The Incomparable

210: You Ain`t No Nice Guy


00:00:00   the incomparable number 210 September [TS]

00:00:11   welcome back everybody being comfortable [TS]

00:00:14   i am your host Jason L and I'm convening [TS]

00:00:16   it's not like the retro book club here [TS]

00:00:19   we are going to be talking about Stephen [TS]

00:00:22   King's novel The Stand we have talked [TS]

00:00:24   about Stephen King before we did an [TS]

00:00:25   episode about his book about the time [TS]

00:00:28   traveler goes back to stop the Kennedy [TS]

00:00:30   assassination just what is it called 11 [TS]

00:00:33   2011 22 6363 I can never remember when [TS]

00:00:37   doctor who premiered and when Kennedy [TS]

00:00:39   got assassinated because they're like [TS]

00:00:40   two days apartment i'm a very bad [TS]

00:00:42   student of history and a very good [TS]

00:00:45   student doctor who anyway but we're back [TS]

00:00:48   to talk about the stand one play it is [TS]

00:00:50   my favorite Stephen King novel it is [TS]

00:00:52   also i think my introduction Stephen [TS]

00:00:54   King I've got a great panel with me to [TS]

00:00:57   talk about this book which was first [TS]

00:00:59   published in like 79 and then republish [TS]

00:01:02   tin in vegas 78 and republished in 1990 [TS]

00:01:06   joining me to talk about it [TS]

00:01:09   are these schmeiser hello I'm happy to [TS]

00:01:13   be here when I think about talking about [TS]

00:01:14   Stephen King novels I think of two [TS]

00:01:16   people one of whom is laser miser so [TS]

00:01:18   it's good to have you here thank you [TS]

00:01:19   I also don't think about Monty Ashley [TS]

00:01:22   but he's here and i'm happy to hear you [TS]

00:01:25   had another way there didn't I my money [TS]

00:01:28   hi it's good to have you is it because [TS]

00:01:31   you're delightful surprise [TS]

00:01:33   okay haha i will accept that is not [TS]

00:01:36   quite an insult okay good that's what I [TS]

00:01:38   was sorta not quite going for I I the [TS]

00:01:41   print the other person i like to think [TS]

00:01:43   of when I think of Stephen King novels [TS]

00:01:44   is of course John siracusa who is here [TS]

00:01:47   hello you know after hearing you say to [TS]

00:01:49   all of us that we don't have to talk too [TS]

00:01:51   long about the stand that one thing to [TS]

00:01:53   say to you Jason [TS]

00:01:54   you ain't no nice guy oh my god i love [TS]

00:01:58   it the first reference we're saving it [TS]

00:02:00   for the complete and uncut episode yet [TS]

00:02:03   you have to wait like 15 years between [TS]

00:02:05   the spot for you guys and just talked [TS]

00:02:07   for five hours tonight and all our first [TS]

00:02:10   release a one-hour long version and then [TS]

00:02:12   like for it to about my time also here [TS]

00:02:15   to talk about the stand is Erica and [TS]

00:02:17   sign hello hello [TS]

00:02:19   I have actually had stand by our am [TS]

00:02:21   stuck in my head all day because that's [TS]

00:02:23   nice [TS]

00:02:24   which is why [TS]

00:02:24   hopefully not a great choice since it's [TS]

00:02:26   not at all related but very most boring [TS]

00:02:29   isn't it Erica isn't it the trip [TS]

00:02:32   what should be don't fear the reaper [TS]

00:02:34   hell off the world its butt and [TS]

00:02:37   everybody else out there who hasn't read [TS]

00:02:39   the stand you shouldn't listen to this [TS]

00:02:40   podcast m 00 and spells spoilers [TS]

00:02:43   all right all my god you know just a [TS]

00:02:47   feud [TS]

00:02:48   I think mid last week somebody tweeted [TS]

00:02:51   at Stephen saying MO and spells [TS]

00:02:53   something or other and I was just [TS]

00:02:54   shaking my head because in the middle of [TS]

00:02:56   reading the book and I guess the key is [TS]

00:02:58   not gonna get this but I get that tweet [TS]

00:03:00   I thought we would start by talking a [TS]

00:03:01   little bit about our personal history [TS]

00:03:03   with this book since it's been around [TS]

00:03:05   for awhile I i'll start by saying that I [TS]

00:03:08   heard that this was a great book but I [TS]

00:03:10   didn't read the original I didn't I I [TS]

00:03:12   knew was out there and I had friends who [TS]

00:03:14   are big fans of stephen king and end of [TS]

00:03:15   this book in particular and then there [TS]

00:03:17   was that big publicity campaign in 1990 [TS]

00:03:20   when the complete an uncut addition that [TS]

00:03:22   that is over like a thousand pages i'm [TS]

00:03:26   trying to see 1153 is what my copy says [TS]

00:03:28   came out and I i said ok that's the one [TS]

00:03:31   I'll buy and read and indeed i have the [TS]

00:03:34   first edition and in and inside I have a [TS]

00:03:37   bookmark of the first complete and cut [TS]

00:03:39   addition that actually explains what it [TS]

00:03:41   is from the publisher which is hilarious [TS]

00:03:44   it has a bulleted list of why it's [TS]

00:03:45   bigger from Doubleday that I still uses [TS]

00:03:48   the morning very very helpful anyway III [TS]

00:03:50   in the summer of nineteen ninety i was a [TS]

00:03:53   working a summer job between years of [TS]

00:03:56   college at this as a temp at this like [TS]

00:03:59   power plant out in the middle of nowhere [TS]

00:04:01   with like a hundred and five degrees and [TS]

00:04:03   I remember the lunch hour [TS]

00:04:04   I would sit outside in the shade eating [TS]

00:04:06   my little meager sandwich and drinking [TS]

00:04:08   my little can of soda and reading the [TS]

00:04:11   stand for an hour before going back to [TS]

00:04:12   the mind-numbing work of really honestly [TS]

00:04:16   the super flu could have come at that [TS]

00:04:17   moment and I wouldn't have even noticed [TS]

00:04:19   because i was out in the middle of [TS]

00:04:21   nowhere and if you leave behind payday [TS]

00:04:23   candy bar wrappers [TS]

00:04:24   that's good idea what Harold do so John [TS]

00:04:28   what's your with your history with the [TS]

00:04:30   stand [TS]

00:04:30   well I guess before the internet the [TS]

00:04:33   only way we had to get things was like [TS]

00:04:35   the store or me [TS]

00:04:37   Lauder and remember the Columbia House [TS]

00:04:39   like mail-order things for four cds [TS]

00:04:42   that's kind of how i got into music was [TS]

00:04:43   like that that record thing and there [TS]

00:04:45   was also one for books was it also [TS]

00:04:47   Columbia's I don't even remember anymore [TS]

00:04:48   but was one of those things where you [TS]

00:04:49   pay a dollar and get five free books or [TS]

00:04:51   something like that the quality [TS]

00:04:52   paperback club right yeah i did the [TS]

00:04:54   science-fiction book club [TS]

00:04:56   yep me too i don't i don't remember [TS]

00:04:57   which it was but whatever it was I was [TS]

00:04:59   doing at the same time that I was doing [TS]

00:05:00   is getting the free CDs and and for [TS]

00:05:03   whatever reason I I don't like you know [TS]

00:05:05   fantasy novel paperback before that but [TS]

00:05:07   I got a hardcover the same one you [TS]

00:05:08   probably have Jason the big first [TS]

00:05:10   edition Doubleday hardcover uncut stand [TS]

00:05:13   i don't know how i picked it I probably [TS]

00:05:14   picked it because it was like the big [TS]

00:05:16   thing on the cover of the little sheet [TS]

00:05:18   that you fill out with a little pin and [TS]

00:05:19   the check boxes which free pick your [TS]

00:05:21   five free books and so I don't remember [TS]

00:05:23   what that the books were that I got free [TS]

00:05:25   and i don't remember how I escaped that [TS]

00:05:27   plan probably because i was just a [TS]

00:05:28   teenager and should have been signing up [TS]

00:05:29   for it anyway but anyway I got work [TS]

00:05:32   longer a lot of us and I think it was [TS]

00:05:34   also i wasn't released in the summer [TS]

00:05:35   time I seem to recall reading in the [TS]

00:05:37   summertime as well and so I read through [TS]

00:05:39   that book and when i finished the book i [TS]

00:05:43   put it down and just went back to the [TS]

00:05:45   first page to start over again and [TS]

00:05:47   that's the first look I know I had ever [TS]

00:05:48   done that with and the stand like it was [TS]

00:05:51   was my top favorite book for the longest [TS]

00:05:54   time certainly during all of my teen [TS]

00:05:56   years in young adulthood so I i have [TS]

00:05:58   read the stand more times than I read [TS]

00:06:00   any books except for probably lord of [TS]

00:06:01   the rings Wow all right Erica what's [TS]

00:06:05   your story with the stand [TS]

00:06:06   well we were we were library family we [TS]

00:06:09   went to the library of a couple of weeks [TS]

00:06:11   and my mom would get like 30 books and [TS]

00:06:12   you know I aspired to get that many but [TS]

00:06:14   it wasn't that many and I want to say [TS]

00:06:17   was probably within a year or two of the [TS]

00:06:19   rerelease she I think she my mom had [TS]

00:06:22   originally read the early version and [TS]

00:06:24   then decided she wanted to read the [TS]

00:06:25   expanded version so i didn't know [TS]

00:06:27   anything about the earlier version i [TS]

00:06:29   just saw that she had this book that was [TS]

00:06:31   huge [TS]

00:06:32   I was like yeah I was like okay I need [TS]

00:06:34   to read that book it was just sort of a [TS]

00:06:35   challenge to myself it's that long that [TS]

00:06:38   is something that I i need to to read II [TS]

00:06:40   don't even care what it's about and I [TS]

00:06:42   was probably like a freshman in high [TS]

00:06:43   school at the time so I picked it up and [TS]

00:06:45   I zipped through it probably way faster [TS]

00:06:48   than I [TS]

00:06:48   then I should have because it meant i'm [TS]

00:06:50   skipping a lot of homework and I just [TS]

00:06:53   loved it so I i haven't read it as many [TS]

00:06:55   times as John has but i have read it [TS]

00:06:57   three or this was probably my fourth [TS]

00:07:00   time through but I've never read the [TS]

00:07:01   original version just the like the huge [TS]

00:07:03   one every time we leavin uncut so i have [TS]

00:07:06   read The Lord of the Rings more times [TS]

00:07:07   than this because i used to do that [TS]

00:07:08   annually [TS]

00:07:09   I've read them the same amount which is [TS]

00:07:11   to each so just twice each Monty what's [TS]

00:07:15   your story withstand mom's read it last [TS]

00:07:17   week for the first time never heard of [TS]

00:07:19   it i think i had read the cut version [TS]

00:07:23   once when the uncut version came out I [TS]

00:07:26   got the paperback so I'm a little behind [TS]

00:07:28   you guys looking inside this is the [TS]

00:07:31   first paperback printing from a 1991 how [TS]

00:07:34   much was the paperback [TS]

00:07:36   oh i think i did actually read the paper [TS]

00:07:39   back so would have been about 90 91 when [TS]

00:07:41   the library 690 now she's it's 2495 for [TS]

00:07:44   the hardcover I got I got screwed good [TS]

00:07:46   job way to be a good shopper Monty it [TS]

00:07:48   was free from the library you guys yeah [TS]

00:07:50   the other one of the shiny red ya [TS]

00:07:53   tomorrow colored yeah and as a bonus the [TS]

00:07:56   back announces that the first two dark [TS]

00:07:59   tower books are out but I read this book [TS]

00:08:04   i think four or five times in total but [TS]

00:08:07   whenever i have anything stronger than a [TS]

00:08:09   strong cold i tend to read the [TS]

00:08:11   free-throw I'm miserable and I want to [TS]

00:08:16   imagine that everybody else was soon and [TS]

00:08:18   also be miserable [TS]

00:08:19   this cold is going to kill us all which [TS]

00:08:22   my girlfriend has reminded me that means [TS]

00:08:24   this book that I'm holding is probably [TS]

00:08:26   riddled with disease because I'm always [TS]

00:08:29   reading it when I have the flu [TS]

00:08:31   it is Project Blue maybe it's keeping [TS]

00:08:34   you alive [TS]

00:08:35   whoo yeah I'm just it that's an [TS]

00:08:38   unscientific area a little bit made you [TS]

00:08:40   feel better [TS]

00:08:41   Lisa what's what is your stance story [TS]

00:08:44   summer of nineteen eighty-four i was [TS]

00:08:48   able to start babysitting and that was [TS]

00:08:52   also some my mom graciously agreed to [TS]

00:08:53   drive me to the nearest used bookstore [TS]

00:08:55   and every week i would take the five [TS]

00:08:58   dollars i had earned and I would go [TS]

00:08:59   browse the shelves [TS]

00:09:01   and i bought the stand 11 week with [TS]

00:09:04   along with like four or five other [TS]

00:09:06   stephen king books for my five dollars [TS]

00:09:08   some and I read my way through all the [TS]

00:09:13   short story collections first so i read [TS]

00:09:15   the short story that loosely Precision's [TS]

00:09:17   this book and then i read the stand and [TS]

00:09:21   when you're in seventh grade there's [TS]

00:09:23   always that when I survived the [TS]

00:09:25   apocalypse i'm going to go live in a [TS]

00:09:26   museum fantasy r or whatever but [TS]

00:09:28   delivered [TS]

00:09:30   oh my god i had a plan how it's going to [TS]

00:09:33   DC and live in the Smithsonian that [TS]

00:09:34   everything you and John should compare [TS]

00:09:37   notes John also has something about [TS]

00:09:39   surviving the apocalypse [TS]

00:09:40   yeah but I read the stand and it hit my [TS]

00:09:43   after the apocalypse buttons and then I [TS]

00:09:45   just got sucked in and kept going kept [TS]

00:09:46   going on so it actually turned into kind [TS]

00:09:50   of a comfort read through middle school [TS]

00:09:52   and high school and then the year I [TS]

00:09:54   graduated college in 1994 my first post [TS]

00:09:58   graduate splurge was a paperback of the [TS]

00:10:01   you know completely uncut version and I [TS]

00:10:04   read it [TS]

00:10:05   concurrent with the airing of the [TS]

00:10:07   miniseries and I was on a beach break [TS]

00:10:09   with a friend of mine and this poor [TS]

00:10:10   woman had to listen to me rant and rave [TS]

00:10:12   every night about how bad the gas haha [TS]

00:10:14   its and that's not in the block and and [TS]

00:10:17   well i'm not sure like to do that but i [TS]

00:10:19   think i really like the way that miguel [TS]

00:10:21   ferrer slate that's that's okay so [TS]

00:10:24   you're blown up by a bomb anyway yeah so [TS]

00:10:26   I've had I I've probably read the book [TS]

00:10:28   and I still read the stand once every [TS]

00:10:31   few years when I want an engrossing read [TS]

00:10:34   that I know will reliably entertain me [TS]

00:10:37   and I find something new every time and [TS]

00:10:39   I think it's in reading it in my [TS]

00:10:40   thirties and forties has been a lot [TS]

00:10:41   different than reading it as a [TS]

00:10:42   thirteen-year-old so [TS]

00:10:44   oh yeah I've probably read it about ten [TS]

00:10:46   eleven times maybe [TS]

00:10:48   oh wow so no you know it's again i've [TS]

00:10:50   been reading the same i've been reading [TS]

00:10:52   for 30 years so you know where people [TS]

00:10:55   fair enough yeah wow so I guess the [TS]

00:10:58   logical next thing to ask would be what [TS]

00:11:01   is it about the stand that makes it so [TS]

00:11:03   notable in stephen king's work [TS]

00:11:06   what is it about the stand that has all [TS]

00:11:09   of us have admitted to being [TS]

00:11:10   multiple-time readers of this book and [TS]

00:11:13   you know I I don't do [TS]

00:11:15   not a lot of books that i read there are [TS]

00:11:16   some my wife has a strict no reread [TS]

00:11:18   policy which I don't understand but [TS]

00:11:20   that's our policy admired this i do [TS]

00:11:23   there looked in the world there's always [TS]

00:11:24   other books to read but i don't i don't [TS]

00:11:26   read read a lot but I've reread this and [TS]

00:11:29   will read it again and treasure my copy [TS]

00:11:31   so i think i want to start there which [TS]

00:11:33   is what is it about this book what is it [TS]

00:11:35   that makes it something that stays with [TS]

00:11:37   you and that you want to revisit whether [TS]

00:11:40   you're just feeling sick but it's been [TS]

00:11:43   you or or was thinking about the [TS]

00:11:46   apocalypse that is to come or what I'm [TS]

00:11:48   gonna do is what you guys think [TS]

00:11:50   well I am a reader to start with I have [TS]

00:11:52   a terrible memory so i can't remember [TS]

00:11:54   books or movies until i have read or [TS]

00:11:56   seen them several times and I really [TS]

00:11:58   like this book the first time through [TS]

00:12:00   and afterwards i remembered that i liked [TS]

00:12:02   it i like maybe I remember that feeling [TS]

00:12:04   of a great enjoyment as I went through [TS]

00:12:05   it but I couldn't remember exactly what [TS]

00:12:07   happened [TS]

00:12:08   therefore I decided to read it again and [TS]

00:12:10   again and here we go again so I think [TS]

00:12:13   for me i'm a sucker for apocalypse [TS]

00:12:15   stories and I think I like stories about [TS]

00:12:18   the apocalypse and stories about way [TS]

00:12:21   after the apocalypse [TS]

00:12:22   so the first half of this book is right [TS]

00:12:24   up my alley I do like the second half [TS]

00:12:27   but it definitely tapers off as far as [TS]

00:12:29   enjoyment goes so i think quite often [TS]

00:12:31   when i start reading it I'm rereading [TS]

00:12:33   just to see the apocalypse happen again [TS]

00:12:35   and then because I've already gotten [TS]

00:12:37   that far i might as well stick around [TS]

00:12:38   for the next six hundred pages [TS]

00:12:40   yeah yeah I feel the same way actually [TS]

00:12:42   that that I I I definitely maybe we can [TS]

00:12:45   talk about this later I definitely enjoy [TS]

00:12:46   the first part more than the the rest of [TS]

00:12:49   it and maybe that is because i'm [TS]

00:12:50   enjoying the the the layout of the [TS]

00:12:54   actual apocalypse as it as it spreads & [TS]

00:12:57   M in the immediate aftermath as opposed [TS]

00:12:59   to sort of then the battle between good [TS]

00:13:02   and evil that comes afternoon what what [TS]

00:13:04   else one of my favorite parts of the [TS]

00:13:06   apocalypse scenario you guys are talking [TS]

00:13:08   about is one that I didn't get to read [TS]

00:13:09   until the complete version came out and [TS]

00:13:11   it's chapter 38 way to describe all the [TS]

00:13:13   ways that people died that are super flu [TS]

00:13:16   yeah that's a great one yeah like the [TS]

00:13:18   poor kids who died from neglect or the [TS]

00:13:20   girl who gets locked in the freezer with [TS]

00:13:22   her husband and her son or the woman who [TS]

00:13:25   blow yourself up with a gun the hair [TS]

00:13:26   an addict i love that chapter um I don't [TS]

00:13:29   know why I just drink it but but i think [TS]

00:13:33   i think because it points out that you [TS]

00:13:34   can have this you know again romantic [TS]

00:13:36   adolescent fantasy about Oh surely once [TS]

00:13:38   i survived its it's all you know she [TS]

00:13:40   cakes and victory and putting myself to [TS]

00:13:42   sleep by the Hope Diamond every night [TS]

00:13:44   and then someone points out that now as [TS]

00:13:47   a matter of fact the world becomes a lot [TS]

00:13:48   more dangerous and you are a lot more [TS]

00:13:50   loan it but I think why I keep rereading [TS]

00:13:53   is I always find someone new to latch [TS]

00:13:56   onto if that makes sense [TS]

00:13:58   um like the first reread I did where I [TS]

00:14:01   realized that when Stephen King was [TS]

00:14:02   writing Harold water he was essentially [TS]

00:14:04   putting a Navitar for a youthful write [TS]

00:14:07   his own youthful regularly ego in the [TS]

00:14:09   book was was kind of an eye-opener [TS]

00:14:11   without holy crap this is a guy who's [TS]

00:14:13   just look back on his working this is [TS]

00:14:15   the guy who's supplementing his own [TS]

00:14:17   self-loathing and his fears about his [TS]

00:14:20   writing in in to harold and it gave me a [TS]

00:14:24   lot more sympathy for that character for [TS]

00:14:25   example and again as i find as i get [TS]

00:14:28   older of different characters do or [TS]

00:14:30   don't resonate with me the way they [TS]

00:14:31   would have when i was a teenager [TS]

00:14:33   um that said Mike Russian jelyn my crush [TS]

00:14:35   on blood Bateman however has been going [TS]

00:14:37   strong for about 30 years [TS]

00:14:38   oh my god I can't explain it but there [TS]

00:14:40   it is oh I like that it's essentially [TS]

00:14:44   three or four different novels in a Rome [TS]

00:14:47   that you get people worrying about the [TS]

00:14:51   spread of the disease and then the [TS]

00:14:53   disease itself and I to love chapter 38 [TS]

00:14:56   because it shows that the author has put [TS]

00:14:58   actually putting thought into what are [TS]

00:15:01   the effects of all these things that I'm [TS]

00:15:04   doing to earth or at least America I [TS]

00:15:06   guess we don't really know what happens [TS]

00:15:07   to the rest of the planet probably not [TS]

00:15:10   great but there aren't that many books [TS]

00:15:12   that take huge tonal shifts where you [TS]

00:15:16   start off with an entire world and then [TS]

00:15:19   500 pages later you're reading notes [TS]

00:15:22   from us of a note from a subcommittee on [TS]

00:15:25   whether or not to take a census exactly [TS]

00:15:28   why this could this could have been you [TS]

00:15:31   know two books or three books I suppose [TS]

00:15:33   that would have been another way to tell [TS]

00:15:35   it in a different point in the [TS]

00:15:36   publishing industry and in Stephen [TS]

00:15:37   King's career trajectory maybe it [TS]

00:15:39   would've been [TS]

00:15:40   and I don't know he he could have [TS]

00:15:41   started it 500 pages in and just said [TS]

00:15:43   there was an apocalypse and everybody [TS]

00:15:46   but the people i want to talk about died [TS]

00:15:48   but he really takes his time making that [TS]

00:15:50   happen [TS]

00:15:51   I find it fascinating that friend is [TS]

00:15:53   such a naturally gifted writer and he [TS]

00:15:55   just you know it's not he's got some [TS]

00:15:58   weird veins of subtlety through the book [TS]

00:16:00   but I i have found it interesting that [TS]

00:16:02   the fran passages he points out what a [TS]

00:16:04   natural voice she has a natural impulse [TS]

00:16:06   compared to harold who desperately wants [TS]

00:16:08   to be a writer and lets his own stupid [TS]

00:16:10   nature getting away so i think it was [TS]

00:16:12   actually working out some some some [TS]

00:16:14   artistic crisis issues along the way [TS]

00:16:16   with his book to just talk about some [TS]

00:16:18   past podcast I like Apocalypse stories [TS]

00:16:20   as well and this and we also talked [TS]

00:16:22   about in the past there's lots of [TS]

00:16:23   different kinds of apocalypse and the [TS]

00:16:24   most appealing kind to me and one I had [TS]

00:16:26   never read up until this point was i [TS]

00:16:28   guess i think you had called the clean [TS]

00:16:30   apocalypse where things aren't destroyed [TS]

00:16:32   or blown up a radioactive this dead [TS]

00:16:34   bodies everywhere but they eventually [TS]

00:16:35   you know liquefied and dry up the [TS]

00:16:37   animals either you know like take care [TS]

00:16:39   of itself eventually but everything else [TS]

00:16:41   is still there and so it fulfill its [TS]

00:16:44   like it's you know living substance [TS]

00:16:45   missoni wherever you want to live the [TS]

00:16:47   thing that you want to do and all those [TS]

00:16:48   people you know this is booked for [TS]

00:16:50   introverts people get rid of all of the [TS]

00:16:51   people believe all their stomach that [TS]

00:16:53   stuff is pretty cool and so that was [TS]

00:16:55   exciting and they left their stuff and [TS]

00:16:57   and there weren't enough of them left to [TS]

00:16:59   eat all the candy food or anything so [TS]

00:17:01   things yeah pretty good shape given that [TS]

00:17:03   almost everybody is dead right and if [TS]

00:17:05   you read this book read the book as a [TS]

00:17:07   teenager he sounds like a lot of us did [TS]

00:17:09   there are many many characters for you [TS]

00:17:11   to identify with as an introverted [TS]

00:17:13   teenager in in this story and it [TS]

00:17:15   definitely changes of course as you age [TS]

00:17:17   and read the book and start relating [TS]

00:17:18   more for the adults in the story and [TS]

00:17:19   everything like that but so many [TS]

00:17:21   characters that you know I don't have [TS]

00:17:23   necessarily Harold is is stephen king or [TS]

00:17:25   some part of himself in there but like [TS]

00:17:27   it's interesting takes on these type of [TS]

00:17:30   things and we'll talk about the [TS]

00:17:31   characters later but like it's not you [TS]

00:17:33   think you know where everything is going [TS]

00:17:34   to go especially if you read a stephen [TS]

00:17:35   king book before because usually sinking [TS]

00:17:37   wants to have like one or two [TS]

00:17:38   Stephen King ish protagonists and you [TS]

00:17:41   kind of know that underneath it all [TS]

00:17:43   they're really good people and they're [TS]

00:17:44   going to face challenges in the floor [TS]

00:17:45   over this so many people in this book he [TS]

00:17:47   can do like the joss whedon thing like [TS]

00:17:49   actually that guy you like is gonna die [TS]

00:17:51   how do you like that one hour [TS]

00:17:52   or this is good this is not going to [TS]

00:17:54   turn out well you know I mean if Harold [TS]

00:17:57   was the only character and like if there [TS]

00:17:59   was a protagonist and Harold and like a [TS]

00:18:00   big baddie bad guy in a regular stephen [TS]

00:18:02   king book how would not have ended up [TS]

00:18:04   the way you did but there are so many [TS]

00:18:05   freakin characters in this book that he [TS]

00:18:07   can he can do everything he can surprise [TS]

00:18:09   you and I was riveted through the whole [TS]

00:18:10   story like it just affected me i don't [TS]

00:18:12   think i've ever read a book with that [TS]

00:18:13   many characters again except maybe lord [TS]

00:18:15   of the rings but Lord of the Rings does [TS]

00:18:17   not spend a lot of time [TS]

00:18:19   flushing out like you're like a mirror [TS]

00:18:20   or something you know it's not did not a [TS]

00:18:22   lot of times whereas stephen king is [TS]

00:18:23   like I know how to do characters I he [TS]

00:18:26   had clearly has an affection for all [TS]

00:18:28   these characters good and bad it's gonna [TS]

00:18:30   give each 150 pages in the end up in the [TS]

00:18:32   same page book [TS]

00:18:33   well he's got a tremendously generous [TS]

00:18:34   heart in the book too because I I feel [TS]

00:18:38   so bad for reward every time I read this [TS]

00:18:40   book I feel bad for Lloyd airport on [TS]

00:18:43   Lloyd well I feel for like the word that [TS]

00:18:45   one of I've never stop feeling sorry for [TS]

00:18:46   those Naomi because she just had no [TS]

00:18:48   chance at all you know i mean there's [TS]

00:18:50   that one moment on a hillside where she [TS]

00:18:52   could have chose differently and I i [TS]

00:18:55   I've often thought about how monstrously [TS]

00:18:58   unfair the the god of this book is with [TS]

00:19:01   the way you know he he lays punishments [TS]

00:19:03   on people for free choice for life and [TS]

00:19:05   naomi is just as horrible horrible [TS]

00:19:07   warning that that but yeah easy [TS]

00:19:10   I John you're right there's a hundred [TS]

00:19:12   fifty pages [TS]

00:19:14   although money wasn't you when you and I [TS]

00:19:15   were talking on twitter and you said [TS]

00:19:16   that you really could have done without [TS]

00:19:17   the part about the kid [TS]

00:19:18   um yeah I've got some problems with the [TS]

00:19:22   kid [TS]

00:19:22   yeah and I can also do without the kid [TS]

00:19:25   once that once we start talking about [TS]

00:19:26   the time that this book is set i will [TS]

00:19:30   have much more to say about what i think [TS]

00:19:32   is going on with the kid I realized that [TS]

00:19:34   we have had several episodes of the show [TS]

00:19:37   involving books about the apocalypse and [TS]

00:19:40   that is I think doing [TS]

00:19:42   yeah to a lot of influence of of John [TS]

00:19:45   and Lisa it was suggesting and and you [TS]

00:19:49   know a bottle of the apocalypse and [TS]

00:19:50   bringing means only gonna make it worth [TS]

00:19:53   it i turned on its nice it turns out I [TS]

00:19:54   like him too but but it is fascinating [TS]

00:19:58   about i always ask what what draws us to [TS]

00:20:00   it and and there's this idea [TS]

00:20:03   first off there there's just this [TS]

00:20:04   feeling about the fragility of society [TS]

00:20:05   and [TS]

00:20:05   how does the world and here it is a [TS]

00:20:07   fairly we watch it play out but really [TS]

00:20:12   it's it's a premise in action which is [TS]

00:20:14   what if almost everybody died and then [TS]

00:20:16   he's got a reason why everybody dies and [TS]

00:20:18   it's not [TS]

00:20:19   yeah and it's it's basically accidental [TS]

00:20:21   release of a biological warfare agent [TS]

00:20:23   that that kills everybody and and and [TS]

00:20:26   then they're swept aside and then what's [TS]

00:20:27   fascinating to me is that then it's all [TS]

00:20:29   about the what happens when you find [TS]

00:20:31   yourself alone and society has vanished [TS]

00:20:33   and what do you do and what how do you [TS]

00:20:36   survive and and that leads into that [TS]

00:20:38   second phase of the book which is kind [TS]

00:20:40   of fascinating which is this weird like [TS]

00:20:43   you know we hear that there's some lady [TS]

00:20:46   out out west that we're gonna go find [TS]

00:20:49   and it's strange [TS]

00:20:50   and-and-and has almost like a mythical [TS]

00:20:53   quality to it but it's also you know [TS]

00:20:55   it's also it says something to me about [TS]

00:20:57   like people are trying to find somewhere [TS]

00:20:59   to go and something do because they it's [TS]

00:21:01   you know it's over the the story that [TS]

00:21:03   they thought they were living in is over [TS]

00:21:05   and it turns out there in a very [TS]

00:21:06   different kind of story and that that is [TS]

00:21:08   fascinating to i think yeah I think that [TS]

00:21:11   that those are the most interesting [TS]

00:21:12   parts of the book to me and RR when the [TS]

00:21:14   world is ending and then immediately [TS]

00:21:15   after where everybody is uprooted and [TS]

00:21:17   has no idea what they're going to do to [TS]

00:21:19   survive and they're kind of like [TS]

00:21:20   glomming onto people they find and those [TS]

00:21:23   people are sometimes good and sometimes [TS]

00:21:24   not well I think when it gets to the you [TS]

00:21:27   know the end part where it's really sort [TS]

00:21:29   of the good versus evil and they're also [TS]

00:21:30   having town meetings and stuff i sort of [TS]

00:21:33   bifurcation myself a bit and I enjoy it [TS]

00:21:35   on two completely different tracks i [TS]

00:21:38   really like the the the town meeting [TS]

00:21:41   style stuff like how does society try to [TS]

00:21:43   rebuild its tough both on that you know [TS]

00:21:45   that the good side and a bad side but I [TS]

00:21:47   don't like mixing that with the good [TS]

00:21:49   versus evil thing I prefer my good [TS]

00:21:50   versus evil stories to be a little bit [TS]

00:21:53   more in your face with you know dragons [TS]

00:21:54   and stuff like that so I'm also enjoying [TS]

00:21:57   you like it to be more in your face and [TS]

00:21:58   Randall Flagg is a little too subtle for [TS]

00:22:00   you haha i guess i mean a fantastical [TS]

00:22:04   are probably better better term for that [TS]

00:22:06   so I'm still enjoying the good versus [TS]

00:22:08   evil thing but so so dragons are [TS]

00:22:11   slightly more fantastical in a giant [TS]

00:22:13   hand made of lightning coming out of the [TS]

00:22:15   out of the middle of nowhere he saves [TS]

00:22:17   after the big [TS]

00:22:17   finish though he didn't get the animals [TS]

00:22:19   a lot but you know it's more about the [TS]

00:22:22   setting i prefer it not to be in a [TS]

00:22:24   real-world typesetting yeah [TS]

00:22:26   time for a brief break to tell you about [TS]

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00:23:56   productivity out of the ipad there's a [TS]

00:23:58   google docs and sheets on iOS first look [TS]

00:24:01   that's out now [TS]

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00:24:04   think about it there's probably a great [TS]

00:24:06   lynda.com course on that subject and the [TS]

00:24:10   courses are all broken down into little [TS]

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00:24:59   ly nba.com slash and comfortable and [TS]

00:25:02   thanks so much to linda.com for [TS]

00:25:04   sponsoring being comfortable that I [TS]

00:25:06   haven't Vegas chapters problematic but [TS]

00:25:08   the reason I do is because there's I [TS]

00:25:10   don't think he ever fully flushes out [TS]

00:25:12   the parallel between the Las Vegas [TS]

00:25:15   society and the boulder society of the [TS]

00:25:17   no las vegas already has the lights on [TS]

00:25:20   and bolder they're all just kind of you [TS]

00:25:23   know that the implications that Boulder [TS]

00:25:24   the kind of disorganized because they're [TS]

00:25:26   all very nice whereas in Las Vegas [TS]

00:25:27   everybody kind of has this natural bent [TS]

00:25:29   towards toadying and so they're ok with [TS]

00:25:30   being bossed around and um he only goes [TS]

00:25:34   into this once or twice [TS]

00:25:36   oh gosh there's I have to find the [TS]

00:25:38   passage it's about um Danny who has the [TS]

00:25:41   rotating cast of mothers and there's [TS]

00:25:43   only a few passages here and talk about [TS]

00:25:45   how the people who end up in Vegas are [TS]

00:25:47   not necessarily all evil [TS]

00:25:49   they're just people who drifted one way [TS]

00:25:52   or another because of fear or because of [TS]

00:25:54   an inability to reflect on the contents [TS]

00:25:56   of their own characters and I really [TS]

00:25:58   wish that King would have done more of a [TS]

00:25:59   meditation on on how how how very little [TS]

00:26:02   difference there is between so-called [TS]

00:26:05   good and so-called evil but it just [TS]

00:26:06   comes down to a series of choices that [TS]

00:26:08   you do or don't consciously make all the [TS]

00:26:10   time but that stuff is that stuff isn't [TS]

00:26:12   as fun as following trashcan man around [TS]

00:26:14   the desert [TS]

00:26:15   oh he's another tragic figure yeah [TS]

00:26:17   already simple pension check [TS]

00:26:20   he was so much fair to the bad guys like [TS]

00:26:22   it it's not it is a little bit one-sided [TS]

00:26:24   because this way more good guys that are [TS]

00:26:25   fleshed out but we talk about Lloyd I [TS]

00:26:27   think and it's before the show and you [TS]

00:26:30   know this is not a lot of bad guy [TS]

00:26:31   characters but for the most part [TS]

00:26:32   everybody who's in Vegas who gets [TS]

00:26:35   flushed out a little bit has a reason [TS]

00:26:37   for being there has their own [TS]

00:26:38   motivations the only one who is [TS]

00:26:39   ridiculously velez flag and even he is [TS]

00:26:42   you know sort of evil but doesn't quite [TS]

00:26:45   understand why and is you know that [TS]

00:26:48   starts to fall apart towards the end he [TS]

00:26:50   starts off as elemental force but then [TS]

00:26:51   towards the end he is all let his more [TS]

00:26:54   shaky and it's clear that he's like well [TS]

00:26:55   he's kind of a man but he's also kind of [TS]

00:26:57   this force of nature but he's not behind [TS]

00:26:59   the force of nature and you know it all [TS]

00:27:01   comes to a head at the end I the good [TS]

00:27:04   versus evil thing I don't I think that [TS]

00:27:07   blends well with the apocalypse because [TS]

00:27:09   once you just have like a bunch of ppl [TS]

00:27:11   rattling around the united states like [TS]

00:27:13   it seems like you know that the world [TS]

00:27:14   shrinks so much like obviously if you do [TS]

00:27:16   the math is way more people than there [TS]

00:27:18   are in boulder or Las Vegas left in the [TS]

00:27:20   country but we just focus on the small [TS]

00:27:21   group and once you're just rattling [TS]

00:27:23   around in the country like that it's [TS]

00:27:24   very easy to slip back and sort of [TS]

00:27:26   primal is Aman tribalism and one of my [TS]

00:27:28   in my future and my later reads this [TS]

00:27:31   book one of the interpretations i [TS]

00:27:32   started to latch onto is that it is the [TS]

00:27:35   really real world and there's not really [TS]

00:27:37   any you know Stephen King style magical [TS]

00:27:40   supernatural stuff but as soon as you [TS]

00:27:42   strip everything away people immediately [TS]

00:27:44   fall back to their primitive you know [TS]

00:27:46   demon haunted world kind of you know [TS]

00:27:49   superstitions and this story of what [TS]

00:27:52   happened between this group in Las Vegas [TS]

00:27:53   and the Super Bowl tickets retold a few [TS]

00:27:55   times and eventually all the [TS]

00:27:56   superstitions become actual magic and [TS]

00:27:58   the stories about you know Randall Flagg [TS]

00:28:00   become real stories and like you can you [TS]

00:28:02   can look at this anymore talk about this [TS]

00:28:03   with toro we can connect this totals [TS]

00:28:05   about you can look at this and say this [TS]

00:28:08   this is an entirely you know this is how [TS]

00:28:10   the this story is viewed but [TS]

00:28:12   realistically what really happens like [TS]

00:28:14   crash came and just rolled up with it [TS]

00:28:15   together probably everybody out and it [TS]

00:28:17   wasn't hand of God said offers crazy guy [TS]

00:28:19   who thought he was going to be you know [TS]

00:28:20   like if they're all plausible logical [TS]

00:28:22   explanation for something that could [TS]

00:28:24   they could play out like this and you [TS]

00:28:25   can just become embellished in in the [TS]

00:28:27   retelling three or four times that's all [TS]

00:28:29   it takes right and why would that happen [TS]

00:28:31   why would this otherwise rational people [TS]

00:28:33   start believing in this magical story [TS]

00:28:35   two or three generations because that's [TS]

00:28:36   exactly how it happens all the time and [TS]

00:28:38   so not that I'm saying that's my [TS]

00:28:39   favorite interpretation of the book but [TS]

00:28:40   the more I read the more I say the more [TS]

00:28:42   i like looking at it as like everything [TS]

00:28:44   has an actual real explanation and the [TS]

00:28:46   good versus evil thing is it's kind of [TS]

00:28:47   like red conned into it like oh of [TS]

00:28:50   course there was a super evil guy we [TS]

00:28:51   were the super good people and you know [TS]

00:28:53   I mean [TS]

00:28:53   I think you have to dismiss arrange that [TS]

00:28:55   he said he explained that the last two [TS]

00:28:57   pages of the book which is that Randall [TS]

00:28:59   flagons have revived on the shore of [TS]

00:29:01   some African nation right well that's [TS]

00:29:03   the story of like what you can never [TS]

00:29:04   actually kill evil kids because you know [TS]

00:29:05   it always comes back right and I mean [TS]

00:29:07   I'm not saying like I i say that's what [TS]

00:29:09   obviously it's not the intent of the [TS]

00:29:10   author that's not the primary [TS]

00:29:12   interpretation of the book but sometimes [TS]

00:29:14   when I squint that especially the thing [TS]

00:29:16   with the bomb going off because that is [TS]

00:29:17   like the most overt I hey guys there's [TS]

00:29:19   magic and oh here's the hand of god and [TS]

00:29:21   it's like yeah maybe or maybe the thing [TS]

00:29:23   just went off accidentally because no [TS]

00:29:25   one is going to be alive to tell the [TS]

00:29:26   tale so who's you know to me and let me [TS]

00:29:28   get the you know the omniscient narrator [TS]

00:29:29   tells that this is what happened but if [TS]

00:29:32   you just see a big mushroom cloud in the [TS]

00:29:33   distance and you know Stu end up going [TS]

00:29:35   home and retails but you like the it [TS]

00:29:37   explains how legends come to be in that [TS]

00:29:39   almost everything had to happen this [TS]

00:29:40   book is real certainly the apocalypse is [TS]

00:29:42   because science-based or whatever and [TS]

00:29:44   then all the dreams they have a sort of [TS]

00:29:45   old testament god that's one of my [TS]

00:29:47   favorite things about this book like [TS]

00:29:48   mother Abigail's God is the Old [TS]

00:29:50   Testament God not that not the new [TS]

00:29:51   Desmond and so don't give me that old [TS]

00:29:54   time religion so this is a lot of that [TS]

00:29:56   sort of baked into the book like it's [TS]

00:29:57   not be kinder gentler got it anymore you [TS]

00:29:59   know it's the strange arbitrary weird [TS]

00:30:01   one and you can you can record it all [TS]

00:30:03   and they explained it away [TS]

00:30:05   well I mean talk to rephrase what you're [TS]

00:30:07   saying I think what you're saying is you [TS]

00:30:08   know that that's why this book has this [TS]

00:30:10   mythical kind of feel to it whether [TS]

00:30:12   whether even when it's not intended [TS]

00:30:13   that's how it that's how it feels that [TS]

00:30:15   yeah I guess that's literally what [TS]

00:30:17   happened this literally is like one of [TS]

00:30:18   those stories and if it wasn't what [TS]

00:30:20   happened this is how those you know this [TS]

00:30:21   is a struggle between good and evil as a [TS]

00:30:24   relatively skeptical person i would say [TS]

00:30:25   I one of the things that I like about [TS]

00:30:26   this book is the fact that it is not I [TS]

00:30:30   like that it's telling this this you [TS]

00:30:32   know almost mythological story about [TS]

00:30:33   good and evil and the forces lining up [TS]

00:30:36   against each other because quite [TS]

00:30:38   honestly one of the things that exhaust [TS]

00:30:39   me about so many apocalypse stories is [TS]

00:30:41   that it's just well what happens [TS]

00:30:44   afterward everybody kills each other and [TS]

00:30:45   each other until there's nobody left and [TS]

00:30:47   then we're all dead and that's the end [TS]

00:30:49   and here it's like no no there's another [TS]

00:30:51   story that happens which is this you [TS]

00:30:53   know ultimate battle between the forces [TS]

00:30:55   of good and evil and all the IT people [TS]

00:30:58   are going to go to Las Vegas where [TS]

00:30:59   they're going to get electricity running [TS]

00:31:01   and that's evil [TS]

00:31:02   I think what was what [TS]

00:31:04   that woman's got the speech where he [TS]

00:31:06   says because he lays it out nice as well [TS]

00:31:08   is going to get scientists engineers [TS]

00:31:10   military types of law enforcement [TS]

00:31:11   because they like structure there like [TS]

00:31:13   order and they're going to jump at the [TS]

00:31:14   opportunity to to follow somebody who [TS]

00:31:16   offers from a promise of that and [TS]

00:31:18   remember reading that again as a kid [TS]

00:31:20   going to that's harsh and a hard drive [TS]

00:31:22   for Tristan like yeah I can see that in [TS]

00:31:28   general like Stephen King for most of [TS]

00:31:30   his stories doesn't do the Marvel movie [TS]

00:31:34   thing where the world always has to be [TS]

00:31:35   in peril a lot of the stories especially [TS]

00:31:37   his early ones were small something [TS]

00:31:39   happening in a small town there's one [TS]

00:31:40   vampire in a small town there's a good [TS]

00:31:43   telekinetic and it's like the world's [TS]

00:31:44   always the same small town [TS]

00:31:46   well you know that they think they're [TS]

00:31:48   all very castle rock sometimes its dairy [TS]

00:31:50   but like it doesn't have the disease [TS]

00:31:52   where world you know fantasy novels have [TS]

00:31:54   this the worst the world is always in [TS]

00:31:55   peril bites the resurgence of some [TS]

00:31:57   ancient evil looks like it's always the [TS]

00:31:58   world it's never like just within some [TS]

00:32:00   villages one where often we do a whole [TS]

00:32:02   story about that and like who cares you [TS]

00:32:03   can wipe out the whole village no one [TS]

00:32:05   notices little town in Maine but I he [TS]

00:32:07   has to you know to sort of great works [TS]

00:32:10   of intertwined that our world in peril [TS]

00:32:12   things were you know that the dark tower [TS]

00:32:14   and the stand and those were his like [TS]

00:32:17   you can argue which one is like it you [TS]

00:32:19   know obviously the dark tower sort of [TS]

00:32:20   the cornerstone of his entire work and [TS]

00:32:22   wraps everything up but the stand is the [TS]

00:32:24   one big sort of pillar in you know i'm [TS]

00:32:27   going to i'm gonna kill everybody in the [TS]

00:32:29   world this is this is a world in peril [TS]

00:32:31   fight for the soul of humanity good [TS]

00:32:32   versus evil which he didn't indulge in [TS]

00:32:35   in his career up to that point i'm [TS]

00:32:37   trying to think of what did he did he go [TS]

00:32:39   back to that I think this is more or [TS]

00:32:41   less the only sort of realistic world in [TS]

00:32:44   peril thing and then there's the dark [TS]

00:32:46   tower which is world's plural in [TS]

00:32:47   parallel reality but it's either gonna [TS]

00:32:49   get expansion this idea right i mean [TS]

00:32:51   that the dark dad was kind of the [TS]

00:32:54   standard large and away [TS]

00:32:55   well but it's all it's all [TS]

00:32:56   interconnected I mean you've got like [TS]

00:32:58   one of my favorite things is like it if [TS]

00:33:00   you just if I was you recommend someone [TS]

00:33:01   read three things by Stephen King would [TS]

00:33:03   be like the entire dark salary series to [TS]

00:33:05   stand in the eyes of the dragon just to [TS]

00:33:06   see how you can take how you can take [TS]

00:33:09   three entirely different genres and and [TS]

00:33:12   styles of books and audiences and [TS]

00:33:14   connect them all into one big thing and [TS]

00:33:16   it's just it's just [TS]

00:33:17   fascinating fascinating trainwreck are [TS]

00:33:19   fascinating beautiful tapestry depending [TS]

00:33:21   on how you look at it actually the very [TS]

00:33:23   first time that i reread the stand was [TS]

00:33:26   after I'd started reading the dark tower [TS]

00:33:27   books and I was like oh yeah like you [TS]

00:33:29   meet somebody told me that he weaves [TS]

00:33:30   them in a little bit so it's like okay [TS]

00:33:32   I'm going to read all of his other stuff [TS]

00:33:33   that has little connections to shower [TS]

00:33:36   which all just about everything I said [TS]

00:33:38   so and so I did and and then actually [TS]

00:33:42   just before i read the stand this time i [TS]

00:33:44   had just finished reading wizard and [TS]

00:33:45   glass again which has the scene where [TS]

00:33:47   those characters are walking through [TS]

00:33:49   what seems to be Kansas during the time [TS]

00:33:52   of the post-apocalypse because you know [TS]

00:33:55   they see a newspaper that says captain [TS]

00:33:57   trips on it just like oh I just get that [TS]

00:33:59   little shiver every time I see that hard [TS]

00:34:01   again because of its it's that book but [TS]

00:34:03   then they also point out that the the [TS]

00:34:05   baseball team is what is it the Kansas [TS]

00:34:07   City Monarchs instead of the Kansas City [TS]

00:34:08   Royals so it's not actually our world we [TS]

00:34:10   could still be in for this always want [TS]

00:34:13   to be monarch swears that negro league [TS]

00:34:15   team [TS]

00:34:15   mhm true but in this in this in wizard [TS]

00:34:18   glasses the MLB major league baseball [TS]

00:34:21   and Lisa was mentioning Glenn Bateman [TS]

00:34:23   speeches before and I remember my first [TS]

00:34:25   couple of read-throughs of the books [TS]

00:34:26   that was my favorite part because it was [TS]

00:34:28   like a character in the blade like you [TS]

00:34:30   always wanted characters characters in [TS]

00:34:31   the book to discuss like the discuss [TS]

00:34:34   what's happening in the book this is not [TS]

00:34:35   sit down and talk about it a few times [TS]

00:34:37   they did that it's like yes glad it's [TS]

00:34:39   finally saying all the things that I'm [TS]

00:34:40   thinking what are the people going to [TS]

00:34:41   let's discuss it like instead of just [TS]

00:34:43   the characters being in dread and always [TS]

00:34:45   running from chases or whatever he would [TS]

00:34:46   sit down every once in a while inside [TS]

00:34:48   will help [TS]

00:34:48   let's think this is gonna turn out like [TS]

00:34:50   see that's exactly the only conversation [TS]

00:34:52   I would ever be having with people would [TS]

00:34:53   be like constant rehashing of Glenn's [TS]

00:34:55   conversations there there are some [TS]

00:34:59   characters i have more of a problem with [TS]

00:35:01   as i get older just because I think oh [TS]

00:35:02   you know you tried buddy but you didn't [TS]

00:35:04   quite nail it and I have rarely [TS]

00:35:07   connected to the women in this book the [TS]

00:35:09   same way i've connected to the male [TS]

00:35:11   characters and I have spent a lot of [TS]

00:35:13   useless time thinking about whether [TS]

00:35:15   that's because King bro this is a [TS]

00:35:17   comparatively young man and was still [TS]

00:35:19   developing the kind of imagination [TS]

00:35:21   empathy needed for whether it's because [TS]

00:35:23   the book was written during the nineteen [TS]

00:35:25   seventies and perhaps gender attitudes [TS]

00:35:28   for that dramatically different [TS]

00:35:29   or what the story is but there's an [TS]

00:35:32   awful lot of slapping of women's faces [TS]

00:35:34   that takes place in like the first [TS]

00:35:35   quarter of the book and I've always been [TS]

00:35:38   vaguely bought I've always been kind of [TS]

00:35:39   bothered by by two things by Miss [TS]

00:35:41   Abigail's you know elderlies mystical [TS]

00:35:44   black woman check because it feel it [TS]

00:35:46   does feel kind of sticky you know it's [TS]

00:35:48   it's the kind of thing that young white [TS]

00:35:49   men right when they're oh she's machine [TS]

00:35:51   applies she's with you she's so [TS]

00:35:53   profoundly other like oh she's a woman [TS]

00:35:55   and she's black and she's old she's [TS]

00:35:58   basically you know and she's a bad West [TS]

00:36:00   she's actually no yeah no she's [TS]

00:36:02   absolutely like she's every possible of [TS]

00:36:04   you can take off on the box and and [TS]

00:36:06   that's always bugged me that the way [TS]

00:36:08   that he's written her especially that [TS]

00:36:11   passage about how much you enjoy sex and [TS]

00:36:13   then I've always had a difficult time [TS]

00:36:15   connecting to [TS]

00:36:16   but like the the part of the book that I [TS]

00:36:18   feel the best toward friend is always [TS]

00:36:20   the part where she's burning her dad and [TS]

00:36:22   then after my life I've always kind of [TS]

00:36:25   had our friend with the hell are you [TS]

00:36:26   thinking is is going through my mind [TS]

00:36:27   through most of the rest of the book [TS]

00:36:29   most of the time and again I tried to [TS]

00:36:31   figure out if this is a cat's the result [TS]

00:36:33   of King writing this when he was very [TS]

00:36:34   young because he's got a roster of great [TS]

00:36:37   female characters for a lot of the rest [TS]

00:36:39   of his books or if this is an unwitting [TS]

00:36:41   reflection of the time period in which [TS]

00:36:43   King was writing this book or what but [TS]

00:36:44   there's there's something about you know [TS]

00:36:46   Lucy and Nadine and and and you know [TS]

00:36:50   yeah but the data Jergens the data [TS]

00:36:51   Jergens lesbian turn on and off thing is [TS]

00:36:53   a little problematic and and you know [TS]

00:36:55   this if you're writing this book now eat [TS]

00:36:59   I think he'd get dinged for it [TS]

00:37:00   yeah I I never actually noticed that [TS]

00:37:02   sort of stuff when I was younger [TS]

00:37:03   yeah I I kind of the first few times [TS]

00:37:05   throughout think I related to friend and [TS]

00:37:07   then now reading it I really don't in [TS]

00:37:10   part because I'm older than she is and [TS]

00:37:12   she acts a lot younger than she is i [TS]

00:37:14   think in many cases but I think also [TS]

00:37:16   just the fact that there aren't a lot of [TS]

00:37:18   women when when you are compared with [TS]

00:37:20   the number of well-developed male [TS]

00:37:21   characters and then the choices that [TS]

00:37:23   they're all kind of archetypal and you [TS]

00:37:26   do get a lot of that on male side but i [TS]

00:37:27   think there are enough guys that they're [TS]

00:37:29   not all that way so you've got mother [TS]

00:37:31   Abigail as the you know archetypal other [TS]

00:37:33   yo woman basically and then you know [TS]

00:37:36   you've got you've got Nadine sort of the [TS]

00:37:38   femme fatale and religion sacrifice [TS]

00:37:42   yeah that too and then you get the [TS]

00:37:44   girlfriend and the mother figure you [TS]

00:37:47   know friend turns into the mother figure [TS]

00:37:48   after being just like the wayward [TS]

00:37:50   wayward daughter figure and none of them [TS]

00:37:53   seem quite as real to me as any of the [TS]

00:37:56   the male characters throughout but I [TS]

00:37:58   thought that perhaps one of the reasons [TS]

00:38:00   for this is the archetypal thing this is [TS]

00:38:02   a story of good vs evil the characters [TS]

00:38:04   all sort of do have a little bit of that [TS]

00:38:07   in their DNA [TS]

00:38:08   I think that it fits so I I don't get [TS]

00:38:11   too worked up about it but I do tilt my [TS]

00:38:13   head a little bit i feel that kings [TS]

00:38:16   point of view can be shown by right at [TS]

00:38:18   the end of the book when even though [TS]

00:38:20   he's giving us dozens and dozens of [TS]

00:38:22   characters pretty much the four living [TS]

00:38:25   white middle-aged dudes go off to solve [TS]

00:38:27   the problem [TS]

00:38:28   yeah let's be fair most of them died [TS]

00:38:31   yeah 3 out of the 4 end up dead and the [TS]

00:38:34   photos I've seen by a mentally [TS]

00:38:35   challenged man they get to go be Christ [TS]

00:38:37   figures but there it's basically [TS]

00:38:40   everybody else stay at home [TS]

00:38:42   yeah i think it's clear that King [TS]

00:38:45   understands the male characters in the [TS]

00:38:48   book more than he understands the female [TS]

00:38:50   ones and it's easier this point his [TS]

00:38:51   writing career where that makes a [TS]

00:38:54   difference in his characterization will [TS]

00:38:55   give more time to the male characters [TS]

00:38:57   and their their internal monologues and [TS]

00:38:59   motivations and actions make more sense [TS]

00:39:02   from the various perspectives obviously [TS]

00:39:03   he clearly understands Herald and the [TS]

00:39:05   older man who sort of like what he wants [TS]

00:39:07   to be but the women they do fall into [TS]

00:39:09   all these roles and it got the roles [TS]

00:39:11   they fall into the role so I don't know [TS]

00:39:13   the rules of the Stephen King sees for [TS]

00:39:14   women or the women had the seventies but [TS]

00:39:16   so many of the women's opinions not just [TS]

00:39:18   in this book with a lot of his books had [TS]

00:39:20   to do with how they relate to the men in [TS]

00:39:22   the books which man are they going to [TS]

00:39:24   choose as their man which man will be [TS]

00:39:26   their protector which man fulfills that [TS]

00:39:28   like they're the women are looking [TS]

00:39:30   towards the men and the men are looking [TS]

00:39:32   towards the horizon and so they end up [TS]

00:39:35   either at the end up either thinly drawn [TS]

00:39:37   or just not given as much time to [TS]

00:39:41   develop you made like the the other [TS]

00:39:42   stereotypes that you know that the [TS]

00:39:44   toughbook lesbian one like he tries to [TS]

00:39:46   show them as at being complex and making [TS]

00:39:49   decisions that affect the rest of the [TS]

00:39:50   story and so on and so forth but it's [TS]

00:39:51   all kind of writ small like there's not [TS]

00:39:54   a lot of the women worrying about [TS]

00:39:56   how they're going to fix the problem of [TS]

00:39:57   the world like and the men you know some [TS]

00:40:00   of the major thing about some of them [TS]

00:40:01   are so that is just a weakness and i [TS]

00:40:03   think a young author and to be fair when [TS]

00:40:06   you have a book with this many [TS]

00:40:07   characters and it's hard to make all the [TS]

00:40:09   great and he just eventually you just at [TS]

00:40:12   it you know you just end up leaning on [TS]

00:40:13   the ones you can do better so he just [TS]

00:40:14   does the male characters better uh huh [TS]

00:40:16   you know he does as an author I think he [TS]

00:40:19   gets better with the women i think if [TS]

00:40:20   you reduce the character count he can [TS]

00:40:22   imbue the women with more interesting [TS]

00:40:24   things like always and like a book like [TS]

00:40:25   Gerald's game was like look I'm really [TS]

00:40:27   got to get this right it's just going to [TS]

00:40:28   be a woman she's going to be my thing [TS]

00:40:30   under the whole book my respected and [TS]

00:40:32   she becomes an entire person um he's an [TS]

00:40:35   older guy he does have his weird [TS]

00:40:36   prejudices but yeah that's in repeated [TS]

00:40:39   readings of this and i said this used to [TS]

00:40:41   be my favorite book i think lord of the [TS]

00:40:43   rings has passed it simply because now [TS]

00:40:44   as i read it and i get older i see sort [TS]

00:40:47   of all the things that you didn't see [TS]

00:40:48   when you're younger than the writing is [TS]

00:40:50   not as strong as kings later work in the [TS]

00:40:51   characterizations are not as Richard [TS]

00:40:53   sophisticated as they could be [TS]

00:40:54   I still love the story i I'm willing to [TS]

00:40:56   forgive a lot because of the puffiness [TS]

00:40:57   like it's kind of you know trashy pulpy [TS]

00:41:00   soap opera ish sci-fi apocalypse like [TS]

00:41:04   I'm willing to forgive a lot for that [TS]

00:41:06   fun but it you know it is it has [TS]

00:41:08   decreased in esteem and and in my mind [TS]

00:41:10   over the years [TS]

00:41:11   well the two the two people who kill [TS]

00:41:13   themselves over the course of the book [TS]

00:41:15   because they can't handle living without [TS]

00:41:17   a man or having a man take care of them [TS]

00:41:19   both are both women because you've got [TS]

00:41:20   Rita the socialite that killed herself [TS]

00:41:23   around Larry never wouldn't love to have [TS]

00:41:26   Larry honorary but you've also but [TS]

00:41:30   you've also got Perry who briefly [TS]

00:41:33   mentioned a few chapters who kills [TS]

00:41:36   herself after poor stew watches marks a [TS]

00:41:38   pen that you know appendectomy and by [TS]

00:41:41   the way that appendectomy seeing is [TS]

00:41:42   actually one of my favorites that got [TS]

00:41:43   added back into the expanded book [TS]

00:41:45   because it really points out how quickly [TS]

00:41:47   you can be laid low on eternal enemy the [TS]

00:41:49   podcast david brin actually has a nice [TS]

00:41:51   that's understood official then yes sir [TS]

00:41:55   have a nice [TS]

00:41:57   he has a base throwaway line actually [TS]

00:41:58   the postman of all things where a [TS]

00:42:00   character kind of loses his head when [TS]

00:42:02   somebody steals his tooth powder and his [TS]

00:42:04   loss because one of the things that's [TS]

00:42:06   been killing people and that [TS]

00:42:07   post-apocalyptic landscape is [TS]

00:42:09   that was a parent parent pairing [TS]

00:42:13   peritonitis yeah yeah and that's been [TS]

00:42:16   killing people and so this guy's [TS]

00:42:17   fanatical about his teeth regimen and I [TS]

00:42:20   had never really stopped to consider [TS]

00:42:21   that yeah you know if the bacteria get [TS]

00:42:23   into ulcerated gums it's done with and [TS]

00:42:26   so I love when stuff like okay once upon [TS]

00:42:28   a time I had this melody I could go into [TS]

00:42:30   the ER got it taken care of overnight [TS]

00:42:32   turns into oak rap i'm going to die in a [TS]

00:42:34   lot of abdomen abdominal pain to be fair [TS]

00:42:38   to Stephen King actually the his first [TS]

00:42:40   published novel was Carrie yeah but [TS]

00:42:44   don't make it sound like he never wrote [TS]

00:42:46   about with dentist so I'm just like he [TS]

00:42:48   has it he has a deeper intuitive [TS]

00:42:50   understanding of men [TS]

00:42:51   that's one of the books that passes the [TS]

00:42:52   Bechdel test and that it's not all women [TS]

00:42:54   talking to each other about about guys [TS]

00:42:56   because I yeah just pop up a lot sloped [TS]

00:43:00   we're talking to get to each other about [TS]

00:43:01   God [TS]

00:43:02   yeah so we're on were on characters now [TS]

00:43:04   I think this is this is our opportunity [TS]

00:43:05   before we get to that important talk [TS]

00:43:07   about the timeframe in the expanded [TS]

00:43:08   edition and all that [TS]

00:43:10   let's talk about the characters because [TS]

00:43:10   i think one of the things that we didn't [TS]

00:43:12   mention really except in passing when we [TS]

00:43:14   talk about the appeal of this book I [TS]

00:43:15   think it's got to be the characters this [TS]

00:43:17   is a huge cast and that there are some [TS]

00:43:20   really memorable people in this cast of [TS]

00:43:23   characters this is of this is a you know [TS]

00:43:25   that there isn't just about three or [TS]

00:43:28   four people who walk off to Las Vegas to [TS]

00:43:30   get killed it's it's this huge [TS]

00:43:33   widescreen set of characters so if you [TS]

00:43:35   guys have more characters you want to [TS]

00:43:37   talk about now is your chance we haven't [TS]

00:43:40   mentioned Nick's a mechanical great [TS]

00:43:44   yes I love him yeah yeah [TS]

00:43:47   ap I think he's that it's hard not to [TS]

00:43:49   Harold is kind of like the the [TS]

00:43:53   novelization version of the character [TS]

00:43:55   from one of my favorite jonathan coulton [TS]

00:43:57   songs the future soon where it's he's he [TS]

00:44:00   kinda more or less gets his wish and [TS]

00:44:03   that he survived the apocalypse everyone [TS]

00:44:04   else has gone all his tormenters he [TS]

00:44:07   finally has time to write you know in [TS]

00:44:09   his underpants whatever he's doing [TS]

00:44:10   swimming away their that the one girl he [TS]

00:44:11   liked in town is the is this left I he [TS]

00:44:14   is he may literally be the last man on [TS]

00:44:16   earth [TS]

00:44:17   and he has the chance to remake himself [TS]

00:44:19   and it doesn't start off well for him [TS]

00:44:24   but like it [TS]

00:44:25   he almost gets it's like okay well I can [TS]

00:44:27   be a new person the society i can be [TS]

00:44:28   different than I was [TS]

00:44:30   I'm useful i'm smart people look up to [TS]

00:44:32   me like the great you know turn turn [TS]

00:44:34   where Larry says that house becomes [TS]

00:44:36   legend larry's mind because they're [TS]

00:44:37   following all his signs and the [TS]

00:44:39   disconnect between like this kid that he [TS]

00:44:41   meets you so insecure and obnoxious and [TS]

00:44:43   everything and the guy who had the [TS]

00:44:44   smarts write those signs but he doesn't [TS]

00:44:46   turn it around in the end in the end he [TS]

00:44:48   is his own worst enemy in the end you [TS]

00:44:50   know the the Robot Wars cause his love [TS]

00:44:53   to you know have a bionic eyes and [TS]

00:44:55   realize that he is the person who caused [TS]

00:44:57   all this and it's it's kind of a tragedy [TS]

00:45:00   out but like I said it in a book with [TS]

00:45:03   fewer number of characters or in a more [TS]

00:45:05   conventional Stephen King novel he would [TS]

00:45:06   have turned it around but he doesn't [TS]

00:45:08   have to turn around this book he's [TS]

00:45:09   allowed to follow a course that seems [TS]

00:45:11   very realistic and likely in that he if [TS]

00:45:15   he ends up he ends up being his own [TS]

00:45:17   worse enemy and can't pull out of you [TS]

00:45:19   know I mean he makes it more than makes [TS]

00:45:20   a conscious choice we can't let go of [TS]

00:45:21   his hate and I like the type of story [TS]

00:45:24   because it's not the easy one where when [TS]

00:45:26   everybody's gone [TS]

00:45:28   you know you will be able to sleep in [TS]

00:45:30   the Smithsonian and you'll be great [TS]

00:45:32   person and you'll get the girl and [TS]

00:45:33   everything will be great it's like [TS]

00:45:34   wherever you go there you are you're not [TS]

00:45:36   going to be able to escape yourself [TS]

00:45:38   ah and despite your efforts to the [TS]

00:45:40   contrary and I that's why I really liked [TS]

00:45:42   his story lines its I mean it strikes me [TS]

00:45:45   is not being clichéd and I I feel for [TS]

00:45:48   him every time through like you hate him [TS]

00:45:50   and you want him to be punished so badly [TS]

00:45:52   but so many times like oh hell you were [TS]

00:45:54   so close you are so close [TS]

00:45:55   oh hi always feel so sorry for him I [TS]

00:45:57   think that's why he's one of the [TS]

00:45:59   characters that I definitely had to grow [TS]

00:46:00   into when i read it as a youngster I was [TS]

00:46:02   really sort of just seeing the [TS]

00:46:03   black-and-white two-dimensional part of [TS]

00:46:05   it and I was just angry at him all the [TS]

00:46:07   time and didn't care and now that i have [TS]

00:46:10   had grown up and actually had some life [TS]

00:46:12   experiences and and battled a little bit [TS]

00:46:14   with the good versus evil in myself I [TS]

00:46:16   can feel a lot more for his character [TS]

00:46:18   and I would like to think that I've [TS]

00:46:20   turned it around and done things okay [TS]

00:46:21   but i can understand his sort of inner [TS]

00:46:25   turmoil turn it to fight back and forth [TS]

00:46:27   so it's a much much deeper more [TS]

00:46:29   meaningful [TS]

00:46:30   character transformation linear [TS]

00:46:32   transformation for me now than it was [TS]

00:46:33   when i first read the book the first [TS]

00:46:35   couple times [TS]

00:46:36   well as a teenager was next to Harold [TS]

00:46:38   water in school and and so that was the [TS]

00:46:41   reason I didn't like it was because I [TS]

00:46:42   was already dealing with people like him [TS]

00:46:44   every day then but you know once you get [TS]

00:46:47   older and like Erica says you've had to [TS]

00:46:49   have a reckoning with the limits of your [TS]

00:46:50   own strengths and weaknesses and you [TS]

00:46:54   have to start and you start living with [TS]

00:46:56   the consequences of decisions you've [TS]

00:46:58   made [TS]

00:46:58   it's easier to go back and look at [TS]

00:47:00   harold and see the times when the deck [TS]

00:47:03   has been stacked against him and how [TS]

00:47:05   easy it was and for him to make some [TS]

00:47:08   decisions and how hard it was for him to [TS]

00:47:10   sit to stand by and not make others [TS]

00:47:12   there's that there's a the conversation [TS]

00:47:15   thats too has with the herald where they [TS]

00:47:18   did they try to settle things that were [TS]

00:47:19   friends for over Franny and instead of [TS]

00:47:21   course lies like a rug about his [TS]

00:47:22   interesting fran but there's that moment [TS]

00:47:24   where we're and King writes beautifully [TS]

00:47:27   words it's pretty obvious that Harold [TS]

00:47:29   just lets go of his his petulance [TS]

00:47:31   towards the old old world and recognizes [TS]

00:47:34   that he can be somebody you like and [TS]

00:47:35   stupid really you know carry each other [TS]

00:47:38   through this and and be good people [TS]

00:47:39   together and he doesn't do it and I read [TS]

00:47:41   that now i'm like 'oh Harold [TS]

00:47:43   Oh buddy the tragedy it really is and [TS]

00:47:47   and you think about the dumb things you [TS]

00:47:48   did as a teenager you're like oh I had I [TS]

00:47:50   i could have been I this person was [TS]

00:47:53   reaching out i was just too dominant [TS]

00:47:54   angry and youngest yet so and then two [TS]

00:47:57   kings credit he does not really well and [TS]

00:48:00   he's unsparing and that's actually the [TS]

00:48:01   reasons i think it is Harold its kind of [TS]

00:48:04   him [TS]

00:48:05   grappling with his own demons own [TS]

00:48:06   writerly alter ego [TS]

00:48:08   I think there's a lot of King and Harold [TS]

00:48:10   everybody i like i like that Harold is [TS]

00:48:12   is weak not really evil he's weak and [TS]

00:48:16   his weakness is exploited he fails to [TS]

00:48:19   make good decisions because he's weak [TS]

00:48:21   and and for reasons right but and then [TS]

00:48:25   he is exploited by flag essentially his [TS]

00:48:28   weakness and he he you know he doesn't [TS]

00:48:29   get a reward he ends up dead because he [TS]

00:48:33   flag doesn't really trust him either [TS]

00:48:35   right and and uh huh ok his because he's [TS]

00:48:38   too smart too much yeah he thinks too [TS]

00:48:40   much and he and and he's gonna be [TS]

00:48:41   trouble you've already good omens right [TS]

00:48:43   or [TS]

00:48:44   talking about how Crowley didn't really [TS]

00:48:45   fall from heaven so much as you just [TS]

00:48:46   kind of software down slowly [TS]

00:48:49   you know where it's not that were wasn't [TS]

00:48:52   a whole lot of intentionality was just a [TS]

00:48:53   series of small decisions that added up [TS]

00:48:55   and that's sort of like Jason weaknesses [TS]

00:48:57   Harold's Harold's condition as a result [TS]

00:48:59   of all these things cascading and i like [TS]

00:49:02   that his weaknesses sort of all [TS]

00:49:03   revolving around his ego he sees himself [TS]

00:49:05   is so much better than everybody around [TS]

00:49:07   him and that is something that I be as a [TS]

00:49:10   teenager now looking back I realize I [TS]

00:49:12   can relate to that I didn't recognize it [TS]

00:49:14   at the time but although it's such a [TS]

00:49:16   defense mechanism because his dad picked [TS]

00:49:18   on him and he felt awkward and out and [TS]

00:49:20   so we you know you see how because [TS]

00:49:23   there's that lovely chapter where he [TS]

00:49:24   kills himself and well that's a turn of [TS]

00:49:27   phrase [TS]

00:49:27   uh-huh there's that chapter 18 kills [TS]

00:49:29   himself and you basically get taken for [TS]

00:49:31   the autobiography of hair autobiography [TS]

00:49:33   of of the formation of harold and you [TS]

00:49:36   know from when he was a small boy who's [TS]

00:49:37   his dad is saying all these terrible [TS]

00:49:39   things about him and he's better-looking [TS]

00:49:41   in this pretty little sister shadow and [TS]

00:49:43   you can see where all of the hertz keep [TS]

00:49:44   piling on and he kind of has to create [TS]

00:49:46   these defenses to push people away [TS]

00:49:48   before they could hurt him again and [TS]

00:49:50   that's where he gets the superiority [TS]

00:49:51   complexes because it's safer and easier [TS]

00:49:53   to go on the offensive [TS]

00:49:55   that is why i love both his written [TS]

00:49:57   final declaration where he signs his [TS]

00:49:58   name hawk and the fact that it gets [TS]

00:50:01   dismissed later by RR for traveling [TS]

00:50:03   quite saviors who are like this [TS]

00:50:05   beautiful dying declaration and I just [TS]

00:50:06   completely like whatever Harold this is [TS]

00:50:08   ben and they keep ya like he doesn't [TS]

00:50:10   even have any written mine was like oh [TS]

00:50:12   he's conscripted the truth to print it's [TS]

00:50:15   all whatever is a little it's a little [TS]

00:50:17   bit late by that point just a little bit [TS]

00:50:19   if you want everybody up and fled town [TS]

00:50:21   and yeah that Lloyd has a similar [TS]

00:50:24   situation where he is a person Vic not a [TS]

00:50:27   victim of circumstance but like it is [TS]

00:50:29   weak and his weaknesses exploited like [TS]

00:50:32   because again there are things he's not [TS]

00:50:33   a good person right but yeah there are [TS]

00:50:36   things in him that are redeemable but [TS]

00:50:38   the flag basically waits for him to be [TS]

00:50:40   near death and like you know II and [TS]

00:50:42   ready to eat his cellmate [TS]

00:50:44   yeah he would have gone to Vegas anyway [TS]

00:50:45   but if you wait until he's almost dead [TS]

00:50:47   you can get him as a lot you know [TS]

00:50:49   completely loyal for life like that that [TS]

00:50:51   type of a mean witch Lloyd even [TS]

00:50:53   recognizes in the end I [TS]

00:50:54   actually recognizes he waited until I [TS]

00:50:56   was at my weakest and extracted undying [TS]

00:50:58   loyalty from me and I'm going to give [TS]

00:50:59   him that because I'm just you know like [TS]

00:51:01   miss it it's it's another sad situation [TS]

00:51:04   of a you know a similar person who was [TS]

00:51:08   and i'm using flags like well if there's [TS]

00:51:11   no Randall Flagg around you don't have [TS]

00:51:12   to worry because weak people won't be [TS]

00:51:13   exploited in this way I mean grandma [TS]

00:51:15   flags a stand-in for all the other [TS]

00:51:16   things that are going to exploit a [TS]

00:51:19   weakness or insecurity or internal [TS]

00:51:21   conflict in the world is just a [TS]

00:51:23   convenient narrative shorthand I'd like [TS]

00:51:26   to briefly mention one of my favorite [TS]

00:51:28   really short-lived characters which is [TS]

00:51:31   Starkey the general who kind of goes [TS]

00:51:34   crazy watching the videos everybody dead [TS]

00:51:37   he's really bucking space ooh that's so [TS]

00:51:41   much of what happens to the country is [TS]

00:51:43   his fault he's the one that says kill [TS]

00:51:46   anyone who says there's a super flu put [TS]

00:51:48   every city on lockdown but yeah I have [TS]

00:51:52   that poor journalist in west virginia [TS]

00:51:53   his last act is to try to put out a [TS]

00:51:55   broadsheet before he dies [TS]

00:51:56   yeah but I think Starkey is an [TS]

00:51:58   interesting Lee tragic character because [TS]

00:52:00   he's clearly gone crazy and in a book [TS]

00:52:03   the size King can take his time showing [TS]

00:52:05   him going crazy and then going down and [TS]

00:52:08   killing himself but fixing the face in [TS]

00:52:10   the soup first [TS]

00:52:11   yeah and then the next guy sits in his [TS]

00:52:13   chair why can't he have cleaned off the [TS]

00:52:15   face at least why don't know what he'll [TS]

00:52:17   be busy but it doesn't it sits down and [TS]

00:52:20   takes over right there [TS]

00:52:21   noted that i got dark humor of the book [TS]

00:52:24   is like you can you can't tell what it's [TS]

00:52:26   just always gonna be said that guy's [TS]

00:52:27   going to slowly go mad while watching [TS]

00:52:29   the same thing but it there's there's [TS]

00:52:31   humor and a lot of this the absurdity of [TS]

00:52:33   the apocalypse is I mean even chapter 38 [TS]

00:52:35   you can even think about some of those [TS]

00:52:36   passages are just like slapstick death [TS]

00:52:39   comedy of like what could possibly go [TS]

00:52:41   wrong with these people but you know it [TS]

00:52:44   thats that's throughout the entire book [TS]

00:52:46   like that he's not not afraid to the [TS]

00:52:48   characters aren't afraid and King isn't [TS]

00:52:50   afraid to dare you to laugh it the [TS]

00:52:52   terrible things that are happening but [TS]

00:52:54   I'm gonna mention the trashcan man i [TS]

00:52:57   love the fresh cat man [TS]

00:52:59   he is a pure character he knows what he [TS]

00:53:02   was happy because it doesn't to fire and [TS]

00:53:04   flat flag totally distracted him from [TS]

00:53:06   his mission such a poor baby he's [TS]

00:53:08   basically be this i mean no way to know [TS]

00:53:12   what love is somebody that I was a bully [TS]

00:53:14   the trashcan there and he's also flags [TS]

00:53:18   big weaknesses that he finds trashcan [TS]

00:53:20   man as endearing as I do but even even a [TS]

00:53:23   better [TS]

00:53:24   it's literally a bad idea to have this [TS]

00:53:26   guy running around inside your group he [TS]

00:53:29   doesn't seem to care that much about [TS]

00:53:31   shutting him down [TS]

00:53:32   well he is useful he does have skills [TS]

00:53:35   like he's the only flexpay problems he [TS]

00:53:37   mistakes crazy for stupid [TS]

00:53:39   well I mean like he wants to see what [TS]

00:53:40   the trashcan man's abilities trashcan [TS]

00:53:42   and supernatural ability to understand [TS]

00:53:43   machinery he needs that he needs them to [TS]

00:53:45   get like the fighter planes back up with [TS]

00:53:46   that base or whatever and he will enter [TS]

00:53:49   cells up the first tank [TS]

00:53:50   yeah i mean like what really like a site [TS]

00:53:54   he interrupted the trash can Trash man [TS]

00:53:56   could have finally had a comfortable [TS]

00:53:57   always going to do is going to burn [TS]

00:53:59   every city in the United States and he [TS]

00:54:00   would have done that for the rest of his [TS]

00:54:01   life like now I actually have to come to [TS]

00:54:03   Vegas and go to work and be like all [TS]

00:54:04   seriously do you realize how much stuff [TS]

00:54:05   I can burn in this country it's just you [TS]

00:54:08   know I got West is pretty dance I could [TS]

00:54:10   I could spend years here [TS]

00:54:12   yeah I mean eventually would blow [TS]

00:54:13   himself up that's the way he wanted to [TS]

00:54:15   cover like it [TS]

00:54:16   King even think as such it King even has [TS]

00:54:19   sympathy for like the craziest of his [TS]

00:54:22   character is so easy to make a crazy [TS]

00:54:23   pyromaniac but no he's got to give trash [TS]

00:54:25   game and a backstory why is he crazy [TS]

00:54:27   what happened to him and obviously as [TS]

00:54:29   mental illness but also people were [TS]

00:54:30   terrible to him too like everyone's [TS]

00:54:32   everyone's got their reasons everyone's [TS]

00:54:34   got their story even the people who are [TS]

00:54:35   just you know already and I even flag [TS]

00:54:38   has kind of you know that they tried not [TS]

00:54:40   to make him sympathetic but to explain [TS]

00:54:42   that he has feelings too he's not just [TS]

00:54:45   pure evil who knows exactly what he's [TS]

00:54:46   doing he has doubts he's not sure what's [TS]

00:54:48   going on [TS]

00:54:49   yes he is he's period knows what he's [TS]

00:54:51   doing and has doubts though I mean you [TS]

00:54:53   talk about his big memories and and [TS]

00:54:55   and how he incites the worst in what I [TS]

00:54:58   do like is housekeeping things like well [TS]

00:54:59   clearly from flag is responsible for the [TS]

00:55:01   fact the sixties turned into the [TS]

00:55:03   complete cluster flock of seventies [TS]

00:55:05   because it has to be even more human [TS]

00:55:07   nature but you know flight that the [TS]

00:55:09   point is flagged out there supposed to [TS]

00:55:11   be well he's wavering because the forces [TS]

00:55:12   of good and finally getting their act [TS]

00:55:13   together and hitting the road that [TS]

00:55:15   that's always been my take on it is that [TS]

00:55:17   that the ideas that evil strengthens [TS]

00:55:20   when nobody works in opposition but once [TS]

00:55:22   opposition is organized and starts [TS]

00:55:23   working then the nature of evil is [TS]

00:55:25   inherently challenged and that's kind of [TS]

00:55:26   a theme through a lot of Kings workwear [TS]

00:55:28   like once you get the band together and [TS]

00:55:29   everyone has sex before vanquishing a [TS]

00:55:31   clown or whatever whatever they have to [TS]

00:55:34   do in specific book like Amanda's [TS]

00:55:36   together at all [TS]

00:55:37   it all works going to read that but also [TS]

00:55:40   evil works even works through people [TS]

00:55:43   like it needs a vessel and so the vessel [TS]

00:55:45   the vessel of evil and lots of Stephen [TS]

00:55:47   King stories like you get the impression [TS]

00:55:49   that the force working through them [TS]

00:55:51   starts to lose faith in their vessel [TS]

00:55:52   like all this vessel sucks and then it's [TS]

00:55:54   nice to all fall apart when it's like I [TS]

00:55:56   thought you were a good vessel for my [TS]

00:55:58   evil intentions but now things are [TS]

00:55:59   falling apart and so that the evil [TS]

00:56:01   person will get abandoned by the [TS]

00:56:02   supernatural power or the powers we [TS]

00:56:04   started to waver and it's like you [TS]

00:56:05   always feel like it's the it's the black [TS]

00:56:07   cloud going alright well this isn't [TS]

00:56:09   working i'm out of here like he's going [TS]

00:56:10   to start over again on that island like [TS]

00:56:12   let's try this again but you know flag [TS]

00:56:15   is more than just a vessel that he's you [TS]

00:56:16   know sort of weave throughout the entire [TS]

00:56:18   thing is something more significant than [TS]

00:56:19   that and as opposed to just some random [TS]

00:56:20   guy who gets possessed by some evil [TS]

00:56:23   spirit or aliens or whatever but it's [TS]

00:56:25   the same type of thing where it nobody [TS]

00:56:28   gets to be beyond the their humanity [TS]

00:56:31   beyond like that that the things that [TS]

00:56:33   bother humans anger jealousy like it [TS]

00:56:35   like the Old Testament God who you know [TS]

00:56:37   it shows all the same attributes of [TS]

00:56:39   humans you know that what why would he [TS]

00:56:41   be jealous [TS]

00:56:41   why would be wrathful why wouldn't you [TS]

00:56:43   know it demand all these things wide why [TS]

00:56:45   does flag ever have doubts why does he [TS]

00:56:47   get frustrated wide why those things [TS]

00:56:49   happen well because he's also a person [TS]

00:56:51   kinda one of the things I like about [TS]

00:56:52   flag it's it's fun to have this [TS]

00:56:55   character who is just you know the [TS]

00:56:56   Walking duties [TS]

00:56:57   he's bad guy he's supernaturally [TS]

00:57:00   something rather and he and bad things [TS]

00:57:03   are gonna happen and and you get that [TS]

00:57:05   feeling of that epic quest kind of thing [TS]

00:57:07   is playing out a little [TS]

00:57:08   for the Rings like it away right this is [TS]

00:57:10   oh you know what's like going to do but [TS]

00:57:12   the thing i like is flag doesn't cause [TS]

00:57:14   the apocalypse right [TS]

00:57:16   really I want me how to dougie does [TS]

00:57:19   that's a whole shoddy workmanship on one [TS]

00:57:21   door [TS]

00:57:22   yeah that'sthat's it's really our fault [TS]

00:57:24   its humanities failing that causes its [TS]

00:57:26   own end flag is just there to take [TS]

00:57:28   advantage of what happens next right [TS]

00:57:30   which I'll i really like that that it's [TS]

00:57:32   like now is my now it's my it's my cue [TS]

00:57:35   right now it now i can get to work [TS]

00:57:38   he's just wandering around aimlessly on [TS]

00:57:39   the road they suddenly goes oh [TS]

00:57:40   something's going on now yeah he's [TS]

00:57:43   opportunistic as a virus that's a nice [TS]

00:57:44   metaphor yeah haha [TS]

00:57:46   one thing i like about the way flag is [TS]

00:57:48   introduced is i have read none of the [TS]

00:57:50   dark tower books at all but just the few [TS]

00:57:53   sentences are saying some people call [TS]

00:57:55   them the walking dude or all hard case [TS]

00:57:58   like yeah immediately feels like this is [TS]

00:58:00   a legendary character you should have [TS]

00:58:02   heard of already yeah oh yeah we talked [TS]

00:58:05   about the timeframe a little bit i've [TS]

00:58:06   got a in my little book [TS]

00:58:07   bookmark that i got from Doubleday when [TS]

00:58:09   i bought the book it says the setting of [TS]

00:58:11   the book has been changed from 1982 [TS]

00:58:14   1990s it's stephen king is the same age [TS]

00:58:17   40 Madonna line there with Lloyd [TS]

00:58:19   strangling somebody and that's how they [TS]

00:58:21   update it and they also and they also on [TS]

00:58:23   head off the AIDS comparison because if [TS]

00:58:25   you remember the whole point 22 well [TS]

00:58:27   it's the super footwear shot that [TS]

00:58:28   shifting antigen your body just can't [TS]

00:58:30   keep up and then what do you know [TS]

00:58:33   grid turns into HIV which basically does [TS]

00:58:35   the same thing to your immune system and [TS]

00:58:37   so they had to find a way to explain why [TS]

00:58:38   this wasn't aids and those and those are [TS]

00:58:41   the two big changes they've made out [TS]

00:58:43   that they put another couple pulp [TS]

00:58:45   another couple pop culture references [TS]

00:58:47   and I know there's 12 teenage mutant [TS]

00:58:49   ninja turtles enjoy kids haha like an ID [TS]

00:58:53   y SE I had no idea i had no idea that [TS]

00:58:56   the original was set in a different time [TS]

00:58:58   because i didn't get a fancy book [TS]

00:58:59   markets joining our differences so I [TS]

00:59:02   didn't know that until you guys were [TS]

00:59:03   mentioning it in like the emails for the [TS]

00:59:05   prep for this podcast i was it kind of [TS]

00:59:07   blew my mind a little bit so this is [TS]

00:59:08   fascinating i'm not sure quite why I I [TS]

00:59:11   mean I guess their marketing it and I [TS]

00:59:13   said well how much updated so it's more [TS]

00:59:16   of current with today is that that's my [TS]

00:59:18   publishing industry executive voice by [TS]

00:59:20   the way or justify so what [TS]

00:59:22   by pointing out but but it has problems [TS]

00:59:24   because they're there are some having [TS]

00:59:26   not read the original I can't really do [TS]

00:59:28   a direct comparison but it feels to me [TS]

00:59:30   like there are lots of places where you [TS]

00:59:33   know we've taken things that are tropes [TS]

00:59:35   of characters from the seventies and now [TS]

00:59:38   we just say it's the nineties or 90 and [TS]

00:59:41   it doesn't actually track with how how [TS]

00:59:44   the I I you know net now looking back [TS]

00:59:46   from all this time later i feei feel [TS]

00:59:48   like it would feel better if it was set [TS]

00:59:49   in 1980 because it would just be further [TS]

00:59:51   back in that era [TS]

00:59:52   yeah specifically Larry Underwood [TS]

00:59:55   backstory yes Larry under what is your [TS]

00:59:57   full of people saying save the [TS]

00:59:57   full of people saying save the [TS]

01:00:00   n-word bebop for the cleaning crew and [TS]

01:00:03   railway what he's talking about [TS]

01:00:06   we don't like that rock and roll music [TS]

01:00:08   it was a very old record I yeah really i [TS]

01:00:14   think the problem is for me the [TS]

01:00:16   characters don't talk like they're in [TS]

01:00:18   1990 they talk like they're Stephen King [TS]

01:00:20   a lot of the time sure that happens a [TS]

01:00:22   lot [TS]

01:00:23   one specific example i wrote down for [TS]

01:00:26   early in France description of herself [TS]

01:00:28   good figure long legs that got [TS]

01:00:31   appreciative glasses prime stuff was the [TS]

01:00:34   correct frat house term looking looking [TS]

01:00:36   here comes knocking yeah yeah [TS]

01:00:38   looking looking looking here comes miss [TS]

01:00:40   college girl 1990s you ready yeah I was [TS]

01:00:43   empowered and Maxine I do i do college [TS]

01:00:46   dunno y apartment [TS]

01:00:48   no no no so that's a problem with [TS]

01:00:51   stephen king's writing is that Steve [TS]

01:00:53   stephen king came of age in the sixties [TS]

01:00:55   and seventies and so eternally like as [TS]

01:00:58   we were all eternally in whatever age we [TS]

01:01:00   were adolescence he cannot get out of [TS]

01:01:02   that and when he tries to move forward [TS]

01:01:04   like like when he like you know it in [TS]

01:01:07   hit he's got the kid on the skateboard [TS]

01:01:09   and everything it's clear that he [TS]

01:01:11   doesn't understand what skateboards are [TS]

01:01:12   like it's a party of the big notion of [TS]

01:01:14   it someone told him about skateboarding [TS]

01:01:16   once it's like those qualities to write [TS]

01:01:18   in the fifties you can't be safe on a [TS]

01:01:20   skateboard mr. another in standing on a [TS]

01:01:22   little wooden planks fixed wheels and [TS]

01:01:25   it's endearing because he writes you [TS]

01:01:27   know like it and I don't want him to be [TS]

01:01:29   like all I need to immerse myself in [TS]

01:01:31   modern culture and so maybe it's better [TS]

01:01:32   that he sets his book in places we [TS]

01:01:34   either place where it doesn't matter [TS]

01:01:35   like the dark tower where you make up [TS]

01:01:36   everything and everything's a mishmash [TS]

01:01:37   of everything anyway or do it in an area [TS]

01:01:40   that you're familiar with or with people [TS]

01:01:41   are that are the age you're familiar [TS]

01:01:43   with so like he probably should not [TS]

01:01:45   write young adults at this point in his [TS]

01:01:46   career but he could write a 50-year old [TS]

01:01:47   man pretty darn well I imagine why it's [TS]

01:01:50   like you get back two characters i like [TS]

01:01:52   the idea of Larry Underwood a lot [TS]

01:01:54   because i like it because the notion of [TS]

01:01:56   some be /c lister surviving the [TS]

01:01:59   apocalypse and having to to deal with [TS]

01:02:06   with their brought fall from grace like [TS]

01:02:07   that's a really interesting story i [TS]

01:02:09   would read an update we're like one of [TS]

01:02:11   the minor Kardashians was left over [TS]

01:02:13   and-and-and trying to make their way out [TS]

01:02:15   of Los Angeles or whatever and imagine [TS]

01:02:18   the postman it does not to mention tom [TS]

01:02:20   petty as the mayor of the village with [TS]

01:02:22   work castle don't know you from [TS]

01:02:23   somewhere and topped it off that was [TS]

01:02:25   another life in the sink goes from there [TS]

01:02:28   was hilarious i have to see if we can [TS]

01:02:31   find anything but lay right at Larry [TS]

01:02:32   underwear i mean i do the end this ghost [TS]

01:02:34   of this goes to the time this goes to [TS]

01:02:36   the timeframe to his I picture him as [TS]

01:02:37   being one of those kind of you know [TS]

01:02:39   Harry curly haired singer songwriter [TS]

01:02:43   guys from the lates late seventies and [TS]

01:02:45   usually york city of the seventies like [TS]

01:02:47   when he is when he's in his like that i [TS]

01:02:49   picture in my head I didn't realize this [TS]

01:02:51   until we started talking about the time [TS]

01:02:52   period i also didn't know the time [TS]

01:02:54   period had been recycled i guess in a [TS]

01:02:55   way that bookmark but like at Larry [TS]

01:02:57   scenes i read them as if he's using a [TS]

01:02:59   movie in the seventies in New York like [TS]

01:03:01   this graffiti everywhere in it [TS]

01:03:02   everything to this tall redhead cliché [TS]

01:03:05   who make some eggs he's picking up women [TS]

01:03:07   who think he's you ain't no nice guy and [TS]

01:03:09   and like you just now he's got here he [TS]

01:03:11   spends a lot of time on this is not a [TS]

01:03:13   guy who was on the just shirt is open [TS]

01:03:15   pretty darn low or and he was with the [TS]

01:03:17   eagles in California no question like [TS]

01:03:19   that love the idea that you have [TS]

01:03:21   somebody who was like yeah i was on a [TS]

01:03:23   trajectory to become you know the the [TS]

01:03:26   featured performer on American Bandstand [TS]

01:03:28   before Dick Clark and the rest of the [TS]

01:03:30   planet died from you know cannot do dick [TS]

01:03:33   clark's out there somewhere i'm telling [TS]

01:03:34   you i late huh yeah maybe he has dark [TS]

01:03:37   colors maybe yes the dark man I'm by the [TS]

01:03:40   talking dude if that time everyone do [TS]

01:03:45   everything you want what do you want to [TS]

01:03:47   bet the tell ryan seacrest gets all his [TS]

01:03:48   jobs that my grandma flag will dick [TS]

01:03:51   clark passed on the secret crazy to [TS]

01:03:53   happen but like Larry is it as a dude in [TS]

01:03:56   practice i just i have a hard time with [TS]

01:03:59   him because I'm I'm like oh my god Larry [TS]

01:04:01   just yeah yeah he's a character that I [TS]

01:04:03   also i also kind of grew into a little [TS]

01:04:06   bit i really really just got bored with [TS]

01:04:08   historian with skim all of his parts now [TS]

01:04:11   IM to the point where i can i can kind [TS]

01:04:13   of understand the the the growth that [TS]

01:04:16   he's going through and what he's [TS]

01:04:17   struggling with but it's still just he [TS]

01:04:20   still just seems internally whiny to me [TS]

01:04:22   yeah he's like an Apatow bein man baby i [TS]

01:04:24   could have had [TS]

01:04:25   I was just like a virgin oh yeah he's [TS]

01:04:28   externally wanted to but I don't you [TS]

01:04:30   feel for him like when he takes on the [TS]

01:04:32   sort of the broken woman reading which [TS]

01:04:33   is a cliche or whatever like that he he [TS]

01:04:35   does feels like so before i was going to [TS]

01:04:38   be singer but now i'm responsible for [TS]

01:04:39   this crazy persons life and I'm gonna [TS]

01:04:41   feel bad when she dies like it's a [TS]

01:04:43   failure of myself and like that's why he [TS]

01:04:45   keeps replaying that the girl telling [TS]

01:04:46   him he's not a nice guy it's like I [TS]

01:04:48   don't have fame [TS]

01:04:49   I don't my town is meaningless not i [TS]

01:04:52   have to be like a person and I'm not and [TS]

01:04:55   he's internally whiny and is externally [TS]

01:04:57   one-e-and like they try to turn him [TS]

01:04:59   around but they never let him get he [TS]

01:05:01   never become stupid read me over like [TS]

01:05:02   well let's hear Larry to face it like [TS]

01:05:05   he's like oh come on like the socks in [TS]

01:05:08   that don't understand i'm doing people [TS]

01:05:10   don't like me and I don't know how to [TS]

01:05:11   deal with myself and my mom is dead even [TS]

01:05:14   though she complained a lot like he's he [TS]

01:05:16   is sympathetic from a certain [TS]

01:05:17   perspective but i like the fact that [TS]

01:05:18   they never bring him all the way around [TS]

01:05:20   like Larry always kind of stays Larry [TS]

01:05:22   and he's maybe the most realistic [TS]

01:05:25   yeah i just want to take Lucy out for [TS]

01:05:27   coffee on Lucy girl you could do better [TS]

01:05:29   come on I realized that most the planet [TS]

01:05:31   has died but there are still dateable [TS]

01:05:32   dudes were not named Larry and he's hung [TS]

01:05:35   up on his ex-girlfriend and she's hung [TS]

01:05:36   up on a Ouija board and you are well [TS]

01:05:38   away from that mess now don't want to [TS]

01:05:40   knock you up because being a single [TS]

01:05:41   mother in the after in the after scape [TS]

01:05:43   is no fun all the users guide like you [TS]

01:05:46   just need to have that talk with Lucy [TS]

01:05:47   and and poor woman you know that poor [TS]

01:05:50   woman [TS]

01:05:51   we haven't talked about Tom Cullen yet [TS]

01:05:53   and i can't get the most interesting [TS]

01:05:55   thing about Tom Cohen that I like about [TS]

01:05:56   this is that they sent him to be a spy [TS]

01:05:58   because that is exactly the kind of like [TS]

01:06:01   yeah we're the good guys but I like it's [TS]

01:06:05   a terrible thing to do in the end like [TS]

01:06:06   by the time they do it in the book you [TS]

01:06:08   can either be like I'm in the mindset of [TS]

01:06:10   I guess we have to do this because Randy [TS]

01:06:11   flags really bag and listen like wait a [TS]

01:06:13   second what do you what do you think [TS]

01:06:14   you're gonna do now you could this poor [TS]

01:06:16   guys like well we like when everything [TS]

01:06:18   but he's really just upon our chess [TS]

01:06:19   board and we here at the Town Council [TS]

01:06:20   meeting or whatever it is will have to [TS]

01:06:22   forget and I mean judge going it's like [TS]

01:06:26   well he wants to sacrifice himself or [TS]

01:06:27   whatever but sending Tom colleges solo's [TS]

01:06:29   life so like it's so have like yeah it's [TS]

01:06:33   so like it he's much older than we think [TS]

01:06:35   is you know thanks [TS]

01:06:36   it's so brutal and terrible and like the [TS]

01:06:39   fact that all these good people kind of [TS]

01:06:40   agreed to it and and do it like it shows [TS]

01:06:43   you that like the rules have to be [TS]

01:06:45   different shows you the power of cults [TS]

01:06:47   actually because it's the Colton mother [TS]

01:06:49   Abigail like old people had desperately [TS]

01:06:51   coalesced around her and she had been [TS]

01:06:53   the friendly figured that save them for [TS]

01:06:54   the dreams of of Randall Flagg and I [TS]

01:06:57   think I do think he stops a little bit [TS]

01:07:00   Stephen King stops a little bit short of [TS]

01:07:02   a really poking that home because he [TS]

01:07:04   softens it a little bit with the fact [TS]

01:07:06   that tom sort of when he's under [TS]

01:07:08   hypnosis has this sort of extra sensory [TS]

01:07:11   power and is able to see things for [TS]

01:07:13   channel smarter there yeah exactly so [TS]

01:07:16   it's not quite it's not quite sending a [TS]

01:07:19   mentally challenged man into the fray [TS]

01:07:21   it's a mentally challenged man with some [TS]

01:07:24   extra stuff going on so maybe with a [TS]

01:07:26   view it like as a strategic advantage [TS]

01:07:28   it's like a hobby remember just like [TS]

01:07:30   since there's a sleeper agent right here [TS]

01:07:32   they don't know that it carries moms [TS]

01:07:34   like oh no will no more respect they [TS]

01:07:36   sent the no one will ever suspect this [TS]

01:07:37   old man judge Farris goes that doesn't [TS]

01:07:38   work out well for him but like you know [TS]

01:07:40   like that they're playing with other [TS]

01:07:42   people's lives like it all it takes is a [TS]

01:07:44   group of like you've got this how many [TS]

01:07:45   people are in boulder like not a couple [TS]

01:07:47   hundred thousand or whatever and then [TS]

01:07:49   like this tiny little council is [TS]

01:07:50   deciding the lives of these people like [TS]

01:07:52   all right you and your alignment and if [TS]

01:07:54   they're willing to do it then I guess [TS]

01:07:55   but like Tom Cullen is not and that's in [TS]

01:07:58   the sort of magical retelling if you [TS]

01:08:00   think what was it really like they just [TS]

01:08:01   basically made this guy go and they [TS]

01:08:03   convince themselves that they hypnotized [TS]

01:08:04   him to the point where he can't be able [TS]

01:08:05   to pull them right well that's pretty [TS]

01:08:07   sure he could talk normally when we [TS]

01:08:09   hypnotize him right he was smarter than [TS]

01:08:10   you think [TS]

01:08:11   yeah yeah yeah that happens he may be [TS]

01:08:14   talked about the phases of the Moon and [TS]

01:08:15   how beautiful they were it was beautiful [TS]

01:08:17   it was like poetry [TS]

01:08:18   yeah but like you know anything that's a [TS]

01:08:20   trip to like he did Stephen King loves [TS]

01:08:23   the the mentally deficient media [TS]

01:08:26   management cool the magical kind of like [TS]

01:08:28   they're always you know normally [TS]

01:08:31   beautiful but but most of the time he is [TS]

01:08:33   like I think he respects Tom Collins a [TS]

01:08:36   character but i think when they send him [TS]

01:08:38   it shows that the the values that they [TS]

01:08:40   all held there have to be adjusted if [TS]

01:08:42   they're going to survive in this pocket [TS]

01:08:44   post-apocalyptic world and by that point [TS]

01:08:45   there already [TS]

01:08:46   well it's a totally Old Testament move [TS]

01:08:48   you know I mean this is the same old [TS]

01:08:49   testament where God ask people to [TS]

01:08:51   sacrifice their children and so how is [TS]

01:08:53   sacrificing an adult without a whole lot [TS]

01:08:54   of free will or agency that much [TS]

01:08:55   different you know I mean that's kind of [TS]

01:08:57   the message of this whole book is that [TS]

01:08:58   stuff is just gotten all Old Testament [TS]

01:09:00   on us [TS]

01:09:01   yeah yeah yeah although King doesn't [TS]

01:09:03   have the heart to kill him in the end [TS]

01:09:04   and I'll having him come back and be [TS]

01:09:06   that the savior for everything I mean it [TS]

01:09:08   is heartwarming made like he spends the [TS]

01:09:09   whole book with the mo own thing in MO [TS]

01:09:11   and you get the big payoff at the end [TS]

01:09:13   yeah I don't have any leaves and I mean [TS]

01:09:16   it works everything I said this is kind [TS]

01:09:17   of like puppy and trashy but it's like [TS]

01:09:20   the Nick Andres becomes his Ghost spirit [TS]

01:09:21   guide I I think that's gonna sweet [TS]

01:09:23   that's a testament to the power [TS]

01:09:24   friendship and all that [TS]

01:09:25   yeah and you could talk and when in his [TS]

01:09:27   visions that like it's what you get [TS]

01:09:29   I guess it's necessary but I think it's [TS]

01:09:31   kind of BS because one of because Nick's [TS]

01:09:33   deafness was was absolutely integral 22 [TS]

01:09:36   who he was as a person to you know he [TS]

01:09:38   had that profound sense of isolation and [TS]

01:09:41   that profound observer effect now that's [TS]

01:09:43   what made him so compelling is this is [TS]

01:09:45   the guy who very consciously chose [TS]

01:09:46   almost everything that he was or who [TS]

01:09:48   chose to be and he's one of the most [TS]

01:09:50   deliberate deliberate and self-made [TS]

01:09:52   people in the book [TS]

01:09:53   yeah but Tom wishes he could speak and I [TS]

01:09:55   think the vision is sometimes [TS]

01:09:57   perspective on how you know like it its [TS]

01:09:59   it's nice like it [TS]

01:10:01   stephen king is good at rewarding you [TS]

01:10:03   like that's why he's a million selling [TS]

01:10:05   author he's going to give people what [TS]

01:10:06   they wanted he can do you can do the [TS]

01:10:07   highs and the lows and happy and sad and [TS]

01:10:10   like a lot of it in this book is not so [TS]

01:10:12   much fan services like ah right you do [TS]

01:10:14   that thing so well we'll take it and [TS]

01:10:16   it's it it's nice it's a lot like it [TS]

01:10:18   it's a reason he's compared to Dickon so [TS]

01:10:20   much right because he is very you know [TS]

01:10:22   Dickens is directed by the word to that [TS]

01:10:27   pretty Dickens had that had some of the [TS]

01:10:29   best names in the business you know I [TS]

01:10:31   mean he was just a very apt neighbor and [TS]

01:10:33   i think that's that Stephen King does a [TS]

01:10:35   good job of the names too but that's [TS]

01:10:38   neither here nor there and share my [TS]

01:10:40   theory on the kid at this point [TS]

01:10:41   yeah we i'm at the point where I'm off [TS]

01:10:43   I'm off the grid and and I'm i'm asking [TS]

01:10:47   for anything you guys want to talk about [TS]

01:10:48   that that we haven't talked about before [TS]

01:10:50   we go so go for it Monty alright [TS]

01:10:52   the kid is what Stephen King thinks is [TS]

01:10:55   cool he drives a car from 1932 has a [TS]

01:10:58   leather jacket and then pointed shoes [TS]

01:11:01   pointy toed shoes he's got the swept [TS]

01:11:04   hair and he actually refers to him at [TS]

01:11:07   one point as a miniature street punk [TS]

01:11:09   from Hell which is not the best phrase [TS]

01:11:12   Stephen King ever wrote [TS]

01:11:13   yeah and my argument is that the kid [TS]

01:11:15   would work if this was set during [TS]

01:11:18   stephen king's childhood but you don't [TS]

01:11:22   want your business [TS]

01:11:23   yes but in 1990 it's just weird [TS]

01:11:28   he is played to be ridiculous though [TS]

01:11:29   like he he's mocked by C hit this [TS]

01:11:32   character is marked by the author in his [TS]

01:11:34   characterization so what he does I don't [TS]

01:11:36   think I mean pretty cool death because [TS]

01:11:38   they find him with his hands around the [TS]

01:11:40   neck of a wolf [TS]

01:11:41   yeah he's marked by the author but the [TS]

01:11:42   author clearly thinks he's the coolest [TS]

01:11:45   this guy in the club was saying but he [TS]

01:11:47   can't stand up [TS]

01:11:48   I think he's a caricature of the people [TS]

01:11:50   Stephen King Saul and his youth who [TS]

01:11:51   thought they were cool and Stephen King [TS]

01:11:53   thought they were not as cool as they [TS]

01:11:54   actually thought they were and actually [TS]

01:11:56   might get eaten by wolves [TS]

01:11:57   I think the holiday with the gun kind of [TS]

01:11:59   tilted towards John's direction i think [TS]

01:12:01   it I think it still would have worked [TS]

01:12:03   had been a little bit earlier because it [TS]

01:12:06   in the nineties that kind of character [TS]

01:12:07   is so far removed that it's not even [TS]

01:12:10   like this was recently cool it's like oh [TS]

01:12:12   is this a thing you know it's just so [TS]

01:12:15   finally left though he could just be [TS]

01:12:17   crazy because like when we see him look [TS]

01:12:18   like he's into ease into whatever brand [TS]

01:12:20   of beer he's into and he's just like [TS]

01:12:21   dressed up like a crazy person it's like [TS]

01:12:23   you don't know it isn't it almost people [TS]

01:12:25   are dead [TS]

01:12:26   he might have you might have gone crazy [TS]

01:12:28   are you guys familiar with the key and [TS]

01:12:29   Peele sketch that takes place after the [TS]

01:12:31   apocalypse where you've got one guy in [TS]

01:12:33   total survival mode and then he runs [TS]

01:12:36   into another guy who is basically [TS]

01:12:38   dressed for like Pride Day and is yeah [TS]

01:12:40   trippin his balls off the ATM and the [TS]

01:12:43   survive it and that basically makes me [TS]

01:12:46   think of the discussion we're having [TS]

01:12:47   that where I think the kid was like you [TS]

01:12:48   know what there's no one around and I am [TS]

01:12:50   free to let my tiny little freak flag [TS]

01:12:52   fly and unfortunately trashcan man ran [TS]

01:12:57   into him and i think i'm supposed to [TS]

01:12:58   illustrate is that this guy is just he [TS]

01:13:02   gets victimized by everybody was [TS]

01:13:03   literally nobody who's ever kind to [TS]

01:13:05   trashcan man because that's what because [TS]

01:13:06   that's except for Randall Flagg my life [TS]

01:13:09   for you [TS]

01:13:09   yeah you know and and but but there's no [TS]

01:13:12   human being that that ever offers this [TS]

01:13:14   guy any [TS]

01:13:14   fellowship or anything other than B then [TS]

01:13:16   fear and contempt and scorn and she and [TS]

01:13:20   that that is to me what makes the trash [TS]

01:13:21   came in just such an ultimately pitiable [TS]

01:13:23   tragic figure like he just it's just [TS]

01:13:26   it's just in just after justice heaped [TS]

01:13:30   on this dude and I feel terrible for my [TS]

01:13:33   always never before never read the book [TS]

01:13:35   you know it's it's it just sucks to be [TS]

01:13:37   him [TS]

01:13:37   I don't like the kid but I love [TS]

01:13:39   everything about the trashcan man with [TS]

01:13:41   which is what gets me through those [TS]

01:13:42   seams [TS]

01:13:43   oh my god especially pleased with the [TS]

01:13:45   wolves and he's putting the walls as it [TS]

01:13:46   goes [TS]

01:13:46   oh yeah tell me where he's like just had [TS]

01:13:48   some what their dogs [TS]

01:13:50   speaking of which should we should we [TS]

01:13:52   mentioned the dog dimension Kojak [TS]

01:13:54   oh right because little doggie dreams [TS]

01:13:57   and exposure can and then he shows up [TS]

01:13:59   again later [TS]

01:14:00   yes because he's been following all this [TS]

01:14:03   time since he's a dog [TS]

01:14:04   these dogs just like the incredible [TS]

01:14:06   journey only the adult version i think [TS]

01:14:08   it's interesting how there's the animal [TS]

01:14:09   breakdown like the wolves and the crows [TS]

01:14:11   will always be Randall flags and the [TS]

01:14:12   cats are just creepy and and the horses [TS]

01:14:14   are all dead and I I'll of humanity's [TS]

01:14:18   best friends or day after I i love how [TS]

01:14:20   to spell that doesn't like what about [TS]

01:14:21   pigs are pics morally neutral doing [TS]

01:14:23   besides you know I i love that because [TS]

01:14:26   it doesn't he doesn't explain it [TS]

01:14:28   medically at all but in such a great [TS]

01:14:30   touch to say when this flu also kills [TS]

01:14:32   horses [TS]

01:14:32   yeah okay dead yeah what else what else [TS]

01:14:36   anything I'm baby can you dig your man [TS]

01:14:39   sounds like a terrible song it does but [TS]

01:14:41   i'm not i had to feel like maybe that's [TS]

01:14:44   why me terrible songs are popular I [TS]

01:14:46   think it's kind of something supposed to [TS]

01:14:48   be like he's not it would never have [TS]

01:14:49   been hit in nineteen he's not Bob Dylan [TS]

01:14:51   right 19 in nineteen eighties like a [TS]

01:14:54   marshall crenshaw kind of guy are not as [TS]

01:14:56   good and he's got up to just happen to [TS]

01:14:58   have a hit song but it does it's not a [TS]

01:15:00   very good song now looking at my notes I [TS]

01:15:03   want to share probably my favorite [TS]

01:15:05   sentence in the book which is by Dawn [TS]

01:15:08   they were running east across Nevada and [TS]

01:15:10   Charlie was coughing steadily oh yeah [TS]

01:15:13   that whole first chapter i really like [TS]

01:15:15   it i like that seeing kind of like he's [TS]

01:15:17   not a big character he dies pretty darn [TS]

01:15:19   quickly right but he's just at his desk [TS]

01:15:21   the alarm goes off and the door just [TS]

01:15:22   happen to not close why the door [TS]

01:15:24   close i don't know sometimes the doors [TS]

01:15:25   and close maybe close the millisecond [TS]

01:15:27   after you got through I don't know what [TS]

01:15:28   he's like [TS]

01:15:29   alarm door didn't close and he makes a [TS]

01:15:31   split-second decision which is to get [TS]

01:15:32   out of there anyway cuz family and like [TS]

01:15:33   that when you repeatedly read it you [TS]

01:15:35   know what is happening during those [TS]

01:15:36   sequences you're like don't go back home [TS]

01:15:38   you just killed your entire you know and [TS]

01:15:40   it kills everybody where we go daddy I [TS]

01:15:43   was a sleepin how I wrote that now too [TS]

01:15:46   I wasn't to sleep in a second [TS]

01:15:52   no no one that's and that's the thing [TS]

01:15:54   that gets you into this but what a great [TS]

01:15:56   way to get into this book is with this [TS]

01:15:57   you know increasing you know what this [TS]

01:16:00   book is about you know it's going to be [TS]

01:16:01   disastrous but to watch it happen [TS]

01:16:03   step-by-step is fascinating and that's [TS]

01:16:05   what gets you in and then you're done [TS]

01:16:08   you're trapped in the vortex and you're [TS]

01:16:10   2,000 pages later you've read the book [TS]

01:16:12   again so uh we're about done anything [TS]

01:16:15   that we have not talked about that [TS]

01:16:17   somebody wants to throw out before I [TS]

01:16:19   wrap it up [TS]

01:16:20   how about this sentence the world he [TS]

01:16:22   thought not according to GARP but [TS]

01:16:24   according to the super flu [TS]

01:16:26   yeah oh that was really wow this here's [TS]

01:16:31   a nightmare for wild about 1,200 pages [TS]

01:16:34   you're gonna get a few clunkers wow wow [TS]

01:16:38   well you know Larry Underwood is not a [TS]

01:16:39   singer in a world where AHA has hit the [TS]

01:16:42   charts with take on me that's all I'm [TS]

01:16:43   self it's just not possible [TS]

01:16:45   the world changed after that day I don't [TS]

01:16:48   know [TS]

01:16:48   alright we have come to the end the [TS]

01:16:52   battle between good and evil has been [TS]

01:16:54   flawed and John has been defeated [TS]

01:16:56   wait a second I wasn't involved that was [TS]

01:17:00   off someplace else I didn't go to either [TS]

01:17:01   city or in a pleasant caves yeah [TS]

01:17:03   boulder looks awful go to San Diego yeah [TS]

01:17:05   that's that's why it gets colder in the [TS]

01:17:07   winter don't go there on that no we are [TS]

01:17:10   really gonna break break away and plan [TS]

01:17:12   our post-apocalypse plants again until [TS]

01:17:15   then i would like to thank my guests for [TS]

01:17:17   surviving past the super flu and joining [TS]

01:17:19   me to talk about this really fun classic [TS]

01:17:22   book that we've all read multiple times [TS]

01:17:24   Lisa Schmeisser thank you pleasure as [TS]

01:17:26   always thank you but Monty actually [TS]

01:17:29   thanks for being here [TS]

01:17:30   I'm a righteous man wonder when you say [TS]

01:17:35   Erica and sign thank you for being here [TS]

01:17:39   thank you and thank you for inspiring me [TS]

01:17:41   to read this yet again it was it was a [TS]

01:17:43   great trip [TS]

01:17:44   all right get it great great trips to [TS]

01:17:47   the Capitol thinking on some great trips [TS]

01:17:49   John Syracuse to thank you so much for [TS]

01:17:51   being here [TS]

01:17:52   life was such a wheel that no podcast [TS]

01:17:53   could stand upon it for long Jason deep [TS]

01:17:56   em oon that spells goodnight everybody [TS]

01:18:21   what do you guys want to live in the [TS]

01:18:25   post captain tripps world or widget or [TS]

01:18:27   are you to point your life and you're [TS]

01:18:28   like oh dude I hope I go first [TS]

01:18:30   I hope I like one of the first ones out [TS]

01:18:31   the door because my answer has changed a [TS]

01:18:34   different place in my life you know and [TS]

01:18:36   i find it interesting to to to walk [TS]

01:18:40   myself through a different apocalyptic [TS]

01:18:42   scenarios and be like is this one I'd [TS]

01:18:44   want to be alive in her or no I feel [TS]

01:18:47   like I've spent enough of my life [TS]

01:18:48   picturing what i would do in a [TS]

01:18:50   post-apocalyptic scenario that it would [TS]

01:18:52   be a shame not to give it a try haha [TS]

01:18:54   what would you do what would you do here [TS]

01:18:57   well if it's a case like this where [TS]

01:18:59   everybody's dead but there's no [TS]

01:19:02   immediate threat like zombies or aliens [TS]

01:19:05   or something then I think I would just [TS]

01:19:08   try to set up a the life of a hermit [TS]

01:19:10   like find a place that has food enough [TS]

01:19:14   until i'm going to die naturally and [TS]

01:19:16   then collect all the books i can and go [TS]

01:19:18   time enough at last I'm going to laugh [TS]

01:19:20   this is a bad strategy [TS]

01:19:23   well what would you need you need to [TS]

01:19:25   have it that's fine except you need to [TS]

01:19:27   bring enough technology and non hermit [TS]

01:19:29   type stuff so you can offer yourself [TS]

01:19:30   when it turns out you have some terminal [TS]

01:19:32   disease is going to make you die in [TS]

01:19:33   agony and is what I think about in the [TS]

01:19:34   post apocalypse is like alright so first [TS]

01:19:36   I have my full family has to be dead [TS]

01:19:38   because i don't want them to be in the [TS]

01:19:39   pot clips and that's just bad and trying [TS]

01:19:40   to defend them from the other people [TS]

01:19:42   with guns and everything so assume [TS]

01:19:43   everyone's that except for me my family [TS]

01:19:44   happened to die i don't want that to [TS]

01:19:46   happen but if it did you see in that [TS]

01:19:48   world you cannot wait is that what lexus [TS]

01:19:50   kids probably right exactly you know but [TS]

01:19:53   what I think about mostly is like the [TS]

01:19:55   comfort that we're all used to like [TS]

01:19:56   being the right temperature not getting [TS]

01:19:58   rain on you or whatever and it's not too [TS]

01:20:00   hard to get that comfort for yourself if [TS]

01:20:02   nothing is destroyed and there's not [TS]

01:20:04   marauding thread or anything because you [TS]

01:20:06   can pick kind of the nicest place you [TS]

01:20:08   have whatever you have to sort of have [TS]

01:20:09   all these contingency plans for like I [TS]

01:20:13   need one of each of one of these things [TS]

01:20:15   i need all these things lined up i need [TS]

01:20:16   i need to have the ability to kill [TS]

01:20:18   myself if when i get older injured sort [TS]

01:20:21   of on me at all times because the worst [TS]

01:20:22   thing you want to happen is for you to [TS]

01:20:23   fall and break your leg and not be able [TS]

01:20:26   to walk home and getting too cold and [TS]

01:20:28   your you get you know back in Arabic [TS]

01:20:30   impossible when there's nobody around [TS]

01:20:32   you have to be prepared for those kind [TS]

01:20:34   of the astronauts with a little like [TS]

01:20:35   they're prepared it you know well it [TS]

01:20:36   looks like you're gonna die a little [TS]

01:20:38   cyanide pills whatever they have [TS]

01:20:39   do you have a source of everything that [TS]

01:20:41   I don't know what they tell you in that [TS]

01:20:44   story say that anyway I in a [TS]

01:20:46   post-apocalyptic world you would have to [TS]

01:20:48   account for all those things so so so [TS]

01:20:51   Monty the key is in your cave where you [TS]

01:20:54   live as a hermit you're with all your [TS]

01:20:55   books your library cave having I mean [TS]

01:20:58   castle have yes i have a space heater [TS]

01:21:00   yeah and and some means of offing [TS]

01:21:02   yourself like I'm going to eat that's [TS]

01:21:05   just like in your kitchen because you [TS]

01:21:06   have to deal with like fresh water and [TS]

01:21:07   food like you'd have to develop a system [TS]

01:21:09   where you can live in some reasonable [TS]

01:21:10   amount of comfort otherwise you spend [TS]

01:21:11   all your time like looking for food and [TS]

01:21:13   making sure you survive the winter and [TS]

01:21:14   that's not really fun [TS]

01:21:16   oh yeah I don't want a post-apocalypse [TS]

01:21:18   where I have to go camping all the time [TS]

01:21:20   that's awful [TS]

01:21:20   no that's yeah yeah i just recently [TS]

01:21:23   moved to a new city so all of my old [TS]

01:21:26   apocalypse plans are completely out the [TS]

01:21:27   window and I'm really have a rebuild [TS]

01:21:29   so I had had actually gotten to that [TS]

01:21:31   point where i have figured out what i [TS]

01:21:33   would do you know well post-apocalypse [TS]

01:21:35   however i have sort of thought of the [TS]

01:21:37   the short-term things and like you know [TS]

01:21:38   how I could use Lego to build some [TS]

01:21:40   contractions to collect rainwater off [TS]

01:21:42   the belt that sort of thing [TS]

01:21:45   I'm just think that you should broaden [TS]

01:21:46   your horizons because the world is your [TS]

01:21:48   oyster like I you should go to a place [TS]

01:21:50   where you could never afford to live a [TS]

01:21:51   beautiful place with natural beauty and [TS]

01:21:53   natural resources where someone has [TS]

01:21:55   already built a multimillion-dollar [TS]

01:21:55   complex with lovely views like that's [TS]

01:21:58   your opportunity now the whole world is [TS]

01:22:00   yours i guess i was thinking of you know [TS]

01:22:02   having to hide in the apartment because [TS]

01:22:04   there's always put a damper on they put [TS]

01:22:07   a damper on things and then not more [TS]

01:22:09   than be told some B's some B's never [TS]

01:22:10   factored into it i don't like zombies it [TS]

01:22:12   suitors and rapists with a school bus [TS]

01:22:14   yeah dude let's be the left-field the [TS]

01:22:16   post-apocalyptic scenario for a woman is [TS]

01:22:18   a whole lot different than one for a guy [TS]

01:22:19   I feel what I'm thinking like that [TS]

01:22:22   enough people would be dead that you [TS]

01:22:23   could realistically not expect to see [TS]

01:22:25   another person like this understand they [TS]

01:22:27   don't see a lot of other people i know [TS]

01:22:28   you said Jason just did the math and it [TS]

01:22:31   seems like they should be way more [TS]

01:22:31   people but i'm thinking of a stand like [TS]

01:22:33   Apocalypse where it's like two is in [TS]

01:22:35   threes bump into each other and arrive [TS]

01:22:37   and in boulder [TS]

01:22:38   like a group of 20 and that's a big deal [TS]

01:22:40   yeah you could you could you know you [TS]

01:22:41   could realistically just the place for [TS]

01:22:43   you want to let your children 19 other [TS]

01:22:45   people just sounds like a nightmare [TS]

01:22:46   yeah that's what I don't go to boulder [TS]

01:22:48   like yeah they in the Hamptons it'll be [TS]

01:22:50   nice to have probably i would probably [TS]

01:22:53   try to move south you know it's kind of [TS]

01:22:55   cold up here from you after the year i [TS]

01:22:57   recommend that nobody's gonna be [TS]

01:22:58   watching the border [TS]

01:22:59   yeah i would recommend i would recommend [TS]

01:23:02   against having a summer home in a winter [TS]

01:23:04   home even though it seems like it's a [TS]

01:23:05   thing you want to do because traveling [TS]

01:23:07   like they might run into someone else [TS]

01:23:09   and if you do run into someone else it's [TS]

01:23:10   probably not going to be good also until [TS]

01:23:13   you learn to read the weather you may [TS]

01:23:15   get caught out in early winter or yeah [TS]

01:23:17   have adequate food stores especially if [TS]

01:23:20   you have to do an agriculture I was kind [TS]

01:23:22   of permanently psychologically [TS]

01:23:23   traumatized by the road and so and so at [TS]

01:23:27   this point I'm not sure I'd want to [TS]

01:23:29   survive any apocalypse just because it [TS]

01:23:31   seems like it would be so FA miserable I [TS]

01:23:34   mean you have no note no indoor plumbing [TS]

01:23:36   which is kind of a deal killer for me [TS]

01:23:38   and if I had no god forbid I have to [TS]

01:23:41   take care of somebody else and but on [TS]

01:23:43   the other hand is the crippling grief [TS]

01:23:45   from losing everyone I love and I think [TS]

01:23:47   the stands though the stand this is this [TS]

01:23:49   clean apocalypse where it's not quite so [TS]

01:23:51   bad because uh you know the babies the [TS]

01:23:54   babies live apparently right and we just [TS]

01:23:57   gone down to a very small population but [TS]

01:23:59   a small populations much more tenable [TS]

01:24:02   manageable than the one you two million [TS]

01:24:05   people in the US you can you can do [TS]

01:24:07   something with that so I feel like [TS]

01:24:08   society will rebuild and that and that [TS]

01:24:11   there will be structure and there is a [TS]

01:24:13   future whereas in something like the [TS]

01:24:14   road literally you're just waiting [TS]

01:24:16   around for everybody to die [TS]

01:24:18   yeah like I said don't think anybody [TS]

01:24:20   would clearly traumatized me about that [TS]

01:24:22   which is how vulnerable you are when you [TS]

01:24:24   have somebody else you're responsible [TS]

01:24:26   for and so I think if you're 13 and you [TS]

01:24:29   survived the apocalypse then by all [TS]

01:24:31   means [TS]

01:24:32   grab your boat sale of the Atlantic [TS]

01:24:34   coast dock in the Potomac River and go [TS]

01:24:36   live in the Smithsonian you know the [TS]

01:24:37   plan works but I mean now again like I [TS]

01:24:41   said either i'd be holy crap I've lost [TS]

01:24:43   my entire family or I'd be paralyzed [TS]

01:24:45   with terror over trying to be [TS]

01:24:47   responsible for you know keeping a [TS]

01:24:49   preschooler alive in the after escaping [TS]

01:24:50   and both of those process [TS]

01:24:51   thanks to seem awful i also washington [TS]

01:24:55   DC in August is awful [TS]

01:24:57   well you don't have air-conditioning I [TS]

01:24:58   didn't have a lot of things a lot of [TS]

01:25:00   dead bodies [TS]

01:25:00   that's what you and you have to get the [TS]

01:25:02   electricity back up my mom did not [TS]

01:25:04   believe in her condition growing up and [TS]

01:25:05   my knees and my reasoning was that if I [TS]

01:25:08   went to the Smithsonian they probably [TS]

01:25:10   had backup generators for all of the [TS]

01:25:11   archival quality effects they had and [TS]

01:25:15   failing that they also had cool [TS]

01:25:17   basements made of marble where you could [TS]

01:25:19   you could comfortably sleep and then I [TS]

01:25:20   could spend my days reading everything I [TS]

01:25:22   wanted to or dressing up in the first [TS]

01:25:23   lady's outfits or replace the dinosaur [TS]

01:25:26   bones or whatever it is I want to do it [TS]

01:25:27   was 13 because I'm yeah well you know [TS]

01:25:30   having DC is your own playground imagine [TS]

01:25:32   you could go play basketball on the top [TS]

01:25:35   floor of the Supreme Court the highest [TS]

01:25:38   court in the land way did didn't I [TS]

01:25:41   didn't Randall Flagg effectively new [TS]

01:25:43   court torch the entire west coast [TS]

01:25:45   because there's like there's one in [TS]

01:25:46   there about what he did to San Francisco [TS]

01:25:48   and Los Angeles before coming [TS]

01:25:49   well you know it's there's probably lots [TS]

01:25:52   of available which button to San [TS]

01:25:54   Francisco would actually be great place [TS]

01:25:56   to write out the apocalypse like the [TS]

01:25:57   weather is really good there's a lot of [TS]

01:25:58   arable land people probably have victory [TS]

01:26:00   garden village [TS]

01:26:02   yeah that's good free-range vegetarians [TS]

01:26:04   to prey on when you want to resort to [TS]

01:26:06   cannibalism [TS]

01:26:06   maybe there might be 34 needed yeah [TS]

01:26:09   maybe their diets made the weekend only [TS]