Hello Internet

H.I. #70: Bun Fight


00:00:00   naughty check audio check naughty check [TS]

00:00:02   i was a bit naughty [TS]

00:00:05   you know how I don't like totally [TS]

00:00:08   understand the difference between you [TS]

00:00:10   and I when it comes to objects and [TS]

00:00:12   memorabilia and mementos and things [TS]

00:00:15   what's not to understand seems very [TS]

00:00:16   clear well I realize we're different but [TS]

00:00:20   I just always trying to understand it [TS]

00:00:21   better [TS]

00:00:22   so I've come up with a hypothetical [TS]

00:00:24   scenario ok and i want to know how you [TS]

00:00:26   would react and I know this is just a [TS]

00:00:28   crazy hypothetical scenario but it will [TS]

00:00:30   help me better understand you so just go [TS]

00:00:32   with me for a second okay so we're doing [TS]

00:00:35   a thought experiment after experiment [TS]

00:00:36   yet I was trying to think of someone [TS]

00:00:38   who's famous who I think you hold in [TS]

00:00:40   high regard [TS]

00:00:41   so I've gone for a long mascara ok [TS]

00:00:44   alright say Elon Musk came to London and [TS]

00:00:47   for some reason he emailed you and said [TS]

00:00:49   our cgpgrey I he live in London and I've [TS]

00:00:52   liked a couple of videos notice wonder [TS]

00:00:53   if you want to go for a coffee [TS]

00:00:55   ok I'm sure that you would say yes to [TS]

00:00:56   that so you go for a quick coffee with [TS]

00:00:58   him and he just chat about whatever you [TS]

00:01:00   to want to chat about [TS]

00:01:01   and while you're at coffee he like has a [TS]

00:01:03   napkin or something and he's just [TS]

00:01:05   sketching and drawing little and he [TS]

00:01:07   draws like just a funny picture of you [TS]

00:01:09   two sitting at a table and at the end he [TS]

00:01:10   decides that and so do on this industry [TS]

00:01:12   the service is sitting having a chat to [TS]

00:01:14   gray great to meet you [TS]

00:01:16   Elon Musk what do you do with that [TS]

00:01:19   napkin [TS]

00:01:20   well there's two things that occur here [TS]

00:01:22   one of which is trying to navigate [TS]

00:01:26   social graces yet so i think there are [TS]

00:01:28   many times when you need to be seen as [TS]

00:01:31   receiving a gift I cared you have no [TS]

00:01:33   intention of actually keeping so you're [TS]

00:01:35   not going to screw it up and throw it in [TS]

00:01:36   his face because as i have learned in my [TS]

00:01:41   interactions with people over my life [TS]

00:01:43   sometimes you have to try to accept what [TS]

00:01:47   the person is doing not like that actual [TS]

00:01:51   nitpicky details of the situation yet a [TS]

00:01:53   person is just trying to extend a nice [TS]

00:01:57   gesture [TS]

00:01:58   yep and you need to accept the gesture [TS]

00:02:03   because rejecting it is a whole other [TS]

00:02:07   indication that is not intended i love [TS]

00:02:09   how you explain this like you've just [TS]

00:02:11   discovered the skies below it's not [TS]

00:02:12   you're imparting wisdom when this is [TS]

00:02:14   just cold like normal human behavior and [TS]

00:02:16   matters that this is the thing humans [TS]

00:02:19   have to learn [TS]

00:02:20   yes of course and i like to think anyone [TS]

00:02:23   above the age of 10 will take the gift [TS]

00:02:25   and say thank you very much [TS]

00:02:26   regardless of what they think of the [TS]

00:02:28   gift so let's say that you've said thank [TS]

00:02:30   you mr. mask shook his hand said I [TS]

00:02:32   enjoyed coffee thanks for the net can [TS]

00:02:34   see around now you've got this napkin [TS]

00:02:36   with a hand drawn sketch by alien mask [TS]

00:02:39   signed by him of a moment you two shared [TS]

00:02:41   em what do you do with it [TS]

00:02:43   well I would do what I do with almost [TS]

00:02:47   everything which is I would take a [TS]

00:02:49   picture of it and get rid of it [TS]

00:02:52   that's what i would do it right because [TS]

00:02:53   what you want is the memory you want the [TS]

00:02:56   signifier of the thing okay but you [TS]

00:02:59   don't actually want the thing okay [TS]

00:03:02   does that make sense yes how do you [TS]

00:03:05   interpret the results of this thought [TS]

00:03:07   experiment i remain baffled its kind of [TS]

00:03:10   the answer I expected but uh huh [TS]

00:03:13   is there any object other than something [TS]

00:03:15   that you're keeping just for pure cash [TS]

00:03:17   reasons that you would take for [TS]

00:03:20   sentimental reasons [TS]

00:03:21   is there anything I could have come up [TS]

00:03:23   with in my hypothetical that you'd have [TS]

00:03:25   said oh yeah I probably get that put in [TS]

00:03:27   a frame and put it on my wall [TS]

00:03:28   did I just think of an adequately cool [TS]

00:03:31   thing or is there nothing you would [TS]

00:03:32   frame moon [TS]

00:03:34   I feel like there has to be an answer to [TS]

00:03:38   this where an object also has a [TS]

00:03:41   decorative value so you're talking about [TS]

00:03:43   framing a thing i'm not against having [TS]

00:03:46   stuff in frames and displayed in the [TS]

00:03:48   abstract I'm not necessarily an advocate [TS]

00:03:51   for pure bare walls [TS]

00:03:53   yeah like framing and Afghan would seem [TS]

00:03:55   like a strange thing to do so it [TS]

00:03:56   wouldn't necessarily have that sort of [TS]

00:03:58   value i can imagine a situation where [TS]

00:04:00   there is an object that has decorative [TS]

00:04:03   and sentimental value that I would want [TS]

00:04:06   to keep would stay around can you [TS]

00:04:07   concoct one in your head now or does one [TS]

00:04:09   exist in your house which would be even [TS]

00:04:11   better [TS]

00:04:12   I just had an object from the last week [TS]

00:04:15   that's what made me even think about [TS]

00:04:16   this okay because you know i'm a little [TS]

00:04:18   bit obsessed with graham's number which [TS]

00:04:20   is this hugely big number used to be the [TS]

00:04:22   biggest number ever and still famous [TS]

00:04:23   number [TS]

00:04:24   and I met Ron Graham in the US and we [TS]

00:04:27   made some videos together and he got at [TS]

00:04:29   the big pieces of paper we use a number [TS]

00:04:30   file and he drew numbers and diagrams [TS]

00:04:32   and explained it to me and at the end up [TS]

00:04:34   going to sign up you know from Ron [TS]

00:04:35   Graham little and I've had one of those [TS]

00:04:37   big bits of paper of Ron grams [TS]

00:04:39   description of graham's number in a [TS]

00:04:41   frame because it for me it was like I [TS]

00:04:43   was always obsessed with graham's number [TS]

00:04:44   as a kid I met the guy we shared a day [TS]

00:04:47   together we went for dinner he drew all [TS]

00:04:49   these pictures for me i'm going to keep [TS]

00:04:50   one and it's like special to me [TS]

00:04:53   I'm trying to find what your equivalent [TS]

00:04:54   of that is yeah but the graham's number [TS]

00:04:56   thing like to me that is cool i can [TS]

00:04:58   totally understand why you would want to [TS]

00:05:00   frame that and have that on display like [TS]

00:05:03   that makes sense i have no objection to [TS]

00:05:04   that I have much more the objection to [TS]

00:05:06   your box full of astronaut photos that [TS]

00:05:09   you never look at your multiple chest [TS]

00:05:11   full of astronautics that you never look [TS]

00:05:13   at that's him he seems like just [TS]

00:05:15   hoarding objects or no benefit [TS]

00:05:16   whatsoever but the grabs everything [TS]

00:05:18   makes sense and also even like [TS]

00:05:19   mathematical proofs and explanations [TS]

00:05:21   like that they have a particular kind of [TS]

00:05:23   austerity beauty about them so they make [TS]

00:05:26   sense as an object to bring my other [TS]

00:05:29   hypothetical I was going to give you [TS]

00:05:30   before i came up with my coffee one was [TS]

00:05:32   I was imagining that if a lot mask set [TS]

00:05:35   up by the way gray he is the first [TS]

00:05:37   sketch of a tester I ever did when I [TS]

00:05:39   first thought of it i just quickly put [TS]

00:05:40   something down but the only reason I [TS]

00:05:42   didn't give that to you as my [TS]

00:05:43   hypothetical because i need to get a [TS]

00:05:45   rational inside well that's worth a lot [TS]

00:05:46   of money so of course I'm gonna take [TS]

00:05:47   that cake but seven is exactly the [TS]

00:05:51   clockwork that's going through my mind [TS]

00:05:52   right now as it's ok it's like oh this [TS]

00:05:55   is like a Leonardo DaVinci sketch of a [TS]

00:05:58   helicopter has like the thing itself is [TS]

00:06:00   not valuable but like the thing that it [TS]

00:06:02   represents has value to other people and [TS]

00:06:04   so now you can start playing this game [TS]

00:06:06   of what do other people value giving [TS]

00:06:08   objects intrinsic worth that they don't [TS]

00:06:10   necessarily have on their own because [TS]

00:06:12   you know you are [TS]

00:06:13   did nothing useful in terms of [TS]

00:06:15   engineering he just drew pictures of [TS]

00:06:16   things that couldn't be invented but we [TS]

00:06:18   all sort of like collectively agree [TS]

00:06:20   society that they must have worth so [TS]

00:06:21   they have this incredible worth so is I [TS]

00:06:24   have a hard time separating Elon Musk's [TS]

00:06:26   original sketches of Tesla have [TS]

00:06:29   intrinsic value because humans would [TS]

00:06:31   value them as interesting valuable [TS]

00:06:33   objects [TS]

00:06:34   yeah from the thing itself I feel like [TS]

00:06:36   you can't separate the [TS]

00:06:38   does two things I shouldn't be surprised [TS]

00:06:42   anymore but you still manage to surprise [TS]

00:06:43   me with your lack of sentimentality [TS]

00:06:45   I think it's just the way some people's [TS]

00:06:48   brains work and i said before that I [TS]

00:06:52   find rooms with lots of objects in them [TS]

00:06:55   it's almost similar to being in a room [TS]

00:06:57   that's kind of noisy somehow it's [TS]

00:07:00   distracting [TS]

00:07:02   like it makes focusing on things harder [TS]

00:07:04   when there's lots of things in a room so [TS]

00:07:06   I feel like reducing the number of [TS]

00:07:08   objects is like a way of focusing on the [TS]

00:07:12   few things that you actually care about [TS]

00:07:15   or want to do [TS]

00:07:16   it's why we like with almost everything [TS]

00:07:18   I have I try to reduce it down to like [TS]

00:07:20   the minimum number of necessary parts [TS]

00:07:23   that is the thing that is like unrelated [TS]

00:07:25   to sentimentality there's a certain kind [TS]

00:07:27   of noise that I find with a bunch of [TS]

00:07:29   object but some people just don't find [TS]

00:07:30   that and I think that's what the [TS]

00:07:31   difference is here that there's like a [TS]

00:07:34   benefit to the minimalism which is [TS]

00:07:36   separated from the aesthetics of the [TS]

00:07:39   minimalism I thought maybe it's more [TS]

00:07:41   related to like you know your extreme [TS]

00:07:43   personality because you know how your [TS]

00:07:45   library funny about germs and stuff as [TS]

00:07:47   well and not really funny about terms [TS]

00:07:50   i'm actually just quite reasonable about [TS]

00:07:51   germs well of course it's just because [TS]

00:07:53   I've thought it through [TS]

00:07:54   yeah this is not an extreme personality [TS]

00:07:56   trait I fundamentally disagree with you [TS]

00:07:57   and I will not let you just throw out [TS]

00:07:58   such an aspersion about an hour to use [TS]

00:08:01   like character with germs [TS]

00:08:02   okay no that's what I'm saying no no I [TS]

00:08:05   really was putting it there for you to [TS]

00:08:07   like go either way I'm quite open to the [TS]

00:08:08   fact that it's completely unrelated move [TS]

00:08:10   i'm just wondering if it could also be [TS]

00:08:12   related you can find distraction and [TS]

00:08:14   worry quite easily [TS]

00:08:16   I sometimes think I don't think that's [TS]

00:08:17   fair and i think this is the fundamental [TS]

00:08:20   nature of our podcast here is like a [TS]

00:08:24   difficulty or an inability to understand [TS]

00:08:27   the minds of other people human [TS]

00:08:29   communication between humans is just so [TS]

00:08:32   hard sometimes when you're really trying [TS]

00:08:34   to get down to hit like a fundamental [TS]

00:08:38   question of what is it like to be a [TS]

00:08:40   brady and what is it like to be a gray [TS]

00:08:42   it's a very hard thing to know like I [TS]

00:08:44   don't really know what it's like to be a [TS]

00:08:46   brady I think I have some ideas of what [TS]

00:08:49   it's like to be a Brady but I don't [TS]

00:08:50   really know [TS]

00:08:51   oh and your life is mysterious to me as [TS]

00:08:54   well like I don't know how you do all of [TS]

00:08:56   the things that you do i find that also [TS]

00:08:59   mysteriously I don't know what it's like [TS]

00:09:00   to be a Brady because I'm not a brady [TS]

00:09:02   that's why I come up with stupid [TS]

00:09:03   hypotheticals about you having a coffee [TS]

00:09:05   with Elon Musk [TS]

00:09:06   this isn't just another line of attack [TS]

00:09:08   in my never-ending quest to understand [TS]

00:09:10   what it's like to be a great [TS]

00:09:12   it's so hard to convey the contents of [TS]

00:09:14   one's mind yeah that's ultimately the [TS]

00:09:17   difficulty [TS]

00:09:18   yeah but I can imagine you sitting at [TS]

00:09:19   your computer are about to work and then [TS]

00:09:22   let the thought comes into your head [TS]

00:09:23   that you didn't put your toothbrush away [TS]

00:09:26   and i can imagine you wouldn't be able [TS]

00:09:28   to start working till you went and put [TS]

00:09:29   your toothbrush in the right place [TS]

00:09:30   because like the thought that maybe your [TS]

00:09:32   toothbrushes too close to the toilet or [TS]

00:09:33   you know has fallen onto a dirty surface [TS]

00:09:37   I think he would not be able to work [TS]

00:09:38   until you fix that and it's the same [TS]

00:09:40   with maybe if a picture on the world [TS]

00:09:42   like you are easily distractible and [TS]

00:09:44   everyone's a bit like that but I think [TS]

00:09:46   you're very like that but maybe I'm [TS]

00:09:48   wrong maybe you could just crack on work [TS]

00:09:49   knowing that your toothbrushes not be [TS]

00:09:51   put away properly [TS]

00:09:52   that's super funny because that to me [TS]

00:09:54   falls into the leg OCD like behavior and [TS]

00:09:57   I feel like I've never had that feeling [TS]

00:09:59   of something is not right i need to go [TS]

00:10:02   fix it now [TS]

00:10:03   ok and so that's why I want the minimum [TS]

00:10:05   number of things because there's few [TS]

00:10:06   things to keep straight in the house the [TS]

00:10:09   toothbrush thing it's on like it kind of [TS]

00:10:11   drives my wife crazy that I tend to just [TS]

00:10:13   leave the electronic toothbrush and the [TS]

00:10:17   toothpaste in random locations around [TS]

00:10:18   the house all the time because I sort of [TS]

00:10:20   peace around when I'm brushing my teeth [TS]

00:10:22   and then I don't pay attention when i'm [TS]

00:10:24   done like with the toothbrush and just [TS]

00:10:26   kind of put it down and leave it there [TS]

00:10:27   and totally forget about it so that it's [TS]

00:10:29   a perfect case of like it never even [TS]

00:10:30   occurred to me to worry about like oh [TS]

00:10:31   where is the toothbrush is it too close [TS]

00:10:33   to the toilet what about those germs [TS]

00:10:35   I'm surprised by that as interesting to [TS]

00:10:36   know that you would just leave your [TS]

00:10:37   toothbrush somewhere random I wouldn't [TS]

00:10:39   have thought you would do that [TS]

00:10:41   yeah there's something about it which [TS]

00:10:42   slides below my threshold of recognizing [TS]

00:10:45   it there's like a little bit of a habit [TS]

00:10:47   of just walking around while I brush my [TS]

00:10:48   teeth and then I just put it down and [TS]

00:10:50   totally forget about where it is but [TS]

00:10:51   speaking of objects and what to do with [TS]

00:10:56   objects m lady you and I were going to [TS]

00:10:59   have a bit of a problem on our hands [TS]

00:11:01   because the hello internet YouTube [TS]

00:11:04   channel has recently crossed a hundred [TS]

00:11:08   thousand subscribers much to my [TS]

00:11:11   amazement I still have a hard time [TS]

00:11:12   believing how many people actually [TS]

00:11:14   prefer to listen to the show on YouTube [TS]

00:11:17   which is baffling to me but yes we have [TS]

00:11:20   crossed a hundred thousand subscribers [TS]

00:11:22   and as you know because you have done [TS]

00:11:27   this many times with many channels when [TS]

00:11:31   you cross a hundred thousand subscribers [TS]

00:11:32   youtube sends you a trophy of sorts with [TS]

00:11:37   their silver play button 400,000 how [TS]

00:11:40   many of these do you have now breeding [TS]

00:11:41   well i have six here are we even going [TS]

00:11:47   to pretend there's like a debate to be [TS]

00:11:49   had here like why are we even talking [TS]

00:11:51   about this [TS]

00:11:52   everyone who has source go past a [TS]

00:11:54   hundred thousand knows what's going to [TS]

00:11:56   happen you know what's going to happen [TS]

00:11:58   I know what's gonna happen I know what's [TS]

00:12:00   gonna happen is i would like this trophy [TS]

00:12:04   for myself I feel like you have six [TS]

00:12:06   trophies if I'm going to get any of the [TS]

00:12:11   trophies [TS]

00:12:12   this is the one that I want you want [TS]

00:12:15   this one day [TS]

00:12:15   yeah I want this one I want to put it [TS]

00:12:18   above my mantle [TS]

00:12:20   yeah I want to put it above the mantel [TS]

00:12:22   yet so that i can look at this great [TS]

00:12:24   accomplishment [TS]

00:12:25   yeah of the internet YouTube channel [TS]

00:12:27   which is this kind of Island related to [TS]

00:12:29   the main project of the podcast i want [TS]

00:12:32   this trophy I want to have it all right [TS]

00:12:35   well I want to keep it i actually have [TS]

00:12:37   just had one of my other channels [TS]

00:12:39   morning my first channels nothing of [TS]

00:12:41   science actually just passed 200 k [TS]

00:12:43   congratulations [TS]

00:12:44   numberphile to is on 97 k and [TS]

00:12:47   objectivity is on 92 k so if people want [TS]

00:12:50   to help me every team's wanna help me [TS]

00:12:51   out [TS]

00:12:52   go and subscribe to objectivity for [TS]

00:12:54   God's sake of such a good channel needs [TS]

00:12:55   more subscribers so if you want to [TS]

00:12:57   subscribe to those i could potentially [TS]

00:12:59   have another three anyway in the coming [TS]

00:13:01   months I was hoping you'd give me the [TS]

00:13:04   hello internet once i could have 10 mm [TS]

00:13:06   that looks like I'm gonna have to be [TS]

00:13:08   content with 9i think precisely because [TS]

00:13:10   you wanted for number ten [TS]

00:13:12   I'm going to receive it [TS]

00:13:14   for my first it's a carefree era and my [TS]

00:13:21   plan is I'm going to take a picture of [TS]

00:13:23   it and then I'm going to throw it away [TS]

00:13:25   they're not right impressive the silver [TS]

00:13:27   buttons the gold buttons are impressive [TS]

00:13:29   and I know you haven't got your gold [TS]

00:13:30   button that you're entitled to but the [TS]

00:13:32   gold buttons are very impressive but the [TS]

00:13:35   silver buttons they seem a bit cheaper [TS]

00:13:37   and that was nicely framed and their [TS]

00:13:40   load smaller and move and they're still [TS]

00:13:42   nice i don't have to do i guess but i [TS]

00:13:44   don't think you'll be overly impressed [TS]

00:13:46   fire to hear that YouTube Brady [TS]

00:13:48   collector of silver play buttons not [TS]

00:13:52   impressed [TS]

00:13:53   yeah i guess they seem a bit boring when [TS]

00:13:55   you start getting close to 10 but [TS]

00:13:57   unremarkable they're still in their [TS]

00:13:59   boxes and they're stored under a safer [TS]

00:14:01   my place [TS]

00:14:02   yeah I know ok ok so let me ask you if [TS]

00:14:07   you have them in boxes on opens I'm [TS]

00:14:10   doing is sofa [TS]

00:14:11   why would you even want the hello [TS]

00:14:13   Internet 100,000 i do still like the [TS]

00:14:15   idea of putting them on a wall was a [TS]

00:14:16   little collection I have loads of this [TS]

00:14:18   frame stuff I haven't put on walls [TS]

00:14:19   because I never actually get around [TS]

00:14:21   I'm not very good at hanging things on [TS]

00:14:22   wolves so I always worry i'll do it [TS]

00:14:25   badly or especially trying to hang ten [TS]

00:14:27   silver buttons [TS]

00:14:29   how on earth am I going to get them all [TS]

00:14:31   straight and lined up i know i'll do it [TS]

00:14:33   crooked I'm so bad a handyman stuff [TS]

00:14:35   they'll be all crooked and all over the [TS]

00:14:37   place and they won't form a nice grid on [TS]

00:14:39   the wall and it would drive me crazy so [TS]

00:14:40   for that reason I never get around to it [TS]

00:14:42   but i do like the idea of having old 10 [TS]

00:14:44   one day like on a wall i think that [TS]

00:14:46   could be quite nifty in an office or [TS]

00:14:48   something [TS]

00:14:49   yeah but you'd be sitting down at your [TS]

00:14:50   computer trying to get to work and then [TS]

00:14:52   you think are there not quite straight [TS]

00:14:54   and then you leave up to fix it [TS]

00:14:55   that would do my head in if I was [TS]

00:14:57   looking at like really unstrained things [TS]

00:15:00   on the world that's it's unacceptable [TS]

00:15:02   well I know you going to let me have it [TS]

00:15:03   so that you're so confident how do you [TS]

00:15:05   know that i'm going to let you have [TS]

00:15:06   maybe I'm serious what would you do if i [TS]

00:15:07   was serious about this Brady I'd be [TS]

00:15:09   really surprised you don't strike me as [TS]

00:15:11   someone who would do something terrible [TS]

00:15:12   to people you don't like it alone [TS]

00:15:14   someone you kind of get along with say I [TS]

00:15:17   just don't think you do it but you know [TS]

00:15:19   i'm open to being surprised you know i'm [TS]

00:15:21   probably putting fuel on the fire now [TS]

00:15:23   being so sort of sure that you won't but [TS]

00:15:26   well actually wonder like how would you [TS]

00:15:28   tube resolve this because if YouTube is [TS]

00:15:32   good at anything it's good at making [TS]

00:15:33   sure everybody's happy all the time and [TS]

00:15:35   so i presume that they only give out one [TS]

00:15:38   button per channel [TS]

00:15:39   yeah so i would love to know is what [TS]

00:15:41   would happen if we both told youtube [TS]

00:15:43   that we each one of the button i would [TS]

00:15:45   like to test you tube system here at [TS]

00:15:48   like to test YouTube's patients and see [TS]

00:15:50   what happens if we each demand a button [TS]

00:15:53   I think we should do it I think we [TS]

00:15:54   should see what happens ask them to [TS]

00:15:56   configure ticket [TS]

00:15:57   yeah I think maybe maybe you have [TS]

00:16:00   sufficient clout that do it but I think [TS]

00:16:02   I probably why do you know what the [TS]

00:16:04   thing is the breeding yeah I really [TS]

00:16:06   don't want to do that because victory [TS]

00:16:09   would just be defeat because as you know [TS]

00:16:11   full well I cannot even pretend for the [TS]

00:16:14   sake of the podcast that I actually want [TS]

00:16:16   you can sue play button and if we made [TS]

00:16:18   youtube send out to play buttons i would [TS]

00:16:22   just feel like oh I really have to keep [TS]

00:16:25   this but i just i have just received a [TS]

00:16:29   bowling ball that will now have to [TS]

00:16:30   travel with me for the rest of my life [TS]

00:16:32   well victory would be defeat and it's [TS]

00:16:34   not even a thing that I can pretend like [TS]

00:16:36   i want to mess around with like someone [TS]

00:16:38   at YouTube right now listening to the [TS]

00:16:39   podcast is like getting ready to type an [TS]

00:16:41   email to someone about sending off to [TS]

00:16:42   like you know what I don't want that I [TS]

00:16:44   can't even pretend to do I don't want to [TS]

00:16:47   play button [TS]

00:16:47   I'm very happy for you to have it well I [TS]

00:16:49   mean there are other things that could [TS]

00:16:50   be done here great i mean you could give [TS]

00:16:52   me both and then you could take the [TS]

00:16:54   light now I had 11 silver play button [TS]

00:16:56   and how difficult it would be to display [TS]

00:16:58   that would be pretty funny i did see [TS]

00:17:02   someone suggests that we could note down [TS]

00:17:04   the silver play button and cast it into [TS]

00:17:06   the hello Internet medals of Honor [TS]

00:17:09   oh yeah anything was meltdown about that [TS]

00:17:12   would actually be an excellent idea but [TS]

00:17:13   obviously that Victoria Crosses and made [TS]

00:17:16   from like a melted down can and stuff [TS]

00:17:18   like that so that will be quite a nice [TS]

00:17:20   touch I didn't know that [TS]

00:17:21   yeah i think it's a cannon from the one [TS]

00:17:23   big lot of metal [TS]

00:17:25   mm that's an interesting trivia fact and [TS]

00:17:28   I I'm not checking it right now so if [TS]

00:17:30   I've got it wrong i'm just going to take [TS]

00:17:31   it something on the reddit that's just a [TS]

00:17:33   fact [TS]

00:17:34   just say it confidently people will go [TS]

00:17:36   along with it they definitely made from [TS]

00:17:37   the one source of metal from [TS]

00:17:39   some war relic I mean I've actually [TS]

00:17:41   encountered and not too dissimilar [TS]

00:17:43   problem if I can have a little humble [TS]

00:17:45   brag for a minute gray no please go [TS]

00:17:47   ahead [TS]

00:17:47   sixty symbols the physics channel has [TS]

00:17:50   recently been awarded something called [TS]

00:17:52   the Kelvin metal which is the institute [TS]

00:17:55   of physics in the UK gives out like this [TS]

00:17:57   metal each year for outreach and we [TS]

00:18:00   wanted this year which is this huge [TS]

00:18:01   honor and we look we're picking it up in [TS]

00:18:03   december i think that some awards [TS]

00:18:06   ceremony and congratulations thank you [TS]

00:18:08   very much i thought you'd like it was [TS]

00:18:09   called the Kelvin medal I know you love [TS]

00:18:10   the name Lord Kelvin it's named after [TS]

00:18:12   him [TS]

00:18:12   very cool but the problem is this is the [TS]

00:18:15   humble bad move that will only give it [TS]

00:18:17   to three recipients the most much like [TS]

00:18:19   the Nobel price you have to have three [TS]

00:18:21   named people and obviously sixty symbols [TS]

00:18:24   is this big ensemble cast so right the [TS]

00:18:28   decision was taken that my name should [TS]

00:18:30   be on it because I make all the videos [TS]

00:18:32   so they thought well that's probably the [TS]

00:18:34   one the easiest one decision right and [TS]

00:18:36   then we've put to other of the [TS]

00:18:38   scientists on the project's name in the [TS]

00:18:40   submission so we could get at maximum [TS]

00:18:42   three and we just sort of arbitrarily [TS]

00:18:44   chose to who probably have done the most [TS]

00:18:47   videos but then we have all these other [TS]

00:18:48   scientists who have been involved in the [TS]

00:18:50   project some of them done loads and [TS]

00:18:51   loads of videos who are named but what [TS]

00:18:54   we've done is we also get prize money i [TS]

00:18:57   can't remember how much is so it's like [TS]

00:18:59   a thousand pounds or something and we're [TS]

00:19:01   going to use all the prize money to have [TS]

00:19:03   replica medals made and we're going to [TS]

00:19:05   give medals to everyone on the project [TS]

00:19:07   so we kind of go around the problem that [TS]

00:19:09   way the people who get the replicants [TS]

00:19:11   will their medals just have their name [TS]

00:19:14   on it [TS]

00:19:15   where will you also stamp your name [TS]

00:19:17   bring Aaron above their name on all of [TS]

00:19:19   the replicas so that everybody [TS]

00:19:21   understands have Brady gets the respect [TS]

00:19:24   he deserves [TS]

00:19:25   on every single metal is that was going [TS]

00:19:27   to happen like here's your medal Joe [TS]

00:19:30   right at the top it says Brady Aryan [TS]

00:19:32   below it says professor Joe we could be [TS]

00:19:37   even meaner and let make them true [TS]

00:19:38   replicas and just have the medals with [TS]

00:19:40   our three names on them and the middle [TS]

00:19:42   they get given doesn't even have their [TS]

00:19:43   name on it it's got the name of the [TS]

00:19:44   other three people how are you going to [TS]

00:19:48   do this pretty what is the plan is it [TS]

00:19:50   just going to have their name on it or [TS]

00:19:51   is it going to have there [TS]

00:19:52   mad your name and I certainly hope as a [TS]

00:19:55   good my name when I think good i am not [TS]

00:19:56   actually responsible for this process [TS]

00:19:58   ok i will happily take credit for [TS]

00:20:00   suggesting it but i will not be involved [TS]

00:20:03   in the execution of it so this will be a [TS]

00:20:05   decision for other people but I think [TS]

00:20:07   the best option by far away will be just [TS]

00:20:09   to have the name of the recipient I [TS]

00:20:11   think that's probably the best I don't [TS]

00:20:13   even know if on the night when we get [TS]

00:20:15   like the real medal at the ceremony [TS]

00:20:17   whether we get three or we get one to [TS]

00:20:19   share between us so I don't even know [TS]

00:20:21   what's going to happen there it could be [TS]

00:20:23   a real band far it's a real bunfight [TS]

00:20:26   yeah [TS]

00:20:28   15 that's like a tear I've never heard [TS]

00:20:30   the term bunfight it's something my [TS]

00:20:32   parents would say so that's why I [TS]

00:20:33   realized I probably should have said it [TS]

00:20:34   was it may 15 I don't think this is a [TS]

00:20:37   real thing I think this is just a brady [TS]

00:20:39   family term a bun fight is a sustained [TS]

00:20:42   overblown argument about a petty matter [TS]

00:20:45   so it sounds like just the sort of thing [TS]

00:20:46   I get into it sounds like a hello [TS]

00:20:49   Internet traffic record it does yeah [TS]

00:20:51   sounds like every episode we've ever had [TS]

00:20:54   yeah but our disagreements petty yes [TS]

00:20:58   are they sustained over a long period of [TS]

00:21:00   time in some cases years we should have [TS]

00:21:03   called this hello been five today's [TS]

00:21:07   sponsor is audible.com who has more than [TS]

00:21:10   180,000 audiobooks and spoken word audio [TS]

00:21:14   products you can get a free 30-day trial [TS]

00:21:16   today by going to audible.com / hello [TS]

00:21:20   Internet [TS]

00:21:20   I don't know about you but I've been [TS]

00:21:22   watching a lot of narcos on Netflix I've [TS]

00:21:24   been really enjoying it but the one [TS]

00:21:26   thing that I always find frustrating [TS]

00:21:28   with shows like this is I feel like they [TS]

00:21:30   never really go into enough of the [TS]

00:21:32   details of exactly how the business [TS]

00:21:34   works i'll talk a little bit about how [TS]

00:21:38   you try to smuggle drugs across the [TS]

00:21:40   border or the difficulty of getting [TS]

00:21:41   payments back across the border but [TS]

00:21:43   never enough for me [TS]

00:21:45   this led me to go looking around to see [TS]

00:21:47   if there were any good books written on [TS]

00:21:49   the business of drug dealing and i came [TS]

00:21:52   across an economics how to run a drug [TS]

00:21:54   cartel by tom Wainwright if you want to [TS]

00:21:58   start a drug empire of your own i guess [TS]

00:22:00   this would be the place to start [TS]

00:22:02   they go through the personnel problems [TS]

00:22:04   that you have [TS]

00:22:05   as a drug dealer the difficulty of [TS]

00:22:07   managing customer service over the [TS]

00:22:09   internet when you're selling your drugs [TS]

00:22:11   via the darker corners of that global [TS]

00:22:14   network and a whole other bunch of [TS]

00:22:16   details about how it is the drug cartels [TS]

00:22:19   are run so check out the economics on [TS]

00:22:22   audible.com along with their hundred [TS]

00:22:26   thousand plus other things to listen to [TS]

00:22:29   audibles where I get all of my audio [TS]

00:22:31   books and you should too [TS]

00:22:33   you can download your audiobook files [TS]

00:22:35   you can listen on your phone using their [TS]

00:22:37   player you can listen on your android [TS]

00:22:39   device you can listen on your computer [TS]

00:22:41   you can listen just about wherever you [TS]

00:22:42   want if you're one of those people who [TS]

00:22:44   uses a kindle you can actually get the [TS]

00:22:45   audio book and the e-book and Amazon [TS]

00:22:48   will synchronize both of them together [TS]

00:22:49   which sounds quite nice [TS]

00:22:51   it really is the place to go for [TS]

00:22:52   audiobooks and I think audiobooks are a [TS]

00:22:56   way that i can read much more than i [TS]

00:22:59   would otherwise go check out audible [TS]

00:23:02   check out and economics if that sounds [TS]

00:23:04   interesting to you go to audible.com / [TS]

00:23:08   hello Internet to get your free 30-day [TS]

00:23:10   trial and to let audible know that you [TS]

00:23:12   are supporting this podcast just for [TS]

00:23:15   anybody who didn't know I feel [TS]

00:23:17   responsible to break some celebrity news [TS]

00:23:21   yeah which is that it seems the Brad [TS]

00:23:24   Pitt and Angelina Jolie em are breaking [TS]

00:23:28   up [TS]

00:23:28   they're getting a divorce mm I feel the [TS]

00:23:30   need to mention this mostly so that i [TS]

00:23:34   can just recently defy the concept that [TS]

00:23:36   I was right at the time in the quiz show [TS]

00:23:39   that they were still married but they're [TS]

00:23:42   getting a divorce and I found it an [TS]

00:23:45   entertaining experience to be on the [TS]

00:23:48   receiving end of a very large number of [TS]

00:23:50   messages from strangers informing me [TS]

00:23:53   that Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie were [TS]

00:23:54   breaking up at that supports what's [TS]

00:23:56   occurring and finding out like through [TS]

00:23:58   my email inbox from random feedback from [TS]

00:24:01   strangers on the internet who want to [TS]

00:24:03   let me know that my answer to a quiz so [TS]

00:24:05   question on the previous episode would [TS]

00:24:07   no longer be the case going forward [TS]

00:24:10   sorry Brad jolina it's all over isn't a [TS]

00:24:14   brand jolina [TS]

00:24:15   I don't know brangelina natalina branch [TS]

00:24:18   I think you need the end in there i'm [TS]

00:24:20   simply realizing this is never a word i [TS]

00:24:22   have heard out loud i have only ever [TS]

00:24:24   seen written Brangelina anything that's [TS]

00:24:28   what it is [TS]

00:24:29   whenever one of these stories gets like [TS]

00:24:31   you know like BBC will do a breaking [TS]

00:24:33   news alert [TS]

00:24:34   Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie are going [TS]

00:24:35   to divorce and some people will say how [TS]

00:24:38   do you make that breaking news so [TS]

00:24:39   trivial [TS]

00:24:40   people are dying all over the world [TS]

00:24:41   haven't you got better things to report [TS]

00:24:43   this always happens right does it okay [TS]

00:24:46   yeah i'll tell you what there was [TS]

00:24:47   another big breaking story in the last [TS]

00:24:50   week that was truly a big deal [TS]

00:24:53   great do you know anything about the [TS]

00:24:55   television show The Great British Bake [TS]

00:24:57   Off [TS]

00:24:58   I only know that it exists because it [TS]

00:25:02   has this funny name [TS]

00:25:03   I've heard people reference it i think [TS]

00:25:05   maybe you have mentioned the existence [TS]

00:25:07   of this to me before or somebody else [TS]

00:25:09   has [TS]

00:25:09   yeah so I know that there exists a show [TS]

00:25:11   called the Great British Bake Off [TS]

00:25:13   yeah but I know nothing else about it [TS]

00:25:16   well I think that's been a big story [TS]

00:25:19   this week and it has had many [TS]

00:25:20   interesting components to it which if [TS]

00:25:22   you did follow what you would find quite [TS]

00:25:23   interesting but for those people who [TS]

00:25:26   don't know which is which is anyone who [TS]

00:25:28   probably was outside the UK just so you [TS]

00:25:30   understand what the show is there's a [TS]

00:25:33   big posh tent like a marquee in the [TS]

00:25:35   grounds of like some big famous mansion [TS]

00:25:37   in England and that's where their host [TS]

00:25:39   this show and they've set up all these [TS]

00:25:40   little many kitchens in that they've all [TS]

00:25:42   got their own little kitchen bar and I [TS]

00:25:44   can all see each other or something and [TS]

00:25:45   I've got like ovens and mixes and things [TS]

00:25:47   i think at the start there's something [TS]

00:25:49   like 12 or more contestants and it's [TS]

00:25:52   like a baking show it's a baking [TS]

00:25:54   competition show and h we could be like [TS]

00:25:56   bread week or pastry weekend things and [TS]

00:25:59   they all have to do these challenges and [TS]

00:26:00   they have to make their own recipes and [TS]

00:26:02   it's a competition and it's really good [TS]

00:26:04   fun and it's got these two hosts who are [TS]

00:26:06   really funny these two women who [TS]

00:26:08   deliberately make lots of corny puns and [TS]

00:26:10   its kind of the tweet joke about and [TS]

00:26:13   there are these two judges this I'll [TS]

00:26:14   grumpy York sherman who is a expert on [TS]

00:26:18   baking bread but he's also a bit of a [TS]

00:26:19   silver fox [TS]

00:26:20   so I think he's been a housewives a rip [TS]

00:26:22   and this old lady you think she's in [TS]

00:26:26   about 80 years old or something like [TS]

00:26:27   that and she's like everybody's [TS]

00:26:29   grandmother she's called Mary berry and [TS]

00:26:31   she's like a celebrity chef for a [TS]

00:26:33   million years in England and now she's [TS]

00:26:34   this matriarch and these two other [TS]

00:26:36   judges and they decide each week who [TS]

00:26:39   goes home so it's the contest and [TS]

00:26:41   everyone in the country gets gripped by [TS]

00:26:43   who's going to go home this week and [TS]

00:26:44   who's gonna win the bake-off this year [TS]

00:26:46   ok so there is an elimination round each [TS]

00:26:48   episode yeah someone's getting booted [TS]

00:26:50   off the island who's it going to be [TS]

00:26:52   exactly ok it's quite arbitrary just the [TS]

00:26:54   judges decide but it's based on these [TS]

00:26:57   three things they do throughout the [TS]

00:26:58   episode and there's like a star Baker [TS]

00:27:00   who wins for the week that means nothing [TS]

00:27:02   except a little bit of glory and then [TS]

00:27:03   one person gets booted off and then the [TS]

00:27:06   last man or woman standing windsor I [TS]

00:27:08   think it's been 10 6 or 7 series and [TS]

00:27:10   it's just growing in popularity it's [TS]

00:27:12   become a real institution and the media [TS]

00:27:15   is obsessed with it and like they're [TS]

00:27:16   always reporting on a market so-and-so [TS]

00:27:18   got booted off this weekend you believe [TS]

00:27:20   it up sometimes be on the front page of [TS]

00:27:21   newspapers and I think what's really [TS]

00:27:24   British about in some ways is I think [TS]

00:27:26   the British people revel in the trivial [TS]

00:27:28   and silver that but that's the scanner [TS]

00:27:30   will be you know so-and-so took [TS]

00:27:32   someone's legs by mistake and you know [TS]

00:27:34   so and so's left something in the oven [TS]

00:27:36   for too long and burn the cake and and [TS]

00:27:39   it becomes this big national story and I [TS]

00:27:40   think everyone's kind of in on the joke [TS]

00:27:42   that was so obsessed with this baking [TS]

00:27:44   competition is it a joke now I mean [TS]

00:27:46   human politics seemed to be vicious [TS]

00:27:50   directly in proportion to their [TS]

00:27:52   pettiness many people seem to get the [TS]

00:27:54   most upset over the tiniest things [TS]

00:27:56   sometimes yeah although the thing is one [TS]

00:27:59   of the things that's so good about the [TS]

00:28:00   show it's important to set a BBC show [TS]

00:28:02   it's made by production company but it's [TS]

00:28:04   always been on the baby say and I think [TS]

00:28:06   one of the things that makes the Great [TS]

00:28:07   British Bake of different from other [TS]

00:28:08   shows is there isn't a really pleasant [TS]

00:28:12   streak running through it no one's ever [TS]

00:28:14   angry anyone gets booted off they're [TS]

00:28:16   always very gracious they always help [TS]

00:28:19   each other the contestants when these [TS]

00:28:22   scandals happen when someone you know [TS]

00:28:23   take someone's thing out of the fridge [TS]

00:28:25   early people never get angry at each [TS]

00:28:27   other it's like it's really good [TS]

00:28:29   spirited it's just in a cynical world of [TS]

00:28:32   evil is this like bastion of like [TS]

00:28:36   Isis it's just nice in a tent where [TS]

00:28:39   everyone's baking cakes [TS]

00:28:40   it's always pretty and even when someone [TS]

00:28:43   burns their cake maryberry the old [TS]

00:28:45   granny or tell them they tried hard and [TS]

00:28:46   like it's just this lovely thing right [TS]

00:28:49   ok it's huge at the moment and like 10 [TS]

00:28:52   11 million people are watching our awake [TS]

00:28:54   and what happened this week was the [TS]

00:28:56   production company that made a are [TS]

00:28:58   obviously pretty Grady had been trying [TS]

00:29:00   to extract every last cent out of the [TS]

00:29:02   baby say and they just wanted too much [TS]

00:29:04   money for the show and the BBC what [TS]

00:29:07   we're not buying that and everyone [TS]

00:29:09   obviously wants this show so one of the [TS]

00:29:10   commercial television stations in the UK [TS]

00:29:13   channel 4 have swooped and paid some [TS]

00:29:16   ridiculous amount of money like 75 [TS]

00:29:18   million pounds for the show Luo so the [TS]

00:29:20   next series of that next year's gonna be [TS]

00:29:22   on channel 4 and this was a huge story [TS]

00:29:25   because the baby see you know is an [TS]

00:29:27   institution obviously and this is one of [TS]

00:29:29   their key shows and have lost this show [TS]

00:29:31   it's been stolen and there's huge [TS]

00:29:33   amounts of money involved and everyone [TS]

00:29:35   was like how can you believe it you know [TS]

00:29:37   it's leaving the baby say sounds like [TS]

00:29:38   the BBC always loses their big shows the [TS]

00:29:40   this happened with top here by [TS]

00:29:43   remembering that even remotely correctly [TS]

00:29:45   was top gear BBC yes that's for [TS]

00:29:47   different reasons but it is true the [TS]

00:29:49   baby sometimes do lose their stars [TS]

00:29:51   because they get poached off but that's [TS]

00:29:52   why this is so interesting because i [TS]

00:29:55   always think when the BBC makes someone [TS]

00:29:57   really famous like a news presenter or a [TS]

00:29:59   TV presenter and they very often get [TS]

00:30:01   paged by the corporate channels right [TS]

00:30:03   that can get off of them bigger salaries [TS]

00:30:05   and then they kind of just sort of [TS]

00:30:06   disappear because the baby say while not [TS]

00:30:09   being able to pay you quite as much has [TS]

00:30:12   all the profile it has all the reach it [TS]

00:30:14   has the market penetration and it's what [TS]

00:30:17   makes you famous [TS]

00:30:18   so it's interesting how often people [TS]

00:30:19   become famous on the BBC think they're [TS]

00:30:21   Charlie big potatoes go over to a [TS]

00:30:24   commercial Network and then they just [TS]

00:30:25   disappear into nothingness because the [TS]

00:30:28   BBC's not making them famous anymore so [TS]

00:30:30   everyone's like what's going to happen [TS]

00:30:32   to the Great British Bake Off and it [TS]

00:30:33   goes channel 4 is it still going to be [TS]

00:30:35   as nice and good or is now going to be [TS]

00:30:37   commercials and there was going to be [TS]

00:30:38   trying to sell you products all the time [TS]

00:30:40   and blue is it going to lose its magic [TS]

00:30:42   right so I know this is gripping boy [TS]

00:30:45   so anyway the next day the two hosts who [TS]

00:30:50   are really funny and really make the [TS]

00:30:51   show huh [TS]

00:30:52   these two comedians I mentioned record [TS]

00:30:54   melon so they announced publicly we're [TS]

00:30:57   not going to chase the dough they said [TS]

00:30:58   to use a patent good and they said we're [TS]

00:31:01   not going we're going to stay at the BBC [TS]

00:31:02   we're not going to be on the show [TS]

00:31:03   anymore and everyone's like oh my [TS]

00:31:05   goodness this is amazing what with a [TS]

00:31:07   bake-off be like without the host [TS]

00:31:09   anymore can't believe this happened and [TS]

00:31:11   then the next day unbelievably maryberry [TS]

00:31:15   the old grandmother of cooking also says [TS]

00:31:19   I'm not going either [TS]

00:31:20   my loyalties to the BBC the BBC made [TS]

00:31:22   this show what is I wish everyone luck [TS]

00:31:25   and have fun but i'm not going to [TS]

00:31:27   channel for either so all of a sudden [TS]

00:31:29   channel 4 has paid like you know 75 [TS]

00:31:31   million pounds basically for one judge [TS]

00:31:35   and a tent in a go ahead and and they've [TS]

00:31:38   lost or left stars of the show and now [TS]

00:31:40   everyone's thinking well is she gonna be [TS]

00:31:42   any good but now there's all this [TS]

00:31:43   intellectual property stuff going on and [TS]

00:31:45   everyone saying maybe the BBC gonna make [TS]

00:31:48   their own baking show you just keep all [TS]

00:31:49   the same hosts and it makes you wonder [TS]

00:31:51   what channel 4 of bored [TS]

00:31:52   this is the strange thing with the world [TS]

00:31:54   of companies acquiring things for talent [TS]

00:31:58   for talented people [TS]

00:32:00   yeah if you're buying the show but this [TS]

00:32:04   old granny she's not going your silver [TS]

00:32:06   fox guy isn't going no silver foxes [TS]

00:32:09   going he's the one he is chasing the [TS]

00:32:11   dough [TS]

00:32:12   okay well yeah that's because he's a [TS]

00:32:14   smart silver fox right there that's why [TS]

00:32:16   his name is Paul Hollywood tell you what [TS]

00:32:17   you love that it's yeah it's also it's [TS]

00:32:25   so I'm British I know that's not real [TS]

00:32:31   that's like an actor's guild name that [TS]

00:32:33   can't be real living out his actual name [TS]

00:32:34   my name is max power think no it's not [TS]

00:32:37   but it's an interesting question about [TS]

00:32:40   like what have you bought what is a show [TS]

00:32:44   how do you transfer it from one location [TS]

00:32:45   to another [TS]

00:32:47   who are the key players in this like how [TS]

00:32:51   do you get the loyalty of the people of [TS]

00:32:52   necessary to make the thing [TS]

00:32:54   work i often those with TV shows in [TS]

00:32:57   general like everybody knows this [TS]

00:32:59   experience that you're watching a TV [TS]

00:33:00   show in the first two seasons are [TS]

00:33:02   amazing and then the next couple sees [TS]

00:33:04   anything like I really just lost all of [TS]

00:33:06   its don't like what happened with this [TS]

00:33:08   isn't so good anymore and it every time [TS]

00:33:10   I've ever investigated you find that [TS]

00:33:12   it's like a couple of key people have [TS]

00:33:14   left em and I am absolutely convinced [TS]

00:33:18   and I have this theory that almost any [TS]

00:33:22   kind of media production like a TV show [TS]

00:33:25   or like a movie is much much more [TS]

00:33:29   dependent on a handful like maybe three [TS]

00:33:33   or four key people than you think it is [TS]

00:33:36   that like one or two writers make all of [TS]

00:33:39   the difference in the show being really [TS]

00:33:41   good or not being really good yeah just [TS]

00:33:43   like a couple of key people on a movie [TS]

00:33:45   are what makes the difference between [TS]

00:33:47   like why is this movie amazing and this [TS]

00:33:49   movie isn't there like a talent [TS]

00:33:51   disproportionate here if I was like a [TS]

00:33:54   network buying a TV show I feel like [TS]

00:33:56   that would be one of my primary concerns [TS]

00:33:58   is trying to isolate something like the [TS]

00:33:59   Great British Bake Off and from the [TS]

00:34:02   outside trying to figure out like who [TS]

00:34:04   were the actual vital people and we have [TS]

00:34:07   to make sure that they're on board and [TS]

00:34:09   that they're coming along and it sounds [TS]

00:34:11   like these two hosts were part of like [TS]

00:34:14   the charm of the show and like oh now by [TS]

00:34:17   trying to buy this thing you have broken [TS]

00:34:19   this thing you've split these two key [TS]

00:34:21   hosts and maybe now everybody loses like [TS]

00:34:24   you've spent all this money for this [TS]

00:34:25   show and the BBC is also going to lose [TS]

00:34:28   because they've lost half of their vital [TS]

00:34:31   crew and now everybody sad and everybody [TS]

00:34:34   loses [TS]

00:34:34   i mean i won't go into all the details [TS]

00:34:36   because it's full of intrigue and [TS]

00:34:37   there's a lot of intrigue about the [TS]

00:34:38   rights and formats and things like that [TS]

00:34:40   but it's been it's been a huge story but [TS]

00:34:43   coming back just quickly to breaking [TS]

00:34:45   news and alerts and things there was a [TS]

00:34:47   breaking news story when Mary berry [TS]

00:34:49   they'll grandmarc wit it was like a [TS]

00:34:52   breaking news on Twitter BBC Mary very [TS]

00:34:54   quits the great british bake on and also [TS]

00:34:56   a few tweets and people saying I can't [TS]

00:34:58   believe that's breaking news like some [TS]

00:35:00   old lady quits hosting a TV show who but [TS]

00:35:03   I tell you what that's the first story [TS]

00:35:05   that's broken in weeks and weeks that [TS]

00:35:07   the mid [TS]

00:35:07   isaura i followed by wife immediately [TS]

00:35:09   I'm like you're looking about you but [TS]

00:35:11   you're not gonna believe what happened [TS]

00:35:12   very very quickly the back of like I'm [TS]

00:35:15   not bringing her upside you know what's [TS]

00:35:17   happening in politics or wars around the [TS]

00:35:19   world or lack disasters are a plane [TS]

00:35:21   crashes or anything it's like oh my [TS]

00:35:23   goodness I've got to tell my wife [TS]

00:35:25   immediately like this is huge and do you [TS]

00:35:29   want to know why you bring your wife to [TS]

00:35:31   tell her immediately that the woman has [TS]

00:35:33   left the Great British Bake Off because [TS]

00:35:35   unlike most of the things in the world [TS]

00:35:37   that the news reports on the supposed [TS]

00:35:39   important things this one directly [TS]

00:35:41   affects you every week if it messes up [TS]

00:35:43   with the TV show that you like right [TS]

00:35:45   like some genocide in Africa like [TS]

00:35:48   whatever it's not going to affect me [TS]

00:35:50   today [TS]

00:35:51   this is why you can brush it under the [TS]

00:35:52   rug and be like whatever tragedies [TS]

00:35:55   around the world like oh there was an [TS]

00:35:56   earthquake in some third-world country [TS]

00:35:59   and thousands are dead like how am I [TS]

00:36:01   going to tell anybody about it i'm going [TS]

00:36:02   to call anybody now not really like put [TS]

00:36:05   the Great British Bake Off this actually [TS]

00:36:07   affects you in a way every single week [TS]

00:36:10   if your show is ruined so that's why you [TS]

00:36:11   call this is what's happening here it's [TS]

00:36:15   is the dynamic of what is important in [TS]

00:36:18   the world versus what actually affects [TS]

00:36:21   you in a way that you care [TS]

00:36:22   yeah i'll tell you what else like it [TS]

00:36:25   does make me think it is interesting how [TS]

00:36:27   this touches on our world of you know [TS]

00:36:29   video making and podcasting and things [TS]

00:36:31   like that because if you decided [TS]

00:36:33   tomorrow that you'd had enough of making [TS]

00:36:35   YouTube videos and you want to pick that [TS]

00:36:37   up and you decided I k well I've created [TS]

00:36:39   this like brand and this channel and [TS]

00:36:41   this cool thing you couldn't do a thing [TS]

00:36:43   with it you couldn't so cgpgrey the [TS]

00:36:45   channel pudgy and walk away from her [TS]

00:36:47   because it has no worth without you so I [TS]

00:36:50   mean what could you do with that [TS]

00:36:51   not much not get your computer so the [TS]

00:36:53   rights to the back catalogue and stuff [TS]

00:36:55   and that's it's true [TS]

00:36:56   from a business perspective it's a [TS]

00:36:57   terrible decision i can't sell the thing [TS]

00:36:59   because i am the key person in my own [TS]

00:37:01   organization [TS]

00:37:03   yeah it has my name on it there's [TS]

00:37:06   nothing to sell here you have channels [TS]

00:37:08   to spare coming out of your pocket that [TS]

00:37:10   you could sell off to organizations ya [TS]

00:37:13   self numberphile tomorrow and period [TS]

00:37:16   videos next wing and yeah yeah and just [TS]

00:37:18   keep growing more channels [TS]

00:37:20   the hundred thousand subscribers here a [TS]

00:37:21   hundred thousand subscribers their sell [TS]

00:37:23   them off here i am just like an idiot [TS]

00:37:27   artistically crafting individual videos [TS]

00:37:30   into anything that is ultimately not a [TS]

00:37:32   sellable business not a fool I am [TS]

00:37:35   artisanal crafting videos listen to it [TS]

00:37:39   I can't believe channel 4 agreed to by [TS]

00:37:44   the show before now for the people were [TS]

00:37:46   locked in place [TS]

00:37:47   I mean they're not idiots they must have [TS]

00:37:50   known that this was there taking a blow [TS]

00:37:52   up in their face but it seems like [TS]

00:37:53   obviously see the value in it without [TS]

00:37:55   having the people locked in i'm sure [TS]

00:37:56   they made this decision but to outsiders [TS]

00:38:00   it seems crazy it seems like they bought [TS]

00:38:02   the thing and then they realized they [TS]

00:38:03   haven't got what they thought they got [TS]

00:38:04   but i'm sure they still think us worth [TS]

00:38:06   having the brand and the name and or [TS]

00:38:09   perhaps they simply overvalued how [TS]

00:38:11   convincing money is to an 80 year old [TS]

00:38:15   granny [TS]

00:38:15   yeah maybe they just assume let go of [TS]

00:38:17   course she'll go for the paycheck but if [TS]

00:38:20   you're an 80 year old granny I think [TS]

00:38:21   maybe you have a more ability just to [TS]

00:38:24   say now like i do this thing is of [TS]

00:38:27   course it shouldn't have seen if she was [TS]

00:38:28   going to sign on the line first but [TS]

00:38:30   before buying the whole thing I'm saying [TS]

00:38:33   it I'm just speculating [TS]

00:38:34   yeah sama sama i'm thinking maybe people [TS]

00:38:36   who think in terms of money would think [TS]

00:38:39   that it is much more convincing that [TS]

00:38:41   actually would be like who's gonna turn [TS]

00:38:43   down his crazy salary [TS]

00:38:45   yea marry barry is the one who's going [TS]

00:38:47   to turn down the salary yeah that's how [TS]

00:38:49   that goes [TS]

00:38:50   yep get breaking news has to be about [TS]

00:38:54   the things that people actually care [TS]

00:38:56   about the threats that makes it breaking [TS]

00:38:58   news like you have people care about [TS]

00:39:00   celebrity divorces and British Bake [TS]

00:39:03   off's backblaze is the unlimited native [TS]

00:39:07   backup solution for Macs and PCs for no [TS]

00:39:10   credit card required no risk-free 15-day [TS]

00:39:13   trial go to back plays dot-com / hello [TS]

00:39:17   internet now I think it's been a [TS]

00:39:18   tradition that guy and I are the good [TS]

00:39:20   cop and bad cop of these backblaze [TS]

00:39:22   sponsorship messages great fuse you with [TS]

00:39:25   fear that your computer now your whole [TS]

00:39:27   house is about to be lost to a huge [TS]

00:39:30   inferno and backblaze will save your did [TS]

00:39:33   little bacon and that is definitely [TS]

00:39:35   something you should bear in mind but [TS]

00:39:37   back plays is handy not just for those [TS]

00:39:40   worst-case scenarios for example it's [TS]

00:39:43   handy app means you can access your [TS]

00:39:45   online backup from your mobile device [TS]

00:39:48   so say there's a file you want to get [TS]

00:39:50   your hands on but you don't have [TS]

00:39:51   computer access back plays is the answer [TS]

00:39:54   now back plays now has over i think 250 [TS]

00:39:57   petabytes of people's data locked safely [TS]

00:40:00   away just in case i have no idea how [TS]

00:40:03   much that is but it sounds like a lot [TS]

00:40:05   they have also already sent over 15 [TS]

00:40:07   billion files back to customers who need [TS]

00:40:10   them after something went wrong you [TS]

00:40:13   could be one of those people so keep [TS]

00:40:15   that in mind and a reminder these are [TS]

00:40:17   external off-site backups not something [TS]

00:40:20   like a hard drive or time machine which [TS]

00:40:22   is also in you're so vulnerable house [TS]

00:40:24   now there are no gimmicks and no [TS]

00:40:26   additional charges it's five dollars a [TS]

00:40:28   month for unlimited and throttled back [TS]

00:40:30   up make sure you visit backblaze dot-com [TS]

00:40:32   / hello internet so there now you came [TS]

00:40:35   from here and continue to support the [TS]

00:40:37   show and remember there's a 15 day free [TS]

00:40:39   trial first try before you buy see how [TS]

00:40:42   you like it and then you can commit as [TS]

00:40:45   always thanks to back plays for not only [TS]

00:40:46   backing up my computer but for [TS]

00:40:48   supporting hello Internet great [TS]

00:40:52   communication quick view pictures we can [TS]

00:40:54   maybe let's see if it makes the cut [TS]

00:40:56   we're going to have a little same to [TS]

00:40:57   this one is Fisk one that the viewers [TS]

00:40:59   can will not use their listeners but [TS]

00:41:01   they're about to become viewers if they [TS]

00:41:02   choose to [TS]

00:41:03   they might be viewers if they're on the [TS]

00:41:04   hello internet YouTube that's true [TS]

00:41:05   that's true for all of our viewers are [TS]

00:41:07   ya confusing confusing people as so [TS]

00:41:11   multimedia world we live in [TS]

00:41:13   we're going to put these pictures in the [TS]

00:41:15   show notes the first one gray you [TS]

00:41:17   haven't sane okay and i just think this [TS]

00:41:19   was just fun i thought i'm gonna send [TS]

00:41:21   this to this has come from someone [TS]

00:41:22   called Adam he's in a group photo here [TS]

00:41:26   some visits it's the international [TS]

00:41:29   center for Theoretical Physics they had [TS]

00:41:32   a big group photo at their eighth [TS]

00:41:33   international conference on the exactly [TS]

00:41:35   normalization group which sounds awesome [TS]

00:41:37   it was held in Italy this huge photo and [TS]

00:41:40   he proudly says I decided to wear my [TS]

00:41:43   reunion swamp an official bird of hello [TS]

00:41:46   internet t-shirt for the group photo and [TS]

00:41:48   I just think it's fun to look at the [TS]

00:41:50   photo and see if you can find that [TS]

00:41:51   because it's a huge group of people and [TS]

00:41:53   one person there is wearing a reunion [TS]

00:41:55   swamp ENT shit have you found it yet [TS]

00:41:57   great i'm looking and looking don't give [TS]

00:41:59   it away when you find it ok you know why [TS]

00:42:03   when you find that all know why when i [TS]

00:42:04   find it huh [TS]

00:42:05   ok looking looking looking not as easy [TS]

00:42:08   as you thought hey when sao i think it's [TS]

00:42:10   going to be easy [TS]

00:42:11   I never said that did I say you said it [TS]

00:42:13   I said you thought it [TS]

00:42:15   no I didn't say you said it but I didn't [TS]

00:42:17   think it sent me a picture of a whole [TS]

00:42:18   bunch of people never even thought it [TS]

00:42:19   all right never even thought I think [TS]

00:42:21   there is nobody wearing every Union [TS]

00:42:23   swamp had t-shirts in this photo [TS]

00:42:25   nobody's wearing your uniform been I you [TS]

00:42:27   are wrong [TS]

00:42:28   someone is and there is the way as [TS]

00:42:29   worldly challenge can you find the [TS]

00:42:31   person wearing the reunion Swamp man [TS]

00:42:33   t-shirt there is a twist to it [TS]

00:42:35   ya figure there's a twist the twist is [TS]

00:42:38   proving beyond my capabilities right now [TS]

00:42:40   you want me to tell you and you can kind [TS]

00:42:42   of that [TS]

00:42:42   yeah you tell me to shut up haha i could [TS]

00:42:47   have spent a hundred years looking at [TS]

00:42:49   this photo and I would have never seen [TS]

00:42:50   that there you go [TS]

00:42:52   so here's the other one which you have [TS]

00:42:53   seen and again can you find the hello [TS]

00:42:57   Internet fan or yes you can this time [TS]

00:42:58   but it still has a sort of Where's Wally [TS]

00:43:00   component to it because the fan is so [TS]

00:43:01   small in such a big picture but I'll [TS]

00:43:04   read you the message that goes with this [TS]

00:43:05   is a nice message dear dr. heron say [TS]

00:43:09   people are learning i'm a big fan of the [TS]

00:43:11   hoi podcast and I know that you love [TS]

00:43:12   mountains so i made a special picture [TS]

00:43:14   while I was hiking in Norway this place [TS]

00:43:17   is called trolltunga which means a ton [TS]

00:43:20   of a trial [TS]

00:43:20   it's a piece of rock jutting [TS]

00:43:22   horizontally out of a mountain about 700 [TS]

00:43:25   meters above the lake i had to stay in [TS]

00:43:27   the mountains overnight in order to be [TS]

00:43:29   there in early morning normally the [TS]

00:43:31   height x 10 to 12 hours i hope you and [TS]

00:43:34   maybe gray will like it [TS]

00:43:36   best regards stand that is a fantastic [TS]

00:43:40   photo it's amazing isn't it [TS]

00:43:42   it's a really epic hello Internet [TS]

00:43:45   someone brought the flag to an amazing [TS]

00:43:48   location photo in no small part because [TS]

00:43:50   i am incredibly biased towards the [TS]

00:43:53   particular beauty of Norway I think [TS]

00:43:54   normally looks amazing and this photo of [TS]

00:43:59   being in the mountains holding up the [TS]

00:44:01   flag with the reflection in the water [TS]

00:44:03   below is fantastic [TS]

00:44:06   this makes me so happy to see the hello [TS]

00:44:08   Internet flag in a stunning location so [TS]

00:44:11   well done on this one this is absolutely [TS]

00:44:14   great [TS]

00:44:15   it's amazing for people who have not [TS]

00:44:17   saying I mean look at the picture in the [TS]

00:44:18   show notes but also just going to put [TS]

00:44:19   more pictures of this trial hunger [TS]

00:44:21   it's an amazing place that even if it [TS]

00:44:24   didn't have this ridiculous pace of rock [TS]

00:44:25   jutting out on this unnatural angle the [TS]

00:44:29   view is just incredible of a leg below [TS]

00:44:31   and mountains and greenery and snow and [TS]

00:44:33   it slices [TS]

00:44:34   it's incredible but i have since been [TS]

00:44:36   reading a little bit more about [TS]

00:44:37   trolltunga and some people got in touch [TS]

00:44:40   after i tweeted a picture of this mid [TS]

00:44:42   wake parents becoming of a controversial [TS]

00:44:44   place for sort of safety reasons because [TS]

00:44:47   more and more people are trying to get [TS]

00:44:49   to it's not easy to get to but more and [TS]

00:44:50   more people are going there and taking [TS]

00:44:52   photos [TS]

00:44:53   it doesn't look like the world's safest [TS]

00:44:54   place to stand and in fact I was just [TS]

00:44:57   reading that recently a tourist or not [TS]

00:45:00   tourists i think it was an exchange [TS]

00:45:01   student from australia was on the trail [TS]

00:45:03   tunga asking to have their photo taken [TS]

00:45:06   and stepped backward didn't look what [TS]

00:45:09   they were doing while they were having [TS]

00:45:09   their picture taken and fell offer that [TS]

00:45:13   didn't end well obviously but they can't [TS]

00:45:14   put safety rails on it so whether we [TS]

00:45:17   should be encouraging people with this [TS]

00:45:18   photo is probably questionable to but [TS]

00:45:20   I'd certainly go there would you go and [TS]

00:45:22   stand there in every picture taken [TS]

00:45:24   I don't know that kind of thing makes me [TS]

00:45:26   a little bit nervous I'm it does look [TS]

00:45:29   perilous doesn't happen [TS]

00:45:31   yeah it looks absolutely perilous i [TS]

00:45:33   don't know i think if i was there on the [TS]

00:45:35   day i might not go very far out on the [TS]

00:45:38   troll tongue there but people are always [TS]

00:45:41   going to risk their lives for this kind [TS]

00:45:42   of stuff and it looks like an awesomely [TS]

00:45:44   beautiful place to risk your life if [TS]

00:45:46   you're gonna do this and so you would go [TS]

00:45:47   out to the tip of the tongue but maybe [TS]

00:45:49   you just go partway like to the middle [TS]

00:45:51   of something the am i might go part way [TS]

00:45:54   but look at something like that and [TS]

00:45:55   think it's gonna break some day and or [TS]

00:45:58   might be quite windy right but i'm sure [TS]

00:46:02   you Brady would just crawl out right to [TS]

00:46:04   the edge wouldn't you be on the edge [TS]

00:46:07   I don't know I I am cautious with hearts [TS]

00:46:09   but i remember when i was in the [TS]

00:46:11   forbidden kingdom of it [TS]

00:46:12   and we walked up to a place called [TS]

00:46:14   Tiger's Nest monastery which is this [TS]

00:46:16   incredible monastery perched why up on a [TS]

00:46:18   cliff and I saw big long walk along all [TS]

00:46:21   these rocky paths along the cliff and we [TS]

00:46:23   stopped at one point where lots and lots [TS]

00:46:24   of people take photos because it's [TS]

00:46:26   amazing you're looking from 1click [TS]

00:46:27   across to the other and our guards that [TS]

00:46:30   are you know what was actually just a [TS]

00:46:31   few weeks ago a tourist from Thailand [TS]

00:46:33   was having their photo taken right where [TS]

00:46:34   you are but they leaned against the [TS]

00:46:36   wooden hand rail which they shouldn't [TS]

00:46:38   have done and the handrail gave way and [TS]

00:46:40   they just went right off the cliff all [TS]

00:46:41   the way to the bottom and when I was [TS]

00:46:43   told that story affected me like you [TS]

00:46:45   know when you're standing at the place [TS]

00:46:47   where it happened and look at your total [TS]

00:46:48   few weeks ago someone fell down there [TS]

00:46:50   suddenly you're like gosh [TS]

00:46:53   and then every time you have a photo [TS]

00:46:54   taken your like setting your fate and [TS]

00:46:56   making sure you stand the right place [TS]

00:46:58   and it's so easy when you're taking [TS]

00:47:01   photos to do something stupid [TS]

00:47:02   yeah especially because you're so often [TS]

00:47:04   looking away from the data right yeah if [TS]

00:47:07   you drive back up to get into frame and [TS]

00:47:08   what's over you go especially seeing [TS]

00:47:10   Stan was holding this flag when you had [TS]

00:47:12   that picture taken like a big sail so [TS]

00:47:14   i'm not sure how wise that was but he [TS]

00:47:18   lived to send the email say [TS]

00:47:20   remember I told you about this is [TS]

00:47:23   company that every three months or every [TS]

00:47:25   six months sends me this bill 42 pounds [TS]

00:47:28   for this ground rent or something where [TS]

00:47:30   i live in this house [TS]

00:47:31   so anyway I got my latest invoice from [TS]

00:47:34   them two pounds which I have to pee [TS]

00:47:36   every six months just to live in my [TS]

00:47:38   house because of some out [TS]

00:47:39   eighteen-hundreds law right right i [TS]

00:47:42   resent it but i have to do it so we [TS]

00:47:44   wrote the check this morning and i'm [TS]

00:47:46   about to send it off but what I did was [TS]

00:47:48   I put it in an envelope and then I [TS]

00:47:51   followed the envelope in half three or [TS]

00:47:53   four times and then wrapped all the [TS]

00:47:54   sticky tape around it and then I put it [TS]

00:47:56   in like another envelope and I wrapped [TS]

00:47:58   in all this packing tape and things like [TS]

00:48:00   that and that I put in a third envelope [TS]

00:48:02   already take that up because if they're [TS]

00:48:04   going to get their two-pound check off [TS]

00:48:05   me like I want them to work for I wanted [TS]

00:48:08   to do two pounds of work to get to it so [TS]

00:48:10   i have created this big like pass the [TS]

00:48:13   parcel taped-up thing if they will get [TS]

00:48:16   want to get their check [TS]

00:48:18   I don't know I was just like in a half [TS]

00:48:20   funny half weird mode and I did and I've [TS]

00:48:22   got it on my desk now I'm thinking [TS]

00:48:24   you know which would be ironic if i [TS]

00:48:26   decide not to do it because then I'm [TS]

00:48:27   going to be the one that has to dig into [TS]

00:48:29   an underwater these envelopes and cut [TS]

00:48:31   all the tape and everything ok [TS]

00:48:32   I mean this there's so many things i [TS]

00:48:34   really don't even know where to begin [TS]

00:48:36   ok let me send your picture part of okay [TS]

00:48:39   you're gonna make me feel bad now I and [TS]

00:48:41   now I can just tell from your tone [TS]

00:48:43   it's like you're not angry maybe you're [TS]

00:48:45   disappointed i think what the thing i [TS]

00:48:46   sent you is one of the envelopes going [TS]

00:48:48   into one of the other envelopes [TS]

00:48:49   okay you're disappointed in me I ok so I [TS]

00:48:53   feel like I want to walk you through a [TS]

00:48:55   few things here Brady now how to think [TS]

00:48:57   about the world and i guess for [TS]

00:49:02   listeners who don't remember the details [TS]

00:49:03   this was just because there's some [TS]

00:49:05   company which collects up a bunch of old [TS]

00:49:06   title deeds and land deeds like this is [TS]

00:49:09   their entire business having people pay [TS]

00:49:11   them small amounts of money from [TS]

00:49:12   contractor like 200 years old on some [TS]

00:49:15   technicality and so Brady has to pay [TS]

00:49:17   this little fee two pounds every six [TS]

00:49:19   months or whatever was because of some [TS]

00:49:22   land deal from 300 here is ya up so this [TS]

00:49:25   is love the UK for this guy's stuff yeah [TS]

00:49:27   so first of all let me say that I can [TS]

00:49:31   sympathize with your frustration about [TS]

00:49:33   the situation [TS]

00:49:34   ok I too would find it very frustrating [TS]

00:49:36   to be in this situation [TS]

00:49:38   okay okay right so I like we're on the [TS]

00:49:40   same page here [TS]

00:49:42   I can however when I don't understand is [TS]

00:49:46   why on earth would you take more of your [TS]

00:49:52   time to cause essentially a trivial [TS]

00:49:56   amount of frustration to whatever [TS]

00:49:59   company is in charge of doing this sort [TS]

00:50:01   of stuff em like you have changed the [TS]

00:50:04   situation from Annoying company for from [TS]

00:50:06   old technicality is getting two pounds [TS]

00:50:08   off of me to company is getting two [TS]

00:50:11   pounds off of me and they're costing me [TS]

00:50:14   whatever it is 20 minutes of my life [TS]

00:50:17   more than is necessary and she was [TS]

00:50:20   sitting there folding of the check [TS]

00:50:22   scratch you didn't envelope i could see [TS]

00:50:24   wrapping it in this brown tape you're [TS]

00:50:26   going to stick it in another envelope [TS]

00:50:28   I mean I hate to say this Brady but this [TS]

00:50:31   actually looks really ineffective like [TS]

00:50:32   how long do you think it's going to take [TS]

00:50:33   someone with a pair of scissors to get [TS]

00:50:34   through this envelope i think five [TS]

00:50:36   seconds right stuff wasn't thinking [TS]

00:50:38   clicking scissors i would just cut open [TS]

00:50:40   the top there's no way you even caused [TS]

00:50:41   real inconvenience here this to me is [TS]

00:50:44   like pointless human frustration [TS]

00:50:47   manifested i know i say i've thought [TS]

00:50:50   about that great because the final [TS]

00:50:52   envelope is folded several times and [TS]

00:50:55   then taped so if you just cut it you [TS]

00:50:56   will also cut the check so you have to [TS]

00:50:59   be careful how you open the envelope [TS]

00:51:01   right buddy but here's the thing if they [TS]

00:51:03   cut the check out what do they care [TS]

00:51:06   the check is just null and void and [TS]

00:51:08   they'll just kill you again right [TS]

00:51:09   Thank I guess what I'm trying to walk [TS]

00:51:11   through here is like what's your endgame [TS]

00:51:14   here Brady what change do you wish to [TS]

00:51:16   effect in the world right [TS]

00:51:18   it was cathartic did you feel better [TS]

00:51:21   after doing this [TS]

00:51:22   yes yeah you feel better ya doing it but [TS]

00:51:26   now I don't because now you're making me [TS]

00:51:27   feel bad about it i was sitting there [TS]

00:51:31   checking away from myself thinking how [TS]

00:51:33   hard this show and her you know thinking [TS]

00:51:35   this is fun and you know it was like a [TS]

00:51:38   little fun thing for a few minutes and [TS]

00:51:39   still when I think about a brady sitting [TS]

00:51:43   down at his desk receiving a bill for [TS]

00:51:45   two pounds and instead of just writing [TS]

00:51:49   out the check and sending it off [TS]

00:51:51   gathering together tape and envelopes [TS]

00:51:55   and thinking about how to fold it in [TS]

00:51:57   such a way to be frustrating to the [TS]

00:51:58   person who's receiving it [TS]

00:52:01   i know i have no other way to describe [TS]

00:52:03   this then what is in my mind which is [TS]

00:52:05   like this is just childish venting [TS]

00:52:09   that's what that's what it feels like it [TS]

00:52:11   just feels like you're a little kid who [TS]

00:52:13   is pointlessly flailing against the [TS]

00:52:16   system you should just pay the two [TS]

00:52:18   pounds you know if it makes you happy [TS]

00:52:20   braiding I can't argue against that I [TS]

00:52:22   mean I can't totally disagree with you [TS]

00:52:24   but I mean I see it as being akin to the [TS]

00:52:29   people who like respond to spare but [TS]

00:52:30   emails now I get spammed to string the [TS]

00:52:33   Milan away some of their time [TS]

00:52:34   mhm and that also is pointless and [TS]

00:52:37   childish but let's just something [TS]

00:52:40   sometimes people do not i think i'm [TS]

00:52:41   doing the snail mail equivalent of that [TS]

00:52:44   like they've automated their frustration [TS]

00:52:46   process they've obviously got this [TS]

00:52:47   printer that's a thousand years old that [TS]

00:52:49   Prince these things and online [TS]

00:52:51   tricks and you send it to some post box [TS]

00:52:53   and you know they're impossible to speak [TS]

00:52:55   with and so they're obviously just this [TS]

00:52:56   got this lumbering frustration machine [TS]

00:52:59   where they've just minimizing all of [TS]

00:53:02   their costs and effort to make this [TS]

00:53:04   money so I'm like well if you're gonna [TS]

00:53:06   do that if you're going to minimize all [TS]

00:53:08   of your effort to take my money i'm [TS]

00:53:10   going to try and make you at least up [TS]

00:53:11   here for a little bit lazy bones is I [TS]

00:53:17   don't stupid and when I like with a big [TS]

00:53:19   smile on my face went downstairs and [TS]

00:53:20   shared my wife what I did and so the [TS]

00:53:22   woman nice that's when I knew it was [TS]

00:53:24   stupid as well that was gonna ask how I [TS]

00:53:27   was gonna see if it's just like I just [TS]

00:53:31   don't think she had the energy to even [TS]

00:53:33   like comment she was just like rolled [TS]

00:53:35   her eyes and I enjoy that scene in my [TS]

00:53:37   mind where your wife thinks you have [TS]

00:53:38   been upstairs busy doing something [TS]

00:53:40   productive [TS]

00:53:41   he come to an intersection back its [TS]

00:53:44   check your water it up taped up on but [TS]

00:53:47   to give out liner frustration to a [TS]

00:53:50   company that you need to pay two pounds [TS]

00:53:51   to the light out [TS]

00:53:54   is this what you do all day it is that [TS]

00:53:57   you're doing something useful know Brady [TS]

00:54:02   causing pointless frustration to others [TS]

00:54:05   so here's the question right I kind of [TS]

00:54:07   realize now that I've made a mistake [TS]

00:54:09   wrap okay but I've already done right [TS]

00:54:12   I've done is sealed it's addressed [TS]

00:54:14   should i go to the trouble of opening [TS]

00:54:16   all my self extracting the check and [TS]

00:54:19   just sending it in a normal envelope [TS]

00:54:20   when you said this before why don't you [TS]

00:54:23   just throw it away and write a new check [TS]

00:54:24   if you're going to do that and that's [TS]

00:54:26   true that's true [TS]

00:54:27   you get it cause yourself father [TS]

00:54:28   frustrate harder because this little [TS]

00:54:30   piece of pipe no greatest and there's [TS]

00:54:31   another the second piece of paper you [TS]

00:54:33   have to attach with the check that it [TS]

00:54:35   comes with their know who the checks [TS]

00:54:36   from so i would have to open it to get [TS]

00:54:38   that second piece of paper so i can't [TS]

00:54:41   just throw it away with the check and [TS]

00:54:42   write another check [TS]

00:54:43   I you just have to send it now Brady you [TS]

00:54:45   just have to send it i would be willing [TS]

00:54:46   to bet you one pound em that you will [TS]

00:54:49   simply just receive another bill from [TS]

00:54:51   this company right they're going to get [TS]

00:54:53   this envelope just throw it away and [TS]

00:54:55   then later in their system six months [TS]

00:54:57   down the line they're gonna send you a [TS]

00:54:58   bill for four pounds that's what's going [TS]

00:55:00   to happen [TS]

00:55:00   that's my bet no one's even going to [TS]

00:55:02   open this envelope I'm just trying to do [TS]

00:55:04   the math in my head to see whether it's [TS]

00:55:05   worth taking that bet and what they're [TS]

00:55:07   all the implications will be because [TS]

00:55:10   then I'd have to pay five pounds if I [TS]

00:55:11   lose the bet if i win the bet you pay [TS]

00:55:14   half of my next to pants can I get back [TS]

00:55:17   to you on that [TS]

00:55:18   okay you let me know if you spend 30 [TS]

00:55:21   minutes working out the odds of whether [TS]

00:55:23   or not it makes sense to accept this [TS]

00:55:25   one-pound bet you go right ahead and [TS]

00:55:27   then I will be happy to accept or reject [TS]

00:55:30   based on whatever you want to do buddy [TS]

00:55:32   you have another fruitful 30 minutes of [TS]

00:55:35   doing something for a trivial amount of [TS]

00:55:37   money if not everything is about money [TS]

00:55:40   they're not everything is about time too [TS]

00:55:42   many sometimes you do something just [TS]

00:55:44   because you do it like not everything [TS]

00:55:48   can have like a cost-benefit analysis [TS]

00:55:50   attached to it I think everything has a [TS]

00:55:52   cost benefit analysis attached to it [TS]

00:55:54   this episode of Hello internet is [TS]

00:55:57   brought to you in part by Harry's [TS]

00:55:59   Harry's is the place to go online to buy [TS]

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00:56:36   always a problem that I've had when I [TS]

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00:56:41   that you can get what you're going to [TS]

00:56:43   want to do is go to Harry's dot-com h [TS]

00:56:47   Arry is they have a big banner there [TS]

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00:56:56   which includes their Truman a razor with [TS]

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00:57:03   you about two weeks plus you get to [TS]

00:57:05   choose what color you're great-looking [TS]

00:57:07   Harry's razor is going to be olive green [TS]

00:57:10   blue or or [TS]

00:57:11   French when you decide what you want [TS]

00:57:13   just make sure to use the offer code to [TS]

00:57:16   get that special bonus of their post [TS]

00:57:19   shave balm if you're out there and you [TS]

00:57:22   want a great shave with great-looking [TS]

00:57:25   high-quality equipment at a great price [TS]

00:57:28   that also you don't have to leave the [TS]

00:57:32   house for Harry's is totally for you [TS]

00:57:36   so right now if you need a shave if [TS]

00:57:39   you're looking a bit scruffy if you put [TS]

00:57:40   your hand on your neck and you can feel [TS]

00:57:42   that you need a good shave go to Harry's [TS]

00:57:45   dot-com you have nothing to lose [TS]

00:57:48   just cover the cost of shipping and you [TS]

00:57:50   get to try their free starter set plus [TS]

00:57:53   you get the shave balm use offer code [TS]

00:57:56   eh I at checkout and look great thanks [TS]

00:58:00   to harry's for supporting the show [TS]

00:58:02   tell me about YouTube heroes it seems [TS]

00:58:06   like we can go between two podcasts [TS]

00:58:08   without YouTube coming up with another [TS]

00:58:10   hairbrained scheme upsets everyone and [TS]

00:58:13   this YouTube heroes thing has been the [TS]

00:58:15   latest kerfuffle to me filling up my [TS]

00:58:18   favorite the last couple of weeks I've [TS]

00:58:19   been pretty busy with my work and I [TS]

00:58:21   haven't really dipped into these things [TS]

00:58:23   but I know about this thing called [TS]

00:58:25   YouTube heroes and my understanding of [TS]

00:58:27   it is like people can flag content and [TS]

00:58:30   they're going to give these people [TS]

00:58:31   powers they shouldn't have to ruin their [TS]

00:58:33   careers and can you talk me through it [TS]

00:58:36   gray can you give me the idiots guard [TS]

00:58:39   yes well that's a sigh I'm settling back [TS]

00:58:43   at i'm leaning back tell me all about it [TS]

00:58:48   yeah youtube heroes I mean first of all [TS]

00:58:52   i have to say how much i absolutely love [TS]

00:58:55   that name [TS]

00:58:56   it's a fantastic program [TS]

00:58:59   yeah you two heroes doesn't make me [TS]

00:59:01   cringe in any way that doesn't make me [TS]

00:59:04   feel like it's overblown in the [TS]

00:59:06   slightest it inspires me [TS]

00:59:08   do you feel inspired by braiding day I [TS]

00:59:10   want to be a youtube here would you like [TS]

00:59:12   to be a hero at Howdy's silver buttons [TS]

00:59:15   does when required to become an Aug be [TS]

00:59:17   right i don't know maybe 10 maybe ten [TS]

00:59:20   maybe ten i don't know i don't know any [TS]

00:59:22   of this stuff you've got to tell me [TS]

00:59:23   ok so naff night [TS]

00:59:25   obviously yeah obviously an F name and [TS]

00:59:28   if i was going to rename it just to show [TS]

00:59:32   my hand at the beginning of this i [TS]

00:59:35   propose to alternative names for the [TS]

00:59:37   YouTube Heroes program [TS]

00:59:39   yep it should be either called YouTube [TS]

00:59:42   tools or YouTube whole monitors ok this [TS]

00:59:49   is the way I feel about this [TS]

00:59:50   ok that's like pre fits yeah okay so [TS]

00:59:55   what YouTube is that rolled out just [TS]

00:59:56   earlier this week as we are recording is [TS]

00:59:56   earlier this week as we are recording is [TS]

01:00:00   essentially a kind of moderation program [TS]

01:00:04   that they're implementing and so they [TS]

01:00:07   put up this little youtube video with [TS]

01:00:09   happy music and little cartoon [TS]

01:00:11   characters try to explain this program [TS]

01:00:16   whereby which some YouTube users can [TS]

01:00:20   apply to become a hero and what a hero [TS]

01:00:25   can do is a hero has abilities to flag [TS]

01:00:30   videos and to moderate content in some [TS]

01:00:35   ambiguous not clearly defined way and to [TS]

01:00:39   add subtitles to youtube videos these [TS]

01:00:43   seem to be the primary things but what [TS]

01:00:46   everybody kind of flipped out about is [TS]

01:00:49   this notion that there's some level of [TS]

01:00:51   people that have the ability to flag [TS]

01:00:55   what was originally labeled as like [TS]

01:00:57   inappropriate content on YouTube but [TS]

01:01:01   great anyone can flag videos a flag with [TS]

01:01:04   extra power presumably like their [TS]

01:01:06   flagging means it gets pulled down all [TS]

01:01:08   yes this is what I think caused a bunch [TS]

01:01:10   of the confusion because exactly this [TS]

01:01:12   will give you log onto YouTube right now [TS]

01:01:13   and and you go to any video there's a [TS]

01:01:15   little button to report it as [TS]

01:01:17   inappropriate content like this is [TS]

01:01:19   already a thing that you can just do [TS]

01:01:20   anybody can do this [TS]

01:01:22   yeah and that doesn't mean it's going to [TS]

01:01:23   get ripped down it just means if a [TS]

01:01:25   hundred people do it in 10 minutes I [TS]

01:01:26   shame someone that says hang on let's [TS]

01:01:28   have a look at this [TS]

01:01:29   right exactly like presumably that's [TS]

01:01:31   what's occurring if you press the report [TS]

01:01:33   button it doesn't immediately remove [TS]

01:01:34   someone's video [TS]

01:01:35   no but i think that this is in the long [TS]

01:01:38   line of like YouTube not being super [TS]

01:01:40   great communication I think this is [TS]

01:01:42   partly what caused the problem because [TS]

01:01:44   if they release a video saying youtube [TS]

01:01:47   heroes have the ability to flag [TS]

01:01:50   inappropriate content and showed someone [TS]

01:01:52   like Apple II clicking on a bunch of [TS]

01:01:54   videos are looking to get like little [TS]

01:01:55   red x's on them [TS]

01:01:56   yeah because people can already report [TS]

01:01:58   stuff people are naturally going to [TS]

01:02:00   assume that there must be more to this [TS]

01:02:03   like otherwise what are you talking [TS]

01:02:05   about you're talking about a feature [TS]

01:02:06   that already exists and so I think [TS]

01:02:08   people were very quick to jump to the [TS]

01:02:10   conclusion that [TS]

01:02:11   that YouTube heroes must be able to [TS]

01:02:13   remove content from YouTube because [TS]

01:02:17   otherwise what are you talking about [TS]

01:02:20   in the meantime what has occurred is [TS]

01:02:21   that YouTube has come out to try to [TS]

01:02:23   clarify the situation with YouTube [TS]

01:02:25   heroes and as far as i can tell YouTube [TS]

01:02:29   heroes just seems to be a way that [TS]

01:02:32   youtube is trying to create a group of [TS]

01:02:37   people whose flagging of videos they can [TS]

01:02:42   weigh more heavily okay 1,000 civilians [TS]

01:02:47   flag video lets off a warning bell at [TS]

01:02:50   YouTube but if 20 heroes flag video that [TS]

01:02:53   sets off the same warning bell that's [TS]

01:02:55   the impression that i'm getting that's [TS]

01:02:57   the way it seems to be I hope that's the [TS]

01:03:00   case and I hope we're not just like [TS]

01:03:01   digging you too bad about how they [TS]

01:03:03   should be in because they're doing [TS]

01:03:04   something stupid [TS]

01:03:06   well there was a reddit AMA which was an [TS]

01:03:08   interview with a bunch of people who [TS]

01:03:10   were you two heroes which is still a [TS]

01:03:12   hard time even just saying it up because [TS]

01:03:14   it's like you want to like this like the [TS]

01:03:16   most unheroic thing ever because it [TS]

01:03:18   feels kind of like tattling yeah I [TS]

01:03:20   should be code youtube snitches [TS]

01:03:23   I understand the problem that YouTube [TS]

01:03:26   has like I understand that there is a [TS]

01:03:29   really horrific stuff which is uploaded [TS]

01:03:32   to YouTube constantly like youtube I do [TS]

01:03:34   get it that there's a lot of horrors [TS]

01:03:35   that most normal people never seen on [TS]

01:03:37   youtube and you and you need ways to [TS]

01:03:38   figure out all this stuff but it's like [TS]

01:03:40   the hero named just feels so wrong for [TS]

01:03:44   like the thing that's happening because [TS]

01:03:46   most people's experience it's a bit [TS]

01:03:48   grandi ice isn't it yeah it's a bit [TS]

01:03:50   grandiose and you know even the videos [TS]

01:03:52   like every hero needs a bit of glory and [TS]

01:03:55   again from like reading about what it is [TS]

01:03:57   it feels a lot like janitorial work like [TS]

01:03:59   boy his place is a real mess like we [TS]

01:04:01   need a bunch of people to clean it up [TS]

01:04:03   how can we get them to clean it up will [TS]

01:04:05   call them heroes like will give them [TS]

01:04:08   points to do that its just oh so you [TS]

01:04:12   think they need someone to do poor and [TS]

01:04:13   grunt work and their incentivizing them [TS]

01:04:16   with mike glory [TS]

01:04:19   ok have you seen the actual video that [TS]

01:04:23   was the original announcement video [TS]

01:04:25   no well apparently that's impossible now [TS]

01:04:27   because i heard another controversy was [TS]

01:04:29   they changed the video like with the [TS]

01:04:31   same link they actually went in and [TS]

01:04:34   replaced the video with had to change a [TS]

01:04:36   few things that had caused the most [TS]

01:04:38   problems and it's only like it through [TS]

01:04:41   dodgy you know pirate versions you can [TS]

01:04:43   see what they originally said yeah this [TS]

01:04:45   also falls into the category of how do [TS]

01:04:48   you best extinguish controversy online [TS]

01:04:51   probably not by using powers that nobody [TS]

01:04:55   else has to change your video and to [TS]

01:04:58   make no reference about the changes that [TS]

01:05:00   have occurred and hope nobody notices [TS]

01:05:02   that's probably not the best way to calm [TS]

01:05:05   the situation down is to literally 1984 [TS]

01:05:10   style throw your original video down the [TS]

01:05:13   memory hole and replace it with a new [TS]

01:05:15   video that has changed the wording of [TS]

01:05:18   key points [TS]

01:05:20   it's like guys that this is not the way [TS]

01:05:23   to do this this is going to come nobody [TS]

01:05:25   down this is going to make everybody [TS]

01:05:28   angrier because now they can point to a [TS]

01:05:30   thing where you're trying to go back and [TS]

01:05:32   like retro actively change something [TS]

01:05:34   like it's fine to try to be clearer but [TS]

01:05:37   if you're trying to be clearer you have [TS]

01:05:39   to do that in a clear way not like over [TS]

01:05:42   going back and we're just changing the [TS]

01:05:43   thing and we're not going to make any [TS]

01:05:44   reference to it yeah it's the worst way [TS]

01:05:46   to do this the minor problem with that [TS]

01:05:48   is as well it's not just like being [TS]

01:05:49   caught in a cover-up which is the worst [TS]

01:05:51   possible thing to happen right let's [TS]

01:05:53   also dredged up this out [TS]

01:05:55   acorn of people wanting to be able to [TS]

01:05:57   replace and fix their videos what [TS]

01:05:59   exactly is the last debate they wanted [TS]

01:06:01   to get drawn into a whole other thing [TS]

01:06:03   now they've been pulled into that buddy [TS]

01:06:05   storm as well right [TS]

01:06:07   I think that's something we brought up [TS]

01:06:08   on the first episode of Hello internet [TS]

01:06:10   two years ago in fact that desire to [TS]

01:06:12   replace us as a thing that all creators [TS]

01:06:15   would love to have it as like obviously [TS]

01:06:17   youtube as the owner of the platform is [TS]

01:06:18   like of course they can go in and modify [TS]

01:06:21   their own database like surprise is none [TS]

01:06:23   is just dredging up another thing for [TS]

01:06:27   creators to get really angry about and i [TS]

01:06:30   do want to have just like [TS]

01:06:31   a little moment of sympathy for you too [TS]

01:06:33   because while youtube definitely I think [TS]

01:06:36   we as we have mentioned many times does [TS]

01:06:38   not handle these situations of [TS]

01:06:39   communicating with creators well because [TS]

01:06:41   ultimately like the heroes program i [TS]

01:06:43   think is relatively innocuous but came [TS]

01:06:46   across in just the wrong way and turned [TS]

01:06:48   into a gigantic storm it's like YouTube [TS]

01:06:50   you must know by now that there is a [TS]

01:06:53   growing industry of people who make a [TS]

01:06:56   living off of youtube outraged right [TS]

01:06:58   it's like people know now that there is [TS]

01:07:01   profit to be made by getting furious at [TS]

01:07:05   YouTube immediately about stuff and if I [TS]

01:07:09   if you're aware of that you need to be [TS]

01:07:11   careful i wonder why people think that's [TS]

01:07:13   us which I don't think we are but [TS]

01:07:15   whenever these scandals come up my [TS]

01:07:17   Twitter fills up with people going are [TS]

01:07:18   brady and great you got to go and kick [TS]

01:07:20   youtube about YouTube heroes now as well [TS]

01:07:22   like I feel like where they put in that [TS]

01:07:24   boat of it and I have sympathy for you [TS]

01:07:25   to I don't want to kick them i really [TS]

01:07:27   like them all the people there i have [TS]

01:07:30   met are like and like they've created [TS]

01:07:32   this thing that's given me like a career [TS]

01:07:34   so I don't like that business industry [TS]

01:07:36   of kicking them in the gas but there [TS]

01:07:38   sure as hell is crazy i think this is [TS]

01:07:41   the one especially because we just went [TS]

01:07:44   through the d monetization thing [TS]

01:07:45   whatever it was two or three weeks ago [TS]

01:07:47   and then this happens [TS]

01:07:48   yeah i think it's close enough that it [TS]

01:07:50   becomes obvious that in a way it's funny [TS]

01:07:55   but I see a similar pattern with [TS]

01:07:57   whenever a new iPhone comes out there is [TS]

01:07:59   obviously an industry of people who are [TS]

01:08:03   just desperate to find what is the thing [TS]

01:08:06   wrong with this phone to turn it into [TS]

01:08:08   the scandal about this phone [TS]

01:08:10   yeah because it means that there's a ton [TS]

01:08:12   of money to be made if you are the first [TS]

01:08:16   person who can find something wrong with [TS]

01:08:19   the phone like this is just a thing that [TS]

01:08:21   exists yet the antenna that doesn't work [TS]

01:08:23   or the battery that over hate so right [TS]

01:08:25   or like bending it on purpose right to [TS]

01:08:27   try to like it affects heard a lot of [TS]

01:08:28   foresight like that's been on Ben's how [TS]

01:08:31   outrageous like yeah of course it [TS]

01:08:32   doesn't [TS]

01:08:33   why wouldn't it but this is like a thing [TS]

01:08:35   and so I think yeah [TS]

01:08:37   youtube finds himself in the position of [TS]

01:08:39   there are people who [TS]

01:08:42   will want to get angry at everything [TS]

01:08:46   they do immediately because now this [TS]

01:08:49   itself has become like a metal genre [TS]

01:08:51   that exists on the platform in the same [TS]

01:08:54   way that like youtube drama exists that [TS]

01:08:56   people love to get angry at other [TS]

01:08:59   YouTube channels and that that YouTube [TS]

01:09:01   channels creators being angry at other [TS]

01:09:04   Creators is it like a total thing that I [TS]

01:09:07   think is sometimes done like quite [TS]

01:09:09   cynically right where I'm not sure how [TS]

01:09:10   much people really care but it's like [TS]

01:09:11   you get a lot of attention if you're [TS]

01:09:13   creating like a fight between two [TS]

01:09:15   youtube channels so yeah I definitely [TS]

01:09:18   have sympathy for you to be in this [TS]

01:09:20   situation and it's part of the reason [TS]

01:09:23   why I didn't want to go on Twitter and [TS]

01:09:24   complain about stuff right away because [TS]

01:09:27   I did feel like let me wait to see what [TS]

01:09:28   youtube says and then I only said [TS]

01:09:31   something on Twitter when they pulled [TS]

01:09:32   the memory hole trick like we're just [TS]

01:09:34   gonna retro actively wipe the video and [TS]

01:09:36   put something up the new and like now [TS]

01:09:38   you've just made a terrible mistake like [TS]

01:09:40   now I feel a little bit better coming [TS]

01:09:42   out and saying like this is awful like [TS]

01:09:44   this is not a good idea you don't do [TS]

01:09:45   this but i did kinda want to wait [TS]

01:09:47   because I didn't want to have just like [TS]

01:09:49   a knee-jerk reaction about it i think [TS]

01:09:51   people expect us to be super angry about [TS]

01:09:53   this but in many ways i think the [TS]

01:09:55   YouTube heroes is largely much ado about [TS]

01:10:01   nothing [TS]

01:10:03   I don't necessarily think it's a big [TS]

01:10:05   deal or as big of a deal as people / [TS]

01:10:07   traded initially rah [TS]

01:10:10   so the obvious concern would be imbuing [TS]

01:10:13   an authorized strangers with a great [TS]

01:10:17   power to have videos removal and [TS]

01:10:19   creators penalized if that's not the [TS]

01:10:22   case [TS]

01:10:22   do you have any thoughts about if [TS]

01:10:25   they're just like you know giving [TS]

01:10:26   frequent flyer points to people who [TS]

01:10:29   helped them by doing lots of their grunt [TS]

01:10:31   work then do you have any concerns about [TS]

01:10:33   that or do you just think it's like just [TS]

01:10:35   a bit of an a thing or do you have any [TS]

01:10:37   thoughts about them in listing all this [TS]

01:10:39   free labor rather than employing more [TS]

01:10:42   people themselves to fix these problems [TS]

01:10:44   they want out with because that was one [TS]

01:10:46   of the other criticisms i saw it was a [TS]

01:10:47   bit like they're in this thing [TS]

01:10:49   slave labor when they should employ more [TS]

01:10:51   people to be policing there [TS]

01:10:53   Wild West it will that I think is what [TS]

01:10:56   has ended up for me being the [TS]

01:10:58   interesting question about this whole [TS]

01:11:01   program thinking about you two euros as [TS]

01:11:03   one of the reasons why i asked you if [TS]

01:11:05   you've seen the video because the video [TS]

01:11:07   shows like sign up to be a youtube hero [TS]

01:11:10   and and what happens to you again [TS]

01:11:12   now as you act heroically online [TS]

01:11:14   flagging videos you know and tattling [TS]

01:11:17   and will give you points and like what [TS]

01:11:20   happens as you earn points and watching [TS]

01:11:23   this video the first thing that struck [TS]

01:11:25   me about it was it was so job like one [TS]

01:11:30   of the things they say that once you [TS]

01:11:31   sign up like you'll join a community and [TS]

01:11:33   then what can you do when you join the [TS]

01:11:34   community [TS]

01:11:35   you can learn more at exclusive [TS]

01:11:38   workshops that sounds like a business [TS]

01:11:42   meeting [TS]

01:11:42   that's what that sounds like you you're [TS]

01:11:44   part of the HR department and we're [TS]

01:11:46   going to have a workshop about what [TS]

01:11:48   counts as appropriate and inappropriate [TS]

01:11:50   content on YouTube like surely that's [TS]

01:11:53   what you mean by these workshops like [TS]

01:11:55   what else are the workshops going to be [TS]

01:11:57   about two enough free work for us and [TS]

01:11:59   we'll try to be more free work right and [TS]

01:12:02   will train you to make sure that you're [TS]

01:12:03   really on board with how we want things [TS]

01:12:05   to happen and then the next one is the [TS]

01:12:07   like it says take part in hero video [TS]

01:12:10   chats and i want to show someone who's [TS]

01:12:11   super happy to be talking to three [TS]

01:12:13   randos right on his computer in a video [TS]

01:12:15   chat like and again it's like okay so [TS]

01:12:18   this is a conference call the structure [TS]

01:12:20   of this whole thing is YouTube has a [TS]

01:12:24   problem where they want to make sure [TS]

01:12:26   that content that doesn't mean they're [TS]

01:12:28   appropriate guidelines like isn't on [TS]

01:12:29   their website and again like a case i [TS]

01:12:31   can sort of go along with that to a [TS]

01:12:33   certain extent but if the whole [TS]

01:12:34   structure of this program is to help [TS]

01:12:36   them solve this problem Nick what are [TS]

01:12:39   these video chats going to be of course [TS]

01:12:40   they're just going to be more meetings [TS]

01:12:42   like it's just it's a meeting with [TS]

01:12:44   someone who's higher up is going to be [TS]

01:12:45   telling you how they want you to do your [TS]

01:12:48   hero job [TS]

01:12:50   it essentially says if you follow it [TS]

01:12:51   through like here's what happens you [TS]

01:12:53   join up to be a hero [TS]

01:12:55   you will be trained at workshops and [TS]

01:12:58   through video chats on how to be a hero [TS]

01:13:01   if you are good enough will unlock tools [TS]

01:13:05   so that you can [TS]

01:13:07   deal with videos on a much wider faster [TS]

01:13:10   scale so you can do more stuff for us [TS]

01:13:12   that's worrying [TS]

01:13:14   yeah if you do a good job of this you [TS]

01:13:17   will eventually be able to go to a [TS]

01:13:22   conference with other YouTube heroes and [TS]

01:13:26   so it's like all of it just sounds like [TS]

01:13:27   its work it just sounds like this is [TS]

01:13:30   essentially a free job that we want [TS]

01:13:35   people to do for youtube I don't know [TS]

01:13:38   how to feel about that [TS]

01:13:40   it's partly why i keep thinking of it as [TS]

01:13:42   like YouTube Hall monitors like you have [TS]

01:13:45   these hall monitors in school and every [TS]

01:13:49   school does this and as a teacher when [TS]

01:13:52   you see the kids who sign up to be the [TS]

01:13:54   Hall monitors they can have some [TS]

01:13:56   thoughts about those kids [TS]

01:13:58   what kind of kids sign up to be home [TS]

01:14:00   monitors the other thing that's a bit [TS]

01:14:02   concerning the great to do you have any [TS]

01:14:05   I know you're not an expert on the [TS]

01:14:07   YouTube Heroes program but you know a [TS]

01:14:08   bit more than a is there any indication [TS]

01:14:09   that these rewards you earn come from [TS]

01:14:13   the number of times you snitch because [TS]

01:14:16   that also sounds like a problem to me [TS]

01:14:18   because it's a bit like you know [TS]

01:14:19   rewarding parking inspectors for how [TS]

01:14:21   many tickets they give suddenly they [TS]

01:14:23   become more and more draconian and less [TS]

01:14:25   lenient or they won't start you know [TS]

01:14:27   pushing the Rose a little bit themselves [TS]

01:14:29   because they're being rewarded for [TS]

01:14:31   punishing others so i hope the heroes [TS]

01:14:33   are being rewarded for the number of [TS]

01:14:34   videos they watch and not the number of [TS]

01:14:37   videos they flag because i don't want [TS]

01:14:39   them to stop flagging things to try and [TS]

01:14:40   get their reward points up right so [TS]

01:14:42   reading through the interviews another [TS]

01:14:44   and the clarification that YouTube has [TS]

01:14:45   put out here is my best understanding of [TS]

01:14:48   how the system works so videos that are [TS]

01:14:50   flagged on youtube now whether it be by [TS]

01:14:53   heroes or just as regular civilians in [TS]

01:14:56   the trenches who are not heroes [TS]

01:14:58   ultimately all that happens is that [TS]

01:15:00   those videos then go to some mysterious [TS]

01:15:03   actual group of paid employees within [TS]

01:15:05   YouTube who determine whether or not [TS]

01:15:07   like the content is or is not [TS]

01:15:09   appropriate right and so this group of [TS]

01:15:12   actual youtube employees makes a call [TS]

01:15:14   about yes this is a video that should [TS]

01:15:16   have been reported and we're going to [TS]

01:15:17   remove it or not [TS]

01:15:18   yeah and YouTube gave a number which [TS]

01:15:21   says that if you look at just randos [TS]

01:15:24   flagging videos their accuracy as [TS]

01:15:27   measured by how often does YouTube agree [TS]

01:15:29   it's like thirty percent accurate so [TS]

01:15:32   randos flag videos way more than YouTube [TS]

01:15:34   thinks the content is actually [TS]

01:15:37   inappropriate which is not surprising [TS]

01:15:38   it's interesting to have a number [TS]

01:15:40   attached to that what do you think you [TS]

01:15:41   think the numbers too big you think the [TS]

01:15:42   numbers too small [TS]

01:15:43   I've never thought about it before so [TS]

01:15:45   now that i think about a yeah I guess [TS]

01:15:48   anyone can flag video just because they [TS]

01:15:49   didn't like or someone's hair looked [TS]

01:15:51   like or they could let you know [TS]

01:15:53   press the wrong button so i guess if [TS]

01:15:54   just one flag counts in that number then [TS]

01:15:57   I'm not surprised thirty percent [TS]

01:15:58   effective could have easily been lower [TS]

01:16:00   debt to me at that number seems almost [TS]

01:16:02   crazily high when you think if I like [TS]

01:16:04   how much people disagree about what is [TS]

01:16:07   or is not appropriate content like the [TS]

01:16:09   fundamental part of this whole [TS]

01:16:10   conversation is like what is the notion [TS]

01:16:11   of appropriate content will put that [TS]

01:16:13   aside for the moment [TS]

01:16:14   yeah so regular people have a terribly [TS]

01:16:17   low hit rate what I think is happening [TS]

01:16:19   and what seems to be the case is that [TS]

01:16:21   the YouTube heroes is a way to isolate [TS]

01:16:25   the people whose flagging agrees much [TS]

01:16:29   more with YouTube's actual paid [TS]

01:16:33   employees who determine what is it is [TS]

01:16:34   not appropriate [TS]

01:16:35   yeah and so I saw on the red discussion [TS]

01:16:39   with people who are the beta program for [TS]

01:16:42   the heroes that their numbers were in [TS]

01:16:45   like the 90 95 plus percent agreements [TS]

01:16:48   with the YouTube paid employees and so [TS]

01:16:52   my speculation here is that they're not [TS]

01:16:54   getting points for simply flagging [TS]

01:16:57   videos that there's some kind of [TS]

01:16:59   algorithm about how much do you agree [TS]

01:17:03   okay with what our actual employees are [TS]

01:17:06   doing [TS]

01:17:07   that's good that's kind there were some [TS]

01:17:08   comments along those lines of people who [TS]

01:17:10   are flagging videos that don't really [TS]

01:17:12   ever get a agreement or have very low [TS]

01:17:14   agreement rates that they're essentially [TS]

01:17:17   pushed out of the program or the system [TS]

01:17:18   doesn't really recommend them [TS]

01:17:19   ok so that's why i say like the heroes [TS]

01:17:22   thing it seems to me to just be [TS]

01:17:24   YouTube's attempt to create a more [TS]

01:17:27   reliable group of people who are [TS]

01:17:30   flagging videos [TS]

01:17:31   yeah that's what this purpose is that [TS]

01:17:33   they say look if we just look at all of [TS]

01:17:35   the flags is is very noisy data it's [TS]

01:17:38   only thirty percent right which means [TS]

01:17:40   we're wasting seventy percent of our [TS]

01:17:41   time [TS]

01:17:42   let's get a bunch of Ernest busybody [TS]

01:17:44   hall monitor types to flag videos and [TS]

01:17:50   essentially cut down on the workload for [TS]

01:17:52   our actual pain employees that's kind of [TS]

01:17:54   the way this program strikes me that's [TS]

01:17:57   what's occurring here we will reward you [TS]

01:17:59   with something that's very much like a [TS]

01:18:03   job but it's not a job and might involve [TS]

01:18:04   conferences we will reward you with this [TS]

01:18:07   for acting as a pre-filter for the work [TS]

01:18:12   that our actual paid employees have to [TS]

01:18:13   do and that's what the heroes program is [TS]

01:18:17   that's what i mean by like it's sort of [TS]

01:18:19   a whole lot of nothing [TS]

01:18:21   I almost wonder why YouTube is even [TS]

01:18:24   bothering publishing this they could [TS]

01:18:28   have done a secretly couldn't night we [TS]

01:18:29   could have all had a secret number [TS]

01:18:31   attached to us on a sort of flag [TS]

01:18:33   accuracy [TS]

01:18:34   yeah and they could have just known [TS]

01:18:35   Brady's a hero he's flags are always [TS]

01:18:37   good [TS]

01:18:38   ignore raise flags because he's like you [TS]

01:18:40   know he's a bit of a hothead all these [TS]

01:18:42   trigger-happy oh they could have had all [TS]

01:18:44   the data and done this program that was [TS]

01:18:46   knowing i guess that what they want to [TS]

01:18:47   do the reason that made a public is to [TS]

01:18:49   incentivize people to flag because if I [TS]

01:18:51   see something inappropriate i'm going to [TS]

01:18:53   be honest with you I don't forget I just [TS]

01:18:55   think well that's inappropriate and [TS]

01:18:56   probably stop watching [TS]

01:18:58   look I'm not a flag that because I'm not [TS]

01:19:00   stitch that Brady's no rat [TS]

01:19:05   exactly so I guess that's why they've [TS]

01:19:09   made a public because they want people [TS]

01:19:10   to you know take pride in being a snitch [TS]

01:19:13   well I don't know it's the cut and that [TS]

01:19:15   thing that you expect from a super [TS]

01:19:17   thanks for asking company like that you [TS]

01:19:19   choose [TS]

01:19:20   they're all you know they're reaching [TS]

01:19:21   out and building communities and making [TS]

01:19:25   heroes and that's RI I appreciate that [TS]

01:19:27   i'm just a cynical person here in [TS]

01:19:29   England getting rained on and thinking [TS]

01:19:31   everything's terrible and they're over [TS]

01:19:33   there in the sunshine thinking [TS]

01:19:34   everything's lovely and we all can be [TS]

01:19:36   heroes [TS]

01:19:37   yeah I don't know it's just I have these [TS]

01:19:41   conflicted feelings about this in some [TS]

01:19:43   ways I think it's much ado about nothing [TS]

01:19:45   and if people want to participate in [TS]

01:19:48   this program I mean fine i guess i don't [TS]

01:19:52   really have an issue with it to me it's [TS]

01:19:55   also tied up with so much of the [TS]

01:19:58   internet is related to the fact that [TS]

01:20:00   it's a tool that allows a kind of [TS]

01:20:01   distributed coordination among lots of [TS]

01:20:05   people like the very fact that I feel [TS]

01:20:08   like I really need to draw the sharp [TS]

01:20:10   line between there's some group of [TS]

01:20:11   people who are getting paid at YouTube [TS]

01:20:13   to take down videos and there are [TS]

01:20:16   there's this other group of people who [TS]

01:20:17   are doing very very similar work but are [TS]

01:20:19   not getting paid and this is like heroes [TS]

01:20:21   vs. employees but this dynamic exists [TS]

01:20:25   all over the web in lots of different [TS]

01:20:27   forms that i feel like i can't really [TS]

01:20:29   complain about United's like Wikipedia [TS]

01:20:33   is the easiest example ever [TS]

01:20:34   are there people who work at Wikipedia [TS]

01:20:36   who get paid by the funds that wikipedia [TS]

01:20:38   raises but wikipedia is built on top of [TS]

01:20:42   an enormous army of people who have [TS]

01:20:44   created an entire bureaucracy within [TS]

01:20:48   wikipedia about who are more or less [TS]

01:20:50   trusted editors this actually affects us [TS]

01:20:53   personally with our hello internet page [TS]

01:20:54   which got vandalized so many times that [TS]

01:20:57   well now you have to be some certain [TS]

01:20:59   level of wikipedia editor before you're [TS]

01:21:02   allowed to make change [TS]

01:21:03   I don't know why our page would have [TS]

01:21:04   been vandalized so frequently I can't [TS]

01:21:06   believe that now I have no idea that it [TS]

01:21:08   was probably the loose affection but [TS]

01:21:10   that's an example of like do I have a [TS]

01:21:12   real problem with that no is it because [TS]

01:21:16   wikipedia is a not-for-profit company i [TS]

01:21:19   guess but then in the exact same way [TS]

01:21:22   it's like reddit is the same thing all [TS]

01:21:24   over again like reddit is a for-profit [TS]

01:21:25   company but every time people [TS]

01:21:27   upvote or downvote links like in a sense [TS]

01:21:30   you doing work for reddit they're doing [TS]

01:21:32   like a distributed let the crowd find [TS]

01:21:35   the interesting things that people want [TS]

01:21:36   to talk about stuff so it's like I'm [TS]

01:21:39   doing work for read it when I up-or-down [TS]

01:21:41   vote links and do I really care about [TS]

01:21:44   that not really i also reward people [TS]

01:21:46   don't live with [TS]

01:21:47   fake glory that night rather let you the [TS]

01:21:49   same thing as heroes you know your [TS]

01:21:51   camera and your points and your [TS]

01:21:53   pointless glory if you get karma for [TS]

01:21:55   submitting links that people like me and [TS]

01:21:57   you lose karma when you say on popular [TS]

01:21:59   things I don't know I just feel like so [TS]

01:22:00   much of the internet is different [TS]

01:22:03   versions of this and it's hard to have a [TS]

01:22:06   consistent feeling about it even again [TS]

01:22:11   like my framing of YouTube heroes is [TS]

01:22:12   like YouTube tools like you are being [TS]

01:22:14   used as a literal tool by YouTube for [TS]

01:22:17   free [TS]

01:22:18   participating in this program i can say [TS]

01:22:22   that but then at the same time like do I [TS]

01:22:23   feel like a tool uploading or [TS]

01:22:25   downloading links on reddit [TS]

01:22:27   no do I feel like a tool if I correct a [TS]

01:22:29   typo on wikipedia know [TS]

01:22:33   so is this that different and I just [TS]

01:22:37   don't know I don't know I as long as [TS]

01:22:38   these people don't have the final say in [TS]

01:22:42   things then it's pretty hard to complain [TS]

01:22:44   about it if these people don't have the [TS]

01:22:47   sole power to remove a video from [TS]

01:22:50   youtube or you know effect creators fair [TS]

01:22:55   opportunity on the platform then it's [TS]

01:22:57   pretty hard to complain about it and I [TS]

01:23:00   guess they have the power to send more [TS]

01:23:01   of us to court and previously before [TS]

01:23:03   they're almost like slightly more [TS]

01:23:05   powerful police men at play and they can [TS]

01:23:08   let you know if their referrals carry [TS]

01:23:10   greater weight they're gonna start [TS]

01:23:11   sending more people to the court of [TS]

01:23:13   YouTube to be ruled around there like a [TS]

01:23:15   secret police [TS]

01:23:16   yeah yeah so that's really what it is [TS]

01:23:18   what it feel like and I agree with you [TS]

01:23:20   like more people will be before the the [TS]

01:23:22   court of YouTube yeah but then again if [TS]

01:23:24   you two have got their act together luck [TS]

01:23:26   Yusei maybe they do and the police are [TS]

01:23:29   being monitored and you know if you're a [TS]

01:23:31   policeman who's reporting lots of people [TS]

01:23:33   wrongly you lose your badge then alright [TS]

01:23:36   then sounds like they've kind of got a [TS]

01:23:37   system in place that's kinda going to [TS]

01:23:39   work [TS]

01:23:39   I think they're trying to defuse a lot [TS]

01:23:41   of the anger and confusion over this by [TS]

01:23:44   saying that like we're just referring [TS]

01:23:45   stuff up to the the actual court we [TS]

01:23:47   don't have the power to remove videos [TS]

01:23:49   like let's make it clear that's not the [TS]

01:23:50   case and so to me it feels like they're [TS]

01:23:53   diffusing anger around the YouTube [TS]

01:23:55   Heroes program [TS]

01:23:57   but still always comes back to like the [TS]

01:23:58   real argument takes place over what is [TS]

01:24:02   it that the YouTube court decides and [TS]

01:24:04   the heroes thing is just a total [TS]

01:24:06   distraction on the side like that's [TS]

01:24:08   actually what matters is what does [TS]

01:24:10   YouTube think is appropriate or [TS]

01:24:11   inappropriate for their platform that is [TS]

01:24:14   a complicated question their guidelines [TS]

01:24:16   are vague and I think intentionally [TS]

01:24:18   vague so that they can rule the way they [TS]

01:24:20   want a purely selfish perspective great [TS]

01:24:23   do you worry about that because I mean [TS]

01:24:25   you seem to be so far from that line in [TS]

01:24:27   the sand of what is acceptable and not [TS]

01:24:30   acceptable content that this must not [TS]

01:24:32   even come into your mind like it's not [TS]

01:24:33   like anything you've ever made is gonna [TS]

01:24:36   get ripped down for that reason so are [TS]

01:24:38   you worrying just because of a general [TS]

01:24:40   worry about the platform or free speech [TS]

01:24:43   I mean you're not wired from it so fresh [TS]

01:24:45   perspective I i have no personal [TS]

01:24:48   connection to this fight in the sense [TS]

01:24:51   that I I think it's pretty unlikely that [TS]

01:24:54   any video that i would upload would [TS]

01:24:56   probably be deemed by YouTube is [TS]

01:24:58   inappropriate content but just because [TS]

01:25:02   it doesn't affect me is not a question [TS]

01:25:04   of if i find it concerning or not [TS]

01:25:07   again I always want to sympathize with [TS]

01:25:08   you like I understand that they're in a [TS]

01:25:10   difficult position but i always start [TS]

01:25:13   getting really uncomfortable when people [TS]

01:25:15   are outlining guidelines of what is and [TS]

01:25:20   is not appropriate because ultimately [TS]

01:25:23   this comes down to some kind of like [TS]

01:25:25   human consensus decision even whenever [TS]

01:25:29   you try to like write out the guidelines [TS]

01:25:31   really what it boils down to is like [TS]

01:25:34   we're going to have some group of people [TS]

01:25:36   and they are going to decide what's cool [TS]

01:25:40   and what's not cool it's like it's [TS]

01:25:43   really interesting whenever you talk to [TS]

01:25:45   people about how it's it's so hard to [TS]

01:25:47   get people to agree on what they think [TS]

01:25:50   is appropriate or inappropriate so I I [TS]

01:25:53   just start getting a little bit [TS]

01:25:54   uncomfortable and a little bit nervous [TS]

01:25:56   when this gets set up like there is a [TS]

01:25:59   court somewhere that makes decisions I I [TS]

01:26:03   like a more free-for-all approach to [TS]

01:26:06   this stuff all that great for as long as [TS]

01:26:08   we've been talking about this you know [TS]

01:26:10   we've been talking [TS]

01:26:10   this since before we even started making [TS]

01:26:13   hello internet and you've always very [TS]

01:26:15   much had this attitude that [TS]

01:26:16   hey YouTube the company they own it they [TS]

01:26:19   can't decide what to do with it we all [TS]

01:26:20   have to live with that [TS]

01:26:21   you know it's not like it's a [TS]

01:26:23   democratically elected government is not [TS]

01:26:25   like a free open-source thing we're in [TS]

01:26:27   their hands we have to accept it and [TS]

01:26:29   that's the price we pay for being on a [TS]

01:26:31   blue and then over time you seem to be [TS]

01:26:33   drifting more and more towards this [TS]

01:26:34   thing where you believe it is like this [TS]

01:26:36   Democratic place where people should be [TS]

01:26:38   allowed to do what they want and people [TS]

01:26:40   shouldn't be in charge and look a [TS]

01:26:42   hundred percent sure where you sort of [TS]

01:26:43   stand on that now [TS]

01:26:44   well no there's a distinction here which [TS]

01:26:46   is the YouTube is a company and they can [TS]

01:26:49   do what they want and I think the heroes [TS]

01:26:51   program along with the d monetization [TS]

01:26:53   strategy that happened a couple weeks [TS]

01:26:55   ago I think this is all combined with [TS]

01:26:57   the knowledge that youtube is still not [TS]

01:26:59   profitable as far as I'm aware of this [TS]

01:27:01   last time we checked up on that I think [TS]

01:27:03   that this is all generally a movement [TS]

01:27:06   toward make youtube more advertising [TS]

01:27:10   friendly and more profitable like that [TS]

01:27:12   that's what they want to do and like can [TS]

01:27:14   I argue against that as the goal of [TS]

01:27:16   YouTube as a company now it's entirely [TS]

01:27:19   within their rights and partly their [TS]

01:27:22   obligation to do just that [TS]

01:27:24   like I'm not necessarily even saying [TS]

01:27:27   like if I was the CEO of YouTube would I [TS]

01:27:29   act differently like well the CEO of [TS]

01:27:32   YouTube is under a bunch of constraints [TS]

01:27:34   she's not just a person who can just do [TS]

01:27:37   whatever she wants like she has [TS]

01:27:39   obligations to shareholders she has [TS]

01:27:41   obligations to the parent company like [TS]

01:27:43   there are goals that are set like she [TS]

01:27:45   can't just do with thing and so I [TS]

01:27:48   understand why this happens but that's a [TS]

01:27:50   different question from like how do i [TS]

01:27:52   personally feel knowing that there is a [TS]

01:27:57   YouTube court who ultimately their goal [TS]

01:28:02   is to keep the platform advertiser [TS]

01:28:06   friendly i'm not a super fan of that [TS]

01:28:08   feeling i don't really like that but I [TS]

01:28:12   can understand why it occurs it's also a [TS]

01:28:14   very different question of like we've [TS]

01:28:17   had this essentially this same [TS]

01:28:19   discussion when you talk about like [TS]

01:28:20   Reddit like and what kind of content can [TS]

01:28:22   be on reddit and read it has gone [TS]

01:28:23   through this stuff like ever [TS]

01:28:24   three social media platform goes through [TS]

01:28:26   this exact same thing of it becomes this [TS]

01:28:30   enormous thing its CEOs its board of [TS]

01:28:33   directors have structural obligations [TS]

01:28:36   that they're trying to meet there trying [TS]

01:28:37   to make it profitable how do you do it [TS]

01:28:38   part of the way is to remove content [TS]

01:28:41   that advertisers don't like this happens [TS]

01:28:43   all the time but it's a different [TS]

01:28:45   question of like let's say somehow i was [TS]

01:28:49   running a video sharing company and it [TS]

01:28:52   was also with thing that I had never had [TS]

01:28:55   to do venture capital funding for that I [TS]

01:28:57   had no investors in like it was just a [TS]

01:28:59   100-percent privately held company you [TS]

01:29:03   know what would I do with that service i [TS]

01:29:07   feel like i would try to lean as far as [TS]

01:29:10   possible along the like easy to legal in [TS]

01:29:13   the country that it's being published in [TS]

01:29:16   if that's the case then obviously it has [TS]

01:29:18   to come down because I would have to [TS]

01:29:20   work within the constraints of the law [TS]

01:29:21   like you can't go against that but i [TS]

01:29:24   feel like i would try to lean personally [TS]

01:29:26   much further on the like do you say [TS]

01:29:30   things that people really don't want you [TS]

01:29:31   to say it's like well their words and [TS]

01:29:35   people might not like them but I'm a [TS]

01:29:38   more ok with like leaving up stuff that [TS]

01:29:40   i don't personally agree with but that's [TS]

01:29:42   a totally different situation where you [TS]

01:29:44   are imagining that I have way more [TS]

01:29:46   leeway and running a thing it's like [TS]

01:29:48   it's my private company i have no one to [TS]

01:29:50   answer to how would I do it you know but [TS]

01:29:52   then like with all this stuff there's [TS]

01:29:54   always going to be edge cases and edge [TS]

01:29:55   cases are where stuff starts to Road and [TS]

01:29:58   so like I have a lot of sympathy for the [TS]

01:30:02   people who do end up in charge of these [TS]

01:30:04   big systems [TS]

01:30:06   yeah and of course it also gets [TS]

01:30:08   complicated when children get involved [TS]

01:30:10   as well yeah I mean well that's why all [TS]

01:30:13   of these services have at least the [TS]

01:30:15   extensible rule that no children should [TS]

01:30:16   be using them in the first place which [TS]

01:30:17   we all know is a lie but as the like [TS]

01:30:19   yeah there's nobody under 13 on facebook [TS]

01:30:21   i'm sure there aren't but so that's why [TS]

01:30:23   it's it's complicated [TS]

01:30:25   I have sympathy for the people who are [TS]

01:30:26   in charge of this but that is very [TS]

01:30:29   different from like my personal feelings [TS]

01:30:33   about how it goes but i understand i do [TS]

01:30:37   think there's [TS]

01:30:37   one complicating factor though which is [TS]

01:30:40   I think we're now in a world where [TS]

01:30:44   social media services [TS]

01:30:48   I don't know this is what matters is [TS]

01:30:50   probably going a little bit too far but [TS]

01:30:52   they're almost like public forums other [TS]

01:30:56   almost like a kind of public property [TS]

01:30:58   where it's it's very easy to say like Oh [TS]

01:31:02   youtube as an individual entity is [TS]

01:31:05   allowed to do whatever it wants and [TS]

01:31:06   shutdown people that it doesn't like and [TS]

01:31:10   twitter is also able to do that and [TS]

01:31:12   facebook is also able to do that and [TS]

01:31:14   like on an individual case it's always [TS]

01:31:17   easy to point to one of them and to say [TS]

01:31:19   like oh yes of course they should be [TS]

01:31:20   able to do it but in the aggregate I [TS]

01:31:24   don't know I feel like they are very [TS]

01:31:25   rapidly becoming absolutely vital tools [TS]

01:31:28   of human communication and to restrict [TS]

01:31:33   those in ways makes me a little bit [TS]

01:31:36   uncomfortable but yeah I think it might [TS]

01:31:38   be a little bit too far to say like oh [TS]

01:31:39   it's almost like they're public squares [TS]

01:31:41   where people should be able to talk [TS]

01:31:42   about whatever they want i don't really [TS]

01:31:43   think that's the case but I think as [TS]

01:31:46   they become more powerful and more [TS]

01:31:47   central in our lives they up approach [TS]

01:31:49   that they they really do we're like [TS]

01:31:53   removing someone from twitter is is [TS]

01:31:55   damaging I think they do agree with you [TS]

01:31:58   yeah I see what you're reluctant to go [TS]

01:32:00   there and where there are a few little [TS]

01:32:02   pitfalls but i think they have getting [TS]

01:32:04   very close to that I know why you're [TS]

01:32:06   scared to talk about talking about it [TS]

01:32:08   because it's very complicated [TS]

01:32:11   I'm not scared are talking about it i [TS]

01:32:12   just think it's like to actually declare [TS]

01:32:15   that there's something like a public [TS]

01:32:17   forum is a very different thing you know [TS]

01:32:20   just like everybody should have the [TS]

01:32:21   right to say what they want on and [TS]

01:32:23   actually private companies property i [TS]

01:32:26   can't really cross that line is it's [TS]

01:32:28   like there's conflicting values here of [TS]

01:32:31   should companies be able to do what they [TS]

01:32:33   want with their property yes it should [TS]

01:32:35   people be able to express themselves [TS]

01:32:36   even if they express ideas that not [TS]

01:32:38   everybody likes yes that you run into [TS]

01:32:41   conflicts of these two things I maybe [TS]

01:32:43   I'm just thinking of this it as I go [TS]

01:32:44   along so maybe this is a stupid thing [TS]

01:32:45   but I think to use a UK example I think [TS]

01:32:49   maybe some of these platforms like [TS]

01:32:51   facebook and twitter we're almost get [TS]

01:32:53   into a situation where you need to treat [TS]

01:32:55   them almost like the UK has public [TS]

01:32:57   rights-of-way what do you mean well that [TS]

01:32:58   in the UK you can own a piece of land [TS]

01:33:00   like you can own a farm or something [TS]

01:33:02   blue [TS]

01:33:03   but if there's a public right-of-way if [TS]

01:33:04   it's a path going through it [TS]

01:33:06   the public has a fundamental right to [TS]

01:33:08   walk across and you can't say get off my [TS]

01:33:09   land I own the land although it is your [TS]

01:33:11   land em the public has a right to walk [TS]

01:33:15   across it to get from A to B into do [TS]

01:33:16   certain things there's a whole bunch of [TS]

01:33:18   famous protests things in sort of UK [TS]

01:33:20   history that got a lot of landmarks [TS]

01:33:22   stuff happened I appreciate where there [TS]

01:33:23   was a big protests about this because [TS]

01:33:25   for ethical farmer was like shutting his [TS]

01:33:27   land and not letting the hikers and the [TS]

01:33:29   walkers go across this land and all [TS]

01:33:31   kicked off and in the end it was a great [TS]

01:33:33   victory for walkers around the UK and [TS]

01:33:35   that's why the UK such a great place to [TS]

01:33:37   walk to this day because we have these [TS]

01:33:39   public rights-of-way where you can walk [TS]

01:33:41   across other people's land in certain [TS]

01:33:43   cases Lou at but that doesn't mean the [TS]

01:33:45   person doesn't either land and I think [TS]

01:33:47   like Facebook and Twitter maybe a [TS]

01:33:48   getting into that sort of territory [TS]

01:33:50   where yes Facebook owner and they can [TS]

01:33:53   find sheep on if they want and they can [TS]

01:33:55   plant a tree and they can make money [TS]

01:33:57   that's all they're right but there still [TS]

01:33:58   is a public right-of-way component to it [TS]

01:34:00   where they have to acknowledge that if [TS]

01:34:03   they're going to own this mega farm in a [TS]

01:34:05   popular place the public have to be able [TS]

01:34:07   to use it to in certain ways that they [TS]

01:34:09   can't just put a padlock on the gate the [TS]

01:34:12   public do have certain rights [TS]

01:34:13   hmm that's an interesting metaphor [TS]

01:34:16   that's an interesting way to think about [TS]

01:34:17   it if it turns out being a good one [TS]

01:34:20   just remember i said at first is a lot [TS]

01:34:23   if it's a lousy one let's just pretend [TS]

01:34:25   that never happened [TS]