had before [TS]

00:00:49   with the addition of the person who came [TS]

00:00:51   up with this idea in the first place and [TS]

00:00:52   didn't show up the last one so or i [TS]

00:00:56   guess his internet was really bad for [TS]

00:00:57   the last one so it wasn't here but he's [TS]

00:00:59   here tonight [TS]

00:00:59   its moist uyan I'm is not again Jason [TS]

00:01:02   the line must be drawn yeah they're [TS]

00:01:05   sorry no further and I will make you pay [TS]

00:01:07   for what you've done is you've broken [TS]

00:01:10   little ships also scott McNulty host of [TS]

00:01:13   uncomfortable zone random trek is here [TS]

00:01:16   as you would only expect hi Scott [TS]

00:01:19   use the Force Luke no mom and i believe [TS]

00:01:25   i quote Darth Vader when I say no [TS]

00:01:29   guys let's talk about our favorite [TS]

00:01:31   boobies you heard that voice you heard [TS]

00:01:33   was Tony sindelar hi Tony [TS]

00:01:35   hello nerds yeah fix what is that your [TS]

00:01:38   new sign on [TS]

00:01:39   hello nerds that right is that what a [TS]

00:01:41   lot in real life so let's not let's [TS]

00:01:43   bring it to the internet for most [TS]

00:01:45   representative and a proponent of Star [TS]

00:01:47   Trek Voyager on the planet perhaps is [TS]

00:01:50   brianna when she's back hello what's [TS]

00:01:53   crack-a-lacking everything you love [TS]

00:01:55   I will destroy that ever cook ok i'll [TS]

00:01:58   argue for until your mind is my mission [TS]

00:02:02   and then we leave the arena as friends [TS]

00:02:04   what do I say we solve ok destroy the [TS]

00:02:07   arena the arena is going oh man i'm the [TS]

00:02:09   guy in the Big River lizard are na could [TS]

00:02:11   be don't always and David little David [TS]

00:02:13   Lawrence here you just heard him hi [TS]

00:02:15   David [TS]

00:02:16   oh haha home set [TS]

00:02:20   okay so I'm gonna do my George Takei [TS]

00:02:22   that I didn't do when we did our dirty k [TS]

00:02:24   a bonus track which is san francisco i [TS]

00:02:27   was born there [TS]

00:02:29   that's my favorite sealer one target my [TS]

00:02:31   explosion of joy and fire [TS]

00:02:34   ok so here's how we're going to do with [TS]

00:02:37   this is not a draft this is more of a [TS]

00:02:38   debate club or discussion club i'm going [TS]

00:02:41   to ask people for their opinions in this [TS]

00:02:42   case we're gonna get a lot of people who [TS]

00:02:44   are going to probably agree with [TS]

00:02:47   specific things and sort of sign on to [TS]

00:02:49   what that person said if you want to do [TS]

00:02:51   that that's just fine i anticipate that [TS]

00:02:53   will happen because in some of these [TS]

00:02:55   cases there aren't that many choices so [TS]

00:02:57   it'll be an interesting conversation [TS]

00:02:58   about various aspects of Star Trek and [TS]

00:03:01   we're gonna start with series because [TS]

00:03:03   that's not controversial at all and I [TS]

00:03:07   what I've asked my my panelists to do is [TS]

00:03:09   tell me what they think the best Star [TS]

00:03:10   Trek series is I know I know and we're [TS]

00:03:14   going to start with Tony Tony what do [TS]

00:03:17   you think the best Star Trek series hell [TS]

00:03:18   man [TS]

00:03:19   don't worry i will know I browser so [TS]

00:03:24   confident until then God knows what [TS]

00:03:27   could go wrong [TS]

00:03:28   um I will go with the thing that I said [TS]

00:03:31   on an episode of random track so i don't [TS]

00:03:33   get caught in some kind of time do i [TS]

00:03:36   will say that the best series is deep [TS]

00:03:37   space nine it is not my favorite series [TS]

00:03:39   but I also i will put forward that it is [TS]

00:03:42   the [TS]

00:03:42   s-series alright you would you like to [TS]

00:03:44   talk about that a little bit think this [TS]

00:03:46   is the draft so I would love for you to [TS]

00:03:48   do you explain why and then we have [TS]

00:03:49   wasn't i wasn't sure what was gonna [TS]

00:03:50   happen we can sign in and attack me or [TS]

00:03:52   around that will happen to build some [TS]

00:03:54   kind of makeshift cannon out of bamboo [TS]

00:03:55   or something how you chose wisely [TS]

00:03:58   yes thank you thank you that means i [TS]

00:04:01   chose the same thing Scott exactly yeah [TS]

00:04:03   i know so i will put for next generation [TS]

00:04:08   is my favorite star trek but i will put [TS]

00:04:10   forward the best deep space nine is the [TS]

00:04:12   best star track in terms of the quality [TS]

00:04:14   of the primary and secondary characters [TS]

00:04:16   and perhaps most of all the [TS]

00:04:19   multi-episode arc throughout the later [TS]

00:04:21   series that really kind of just keep [TS]

00:04:22   going and have a level storytelling [TS]

00:04:24   that's not really present in some of the [TS]

00:04:26   earlier Star Trek's where they have [TS]

00:04:27   these storylines that go on and on and [TS]

00:04:30   on and are interesting and pull you in [TS]

00:04:32   and you know some people don't like to [TS]

00:04:34   expand its not as much because it's it's [TS]

00:04:35   a very kind of dark depiction of the [TS]

00:04:38   future where a lot of people are worn [TS]

00:04:40   your heroes are doing things that are [TS]

00:04:41   not necessarily very nice and there's [TS]

00:04:44   there's torture and there's intriguing [TS]

00:04:45   they're spying and there's conspiracy [TS]

00:04:47   but I find all those fascinating and [TS]

00:04:49   great and I think that it makes it kind [TS]

00:04:52   of the deepest and most interesting of [TS]

00:04:54   the star treks let's go deep in the name [TS]

00:04:55   so it's totally right there [TS]

00:04:57   yeah it's also space given and nine well [TS]

00:05:00   heading to the number so it sounded [TS]

00:05:01   future we probably the biggest digit yep [TS]

00:05:03   take that the Space Station k-7 yeah [TS]

00:05:08   Babylon 5 take that that I've war star [TS]

00:05:11   trek series can we agree for better [TS]

00:05:14   yeah uh you know I think he's based on [TS]

00:05:17   one of the things in it is interesting [TS]

00:05:18   about these people really remember the [TS]

00:05:19   latter part of the run where they really [TS]

00:05:21   didn't break the story arc and go dark [TS]

00:05:22   the first few years are not so much that [TS]

00:05:24   I think we're interested about the first [TS]

00:05:27   few years of several surgeries [TS]

00:05:28   well that's true that's true but I mean [TS]

00:05:30   that was that was when that kind of our [TS]

00:05:31   story arc storytelling came to the fore [TS]

00:05:33   was in the last like three years of [TS]

00:05:34   dudes face so I think we got a little [TS]

00:05:35   bit of a taste of that even I think [TS]

00:05:37   early on there was a season break where [TS]

00:05:39   they had a three-parter and it was like [TS]

00:05:41   that they took it up a notch in terms of [TS]

00:05:43   you know we had a couple two partners [TS]

00:05:45   here and there in a next-gen but it it [TS]

00:05:47   seemed clear early on that they're going [TS]

00:05:48   to do some longer longer form stuff so I [TS]

00:05:51   think I think deep space nine has some [TS]

00:05:54   of the very best starter [TS]

00:05:56   that's ever been made but i also think [TS]

00:05:57   it's all over the map [TS]

00:05:59   i I just in tone in the characters are [TS]

00:06:02   in what the plot lines are and what just [TS]

00:06:05   the field the show is um and I think the [TS]

00:06:08   experimental episodes just really even [TS]

00:06:12   in the the vein of Star Trek episodes [TS]

00:06:14   just don't care right really go for it i [TS]

00:06:17   mean it really has something wildly out [TS]

00:06:20   there so I I definitely thinks most [TS]

00:06:22   experimental star trek i actually got [TS]

00:06:24   really down this is a bad timing example [TS]

00:06:27   I got really down on deep space 9 right [TS]

00:06:29   before they really kicked their story [TS]

00:06:31   arc storytelling into gear and I i [TS]

00:06:34   dropped out and i stopped watching and I [TS]

00:06:36   i believe i haven't even seen like the [TS]

00:06:38   last couple years and decided not to [TS]

00:06:40   watch it while it was airing LOL i loved [TS]

00:06:43   next-gen and I love next-gen was like my [TS]

00:06:46   favorite thing ever [TS]

00:06:47   as I like a teenager growing up and [TS]

00:06:50   basically when when Deep Space nine [TS]

00:06:51   started and when Voyager started I was [TS]

00:06:53   just angry that they were not more next [TS]

00:06:56   year and there's even this little with [TS]

00:06:57   you know in the first episode of deep [TS]

00:06:59   space nine Picard has like a cameo in [TS]

00:07:01   like one of the first things we learned [TS]

00:07:02   about cisco is that he doesn't like the [TS]

00:07:03   card and I was like I'm so angry that's [TS]

00:07:05   not believable [TS]

00:07:06   everyone loves him he's the best I don't [TS]

00:07:08   want to watch the whole show up but I [TS]

00:07:10   went back to it later after it all [TS]

00:07:12   wrapped up and I've watched it all the [TS]

00:07:13   way through twice and i think it's i [TS]

00:07:16   think it's really great but you know for [TS]

00:07:17   a long time it was like after i watch [TS]

00:07:19   the wire was basically angry every [TS]

00:07:21   television so happy on the wire after [TS]

00:07:23   that and that was wow you know like [TS]

00:07:25   sixteen-year-old tony was basically [TS]

00:07:26   angry at everything else was not Star [TS]

00:07:28   Trek The Next Generation and even [TS]

00:07:30   Voyager deep space nine we're not close [TS]

00:07:31   enough [TS]

00:07:32   the episode that killed me for the [TS]

00:07:33   person i was actually past tense which [TS]

00:07:35   is from the third season and it is a [TS]

00:07:37   shameless ripoff of city on the edge of [TS]

00:07:39   forever [TS]

00:07:40   I feel they go back in time it is yeah [TS]

00:07:43   and I hated it I mean I reacted so [TS]

00:07:44   negatively to about like that's it i [TS]

00:07:46   forgot i forget it I'm not gonna even [TS]

00:07:48   bother and I watched Babylon 5 and [TS]

00:07:51   forgot about star trek to space I i'm [TS]

00:07:53   slowly watching actually deep space nine [TS]

00:07:55   now from the point at which i gave up [TS]

00:07:57   and I you know I I've learned to forgive [TS]

00:08:00   now but it's a fine detective I've gotta [TS]

00:08:04   say the thing that I like about past [TS]

00:08:05   tense is that I felt it was a better [TS]

00:08:07   ripoff of harlan ellison's original [TS]

00:08:08   script in the act [TS]

00:08:09   cool scenario sorry no sorry King III [TS]

00:08:15   thought I don't know I like past tense [TS]

00:08:17   that's up there is one of like episodes [TS]

00:08:19   i really enjoyed it it's got some I mean [TS]

00:08:21   it's got that kind of dystopian [TS]

00:08:22   commentary where you know that the near [TS]

00:08:25   future is not gonna be so great right [TS]

00:08:27   but yea yet it was you know you're mad [TS]

00:08:30   you're finding that you're not a [TS]

00:08:31   depression and it was like so close to [TS]

00:08:32   just being like hey that was a good [TS]

00:08:34   episode let's do that again and it just [TS]

00:08:36   seemed like a robot to me that they [TS]

00:08:37   didn't forgive me I wasn't what college [TS]

00:08:39   grad school whatever I was I was I was [TS]

00:08:41   young and I was an angry young man I [TS]

00:08:44   mean I'm sorry angry young fan can't [TS]

00:08:45   relate to that oh yeah something like [TS]

00:08:47   you were angry that it wasn't Harlan [TS]

00:08:49   Ellison maybe you know what be partying [TS]

00:08:51   Allison was angry that everything is not [TS]

00:08:53   hardly know ya just remember now i think [TS]

00:08:56   i think the s9 has my promise ts9 is so [TS]

00:09:00   many of the characters are you like the [TS]

00:09:03   entire Ferengi subplot is just I cringe [TS]

00:09:06   every single time because cork is I [TS]

00:09:08   understand his purpose as a foil they so [TS]

00:09:11   thoroughly unlikable and like his drama [TS]

00:09:14   with knock [TS]

00:09:15   it's just don't you know it's it's again [TS]

00:09:20   I understand the metaphor you don't have [TS]

00:09:22   the lovable interplay between quark and [TS]

00:09:23   odo that really I do like that i did [TS]

00:09:26   last night i got their stuff yeah we [TS]

00:09:28   don't let's not you know it's like we're [TS]

00:09:29   going to mobile skeleton your [TS]

00:09:30   money-grubbing you hate women right we [TS]

00:09:32   don't really even up another episode [TS]

00:09:34   where we explore that what we're going [TS]

00:09:35   to start over human world but that's [TS]

00:09:38   it's not just that I think they also on [TS]

00:09:41   I think major Kira takes I didn't warm [TS]

00:09:44   up to her until probably season two and [TS]

00:09:47   I don't know it feels like it took a [TS]

00:09:49   while for the scripts to really show her [TS]

00:09:50   human side but I don't know I found her [TS]

00:09:53   to be really two-dimensional in the [TS]

00:09:55   first season [TS]

00:09:56   yeah i think that improve just to show [TS]

00:09:58   went along but a lot of that our nails [TS]

00:10:00   are pretty rough yeah she was the shoot [TS]

00:10:02   but she was drawn more I to Rihanna's [TS]

00:10:06   point for me more just as shallow as [TS]

00:10:12   humanly possible showing she was a [TS]

00:10:14   functional character rather than a i [TS]

00:10:17   want a human being because I mean that [TS]

00:10:19   would be offensive and racist but sheshe [TS]

00:10:23   he was not a person of depth until we [TS]

00:10:25   got into the later seasons we bothered [TS]

00:10:27   me and I just like the character mostly [TS]

00:10:29   because it didn't feel like a character [TS]

00:10:30   felt like it was a it was a a functional [TS]

00:10:33   place of ice and I don't know sorry that [TS]

00:10:34   was because like it was supposed to be [TS]

00:10:36   in centro right and they couldn't get in [TS]

00:10:38   so the show more character and like they [TS]

00:10:41   kind of forgot to write stuff for that [TS]

00:10:43   new character because they thought they [TS]

00:10:44   were gonna able just slot an existing [TS]

00:10:46   character in but but yeah either way to [TS]

00:10:48   get there there's issues there will add [TS]

00:10:50   depth later [TS]

00:10:51   yeah well we'll do that and probably did [TS]

00:10:52   eventually right [TS]

00:10:54   yeah they they got an episode where she [TS]

00:10:58   and chief O'Brien get really really [TS]

00:11:00   uneasy about how much i love my enjoyed [TS]

00:11:02   him rubbing on her [TS]

00:11:03   oh my which is to plug my parents on [TS]

00:11:06   random track is looking at our mind play [TS]

00:11:08   that good Santa not a good empanada good [TS]

00:11:11   intersection of being together for sodas [TS]

00:11:13   and click on episodes and no that is not [TS]

00:11:15   a place to buy random comfortable know [TS]

00:11:17   Brian episodes to we only let you know [TS]

00:11:19   what I like rose i love all the things [TS]

00:11:22   that have to happen the chief of the [TS]

00:11:23   brightest that's right [TS]

00:11:24   torture for many decades yeah 10 i love [TS]

00:11:28   two varieties the best and I actually [TS]

00:11:30   feel bad that he possibly making [TS]

00:11:33   psychologically destroyed and smiley [TS]

00:11:38   assplay an alternate version of himself [TS]

00:11:39   morning in the future [TS]

00:11:41   yeah he suffers for all of us gets [TS]

00:11:44   separated for his way he's the Kenny of [TS]

00:11:47   deep space nine he is the Christ figure [TS]

00:11:49   obviously I should throw in the my pic [TS]

00:11:52   was also deep space nine now that is [TS]

00:11:55   correct as big as much as much of a [TS]

00:11:58   next-generation devotee as as i am and i [TS]

00:12:01   watch that show from from a young age [TS]

00:12:04   when it began until it ended and it was [TS]

00:12:06   it was a very big thing for me for me [TS]

00:12:09   deep space nine the experimental stuff [TS]

00:12:13   that I got into even when it wasn't [TS]

00:12:15   necessarily TV its best or even Star [TS]

00:12:17   Trek at its best [TS]

00:12:18   it didn't it didn't feel as much based [TS]

00:12:21   on a similar template of something that [TS]

00:12:23   had come before and that not knowing [TS]

00:12:25   what was necessarily going to come next [TS]

00:12:27   where I think it was at the [TS]

00:12:31   this is a tip of my hand to something [TS]

00:12:33   that I'm gonna mention later but the [TS]

00:12:35   episode that is the lane is rob episode [TS]

00:12:38   just came out of left field for me where [TS]

00:12:41   there's this whole Valjean in Javert [TS]

00:12:44   thread going through it and the the [TS]

00:12:48   thing about the series was that it ran [TS]

00:12:50   straight at some of those things that if [TS]

00:12:54   it were played a little bit differently [TS]

00:12:56   could be considered a bit too [TS]

00:12:57   on-the-nose are trying a bit too hard [TS]

00:12:58   and it ended up working and it was it [TS]

00:13:02   was like watching a disparate grouping [TS]

00:13:06   of amazing theater actors getting to [TS]

00:13:10   work together in in ways that we hadn't [TS]

00:13:12   gotten in a Star Trek series up until [TS]

00:13:14   that and that was that was fresh enough [TS]

00:13:16   and different enough for me that I i was [TS]

00:13:20   i was absolutely devoted to it and it [TS]

00:13:21   going see realized in later seasons only [TS]

00:13:23   doubled my interest in paying attention [TS]

00:13:26   to it i can go along with that just [TS]

00:13:28   because it it it seemed to have like the [TS]

00:13:30   most interesting guest casting it was [TS]

00:13:33   Uncle cast series and that's exactly [TS]

00:13:36   right it'sit's very much as theater kind [TS]

00:13:39   of both in terms of casting and in terms [TS]

00:13:42   of the writing there's there's a little [TS]

00:13:44   more of this theatrical drama and part [TS]

00:13:46   of it is just because they were able to [TS]

00:13:48   build and enrich elaborate so there's a [TS]

00:13:51   lot of size nine here and i agree it's a [TS]

00:13:54   good show tonight make a nice guy [TS]

00:13:56   ok can you refresh our and is not my [TS]

00:14:00   favorite show get chaos offer some [TS]

00:14:02   mornings I think you're against it as [TS]

00:14:04   far yeah the best Star Trek series [TS]

00:14:06   um I think Cisco did a good job at I [TS]

00:14:10   feel like you did a really unique spin [TS]

00:14:13   on Captain [TS]

00:14:14   I think we'll probably touch on him for [TS]

00:14:15   best captains if we get to that [TS]

00:14:17   that said I think as far as being an [TS]

00:14:19   icon i think on this list of all the [TS]

00:14:22   captain's I think he and Archer kind of [TS]

00:14:25   tied for the least interesting captain [TS]

00:14:27   is a character um I know every time it [TS]

00:14:30   was like who the emissary got into this [TS]

00:14:33   mysticism part of it it just it went to [TS]

00:14:35   a place I couldn't go to it's like a [TS]

00:14:37   science-fiction fan I I think [TS]

00:14:40   aesthetically I know when I watch star [TS]

00:14:43   trek [TS]

00:14:44   I'm looking for the artists that kind of [TS]

00:14:46   create this world to create a really [TS]

00:14:49   cool aesthetic my CT ng SE gorgeous work [TS]

00:14:53   when I si voy dressy gorgeous work [TS]

00:14:56   because the same workers the energy yeah [TS]

00:14:58   what exactly and I find the world of [TS]

00:15:01   deep space nine meaning you know that [TS]

00:15:04   the architecture of this space station [TS]

00:15:05   and interiors and even the Defiant I [TS]

00:15:09   think it's the least appealing visual [TS]

00:15:12   star trek world and i also think that [TS]

00:15:14   with the ships and characters that they [TS]

00:15:17   brought into the series of the life of [TS]

00:15:19   it i think it's some of the week work in [TS]

00:15:21   an artistic sense and i think it was [TS]

00:15:24   yeah [TS]

00:15:24   god I was gonna say i would suggest that [TS]

00:15:26   some of that is like intended to be that [TS]

00:15:28   way right because the station is [TS]

00:15:30   supposed to be this Cardassian thing and [TS]

00:15:32   it's very drab and yeah I guess it's [TS]

00:15:34   harder to defend the Defiant except that [TS]

00:15:36   perhaps it's a it's a military vessel [TS]

00:15:37   and therefore it's right you know [TS]

00:15:39   oh yeah so I think there's that um I [TS]

00:15:43   think that there are you something I [TS]

00:15:45   look for strong female characters and I [TS]

00:15:47   think that definitely exists on the show [TS]

00:15:49   I think major career on hold her own [TS]

00:15:51   with anyone i think the treatment of [TS]

00:15:53   dats in later seasons was extremely [TS]

00:15:55   problematic [TS]

00:15:56   yeah you know I felt like I feel like [TS]

00:15:59   there are other star tracks that [TS]

00:16:01   represent women better than deep space [TS]

00:16:03   nine yet at times [TS]

00:16:05   all right before we continue let's take [TS]

00:16:08   a break and do a sponsor break our [TS]

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00:18:23   you have a choice for best series i do [TS]

00:18:27   indeed and it is not deep space 9 [TS]

00:18:30   well that'll make this more interesting [TS]

00:18:31   than well it's unfortunate as much as I [TS]

00:18:34   love it and I do love it but if you [TS]

00:18:38   think about it next generation took [TS]

00:18:40   about three seasons to get good deep [TS]

00:18:42   space nine took about three seasons [TS]

00:18:44   Voyager enterprise even took three [TS]

00:18:47   seasons [TS]

00:18:48   there's only one show that nailed it [TS]

00:18:49   right off the bat and then took three [TS]

00:18:51   seasons to get bad and we exactly five [TS]

00:18:53   way [TS]

00:18:54   yeah but yes so that that's the first [TS]

00:18:58   reason i picked the original series [TS]

00:18:59   the second reason is i can watch it over [TS]

00:19:03   and over [TS]

00:19:04   over and over again and I can watch it [TS]

00:19:05   in any order I want pretty much I don't [TS]

00:19:08   have to have all the backstory and [TS]

00:19:11   thirdly if it weren't for that we [TS]

00:19:13   wouldn't have four other series to talk [TS]

00:19:15   about you know that fandom that whatever [TS]

00:19:19   the lightning in a bottle they caught [TS]

00:19:22   even just the first two seasons whatever [TS]

00:19:25   that was was so powerful that it kept it [TS]

00:19:28   alive for 10 years without any new [TS]

00:19:32   content unless you can't the animated [TS]

00:19:34   series I like the animated series you [TS]

00:19:37   like it so much maybe you should take it [TS]

00:19:39   hey not not the great thing that we [TS]

00:19:43   wouldn't have huh [TS]

00:19:44   hey it but you know we we wouldn't still [TS]

00:19:49   be talking about it [TS]

00:19:50   45 years later we wouldn't have hundreds [TS]

00:19:54   of novels and comic books and 1212 [TS]

00:19:57   movies 12 movies and a park official [TS]

00:20:00   animated series [TS]

00:20:02   there's something about that just that [TS]

00:20:06   basic concept that works and everything [TS]

00:20:09   is judged against it you know deep space [TS]

00:20:11   nine is to boldly stay where no one has [TS]

00:20:13   stayed before you know voyager is [TS]

00:20:15   basically let's do the original again [TS]

00:20:18   just in a new part of space that we [TS]

00:20:20   haven't explored the next generation is [TS]

00:20:22   let's do the same thing you know it [TS]

00:20:25   enterprises we've never been out here [TS]

00:20:26   before let's do the same thing so you [TS]

00:20:29   know without that that at the heart we [TS]

00:20:32   would have anything else [TS]

00:20:33   hello i would argue in fact that that if [TS]

00:20:36   you look at the casting of all success [TS]

00:20:37   of Star Trek series and they all have [TS]

00:20:39   their strengths [TS]

00:20:41   I feel like they're all really trying to [TS]

00:20:44   recapture that Kirk Spock McCoy magic [TS]

00:20:47   and i would argue that none of them do [TS]

00:20:49   they all have their strengths yes but I [TS]

00:20:51   think none of them managed to nail [TS]

00:20:53   because again i think it's one in a [TS]

00:20:55   million and that's why star trek [TS]

00:20:57   survived is because they got that [TS]

00:20:59   one-in-a-million with those characters [TS]

00:21:01   and and I'm I'm with you there to this [TS]

00:21:04   would be my choice as well partially [TS]

00:21:05   because it's sentimental and I grew up [TS]

00:21:07   with it partially it's because yes all [TS]

00:21:10   of them are watchable i love the I love [TS]

00:21:11   the aesthetic i love the the fan shows [TS]

00:21:14   that the star trek continues and all [TS]

00:21:16   that they making out [TS]

00:21:17   with that with that set in southern [TS]

00:21:19   Georgia that they built in a warehouse [TS]

00:21:21   that looks exactly like the original how [TS]

00:21:23   many how many fan-made next generations [TS]

00:21:26   and voyagers and deep space nine is out [TS]

00:21:28   there you know [TS]

00:21:29   yeah there aren't you know it's the [TS]

00:21:33   route it's the root myth of Star Trek is [TS]

00:21:36   this is the stuff i will say i just [TS]

00:21:38   watched where no man has gone before [TS]

00:21:40   which is the second pilot and I of the [TS]

00:21:43   original series and I was amazed at how [TS]

00:21:45   much they got in like how much of the [TS]

00:21:49   star trek mythos is there in the second [TS]

00:21:51   pilot [TS]

00:21:52   yeah it's cause not everybody right it [TS]

00:21:55   is fully formed they do have much nicer [TS]

00:21:56   comfy looking uniform yes I get the [TS]

00:21:59   impression that they tried to wash them [TS]

00:22:00   and they fell apart like no uniforms now [TS]

00:22:03   yeah the James our rightful lure James [TS]

00:22:06   Parker is a well that just proves that [TS]

00:22:08   Gary Mitchell wasn't perfect yeah and [TS]

00:22:10   then the crazy the crazy like metal [TS]

00:22:12   telescoping things off the captain's [TS]

00:22:13   chair and spotty showers a lot and I [TS]

00:22:16   know I I women i'm with Amanda Rose is [TS]

00:22:20   not to say that they are not horror that [TS]

00:22:22   you know that there are so many horrible [TS]

00:22:23   episodes of the original series and yet [TS]

00:22:25   I find them even generally watchable [TS]

00:22:28   yeah and after the empath except i can't [TS]

00:22:32   watch [TS]

00:22:32   I cannot Spock's brain till the cows [TS]

00:22:34   come home you know watch the pit [TS]

00:22:36   you can watch Spock's brain man yeah [TS]

00:22:39   bring and bring one is bracing for [TS]

00:22:40   Campion fight and stopwatch Neelix's [TS]

00:22:43   lungs i guess yeah box brain that you [TS]

00:22:46   can watch them at the same time though [TS]

00:22:47   because they're different parts of the [TS]

00:22:49   body any other thoughts about about the [TS]

00:22:52   original series before I want a water or [TS]

00:22:54   I will say my thoughts or worse [TS]

00:22:57   all right we'll come back that's going [TS]

00:23:00   to get more teasing the future we will [TS]

00:23:02   not and we will not miss the arena is [TS]

00:23:04   going to be destroyed [TS]

00:23:05   I age transwarp Drive alright take us to [TS]

00:23:07   the Future Rihanna alright go ahead and [TS]

00:23:10   pick Voyager alright i love love [TS]

00:23:14   literature i love voyager i think people [TS]

00:23:16   that hate Voyager or irrational and I [TS]

00:23:19   have just ok so i think there are [TS]

00:23:22   several measures of what makes against [TS]

00:23:24   our track I think there's production [TS]

00:23:26   values i think their story I think [TS]

00:23:28   there's character development [TS]

00:23:29   biosynthetic there's like like [TS]

00:23:31   mathematical measures of it like what is [TS]

00:23:34   the average quality of an episode and I [TS]

00:23:37   feel like if you look at TNG there's a [TS]

00:23:40   wild wild wild like fluctuation between [TS]

00:23:45   like first season and the best of both [TS]

00:23:48   worlds [TS]

00:23:49   it's certainly true TOS is truth vs 9 um [TS]

00:23:53   and I feel like by the time [TS]

00:23:55   Voyager came along I felt like they [TS]

00:23:57   understood their production pipeline [TS]

00:23:58   better to a point that there is a [TS]

00:24:02   certain base level of quality to the [TS]

00:24:06   episodes in the the makeup and special [TS]

00:24:08   effects and the acting and frankly the [TS]

00:24:11   script quality that I think it's on [TS]

00:24:14   average they're very very few episodes [TS]

00:24:16   blender they're flat-out unwatchable in [TS]

00:24:19   my opinion [TS]

00:24:20   um I like the characters more than any [TS]

00:24:22   other star track i realized that [TS]

00:24:24   subjective but i do think it has a much [TS]

00:24:27   more diverse cast than many other star [TS]

00:24:30   tracks [TS]

00:24:30   um yeah which i enjoy i also think that [TS]

00:24:34   the epic battles that they went up [TS]

00:24:37   against like to the board plot lines [TS]

00:24:39   were excellent and I just love this [TS]

00:24:42   entire series where they have an [TS]

00:24:44   overarching storyline and as they move [TS]

00:24:48   towards this storyline like you get more [TS]

00:24:49   technology and you get deeper into these [TS]

00:24:52   characters and you know Harry grows into [TS]

00:24:55   more than insecure incident yet Tom [TS]

00:24:58   Paris grows into a father in a you know [TS]

00:25:00   a loving husband and stuff like this [TS]

00:25:02   just reckless criminal spawn for all the [TS]

00:25:06   people right Voyager because they [TS]

00:25:07   haven't seen right right I they don't [TS]

00:25:10   deserve to be away of course they don't [TS]

00:25:12   get pretty much say any of the people [TS]

00:25:14   who hate it because they have seen it as [TS]

00:25:16   Worf would say there is no honor in [TS]

00:25:18   spoiler warnings you could say anything [TS]

00:25:22   about the six and seven seasons of [TS]

00:25:24   Voyager there are people who believe [TS]

00:25:25   that oh yeah that was applied [TS]

00:25:26   Wow go watch that but that's I mean it [TS]

00:25:29   doesn't matter how bad start your guts [TS]

00:25:31   it's always a base level of enjoyment so [TS]

00:25:33   i have to tell you guys when you say oh [TS]

00:25:36   I bailed out of that at that point [TS]

00:25:38   that's hard for me to understand because [TS]

00:25:40   even the worst star trek like [TS]

00:25:42   feel like I've watched all the animated [TS]

00:25:45   series because it's the cannon and I [TS]

00:25:47   want to understand it so it may not be [TS]

00:25:49   the cabin but you know that but there [TS]

00:25:52   are somebody else stands up something I [TS]

00:25:56   wanted to throw in an invoice defense [TS]

00:25:58   one of the problems that it ran into was [TS]

00:25:59   in some markets the station that was [TS]

00:26:02   carrying paramount was going erratic and [TS]

00:26:05   part of the reason that I dropped out of [TS]

00:26:06   it wasn't that I hated the show [TS]

00:26:07   necessarily though like a lot of Trek [TS]

00:26:09   fans at the outside of news stories [TS]

00:26:11   recorded 10 Gonzalo and grew but I [TS]

00:26:15   actually watched the pilot was like this [TS]

00:26:17   is actually pretty good [TS]

00:26:18   what are the one of these bad reviews [TS]

00:26:19   about what's the deal with this but then [TS]

00:26:21   they started bouncing around and I I had [TS]

00:26:25   trouble catching it wasn't as regular it [TS]

00:26:27   was it was not necessarily always the [TS]

00:26:29   same night the same time the way the TNG [TS]

00:26:31   in deep space nine work for me and of [TS]

00:26:32   course that got radically worse when [TS]

00:26:34   enterprise came around but i think that [TS]

00:26:37   was something that had unfairly going [TS]

00:26:38   for it just because it was it was not [TS]

00:26:41   always consistently airing in every [TS]

00:26:44   single market around the country even [TS]

00:26:45   even the pilot it deep the pilot did not [TS]

00:26:48   err where I lived I had to drive to a [TS]

00:26:50   friend's house in another state to watch [TS]

00:26:52   the pilot huh [TS]

00:26:53   and that was the first episode try to [TS]

00:26:55   disappointment haha it's got a metaphor [TS]

00:27:00   because he's traveling far away that he [TS]

00:27:02   couldn't get back an hour [TS]

00:27:03   that's right that took me seven years so [TS]

00:27:06   I'm not angry [TS]

00:27:08   that's a Voyager I'm just disappointed [TS]

00:27:09   in it because i think that it could have [TS]

00:27:12   been great and sure people can believe [TS]

00:27:16   that it is great because of course you [TS]

00:27:18   know This Is opinion but it wasn't and [TS]

00:27:22   that's unfortunate but what specifically [TS]

00:27:25   I wait I don't really like to understand [TS]

00:27:28   what you find bad about other than the [TS]

00:27:32   plots the characters of the concept is [TS]

00:27:34   pretty good [TS]

00:27:35   uh-huh what well yeah I i will suit so I [TS]

00:27:40   what I think and I was listening to your [TS]

00:27:42   random practice around and you were [TS]

00:27:44   talking about how you kind of I came to [TS]

00:27:46   you came to Voyager without like a super [TS]

00:27:49   encyclopedic knowledge of previous Star [TS]

00:27:50   Trek's right is that accurate scrap [TS]

00:27:52   ok so i think your context of seeing [TS]

00:27:54   Voyager has a clean slate was [TS]

00:27:56   is very different from the context of of [TS]

00:27:58   many people who had been watching since [TS]

00:28:00   the first year of next-generation for me [TS]

00:28:03   as somebody who's been watching star [TS]

00:28:05   track my all my life but especially [TS]

00:28:06   watching this this particularly this [TS]

00:28:09   production team produced this series of [TS]

00:28:11   shows i felt like the Voyager especially [TS]

00:28:15   a lot of the Brandenburg APIs odor Leon [TS]

00:28:17   I felt like they were sucking wind that [TS]

00:28:20   they literally like they had what they [TS]

00:28:21   had been working on the show on star [TS]

00:28:23   trek in various forms for more than a [TS]

00:28:25   decade and they had really run out of [TS]

00:28:27   ideas were scraping the bottom of the [TS]

00:28:29   barrel and we're recycling lots of old [TS]

00:28:31   plots from old star trek series so which [TS]

00:28:33   would've been recycled a couple times [TS]

00:28:35   before that already right soso and and [TS]

00:28:38   this is a theory I had it when I was [TS]

00:28:39   listening to random Trek episode is I [TS]

00:28:41   think maybe it was it was all new to you [TS]

00:28:44   and you didn't have that jaded feeling [TS]

00:28:46   that I had which is like oh good [TS]

00:28:48   Brandenburg is writing another one of [TS]

00:28:49   these episodes that he always writes Ron [TS]

00:28:51   Moore is writing another one of those [TS]

00:28:53   episodes that he always right and maybe [TS]

00:28:55   that's I mean maybe that's why the past [TS]

00:28:57   tense episode of deep space nine doesn't [TS]

00:28:59   bother because you know I've seen [TS]

00:29:00   sitting on the edge of forever but I [TS]

00:29:01   probably haven't seen out five times yes [TS]

00:29:03   is the suspect who [TS]

00:29:05   well the the singular nature of people [TS]

00:29:07   writing things is much more common in [TS]

00:29:09   british TV in the the star trek shows [TS]

00:29:11   were all writers room shows so just [TS]

00:29:12   because Ron Moore was credited as the [TS]

00:29:14   writers I mean it was a Klingon episode [TS]

00:29:16   yet he probably wrote every day yeah but [TS]

00:29:17   and Brandon braga always had a weird [TS]

00:29:19   thing involving time and you know but [TS]

00:29:21   the point is the this is largely the [TS]

00:29:24   same group of writers for like a decade [TS]

00:29:27   and any TV show that last decade unless [TS]

00:29:30   they totally turn over their writing [TS]

00:29:31   staff it's gonna you know it's sort of [TS]

00:29:33   declines over time because they sort of [TS]

00:29:35   done it all and they're trying to find [TS]

00:29:37   ways to stay novel and that was my [TS]

00:29:38   reaction to Voyager when it was on was [TS]

00:29:40   was not a problem with the characters [TS]

00:29:42   although yeah eric is kind of boring and [TS]

00:29:44   they do dumb things with Chakotay but it [TS]

00:29:46   was sort of like I felt like I i was [TS]

00:29:47   expecting this show to be different [TS]

00:29:49   because of the premise because they were [TS]

00:29:51   getting them out of the well-trod area [TS]

00:29:54   of deep space nine in next-generation [TS]

00:29:55   where we had seen everything and nothing [TS]

00:29:57   was on the frontier anymore and I felt [TS]

00:30:00   like what I got was a lot of rehashed [TS]

00:30:03   next-generation episodes which is a [TS]

00:30:05   waste of the premise so that was where I [TS]

00:30:08   came from when I was watching voyager I [TS]

00:30:10   didn't watch the last whatever two or [TS]

00:30:11   three years so you know again this is [TS]

00:30:13   something that is worth of netflix [TS]

00:30:15   revisit that was writing for that's a [TS]

00:30:16   really interesting opinion I thought of [TS]

00:30:18   it that way [TS]

00:30:19   yeah but when i when i got my hands on [TS]

00:30:21   the dvds that my brother loan to me I [TS]

00:30:24   dug into a lot of things that people who [TS]

00:30:26   picked out is really great seven of nine [TS]

00:30:28   episodes because the way that they [TS]

00:30:30   marketed her introduction of the series [TS]

00:30:32   turned me off in in respect that it just [TS]

00:30:35   it felt like they were going hey check [TS]

00:30:36   it out it's this girl and bodies organ [TS]

00:30:38   isn't she awesome isn't she gorgeous and [TS]

00:30:41   when I actually got to watch the [TS]

00:30:42   episodes she it's it's the extension of [TS]

00:30:45   the hue Eyeborg a thing from the annex [TS]

00:30:48   generation but with a remarkable amount [TS]

00:30:51   of depth that I couldn't possibly [TS]

00:30:54   imagine because of course I hadn't seen [TS]

00:30:56   the damn episodes and I think that [TS]

00:30:58   really is you know I people people with [TS]

00:31:01   very strong opinions about it have very [TS]

00:31:03   strong opinions about it i would say the [TS]

00:31:05   majority of people that really slam on [TS]

00:31:06   Voyager it has to be that most of these [TS]

00:31:10   people have not actually watched more [TS]

00:31:12   than maybe half a season with a purpose [TS]

00:31:14   well i would say you can watch a couple [TS]

00:31:15   seasons and be disappointed but it did [TS]

00:31:17   last 7 also i was going to mention that [TS]

00:31:19   I thought the monkey thing was a really [TS]

00:31:20   nice wrinkle and somebody in the [TS]

00:31:21   chatroom just mentioned it and that's [TS]

00:31:23   one of those words are disappointed me [TS]

00:31:25   in that they're there a while in the in [TS]

00:31:27   the helixes long episode you mentioned [TS]

00:31:29   this on random track it's like four [TS]

00:31:30   episodes in and they're like a happy [TS]

00:31:32   crew and it's like realities that like [TS]

00:31:34   you threw away a really interesting [TS]

00:31:35   character dynamic because you're afraid [TS]

00:31:37   you're going to have conflict it's it's [TS]

00:31:39   I just end and again that doesn't mean [TS]

00:31:42   the show wasn't good it means that I was [TS]

00:31:44   set up for disappointment because i had [TS]

00:31:46   expectations that were not that were not [TS]

00:31:48   met [TS]

00:31:49   no I think that's really fair i think [TS]

00:31:51   that's really fair I did say is just an [TS]

00:31:53   argument for it i think so it really [TS]

00:31:57   destroyed me about enterprise is I felt [TS]

00:31:59   like artistically and aesthetically I [TS]

00:32:02   think that show failed i think like the [TS]

00:32:05   look of the uniforms as bad i don't [TS]

00:32:07   think the amex design is particularly [TS]

00:32:08   good you just hate audiences with you [TS]

00:32:12   and just a nice but I feel like boys or [TS]

00:32:14   even like if you disagree with the plots [TS]

00:32:17   and all that date it is a really superb [TS]

00:32:20   startrack aesthetically I think the [TS]

00:32:23   voyager is the most beautiful star trek [TS]

00:32:25   ship except for maybe the Prometheus and [TS]

00:32:28   a few other designs i think if you just [TS]

00:32:31   look at the special effects in series i [TS]

00:32:33   think they're they're uniformly better [TS]

00:32:35   than anything except for the movies and [TS]

00:32:38   I just think week to week it had a [TS]

00:32:40   strong production night because like you [TS]

00:32:42   said Jason I'm looking at in Reverse so [TS]

00:32:45   I look at tos and it's really hard to [TS]

00:32:48   look past the editing of the Goron see [TS]

00:32:50   which is a jump you know however some of [TS]

00:32:53   the some of the makeup which is frankly [TS]

00:32:56   awful and to me it's kind of hard to get [TS]

00:32:58   past that limited production value as [TS]

00:33:01   you go backwards like the cg in the [TS]

00:33:03   first few seasons of TNG it's it's not [TS]

00:33:06   even half with no cgt it's just mine but [TS]

00:33:08   yeah well like the encounter at Farpoint [TS]

00:33:11   like you know that has a CG net out [TS]

00:33:13   there it's some songs today [TS]

00:33:15   oh no that's terrible right thats that's [TS]

00:33:17   almost it was almost entirely model [TS]

00:33:18   working yeah that was the brother was [TS]

00:33:20   not good that just cg fishing net thing [TS]

00:33:23   from space [TS]

00:33:25   Scott do you have are you signing onto [TS]

00:33:27   one of these series is as the best do [TS]

00:33:29   you have another choice [TS]

00:33:31   well i mean i think that deep space nine [TS]

00:33:34   is the best series but I've talked about [TS]

00:33:37   this before on Randy very soon [TS]

00:33:39   do you hear her there's I think the best [TS]

00:33:42   series and the one that you hold dearest [TS]

00:33:45   to you which might not be the best one [TS]

00:33:47   and for me that is the next generation [TS]

00:33:50   because that's when i first started [TS]

00:33:52   watching Star Trek and I got turned on [TS]

00:33:54   to it and so when I think Star Trek I [TS]

00:33:57   think jean luc picard I think Riker and [TS]

00:34:01   you know Deanna Troi and crush these are [TS]

00:34:02   the characters you mean star trek to me [TS]

00:34:04   so i will since Tony picked ds9 and even [TS]

00:34:08   though this is not a draft i will i will [TS]

00:34:09   wave the flag of the next generation for [TS]

00:34:12   bringing back all of the hope and the [TS]

00:34:15   promise that was in Star Trek and if you [TS]

00:34:17   get past the first season it's good and [TS]

00:34:20   pioneering a lot of things that became [TS]

00:34:22   staples of ds9 and four [TS]

00:34:24   major that followed at the cliffhanger [TS]

00:34:25   episodes the UH the the not necessarily [TS]

00:34:30   entirely self-contained stuff not going [TS]

00:34:32   all the way to the serialization that [TS]

00:34:33   came late in deep space nine and we got [TS]

00:34:36   bits of invoice juror and not very [TS]

00:34:39   well-executed bits of an enterprise [TS]

00:34:40   there there were there were things that [TS]

00:34:44   next generation inducted into the star [TS]

00:34:48   trek fabric that granted Roddenberry was [TS]

00:34:52   around for a good enough chunk of next [TS]

00:34:54   generation but he was involved enough to [TS]

00:34:57   a point that the writers room actually [TS]

00:34:59   got a chance to introduce some some [TS]

00:35:02   dangerous concepts and of course in the [TS]

00:35:04   case of best of both worlds something [TS]

00:35:06   that they thought they were all getting [TS]

00:35:07   fired and well we're probably not gonna [TS]

00:35:09   have to figure out a way to get out of [TS]

00:35:10   this or where to go after this so [TS]

00:35:12   screwed good luck to the next guy and as [TS]

00:35:15   a result of that kind of throwing [TS]

00:35:18   caution to the wind ended up doing this [TS]

00:35:21   stuff that made people love the show [TS]

00:35:23   we're staying safe and just trying to do [TS]

00:35:26   nothing but red TOS as they tried [TS]

00:35:29   repeatedly and poorly in the first [TS]

00:35:31   couple seasons just wasn't working some [TS]

00:35:33   of the failures that they saw a [TS]

00:35:35   next-generation for the reason that the [TS]

00:35:36   series that came after it existed so I i [TS]

00:35:39   wouldn't be able to pick deep space nine [TS]

00:35:41   different work for next-generation I [TS]

00:35:42   mean it came along and and really [TS]

00:35:44   cemented it as an industry to say it's [TS]

00:35:46   not just a bunch of people writing books [TS]

00:35:48   and comic books and trying to keep it [TS]

00:35:49   alive it's like no there's an audience [TS]

00:35:51   for this and they want more and they [TS]

00:35:53   want even more [TS]

00:35:54   yeah just playing devil's advocate I i [TS]

00:35:56   would actually bring TNG is probably the [TS]

00:35:59   second worst to the hilltop dr those is [TS]

00:36:03   Briana's list is the opposite of mine [TS]

00:36:05   essentially brianna is mirror universe [TS]

00:36:08   matter-antimatter cases i'm going to [TS]

00:36:11   grow a beard wait which one of you is [TS]

00:36:14   the good one is definitely jason says [TS]

00:36:16   that was wearing a sash then we'll know [TS]

00:36:17   did you know who's got an agony booth I [TS]

00:36:21   feel like because TNG is a product of [TS]

00:36:24   the eighties just like you can look at [TS]

00:36:26   voyager is very much product of the the [TS]

00:36:29   nineties and i feel i feel like i let [TS]

00:36:32   you know when you tune into like an [TS]

00:36:34   eighties action with a your kind of sick [TS]

00:36:37   surprised by how trusting and gleeful [TS]

00:36:41   and like believing of authority like the [TS]

00:36:44   people it is that there's a cheery trust [TS]

00:36:46   that's there that's a little modern and [TS]

00:36:49   do you know what I mean like there's a [TS]

00:36:50   that kind of b-movie quality to it and I [TS]

00:36:53   feel like that really exists throughout [TS]

00:36:55   TNG and I feel like if you're not [TS]

00:36:57   watching it having actually watched it [TS]

00:37:00   at the time I think you look back at it [TS]

00:37:02   and it's in this weird zone between like [TS]

00:37:06   TLS is so campy that you kind of like [TS]

00:37:10   just laugh at it because it's a it's an [TS]

00:37:12   example like sixties camp and it's [TS]

00:37:15   almost entertaining in the sexist [TS]

00:37:17   sometimes and then you have like you go [TS]

00:37:20   all the way forward and enterprises more [TS]

00:37:22   serious like it's full on dry and i feel [TS]

00:37:26   like because it was made in the eighties [TS]

00:37:28   in this in-between era of that doesn't [TS]

00:37:30   make sense to you like it's it's kind of [TS]

00:37:32   a little cheesy at times it's it does [TS]

00:37:35   have some really weird tone shifts where [TS]

00:37:37   it goes super goofy one episode and then [TS]

00:37:40   goes you know if we don't get this [TS]

00:37:42   treaty through the universe's do and [TS]

00:37:45   there's going to be war which we're not [TS]

00:37:46   going to do in this series we'll leave [TS]

00:37:47   that for deep space nine a series that [TS]

00:37:49   that openly courts conflict and actual [TS]

00:37:52   emotions and breakdowns of diplomatic [TS]

00:37:54   stuff we live in a utopian bubble where [TS]

00:37:56   there's nothing wrong and we don't even [TS]

00:37:57   have money will be yeah everything's [TS]

00:37:59   great [TS]

00:38:00   there's probably nothing on the fringe [TS]

00:38:02   that's different than this i mean it's [TS]

00:38:03   hard to pick apart the fact that the the [TS]

00:38:05   original series was first announced in [TS]

00:38:07   the sixties and next-generation was in [TS]

00:38:09   the eighties and early nineties and and [TS]

00:38:11   that by the time these other series i [TS]

00:38:13   mean the series were built on the backs [TS]

00:38:14   of those shows but at the same time they [TS]

00:38:16   were able to evolve and go beyond the [TS]

00:38:18   basic scope of Gene Roddenberry and that [TS]

00:38:20   makes them difficult to calibrate [TS]

00:38:23   because you know I i again i would i [TS]

00:38:25   would say that with next-generation [TS]

00:38:27   hadn't succeeded next generation is the [TS]

00:38:29   show that has in some ways the [TS]

00:38:31   second-biggest hold on popular culture [TS]

00:38:34   in that people really like that was a [TS]

00:38:37   breakout hit across a broad spectrum of [TS]

00:38:40   people but it also was the you know [TS]

00:38:42   eighties dentist office bridge and all [TS]

00:38:44   those things and and was Gene [TS]

00:38:46   Roddenberry's hand was on it [TS]

00:38:48   and you can feel that the the everything [TS]

00:38:50   is perfect and we wear jumpsuits when [TS]

00:38:53   they started to pry his fingers up after [TS]

00:38:55   eat sort of pulled back that's when he [TS]

00:38:57   got good that's when it got good and i'm [TS]

00:39:00   a star trek just like any science [TS]

00:39:02   fiction is best when it's reflecting the [TS]

00:39:04   culture that it's in so I mean this is [TS]

00:39:06   the original series deals with many [TS]

00:39:08   things that people were thinking about [TS]

00:39:09   the sixties and it was a very [TS]

00:39:10   progressive show for the sixties right [TS]

00:39:12   and and the next generations of its time [TS]

00:39:15   they're all of its time so it's hard to [TS]

00:39:17   tanaka show because it was made 45 years [TS]

00:39:20   ago [TS]

00:39:21   yeah well and and I mean I've been [TS]

00:39:23   looking at this for a while now just no [TS]

00:39:25   TV in general has I mean there's a real [TS]

00:39:28   growth of sophistication and [TS]

00:39:31   storytelling and style yeah yeah you [TS]

00:39:33   know so i can i can sort of step back [TS]

00:39:35   and go yeah it's it's they're wearing [TS]

00:39:38   pajamas its cardboard sets but I just [TS]

00:39:40   look past that like when I see the the [TS]

00:39:42   new remastered episodes of the original [TS]

00:39:46   series with the fancy effects and the [TS]

00:39:48   planets that look realistic and the the [TS]

00:39:50   swooping camera shots and it doesn't [TS]

00:39:52   look great because it doesn't match the [TS]

00:39:53   rest of the the aesthetic it's it's good [TS]

00:39:56   it's well done they did a great job but [TS]

00:39:59   it's not right it doesn't look right [TS]

00:40:01   I don't I don't mind you know I don't [TS]

00:40:03   mind the the cheesiness of it because [TS]

00:40:06   it's just it'sit's the story I you know [TS]

00:40:08   but there's a fit the story like you can [TS]

00:40:12   look at the best of TLS like which would [TS]

00:40:14   be wrath of khan which I know is a movie [TS]

00:40:16   but that was their best story and you [TS]

00:40:19   can look at the best of TNG which is [TS]

00:40:20   best about worlds are the best of inner [TS]

00:40:23   Voyager and there's a certain move [TS]

00:40:26   timelessness to the conflict and acting [TS]

00:40:29   and you completely buy into that [TS]

00:40:31   universe [TS]

00:40:32   whatever gets my message braces as i [TS]

00:40:34   watch TNG I feel like they're acting the [TS]

00:40:38   same way when I watch an eighties cop [TS]

00:40:40   show it feels like acting and I I think [TS]

00:40:43   it's best I don't feel that way but I [TS]

00:40:46   feel that way a lot watch it [TS]

00:40:48   so although i would say I I wouldn't [TS]

00:40:51   pick either one of those as the best [TS]

00:40:52   episodes of either one [TS]

00:40:53   it's okay we're gonna move on my set [TS]

00:40:57   Moyes is you already stipulated ds9 if [TS]

00:41:00   if I could the [TS]

00:41:01   the one thing that I had prepared that I [TS]

00:41:03   wanted to say about the space tonight [TS]

00:41:04   its brief ok it's actually a response to [TS]

00:41:08   to something that got thrown slung at me [TS]

00:41:10   i'll say in the chat room just now I [TS]

00:41:13   have been constantly accused of not [TS]

00:41:16   being a real star trek fan because i [TS]

00:41:17   love deep space nine and this is this is [TS]

00:41:20   something that I i take head-on as very [TS]

00:41:22   much the reason that I like the space [TS]

00:41:24   nine so much is that the things that [TS]

00:41:27   that a lot of people stand by as well [TS]

00:41:30   Roddenberry would not have liked that [TS]

00:41:31   show period end of story because the [TS]

00:41:34   future is a utopia and isn't going to be [TS]

00:41:36   great in the future when there is no [TS]

00:41:38   conflict and no conflict does not an [TS]

00:41:41   interesting story make the wrath of khan [TS]

00:41:44   is not a goes back 20 story if you if [TS]

00:41:48   you cite the the kind of classic things [TS]

00:41:51   that are the best examples of Star Trek [TS]

00:41:53   and things from tos and everything [TS]

00:41:55   really the best things from TOS that [TS]

00:41:58   people cite all the time are the times [TS]

00:42:00   when it broke pattern and actually made [TS]

00:42:02   a substantive change for the ongoing the [TS]

00:42:05   ongoing myth [TS]

00:42:06   sometimes I think people get into this [TS]

00:42:07   run Barry culture Roddenberry and what [TS]

00:42:10   they're really exciting is the first [TS]

00:42:11   season the next generation which is not [TS]

00:42:14   does not match up with the original [TS]

00:42:15   series in most cases either but that's [TS]

00:42:18   also i mean yeah that nobody gets to [TS]

00:42:21   tell anybody how to be a fan or what [TS]

00:42:23   their fandom is that just does not [TS]

00:42:24   allowed unless you accidentally pick [TS]

00:42:25   like sequence is your favorite I'm yeah [TS]

00:42:27   that's when you're out that you're [TS]

00:42:29   probably don't forget that don't and [TS]

00:42:31   some Darwinian my favorite character [TS]

00:42:33   yeah i like that i like the dolphin [TS]

00:42:34   character in sadar what you need and so [TS]

00:42:37   Darwin is that you have a name dammit [TS]

00:42:39   tony i do not know his name [TS]

00:42:41   I'm a real structure okay and he just [TS]

00:42:43   wants to understand what it is to be [TS]

00:42:45   human but I hate dolphins it's one of [TS]

00:42:47   those is definitely yeah racist honest [TS]

00:42:51   but when it really comes down to it the [TS]

00:42:53   the reason that i love deep space nine [TS]

00:42:54   so much is that you know the the things [TS]

00:42:57   that i mentioned a minute ago about it [TS]

00:42:59   not being not being afraid to keep you [TS]

00:43:02   off guard and have characters that were [TS]

00:43:05   not perfect [TS]

00:43:07   uh [TS]

00:43:08   echoes of characters that came before [TS]

00:43:10   next generation or TOS even in cases [TS]

00:43:13   where unfortunately that led to them [TS]

00:43:14   being cardboard for a while I Kira that [TS]

00:43:18   you didn't necessarily know what to [TS]

00:43:19   expect and different turns that [TS]

00:43:21   different characters might take whether [TS]

00:43:24   it was guest stars or core series [TS]

00:43:25   characters when it came to major [TS]

00:43:29   conflicts that erupted or divided [TS]

00:43:31   loyalties or just the the fact for me [TS]

00:43:33   the Deep Space nine was the first series [TS]

00:43:36   to really have an ongoing character like [TS]

00:43:38   Derek in it for me is what cemented it [TS]

00:43:42   as you know what this this is the one [TS]

00:43:44   that we'll see what happens after and [TS]

00:43:46   there are lots of things I like about [TS]

00:43:48   what came before but that was interested [TS]

00:43:51   in telling compelling stories that [TS]

00:43:54   decided that decided that it was okay to [TS]

00:43:56   turn conflict on its head and everything [TS]

00:43:57   didn't have to be black and white Cold [TS]

00:43:59   War good evil [TS]

00:44:01   alright I am going to stipulate the [TS]

00:44:03   original series as David did and say [TS]

00:44:07   that my second would like at like Scott [TS]

00:44:09   would have been the next generation so [TS]

00:44:11   totally mirror of Brianna up so let's [TS]

00:44:14   let's very quickly because we're gonna [TS]

00:44:16   run out of things to argue about if we [TS]

00:44:18   don't argue faster Tom Snyder with [TS]

00:44:21   series so let's talk about the let's [TS]

00:44:22   talk about the the work the worst series [TS]

00:44:26   we'll just throw bomb and walk away [TS]

00:44:28   quite frankly tell us why and then we'll [TS]

00:44:30   just move on to the next one but i'm [TS]

00:44:31   gonna let Brianna go first here so throw [TS]

00:44:33   it throw it go get quick stab me in the [TS]

00:44:36   heart to do is stand [TS]

00:44:38   I don't understand how reasonable adult [TS]

00:44:41   can fill that he left the best series it [TS]

00:44:44   is double let's flashback to when I [TS]

00:44:47   picked her cuz my favorite character and [TS]

00:44:49   I heard you gasped audibly his second [TS]

00:44:55   favorite character is misogyny okay look [TS]

00:44:58   just mathematically fact let me see my [TS]

00:45:01   husband's 14 years older than I am I [TS]

00:45:03   watched fds pls a lot [TS]

00:45:06   ok come home is watching I thought you [TS]

00:45:09   were gonna just started and stopped at [TS]

00:45:11   14 years old right haha [TS]

00:45:15   people's interpretation is that actually [TS]

00:45:17   oh no i've seen these upsets a lot more [TS]

00:45:21   kids my will frequently man i'm amazed [TS]

00:45:25   by how bad the average episode of TLS is [TS]

00:45:29   and there's a really good episode like [TS]

00:45:32   sitting on the edge of forever or [TS]

00:45:34   balance of power like when it's good [TS]

00:45:36   it's really good but you don't like the [TS]

00:45:39   editing is uneven special effects are [TS]

00:45:42   bad [TS]

00:45:43   the editing i can't say enough bad [TS]

00:45:45   things about the anything who edited the [TS]

00:45:48   Gorn fight [TS]

00:45:49   who in their right mind f is it that [TS]

00:45:51   when what world was exciting back i was [TS]

00:45:54   paid entirely in gin alley undergoing [TS]

00:45:56   find one of the one of the most iconic [TS]

00:45:58   fights not [TS]

00:45:59   yeah absolutely is it so far imagine how [TS]

00:46:02   bad everything else was that this was [TS]

00:46:04   good i think the Gorn fight actually was [TS]

00:46:08   a problem or with the coverage that they [TS]

00:46:10   shot than the editing because it's like [TS]

00:46:11   they got a guy who can't move in a big [TS]

00:46:13   costume and then i won't shatter running [TS]

00:46:15   around and got that gives rocks and [TS]

00:46:16   they're like I don't even know what to [TS]

00:46:17   do with this right i'm not sure the [TS]

00:46:19   editor is fault there anyway and get it [TS]

00:46:22   is iconic and i love it so there haha [TS]

00:46:24   you know [TS]

00:46:25   nostalgia is a hell of a drug yep it is [TS]

00:46:28   and i was going to say Brianna you with [TS]

00:46:30   the problem is you need to not watch [TS]

00:46:32   this under duress that that will cover [TS]

00:46:34   your entire experience shackles [TS]

00:46:37   generally have an adverse effect on your [TS]

00:46:38   opinion of something there [TS]

00:46:39   they're all good in their own way i like [TS]

00:46:42   all star trac period but I just I think [TS]

00:46:44   like as far as qualities the works there [TS]

00:46:47   are also barely any women in TLS and [TS]

00:46:50   this is why i think the movements are so [TS]

00:46:52   much better because they you know they [TS]

00:46:56   bring these complex to the forefront [TS]

00:46:58   um I actually think Star Trek on [TS]

00:47:00   whatever they call the new when they're [TS]

00:47:01   making that sound stage you're talking [TS]

00:47:03   about by introducing the counselor [TS]

00:47:05   character that raises my interest in the [TS]

00:47:08   series very sharply um but I just think [TS]

00:47:11   it's it's so campy it's so bad it's it's [TS]

00:47:16   I just I don't know how you can claim [TS]

00:47:19   this the best on track [TS]

00:47:21   all right your-your-your complaints are [TS]

00:47:22   noted okay Scotty duly noted Scott [TS]

00:47:26   layaway [TS]

00:47:27   what kind of universal million where [TS]

00:47:29   someone is pics favorite series a [TS]

00:47:31   Voyager least favorite of the original [TS]

00:47:34   where craziness this is bringing his [TS]

00:47:35   universe were all just living in it i [TS]

00:47:38   figured i was certain that we could all [TS]

00:47:41   agree on at least this that the without [TS]

00:47:44   a doubt the undisputed worst series [TS]

00:47:47   instructor history is enterprise you you [TS]

00:47:51   start with the theme song and that's [TS]

00:47:52   really my argument ends and started haha [TS]

00:47:55   that's about where i stopped watching [TS]

00:47:58   tips that works for me and Scott you [TS]

00:48:01   made the point on several episodes of [TS]

00:48:03   random correct you've got you've got [TS]

00:48:04   scott bakula who is a fairly win a [TS]

00:48:06   likable actor and you give him you make [TS]

00:48:09   him grumpy and unapproachable great idea [TS]

00:48:12   I think I say that all the time it's [TS]

00:48:14   like you take one of the most likable [TS]

00:48:16   you know I mean Sam want to believe it [TS]

00:48:18   will be a beautiful character [TS]

00:48:20   let's mammogram because yeah and he [TS]

00:48:23   never smiles the only time he ever has [TS]

00:48:25   fun is that mirror universe episode and [TS]

00:48:28   it's a blast [TS]

00:48:29   it's no good ok I think seasons three [TS]

00:48:34   and four of enterprise are underrated I [TS]

00:48:36   I'd radically underrated yes the lab [TS]

00:48:39   will that last season with Manny Coto [TS]

00:48:40   running it and and making it [TS]

00:48:43   let's pick up all the little threads [TS]

00:48:45   from the original series and make it [TS]

00:48:46   sort of the bridge to the original [TS]

00:48:48   series rather than making it i would [TS]

00:48:50   actually go and say this is one of those [TS]

00:48:52   examples to of the exhausted writing [TS]

00:48:54   staff because by those last two seasons [TS]

00:48:57   of of enterprise the exhausted writing [TS]

00:48:59   staff was gone and it was mostly newer [TS]

00:49:02   writers and you could see that they were [TS]

00:49:05   trying new things that bring brandon [TS]

00:49:07   Braga and Rick Berman were much less [TS]

00:49:09   involved or not involved and then they [TS]

00:49:10   came back for the finale which was [TS]

00:49:12   terrible the the thing the thing for me [TS]

00:49:15   with with enterprise is once Manny Coto [TS]

00:49:17   got the rains that show got [TS]

00:49:20   exponentially more consistent and yeah [TS]

00:49:23   it is why is why i will say loud and [TS]

00:49:26   proud code or GTFO it's it's too bad [TS]

00:49:28   that in fact ironically the show that i [TS]

00:49:31   didn't know why it existed right when i [TS]

00:49:34   got to the point where they cancelled it [TS]

00:49:35   was when I thought oh I actually like [TS]

00:49:37   watching this again and then it was gone [TS]

00:49:39   it was like Enterprise just got there [TS]

00:49:42   and they killed it and I wanted to learn [TS]

00:49:44   more about that temporal Cold War that's [TS]

00:49:46   oh my god so bad and and yet you know [TS]

00:49:48   the two partner in the mirror universe [TS]

00:49:49   was awesome [TS]

00:49:51   yeah it certainly had a high point so [TS]

00:49:53   I'm not gonna say was all bad and the [TS]

00:49:54   final season was great not just because [TS]

00:49:56   it was last season but going in that's [TS]

00:50:00   what we thought but it turned out it was [TS]

00:50:01   actually not bad [TS]

00:50:03   the best episode was the last because it [TS]

00:50:04   can start from 101 wait such a bad last [TS]

00:50:09   episodes and such a bad episode [TS]

00:50:11   yeah that's what it's got my I think you [TS]

00:50:13   think you made a popular choice but [TS]

00:50:15   let's move on moist you have a you have [TS]

00:50:16   a choice for worst Star Trek series you [TS]

00:50:18   can sign onto one of these if we have to [TS]

00:50:22   pick em you do it's it is our way if i [TS]

00:50:27   have to pick its I you know airing in [TS]

00:50:30   different markets and everything be [TS]

00:50:31   damned if i had to put Voyager [TS]

00:50:33   enterprise on an even keel [TS]

00:50:36   I unfortunately have to sign on with [TS]

00:50:38   enterprise to because when i actually [TS]

00:50:41   went back and watched the first couple [TS]

00:50:42   seasons of Voyager it's actually way [TS]

00:50:45   better than people had had said that it [TS]

00:50:48   was first couple seasons of enterprise [TS]

00:50:50   get endlessly mired in you know what we [TS]

00:50:53   need [TS]

00:50:53   guess what guys everything was building [TS]

00:50:55   a nice head of steam we had some great [TS]

00:50:57   character work going on we need to do [TS]

00:50:59   some of this boring temporal Cold War [TS]

00:51:01   crap again [TS]

00:51:01   yeah for no good reason and and it [TS]

00:51:05   showed how totally embattled that show [TS]

00:51:07   was where you know you look at the [TS]

00:51:09   special features on the blu-rays they've [TS]

00:51:11   been putting out where they've been very [TS]

00:51:12   candid about what a frog production it [TS]

00:51:14   was where they had like 25 year-old [TS]

00:51:16   executives in the network going [TS]

00:51:18   hey so is there like any way that we [TS]

00:51:21   could have their be like a band playing [TS]

00:51:24   on the ship where every week we have [TS]

00:51:28   like muse come in and they're like [TS]

00:51:31   future muse and play a song or something [TS]

00:51:34   that that that that Vulcan check is [TS]

00:51:36   pretty hot how about some like [TS]

00:51:38   decontamination shell that they could [TS]

00:51:41   get on naked and rub it on each other [TS]

00:51:43   that'd be cool man [TS]

00:51:44   I mean it could be like the Sailor Moon [TS]

00:51:46   transformation sequence but way [TS]

00:51:47   exploitive [TS]

00:51:50   ok so that's another vote for enterprise [TS]

00:51:52   another brick in the wall Tony what's [TS]

00:51:54   your what's your choice [TS]

00:51:55   I yeah i'll just throw another brick in [TS]

00:51:57   the wall is I don't think I've seen less [TS]

00:52:01   than one entire episode of enterprise so [TS]

00:52:02   that's not a spare but it on my break is [TS]

00:52:05   alright you you should see the mirror [TS]

00:52:08   episode it was that it was really [TS]

00:52:10   different [TS]

00:52:11   Brianna you've convinced me to give [TS]

00:52:12   voyageur a chance and I'm going to do [TS]

00:52:13   that already is that time I don't I [TS]

00:52:17   don't I don't need somebody coming out [TS]

00:52:18   of the woodwork as element enterprise [TS]

00:52:20   the only people i don't know really an [TS]

00:52:22   enterprise have taste profiles that are [TS]

00:52:24   not compatible as the night the most [TS]

00:52:28   diplomatic way huh [TS]

00:52:30   they don't like good stuff i have a [TS]

00:52:33   power song on my ipod for when I'm i do [TS]

00:52:36   you know when you're out running and [TS]

00:52:37   you're like I can't go any further and [TS]

00:52:39   then you'd like you kicking your power [TS]

00:52:41   song is the enterprise theme song for [TS]

00:52:44   the mirror mirror episode because it's [TS]

00:52:46   so awesome that you feel like the world [TS]

00:52:49   is gonna end i will check that out maybe [TS]

00:52:51   the best thing that ever prize has not [TS]

00:52:52   for us is a single mp3 file his goods up [TS]

00:52:56   the computer and the last yeah but last [TS]

00:52:58   season it's not added until the aliens [TS]

00:53:01   when it is very bad [TS]

00:53:03   yeah the lens I like to like it secretly [TS]

00:53:06   web i wish to Paul had been on deep [TS]

00:53:08   space 9 [TS]

00:53:09   she's good she was wasted character down [TS]

00:53:12   tremendously raised a lot of land [TS]

00:53:14   characters on enterprise though and and [TS]

00:53:16   then and then even like Scott Bakula [TS]

00:53:17   gets wasted but a lot of plans character [TS]

00:53:19   Porthos he's cute [TS]

00:53:20   you did nice dog but like Tucker and [TS]

00:53:23   tucker and and and travis and then I [TS]

00:53:28   mean we're gonna have another guy are [TS]

00:53:30   like all interchangeable boring guys I [TS]

00:53:32   do like dr. phlox well dr. phlox's fun [TS]

00:53:35   I'm supposed dog into space i mean the [TS]

00:53:38   Russians did that that's like show G but [TS]

00:53:40   like bringing a dog to the workplace [TS]

00:53:42   you're that guy who's got his dog in his [TS]

00:53:44   cubicle and then the it comes to [TS]

00:53:46   meetings with you [TS]

00:53:47   he's the captain to do it once yet you [TS]

00:53:49   know what I worked for that guy and that [TS]

00:53:50   was that [TS]

00:53:51   yeah I don't have don't need my escapism [TS]

00:53:53   to have that guy like I grew I grew up [TS]

00:53:56   with a beagle i have a beagle I would I [TS]

00:53:58   was like the captain has a friggin [TS]

00:54:00   beagle [TS]

00:54:00   come on guys that is such hardcore fan [TS]

00:54:03   service [TS]

00:54:03   in JJ Abrams first Star Trek movie [TS]

00:54:06   there's actually a reference to [TS]

00:54:08   enterprise of all things and it's that [TS]

00:54:11   Scotty reveals that he accidentally were [TS]

00:54:14   not actually he tested his transport [TS]

00:54:16   technology on Admiral archers beagle and [TS]

00:54:19   and and Kirk says what happened he says [TS]

00:54:22   I'll tell you when it reappears months [TS]

00:54:24   off from the animal of history aa-t you [TS]

00:54:27   killed the UQ technically they're not [TS]

00:54:30   eviscerated the patterns just a group [TS]

00:54:32   that integrated in the bumper that's the [TS]

00:54:34   way I want to go but I you know that [TS]

00:54:36   they will reappear in a Dyson Sphere [TS]

00:54:37   will be kind of find that the little [TS]

00:54:39   things that I did like about enterprise [TS]

00:54:40   unfortunately just those first two [TS]

00:54:42   seasons dragged down and possibly i [TS]

00:54:44   really did dig the idea of hey let's do [TS]

00:54:45   an away mission and wearing baseball [TS]

00:54:47   caps and we've got the dog it's you know [TS]

00:54:49   working like a barbecue later whatever [TS]

00:54:52   enterprise bitch you know I David what's [TS]

00:54:55   your choice i look at characters like [TS]

00:54:57   Neelix and Harry Kim and and Chakotay [TS]

00:55:02   and i still have to pick enterprise that [TS]

00:55:08   was close friend and I'll also the first [TS]

00:55:11   three seasons I just it is boring it is [TS]

00:55:15   it's just I don't know it's it's it's [TS]

00:55:21   like this time suck you know and I find [TS]

00:55:23   myself reading or you know hey once [TS]

00:55:25   what's what's over here and oh there's [TS]

00:55:27   still a show on ok watching episodes of [TS]

00:55:30   quantum leap you yeah well thinking [TS]

00:55:33   about how would this have been really [TS]

00:55:34   good if Sam Beckett leaped into Archer [TS]

00:55:37   and then he would be fun but you know [TS]

00:55:42   again once Manny Coto comes in [TS]

00:55:44   boom yeah I just too late and oh you let [TS]

00:55:51   it's just I can't I can't watch it [TS]

00:55:54   I mean I go back I'm picking a voyager [TS]

00:55:56   episodes that I haven't watched I still [TS]

00:55:58   can't get through that first couple of [TS]

00:56:00   seasons of enterprise you know I get how [TS]

00:56:02   I I watched one because it was on random [TS]

00:56:07   track and I wanted to be able to follow [TS]

00:56:08   the conversation and and it was fine [TS]

00:56:13   is that the one where dr. see where [TS]

00:56:14   everybody's asleep you [TS]

00:56:15   dr. flies good see that's what that's a [TS]

00:56:18   blog site before those has a good part [TS]

00:56:20   in that too [TS]

00:56:20   yeah and attempted to dream to play i'm [TS]

00:56:23   i'm there and then two-thirds way [TS]

00:56:26   through it goes oh by the way this is [TS]

00:56:28   still an enterprise plot and God would [TS]

00:56:31   eject you had you were going you were [TS]

00:56:33   going somewhere enterprises basically [TS]

00:56:35   gotten four votes out of out of out of [TS]

00:56:38   the five we've had so far so I think [TS]

00:56:40   it's with you it has won this election [TS]

00:56:41   of shame [TS]

00:56:42   so as a result from my pic as the last [TS]

00:56:45   voter i'm just going to take the [TS]

00:56:46   animated series because that's not even [TS]

00:56:47   star trek it doesn't even count [TS]

00:56:48   forget it Oh Cindy and James do James [TS]

00:56:52   doing does all the voices though all the [TS]

00:56:55   voices every last one so let's move on [TS]

00:56:59   it and we've been going for an hour so I [TS]

00:57:02   want this to move quickly there are not [TS]

00:57:04   that many to choose from [TS]

00:57:05   you're gonna you're gonna give me your [TS]

00:57:06   choice and a few sentences about it and [TS]

00:57:09   then everybody else just needs to we'll [TS]

00:57:12   just we'll do this quickly but we're [TS]

00:57:13   going to talk about the movies there are [TS]

00:57:14   many movies to choose from [TS]

00:57:16   I wanted i'm going to go through and ask [TS]

00:57:17   you for your favorite and then i'm going [TS]

00:57:19   to go through and ask you for what you [TS]

00:57:21   think the worst star trek movie is and [TS]

00:57:23   we're going to start with is the worst [TS]

00:57:26   the best start with the best we're gonna [TS]

00:57:28   end on a negative note so we'll start [TS]

00:57:29   with the best and this could be you know [TS]

00:57:34   again it's not the raft [TS]

00:57:35   what would you like to see what would [TS]

00:57:36   you like to speak for iris I was [TS]

00:57:38   waffling I was waffling between two [TS]

00:57:40   different ones and and I'm gonna get a [TS]

00:57:43   sailed again and I'm going to make a lot [TS]

00:57:45   of can add JJ Abrams is 2009 star trek i [TS]

00:57:49   legit try i hate my ssi I voice I have [TS]

00:57:53   thought about choosing that too actually [TS]

00:57:55   i will have watched that movie a lot [TS]

00:57:58   the reason i'm choosing a is because i [TS]

00:57:59   assume nobody else is going to choose [TS]

00:58:01   trippin because I because I dragon but [TS]

00:58:03   still yes okay well i know i'm just [TS]

00:58:05   saying it's it's it's something that I i [TS]

00:58:07   have a feeling somebody might pick it [TS]

00:58:08   for a different category about going to [TS]

00:58:10   say which category [TS]

00:58:11   no spoilers the thing that I love about [TS]

00:58:13   it is that it provides an entry point to [TS]

00:58:17   star trek for people who actively [TS]

00:58:18   actively resist getting anywhere near [TS]

00:58:21   star track for the longest time possible [TS]

00:58:23   now whether whether the the movie itself [TS]

00:58:25   is a Star Trek fans cup of tea for me [TS]

00:58:28   the [TS]

00:58:29   reason that I think it is the best movie [TS]

00:58:31   is because of the function that it [TS]

00:58:33   serves for the cannon as a whole it [TS]

00:58:36   provides an entry point for people that [TS]

00:58:38   were 0 star trek stupid surcharge boring [TS]

00:58:40   and granted it is not like a bunch of [TS]

00:58:43   other star trek but there is going to be [TS]

00:58:45   that person that gets into star trek [TS]

00:58:47   from the Abrams movies yeah that goes [TS]

00:58:50   back and looks at us and looks at eng [TS]

00:58:52   and destabilize the star trek is [TS]

00:58:54   something that you know what you [TS]

00:58:55   jackasses the nerds were right all along [TS]

00:58:57   its great distilled for me and we talk [TS]

00:59:00   about this when we talked about the [TS]

00:59:01   original series and Briana's reaction to [TS]

00:59:03   it all that this this movie distilled [TS]

00:59:06   for me what the things I loved about it [TS]

00:59:08   while bringing it into a modern context [TS]

00:59:11   it took those characters and and some of [TS]

00:59:13   the aspects of the show and said okay [TS]

00:59:15   it's been 50 years [TS]

00:59:17   let's take another crack at this and I [TS]

00:59:20   think successfully I wouldn't rank at [TS]

00:59:22   first but i would rank highly so thumbs [TS]

00:59:25   up [TS]

00:59:25   yes it would be and it would be in my [TS]

00:59:27   top three or four that that that mean [TS]

00:59:29   that is my base i think i've got a [TS]

00:59:31   number three in my in my list if I was [TS]

00:59:33   waking them so yeah if I were you if I [TS]

00:59:35   were picking personal favorite it would [TS]

00:59:37   probably end up being star trek six [TS]

00:59:38   interesting to tell Tony I your turn [TS]

00:59:44   yeah i will choose the blade home as out [TS]

00:59:51   oh no she was wrong LOL record is a lot [TS]

00:59:55   of fun i get dr. Hans but love whales [TS]

00:59:59   and [TS]

00:59:59   and [TS]

01:00:00   Darwin approves of your choice by the [TS]

01:00:01   way your favorite Star Trek character [TS]

01:00:03   from george clinton also if you through [TS]

01:00:06   no mom and you know maybe I'm channeling [TS]

01:00:09   a little bit too much my favorite movie [TS]

01:00:11   as opposed to the best movie i have seen [TS]

01:00:13   ifci watch that one more than any of the [TS]

01:00:16   other Star Trek movies even though I [TS]

01:00:18   prefer the next-gen movies but you know [TS]

01:00:20   when you look at your options for the [TS]

01:00:21   next ten movies your options aren't [TS]

01:00:23   great so i resorted to movies into [TS]

01:00:26   extended episodes and extended is [TS]

01:00:31   generous so I think this movie has a lot [TS]

01:00:33   of crossover appeal in terms of yes I [TS]

01:00:36   mean some people might even say like [TS]

01:00:37   well it's not a star trek movie because [TS]

01:00:39   normal people can like it but what I was [TS]

01:00:43   it was it was a hit yeah yeah we get all [TS]

01:00:45   the people and it's you know it's really [TS]

01:00:47   funny it still has cut you know neat [TS]

01:00:49   Star Trek story to it [TS]

01:00:51   um so yeah I love to isle of wight home [TS]

01:00:53   i'm ok with whales captain and I the [TS]

01:00:56   greater ringing have loaded with [TS]

01:00:57   colorful metaphor arms up [TS]

01:00:59   double double double dumbass on you boys [TS]

01:01:02   is I don't know why I picked you out I [TS]

01:01:04   feel like that doesn't one of the better [TS]

01:01:06   right time traveling back to like yeah [TS]

01:01:08   we conveniently shoot this in [TS]

01:01:09   present-day for budgetary reasons than [TS]

01:01:11   any other version of the head so San [TS]

01:01:14   Francisco i was born is born it has so [TS]

01:01:18   many great moments with scotty talking [TS]

01:01:19   through the mouth computers man yeah you [TS]

01:01:22   ten out will you [TS]

01:01:23   Kirk selling the classes that McCoy gave [TS]

01:01:25   him and spots like Captain that was a [TS]

01:01:27   gift and it will be able to think again [TS]

01:01:29   will be again was just dark ages [TS]

01:01:33   Abram sites there's a reference to this [TS]

01:01:35   and in the from star trek to because [TS]

01:01:37   there's the spock tell Scotty something [TS]

01:01:40   from the future about transwarp beaming [TS]

01:01:43   which is how Scotty invented it which is [TS]

01:01:45   just like when Scotty teaches the guy [TS]

01:01:46   how to make transparent aluminum it's [TS]

01:01:48   the same thing [TS]

01:01:50   Scotty captain of the USS paradox it [TS]

01:01:54   gets to be really funny but the [TS]

01:01:55   characters are still very much then the [TS]

01:01:56   tournament only have like McCoy and pies [TS]

01:01:59   that people are something like you know [TS]

01:02:00   they know really characters are wider [TS]

01:02:02   they're able to have funny things with [TS]

01:02:03   them dr. McCoy I always what is this [TS]

01:02:06   bizarre college yet doctor gave me a [TS]

01:02:09   pill grooming new kidney [TS]

01:02:10   I love that moment that [TS]

01:02:11   movement a little lady in the hospital [TS]

01:02:14   David what's your what's your choice a [TS]

01:02:17   wrath of God now hands down I can't you [TS]

01:02:21   know my second favorite star trek movie [TS]

01:02:23   is so far away from wrath of khan ality [TS]

01:02:26   because it's his operatic is the first [TS]

01:02:30   time Jim Kirk genuinely faces death and [TS]

01:02:33   faces something that learned something [TS]

01:02:35   and of course Jackie wins it back and [TS]

01:02:37   erases it and then the next movie but we [TS]

01:02:40   didn't know that then and you know it's [TS]

01:02:43   it's the one time we at least in the [TS]

01:02:46   movies where he has an adversary that's [TS]

01:02:49   worthy of him where he has to use his [TS]

01:02:51   brain and he can't just sleep with a hot [TS]

01:02:53   chick to get out of whatever it is you [TS]

01:02:56   know it's it's like you get to see him [TS]

01:02:58   as a tactical genius which he supposedly [TS]

01:03:01   is you get to see him playing poker [TS]

01:03:03   essentially and and you get Ricardo [TS]

01:03:06   Montalban chewing every inch of the [TS]

01:03:08   scenery the chapter hasn't you also get [TS]

01:03:10   his most mature relationship with a [TS]

01:03:12   woman with Carol Marcus and I mean [TS]

01:03:16   there's just there's so many levels to [TS]

01:03:18   it and and you know I credit nick meyer [TS]

01:03:21   with putting many of those levels in but [TS]

01:03:24   it is just I mean there are things that [TS]

01:03:27   that I still think about how they all [TS]

01:03:30   connect i still have huge chunks of the [TS]

01:03:33   dialogue stuck in my head I love all the [TS]

01:03:35   other good movies but that when I mean [TS]

01:03:39   that would be on my desert island discs [TS]

01:03:41   that would be one of the five i would [TS]

01:03:42   take the aisle I can't really watch it [TS]

01:03:44   because the seven years into skirt my [TS]

01:03:46   wife is the same way she saw when she I [TS]

01:03:48   don't want something crawling by ear and [TS]

01:03:50   they put your interest in our bodies [TS]

01:03:52   made us realize two things i have [TS]

01:03:56   extremely strong feelings about that i [TS]

01:03:59   just love the kirk and Carol Marcus have [TS]

01:04:00   sent everyone else off into the Genesis [TS]

01:04:03   coca and they have this really intense [TS]

01:04:05   you know like one of the most serious [TS]

01:04:06   conversations you ever seen Star Trek [TS]

01:04:08   and check out his lying in the back of [TS]

01:04:10   the cave going [TS]

01:04:11   don't make me listen to these kept in [TS]

01:04:14   too much information [TS]

01:04:16   he can't he can't hear anything is just [TS]

01:04:17   got done yeah he'll love this year I hit [TS]

01:04:20   the Rangers dream [TS]

01:04:22   yeah i think yes I of course David you [TS]

01:04:25   know we we did a whole episode about it [TS]

01:04:26   i'm going to their that's right Briana [TS]

01:04:28   what do you think i have to agree and [TS]

01:04:30   there's so few movies that are of that [TS]

01:04:35   quality the would not change a single [TS]

01:04:38   scene of them and I just you know I've [TS]

01:04:41   watched in Reverse like I mean you know [TS]

01:04:43   like I grew up in the nineties don't [TS]

01:04:45   love with Voyager and start watching the [TS]

01:04:48   original movies and it's it's just so [TS]

01:04:52   far and away the best script the best [TS]

01:04:55   acting um I just I couldn't say single [TS]

01:04:59   bad thing about it [TS]

01:05:00   the money is less scary if you watch in [TS]

01:05:02   Reverse too because the stuffing out of [TS]

01:05:03   bounds back online you detonate they say [TS]

01:05:07   people would argue that they doing at [TS]

01:05:09   the goodies and it ends when they [TS]

01:05:10   dropped car off on desert planet the end [TS]

01:05:12   I i literally cry every single time that [TS]

01:05:16   spot die like I don't work crush dancing [TS]

01:05:19   about this thing looks like i have never [TS]

01:05:21   cried in a movie theater [TS]

01:05:23   oh yeah the i mean the the moment I mean [TS]

01:05:27   I get sandwich spot guys it's when [TS]

01:05:29   Kirk's voice catches and you know is was [TS]

01:05:31   the most human human you know it's like [TS]

01:05:34   oh you know it for me it's the moment [TS]

01:05:36   where where where Kirk gets the call [TS]

01:05:39   better come down here [TS]

01:05:41   better yeah that's it starts now and he [TS]

01:05:43   looked at chairs and share is m times [TS]

01:05:45   no I'm getting chills right have to go [TS]

01:05:47   now Scott I like Star Trek to also [TS]

01:05:51   because the that's the first starter [TS]

01:05:53   where you feel like Kirk's actions [TS]

01:05:54   actually have consequences [TS]

01:05:56   yeah bad things just happen to you [TS]

01:05:58   because he's just been gallivanting [TS]

01:05:59   about the galaxy but I'm not gonna pick [TS]

01:06:02   it because it is in fact my favorite one [TS]

01:06:04   but i hope it sure you're gonna do what [TS]

01:06:06   I'm going to do which is just yeah okay [TS]

01:06:08   Scott and I are in complete agreement [TS]

01:06:09   then ok go Scott go go for it first [TS]

01:06:12   contact was I feel like generations is I [TS]

01:06:16   guess technically the first [TS]

01:06:16   next-generation movie but it had captain [TS]

01:06:18   kirk and Scotty was in it and he kinda [TS]

01:06:20   you know stole the show a little bit so [TS]

01:06:22   the really first next-generation move [TS]

01:06:25   for me was first contact yeah and it was [TS]

01:06:27   just fantastic a lot of fun i love the [TS]

01:06:30   Borg so anytime the board on a big [TS]

01:06:32   screen with a big-budget you've got me [TS]

01:06:33   sold the poor Queen is great creepy [TS]

01:06:35   character Zefram Cochrane is fantastic [TS]

01:06:39   yeah Troy getting drunk is fun reg [TS]

01:06:42   Barclay makes an appearance [TS]

01:06:44   yeah course little near and dear to my [TS]

01:06:46   heart is it a cinematic wonder know but [TS]

01:06:50   it's a lot of fun [TS]

01:06:51   jean-luc Picard goes crazy and and I [TS]

01:06:54   just like it it is my second favorite [TS]

01:06:57   star trek movie after wrath of khan i [TS]

01:06:59   feel like it gets short shrift people [TS]

01:07:00   kind of wave away the next generation [TS]

01:07:02   movies but it's a really really good [TS]

01:07:04   movie made on not a big budget but they [TS]

01:07:07   did they did a lot of help they did a [TS]

01:07:08   lot of good stuff with it's a great [TS]

01:07:10   combination of the you know it's time [TS]

01:07:12   travel back in time but it still in our [TS]

01:07:14   future [TS]

01:07:15   lots of fun lots of action a really [TS]

01:07:18   great action on the ship some great [TS]

01:07:20   character moments you bro you know I [TS]

01:07:22   must be drawn here you broke your little [TS]

01:07:23   ships all of that stuff I I do I'll i [TS]

01:07:26   love it i think it is i would rank its [TS]

01:07:28   second and then the JJ Abrams Star Trek [TS]

01:07:31   third but it is AC Picard's big old [TS]

01:07:33   biceps here over here include a great [TS]

01:07:35   great data moments there's that great [TS]

01:07:37   action sequence when they're out on the [TS]

01:07:39   deflector dish with Worf and he ties the [TS]

01:07:41   guys like arm around as a tourniquet and [TS]

01:07:44   oh my god [TS]

01:07:45   lots of great stuff in that and it's [TS]

01:07:47   worth mentioning you know it's not [TS]

01:07:48   raffiq on Deanna Troi getting drunk is [TS]

01:07:50   the most a woman gets to do in the next [TS]

01:07:52   generation movie so I'm with you [TS]

01:07:54   yeah well actually i like i like Alfredo [TS]

01:07:58   it watered it is kind of a thankless [TS]

01:07:59   part yet she was just being the moral [TS]

01:08:02   compass 44 Picard and that and yeah yeah [TS]

01:08:04   yeah she's more part comes for Picard [TS]

01:08:06   and Zefram Cochrane in fat which which [TS]

01:08:09   you don't know i can get to see and I [TS]

01:08:11   loved one should be bored is that sweet [TS]

01:08:13   yeah and for queen is a great for queen [TS]

01:08:15   is a great character Alex creek does a [TS]

01:08:16   really great job with the board queen [TS]

01:08:18   too [TS]

01:08:18   yeah yeah where's alfre woodard statue [TS]

01:08:20   in the star trek universe effort Cochran [TS]

01:08:22   got one [TS]

01:08:23   yeah yeah typical typical man they're [TS]

01:08:27   very post nuclear war of them to do that [TS]

01:08:29   it's it's a great example of what an [TS]

01:08:31   outstanding director Jonathan fresas [TS]

01:08:33   their hand and I'm I'm really it really [TS]

01:08:37   deeply bothers [TS]

01:08:38   that that that he basically you know he [TS]

01:08:42   got thrown to go here go to the [TS]

01:08:44   Thunderbirds movie after insurrection [TS]

01:08:46   now because he he is and he's to this [TS]

01:08:51   day one of the best sharpest TV [TS]

01:08:53   directors out there alongside of another [TS]

01:08:57   one of Star Trek colleagues roxann [TS]

01:08:59   dawson yeah so let's let's move on and [TS]

01:09:02   on a negative note we're going to let [TS]

01:09:03   everybody bring out your dead the star [TS]

01:09:05   trek movie that you could just can't [TS]

01:09:06   take David Laura we're going to start [TS]

01:09:09   with you for a long time for a long time [TS]

01:09:11   it was nemesis cos i mean there are two [TS]

01:09:17   good words in the whole film in there [TS]

01:09:19   Irving Berlin that's it but I thought [TS]

01:09:22   you were going to say blue sky do [TS]

01:09:25   god no i'm not in irving berlin and [TS]

01:09:29   anyway let me get the best scene in [TS]

01:09:32   emphasis was a deleted scene which would [TS]

01:09:35   have made the film marginally less awful [TS]

01:09:37   but the movie that right now for me I [TS]

01:09:43   cannot stand and and it's I've I flipped [TS]

01:09:47   on this in the last year is into [TS]

01:09:50   darkness [TS]

01:09:51   oh because because it has some great [TS]

01:09:55   stuff in it but the more i think about [TS]

01:09:57   it the less it makes sense and the thing [TS]

01:10:02   that pisses me off about it and boy this [TS]

01:10:04   pisses me off when the spoilers get out [TS]

01:10:08   about wrath of khan host box gonna dice [TS]

01:10:10   box gonna die you're supposed to die [TS]

01:10:11   halfway through the movie so nick meyer [TS]

01:10:14   shut it down rewrote the whole thing so [TS]

01:10:17   that it starts off with spot dyeing and [TS]

01:10:20   then [TS]

01:10:20   oh that must have been what they were [TS]

01:10:22   talking about so thats box actual death [TS]

01:10:24   at the end hits you even harder right [TS]

01:10:27   when the news got out about a Benedict [TS]

01:10:30   Cumberbatch's gonna be con what JJ [TS]

01:10:32   Abrams do he went [TS]

01:10:34   no he isn't and that's it and he kept [TS]

01:10:37   going with the movie had as if this was [TS]

01:10:39   going to be a big surprise [TS]

01:10:41   oh he's really con oh yeah I know I lied [TS]

01:10:44   to get back just makes me angry but I [TS]

01:10:48   love a lot of it [TS]

01:10:51   there are conflicting reports as to as [TS]

01:10:53   to the actual the actual everything that [TS]

01:10:55   happened behind the scenes in terms of [TS]

01:10:57   who wanted to keep what secret and who [TS]

01:10:59   wanted to make that character hold on [TS]

01:11:01   i'm just saying i do not lay all the [TS]

01:11:04   blame on JJ Abrams because he's the [TS]

01:11:05   director because this is something that [TS]

01:11:06   people do all the time the directors no [TS]

01:11:07   minors and fall for everything so we [TS]

01:11:09   hold on hold on i'm just saying well now [TS]

01:11:11   i know so what I'll say is I don't think [TS]

01:11:14   I don't think information roll out of a [TS]

01:11:16   movie is legitimate criticism of the [TS]

01:11:18   movie but your opinion is noted [TS]

01:11:20   Brianna to turn oh yeah oh it's it's [TS]

01:11:25   really top tough question [TS]

01:11:27   it's hard to be negative hard to choose [TS]

01:11:32   from many so many bad movies either way [TS]

01:11:33   for a long time it was the one with the [TS]

01:11:36   whales because I'm sorry [TS]

01:11:38   sony she doesn't even know the number [TS]

01:11:41   she doesn't even know the number help me [TS]

01:11:42   so dog [TS]

01:11:44   I'm sorry don't worry Tony this is a [TS]

01:11:46   safe place wait i have your time leaders [TS]

01:11:49   meeting about Star Trek for a voice on [TS]

01:11:51   the highway [TS]

01:11:53   what's not to love you sorry I'm amongst [TS]

01:11:55   people because someone threatening my [TS]

01:11:56   way its entire was very upset yeah it's [TS]

01:11:58   cool like being in a stolen Klingon shop [TS]

01:12:02   like that's kind of cool but it's just [TS]

01:12:05   so campy and like transparent aluminum [TS]

01:12:08   and it's it's just so much about is bad [TS]

01:12:11   but that's that like actually I've been [TS]

01:12:14   arguing with Frank my husband about [TS]

01:12:16   which was the worst and he actually made [TS]

01:12:18   me to watch all these along the number [TS]

01:12:20   you know again I again I am stir well as [TS]

01:12:23   the worst part but i'm going to have [TS]

01:12:25   that out like let's decide objectively [TS]

01:12:27   which one is worse and i don't think the [TS]

01:12:30   worst one I think that you have to say [TS]

01:12:33   star trek insurrection is the worst one [TS]

01:12:36   on everything for data like because it [TS]

01:12:40   used as a flotation device from from you [TS]

01:12:44   know two women took out their boobs [TS]

01:12:46   being Farber to like either plastic [TS]

01:12:49   surgeons as oh yeah very poor hands [TS]

01:12:53   and with the staple gun yeah oh it's [TS]

01:12:56   going on blemishes it's bad but every [TS]

01:12:59   conceivable angle that could be bad and [TS]

01:13:01   I understand what they were going for [TS]

01:13:03   like a dark Federation was making [TS]

01:13:06   difficult choices because they're about [TS]

01:13:07   to lose that's a cool idea for series [TS]

01:13:11   and I got the the design of the [TS]

01:13:13   enterprise was actually one of the best [TS]

01:13:15   ships and all star track but it just it [TS]

01:13:18   fails in every way moving into the hell [TS]

01:13:21   i don't think there's much you can say [TS]

01:13:22   something about it [TS]

01:13:24   yeah yep that's not a good one Scott [TS]

01:13:27   what's your what's your choice [TS]

01:13:29   well now I'm questioning my choice [TS]

01:13:30   because I agree with bri haha don't know [TS]

01:13:34   what's going on but instruction uh is [TS]

01:13:37   awful awful awful it's boring [TS]

01:13:40   it makes little sense and it is just [TS]

01:13:44   don't watch it and it's it's even worse [TS]

01:13:47   than Star Trek five [TS]

01:13:49   yeah that's saying I'm not saying [TS]

01:13:51   something is aa is what do you think [TS]

01:13:54   enough people who said insurrection I'm [TS]

01:13:57   gonna go with the one that that for me [TS]

01:13:58   is worst totally for sentimental reasons [TS]

01:14:00   and not not because of the qualitative [TS]

01:14:04   judgment i have for it and it's also the [TS]

01:14:06   reason that i can't i can't say wrath of [TS]

01:14:08   khan is my favorite one of the movies [TS]

01:14:09   anymore my younger brother and I watched [TS]

01:14:13   all these movies all the time he was [TS]

01:14:15   autistic and Star Trek was one of things [TS]

01:14:17   he loved deepest and most dearly on the [TS]

01:14:20   planet and I in things about 2010 he got [TS]

01:14:24   cancer and my mom went on this tour of [TS]

01:14:27   taking in Star Trek conventions and [TS]

01:14:29   paying the absorbent amount of money so [TS]

01:14:31   that he could see all the actors in the [TS]

01:14:33   and take pictures with them and do that [TS]

01:14:35   kind of thing and he was particularly [TS]

01:14:37   fixated on the the heat the the magical [TS]

01:14:42   device of star trek 3 reviving Spock as [TS]

01:14:45   he was clinging to this kind of you know [TS]

01:14:47   reincarnation thing there was no way [TS]

01:14:49   that he was going to you know lose to [TS]

01:14:51   cancer and that sort of thing [TS]

01:14:53   well and I the thing the thing that just [TS]

01:14:57   makes it to wear for me I just can't I [TS]

01:15:00   can't watch it which you know could be [TS]

01:15:02   related to the same reason a lot of [TS]

01:15:04   people dislike them because we go it's [TS]

01:15:06   just [TS]

01:15:06   cop out nobody really dies in this [TS]

01:15:08   universe is that he finally went and saw [TS]

01:15:11   William Shatner in the show and he you [TS]

01:15:15   know that the captain got briefed on [TS]

01:15:16   what was going on with my brother any he [TS]

01:15:19   said I need you to look me right now and [TS]

01:15:22   i'm going to give you a direct order and [TS]

01:15:24   I need you to need to listen to your [TS]

01:15:26   mother an initiative to be to be well [TS]

01:15:29   behaved and fight the cancer fight it [TS]

01:15:31   and it like it was it was like a like a [TS]

01:15:34   dollar wrath of khan level of conviction [TS]

01:15:36   that he gave this thing and and for me [TS]

01:15:41   it's it's emblematic and we're just [TS]

01:15:43   talking about any part of Star Trek or [TS]

01:15:45   Star Wars or anything what we consider [TS]

01:15:46   best and worst there those really deeply [TS]

01:15:49   subjective things about them that aside [TS]

01:15:52   from creaky production values or overtly [TS]

01:15:55   misogynist narratives or you know [TS]

01:15:59   favorite characters being mistreated or [TS]

01:16:00   something like that you know that for me [TS]

01:16:04   makes me reflect on on the way that I [TS]

01:16:07   feel about all of this stuff and and [TS]

01:16:10   made me think about things through it [TS]

01:16:11   through a different lens in terms of [TS]

01:16:13   what I like and what I don't like and [TS]

01:16:15   the reasons that i'm convinced that I [TS]

01:16:17   like or don't like them and I probably [TS]

01:16:19   brought the room way way down against on [TS]

01:16:21   it honey and honey totally unfun path [TS]

01:16:23   but but for me it's when I think about [TS]

01:16:27   worst or that i liked the least because [TS]

01:16:31   I have such deep personal connection so [TS]

01:16:33   many bits of of track that's that's [TS]

01:16:37   where my head goes well alright thanks [TS]

01:16:39   for sharing that much as I appreciate it [TS]

01:16:41   Tony what's your deeply personal story [TS]

01:16:44   no I'm sorry [TS]

01:16:45   don't even try that is what do you got [TS]

01:16:47   what movie do not like what show us on [TS]

01:16:49   the dolphin where they do that you know [TS]

01:16:54   you can't trust a dolphin [TS]

01:16:55   I yeah I never trusted often they're [TS]

01:16:57   like sharks swimming without with smiles [TS]

01:17:00   um sorry um alright i will go for big we [TS]

01:17:06   we beat on interaction and nemesis a [TS]

01:17:09   bunch which they totally deserve the [TS]

01:17:11   other star trek movie that I cannot make [TS]

01:17:13   it through rewatching that does not have [TS]

01:17:16   used in it [TS]

01:17:17   Star Trek the motion power yeah [TS]

01:17:19   real home which I think it's just yeah [TS]

01:17:22   the motionless picture and like our for [TS]

01:17:24   there's an eel I I think it's just it's [TS]

01:17:27   really boring [TS]

01:17:29   it has all these extended [TS]

01:17:30   special-effects sequences that maybe [TS]

01:17:32   we're really exciting at the time didn't [TS]

01:17:34   know just they weren't eight no okay i I [TS]

01:17:37   don't I mean yeah and there's a lot of [TS]

01:17:39   there's a lot of shots of people [TS]

01:17:40   watching the extended special-effects [TS]

01:17:42   sequences and no it's got a minute it's [TS]

01:17:45   also i mean the saddest thing about it [TS]

01:17:47   is like this was like Star Trek after [TS]

01:17:49   there was no star trek for 10 years [TS]

01:17:51   right yeah and this basically ends up [TS]

01:17:52   being Star Trek's the Phantom Menace [TS]

01:17:54   because there's so much for the good [TS]

01:17:57   parts of the original series that is [TS]

01:18:00   stripped out of this right i mean it's [TS]

01:18:03   not fun it's not very interesting [TS]

01:18:06   there's some kind of neat cerebral stuff [TS]

01:18:08   with with the plot but even the plot is [TS]

01:18:09   kind of a retread of they've already [TS]

01:18:11   done this episode of classic track right [TS]

01:18:13   and then yeah this movie is more than [TS]

01:18:15   two hours long [TS]

01:18:16   when guess what there was about as much [TS]

01:18:18   plot as one episode of classic track so [TS]

01:18:21   i just find it really boring and just [TS]

01:18:24   devastatingly disappointing after 10 [TS]

01:18:26   years without star track it's a bad it's [TS]

01:18:28   a bad movie I think 2i and I and yet I [TS]

01:18:31   feel like there's probably a decent [TS]

01:18:32   movie in it and there's a director's cut [TS]

01:18:34   version that is better than the original [TS]

01:18:36   that was really about 65 know what order [TS]

01:18:40   it's shorter I you know they spent a lot [TS]

01:18:42   of money on those effects and the whole [TS]

01:18:44   idea was like oh Star Wars got effects [TS]

01:18:45   we got this big model we can make these [TS]

01:18:46   beautiful model shots of the enterprise [TS]

01:18:48   and let's show them all with music [TS]

01:18:50   playing and it goes on in fact many of [TS]

01:18:52   the shots are reused at the beginning of [TS]

01:18:54   star trek to the wrath of khan and those [TS]

01:18:56   are the most boring scenes in Wrath of [TS]

01:18:57   Khan and they're just tiny clips fri [TS]

01:19:00   mother that is physically executive ran [TS]

01:19:02   a formula and determine the starship [TS]

01:19:04   track the motion picture would be great [TS]

01:19:06   oh my god and so so I really I really [TS]

01:19:08   agree with you about that although i [TS]

01:19:09   feel like there is a better movie in [TS]

01:19:11   here then even the director's cut if [TS]

01:19:14   there had been more restraint with the [TS]

01:19:16   editing and reduced it wouldn't have [TS]

01:19:18   been a great movie but it would've been [TS]

01:19:19   better i mean it you can you can talk [TS]

01:19:21   about some of the issues with Decker and [TS]

01:19:24   I Leia and how this is a retread of that [TS]

01:19:26   changeling episode with Nomad right it's [TS]

01:19:29   just it's not it's not that different [TS]

01:19:31   and it's sort of Roddenberry [TS]

01:19:33   it is worst to and it is a TV script [TS]

01:19:35   actually from their failed reboot in the [TS]

01:19:38   seventies of Star Trek and so there [TS]

01:19:40   isn't anything they're teaching you got [TS]

01:19:43   a new script for us [TS]

01:19:44   hold on a minute let me brush the dust [TS]

01:19:46   off of this one is about 30 years old [TS]

01:19:48   well no no in fact that this was more [TS]

01:19:50   like they they were going to try to your [TS]

01:19:52   TV network and it failed and it but they [TS]

01:19:54   have the script and they had two sets [TS]

01:19:56   and I like well then let's just do a [TS]

01:19:58   movie and they as we've got all these [TS]

01:19:59   sets from Genesis to know that they were [TS]

01:20:02   star trek phase to set [TS]

01:20:04   yeah they were gonna make engine [TS]

01:20:05   transmission and still through and they [TS]

01:20:08   reused this script and a root reused [TS]

01:20:10   actually a couple other scripts for next [TS]

01:20:11   generation episode and they were like [TS]

01:20:13   let's cash you know this the star wars [TS]

01:20:14   think the kids are india exactly one of [TS]

01:20:16   the things that generally fascinated me [TS]

01:20:18   is that the Warner Archive Collection is [TS]

01:20:19   put out on DVD some of the various TV [TS]

01:20:22   pilots of Gene Roddenberry's that [TS]

01:20:23   totally failed promises to what question [TS]

01:20:26   tapes all those are you guys are under [TS]

01:20:28   all the horrible shows that were on in [TS]

01:20:30   like the mid-nineties that were Gene [TS]

01:20:31   Roddenberry something Andromeda yeah [TS]

01:20:34   inspired by a note that you're very like [TS]

01:20:36   fight club with its grocery list that [TS]

01:20:37   actually a drama and drama wasn't that [TS]

01:20:40   wasn't that bad show it was it would [TS]

01:20:42   have been better as a star trek show [TS]

01:20:43   because the whole idea was what if the [TS]

01:20:46   enterprise got cotton around like a [TS]

01:20:48   black hole and came out of like a [TS]

01:20:51   thousand years later and the Federation [TS]

01:20:52   had fallen apart [TS]

01:20:54   it was kind of a neat idea you know and [TS]

01:20:56   then it was like kevin sorbo and yeah [TS]

01:20:58   well you know it was a syndicated [TS]

01:21:00   weekend TV show can i end this on a [TS]

01:21:03   positive note about that would they know [TS]

01:21:05   what do you know about motion picture [TS]

01:21:07   and I will finish us off by taking [TS]

01:21:09   negative again but go ahead [TS]

01:21:10   oh yeah feat b.o.b retail diverse it's [TS]

01:21:16   like nemesis but on a podcast [TS]

01:21:18   no I i obviously great it's not it [TS]

01:21:22   doesn't fit in the the star trac feel [TS]

01:21:24   you know overall i said i do think there [TS]

01:21:28   is some good in this video I think the I [TS]

01:21:31   think the Decker Kirk scenes are [TS]

01:21:34   amazingly tense man I just I feel it [TS]

01:21:39   when chapters at the top of his game and [TS]

01:21:42   he's really acting i think is really [TS]

01:21:44   good i think it sucks for [TS]

01:21:46   student teaching no no that's not it was [TS]

01:21:50   not going to talk about his writing [TS]

01:21:51   right but i really like I think those [TS]

01:21:55   scenes in the friction between them are [TS]

01:21:57   really intense yeah it's good filming I [TS]

01:22:00   think for a sound design perspective um [TS]

01:22:03   of course like the endless shots of cg [TS]

01:22:05   MCG like shots going through through [TS]

01:22:08   space set to classical music or bad but [TS]

01:22:12   I think like this scene where you know [TS]

01:22:14   time is slowing down is dilating [TS]

01:22:17   decorative place the order so they fired [TS]

01:22:19   over on whether in the wormhole [TS]

01:22:21   yeah I think that's a really cool [TS]

01:22:24   example of sound design building [TS]

01:22:26   attention in the scene in a way that you [TS]

01:22:28   could never ever ever ever ever making [TS]

01:22:32   2014 movie and I it's cool i think it's [TS]

01:22:35   retro cool in the same way to think to [TS]

01:22:37   us is sometimes retro-cool it bothers me [TS]

01:22:39   because I felt like there was no reason [TS]

01:22:40   for that to even happen other than that [TS]

01:22:43   they wanted to do something cool with [TS]

01:22:44   the warp drive that we haven't seen [TS]

01:22:45   before like oh the warp drive wasn't set [TS]

01:22:48   up right so we had a wormhole but now [TS]

01:22:50   we're fine [TS]

01:22:50   okay yeah my negativity is gonna be I do [TS]

01:22:54   it look like i said i think there's some [TS]

01:22:56   stuff that can be salvaged out of the [TS]

01:22:57   movie i think that it needed and edit [TS]

01:22:59   that I'm gonna pick the final frontier [TS]

01:23:02   only because everybody has already [TS]

01:23:03   picked my number one pick which was [TS]

01:23:04   insurrection which is really truly bad [TS]

01:23:07   and nemesis is also not very good but [TS]

01:23:09   III can't endorse it as the worst only [TS]

01:23:11   because it is literally the only well [TS]

01:23:14   notice the final frontier nemesis of the [TS]

01:23:16   only star trek movies i've only seen [TS]

01:23:17   once i saw final frontier in in the [TS]

01:23:21   movie theater [TS]

01:23:23   it is not good and it's so not good in [TS]

01:23:26   so many ways the direction is bad some [TS]

01:23:28   of the character interactions ok some of [TS]

01:23:30   the broad comedy like when Scotty walks [TS]

01:23:32   into that pipe that is so awful all and [TS]

01:23:36   and the special effects are [TS]

01:23:37   spectacularly bad the story is that the [TS]

01:23:38   guy who was supposed to do them and took [TS]

01:23:41   their money didn't come through with a [TS]

01:23:43   special effects and so in desperation [TS]

01:23:45   they went to industrial light and magic [TS]

01:23:46   and said we need we need help and the [TS]

01:23:49   the release date is this and they all [TS]

01:23:51   laughed and said ok well here's what we [TS]

01:23:53   can do we can whip up some some basic [TS]

01:23:55   stuff from our archive or maybe a few [TS]

01:23:56   shots really quickly but you gotta give [TS]

01:23:58   us like the conch [TS]

01:23:59   back for the next star trek movie and [TS]

01:24:01   pay us in advance for that and then [TS]

01:24:03   we'll do both or something this is the [TS]

01:24:05   story and as a result there's some great [TS]

01:24:06   shots in Star Trek five of the [TS]

01:24:08   enterprise like hanging in space at a [TS]

01:24:11   weird angle that doesn't make any sense [TS]

01:24:12   and why are they like that and is it [TS]

01:24:14   just an error and the answer is yeah [TS]

01:24:16   pretty much it is they they've had no [TS]

01:24:17   special effects and didn't know what [TS]

01:24:19   they were doing [TS]

01:24:20   Jason why don't I pour you some of this [TS]

01:24:22   Kentucky whiskey and you tell us how you [TS]

01:24:23   really what wasn't [TS]

01:24:25   what does God need with a spaceship good [TS]

01:24:26   question uh question what does God need [TS]

01:24:29   with this exam and then there's this [TS]

01:24:31   movie and Sybok I i decry the existence [TS]

01:24:34   of Sybok your pain Jason and oh man oh [TS]

01:24:38   so i am going to my pain i'm gonna gonna [TS]

01:24:41   throw in a vote for structured five [TS]

01:24:43   satins finally I remember being a child [TS]

01:24:44   watching that and do not feel too bad [TS]

01:24:47   about watching a movie [TS]

01:24:49   this is not good plot is bad ever had [TS]

01:24:53   that feeling yeah I'd like everything [TS]

01:24:54   was great yeah oh yeah i was very dumb [TS]

01:24:57   as a kid my dad took me to see it in the [TS]

01:24:59   theater and he fell asleep and yeah and [TS]

01:25:02   when I noticed he was asleep it was [TS]

01:25:04   during like the climax of the movie i [TS]

01:25:06   woke him up and he leaned over too many [TS]

01:25:08   years like it we should both take a nap [TS]

01:25:11   yeah not although it has a pool table [TS]

01:25:17   that is actually pool and they play a [TS]

01:25:19   game on it [TS]

01:25:20   meeting my idea flashes put so hers [TS]

01:25:23   burlesque background into Canada oh [TS]

01:25:24   that's right so that's that one right so [TS]

01:25:28   what we didn't get to this time is best [TS]

01:25:30   and worst captain overrated and [TS]

01:25:32   underrated episodes and we didn't even [TS]

01:25:35   get on to things like alien races which [TS]

01:25:38   we also need to do so you know what's [TS]

01:25:39   gonna have to happen next we're gonna [TS]

01:25:41   have to do another one of these [TS]

01:25:42   sometimes haha yeah we will continue [TS]

01:25:44   best and worst star trek debate club at [TS]

01:25:46   another time but this has been pleasure [TS]

01:25:49   and it's getting late so we're going to [TS]

01:25:50   wrap it up here [TS]

01:25:52   thank you to my guess Brianna Wu a [TS]

01:25:56   pleasure as always even though i am from [TS]

01:25:59   mirror universe i look forward to the [TS]

01:26:02   angry tweets man you know there's [TS]

01:26:04   nothing I gamergate is nothing compared [TS]

01:26:07   to start practicing this is what I just [TS]

01:26:09   warmin up [TS]

01:26:10   No [TS]

01:26:11   yeah that will be next anyone and I [TS]

01:26:12   don't even say I don't want to go David [TS]

01:26:15   Laura thank you thank you is to you on [TS]

01:26:18   it's a pleasure as always thanks for [TS]

01:26:20   having me i don't know what anybody else [TS]

01:26:21   is worried about I different Deep Space [TS]

01:26:23   Nine and JJ Abrams ah this is true this [TS]

01:26:25   is true [TS]

01:26:26   Tony sindelar thank you so much for [TS]

01:26:29   being here and sharing your your your [TS]

01:26:31   pain and your love whales and dolphins [TS]

01:26:33   with us [TS]

01:26:35   I'm judgment I don't know what to look [TS]

01:26:36   anymore yeah I know I know and Scott [TS]

01:26:40   McNulty you you have been and will [TS]

01:26:42   always be my friend i was going to say [TS]

01:26:45   that to you Jason [TS]

01:26:46   well then say it well now you've done it [TS]

01:26:49   i I'm just perplexed but that people [TS]

01:26:51   have opinions that are different than my [TS]

01:26:52   own doesn't doesn't compete [TS]

01:26:54   let's just start around roederer hair [TS]

01:26:57   our air our I just like this initially [TS]

01:27:00   record i'm pro whale anti dull and dr. [TS]

01:27:03   Neil Baxter all right setting no I mean [TS]

01:27:06   said yeah yeah no other seals your [TS]

01:27:09   neutral on I i think to be that now that [TS]

01:27:12   we've all had it out let's go have some [TS]

01:27:14   tranya [TS]

01:27:15   I hope you relish it as much as I oh my [TS]

01:27:19   oh my [TS]

01:27:20   and to everybody out there thank you for [TS]

01:27:22   listening to the latest edition of best [TS]

01:27:26   worsen surgery debate club or whatever [TS]

01:27:28   we call it will be back for more at a [TS]

01:27:31   future time because we just can't stop [TS]

01:27:33   we'll see you next time [TS]

01:27:54   everybody just a reminder check out the [TS]

01:27:57   incomparable dot-com for many other [TS]

01:27:59   great podcast that you like including [TS]

01:28:02   scott McNulty's random track which is [TS]

01:28:03   about Star Trek TV we're breaking down [TS]

01:28:06   every episode of doctor who this season [TS]

01:28:08   and also sons of anarchy total party [TS]

01:28:10   killer D&D podcast the brand-new TV talk [TS]

01:28:14   machine where i talk to Tim Goodman at [TS]

01:28:16   the hollywood reporter about what's [TS]

01:28:17   notable on television and we're even [TS]

01:28:20   teasing a new season of the [TS]

01:28:22   uncomfortable radio theater coming soon [TS]

01:28:25   also be sure to check out my website six [TS]

01:28:28   colors dot-com its new i don't work for [TS]

01:28:31   mac world anymore and I appreciate your [TS]

01:28:33   support [TS]