0:00:00mmm that was half lots of a half wookie
0:00:05co yeah I don't know what that was that
0:00:07went terribly wrong i guess i was going
0:00:08wrong when i was doing it but whatever
0:00:10the show must go on
0:00:11what do you think of the taco
0:00:14I think it's pretty coat i think it's a
0:00:16very good title rogue one is a good
0:00:18title for Star Wars movie
0:00:20I liked it thumbs up two thumbs up for
0:00:21the title good stop
0:00:23yeah it's it's it's funny for me because
0:00:25for various reasons i have been more
0:00:28disconnected from the world than normal
0:00:30for the past many weeks I only just
0:00:32found out literally like days ago that
0:00:34this star wars movie even existed and
0:00:37was in the theaters so I I went into
0:00:40this one knowing the words Road one and
0:00:44vaguely what I'd heard a year ago that
0:00:45they were going to make a movie about
0:00:46getting the Death Star plans
0:00:48yeah and that was that was the entire
0:00:51extent of my knowledge like I knew more
0:00:52about the force awakens by multiples of
0:00:56hundreds than than this movie so I went
0:00:58into it
0:00:59just knowing cool title very cool title
0:01:01and that was basically it did not saying
0:01:03trailers or anything or I hadn't seen
0:01:06trailers I hadn't seen posters is
0:01:08somehow this one totally blew past me
0:01:12yeah and the only thing I knew about it
0:01:14was was last year hearing about their
0:01:16plan to do and in between sewed kind of
0:01:20a movie every year as opposed to their
0:01:22main one so that was it i knew i knew
0:01:24nothing walking into the Star Wars movie
0:01:25nice work i managed to remain reasonably
0:01:28spoiler-free thank goodness and as of
0:01:30now i'm also very very review and
0:01:34opinion free
0:01:35mmm i do not have reasonably positive
0:01:38reviews raised me positive but I don't
0:01:40know what people have liked to not like
0:01:41to what people have said so things we
0:01:44say that we might think of profound may
0:01:46have been set of thousand times before
0:01:47or we may find something amazing thing
0:01:49that no one's ever said before but
0:01:51knowing the sort of star wars ii podcast
0:01:53few things I think we're all going to be
0:01:54saying the same things that everyone
0:01:55else says yeah if if if last year's Star
0:01:58Wars Christmas special was anything to
0:02:00go by what we regard ourselves from
0:02:03listening to all sorts of reviews not
0:02:05only to discover after recording our
0:02:06podcast and listening to everybody
0:02:08else's that there was a very strong
0:02:10consensus opinion
0:02:12yeah i feel i feel a little bit more
0:02:14more nervous going into this podcast
0:02:17having not looked out into the wider
0:02:19world and seeing what people think of
0:02:21the movie because I feel like I have
0:02:23much stronger opinions in particular
0:02:26ways for this one really i'm a little
0:02:28actually feeling a little bit like I
0:02:29don't know how my reactions to what are
0:02:33going to match up with the wider world
0:02:35reactions on the barbecue area to see if
0:02:37it repeats that shouldn't matter grey I
0:02:39shouldn't matter you should be fiercely
0:02:40independent
0:02:41youyou strong independent minded cgpgrey
0:02:44never a shape
0:02:46why you nervous about how your opinion
0:02:48compares with us I don't know I guess I
0:02:49guess nervous isn't exactly the right
0:02:51word but it's just i'm looking at like a
0:02:54big page of notes and i have a bunch of
0:02:56strong opinions and it's just
0:02:58interesting to see like I'm gonna get a
0:02:59ton of feedback from people saying that
0:03:01I'm totally wrong or is or is it going
0:03:03to be just like oh yes you have you have
0:03:05the same thoughts as everybody else like
0:03:07last year I don't know it's just kind of
0:03:09a funny thing to to be going into this
0:03:12with i think that that kind of like I
0:03:14have no idea what anybody else thought
0:03:16about it i literally just saw it it came
0:03:19out of the theater like a couple hours
0:03:21ago from my notes viewing of the movie
0:03:25and so now we are we are walking into
0:03:27the recording i have 22 tiny little
0:03:30bullet points that I made on my iphone
0:03:31during the film so they're roughly in
0:03:33order are basically because I made them
0:03:34as the film went on and I made them on a
0:03:36checklist app that i never i don't use
0:03:38for anything other than the podcast i
0:03:42have 22 things to say
0:03:44maybe but I imagine it's going to be a
0:03:45lot of duplication and also i mentioned
0:03:49some of them are either going to be so
0:03:50badly tight or I'm not gonna remember
0:03:52what they made because i haven't read it
0:03:53back yet so let's see how we go alright
0:03:56let's see how we go where do we start
0:03:58well I guess I guess
0:04:01don't we have to do the thing that you
0:04:03always want to do which is brady you
0:04:05have to you have to give your your
0:04:07overall opinion and feeling of the movie
0:04:09yeah I don't think that we need to do
0:04:11this but I feel like isn't that what we
0:04:13always have to do this feels like the
0:04:14Brady rule for discussing movies it is
0:04:16kind of a tradition and I do think it's
0:04:18useful but i was thinking of doing it
0:04:21your way for once in giving your one-off
0:04:23exemption
0:04:24but but I i think it does help and maybe
0:04:27it is a tradition
0:04:28hmm ok so it's funny that you wanted to
0:04:31do with the reverse way because you
0:04:35finally prepared for know is it's not
0:04:37that I was prepared for it it's not that
0:04:39I was prepared for it because i think
0:04:41most of the time my way is better
0:04:42hmm i but but that's you know that's
0:04:46going to be the title of your
0:04:47autobiography my way is better at the
0:04:51cgpgrey story but this one time I feel
0:04:55like I can't walk through the movie and
0:04:58talk about it without having the overall
0:05:01framework in place I feel like that
0:05:03conversation would almost be a a silly
0:05:05pointless conversation so i think i'm
0:05:08going to press very hard with we should
0:05:10give our opinions at the beginning
0:05:11because I don't know how to talk about
0:05:12this otherwise i love it I love it
0:05:15alright and so Brady I want to know what
0:05:19is your high-level take away from rogue
0:05:22one how do you feel about it i thought i
0:05:27was gonna love it
0:05:28Lou and I feel surprisingly indifferent
0:05:33about it who I thought I just sort of
0:05:36thing man
0:05:38it was it was just like a good movie it
0:05:41was a good movie it was well done
0:05:43I there were lots of things I liked
0:05:44about it it was well-executed I'd be
0:05:46very proud of myself if I'd made it ok
0:05:49but it was just like for various reasons
0:05:52that will touch on it didn't like
0:05:54grabbed me it didn't it didn't it it
0:05:57roused very little emotion in me and the
0:05:59way that even a force the force awakens
0:06:01did that mean i'm back i got very
0:06:03emotional about that film but this was
0:06:05just kind of I just sort of felt like
0:06:07watching it was little bit of a chore
0:06:09who and it was nice
0:06:11there are lots of there are lots of good
0:06:12things and you know I couldn't possibly
0:06:15give it a thumbs down because it's a
0:06:18good film but I just
0:06:20but i'm not gonna give it like a big
0:06:21thumbs up I mean I a good test was are
0:06:23sore on my own little my wife doesn't
0:06:25mind style was movies and she was a bit
0:06:27jealous that I was going to get together
0:06:28and say it without her cause she was at
0:06:30work and I said to her and this is what
0:06:33happened with force awakens to i watch
0:06:34that with her as well because of the
0:06:36same reason but I
0:06:37tresor I said we've got to see it and
0:06:39the next night we went to work together
0:06:40when she came home from work with this
0:06:42one and she said so what was rode one
0:06:43like you know am I gonna go on say it
0:06:45with you my answer was I think you can
0:06:48probably wait
0:06:49hmm I wouldn't rush out to see it this
0:06:52is gonna be like a you watch it on
0:06:54Netflix sometime kind of movie
0:06:55yeah yeah so so it could have been far
0:07:00worse you know we all we all know we all
0:07:03know what happens when a star wars movie
0:07:04goes wrong the radio we all know how bad
0:07:07it could be and that and that definitely
0:07:09didn't happen right but my overall
0:07:12feeling is some good stuff some very
0:07:15good stuff actually few things I can't
0:07:16wait to talk about some things that I
0:07:18thought mr. mark was an important things
0:07:20I think miss the mark who
0:07:22but solid if they make one of these
0:07:25every second year i'll go watch em and i
0:07:27think that i don't think they could I do
0:07:30think it sort of you just dragging down
0:07:32Style Wars a whole little bit for my
0:07:34liking but that's just me being me who
0:07:36and being an old grump better if they
0:07:40have to if they have to make them and
0:07:42they keep making them at this level
0:07:43I'm okay with that interesting
0:07:46interesting Brady mm so that feels like
0:07:50a at an overall like it
0:07:53tepid enjoyment is that is that what I'm
0:07:55getting from you that's not unfair it's
0:07:57like it's not a big vertical thumbs up
0:08:00right
0:08:00it's not a thumbs down right it's kind
0:08:02of a thumb pointing at about eight or
0:08:05ten o'clock on the clock because you're
0:08:09turning this binary scale into actually
0:08:11a rotational scale right that's what's
0:08:13occurring there
0:08:14yeah i'm using your thumbs up thumbs
0:08:16down in my way right and i'm just
0:08:18picturing all the teams at home right
0:08:19now holding up their family pointing at
0:08:21about ten o'clock yeah okay I see what
0:08:23he means if you're doing it i can see
0:08:26you there you go
0:08:30did you do it I didn't do it reading now
0:08:32and why would I be doing your thumbs up
0:08:36and 45 or at ten o'clock i don't
0:08:38understand why would be doing that where
0:08:40does your thumb point on this great give
0:08:41me your big picture
0:08:44ok so big picture
0:08:46I have to say that what i really liked
0:08:49and what I kept feeling throughout the
0:08:51movie was I enjoy this universe and I
0:08:56really enjoy this star wars universe and
0:09:00unlike the really terrible movies I felt
0:09:03like rode one is a movie that is so
0:09:05clearly in the star wars universe as it
0:09:09is in my head all of the sets look great
0:09:12all of the costume design looks great
0:09:14all of the physical items and props and
0:09:17like everything that they're doing it
0:09:18just looks Star Wars it feels Star Wars
0:09:21it sounds like Star Wars and I'm sitting
0:09:23there in the theater thinking where I
0:09:26really just I love this universe like
0:09:28this universe is burned into my brain
0:09:30but I i have to say i thought this movie
0:09:36was just like a disaster as mess I i'm
0:09:39not a fan
0:09:41I have to say I really really it's not
0:09:45that I didn't like it is not like oh
0:09:47what a terrible movie it but it's just
0:09:49this word is the word that keeps coming
0:09:51into my mind like it's a sloppy mess
0:09:54there's just as much as like oh I want
0:09:58to see a bunch of Star Wars stuff and
0:09:59that is that is like great
0:10:00it also felt like there's just Star Wars
0:10:03junk all over the place where where's
0:10:05ipping all over the universe were going
0:10:08to all of these different locations
0:10:10I understand what's happening but
0:10:12there's just too much going on there
0:10:13isn't like a clear story line heading
0:10:15heading through it and it just it's a
0:10:18mess like I think that that's that's my
0:10:20my like blurb on the movie poster like
0:10:22Star Wars road one it's a mess like
0:10:25that's that's how it feels to be
0:10:26watching it and so I feel like I saw the
0:10:28movie last night for the first time and
0:10:29I always like to just watch a movie and
0:10:32have let it wash over me and then I saw
0:10:34it this morning to take some notes on
0:10:37some particular things and and to pay
0:10:39attention to some of the scenes that I
0:10:40was thinking about from last night and I
0:10:42just feel totally reconfirmed in my my
0:10:44takeaway like it's just it's just a mess
0:10:47it feels like i don't know maybe that
0:10:49maybe the scriptures was rushed or I
0:10:51don't know what it is but it just it
0:10:53doesn't hold together for me as
0:10:56as a movie and on my first watching I
0:11:00felt completely totally uninvolved
0:11:04emotionally throughout ninety-five
0:11:07percent of the entire running of the
0:11:09film that is its biggest downfall from
0:11:1080 for the lack of emotional engagement
0:11:13and any level of care about the
0:11:17characters even I can't disagree with
0:11:18you about it being a mess gray and
0:11:20there's no better way than to realize
0:11:22what a mess it is then to read the plot
0:11:24summary on wikipedia and you just get
0:11:27like I tried to read it three or four
0:11:29times and it's just like the fact that
0:11:32give it every one such ridiculous names
0:11:34doesn't help
0:11:34no but yeah you've got things like Jean
0:11:37and/or and his reprogram Imperial Droid
0:11:39k 2 s.o travel to Jenna where the
0:11:41Empire's mining Kyber crystals to power
0:11:43the superweapon Herrera and his
0:11:45partisans are engaged in armed
0:11:46insurgency against them with the aid of
0:11:48a blind warrior cheer up in we and
0:11:50mercenary Bay's Melba's gin makes
0:11:52contact with kanima what are what
0:11:57yeah it and they go to more places than
0:12:00they needed to have this feeling about
0:12:02movies that you can know what a movie is
0:12:05like very fast right within the first
0:12:09two scenes of the movie lots of movies
0:12:10will have an establishing pre something
0:12:13happening scene and so in Star Wars
0:12:15grove won its it's the opening scene
0:12:17about the Empire's coming to find their
0:12:19scientists who is hiding out in Iceland
0:12:21being a farmer which i think is a
0:12:22terrible place to be a farmer
0:12:24there's like this little contain story
0:12:26and like that's good like that's fine
0:12:29that feels like this is the start of the
0:12:30movie but immediately after that and I
0:12:34was just curious like I was making out a
0:12:36little time running because I just
0:12:38wanted to see like how did my initial
0:12:39impressions matchup with the reality of
0:12:41what the what the movie is and it's like
0:12:44okay the first eight minutes are great i
0:12:47think it's like this is a nice opening
0:12:49for Star Wars movie it's it's clear
0:12:51what's happening
0:12:51the Empire is coming to take a guy who
0:12:53doesn't want to go to build a weapon got
0:12:55it right we're all were all fine we're
0:12:56all on board and then I timed it in the
0:12:59next five minutes we go to five
0:13:04different planets and are introduced to
0:13:06something like eight characters
0:13:09and and that to me was watching the
0:13:12movie for the first time I felt like oh
0:13:15no we're in a little bit of trouble here
0:13:17like I'm we're at the third planet that
0:13:19has a little overlay on the bottom of
0:13:22what the name of the place is and what
0:13:24it is and it's like I'm following you
0:13:25movie but i'm having a hard time
0:13:27focusing on what is the thing that I'm
0:13:30supposed to care about like like this is
0:13:32the thing that i find fascinating about
0:13:34movies why in some movies do they
0:13:37emotionally grab you and why do some
0:13:39other movies just completely failed to
0:13:42grab you and I I i think that in this
0:13:45movie the reason it fails to grab me is
0:13:48there's just there's just too much going
0:13:50on right at the start and it's it's hard
0:13:54to know where to focus your mind on what
0:13:56part of the story writer who matters era
0:14:00well I kind of feel like I know where
0:14:02you stand should we go through the film
0:14:04a bit and find out why this is the case
0:14:06let's go through the film ho ho Merry
0:14:13Christmas
0:14:14hello Internet listeners and patrons
0:14:17this Star Wars Christmas episode is
0:14:19brought to you solely and exclusively by
0:14:22our wonderful supporters over at patreon
0:14:25we really appreciate you guys and hope
0:14:28that you enjoy this discussion of Star
0:14:30Wars road one if you'd like to support
0:14:32the show you two can go to
0:14:34patreon.com/scishow ash
0:14:36hello Internet thank you to our patrons
0:14:38thank you to our listeners and a merry
0:14:40Christmas to you all
0:14:45now when i was walking to the cinema
0:14:48isn't it kind of crept up on me having
0:14:50to say this film so I didn't have time
0:14:52to know how I felt about it but when i
0:14:54was walking down the hill to my little
0:14:55local cinema I suddenly got a little
0:14:57excited moment when I thought I can't
0:15:01wait for that moment when I'm going to
0:15:02be sitting in the cinema and the fanfare
0:15:04is going to happen again and like i'm
0:15:05going to have that feeling right and
0:15:07then it but he didn't happen
0:15:10they don't do it don't do it in these in
0:15:12between films that turns out we're not
0:15:14going to have the rousing star wars on
0:15:16the screen and the john williams music
0:15:18we still get a long time ago in a galaxy
0:15:20far far away but then it just kind of
0:15:22and then I was sweating over here comes
0:15:24here comes here comes not know i think
0:15:28in the long run that's probably a good
0:15:30decision
0:15:30yep i think that for the alternate
0:15:32movies they don't want to get tied down
0:15:35into having to do that exact same
0:15:37fanfare every time
0:15:38yeah because that there is there is much
0:15:41we might discuss later that i would hope
0:15:43they might do in the star wars universe
0:15:44and I think that fanfare might not be
0:15:46appropriate for absolutely everything
0:15:47but I i agree with you i found it really
0:15:50jarring and and suddenly it seemed like
0:15:52everything was wrong in my head with
0:15:54user with an opening thing I even
0:15:56looking at the font of the road one like
0:15:57I don't know everything is all wrong
0:15:58like this is I'm a braced for a thing
0:16:01and it's no good
0:16:02it's started by disappointing me I even
0:16:05here's my note written before the film
0:16:06started i'm excited about the fan filled
0:16:09with that feeling of excitement ever go
0:16:11away
0:16:11well I went away pretty quick because it
0:16:14didn't happen style or I was a pretty
0:16:17cool start like you said in little
0:16:19Icelandic a place
0:16:22no although I have to say even here
0:16:26there was one little note that struck me
0:16:29as a little bit wrong and confusing and
0:16:31there's a bunch of points in the movie
0:16:32that I think are like this where the
0:16:35stormtroopers come in right there
0:16:36they're looking for their scientists
0:16:38they're searching for his daughter and
0:16:41that they're searching around the house
0:16:42and one of the stormtroopers bends down
0:16:44and picks up a little storm trooper Dahl
0:16:46which is evidence of the fact that the
0:16:47girl was there and I remember thinking
0:16:50like why would a fugitive from running
0:16:54from the Empire give his daughter a
0:16:57storm trooper Dahl to play with it was a
0:17:00little thing that set off like a flag in
0:17:03my mind like if this is this is going to
0:17:05come back up later or is this just a
0:17:07weird i don't know if i want to call it
0:17:09a mistake but it's just a strange thing
0:17:11it you know it's like I cannot imagine
0:17:13someone who has been like persecuted by
0:17:16a government giving their child a toy to
0:17:20play with that represents that
0:17:21government like that's that seems like a
0:17:23really weird really weird note to land
0:17:26on it was strange
0:17:27it was strange whether or not that's the
0:17:29star wars universe equivalent of toy
0:17:32soldiers and stuff i don't know but it
0:17:34was
0:17:34suny by the felt like something was
0:17:36gonna come over or felt like like the
0:17:38worst toy placement in the history of
0:17:40thai place isn't it great
0:17:43also in that early saying they had the
0:17:46blue milk obviously was will appeared
0:17:49and like I had a little smile to myself
0:17:51and thought I'm not gonna mind a little
0:17:53bit of fanservice that's okay
0:17:54little did I know how much more
0:17:56fanservice was about to be shoved down
0:17:58my throat in the next half an hour to an
0:18:00hour yet to the point where I was
0:18:02gagging on it
0:18:04yeah please no more blue milk and sake
0:18:07yes I i agree and end it also when we
0:18:10were watching it's like I recognize you
0:18:12blue milk but I'm concerned how central
0:18:15you were in the shot
0:18:16yeah right like it's not like oh there
0:18:18was blue milk on the counter in the
0:18:20background there was blue milk literally
0:18:22obstructing the actress makes shopping
0:18:24what she was doing for a second
0:18:26like do you see the blue milk there is
0:18:29blue milk in front of her we want to
0:18:30make sure that you don't miss it
0:18:32yeah and and yes i agree as well like
0:18:34it's a it's an indication of what is
0:18:37going to come and we can discuss the
0:18:39fanservice but that is an ad one minute
0:18:41and 37 seconds into the film so it
0:18:44begins with the blue milk
0:18:45yeah they're so we had a we had a
0:18:48starting sequence and and then we had
0:18:50the different the different music for
0:18:53the title mhm so it sounded almost like
0:18:55it sounded like they couldn't get the
0:18:57rights to the style of music so they had
0:18:59some amateur write something that sounds
0:19:01star wars ii mhm and but it it jarred
0:19:04like it charge of me it was like I know
0:19:06they I know they're trying to give these
0:19:08things their own distinctive brand and
0:19:10say this is different from the who you
0:19:12know the classic important trilogies but
0:19:15it was it was almost overbearing and
0:19:18it's different guess who
0:19:20which was a little bit of a worry but
0:19:21anyway we cracked on and so the film
0:19:24began landing and the next thing I wrote
0:19:27something you've already touched on i
0:19:29wrote gosh there are a lot of different
0:19:31places here and the text on the screen
0:19:33identifying the places you know the
0:19:36little text that came up and gave us the
0:19:38name of the planet and even explain what
0:19:39the planet was who was something I had
0:19:42very mixed feelings about why mixed
0:19:45feelings
0:19:45my initial feeling is this is wrong
0:19:47this is not what happens in a Star Wars
0:19:49movie and it's funny I think I've got
0:19:51I've got a bit of a double standard here
0:19:53and I'm aware of it because i'm quite
0:19:55happy to have captions when people are
0:19:57speaking alien languages and I'm also
0:19:59quite happy to have the role start the
0:20:01crawl at the start of a star wars film
0:20:03but those two things feel like I don't
0:20:05know they feel like a special exception
0:20:06but one of the things i like about the
0:20:08Styles universities it's like it's not
0:20:10there's no english language other than
0:20:12the fact everyone speaking English right
0:20:14there's no english language in texts
0:20:16mmm and-and-and this felt like it was
0:20:19breaking the rules of Star Wars by using
0:20:23English and I was still a caption on the
0:20:24screen it wasn't like a big street sign
0:20:26that said welcome to hearth but it still
0:20:28felt slightly like it was breaking the
0:20:30rules but I have mixed feelings about it
0:20:32because I also thought it did serve a
0:20:35purpose and one of the real criticisms
0:20:37of the force awakens for me as well but
0:20:39sometimes I didn't know where I was and
0:20:41what was going on and why this place was
0:20:43important and the text did take away
0:20:45that problem straightaway
0:20:47I straightaway you the context ok this
0:20:49is you know this is an imperial planet
0:20:51this is a this is what's going on here
0:20:53this is why they're here so like it did
0:20:55serve a purpose and it saved them a lot
0:20:57of potentially clumsy exposition who but
0:21:01it kind of felt like cheating and it
0:21:03kind of felt like this isn't what you do
0:21:05in the Style Wars film
0:21:06overall I don't know up when I came out
0:21:09of the film i thought it was wrong and I
0:21:10shouldn't have done that I've mellowed a
0:21:11bit now and I'm on the fence about
0:21:13whether it was a good or a bad thing
0:21:15whoo-hoo ya see that text struck me as
0:21:21immediately wrong for the same for the
0:21:23same reason
0:21:24mmm i thought like this is this feels so
0:21:29unstar Wars to me it it feels really out
0:21:32of place and it's interesting i couldn't
0:21:34have ended down the same way you do you
0:21:36just about the lack of the English
0:21:37language and in the films and maybe
0:21:39that's why it feels like it's a bit off
0:21:41somehow but I don't like it because i
0:21:45think almost always when this happens
0:21:47it's a it's a weakness of the writing of
0:21:50the movie and if they give you have to
0:21:53lean on the on-screen here's where we
0:21:56are here is what this thing is I feel
0:21:59like almost always there's a better
0:22:00way to do that yeah it mean it means
0:22:03like your locations aren't distinct
0:22:05enough or your character motivations
0:22:08aren't clear enough and i think this
0:22:10movie is a perfect example of that
0:22:12can we go to five different planets in
0:22:14five minutes with a whole bunch of
0:22:16characters you couldn't think they have
0:22:19to show you on the screen here is the
0:22:20name of a place and here's here's what
0:22:22it is ok next here's another place we're
0:22:24going to go and here's what it is ok
0:22:26next and I I just think it's like yes
0:22:28you have to do that because you're
0:22:30introducing so much but maybe you don't
0:22:33have to like maybe if you write this in
0:22:36a better way we don't have to visit all
0:22:38of the places in the universe right at
0:22:40the start
0:22:40yeah I don't know if it feels like one
0:22:42of those movies where it where they're
0:22:43like it's a political thriller right
0:22:45then and the show you like a skyline
0:22:47shot of Moscow hour and it says like
0:22:48Moscow on the bottom ya know you're
0:22:50almost waiting for like a little sound
0:22:51effect that they always use when the
0:22:52letters rollout yeah it just felt really
0:22:54it just felt really wrong
0:22:56I didn't like it and i think
0:22:59particularly in this movie it's like it
0:23:01was there was so much of it that because
0:23:04that is what this entire movie is like a
0:23:06million pieces
0:23:08eighty percent of which they could
0:23:09probably do without but for some reason
0:23:11they're going to include absolutely all
0:23:13of them but if they didn't use it
0:23:14without changing the script already know
0:23:16doing major surgery on the actual story
0:23:18I think we'd be complaining even more
0:23:20about how confused we were about what
0:23:23the hell was going on where everything
0:23:24was so if they were going to stick with
0:23:26their script then I think the text was a
0:23:28nun for unfortunately the correct
0:23:30decision i completely agree right if if
0:23:32I was like the visual effects editor on
0:23:34here and they just hand me the movie
0:23:36it's like I am putting words on these
0:23:38screens like we have to do this because
0:23:40otherwise it is way worse otherwise it's
0:23:43more confusing but I feel like those
0:23:44words are a symptom of a more
0:23:47fundamental problem that that's that's
0:23:50what they're showing you there
0:23:51yeah of course let's not forget Star
0:23:53Wars movies I famous perfect using a
0:23:57huge lot load of texts at the start to
0:24:00save himself a whole lot of storytelling
0:24:02before we get too carried away about the
0:24:04old Star Wars films about how clever
0:24:06they were by not using text based in
0:24:08favor of the book before the film
0:24:09started to bring you up to speed
0:24:11yes I let it that is the case but I also
0:24:14feel
0:24:14like I think with almost all of the
0:24:16original three movies you can blow past
0:24:19that script and it doesn't really matter
0:24:21tree like the first Star Wars like blah
0:24:23blah blah some words words words like I
0:24:25don't have any idea what the crawl say
0:24:27yeah but who cares because we open with
0:24:29a big mean-looking ship chasing a small
0:24:32ship and a guy in a black evil-looking
0:24:34suit hunting down a princess like got it
0:24:37right like I understand what's going on
0:24:38and doesn't matter what those words said
0:24:40yeah so what have you got next I've got
0:24:44lots of little bitty things here I don't
0:24:45want to get too busy but we don't want
0:24:47to get too busy and have to go through
0:24:49all of all of the plot points yeah
0:24:52butBut I think again like the reason why
0:24:54i want to lay out my my initial thoughts
0:24:57of this is I as I feel like in the first
0:25:0020 minutes of the film you just have all
0:25:03of these problems resurfacing in in
0:25:05various ways and upset so after our
0:25:08opening scene we met we now have a scene
0:25:11with the main character guy who were
0:25:13going to be following most of the time
0:25:15talking to a rando who's about to die in
0:25:18this one little like interaction between
0:25:19the two of them right there talking
0:25:22about Jenna they're talking about Kyber
0:25:24crystals they're talking about looking
0:25:26for Saul right they mentioned somebody
0:25:28else's name which I couldn't even write
0:25:30down fast enough in the theater when I
0:25:31was waiting for the scene to make a note
0:25:33of it to talk about like Ursula or like
0:25:35some other person and there's one more
0:25:38thing and it's like okay there's two
0:25:40characters we don't know you dropped
0:25:42five totally new names
0:25:45yeah in in this little minute
0:25:48interaction between the two of them and
0:25:50it's again it's like I can follow this
0:25:52but it's too much and and I don't know
0:25:55what to pay attention to and then one of
0:25:58these two characters dies immediately
0:25:59and and our main our main guy kind of
0:26:02runs off and then boom next scene right
0:26:03we're on to the next place while you
0:26:05brush past something that is quite
0:26:06significant in the film from a because
0:26:08this main character is this i think this
0:26:10is and/or is that the car had everyone's
0:26:13names kind of lost me I think he's cold
0:26:14hand or that the main guy the main that
0:26:16this is actually though I think it quite
0:26:18vital point which is my wife and I after
0:26:21we were discussing the movies seeing it
0:26:22last night we were both aware i can to
0:26:25be with my wife like the movie a lot
0:26:27more than I
0:26:27did but neither of us could remember a
0:26:30single characters name
0:26:32yeah it's true that we didn't already
0:26:34know from somewhere else and so we kept
0:26:36having these conversations about like oh
0:26:38the guy which guide the ninja guy
0:26:40no not the ninja guy the friend of the
0:26:42ninja guy owe him the muscle right it's
0:26:44like it's just amazing to see and I
0:26:46think it's a side effect again like i
0:26:49have watched a movie for two hours in
0:26:51between two people we can't pull a
0:26:54single name out of our memory i think
0:26:56that's again an indication of what's
0:26:58going on with this main guy and or who
0:27:00becomes like a main in here the film you
0:27:03talk about him in this other guy having
0:27:05a chat and then everything kicks off but
0:27:07significantly he shoots the other guy if
0:27:10you remember like they're about to get
0:27:12caught by the stormtroopers and this guy
0:27:14is going to be baggage because he's
0:27:15injured and can't run away and and/or
0:27:17realizes realizes this situation so he
0:27:20just puts a gun to his back basically
0:27:22and shoots him he kills him there on the
0:27:24spot and I think we're supposed to be
0:27:26shocked by this and realize that he's
0:27:27this ruthless killer that would do
0:27:29anything and then he has this redemption
0:27:31story through the film and becomes the
0:27:32guy we like me but I never forgave him
0:27:34for that like like even though he
0:27:37becomes a good guy and says I've done
0:27:38some bad stuff in my time but now I but
0:27:41now I'm you know now I'm a good guy
0:27:43I I never forgot that he shot that
0:27:45behind the back and what he did to him
0:27:48and even even later on when he like you
0:27:50know does a few nice things and realizes
0:27:52the error of his ways it never left my
0:27:55head that he'd done that mean i think
0:27:56maybe they should do should have been
0:27:58quite so bad because you know it's not
0:28:00like i was shocked or you know I'm boom
0:28:03I'm like a sensitive person who like
0:28:05comes courtesy feeling yeah clutching
0:28:08your pearls that there is death on
0:28:09screen but it made me it made me
0:28:12incapable of ever sympathizing with him
0:28:14after seeing him do that the start to
0:28:16someone shoot someone in the back like
0:28:18that and kind of for some reason I was
0:28:20not a big deal is coming out like it's a
0:28:23big deal to me it wasn't but it was
0:28:24significant to me and like his
0:28:26Redemption he was never redeemed for me
0:28:28enough
0:28:29hmm i can totally agree with this and
0:28:30and the thing is I I don't necessarily
0:28:34think that little scene is a big deal
0:28:36and then also the movie blows past it so
0:28:39fast i think it's it's easy to miss
0:28:41because the first time i watched it was
0:28:43unclear to me how the shooting happened
0:28:46and then the second time it was more
0:28:47clear
0:28:48just like I just blinked at the wrong
0:28:49moment right any menu menu miss it just
0:28:51a little bit but i think it does matter
0:28:53because this is all rolled up into i
0:28:58think it's it's emblematic of another
0:29:00problem with the film which i think the
0:29:03movie is doing on purpose but they just
0:29:04do poorly which is I file under the
0:29:07category the rebels are dicks right
0:29:09there's like there's like a bunch of
0:29:11stuff where the rebels are being kind of
0:29:13dicks or things that just don't really
0:29:15work and that I think make the rebels
0:29:18unsympathetic in a whole bunch of ways
0:29:20that causes structural problems with the
0:29:22film and that that little that shooting
0:29:26in the beginning I think would be fine
0:29:28on its own but it's it's connected to a
0:29:31bunch of other stuff that then just
0:29:33doesn't work for me later in the movie
0:29:35this whole part of the film set on Jetta
0:29:38or the town the city of Jeddah might
0:29:40have to say was one of the week of parts
0:29:42of the film for me it felt terribly
0:29:44unnecessary actually other than that
0:29:46help to scoop up some of the characters
0:29:47who were going to follow us for the rest
0:29:48of the film like ninja guy and muscle
0:29:51guy and stuff but the whole thing with
0:29:53forest whitaker's character who sort of
0:29:56that the head of the rebels seem very
0:29:58unnecessary to the film it added nothing
0:30:00it seems like an unnecessary character
0:30:03and unnecessary diversion but also this
0:30:05whole part of the film is the part where
0:30:08the fanservice felt made on too thick
0:30:12and I almost felt like I was being
0:30:13patronized a bit like when the when the
0:30:16bad guys from the mosque ii campaign and
0:30:18make a sudden cameo oh my god like that
0:30:21was really that was unnecessary
0:30:23yeah that was that was so terrible and I
0:30:25hate this kind of stuff because it's
0:30:26like it makes the universe feels small
0:30:29yes the universe universe feels so small
0:30:31and so tiny and it also it's strange
0:30:34could credulity that she's going to bump
0:30:37into the two guys who show up in in a
0:30:38new hope
0:30:39but also because of the way the movie
0:30:41carries on it means not only did she
0:30:43bumped into these guys on this planet
0:30:45but they they also left the planet very
0:30:48shortly like within 30 minutes right
0:30:50they get out of there just entire and
0:30:52where did they go within the span of a
0:30:55couple of days is they go to some
0:30:58backwater planet where Lucas it's like
0:31:00it's too much right the time frame is
0:31:02just too much it's ridiculous that she
0:31:04bumps into these guys there it's it's
0:31:05pointless pointless fanservice yeah and
0:31:09that how that house saying with the
0:31:11bustling crowds and that they cram too
0:31:13much of that in and I was thinking come
0:31:15on guys la is ok i'm on board I
0:31:17understand star wars and and the other
0:31:19little by little things nice but you
0:31:21don't need to go that hard
0:31:23mm which is funny because the fan
0:31:25service that comes later the biggest fan
0:31:27service
0:31:28mm that's works because that's what this
0:31:31was about
0:31:31so some of the huge stuff I loved and I
0:31:35felt really excited about some of the
0:31:37links to New Hope felt wonderful and and
0:31:41really good i was really pleased towards
0:31:43the end of the film there's some great
0:31:44stuff but this early stuff they they
0:31:46went to her they went too hard too early
0:31:48you know that they make it they had
0:31:50their fanservice coming they didn't need
0:31:52to go this hard this early mhm they
0:31:54could have shown more restraint
0:31:55yeah the this so this whole sequence
0:31:57where they're on this this desert planet
0:31:59jetta or whatever that this is one of
0:32:02these things i wanted to see again like
0:32:04how was my memory of it versus the
0:32:06actual thing I felt so strongly that
0:32:08this this whole sequence was unnecessary
0:32:10and it seemed just like it like a
0:32:12pointless diversion that we're going to
0:32:15go to this planet to find a guy who's
0:32:18going to help us find the guy that we're
0:32:20actually looking for ya and I was
0:32:21mentally thinking like you could
0:32:23probably cut that and just have the
0:32:25movie go on but what I didn't realize is
0:32:28that sequence is really long
0:32:31right like i was thinking this this is
0:32:33like 20 minutes but that whole sequence
0:32:35takes us to more than halfway through
0:32:38the movie right like it is it is so long
0:32:43that it it's not like when we discussed
0:32:45the force awakens and we both agree that
0:32:48the weakest part is when they leave the
0:32:50planets and their with han Solo and
0:32:52they're going to fight some giant roller
0:32:55ball squid monsters on the ship right
0:32:58it's like why is this happening and you
0:33:00can you can easily imagine a version of
0:33:02the force awakens where fan does a
0:33:04supercut and they were able to get ready
0:33:06most of that and then you don't even
0:33:07notice in the movie I'm realizing if
0:33:09they cut out what i thought was a
0:33:10pointless diversion you lose like 45
0:33:14minutes of this movie where they're down
0:33:15there on on Jetta doing this thing that
0:33:18I think is totally pointless it's a huge
0:33:20sequence and it's also like it's so it's
0:33:24so convoluted because you blew past what
0:33:27to me is sets up like a fundamental
0:33:30problem in the whole movie which is
0:33:32before we even get down to jetta the the
0:33:35rebels are dicks thing is we we show the
0:33:38rebels capturing the main girl who's the
0:33:41Djinn I think your gentleman like even
0:33:44knows where the characters are
0:33:46pronouncing her name differently the
0:33:47rebels kidnap her from some sort of
0:33:49labor camp it's like it's like a rescue
0:33:52but it feels a lot like a kidnap because
0:33:54the rebels are then taking her back to
0:33:56the rebel base and forcing her to do
0:34:00with thing that she doesn't want to
0:34:02write they just straight-up saying like
0:34:03I will hand you back to the Empire
0:34:05unless you unless you do what we want
0:34:06it's like okay you don't seem like great
0:34:09people right now you know she's she's
0:34:11just passed from one prison to
0:34:13essentially another prison
0:34:15yeah and and like okay the great rebels
0:34:18you like I would like you a lot more if
0:34:20you have a sequence where you were
0:34:22rescuing her from a horrible situation
0:34:24and she wants to help you because of
0:34:27what you've done but it's very different
0:34:29if you're just straight up kidnapping
0:34:30her
0:34:31so here is the actual sequence because i
0:34:33had to write it down this is the plan as
0:34:34explained by the rebels they want to
0:34:37take her to jetta to find Saul Guerrera
0:34:42yeah as far as America yeah who has the
0:34:46pilot and the pilot will take them to
0:34:49her father and they're going to take her
0:34:52father to the Senate for testimony like
0:34:55you've got to be kidding me like we
0:34:57don't need it and and this is like
0:35:00everything in the movie is like this
0:35:02like guys do a second pass on this
0:35:04script just have the daughter know where
0:35:08the father is right just have that you
0:35:10can just have her no and the rebels
0:35:13rescue her and she wants to help but we
0:35:15don't need this and it's like so many
0:35:18unnecessary characters but like okay
0:35:19we're not even trying to find a guy who
0:35:21knows where the guy we're looking for is
0:35:23we're trying to find a guy who has a guy
0:35:26who knows where the guy we're moving and
0:35:29on top of that I almost lost my god damn
0:35:32mind because when they get down to the
0:35:34planet they blow past it so quickly but
0:35:36but the food cassie is and/or he has a
0:35:39little line to her he's like oh he I
0:35:41know and he mentioned some other name
0:35:43like this bounty hunter dude who's
0:35:44working for salt Guerrera like oh I'm
0:35:48going to find this person who's going to
0:35:50bring us to Saul Guerrero who has the
0:35:52pilot right I can't
0:35:54why like why do you need all of these
0:35:57steps it's just it's like I can follow
0:35:59it it's just it's just a straight line
0:36:01but it's it's crazy making that you need
0:36:04all of these steps toys gray toys you
0:36:07need more styles figures I i guess but
0:36:10it's like you have this ridiculous
0:36:11convoluted path for a sequence of which
0:36:15the entirety of it as unnecessary and
0:36:18complex and is it just like I was so
0:36:21uninvolved for the this first hour of
0:36:23the movie I'm like yeah I don't care
0:36:25about any of these people
0:36:27this is like Saul Guerrero like in my
0:36:30mind his is the only character i can
0:36:31vaguely remember because my brain kept
0:36:33changing his name to like Che Guevara
0:36:35every time people were saying and I'm
0:36:37like okay we're looking for a che
0:36:38guevara and it's like okay there's this
0:36:41dude is he crazy like he's a terrorist
0:36:44so should I care about him but he raised
0:36:46our main character but now he seems like
0:36:48he's also he's also a monster
0:36:50she's being forced into this by rebels
0:36:52who are being dicks who by the way are
0:36:55just going to assassinate her father
0:36:57anyway likes what she doesn't even know
0:36:59so it's like there's just nobody to root
0:37:01for there's this really convoluted thing
0:37:03and this is this to me is like the heart
0:37:06of it right here is like complicated
0:37:08mess you could just sweep away and
0:37:10replace with a simpler better movie whoa
0:37:12also just one more thing can make the
0:37:14rebels even less likable if that was
0:37:17possible is they also make them really
0:37:19like bureaucratic and I have lots of
0:37:22meetings and they can never agree on
0:37:25anything and they sit around and
0:37:26committees all the time it's like the
0:37:28one thing you like about the rebels is
0:37:30there like a starfish let's just get the
0:37:32guns out and blow that they have
0:37:33right but now that now they're like
0:37:35their own little mini-set having
0:37:37meetings and disagreements and like cut
0:37:39their crippled by inactivity it's like
0:37:42out like this is the reason rebels form
0:37:47is to get away from the bureaucracy
0:37:48right but like offers starting with the
0:37:50bureaucracy
0:37:51ok what's with all the politics to did
0:37:53George like a snake back into the
0:37:54writing room for that part yeah it was
0:37:56the hat i totally agree that there's
0:37:59things that they're like oh we can't get
0:38:00everybody to agree like you're the
0:38:01rebels like it should be clear that the
0:38:04app the other problem was all this was
0:38:07swirling around our main character gin
0:38:09and we should talk about her at some
0:38:11point because she was completely I
0:38:14didn't like I was not very engaged with
0:38:17her at all like I didn't know I never
0:38:19really i never really sort of like tor
0:38:22understood her story or her
0:38:24transformation didn't do much for me
0:38:25either and she was kind of I mean a lot
0:38:27of our read a lot of people saying you
0:38:29know she carried the film apparently and
0:38:31she was good not you know she's a good
0:38:33actress she did a good job but the
0:38:36character wasn't very well developed and
0:38:38from the start i didn't really feel much
0:38:41for and then when she changed i didn't
0:38:42feel much and so all of this stuff's all
0:38:45of these weird people who are unlockable
0:38:47for various reasons swirling around Gen
0:38:49and Gen I didn't really care about
0:38:51I didn't find an unlikable like some
0:38:52other characters but she was just a bit
0:38:54she was just there as well really how
0:38:56long for the ride
0:38:57yeah i totally agree that this movie she
0:39:00has to be really likable you have to be
0:39:02rooting for her
0:39:03yeah right and i found myself at one
0:39:05point like it that there were three
0:39:07little moments in the movie where I kind
0:39:08of had to laugh but it's but at some
0:39:09point of the movie when I was just
0:39:11mildly distracted and watching it and
0:39:13wants to have will start to like giggle
0:39:15because I kept having this thought of
0:39:16like well she was in prison like maybe I
0:39:19want to hear the Empire story about why
0:39:21these girls in prison because we've just
0:39:24made it really clear that she's been
0:39:25working with his terrorist organization
0:39:28that even the rebels don't like so like
0:39:30maybe she's done some really terrible
0:39:32stuff you know and it's like when you
0:39:34find your mind wandering like I want to
0:39:36know what the Empire thinks about this
0:39:38girl maybe they have a point it's like I
0:39:40think you have not achieved what you
0:39:42want movie which is that I should really
0:39:44be rooting for this girl
0:39:45supposed to wondering like there might
0:39:46be more to her story then we're hearing
0:39:49here yeah well let's let's let's let's
0:39:51let's go back to the transcript for
0:39:52those trials like I want to find out
0:39:53what was going on
0:39:54whereas in that force awakens Daisy
0:39:57Ridley character the lead there
0:39:59yeah like you're just completely
0:40:00enchanted by and like you are you coming
0:40:02out of that film feeling good about her
0:40:04like she's just you just go so I was
0:40:07just so taken with her her character and
0:40:10her story and this one like you know at
0:40:11the end she's on the beach then I'm
0:40:13thinking well yeah exactly thanks thanks
0:40:16for helping out with the plans and but
0:40:18you were a fantastic tool thank you very
0:40:20much
0:40:20moving right along yeah I i agree Daisy
0:40:23Ridley was obviously amazing in in force
0:40:25awakens this girl I have to say I think
0:40:27she was a good actress
0:40:29yeah definitely definitely better than
0:40:30some of the other people i'm going to
0:40:32complain about later
0:40:33yeah but the character itself as written
0:40:36I I felt just again uninvolved with like
0:40:38okay maybe you're a criminal and you're
0:40:41being blackmailed into doing a thing and
0:40:43I don't really care about you like the
0:40:44end two more things on the desert planet
0:40:47and the town of jetta one is we saw much
0:40:52more agile stormtroopers in some of
0:40:55those fights anes and I quite liked it i
0:40:57quite like saying stormtroopers being a
0:40:59little bit more capable steel cannon
0:41:01fodder yeah but they seem to have like
0:41:03special ops stormtroopers ya like like
0:41:05the guys in black was like oh no now
0:41:07we're trying to be serious
0:41:08yeah so so I that was about that but one
0:41:11thing I do not approve of me is seeing a
0:41:14Star Destroyer down at Planet level who
0:41:16that's that seems wrong to me and also
0:41:19it seems like it should be like not
0:41:21technically feasible like they should be
0:41:23built in space and one of the joys of
0:41:25seeing the crash star destroyer in the
0:41:27force awakens on the planet
0:41:29it creates that feeling that the worst
0:41:31possible thing that could happen to a
0:41:32star destroyers of falls down onto a
0:41:34planet because let you know that that's
0:41:36where they crash and die and it just
0:41:37seems it seems wrong to me and it feel
0:41:40it felt like it demeans the awesomeness
0:41:42of stardestroyers to see them down at
0:41:44Planet level that makes them seem a
0:41:46little bit more jokey and also makes
0:41:48them seem less awesome that they can
0:41:50just come down and do that so I didn't
0:41:52like that I didn't like it it's an
0:41:53excellent point it didn't it didn't
0:41:55cross my mind until
0:41:57they were there are many things in the
0:41:58movie we're feeling like there's
0:41:59something wrong with this and I can't
0:42:00quite figure out what and the Star
0:42:02Destroyer when it was just hovering over
0:42:04the city and I thought it just didn't
0:42:05cross my mind is like okay it's fine but
0:42:07the shot where they show it flying away
0:42:09both times i kept thinking like
0:42:11something's wrong about this and I don't
0:42:13know what it is and and I i agree with
0:42:15you like you're right that it feels like
0:42:17the Star Destroyers should be in real
0:42:19trouble if they're ever in the
0:42:20atmosphere
0:42:21yeah and and this this strikes the wrong
0:42:24note by having it so close to the pair's
0:42:26planet's surface knowing that Star
0:42:27Destroyers can come down to a planet is
0:42:29like when you realize that r2 d2 can fly
0:42:32right yeah it's like no no I don't want
0:42:34that to be possible
0:42:35yeah and it's like there are many
0:42:37situations in the other movies where
0:42:38this would be quite useful to do right
0:42:40like it so much I was the flight with
0:42:42the entire I think I'd be having more
0:42:44star destroyers and ground level I think
0:42:46this would solve a lot of problems yes
0:42:49send them had a heart instead of those
0:42:50slow walkers dropping them a hundred
0:42:52miles away from the base and having them
0:42:53slowly trudged to the bites
0:42:55yeah like we just landed Star Destroyer
0:42:57we don't we don't even have to fight
0:42:59just literally landed on the ground and
0:43:01crush the big three they mean they must
0:43:04have one to spare right just knock it
0:43:06out of the sky a saying that happens
0:43:09around this time up in space somewhere
0:43:11is when we first say Grand Moff Tarkin
0:43:14for the first time that first scene
0:43:16where you see him with you know looking
0:43:19like peter cushing the actor who played
0:43:21him in the original film my goodness
0:43:24that was breathtaking how much you look
0:43:27like him and they knew it too when they
0:43:29made it because they some account of
0:43:30what they did but they either did
0:43:31something with the sound of the camera
0:43:33work when we first see his face
0:43:34I was like I almost gasped was so Bo
0:43:36done see now I thought it was google
0:43:39'ish I i have to say when when I heard
0:43:43Grand Moff Tarkin voice I like wow they
0:43:46have nailed the voice of this person
0:43:48yeah right but when they do the reveal
0:43:50it looks it just all i kept thinking of
0:43:55is this is the best video game animation
0:43:57i have ever seen
0:43:58all I'm gonna say is like I could not
0:44:00accept the reality of him in every scene
0:44:02now again like this is an interesting
0:44:04thing because I didn't know he was going
0:44:06to be in the movie and
0:44:07I mean the key to me he obviously looks
0:44:10like just a cgi face right over over the
0:44:13actual actor and it's like they did a
0:44:15really good job with that like I'm not
0:44:18going to deny it's an incredible job but
0:44:21i think they didn't do as good of a job
0:44:24as the movie feels like it is the movie
0:44:27acts like this is totally seamless and
0:44:29no one will ever notice and I felt like
0:44:31man if you're going to do this like you
0:44:32have a great render but but don't have
0:44:35like a full front up shot of him it was
0:44:38just it to me it was really unconvincing
0:44:41and I hated every scene with him maybe I
0:44:43need to say again because I thought that
0:44:44one works so well that I almost thought
0:44:46they did they find someone that just
0:44:48looks like that like a kind of fun and I
0:44:50maybe I wasn't paying enough attention
0:44:51but for male form a gram of talk and
0:44:54work obviously me princess leiden will
0:44:56come to that later but yeah but the but
0:44:58the talk of one did work for me and I
0:45:01was like I thought that was really good
0:45:02anyway yeah but i think this this is
0:45:04just a question of light of how
0:45:06sensitive you are to the stuff and i
0:45:09feel like because I've seen a lot of
0:45:10video games things like he just he just
0:45:12kept reading to me as a videogame render
0:45:15character i just want to say with with
0:45:17target though this this is again you
0:45:20talk about like the the star wars fan
0:45:22service and and talking to me is a good
0:45:25example along with Darth Vader who will
0:45:27get to later of your putting all of this
0:45:30stuff in this movie because we know it
0:45:35from the other Star Wars movies but I
0:45:38just kept feeling like do we have to
0:45:40have targeting here like his is his
0:45:43character in this movie
0:45:45absolutely necessary and and i don't i
0:45:48don't think so
0:45:49like I think you could again do a
0:45:51version of this movie where you have the
0:45:53kind of sniveling power climbing
0:45:56subordinate under Tarkin be the entire
0:45:59roll like I don't think you need the
0:46:01conflict between these two guys
0:46:03I don't think he needs to be there
0:46:05except that it feels like they really
0:46:07want to keep tying this movie to the
0:46:09other movies and so that's why targets
0:46:12here right that's why not like mothers
0:46:15here like that's why a whole bunch of
0:46:16other people are here and I'd and I just
0:46:19kept feeling like they're unnecessary
0:46:21write these people don't need to be here
0:46:23I didn't feel that way about talk and I
0:46:25thought I thought for the rogue one to
0:46:28work it did have to have several
0:46:31connections with new hope like I had to
0:46:33have there had to be a few threads and
0:46:35cables connecting otherwise it would
0:46:37feel like it was just stuck in there
0:46:39like filler between a couple of bricks
0:46:41and not really seamless and I thought
0:46:43having a few different threads worked
0:46:46and I thought he liked the rivalry
0:46:49between him and then Mendelssohn's
0:46:51character wasn't particularly necessary
0:46:53or interesting you but having him there
0:46:55was good because because also made it
0:46:59all so suddenly made his death in New
0:47:02Hope same more significant because when
0:47:05you think about a new hope especially if
0:47:08you're a kid watching he's just a bit of
0:47:09a boring out man and like when he when
0:47:11he dies on the Death Star it's not like
0:47:14it's not like Darth Vader dying is that
0:47:16it's like it's just some old bureaucrat
0:47:17dying but now when you see what he's
0:47:19done before and his association with the
0:47:22deathstone all that but it doesn't view
0:47:24that with a bit more meaning and in a
0:47:26way that worked for me
0:47:27my likes I like seeing him in this film
0:47:29and maybe when i watch again the face
0:47:32will embarrass me a bit but kind of that
0:47:34kind of work for me and I liked it I
0:47:37liked it I liked having him in the film
0:47:38mmm hehe i thought he belonged in the
0:47:40film i thought a film about the birth of
0:47:44the Death Star and the undoing of the
0:47:46death star would have felt wrong without
0:47:48the guy we all know was like the boss of
0:47:50the death star so I'm quite happy was in
0:47:53the film ya again I'd I just think if
0:47:55you're going to have him in there it's
0:47:57the cgi didn't work well enough for me
0:48:00for him to be a major character
0:48:02yeah and I just I just kept feeling like
0:48:05it was ghoulish every time he was on
0:48:06screen and not in a good way
0:48:08one other saying that I thought was very
0:48:09that I like just because I like the look
0:48:12of a was lit the Death Star taking out
0:48:15gender & eclipsing the Sun as
0:48:17same time yeah that was good that was
0:48:18good ok i was showing off but it was
0:48:20thought that was just a lot of just a
0:48:22pretty piece of special-effects I
0:48:24thought that was a really nice little
0:48:25sequence yeah happy i will definitely go
0:48:27along with that I'll go along with that
0:48:29cool alright anymore jetta stuff or
0:48:32should we should we find our way off of
0:48:34general somehow we can get our way off
0:48:36of jetta but i just think it is it gets
0:48:38sometimes i get so many furious notes
0:48:41and Jenna it's just it's just it's
0:48:45because i kept being I kept being amazed
0:48:47at how long the sequence was like that i
0:48:49thought was cuttable and it's like
0:48:50there's so much stuff in here but again
0:48:52another thing that I felt is emblematic
0:48:55of the movie is that they have their
0:48:57this like this very brief scene with his
0:49:00mind slug right that che guevara is
0:49:02using on the pilot to find out what the
0:49:04truth is
0:49:05yeah and it's like okay we've introduced
0:49:07this mind slug and it's to interrogate
0:49:11the pilot the pilot that Saul Guerrero
0:49:13doesn't trust for no apparent reason
0:49:16other than he's crazy and and it's like
0:49:18oh we're going to use this mind slug but
0:49:20it just you might lose your mind
0:49:22afterward and it's like oh it doesn't
0:49:24make him lose his mind he's like a
0:49:25little sleepy for an hour and we just go
0:49:28right on and he's like a totally normal
0:49:29guy for the rest of the movie and that's
0:49:32another thing that feels like why is
0:49:33this here that this scene you could
0:49:35literally cut and it would not affect
0:49:37anything that the mind slug thing never
0:49:40comes back up
0:49:41he's never actually lost his mind you
0:49:43don't do anything interesting with it
0:49:46like I kept thinking what i was
0:49:48expecting to happen is who maybe this
0:49:50pilot who has defected after this mind
0:49:53slug makes him lose his mind for gets
0:49:56that he's defected right in it and
0:49:58actually think that he's still part of
0:49:59the Empire and like has found himself in
0:50:01this crazy situation like that might be
0:50:03something interesting to do but nope
0:50:05it's like we've just introduced this
0:50:06mind slug and we're blowing right past
0:50:08it and it doesn't matter it doesn't
0:50:10affect the plot like we're just going to
0:50:11keep on going and there's just so many
0:50:14things like that it's like so much stuff
0:50:16it's not impossible in the mine slipcase
0:50:19there that something more did happen and
0:50:21got cut but they kind of films himself
0:50:23into a corner where they had to leave
0:50:25some of their instill that does
0:50:27occasionally happen in movies doesn't
0:50:28where they they take out a sequence
0:50:31but they're left with sort of baggage
0:50:32either side of a yeah I can't wriggle
0:50:35out of so i would i would love to know
0:50:36the behind-the-scenes thing but i have a
0:50:38feeling like the first cut of this movie
0:50:41was four hours long
0:50:42right like I know and I mean that quite
0:50:44literally and it's it's it's something
0:50:46that you actually like this you see in
0:50:47some of the behind-the-scenes stuff of
0:50:49the the first of the prequels where the
0:50:51the first cut was incredibly long and
0:50:54and they realize they had a hard time
0:50:55cutting it down to be movie like I just
0:50:57had the same kind of feeling with this
0:50:59like maybe there was a whole bunch of
0:51:00mind slug stuff and it's like I just
0:51:02just get rid of it like everything
0:51:03mostly because we have to we have to
0:51:05jettison so much stuff to get the sound
0:51:06to our running time like we filmed
0:51:08ourselves into a corner but so that mind
0:51:10slug is to me just another example of
0:51:11like thing brought up immediately
0:51:13dispatched with has absolutely no
0:51:15consequence but on Jenna we have we
0:51:17bring up with is then perhaps well by
0:51:20far and away my least favorite person in
0:51:23the whole film which is our blinds ninja
0:51:25dude yeah i love this character and this
0:51:29actor I could not believe how bad his
0:51:31line readings were like I could not
0:51:32believe how ridiculous his character was
0:51:34and it's like blind pointless ninja you
0:51:37don't need to be in this movie I cannot
0:51:39believe that you're here I cannot
0:51:41believe how you're delivering your lines
0:51:43you just you just awful I thought he was
0:51:46so bad so terrible
0:51:48hey smacks of probably being someone
0:51:50who's really famous in other markets and
0:51:52they and having him in the film was a
0:51:53really smart technical move from just
0:51:55finding out who he is
0:51:56yeah that might that might be now he's a
0:51:58Chinese actor martial artist film
0:52:01director producer of this was this was
0:52:03my guess was he has to be a real martial
0:52:05artist because his fighting scenes look
0:52:07like him
0:52:08I'm or haste or he's to help them break
0:52:11the chinese market
0:52:12yeah yeah that that's also a possibility
0:52:13but it i was paying attention during his
0:52:16stunt scenes like that really looks like
0:52:17it's you I think you're really doing
0:52:19this and this is why you're here
0:52:20yeah but-but-but I like a wrote on it
0:52:22but his like his introductory like when
0:52:24he walks across that the battlefield is
0:52:25like I am with the force and the force
0:52:27is with me and I fear nothing because
0:52:29the force wheels at times like that is
0:52:31the worst line delivery I've ever heard
0:52:33from anyone
0:52:35it's like awful and I thought there were
0:52:37a lot of really bad line deliveries in
0:52:38the force awakens it's like everything
0:52:41this guy said every time it's just I
0:52:43felt like he was sitting in
0:52:44lay a table reading for the movie it was
0:52:46just awful i can't believe you're
0:52:48keeping these line readings in and I
0:52:50think the whole purpose of his character
0:52:52was pointless
0:52:53it's like he does nothing that they
0:52:55couldn't just have K to the droid do
0:52:57instead he did bring the force into the
0:52:59film otherwise there would have been no
0:53:01force at all with that yeah he is
0:53:03obviously supposed to be like this sort
0:53:05of Jedi character but i also think it
0:53:07totally doesn't pay off and and it also
0:53:11like causes this conflict like I kept
0:53:13being aware of like okay so let me get
0:53:15this straight
0:53:15there's like a class of priests who are
0:53:18defending the the resources that are
0:53:21used to make lightsabers for the jedis
0:53:23this is happening like three days before
0:53:27a new hope
0:53:29where Harrison Ford is talking about how
0:53:32like I've never heard of the Jedi have
0:53:34travel home with the universe and
0:53:35there's no such thing like but there's a
0:53:37big industrial base here related to Jedi
0:53:39industries like it's I feel like you
0:53:42should have just gotten him out of there
0:53:43and also his connection to the force had
0:53:45no payoff in amazingly when they had a
0:53:48scene where they could have had a
0:53:50perfect for Spain off with him on the
0:53:52beach trying to pull a switch it's like
0:53:53hey maybe the guy who's really into the
0:53:55force could use the Force to pull that
0:53:56switch
0:53:57I know you don't even have this payoff
0:53:58scene i did that's how he walked two and
0:54:01didn't get shot by the lies about
0:54:02because the forsook saved him from all
0:54:04the lights above okay okay okay listen
0:54:06okay we're jumping way to the end of the
0:54:07movie right but it's like I understand
0:54:10so he walks across this battlefield and
0:54:11it goes all the forces with me and I one
0:54:13with the forest and you're supposed to
0:54:14think like oh no the lasers hit him
0:54:16it's like okay I understand that's what
0:54:17you're trying to do but you undercut
0:54:19that immediately when after he does that
0:54:21his w pointless friend then runs out
0:54:25after him and sits up with him in the
0:54:27middle of this field of fire and also
0:54:29doesn't get hit by anybody yeah but
0:54:31that's what had been blown closer to him
0:54:32by that point I know it's literally
0:54:35sitting up he is his his muscle friend
0:54:38is a literal sitting duck right in the
0:54:41middle of a field of fire and it's like
0:54:43it's our is so infuriating so
0:54:46infuriating not cry i'm not i'm not
0:54:48saying their plot house and things that
0:54:50are not believable
0:54:51I'm just saying there was a force payoff
0:54:52he does use the Force to to do something
0:54:55important I think it was totally
0:54:56undercut
0:54:57think it was totally undercut
0:54:58immediately yeah we've also got a movie
0:55:01like he's on he's only for slight he's
0:55:03not a projector I say yeah but he was
0:55:06just also cases like your character is
0:55:08unnecessary and it is doubly highlighted
0:55:10by me that you have like an unnecessary
0:55:11squared friend who's also following you
0:55:14around i was like what are you guys
0:55:15doing here what are you doing here for
0:55:17the love of God great i'm putting my
0:55:18foot down and taking us away from jetta
0:55:20because this was some this was supposed
0:55:23to be a short podcast and I cannot for
0:55:24the life haven't even talked about the
0:55:26terrorist scene right we haven't talked
0:55:28about it out and let's leave Jenna and
0:55:30we might come back to it later because
0:55:32what i really want to know is what you
0:55:34thought of Darth Vader's Mordor Batcave
0:55:37ben mendelsohn though the white-robed
0:55:40daddy finds his way to Martha's bat cave
0:55:44on Mount Doom because he wants to whinge
0:55:47about his job promotion and stuff like
0:55:49that you know is so whiny
0:55:51but anyway what did you think of the
0:55:53fact that darth vader like lives there
0:55:55again from my viewer totally unnecessary
0:55:59scene
0:56:00oh yes it's like you want Darth Vader in
0:56:02this movie if if you if you have to have
0:56:05Darth Vader in the movie i can live with
0:56:07the final scene but but this seems
0:56:10totally pointless to me and it's okay so
0:56:13the guys coming to complain that old
0:56:15grandma target is taking credit for my
0:56:17death star right it's like okay and
0:56:20you're going to win to like Darth Vader
0:56:21about this like is this is the best plan
0:56:24of action right like Oh Darth Vader he's
0:56:26such a sympathetic shoulder to cry upon
0:56:29right now it's like I to Steve Jobs to
0:56:31complain that your chair squeaking at
0:56:33your desk Apple i'm really tired of
0:56:36working on this ipod right like well I'm
0:56:38really tired of having you work for me
0:56:39get out
0:56:40it's such a confused scene because it's
0:56:44also like Vader has summoned him is it
0:56:47the whole scene is confusing i think it
0:56:49just it totally doesn't work and i was
0:56:51so aware that's like okay well you're
0:56:53like here we go here's Darth Vader he's
0:56:55on screen and he just has no presence on
0:56:58screen at all
0:57:00he almost I want someone to make a gif
0:57:02of it when the blu-ray comes out but I
0:57:04was several where that he's almost doing
0:57:06like a little sassy walk when he comes
0:57:08out at first like he's swaying a lot
0:57:11yeah I you can see the lights on his
0:57:13chest like swaying back and forth it's
0:57:15like he's doing a little catwalk thing
0:57:16it's interesting it's very interesting
0:57:18that before I want to talk about his
0:57:20homies planet in a second but the fact
0:57:22you make that point is interesting
0:57:23because i have a really vivid memory
0:57:24when they rereleased the first three
0:57:27films you remember they sort of they
0:57:29kind of jazz them up and redux them and
0:57:31of course of course not even short was
0:57:32when they added all the crap effects
0:57:34maybe it was then know there was like a
0:57:35remastered version that came up before
0:57:37yeah those are and i remember a whole
0:57:38bunch of my friends and I went to see it
0:57:41and a friend of mine who was a bit older
0:57:43than us but a few years who I remember
0:57:46him saying after the film what it was
0:57:48he used to be so intimidated by Darth
0:57:50Vader when he was a kid who and now he
0:57:52just looks at him as really camp and
0:57:54funny and he almost found himself
0:57:56laughing all the time when Darth Vader
0:57:58was on screen because he's such a
0:57:59ridiculous villain and I think that is
0:58:01one of the problems
0:58:02Darth Vader is starting to have our talk
0:58:04about his final scene in the film after
0:58:06which actually quite liked but he does
0:58:08have that problem of being he's so
0:58:11iconic now everyone knows what he looks
0:58:14like and everyone is just staring at all
0:58:16the time he must feel really awkward
0:58:18like how do I move how can I walk
0:58:19without like a piece so scrutinize as
0:58:23the ultimate villain that almost
0:58:24anything he does is gonna look
0:58:25ridiculous and like you said you were
0:58:27looking at him walking and thinking all
0:58:28his walk looks a bit sassy and you're
0:58:30looking at his body language and I
0:58:31thought the way he was holding his
0:58:32fingers when he was doing the choke on
0:58:35ben mendelsohn all wrong
0:58:36totally wrong oh look at rod yeah
0:58:38there's no how to fade should be holding
0:58:39his fingers like every single thing he
0:58:41does is say so it must be the most
0:58:43intimidating job in Hollywood putting on
0:58:46that soak because yeah it
0:58:47it totally it has to be it has to be
0:58:49don't you mentioned the fingers I i said
0:58:52to my wife afterward like in that scene
0:58:54i kept staring at his helmet and end but
0:58:57not just his helmet exactly where his
0:59:00helmet met his shoulders and I was like
0:59:01something is wrong about this
0:59:03I don't are yeah i agree yeah I don't
0:59:06know what it is that curved rubbery bit
0:59:09yeah yeah like it's something about it
0:59:12the neckline yeah his dart favorite
0:59:15outfit yeah
0:59:16does not match up with what i'm
0:59:18expecting was like is it CG is it just
0:59:21the wrong kind of plastic as like I
0:59:23cannot believe that this is the thing
0:59:25that I'm paying attention to in the
0:59:26scene and happy but I couldn't stop
0:59:28looking at the flange at the edge is up
0:59:32it didn't used to have some chain there
0:59:34that held his cape on or something but
0:59:36I'm i am i imagining that
0:59:38yeah that's that's what I was wondering
0:59:39like is the helmet over the Cape is it
0:59:41normally under the cape or is it but
0:59:43even even the texture of the plastic
0:59:45look wrong and it's like given given
0:59:47that we saw cgi target before I was I
0:59:49was actually wondering like is this
0:59:51whole helmet just cgi is that whatever
0:59:53right the string here I could believe it
0:59:55i believe that they're just like at the
0:59:56hell with it will fix it in post right
0:59:58and they just do a cgi Darth Vader
0:59:59helmet
0:59:59helmet
1:00:00right and and and they don't have
1:00:01anybody wants to hang their try i but i
1:00:06agree with you it's it's like Darth
1:00:07Vader almost has become a problem for
1:00:10himself
1:00:10on screen yeah i think this scene really
1:00:13didn't help that in a variety of ways
1:00:15because it just a bunch of stuff really
1:00:18clang wrong for me and i have to say i
1:00:20don't like i'll be very curious to know
1:00:22if you tuned into this but when the
1:00:24movie ended one of the things i wanted
1:00:26to see was who did the voice of darth
1:00:30vader yeah and it was James Earl Jones
1:00:31yeah and I think like I don't know what
1:00:34the hell happened but James Earl Jones
1:00:36can no longer do the darth vader voice
1:00:38correctly I didn't mind that I didn't
1:00:41muffled voice was like a guy i have to
1:00:43say that there was it was the sound of
1:00:45the voice was right but he had a weird
1:00:47like rhythm and III just like man this
1:00:51is just not this isn't working for me
1:00:53uh-huh the flange on your helmet is all
1:00:56wrong your walk was too sassy and now
1:00:58you're your enunciation of the words is
1:01:00just wrong and and so your finger death
1:01:02grip was wrong as well take your finger
1:01:04death grip is misplaced writing like
1:01:06that out that works i love that i spent
1:01:08200 million dollars on this film we're
1:01:10talking about that fight his helmet
1:01:12flange for like yeah but what this is
1:01:14but this is the kind of thing it's like
1:01:16how you have you know a bunch of
1:01:17obsessive nerds are going to watch this
1:01:18yeah and if you're going to have Darth
1:01:21Vader on-screen you have to get it right
1:01:22and i think they did get it right in his
1:01:25final scene but this but this scene was
1:01:27just it just didn't work for me in any
1:01:30way and I felt like it just undermine
1:01:32Darth Vader is a character and didn't
1:01:33have on-screen presence
1:01:35he's talking to a whiny subordinate he
1:01:37delivers like a doctor evil line where
1:01:40he's like try not to choke on your
1:01:42ambition that was terrible it's like
1:01:46he's giggling in his own suit as he's as
1:01:48he's delivering that line it's terrible
1:01:50it was awful but also i'm not
1:01:52comfortable with the fact he has this
1:01:53like clichéd temple on a lava planet to
1:01:57like I don't but that's not where Darth
1:01:59Vader lives for me he lives like in a in
1:02:02an ultra sterile room on a Star
1:02:04Destroyer surrounded by technology and
1:02:07and like he's not he's not he doesn't
1:02:10live in a rural environment
1:02:11he's an open guy now
1:02:13this is one of the few places where i
1:02:17felt a little bit uncomfortable and the
1:02:19reason I felt uncomfortable is it felt
1:02:22like the prequels were bleeding into
1:02:24this movie it was a nod to the prequels
1:02:26and you should not be nothing to that
1:02:27yeah it's like why is he on this is lava
1:02:30planets like he's this is the vader from
1:02:33the prequels is what it feels like who
1:02:36who lives on a comic book lava planet
1:02:38and says no yeah right and and it is
1:02:43just sitting in a like a bath of milk
1:02:46all day long
1:02:47there were a few scenes in this movie
1:02:49where it's like this is happening
1:02:51because of the prequels and as we
1:02:53mentioned in in the the force awakens
1:02:55review there were a bunch of like very
1:02:58clear middle fingers to the prequels in
1:02:59that movie that you know from from my
1:03:01reading of it and it's like we're not
1:03:03getting that were in this movie like
1:03:05that's that's not what's happening this
1:03:06time and I think that's why it's like it
1:03:08diminishes darth vader and disney I mean
1:03:10Disney obviously those those prequels
1:03:12love them or hate them preferably hate
1:03:13them
1:03:14disney has a massive steak in of course
1:03:16of course so you can see what you can
1:03:18see why occasionally they're going to
1:03:19want to give those a little boost and
1:03:21you know keep them alive so yeah I
1:03:23didn't like it but also just didn't
1:03:25think Darth Vader should live in such a
1:03:26clichéd place you know
1:03:28yeah it's just like okay that's why it
1:03:30just it felt very dr. evil to me like
1:03:33this this is this is a caricature of a
1:03:35villain not an actual villain so I could
1:03:37almost just completely pass on the visit
1:03:40to this rainy rocky planet where they go
1:03:42and have this have this where the dad
1:03:44dies this is where on second viewing I
1:03:47went out to get some popcorn here but
1:03:49the book but the problem is this is also
1:03:51the sequence where are two protagonists
1:03:53have their their transformations like
1:03:56you know the most important part of
1:03:58their of their art happens here
1:04:00our-our Stoneheart killer who's supposed
1:04:03to assassinate the dad changes his mind
1:04:05last minute and the reasons that are
1:04:07never explained to us other than he just
1:04:09didn't feel like it with that that's
1:04:12exactly how it read to me like that I
1:04:14don't feel like it today
1:04:15here I haven't got a clean shot and i
1:04:17won't bother ally and but that's his
1:04:19like that's his moment where he you know
1:04:21is we questioning everything about his
1:04:23existence and also our main
1:04:26character gin like who's never really
1:04:28cared about the rebellion and is happy
1:04:31to keep her head down and not get
1:04:32involved in politics not you know I know
1:04:35her dad dies and that suppose that's
1:04:37what changes her but I didn't really
1:04:38spend it feel I didn't feel her I didn't
1:04:40feel her suddenly getting this new steel
1:04:43and this new resolve to defeat the
1:04:45Empire and because there wasn't even the
1:04:47empire that killed her dad it was the
1:04:48rebels so it's kind of like it
1:04:51fair enough if like the Empire had like
1:04:54killed her dad in front of her that
1:04:55would make her think ok I've picked
1:04:57aside now right its kind of rip its kind
1:04:59of her own tape that killed her dad
1:05:01anyway with this business attack because
1:05:03they will bungled their messages and
1:05:04stuff so it's kind of like I don't
1:05:07understand why either character changed
1:05:08at this point really
1:05:10yeah it's yeah you don't understand
1:05:11because there's no good reason given
1:05:14it's like also kept thinking with this
1:05:16scene it also felt a little frequently
1:05:19and ridiculous to me because I kept like
1:05:21sure is convenient that you guys are
1:05:23having this meeting on an open platform
1:05:25in the rain while someone supposed to be
1:05:27sniper shooting you from the hills
1:05:28writes like a it's like you couldn't
1:05:30have a more torrential downpour and you
1:05:33could like this is where you want to
1:05:34have the meeting it's just I know this
1:05:35is supposed to make this scene looks
1:05:36serious but it makes it look ridiculous
1:05:39you're all going to get pneumonia after
1:05:40today and some and some ridiculous and
1:05:43guarded unmonitored the ladder that
1:05:45leads up to the with pro big big bright
1:05:48lights that leads up to the platform as
1:05:50one
1:05:51yeah its total it's totally ridiculous
1:05:53yeah and i agree with you that this is
1:05:55where again i think the the actresses
1:05:58playing gin does a good job but the but
1:06:00the the next five minutes are to me
1:06:03another example of of like the writing
1:06:05is just terrible because it's yes
1:06:08so now she's on the side of the rebels
1:06:11are they just because her father is dead
1:06:13but she knows the rebels are the ones
1:06:17who actually killed her father right she
1:06:19calls them out on that she literally
1:06:22says you guys might as well be the
1:06:24Empire and according to my clock not
1:06:27three minutes later in her very next
1:06:30scene because they cut to somewhere else
1:06:32then they cut back to her she's at that
1:06:34bureaucratic meeting where nobody can
1:06:35agree on things and gives a rousing
1:06:37speech about how
1:06:38they should all be fighting the Empire
1:06:40the Empire so evil and there is
1:06:41literally nothing that has happened to
1:06:44change her mind from her previous lines
1:06:46of you guys might as well be the Empire
1:06:48ok she's on the side of the rebels now
1:06:51because you need her to be not because
1:06:53anything that happened and again it
1:06:55seems like trivially easy to rewrite
1:06:59this to make her be on the side of the
1:07:02rebels by I don't know maybe not have
1:07:05the rebels be the one who killed her
1:07:06father like maybe maybe you could make
1:07:09that change have been medicine door he's
1:07:11already killed her mom kills her dad
1:07:13toes straw that breaks the camel's back
1:07:15it's not that hard guys and makes him
1:07:17even more evil that the thing is i keep
1:07:19getting the feeling that like the
1:07:20director of this movie wanted to do with
1:07:22thing which is he wanted to show like
1:07:25whoo it's not just black and white like
1:07:26everybody everybody shades of gray in
1:07:29this in this war that the that the
1:07:30rebels and the Empire fighting and i can
1:07:33understand that as a a story that you
1:07:35want to do but i think this movie just
1:07:37didn't do it in a convincing way they
1:07:39don't have characters you like who are
1:07:40caught up in this situation and then you
1:07:43just like okay if I don't like the
1:07:44characters and I don't like the rebels I
1:07:47I feel neutral to the Empire because you
1:07:50haven't actually straight-up shown them
1:07:52doing anything really terrible except
1:07:55kidnapping the one guy in the beginning
1:07:56was like I'm just supposed to go will it
1:07:59just it doesn't work i think there's a
1:08:00version of this that you can do but it's
1:08:03like I don't think this successfully
1:08:05pulled off the feeling of like who maybe
1:08:07the rebels aren't always good it just
1:08:09felt like terrible writing is what it
1:08:11felt well I mean an in ben mendelsohn I
1:08:13think you had the perfect actor to
1:08:16achieve what you just described because
1:08:18I've I really read him not just cause
1:08:19it's Australian oh well but I think he's
1:08:21really good at playing characters i have
1:08:23this kind of charming charismatic charm
1:08:26and and knock about like ability but
1:08:28also kind of scary Menace we're not
1:08:30quite sure how unhinged there who don't
1:08:32know if you want him bloodline
1:08:34I've never seen it before as far as i
1:08:35know but i thought i would like he stood
1:08:37he stood out to me as just a very good
1:08:39actor in the movie
1:08:40yeah he's achy and he's perfect for
1:08:43achieving what you wanted to describe he
1:08:44always plays these guys who are
1:08:45interested in but you don't quite trust
1:08:47him and you know that they're like
1:08:48don't end up being a psychopath or
1:08:50something so when I saw he was playing
1:08:52this role I thought this is gonna be
1:08:53great but i think he was really let down
1:08:55by the script and I think he was his
1:08:57character was just as mediocre as all
1:08:59the others when I felt sorry for him
1:09:01like I felt like he had nothing to work
1:09:03with you and I think he'd I don't think
1:09:05he came out of the film with great
1:09:07distinction I thought like he was just
1:09:09surviving on reckoning but they didn't
1:09:11have much to work with a higher I was
1:09:13really disappointed very disappointed by
1:09:15that character you know in almost every
1:09:17way I think talking about this this
1:09:19problem of who do you like there's one
1:09:21scene which to me comes just so close to
1:09:25being ridiculous which is right after we
1:09:29have this disagreement with we can't get
1:09:31we can get the Alliance to all agree
1:09:33that we're going to go after the Empire
1:09:34and get the Death Star plans and we get
1:09:37this totally unconvincing speech from no
1:09:40reason from jen about why we should all
1:09:42be on the same side and do this together
1:09:44thank God you didn't call arousing you
1:09:45got a rousing a minute ago I thought it
1:09:47was the least rousing rousing speech
1:09:49kept saying no it was terrible i also i
1:09:51also love the this so bad she pauses for
1:09:54a moment there's like a shout out from
1:09:56the crowd for behind her looking like
1:09:58what do you propose and somebody else
1:10:00says letters speak right is like but
1:10:02nobody was talking frankly was dead
1:10:05silence but they're acting like there's
1:10:08there shouting over the country was
1:10:09terrible but she gives us this totally
1:10:12unconvincing speech right and of course
1:10:13a bunch of people who are going to you
1:10:15know they're gonna follow her because of
1:10:16her amazing speech are like oh let's
1:10:18let's go off
1:10:19yeah but but the main the main character
1:10:21what's his name again i still can't even
1:10:23remember uh and and or and or whatever
1:10:26Andy right yeah okay so Andy standing in
1:10:29front of a bunch of guys who have been
1:10:31roused by her speech her terrible boring
1:10:33speech yet right and here's what he says
1:10:35he says we've all done terrible things
1:10:39on behalf of the rebellion yet right
1:10:42I have to believe that everything we've
1:10:45done was for a good reason and I
1:10:48couldn't face myself if I gave up now
1:10:51and it's like dude you sound like a
1:10:55terrorist on the edge of being
1:10:57deprogrammed right that like
1:11:00like you you have to believe that all
1:11:03the terrible things you've done for the
1:11:05rebellion are for the right cause it's
1:11:08like you're not going along with her
1:11:09because this is really good
1:11:12you're going along with her because if
1:11:14you don't all the terrible things you
1:11:16have done were just terrible things
1:11:19it's it's like the worst line ever it
1:11:22feels like maybe if her speech had gone
1:11:25slightly differently he would have woken
1:11:27up and join the Empire been like my god
1:11:30these rebels really are just a bunch of
1:11:31terrorists like what am i doing in and
1:11:34like this is why I kept feeling this
1:11:36whole movie like why what why am I
1:11:38wondering what the Empire's actually up
1:11:40to and this is one of those moments like
1:11:42what are all the terrible things not
1:11:45only you but all the dudes standing
1:11:47behind you have done on behalf of this
1:11:49rebellion it was it was it was awful it
1:11:52was awful
1:11:52I mean it's not a new idea is it that
1:11:55the ripples of terrorists and I just
1:11:57killing government contractors and
1:11:58employees and things like that but but
1:12:01yeah that hit home
1:12:02there's a good story to be told with
1:12:05this but i just think this movie just
1:12:07doesn't achieve it and and is ridiculous
1:12:10in a few points but but that his little
1:12:12speech there i think for anybody
1:12:14watching the movie again
1:12:15listen to what he's actually saying and
1:12:18and it's amazing it's like he's on the
1:12:20verge of an epiphany about how he's been
1:12:23doing everything wrong his entire life
1:12:25but he's going to double down on all the
1:12:29horrors he has has committed and go
1:12:31along with this girl to to steal these
1:12:33plans yeah it's unbelievable it's
1:12:35unbelievable it's like I can't I can't
1:12:37believe this is it in the movie so he
1:12:41does double down movement he goes off to
1:12:43this planet i made a couple of notes
1:12:45about this planet that I called it the
1:12:47moldings data plan because when i looked
1:12:49and i thought my goodness it looks like
1:12:51it's set on the mo days and it turns out
1:12:52it was feeling good about who's so I was
1:12:55it yeah so I was quite pleased and more
1:12:57data smile at my favorite place to go
1:12:59yeah it in my notes in my notes I have
1:13:01it as new dubai right that's it yeah
1:13:04actually like i'll get there in dubai
1:13:06now got it yeah there isn't what the
1:13:07motive slapped by the way is has been
1:13:09divided all the buildings and stuff
1:13:10London but and I made a had a few
1:13:12thoughts about
1:13:13and was I thought like a low-lying
1:13:16watery salty planet seems like the worst
1:13:20place where you can keep your archives
1:13:21of data like what
1:13:24why would why would you put all your
1:13:25hard drives which I'll come to in a
1:13:27minute they seem to have all these
1:13:28old-fashioned platter hard drives on
1:13:31this like sea level
1:13:33sandy watery planet anyway I i love the
1:13:37two brothers that this didn't even cross
1:13:39my mind watching this movie but it's
1:13:40like I have spent enough time in hawaii
1:13:43to know that Hawaii is destroyer of
1:13:45electronics
1:13:47yeah I guess this is this is not good
1:13:49plates to keeping your hard drives also
1:13:51glad you mentioned that
1:13:52yeah and I also thought it seems like a
1:13:56bit of a rubbish place to have the final
1:13:58battle like in the speech in place and I
1:14:01I thought it was gonna be terrible for
1:14:02that battle into the 8080 is turned up
1:14:07and having a tease walking around
1:14:10blowing stuff up on out paradise palm
1:14:14tree beach was awesome at worked really
1:14:17well for me that was one of the best
1:14:18things in the film saying those things
1:14:20crunching around in the sand and
1:14:21knocking over trees and that redeemed at
1:14:23like that seems like that the worst
1:14:25place for that whole final battle except
1:14:27for the fact it was awesome for the
1:14:29eighties I thought yes it though this is
1:14:32this is where on my first watching the
1:14:33movie that there's a there's a little
1:14:36thing which made me totally laughs at
1:14:38this battle scene like I get laughed out
1:14:40loud in the theater and then felt bad
1:14:41for it which is like they've landed ten
1:14:43guys on this this dubai multi-use place
1:14:47and when they detonate a whole bunch of
1:14:49charges they show that the technicians
1:14:52have are occurring like all over this
1:14:53island yeah right
1:14:55uh-huh it's like okay there's 10 guys
1:14:58but you also already established that
1:15:00this this island is so enormous you need
1:15:02ground-based horizontal elevators to
1:15:05shuttle people back and forth because
1:15:07its enormous
1:15:08yeah right but within 30 minutes you
1:15:10have dudes covering the whole island and
1:15:12there's explosions everywhere and so I
1:15:13laughed out loud
1:15:14yeah when they were showing the
1:15:15explosions all over the place like how
1:15:17did these guys get there if it's like
1:15:20there's water between they have to get
1:15:22to the central depot and then go back
1:15:23out further to get the other landing
1:15:25pads like it
1:15:26really ridiculous but but moments after
1:15:28that happened and like I i laughed at
1:15:31that ridiculousness
1:15:32when the fighting shows up and I have to
1:15:35agree like when the ads show up it's
1:15:38like okay I'm having fun and this this
1:15:40was the part of the movie that I like
1:15:42the best was like the last three
1:15:44quarters of the battle scenes on the
1:15:47beach it was the only time I felt like I
1:15:49am having genuine unadulterated fun
1:15:52watching star wars movie and I really
1:15:54like that I thought it was great i will
1:15:56depart a little bit from that because my
1:15:57note i right here was I felt like the
1:15:59final battle saying out on the beaches
1:16:02was mindless repetitive and completely
1:16:06charmless hmm and more and one of my
1:16:08problems with it was I lost track of the
1:16:11number of times there was a scene where
1:16:13a stormtrooper or bad he was just about
1:16:15to shoot someone and then they got shot
1:16:17from the side like that happened that
1:16:19happened about ten times and I was
1:16:21thinking gosh how many more times are
1:16:23they gonna do this and then they went
1:16:24bloody did it with the finale at the top
1:16:26of the terror as well
1:16:28oh my god that was awful where where
1:16:30where genes just about to get shot by
1:16:32ben mendelsohn and he gets shot from the
1:16:34side it's like it was almost like they
1:16:36were spitting in my face at that point
1:16:37it was like you thought you thought we
1:16:38don't too many times
1:16:40well cut this we're gonna do it and kept
1:16:41the whole film off as well yeah we've
1:16:43done to an 80 80 and we're gonna do it
1:16:45is like the final the final shot of the
1:16:47final villain guess this is this is
1:16:49going to happen yeah I guess I i do have
1:16:52to clarify that by this point I I don't
1:16:54mean any of the stuff on the actual
1:16:56beaches it's like everything above the
1:16:58beaches iir i enjoyed I enjoyed the
1:17:01other the shots with the x-wings and the
1:17:04TIE fighters flying around
1:17:06yeah right and that that's great ads on
1:17:08the beaches they appear from nowhere
1:17:10just like a hot like don't care just
1:17:12landed there around because they're on
1:17:14the other side of the beach troops
1:17:16actually if you're looking at the
1:17:17geography of the battle is like they've
1:17:18come from the water like that whatever I
1:17:20don't like deadass I don't care at all
1:17:22but just it's cool right it's cool i
1:17:25like seeing them
1:17:26yeah I like seeing x-wings actually
1:17:28engaging with them right instead of
1:17:29having to use your snowspeeders and tow
1:17:31cables
1:17:32all of that stuff was sort of fun i did
1:17:35find it a little bit distracting that I
1:17:36think for continuity reasons it seemed
1:17:38like the x-wings were being piloted by
1:17:41the american association of retired
1:17:43people like all the x-wing pilot was
1:17:45really old and that's like I don't think
1:17:47that's a career where you're you're
1:17:49baking it into your fifties you know
1:17:51like not many grandmas are flying
1:17:52x-wings but apparently this is what we
1:17:54do have now it's like okay what-what it
1:17:57was a secure career that must be flying
1:17:59an x-wing it doesn't look like it on
1:18:02screen but apparently everybody last
1:18:04decades in those pilots seat but but I
1:18:08just think like the shots of it were fun
1:18:10the cinematography was done really well
1:18:12yeah the the like the over-the-shoulder
1:18:14shot of the x-wing coming out of
1:18:17hyperspace into the battle it's like I
1:18:18really like that it just felt fun so
1:18:21that like that is all the stuff that i
1:18:23really like the what did you think of
1:18:25the well it's not really a battle is
1:18:27about this the sequence in the tower
1:18:29where they're actually stealing the
1:18:31plans i was surprised by how low tech it
1:18:33was and I was getting a lot of kind of
1:18:34backblaze hard drive related anxieties
1:18:38and she was taking out those guys that
1:18:40platter hard drive and flopping around
1:18:42on it Bell to hear about a quasar-like
1:18:45boy it's really convenient you have a
1:18:46clip exactly the size for this hard
1:18:48drive
1:18:49I it seems like quite low tech and then
1:18:51that were lapping it up and it was i
1:18:53guess i guess it was just it wasn't you
1:18:55know
1:18:56mcalister's up here here's the thing off
1:18:58one of the things I like about Star Wars
1:18:59is it's like a universe without
1:19:03communications technology yeah right
1:19:05like if you with you watch the original
1:19:07ones like people are constantly
1:19:09uninformed or ill informed about things
1:19:11you know that they don't have Star Trek
1:19:15communicators it seems like it's a world
1:19:17where we have faster-than-light travel
1:19:20somehow and fax machines right but yeah
1:19:23but no news organizations like there's
1:19:25no TVs or anything it's like isn't there
1:19:28some like hot daily newspaper right
1:19:30where you can find out what's going on
1:19:32like nope it's like there's none of this
1:19:33but but i think this is a case of
1:19:36world-building we're like it just kind
1:19:38of works
1:19:39yeah it just it just works and it's like
1:19:41okay for some reason
1:19:43communications in the star wars universe
1:19:45is just difficult to do and out and i'll
1:19:48just go along with that I will totally
1:19:50accept that I'm totally fine with it but
1:19:53then this movie starts breaking it down
1:19:55a little bit because i'm aware of like
1:19:58traffic don't think about it too hard
1:19:59what's happening in the scene like okay
1:20:01wait you're broadcasting the plans
1:20:04okay so yeah you can send the plans
1:20:08wirelessly from the ground to the ship's
1:20:11yeah and then the ships are receiving
1:20:13those plans but then there immediately
1:20:15put onto a little key and it seems like
1:20:18the key is the only place that these
1:20:20exist
1:20:21yeah but you broadcast it like this is
1:20:24not a distance it doesn't seem like it's
1:20:26a narrow band signal is a wide pan
1:20:27signal like the ships are getting it
1:20:29yeah like what i sent it to every ship
1:20:31and every night whatever I put on the
1:20:33web
1:20:34put it put on youtube yeah it's like so
1:20:36you've received the plans but they're
1:20:38not in the ship they're only on this
1:20:40little card
1:20:41yeah and it's like and you guys haven't
1:20:43signed up for backblaze like that like i
1:20:46just it bothers me because it becomes a
1:20:49moment of you want these characters on
1:20:52the ground for the end of the movie so
1:20:55how do you get them on the ground and
1:20:57the plans in the air
1:20:58this is how but it introduces something
1:21:01that now messes with this idea of in the
1:21:03star wars universe communication
1:21:04technology is terrible
1:21:06like I would have much preferred if they
1:21:08did something even I mean maybe even
1:21:10dumber and lower tech but like
1:21:13physically take the plans off-planet
1:21:16right have a little cannon and launch
1:21:18them into outer space have a droid take
1:21:19them up or something but I don't like
1:21:21that like we're using a satellite dish
1:21:23to just broadcast them its it doesn't it
1:21:28doesn't ring right for the universe for
1:21:29me and it starts messing with all kinds
1:21:31of other stuff like what how is it how
1:21:33is it so hard with these plans to keep
1:21:35them like it's leave them as physical
1:21:38plans that's totally fine but it
1:21:39requires rewrites for how is this how is
1:21:42this going to end and it just it really
1:21:44felt to me like they just want to keep
1:21:45the plant the characters on the planet
1:21:48this is what we're just going to do
1:21:49don't think about it too hard because it
1:21:51won't make any sense if you do so the
1:21:53cat and a big character we haven't
1:21:54spoken about yet is the repro
1:21:56grand Imperial Droid k2s oh who follows
1:22:01a hero's around all over the place
1:22:03mm what did you think of that character
1:22:06ok
1:22:07overall I actually quite like k2 but i
1:22:12think this was in no small part a side
1:22:14effect of I've got nobody else to like
1:22:17yeah right
1:22:18it's like if you took k2 and put him in
1:22:21almost any other movie i would be super
1:22:23annoyed by this robot but in this one I
1:22:25felt like I like k to his his death
1:22:28scene was the only moment in the whole
1:22:31movie that registered emotionally for me
1:22:33yeah i was like i am sad that he has
1:22:36died right like this is a sad moment
1:22:38this is what art is supposed to do it is
1:22:40supposed to invoke an emotional feeling
1:22:42and I've been sitting here for this two
1:22:46hours feeling nothing k2 dies I feel sad
1:22:50about it sounds like success in that
1:22:53part movie but they had just a lot of
1:22:56snarky stuff with k2 that I felt was was
1:22:59too much like what did you think i agree
1:23:02that the sort of the selfless death of
1:23:05kato was probably behind only like
1:23:06emotional moment in the whole film not i
1:23:09had problems with the believability of a
1:23:14droid in the star wars universe and
1:23:17being capable of humor and sarcasm and
1:23:21all those things I don't like that's
1:23:23never something we've been taught that
1:23:25simply been shown in Star Wars really I
1:23:28feel like c-3po does that though like
1:23:29c-3po makes jokes
1:23:31yeah but c-3po c-3po seat we laugh at c3
1:23:34PA there maybe you're right maybe you're
1:23:36right we don't laugh with c-3po c-3po
1:23:39isn't deliberately funny
1:23:40c-3po is funny because we see the humor
1:23:43in it
1:23:44c-3po is completely unaware of the fact
1:23:46that he's funny
1:23:48whereas k2 is like deliberately
1:23:50sarcastic and i'm sure it's like a
1:23:52problem with his reprogramming and maybe
1:23:54they're at emotion ship somewhere maybe
1:23:56like it's funny that he just says
1:23:58everything he thinks and that i can
1:24:00imagine a droid doing that i can imagine
1:24:02a droid having this kind of verbal
1:24:04diarrhea and just being tactless but
1:24:08yeah but Katie goes beyond that k2 like
1:24:10is deliberately sarcastic and funny cat
1:24:13back at the start with k to this is the
1:24:15probability that you're gonna get killed
1:24:16by her with that blaster is like eighty
1:24:18percent or whatever like what it's very
1:24:20high
1:24:20it's what katie says that's funny and
1:24:23that's k2 doing what a robot would do
1:24:24and just not having that attacked to not
1:24:27say it but then as the film goes on you
1:24:30know it becomes more deliberately
1:24:31sarcastic and more human and little
1:24:34didn't quite work for me but you're
1:24:35right you've got no one else to like no
1:24:37one else in the film is ever funny
1:24:39effort huh well I'm never had thought
1:24:42about this until now but i'm trying to
1:24:44think of any point in the film when gene
1:24:46or and/or are funny and jokey or fri
1:24:50like they're not funny pointless ninja
1:24:52guy makes a joke about is your foot okay
1:24:55when he's taking out a bunch of
1:24:56Stormtroopers yeah i guess those 2i
1:24:58guess those two Ninja Gaiden muscle
1:25:00supposed to be a bit of light relief but
1:25:02right but they're they're so pointless
1:25:04an awful
1:25:05not that you can't really read for them
1:25:07but they sort of joke but even then it's
1:25:09very little
1:25:10yeah so I'm in kato is the only source
1:25:12of human in this film
1:25:14whereas you know in glory days of styles
1:25:17we got hand silo and two-backer and
1:25:20layer he so sassy and all that stuff
1:25:22we've got like multiple sources of
1:25:24levity in here we've got ya a robot who
1:25:26I don't believe can be funny so so
1:25:28you've got to like k2 almost out of
1:25:30necessity
1:25:31yeah that that's exactly and it's like a
1:25:33k2 was in the the original trilogy is I
1:25:35feel like I most certainly are
1:25:36I would be annoyed by him but here he's
1:25:39like a lifeboat right like oh thank
1:25:41goodness the the thing is there is I
1:25:45mean talking about a whole bunch of the
1:25:46the like callbacks and and fanservice
1:25:49stuff funny you mention that line about
1:25:51k2 because the thing I really liked
1:25:53about him is is early in the
1:25:56introduction that he has exactly that
1:25:57scene where you know the two of them are
1:25:59going to go off to I don't know whatever
1:26:00some some planets subtitled on the
1:26:02bottom of the screen seven and he says
1:26:05you know that would you like to know the
1:26:07probability of her using that weapon
1:26:09against you right and and he says no and
1:26:13i love that he he says its high it's
1:26:16very high right as as he's looking way
1:26:18and he does a little hand gesture and
1:26:20here's where I think like this is good
1:26:22because it's connected to the other
1:26:25movies without having him just do the
1:26:28same thing that c-3po does yeah right
1:26:31he doesn't like over its ninety-seven
1:26:32percent actually like I love the fact
1:26:35that they do this it makes him feel
1:26:37droid like but his own person right that
1:26:41he's like alright you stupid human like
1:26:43it's really high i'm not even going to
1:26:44specify but she's gonna shoot you with
1:26:46that gun yeah well so much because he
1:26:47didn't want to know so he's almost not
1:26:49allowed to tell him but yeah you can
1:26:51stare tell him it's I yeah exactly but
1:26:53later on it's like oh you have to do the
1:26:55c-3po thing when you're in the canyon
1:26:57and he's like always we have a twenty
1:26:58percent chance of failure right now like
1:27:00now we have a thirty-seven percent
1:27:01chance of failure it's like then it just
1:27:02feels like you're just copying the other
1:27:04movies
1:27:05yeah and-and-and I don't like it and I
1:27:07thought that little k2 moment I just I
1:27:09loved and I thought if you could do this
1:27:10consistently with him throughout the
1:27:12rest of the movie it would be great but
1:27:14they they don't I do have to say the
1:27:16other reason why he's very likeable is
1:27:18the animation that they do with his eyes
1:27:21i think is fantastic and i would love to
1:27:24see behind-the-scenes thing because I i
1:27:26feel very confident that they they
1:27:29looked at a bunch of like animals like
1:27:32dogs or chimpanzees because they keep
1:27:34having him do this like look at you look
1:27:37away thing look down like his I
1:27:39animation even though it's so limited
1:27:42I feel like they're really able to
1:27:44provoke like a a very particular
1:27:48emotional response to him with that so I
1:27:50think like the animation on him what was
1:27:52was really good and it's another reason
1:27:54why like when he dies it is it is sad
1:27:57because you you have this kind of he's
1:28:00different but likable and he's been
1:28:02animated in a very good way i thought so
1:28:04should we push towards the end of the
1:28:07film then who might as well considering
1:28:10this podcast as I can end up being about
1:28:11as long as the film if we're not careful
1:28:13i did want to say one thing actually
1:28:14before we talk about the very far away
1:28:16and that is the rebel flate when it
1:28:18attacks the entrance to the gate one of
1:28:21my problems with the rebel fleet here is
1:28:24suddenly seems much more capable than I
1:28:26remember
1:28:27mm like they always the rebel fleet
1:28:29always seemed terribly under power
1:28:31word and and liked are hiding to nothing
1:28:34but they seem like a rude dominant force
1:28:36in a lot of this battle when they're
1:28:37ready and not many of them are getting
1:28:38taken out and that the Empire seemed
1:28:41really scared of them
1:28:42I felt like the rebels suddenly seemed
1:28:44like a more powerful than I remembered
1:28:47in this final battle who like they
1:28:48seemed almost too good i will agree that
1:28:51there's a shot that I think that is is
1:28:52poorly done where it seems like there's
1:28:55maybe 15 x-wings frankly like the red
1:28:59gold and blue leaders right each you
1:29:02have maybe five x-wings with them and
1:29:04they show a shot of hundreds of thai
1:29:07fighter is pouring out of of one of the
1:29:09ships
1:29:10yeah it's like the x-wings are holding
1:29:12holding their own pretty well yes like
1:29:13okay I mean maybe this is why all of
1:29:16these pilots are sold is because they're
1:29:18the best in the universe rather just
1:29:19fantastic at what they do
1:29:21yeah but it seems a little too
1:29:23outnumbered and and maybe you could just
1:29:25pretend that the Empire's not super
1:29:27concerned about protecting this base
1:29:29because there's a shield generator
1:29:30around and they think it's fine
1:29:32yeah like but instead yeah it's it's
1:29:34like those x-wing pilot are too good
1:29:36they're way too good for the numbers
1:29:37that you're seeing on screen
1:29:39the thing that drove me crazy and this I
1:29:41think is a side effect of like you have
1:29:42too many characters is in the battle
1:29:45sequence we have our troops on the
1:29:47ground
1:29:48what is their objective we want to get
1:29:49the plans okay great
1:29:51the plans have to be beamed off of the
1:29:53planet understandable i don't like it
1:29:55but it's understandable
1:29:56ok the shield's blocking our
1:29:58transmission so now we need our pilot to
1:30:02tell the rebel fleet up above to take
1:30:04down the shield's what the hell else is
1:30:07the rebel fleet doing right like if the
1:30:10rebel fleet has come to this planet
1:30:12their explicit goal is to provide air
1:30:15support for the troops on the ground but
1:30:17there is a shield between them and the
1:30:19troops
1:30:20what else would they be doing except
1:30:22trying to take down the shield and get
1:30:23down to the surface like they can't
1:30:26possibly have any other goal except to
1:30:29get may be slaughtered by the capital
1:30:30ships that are up there like just
1:30:32hanging around its it was crazy making
1:30:35to me and it felt like it's just a side
1:30:36effect like oh right we brought this
1:30:38pilot character along who again i think
1:30:39is entirely unnecessary like most of the
1:30:41characters here we need to give him
1:30:43something to
1:30:44do ya so he has to be involved in this
1:30:48account like a Rube Goldberg machine of
1:30:51we need to get the master switch to send
1:30:53the signal to talk to the fleet to tell
1:30:55the fleet to do the thing that's the
1:30:56only thing that they're doing
1:30:59it's it's it's bothersome and again I
1:31:02think it's a side effect of the terrible
1:31:03writing yeah why can he talk to the
1:31:05flight but the plans can't get through
1:31:07the show is there something special
1:31:08about his ship or the that's which I
1:31:11think about yeah exactly it's like this
1:31:12doesn't doesn't even make sense if you
1:31:14think about it too long right against
1:31:16it's like the data transmission problem
1:31:17here of like over monkeying around with
1:31:19how communications work and I feel like
1:31:21all of the writing problems about the
1:31:24rebels are dicks
1:31:25I have no one to root for I'm wondering
1:31:28if maybe the Empire is right about these
1:31:29terrorists
1:31:30I feel like it was really for me summed
1:31:33up in one moment of the movie where I
1:31:35did have a little bit of an emotional
1:31:36reaction and it was the totally wrong
1:31:39emotional reaction and it's when they
1:31:41have the rebels get the Hammerhead ship
1:31:43to make that the disabled Star Destroyer
1:31:48crash into another star destroyer and
1:31:50crash into the shield generator
1:31:52yeah i was watching that scene and all I
1:31:54kept thinking of is god there's a lot of
1:31:56people in those ships right that's like
1:31:59I am feeling bad for the Empire in this
1:32:01moment and like this is the wrong
1:32:03emotional reaction to be having I I
1:32:06don't want to be having this emotional
1:32:08reaction and what's even weirder is the
1:32:10music choice is sort of a sad song in
1:32:13this moment and it's it's like I know
1:32:16this is not how I am supposed to be
1:32:18feeling but like I have been led here by
1:32:21all of the mess that has occurred before
1:32:24this so that in what's supposed to be a
1:32:27moment of triumph I am having the exact
1:32:30opposite emotional reaction like
1:32:31thousands of people are dying in those
1:32:34ships right now
1:32:35good job rebels with with your suicide
1:32:37shipwright ramming into the side of them
1:32:39it was that that to me is like the
1:32:41pinnacle of like I am reacting to this
1:32:43movie in the wrong way because the
1:32:45writing is terrible
1:32:47it's the music was not as good yeah I
1:32:50think it was fun to me it was a little
1:32:53bit unremarkable I I didn't notice it
1:32:56very much
1:32:57you know so wasn't it wasn't bad or
1:32:58anything the only time I noticed it was
1:33:00in this in that scene where I felt like
1:33:02this music is wrong
1:33:04otherwise it just felt like background
1:33:06music but I wonder if it suffered from
1:33:08not having John Williams this time okay
1:33:11didn't I didn't realize that he wasn't
1:33:12doing the music this time so they have
1:33:13somebody else obviously they used a few
1:33:14little squirts of his original stuff at
1:33:17certain times and those are times when
1:33:19you're like a stowers that most of the
1:33:21most of it was written by someone else
1:33:22and me like I don't want to kick someone
1:33:25for not being john williams because it's
1:33:27pretty hard for you have to follow that
1:33:28but I do think i'll show it i do you
1:33:30think it showed that that wasn't quite
1:33:32as good
1:33:33I didn't know that it wasn't John
1:33:35Williams and I made a note in adjoining
1:33:37the film saying the music's not as good
1:33:39in this one as it was even in the
1:33:40terrible prequel soon i was noticing the
1:33:43music wasn't as good and then I looked
1:33:44later on and found out that someone else
1:33:46said had done it
1:33:47hmm so anyway our heroes down on the
1:33:51ground get death start you know they get
1:33:53they get blown up and thanks for the
1:33:55plans you did the job that was very
1:33:57noble and then we get the plans on to
1:34:00these the rebel fleet and the rebel want
1:34:02to get away and the darth vader turns up
1:34:04at just the right moment with his
1:34:05reinforcements and stops anyone being
1:34:07able to get away except perhaps this one
1:34:09ship with the plans and then we have
1:34:11Darth Vader get onto the get onto the
1:34:14ship and he's almost like man for men
1:34:15now trying to get his hands on this on
1:34:17this data card of the plants almost like
1:34:19a relay baton being passed move from one
1:34:22person to the next and our ladies
1:34:23chasing the moon
1:34:24what did you think of that same i liked
1:34:28it i I really liked it
1:34:31I great yeah it was awesome okay yeah it
1:34:33was super fun to watch
1:34:35yeah but it also felt like an
1:34:37introduction to a video game or
1:34:38something like it again didn't feel like
1:34:40it needed to be in this movie but I will
1:34:43totally creep like watching Darth Vader
1:34:45slice through a bunch of rebels you know
1:34:48slice through a bunch of terrorists may
1:34:50be right who knows it was great i
1:34:53thought it was really well done and this
1:34:54is like what Darth Vader should be he
1:34:56feels menacing yeah he's moving forward
1:34:59there's there's a clear objective right
1:35:01he's trying to get the one copy of the
1:35:03data that they have they don't have a
1:35:04lot of the ships he's kind of a bit
1:35:06angry and stuff and yeah yeah it's it's
1:35:09I really liked it
1:35:11I do think again though that it's like a
1:35:14little bit of the prequel this here
1:35:15where it's like it's the different Darth
1:35:17Vader it's the clearly more powerful
1:35:20force using Darth Vader from the
1:35:22prequels because it's like oh well yeah
1:35:24in her in a new hope he's not like
1:35:27taking out six guys at once by clenching
1:35:30his fists
1:35:31yeah that that's not the Darth Vader who
1:35:32shows up later so i think that scene
1:35:34causes problems but i do have to say
1:35:36like in isolation
1:35:38I just love this sequence i think this
1:35:40sequence is great it was a good sequence
1:35:42yeah it's one of the best things in the
1:35:43movie yeah it's really enjoyable the
1:35:46door closing right and and the rebel
1:35:48ship getting away that shot of it
1:35:50falling away from the main ship i really
1:35:52like that I like that as a reveal yeah I
1:35:55still feel like it causes problems but
1:35:56it was it was just very and very
1:35:58enjoyable
1:35:59well I thought it was great this if I
1:36:00just saying I've been thinking a lot
1:36:02about it's funny because one of the one
1:36:04of the fundamental problems this film
1:36:06has that we haven't even mentioned but
1:36:07it's that it's the elephant in the room
1:36:09is that we all pretty much know how it's
1:36:11going to end
1:36:12yeah because because we have to know how
1:36:13it's going to end and yet the funny
1:36:15thing was even though I knew that dad
1:36:16later wasn't going to stop the ship and
1:36:18get the plans that same still had some
1:36:20tension and some thrilling this to it
1:36:23because of the desperation of the men
1:36:24who were getting killed it was like it
1:36:26reminded me of a saying in like
1:36:27submarine movies when the submarines
1:36:29filling up with water and they're
1:36:30shutting doors and people are trying to
1:36:31not run on a submarine I had a real kind
1:36:34of human tension yeah there was there
1:36:36was real visceral miss to it yeah
1:36:38actually actually made me think of it
1:36:39like a scene in watership down where a
1:36:41bunch of rabbits are trying to escape a
1:36:42Warren that they're in
1:36:43yeah it's the say it's the same thing
1:36:45like narrow confined space clear problem
1:36:48obstruction right now i can understand
1:36:51it
1:36:51emotionally it was it was great and I
1:36:53also see the problem with how capable
1:36:56Darth Vader is their man he's he's doing
1:36:59he's doing amazing things and this is
1:37:01the same guy that two or three days
1:37:04later is going to have sort of an
1:37:05old-age pension a fight with really went
1:37:08beyond the data where these two slow
1:37:10lumbering out there so I do see that
1:37:13problem but even though Darth Vader was
1:37:16clearly too agile and he's doing things
1:37:18that are two amazing he does kind of
1:37:20have a kind of lumbering oaf ish
1:37:23movement to him even
1:37:24he's doing it so even though he's a bit
1:37:26too athletic and it does it does break
1:37:28the continuity they didn't overdo it
1:37:31they didn't have him doing Darth Maul
1:37:33karate car with yes and he there was a
1:37:35kind of Hawking lumbering get out of my
1:37:38way Boom Bang I'm a big-time Haggard the
1:37:41giant trying to get these plans exactly
1:37:44they went too far but they didn't go too
1:37:46far by too much right and it kind of it
1:37:48kind of worked I i completely agree
1:37:50right he's like a Frankenstein's monster
1:37:52feel to him yeah which is again why the
1:37:54scene works he's not agile yeah he is he
1:37:57is a tank coming to crush you
1:37:59yeah that's what yeah yeah so that
1:38:01worked and anyway he has a great saying
1:38:04is the shit gets away and he's there in
1:38:05the airlock having missed it by that
1:38:07much
1:38:08and then we have the final few seconds
1:38:10where the plans are handed to our
1:38:13princess layer in her white robe and we
1:38:15turn around we see her face and she says
1:38:17her cheesy cheesy line at the end of my
1:38:20good what did you think of those find a
1:38:22few seconds then is awful just really
1:38:24awful and I kind of dropped the ball
1:38:26didn't know they did a in much the same
1:38:28way revenge of the sith mucked up their
1:38:30death later ending
1:38:32I mean surely the way princess leia
1:38:33looked freaked you out talk about
1:38:35uncanny valley
1:38:36yeah it's yeah it was it was that
1:38:38there's there's a few problems with this
1:38:39thing is like okay so so this whole
1:38:41sequence with Vader is amazing and I can
1:38:44see why they want to end the movie on
1:38:45this
1:38:46yeah but I kept thinking doesn't this
1:38:47belong in the space battle rightly that
1:38:50this seems like it should come sooner in
1:38:53the movie but it also just had this
1:38:55problem of like Laius seems really happy
1:38:58in this shot it's like all she's getting
1:39:01away like she scampering away and she's
1:39:03she's clutching hope in her hands and it
1:39:05feels emotionally wrong it's like wait
1:39:09you're the princess like who knows how
1:39:11many people have just died here
1:39:13yeah it yeah I mean she's just saying
1:39:15she's just saying several ships full of
1:39:17all her colleagues yea crash into a Star
1:39:20Destroyer probably at probably a
1:39:22thousand people she's facebook friends
1:39:23with have just died in front of her and
1:39:25she's like who you know
1:39:27yeah it's like got away right yeah and
1:39:30and it's like this layer does not feel
1:39:31like the layout on Hoth who was trying
1:39:34to get everybody out of the base before
1:39:36her
1:39:36yeah this is a layer who's who
1:39:38zipping off to have a fun adventure in
1:39:40the next three movies
1:39:41yeah and I just I didn't like it i think
1:39:43the line is is really clunky it doesn't
1:39:45work and she looks terrible
1:39:48I just don't think they need to do it
1:39:50and it's what it strikes to me as is
1:39:52like the leia on screen is supposed to
1:39:54be reflecting emotionally what they want
1:39:57the audience to feel right and and
1:39:59that's why I think this scene comes at
1:40:01the end as opposed to in the actual
1:40:03battle itself is because this is what
1:40:06they want you to leave on right what
1:40:07they don't want you to leave on is a
1:40:09nuclear holocaust where everybody dies
1:40:12everybody who have just been following
1:40:13for the last two hours and supposedly
1:40:15caring about from from our from a guy
1:40:17and a girl and a robot and a ninja and
1:40:20everyone everyone's just everyone's dead
1:40:22yeah and we're supposed to go whoo yeah
1:40:24yeah but and I I'm convinced that's why
1:40:27the movie ends this way and and that's
1:40:29also why they have layer react as they
1:40:32want the audience to react not as the
1:40:35actual character of Princess Leia would
1:40:37react and and that's what I thought as
1:40:40bad ending really really bad anything
1:40:43i'm also surprised that they would want
1:40:44the audience to feel that way i don't
1:40:46know i thought it should be a bit more
1:40:48bittersweet
1:40:48well i mean ok so I I'm convinced this
1:40:51is like a like a marketing decision
1:40:54right that they want people to walk out
1:40:57of the movie feeling like they just had
1:40:58an amazing adventure and I mean I have
1:41:01to say my my second viewing there
1:41:04happened to be a bunch of families with
1:41:05with kids in the theater I was watching
1:41:08how they walked out and everybody seemed
1:41:10to walk out like oh boy that was fun fun
1:41:12adventure right in a way that I think
1:41:14even children watching a movie that ends
1:41:16in a nuclear holocaust where everybody
1:41:18dies they probably wouldn't have liked
1:41:20left out of their seats and then like
1:41:21fun excitement I feel like this is a
1:41:24committee decision that we don't want
1:41:26people to go into a Star Wars movie and
1:41:28leave on a downer right we want them to
1:41:31feel like you're leaving the theater on
1:41:33a high like wasn't that a rip-roaring
1:41:34adventure that you just had think I say
1:41:36the empire strikes back then we have but
1:41:38that's what makes it such a great movie
1:41:40that's the biggest one of the best
1:41:42movies ever made
1:41:43yeah but it's it's like but you can't
1:41:46produce that consistently yeah right and
1:41:50so I think that's why this occurred
1:41:51even if the the downer ending i think
1:41:54would have made the film stronger and I
1:41:56think that's why that's why it didn't
1:41:58happen
1:41:59how would you invented the film and
1:42:01that's a tough question because I
1:42:01haven't thought of an ass of myself yet
1:42:03but I'm just thinking what could you
1:42:04have done differently could you have had
1:42:06the rebel blockade runner get away and
1:42:08then going back down to the planet and
1:42:10had the tidal wave and that's kind of
1:42:12what I'm thinking right is like you see
1:42:14that the plans have made it out but but
1:42:16you do end with a big explosion where
1:42:19everybody dies but the only problem with
1:42:21that is there the darth vader chasing
1:42:24the plans saying was so good I almost
1:42:27couldn't have taken much more after that
1:42:28like if I'd I like that was a real
1:42:31rollicking way to end the film like it
1:42:34was a real thrill and and things ended
1:42:38so quickly after that maybe see princess
1:42:39life for 10 seconds and bang but ships
1:42:41guard and it ends like so in some ways
1:42:43that kind of high-energy ending did kind
1:42:45of work it was just the cheesy line and
1:42:48the distracting way that Princess Leia
1:42:49looked at ruined i would have been quite
1:42:52happy for the movie to end with the
1:42:54blockade running gag away and Darth
1:42:55Vader at the airlock and that would
1:42:58segues nicely into New Hope but just the
1:43:01cheese of the line
1:43:02yeah and the destruction of the face and
1:43:05and did all of that
1:43:06yeah and and her wink at the camera as
1:43:08she takes off right too much
1:43:12yeah it's i would i would have a much
1:43:16more down or ending but I i agree with
1:43:17you like I can understand you know if i
1:43:20was working at Disney and on the
1:43:21committee that's making these movies
1:43:23like you have a bunch of things that
1:43:24you're trying to do and i would probably
1:43:25under the circumstances decide to do it
1:43:27this way right whereas if you're asked
1:43:29me like how would I end this movie it's
1:43:30it's like well this is involved with
1:43:33questions about how i would structurally
1:43:34rewrite almost every single thing that
1:43:36occurs right yeah because like what
1:43:40happened like how would how would you
1:43:42fix this disaster in the last 30 seconds
1:43:45it's like you know what they did what
1:43:46they did was flying because there's
1:43:47nothing that you're really gonna do
1:43:48that's gonna going to fix all the
1:43:50problems that I that I have
1:43:51what's your sort of course you're
1:43:52closing thoughts then I mean what are we
1:43:54what have we done
1:43:55what's happened my closing thoughts are
1:43:57the feeling I had on my way to the
1:44:00theater last night when i was going to
1:44:03watch it which was I was happy to see a
1:44:06Star Wars movie and and more than that I
1:44:08was happy
1:44:10on my way to the theater to have the
1:44:13feeling of the pressure is off in a
1:44:17sense that we know that from now until
1:44:22the end of copyright protection which
1:44:26will be at the same time as the heat
1:44:27death of the universe
1:44:28disney is going to be releasing Star
1:44:30Wars movies some of them will be good
1:44:32and some of them will be bad but I feel
1:44:35like after force awakens we've all had a
1:44:37bit of a catharsis and I can go see a
1:44:41Star Wars movie and if it is bad if I
1:44:44don't like it that's fine
1:44:46there will be more star wars movies and
1:44:49while that makes Star Wars less special
1:44:51it does it does mean that it becomes
1:44:54like any other movie where it's like
1:44:55well you don't have to see bad movies
1:44:57and you can just rewatched the movies
1:44:59that you think are good while I think
1:45:01it's pretty clear that i did not like
1:45:03this movie I'm fine with that
1:45:05I don't like I'm fine with that because
1:45:07there's going to be more to come
1:45:09and some of them I expect we'll be good
1:45:11and some of them I expect we'll be bad
1:45:13but it feels like the pressures off
1:45:15what is it about force awakens that has
1:45:17created that scenario you could have
1:45:19said this before force awakens are they
1:45:21going to make a bunch of more star wars
1:45:22films it doesn't matter anymore what was
1:45:24it about that film that created this new
1:45:27scenario
1:45:28well I think we do want to have a
1:45:30conversation about force awakens again
1:45:31but now is not that time I i was i will
1:45:35unless you want to go for another two
1:45:36hours because i actually have a whole
1:45:37bunch of thoughts but i will just say
1:45:39that force awakens the feeling was I am
1:45:42seeing a Star Wars movie and I'm really
1:45:44liking it and I can see it multiple
1:45:45times in the theater and I'm happy right
1:45:47now I'd like I've had that good
1:45:48experience and it was simply just the
1:45:50confirmation that like this could happen
1:45:53again okay right there can be good Star
1:45:55Wars movies they won't always be
1:45:57terrible
1:45:57that's what is that that's that's why I
1:46:00feel like force awakens was catharsis so
1:46:02force awakens basically made it clear
1:46:05that those first three films in the
1:46:07seventies and eighties who were like a
1:46:10one-off they there there is the route
1:46:13good style was movies you know because
1:46:15then there were three terrible ones in a
1:46:16row
1:46:16calgon with those three the only ones
1:46:18we're going to say right now force
1:46:19awakens just proved at first first three
1:46:21weren't fluke or you know
1:46:24yeah it's not it's not that it's not
1:46:25that force awakens was as good as the
1:46:26original trilogy that but it's that I
1:46:28can watch and and enjoy and feel like
1:46:31I'm having a fun time watching star wars
1:46:33movie right that's that's what it
1:46:34confirmed like this can happen again
1:46:36yeah and so now seeing road 10 feeling
1:46:38like god what a mess
1:46:40it's it's not at like an additional
1:46:42feeling of disappointment that like
1:46:44they'll never get it right again
1:46:46yeah and and so that that that's the
1:46:48feeling I mean I think I mean broke one
1:46:50is an order of magnitude better than the
1:46:53prequels oh oh yeah I'd rather watch
1:46:56Road one three times in a row then watch
1:46:58one of the prequels once
1:47:00yeah yeah just to be just to be clear
1:47:02like yeah just just to be absolutely
1:47:04clear I don't feel like I wasted my time
1:47:06seeing road one like I've had not just
1:47:08for work purposes like I i I'm I'm glad
1:47:10I went and saw it was good enough to be
1:47:12worth you know you ten quid and a couple
1:47:15of hours and afternoon but I maybe I
1:47:17liked obviously liked it more than you
1:47:18but i think i think it was you know like
1:47:20i said it was my thumb is above the
1:47:22horizontal so it doesn't get it does get
1:47:25a slight thumbs up for me but it is it
1:47:28is very flawed who and it's just not fun
1:47:31it's just not fun movie that's the
1:47:32problem it's like I could forgive bad
1:47:35scripting if I like if it was fun
1:47:37who that wasn't even that fund it was it
1:47:39was it took itself quite seriously
1:47:41except for the droid and there were lots
1:47:44of mindless battle today like it
1:47:46you know the old fashioned ending of the
1:47:47film just people just shooting the crap
1:47:49out of each other for half-an-hour
1:47:51happened
1:47:52so anyway i'll be curious to hear and
1:47:54read and see what everyone else in the
1:47:57world thinks now
1:47:58yeah me too um I'll be curious to see
1:48:00what the reaction is alright but let's
1:48:03go back to all of my notes about what
1:48:04happened to Jenna because i have many
1:48:06points that I want to still hang on