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H.I. #57: Podcasters React


00:00:00   you know our I'm really stressed I've [TS]

00:00:03   been working really hard I don't know if [TS]

00:00:05   I'm coming or going the last few weeks [TS]

00:00:06   opinion sign but you've cheered me up [TS]

00:00:08   with a fun chat before the show and [TS]

00:00:10   you've put me in a good mood and I don't [TS]

00:00:12   think I'm at my best when I'm in a good [TS]

00:00:13   mode [TS]

00:00:14   I won't tell your story you want to tell [TS]

00:00:17   me a story about I went on a little [TS]

00:00:19   holiday to my favorite place in the [TS]

00:00:21   world [TS]

00:00:21   this is the mole Dave's that sounds very [TS]

00:00:24   lovely have you been to the motives [TS]

00:00:26   uh-huh the very fact that i am currently [TS]

00:00:29   just realizing i need to pull up a map [TS]

00:00:31   where i was going to quietly type [TS]

00:00:33   maldives into it on your steam-powered [TS]

00:00:36   keyboard there's no quiet typing with [TS]

00:00:38   you I was I was mentally thinking it was [TS]

00:00:40   somewhere in in the Indian Ocean kind of [TS]

00:00:43   it is sort of western shore Lanker list [TS]

00:00:46   of india a bit just a little emerald [TS]

00:00:49   sprinkled in the ocean and directly [TS]

00:00:51   north of the british indian ocean [TS]

00:00:53   territory went to I went to a lovely [TS]

00:00:56   lovely Island there and had a week of [TS]

00:00:58   niceness a week of blue ocean if the [TS]

00:01:03   photographs are anything to go by every [TS]

00:01:05   time you send me a photo there was just [TS]

00:01:07   just perfect perfect crystal light blue [TS]

00:01:11   water all around you [TS]

00:01:12   hashtag no filter that is what it looks [TS]

00:01:15   like that is what it looks like [TS]

00:01:17   what did you do now we have to conclude [TS]

00:01:18   hashtag no filter look at i think i [TS]

00:01:21   actually just went on Instagram [TS]

00:01:22   yesterday like I've just started a new [TS]

00:01:24   instagram account yesterday I think I [TS]

00:01:26   want to get it i want to get into [TS]

00:01:27   Instagram are you two huh I like I just [TS]

00:01:30   think it's a nice a platform [TS]

00:01:31   I've been enjoying doing our Audrey's [TS]

00:01:33   instagram and i thought i'm going to go [TS]

00:01:34   on there so i started one up and show me [TS]

00:01:37   the love people you can follow bringing [TS]

00:01:39   on Instagram and do Audrey on Instagram [TS]

00:01:42   to is that what I just got bored orders [TS]

00:01:44   on Instagram and now and now i am 25 if [TS]

00:01:47   you're going to follow 1follower Audrey [TS]

00:01:49   uh-huh [TS]

00:01:50   workers are there better so anyway one [TS]

00:01:54   of the really common things you find at [TS]

00:01:57   these more deviant islands of these [TS]

00:01:58   water villas that's that's a lot of [TS]

00:02:00   people staying there like the nice thing [TS]

00:02:02   to stay in and for people who are [TS]

00:02:04   unfamiliar with this concept because [TS]

00:02:06   these islands are so tiny [TS]

00:02:07   normally when you stay on one they build [TS]

00:02:10   like a little jetty out to say I just [TS]

00:02:13   want to understand [TS]

00:02:13   where you staying on a private island is [TS]

00:02:15   now is that what the description here [TS]

00:02:17   that all already the radios i would like [TS]

00:02:19   an untouched emerald and they go and [TS]

00:02:21   they build you your own peer that you [TS]

00:02:23   will then land upon it that was a no but [TS]

00:02:25   but it's a big but the way the Modi's [TS]

00:02:26   works is because all these tiny little [TS]

00:02:28   islands all around these assholes are so [TS]

00:02:30   small it's not like you go to an island [TS]

00:02:32   and there's like five hotels there and [TS]

00:02:35   you choose the hotel you want basically [TS]

00:02:37   you choose an island and there's just [TS]

00:02:39   one place on that island and it will [TS]

00:02:41   have a couple of restaurants and a gym [TS]

00:02:44   and you know a spire but like usually [TS]

00:02:48   the islands of the size of maybe two or [TS]

00:02:51   three football fields so what they do is [TS]

00:02:53   they build these jetties these peers out [TS]

00:02:55   to sea and then off these pic jetties [TS]

00:02:59   comes a series of little mini jetties [TS]

00:03:02   each one of the little villa sitting [TS]

00:03:04   above the sea basically on on stilts on [TS]

00:03:07   I don't go okay and i were talking about [TS]

00:03:09   and they're talking about so its eastern [TS]

00:03:12   border village so you're above the sea [TS]

00:03:13   at night and this particular one we had [TS]

00:03:16   had a like a partly glass floor so you [TS]

00:03:19   can look down at the scene look at the [TS]

00:03:21   fish and you've got your own little [TS]

00:03:23   platform for and/or out the back with a [TS]

00:03:26   little ladder that goes down into the [TS]

00:03:28   sea so you can go and swim with the fish [TS]

00:03:30   and it's all its it's so lovely so calm [TS]

00:03:32   so I've set the same we're staying in [TS]

00:03:34   this water villa and there's a series of [TS]

00:03:36   water villas that come of this jetty and [TS]

00:03:39   I went to the island i went i think i [TS]

00:03:41   went to the gym so to do it to do a [TS]

00:03:44   fitted on 5,000 meters on the treadmill [TS]

00:03:46   counts double when you're on holiday [TS]

00:03:48   exactly so my wife stayed in the villa [TS]

00:03:51   and she went out onto the deck at the [TS]

00:03:53   back of the villa to go and look at the [TS]

00:03:55   sea and I think she put her beats [TS]

00:03:56   headphones on and was listening to music [TS]

00:03:58   I came back and mikey had stopped [TS]

00:04:01   working [TS]

00:04:02   who was banging on the door and the [TS]

00:04:04   doorbell and she couldn't hear me [TS]

00:04:05   because she had the music on so i looked [TS]

00:04:08   at the Villa next door and the guy who [TS]

00:04:10   was like cleaning the villas who I knew [TS]

00:04:13   because I'd spoken to him on previous [TS]

00:04:14   days and ask him about things and you [TS]

00:04:16   know ask him about the motives we become [TS]

00:04:18   friendly of course with him and I said [TS]

00:04:20   I've got a problem I've locked myself [TS]

00:04:21   out [TS]

00:04:22   so he said I'll let you in and he was [TS]

00:04:24   getting his life master keyer was gonna [TS]

00:04:26   walk around that me and I said no no [TS]

00:04:28   I've got a better idea let me through [TS]

00:04:30   this villa so he let me walk through the [TS]

00:04:31   village he was cleaning to their back [TS]

00:04:33   over there back verandah area and then I [TS]

00:04:36   went down there ladder into the sea and [TS]

00:04:38   I swim across to our villa the next [TS]

00:04:41   Miller so i could then emerged from the [TS]

00:04:44   sea and just come up the ladder and just [TS]

00:04:46   appear before my wife like out of the [TS]

00:04:48   water like James Bond not the only thing [TS]

00:04:51   that would have made it cool that was if [TS]

00:04:52   I'd like ripped off my clothes and I had [TS]

00:04:53   a tuxedo underneath after surprised he's [TS]

00:04:57   your man and she just looks at me and [TS]

00:04:59   says well I didn't see you going to say [TS]

00:05:02   and I said I came from next door has [TS]

00:05:04   been locked out knocking on the door and [TS]

00:05:05   swam here from the Villa next door she [TS]

00:05:07   went huh [TS]

00:05:08   I thought maybe you'd gone for swimming [TS]

00:05:09   I hadn't noticed I was so deflated like [TS]

00:05:12   that was gonna be like that was gonna be [TS]

00:05:14   like the story that she would tell that [TS]

00:05:16   used to come of the day her husband just [TS]

00:05:18   emerged from the sea and because i feel [TS]

00:05:21   like i'm mostly on your wife side of [TS]

00:05:23   remarkable unimpressive pneus because [TS]

00:05:25   I'm looking actually at some satellite [TS]

00:05:28   pictures of these of these villas like [TS]

00:05:30   i've been i've been browsing around and [TS]

00:05:31   google while you're talking and yeah it [TS]

00:05:33   looks like these things these little [TS]

00:05:36   houses on the sea they can't be more [TS]

00:05:38   than 10 feet apart so well it's acting [TS]

00:05:41   like it's like you're trying to start [TS]

00:05:44   like your impact like you're super [TS]

00:05:45   impressive here like you swam across the [TS]

00:05:47   open ocean you know the next Island [TS]

00:05:50   right to the next Island when you got [TS]

00:05:52   locked out you know and like blown [TS]

00:05:55   across the ocean like but act but [TS]

00:05:57   actually what you're talking about is [TS]

00:05:59   you just got a little wet barely moving [TS]

00:06:02   any kind of distance like I looking at [TS]

00:06:04   these photos I who hates the ocean who [TS]

00:06:08   hasn't touched the ocean in a decade [TS]

00:06:10   possibly i would feel completely [TS]

00:06:12   comfortable swimming from one of these [TS]

00:06:14   villains to the others if I got locked [TS]

00:06:16   out just like this life i'm totally with [TS]

00:06:19   your wife on that's what this was not a [TS]

00:06:20   great fate of swimming i will i will [TS]

00:06:23   grab I will grant you that it's not even [TS]

00:06:25   like some genius plan that you came up [TS]

00:06:27   with like the obvious thing to do [TS]

00:06:30   no other things to do not use the [TS]

00:06:32   Aldean's equivalent of of walking [TS]

00:06:35   through you [TS]

00:06:35   neighbours backyard to get to your own [TS]

00:06:37   house yep that's what this is it's so [TS]

00:06:40   impressive maybe even building up his [TS]

00:06:42   story today about like oh we great you [TS]

00:06:44   would you just can't wait i have such a [TS]

00:06:46   story to tell you about getting locked [TS]

00:06:48   out of my hotel and I'm sitting here [TS]

00:06:50   like waiting for the story to happen but [TS]

00:06:52   I have just the just is unimpressed as [TS]

00:06:55   your wife is would you have been as [TS]

00:06:57   comfortable doing this swim if the night [TS]

00:06:59   before when you were looking through [TS]

00:07:01   your glass window in the in the floor [TS]

00:07:04   you had seen three count em three [TS]

00:07:08   five-foot-long sharks swimming under [TS]

00:07:12   your villa for 20 minutes this water [TS]

00:07:15   Brady is crystal clear you could you [TS]

00:07:19   could see sharks for miles [TS]

00:07:22   I'm you know that's not that's not true [TS]

00:07:24   which with that's not true with sharks [TS]

00:07:26   and fish even when the water is clear [TS]

00:07:27   and literally miles that's not true [TS]

00:07:31   there are many times I'm swimming in the [TS]

00:07:33   motives and suddenly like there's a [TS]

00:07:34   sharp like a reef shark or something [TS]

00:07:36   right next to me that you couldn't say [TS]

00:07:38   from from above but anyway yeah but reef [TS]

00:07:40   shark like you're not gonna get eaten by [TS]

00:07:41   reef shark and it's just you know it's [TS]

00:07:43   cool that this kind of thing to tell [TS]

00:07:45   someone who i was there was a reef shark [TS]

00:07:47   bite me but it's not gonna it's not [TS]

00:07:48   gonna eat you [TS]

00:07:49   this is this is no great white shark I I [TS]

00:07:51   think you're missing the point of the [TS]

00:07:53   story and you know you do i am you you [TS]

00:07:56   actually I think you're missing the [TS]

00:07:58   point of your story you actually hit the [TS]

00:08:01   point of the story without realizing it [TS]

00:08:03   was the point of the story you actually [TS]

00:08:04   said what I think the funny point of the [TS]

00:08:06   story is this is this was not a great [TS]

00:08:08   feat of athleticism but the thing that I [TS]

00:08:12   think is funny about this story is what [TS]

00:08:13   you said that the that the more davion [TS]

00:08:16   equivalent of going through your [TS]

00:08:17   neighbor's backyard to get into the [TS]

00:08:19   house involves swimming in the ocean [TS]

00:08:22   I think that's lovely it is it look [TS]

00:08:25   lovely yes remotely impressive now [TS]

00:08:29   well pumpkin like looking at the [TS]

00:08:32   satellite photos the very reason they're [TS]

00:08:34   able to do build these houses where they [TS]

00:08:36   are is because you're not over like that [TS]

00:08:39   like the continental shelf here with his [TS]

00:08:41   water resistant water that you down [TS]

00:08:44   forever you're on the top of a natal [TS]

00:08:46   like [TS]

00:08:47   it's just it's unimpressive in every way [TS]

00:08:50   could possibly be and you can I do swim [TS]

00:08:53   out to the dark part where the drop-off [TS]

00:08:55   goes because I because i love snorkeling [TS]

00:08:56   and you swim along and so it's quite [TS]

00:08:58   shallow and then you go to the drop-off [TS]

00:09:00   wear just plunges down into the dark [TS]

00:09:02   blue and that is freaky when you swim to [TS]

00:09:04   their like that that that's that's quite [TS]

00:09:06   scary and I see how far I can swim out [TS]

00:09:08   above that and yeah that the tech that's [TS]

00:09:10   terrifying [TS]

00:09:11   that's having fun rolling the dice on [TS]

00:09:13   your life right that's something I would [TS]

00:09:14   not do not under any circumstances not [TS]

00:09:17   ever [TS]

00:09:18   well I'll grant you there like that [TS]

00:09:21   that's why you were telling me that [TS]

00:09:22   these eight holes are all in like a [TS]

00:09:23   circle and so if you're telling me you [TS]

00:09:25   it's you know swam across the open a [TS]

00:09:27   business in the center to get to the [TS]

00:09:29   other side then I feel like now that's a [TS]

00:09:31   man i am impressed by like but this is [TS]

00:09:34   just it's nothing it's nothing [TS]

00:09:35   well if you can show me the text or the [TS]

00:09:39   email or remind me of the conversation [TS]

00:09:41   that happened where I said I did [TS]

00:09:43   something incredibly impressive to get [TS]

00:09:45   into a locked hotel room i will [TS]

00:09:47   apologize my recollection is that i had [TS]

00:09:50   just a funny light-hearted moment that [TS]

00:09:52   happened when I locked myself out of a [TS]

00:09:53   hotel and because it did not involve [TS]

00:09:56   putting my life at risk it seems to be [TS]

00:09:59   inadequate for the hello Internet [TS]

00:10:00   podcast and for that i apologize [TS]

00:10:03   you've been traveling quite a bit [TS]

00:10:07   ah yeah you've traveled twice to the [TS]

00:10:09   same place [TS]

00:10:11   amsterdam we didn't talk about it last [TS]

00:10:12   time but yes I went three months ago and [TS]

00:10:14   i was just recently in Amsterdam as well [TS]

00:10:17   again and I just just came back [TS]

00:10:19   yesterday or the day before yesterday as [TS]

00:10:22   i recently returned and you just go [TS]

00:10:23   there and work you just go there and [TS]

00:10:25   second stay in a hotel and see on your [TS]

00:10:26   computer basically and add yet my [TS]

00:10:28   swimming in the sea stories too boring [TS]

00:10:31   it wasn't about to tell you already have [TS]

00:10:35   an amazing story about how I was on my [TS]

00:10:38   computer and I locked myself out of my [TS]

00:10:40   room and went down to reception and get [TS]

00:10:42   a replacement card [TS]

00:10:44   why do you why do you do this great you [TS]

00:10:46   haven't you have a perfectly serviceable [TS]

00:10:47   apartment you have a little office space [TS]

00:10:49   as well in London you have you have all [TS]

00:10:51   your little libraries and coffee shops [TS]

00:10:53   and nooks and crannies you can work in [TS]

00:10:55   is that not enough for you it isn't [TS]

00:10:57   enough for me Brady heads true i need i [TS]

00:10:59   need more novelty [TS]

00:11:00   in my life on occasion this is the thing [TS]

00:11:02   that I have always done is to take [TS]

00:11:05   little breaks away from my normal [TS]

00:11:07   routine and now that I'm like [TS]

00:11:10   self-employed and I'm on my own it's [TS]

00:11:12   it's a situation like oh I can actually [TS]

00:11:14   take a break not just when I have off [TS]

00:11:17   from work I can do it at any point and [TS]

00:11:19   so I found a place that I liked in [TS]

00:11:21   amsterdam and yes I went there is most [TS]

00:11:24   recent trip I was there for two weeks [TS]

00:11:26   and everything about this experience I [TS]

00:11:29   like because I went there with the [TS]

00:11:31   intention of working and it was just [TS]

00:11:34   great [TS]

00:11:36   it just narrows my focus was like I [TS]

00:11:38   don't have to worry about a whole bunch [TS]

00:11:40   of other stuff like I'm just there and I [TS]

00:11:41   can concentrate on a few things like I [TS]

00:11:44   can concentrate on the finished Ron [TS]

00:11:46   lifestyle of course and I can [TS]

00:11:48   concentrate on some work that had been [TS]

00:11:50   on my mind for a while that I was trying [TS]

00:11:52   to complete and finish and concentrate [TS]

00:11:54   on writing and like that's it like life [TS]

00:11:56   is very simple it's very straightforward [TS]

00:11:59   and I I really I really benefit from [TS]

00:12:02   doing this on occasion so I did it [TS]

00:12:04   recently I i turn but i think its weight [TS]

00:12:08   but let's eat [TS]

00:12:09   why do you think it's weird I know why [TS]

00:12:11   you think it's weird you think it's [TS]

00:12:13   weird because you're a workaholic who is [TS]

00:12:16   able to just work all the time at any [TS]

00:12:18   time with no problems whatsoever that's [TS]

00:12:20   you break your the machine in this [TS]

00:12:21   relationship really you're always able [TS]

00:12:23   to crank out stuff [TS]

00:12:24   no that's not true and home has its [TS]

00:12:26   distractions like the knocking on the [TS]

00:12:27   door and the things of life but also [TS]

00:12:29   home has all the things i need and like [TS]

00:12:32   if I go away I and inevitably will not [TS]

00:12:34   have some things I need but I i don't [TS]

00:12:37   know i guess i'd have to travel so much [TS]

00:12:39   anyway that unnecessary travel like does [TS]

00:12:43   not appeal to me and you mean [TS]

00:12:46   unnecessary work travel like that's [TS]

00:12:48   that's the difference here because you [TS]

00:12:49   just did unnecessary and unnecessary [TS]

00:12:51   travel to the Maldives yeah but that was [TS]

00:12:53   that [TS]

00:12:53   well here's a key difference there I did [TS]

00:12:55   that with my wife who and the other [TS]

00:12:57   thing that I find strange about it is [TS]

00:13:00   that you go away on your own now I now [TS]

00:13:02   you're an introvert sort of stuff but my [TS]

00:13:04   wife has to work and she's also happy to [TS]

00:13:06   have me out of the house for a little [TS]

00:13:07   while [TS]

00:13:08   that's how relationships work you know [TS]

00:13:09   you gotta be on the same page about this [TS]

00:13:10   kind of stuff [TS]

00:13:11   yeah yeah she's cool with it but [TS]

00:13:13   I'm happy for you and you might you just [TS]

00:13:15   sit around the hotel de you don't got a [TS]

00:13:17   lot to and Frank's house and you know [TS]

00:13:19   walk the canals and stuff to sit in city [TS]

00:13:22   computer or so actually happened to when [TS]

00:13:26   I started this trip I happened to [TS]

00:13:27   install a new app on my phone which does [TS]

00:13:29   like automatic location tracking and [TS]

00:13:31   tries to build a little report of what [TS]

00:13:33   you've been up to which I felt like I [TS]

00:13:34   was interesting let me try this thing [TS]

00:13:35   and according to that i left the hotel [TS]

00:13:39   aside from phila tron lifestyle runs [TS]

00:13:42   which I was doing but excluding those in [TS]

00:13:44   14 days i left the hotel three days [TS]

00:13:47   really one of them was to meet up with a [TS]

00:13:50   friend who came up to visit me for the [TS]

00:13:52   final day of the trip but mostly because [TS]

00:13:54   I just I just stay in in the hotel [TS]

00:13:57   the downside of this though is that the [TS]

00:14:00   hotel staff get to know me way too well [TS]

00:14:02   while I want to just be this anonymous [TS]

00:14:06   person in the hotel i also have like [TS]

00:14:08   picky requests with food or the way [TS]

00:14:11   think I want things done and so I'm [TS]

00:14:13   immediately identified and recognizable [TS]

00:14:15   by all of the staff one of the times [TS]

00:14:17   that I went out was to was to fix a [TS]

00:14:21   problem because i was originally only [TS]

00:14:23   supposed to be an acronym for a week and [TS]

00:14:25   i ended up extending the trip longer for [TS]

00:14:27   a week but because i only thought i was [TS]

00:14:30   going to be there for a week [TS]

00:14:31   I did not bring shaving supplies and I [TS]

00:14:35   had arrived slightly scruffy and I would [TS]

00:14:38   I thought like oh but i'll be leaving at [TS]

00:14:39   the end of the week it's it's it's no [TS]

00:14:40   big deal but when I extended longer i [TS]

00:14:43   realized around 8n that ok all of the [TS]

00:14:47   hotel staff know exactly who i am i am [TS]

00:14:50   this also this guy who's like clearly [TS]

00:14:52   not wanting to talk to anybody and is [TS]

00:14:53   super picky and is now also becoming [TS]

00:14:56   like extremely scraggly looking and I [TS]

00:14:59   realize like okay I am falling into like [TS]

00:15:03   a Howard Hughes type situation here in [TS]

00:15:06   this hotel you know how you just have [TS]

00:15:10   this feeling like I think the perception [TS]

00:15:13   of me is suddenly changing their [TS]

00:15:15   beginning to wonder if when i check out [TS]

00:15:17   there going to find bottles of pee in [TS]

00:15:19   the hotel room stashed away or something [TS]

00:15:21   one of the reasons i went outside at one [TS]

00:15:23   point was solely to catch shaving [TS]

00:15:25   equipment [TS]

00:15:26   because i wanted to shave but because i [TS]

00:15:29   felt this like responsibility to give [TS]

00:15:32   some kind of indication to the hotel [TS]

00:15:34   staff like don't worry don't worry don't [TS]

00:15:37   still a normal person who is able to [TS]

00:15:40   take care of himself [TS]

00:15:41   I am NOT just a weirdo who has checked [TS]

00:15:44   into this hotel and it's going to end up [TS]

00:15:46   living here but looking like a homeless [TS]

00:15:48   person in his hoodie unshaven and [TS]

00:15:52   scruffy so I i have never ever shaved [TS]

00:15:57   more thoroughly or more carefully than I [TS]

00:16:01   did at about day 10 in that 12 in that [TS]

00:16:03   hotel because I thought I need to look [TS]

00:16:05   so well put together I need to not be [TS]

00:16:08   coming out like cuts all over my face [TS]

00:16:10   covered with and I swear I swear to you [TS]

00:16:16   Brady the staff in the restaurant and [TS]

00:16:18   everywhere else did stop treating me [TS]

00:16:20   like maybe this guy's little weird like [TS]

00:16:22   after I had shaved this totally did in [TS]

00:16:25   their minds reset the clock to like okay [TS]

00:16:28   he's a person who can take care of [TS]

00:16:30   himself he's not just a freak is going [TS]

00:16:31   to live here indefinitely [TS]

00:16:33   that was your James Bond moment when you [TS]

00:16:34   came down the lobby stairs and your tax [TS]

00:16:37   all clean shaven and over all the [TS]

00:16:38   waitresses return they had it went wow I [TS]

00:16:41   had no idea who's that guy that's the [TS]

00:16:43   guy with the beard doubles OmniFocus [TS]

00:16:45   that is not the same i ah it looks [TS]

00:16:49   amazing there let me ask you this though [TS]

00:16:52   amsterdam you know it's one of the great [TS]

00:16:54   cities of Europe and as such it is [TS]

00:16:56   therefore not a cheap city to go to if [TS]

00:16:58   you want to stay in a nice hotel and [TS]

00:17:00   pretty much stay in a hotel most of the [TS]

00:17:02   time [TS]

00:17:02   why go to a city as expensive as [TS]

00:17:04   amsterdam why not find a luxurious hotel [TS]

00:17:07   in some remote location where you can [TS]

00:17:09   get more and nicer hotel fiat money [TS]

00:17:12   ok so Brady the thing is I didn't go to [TS]

00:17:14   Amsterdam the first time because i [TS]

00:17:16   thought oh I want to go to Amsterdam [TS]

00:17:17   like this is a city that I want to go to [TS]

00:17:19   now I did this ad exact reverse way [TS]

00:17:21   which is I was trying to find a hotel [TS]

00:17:24   that I would want to spend a significant [TS]

00:17:27   amount of time in and he didn't care [TS]

00:17:29   where in the world it was so i was [TS]

00:17:32   trying to find a place that looked like [TS]

00:17:34   a place that I want to stay and the [TS]

00:17:35   number one thing the number one thing [TS]

00:17:37   that I cannot stand with most hotels is [TS]

00:17:40   that they're just so fancy especially [TS]

00:17:42   European hotels where they have like all [TS]

00:17:45   of this French 17th century furniture [TS]

00:17:48   looking stuff and they cramp up the [TS]

00:17:50   rooms with everything I just I cannot [TS]

00:17:53   stand that kind of thing in a hotel like [TS]

00:17:55   I would I wouldn't want to stay in that [TS]

00:17:57   sort of hotel because it's just mentally [TS]

00:17:59   cluttering it's just overwhelming [TS]

00:18:01   so what I was really doing is how is [TS]

00:18:03   looking all over the continent of Europe [TS]

00:18:06   trying to find hotels that were [TS]

00:18:08   relatively minimalistic and that's that [TS]

00:18:11   was actually my primary thing and the [TS]

00:18:13   fact that it was in Amsterdam that was [TS]

00:18:15   just a secondary effect it could have [TS]

00:18:17   been anywhere and i would have I would [TS]

00:18:18   have travelled to it [TS]

00:18:19   Amsterdam is quite close which is handy [TS]

00:18:20   as well I guess that's not a long flight [TS]

00:18:23   do you fly there or now in July took the [TS]

00:18:25   train out I took the train out I thought [TS]

00:18:26   like that do this the nice way so it's [TS]

00:18:28   been like a day traveling out on the [TS]

00:18:29   train and a while at the hotel and then [TS]

00:18:32   I took the train back [TS]

00:18:33   so what do you do you get the Eurostar [TS]

00:18:34   to Paris and change or what haha yes [TS]

00:18:37   your started to Brussels and then [TS]

00:18:39   Russell's to amsterdam brussels which is [TS]

00:18:42   one of the ugliest train stations I've [TS]

00:18:44   ever seen process is horrible [TS]

00:18:46   mmm nice one so for a lot of people [TS]

00:18:49   listening I think Amsterdam is famous [TS]

00:18:51   for its tolerance of activities that [TS]

00:18:55   would be illegal in many other places [TS]

00:18:57   and and you obviously like one of the [TS]

00:19:00   squarest people i know so do you do you [TS]

00:19:04   ever wonder around and sort of [TS]

00:19:06   experience or not experience but you [TS]

00:19:09   know experience the city and look at all [TS]

00:19:11   that stuff going on and think wow this [TS]

00:19:13   is cool or be sort of how do you how do [TS]

00:19:15   you feel about that side of things [TS]

00:19:16   because if we don't talk about [TS]

00:19:17   everyone's going to comment on it turns [TS]

00:19:20   out you can't go to Amsterdam on your [TS]

00:19:23   own without your wife for an extended [TS]

00:19:26   period of time without people making a [TS]

00:19:28   lot of assumptions about the nature of [TS]

00:19:31   the trip [TS]

00:19:31   yes and no matter how much you try to [TS]

00:19:34   talk people out of it there is not going [TS]

00:19:35   to believe it this is nice and the thing [TS]

00:19:37   that i have come across but as I think [TS]

00:19:40   we've discussed before on the show like [TS]

00:19:41   I'm actually quite boring like I'm not a [TS]

00:19:43   person who has [TS]

00:19:44   done any illegal substances I would [TS]

00:19:48   never have guessed you would not have [TS]

00:19:49   guessed so you've decided enough of that [TS]

00:19:53   Maddie is gonna get crazy and you're [TS]

00:19:55   like two years or that's not it [TS]

00:19:58   so I am still I'm still boring in that [TS]

00:20:02   way also some of the other services that [TS]

00:20:05   Amsterdam makes available i have not [TS]

00:20:08   partaken in those services either but I [TS]

00:20:10   i think it is great that a place like [TS]

00:20:13   Amsterdam exists i am so on the side [TS]

00:20:16   like if you if grown-ups want to do [TS]

00:20:19   something and they are consenting or [TS]

00:20:22   they are not hurting anybody else like I [TS]

00:20:23   am very much on the side like obviously [TS]

00:20:25   that should be legal [TS]

00:20:27   that's that's my position and I'd like I [TS]

00:20:29   actually I quite like being in a place [TS]

00:20:31   where stuff that to me seems like [TS]

00:20:34   obviously this shouldn't be illegal [TS]

00:20:36   I'm kind of happy to be in a place where [TS]

00:20:38   it's allowed even if i am not partaking [TS]

00:20:41   in any of it just it just feels quite [TS]

00:20:42   reasonable [TS]

00:20:43   even though i'm totally on board with [TS]

00:20:45   them being legal it is kind of weird [TS]

00:20:49   nonetheless sometimes to turn a corner [TS]

00:20:51   and find yourself quite literally [TS]

00:20:54   face-to-face with this like you know i'm [TS]

00:20:57   totally on board with it sometimes I did [TS]

00:21:00   find it quite surprising on the [TS]

00:21:02   occasions i was walking around or even [TS]

00:21:03   just cut sorted by the hotel like go [TS]

00:21:06   outside and turn the corner and all of a [TS]

00:21:07   sudden it's like oh I am literally feet [TS]

00:21:11   away from someone selling the amsterdam [TS]

00:21:14   specialties and hospital it's like wow [TS]

00:21:17   the actual buying and selling of these [TS]

00:21:19   services that seems to be quite socially [TS]

00:21:21   awkward you're talking about the the [TS]

00:21:23   physical services not the chemical [TS]

00:21:25   services [TS]

00:21:26   yes the physical services that the [TS]

00:21:27   chemical services because their children [TS]

00:21:28   in the room of course we have to talk in [TS]

00:21:30   broad terms but yes it's a little weird [TS]

00:21:33   to look one of those vendors in the I [TS]

00:21:35   like at at close range unexpectedly like [TS]

00:21:39   oh do you ever and this is not this is [TS]

00:21:41   not a CD question because this is one of [TS]

00:21:43   the main tourist things of amsterdam do [TS]

00:21:45   you ever walk through it like the the [TS]

00:21:47   bespoke area of amsterdam that is a more [TS]

00:21:51   red in its illumination the redline [TS]

00:21:53   victory [TS]

00:21:54   yes I don't know what I don't know what [TS]

00:21:56   we're saying now you've reminded [TS]

00:21:58   we have all the little people this now [TS]

00:21:59   that is that's one of the most [TS]

00:22:02   interesting things to do in amsterdam [TS]

00:22:03   and I can assure you there are about [TS]

00:22:05   four thousand tourists for every one [TS]

00:22:08   person who was actually there trying to [TS]

00:22:09   partake in those services with my [TS]

00:22:11   feeling was mostly was like well this is [TS]

00:22:13   very strange like I'm again I'm glad [TS]

00:22:15   this thing exists but it's kind of weird [TS]

00:22:17   that it does i'm always surprised that [TS]

00:22:19   it's quite like it's quite a beautiful [TS]

00:22:21   area isn't the little little yesterday [TS]

00:22:23   in ways and canals and the complete [TS]

00:22:26   foreignness of what's happening [TS]

00:22:28   obviously makes it quite a bit a bit [TS]

00:22:30   disoriented but you know obviously it's [TS]

00:22:33   really strange thing to say sort of a [TS]

00:22:34   glass door and there's a lady there who [TS]

00:22:36   wanting to do business and give the [TS]

00:22:40   children Brady talking about about it [TS]

00:22:43   but but but but I certainly yeah it said [TS]

00:22:47   it's certainly very different it's [TS]

00:22:48   certainly very exotic an interesting [TS]

00:22:50   place and but also good place for [TS]

00:22:53   business obviously for the great [TS]

00:22:55   business [TS]

00:22:56   yeah definitely got a lot of work done [TS]

00:22:58   got a lot of things done very happy very [TS]

00:23:00   happy [TS]

00:23:02   today's sponsor is audible.com who has [TS]

00:23:05   more than 180,000 audiobooks and spoken [TS]

00:23:08   word audio products you can get a free [TS]

00:23:12   30-day trial today by going to [TS]

00:23:14   audible.com / hello Internet as always [TS]

00:23:18   audible wants us to recommend to you a [TS]

00:23:20   book to listen to and this time I'm [TS]

00:23:22   reaching into the classic archive of [TS]

00:23:26   books that i have liked to bring you [TS]

00:23:28   Snow Crash by neal stephenson it's a [TS]

00:23:32   classic science fiction book that was [TS]

00:23:34   written at a bit of the dawn of the [TS]

00:23:36   Internet age in the early nineties but [TS]

00:23:38   that i reread recently and still holds [TS]

00:23:42   up marvelously as always with these [TS]

00:23:44   things I don't want to spoil any of the [TS]

00:23:47   plot for you so if you trust me this is [TS]

00:23:50   just a recommendation that I'm passing [TS]

00:23:51   on though I will say the book has one of [TS]

00:23:54   my favorite lines ever about companies [TS]

00:23:58   will just say that companies play a [TS]

00:23:59   large role in this book and that line is [TS]

00:24:02   the franchise and the virus work on the [TS]

00:24:05   same principle what thrives in one place [TS]

00:24:07   will thrive in another you just have to [TS]

00:24:10   find a sufficiently very [TS]

00:24:11   Island business plan condense it into a [TS]

00:24:13   three-ring binder [TS]

00:24:15   its DNA xerox it and embedded in the [TS]

00:24:18   Fertile lining of a well-traveled [TS]

00:24:20   Highway preferably one with a left turn [TS]

00:24:23   lane then its growth will expand until [TS]

00:24:26   it runs up against its property lines [TS]

00:24:28   that's a hell of a paragraph i just love [TS]

00:24:32   that and I think about that every time I [TS]

00:24:35   see franchises along the highway [TS]

00:24:38   that's what a good book can do it can [TS]

00:24:39   plant a thought in your mind forever so [TS]

00:24:42   that's my recommendation today snow [TS]

00:24:44   crash by neal stephenson so of course [TS]

00:24:46   audible has books on absolutely [TS]

00:24:49   everything in every genre you can [TS]

00:24:51   possibly imagine and what I really like [TS]

00:24:54   is if you start a book and you don't [TS]

00:24:56   like it you can just return it no [TS]

00:24:58   questions asked it's very easy [TS]

00:25:01   it makes getting into a new book a [TS]

00:25:03   no-risk proposition so once again go to [TS]

00:25:08   audible.com / hello internet and start [TS]

00:25:11   your free audible trial today and thanks [TS]

00:25:14   to audible for supporting the show you [TS]

00:25:18   were saying before the show that we [TS]

00:25:20   should just talk at length about gun [TS]

00:25:22   jams and still no no not going to five [TS]

00:25:25   guys germs and steel that we've had a [TS]

00:25:26   lot of feedback we have had a lot of [TS]

00:25:29   feedback but I need to I need to load it [TS]

00:25:30   all in my brain to be able to talk about [TS]

00:25:32   the whole thing I can't talk about this [TS]

00:25:34   now don't worry Brady because i know i [TS]

00:25:38   know there's nothing you love more than [TS]

00:25:40   really picky detailed follow-up I think [TS]

00:25:43   about a topic that you're not super [TS]

00:25:44   interested in I don't worry we'll get to [TS]

00:25:47   it at some point but not today not today [TS]

00:25:49   wasn't one person wrote a response iso [TS]

00:25:52   and I think their response was longer [TS]

00:25:53   than the book [TS]

00:25:54   yeah there there there have been many [TS]

00:25:56   many comments we were sort of time at [TS]

00:25:58   some point you're not going to drop into [TS]

00:26:00   it now is that what you're trying to do [TS]

00:26:03   honestly grey I cannot draw you into it [TS]

00:26:05   because i have not I have not processed [TS]

00:26:07   and read it like that you know I i flip [TS]

00:26:09   i skim read the red when it was early [TS]

00:26:12   days but I sort of i didn't understand [TS]

00:26:15   most of it we'll get back to it later [TS]

00:26:18   ok let's get to what you really love [TS]

00:26:20   which is the bi weekly weigh-in [TS]

00:26:22   bi-weekly way in which is more like a [TS]

00:26:25   try [TS]

00:26:27   monthly discussion little that's what i [TS]

00:26:30   was saying today we have to do the [TS]

00:26:32   bi-weekly way and because we haven't [TS]

00:26:33   done it in I can't quite remember how [TS]

00:26:35   long the last time we did it i just [TS]

00:26:37   remember saying I gained a bunch of [TS]

00:26:38   weight from Christmas yeah and I think [TS]

00:26:40   you hadn't weighed yourself then but [TS]

00:26:41   then you told me today that you haven't [TS]

00:26:43   weighed yourself again so how long has [TS]

00:26:44   it been since you weighed yourself man [TS]

00:26:46   i I don't know how would I know that and [TS]

00:26:50   I don't you have a spreadsheet you [TS]

00:26:52   haven't been keeping a spreadsheet i [TS]

00:26:54   haven't been keeping a spreadsheet and i [TS]

00:26:55   haven't actually been running for the [TS]

00:26:57   last couple of weeks either for a few [TS]

00:26:58   reasons so your region open the [TS]

00:27:00   spreadsheet to put my running times in [TS]

00:27:02   and i have not been running either so [TS]

00:27:03   I'm basically rubbish he said as he [TS]

00:27:07   rigged as he reached for another [TS]

00:27:08   schedule and soup of dr.pepper you reach [TS]

00:27:10   for a single skittle my kind of lots of [TS]

00:27:12   skills when the podcast because that [TS]

00:27:14   feel like my mouth but i can i can sneak [TS]

00:27:16   only get one in occasionally is that [TS]

00:27:18   what you do when recording is sneaking [TS]

00:27:19   skills into your mental now I'm not [TS]

00:27:21   normally but I've got back here at the [TS]

00:27:23   moment [TS]

00:27:23   look at that that sounds like a pretty [TS]

00:27:27   big pack of those jumbo pack of Skittles [TS]

00:27:30   yeah limited-edition darkside skills so [TS]

00:27:32   I've gone for the darkside skills not [TS]

00:27:34   officially part of the trial lifestyle [TS]

00:27:36   that's why they're dioxides get it was [TS]

00:27:37   great oh I just dropped him [TS]

00:27:40   oh they're all over the pillow know ru [TS]

00:27:49   darkside skills are to make sure I [TS]

00:27:55   picked them up before audrey gets back [TS]

00:27:57   they're everywhere great have bet that [TS]

00:28:00   you are it's like a big rainbow carpet I [TS]

00:28:05   think there's the filter on God's [TS]

00:28:07   punishing you can I that's great because [TS]

00:28:12   they're too big to vacuum as well he's [TS]

00:28:14   just getting up to pick the model up and [TS]

00:28:16   now it's messing with my head [TS]

00:28:19   don't say anything though it's still [TS]

00:28:21   here he's choking up I just put one in [TS]

00:28:25   my fingers are all sticky from picking [TS]

00:28:27   them up [TS]

00:28:28   it's all going wrong right anyway so [TS]

00:28:36   we'll like pick up skills why don't you [TS]

00:28:37   tell people that you know what your [TS]

00:28:39   weight is is something seriously going [TS]

00:28:41   to try to be picking up skills while [TS]

00:28:42   we're doing this podcast yeah that you [TS]

00:28:44   can't do it I'm doing it now [TS]

00:28:46   no you can't do this man Oh everyone and [TS]

00:28:49   I know I bet they are [TS]

00:28:50   i'll pick a lot of them up now [TS]

00:28:54   ok come on what are you a hater for our [TS]

00:28:58   bi-weekly way and theoretically this is [TS]

00:29:01   the week that I get to say that i am [TS]

00:29:03   finally at my goal of being under 200 [TS]

00:29:07   pounds no time [TS]

00:29:10   thank you i am super excited about that [TS]

00:29:14   just barely [TS]

00:29:16   uh I weighed myself this morning and i [TS]

00:29:18   am one 99.5 which is still within a [TS]

00:29:21   rounding error over 200 but I'm gonna [TS]

00:29:24   literally couldn't count that I'm gonna [TS]

00:29:26   count that last one [TS]

00:29:27   and what did you tell her but did you go [TS]

00:29:29   to five guys and pick up [TS]

00:29:31   ok so actually I didn't have a [TS]

00:29:33   celebration so we were talking before i [TS]

00:29:34   was at amsterdam right and one of the [TS]

00:29:37   other things like being in Amsterdam [TS]

00:29:39   being in that hotel one of the other [TS]

00:29:40   things it's really easy to do was like [TS]

00:29:42   okay well i'm not at home [TS]

00:29:44   I don't have the refrigerator like in my [TS]

00:29:46   room or anything there's limited food [TS]

00:29:48   selections there so while i was an [TS]

00:29:50   accident i was super focused on doing [TS]

00:29:52   the like the no-carb diet thing and just [TS]

00:29:55   like I'm not eating any carbohydrates [TS]

00:29:56   while I'm here I can focus on this I can [TS]

00:29:59   keep I can keep really really intense [TS]

00:30:01   with it and so I didn't eat any carbs [TS]

00:30:04   and that was partly why i lost about [TS]

00:30:06   about two or three pounds and each week [TS]

00:30:10   that i was there [TS]

00:30:11   well and but the thing was I knew as [TS]

00:30:15   soon as I've been there for a week I [TS]

00:30:17   thought you know what if I keep this up [TS]

00:30:18   I could just get under 200 pounds and my [TS]

00:30:22   my goal and my mental reward here was [TS]

00:30:26   that I knew that I had this friend [TS]

00:30:27   visiting on the final day and I thought [TS]

00:30:29   wow this is great [TS]

00:30:31   if if i can get under 200 pounds by the [TS]

00:30:36   time he arrives then i will allow myself [TS]

00:30:40   to not be a picky little person when [TS]

00:30:44   we're going out and we're eating if i [TS]

00:30:45   can get under 200 i will allow myself to [TS]

00:30:47   just have like a normal day of going out [TS]

00:30:49   with a friend like eating at restaurants [TS]

00:30:51   and just not being super picky cool and [TS]

00:30:54   so on the final day when my friend came [TS]

00:30:56   to visit we went out to this amazing [TS]

00:30:59   amazing omelet place which is actually [TS]

00:31:02   just by the Amsterdam Central Station [TS]

00:31:04   and I had a croissant with scrambled [TS]

00:31:09   eggs and cheese [TS]

00:31:11   I swear to god it was one of the most [TS]

00:31:12   delicious things I had everything ok [TS]

00:31:14   with it was the first bread that i had [TS]

00:31:17   had in two weeks you're like keep your [TS]

00:31:19   red light district i'm going to the [TS]

00:31:20   omelet district exactly it was as [TS]

00:31:23   sounding it was like this croissant with [TS]

00:31:27   these scrambled eggs is the best food I [TS]

00:31:29   have ever even in my whole life so nice [TS]

00:31:32   that was kind of my celebration and it [TS]

00:31:34   was after two weeks while actually [TS]

00:31:36   really a few days of every time the [TS]

00:31:39   hotel staff when i get breakfast there [TS]

00:31:40   they bring over like muffins and bread [TS]

00:31:42   and every morning I'd be like I know I [TS]

00:31:43   don't know I don't even want the muffins [TS]

00:31:44   on my table I don't want the bread on my [TS]

00:31:46   table and eventually they all learned [TS]

00:31:48   that I was the weird guy who didn't want [TS]

00:31:50   bread with anything quite like whenever [TS]

00:31:52   you order coffee in the hotel [TS]

00:31:53   it comes with some cookies and I'd have [TS]

00:31:55   to keep telling them like oh no I don't [TS]

00:31:56   want any cookies with this and then [TS]

00:31:57   eventually just learned brought me all [TS]

00:31:59   the stuff without anything right yeah so [TS]

00:32:01   that was my celebration [TS]

00:32:02   what now grey what-what-what next like [TS]

00:32:04   to look at do look now wait because [TS]

00:32:06   there are no more weight to conquer in [TS]

00:32:08   my mind I kind of thought that by the [TS]

00:32:10   time i was under 200 like everything [TS]

00:32:12   would be amazing and i would be some [TS]

00:32:14   kind of super Adonis but actually look [TS]

00:32:17   in the mirror and I realized like oh [TS]

00:32:18   what I really done is now i'm just a [TS]

00:32:21   normal person who could still go with [TS]

00:32:22   losing a few more pounds like para [TS]

00:32:24   actually what it is but I think for [TS]

00:32:27   prior to getting here I had imagined [TS]

00:32:29   that this was like the final end state [TS]

00:32:30   right so now I think I realize like I [TS]

00:32:33   still I still want to lose maybe five [TS]

00:32:35   more pounds and give myself a little bit [TS]

00:32:37   of a buffer to never be over 200 [TS]

00:32:39   again so 195 is the new target I think [TS]

00:32:43   195 is the new target might take me a [TS]

00:32:45   long time to get there but I I think I'd [TS]

00:32:47   feel a lot more comfortable having a [TS]

00:32:48   buffer because if I can i really never [TS]

00:32:51   want to be over 200 again but yeah I [TS]

00:32:54   feel like a normal person and i realized [TS]

00:32:57   i was looking through some of my data [TS]

00:32:58   before and realize that I am now [TS]

00:33:01   30 pounds lighter than i was at my [TS]

00:33:03   absolute fastest which was not years ago [TS]

00:33:06   nice work yeah so did you did you get [TS]

00:33:09   because your wife hadn't seen you for a [TS]

00:33:11   while when you got back from Amsterdam [TS]

00:33:12   did she like notice a difference and say [TS]

00:33:14   wow you look awesome [TS]

00:33:15   yeah pretty much which was very [TS]

00:33:16   satisfying yeah she noticed right away [TS]

00:33:18   when I came home she was just because [TS]

00:33:21   there was a bit like holy cow he look [TS]

00:33:23   like a different person followed by the [TS]

00:33:25   very satisfying you should go to [TS]

00:33:26   Amsterdam more often [TS]

00:33:28   hi everyone it's time for another one of [TS]

00:33:31   our sponsorship raids and this one's a [TS]

00:33:32   little bit different for me because i'm [TS]

00:33:34   currently standing at the top of the [TS]

00:33:36   hill overlooking all of san francisco [TS]

00:33:39   and the bay area it's quite the sight [TS]

00:33:41   the golden gate bridge is right in front [TS]

00:33:43   of me and out to my left stretching away [TS]

00:33:46   is the direction of Silicon Valley and [TS]

00:33:49   it's here in San Francisco this place of [TS]

00:33:51   technology that are mine must go to the [TS]

00:33:54   thing that underpins all of our data led [TS]

00:33:56   lives and that is back up [TS]

00:33:59   you guessed it i'm here to talk about [TS]

00:34:00   backblaze the place to go for online [TS]

00:34:03   backup I used backblaze and I cannot [TS]

00:34:06   tell you how much peace of mind gives me [TS]

00:34:07   it's just installed on my computer it's [TS]

00:34:09   worrying away in the background [TS]

00:34:11   continually backing up everything to the [TS]

00:34:14   cloud [TS]

00:34:14   I've got a really cool interface it's [TS]

00:34:16   really easy to use some ridiculous [TS]

00:34:18   amount of data i think it's like a [TS]

00:34:19   hundred and fifty petabytes has been [TS]

00:34:22   stored on the back place service which I [TS]

00:34:25   think that far away from where I'm [TS]

00:34:26   talking to you at the moment so funny [TS]

00:34:28   way I guess I've kind of come all the [TS]

00:34:30   way from England to be closer to my [TS]

00:34:32   backed up data now if you lose something [TS]

00:34:34   on your computer and it happens it could [TS]

00:34:36   just be a single file you can really [TS]

00:34:38   easily go to backblaze and just have it [TS]

00:34:40   restored or if the worst happens and you [TS]

00:34:42   have a catastrophe you can recover all [TS]

00:34:45   that data not just through the web but [TS]

00:34:47   you can also contact back plays and now [TS]

00:34:49   send you on a hard drive which i can [TS]

00:34:51   imagine would be somewhat quick [TS]

00:34:52   then trying to do it through the [TS]

00:34:53   internet pipes it's also really changed [TS]

00:34:55   five dollars a month per computer so you [TS]

00:34:58   can have it running on your main one on [TS]

00:34:59   your laptop on your wife's on your [TS]

00:35:01   husband's on your boyfriend's your [TS]

00:35:02   girlfriends on your relatives in fact I [TS]

00:35:05   should probably get on my mom's computer [TS]

00:35:06   i can't imagine how upset she will be if [TS]

00:35:08   she ever loses all the photos now if you [TS]

00:35:10   want to check them out go to backblaze [TS]

00:35:12   dot-com / hello internet if you put the [TS]

00:35:15   / hello Internet don't know you came [TS]

00:35:17   from here now you can give them a trial [TS]

00:35:19   no credit card required get back players [TS]

00:35:21   running see how easy it is see how much [TS]

00:35:23   peace of mind it gives you and I feel [TS]

00:35:25   really confident you're likely to sign [TS]

00:35:27   on for the real deal will have just come [TS]

00:35:29   back inside and unbelievably while I was [TS]

00:35:31   outside recording that I've had a tweak [TS]

00:35:34   and it says thank you hello Internet FM [TS]

00:35:37   for making me get back blaze which has [TS]

00:35:39   just saved my brackets vegetarian bacon [TS]

00:35:43   so literally while I was telling you to [TS]

00:35:45   make sure you're protected one of our [TS]

00:35:47   listeners had their digital life saved [TS]

00:35:49   by backblaze so I think if people are [TS]

00:35:55   listening contemporaneously the thing [TS]

00:35:58   that they expect us to be talking about [TS]

00:36:00   is the YouTube careful involving the [TS]

00:36:07   film creators known as the fine brothers [TS]

00:36:10   fire rose [TS]

00:36:11   finebros I don't know what you call them [TS]

00:36:13   then you can exploit you explain what [TS]

00:36:15   happened great because this is a I'd be [TS]

00:36:17   interested to hear your explanation of [TS]

00:36:19   the controversy for anyone who's the bad [TS]

00:36:21   guys when it goes up like i have seen an [TS]

00:36:23   enormous number of people asking us to [TS]

00:36:25   comment on the fine brothers Gate Park [TS]

00:36:29   lips like whatever you want to put it [TS]

00:36:31   however you want to like what suffix you [TS]

00:36:33   want to fix to this is this big thing [TS]

00:36:36   that has happened and I think perhaps [TS]

00:36:40   for people who are unfamiliar with what [TS]

00:36:43   we're about to talk about to talk about [TS]

00:36:44   maybe the the shortest way to describe [TS]

00:36:48   the the facts of the situation is that [TS]

00:36:50   the fine brothers are run a very popular [TS]

00:36:53   youtube channel which [TS]

00:36:56   before all of this happened had [TS]

00:36:58   something like 14 million subscribers [TS]

00:37:00   and they put out a video which was [TS]

00:37:07   aiming to discuss a new licensing [TS]

00:37:10   program that they wanted to put in place [TS]

00:37:13   and then the internet reacted very badly [TS]

00:37:16   to this video of theirs that they put [TS]

00:37:18   out they made an update video and the [TS]

00:37:21   update video made the whole situation [TS]

00:37:23   even worse and it kind of exploded into [TS]

00:37:27   a massive massive kind of internet fight [TS]

00:37:32   over copyright and trademarks and [TS]

00:37:35   ownership of things and how to make [TS]

00:37:39   videos for large groups of people and [TS]

00:37:41   the value of the work of the fine [TS]

00:37:43   brothers like it spilled over into just [TS]

00:37:45   everything possible and was i'm going to [TS]

00:37:48   say probably one of the biggest like [TS]

00:37:51   internet explosions i have seen in a [TS]

00:37:53   long long time like it was just [TS]

00:37:56   constantly on the front page of sites [TS]

00:37:59   like Reddit it was all over Twitter it [TS]

00:38:01   was just this big big explosion that [TS]

00:38:04   connected to a whole bunch of stuff i [TS]

00:38:06   don't think you've done a brilliant job [TS]

00:38:08   although i think you have very [TS]

00:38:09   accurately given an overview but I think [TS]

00:38:11   you've gone a bit too [TS]

00:38:12   overview there to really bit be much [TS]

00:38:14   used to people find brothers Gray said [TS]

00:38:17   very very popular youtubers wait way [TS]

00:38:19   bigger than you no way bigger than us [TS]

00:38:21   leagues above us they've become their [TS]

00:38:23   their huge big things like 10x the size [TS]

00:38:26   of our challenge goes one of the [TS]

00:38:28   format's that they make which is sort of [TS]

00:38:31   being there big format that become [TS]

00:38:34   really famous for is this series of [TS]

00:38:36   videos about reactions it's become a [TS]

00:38:39   genre of videos this react format I've [TS]

00:38:41   got one called kids react [TS]

00:38:43   they've got one called elders react [TS]

00:38:45   which is older people and they basically [TS]

00:38:46   show them viral videos or objects or [TS]

00:38:50   things and now just film these people's [TS]

00:38:53   reactions to them they'll interview them [TS]

00:38:55   about it and it's a pretty but now thing [TS]

00:38:58   when you think about it but they make [TS]

00:39:00   them very well and I've become hugely [TS]

00:39:02   hugely popular now [TS]

00:39:05   I think it would it seems to be the case [TS]

00:39:07   that to me I'm editorializing a bit now [TS]

00:39:11   that these people are feeling a bit [TS]

00:39:14   proprietorial about this format and [TS]

00:39:18   although they most certainly did not [TS]

00:39:20   invent the idea of people reacting to [TS]

00:39:22   things or filming people to react to [TS]

00:39:23   things i think because they had made it [TS]

00:39:26   quite popular they felt a degree of [TS]

00:39:29   ownership over and they announce to the [TS]

00:39:31   world that they were going to license to [TS]

00:39:33   people the ability to make react videos [TS]

00:39:37   so you could make a video just like [TS]

00:39:39   theirs and they will take some of your [TS]

00:39:41   money and they will help you make that [TS]

00:39:42   make these videos and once they announce [TS]

00:39:45   this which seen your kind of odd to a [TS]

00:39:47   lot of people people started scratching [TS]

00:39:50   a little bit below the surface and it [TS]

00:39:52   and it was realized that the fine [TS]

00:39:55   brothers had in fact trademarked the [TS]

00:39:57   names of some of their series and they [TS]

00:39:59   had also trade match just the word react [TS]

00:40:02   in this in this context and it seemed to [TS]

00:40:06   be the case that they were now going to [TS]

00:40:08   attempt to own the whole genre of [TS]

00:40:11   reaction videos and infect other people [TS]

00:40:13   started saying they've taken down all my [TS]

00:40:15   reaction videos and there and there was [TS]

00:40:17   an active campaign by someone associated [TS]

00:40:19   with them to take down videos that were [TS]

00:40:22   about reactions and at this point the [TS]

00:40:25   internet turned on them [TS]

00:40:28   I mean you say it was a huge big thing [TS]

00:40:30   it was certainly big on red and in [TS]

00:40:31   certain spheres and it certainly [TS]

00:40:33   affected them they sort of did a half [TS]

00:40:36   climb down and sort of apologized and [TS]

00:40:39   made this apology [TS]

00:40:40   Mia culpa video which was not very [TS]

00:40:42   successful didn't go down well and [TS]

00:40:44   wasn't good it wasn't good and that made [TS]

00:40:48   things much much worse for them and then [TS]

00:40:51   a couple of days later they did a [TS]

00:40:52   complete climb down as they were [TS]

00:40:54   hemorrhaging subscribers and everyone [TS]

00:40:56   was even some of their sort of friends [TS]

00:40:58   were saying they haven't done very well [TS]

00:41:00   here they did a complete climb down and [TS]

00:41:02   said we're sorry we're we're releasing [TS]

00:41:05   all our trademarks on the word react [TS]

00:41:07   we're releasing all their trademarks [TS]

00:41:09   even on the ones that we do we're ending [TS]

00:41:12   this whole idea of Licensing videos and [TS]

00:41:14   they went back into [TS]

00:41:15   shell completely beaten to death by the [TS]

00:41:19   internet now one of the people who beat [TS]

00:41:24   them with a stick was a good friend [TS]

00:41:27   cgpgrey what do you mean I don't know [TS]

00:41:29   what you're talking about pretty gray [TS]

00:41:32   was like obviously people were writing [TS]

00:41:34   blogs and making videos and really [TS]

00:41:36   getting stuck into these guys and gray [TS]

00:41:39   made a sort of a satirical Jackie video [TS]

00:41:42   that I'm sure most of you have seen [TS]

00:41:43   where he pretended that he was going to [TS]

00:41:46   trademark stick figures which he uses in [TS]

00:41:50   his videos and anyone else we ever [TS]

00:41:51   wanted to use it figures would have to [TS]

00:41:53   license from him and it was a rather [TS]

00:41:55   rather sarcastic video and it was done [TS]

00:41:58   in a away that kind of the parodied and [TS]

00:42:02   sat I'd they the original things that [TS]

00:42:06   the fine brothers were doing so great [TS]

00:42:07   was one of the people in in the the mob [TS]

00:42:11   that publicly shamed the fine brothers [TS]

00:42:14   in-app away from their position it has [TS]

00:42:17   been very interesting i have been [TS]

00:42:18   talking to a lot of people in the [TS]

00:42:20   business about this like because the the [TS]

00:42:24   phrase that I keep using to describe [TS]

00:42:27   what happens to everyone I talk to about [TS]

00:42:29   this is perfect storm this thing [TS]

00:42:33   exploded into a big conversation because [TS]

00:42:36   it just like it hit all of the like the [TS]

00:42:39   trigger points that it possibly could to [TS]

00:42:41   make this explode into a big thing [TS]

00:42:43   what are some of us well what one of [TS]

00:42:45   those is even in your own description i [TS]

00:42:47   think the thing that is is very tricky [TS]

00:42:50   about this is in the in the first video [TS]

00:42:52   that the fine brothers made you know I [TS]

00:42:56   came to this very late i saw both videos [TS]

00:42:58   at the same time because I i was just [TS]

00:43:00   completing my own business [TS]

00:43:01   no not on the internet very much and [TS]

00:43:03   just happened to accidentally come [TS]

00:43:05   across this thing but in the first video [TS]

00:43:07   that they made they explained what they [TS]

00:43:10   were doing kind of poorly because i [TS]

00:43:14   watch that video and I thought wow ok [TS]

00:43:15   one this is horribly made I don't think [TS]

00:43:18   it's a very good video but as someone [TS]

00:43:22   who works in the field of intellectual [TS]

00:43:24   property right like my business is built [TS]

00:43:26   on intellectual property i watch the [TS]

00:43:27   thing i thought okay [TS]

00:43:28   that they're doing they want to do [TS]

00:43:30   licensing deals right this is this is [TS]

00:43:32   what they want to do they want to [TS]

00:43:34   license the fine brothers name or they [TS]

00:43:37   want to license the particular assets [TS]

00:43:40   they used to make their videos to other [TS]

00:43:42   people to use to create you know [TS]

00:43:44   sub-channels and then they themselves [TS]

00:43:45   using example like you know america's [TS]

00:43:48   got talent and britain's got talent [TS]

00:43:49   right this is a common thing in the [TS]

00:43:51   entertainment industry to do [TS]

00:43:52   yeah yes it's not it's not unremarkable [TS]

00:43:54   not it would be it would be certainly a [TS]

00:43:57   new thing to do it on youtube and just [TS]

00:43:59   have anyone in their bedroom started to [TS]

00:44:02   license video Chandra's but someone's [TS]

00:44:03   got to do it first I guess ya doing it [TS]

00:44:05   on YouTube is it is a slightly different [TS]

00:44:07   thing but it is it is by no means like [TS]

00:44:09   some kind of outrageous thing to do [TS]

00:44:12   right it's exactly the kind of thing [TS]

00:44:14   that a media company would do if they [TS]

00:44:16   have a successful property because [TS]

00:44:17   that's what media companies do [TS]

00:44:19   yeah and so is not watching I'm like [TS]

00:44:22   okay well you know what this is [TS]

00:44:24   whatever about this but the but the [TS]

00:44:26   problem that happened was that as the [TS]

00:44:29   video went on they were talking about [TS]

00:44:32   other people like using their format or [TS]

00:44:36   like making similar videos to them and [TS]

00:44:39   ask your audience to kind of boycott [TS]

00:44:41   people who are infringing on their [TS]

00:44:43   intellectual property rights and that's [TS]

00:44:45   to me wear it [TS]

00:44:46   it flipped over into this perfect storm [TS]

00:44:48   because then there is this like [TS]

00:44:49   misunderstanding that the fine brothers [TS]

00:44:52   are claiming ownership of all kinds of [TS]

00:44:56   react videos which I don't think was [TS]

00:44:59   their intention in the original video [TS]

00:45:00   but it's like man if you guys make a [TS]

00:45:03   video and you put it out to 14 million [TS]

00:45:06   subscribers the vast majority of of your [TS]

00:45:09   viewers they don't have a clear [TS]

00:45:11   understanding of the difference between [TS]

00:45:12   copyright trademark and licensing and [TS]

00:45:16   branding deals that you can't expect [TS]

00:45:18   them to understand the distinction of [TS]

00:45:21   these things because they're really [TS]

00:45:22   complicated things and even as someone [TS]

00:45:25   who works in this field like you have to [TS]

00:45:26   think about it sometimes like okay what [TS]

00:45:28   are the difference between these [TS]

00:45:28   different things and so I think like [TS]

00:45:30   that was one of the things that made it [TS]

00:45:32   like a perfect storm is because [TS]

00:45:35   tons of people make react videos because [TS]

00:45:38   frankly they're very easy to make and so [TS]

00:45:41   then this video ends up kind of [TS]

00:45:43   unintentionally sounding like the fine [TS]

00:45:45   brothers are going to own all reaction [TS]

00:45:48   videos and I just I don't think that was [TS]

00:45:51   that their intention from the first [TS]

00:45:52   video but it sure is held sounded like [TS]

00:45:55   it i disagree with the i disagree with [TS]

00:45:58   you bro [TS]

00:45:58   okay was it i don't know i think it was [TS]

00:46:00   their intention they trademark the word [TS]

00:46:02   react on its own [TS]

00:46:04   yeah they did they didn't say that at [TS]

00:46:05   the time yeah yeah but they had done and [TS]

00:46:09   let me tell you something else who let [TS]

00:46:12   me take you back in time to 8 pro 2014 [TS]

00:46:17   ok i made a video no reaction video [TS]

00:46:20   which was basically it was really a [TS]

00:46:23   parody of reaction videos you know you [TS]

00:46:26   know how i make those parodies of [TS]

00:46:27   calculator and box comic and boxing [TS]

00:46:30   paradise where people i can calculate [TS]

00:46:31   the boxes i do like my comment on the [TS]

00:46:34   silliness of unboxing videos i made a [TS]

00:46:36   reaction video the same thing when I got [TS]

00:46:38   a bunch of the professors in my videos [TS]

00:46:41   to play the game 2048 I'm gonna like [TS]

00:46:45   this one where that one that was the [TS]

00:46:46   very sight guys to go don't go start [TS]

00:46:48   sending me messages about how threes [TS]

00:46:50   better i'm not our users but was [TS]

00:46:52   developed as a three way better if I [TS]

00:46:54   know if we will eventually three threes [TS]

00:46:56   is the one that I'd like but 2048x2048 [TS]

00:46:59   was the zeitgeist you think that week [TS]

00:47:01   and that's what we did I know that one [TS]

00:47:02   of the mindshare that one is the [TS]

00:47:04   mindshare anyway so i made that I made [TS]

00:47:07   that video i received an email from the [TS]

00:47:11   fine brothers now I i I'm not one for [TS]

00:47:15   sharing emails that are sent to me by [TS]

00:47:16   people because I just think that [TS]

00:47:18   correspondence between people but I this [TS]

00:47:20   does not feel like a very personal email [TS]

00:47:22   to me they didn't know who I was they [TS]

00:47:23   didn't use my name [TS]

00:47:25   even so it was clearly a it was clearly [TS]

00:47:28   quite a generic email and internet they [TS]

00:47:32   were pretty much warning me off starting [TS]

00:47:35   a professor's reactor series in 2014 [TS]

00:47:38   that they were really they were really [TS]

00:47:41   polite and nice and part of it said we [TS]

00:47:43   saw your video we thought it was we [TS]

00:47:45   thought it was really cool you know [TS]

00:47:47   we assume this was a one-off but are [TS]

00:47:49   hoping the plan isn't to start doing [TS]

00:47:50   things like this all the time calling [TS]

00:47:53   things blank react to and playing games [TS]

00:47:56   or watching videos like our company does [TS]

00:47:58   then held at and obviously already [TS]

00:48:02   thinking about this licensing thing [TS]

00:48:04   because they then talk about maybe [TS]

00:48:07   there's a way we could work on something [TS]

00:48:08   like this together but it would be [TS]

00:48:10   difficult with the distance but we could [TS]

00:48:12   maybe start talking about it but [TS]

00:48:14   everything I start talking about but in [TS]

00:48:16   the spirit of the YouTube community [TS]

00:48:18   we're hoping that this is just a one-off [TS]

00:48:20   and you're not planning to do more of it [TS]

00:48:23   so this was this was two years before I [TS]

00:48:25   made one reaction video and I was [TS]

00:48:28   basically been told don't do you [TS]

00:48:30   shouldn't do it again it would be [TS]

00:48:32   against the spirit of YouTube we hope [TS]

00:48:34   you're not planning to make more of them [TS]

00:48:35   like our company our company does so i [TS]

00:48:40   think i think that was thinking about [TS]

00:48:42   this then you know [TS]

00:48:45   yeah I mean yeah that that that doesn't [TS]

00:48:48   that doesn't look good [TS]

00:48:50   I but i have no I don't know these guys [TS]

00:48:53   by the way and I think you know [TS]

00:48:54   obviously make good videos I saw them [TS]

00:48:55   gave a talk once at VidCon but you know [TS]

00:48:58   I have no yeah yeah we should be sure [TS]

00:49:01   that it's minutes it's a funny position [TS]

00:49:02   to be in because as well i don't i don't [TS]

00:49:04   know the fine brothers and I don't watch [TS]

00:49:06   their videos but it's a thing like the [TS]

00:49:08   fine brothers know lots of people [TS]

00:49:09   because they have a whole channel that's [TS]

00:49:11   like whatever the whole series of these [TS]

00:49:13   youtubers react yeah they're very very [TS]

00:49:14   well-connected in the YouTube community [TS]

00:49:16   yeah they're very well-connected people [TS]

00:49:18   but i do not know them [TS]

00:49:20   I'm not familiar with their work yeah [TS]

00:49:22   very much but yeah I guess part of the [TS]

00:49:27   the stories that were going around at [TS]

00:49:28   the time and I can't say I like I didn't [TS]

00:49:30   go in and verify them but apparently [TS]

00:49:32   they had some spat with like TV channels [TS]

00:49:35   that we're doing people reacting to [TS]

00:49:37   stuff like I think they they clearly had [TS]

00:49:40   some sense of propriety over the idea of [TS]

00:49:43   react channels that were react video [TS]

00:49:46   that was [TS]

00:49:47   out of scope with reality [TS]

00:49:51   yeah that that's what happened i think [TS]

00:49:52   that they made something very good and [TS]

00:49:54   very successful and and continue to be [TS]

00:49:57   successful and I think they suddenly [TS]

00:50:00   thought I think I got it I got it I got [TS]

00:50:02   a bit carried away with how much it was [TS]

00:50:05   theirs i think obviously forgot that it [TS]

00:50:07   was not a new thing [TS]

00:50:09   yeah i mean ok so like to go into the [TS]

00:50:13   details of this for a second though when [TS]

00:50:14   I was watching this thing they're [TS]

00:50:15   talking about licensing and Trademark so [TS]

00:50:17   this thing comes up every once in a [TS]

00:50:20   while where you hear that the company is [TS]

00:50:21   trying to trademark a word this time it [TS]

00:50:24   happens to be the fine brothers and [TS]

00:50:25   react but this kind of thing comes up on [TS]

00:50:28   the internet every once in a while when [TS]

00:50:29   when companies do this [TS]

00:50:31   sony try to trade my let's play tonight [TS]

00:50:33   yeah I think they did so I mean one of [TS]

00:50:36   the things with with trademarks that [TS]

00:50:38   people need to understand is the [TS]

00:50:40   trademarks are relatively narrow and of [TS]

00:50:43   the three kinds of intellectual property [TS]

00:50:44   copyrights patents and trademarks I [TS]

00:50:47   think that trademarks are the least [TS]

00:50:49   problematic of any of them because the [TS]

00:50:52   idea of trademark is it supposed to be [TS]

00:50:54   you you as a consumer by seeing these [TS]

00:50:58   words in this circumstance know that [TS]

00:51:01   this company is the one behind it [TS]

00:51:04   this is that this is the whole idea like [TS]

00:51:06   coca-cola right like you can make soda [TS]

00:51:08   but you can't call it coca-cola because [TS]

00:51:10   that is a trademark to let you know that [TS]

00:51:13   the coca-cola company has made this [TS]

00:51:15   thing like they have the purpose of [TS]

00:51:17   trademarks and when people apply for [TS]

00:51:20   trademarks you have to specify where and [TS]

00:51:24   how those trademarks are going to be [TS]

00:51:26   used and the thing is funny about this [TS]

00:51:28   whole fine brothers thing this is like [TS]

00:51:29   it blew up over trademarks but like I [TS]

00:51:32   have the trademark and I that very [TS]

00:51:34   morning this fine brothers thing [TS]

00:51:36   occurred i had actually used a trademark [TS]

00:51:38   I hadn't forced to trademark to gain [TS]

00:51:40   control of like a URL squatter basically [TS]

00:51:43   like this is this is what trademarks are [TS]

00:51:45   42 like you can't have someone represent [TS]

00:51:48   themselves as you or your company if you [TS]

00:51:51   have a trademark like this is the [TS]

00:51:53   presumably your trademark is your name [TS]

00:51:55   yeah that's that super weird thing right [TS]

00:51:57   like I have trained like cgpgrey just [TS]

00:52:00   this [TS]

00:52:00   very funny thing but yeah it would end [TS]

00:52:03   and that's what i was using it's like [TS]

00:52:04   someone else was was using cgpgrey [TS]

00:52:07   that's like okay that's nobody else's [TS]

00:52:09   name like I have trademark this thing [TS]

00:52:12   yeah represent yourself on the internet [TS]

00:52:13   in this way so when people talk about [TS]

00:52:19   like they were trying to trademark the [TS]

00:52:21   word react [TS]

00:52:22   I would be shocked if that trademark was [TS]

00:52:25   actually granted and even if it was [TS]

00:52:27   granted if it was enforceable because [TS]

00:52:30   it's just it's too broad it's too [TS]

00:52:32   generic and like there's no way they [TS]

00:52:34   were gonna be able to take down [TS]

00:52:36   everybody's videos that were using the [TS]

00:52:38   word we had apparently they were great [TS]

00:52:39   power because obviously the truck onian [TS]

00:52:41   way that the YouTube system works and [TS]

00:52:44   YouTube's fear of running into legal [TS]

00:52:46   problems is their kind of error on the [TS]

00:52:48   side of caution and if someone says RI [TS]

00:52:51   and the trademark on that word they kind [TS]

00:52:53   of take down first and ask questions [TS]

00:52:55   later and a lot of react stuff [TS]

00:52:57   apparently i don't know they didn't they [TS]

00:52:59   didn't take down my video two years ago [TS]

00:53:01   by the way they made no attempt as far [TS]

00:53:03   as I know they made no attempt to take [TS]

00:53:05   it down so I'm not saying they tried to [TS]

00:53:07   take mine down but a lot of other people [TS]

00:53:08   internet more recently have been saying [TS]

00:53:12   they have had problems with it i don't [TS]

00:53:13   know if it's true but a lot of people [TS]

00:53:15   were saying and and they've acknowledged [TS]

00:53:18   it because they say they have said all [TS]

00:53:20   we're trying to undo those now they said [TS]

00:53:22   we had nothing to do with i think they [TS]

00:53:24   said it was there there multi-channel [TS]

00:53:25   network that did on their behalf and [TS]

00:53:27   they said they were trying to undo that [TS]

00:53:29   mess now but so it does seem that it was [TS]

00:53:32   happening so that means that this is [TS]

00:53:35   again what why I think partly this blow [TS]

00:53:37   up into this this big thing is because [TS]

00:53:38   there's a lot of frustrations that [TS]

00:53:39   people have with the whole way that [TS]

00:53:41   YouTube deals with intellectual property [TS]

00:53:43   and and enforcement and yes there is a [TS]

00:53:45   bit of a like takedown first ask [TS]

00:53:47   questions later a policy that YouTube [TS]

00:53:50   has but but one of the things one of the [TS]

00:53:53   things that I was was just astounded by [TS]

00:53:57   is that that [TS]

00:53:59   Hank green wrote an article which was [TS]

00:54:01   talking about explaining that the the [TS]

00:54:03   whole controversy which you put it on [TS]

00:54:04   medium which are linked to but there's [TS]

00:54:06   one line in there which was astounding [TS]

00:54:08   to me where he said that YouTube [TS]

00:54:09   apparently gives some creators some of [TS]

00:54:14   the big creators the power to on their [TS]

00:54:17   own without oversight take down other [TS]

00:54:19   people's videos which is amazing to me [TS]

00:54:23   and I think maybe that's what's [TS]

00:54:25   happening work or that's what had [TS]

00:54:26   happened with some of these people [TS]

00:54:27   saying like the fine brothers were able [TS]

00:54:29   to just take down my video is that like [TS]

00:54:30   the fine brothers it sounds from this [TS]

00:54:32   were one of those people who have the [TS]

00:54:34   ability to just like press a button and [TS]

00:54:36   nuke someone's video off of off of the [TS]

00:54:39   YouTube platform and I just I cannot [TS]

00:54:42   believe that this is this is part of [TS]

00:54:44   YouTube system and it just it it's like [TS]

00:54:47   fuel on the fire so like I'm not sure if [TS]

00:54:51   they were you know properly enforcing [TS]

00:54:52   trademarks or what but it seems like [TS]

00:54:53   they were able to take down videos that [TS]

00:54:55   they thought and they felt were just too [TS]

00:54:57   close to what they were doing and this [TS]

00:54:59   is just bad it's really bad do I don't [TS]

00:55:03   want to come to your I don't want to [TS]

00:55:05   come to your video yet right I want to [TS]

00:55:07   ask you separately about your video that [TS]

00:55:08   you made on this issue in a couple of [TS]

00:55:10   minutes but the funny thing is the way [TS]

00:55:13   we've been discussing it so far [TS]

00:55:15   you almost sound more sympathetic to [TS]

00:55:16   them then than i do and i actually do [TS]

00:55:20   feel a little bit sympathetic to worry [TS]

00:55:21   about that [TS]

00:55:22   so it's kind of this conversation has [TS]

00:55:23   gone differently to what i expected [TS]

00:55:25   because i have I actually i feel i feel [TS]

00:55:28   a bit sorry for them in some ways but [TS]

00:55:30   your talk you you're talking like you [TS]

00:55:33   think they had pure motives and it just [TS]

00:55:35   came out wrong and I actually don't [TS]

00:55:37   believe that I think they are getting a [TS]

00:55:39   bit greedy and they got caught with [TS]

00:55:41   their fingers in the cookie jar [TS]

00:55:43   they got disproportionately slapped [TS]

00:55:45   around because of it we can discuss [TS]

00:55:48   whether it was disproportionately minute [TS]

00:55:50   they certainly got slapped around very [TS]

00:55:51   hard because of it and and they climbed [TS]

00:55:55   down from this position either because [TS]

00:55:57   they changed their mind or it was gonna [TS]

00:55:59   it was starting to have serious business [TS]

00:56:02   implications for them I don't know which [TS]

00:56:04   but they certainly climbed down and you [TS]

00:56:07   seem to be saying are they just didn't [TS]

00:56:09   communicate very clearly and therefore [TS]

00:56:11   they got in trouble [TS]

00:56:12   I think they were doing a bit of smoke [TS]

00:56:15   and mirrors and making it sound like a [TS]

00:56:17   great opportunity for everyone when [TS]

00:56:19   really they were trying to take [TS]

00:56:20   ownership of something that I'm not [TS]

00:56:21   entirely convinced they had the right to [TS]

00:56:25   take ownership of and they were and they [TS]

00:56:26   were getting dollar signs in their eyes [TS]

00:56:28   yeah i think there is there's no [TS]

00:56:30   argument about them [TS]

00:56:32   owning the idea of reaction videos like [TS]

00:56:34   this is clear prior art there's there's [TS]

00:56:37   no there's no universe in which they own [TS]

00:56:39   the idea of reaction videos justjust [TS]

00:56:41   without up without it [TS]

00:56:42   yeah without a doubt the question is of [TS]

00:56:45   this whole idea of like licensing what [TS]

00:56:47   they do in particular like that you [TS]

00:56:49   think that's a very different question [TS]

00:56:51   and you're great i was clearly trying to [TS]

00:56:54   setup this licensing program but i think [TS]

00:56:56   it was running in parallel with a more [TS]

00:56:59   concerted campaign to stop other people [TS]

00:57:01   making reaction videos i think that was [TS]

00:57:03   happening in parallel they weren't [TS]

00:57:05   talking about that so much because [TS]

00:57:06   that's not such a nice thing to talk [TS]

00:57:08   about in a positive let's do it together [TS]

00:57:10   video but that was clearly happening at [TS]

00:57:12   the exact same time these two things [TS]

00:57:14   were happening in concert [TS]

00:57:15   yeah maybe I guess that this is this is [TS]

00:57:19   the exact conversation that I've been [TS]

00:57:20   having with with many people with like [TS]

00:57:22   why are you more angry about this like [TS]

00:57:24   aren't you the guy made some videos like [TS]

00:57:26   super angry about this and and I do feel [TS]

00:57:28   like my opinion on this is largely like [TS]

00:57:30   that their trademarks would have been [TS]

00:57:32   just unenforceable anyway like you like [TS]

00:57:34   what it like the the worst-case scenario [TS]

00:57:36   here is that they would have gotten some [TS]

00:57:38   trademark but it would never have held [TS]

00:57:39   up you know the idea of trademarking the [TS]

00:57:41   word react just just like every other [TS]

00:57:45   company that tries to trademark a single [TS]

00:57:47   word [TS]

00:57:47   it just never holds up or it never gets [TS]

00:57:49   accepted because it's just too broad [TS]

00:57:52   it's too is not specific enough right [TS]

00:57:55   it's not like you're trademarking [TS]

00:57:56   mountain dew at when you are selling [TS]

00:58:00   sodas right it's just it's just not [TS]

00:58:02   specific enough so that's why I don't [TS]

00:58:03   like what it's not the trademark but [TS]

00:58:05   it's it's more water it's more the [TS]

00:58:07   intent at signals it's more the intent [TS]

00:58:10   that we're getting you know make it was [TS]

00:58:12   there were they were trying to create an [TS]

00:58:15   arsenal of weapons that would help them [TS]

00:58:18   stop other people may create videos and [TS]

00:58:20   a trademark [TS]

00:58:22   is one of the arrows in your quiver and [TS]

00:58:26   whether or not that arrow was successful [TS]

00:58:28   or got it got taken out of the queen of [TS]

00:58:30   it doesn't matter it shows what they [TS]

00:58:31   were doing another thing that shows what [TS]

00:58:33   they're doing with his takedowns another [TS]

00:58:35   thing that shows what they were doing is [TS]

00:58:37   maybe emails like the one I alluded to [TS]

00:58:39   before there were you know this was [TS]

00:58:42   clearly happening they clearly thought [TS]

00:58:44   it was their thing and other people [TS]

00:58:46   shouldn't be doing it so whether or not [TS]

00:58:48   the the trademark is a is a red herring [TS]

00:58:52   I admit that you know you're worried [TS]

00:58:54   about whether the trademark was [TS]

00:58:55   enforceable okay well they could be [TS]

00:58:56   court cases and whatever but there was a [TS]

00:58:58   whole other thing going on that was not [TS]

00:59:00   being talked about almost being hidden [TS]

00:59:03   by this whole licensing thing they [TS]

00:59:06   clearly felt a ridiculous ownership over [TS]

00:59:09   the idea of people reacting to stuff and [TS]

00:59:12   I don't like I just I just found it here [TS]

00:59:13   which is that the thing where they were [TS]

00:59:17   criticizing the ellen degeneres show [TS]

00:59:19   because they Ellen DeGeneres did it's [TS]

00:59:21   apparently some bit where she was [TS]

00:59:22   showing kids old technology [TS]

00:59:24   yeah and-and-and the quote here from the [TS]

00:59:27   fine brothers his wow the ellen show did [TS]

00:59:30   the kids reacting to old technology [TS]

00:59:32   didn't mention us that didn't check with [TS]

00:59:34   us not cool [TS]

00:59:35   you need to go to their Facebook and [TS]

00:59:37   blast the kids react links and it's like [TS]

00:59:41   okay well there there's them trying to [TS]

00:59:43   rally up an angry mob against the ellen [TS]

00:59:45   degeneres show for having people look at [TS]

00:59:49   things and make comments about them [TS]

00:59:51   yeah and to me that is like okay you are [TS]

00:59:54   just out of touch with what you have [TS]

00:59:56   made and its importance in the world and [TS]

00:59:59   your own [TS]

00:59:59   your own [TS]

01:00:00   ship of it and like that's the thing [TS]

01:00:03   that for me was was the really galling [TS]

01:00:05   part about it because like I totally [TS]

01:00:07   agree with you that the trademark in [TS]

01:00:08   some way doesn't matter i think the idea [TS]

01:00:11   of doing a licensing deal like whatever [TS]

01:00:14   it's just boring business who cares it's [TS]

01:00:15   a totally standard thing but to me the [TS]

01:00:19   the galling things like the way they [TS]

01:00:21   presented themselves was that was the [TS]

01:00:26   thing that just really set me on edge [TS]

01:00:28   like I cannot believe you guys have made [TS]

01:00:30   this video about how amazingly important [TS]

01:00:33   you react videos are and and how you [TS]

01:00:36   want everybody to to join in on this [TS]

01:00:38   thing didn't I say change the world [TS]

01:00:40   i downloaded the video as soon as i saw [TS]

01:00:42   it because i thought surely they're [TS]

01:00:43   gonna take this video down and I want to [TS]

01:00:45   make sure I've got up here because I [TS]

01:00:48   thought there's no way this video is [TS]

01:00:49   gonna last another hour of me in today [TS]

01:00:51   but I'm sure every man that dog did that [TS]

01:00:53   take [TS]

01:00:54   at this point in the podcast I'm going [TS]

01:00:57   to edit in some of this video because [TS]

01:01:00   you just you have to hear this people it [TS]

01:01:03   is on believable [TS]

01:01:05   I really think you should find some of [TS]

01:01:07   the many really uploads on video to see [TS]

01:01:09   it like seeing it is a whole other thing [TS]

01:01:11   because it's just strangely put together [TS]

01:01:13   but for those listening i'm just going [TS]

01:01:15   to put in a couple of Clips so you can [TS]

01:01:17   hear we're talking about [TS]

01:01:18   hello everyone our company has grown so [TS]

01:01:20   much over the years and we are so [TS]

01:01:21   grateful to have experienced this with [TS]

01:01:23   all of you who've been with us for years [TS]

01:01:24   as well as new people to join the fine [TS]

01:01:26   family everyday we're now announcing [TS]

01:01:28   this big thing that will bring us closer [TS]

01:01:30   than ever before [TS]

01:01:31   by creating a new way for us to create [TS]

01:01:33   content together this is not only a huge [TS]

01:01:36   step for our company but for the entire [TS]

01:01:37   global media industry ever since react [TS]

01:01:40   first debuted over five years ago we saw [TS]

01:01:42   the impact of the series we strive with [TS]

01:01:44   react to be making episodes will not [TS]

01:01:46   just be interesting and entertaining now [TS]

01:01:48   but live on forever as a time capsule [TS]

01:01:51   even a hundred years from now that [TS]

01:01:53   people can look back with various [TS]

01:01:54   generations were saying about culture [TS]

01:01:56   and the issues of our time we are [TS]

01:01:57   excited to announce react world with the [TS]

01:01:59   first-of-its-kind program that allows [TS]

01:02:01   people and companies to license all [TS]

01:02:02   popular shows online so that anyone even [TS]

01:02:05   you watching right now you can create [TS]

01:02:07   your own versions in a fully legal way [TS]

01:02:09   that a part of a new and exciting [TS]

01:02:10   the community and digital media has [TS]

01:02:12   become more corporate the spirit wanted [TS]

01:02:14   to do things differently than [TS]

01:02:15   traditional Hollywood started to [TS]

01:02:16   dissipate but our company has never lost [TS]

01:02:18   that spirit by licensing are formats and [TS]

01:02:20   trademarks everyone will know that [TS]

01:02:22   you're doing this legally with our [TS]

01:02:23   company's guidance we are so motivated [TS]

01:02:25   for this to know that our formats can [TS]

01:02:27   inspire millions of people and open it [TS]

01:02:29   up for all of you to have the chance to [TS]

01:02:30   do the same as exciting as anything we [TS]

01:02:32   have ever done before and we look [TS]

01:02:33   forward to the time when we can look [TS]

01:02:35   back to this moment to this video with [TS]

01:02:37   all of you knowing that this was when we [TS]

01:02:39   all stood together change the way things [TS]

01:02:41   were done and created this [TS]

01:02:42   first-of-its-kind global community we [TS]

01:02:44   can't wait to work with so many of you [TS]

01:02:46   and change the world together the hair [TS]

01:02:49   lines of like we are going to make this [TS]

01:02:52   a global phenomenon with all of you [TS]

01:02:55   there's the part where they talk about [TS]

01:02:56   how react videos are going to be looked [TS]

01:02:59   back upon in a hundred years as an [TS]

01:03:01   amazing time capsule of like current day [TS]

01:03:03   events and yes we do talk about changing [TS]

01:03:06   the world together it's it's it's [TS]

01:03:10   amazing it's amazing because okay so [TS]

01:03:14   listen I like something i just want to [TS]

01:03:15   make clear before we continue to talk [TS]

01:03:17   about this react videos when you use [TS]

01:03:20   that phrase it covers a wide variety of [TS]

01:03:21   things some of which I think are are [TS]

01:03:24   just like the worst lowest content on [TS]

01:03:26   YouTube and some of which are just like [TS]

01:03:27   barely acceptable content but people [TS]

01:03:30   like react videos I have no problem with [TS]

01:03:32   that they're not for me but I don't care [TS]

01:03:34   if like if people like you think that's [TS]

01:03:36   totally fine right you can't argue [TS]

01:03:37   against people liking it but there's no [TS]

01:03:40   doubt that this is just the minimum [TS]

01:03:43   amount of effort that you can possibly [TS]

01:03:45   put in to create content because you you [TS]

01:03:48   take somebody else's thing and you film [TS]

01:03:51   some people reacting to it just [TS]

01:03:54   occasionally making comments about [TS]

01:03:55   you're not creating the emotion someone [TS]

01:03:57   else's hard work is creating the emotion [TS]

01:03:59   of the video [TS]

01:04:00   exactly i think other person is doing [TS]

01:04:03   the heavy lifting here and then you are [TS]

01:04:06   just filming reactions you're not like [TS]

01:04:09   you're not lighting the fire you're just [TS]

01:04:10   warming your hands up with it if you're [TS]

01:04:12   warming your hands up with someone [TS]

01:04:13   else's fire and I think this is another [TS]

01:04:15   element of like the perfect storm miss [TS]

01:04:17   of this because [TS]

01:04:19   I don't know for a fact i have heard [TS]

01:04:22   secondhand that the fine brothers do get [TS]

01:04:24   permission for all of the videos that [TS]

01:04:26   they react to [TS]

01:04:27   I don't know if that's true let's just [TS]

01:04:28   assume that it is for this conversation [TS]

01:04:30   but there are plenty of react channels [TS]

01:04:34   that just they just they just copyright [TS]

01:04:37   infringement channels they take other [TS]

01:04:38   popular videos and they filmed [TS]

01:04:40   themselves as a person looking at their [TS]

01:04:42   computer screen and reacting to the [TS]

01:04:44   thing that's on screen but then they'll [TS]

01:04:46   put whatever it is in the corner so you [TS]

01:04:48   can just watch it there [TS]

01:04:49   that's a transformative work right it's [TS]

01:04:51   transformative yeah it's not even [TS]

01:04:52   remotely transformative and I think like [TS]

01:04:55   that's another reason why this really [TS]

01:04:56   blew up as a thing because on youtube [TS]

01:04:58   like those contract channels like people [TS]

01:05:01   just hate it because it's you just [TS]

01:05:03   taking someone else's work and you're [TS]

01:05:05   making money off of it and you're giving [TS]

01:05:06   like no credit to the original person [TS]

01:05:09   the worst thing is many of those [TS]

01:05:10   channels will then sanctimoniously say [TS]

01:05:12   like oh we're doing this to promote the [TS]

01:05:14   other channels like snow yeah yeah its [TS]

01:05:17   exposure it's like if it was I'd be [TS]

01:05:19   happy to receive it but I don't like [TS]

01:05:20   please don't react to my videos where [TS]

01:05:22   it's just your face looking at the [TS]

01:05:24   screen saying nothing sometimes as my [TS]

01:05:27   actual video plays like that stuff isn't [TS]

01:05:28   fury ating yeah right but i think that [TS]

01:05:32   like that's why the fine brothers think [TS]

01:05:34   blow-up is like okay there's plenty of [TS]

01:05:35   people out there who just can't stand [TS]

01:05:38   react channels but then on top of it to [TS]

01:05:40   to make this video where you're talking [TS]

01:05:42   about how like react channels could [TS]

01:05:44   change the world together and like [TS]

01:05:46   you're doing this amazing culturally [TS]

01:05:48   important thing i mean when i watch the [TS]

01:05:51   video just like outcome on off Matt [TS]

01:05:54   right like you just you're just filming [TS]

01:05:56   someone reacting to a thing that you [TS]

01:05:59   didn't make it I was not familiar with [TS]

01:06:02   the fine brothers before this except [TS]

01:06:03   only in like the dimmest way of like a [TS]

01:06:05   right fine brothers have heard their [TS]

01:06:06   name but I when I watched some of the [TS]

01:06:08   reaction videos and it's like oh yeah [TS]

01:06:10   this is exactly what I would have [TS]

01:06:11   expected just like the easiest type of [TS]

01:06:15   content to create in the world and again [TS]

01:06:18   there's there's nothing wrong with [TS]

01:06:19   things being easy right the world [TS]

01:06:21   doesn't doesn't reward people in [TS]

01:06:22   proportion to how hard they work nor [TS]

01:06:24   should it but it's it's that contrast [TS]

01:06:28   like you just making this super easy [TS]

01:06:30   thing and you're also telling people [TS]

01:06:31   have super important [TS]

01:06:32   it is like that that's one of the like [TS]

01:06:34   triggers in this perfect storm I like [TS]

01:06:36   why people got so riled up about these [TS]

01:06:39   videos so can I be fun to your video for [TS]

01:06:42   a bit ok alright let me tell people how [TS]

01:06:45   your video and folded from my end [TS]

01:06:46   because I guess something a bit [TS]

01:06:48   different then you can tell me your end [TS]

01:06:50   I coincidentally started communicating [TS]

01:06:53   with you via text messages [TS]

01:06:56   not long after you first heard about [TS]

01:06:58   this and so this right and because i had [TS]

01:07:01   meant to bring it up with you but I [TS]

01:07:02   thought you'd probably be off in one of [TS]

01:07:03   your bubbles and didn't want to know [TS]

01:07:05   about it yet [TS]

01:07:06   and then you message me I think of [TS]

01:07:08   something about it and I said oh that's [TS]

01:07:09   funny I didn't want to talk to you about [TS]

01:07:10   it and you were not acting like outraged [TS]

01:07:16   or really really upset but you were more [TS]

01:07:18   engaged than usual I could I could tell [TS]

01:07:20   you thought it was really interesting [TS]

01:07:21   and with you and I was joking was [TS]

01:07:24   sending each other a few jokes and I [TS]

01:07:26   actually said hi actually you already [TS]

01:07:28   thought of it obviously who as we soon [TS]

01:07:30   find out [TS]

01:07:31   but I even sent you a joke side haha you [TS]

01:07:33   know you could try it you could trade [TS]

01:07:35   mark stick figures right yeah but you [TS]

01:07:37   know we were making a few jokes about it [TS]

01:07:38   like we do and then within a minute of [TS]

01:07:41   me making that stick figure crack you [TS]

01:07:45   sent me a recording of your script which [TS]

01:07:47   you obviously already had when you did [TS]

01:07:49   that exact thing and made a joke about [TS]

01:07:50   you trademarking stick figures and you [TS]

01:07:52   did it in that funny voice that kind of [TS]

01:07:54   enthusiastic California voice that you [TS]

01:07:57   did it in [TS]

01:07:57   I thought it was really funny and I [TS]

01:07:59   actually went downstairs because i told [TS]

01:08:01   my wife a little bit about the [TS]

01:08:03   controversy and I said haha listen to [TS]

01:08:05   what greater sent me and I played it to [TS]

01:08:07   her and she thought it was really funny [TS]

01:08:09   as well so we had a laugh about it it's [TS]

01:08:11   the it's the self-important blogger [TS]

01:08:13   voice yeah exactly yes sort of the yeah [TS]

01:08:16   a lot of beauty bloggers sort of talk [TS]

01:08:17   like that and so anyway I came I came [TS]

01:08:20   back upstairs and I think in the space [TS]

01:08:23   of time that I had been downstairs you [TS]

01:08:25   had put the video on youtube I thought I [TS]

01:08:28   didn't actually know if you're going to [TS]

01:08:29   do it but I thought if you did you're [TS]

01:08:31   going to have to animate it but you [TS]

01:08:32   obviously didn't go for animation you [TS]

01:08:34   just went for a single card so you had [TS]

01:08:36   turned around really quickly and it was [TS]

01:08:37   up and funnily enough my wife and came [TS]

01:08:40   upstairs and she said she actually said [TS]

01:08:42   you are going to advise great not to put [TS]

01:08:44   that on YouTube about you [TS]

01:08:45   and I and I told you I said I said too [TS]

01:08:48   late he's already done it like it and [TS]

01:08:52   and i have to say i thought it was funny [TS]

01:08:55   I thought it was clever i thought it was [TS]

01:08:57   a very fair criticism and iOS one satire [TS]

01:09:01   a very effective way of criticizing [TS]

01:09:04   someone and i am still and I'm [TS]

01:09:08   definitely not the only one among people [TS]

01:09:09   who know you i'm still absolutely [TS]

01:09:12   astounded that you did it cannot believe [TS]

01:09:16   it's like it's like someone else took [TS]

01:09:18   over he took over your body for the day [TS]

01:09:20   that you would do that because I will [TS]

01:09:22   say this like I think there's lots of [TS]

01:09:24   things that you do a weird and I know [TS]

01:09:26   they work for you and I find really [TS]

01:09:27   interesting and you know you're a good [TS]

01:09:29   friend and I'm happy things work for you [TS]

01:09:31   but if there's one thing that I have [TS]

01:09:34   learned from you that i have taken from [TS]

01:09:37   our friendship that has made me a better [TS]

01:09:40   person and a happier person who it is [TS]

01:09:43   your ability to kind of ride above [TS]

01:09:46   controversy to not get involved with [TS]

01:09:50   things that don't affect you you are the [TS]

01:09:53   master of not being having your feathers [TS]

01:09:57   ruffled by things that shouldn't ruffle [TS]

01:09:59   your feathers and very often things that [TS]

01:10:01   used to really upset me and I'd take to [TS]

01:10:03   Twitter or i'd send angry emails and not [TS]

01:10:05   get upset so often I just sit back and I [TS]

01:10:08   even think about great i think you know [TS]

01:10:10   what grade would do would be really good [TS]

01:10:11   here he would think it through here [TS]

01:10:13   would think this doesn't affect me i [TS]

01:10:14   don't need to get involved [TS]

01:10:16   I don't need to put my oar in the water [TS]

01:10:18   I'll just do my own thing you know [TS]

01:10:21   think before you act and in this case [TS]

01:10:23   something that had nothing to do with [TS]

01:10:25   you [TS]

01:10:26   it didn't affect you in anyway you [TS]

01:10:29   didn't need to put in your two cents [TS]

01:10:31   worth and kick these guys who already [TS]

01:10:33   been kicked from a thousand different [TS]

01:10:34   angles it's not like they needed there [TS]

01:10:36   kicking and you just jumped in with this [TS]

01:10:38   huge kick it like you know and you know [TS]

01:10:41   hundreds of the other how many people [TS]

01:10:42   watch that hundreds of thousands of [TS]

01:10:44   million i don't know but it was a very [TS]

01:10:45   good night did really well the video but [TS]

01:10:47   I can't believe you did I still can't [TS]

01:10:49   believe you did it [TS]

01:10:50   why did you do it I told you after i [TS]

01:10:52   uploaded this video that this is [TS]

01:10:54   something I would have never done a year [TS]

01:10:56   ago and [TS]

01:10:57   actually put it down in no small part to [TS]

01:10:59   your influence through his company i'm [TS]

01:11:03   not saying that it's your fault or [TS]

01:11:04   anything you are constantly constantly [TS]

01:11:07   berating me for not just going with [TS]

01:11:10   things like color to you always want to [TS]

01:11:11   make sure like great you have to just go [TS]

01:11:13   along with this thing right here always [TS]

01:11:15   trying to get me to just be more [TS]

01:11:16   spontaneous and just do stuff and I felt [TS]

01:11:19   like putting up that video that was [TS]

01:11:20   totally a brady influence right we have [TS]

01:11:23   it if we had never done this podcast I [TS]

01:11:25   would never have put up those videos [TS]

01:11:27   well I think that's good because because [TS]

01:11:28   the criticism i would have you is I [TS]

01:11:31   sometimes think you don't have the [TS]

01:11:32   courage of your convictions like there [TS]

01:11:34   are things that I know you feel feel [TS]

01:11:36   about you know you have have opinions of [TS]

01:11:38   buns [TS]

01:11:39   what's right or wrong or even if you [TS]

01:11:41   don't know what's wrong you certainly [TS]

01:11:42   have opinions and then and then you'll [TS]

01:11:44   say we should talk about other podcasts [TS]

01:11:46   or just causes a world of trouble [TS]

01:11:48   it's not worth the hassle let's just [TS]

01:11:50   talk about something else and that's and [TS]

01:11:51   that's fair enough and I've learned from [TS]

01:11:52   that so to sit to see you feeling [TS]

01:11:54   passionately about something in an act [TS]

01:11:56   on it is a good thing i guess but but i [TS]

01:12:00   still think I still don't know why this [TS]

01:12:03   was the thing that made you do it and [TS]

01:12:05   that and and yet this one you know with [TS]

01:12:08   these in a community you move among as [TS]

01:12:10   well you know you're at your YouTube you [TS]

01:12:13   don't know the fine brothers as far as i [TS]

01:12:14   know but you're certainly friends with [TS]

01:12:15   some of their friends yet like it in [TS]

01:12:18   some ways this is like an incredibly [TS]

01:12:19   career stupid move [TS]

01:12:21   yeah like your lie i think you're you're [TS]

01:12:22   you're probably make them at some point [TS]

01:12:24   just some I know you don't go to many [TS]

01:12:25   things but there's a present as [TS]

01:12:28   certainly as you would say a non-trivial [TS]

01:12:29   chance that your your paths will cross [TS]

01:12:31   with the fire brothers and now you've [TS]

01:12:33   made this quite well-known video [TS]

01:12:35   completely ripping the piss out of them [TS]

01:12:38   to videos but to videos so it [TS]

01:12:42   yes right gray also spoke to the apology [TS]

01:12:47   video so yeah so he had keep them twice [TS]

01:12:50   ok so just like I think this was a [TS]

01:12:52   perfect storm of things that might turn [TS]

01:12:55   this into a big deal on the internet the [TS]

01:12:56   reason I reacted is is I felt like this [TS]

01:12:59   video was a perfect storm of things for [TS]

01:13:01   me right which is why I reacted so again [TS]

01:13:05   just like just with just with everybody [TS]

01:13:07   with with every opinion that everybody [TS]

01:13:09   has on every [TS]

01:13:10   things like there's there are levels [TS]

01:13:11   above and below which you're going to [TS]

01:13:13   cause actions and not that's what I am [TS]

01:13:15   very much a person who just like doesn't [TS]

01:13:16   Karen and avoids internet drama for the [TS]

01:13:19   most part but I felt like almost like [TS]

01:13:22   these two videos that they made the [TS]

01:13:24   first announcement and then especially [TS]

01:13:26   the update video that was that was [TS]

01:13:29   really the one that put me over the edge [TS]

01:13:30   I felt like these two things couldn't [TS]

01:13:32   have been more perfectly crafted to it [TS]

01:13:35   to annoy exactly be like that's how I [TS]

01:13:39   felt about those videos like they had [TS]

01:13:41   sat down and looked at an MRI scan of my [TS]

01:13:44   brain and come up with the thing that [TS]

01:13:45   could maximally frustrate me and so that [TS]

01:13:48   this is why I reacted and I also reacted [TS]

01:13:51   because I thought as soon as I saw that [TS]

01:13:53   update video i made the two videos x 111 [TS]

01:13:57   as a mockery of the the first [TS]

01:13:59   announcement and one as a mockery of [TS]

01:14:01   their update video but i only made the [TS]

01:14:03   two because I really just wanted to make [TS]

01:14:05   the second one so to make the second 1i [TS]

01:14:07   had to do the first one as well and [TS]

01:14:09   that's why I made both of them the thing [TS]

01:14:12   one about this that annoys me and this [TS]

01:14:14   is just this is just my own personal [TS]

01:14:15   situation but I I get frustrated by [TS]

01:14:19   these huge channels that have like big [TS]

01:14:24   staffs of people working for them that [TS]

01:14:27   then also want to talk like they're just [TS]

01:14:30   a person in their bedroom making videos [TS]

01:14:32   I mean this is the final thing like you [TS]

01:14:34   and I Brady like for the large part we [TS]

01:14:36   we are still individuals making videos [TS]

01:14:39   like we work with people on occasion to [TS]

01:14:41   help us make videos you have someone who [TS]

01:14:43   is making the computer file videos for [TS]

01:14:46   you but neither of us have like [TS]

01:14:47   employees and just like omnipresent [TS]

01:14:51   dozens of staff who are helping us out [TS]

01:14:53   with stuff [TS]

01:14:54   yeah that and the fine brothers it were [TS]

01:14:57   just being like this pinnacle example of [TS]

01:15:00   trying to talk like oh we're just were [TS]

01:15:03   just some normal people and we want to [TS]

01:15:05   we want to make videos to would bring [TS]

01:15:06   this to the world that's amazing but [TS]

01:15:08   like we also are sitting on top of these [TS]

01:15:10   hundreds and hundreds of millions of [TS]

01:15:12   views and 14 million subscribers and [TS]

01:15:14   we're showing pictures of our company [TS]

01:15:16   that has 20 employees the distance [TS]

01:15:19   between like what you are and the way [TS]

01:15:21   you are portraying yourself [TS]

01:15:23   that just kind of infuriates me hide my [TS]

01:15:25   feelings like there's nothing wrong with [TS]

01:15:26   being a giant company but if you are a [TS]

01:15:29   company with a whole bunch of people [TS]

01:15:30   like you have to talk in a different way [TS]

01:15:33   when you're discussing your plans so [TS]

01:15:36   what because I mean obviously obviously [TS]

01:15:38   you don't think people who have this [TS]

01:15:40   success and go in this direction of [TS]

01:15:42   starting companies like lose their right [TS]

01:15:45   to to be people and talk to them or do [TS]

01:15:48   not at all obviously you're not saying [TS]

01:15:49   that [TS]

01:15:50   so what is it about the way they spike [TS]

01:15:51   because these two brothers sort of front [TS]

01:15:53   of the video and yes but directly added [TS]

01:15:55   out there audience so I wrote down a [TS]

01:15:57   couple quotes like almost in in the very [TS]

01:16:00   beginning they do this thing that [TS]

01:16:01   companies do that I just absolutely hate [TS]

01:16:03   which is talking in terms of a family so [TS]

01:16:06   they have a reference about like [TS]

01:16:07   everybody who's joining the fine family [TS]

01:16:09   and this is a thing like when I would [TS]

01:16:12   work in schools ask okay school is [TS]

01:16:15   already so much closer to a family that [TS]

01:16:17   accompany ever is but boy did it [TS]

01:16:19   irritate the crap out of me whenever the [TS]

01:16:22   administrative staff in any of the [TS]

01:16:24   schools that i worked at talked about [TS]

01:16:26   like everybody is a family like you know [TS]

01:16:28   what we're not a family you want to use [TS]

01:16:31   the word family to have a certain [TS]

01:16:34   feeling in the people who are working [TS]

01:16:37   for you but family is not even remotely [TS]

01:16:39   this word right like i just it just sets [TS]

01:16:43   me right on edge like I hate that kind [TS]

01:16:46   of thing where someone is trying to [TS]

01:16:48   appropriate a more friendly word in a [TS]

01:16:50   situation that is not even remotely [TS]

01:16:52   applicable right so they're talking [TS]

01:16:55   about like join the fine family it's [TS]

01:16:57   going to bring us closer than ever [TS]

01:16:59   before like excuse me could you explain [TS]

01:17:02   to me what about your licensing program [TS]

01:17:05   is going to bring this quote family [TS]

01:17:07   closer than ever before [TS]

01:17:09   like it's a business deal there's [TS]

01:17:10   nothing wrong with the business deal [TS]

01:17:12   there's nothing wrong with doing [TS]

01:17:14   licensing but i think it's it's just [TS]

01:17:16   gross to presented in this way and then [TS]

01:17:20   and then they transition from talking [TS]

01:17:23   about a family to talking about like the [TS]

01:17:25   community like we want to do this with [TS]

01:17:27   the community and for the community and [TS]

01:17:30   how this is great for the community [TS]

01:17:32   and that's the other one that just again [TS]

01:17:34   as a kind of a YouTube thing that just [TS]

01:17:36   really bothers me like I don't like the [TS]

01:17:39   use of the word community especially in [TS]

01:17:42   this kind of situation with the fine [TS]

01:17:44   brothers where it's like what community [TS]

01:17:46   where is this community right i think [TS]

01:17:48   what you have is an audience like you [TS]

01:17:52   should use the word audience here [TS]

01:17:54   there's a large number of people who are [TS]

01:17:57   watching you do with thing and there's [TS]

01:17:59   nothing wrong with that but you want to [TS]

01:18:02   use the word community to put in [TS]

01:18:05   people's mind this vision of like a [TS]

01:18:07   village where we're all equal and all [TS]

01:18:10   working together for a thing as opposed [TS]

01:18:12   to the actual situation which is like [TS]

01:18:14   the two of you are the focus of [TS]

01:18:16   everything in the world and all of the [TS]

01:18:18   individuals on the outside are separated [TS]

01:18:20   from each other and they're only focal [TS]

01:18:22   point is you I think the reason why [TS]

01:18:25   people use the word community on YouTube [TS]

01:18:26   is because the word fan is uncomfortable [TS]

01:18:29   like we discussed this right i don't [TS]

01:18:32   like using the word fan and one of the [TS]

01:18:34   main reasons why i don't i don't like to [TS]

01:18:37   and will not try never to say something [TS]

01:18:39   like my fans because fan implies [TS]

01:18:43   something about the internal emotional [TS]

01:18:45   state of the person right they are a [TS]

01:18:47   person who just loves everything that [TS]

01:18:49   you do for it applies the fanatical yeah [TS]

01:18:51   right exactly that that's what it means [TS]

01:18:53   yeah and so this is why like I wish that [TS]

01:18:56   people who were uncomfortable with the [TS]

01:18:58   term fan wouldn't jump to the word [TS]

01:19:00   community because the word community is [TS]

01:19:02   a lie like unless you are actually [TS]

01:19:06   making your audience into a community by [TS]

01:19:10   having them arranged gatherings like [TS]

01:19:13   where they independently of you do [TS]

01:19:16   things like okay if that's occurring [TS]

01:19:18   that is a community but if you are the [TS]

01:19:21   central focus all the time of everything [TS]

01:19:23   that's occurring what you have is an [TS]

01:19:25   audience and so like that is what i try [TS]

01:19:28   to use the word audience i also like [TS]

01:19:30   audience because it's like well all it [TS]

01:19:32   says is that there are people who are [TS]

01:19:34   watching what you do but it again it [TS]

01:19:36   doesn't put a mental state in their head [TS]

01:19:39   these are fanatics who love you it's [TS]

01:19:41   just an it's an audience like that's [TS]

01:19:43   what it is and this is the act [TS]

01:19:44   cool relationship here like a person is [TS]

01:19:46   on stage and there are people watching [TS]

01:19:48   what they're doing so all the community [TS]

01:19:50   stuff it just again like when they're [TS]

01:19:53   trying to make a business deal that is [TS]

01:19:55   just like perfectly designed to irritate [TS]

01:19:57   me like whenever I hear the word [TS]

01:19:58   community it's just like our it sets my [TS]

01:20:00   teeth on edge if the if there is no [TS]

01:20:03   actual community they're like that's [TS]

01:20:06   that's why that first video just it its [TS]

01:20:09   setting off on the wrong foot like I [TS]

01:20:11   cannot believe how frustrating this is [TS]

01:20:13   and then the other thing about that [TS]

01:20:16   which i mentioned earlier is like this [TS]

01:20:18   amazing misunderstanding of who are they [TS]

01:20:21   making this video for its ok they have [TS]

01:20:24   an audience but the very fact that they [TS]

01:20:26   are putting out this video to me seemed [TS]

01:20:27   like some kind of amazing [TS]

01:20:29   misunderstanding of who their audiences [TS]

01:20:32   like how many of your subscribers do you [TS]

01:20:35   think care at all about your licensing [TS]

01:20:38   deal here like this this just seems [TS]

01:20:41   amazingly tone-deaf and then to follow [TS]

01:20:46   like oh we have this licensing deal [TS]

01:20:48   thing with i was looking at trying to [TS]

01:20:49   put the time for the video but like the [TS]

01:20:51   second half of the video is an entirely [TS]

01:20:53   all about like make sure that you don't [TS]

01:20:56   watch any videos that are different [TS]

01:20:58   react videos make sure you only watch [TS]

01:21:00   our react videos and kind of like [TS]

01:21:01   boycott people who are doing it [TS]

01:21:03   illegally and if you want to do it [TS]

01:21:04   legally do it through our licensing [TS]

01:21:06   program so that that first video like [TS]

01:21:08   kind of set me off like all man this is [TS]

01:21:10   just [TS]

01:21:11   I think I tweeted something about like [TS]

01:21:12   this is like perfectly wrong in every [TS]

01:21:15   way that it can possibly be [TS]

01:21:16   yeah like it's going to be misunderstood [TS]

01:21:19   it is aimed at an audience who can't [TS]

01:21:22   possibly care less and will only be [TS]

01:21:25   irritated by the implication that [TS]

01:21:27   they're doing something wrong by [TS]

01:21:28   watching other react videos or making [TS]

01:21:31   react videos and this false friendliness [TS]

01:21:34   of like we're a community where a family [TS]

01:21:37   like you're coming into our family it's [TS]

01:21:39   like yeah but in families you know you [TS]

01:21:40   don't pay licensing deals to your [TS]

01:21:42   parents for their names like that's not [TS]

01:21:44   how families work there's nothing about [TS]

01:21:46   the family let me let me give you a [TS]

01:21:48   prickly devil's advocate question then I [TS]

01:21:51   don't think we use words like family and [TS]

01:21:53   community if we do I have to do it off [TS]

01:21:56   because that'd be silly [TS]

01:21:58   but we do have things like we sell you [TS]

01:22:01   know flags for example like the front [TS]

01:22:03   that the halloween flag and like we make [TS]

01:22:06   a little bit of money from that but at [TS]

01:22:07   the same time we are saying by the flare [TS]

01:22:10   get you know fly than alien gear and we [TS]

01:22:11   make jokey jokes about you know the [TS]

01:22:13   mighty Nile and gear and show your [TS]

01:22:15   support [TS]

01:22:16   hello internet that how is that [TS]

01:22:18   different how we how are we different [TS]

01:22:20   when we sell a flag and say you know put [TS]

01:22:22   the flag on your world and fly a flag [TS]

01:22:24   for them [TS]

01:22:25   the mighty Nile and gear Hollywood to [TS]

01:22:26   that I guess we're having a little bit [TS]

01:22:28   ironic but yeah I mean we call it [TS]

01:22:30   nation-building yeah so so you think [TS]

01:22:34   we're being sufficiently sarcastic about [TS]

01:22:37   it or silly about that because I what's [TS]

01:22:40   the difference what's the difference [TS]

01:22:41   between what's the difference between [TS]

01:22:42   that you know there's that they're [TS]

01:22:44   saying they've got a community him you [TS]

01:22:47   know we have got a bunch of people that [TS]

01:22:48   you know like joking about this stuff [TS]

01:22:50   and talking to each other about it and [TS]

01:22:52   okay so like when you when you think [TS]

01:22:56   about what a community is right i just [TS]

01:22:58   think a key part of that is people doing [TS]

01:23:01   things like independently larger than [TS]

01:23:04   people doing things related to you and [TS]

01:23:06   so I I still just think like we have an [TS]

01:23:11   audience with hello internet like hello [TS]

01:23:13   Internet is by far and away the thing [TS]

01:23:14   that comes closest to the possibility of [TS]

01:23:16   using the word community right but i [TS]

01:23:18   would still stay far away from it and i [TS]

01:23:20   don't i don't like that word and I try [TS]

01:23:25   to avoid it although i'm sure if people [TS]

01:23:26   go back to the podcast they can find [TS]

01:23:28   someplace right slipped up [TS]

01:23:29   I just I just don't like that word and [TS]

01:23:31   it's not something that I would [TS]

01:23:32   necessarily use to describe this because [TS]

01:23:34   again it feels it feels like there's [TS]

01:23:36   something in there which is trying to [TS]

01:23:38   put something into the minds of the [TS]

01:23:40   people in your audience that is almost [TS]

01:23:42   exploitive because when i think about [TS]

01:23:44   again like working for school and when [TS]

01:23:46   they talk about a family these [TS]

01:23:48   conversations always came up when like [TS]

01:23:51   administration wants you to do something [TS]

01:23:53   that you would never do if you were [TS]

01:23:55   thinking about this as a company right [TS]

01:23:57   and you are an employee in a company [TS]

01:23:59   they want you to think about this as a [TS]

01:24:01   family because in a family like you go [TS]

01:24:04   way out of your way to help family [TS]

01:24:07   members in a way that you would not help [TS]

01:24:09   strangers or color [TS]

01:24:10   workers you're appropriating the the [TS]

01:24:12   goodwill and emotional baggage of the [TS]

01:24:14   word family to try and achieve exactly [TS]

01:24:17   yeah it's like but you know what in [TS]

01:24:19   families you don't give people you know [TS]

01:24:22   trial memberships in families you don't [TS]

01:24:24   fire people from families like that like [TS]

01:24:27   you want all of the good parts of the [TS]

01:24:30   word family and we know to be associated [TS]

01:24:33   with you but you also still want all of [TS]

01:24:35   the control of a company right and [TS]

01:24:38   that's what i don't like about the word [TS]

01:24:39   community like especially especially [TS]

01:24:42   when it's combined with asking for money [TS]

01:24:46   it's like I would never want to say [TS]

01:24:48   something like by a flag so that you can [TS]

01:24:52   be part of the hello Internet community [TS]

01:24:55   yeah just like what happens there is and [TS]

01:24:58   dont and dont and dont fly a flag that [TS]

01:25:00   wasn't made by us because then you're [TS]

01:25:02   not part of the community [TS]

01:25:04   yeah that's exactly like I'm i'm [TS]

01:25:05   actually thinking like me because when [TS]

01:25:07   we talked about the what when the flag [TS]

01:25:09   thing came up like that was one of the [TS]

01:25:10   very reasons why i know we we gave over [TS]

01:25:13   the design like to the public domain [TS]

01:25:15   right and i think this is the one of the [TS]

01:25:17   main this is one of the few places i [TS]

01:25:19   think i may have used the word community [TS]

01:25:20   because I can genuinely say like the [TS]

01:25:22   community made this because we had [TS]

01:25:24   nothing to do with that flag that flag [TS]

01:25:26   was several iterations of other people [TS]

01:25:28   and actually they're doing and they're [TS]

01:25:30   doing what you said they're like 3d [TS]

01:25:31   printing and doing all sorts of making [TS]

01:25:33   phone cases out of it and also its side [TS]

01:25:35   and that's complete nothing to do with [TS]

01:25:36   us [TS]

01:25:37   yeah that that's the end but like that [TS]

01:25:39   is the closest you're gonna come to a [TS]

01:25:41   community and it is it a moment where [TS]

01:25:43   like we discussed it ahead of time looks [TS]

01:25:45   like that we are not going to be the [TS]

01:25:47   exclusive owners of this flag we didn't [TS]

01:25:50   make it like it came organically without [TS]

01:25:52   us [TS]

01:25:53   and so it makes sense to like throw it [TS]

01:25:55   back out organically like we can't claim [TS]

01:25:57   ownership of this thing that's what I [TS]

01:25:59   mean with is this kind of community [TS]

01:26:00   thing I guess it's very very tricky but [TS]

01:26:03   i just think audience is almost always [TS]

01:26:05   the correct word it doesn't have [TS]

01:26:07   emotional baggage and it's it's a [TS]

01:26:09   description of the situation now the the [TS]

01:26:13   update video the fine brothers made the [TS]

01:26:15   kind of the the half retraction before [TS]

01:26:18   the complete retraction happened [TS]

01:26:20   yea which was not done with the video [TS]

01:26:22   that was just done quietly with a blog [TS]

01:26:23   post but this kind of half retraction [TS]

01:26:25   attempt to to stem the hemorrhaging Lou [TS]

01:26:30   editorially aside if you just ignore the [TS]

01:26:32   content and what they were trying to [TS]

01:26:34   achieve with that that was not for guys [TS]

01:26:36   who make films for a living [TS]

01:26:38   that was not well-executed artistically [TS]

01:26:42   the way that looks in their expressions [TS]

01:26:45   and the sum of the scripting like I [TS]

01:26:48   think if they could do that differently [TS]

01:26:49   a second time they would take that [TS]

01:26:52   option [TS]

01:26:53   yeah that that that video was the one [TS]

01:26:56   where when I watched it I knew [TS]

01:26:58   immediately i had to make the two videos [TS]

01:27:00   but I mean nothing there but the choice [TS]

01:27:04   was taken away from you [TS]

01:27:05   I honestly felt like I have no choice [TS]

01:27:08   now I'd like this like the first video [TS]

01:27:10   annoyed me on these things that are [TS]

01:27:13   particular annoyance to me and and just [TS]

01:27:15   like press my buttons but I swear to God [TS]

01:27:19   when i watch that update video the [TS]

01:27:21   moment they use the word reboot it was [TS]

01:27:24   like yeah no I have no choice right i [TS]

01:27:26   forgot I forgot they usually free but [TS]

01:27:28   don't know about that almost made me [TS]

01:27:31   forgive them [TS]

01:27:32   yeah i was i was watching the thing I [TS]

01:27:34   like i knew i was already going to make [TS]

01:27:36   this video but it's like when they said [TS]

01:27:37   freeboot it's like it's like they handed [TS]

01:27:39   me a letter of permission to make a [TS]

01:27:42   video about this and I just had I i [TS]

01:27:45   really felt like I had no choice and you [TS]

01:27:47   know and those two videos i made like I [TS]

01:27:49   have never made anything faster in my [TS]

01:27:50   whole life like those those two videos [TS]

01:27:52   they were just you know it was like God [TS]

01:27:56   was reaching down from heaven and just [TS]

01:27:58   made everything go right like did it in [TS]

01:28:00   a take you know it took no editing there [TS]

01:28:03   was like it just came out perfectly the [TS]

01:28:05   first time for both videos and it was [TS]

01:28:07   like well I you know this is divinely [TS]

01:28:10   ordained right like I'm not even [TS]

01:28:11   thinking about this like up they go [TS]

01:28:13   right and then once they're up there [TS]

01:28:15   it's like God assured each video wanted [TS]

01:28:18   time to the very top slot of all the [TS]

01:28:22   reddit for [TS]

01:28:23   full videos it was like well you know [TS]

01:28:26   again out of my hands totally out of my [TS]

01:28:29   hands yeah but that but that update [TS]

01:28:32   video is one of the most unbelievable [TS]

01:28:35   things I have ever seen and that was the [TS]

01:28:38   one where it was like okay man you made [TS]

01:28:41   this video that was poorly misunderstood [TS]

01:28:43   that press my buttons in the wrong way [TS]

01:28:44   and then your update video it seems like [TS]

01:28:48   it's nothing but you expressing contempt [TS]

01:28:52   for your audience not understanding your [TS]

01:28:55   poorly made first video [TS]

01:28:57   hence and it was that what that was the [TS]

01:29:01   astounding part of it was it's like me [TS]

01:29:03   like I thought this first video was was [TS]

01:29:06   bad but this this does is not even to [TS]

01:29:08   double-down this is like it like an [TS]

01:29:10   octuple down on your mistake the first [TS]

01:29:12   time and then maybe I'll play some audio [TS]

01:29:15   clips from people here because like you [TS]

01:29:16   just have to hear it's unbelievable how [TS]

01:29:19   they sound if you watch it if you watch [TS]

01:29:21   the video the facial expressions they're [TS]

01:29:23   making is again like shaking their heads [TS]

01:29:26   can't believe that their business [TS]

01:29:29   licensing plan that they sent out to 14 [TS]

01:29:31   million subscribers who normally watch [TS]

01:29:33   react videos that wasn't well-received [TS]

01:29:37   it's it's it's amazing it's amazing and [TS]

01:29:41   at my personal theory here is i guess i [TS]

01:29:43   do not know the fine brothers [TS]

01:29:45   I don't know any of the details behind [TS]

01:29:46   the scenes of any of this like I'm just [TS]

01:29:48   even though I'm a youtuber like in many [TS]

01:29:50   ways I'm just as much on the outside of [TS]

01:29:51   this is everybody else [TS]

01:29:53   my guess about this is just that the [TS]

01:29:55   fine brothers have to have been spending [TS]

01:29:57   so much time as the heads of this [TS]

01:30:01   company talking to other media companies [TS]

01:30:05   and talking to other business people [TS]

01:30:06   that they just they were just kind of [TS]

01:30:10   out of touch with how to talk about all [TS]

01:30:12   of this business stuff to a normal [TS]

01:30:15   audience like that that this is where [TS]

01:30:17   they spend all their time with people [TS]

01:30:19   who are like boy we'd love to licensure [TS]

01:30:21   intellectual property and so they think [TS]

01:30:23   everybody would be interested in [TS]

01:30:24   licensing our intellectual property and [TS]

01:30:26   that's why they made this video and [TS]

01:30:28   and that's also why they were surprised [TS]

01:30:30   that it wasn't well-received because [TS]

01:30:32   from their perspective everyone they [TS]

01:30:33   talked to love this idea great this was [TS]

01:30:36   their phantom menace and then the maid [TS]

01:30:39   the maid attack of the clones I wish [TS]

01:30:40   they'd made a third one just to finish [TS]

01:30:42   it off but it's like that it's like my [TS]

01:30:45   dad had a great note that become [TS]

01:30:47   successful that but but didn't know when [TS]

01:30:49   watch it I mean this is what makes what [TS]

01:30:52   did someone watch the second video but [TS]

01:30:54   they must have played two people and [TS]

01:30:55   said we're thinking of putting this out [TS]

01:30:57   to improve the situation what do you [TS]

01:30:59   think [TS]

01:31:00   and to those people look at it go great [TS]

01:31:03   that's that's going to sort of guys well [TS]

01:31:04   done everything that's that you know [TS]

01:31:06   you're going to put the fire out there [TS]

01:31:07   well obviously obviously that is poured [TS]

01:31:09   fuel on the fire but speaking of the [TS]

01:31:11   prequels as the red letter media review [TS]

01:31:15   show so well in those prequels there are [TS]

01:31:17   many scenes where George Lucas is [TS]

01:31:19   talking to underlings and you can [TS]

01:31:21   totally see that the underlings have [TS]

01:31:23   thoughts on their mind that they are not [TS]

01:31:25   saying right so everyone can agree with [TS]

01:31:27   George Lucas and this is this is again [TS]

01:31:30   where I think like this idea of this [TS]

01:31:31   there's nothing wrong with being a [TS]

01:31:33   company but but one of the problems with [TS]

01:31:35   being a company is that it can be [TS]

01:31:36   difficult for the people at the top to [TS]

01:31:38   have a sense of how people below them [TS]

01:31:40   are actually thinking and so I imagine [TS]

01:31:42   the same thing kind of happened where [TS]

01:31:43   it's like these guys are in charge of [TS]

01:31:45   the company they made this video there [TS]

01:31:46   they're the ones who have the final say [TS]

01:31:47   whether it goes up or not and they show [TS]

01:31:49   it to a couple people they're like oh [TS]

01:31:50   yeah it's great you know like it up it [TS]

01:31:53   goes right and the whole thing cleared [TS]

01:31:55   up in flames I should they showed it to [TS]

01:31:57   some some people whose salary they're [TS]

01:31:59   paying exactly what do you think of this [TS]

01:32:01   video that we appear in physically and [TS]

01:32:04   no one can say well well boss I know you [TS]

01:32:06   pay my salary but the way you're rolling [TS]

01:32:08   your eyes there make sure that really [TS]

01:32:09   dodgy and yes i know i know that you pay [TS]

01:32:12   my health insurance but you look really [TS]

01:32:14   poor in there and unconvincing you know [TS]

01:32:17   that they don't know they may be when [TS]

01:32:19   you say sorry you shouldn't say it with [TS]

01:32:21   all of the contempt in the world [TS]

01:32:24   thank you tone it down like a little [TS]

01:32:26   because when you saying sorry you're [TS]

01:32:29   clearly sorry that you have to make this [TS]

01:32:31   video not sorry for anything that has [TS]

01:32:34   occurred [TS]

01:32:35   let me ask you one more thing have many [TS]

01:32:37   of your other friends and [TS]

01:32:39   youtube buddies and people that have a [TS]

01:32:41   city about the fact that you put your in [TS]

01:32:43   the water here [TS]

01:32:44   have they said you know good for you [TS]

01:32:45   gray or they said well man that was [TS]

01:32:47   crazy or what's what's the general [TS]

01:32:48   reaction been from other people like me [TS]

01:32:51   in your life [TS]

01:32:52   well this is actually you know this [TS]

01:32:55   actually just goes back to the like the [TS]

01:32:56   company thing in some ways with like you [TS]

01:32:59   don't know what people's private [TS]

01:33:00   thoughts are but when I talk to people [TS]

01:33:02   the the universal consensus from my [TS]

01:33:05   perspective seems to be like one the [TS]

01:33:07   fine brothers thing was a total [TS]

01:33:10   unmitigated disaster and then to the [TS]

01:33:15   parody videos were hilarious [TS]

01:33:17   like that's you know that's that's what [TS]

01:33:19   I've been hearing from people but you [TS]

01:33:20   never know what are the complete [TS]

01:33:22   internal thoughts of other people about [TS]

01:33:23   whether or not they thought it was a [TS]

01:33:25   good idea to do this or you know you [TS]

01:33:27   don't know that like that's not a thing [TS]

01:33:28   you can necessarily tell because I mean [TS]

01:33:30   you're you're you're mr. cost-benefit [TS]

01:33:32   analysis and I don't imagine these [TS]

01:33:33   videos have been lucky have been like [TS]

01:33:37   I've been I guess you made some [TS]

01:33:38   advertising and come from the men got [TS]

01:33:40   some new subscribers me but they have a [TS]

01:33:42   big for you like it yeah that mean in [TS]

01:33:46   terms of of dollars earned per minute [TS]

01:33:48   spent there actually probably the most [TS]

01:33:50   profitable videos I've ever made [TS]

01:33:52   ok ok because i was going to say what I [TS]

01:33:54   was going to say you and now we've come [TS]

01:33:55   out the other end what was in it for you [TS]

01:33:57   or did you just want to play [TS]

01:33:59   I mean that the part of it was like this [TS]

01:34:02   was just irresistible [TS]

01:34:03   I i really do you feeling of like I had [TS]

01:34:06   no choice right [TS]

01:34:07   I just honest-to-god felt like I had no [TS]

01:34:10   choice i saw those videos i immediately [TS]

01:34:12   record the audio it came out perfect [TS]

01:34:13   everything was perfect like well i'm [TS]

01:34:16   uploading them that's why it was so fast [TS]

01:34:18   from your perspective like you didn't [TS]

01:34:19   make it down to the kitchen and back [TS]

01:34:21   before I'll upload the video [TS]

01:34:23   yeah so it was that that's just the way [TS]

01:34:26   was and the second thing is like it was [TS]

01:34:27   everything about it just pushed my [TS]

01:34:30   button perfectly i wanted to upload [TS]

01:34:32   these things I thought they were funny I [TS]

01:34:34   thought that their their commentary was [TS]

01:34:36   like was on point as far as satire goes [TS]

01:34:38   so it's like I just I just couldn't not [TS]

01:34:41   like what you know what is it a great [TS]

01:34:42   career decision like maybe not but you [TS]

01:34:46   know i i've learned to be learned to be [TS]

01:34:48   more reckless from your Brady that's [TS]

01:34:50   what I've learned [TS]

01:34:50   so as I literally I felt a bit sorry for [TS]

01:34:55   them at time you know you know I don't [TS]

01:34:57   lynch mobs and these guys certainly [TS]

01:35:00   ledged and they they were they were [TS]

01:35:03   kicked from all angles and like at times [TS]

01:35:05   of up you know I thought that must be [TS]

01:35:07   really hard on them and you know lying [TS]

01:35:09   in bed at night and because i don't know [TS]

01:35:11   the human beings and I feel sorry for [TS]

01:35:13   them but another part of me thinks if [TS]

01:35:15   this hadn't happened if people hadn't [TS]

01:35:17   piled on and people just tried to reason [TS]

01:35:19   with the more to have a rational [TS]

01:35:21   discussion with them they wouldn't have [TS]

01:35:25   stopped and this would have come to a [TS]

01:35:27   head in another way I don't know how I [TS]

01:35:29   don't know where them yeah more videos [TS]

01:35:30   will be taken down i don't i don't know [TS]

01:35:32   if it would have you know the battle [TS]

01:35:34   would have been won or lost anyway but [TS]

01:35:37   certainly something good came from this [TS]

01:35:39   and that is this thing they were trying [TS]

01:35:42   to do that i don't think they should [TS]

01:35:43   have been doing it will be allowed to do [TS]

01:35:45   did stop so it felt like it didn't [TS]

01:35:48   receive something that i think probably [TS]

01:35:50   should have been achieved and that is [TS]

01:35:51   them taking control of a format that I [TS]

01:35:54   don't think my own but I don't know if [TS]

01:35:56   there was a better way to do it because [TS]

01:35:57   I don't I don't I didn't like watching [TS]

01:35:59   them I didn't like watching what they [TS]

01:36:01   had to go through i'm not lumping you [TS]

01:36:03   into that in terms of the really bad [TS]

01:36:04   stuff but i don't want to sound like I'm [TS]

01:36:06   picking on ya [TS]

01:36:07   oh no I don't think I don't think you [TS]

01:36:09   are at all but this is this is always [TS]

01:36:11   what happens with the mark right and [TS]

01:36:12   especially when you have a mob that is [TS]

01:36:14   in this that I think the size of [TS]

01:36:16   hundreds of thousands maybe millions [TS]

01:36:17   gonna get behavior that's not great and [TS]

01:36:19   that's what this is where like every [TS]

01:36:20   person always ends up drawing their own [TS]

01:36:22   line and so like I like the thing i [TS]

01:36:25   discuss with a few people is the point [TS]

01:36:27   at which it seemed to me like okay this [TS]

01:36:29   is this is gone from like a fun mob to [TS]

01:36:31   like a little scary is when it starts [TS]

01:36:36   becoming the meta thing where they're [TS]

01:36:38   all these trackers that were keeping [TS]

01:36:39   record of how many subscribers they had [TS]

01:36:42   lost per hour and then it becomes like [TS]

01:36:44   live feeds that people can watch of how [TS]

01:36:46   many people are unsubscribing you know / [TS]

01:36:49   minutes to their Channel and that's [TS]

01:36:51   that's the part where to me it felt like [TS]

01:36:53   who this now has suddenly become like a [TS]

01:36:56   dangerous thing because it's not even [TS]

01:36:58   about the issue anymore now it's like a [TS]

01:37:00   mob that just wants to see a number goat [TS]

01:37:03   down and yeah and then I know they no [TS]

01:37:06   longer cared about the various I just [TS]

01:37:07   wanted to watch the execution [TS]

01:37:09   I don't think an execution in some ways [TS]

01:37:10   it is too strong of a metaphor there [TS]

01:37:12   because internet internet mobs like they [TS]

01:37:15   don't kill people but i think taking [TS]

01:37:18   away or threatening the way someone [TS]

01:37:21   makes a living in the modern world like [TS]

01:37:24   that's pretty close to threatening [TS]

01:37:26   someone's life like to take away the way [TS]

01:37:29   they make a living [TS]

01:37:30   yeah and and then to turn that and into [TS]

01:37:33   the central focus of it is worth like [TS]

01:37:35   cool [TS]

01:37:35   that's because that's the way moms go [TS]

01:37:38   but that's always the way moms go this [TS]

01:37:41   episode of Hello internet is brought to [TS]

01:37:43   you by Squarespace start building your [TS]

01:37:45   website today at squarespace.com and [TS]

01:37:48   enter the offer code [TS]

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01:37:52   when it comes to giving yourself a place [TS]

01:37:54   online there's no place like Squarespace [TS]

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01:38:10   about upgrading a linux server on the [TS]

01:38:13   other side of the country [TS]

01:38:14   it's just so easy which is why i use [TS]

01:38:17   square space for all the websites that i [TS]

01:38:19   run with squarespace you can build sites [TS]

01:38:22   that look professionally designed [TS]

01:38:23   regardless of your skill level [TS]

01:38:26   no coding required they have intuitive [TS]

01:38:29   easy-to-use tools that can make your [TS]

01:38:31   website look and feel exactly how you [TS]

01:38:34   want [TS]

01:38:34   and while it can look beautiful on the [TS]

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01:38:40   the inside because of their [TS]

01:38:41   state-of-the-art technology Squarespace [TS]

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01:38:47   some of the most respected brands in the [TS]

01:38:49   world it's really easy to get started [TS]

01:38:51   with a no credit card required trial by [TS]

01:38:55   going to squarespace.com just start to [TS]

01:38:58   play around with how you want your [TS]

01:38:59   website to look given a give it a test [TS]

01:39:02   drive [TS]

01:39:02   you will like it and if you have any [TS]

01:39:05   questions whatsoever they have twenty [TS]

01:39:08   four seven support with live chat and [TS]

01:39:10   email and teams based around the world [TS]

01:39:13   to help you wherever [TS]

01:39:14   you are there's so much on square space [TS]

01:39:16   that it's impossible to talk about a [TS]

01:39:18   single ad but like if you need a website [TS]

01:39:21   if you ever want to do anything with it [TS]

01:39:23   if you just want to have a single [TS]

01:39:25   portfolio or you want to run a whole [TS]

01:39:27   online store [TS]

01:39:28   Squarespace has got you covered [TS]

01:39:30   seriously try them out [TS]

01:39:32   squarespace.com offer code hello to get [TS]

01:39:35   ten percent off and to show your support [TS]

01:39:37   for this show [TS]

01:39:38   thank you to squarespace Squarespace you [TS]

01:39:41   should [TS]

01:39:42   hello just finishing my skills so great [TS]

01:39:46   this actually segways somewhat nicely [TS]

01:39:48   with a book that I happen to have just [TS]

01:39:50   finished reading and as a book that you [TS]

01:39:52   previously recommended in one of our [TS]

01:39:54   audible ads and that is so you've been [TS]

01:39:57   publicly shamed by jon ronson blue [TS]

01:40:02   that's rising are sometimes called in [TS]

01:40:04   mark ronson my head cuz he's a music [TS]

01:40:06   producer I was worried about getting [TS]

01:40:07   that wrong i keep calling him Ron [TS]

01:40:09   Johnson as other people have pointed out [TS]

01:40:11   i think that very audible at a fatal [TS]

01:40:14   mistake twice [TS]

01:40:15   I really heard they're so Jon Ronson not [TS]

01:40:18   ron johnson is the segway the segway is [TS]

01:40:22   a perfect segue perhaps talking about [TS]

01:40:24   mobs and marks on the internet i had not [TS]

01:40:26   read the book of course i'd heard you [TS]

01:40:28   talk about it I i went for the dead tree [TS]

01:40:31   version in this particular case because [TS]

01:40:33   it's almost it's always nice to have a [TS]

01:40:35   dead tree version when you're on holiday [TS]

01:40:37   and the beach and stuff so yeah and good [TS]

01:40:41   book very very thought-provoking it's [TS]

01:40:44   been awhile since i read a book that got [TS]

01:40:47   me that down about the world but in a [TS]

01:40:49   good way [TS]

01:40:50   I've been working on that the script for [TS]

01:40:51   the Q&A video for my channel for the the [TS]

01:40:54   two million subscriber thing no one of [TS]

01:40:56   the questions someone asked me was like [TS]

01:40:59   what was the best book of the last year [TS]

01:41:01   that I read and I looked over my list [TS]

01:41:03   and I think i'm going to give my book of [TS]

01:41:07   the year award to this book this one is [TS]

01:41:11   a really interesting book [TS]

01:41:14   and it's also a book that i can almost [TS]

01:41:17   universally recommend like where some of [TS]

01:41:20   the other books that I happen to really [TS]

01:41:21   like that i read this year I need to [TS]

01:41:23   know something about the person she's [TS]

01:41:25   like I'm not going to recommend super [TS]

01:41:26   intelligence to everybody as a book [TS]

01:41:28   that's like you a lot of crazy stuff [TS]

01:41:29   that AI like I need to know some things [TS]

01:41:31   about you but this book it falls into [TS]

01:41:34   the interesting category of like okay if [TS]

01:41:36   you make your living on the internet [TS]

01:41:39   this is required reading right [TS]

01:41:41   absolutely required reading but also [TS]

01:41:44   just for anybody who participates in [TS]

01:41:47   social media on the internet i also [TS]

01:41:49   think this is required reading and so [TS]

01:41:51   now we're talking about like ninety [TS]

01:41:53   percent of the internet connected human [TS]

01:41:54   population so I like I I i think it's a [TS]

01:41:58   very interesting very well-written book [TS]

01:42:00   i don't agree with everything in it as [TS]

01:42:02   always with these kind of things but but [TS]

01:42:04   man it's it's one that has really stuck [TS]

01:42:06   with me since I read it like a year ago [TS]

01:42:08   so for people who don't know what the [TS]

01:42:11   books about basically in a nutshell he's [TS]

01:42:14   talking about he's talking about the way [TS]

01:42:16   that Twitter can be used to sort of turn [TS]

01:42:19   on someone when they do things wrong or [TS]

01:42:21   they that are perceived to have done [TS]

01:42:23   things wrong and sort of a Twitter mob [TS]

01:42:25   is usually it's very Twitter centric [TS]

01:42:27   this book which is perhaps one of my [TS]

01:42:28   criticisms over but he talks about how a [TS]

01:42:31   Twitter mob will turn on someone and [TS]

01:42:33   basically destroy their life and had [TS]

01:42:36   basically ship shame them and then he [TS]

01:42:39   goes off on a few changes its very well [TS]

01:42:40   written book and it's very chatty and he [TS]

01:42:42   goes on bit of a journey as he explores [TS]

01:42:44   this whole issue of public shaming and [TS]

01:42:46   it goes and makes different people [TS]

01:42:47   he made some victims he made some semi [TS]

01:42:51   perpetrators he meets other people who [TS]

01:42:52   have interesting views on shame and [TS]

01:42:54   public shame [TS]

01:42:56   yeah so that's that's what the books [TS]

01:42:57   about about what it's like for people [TS]

01:43:00   who have the internet turn on them like [TS]

01:43:03   the four hundred others just experienced [TS]

01:43:05   that the prime example of the mean girl [TS]

01:43:07   that he's using it's justine was the [TS]

01:43:09   last Asako I think and is that's right [TS]

01:43:12   gasps she's 16 Sacco and her her story [TS]

01:43:16   was making it a tweet where she joked [TS]

01:43:19   about she's going to Africa and that she [TS]

01:43:22   doesn't have to worry about getting aids [TS]

01:43:23   because she's white like you know [TS]

01:43:25   not the best joke in the world kind of [TS]

01:43:26   what actually I can't believe that [TS]

01:43:29   people didn't realize that was a joke [TS]

01:43:30   like that that is a testament to [TS]

01:43:33   people's inability to and well socket i [TS]

01:43:35   was able to get i get to that in a [TS]

01:43:37   second i had a particular theory about [TS]

01:43:38   this right okay but but she made this [TS]

01:43:41   this joke and she know she didn't have [TS]

01:43:44   very many Twitter followers [TS]

01:43:46   she's sort of like just a regular [TS]

01:43:47   citizen on the internet you know she's [TS]

01:43:49   just a normal person using Twitter but [TS]

01:43:51   so she's on her way to South Africa she [TS]

01:43:53   gets on a plane and while she's on the [TS]

01:43:54   flight this thing explodes into people [TS]

01:43:59   you know saying like a week we have to [TS]

01:44:01   get this racist fired from her job right [TS]

01:44:04   anyone who's seen these these internet [TS]

01:44:06   mobs like you know this thing like it [TS]

01:44:07   explodes into a bigger thing and just [TS]

01:44:10   like the fine brothers were perfect [TS]

01:44:12   storm [TS]

01:44:12   the reason it happened to Justine like [TS]

01:44:15   this perfect storm for her was like yes [TS]

01:44:17   one her job was in PR right so that [TS]

01:44:20   makes the story way more delicious too [TS]

01:44:23   there was this element of boy isn't she [TS]

01:44:26   going to be surprised when the plane [TS]

01:44:28   lands like there were reporters going on [TS]

01:44:30   you know to to be at the airport so [TS]

01:44:32   there was like a countdown clock for [TS]

01:44:34   excitement there was suspense in a [TS]

01:44:36   narrative and and then the other thing [TS]

01:44:39   which which is more like my personal [TS]

01:44:42   theory on why this stuff happens is that [TS]

01:44:45   I think people were able to willingly [TS]

01:44:50   misinterpret her tweet because she's a [TS]

01:44:55   case of we're like beating down on her [TS]

01:44:58   allows people to signal to all of their [TS]

01:45:02   friends how they don't like racism it [TS]

01:45:04   like the beat down on her is is twice as [TS]

01:45:07   strong because people feel like I get to [TS]

01:45:09   tell everybody how great I am because [TS]

01:45:12   boy don't I hate racists think you [TS]

01:45:15   really think that joke is like some [TS]

01:45:17   super racist joke or like is it is just [TS]

01:45:20   a bad joke or just sarcasm but I think [TS]

01:45:22   like this is the this is the combination [TS]

01:45:25   of things that turns it into a gigantic [TS]

01:45:28   storms like this perfect stuff and so [TS]

01:45:31   her life is just [TS]

01:45:33   ruined from this like she loses her job [TS]

01:45:35   and has just been like harassed by it [TS]

01:45:41   and I can and not understandably size [TS]

01:45:44   large mob like I cannot imagine how [TS]

01:45:47   traumatic this must be again just for [TS]

01:45:49   like a regular citizen living their [TS]

01:45:51   regular lives not someone who makes a [TS]

01:45:53   public living on the internet like I [TS]

01:45:56   can't imagine what it would be like to [TS]

01:45:57   be at the at the center of this kind of [TS]

01:46:00   thing that one does drive me crazy [TS]

01:46:02   because that way the way I interpret [TS]

01:46:04   that tweet it actually was kind of it [TS]

01:46:07   was kind of making a racial commentary [TS]

01:46:08   anyway like it was making a sort of a [TS]

01:46:10   positive ratio commentary about sort of [TS]

01:46:13   the disproportionate number of people [TS]

01:46:14   getting aids and what she was doing in [TS]

01:46:17   this kind of reverse she was doing it [TS]

01:46:19   the way i could a comedian would do it [TS]

01:46:21   like a comedian would do that on a stage [TS]

01:46:23   and everyone would get it and actually [TS]

01:46:24   think it's a it's actually an [TS]

01:46:26   interesting commentary on the state of [TS]

01:46:27   the world and she did and people just [TS]

01:46:29   thought that she was some kind of moron [TS]

01:46:31   who didn't understand how aids worked or [TS]

01:46:32   something but Johnson does make that [TS]

01:46:35   same point and he goes like the history [TS]

01:46:37   of comedy which I do this and other [TS]

01:46:38   things I think he / cells that a little [TS]

01:46:40   bit because because my perspective on it [TS]

01:46:41   is it doesn't even really matter if it [TS]

01:46:44   was intended as some kind of commentary [TS]

01:46:46   like that like the amount of incredible [TS]

01:46:50   pushback she got was disproportionate to [TS]

01:46:52   his thing right even if it you know like [TS]

01:46:54   the this version of the best version of [TS]

01:46:57   her like she's sitting there [TS]

01:46:58   intentionally crafting like a commentary [TS]

01:47:00   on the situation of AIDS in Africa right [TS]

01:47:02   like or she just made a thoughtless joke [TS]

01:47:05   like but even if she just made a [TS]

01:47:07   thoughtless joke that the what happened [TS]

01:47:10   is just wildly just before here [TS]

01:47:12   yeah so i can I came out of this book [TS]

01:47:15   again wishing i didn't I wasn't on [TS]

01:47:17   Twitter and thinking and thinking and [TS]

01:47:20   thinking that social media and you know [TS]

01:47:22   I still don't think it's as I still [TS]

01:47:24   think it's not as bad as i read it i [TS]

01:47:26   still think I still think that it's the [TS]

01:47:27   worst place but we got to talk about [TS]

01:47:29   that sometime yeah but it's it made me [TS]

01:47:32   think of it made me think too it was [TS]

01:47:34   poison as well but it's really scary [TS]

01:47:37   isn't it it's like it's like any book or [TS]

01:47:39   film you see where something really bad [TS]

01:47:41   happens to someone and you think gosh [TS]

01:47:43   you know [TS]

01:47:43   that could that could happen to me and [TS]

01:47:45   you mentioned maybe a week ago that you [TS]

01:47:46   were reading this and that it would [TS]

01:47:47   might be an interesting things to talk [TS]

01:47:49   about on the podcast and of course it [TS]

01:47:51   ties in very well with the whole farm [TS]

01:47:53   fine brothers thing where i was just [TS]

01:47:54   recently part of a gigantic internet mob [TS]

01:47:56   never thinking a lot about this because [TS]

01:47:59   i canno over maybe the last year I've [TS]

01:48:02   just been I've just become fascinated [TS]

01:48:04   with the way like arguments happen on [TS]

01:48:07   the internet and the way people talk [TS]

01:48:08   about things and advertising the Guns [TS]

01:48:12   Germs and Steel will get to add another [TS]

01:48:14   another point like I'm just kind of [TS]

01:48:15   fascinated more and more by the way in [TS]

01:48:18   the internet like affects people's [TS]

01:48:20   behavior but I was trying to think about [TS]

01:48:22   like why do some mob seemed ok to me and [TS]

01:48:25   other mobs don't like the Justine thing [TS]

01:48:29   mob seems really bad to me but then when [TS]

01:48:32   you get like mobs against the company [TS]

01:48:34   trying to change the company's behaviors [TS]

01:48:36   like what that seems fine to me thinking [TS]

01:48:39   about it and in my notes I came up with [TS]

01:48:41   kind of three axes that make it more or [TS]

01:48:45   less ok [TS]

01:48:46   from my perspective I think one of those [TS]

01:48:49   is like individuals versus corporations [TS]

01:48:52   mhm so like the more the dial is turned [TS]

01:48:55   towards is this mob against one [TS]

01:48:57   individual acting alone like that seems [TS]

01:49:01   worse than a mob acting against like [TS]

01:49:04   some gigantic trans-continental company [TS]

01:49:08   the other axes that was thinking about [TS]

01:49:09   is like public versus private people and [TS]

01:49:13   this again is where like he has a few [TS]

01:49:15   examples in the book but again i'm just [TS]

01:49:17   like regular internet citizens that gets [TS]

01:49:20   swept up into a thing that is way beyond [TS]

01:49:23   them because they are are the spark that [TS]

01:49:25   kicks off a fire but their normal life [TS]

01:49:28   is that they're just normal people so [TS]

01:49:31   not public figures [TS]

01:49:32   yeah and the closer you are on the end [TS]

01:49:34   of being a public figure the more ok it [TS]

01:49:38   is or like the less of a problem i would [TS]

01:49:40   have with the mob depending on the [TS]

01:49:41   circumstances it doesn't mean that it's [TS]

01:49:43   totally okay to just like beatdown all [TS]

01:49:45   public figures but I'm trying like when [TS]

01:49:47   do I get mad about [TS]

01:49:49   witch hunts on the internet and when am [TS]

01:49:51   i less likely to get mad like the more [TS]

01:49:54   famous a person is the more you can have [TS]

01:49:57   angry mob seem normal and at the most [TS]

01:50:00   extreme end of this you can you get all [TS]

01:50:02   the way up to something like politics [TS]

01:50:03   right the most public of all public [TS]

01:50:07   people are politicians and they just [TS]

01:50:09   seem to have constant standing armies of [TS]

01:50:11   angry mobs that hate everything they do [TS]

01:50:13   right and it just seems like oh but [TS]

01:50:15   that's just part of politics and then [TS]

01:50:17   the last one on my three axes here is [TS]

01:50:21   like context versus lack of context and [TS]

01:50:24   this is my big big problem with the [TS]

01:50:26   internet is when people take like a [TS]

01:50:28   single piece of information and decide [TS]

01:50:32   everything about a person based on that [TS]

01:50:35   so like one poorly worded tweet is [TS]

01:50:39   reason enough for people to decide you [TS]

01:50:41   are a total racist or you are a total [TS]

01:50:44   sexist and then once they decide that's [TS]

01:50:47   what you are now it's okay to hound you [TS]

01:50:50   until the ends of the earth yeah because [TS]

01:50:52   i have defined you as a bad person [TS]

01:50:55   yeah if there's one thing that the [TS]

01:50:57   Internet has convinced me more and more [TS]

01:50:59   of its that there is a large segment of [TS]

01:51:03   the population that is either incapable [TS]

01:51:08   or uninterested in understanding people [TS]

01:51:14   as anything other than absolutes and [TS]

01:51:16   that to me is the most dangerous kind of [TS]

01:51:18   mob like you take one sentence and then [TS]

01:51:21   people just decide that person is evil [TS]

01:51:24   which totally justifies their behavior [TS]

01:51:26   and that links back into the thing that [TS]

01:51:29   I said before where people w enjoy a [TS]

01:51:31   beat down because they feel like they [TS]

01:51:34   are crushing badness beneath their boot [TS]

01:51:37   while also waving a flag to all of their [TS]

01:51:40   friends showing how virtuous they are [TS]

01:51:43   and that to me is like the most [TS]

01:51:45   dangerous aspect of of what makes mobs [TS]

01:51:49   more or less frightening it sounds that [TS]

01:51:52   last thing you said that great that so [TS]

01:51:53   much like two points because what I can [TS]

01:51:57   a completely agree that context is [TS]

01:51:59   it's really important you know if they [TS]

01:52:01   going back through this just a woman's [TS]

01:52:02   twitter feed and they've been a pattern [TS]

01:52:04   of comments that were not erase this [TS]

01:52:07   basically huh [TS]

01:52:08   that would that would be different 2 12 [TS]

01:52:09   way and that's really important really [TS]

01:52:11   important point to make but I feel like [TS]

01:52:13   this is a whole separate point the [TS]

01:52:15   empowering nature of social media it is [TS]

01:52:17   almost giving people too much power it's [TS]

01:52:19   becoming like a drug a drug for them [TS]

01:52:21   they're not they're not just not just [TS]

01:52:23   attacking the racist person because [TS]

01:52:25   racism is wrong [TS]

01:52:26   they're doing it to like to show off to [TS]

01:52:28   their friends so it has this as this [TS]

01:52:30   double double effect i think that's [TS]

01:52:31   separate from the the context issue [TS]

01:52:34   yeah I think you're right maybe that [TS]

01:52:35   doesn't add that doesn't exist on the [TS]

01:52:37   spectrum but that's like a it's like an [TS]

01:52:39   accelerant to every other yeah yeah it's [TS]

01:52:42   it's a we're giving a powerful weapon to [TS]

01:52:44   people and it's got the the extra [TS]

01:52:46   problem that makes people feel really [TS]

01:52:47   good to use it [TS]

01:52:48   this is slightly tangential but boy do I [TS]

01:52:51   hate the fads that Passover facebook and [TS]

01:52:54   twitter where people are supposed to be [TS]

01:52:55   changing their icon to support whatever [TS]

01:52:58   and that to me is like the purest [TS]

01:53:00   version of this kind of thing people [TS]

01:53:02   change their twitter icon to support [TS]

01:53:04   issue X or you know or to support issue [TS]

01:53:07   why and really like what if they done [TS]

01:53:09   they have done literally nothing the [TS]

01:53:11   actual thing that is occurring here is [TS]

01:53:13   that they are just wanting to signal to [TS]

01:53:16   their friends like oh look how virtuous [TS]

01:53:18   I am because I care about this thing [TS]

01:53:19   that would someone tweets are my [TS]

01:53:21   thoughts are going out to the people [TS]

01:53:22   who've lost their homes in that fire [TS]

01:53:25   someone replies to find your thoughts [TS]

01:53:27   could rebuild all the houses [TS]

01:53:28   yeah that's exactly the thing it's like [TS]

01:53:30   you want to get all of the credit for [TS]

01:53:31   being a good person but you're actually [TS]

01:53:33   doing nothing like that that like that [TS]

01:53:35   is the the purest version of this kind [TS]

01:53:39   of of thing and you know again just a [TS]

01:53:42   few of his examples in the books i think [TS]

01:53:44   the ones that I find most calling all [TS]

01:53:46   had that element of it where this person [TS]

01:53:49   is being beaten down in no small part [TS]

01:53:51   because then the crowd is able to show [TS]

01:53:55   how virtuous it is like I forget the [TS]

01:53:56   other girl who had that like dumb [TS]

01:53:59   picture of her in front of the like that [TS]

01:54:01   the soldiers like a salary at the [TS]

01:54:04   stretch right here [TS]

01:54:05   yes you taking a picture of herself in [TS]

01:54:07   front of the the sign at Arlington which [TS]

01:54:09   was asking for like quiet and respect [TS]

01:54:10   and it was a a picture of her pretending [TS]

01:54:13   to yell and flipping the finger is it's [TS]

01:54:15   a stupid picture but that has the [TS]

01:54:17   additional problem of like now everybody [TS]

01:54:19   who's on the side of like let me show [TS]

01:54:20   how virtuous I am and how much I love [TS]

01:54:22   America [TS]

01:54:23   yeah right gets to feel awesome by [TS]

01:54:25   beating down on this girl because of [TS]

01:54:27   this one picture and to put that in [TS]

01:54:29   context her and her friend had like a [TS]

01:54:31   running joke of them in front of signs [TS]

01:54:34   directly disobeying aside so smoking in [TS]

01:54:37   front of a no-smoking sign or running in [TS]

01:54:39   front of a no running side so it was [TS]

01:54:41   just the fact that the side and said be [TS]

01:54:42   quiet and respectful so they thought [TS]

01:54:45   let's pretend we're being loud and [TS]

01:54:46   disrespectful and reflect it was at [TS]

01:54:47   arlington cemetery was irrelevant to the [TS]

01:54:50   joke right then everyone thinks this is [TS]

01:54:52   a chance to show that they have much [TS]

01:54:53   more they respect you know the war [TS]

01:54:56   fallen so the mob u-joint you don't [TS]

01:54:58   normally join these mobs obviously have [TS]

01:55:00   you recently joined I'm just figuring [TS]

01:55:02   out where the fire brothers are on the [TS]

01:55:03   spectrum there they are sort of a [TS]

01:55:05   company and as far as the individual [TS]

01:55:07   people they're quite public context wise [TS]

01:55:12   my feeling on the context was when i [TS]

01:55:17   came to this story [TS]

01:55:19   I saw both videos so i do not exist in [TS]

01:55:22   this time period where there was only [TS]

01:55:23   one [TS]

01:55:24   yeah and so that to me was like I got to [TS]

01:55:26   see your thing and then I got to see [TS]

01:55:28   your clarification of this thing [TS]

01:55:30   yeah i think i have all of the context [TS]

01:55:33   did you do this [TS]

01:55:35   so all three axes they were they were [TS]

01:55:37   ready for a within you reckon [TS]

01:55:39   yeah and and and also the like the [TS]

01:55:41   virtuous thing i just want to point out [TS]

01:55:43   again as extra funny because it's like [TS]

01:55:44   that very morning I hadn't forced my own [TS]

01:55:48   trademark against somebody else so [TS]

01:55:50   there's no there's no version of this [TS]

01:55:52   where i feel like i am defending people [TS]

01:55:54   against trademarks it's like I have a [TS]

01:55:56   trademark i just used a trademark like [TS]

01:55:59   that's that's a that's not what I'm [TS]

01:56:01   feeling like we're going to defend the [TS]

01:56:02   everybody against trademarks so yeah [TS]

01:56:04   that's kind of why I like i think it's [TS]

01:56:06   it's okay and it's also why you know [TS]

01:56:09   again I think people have the right to [TS]

01:56:11   do it but like I didn't want to do a [TS]

01:56:13   video that was insulting them as [TS]

01:56:16   individuals like and there was [TS]

01:56:17   no shortage of that right like they were [TS]

01:56:20   there was no shortage of videos going [TS]

01:56:22   after them personally know this is like [TS]

01:56:25   that the tricky thing with with like [TS]

01:56:26   these public mobs it also kind of runs [TS]

01:56:28   up into issues about like what can [TS]

01:56:30   people say on the internet like how much [TS]

01:56:32   do you want to limit people's actions [TS]

01:56:33   and it's just I think that this book is [TS]

01:56:36   a really interesting book because it's [TS]

01:56:37   it shows a certain side of Internet [TS]

01:56:39   behavior but it's also just connected to [TS]

01:56:42   a lot of other things about how people [TS]

01:56:45   interact with each other and the nature [TS]

01:56:48   of public and private space and the [TS]

01:56:51   nature of shame in the modern world like [TS]

01:56:53   it's I think it's a really interesting [TS]

01:56:54   book that I think everybody should [TS]

01:56:56   should read yeah awesome didn't really [TS]

01:56:59   go there in some of those issues they [TS]

01:57:01   did he in terms of anonymity of the [TS]

01:57:03   commenters and I you know you know my [TS]

01:57:07   Bible and what you can't say all the all [TS]

01:57:10   the criminalists of some of it as well [TS]

01:57:11   like he didn't he didn't go there he [TS]

01:57:14   sort of he talked about you know is [TS]

01:57:16   wrong or right that people are doing [TS]

01:57:17   this [TS]

01:57:18   yeah but he didn't go into some of those [TS]

01:57:20   sighs finer details which may be [TS]

01:57:24   important they are definitely important [TS]

01:57:26   but I think when you're reading the book [TS]

01:57:28   you can't help but think of those things [TS]

01:57:30   even if he's not talking about them [TS]

01:57:31   explicitly and you know what [TS]

01:57:35   when I think about this I was like what [TS]

01:57:36   would you do if you were in charge of [TS]

01:57:38   society to change this and I think [TS]

01:57:40   there's like this is a incredibly [TS]

01:57:42   different or difficult question to [TS]

01:57:45   answer because it's like okay when I [TS]

01:57:48   think about the kind of mobs that I [TS]

01:57:49   don't like that seems scary that seem [TS]

01:57:51   legitimate and then you try to separate [TS]

01:57:53   them from the particulars of any [TS]

01:57:54   situation it's very hard to know if [TS]

01:57:56   there is even anything that can be done [TS]

01:57:59   about this or I mean in some ways if [TS]

01:58:03   there even is anything that should be [TS]

01:58:05   done about this because like I can't [TS]

01:58:08   think of any kind of systemic solution [TS]

01:58:12   the Dozen also then rub up against other [TS]

01:58:15   things that I also value liking people's [TS]

01:58:18   ability to express themselves on the [TS]

01:58:20   internet even if it is in ways that [TS]

01:58:22   other people feel isn't nice like I [TS]

01:58:25   think that's an important thing to have [TS]

01:58:28   and so like that's why I feel like this [TS]

01:58:30   book puts me in an inch [TS]

01:58:31   listing the pensive mood about like is [TS]

01:58:34   there's a lot here that I don't like but [TS]

01:58:35   I'm also not sure that there can be any [TS]

01:58:38   solution that isn't ultimately worse [TS]

01:58:42   than the thing that is trying to fix I [TS]

01:58:44   haven't thought about this as much as [TS]

01:58:45   you so whenever I talk about it I feel [TS]

01:58:47   like you run rings around me sort of [TS]

01:58:49   debating wise but i do think the [TS]

01:58:53   internet is changing so much for the [TS]

01:58:56   world is changing so much with the way [TS]

01:58:59   the internet is integrated into it that [TS]

01:59:01   I think things should be changed because [TS]

01:59:03   i know you're I know you're all about [TS]

01:59:05   the free speech and people expressing [TS]

01:59:07   himself and I know how empowering the [TS]

01:59:09   internet has been in that way for [TS]

01:59:10   goodness sake I mean I've been able to [TS]

01:59:12   start a whole new career expressing [TS]

01:59:15   myself on the internet and having my own [TS]

01:59:17   business and making my own films that [TS]

01:59:19   would never have happened without the [TS]

01:59:20   internet you know i'd still be working [TS]

01:59:21   at a newspaper or something if I hadn't [TS]

01:59:24   paid for the internet so I'm very [TS]

01:59:25   grateful for but the but we as we leave [TS]

01:59:28   more and more of our life on the [TS]

01:59:30   internet I think maybe we need to think [TS]

01:59:32   about whether or not we need to protect [TS]

01:59:34   people more because if it was allowed if [TS]

01:59:37   it was legal for when you were walking [TS]

01:59:40   down the street for a hundred people to [TS]

01:59:42   come up and start screaming in your face [TS]

01:59:44   or saying racist things or doing that [TS]

01:59:46   but there is a law to stop that there's [TS]

01:59:49   a law to stop people being harassed [TS]

01:59:51   but on the internet we say well this is [TS]

01:59:53   great because normally these people [TS]

01:59:55   would never get to express how they felt [TS]

01:59:56   that never get to tell Tom Cruise that [TS]

01:59:58   they think he's a [TS]

01:59:58   they think he's a [TS]

02:00:00   media or that never get to tell these [TS]

02:00:02   famous people this or that never get to [TS]

02:00:04   go to tell strangers what they think [TS]

02:00:06   they'd never get to speak their mind and [TS]

02:00:07   now they're getting a voice well that's [TS]

02:00:10   that's nice but as as we move more into [TS]

02:00:13   the internet i think the modern [TS]

02:00:16   equivalent of walking down the street is [TS]

02:00:19   becoming spending a bit of time on [TS]

02:00:21   Twitter or Facebook and if that is the [TS]

02:00:23   new walking down the straight i think we [TS]

02:00:26   should be afforded of some of the [TS]

02:00:28   protection that someone walking down the [TS]

02:00:30   street has and at the moment we don't [TS]

02:00:32   have that now the moment at the moment [TS]

02:00:35   you can get away with things on the [TS]

02:00:36   internet you would never get away with [TS]

02:00:38   face-to-face in real life with people [TS]

02:00:40   and that's fine but our lives are moving [TS]

02:00:43   onto the internet lesson we're spending [TS]

02:00:44   less time walking down the street and [TS]

02:00:46   now we're walking down the cyber [TS]

02:00:48   straight and we're having a hundred [TS]

02:00:49   people screaming their face and [TS]

02:00:51   assaulting us and it was like what's [TS]

02:00:53   different causes the internet man [TS]

02:00:54   well it's because i think it's becoming [TS]

02:00:56   less different and maybe something needs [TS]

02:00:59   to reflect that whenever you're having a [TS]

02:01:02   disagreement with someone it's always [TS]

02:01:03   good to try to find like what is the [TS]

02:01:05   fundamental point of disagreement which [TS]

02:01:07   which is not always an easy thing to do [TS]

02:01:09   and I think what you have expressed is [TS]

02:01:11   is the fundamental point of disagreement [TS]

02:01:13   between us on this topic which is the [TS]

02:01:16   thing that we've sort of talked about in [TS]

02:01:17   the podcast before and then not we've [TS]

02:01:19   had like vigorous conversation that was [TS]

02:01:20   totally cut we've talked about this [TS]

02:01:22   before my view on it is that there is a [TS]

02:01:26   difference with stuff that is online [TS]

02:01:28   versus the real world and and I think [TS]

02:01:31   that is the fundamental difference and I [TS]

02:01:33   like I'm not saying that getting [TS]

02:01:34   harassed on the internet isn't upsetting [TS]

02:01:36   but there is no doubt that behavior that [TS]

02:01:41   you would never accept in the physical [TS]

02:01:43   world is is accepted on the internet i [TS]

02:01:47   would find like cat got to like these is [TS]

02:01:51   a huge arguments about guns germs and [TS]

02:01:53   steel and like people have been calling [TS]

02:01:55   me it's like hundreds of comments and [TS]

02:01:58   like this stuff is all over the bad [TS]

02:02:01   history section of Reddit and my feeling [TS]

02:02:03   with that is like awesome i totally love [TS]

02:02:06   this kind of debating on the internet i [TS]

02:02:08   think people should be able to call me [TS]

02:02:10   an idiot and say that like I'm dumb and [TS]

02:02:12   I do [TS]

02:02:13   know what I'm talking about and then I [TS]

02:02:14   can argue with them if I want to I can [TS]

02:02:16   leave it alone i have a feeling about [TS]

02:02:19   that kind of thing that's like I am [TS]

02:02:21   happy that this can exist even when [TS]

02:02:23   people disagree with me in a very [TS]

02:02:24   vigorous sometimes super unfriendly way [TS]

02:02:27   I am happy in that world in a way that [TS]

02:02:31   like I totally agree with you if I was [TS]

02:02:33   walking down the street and hundreds of [TS]

02:02:35   people were yelling at me that i am a [TS]

02:02:37   moron that would not be so welcomed that [TS]

02:02:41   would feel incredibly threatening yeah [TS]

02:02:44   in a way that it just doesn't on the [TS]

02:02:46   internet at least not to me [TS]

02:02:47   I'm not so naive that I don't see some [TS]

02:02:49   differences but telling me that the [TS]

02:02:52   internet is different to the real world [TS]

02:02:53   is absolutely fine up until the point [TS]

02:02:57   that Justin second flies back to New [TS]

02:03:00   York and gets fired from her job because [TS]

02:03:04   a mob turn her on the internet like [TS]

02:03:06   that's not on the internet anymore man [TS]

02:03:08   she's not getting paid [TS]

02:03:09   she now she's not allowed to walk into [TS]

02:03:11   her office now that's not just on the [TS]

02:03:13   internet anymore man [TS]

02:03:14   that's why I like I find this book is [TS]

02:03:16   really sticking with me because it's I [TS]

02:03:18   don't know how we can legalize the [TS]

02:03:22   distinction because that we are both in [TS]

02:03:24   agreement and he even said before like [TS]

02:03:26   when you take someone's job away that is [TS]

02:03:30   that is the modern equivalent of [TS]

02:03:31   threatening their life you were you are [TS]

02:03:33   taking away their ability to live in a [TS]

02:03:35   world that requires them to work and [TS]

02:03:37   when you have done it in this way so [TS]

02:03:39   that their name is forever associated [TS]

02:03:41   with the thing that like nobody wants to [TS]

02:03:42   touch Justine Sacco because she's [TS]

02:03:44   radioactive not because of the thing [TS]

02:03:46   that she said but because of the [TS]

02:03:47   controversy around her you know it's [TS]

02:03:50   like an execution and so I i totally be [TS]

02:03:52   like that is awful that shouldn't happen [TS]

02:03:56   but I like I don't know like how how do [TS]

02:04:00   you systematize the difference between [TS]

02:04:03   these things like I i have a very hard [TS]

02:04:06   time thinking about like what is the [TS]

02:04:08   solution to this problem because i will [TS]

02:04:10   i am with you on this like that is too [TS]

02:04:13   far that is too much that is without a [TS]

02:04:16   doubt awful but I just don't know what [TS]

02:04:18   the answer is and I think I like I think [TS]

02:04:20   about this a lot when you made your [TS]

02:04:22   video poking fun at [TS]

02:04:24   brothers and then like a day or two [TS]

02:04:26   later you saw their subscriber count was [TS]

02:04:29   dropping which means their revenue is [TS]

02:04:31   dropping [TS]

02:04:31   admittedly it's still in the millions i [TS]

02:04:33   don't think they're gonna be on the [TS]

02:04:34   breadline [TS]

02:04:35   but when you swim resource when you saw [TS]

02:04:37   that in some tiny tiny way that the the [TS]

02:04:41   bottom line of that business that [TS]

02:04:43   employs people is being affected and you [TS]

02:04:45   were you know but yea minor contributor [TS]

02:04:48   to the mob i'm not saying it was all you [TS]

02:04:50   far from it but you played a row did you [TS]

02:04:52   think [TS]

02:04:53   yeah maybe maybe I should maybe I [TS]

02:04:56   shouldn't or do you think [TS]

02:04:57   fair enough you know you do the crime [TS]

02:04:59   you do the time well those those are two [TS]

02:05:01   different things a question about maybe [TS]

02:05:02   I shouldn't have versus do they deserve [TS]

02:05:04   this [TS]

02:05:05   who would make those videos again doing [TS]

02:05:08   what I was doing like I would make them [TS]

02:05:09   again like I think it's totally fine to [TS]

02:05:11   criticize public companies for doing [TS]

02:05:12   dumb things and also again [TS]

02:05:15   the company is not taking away like an [TS]

02:05:17   individuals living in the same way the [TS]

02:05:20   fine brothers things even though i don't [TS]

02:05:21   like the let's focus on people [TS]

02:05:23   unsubscribing like that starts to make [TS]

02:05:24   me feel uncomfortable [TS]

02:05:26   I think you can make it pretty good [TS]

02:05:27   argument that is not that different from [TS]

02:05:29   a boycott I don't have any problem with [TS]

02:05:31   people boycotting companies whose [TS]

02:05:33   policies they don't agree with this just [TS]

02:05:35   happens to be like a super internet e [TS]

02:05:37   super public way of making this very [TS]

02:05:39   clear but there's no way I would be like [TS]

02:05:41   oh man if there's some company that you [TS]

02:05:43   don't like and you want to