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H.I. #60: The Beautiful Game


00:00:00   get ready get ready get ready I'm ready [TS]

00:00:02   and I was talking to me I wasn't talking [TS]

00:00:04   to you I watched your Star Trek [TS]

00:00:09   transporter video and at the time I [TS]

00:00:11   thought is this a little bit of bollocks [TS]

00:00:14   like all your videos it was it was it [TS]

00:00:19   was well written and thought-provoking [TS]

00:00:20   and yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah what do you [TS]

00:00:24   mean it was bollocks that what do you [TS]

00:00:25   really like the first half of cool i'm [TS]

00:00:28   mostly like em you know we've discussed [TS]

00:00:31   transporters before obviously you [TS]

00:00:33   discuss transporters with everybody [TS]

00:00:34   anyone who knows you know you talk about [TS]

00:00:36   transporters all the time yeah this is [TS]

00:00:38   regular dinner table conversation if you [TS]

00:00:40   have me over at the house is like [TS]

00:00:41   there's a few things that are going to [TS]

00:00:42   come up [TS]

00:00:43   free will is going to come up yet the [TS]

00:00:44   question of do you know why American [TS]

00:00:47   Indians got sick with the Europeans [TS]

00:00:49   didn't get saying that they're going to [TS]

00:00:50   cut love it and then do you think that [TS]

00:00:52   the transporter is a suicide machine [TS]

00:00:54   those are like your three guaranteed [TS]

00:00:56   great conversation starter [TS]

00:00:58   yeah so the transport of things or I [TS]

00:01:00   mean you know besides the fact it's a [TS]

00:01:03   fictional machine but you know that's [TS]

00:01:04   our i'm going to go with that I'm going [TS]

00:01:06   to go with that and it is an interesting [TS]

00:01:08   conundrum if two of you exist you know [TS]

00:01:12   this is this is a classic conundrum [TS]

00:01:14   prestige was great for that wasn't a [TS]

00:01:16   great movie for that I still haven't [TS]

00:01:18   seen it but I feel like I know that [TS]

00:01:19   whole movie because everyone has told me [TS]

00:01:20   every part of it that's a great movie [TS]

00:01:22   great thanks twitter spoilers well you [TS]

00:01:25   know I had eventually when the film's [TS]

00:01:27   been around long enough you can you've [TS]

00:01:28   got to just say me a copper I should [TS]

00:01:31   have seen it by now and works with this [TS]

00:01:33   before but the last part of your video [TS]

00:01:36   where you talk about dying every time [TS]

00:01:38   you go to sleep well hang on let's just [TS]

00:01:39   let's just give me a yes or no answer [TS]

00:01:41   here do you think you die every time you [TS]

00:01:44   go to sleep [TS]

00:01:45   this is the part where you think I'm [TS]

00:01:46   just being silly at the end [TS]

00:01:48   no I don't think you're being silly i [TS]

00:01:50   just want you and you haven't given me a [TS]

00:01:52   yes or no just give me a yes or no then [TS]

00:01:54   you can say whatever you want [TS]

00:01:55   do you think you and I and other people [TS]

00:01:57   die every time we go to sleep [TS]

00:02:02   note that you can only say one of two [TS]

00:02:05   words next [TS]

00:02:06   that's not how this works that is not [TS]

00:02:08   one of the words yes or no [TS]

00:02:14   okay listen listen oh I said afterwards [TS]

00:02:20   you can say whatever you want and you [TS]

00:02:22   can do all your clarifying and all that [TS]

00:02:23   but the next word I want out of your [TS]

00:02:25   mouth is a yes or a no it's unknowable [TS]

00:02:31   Brady wrong bro and I said what do you [TS]

00:02:36   think it's not unknowable what you think [TS]

00:02:38   you know what you think because you're [TS]

00:02:40   thinking it [TS]

00:02:41   no easy now easy there you have you come [TS]

00:02:43   to help you have a false premise in your [TS]

00:02:47   head you assume that i have a clear [TS]

00:02:51   opinion on this topic right you guys [TS]

00:02:53   doing this at a time when we were [TS]

00:02:55   actually answer you are doing exactly [TS]

00:02:57   what your keys to your guns germs and [TS]

00:02:59   steel a pilot's of doing in the last [TS]

00:03:01   podcast episode where you said they [TS]

00:03:02   avoid questions and reframe the debate I [TS]

00:03:06   i do not think we die every time we go [TS]

00:03:09   to sleep and this how if there's this [TS]

00:03:11   break in the stream of consciousness [TS]

00:03:13   then we are dead is ridiculous [TS]

00:03:16   it is a ridiculous definition of death [TS]

00:03:18   maybe I don't know but it is a [TS]

00:03:19   ridiculous suggestion and I don't think [TS]

00:03:22   it is ridiculous [TS]

00:03:23   I genuinely do not think it is [TS]

00:03:25   ridiculous well great i'm here to tell [TS]

00:03:27   you it is i mean how are we defining [TS]

00:03:29   breaks in consciousness are there like [TS]

00:03:31   plank second breaks in their [TS]

00:03:34   consciousness when we look from one [TS]

00:03:36   place to another in which we momentarily [TS]

00:03:38   died are we dying every few planks [TS]

00:03:40   seconds when out when our [TS]

00:03:41   consciousnesses disengaged for a [TS]

00:03:44   nanosecond like well where are we [TS]

00:03:46   drawing lines here if we're drawing of [TS]

00:03:48   the death line sleep [TS]

00:03:50   we've entered the world of [TS]

00:03:51   ridiculousness well I mean look look if [TS]

00:03:56   someone's asleep and shoot them in the [TS]

00:03:57   head [TS]

00:03:58   have I not killed them because they were [TS]

00:04:00   alive at the time [TS]

00:04:02   let's see Kevin you're now you know [TS]

00:04:06   trying to frame this like it's murder [TS]

00:04:07   right like you've killed this person and [TS]

00:04:09   you should go to prison for it [TS]

00:04:10   oh that's even better if i give someone [TS]

00:04:12   a sleeping pill over killed them [TS]

00:04:14   it's just really just ridiculous its [TS]

00:04:15   history [TS]

00:04:16   it's not ridiculous it is not it is not [TS]

00:04:18   ridiculous I I reject your claim that it [TS]

00:04:21   is just absurd it is just ridiculous [TS]

00:04:24   I i think this is one of many very [TS]

00:04:27   interesting questions that are related [TS]

00:04:28   to the nature of of consciousness the [TS]

00:04:31   consciousness is this strange like [TS]

00:04:35   inexplicable phenomenon of the universe [TS]

00:04:38   that just doesn't make any sense and [TS]

00:04:40   makes the less sense makes less sense [TS]

00:04:42   the more you think about it right you [TS]

00:04:44   can start driving yourself crazy when [TS]

00:04:46   you start thinking about consciousness [TS]

00:04:47   yeah but I think you're doing a [TS]

00:04:48   disservice to the debate when you say [TS]

00:04:50   something silly like when we go to sleep [TS]

00:04:52   with dead because that that's like [TS]

00:04:55   you're undermining yourself it's like [TS]

00:04:57   you're dressing up in a clown suit to [TS]

00:04:58   make the argument and why did alright [TS]

00:05:00   and I don't and I i completely agree [TS]

00:05:02   with you which it's immensely [TS]

00:05:04   interesting and you posed many really [TS]

00:05:06   interesting questions in the video but [TS]

00:05:08   throwing some deliberately provocative [TS]

00:05:11   thing out there like saying is the Grim [TS]

00:05:13   Reaper coming at night and taking our [TS]

00:05:15   life every night I mean that's not [TS]

00:05:18   deliberately provocative I wake up in [TS]

00:05:20   the morning and often have a moment of [TS]

00:05:23   wondering about this like do I just have [TS]

00:05:26   my memories from the previous day's or [TS]

00:05:28   is this a continuous version of me like [TS]

00:05:31   I don't think there's any way to know [TS]

00:05:32   that's why I think like the sleep thing [TS]

00:05:34   is is inseparable from the transporter [TS]

00:05:36   paradox if I didn't think this sleep [TS]

00:05:39   thing was connected to the transporter [TS]

00:05:41   paradox [TS]

00:05:41   I wouldn't have made that whole video in [TS]

00:05:44   my mind the whole video was just to get [TS]

00:05:47   to the point that you think is the [TS]

00:05:49   provocative bit tacked onto the end to [TS]

00:05:52   me like that's the thing that really [TS]

00:05:54   affects my daily life [TS]

00:05:56   well it must be a hard thing yet it is [TS]

00:06:00   hard being me [TS]

00:06:01   it's terribly difficult being me trust [TS]

00:06:03   me gray you're the same guy I'd like you [TS]

00:06:05   just you just to sleep [TS]

00:06:07   I mean listen I don't even know if [TS]

00:06:09   you're alive really like if you're [TS]

00:06:11   conscious or if you're just some robot [TS]

00:06:13   that I talked to write so it's like I [TS]

00:06:14   can't just trust you on this [TS]

00:06:16   I love that we're talking about this [TS]

00:06:17   because you know what I've been and will [TS]

00:06:20   probably talk about this later but I've [TS]

00:06:21   been thinking a lot the last few weeks [TS]

00:06:22   about the difference between us and [TS]

00:06:25   computers and wife and I think and it's [TS]

00:06:28   really hard to read [TS]

00:06:29   hard thing to to to think about and [TS]

00:06:32   arguing is you know I think I think [TS]

00:06:35   people who say there's no difference [TS]

00:06:36   between humans and computers actually [TS]

00:06:37   have the easier easier position and the [TS]

00:06:42   fact that we can sit around and wonder [TS]

00:06:44   if we were dead when we're asleep I [TS]

00:06:47   think that's getting close to the what [TS]

00:06:49   separates us from computers just the the [TS]

00:06:51   absurdity of thinking about this and [TS]

00:06:53   taking it seriously is wonderful i think [TS]

00:06:56   your credit humanity great it is not [TS]

00:06:58   absurd to wonder about as I'm not gonna [TS]

00:07:00   let you just get away with that [TS]

00:07:02   just just sliding it out there like that [TS]

00:07:04   i will follow this to the absurd [TS]

00:07:08   conclusion that we die every nanosecond [TS]

00:07:12   right that's what you were you can we're [TS]

00:07:14   trying to push me out before [TS]

00:07:15   yeah I will follow this to the end and [TS]

00:07:17   think that it is not improbable that [TS]

00:07:19   what we have is a universe which is [TS]

00:07:21   divided up into like these infinite [TS]

00:07:24   number of time slices each of which has [TS]

00:07:26   the memories of what has come before but [TS]

00:07:29   every single moment we are just a [TS]

00:07:31   creature that is conscious and new with [TS]

00:07:33   all of the memories yeah 10 yeah is the [TS]

00:07:35   universe like a house series of nails [TS]

00:07:37   and things like this [TS]

00:07:38   yeah well okay and that's I think that's [TS]

00:07:41   a different type III think it's maybe [TS]

00:07:43   it's time to talk semantics and redefine [TS]

00:07:46   what we mean by death because I think [TS]

00:07:48   you're taking a very provocative word in [TS]

00:07:51   death and applying it to a whole [TS]

00:07:53   different discussion here now and using [TS]

00:07:55   imagery like the Grim Reaper who is [TS]

00:07:57   varied is is using is using the emotive [TS]

00:08:02   pneus of what normal people consider [TS]

00:08:04   death and injecting it into a whole [TS]

00:08:06   different discussion [TS]

00:08:07   how are you not anxious before you fall [TS]

00:08:10   asleep sometimes like this has never [TS]

00:08:12   crossed your mind that this is your last [TS]

00:08:14   day you just just hop into bed like it [TS]

00:08:17   like a happy Brady every time it never [TS]

00:08:19   crosses your mind that our I guess this [TS]

00:08:21   is my only day of existence because that [TS]

00:08:23   crosses my mind all the time when it's [TS]

00:08:25   bedtime [TS]

00:08:26   I think it's I think it really shows [TS]

00:08:28   your humanity and that warms my heart [TS]

00:08:32   look at you trying to turn this around [TS]

00:08:33   on me to bring you back from your trip [TS]

00:08:37   your trip to the forbidden kingdom [TS]

00:08:41   I wasn't even sure if you were going to [TS]

00:08:42   make it back from such a mysterious [TS]

00:08:43   mysterious place I thought you might be [TS]

00:08:46   swept away by the mists of that land but [TS]

00:08:50   you're back [TS]

00:08:50   so how was i'm back and amazingly you [TS]

00:08:53   took so long to edit the last broadcast [TS]

00:08:54   that I had been and had returned before [TS]

00:08:58   you put up the podcast saying i was [TS]

00:09:00   about to go [TS]

00:09:01   that's how that works these things [TS]

00:09:02   aren't as scheduled now you've accepted [TS]

00:09:05   the term forbidden kingdom that I'm just [TS]

00:09:07   doing it to humor you but you know if [TS]

00:09:08   you you know us i go on Wikipedia or [TS]

00:09:10   higher dimensions that they actually [TS]

00:09:12   have a page if you search forbidden [TS]

00:09:14   kingdom on wikipedia it said this could [TS]

00:09:17   refer to Bhutan i'm searching for [TS]

00:09:18   forbidden kingdom right now there's a [TS]

00:09:20   movie called The Forbidden Kingdom 2008 [TS]

00:09:23   with jackie chan and gently not the film [TS]

00:09:27   ok but this is the thing that comes out [TS]

00:09:28   this is the title one under the [TS]

00:09:30   forbidden kingdom look at offer oh yeah [TS]

00:09:33   yeah okay but if I have to go to the [TS]

00:09:35   disambiguation page you've already lost [TS]

00:09:37   i'm not impressed i haven't no because [TS]

00:09:39   I'm not saying it's like the only thing [TS]

00:09:42   called if in the forbidden kingdom 1932 [TS]

00:09:44   novel by Jace Lauer half I'm saying it's [TS]

00:09:47   a legitimate term forbidden kingdom is [TS]

00:09:50   setting in dungeons and dragons [TS]

00:09:52   yeah and what's number five on the list [TS]

00:09:55   a country guitar because someone's [TS]

00:09:57   really imperial palace of me great Qin [TS]

00:10:00   dynasty's pray it says there's time a [TS]

00:10:04   country sometimes occasionally may be [TS]

00:10:07   referred to as the forbidden kingdom by [TS]

00:10:09   Brady that's what it's a good idea that [TS]

00:10:11   is that's what it will always say on the [TS]

00:10:13   wikipedia disambiguation page for [TS]

00:10:15   forbidden kingdom it probably will now [TS]

00:10:17   after you said that but that's right I i [TS]

00:10:20   did go to Bhutan but before I went to [TS]

00:10:23   Bhutan i went to India know you got in [TS]

00:10:25   her my feelings about the visa process [TS]

00:10:28   it's something that causes me a level of [TS]

00:10:31   frustration [TS]

00:10:33   so we arrived in India and I got three [TS]

00:10:36   immigration quite smoothly [TS]

00:10:37   m-my wife on the other hand was there [TS]

00:10:40   forever and one thing you learn about [TS]

00:10:43   Indian officers is there they are not [TS]

00:10:47   reluctant to refer things up to their [TS]

00:10:49   superior when there any doubt about [TS]

00:10:51   anything [TS]

00:10:52   it's a bureaucracy so my wife was there [TS]

00:10:54   for quite some time and he was confused [TS]

00:10:56   and he didn't know what to do and he [TS]

00:10:58   went after service boss and he came back [TS]

00:10:59   and went to see his boss again and came [TS]

00:11:02   back and I reckon after 20 minutes maybe [TS]

00:11:04   he finally with some reluctance letter [TS]

00:11:07   through gave her all the stamps and then [TS]

00:11:09   we went and waited [TS]

00:11:10   we're waiting for air luggage and while [TS]

00:11:13   we're waiting literally while we're [TS]

00:11:15   waiting for the bags among the crowds of [TS]

00:11:17   people the officer came back and found [TS]

00:11:20   us in the crowds and said and said I [TS]

00:11:23   think I made a mistake and took my wife [TS]

00:11:25   back to the immigration counter like [TS]

00:11:27   back through all the security took her [TS]

00:11:29   back to the counter to redo all the [TS]

00:11:32   stamps and the paperwork wouldn't [TS]

00:11:33   explain what it was I wasn't allowed to [TS]

00:11:35   go with her and I reckon it must have [TS]

00:11:36   taken 30 minutes of nightmares to get to [TS]

00:11:39   get through what and then we have the [TS]

00:11:42   same problem when we came back in i had [TS]

00:11:44   problems when I was going out where he [TS]

00:11:46   didn't understand what was going on with [TS]

00:11:48   my passport and he was about to go and [TS]

00:11:50   see his boss and I said before you go [TS]

00:11:52   and see your boss and I pointed that he [TS]

00:11:54   was looking at the wrong stamp with its [TS]

00:11:55   handwritten number in my passport and [TS]

00:11:57   said you should be looking at that stamp [TS]

00:11:59   and entering that number into your [TS]

00:12:00   computer and he was like oh yeah maybe [TS]

00:12:01   I'll try that when I was doing the job [TS]

00:12:04   for them [TS]

00:12:05   it sounds like a lovely country but we [TS]

00:12:06   did go to the Taj Mahal yeah was worth [TS]

00:12:08   it [TS]

00:12:09   hours of people were exceeded my [TS]

00:12:10   expectations one of the one of the most [TS]

00:12:13   amazing places I've been [TS]

00:12:14   can you go inside it you can just walk [TS]

00:12:16   around the ground you can you can go [TS]

00:12:17   inside that x is a bit crazy with queues [TS]

00:12:20   and but you wouldn't like that part [TS]

00:12:22   going inside part so if I got in here I [TS]

00:12:24   don't even want to go inside the Dodger [TS]

00:12:26   are gonna go in it but you don't know us [TS]

00:12:30   it won't like it but you've got 20 it's [TS]

00:12:33   a bit out you've gotten that far you may [TS]

00:12:34   as well but it's just it's just like [TS]

00:12:37   it's just as beautiful as it looks and [TS]

00:12:38   other pictures and no really and it's in [TS]

00:12:41   a really big setting like it's what I [TS]

00:12:44   didn't realize was how lovely the [TS]

00:12:45   grounds are thats in this game [TS]

00:12:47   in these sort of verdant lovely gardens [TS]

00:12:50   and although there's like you know tens [TS]

00:12:52   of thousands of people visiting the site [TS]

00:12:54   is big enough and nice enough that kind [TS]

00:12:56   of soaks up the people so you don't feel [TS]

00:12:58   like you in sort of crazy busy india you [TS]

00:13:01   do feel like you're in you're in a [TS]

00:13:02   crowded oasis for a foreign territory [TS]

00:13:06   except when you get channeled into the [TS]

00:13:07   building itself that is that is [TS]

00:13:08   craziness but really what be really [TS]

00:13:10   wonderful but then the obviously the [TS]

00:13:12   main reason for the trip was going to [TS]

00:13:14   the forbidden kingdom of Bhutan and I I [TS]

00:13:18   could talk about return forever it was [TS]

00:13:19   absolutely brilliant one of the best [TS]

00:13:22   countries i've ever been to lots of [TS]

00:13:24   interesting things to say and say about [TS]

00:13:26   it and i'll talk about if you want but [TS]

00:13:28   the one thing i really want to talk [TS]

00:13:30   about that was the absolute highlight [TS]

00:13:31   for me is the flight to and from return [TS]

00:13:35   without doubt the most magnificent flat [TS]

00:13:38   you will ever do you have to do on the [TS]

00:13:40   drug air which is the national airline [TS]

00:13:43   of Baton oh yeah so when I was in India [TS]

00:13:46   sort of the people that were looking [TS]

00:13:47   after the two or said if you want to if [TS]

00:13:49   you going on the drug care it's worth [TS]

00:13:51   going to the airport a few hours earlier [TS]

00:13:53   than you should just to get a seat on [TS]

00:13:57   the left-hand side of the plane who when [TS]

00:14:00   you're flying from Delhi to pero which [TS]

00:14:03   is where the airport is in return [TS]

00:14:05   because that's the side or the Himalayas [TS]

00:14:07   are on who and basically the whole [TS]

00:14:09   flight just skirts along the edge of the [TS]

00:14:12   Himalayas past you know I think three of [TS]

00:14:15   the top five mountains in the world five [TS]

00:14:17   highest mountains in the world including [TS]

00:14:18   Everest are all along the hall outside [TS]

00:14:21   the bank so we got to we go to the [TS]

00:14:23   airport very very early like three in [TS]

00:14:25   the morning because I there's no way I [TS]

00:14:27   wasn't gonna get that safe and we got [TS]

00:14:29   the state we got the state on the [TS]

00:14:31   left-hand side i was really excited I'm [TS]

00:14:34   not always that into in-flight [TS]

00:14:35   entertainment sometimes I watch TV shows [TS]

00:14:37   and movies and things like that I swear [TS]

00:14:39   my eyes were glued to the window for the [TS]

00:14:43   whole area and a half that we were [TS]

00:14:45   flying like it was just amazing I [TS]

00:14:47   couldn't take my eyes off of just going [TS]

00:14:48   just like the Himmel it was like the [TS]

00:14:50   ultimate screensaver just watching the [TS]

00:14:51   Himalayas go past that you could reach [TS]

00:14:53   out and touch the mountains and I was [TS]

00:14:55   going crazy taking photos and then when [TS]

00:14:56   Everest was coming i was so excited and [TS]

00:14:59   it was clear-headed [TS]

00:15:00   out uh-huh you couldn't see the top of [TS]

00:15:03   Everest but it was still amazing still [TS]

00:15:05   so these amazing mountains I'm just [TS]

00:15:06   pulling it up on my computer here with a [TS]

00:15:09   3d topographical map and it looks like a [TS]

00:15:14   hell of an amazing flight if you are on [TS]

00:15:17   the left-hand side of the plane like I [TS]

00:15:19   don't see why along this route like now [TS]

00:15:21   be on the left right because to write [TS]

00:15:23   like directly under the plane on the [TS]

00:15:26   right hand side there's nothing left [TS]

00:15:28   hand side it is the most magnificent [TS]

00:15:31   mountains ever which i feel like i am [TS]

00:15:33   getting eighty percent of the delight in [TS]

00:15:36   this trip simply by looking at it as a [TS]

00:15:39   3d rendering on my computer it's quite [TS]

00:15:40   amazing when we came in to land at pero [TS]

00:15:42   and suddenly the plane did this like [TS]

00:15:44   crazy turn and there were like mountains [TS]

00:15:48   and monasteries like right up against [TS]

00:15:50   the wing and I'm go [TS]

00:15:51   what the hell's going on this is insane [TS]

00:15:52   this tight turn amongst all the [TS]

00:15:55   mountains and then this crazy sharp [TS]

00:15:57   landing and author gosh I didn't know [TS]

00:15:59   that was coming it was that was quite [TS]

00:16:01   the landing so a bit later on that [TS]

00:16:05   evening i looked up pero airport on the [TS]

00:16:07   I'm looking at it right now I can I can [TS]

00:16:09   see why you did a crazy land yeah and I [TS]

00:16:11   didn't realize that it's this it's fact [TS]

00:16:13   it's another one of these famous [TS]

00:16:15   airports for this crazy dangerous [TS]

00:16:16   landing [TS]

00:16:17   I've never had a bad crash there like to [TS]

00:16:19   have it look like the other death [TS]

00:16:20   airport that I always go to but it was [TS]

00:16:22   like it was an insane [TS]

00:16:23   it was insane landing but really [TS]

00:16:25   exciting the the airport is at the [TS]

00:16:27   bottom of a valley but it's almost like [TS]

00:16:29   at the bottom of a why we're that this [TS]

00:16:31   mountain is going up on either side but [TS]

00:16:33   i'm at like at the base of the airstrip [TS]

00:16:36   as well there's another mountain going [TS]

00:16:37   up so you really gotta just yeah drop [TS]

00:16:40   the plane and a crazy maneuver to get [TS]

00:16:42   onto that that landing strip [TS]

00:16:43   it was quite as some quite there's some [TS]

00:16:45   quite nice youtube videos of a of [TS]

00:16:47   landings they're so anyway great time in [TS]

00:16:50   Bhutan and then when it came time to [TS]

00:16:51   leave [TS]

00:16:52   I was saying I'm making sure I get the [TS]

00:16:54   right hand side of the plane this time [TS]

00:16:55   because that's the revert that's the [TS]

00:16:57   reverse and actually we upgraded to [TS]

00:16:59   business to make sure we got we got the [TS]

00:17:01   prime States is a swimmer in the key [TS]

00:17:04   they said would you like to upgrade to [TS]

00:17:05   business and it wasn't that expensive [TS]

00:17:06   because only a short flight and I said [TS]

00:17:08   other any business it's on the right [TS]

00:17:10   hand side still left and they went [TS]

00:17:11   chicken said yes there are so [TS]

00:17:13   said down so yeah so we did the flight [TS]

00:17:17   back in again it was it was it was it [TS]

00:17:20   was it was breathtaking i took loads of [TS]

00:17:22   photos i took video and people can have [TS]

00:17:24   a look at all this and we're coming up [TS]

00:17:26   to Everest and it was a bit shrouded in [TS]

00:17:28   clouds and like the captain announces [TS]

00:17:30   when you get to Everest because i'm a [TS]

00:17:32   nerd I knew what was coming and then I [TS]

00:17:33   can see it up ahead and it was shrouded [TS]

00:17:35   in cloud and just as we just as we sort [TS]

00:17:38   of got up level with that the cloud sort [TS]

00:17:40   of moved away a bit and and we got this [TS]

00:17:42   beautiful view looking right at it right [TS]

00:17:45   at the face of Mount Everest and I was [TS]

00:17:46   taking all these photos and videos and [TS]

00:17:48   got these amazing pictures and like i [TS]

00:17:51   was i was very happy i was very happy [TS]

00:17:53   had a very big smile on my face and I [TS]

00:17:55   was like changing my lenses that have [TS]

00:17:57   like a whole photo shoot going on taking [TS]

00:17:58   a minute taking a million photos and [TS]

00:18:00   like we've done this we've done this [TS]

00:18:02   massive trip for two weeks and this was [TS]

00:18:04   the bride at the end as we were leaving [TS]

00:18:05   and I was telling him why I've got this [TS]

00:18:06   the best bit of our trip but taking [TS]

00:18:09   these photos are never at the window the [TS]

00:18:11   plane but but had ever had an amazing [TS]

00:18:14   time [TS]

00:18:14   bhutan 10 out of 10 if you ever get the [TS]

00:18:17   chance to go do it [TS]

00:18:19   this sounds like a very successful [TS]

00:18:22   venture in the Brady year of fun i'm not [TS]

00:18:25   really glad to hear that you had such a [TS]

00:18:27   good time even though i give you a hard [TS]

00:18:29   time for these things that I can hear [TS]

00:18:31   the genuine Brady excitement in your [TS]

00:18:33   voice [TS]

00:18:33   scribe was great they had they had this [TS]

00:18:36   i went to the one intersection where in [TS]

00:18:39   the capital they had a they put some [TS]

00:18:43   traffic lights in there was one [TS]

00:18:44   intersection they thought could maybe [TS]

00:18:46   justified traffic lights who and the [TS]

00:18:48   people of Bhutan just didn't like it i [TS]

00:18:49   didn't like traffic lights so they had [TS]

00:18:51   them taken out and now they have like [TS]

00:18:53   just a policeman there with fancy gloves [TS]

00:18:55   on a fancy outfit like they're guiding [TS]

00:18:57   all the traffic through and that's [TS]

00:18:58   become a bit of an attraction so i went [TS]

00:19:00   there and stood there and watched him [TS]

00:19:02   guiding the traffic for 20 minutes like [TS]

00:19:05   the North Korean traffic girls [TS]

00:19:07   yeah it's a accept less terrifying i [TS]

00:19:11   don't know what the political situation [TS]

00:19:12   in Bhutan good better the North Korea [TS]

00:19:14   probably [TS]

00:19:15   don't start me gray i will talk about [TS]

00:19:18   our talk about the politics of return [TS]

00:19:20   how the monarchy's handed over power to [TS]

00:19:22   and you know there's all sorts of [TS]

00:19:24   interesting that I'm an expert i'm an [TS]

00:19:26   expert on hand polish accent monarchy [TS]

00:19:30   yeah well I could tell you all about the [TS]

00:19:32   five kings and everything [TS]

00:19:34   let's leave that for a beer in person i [TS]

00:19:36   have to thank you i did take i took a [TS]

00:19:38   million photos and i posted one of the [TS]

00:19:40   photos which you very helpfully asked [TS]

00:19:43   everyone on Twitter to manipulate Brady [TS]

00:19:46   posted this picture of himself on [TS]

00:19:47   twitter where you're looking very cool [TS]

00:19:50   you know you have your sunglasses on [TS]

00:19:52   but you are in the perfect part of the [TS]

00:19:54   photo where you are off on the edge [TS]

00:19:56   looking off to the side and I told the [TS]

00:19:58   internet this photograph demands an [TS]

00:20:01   explosion before workshop behind it and [TS]

00:20:04   boy did the internet deliver i had a [TS]

00:20:08   very fun day [TS]

00:20:09   Thank You internet looking at all of the [TS]

00:20:11   variations of Brady looking cool with [TS]

00:20:15   explosions client in the background the [TS]

00:20:18   internet always delivers with that kind [TS]

00:20:19   of stuff part of a part of me wants to [TS]

00:20:22   say damn you gray for filling up my [TS]

00:20:24   twitter feed with pictures but another [TS]

00:20:26   man for damn I look o at I'm like are [TS]

00:20:33   you [TS]

00:20:34   you Rascals he says he saves them to his [TS]

00:20:36   desktop to hang later every one of them [TS]

00:20:40   saved in a folder in fact i'm going to [TS]

00:20:42   have been a good actress award ceremony [TS]

00:20:45   in a few weeks I've been asked to supply [TS]

00:20:47   a photo of myself for them to show on [TS]

00:20:50   the screen when they show the nominees [TS]

00:20:51   how I should put one of those explosion [TS]

00:20:53   pictures it [TS]

00:20:54   yes and the nominees are Brady Haran all [TS]

00:20:58   this episode is brought to you by hover [TS]

00:21:03   hover is the best way to buy and manage [TS]

00:21:06   domain names and you can get ten percent [TS]

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00:21:28   maybe you want to create an entire [TS]

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00:21:50   so in the rush to get a perfect domain [TS]

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00:22:37   when you do so use the offer code germs [TS]

00:22:41   to get ten percent off at checkout [TS]

00:22:44   once again thanks to hover for [TS]

00:22:46   supporting the show [TS]

00:22:51   I have some hot stopper follow-up [TS]

00:22:54   Pratt's a rival of starbucks has hot [TS]

00:22:58   stoppers here in the UK and I have [TS]

00:23:01   actually in no small part switched from [TS]

00:23:05   drinking primarily at starbucks to [TS]

00:23:07   drinking primarily at pret entirely [TS]

00:23:09   because of these hot stoppers like when [TS]

00:23:11   I go in and I get a coffee [TS]

00:23:12   I want a heart-stopper and the thing is [TS]

00:23:14   what I have noticed that I find quite [TS]

00:23:16   remarkable is that if I go in and I [TS]

00:23:19   asked them for a hot stopper which I do [TS]

00:23:21   without even thinking about it they know [TS]

00:23:23   exactly what I'm talking about and they [TS]

00:23:25   just hand me one do you use the word [TS]

00:23:27   heart-stopper yes I literally say oh I [TS]

00:23:29   need a hot stopper because I can't even [TS]

00:23:30   think about what else it's supposed to [TS]

00:23:32   be called and no one ever blinks at this [TS]

00:23:34   I don't even want hot stuff was but i [TS]

00:23:35   always ask them just to see how they [TS]

00:23:37   react I made a note of it the other day [TS]

00:23:38   but I was in a print across town and I [TS]

00:23:40   almost wanted to to instant message you [TS]

00:23:43   because I started to point at the hot [TS]

00:23:46   stoppers and the guy behind the counter [TS]

00:23:49   said i would you want a hot stopper and [TS]

00:23:52   he handed no I host I almost couldn't [TS]

00:23:55   believe it but I was in such shock and [TS]

00:23:57   it was like so busy that I couldn't I [TS]

00:23:59   couldn't have a conversation with the [TS]

00:24:00   dude but like where did you hear that [TS]

00:24:01   word man like where did you hear that [TS]

00:24:03   but yeah they use the word hot stopper [TS]

00:24:05   without without being about being [TS]

00:24:07   provoked by me but it's it's the natural [TS]

00:24:10   word for these things [TS]

00:24:11   great do you think maybe like I have a a [TS]

00:24:14   gift [TS]

00:24:15   yes Brady you have a gift hey this is [TS]

00:24:20   like my second word i should say that [TS]

00:24:23   because people take it way too seriously [TS]

00:24:24   they think i actually think like I miss [TS]

00:24:26   inventor of words and then they get all [TS]

00:24:28   yeah you don't think it this way it's [TS]

00:24:30   okay i like you know don't don't try to [TS]

00:24:32   deflect now but you do think this way [TS]

00:24:33   and that's fine we do have a gift I you [TS]

00:24:36   what you are good with this [TS]

00:24:37   behind-the-scenes you come up with a lot [TS]

00:24:39   of the titles for the show like you're [TS]

00:24:40   very good at picking out titles for [TS]

00:24:42   shows i think you're good at naming [TS]

00:24:43   things i think this is the skill of [TS]

00:24:44   yours don't you say that about titles of [TS]

00:24:46   the shows because you never use my [TS]

00:24:47   titles i don't want people looking over [TS]

00:24:49   your lame title wasn't thinking i came [TS]

00:24:51   up with them [TS]

00:24:51   okay all right look look at my title [TS]

00:24:54   that you can leave as long as people [TS]

00:24:56   know that lame title was a great the [TS]

00:24:58   glass yeah there you go people all the [TS]

00:25:00   titles that are lame [TS]

00:25:01   those are mine and all the ones are [TS]

00:25:02   great those are Brady's that's how you [TS]

00:25:04   can tell the difference in defense of [TS]

00:25:05   starbucks something has to be made clear [TS]

00:25:08   you know how we spent forever trying to [TS]

00:25:10   convince people that we didn't invent [TS]

00:25:12   humble bragging we just talked about it [TS]

00:25:14   all right and it took us like 30 [TS]

00:25:16   episodes for people to kind of I feel [TS]

00:25:18   like it's finally finally gone away this [TS]

00:25:21   idea [TS]

00:25:22   yeah let me hear you later it's finally [TS]

00:25:25   over there [TS]

00:25:27   the new one is people seem to think that [TS]

00:25:29   when we first started talking about hot [TS]

00:25:32   stoppers starbucks had none because now [TS]

00:25:36   whenever they see I know hot stops in a [TS]

00:25:38   starbucks they always tweet us the [TS]

00:25:40   message saying that the hot stop was a [TS]

00:25:41   coming finally starbucks and getting [TS]

00:25:43   them starbucks have always had hot [TS]

00:25:46   stoppers they just patchy and [TS]

00:25:48   intermittent and they don't have them at [TS]

00:25:50   some stores and they did they don't they [TS]

00:25:52   do and they don't and like that was [TS]

00:25:54   always the case [TS]

00:25:56   yeah they haven't like started getting [TS]

00:25:58   them in on the back of all their [TS]

00:25:59   pressure so like I don't mind people [TS]

00:26:01   messaging me and tweeting about not stop [TS]

00:26:04   was and it's really good fun but hot [TS]

00:26:07   stoppers are already in existence and [TS]

00:26:09   they were in existence in starbucks [TS]

00:26:11   before we complained that they weren't [TS]

00:26:13   everywhere it was really meters [TS]

00:26:15   complaining that they aren't exactly [TS]

00:26:16   where I want them to be yeah one [TS]

00:26:18   particular brand several branches in [TS]

00:26:22   London with their butts oh here here is [TS]

00:26:26   here is what to me is like my continued [TS]

00:26:29   state of well with hot stoppers because [TS]

00:26:31   ok I've given up on on trying to get [TS]

00:26:33   them in in my local starbucks and it's [TS]

00:26:35   just not going to happen so I've been [TS]

00:26:36   going to print instead and now as you [TS]

00:26:39   know Brady I i sometimes have like [TS]

00:26:43   routines in my life that like I like [TS]

00:26:45   things to go a certain way I like things [TS]

00:26:47   to be the same know that this comes in [TS]

00:26:50   conflict with you know recognizing [TS]

00:26:52   people at stores like I just this is a [TS]

00:26:56   conflict in my life but so for various [TS]

00:26:58   reasons for the past couple of weeks i [TS]

00:27:00   have been establishing a new sort of [TS]

00:27:03   working habit where I'm getting up very [TS]

00:27:04   early i'm getting right out of the house [TS]

00:27:06   and getting straight to work and on my [TS]

00:27:08   way into work I go to get two lattes [TS]

00:27:13   from a prayer [TS]

00:27:14   on my way into work into writing now [TS]

00:27:17   because I'm getting too i needed a [TS]

00:27:19   little bag to carry them and I want hot [TS]

00:27:22   stoppers in the lid because they're in [TS]

00:27:23   the bag so it doesn't spill right that's [TS]

00:27:25   not unreasonable [TS]

00:27:26   that's a reasonable thing for a person [TS]

00:27:27   to want right yes of course we'll have [TS]

00:27:30   our cats have food issues but anyway [TS]

00:27:32   know what do you mean you have a few [TS]

00:27:33   issues how can you possibly have issues [TS]

00:27:35   with my two issues what why do you put [TS]

00:27:36   them in a bag why don't you let them in [TS]

00:27:38   a holder because that would be easier to [TS]

00:27:40   carry it yeah that would be easier prep [TS]

00:27:42   but print doesn't do holders they do hot [TS]

00:27:44   stoppers they don't do holder so they're [TS]

00:27:46   only little bags yeah i know i don't [TS]

00:27:48   know what position could be another [TS]

00:27:50   petition coming [TS]

00:27:51   yeah and and secondly what one of your [TS]

00:27:53   drinks go code if you buy two at the [TS]

00:27:54   same time [TS]

00:27:55   well the other function of a [TS]

00:27:56   heart-stopper is to keep the hot in it [TS]

00:27:59   stops the hot from getting out [TS]

00:28:00   so with a heart-stopper it stays warm [TS]

00:28:01   longer also i drink them very quickly [TS]

00:28:04   okay so it's not a big deal ok so anyway [TS]

00:28:07   you want you want to hot stuffers for [TS]

00:28:09   your latte center in a bag right now [TS]

00:28:11   here's the problem that at pratt they [TS]

00:28:15   keep the hot stoppers behind the counter [TS]

00:28:18   no just have them out where you can grab [TS]

00:28:22   them like starbucks normally does and [TS]

00:28:25   they don't normally just give you hot [TS]

00:28:28   stoppers with lattes they some for some [TS]

00:28:30   reason it's in their mind that this is [TS]

00:28:31   the thing just 40 right but so now I've [TS]

00:28:34   been going to this regular print and I [TS]

00:28:36   keep ordering two lattes and i'm there [TS]

00:28:39   at like six in the morning on the only [TS]

00:28:41   person there I want to get the hot [TS]

00:28:43   stoppers and i asked the only guy who's [TS]

00:28:45   always there for hot stoppers and we [TS]

00:28:48   start to have like a little discussion [TS]

00:28:50   which I can never figure out why but [TS]

00:28:53   this guy never wants to give me the hot [TS]

00:28:56   stoppers he's like what do you need the [TS]

00:28:58   hot stoppers for you have a bag it's [TS]

00:29:00   fine you can just use but it's like [TS]

00:29:01   every morning bringing every morning and [TS]

00:29:04   I'm like it's six in the morning i just [TS]

00:29:06   want the hot stoppers and this has been [TS]

00:29:08   going on for like two weeks at this [TS]

00:29:10   point like there's no other prep for me [TS]

00:29:12   to go into there's nothing else is open [TS]

00:29:14   at this time like this is the only [TS]

00:29:16   option that I have and it's like I just [TS]

00:29:18   want my morning to go nice and smooth [TS]

00:29:19   and yesterday I swear sometimes like now [TS]

00:29:21   10 days in a row with this guy i go in i [TS]

00:29:24   get the coffees I asked for hot stoppers [TS]

00:29:26   and you like why do you want [TS]

00:29:27   I just want to reach over the counter [TS]

00:29:30   and grabbed his shirt pulled him close [TS]

00:29:33   to me link [TS]

00:29:35   listen man your thoughts on why I do or [TS]

00:29:41   do not need the hot stoppers are [TS]

00:29:43   relevant [TS]

00:29:44   just give me the fucking hot stoppers [TS]

00:29:49   why does this have to happen to me why [TS]

00:29:53   is my life so hard Brady like why do I [TS]

00:29:55   have to have this little interaction [TS]

00:29:57   every freaking morning and you know what [TS]

00:30:00   the worst part about it is until I [TS]

00:30:02   haven't even gone to the worst part [TS]

00:30:03   because it's not just this guy in this [TS]

00:30:07   print there's another big problem with [TS]

00:30:08   the with the hot stoppers behind the [TS]

00:30:09   counter which is when you ask for them [TS]

00:30:12   if your person like me try not to look [TS]

00:30:16   at the way the people hand you the hot [TS]

00:30:18   stoppers very often they just pick them [TS]

00:30:21   up in the middle with their hands and [TS]

00:30:23   hand them to you with their gross sweaty [TS]

00:30:26   meaty money touching hands they hand you [TS]

00:30:30   the hostel brands like dude you know [TS]

00:30:32   that's going in my drink right the part [TS]

00:30:34   that you're holding right here it's [TS]

00:30:36   going in my drink [TS]

00:30:37   why can't you just have them out on the [TS]

00:30:40   counter where I can just pick them up [TS]

00:30:41   like what on earth is the reason to have [TS]

00:30:43   them behind the counter it's more work [TS]

00:30:44   for the the people getting the coffee [TS]

00:30:46   right and then they then they touch it [TS]

00:30:47   with their journey hands [TS]

00:30:49   I mean it's even like I try some one of [TS]

00:30:52   the things that you like about starbucks [TS]

00:30:53   right that is that they have all the [TS]

00:30:55   lids right there and so I cannot tell [TS]

00:30:56   you how pretty much every single time I [TS]

00:30:58   have ever ordered a latte at Starbucks [TS]

00:31:00   they hand me the latte but i'm looking [TS]

00:31:02   at the way that they hold the cup and [TS]

00:31:04   it's like oh I'm sorry the palm of your [TS]

00:31:05   hand was way too close to the opening in [TS]

00:31:07   the lid that you're handing it to me and [TS]

00:31:08   so I just reach over and I just grabbed [TS]

00:31:10   one of the other lids and pop it off and [TS]

00:31:12   like swap out the lid so i have a nice [TS]

00:31:14   fresh clean one right so i don't have to [TS]

00:31:15   drink with my mouth where they were just [TS]

00:31:17   touching their hand but there's no [TS]

00:31:19   option with this if you ask for a [TS]

00:31:20   heart-stopper so i feel like i can never [TS]

00:31:22   win Brady because now the place that has [TS]

00:31:24   the hots toppers the guy is reluctant to [TS]

00:31:26   give them to me and even if i get them i [TS]

00:31:29   get them with gross human germs mixed [TS]

00:31:31   into my lattes [TS]

00:31:33   I understand why it's difficult for [TS]

00:31:35   someone with your disorders but [TS]

00:31:37   I have to say it's not disorders it's [TS]

00:31:40   not it's not even it's not even [TS]

00:31:41   preferences you know like all i want all [TS]

00:31:44   i want is a drink without a thumb in it [TS]

00:31:45   like that's not it that's not a [TS]

00:31:46   preference right that's not a disorder [TS]

00:31:48   that's just it's just a normal human [TS]

00:31:51   request what I mean you've read Guns [TS]

00:31:54   Germs and Steel it's good for you it's [TS]

00:31:55   good for you getting a bit of those gems [TS]

00:31:57   in every day you're building up immunity [TS]

00:31:58   i live in the middle of London I get [TS]

00:32:00   plenty of germs as it is I don't need [TS]

00:32:02   extra germs in my drink in the morning [TS]

00:32:04   this is not what I need this is not what [TS]

00:32:06   i need to do you remember when i [TS]

00:32:07   messaged you that picture i took of [TS]

00:32:09   mcdonalds with that woman who put her [TS]

00:32:10   kid on the counter [TS]

00:32:12   haha oh god that was that was the group [TS]

00:32:14   that was that some kids sitting with [TS]

00:32:16   their bomb on the counter where all the [TS]

00:32:17   food was being served up and I was so [TS]

00:32:20   hot even I was horrified by that [TS]

00:32:22   so first thing I did was took a photo [TS]

00:32:23   and send to the gray yeah thanks just [TS]

00:32:26   looked it's just a mess with your head [TS]

00:32:27   it's just a mess with your head knowing [TS]

00:32:31   that something bad was happening [TS]

00:32:32   somewhere in the world its just look all [TS]

00:32:37   I want is for everything in the world to [TS]

00:32:39   go exactly the way I wanted to go [TS]

00:32:40   is that too much to ask I don't think so [TS]

00:32:43   in this moment of madness i decided i [TS]

00:32:48   wouldn't it be great to have an atari [TS]

00:32:49   2600 again and I was just about to [TS]

00:32:52   search for them on ebay and then I [TS]

00:32:54   thought I bet you someone's made a [TS]

00:32:56   website where you can play all these [TS]

00:32:57   games you know I'd java or something [TS]

00:32:59   because they're all so simple as that [TS]

00:33:01   welcome to the world of emulators Brady [TS]

00:33:03   this is a big deal on the internet I [TS]

00:33:06   found this great sorry and i was able to [TS]

00:33:08   go back and start playing all these old [TS]

00:33:10   Atari games and as is always the case [TS]

00:33:12   you know you play them for 10 seconds [TS]

00:33:14   and you realize that was a bit line but [TS]

00:33:16   I i did have a great nostalgia dose and [TS]

00:33:20   one of them pit which I mentioned pit [TS]

00:33:22   photo and I actually have got into [TS]

00:33:24   playing a little bit probably I probably [TS]

00:33:26   bird half an hour 45 minutes playing it [TS]

00:33:29   will have the ladder go yeah-yeah-yeah [TS]

00:33:31   and i will keep i'll keep playing it [TS]

00:33:33   occasionally so who knew her Lincoln [TS]

00:33:36   will put a link in the show notes go and [TS]

00:33:38   play pitfall to people this is a game [TS]

00:33:40   that gave me so much happiness and it's [TS]

00:33:42   giving me happiness again [TS]

00:33:43   the thing that I love about this as you [TS]

00:33:44   asked me last time for a game [TS]

00:33:46   recommendation that would get you into [TS]

00:33:48   gaming but maybe [TS]

00:33:50   iffy if the Atari 2600 that is going to [TS]

00:33:54   be the thing that gets you back into [TS]

00:33:55   gaming maybe over the next few years [TS]

00:33:57   Brady you can rework your way through [TS]

00:33:59   your entire childhood all the way back [TS]

00:34:02   up to the Tomb Raider series at some [TS]

00:34:03   point I am I am doing a bit i did put a [TS]

00:34:06   bid on ebay for one of those donkey kong [TS]

00:34:09   lcds you like I got outbid at the last [TS]

00:34:12   minute it went over 60 quid i might get [TS]

00:34:18   one now because I just wanna I wanna [TS]

00:34:20   play you want to play it and feel like a [TS]

00:34:22   guard again that's what yeah what will [TS]

00:34:23   much like much like that story from last [TS]

00:34:25   time that Duncan when I did play pitfall [TS]

00:34:27   to again it was amazing how easy i found [TS]

00:34:29   that like like things things that i [TS]

00:34:32   spent weeks and weeks trying to crack [TS]

00:34:34   just was so easy now so that really [TS]

00:34:36   fleshed out what you said about maybe [TS]

00:34:38   our brains just to get those games in a [TS]

00:34:41   different way than when we were younger [TS]

00:34:42   yeah and I think you're playing [TS]

00:34:43   particularly simple games as well yeah [TS]

00:34:47   i'm willing to bet like some of my [TS]

00:34:49   frustrating memories on Super Nintendo [TS]

00:34:51   games or gameboy games and I was kid [TS]

00:34:53   like I'm willing to bet if I went back [TS]

00:34:54   and tried to play some of those now I [TS]

00:34:55   would find them still quite challenging [TS]

00:34:57   prep but you old man playing video games [TS]

00:35:01   the dawn of video games you can always [TS]

00:35:03   just the simplest most basic thing that [TS]

00:35:05   you can imagine how ever told you about [TS]

00:35:07   my greatest month of gaming ever know it [TS]

00:35:09   would have been in 1998 gather round [TS]

00:35:13   children can you feel be settling back [TS]

00:35:16   with my pipe and my red setter and [TS]

00:35:18   precisely what I could be like you are [TS]

00:35:21   you are gearing up for a grand par level [TS]

00:35:23   of story here [TS]

00:35:24   I know it was 98 because this was a year [TS]

00:35:26   of the world cup of football or soccer [TS]

00:35:29   VA and my housemate at the time and I [TS]

00:35:32   were both huge fans of soccer and we [TS]

00:35:35   built up lots of leave from her job [TS]

00:35:37   we work together now we both took the [TS]

00:35:39   entire month off so that we could watch [TS]

00:35:41   the world cup and the world cup was at [TS]

00:35:44   night because it wasn't but it was being [TS]

00:35:46   held in France so we we blacked out the [TS]

00:35:48   whole house we put like sheets / / [TS]

00:35:52   windows so the house was permanently [TS]

00:35:53   dark and we basically switched to [TS]

00:35:55   european time although we were living in [TS]

00:35:57   Australia so so we slept during the day [TS]

00:36:01   and then we would wake up for like [TS]

00:36:02   in the afternoon getting ready to watch [TS]

00:36:04   the world cup games during the World Cup [TS]

00:36:06   is usually like maybe two games per [TS]

00:36:08   night and they last 90 minutes so you've [TS]

00:36:11   got a lot of other time during the night [TS]

00:36:13   so we we set up all these TVs through [TS]

00:36:17   the house and we hired a projector to to [TS]

00:36:20   project this huge screen onto one of our [TS]

00:36:23   worlds at a time when having a video [TS]

00:36:24   projector was a pretty big deal [TS]

00:36:26   no you had to go and rent one and [TS]

00:36:28   basically when we weren't watching these [TS]

00:36:29   huge soccer games up on the world we [TS]

00:36:32   were just playing games all the time [TS]

00:36:33   usually upon that massive screen up on [TS]

00:36:35   the world like like like like old all [TS]

00:36:38   day and all night and then all their [TS]

00:36:41   mates were coming over in the night [TS]

00:36:42   because they're working during the day [TS]

00:36:43   but they would come in the night and [TS]

00:36:45   play games with us all night and we [TS]

00:36:47   would have all these tourneys and things [TS]

00:36:49   like that and we also had a pool table [TS]

00:36:51   and we would have liked pool table [TS]

00:36:53   tournaments going on simultaneously with [TS]

00:36:55   videogame tournaments and in that room [TS]

00:36:58   over there that'd be a golden our [TS]

00:36:59   tournament going on and let the house [TS]

00:37:01   was just this intense hub of games [TS]

00:37:06   between soccer matches for like I could [TS]

00:37:08   a complete month I didn't even want to [TS]

00:37:11   think about what I must have ate in that [TS]

00:37:12   month but it kind of been healthy you [TS]

00:37:15   are making me so envious for the freedom [TS]

00:37:17   of youth right now I know I know [TS]

00:37:19   listening to this story [TS]

00:37:21   I mean I'm sure some of our listeners [TS]

00:37:23   are horrified at the thought of what a [TS]

00:37:24   house with a bunch of guys have been [TS]

00:37:27   where the windows have been blacked out [TS]

00:37:29   with to protect her up on the screen [TS]

00:37:31   like I'm sure there's a people like [TS]

00:37:33   imagining the horror of the pieces smell [TS]

00:37:35   and and the beer and the guys but but i [TS]

00:37:38   think if you are a certain kind of guy [TS]

00:37:40   like even the sports part of this to me [TS]

00:37:42   like I can get behind this whole notion [TS]

00:37:44   of like you know what I'm just taking a [TS]

00:37:46   month out of my life for a certain kind [TS]

00:37:49   of male hedonism and it is going to be [TS]

00:37:52   amazing [TS]

00:37:54   you know what the worst thing is [TS]

00:37:55   normally a shame that this I was [TS]

00:37:57   thinking about earlier today and at that [TS]

00:37:59   time my house might had a girlfriend who [TS]

00:38:03   lived with us and I can't remember where [TS]

00:38:06   she was or what she did at home but like [TS]

00:38:09   like because she obviously didn't take [TS]

00:38:10   the map valve and when she living I [TS]

00:38:13   I have no memory of her like where she [TS]

00:38:16   was going on but I remember him and him [TS]

00:38:20   and I sitting on these two big brown [TS]

00:38:21   chairs and just playing games like 24 7 [TS]

00:38:24   yeah but like what was she doing shield [TS]

00:38:26   out this is she just going to live with [TS]

00:38:28   her family from I have I have no [TS]

00:38:30   recollection whatever doesn't matter [TS]

00:38:32   right what matters was the glorious [TS]

00:38:34   month of game did break up after that so [TS]

00:38:38   maybe that explains something that never [TS]

00:38:40   worth it though i'm sure it's worth it [TS]

00:38:43   while great month to be young to be [TS]

00:38:48   young looking at me any element [TS]

00:38:51   listeners out there if you get the [TS]

00:38:53   opportunity to take a month off from [TS]

00:38:55   your life to go all-in on gaming do it [TS]

00:38:59   you you won't regret it when you're [TS]

00:39:00   older [TS]

00:39:01   do you know what the worst thing is we [TS]

00:39:02   could probably get away with doing that [TS]

00:39:04   now [TS]

00:39:04   the closest I ever came to that was I [TS]

00:39:06   can't remember it was at a year or two [TS]

00:39:09   after a year or two after i went [TS]

00:39:11   full-time with with the YouTube there [TS]

00:39:14   was one summer where I I thought that [TS]

00:39:17   event there was a video game that i had [TS]

00:39:18   been holding off playing for forever [TS]

00:39:21   because i assume that it was going to be [TS]

00:39:23   like heroin from my brain which was [TS]

00:39:25   world of warcraft and I knew like I'm a [TS]

00:39:28   responsible adult [TS]

00:39:30   I can't take heroin and I can't play [TS]

00:39:32   World of Warcraft like these two things [TS]

00:39:33   were filed in my brain under the same [TS]

00:39:35   kind of like might be really enjoyable [TS]

00:39:37   but also a terrible idea kind of thing [TS]

00:39:40   but but one summer I camera exactly what [TS]

00:39:43   the details were but basically like i [TS]

00:39:45   was at my parents in north carolina for [TS]

00:39:48   some unusual period of time I don't [TS]

00:39:50   remember why but my wife wasn't with me [TS]

00:39:52   and that was like I'm self-employed I [TS]

00:39:55   have no adult responsibilities in the [TS]

00:39:56   world like I suddenly found myself with [TS]

00:39:58   three weeks of just nothing and I [TS]

00:40:01   thought boy if I'm ever gonna if I'm [TS]

00:40:03   ever going to do this now is the time [TS]

00:40:05   right so so I rolled up my arm i found a [TS]

00:40:09   vein and i installed world of warcraft [TS]

00:40:11   onto my computer and I started playing [TS]

00:40:14   and it was it was just delightful like [TS]

00:40:19   it was really great [TS]

00:40:21   I i quite enjoyed it like we discussed [TS]

00:40:23   last time with miss like I had a real [TS]

00:40:25   sense of place where [TS]

00:40:27   of warcraft I was the worst world of [TS]

00:40:28   warcraft player ever because I just [TS]

00:40:30   wanted to ride around on my horse and [TS]

00:40:31   explore the world but it was just great [TS]

00:40:33   i like I totally got into that for a for [TS]

00:40:36   about two weeks and then world of [TS]

00:40:38   warcraft is exactly that kind of game [TS]

00:40:40   where I was playing playing playing and [TS]

00:40:42   then all of a sudden I totally lost [TS]

00:40:43   interest in it and thank God I did [TS]

00:40:47   because otherwise I might have lost my [TS]

00:40:49   whole life to it but luckily i found it [TS]

00:40:52   very boring in a short space of time and [TS]

00:40:54   thus i still have a career and a wife [TS]

00:40:56   and a family not like it's just living [TS]

00:41:00   living in a hovel somewhere with an [TS]

00:41:02   internet connection earning just enough [TS]

00:41:04   money to keep the game on [TS]

00:41:07   huh anyway games they're fun and like [TS]

00:41:13   drugs maybe it's really easy to thank [TS]

00:41:16   the sponsor likes Squarespace because [TS]

00:41:18   they've got a great product and we [TS]

00:41:19   actually use it [TS]

00:41:20   I'm a paying Squarespace customer i use [TS]

00:41:22   them pretty much everyday both to update [TS]

00:41:25   my own blog and the podcast postcard [TS]

00:41:28   website where we're showcasing your [TS]

00:41:29   votes from the flag referendum I know [TS]

00:41:32   great also use including for the hello [TS]

00:41:34   internet website itself [TS]

00:41:36   Squarespace just make it so easy to [TS]

00:41:38   create and then maintain professional [TS]

00:41:40   looking pages if you like to give them a [TS]

00:41:42   try go to squarespace.com and then enter [TS]

00:41:45   the code hello at checkout and you'll [TS]

00:41:48   get ten percent off your first purchase [TS]

00:41:50   but you don't have to make up your mind [TS]

00:41:51   straight away Squarespace even lets you [TS]

00:41:53   design your site get a feel for how it [TS]

00:41:55   looks [TS]

00:41:56   how it all works before you make any [TS]

00:41:57   kind of commitment so no matter what [TS]

00:41:59   you've got in mind a blog TV a portfolio [TS]

00:42:02   a podcast maybe there's something you [TS]

00:42:05   want to sell an online store [TS]

00:42:07   Squarespace is the all in one place to [TS]

00:42:09   get all those things done [TS]

00:42:11   I've got a bunch of professionally [TS]

00:42:12   designed templates to get you started [TS]

00:42:14   and then you can really customize the [TS]

00:42:16   heck out of them if you want make them [TS]

00:42:17   look your own or you can leave them as [TS]

00:42:19   they are they look really good already [TS]

00:42:21   or if you're one of those people who [TS]

00:42:22   looks really getting into the hole and [TS]

00:42:24   putting in some of your own code you can [TS]

00:42:26   do that too seriously i'm recommending [TS]

00:42:28   Squarespace to everyone my friends my [TS]

00:42:30   family even professional people who ask [TS]

00:42:32   me about designing a website i say don't [TS]

00:42:34   talk to me just go to squarespace i do [TS]

00:42:37   tell them to use the code hello [TS]

00:42:38   Squarespace also have an app on your [TS]

00:42:40   phone so you can maintain things when [TS]

00:42:42   you're out and about having real life [TS]

00:42:43   adventures if something's gone wrong or [TS]

00:42:46   maybe you just want to do a quick post [TS]

00:42:48   you can do that out in the field so once [TS]

00:42:50   again go to squarespace.com and if you [TS]

00:42:53   decide to go for it use that code hello [TS]

00:42:55   to get ten percent of your first [TS]

00:42:57   purchase and also lets them know you [TS]

00:42:59   were sent by your old pals gray and [TS]

00:43:01   Brady out thanks once again to [TS]

00:43:02   squarespace for supporting hello [TS]

00:43:04   internet there's a small iphone oh yes [TS]

00:43:09   it's not rubbish and are a lot of people [TS]

00:43:11   have been messaging me about this [TS]

00:43:12   because obviously i I'm not so much a [TS]

00:43:15   fan of the Big phone i have a what if I [TS]

00:43:19   got a 64 bit about your equipment that i [TS]

00:43:23   can remember them [TS]

00:43:24   what's the negative Jack I've got the [TS]

00:43:26   one that's not the not the silly big one [TS]

00:43:28   just the roots moderately to big one [TS]

00:43:31   just the annoyingly big one you have you [TS]

00:43:33   have the six or the 6s depending on when [TS]

00:43:35   you got it that's what you have ready [TS]

00:43:36   and the funny thing is I always thought [TS]

00:43:40   because obviously i I'm just holding it [TS]

00:43:42   now to sort of practice because I hold [TS]

00:43:43   my phone one-handed and I do this you [TS]

00:43:46   know pinky under the under the base [TS]

00:43:48   thing I've never been able to reach the [TS]

00:43:50   top with my thumb and I one of these [TS]

00:43:53   people who sometimes has to do the [TS]

00:43:54   double press to bring all the icons down [TS]

00:43:56   lower and or just sort of stretch in [TS]

00:44:00   vain trying to reach that top and I [TS]

00:44:02   always thought well obviously over a few [TS]

00:44:04   months my habits will change i would [TS]

00:44:06   just learn to use this new thing I'll [TS]

00:44:08   somehow adapt and you know what it never [TS]

00:44:11   happened [TS]

00:44:11   it's still annoys me I still can't use [TS]

00:44:14   it its it's still a minor annoyance [TS]

00:44:16   everyday the size of the thing and now [TS]

00:44:19   there's this new iphone [TS]

00:44:21   that's the size of the five which I [TS]

00:44:23   always liked and apparently has the [TS]

00:44:25   power of the six and i'm in an [TS]

00:44:28   interesting position here i'm thinking [TS]

00:44:30   do you know I talked about i said if i [TS]

00:44:34   made a smaller one that was powerful [TS]

00:44:35   that like I've talked the talk am I now [TS]

00:44:38   gonna walk the walk [TS]

00:44:39   I'm not surprised about what you just [TS]

00:44:41   said there about how you never got used [TS]

00:44:43   to that size because that that is why [TS]

00:44:46   and I know what whatever wasn't on the [TS]

00:44:48   episode where we originally discussed it [TS]

00:44:49   we're after [TS]

00:44:50   for nine months of using that six sighs [TS]

00:44:54   I eventually switch the six plus because [TS]

00:44:55   i just found driving me crazy every day [TS]

00:44:58   like and just could I could never get [TS]

00:45:00   used to it either i hated that size and [TS]

00:45:04   yeah i think it's like that size is just [TS]

00:45:06   the absolute wrong size for a phone my [TS]

00:45:09   thought has always been it's like okay [TS]

00:45:11   well I think there's only two size [TS]

00:45:13   choices here there's the plus size [TS]

00:45:16   because then your brain just treats it [TS]

00:45:18   as a different thing and you use two [TS]

00:45:19   hands or there's the five size but [TS]

00:45:23   you're right that it's always been slow [TS]

00:45:25   and small and i think it's it's really [TS]

00:45:27   interesting that they've come out with [TS]

00:45:29   this new small phone and what do you [TS]

00:45:36   think you're going to do Brady well I [TS]

00:45:38   mean I'm definitely not going to get a 6 [TS]

00:45:40   plus so I think they're silly it's like [TS]

00:45:41   driving around in a clown car haven't [TS]

00:45:43   found that big yet that's exactly what [TS]

00:45:45   it's like yet but going to the small 1i [TS]

00:45:48   do realize the first time I go into the [TS]

00:45:50   shop and look at what I'm going to think [TS]

00:45:52   bro it's tiny and and get freaked out [TS]

00:45:55   but i know this is silly because like my [TS]

00:45:58   whole job is technology and I'm really [TS]

00:45:59   addicted to the internet and email and [TS]

00:46:01   social media but I am but having having [TS]

00:46:04   admitted there i am feeling a real push [TS]

00:46:06   back from technology at the moment and I [TS]

00:46:09   think having a smaller phone might help [TS]

00:46:10   me feel a bit more disengaged i'll still [TS]

00:46:13   be checking my email all the time and [TS]

00:46:14   things like that but i think having a [TS]

00:46:16   smaller phone might just I think I might [TS]

00:46:19   like the feeling of that [TS]

00:46:20   mhm and I definitely would like the [TS]

00:46:22   ergonomics other and I think it's cool [TS]

00:46:24   that i have a small phone and not have [TS]

00:46:25   this big phone in your pocket all the [TS]

00:46:27   time and I do like the idea of being at [TS]

00:46:30   my computer is technology time and being [TS]

00:46:32   away from my computer is no technology [TS]

00:46:34   time and I still got my phone so I can [TS]

00:46:37   still answer phone calls and get texts [TS]

00:46:38   and check emails but it would become i [TS]

00:46:41   can imagine it will go back to being a [TS]

00:46:42   smaller part of my life and I quite like [TS]

00:46:45   that might be a fantasy [TS]

00:46:47   yeah but in this sort of idealized [TS]

00:46:49   version of me in my head right having a [TS]

00:46:51   smaller phone and make you know and [TS]

00:46:53   mechanical watching everything i'll be [TS]

00:46:54   more a man of the amount of the wild you [TS]

00:46:57   know and not such a not such a [TS]

00:47:00   technology addict so that that appeals [TS]

00:47:02   to me [TS]

00:47:02   I just like the look and the feel of the [TS]

00:47:04   smaller phone i just think it's not it's [TS]

00:47:06   a nicer object it feels more like [TS]

00:47:07   something that should be in my hand in [TS]

00:47:10   my pocket the six feels a little bit too [TS]

00:47:12   big and i don't like using it the two [TS]

00:47:14   things that will stop me getting smaller [TS]

00:47:16   phone one I don't need a new phone at [TS]

00:47:20   the moment my current phones fine so I [TS]

00:47:23   don't need one and the second thing is i [TS]

00:47:26   do use my phone to watch videos [TS]

00:47:29   sometimes for work purposes other people [TS]

00:47:33   sometimes help me with videos and they [TS]

00:47:34   do like rough edits for me and I have to [TS]

00:47:36   watch them a lot and quite often that [TS]

00:47:38   something i do first thing in the [TS]

00:47:40   morning like I wake up and I just have [TS]

00:47:41   my phone in bed another day [TS]

00:47:43   alright I've got 15 minutes i'll watch [TS]

00:47:45   this video and give some feedback and [TS]

00:47:47   some notes on it and that feels like an [TS]

00:47:49   important use of my phone when i watch [TS]

00:47:51   video and I don't know what it would be [TS]

00:47:53   like watching video on the five after [TS]

00:47:55   being used to the six it's a conundrum [TS]

00:47:59   I think what has happened here because i [TS]

00:48:03   have also always thought like man if [TS]

00:48:06   Apple made a small phone again I would [TS]

00:48:08   seriously consider it [TS]

00:48:10   I would seriously consider it because to [TS]

00:48:12   me the six plus I like the six plus but [TS]

00:48:16   that's in comparison to the 6 i'm [TS]

00:48:19   constantly annoyed by how big it is in [TS]

00:48:21   my pocket and I'm aware of it as this [TS]

00:48:23   huge object that I carry around all the [TS]

00:48:27   time and so when they came out with that [TS]

00:48:30   with the new small Phonak I was [TS]

00:48:34   seriously seriously tempted by that and [TS]

00:48:38   to you like I i'm aware that because of [TS]

00:48:40   some of the because of some of the [TS]

00:48:42   equipment changes in my life I don't use [TS]

00:48:45   my phone all that much anymore i'm not [TS]

00:48:49   actively using it for a lot of things [TS]

00:48:52   much more using my iPad pro now like [TS]

00:48:56   that's the main device and I very often [TS]

00:48:59   just have that with me wherever I happen [TS]

00:49:00   to be or from going out and working like [TS]

00:49:02   I can take that with me and so I feel [TS]

00:49:03   like I don't have a need so much for [TS]

00:49:06   this big phone and it's like man I would [TS]

00:49:09   really just love something small and [TS]

00:49:11   minimal that I can have [TS]

00:49:12   in my pocket plus as we have mentioned [TS]

00:49:13   many many a time the iphone 6 design is [TS]

00:49:17   ugly and horrible and slippery and the [TS]

00:49:19   new one is like oh this is the old [TS]

00:49:21   design which looks great like you know [TS]

00:49:22   you can hold it nice and firmly [TS]

00:49:24   everything about this appeals to me [TS]

00:49:26   except for one thing which I'm which is [TS]

00:49:30   I feel like is the deal breaker i am [TS]

00:49:32   convinced that this phone is going to be [TS]

00:49:36   like what the old iphone see was where [TS]

00:49:39   Apple is making a small cheap phone that [TS]

00:49:46   they intend to be people's first iphone [TS]

00:49:49   that they're going to keep around for [TS]

00:49:51   years and years and years [TS]

00:49:53   so what I think is that this line is not [TS]

00:49:57   going to be updated in a long time like [TS]

00:50:00   I think two or three years from now [TS]

00:50:02   Apple is still going to be selling this [TS]

00:50:03   exact phone and so to me that like [TS]

00:50:06   that's the thing that I would feel [TS]

00:50:07   worried about is like boy i'm pretty [TS]

00:50:10   sure i could fall in love with the small [TS]

00:50:12   phone again i think i would be a lot [TS]

00:50:14   happier with the small phone but what [TS]

00:50:16   I'm not happy for is signing up for two [TS]

00:50:19   or three years of wondering if and when [TS]

00:50:22   Apple is ever going to update the small [TS]

00:50:24   one again you can always jump back up if [TS]

00:50:26   they don't upgrade and say well okay [TS]

00:50:27   that was a fun to your fling i guess i'm [TS]

00:50:30   going to go back to the big winner [TS]

00:50:32   maybe you have a point there but i am [TS]

00:50:34   not a person who very often goes [TS]

00:50:35   backwards in technology [TS]

00:50:37   yeah I mean you know and you know i'm [TS]

00:50:38   the same you know me with my silly i [TS]

00:50:40   want the pro you know that that's why [TS]

00:50:43   hasn't that's why having a suspect up [TS]

00:50:45   smaller phone is what suddenly appeals [TS]

00:50:48   if they if they you know you can get you [TS]

00:50:51   know crappy five now and I I've never [TS]

00:50:53   consider getting one of them but if I [TS]

00:50:54   can have one that has you know that is [TS]

00:50:57   comparable to the highest spec editor I [TS]

00:51:00   don't know what to do well he knows you [TS]

00:51:02   still totally on board with the Apple [TS]

00:51:04   watch like is that is that it for you [TS]

00:51:05   for life like you you're like yes yes [TS]

00:51:07   yes oh yeah I wear my Apple watch every [TS]

00:51:10   day i love my Apple watch that I felt [TS]

00:51:14   like last year was there was a real like [TS]

00:51:16   winning year for me with apples like I [TS]

00:51:18   love the ipad pro and the pencil that [TS]

00:51:20   they came out with and i love the watch [TS]

00:51:22   like I wear it every day I [TS]

00:51:25   can't imagine being without it I could [TS]

00:51:27   totally changes the way that I use the [TS]

00:51:29   phone [TS]

00:51:29   it's actually because of the watch that [TS]

00:51:31   I use the phone a lot less i got i just [TS]

00:51:34   really like it for getting notifications [TS]

00:51:36   and for triaging information that comes [TS]

00:51:39   from my phone i I just I love everything [TS]

00:51:41   about it i'm still all in on that even [TS]

00:51:43   though you think that I am like the [TS]

00:51:46   Emperor with my new clothes and my fancy [TS]

00:51:47   watch and I think it's dumb [TS]

00:51:49   you should get one yeah I'm actually [TS]

00:51:52   starting to really seriously look at [TS]

00:51:53   another mechanical watch both course you [TS]

00:51:55   are of course you are ever in every [TS]

00:51:58   every time I every time I look at one [TS]

00:52:00   that I feel could be good enough to sort [TS]

00:52:03   of you know have some risk time I just [TS]

00:52:06   look again at my speedmaster thing I [TS]

00:52:08   left my watch i just wanna wear it [TS]

00:52:10   everyday [TS]

00:52:10   why would I want to get another watch [TS]

00:52:12   and then I look at the other wasn't [TS]

00:52:13   going to but then asked to you can't you [TS]

00:52:16   not your night watchman arguments that's [TS]

00:52:18   not what you are baby but I am that [TS]

00:52:20   that's that's the thing i think i think [TS]

00:52:21   i have a roving eye but i am number who [TS]

00:52:25   so yeah is the one in particular that [TS]

00:52:29   has your icon at this moment [TS]

00:52:31   well I'd rather not talk about it at the [TS]

00:52:34   moment [TS]

00:52:34   ok so it's a personal issue is very [TS]

00:52:36   personal okay yeah there are there are [TS]

00:52:39   there are a few there are a few that I'm [TS]

00:52:41   looking at the thing I wanted to ask you [TS]

00:52:43   in sort of a amongst you know Apple [TS]

00:52:47   watches and apple experts because i know [TS]

00:52:49   it was very secretive about such things [TS]

00:52:51   is the general consensus that the Apple [TS]

00:52:53   watch has been a success or failure or [TS]

00:52:56   middling I feel like it hasn't taken the [TS]

00:52:58   work well it certainly hasn't taken the [TS]

00:53:00   world by storm the way that the iphone [TS]

00:53:01   did for example but like is it [TS]

00:53:04   considered to have been you know a [TS]

00:53:05   triumph for Tim cooker is it always the [TS]

00:53:08   jury out oh what's the consensus among [TS]

00:53:10   people who know more than me i don't [TS]

00:53:12   know what the consensus is that I mean [TS]

00:53:14   everybody has their own personal opinion [TS]

00:53:15   on the Apple watch like people like it [TS]

00:53:17   or they don't i don't know but apples [TS]

00:53:18   like sort of secretive with their sales [TS]

00:53:20   numbers and and they're always a bit [TS]

00:53:21   vague about how much they've done with [TS]

00:53:24   it so I i don't know i don't have a good [TS]

00:53:25   sense of like do they think it's been a [TS]

00:53:27   huge success like for what they were [TS]

00:53:31   aiming for I have no idea for that the [TS]

00:53:34   only thing that I am really aware of [TS]

00:53:36   is how i would expect in a city like [TS]

00:53:39   London to see more of them around and [TS]

00:53:42   I'm kind of aware that i don't see very [TS]

00:53:45   many around and and the place in [TS]

00:53:47   particular i'm always looking is in my [TS]

00:53:50   gym like I'm at a relatively big jim [TS]

00:53:53   there's lots of people and I feel like [TS]

00:53:54   this has to be ground zero for seeing [TS]

00:53:57   Apple watch's right we're like the [TS]

00:53:58   overlap of people who go to gyms and [TS]

00:54:01   people who are interested in a high-tech [TS]

00:54:03   fitness tracker that overlap has to be [TS]

00:54:05   pretty big and i have never seen anyone [TS]

00:54:08   there with an Apple watch except for me [TS]

00:54:10   I know what shows are more discreet and [TS]

00:54:13   then and so you might not notice what [TS]

00:54:14   watch people are worried but I do look [TS]

00:54:16   at what is probably more than the [TS]

00:54:17   average person and I just thought but I [TS]

00:54:19   just thought by now I'd be saying loads [TS]

00:54:21   of them and i'm not and that's what [TS]

00:54:22   makes me think is is this bit of a bomb [TS]

00:54:24   because I'm not worked [TS]

00:54:26   appleseed bullish about it and I mean [TS]

00:54:27   I'd never admit value with day but they [TS]

00:54:30   talk like it's successful and I don't [TS]

00:54:32   hear people i don't see in the media [TS]

00:54:33   reports saying it's been this big flop [TS]

00:54:35   and I can't figure out where they all [TS]

00:54:37   out because i'm not saying them i like [TS]

00:54:39   you like I always look at people's [TS]

00:54:42   watches like I think it's interesting to [TS]

00:54:43   see what people whereas as watches with [TS]

00:54:45   people select like it's an interesting [TS]

00:54:46   item on people always looking at [TS]

00:54:49   people's technology and the most times I [TS]

00:54:52   ever see an Apple watch is someone using [TS]

00:54:54   it like idea what Apple pay at like a [TS]

00:54:56   prince getting a coffee or something but [TS]

00:54:59   even then it's very rare and it's [TS]

00:55:00   notable when I when I see someone do it [TS]

00:55:03   so I just I just don't know I wonder if [TS]

00:55:06   it's going to be like what the appletv [TS]

00:55:09   was for a while like Apple had this [TS]

00:55:10   product that they manufactured that they [TS]

00:55:13   clearly didn't sell a ton of but they [TS]

00:55:15   sold enough that they thought it was [TS]

00:55:17   worthwhile that they thought that they [TS]

00:55:18   thought I will keep doing it [TS]

00:55:20   I do wonder when the version 2 will come [TS]

00:55:23   out and when I can give Apple my money [TS]

00:55:26   for their version two [TS]

00:55:29   so believe it or not there are still [TS]

00:55:31   late votes coming in to our post box for [TS]

00:55:34   the flag referendum I believe it because [TS]

00:55:36   you solicit them you would like oh [TS]

00:55:40   you're acting like it's some kind of is [TS]

00:55:42   a big surprise i'm still getting roads [TS]

00:55:43   like what do you want the votes you told [TS]

00:55:45   the people that they should always send [TS]

00:55:46   in the votes [TS]

00:55:47   you mentioned that whether you go or [TS]

00:55:49   look at these leaflets coming and I [TS]

00:55:50   can't believe it but you're implicitly [TS]

00:55:52   asking for for more late votes when you [TS]

00:55:54   tweet people's League votes you know but [TS]

00:55:56   just because I'm asking for it doesn't [TS]

00:55:57   mean i can't be surprised when it [TS]

00:55:59   actually happens [TS]

00:56:01   ok you can choose to be surprised you [TS]

00:56:03   can choose to be surprised but anyway I [TS]

00:56:05   went and picked up the latest batch the [TS]

00:56:07   other day and there was a package [TS]

00:56:11   amongst the postcards which I opened and [TS]

00:56:15   it had come from China and it was it [TS]

00:56:18   didn't say who had come from and I [TS]

00:56:20   opened it up and it was a printed flag [TS]

00:56:23   which i unfold and it turns out it was [TS]

00:56:27   flag flag someone had had made in china [TS]

00:56:31   a proper flag version of flag flag and [TS]

00:56:35   sent it to me which i think is advanced [TS]

00:56:38   ninja mischief-making yeah I've had that [TS]

00:56:40   flag made and sent it to me [TS]

00:56:42   yeah the rebel flag it's close to [TS]

00:56:45   treason you having that flag reading [TS]

00:56:47   very close to trees that I wouldn't say [TS]

00:56:53   it strays and nothing as part of a part [TS]

00:56:55   of a healthy and robust democracy that [TS]

00:56:58   we're creating that you know is a symbol [TS]

00:57:01   of the freedom of hello Internet has to [TS]

00:57:03   include people making rebel flags [TS]

00:57:06   I do i do have to admit that I quite [TS]

00:57:09   enjoy all the various versions of rebels [TS]

00:57:13   vs Empire photoshopping that goes on [TS]

00:57:15   between the two flags like those never [TS]

00:57:17   don't make me smile like all of the [TS]

00:57:18   different versions are people take Civil [TS]

00:57:20   War pictures right r star wars or [TS]

00:57:22   whatever it's like man do I love me some [TS]

00:57:25   photoshopbattles and flag flag and [TS]

00:57:27   nailing gear make for some excellent [TS]

00:57:29   photoshopbattles oh yeah I haven't been [TS]

00:57:32   45 insane like this you can have to [TS]

00:57:33   point me in the direction i will have to [TS]

00:57:35   send you some of them i have saved I've [TS]

00:57:37   saved a few of them but of course this [TS]

00:57:40   brings us to [TS]

00:57:41   the big big flag news of the year now [TS]

00:57:46   because I because i have a flag use last [TS]

00:57:48   year wasn't it was it so that's that was [TS]

00:57:50   the big flag news of last year [TS]

00:57:52   yeah of course the everyone in the flag [TS]

00:57:53   world knew about our flag referendum [TS]

00:57:55   yeah like world was abuzz with the [TS]

00:57:57   halloween a podcast flag referendum yeah [TS]

00:58:00   so hot on the heels of that we now have [TS]

00:58:03   the final result of the superbowl the [TS]

00:58:06   flags [TS]

00:58:07   yes the New Zealand flag referendum the [TS]

00:58:10   dramatic conclusion i was i was awake [TS]

00:58:12   and live-tweeting the results at seven [TS]

00:58:16   thirty this morning [TS]

00:58:17   wow that's impressive yeah you know you [TS]

00:58:20   know it's a big big story when it gets [TS]

00:58:22   through grace bubble [TS]

00:58:23   yeah that's that's how big this flag [TS]

00:58:25   story is yeah [TS]

00:58:26   world news world news so the so the [TS]

00:58:30   ham-fisted poorly desired crazily chosen [TS]

00:58:37   fern flag that one the sort of [TS]

00:58:39   challenges contests [TS]

00:58:42   what do you really think about a break [TS]

00:58:44   that that flag was pitted up against the [TS]

00:58:48   traditional existing New Zealand flag [TS]

00:58:51   right to decide are they going to go for [TS]

00:58:54   something new or are they going to stick [TS]

00:58:56   with what they've had for years with the [TS]

00:58:58   with the Union Jack on it and I know and [TS]

00:59:01   a very very close resemblance to the [TS]

00:59:03   Australian flag and the people of New [TS]

00:59:06   Zealand had the choice one or the other [TS]

00:59:08   and the people in New Zealand spoken the [TS]

00:59:11   results came in looking at the [TS]

00:59:13   provisional election count right now for [TS]

00:59:17   the second referendum on New Zealand [TS]

00:59:19   flag and the current New Zealand flag [TS]

00:59:24   150 6.6 percent 240 three-point-two [TS]

00:59:30   percent so New Zealand is going to keep [TS]

00:59:33   their current flag design so after all [TS]

00:59:36   those millions of dollars and debate and [TS]

00:59:40   controversies and contests and votes and [TS]

00:59:44   everything status quo [TS]

00:59:46   yeah well that's because they picked a [TS]

00:59:48   terrible flash okay thank you [TS]

00:59:50   they better with Darfur I've said it [TS]

00:59:54   once and I'll say again they had one job [TS]

00:59:57   get that black flag with a firm [TS]

00:59:57   get that black flag with a firm [TS]

01:00:00   now that make that your flag job done [TS]

01:00:02   and somehow i don't know what happened [TS]

01:00:05   in some ways it's the most unsurprising [TS]

01:00:07   thing in the world to be sitting here [TS]

01:00:08   right now we're like people stuck with [TS]

01:00:10   their terrible New Zealand flag and in [TS]

01:00:13   other ways I feel like you'd like I [TS]

01:00:14   can't believe this didn't go the way [TS]

01:00:16   that it obviously was supposed to go [TS]

01:00:20   it's it's it's the Australian referendum [TS]

01:00:23   about becoming a republic all over again [TS]

01:00:25   yeah like it feels like there was a will [TS]

01:00:28   to do something but but the the vote [TS]

01:00:33   amongst the people that want to change [TS]

01:00:34   was split and fragmented to a point [TS]

01:00:37   where they just said stuff this let's [TS]

01:00:40   just keep everything the way it is and [TS]

01:00:42   where there's also reminds me of again [TS]

01:00:44   is the referendum in the UK about [TS]

01:00:46   changing the voting system where [TS]

01:00:48   immediately afterward there's a bunch of [TS]

01:00:51   people beating the drum for this means [TS]

01:00:54   that new zealand loves her flag and we [TS]

01:00:56   will never change the flag ever again [TS]

01:00:59   because the people have spoken is like [TS]

01:01:00   is that what the people have said that [TS]

01:01:02   like I'm not sure that that's the [TS]

01:01:04   conclusion that you can draw from it [TS]

01:01:06   like ultimately this is a referendum [TS]

01:01:07   that has taken place and this was the [TS]

01:01:09   result but boy do sometimes people like [TS]

01:01:12   to jump on the results like this is like [TS]

01:01:14   okay great we'll just keep this one [TS]

01:01:16   forever then shall we say oh ok well [TS]

01:01:19   that kinda goes with my feeling of I [TS]

01:01:22   would have been happy to vote for [TS]

01:01:24   something that was different because you [TS]

01:01:26   can always make it better in the future [TS]

01:01:28   but I said I think I left it in the [TS]

01:01:31   podcast last time but I was predicting [TS]

01:01:33   this result that black corner versus the [TS]

01:01:36   traditional flag with the traditional [TS]

01:01:37   flag would win and here we are with this [TS]

01:01:40   really is in my mind is is a vote for [TS]

01:01:42   new zealand accepting their always being [TS]

01:01:45   confused with Australia like New [TS]

01:01:47   Zealanders you can't complain about that [TS]

01:01:48   anymore [TS]

01:01:49   that's what you voted for so great just [TS]

01:01:51   just to clarify because i think that [TS]

01:01:55   image is accurate that you even though [TS]

01:01:57   you're not using that doesn't really [TS]

01:01:58   matter but you of the mind that they [TS]

01:02:00   should change their flag from what they [TS]

01:02:02   have now and even though you didn't like [TS]

01:02:05   the winner of the Challenger Series you [TS]

01:02:09   thought maybe choosing that would be a [TS]

01:02:10   step in the right direction so if [TS]

01:02:12   you were in New Zealanders who didn't [TS]

01:02:14   like the union jack flag would you voted [TS]

01:02:17   for crappy black corner and said well at [TS]

01:02:19   least it's different or would you have [TS]

01:02:21   voted for the existing flag if you had a [TS]

01:02:23   vote what would you have done if I had [TS]

01:02:25   to vote and if I was a Kiwi I would have [TS]

01:02:27   voted for the black corner flag [TS]

01:02:28   ok I wouldn't be happy about it right [TS]

01:02:31   just like just like many elections [TS]

01:02:33   you're not happy with your choices but I [TS]

01:02:36   would have voted for the new 1i would [TS]

01:02:38   not have voted for tradition because I [TS]

01:02:40   just I feel like it's at least it's a [TS]

01:02:42   step in the right direction at least [TS]

01:02:44   it's more recognizable it's not confused [TS]

01:02:47   with a nearby neighboring country it [TS]

01:02:50   just it's better it's not great or [TS]

01:02:52   anything but I think it's better [TS]

01:02:54   mm you don't agree you would have voted [TS]

01:02:56   for tradition of course you would have [TS]

01:02:57   voted for tonight I would've added for [TS]

01:02:59   tradition of course why do i even i [TS]

01:03:00   don't even wonder for two seconds food [TS]

01:03:02   for tradition I would have voted for an [TS]

01:03:05   old black flag with a foot just a single [TS]

01:03:07   further on its own honor I would have [TS]

01:03:08   voted for that over the the current flag [TS]

01:03:11   of course because that's awesome no one [TS]

01:03:13   would have not voted for that [TS]

01:03:14   exactly that's the sort of that would [TS]

01:03:17   have gotten ninety-seven percent [TS]

01:03:18   approval and yet it didn't it didn't [TS]

01:03:22   make the final lot [TS]

01:03:23   what are you doing New Zealand come on [TS]

01:03:25   man they didn't go with the obvious flag [TS]

01:03:28   essentially once again because of [TS]

01:03:31   intellectual property rights right like [TS]

01:03:33   this came down to this disagreement [TS]

01:03:34   between the Australian all blacks and [TS]

01:03:39   the government and the All Blacks making [TS]

01:03:40   the argument that this is like a [TS]

01:03:41   trademark and its copyright law but I [TS]

01:03:43   feel like this is one of the few times i [TS]

01:03:46   would be totally on the government side [TS]

01:03:47   if they were just like no I'm sorry [TS]

01:03:49   where the government who enforces the [TS]

01:03:51   intellectual property and we're just not [TS]

01:03:54   gonna like we're just going to take your [TS]

01:03:55   design you know I stuff like all black [TS]

01:03:57   no thanks ready to have a pretty big and [TS]

01:04:00   tough guys open back [TS]

01:04:01   yeah thanks for being an amazing sports [TS]

01:04:04   team that promotes a worldwide but you [TS]

01:04:05   know what [TS]

01:04:06   that's our flag now buddy thank you [TS]

01:04:09   still kept out their uniforms of course [TS]

01:04:11   they can still keep it on their uniforms [TS]

01:04:12   because it would be the New Zealand flag [TS]

01:04:13   right but it's just like I know I know [TS]

01:04:18   if I'm sitting down if I was a lawyer [TS]

01:04:20   somewhere be like no we can't really do [TS]

01:04:22   this but my gut feeling is like oh come [TS]

01:04:25   on come on [TS]

01:04:26   sometimes sometimes you gotta break a [TS]

01:04:28   few eggs right to get the thing and was [TS]

01:04:30   like this is what we all want it but so [TS]

01:04:32   here we are and i bet you anything [TS]

01:04:34   there will not be another referendum 400 [TS]

01:04:38   years like that that's almost certainly [TS]

01:04:40   was gonna happen [TS]

01:04:41   it feels like what New Zealanders have [TS]

01:04:42   done is the equivalent of when you [TS]

01:04:44   really feel like steak all day and you [TS]

01:04:46   go to the restaurant thinking I can't [TS]

01:04:48   wait to have steak and then at the last [TS]

01:04:50   minute they give you the menu you see [TS]

01:04:51   all these options that you get bamboos [TS]

01:04:53   order then the waiting arms is what do [TS]

01:04:55   you want you get all this looks [TS]

01:04:56   interesting are I've never heard of this [TS]

01:04:58   before I have this weird pizza and then [TS]

01:05:01   and then they bring the webpage you [TS]

01:05:03   think ah yeah i knew i wanted steak why [TS]

01:05:06   did not just order the steak [TS]

01:05:08   yeah the will of the people in New [TS]

01:05:10   Zealand has spoken boys in a real shame [TS]

01:05:11   it's a real shame shall I predict this [TS]

01:05:14   is the most disappointing election in [TS]

01:05:16   2016 I think so you've got CC here I [TS]

01:05:22   know what you want to talk about [TS]

01:05:23   well its corporate compensation corner [TS]

01:05:26   of course it is of course it is but this [TS]

01:05:29   is a special edition that this is a ye [TS]

01:05:33   olde e corporate compensation corner I i [TS]

01:05:37   live in a house that is quite old but it [TS]

01:05:40   was it was built in the 1860s yeah well [TS]

01:05:44   nothing i mean there's there's was old [TS]

01:05:47   old he's out real pain in the butt to [TS]

01:05:50   meeting beautiful things require extra [TS]

01:05:53   effort in my opinion sometimes you know [TS]

01:05:56   sometimes anyway that we're not we're [TS]

01:05:58   not here to talk about the beauty or [TS]

01:06:00   otherwise of my house [TS]

01:06:01   I mean you have your house is very [TS]

01:06:02   lovely looking well what I do want to [TS]

01:06:05   talk about though is the fact that once [TS]

01:06:08   every six months this strange envelope [TS]

01:06:11   comes through the door and I opened it [TS]

01:06:13   up and I take out a piece of a4 paper [TS]

01:06:16   that looks like it was printed in the [TS]

01:06:17   nineteen eighties with some dot matrix [TS]

01:06:20   printer that's almost out of ink and [TS]

01:06:23   it's this weird rather unprofessional [TS]

01:06:26   looking letter then comes from this [TS]

01:06:29   company based in staffordshire here in [TS]

01:06:32   England demanding of me the sum of two [TS]

01:06:38   british pounds sterling for sheet what [TS]

01:06:43   they call chief rent and I'm required to [TS]

01:06:47   send off a check for two pounds so [TS]

01:06:50   that's what's that about three bucks is [TS]

01:06:52   oh maybe more than three dollars for our [TS]

01:06:55   American friends so a small amount of [TS]

01:06:57   money I cold lower my you know real [TS]

01:07:00   estate lawyer person once asked what's [TS]

01:07:01   going on don't have to pay this and they [TS]

01:07:02   explained that i do we got another one [TS]

01:07:04   just this way so we've done a little bit [TS]

01:07:06   of investigating and we got this [TS]

01:07:09   so what is this we've got this upper I [TS]

01:07:11   now have in my hand this this ancient [TS]

01:07:14   document or copy of it this in the [TS]

01:07:17   picture from 1863 and basically what [TS]

01:07:21   happened was when the land that the [TS]

01:07:23   house was on was was sold and they they [TS]

01:07:27   built a few houses here on the land [TS]

01:07:29   where I live there was this like 10-20 [TS]

01:07:32   page contract about what could be done [TS]

01:07:35   with the land and there was also a [TS]

01:07:37   requirement that the person who sold the [TS]

01:07:39   land would be paid four pounds every [TS]

01:07:42   year and that just hasn't changed since [TS]

01:07:44   1863 that there's a requirement that [TS]

01:07:47   this person is supposed to be paid four [TS]

01:07:49   pounds which four pounds he was probably [TS]

01:07:51   a lot of money back then but now it's [TS]

01:07:54   nothing but it still has to be paid and [TS]

01:07:56   obviously some other company which [TS]

01:07:57   buyers up all these chief rent deals has [TS]

01:08:00   bought this one and just sends off all [TS]

01:08:02   these automated invoices all the time [TS]

01:08:04   and I've got to pay this two quid which [TS]

01:08:08   is a huge pain in the butt [TS]

01:08:09   I'd left i want to just one day I want [TS]

01:08:11   to send them like coins in the mail to [TS]

01:08:14   pay for that is so English so we did [TS]

01:08:17   some investigating today and you can [TS]

01:08:19   actually buy your way out of it [TS]

01:08:21   whoo to get completely out of it and [TS]

01:08:23   never have to pay it again we have to [TS]

01:08:25   pay something like about 500 pounds [TS]

01:08:27   which is over a hundred years so you [TS]

01:08:32   know it's basically you're buying out of [TS]

01:08:34   the inconvenience I guess part of me [TS]

01:08:36   resents paying this company which I have [TS]

01:08:39   this sort of little dislike for all this [TS]

01:08:43   money so that works out to be you [TS]

01:08:44   basically buying 20 years worth of [TS]

01:08:47   payments if you pay 500 pounds if I [TS]

01:08:50   don't matter [TS]

01:08:51   there no no it's like oh it's like over [TS]

01:08:54   a hundred years [TS]

01:08:55   yeah because it's only four quid a year [TS]

01:08:57   oh it's it's a year okay sorry i was [TS]

01:08:59   doing it I was thinking it was thinking [TS]

01:09:01   it was it was two pounds per month but [TS]

01:09:03   it's okay right okay not only your [TS]

01:09:04   parents for six months crazy [TS]

01:09:07   yeah yeah i would totally pay their [TS]

01:09:11   mafia blood money here never have to [TS]

01:09:15   think about it again [TS]

01:09:17   really you have to pay us 400 years [TS]

01:09:19   worth the fine fine i would find having [TS]

01:09:23   to send off the two pounds and [TS]

01:09:25   infuriating in every six months and [TS]

01:09:27   because i know i would totally forget [TS]

01:09:29   about it between every six months and I [TS]

01:09:31   wouldn't discover it and be annoyed but [TS]

01:09:33   are you gonna pay the money you're gonna [TS]

01:09:35   get rid of this what you just gonna just [TS]

01:09:37   gonna send off two pounds everybody what [TS]

01:09:41   happens if you don't pay this but it [TS]

01:09:43   would if you tell them just the hell of [TS]

01:09:44   it [TS]

01:09:44   I don't know the answer to that but the [TS]

01:09:46   second thing is like Shirley it cost [TS]

01:09:49   them more than two pounds worth of time [TS]

01:09:51   and trouble to you know open the [TS]

01:09:53   envelope and take the check out and do [TS]

01:09:56   the banking and like I know that [TS]

01:09:58   obviously have economies of scale here i [TS]

01:10:00   don't know i can imagine if this is a [TS]

01:10:02   really small company like if this is a [TS]

01:10:04   really clever thing that that like two [TS]

01:10:06   guys thought up like it will buy all [TS]

01:10:08   these tiny contracts that nobody wants [TS]

01:10:10   yeah I could I could see that actually [TS]

01:10:13   working out over a whole country to [TS]

01:10:15   support a very small company it if what [TS]

01:10:19   they do is they only have envelope day [TS]

01:10:23   once every six months right that they [TS]

01:10:25   just go into a plague we like we picked [TS]

01:10:28   up others because ballots for the hello [TS]

01:10:31   Internet referendum like they go into a [TS]

01:10:33   postbox somewhere that's just filled [TS]

01:10:35   with envelopes filled with coins so i [TS]

01:10:37   could see it making sense it like this [TS]

01:10:39   can't possibly be some enormous company [TS]

01:10:43   with thousands of employees sending off [TS]

01:10:45   hundreds of envelopes like that can't be [TS]

01:10:48   what it has to be pretty small-time it [TS]

01:10:49   also makes you wonder though how much [TS]

01:10:52   they police who's paying and not paying [TS]

01:10:53   well this is this is where I'm going [TS]

01:10:55   with this is i bet i Pat Brady if you [TS]

01:10:59   were willing to be a little bit naughty [TS]

01:11:00   about this [TS]

01:11:01   you could get away with not paying I'm [TS]

01:11:03   half-tempted to do it just to test the [TS]

01:11:05   system but I really resent the idea of [TS]

01:11:07   sending them a whopping 500 quid like to [TS]

01:11:10   reward them for their scam penis [TS]

01:11:12   well I don't think this is a scam though [TS]

01:11:14   now i know Anna this is just someone [TS]

01:11:17   taking advantage of a great annoyance [TS]

01:11:19   today's sponsor is audible.com who has [TS]

01:11:24   more than 180,000 audiobooks and spoken [TS]

01:11:26   word products you can get a free 30-day [TS]

01:11:30   trial today at audible.com / hello [TS]

01:11:33   Internet audible likes us to let you [TS]

01:11:36   dear listeners know what we're reading [TS]

01:11:37   and i am currently reading pattern [TS]

01:11:39   recognition by william gibson it's a [TS]

01:11:42   fictional story set in the what was at [TS]

01:11:45   the time of writing near future [TS]

01:11:48   london and as always I don't like to [TS]

01:11:49   give away spoilers but i will say the [TS]

01:11:52   thing that I am enjoying about this book [TS]

01:11:54   is the characterization of the [TS]

01:11:57   protagonist case Pollard she happens to [TS]

01:12:00   work in the fashion world and her [TS]

01:12:02   internal monologue is obsessed with the [TS]

01:12:04   factions and the clothing of what [TS]

01:12:06   everybody else wears which doesn't [TS]

01:12:08   necessarily sound like a thing that i [TS]

01:12:11   would like but i will read you just a [TS]

01:12:13   little bit from the book that catches my [TS]

01:12:15   attention and I think you'll see why she [TS]

01:12:17   rolls over groups for her clothes a [TS]

01:12:20   small boys black fruit of the loom [TS]

01:12:21   t-shirt thoroughly shrunken a thin gray [TS]

01:12:24   v-neck pullover purchased by the [TS]

01:12:26   half-dozen from a supplier to new [TS]

01:12:27   england prep schools in a new and [TS]

01:12:29   oversized pair of black 50 ones every [TS]

01:12:32   trademark carefully removed even the [TS]

01:12:35   buttons on these have been ground flat [TS]

01:12:37   featureless by a puzzled Korean [TS]

01:12:40   locksmith in the village a week ago [TS]

01:12:42   cpus case Pollard units that's what [TS]

01:12:45   Damien calls the clothing she wears CPUs [TS]

01:12:48   are either black white or gray and [TS]

01:12:50   ideally seem to have come into this [TS]

01:12:52   world without human intervention she can [TS]

01:12:55   only tolerate things that would have [TS]

01:12:56   been warned to a general lack of comment [TS]

01:12:58   during any year between 1945 and 2000 [TS]

01:13:01   she's a design Freezone a one-woman [TS]

01:13:04   school of anti who's very austerity [TS]

01:13:07   periodically threatens to spawn its own [TS]

01:13:10   cult it's a strange book i'm enjoying it [TS]

01:13:12   so far but mostly I keep having this [TS]

01:13:14   feeling [TS]

01:13:15   like case Pollard you and me we're on [TS]

01:13:17   the same page with many things so that's [TS]

01:13:20   pattern recognition by william gibson [TS]

01:13:22   which you can get at audible.com along [TS]

01:13:26   with their many many other titles so if [TS]

01:13:30   you want to listen to it audible has it [TS]

01:13:31   with more than 180,000 audiobooks and [TS]

01:13:34   spoken word products you'll find what [TS]

01:13:38   you're looking for and once again get a [TS]

01:13:40   free 30-day trial today by signing up at [TS]

01:13:43   audible.com / hello internet that gets [TS]

01:13:47   you a free trial and let's audible know [TS]

01:13:49   that you came from the podcast [TS]

01:13:51   thank you to audible for supporting the [TS]

01:13:53   show big news in the world of artificial [TS]

01:13:58   intelligence maybe not big news in the [TS]

01:14:00   real world was that just recently this [TS]

01:14:03   program called deep mind written by [TS]

01:14:07   google which was instantiated as alpha [TS]

01:14:10   go i think was what they called it but [TS]

01:14:14   this deepmind computer program beat a [TS]

01:14:18   player called Lee settle at a game [TS]

01:14:21   called go and for listeners go is this [TS]

01:14:27   essentially like the Chinese version of [TS]

01:14:30   chess or the Oriental version of chess [TS]

01:14:32   not exactly sure where it originated but [TS]

01:14:35   go has been this interesting target in [TS]

01:14:39   the world of artificial intelligence for [TS]

01:14:41   many years there's been a huge amount of [TS]

01:14:43   work on can we get a computer to play go [TS]

01:14:47   better than human being and this has [TS]

01:14:51   just happened in the past couple of [TS]

01:14:53   weeks this player Lisa doll was rated [TS]

01:14:56   one of the top five human go players in [TS]

01:14:59   the world he had a five-match game vs [TS]

01:15:03   google's deepmind and deepmind crushed [TS]

01:15:07   him for 21 in those matches this is [TS]

01:15:11   really really quite a landmark thing [TS]

01:15:13   it's a bit [TS]

01:15:14   it reminds me a bit of like when I was [TS]

01:15:16   in high school there was ibm's deep blue [TS]

01:15:18   versus Garry Kasparov and chess which [TS]

01:15:21   was a big deal at the time for a [TS]

01:15:22   supercomputer to be a human at chess and [TS]

01:15:25   now we have passed another milestone [TS]

01:15:28   which was go have you replied but go [TS]

01:15:31   Brady I've actually tried to make a [TS]

01:15:32   video about it which i haven't edited [TS]

01:15:33   yet but I know if you go experts at MSR [TS]

01:15:36   I actually know yeah and i have in the [TS]

01:15:38   course of doing that [TS]

01:15:40   learn to play go and play if you end [TS]

01:15:42   games against a few people and being [TS]

01:15:44   absolutely demolished it because it's [TS]

01:15:46   quite hard game but i am familiar with [TS]

01:15:49   go and i am familiar that it was one of [TS]

01:15:52   these kind of all computers over the [TS]

01:15:54   beat you know people that and and [TS]

01:15:57   whatnot so i'm i'm quite familiar with [TS]

01:15:59   the subject [TS]

01:16:00   yeah I think it's a really beautiful [TS]

01:16:01   game I i first came across go back when [TS]

01:16:06   I started to get interested in genetic [TS]

01:16:08   programming when i was doing this back [TS]

01:16:10   in college like I've never heard of go [TS]

01:16:12   before then but but even you know what [TS]

01:16:14   it was at 15 years ago like this was [TS]

01:16:18   always mentioned as the thing that we're [TS]

01:16:19   trying to write neural networks and [TS]

01:16:21   genetic programs to conquer and so I got [TS]

01:16:23   into go a little bit at that time like i [TS]

01:16:25   think it's a it's a very interesting [TS]

01:16:26   game for anyone who's ever played chess [TS]

01:16:30   like it's it's worth taking a look at go [TS]

01:16:32   it's it's so different but I really [TS]

01:16:35   think that you can describe it as as a [TS]

01:16:37   beautiful game i got i love the fact [TS]

01:16:39   that the players alternate building up a [TS]

01:16:43   pattern on the board so you were each [TS]

01:16:45   taking turns placing these black and [TS]

01:16:47   white stones on the board and the end of [TS]

01:16:50   the game every time almost looks like [TS]

01:16:52   this artwork because you end up with a [TS]

01:16:54   completed board that's filled with these [TS]

01:16:56   black and white stones that even if you [TS]

01:16:58   don't play the game you can see there is [TS]

01:17:00   a pattern behind their placement it [TS]

01:17:02   isn't it isn't just a random placement [TS]

01:17:05   but one of the reasons why this has been [TS]

01:17:08   such a goal in artificial intelligence [TS]

01:17:10   is because anyone who has played chess [TS]

01:17:13   you know the board is eight by eight so [TS]

01:17:16   there are 64 tiles on the board and with [TS]

01:17:21   modern computers you can kind of brute [TS]

01:17:24   force your way through playing that game [TS]

01:17:26   like you can have the computer just in [TS]

01:17:28   its own mind try out every possible [TS]

01:17:30   combination of the next series of moves [TS]

01:17:32   to pick what the best move is going to [TS]

01:17:34   be but a go board is 19 x 19 which makes [TS]

01:17:39   the total number of [TS]

01:17:41   squares that was that thread 361 i think [TS]

01:17:45   it is and with a board that is that big [TS]

01:17:48   essentially all of the tools that are [TS]

01:17:50   available for writing chess programs [TS]

01:17:52   like they are not really available to [TS]

01:17:54   you if you're trying to write a program [TS]

01:17:55   to play go and so in the world of AI [TS]

01:17:59   it's always been like you have to design [TS]

01:18:00   something that is very different to [TS]

01:18:02   conquer this sort of problem you cannot [TS]

01:18:06   conquer it in the same way that you [TS]

01:18:07   conquer chest and like I said this is [TS]

01:18:10   this has been accomplished now and I [TS]

01:18:13   think it's really interesting because i [TS]

01:18:14   was reading some of the commentary about [TS]

01:18:15   it and the at least from professional [TS]

01:18:18   players they all say that the this deep [TS]

01:18:21   mind plays the game in a way that is [TS]

01:18:25   very inhuman and is very difficult to [TS]

01:18:28   understand why it is making the move [TS]

01:18:31   that it is making whereas like a [TS]

01:18:33   supercomputer playing chess humans can [TS]

01:18:35   understand the reasoning why it is doing [TS]

01:18:38   what it is doing but that deep mind [TS]

01:18:40   plays go like no human players go like [TS]

01:18:43   very conservatively but it makes these [TS]

01:18:45   weird moves that turn out to be [TS]

01:18:47   devastating but are very difficult to [TS]

01:18:49   figure out like why is it making this [TS]

01:18:51   move at this point no professional go [TS]

01:18:54   players watch your back is the computer [TS]

01:18:56   coming for you [TS]

01:18:57   this is obviously been a big moment for [TS]

01:18:59   the artificial intelligence cheerleaders [TS]

01:19:02   and they've been you know happening on a [TS]

01:19:06   bit about it which is made me in much [TS]

01:19:08   the same way when everyone recommends a [TS]

01:19:09   game to you don't want to play the game [TS]

01:19:11   when everyone's saying how awesome [TS]

01:19:12   something is I'm a little bit like well [TS]

01:19:14   isn't that awesome [TS]

01:19:17   I i know this was sort of you know the [TS]

01:19:20   next the next milestone in artificial [TS]

01:19:24   intelligence and I'm also aware that the [TS]

01:19:27   way that this software works is [TS]

01:19:30   different to how you know deep blue wins [TS]

01:19:35   a chess you know it is this isn't this [TS]

01:19:37   machine is sort of teaching itself and [TS]

01:19:39   going off and playing games by itself [TS]

01:19:41   and learning and we're making a whole [TS]

01:19:42   bunch of computer file videos about it [TS]

01:19:44   as well so hopefully people will go on [TS]

01:19:46   what some of them and just whatever [TS]

01:19:50   computer bad like yeah but I think it's [TS]

01:19:54   important not to forget that this lee [TS]

01:19:57   said I'll wasn't beaten just by a [TS]

01:19:59   computer [TS]

01:20:00   he was beaten by a computer that was [TS]

01:20:02   made by humans [TS]

01:20:04   so like I think this is a real victory [TS]

01:20:05   for humans as well isn't it like what a [TS]

01:20:08   great what a great victory for humans [TS]

01:20:10   that are able to make a machine that can [TS]

01:20:13   do this it to be clear I i am especially [TS]

01:20:16   after reading super intelligence [TS]

01:20:17   I'm not exactly an artificial [TS]

01:20:19   intelligence cheerleader at this point I [TS]

01:20:22   just think it's so I'm not unlike OT ms [TS]

01:20:25   isn't this awesome [TS]

01:20:27   I'm more on a team like this is just a [TS]

01:20:29   huge landmark in in the state of [TS]

01:20:33   technology that this has been a thing [TS]

01:20:36   that i have been reading about and and [TS]

01:20:38   vaguely hearing about for 15 years and [TS]

01:20:40   like now it has come to pass and and [TS]

01:20:42   also sooner than a lot of people were [TS]

01:20:44   suspecting which is another another [TS]

01:20:46   interesting take on this that like most [TS]

01:20:49   of the money was that the computer was [TS]

01:20:51   going to lose that it might be close but [TS]

01:20:54   that the human would would still triumph [TS]

01:20:56   at this stage but that was that was not [TS]

01:20:58   the case i just think it's much more of [TS]

01:21:00   a landmark like it is one of these [TS]

01:21:02   generations of new kind of computer [TS]

01:21:05   programs where it is teaching itself how [TS]

01:21:10   to play much more than humans are [TS]

01:21:12   programming it how to play again and [TS]

01:21:15   this is the shape of things to come with [TS]

01:21:17   all kinds of computer programs is this [TS]

01:21:19   like well we're going to feed a huge [TS]

01:21:21   amount of data and we built a neural [TS]

01:21:23   network on the inside and we don't know [TS]

01:21:25   exactly how it is that it learns but we [TS]

01:21:27   just know that if we do keep feeding it [TS]

01:21:29   stuff like it will learn and and this is [TS]

01:21:32   this is one of these examples like it is [TS]

01:21:35   a thing that has taught itself how to [TS]

01:21:36   play go better than humans can play go [TS]

01:21:39   and it's just it's just another big [TS]

01:21:42   milestone along this path and the thing [TS]

01:21:47   that's interesting is is I keep calling [TS]

01:21:48   it deep mine instead of alpha go because [TS]

01:21:50   just like the Watson program that IBM is [TS]

01:21:56   working on that they had that win [TS]

01:21:58   jeopardy a few years ago is like yeah [TS]

01:22:00   but that's not really the main purpose [TS]

01:22:03   of what [TS]

01:22:03   said like that that was an instantiation [TS]

01:22:05   of Watson designed to try to win at [TS]

01:22:07   jeopardy and deep mine seems to be a [TS]

01:22:10   general-purpose artificial intelligence [TS]

01:22:12   program that google is working on that [TS]

01:22:15   alfa GO is an instantiation of like why [TS]

01:22:18   don't we use this general-purpose thing [TS]

01:22:19   to try to solve go but they are doing [TS]

01:22:22   who-knows-what with with the actual [TS]

01:22:25   research that's going into this it's [TS]

01:22:26   like a general much more like a [TS]

01:22:28   general-purpose problem-solving thing [TS]

01:22:30   that google is going to use for [TS]

01:22:31   who-knows-what self-driving cars taking [TS]

01:22:34   over the world [TS]

01:22:35   whatever that whatever they're going to [TS]

01:22:37   do with that it's it's interesting it is [TS]

01:22:39   interesting i get like i said i get a [TS]

01:22:41   bit because if one's because all the [TS]

01:22:42   people cheerleading and say this is a [TS]

01:22:44   big milestone part of me thinks well [TS]

01:22:46   it's a bit of an arbitrary milestone [TS]

01:22:48   this one game we chosen you know [TS]

01:22:49   eventually cars could go faster than 200 [TS]

01:22:53   miles an hour and then they can go [TS]

01:22:54   faster than 300 miles an hour [TS]

01:22:56   so where do we where do we draw these [TS]

01:22:57   milestones I understand this uses a [TS]

01:22:59   different technology to yeah yeah some [TS]

01:23:01   of the other ones Benny right but all of [TS]

01:23:03   that aside it has got a lot of publicity [TS]

01:23:05   so it has got me thinking and I'm [TS]

01:23:08   actually been thinking about it quite a [TS]

01:23:09   lot the last couple of weeks and [TS]

01:23:10   discussing it a lot you know with my [TS]

01:23:13   wife about it does you know because it's [TS]

01:23:15   raising lots of questions about what it [TS]

01:23:17   means to be human doesn't know you know [TS]

01:23:18   if this thing could teach itself and we [TS]

01:23:21   don't even know how its winning you know [TS]

01:23:23   where these lives so we've been having a [TS]

01:23:26   lot of discussions lately about what it [TS]

01:23:27   means to be human and to learn it's been [TS]

01:23:30   it which has been interesting in itself [TS]

01:23:32   we must discuss it sometime because the [TS]

01:23:34   interesting thing is almost for the sake [TS]

01:23:37   of argument I've been sort of the gray [TS]

01:23:38   of the discussion all the time and I've [TS]

01:23:40   been taking the position that humans are [TS]

01:23:41   nothing special in their computers and [TS]

01:23:43   I've been throwing down the challenge to [TS]

01:23:45   say tell me otherwise [TS]

01:23:47   hmm and it makes me realize how easy it [TS]

01:23:49   is to have that position of the person [TS]

01:23:51   that says computers and humans are just [TS]

01:23:53   the same and you may say that's because [TS]

01:23:55   they are the same [TS]

01:23:56   that's why its own again that the about [TS]

01:23:57   exactly what movie yeah but i don't i [TS]

01:24:00   don't think that are the same but it [TS]

01:24:01   does make me realize what an easy [TS]

01:24:02   argument it is to make because whenever [TS]

01:24:05   someone says you just have to say what [TS]

01:24:07   would just teach computers do that to [TS]

01:24:09   write or just you know but we have to [TS]

01:24:11   program a computer to do that to someone [TS]

01:24:14   saw you could human only humans could do [TS]

01:24:16   this then you are you [TS]

01:24:17   got to say is I would just teach [TS]

01:24:18   computers to do that so it does it does [TS]

01:24:22   raise interesting questions about what [TS]

01:24:26   it means to be human and friendly enough [TS]

01:24:29   it's in the same sort of month that you [TS]

01:24:31   put out that whole thing about [TS]

01:24:32   consciousness which is the fact that [TS]

01:24:33   creates the what it means to be human [TS]

01:24:36   yeah well that's why was I was going to [TS]

01:24:37   circle right back to that right look at [TS]

01:24:39   that we're coming full circle on this [TS]

01:24:40   episode of the podcast which is I for [TS]

01:24:42   the moment [TS]

01:24:43   well I can put a tiny asteroids gone [TS]

01:24:45   this but i don't think that deep mind is [TS]

01:24:48   conscious right i'm almost certainly it [TS]

01:24:50   is not conscious in in any way like [TS]

01:24:52   that's something that we can point to as [TS]

01:24:54   a difference between humans and and [TS]

01:24:56   machines but yeah I don't mean like [TS]

01:25:00   aside from aside from consciousness the [TS]

01:25:03   Brady I know you were you were being the [TS]

01:25:04   great in the conversation because you [TS]

01:25:06   always like to be the contrary and what [TS]

01:25:07   what what yeah what do you think are the [TS]

01:25:10   uniquely human skills well this lead [TS]

01:25:13   Seto who lost has take has taken a great [TS]

01:25:16   blow to his ego and people who are [TS]

01:25:19   watching some people are really [TS]

01:25:21   surprised by what happened [TS]

01:25:23   I wonder whether or not a computer could [TS]

01:25:25   ever be surprised that one or it could [TS]

01:25:28   be disappointed that lost [TS]

01:25:31   I mean you are you asking if computers [TS]

01:25:34   can have emotions is that what you mean [TS]

01:25:36   well i guess in a roundabout way yeah [TS]

01:25:38   well I mean that's actually that's [TS]

01:25:41   actually quite interesting because I [TS]

01:25:44   mean I think in some ways emotions are [TS]

01:25:46   our brains way of making us do stuff [TS]

01:25:50   yeah and I don't know if out outside of [TS]

01:25:53   the environment in which biological life [TS]

01:25:55   develops if you could have a machine [TS]

01:25:56   that experiences emotion in the same way [TS]

01:25:59   but you could certainly have a machine [TS]

01:26:02   that's trying to optimize some kind of [TS]

01:26:04   reward center like this is one of the [TS]

01:26:06   whole the whole worries about a is like [TS]

01:26:09   how do you motivate the thing right and [TS]

01:26:11   then and then do you do the motivations [TS]

01:26:13   go terribly wrong while I don't know if [TS]

01:26:15   a machine could experience emotion in [TS]

01:26:18   precisely the same way that a biological [TS]

01:26:21   system experiences emotion it could [TS]

01:26:23   certainly have motivators and and you [TS]

01:26:27   know i am i am on the side of III [TS]

01:26:30   do think that it is possible for [TS]

01:26:32   machines to be conscious and so they [TS]

01:26:34   could definitely have motivators of some [TS]

01:26:36   kind or another I don't know but like to [TS]

01:26:40   me what the whole like what makes humans [TS]

01:26:43   different thing always seems like a [TS]

01:26:44   weird pointless argument anyway it's a [TS]

01:26:48   bit like when people are are trying to [TS]

01:26:50   draw some line between humans and [TS]

01:26:53   animals as well you know where animals [TS]

01:26:56   with very particular traits the [TS]

01:26:58   combination of which make us unique in [TS]

01:27:01   some way but like ultimately we're just [TS]

01:27:03   we you know we are very clever monkeys [TS]

01:27:06   like that you know going about our [TS]

01:27:08   monkey lives you know it's amazing [TS]

01:27:09   everything works as well as it does [TS]

01:27:10   because it's all run by a bunch of [TS]

01:27:12   monkeys but I don't know it's like [TS]

01:27:15   people want to draw a sharper lines then [TS]

01:27:17   I think exists in the world and so I [TS]

01:27:20   sometimes feel like the whole is there [TS]

01:27:23   is there a difference between humans and [TS]

01:27:25   animals or is the difference between [TS]

01:27:27   humans and machines argument like I I [TS]

01:27:29   almost feel like I don't understand why [TS]

01:27:30   we're even having this conversation like [TS]

01:27:32   that we were these are all just points [TS]

01:27:34   on a spectrum of things that can exist [TS]

01:27:36   in the universe [TS]

01:27:37   I mean how can you say i can't I don't [TS]

01:27:39   know why we're having this conversation [TS]

01:27:39   when you've made a whole video about [TS]

01:27:41   whether or not we die when we go to [TS]

01:27:42   sleep we were having this conversation [TS]

01:27:44   because it's just interesting to us and [TS]

01:27:46   like and sits at the core of who we are [TS]

01:27:48   like that it's it's it's the thing that [TS]

01:27:50   interests us more than almost anything [TS]

01:27:51   and the thing about is there a [TS]

01:27:54   difference between humans and machines [TS]

01:27:55   means I just feel like there is like I [TS]

01:27:58   instinctively feel that I wonder why i [TS]

01:28:01   have that that instincts that gut [TS]

01:28:03   feeling and i've been i'm wrong about [TS]

01:28:05   things every day and I'm sure you think [TS]

01:28:07   I'm wrong about this but I just feel [TS]

01:28:09   like there's a difference and that i can [TS]

01:28:12   make the argument that there is no [TS]

01:28:13   difference and I can make that argument [TS]

01:28:15   pretty strongly and i have been for the [TS]

01:28:16   last couple of weeks just for their for [TS]

01:28:18   the sake of arguments but I just feel [TS]

01:28:21   like there is a difference it's like [TS]

01:28:23   it's in my it's in some part of me that [TS]

01:28:26   I don't understand that i think that i [TS]

01:28:28   am and always will be different from [TS]

01:28:30   like a like a machine or artificial [TS]

01:28:32   intelligence and I don't know where that [TS]

01:28:34   comes from [TS]

01:28:35   maybe it maybe it's you know maybe its [TS]

01:28:38   evolutionary built into me so that I'll [TS]

01:28:41   try to keep myself alive [TS]

01:28:42   maybe if I stopped believing that I [TS]

01:28:44   just jump off a cliff because I wouldn't [TS]

01:28:45   care but yeah the the human thought they [TS]

01:28:49   were in different from rocks didn't live [TS]

01:28:50   long [TS]

01:28:51   yeah I get that you know I get that but [TS]

01:28:53   but I don't know it just feels right and [TS]

01:28:56   some sort some things just feel really [TS]

01:28:58   write that to me it feels right to you [TS]

01:29:01   it feels room just to be clear I'm not [TS]

01:29:03   necessarily saying that it feels wrong [TS]

01:29:05   like I am I am very open to the [TS]

01:29:06   possibility that in the universe in [TS]

01:29:09   which we live there is something unique [TS]

01:29:10   about biology that consciousness is the [TS]

01:29:14   thing that can only arise in in [TS]

01:29:16   biological systems [TS]

01:29:17   I'm open to that as a possibility like [TS]

01:29:19   if i had to put money on the table I [TS]

01:29:21   wouldn't bet on that but I don't think [TS]

01:29:23   that's like some crazy position to hold [TS]

01:29:25   that like me maybe consciousness is a [TS]

01:29:28   byproduct of biology just because like [TS]

01:29:31   in the same way that the weight of a [TS]

01:29:34   proton is whatever it is just because [TS]

01:29:37   like there's no answer to that was just [TS]

01:29:39   a just a property of the universe but i [TS]

01:29:42   liked what i said when i said before [TS]

01:29:44   like I put a tiny asterisk on deep mind [TS]

01:29:48   not being conscious that the only other [TS]

01:29:50   thing that I wonder about is like is [TS]

01:29:52   consciousness a byproduct of information [TS]

01:29:55   processing like it like is this where [TS]

01:29:58   consciousness comes from that there's [TS]

01:29:59   something there's something about the [TS]

01:30:01   structure of the universe that when a [TS]

01:30:02   system is processing information that it [TS]

01:30:05   becomes conscious and then like are all [TS]

01:30:07   of our machines experiencing tremendous [TS]

01:30:10   torment as they are conscious like our [TS]

01:30:13   imac sitting in front of us like [TS]

01:30:14   experiences some dim amount of [TS]

01:30:15   consciousness because it is a [TS]

01:30:17   information processing machine like I [TS]

01:30:19   think that's probably going into crazy [TS]

01:30:20   land like I don't actually really think [TS]

01:30:22   that but I just I just wonder like what [TS]

01:30:25   consciousness is the thing that is [TS]

01:30:28   different like it when you say that you [TS]

01:30:29   just feel that it's different like I [TS]

01:30:31   think that's what you're kind of getting [TS]

01:30:33   at like I'm here I know that I'm here [TS]

01:30:35   I'm like an agent in the world making [TS]

01:30:37   decisions and doing stuff like this dumb [TS]

01:30:40   machine is just playing go because I [TS]

01:30:42   told it to play go and you're different [TS]

01:30:46   because you are conscious and aware of [TS]

01:30:47   the world and and the machine is not but [TS]

01:30:50   then it just kind of gets to like where [TS]

01:30:51   does this consciousness come from I [TS]

01:30:52   don't know [TS]

01:30:53   yeah I could be quite snobby you know if [TS]

01:30:56   aliens landed a spaceship and [TS]

01:30:58   slimy thing walked out it would be very [TS]

01:31:01   arrogant of me to think well that can't [TS]

01:31:02   be conscious but it made it look at me [TS]

01:31:05   looking at my computer and thank you [TS]

01:31:07   idiot you think that thing that is not [TS]

01:31:08   conscious right yeah but like we are [TS]

01:31:12   here to get to relieve the suffering of [TS]

01:31:14   all of the machines that you have [TS]

01:31:15   enslaved because you're an idiot that [TS]

01:31:17   doesn't know that anything processing [TS]

01:31:19   information is conscious i think all of [TS]

01:31:21   our iphones are silently screaming yeah [TS]

01:31:24   I mean that would be quite that would be [TS]

01:31:25   quite a revelation for us humans to [TS]

01:31:27   realize what we've done but it doesn't [TS]

01:31:29   seem right to me but who knows [TS]

01:31:32   yeah it doesn't seem right to me either [TS]

01:31:33   i just i just wonder like if you're [TS]

01:31:35   trying to think about where does this [TS]

01:31:37   specialness come from and if you take [TS]

01:31:38   consciousness as the specialness it [TS]

01:31:40   feels like okay well it's either [TS]

01:31:42   something to do with biology or it's [TS]

01:31:44   something to do with like the way [TS]

01:31:45   information is processed like I'm not [TS]

01:31:48   quite sure what else it could be [TS]

01:31:51   and I mean I certainly think that we [TS]

01:31:53   have biological systems that are not [TS]

01:31:55   conscious so I leaned more towards on [TS]

01:31:58   the like something about information [TS]

01:32:00   processing side but then once again we'd [TS]

01:32:02   like some bizarre gray area spectrum of [TS]

01:32:05   we know how much is enough [TS]

01:32:07   well i guess one of the things that [TS]

01:32:08   things that a conscious maybe seem to do [TS]

01:32:12   a lot is try to express that [TS]

01:32:13   consciousness but we kind of enough that [TS]

01:32:18   I've never seen any evidence of a [TS]

01:32:20   computer trying to express anything [TS]

01:32:23   beyond what it does like you didn't see [TS]

01:32:26   alpha go at the end sort of seek [TS]

01:32:29   approval or congratulations from its [TS]

01:32:31   master cited pretty well then didn't I [TS]

01:32:33   or say i'd like to learn a new game or [TS]

01:32:37   who say you know I'm really proud of [TS]

01:32:39   what I did or that was easy or like it [TS]

01:32:42   it's making no effort to that we know of [TS]

01:32:45   to do anything beyond just what it does [TS]

01:32:47   right whereas you whereas humans and [TS]

01:32:50   even you know dogs and all these other [TS]

01:32:52   things things that we think have some [TS]

01:32:54   level of consciousness do seem to try to [TS]

01:32:58   express themselves in these other ways [TS]

01:33:02   that are that are beyond that seemed [TS]

01:33:04   beyond that [TS]

01:33:05   yeah like a stupid no I don't know [TS]

01:33:07   that's nice too but it all right because [TS]

01:33:08   I mean you can train your dog [TS]

01:33:11   but your dog clearly also has its own [TS]

01:33:13   thoughts about things [TS]

01:33:14   it's not an atomic on that plays dead [TS]

01:33:17   and rolls over whenever you tell it to [TS]

01:33:19   ya it it has it has its own interest in [TS]

01:33:22   the world right it wants to look out the [TS]

01:33:24   window right it wants to play with the [TS]

01:33:26   other dogs like it clearly has its own [TS]

01:33:28   intense [TS]

01:33:30   yeah and i agree with you that is a [TS]

01:33:32   thing that I don't think that we have [TS]

01:33:34   seen in the artificial intelligence [TS]

01:33:37   world yet is a machine expressing its [TS]

01:33:40   own intent and it may very well be that [TS]

01:33:44   that is a thing that we never see you [TS]

01:33:48   again i am open to that possibility that [TS]

01:33:50   this is just maybe we live in a universe [TS]

01:33:52   where the only kinds of machines that we [TS]

01:33:54   can build our the machines that just are [TS]

01:33:58   extensions of ourselves in a way like [TS]

01:34:00   they are to their wind up clockwork [TS]

01:34:02   machines that we set in motion and they [TS]

01:34:04   do with a what they do and nothing more [TS]

01:34:07   like maybe that maybe that's the way the [TS]

01:34:10   universe works maybe it isn't i don't [TS]

01:34:11   know but I more I more have the feeling [TS]

01:34:13   that like we are actually at just basic [TS]

01:34:17   basic baby level of AI that even the [TS]

01:34:21   things that we're thinking of now it's [TS]

01:34:22   like boy this is an amazing [TS]

01:34:23   accomplishment that we've written [TS]

01:34:24   something that can be the human and go [TS]

01:34:26   that on the scale of artificial [TS]

01:34:29   intelligence development this is still [TS]

01:34:31   like you but you're you're barely more [TS]

01:34:33   than a virus like that that's all that [TS]

01:34:35   you've made here and there's so much [TS]

01:34:38   more that is above and beyond this that [TS]

01:34:42   like yeah of course of course you're not [TS]

01:34:44   seeing this virus expressing intense [TS]

01:34:46   like you're expecting it to act like a [TS]

01:34:48   dog but you really just built a strand [TS]

01:34:50   of RNA that that's all you've done so [TS]

01:34:52   far so maybe maybe in some ways like [TS]

01:34:55   these these kind of things that you hear [TS]

01:34:57   about in in the news they give us more [TS]

01:35:01   of an expectation that is reasonable to [TS]

01:35:03   have like maybe that's actually just the [TS]

01:35:05   place that we are right now like it's [TS]

01:35:07   crazy to expect any kind of intent from [TS]

01:35:09   machines that we build you know maybe [TS]

01:35:12   that's just not something that's [TS]

01:35:13   possible man be pretty freaky if [TS]

01:35:15   computer did express intent one day I [TS]

01:35:17   would not [TS]

01:35:18   well you know it's only a matter of time [TS]

01:35:21   though I'd like [TS]

01:35:23   you just said you're open to it not [TS]

01:35:25   being the case there was any better I [TS]

01:35:28   think these things are not exclusive [TS]

01:35:31   I'm open I'm always open to being wrong [TS]

01:35:33   whether or not a computer expresses its [TS]

01:35:37   own intent i think it is certain that at [TS]

01:35:39   some point we are going to be faced with [TS]

01:35:41   it with a system that was designed that [TS]

01:35:44   is convincingly expressing intend to [TS]

01:35:47   other humans and then I think we're in a [TS]

01:35:49   real moral problem when you have [TS]

01:35:51   something that passes like a touring [TS]

01:35:53   test of convincing other humans that it [TS]

01:35:57   has thoughts and feelings and [TS]

01:35:59   expressions like even if you know you [TS]

01:36:01   built it to be some clockwork machine i [TS]

01:36:04   think that's going to be a really weird [TS]

01:36:05   moment for humans and as I ok but like [TS]

01:36:08   there's no amount of of trying to point [TS]

01:36:10   to all the gears and saying like oh we [TS]

01:36:12   know on the inside is just clockwork [TS]

01:36:14   machinery and it's not a real thing [TS]

01:36:15   that's like yeah but you built a robot [TS]

01:36:17   that looks convincingly like a person [TS]

01:36:19   which is telling me that it's sad [TS]

01:36:20   because it's kept in a cage like I feel [TS]

01:36:22   bad for it [TS]

01:36:23   can we let it out it's like uh no maybe [TS]

01:36:26   not i don't know i think we're going to [TS]

01:36:28   be in just some weird weird situations [TS]

01:36:30   as these things get better and better [TS]

01:36:31   and and more and more convincing tell [TS]

01:36:33   you what great robots taking a job [TS]

01:36:36   corner is a pretty intense [TS]

01:36:38   yeah I didn't mean for it to actually be [TS]

01:36:39   this intense feelings actually actually [TS]

01:36:40   did want to talk about robots taking [TS]

01:36:42   your job but instead we've started out [TS]

01:36:44   by talking about the very nature of [TS]

01:36:46   consciousness and what it means to be [TS]

01:36:47   human [TS]