The Incomparable

214: Fun is Underrated


00:00:02   the incomparable number 214 October 2014 [TS]

00:00:09   welcome back everybody to be [TS]

00:00:12   uncomfortable i'm your host Jason still [TS]

00:00:13   it is an addition of our book club so I [TS]

00:00:18   have called some readers together and [TS]

00:00:20   what we're going to be talking about in [TS]

00:00:22   this episode is a series of books with [TS]

00:00:25   some light spoilers but we are going to [TS]

00:00:26   blow the spoiler horn and then we'll [TS]

00:00:29   tell you when you can come back later [TS]

00:00:31   late to find out what we're reading but [TS]

00:00:33   a series of books they're currently four [TS]

00:00:35   novels in this series the the series is [TS]

00:00:38   called the expanse the author is James [TS]

00:00:40   sa Corey who is not a person because [TS]

00:00:42   it's actually two guys Daniel Abraham [TS]

00:00:44   anti-french the protomolecule he's [TS]

00:00:46   saying that it's not really no [TS]

00:00:49   oh and the the novels are Leviathan [TS]

00:00:52   wakes caliban's war avignon skate and [TS]

00:00:54   cebolla burn some of us have read all of [TS]

00:00:57   them some of some red sort of one of [TS]

00:01:00   them and one ish and in between so I I [TS]

00:01:06   guess I mean between i read three plus [TS]

00:01:08   of them i'm reading the fourth one now [TS]

00:01:09   anyway I really fun series we recommend [TS]

00:01:12   it highly we'll talk about it a little [TS]

00:01:14   bit before we blow the spoiler horn off [TS]

00:01:16   and joining me when I say we I mean Dan [TS]

00:01:20   Moore and welcome back [TS]

00:01:22   dan I'm back it's so good to be back [TS]

00:01:25   yes I i mean i'm on a podcast with you [TS]

00:01:27   every week but not these turn on the [TS]

00:01:29   uncomfortable back here yes it's good to [TS]

00:01:30   have you back here back among friends [TS]

00:01:32   yes exactly not like wait a second [TS]

00:01:34   you're not like that other 1i I'm saying [TS]

00:01:37   that my podcast I constantly try to get [TS]

00:01:39   usurped alright fair enough [TS]

00:01:41   good point David lower as well hello [TS]

00:01:43   hello there and of course it would not [TS]

00:01:47   be a book club episode except for the [TS]

00:01:48   ones we do about Stephen King novels and [TS]

00:01:50   things without Scott multi hello or [TS]

00:01:53   harry potter or in the direction it [TS]

00:01:55   would not be perfect but i don't even [TS]

00:01:57   consider those real book club episodes [TS]

00:01:59   because they don't feature Scott McNulty [TS]

00:02:01   well that's what those are booked [TS]

00:02:02   episodes not really properly in the book [TS]

00:02:04   club do any episodes feature Scott [TS]

00:02:07   McNulty I don't think so [TS]

00:02:08   I know although they might listen to you [TS]

00:02:10   talk and talk and talk on your own [TS]

00:02:12   random track podcast and I think why [TS]

00:02:13   doesn't he speak on the incompetent [TS]

00:02:16   lemme answer is he feels no need it's [TS]

00:02:19   going fine I'll just sit here and enjoy [TS]

00:02:21   your listening to the podcast I have to [TS]

00:02:23   speak the only two people on that other [TS]

00:02:25   guests so if i don't see you and your [TS]

00:02:27   the whole of it that would be a great [TS]

00:02:28   podcast by the way if you just invited [TS]

00:02:30   somebody on and then didn't say ne [TS]

00:02:32   welcome to see the latest episode of [TS]

00:02:33   silence with Scott me tell me where we [TS]

00:02:36   sit quietly for 45 minutes and think [TS]

00:02:38   about what we've done be an easy edit [TS]

00:02:40   that would be good [TS]

00:02:44   so the experience I you know this is a [TS]

00:02:46   really interesting series in that it is [TS]

00:02:49   it has already been picked up as a [TS]

00:02:51   10-episode season on the SyFy channel so [TS]

00:02:56   this as the expanse not as Leviathan [TS]

00:03:00   wakes and we talked if that entitle [TS]

00:03:03   sounds familiar episode 96 of the [TS]

00:03:05   incomparable space fedora which was the [TS]

00:03:07   2012 Hugo or dominis included Leviathan [TS]

00:03:10   wakes which was nominated for the hugo [TS]

00:03:12   this is a this is a would-be faith fair [TS]

00:03:16   to call this a space opera kind of [TS]

00:03:18   series do you think i give it an excited [TS]

00:03:21   that you know I i was thinking about [TS]

00:03:25   this is I've been reading them because [TS]

00:03:27   generally when I think space opera I [TS]

00:03:31   think sweeping galactic adventures not [TS]

00:03:35   to spoil anything so I want any but the [TS]

00:03:37   the bulk of these happen within the [TS]

00:03:39   solar system [TS]

00:03:40   yeah but there's a lot of moving around [TS]

00:03:41   a lot of plants are involved so I was I [TS]

00:03:44   was trying to think of what it I mean [TS]

00:03:45   it's certainly space opera like solar [TS]

00:03:47   system holiday ask can we call the space [TS]

00:03:49   operetta I like it that sauce that's how [TS]

00:03:52   much for just the planet I space i think [TS]

00:03:55   i think solar system opera perhaps [TS]

00:03:58   because it is it the idea here is that [TS]

00:04:00   people are going you know between Mars [TS]

00:04:02   and Earth and the outer planets and and [TS]

00:04:04   moons of jupiter and saturn and the [TS]

00:04:05   asteroid belt and they've got different [TS]

00:04:07   spaceships and they're different [TS]

00:04:09   factions and and that's from the very [TS]

00:04:12   beginning [TS]

00:04:13   that's the setting of of these novels [TS]

00:04:15   and and so it's not quite super wide [TS]

00:04:18   screen of we walking but you know across [TS]

00:04:20   the entire galaxy but definitely it's [TS]

00:04:23   it's got the it's got that though if you [TS]

00:04:26   keep in mind that the name of the series [TS]

00:04:28   is [TS]

00:04:29   the expanse yeah it makes you wonder [TS]

00:04:31   night you might think that's going to [TS]

00:04:33   need that blends pulls back at some [TS]

00:04:35   point we'll we'll we'll get to that but [TS]

00:04:37   that's actually one of the interesting [TS]

00:04:38   things about the construction of the [TS]

00:04:40   series is a series so the story is Scott [TS]

00:04:43   my to dan did you read Leviathan wakes [TS]

00:04:45   for that part for that podcast i did not [TS]

00:04:47   i read it later on i read a month or two [TS]

00:04:50   ago so we read that for that episode [TS]

00:04:52   that because it was a hugo nominee and [TS]

00:04:54   it was good [TS]

00:04:55   it's a good book i didn't quite the [TS]

00:04:58   perspective i have on it now is very [TS]

00:05:00   different because now I think of it as [TS]

00:05:01   like the first season or whatever of [TS]

00:05:04   this you know that this book series [TS]

00:05:06   which is every June it seems these guys [TS]

00:05:09   put out a new book in this series and [TS]

00:05:11   they seem fairly maybe they're wrong [TS]

00:05:13   yeah well it takes two guys to write a [TS]

00:05:16   book this long at once a year but I like [TS]

00:05:19   that about it and it and now having read [TS]

00:05:22   three and a half of them it is it is a [TS]

00:05:25   series so you can jump in with Leviathan [TS]

00:05:27   wakes and I just my opinion of it has [TS]

00:05:29   changed now that I realized what I was [TS]

00:05:30   reading what sort of started this larger [TS]

00:05:32   epic instead of the sort of you know [TS]

00:05:36   science fiction novel that I thought it [TS]

00:05:38   was that was smaller [TS]

00:05:40   I'm not small scale but not quite the [TS]

00:05:42   same as being part of a giant series so [TS]

00:05:44   i guess i don't remember from that [TS]

00:05:46   episode and remember folks on that [TS]

00:05:48   episode what people thought of it was [TS]

00:05:50   there anything you say it was ok for you [TS]

00:05:52   you were not so that's good you look [TS]

00:05:55   like you don't remember I don't remember [TS]

00:05:56   any pockets on either so you're enough [TS]

00:05:59   so I mean did you said it was ok but you [TS]

00:06:02   didn't see i loved it i thought it was [TS]

00:06:04   the best book I've read in knots in fact [TS]

00:06:07   i will take an unpopular position right [TS]

00:06:09   now and say that I enjoyed it much more [TS]

00:06:11   than I enjoyed ancillary justice which I [TS]

00:06:13   know everybody all out [TS]

00:06:14   wow it was nice talking too much you [TS]

00:06:20   need to get out of the house more [TS]

00:06:21   Scott Scott is not wrong often but you [TS]

00:06:24   know it happens [TS]

00:06:25   no it no don't say that it doesn't ever [TS]

00:06:29   have that like I just I'm just enjoying [TS]

00:06:31   this too much I didn't even think ID [TS]

00:06:33   with the clients and wakes was the best [TS]

00:06:35   of the hugo nominated well well among [TS]

00:06:38   others was in that guy group and that [TS]

00:06:41   that was the best of [TS]

00:06:42   them but Leviathan wakes was good that I [TS]

00:06:46   i like that in fact I I think maybe I [TS]

00:06:48   voted like 2nd and 3rd but it is good [TS]

00:06:52   and no space for that the clever thing [TS]

00:06:54   about Leviathan wakes and actually damn [TS]

00:06:55   one of the reasons i bet you like it is [TS]

00:06:58   one of the characters one of the two [TS]

00:07:00   characters that is in Leviathan wakes is [TS]

00:07:02   this a detective with a hat space [TS]

00:07:06   detective with his baby dora does have a [TS]

00:07:09   hat and I know you like that kind of nor [TS]

00:07:11   detective things and this is like a [TS]

00:07:12   space noir detective story there's a [TS]

00:07:14   girl she's missing detective Miller [TS]

00:07:17   needs to find her [TS]

00:07:18   of course there in the outer planets but [TS]

00:07:20   uh but you've got that she's shooters [TS]

00:07:22   she's a rich girl but she's gone missing [TS]

00:07:24   and and they don't really know what's [TS]

00:07:25   going on there and then meanwhile [TS]

00:07:26   there's this uh this pilot who's who [TS]

00:07:29   whoo he and his crew have a different [TS]

00:07:31   set of adventures and they kind of go [TS]

00:07:32   back and forth and in your messages over [TS]

00:07:35   time the stories come to ya-ya the [TS]

00:07:37   politics of this of the setting and of [TS]

00:07:39   this book are fascinating to because [TS]

00:07:41   you've got these is a multipolar solar [TS]

00:07:43   system you've got Earth and Mars and the [TS]

00:07:45   outer planets who are trying to exert [TS]

00:07:47   themselves as independent as well and so [TS]

00:07:50   you've got that as the backdrop and then [TS]

00:07:53   you've got these individual people who [TS]

00:07:54   are just like trying to get get on and [TS]

00:07:56   do their jobs whether onna on a colony [TS]

00:07:59   or they're flying a ship and then of [TS]

00:08:01   course what happens in Leviathan wakes [TS]

00:08:03   is that something something crazy [TS]

00:08:05   happens that is you know is it is an [TS]

00:08:07   alien it's unknown there's kind of a you [TS]

00:08:11   know a discovery that's made about you [TS]

00:08:13   know without spoiling it too much [TS]

00:08:15   something you know state they discover [TS]

00:08:16   something crazy and that leads to a [TS]

00:08:18   whole bunch of other complications on [TS]

00:08:20   top of it it and in some ways to me [TS]

00:08:22   anyways that too is like the least [TS]

00:08:24   compelling part of the story like it [TS]

00:08:26   gets interesting and it is a catalyst [TS]

00:08:28   but i think the things that i really [TS]

00:08:30   enjoyed about this the first book and [TS]

00:08:32   about the series in general are the [TS]

00:08:34   depictions of the politics like they do [TS]

00:08:37   a very very good job of spelling out why [TS]

00:08:39   all these different factions believe the [TS]

00:08:41   things they do and how they come into [TS]

00:08:43   conflict and what happens when they [TS]

00:08:45   bounce off each other and most [TS]

00:08:47   importantly of all the characters which [TS]

00:08:49   to me felt like people rather than so [TS]

00:08:53   many science fiction books I [TS]

00:08:55   read where the characters especially [TS]

00:08:57   with this current fascination of science [TS]

00:08:59   fiction books that takes place so far in [TS]

00:09:00   the future that people are basically [TS]

00:09:01   unrecognizable as people and i find that [TS]

00:09:04   out for have a hard time relating to [TS]

00:09:05   those whereas these get they talk like [TS]

00:09:07   people they talk like you know ordinary [TS]

00:09:09   folks they have motivations that are [TS]

00:09:11   recognizable it's not all just you know [TS]

00:09:14   talking about the unity of getting [TS]

00:09:17   fascinating bogged down in the science [TS]

00:09:19   fictiony details of it all [TS]

00:09:21   so i found that to be a really enjoyable [TS]

00:09:24   experience but Miller is nor I mean he [TS]

00:09:26   isn't nor detective he just got just [TS]

00:09:28   with a girl it is he's a recognizable [TS]

00:09:30   character not only as a as a [TS]

00:09:32   twentieth-century in fact character [TS]

00:09:34   trope but also as a character with [TS]

00:09:36   motivations of his own [TS]

00:09:37   well I'm Jim Holden is a paladin if you [TS]

00:09:39   wanted not here's a do-gooder he is I [TS]

00:09:43   kind of thought of him as like a James [TS]

00:09:45   Kirk yeah yeah it'll be even more he's [TS]

00:09:50   even more moral in some ways than Kirk [TS]

00:09:52   right like he has it really is the key [TS]

00:09:54   is lawful good you know he's got that [TS]

00:09:55   whole thing was like I'm just gonna tell [TS]

00:09:57   everybody everything and i'm going to be [TS]

00:10:00   like totally painfully good about some [TS]

00:10:02   things and it does make him a rather [TS]

00:10:03   simplistic character times but they [TS]

00:10:05   really dive into that subsequently in [TS]

00:10:07   terms of how he acts which i find [TS]

00:10:09   fascinating [TS]

00:10:10   yeah I was gonna say i really like that [TS]

00:10:12   it that it is that sort of blend of [TS]

00:10:15   these very familiar kind of things like [TS]

00:10:18   Star Trek and war and and or even like [TS]

00:10:21   James Kirk as if he were in firefly [TS]

00:10:24   almost writes a little more beaten up [TS]

00:10:27   right but i like that it that it sort of [TS]

00:10:31   spun off from there and became its own [TS]

00:10:33   thing and you know when when space [TS]

00:10:38   fedora you know I listen to that and you [TS]

00:10:41   know and at that point I was still [TS]

00:10:42   burned down on syfy because there's [TS]

00:10:45   there's a long stretch where I just read [TS]

00:10:47   so much and I was just tired of it no [TS]

00:10:49   more sci-fi and so I didn't you know I [TS]

00:10:52   listen to it to all the podcast and [TS]

00:10:54   didn't pick up any the box Mikey so when [TS]

00:10:57   I picked this up i really liked the [TS]

00:11:01   world-building of it too is it was just [TS]

00:11:05   fascinating and and it feels lived-in [TS]

00:11:08   the way a lot of sci-fi doesn't these [TS]

00:11:13   days you know they've clearly put a lot [TS]

00:11:16   of thought into what it would be like in [TS]

00:11:19   this place in this place in this place [TS]

00:11:20   in this place and how the people are [TS]

00:11:22   reacting and how they've changed by [TS]

00:11:24   being so far apart i really enjoy that [TS]

00:11:28   so you know yes I've read the first one [TS]

00:11:31   I'm going to keep reading them all right [TS]

00:11:32   away it its it's funny i read the first [TS]

00:11:35   one liked it and knew that they were [TS]

00:11:37   discovered that it was a series and I [TS]

00:11:39   thought well I'll get back to that and [TS]

00:11:40   then like this last I don't know three [TS]

00:11:43   months ago or something I thought oh [TS]

00:11:44   that this thing got picked up as a [TS]

00:11:46   series i like that book let's let's uh [TS]

00:11:49   let's read on [TS]

00:11:50   well but but if at the time you only had [TS]

00:11:53   the one book to go on that makes sense [TS]

00:11:55   whereas i'm coming to it with ya there [TS]

00:11:57   three more books there's two developers [TS]

00:11:59   and there's a series i think there was a [TS]

00:12:00   second book just out when we recorded [TS]

00:12:02   that episode and ok you know and I [TS]

00:12:04   actually get one of the perils of being [TS]

00:12:06   a Huguenot nominee reader is that if [TS]

00:12:09   booked one of a series gets nominated [TS]

00:12:11   you wait for the next year's nominees [TS]

00:12:13   assuming that you'll read it then and I [TS]

00:12:15   didn't get nominated [TS]

00:12:16   so I I sort of lost track of it and that [TS]

00:12:18   little while that's like secrets of the [TS]

00:12:20   people who who follow these nominees [TS]

00:12:22   list surround is sometimes you're like [TS]

00:12:24   yeah it'll get nominated next year [TS]

00:12:26   like I'm not going to rush out and buy [TS]

00:12:27   the next mirror grant book because it's [TS]

00:12:29   just gonna get nominated next year and I [TS]

00:12:31   can't really decide if the only reason [TS]

00:12:33   that I'm not buying the experience yeah [TS]

00:12:35   that's it that's the only race right [TS]

00:12:37   I you know maybe Erika can give us a [TS]

00:12:38   letter us her copy i did buy a copy of [TS]

00:12:45   the second book caliban's war is at the [TS]

00:12:46   second yeah [TS]

00:12:47   yes uh but i just sent myself because I [TS]

00:12:51   mean I like the first book don't get me [TS]

00:12:52   wrong i think it's it was a lot of fun [TS]

00:12:54   and I enjoyed it and I certainly would [TS]

00:12:56   read more but I have a lot of other [TS]

00:12:58   stuff that ring so it just wasn't on the [TS]

00:13:00   list and then jason said hey let's do a [TS]

00:13:02   pocket about it so I took it down and [TS]

00:13:04   read it and then I immediately read the [TS]

00:13:06   first one and then everything you read [TS]

00:13:08   the fourth one and then I was like other [TS]

00:13:10   sometimes Novelis I read all of them [TS]

00:13:11   right [TS]

00:13:12   neuro so this is a this is a big it's a [TS]

00:13:14   compelling narrative right leg and that [TS]

00:13:17   is a thing but like I read the second [TS]

00:13:18   book was on vacation and I you know [TS]

00:13:21   another thing that this that this series [TS]

00:13:23   has going for it that I don't get five [TS]

00:13:25   feel like the last science fiction these [TS]

00:13:27   days is it's funny I was sitting on a [TS]

00:13:31   dock reading it and laughing out loud [TS]

00:13:32   yeah just pretty rare for uh for a book [TS]

00:13:35   to get me this especially one that is [TS]

00:13:37   not like a you know humor book like a [TS]

00:13:39   terry pratchett or something but the [TS]

00:13:41   dialogue is sharp and very very funny [TS]

00:13:44   and the characters are drawn in such a [TS]

00:13:46   way that you find a kind of delightful [TS]

00:13:49   when they act exactly the way that you [TS]

00:13:51   expect them to do because that's what [TS]

00:13:53   you've been you know taught to believe [TS]

00:13:54   with these characters so I it's it's [TS]

00:13:57   clever and well done the construction of [TS]

00:13:59   this knowing that it's a series now I [TS]

00:14:01   think about this a little bit more than [TS]

00:14:02   and these guys I mean one of these guys [TS]

00:14:04   is is George RR Martin's like assistant [TS]

00:14:07   or something and actually that's funny [TS]

00:14:09   because I learned something about the [TS]

00:14:11   about the business I think has some [TS]

00:14:13   connections and then they did they sell [TS]

00:14:15   this this TV series III thought to [TS]

00:14:17   myself while reading the next two books [TS]

00:14:20   that's really smart this is the way you [TS]

00:14:22   do a TV series is you have this you have [TS]

00:14:25   this lived in world you've got these [TS]

00:14:27   stories that are coming at a at a one [TS]

00:14:30   book a year pace which is actually [TS]

00:14:31   perfect and as I read the other books i [TS]

00:14:34   kept thinking yes this makes sense this [TS]

00:14:35   could be season to this could be season [TS]

00:14:37   3 you've got continuing characters [TS]

00:14:39   you've got new storylines but also [TS]

00:14:41   continuing character set in the same [TS]

00:14:42   universe and I you know so i was [TS]

00:14:45   thinking about that related to Game of [TS]

00:14:46   Thrones and ended it fits now how much [TS]

00:14:49   of this is hey was a clever calculation [TS]

00:14:51   by these guys we will create a [TS]

00:14:52   science-fiction property that will [TS]

00:14:54   become a television series and if this [TS]

00:14:56   that was calculated good job guys [TS]

00:14:58   because yet you nailed it but it is so I [TS]

00:15:00   mean it's episodic in a way it is I like [TS]

00:15:04   that I like that I like that book won [TS]

00:15:05   all these books are different they have [TS]

00:15:08   some characters in common they have they [TS]

00:15:10   have a through line of character you can [TS]

00:15:11   notice it was a tree lighting plot to [TS]

00:15:13   rights not direct exactly exactly [TS]

00:15:17   we'll talk more about this after we blow [TS]

00:15:18   the spoiler horn but but I like that [TS]

00:15:20   about it that it's structured in a way [TS]

00:15:21   where you know book one doesn't end and [TS]

00:15:23   you're like oh boy I gotta [TS]

00:15:25   a book too because this is a ripoff [TS]

00:15:27   notebook each book is a book it tells a [TS]

00:15:29   story but the characters some of the [TS]

00:15:31   characters continue this the overall [TS]

00:15:34   story arc that you start to see in book [TS]

00:15:36   2 continues and I like that it's a good [TS]

00:15:40   that's a nice plus they release a book [TS]

00:15:42   every year instead of like will win the [TS]

00:15:44   next book 105 years seven years who [TS]

00:15:46   knows that all like that's it this is [TS]

00:15:49   like totally how sci-fi novel series [TS]

00:15:51   should work i think exactly like it is [TS]

00:15:53   taking notes thanks clearly has a lot of [TS]

00:15:55   time while George is writing so uh huh [TS]

00:15:58   that's right ok we're going to fire off [TS]

00:16:01   the spoiler horn in just a minute but [TS]

00:16:03   before I do that I want to tell you [TS]

00:16:04   about our sponsor it is [TS]

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00:16:38   training often that stuff comes out the [TS]

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00:16:43   so if you've got a new piece of software [TS]

00:16:44   and you're like how do i use this it's [TS]

00:16:46   different what's new [TS]

00:16:47   lynda.com will often have that stuff [TS]

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00:16:53   training they have these gorgeous [TS]

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00:16:57   isn't somebody down in their basement on [TS]

00:16:58   youtube showing you how to do something [TS]

00:17:00   these are experts in a high quality [TS]

00:17:02   setting they break the courses down into [TS]

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00:17:14   course it's up to you [TS]

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00:17:19   completion [TS]

00:17:20   it's got levels there are beginner [TS]

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00:17:24   you're an expert who wants to fine-tune [TS]

00:17:26   your skills their courses for you on [TS]

00:17:28   lynda.com and if you have no idea and [TS]

00:17:30   you just need to get started with [TS]

00:17:31   something they've got courses for that [TS]

00:17:33   too I've definitely taken stuff at the [TS]

00:17:35   beginner level lynda.com and gotten into [TS]

00:17:38   different topics [TS]

00:17:39   different pieces of software and I've [TS]

00:17:40   also done some advanced stuff when I [TS]

00:17:42   really need to know how do you do this [TS]

00:17:43   one thing I'm not quite sure I'm doing [TS]

00:17:46   it right [TS]

00:17:47   lynda.com to carry me there one low [TS]

00:17:50   monthly price for access to the entire [TS]

00:17:51   library of lynda.com $25 gives you [TS]

00:17:55   unlimited access to more than a hundred [TS]

00:17:57   thousand video tutorials and you can do [TS]

00:17:59   that on your computer on your iPhone on [TS]

00:18:01   your iPad on your android device it's [TS]

00:18:04   all available for you and wherever you [TS]

00:18:07   are [TS]

00:18:08   now here's the deal I've worked out a [TS]

00:18:10   deal with linda.com to give you access [TS]

00:18:12   to that entire library absolutely free [TS]

00:18:15   for seven days [TS]

00:18:17   what you need to do is go to linda.com [TS]

00:18:20   ly nba.com slash incomparable that's [TS]

00:18:25   lynda.com / incomparable and you can try [TS]

00:18:28   lynda.com free for seven days so thank [TS]

00:18:31   you very much to linda.com for teaching [TS]

00:18:33   me things and for sponsoring me [TS]

00:18:36   uncomfortable [TS]

00:18:37   ok time to far-off the spoiler horn if [TS]

00:18:39   you haven't read these books and you [TS]

00:18:41   don't want to listen on jump ahead to [TS]

00:18:43   minute 54 where we will talk about what [TS]

00:18:45   we're reading and go read these books [TS]

00:18:46   they're really good [TS]

00:18:52   I i did the characters so my favorite [TS]

00:18:55   character in the entire series so far is [TS]

00:18:58   a narrator from book to who is I'm gonna [TS]

00:19:02   mispronounce your name but about sir [TS]

00:19:03   alistair alia yeah I love her [TS]

00:19:06   alright her she is my favorite character [TS]

00:19:08   in the entire series she's basically in [TS]

00:19:10   charge of security for earth although [TS]

00:19:12   she's got a title as a sub whatever of [TS]

00:19:14   the United Nations on what under [TS]

00:19:16   assistant to the Undersecretary of you [TS]

00:19:19   and she has a foul mouth grandmother a [TS]

00:19:22   diminutive Indian grandmother who eats [TS]

00:19:24   what pistachios Haverford out of her [TS]

00:19:26   mercy [TS]

00:19:28   so where's will actively working to [TS]

00:19:31   create character yep and I i think that [TS]

00:19:34   to me was the moment that i really got [TS]

00:19:36   sold on this because it took me at you [TS]

00:19:37   know you come in any book that switches [TS]

00:19:39   narrators and you know Game of Thrones [TS]

00:19:40   which we talked about a little bit has [TS]

00:19:43   the same issue with like okay there's [TS]

00:19:44   this new person i'm going to be in their [TS]

00:19:46   head and it might be a little tricky to [TS]

00:19:48   adjust to it and then you know how you [TS]

00:19:50   know a few chapters in you find yourself [TS]

00:19:53   really just enjoying being in these [TS]

00:19:55   peoples heads I I mean it was definitely [TS]

00:19:57   departure coming from the first book [TS]

00:19:59   because you got very used to this [TS]

00:20:00   flipping back and forth between holding [TS]

00:20:02   the miller and like all right I've got [TS]

00:20:04   these two threads and then you need [TS]

00:20:05   subsequent book I think they get I don't [TS]

00:20:07   they go like scale necessarily more [TS]

00:20:08   complicated but like it definitely gets [TS]

00:20:10   more complicated and more narrators as [TS]

00:20:14   they go along and it's always a little [TS]

00:20:16   bit of an adjustment period trying to [TS]

00:20:18   deal with the new narrators but i often [TS]

00:20:21   you-know-who part of the way through the [TS]

00:20:23   book you know you feel like I'm yeah I'm [TS]

00:20:25   i like these people i'm home i also [TS]

00:20:27   wonder if one of the reasons i like the [TS]

00:20:29   second one the first is that the first [TS]

00:20:33   book so that the first books that the [TS]

00:20:34   vomit zombies this this this alien [TS]

00:20:36   whatever-it-is protomolecule weapon they [TS]

00:20:39   don't know what it is is going out of [TS]

00:20:41   control and it's rewriting people and [TS]

00:20:43   turning them into vomit zombies and it's [TS]

00:20:46   bad and everybody dies and is very bad [TS]

00:20:48   and I thought well you know are you [TS]

00:20:50   throwing in here I I didn't love that [TS]

00:20:52   aspect of it because it felt like it's [TS]

00:20:54   the least introduce on business in some [TS]

00:20:56   ways yes a sci-fi novel with zombies he [TS]

00:20:59   yeh but in the second book it becomes [TS]

00:21:05   clear that [TS]

00:21:05   they're really trying to do is sort of [TS]

00:21:07   have the results of the alien technology [TS]

00:21:10   be like feel like really different and [TS]

00:21:12   so you get the aftermath of that attack [TS]

00:21:15   where our friend the Martian marine is [TS]

00:21:17   the only survivor and it's this [TS]

00:21:20   monstrous you know creature that is [TS]

00:21:23   spawned by the the protomolecule and and [TS]

00:21:25   you realize that ok they're not really [TS]

00:21:26   trying to inject a horror element [TS]

00:21:29   everywhere like they you know they [TS]

00:21:31   they're very specifically trying to just [TS]

00:21:34   create a sort of alien scary feel from [TS]

00:21:36   this stuff but I'll that turned me [TS]

00:21:38   around a little bit when I went because [TS]

00:21:40   the first books the use of zombies I'm [TS]

00:21:42   like yeah okay and it's all about how in [TS]

00:21:44   book two [TS]

00:21:45   it's all about how people are turning [TS]

00:21:47   that to certain ends right into it's [TS]

00:21:50   less about what the alien protomolecule [TS]

00:21:53   is doing then how all these different [TS]

00:21:55   power bases are are trying to react to [TS]

00:21:59   the fact that this thing exists it turns [TS]

00:22:01   out book 2 and at the very end of book [TS]

00:22:02   one that a lot of the badness that's [TS]

00:22:05   happened is because people have screwed [TS]

00:22:07   things up and not because there's an [TS]

00:22:09   alien protomolecule that's doing weird [TS]

00:22:11   things it is doing weird things but the [TS]

00:22:14   people are the ones committing crimes [TS]

00:22:16   are rounded right which I i really liked [TS]

00:22:19   that too and and I like to pull the [TS]

00:22:21   politics and book to looking at us are [TS]

00:22:24   all is a balance of power you know even [TS]

00:22:26   not just between Earth and Mars and the [TS]

00:22:28   outer belt but inside earth politics [TS]

00:22:32   where she's sort of like put in jeopardy [TS]

00:22:34   at several points by aspects who want [TS]

00:22:37   who want to blow things up instead of [TS]

00:22:40   instead of kind of taking care of [TS]

00:22:43   humanity [TS]

00:22:44   yeah it's a very recognizable sort of [TS]

00:22:45   power corrupts you know high-level [TS]

00:22:48   political machinations you know it's I [TS]

00:22:51   think again the thing that the resonates [TS]

00:22:52   for me is you know a lot of these a lot [TS]

00:22:55   of science fiction books right now are [TS]

00:22:56   dealing with this question of like well [TS]

00:22:58   what does it mean to be human like [TS]

00:23:00   especially in you know as technology [TS]

00:23:02   progresses you know people focused on [TS]

00:23:04   this whole idea of the singularity and [TS]

00:23:06   stuff like that and I think what I [TS]

00:23:07   really love about these books is that [TS]

00:23:09   they sort of conform to my belief which [TS]

00:23:11   is like people are always going to be [TS]

00:23:13   kind of inescapably people and in all [TS]

00:23:16   the good and bad that that [TS]

00:23:18   means you know there they don't change [TS]

00:23:20   that much we're not that different than [TS]

00:23:22   we you know then we've been for the last [TS]

00:23:24   several millennia and I think to me [TS]

00:23:26   that's what's really interesting about [TS]

00:23:28   these books is all of these things are [TS]

00:23:30   recognizable because even if we've you [TS]

00:23:33   know gotten to other planets and [TS]

00:23:34   colonize asteroid belts and stuff like [TS]

00:23:36   that people are still gonna have the [TS]

00:23:38   same petty power squabble that they've [TS]

00:23:39   always had and they're going to act and [TS]

00:23:41   recognizably human ways right right I [TS]

00:23:44   agree one of the shocking things that [TS]

00:23:47   happens in book one is that one of our [TS]

00:23:50   two protagonists does get killed Miller [TS]

00:23:54   doesn't make it [TS]

00:23:56   holden holden survives the the [TS]

00:23:59   idealistic annoying kind of ruins [TS]

00:24:02   everything by being so honest kind of [TS]

00:24:04   guy which is which is delightful and [TS]

00:24:06   they get their spaceship and he's got [TS]

00:24:08   his girlfriend who's been his first [TS]

00:24:10   officer all along and that that's really [TS]

00:24:12   that's a nice thing but i always look [TS]

00:24:14   preferred Miller to holden and the irony [TS]

00:24:16   is that holding his and his crew are the [TS]

00:24:18   ones we follow and Miller Miller guys in [TS]

00:24:21   the first book but I you know but i [TS]

00:24:24   still i like i like having that the the [TS]

00:24:27   guts to say I'm gonna kill off one of my [TS]

00:24:30   main characters in this book especially [TS]

00:24:31   since it's a series as it turns out what [TS]

00:24:33   I just like George erm yeah look at that [TS]

00:24:36   they learned so many lessons you say i [TS]

00:24:39   really i really enjoy a lot of the [TS]

00:24:41   secondary characters and some of them [TS]

00:24:42   you get very attached to my you know I [TS]

00:24:44   really my other favorite favorite [TS]

00:24:46   character is a messy Asher course course [TS]

00:24:49   and he's just he's just yeah another [TS]

00:24:51   another great drawn character who could [TS]

00:24:53   have been very clich├ęd and [TS]

00:24:55   stereotypical but they sort of embraces [TS]

00:24:58   it in a way that makes it work you know [TS]

00:25:01   he starts officer this big block [TS]

00:25:03   mechanic guy and as the as the series [TS]

00:25:05   develops you realize well he's also just [TS]

00:25:08   like a really really exceptionally [TS]

00:25:10   brutal thong but a lovable one of the [TS]

00:25:13   heart of gold [TS]

00:25:14   he's a level sociopath yeah and but one [TS]

00:25:16   of the one of the novellas is called the [TS]

00:25:18   turn and it tells his story first to how [TS]

00:25:22   he goes out into space so sorry I kind [TS]

00:25:24   of like that i didn't know his story [TS]

00:25:27   because it made him kind of mysterious [TS]

00:25:29   because they kind of there are lots of [TS]

00:25:30   kind of [TS]

00:25:31   allegiance and remarks throughout the [TS]

00:25:33   the series but the story later that for [TS]

00:25:36   you so if you want to know there's a [TS]

00:25:38   really nice turn seen in the third book [TS]

00:25:40   where they he's protecting another [TS]

00:25:45   character and she's you know that [TS]

00:25:47   they're all in trouble and they're going [TS]

00:25:49   to be attacked by other people who are [TS]

00:25:51   coming for them with weapons and it's a [TS]

00:25:53   serious tense standoff and he she did [TS]

00:25:58   and she's a minister right and he he he [TS]

00:26:01   doesn't she doesn't know what to think [TS]

00:26:02   of him because he is this big kind of [TS]

00:26:05   brutal guy and they end up actually [TS]

00:26:07   having some kind of really nice [TS]

00:26:09   conversation really nice relationship [TS]

00:26:10   where you know he he basically says i [TS]

00:26:14   will i will make sure that they don't [TS]

00:26:15   hurt you and something might happen to [TS]

00:26:17   me I don't know but I'm going to make [TS]

00:26:19   sure that your you are safe and [TS]

00:26:22   protected and that is that is that [TS]

00:26:24   character in a nutshell right which is [TS]

00:26:26   he is brutal and violent but you know I [TS]

00:26:29   don't want to say like with a heart of [TS]

00:26:31   gold but that's essentially yet he's [TS]

00:26:32   like he's a good he's he's a brutal [TS]

00:26:34   violent guy but he's our brutal violent [TS]

00:26:37   guy he's one of the good guys [TS]

00:26:39   he has a loyalty he has yeah right you [TS]

00:26:42   know i see thats man silent mode and [TS]

00:26:44   Madagascar dexter and and there i mean [TS]

00:26:48   there are scenes that you know again we [TS]

00:26:50   find out the spoiler home but there's an [TS]

00:26:51   i think it's in book two [TS]

00:26:52   there's a scene where he gets shot like [TS]

00:26:55   in the head that's a brief sort of scene [TS]

00:26:58   where I remember reading The Rock like [TS]

00:27:00   your involuntary gasp be like no don't [TS]

00:27:02   kill Amos he's great and then of course [TS]

00:27:04   it turns out like you know he's wearing [TS]

00:27:06   a helmet you know we got smart because [TS]

00:27:08   he's smart he's that but like this [TS]

00:27:09   holster that he's got a whole sort of [TS]

00:27:11   indestructible or around you're making [TS]

00:27:13   some ways but not these like you know it [TS]

00:27:16   doesn't get that crap kicked out of him [TS]

00:27:18   walked so David how do you want to like [TS]

00:27:21   pump stick your fingers in your ears and [TS]

00:27:23   home for a while [TS]

00:27:25   no I'm i have i've read up on the shape [TS]

00:27:28   of the Lord so I'm don't know okay so [TS]

00:27:31   Miller similar dies and and one of the [TS]

00:27:32   things I really like in book two and i [TS]

00:27:34   told i told my wife this was about [TS]

00:27:35   70-percent through I said you know you [TS]

00:27:37   really series and they move on and even [TS]

00:27:40   if there's some new characters in common [TS]

00:27:42   they don't like talk about they don't [TS]

00:27:44   spend time going [TS]

00:27:44   like a yeah I remember him while he's [TS]

00:27:46   dead that's too bad they invited like [TS]

00:27:48   just move on and you very rarely have [TS]

00:27:50   people like even and even in Game of [TS]

00:27:51   Thrones they don't do this they don't do [TS]

00:27:53   like let's sit and remember how great a [TS]

00:27:55   guy Ned Stark was right no he's dead [TS]

00:27:58   we've moved on spoiling for Game of [TS]

00:27:59   Thrones by the way what are you doing [TS]

00:28:01   pay attention am I and uh I so i said i [TS]

00:28:06   said to her i said to Lauren I really [TS]

00:28:08   like that they keep managing on Miller [TS]

00:28:10   that bastard you know he did this and I [TS]

00:28:12   wish Miller we're here to ask in this [TS]

00:28:13   thing and the whole time I'm thinking [TS]

00:28:15   that's actually kind of cool i haven't [TS]

00:28:18   seen a book do that because he's dead [TS]

00:28:19   and then the very last seen on the very [TS]

00:28:22   last page of that book Miller appears [TS]

00:28:24   and and says to hold in ya back [TS]

00:28:29   fuck what yeah that is well that's yeah [TS]

00:28:34   that is a great woman moment and I [TS]

00:28:37   definitely laughed and thomas jane is [TS]

00:28:39   playing Miller in the series and I keep [TS]

00:28:41   thinking are they debated the cast him [TS]

00:28:43   and take a look [TS]

00:28:44   you're gonna be in season one we're [TS]

00:28:45   gonna kill you you're going to not be in [TS]

00:28:47   most of season two but then you're going [TS]

00:28:48   to be back for the rest here although [TS]

00:28:50   it's just metres you [TS]

00:28:51   he seems way too young and way too [TS]

00:28:53   handsome to play Miller based on like my [TS]

00:28:55   way out here but it's TV [TS]

00:28:57   well put a hand on him quite quite [TS]

00:28:58   honestly and he said he's a he's a [TS]

00:29:00   belter so he's supposedly got like a big [TS]

00:29:02   head and all that which you know for TV [TS]

00:29:03   that's just going to be regular people [TS]

00:29:04   idea i don't know about you I just cast [TS]

00:29:06   are our former colleague Dan Miller is [TS]

00:29:08   Miller honest haha older ladies are like [TS]

00:29:13   he's gonna have he's gonna get heard [TS]

00:29:15   I don't see you he's I'd watch that show [TS]

00:29:17   at the end Miller is his Miller [TS]

00:29:20   detective Dan Miller so I that nobody [TS]

00:29:22   who nobody knows Dan except for us but [TS]

00:29:24   yeah I I cast him i just decided he was [TS]

00:29:26   gonna pick some cherries were detected [TS]

00:29:28   business but but he's weak comes back in [TS]

00:29:30   and that that blew me away and and in [TS]

00:29:32   the second book we realize that the the [TS]

00:29:34   protomolecule is doing something [TS]

00:29:35   interesting on Venus and it you know it [TS]

00:29:39   becomes clear by the end of that book [TS]

00:29:41   that we've sort of just gotten in the [TS]

00:29:43   way of machine a molecular machine that [TS]

00:29:46   is doing something an alien machine is [TS]

00:29:48   doing something that we just don't even [TS]

00:29:49   know what it is and people are officer [TS]

00:29:52   all again great character the whole book [TS]

00:29:55   she's basically thinking okay there's [TS]

00:29:57   two things going on here [TS]

00:29:58   that I have to balance one is we have [TS]

00:30:00   lots of politics that could be very [TS]

00:30:01   important and two is theirs in giant [TS]

00:30:04   alien machine down under the clouds and [TS]

00:30:06   Venus that could be building something [TS]

00:30:07   that will kill us all and I i got think [TS]

00:30:09   about that a little bit or try not to [TS]

00:30:11   think about it and i really liked that [TS]

00:30:13   too that there's that like the stuff we [TS]

00:30:14   can control as humans and and also the [TS]

00:30:17   feeling that we may be in deep trouble [TS]

00:30:20   very much like Game of Thrones actually [TS]

00:30:21   with the others [TS]

00:30:22   it's a are the White Walkers if you want [TS]

00:30:25   you to do me a looming it's like there's [TS]

00:30:27   a looming threat to all humanity and [TS]

00:30:29   your humanity still squabbling with [TS]

00:30:30   within itself [TS]

00:30:32   yeah like yeah thanks what else at any [TS]

00:30:37   other any of things about the second [TS]

00:30:38   book of us are Allah is such a great [TS]

00:30:40   character that and the enemy and the [TS]

00:30:42   marine who's my name Bobby paper Bobby [TS]

00:30:45   those are my two favorite characters so [TS]

00:30:47   great are also really good yeah I like [TS]

00:30:48   her too and I was said that they were in [TS]

00:30:51   the next book that is my second I mean [TS]

00:30:53   that the second book is my favorite of [TS]

00:30:54   the series I just I really like I agree [TS]

00:30:57   with that I i like the other 2i like the [TS]

00:30:58   rest of them too but i think the second [TS]

00:31:00   book doesn't particularly stand out to [TS]

00:31:01   me because I mean it tells the most into [TS]

00:31:03   the politics aspect and I think that's [TS]

00:31:05   where this series is at its strongest is [TS]

00:31:09   what it's doing sort of the political [TS]

00:31:10   intrigue thing [TS]

00:31:11   yeah I'll ok so the third book is [TS]

00:31:16   Abaddon is gate which I which are also i [TS]

00:31:19   mean i like all these books this one's [TS]

00:31:21   got a different feeling because this is [TS]

00:31:23   Jim Holden is now being like haunted by [TS]

00:31:26   by Miller and what we realize is that [TS]

00:31:30   that this what is it like blue firefly [TS]

00:31:34   glow which is like the hint of the [TS]

00:31:37   protomolecule that that whatever the [TS]

00:31:39   alien creature is or alien machine that [TS]

00:31:44   is that it has has gone down to Venus [TS]

00:31:48   and built this ring and set it outside [TS]

00:31:50   of Neptune's orbit or Uranus or but I [TS]

00:31:54   guess is a trying to communicate with [TS]

00:31:58   him for some reason except through [TS]

00:32:00   Miller and and you don't really know [TS]

00:32:03   whether Holden is just totally crazy I [TS]

00:32:04   mean you get the sense that he come on [TS]

00:32:06   he's not really crazy the blue glow [TS]

00:32:07   means something there's aliens at work [TS]

00:32:09   here but it holds on enough [TS]

00:32:11   just to make you wonder if maybe he's [TS]

00:32:13   just actually crazy [TS]

00:32:14   I it is a complicated situation and this [TS]

00:32:19   is it gets interesting because you know [TS]

00:32:21   as you see the development of this piece [TS]

00:32:23   of alien machinery and it becomes clear [TS]

00:32:25   that the the whole this is the whole [TS]

00:32:28   purpose is like the endgame in some ways [TS]

00:32:30   now at the end I middle game of the [TS]

00:32:32   protomolecule is is building something [TS]

00:32:34   which turns out to be getting as the [TS]

00:32:37   book's title might suggest yeah it turns [TS]

00:32:40   out to be this this ring that goes into [TS]

00:32:43   somewhere else and it's like a Stargate [TS]

00:32:45   basically and where it goes is to like [TS]

00:32:48   the lobby of the galaxy which is a whole [TS]

00:32:53   bunch of rings all of them off [TS]

00:32:56   strangely and a space station which will [TS]

00:33:00   end and that's so so much of this book [TS]

00:33:02   is surprisingly we talk about books in [TS]

00:33:04   the same series with the same characters [TS]

00:33:05   feeling totally different [TS]

00:33:07   Abaddon's gate it is small in the way [TS]

00:33:10   that uh that the previous book caliban's [TS]

00:33:14   war is big cabins words about ships [TS]

00:33:15   going into and out of the inner and [TS]

00:33:17   outer solar system and transferring [TS]

00:33:19   people from here there and like big like [TS]

00:33:21   chess moves on a solar system scale [TS]

00:33:23   heaven's gate is about people in close [TS]

00:33:25   quarters because in the gate lobby area [TS]

00:33:28   there's a speed limit you can't go very [TS]

00:33:30   fast [TS]

00:33:31   everybody is sort of like limited with [TS]

00:33:34   what they can do a lot of it takes place [TS]

00:33:35   on one giant but one spaceship and it's [TS]

00:33:38   about people in corridors fighting room [TS]

00:33:41   to room and then Jim Holden separately [TS]

00:33:44   goes to the space station and has like [TS]

00:33:46   his own personal end of 2001 moment for [TS]

00:33:51   an extended period of time where he's [TS]

00:33:53   trying to communicate with the alien [TS]

00:33:55   whatever it is and yet this is the book [TS]

00:33:58   that I thought it is kind of it is a [TS]

00:33:59   smaller story but it is the book that [TS]

00:34:01   transforms into a space opera because [TS]

00:34:03   now they have giant alien artifact ya [TS]

00:34:06   doing who-knows-what and there you know [TS]

00:34:08   trying to figure out this plus dealing [TS]

00:34:10   with all the squabbling because they [TS]

00:34:11   still don't stop squabbling even though [TS]

00:34:13   they you know they go through this don't [TS]

00:34:15   know where they are they go through this [TS]

00:34:16   ring everybody they don't want to go [TS]

00:34:19   through the ring but the beginning you [TS]

00:34:20   a little kid stupidly did ruin video and [TS]

00:34:23   ruins it creates his own spaceship but [TS]

00:34:26   slingshots himself through and then [TS]

00:34:27   everybody all hell breaks loose [TS]

00:34:30   yeah i thought was fascinating how it [TS]

00:34:31   kind of turned the tone is the same but [TS]

00:34:34   the the setting and kind of it just [TS]

00:34:36   expands the setting and this this is the [TS]

00:34:38   book where you're like oh IC turns out [TS]

00:34:41   now that we're in book 3 what we've [TS]

00:34:44   actually been looking at is the setup [TS]

00:34:47   for Humanity being able to have access [TS]

00:34:50   to this wider wider universe but wider [TS]

00:34:54   set of galaxies and Eric hour or more [TS]

00:34:57   solar systems within our galaxy because [TS]

00:34:59   you know obviously they're going to be [TS]

00:35:01   able to turn on these rings and there's [TS]

00:35:03   a new moment where we're holding kind of [TS]

00:35:06   communes with the intelligence that runs [TS]

00:35:08   which is it is never said to be an alien [TS]

00:35:11   it's like a machine intelligence that [TS]

00:35:12   that has been the caretaker of the space [TS]

00:35:15   station and this this transfer point [TS]

00:35:17   this this Lobby and it's basically ATM [TS]

00:35:21   in the galaxies lobby and you playback [TS]

00:35:25   what's happened and that's that [TS]

00:35:28   I mean talk about space off right that's [TS]

00:35:29   the moment of grand galaxy-spanning [TS]

00:35:31   civilization built this entire thing and [TS]

00:35:34   then there's a mysterious other force [TS]

00:35:36   that attacks it and it you know that [TS]

00:35:40   civilization falls and they close off [TS]

00:35:42   all the gates and that's just sort of [TS]

00:35:45   that tidbit they're like wow what [TS]

00:35:47   happened we're late to the party here [TS]

00:35:48   that the z3 there's any even more [TS]

00:35:51   ominous threat that killed off the [TS]

00:35:53   ominous threat yes desolation which is a [TS]

00:35:56   nice moment I mean it reminded me of [TS]

00:35:58   some of the stuff and if anybody's [TS]

00:36:00   played the game mass effect has a has [TS]

00:36:02   sort of a similar galaxy-spanning you [TS]

00:36:04   know threat approach in there and I [TS]

00:36:07   really dug that I dug that the I think [TS]

00:36:10   it's incredibly clever the way they came [TS]

00:36:12   up with how this you know how this [TS]

00:36:13   machine deals with threats are things [TS]

00:36:17   that perceives as threats for example [TS]

00:36:19   this whole deal with like when you're [TS]

00:36:21   inside the gate in the lobby and it's [TS]

00:36:24   just decides not nothing can move faster [TS]

00:36:26   than like 30 miles an hour [TS]

00:36:28   yeah and all the sudden everything that [TS]

00:36:30   is moving faster and all that stuff they [TS]

00:36:32   all those ships are moving faster [TS]

00:36:33   because that [TS]

00:36:34   it's space that's one does just grind to [TS]

00:36:37   a halt and it really like kills people [TS]

00:36:39   and like but like not in a way that's [TS]

00:36:42   malicious just in a way that's like oh [TS]

00:36:44   yeah you are all going too fast now and [TS]

00:36:47   I thought that the changing of physics [TS]

00:36:48   and stuff like that as a defense [TS]

00:36:50   mechanism i thought was incredibly [TS]

00:36:52   clever and I i really enjoyed that I [TS]

00:36:56   enjoyed that even you know I sort of to [TS]

00:36:58   get back to the point about the [TS]

00:37:00   characters acting very human even the [TS]

00:37:02   the antagonists in that book are acting [TS]

00:37:07   in a way that is somewhat believable you [TS]

00:37:10   know out of fear [TS]

00:37:11   essentially what is your there's a lot [TS]

00:37:12   of antagonism from all of many of these [TS]

00:37:15   books where the bad guys are essentially [TS]

00:37:17   people who just have a difference of [TS]

00:37:19   opinion there's a classic a classic like [TS]

00:37:23   wanting to be wanting to be worldly or [TS]

00:37:28   wanting to turn in on yourself and be [TS]

00:37:31   isolationist in that moment that happens [TS]

00:37:34   where it's like we've been we've been [TS]

00:37:36   shown the possibility of the galaxy all [TS]

00:37:39   these gates that maybe we could open and [TS]

00:37:40   travel elsewhere and some people are [TS]

00:37:43   like oh cool let's do that and other [TS]

00:37:45   people like no no burn it with fire run [TS]

00:37:47   get out get out and that you know that's [TS]

00:37:50   because they're both motivated by the [TS]

00:37:52   same set of I mean the same set of data [TS]

00:37:54   is there and some of them are motivated [TS]

00:37:56   in a very different way than others [TS]

00:37:57   unless you have some of the characters [TS]

00:37:59   are interested about you know going [TS]

00:38:00   through others are worried more about [TS]

00:38:02   what can come through [TS]

00:38:03   yes and I got that is your practical [TS]

00:38:06   practical concerns you know it'sit's but [TS]

00:38:09   then holding just opens them anyway so I [TS]

00:38:11   guess this is what he that's what he [TS]

00:38:13   does but it's interesting because it's [TS]

00:38:16   never always there's a lot of here both [TS]

00:38:18   other characters and never to the book [TS]

00:38:20   that often considers maybe that's not [TS]

00:38:22   actually the best approach [TS]

00:38:24   alright in particular you know like a [TS]

00:38:26   Vassar Allah has a whole thing with him [TS]

00:38:28   where it's just like I just can't tell [TS]

00:38:30   everybody everything how this is your [TS]

00:38:31   really really don't and that's one of my [TS]

00:38:34   favorite moments all the books which is [TS]

00:38:36   just like you're an idiot [TS]

00:38:38   yep but you know and and bad stuff [TS]

00:38:41   happens often when he makes the music he [TS]

00:38:44   starts like three wars within the first [TS]

00:38:46   half [TS]

00:38:46   yeah yeah he's yeah at times he reminds [TS]

00:38:52   me of Captain Kirk at times he reminds [TS]

00:38:53   me of Malcolm Reynolds from from firefly [TS]

00:38:56   where he's yeah he's a he's a good guy [TS]

00:38:59   but uh sometimes he does stuff it's like [TS]

00:39:02   was good why doing that he's good to the [TS]

00:39:05   point of naivete almost except he is [TS]

00:39:08   kind of savvy you know like there are [TS]

00:39:10   generally indications that he is he's [TS]

00:39:13   smart and knows you know what he's doing [TS]

00:39:14   but at the same time he's a blunt [TS]

00:39:17   instrument right like yeah that's he has [TS]

00:39:19   kind of you know everything looks like a [TS]

00:39:21   nail to him and I think I think maybe [TS]

00:39:23   philosophically he also believes that [TS]

00:39:25   that everything is a nail in the end [TS]

00:39:28   yeah and then and then it so it's like [TS]

00:39:30   he realizes that it's messy but he [TS]

00:39:33   doesn't really believe that it's it's [TS]

00:39:36   not the right thing to do even if it's [TS]

00:39:38   even if it's messy there there is a nice [TS]

00:39:40   moment and i believe it's in is it in in [TS]

00:39:43   caliban's war where yes caliban's war [TS]

00:39:47   because he starts to internalise a lot [TS]

00:39:50   of the same sort of cynicism and [TS]

00:39:51   negativity that Miller is paused and his [TS]

00:39:55   crew really gets turned off and his his [TS]

00:39:58   girlfriend basically kicked him out of [TS]

00:40:00   their cabin and leaves the ship and he [TS]

00:40:04   has to do some reassessment of who he is [TS]

00:40:07   and and how he's acting because they're [TS]

00:40:09   basically like hey you're no longer [TS]

00:40:10   acting like that idealistic jackass that [TS]

00:40:12   we love [TS]

00:40:13   now you're just a jackass so that off [TS]

00:40:15   that it like you're not the guy that [TS]

00:40:17   shoots everybody you're the one that [TS]

00:40:19   talks everybody out of shooting [TS]

00:40:20   yeah yeah and then Miller appears [TS]

00:40:23   intervention just to get him but uh I i [TS]

00:40:28   liked you know not only do i like that [TS]

00:40:31   that scope of of the space opera that's [TS]

00:40:33   introduced inhabitants cape that this is [TS]

00:40:35   this galaxy spanning civilization and [TS]

00:40:36   there's a thread and they're all these [TS]

00:40:37   gates and humanity has a chance to [TS]

00:40:39   explore further because that one of the [TS]

00:40:43   subplots of all three books is that the [TS]

00:40:45   Mormons have tried to build this big [TS]

00:40:46   spaceship and they're going to set it on [TS]

00:40:47   my unit to another star system and can [TS]

00:40:49   take generations for it to get there and [TS]

00:40:51   it doesn't really work out and they [TS]

00:40:53   repurpose the spaceship a few times but [TS]

00:40:55   you know there's that is setting up like [TS]

00:40:58   well forget [TS]

00:41:00   having two other other solar systems [TS]

00:41:02   that trope of sci-fi is not going to be [TS]

00:41:04   in this but wait maybe it is more i like [TS]

00:41:07   that and like so i like how weird the [TS]

00:41:09   space stations i really felt like the [TS]

00:41:11   the alien machinery once you are you [TS]

00:41:16   know once holdings able to talk to it i [TS]

00:41:18   love how weird alien it is and how it's [TS]

00:41:20   not even like the machinery like like [TS]

00:41:22   Miller is like the interface to the [TS]

00:41:25   machinery trying to it's just it's [TS]

00:41:29   fascinating because I I like that it's [TS]

00:41:31   complicated and weird because it should [TS]

00:41:33   be like when you see sci-fi movies where [TS]

00:41:35   you know you can just take out you take [TS]

00:41:38   your powerbook and hack into the alien [TS]

00:41:39   computer you roll your eyes and that [TS]

00:41:42   this is like no no la if we met aliens [TS]

00:41:44   or alien systems it would be really [TS]

00:41:46   strange and inhabit escape [TS]

00:41:48   it's really strange it is and 2001 [TS]

00:41:50   strange just like bizarre stuff [TS]

00:41:54   yeah yeah I enjoyed that it's it's a li [TS]

00:41:56   it's not just like a palette swap or [TS]

00:41:58   it's like oh they're basically people [TS]

00:42:00   but with like different colored you know [TS]

00:42:02   different numbers of limbs or a [TS]

00:42:03   different color do have three eyes [TS]

00:42:06   yeah exactly though I mean without [TS]

00:42:07   really thinking about the consequences [TS]

00:42:08   thereof this you know this seems [TS]

00:42:10   actually thought out in like there's [TS]

00:42:12   there's a reason behind this whole [TS]

00:42:14   civilization or you and we don't even [TS]

00:42:16   you know that's the fascinating thing is [TS]

00:42:17   like if you asked like water water what [TS]

00:42:20   do the aliens from these books look like [TS]

00:42:22   we never see one now all dead all that [TS]

00:42:25   this is just the systems they built that [TS]

00:42:26   that continue on without them like the [TS]

00:42:29   woman is like the aqueducts in the roads [TS]

00:42:31   in the Romans had all died off [TS]

00:42:33   yeah so the next book is a siebel burn [TS]

00:42:40   which i've only read the first like five [TS]

00:42:43   chapters of so how is it it is it is as [TS]

00:42:48   distinct from you you mean is adjusting [TS]

00:42:52   for the rest of them as they all are [TS]

00:42:53   right it's it's a very different book [TS]

00:42:55   just to set up the premise you know now [TS]

00:42:57   that these gates are open people have [TS]

00:42:59   basically gone through and started [TS]

00:43:01   settling in particular one planet that [TS]

00:43:03   they that seems to be habitable by [TS]

00:43:05   humans and there is a political dispute [TS]

00:43:09   over it in terms of there are squatters [TS]

00:43:11   who basically you know [TS]

00:43:13   internship and flew out there before [TS]

00:43:14   anybody else could get there but there's [TS]

00:43:17   also a company that's like a mining [TS]

00:43:19   company that owned theoretically owns [TS]

00:43:22   the rights to that planet or has you [TS]

00:43:23   know a deal with the UN 2m basically [TS]

00:43:27   colonize and resource farming the planet [TS]

00:43:30   right so there's some conflict there and [TS]

00:43:33   we meet a couple new uh Brittany [TS]

00:43:35   narrators including a couple of whom who [TS]

00:43:38   have appeared previously in the series [TS]

00:43:39   as minor character i believe there are [TS]

00:43:42   two in that book who are three who have [TS]

00:43:45   already met in the series and there's [TS]

00:43:48   some interesting fallout from stuff [TS]

00:43:50   that's happened in the series already [TS]

00:43:52   both for those characters and for some [TS]

00:43:54   of the other characters but it's a very [TS]

00:43:57   you know I it's interesting because [TS]

00:43:59   looking at it without giving too much [TS]

00:44:01   way for those of our panelists who [TS]

00:44:02   haven't read it thanks we get into the [TS]

00:44:04   same situation of being like you know [TS]

00:44:06   that happens get dresses like well as [TS]

00:44:09   people should we really just be jumping [TS]

00:44:11   onto these brand new planets and [TS]

00:44:13   settling them like should we check that [TS]

00:44:14   out first or should we just like let's [TS]

00:44:16   just go because they had a planet has [TS]

00:44:18   got like tunnels and and structures and [TS]

00:44:22   things that were left by whoever lived [TS]

00:44:25   there before [TS]

00:44:26   whatever happened to the gates and [TS]

00:44:29   everything happened it's not like I mean [TS]

00:44:31   and literally people are just like hey [TS]

00:44:33   but there's lithium here let's mine it [TS]

00:44:35   sneaky ass a dead civilization and alien [TS]

00:44:37   creatures and are you really thinking [TS]

00:44:39   this through it but they're in and [TS]

00:44:42   they're really excited about the fact [TS]

00:44:43   that there is another planet because a [TS]

00:44:45   lot of the tension earlier on in the [TS]

00:44:47   series comes from the fact that you have [TS]

00:44:50   these two you essentially have your [TS]

00:44:52   Arthur's you're Martians and your [TS]

00:44:56   belters and the fact that both the [TS]

00:44:58   Martians and the belters grew up in [TS]

00:45:00   different gravitational situations which [TS]

00:45:02   leads to some physiological differences [TS]

00:45:05   right there is like a racial divide [TS]

00:45:07   yeah and so having another planet turns [TS]

00:45:09   out to be an interesting tension [TS]

00:45:12   political tension factor because it's [TS]

00:45:14   like oh well now you know how does that [TS]

00:45:17   factor into all these pre-existing [TS]

00:45:18   divides in terms of how we've [TS]

00:45:20   categorized people thus far and the [TS]

00:45:22   belters are the ones who do the Wildcat [TS]

00:45:24   colony on this plan [TS]

00:45:25   and it's also funny because on one level [TS]

00:45:28   they're trying to ban together as [TS]

00:45:30   belters on another level if if they [TS]

00:45:33   colonize a planet [TS]

00:45:36   they're not there they're children are [TS]

00:45:38   not going to be belters anymore either [TS]

00:45:40   going to look like earth people and and [TS]

00:45:42   Mars people because they're grown and [TS]

00:45:43   gravity [TS]

00:45:44   yeah so the I know they're gonna they're [TS]

00:45:46   gonna be abandoning they may feel like [TS]

00:45:48   they're like supporting their people but [TS]

00:45:49   they're actually going to be abandoning [TS]

00:45:50   their life entirely by doing that so [TS]

00:45:53   that's fascinating wrinkle to like we're [TS]

00:45:56   and we thought we were out of real [TS]

00:45:57   estate so we were colonizing out here [TS]

00:45:59   and now it turns out there's unlimited [TS]

00:46:00   real estate so what happens next right [TS]

00:46:02   and and the questions of just like how [TS]

00:46:05   you know human beings being naturally [TS]

00:46:07   tribal to a certain extent like how do [TS]

00:46:09   you draw those line right terms of like [TS]

00:46:11   your identity when it comes to a new [TS]

00:46:13   planet when it's a and somehow there's [TS]

00:46:16   always an element of us versus them and [TS]

00:46:19   that comes into play in terms of [TS]

00:46:20   settling this new planet between these [TS]

00:46:22   these conflicting parties [TS]

00:46:23   the reviews are relative said also that [TS]

00:46:25   the this feels like sort of part one of [TS]

00:46:28   the next act of this series that you [TS]

00:46:29   have partly important that the first act [TS]

00:46:31   was opening the gates essentially and [TS]

00:46:34   this is this is part this is a [TS]

00:46:36   transitional book that setting up this [TS]

00:46:38   next phase of the storyline and [TS]

00:46:40   apparently they've signed deal where [TS]

00:46:41   they're gonna be like five more of these [TS]

00:46:42   at least so yeah well i was fascinated [TS]

00:46:44   because I'm you know having now finish [TS]

00:46:47   that book and and thought about you know [TS]

00:46:49   sort of how different all of these books [TS]

00:46:51   are from each other i'm sort of just [TS]

00:46:53   really intrigued to see what the next [TS]

00:46:55   book is because even if you're setting [TS]

00:46:57   up a new Act it feels like the pattern [TS]

00:46:59   is that all of these books are so [TS]

00:47:01   different from the other books yeah and [TS]

00:47:03   so the kind of the way this leaves off [TS]

00:47:05   in some ways because all the books seem [TS]

00:47:07   to end with a certain amount of epilogue [TS]

00:47:08   that has like hints of where we're going [TS]

00:47:11   next and the hints that they started [TS]

00:47:12   dropping this book suggests well we're [TS]

00:47:15   going we're not going to like [TS]

00:47:16   necessarily directly follow up on the [TS]

00:47:18   stuff here but it's going to have an [TS]

00:47:20   impact on what we're looking at next in [TS]

00:47:22   the whole like state of play for all of [TS]

00:47:24   these factions right anything else [TS]

00:47:27   anybody want to say about the series [TS]

00:47:28   other than we like it you should you [TS]

00:47:30   should you should read it I think before [TS]

00:47:33   the TV show comes on maybe you should [TS]

00:47:35   you should read it there fun it is it is [TS]

00:47:37   one of the best science fiction series I [TS]

00:47:39   feel that I've read in years and [TS]

00:47:40   certainly one of the best i think [TS]

00:47:42   probably the best space opera I've read [TS]

00:47:44   since the Vorkosigan saga which is my [TS]

00:47:47   favorite space of plateau I feel I i'm [TS]

00:47:49   highly enjoyed it I I sort of burned [TS]

00:47:51   through these and I've really just I've [TS]

00:47:53   immersed myself in them and I haven't [TS]

00:47:55   found a book series that I've just [TS]

00:47:58   fallen into so completely as this in a [TS]

00:48:01   very long time so it was it was a [TS]

00:48:03   delightful read my house recommend it [TS]

00:48:05   oh I was gonna say if if I were in deep [TS]

00:48:08   in rehearsing a show right now I [TS]

00:48:09   probably would have pounded right [TS]

00:48:10   through the second and third one hand [TS]

00:48:12   because yeah it just it's fun it's fun [TS]

00:48:17   there's no doubt about it Scott do you [TS]

00:48:19   what your feelings are your feelings I [TS]

00:48:23   have no feelings i enjoyed reading i [TS]

00:48:27   think the phone i'll read the next one [TS]

00:48:28   when it comes out in like whatever [TS]

00:48:30   extremely they turn them out every month [TS]

00:48:33   or something [TS]

00:48:33   yeah it's craziness and I'm surprised [TS]

00:48:36   how good they are given their rapid [TS]

00:48:37   development i I'm intrigued [TS]

00:48:39   I wonder how they do this how they there [TS]

00:48:42   two guys that are writing these and I [TS]

00:48:44   just wonder what their processes like [TS]

00:48:45   maybe Daniel Abraham and ty Franck are [TS]

00:48:47   themselves pen names each representing [TS]

00:48:50   two people and then they have two people [TS]

00:48:53   and they have two people and there's [TS]

00:48:54   actually like a hundred and twenty-eight [TS]

00:48:55   people who read these books [TS]

00:48:56   crowdsourcing it could be [TS]

00:48:58   it's amazing just google docs you set up [TS]

00:49:01   a google doc you share with some friends [TS]

00:49:02   you got a novel we got to love you [TS]

00:49:04   haven't got a TV deal just like that [TS]

00:49:06   doing this all the wrong way [TS]

00:49:07   yeah seriously but there's a lot of fun [TS]

00:49:09   i like them i think that they feel [TS]

00:49:11   modern and rooted in our current time [TS]

00:49:15   like that was talking about how he's [TS]

00:49:18   kind of burnt out with this this post [TS]

00:49:20   human thing that same sci-fi authors are [TS]

00:49:22   going because charles stross like that [TS]

00:49:24   charles stross book we read with the [TS]

00:49:25   name of money and the mermaid right I [TS]

00:49:27   couldn't finish it I couldn't have [TS]

00:49:29   started reading and i got like 50 pages [TS]

00:49:30   and i'm like a just i don't i don't care [TS]

00:49:33   about these people representing people [TS]

00:49:35   they're like robots that I don't know [TS]

00:49:37   whether it's a 2312 or whatever the heck [TS]

00:49:40   that was all I almost twenty-three [TS]

00:49:42   twelve and get that either [TS]

00:49:44   then you probably know how fast money [TS]

00:49:46   and Slow Money work now [TS]

00:49:48   hold on let me check really quick nope [TS]

00:49:51   okay with that [TS]

00:49:52   yeah I'm good I can tell you later day [TS]

00:49:55   yeah okay thank you so much five guys in [TS]

00:49:57   the textbook LOL i've got a webinar on [TS]

00:49:59   it but yeah but a lot of fun there they [TS]

00:50:03   they certainly feel like if current [TS]

00:50:08   people were transported to the future [TS]

00:50:10   and what would happen and i don't mean [TS]

00:50:13   that in a bad way [TS]

00:50:14   you know like damn samey characters act [TS]

00:50:17   like you think they would and they feel [TS]

00:50:20   like people which is a high compliment [TS]

00:50:21   and the aliens are weird and cool stuff [TS]

00:50:24   happens [TS]

00:50:25   yeah yeah i like that i mean again re in [TS]

00:50:28   reality you know it 200 years in the [TS]

00:50:31   future people will probably behave [TS]

00:50:33   there'll be things about human nature [TS]

00:50:34   will be the same but there'll be a lot [TS]

00:50:35   of trap trappings will be very different [TS]

00:50:37   and horrifying it's the it's that damn [TS]

00:50:39   kids thing taken like times a hundred [TS]

00:50:42   but um and that can be interesting [TS]

00:50:44   speculation but on another level i also [TS]

00:50:46   enjoy science fiction where the [TS]

00:50:47   characters feel human in a strange [TS]

00:50:49   situation but recognizably human [TS]

00:50:51   behaving the same way and maybe you know [TS]

00:50:53   saying some things about how you know [TS]

00:50:54   what human nature is and how we behave [TS]

00:50:56   today and I i like that and and I i'm [TS]

00:51:00   with you guys [TS]

00:51:01   posthuman complications are interesting [TS]

00:51:04   but it was nice to read something where [TS]

00:51:07   I felt like I was can I was being a [TS]

00:51:09   watching a movie or TV show in my head [TS]

00:51:11   what he's really good well-drawn [TS]

00:51:13   characters who were recognizable to me [TS]

00:51:15   as people fun is underfunded under [TS]

00:51:18   rabies [TS]

00:51:18   yeah and having read the first one not [TS]

00:51:21   knowing anything about you know this [TS]

00:51:23   obviously this was before the TV series [TS]

00:51:24   but once I heard about the TV deal i was [TS]

00:51:27   like oh that makes perfect sense just [TS]

00:51:28   reading the first one was like yeah I [TS]

00:51:29   can totally see this is a TV show and [TS]

00:51:31   reading the other three it even have [TS]

00:51:34   hammers at home even more [TS]

00:51:35   yeah yeah season 4 on a planet actually [TS]

00:51:39   actually in terms of TV construction i [TS]

00:51:40   was also thinking that one of the [TS]

00:51:42   brilliant things about this is that they [TS]

00:51:43   it is not like a book of space battles [TS]

00:51:47   right it's a lot of conversations and [TS]

00:51:49   people in enclosed spaces whether it's [TS]

00:51:51   on earth or on a space station or on a [TS]

00:51:53   spaceship having character moments and [TS]

00:51:56   punctuated by exciting space things but [TS]

00:52:00   uh [TS]

00:52:02   but also it just it seemed eminently sh [TS]

00:52:05   fillable let that boy [TS]

00:52:07   kind of reminds me of it makes me think [TS]

00:52:09   of the wire honestly it's like every [TS]

00:52:11   season has a slightly different [TS]

00:52:13   yes with a slightly different set of [TS]

00:52:15   characters some characters carryover [TS]

00:52:16   between the seasons but they're each [TS]

00:52:18   sort of distinct and tell their own [TS]

00:52:20   story within themselves right and it all [TS]

00:52:23   connects in a larger City and we find [TS]

00:52:25   out emphasis from Baltimore ya sister [TS]

00:52:27   multiple through that's amazing [TS]

00:52:31   alright well so there it is the expanse [TS]

00:52:34   if you're still listening because you [TS]

00:52:36   don't care about spreading horns go read [TS]

00:52:38   it i am already mall ball so novellas to [TS]

00:52:43   their kind of so now the i will seek [TS]

00:52:45   those out after i'm done with the fourth [TS]

00:52:46   book was gonna say one of the things I [TS]

00:52:47   really like about it is that it is large [TS]

00:52:49   enough to also be able to have these [TS]

00:52:51   novellas with smaller stories and focus [TS]

00:52:54   on characters that might not be you know [TS]

00:52:57   that might not get a giant part of one [TS]

00:53:00   of the books but you can still meet [TS]

00:53:02   again fitting in that whole television [TS]

00:53:03   episodic thing you know this is like a [TS]

00:53:06   special episode in the middle of the [TS]

00:53:07   season [TS]

00:53:08   yeah that's true and so one of the [TS]

00:53:10   novellas I tell him a story one tells [TS]

00:53:13   Fred Johnson story and then the third [TS]

00:53:17   one tells the story of Bobby's cousin [TS]

00:53:21   which is kinda weird but it's fun [TS]

00:53:23   Stephen Draper who shows that me does he [TS]

00:53:26   shows up in the prologue a book i look [TS]

00:53:28   for ya so his story is told nice alright [TS]

00:53:33   now let's move on and play that game [TS]

00:53:35   that we've been playing since episode [TS]

00:53:36   number one which is what are you reading [TS]

00:53:40   where we get to talk about some books [TS]

00:53:42   that we've been reading lately that we [TS]

00:53:43   would like to recommend ideally [TS]

00:53:45   recommend or maybe warn people away from [TS]

00:53:48   fine that works too [TS]

00:53:50   dan what are you reading she's like to [TS]

00:53:53   finish this book white guy you're [TS]

00:53:54   reading my experience you say [TS]

00:53:58   tell us about that it's like that seems [TS]

00:54:00   like cheating yeah I don't know what to [TS]

00:54:02   read next I had a couple things on my [TS]

00:54:04   list and I had a few things on sort of [TS]

00:54:05   my mine bedside table that I'd had [TS]

00:54:09   stacked out before your reading [TS]

00:54:10   experience where you reading anything to [TS]

00:54:12   do anything good the last like six [TS]

00:54:13   months and [TS]

00:54:14   well what the hell that I read before [TS]

00:54:16   you think about it will come back to you [TS]

00:54:17   David are you ready [TS]

00:54:19   what have you been reading while the [TS]

00:54:21   other book i have a book market right [TS]

00:54:23   now is I haven't gotten a tie-in novel [TS]

00:54:27   and I don't know how long but they just [TS]

00:54:30   came out with a a doctor who novel about [TS]

00:54:34   the war doctor and I thought okay I'm [TS]

00:54:37   curious and it's it's called engines of [TS]

00:54:41   war by George man with two ends and it's [TS]

00:54:47   it's kind of interesting you know you [TS]

00:54:50   can you can really see very well here [TS]

00:54:52   John Hurt doing this line so I think [TS]

00:54:55   he's really caught the character and I [TS]

00:54:57   took a break from it to go into [TS]

00:54:59   Leviathan wakes so I'm kind of curious [TS]

00:55:01   to see how it wraps on but I'm liking it [TS]

00:55:04   so far [TS]

00:55:05   all right now I know you love tie-in [TS]

00:55:07   novels too well the eye from your eyes [TS]

00:55:10   for her earliest i have it [TS]

00:55:12   I've curved by habit but yes I used to [TS]

00:55:13   have tons of channels i still have a few [TS]

00:55:16   all right Scott what what have you been [TS]

00:55:18   reading lately that you recommend i get [TS]

00:55:20   so many books that i read because you [TS]

00:55:22   tell me to read them [TS]

00:55:23   so what tell me what to read scott well [TS]

00:55:25   as i was reading the expense i tweeted [TS]

00:55:27   about this book earlier today actually [TS]

00:55:29   it made me think of this series the [TS]

00:55:31   paradox trilogy that i read that's by [TS]

00:55:34   Rachel bak i read it sometime early this [TS]

00:55:37   year three books obviously because [TS]

00:55:39   trilogy fortunes pawn honors night and [TS]

00:55:43   heavens queen and luckily for me I [TS]

00:55:46   started reading it and they decided I [TS]

00:55:48   guess they have these backlog because [TS]

00:55:50   they came out a one month at a time so [TS]

00:55:53   it was very convenient for me because i [TS]

00:55:55   started reading it [TS]

00:55:56   well the first one came out and then I [TS]

00:55:57   had to wait a month for the second one [TS]

00:55:59   and the third one and these are right [TS]

00:56:01   from the beginning space opera it's a a [TS]

00:56:03   woman is the the main character and [TS]

00:56:06   she's kind of like this power arm pilot [TS]

00:56:09   and she gets mixed up power armor i [TS]

00:56:11   should say no power that beard highly [TS]

00:56:14   specific skills but she gets mixed up in [TS]

00:56:19   this crazy like a psychic monster thing [TS]

00:56:23   that's happening in a secret society [TS]

00:56:24   that's protecting the universe [TS]

00:56:27   to it's a very interesting book and it's [TS]

00:56:30   always nice to read the sign switching [TS]

00:56:31   book that has a female lead [TS]

00:56:35   so check those out are the first ones to [TS]

00:56:38   dollars [TS]

00:56:39   Jason I can answer your question now a [TS]

00:56:41   damn what are you reading [TS]

00:56:43   fortunately I've been cataloging my my [TS]

00:56:45   books this year and I just remembered [TS]

00:56:47   that I don't like that reads page 0 but [TS]

00:56:49   normal so ironically enough the book i [TS]

00:56:52   read directly before Leviathan wakes [TS]

00:56:54   which sort of ease me into it was a star [TS]

00:56:57   wars book but it was written by James sa [TS]

00:56:59   Corey oh yeah I'm honor among thieves [TS]

00:57:02   which is a han Solo book that takes [TS]

00:57:05   place after star after a new hope it was [TS]

00:57:09   okay i wouldn't say it was great but it [TS]

00:57:12   was in good enough that it made me check [TS]

00:57:14   out what else was under the name James [TS]

00:57:16   sa Corey and I was like oh I think Scott [TS]

00:57:18   like that book i should read it directly [TS]

00:57:21   before that I read another actually a [TS]

00:57:22   really good book that i will recommend [TS]

00:57:24   called hot led Coldiron by an author [TS]

00:57:28   named marimar Mel [TS]

00:57:29   normal I don't know but it is a sort of [TS]

00:57:33   urban fantasy book set in 1930s Chicago [TS]

00:57:35   following API named Mick Oberon who is [TS]

00:57:39   actually from who is actually a ferry [TS]

00:57:42   from the buffet [TS]

00:57:43   it has a little bit of intrigue fantasy [TS]

00:57:46   intrigued but also mobsters and yeah a [TS]

00:57:49   little bit more angle to it I thought it [TS]

00:57:51   was quite good [TS]

00:57:52   very funny well written i believe there [TS]

00:57:54   are more following books coming out in [TS]

00:57:57   that series and i would recommend it [TS]

00:58:00   Jason what are you reading oh thank you [TS]

00:58:02   for asking Scott that's very kind of you [TS]

00:58:04   I we're going to do a book club in a few [TS]

00:58:07   weeks about this i I've read some urban [TS]

00:58:10   fantasy sort of siren lung London [TS]

00:58:12   falling by paul cornell and i bought the [TS]

00:58:14   sequel but i haven't read it yet and I [TS]

00:58:16   read the latest been an individual not [TS]

00:58:19   the latest i read the next Peter Grant [TS]

00:58:21   book moon over soho those are series the [TS]

00:58:25   intervention paul cornell both Doctor [TS]

00:58:27   Who writers both now writing urban [TS]

00:58:30   fantasy about law enforcement with magic [TS]

00:58:33   in London so lots of similarities lots [TS]

00:58:36   of differences but both could really [TS]

00:58:39   good [TS]

00:58:40   dan I know you've been you've been [TS]

00:58:41   reading the peter grant i have i think i [TS]

00:58:45   am up to date on it [TS]

00:58:47   yeah I think you're right there's one [TS]

00:58:48   come i think there's one coming out this [TS]

00:58:49   fall though I think I just like four of [TS]

00:58:51   them or five hours i read for and I [TS]

00:58:53   think the right one is coming out this [TS]

00:58:55   fall [TS]

00:58:55   yeah so I read over the second it was [TS]

00:58:57   really good i really like to have [TS]

00:58:59   enjoyed all of river when I mean yeah [TS]

00:59:00   they're quick reads and there's some [TS]

00:59:03   more interesting stuff that again as it [TS]

00:59:05   goes a lot of things get a little more [TS]

00:59:06   complex and there was a there was a [TS]

00:59:08   genuine moment when the last books when [TS]

00:59:10   I was like what is going on yeah well [TS]

00:59:13   it's funny I the baronage books there's [TS]

00:59:15   a basically magic something happened and [TS]

00:59:18   now it's almost nobody who can do magic [TS]

00:59:20   and then this this young the young [TS]

00:59:23   detective are young police officer ends [TS]

00:59:27   up meeting this old white guy he's a [TS]

00:59:30   young black police officer old white guy [TS]

00:59:32   who knows magic and sort of takes him [TS]

00:59:34   under his wing and explains to him that [TS]

00:59:36   he's gonna maybe be a magician and it [TS]

00:59:39   you know it's it's pretty cool [TS]

00:59:41   london falling it's sort of like there's [TS]

00:59:42   a there's a good team of people in the [TS]

00:59:45   police who are investigating a crime and [TS]

00:59:47   through an accident they basically are [TS]

00:59:50   granted special magical sight and so [TS]

00:59:52   they they are then basically told okay [TS]

00:59:55   well I guess you're the magic cops but [TS]

00:59:58   they're very similar very similar in [TS]

00:59:59   both [TS]

00:59:59   both [TS]

01:00:00   really good they're both really good so [TS]

01:00:03   paul cornell and Ben Aaron a bitch i [TS]

01:00:05   read sherry priests book dreadknot which [TS]

01:00:07   is the sequel to Boneshaker which we [TS]

01:00:09   talked about in like episode 1 she's [TS]

01:00:12   gonna that I've been taking that series [TS]

01:00:14   slow but it's it's a it's called a [TS]

01:00:16   clockwork century series it's a [TS]

01:00:18   steampunk there's Evelyn's to answer the [TS]

01:00:21   age-old question are there Zeppelin's [TS]

01:00:23   their resemblance there like hijacked [TS]

01:00:25   Confederate Zeppelin's it's an old [TS]

01:00:26   history where the Confederate war or the [TS]

01:00:28   the civil war rages for like 40 years [TS]

01:00:30   and they're zombies in seattle and [TS]

01:00:33   there's there's little cross-linked [TS]

01:00:34   characters and ever i go i just am [TS]

01:00:37   trying to stretch those out but every [TS]

01:00:39   time I read one I I go wow these are [TS]

01:00:41   really great so Sheree priests clockwork [TS]

01:00:44   century i read my real children by John [TS]

01:00:47   Walton I know it's got you read that I [TS]

01:00:49   didn't really like it I really loved it [TS]

01:00:51   i thought it was fantastic it is not [TS]

01:00:53   quite science fiction except in the idea [TS]

01:00:55   that there's kind of a split where a [TS]

01:00:59   woman has to make a decision and then [TS]

01:01:00   she leads to lives and we see both of [TS]

01:01:03   both of the lives of based on that [TS]

01:01:05   decision and the very end she sort of [TS]

01:01:08   like the waveform collapses and she's [TS]

01:01:10   remembering she's very old and she's got [TS]

01:01:13   two sets of memories but really it's not [TS]

01:01:15   super science fiction but it's it and [TS]

01:01:17   it's very different from most books [TS]

01:01:19   because she's he has to tell like to [TS]

01:01:20   complete life stories so there's a lot [TS]

01:01:22   of like scenes and then a lot of summary [TS]

01:01:25   of things that happen in this woman's [TS]

01:01:26   life in these two timelines man is good [TS]

01:01:29   it's really good about your Walton so i [TS]

01:01:32   also finally red tooth and claw by John [TS]

01:01:34   Walton which scott recommended this is [TS]

01:01:36   the most this is the book where I'm all [TS]

01:01:37   the characters are dragons and they all [TS]

01:01:39   wear sound like Jane Austen yeah they [TS]

01:01:41   wear that hat say anywhere have you [TS]

01:01:43   yes ok i remember this dragons wear hats [TS]

01:01:46   they do it's very serious and I i [TS]

01:01:48   started I had on my kindle for like a [TS]

01:01:49   year and like dragons and I don't know [TS]

01:01:51   and I finally read it and steal my god [TS]

01:01:53   it's great it really is great it is a [TS]

01:01:56   Jane Austen novel it's ok it's like a [TS]

01:01:59   comedy of manners and about the Dragons [TS]

01:02:02   yeah and every now and then when you [TS]

01:02:05   think you best start to think of them as [TS]

01:02:06   people then my Dragon will like each [TS]

01:02:09   another dragon ya and you'll be like [TS]

01:02:11   alright dragon gotta drink [TS]

01:02:13   it's it's it sounds ridiculous and it is [TS]

01:02:16   ridiculous and yet you know what it is [TS]

01:02:18   fantastic and very and very fun because [TS]

01:02:21   it is in that style of coincidences and [TS]

01:02:25   connections and you can see how the plot [TS]

01:02:27   is going to connect together and have a [TS]

01:02:29   an amusing result in the end this couple [TS]

01:02:32   is are they going to come together or [TS]

01:02:34   not and all of that except they're all [TS]

01:02:35   dragons and they are eating each other [TS]

01:02:38   it's it's downloading to my kindle yeah [TS]

01:02:40   it's a bit kind of the other book that [TS]

01:02:42   i've been reading lately and I feel like [TS]

01:02:44   I'm i can justify this because I'm I'm [TS]

01:02:47   currently unemployed yeah my own book [TS]

01:02:50   ok sure residents real cold resurrection [TS]

01:02:54   man damn it doesn't currently have a [TS]

01:02:55   title [TS]

01:02:56   ok a lot of change everything I've [TS]

01:02:59   worked on by this time is dead body if [TS]

01:03:01   you send me a check scotch tonight [TS]

01:03:04   copy of this book exclusive copy of this [TS]

01:03:07   book [TS]

01:03:08   whoo it's coming along it's right when [TS]

01:03:10   I've only been working out for five [TS]

01:03:12   years [TS]

01:03:12   pixel pretty sure we'll be done any day [TS]

01:03:14   and maybe this is the year when when you [TS]

01:03:17   and I finally come out with her books [TS]

01:03:18   now that we did it's just what I do this [TS]

01:03:20   is what I'm literally spending all of my [TS]

01:03:22   time on right now that is not involve a [TS]

01:03:24   podcast alright i will i read i look [TS]

01:03:27   forward to seeing her totally different [TS]

01:03:29   it is from the first draft that i read i [TS]

01:03:30   think you'll enjoy it alright my god i [TS]

01:03:32   hope so i read while i was on vacation i [TS]

01:03:36   read gone girl which is you know I [TS]

01:03:38   bestseller home [TS]

01:03:40   it's really good movie yeah it's gonna [TS]

01:03:42   be heavy it's a really good book Gillian [TS]

01:03:43   Gillian Flynn who once interviewed me [TS]

01:03:45   for five minutes for Entertainment [TS]

01:03:47   Weekly that's my claim to fame that's my [TS]

01:03:49   blending it shouldn't be about TV dot [TS]

01:03:52   org for like a 200-word article in [TS]

01:03:55   entertainment weekly and now she's at [TS]

01:03:57   best only medalist but it's a it's a [TS]

01:03:58   really good book really good yeah I I [TS]

01:04:02   without their twists and they're very [TS]

01:04:05   interesting characters and it's it's [TS]

01:04:07   maybe not the book you should choose to [TS]

01:04:09   read on your vacation for your 20th [TS]

01:04:10   wedding anniversary has not romantic in [TS]

01:04:14   any way but it is really great so man [TS]

01:04:17   don't run away i read a world of trouble [TS]

01:04:21   which is the third [TS]

01:04:24   and final book in the last policeman [TS]

01:04:26   trilogy [TS]

01:04:27   uh-huh which is the the trilogy set [TS]

01:04:30   where an asteroid is a going to hit the [TS]

01:04:33   earth and this detective everyone's kind [TS]

01:04:35   of given up on their lives because the [TS]

01:04:37   plants can be destroyed but this one [TS]

01:04:39   detective is looking for stuff we might [TS]

01:04:41   we might talk about that sometime to [TS]

01:04:43   lisa has been agitating because Lisa [TS]

01:04:44   loves it when the earth is destroyed [TS]

01:04:46   home and you know I was worried when i [TS]

01:04:49   was reading the last book there's gonna [TS]

01:04:50   be some kind of compound like oh no the [TS]

01:04:52   asteroid misses a but I was not despite [TS]

01:04:55   ya know it oh well now I don't have to [TS]

01:04:58   read advanced spoiler [TS]

01:05:00   yeah whoops being the only other book [TS]

01:05:03   I've been reading the last month or so [TS]

01:05:04   has been a record books for research [TS]

01:05:07   bourbon a history of the Americans a [TS]

01:05:10   trap by Dane little bridge that's a fake [TS]

01:05:13   man that's like just steal a total [TS]

01:05:15   effect seriously jack but yes it's a [TS]

01:05:18   very entertaining look at the history of [TS]

01:05:21   bourbon and why it's focused in Kentucky [TS]

01:05:24   and now you know the stuff so its [TS]

01:05:26   research for script for something else [TS]

01:05:27   but not for the radio theatre [TS]

01:05:30   no but I'm sure details will be sure to [TS]

01:05:33   that of course that's just how it works [TS]

01:05:36   after we get our episode about 77 1776 [TS]

01:05:38   the musical i did actually read David [TS]

01:05:40   McCullough 70 1776 which is a great look [TS]

01:05:44   yeah I wish that there were books at the [TS]

01:05:47   level of detail and skill of that book [TS]

01:05:50   about the other years of the war because [TS]

01:05:52   it is literally just about the year 1776 [TS]

01:05:55   and you get to the end your life but but [TS]

01:05:56   but no tell where 1777 it's not [TS]

01:06:00   nope they're out there is one by someone [TS]

01:06:02   else someone else 1775 [TS]

01:06:05   yeah that that's the run-up to it yeah [TS]

01:06:08   it's a really good book nobody sings [TS]

01:06:09   nobody sings in it by the wanker [TS]

01:06:12   it's not really connected to the musical [TS]

01:06:14   and now rich in any way and well here's [TS]

01:06:17   my nonfiction 14 we haven't done one of [TS]

01:06:18   these in a long time i read a really fun [TS]

01:06:20   book called up up and away the kid the [TS]

01:06:23   hawk rock flatty Pedro like Rhonda raj u [TS]

01:06:26   P the crazy business of baseball and the [TS]

01:06:28   ill-fated but unforgettable montreal [TS]

01:06:30   expos that is the complete title by just [TS]

01:06:33   by jonah keri who is a way a friend of [TS]

01:06:36   the [TS]

01:06:36   the podcast will say he actually used to [TS]

01:06:38   work with Phil Michaels and as [TS]

01:06:40   sportsbooks go it is delightful because [TS]

01:06:42   want baseball in Montreal man that was a [TS]

01:06:45   car crash and the fans the poor fans [TS]

01:06:48   have to have to deal with it anyway [TS]

01:06:51   those are books books are good you [TS]

01:06:53   should read books I Oh guys I right [TS]

01:06:55   finally read good omens [TS]

01:06:56   oh right now i just noticed that as i [TS]

01:06:58   was looking at goodreads yeah I finally [TS]

01:07:00   realized i know people really love it I [TS]

01:07:02   found it gave it a 350 k life I have had [TS]

01:07:06   on a shelf for close to 20 years I still [TS]

01:07:09   have not gotten past page 35 found it [TS]

01:07:12   okay [TS]

01:07:13   Wow no i I've read in many years I [TS]

01:07:15   remember really loving it and I keep [TS]

01:07:18   trying i keep trying because people keep [TS]

01:07:20   saying oh but you it's so you you would [TS]

01:07:23   love it and you know there are parts of [TS]

01:07:25   it that are really hilarious and then [TS]

01:07:27   there are parts of it that they're [TS]

01:07:28   trying they're trying so hard you're [TS]

01:07:30   trying so hard to be yeah quirky in [TS]

01:07:34   English and yeah i mean they are working [TS]

01:07:37   time coming up but i will say people [TS]

01:07:40   versus of the same thing with pratchett [TS]

01:07:42   just in general for me and i have not [TS]

01:07:44   been able to get through anything smile [TS]

01:07:46   that's a shame i love Terry Pratchett I [TS]

01:07:48   like him but don't love them and maybe [TS]

01:07:50   that's the thing i like I want to [TS]

01:07:51   arrange on this for him yeah have a [TS]

01:07:54   great fondness for him and he's very [TS]

01:07:55   different writer from neil gaiman and [TS]

01:07:56   I'm always blown away that the two of [TS]

01:07:58   them collapse yeah it is it's weird [TS]

01:08:00   there's some very funny stuff in it i [TS]

01:08:02   mean there's there's definitely stuff [TS]

01:08:03   where I started and I read it out loud [TS]

01:08:05   to Lauren because it's like get a load [TS]

01:08:08   of this this is really funny but then [TS]

01:08:10   there's no other stuff that's it was [TS]

01:08:12   fine i think it got oversold because i [TS]

01:08:14   know some people think it's like the [TS]

01:08:15   greatest book ever [TS]

01:08:16   yeah that's probably can't leave live up [TS]

01:08:18   to the now it is not an errand [TS]

01:08:19   expectations are hard i definitively say [TS]

01:08:21   it is not the greatest book ever it's no [TS]

01:08:23   great expectations [TS]

01:08:24   yeah yeah you did there yeah i yeah let [TS]

01:08:29   me down to this of the subtitle of great [TS]

01:08:31   expectations is our are not what you [TS]

01:08:33   should have about this book lower the [TS]

01:08:37   expectations right there a Dickens tried [TS]

01:08:39   to put that in for the reviewer he did [TS]

01:08:40   you know everyone locked it off didn't [TS]

01:08:42   really turn seconds on the clock was [TS]

01:08:43   paid by the word so he was patting that [TS]

01:08:45   title [TS]

01:08:45   yeah oh yeah title word sir extra [TS]

01:08:49   alright we've come to the end of the [TS]

01:08:50   book club I want to thank my guests for [TS]

01:08:52   talking about books we should do this [TS]

01:08:54   again sooner than the million years it's [TS]

01:08:57   been since the last one [TS]

01:08:59   not counting the stand which we don't [TS]

01:09:00   care because I was a totally different [TS]

01:09:01   crowd David except for me and David [TS]

01:09:03   David Laura thank you for being here [TS]

01:09:04   thank you [TS]

01:09:06   the pleasure as always as always get [TS]

01:09:09   more'n thanks for being here it's nice [TS]

01:09:11   to hear your voice on a podcast i know [TS]

01:09:14   it's such a rare occurrence these days [TS]

01:09:16   but it's a pleasure to come back to my [TS]

01:09:17   one true home tel tell us about you you [TS]

01:09:20   you people can find you another podcast [TS]

01:09:22   maybe you can find many other podcasts [TS]

01:09:25   uh clockwise yes with some guy named [TS]

01:09:27   Jason yeah which shows up weekly on some [TS]

01:09:31   day of the week that we choose to show [TS]

01:09:32   up house wednesday or thursday usually [TS]

01:09:34   somewhere in the middle of week and just [TS]

01:09:36   starting last week I've started a new [TS]

01:09:38   podcast with two other friends of the [TS]

01:09:41   incompetent i would say maybe that's [TS]

01:09:43   overselling index treatment and John [TS]

01:09:44   Smoltz called the rebound [TS]

01:09:46   yep in which is a shortish tech podcast [TS]

01:09:49   that's maybe funny and probably a little [TS]

01:09:52   bit crass at times but you know that's [TS]

01:09:54   what you get when you hang out with lex [TS]

01:09:55   and John bless you doing small podcasts [TS]

01:09:58   is really loves more fun yes thank God [TS]

01:10:01   will see if anybody likes the second [TS]

01:10:03   episode we've decided maybe just saw it [TS]

01:10:05   already haha dropping like while you're [TS]

01:10:08   the first dibs a yes it was it was a lot [TS]

01:10:12   of fun [TS]

01:10:12   dan I haven't listened yet because i [TS]

01:10:14   don't have a community more i go on or [TS]

01:10:19   something and pick up my right I feel [TS]

01:10:21   your pain up i listened to half of your [TS]

01:10:24   of your upgrade podcast with my curling [TS]

01:10:27   and then I had something to do here so [TS]

01:10:31   often happens [TS]

01:10:33   well i mean i got i was i have a lot of [TS]

01:10:35   spare time which i don't have a into [TS]

01:10:36   doing so like I should listen to this [TS]

01:10:38   podcast I never get to listen up i guess [TS]

01:10:39   that this is where we are now just time [TS]

01:10:43   to understand Scott you you know you [TS]

01:10:45   were the one among us who has to go [TS]

01:10:47   somewhere where people pay you [TS]

01:10:49   it's it's a tough lot of my I tell ya [TS]

01:10:52   but ya i'll keep showing up going to [TS]

01:10:55   keep a the books pay for the books i [TS]

01:10:57   guess this is leading up to me saying [TS]

01:10:59   Scott McNulty thank you for being here [TS]

01:11:02   I don't think it's sincere that having [TS]

01:11:04   taken time out of your busy work week of [TS]

01:11:08   Scott Scott's we had we search we we had [TS]

01:11:11   such a moment we we had BBQ together in [TS]

01:11:13   San Jose California it was delicious was [TS]

01:11:15   a special moment it was a special yeah [TS]

01:11:18   and and peanut butter pie and peanut [TS]

01:11:20   butter pie peanut butter pie anyway [TS]

01:11:24   thanks to everybody out there for [TS]

01:11:25   listening to this episode of the book [TS]

01:11:26   club and the uncomfortable we will see [TS]

01:11:28   you next time goodbye [TS]

01:11:46   alright and thanks everybody out there [TS]

01:11:48   for listening to another edition of you [TS]

01:11:51   can thank me [TS]

01:11:52   oh yes exchange there was this because I [TS]

01:11:56   have a job here tomorrow [TS]

01:11:57   I've seen almost everything now I've [TS]

01:12:03   seen things you wouldn't believe it's [TS]

01:12:05   something off the tails ergaster not [TS]

01:12:09   that didn't record on the dan Houser [TS]

01:12:10   gate call recorder files lost like tears [TS]

01:12:16   and rain [TS]

01:12:16   yeah time to digest I and I to hang up [TS]

01:12:22   skype you'll see in 12 hours before the [TS]

01:12:26   but that's hilarious [TS]

01:12:28   this is how we fill our time now [TS]