0:00:00We waited so I remember when we were about to record the first episode of series one I said to introduce ourselves
0:00:12and like say who we are you know in case people have no idea who we are which is incredibly likely
0:00:19and you know you said no and you made a very compelling case for not introducing ourselves in episode one.
0:00:26So we did so we did and now that episode nine tain you're saying we should introduce ourselves.
0:00:34I am I am
0:00:35but I have a reason for that which is today we have been featured on the i Tunes store so there is a greater likelihood
0:00:43that there are people who are listening to this episode as their first episode who really have no idea who we are who
0:00:50just clicked on a gray high button at the top of i Tunes and I'm listening for the first time.
0:00:55Hello welcome if that's you alone so I think that this is a this is a good chance to maybe do a little bit of an
0:01:01introduction. I guess how would you describe your job to people what is it that you do.
0:01:06Brady nah nah I'm not falling for that.
0:01:09When you when you said that way we had to introduce ourselves I specifically said that you have to go first.
0:01:15Like I was trying to cut you off there trying to get rid of whatever your plan is nine and there is no plan.
0:01:21There is just I just don't want to sit and either talk about myself for like twenty five minutes
0:01:26and I have you say I'm great I'm at You Tube videos or I don't want to talk about myself for like eight seconds
0:01:32and then have you talk for three hours about you know their childhood was like I want to use that line I want to know.
0:01:39OK OK All right let me who you do you come here often.
0:01:43Yes I do come to this corner of the Internet quite often I see to be great
0:01:46and I guess the most concise way to describe what I do now for a living is that I make informative youtube videos that
0:01:55people watch is that the way I would describe what I do but I always find it a little bit.
0:02:00Strange trying to describe what it is that I do
0:02:03and I find it very awkward in some social situations sometimes those kind of why I actually want to know how do you
0:02:09handle this situation. What do you do. Describe describe your job for me now.
0:02:14Like I'm a person who doesn't know you at all if it's a stranger like someone cutting my hair or something
0:02:20and they ask why I usually say I make You Tube videos because everyone knows what huge it is
0:02:26and then if they ask what kind of You Tube videos I say kind of science the educational ones.
0:02:35Sometimes they're about math so chemistry and stuff sometime in the just about cool stuff.
0:02:41And then after that I kind of see where it goes from there but I just say I make You Tube videos
0:02:46and people people don't really care what other people.
0:02:50People just not talk about themselves so I just give them the bare minimum
0:02:55and if they really care they can ask more questions
0:02:58and then you know like anyone I'll talk about myself for ever if they want me to I remember I was going through US
0:03:05Customs not that long ago and I like going to U.S.
0:03:09Customs because they want immigration I should say because they always ask lots of questions about yourself
0:03:15and then like I have to and it's really nice like you know they're like What do you do You Tube videos
0:03:19or what kind of videos and they ask like where you've been and what you doing in the country
0:03:23and they're like they seem really interested buddies.
0:03:28If it was like that sometimes and then and then it all ends very abruptly they like Ike
0:03:32and I just had to pass go back and show you a way.
0:03:34But recently I was I was going through it and this guy was like What do you do on that You Tube videos
0:03:41and then he was putting like videos on You Tube and I'm not now it's pretty easy
0:03:46and then he starts asking me all these technical questions and then he asked me about like Go Pro cameras
0:03:52and it turns out he was really into like kayaking
0:03:56and then he got his i Phone it out this is at the desk in immigration.
0:04:00My friend showing me all his kayaking videos and ask me for tips on how he was filming them
0:04:05and what he should do to put the minute we were led by these by the end of that I'm sure the people behind in the queue
0:04:10were pretty cheesed off
0:04:11but I musta been there for a good five ten minutes just watching videos on these I find this we are so different I
0:04:18would find that both incredibly awkward and slightly terrifying.
0:04:24I always want to get through that customs gate as fast as possible let me on the other side of this gate
0:04:30when I'm on the I'm on the airplane side I'm not on the you are in the countryside I feel like there's only one good
0:04:36outcome here which is walking through the gate
0:04:38and there are many ways this can go wrong if the customs guy doesn't like you or if they just you know they're bored
0:04:44and they want to send you to the special room right for interrogation.
0:04:47I don't I don't like the situation at all
0:04:49and if a guy was talking to me for it for a very long time I would just assume that he was stalling while the big beefy
0:04:57guys with guns are going to come out and take me away to some other place I thought I was in the to the special.
0:05:02That's exactly it. No one's ever stuck with a show kayaking videos on their phone. These people are never chit chatty.
0:05:08The only thing I can assume is they're just all like so I would be I would be very nervous I would be very sweaty
0:05:14and twitchy at a point like that and then of course they would feel the need to interrogate people
0:05:18and it was that was why I love talking to you because I know I think I'm a really paranoid wearing person
0:05:22and talk to you and I realize I'm pretty chilled out.
0:05:25But I don't think that is paranoid
0:05:27and worrying I think that that is the appropriate response to the situation of going through customs.
0:05:31Many bad things
0:05:33and only one good thing come out in that region the only time I was a little bit worried getting into the U.S.
0:05:39Was not that long ago I made a video about how a lot mathematically how the N.S.A.
0:05:45Was cracking into people's e-mails just about like the mathematics behind it was no political agenda it was just a
0:05:50geeky video but that was the first time it occurred to me maybe making that video has put my name on some watch list
0:05:56and next time I go to the counter that is going to say. Now we don't want troublemakers like you a lot you know.
0:06:04You're not patriotic or anything and that we're going to but nothing happen. Getting back to what you do.
0:06:09So when you say I make in these informative videos where does conversation usually go from there.
0:06:15Well I'm realizing that I might be taking the wrong strategy here because I know in person I don't really like to talk
0:06:22about what I do I feel like I would I would much rather move past this part of the conversation
0:06:27and maybe it is it's just like the customs situation.
0:06:30Maybe people can sense that because it seems to me that people are always very interested in what I do
0:06:35and I end up trying to give the answers or answers that are sort of true but not exactly true
0:06:42and then trying to move the conversation right along with them people are much more interested the way I would actually
0:06:46describe it right now. I make informative You Tube videos for a living.
0:06:51That's that's kind of what makes it sound like you know
0:06:53when you're like like safety videos like what should you do in an earthquake or how to have how to brush your teeth
0:07:01and things like that and like I don't want to pick you up or anything
0:07:05but I think if there are they are a bit better than that maybe
0:07:09but less helpful I would say my videos are definitely less helpful than that. I'm not conveying any useful advice.
0:07:19I mean I guess I guess usually my videos are about I don't know geography I guess is a large part of what my videos are
0:07:26about
0:07:26but they're not on any particular set topic they're just there to sort of explaining something that I think is interesting
0:07:32and that I hope other people will think I would I will go
0:07:36and then you couldn't do this because it would it would sound too much like bragging but I thought I was you.
0:07:43If I was describing what you do I would probably add a few words to your description I would say he makes like like
0:07:49quirky youtube videos about you know trivial but fun things unique it was quirky
0:07:57and trivia in there to to make it sound like.
0:08:00It's like something that's worthy or something you have to watch in a workshop at your new job.
0:08:05Yeah I guess it's funny as we're doing this this this little section here now I realize I've never just I've never been
0:08:10in a situation where I really want to big up what I do.
0:08:14I haven't really given any public presentations
0:08:16or anything about what I'm doing so I haven't needed to write a formal interview.
0:08:20I guess that most of the time I find myself that I like social gatherings is trying to avoid the issue which as you
0:08:25mentioned people like to talk about themselves
0:08:28and my usual trick for getting around this in a conversation with somebody else.
0:08:33Go for as long as you possibly can without asking the other person what it is they do.
0:08:41And it's surprisingly hard to do that.
0:08:43But I use this to my advantage in social situations where I don't really want to talk about my job
0:08:48and so I will refuse to ask what the other person does for a living. Forcing them to make the first move.
0:08:57So they say oh what do you do for a living
0:08:59and then I can say I kind of stumbled through a terrible explanation that doesn't hopefully sound very interesting.
0:09:04And then immediately end with. And what do you do for a living. And hopefully that avoids any follow up questions.
0:09:11And often that works.
0:09:13Why do you not want to tell people what you did you know you do a good thing and you're successful at it.
0:09:18It's strange working on the Internet.
0:09:20I feel like I'm a relatively private person and then
0:09:24when you do something that is on the Internet in public that everybody can see it sometimes leads to strange situations.
0:09:32So I had a couple of times when I was starting in my You Tube career
0:09:35and I was much more upfront about what do you do while I make You Tube videos for a living.
0:09:40There were a couple of well let's gather everybody around the computer and watch your youtube videos right now
0:09:46and I situations and that I find just horrifyingly awkward.
0:09:52I dodged a bullet at a family reunion once with that there was a live Cather all of these people who you don't know.
0:10:00Anything about yet you've just walked in the door
0:10:02but there are going to be maybe thirty people who want to watch now what you do for a living.
0:10:07On the screen and we're all going to then talk about it so it's so uncomfortable.
0:10:12Something like that so that's that's one reason why I think I have toned down necessarily talking about what I do with
0:10:18with people that I don't know as I don't want this to be.
0:10:21Oh really tell me your Web site let me let me look at at at your work life is it's very very strange I think being a
0:10:28working on the Internet where everybody can see what you do.
0:10:31It feels strange sometimes so that's kind of why I avoid it
0:10:35but don't you don't you have sometimes if people ask to see your You Tube video I mean by then are probably are a shine
0:10:41about five videos of my greyhounds they're probably sick. Yeah but I'm going to spend it.
0:10:47I think I think maybe I should try adopting your strategy which is to sound really into my own job
0:10:54and then people won't want to hear about it at all.
0:10:58Oh let me show you some of my videos people will be like oh wait let me get a refill on my drink first
0:11:02or I wander off to the kitchen and then they won't want to see a lot maybe that's a better strategy of my own
0:11:06and I might want to try that.
0:11:07I have caught one photo on my phone that I
0:11:10and I have like in a folder that I can get to quickly because it comes in really handy when
0:11:15when you have to talk about your work because because the problem is you work doesn't you know you can say I'm a bit
0:11:21boring and geeky when you start talking about science and things about chemicals and mathematics
0:11:26and that so you make videos with explosion.
0:11:30Yeah that's true but the picture on my phone is when we went and filmed inside the Bank of England gold bullion vote
0:11:36and the professor and I are standing in front of like all the billions and billions of pounds worth of gold.
0:11:42So I say I do videos like about the elements in chemistry and things
0:11:46and people are like how can you make that interesting.
0:11:49I put the picture and look at this I don't have that's not interesting.
0:11:55You've got it all cued up on your phone you're ready to just flash it right in there.
0:11:58I wouldn't say I had a I wouldn't say I have it.
0:12:00Cued up but
0:12:02and it's only if the conversation gets to a certain level of interrogation that I that I pull out the photo in my
0:12:07defense.
0:12:07But but I certainly wouldn't show someone one of my videos at a party I think that would be pretty dull for them
0:12:14but I find that I find if I say handy What are the other things is that if we're running a podcast because on this
0:12:20podcast one of the things that we often talk about is our work lives
0:12:26and so I do have this forum in a sense where I talk quite publicly about what I do
0:12:32or the behind the scenes of how videos went or what I was thinking about when making them
0:12:36and you do the same thing you talk about some stories behind your work so we have this hello internet podcast which is
0:12:42sometimes about work sometimes it's about nothing very much at all sometimes we're just following up on things that
0:12:48have happened before. We do seem I spent a lot of time talking about flags these days.
0:12:52Well that was just one episode on a very surface that I might add it was that it was an episode and just a follow up
0:12:59but that wasn't a real episode we have to do some more flag future yet I think the four new listeners who have made it
0:13:06this far.
0:13:07If you haven't if you if you've made it this far you probably haven't figured out where the stop button is quite
0:13:12possible the show is called Hello Internet
0:13:14and it is a little bit I think of it as like a conversation with the listeners.
0:13:18We talk about stuff and then we read all the comments and the feedback
0:13:23and is a very active forum where people participate and it's very much a back and forth with the audience
0:13:29but I do think that the little bit of a running joke is that the show is really really should be called to do the
0:13:36talking. Subtitle. It's not waffling It's an amazing amount of content.
0:13:42So sometimes we do wonder on a little bit but we do sometimes get to the actual topics at the show
0:13:48but that's that's what this part of I guess I don't know how would you describe the five years I feel like I just you
0:13:53know I think it's just it is it's just take videos talking. But not necessarily about You Tube videos all the time.
0:14:02True true. Hello Internet.
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0:15:53Squarespace everything you need to create an exceptional website tradition.
0:16:00Yeah
0:16:00and I think we should break from tradition just because you know where is that maybe a couple of new people are listening.
0:16:05Traditionally we start with a bit of follow up.
0:16:10We haven't got a lot of follow up from previous episodes thankfully because we we cleared the decks with the last
0:16:16episode's epic follow up two hours of yellow up there is there is zero follow up now
0:16:21and I don't know if I just want you to know that the word humble brag which has been something we've talked about a bit
0:16:26lately has apparently made it into the dictionary the is the Oxford English Dictionary
0:16:31or one of those I was going to ask you which dictionary. Now who cares.
0:16:35Once a year they have their they have their marketing stunt where they say here are five new words we put in the
0:16:40dictionary. That's not a marketing stunt Brady that's that's them updating the language. Yeah whatever.
0:16:47But how humble brick it did make it in.
0:16:49Some people thought maybe it was because maybe they were reacting to it being on the podcast.
0:16:54I'm sure I'm sure they were I'm sure they were.
0:16:56We talked about it two weeks ago and then this week they decide it's time to put it in the dictionary.
0:17:01I'm absolutely sure that's how that works. That's too much of a coincidence I think it must be us.
0:17:05I think we can be much more much more confident about it when Brady typing the synonym for hunt
0:17:11and peck typing makes it into the Oxford English Dictionary.
0:17:14Then I think we can claim much more credit but all in all because they at least all they at least update
0:17:20or add to the definition of free voting that will be that will be my crowning glory.
0:17:26I will retire from trying to thrust new words upon the world
0:17:29when that happens I had a little thing on Twitter a couple of days ago where I was I was trying to get people to come
0:17:35up with two word humble breaks.
0:17:38Could they make an entire humble brag into I'm not yeah I'm not going to harp on it
0:17:43but what it did do is highlighted to me yet again that a lot of people haven't grasped what a humble brag is
0:17:52and if you haven't go back
0:17:53and listen to the last episode where Gray complains for a little bit too long about people not understanding it.
0:18:00You must understand the humble brag is there must be the self deprecation. Was it too long.
0:18:05I'm not entirely sure it was too long.
0:18:07There were no actually it was raised in the concise that was unfair it was concise.
0:18:11I'm trying to look it up now to see what Oxford it was the Oxford English Dictionary I want to see what they wrote for
0:18:17the humble brag definition. Yeah let me just because of quickly that's a good idea actually.
0:18:22I'll look at this I like this already OK so according to the Oxford English Dictionary it is an ostensibly modest
0:18:30or self-deprecating statement whose actual purpose is to draw attention to something of which one is proud.
0:18:37That's pretty much how we define that.
0:18:39I think that is almost exactly our definition I do think that things are going from the show.
0:18:43Yes there is a photo today. Yeah even.
0:18:48Everybody even the use of ostensibly there which I think is is the real key word for yes right.
0:18:55We didn't use that word does. I did use that word did I use that word.
0:18:59That's why we can say that I used deprecating So together we joined forces to create that definition which was then
0:19:06just shamelessly stolen by the Oxford English Dictionary in the space of a few days
0:19:11and put into the dictionary Oxford English Dictionary. Thumbs up for me I like that a good definition yes.
0:19:16Very good I was a little worried.
0:19:18Thank you go into that dictionary thing for which I may be speaking of lists of words.
0:19:23One other little piece of follow up last episode we talked about the list I was creating of swear words
0:19:31and flag words
0:19:32and words that cause problems problems in the You Tube comments that I was sort of using his watch words that I could
0:19:40you know make sure nothing inappropriate was happening.
0:19:44You were you were making basically a blacklist for words that people can't say in the comments.
0:19:50I don't want to call it a blacklist I want to call it more a flag list because if those those words can be used
0:19:55completely appropriately. I'll give you a very real example actually because.
0:20:00Something I'm quite happy to talk about because the person involved has talked about it.
0:20:04Professor Polly coffin my chemistry videos and parody videos has shaky hands
0:20:09and it's just a family trait he hasn't a medical problem or anything.
0:20:14A lot of people put all has this guy got you know Parkinson's
0:20:17or something like that making inappropriate comments about his medical condition.
0:20:21Haiti Haiti has spoken in videos about he said Don't worry everyone I know got shaky hands. My health is fine.
0:20:27Stop worrying about it. But sometimes people make really inappropriate comments about it.
0:20:33So for example I have in some cases put the word like Parkinson's or shaky into the into the on to the list
0:20:43and that's not because I don't want people to use the word shaky
0:20:46but if they are using the word shaky I think maybe I should have a quick look to make sure they haven't said his hands
0:20:53are shaky and then go on into some diatribe about a bunch of inappropriate things.
0:20:59So so it's not it's not blacklist it's you tell me what it is it's just a list of words for me to keep an eye on.
0:21:06But also considering that you have thousands of videos
0:21:09and tons of comments it is probably the best name for it is the enormous amount of work for Brady list of checking over
0:21:17these coming.
0:21:18You must have how many how many do you have a day to approve or check out how how much work is it for you.
0:21:24I don't know because I don't go into every channel every day but it's no.
0:21:28It's not it's not that because the list isn't that long. Which brings me to the follow up. Yeah.
0:21:33Someone has him out in the list which I don't know if we're supposed to have this or not
0:21:39but it's from a famous company and it's then a list of words that aren't allowed to be used in its kind of materials
0:21:49and codes and things like that it's a it's a technology company and and it was sent in as a spreadsheet
0:21:55and it's not just a list of words each word is apportioned.
0:22:00Waiting of how bad it is and there's a big discussion of the word and there's actions to be taken if the word is found.
0:22:07Under what circumstances is OK under what circumstances is it to be eliminated. And Anna is completely fascinating.
0:22:17Yes So I've just opened up this spreadsheet that you sent me which is enormous.
0:22:24The file sizes is one point four megabytes and it has a few thousand words on it. If I scroll down.
0:22:31If I scroll down to the bottom of the spreadsheet on my computer here it's almost seven thousand words long words that
0:22:40this company wants to check up on the last word on the list is the zipper sniffers which is offensive I guess it is
0:22:49offensive
0:22:49but if it was funny because word studding was that funny looking through it was part part of this is boy I did not know
0:22:58how many words are offensive
0:23:00and I'm learning so many new words from this list where there are not a lot of rude words
0:23:05but words I have no idea what they mean and then I have to scroll over to the side and it doesn't.
0:23:12It's irritating because this company does not it does not tell you what the word means it just tells you the action to
0:23:19be taken under particular context and I'm looking at some of these I think. I don't I don't know what that word means.
0:23:25I would like to know.
0:23:27Sometimes it tells you it doesn't tell you like the definition it would just say ah this word is a profanity we don't
0:23:32we don't accept words of this but that's with words that are rude
0:23:36and that is a shame for us because we can't learn what these rude words mean
0:23:40but there are some words where there is a very very long discussion of the word
0:23:46and like like a C G P Great video scripts worth of discussion on the word for example.
0:23:54Samoa is a word here on the list. So there's a lot of words that are to do with.
0:24:00Politics or geography which I'm sure would take your fancy.
0:24:04So you know regions or places where you know of the contentious places like the Falkland Islands and things.
0:24:12But I've just I've just stumbled upon some out
0:24:15and there's a whole little description about what's on the list you know the Protectorate of Germany some of what was
0:24:19known as German some out of nine hundred nineteen fourteen.
0:24:22When you see an occupied the arms are not in fourteen they became commonly known as Western Samoa.
0:24:27So this whole long and it continues.
0:24:30So this is so for countries or places where people could be offended by what you call. These are on the list as well.
0:24:38So and there are also lots of
0:24:40when I first started looking at the list another thing I noticed where there were lots of numbers on the list
0:24:45and sometimes it was a number that like you know despair was a rude word like boobies or something like that.
0:24:54But there are other ones that are to do with you know laws or codes that are used for drug use
0:24:59and things like that so this is clearly a list that has been made over a long time
0:25:03and a lot of thought has gone into it and it is interesting reading.
0:25:06Yeah I would be I would be very curious to know how.
0:25:09How many years worth of compilations of every possible piece of feedback they've ever gotten from any of their products
0:25:17where someone says oh I don't like your use of this word in this situation and then someone goes
0:25:21and adds another road to this enormous spreadsheet about what they should do under under particular circumstances.
0:25:27Guess what I just found on the list was you find Holland Hollands How do you know about Holland it is to be left
0:25:34unchanged under most circumstances but it is to be replaced with Netherlands
0:25:39when is used to refer to the country of the Netherlands
0:25:43and that is all the commonly used to refer to the country of the Netherlands Holland is actually only refers to the
0:25:49western region of the Netherlands.
0:25:51The two provinces in this region are called North Holland and supplement the official names of the country
0:25:55and Netherlands short form and Kingdom of the Netherlands. Long form.
0:26:00Say look at quickly they did that and you made a great big long video about it.
0:26:03Yeah that's much better than my video that I should have just posted a video saying that you should have would have
0:26:11gotten a million views.
0:26:16Thank you thank you to the person who sent this to I won't name just in case we're not supposed to have it.
0:26:20Yes but it is fascinating.
0:26:22Yeah
0:26:22and just as a tease I would totally love to be able to post this so that everybody listening could look at it because
0:26:27it is very interesting but it has to be our little secret so that just for us
0:26:32but this thank you to whoever sent it in before we crack on can I can I have a Brady's paper cut this way.
0:26:39Yeah yeah what you want to complain about this is this week's paper.
0:26:45It's more of a paper grace because I don't want to I don't want to create the impression I get too upset about it
0:26:49especially as you are one of the main offenders in this area.
0:26:53Oh wow OK what do I do that annoys you here you know the world is not limited to me
0:26:58but I do that yeah I don't want to I don't want to come across and I want to come across the wrong way.
0:27:03This is this is this week's paper for me I'm getting ready
0:27:07and I actually don't know what these things are code which probably adds is probably going to add to the grade A robot
0:27:13versus very the caveman element of this I don't like it when people send e-mails with these attachments and that
0:27:20when you click on them they put something into your calendar.
0:27:25Automatically Oh these are these appointment things that seems that seems inappropriate to me and I don't like it
0:27:33but if you and I were it at you know you know fifteen years ago where we had a coffee shop
0:27:40or whatever they had fifteen years ago and we agreed that we were going to go
0:27:44and see a movie on Tuesday night you wouldn't then reach over and grab the my diary and turn to the page of Tuesday
0:27:51and hand write the appointment and that would be my responsibility. That's my My Space And my thing to write in.
0:27:59But every.
0:28:00No way Sensi when you agree to make them or do something they send you these attachments and it's like you click on
0:28:06and then like some booty witchcraft happens
0:28:08and stuff being written in your calendar you can write after which graph I was thinking I've never done that
0:28:17but as you were talking I realized of course very often when we schedule
0:28:21when we are going to record one of these episodes I get it in my calendar
0:28:26and then there's a little location on it to say who else is participating in this and I type in your name
0:28:32and I don't even think about it I don't even see it
0:28:34but I guess the computer just emails you automatically because I realize you have complained about this before
0:28:40and I haven't paid much attention sorry it's OK I'm happy I'm happy I'm happy to ignore you
0:28:46and you're not the only person who sends them and now I realize you didn't even realize you're sending them.
0:28:52But and I do understand the usefulness of them
0:28:54and if I was you know you know I see the point of it I just don't like it.
0:29:00Comfortable with can I ask you something you can't why do you click it I mean you must you must know that by now that a
0:29:06little card icon I don't automatically I don't click them anymore I know of any of them once
0:29:11or twice in my life I don't click them but I still get it.
0:29:15OK so you're not you're not complaining that it writes in your cat you're complaining that it exists.
0:29:20That's what I say another reason I do sometimes click them and you're not guilty of this
0:29:24but sometimes you have to click them to get the information that you made about the appointment.
0:29:28Well that's just poor emailing skills on the part of the other person so you know if you need the phone number of the
0:29:33code for a conference call the where the meetings happening you've got to click on this thing
0:29:37and then say as you click on it they've put an entry in my diary.
0:29:40That's my space stay out of that as I would usually give footie which took root to witchcraft explicit computer
0:29:49instructions to do something on your own.
0:29:56How do you feel about them like when you get sent them I have arranged my life.
0:30:00If in such a way so that I very rarely have to take a meeting of any kind which I think is a big difference between
0:30:07your working life and my working life.
0:30:10So this is not any kind of issue for me it is very very rare that I have to schedule some kind of meeting at a
0:30:17particular time and that is on purpose.
0:30:19So this is not a big issue for me I don't I don't see very many of those cards because I don't schedule very many I can
0:30:25vouch for that getting you to commit to make anyway would do many things buddy not true I'm sorry
0:30:32and I fully admit that I have a very difficult person to work with sometimes
0:30:37and I'm going to choose a word from this root list to describe you.
0:30:43I'm going to take offense at that and then there will be another row in that spreadsheet of what to do.
0:30:48You are a hunchback.
0:30:50I'm going to shut this I'm going to shut this list down because it's too tempting for me just to drop in words from all
0:30:55the way through the front. Fair enough you do you do would you want to have no control over your computer screen.
0:31:00I have no voodoo witchcraft to force you to shut down the I don't know because you're so much more technically savvy
0:31:05than they are I don't know that even just making the Skype call hasn't given you access to things I don't want you.
0:31:10Are you going through my files right now where you think it's magic when you leave the camera on
0:31:14and I can still see what you're doing. Forget to turn it off. How do you see that. You left your camera on it.
0:31:24That's just me not knowing I had intended off anyway. Can you see me now.
0:31:29No I can see right now you are you remember to turn on a camera that starts good so I don't have to put my shirt back
0:31:34on that I am going to show you. Well you know it's been a busy week for C.D.P.
0:31:40Gray when he lets me do the advertisement but here we go this week.
0:31:44We'd like to thank the good people at Harry's now you probably know who Harry's are by now they're the people that make
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0:32:00Who wants to improve any experience I'm having. Now these races are much better than the ones I see on T.V.
0:32:04Like in these ads for Gillette that look like these ridiculous props from a Transformers movie.
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0:32:38although you're probably not trying to buy a razor to match my bathrobe anyway.
0:32:42Go for the Winston if you want my advice.
0:32:44Also with the Winston I think you can have your initials engraved into it which is a nice touch.
0:32:49But luckily for me it comes by default with an eye for Harry's on the handle
0:32:53and my share names Heron so I'm sorted all of this aside the most important thing with Harry's I think is the cost.
0:32:59They're all that keeping it affordable and the replacement blades come in at less than two dollars H.
0:33:05and They're really good blades made in Germany you know they're good if they're made in Germany.
0:33:09Check them out at Harry's dot com It's free just to go look at the website
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0:33:17Enter the code H R I when you check out and you get a five dollar discount.
0:33:22Which with products this shape is a pretty big chunk of the process as far as I know they're only delivering in the
0:33:27United States and Canada and U.S. Military locations if you're listening from there.
0:33:33But hopefully that will be changing soon because I might be hitting Cymru fields here in the U.K.
0:33:37The website again Harris dot com and the code H R I.
0:33:41So you get that discount and the people Harry's know you came from here at our pod cast
0:33:47and by the way for people who are based on previous ads have already bought from Harry's
0:33:51and sent me photos of their product. Thank you very much.
0:33:55Who would've ever thought I'd end up doing a job where people send me photos from their bathrooms.
0:34:02Let's talk about your video because it was really interesting.
0:34:05It was excellent as always it's been hugely successful deservedly so congratulations.
0:34:10Thanks
0:34:11but I was hoping maybe we talk some more about it I mean it's fifty minutes long though I mean you've you covered most
0:34:18of the bases I'd imagine but there are probably a few things I'm sure I'll have a few questions about
0:34:22and I'd like to point out a few mistakes you made and
0:34:29and I'm sure there are lots of things you'd like to say about it but for those who haven't seen it.
0:34:32What was this really about.
0:34:33This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart and has been on my mind for I was I was trying to place
0:34:42when this started and I can actually put it pretty consistently at about a decade ago when I was in college
0:34:47and came across a few things and the topic of the video is basically a bounce.
0:34:53To what extent is automation and computer technology going to replace the need for human labor
0:35:04and the economy as that is the broadest way to put it
0:35:07or in a more simple way you can say robots are they going to take your jobs.
0:35:12That's that's kind of the more direct version of what the video is about.
0:35:19You should sort of what you call I mean you can have an excellent auto humans need not apply.
0:35:23But I like the robots taught him to throw but they took our jobs.
0:35:27He should've Kota if you're going to be really click Baity should've put you should have called it eight ways that
0:35:32robots will take your jobs. Yes yes I had a really Buzz Feed it up there. You missed a trick there.
0:35:38It could have been a list video imagine how many more of you that would have gotten the sad thing is it almost
0:35:43certainly would have gotten more definite words it would have stood him pretty well I say I think of my area a million
0:35:48already I have to say I was pleasantly surprised I had no expectations for this one so I'm pretty happy about it.
0:35:55So I mean it's a long video with lots of stuff in a mine.
0:36:00Do we even start talking about what I wrote I don't completely agree. That's going to be my position.
0:36:06OK Well let me let let's start with a start with my my position is basically that this is a really big deal coming down
0:36:15the road how much automation is going to be in place in the labor market
0:36:20and how much humans are going to be finding it very difficult to compete with machines.
0:36:26That's that's my my basic thesis I think the most interesting place maybe to start this discussion is talking about the
0:36:37self driving cars is that to me that is that is the one thing where I look at this and I really think.
0:36:45A lot of things kind of hinge on the self driving cars
0:36:49and it really is a place where people are going to see this in their daily life in a way that lots of other kinds of
0:36:56automation is hidden from view.
0:36:58So I spent tons of time researching and looking up different kinds of automation and contacting companies
0:37:04and there is an enormous amount of stuff that is going on.
0:37:08But it is all hidden from view in warehouses it's in labs
0:37:13and I've gotten some interesting anonymous e-mails from people who work in automating systems talking about what
0:37:19they're up to. It's all behind the scenes.
0:37:22But the self driving car which I really think people should call an auto I'm going to try to make that a thing.
0:37:27Speaking of Oxford English Dictionary are you listening I would very much like a lot of it to be your new word to mean
0:37:33a self driving car.
0:37:34Was that your point was if you borrowed that from someone else you say using it calling out
0:37:38and calling it just an order.
0:37:40As far as I know I'm I'm going to call myself coining this as we have discussed many times on the podcast.
0:37:47It would not surprise me in the least if somebody else independently has has come up with this coinage
0:37:53but I really I really think that you need a different word to describe self driving cars and I spent.
0:38:00Spent a while thinking about it and in my original version of the script I had it as automobiles.
0:38:05I thought oh we should go back to the older term automobiles
0:38:08but I thought oh I don't like that because it's it just didn't it just didn't feel right
0:38:14and so I thought actually autos make alot more sense
0:38:17and it leaned into this whole notion of they are they are automatic transport machines they are fundamentally different
0:38:24from from cars so I don't know I don't know about that there are some it does feel right.
0:38:29I think you've chosen a good word but I see problems with it.
0:38:32First you know people you refer to their cars autos if they've got an automatic or a manual
0:38:37but I have never heard anyone use that phrase but I like it you know for example like if you buy you know
0:38:44when you buy a new car I say had people say oh did you get whatever menu and I am going to order it with me
0:38:52and say I've only heard Americans refer to them as as automatics I became me about be curious to hear from listeners
0:38:58and I mean you look in the last of our advertisement so often we don't.
0:39:01Maybe it's just writing
0:39:02but in classified advertisement set off in the called auto pilot has to say as you left I was going to
0:39:06but that's you know you're trying to save a dollar a letter on that yeah but then
0:39:10but then that then becomes the word doesn't but that's how words sometimes abbreviations. Yes that's true that's true.
0:39:17Anyway anyway that we're getting off. No you're going off track. It's a good name for it but I'm not.
0:39:24I see problems with it as a code anyway.
0:39:26Just because just because that's the most obvious place that we see this transition happening was that the most
0:39:32important. So I would what I think is important about autos coming into daily life.
0:39:44So as we know right now self driving car it it works is is not a technical problem.
0:39:53We're not imagining a future world where there will be self driving cars that work. We already have them.
0:40:00Now it's very interesting I've read a lot of first hand accounts of people who have driven in them
0:40:05and in particular leave the Google cars which have more or less free rein up and down the California coast
0:40:11and throughout San Francisco and they totally work.
0:40:15And the safety record now is better than human drivers over the equivalent distance.
0:40:20It's really quite It's really quite impressive.
0:40:22So my perspective on this is that the rollout of autos now is really much more of a legislative barrier it is no longer
0:40:32a technical barrier.
0:40:34And interestingly there are a few states that already have legislation in place too I think next year make it legal for
0:40:43there to be self driving cars on the road. Florida is one of those states. It was Florida.
0:40:49I may have this wrong out of my head but I think the other one was Nevada.
0:40:52So this is this is definitely this is definitely coming. And the reason why I think it's important is.
0:41:01It's an undeniable place where human labor will just not be as necessary.
0:41:09So once you have a fleet of autos in a city you don't need taxi drivers and there's lots of taxi drivers
0:41:18and they are going to be pushed out of this particular field of work.
0:41:22Yeah
0:41:23and the other reason why I like to use autos because it's as a broader term is think about all of the kinds of machines
0:41:30in the world the need to move around and have human drivers.
0:41:34So one of the other examples are tractors and ploughs in farm equipment
0:41:39and some very you know there are some very interesting videos I've seen again of automated farming equipment just
0:41:45driving around harvesting corn. There happens to be a person in there but he is not driving.
0:41:51Yeah
0:41:51and then the other one that was very very interesting is Caterpillar which is the mining manufacturing company they
0:41:58and they are all.
0:42:00All in on automated machines they have this whole system and you can go and watch their promo videos
0:42:06and they already have these enormous bulldozers and trucks
0:42:09and mining equipment none of which requires the humans to be in it
0:42:15and the whole system requires the barest of oversight from humans.
0:42:20You know that there are all of these different areas
0:42:23and to me the thing that's important about this is like this is the first wave where it's very concrete.
0:42:31People can understand it.
0:42:33And from my perspective the question that really needs answering is what are you going to do
0:42:41when the three million people who work in the transportation industry suddenly find themselves unemployed possibly over
0:42:50the space of five years.
0:42:53You know when when cars come out I don't know how fast will actually be
0:42:56but I bet it will be pretty fast because it will be just so much cheaper they'll be a big incentive to use autos.
0:43:03And I feel like that that is a moment where we as a society have to come to a question about what are you going to do
0:43:10with all of these people who are suddenly unemployed and this is not unprecedented.
0:43:16You know new technologies have come along before that have that have done this.
0:43:22You talk yourself about the transition from horses to the original autos the automobile.
0:43:28And you know we've seen that transition.
0:43:31We saw you know we've seen computers come along
0:43:34and really heavily automate things that used to be done in the ledges and by means of calculating people
0:43:41and bookkeepers you know we've seen wave after wave of this and it is up a level and
0:43:47and is traumatic for millions of people but the world keeps spinning and and by and large people keep ating
0:43:57and adapting and.
0:44:00But I know I mean you are arguing maybe descale is is greater than before
0:44:06but I don't know maybe they say that every time. Well we're never going to see change like this again.
0:44:10Did the introduction of the computer or the introduction of you know the motor car.
0:44:15Well this is this is the biggest change they could have a baby
0:44:18and then you look back twenty years later thirty years later and it's like yeah that was a big change
0:44:24and things changed and we're all still here and I could just see that happening again with the self driving cars.
0:44:31Yeah I think actually the best the best comparison to make along these lines is actually the thing that I opened my
0:44:36video with very on purpose is talking about the transition from agricultural work into non agricultural work
0:44:44and so I went back.
0:44:46Very helpful people at the Labor Statistics help me out with some of this stuff
0:44:50but if you go back to the eighteen hundreds I think it was about eighty percent of the population maybe was ninety
0:44:57percent of the population was directly involved in food production that that the number of people who did anything
0:45:03other than work on a farm or directly service farms was just a tiny portion of the population
0:45:09and I think you could totally make the same claim go back at that point in time and.
0:45:16And tell people about OK what we're going to have improvements in farming technology which are going to allow fewer
0:45:21and fewer people to produce more and more food and people could say well you know what is everybody going to do.
0:45:27And obviously we got through that transition just fine because we're here now.
0:45:30Yep so I totally ignore all of that this has been a kind of rallying cry very many times throughout history.
0:45:40And there is even a name for it the official name is the Luddite fallacy which is the position that are going to get
0:45:49this backwards
0:45:50but I think if you if you believe in the Luddite fallacy you believe that technology reduces the number of jobs.
0:45:58I think that's the right crowd around. Very internet if it's the wrong way around.
0:46:01I know what you meant but there's a name for this term
0:46:05and one of the reasons why I think that is fundamentally different this time is because I look at it this way.
0:46:13You say all right we have we have all these different categories of work that humans can do
0:46:19and humans can sell their straight up physical labor you can have a guy dig a ditch just muscle power.
0:46:26Yeah just straight up muscle power and you can it you can be barely cognitively functioning
0:46:32and you can still dig a ditch
0:46:34and then you move up that you keep moving up into things like white collar workers as you know OK well now this is a
0:46:40thinking person's work and as a general statement the economy has has transitioned from in the first world anyway.
0:46:49Physical labor jobs into more intellectual labor jobs jobs that require some kind of thinking
0:46:56and actually put driving a car in the category of jobs that require some kind of thinking.
0:47:01We don't think of it that way but you need to have a mentally alert person to drive a car or an ambulance.
0:47:07Yes it is like it's like the lowest kind of thinking job perhaps because I know I've I've driven quite a lot across the
0:47:13country
0:47:14and you listen to audiobooks you know your mind you don't have to focus like you're a doctor for example I don't want
0:47:19the doctor listening to audiobooks while he's doing it so yeah like oh that was good.
0:47:24If you're a doctor listening to this podcast please stop listening to the podcast if you are performing surgery at the.
0:47:29Did not recommend that. Yeah.
0:47:32Anyway with truck drivers you know they're going to be smart and know brilliance and laws
0:47:36and it's some kind of some kind of level of intellectual labor
0:47:40and so my perspective on this is that the Basically our machines for almost all of human history were just shockingly
0:47:50dumb they had no cognitive abilities whatsoever and that we are we are just getting to the point now where.
0:48:00The machines are able to compete on a cognitive level with some humans and that's
0:48:07and that's where you talk about a self driving car in very many ways it is a brain competition with humans which makes
0:48:13it fundamentally different from all kinds of machines that came before
0:48:17when you build a better plowed into that plow is not any smarter than the plow that was made of sticks.
0:48:23If it's made of metal it's just physically stronger maybe yeah it's just physically stronger it's bigger.
0:48:29I had this I had this whole bizarre section that I cut I think quite rightly which is hung on the progress of flower
0:48:35Mills over time and how like the production is like
0:48:38and then I look at this later like what am I writing this for this whole thing sounds like a hell of a moment ago.
0:48:45But there is a little a little clip of a flour mill that I still left in there anyway.
0:48:50But if I get like a bigger better flour mill is not fundamentally different from a primitive flour mill.
0:48:56Yeah and that's why I like people who say like oh I'm just engaging the Luddite fallacy when I talk about this stuff.
0:49:02This to me is the real difference is like OK well humans have two kinds of labor to sell physical labor which we've
0:49:09been basically getting rid of
0:49:10and we crossed that threshold I guess at the time of the lever almost in ways that that machine started being able to
0:49:17outdo humans physically and then when all the cars
0:49:20and things came along so that threshold thing crossed you're saying there's another threshold now.
0:49:25Nefesh oh I'm saying it's the intellectual threshold and.
0:49:30And that to me is is the real difference and part part of the reason why I am I am concerned is
0:49:39and I think this is this is a bit of a it is a bit of an uncomfortable conversation to have sometimes
0:49:45but I look at it another example of of a machine that is competing cognitively with humans on a low level are the self
0:49:53checkout machines that you see everywhere now in supermarkets and yours. I mean this is this is one.
0:50:00Things that really made me start thinking I need to make this video is i saw a bunch of stores around me transition to
0:50:06self checkout machines.
0:50:07Man I hate things that they can be sure annoying like Don't get me wrong there are there are there are troubles
0:50:13and problems with them but it doesn't matter that yeah they're more economically efficient
0:50:17and I did a tally of some of the places that I visit and in and one of the supermarkets in London alone.
0:50:26I counted it up
0:50:26and I was like oh OK I just wrote these machines replaced about forty checkout registers in this one huge supermarket
0:50:34in London that I go to
0:50:35and looking at all of the other places I'm like OK I know that there used to be five people at the desk over there
0:50:41and now there's one you know not not every place is doing this but enough places are doing it
0:50:47and then I think OK well that's the self checkout machines are here.
0:50:50We're going to have autos doing the same kind of thing start pushing people out of the labor market with taxis
0:50:56and all the rest of that. The uncomfortable thing to me is.
0:51:03What is it that we're going to have these people do that a machine won't be able to do better.
0:51:12Because if you take someone whose job is retail
0:51:17or you take someone whose job is long haul trucking What are you really going to do with millions of people who used to
0:51:26do those jobs.
0:51:28And how are you going to transition them to something else when all of this kind of work can be automated
0:51:37when the machines keep getting better and better and can compete with humans on different levels.
0:51:43And I I sometimes get mad because I get into arguments with people who keep saying things like oh you know they'll
0:51:50these people they'll go get educated and go to college they'll learn how to become app developers for the App Store
0:51:56or they'll learn how to make web pages are you know they'll learn how to do.
0:52:00All of these things and I and I always feel like that's a nice story to tell yourself
0:52:05and maybe some of those people will do that but
0:52:07when you start talking about numbers in the millions of people you're not going to transition a million guys who were
0:52:14truck drivers into white collar work somewhere in an office I think we have to face the fact that that is that is not
0:52:23practical and I mean yeah you know you make the case brilliantly if both now and in your video and quite possibly
0:52:32but I may very well be wrong I always want to be clear about this. I'm very open to the notion of being wrong.
0:52:37Is it possible this is also a failure of your imagination.
0:52:42I mean two hundred years ago if you'd gone to those people plowing the fields
0:52:47and said don't worry because in two hundred years will be working in call centers and this
0:52:53and that that was a call center.
0:52:56All this going to be this invention called the telephone and then this and then that and then this
0:52:59and their heads would explode you know just like that person in the field two hundred years ago
0:53:04and in two hundred years you look at all the jobs people are doing and go Well I would never even thought of that.
0:53:10Yes And of course a machine can't do that yet because you know I hadn't thought of it.
0:53:13Yeah I mean this is maybe maybe I'm clinging on to a wispy thread of hope and there isn't going to be an invention
0:53:21or things that would do this but. It's always happened before.
0:53:25Yes it has always happened before and it's funny because when
0:53:28when I first transition from being a teacher in to being a You Tube explainer person as I do now I guess I remember I
0:53:36was very fascinated with the new economy
0:53:40and all these these kinds of jobs that have been coming up I think like wow I'm I'm making a full time living now on
0:53:47You Tube and at the time that wasn't even five years old that the whole idea that there were ads on You Tube
0:53:53and You Tube would share the revenue with people who make the videos that didn't even exist for very long at the time
0:53:59that I started.
0:54:00It's it was it was quite amazing to me that this is this new kind of work that could happen
0:54:05and I started looking around at all different kinds of look at all these new jobs isn't this interesting there are
0:54:09people who make apps for the i Phone and all the kind of stuff.
0:54:12One of the things that I thought one day was ha I wonder how many people make a living on You Tube full time
0:54:20and how many people are like me around the world
0:54:23and if you're on the inside of You Tube you can do some ballpark numbers of heart that are harder to do on the outside
0:54:29but you know you can you can gather data about the views on channels and there's a whole bunch of stuff you can do.
0:54:36The bottom line is my back of beyond the loop calculation was not talking about companies like Disney who happened to
0:54:43be on You Tube and not talking about channels like vivo that happened to be on You Tube
0:54:48but people whose job is like mine making You Tube videos how many people like that can there be around the world.
0:54:55My ballpark was maybe somewhere around two thousand people. And so that that was kind of my guess about that.
0:55:06I feel really exclusive now. Yeah that's very very cool.
0:55:10The other thing that that actually this is something that I talk about in a future podcast
0:55:14but there's been a bunch of interesting articles making their way around the Internet right now about how many people
0:55:20make a full time living developing applications for the i Phone an i O. S. On Apple.
0:55:25Yes like the App Store is this huge market
0:55:27and they always have these comical numbers about you know there's twenty zillion apps in the App Store
0:55:33and then the question is OK but how many people make a full time living at that they get not companies but individuals.
0:55:40And I haven't seen anybody try to ballpark it. I'd be really curious if somebody could.
0:55:46But the clear thing from these articles is that the number of independent developers making a living on the App Store
0:55:52is a tiny number of people it is a very small number of people. So when I was thinking about realizing how.
0:56:00A few people did You Tube I had this growing suspicion that while there are many new kinds of jobs I don't think that
0:56:07those new kinds of jobs employ a significant amount of people.
0:56:13And again through some people at the Bureau of Labor Statistics this information was confirmed to me that basically
0:56:20jobs that are new within the last hundred years are very small portions of the workforce
0:56:26and if you look at what people do they are jobs that have been around for a long time in one form or another.
0:56:34And so that's why I worry that this this refrain of new jobs will come and save us.
0:56:41Doesn't doesn't strike me as being borne out by the data it's actually there are very few jobs over time
0:56:48and a lot of the old jobs that make up about half the labor force seem to be easy targets for automation like within
0:56:55our grasp right now for stuff that works in the labs. So that's kind of my thoughts on the new the new jobs thing.
0:57:02Something.
0:57:03Apologies if this was covered in the video but I do know something I took away from the video
0:57:07and it might be a really naive question because I know you do your bit more if I was sort of economics
0:57:13and things like this than I But another thing that I thought might save our bacon was this you know I want things that
0:57:20save our bacon simply go right ahead.
0:57:25And I don't and I'm sure there's somebody you know normal word for this and you'll laugh at me for even saying it
0:57:30but I am not stupid and I realize that companies will maximize their profits and automate and automate
0:57:37and cut down their labor force as much as they can to squeeze every last penny out of out of their business.
0:57:45But does there come a point where they make so many people unemployed
0:57:48and society could fall into such ruin that they actually can no longer start hurting their customer base
0:57:56and therefore they start to employ. People just to sustain themselves.
0:58:02For example if McDonald's could completely automate the cooking process completely and you just went to an A.T.M.
0:58:08To get a cheeseburger.
0:58:10If eventually there was just no one working anymore
0:58:14and no one had money there'd be no one left to buy the cheeseburgers.
0:58:17Is that kind of a self correcting element to the economy as a whole where business went completely.
0:58:25Suresh society into the ground because they need society to sustain their business.
0:58:30OK So you've actually you've actually jump to the thing that I was going to talk about at the end
0:58:34but I think what let's do it now.
0:58:36So this this comes right to the right to the point where I am on board with you that that was one of the reasons why I
0:58:44made this video is I wanted to contribute to a general conversation of talking about what are we going to do with
0:58:53masses of unemployed people
0:58:55and under the current system you are you are kind of right that you can't have a system where.
0:59:03Almost nobody is employed but there are still massive companies.
0:59:07It gets very strange economically very quickly that there are ways under which it can work
0:59:12but yes that there are there are certainly problems with very high unemployment rates.
0:59:18But at some point I don't know what the time frame is going to be we will be in a world where technology is just so
0:59:27advanced that basically all of human labor is almost irrelevant that that would be my prediction.
0:59:34That might be a hundred year time frame a two hundred year time frame
0:59:38when we're talking about literally no humans need to work to do anything.
0:59:42So for those who haven't seen Gray's videos Well I mean he talked about you know newspaper articles being written
0:59:47automatically in the end that things that we don't even things we think are ridiculous to be done automatically
0:59:52actually happening automatically already writing music doing doing legal work there's all kinds of terrifying stuff.
1:00:00That's being done that way.
1:00:01So OK But here's the thing if we could magically jump to that point I feel like well that's not really a problem.
1:00:08If all human life is not required because then you're in what is called a post scarcity economy where our current
1:00:16economy is set up as a way to manage limited resources we have.
1:00:22We exchange money for goods and services because you have a limited amount of time
1:00:27and there's a limited amount of production that can happen this is the story of all of human history.
1:00:31But if you transition to a place where robots can you know they can grow your food
1:00:35and they can run the solar plants to generate the electricity to run the robots you know well then suddenly Why would
1:00:41people pay for anything. If you can have automation just one hundred percent of the way.
1:00:46So that's that's like a nice fantasy land but the gist of the poll and drink cocktails.
1:00:52Yes It's like the Wally World right the robots are taking charge of everything and we get nice
1:00:57and fat in our luxury spaceship but I'd love to be in that role by the way maybe not have had a treadmill
1:01:03but hopefully hopefully they'll be drugs to make me skinny.
1:01:06But anyway that's what I want actually if you're on a treadmill if you want to do it.
1:01:11But but but my concern
1:01:13and I have to say I am so I am that to be clear here I am very long term optimistic on humankind.
1:01:22I am very short term worried for exactly the kinds of problems that you bring up which is.
1:01:29What happens as the unemployment rate goes up because there's there are all of these incentives for companies to
1:01:39automate work and to increase the unemployment rate. And any company that doesn't go along with this.
1:01:46It's it's like a tragedy of the commons situation or it's the prisoner's dilemma
1:01:51but they've been the one company that doesn't go along with it just pushes itself out of business faster because of the
1:01:57impeding with cheaper companies. You can't hold back this tide.
1:02:03And so I don't think that there is a self correcting factor
1:02:07and I think we're in an interesting position where OK we're standing in today's society
1:02:12and you can look at maybe a quasi utopian future but between us and there is a pit of doom. Yeah.
1:02:20Of dangerous situations because you cannot have if you imagine particularly American society exactly as it is now
1:02:29but you turn the unemployment dial up to fifty percent.
1:02:33Yeah that's riots in the streets level of unemployment right now. That is people can't get food this is a huge problem.
1:02:41Levels of unemployment.
1:02:43And so this is this is my concern about what are we going to do in the transition phase
1:02:48and I'm going to be very very conservatively say the transition phase is like the most like a twenty year phase that we
1:02:56need to be worried about.
1:02:57I actually my gut feeling is this is more of like a ten year timeframe that we need to be worried about this stuff.
1:03:04But there is there is definitely a human tendency to overestimate change in the short run
1:03:09and then to underestimate change in the long run. So I may be a little bit.
1:03:14That number those numbers may be shorter than they really are
1:03:16but that's kind of what I mean by I'm short term worried which is a twenty year timeframe.
1:03:21But long term very optimistic I think all of this stuff is good
1:03:24but there's a lot there's a lot of pubs that start you were going to ask me something.
1:03:31I can hear you breathe and you're like my wife you can I'm watching like on the Skype right now.
1:03:37I'm covering the cameras to get the feel of the whole time you're not my wife they are like she can just tell from the
1:03:45way like I Google my name.
1:03:46Exactly what about just getting into that this would be a very popular thing to suggest
1:03:52but I'm sure some think that you know is often talked about could there be could legislation or regulation.
1:04:00They have a case here.
1:04:01Is there a reason that governments couldn't come to our rescue
1:04:04and ban a certain level of automation just for the greater good.
1:04:09Yes So this this is the reverse problem of the company situation.
1:04:13And here here's my view on technology I think technology is almost a technological progress I should say is it's almost
1:04:25like like a nuclear reaction in that one once it gets started it is going to keep spiraling
1:04:35and there is nothing that you can do to kind of hold this back as long as you have groups of people anywhere in the
1:04:42world this is the kind of reaction that is going to occur and it takes place faster
1:04:47and the situation with trying to to ban or limit technology
1:04:52or what I mentioned in the video is talking about unions try to do the same thing to hold back the progress.
1:04:59Society in some ways it's like a terrible way for anything you need.
1:05:03I don't mean that you can because I've always been told I hate these weekends
1:05:06and this forty hour work week is just terrible.
1:05:08But I meant to say but you know what I mean trying to limit the amount of jobs being lost
1:05:14and even to say you know in America you convinced the country to to legally prohibit something like the thing that I
1:05:24showed which is that the Baxter robot which is a very human like robot that can do a lot of very simple task in which
1:05:31they were just banning that kind of stuff. Yeah.
1:05:33Well
1:05:34and in the United States through its tremendous political pressure convinces its NATO allies to all join on board
1:05:40and then it starts leaning on you know the world organization the more people that you get to sign on to technology ban
1:05:47the more valuable the technology is to the countries that don't sign on.
1:05:52Yeah like that that's all you have done is make it more valuable for the people who don't want to participate in this
1:05:59ban. And then we're going to quarantine ourselves situation.
1:06:04Well now this is it is almost like you're talking about a totalitarian society is necessary to halt progress within its
1:06:14borders.
1:06:15Yeah you just you cannot possibly do that especially if people are traveling you know you are leaving the country
1:06:21and you come back you know then it's almost like a North Korea situation where you leave
1:06:26and you won't believe all the robots
1:06:28and the technology outside of this country borders like what you know I got I got to get a message back to my family to
1:06:33you know to make make a run for Mexico right.
1:06:36If the United States is completed I mean you know you make a good you make a joke about that about like a North Korean
1:06:41person being amazed by the technology outside their borders and at the moment that is a joke
1:06:46but the joke would turn the other way really quickly if in twenty years like you say they go from outside North Korea
1:06:52and all they see is riots in the Straits unemployed people in these wonderful technology. Yeah.
1:06:57So could the shoe could be on the other foot very quickly.
1:07:00Yes Yes And that is that is my concern and I
1:07:04and I I I really do think that the unemployment situation from automation is.
1:07:15I'm going to lay it out that I think this is one of the biggest challenges that humanity is going to face.
1:07:21That's what I think this is I think this is a big big deal
1:07:26and we are we often talk about how I don't really follow the news for example.
1:07:31It's because part of it is I think that the things that are talked about daily in the news like don't are not
1:07:36necessarily big scale things to worry about and from. So it's like this is the thing to be discussing.
1:07:43Now this you know this is this is a really big societal changing kind of thing that needs to be is this a bigger issue
1:07:50than like oil or like water supply and things like that.
1:07:54I would say so because those are those are issues of resource management.
1:08:00Which are all caught up in the nature of what is a level of technology available now.
1:08:06Those are those are definitely issues I'm not denying that they are
1:08:09but they are they are like a byproduct of the central issue which is technology
1:08:14and I've always held the opinion that technology is really the driving force behind history
1:08:19and I think we're really at one of these moments now where we just we need to be.
1:08:25I was saying on Twitter that people were taking my video as being very pessimistic
1:08:30and I didn't really mean it that way I was aiming for it to be quite neutral like to inform people about this issue.
1:08:37But I was trying very consciously to not have it be a Isn't this the most terrible thing in the world it was more like
1:08:44oh we need to talk about this kind of thing.
1:08:46And my my position really is that if we play our cards right this could be humanity's greatest moment.
1:08:54But my concern is that well we'll stuff it all up
1:08:57and end up with it like a riot in the streets situation so I want to see what just playing our cards right look like.
1:09:05Yeah that's a that's a difficult question isn't it.
1:09:10So here's here's here's the way I want to walk into this in the video I made a very conscious choice to not talk about
1:09:18potential solutions. At the end of that video you know I depend on you for solutions.
1:09:23That's what that's what it takes you all the time and if I don't put it off where should I go.
1:09:27I Phone cover should I buy. If you haven't got the answer.
1:09:31Well I mean this is this is a case where I'm going to I'm going to start before before I get to the end I might as well
1:09:36say right now that I don't have answers to this
1:09:38but here's the way I want to log into this is I've been kind of talking about this topic with people in my life
1:09:46and co-workers
1:09:48and just people of interest for a decade because this is just this is really been a great interest of mine
1:09:58and I've noticed it work.
1:10:00During a pattern in all of these conversations which is that getting people even on the on board the know this time is
1:10:10really different technological change is different from the agricultural revolution.
1:10:15Train is hard enough as it is
1:10:18and I was always really aware that if it if it then if the conversation even if I got them on board part one if we
1:10:26immediately dove into part two of the conversation which is what do we do.
1:10:30Suddenly what we're actually having is a conversation about contemporary politics. Yeah.
1:10:36Oh well now I'm talking about what is this person's feelings about political situations right now
1:10:43and then I often saw people undo changing their mind about technological problems because it disagreed with their
1:10:52politics as well as relates to the current situation right now.
1:10:57And so that's why I did not want to connect those two parts because I've seen people unconvinced themselves often
1:11:03enough
1:11:05when what you know so much out of denial like I say I suddenly they're confronted with something else they don't like
1:11:09and that is the head in the sand. Yeah well you know every everybody does this which is you.
1:11:17It is very much human nature when you're kind of forced to draw a conclusion that you don't like to then go back
1:11:23and try to change the premises that that brought you to this location
1:11:27and in my experience the way it has worked much better
1:11:31when talking to people is get them on board the automation train and just kind of leave it
1:11:38and then it sinks in with people
1:11:41and then you can have a much better conversation about well what are we going to try to do for this sort of thing
1:11:47and be a pain but what are we going to do.
1:11:51Well I guess I think that maybe you haven't thought about it because you haven't had enough conversations out of those
1:11:56ten years long enough. I have definitely thought about it but.
1:12:00Here here is the change that I think needs to happen in people's minds is we need to stigmatize particular feelings
1:12:15about the unemployed.
1:12:18And that's that's a big issue because right now most people I talk to even
1:12:25when we were recording this it's the middle of a recession which let me circle back to later.
1:12:31People have very negative feelings towards the unemployed that oh you know why why aren't they working.
1:12:38Why don't they find a job why don't they try harder to find a job.
1:12:42And those feelings can always be true for an individual.
1:12:48Everybody has like a cousin Earl who's just you know never never tries very hard anything is a total bomb
1:12:55and isn't looking for work and is just like a total mooch on society. Everybody knows somebody like that.
1:13:01Your cousin doesn't listen I don't think you listen. But there are always individuals like that.
1:13:08I don't deny that that's the case.
1:13:09Yeah but it's a very different case when you start looking structurally at the whole economy and I think we are we are.
1:13:17The reason why in part the reason why I made this video now is I think we really are in the beginning phases of this
1:13:22thing called structural unemployment where people just will not be able to find a job.
1:13:28It doesn't matter how good the economy goes.
1:13:31And under those circumstances I think we have to start viewing people not as unemployed with the implication that oh if
1:13:40they only tried harder they could find jobs that don't exist.
1:13:44Given their set of skills
1:13:47and instead we have to look at them as almost as unemployable that there is there is nothing that this person can do to
1:13:57support themselves given their.
1:14:00Our ability
1:14:00and given the current level of technology that they cannot outcompete a machine in the things that they're able to do
1:14:07that are economically productive.
1:14:09And so OK so like we're here we are we're walking towards this right
1:14:13and then at this stage if you come along to this point and agree that certain kinds of people are unemployable.
1:14:20The question we have to ask ourselves is well are we going to help those people or are we going to say tough luck.
1:14:31You get to starve to death on the streets because you are not economically viable.
1:14:35And the way I have phrased that you might feel where which we have with that is I mean you know if society is anything
1:14:42society is about setting the minimum standards below which we will not let people fall.
1:14:49If people are unemployable do we help them or do we leave them on their own and my position is that we help them.
1:14:56But that that's what society is. You don't just you don't just abandon people because they're not economically viable.
1:15:05They're still people.
1:15:07So that like this is where we are this is where we walk into but then this not are not totally how capitalism works.
1:15:13Yeah but see this is this is the moment
1:15:15when in many of these conversations it starts becoming like so are you a socialist boy feel like.
1:15:23No I'm not a socialist I this is this is not my like I haven't been sneakily trying to turn it over into the Soviet
1:15:32States of America like this is not this is not my secret plan here but
1:15:36but my my the reason why I think that happens is because people look at it with the current economic situation
1:15:44and they look at the current things.
1:15:46So what do you want to do do you want to raise taxes right now to pay for all of these people
1:15:51and my position is I'm not talking about right now. What I'm talking about is as the unemployment rate rises.
1:16:00What are we going to do.
1:16:02Because my my thought on this is that the current level of technology that we are in it increases income inequality
1:16:12and so if you have increasing amounts of automation what you should find as a society is that there are fewer
1:16:20and fewer people who are collecting basically more and more of the resources of the society
1:16:26and I don't even mean that on an individual level. I even mean that on a company level.
1:16:31Yes the one of the things that is very fascinating.
1:16:34There's a book that people should should check I mean there are many books on the subject
1:16:38but one of which is particular interesting is called Average is over by Tyler Cowen I think is how you say his last
1:16:44name and he goes through and talks about what two new companies look like.
1:16:51And one of the things that is very interesting is saying OK let's take a look at the companies on the Fortune five
1:16:55hundred list. And over the last twenty years in particular.
1:17:01The number of employees per revenue dollar generated that ratio has just skyrocketed.
1:17:08So you have companies like Apple which have relatively very very few employees
1:17:13but Apple is sitting on the world's most gigantic pile of money they have they have so much money
1:17:19but their company is very very few people.
1:17:22Whereas when you go back in time
1:17:23and you look at the biggest companies in the world you know in the one nine hundred sixty S. I think it was G.E.
1:17:28and It was Ford and they employed hundreds of thousands of people. But Apple is like two thousand people.
1:17:36It's some comically small amount of people and it's hugely more profitable than those old companies were
1:17:42and it's the same with a just a ton of companies on the Fortune five hundred.
1:17:46So this is what I mean by a kind of income inequality I don't even just mean particularly rich doods
1:17:50but just tiny companies can and UPS are absorbing an enormous amount of wealth.
1:17:56So what's going to happen to Apple when there's only five people left on earth that can afford.
1:18:00An i Phone because we're all starving in the streets
1:18:02and punching each other in the face as income inequality rises because of automation
1:18:10and because you have large numbers of unemployed.
1:18:13The only way to avert the riots is that you have to start talking about providing a minimum level of security to the
1:18:24people who are unemployed or the people who are unemployable. That is the like.
1:18:29Let's keep the wheels on the cart solution because as I said before I think you can't you can't stop companies from
1:18:36becoming more efficient.
1:18:38But if you leave that indefinitely you can end up in that giant pit of doom where there are riots in the streets.
1:18:43So you need some kind of countervailing force to that.
1:18:47So I know you're trying to sort of be you chew on the issue and you know you're not claiming to have all the answers
1:18:52but to push you a bit more make you president gray for just a little bit longer.
1:18:56KING I need to be king in these situations I need unilateral control with military force behind me.
1:19:02Because on one hand it feels a bit like you're saying this is happening people. Stop stop ignoring it.
1:19:07You know these cars are driving in California right now.
1:19:10But on the other hand you're using a lot of language like we need to start thinking about we need to think about the
1:19:15future you know we don't need to do anything now but we need to start thinking about what we do.
1:19:20It says to me that we need to be doing something now. I guess that's what we need to be doing now I guess.
1:19:25I guess this is for for the historical record my need to be thinking about a time scale is basically between now
1:19:33and the point at which self driving cars are legal on the road not that quick that by the sounds of it yes that is what
1:19:41I mean by that we need to be thinking about.
1:19:43I am not putting the we need to be thinking about this for five years kind of issue
1:19:47and I literally mean this like today. So what do we need to do do we need to.
1:19:52Should we be connecting a huge pension pot of money for all these future unemployed over what I really think that the
1:19:59starting. Point is the D. Stigmatization of of the unemployed.
1:20:04Because I think if you can't get past that point you have no political capital to get anything done that is what it
1:20:11where I see the most resistance comes from is people thinking oh I'm not going to support those lazy people who you
1:20:17know who who aren't working and I have a job why can't they get a job and if you could you could pass a law
1:20:23or increase a tax rate or do something to change us.
1:20:26No You know you can not at all and that's that's why you can't change people's opinions with a law
1:20:33but I think people who will listen to the show are aware that I am often very deeply cynical
1:20:38and pessimistic about making meaningful change in the world I am not very optimistic about lots of those things even
1:20:45though I am the guy who is known for making videos about how the voting system should be changed because I'm very much
1:20:52aware that you just don't have.
1:20:56The people who control those leavers of power are few
1:20:59and so talking about a whole bunch of issues doesn't do anything to help those issues.
1:21:03Yeah but this to me is much more like it's almost much more like a social issue and this is not the best comparison
1:21:11but the first of the popping to my mind it's like it's like gay marriage.
1:21:16The public sentiment shift on gay marriage has been remarkably quick compared to changes that have happened in the past.
1:21:25Yeah
1:21:25and I actually I would bet that that's also a side effect of of just like technology like the Internet allowing people
1:21:33to organize much better than they ever could have before
1:21:36and people being exposed much more easily to people who are different from them.
1:21:41But the government couldn't pass a law that said everybody has to be OK with gay marriage
1:21:46but none the less because it has been talked about so much in the media.
1:21:51We have moved to this position where people are much much more on board with what gay marriage is
1:21:57and that was not a that was not a legal thing.
1:22:00That was just let's be aware of this as an issue thing
1:22:05and so that's why I feel like I can make a video that is about this
1:22:08and in some little way like I'm trying to contribute to a conversation of being aware that people are not able to work
1:22:17not because they're lazy
1:22:18but through no fault of their own that it that I said that's a marriage thing only became such a talking point because
1:22:26people some people holding Laver's either started doing things
1:22:30or started coming under pressure today things like It's not like we just it's not like someone's decided let's talk
1:22:36about it on the Internet and then that happened for a year or two
1:22:40and then the politicians said oh OK now we can start changing the rose like it does it does start at the top in some
1:22:47ways and it feels like there does need to be. Some one somewhere.
1:22:51Starting to pass laws or do things in this area for that conversation to stop or at least.
1:22:58And they see people at the top saying we're thinking about changing the rules what do you all think.
1:23:03Yeah I think social change is one of the few things that starts at the bottom.
1:23:07The only reason anyone in power is even going to put that put that message out into the air of hey we're thinking about
1:23:14doing the obviously right thing
1:23:16and legalizing gay marriage would do you think about that my political base they would never even float that idea if it
1:23:23wasn't already something that was in the ether as it were that is being discussed by people that is clearly an issue
1:23:30that you know politicians don't decide to float ideas like just for the hell of it that you know they're they're trying
1:23:35to test something to see if they're going to get reelected or not.
1:23:40And so that's why I really do think that the first the first step is understanding that unemployment now is very
1:23:48different. Right. There is this thing that I put a link in the show notes but it is. It's a chart that I think.
1:24:00Again an example of showing us what is happening over time with the economy.
1:24:05I'll paint a word picture now and it's a chart that shows G.D.P.
1:24:11Gross domestic product adjusted for time from one nine hundred fifty until basically now
1:24:16and pretty much just a line you know up in to the right there's a couple of dips but the trend is upward.
1:24:22The other line is something called labor productivity which means how how much money do you get out of every employee
1:24:29you have if you are a company basically and the same thing happened to the right
1:24:34and that is that is also a side effect of technology.
1:24:36You give your workers better technology they can do more stuff that's great but the other line is employment
1:24:43and the employment line goes right along with the other two basically until about the early two thousands
1:24:52and then from early two thousand until now. That line is basically flat.
1:24:58The on the employment rate has not increased in basically a decade. Thank you.
1:25:05Now the interesting thing about this graph is that basically as far as we have economic records this is never occurred
1:25:12before that when you have ups and downs in the economy you have recessions you have depressions G.D.P.
1:25:20Productivity and employment all go down at the same time and they all go up at the same time.
1:25:27But what this shows is that we can literally see in the economy that in some ways like companies are now decoupled from
1:25:35the people that they employ that companies are doing much better through automation technology.
1:25:41But employment is just flat flat for a decade. Their fortunes are handcuffed to the footsoldiers anymore.
1:25:48Yes And I mean this is one of the things that I think is really interesting is you know we've been in this recession
1:25:56for quite a while now. But if you look around the world is still spinning.
1:26:00If this is the supermarkets are full of food.
1:26:03There's stuff to buy on the shelves that were not in some world that is is filled with hardship and woe.
1:26:10But if you go back to previous recessions and depressions you think about the Great Depression.
1:26:16It is characterized by a shortage of things.
1:26:19There is not enough food there are not enough clothes and this is that this is kind of like workers
1:26:25and the companies are tied together.
1:26:28But now that's not the case and that's one of things I think is just so different about this is
1:26:32when you talk about automation you are talking about machines that are able to produce all of the things that we want.
1:26:39We have we still have food we have i Phones We have all of this stuff
1:26:42but you just don't need people to make as many things as you did before.
1:26:47And so that this this graph I think is particularly terrifying just to see that like the economy is taking off without
1:26:56the humans being involved.
1:27:00Today sponsor is audible dot com the leading provider of spoken audio information
1:27:04and entertainment listen to audio books whenever and wherever you want.
1:27:07Today's audio book is relevant to the conversation because it's one of the books I used while researching the video
1:27:13that I just made. It's called Average is over by Tyler Cowen.
1:27:18It's an interesting book because it's a little bit different from some of the other materials that I was researching
1:27:22while putting together the video because it talks a lot about what is going to happen during this transition phase as
1:27:30our economy switches from requiring humans to do just about everything into a world that is increasingly automated.
1:27:37But his focus isn't on the automation it's about what is going to happen to the shape of the labor force as this comes
1:27:45into effect. That may sound terribly boring as I'm describing it now but it is a very very interesting book.
1:27:52And honestly if you're in the workforce right now it's probably a good book to pick up to just get some ideas about
1:27:58what is going to happen structure.
1:28:00Really to the economy within the five year time frame and I don't know if everybody is aware of this
1:28:05but audible is an Amazon company and they have a feature where if you are like me say very interested in a book
1:28:12and researching it you can get the audiobook version and then you can also get the Kindle version and audible
1:28:18and Amazon will synchronize your location between the two of them so this is actually a book that I partially listen to
1:28:24an audio book form and partly read and more importantly I could highlight and bookmark very easily
1:28:30and have everything sync back and forth.
1:28:32While I was listening to the audio book so that was really valuable
1:28:35and it's one of the reasons why I quite like using audible books especially for stuff that for me anyway is work
1:28:42related so if you're a student as well you might also be interested in using this feature from audible.
1:28:46I find it very helpful. I hope you will as well. So that is my recommendation for this week.
1:28:51Averages over by Tyler Cowen when you sign up to audible you can get that book for free.
1:28:57So if you want to listen to it audible has it with over one hundred fifty thousand titles
1:29:01and virtually every genre you'll find what you're looking for.
1:29:04Get a free audio book and a thirty day trial today by signing up at Audible dot com slash hello internet.
1:29:09All one word that's audible dot com slash hello internet. And there will also be a link in the show notes.
1:29:17Why are you so interested in this what you say even talking about if it's been a ten year discussion that it's clearly
1:29:23a video that was a very thought out and you know and well thought out this is obviously really important.
1:29:30Are you scared for yourself for the first draft of this video with a flour mill section was an hour
1:29:35and I had to burn the whole thing and then I got it to start over. Well who are you scared for.
1:29:43And is this a person you personally scared or resist just President.
1:29:47King graving aphoristic and worrying about his his subjects.
1:29:51Well you know I'm I'm worried about society as a whole for this one I guess.
1:30:00One of the things that I see in all the comments is people are asking what job is safe from automation
1:30:06and you know I want to know what your what job to get
1:30:09and my perspective is like that is that is really beside the issue because it's quite selfish.
1:30:17Well
1:30:18but it's not it's not even that it's a question of if we don't handle this right it doesn't matter if you have a stick
1:30:24it doesn't matter if you have a job they can't be unemployed if this is how he around you is crumbling.
1:30:31If I expect it doesn't matter if you got a nice ass if someone's throwing a brick through the window.
1:30:34That's exactly and I think that that is probably one of the best leverage to kind of poll
1:30:42when we talk about trying to actually implement change in the future.
1:30:46Like hey rich person I know you know I might not want your taxes to go up
1:30:49but you know since this whole technological change thing came along
1:30:52and your wealth has increased twenty thousand percent through automation. Well.
1:30:57It's not going to be worth a whole lot to you if the world is starving and people just you know tear down your gates
1:31:03and I So I think
1:31:04when people talk about what job should I get that a say from automation it's a bit of like I think you
1:31:11and I are relatively safe.
1:31:12The entertainment industry is a relatively safe place to be
1:31:16and it doesn't really matter that you even if you have a job that you think is incredibly safe from automation this is
1:31:24still a problem for you because it it it affects absolutely everyone.
1:31:29I guess the place where this this started for me is back
1:31:35when I was a young lad in college I came across a book called genetic programming Volumes one two
1:31:44and three I got called codes
1:31:47and those were amazing books about computer programming there was always this alternate life that I wonder about where
1:31:53I had become a computer programmer instead of becoming a physics teacher that was a possibility.
1:32:00But these books were amazingly eye opening to me because what they were was well the thing that I talked about very
1:32:07briefly in the video was not how to write a computer program
1:32:12but how to write a program that can figure out on its own the solution to some kind of problem which just blew my mind
1:32:23that this kind of thing was even possible.
1:32:25And I just devoured those books and I was playing around with all the source code
1:32:30and I really think there is a version of my life that might have gone much more down that route because I just I just
1:32:36found it absolutely fascinating
1:32:37and you can talk about how this works is just so beyond the scope of an audio podcast to talk about this but.
1:32:45Just very briefly I'll say that you can talk about it it does one of two things either simulates the way the human
1:32:50brain does stuff with kind of pretended neurons in the computer that you can show things
1:32:55and teach it yes this was right no this was right
1:32:58and this this network of neurons learns on its own which is just amazing to see.
1:33:04Or you do something where you basically you have an artificial environment in which you create a bunch of random
1:33:10programs and you let you basically run evolution on that you let them breed with each other
1:33:15and produce child programs and you measure how effective those child programs are
1:33:19and then you keep running generations on this and you can come up with programs that can solve things.
1:33:24And the interesting thing is that you as the programmer have no idea how it works.
1:33:29That was a thing that I found the most amazing was I well I would type up a program
1:33:34and I would let the computer run overnight
1:33:35and so I'd come up you know in the morning it would be something like twenty thousand generations of digital programs
1:33:40had lived and died and there was some program that could solve a problem for me and I would look at it
1:33:45and go nope no idea how it has worked. I can't even remotely figure out how it works.
1:33:51It's thousands and thousands of lines of code long. It's just impossible but I found that really fascinating and.
1:34:01That we that was for me was it was when I was like whoa. This this is a big deal because you've glimpsed the power.
1:34:10Yeah
1:34:10and this is again the case where you overestimate change in the short term because at that point I thought like man this
1:34:17is going to storm the world just immediately
1:34:19and the answer is it has not except that basically now a lot of these things are really coming into their own because
1:34:28the computing technology has gotten fast enough that it was it was really a we need computers to be ten years faster in
1:34:35order to do some of this stuff in a in a realistic way the problems I was having it solve were very very simple
1:34:40but that was the thing that really sparked my interest in this and just realizing boy.
1:34:45Anybody who's job is to sit at a computer and manipulate things entirely digitally.
1:34:52Their jobs are really in danger
1:34:55and that's the one thing I didn't talk about in the video because it's not as easy to show visually.
1:35:00It's so easy to talk about oh these factory workers and these truck drivers are all going to lose their jobs.
1:35:08But I actually think that the people at the biggest risk are not blue collar workers
1:35:13but it is white collar workers people who do just work at a computer all day long.
1:35:18If you are a plumber if you are an electrician if you if you have any kind of job
1:35:24or part of your job is to go into somebody else's house or to deal with humans in a very direct way.
1:35:31Those jobs tend to be blue collar jobs
1:35:33and I think those jobs are relatively safe in terms of protection from automation.
1:35:40But if your whole job is sitting at a computer I guarantee you if your company is big enough they have hired an
1:35:45automation engineer who was working to get rid of your jobs
1:35:48and I have gotten a bunch of anonymous e-mails from very very guilty automation engineers who feel terrible that this
1:35:58is what they what they have.
1:36:00Do they like yes I work it's funny and I'm in the basement and nobody knows I'm here
1:36:06and I am I am basically required every quarter to be able to automate some portion of the work force that is happening
1:36:13in the gigantic building above me.
1:36:15You remind me of a great story that that is probably long enough ago now that I can risk telling it
1:36:21and all of the people involved including myself and my mates
1:36:24and high enough up food chains that we can risk the story getting out. I mean treatment.
1:36:31When I first started as a cadet journalist on a newspaper one of the lot.
1:36:37We would every three months we would change roles so you would get three months of doing you know getting to be like a
1:36:43news reporter with the police reporters
1:36:45and three months of you know in the business section writing business stories and things like that
1:36:51but also three month stints where you did really crummy jobs that just had to be done by you know by the mill
1:36:57and because you're a cadet journalist that was that was your thing. And one of them was reformatting the T.V. Guide.
1:37:03We would be sent from the T.V. Stations like their their programs of what shows were on what times for the UK the T.V.
1:37:10Magazine that was inserted in the newspaper every week and we had to go through
1:37:14and make all the correct style like the time of the show had to be in bold
1:37:19and the rating of the show whether it was suitable for children and that had to be in italics
1:37:23and it was a really really menial boring job and it was a week long job.
1:37:27You would usually by Friday you would finish reformatting the T.V. Program so it could be printed inside in the paper.
1:37:34So in a way this mate of mine he was pretty clever with computers used there were that there were kind of you know
1:37:40algorithms that screwed computer system could run but no one really knew how they worked.
1:37:45Think memory case and you could press a case and it would run a quick script
1:37:50and he figured out a way to completely automate this job so you would just have the program get scanned in
1:37:58and all the text was there.
1:38:00And he could just press one or two of these memory case and he would automatically identify the times
1:38:05and make them BOWDEN The sort of thing that people can easily do now but at the time
1:38:10but at the time you know I ten no longer than ten fifteen years ago this was this was cutting edge
1:38:16but it was kept a secret that we had figured out how to do this you know I think it was like when
1:38:23when your three month stint came to do the T.V.
1:38:25Programs you were like like like Harry Potter being given his life without a Marauder's Map.
1:38:31You were taken aside
1:38:32and told you are not to tell anyone that we have cracked if all you have to do on Monday morning is the press let
1:38:39number and the rest of the week is yours to do with as you please.
1:38:44That it had and I would you know go to the movies or play table tennis games
1:38:48and it became the secret the secret past him and it was a great example of automation completely making a job done.
1:38:56But we kept We kept the fact that our job had been made redundant a secret.
1:39:00Yes from the from the boss and say I'm sure that job is not redundant but I was happy it was good to get
1:39:07and it's funny that I have I have run across a number of examples of computer programmers who are who have told similar
1:39:15tales where they have basically said oh yes I have figured out how to automate my own job and I'll just sitting quiet.
1:39:22Once but I like I like that you like this idea of a rotating secret society of taking someone aside
1:39:29and I think that's great.
1:39:33That's really going to go I hit the guy he did is now really really senior in the company like he's one of the most
1:39:38senior managers in the company so I'll have to send in this and tell him that you have to say I think
1:39:43and his staff are doing that. I'm sure he'd be very upset if you could get rid of the record of what they see.
1:39:49It says we could possibly talk about this some more I'm sure there's going to be lots of lots more say that now
1:39:54and you read it and things like that so yeah I'm sure the next podcast follow up will be.
1:40:00Significant I think we should quickly talk about with the former take you our former teacher you've mentioned that yeah
1:40:06we did assign homework but are you going to do a trade here for the for the business and let them off the homework.
1:40:14I am going to do something which I did very often as a teacher which is trying to wait until the last possible minute
1:40:26and then be like oh the bells just gone. I wanted to collect your homework.
1:40:32I really didn't but I can't do it right now. Off you go and I will see you next week.
1:40:37Students former students of mine I can pretty much guarantee any time I forgot to collect homework I almost very rarely
1:40:45actually forgot to collect homework.
1:40:47And I guarantee you that the same is true with a whole bunch of your teachers just because you didn't want to.
1:40:51Yeah basically I was I was part of my eternal strategy to reduce the volume of homework that ever passed through my
1:40:58hands. No other teachers have done a similar thing like oh let me forget and then I didn't assign homework this time.
1:41:06Although I have to say I did have kids who are just like the kids on T.V.
1:41:11and Everybody's had this in the class goes well Miss Grey you didn't assign the homework right
1:41:15or who tried to warn you before the bell is going to come up.
1:41:19What collect our homework plays we haven't when I don't and I spent all night doing it or.
1:41:23Oh
1:41:23but you didn't give us any homework assignment for you know for this time I don't like those kids just as much as everybody
1:41:29else in the class.
1:41:32Listen you're not you're not playing along here right where you're all better off if I forget to collect the homework.
1:41:40Everybody wins.
1:41:41It never occurred to me as a student that the teacher actually was on the same team as me
1:41:45and this is every thought about you know I think about that when you're a kid.
1:41:49Yeah kids do not understand like you and the teacher are on the same page.
1:41:55The kids are viewing this as an adversarial role as a you do not understand how much we're on the same page so.
1:42:00Yes I'm going to forget to collect homework now
1:42:03and you have a one extra week to watch Black Mirror which you should because it is amazing that asking people to watch
1:42:11all the episodes of black Marilyn Are there specific ones you want them to watch I think you should watch them all
1:42:15because they're made or six of them.
1:42:17Series one series two three episodes with anything else you wanted to you were told I could talk about robots forever
1:42:22but we'll talk about more and more in the future as it comes up naturally if it does
1:42:26but was there anything else you want to talk about no I mean this is there's lots going on
1:42:30but there's nothing that can't wait for Episode twenty and the finale of series to Yes Esther
1:42:36and I have to be honest I don't mind. Well actually I was about to say making this episode.
1:42:41Shorter
1:42:42but I just realize we've been recording for about two hours now because I don't mind making this absurd shorter just
1:42:47because I'm at my wits end absolutely exhausted
1:42:52and still trying to have a bunch of really stressful projects to get done as fast as possible
1:42:57and then I need to take a vacation so I do not mind having a shorter one well let's stop recording so you can start.