Hello Internet

The Shortlist (BONUS EPISODE)


00:00:00   what are we doing here didn't we just put out a show this is crazy [TS]

00:00:04   a podcast famous for its long and sometimes unpredictable gaps and we're [TS]

00:00:09   back already what's going on do you've any idea where spontaneous guys like [TS]

00:00:13   people cannot put us in a slot you don't know what we're going to do we could put [TS]

00:00:18   the south and there could be another one ten seconds afterwards you don't know [TS]

00:00:21   what we're going to do a crazy guys when the idea of this project first came up [TS]

00:00:25   one of the things that attracted me to it was the very notion of releasing so [TS]

00:00:30   shortly after I mean podcast has gone up like this is going to mess with all of [TS]

00:00:34   those charged that people like to make about hello Internet upload frequency I [TS]

00:00:38   can't remember being as excited about one of our podcasts as I am about this [TS]

00:00:43   one I am quite giddy so should I tell the people what we're doing yet this is [TS]

00:00:47   this is this is a one topic show this one isn't this is like this year we're [TS]

00:00:52   here for one thing and one thing only here for one thing and that is a flag [TS]

00:00:59   referendum yet our flag referendum for the hello Internet podcast the hello [TS]

00:01:05   Internet flag referendum this is is it a referendum greg is in a referendum about [TS]

00:01:09   changing our constitution is that a voter referendum were calling it a [TS]

00:01:13   referendum because I think in no small part we're trying to show New Zealand [TS]

00:01:18   how it's done after weeks and weeks if not months of commenting on the New [TS]

00:01:23   Zealand flag referendum we're putting our money where our mouth is and saying [TS]

00:01:27   this is how you do it my friends we decided to take matters into our own [TS]

00:01:32   hand show New Zealand how it's done and hold the flag referendum for our podcast [TS]

00:01:39   this is i mean this says a lot about the esteem in which we hold flags because [TS]

00:01:44   people familiar with the podcast but obviously be aware after the rice rat [TS]

00:01:50   and swamp in fiasco [TS]

00:01:52   that pretty much the official appointing of anything with the podcast is me doing [TS]

00:01:57   on a whim and you just not resisting enough right but when it comes to a flag [TS]

00:02:03   is like there's no there's no brady going off on his own and just doing here [TS]

00:02:06   this is serious business now we have been working on this together possibly [TS]

00:02:13   too much because we are both men who do things her own way and our particular [TS]

00:02:20   and control freak curry in our own ways and so we have come together to try to [TS]

00:02:25   figure out how to make this referendum happen but there has been much [TS]

00:02:29   discussion of details we even had an in-person meeting discussing today has [TS]

00:02:35   been a lot of preparation for what is ultimately going to be a very short show [TS]

00:02:39   wouldn't count on having a short show the thing I think I would love to have [TS]

00:02:45   been in the booth next to us at that pub last night in London over overhearing [TS]

00:02:49   the conversation we were just going into incredible detail about how the voting [TS]

00:02:53   is gonna wear what flags we should and shouldn't choose and why [TS]

00:02:57   crazy crazy so to catch people up on things [TS]

00:03:03   several episodes back back in the early thirties about episodes we called for [TS]

00:03:10   people to submit hello Internet flag designs and so what we have done finally [TS]

00:03:18   as we approach our 50th episode is sort through all of the submitted flags and [TS]

00:03:25   we have kicked out five designs for possible flags for the show this is like [TS]

00:03:34   a short list basically we learned the lesson that what we're not going to do [TS]

00:03:38   is create a long list to show everybody to have them talk about stuff and then [TS]

00:03:44   arbitrarily pick a short list that's not the way to do it we're skipping straight [TS]

00:03:48   to the shortlist of five flags for people to vote on to help select our [TS]

00:03:55   podcast lag this still quite a bit of danger here we are putting an X on the [TS]

00:03:59   block because when the New Zealand committee [TS]

00:04:02   the committee as we call them right released their shortlist that we got [TS]

00:04:07   stuck into them and said you had one job it was pretty easy put together a good [TS]

00:04:11   short list and let us have a vote and we said they mustered up and now we're now [TS]

00:04:16   we're putting out a short list and if people don't like a shortlist [TS]

00:04:20   well we can look pretty silly I think we have done an excellent job and in our [TS]

00:04:26   assessment of ourself it's quite high on what one on the short list that we put [TS]

00:04:29   together I have to say has given me a little bit of extra sympathy for the New [TS]

00:04:34   Zealand committee though because you suddenly start second-guessing and [TS]

00:04:40   putting yourself in a lot of people's minds and a lot of people shoes and you [TS]

00:04:44   start thinking quite tactically and if we give them this option is there a [TS]

00:04:47   danger they might do this and you do sort of even though it's supposed to be [TS]

00:04:51   sort of semi democratic you do start kind of manipulated with you shortly [TS]

00:04:58   well that's exactly what the shortlist is because if we just ask people to vote [TS]

00:05:04   up vote down on the flags in that thread we would have gotten one of those [TS]

00:05:07   horrible comic sans blue flags with the hello Internet logo that looks like a [TS]

00:05:14   state flag that's what people would do if you just let them if you just let [TS]

00:05:17   them run crazy so when the shortlisting process one of our criteria was it has [TS]

00:05:22   to be a flag that if it wins we would be fine with this as the hello Internet [TS]

00:05:27   flag you can't run the risk of putting in a joke flag because guaranteed that's [TS]

00:05:32   what everybody gets attracted to is the joke option so we were basically trying [TS]

00:05:36   to stop the rebel rose as before they browse some rebel exactly there will be [TS]

00:05:41   no rabble-rousing here this is serious business [TS]

00:05:44   this is flags now before we get to the short list and that's obviously going to [TS]

00:05:49   be quiet conversation and I can I can already sense the anticipation in the [TS]

00:05:53   air waves but before we get to that the other thing we've done and I think to [TS]

00:05:58   minimize rabble-rousing is the voting process itself this is this is quite [TS]

00:06:04   something [TS]

00:06:05   we have had many conversations about how do you try to hold an election on the [TS]

00:06:11   internet just as two guys that we don't have voting machines or anything for [TS]

00:06:17   people to use and we went back and forth about precisely what to do do we set up [TS]

00:06:23   an online poll do we have a reddit thread they were very very many options [TS]

00:06:28   but what we have settled on as think the best choice for this and also to be [TS]

00:06:35   honest the most fun choice is we are going to have people physically send us [TS]

00:06:41   postcards as the ballots for the flags us a post-election it is a post-election [TS]

00:06:48   yes even though I mightily complain about votes that have to be done by post [TS]

00:06:53   or in person and why can't they be done on my iPhone I have not going to have [TS]

00:06:57   this election on an iPhone we're going to do it with postcards it's about [TS]

00:07:02   election at the post and I can I just point out by the way that you with a [TS]

00:07:07   main advocate of this wasn't this wasn't old school Brady sort of convincing [TS]

00:07:11   growing technology you mister you know when will everyone get with the PA [TS]

00:07:16   system and get with the program and have electronic voting you were Mr no I [TS]

00:07:20   wanted to outscore I want postcards I want snail mail oh yeah yeah a couple [TS]

00:07:26   times in in the setup process for this I felt like we were arguing what should [TS]

00:07:30   have been the stereotypical other person's position but I totally admit I [TS]

00:07:37   like the idea of the postal vote and I feel I feel charmed at the notion of [TS]

00:07:42   people going out and selecting a postcard to use as their ballot I like [TS]

00:07:47   this idea I feel that it's it's a romantic idea most I feel like I'm [TS]

00:07:52   rubbing off on you a bit no [TS]

00:07:59   I'm just in a really good mood because of the flags okay so we're gonna talk [TS]

00:08:06   what was your main reason for choosing a post-election was at the charm of the [TS]

00:08:12   post or was it [TS]

00:08:13   preventing voter fraud see I don't know if we should even discussed the [TS]

00:08:17   possibility of voter fraud but she has already this is already tipping over [TS]

00:08:24   into rebel rousing territory but my feeling was it is very very hard to [TS]

00:08:31   again just as to normal dudes who don't say have officially issued idea to all [TS]

00:08:38   of our listeners are anything like this it's very hard to coordinate an online [TS]

00:08:42   poll that has any kind of meaning and as someone who spends a lot of time on the [TS]

00:08:47   internet there is a sizable contingent of people who delight in nothing more [TS]

00:08:52   than screwing with anybody's online polls so it's just sounded really well I [TS]

00:09:01   was revving up when you buy the S III thoughts we're not going to be able to [TS]

00:09:10   hold a secure online election not even not even close so I won't even try and [TS]

00:09:16   so I figure that the postcard is just enough friction that people who want to [TS]

00:09:22   mess around with the vote you know what if you're going to try to send us a [TS]

00:09:26   thousand postcards it's a lot more work than trying to just fake vote thousand [TS]

00:09:30   times on a website so this is a vote fraud minimization technique in addition [TS]

00:09:36   to a totally charming technique I know I really I'm really excited by where the [TS]

00:09:41   postcards gonna come from and what pictures people are going to choose as [TS]

00:09:44   the sort of the face of their postcard I mean that's irrelevant to the election [TS]

00:09:48   but that's going to be really fun [TS]

00:09:50   that is going to be fun and we have also decided that at some point you and I are [TS]

00:09:56   going to get together in person to actually count up all of the balance now [TS]

00:10:02   gray everyone knows how much you love elections and how interested you are in [TS]

00:10:06   voting theory and things like that I do love a good election to finally holding [TS]

00:10:11   one everyone's gonna wanna know what voting method did mister voting method [TS]

00:10:18   choose well actually decided that we should probably just use first past the [TS]

00:10:25   post for this election because it's the simplest everyone can understand first [TS]

00:10:31   past the post [TS]

00:10:32   people just pick your favorite and that's that's all you need to do is just [TS]

00:10:36   one simple thing that's it no of course not [TS]

00:10:42   of course not we're doing doing first past the post is not a chance to enforce [TS]

00:10:46   it is the worst himself for so many reasons I will put a million links in [TS]

00:10:52   the show notes as to why first past the post is awful but know they were there [TS]

00:10:57   were two options there were two options that are the only reasonable options one [TS]

00:11:02   of which is approval voting and the other one is an instant runoff voting [TS]

00:11:07   and I debated its I was judging the merits of simplicity in voting vs [TS]

00:11:13   simplicity and counting [TS]

00:11:15   versus the ability to rank in to order preference as opposed to just expressing [TS]

00:11:20   preference in the end I decided that we're going to do an instance runoff [TS]

00:11:26   vote or as people in the UK will be familiar with it the Alternative Vote so [TS]

00:11:31   what people are going to do when they vote is they will be able to rank their [TS]

00:11:37   favorite flag to their least favorite flag on the ballot that they send in ok [TS]

00:11:43   so there are gonna be five flags and a chance got a name [TS]

00:11:49   and we'll be revealing though so so when people go to the back of their postcard [TS]

00:11:54   and and rank these will talk more about that soon do they have to write five [TS]

00:12:00   names or to the right to the right one name how many names to their out what [TS]

00:12:04   are you asking them to do so this is the beauty of a well-run Alternative Vote [TS]

00:12:10   unlike some countries that we could mention that require you to write down [TS]

00:12:15   absolutely everything we're going to do it the right way if there's only one [TS]

00:12:20   flag that you like you can just write down number one and that flag name and [TS]

00:12:25   that's it you're done you don't have to do anything else if there are three [TS]

00:12:29   flags that you like you can write down [TS]

00:12:32   number one the flag name then on the next line number to the flag named next [TS]

00:12:38   line 32 flag name and then you can stop when you don't care anymore you don't [TS]

00:12:44   have to keep cranking them if you are some kind of completion is nerd you can [TS]

00:12:49   indeed write down the names of all five flags in the order that you like them [TS]

00:12:54   and then you can feel as though you have reached the completion achievement if [TS]

00:13:01   you want to do that that's perfectly fine of course the real nerds will [TS]

00:13:05   recognize that you only need to write down 42 expressed complete preferences [TS]

00:13:09   but I'll leave that up to the listener about what they want to do [TS]

00:13:12   bottom line you rank as many as you like you don't have to rank all of them but [TS]

00:13:18   we do want on the postcard and we're going to reiterate it later and there's [TS]

00:13:22   also going to be a link to instructions that you're going to need to take a look [TS]

00:13:25   at it's going to be one flag name on a line so that it is easy for us to count [TS]

00:13:33   the right number one and then the flag name and then think about it as though [TS]

00:13:38   you were typing on a computer you going to press return and start another line [TS]

00:13:42   and right number two and that flag name and so on that is what's going to count [TS]

00:13:48   as a valid unspoiled vote but link in the show notes that you can go check out [TS]

00:13:55   for the descriptions of how that's going to happen I do have to say great maybe [TS]

00:13:59   this says a lot about a jobs in [TS]

00:14:01   just the number of people we get exposed to we seem to be spending a lot of time [TS]

00:14:06   thinking and talking about ways to make this idiot proof idiot proof is such a [TS]

00:14:11   harsh way to phrase it that way I'm thinking of it is how can we maximize [TS]

00:14:17   the number of understandable non spoiled ballots that we receive I have [TS]

00:14:24   definitely learned that it is surprisingly hard to give instructions [TS]

00:14:28   to a group especially as we are right now [TS]

00:14:32   a very large group and have those instructions received in the way that [TS]

00:14:37   you expect as always we have been we have been thinking about the way to make [TS]

00:14:42   this as easy as possible and without a doubt going the postcard method as [TS]

00:14:48   opposed to some of the other things we were thinking about definitely makes it [TS]

00:14:52   a little bit harder we're sacrificing some some ease for the charm of of [TS]

00:14:58   postcards which is one of the reasons why I'm trying to emphasize one name per [TS]

00:15:04   line and look at the instructions to try to make it as as clear as possible but [TS]

00:15:10   as we were discussing last night we definitely have a little bit more [TS]

00:15:14   sympathy not just for the New Zealand flag commission but also for anyone [TS]

00:15:19   anywhere who has ever tried to run an election because as soon as you start [TS]

00:15:25   thinking about what could people do to possibly mess this up you realize people [TS]

00:15:31   will always be able to think of things that did not occur to you that will mess [TS]

00:15:34   it up it's amazing isn't it and I'm sure we'll talk about a short sorts of things [TS]

00:15:39   like we've been thinking about that the names of the flags making making sure [TS]

00:15:42   they're sort of fair and dummy proof and almost any topic we think of straight [TS]

00:15:49   away like hang on people are gonna mess this up [TS]

00:15:53   paper this is gonna not work for how many different versions of the names of [TS]

00:15:57   the various flags do you think we have been through [TS]

00:15:59   pretty pretty sad so the shortlisting process here this has happened has been [TS]

00:16:09   rather ad hoc and mostly be done via text messaging it saves but how would [TS]

00:16:14   you say we've come up with this shortlist of 5 I'm not sure that we had [TS]

00:16:17   official criteria but I was I was looking for something going through the [TS]

00:16:23   thread of a flag that I felt somehow expressed hello internet you can look at [TS]

00:16:31   that flag and feel yeah yeah this is hello internet e in its own way that was [TS]

00:16:37   my main thing when I was looking through the various designs of trying to pick [TS]

00:16:42   out stuff that matched it would also have to be a flag that was acceptable to [TS]

00:16:47   both you and me which was not always easy to do but this has been a [TS]

00:16:53   surprisingly collaborative process because my list was remarkably short in [TS]

00:16:59   the beginning [TS]

00:17:00   well actually it was two and then I would say that you you brady you opened [TS]

00:17:05   my eyes and our in-person meeting to other options that I had just dismissed [TS]

00:17:11   but then I thought no you're right you're right these deserve to be in our [TS]

00:17:16   referendum these are totally valid hello Internet flag options in about an hour [TS]

00:17:20   ago the list was seven and then we just chopped down to five but we we let a [TS]

00:17:28   couple go with some regret what was he thinking that you thought seven was too [TS]

00:17:31   many you didn't like a couple of them seven was too many because we're [TS]

00:17:37   slightly doing this just like the New Zealand flag referendum although we must [TS]

00:17:41   say here in advance that we have chosen are five and we will not negotiate with [TS]

00:17:46   flag designed terrorists who came up with additional flags to try to get on a [TS]

00:17:50   referendum at the last minute what if someone comes up with a really good when [TS]

00:17:54   we have chosen our flags these are going to stick with we went with five we did [TS]

00:18:00   have seven and when I was looking at the list there were two that I did have [TS]

00:18:06   slightly uncertain feelings toward I asked you if you had to get rid of two [TS]

00:18:11   which would you pick [TS]

00:18:12   and you pick the same to you that I had on my mind and so I thought ok perfect [TS]

00:18:15   this reconfirms that is well off those to go now we have five matches New [TS]

00:18:20   Zealand's perfect we can get on with our flag referendum that great before we [TS]

00:18:25   reveal the five men and talk about them what's a policy going to be in terms of [TS]

00:18:30   expressing a preferences my gut reaction is that we should not express the way [TS]

00:18:39   that we intend to vote I think our personalities are too strong and two [TS]

00:18:45   greats that we could influence the voters too much and the whole reason for [TS]

00:18:51   having a referendum like this is that we also genuinely want to flag that the [TS]

00:18:56   greater hello Internet community will also be happy with ya so this isn't just [TS]

00:19:00   about you and me it's about all of us dear listeners and by the way we say [TS]

00:19:05   influence the voters were not necessarily saying that you're gonna [TS]

00:19:08   vote the one we were in fact the opposite yeah I was gonna say that out [TS]

00:19:13   loud but I'm also aware that entirely out of spite people could decide to vote [TS]

00:19:17   in a different way so we're going to discuss them we have some thoughts on [TS]

00:19:21   each of the flags but we are not going to express what our ranked preferences [TS]

00:19:26   are although I will be voting in our own reference yeah and we will be sending a [TS]

00:19:30   postcard to send a postcard that's how you have to do it you have to send a [TS]

00:19:35   postcard to you can't just add it to the pile in your house ok now and also don't [TS]

00:19:43   think you know which one we liked by what we say there could be a double [TS]

00:19:46   bluffing going on here we're both very clever people who now we are so cane for [TS]

00:19:52   this to be done by us that we even going to reveal them and then reveal them on [TS]

00:19:56   the website in a random order yes I believe you in front of you have a [TS]

00:20:03   some very loud there we go I have post yes you have a series of marbles one for [TS]

00:20:11   you to the five flags that you are going to drive around on the go [TS]

00:20:15   yes we can all hear Brady and the order that you draw them in is going to [TS]

00:20:22   obviously determine the order that we discuss them in now because we didn't [TS]

00:20:25   want to buy anything and it's also going to determine the order that they appear [TS]

00:20:30   on the website because I have no ability to make them appear in a random order [TS]

00:20:35   what's the code when someone gets the ballot paper and just takes them in [TS]

00:20:40   order to donkey voters and I don't know this phrase I believe that saddam maybe [TS]

00:20:46   we should check out this check out to a bit of on the spot research I think if [TS]

00:20:50   there's a ballot paper and someone just walked in the post and does the mall in [TS]

00:20:53   order 12345 just so they can leave the boat and say they voted that's what [TS]

00:20:58   advantage to be on top of the ballot and I think the voters a well-designed if [TS]

00:21:04   like if you're doing it for a government bridges doing our flag referendum here [TS]

00:21:08   but if say you are in charge of a government and you don't have a method [TS]

00:21:12   to randomize the appearance of the candidate names being at the top of the [TS]

00:21:17   list has a surprisingly big advantage to give you a viewer if your local [TS]

00:21:22   municipal government is running an election and they're just putting the [TS]

00:21:25   names on the end of the list in alphabetical order it is intrinsically a [TS]

00:21:28   biased election obviously that's not gonna happen with us cause we haven't [TS]

00:21:31   got printed out ballot papers they will be appearing on the web site in order [TS]

00:21:36   but you still need to write stuff down so I'm hoping that our random selection [TS]

00:21:40   already down a little bit like a great I have selected the first model was the [TS]

00:21:46   first like they were going to the flag we're going to talk about is wait wait [TS]

00:21:52   before we discuss the candidates in be hello Internet flag referendum I want to [TS]

00:21:57   give special thanks to Harry's dot com for making the flag referendum possible [TS]

00:22:02   seriously hello Internet listeners lets show harry's dot com some love [TS]

00:22:06   if you've been hearing us do these ads for a while and you're on the edge about [TS]

00:22:10   whether or not you're going to give harry's a try this is the episode to do [TS]

00:22:15   it [TS]

00:22:16   go to Harry's dot com use the offer code each high and try them out today and if [TS]

00:22:22   not for yourself [TS]

00:22:23   think about Harry's as a gift for the holidays are coming up around the corner [TS]

00:22:27   among the website right now and i'm looking at the various products that [TS]

00:22:30   they have and I like the look of the Winston set there's almost certainly a [TS]

00:22:34   man in your life would be very happy to receive the Winston set as a fancy [TS]

00:22:39   looking gift this Christmas you get a metallic looking [TS]

00:22:42   razor blade handle you get their foaming shave gel or shave cream whichever you [TS]

00:22:47   prefer I love the little logo that they have on their reserve box and you know [TS]

00:22:52   the story about Harry's they're making their own blades in their German razor [TS]

00:22:57   factory that they bought they controlled the process from start to finish so that [TS]

00:23:02   they can make high-quality products for you at a reasonable cost what more could [TS]

00:23:07   you want to once again if you've been thinking about Harry's now is the time [TS]

00:23:12   to act for yourself or someone you care about [TS]

00:23:15   go to Harry's dot com and use the promo code each high so they know that you [TS]

00:23:21   came from our show from our flag referendum if enough people sign up in [TS]

00:23:25   the next few days and get $5 off your first purchase to Winston said that I [TS]

00:23:31   mentioned before is 25 bucks so that gets down to 20 bucks and they have a [TS]

00:23:35   truman set where you can select multiple colors if there's somebody fancy in your [TS]

00:23:40   life who would love a razor blade with an orange handle that was just 15 bucks [TS]

00:23:44   you get it down to 10 it's really quite the deal and when you're happy with [TS]

00:23:48   Harry's you'll never have to worry about shaving ever again just get the razors [TS]

00:23:53   shipped to your door automatically never worry about it go to Harry's dot com [TS]

00:23:58   Promo Code each the first flagg we're going to talk about his club and close [TS]

00:24:07   club and claus is a design a bit of a collaborative design on the reddit a [TS]

00:24:14   couple of these files were modifications of other people's versions but we have [TS]

00:24:18   from the red it was Chris writes music and LA's worried her missed did this [TS]

00:24:27   design together the club in cause I would describe as a light gray [TS]

00:24:32   background there is a darker gray central image which is a circle behind [TS]

00:24:41   it going in one direction like crossing each other there is a caveman club going [TS]

00:24:48   in the other direction there are two little robot arms and in the very center [TS]

00:24:53   of this gray circle there is a white podcast microphone of course there will [TS]

00:25:00   be a picture in the show notes as well because it is almost impossible to [TS]

00:25:02   describe something like this out loud but this is the club in cloth design [TS]

00:25:08   what are your thoughts on everything I like all of them I really like it [TS]

00:25:13   of course I would say it is the most is one of the most sort of logo like it's [TS]

00:25:21   like it's not a traditional flag it's not something you would have seen flying [TS]

00:25:26   in the seventeen hundreds that's for sure it has a modern look but that's [TS]

00:25:31   nothing wrong with i mean we're a modern podcast we are so there's nothing wrong [TS]

00:25:37   with expressing that modernity I mean I'm assuming the club the caveman club [TS]

00:25:42   is supposed to represent me for some reason I think that's fair assessment [TS]

00:25:45   and the robotic are supposed to represent year I mean I think of same [TS]

00:25:50   story many many submitted designs was the the perceived difference in a [TS]

00:25:55   personalities and received you say it as though it's not really receiving a [TS]

00:26:02   difference in their personalities but really we're almost exactly the same yes [TS]

00:26:06   so sorry it reflects that really nicely and the way they're crossed his got that [TS]

00:26:12   nice old-fashioned feel and the modern market having the microphone i think is [TS]

00:26:17   a nice touch it [TS]

00:26:18   perhaps better than any other candidate represents that we are a podcast [TS]

00:26:22   certainly the other flags to my mind don't do that as strongly as this [TS]

00:26:27   microphone image great I think people are gonna pretty quickly [TS]

00:26:34   expect great to be in a lot of these designs because what caused your name is [TS]

00:26:37   great but also it's there it's the color of all our branding on our website and [TS]

00:26:40   our logo and everything so it's official color of her into it is the official [TS]

00:26:44   color really is the official color of lol yeah even I cannot secretly [TS]

00:26:48   chartreuse or anything so so yeah it's it's it's it's really cold it's really [TS]

00:26:56   cool like 05 I'd be really happy that one it's it's got a lot of really useful [TS]

00:27:02   really useful design what are your thoughts on yeah it's an interesting [TS]

00:27:06   it's an interesting flag to me something about it captures the feeling of hello [TS]

00:27:14   internet there's something about the way that it is drawn that is friendly is the [TS]

00:27:19   way I would describe it but you are also right in that it is almost logo like [TS]

00:27:26   almost crashed like and of the options that I am looking at before me right now [TS]

00:27:34   because I have all five on my screen at this moment it is probably one of the [TS]

00:27:38   two least flag looking like flags at a glance might be the way that I would [TS]

00:27:44   think about it so I think it is it is an interesting is interesting choice as it [TS]

00:27:49   goes without saying all of these flags we like and all of these flags we would [TS]

00:27:54   be happy to have as our hello Internet flag we're just discussing the things [TS]

00:27:58   that make the flags unique or that capture our attention about these flags [TS]

00:28:03   ready for another one another and randomly choosing the next one we're [TS]

00:28:13   going to speak about is white cross white cross and this was when we had [TS]

00:28:19   quite a bit of debate about what to name as well but we seem to have settled on [TS]

00:28:23   white cross cuz I just said and that's how we actually had 100% settled on what [TS]

00:28:28   the name should be but you just ran with it [TS]

00:28:31   yeah and there's no fixing that an editing now and what cross was my choice [TS]

00:28:35   so I have abused my position as a mile below their fair enough [TS]

00:28:40   with great power comes great responsibility that you're happy to [TS]

00:28:44   abuse and that's what is white cross well do you want to describe it because [TS]

00:28:48   we even have a disagreement about how it should be described white cross is a [TS]

00:28:53   black flag is very simple just plain black and then it has a white design in [TS]

00:28:59   the middle and that what design could be best described as a cross obviously but [TS]

00:29:06   both sticks of the cross for lack of a better term have sort of seraphs on the [TS]

00:29:13   end they look like to capitalize crossed over each other but of course a capital [TS]

00:29:19   I turned on its side does bear a striking similarity to the letter H so I [TS]

00:29:27   think one could easily see an H if that was the way they would chose choosing to [TS]

00:29:32   look at the flag but it's not obvious it's not an obvious hii it would only [TS]

00:29:37   say hii to someone I think he was looking for [TS]

00:29:40   otherwise you just think it was sort of an old fashioned I cross it's definitely [TS]

00:29:45   the most old-fashioned of the designs we have oh yeah without a doubt it's easy [TS]

00:29:49   to miss the age I it does look like a much more old-fashioned d symbol and the [TS]

00:29:56   creator of this design muscled pancakes explicitly said that it is designed to [TS]

00:30:02   be Herald directly informed periodically [TS]

00:30:07   character from the field of heraldry from the field of heraldry [TS]

00:30:14   I would go with my use [TS]

00:30:16   it'll just be competent and don't apologize for my mouth was not even able [TS]

00:30:20   to make sounds good approximate what this word would be stumbled upon it but [TS]

00:30:24   from the from the field of help heraldry is exactly right that that's what it [TS]

00:30:28   looks like I almost like you could see this design on a night shield who was [TS]

00:30:35   about to do some jousting it would not look out of place [TS]

00:30:38   definitely definitely yeah it's very it's the sort of Game of Thrones [TS]

00:30:43   what's the risk of womanhood pancake said that they read some more that [TS]

00:30:48   muscle tank acts like their big words don't know it a base the laws of [TS]

00:30:52   tincture and maybe blaze and for any English learners out there [TS]

00:30:58   sable across potent elongated fest wires argent well done they're pretty well [TS]

00:31:04   done thank you I'm sure the players in the field of heraldry will know exactly [TS]

00:31:10   what this means I won't even have to look at the show notes they will just [TS]

00:31:13   immediately have the image appear in their mind so I mean this obviously is a [TS]

00:31:19   little bit New Zealand 80 cuz its black with a white image so in keeping with [TS]

00:31:23   the times it is in keeping with the times but as always you can't think of [TS]

00:31:28   current events when selecting a flag that may last far far into the future [TS]

00:31:34   far beyond either of us Brady but I think that this is a flag design that [TS]

00:31:40   can definitely stand the test of time and it I think it's also an interesting [TS]

00:31:45   choice because in some ways it is one of the least hello internet looking flags [TS]

00:31:52   just at a glance [TS]

00:31:54   because of the black color and because of the cross in the center but I like [TS]

00:31:59   the subtleties of thi and I think in a flag referendum like this it is [TS]

00:32:04   definitely good to have a choice that is more different from the other flags yeah [TS]

00:32:12   it's interesting in that it doesn't use great as well I wonder will help or [TS]

00:32:17   hinder yeah that's what makes it stand out is that is it does not have a gray [TS]

00:32:21   background I mean I can imagine the New Zealand committee would have given [TS]

00:32:25   people two options with this a black one and a great one definitely a black one [TS]

00:32:29   definitely a great one without a doubt that would be in there by the way if you [TS]

00:32:33   send in your vote and say I vote for white cross but I want to have a great [TS]

00:32:38   background that is and now vote your vote yes you have spoiled your ballot [TS]

00:32:44   yet say it's the black background or nothing that's what you're getting [TS]

00:32:49   people like a right do you want to pick another flag for speeding I'm loving [TS]

00:32:56   this I'm loving this pulling pulling these models as my favorite I think you [TS]

00:33:03   just your reveling in the power [TS]

00:33:06   next is this is one that great and I have decided to co leggy flag [TS]

00:33:14   I'm not gonna lie flag flag as far as names go is my favorite [TS]

00:33:21   just think it's funny because something you fly a flag as listener might be [TS]

00:33:26   imagining flag flag is the flag that most looks like a flag no one would ever [TS]

00:33:34   look at this and think Oh what is that thing everyone would know that it is a [TS]

00:33:38   flag now it is a bit of a variant on a traditional tricolor flag but here here [TS]

00:33:47   is what the designer has done trick allure of you on a sounder posh tickler [TS]

00:33:51   is that some people say oh wait a min you just sayin tri-color in a fancy way [TS]

00:33:57   now I don't accept that now I don't know I don't accept that I'm hard as nails [TS]

00:34:02   and push you hard as nails and you're very posh [TS]

00:34:06   Bipasha some pushes a nice cushion [TS]

00:34:09   look at how does niacin pushes cushions and I hope that one follows you around [TS]

00:34:20   anyone who knows me knows I'm not push all rights the tricolour flag designed [TS]

00:34:29   by THP 44 [TS]

00:34:32   if we're thinking of dividing the flag vertically in half the right half of [TS]

00:34:39   that flag is the traditional hello internet great color now the left half [TS]

00:34:46   has been vertically divided into again so that there is a black vertical stripe [TS]

00:34:54   and a white vertical stripe that are taking up the other 50% of the flag so [TS]

00:34:59   sad that right away I find most tricolor flags just deathly boring but I think [TS]

00:35:05   the little bit of asymmetry here with the vertical tri-color this helps this [TS]

00:35:09   design quite a lot [TS]

00:35:11   whereas it was a regular tri-color I would just fall asleep simply looking at [TS]

00:35:15   it so I think there's this little design element really helps and where this flag [TS]

00:35:20   comes from is that the designer is basing this off of the line from hello [TS]

00:35:25   Internet episode 38 where you finish the show by saying that i speaking is your [TS]

00:35:32   brady and a black-and-white kind of guy and you my friend are gray so that is [TS]

00:35:38   the design for this flag say the left hand side the black and white side is [TS]

00:35:44   his may remember the right hand side which is all gray his grave another way [TS]

00:35:50   to describe this would be just to say as we go from left to right the first 25 [TS]

00:35:55   percent is black [TS]

00:35:56   the second 25% is white and the final 50 percent is great that is not the way I [TS]

00:36:02   would have described it and it's no I know it's not you chose a very [TS]

00:36:05   convoluted way described you went from right to left and then you started [TS]

00:36:08   splitting things into it you would do it also the rubbish I was just doing a [TS]

00:36:12   series of two bisexual but I I like this I like this flag simply because it's [TS]

00:36:20   sort it sort of the the two of us but also I think almost everything that we [TS]

00:36:25   discuss in this show sometimes one of us is wishy washy and isn't going with [TS]

00:36:30   something and sometimes the other person has a very harsh opinion that they will [TS]

00:36:34   not be budged on so I think there is definitely something hello internet [TS]

00:36:38   about this flag and this design even if it is the most flag of the flags also [TS]

00:36:46   the the white vertical stripe which is sort of going down the middle but [TS]

00:36:51   obviously is a bit off-center does look likely I internet so it also it's it's [TS]

00:36:56   sort of looks a little bit like a logo and branding as well so has actually [TS]

00:37:03   definitely does next time let's let's pick the fourth of the five sound [TS]

00:37:13   effects and affects their guys next we are talking about this one is code hii [TS]

00:37:24   logo in many ways this is the news the existing New Zealand flag of a [TS]

00:37:32   referendum it's the one you would have expected established look it's kind of [TS]

00:37:37   what we are already it's the incumbent if we did have a flag here's how you can [TS]

00:37:42   best imagine this flak [TS]

00:37:44   take a look at your podcast player right now and look at our logo and then [TS]

00:37:49   imagine that logo just on a slightly larger field of gravy turns it into a [TS]

00:37:54   rectangle yeah the established logo flag and you're right it is the Contender [TS]

00:38:01   that everybody already knows it is our logo on a gray background yes I say the [TS]

00:38:07   square of a logo is made a bit smaller so it nestles a bit more nicely inside [TS]

00:38:12   the gray of the rectangular flag thought I mean obviously you like it cuz we used [TS]

00:38:18   your the designer of this I you know I never I never once you and everyone to [TS]

00:38:22   bias and election but yes I am the designer of the hello Internet logo and [TS]

00:38:29   I spent a number of hours that I never want to describe trying to get all the [TS]

00:38:33   little dots to match up in a way that I found a statically pleasing that also [TS]

00:38:37   matches up with the H in the eye in a way that nobody ever notices are [TS]

00:38:41   comments on it but I know is there and so I appreciate that but yes without a [TS]

00:38:45   doubt I would say that this is this is the New Zealand flag of our referendum [TS]

00:38:51   is interesting and an early draft of this when we were gonna flag guys put it [TS]

00:38:56   into this referendum you initially had the HRI in the middle of a great leg and [TS]

00:39:02   sort of the dots around the edge of the flag and also said you know it's going [TS]

00:39:05   to be the square and put a centralized it oh yeah this is this is another case [TS]

00:39:09   of where we we had even in the flag selections we had very many things that [TS]

00:39:15   we were messing around with the other problem that I ran into with flag izing [TS]

00:39:20   the hello Internet logo is of course there is an extraordinarily subtle [TS]

00:39:26   gradient on our actual actual logo and gradients are just verboten on a flag [TS]

00:39:32   you cannot have a gradient on a flag if we were say ever to print the flags you [TS]

00:39:38   cannot possibly try to print something with a gradient so I had to spend a [TS]

00:39:42   little while trying to pick the exact right color of grades you be the [TS]

00:39:47   monotone a background for flag [TS]

00:39:50   yeah there's a lot involved in this referendum people I know it I know it [TS]

00:39:54   sounds because we're so professional and just so smooth like this is just this is [TS]

00:39:58   Justin no easy fast work for the two of us everything's going along smooth but [TS]

00:40:03   there was there was much discussion behind the scenes about this stuff so [TS]

00:40:07   the final leg I will I would draw the bow for the sake of completeness and [TS]

00:40:12   sound effects of course you well it can only be one the final one we're going to [TS]

00:40:18   talk about has been given the name Nile and Kia mail and hear this one has this [TS]

00:40:27   one has an interesting history because it first appeared on the radar with one [TS]

00:40:32   color scheme and then evolved to another color scheme which is the color scheme [TS]

00:40:36   it now has in a referendum it is a great flag surprise surprise it has a white [TS]

00:40:44   design in the middle [TS]

00:40:45   surprise surprise but the design in the middle of this is very reminiscent of [TS]

00:40:51   kind of sort of communist hammer and sickle in some ways at first glance but [TS]

00:40:56   what it is in fact is the the coke or beer made famous by CGP grey zone logo [TS]

00:41:04   that he uses in his own videos and and branding with the flask test you were [TS]

00:41:09   removed and in place of the test tube is a stylized no presumably representing my [TS]

00:41:18   hardness yeah Brady washes cushions yes the couple of times I said how does now [TS]

00:41:27   is for reasons that remain a mystery to me seem to have stuck with me and I come [TS]

00:41:32   up all the time so the total mystery that you keep bringing up all the time [TS]

00:41:35   to reference yourself whenever you possibly can I don't know why it's lived [TS]

00:41:39   on the podcast for as long as it has been that way but what people have gone [TS]

00:41:43   with it is beyond me that you know I'm not actually was but [TS]

00:41:47   anyway and this this this gear and no stylization has sort of been rotated [TS]

00:41:54   anti-clockwise by about 45 degrees it's cool look at this is the one that as you [TS]

00:42:03   referenced by far went through the largest number of people modifying the [TS]

00:42:08   design on the reddit I think the two people most responsible for this design [TS]

00:42:14   are appearing for the second time in our contest here is laws barred chemists and [TS]

00:42:20   then this final coloration was done by will bob 15 but there were definitely a [TS]

00:42:26   bunch of variations on this particular one so this this flag is gone through a [TS]

00:42:31   big evolution and when we were discussing options we think that this is [TS]

00:42:37   the best and final evolution of this particular design I think it I think [TS]

00:42:43   it's very interesting for the color selection [TS]

00:42:48   they've they've they've done a kind of light gray on dark grey background in a [TS]

00:42:55   way that still that still makes it distinct and I think that the overlay of [TS]

00:43:00   the nail for you and the gear for me has worked out very well on this one [TS]

00:43:04   in some ways I think of this flag as a bit like the opposite of the one that we [TS]

00:43:10   started out with the club and claw flag if the club in and cloth flag is the [TS]

00:43:16   friendliest of the flags this one on this on the spectrum might be angriest [TS]

00:43:22   of the flags because it has these very sharp design elements it has the spike [TS]

00:43:27   email in it [TS]

00:43:29   but there's no denying that this is a cool looking flag yeah it does have [TS]

00:43:33   another dubious honor and this is not to pass the vote because I'm sure over the [TS]

00:43:37   course of the vote other things are going to happen to buy anyway but this [TS]

00:43:41   has the dubious honor of being one of the few flags that has pained [TS]

00:43:46   unofficially very unofficially printed out and flow and because a fan of as [TS]

00:43:51   code Vasiliki actually printed this onto a piece of paper and took it to the [TS]

00:43:56   Royal Society open day and posed for a bunch of pictures with it which I have [TS]

00:44:01   previously posted on my blog I believe so we have seen pictures of this one out [TS]

00:44:06   in the wild but it is by no means our official flag nothing is our official [TS]

00:44:10   flag until the vote is done right there is no official flag until you dear [TS]

00:44:15   listeners help us select one so there we go is 250 it's looking at the mall next [TS]

00:44:22   to each other I have to say Brady I'm going to give us a pat on the back for [TS]

00:44:27   selecting such excellent flags yeah I mean I'm looking at them all together on [TS]

00:44:33   my computer and I think they look good as a bunch I think they are good as [TS]

00:44:38   individual options for the flags and I am I'm going to be very curious to see [TS]

00:44:44   how this referendum goes yeah I mean I completely agree with you i think it's a [TS]

00:44:50   really cool cool list now I know a lot of people are gonna say once we should [TS]

00:44:55   have chosen to submit more nothing is going to change this list this is the [TS]

00:44:58   only one to vote on if you send anything else on your postcards you've wasted [TS]

00:45:02   your ballot it will be shredded it will be shredded [TS]

00:45:05   but that doesn't mean fixtures ready yet to actually read these things I haven't [TS]

00:45:11   to get you in your place so you could do the shooting [TS]

00:45:15   but you can bring your showed it to my place that's a funny the idea of you [TS]

00:45:23   getting on the train coming all the way here the shredder and let us send you an [TS]

00:45:28   industrial shredder so just to recap we have five you are voting on them by [TS]

00:45:32   their names [TS]

00:45:33   the details of how to vote including the old important address is on the website [TS]

00:45:38   so you have to go to the website at read the instructions are clever and devious [TS]

00:45:43   plan to make sure that we could show people instructions one more time by not [TS]

00:45:49   reaching out the address on the podcast where does and your vote you have to [TS]

00:45:53   click on the link or you have to go to hello internet died FM / flag vote to [TS]

00:46:01   see the instructions one more time of exactly what we want and exactly what [TS]

00:46:05   makes a valid ballots and also to find the address to actually send a postcard [TS]

00:46:11   do so Brady those who have made it to the end of our little episode on the [TS]

00:46:17   flag referendum they want to know what does being an official flag [TS]

00:46:24   of hello Internet mean how does this affect the world's how does this affect [TS]

00:46:29   their lives and perhaps you as a person to always trying to create official [TS]

00:46:36   things for hello Internet you have an answer to have an answer for our [TS]

00:46:39   listeners well I mean I know what it means to you you're just going to [TS]

00:46:43   digitally archive it and and recorded as the winner right it might go on the [TS]

00:46:49   Wikipedia page as the official flag think it that much more thoughts I mean [TS]

00:46:57   you know I like a good physical object and I do believe it or not I do have [TS]

00:47:03   contacts in the flag making world no really so I will I have already made a [TS]

00:47:10   few inquiries I've put the wheels in motion and I think I will endeavour to [TS]

00:47:15   fly the hello Internet flag at some point perhaps we could fly over the [TS]

00:47:20   penguin enclosure Bristol Zoo when I do I do I don't know where we would fly I'm [TS]

00:47:26   sure people will suggest places the internet flag could be flown I'm not [TS]

00:47:30   ruling out the White House some point you don't want to rule out any option [TS]

00:47:34   straightaway yeah so i mean i'm hopeful that I mean what possible reason could [TS]

00:47:41   they be flying a flag over the white house the White House the podcast at [TS]

00:47:47   that point will be so large it will have so many listeners as visiting will be [TS]

00:47:52   the equivalent of the pope visiting we're basically a defacto nation at that [TS]

00:47:58   point that's why the white house [TS]

00:48:01   yeah so I believe these flat the winning flag will come into existence it will be [TS]

00:48:07   officially endorsed I don't know what else I don't know what happens when a [TS]

00:48:12   flag is officially appointed like it will be written into the hello Internet [TS]

00:48:16   constitution that we gotta get their constitutions started somewhere I think [TS]

00:48:21   they're gonna have to be like rules of use is a legend isn't allowed to touch [TS]

00:48:26   the ground any point [TS]

00:48:28   oh yeah rules for how to fold it into various circumstances before our [TS]

00:48:35   military personnel how they handle it exactly if if the podcast evergreens big [TS]

00:48:41   enough to have its own me for example they would need guidelines for its use [TS]

00:48:46   so so that there is there is much to be done in fact there may even be another [TS]

00:48:51   referendum requires we have weak weak weak and these things that will have a [TS]

00:48:57   referendum for the flag and then we'll have another referendum for the the [TS]

00:49:00   rules of use of the flags and if you think a referendum is convoluted and [TS]

00:49:05   confusing wait to you see that one yeah that's going to be great so that website [TS]

00:49:10   address again great for those who want to put in place to vote we not only do [TS]

00:49:14   we want your vote we really want your votes because that's just for fun and we [TS]

00:49:18   want you guys to have helped choose the flag but but we are also really excited [TS]

00:49:22   about the other side of the post cut to the face side where we were really que [TS]

00:49:29   no where you send your postcards from as well and we will be looking at that site [TS]

00:49:32   you know could be hello from the black stump in Adelaide those votes my count [TS]

00:49:36   double great-looking double double of the come from Adelaide you had a lady [TS]

00:49:42   and don't count more no matter how much you think you do you know what we gonna [TS]

00:49:45   do great we're gonna get some cracking stamps as well that's ever going to get [TS]

00:49:50   some great steps we're going it's a great stamps but I definitely definitely [TS]

00:49:54   12 second brady's enthusiasm here for receiving ballots and receiving [TS]

00:50:00   postcards that is one of the reasons why we decided to pull this out as a mini [TS]

00:50:06   episode of hello internet and to do it as a separate thing is because we really [TS]

00:50:11   do want you to get involved and to help pick a flag for the show and to send in [TS]

00:50:17   your votes so we're looking forward to getting as many of those as we can get [TS]

00:50:22   from everyone who wants to participate in our flag referendum get out the vote [TS]

00:50:28   hello internet died FM / flag vote [TS]