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Hello Internet

H.I. #66: A Classic Episode

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0:00:00so great looking through our projected

0:00:03notes here I think potentially we have a

0:00:05classic hello Internet episode all the

0:00:08major food groups are represented here

0:00:11oh boy oh boy reading between the lines

0:00:14that means it's an episode you're gonna

0:00:15dread when I think of what Brady

0:00:18imagines to be a classic episode of

0:00:20Hello internet all i can think of is

0:00:22many many Brady segments that pretty

0:00:26much sums it up after my success last

0:00:32week for the second episode in a row i'm

0:00:35gonna try to open up without listening

0:00:37message listener interaction because you

0:00:39know i love them and I know you hate

0:00:41them

0:00:41I know but no I'm not gonna let you get

0:00:43away with that I don't hate them

0:00:45I only include them if they're

0:00:47interesting are asked the difference

0:00:48I to enjoy the interesting ones that's

0:00:51why I leave them in

0:00:52ok let's see how this one fares i went

0:00:56to what I sometimes referred to as the

0:00:59hello Internet postbox the other day

0:01:01okay

0:01:02essentially this is my post box if

0:01:03there's something you want to send a

0:01:04gray do not send it to this box because

0:01:07i will be in it i would not give it to

0:01:09gray because i cannot set that precedent

0:01:12you mean your peel box that's what

0:01:13you're talking about the one we used for

0:01:15the election that's the hello Internet

0:01:16post yes exactly

0:01:17ok so i went along I went along for a

0:01:20check hoping there might be a few new

0:01:21postcards there was a package know there

0:01:25are several packages actually oh my that

0:01:27sounds like something i would hand over

0:01:29to the police

0:01:30well yes anyway I open this package it

0:01:35is a book now for background people

0:01:39might remember my thoughts on the book

0:01:42getting things done by david allen this

0:01:45is a book that gray I think holding

0:01:47quite high regard and i did not enjoy

0:01:50this book so much the extent where i got

0:01:52a refund on my audio book because I

0:01:54didn't want it and my hardcopy we

0:01:57auctioned for charity I wanted this book

0:01:59out of my life this book was not for me

0:02:00i will i will put the the show where we

0:02:02discussed it one of my favorites in the

0:02:05show notes again I think you

0:02:06misrepresent me here i'm not exactly

0:02:08sure that it was unambiguous hold in

0:02:10high regard on my part but I will

0:02:12let the listeners decided that was a

0:02:13fair characterization ok anyway like a

0:02:17bad penny

0:02:18someone has sent me a copy of this book

0:02:20it's got another copy

0:02:22I'm thinking now what's all this about

0:02:25so I open it up and on the inside cover

0:02:29the front inside cover whoever has said

0:02:31this has inscribed a small flag flag so

0:02:37immediately allowing bells start ringing

0:02:39this is obviously a mischief-maker rebel

0:02:41scum rides they're up to no good

0:02:43obviously uh-huh and then on the next

0:02:47page insert it between the pages is a

0:02:49beer coaster like a beer mat with a web

0:02:53address on it uh-huh

0:02:54and I'm thinking our knife what's going

0:02:56on here this is dodgy and it's an in

0:02:58girl in general however i'm supposed to

0:03:00pronounce that address so they want me

0:03:01to look at some photo huh

0:03:04but then before I look at the photo i

0:03:06turn the next page i love that you keep

0:03:08going into this yeah who knows what's

0:03:10coming but Brady is going to find out

0:03:12right

0:03:12ok it's an adventure now on the next

0:03:16page which is kind of like the title

0:03:17page is an inscription ok what does that

0:03:22say it says to Brady Haran give it

0:03:27another go

0:03:28i'm gonna guess is that like David

0:03:31Allen's signature on the buyer is david

0:03:33allen signature because if you go to the

0:03:35in girly which i'm sending you now we

0:03:39have someone who I don't know who this

0:03:41is

0:03:42they're obviously a mysterious Tim and

0:03:44holding a copy of the book standing with

0:03:47David Allen had a book signing

0:03:49so he is obviously taken his book up to

0:03:52David Allen and asked him to sign it to

0:03:54me asking me to give it another go

0:03:57that is fantastic a few things come into

0:04:02my mind when I say this the first is I

0:04:05have to say David Allen has gone up a

0:04:07few pegs in my standing O has e yeah but

0:04:10secondly how did the interaction work

0:04:13what did he say to dave allen when he

0:04:15was asked him to sign the book and say

0:04:16can you please say you know to Brady

0:04:19give it another go

0:04:20he must have had to explain our this

0:04:22podcast and there's this guy and you

0:04:24really slept off your book and

0:04:26said it was really boring and he like

0:04:28got rid of these copies and so you

0:04:30should listen to the episode it's really

0:04:32entertaining as put it in the show notes

0:04:35how do you think that unfolded that

0:04:40interaction i'm gonna get here is the

0:04:42thing the way you imagine stuff radius

0:04:44that someone goes into all of the

0:04:45details but i would suspect that this

0:04:49this magnificent him has pulled this off

0:04:52it would simply just say oh I have a

0:04:55friend who tried the book and didn't

0:04:57like it could you give them a suggestion

0:04:59to give it another try

0:05:00I think that's the fastest way in a book

0:05:03signing line to get the basic just a bit

0:05:05across I don't know great maybe I'm

0:05:07reading too much into the picture but if

0:05:09you zoom in on David Allen's face in

0:05:12that picture i sent you

0:05:13he doesn't look happy he does look a

0:05:15little bit like he's been cornered into

0:05:17doing something he didn't want to do or

0:05:18am I just reading too much into that was

0:05:20on the cover

0:05:21he looks all smarmy and tanned and happy

0:05:23and california and in this picture he

0:05:26looks a bit like just get me out of him

0:05:28and get me out of this photo looking at

0:05:30the picture i can see why you think that

0:05:32it also looks like maybe he is

0:05:34suppressing a bit of a smile like maybe

0:05:36he thinks this is some kind of funny

0:05:37situation

0:05:38his expression is hard to read but

0:05:40you're right maybe he just got cornered

0:05:42he wants to get out of there and it's

0:05:44someone has just told him and overly

0:05:47long overly detailed story in order to

0:05:49get them to sign his book ID like the

0:05:52term magnificent Tim I can't help but

0:05:55wonder it must be a weird experience to

0:05:58do a book signing of the book where your

0:06:01own faces on the cover where everyone is

0:06:03constantly handing you a book with a

0:06:05picture of you smiling at you to then

0:06:07sign if I was an author I wouldn't want

0:06:09my face on the cover of the book i would

0:06:11find that a weird situation signing

0:06:13books with my own face on it I think if

0:06:15you've signed off on having your face on

0:06:16the cover you're the sort of person who

0:06:18would probably quite enjoy signing a

0:06:19book with your face on the cover

0:06:21you might have a point that i might not

0:06:22be thinking this through all the way

0:06:23this is an excellence excellence

0:06:25listener interaction i don't see any way

0:06:28that I can possibly cut this from the

0:06:30show which makes you two for two in your

0:06:33gambling of openings are very well done

0:06:35brady and thankee magnificent team

0:06:37whoever you are if you if you do

0:06:39here this tell us about this interaction

0:06:41with david allen we want to hear every

0:06:43detail every nuance every every tick

0:06:46every every little bit of body language

0:06:49on a full briefing

0:06:51yes he wants to hear that all that full

0:06:53briefing it might not make it to the

0:06:55next show you owe me one hundred dollars

0:07:00breathing well after I made that play

0:07:03with you and for those who forgotten

0:07:05great went to VidCon and I made a bet

0:07:07that he would get dragged up to do like

0:07:09a panel or talk or something like that

0:07:12mhm and he bet me a hundred dollars he

0:07:15wouldn't em and on the face of our

0:07:18thought that was a good bet and very

0:07:20quickly after making it I realized it

0:07:23was a mistake and it wasn't a mistake

0:07:24for the reason that you think it's a

0:07:26mistake okay it wasn't a mistake because

0:07:29gray is like a recluse or shy or doesn't

0:07:32like attention

0:07:33uh-huh that those things are true but

0:07:35grades also like you know you do do

0:07:38public things now

0:07:39uh-huh and you've started doing more of

0:07:41it and also you are like a nice guy and

0:07:44someone who likes to please his friends

0:07:46and his colleagues ok interesting i

0:07:49think it's true you will help your

0:07:50friends if they ask you and I imagine a

0:07:53scenario where someone was going to say

0:07:55you gray come up and do this panel I

0:07:57help us out with this Q&A because you

0:07:59know everyone that's great to be a nice

0:08:00surprise and I thought put in that

0:08:02situation you would agree to it

0:08:05the thing that I didn't take into

0:08:07account is Howard likely it was that

0:08:11would happen

0:08:12mm because people don't like giving up

0:08:15their stage and what and what first and

0:08:18doing a clear an area panel is going to

0:08:20want to give up their limelight to

0:08:21someone else you know these are like in

0:08:24a YouTube celebrities who loves the

0:08:27limelight so it suddenly occurred to me

0:08:29hang on

0:08:29great probably won't even get asked to

0:08:31do this so you never have to refuse to

0:08:35come on

0:08:36did you get asked I when interacting

0:08:38with people essentially pre shut down

0:08:41any discussion of joining any panels by

0:08:43always saying oh I'm just here is a

0:08:45civilian

0:08:46I'm just here as a tourist i'm not doing

0:08:48anything I'm just here as a normal guy

0:08:50just a normal person with

0:08:52VidCon pass that's what I was trying to

0:08:54pinch myself to in every single

0:08:56interaction and you know remarkably no i

0:08:59did not get asked to do anything but i

0:09:01also agree with you that I interesting

0:09:03experience of VidCon was over and over

0:09:08realizing like oh this is obviously

0:09:11we're all of the extra verts go

0:09:15I think all of the people who loved to

0:09:18be onstage who love to be in front of

0:09:21huge audiences like by definition if you

0:09:24are a huge youtube star you are probably

0:09:26that kind of person you are probably not

0:09:29a huge introverted like there are

0:09:31exceptions to that but for the most case

0:09:33that's the way it's going to work and so

0:09:36you are definitely right that there may

0:09:38have been an element of who wants to

0:09:40invite an additional person up on their

0:09:42panel nobody nobody wants to do that

0:09:44everybody wants the panel to be as much

0:09:46about them as they can possibly have a

0:09:47big say I mean that's it i was right i

0:09:50mean i was wrong but I was right and why

0:09:52I was wrong as soon as I made the bet I

0:09:54realized my mistake was not graze

0:09:56introversion it was everyone else's

0:09:58extraversion it's their unwillingness to

0:10:01share the limelight so I are you a

0:10:04hundred dollars you owe me a hundred

0:10:05dollars and because of breaks at which

0:10:07we may discuss later i need to do a bit

0:10:09of horse trading about what the best way

0:10:11to give you that money will be stressed

0:10:13the pound plummets I don't know how I'm

0:10:16gonna do this but i'll try and find a

0:10:18way to do it they went bankrupt me right

0:10:20$100 or 5,000 path so I lost the bet so

0:10:28while i was at VidCon we had just

0:10:31recorded that morning and we had her big

0:10:34discussion about the snapchat how does

0:10:38it work and why ? and for the entirety

0:10:42of VidCon our friend Destin

0:10:46smartereveryday just kept pushing me to

0:10:49join snapshots that do that dude he's

0:10:52like a snapchat drug pusher every

0:10:55conversation I think he must have stuck

0:10:57in the snapchat i honest to god that was

0:10:59what i was thinking feels like you are

0:11:00so pushing this i'm just going to assume

0:11:03that you're a secret co-founder of

0:11:05snapchat

0:11:06nothing else makes any sense here and it

0:11:08was one of those things where the more

0:11:11someone talked the less unless i was

0:11:13convinced every second right so like we

0:11:15had this whole conversation where you

0:11:16tried to explain it to me and then I had

0:11:18destined showing me all of the amazing

0:11:21things that you could do on snapchat

0:11:22including a moment which I totally loved

0:11:24where we were just having as you do I

0:11:27hop for dinner in America and Destin

0:11:30whips out his phone he's like look at

0:11:32this thing that you can do I can just

0:11:34film you and your hands eating your

0:11:36dinner isn't this great this is going to

0:11:38go up on snapchat immediately and people

0:11:40can look at it as I I want nothing to do

0:11:43with this natural thing poker the more

0:11:45you're trying to convince me the less

0:11:47convincing this absolutely is he was

0:11:50super excited about that video he asked

0:11:52me the other day if I want like the

0:11:53original footage I think he thinks it's

0:11:55approved to feel more than the moon

0:11:56landings man prays heads on the snapchat

0:11:59like it was that you know your snapchat

0:12:01debut or something maybe there's

0:12:03something about their video I've missed

0:12:04but I sort of what shouldn't thought

0:12:06it's just a dude filming another dudes

0:12:07hands eating food too and the don'ts

0:12:09sounds and impressed about being filmed

0:12:11and the thing that I didn't even

0:12:13understand it is it seems like snapchat

0:12:15just like twitter has a character limit

0:12:17snapchat has some kind of time limit for

0:12:19what is recording yeah when he was

0:12:21trying to explain it to me it just cuts

0:12:22off in the middle as i get great you're

0:12:24totally selling this thing you're gonna

0:12:25film the thing we're talking about it

0:12:27and then it just cuts off on the middle

0:12:29anyway this is awful but this is dumb

0:12:31this is terrible but it's nonetheless

0:12:34while I mentioned in the last show that

0:12:36I made a little note for my assistant to

0:12:39make me a snapchat just like someone

0:12:41totally out of touch would do after the

0:12:43show i forgot to delete that little

0:12:46instruction and so I have actually ended

0:12:49up with a snapchat and I thought okay

0:12:53just for completeness is sake i'm going

0:12:56to install it on my phone and just see

0:12:58what it looks like and maybe I'll do one

0:13:01thing and then I'll just never do it

0:13:02again and I just want to reiterate a

0:13:05thousandfold your described experience

0:13:08of even installing and using snapchat at

0:13:12all is a completely baffling experience

0:13:14thank you thank you

0:13:16I did have a lot of people saying it

0:13:18wasn't just you ready but having it come

0:13:19from you is vindication because you're

0:13:22you know you're pretty up with the tech

0:13:23I thought you might be exaggerating or

0:13:27just like totally out of touch but like

0:13:30trying to get that thing installed and

0:13:32looking at the stars like you have to

0:13:33put this and can't get this thing take a

0:13:35picture of this and then when it loads

0:13:36up there is no labels on any buttons the

0:13:38button seem intentionally obscure and

0:13:41somehow throughout the entirety of

0:13:44everybody describing it to me and

0:13:45everybody showing it to me i somehow

0:13:47missed it was purely video that there

0:13:50was literally nothing you could do aside

0:13:52from video and as soon as i figure that

0:13:53out I was like I the hell with this i'm

0:13:55just talking to get off my own you can

0:13:58take stills no okay well i didn't get

0:14:00far

0:14:01then why don't you just tell you just

0:14:03tap that video button instead of holding

0:14:04it down

0:14:05oh ok it's completely baffling great i

0:14:07like it's like that scene in movies when

0:14:09people get into the alien spacecraft and

0:14:12there's like four different symbols on

0:14:14the dashboard and yet somehow they still

0:14:15managed to fly the spaceship

0:14:17I don't like that's what the whole world

0:14:18is like with snapchat we're flying the

0:14:20spaceship with symbols and controls none

0:14:23of us understand anyway I just have to

0:14:27completely agree with you i feel like i

0:14:29was glad to have the experience of maybe

0:14:3490 seconds of playing around with

0:14:35snapchat just to see what it was like

0:14:37and then realizing nope i have no place

0:14:39for this in my life it brings me

0:14:41absolutely no utility no matter how much

0:14:44Destin keeps pushing it no matter how

0:14:46much he wants to drive up the value of

0:14:48his stocks and snapchat i am not going

0:14:50to use this thing to be fair it's suits

0:14:53Destin because he's such a nice guy

0:14:55usually charming and he really likes

0:14:57interacting with as many people as

0:14:59possible and he lives in this world

0:15:01where his day lasts 90 hours so he has

0:15:03time to do this as far as i can tell he

0:15:06does not sleep as I said before I think

0:15:08it's less you there has been an

0:15:09interesting development in the world of

0:15:11snapchat since we spoke you know how we

0:15:13have this delusion that like the world

0:15:15changes and continents move based on

0:15:18things we talked about hello Internet

0:15:20I don't think it is a delusion I more

0:15:22episodes we do the more confirmation

0:15:25bias we have for this

0:15:26well you may remember I think I

0:15:29mentioned this on the podcast

0:15:30that was certainly something I felt I

0:15:32felt a frustration about not being able

0:15:35to take past material and media and put

0:15:39it on the snapchat and always had to be

0:15:41immediate like I had to make a picture

0:15:42now and put it on I couldn't go and get

0:15:45get those beautiful pictures from Mount

0:15:47Everest five years ago when brag about

0:15:49that on snapchat because you can't go

0:15:51and get stuff from the vault right for

0:15:53shame

0:15:54yeah the funny thing is within a day or

0:15:57two I realized the error of my ways and

0:16:00I realized the strength of snapchat was

0:16:03this immediacy people couldn't Instagram

0:16:05and make their lives like all amazing it

0:16:07was unvarnished it was like this really

0:16:10nice immediate contact everything

0:16:12disappears in 24 hours you know the

0:16:15blackboard is constantly being white

0:16:17clean and I realized this was what was

0:16:19good about it and I embraced that now

0:16:21and then about day or two after that

0:16:24snapchat and melts they are now allowing

0:16:27people to do the exact thing that I wish

0:16:29they did and now I wish they wouldn't do

0:16:31but they are doing and you can take

0:16:34things from the vault and create this

0:16:35new area of snapchat which I haven't

0:16:37looked at yet and I don't know how it

0:16:38works i think it's called memories or

0:16:40something like that so in addition to

0:16:42your sort of immediate day-to-day story

0:16:44you can now go and get your perfectly

0:16:47crafted photos and photoshop them and

0:16:50have nice vignettes and make everything

0:16:52look perfect and pretty and not the sort

0:16:55of crazy and vanish snapchat which I

0:16:57think works better

0:16:58so it's all change well I trust that now

0:17:02that you have explained to snapchat the

0:17:05errors of their ways they will quickly

0:17:07revert this decision if you've got a

0:17:10phone or a camera or a computer full of

0:17:13photos

0:17:14why not liberate at least some of them

0:17:16into the real world

0:17:17nothing beats having some of your

0:17:18favorite memories hanging on the wall

0:17:20sitting on the mantelpiece or maybe

0:17:22poached on your desk and one of the best

0:17:24ways to do this is with fracture

0:17:26fractures a great service which print

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0:17:39are you going to do is simply upload the

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0:18:53to talk about flags if we're going to

0:18:55have a classic episode well and we

0:18:57probably have to talk about emojis

0:18:59okay I have an emoji flag story how do

0:19:02you a submission has been prepared and

0:19:04again i'll try and link to it i think

0:19:06it's been done by these people from

0:19:08emoji pedia and you know people in the

0:19:11emoji world have put in this formal

0:19:13submission to whoever you have to

0:19:14formally submit things to to have emojis

0:19:17recognized to have the home nation flags

0:19:20made into official emojis because at the

0:19:25moment there is the Union Jack

0:19:26representing the United Kingdom but

0:19:29there is no england flag there is no

0:19:31wireless flag there's no Scotland flag

0:19:33and I've actually found that quite

0:19:35frustrating there have been times

0:19:36believe are not where I wanted to use

0:19:38those flags and have been unable to

0:19:40literally not more than three hours ago

0:19:43I wanted to send someone in England

0:19:46Wales emoji flag thing and discovered

0:19:49for the very first time that those whole

0:19:51nation flags don't exist i just assume

0:19:53that they would be there but there

0:19:54that yeah so I know there are sort of

0:19:57thin end of the wedge and you can open

0:19:59the floodgates and where does this stop

0:20:01but i think the home nations should be

0:20:03in the emoji sphere and i hope that this

0:20:06submission was successful

0:20:08well I mean if they're going to do the

0:20:10whole nation flags i think they

0:20:13absolutely have to do all 50 states

0:20:14flags i think there's no way around that

0:20:16no this is not the case because I beg to

0:20:19disagree and obviously have to do the

0:20:21Liberian County flags but yes of course

0:20:24right just for funsies those need to be

0:20:25in there yes i agree but this whole

0:20:28nation thing has been causing

0:20:29significant problems for example the

0:20:31european football championships which

0:20:32are finishing today as we record the

0:20:35fire was actually on shortly

0:20:36there's no united kingdom team in that

0:20:39there's all these international teams

0:20:41and we have when I was competing and we

0:20:42have England the same is true of the

0:20:44world cup of football now Texas and

0:20:47California who and Nevada and whatever

0:20:51don't have teams competing at the world

0:20:53cup but Scotland and Wales and England

0:20:56are these are countries that states that

0:20:58actually causes formatting problems with

0:21:00some people who depend on emojis when

0:21:02all these tourneys take place and I mean

0:21:05I know there's more to the world and

0:21:06sport but it's going to say yes I find

0:21:10your solely because there are sports

0:21:12competing things not super convincing

0:21:14home nations and sports is always such a

0:21:16confusing weird historical thing that

0:21:19occurs that doesn't necessarily make any

0:21:21sense whatsoever especially when you

0:21:23look at the population breakdown of

0:21:25Scotland Wales Northern Ireland we know

0:21:28versus other places so I'm definitely

0:21:31gonna say this that if the home nations

0:21:32get accepted i think the moji committee

0:21:36or whoever is in charge of this i think

0:21:38they have to do the individual state

0:21:40flags i think there's no argument around

0:21:41this i don't find your sports than

0:21:43convincing just seriously for a moment

0:21:45you seriously believe that

0:21:46yeah I think they should do the state

0:21:47flags what about the state flags

0:21:49Australia you know I mean let's be

0:21:51honest who cares are so America can have

0:21:54a statement exactly right exactly right

0:21:56listen but who cares right nobody often

0:21:59have you ever want to use a state flag

0:22:01for one of the states and australia

0:22:02never right

0:22:04how often does someone from Texas want

0:22:06to use a Texas flag emoji

0:22:08I bet every day of their life Texans are

0:22:10sad that they don't have an official

0:22:12Texas emoji to use I bet there's an

0:22:15everyday sad texans in their hats

0:22:17yeah well it's been an emoji of like a

0:22:19cowboy hat or something it's not the

0:22:21same as Texas you know and and think of

0:22:24all of those states they could have such

0:22:26a beautiful field of barely

0:22:29distinguishable blue icons with some

0:22:32kind of muddy yellow logo in the center

0:22:34each of them to pick from it could be

0:22:36amazing i can already foresee the day

0:22:38we're on the 4-inch screen of my iphone

0:22:42SE e I'm trying to distinguish the new

0:22:46york state flag by looking for a tiny

0:22:48Excelsior written at the bottom of a

0:22:50banner or a smiling Sun face in the

0:22:52middle of a field in the background

0:22:54trying to distinguish that from all of

0:22:56the varying his other blue flags with

0:22:58the seal in the center i look forward to

0:23:00that day it could an emoji possibly

0:23:03contain the spectacular horror that is

0:23:05the maryland state flag

0:23:08I wonder how many pixels by how many

0:23:11pixels a standard emoji is and I know

0:23:15Apple did just make an announcement that

0:23:16they're going to and begin their emoji

0:23:18by three times even still I can easily

0:23:21imagine that when you have to pick it

0:23:23out in that tiny little keyboard at the

0:23:25bottom there is simply no way to

0:23:27distinguish the flags and the parallel

0:23:29in flag at least you'll be able to pick

0:23:31it out but how much detail will

0:23:33accurately represent of their flag

0:23:36I bet none in all seriousness I do

0:23:41realize there would be a greater demand

0:23:43for American state flags than any other

0:23:45state flags of course that you cannot

0:23:48put the American state flags in at the

0:23:51expense of other country states and

0:23:54counties whereas I think the home

0:23:56nations of the UK while not being quite

0:23:59as fully fledged get angry Scottish

0:24:01people as other countries i think has a

0:24:05higher ranking and should be brought

0:24:08into the fold before we even have the

0:24:10conversation about state flags

0:24:12yeah but like how many people even live

0:24:14in Wales have to look this up now

0:24:17thank you a hundred thousand people hey

0:24:19they just made the semi-finals of the

0:24:20euro

0:24:21more people live in Wales than Iceland

0:24:23maybe I haven't checked that fact yeah i

0:24:27know i was a whatever whatever we got

0:24:29here well how many people do live in was

0:24:31ok there three million people in Wales

0:24:34oh that's white bigger than Iceland and

0:24:36I should get an emoji that's true

0:24:38iceland you get an emoji but at least

0:24:40they are a fully sovereign nation make

0:24:43them look like they're on the world

0:24:44stage there agree and that's why they're

0:24:46in and why was is not yet but i think

0:24:49what else needs to come in before

0:24:51something even less sovereign like

0:24:53Maryland but the sovereignty matter or

0:24:56does it is the number of that you put it

0:24:57up

0:24:58I'm just saying like we have to start

0:24:59somewhere right it's like okay we're

0:25:00starting with all the sovereign nations

0:25:02ok obviously done although actually do

0:25:04they have all of the flags for the

0:25:05nation's I don't even know I'm sure

0:25:06there's some nation out there that's

0:25:07really angry

0:25:08is there a vatican city flag i don't

0:25:10actually now I wonder but after that I

0:25:12think you have to start looking at

0:25:14populations and that's why I think you

0:25:15have to go with those state flags figure

0:25:17you know California Texas New York

0:25:20there's hundreds of millions of people

0:25:22that live in those states will hang on

0:25:24there are we gonna start having like

0:25:25provinces of China before we have Texas

0:25:27then because they've got more people I

0:25:29can get behind that

0:25:30galloway we've made it clear that the

0:25:32decision is based on sovereignty that

0:25:34decision has been made

0:25:36ok so we did the sovereignty level and

0:25:37then I think after sovereignty then you

0:25:38start looking at like what's the market

0:25:40demand for a California emoji versus a

0:25:45northern ireland emoji

0:25:46okay great i'm on with you then so are

0:25:48you now saying if all the Texans want a

0:25:51Texas emoji with some little tiny state

0:25:54I don't know what's the smallest state

0:25:55in America hadn't even know what's the

0:25:56smallest population like a Wyoming of

0:25:59course when is it OK

0:26:01why me and say there's not much demand

0:26:03from them

0:26:04does that mean they don't get into the

0:26:05emoji but Texas do or because we have

0:26:08one state flag of America we get all the

0:26:10state flags at once you have to do them

0:26:11as a collection right we do them as a

0:26:13collection has 1st argument okay can

0:26:16start with the Chinese provinces do them

0:26:19all as a collection and then move on to

0:26:20the american states there's only so much

0:26:24labor we have in the world to create all

0:26:26of these emoji can you hear that great

0:26:28can you hear that sound

0:26:29what sound is that the scent of your

0:26:31argument crashing down

0:26:32Angie I think it's perfectly solid we

0:26:36have all the nations and then let's

0:26:38start going through everything else in

0:26:39the world by population divisions as

0:26:42sets though haha but i think i did

0:26:45notice in the submission and I could be

0:26:46wrong on this in this submission they

0:26:49were going for Scotland Wales and

0:26:51England but i don't remember saying

0:26:53northern ireland in the submit a seat

0:26:55now it's not even consistent if that's

0:26:56true that is inconsistent maybe it's not

0:26:58true but i did want to quickly ask you

0:27:01because you know we just love talking

0:27:02about flags and this is a classic

0:27:03episode right doors

0:27:05I know how you feel about the Union Jack

0:27:07you think it's awesome how do you feel

0:27:10about the flags of england scotland and

0:27:13in particular White House i love that

0:27:19size just it says to me grace taking

0:27:22this really seriously and you so rarely

0:27:24take me seriously but it makes me feel

0:27:26good

0:27:27it's like you settle again suddenly i'm

0:27:29not i'm not just gonna shoot from the

0:27:31hip on that one

0:27:31this is going to require consideration

0:27:34why shoot-from-the-hip I don't think I

0:27:36shoot-from-the-hip I don't think you put

0:27:38a lot of thought into your answers when

0:27:39i ask you questions about say the black

0:27:41stump I think you I think you just say

0:27:43anything to shut me up but when you go

0:27:45oh I can feel your brain warming up as

0:27:50you start thinking about it and I feel

0:27:54about those various flags I mean the

0:27:57England what makes me kind of sleepy i

0:27:59think the England one is a little boring

0:28:00era you know what I mean that literally

0:28:03get kinda sleepy when I look at it yeah

0:28:04but you know what those really really

0:28:07boring flags like England which is for

0:28:09those who don't know it's just white

0:28:11with a red cross on it right

0:28:12those flags say to me this country's old

0:28:16man this country's seen some stuff

0:28:18because the more boring your flag

0:28:22usually the older you are because you

0:28:24didn't have to do anything complicated

0:28:25because they weren't that many other

0:28:26flags to compete with so when someone's

0:28:29gotta really really boring flag that

0:28:31says to me you got you going to take

0:28:32them seriously man they've seen stuff

0:28:35you can't even imagine like if you're a

0:28:37new country like America it's like I

0:28:38let's just check some stars on there and

0:28:41some struck now more stars more stars

0:28:43we're going to be going to bring this

0:28:44baby up man

0:28:45we got to get noticed was England's like

0:28:48we don't need to be noticed man like

0:28:50where England move just a cross on a

0:28:52white background

0:28:54yeah well yeah well that's all we had

0:28:56when we were making flags stars hadn't

0:28:58even been invented yet

0:28:59yeah and also we couldn't die cloth so

0:29:02that's why i like it i guess i can try

0:29:08to incorporate that into my thoughts on

0:29:10it but it's still just kind of makes me

0:29:11sleepy

0:29:12ok it scotland which is the what's

0:29:15called the South tires enough st.

0:29:17Andrew's cross is that it says here on

0:29:18my google thats altai is another term

0:29:21for st. Andrew's cross okay even though

0:29:23in theory the scottish flag is

0:29:25essentially kinda like the same as the

0:29:27English flag because it's just now a

0:29:28white cross on a blue background

0:29:30I feel like the scottish flag is so much

0:29:32more exciting it doesn't make me sleepy

0:29:33at all looking at it I definitely give a

0:29:35thumbs-up to scottish flag without a

0:29:38doubt yet I I have to agree with you

0:29:39after a great i like the navy blue the

0:29:41background of it i just i think it's i

0:29:43think it's very good color would you say

0:29:44navy blue yeah maybe

0:29:46navy blue is not right navy blues too

0:29:47dark i do not have a word in my

0:29:50vocabulary for the color of blue that

0:29:51the scottish flag is but I feel like it

0:29:53is identifiable as this Scotland black

0:29:56color I definitely like it

0:29:58alright then what do we have here I mean

0:30:00the way I was flag I'm very curious to

0:30:02hear what you think of it I mean you

0:30:04have to talk about the Ulster banner for

0:30:05Northern Ireland well i think in keeping

0:30:08with this submission maybe we should

0:30:09just pretend it doesn't exist

0:30:11ok sorry Northern Ireland we're gonna

0:30:12skip it for today which actually makes

0:30:14sense automatically for a thing that I'm

0:30:16going to show you and ask about so wails

0:30:18I don't know I don't know about the

0:30:21whales flag

0:30:22I'm never quite sure what to think about

0:30:23it because on one hand they have a

0:30:26dragon which takes up most of the flag

0:30:28and dragons are awesome

0:30:30it's hard to argue against dragons but

0:30:33at the same time I'm not really sure

0:30:36that I like that dragon I think for like

0:30:39with many flag designs can suffer from

0:30:42being overly complicated and yet kind of

0:30:46childish at the same time hmmm i have

0:30:50funny mixed feelings about that dragon

0:30:52this is probably the best way to

0:30:54summarize my thoughts in the whales flag

0:30:55the further away from it i am the more I

0:30:57like it

0:30:58the closer I get to the whales flag

0:31:00probably the less i like it i think the

0:31:02word flag is awesome

0:31:03mm but i realized that i probably

0:31:06shouldn't and I realize you probably

0:31:07shouldn't I mean certainly no child

0:31:09could draw because that dragon is

0:31:10incredibly complicated right and you're

0:31:13right it is a weird mixture sort of

0:31:15childish and complicated when I don't

0:31:18know I just I think it's one of those

0:31:19things that's just been part of my life

0:31:21for so long that I kind of ignore that

0:31:23side of a I just think it works just

0:31:25switch the country and I don't know if

0:31:27it's because actually sort of the

0:31:28country or have just been associated for

0:31:30so long in my head that I cannot

0:31:32disentangle them but right this is of

0:31:34course the Association problem at all

0:31:36the flags have for you you're wrapping

0:31:38up your feelings of the nation with the

0:31:41flag itself in a way that's impossible

0:31:42to distinguish yeah and i really like

0:31:45way I was a nobody like Welsh people

0:31:46because I'm not English most English

0:31:48people don't but i'm not actually

0:31:50English of course I'm Australian and

0:31:52because Welsh people hate english people

0:31:54and Australian say English people I feel

0:31:56like they're my brothers

0:31:58Wow

0:32:02leave your comments on the Red Planet

0:32:04some e+ tribalism right there Brady do

0:32:08it

0:32:08it all comes down to sport so i think

0:32:11i'll ask your opinion on is I actually

0:32:14think that the welsh dragon looks better

0:32:17simply as an outline which I've seen in

0:32:20a few design motifs like if you just

0:32:21color the whole thing in his red i think

0:32:24it's interesting and there is a proposed

0:32:27version of the union jack flag which I

0:32:30would like your opinion on which

0:32:32combines the whales flag into it because

0:32:36right now there is no whales iconography

0:32:38on the Union Jack as it stands so i have

0:32:40sent you an image and i'm curious to see

0:32:43what you think of this flag

0:32:44ok now file fail not just because it's

0:32:48too BTW now and too complicated and the

0:32:50Dragons too small but also what great

0:32:53has sent me is essentially the Union

0:32:55Jack with a little tiny dragon right in

0:32:56the middle and it almost puts too much

0:32:59emphasis on the dragon because

0:33:00everything's pointing at her and it

0:33:02spread the center and suddenly makes

0:33:04while seem like it's the center of

0:33:06everything that's a big fail

0:33:09big fail big pile what about you what do

0:33:12you think of that I think it's

0:33:13interesting but it's also one of these

0:33:16things like mandatory voting that I can

0:33:19ever come to a solid opinion on every

0:33:21once in awhile i remember this design of

0:33:22flag with the whales dragon in the

0:33:24center exist and i go back and look at

0:33:26it and I can never quite make up my mind

0:33:27about whether I like it or whether I

0:33:29don't just like with mandatory voting go

0:33:31back and forth forever for 20 years

0:33:33about whether i think it's a good idea

0:33:35or not and i feel that exact same way

0:33:37about this flag you can't mess with the

0:33:40Union Jack pray that's like if you get a

0:33:42mess with that when you stop you don't

0:33:45get me wrong I would never propose that

0:33:47we actually changed to this flag is just

0:33:49a question of do I think this is an

0:33:50interesting design or not but now the

0:33:52union jack is an amazing flag that will

0:33:56hopefully but possibly not live forever

0:34:00I am k to talk to you about Tesla em

0:34:05because we didn't talk about last time

0:34:07but i know you had a ride and in a Tesla

0:34:09for the first time you break your

0:34:10Tessler virginity I want to know what

0:34:12you think about it now you've been in

0:34:14one

0:34:14it's like obviously it's all more real i

0:34:17was wondering if you tell me anything

0:34:18about I haven't asked you on or off the

0:34:20air and I'm really getting to know ya so

0:34:23our mutual friend Marco Arment actually

0:34:27gave me a ride in his Tesla and that was

0:34:32part of my travels this summer when I i

0:34:34went to new york and it just worked out

0:34:36that I happen to be able to possibly

0:34:39meet up with Marco and then he dangled

0:34:41the idea of being able to ride in a

0:34:43Tesla in front of me and I was like sold

0:34:46ok I have to make this happen now so i

0:34:48went up to meet him and yeah we've got

0:34:50to drive around in the test out for a

0:34:51little while and I mean first of all

0:34:54Tesla's are just super cool cars there's

0:34:57no doubt about that like they just look

0:34:58cool from the outside and nice-looking

0:35:00yeah and I had never actually sat in one

0:35:04on the inside and on the inside as well

0:35:06like the test those are just cool

0:35:07everything about them is super sleek I

0:35:10think and one of the things that I

0:35:13wanted to see in the test level were

0:35:15driving around that is hard to get a

0:35:17sense of from just looking at pictures

0:35:19is how does this big screen

0:35:22work in the center because that such the

0:35:24different thing about the interior of

0:35:26that car versus other cars so I kept

0:35:28looking out on the road I guess we're

0:35:30driving around trying to see how does

0:35:31this screen work in my peripheral vision

0:35:33and especially because i am someone who

0:35:37the older I get I find I have more and

0:35:39more motion sickness and cars if I look

0:35:42down and look up even briefly to read

0:35:44those kind of curious to see like if I'm

0:35:46looking at the the window and then

0:35:48looking down the screen looking back up

0:35:49and have to say because the screen is so

0:35:51huge I think it really works on the

0:35:55interior and it was nice to see that

0:35:56they had thought through a bunch of

0:35:58clever design elements about how to

0:36:01control a bunch of things from the

0:36:02steering wheel or sections of the screen

0:36:05that never ever ever changed so that

0:36:07like in the bottom corners you can

0:36:08always have muscle memory for making the

0:36:10car do certain things I think like

0:36:12temperature controls and some other

0:36:13stuff was down there so from the inside

0:36:16I was very very impressed with the Tesla

0:36:19i have to say i quite liked it so marco

0:36:22was showing off the super fast

0:36:25acceleration which I did not like

0:36:27because I don't appreciate the sensation

0:36:29of super fast acceleration that was very

0:36:31impressive as like you can keep showing

0:36:35this off if you don't mind cleaning the

0:36:37interior of your car shortly

0:36:39that's a game you can play if you want

0:36:41to but a bunch of the things that the

0:36:43car does as well just seems so natural

0:36:46like for example that there's no jarring

0:36:49because of gear changing it just seems

0:36:51like this is the way cars should work

0:36:53you don't miss it at all like oh boy I

0:36:55wish this car was really Jenky is it

0:36:57accelerated as it as it tries to

0:36:58manually shift through gears right it

0:37:00doesn't do that at all so that's

0:37:02fantastic

0:37:03and then finally the thing that I was

0:37:05most interested to see was a lot of the

0:37:07self-driving stuff in person

0:37:10yeah and i know that i am the wrong

0:37:13person to evaluate this in some ways

0:37:16because it's a thing that I have a lot

0:37:19of interest and but I felt again like

0:37:22the self-driving stuff was also natural

0:37:25that it was entirely unremarkable there

0:37:29was no moment of like wow I'm in a

0:37:31self-driving car and a lot

0:37:32like watching this thing trying to

0:37:33navigate the highway and stuff is like

0:37:35yeah this just seems natural just like

0:37:37no gear shifts the self-driving stuff it

0:37:39seems like this is just the way car

0:37:41should work

0:37:42this is the way I want these things

0:37:43because it just plod along and it's like

0:37:45it doesn't like change lanes and do over

0:37:47text does or doesn't like how much does

0:37:49it don't sign at the moment

0:37:50yeah so this was one of the things that

0:37:52it was a bit of a funny experience

0:37:53because in the discussion of how soon

0:37:58are self-driving cars coming

0:38:00Marco owning a Tesla and actually using

0:38:04self driving features thinks that I am

0:38:06being overly optimistic about how soon

0:38:08these things are are going to arrive and

0:38:11part of what he wanted to show me in the

0:38:14demo was situations under which it

0:38:16doesn't work or it doesn't always do

0:38:18precisely what you would expect it to do

0:38:20and so he was trying to show me a bunch

0:38:22of this stuff but my experience of

0:38:24sitting in the car was mostly thinking

0:38:25like I think the cars doing pretty well

0:38:27I think that's the only great there was

0:38:29a situation where we were on the highway

0:38:31and he has his hands off of the wheel

0:38:34and the car is driving on the highway

0:38:36and what it does is it stays in its own

0:38:38lane and it tries to keep an appropriate

0:38:40distance from the car in front of it but

0:38:41you can tell the Tesla I would like to

0:38:44turn lanes without actually forcing it

0:38:48to and so the car makes a decision about

0:38:50whether or not it's going to change

0:38:51lanes and so marco was able to

0:38:54essentially put the car in a situation

0:38:56where he told it to change lanes but the

0:39:00car wouldn't even though there was

0:39:02nothing blocking the way right like the

0:39:04test low clearly thought that there was

0:39:06some reason it shouldn't change lanes

0:39:07even though everything was fine like a

0:39:08human driver would think it was okay and

0:39:11I was looking at that thinking yeah like

0:39:13that's a mistake like the car should be

0:39:15changing lanes but it's not but if the

0:39:17thing is overly cautious like I can

0:39:20hardly fault it

0:39:21yeah I mean it's a pretty amazing thing

0:39:23it's like God has parted the Red Sea and

0:39:25people are complaining that the sand is

0:39:26still a bit damp yeah hello my feet are

0:39:28getting wet

0:39:29yeah i mean i would be remiss therefore

0:39:33to not now bring up the fact we did have

0:39:34her first death

0:39:36yeah in a Tesla this obviously has

0:39:38crossed your radar at Tesla had a crash

0:39:40while in this auto drive mode and a lot

0:39:43of people said I was great say about

0:39:45that

0:39:45so what's great about that well it had

0:39:49to happen didn't that

0:39:50yeah that's exactly its it was

0:39:52absolutely inevitable that somebody you

0:39:55would die eventually in a Tesla and I

0:39:59think the very fact that that is a news

0:40:01story goes to show you how I think this

0:40:04is incredibly rare and i forget what the

0:40:06numbers are but Tesla came out with the

0:40:07numbers but like how many millions and

0:40:09millions of human miles have been driven

0:40:11in the autopilot system and now we

0:40:13finally have one person has died

0:40:16to me this stuff is always just a

0:40:17question of there's some group of people

0:40:21who think it needs to be perfect before

0:40:23people start using it and i am not in

0:40:26that group

0:40:27my only question is is it better than

0:40:29human drivers and again like the Tesla

0:40:31can't drive point-to-point there's lots

0:40:33of things they can't do there's lots of

0:40:35ways it's kind of cheating so like one

0:40:36of the things marker showed me that I I

0:40:38didn't know is that on local roads where

0:40:41the Tesla is clearly much more uncertain

0:40:44about turns and speed limits and all the

0:40:46rest of this it has a kind of cheating

0:40:48mode where it'll follow a car in front

0:40:51of its on local roads in situations

0:40:54where it seems like it couldn't self

0:40:56drive itself and I thought that's

0:40:57interesting

0:40:58this is a case where yes on a local road

0:41:00it is much more limited and it does way

0:41:02better on a highway so again this stuff

0:41:05isn't self self driving but it's like I

0:41:08really feel like it's gonna be better

0:41:09than human drivers very shortly

0:41:12yes people will die but you know

0:41:15horrific numbers of people died on the

0:41:18roads right now so when people sent via

0:41:21Twitter and a whole bunch of other ways

0:41:23like oh my gosh what do I think about

0:41:24someone dying in a Tesla like well I

0:41:27don't really think about it very much i

0:41:29just i just do not think it matters i

0:41:31don't think it's an important news story

0:41:33in anyway when do you disagree with that

0:41:36now i don't actually I i greatly i mean

0:41:38i don't want to sort of fire up the

0:41:41cheer pressure or have you know have

0:41:43people pylon and I know there's all this

0:41:45debate about the incident itself but if

0:41:48it was caused by the fact that the

0:41:50camera and the computer couldn't tell

0:41:51the difference between the white side of

0:41:53the lorry and the white sky that is

0:41:56quite a motive it's quite a good scare

0:41:58story you know

0:41:58and if it is the case i hope they fix it

0:42:00but I kind of agree its peak cliche but

0:42:04you know people died in plane crashes

0:42:06all the time it doesn't stop is flying

0:42:07and things like that so I think it's not

0:42:10like a big deal but this move to

0:42:13self-driving cars is less of a

0:42:17technology battle and more of a battle

0:42:19for hearts and minds

0:42:20I have to say I've come to your way of

0:42:22thinking you know I always thought this

0:42:24was further away in the future then you

0:42:26did and I now think it's closer

0:42:29it just seems to be all happening so

0:42:30quickly now so many trials so many

0:42:33implementations in sort of real-world

0:42:35environments that I thought was a bit

0:42:37further down the road it's already

0:42:38happening so I'm sort of thinking great

0:42:41was right on this one I think this is

0:42:42gonna happen quick now a question I have

0:42:45for you because you are much more

0:42:47plugged into the news than I am because

0:42:49my only experience of hearing about the

0:42:51story is people individually contacting

0:42:53me about it but i'm willing to bet like

0:42:58this story's not gaining a huge amount

0:43:00of traction it is a news story and of

0:43:04course like that the news is filled with

0:43:06anomalous events like that basically

0:43:08what the news is a collection of things

0:43:10that are unusual but is this gaining

0:43:13lots of traction like our people super

0:43:14concerned or is this just yet another in

0:43:17the endless stream of news stories that

0:43:19just washes by that nobody really cares

0:43:21about two weeks later it happened a good

0:43:23time for Tesla because there's so many

0:43:25other massive things happening in the

0:43:27world of the moment that in the fight

0:43:29first news time and coverage it probably

0:43:31didn't get as much as it could have a

0:43:33fair bit of a break like you know and

0:43:35it's still coming up and still being

0:43:37brought up in articles and i'm still

0:43:38seeing around the place like when you

0:43:40say it's a battle for hearts and minds

0:43:41I'm not even convinced that that's the

0:43:43case I feel like there has been a real

0:43:45silent shift in people's thoughts on

0:43:49self-driving cars i have a feeling that

0:43:52much much more of the population feels

0:43:55that

0:43:55oh this is just a thing that's coming

0:43:56and I don't bet that this is going to be

0:43:59like a a big story that causes problems

0:44:01for Tesla in the long run i have a hard

0:44:05time imagining that's going to be the

0:44:06case I think you're I think the only

0:44:08thing that's gonna hurt

0:44:09tesslar and the other people advocating

0:44:12self-driving cars will pay a spite or

0:44:15like some kind of glitch where three or

0:44:18four happen in the same way so i think

0:44:20you're right i think the one-off hasn't

0:44:22hurt him really badly and I want to get

0:44:24her if there's some systemic problem is

0:44:27there anything you didn't like about the

0:44:28Tesla well it was funny because when i

0:44:30was sitting in the car and we're driving

0:44:33along the road

0:44:34I'm thinking wow everything in this test

0:44:35seems amazing like I love this future

0:44:37space car i wish i could have any reason

0:44:40to buy one right there like no real

0:44:42always I could have reason to buy 1i

0:44:44asked Marco the same question I said is

0:44:47there anything about this car that you

0:44:49don't like and he had a couple of minor

0:44:53just likes about it but overall he

0:44:57seemed really really happy with the car

0:44:59as well and so I feel like I had nothing

0:45:02in particular to say like oh I didn't

0:45:03like this about the car struck me as

0:45:05totally wrong and the owner of the car

0:45:07had a few complaints but nothing I can

0:45:09even remember at this at this later

0:45:11point of being like oh wow that's a

0:45:13really good point like that that is that

0:45:15is a really annoying feature that I

0:45:16wouldn't have thought about it wouldn't

0:45:17have realized until I own it is like

0:45:19nope everything about this car seems

0:45:21amazing so two thumbs up for Tesla this

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0:47:13hello to let a glue know that you came

0:47:16from us you do some corners i see we

0:47:20have a paper cut corner here

0:47:22oh yeah Brady's paper cup there's a lot

0:47:26of sport going on in the world

0:47:27environment gray oh boy there always

0:47:30seems to be an idea isn't there always

0:47:32sports there should always be sport

0:47:34because people love sporting events so

0:47:37there should always be sporting events

0:47:38going on right yeah but we've been

0:47:40there's been a rich vein just lightly

0:47:42okay anyway anyway likes always up there

0:47:45so everyone saying to me

0:47:47arto gray about Iceland the euros or

0:47:49whales at the euros or tell them about

0:47:51this or tell him about that and there's

0:47:54no point doing that now that i'm not

0:47:56going to do that I don't think you are a

0:47:59few nations that have had unexpected

0:48:02success in the euros does not compare

0:48:04into my mind with the amazing story that

0:48:06is Leicester City just cause I brought

0:48:08up that list a city story i'm not going

0:48:09to bring up every underdog story that

0:48:11happens in sport on the podcast because

0:48:13gray will probably stop being my friend

0:48:15yeah very likely imagine i have just as

0:48:19much patience for this stuff as your

0:48:20wife would get some somewhat but not an

0:48:25infinite well ok it's so all the sport

0:48:29i've been watching lately in the media

0:48:30coverage lately has brought up two

0:48:32things there's two things I've noticed

0:48:34that get

0:48:35I go to annoy me ok so i thought i'd

0:48:38bring them up one is when it's

0:48:42commentators and pundits and people

0:48:44telling the story of sport talk about

0:48:47getting revenge for banishing memories

0:48:50and I think there's a real inequality in

0:48:52it that shows how much they live in the

0:48:54moment let me give you an example say

0:48:57two teams play in the world cup final

0:48:59against a liberia plays China the world

0:49:03cup final ok right and left it at ya and

0:49:06Liberia win right the next time those

0:49:09two countries made and it could be in a

0:49:11lesser tournament and it could be like

0:49:13in the quarterfinals and this time China

0:49:17win commentators always say they got

0:49:20their revenge they banish the memories

0:49:22of that world cup loss and they finally

0:49:24got their revenge on liberia by beating

0:49:27them there is not revenge

0:49:30the only way you can get like total

0:49:33revenge for a sporting loss is to have

0:49:38an equivalent game like another world

0:49:40cup final and this time win that's the

0:49:43only way you can erase the memory or get

0:49:45them back or square the ledger but

0:49:48because sports people always want to

0:49:49hype up the current game by the way say

0:49:52this game is a chance to get revenge for

0:49:54that previous game it is not revenge if

0:49:57it is not the same tournament at the

0:50:00same level meeting someone in a

0:50:02quarterfinal four years after you lost

0:50:05in the final that's not revenge and

0:50:09noise me I thought you were going to say

0:50:11the only way for China to get revenge in

0:50:14this scenario would be to take over an

0:50:16axe liberia clothes and let me tell you

0:50:20what revenge is revenge is wiping

0:50:22liberia off the face of the earth right

0:50:25does does taking turns winning a game

0:50:27you're playing with each other

0:50:29is there any way that they can even

0:50:30remotely count as revenge

0:50:32no it cannot know what I mean that's

0:50:35there that would be guide the other way

0:50:37I think the whole premise of of even

0:50:39revenge in a sporting event doesn't make

0:50:41any sense even if the games are

0:50:43equivalent it still doesn't make any

0:50:45sense at all like you're playing a game

0:50:47with each other and

0:50:4811 and then someone else one as will

0:50:51inevitably happen

0:50:53revenge is something that you plot

0:50:55stealthily for four years and like you

0:50:57spring upon your opponent when they have

0:50:59no idea what's going to happen as

0:51:01opposed to a thing that takes place

0:51:03within a rigid and ordered system that

0:51:06has rules that we all agree on

0:51:08I don't think the concept of revenge

0:51:10makes any sense in this whole arena

0:51:13well okay maybe you don't like the word

0:51:14revenge but there's just there's this

0:51:16whole thing about squaring the ledger

0:51:18you know getting them back for the

0:51:19defeat and say you defeat us in this

0:51:22game now we defeated you everything even

0:51:24my say everything is not even if the

0:51:27game is not the same importance but

0:51:29commentators don't seem to realize that

0:51:31they want to hype up the game they're

0:51:32talking about i'm sure they totally do

0:51:34realize it but they're doing what you

0:51:36did precisely what you're saying they're

0:51:37just trying to hype it up it's just like

0:51:39the news Brady right they know a lot of

0:51:41the stuff that they're talking about is

0:51:42dumb and won't matter in a week what

0:51:44they want to hype it up so that it feels

0:51:45like it's really important right now

0:51:47don't you agree with that analogy is a

0:51:49bit of that moving right along and the

0:51:52other thing that's really getting on my

0:51:54nerves at the moment in especially in

0:51:56the world of sport but i know it

0:51:57pervades all media is this thing

0:52:00everyone does where they use three words

0:52:04and they punctuate it is a lot of sport

0:52:07my twitter feed and say someone scores a

0:52:09goal in a game sports ball will be this

0:52:12tweet from some supposedly reputable

0:52:14organization usually the BBC suddenly

0:52:17writing like some tane vlogger and they

0:52:20will say what I go all capitalized which

0:52:25I hate because that's like the internet

0:52:27equivalent of shouting and the only a

0:52:28full stop after every word 14 stop a

0:52:33full stop and go our man that knows me

0:52:37it & noise that may apparently there are

0:52:42there are forums and things dedicated to

0:52:44people who hate this but this is this is

0:52:46really getting me at the moment do you

0:52:47are you familiar with this it's becoming

0:52:50give a me thing to do isn't it to sort

0:52:51of have these three punctuated words to

0:52:54add emphasis this is just people trying

0:52:56to communicate on the Internet with the

0:52:58limited bandwidth that you have for

0:53:00twitter i have not seen

0:53:02it's in particular maybe this is a a

0:53:04sporting thing that will eventually

0:53:06bleed over into my internet as well it

0:53:09happens in politics as well a bit i

0:53:11think and sports and politics the two

0:53:13things i followed so closely so no i

0:53:15have not seen these on my twitter

0:53:16timeline when this episode comes out I'm

0:53:19going to tweet brand full stop new

0:53:21all-star episode perfect hashtag hello

0:53:25internet right and you know what let's

0:53:28see if just like click reading headlines

0:53:30are you we get tremendous traffic from

0:53:32that we try to get sweet retweet it all

0:53:34over the place people go nuts for it

0:53:36right because that's that's probably why

0:53:37people are doing this that people like

0:53:39it

0:53:39alright everyone go ahead send me your

0:53:41three-word tweets and i'll block you

0:53:48tell you what what are we going to keep

0:53:52classical on here great you gonna let me

0:53:53keep going as always I feel like the

0:53:56first half three-quarters eighty percent

0:53:58of the show is always somehow like out

0:54:00of my control

0:54:01yeah and then i'll let you drown on for

0:54:0320 minutes at the end what I have a

0:54:04little nap exactly like it one little go

0:54:06on is like no Brady just throwing out

0:54:08topics are hosted let's do that like

0:54:10this ok go with this

0:54:11maybe we'll cut that mean we won't who

0:54:13knows right just go go you stop with the

0:54:15little one with you're like ooh can I

0:54:16try this is like whatever man I with

0:54:18this stage you're just gonna go with it

0:54:20so what do you want to do next in our

0:54:23classic episodes

0:54:25what do you think is going to happen

0:54:25next well you know what the most

0:54:27requested corners of Oh even you must

0:54:30know this plane crash corner

0:54:33you said it all right is there a plane

0:54:37crash that you want to talk about i do

0:54:40want to talk about a plane crash but

0:54:41first of all I want to tell you that I

0:54:43flew for the first time by the way I

0:54:46haven't said but I'm in San Francisco

0:54:48Department and you're back in England

0:54:50yeah like it's like we're alternating

0:54:51between episodes we essentially past

0:54:54each other like ships in the night one

0:54:56going to and one coming from California

0:54:58so yeah we already did we are now in the

0:55:00opposite positions again recording with

0:55:04of course California's fantastic time

0:55:07zone shift which makes everything super

0:55:08convenient but I flew in the and I think

0:55:13it must have been the first time I fly

0:55:14in one in

0:55:15the 787 boeing 787 dreamliner oh the the

0:55:21Tesla of the skies maybe and maybe I'm

0:55:25overstating the case of it there but it

0:55:27is super high-tech I don't have been on

0:55:29one but the thing that blew my mind was

0:55:31the windows in this plane

0:55:33are you familiar with the windows in the

0:55:35Dreamliner I've heard of this plane i

0:55:37have never been in one I've never really

0:55:39looked it up I'm just pulling up some

0:55:40pictures now but what's up with the

0:55:41windows because from the outside at

0:55:43least they look like normal windows

0:55:45yeah they're a little bit bigger than

0:55:46normal but also they have in them

0:55:50this electric gel so there's no shutter

0:55:53that you pull up and down is just

0:55:54buttons underneath and you press buttons

0:55:57and it tense the window to different

0:56:00levels depending on your setting and

0:56:02also it puts this strange Hugh in the

0:56:04windows so if you're flying in the

0:56:06middle of the day I happened to fly in

0:56:08the middle of the day from England to

0:56:09California which can be quite

0:56:11disorienting and not that good for your

0:56:14body but it cast this like a bluish hue

0:56:17across the windows for most of the

0:56:19flight so kind of like night outside

0:56:21like the Sun that like the moon and all

0:56:24the landscape had this blue he look to

0:56:26it like it was nighttime and I felt like

0:56:27it was night it was amazing

0:56:30so you could still look out the window

0:56:31and see like the terrain below but you

0:56:33felt like you were looking over the us

0:56:35at night and then if you went and found

0:56:37a window that didn't have this on it was

0:56:39like broad daylight so it was really

0:56:41cool it was a really nice gimmick we

0:56:43could individual people turn on and off

0:56:46the blue fact is that something that was

0:56:47under your control as the window-seat

0:56:49person i'm not entirely sure but the

0:56:52impression I had was you could control

0:56:54yourself at certain times and at other

0:56:56times I think they took control of it so

0:56:59that you couldn't have one idiot

0:57:00streaming the cabin with bright light

0:57:03while everyone else was trying to sleep

0:57:04on my flight to America I was the 180

0:57:06where the window over didn't realize

0:57:10that the flight attendant came over and

0:57:11gave me a hard starting to look like a

0:57:14sir everybody else in this cabin is

0:57:15asleep watching closure window goes

0:57:17sorry I'm trying to work anyway that's

0:57:19not my plane crash thank goodness

0:57:21because i was on that line right right

0:57:22about us

0:57:23let me give you a plane crash corner and

0:57:25this is something that made the news a

0:57:27little while ago now

0:57:28and I didn't bring it up because we

0:57:31haven't done a podcast was so long and

0:57:32we talked about lots of other stuff but

0:57:34this caught my attention because also

0:57:36has told me something about myself which

0:57:38I want to ask you about the end

0:57:39first of all let me tell you the story

0:57:40you like this because it's got an

0:57:43obscure pompous name i want to tell you

0:57:45about operation an upper part of our I'm

0:57:50sure my pronunciation is incorrect

0:57:51because this is an Incan God of

0:57:53knowledge and basically to start from

0:57:56the beginning there was a flight on

0:57:58january the first in 1985 Eastern flight

0:58:02980 and this was a flight that was going

0:58:05from Paraguay to miami and i was going

0:58:07to stop in a couple of other places on

0:58:09the way this is in 1985 1985 okay I

0:58:12trust me trust me gray okay we're

0:58:14getting there are going there

0:58:15alright take my stick with me through

0:58:17this journey there hold my hair it will

0:58:19all make sense at the end

0:58:20ok this plane with 29 people on it i

0:58:25think it was 19 passengers and 10 crew

0:58:27which is quite high ratio of crude

0:58:29passengers actually suffered what is

0:58:31called a safe it crash

0:58:33this is a controlled flight into terrain

0:58:35which i think is a lovely way of saying

0:58:38it flew into a mountain

0:58:40ok and it flew into this mountain called

0:58:44Mount allamani in Bolivia and it hit the

0:58:47mountain at a height of about 6,000

0:58:49meters and I think to this day

0:58:51that's the highest ever see if it

0:58:52crashed has been ok the highest

0:58:54appliance ever been when it flew into a

0:58:55mountain everyone died so this is

0:59:01obviously quite hard spot to get to but

0:59:02they did send investigators and a little

0:59:04piece of side trivia here that the lead

0:59:06investigator they sent was a guy called

0:59:08Greg Feith or five and anyone who

0:59:12watches air crash investigation my

0:59:13favorite TV show will know this guy

0:59:15because this is like the talking head

0:59:17that they bring in to talk about every

0:59:19plane crashes like the dialer quote sort

0:59:21of guy who is quite a well-known crash

0:59:23investigators that he was cold in they

0:59:25went up the mountain is covered in snow

0:59:27the debris was all over the place it was

0:59:30like a huge crash site

0:59:32everything was smashed to smithereens AC

0:59:34they couldn't find anything particularly

0:59:36useful and they left 1985 they didn't

0:59:40find the flight recorders

0:59:41right okay why at this mountain in 2006

0:59:46some of the wreckage started revealing

0:59:49itself because snow was melting in those

0:59:51glasses and rocks and stuff moving

0:59:52around some of the wreckage started

0:59:54revealing itself again now what happened

0:59:57was there were these two guys cool down

0:59:59and eyes

0:59:59and eyes

1:00:00that I think they're from what Boston or

1:00:01messages somewhere and they read about

1:00:05this and they sound like my kind of guys

1:00:07because they're interested in plane

1:00:10crashes and they're interested in

1:00:11mountains and they saw that the flight

1:00:14recorders had never been found and they

1:00:17looked at other crashes where flight

1:00:18recorders haven't been found in this is

1:00:20quite a few of them most of them a deep

1:00:22underwater but this one obviously isn't

1:00:24this one's on land so this year just

1:00:27recently they decided to go on like an

1:00:30adventure holiday to this mountain to

1:00:33try and find the crash site and try and

1:00:36find the flight recorders from this 1985

1:00:39crash I can't believe you haven't

1:00:42combined your interests of mountains and

1:00:45plane crashing to do this exact same

1:00:47adventure but that's what I'm talking

1:00:49about

1:00:50I'm I I can't believe I didn't think of

1:00:52it so i said these dudes are legends so

1:00:56they've gone to this mountain in bolivia

1:00:59in a place that sounds like it's not

1:01:01without challenges various sorts and and

1:01:04I've got a few people to help them

1:01:06they've gone up this mountain they found

1:01:09this crash site and they're all the rock

1:01:11and the crevices and everything and have

1:01:12started finding bits of metal and i

1:01:14think i spent three or four days there

1:01:15and on the final day they've turned over

1:01:18a piece of metal which turns out to be

1:01:21orange on the other side which is the

1:01:22color of black boxes and lonely enough

1:01:24as everyone knows black boxes are range

1:01:26of course and it's got this cable offers

1:01:29saying cvr cockpit voice recorder and

1:01:32they find part of the flight recorder

1:01:34and I find some magnetic tape as well

1:01:36which is probably what was in the

1:01:37recorder and some other bits and pieces

1:01:39and I doubt they're going to get much

1:01:41from it because I happen in 95 but

1:01:43they've brought this stuff back in the

1:01:45hope of maybe finding out more about

1:01:47what happened to this crash but i just

1:01:49think it's amazing that these two dudes

1:01:51who are like just dudes have said and

1:01:54let's go to wear that crash up enough

1:01:55that mountain in Bolivia and see if we

1:01:57can find the flight recorder that all

1:01:58the investigators didn't find and they

1:02:00go there and they find out that is great

1:02:05i love it when people just do a thing

1:02:07it's not say the intersection of these

1:02:10interests it's amazing to me that that

1:02:11you have

1:02:12not considered doing this before but i

1:02:15think there is a market in going to

1:02:19famous plane crash sites i mean there is

1:02:22i know for I know for effective one

1:02:24famous plane crash I also in South

1:02:25America that people do too is to this is

1:02:28the one where the plane crash happened

1:02:29from the film alive whether people spent

1:02:32months and months with their wreckage in

1:02:34the mountains and they ended up eating

1:02:36the dead bodies of people who died in

1:02:37the crash to stay alive and then I got

1:02:39rescued as you always time later you

1:02:41familiar with the scratcher yeah I think

1:02:42I saw the movie alive

1:02:44yeah as I really famous and people do go

1:02:46on tourist trips to the site where that

1:02:48happened but really they don't yeah you

1:02:52can I was that was looking at the

1:02:54internet looking at the prices are you

1:02:56ready because it because it's in the

1:02:59mountains as well you know i love

1:03:00mountains so it's you know it's got

1:03:02everything got mountains it's got drama

1:03:05and it has everything I think the dream

1:03:08want to go to for me if they mount

1:03:10erebus in Antarctica where a plane

1:03:14famously crashed because they're you're

1:03:16going up a mountain

1:03:17you've got a plane crash site and it's

1:03:20Antarctica i don't know i don't even go

1:03:22there

1:03:23so what's gonna happen here Brady I mean

1:03:24I are you are you trying to tell me

1:03:25slowly and gently that you're going to

1:03:27incorporate a mountaineering stroke

1:03:30plane crash cornering tourists

1:03:33businesslike is to have put your next

1:03:34venture is going to be that started it

1:03:37sounds like that's what you're working

1:03:38toward like I'm not working towards it

1:03:41the thing I wanted to bring up the

1:03:43reason i found this interesting was when

1:03:45i first heard about this I had a bit of

1:03:48a reluctance to read about it because

1:03:50they had a blog and stuff like that and

1:03:51i think that with the journalist so

1:03:53there's obviously more stuff to come but

1:03:54I was initially a little bit reluctant

1:03:56to read about it and this is a feeling i

1:03:59often have that I want to see if it's

1:04:01just may with other people have this but

1:04:03I sometimes don't enjoy reading or

1:04:07watching about other people's cool

1:04:09adventures because i think well that's

1:04:12their cool adventure and I'm not having

1:04:14that so why do I want to watch them

1:04:17doing something awesome i want to do

1:04:19something awesome and my wife doesn't

1:04:21understand this like quite often she now

1:04:23understands that because it's what I'm

1:04:25like but freaks

1:04:25apple if there's a documentary like

1:04:27Michael Palin goes and does a great

1:04:30travel show through the Himalayas she's

1:04:32like let's watch that would be so

1:04:34inspirational and you'll see so much

1:04:35amazing stuff and and I'm like I don't

1:04:37want to go and watch Michael Palin have

1:04:39a cool adventure in the Himalayas not

1:04:41good for him

1:04:42I'm you know that's that's him having an

1:04:44awesome time that's not me having an

1:04:46awesome time so I really very often

1:04:49don't like watching travel shows because

1:04:51i feel like i just want to watch someone

1:04:54else doing something cool i'd rather

1:04:56spend my time doing something called

1:04:57myself is that weird

1:05:00I i'm not going to say it's weird

1:05:03because I'm talking to you like I think

1:05:07I can understand why you wouldn't want

1:05:10to do that but I i can say that it's

1:05:14abnormal there's no way that it's not

1:05:18abnormal

1:05:19yeah i guess because those television is

1:05:21so popular so obviously lots of people

1:05:22right because the exactly most people

1:05:24want to watch those kinds of things they

1:05:25want to sit in the comfort of their own

1:05:27home and watch somebody else have an

1:05:29adventure isn't that exciting to see

1:05:31somebody else do this thing is it

1:05:32entertaining to see somebody else go on

1:05:34an adventure

1:05:34I definitely not unless it's something i

1:05:36can't do you like go to the moon right

1:05:38but that is not my attitude so when I

1:05:40first heard about this operation thought

1:05:42up with dan and I zeg my first instinct

1:05:45was what I don't want to see that

1:05:46because they just having the coolest

1:05:47adventure and I could have done that and

1:05:49now i'm going to be thinking why i doing

1:05:51that but this was just too cool that I

1:05:54had to look and these guys are clearly

1:05:55legends for doing this

1:05:57so that's a cool story they've got a

1:05:59blog and read about it i've done a cool

1:06:01thing playing Crash mountains living the

1:06:04dream

1:06:04if you did a TV adventure like some TV

1:06:08station contact you and i we're gonna

1:06:11hook you up with a traveling the world

1:06:13amazing adventure thing we're going to

1:06:14film and we're going to make a

1:06:15documentary about it right after it was

1:06:18done and over

1:06:19would you want to watch your own

1:06:22adventure on TV

1:06:23yeah okay watching that because that's

1:06:25like my holiday photos okay yeah okay so

1:06:30that's what it is

1:06:31so you wouldn't feel like I don't want

1:06:33to watch me having an adventure i

1:06:34already had that adventure I want to go

1:06:36on the next

1:06:37I don't know that's not that i did a

1:06:38video when i went to every space camp

1:06:40where a boiled water all these different

1:06:41attitudes a video of yours I love by the

1:06:44way I'm gonna put that in the show notes

1:06:45I I think there's something fantastic

1:06:48and beautiful about that video it's one

1:06:51of my favorite things that you've ever

1:06:52done is that video thank you that's

1:06:54really kind and and I don't watch my

1:06:56videos back very often but there is one

1:06:58of my videos that maybe once every six

1:07:00months or I will watch again and enjoy

1:07:03it just as as watching it but i don't

1:07:06think i would enjoy watching someone

1:07:07else do it

1:07:08well maybe maybe i would enjoy someone

1:07:10else doing that because I've been there

1:07:11but I find it hard to watch other people

1:07:14having really amazing adventures I'm

1:07:16happy for them

1:07:17I don't not want them to have a good

1:07:19time and have those adventures I think

1:07:20it's brilliant but it's just like

1:07:22watching it just frustrates me I'm not

1:07:24our that's something I should be doing

1:07:26that looks awesome

1:07:27so for clarity's sake it's not any kind

1:07:29of envy for you you don't envy them

1:07:32their experience you just feel like you

1:07:35should be having the adventure I think I

1:07:36kind of do in Viet em but I don't

1:07:38begrudge them at like I don't like that

1:07:40but I'm not upset that they're having

1:07:42i'm happy that they're having it but i

1:07:44guess it only applies to things i could

1:07:45conceivably do like for example I don't

1:07:48mind watching Andy Mary win Wimbledon

1:07:50lift the trophy I'm not thinking damn my

1:07:52darling remember what happened like

1:07:54because I get that I can't win bored so

1:07:56i watch that right there i was there

1:07:57trying to close in on like what are the

1:07:59edges of this thing and it's a fiction

1:08:02doesn't seem to be like you're fine with

1:08:03watching fiction because it's not real

1:08:05and you don't you like I should be

1:08:07saving middle-earth I think that you can

1:08:09do about it

1:08:10Nona I don't know exactly what it means

1:08:13that's why bring it up

1:08:13I don't completely understand well

1:08:15obviously it means that you must be

1:08:16having adventures all the time if this

1:08:18is the way you feel about it

1:08:19of course yeah i mean i should i'd love

1:08:21to have obviously i'm not most of the

1:08:24time i'm sitting around editing videos

1:08:26and donuts but I find that not an

1:08:31enjoyable use of my time watching other

1:08:33people have not holidays the holidays

1:08:38for her because I wouldn't enjoy

1:08:40watching other people have nice probably

1:08:43is either that sounds like terribly

1:08:45boring television

1:08:46and also it's like a totally different

1:08:48kind of thing

1:08:50yeah whereas i'll happily watch somebody

1:08:53have an adventure i'll happily watch all

1:08:56of that's survival shows where people

1:08:58slowly starved to death over the space

1:09:00of a month like great i'll turn that on

1:09:03for entertainment any day of the week

1:09:04but someone having a holiday know that

1:09:05sounds terribly boring I mean I love a

1:09:07good documentary about someone like

1:09:08climbing a mountain like proper

1:09:10mountaineering like you know something

1:09:12happening on k2 and stuff like that but

1:09:14how is that different than watching a

1:09:15documentary because i can't do that

1:09:17ok so i can't do that you can climb k2

1:09:19differently not okay i don't have ever

1:09:24said before but the summit on netflix

1:09:27about people climbing k2 is the best

1:09:29mountain documentary I've ever watched

1:09:31you should watch that gray it's the best

1:09:33one if I could only watch one as you

1:09:35watch that one if you only watch one

1:09:36mountain thing ever watch the summit is

1:09:39on netflix make it really good

1:09:41watch it man what you you watch it will

1:09:43talk about okay all right note made I've

1:09:45watched it three or four times but i'm

1:09:48not watching Michael Palin drinking tea

1:09:50and having a nice time with people as he

1:09:52walks through the Himalayas one other

1:09:55thing if there was like we have to do in

1:09:57a classic classic episode huh is well

1:10:01you call the bi-weekly way in about the

1:10:05heads

1:10:06this is what you wanted to do it's more

1:10:09of a health plan i don't want to do this

1:10:11but that's how a classic episode if we

1:10:13do if we don't do that healthgrades

1:10:15health corner where he smugly tells me

1:10:17how awesome he is now how i'm still

1:10:18super unfit is that how this works is

1:10:21that others ever worked with that your

1:10:24personal resentment or maybe it's like

1:10:28watching a documentary I don't know what

1:10:29your documentary about how great

1:10:30becoming really healthy

1:10:32okay i love this

1:10:36you don't want to do it the trying to

1:10:38make me look bad which is still gonna

1:10:40bring it up as a corner

1:10:42ok so sure sure what do you want to talk

1:10:44about in the hello Internet semi-random

1:10:47sometimes we talk about health of

1:10:49Brady's in the mood or we're doing a

1:10:50classic episode corner but say the thing

1:10:55i'm wondering i guess is you know you

1:10:56reach to target white and everything was

1:10:58good and you did a great job

1:11:00haha like what have you done since have

1:11:02you like kept like the same regime or

1:11:05was your age I am able to now change to

1:11:06keep a steady weight or did you wait go

1:11:08up like since you can't have hit your

1:11:10target and everything was good

1:11:13what's been your course of action sense

1:11:15i mean it's interesting because I just

1:11:17came back from spending a month in

1:11:19America ok

1:11:21flatland overhead yeah that'd land us a

1:11:24population large right just so difficult

1:11:27here

1:11:28it simply never liked everything

1:11:30everything in America is incredibly

1:11:33delicious and and so good and all i can

1:11:36say is when I go to America thing i

1:11:38always think of now is thank God at

1:11:39least i'm not in the south which is like

1:11:42America's America or anywhere for

1:11:44everything is just amplified again with

1:11:47deliciousness that was like ok at least

1:11:49i'm just in California and only have to

1:11:52deal with that level of how good all of

1:11:54the food is before you tell me about

1:11:56what's happened since she came back from

1:11:57America

1:11:58I mean I have in California and I'm in

1:11:59Berkeley which is like you know trendy

1:12:01healthy place to do but even here it's

1:12:03difficult I was in safeway last night

1:12:05and I just fancied some cookies so I

1:12:08went to the cookies section and I just

1:12:10wanted a few cookies and I went to build

1:12:12this huge table where they said all the

1:12:14cookies i could not find a box of

1:12:17cookies that they were selling that had

1:12:19less than 30 cookies in a baby it wasn't

1:12:22an option

1:12:23I just like I just want to buy like two

1:12:24or three of those cookies but you

1:12:26couldn't you could only buy these huge

1:12:28huge clear boxes full of cookies and

1:12:31then i went there is this pizza place

1:12:33right near where I'm staying called

1:12:35cheese board which is really famous

1:12:36that's really nice pizza and I went

1:12:39there the other night and I was lining

1:12:41up in the queue because it's always a

1:12:43huge queue for the pizza but it was

1:12:44nearly closing time and when I got to

1:12:46order my pizza i did the discipline

1:12:49thing and i ordered only half a pizza

1:12:51because they always throw you a few

1:12:53extra pieces beyond what you order

1:12:55anyway it's like a tradition

1:12:57ok that's interesting that they always

1:13:00do it so i knew i was gonna get half a

1:13:01pizza plus two or three slices so I said

1:13:04can I have half a pizza place and cause

1:13:06it was near closing time and they still

1:13:07had lots of pieces because they only

1:13:09make one flavor pates and they just turn

1:13:11them

1:13:11and that's just what you have to have

1:13:12that day so when I want a half a page so

1:13:15they said no problems gave me a whole

1:13:18pizza in the Box gave it to me and then

1:13:21just as I was about to walk away he went

1:13:22to me and said I by the way and he gave

1:13:24me a second whole piece here's another

1:13:26one what I tried to do the right thing

1:13:28and other half a pizza and I walked away

1:13:31with two bases and I'm on my own I just

1:13:36I was just a lonely guy walking back to

1:13:38my head baby with all places people just

1:13:42shaking their heads look at me look at

1:13:45that date look look at that date to

1:13:47paint his body leading to a page is my

1:13:50friend definitely need to buy several

1:13:53drinks like a six-pack of soda just so

1:13:55it looks like you're bringing supplies

1:13:56to party

1:13:57it's just like oh here's me with my two

1:14:01pizzas and my one diet cokes it's really

1:14:04clear 1001 right you need camouflage

1:14:10drinks to cover that

1:14:12yeah just holding your phone to ear even

1:14:15though you're not using the same yeah

1:14:16I'll be there in a minute guys

1:14:18yeah keep the party going yeah so anyway

1:14:24you're back from fat laughs yeah but i'm

1:14:26laughing as well because it does my

1:14:27experience in California and feel like

1:14:28nobody handed me two pizzas with a wink

1:14:30and a smile but I i did have this

1:14:33feeling that I always going to be way

1:14:34easier in California at least need to

1:14:36eat healthier because they're a bunch of

1:14:38hippies

1:14:39it's like you know what it's still so

1:14:40hard and even the healthy stuff comes an

1:14:42enormous portions and when you're

1:14:45surrounded by everything else like it do

1:14:47i really want to go to like granola bar

1:14:49nor do I want to go to ihop like I want

1:14:52to go to ihop that's what I wanted to do

1:14:53it's just so hard

1:14:56ok so the interesting thing here is we

1:14:59sort of touched upon a while ago that i

1:15:02had been changing some of my morning

1:15:04routine with like print and getting

1:15:06coffee in the mornings and doing a bunch

1:15:08of stuff and over time I eventually kind

1:15:12of stumbled upon the realization that

1:15:15breakfast is an optional meal if you're

1:15:20mentally prepared for that

1:15:22which is interesting thing to kind of

1:15:23realize in my life that all of my life I

1:15:27have always thought if I don't have

1:15:28breakfast things will be just absolutely

1:15:30terrible but over the past several

1:15:33months i have slowly learned that

1:15:34breakfast is optional as long as I'm

1:15:38psychologically prepared for that fact

1:15:40when I get up in the morning that i know

1:15:42i'm going to skip breakfast so don't

1:15:45even try its stomach and we're going to

1:15:47eat later we're going to eat at lunch so

1:15:49this is this is a piece of information

1:15:50that I kind of discovered about myself

1:15:52over time and one of the things that I

1:15:56decided when I was going to fat land USA

1:15:59was that i was going to intentionally

1:16:02skip breakfast in the morning for the

1:16:06entire time that I was there because i

1:16:08thought at the very least this will be

1:16:11some kind of damage minimization process

1:16:14because i am a man who loves his

1:16:18breakfast and America is a land that

1:16:20does breakfast really well and so I

1:16:23thought I'm just going to take this out

1:16:24as an option to try to reduce calorie

1:16:28intake and much to my surprise even

1:16:32though I wasn't super great about eating

1:16:34stuff in America especially during

1:16:35conference time when you keep meeting up

1:16:37with people like everywhere you go

1:16:39you're meeting someone for a meal and

1:16:40you're eating something or I just fine

1:16:43when I'm like drained from talking with

1:16:45people all the time like I just really

1:16:47want to eat something to kind of pick up

1:16:48my energy I was kind of crap with the

1:16:50food but I think skipping breakfast

1:16:52really worked because miracle of

1:16:54miracles i came back from America a

1:16:56single pound heavier after on earth

1:16:59which I felt like was a tremendous

1:17:01tremendous victory great you've cracked

1:17:05than that my I got to give it to you

1:17:07have done

1:17:08yeah i mean not to gloat in your face or

1:17:11anything but i'm still under 200 pounds

1:17:14I'm 199 again like America just nudged

1:17:17me ever so slightly over 200 pounds i am

1:17:20again back under under 199 so that's

1:17:23that's where we are for the bi-weekly

1:17:25not bi-weekly at all when living you're

1:17:28living the finish on 5,000 dream except

1:17:31there's one thing if we're ever going to

1:17:33bring back

1:17:34the occasional bi-weekly way and

1:17:37actually talking about health corner

1:17:38which I have let go because as someone

1:17:41once told me if you love a biweekly way

1:17:43and you have to let it go and if it

1:17:44comes back then it was meant to be so

1:17:46I'm never gonna push anything but i will

1:17:49say the one place that I have

1:17:50consistently and frustratingly failed is

1:17:54with the running like I have still not

1:17:58been able to run a complete 5k without

1:18:02doing a significant portion of it

1:18:05actually walking and it's weird because

1:18:08I haven't given up the running i just i

1:18:11i find that I've gone for stretches of

1:18:14not doing it and so then I'm not in

1:18:16shape to do it and I kind of have to

1:18:17start over with the program and so that

1:18:20is a place where I have definitely

1:18:21fallen down on it so like just throwing

1:18:25it out there but you know we could

1:18:26always do something with the running

1:18:28because I do feel like being on the

1:18:30public hook it's helpful and you seem to

1:18:33be much better at the running that I am

1:18:34I didn't bring my running game with me i

1:18:36know i went for a run the other morning

1:18:38and I just started I wanted to get to

1:18:39the bay to the most from where I'm

1:18:41staying

1:18:42which is a bit of a crowd so I was

1:18:45running and running and it ended up

1:18:46being further than I expected and took

1:18:48me longer than i expected to get there

1:18:50and so eventually I got to like the

1:18:52waterfront and thought oh this is nice

1:18:54but I'd gone so far I was like are now

1:18:57i'm really really far from home so I got

1:18:59in the neighborhood that's there that's

1:19:02totally fair

1:19:03it does feel a little bit sad when

1:19:04you're riding gear you getting into back

1:19:06to where you started

1:19:07but added a fair and i have to say that

1:19:09even when I'm and fit and I am unfit i

1:19:12am able to still run it does remind me

1:19:14of something I think this is the nicest

1:19:17thing anyone has ever said to me and

1:19:18this is something my wife said to me

1:19:19when we were in Bhutan we did a couple

1:19:22of like long walks up mountains and

1:19:26stuff and my wife to really fit person

1:19:28much go to the gym all the time and

1:19:30she's in great shape and and we were

1:19:32climbing up these mountains and

1:19:34sometimes I was doing at that strongest

1:19:36here sometimes i'll be walking in front

1:19:38of her and I'm not fit em and like I

1:19:40wouldn't be drinking water and I just

1:19:42soldier on up the hill

1:19:43even though i'm struggling i just keep

1:19:45going and she did say to me at one

1:19:48point you just have so much grit like

1:19:51you shouldn't be able to do this but

1:19:53you're just a stubborn and that you just

1:19:54keep going like that case the heart is

1:19:57nice thing I was that did you turn to

1:19:59you and say you're hard as nails now she

1:20:01would never say that i like the word

1:20:03grit she knows I'm not fair but I just

1:20:05have like this stubbornness that even

1:20:07though my body shouldn't be able to do

1:20:08it and I'm just like well I'm not

1:20:10stopping who swims so writings never

1:20:14really a problem but you're right maybe

1:20:15running is the case for me and for you

1:20:17as well maybe like you know we'll come

1:20:19up with some kind of robbery maybe we'll

1:20:22have a race one day

1:20:23yes maybe this is the thing that we can

1:20:24revisit I'm not gonna pressure anything

1:20:26i will never mention it I will you know

1:20:27I'm just a letter go button era with a

1:20:30gay

1:20:31we've done a biweekly way in health to

1:20:32sometimes occasionally corner so I think

1:20:35we've ticked most of the boxes for a

1:20:37classic episode i think we have as well

1:20:39are you happy ready yeah this episode of

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1:22:18for supporting the show there is one

1:22:21thing we have to talk about our do we

1:22:23have to do we have the top of rabbits

1:22:26I think we kind of do I kind of don't

1:22:29want to either but i think they kind of

1:22:30have to

1:22:31there's been so much happening in like

1:22:34in the world of like elections and

1:22:35politics and stuff em but the big one

1:22:38and i'm getting asked about all the time

1:22:40since arriving in America m is the UK

1:22:43brexit vote the referendum about whether

1:22:46or not the UK was going to stay in the

1:22:49european union or leave the European

1:22:50Union you out of the country for this

1:22:52won't you

1:22:53yeah i was out of the country i was at

1:22:57VidCon when the the vote actually

1:22:59happens or when the results came in

1:23:01again because the confusing timeline it

1:23:03was late in LA and suddenly I started

1:23:06getting messages from people and

1:23:07realizing like all right everybody is

1:23:09waking up in the UK right now two votes

1:23:11having been counted so that's where I

1:23:13was when it occurred and if you are

1:23:16listening on the planet Mars and don't

1:23:17realize the UK voted i think it was a

1:23:2152-percent voted to leave the European

1:23:24Union yeah was 52-48 to leave the

1:23:27European Union quite a high turnout was

1:23:30in the seventies I think percentage

1:23:32turnout so quite strong turnout

1:23:34yes awesome comparisons it's like the

1:23:36highest voter turnout in decades for

1:23:38anything

1:23:38not only is just like the the number of

1:23:40voters high but it's that the percentage

1:23:42of the possible electorate was also an

1:23:45unusually high for the election so tons

1:23:47of people turned out so that you go

1:23:49supposedly the UK is now going to leave

1:23:52the European Union yeah maybe it's just

1:23:55so many people want to talk about it but

1:23:57it's one of those things as well like I

1:23:58haven't been following the details Super

1:24:00closely like when it was first announced

1:24:04and when I was in LA I did kind of

1:24:08follow the news for a while but it was

1:24:10his paintings because i was supposed to

1:24:12be at some party I was being a grudge

1:24:14alike

1:24:15this party is really loud I don't want

1:24:17to be here it's hard to talk to people

1:24:18and then suddenly when news starts

1:24:20rolling and it's like wow news seems

1:24:22like a much more attractive option so

1:24:24just like left and sat down on Twitter

1:24:27for a while trying to read through news

1:24:29stories and see like what what's going

1:24:30on with breakfast like as the results

1:24:32were actually coming in because at first

1:24:34it was it looks like this is the way

1:24:35it's going to happen and then and then

1:24:37it really did become official so I kind

1:24:39of followed it right at the start and

1:24:42then i have only heard some of the major

1:24:46beats of this that have occurred in the

1:24:48past two weeks but as you might expect

1:24:50with things like I haven't been

1:24:52following it super super close everyday

1:24:53I mean since that happened the British

1:24:56politics is like just like exploded like

1:25:00it's been crazy but I don't think that's

1:25:01particularly what most people would like

1:25:03to hear about because that's probably of

1:25:05more interest to the British people but

1:25:08it's like it has been my house of cards

1:25:10since because obviously the Prime

1:25:11Minister resigned and then there's been

1:25:14all sorts of Machiavellian imaginations

1:25:17going on and like stuff you couldn't

1:25:19make up and everyone's resigning and

1:25:21stabbing everyone in the back and you

1:25:23couldn't make it up but I guess that's

1:25:25kind of the fallout the result itself i

1:25:28mean we surprised we placed is what you

1:25:32expected

1:25:33are you disappointed do you have any

1:25:35feelings about what happened

1:25:37I mean well if you go back and listen to

1:25:39our episode where we talked about this

1:25:41before it occurred

1:25:43I feel like I'm i probably have a lot of

1:25:47the same feelings like I made it pretty

1:25:49clear in that episode that my position

1:25:51is that it would be better for the UK to

1:25:54stay in and that was your position as

1:25:56well and also the thing that we talked

1:25:58about at that time was it's a very hard

1:26:02thing to discuss in any meaningful way

1:26:05and yeah

1:26:07part of the reason that i haven't

1:26:09followed the politics super closely this

1:26:11time around is because I feel it's it's

1:26:12the same thing again like when I look

1:26:14into what's going on with practice it is

1:26:17ok we did this vote people voted

1:26:20there's there's a clear outcome from the

1:26:22vote like that is not in any amount of

1:26:24uncertainty but what happens next

1:26:27first it seems like it's the same

1:26:30problem again who knows like there's no

1:26:32details there's no procedure there's no

1:26:34plan

1:26:35there's no prime minister to enact

1:26:37anything I know the people who fought

1:26:39for have all left the ship

1:26:42it's like people set fire to the house

1:26:44and then walked away yeah i mean what

1:26:46you're describing there is it's like the

1:26:47leader of you Kip resigned as it has

1:26:50been a whole bunch of other things about

1:26:51like people who were prominent breaks it

1:26:54cheerleaders yeah I don't want nothing

1:26:55to do with it after gonna actually

1:26:57evidence which I don't think is any kind

1:27:00of like real surprise in some ways but

1:27:04it doesn't mean that that at the time of

1:27:06recording we are in this position where

1:27:08it is just a total struggling shoulders

1:27:12hands up in the air emoji about what is

1:27:14actually going to occur like what's

1:27:17gonna happen it is unknown

1:27:19I mean what do you think what do you

1:27:21think well you know obviously I have

1:27:24trepidation about speaking about

1:27:26politics in a public forum because

1:27:28people feel so strongly about it and

1:27:31most people are pretty entrenched in

1:27:32their positions

1:27:33yeah and you could say I'm interested in

1:27:35my position so you like it's not like

1:27:36you're going to persuade anyone of

1:27:38anything you're either just going to

1:27:39have people agree with you or get angry

1:27:41at you

1:27:41it's not really a discussion but i'll

1:27:43talk about 1500 people who follow me on

1:27:45twitter probably know what I think about

1:27:47me because after we spoke about on the

1:27:49podcast probably in the last week or two

1:27:51before the vote itself

1:27:54I've started to feel more strongly about

1:27:55em and I really hoped that we would stay

1:28:00as part of Europe em and I started

1:28:03following the debate a lot more closely

1:28:04and a lot of a lot of things happened in

1:28:06the last week or two before that device

1:28:09which you know we don't need to go into

1:28:10all the details but I hoped we would

1:28:12stay now all the people i'm friends with

1:28:14think the same as me on facebook and a

1:28:16lot of my twitter feed and let so so I

1:28:19was surrounded by a lot of reinforcing

1:28:21comments where everyone was saying we

1:28:23have to stay we're going to stay it's

1:28:24all great

1:28:25so if you were to look at my facebook

1:28:27feed it would be inconceivable to that

1:28:29the vote would go the way it did

1:28:31yeah and that this is a total phenomenon

1:28:33that everybody experiences yet

1:28:34politically is yes

1:28:36it doesn't matter what election for what

1:28:37event just the way people naturally sort

1:28:40themselves

1:28:41elves you are almost certainly going to

1:28:43find yourself in a situation where the

1:28:44vast majority people you know and or

1:28:46follow online agree with you and so your

1:28:49results seem surprising but I was not

1:28:51supposed to be surprised and I was a

1:28:53little bit surprised but not trying to

1:28:54spice because luckily for me I have a

1:28:57diverse and a range of friends that I

1:28:59have a few friends from different parts

1:29:02of England to me who felt the opposite

1:29:04and I would occasionally see posts from

1:29:06them and I'd be like really you really

1:29:08think that and I would sometimes go

1:29:10clicking off down those rabbit holes and

1:29:12into their worlds of friends and

1:29:15suddenly I was saying how different

1:29:16fades and whole different worlds where

1:29:18was overwhelmingly the other way and my

1:29:21way of thinking wasn't represented at

1:29:22all so it was kind of a wake-up call for

1:29:25me that

1:29:26hang on a second this is a this may well

1:29:28go the other way and of course it did go

1:29:31the other way and I I'm really

1:29:33disappointed by and I feel like a parent

1:29:37it's almost like I'm not angry just

1:29:39disappointed but I am also i am also a

1:29:42little bit a little bit angry about it

1:29:44but I kind of feel a bit helpless about

1:29:45and i have cooled down quite a lot since

1:29:47the week or two after the debate but i

1:29:49just think it was such a wrongheaded

1:29:52decision by so many people and it's

1:29:57almost like I'm just like I feel a bit

1:29:59cringey that I'm surrounded by so many

1:30:00people em that think in a certain way

1:30:03that I don't think and you know I

1:30:05respect their right and they won the

1:30:06vote so so good for them although

1:30:09funnily enough all those people who I'm

1:30:11friends with who were like let's leave

1:30:13let's leave have gone very quiet since

1:30:15because I think I laughter I do think

1:30:17it's true that a lot of them perhaps

1:30:18didn't think they'd win or it would be

1:30:21different and I think a lot of people

1:30:22are a bit shocked and I've spoken to

1:30:24some of the month but a few relatives

1:30:26actually young relatives who I spoke to

1:30:28and I said officers are you voted to

1:30:30leave did you like why and they're kind

1:30:32of like our deny I kind of regret it now

1:30:35that i am saying a lot of that and there

1:30:37is this sort of pervasive media story

1:30:40that's coming across the everyone

1:30:41regrets their vote

1:30:42I don't actually think that's true i

1:30:44think it's probably more all the people

1:30:46like me kind of still in our bubbles

1:30:48telling yourself that everyone regrets

1:30:50how they voted yeah they probably don't

1:30:52yeah

1:30:53completely agree i I've seen a few of

1:30:54those stories and I think that they are

1:30:56they are frankly horrific Lee unfair

1:30:59anecdotal evidence

1:31:01yes I grand and I great and also wishful

1:31:03thinking almost certainly on the part of

1:31:05the people reporting them

1:31:06yes I think there was a lot of wishful

1:31:07thinking going on in the in the fallout

1:31:09from the people who lost and you know

1:31:12then they lost but what's going to

1:31:14happen what's gonna happen now kind of

1:31:16baffles me

1:31:17I mean as I've said before I think

1:31:20personally it's probably not that bad

1:31:21for me

1:31:22mhm I I do a lot of my work in America

1:31:24so sort of the plunging pounds and the

1:31:26pound has immediately plunged yeah and

1:31:28the economy has immediately started

1:31:30tanking but everyone said that wouldn't

1:31:32happen and it was scare mongering like

1:31:34everyone thought these countless

1:31:36professionals that was saying would be

1:31:38really bad for the economy which is

1:31:39scaremongering and within sort of an

1:31:41hour after the economy gotta be plunged

1:31:45but you know that's not terrible for me

1:31:47i hope i actually think the people who

1:31:50are going to be hurt the most

1:31:52I probably a lot of the people who voted

1:31:54to that if funnily enough you know the

1:31:57world will keep turning and everything

1:31:59will work out

1:32:00I don't think leaving the European Union

1:32:02is going to look like what the people

1:32:04who want to leave the European Union

1:32:05thinks it will look like basically i

1:32:08think we will leave the European Union

1:32:09but all of the concessions and

1:32:13compromises and things that have to be

1:32:14done are going to result in a situation

1:32:16where everyone is unhappy

1:32:18hmm because we have to stay in the

1:32:19common marker and then they're not going

1:32:21to let us stay in the common market of

1:32:22Europe without the free movement of

1:32:24people and it's the free movement of

1:32:26people that I think a lot of the leaves

1:32:28were against but the free movement of

1:32:30people wasn't part of the referendum

1:32:31question the referendum question was

1:32:33just should we leave the European Union

1:32:35so I think we're going to leave this

1:32:37governmental body but all of the

1:32:39compromises that are going to be

1:32:40necessary to preserve the UK economy are

1:32:43going to result in all the leaves being

1:32:44unhappy anyway

1:32:45mm but who knows i could be wrong I have

1:32:48no idea now have this kind of i was

1:32:51going to go along for the ride

1:32:52yeah it's interesting actually kind of

1:32:55okay talking about brexit now because it

1:32:57does feel like this is a moment after

1:32:59all of the passions have passed

1:33:01so this morning when I knew we were

1:33:03going to record the podcast and we were

1:33:06inevitably going to talk about this

1:33:07topic I was sitting down and trying to

1:33:09prepare for it and thinking like what

1:33:11are my thoughts on this like now that

1:33:13time has passed

1:33:15let me try to think about this and the

1:33:17only way that I could come up with

1:33:19how do i want to think about this is to

1:33:22be a bookmaker on the odds of what is

1:33:25actually going to occur there was no

1:33:27other way that I could kind of think

1:33:28about this in a sensible way and would

1:33:32you have listed is one of what i see is

1:33:36like three options for what can occur

1:33:38when you have described where the UK

1:33:41leaves the European Union but unlike a

1:33:44technicality but stays in something like

1:33:48the DEA like the european economic area

1:33:51or something similar like that i think

1:33:54of that as the non exit brexit yeah

1:33:56which is where bragging but on a total

1:34:01technicality that that the end result of

1:34:04what is going to happen is that the UK

1:34:06just gives up a bunch of Rights it keeps

1:34:08free movement of people it keeps paying

1:34:10into the European Union and like from a

1:34:13normal citizen on the street perspective

1:34:16all seems the same like people who live

1:34:18in Europe can come move to the UK people

1:34:21in the UK can go move to Europe and as

1:34:23we discussed in the last podcast like

1:34:24immigration was a huge issue i give the

1:34:28non exit brings it in my mind a

1:34:30fifty-five percent chance of happening

1:34:34I i think that that is the majority

1:34:37likelihood that this is what's going to

1:34:40occur and just as just as you were

1:34:42saying when i was writing up my notes

1:34:43this to me

1:34:44strikes me as the most pure of a

1:34:47compromise right because in a compromise

1:34:49everyone's unhappy in some manner right

1:34:53like that compromises and like okay

1:34:55great

1:34:56the pro-european people are going to be

1:34:59unhappy because now the UK has no say

1:35:02enough here for union is governed has

1:35:05absolutely no leavers to pull to try to

1:35:08institute any reforms in the european

1:35:10union and then the people who wanted to

1:35:13break sit there going to be on

1:35:14happy because this situation almost

1:35:17certainly addresses literally nothing

1:35:20that they cared about in their voting

1:35:22right at least trying to imagine and

1:35:24looking at looking at the things that

1:35:26break there's were complaining about

1:35:27like this address is nothing so I really

1:35:31think that that's like the fifty-five

1:35:32percent chance non exit breaks it is is

1:35:35the thing that occurs everybody is on

1:35:37happy to some extent but it means that a

1:35:42lot of the economic concerns that we

1:35:45currently see happening with businesses

1:35:47and with the strength of the pound and

1:35:48investment and construction and all of

1:35:50this stuff in the UK all of that stuff

1:35:52doesn't care like it'll just keep

1:35:54trucking along as normal with a non eggs

1:35:57at breakfast and allows some of the pro

1:36:00bricks at people whether they're leaders

1:36:02or voters to sort of save a bit face

1:36:03that's exactly it is a face-saving

1:36:05manure

1:36:07perhaps it is the worst most self-harm

1:36:11inflicting space-saving maneuver that

1:36:13has ever occurred

1:36:14I great but it allows them to say we

1:36:17have achieved victory in exiting here be

1:36:20needed

1:36:20what have you accomplished we gave all

1:36:22of our voting rights in the EU and

1:36:24nothing else

1:36:25that's not that's not a good thing

1:36:27that's terrible

1:36:28there's one group that will claim that

1:36:30as a victory right and they're the

1:36:31people who talk about sovereignty mm and

1:36:36I could have a lot to say about those

1:36:37people venue I white and they will say

1:36:40yes but we're now the masters of our own

1:36:42destiny and yeah

1:36:44not only is that like a little bit

1:36:46deluded yeah but it was really

1:36:47beautifully put buy aticle that Ben

1:36:49Goldacre right before the vote saying

1:36:51that a lot of these terms that were used

1:36:53in the campaigning like let's be masters

1:36:55of our own destiny a hollow meaningless

1:36:57statements that you see on the cover of

1:36:58self-help books and like airports and

1:37:01like what does that even mean

1:37:02now we control our own destiny like what

1:37:05like let's let's take control like that

1:37:08believe in yourself written yeah exactly

1:37:12yeah it's like there are a small number

1:37:14of people that if that we go down this

1:37:16path will claim

1:37:17yes but now we're in control of our own

1:37:19destiny well no you're not and in fact

1:37:21you probably less in control because

1:37:23you're still at the whims of market

1:37:25forces like everyone in the world except

1:37:27now

1:37:28there's one Leslie that you have access

1:37:30to it exactly that you know your pain

1:37:31later so it's totally 1984 style less

1:37:35say is more control right that's what

1:37:38that result ends up practically being

1:37:40the other kind of marking it out

1:37:44thing is I i put that my next most

1:37:47probable event is at thirty-five percent

1:37:50i think that literally nothing changes

1:37:54that the government takes the hardline

1:38:00short-term option of just totally

1:38:03ignoring the non-binding referendum of

1:38:06of saying we're just not going to do

1:38:08this and I think that option has some

1:38:13really really terrible consequences but

1:38:17i don't see it as a as an impossibility

1:38:19I mean to be clear here I go just to get

1:38:22this on record like while I am on the

1:38:25side that lost in this argument there is

1:38:29no doubt that there was a huge voter

1:38:32turnout and people voted to leave

1:38:35yep and simply choosing to do something

1:38:38like ignore the referendum like even

1:38:40though it was non-binding like it was

1:38:42not sold to people as non-binding if

1:38:45you're not going to be able to stand up

1:38:48and explain that this thing had the

1:38:50legal power of an opinion poll and get a

1:38:52happy result from people who were like

1:38:54okay well then you know whatever

1:38:56no harm no foul on this one unless it's

1:38:58true that everyone regrets there like

1:38:59which I don't think it is but if that

1:39:01was true everyone much is quietly put it

1:39:03out between their legs and let's just

1:39:05pretend that never happened but there

1:39:07are a few cases in recent years across a

1:39:10whole bunch of European countries where

1:39:11they have had votes of the people in

1:39:14relation to things to do with Europe

1:39:17where the will of the people has been

1:39:19subsequently been ignored or

1:39:20circumvented like it's becoming

1:39:21increasingly long list but nothing quite

1:39:24so dramatic as a vote to leave the union

1:39:28all together and I think you're right

1:39:29ignoring it would be a big deal but for

1:39:31people who don't know to leave the

1:39:33European Union a vote has to be

1:39:35conducted by the Parliament all the mp's

1:39:37in the parliament the majority of whom

1:39:39don't want to leave the opinion

1:39:41and I required to put up their hand or

1:39:44vote through the the right lobby to say

1:39:46yes we're going to leave so they're

1:39:48going to have to vote against their own

1:39:50will and follow the will of this

1:39:52referendum and funnily enough the

1:39:53referendum was all about protecting the

1:39:55sovereignty of the UK Parliament fact

1:39:57that all of a sudden the Parliament

1:39:59which we fought so hard to project

1:40:00sovereignty of where representatives

1:40:01they're deciding the future of the

1:40:03country and then going to have to vote

1:40:05against what they want to vote because

1:40:08of a huge pole it's an interesting

1:40:10dilemma but but it would be very hard

1:40:12case for any MP to say well I didn't

1:40:16vote for it even though there was this

1:40:17result of this referendum so it's a

1:40:19reel-to-reel pickle

1:40:21yeah but not even like always the real

1:40:23pickle there's no way that the

1:40:25Parliament just ignoring the referendum

1:40:27is anything other than anti-democratic

1:40:29there's there's no way that that's not

1:40:32true like the people voted to leave and

1:40:35then if Parliament says a forget it

1:40:38we're just going to ignore this

1:40:40it's but the people also voted all of

1:40:43those MPAs to represent them in the

1:40:45parliament the people democratically

1:40:47elected them to do that right and that's

1:40:49actually where the true sovereignty of

1:40:50the UK lies in the parliament and in the

1:40:53MPs who were elected by the people so

1:40:55they're also they also have a democratic

1:40:57job to do to vote for things on behalf

1:41:00of their constituency and I mean we

1:41:02haven't got demographics which

1:41:03constituencies so we don't know they

1:41:05don't know what their particular people

1:41:07want necessarily so there is a clash

1:41:10between the two forms of democracy here

1:41:12and I know it's sort of you know

1:41:13splitting hairs and it's the way for the

1:41:15losers to get out but it is also really

1:41:17legitimate concern about how this form

1:41:21of democracy works well it is an

1:41:23interesting question about the nature of

1:41:25representative democracy

1:41:27let's assume that the majority of MPs do

1:41:31not think it is a good idea for their

1:41:33constituents if the United Kingdom

1:41:35leaves the European Union delicious use

1:41:38that as a starting point for a

1:41:39conversation but at the same time you

1:41:42have direct democracy where the people

1:41:45themselves have voted to leave

1:41:48what is the correct decision for a moral

1:41:53member of parliament if they did

1:41:55agree with the democracy of what to do

1:41:58like I think there's no good way out of

1:42:00that they would have been a good way out

1:42:01of it i don't have this possible i

1:42:03mention is that what the Parliament

1:42:05could have done was passed a law that

1:42:07the result of the referendum was binding

1:42:10before the referendum happened but they

1:42:12didn't do that and i almost think they

1:42:14deliberately didn't do that

1:42:16this is kind of my theory about why do I

1:42:20think there's a thirty-five percent

1:42:21chance that literally nothing happens or

1:42:23fifty five percent chance of the non

1:42:24exit brexit which leaves like an

1:42:27eighty-five percent chance that

1:42:28essentially from the average citizens

1:42:31perspective

1:42:32nothing changes is that was at ninety

1:42:34percent uh I've had enough of that in

1:42:36these numbers are frightened I yeah I

1:42:38have a feel for the proposed yes that's

1:42:40exactly it like is it you know the these

1:42:43numbers their number ish present maybe I

1:42:47mean 45% not exactly but whatever eighty

1:42:49ninety percent chance nothing happens

1:42:51just like when i try to think about the

1:42:52future and I'm thinking about you know

1:42:54how soon are electric cars going to come

1:42:56or you know something else that's on the

1:42:58horizon like how soon is genetic

1:43:01manipulation technology like when i try

1:43:03to think about what changes in the world

1:43:05I think you always have to try to look

1:43:07at it from the perspective of things

1:43:09like economic demand which I always

1:43:12place a lot of value on and you have to

1:43:13look at the trend lines of where things

1:43:15are going to occur and you also have to

1:43:18look at like what what does the current

1:43:20institution in power think of this and

1:43:23how much power do they have to

1:43:24accelerate or prevent this thing and I

1:43:27look at the whole brexit situation and I

1:43:29can't help but think that anyone I i

1:43:33think that a lot of the stuff that

1:43:34occurred in that election was

1:43:37politicians probably pandering to the

1:43:42leave voters for their votes partly

1:43:46because of the way that the the UK

1:43:47government kind of does the

1:43:48first-past-the-post voting splitting

1:43:49thing I think a lot of that kind of

1:43:52prominent people who make a career on

1:43:54being anti the European Union there are

1:43:57a lot of people who might quite enjoy

1:43:59the position of being against a thing

1:44:01and so of course they want the thing to

1:44:04continue to exist and in their heart of

1:44:06hearts might recognize that it's

1:44:07actually

1:44:07but there's like a political miche of

1:44:10being the opposition and so for example

1:44:13like I think with newspapers and stuff

1:44:15or even with the UK government in

1:44:16particular they always love to blame the

1:44:18EU for everything because it means is

1:44:21there's always someone to pass the buck

1:44:22on to write like always never actually

1:44:24our fault it's always somebody else's

1:44:26fault at a political level there's that

1:44:28and other personal level there's blaming

1:44:30immigrants are people from other

1:44:32countries for your problems

1:44:34I think that happens a few levels at one

1:44:36level you blame the bureaucrats there's

1:44:38one group of people who just hate those

1:44:39bureaucrats and programs and then

1:44:41there's another group of people that

1:44:42want to blame immigrants because they're

1:44:45not happy with their lot in life and I

1:44:46think maybe people are taking their jobs

1:44:48or they're changing their culture for

1:44:50the worse

1:44:51so there's a few different levels going

1:44:53on yeah there's definitely a few

1:44:53different levels that so what I want to

1:44:55be clear here is I don't think that the

1:44:57people who voted for breakfast it were

1:44:59in sincere but I can say that I doubt

1:45:03the suspicions of a lot of the political

1:45:05leaders who were promoting brexit I i

1:45:09doubt in their heart of hearts like what

1:45:10did they actually really want and what I

1:45:13think that they might have wanted was a

1:45:14close loss right person but so that they

1:45:18can say oh you know we we fight for you

1:45:21Rex its you skeptics we fight for you

1:45:23like vote for us i think that that's

1:45:25their ideal outcome and then when you

1:45:28add on top of that what I think of as

1:45:30looking looking at the economic

1:45:31situation and we now have definite

1:45:34evidence like the global market and the

1:45:36local economy does not like brexit right

1:45:41this is a thumbs down on breakfast at

1:45:43least in the short run for what does the

1:45:46world economy think about this situation

1:45:48hmm and so I look at and I say okay one

1:45:50the people who are in power who are in

1:45:54the position to actually change things i

1:45:58think most of them don't want anything

1:45:59to change

1:46:00and secondly I think there's a huge

1:46:04economic pressure to not change so when

1:46:07I look at those two things that's why I

1:46:10only put like a ten fifteen percent

1:46:12chance on breaks it's in the way people

1:46:15who voted for breakfast and think of it

1:46:17actually occurring

1:46:19complete withdrawal build a wall exactly

1:46:22shaft right hey I think there's there's

1:46:24very little chance of that happening

1:46:26because the people holding the levers of

1:46:29power don't want it to occur kind of

1:46:31like the embodied corporations out there

1:46:33don't want it to and curly like what I

1:46:35imagine is is happening right now we're

1:46:37talking

1:46:38is that maybe somewhere somewhere in the

1:46:40government there is a room in which

1:46:42politicians and prominent party backers

1:46:46and companies and banks are all in a

1:46:48room leaning a tremendous amount of

1:46:51pressure on some poor sod to be the

1:46:54scapegoat for this whole thing we know

1:46:56we just want someone to take the fall

1:46:58for why brexit isn't going to occur

1:47:00because all of the interests in this

1:47:03room don't want it to occur and you can

1:47:05that'd be great but how can look how

1:47:08does that manifest itself

1:47:09well I'm not a details man i'm just an

1:47:11idea i right I don't know what that

1:47:14looks like it could only be like a prime

1:47:15minister that refuses to do it but then

1:47:17now have to fall on the sword and then

1:47:19the pressure will be on the next prime

1:47:20minister do it which is kind of what

1:47:22happened

1:47:22also there's a possibility of having an

1:47:24early election in the UK

1:47:26yeah which is more difficult to do but

1:47:27it is still possible to do and i just

1:47:30think that the various powers that be do

1:47:32not want this to occur and in a

1:47:35situation like this if I have to put my

1:47:37money down on who is going to win this

1:47:40fight the powers that be that I

1:47:43speculate do not want this to occur or

1:47:46the people who voted in a referendum who

1:47:49again to be clear democratically one

1:47:52that it should occur

1:47:53I don't put my money on the people in

1:47:55that scenario i put my money on the

1:47:57establishment in that scenario getting

1:47:59what it once was a super rational gray

1:48:01think about that do you think that's

1:48:02good do you think that's like wrong

1:48:04because i had a base level feels wrong

1:48:07does not like you know the people

1:48:08democracy the will of the people should

1:48:10be but like super rational dude like you

1:48:12might think

1:48:14actually that's probably a good outcome

1:48:15that the people the people don't always

1:48:17know what's best for them

1:48:18yeah so again like this morning is the

1:48:20first morning I actually give some

1:48:21serious thought to this and my

1:48:24conclusion is that it is wrong it is

1:48:27wrong for the government in this

1:48:30scenario two

1:48:31ignore the will of the people I I don't

1:48:34think there's any argument against that

1:48:36but i am on the other side like I don't

1:48:40think Rex it is a good idea and so this

1:48:43is a case where a thing might occur for

1:48:45the wrong reasons that in the long run

1:48:48is better but that still doesn't really

1:48:51justify the like our democracy we're

1:48:55just gonna throw it out the window right

1:48:57now so the way the way I look at this is

1:49:00like there are no good directions to

1:49:03take i got i think in the long run it's

1:49:06probably better for the UK to stay part

1:49:08of the EU but to do that requires the

1:49:11government to kind of subvert its own

1:49:14process as like well all we have is the

1:49:18process that like if you start walking

1:49:20down this road of Oh laws like you know

1:49:23we use them when we like them but we

1:49:24don't use them when we don't like but

1:49:26what's happened now like this is all we

1:49:27have to keep the world together

1:49:29I mean that looks legitimate way around

1:49:31that I guess it sounds stupid even

1:49:33saying it would be like a revote like a

1:49:35are you sure vote like and then see if

1:49:38yet same result

1:49:39I know how crazy that sounds but that

1:49:41would not subvert the process at least

1:49:43it would be like it could be we want to

1:49:46be more clarification and the questions

1:49:48could be a bit more detail this time and

1:49:49that could be used as a mechanism to

1:49:51withdraw the decision if the people want

1:49:53to withdraw the decision which maybe

1:49:55they don't legally and technically that

1:49:59would possibly be one of the cleanest

1:50:01solutions that like you said before the

1:50:04UK says look we're going to have another

1:50:06referendum and this one is immediately

1:50:09legally binding or they say we're going

1:50:12we're going to keep having referendums

1:50:13until you for anyone but that but that's

1:50:15exactly the problem though it is but I

1:50:18like you suspect that the original

1:50:19referendum was written to be non-binding

1:50:22and again all of the parties including

1:50:25you keep and the Conservatives agreed on

1:50:27the fact that it was a non-binding which

1:50:29leads suspicions to me like they don't

1:50:30want to go the wrong way but and so that

1:50:33that to me just like well maybe you can

1:50:34have another one that's legally binding

1:50:36but it's just there's no way it doesn't

1:50:37look awful to do that has like no we're

1:50:41just gonna keep voting until we get what

1:50:42we want it's like well that's a terrible

1:50:44democracy

1:50:45it's a terrible way to do things I just

1:50:48find it very interesting that there is

1:50:50no good outcome

1:50:53I don't know that there's a thing that

1:50:54almost feels like bayesian statistics

1:50:55about this to me which is as you add

1:50:58additional pieces of information about a

1:51:00problem like it certain unlikely

1:51:03probabilities seem more likely and the

1:51:06reason i bring that up is because when i

1:51:07think about breakfast occurring like if

1:51:09the UK actually leaves i think it is

1:51:13very likely like 97% likely that

1:51:17Scotland leaves the UK if that occurs

1:51:20I i find it very hard to imagine that

1:51:22that does not occur because for people

1:51:25who don't know who haven't been

1:51:26following the story the Scottish people

1:51:28overwhelmingly voted to stay in the

1:51:31European Union but of course there's

1:51:33part of the whole conglomerate of the UK

1:51:35and all their votes for light in with

1:51:37the overwhelming majority of English

1:51:38people and Welsh people so so if you

1:51:40were just taking the votes cast in

1:51:42Scotland alone they did want to stay and

1:51:45obviously the scottish independence

1:51:46people are using that as as leverage and

1:51:49saying hang on we don't want to leave

1:51:51the European Union the rest of you do if

1:51:52we were independent we wouldn't be

1:51:54dragged under with you

1:51:56so they're gonna use that to trigger

1:51:58their into another independence ave and

1:52:00at least from what from my reading up

1:52:01there was something about how the

1:52:02Scottish Parliament was even saying like

1:52:03as far as they're concerned they've

1:52:04already voted to stay so they just will

1:52:07stay right if if the UK actually leaves

1:52:09like we don't even need to hold another

1:52:10referendum we as a nation already had a

1:52:12huge margin that says we're going to

1:52:14stay so then that then they're going to

1:52:17definitely get their own American if

1:52:18anything looks lovely top levels already

1:52:20right it's very clear that could be the

1:52:23design i gotta Scotland's you have your

1:52:25own mode shape right then Scotland's

1:52:26gonna be wishing that the UK leaves that

1:52:28they can get their emoji that's how

1:52:30people make decisions in these things

1:52:31but so when I think about that like that

1:52:33i really do think that it's it's almost

1:52:35impossible to imagine a scenario where

1:52:37Scotland doesn't leave the UK if the UK

1:52:40leaves the EU and then if that occurs i

1:52:45also think he liked it starts getting

1:52:47into the realm of like not crazy

1:52:49unlikely that Northern Ireland which

1:52:51also voted to stay might leave the UK

1:52:55because then like Northern Ireland would

1:52:57be making a

1:52:58decision in the perspective of do you

1:53:00want to leave the european union with

1:53:02england and wales alone right like

1:53:05that's a very different question all of

1:53:06a sudden then we're really looking at

1:53:09breakfast it might lead to the breakup

1:53:11of the United Kingdom which i think is a

1:53:14thing that's kind of on people's minds

1:53:17now as a possibility that might occur

1:53:19and so when I say it's like it's like

1:53:21bayesian in a way it's almost like if

1:53:24the UK were to have another referendum

1:53:26that piece of information plus the piece

1:53:31of information that the international

1:53:33market obviously don't like the idea of

1:53:35brexit I think that really changes the

1:53:38idea of what are you voting for

1:53:41are you voting for possibly just Wales

1:53:44and England to leave the EU that sounds

1:53:47like a terrible idea

1:53:48like I don't think very many people

1:53:49would vote for that if it was on the

1:53:51referendum but it may very well be the

1:53:54logical consequence of the referendum

1:53:55yeah I think you're right ray

1:53:58there's a few other things that I feel

1:53:59thoughts and I that I had one thing that

1:54:02I think is important to say it's really

1:54:03important thing and what's going on in

1:54:05politics in a few things is that i don't

1:54:08think most of the people who voted to

1:54:11leave idiots right like I think I made a

1:54:16poor decision or whatever reasons they

1:54:18made it but i don't think they're idiots

1:54:20but i think that has been the pervasive

1:54:22message if you vote to leave you idiot

1:54:25and that was kind of the intellectual

1:54:27highbrow sort of attitude that was

1:54:29coming across in the build-up to the

1:54:30election and I think that was really

1:54:32really counterproductive and I think it

1:54:35makes people who are 5050 but leaning or

1:54:38maybe people have a slight leaning

1:54:39towards leave I just think in trenches

1:54:41their position telling people they're

1:54:43idiots is bad and I think it became a

1:54:45really big part of this election that

1:54:47people who maybe have a lower income or

1:54:50come from a part of England that is

1:54:51poorer felt like they were being told

1:54:53they were idiots for having their doubts

1:54:55about Europe and I think that caused a

1:54:57real back lash and fair enough to you

1:55:00shouldn't tell people the videos i

1:55:01totally agree

1:55:02I mean this goes back to my whole

1:55:05feeling about how your groups just

1:55:07talked with themselves and they end up

1:55:08creating these imaginary versions of the

1:55:10other group they just rail against how

1:55:13does that change anybody's mind I I

1:55:15think that just is the same thing like

1:55:17it further makes people feel resentful

1:55:20and trenched into their positions like

1:55:24it's not a mind changing thing to

1:55:26describe someone as like as a idiot me

1:55:29like instruct so you should change your

1:55:30mind and vote for me it's not a good

1:55:32argument is not a good way to change

1:55:33someone's actual mind tell you whatever

1:55:35stuff done gray well I've started the

1:55:38process of applying for my Irish

1:55:40passport you really yeah with so I can

1:55:46stay the european union's do

1:55:47are you able to get an Irish passport I

1:55:49am I am so I've got an australian one

1:55:51and I've got a UK one but I am eligible

1:55:53for an Irishman some I could end up with

1:55:56three passports

1:55:57I always forget that you have the UK

1:55:58passport I don't know why I can't

1:56:00remember that i was thinking like oh but

1:56:01but but if you get the Irish passport

1:56:03just like me you can stay in the UK

1:56:05anyway you don't have to go travel to

1:56:08the European Union but right you want to

1:56:10keep the option of being able to live

1:56:13and work anywhere in the EU

1:56:14I think it's a stupid thing and like I

1:56:16you know I don't really need to do it

1:56:18but it just it was just something i did

1:56:19on impulse but I'm not the lone ranger

1:56:22like the the the Irish authorities have

1:56:24actually issued a play to the people of

1:56:25Britain to stop applying for passports

1:56:27because they're going absolutely

1:56:29overwhelmed environment

1:56:30oh my god i'm not surprised I'm not the

1:56:32least bit surprised at that Ireland must

1:56:34be getting swamped with passport

1:56:36applications so they go i'm currently

1:56:41gathering all the necessary birth

1:56:43certificates and things like that

1:56:45well I wish you all the best of luck in

1:56:48your Irish endeavors

1:56:49mmm it could be a long wait by the

1:56:51sounds of it