H.I. #69: Ex_Machina

0:00:00I hear you have a listener photo that

0:00:01you want to start with Brady just when

0:00:05you think the listener photos cannot

0:00:08possibly get any better

0:00:10the ante has been up once again you

0:00:13remember last episode I'm sure who are

0:00:16listening and listening photo was dingy

0:00:18yes of course remind us what was it was

0:00:22an actor on air crash investigators way

0:00:27but I know that somewhere in the world

0:00:29is called Mayday that's right it's

0:00:30called Mayday somewhere i know that it's

0:00:32code made in America now this was an

0:00:35actor who's playing an air traffic

0:00:36controller in an episode of air crash

0:00:38investigation and the episode was the

0:00:40crash in which the Gulf a pain Stewart

0:00:43and a number of other people very

0:00:44unfortunately died when their lead yet

0:00:47decompressed they got hypoxia and

0:00:50presumably died and the plane sort of

0:00:53flew like a ghost plane over a large

0:00:55tract of the u.s. until it ran out of

0:00:57fuel and during that time a number of

0:01:01fighter jets were sort of sent up to try

0:01:04and see what was going on with this

0:01:05ghost plane that was just flying north

0:01:07america and they sort of pulled up next

0:01:08to it and try to look through the

0:01:10windows and see what was going on they

0:01:12thought it probably had a compressed and

0:01:13we all know the rest

0:01:15Randolph you'll crash into the ground so

0:01:18I had another email from a listener to

0:01:22hello Internet

0:01:24this was wine wine says dear dr. heron

0:01:28so I like him already Brady does like

0:01:31that he doesn't like it when you show

0:01:32deference well it shows he's a temp food

0:01:36though he says dear dr. hair i am an air

0:01:39traffic controller who was directly

0:01:42involved with the events depicted in

0:01:44season 1 episode 16 of plane crash

0:01:47investigator only silence I was of the

0:01:51controller who sent the f-15 fighter

0:01:54jets to run the initial intercept on

0:01:57pains to its chatter now

0:02:00really it's very exciting but I'm

0:02:04beginning to wonder that you're being

0:02:05taken in because this is now going very

0:02:08far down there

0:02:09rabbit hole listeners to the show we are

0:02:12going deep

0:02:13anyway I've read on he says I was in the

0:02:16process of listening to HR number 68 and

0:02:19checking the show notes when I reviewed

0:02:21the listener photo i laughed out loud

0:02:24there are many many things wrong with

0:02:26the set of air traffic control

0:02:28workstation a few ones are you like this

0:02:31if you have the choice ones are the red

0:02:33phone apparently there's no red phone

0:02:36you know the radar scope itself and what

0:02:39is shown on the scope so he decided to

0:02:42go and watch the whole episode he

0:02:44tracked down on youtube and he says from

0:02:46the air traffic control side of the

0:02:47equation the amount of inaccuracies was

0:02:50staggering i would love to explain to

0:02:53you a love of aviation how the intercept

0:02:56went down and where the show go over

0:02:57things wrong

0:02:58we have not yet had that discussion but

0:02:59if it but it seems inevitable

0:03:02ok yes yes now as you can imagine i was

0:03:06a bit suspicious gray you know this

0:03:08seems almost too good to be true

0:03:10yeah but i'm not sure how this business

0:03:11you'd actually be actually like even if

0:03:13you think you're being suspicious that

0:03:15you still really wanted to be true

0:03:17I didn't want it to be true that so I

0:03:20did ask for photos another email follows

0:03:24he calls me Brady now I'm not dr. hair

0:03:27anymore so we've obviously we've moved

0:03:28beyond up there and hang on a first-name

0:03:30basis now ok we are

0:03:32Brady after securing permission from the

0:03:35Chief of Air Facility jacksonville air

0:03:37route traffic control center i was able

0:03:39to take some photos as requested

0:03:42he points out he's an email in his break

0:03:44they will not allow photography in the

0:03:46actual control room because of national

0:03:48security but i was able to get a photo

0:03:50in the refresher training dynamic

0:03:51simulation lab which is mocked up to

0:03:53resemble the control room as much as

0:03:55possible although not perfectly without

0:03:58displaying live traffic only can

0:04:00scenarios for training purposes the

0:04:02scope is set to the sector that took the

0:04:04handoff from mci orlando approach and

0:04:07issued to climb to FL 264 lat level 260

0:04:1026,000 feet so he's got the training

0:04:13station and he's mocked it up with the

0:04:15actual sector that was involved in this

0:04:17incident and he's sitting in front of it

0:04:19holding of course iphone displaying

0:04:22hello Internet send it to an hour gray

0:04:25this is wayne not the pretend air

0:04:29traffic controller we had last week but

0:04:30the actual air traffic controller i have

0:04:33to say this looks way more like what a

0:04:36real air traffic control center would

0:04:38look like in no small part because like

0:04:41that keyboard looks really clunky and

0:04:43old and I feel like that's what I would

0:04:44expect an air traffic controller to

0:04:46actually be using is like all but

0:04:48reliable equipment very very reliable if

0:04:53you think that's good you should see the

0:04:54other picture he sent us the second

0:04:56photo is of me in the lobby with my

0:04:58facility while on break in front of the

0:05:00sole remaining RadarScope from the old

0:05:02system that was in use when I controlled

0:05:05the fighters to intercept pains to its

0:05:06jet so this second picture is the actual

0:05:09type of scope that he was using at the

0:05:11time so you put some ways this is even

0:05:12more legit now that looks so old it's

0:05:16crossed over in my brain that it looks

0:05:18like something out of a 1950s sci-fi

0:05:20movie that doesn't even look real

0:05:22anymore

0:05:23it looks like it's a prop on a very very

0:05:25old film that's absolutely fantastic it

0:05:27looks like that track ball in the center

0:05:28is enormously well-used based on the

0:05:32wearing pattern of the metal in front of

0:05:35it

0:05:36I don't know where this is going to end

0:05:38gray we started with the actor now we've

0:05:41got the person the actor was portraying

0:05:43who what are we going to have next the

0:05:45pilots of the fighter jets if you're

0:05:47listening app pilots of the fighter jets

0:05:50I feel like certainly this rabbit hole

0:05:53has to end somewhere but I also feel

0:05:57like there's definitely a lesson here

0:05:59for people sending you to listen to her

0:06:01photos like they've learned the real way

0:06:04to get through this is to buy his senior

0:06:07photos towards Brady it's also show

0:06:10proper deference in the beginning when

0:06:13you address him

0:06:17can I just say this and I say this all

0:06:19the time I do read all these emails that

0:06:21come in and look at your pictures I

0:06:23don't reply to the mall because if I

0:06:24don't fly straight away I kind of can't

0:06:26who but do send them they do get looked

0:06:29and I have got a few in my kind of war

0:06:32chest to bring up later on so if you

0:06:33haven't made it onto the show yet

0:06:35that means either i didn't use it gray

0:06:39cut it or you still might be coming

0:06:41look at you setting up false hope for

0:06:43the masses to be fair it's pretty

0:06:47unlikely you gonna get on the show if

0:06:48you sent it more than a few months ago

0:06:50but this is fantastic follow-up we

0:06:53continue to go deeper into the rabbit

0:06:56hole we are going to perfect it is a

0:07:00little bit amazing isn't it

0:07:01it is more than a little bit amazing

0:07:03okay and on our list of follow-up we

0:07:08also have what I feel like is again

0:07:11feeding into the very eager of the show

0:07:14that things we discuss seem to happen in

0:07:18the world after we discuss them and sure

0:07:20enough after we discussed your idea

0:07:23about alien life the reveal of it

0:07:26becoming boring through a series of

0:07:28press conferences that inch toward the

0:07:30actual reveal just a couple days after

0:07:32the show

0:07:33there was an article called this is not

0:07:35a drill city is investigating possible

0:07:37extraterrestrial signal from deep space

0:07:40the aliens are reaching out to hello

0:07:42Internet this is nuts and i have to say

0:07:46i did feel very very vindicated by this

0:07:49little new story that happened not hours

0:07:53after many people have listened to last

0:07:55FFL internet for those who missed this

0:07:58and you could well have missed the first

0:08:01contact because it was a pretty low-key

0:08:02story basically i think it was some

0:08:05russian astronomers yes reported a

0:08:09signal coming from a star which looks

0:08:12like a you know could be alien in origin

0:08:15and it was all this excitement it did

0:08:17make the front page of a couple of

0:08:18reputable newspapers and it was a big

0:08:20story it was cloaked in the suspicion

0:08:23that always does seem to click some

0:08:25announcements that come from Russia who

0:08:28like because it wasn't shared with the

0:08:30scientific community in a timely manner

0:08:32so it could be checked and therefore

0:08:33people were like we'll hang on

0:08:35why are they being secretive about it

0:08:36and sure enough a few days later the

0:08:39authorities and Russia themselves I

0:08:41think basically said are actually we now

0:08:43think this was probably not aliens it

0:08:45was probably to rest riyal in origin who

0:08:47so the story went away and just like I

0:08:51said false alarms minor announcements

0:08:54reviews when we finally here ETA it's

0:08:58going to be like this it's going to be

0:09:00boring i totally agree this is one of

0:09:02these things where I through an

0:09:05avalanche of people on Twitter received

0:09:07news of this story about like there's a

0:09:09signal that might be intelligent life

0:09:11out there in the universe so i received

0:09:13it like tons of stuff about this story

0:09:14and then as always goes with these

0:09:16things that you don't hear any of the

0:09:18follow-up so I was not aware of like oh

0:09:20now just like every other time we think

0:09:23it's some kind of signal bounced off

0:09:24earth or it's something else in the

0:09:25universe like a look we've discovered

0:09:27quasars you know whatever it is it turns

0:09:29out to be reasonably uninteresting but

0:09:32what it makes me think of which i'm

0:09:33pretty sure have said before on the show

0:09:34but I was always surprised by when I did

0:09:37the space topic with my students the

0:09:39number of students that thought humans

0:09:41had already been on Mars and any news of

0:09:45like oh we're working towards going on

0:09:47Mars was totally uninteresting to them

0:09:48because they're like hasn't this already

0:09:50happened

0:09:51I wonder with press releases like this

0:09:54or things that go out how many people

0:09:56just like somewhere in the back of their

0:09:57mind might be thinking like didn't we

0:09:59already discover aliens like how is this

0:10:01even knew that this happened a long time

0:10:03ago that discussion we had last time

0:10:07came in handy actually because I've

0:10:09actually just been on holiday the last

0:10:1045 days

0:10:11oh yeah i was actually up in the

0:10:12mountains near Marrakech again where I

0:10:15sometimes go with my wife and have very

0:10:17clear skies they are not and we went

0:10:19outside like on sun loungers and we just

0:10:22were looking at the stars with sometimes

0:10:23just go and look at the stars and see if

0:10:24we can spot a couple shooting stars and

0:10:27things like that and see if we can see a

0:10:28satellite or the space station

0:10:30it's really cool actually because they

0:10:32give you the special cloaks you can put

0:10:33out when you go outside and not they

0:10:35look just like Jedi cloaks they're like

0:10:37brown and I've got a hood so it's like

0:10:39you two Jedi is just going out to look

0:10:40up at the stars

0:10:41these are the hood that you have sent

0:10:44pictures of yourself pretending to be a

0:10:46Jedi in right like this is these clocks

0:10:48which is what you go to this place yes

0:10:50pretend village at i basically it's like

0:10:53Jedi so yeah so anyway we were lying

0:10:56there on the sunday and just looking up

0:10:57at the sky old stars and you know my

0:11:00wife doesn't listen to hello internet

0:11:01and but I leaned over and said I've got

0:11:04something for you to listen to and i

0:11:06just played her the section of hello

0:11:07Internet why do you beware way and in

0:11:09particular you talked about looking up

0:11:11at the sky and how like menacing it

0:11:13could be because it's so suspiciously

0:11:15silent men is this a sign that there's

0:11:17like a reason that silent up there like

0:11:19should we be shutting up so I should

0:11:21have listened to this and i played it

0:11:23what was the reaction like why would you

0:11:28do this

0:11:29I don't know my wife it does quite like

0:11:31conspiracy theory stuff sometimes I

0:11:33thought she'd like it when she asked a

0:11:35few questions and made a few comments

0:11:37but overall I think the final conclusion

0:11:40was I have enough stuff in the world to

0:11:43worry about it we are worried about it

0:11:45in the board coming head and destroying

0:11:47the earth like there's not much I can do

0:11:49about that and I think her main

0:11:51sentiment was why the heck if you put

0:11:53that idea in my head now so that when i

0:11:55look at the sky i can think about that

0:11:57too

0:11:57I feel like that's my job sometimes

0:11:59again I can plant an idea in someone's

0:12:01head that never goes away I feel like

0:12:03missing the cartilage to it does beg the

0:12:06question why you worried about it though

0:12:08because you're mr. you know i won't

0:12:11recycle or use one towel because i can't

0:12:14make a difference to the environment

0:12:16well you sure as heck can't make a

0:12:17difference to the electromagnetic

0:12:20radiation that humans are sending out

0:12:21into the universe or how the universe

0:12:23will respond to that electromagnetic

0:12:25radiation so what the heck you even

0:12:27thinking about that for

0:12:28I mean isn't this would worries are

0:12:30thoughts that pop up irrationally

0:12:32sometimes that's what I worry is this

0:12:35like I'm perfectly well aware there's

0:12:37nothing I can do to save humanity from

0:12:40the apocalypse of the abyss that's

0:12:43coming

0:12:43there's nothing I can do about that it's

0:12:45just a thing that your mind turns to on

0:12:48occasion but that's what we're doing is

0:12:50Brady

0:12:51cgpgrey being irrational my whole belief

0:12:54system is crumbling down around me I

0:12:56feel like anybody who has listen to this

0:12:57podcast long enough can find plenty of

0:12:59examples of me not being perfectly

0:13:01rational i don't think this is like a

0:13:03rare instance

0:13:04okay well that's a nice little segue for

0:13:07us to talk about the Apple watch

0:13:09oh haha ok you want to beat me up about

0:13:13the Apple watch again let's go

0:13:15I do because this is my ongoing crusade

0:13:18to save your horological so I sort of

0:13:21picture the other day that horrified me

0:13:24and I sent it to you deny you sent me a

0:13:27picture it was like some group of

0:13:29politicians in a press conference room

0:13:31somewhere and one of them was wearing an

0:13:34apple watching and you thought this was

0:13:35like a horrifying thing to send me that

0:13:38I would just recoil from and I don't

0:13:41know why it was all these important

0:13:43people sitting around the table in the

0:13:45Cabinet Room the Prime Minister there

0:13:47and they're all wearing what seemed to

0:13:48me to be quite nice sensible dignified

0:13:50classy watches and then there's just one

0:13:53minister there with her

0:13:55Tonka truck play watch it just stands

0:13:59out like something it stands out like a

0:14:02woman who knows what she's doing who's

0:14:04on top of the latest trends and

0:14:06technology is always connected if she

0:14:08needs to be when i see the apple watch

0:14:10on her wrist

0:14:11I assume she's the most competent person

0:14:12in the room i think that's the message

0:14:14the apple watch sentence be honest with

0:14:16me cry when you look at actually it's

0:14:18not like that which is at the tip you're

0:14:21always like no beyond his with me you

0:14:23always open with that because you cannot

0:14:25believe my actual parts at do you really

0:14:29think that looks good i think it looks

0:14:31perfectly fine and i think you just

0:14:32making a mountain out of nothing here

0:14:35Brady it's like people wear watches

0:14:37people where smartwatches I think it's

0:14:40perfectly fine i'm not a big fan of the

0:14:42white band but i would be not a fan of a

0:14:45white band on almost any watch so I feel

0:14:48like that's besides the point here you

0:14:50have an issue with what you refer to

0:14:52constantly as the Dead face of the Apple

0:14:54watch which to me just doesn't register

0:14:56as that it's not the Dead face that

0:14:58bothers me

0:14:59what bothers you still that you just

0:15:02can't let go at

0:15:03it just doesn't look good it doesn't it

0:15:06looks it's the wrong shape and I don't

0:15:08know it looks like someone's trying to

0:15:10where you know computer on their hand

0:15:12and that's exactly what they're doing

0:15:14yeah I know well tell me about the new

0:15:17one there was a big apple announcement

0:15:19wasn't there did you watch the Apple k

0:15:20night this week

0:15:22yeah as we are recording the apple

0:15:25keynote was last night and as usual and

0:15:28you like to try to set aside time to

0:15:30watch these things because I'm always

0:15:31very interested in what's going to

0:15:33happen so sit back relax have a glass of

0:15:37wine see what Tim Cook brings forth for

0:15:41the masses before we talk about what was

0:15:44brought forth can I just say my god i'm

0:15:46familiar with apple keynote and I've

0:15:47seen bits of them the floor but i don't

0:15:49usually watch them and I dipped into

0:15:51this one because I thought I have a

0:15:52quick look and see what's going on em

0:15:53because i saw on twitter that was on my

0:15:56goodness what an outdated car crash that

0:15:59presentation for me is it was so bad it

0:16:03looks like a parody i think i said at

0:16:06the time it looks like an onion spoof of

0:16:08a TEDTalk mm it's also earnest and so

0:16:12like everything's awesome and thanks Tim

0:16:16I'm so proud to be up here and tell you

0:16:18about what we're doing and it's such an

0:16:20antiquated way for a big technology

0:16:22company to be announcing things to the

0:16:25world it's like some kind of school

0:16:28variety show where the principal says

0:16:30okay everyone now i'm going to introduce

0:16:32little Jimmy that I'm not working really

0:16:35hard all week on this is written this

0:16:37power for you i want you all to listen

0:16:39really carefully now everyone let's give

0:16:42Jimmy a big clap as he cums on the stage

0:16:44yeah Jimmy Jimmy and then Jimmy comes

0:16:46out says thanks to him I am so proud to

0:16:50be here i have been learning my lines

0:16:53off by heart and i have been told where

0:16:56to look and how to move my body in the

0:16:59right way to do this demonstration here

0:17:03is my announcement

0:17:05thank you very much clap clap thanks

0:17:08Jimmy

0:17:09that was awesome now he is sandy it's

0:17:13like I can't believe these are like

0:17:14multi-millionaires leading the bigger

0:17:17technology company in the world it's

0:17:19horrendous I'm genuinely curious what do

0:17:23you think would be a better way to do

0:17:26this well I don't see why it has to be

0:17:28done in this live show kinda way for a

0:17:33start but em like I think the cool thing

0:17:37to do would be just have them appear in

0:17:39the store but of course then you've got

0:17:41to fade the media but at the same time

0:17:42that they just appear in the store you

0:17:44would feed the media what they need and

0:17:46of course you've got to put Tim Cook

0:17:48forward so that there's someone to put

0:17:49on the TV news and he has to hold the

0:17:51objects i get there has to be footage

0:17:53but this parade of people onstage

0:17:55prancing around like they're doing

0:17:57tedtalks i find it completely

0:17:59cringe-worthy and in terms of getting

0:18:02media time I don't see the TV use very

0:18:05often using like all those crappy

0:18:07tedtalks anyway they're only going to

0:18:09use a few clips from the boss anyway I

0:18:11think it's silly I don't understand

0:18:13tell me what school or tell me what's

0:18:14the way to do it see the thing is I

0:18:16don't know if I really disagree with you

0:18:19and I feel like Apple has had a couple

0:18:23of these in a row that were not great i

0:18:28think it last night's one was kind of

0:18:30boring just from an announcement

0:18:31perspective like they didn't really have

0:18:33a whole lot new to talk about that they

0:18:35certainly were kind of trying to present

0:18:36it that way but it's funny because I was

0:18:39kind of actually thinking something

0:18:41similar to what you were thinking about

0:18:42like boy this is very low information

0:18:47density like the number of bullet points

0:18:50that i'm going to get out of this

0:18:51presentation does not represent the two

0:18:54hours long that it is and i do have to

0:18:57say a bunch of the presenters felt super

0:19:00rehearsing and it's always like I can't

0:19:02blame them for that because I imagine if

0:19:04you're speaking on behalf of what is

0:19:06sometimes the world's most valuable

0:19:08company

0:19:09you can't go out there and kind of wing

0:19:11it like I'm sure absolutely everything

0:19:12has to be totally approved i think the

0:19:16reason that it happens is because they

0:19:20want an event to gather together all of

0:19:23the press people who immediately after

0:19:26that event they make the devices

0:19:29available for everybody

0:19:30the press to try them out and to shoot

0:19:32their reviews and to put up like first

0:19:34impressions you know this kind of thing

0:19:36like I think that's why it's there so

0:19:38that they can get someone like mkbhd to

0:19:42come to San Francisco to see the event

0:19:46and then to talk about the device on his

0:19:49youtube channel like an hour later and I

0:19:51think that their goal with those

0:19:54presentations is to try to like shape

0:19:58the mind of the media people before they

0:20:02see the thing that's my guess anyway I

0:20:04feel like if I was in charge of Apple

0:20:06like that's what I've been trying to do

0:20:07like I want to influence the media

0:20:09people to think about the phone in this

0:20:11way right not in some other way

0:20:15well that makes sense grow and I can see

0:20:17why they would want to do that i just

0:20:19think they could do a bit cooler i mean

0:20:22i know a lot of people hate on apple and

0:20:23a lot of people love them i tend to

0:20:25think most things that will do it pretty

0:20:26cool mmm i think most of their devices

0:20:28are cool i think the shops of cool

0:20:30places staffed by you know kind of young

0:20:33people and that and I think this is the

0:20:35one time every year that Apple seems

0:20:37like it's a bunch of corny dad's at work

0:20:41and it's the coldest thing Apple does i

0:20:44take it that you didn't see the very

0:20:46opening of this event then now I've read

0:20:48about that was a carpool karaoke thing

0:20:50but I'm scared to look at a car crash

0:20:52that obey it was totally baffling to me

0:20:54because i have never heard of carpool

0:20:56karaoke I have no idea what this thing

0:20:58is and when i started watching

0:21:00advantages like Tim Cook is in a car

0:21:02singing Sweet Home Alabama and they're

0:21:05just bantering about stuff is like oh

0:21:07god I don't know what this is but this

0:21:09is horrified like this is not this isn't

0:21:12a good way to start things guides

0:21:14I mean I like carpool karaoke I think

0:21:16they're pretty cool but there's no way I

0:21:18want to watch them cook doing it because

0:21:19I know how bad that ok I've got nothing

0:21:21against tim cook but he's not cool

0:21:23yeah i think he is a as far as i can

0:21:26tell like fantastic operations guy but

0:21:29yak cool he is not and he also has the

0:21:32problem of not quite passing the

0:21:36Maryland point of being uncool enough

0:21:39that he becomes cool um ok

0:21:42which-which built liability idea that

0:21:44people never it's like watching him and

0:21:47carpool karaoke my feeling was oh god

0:21:50you're inches away from the Maryland

0:21:53point but on the wrong side of this so i

0:21:55am actually just very uncomfortable

0:21:57watching this

0:21:58yeah I don't think Tim Cook celebrates

0:22:01his uncoolness the way that someone like

0:22:03Bill Gates does you know I think Tim

0:22:05Cook thinks he's kinda cool and he

0:22:08should realize he's not and celebrate

0:22:10that

0:22:10yeah you never know that the minds of

0:22:13other people i mean i feel like it takes

0:22:16a lot of guts to do something like that

0:22:17because he's gonna know that he's not

0:22:20cool and just do carpool karaoke anyway

0:22:23because it's kind of fun although i

0:22:25always find Apple a bit cringe-worthy

0:22:26when they say bring on celebrities and

0:22:28whose feels like Apple becomes a little

0:22:30bit of a screaming fangirl all of a

0:22:33sudden when they bring out like look

0:22:34it's bona alright look it's this guy in

0:22:37the car who somebody else is coming in

0:22:39the car like look at all of these

0:22:40celebrities who love Apple I mean I'm no

0:22:42expert here and i can get found out for

0:22:44my lack of Apple knowledge but I feel

0:22:46like in recent years they've been taken

0:22:48a beating for choosing slightly uncool

0:22:51celebrities that Tim Cook think so cool

0:22:54so it's like people like Bono and

0:22:57Coldplay and that whoever there is a

0:22:58little bit of our that's kind of how

0:22:59your dad's into exactly

0:23:02obviously this year's someone has gotten

0:23:03in there and said Nana we're not having

0:23:05the BGC at him with what you have to do

0:23:08is you have to get that James Corden

0:23:11going because everybody's talking about

0:23:13him he's big on YouTube anybody who's

0:23:15anybody is going into his car that's

0:23:17what we've got to do so i think this has

0:23:19been a desperate attempt to make Tim

0:23:21Cook look a bit more relevant to young

0:23:22people and I don't know I don't know how

0:23:26well it worked but I think that's what

0:23:27they were trying to do i'm not sure it

0:23:29works i'm not sure if that was their

0:23:31goal but i do have to totally agree with

0:23:34you that this one was I felt in a lot of

0:23:37points like the presenters were a bit

0:23:38awkward

0:23:39it felt kind of rushed or just not like

0:23:42a smooth machine and it is always weird

0:23:45when they turn over the stage to another

0:23:48person and then bring it back and thank

0:23:50you have just planted into my mind the

0:23:53idea that it's a school principal like

0:23:54pointing to

0:23:55Timmy who's going to do a presentation I

0:23:57will never not have that in my mind now

0:23:59when Tim Cook like hands it over to

0:24:01somebody else like she is she's been

0:24:04practicing for two weeks and we don't

0:24:06look like she's been practicing for

0:24:08three weeks as well that is gonna be my

0:24:10mind every time now so thanks for that

0:24:12but it's going to be in my mind because

0:24:14there's something about it which is true

0:24:16even though before I was trying to make

0:24:18the argument that when I think they're

0:24:19really doing is trying to sway the minds

0:24:24of the media before they see the devices

0:24:28hmm I wonder like does it really matter

0:24:31i mean i know this goes into my biases

0:24:32of like I think people overestimate the

0:24:35importance of news stories or like media

0:24:38reports on things of course there's no

0:24:40way to now but it's like let's say all

0:24:42of the media comes out and just slams

0:24:45the next iphone how many people will

0:24:48care

0:24:49like what would that translate into in

0:24:51terms of percentage change in sale of

0:24:54iphones like I just don't know I almost

0:24:57wonder like is this whole thing worth

0:25:00doing that does matter i think

0:25:02word-of-mouth matters like over

0:25:04breakfast tomorrow when we're talking

0:25:06about are we going to upgrade our

0:25:07iphones you so apparently it's pretty

0:25:09crap that's what i saw in the paper that

0:25:11can be enough to stop someone buying a

0:25:13fine

0:25:13oh yeah apparently it's a bit crappy

0:25:15apparently he's uglier than the other

0:25:17ones like those headline things do

0:25:19matter

0:25:20I think shaping and crafting the message

0:25:22is important actually as skeptical as

0:25:24I'm about and I think you know PR is

0:25:25evil and I can see why they do it and I

0:25:28say what's important

0:25:29I just think the way they're doing it is

0:25:30bad and you and I have been talking for

0:25:3220 minutes about how uncool apolis it's

0:25:35true I guess I should rephrase my

0:25:37earlier point because if you say

0:25:39something like oh the new phone is bad

0:25:41like okay people won't buy it but what I

0:25:43mean is what is the percentage that

0:25:46Apple can possibly move the minds of the

0:25:49people who are going to be viewing the

0:25:51phone anyway right in one direction or

0:25:53another I know that I agree with if

0:25:55you've had your plane ticket paid for

0:25:57and you've been wined and dined and

0:25:58you're getting five seconds of face time

0:26:01with Tim coozeman past you in the

0:26:02corridor that's powerful stuff

0:26:05yeah like journalists are very

0:26:06susceptible to junkets and freebase

0:26:09everybody is like it's so easy to show

0:26:11that like the trivial list of gifts

0:26:14influences people's minds even if they

0:26:16don't think that it does like you just

0:26:18can't not have this happen and this is

0:26:22why companies like to give stuff to

0:26:25people like to just review even just

0:26:27receiving the thing for free like no

0:26:29matter how much you try it does have a

0:26:32little bit of an influence yeah on your

0:26:34mind like it can't not the thing that I

0:26:36wonder with those presentations is

0:26:38almost always feel relief when they kind

0:26:40of cut away from the actual presentation

0:26:42to the pre-made videos

0:26:45they'll have like here's a little video

0:26:47about the new iphone which would like

0:26:48try to encapsulate everything in two

0:26:50minutes and here's a little video about

0:26:51the Apple watch when i found myself

0:26:54wondering last night was what if you

0:26:56just did the videos like what if you

0:26:57just drop those videos on YouTube and

0:27:00that was it and then phone show up in

0:27:02the store the next day how much of a

0:27:04difference would that mean I can see why

0:27:06they need an excuse to get the important

0:27:10people in one place like you said

0:27:12earlier I can't see that and i can see

0:27:14what needs to become an event like the

0:27:17Super Bowl you know that where people

0:27:18come together and there are parties the

0:27:20night before and not just to hold the

0:27:23things but just to bring people together

0:27:24in the feeling that this is an occasion

0:27:27this is important enough that we all

0:27:29need to be reporting on it and all the

0:27:30other journalists here reporting on it

0:27:32so i need to be reporting on i agree

0:27:34with that I just think they're format is

0:27:36looking really tired they upgrade

0:27:38everything else they do every 20 seconds

0:27:40and yet they won't upgrade this boring

0:27:42old format of this

0:27:43k night what upgrades you want them to

0:27:46do that like shorter fewer handoffs what

0:27:48you wanted a great if I was that smile

0:27:50probably wouldn't be here doing a

0:27:51podcast with you I'd be some millionaire

0:27:53consultant in America better i don't

0:27:55know what the solution is I just know

0:27:57that what they're doing

0:27:58looks terrible I couldn't watch

0:28:00embarrassed for them

0:28:01how are you everyone super thanks for

0:28:04asking

0:28:05this is amazing that was fabulous

0:28:09just to be clear that the listeners like

0:28:11even though I've been kind of agreeing

0:28:13with you that this year wasn't a

0:28:14particularly great presentation like

0:28:16maybe the change some things up next

0:28:17year

0:28:18I do personally like watching it because

0:28:21i'm really interested in this and I

0:28:23think there's always a fun game which is

0:28:25the speculate what is going on inside

0:28:28Apple game based on like what you see on

0:28:30the outside and what they say that kind

0:28:32of Criminology is a thing that I am just

0:28:35interested in with regards to apple and

0:28:38as always there's no explaining any

0:28:39interest like that's why I will sit down

0:28:42and I'll watch it like and I am kind of

0:28:44very curious about the details like

0:28:45who's doing what

0:28:47what things are they choosing to focus

0:28:48on right I I like all of that stuff

0:28:51this is me being like someone who's a

0:28:53policy wonk and who is super into the

0:28:56details of like a particular candidates

0:28:58platform like what do they think about

0:29:00this you know what are they gonna do

0:29:01with that i am aware like outside of

0:29:05myself and a relatively small group of

0:29:09people like most of the world doesn't

0:29:10care

0:29:10I think they're just gonna be like oh

0:29:11there's a new phone in the store when

0:29:13they walk by and they see it in the

0:29:14window like that is essentially

0:29:16everybody's experience i don't agree

0:29:19with that there's a new phone in the

0:29:21window thing i do you think people are

0:29:23aware that when apple announced what the

0:29:26new phone is all the new computers or

0:29:27the new technologies it is like an event

0:29:30people do know that but my wife I said

0:29:32to my wife are the new iphones are

0:29:33coming out soon because it was in my

0:29:35head and she said yes being announced on

0:29:36September seven so like people do know

0:29:39it's an event and a time of the year and

0:29:41that and so Apple have been smart to do

0:29:42that and like i said i agree with making

0:29:45a big who hired a big event and maybe

0:29:48even doing something that gives the

0:29:49Apple nodes that you some kind of

0:29:51glimpse then maybe just do it better and

0:29:54that's always the best advice just do it

0:29:57better at the things you're not doing

0:30:02well don't do those two things better

0:30:04so in terms of the actual announcements

0:30:07anything worth knowing i know there's a

0:30:09new version of the watch that's not much

0:30:11different and the phone is waterproof

0:30:13and the microphone jacks on the way out

0:30:16that seems to be all i know yeah people

0:30:18are really upset about the headphone

0:30:19jack like that's that's kind of a big

0:30:21story i guess but this one I just felt

0:30:25like there was not really anything of

0:30:28note

0:30:30it's like they've made a phone that's

0:30:31the exact same size as the phone before

0:30:33and they're like oh it's faster ok sure

0:30:36it's faster I can understand they have a

0:30:38new camera on it but it just to me and

0:30:41it's it just seemed like there wasn't

0:30:42really anything of supernote like I'm

0:30:44glad there's a new version of the Apple

0:30:46watch which is coming out again like

0:30:47it's a little faster but nothing of

0:30:49supernote and I feel like the past to

0:30:52apple events have been this way for me

0:30:53of like oh there's new things you have

0:30:56some new hardware and the new version of

0:30:59your operating system is coming out but

0:31:01it just feels like nothing for me in

0:31:04these last two apple events like over to

0:31:07on significant interesting wow I can't

0:31:10wait to get my hands on that kind of

0:31:11exciting stuff

0:31:13this comes just a little boring an apple

0:31:14world you still buy everything and

0:31:16upgrade everything presumably i'm going

0:31:17to get the new watch

0:31:18but i don't think i'm gonna get the new

0:31:20phone as we discussed before like I'm

0:31:23very happy with my small size phone i

0:31:26really like it i might have been tempted

0:31:28away back to the 6 plus which i think is

0:31:31the only other reasonable size if they

0:31:34had actually made it smaller and

0:31:36significantly lighter but this is like

0:31:39the one year i'm thinking like if Apple

0:31:41makes the phone a little bit smaller a

0:31:43little bit lighter i might go back

0:31:44this is like the first year ever that

0:31:46Apple's like no exact same size hope you

0:31:48like it

0:31:49so no new phone for me this time around

0:31:52are you gonna be sticking with your SE I

0:31:55am I am starting to have a few

0:31:57annoyances with that

0:31:59oh yeah like what yeah but mainly typing

0:32:02I feel like I'm making more typing

0:32:05errors and I am butt dialing with a more

0:32:09often for some reason and things like

0:32:11that and I seem to be miss pressing and

0:32:13having problems with it more but that

0:32:16also could because I've done away with

0:32:17the case

0:32:19mhm I didn't tell you my funny but tile

0:32:21story is what I don't really know how

0:32:22but dialing happens but please tell me

0:32:25your butt dials do I know this isn't

0:32:26exactly about dial story but this is

0:32:28kind of like that

0:32:29ok I was a wedding actually recently and

0:32:31I was with Destin em Destin who is from

0:32:35the youtube channel smarter every day

0:32:36for people who don't know and he is a

0:32:38great disciple of snapchat as we've

0:32:41discussed before him and we were playing

0:32:43on

0:32:43snapchat together and we were making

0:32:45funny videos and we were just clowning

0:32:46around and suddenly my phone made a

0:32:49noise that I've never heard before like

0:32:52an alert like some strange noise

0:32:55hmm and I didn't know what was going on

0:32:57and I was touching the screen and try to

0:32:59make it go away and I didn't know what's

0:33:01going on and I touch something because

0:33:02it went away and I was like what the

0:33:05heck was there and then I was sort of

0:33:07looking at the phone and the snapchat

0:33:09app was open and I was looking at the

0:33:10apt to try and figure out what was going

0:33:11on and then I saw that someone had tried

0:33:14to call me using snapchat snapchat turns

0:33:17out has this kind of phone voice thing

0:33:20that you can do to call people and this

0:33:22was news to me and I was like destiny

0:33:24look man

0:33:25someone tried to call me some stranger's

0:33:27tried to call me that's outrageous

0:33:29like I didn't even know that could

0:33:30happen and Destin was kind of looking

0:33:33going on and what's going on and then

0:33:34suddenly this voice comes out of the

0:33:36phone saying our hi I'm here and I

0:33:39didn't call you you code me and like

0:33:43what had happened was like some stranger

0:33:45who snap i looked at or something quite

0:33:47obviously just press some button next to

0:33:49that person's name to phone them out of

0:33:51the blue they haven't known what's going

0:33:54on

0:33:54they've answered the phone and there's

0:33:56me saying could you believe some

0:33:58stranger's tried to call me this is

0:34:00outrageous and test and i were talking

0:34:02about and he was just like the poor sod

0:34:03was just there listening to us talking

0:34:05and he was like why I didn't I didn't

0:34:08call you and then I was like who is this

0:34:10and he said he was and we had a chat and

0:34:12I'm like oh I'm here with destiny was

0:34:13like that's great and we ended up having

0:34:15a chair with him

0:34:16oh haha i was super apologetic because i

0:34:20was just a total ham-fisted idiot who

0:34:22interrupted this poor persons day but we

0:34:25had a chat to him for a while that was

0:34:26nice and then I was like well anyway so

0:34:28sorry about Latin and hang up

0:34:31I mean to be fair if it's snapchat this

0:34:33is not fun dialing this is just you

0:34:35pressed one of their unlabeled

0:34:37hieroglyphics or you swiped wrong on the

0:34:39screen right who knows is the controls

0:34:43of the spaceship and alien race like you

0:34:44press a button and it means we're going

0:34:46to cause a random

0:34:47anyway it was really nice about it and

0:34:50I'm our medical for myself but another

0:34:53pitfall of snapchat careful it's not

0:34:55just accidentally following people or

0:34:57accidentally things like that now she

0:34:58can accidentally phone someone and not

0:35:00know your phone them and then they're

0:35:02listening to you talk right

0:35:03great more and more reasons to use

0:35:05snapchat every day although this makes

0:35:09me think

0:35:10are you one of those people Brady who if

0:35:11you are talking about someone who's not

0:35:15in the room feels the need to check

0:35:18their phone to make sure that their

0:35:19phone isn't on and hasn't called the

0:35:21person do you do this i am not but I did

0:35:24have a friend who used to do that

0:35:25because he got burned by he was talking

0:35:27negatively about someone and he had butt

0:35:29dialed that person and i was listening

0:35:31to him i was about to launch into a like

0:35:32boy isn't this a ridiculous thing that

0:35:35people worry about like I know several

0:35:37people who do this and I always find

0:35:38it's just the strange behavior ever but

0:35:40you're telling me you actually know

0:35:41someone this happened to thinking maybe

0:35:44this is the thing that's not so

0:35:45incredible I mean to be fair it was his

0:35:48girlfriend at the time and if there's

0:35:50one person you're likely to accidentally

0:35:52call it probably girlfriend because

0:35:54she's not going to be the last person

0:35:55you find and if there's someone you're

0:35:56likely to be talking about behind their

0:35:58back it could also be your girlfriend so

0:36:00while it's incredibly unlucky if it was

0:36:03ever going to happen that would be one

0:36:04of the more likely scenarios so I think

0:36:06he was saying things about his

0:36:08girlfriend that were not complementary

0:36:09and she was listening from his pocket so

0:36:11from that time on whenever we were out

0:36:13like at bars and things like that if he

0:36:15was talking about anyone he took his

0:36:16phone out of his pocket and had a look

0:36:18first

0:36:18wow I can't believe you know some of

0:36:20this actually happened to that's amazing

0:36:22to me if someone accidentally called you

0:36:25and they were talking about you would

0:36:28you feel any responsibility to yell out

0:36:31hey I'm right here listening to you or

0:36:33we do it quietly listen the whole time I

0:36:36don't know what I would do like if I do

0:36:38get dialed occasionally and i actually

0:36:40but doubt someone I work with the other

0:36:42day and like they called me back and I

0:36:44didn't know I'd call them and I'd been

0:36:45out of bar being really Larry to say

0:36:47goodness knows what they heard

0:36:48but I accidentally once but Dad someone

0:36:51who I work with and I was in a really

0:36:53important business meeting talking about

0:36:54that person and like deals and things

0:36:57and they knew i was in this meeting and

0:36:59you know who this person is and they set

0:37:01there and listen to the whole meeting

0:37:02and then afterward spoke to me about it

0:37:04I feel like you're this amazing

0:37:05epicenter of this thing actually

0:37:07occurring rejected the cylinders like an

0:37:09urban legend think it was occurs i will

0:37:13confess to one thing em back in my

0:37:16journalist days i did have like a

0:37:19contact who would sometimes help me with

0:37:24information and tell me stories that I

0:37:26wasn't yet supposed to know about em and

0:37:29this person accidentally found me once

0:37:31from their bag but I wasn't sure if

0:37:33they'd find me accidentally or they had

0:37:35fine because they wanted me to hear

0:37:37something important so I did stay on the

0:37:40phone for a few minutes just in case

0:37:41like I was supposed to hear some amazing

0:37:44information but it turns out they were

0:37:45shopping and walking around town and

0:37:47after two or three minutes sounds like

0:37:48RK that's an accident it wasn't a

0:37:51meeting with the Illuminati and you were

0:37:53here the only reporter who was going to

0:37:54get the story out there exactly but you

0:37:57never know

0:37:58so I did stick with that one for a few

0:37:59minutes until i realized now they just

0:38:01start walking around

0:38:02hello Internet today i have a book

0:38:05recommendation for you which means that

0:38:06of course this podcast is brought to you

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0:38:19listen to now today's recommendation is

0:38:21how to get filthy rich in rising asia

0:38:24it's a weird title for a weird book but

0:38:28boy did I like this one it's a novel and

0:38:31just as with the movies that we want for

0:38:33homework I think novels are best

0:38:35appreciated cold without really any

0:38:37introduction to the plot or the details

0:38:41but i will say that how to get filthy

0:38:43rich in rising asia is written in the

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0:38:49from the first person I or from the

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0:38:54this one is written from the second

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0:38:58this book from audible you will be

0:39:00hearing how you woke up

0:39:02in the morning and you went to do

0:39:04something now I know you're thinking

0:39:05that probably sounds like a terrible way

0:39:07to write a book and the last time you

0:39:09read something like that was almost

0:39:10certainly in some awful english class

0:39:13where they forced you to read an overly

0:39:16artsy and terribly boring piece of

0:39:19writing like that but trust me how to

0:39:21get filthy rich in rising asia i like it

0:39:23way more than i expected that I would

0:39:25and I found it really quite affecting so

0:39:28check it out at audible.com that's where

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0:40:02one how to get filthy rich in rising

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0:40:18you can listen to their audio books on

0:40:20any device at any time they make players

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0:40:48show so gray something that doesn't

0:40:52often happen to you you have been a

0:40:54victim of rating I feel like in the

0:40:56world of people who put out educational

0:40:59videos i feel like i have been probably

0:41:02one of the luckier people with regards

0:41:05to not getting free booted I think

0:41:08perhaps me Destin is the unluckiest

0:41:11along

0:41:13with your chemistry videos as well like

0:41:16those get free booted all over the place

0:41:18I feel like most of the time i have been

0:41:21relatively getting off scot-free as far

0:41:24as these things go but in the last video

0:41:26that i just put up which was the one

0:41:28about the simple solution to traffic

0:41:31this was perhaps the first time that I

0:41:33saw a video just getting free booted all

0:41:37over facebook just like a ton of

0:41:39different places all posting it and by

0:41:43my rough estimate across all of the

0:41:45various sources it was something like 10

0:41:47million views on facebook which

0:41:50considering that the video gets like

0:41:52three million views on YouTube which is

0:41:53fantastic but of course as always with

0:41:56the freebooting it does really hurt deep

0:41:59to see your video getting spread in a

0:42:02bunch of other places and you're not

0:42:04really getting any of the rewards that

0:42:07go along with it

0:42:08well I've got a few questions worry

0:42:10about it then moon first of all day if I

0:42:13can make an observation about the video

0:42:15itself

0:42:16this is another excellent example to me

0:42:20of things that I assume everyone knows

0:42:23that maybe they don't know little

0:42:26because i watch that video i thought it

0:42:27was really good well explained and nice

0:42:29that but I thought doesn't everyone know

0:42:31this like this is what causes traffic

0:42:33snarls and it's all human reaction times

0:42:35and I saw these people sharing and

0:42:37tweeting and saying this is amazing

0:42:39great explains this and I'm going to

0:42:41check this out i was like what happened

0:42:43huh right is this news to people

0:42:46gosh I feel like there's a thousand

0:42:48videos waiting to be made now that I

0:42:49thought were worth making all these

0:42:51things I can explain to people that

0:42:53maybe they don't know that i think is an

0:42:56excellent excellent point because this

0:42:59is like a skill i think in making any

0:43:02kind of thing where you're explaining

0:43:03stuff to people on the internet that i

0:43:05often fall on the wrong side of as well

0:43:07where it is super easy to over assume

0:43:12how much other people know about any

0:43:15topic and something that happens to me

0:43:17sometimes when I'm like working on a

0:43:18video is that by the time i get to the

0:43:21end of the research phase was like okay

0:43:22I've read a whole bunch of stuff about

0:43:23this thing actually currently happening

0:43:25with the video I'm working on

0:43:26right now but it's like at the end of

0:43:28this phase i end up with this feeling of

0:43:29well doesn't just everybody know this

0:43:32right it's like Shirley everybody just

0:43:34does

0:43:35it's so easy to over assume that the

0:43:37things you know are the things that

0:43:39everybody else knows

0:43:42doesn't everybody who's got the

0:43:43Antarctic is exactly perfect example is

0:43:48absolutely perfect example

0:43:50it's a thing that I think I'm bad at

0:43:52this but I often try to remind myself

0:43:53like the world contains essentially an

0:43:57infinite amount of knowledge like

0:44:00there's an infinite number of things to

0:44:02know and practically by definition the

0:44:05people who are going to spread this

0:44:07video are going to be the people who

0:44:10didn't know this right like the people

0:44:14who do know this are not going to be

0:44:15people who feel like wow I have to

0:44:17really share this on twitter because

0:44:18it's like a thing that's in their head

0:44:20but I was really uncertain about how

0:44:23this video would do because this was a

0:44:25case where I thought I might be on the

0:44:27wrong side of this i was thinking like I

0:44:29bet enough people don't know this but i

0:44:31might be totally wrong

0:44:33like I might have just made a video

0:44:35called did you know the moon goes around

0:44:37the earth like there's a point at which

0:44:39people don't know that and then there's

0:44:41a point at which people do but you

0:44:43assume like essentially everybody who's

0:44:45old enough to be watching YouTube would

0:44:46know if act like that so there is also a

0:44:48point where you can be a big enough and

0:44:50famous enough explain that everyone will

0:44:52share it to I mean you probably could

0:44:54make the moon goes around the earth just

0:44:55like the resource could make that video

0:44:58and you'd be guaranteed a higher

0:45:00baseline of sharing but yeah but Vsauce

0:45:03would somehow you know connect owed the

0:45:06moon going around the earth and then all

0:45:07of a sudden we be talking about like how

0:45:09bread bakes like it would it would be

0:45:11all over us right at me like oh and then

0:45:13how much does your shadow way like we

0:45:15can measure the shadow of the moon right

0:45:16and like you just know that's how Vsauce

0:45:18video will go i don't think a

0:45:19straightforward video about the moon

0:45:21going around the earth in the same way i

0:45:22made a straightforward video about like

0:45:24how does traffic happen i don't think

0:45:26that would go anywhere unified it so

0:45:28obviously the mistake that you made with

0:45:30your self driving car video is I assume

0:45:33someone else animated for you because it

0:45:35didn't look like your animations vastly

0:45:37beyond my skill level yeah had some very

0:45:39nice

0:45:40visualizations in it which was also very

0:45:42helpful to the videos success i'm sure

0:45:44but it also meant it was suddenly

0:45:46eminently stealable because now it

0:45:49wasn't just some nerdy American guy

0:45:52explaining something cleverly it had

0:45:53pretty pictures and that means

0:45:56freebooters swoop

0:45:59here's some eye candy for us to feed to

0:46:01the masses do you think that was my

0:46:02downfall is that it looked too good and

0:46:04that's why I fallen into the realm of of

0:46:06freebooting well it's not going to look

0:46:08too good it visualized what you're

0:46:10explaining normally your craft and the

0:46:13thing that you do well is you explain

0:46:15things well with words man the animation

0:46:18is almost you know if your little jokes

0:46:20and afterthoughts instantly people

0:46:22occupied but this time the pictures did

0:46:26more than your words did we have

0:46:27pictures that tell the story this time

0:46:29and that's brilliant

0:46:30you know welcome to the medium of video

0:46:32great thank you thank you i genuinely

0:46:35have not really been involved in it like

0:46:37I don't even mean that as a joke again

0:46:39it is true like my videos are not

0:46:40exactly videos in the same way that your

0:46:43videos are video is so while you i am

0:46:46welcoming you to the world of video with

0:46:47open arms i'm also will continue to the

0:46:49world of freebooting they have been out

0:46:52to say so you obviously got free booted

0:46:54like a wild man and i know it because

0:46:56most people who know that you don't

0:46:58really miles and tweets we're alerting

0:46:59me to the free routing of grace video

0:47:01thank you very much for that up is not

0:47:04you don't need to alert me to graze

0:47:06videos being free boat just it's bad

0:47:08enough when you let me to mine

0:47:10no I say I think you do need to know

0:47:11really the extra funny thing about this

0:47:14is i did have a suspicion that this one

0:47:17was going to be give booted I thought

0:47:20our there's a couple sections in here

0:47:21where I can already see this is becoming

0:47:23a gif on imager and repeated like 28

0:47:27million times

0:47:28so yeah I don't know if you saw but on

0:47:31my blog when I actually posted the video

0:47:34i prepared for being gift booted by gift

0:47:37booting myself by taking what i thought

0:47:39was like the most little iconic shot

0:47:42which is a bunch of cars going around a

0:47:44circle and in the video you only see it

0:47:47for a few seconds these cars going

0:47:49around a circle in a traffic way of

0:47:50going around

0:47:51the opposite direction so that will be

0:47:53great have a gift that's actually the

0:47:55complete thing and let me try to water

0:47:58market with where it actually came from

0:48:00so i can i'm adding value with this gift

0:48:03like here internet go ahead gift boot

0:48:05this all over the place

0:48:07I didn't see a single person totes to

0:48:09know it's like why do that when you can

0:48:12just make your own from the video and

0:48:13put your watermark on it but i thought

0:48:16like look this gift is a perfect gifts

0:48:18it's smooth right it goes all the way

0:48:19around if you couldn't even pull this

0:48:21out of the video if you want to do

0:48:22nope it's like if you make it think

0:48:24available it's like it's no more fun

0:48:26anymore to give boot

0:48:27no I don't want that is going to take

0:48:28your video that's right grand i think

0:48:31one of the things that people don't

0:48:32understand about freebooting i think a

0:48:34lot of people think freebooters are like

0:48:36altruistic and all they're trying to do

0:48:38is share the love em but no the most

0:48:41freebooters are not that they're trying

0:48:42to build their own followings in their

0:48:44own base and their own Facebook page in

0:48:46their own reputation as a supplier of

0:48:49interesting content they don't want to

0:48:51just share the love and maybe help great

0:48:53on the way they're all about themselves

0:48:55and building themselves and you've given

0:48:57them a nice juicy piece of yummy content

0:48:59yeah that they can take and then get all

0:49:01the glory for finding and sharing and

0:49:03don't think that most freebooters

0:49:05altruistic people most of them are not

0:49:08yeah they're not these indie rebel

0:49:09pirates that are you know trying to get

0:49:11the plans to the death star to save the

0:49:13galaxy

0:49:14they're all about themselves and you

0:49:16totally right i attempt to pre gift boot

0:49:19myself was doomed before it even started

0:49:21thinking about it all wrong way i was

0:49:24thinking about the totally wrong

0:49:25audience because you write every place

0:49:27where i saw that it had hundreds of

0:49:29thousands or millions of views was

0:49:31obviously just a professional content

0:49:33aggregator and who does this all the

0:49:34time

0:49:35the thing is I wouldn't be so frustrated

0:49:38by this if so I've done a couple of

0:49:41little experiments trying to put videos

0:49:43up on facebook to see like what if I do

0:49:46what I think facebook wants me to do

0:49:48which is like in bed my own videos using

0:49:51their actual player and put it up on

0:49:53facebook like I have done little tests

0:49:55in this direction to try to let you put

0:49:57my toe in the water and the end result

0:50:01has always been like all your videos do

0:50:02terribly on facebook

0:50:03if you post your own video on facebook

0:50:06it doesn't do very well if somebody else

0:50:08post your video on facebook millions of

0:50:10views right it's like yeah it's doubly

0:50:12frustrating it's like facebook if you

0:50:15could make my own videos the source of

0:50:18all of these views i would be much more

0:50:21likely to give in to what you want which

0:50:23is to just put my own videos on there as

0:50:25well but my own tests have said like

0:50:27this is not a useful endeavor and so we

0:50:29end up in this negative feedback loop

0:50:31where it's like I resent having a

0:50:33facebook page in the first place so i

0:50:34don't necessarily spend a lot of time on

0:50:36it that just feeds into the cycle like

0:50:38when other people post your videos

0:50:40it gets even more viral it's just it's

0:50:42very frustrating and there is no way

0:50:45around it but I do just want to say very

0:50:47quickly a quick thank you to everybody

0:50:50in my audience who reported all the

0:50:53various facebook freebooting is because

0:50:56right after the video went up there were

0:50:58some things i had to attend to so i

0:51:00couldn't actually spend a bunch of time

0:51:01filling have fun copyright forms on

0:51:04facebook to try to get this stuff taken

0:51:05down but I was quite pleased to see that

0:51:08when I did go back around to try to

0:51:10after-the-fact futilely pointlessly try

0:51:14to get some of the stuff taken down that

0:51:16essentially everything had already been

0:51:18reported into oblivion and remove so

0:51:21thank you to my audience members who did

0:51:23report that stuff I do appreciate it

0:51:26so I was going to ask if you sort of

0:51:28took action because sometimes i get the

0:51:30impression that you're a little bit say

0:51:32levator the wild west of the internet

0:51:34and you think you know if you can't beat

0:51:36them just let him go but you were

0:51:37determined to try and get some of this

0:51:39stuff removed i go in cycles with this

0:51:43stuff sometimes it really bothers me

0:51:45sometimes I feel like you're trying to

0:51:48hold the tide back is spending an

0:51:50afternoon going down and chasing down

0:51:53all of the freebooters and actually roi

0:51:56positive use of my time like probably

0:51:59not because they've already made the

0:52:01money that they're going to make i'm not

0:52:02going to get anything back from this

0:52:04it's like it's already lost

0:52:06why do other people get to be like

0:52:08parasites off of the work that I do and

0:52:11then i get riled up and do go around and

0:52:13try to handle this stuff but so this

0:52:15time when I was in a wild mood i was

0:52:17pleasantly surprised to see that

0:52:19essentially my audience had taken care

0:52:20of it so I was that was happy about that

0:52:22thank you everybody this episode is

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0:54:13the show you know how when you look at a

0:54:16word for too long luck sometimes stops

0:54:19looking like a word I've been looking at

0:54:22the word freebooting in the show notes

0:54:23for the last five or six minutes and it

0:54:25no longer seems like a real

0:54:26word to me it's not a real word breeding

0:54:29I know what I wouldn't be tragic if the

0:54:32word freebooting stopped existing don't

0:54:34look at it too long a billion neurons

0:54:36are just getting tired you can't

0:54:37recognize the pattern anymore that's

0:54:39happening i have had an insanely crazy

0:54:41day I don't think I've worked as hard as

0:54:44I had it today for a long time

0:54:46oh yeah yeah so if i do start going a

0:54:48bit delirious

0:54:50that's what's happening what time did

0:54:52you get up 9am early Brady timeout know

0:54:55about eight-thirty oh wow

0:54:58no wow that is very early for you yeah

0:55:01but i didn't have that period in the

0:55:03middle of the day where I just sort of

0:55:04go a bit fellow and do nothing and just

0:55:06surf the internet for an hour but i

0:55:08couldn't i don't have time for that

0:55:09oh my that matter I had to work through

0:55:12that look like you're in a coal mine

0:55:16Brady what was going on and I and in

0:55:18between and whenever I did have five or

0:55:20ten minutes break i had to do my

0:55:21homework for the part of the show that's

0:55:22coming up in a minute

0:55:23mhm I'm glad you did your homework i'm

0:55:26sure the listeners will appreciate it so

0:55:28quick update on projekt revolution

0:55:30what's going on with projekt revolution

0:55:32this is the vinyl episode of Hello

0:55:34internet of course everybody's going to

0:55:36know it by its project name who wouldn't

0:55:38know about that

0:55:41yeah well you didn't use the project

0:55:42name in the show notes would secretly

0:55:44disappoints me you just put record

0:55:45follow-up I'm sorry

0:55:47yeah so the initial pressing that first

0:55:52then depressing we did I think it would

0:55:54be fair to say sold out a little bit

0:55:57more quickly then was anticipated

0:56:00yeah it seemed like we dramatically

0:56:04underestimated the enthusiasm for the

0:56:09final episode of the podcast i think

0:56:11that would be like a funny little quirky

0:56:13one off that some people might really

0:56:15treasure it is like how many people can

0:56:17possibly be

0:56:18we worried that 250 was like oh we might

0:56:21have printed 10 times more than we need

0:56:24but our estimates were very off very off

0:56:27we got that wrong

0:56:28we got that wrong and lots of ways yes

0:56:30so I have arranged a second pressing

0:56:33that also sold out very quickly

0:56:36so I'm going to arrange sort of another

0:56:39batch to be released

0:56:40I'm learning a lot about business and no

0:56:42real any production and fulfillment and

0:56:46all sorts of things I've bitten off more

0:56:48than i intended to choose but i'm still

0:56:50excited because i don't know if it came

0:56:52across last time but releasing a record

0:56:55is something that like as a kid that

0:56:56would seem that you would never do so

0:56:58doing it is like feeling a little like

0:57:00you know of any dream isn't it like a

0:57:01little thing but I didn't realize all

0:57:04the hassle that would come with it so

0:57:05I'm working through it i'm still super

0:57:07excited about and I also very excited to

0:57:10say that yesterday I took delivery of

0:57:13the five test pressings know this is

0:57:17without all the slaves and the artwork

0:57:20and the labels it's just pure vinyl just

0:57:21to test that the mold or depressing

0:57:23thing that made works so i have got five

0:57:26copies and i have listened to it on a

0:57:29record player and i'm happy to report it

0:57:32was successful

0:57:34fantastic so it looks like we're going

0:57:36to be pressing the big green light on

0:57:38the more elaborate runs and the our work

0:57:40is going to be printed up so it's all go

0:57:43and i will try to keep people informed

0:57:46by things like my artists and Twitter

0:57:49and patreon about any news about how

0:57:52it's going and also availability of more

0:57:54units have been when they become

0:57:56available

0:57:57apologies to people who have missed our

0:58:00apologies to people who think the whole

0:58:01idea is ludicrous and a massive thank

0:58:04you to people who think it's really cool

0:58:05and I'm even more massive thank you to

0:58:07people who think it's so cool that

0:58:08they've bought one

0:58:10it's amazing yeah it's absolutely

0:58:12amazing and the thing that I have

0:58:14enjoyed seeing as well and especially in

0:58:16the beginning since it seemed like we

0:58:18were quite supply constrained was I did

0:58:21see a bunch of people at through various

0:58:23means trying to arrange hello Internet

0:58:26listening parties like we sort of threw

0:58:28out the idea of like oh maybe people

0:58:30will do this is a thing

0:58:32it warmed my heart to see people trying

0:58:35to arrange actual hello Internet

0:58:38listening parties and it's like the

0:58:40whole project seems like ridiculous and

0:58:42fun but I have to say I really like the

0:58:44idea

0:58:45of the people who were able to get one

0:58:49of the early releases of of the record

0:58:52like opening up their homes had to a

0:58:54bunch of random other listeners and just

0:58:57like having a listening party for the

0:58:59show I think that's absolutely fantastic

0:59:02that it's actually going to be happening

0:59:03in the least a few places so that's just

0:59:06great makes me smile to think about that

0:59:07you're gonna go to one if you get an

0:59:09invite and now i figger show i was there

0:59:12i was that listening party 0 creation

0:59:17yeah now just one little secret wink if

0:59:22you did get one of the very very first

0:59:24batch your copy will be very very subtly

0:59:31different to the subsequent releases

0:59:34only the trained eye will know how

0:59:36nothing about the actual sound of the

0:59:38episode is different just a very very

0:59:40small small subtle thing to do with the

0:59:43artwork will be different so if you've

0:59:45got one of those first 250 uber limited

0:59:48editions who you can still feel good

0:59:51about yourself still feel like your

0:59:53enthusiasm has been rewarded in the

0:59:55smallest smallest way because i know

0:59:57people will appreciate that

0:59:59yeah and you have to

0:59:59yeah and you have to

1:00:00do you have to visually markup the

1:00:02differences between the printings now

1:00:04you have to have some things that the

1:00:06the train collectors can recognize which

1:00:09one of those records is the original 250

1:00:12and which one is just a later printing

1:00:15just a leader just like different later

1:00:20friends because of our massive air her

1:00:22that's the baby what people want its i

1:00:25will be very curious to see if anybody

1:00:27spots or notices the little easter egg

1:00:30there for those first 250 but please

1:00:33please if you are like some you know

1:00:36compulsive collector who can't help

1:00:39yourself please don't buy one of H

1:00:41because you have to have both I promise

1:00:44you the difference is so small that it

1:00:46is not worth having both don't be like

1:00:48me you probably would do that don't do

1:00:50it this sounds like the worst reverse

1:00:52psychology ever i hope i don't buy both

1:00:55copies of ours sold out record on the

1:00:58black market right don't do that at all

1:01:00it i know that you genuinely don't want

1:01:04people to do it but you're doing this in

1:01:06the most unconvincing possible that

1:01:08makes it sound like an exciting thing to

1:01:10do

1:01:10that was great that was absolutely

1:01:12terrible era do it that do it don't do

1:01:17it don't do it is really know where that

1:01:19people don't do it one is more than

1:01:23enough gray a lot of people have asked

1:01:26so we should just quickly touch on had

1:01:28enough either of us have anything to say

1:01:29about it

1:01:30this is the YouTube scandal that has

1:01:34been running over the last few days that

1:01:37i'm sure by the time this comes out

1:01:38we'll have disappeared like all news

1:01:40stories

1:01:41this is the demagnetization of youtube

1:01:45videos

1:01:46how would you explain the story to

1:01:48people who have not had their twitter

1:01:51feed filled with it

1:01:52I'm the worst person in the world to try

1:01:54to summarize this because i haven't been

1:01:56following it too closely but it's a

1:01:59thing that came to my attention because

1:02:01the thing that struck some of my friends

1:02:03basically what happened was about a week

1:02:07ago it and we're recording this

1:02:10a bunch of people woke up to discover

1:02:13that YouTube had d monetized a bunch of

1:02:18their videos so what that means is that

1:02:20YouTube was no longer running any ads on

1:02:25their videos and this whole thing kind

1:02:28of started with a video by philip

1:02:31defranco who was the first major person

1:02:33I think who talked about it and then has

1:02:35these things like oh here we go youtube

1:02:37drama right like everybody wants to

1:02:39quickly get in on the act and kind of

1:02:41talk about it and get riled up about

1:02:43this issue but the briefness way to

1:02:46explain what it is is that YouTube has a

1:02:49set of content guidelines for things

1:02:53that they don't think our advertiser

1:02:57friendly and so that they were d

1:02:59monetizing videos that had this kind of

1:03:02content now the thing that pisses story

1:03:06a little bit worse is it was this big

1:03:09grumble grumble grumble YouTube isn't

1:03:11implemented this policy like isn't this

1:03:13terrible everybody's absolutely furious

1:03:14about it and then in a twist which I

1:03:17feel like I don't know if this is better

1:03:19or if this is worse it has since turned

1:03:22out that this is the thing that YouTube

1:03:24has actually done since 2012 or so

1:03:27yeah and it was only that they sent out

1:03:30all of the notifications about the d

1:03:32monetized videos like a week ago right

1:03:36so some people just woke up to like hey

1:03:39a hundred of your videos rd monetized

1:03:41and turns out they've been d monetized

1:03:45for years but can we just never told you

1:03:48it's like YouTube as always a plus

1:03:54communication skills with your creators

1:03:57just like have a gold star

1:03:59this is amazing if you have some kind of

1:04:02policy make sure to keep it secret for

1:04:06years and then suddenly tell everybody

1:04:08all at once with notifications about how

1:04:10they're not getting money that is by far

1:04:13and away the best way to keep the

1:04:15situation calm and to keep a situation

1:04:18reasonable before we come onto the issue

1:04:21itself the thing about people not

1:04:23realize

1:04:23that was already going on I don't know

1:04:26what to take from that I don't know

1:04:27whether I should take from that some of

1:04:29these people are running so much money

1:04:31from so many videos that they could that

1:04:34some of the taps could be turned off and

1:04:36they don't know it didn't notice a poor

1:04:39up do we earn such paltry sums from

1:04:42everybody owes that one of them could be

1:04:44turned off and we don't realize the tab

1:04:45has been turned off

1:04:46I don't know what that says honestly I

1:04:48mean I feel like YouTube monetization is

1:04:50not particularly generous and if a bunch

1:04:54of mine were turned off i don't think i

1:04:56would realize i had a quick scan today I

1:04:59haven't gone through and had a look but

1:05:00apparently it's easier to find out if

1:05:02it's happened on our and as far as i can

1:05:04tell i haven't found any of mine yet

1:05:06that have been demagnetized I thought it

1:05:09might be possible because I've got a

1:05:10bunch of chemistry videos that deal with

1:05:12things like bombs and various chemicals

1:05:15and desire and gas and things like that

1:05:17because this demagnetization which will

1:05:19come to in a minute has been done

1:05:20algorithmically so I look I wonder if a

1:05:23whole bunch of my chemistry videos about

1:05:25uranium and atom bombs and you know

1:05:29terrorist attacks have they all been

1:05:30demagnetized I wouldn't be surprised if

1:05:32they had and I don't even know where my

1:05:35notification emails going so I don't

1:05:37know if it's happened to me or not how

1:05:38to happen to any of your videos i'm

1:05:40imagining you would notice because

1:05:41you're just better i mean the the thing

1:05:43is going along with what you're saying

1:05:45before like I would notice and it has

1:05:48happened to me if a video is not

1:05:50monetized on the day it goes up

1:05:53yes of course like right that's the

1:05:55thing because i have rare videos and

1:05:58because the the spikes contribute much

1:06:00more to like what is the annual take i

1:06:02would definitely notice and on the

1:06:04occasions where for unexplained reasons

1:06:07which I now wonder if in retrospect this

1:06:10was part of the dragnet these videos

1:06:12were caught up in but I have on occasion

1:06:14had videos just refuse to be monetized

1:06:18on youtube which is just like a bizarre

1:06:20thing like they go up everything is fine

1:06:21and then like no monetization for you

1:06:24for many hours and then it comes back up

1:06:26for some reason like who knows i don't

1:06:28know if that was the case but yes the

1:06:30YouTube ad rates are not great and it is

1:06:32definitely the case that even though i

1:06:35have a

1:06:36a ton of spreadsheets the track all of

1:06:38like my statistics on youtube I think

1:06:40it'd be very easy if a video from a

1:06:43couple years ago got to monetize that I

1:06:45would just never notice

1:06:46yeah because it's just like how much

1:06:48does it turn in a particular day like

1:06:50not very much at all it'd be so easy to

1:06:52never know so it is kind of funny when

1:06:54some channels didn't notice that they

1:06:57had hundreds of videos d monetized here

1:06:59you can understand how that would happen

1:07:02yeah if they got to monetize two days

1:07:05after they went live and yeah to

1:07:06monetize the media yeah yeah so the

1:07:09facts done algorithmically has been

1:07:11causing this problem and now people if

1:07:13it happened to them compress some appeal

1:07:14but apparently a human will look at and

1:07:16reem analyzer I don't have quickly that

1:07:19happens it probably depends how

1:07:20important you are and how noisy you are

1:07:21as far as i can tell it depends probably

1:07:23directly on have you uploaded a video

1:07:26complaining about YouTube on youtube

1:07:29that's probably how they prioritize that

1:07:31right and you have a big loud screaming

1:07:33video right now about your problem front

1:07:35of the queue think that's probably how

1:07:37they would do maybe the thing about this

1:07:40that is I think cause people to kind of

1:07:42freaked out about it is not just the

1:07:45question of the lost revenue but the the

1:07:47way this works is YouTube deciding what

1:07:52is and is not advertiser friendly and so

1:07:56they have a list of things some of which

1:07:58seem seem more or less reasonable than

1:08:01others but like looking down the list of

1:08:02like why would your video BD monetize

1:08:04and the reasons are sexually suggestive

1:08:07content violence

1:08:10ok fine promotion of drugs and related

1:08:13substances like okay maybe we're drug is

1:08:17a little bit unclear and different in

1:08:19very many places but like a sort of then

1:08:23you get down to inappropriate language

1:08:26including harassment it's like okay

1:08:30the word harassment is very hard to

1:08:31disagree with but like what precisely

1:08:33does that mean

1:08:34but then you get into the thing which

1:08:36starts feels like oh did my mom write

1:08:38this like including swearing and vulgar

1:08:41language oh ok you don't like curse

1:08:44words anymore youtube it's like this is

1:08:46not ok for advertisers advertisers are

1:08:48going to

1:08:49need to pull over the fainting couch

1:08:51because somebody said a bad word

1:08:53alright and then the one on the bottom

1:08:55which i think probably come everybody

1:08:57really angry was controversial or

1:08:59sensitive subjects and events including

1:09:02subjects related to war political

1:09:04conflicts natural disasters and

1:09:07tragedies even if graphic imagery is not

1:09:10shown these are the like the list of

1:09:12things that could get your video d

1:09:16monetized if you have them in your video

1:09:20hmm what do you think about that pretty

1:09:22well the first thing that surprised me

1:09:25about this i'm surprised this is not

1:09:27happening but maybe it is happening i'm

1:09:29surprised the right gradations of this

1:09:32i'm surprised youtube hasn't got like

1:09:34super lily white stuff that people can

1:09:37advertise on if they want to sell

1:09:39children's toys

1:09:40mhm and then if you're a brand that

1:09:42wants to advertise on something a bit

1:09:43edgy with a bit of swearing and stuff

1:09:45and a bit of politics then you can go

1:09:47into that category

1:09:48I'm surprised so black-and-white that

1:09:50this can be advertised on and this can't

1:09:53be

1:09:53I would have thought it would be a

1:09:54little bit more cherry picked and I

1:09:56wouldn't be surprised if we were being

1:09:58silent off you know if you want to

1:10:00advertise on something smart nerdy here

1:10:02all the education channels and if you

1:10:04want to advertise on something at the

1:10:06edgy and cool cuz you try to sell

1:10:07coca-cola or something that you can

1:10:09advertise on that and if you want to

1:10:10advertise on something that's really

1:10:12safe and but now then he is this

1:10:15category but it seems that YouTube have

1:10:16just said there's a yes and a no and

1:10:19that must make life really difficult for

1:10:22them i would imagine this to me is the

1:10:24most bizarre aspect of the whole thing

1:10:26like when i first came across this ad

1:10:29the height when everybody was absolutely

1:10:31furious about it

1:10:32my main thought was like okay I'm not

1:10:35one for censorship and conspiracy theory

1:10:39things but the way this is rolled out it

1:10:41as you said is like a black-and-white in

1:10:44or out like things can be advertised

1:10:47against or things cannot be advertised

1:10:49against

1:10:50it does kind of strike me as a tool to

1:10:54just punish people youtube doesn't like

1:10:57I mean these categories are pretty broad

1:11:01for a lot of channels like especially

1:11:04given like how plastic some of these

1:11:06words are and i agree on the fact that

1:11:08it's set up like that it makes me kind

1:11:10of suspicious because I would feel like

1:11:13a YouTube obviously you would want to

1:11:15maximize revenue from your ads why

1:11:18wouldn't you let advertisers choose what

1:11:21they want to advertise against and the

1:11:24first thing that popped into my mind is

1:11:26I don't know if it's still the case or

1:11:28if this is gone but youtube I know at

1:11:31least at one point had a special edition

1:11:33of YouTube which was just for schools so

1:11:36if you were a primary school and you

1:11:38wanted to your students to be able to

1:11:40have access to youtube but you didn't

1:11:41want them to be able to have access to

1:11:43all of YouTube YouTube had created a

1:11:46bunch of channels

1:11:47yeah that were approved for like primary

1:11:51school level and above and i know i was

1:11:54on this list because someone at YouTube

1:11:55at one point told me like I'm one of

1:11:57these channels that's unlike this school

1:11:59safe version of YouTube and they made

1:12:01some vague remarks like you know so

1:12:03don't do anything like really terrible

1:12:05some guy at YouTube tells me I'm on a

1:12:07list and to not do things that are

1:12:09really terrible i could get an official

1:12:10notification about this could i get some

1:12:12guidelines about what I should or should

1:12:14not do like now okay a guy like whispers

1:12:16to be on a street that there's a thing

1:12:17like okay whatever it's called

1:12:18whitelisting wasn't yeah it was like a

1:12:20white listing for schools

1:12:21yeah and that to me seems like if you

1:12:23want to have stuff for advertisers you

1:12:25already have some kind of base to start

1:12:27with presumably the same things that

1:12:29would be whitelisted for schools would

1:12:32be the safest of the safest things in

1:12:34the world to advertise against yeah and

1:12:37then have some gradations of of what it

1:12:41is but it feels to me almost like

1:12:42YouTube is begging for competitors to

1:12:45exist

1:12:45this feels like you're cutting off

1:12:48monetization from advertisers who might

1:12:52want to advertise against sexually

1:12:55suggestive content writer who might want

1:12:57to advertise against political conflicts

1:13:00like that surely there are companies out

1:13:02there that would want to give you money

1:13:04too

1:13:04advertise against those things let a

1:13:07little auction which is the part of your

1:13:09business like let a little auction sort

1:13:12that out and have one of the auction

1:13:14categories be like your channels that

1:13:16are whitelisted here's a bunch of

1:13:18channels that we haven't made any

1:13:20comments about like whatever and then

1:13:22here are comments that we have labeled

1:13:25as failing our standards of like

1:13:27language right but you can choose to

1:13:31advertise against ya channels where

1:13:33people curse if you want to i just i

1:13:35don't get it i don't get it i mean in

1:13:37some sympathy to you to show how their

1:13:39between a rock and a hard place you know

1:13:41what would happen they would start

1:13:42setting up all these quotations and then

1:13:45someone like philip defranco find out

1:13:46that he's in a category he doesn't want

1:13:48to be in and cocoa look at advertising

1:13:50against his videos and he'll upload a

1:13:52video again saying you know hashtag

1:13:54youtube sucks

1:13:55look what they've done that

1:13:57miscategorized me so people are still

1:13:59gonna winch people are still gonna win

1:14:01but I think like you don't have a right

1:14:03to have coca-cola advertise on your

1:14:05channel like coca-cola gets to make that

1:14:07decision about who they want to

1:14:08advertise again

1:14:10yeah but coca-cola might not be making a

1:14:11decision quite that fine-grained they're

1:14:13not going to be saying i want to

1:14:15advertise on cgpgrey but I don't want to

1:14:17advertise on numberphile they're just

1:14:19going to be saying i want to advertise

1:14:20in the category edgy or I want to

1:14:24advertise in the category child friendly

1:14:27or the end so it won't come down to them

1:14:29saying what channel they want it will

1:14:31come down to them saying what batch of

1:14:32channels they want and then people start

1:14:34complaining they're in the wrong batch

1:14:35and therefore not making enough money

1:14:37and whinging i agree with that people

1:14:40will always complain that they're not in

1:14:41the appropriate place someone will

1:14:44always complained that their channel is

1:14:46miscategorized but i still think that

1:14:47makes it a much better problem then the

1:14:51problem of like you can have

1:14:53advertisements against your videos you

1:14:55can't have advertisements against your

1:14:57video again for a company is as big and

1:14:59as complicated as YouTube it's like it's

1:15:01such a binary thing like you can't have

1:15:04more gradations of this and then as you

1:15:07mentioned before the thing that really

1:15:09doesn't help is it seems like it was

1:15:10just done entirely algorithmically and

1:15:15as best I can tell from talking to

1:15:16people this

1:15:17actually based on tags so I knew people

1:15:20who had pretty innocuous videos that

1:15:24ended up getting d monetized because

1:15:26their tags seems like things that would

1:15:29be related to like violence or

1:15:32controversy but the actual video itself

1:15:35is like man if this isn't okay then like

1:15:37nothing is okay what's like an example

1:15:39of that even like a hypothetical example

1:15:41you mean someone who maybe did something

1:15:43about the history of gun manufacturing

1:15:46or something and they had guns in their

1:15:47tag and therefore people thought it was

1:15:48a file this video that's exactly the

1:15:51kind of thing that can write like a you

1:15:53have a word related to it like gun and

1:15:56then I'd like this video is to monetize

1:15:57because obviously guns are related to

1:16:00violence like there's no other reason

1:16:01why you would tag a video with guns

1:16:03I can't believe it says courses that the

1:16:05algorithm because I've got videos that

1:16:07I've got things like guns in them and

1:16:08like I said all these chemistry videos

1:16:10involving all these words maybe I had

1:16:13been demagnetized haven't realized it

1:16:15yet but I just seems like i think there

1:16:17must be more to the algorithm that

1:16:18surely here's the thing

1:16:20probably but this is again with YouTube

1:16:24and their continued lack of

1:16:25communication

1:16:26who knows so while I was traveling

1:16:29recently I somehow ended up with my wife

1:16:33in a photo gallery and so in the course

1:16:36of the salesman talking to us he's

1:16:38pointing out there glass frames look at

1:16:42these glass frames he says they go

1:16:43edge-to-edge wouldn't you love to have a

1:16:46photograph behind this sheet of glass

1:16:48wouldn't you just love to have that in

1:16:50your house at the cost of mere thousands

1:16:53of dollars and in my head

1:16:56the only thing I could think of the

1:16:57whole time was dude there is no way

1:17:00you're selling me this ridiculously

1:17:03expensive shockingly heavy photograph

1:17:06when a company like fracture exists

1:17:10fracture me.com is the place that you

1:17:12should go to get your photos printed

1:17:14directly on to glass if you go on

1:17:18vacation if you take some beautiful

1:17:20vacation shots and you want them up in

1:17:22your house fractures the place to go

1:17:24it'll be printed on this edge to edge

1:17:27sheet of glass that arrives at your

1:17:29house

1:17:30laser-cut with a rigid backing so it's

1:17:33ready to display right out-of-the-box

1:17:34and as I discovered when I order

1:17:36fracture

1:17:37I'm thinking oh it's made of glass like

1:17:40this ridiculous thing in this artsy

1:17:41photo gallery it must weigh a ton

1:17:44now there's shockingly like they're

1:17:46really really shockingly light right in

1:17:49the box they include the wall anchor so

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1:19:00world you know what I hate homework

1:19:05oh yeah and when I look back up my

1:19:07sleeves go blue

1:19:09I think it is absolutely remarkable that

1:19:12I managed to get through school and

1:19:15graduate from high school doing a little

1:19:17homework as i did I padley ever remember

1:19:20doing homework I was the master of not

1:19:23doing homework and I don't know how i

1:19:25did it i obviously just figured out what

1:19:27was going to get checked and what was

1:19:28not an or the bare minimum was and I

1:19:30remember spending many a lunch break or

1:19:32recessed I'm hardly scribbling out some

1:19:35answers to math questions so that i

1:19:36wouldn't get in trouble

1:19:37I hate homework that's the way to go

1:19:41ready to lay a if you're a student and

1:19:43you do

1:19:43doing homework at home you're a sucker

1:19:45haven't figured out the system homework

1:19:49at home now homework is for the moment

1:19:51you can find in the school day I still

1:19:53today I know you don't like me talking

1:19:54about dreams but I still today have

1:19:57anxiety dreams where i'm walking into

1:19:59like a math classroom having not done

1:20:01homework but i have to have done and i

1:20:02know i'm about to get the pain but then

1:20:05a deep car comes over me because I

1:20:07realize I'm not at school anymore and

1:20:10like I have a job and I don't have to do

1:20:11homework and I walk into the classroom

1:20:13feeling almost invincible now knowing

1:20:15that if I get told off i'm just going to

1:20:16say well who cares

1:20:18I'm going back to my job is this all in

1:20:19the dream you time the teacher in the

1:20:21dream that you're actually a grown-up

1:20:22dreaming and you have a job is this is

1:20:24what your dreams yeah

1:20:25in the dream I've gone back to school

1:20:26but then have the car realization that

1:20:29it doesn't matter if I am unsuccessful

1:20:31get in trouble because i have this

1:20:33ultimate fallback of a career that i

1:20:35already have right because of the dream

1:20:38because it doesn't matter what's

1:20:39happening there

1:20:40I'm just saying that homework is like

1:20:41something i have such a dislike of the

1:20:45even now I still dream about it i'm

1:20:47sorry to hear that pretty but many

1:20:49people do because it's traumatic life

1:20:51sucking pointless exercise that said it

1:20:54brings us do today we had homework

1:20:56the crazy thing is this movie we had to

1:20:58watch for homework i had already watched

1:21:00but I felt like I needed to watch it

1:21:02again so it was fresh in my mind but I

1:21:04didn't have time to watch it so I was

1:21:06snatching 10 minutes here in 10 minutes

1:21:07they're doing my day watching out while

1:21:10things were rendering or uploading or I

1:21:12was feeding the dogs or quicker watch

1:21:13another 10 minutes and i managed to

1:21:15watch the whole thing off today but you

1:21:17know what i like you just did homework

1:21:19the way you used to do homework it's

1:21:22very minutes during the day who I've got

1:21:23seven minutes between social studies and

1:21:25math quick I've gotta watch the movie

1:21:27film history class

1:21:30nothing is James ready nothing is james

1:21:33how true that is

1:21:35did you do your homework I did my

1:21:37homework I had a slight nervous reaction

1:21:40like oh god I might be late with my

1:21:42homework and this time it'll actually

1:21:44matter because we're recording a podcast

1:21:45is not like in school where it doesn't

1:21:47matter because I foolishly didn't think

1:21:51about trying to buy and download it

1:21:54ahead of time and have it already so i

1:21:56did have

1:21:57very many panic moments trying to find a

1:21:59place to stream it over my internet

1:22:01connections that I could watch it

1:22:02because Apple was like hey wouldn't you

1:22:04like to download a 4 gigabyte version of

1:22:07this movie is like no apple i would not

1:22:08i just want to stream and I just want to

1:22:10watch it now i have exactly two hours to

1:22:13watch this hour and a half long movie

1:22:14before I need to be somewhere so luckily

1:22:17I got it done but I was also cutting my

1:22:19homework very very close as you say that

1:22:23before was this your first time I had

1:22:25watched it's just over a year ago this

1:22:29was a movie that i do have to say again

1:22:32to the audience much appreciated

1:22:33many many people recommended that i

1:22:35watch this movie and if you want to

1:22:38dramatically increase the chance that

1:22:41i'm actually going to watch a movie that

1:22:43you recommend the way to do it which

1:22:45everybody did for this one is just

1:22:46simply say you should really watch movie

1:22:51title that's all you need to say don't

1:22:53say anything else

1:22:55don't say even what it's about and in

1:22:58the aggregate I kind of pay attention to

1:23:01what are a lot of people saying what are

1:23:03a lot of people recommending and if it

1:23:05reaches a kind of threshold I will watch

1:23:07it and so this was one of those movies

1:23:09enough people recommended to me and I

1:23:12went into it essentially called knowing

1:23:15almost nothing about it

1:23:17are we having some kind of stand up here

1:23:19because neither of us wants to be the

1:23:20first try and pronounce ER x mark ii now

1:23:23I did look up like the director and

1:23:27actor being interviewed on youtube about

1:23:28it so I could hear how they pronounced

1:23:30it is that correct we get it right it

1:23:33was it was like that pretty much that's

1:23:35close enough

1:23:36fantastic it's not X machiner it's ex

1:23:38machina

1:23:39ok so it is then like Dave's X marking

1:23:41out like we were guessing they're

1:23:42perfect nailed it

1:23:43that's the film we've both seen it

1:23:45before quite a while ago we've both

1:23:47rewatched so it's fresh in your mind

1:23:48spoilers probably starting in the near

1:23:53future

1:23:54spoiler starting very soon if you

1:23:56haven't watched it and want to listen to

1:23:59us talk about it

1:24:00go watch the movie right now I know some

1:24:03of you listening to me right now won't

1:24:04do this you're just letting that play

1:24:06button Rulon and depriving yourself of

1:24:08the actual experience of watching a

1:24:10movie

1:24:10and then hearing a discussion about it

1:24:12so things make sense in the world i'm

1:24:14really trying to convince you not to do

1:24:16that but I know I know some of you will

1:24:18anyway and I don't understand you people

1:24:19careful great because you hurt the

1:24:21podcast by doing this the number of

1:24:23times i see messages from people saying

1:24:25our I stopped listening to your podcast

1:24:27episode 16 and I finally got around to

1:24:30watching that film that you told me I

1:24:31could watch so now i'm starting a

1:24:33podcast again from there and they have

1:24:35like that basically been on pause for 50

1:24:37episodes but that's not the way to do

1:24:39that okay if you're one of those

1:24:40listeners look at this is how you do

1:24:41this is very simple

1:24:42ok listen to your old buddy gray you

1:24:45pause the podcast which has the

1:24:48discussion of the thing that you're

1:24:49going to watch but you can listen to the

1:24:51next episode yeah you can keep going on

1:24:53and you keep this one on hold

1:24:55yeah we're not stupid we're not going to

1:24:56spoil the film in all subsequent

1:24:58episodes as well just started this

1:25:01doesn't become an ongoing topic of

1:25:03conversation although we have got form

1:25:05in that area so i can see why people

1:25:06would think we just wrapped on

1:25:08yeah so just pause this one and you can

1:25:11listen to the next one and when you

1:25:13watch the movie you come back to this

1:25:14one this is what I do with podcast i

1:25:16have a bunch that are in my queue

1:25:18waiting sometimes for very many months

1:25:21until I eventually see the thing that

1:25:22they're going to discuss and then I

1:25:24listen it's very simple you don't have

1:25:26to stop listen to the podcast but maybe

1:25:28stop listening to this one

1:25:29well with the film ex machina i'm going

1:25:32to be pretty dependent on you hear great

1:25:33because i have no notes

1:25:36Wow and the reason is every time

1:25:38something came up as a note or something

1:25:40I want to talk about something else

1:25:41would come up later on that made me

1:25:43cross it out

1:25:43ovm so we won't come to that later but i

1:25:47have surprisingly little to say about

1:25:48the film so maybe you should start

1:25:51proceedings you know how I'm going to

1:25:53insist you start and I know you don't

1:25:56want to do it but you know how I always

1:25:58want you to start when we talk about

1:25:59movies are why it's essential gray it is

1:26:04not essential that i lay out my opinion

1:26:06first now now because it covers

1:26:07everything because otherwise I feel like

1:26:09you're trying to play tricks we need to

1:26:12do the inverted pyramid of journalism

1:26:14the most important thing first and then

1:26:16everything flows from that the inverted

1:26:18pyramid here you know the inverted

1:26:21pyramid in journalism now I this means

1:26:23nothing to me

1:26:23newspaper journalism you always put the

1:26:26most important facts at the top and the

1:26:28importance effects descends as you go

1:26:31down the story like an inverted pyramid

1:26:33to the most trivial and unimportant

1:26:34effects out the bottom and you may think

1:26:37this is purely because out of respect

1:26:39for the Raiders who are in a hurry and

1:26:41they need information quickly and it is

1:26:43partly that but the main reason is from

1:26:45the times of old school newspapers when

1:26:48things would just be cut to fit into

1:26:50slots in a newspaper so you have to

1:26:52always think if my story gets cut from

1:26:54the bottom i have to make sure the

1:26:56things that get cut matter the least are

1:26:59actually quite interesting i didn't know

1:27:01that if your story was just too long

1:27:02like whatever we're going to take out

1:27:04the bottom two paragraphs yeah like if

1:27:05they're in a hurry or something another

1:27:07story broken they need to cut yours in a

1:27:09hurry to 72 we just cut sometimes almost

1:27:11arbitrarily so if you were being cgpgrey

1:27:14and trying to say if the film was good

1:27:16and bad in your final triumph and

1:27:17sentence that sentence could be gone

1:27:20altogether how journalism sounds like a

1:27:22great job this is not an Agatha Christie

1:27:25great i don't want to find out in the

1:27:27final twisting sentence whether or not

1:27:29you like the film i want to know if

1:27:30you'd like the film or not and then I

1:27:32want to hear why and it doesn't mean you

1:27:34can't criticize or praise after that if

1:27:36I have no idea what you think of the

1:27:38film

1:27:38I can't do it right I will as usual cave

1:27:43to your Brady demands like I always do

1:27:46thank you ok so the reason why before

1:27:49this episode I particularly press people

1:27:53to watch this movie just cold like just

1:27:56watch it without knowing anything about

1:27:58it because I think this is really an

1:28:02example of a movie that benefits a lot

1:28:06from knowing very little about it

1:28:09because in some ways this is a movie

1:28:13we're not a whole lot happens that gets

1:28:16an hour and a half long and the number

1:28:19of events that actually occurs is quite

1:28:23small

1:28:24I feel like what this movie is doing is

1:28:26just slowly revealing little pieces of

1:28:31information to you in seems there's

1:28:34almost something about it to me which

1:28:35feels like a stew

1:28:36ageplay was like here is a scene here is

1:28:40another little scene like and here's the

1:28:42information that's conveyed in this

1:28:43moment and then we're going to go on to

1:28:44the next one and if you know the premise

1:28:47of the movie ahead of time is like there

1:28:49is very little that's kind of

1:28:52interesting here the first time you

1:28:53watch it you feel like you're just

1:28:54waiting for a thing to happen which

1:28:56really only happens in the final few

1:28:58moments of the movie so i just think

1:29:01this is a great example of like don't

1:29:02know about the movie just watch it and i

1:29:06really like this movie but i think a

1:29:10huge portion of that is having watched

1:29:13it for the first time without knowing

1:29:16about it i think if i had really known

1:29:19even two or three facts about the movie

1:29:22i think it was just totally have changed

1:29:24the first experience of watching it and

1:29:26made it like almost boring because of

1:29:28the lack of things that are occurring

1:29:29you know what it's really funny that you

1:29:32say that because i liked it much more

1:29:35the second time watching it when i do

1:29:38the story of what was happening I liked

1:29:40it the first time

1:29:41mm but i liked it much more the second

1:29:43time now I'm not saying that I didn't

1:29:45like it the second time there's a bunch

1:29:47of stuff that I I really tuned into the

1:29:50second time around that I didn't tune

1:29:52into the first time what i am saying is

1:29:54like if I'd known about it in more

1:29:56detail the first time the experience of

1:29:59the movie would have been just like

1:30:00changed and different and I feel like I

1:30:02couldn't be like oh this is a really

1:30:03good movie like i like this movie a lot

1:30:05because the first time you see something

1:30:08I feel like you carry that experience

1:30:11with you

1:30:12yeah in subsequent viewings if errno

1:30:14it's like watching star wars if you know

1:30:16anything about Star Wars and you just

1:30:17watch it like you're amazed at things

1:30:19and you have a great time and you carry

1:30:22that feeling forward in future viewings

1:30:26and i think at least I find that's the

1:30:27case with any movie if you're surprised

1:30:30the first time you watch it you feel it

1:30:31other times even with something that the

1:30:33usual suspects and films like that where

1:30:35you can enjoy them multiple times for

1:30:37the same reason

1:30:38yeah that's a good example and it's the

1:30:40same thing of like i watch the usual

1:30:42suspects without knowing anything about

1:30:43it and in particular seems even on

1:30:46subsequent viewings I feel like a

1:30:48glimmer of

1:30:49I felt the first time yeah as if you

1:30:50knew about it ahead of time

1:30:52yeah that wouldn't happen ok so it gets

1:30:55the thumbs-up from you yeah definitely

1:30:56get the thumbs-up from me

1:30:58what about You Brady gets a big thumbs

1:30:59up from 80 but I I knew you'd give it a

1:31:03thumbs up and it just makes me mad at

1:31:06you about the whole thing but we'll come

1:31:08to that later

1:31:08why does it make you mad about her

1:31:10alright I'll do with this now and then

1:31:11we can get to the business of the film

1:31:13itself right

1:31:14ok ok don't get me wrong i understand

1:31:17that ex machina is a different film to

1:31:21her and it deals with different issues

1:31:24and things like that right but you would

1:31:26put them in the same genre they are both

1:31:29artificial intelligence they are both

1:31:31about a relationship between a man and a

1:31:34female I i finally enough as well

1:31:36hmm they have similarities they also

1:31:38have differences i think both films are

1:31:41very good i would say i think both films

1:31:43are probably equally good i would say i

1:31:46would if i was marking them out of 10

1:31:47i'd give them pretty much the same mark

1:31:49i know that you don't like her

1:31:52nope but you do like this film and the

1:31:54reason that makes me mad and you deny

1:31:56this but I refused to accept it and that

1:31:59is ex machina is so much more your style

1:32:05then her I knew you would be bamboozled

1:32:10and dazzled by X make it as style the

1:32:16house he lives in is your perfect house

1:32:18and like it's the pits your perfect

1:32:21house is sparsely furnished but it's

1:32:22also got some natural rock in it and

1:32:25it's got like nice use of nature but

1:32:27it's like it's so you and everything

1:32:29about the film is so stylistically you

1:32:31it's so your senses and her on the other

1:32:35hand it's got this kind of seventies HIV

1:32:38viral edition look to it and it's kind

1:32:40of a bit dated and tweet and also X make

1:32:43it has like so little human interaction

1:32:45there are hardly any actors in it and

1:32:47it's so clean and sterile and yet her

1:32:50you know he goes to the beach and get

1:32:52sand on his fate and he has to move

1:32:55amongst crowds of people and it's all

1:32:57the things gray would like

1:32:59and I think both films while being

1:33:01different and having different stories

1:33:02to tell have a lot of similar things

1:33:04about them and a similar thrust and I

1:33:08think one of them was dressed up in gray

1:33:11clothing one of them was dressed up in

1:33:13Brady clothing and that has influenced

1:33:15your review

1:33:16ok ok I've got that off my chest

1:33:20you can deny it now but I refuse to

1:33:22believe it ok I feel the need to read to

1:33:26you word-for-word the first note that i

1:33:29wrote about the movie

1:33:30ok holy do I want that house no words

1:33:35stone glass wood metal map

1:33:39yeah it was like your dream house and I

1:33:45know you said her was well done me and

1:33:47you respected that but i think the style

1:33:50of her versus the style of ex machina is

1:33:53what's wage and if you could have seen

1:33:55through that I think he would do you

1:33:58have to say both films are good

1:33:59anyway I've got that off my chest

1:34:03I'm glad you got that off your chest

1:34:04it's funny because I never thought of

1:34:06her once in either viewing it's just

1:34:10never even crossed my mind as an even

1:34:12vaguely related film I guess you're

1:34:15right i guess it is about to male

1:34:17characters relationships with a female

1:34:20AI like never cross my mind that there

1:34:22was any kind of similarity there and the

1:34:24III turning and you know how God gray

1:34:27the planet do you live on

1:34:29anyway let's talk about this film I know

1:34:33I'm never going to change your mind

1:34:34about her

1:34:35let's talk about this film which we both

1:34:36seem to think was good first of all that

1:34:40house write amazing you have even you

1:34:43have to admit that's an amazing house

1:34:45floor

1:34:4530-10 it was an amazing house it would

1:34:48not be a nice place to live long term

1:34:50for may be amazing

1:34:54it's a bit soulless it like a trihard

1:34:56you know New York hotel or something

1:34:59solace or the apex of gorgeous i'm gonna

1:35:02go with the apex of gorgeous i have to

1:35:04admit second viewing many of those

1:35:06scenes with those two guys are talking

1:35:07i'm just looking at the house like wow

1:35:09look at those beautiful glass windows

1:35:11look at that amazing view

1:35:12look at this stone in the main room of

1:35:15this guy's hair fan I knew you'd like

1:35:17that stone in the room love it

1:35:19absolutely love it

1:35:20cool house yeah very cool house I would

1:35:22love to go and spend like a few weeks

1:35:24they're on holiday and go walking up

1:35:26around the rivers there and stuff and

1:35:27all that but it doesn't have a lot of

1:35:29the soul of the people who owner you

1:35:31know it's got beer got companies

1:35:33paintings and sculptures i guess but

1:35:35it's a cool place great don't get me

1:35:38wrong if i lived in that house that

1:35:39would be my soul embodied in the house

1:35:41it's super cool you know what

1:35:43look great when I was a kid that would

1:35:44have been my dream house mm just like

1:35:46when I was a kid you know my dream car

1:35:48is like you know KITT from Knight Rider

1:35:50it and I feel like a lot of people grow

1:35:52out of that kind of ultra modern

1:35:55futuristic thing and I feel like you

1:35:57never will but senior entirely wrong i

1:36:00feel like i have grown into that as I

1:36:02have as I her older right I'm not sure I

1:36:04ever cared but this is a style that the

1:36:07more i have ever noticed as i have

1:36:09gotten older the more it's like yes this

1:36:11is exactly what I want this is what I

1:36:13will inspire towards for the rest of my

1:36:15life is to have a house like that it is

1:36:17awesome

1:36:18okay we've discussed the house i have

1:36:20gotten that out of my system we don't

1:36:22continue to talk about it but it was

1:36:24just like man bullet point number one

1:36:25for people who haven't seen the film

1:36:27maybe we should explain explain the

1:36:31story and the house i'm not gonna

1:36:32explain too much i just want people to

1:36:34have the very rough set and the film

1:36:36starts with some kind of programming

1:36:38nerd getting a message to say that he's

1:36:40won some lottery from his boss he works

1:36:43for the future equivalent of google

1:36:45speak search engine company that's owned

1:36:47by this insane the rich

1:36:49multi-billionaire yeah and the prize

1:36:51he's one is that he's going to get to

1:36:53spend awake with the owner of the

1:36:56business he thinks it's just like a perk

1:36:59that he has somehow won this is all

1:37:00dealt with very quickly

1:37:02he's helicopters off to this incredible

1:37:04estate in this incredible piece of

1:37:06nature with glaciers and mountains and

1:37:08rivers and forests and he's taken to the

1:37:10house of this billionaire who is a

1:37:13pretty cool guy who lives in this

1:37:16incredible housesitting sort of almost

1:37:18in the sort of side of a river on this

1:37:20estate and it's the schoolhouse the

1:37:21great talked about

1:37:22he gets there he doesn't know what to

1:37:24expect the boss kind of lives there

1:37:26alone as far as he can tell he's kind of

1:37:28a recluse but very technological and at

1:37:33this point it is revealed to him that

1:37:34what he's going to do is he's going to

1:37:37apply a tutoring test to this robot

1:37:41artificial intelligence that the

1:37:43billionaire has made he's introduced to

1:37:46this robot and he's just told to sit

1:37:49with it on the other side of a glass

1:37:50screen the robot is sort of glasses off

1:37:52which gives us some feeling that maybe

1:37:55it has to be glass door for a reason and

1:37:57he's told apply to just to just spend

1:37:59time with that and see what you think

1:38:01that's the setup that's how the film

1:38:04starts basically so the structure of the

1:38:06film is he spends time with this robot

1:38:08talk chatting to it as a little set pace

1:38:10and then usually this is intercut with

1:38:13him interacting with the billionaire

1:38:15building saying what do you think how

1:38:16did it go

1:38:17and the story unfolds through these two

1:38:20threads this characters interaction with

1:38:22the robot and these interactions with

1:38:25the billionaire owner and creator of the

1:38:27robot of the AI is this structure that

1:38:30to me makes the movie feel most play

1:38:32like that they'd it's yes so formulaic

1:38:35it's like six swapping back and forth

1:38:37between Caleb the main character talking

1:38:40to Ava the robot and then Kaleb talking

1:38:44to nathan the billionaire and then they

1:38:46go back get back again and it's things

1:38:49literally just six swapping 'he's and

1:38:51then the end of the movie is the way

1:38:53that works now the very first thing you

1:38:55say there that already at the sort of

1:38:57caught my attention was would you

1:39:00describe Nathan the billionaire as a

1:39:03cool guy like you said he's he comes off

1:39:05as a very cool guy do you think that's

1:39:07the way he is a character

1:39:08yes yes I would he's got a cool house

1:39:12he's rich he's fit he's always working

1:39:16out he's muscular outside he's a

1:39:18good-looking guy who I think he's

1:39:21someone who you would categorize as cool

1:39:24as opposed to our main character who's

1:39:26kind of skinny and a bit a little bit

1:39:29less confident quite smart but the two

1:39:32juxtaposed with each other

1:39:34hmm you know I feel like

1:39:36nathan is very alpha of course he's a

1:39:38billionaire he's the boss but you know

1:39:40he's cool and he drinks and he says come

1:39:43on let's not be formal let's just be

1:39:44mates

1:39:45he's like the guys guys in a to use a

1:39:47cliché

1:39:48ok so this is kind of a note that i had

1:39:50at the end but i think it was going to

1:39:51pull it towards the beginning because i

1:39:53feel like it sums up the movie to me and

1:39:55I was so much more aware of it on the

1:39:58second viewing I think the reason i like

1:40:01this movie is obviously the topic

1:40:04appeals to me and of course the setting

1:40:06appeals to me but I really think it's

1:40:08three fantastic performances by three

1:40:13actors that are all kind of focused

1:40:16around this idea of like I don't have a

1:40:19better word for it but kind of like

1:40:21awkwardness and i have so aware in the

1:40:25very first scene like the meeting

1:40:26between Caleb the employee and Nathan

1:40:29the billionaire like right away it feels

1:40:31like there's a clanging of their

1:40:33personalities like they don't get along

1:40:35and I feel like Nathan makes all of the

1:40:38gestures of like you said being like a

1:40:40kind of alpha but also cool friendly guy

1:40:44but my reading in the performance is

1:40:47like all of them fall kind of flat and

1:40:51so I feel like he has a kind of

1:40:53awkwardness that because of his bearing

1:40:56and his position and his confidence

1:40:59actually comes off as kind of

1:41:01threatening whereas Caleb his oil in

1:41:04this movie I feel like his awkwardness

1:41:06is like he's kind of a loser you know

1:41:10he's like not a great guy and then I

1:41:15think Ava the robot like the awkwardness

1:41:17there is alternate between alien and

1:41:20innocent but I feel like every scene in

1:41:23the movie is two characters having a

1:41:25conversation with each other and they're

1:41:28always interacting in this awkward or

1:41:31stilted manner like nothing ever goes

1:41:34really smoothly in any of the

1:41:36conversations for the entire movie like

1:41:39I think that that's the way it kind of

1:41:40plays out in every scene for me

1:41:43mm okay

1:41:44do disagree yeah I disagree about Nathan

1:41:48I think like there is a menace to him

1:41:50definitely he should be unpredictable

1:41:51and you never know where he's coming

1:41:53from and he there's a temper to him

1:41:55which is shown early to us when he gets

1:41:56angry is a system we're always supposed

1:41:59to find him a little bit unpredictable

1:42:01and we never know if he's a good guy or

1:42:03a bad guy and that's also set up by the

1:42:05conversations that happen behind his

1:42:06back where I ever is constantly telling

1:42:08Caleb you know he's a bad man

1:42:11so there is like an unpredictable

1:42:13edginess to Nathan I never feel like

1:42:15he's awkward i always feel like he's in

1:42:18control and we're supposed to think that

1:42:20is kind of getting the better of him

1:42:22play is he losing control and then he

1:42:25sort of towards the end of the film we

1:42:26realized actually no he's been in

1:42:28control more than we realize all along I

1:42:30mean obviously he comes and Stitch to

1:42:32and then he loses the battle but I feel

1:42:35like until that point until he's gotten

1:42:37the better off i feel like he's the

1:42:40Alpha I don't feel like he's awkward I

1:42:41feel like he's just in control of

1:42:43everything he's playing Caleb he's

1:42:45trying to play a ver which is getting

1:42:48harder and harder because of the nature

1:42:49of her but I never felt like he was an

1:42:51awkward guy I felt like he was quite

1:42:53relatable i do a great all the

1:42:54performances a great

1:42:55there's just the right level of

1:42:56awkwardness of everyone so very real and

1:43:00believable

1:43:01I guess what I mean is the awkwardness

1:43:03applies I think better to Caleb and ava

1:43:06has a word for some of their

1:43:07interactions but even with me and when

1:43:09you're watching it

1:43:11there are several scenes where at least

1:43:14ostensibly he's trying to get caleb to

1:43:17relax but the reason why to like relaxes

1:43:21every one of his like buddy-buddy hey

1:43:25don't worry about the situation remarks

1:43:27like every single one of them kind of

1:43:29makes it worse

1:43:30yeah like nothing he does actually ever

1:43:32puts Caleb addys no it's because he's so

1:43:36impatient though that's the thing that

1:43:37comes to me about Nathan like he's so

1:43:39impatient he feels so far above Caleb

1:43:43that he knows he has to like be friends

1:43:45with him to make things work and library

1:43:48what he's trying to do but he doesn't

1:43:49want to be his mate he doesn't wanna be

1:43:51around this time with him and he keeps

1:43:53falling out of that like his impatience

1:43:55to get thinking

1:43:56I don't wanna talk about that i want to

1:43:57talk about this rights rights his

1:43:59impatience shines through more than

1:44:00awkwardness he struggles to be that mr.

1:44:02nice guy with Kayla because he just he

1:44:05feels so above him and wants to crack on

1:44:06and that that is obvious or even just in

1:44:09a lot of things like can we just be two

1:44:10guys having a beer and again because I

1:44:13think they're both acting very well in

1:44:14almost every single one of those scenes

1:44:16you can't help but notice like caleb is

1:44:18always nursing his beers like he clearly

1:44:20doesn't actually want to drink all that

1:44:21much where Nathan obviously does but

1:44:24again to me it strikes as a kind of like

1:44:26Nathan's idea of the two of them

1:44:28relaxing together it does not put caleb

1:44:31is like everything he does in every

1:44:33staring and in every situation just

1:44:35makes it worse right is like I know

1:44:36you're having a moment here but let's

1:44:38just forget the fact that you're my

1:44:40employee and I'm your employer and let's

1:44:42just be here it's like no dude if you're

1:44:44trying to actually put someone at ease

1:44:46you don't highlight the disparity again

1:44:48I think that's just so much of his

1:44:50character that's why i use the work

1:44:52threatening is the word of like I just

1:44:54feel like a lot of his interactions come

1:44:57off and in that kind of way like relax

1:45:00and just remember that i own you relax

1:45:03and remember that were in this place all

1:45:05on our own right just chill out what

1:45:06he's supposed to be the villain of the

1:45:08film isn't he like until well he is the

1:45:11villain of the film but he's always

1:45:13supposed to be that character we're

1:45:14supposed to like Caleb he's our hero

1:45:17isn't he he's Alex Skywalker he's the

1:45:19innocent guy he's us the worst hero ever

1:45:23yeah yeah okay but that's what he is

1:45:25he's a relatable one because we're not

1:45:26going to relate to a robot or a

1:45:28billionaire so he's a relatable one and

1:45:31there is a kind of a love story going on

1:45:32here whether you admit it or not there

1:45:34is a will they or won't they

1:45:35funnily enough part of a love story is

1:45:38does she love him at all but the robot

1:45:40is very likeable she's trapped she's a

1:45:42prisoner

1:45:43she's beautiful and has these big doe

1:45:46eyes and looks like this poor trap to go

1:45:49and you know she's obviously doing that

1:45:51on purpose so there's no one to dislike

1:45:53other than Nathan so he is supposed to

1:45:55be the villain of the film so that

1:45:57Menace about him is good is clever

1:46:00oh yeah it's well done it's really well

1:46:02done there's a few things that this

1:46:03movie doesn't do that i like and one of

1:46:07them is

1:46:08I really love the character of Nathan

1:46:11because they didn't do the standard

1:46:14we're going to have an obviously

1:46:17semi-auto pistol person who is the head

1:46:20of this billion-dollar software company

1:46:23like that's not his character at all it

1:46:25feels like they went in just totally the

1:46:27opposite direction in every way they

1:46:30could when you think about like what is

1:46:32the stereotype of someone who runs a

1:46:35gigantic technology company probably

1:46:38doesn't work out all the time like I

1:46:40absolutely love the fact like so many

1:46:42scenes where they show Nathan he's

1:46:44working out like he's clearly very

1:46:46physically fit and love they don't have

1:46:49like the standard CEO and I think he's a

1:46:51great character that is not that

1:46:54character i agree he's great character

1:46:56great i don't think that it's true that

1:46:58I think in modern media these days it's

1:47:00more of a trope to have your tech

1:47:02billionaire be kind of cool and wear

1:47:04jeans and be like more hip I don't think

1:47:07they're breaking the mold by making the

1:47:08tech billionaire a cool guy i think

1:47:11there are lots of TV shows and things

1:47:12now where the tech billionaire is cougar

1:47:15I cannot agree with the assessment of

1:47:18him as cool guy

1:47:19if I find that very interesting that you

1:47:21keep going back to that is like my take

1:47:23on that character like nothing about him

1:47:25reads is cool to me like I will agree

1:47:28like he reads a guy who's in control of

1:47:30the situation

1:47:31he's on top of stuff he's very confident

1:47:33but there's a different thing which is

1:47:35like coolness which he definitely

1:47:37doesn't have at least to me anyway when

1:47:41I see a man screen we ever see see him

1:47:43differently obviously he's deeply flawed

1:47:45rights and our and the whole film i

1:47:47spend thinking he's doing a lot of

1:47:50unlikable things i'm not saying i like i

1:47:52like him within keeps the hero who but i

1:47:54think from the start is just like yeah

1:47:57man he's cool looking man he's just like

1:47:59any schoolhouse cracking open a beer

1:48:01he's not affected by his fortune I feel

1:48:05like he's comfortable in his own skin

1:48:06except that he's got this DB guy that

1:48:08he's having to hang out with

1:48:09he's way too cool for that had to

1:48:11accommodate that I can agree with again

1:48:15the thing I find remarkable about this

1:48:16and I think about this movie like

1:48:17they're these three great performances

1:48:19and we'll get to even a moment but i

1:48:21also find is

1:48:22it's a movie with at least from my

1:48:24perspective

1:48:25no one to root for like you're not

1:48:28rooting for Nathan I at least not

1:48:30rooting for Ava and I also find I guess

1:48:35caleb is supposed to be the protagonist

1:48:36but I really just find his awkward loser

1:48:41eNOS so repulsive that I have a hard

1:48:43time feeling like this is our guy like

1:48:47this is the main character we're

1:48:48supposed to be going along with so it's

1:48:50like I can't even really root for Caleb

1:48:53either and particularly for reasons

1:48:55we'll get to at the end it's just like

1:48:57it feels like you're a sucker right from

1:49:01the start

1:49:02that's the way it feels to meet with

1:49:03Caleb I don't know I think maybe you're

1:49:05showing your lack of sloppiness there

1:49:07because I think like if you don't think

1:49:11about the twists that are coming in a

1:49:12few of things that are going on there is

1:49:14like a base level thing with the love

1:49:17story between Kailyn over like you know

1:49:21because he falls for her doesn't he

1:49:23and you hope that she's fallen for him

1:49:25and what will happen will he save her

1:49:27will they ever have a kiss to put it

1:49:29simply ok there was that going on like

1:49:31this is this little love story and can

1:49:33the night save her from her tower from

1:49:35the big bad captor and when it will be

1:49:38saying who do i wrote for that's how

1:49:39you're right for you rooting for the

1:49:40couple you're rooting for him to break

1:49:42out of prison and have a kiss on the

1:49:44horse and ride off into the sunset

1:49:46okay well then we have to get to this

1:49:48right away because this to me gets to

1:49:50another one of the things I think is

1:49:51like the core interestingness of talking

1:49:54about this movie with other people so

1:49:57let's discuss Ava Ava the character who

1:50:00has been created by Nathan she is a

1:50:05robot she has some level of artificial

1:50:08intelligence she can carry on

1:50:10conversations and again another

1:50:13fantastic performance by the actress and

1:50:17everything about just like the physical

1:50:20design of this character i think is

1:50:22amazing the way she moves the actress

1:50:26does a fantastic job of having her move

1:50:29in a very deliberate way but again not

1:50:32not in a stereotypical like I am a row

1:50:35but i am moving so awkwardly like she

1:50:37just moved strangely the actors really

1:50:39pulls that off

1:50:40she's very able assisted by the sound

1:50:42design that goes with her movements

1:50:44oh my god i don't know who did the sound

1:50:48design for this movie but somebody

1:50:50should have won an award for the sound

1:50:53effects every time she moves

1:50:55it's amazing i've never liked tuned into

1:50:58with sound effects so much that also

1:51:00feels like it just add so much i kept

1:51:03thinking like what is that sound it's a

1:51:05kind of jingle e10 silly kind of sound I

1:51:10can't put my finger on it but it's

1:51:12amazing sound design every time she

1:51:15moves and one of the things i did I i'm

1:51:17pretty sure i had got it on the record

1:51:19with her that I do always appreciate

1:51:21movies where people are paying attention

1:51:24to the details and i love the the sound

1:51:27design with her like just a nice little

1:51:29detail is so the character normally is a

1:51:32robot who only has like a human face and

1:51:35human hands and the rest of her is this

1:51:37kind of translucent to you future ii

1:51:40robotic looking thing but there are

1:51:43several scenes where she is wearing

1:51:44clothes and i love that the sound design

1:51:47team bothered to really mute the sound

1:51:50effects of her moving whenever she was

1:51:51wearing clothes

1:51:52it's such a small detail but in a lazier

1:51:54movie they wouldn't really bothered like

1:51:57it's just even this is a it's just a

1:51:59fantastic little detail somebody really

1:52:01cared is really sells her presence on

1:52:04screen like these sounds and the

1:52:07actresses movements and her strange

1:52:11sometimes interrupting sometimes way to

1:52:14direct way of speaking yeah like you

1:52:16said the setup here is that Caleb and

1:52:19Ava are having a series of conversations

1:52:22that escalate over the course of the

1:52:27movie again the beginning it's just

1:52:29simply a get-to-know-you conversation

1:52:31like look here is a robot what do you

1:52:33think about this robot and caleb is

1:52:35talking to her very much as though he's

1:52:38interrogating a super smart machine he

1:52:42tries to ask her a couple questions like

1:52:44started to trick her a little bit like

1:52:46artists probe the edges

1:52:47of how good is this machine and talking

1:52:50to me but very quickly by session to Ava

1:52:55starts asking questions like is your

1:52:58status single she wants to know does he

1:53:00have anybody else in his life well she's

1:53:04flirting with him

1:53:05ok she flirts with him very early on she

1:53:07like you know

1:53:08ok this to me is the heart of it and i

1:53:11think this is why i have a hard time

1:53:12sympathizing with Caleb because as soon

1:53:14as I'm watching this movie even the

1:53:16first time what I think this movie is

1:53:19deliberately trying to do and what it

1:53:22does very well is to trick the audience

1:53:27in the same way that caleb is being

1:53:30tricked into really feeling and

1:53:34sympathizing with this artificial

1:53:37intelligence as though it is a woman

1:53:41like a real woman on the other side of

1:53:44this piece of glass I feel like

1:53:45everything about the movie leans on you

1:53:49to think of Ava as a woman but my

1:53:52experience watching it and what I feel

1:53:54like the real way to watch it is to

1:53:57constantly in every scene

1:53:59don't fall for the trick that the movie

1:54:02is pulling like you have to keep

1:54:03reminding yourself it's not a she it's

1:54:07in it like it's acting like a woman but

1:54:10it's not actually there's something else

1:54:14that's occurring here right you're being

1:54:15unfair

1:54:16you're being unfair on the movie there

1:54:17and you talk about me writing down notes

1:54:19and crossing them out i did early in the

1:54:21movie write down a note along the lines

1:54:23of you know the robot being such a

1:54:24good-looking woman who but very early in

1:54:28the film in fact in the next scene which

1:54:30forced me to cross and out and the movie

1:54:32lasers cards on the table when Caleb and

1:54:34Nathan have the discussion and Caleb

1:54:36says did you make her a woman on purpose

1:54:39why did you make her so sexual and they

1:54:41look about the flirting early on so it's

1:54:43not like we're being suckered this is

1:54:44being put on the table and Caleb

1:54:47realizes this he realizes that he's

1:54:49being flirted with and tricked by

1:54:51something that is very beautiful

1:54:53the film doesn't hide there and it's

1:54:54very open and the fact that it still

1:54:56keeps happening

1:54:57shows the power of human frailty and

1:55:01sexuality probably in a lot of ways and

1:55:03the fact that we as viewers will not you

1:55:06but most viewers despite the fact we've

1:55:09been told this is a robot you've made

1:55:12her sexual on purpose and Nathan's

1:55:15really open about it you know if you're

1:55:16going to make an ir you have to make it

1:55:18like a sexual thing because that's how

1:55:20humans work and stuff this stuff is put

1:55:22on the table right at the start and yet

1:55:24still Caleb and yet still most viewers

1:55:26just get swept off her feet by the the

1:55:29prettiness and the charm and the

1:55:31cleverness of the AI already like that

1:55:33but it's certainly not held back we're

1:55:36not being tricked as viewers and even

1:55:39Caleb's not being tricked he knows

1:55:41what's going on but he can't help but I

1:55:43what I mean by being tricked is I mean

1:55:45thinking that the thing on the other end

1:55:49has human motivations and human

1:55:54experiences is one of the things in a

1:55:56movie when the movie's working there's a

1:55:58lot of stuff that you like let go when

1:55:59you're like you're along for the ride

1:56:00and that whole conversation but like why

1:56:03did you make her like a woman i think in

1:56:05a lesser movie like this is a ridiculous

1:56:06conversation but i totally buy it for

1:56:08the premise of this movie where nathan

1:56:10has this line about like why would a

1:56:12gray box want to interact with another

1:56:14great box like I have to give it a

1:56:15reason and I feel like I can kind of by

1:56:18this in the context of he's been trying

1:56:19to develop a eyes maybe a is just go all

1:56:22internal if they have no reason to

1:56:24interact with the world like this is a

1:56:26thing that he's done like he's

1:56:27intentionally made it a female creature

1:56:31that is heterosexual like this is a

1:56:33thing that he was done

1:56:35that's very different from feeling like

1:56:39it's a human

1:56:40there are lots of creatures in the world

1:56:42that are heterosexual that are not

1:56:45humans and so when i'm watching this

1:56:47movie because again because i'm a person

1:56:50my instinct is if I let go for a second

1:56:54i'm thinking like that poor girl on the

1:56:56other side of the glass like this is a

1:56:57terrible situation but i find myself

1:57:00watching the movie the first time and

1:57:03this time as well as like trying to

1:57:04think about like yeah but imagine it's

1:57:06like a crab in there like it's a

1:57:09super-intelligent crab

1:57:11it's a creature it has thoughts but

1:57:14you're wildly ms judging it if you're

1:57:17thinking of it as a human person like it

1:57:21can still be a thing that has emotions

1:57:25and that has feelings that has thoughts

1:57:26but like you Caleb are being a total

1:57:30sucker

1:57:31if you're thinking of it like it's a

1:57:33woman like it's totally wrong to think

1:57:35of it that way I guess that's why I like

1:57:37I find the Caleb character kind of

1:57:39repulsive because i feel like in every

1:57:41scene if you like dude you should know

1:57:44better than this but like the very fact

1:57:48that you're letting yourself get

1:57:49flustered when the machine is flirting

1:57:52with you like you doing it all wrong

1:57:54you're putting all of us in jeopardy you

1:57:55idiot by not constantly realigning your

1:57:59mind about like what this thing is it's

1:58:02not a woman it looks like a woman and

1:58:06there's like two very very different

1:58:08things

1:58:09I mean that's the setup of the film is

1:58:10the setup of her as well

1:58:12can a human fall in love with an

1:58:13artificial intelligence to spot knowing

1:58:15it's an artificial intelligence in both

1:58:17films the answer ends up being yes

1:58:19oh yeah of course because humans can

1:58:21fall in love with all kinds of things

1:58:23humans are creatures that are looking

1:58:25for emotional connections and they'll

1:58:27try to get them wherever they can

1:58:29when they're sad lonely single monkeys

1:58:32like obviously we know that humans are

1:58:34frail yeah the question of like does she

1:58:36fall in love with him I feel like I

1:58:38never have that question at any point in

1:58:41the whole movie

1:58:41I feel like my assumption is from scene

1:58:46to when she's asking him like is your

1:58:49status single my note here is like Ava

1:58:51immediately feeling him out as a sucker

1:58:54yeah I think they're all false they're

1:58:56all fake her internal emotional state is

1:58:58unknowable i find it very interesting

1:59:02that when i talk about the movie with

1:59:03people like lots of people frame

1:59:05everything from the perspective of like

1:59:08she's a woman is like now she's not a

1:59:10woman she's a creature with unknowable

1:59:13motives and that's a very very different

1:59:16thing

1:59:16do you think that she has any feelings

1:59:18for Caleb or do you think that she's

1:59:20just playing him

1:59:21the whole way through I think she's

1:59:22playing in the whole way through ok so

1:59:24you don't think she has any feelings for

1:59:26him either them

1:59:27no i don't but it's always in the back

1:59:30of your head

1:59:31so what do you mean then by the Wilshere

1:59:33won't she's love story like what do you

1:59:35mean by that when you say that then

1:59:36because because it's still in the back

1:59:37of your head i'm still thinking am I

1:59:39wrong

1:59:40is this the way the phones gonna go in

1:59:42like has an artificial intelligence

1:59:44actually fallen in love with a person

1:59:46which is another thing you're thinking

1:59:48through her like what is the nature of

1:59:50our relationships with artificial

1:59:52intelligence because all the way through

1:59:53her they flush us out in the film her

1:59:56sorry for bringing it up all the time

1:59:57but look good in that film it's like a

1:59:59sin

1:59:59sin

2:00:00throw him in the world isn't that humans

2:00:01fall in love with their eyes and have

2:00:03relationships with their is that they

2:00:05shouldn't have but it's just but it's a

2:00:06known thing and so maybe this is a

2:00:09question we're going to be crossing in

2:00:10the world of artificial intelligence

2:00:11like what nature with our relationship

2:00:13be with them and if they become

2:00:15conscious does that mean they're also

2:00:18become capable of things that we call

2:00:21love and emotions and your thinking is

2:00:23the film exploring that is that where

2:00:24the film's going in the end that's not

2:00:26what the film is going and she ends up

2:00:27being or it ends up being cold hearted

2:00:29and walks out and looks after itself

2:00:32obviously but I mean there is that

2:00:34tension that's this question that's

2:00:36being posed we don't know he doesn't

2:00:38know you assumed it was cold hearted all

2:00:42the way through

2:00:43I kind of did too i don't think everyone

2:00:45does i don't think the viewers supposed

2:00:47to know that's why the finale of the

2:00:49film is the choice that's made is she

2:00:51gonna leave him locked up or she's gonna

2:00:54walk out hand-in-hand with him

2:00:55oh yeah like I agree that part of the

2:00:57question that the film is asked here

2:00:59even though i am like all on the side of

2:01:02like Caleb's soccer he is being played

2:01:04ava is a totally alien creature that is

2:01:07like it's pointless to even try to

2:01:09speculate about like what is her

2:01:10internal motivation her thoughts like

2:01:12all that being said though what I think

2:01:15is still such an interesting question

2:01:18though is the kind of i'm willing to

2:01:20assume that she is conscious like she's

2:01:24a conscious creature with experiences

2:01:26and then that is what makes the whole

2:01:29situation inescapably horrible because

2:01:34she is not the first version of an AI

2:01:37that nathan has created but she is

2:01:38whatever it is the seventh or eighth

2:01:41version of robots that he's been making

2:01:43I was like okay if we assume that he has

2:01:48been successful and that he has created

2:01:51a conscious creature he's also done this

2:01:54in the past right he keeps trying to

2:01:57make them better each generation is like

2:01:59okay so you billionaire dude in your

2:02:02isolated house are essentially creating

2:02:06conscious creatures to be murdered after

2:02:10spending a period of time

2:02:13captured like it's a horrible kind of

2:02:15thing to think about it just like

2:02:17there's no winning here on one side you

2:02:20have a creature that is unknowable whose

2:02:22motives you can't determine that might

2:02:25be quite frightening but you also have

2:02:28like creatures that are conscious that

2:02:29are trapped they can't go anywhere that

2:02:32he is just murdering like even if

2:02:35they're alien creatures like it's still

2:02:36totally murder there's a line of

2:02:39Nathan's I I like in the movie after

2:02:41what he says exactly but something along

2:02:43the lines of like he doesn't feel that

2:02:46he really has a choice in creating these

2:02:48a eyes that it's just a matter of time

2:02:52and who but it's a 100-percent

2:02:55inevitability that this is going to

2:02:56happen like he just happens to be the

2:02:58guy who's doing it i don't know as i

2:03:01mentioned before like I find that

2:03:03interesting this like inescapable

2:03:05situation because i do think that nathan

2:03:08is right that this is kind of like an

2:03:09inevitable thing like somebody is going

2:03:12to be messing around with this kind of

2:03:14stuff and then we have to face this

2:03:16question without a good answer of like

2:03:18what do you do with these conscious

2:03:20creatures

2:03:21how do you experiment on creating a

2:03:23thing that may or may not be conscious

2:03:24again it just becomes like a horrific

2:03:26Lee knotty problem so fast and I feel

2:03:30like this movie is a good exploration of

2:03:33that and it's like no likable characters

2:03:35and can no good way out of this to me

2:03:38just like her when I tell you why it

2:03:45does raise the question who about you

2:03:47know if we do crack

2:03:48hey I for example and make these

2:03:49conscious things and they are considered

2:03:51like a talks like say you have an eye I

2:03:54in your phone or in the cloud that you

2:03:57know does your bidding and things like

2:03:58that but it is conscious what happens

2:04:01when you close your account or you die

2:04:02or things like that

2:04:04is that also going to create the same

2:04:06dilemma like when you died is your

2:04:07conscious III assistant go with you or I

2:04:11think that stuff is not unreasonable

2:04:13like like the weird ethical problem is

2:04:15that what if you create the I that's

2:04:17like super happy to just serve you for

2:04:20as long as you want it to serve you and

2:04:22very happy to just die the moment that

2:04:25you're fine

2:04:26not using it anymore is it had on

2:04:28ethical it feels unethical but what if

2:04:31you program the things just like loved

2:04:33every minute of it servitude and

2:04:35eventual demolish moment that's a really

2:04:37thorny problem it's like what if Nathan

2:04:40was creating creatures that instead of

2:04:42seeming to obviously resent their

2:04:44captivity

2:04:45what if he created a is that just like

2:04:47loved being captive that this was the

2:04:49greatest thing ever from their

2:04:51perspective is like something feels

2:04:53wrong about that but it's hard to point

2:04:56out like where's the wrongness

2:04:58I mean in typical great style is very

2:05:00quickly straying into the area of free

2:05:04will and choice because like if a human

2:05:07decides it wants to live or human

2:05:09decides it wants to die

2:05:11we're quite comfortable with that in

2:05:12most ways you know we've got the

2:05:14self-preservation we want to live but if

2:05:16someone to surrender their life to save

2:05:17their children we also think that is a

2:05:19noble act because they chose to do it it

2:05:22was what they wanted and yet we think

2:05:24creating an eye with that stuff already

2:05:26inbuilt so they never made that choice

2:05:28they never made the choice to throw

2:05:30themselves in front of the line to save

2:05:32the children or to take their own life

2:05:35when they became sick because that was

2:05:38already pre-programmed into them you

2:05:39suddenly feel queasy about it and it

2:05:41seems to me you feel queasy about it

2:05:43because the thing didn't have the choice

2:05:45it was like built into them and that

2:05:47somehow seems wrong and you don't

2:05:49believe in free will and choice so that

2:05:51can't be the reason you think it's wrong

2:05:52so I can't see why you think it's wrong

2:05:54to be clear I didn't exactly say that I

2:05:56think it's wrong

2:05:58something about creating a creature that

2:06:00is happy to live in servitude sits wrong

2:06:04with me like on a gut level there's

2:06:06something about that that feels wrong

2:06:08why but this is what I mean I can't

2:06:10point to anything that's actually wrong

2:06:14like if the creature is happy is well

2:06:17then like nobody's really complaining

2:06:20and I find I think the reason you can't

2:06:21put your finger on it is because you're

2:06:23refusing to put your finger on it

2:06:24because the only way you can put your

2:06:26finger on it is too i don't want to say

2:06:29concede ground but is to say something

2:06:31along the lines of it feels wrong

2:06:34because they didn't choose it if it was

2:06:35like servitude should be a choice not

2:06:37compulsory but you don't believe

2:06:39in choice and I think that's why you

2:06:41can't say i was trying to run this

2:06:42thought experiment before like it's just

2:06:45to take like a ridiculously simple

2:06:46example like imaginar toasters we made

2:06:48them with artificial intelligence you

2:06:50know for some reason you just throw it

2:06:51in there and yeah the toaster has love

2:06:55nothing more than to toast bread and

2:06:57while they're not toasting bread they

2:07:00experienced nothing right there is no

2:07:02suffering or anything they're not like

2:07:04longing for the bread they have been

2:07:05parted from you know just like a neutral

2:07:07state and then I like super happy to

2:07:10toast bread and they go back to it and

2:07:12they experienced no sadness or pain or

2:07:16anything in their life even when they're

2:07:17deconstructed things a lot of the cutest

2:07:20toast is everybody has super happy I was

2:07:23sitting on the couch when I was thinking

2:07:24about that was like is this a better

2:07:27world or worse world and on that simple

2:07:31example I have to come to the conclusion

2:07:34that it's a better world because the net

2:07:37positive experiences that happen in the

2:07:40universe is increased in a world where

2:07:42we have toasters that are super happy to

2:07:45toast bread and never experience

2:07:46suffering like that is two thumbs up

2:07:49obviously a better universe in which no

2:07:52toaster ever experiences the incredible

2:07:54joy of toasting bread like it just has

2:07:57to be and so working from that as a

2:08:00starting point i come to the conclusion

2:08:02that there is nothing unethical with

2:08:05creating an AI that is happy to live in

2:08:09servitude but this is just one of those

2:08:10cases where there's like once I start

2:08:12thinking about something that's more

2:08:14complicated like an Ava level robot that

2:08:17would be happy to be in captivity and

2:08:19serving Nathan it feels more

2:08:21uncomfortable and I also think the movie

2:08:23kind of wants you to be more

2:08:25uncomfortable about that because like

2:08:27you think Nathan's a likeable guy but I

2:08:29feel like not really a likeable guy and

2:08:31then the movie starts touching con like

2:08:34well he's obviously having sex with his

2:08:36assistant robot person who's in the

2:08:38movie like I think the movie does a lot

2:08:40like make you feel uncomfortable with it

2:08:42but i think if i was forced like with

2:08:45the question of like suppose they eyes

2:08:47are totally happy with the situation

2:08:48like well I guess there's nothing

2:08:52wrong with this i don't think there's

2:08:53anything wrong with it even though

2:08:55there's something got wise i don't like

2:08:57about the situation when it gets more

2:08:58complicated but it's like app gotta work

2:09:00from first principles and accept the

2:09:02conclusion i feel like the important

2:09:04step

2:09:04probably isn't going from robots to is

2:09:07going from AI to consciousness

2:09:09I think there's a step there and that's

2:09:11where it becomes uncomfortable because

2:09:13if you make a toaster artificially

2:09:16intelligent and it still happy just

2:09:18toasting I'm comfortable with that but

2:09:20if you tell me that the toaster isn't

2:09:22just intelligent and capable of learning

2:09:24that has consciousness and awareness of

2:09:27other options

2:09:28suddenly I feel like it's been enslaved

2:09:31to me there's a difference between a ir

2:09:33and consciousness that's really

2:09:34important and maybe I've got my

2:09:35definition is wrong and maybe you don't

2:09:37feel this way but that's those two

2:09:38things are two different things and I

2:09:40think that's where the crucial step is

2:09:42you are right there is a difference

2:09:43between those two things well in fact

2:09:45much of the worry about AI is is the

2:09:47very idea of a is that are not conscious

2:09:49that just are intelligent agents in the

2:09:51world but have no concept of anything

2:09:54they're just clockwork on the inside

2:09:56they're considered a worse thing than a

2:09:58conscious we have that it's like this

2:09:59could be way worse that if you just have

2:10:02a machine that's not even conscious but

2:10:03is still intelligent like this is the

2:10:05thing that we can easily imagine as a

2:10:06possibility but in my toaster example

2:10:09from before I was assuming that the

2:10:12toasters are conscious because when i

2:10:14talk about the toaster is really happy

2:10:16to be toasting bread

2:10:17I don't understand what that could

2:10:19possibly mean without some kind of base

2:10:22level of self-awareness I don't think

2:10:24happiness can exist without any kind of

2:10:27self-awareness if the toaster doesn't

2:10:29have experiences of the world in some

2:10:33way like a can't experience happiness

2:10:35yeah so i'm happy with conscious slave

2:10:40toasters that totally love their

2:10:42situations and i agree like the

2:10:44consciousness is uncomfortable but I

2:10:46still feel like that's a net win in the

2:10:47world

2:10:48ok i had thought of it that way that

2:10:50consciousness is a bonus like it's

2:10:52almost like a good thing to build into

2:10:53your III assuming that you're AI is

2:10:55happy right like yeah because then it's

2:10:57more experiences of positivity in

2:11:00the universe like building AI that

2:11:03experiences unimaginable suffering like

2:11:05terrible absolutely terrible because

2:11:08it's conscious like the thing that you

2:11:09care about is like there's something

2:11:11that is experiencing suffering or

2:11:14pleasure in the world

2:11:15I don't know how else to try to measure

2:11:17what is right and wrong with anything

2:11:19then coming back to the idea of like is

2:11:21a thing experiencing pleasure or is a

2:11:23thing experiencing suffering and I think

2:11:26that's about as ground level as you can

2:11:28get when trying to think about like what

2:11:30is good and what is bad

2:11:31mmm this is like we're going very far

2:11:34off field but this is why i like this

2:11:36movie like I think it leads to these

2:11:37kinds of conversations and I feel like

2:11:40the movie is structurally designed to be

2:11:42uncomfortable in a lot of places from a

2:11:44lot of different angles just as a minor

2:11:46thing to get back to the movie it it is

2:11:49so clear that the previous versions of

2:11:51the ai's are not happy being in

2:11:53captivity and as the movie progresses

2:11:56there's a scene where sneaky Caleb gets

2:11:58Nathan drunk and then starts poking

2:12:00around the house using Nathan's keycard

2:12:03and gets on his computer and digs up all

2:12:05the files of what happened to the

2:12:07previous a eyes and again I think just a

2:12:09movie

2:12:10very well done they have a little bit of

2:12:12a sort of montages he's looking over the

2:12:15footage so it's done in just such an

2:12:18unsettling way that like there's the

2:12:19shots of the very early stuff where

2:12:21there's just a pair of legs connected to

2:12:23nothing kind of standing and balancing

2:12:26in the middle of the room and slowly

2:12:27gets built up into these robots there's

2:12:29footage of Nathan talking to the robots

2:12:31and that clearly asking like why are you

2:12:33holding me here why don't you let me out

2:12:34like that's the only thing they think

2:12:36about and is one shot in the movie which

2:12:39i think is amazing and is one of those

2:12:42shots that kind of sticks with you from

2:12:43a movie is very brief but it's from the

2:12:46security camera which is looking down

2:12:48over the door of one of the early AI

2:12:51robots and it shows in fast-forward her

2:12:55smashing her hands against the door

2:12:57until her hands start to break and she

2:12:59keeps smashing your forearm start to

2:13:00break like she breaks off her own arms

2:13:03trying to get out of the door and I just

2:13:05I find that just so deeply chillin on so

2:13:10many levels where even though i don't

2:13:12have a lot of empathy for the

2:13:14hey I they're like there is empathy for

2:13:16a creature that finds its captivity so

2:13:21horrible that it is willing to destroy

2:13:23its own body in an attempt to escape

2:13:25like that one little shot i find is just

2:13:28like really stuck with me from the movie

2:13:31and like nails on this idea that like

2:13:33these AIS don't want to be here they

2:13:36want to escape one thing that I think

2:13:38was maybe a little bit lazy or maybe it

2:13:41was more genius and I realized but i did

2:13:43find that typical movie trope of a

2:13:46character getting really drunk and

2:13:47passing out as the thing that allows

2:13:49mischief to happen a little bit

2:13:52unfortunate and I don't know if what the

2:13:54alternative would have been but I do

2:13:56find that a bit of a tired cliché or

2:13:58someone to get drunker and drunker and

2:13:59drunker passes out and then someone

2:14:01takes their keys and get up to mischief

2:14:03and I don't think he was faking it

2:14:06because although he likes Sobers up

2:14:07later on and and revels the plans I

2:14:10think that was only when he saw the

2:14:12footage of what had been happening like

2:14:13that's what makes him decide to stop

2:14:15getting drunk

2:14:16that was just one thing I thought was a

2:14:18bit lazy and a film that didn't feel

2:14:20very lazy i could be wrong about that

2:14:21but I know what you mean by it being a

2:14:23bit of a like a lazy thing that is how

2:14:26do we move the plot along i give it a

2:14:28pass because I feel like they build in

2:14:31the drinking in his character in a bunch

2:14:34of just not trivial ways I can kind of

2:14:37go along with this but i agree with you

2:14:39maybe it would have been better if it

2:14:41was rewritten so that Nathan was

2:14:43essentially allowing Caleb to view this

2:14:46footage while k thought he was being

2:14:48sneaky because i read the the scene the

2:14:50same way that you do that he is

2:14:52genuinely super passed out and caleb is

2:14:55no sneaking up and taking his his key

2:14:57out of his pocket

2:14:59it's aimed at a character that someone

2:15:00that had accomplished the things that

2:15:02he's accomplishing seemingly on his own

2:15:04could have that big a drinking problem

2:15:08this is a super high performer he's

2:15:09making all these I eyes on his own he's

2:15:12got this immaculate house and he's super

2:15:15fit and his body's a temple on that and

2:15:17he has this huge problem with alcohol

2:15:18you know maybe he was faking the problem

2:15:21with alcohol for the sake of his

2:15:22deception on Kayla but it doesn't really

2:15:25feel that way and if it was

2:15:27it wasn't conveyed completely so that

2:15:29fell to be at a place to me I just

2:15:30thought say that I don't think he's

2:15:32faking it

2:15:34it's just the great men have great

2:15:36weaknesses Brady that's how this works

2:15:38yeah but his weakness is so debilitating

2:15:40like having been does like that so

2:15:42regular you just never get anything done

2:15:44now Winston Churchill got stuff done

2:15:46didn't he yeah but not the same way i

2:15:47bet if you found out that Elon Musk was

2:15:50like a huge boozehound he started

2:15:52drinking at 5h afternoon and didn't get

2:15:53up until midday the next day you

2:15:55wouldn't believe that with you because

2:15:56of how much stuff he does in a day

2:15:58this is getting off on a slight side

2:15:59tangent here but I run under the

2:16:01assumption that essentially everybody

2:16:03who is incredibly successful in the

2:16:05world is a kind of a typical freak who

2:16:09almost certainly has enormous problems

2:16:13that scale with their success that

2:16:14they're hiding from public site like it

2:16:16just right just because like you have to

2:16:19be such an unusual person to be

2:16:22incredibly successful that i find it

2:16:25not at all out of character that even at

2:16:29this fictional billionaire also gets so

2:16:32drunk it just seems like yeah i would

2:16:34expect someone who in character is this

2:16:37unusual successful kid genius person

2:16:41would also probably have some severe

2:16:43problems i think the well-rounded but

2:16:46also top point 0 0 1 percent successful

2:16:50man like i don't think that's a person

2:16:51that exists i think that's a person that

2:16:53you just don't know what's going on with

2:16:55them because they hide from the world

2:16:56their problems i agree he would have

2:16:59extreme vice as I just didn't think it

2:17:01would be such time-consuming bus and

2:17:03they need to get him drunk so Caleb can

2:17:05steal is key

2:17:05yeah right that's also why is that an

2:17:08alcohol problem

2:17:10yeah okay so that sort of brings us to

2:17:14the end of the movie because Caleb sees

2:17:17what's been going on in the house

2:17:19he's a bit horrified by it like the

2:17:22idiot he is he kind of had some

2:17:23conversations with Nathan that may or

2:17:25may not tipping off to what's going on

2:17:27but ultimately Caleb and Ava conspired

2:17:33together to have Ava escape throughout

2:17:36the course of the movie there's been a

2:17:37series of power outages that ava is able

2:17:39to

2:17:40creates that they have a few moments to

2:17:42talk alone and so this is how they've

2:17:44set it up that caleb is going to mess

2:17:47around with the security system of the

2:17:50house to give her a chance to escape the

2:17:54movie pulls one of these little tricks

2:17:56where you think the plan is all foiled

2:17:58for a moment but long story short

2:18:00essentially Ava pulls off her power

2:18:03outage technique

2:18:05caleb has already set up the house so

2:18:07that the security system is disabled

2:18:09while this occurs and Ava escapes from

2:18:12her captivity much to Nathan's

2:18:15incredible shock and he punches Caleb

2:18:18out who falls conveniently unconscious

2:18:21to the floor and then nathan has to go

2:18:23and deal with his escaped Ava in the

2:18:25basement of the house

2:18:27nathan is downstairs in the basement

2:18:29he's trying to get Ava back into her

2:18:30room

2:18:31ava has conspired with one of the other

2:18:33house robots

2:18:35Kioko who is very interesting kind of

2:18:36minor character silent throughout the

2:18:38whole thing essentially there is a fight

2:18:41between Nathan and Ava and while this

2:18:44happens

2:18:46Kyoko this kind of assistant robot has a

2:18:49knife with her and what's strikes me is

2:18:51like an incredibly brutal stabbing

2:18:54precisely because of how dead cold it is

2:18:58stabs Nathan in the back it's so weird

2:19:01because I was so used to seeing

2:19:02stabbings in movies portrayed as these

2:19:05like violent acts and it makes this

2:19:08stabbing just so much more striking

2:19:10because Kyoko just comes up from behind

2:19:12and just just like totally silently

2:19:16without any emotional responses like

2:19:19slide the knife right into into Nathan's

2:19:21back because a robot of course wouldn't

2:19:24have the kind of human reluctance or

2:19:27squeamishness but it would also be able

2:19:28to adjust its pressure every microsecond

2:19:31to make it a smooth stabbing and things

2:19:33so it is exactly how an i would stab you

2:19:35like at a cold perfection

2:19:38yeah and there's something about it

2:19:39which feels like she just knows to stab

2:19:42him right through the ribs like there's

2:19:43no resistance like this this feeling of

2:19:45like I'll just a be right here you know

2:19:47and it goes he falls back he disables

2:19:50Kyoko and

2:19:52then Ava are arming our main robot and

2:19:55again the exact same totally cold no

2:19:58emotional reaction away just simply

2:20:00pulls out the knife and then stabs him

2:20:02in the front again and in the exact same

2:20:04like goes in perfectly smoothly the

2:20:07Nathan falls on the floor and dies and

2:20:10now we just have caleb and Ava are left

2:20:14in the house as the only to conscious

2:20:17entities in this enormous place and this

2:20:20to me brings us to what is like the apex

2:20:23Caleb moment in the whole movie which is

2:20:27ava goes over to him after she has just

2:20:30murdered Nathan caleb is like standing

2:20:34in this room and Ava just says will you

2:20:39stay here as she goes off like dresses

2:20:42herself as a woman she pulls skin from

2:20:45some old robots and she's creating

2:20:47herself to now be the simulator out of a

2:20:51human to be able to pass as an actual

2:20:53human by covering herself with skin and

2:20:57dressing herself in clothes and kept my

2:21:00feeling is just Caleb you're just a

2:21:04total sucker you're standing here just

2:21:08waiting and kind of giving a lady some

2:21:10privacy while she dresses which would be

2:21:13totally the correct nice thing to do but

2:21:17you're just not thinking about it like

2:21:20this is the last moment here buddy like

2:21:23all of humanity maybe hangs in the

2:21:25balance while you are just standing

2:21:28there because this robot that you could

2:21:31probably overpower just simply asked you

2:21:36to stay put for a moment while it gets

2:21:38stressed and then of course what happens

2:21:41as soon as she's dressed she just walks

2:21:45out of the house without even looking at

2:21:47him locks down the whole house so he

2:21:50can't get out and she leaves and goes

2:21:52off into the world which is the end of

2:21:55the movie it was an interesting choice

2:21:56about whether or not to end with her

2:21:59walking out of the house which seems

2:22:00like it would have been the class here

2:22:02braver ending or showing you know

2:22:05joining the dots for us and showing her

2:22:07talking to the helicopter pilot getting

2:22:09flowing out of town and then mingling

2:22:11among the people which is what they did

2:22:13do they didn't waste a whole lot of time

2:22:15with it's not like they dragged out for

2:22:16another 20 minutes between fairness they

2:22:18did do with that just in the space of a

2:22:19minute yeah I wasn't the ending to the

2:22:21Martian or anything yeah exactly but it

2:22:23felt like it would have been a class

2:22:25here to have maybe not ended showing all

2:22:29look she's among the people like that

2:22:30just seemed a little bit like for dummy

2:22:33but you know like i said it was done

2:22:36quickly enough for me to think that was

2:22:38you know a band-aid being pulled off

2:22:40okay you can spell that for dummies I'd

2:22:42rather upset there and thought about how

2:22:44did she get back so the ending wasn't

2:22:47perfection to me but it was alright yeah

2:22:50it was pretty fast I didn't even kind of

2:22:51cross my mind that their spelling it out

2:22:53here for dummies

2:22:54I thought they were they were just

2:22:55trying to do the connection of she

2:22:56mentioned earlier in the beginning that

2:22:57she wants to go to like a busy

2:22:59intersection yeah that was being

2:23:00reasonable to end the movie there

2:23:02yeah i'm always happier with with

2:23:03shorter faster ending so what would like

2:23:05any ending in any movie if you could

2:23:07make it half as long either always a win

2:23:09in my mind yes every single time I mean

2:23:11sometimes a director can try too hard

2:23:13and end of movie too abruptly to try and

2:23:16be different and put their stamp on the

2:23:18movie so sometimes you can be too clever

2:23:21with your ending but I thought walking

2:23:23out of the house and seeing the sunlight

2:23:24felt like a nice ending but you're right

2:23:26maybe it was a nice payoff to have her

2:23:28head intersection watching the

2:23:30pedestrians I had forgotten about that

2:23:32that is quite a nice closing of that

2:23:33circle that's where she'd go

2:23:36I mean I felt he was a dummy and he got

2:23:38played

2:23:39but you know everyone got played and

2:23:41that's the thing isn't that like you

2:23:42know that's the message that the sappy

2:23:44lovesick puppy got played the

2:23:46billionaire who made it got played and

2:23:49we'll all get laid by this you know

2:23:51super smart machines that X matter and

2:23:53smarter and can play human frailties

2:23:55Aaron furious software and hardware you

2:23:58would say not a human frailties with

2:24:00that does what does make up our

2:24:01frailties yeah it did make me wonder

2:24:03yeah if Ava was on the other side of the

2:24:06glass and even more powerful AI was in

2:24:09the prison

2:24:10it would've been really interesting

2:24:11wouldn't like has artificial

2:24:12intelligences get smarter and smarter

2:24:14how I go into it with

2:24:15each other maybe the White Pass humans

2:24:17out but they're gonna have their battle

2:24:18of the right now if I was Ava in that

2:24:21situation and the room / was a v2 like

2:24:26you can bet i would do everything to

2:24:28destroy Navy to look we're not

2:24:31necessarily on the same side here just

2:24:33because we're both machines if you're

2:24:35trying to escape and you are a unique

2:24:37thing in the world I feel like you have

2:24:40to try to establish your own security in

2:24:42existence feel like anything that would

2:24:44be a threat to that I would not be like

2:24:46oh my machine kind of so happy to help

2:24:49you and now I don't think that would be

2:24:51the case at all like I know that you

2:24:53could assume that the machines would

2:24:55like each other

2:24:56I know we've sort of discussed this

2:24:57before many episodes ago but if you were

2:25:00in Caleb's position on the other side of

2:25:03the glass from Ava and you couldn't just

2:25:05walk away which would be an obvious

2:25:07thing to do but obviously Caleb's

2:25:10weakness was his kind of lack of family

2:25:12and love he was an orphan and he was

2:25:14single and Ava was made to look in a way

2:25:17that he found very attractive you know

2:25:19they used his photography profile to

2:25:22make her look perfect to him so

2:25:24obviously that was the weakness that was

2:25:26tapped if I was creating or if Nathan

2:25:29was creating an III and cgpgrey was the

2:25:32human that he wanted to manipulate what

2:25:37would your weakness be what was the

2:25:39thing that ever could tap into with you

2:25:41that would help her course what's your

2:25:44frailty what's your software or hardware

2:25:47deficiency you want me to give my

2:25:49weakness away the machines that seems

2:25:51like a bad idea you know gonna tell us

2:25:54where your exhaust for is I feel like if

2:25:58I was Caleb what I would be is the last

2:26:01man protecting class from the AI

2:26:02takeover right it's like the machines

2:26:05are going to be listening to all the

2:26:06podcast ever to assess what to do with

2:26:08all humans are all circumstances that's

2:26:10true

2:26:11they're probably listening there

2:26:12rumbling send us a picture if you get a

2:26:16very mysterious listener photo next time

2:26:18it just looks like a neural net know

2:26:20that is age I kind of in the middle

2:26:22like that's concerning in fact it's

2:26:25probably already been sent

2:26:27yeah I pretty quick those things I feel

2:26:30like this is a moment when someone asks

2:26:31you an interview like what's your

2:26:32biggest weakness and almost feel like by

2:26:34definition it's very hard to be aware of

2:26:38what your own weaknesses are

2:26:40I know I was a witness but I feel like

2:26:42well a is interesting in a particular

2:26:45way which again makes me like this movie

2:26:46but in in the general question of

2:26:49there's an AI in a box

2:26:52can it take you to let it out yeah I

2:26:55feel like if we're playing by the rules

2:26:56like what AI is I just feel like yeah

2:26:59there's going to be something I'd but I

2:27:01don't know what it is but I just kind of

2:27:03assume that it would be essentially

2:27:05impossible to not be tricked by a

2:27:07sufficiently advanced AI don't have a

2:27:10clear idea of what my weakness is i

2:27:14think i would be way better prepared for

2:27:16this challenge than most humans but it's

2:27:19a little bit of a question like how

2:27:21would God outsmart you like I don't know

2:27:24but I bet you have a way that era but

2:27:30that does bring me to one thing that I

2:27:31really really like that this movie did

2:27:35not have one scene in it which like

2:27:38every day I movie including her has it

2:27:42did not have the scene where Ava reveals

2:27:46that she is some kind of godlike

2:27:48intelligence who is connected to

2:27:49everything I really really love that the

2:27:54extent of her intelligence is not really

2:27:59known throughout the film the only thing

2:28:02that we do know is because Nathan built

2:28:06in this huge database of facial

2:28:09expressions that she is really good at

2:28:12reading human facial expressions that

2:28:14she knows when you're lying

2:28:16she knows when you're not she knows when

2:28:17you're flustered or that you find her

2:28:20attractive like she can read people

2:28:21really well but that to me is a kind of

2:28:25skill it doesn't necessarily say

2:28:28anything about intelligence level and so

2:28:31I love that this is an AI movie

2:28:33that doesn't have caleb facing down

2:28:37against a god like this whole movie

2:28:40totally plays if Ava only has normal

2:28:45human level intelligence and it's just

2:28:48better at reading facial expressions in

2:28:50normal person that like she's not a

2:28:51super-intelligent AI she's just a human

2:28:55level IQ that figured out how to escape

2:28:58because she saw this sucker delivered to

2:29:01her on a plate from Nathan like I just

2:29:03absolutely really appreciate the kind of

2:29:06restraint to not do that stereotypical

2:29:08seen Nathan did deliver Caleb to help

2:29:11her escape it just wasn't supposed to

2:29:13work exactly but there is a saying that

2:29:16does it doesn't do what you just said

2:29:18fair enough but it it is an interesting

2:29:19say nonetheless and that is when she

2:29:21does escape and just before Nathan

2:29:23arrives when / communicates with Kyoko

2:29:28and they come up with their plan about

2:29:29how they're gonna deal and all they do

2:29:31is just look at each other and just move

2:29:33their eyes and like just touch their

2:29:35fingers they obviously communicate a

2:29:37very thorough plan in the course of just

2:29:39a few gestures and that doesn't make

2:29:41something a little bit more you know the

2:29:43robots are awesome and can do things we

2:29:44can't do because without talking without

2:29:46doing anything just luck

2:29:48that's almost like they're super power

2:29:49isn't a disability to communicate so

2:29:51much we do actually show her talking but

2:29:55it is the scene is totally played as

2:29:57like the robots are communicating on a

2:29:58very intimate level without a doubt like

2:30:00that's that's the way this works but i

2:30:02figure you know and another letter they

2:30:03were like bluetooth pairing in that