Hello Internet

H.I. #19: Pit of Doom


00:00:00   We waited so I remember when we were about to record the first episode of series one I said to introduce ourselves [TS]

00:00:12   and like say who we are you know in case people have no idea who we are which is incredibly likely [TS]

00:00:19   and you know you said no and you made a very compelling case for not introducing ourselves in episode one. [TS]

00:00:26   So we did so we did and now that episode nine tain you're saying we should introduce ourselves. [TS]

00:00:34   I am I am [TS]

00:00:35   but I have a reason for that which is today we have been featured on the i Tunes store so there is a greater likelihood [TS]

00:00:43   that there are people who are listening to this episode as their first episode who really have no idea who we are who [TS]

00:00:50   just clicked on a gray high button at the top of i Tunes and I'm listening for the first time. [TS]

00:00:55   Hello welcome if that's you alone so I think that this is a this is a good chance to maybe do a little bit of an [TS]

00:01:01   introduction. I guess how would you describe your job to people what is it that you do. [TS]

00:01:06   Brady nah nah I'm not falling for that. [TS]

00:01:09   When you when you said that way we had to introduce ourselves I specifically said that you have to go first. [TS]

00:01:15   Like I was trying to cut you off there trying to get rid of whatever your plan is nine and there is no plan. [TS]

00:01:21   There is just I just don't want to sit and either talk about myself for like twenty five minutes [TS]

00:01:26   and I have you say I'm great I'm at You Tube videos or I don't want to talk about myself for like eight seconds [TS]

00:01:32   and then have you talk for three hours about you know their childhood was like I want to use that line I want to know. [TS]

00:01:39   OK OK All right let me who you do you come here often. [TS]

00:01:43   Yes I do come to this corner of the Internet quite often I see to be great [TS]

00:01:46   and I guess the most concise way to describe what I do now for a living is that I make informative youtube videos that [TS]

00:01:55   people watch is that the way I would describe what I do but I always find it a little bit. [TS]

00:02:00   Strange trying to describe what it is that I do [TS]

00:02:03   and I find it very awkward in some social situations sometimes those kind of why I actually want to know how do you [TS]

00:02:09   handle this situation. What do you do. Describe describe your job for me now. [TS]

00:02:14   Like I'm a person who doesn't know you at all if it's a stranger like someone cutting my hair or something [TS]

00:02:20   and they ask why I usually say I make You Tube videos because everyone knows what huge it is [TS]

00:02:26   and then if they ask what kind of You Tube videos I say kind of science the educational ones. [TS]

00:02:35   Sometimes they're about math so chemistry and stuff sometime in the just about cool stuff. [TS]

00:02:41   And then after that I kind of see where it goes from there but I just say I make You Tube videos [TS]

00:02:46   and people people don't really care what other people. [TS]

00:02:50   People just not talk about themselves so I just give them the bare minimum [TS]

00:02:55   and if they really care they can ask more questions [TS]

00:02:58   and then you know like anyone I'll talk about myself for ever if they want me to I remember I was going through US [TS]

00:03:05   Customs not that long ago and I like going to U.S. [TS]

00:03:09   Customs because they want immigration I should say because they always ask lots of questions about yourself [TS]

00:03:15   and then like I have to and it's really nice like you know they're like What do you do You Tube videos [TS]

00:03:19   or what kind of videos and they ask like where you've been and what you doing in the country [TS]

00:03:23   and they're like they seem really interested buddies. [TS]

00:03:28   If it was like that sometimes and then and then it all ends very abruptly they like Ike [TS]

00:03:32   and I just had to pass go back and show you a way. [TS]

00:03:34   But recently I was I was going through it and this guy was like What do you do on that You Tube videos [TS]

00:03:41   and then he was putting like videos on You Tube and I'm not now it's pretty easy [TS]

00:03:46   and then he starts asking me all these technical questions and then he asked me about like Go Pro cameras [TS]

00:03:52   and it turns out he was really into like kayaking [TS]

00:03:56   and then he got his i Phone it out this is at the desk in immigration. [TS]

00:04:00   My friend showing me all his kayaking videos and ask me for tips on how he was filming them [TS]

00:04:05   and what he should do to put the minute we were led by these by the end of that I'm sure the people behind in the queue [TS]

00:04:10   were pretty cheesed off [TS]

00:04:11   but I musta been there for a good five ten minutes just watching videos on these I find this we are so different I [TS]

00:04:18   would find that both incredibly awkward and slightly terrifying. [TS]

00:04:24   I always want to get through that customs gate as fast as possible let me on the other side of this gate [TS]

00:04:30   when I'm on the I'm on the airplane side I'm not on the you are in the countryside I feel like there's only one good [TS]

00:04:36   outcome here which is walking through the gate [TS]

00:04:38   and there are many ways this can go wrong if the customs guy doesn't like you or if they just you know they're bored [TS]

00:04:44   and they want to send you to the special room right for interrogation. [TS]

00:04:47   I don't I don't like the situation at all [TS]

00:04:49   and if a guy was talking to me for it for a very long time I would just assume that he was stalling while the big beefy [TS]

00:04:57   guys with guns are going to come out and take me away to some other place I thought I was in the to the special. [TS]

00:05:02   That's exactly it. No one's ever stuck with a show kayaking videos on their phone. These people are never chit chatty. [TS]

00:05:08   The only thing I can assume is they're just all like so I would be I would be very nervous I would be very sweaty [TS]

00:05:14   and twitchy at a point like that and then of course they would feel the need to interrogate people [TS]

00:05:18   and it was that was why I love talking to you because I know I think I'm a really paranoid wearing person [TS]

00:05:22   and talk to you and I realize I'm pretty chilled out. [TS]

00:05:25   But I don't think that is paranoid [TS]

00:05:27   and worrying I think that that is the appropriate response to the situation of going through customs. [TS]

00:05:31   Many bad things [TS]

00:05:33   and only one good thing come out in that region the only time I was a little bit worried getting into the U.S. [TS]

00:05:39   Was not that long ago I made a video about how a lot mathematically how the N.S.A. [TS]

00:05:45   Was cracking into people's e-mails just about like the mathematics behind it was no political agenda it was just a [TS]

00:05:50   geeky video but that was the first time it occurred to me maybe making that video has put my name on some watch list [TS]

00:05:56   and next time I go to the counter that is going to say. Now we don't want troublemakers like you a lot you know. [TS]

00:06:04   You're not patriotic or anything and that we're going to but nothing happen. Getting back to what you do. [TS]

00:06:09   So when you say I make in these informative videos where does conversation usually go from there. [TS]

00:06:15   Well I'm realizing that I might be taking the wrong strategy here because I know in person I don't really like to talk [TS]

00:06:22   about what I do I feel like I would I would much rather move past this part of the conversation [TS]

00:06:27   and maybe it is it's just like the customs situation. [TS]

00:06:30   Maybe people can sense that because it seems to me that people are always very interested in what I do [TS]

00:06:35   and I end up trying to give the answers or answers that are sort of true but not exactly true [TS]

00:06:42   and then trying to move the conversation right along with them people are much more interested the way I would actually [TS]

00:06:46   describe it right now. I make informative You Tube videos for a living. [TS]

00:06:51   That's that's kind of what makes it sound like you know [TS]

00:06:53   when you're like like safety videos like what should you do in an earthquake or how to have how to brush your teeth [TS]

00:07:01   and things like that and like I don't want to pick you up or anything [TS]

00:07:05   but I think if there are they are a bit better than that maybe [TS]

00:07:09   but less helpful I would say my videos are definitely less helpful than that. I'm not conveying any useful advice. [TS]

00:07:19   I mean I guess I guess usually my videos are about I don't know geography I guess is a large part of what my videos are [TS]

00:07:26   about [TS]

00:07:26   but they're not on any particular set topic they're just there to sort of explaining something that I think is interesting [TS]

00:07:32   and that I hope other people will think I would I will go [TS]

00:07:36   and then you couldn't do this because it would it would sound too much like bragging but I thought I was you. [TS]

00:07:43   If I was describing what you do I would probably add a few words to your description I would say he makes like like [TS]

00:07:49   quirky youtube videos about you know trivial but fun things unique it was quirky [TS]

00:07:57   and trivia in there to to make it sound like. [TS]

00:08:00   It's like something that's worthy or something you have to watch in a workshop at your new job. [TS]

00:08:05   Yeah I guess it's funny as we're doing this this this little section here now I realize I've never just I've never been [TS]

00:08:10   in a situation where I really want to big up what I do. [TS]

00:08:14   I haven't really given any public presentations [TS]

00:08:16   or anything about what I'm doing so I haven't needed to write a formal interview. [TS]

00:08:20   I guess that most of the time I find myself that I like social gatherings is trying to avoid the issue which as you [TS]

00:08:25   mentioned people like to talk about themselves [TS]

00:08:28   and my usual trick for getting around this in a conversation with somebody else. [TS]

00:08:33   Go for as long as you possibly can without asking the other person what it is they do. [TS]

00:08:41   And it's surprisingly hard to do that. [TS]

00:08:43   But I use this to my advantage in social situations where I don't really want to talk about my job [TS]

00:08:48   and so I will refuse to ask what the other person does for a living. Forcing them to make the first move. [TS]

00:08:57   So they say oh what do you do for a living [TS]

00:08:59   and then I can say I kind of stumbled through a terrible explanation that doesn't hopefully sound very interesting. [TS]

00:09:04   And then immediately end with. And what do you do for a living. And hopefully that avoids any follow up questions. [TS]

00:09:11   And often that works. [TS]

00:09:13   Why do you not want to tell people what you did you know you do a good thing and you're successful at it. [TS]

00:09:18   It's strange working on the Internet. [TS]

00:09:20   I feel like I'm a relatively private person and then [TS]

00:09:24   when you do something that is on the Internet in public that everybody can see it sometimes leads to strange situations. [TS]

00:09:32   So I had a couple of times when I was starting in my You Tube career [TS]

00:09:35   and I was much more upfront about what do you do while I make You Tube videos for a living. [TS]

00:09:40   There were a couple of well let's gather everybody around the computer and watch your youtube videos right now [TS]

00:09:46   and I situations and that I find just horrifyingly awkward. [TS]

00:09:52   I dodged a bullet at a family reunion once with that there was a live Cather all of these people who you don't know. [TS]

00:10:00   Anything about yet you've just walked in the door [TS]

00:10:02   but there are going to be maybe thirty people who want to watch now what you do for a living. [TS]

00:10:07   On the screen and we're all going to then talk about it so it's so uncomfortable. [TS]

00:10:12   Something like that so that's that's one reason why I think I have toned down necessarily talking about what I do with [TS]

00:10:18   with people that I don't know as I don't want this to be. [TS]

00:10:21   Oh really tell me your Web site let me let me look at at at your work life is it's very very strange I think being a [TS]

00:10:28   working on the Internet where everybody can see what you do. [TS]

00:10:31   It feels strange sometimes so that's kind of why I avoid it [TS]

00:10:35   but don't you don't you have sometimes if people ask to see your You Tube video I mean by then are probably are a shine [TS]

00:10:41   about five videos of my greyhounds they're probably sick. Yeah but I'm going to spend it. [TS]

00:10:47   I think I think maybe I should try adopting your strategy which is to sound really into my own job [TS]

00:10:54   and then people won't want to hear about it at all. [TS]

00:10:58   Oh let me show you some of my videos people will be like oh wait let me get a refill on my drink first [TS]

00:11:02   or I wander off to the kitchen and then they won't want to see a lot maybe that's a better strategy of my own [TS]

00:11:06   and I might want to try that. [TS]

00:11:07   I have caught one photo on my phone that I [TS]

00:11:10   and I have like in a folder that I can get to quickly because it comes in really handy when [TS]

00:11:15   when you have to talk about your work because because the problem is you work doesn't you know you can say I'm a bit [TS]

00:11:21   boring and geeky when you start talking about science and things about chemicals and mathematics [TS]

00:11:26   and that so you make videos with explosion. [TS]

00:11:30   Yeah that's true but the picture on my phone is when we went and filmed inside the Bank of England gold bullion vote [TS]

00:11:36   and the professor and I are standing in front of like all the billions and billions of pounds worth of gold. [TS]

00:11:42   So I say I do videos like about the elements in chemistry and things [TS]

00:11:46   and people are like how can you make that interesting. [TS]

00:11:49   I put the picture and look at this I don't have that's not interesting. [TS]

00:11:55   You've got it all cued up on your phone you're ready to just flash it right in there. [TS]

00:11:58   I wouldn't say I had a I wouldn't say I have it. [TS]

00:12:00   Cued up but [TS]

00:12:02   and it's only if the conversation gets to a certain level of interrogation that I that I pull out the photo in my [TS]

00:12:07   defense. [TS]

00:12:07   But but I certainly wouldn't show someone one of my videos at a party I think that would be pretty dull for them [TS]

00:12:14   but I find that I find if I say handy What are the other things is that if we're running a podcast because on this [TS]

00:12:20   podcast one of the things that we often talk about is our work lives [TS]

00:12:26   and so I do have this forum in a sense where I talk quite publicly about what I do [TS]

00:12:32   or the behind the scenes of how videos went or what I was thinking about when making them [TS]

00:12:36   and you do the same thing you talk about some stories behind your work so we have this hello internet podcast which is [TS]

00:12:42   sometimes about work sometimes it's about nothing very much at all sometimes we're just following up on things that [TS]

00:12:48   have happened before. We do seem I spent a lot of time talking about flags these days. [TS]

00:12:52   Well that was just one episode on a very surface that I might add it was that it was an episode and just a follow up [TS]

00:12:59   but that wasn't a real episode we have to do some more flag future yet I think the four new listeners who have made it [TS]

00:13:06   this far. [TS]

00:13:07   If you haven't if you if you've made it this far you probably haven't figured out where the stop button is quite [TS]

00:13:12   possible the show is called Hello Internet [TS]

00:13:14   and it is a little bit I think of it as like a conversation with the listeners. [TS]

00:13:18   We talk about stuff and then we read all the comments and the feedback [TS]

00:13:23   and is a very active forum where people participate and it's very much a back and forth with the audience [TS]

00:13:29   but I do think that the little bit of a running joke is that the show is really really should be called to do the [TS]

00:13:36   talking. Subtitle. It's not waffling It's an amazing amount of content. [TS]

00:13:42   So sometimes we do wonder on a little bit but we do sometimes get to the actual topics at the show [TS]

00:13:48   but that's that's what this part of I guess I don't know how would you describe the five years I feel like I just you [TS]

00:13:53   know I think it's just it is it's just take videos talking. But not necessarily about You Tube videos all the time. [TS]

00:14:02   True true. Hello Internet. [TS]

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00:16:00   Yeah [TS]

00:16:00   and I think we should break from tradition just because you know where is that maybe a couple of new people are listening. [TS]

00:16:05   Traditionally we start with a bit of follow up. [TS]

00:16:10   We haven't got a lot of follow up from previous episodes thankfully because we we cleared the decks with the last [TS]

00:16:16   episode's epic follow up two hours of yellow up there is there is zero follow up now [TS]

00:16:21   and I don't know if I just want you to know that the word humble brag which has been something we've talked about a bit [TS]

00:16:26   lately has apparently made it into the dictionary the is the Oxford English Dictionary [TS]

00:16:31   or one of those I was going to ask you which dictionary. Now who cares. [TS]

00:16:35   Once a year they have their they have their marketing stunt where they say here are five new words we put in the [TS]

00:16:40   dictionary. That's not a marketing stunt Brady that's that's them updating the language. Yeah whatever. [TS]

00:16:47   But how humble brick it did make it in. [TS]

00:16:49   Some people thought maybe it was because maybe they were reacting to it being on the podcast. [TS]

00:16:54   I'm sure I'm sure they were I'm sure they were. [TS]

00:16:56   We talked about it two weeks ago and then this week they decide it's time to put it in the dictionary. [TS]

00:17:01   I'm absolutely sure that's how that works. That's too much of a coincidence I think it must be us. [TS]

00:17:05   I think we can be much more much more confident about it when Brady typing the synonym for hunt [TS]

00:17:11   and peck typing makes it into the Oxford English Dictionary. [TS]

00:17:14   Then I think we can claim much more credit but all in all because they at least all they at least update [TS]

00:17:20   or add to the definition of free voting that will be that will be my crowning glory. [TS]

00:17:26   I will retire from trying to thrust new words upon the world [TS]

00:17:29   when that happens I had a little thing on Twitter a couple of days ago where I was I was trying to get people to come [TS]

00:17:35   up with two word humble breaks. [TS]

00:17:38   Could they make an entire humble brag into I'm not yeah I'm not going to harp on it [TS]

00:17:43   but what it did do is highlighted to me yet again that a lot of people haven't grasped what a humble brag is [TS]

00:17:52   and if you haven't go back [TS]

00:17:53   and listen to the last episode where Gray complains for a little bit too long about people not understanding it. [TS]

00:18:00   You must understand the humble brag is there must be the self deprecation. Was it too long. [TS]

00:18:05   I'm not entirely sure it was too long. [TS]

00:18:07   There were no actually it was raised in the concise that was unfair it was concise. [TS]

00:18:11   I'm trying to look it up now to see what Oxford it was the Oxford English Dictionary I want to see what they wrote for [TS]

00:18:17   the humble brag definition. Yeah let me just because of quickly that's a good idea actually. [TS]

00:18:22   I'll look at this I like this already OK so according to the Oxford English Dictionary it is an ostensibly modest [TS]

00:18:30   or self-deprecating statement whose actual purpose is to draw attention to something of which one is proud. [TS]

00:18:37   That's pretty much how we define that. [TS]

00:18:39   I think that is almost exactly our definition I do think that things are going from the show. [TS]

00:18:43   Yes there is a photo today. Yeah even. [TS]

00:18:48   Everybody even the use of ostensibly there which I think is is the real key word for yes right. [TS]

00:18:55   We didn't use that word does. I did use that word did I use that word. [TS]

00:18:59   That's why we can say that I used deprecating So together we joined forces to create that definition which was then [TS]

00:19:06   just shamelessly stolen by the Oxford English Dictionary in the space of a few days [TS]

00:19:11   and put into the dictionary Oxford English Dictionary. Thumbs up for me I like that a good definition yes. [TS]

00:19:16   Very good I was a little worried. [TS]

00:19:18   Thank you go into that dictionary thing for which I may be speaking of lists of words. [TS]

00:19:23   One other little piece of follow up last episode we talked about the list I was creating of swear words [TS]

00:19:31   and flag words [TS]

00:19:32   and words that cause problems problems in the You Tube comments that I was sort of using his watch words that I could [TS]

00:19:40   you know make sure nothing inappropriate was happening. [TS]

00:19:44   You were you were making basically a blacklist for words that people can't say in the comments. [TS]

00:19:50   I don't want to call it a blacklist I want to call it more a flag list because if those those words can be used [TS]

00:19:55   completely appropriately. I'll give you a very real example actually because. [TS]

00:20:00   Something I'm quite happy to talk about because the person involved has talked about it. [TS]

00:20:04   Professor Polly coffin my chemistry videos and parody videos has shaky hands [TS]

00:20:09   and it's just a family trait he hasn't a medical problem or anything. [TS]

00:20:14   A lot of people put all has this guy got you know Parkinson's [TS]

00:20:17   or something like that making inappropriate comments about his medical condition. [TS]

00:20:21   Haiti Haiti has spoken in videos about he said Don't worry everyone I know got shaky hands. My health is fine. [TS]

00:20:27   Stop worrying about it. But sometimes people make really inappropriate comments about it. [TS]

00:20:33   So for example I have in some cases put the word like Parkinson's or shaky into the into the on to the list [TS]

00:20:43   and that's not because I don't want people to use the word shaky [TS]

00:20:46   but if they are using the word shaky I think maybe I should have a quick look to make sure they haven't said his hands [TS]

00:20:53   are shaky and then go on into some diatribe about a bunch of inappropriate things. [TS]

00:20:59   So so it's not it's not blacklist it's you tell me what it is it's just a list of words for me to keep an eye on. [TS]

00:21:06   But also considering that you have thousands of videos [TS]

00:21:09   and tons of comments it is probably the best name for it is the enormous amount of work for Brady list of checking over [TS]

00:21:17   these coming. [TS]

00:21:18   You must have how many how many do you have a day to approve or check out how how much work is it for you. [TS]

00:21:24   I don't know because I don't go into every channel every day but it's no. [TS]

00:21:28   It's not it's not that because the list isn't that long. Which brings me to the follow up. Yeah. [TS]

00:21:33   Someone has him out in the list which I don't know if we're supposed to have this or not [TS]

00:21:39   but it's from a famous company and it's then a list of words that aren't allowed to be used in its kind of materials [TS]

00:21:49   and codes and things like that it's a it's a technology company and and it was sent in as a spreadsheet [TS]

00:21:55   and it's not just a list of words each word is apportioned. [TS]

00:22:00   Waiting of how bad it is and there's a big discussion of the word and there's actions to be taken if the word is found. [TS]

00:22:07   Under what circumstances is OK under what circumstances is it to be eliminated. And Anna is completely fascinating. [TS]

00:22:17   Yes So I've just opened up this spreadsheet that you sent me which is enormous. [TS]

00:22:24   The file sizes is one point four megabytes and it has a few thousand words on it. If I scroll down. [TS]

00:22:31   If I scroll down to the bottom of the spreadsheet on my computer here it's almost seven thousand words long words that [TS]

00:22:40   this company wants to check up on the last word on the list is the zipper sniffers which is offensive I guess it is [TS]

00:22:49   offensive [TS]

00:22:49   but if it was funny because word studding was that funny looking through it was part part of this is boy I did not know [TS]

00:22:58   how many words are offensive [TS]

00:23:00   and I'm learning so many new words from this list where there are not a lot of rude words [TS]

00:23:05   but words I have no idea what they mean and then I have to scroll over to the side and it doesn't. [TS]

00:23:12   It's irritating because this company does not it does not tell you what the word means it just tells you the action to [TS]

00:23:19   be taken under particular context and I'm looking at some of these I think. I don't I don't know what that word means. [TS]

00:23:25   I would like to know. [TS]

00:23:27   Sometimes it tells you it doesn't tell you like the definition it would just say ah this word is a profanity we don't [TS]

00:23:32   we don't accept words of this but that's with words that are rude [TS]

00:23:36   and that is a shame for us because we can't learn what these rude words mean [TS]

00:23:40   but there are some words where there is a very very long discussion of the word [TS]

00:23:46   and like like a C G P Great video scripts worth of discussion on the word for example. [TS]

00:23:54   Samoa is a word here on the list. So there's a lot of words that are to do with. [TS]

00:24:00   Politics or geography which I'm sure would take your fancy. [TS]

00:24:04   So you know regions or places where you know of the contentious places like the Falkland Islands and things. [TS]

00:24:12   But I've just I've just stumbled upon some out [TS]

00:24:15   and there's a whole little description about what's on the list you know the Protectorate of Germany some of what was [TS]

00:24:19   known as German some out of nine hundred nineteen fourteen. [TS]

00:24:22   When you see an occupied the arms are not in fourteen they became commonly known as Western Samoa. [TS]

00:24:27   So this whole long and it continues. [TS]

00:24:30   So this is so for countries or places where people could be offended by what you call. These are on the list as well. [TS]

00:24:38   So and there are also lots of [TS]

00:24:40   when I first started looking at the list another thing I noticed where there were lots of numbers on the list [TS]

00:24:45   and sometimes it was a number that like you know despair was a rude word like boobies or something like that. [TS]

00:24:54   But there are other ones that are to do with you know laws or codes that are used for drug use [TS]

00:24:59   and things like that so this is clearly a list that has been made over a long time [TS]

00:25:03   and a lot of thought has gone into it and it is interesting reading. [TS]

00:25:06   Yeah I would be I would be very curious to know how. [TS]

00:25:09   How many years worth of compilations of every possible piece of feedback they've ever gotten from any of their products [TS]

00:25:17   where someone says oh I don't like your use of this word in this situation and then someone goes [TS]

00:25:21   and adds another road to this enormous spreadsheet about what they should do under under particular circumstances. [TS]

00:25:27   Guess what I just found on the list was you find Holland Hollands How do you know about Holland it is to be left [TS]

00:25:34   unchanged under most circumstances but it is to be replaced with Netherlands [TS]

00:25:39   when is used to refer to the country of the Netherlands [TS]

00:25:43   and that is all the commonly used to refer to the country of the Netherlands Holland is actually only refers to the [TS]

00:25:49   western region of the Netherlands. [TS]

00:25:51   The two provinces in this region are called North Holland and supplement the official names of the country [TS]

00:25:55   and Netherlands short form and Kingdom of the Netherlands. Long form. [TS]

00:26:00   Say look at quickly they did that and you made a great big long video about it. [TS]

00:26:03   Yeah that's much better than my video that I should have just posted a video saying that you should have would have [TS]

00:26:11   gotten a million views. [TS]

00:26:16   Thank you thank you to the person who sent this to I won't name just in case we're not supposed to have it. [TS]

00:26:20   Yes but it is fascinating. [TS]

00:26:22   Yeah [TS]

00:26:22   and just as a tease I would totally love to be able to post this so that everybody listening could look at it because [TS]

00:26:27   it is very interesting but it has to be our little secret so that just for us [TS]

00:26:32   but this thank you to whoever sent it in before we crack on can I can I have a Brady's paper cut this way. [TS]

00:26:39   Yeah yeah what you want to complain about this is this week's paper. [TS]

00:26:45   It's more of a paper grace because I don't want to I don't want to create the impression I get too upset about it [TS]

00:26:49   especially as you are one of the main offenders in this area. [TS]

00:26:53   Oh wow OK what do I do that annoys you here you know the world is not limited to me [TS]

00:26:58   but I do that yeah I don't want to I don't want to come across and I want to come across the wrong way. [TS]

00:27:03   This is this is this week's paper for me I'm getting ready [TS]

00:27:07   and I actually don't know what these things are code which probably adds is probably going to add to the grade A robot [TS]

00:27:13   versus very the caveman element of this I don't like it when people send e-mails with these attachments and that [TS]

00:27:20   when you click on them they put something into your calendar. [TS]

00:27:25   Automatically Oh these are these appointment things that seems that seems inappropriate to me and I don't like it [TS]

00:27:33   but if you and I were it at you know you know fifteen years ago where we had a coffee shop [TS]

00:27:40   or whatever they had fifteen years ago and we agreed that we were going to go [TS]

00:27:44   and see a movie on Tuesday night you wouldn't then reach over and grab the my diary and turn to the page of Tuesday [TS]

00:27:51   and hand write the appointment and that would be my responsibility. That's my My Space And my thing to write in. [TS]

00:27:59   But every. [TS]

00:28:00   No way Sensi when you agree to make them or do something they send you these attachments and it's like you click on [TS]

00:28:06   and then like some booty witchcraft happens [TS]

00:28:08   and stuff being written in your calendar you can write after which graph I was thinking I've never done that [TS]

00:28:17   but as you were talking I realized of course very often when we schedule [TS]

00:28:21   when we are going to record one of these episodes I get it in my calendar [TS]

00:28:26   and then there's a little location on it to say who else is participating in this and I type in your name [TS]

00:28:32   and I don't even think about it I don't even see it [TS]

00:28:34   but I guess the computer just emails you automatically because I realize you have complained about this before [TS]

00:28:40   and I haven't paid much attention sorry it's OK I'm happy I'm happy I'm happy to ignore you [TS]

00:28:46   and you're not the only person who sends them and now I realize you didn't even realize you're sending them. [TS]

00:28:52   But and I do understand the usefulness of them [TS]

00:28:54   and if I was you know you know I see the point of it I just don't like it. [TS]

00:29:00   Comfortable with can I ask you something you can't why do you click it I mean you must you must know that by now that a [TS]

00:29:06   little card icon I don't automatically I don't click them anymore I know of any of them once [TS]

00:29:11   or twice in my life I don't click them but I still get it. [TS]

00:29:15   OK so you're not you're not complaining that it writes in your cat you're complaining that it exists. [TS]

00:29:20   That's what I say another reason I do sometimes click them and you're not guilty of this [TS]

00:29:24   but sometimes you have to click them to get the information that you made about the appointment. [TS]

00:29:28   Well that's just poor emailing skills on the part of the other person so you know if you need the phone number of the [TS]

00:29:33   code for a conference call the where the meetings happening you've got to click on this thing [TS]

00:29:37   and then say as you click on it they've put an entry in my diary. [TS]

00:29:40   That's my space stay out of that as I would usually give footie which took root to witchcraft explicit computer [TS]

00:29:49   instructions to do something on your own. [TS]

00:29:56   How do you feel about them like when you get sent them I have arranged my life. [TS]

00:30:00   If in such a way so that I very rarely have to take a meeting of any kind which I think is a big difference between [TS]

00:30:07   your working life and my working life. [TS]

00:30:10   So this is not any kind of issue for me it is very very rare that I have to schedule some kind of meeting at a [TS]

00:30:17   particular time and that is on purpose. [TS]

00:30:19   So this is not a big issue for me I don't I don't see very many of those cards because I don't schedule very many I can [TS]

00:30:25   vouch for that getting you to commit to make anyway would do many things buddy not true I'm sorry [TS]

00:30:32   and I fully admit that I have a very difficult person to work with sometimes [TS]

00:30:37   and I'm going to choose a word from this root list to describe you. [TS]

00:30:43   I'm going to take offense at that and then there will be another row in that spreadsheet of what to do. [TS]

00:30:48   You are a hunchback. [TS]

00:30:50   I'm going to shut this I'm going to shut this list down because it's too tempting for me just to drop in words from all [TS]

00:30:55   the way through the front. Fair enough you do you do would you want to have no control over your computer screen. [TS]

00:31:00   I have no voodoo witchcraft to force you to shut down the I don't know because you're so much more technically savvy [TS]

00:31:05   than they are I don't know that even just making the Skype call hasn't given you access to things I don't want you. [TS]

00:31:10   Are you going through my files right now where you think it's magic when you leave the camera on [TS]

00:31:14   and I can still see what you're doing. Forget to turn it off. How do you see that. You left your camera on it. [TS]

00:31:24   That's just me not knowing I had intended off anyway. Can you see me now. [TS]

00:31:29   No I can see right now you are you remember to turn on a camera that starts good so I don't have to put my shirt back [TS]

00:31:34   on that I am going to show you. Well you know it's been a busy week for C.D.P. [TS]

00:31:40   Gray when he lets me do the advertisement but here we go this week. [TS]

00:31:44   We'd like to thank the good people at Harry's now you probably know who Harry's are by now they're the people that make [TS]

00:31:50   these razor sets with the replacement blades you can order online [TS]

00:31:54   and they say they're all about giving you a great shaving experience and I'm one hundred percent on board with anyone. [TS]

00:32:00   Who wants to improve any experience I'm having. Now these races are much better than the ones I see on T.V. [TS]

00:32:04   Like in these ads for Gillette that look like these ridiculous props from a Transformers movie. [TS]

00:32:10   The Harry's race is a very very classy. [TS]

00:32:14   They come to this kind of understated elegant packaging and the handles for the races themselves a kind of nice [TS]

00:32:20   and white he well balanced which I think it's important to raise a bit but what do I know. [TS]

00:32:26   Now if you go to Harry's website and checking them out I personally endorse [TS]

00:32:31   and favor the Winston which is the one that has a sort of silvery alum in Him handle very nice matches my bathroom well [TS]

00:32:38   although you're probably not trying to buy a razor to match my bathrobe anyway. [TS]

00:32:42   Go for the Winston if you want my advice. [TS]

00:32:44   Also with the Winston I think you can have your initials engraved into it which is a nice touch. [TS]

00:32:49   But luckily for me it comes by default with an eye for Harry's on the handle [TS]

00:32:53   and my share names Heron so I'm sorted all of this aside the most important thing with Harry's I think is the cost. [TS]

00:32:59   They're all that keeping it affordable and the replacement blades come in at less than two dollars H. [TS]

00:33:05   and They're really good blades made in Germany you know they're good if they're made in Germany. [TS]

00:33:09   Check them out at Harry's dot com It's free just to go look at the website [TS]

00:33:13   and if you said you used to buy the lovely products and decide to go ahead and buy one. [TS]

00:33:17   Enter the code H R I when you check out and you get a five dollar discount. [TS]

00:33:22   Which with products this shape is a pretty big chunk of the process as far as I know they're only delivering in the [TS]

00:33:27   United States and Canada and U.S. Military locations if you're listening from there. [TS]

00:33:33   But hopefully that will be changing soon because I might be hitting Cymru fields here in the U.K. [TS]

00:33:37   The website again Harris dot com and the code H R I. [TS]

00:33:41   So you get that discount and the people Harry's know you came from here at our pod cast [TS]

00:33:47   and by the way for people who are based on previous ads have already bought from Harry's [TS]

00:33:51   and sent me photos of their product. Thank you very much. [TS]

00:33:55   Who would've ever thought I'd end up doing a job where people send me photos from their bathrooms. [TS]

00:34:02   Let's talk about your video because it was really interesting. [TS]

00:34:05   It was excellent as always it's been hugely successful deservedly so congratulations. [TS]

00:34:10   Thanks [TS]

00:34:11   but I was hoping maybe we talk some more about it I mean it's fifty minutes long though I mean you've you covered most [TS]

00:34:18   of the bases I'd imagine but there are probably a few things I'm sure I'll have a few questions about [TS]

00:34:22   and I'd like to point out a few mistakes you made and [TS]

00:34:29   and I'm sure there are lots of things you'd like to say about it but for those who haven't seen it. [TS]

00:34:32   What was this really about. [TS]

00:34:33   This is a topic that is near and dear to my heart and has been on my mind for I was I was trying to place [TS]

00:34:42   when this started and I can actually put it pretty consistently at about a decade ago when I was in college [TS]

00:34:47   and came across a few things and the topic of the video is basically a bounce. [TS]

00:34:53   To what extent is automation and computer technology going to replace the need for human labor [TS]

00:35:04   and the economy as that is the broadest way to put it [TS]

00:35:07   or in a more simple way you can say robots are they going to take your jobs. [TS]

00:35:12   That's that's kind of the more direct version of what the video is about. [TS]

00:35:19   You should sort of what you call I mean you can have an excellent auto humans need not apply. [TS]

00:35:23   But I like the robots taught him to throw but they took our jobs. [TS]

00:35:27   He should've Kota if you're going to be really click Baity should've put you should have called it eight ways that [TS]

00:35:32   robots will take your jobs. Yes yes I had a really Buzz Feed it up there. You missed a trick there. [TS]

00:35:38   It could have been a list video imagine how many more of you that would have gotten the sad thing is it almost [TS]

00:35:43   certainly would have gotten more definite words it would have stood him pretty well I say I think of my area a million [TS]

00:35:48   already I have to say I was pleasantly surprised I had no expectations for this one so I'm pretty happy about it. [TS]

00:35:55   So I mean it's a long video with lots of stuff in a mine. [TS]

00:36:00   Do we even start talking about what I wrote I don't completely agree. That's going to be my position. [TS]

00:36:06   OK Well let me let let's start with a start with my my position is basically that this is a really big deal coming down [TS]

00:36:15   the road how much automation is going to be in place in the labor market [TS]

00:36:20   and how much humans are going to be finding it very difficult to compete with machines. [TS]

00:36:26   That's that's my my basic thesis I think the most interesting place maybe to start this discussion is talking about the [TS]

00:36:37   self driving cars is that to me that is that is the one thing where I look at this and I really think. [TS]

00:36:45   A lot of things kind of hinge on the self driving cars [TS]

00:36:49   and it really is a place where people are going to see this in their daily life in a way that lots of other kinds of [TS]

00:36:56   automation is hidden from view. [TS]

00:36:58   So I spent tons of time researching and looking up different kinds of automation and contacting companies [TS]

00:37:04   and there is an enormous amount of stuff that is going on. [TS]

00:37:08   But it is all hidden from view in warehouses it's in labs [TS]

00:37:13   and I've gotten some interesting anonymous e-mails from people who work in automating systems talking about what [TS]

00:37:19   they're up to. It's all behind the scenes. [TS]

00:37:22   But the self driving car which I really think people should call an auto I'm going to try to make that a thing. [TS]

00:37:27   Speaking of Oxford English Dictionary are you listening I would very much like a lot of it to be your new word to mean [TS]

00:37:33   a self driving car. [TS]

00:37:34   Was that your point was if you borrowed that from someone else you say using it calling out [TS]

00:37:38   and calling it just an order. [TS]

00:37:40   As far as I know I'm I'm going to call myself coining this as we have discussed many times on the podcast. [TS]

00:37:47   It would not surprise me in the least if somebody else independently has has come up with this coinage [TS]

00:37:53   but I really I really think that you need a different word to describe self driving cars and I spent. [TS]

00:38:00   Spent a while thinking about it and in my original version of the script I had it as automobiles. [TS]

00:38:05   I thought oh we should go back to the older term automobiles [TS]

00:38:08   but I thought oh I don't like that because it's it just didn't it just didn't feel right [TS]

00:38:14   and so I thought actually autos make alot more sense [TS]

00:38:17   and it leaned into this whole notion of they are they are automatic transport machines they are fundamentally different [TS]

00:38:24   from from cars so I don't know I don't know about that there are some it does feel right. [TS]

00:38:29   I think you've chosen a good word but I see problems with it. [TS]

00:38:32   First you know people you refer to their cars autos if they've got an automatic or a manual [TS]

00:38:37   but I have never heard anyone use that phrase but I like it you know for example like if you buy you know [TS]

00:38:44   when you buy a new car I say had people say oh did you get whatever menu and I am going to order it with me [TS]

00:38:52   and say I've only heard Americans refer to them as as automatics I became me about be curious to hear from listeners [TS]

00:38:58   and I mean you look in the last of our advertisement so often we don't. [TS]

00:39:01   Maybe it's just writing [TS]

00:39:02   but in classified advertisement set off in the called auto pilot has to say as you left I was going to [TS]

00:39:06   but that's you know you're trying to save a dollar a letter on that yeah but then [TS]

00:39:10   but then that then becomes the word doesn't but that's how words sometimes abbreviations. Yes that's true that's true. [TS]

00:39:17   Anyway anyway that we're getting off. No you're going off track. It's a good name for it but I'm not. [TS]

00:39:24   I see problems with it as a code anyway. [TS]

00:39:26   Just because just because that's the most obvious place that we see this transition happening was that the most [TS]

00:39:32   important. So I would what I think is important about autos coming into daily life. [TS]

00:39:44   So as we know right now self driving car it it works is is not a technical problem. [TS]

00:39:53   We're not imagining a future world where there will be self driving cars that work. We already have them. [TS]

00:40:00   Now it's very interesting I've read a lot of first hand accounts of people who have driven in them [TS]

00:40:05   and in particular leave the Google cars which have more or less free rein up and down the California coast [TS]

00:40:11   and throughout San Francisco and they totally work. [TS]

00:40:15   And the safety record now is better than human drivers over the equivalent distance. [TS]

00:40:20   It's really quite It's really quite impressive. [TS]

00:40:22   So my perspective on this is that the rollout of autos now is really much more of a legislative barrier it is no longer [TS]

00:40:32   a technical barrier. [TS]

00:40:34   And interestingly there are a few states that already have legislation in place too I think next year make it legal for [TS]

00:40:43   there to be self driving cars on the road. Florida is one of those states. It was Florida. [TS]

00:40:49   I may have this wrong out of my head but I think the other one was Nevada. [TS]

00:40:52   So this is this is definitely this is definitely coming. And the reason why I think it's important is. [TS]

00:41:01   It's an undeniable place where human labor will just not be as necessary. [TS]

00:41:09   So once you have a fleet of autos in a city you don't need taxi drivers and there's lots of taxi drivers [TS]

00:41:18   and they are going to be pushed out of this particular field of work. [TS]

00:41:22   Yeah [TS]

00:41:23   and the other reason why I like to use autos because it's as a broader term is think about all of the kinds of machines [TS]

00:41:30   in the world the need to move around and have human drivers. [TS]

00:41:34   So one of the other examples are tractors and ploughs in farm equipment [TS]

00:41:39   and some very you know there are some very interesting videos I've seen again of automated farming equipment just [TS]

00:41:45   driving around harvesting corn. There happens to be a person in there but he is not driving. [TS]

00:41:51   Yeah [TS]

00:41:51   and then the other one that was very very interesting is Caterpillar which is the mining manufacturing company they [TS]

00:41:58   and they are all. [TS]

00:42:00   All in on automated machines they have this whole system and you can go and watch their promo videos [TS]

00:42:06   and they already have these enormous bulldozers and trucks [TS]

00:42:09   and mining equipment none of which requires the humans to be in it [TS]

00:42:15   and the whole system requires the barest of oversight from humans. [TS]

00:42:20   You know that there are all of these different areas [TS]

00:42:23   and to me the thing that's important about this is like this is the first wave where it's very concrete. [TS]

00:42:31   People can understand it. [TS]

00:42:33   And from my perspective the question that really needs answering is what are you going to do [TS]

00:42:41   when the three million people who work in the transportation industry suddenly find themselves unemployed possibly over [TS]

00:42:50   the space of five years. [TS]

00:42:53   You know when when cars come out I don't know how fast will actually be [TS]

00:42:56   but I bet it will be pretty fast because it will be just so much cheaper they'll be a big incentive to use autos. [TS]

00:43:03   And I feel like that that is a moment where we as a society have to come to a question about what are you going to do [TS]

00:43:10   with all of these people who are suddenly unemployed and this is not unprecedented. [TS]

00:43:16   You know new technologies have come along before that have that have done this. [TS]

00:43:22   You talk yourself about the transition from horses to the original autos the automobile. [TS]

00:43:28   And you know we've seen that transition. [TS]

00:43:31   We saw you know we've seen computers come along [TS]

00:43:34   and really heavily automate things that used to be done in the ledges and by means of calculating people [TS]

00:43:41   and bookkeepers you know we've seen wave after wave of this and it is up a level and [TS]

00:43:47   and is traumatic for millions of people but the world keeps spinning and and by and large people keep ating [TS]

00:43:57   and adapting and. [TS]

00:44:00   But I know I mean you are arguing maybe descale is is greater than before [TS]

00:44:06   but I don't know maybe they say that every time. Well we're never going to see change like this again. [TS]

00:44:10   Did the introduction of the computer or the introduction of you know the motor car. [TS]

00:44:15   Well this is this is the biggest change they could have a baby [TS]

00:44:18   and then you look back twenty years later thirty years later and it's like yeah that was a big change [TS]

00:44:24   and things changed and we're all still here and I could just see that happening again with the self driving cars. [TS]

00:44:31   Yeah I think actually the best the best comparison to make along these lines is actually the thing that I opened my [TS]

00:44:36   video with very on purpose is talking about the transition from agricultural work into non agricultural work [TS]

00:44:44   and so I went back. [TS]

00:44:46   Very helpful people at the Labor Statistics help me out with some of this stuff [TS]

00:44:50   but if you go back to the eighteen hundreds I think it was about eighty percent of the population maybe was ninety [TS]

00:44:57   percent of the population was directly involved in food production that that the number of people who did anything [TS]

00:45:03   other than work on a farm or directly service farms was just a tiny portion of the population [TS]

00:45:09   and I think you could totally make the same claim go back at that point in time and. [TS]

00:45:16   And tell people about OK what we're going to have improvements in farming technology which are going to allow fewer [TS]

00:45:21   and fewer people to produce more and more food and people could say well you know what is everybody going to do. [TS]

00:45:27   And obviously we got through that transition just fine because we're here now. [TS]

00:45:30   Yep so I totally ignore all of that this has been a kind of rallying cry very many times throughout history. [TS]

00:45:40   And there is even a name for it the official name is the Luddite fallacy which is the position that are going to get [TS]

00:45:49   this backwards [TS]

00:45:50   but I think if you if you believe in the Luddite fallacy you believe that technology reduces the number of jobs. [TS]

00:45:58   I think that's the right crowd around. Very internet if it's the wrong way around. [TS]

00:46:01   I know what you meant but there's a name for this term [TS]

00:46:05   and one of the reasons why I think that is fundamentally different this time is because I look at it this way. [TS]

00:46:13   You say all right we have we have all these different categories of work that humans can do [TS]

00:46:19   and humans can sell their straight up physical labor you can have a guy dig a ditch just muscle power. [TS]

00:46:26   Yeah just straight up muscle power and you can it you can be barely cognitively functioning [TS]

00:46:32   and you can still dig a ditch [TS]

00:46:34   and then you move up that you keep moving up into things like white collar workers as you know OK well now this is a [TS]

00:46:40   thinking person's work and as a general statement the economy has has transitioned from in the first world anyway. [TS]

00:46:49   Physical labor jobs into more intellectual labor jobs jobs that require some kind of thinking [TS]

00:46:56   and actually put driving a car in the category of jobs that require some kind of thinking. [TS]

00:47:01   We don't think of it that way but you need to have a mentally alert person to drive a car or an ambulance. [TS]

00:47:07   Yes it is like it's like the lowest kind of thinking job perhaps because I know I've I've driven quite a lot across the [TS]

00:47:13   country [TS]

00:47:14   and you listen to audiobooks you know your mind you don't have to focus like you're a doctor for example I don't want [TS]

00:47:19   the doctor listening to audiobooks while he's doing it so yeah like oh that was good. [TS]

00:47:24   If you're a doctor listening to this podcast please stop listening to the podcast if you are performing surgery at the. [TS]

00:47:29   Did not recommend that. Yeah. [TS]

00:47:32   Anyway with truck drivers you know they're going to be smart and know brilliance and laws [TS]

00:47:36   and it's some kind of some kind of level of intellectual labor [TS]

00:47:40   and so my perspective on this is that the Basically our machines for almost all of human history were just shockingly [TS]

00:47:50   dumb they had no cognitive abilities whatsoever and that we are we are just getting to the point now where. [TS]

00:48:00   The machines are able to compete on a cognitive level with some humans and that's [TS]

00:48:07   and that's where you talk about a self driving car in very many ways it is a brain competition with humans which makes [TS]

00:48:13   it fundamentally different from all kinds of machines that came before [TS]

00:48:17   when you build a better plowed into that plow is not any smarter than the plow that was made of sticks. [TS]

00:48:23   If it's made of metal it's just physically stronger maybe yeah it's just physically stronger it's bigger. [TS]

00:48:29   I had this I had this whole bizarre section that I cut I think quite rightly which is hung on the progress of flower [TS]

00:48:35   Mills over time and how like the production is like [TS]

00:48:38   and then I look at this later like what am I writing this for this whole thing sounds like a hell of a moment ago. [TS]

00:48:45   But there is a little a little clip of a flour mill that I still left in there anyway. [TS]

00:48:50   But if I get like a bigger better flour mill is not fundamentally different from a primitive flour mill. [TS]

00:48:56   Yeah and that's why I like people who say like oh I'm just engaging the Luddite fallacy when I talk about this stuff. [TS]

00:49:02   This to me is the real difference is like OK well humans have two kinds of labor to sell physical labor which we've [TS]

00:49:09   been basically getting rid of [TS]

00:49:10   and we crossed that threshold I guess at the time of the lever almost in ways that that machine started being able to [TS]

00:49:17   outdo humans physically and then when all the cars [TS]

00:49:20   and things came along so that threshold thing crossed you're saying there's another threshold now. [TS]

00:49:25   Nefesh oh I'm saying it's the intellectual threshold and. [TS]

00:49:30   And that to me is is the real difference and part part of the reason why I am I am concerned is [TS]

00:49:39   and I think this is this is a bit of a it is a bit of an uncomfortable conversation to have sometimes [TS]

00:49:45   but I look at it another example of of a machine that is competing cognitively with humans on a low level are the self [TS]

00:49:53   checkout machines that you see everywhere now in supermarkets and yours. I mean this is this is one. [TS]

00:50:00   Things that really made me start thinking I need to make this video is i saw a bunch of stores around me transition to [TS]

00:50:06   self checkout machines. [TS]

00:50:07   Man I hate things that they can be sure annoying like Don't get me wrong there are there are there are troubles [TS]

00:50:13   and problems with them but it doesn't matter that yeah they're more economically efficient [TS]

00:50:17   and I did a tally of some of the places that I visit and in and one of the supermarkets in London alone. [TS]

00:50:26   I counted it up [TS]

00:50:26   and I was like oh OK I just wrote these machines replaced about forty checkout registers in this one huge supermarket [TS]

00:50:34   in London that I go to [TS]

00:50:35   and looking at all of the other places I'm like OK I know that there used to be five people at the desk over there [TS]

00:50:41   and now there's one you know not not every place is doing this but enough places are doing it [TS]

00:50:47   and then I think OK well that's the self checkout machines are here. [TS]

00:50:50   We're going to have autos doing the same kind of thing start pushing people out of the labor market with taxis [TS]

00:50:56   and all the rest of that. The uncomfortable thing to me is. [TS]

00:51:03   What is it that we're going to have these people do that a machine won't be able to do better. [TS]

00:51:12   Because if you take someone whose job is retail [TS]

00:51:17   or you take someone whose job is long haul trucking What are you really going to do with millions of people who used to [TS]

00:51:26   do those jobs. [TS]

00:51:28   And how are you going to transition them to something else when all of this kind of work can be automated [TS]

00:51:37   when the machines keep getting better and better and can compete with humans on different levels. [TS]

00:51:43   And I I sometimes get mad because I get into arguments with people who keep saying things like oh you know they'll [TS]

00:51:50   these people they'll go get educated and go to college they'll learn how to become app developers for the App Store [TS]

00:51:56   or they'll learn how to make web pages are you know they'll learn how to do. [TS]

00:52:00   All of these things and I and I always feel like that's a nice story to tell yourself [TS]

00:52:05   and maybe some of those people will do that but [TS]

00:52:07   when you start talking about numbers in the millions of people you're not going to transition a million guys who were [TS]

00:52:14   truck drivers into white collar work somewhere in an office I think we have to face the fact that that is that is not [TS]

00:52:23   practical and I mean yeah you know you make the case brilliantly if both now and in your video and quite possibly [TS]

00:52:32   but I may very well be wrong I always want to be clear about this. I'm very open to the notion of being wrong. [TS]

00:52:37   Is it possible this is also a failure of your imagination. [TS]

00:52:42   I mean two hundred years ago if you'd gone to those people plowing the fields [TS]

00:52:47   and said don't worry because in two hundred years will be working in call centers and this [TS]

00:52:53   and that that was a call center. [TS]

00:52:56   All this going to be this invention called the telephone and then this and then that and then this [TS]

00:52:59   and their heads would explode you know just like that person in the field two hundred years ago [TS]

00:53:04   and in two hundred years you look at all the jobs people are doing and go Well I would never even thought of that. [TS]

00:53:10   Yes And of course a machine can't do that yet because you know I hadn't thought of it. [TS]

00:53:13   Yeah I mean this is maybe maybe I'm clinging on to a wispy thread of hope and there isn't going to be an invention [TS]

00:53:21   or things that would do this but. It's always happened before. [TS]

00:53:25   Yes it has always happened before and it's funny because when [TS]

00:53:28   when I first transition from being a teacher in to being a You Tube explainer person as I do now I guess I remember I [TS]

00:53:36   was very fascinated with the new economy [TS]

00:53:40   and all these these kinds of jobs that have been coming up I think like wow I'm I'm making a full time living now on [TS]

00:53:47   You Tube and at the time that wasn't even five years old that the whole idea that there were ads on You Tube [TS]

00:53:53   and You Tube would share the revenue with people who make the videos that didn't even exist for very long at the time [TS]

00:53:59   that I started. [TS]

00:54:00   It's it was it was quite amazing to me that this is this new kind of work that could happen [TS]

00:54:05   and I started looking around at all different kinds of look at all these new jobs isn't this interesting there are [TS]

00:54:09   people who make apps for the i Phone and all the kind of stuff. [TS]

00:54:12   One of the things that I thought one day was ha I wonder how many people make a living on You Tube full time [TS]

00:54:20   and how many people are like me around the world [TS]

00:54:23   and if you're on the inside of You Tube you can do some ballpark numbers of heart that are harder to do on the outside [TS]

00:54:29   but you know you can you can gather data about the views on channels and there's a whole bunch of stuff you can do. [TS]

00:54:36   The bottom line is my back of beyond the loop calculation was not talking about companies like Disney who happened to [TS]

00:54:43   be on You Tube and not talking about channels like vivo that happened to be on You Tube [TS]

00:54:48   but people whose job is like mine making You Tube videos how many people like that can there be around the world. [TS]

00:54:55   My ballpark was maybe somewhere around two thousand people. And so that that was kind of my guess about that. [TS]

00:55:06   I feel really exclusive now. Yeah that's very very cool. [TS]

00:55:10   The other thing that that actually this is something that I talk about in a future podcast [TS]

00:55:14   but there's been a bunch of interesting articles making their way around the Internet right now about how many people [TS]

00:55:20   make a full time living developing applications for the i Phone an i O. S. On Apple. [TS]

00:55:25   Yes like the App Store is this huge market [TS]

00:55:27   and they always have these comical numbers about you know there's twenty zillion apps in the App Store [TS]

00:55:33   and then the question is OK but how many people make a full time living at that they get not companies but individuals. [TS]

00:55:40   And I haven't seen anybody try to ballpark it. I'd be really curious if somebody could. [TS]

00:55:46   But the clear thing from these articles is that the number of independent developers making a living on the App Store [TS]

00:55:52   is a tiny number of people it is a very small number of people. So when I was thinking about realizing how. [TS]

00:56:00   A few people did You Tube I had this growing suspicion that while there are many new kinds of jobs I don't think that [TS]

00:56:07   those new kinds of jobs employ a significant amount of people. [TS]

00:56:13   And again through some people at the Bureau of Labor Statistics this information was confirmed to me that basically [TS]

00:56:20   jobs that are new within the last hundred years are very small portions of the workforce [TS]

00:56:26   and if you look at what people do they are jobs that have been around for a long time in one form or another. [TS]

00:56:34   And so that's why I worry that this this refrain of new jobs will come and save us. [TS]

00:56:41   Doesn't doesn't strike me as being borne out by the data it's actually there are very few jobs over time [TS]

00:56:48   and a lot of the old jobs that make up about half the labor force seem to be easy targets for automation like within [TS]

00:56:55   our grasp right now for stuff that works in the labs. So that's kind of my thoughts on the new the new jobs thing. [TS]

00:57:02   Something. [TS]

00:57:03   Apologies if this was covered in the video but I do know something I took away from the video [TS]

00:57:07   and it might be a really naive question because I know you do your bit more if I was sort of economics [TS]

00:57:13   and things like this than I But another thing that I thought might save our bacon was this you know I want things that [TS]

00:57:20   save our bacon simply go right ahead. [TS]

00:57:25   And I don't and I'm sure there's somebody you know normal word for this and you'll laugh at me for even saying it [TS]

00:57:30   but I am not stupid and I realize that companies will maximize their profits and automate and automate [TS]

00:57:37   and cut down their labor force as much as they can to squeeze every last penny out of out of their business. [TS]

00:57:45   But does there come a point where they make so many people unemployed [TS]

00:57:48   and society could fall into such ruin that they actually can no longer start hurting their customer base [TS]

00:57:56   and therefore they start to employ. People just to sustain themselves. [TS]

00:58:02   For example if McDonald's could completely automate the cooking process completely and you just went to an A.T.M. [TS]

00:58:08   To get a cheeseburger. [TS]

00:58:10   If eventually there was just no one working anymore [TS]

00:58:14   and no one had money there'd be no one left to buy the cheeseburgers. [TS]

00:58:17   Is that kind of a self correcting element to the economy as a whole where business went completely. [TS]

00:58:25   Suresh society into the ground because they need society to sustain their business. [TS]

00:58:30   OK So you've actually you've actually jump to the thing that I was going to talk about at the end [TS]

00:58:34   but I think what let's do it now. [TS]

00:58:36   So this this comes right to the right to the point where I am on board with you that that was one of the reasons why I [TS]

00:58:44   made this video is I wanted to contribute to a general conversation of talking about what are we going to do with [TS]

00:58:53   masses of unemployed people [TS]

00:58:55   and under the current system you are you are kind of right that you can't have a system where. [TS]

00:59:03   Almost nobody is employed but there are still massive companies. [TS]

00:59:07   It gets very strange economically very quickly that there are ways under which it can work [TS]

00:59:12   but yes that there are there are certainly problems with very high unemployment rates. [TS]

00:59:18   But at some point I don't know what the time frame is going to be we will be in a world where technology is just so [TS]

00:59:27   advanced that basically all of human labor is almost irrelevant that that would be my prediction. [TS]

00:59:34   That might be a hundred year time frame a two hundred year time frame [TS]

00:59:38   when we're talking about literally no humans need to work to do anything. [TS]

00:59:42   So for those who haven't seen Gray's videos Well I mean he talked about you know newspaper articles being written [TS]

00:59:47   automatically in the end that things that we don't even things we think are ridiculous to be done automatically [TS]

00:59:52   actually happening automatically already writing music doing doing legal work there's all kinds of terrifying stuff. [TS]

01:00:00   That's being done that way. [TS]

01:00:01   So OK But here's the thing if we could magically jump to that point I feel like well that's not really a problem. [TS]

01:00:08   If all human life is not required because then you're in what is called a post scarcity economy where our current [TS]

01:00:16   economy is set up as a way to manage limited resources we have. [TS]

01:00:22   We exchange money for goods and services because you have a limited amount of time [TS]

01:00:27   and there's a limited amount of production that can happen this is the story of all of human history. [TS]

01:00:31   But if you transition to a place where robots can you know they can grow your food [TS]

01:00:35   and they can run the solar plants to generate the electricity to run the robots you know well then suddenly Why would [TS]

01:00:41   people pay for anything. If you can have automation just one hundred percent of the way. [TS]

01:00:46   So that's that's like a nice fantasy land but the gist of the poll and drink cocktails. [TS]

01:00:52   Yes It's like the Wally World right the robots are taking charge of everything and we get nice [TS]

01:00:57   and fat in our luxury spaceship but I'd love to be in that role by the way maybe not have had a treadmill [TS]

01:01:03   but hopefully hopefully they'll be drugs to make me skinny. [TS]

01:01:06   But anyway that's what I want actually if you're on a treadmill if you want to do it. [TS]

01:01:11   But but but my concern [TS]

01:01:13   and I have to say I am so I am that to be clear here I am very long term optimistic on humankind. [TS]

01:01:22   I am very short term worried for exactly the kinds of problems that you bring up which is. [TS]

01:01:29   What happens as the unemployment rate goes up because there's there are all of these incentives for companies to [TS]

01:01:39   automate work and to increase the unemployment rate. And any company that doesn't go along with this. [TS]

01:01:46   It's it's like a tragedy of the commons situation or it's the prisoner's dilemma [TS]

01:01:51   but they've been the one company that doesn't go along with it just pushes itself out of business faster because of the [TS]

01:01:57   impeding with cheaper companies. You can't hold back this tide. [TS]

01:02:03   And so I don't think that there is a self correcting factor [TS]

01:02:07   and I think we're in an interesting position where OK we're standing in today's society [TS]

01:02:12   and you can look at maybe a quasi utopian future but between us and there is a pit of doom. Yeah. [TS]

01:02:20   Of dangerous situations because you cannot have if you imagine particularly American society exactly as it is now [TS]

01:02:29   but you turn the unemployment dial up to fifty percent. [TS]

01:02:33   Yeah that's riots in the streets level of unemployment right now. That is people can't get food this is a huge problem. [TS]

01:02:41   Levels of unemployment. [TS]

01:02:43   And so this is this is my concern about what are we going to do in the transition phase [TS]

01:02:48   and I'm going to be very very conservatively say the transition phase is like the most like a twenty year phase that we [TS]

01:02:56   need to be worried about. [TS]

01:02:57   I actually my gut feeling is this is more of like a ten year timeframe that we need to be worried about this stuff. [TS]

01:03:04   But there is there is definitely a human tendency to overestimate change in the short run [TS]

01:03:09   and then to underestimate change in the long run. So I may be a little bit. [TS]

01:03:14   That number those numbers may be shorter than they really are [TS]

01:03:16   but that's kind of what I mean by I'm short term worried which is a twenty year timeframe. [TS]

01:03:21   But long term very optimistic I think all of this stuff is good [TS]

01:03:24   but there's a lot there's a lot of pubs that start you were going to ask me something. [TS]

01:03:31   I can hear you breathe and you're like my wife you can I'm watching like on the Skype right now. [TS]

01:03:37   I'm covering the cameras to get the feel of the whole time you're not my wife they are like she can just tell from the [TS]

01:03:45   way like I Google my name. [TS]

01:03:46   Exactly what about just getting into that this would be a very popular thing to suggest [TS]

01:03:52   but I'm sure some think that you know is often talked about could there be could legislation or regulation. [TS]

01:04:00   They have a case here. [TS]

01:04:01   Is there a reason that governments couldn't come to our rescue [TS]

01:04:04   and ban a certain level of automation just for the greater good. [TS]

01:04:09   Yes So this this is the reverse problem of the company situation. [TS]

01:04:13   And here here's my view on technology I think technology is almost a technological progress I should say is it's almost [TS]

01:04:25   like like a nuclear reaction in that one once it gets started it is going to keep spiraling [TS]

01:04:35   and there is nothing that you can do to kind of hold this back as long as you have groups of people anywhere in the [TS]

01:04:42   world this is the kind of reaction that is going to occur and it takes place faster [TS]

01:04:47   and the situation with trying to to ban or limit technology [TS]

01:04:52   or what I mentioned in the video is talking about unions try to do the same thing to hold back the progress. [TS]

01:04:59   Society in some ways it's like a terrible way for anything you need. [TS]

01:05:03   I don't mean that you can because I've always been told I hate these weekends [TS]

01:05:06   and this forty hour work week is just terrible. [TS]

01:05:08   But I meant to say but you know what I mean trying to limit the amount of jobs being lost [TS]

01:05:14   and even to say you know in America you convinced the country to to legally prohibit something like the thing that I [TS]

01:05:24   showed which is that the Baxter robot which is a very human like robot that can do a lot of very simple task in which [TS]

01:05:31   they were just banning that kind of stuff. Yeah. [TS]

01:05:33   Well [TS]

01:05:34   and in the United States through its tremendous political pressure convinces its NATO allies to all join on board [TS]

01:05:40   and then it starts leaning on you know the world organization the more people that you get to sign on to technology ban [TS]

01:05:47   the more valuable the technology is to the countries that don't sign on. [TS]

01:05:52   Yeah like that that's all you have done is make it more valuable for the people who don't want to participate in this [TS]

01:05:59   ban. And then we're going to quarantine ourselves situation. [TS]

01:06:04   Well now this is it is almost like you're talking about a totalitarian society is necessary to halt progress within its [TS]

01:06:14   borders. [TS]

01:06:15   Yeah you just you cannot possibly do that especially if people are traveling you know you are leaving the country [TS]

01:06:21   and you come back you know then it's almost like a North Korea situation where you leave [TS]

01:06:26   and you won't believe all the robots [TS]

01:06:28   and the technology outside of this country borders like what you know I got I got to get a message back to my family to [TS]

01:06:33   you know to make make a run for Mexico right. [TS]

01:06:36   If the United States is completed I mean you know you make a good you make a joke about that about like a North Korean [TS]

01:06:41   person being amazed by the technology outside their borders and at the moment that is a joke [TS]

01:06:46   but the joke would turn the other way really quickly if in twenty years like you say they go from outside North Korea [TS]

01:06:52   and all they see is riots in the Straits unemployed people in these wonderful technology. Yeah. [TS]

01:06:57   So could the shoe could be on the other foot very quickly. [TS]

01:07:00   Yes Yes And that is that is my concern and I [TS]

01:07:04   and I I I really do think that the unemployment situation from automation is. [TS]

01:07:15   I'm going to lay it out that I think this is one of the biggest challenges that humanity is going to face. [TS]

01:07:21   That's what I think this is I think this is a big big deal [TS]

01:07:26   and we are we often talk about how I don't really follow the news for example. [TS]

01:07:31   It's because part of it is I think that the things that are talked about daily in the news like don't are not [TS]

01:07:36   necessarily big scale things to worry about and from. So it's like this is the thing to be discussing. [TS]

01:07:43   Now this you know this is this is a really big societal changing kind of thing that needs to be is this a bigger issue [TS]

01:07:50   than like oil or like water supply and things like that. [TS]

01:07:54   I would say so because those are those are issues of resource management. [TS]

01:08:00   Which are all caught up in the nature of what is a level of technology available now. [TS]

01:08:06   Those are those are definitely issues I'm not denying that they are [TS]

01:08:09   but they are they are like a byproduct of the central issue which is technology [TS]

01:08:14   and I've always held the opinion that technology is really the driving force behind history [TS]

01:08:19   and I think we're really at one of these moments now where we just we need to be. [TS]

01:08:25   I was saying on Twitter that people were taking my video as being very pessimistic [TS]

01:08:30   and I didn't really mean it that way I was aiming for it to be quite neutral like to inform people about this issue. [TS]

01:08:37   But I was trying very consciously to not have it be a Isn't this the most terrible thing in the world it was more like [TS]

01:08:44   oh we need to talk about this kind of thing. [TS]

01:08:46   And my my position really is that if we play our cards right this could be humanity's greatest moment. [TS]

01:08:54   But my concern is that well we'll stuff it all up [TS]

01:08:57   and end up with it like a riot in the streets situation so I want to see what just playing our cards right look like. [TS]

01:09:05   Yeah that's a that's a difficult question isn't it. [TS]

01:09:10   So here's here's here's the way I want to walk into this in the video I made a very conscious choice to not talk about [TS]

01:09:18   potential solutions. At the end of that video you know I depend on you for solutions. [TS]

01:09:23   That's what that's what it takes you all the time and if I don't put it off where should I go. [TS]

01:09:27   I Phone cover should I buy. If you haven't got the answer. [TS]

01:09:31   Well I mean this is this is a case where I'm going to I'm going to start before before I get to the end I might as well [TS]

01:09:36   say right now that I don't have answers to this [TS]

01:09:38   but here's the way I want to log into this is I've been kind of talking about this topic with people in my life [TS]

01:09:46   and co-workers [TS]

01:09:48   and just people of interest for a decade because this is just this is really been a great interest of mine [TS]

01:09:58   and I've noticed it work. [TS]

01:10:00   During a pattern in all of these conversations which is that getting people even on the on board the know this time is [TS]

01:10:10   really different technological change is different from the agricultural revolution. [TS]

01:10:15   Train is hard enough as it is [TS]

01:10:18   and I was always really aware that if it if it then if the conversation even if I got them on board part one if we [TS]

01:10:26   immediately dove into part two of the conversation which is what do we do. [TS]

01:10:30   Suddenly what we're actually having is a conversation about contemporary politics. Yeah. [TS]

01:10:36   Oh well now I'm talking about what is this person's feelings about political situations right now [TS]

01:10:43   and then I often saw people undo changing their mind about technological problems because it disagreed with their [TS]

01:10:52   politics as well as relates to the current situation right now. [TS]

01:10:57   And so that's why I did not want to connect those two parts because I've seen people unconvinced themselves often [TS]

01:11:03   enough [TS]

01:11:05   when what you know so much out of denial like I say I suddenly they're confronted with something else they don't like [TS]

01:11:09   and that is the head in the sand. Yeah well you know every everybody does this which is you. [TS]

01:11:17   It is very much human nature when you're kind of forced to draw a conclusion that you don't like to then go back [TS]

01:11:23   and try to change the premises that that brought you to this location [TS]

01:11:27   and in my experience the way it has worked much better [TS]

01:11:31   when talking to people is get them on board the automation train and just kind of leave it [TS]

01:11:38   and then it sinks in with people [TS]

01:11:41   and then you can have a much better conversation about well what are we going to try to do for this sort of thing [TS]

01:11:47   and be a pain but what are we going to do. [TS]

01:11:51   Well I guess I think that maybe you haven't thought about it because you haven't had enough conversations out of those [TS]

01:11:56   ten years long enough. I have definitely thought about it but. [TS]

01:12:00   Here here is the change that I think needs to happen in people's minds is we need to stigmatize particular feelings [TS]

01:12:15   about the unemployed. [TS]

01:12:18   And that's that's a big issue because right now most people I talk to even [TS]

01:12:25   when we were recording this it's the middle of a recession which let me circle back to later. [TS]

01:12:31   People have very negative feelings towards the unemployed that oh you know why why aren't they working. [TS]

01:12:38   Why don't they find a job why don't they try harder to find a job. [TS]

01:12:42   And those feelings can always be true for an individual. [TS]

01:12:48   Everybody has like a cousin Earl who's just you know never never tries very hard anything is a total bomb [TS]

01:12:55   and isn't looking for work and is just like a total mooch on society. Everybody knows somebody like that. [TS]

01:13:01   Your cousin doesn't listen I don't think you listen. But there are always individuals like that. [TS]

01:13:08   I don't deny that that's the case. [TS]

01:13:09   Yeah but it's a very different case when you start looking structurally at the whole economy and I think we are we are. [TS]

01:13:17   The reason why in part the reason why I made this video now is I think we really are in the beginning phases of this [TS]

01:13:22   thing called structural unemployment where people just will not be able to find a job. [TS]

01:13:28   It doesn't matter how good the economy goes. [TS]

01:13:31   And under those circumstances I think we have to start viewing people not as unemployed with the implication that oh if [TS]

01:13:40   they only tried harder they could find jobs that don't exist. [TS]

01:13:44   Given their set of skills [TS]

01:13:47   and instead we have to look at them as almost as unemployable that there is there is nothing that this person can do to [TS]

01:13:57   support themselves given their. [TS]

01:14:00   Our ability [TS]

01:14:00   and given the current level of technology that they cannot outcompete a machine in the things that they're able to do [TS]

01:14:07   that are economically productive. [TS]

01:14:09   And so OK so like we're here we are we're walking towards this right [TS]

01:14:13   and then at this stage if you come along to this point and agree that certain kinds of people are unemployable. [TS]

01:14:20   The question we have to ask ourselves is well are we going to help those people or are we going to say tough luck. [TS]

01:14:31   You get to starve to death on the streets because you are not economically viable. [TS]

01:14:35   And the way I have phrased that you might feel where which we have with that is I mean you know if society is anything [TS]

01:14:42   society is about setting the minimum standards below which we will not let people fall. [TS]

01:14:49   If people are unemployable do we help them or do we leave them on their own and my position is that we help them. [TS]

01:14:56   But that that's what society is. You don't just you don't just abandon people because they're not economically viable. [TS]

01:15:05   They're still people. [TS]

01:15:07   So that like this is where we are this is where we walk into but then this not are not totally how capitalism works. [TS]

01:15:13   Yeah but see this is this is the moment [TS]

01:15:15   when in many of these conversations it starts becoming like so are you a socialist boy feel like. [TS]

01:15:23   No I'm not a socialist I this is this is not my like I haven't been sneakily trying to turn it over into the Soviet [TS]

01:15:32   States of America like this is not this is not my secret plan here but [TS]

01:15:36   but my my the reason why I think that happens is because people look at it with the current economic situation [TS]

01:15:44   and they look at the current things. [TS]

01:15:46   So what do you want to do do you want to raise taxes right now to pay for all of these people [TS]

01:15:51   and my position is I'm not talking about right now. What I'm talking about is as the unemployment rate rises. [TS]

01:16:00   What are we going to do. [TS]

01:16:02   Because my my thought on this is that the current level of technology that we are in it increases income inequality [TS]

01:16:12   and so if you have increasing amounts of automation what you should find as a society is that there are fewer [TS]

01:16:20   and fewer people who are collecting basically more and more of the resources of the society [TS]

01:16:26   and I don't even mean that on an individual level. I even mean that on a company level. [TS]

01:16:31   Yes the one of the things that is very fascinating. [TS]

01:16:34   There's a book that people should should check I mean there are many books on the subject [TS]

01:16:38   but one of which is particular interesting is called Average is over by Tyler Cowen I think is how you say his last [TS]

01:16:44   name and he goes through and talks about what two new companies look like. [TS]

01:16:51   And one of the things that is very interesting is saying OK let's take a look at the companies on the Fortune five [TS]

01:16:55   hundred list. And over the last twenty years in particular. [TS]

01:17:01   The number of employees per revenue dollar generated that ratio has just skyrocketed. [TS]

01:17:08   So you have companies like Apple which have relatively very very few employees [TS]

01:17:13   but Apple is sitting on the world's most gigantic pile of money they have they have so much money [TS]

01:17:19   but their company is very very few people. [TS]

01:17:22   Whereas when you go back in time [TS]

01:17:23   and you look at the biggest companies in the world you know in the one nine hundred sixty S. I think it was G.E. [TS]

01:17:28   and It was Ford and they employed hundreds of thousands of people. But Apple is like two thousand people. [TS]

01:17:36   It's some comically small amount of people and it's hugely more profitable than those old companies were [TS]

01:17:42   and it's the same with a just a ton of companies on the Fortune five hundred. [TS]

01:17:46   So this is what I mean by a kind of income inequality I don't even just mean particularly rich doods [TS]

01:17:50   but just tiny companies can and UPS are absorbing an enormous amount of wealth. [TS]

01:17:56   So what's going to happen to Apple when there's only five people left on earth that can afford. [TS]

01:18:00   An i Phone because we're all starving in the streets [TS]

01:18:02   and punching each other in the face as income inequality rises because of automation [TS]

01:18:10   and because you have large numbers of unemployed. [TS]

01:18:13   The only way to avert the riots is that you have to start talking about providing a minimum level of security to the [TS]

01:18:24   people who are unemployed or the people who are unemployable. That is the like. [TS]

01:18:29   Let's keep the wheels on the cart solution because as I said before I think you can't you can't stop companies from [TS]

01:18:36   becoming more efficient. [TS]

01:18:38   But if you leave that indefinitely you can end up in that giant pit of doom where there are riots in the streets. [TS]

01:18:43   So you need some kind of countervailing force to that. [TS]

01:18:47   So I know you're trying to sort of be you chew on the issue and you know you're not claiming to have all the answers [TS]

01:18:52   but to push you a bit more make you president gray for just a little bit longer. [TS]

01:18:56   KING I need to be king in these situations I need unilateral control with military force behind me. [TS]

01:19:02   Because on one hand it feels a bit like you're saying this is happening people. Stop stop ignoring it. [TS]

01:19:07   You know these cars are driving in California right now. [TS]

01:19:10   But on the other hand you're using a lot of language like we need to start thinking about we need to think about the [TS]

01:19:15   future you know we don't need to do anything now but we need to start thinking about what we do. [TS]

01:19:20   It says to me that we need to be doing something now. I guess that's what we need to be doing now I guess. [TS]

01:19:25   I guess this is for for the historical record my need to be thinking about a time scale is basically between now [TS]

01:19:33   and the point at which self driving cars are legal on the road not that quick that by the sounds of it yes that is what [TS]

01:19:41   I mean by that we need to be thinking about. [TS]

01:19:43   I am not putting the we need to be thinking about this for five years kind of issue [TS]

01:19:47   and I literally mean this like today. So what do we need to do do we need to. [TS]

01:19:52   Should we be connecting a huge pension pot of money for all these future unemployed over what I really think that the [TS]

01:19:59   starting. Point is the D. Stigmatization of of the unemployed. [TS]

01:20:04   Because I think if you can't get past that point you have no political capital to get anything done that is what it [TS]

01:20:11   where I see the most resistance comes from is people thinking oh I'm not going to support those lazy people who you [TS]

01:20:17   know who who aren't working and I have a job why can't they get a job and if you could you could pass a law [TS]

01:20:23   or increase a tax rate or do something to change us. [TS]

01:20:26   No You know you can not at all and that's that's why you can't change people's opinions with a law [TS]

01:20:33   but I think people who will listen to the show are aware that I am often very deeply cynical [TS]

01:20:38   and pessimistic about making meaningful change in the world I am not very optimistic about lots of those things even [TS]

01:20:45   though I am the guy who is known for making videos about how the voting system should be changed because I'm very much [TS]

01:20:52   aware that you just don't have. [TS]

01:20:56   The people who control those leavers of power are few [TS]

01:20:59   and so talking about a whole bunch of issues doesn't do anything to help those issues. [TS]

01:21:03   Yeah but this to me is much more like it's almost much more like a social issue and this is not the best comparison [TS]

01:21:11   but the first of the popping to my mind it's like it's like gay marriage. [TS]

01:21:16   The public sentiment shift on gay marriage has been remarkably quick compared to changes that have happened in the past. [TS]

01:21:25   Yeah [TS]

01:21:25   and I actually I would bet that that's also a side effect of of just like technology like the Internet allowing people [TS]

01:21:33   to organize much better than they ever could have before [TS]

01:21:36   and people being exposed much more easily to people who are different from them. [TS]

01:21:41   But the government couldn't pass a law that said everybody has to be OK with gay marriage [TS]

01:21:46   but none the less because it has been talked about so much in the media. [TS]

01:21:51   We have moved to this position where people are much much more on board with what gay marriage is [TS]

01:21:57   and that was not a that was not a legal thing. [TS]

01:22:00   That was just let's be aware of this as an issue thing [TS]

01:22:05   and so that's why I feel like I can make a video that is about this [TS]

01:22:08   and in some little way like I'm trying to contribute to a conversation of being aware that people are not able to work [TS]

01:22:17   not because they're lazy [TS]

01:22:18   but through no fault of their own that it that I said that's a marriage thing only became such a talking point because [TS]

01:22:26   people some people holding Laver's either started doing things [TS]

01:22:30   or started coming under pressure today things like It's not like we just it's not like someone's decided let's talk [TS]

01:22:36   about it on the Internet and then that happened for a year or two [TS]

01:22:40   and then the politicians said oh OK now we can start changing the rose like it does it does start at the top in some [TS]

01:22:47   ways and it feels like there does need to be. Some one somewhere. [TS]

01:22:51   Starting to pass laws or do things in this area for that conversation to stop or at least. [TS]

01:22:58   And they see people at the top saying we're thinking about changing the rules what do you all think. [TS]

01:23:03   Yeah I think social change is one of the few things that starts at the bottom. [TS]

01:23:07   The only reason anyone in power is even going to put that put that message out into the air of hey we're thinking about [TS]

01:23:14   doing the obviously right thing [TS]

01:23:16   and legalizing gay marriage would do you think about that my political base they would never even float that idea if it [TS]

01:23:23   wasn't already something that was in the ether as it were that is being discussed by people that is clearly an issue [TS]

01:23:30   that you know politicians don't decide to float ideas like just for the hell of it that you know they're they're trying [TS]

01:23:35   to test something to see if they're going to get reelected or not. [TS]

01:23:40   And so that's why I really do think that the first the first step is understanding that unemployment now is very [TS]

01:23:48   different. Right. There is this thing that I put a link in the show notes but it is. It's a chart that I think. [TS]

01:24:00   Again an example of showing us what is happening over time with the economy. [TS]

01:24:05   I'll paint a word picture now and it's a chart that shows G.D.P. [TS]

01:24:11   Gross domestic product adjusted for time from one nine hundred fifty until basically now [TS]

01:24:16   and pretty much just a line you know up in to the right there's a couple of dips but the trend is upward. [TS]

01:24:22   The other line is something called labor productivity which means how how much money do you get out of every employee [TS]

01:24:29   you have if you are a company basically and the same thing happened to the right [TS]

01:24:34   and that is that is also a side effect of technology. [TS]

01:24:36   You give your workers better technology they can do more stuff that's great but the other line is employment [TS]

01:24:43   and the employment line goes right along with the other two basically until about the early two thousands [TS]

01:24:52   and then from early two thousand until now. That line is basically flat. [TS]

01:24:58   The on the employment rate has not increased in basically a decade. Thank you. [TS]

01:25:05   Now the interesting thing about this graph is that basically as far as we have economic records this is never occurred [TS]

01:25:12   before that when you have ups and downs in the economy you have recessions you have depressions G.D.P. [TS]

01:25:20   Productivity and employment all go down at the same time and they all go up at the same time. [TS]

01:25:27   But what this shows is that we can literally see in the economy that in some ways like companies are now decoupled from [TS]

01:25:35   the people that they employ that companies are doing much better through automation technology. [TS]

01:25:41   But employment is just flat flat for a decade. Their fortunes are handcuffed to the footsoldiers anymore. [TS]

01:25:48   Yes And I mean this is one of the things that I think is really interesting is you know we've been in this recession [TS]

01:25:56   for quite a while now. But if you look around the world is still spinning. [TS]

01:26:00   If this is the supermarkets are full of food. [TS]

01:26:03   There's stuff to buy on the shelves that were not in some world that is is filled with hardship and woe. [TS]

01:26:10   But if you go back to previous recessions and depressions you think about the Great Depression. [TS]

01:26:16   It is characterized by a shortage of things. [TS]

01:26:19   There is not enough food there are not enough clothes and this is that this is kind of like workers [TS]

01:26:25   and the companies are tied together. [TS]

01:26:28   But now that's not the case and that's one of things I think is just so different about this is [TS]

01:26:32   when you talk about automation you are talking about machines that are able to produce all of the things that we want. [TS]

01:26:39   We have we still have food we have i Phones We have all of this stuff [TS]

01:26:42   but you just don't need people to make as many things as you did before. [TS]

01:26:47   And so that this this graph I think is particularly terrifying just to see that like the economy is taking off without [TS]

01:26:56   the humans being involved. [TS]

01:27:00   Today sponsor is audible dot com the leading provider of spoken audio information [TS]

01:27:04   and entertainment listen to audio books whenever and wherever you want. [TS]

01:27:07   Today's audio book is relevant to the conversation because it's one of the books I used while researching the video [TS]

01:27:13   that I just made. It's called Average is over by Tyler Cowen. [TS]

01:27:18   It's an interesting book because it's a little bit different from some of the other materials that I was researching [TS]

01:27:22   while putting together the video because it talks a lot about what is going to happen during this transition phase as [TS]

01:27:30   our economy switches from requiring humans to do just about everything into a world that is increasingly automated. [TS]

01:27:37   But his focus isn't on the automation it's about what is going to happen to the shape of the labor force as this comes [TS]

01:27:45   into effect. That may sound terribly boring as I'm describing it now but it is a very very interesting book. [TS]

01:27:52   And honestly if you're in the workforce right now it's probably a good book to pick up to just get some ideas about [TS]

01:27:58   what is going to happen structure. [TS]

01:28:00   Really to the economy within the five year time frame and I don't know if everybody is aware of this [TS]

01:28:05   but audible is an Amazon company and they have a feature where if you are like me say very interested in a book [TS]

01:28:12   and researching it you can get the audiobook version and then you can also get the Kindle version and audible [TS]

01:28:18   and Amazon will synchronize your location between the two of them so this is actually a book that I partially listen to [TS]

01:28:24   an audio book form and partly read and more importantly I could highlight and bookmark very easily [TS]

01:28:30   and have everything sync back and forth. [TS]

01:28:32   While I was listening to the audio book so that was really valuable [TS]

01:28:35   and it's one of the reasons why I quite like using audible books especially for stuff that for me anyway is work [TS]

01:28:42   related so if you're a student as well you might also be interested in using this feature from audible. [TS]

01:28:46   I find it very helpful. I hope you will as well. So that is my recommendation for this week. [TS]

01:28:51   Averages over by Tyler Cowen when you sign up to audible you can get that book for free. [TS]

01:28:57   So if you want to listen to it audible has it with over one hundred fifty thousand titles [TS]

01:29:01   and virtually every genre you'll find what you're looking for. [TS]

01:29:04   Get a free audio book and a thirty day trial today by signing up at Audible dot com slash hello internet. [TS]

01:29:09   All one word that's audible dot com slash hello internet. And there will also be a link in the show notes. [TS]

01:29:17   Why are you so interested in this what you say even talking about if it's been a ten year discussion that it's clearly [TS]

01:29:23   a video that was a very thought out and you know and well thought out this is obviously really important. [TS]

01:29:30   Are you scared for yourself for the first draft of this video with a flour mill section was an hour [TS]

01:29:35   and I had to burn the whole thing and then I got it to start over. Well who are you scared for. [TS]

01:29:43   And is this a person you personally scared or resist just President. [TS]

01:29:47   King graving aphoristic and worrying about his his subjects. [TS]

01:29:51   Well you know I'm I'm worried about society as a whole for this one I guess. [TS]

01:30:00   One of the things that I see in all the comments is people are asking what job is safe from automation [TS]

01:30:06   and you know I want to know what your what job to get [TS]

01:30:09   and my perspective is like that is that is really beside the issue because it's quite selfish. [TS]

01:30:17   Well [TS]

01:30:18   but it's not it's not even that it's a question of if we don't handle this right it doesn't matter if you have a stick [TS]

01:30:24   it doesn't matter if you have a job they can't be unemployed if this is how he around you is crumbling. [TS]

01:30:31   If I expect it doesn't matter if you got a nice ass if someone's throwing a brick through the window. [TS]

01:30:34   That's exactly and I think that that is probably one of the best leverage to kind of poll [TS]

01:30:42   when we talk about trying to actually implement change in the future. [TS]

01:30:46   Like hey rich person I know you know I might not want your taxes to go up [TS]

01:30:49   but you know since this whole technological change thing came along [TS]

01:30:52   and your wealth has increased twenty thousand percent through automation. Well. [TS]

01:30:57   It's not going to be worth a whole lot to you if the world is starving and people just you know tear down your gates [TS]

01:31:03   and I So I think [TS]

01:31:04   when people talk about what job should I get that a say from automation it's a bit of like I think you [TS]

01:31:11   and I are relatively safe. [TS]

01:31:12   The entertainment industry is a relatively safe place to be [TS]

01:31:16   and it doesn't really matter that you even if you have a job that you think is incredibly safe from automation this is [TS]

01:31:24   still a problem for you because it it it affects absolutely everyone. [TS]

01:31:29   I guess the place where this this started for me is back [TS]

01:31:35   when I was a young lad in college I came across a book called genetic programming Volumes one two [TS]

01:31:44   and three I got called codes [TS]

01:31:47   and those were amazing books about computer programming there was always this alternate life that I wonder about where [TS]

01:31:53   I had become a computer programmer instead of becoming a physics teacher that was a possibility. [TS]

01:32:00   But these books were amazingly eye opening to me because what they were was well the thing that I talked about very [TS]

01:32:07   briefly in the video was not how to write a computer program [TS]

01:32:12   but how to write a program that can figure out on its own the solution to some kind of problem which just blew my mind [TS]

01:32:23   that this kind of thing was even possible. [TS]

01:32:25   And I just devoured those books and I was playing around with all the source code [TS]

01:32:30   and I really think there is a version of my life that might have gone much more down that route because I just I just [TS]

01:32:36   found it absolutely fascinating [TS]

01:32:37   and you can talk about how this works is just so beyond the scope of an audio podcast to talk about this but. [TS]

01:32:45   Just very briefly I'll say that you can talk about it it does one of two things either simulates the way the human [TS]

01:32:50   brain does stuff with kind of pretended neurons in the computer that you can show things [TS]

01:32:55   and teach it yes this was right no this was right [TS]

01:32:58   and this this network of neurons learns on its own which is just amazing to see. [TS]

01:33:04   Or you do something where you basically you have an artificial environment in which you create a bunch of random [TS]

01:33:10   programs and you let you basically run evolution on that you let them breed with each other [TS]

01:33:15   and produce child programs and you measure how effective those child programs are [TS]

01:33:19   and then you keep running generations on this and you can come up with programs that can solve things. [TS]

01:33:24   And the interesting thing is that you as the programmer have no idea how it works. [TS]

01:33:29   That was a thing that I found the most amazing was I well I would type up a program [TS]

01:33:34   and I would let the computer run overnight [TS]

01:33:35   and so I'd come up you know in the morning it would be something like twenty thousand generations of digital programs [TS]

01:33:40   had lived and died and there was some program that could solve a problem for me and I would look at it [TS]

01:33:45   and go nope no idea how it has worked. I can't even remotely figure out how it works. [TS]

01:33:51   It's thousands and thousands of lines of code long. It's just impossible but I found that really fascinating and. [TS]

01:34:01   That we that was for me was it was when I was like whoa. This this is a big deal because you've glimpsed the power. [TS]

01:34:10   Yeah [TS]

01:34:10   and this is again the case where you overestimate change in the short term because at that point I thought like man this [TS]

01:34:17   is going to storm the world just immediately [TS]

01:34:19   and the answer is it has not except that basically now a lot of these things are really coming into their own because [TS]

01:34:28   the computing technology has gotten fast enough that it was it was really a we need computers to be ten years faster in [TS]

01:34:35   order to do some of this stuff in a in a realistic way the problems I was having it solve were very very simple [TS]

01:34:40   but that was the thing that really sparked my interest in this and just realizing boy. [TS]

01:34:45   Anybody who's job is to sit at a computer and manipulate things entirely digitally. [TS]

01:34:52   Their jobs are really in danger [TS]

01:34:55   and that's the one thing I didn't talk about in the video because it's not as easy to show visually. [TS]

01:35:00   It's so easy to talk about oh these factory workers and these truck drivers are all going to lose their jobs. [TS]

01:35:08   But I actually think that the people at the biggest risk are not blue collar workers [TS]

01:35:13   but it is white collar workers people who do just work at a computer all day long. [TS]

01:35:18   If you are a plumber if you are an electrician if you if you have any kind of job [TS]

01:35:24   or part of your job is to go into somebody else's house or to deal with humans in a very direct way. [TS]

01:35:31   Those jobs tend to be blue collar jobs [TS]

01:35:33   and I think those jobs are relatively safe in terms of protection from automation. [TS]

01:35:40   But if your whole job is sitting at a computer I guarantee you if your company is big enough they have hired an [TS]

01:35:45   automation engineer who was working to get rid of your jobs [TS]

01:35:48   and I have gotten a bunch of anonymous e-mails from very very guilty automation engineers who feel terrible that this [TS]

01:35:58   is what they what they have. [TS]

01:36:00   Do they like yes I work it's funny and I'm in the basement and nobody knows I'm here [TS]

01:36:06   and I am I am basically required every quarter to be able to automate some portion of the work force that is happening [TS]

01:36:13   in the gigantic building above me. [TS]

01:36:15   You remind me of a great story that that is probably long enough ago now that I can risk telling it [TS]

01:36:21   and all of the people involved including myself and my mates [TS]

01:36:24   and high enough up food chains that we can risk the story getting out. I mean treatment. [TS]

01:36:31   When I first started as a cadet journalist on a newspaper one of the lot. [TS]

01:36:37   We would every three months we would change roles so you would get three months of doing you know getting to be like a [TS]

01:36:43   news reporter with the police reporters [TS]

01:36:45   and three months of you know in the business section writing business stories and things like that [TS]

01:36:51   but also three month stints where you did really crummy jobs that just had to be done by you know by the mill [TS]

01:36:57   and because you're a cadet journalist that was that was your thing. And one of them was reformatting the T.V. Guide. [TS]

01:37:03   We would be sent from the T.V. Stations like their their programs of what shows were on what times for the UK the T.V. [TS]

01:37:10   Magazine that was inserted in the newspaper every week and we had to go through [TS]

01:37:14   and make all the correct style like the time of the show had to be in bold [TS]

01:37:19   and the rating of the show whether it was suitable for children and that had to be in italics [TS]

01:37:23   and it was a really really menial boring job and it was a week long job. [TS]

01:37:27   You would usually by Friday you would finish reformatting the T.V. Program so it could be printed inside in the paper. [TS]

01:37:34   So in a way this mate of mine he was pretty clever with computers used there were that there were kind of you know [TS]

01:37:40   algorithms that screwed computer system could run but no one really knew how they worked. [TS]

01:37:45   Think memory case and you could press a case and it would run a quick script [TS]

01:37:50   and he figured out a way to completely automate this job so you would just have the program get scanned in [TS]

01:37:58   and all the text was there. [TS]

01:38:00   And he could just press one or two of these memory case and he would automatically identify the times [TS]

01:38:05   and make them BOWDEN The sort of thing that people can easily do now but at the time [TS]

01:38:10   but at the time you know I ten no longer than ten fifteen years ago this was this was cutting edge [TS]

01:38:16   but it was kept a secret that we had figured out how to do this you know I think it was like when [TS]

01:38:23   when your three month stint came to do the T.V. [TS]

01:38:25   Programs you were like like like Harry Potter being given his life without a Marauder's Map. [TS]

01:38:31   You were taken aside [TS]

01:38:32   and told you are not to tell anyone that we have cracked if all you have to do on Monday morning is the press let [TS]

01:38:39   number and the rest of the week is yours to do with as you please. [TS]

01:38:44   That it had and I would you know go to the movies or play table tennis games [TS]

01:38:48   and it became the secret the secret past him and it was a great example of automation completely making a job done. [TS]

01:38:56   But we kept We kept the fact that our job had been made redundant a secret. [TS]

01:39:00   Yes from the from the boss and say I'm sure that job is not redundant but I was happy it was good to get [TS]

01:39:07   and it's funny that I have I have run across a number of examples of computer programmers who are who have told similar [TS]

01:39:15   tales where they have basically said oh yes I have figured out how to automate my own job and I'll just sitting quiet. [TS]

01:39:22   Once but I like I like that you like this idea of a rotating secret society of taking someone aside [TS]

01:39:29   and I think that's great. [TS]

01:39:33   That's really going to go I hit the guy he did is now really really senior in the company like he's one of the most [TS]

01:39:38   senior managers in the company so I'll have to send in this and tell him that you have to say I think [TS]

01:39:43   and his staff are doing that. I'm sure he'd be very upset if you could get rid of the record of what they see. [TS]

01:39:49   It says we could possibly talk about this some more I'm sure there's going to be lots of lots more say that now [TS]

01:39:54   and you read it and things like that so yeah I'm sure the next podcast follow up will be. [TS]

01:40:00   Significant I think we should quickly talk about with the former take you our former teacher you've mentioned that yeah [TS]

01:40:06   we did assign homework but are you going to do a trade here for the for the business and let them off the homework. [TS]

01:40:14   I am going to do something which I did very often as a teacher which is trying to wait until the last possible minute [TS]

01:40:26   and then be like oh the bells just gone. I wanted to collect your homework. [TS]

01:40:32   I really didn't but I can't do it right now. Off you go and I will see you next week. [TS]

01:40:37   Students former students of mine I can pretty much guarantee any time I forgot to collect homework I almost very rarely [TS]

01:40:45   actually forgot to collect homework. [TS]

01:40:47   And I guarantee you that the same is true with a whole bunch of your teachers just because you didn't want to. [TS]

01:40:51   Yeah basically I was I was part of my eternal strategy to reduce the volume of homework that ever passed through my [TS]

01:40:58   hands. No other teachers have done a similar thing like oh let me forget and then I didn't assign homework this time. [TS]

01:41:06   Although I have to say I did have kids who are just like the kids on T.V. [TS]

01:41:11   and Everybody's had this in the class goes well Miss Grey you didn't assign the homework right [TS]

01:41:15   or who tried to warn you before the bell is going to come up. [TS]

01:41:19   What collect our homework plays we haven't when I don't and I spent all night doing it or. [TS]

01:41:23   Oh [TS]

01:41:23   but you didn't give us any homework assignment for you know for this time I don't like those kids just as much as everybody [TS]

01:41:29   else in the class. [TS]

01:41:32   Listen you're not you're not playing along here right where you're all better off if I forget to collect the homework. [TS]

01:41:40   Everybody wins. [TS]

01:41:41   It never occurred to me as a student that the teacher actually was on the same team as me [TS]

01:41:45   and this is every thought about you know I think about that when you're a kid. [TS]

01:41:49   Yeah kids do not understand like you and the teacher are on the same page. [TS]

01:41:55   The kids are viewing this as an adversarial role as a you do not understand how much we're on the same page so. [TS]

01:42:00   Yes I'm going to forget to collect homework now [TS]

01:42:03   and you have a one extra week to watch Black Mirror which you should because it is amazing that asking people to watch [TS]

01:42:11   all the episodes of black Marilyn Are there specific ones you want them to watch I think you should watch them all [TS]

01:42:15   because they're made or six of them. [TS]

01:42:17   Series one series two three episodes with anything else you wanted to you were told I could talk about robots forever [TS]

01:42:22   but we'll talk about more and more in the future as it comes up naturally if it does [TS]

01:42:26   but was there anything else you want to talk about no I mean this is there's lots going on [TS]

01:42:30   but there's nothing that can't wait for Episode twenty and the finale of series to Yes Esther [TS]

01:42:36   and I have to be honest I don't mind. Well actually I was about to say making this episode. [TS]

01:42:41   Shorter [TS]

01:42:42   but I just realize we've been recording for about two hours now because I don't mind making this absurd shorter just [TS]

01:42:47   because I'm at my wits end absolutely exhausted [TS]

01:42:52   and still trying to have a bunch of really stressful projects to get done as fast as possible [TS]

01:42:57   and then I need to take a vacation so I do not mind having a shorter one well let's stop recording so you can start. [TS]