The Incomparable

204: Where Cynicism Meets Optimism


00:00:06   the incomparable number 204 july 2014 [TS]

00:00:13   welcome back everybody to be comfortable [TS]

00:00:15   i am your host Jason Snell and we're [TS]

00:00:18   here it with a little episode that I [TS]

00:00:19   think it's going to be timely we're [TS]

00:00:21   releasing this over comic-con weekend [TS]

00:00:23   and it's about the news news that has [TS]

00:00:26   happened in practice yesterday or at [TS]

00:00:28   least in the last couple of weeks which [TS]

00:00:30   is we're going to talk about recasting [TS]

00:00:32   comic book characters and when I don't [TS]

00:00:35   mean recasting characters in comic book [TS]

00:00:39   movies you know like whoever is playing [TS]

00:00:41   who is playing daredevil in this TV show [TS]

00:00:43   it's not Ben Affleck is now he's Batman [TS]

00:00:45   speaking of recasting and there's [TS]

00:00:48   different Batman's you do wonder there's [TS]

00:00:49   probably a chain and Captain America [TS]

00:00:51   used to be the human torch and that's [TS]

00:00:53   not what this episode is about this [TS]

00:00:55   episode is about although we may get [TS]

00:00:57   there because we will go off the rails [TS]

00:00:58   and we'll end up there but but I want to [TS]

00:01:01   state our initial premise that you can [TS]

00:01:02   see where we go from here [TS]

00:01:04   our initial premises there was there was [TS]

00:01:06   news recently about how Marvel Comics is [TS]

00:01:09   going to change the character of Thor [TS]

00:01:10   and there's going to be a female Thor [TS]

00:01:12   and she's not like a another character [TS]

00:01:16   who is now taking the mantle and it's [TS]

00:01:18   not like she Thor or something like that [TS]

00:01:20   she is going to be Thor so the new [TS]

00:01:21   aspect of Thor is going to be a woman [TS]

00:01:23   and then we also heard that as announced [TS]

00:01:26   on the colbert report that Sam Wilson [TS]

00:01:30   the Falcon who is also by the way the [TS]

00:01:32   most interesting character I thought in [TS]

00:01:33   a like the best thing about the the the [TS]

00:01:36   latest captain america movie which I [TS]

00:01:37   like a lot but I thought the Falcon was [TS]

00:01:39   like awesome part of it that the Falcon [TS]

00:01:42   Sam Wilson is going to be the new [TS]

00:01:44   captain america and there's been some [TS]

00:01:47   controversy about this and there's been [TS]

00:01:49   a lot of chatter because you know comic [TS]

00:01:51   books people of talking about comic [TS]

00:01:52   books and getting angry and arguing and [TS]

00:01:54   all of that and i thought we're not [TS]

00:01:55   going to get angry as we've said on the [TS]

00:01:57   show me numerous times we're all friends [TS]

00:01:59   here we're gonna come we're going to [TS]

00:02:00   talk with leave his friends come as [TS]

00:02:01   friendly as friends [TS]

00:02:03   kindness is Magic all that it's not [TS]

00:02:05   there's a there's a uncomfortable [TS]

00:02:06   charter that you haven't read but trust [TS]

00:02:09   me it's all good things anyway so that's [TS]

00:02:11   the that's the topic is what i'm saying [TS]

00:02:13   is we're going to talk about recasting [TS]

00:02:14   comic books comic book characters and [TS]

00:02:17   probably a little bit about [TS]

00:02:19   reasons you choose to make changes to [TS]

00:02:22   comic book characters in comic cannon [TS]

00:02:24   and let me having completed my opening [TS]

00:02:27   remarks ensure he's a vision [TS]

00:02:29   I'm now going to introduce my fantastic [TS]

00:02:33   panel Monty Ashley hello hello Jason [TS]

00:02:37   we didn't recast you I thought about it [TS]

00:02:39   but let's not keep the original Monty i [TS]

00:02:42   am the original model you are the [TS]

00:02:43   original Monty 100-percent Brianna was [TS]

00:02:47   back for another adventure with the [TS]

00:02:49   uncomfortable [TS]

00:02:49   thank you so much for being here what's [TS]

00:02:52   crackalackin high and we we had a little [TS]

00:02:54   Twitter conversation that sort of [TS]

00:02:55   prompted this whole episode we did it [TS]

00:02:57   was exciting yeah that was excited [TS]

00:02:58   really interesting it was like where [TS]

00:03:00   cynicism met optimism was on on Twitter [TS]

00:03:03   all places who know because that's such [TS]

00:03:06   a nice description and we really that's [TS]

00:03:08   what I you I love that you are able to [TS]

00:03:12   pick the most generous nice cash thanks [TS]

00:03:15   that's a talent but it was positivity [TS]

00:03:17   coming from a direction that I didn't [TS]

00:03:19   expect and negativity coming from a dip [TS]

00:03:21   it was like everything's topsy-turvy and [TS]

00:03:23   it was fascinating and I thought this [TS]

00:03:24   was worth a conversation [TS]

00:03:26   David laura is also out there hi david [TS]

00:03:28   haye contractually obligated to be here [TS]

00:03:31   i'm wearing my officially licensed dan [TS]

00:03:33   more in Boston Red Sox cap just innately [TS]

00:03:36   recast and more and as David de laura is [TS]

00:03:38   now playing the part of the morn that [TS]

00:03:39   that happened like six months ago nobody [TS]

00:03:41   really noticed because you know there's [TS]

00:03:43   something where the same hat it's fine [TS]

00:03:45   and also out there is an do not co hi [TS]

00:03:49   Andy [TS]

00:03:49   I just want to say that if I had known [TS]

00:03:52   about this earlier i could change the [TS]

00:03:54   character of Thor in my blade runner [TS]

00:03:57   Fantastic Four fanfic but i can't it's [TS]

00:04:00   too late it's already kindled single [TS]

00:04:02   you're just gonna happen when we get to [TS]

00:04:04   the sex scene is going to be weird that [TS]

00:04:05   it's a guy in a woman now but I I could [TS]

00:04:09   fix it if I would if I could but they're [TS]

00:04:12   the the pressures of the marketplace [TS]

00:04:14   have absolutely not the underpinnings of [TS]

00:04:16   this project out it was it was going to [TS]

00:04:17   be great but I guess that's a kindle [TS]

00:04:19   worlds project write fanfic on kindle [TS]

00:04:22   well within the private vonnegut but [TS]

00:04:26   featured marvel superhero [TS]

00:04:28   listen can i pee amazon ten dollars a [TS]

00:04:31   month and just download as much fanfic [TS]

00:04:33   as I want because I would totally do [TS]

00:04:35   that that would be great [TS]

00:04:37   Jeff Bezos if you're listening yeah come [TS]

00:04:40   on come on [TS]

00:04:41   free market date let's get to it said if [TS]

00:04:43   anybody can make people pay for fanfic [TS]

00:04:45   it would be Jeff pieces would find a way [TS]

00:04:47   fanfic prime I'm what have you done so [TS]

00:04:52   this news came out and issues so that [TS]

00:04:55   the Twitter conversation diluted to that [TS]

00:04:57   that Briana and I had with some other [TS]

00:04:59   people on Twitter Josh centers was in [TS]

00:05:01   there there's a bunch of people in there [TS]

00:05:02   and and I was definitely when I read the [TS]

00:05:06   news i had I two thoughts about the [TS]

00:05:09   above for recasting and one of them was [TS]

00:05:12   uh was it's great to see Marvel doing [TS]

00:05:15   some things about diversity I thought [TS]

00:05:19   about a conversation we had about the [TS]

00:05:21   jkb Star Trek movies and how they [TS]

00:05:23   inherited a cast that although at the [TS]

00:05:27   time in the sixties was diverse it [TS]

00:05:29   turned out to not be by our standards [TS]

00:05:31   today not be particularly to diverse [TS]

00:05:33   there's one woman there are only two [TS]

00:05:35   people of color in that on that show and [TS]

00:05:37   so I thought about before recasting well [TS]

00:05:39   that you know this is another strong [TS]

00:05:40   female character than bringing in like [TS]

00:05:42   this Marvel like Captain Marvel and [TS]

00:05:44   that's great but i also had my comic [TS]

00:05:46   book fan boy burn too many times [TS]

00:05:48   reaction which was this is this is a [TS]

00:05:50   publicity stunt [TS]

00:05:52   this is gonna be undone in six months [TS]

00:05:55   and I felt kind of offended because I [TS]

00:05:58   felt like you could choose to be like in [TS]

00:06:00   create new strong female characters or [TS]

00:06:03   you could do like use it for publicity [TS]

00:06:06   son and for me that kind of goes to the [TS]

00:06:08   heart of this is there are there that [TS]

00:06:11   for me there's a question and and maybe [TS]

00:06:13   it doesn't really matter in the end I [TS]

00:06:14   think that's worth discussing [TS]

00:06:16   but it's uh it is I wonder is marvel [TS]

00:06:19   being diverse because they truly believe [TS]

00:06:22   that they need their characters to [TS]

00:06:23   reflect more accurately reflect the [TS]

00:06:25   world are or is this a cheap publicity [TS]

00:06:28   stunt and why can't it be both [TS]

00:06:30   I suppose it's the other way to view it [TS]

00:06:33   so Briana you know you and I were given [TS]

00:06:35   this I your perspective on this was [TS]

00:06:37   really interesting which you if if i can [TS]

00:06:39   simplify it down and then [TS]

00:06:41   love you to expand on it is is you know [TS]

00:06:44   what it sort of doesn't matter what [TS]

00:06:45   their motivation is the fact is that [TS]

00:06:47   girls who pick up a comic book now are [TS]

00:06:49   going to see Thor as this strong woman [TS]

00:06:52   and that matters so let me since I'm the [TS]

00:06:56   only woman on this panel said let me I [TS]

00:06:59   share our perspective about what it's [TS]

00:07:01   like to be a female comic book fan I'm [TS]

00:07:04   so you go to the comic book store and [TS]

00:07:08   you're overwhelmed with like women in [TS]

00:07:10   super sexual poses with giant boobs and [TS]

00:07:14   it's constantly this experience of like [TS]

00:07:17   where am I represented here where my [TS]

00:07:20   heroes where people I can relate to and [TS]

00:07:22   you know if you go down the list of [TS]

00:07:25   movies just in the last few years I'm [TS]

00:07:27   just going to list some of them Batman [TS]

00:07:29   Superman the punisher captain america [TS]

00:07:31   judge dredd daredevil Hulk ghostrider [TS]

00:07:34   Iron Man Wolverine Green Lantern [TS]

00:07:36   spider-man Thor you know it's there's no [TS]

00:07:40   shortage of movies and comic books [TS]

00:07:43   featuring white straight men as the [TS]

00:07:46   protagonist so I just I'm done really [TS]

00:07:49   really excited to see a character that I [TS]

00:07:52   always thought was so boring and just [TS]

00:07:56   have to know your enemy of [TS]

00:07:58   hyper-masculine eyes like just blandness [TS]

00:08:02   I mean I think like the actor playing [TS]

00:08:05   Thor is very cute but the character I [TS]

00:08:08   just I don't relate or care about him [TS]

00:08:11   even remotely and I just thought this [TS]

00:08:14   was such a really cool twist on a [TS]

00:08:17   character I just had no affinity for and [TS]

00:08:20   you're turning door into this powerful [TS]

00:08:23   strong woman like wearing armor and [TS]

00:08:26   carrying a big giant hammer if that's [TS]

00:08:28   awesome i mean this is completely [TS]

00:08:30   awesome [TS]

00:08:31   yeah it's a you also i should say you [TS]

00:08:34   know how boring Thor can be is that they [TS]

00:08:35   have to give him a special font to the [TS]

00:08:38   fact that i learned about different [TS]

00:08:41   typefaces is what the store talk with a [TS]

00:08:43   funny font that's weird [TS]

00:08:45   and now you're trashing Sandman what's [TS]

00:08:47   going on oh I'm sorry I love Sophie look [TS]

00:08:49   let's not trash Walt Simonson running [TS]

00:08:52   for that I think is one of the greatest [TS]

00:08:53   runs i do love it [TS]

00:08:54   I do love it and that thats the beta ray [TS]

00:08:56   bill picked up the hammer right that [TS]

00:08:58   might have been the last truly epic and [TS]

00:09:00   really exciting run on forever i will [TS]

00:09:02   outlaw for that but a kit you can be [TS]

00:09:05   interesting I just I just needed to [TS]

00:09:06   defend Walt Simonson is run by the [TS]

00:09:09   scripting and his artwork incredible I i [TS]

00:09:12   guess it's like I couldn't help but you [TS]

00:09:14   know I've heard so many people saying [TS]

00:09:16   you know it's a publicity stunt it's a [TS]

00:09:18   publicity stunt and you don't get me [TS]

00:09:20   wrong i was burned by Superman coming [TS]

00:09:23   back to life to you know like i know i [TS]

00:09:26   know where that cynicism comes from but [TS]

00:09:29   I think you can look at the Marvel [TS]

00:09:31   leadership scom ents on this issue and I [TS]

00:09:33   think you can look at what their pattern [TS]

00:09:36   of behavior has been in the last four [TS]

00:09:39   years in it it really does seem like a [TS]

00:09:43   genuine honest truthful commitment to [TS]

00:09:46   the filling this in this marketplace [TS]

00:09:50   need for diversity [TS]

00:09:52   I mean diversity is something the market [TS]

00:09:55   is demanding like they're feeling you [TS]

00:09:57   know they're they're fulfilling the [TS]

00:09:58   consumer need and it just I I don't [TS]

00:10:03   understand where the cynicism is coming [TS]

00:10:05   down I feel like the traditional wisdom [TS]

00:10:07   is that the comic books have to stay as [TS]

00:10:09   close as possible to the movies so you [TS]

00:10:11   expect Thor to start looking more and [TS]

00:10:14   more like Chris Hemsworth when for them [TS]

00:10:16   to literally not do that but right in [TS]

00:10:20   the middle of Thor's biggest mainstream [TS]

00:10:24   success ever make it change like this I [TS]

00:10:26   think is actually pretty daring of them [TS]

00:10:28   and not just if it's a publicity stunt [TS]

00:10:31   it's not a cheap one is I guess my [TS]

00:10:33   position I think that's a good point [TS]

00:10:34   although i will point out that the thor [TS]

00:10:36   movie just came out and i'm reminded and [TS]

00:10:39   of amazing spider-man 700 when it came [TS]

00:10:42   out where they killed Peter Parker and [TS]

00:10:43   they put dr. octopus in charge of [TS]

00:10:46   spider-man's body and they said well [TS]

00:10:48   superior spider-man now that's going to [TS]

00:10:51   be the new thing and everybody at the [TS]

00:10:52   time cynically said well until amazing [TS]

00:10:55   spider-man 2 comes out and i'm not [TS]

00:10:57   kidding they returned Peter Parker to [TS]

00:10:59   his own body the month the amazing [TS]

00:11:02   spider-man 2 cats are you feeling that [TS]

00:11:04   that's it and and and that's not [TS]

00:11:06   necessarily a bad thing [TS]

00:11:08   I mean where we of course we had a [TS]

00:11:09   really brought up the death of superman [TS]

00:11:10   i think that even at the time [TS]

00:11:13   DC was like look we acknowledge this is [TS]

00:11:15   just a comic book we're not going to [TS]

00:11:17   never ever again publish comments with [TS]

00:11:19   this one of the single most popular [TS]

00:11:21   fictional characters in the history of [TS]

00:11:23   fictional characters but we want to [TS]

00:11:24   spend the next year or two [TS]

00:11:26   exploring what the DC universe would be [TS]

00:11:28   like where Jesus Christ has been killed [TS]

00:11:31   in front of everybody and he did not [TS]

00:11:32   come back to life three days later so i [TS]

00:11:34   think these can be interesting stories I [TS]

00:11:36   don't say that I'm I'm cynical more like [TS]

00:11:39   I'm just weary its looks it's this has [TS]

00:11:42   got to be the fourth time in about a [TS]

00:11:44   year-and-a-half we're not only has [TS]

00:11:46   Marvel done they were putting a [TS]

00:11:47   different person in the costume and open [TS]

00:11:50   this is for real this is not just a [TS]

00:11:51   quick stunt not but not only has that [TS]

00:11:54   not only has that happened four times [TS]

00:11:56   now but it's it's just that they've made [TS]

00:12:00   a very very big deal in all media about [TS]

00:12:03   how what an incredible groundbreaking [TS]

00:12:05   thing whereas they turned Thor into a [TS]

00:12:07   frog tutoring wondering Simonson's from [TS]

00:12:10   during time since run and all that [TS]

00:12:13   happened was that the last panel of a [TS]

00:12:15   very extended battle scene between him [TS]

00:12:17   and Loki he's turned into a frog because [TS]

00:12:19   it sits at part part part part so part [TS]

00:12:22   of it for me isn't that I i think they [TS]

00:12:23   could have a good time exploring all of [TS]

00:12:25   these are stories where the Falcons now [TS]

00:12:27   have to a an african-american man has to [TS]

00:12:30   assume the role of the app iconic [TS]

00:12:32   patriotic super super soldier and [TS]

00:12:35   there's going to be a female role in one [TS]

00:12:36   of the most dead Bush manly he manly [TS]

00:12:39   swaggering Lee manly swing a hammer and [TS]

00:12:41   make everybody look at it [TS]

00:12:42   comic but now that they're still it's [TS]

00:12:45   there it's it's the fact that they have [TS]

00:12:47   to bring this up aren't we wonderful and [TS]

00:12:49   are we not afraid to kick over and Tails [TS]

00:12:51   it's like no you're do you realize that [TS]

00:12:54   you can get a spot on The Colbert Report [TS]

00:12:57   and on the view with this news and you [TS]

00:12:59   can get a lot of publicity for this news [TS]

00:13:01   and let's just acknowledge that this is [TS]

00:13:03   something you do because you need to get [TS]

00:13:05   that kind of exposure in that kind of [TS]

00:13:06   coverage is product is so cynical that's [TS]

00:13:10   not cynical it'sit's separate know its [TS]

00:13:13   separate for its they're two different [TS]

00:13:14   reactions i think that there's the [TS]

00:13:17   reaction to the actual comic itself [TS]

00:13:19   which has to wait until these comics [TS]

00:13:20   were published [TS]

00:13:21   and then there's the no I'm serious but [TS]

00:13:24   the other thing is that now that you're [TS]

00:13:25   this is being announced and we have two [TS]

00:13:27   months to think about it does this make [TS]

00:13:29   me excited about buying this comic and [TS]

00:13:31   given that there are any given month [TS]

00:13:33   about 20-30 really good comics and vying [TS]

00:13:35   for that four dollars it's like okay [TS]

00:13:37   you're not showing me anything that I [TS]

00:13:39   haven't seen in a couple years so it's [TS]

00:13:42   not about you it's about the legions is [TS]

00:13:44   friend and I really want for my for my [TS]

00:13:47   i'm talking about my four dollars it is [TS]

00:13:49   all about me for this four dollars that [TS]

00:13:52   i can spend her i cannot spend it is [TS]

00:13:54   completely about me if I'm not excited [TS]

00:13:55   about it that's fine i'm not saying that [TS]

00:13:57   no one else should be excited about it [TS]

00:13:58   I'm saying that this does not make me [TS]

00:14:00   eagerly anticipate this new comic but [TS]

00:14:03   not like enough lead the way that the [TS]

00:14:05   numerous Marvel did which I said wow [TS]

00:14:06   this writer with this topic I've got [TS]

00:14:09   four dollars set aside for that [TS]

00:14:10   so again I'm not decrying anybody else [TS]

00:14:12   is interested in this I'm not even [TS]

00:14:13   saying this is not important for the [TS]

00:14:15   larger thing general that more people [TS]

00:14:17   get represented I'm saying that for four [TS]

00:14:20   dollars in my pocket to be moving from [TS]

00:14:22   my pocket to Marvel's bankbook this does [TS]

00:14:25   not get me that excited about it there [TS]

00:14:27   there's no shortage of heroes out there [TS]

00:14:31   for you and the thing is if your geek [TS]

00:14:35   girl there is a real real lack of women [TS]

00:14:38   that are in this role and I know so many [TS]

00:14:42   women that are super hyped up about [TS]

00:14:44   buying Thor for the first time in our [TS]

00:14:47   entire life i mean i've read of faith or [TS]

00:14:49   comic books but when I say it's not [TS]

00:14:52   about you it's not saying that like [TS]

00:14:54   you're you're not entitled to feel [TS]

00:14:57   thrilled about this comic book but i'm [TS]

00:15:00   saying this this whole move is not [TS]

00:15:02   towards you it's it's actually aimed [TS]

00:15:04   more towards people like me it's aimed [TS]

00:15:07   towards the Legion of women out there [TS]

00:15:09   that do like comic books but don't find [TS]

00:15:12   herself represented so I would I would [TS]

00:15:15   respectfully say that ultimately this is [TS]

00:15:18   not really something that it's it's it's [TS]

00:15:22   just you're not the focus here [TS]

00:15:23   does that make sense to you yes but I [TS]

00:15:26   again I want to make sure that when i'm [TS]

00:15:28   saying is clear as possible that i did [TS]

00:15:30   not make myself clear [TS]

00:15:32   I'm saying I'm saying that [TS]

00:15:34   a given that i see this idea so many [TS]

00:15:37   times this is not a standout idea to me [TS]

00:15:40   and soon enough and so I can state with [TS]

00:15:43   absolute authority that this is not the [TS]

00:15:44   sort of thing that gets me excited about [TS]

00:15:45   buying the next Captain America buying [TS]

00:15:47   the new captain america books buying the [TS]

00:15:49   new Thor books and these are two books [TS]

00:15:50   that have not bought in the past this is [TS]

00:15:53   this is completely separate has [TS]

00:15:54   absolutely no relevance to is this a [TS]

00:15:57   good idea is this a good thing and two [TS]

00:15:59   other people have shit should they be [TS]

00:16:01   genuinely interested in this because [TS]

00:16:03   everybody's gonna make their own [TS]

00:16:04   decisions and have their own reaction to [TS]

00:16:05   this i'm saying what all i want to sort [TS]

00:16:08   of respond to is the idea that this is a [TS]

00:16:11   cynical response it isn't because I'm [TS]

00:16:13   someone who's participating in the [TS]

00:16:14   marketplace [TS]

00:16:15   I have been served the cooked steamed [TS]

00:16:17   broccoli many times I have never been [TS]

00:16:19   excited about steam cook broccoli I've [TS]

00:16:21   tried steam cook broccoli many times and [TS]

00:16:23   never enjoyed it [TS]

00:16:24   this will affect whether you're going to [TS]

00:16:26   excite me about saying over two months [TS]

00:16:27   we're gonna be serving you just cook [TS]

00:16:29   steamed broccoli i might not show up for [TS]

00:16:31   that dinner but that still does not it [TS]

00:16:33   that does not impute broccoli as a dish [TS]

00:16:35   I'm just saying that you know your sort [TS]

00:16:36   of saying you this is a marvel this is a [TS]

00:16:38   marvel story story decision with big [TS]

00:16:42   publicity like for example the death of [TS]

00:16:44   the human torch and that doesn't [TS]

00:16:47   necessarily lead toward good [TS]

00:16:49   storytelling not necessarily as opposed [TS]

00:16:52   to something like well with his Marvel [TS]

00:16:53   announcement which was a lot lower key [TS]

00:16:55   and as a sort of new storyline and is i [TS]

00:16:58   mean i'm reading that too and I think [TS]

00:17:00   that's fantastic i'm just interested in [TS]

00:17:03   that in that and that difference there [TS]

00:17:04   that it seems to me like you're weary of [TS]

00:17:06   the of these big events being promised [TS]

00:17:10   and not actually leading to stories that [TS]

00:17:12   you are interested in reading or that [TS]

00:17:14   you final worth know that that's not a [TS]

00:17:17   again they're there to that the problem [TS]

00:17:19   is that it was it was great when about [TS]

00:17:22   10-15 years ago when Kompany's felt as [TS]

00:17:25   though [TS]

00:17:25   well we're not if we're not ever going [TS]

00:17:27   to get the front page New York Times [TS]

00:17:29   you're not ever going to be a story on a [TS]

00:17:31   news program that gets five or six [TS]

00:17:32   million people it is we're already we're [TS]

00:17:34   always going to be sort of marketing [TS]

00:17:35   these towards our fans people who are [TS]

00:17:37   aware of it and maybe friends of those [TS]

00:17:39   fans now that it's that that meant that [TS]

00:17:41   if I were already an ongoing reader of [TS]

00:17:45   Thor [TS]

00:17:46   i would i would get to the end of it [TS]

00:17:48   gets the end of an issue and without any [TS]

00:17:50   knowledge this is coming whatsoever [TS]

00:17:51   see that oh well now that we're now that [TS]

00:17:53   we've got this new person in the role of [TS]

00:17:55   Thor this new person the role of Captain [TS]

00:17:57   America and if right now though we have [TS]

00:18:02   to promote this two months in advance [TS]

00:18:04   for three months in advance we have two [TS]

00:18:06   months in which i'm thinking does this [TS]

00:18:07   get me again does this get me circling a [TS]

00:18:09   date in my calendar that this is when [TS]

00:18:11   the new Thor comes out i really want to [TS]

00:18:13   check that out that does not get me [TS]

00:18:15   excited about it but the the key thing [TS]

00:18:18   is that's totally separate from how good [TS]

00:18:20   these stories are going to be I'm not [TS]

00:18:22   gonna make I don't think anybody can [TS]

00:18:23   make any assumptions about it even if [TS]

00:18:25   there are no matter how if anybody's [TS]

00:18:27   disappointed with these decisions you [TS]

00:18:28   have no idea how good this is going to [TS]

00:18:30   be right I was wrong my eyes at the [TS]

00:18:32   death of Spiderman but that was such a [TS]

00:18:34   wonderful exploration onto the basis of [TS]

00:18:38   the of hero hood and what drives people [TS]

00:18:40   to make the decisions that they make so [TS]

00:18:42   what might happen in a few months is [TS]

00:18:43   that again I will not be lined up to [TS]

00:18:45   ghosts by this new Thor but once i hear [TS]

00:18:47   other people talking about if they [TS]

00:18:49   described it in ways that really make an [TS]

00:18:51   interesting maybe we'll go and buy it [TS]

00:18:52   that's why i'm saying is a total brick [TS]

00:18:55   wall between an announcement that gets [TS]

00:18:57   you excited two months in advance about [TS]

00:18:58   buying this issue and how good this is [TS]

00:19:01   going to be when it actually comes out [TS]

00:19:02   so that's that might make that make [TS]

00:19:04   change that decision I I hear what [TS]

00:19:06   you're saying I I i would suggest that I [TS]

00:19:11   think that you might not be super aware [TS]

00:19:15   that the degree to which the [TS]

00:19:18   conversation about comics tends to be [TS]

00:19:21   led and dominated by you know white [TS]

00:19:25   straight men like that is kind of the [TS]

00:19:28   comics culture and like you're saying [TS]

00:19:31   this story may be good the story may be [TS]

00:19:33   good [TS]

00:19:34   um what I would suggest to you is that [TS]

00:19:36   there are different measuring sticks out [TS]

00:19:39   there for is this story good i would [TS]

00:19:42   suggest you that they're different [TS]

00:19:43   measuring sticks for does this get me [TS]

00:19:46   excited and what I would suggest to you [TS]

00:19:50   is I think that Marvel is looking as a [TS]

00:19:55   business at the current makeup of [TS]

00:19:57   America [TS]

00:19:58   the people that read comics i know so [TS]

00:20:01   many you know african-american friends [TS]

00:20:03   of mine they're very passionate about [TS]

00:20:04   comics i know so many women they're [TS]

00:20:07   passionate about comics and I think what [TS]

00:20:10   is happening is the industry is shifting [TS]

00:20:14   and it's growing the same way you see [TS]

00:20:16   video games growing right now and it is [TS]

00:20:19   addressing this need for diversity so [TS]

00:20:21   what I would suggest to you is if by [TS]

00:20:24   your measuring stick some of these moves [TS]

00:20:27   don't get you excited or they don't [TS]

00:20:29   appeal to you personally I i would [TS]

00:20:32   suggest that it's for different people [TS]

00:20:34   that like I completely agree with that [TS]

00:20:36   cool [TS]

00:20:37   so here's what i see is one of the [TS]

00:20:39   problems here and I i mentioned this [TS]

00:20:41   with with Star Trek which is well I [TS]

00:20:43   wonder core problems is the company like [TS]

00:20:45   Marvel or NGC is in the same boat is it [TS]

00:20:47   they are an intellectual property [TS]

00:20:49   holding company and these days they make [TS]

00:20:50   so much of their money so much of the [TS]

00:20:52   money and the value in these in these [TS]

00:20:53   companies is in the film business where [TS]

00:20:56   they've got these huge film franchise [TS]

00:20:58   and marvelous got a huge film franchise [TS]

00:20:59   DC's got the great run amok of Batman [TS]

00:21:02   movies that they made and is trying to [TS]

00:21:03   now create something a little more like [TS]

00:21:05   what Marvel has done a huge value there [TS]

00:21:08   we also live in a world where some of [TS]

00:21:10   the greatest comic book creative people [TS]

00:21:13   have realized that they would rather if [TS]

00:21:16   you're going to come up with some great [TS]

00:21:17   new intellectual property which is sadly [TS]

00:21:19   how a lot of stuff is viewed it's not a [TS]

00:21:22   great story it's great intellectual [TS]

00:21:23   property you they want to make the great [TS]

00:21:25   creators want to make that and owned it [TS]

00:21:27   themselves and so there is a lack of [TS]

00:21:30   great new characters and great new not [TS]

00:21:35   straight lines to create new characters [TS]

00:21:36   going into Marvel and DC because a lot [TS]

00:21:39   of that stuff is being done [TS]

00:21:40   independently so there's this challenge [TS]

00:21:43   with like I said with Star Trek I see it [TS]

00:21:45   even more so in Marvel and DC where the [TS]

00:21:47   cast that they've inherited their [TS]

00:21:49   intellectual property is largely male [TS]

00:21:53   and largely white because these are the [TS]

00:21:55   characters that were created you know 50 [TS]

00:21:58   60 40 years ago and I i think when you [TS]

00:22:02   look at Sam Wilson being captain america [TS]

00:22:05   and a woman being the wielding the [TS]

00:22:08   hammer of Thor what strikes me about [TS]

00:22:11   that as opposed [TS]

00:22:12   this is something like putting Carol [TS]

00:22:14   Danvers is Captain Marvel and and having [TS]

00:22:16   a new ms marvel is those seem to be [TS]

00:22:19   almost like recasting and that's why I [TS]

00:22:21   mentioned I've been calling the [TS]

00:22:22   recasting the idea of you know our our [TS]

00:22:25   intellectual property base isn't diverse [TS]

00:22:27   enough and we can't really think it's [TS]

00:22:29   hard for us to create new characters so [TS]

00:22:32   what we're gonna do is mix around with [TS]

00:22:35   the characters we've gotta it feels to [TS]

00:22:38   me like that's what's happening here is [TS]

00:22:39   that is that you know they would they [TS]

00:22:42   want to play with your intellectual [TS]

00:22:43   property and so while people get up in [TS]

00:22:44   arms about it's not the thor I know it's [TS]

00:22:46   not the cap I knew I feel like on one [TS]

00:22:48   level this is marvel [TS]

00:22:50   I mean it's bold of Marvel to say we're [TS]

00:22:52   gonna do this to our arc or intellectual [TS]

00:22:54   property but at the same time it's also [TS]

00:22:56   like this is what we've got to play with [TS]

00:22:57   we need to diversify our mainline not [TS]

00:23:00   just add these characters on the edges [TS]

00:23:01   that nobody's ever heard of [TS]

00:23:03   well even even there I mean there are [TS]

00:23:06   certain characters that are always going [TS]

00:23:07   to be those characters Clark Kent will [TS]

00:23:09   always be Superman Bruce Wayne has [TS]

00:23:12   basically always been Batman but then [TS]

00:23:15   you have like how many Green Lanterns [TS]

00:23:16   have been how many flashes have there [TS]

00:23:18   been no official for official flashes [TS]

00:23:21   plus some goofy future flashes right and [TS]

00:23:25   you know and and those are characters [TS]

00:23:28   that don't have the same kind of iconic [TS]

00:23:32   presence for people they know who the [TS]

00:23:35   Green Lantern maybe but they don't know [TS]

00:23:37   a name they don't attach a name to that [TS]

00:23:38   and so you you might have your house [TS]

00:23:41   Jordan fans you might have you may have [TS]

00:23:43   Kyle raider fans and you may have jon [TS]

00:23:45   stewart fans and at least you know [TS]

00:23:47   there's a little bit of diversity and in [TS]

00:23:49   DC right there Joe and so I kind of see [TS]

00:23:53   this is not that far from that [TS]

00:23:56   well I an idea that is very much like [TS]

00:23:59   the flash such flashing green lantern [TS]

00:24:01   situation [TS]

00:24:02   yeah which pretty much introduced the [TS]

00:24:05   Silver Age when they said we have these [TS]

00:24:08   characters we haven't used in forever [TS]

00:24:10   let's just keep the basic concept of the [TS]

00:24:14   hero introduced a whole new guy a whole [TS]

00:24:16   new origin story and I feel like they're [TS]

00:24:20   just doing that now [TS]

00:24:21   although because it's 2014 they're [TS]

00:24:24   allowing themselves to be a [TS]

00:24:25   little more original then here's a whole [TS]

00:24:27   new white guy that yeah yeah I think I [TS]

00:24:31   think that's a good point it's a it's [TS]

00:24:35   and I think the difference is that we in [TS]

00:24:37   the seventies what we saw was people [TS]

00:24:38   said hey you don't have a lot of you [TS]

00:24:41   have a lot of black superheroes and [TS]

00:24:42   they're like well okay we use the Black [TS]

00:24:44   Panther okay then here's what Adam [TS]

00:24:47   here's the Falcon and here's the beers [TS]

00:24:48   beers beers black lightning and it's [TS]

00:24:50   like yeah oh okay [TS]

00:24:51   it's something it's something right its [TS]

00:24:53   end and again i can make fun of it but [TS]

00:24:56   at the same time that was a legitimate [TS]

00:24:57   attempt to create diversity in a place [TS]

00:25:00   where there was none right but what also [TS]

00:25:02   happened in the seventies with the the [TS]

00:25:04   rise of the feminist movement was this [TS]

00:25:07   creation of of I don't know how to [TS]

00:25:11   phrase it like alternate female [TS]

00:25:14   counterpart heroes so the whole heart [TS]

00:25:17   but we made she-hulk and-and-and-and-and [TS]

00:25:20   you got that a lot where it was like [TS]

00:25:21   well it's not it's not that that Thor is [TS]

00:25:24   different but now there's a lady thore [TS]

00:25:26   over here on the side right and one of [TS]

00:25:28   the things about that was interesting [TS]

00:25:29   but marvels announcement about there was [TS]

00:25:30   this is not so [TS]

00:25:31   laurita this is not lady for this is [TS]

00:25:34   Thor and that says something to that [TS]

00:25:37   we're not just creating like a girl [TS]

00:25:39   counterpart to important character the [TS]

00:25:41   important characters a woman and that is [TS]

00:25:44   part of the story and that's that is [TS]

00:25:45   that's a step up i think that's really [TS]

00:25:47   interesting [TS]

00:25:48   yeah i agree with on if this might be [TS]

00:25:50   that this is a this is a semantic issue [TS]

00:25:52   the the really terrible nerd part of my [TS]

00:25:56   brain said but wait it's so you're not [TS]

00:25:58   making her the god the goddess of [TS]

00:26:00   thunder you're making her Thor that's [TS]

00:26:02   like saying you're not making this woman [TS]

00:26:05   president you're making her Barack Obama [TS]

00:26:07   i don't understand that [TS]

00:26:09   yeah I had I i think right now see the [TS]

00:26:11   story because i had made job major nerd [TS]

00:26:13   nerd moment there too because I was like [TS]

00:26:14   what do you mean beta ray bill was an [TS]

00:26:16   alien who got the hammer and and it'll [TS]

00:26:18   be interesting to see how they tell the [TS]

00:26:20   story but I you know I I I don't doubt [TS]

00:26:22   that there is a great desire at Marvel [TS]

00:26:24   and I I mean Brandon you mentioned i [TS]

00:26:26   think that i think is a business aspect [TS]

00:26:28   of this to which is like this is not [TS]

00:26:30   just we want to be nice [TS]

00:26:32   marvel's owned by disney this is there's [TS]

00:26:34   a huge amount of investment in this [TS]

00:26:35   intellectual property [TS]

00:26:36   this is also about we we need to move [TS]

00:26:38   with [TS]

00:26:38   at times and how do we do that and get [TS]

00:26:40   some publicity along the way but how do [TS]

00:26:42   we diversify this line in the new [TS]

00:26:44   Fantastic Four movie the human torch is [TS]

00:26:47   going to be played by the Michael B [TS]

00:26:50   Jordan is the name of the actor get the [TS]

00:26:51   kid from chronically at the kids from [TS]

00:26:53   the wire and and chronicle and friday [TS]

00:26:56   night lights and so that's a black kid [TS]

00:26:58   is gonna be playing the human torch and [TS]

00:27:00   that's an all-white cast and now it's [TS]

00:27:02   not and I think I think he's great and [TS]

00:27:04   so I'm really looking forward to that [TS]

00:27:06   so this is happening all over I I think [TS]

00:27:09   like you can look at Maleficent which by [TS]

00:27:12   all you know [TS]

00:27:14   by all reports was not a well removed [TS]

00:27:16   reviewed movie get it did very very well [TS]

00:27:19   at the box office and I know so many [TS]

00:27:22   women that want to go see a movie like [TS]

00:27:26   you know with injury Anjali featured and [TS]

00:27:29   you know so we geek women have money to [TS]

00:27:32   spend and i think it's it's addressing [TS]

00:27:34   the market need I want to come back to [TS]

00:27:36   something you said actually on Twitter [TS]

00:27:38   Jason where you're talking about how the [TS]

00:27:41   X universe kind of tended to do better [TS]

00:27:44   on this issue [TS]

00:27:45   um but if you look at the last x-men [TS]

00:27:49   movie I was so phenomenally disappointed [TS]

00:27:53   with it because who were the main [TS]

00:27:54   characters it was a ton of white guys [TS]

00:27:56   I'm you have Quicksilver magneto Xavier [TS]

00:27:59   having another love story together you [TS]

00:28:01   know we'll bring him like i am you know [TS]

00:28:04   yes mystique is kind of part of it but [TS]

00:28:06   she wasn't really as much of a main [TS]

00:28:09   character say Wolverine and it just [TS]

00:28:12   seems to me that even in a movie or even [TS]

00:28:15   a universe with that is diverse as the [TS]

00:28:18   x-men like here you have again for women [TS]

00:28:21   or fifty percent of the planet you know [TS]

00:28:23   and there's any number of really awesome [TS]

00:28:26   amazing female amazing characters in [TS]

00:28:29   that universe it's the forces of [TS]

00:28:31   Hollywood or whatever just kind of kill [TS]

00:28:34   that diversity also Cyclops is [TS]

00:28:36   definitively like the most boring [TS]

00:28:38   character on the show it anytime you use [TS]

00:28:41   Cyclops right I accuse you and and in [TS]

00:28:45   the story that they based the movie on [TS]

00:28:47   that inspired the movie so amazingly [TS]

00:28:50   right back in time can be probably the [TS]

00:28:51   main character that's [TS]

00:28:52   how did she get that betrayed and I [TS]

00:28:54   don't really talk about it's in the [TS]

00:28:55   future it's all explained later again [TS]

00:28:58   that's one of those kinda kind of things [TS]

00:29:00   this mutant things like so much about [TS]

00:29:03   the future seems they've established [TS]

00:29:05   portal girl really well and even though [TS]

00:29:07   she had maybe one line of dialogue she's [TS]

00:29:09   super fun and a personality and want to [TS]

00:29:12   know her more about her but yeah kitty [TS]

00:29:14   was great guys this year though [TS]

00:29:16   well I mean they were like what we could [TS]

00:29:17   make it Wolverine because everybody [TS]

00:29:19   loves Wolverine and who cares about [TS]

00:29:20   native pride you know back in 1985 there [TS]

00:29:23   would have been strong arguments about [TS]

00:29:25   kitty pryde vs wolverine let me tell you [TS]

00:29:26   i get there their rationale that well we [TS]

00:29:29   want to tie the movie existences [TS]

00:29:32   together and so she the age wouldn't [TS]

00:29:34   work at all but you know there are other [TS]

00:29:37   women fine rhymes another week at [TS]

00:29:40   doesn't have to be Hugh Jackman this is [TS]

00:29:41   all because I screwed up in the first [TS]

00:29:43   movie and took Kitty Pryde's personality [TS]

00:29:45   and put it in Rouen Road yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:29:48   yeah [TS]

00:29:49   after a brief break for our sponsor now [TS]

00:29:51   in this episode you've been listening to [TS]

00:29:53   one of my panelists Brianna Wu whose new [TS]

00:29:57   game from her company giant space cat is [TS]

00:30:00   coming out this week it's called [TS]

00:30:01   revolution 60 and it seems appropriate [TS]

00:30:05   that perhaps it's time for her and her [TS]

00:30:09   company to be uncomfortable sponsor [TS]

00:30:13   look up look down look out [TS]

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00:30:26   a team of deadly female secret agents [TS]

00:30:29   must rendezvous with n 313 an orbital [TS]

00:30:33   weapons platform adrift over China if [TS]

00:30:36   they fail their mission [TS]

00:30:38   it will be an all-out nuclear war [TS]

00:30:40   evolution 60 danger sign for the world's [TS]

00:30:46   most deadly secret agent who will you [TS]

00:30:49   trust and he will kill [TS]

00:30:54   no one can stop the action no one can [TS]

00:30:58   stop the danger [TS]

00:30:59   no one can stop revolution 60 [TS]

00:31:04   available now on iOS and thanks to giant [TS]

00:31:10   space cat for sponsoring the [TS]

00:31:12   uncomfortable I i want to mention [TS]

00:31:14   another recasting that that is not quite [TS]

00:31:16   the same but when and when they [TS]

00:31:20   announced that they were going to kill [TS]

00:31:21   Peter Parker in ultimate spider-man that [TS]

00:31:24   which is which is really my favorite [TS]

00:31:25   comic of the last 15 years i think his [TS]

00:31:27   ultimate spider-man i was i was upset [TS]

00:31:29   because again there's that event fatigue [TS]

00:31:32   thing and and this is what I keep trying [TS]

00:31:34   two separate here is there's my vent [TS]

00:31:36   fatigue of your gonna do something [TS]

00:31:37   called death of Spiderman is going to be [TS]

00:31:39   a cheat or are you gonna kill Peter [TS]

00:31:40   Parker and why would you kill Peter [TS]

00:31:41   Parker he's been your protagonist 420 [TS]

00:31:44   issues and it's very sad at but you know [TS]

00:31:46   what what happened is they had an idea [TS]

00:31:49   for a great story and they were already [TS]

00:31:51   telling Peter Parker story in two [TS]

00:31:53   different places for a great story about [TS]

00:31:55   a new kid with a slightly different [TS]

00:31:58   history but who would have liked Peter [TS]

00:32:01   Parker this power thrust upon him with [TS]

00:32:04   one twist which is that now he has Peter [TS]

00:32:07   Parker to live up to and that's Miles [TS]

00:32:10   Morales whose dad is black and moms [TS]

00:32:13   Puerto Rican and so not only injecting [TS]

00:32:16   amazing diversity into the spider-man [TS]

00:32:18   costume which had been sacrosanct [TS]

00:32:20   essentially the peter parker was [TS]

00:32:22   spider-man there was no like other Green [TS]

00:32:25   Lantern the flash or anything right it [TS]

00:32:27   was Peter Parker experiment letting [TS]

00:32:28   forgot about the Clone Saga well but [TS]

00:32:31   that's all Peter Parker to all right [TS]

00:32:33   there are sins all right but this is [TS]

00:32:35   just like your another kid got bit by a [TS]

00:32:36   spider and that's miles morales and you [TS]

00:32:38   know what that's a great [TS]

00:32:39   those are great stories that spun out of [TS]

00:32:41   there in hindsight looking at that and [TS]

00:32:43   that's a great character to the point [TS]

00:32:45   where now when they killed the Peter [TS]

00:32:46   Parker off temporarily in the main [TS]

00:32:48   Marvel line i just kind of drug because [TS]

00:32:50   it's like and it's finally miles is good [TS]

00:32:52   because we got plenty more where that [TS]

00:32:54   came from yeah but that was that's an [TS]

00:32:55   example where where are you know there's [TS]

00:32:57   there's i don't i don't think now any [TS]

00:33:01   differently about the fact that you know [TS]

00:33:03   this fantastic spider-man is an [TS]

00:33:07   african-american Puerto Rican kid in New [TS]

00:33:09   York City I think that's perfectly [TS]

00:33:11   reasonable and then there's that other [TS]

00:33:12   thought which is what about all the [TS]

00:33:14   african-american kids and the porter he [TS]

00:33:16   could kids who read comics who now see [TS]

00:33:17   some [TS]

00:33:18   but he was kinda like them in miles [TS]

00:33:20   that's amazing too [TS]

00:33:21   I think there's a need to like shake up [TS]

00:33:23   the Marvel Universe to a certain extent [TS]

00:33:25   to my read recently how they're killing [TS]

00:33:27   Wolverine and it kind of it kind of [TS]

00:33:29   stunt me for a minute [TS]

00:33:31   you know like wolverine someone that [TS]

00:33:32   probably makes a lot of money for Marvel [TS]

00:33:34   or you know they recently killed [TS]

00:33:36   professor xavier again but I night I get [TS]

00:33:40   ya if you get the feeling this time it's [TS]

00:33:42   more permanent um as permanent as again [TS]

00:33:44   communist government always recycle some [TS]

00:33:46   takeout right yeah but like literally [TS]

00:33:48   like with Superman the idea that we're [TS]

00:33:49   gonna go we're gonna tell a story that [TS]

00:33:51   and Paul Cornell has been reading a lot [TS]

00:33:52   of that arc so it's been known to eat [TS]

00:33:54   two years in the making it's like [TS]

00:33:55   killing will rain is telling an [TS]

00:33:56   interesting story about wolverine and [TS]

00:33:58   then and then having them you know the [TS]

00:33:59   guts to to do that to really profitable [TS]

00:34:02   character right even-tempered like [TS]

00:34:05   remember when they killed Eugene gray [TS]

00:34:08   and I didn't think they're really going [TS]

00:34:10   to leave her dead and they did and you [TS]

00:34:13   know watching Cyclops fall in love with [TS]

00:34:15   Emma Frost has been a really cool [TS]

00:34:17   interesting storyline i don't know if [TS]

00:34:19   you guys read all new x-men but i love [TS]

00:34:21   it it's currently my favorite let's Bend [TS]

00:34:23   this again it's nothing yet why it [TS]

00:34:26   yeah yeah um I just think that shaking [TS]

00:34:29   up the universe it in a longer way like [TS]

00:34:33   with new characters are putting a new [TS]

00:34:35   twist on it I think it gives I think [TS]

00:34:37   it's painful when it happens but i think [TS]

00:34:39   it gives long-term vitality to the [TS]

00:34:41   universe I think that's the healthiest [TS]

00:34:43   way to view comic books too because [TS]

00:34:45   there's the strict comic-book [TS]

00:34:46   constructionist guy right [TS]

00:34:48   uh-uh which is like well you know the [TS]

00:34:51   continuity says that this is not a right [TS]

00:34:53   there's that argument which is the comic [TS]

00:34:54   book I argument but uh and I've made [TS]

00:34:57   that and felt that and I totally get [TS]

00:34:59   that like but no you said in this other [TS]

00:35:01   issue when they were footnotes and [TS]

00:35:02   that's what it's like [TS]

00:35:03   right but but the other way to view it [TS]

00:35:06   is is exactly this which is it's a [TS]

00:35:07   playground the continuity is always [TS]

00:35:09   shifting and if you can tell I and I [TS]

00:35:12   know I've said this to you before if you [TS]

00:35:15   can tell a good story i kinda don't care [TS]

00:35:18   about the rest of it i don't i kinda [TS]

00:35:19   don't care what you do if the stories [TS]

00:35:22   are good and then what we've been [TS]

00:35:23   talking about today it also allows you [TS]

00:35:25   to tell stories that are a little bit [TS]

00:35:27   different because your cast is not just [TS]

00:35:29   a bunch of white guys then [TS]

00:35:31   and that's good too and in the end [TS]

00:35:33   that's that's what matters so I love it [TS]

00:35:35   even though we all know Wolverine is not [TS]

00:35:37   going to stay dead like Superman didn't [TS]

00:35:39   stay dead like Peter Parker didn't stay [TS]

00:35:41   dead in their defense not ultimate Peter [TS]

00:35:43   Parker stay dead for over a year [TS]

00:35:45   yes which was way longer than what the [TS]

00:35:47   fuck instead and this is my long-winded [TS]

00:35:49   point which is which is we can roll her [TS]

00:35:51   eyes and say of course they're not going [TS]

00:35:52   to stay dead but being dead for a year [TS]

00:35:54   being dead for two years in comic-book [TS]

00:35:56   terms and telling stories for a couple [TS]

00:35:58   years like Superman what's the world [TS]

00:35:59   like without Superman that doesn't make [TS]

00:36:02   that any less valid just because we know [TS]

00:36:04   they're going to eventually come back [TS]

00:36:05   because the point is can you tell [TS]

00:36:07   interesting stories while they're gone [TS]

00:36:08   right i mean the only x-men thing we're [TS]

00:36:11   bringing the old x-men to the present [TS]

00:36:12   day you know at some point they'll end [TS]

00:36:15   that up but it's it's a i'm enjoying [TS]

00:36:17   those stories because it's called a [TS]

00:36:19   crazy idea and it's fascinating to see [TS]

00:36:21   those characters playing in the current [TS]

00:36:23   set of characters that's that's cool [TS]

00:36:25   right right [TS]

00:36:27   it's also important to note that would [TS]

00:36:29   be if you could if you pinpoint whatever [TS]

00:36:31   year it was you started reading comics [TS]

00:36:33   and then pinpoint the year after that [TS]

00:36:35   you decided that continuity is being [TS]

00:36:37   messed up they don't appreciate [TS]

00:36:38   continuity ok we'll find let's roll back [TS]

00:36:40   to 1996-97 when you fell in love with a [TS]

00:36:44   fantastic for what if we realize that [TS]

00:36:47   while the things you love about the [TS]

00:36:49   Fantastic Four 1987 happen because they [TS]

00:36:51   ignored lots of stuff that happened in [TS]

00:36:53   the seventies they decided well let's [TS]

00:36:54   pretend that Franklin Richards does not [TS]

00:36:56   have these powers so it's so you have to [TS]

00:36:59   have to if you you have to accept that a [TS]

00:37:02   lot of what you love about these [TS]

00:37:03   comments comes because of that ignorance [TS]

00:37:05   the only thing that I would defend some [TS]

00:37:08   part of the family argument though is [TS]

00:37:10   that it's disappointing when DC and [TS]

00:37:12   Marvel will make these Titanic they [TS]

00:37:15   think they pride themselves all we don't [TS]

00:37:17   we don't we like to kick over and hills [TS]

00:37:19   the problem is that eventually you wind [TS]

00:37:21   up with a flat landscape that's very [TS]

00:37:23   very boring i was i was disappointed [TS]

00:37:25   like with civil civil war that we're [TS]

00:37:28   making this huge huge sweeping changes [TS]

00:37:30   in our head next year we're having a [TS]

00:37:31   huge alien invasion everybody realizes [TS]

00:37:34   that ever aliens invaded 20 years ago [TS]

00:37:36   and they already took over a year later [TS]

00:37:38   nobody's commenting about that nobody [TS]

00:37:40   cares what i would love to I would [TS]

00:37:42   really love to see that kind of like [TS]

00:37:44   comic books [TS]

00:37:45   universe no I'm saying for that no I'm [TS]

00:37:47   saying they they they are there they're [TS]

00:37:49   not swinging at the pitch [TS]

00:37:51   what if they simply said that yes look [TS]

00:37:52   every person on this planet realizes [TS]

00:37:54   that alien successfully invaded this [TS]

00:37:57   planet and only by the skin of our teeth [TS]

00:37:59   that we managed to get them to go back [TS]

00:38:01   where they came from and got our planet [TS]

00:38:03   back five years after that every story [TS]

00:38:06   has to be colored through a populist [TS]

00:38:08   that is now terrified of another alien [TS]

00:38:10   invasion and now has a totally different [TS]

00:38:12   idea of us versus them instead it's like [TS]

00:38:14   okay whatever boy remember the time last [TS]

00:38:17   summer when everybody in New York was a [TS]

00:38:19   spider [TS]

00:38:20   wow what was that about anyway about her [TS]

00:38:22   dad for like AI thought I feel like this [TS]

00:38:25   is something I've learned to live with [TS]

00:38:27   Gannicus like I remember being 15 and [TS]

00:38:30   reading was at the executioner song with [TS]

00:38:32   x-men and like going out to my comic [TS]

00:38:35   book store every week trying to hunt [TS]

00:38:37   down every issue of it and ultimately [TS]

00:38:40   coming to the conclusion wasn't really [TS]

00:38:42   going to have changes and I i guess i'm [TS]

00:38:45   always speaking for me here but the the [TS]

00:38:47   piece I've made with it is you have [TS]

00:38:50   someone that's just trying to tell a [TS]

00:38:51   good story and maybe like I know I just [TS]

00:38:56   try to appreciate the arc of the story [TS]

00:38:58   line on its own merits and I I don't [TS]

00:39:00   need to shake up the the universe every [TS]

00:39:02   time it's especially as an adult where I [TS]

00:39:06   tend to get by graphic novels and just [TS]

00:39:09   read chunks of a story at once rather [TS]

00:39:11   than that [TS]

00:39:11   getting into the entire whole you know [TS]

00:39:13   the only thing that gives me pause about [TS]

00:39:15   this right now is all of the oh we're [TS]

00:39:21   we're really going to do it and we're [TS]

00:39:22   really going to keep it and we're not [TS]

00:39:24   going to change at this time and and [TS]

00:39:26   we're gonna we're going to make Thor [TS]

00:39:27   woman and that's that and it's sort of [TS]

00:39:29   like me think the editor does protest [TS]

00:39:31   too much [TS]

00:39:32   you know it's like we know stuffs gonna [TS]

00:39:34   change and you're going to change it [TS]

00:39:35   back you're gonna do something different [TS]

00:39:37   justjust say look we're doing this thing [TS]

00:39:40   see what happens yeah it might be a good [TS]

00:39:42   story we hope it's good story we think [TS]

00:39:44   it's good and you know give it a chance [TS]

00:39:47   and and if it works you know then maybe [TS]

00:39:49   they keep it [TS]

00:39:50   maybe they do more with it there's some [TS]

00:39:51   Comic Book cultural baggage which goes [TS]

00:39:53   back to I add my memory of DC how they [TS]

00:39:55   would always say [TS]

00:39:56   they would have their stories that [TS]

00:39:58   didn't fit in continuity and they would [TS]

00:39:59   say this is an imaginary story and the [TS]

00:40:01   guys all of their stories are imagine [TS]

00:40:04   don't take it so seriously that's [TS]

00:40:08   something i love DC vs marvel because it [TS]

00:40:11   seemed as though DC have this attitude [TS]

00:40:12   of look where we under we know that you [TS]

00:40:15   know this is just a comic book if we [TS]

00:40:18   came up with its own pictures a really [TS]

00:40:19   great idea of Batman during Victorian [TS]

00:40:22   times that a fighting Dracula we decided [TS]

00:40:25   wow that's such a good story we really [TS]

00:40:27   have to publish this and we understand [TS]

00:40:29   you're not going to try to stick us to [TS]

00:40:31   where did Batman how did Batman get into [TS]

00:40:33   Victorian times that's great the the [TS]

00:40:35   explanation look it's just a comic book [TS]

00:40:37   we can screw around as much as we want [TS]

00:40:39   I think it's something that it's not [TS]

00:40:39   used enough well-marbled did that to [TS]

00:40:42   that was the whole what if series [TS]

00:40:44   yeah I just met with ran out of ideas [TS]

00:40:46   except except every last page maybe the [TS]

00:40:48   earth blew up and I don't watch it but [TS]

00:40:50   yeah good things didn't happen like that [TS]

00:40:53   huh KITT so the imaginary story thing [TS]

00:40:55   what got me about it is that what they [TS]

00:40:57   were suggesting is that then there was [TS]

00:40:58   the real stories which were the DC [TS]

00:41:00   continuity is like guys it's all [TS]

00:41:01   imaginary it and all the white again I [TS]

00:41:04   understand the comic book fans tendency [TS]

00:41:06   to be like I want to catalog and I want [TS]

00:41:07   to look at the continuity but this [TS]

00:41:08   happened back then there is that maybe [TS]

00:41:10   it's at as I've gotten older and have a [TS]

00:41:12   lot of comics and I kind of like my care [TS]

00:41:14   more about the stories and and i love [TS]

00:41:16   the continuity and all but I just don't [TS]

00:41:17   I don't I don't sweat it and I i think [TS]

00:41:19   that I think that helps it isn't that an [TS]

00:41:21   alan moore line from one of his [TS]

00:41:24   Superman's I think whatever happened to [TS]

00:41:26   the man of tomorrow [TS]

00:41:27   that's an imaginary story money you all [TS]

00:41:30   know i think that one starts off with a [TS]

00:41:31   caption saying this is an imaginary yeah [TS]

00:41:33   we realized that was all that was in [TS]

00:41:34   that we aren't they all right [TS]

00:41:36   yeah exactly i want to mention a couple [TS]

00:41:38   we talk about diversity and comics and [TS]

00:41:39   recasting characters and you mentioned [TS]

00:41:41   like the flashes in the Green Lantern's [TS]

00:41:42   I'm i want to mention too that are [TS]

00:41:44   particular favorite of mine or wanted [TS]

00:41:47   that one that's a favorite one that I'm [TS]

00:41:48   intrigued by DC made a new Blue Beetle a [TS]

00:41:52   few years ago and i like that for a few [TS]

00:41:54   reasons i like it because it's [TS]

00:41:56   geographically diverse it was sent in [TS]

00:41:58   san antonio texas [TS]

00:41:59   oh yeah i was at grandmas and the blue [TS]

00:42:01   beetle is high mayre s so hispanic [TS]

00:42:04   american teenager in San Antonio who [TS]

00:42:08   gets this suit and doesn't know what to [TS]

00:42:09   do with it [TS]

00:42:10   it's got all the things i love about [TS]

00:42:11   something like ultimate spider-man it's [TS]

00:42:13   a kid who gets way too much power and [TS]

00:42:14   has to learn how to use it with a little [TS]

00:42:16   greatest american hero thrown in like I [TS]

00:42:19   don't have the big worry did get they [TS]

00:42:21   didn't go to the instructions exactly so [TS]

00:42:23   that that's one that's a good example [TS]

00:42:25   and that's the case of DC taking some [TS]

00:42:27   dormant intellectual property and [TS]

00:42:29   spinning out a new character a new story [TS]

00:42:31   that is not a white man in New York City [TS]

00:42:33   and then i want to mention Marvel what [TS]

00:42:35   Marvel's doing with ghost rider which is [TS]

00:42:37   fascinating which is Ghost Rider is now [TS]

00:42:40   a Hispanic American as well and is it [TS]

00:42:43   and he's got a he's got a ghost car i've [TS]

00:42:45   only read the first couple issues but [TS]

00:42:47   it's really that's awesome it's like a [TS]

00:42:49   lowrider kind of ghost rider is it is [TS]

00:42:52   actually sounds good i think that was [TS]

00:42:54   liberated the first couple issues are [TS]

00:42:55   really great and and it is a it is let's [TS]

00:42:59   do something with again it's a known [TS]

00:43:00   character who's had a bunch of different [TS]

00:43:02   there was like the original ghost rider [TS]

00:43:04   was a cowboy on a horse and then there's [TS]

00:43:05   the famous jhonni blaze [TS]

00:43:07   nicholas Nicholas hey version on the [TS]

00:43:11   motorcycle accidents move that and get [TS]

00:43:14   ghostwriting transform you heard it here [TS]

00:43:16   first but that movies fun they make some [TS]

00:43:18   really neat choices in that movie but [TS]

00:43:20   but i really like okay this idea that [TS]

00:43:23   now there's another Reyes to its robbie [TS]

00:43:26   reyes and he's got a car and he's an [TS]

00:43:28   east LA and but it's still you know [TS]

00:43:30   demon and fire and all of that and it's [TS]

00:43:33   just like you know that's a fun spin and [TS]

00:43:35   i love that like a writer's got a good [TS]

00:43:37   idea and and like I said about this kind [TS]

00:43:39   of brain drain of of indy creators not [TS]

00:43:42   wanting to bring new intellectual [TS]

00:43:43   property to Marvel and DC well this is [TS]

00:43:46   something that very clever people still [TS]

00:43:48   want to do which is play with the [TS]

00:43:49   characters that they that they know and [TS]

00:43:52   like and that belong to Marvel and DC so [TS]

00:43:54   I love to see that kind of stuff playing [TS]

00:43:56   around with these characters like Blue [TS]

00:43:58   Beetle ghostwriter [TS]

00:43:59   yeah I i have a question for you guys so [TS]

00:44:01   if you think about like my frame of [TS]

00:44:04   references you know I was a teenager in [TS]

00:44:06   the nineties so you want the things is [TS]

00:44:09   it it seems like nerds have won [TS]

00:44:11   everything since then you know like you [TS]

00:44:14   couldn't really work in tech or be [TS]

00:44:16   interested in tact back then and now [TS]

00:44:18   it's completely mainstream everybody [TS]

00:44:20   loves it back then not everybody read [TS]

00:44:22   comic books and now everyone loves comic [TS]

00:44:25   books and I guess my question I would [TS]

00:44:28   ask you guys is it seems to me that a [TS]

00:44:31   cost of nerds having kind of one [TS]

00:44:35   everything is your got to share your [TS]

00:44:38   toys now to a certain extent you know [TS]

00:44:41   like now the audience for comic book [TS]

00:44:43   movies isn't you know a bunch of white [TS]

00:44:46   guys it's women it's african-americans [TS]

00:44:49   Latinos and you know especially is here [TS]

00:44:51   in the United States is becoming more [TS]

00:44:53   and more diverse I mean are you guys [TS]

00:44:55   going to be okay with you know the [TS]

00:44:58   heroes that we see reflecting that a [TS]

00:45:00   little more as for me i'm going to start [TS]

00:45:02   reading comics from the forties and just [TS]

00:45:04   going to go back to the 43 battle where [TS]

00:45:06   they're just sitting there you are going [TS]

00:45:08   to be amazed at Wonder Woman my fortress [TS]

00:45:11   yeah yeah i'm going to say you know [TS]

00:45:13   speaking of characters who are [TS]

00:45:17   surprisingly diverse 11 of the [TS]

00:45:20   characters I've loved in the last few [TS]

00:45:22   years is Renee Montoya who was created [TS]

00:45:25   for batman the animated series became [TS]

00:45:28   part of the comic book continuity and [TS]

00:45:30   then after Gotham Central and the 52 [TS]

00:45:33   became the question and and here is a [TS]

00:45:37   Hispanic lesbian woman as a masked hero [TS]

00:45:42   yeah and she's still going as far as i [TS]

00:45:45   know and i'll throw in Miguel O'Hara the [TS]

00:45:48   spider-man 2099 which they recently [TS]

00:45:49   brought back and give him his own series [TS]

00:45:51   which unfortunately is very good but [TS]

00:45:53   it's another example is the Irish [TS]

00:45:55   Hispanic from the guy spider man from [TS]

00:45:58   the future so I I mean to Brianna answer [TS]

00:46:01   your question for me it's like it [TS]

00:46:02   doesn't bother me because like i said i [TS]

00:46:04   really love Jaime Reyes says the Blue [TS]

00:46:06   Beetle I thought that was really great [TS]

00:46:07   also by the way and it's not just that [TS]

00:46:09   character but that that its not New York [TS]

00:46:11   City I thought that when they brought [TS]

00:46:12   scarlet spider spider was set in Houston [TS]

00:46:15   and they did about 20 issues there and [TS]

00:46:16   it was just like and I I think they're [TS]

00:46:18   moving we're moving to San Francisco oh [TS]

00:46:20   they're moving iron man two San [TS]

00:46:21   Francisco like they move the x-men a few [TS]

00:46:22   years ago was like that's great not [TS]

00:46:24   because I you know I live near San [TS]

00:46:26   Francisco but because like it's nice to [TS]

00:46:27   get get tell some stories that aren't in [TS]

00:46:29   New York City it's almost always have [TS]

00:46:32   diversity with the x-men the Avengers [TS]

00:46:34   Fantastic Four [TS]

00:46:36   Power Man Iron Fist and Doctor Strange [TS]

00:46:38   all living things by water away from [TS]

00:46:41   each other [TS]

00:46:42   stop attacking this city it's like [TS]

00:46:44   Greenwich Village you know it's just all [TS]

00:46:46   superheroes and not know now that not [TS]

00:46:48   all the artists live within like [TS]

00:46:50   somebody hire your downtown yard and [TS]

00:46:52   well actually I'm kind of familiar with [TS]

00:46:54   san francisco so i could draw a study [TS]

00:46:56   that its not New York oh wait that's [TS]

00:46:57   actually brought in [TS]

00:46:58   I'd like to mention what i think is one [TS]

00:47:01   of the most successful diversity [TS]

00:47:02   castings that there's kind of two kinds [TS]

00:47:06   of character recasting is there's the [TS]

00:47:09   kind we normally talk about where a new [TS]

00:47:11   character is going to be this hero like [TS]

00:47:14   this people [TS]

00:47:16   Spiderman was Peter Parker but now Miles [TS]

00:47:19   Morales is putting on the costume but [TS]

00:47:22   there's the other kind where they just [TS]

00:47:23   take a character and now this character [TS]

00:47:27   has a different background they usually [TS]

00:47:29   can't do that in regular continuity have [TS]

00:47:32   to wait for a reboot but when the [TS]

00:47:35   ultimates series started they made nick [TS]

00:47:38   fury black right and it went great and [TS]

00:47:42   for once [TS]

00:47:43   nobody complained about it well because [TS]

00:47:46   I'm sure at the time somebody complained [TS]

00:47:49   yeah yeah no I I definitely complained [TS]

00:47:52   about it but not to but not because the [TS]

00:47:53   character was made black but because the [TS]

00:47:55   character is made in 2 samuel l jackson [TS]

00:47:57   which I which I thought was incredibly [TS]

00:48:00   lazy on the part of the artists to say [TS]

00:48:02   that will instead of creating and [TS]

00:48:04   creating a black man that we think that [TS]

00:48:08   will what will be cast appropriately for [TS]

00:48:10   this we're going to take someone that [TS]

00:48:11   everybody already knows and already [TS]

00:48:13   associated with being a real badass and [TS]

00:48:16   therefore that will be a shortcut for me [TS]

00:48:17   as an artist I don't have to develop [TS]

00:48:18   this brand-new and as it turned out I is [TS]

00:48:21   all very act around now because that now [TS]

00:48:24   then they cast him as nick fury and now [TS]

00:48:26   it's like okay it's ya boy at the time [TS]

00:48:29   at the time it was let's draw this [TS]

00:48:30   character like an actor because it's [TS]

00:48:32   shorthand for what this character is [TS]

00:48:33   going to be it's totally true [TS]

00:48:34   lazy lazy lazy but I think in try as [TS]

00:48:37   someone who draws for a living like I [TS]

00:48:39   had to want to create 3d models i have [TS]

00:48:41   to do create mathematical orthographic [TS]

00:48:44   sketches and I've never seen that is [TS]

00:48:46   laziness I've always liked a match [TS]

00:48:49   and in my mind that when they cast [TS]

00:48:51   someone for a Marvel movie they make [TS]

00:48:53   them come in and they take different [TS]

00:48:55   pictures of them from different [TS]

00:48:56   direction so they have reference [TS]

00:48:58   materials so the character looks [TS]

00:49:01   consistent so that's always been my take [TS]

00:49:04   on that I don't think there's a cynical [TS]

00:49:05   laziness about it what happened what [TS]

00:49:08   happened it looks exactly like Sam yeah [TS]

00:49:10   and it this predates the movies i'll buy [TS]

00:49:12   a long time they actually literally said [TS]

00:49:15   hey wouldn't it be cool if Samuel [TS]

00:49:16   Jackson was our new nick fury somebody [TS]

00:49:19   give him a call and see if he's okay [TS]

00:49:20   with it and then they drew it to look [TS]

00:49:21   like him and then what happens is like [TS]

00:49:23   five years later ten years later the [TS]

00:49:25   calyx a standard Ricky yeah so okay yeah [TS]

00:49:29   that's rapidly able yeah seems okay and [TS]

00:49:32   then and then of course what they did is [TS]

00:49:33   that was so successful that in the [TS]

00:49:35   mainstream Marvel university basically [TS]

00:49:37   introduced Nick Furies son [TS]

00:49:39   whoo-hoo he had with with an [TS]

00:49:41   african-american woman who's a black [TS]

00:49:43   Nick Fury and then said he's Nick Fury [TS]

00:49:45   jr. but will call him Nick Fury and then [TS]

00:49:48   the old Nick three disappeared and it [TS]

00:49:50   was like let's just say that this is [TS]

00:49:52   nick fury ok because this is another one [TS]

00:49:55   of those things are I i wish that if I [TS]

00:49:57   will get the editors just had a little [TS]

00:49:58   bit had the guts to simply say [TS]

00:50:00   occasionally they'll be the first page [TS]

00:50:02   of comically just a little memo from the [TS]

00:50:04   editors that saying yeah you know and I [TS]

00:50:06   know why we have what we decided to do [TS]

00:50:08   this it's all it's all for the good but [TS]

00:50:09   we're not going to pretend that there's [TS]

00:50:11   a whole story reason why we decided to [TS]

00:50:13   introduce this character but no it's [TS]

00:50:15   like hey Nick asterisk and at the bottom [TS]

00:50:17   it says nick is black now [TS]

00:50:19   ok I'm not Brandon Allen show along with [TS]

00:50:22   years ago George Burns came out and said [TS]

00:50:24   the guy who was playing our neighbor [TS]

00:50:26   isn't with us anymore [TS]

00:50:27   here's the new actor he's our neighbor [TS]

00:50:29   now and they just got on with ya [TS]

00:50:32   yep and but what I think is interesting [TS]

00:50:34   about the Nick Fury situation is there [TS]

00:50:36   are people out there complaining that [TS]

00:50:37   johnny storm is going to be a black [TS]

00:50:39   character or that heindall was a black [TS]

00:50:41   character and Thor right speaking of why [TS]

00:50:44   they don't seem to have noticed another [TS]

00:50:47   character mysteriously turning black on [TS]

00:50:50   the way to the movies [TS]

00:50:51   that's all I wanted to say that that [TS]

00:50:53   actually does to me that invented that [TS]

00:50:55   addresses the question I think I don't [TS]

00:50:58   know if I've an opinion on whether [TS]

00:51:00   sharing the [TS]

00:51:01   that comics becoming more mainstream [TS]

00:51:03   involves sharing a comic books with [TS]

00:51:06   people who are not by dudes I think it's [TS]

00:51:09   to me i think the larger the louder [TS]

00:51:11   voices that now we're sharing the comic [TS]

00:51:13   universe with people who are expecting [TS]

00:51:15   comic books to be more like movies and [TS]

00:51:18   more like TV shows and are not they [TS]

00:51:21   didn't grow up with the idea that ok [TS]

00:51:22   you're going to be following the story [TS]

00:51:23   for a year and a half and there's going [TS]

00:51:25   to be at least two or three years worth [TS]

00:51:27   of useful backstory behind it that [TS]

00:51:29   you're gonna have to sort of track [TS]

00:51:30   alongside I think that that's the bigger [TS]

00:51:33   influence now than the than anything [TS]

00:51:36   else but it's that bad [TS]

00:51:38   oh no well you know i would i would say [TS]

00:51:41   so because anything that anything that [TS]

00:51:45   brings and anything that makes a comic [TS]

00:51:47   book that people enjoy [TS]

00:51:49   that's a great thing and if it makes a [TS]

00:51:52   hundred people enjoy this issue that's [TS]

00:51:55   that would not have enjoyed it before [TS]

00:51:58   that's a positive thing even if along [TS]

00:51:59   the way you choose off two or three [TS]

00:52:01   people who had buying that comic for [TS]

00:52:03   about two or three years it's all about [TS]

00:52:05   it and I think it's a kinetic there's a [TS]

00:52:07   continuity of people coming in and [TS]

00:52:09   people leaving if-if-if Marvel's [TS]

00:52:11   business plan is that we're gonna hook [TS]

00:52:13   somebody dates 13 and when that person [TS]

00:52:15   is 45 we're going to make sure that [TS]

00:52:17   we're still making that one person happy [TS]

00:52:19   that's a good way to eventually have an [TS]

00:52:21   audience of 80 people i I'm very very [TS]

00:52:24   glad that they're even when the guy keep [TS]

00:52:26   coming in and out of certain marvel [TS]

00:52:27   comics i did have to stop reading [TS]

00:52:29   Fantastic Four i actually had to make it [TS]

00:52:32   a new mission rules saying no under no [TS]

00:52:33   circumstances Andy are you allowed to [TS]

00:52:35   buy another fantastic for comic because [TS]

00:52:37   every time you buy one now it you just [TS]

00:52:39   are never never pleased with it [TS]

00:52:41   I'm I i wish i could still read that [TS]

00:52:45   book because i've been reading it since [TS]

00:52:47   I was a teenager but i have to [TS]

00:52:49   acknowledge that if this makes if the [TS]

00:52:51   changes that they've done to this book [TS]

00:52:53   make it more approachable more readable [TS]

00:52:54   and more importantly more relevant to a [TS]

00:52:57   2014 audience i got absolutely no [TS]

00:52:59   complaints i got 20 years of real of a [TS]

00:53:01   lot of fun on this book it's it's so [TS]

00:53:03   selfish of me to expect a comment to [TS]

00:53:05   stay the way that I like it or only to [TS]

00:53:07   introduce change that I approve of [TS]

00:53:09   I have fun i feel like it's a long time [TS]

00:53:12   comic book creator that kind of add them [TS]

00:53:14   flow is [TS]

00:53:15   as is just part of being a comic book [TS]

00:53:17   creator i love x-23 i love female [TS]

00:53:21   Wolverine she's one of my favorite [TS]

00:53:22   characters in the entire x-men universe [TS]

00:53:24   but you know her one shots series there [TS]

00:53:27   was a certain point with that where i'm [TS]

00:53:29   like i just can't read this it's so [TS]

00:53:31   terrible we've all had moments like that [TS]

00:53:33   and I don't know I feel like it's just [TS]

00:53:36   that Evan flow of it that you you have [TS]

00:53:39   books that you like and they make [TS]

00:53:40   changes or no more frequently they don't [TS]

00:53:43   lose the really awesome artist and the [TS]

00:53:45   quality of it takes a dive and Adela [TS]

00:53:48   didn't look at other books and you learn [TS]

00:53:50   different stories i think that's I think [TS]

00:53:52   that's the fun of being a comic book [TS]

00:53:54   reader is is never knowing when you go [TS]

00:53:56   to the store like what [TS]

00:53:58   awesome new series they're going to come [TS]

00:54:00   up with i think it's fine you know I [TS]

00:54:03   think a lot of reaction and I there two [TS]

00:54:05   reactions happening here i think it and [TS]

00:54:06   when definitely one reaction is from [TS]

00:54:08   people who are upset because I at its [TS]

00:54:12   root they're not as interested in seeing [TS]

00:54:14   a woman be throws a man or a black man [TS]

00:54:16   be captain america as a white man i do [TS]

00:54:18   think those people exist but i do think [TS]

00:54:20   a lot of this is because the difference [TS]

00:54:23   between movies and comics when they say [TS]

00:54:25   Johnny Storm in the new Fantastic Four [TS]

00:54:27   movie is going to be Michael B Jordan [TS]

00:54:28   people some people will say things about [TS]

00:54:31   it but it's like you know like with you [TS]

00:54:34   know other examples where you are making [TS]

00:54:36   a new movie and you've cast in a [TS]

00:54:37   different direction [TS]

00:54:38   people will be like all right it's a [TS]

00:54:40   movie whatever because it's new and it's [TS]

00:54:42   not like the old movies and whatever but [TS]

00:54:45   with comics there is that that core of [TS]

00:54:48   like but wait a second this is supposed [TS]

00:54:50   to be the same guys before in the Nick [TS]

00:54:51   Fury example Nick Fury jr. is a great [TS]

00:54:53   example which is these kind of torturous [TS]

00:54:55   how do we make it fit and continuity as [TS]

00:54:57   opposed to just saying tella tell a good [TS]

00:54:59   story and I think that that is what what [TS]

00:55:01   makes people i unnecessarily may be [TS]

00:55:06   angry but I who am I to judge makes them [TS]

00:55:08   angry is because it is not just seen as [TS]

00:55:11   a creative choice for a particular work [TS]

00:55:12   but seen as being kind of a rewriting [TS]

00:55:14   our underwriting of this continuing [TS]

00:55:16   story that's been going on and I get it [TS]

00:55:19   but at the same time this is the this is [TS]

00:55:21   the challenge just like it's the [TS]

00:55:23   challenge for the star trek producers [TS]

00:55:25   when they said this is going to be an in [TS]

00:55:26   continuity reboot of Star Trek [TS]

00:55:29   is you can't just make Spock black in [TS]

00:55:33   the right mood if you do that because [TS]

00:55:34   you've said it's part of continuity and [TS]

00:55:37   the burden changes in the end up putting [TS]

00:55:39   Carol Marcus and the shuttlecraft and [TS]

00:55:40   just as a bra on and solve the problem [TS]

00:55:43   right uh release are adding a woman [TS]

00:55:46   right and i firmly believe that's why [TS]

00:55:48   they did it is that they wanted to add [TS]

00:55:50   another woman in the casket was only the [TS]

00:55:52   1i think it's also important not to [TS]

00:55:54   nuttin here somebody out when they have [TS]

00:55:56   an objection because you don't [TS]

00:55:58   necessarily know the reason why I [TS]

00:56:00   thought that Michael beat Michael [TS]

00:56:01   Michael B Jordan instantly made me [TS]

00:56:04   interested in the Fantastic Four right [TS]

00:56:06   now because I ice I've seen his movies [TS]

00:56:09   as soon as use i would not have I would [TS]

00:56:10   not have put them on a list of 10 people [TS]

00:56:12   that I would cast because I probably [TS]

00:56:14   would not be thinking about about a [TS]

00:56:16   black person in that role but while he [TS]

00:56:18   has exactly the right attitude exactly [TS]

00:56:21   the right personality his movies that [TS]

00:56:23   such perfect casting but nonetheless i [TS]

00:56:26   have to admit though who was who was the [TS]

00:56:28   star trek voyager the black room and the [TS]

00:56:31   black welcome to talk to find the right [TS]

00:56:33   I'm right house i have to say that ice [TS]

00:56:35   I really that made the record group skip [TS]

00:56:38   for me because for me it was my 1st for [TS]

00:56:41   the 1st like eight episodes like but [TS]

00:56:44   every time the Paramount every time you [TS]

00:56:47   have cast an actor as a Vulcan not only [TS]

00:56:49   have you gone for a white person then [TS]

00:56:51   put the little greenish makeup on him [TS]

00:56:54   you always chosen the not only just bite [TS]

00:56:56   but the right the same sort of angular [TS]

00:56:59   sort of features and now you're giving [TS]

00:57:00   me the first Vulcan that does not look [TS]

00:57:03   anything like all of the Vulcans you've [TS]

00:57:05   seen before [TS]

00:57:07   is there a really big story but it was [TS]

00:57:10   it really take me well it was a while to [TS]

00:57:12   adjust that doesn't mean that all you [TS]

00:57:13   can [TS]

00:57:14   there's something wrong with this [TS]

00:57:15   decision is like it's your tell you've [TS]

00:57:17   told me something for 30 years and now [TS]

00:57:19   you're telling me something different [TS]

00:57:20   your story has changed now I don't know [TS]

00:57:22   why the pole looks like looks at all and [TS]

00:57:25   the kind of bony angular2 a little bit [TS]

00:57:27   too and enterprise so so okay voice your [TS]

00:57:30   expert [TS]

00:57:30   yes here with us different is it ever [TS]

00:57:33   address what justice is the real is the [TS]

00:57:35   racial composition I don't know what [TS]

00:57:37   everybody is crazy is a racial [TS]

00:57:39   composition of Vulcan and Tuvok [TS]

00:57:42   being a dark-skinned instead of likes [TS]

00:57:44   can ever mentioned at all i've seen [TS]

00:57:47   every episode of voyager like 10 times i [TS]

00:57:49   do not remember that ever being an [TS]

00:57:50   interesting interesting yeah i I just I [TS]

00:57:52   mean I mean and he's not wrong they did [TS]

00:57:54   kind of cast like I want an emo a type [TS]

00:57:56   for every Vulcan that we would just be [TS]

00:58:00   honest i have i have never thought that [TS]

00:58:02   thought for even two seconds like the [TS]

00:58:04   being surprised at two boxes I think Tim [TS]

00:58:07   russets performance is dead on Vulcan [TS]

00:58:08   and he does yeah got over it it's just [TS]

00:58:11   that again i assume that at some point [TS]

00:58:13   that's going to be the episode in which [TS]

00:58:14   this is addressed to take me a few [TS]

00:58:16   episodes to get past that and start to [TS]

00:58:19   just say okay he's a Vulcan but for [TS]

00:58:22   reasons that don't matter this is [TS]

00:58:23   casting to typewrite and this is one of [TS]

00:58:25   the problems is when you have a legacy [TS]

00:58:26   of casting to type where the casting is [TS]

00:58:28   about we're going to the type is it's a [TS]

00:58:30   white man and now you're saying we all [TS]

00:58:32   right no well I will know and not quite [TS]

00:58:34   I mean it'sit's like imagine imagine [TS]

00:58:36   that they had a Klingon who did not have [TS]

00:58:38   ridges on his or her forehead and just [TS]

00:58:41   like that we don't talk about that all [TS]

00:58:43   series like this fighting i'm saying [TS]

00:58:46   that when they when they read when they [TS]

00:58:47   read it they simply said that that they [TS]

00:58:49   did again they didn't have to put that [TS]

00:58:50   little like it down parka master suite [TS]

00:58:52   realize first Star Trek fans we did not [TS]

00:58:55   have the technology to do really cool [TS]

00:58:57   makeup in the sixties so please accept [TS]

00:58:59   that all Klingons always look basically [TS]

00:59:01   what they did they said these are [TS]

00:59:02   Klingons now right yeah and then see [TS]

00:59:04   that I have to agree with you Jason [TS]

00:59:06   yeah I I just strongly have to agree [TS]

00:59:09   with you I i think that i think that [TS]

00:59:11   you're dealing with legacy problems [TS]

00:59:13   there in the problem is so many of these [TS]

00:59:15   characters star trek comics doctor who [TS]

00:59:18   similarly really mythic important [TS]

00:59:21   characters to us they come from an era [TS]

00:59:23   that was even more racist and sexist [TS]

00:59:26   than today and it is i think like we're [TS]

00:59:29   just so used to it being white men that [TS]

00:59:31   you don't even notice it a certain point [TS]

00:59:34   and it's yeah the argument isn't I don't [TS]

00:59:36   want women characters the argument is or [TS]

00:59:38   is not a woman but the problem is if you [TS]

00:59:40   if you literally example if this has and [TS]

00:59:42   say don't change it what you're saying [TS]

00:59:44   is you know if something's gotta give [TS]

00:59:46   because they're all along largely they [TS]

00:59:48   are all men so how do we do this when [TS]

00:59:52   you mentioned doctor who you reminded me [TS]

00:59:53   of Neil game and got into [TS]

00:59:55   a small internet kerfuffle when he when [TS]

00:59:58   he was being asked about his [TS]

00:59:58   he was being asked about his [TS]

01:00:00   opinions about what if you cast a woman [TS]

01:00:01   as a doctor as the next doctor and he [TS]

01:00:04   said he didn't think that was a good [TS]

01:00:05   idea and I'm not going to try to quote [TS]

01:00:07   him because i don't remember the exact [TS]

01:00:09   details but he did you know his voice at [TS]

01:00:10   least it didn't have to do you have to [TS]

01:00:12   do it how to do a follow-up to explain [TS]

01:00:14   more details and he has no problems ii [TS]

01:00:17   is no disagreement with a female doctor [TS]

01:00:19   who but knowing what the storyline is [TS]

01:00:21   right now he knew that if they cast a [TS]

01:00:23   woman in this in the role right now they [TS]

01:00:25   really would have to make a storyline [TS]

01:00:27   about why is the first is why is the [TS]

01:00:30   first regeneration of the doctor who is [TS]

01:00:31   not who is not a not a not a man and for [TS]

01:00:34   that reason he felt he wants to see [TS]

01:00:36   fellow would be a good idea to tie up [TS]

01:00:38   some really pressing eminent storylines [TS]

01:00:41   because it would be a distraction at [TS]

01:00:42   this point so that's the sort of thing [TS]

01:00:45   that sometimes you can front you have to [TS]

01:00:46   look at the effect on the audience that [TS]

01:00:49   if you been [TS]

01:00:49   it's sometimes I don't think it's as [TS]

01:00:51   easy to change the gender of the cast a [TS]

01:00:55   person of a different gender or a [TS]

01:00:56   different ethnicity without having a [TS]

01:00:59   factor in how is that can affect your [TS]

01:01:01   ability to tell the next three episodes [TS]

01:01:03   of the show and tiff to be his credit [TS]

01:01:05   neil gaiman to the one who wrote the [TS]

01:01:06   fact the Time Lords can change their [TS]

01:01:07   genders in to cut into cannon [TS]

01:01:09   yeah in an episode of his he wrote that [TS]

01:01:11   into cannon so now it's there it's [TS]

01:01:13   sitting right there I was very [TS]

01:01:14   disappointed by Doctor Who being another [TS]

01:01:17   white dude again and I I don't know I it [TS]

01:01:21   sounds like i am i'm trying to hear [TS]

01:01:23   where you're coming from in the pattern [TS]

01:01:25   i'm seeing again and again is it feels [TS]

01:01:29   like to you you play some really really [TS]

01:01:31   high importance on this story likes like [TS]

01:01:35   working within your framework and the [TS]

01:01:37   way that you do understand story is not [TS]

01:01:39   do you have any objection to these [TS]

01:01:41   changes is that you really value fitting [TS]

01:01:44   in with this this world that you know [TS]

01:01:47   and I think like the difference i have [TS]

01:01:49   here is I feel like I feel like I'm [TS]

01:01:54   willing to fudge that a little bit to [TS]

01:01:56   get more representation there i mean [TS]

01:01:59   it's I'll tell you straight up i'm more [TS]

01:02:01   interested in representation if it even [TS]

01:02:04   if it means altering the story better [TS]

01:02:07   making it uncomfortable that and I [TS]

01:02:09   have no absolutely see that absolutely [TS]

01:02:11   absolutely respect that for me it's it's [TS]

01:02:14   more of a generalized thing we're a big [TS]

01:02:16   thing for me we're watching a movie a TV [TS]

01:02:18   show reading a book i feel as though the [TS]

01:02:21   creators of this get to write whatever [TS]

01:02:24   rules they possibly want [TS]

01:02:26   they basically tell us here is the [TS]

01:02:28   composition of the air here is the [TS]

01:02:29   gravity here are the laws in this land [TS]

01:02:32   here is what how fast can go on the [TS]

01:02:34   roads and I think that when you get [TS]

01:02:36   three quarters of the way through and [TS]

01:02:37   you said that yeah i know that for the [TS]

01:02:38   past four hundred pages we told you that [TS]

01:02:41   the air and people breathe oxygen in [TS]

01:02:43   this in this world actually now we're [TS]

01:02:45   going to tell you that here is about [TS]

01:02:46   8,000 people who breathe nitrogen and [TS]

01:02:49   when I could explain why it's not that [TS]

01:02:51   that's necessarily mistake but that [TS]

01:02:52   really there's a part of my brain this [TS]

01:02:54   processing but wait a minute you told me [TS]

01:02:55   the rule was that nobody on this planet [TS]

01:02:57   breathe nitrogen and now you're showing [TS]

01:02:59   me a thousand people who breathe it and [TS]

01:03:01   you're acting like that's not something [TS]

01:03:03   that I'm supposed to sort of skip over [TS]

01:03:04   that sometimes some stories they do make [TS]

01:03:08   it like like I would posit for for my [TS]

01:03:11   own perception that they did posit that [TS]

01:03:13   Vulcans are a very insulated society [TS]

01:03:15   that have a very very consistent [TS]

01:03:18   appearance that again so much so that [TS]

01:03:19   you could get nine if you get 90 white [TS]

01:03:23   dudes in the casting call and say okay [TS]

01:03:25   all but three of you go home because [TS]

01:03:26   only three of you look like Vulcans [TS]

01:03:28   that's why that's sort of it it doesn't [TS]

01:03:31   become a problem for me but that means [TS]

01:03:33   that now there is a percentage of my cpu [TS]

01:03:37   that's running that as a background [TS]

01:03:38   processes [TS]

01:03:39   why is there a black Vulcan and that i [TS]

01:03:41   think that's that's a little bit like [TS]

01:03:42   having no seaweed on the front of your [TS]

01:03:45   rotting keel that's racing like why do [TS]

01:03:47   you want to put that extra stupid why [TS]

01:03:49   not just not why just before slow this [TS]

01:03:51   down one percent i guess it's not and [TS]

01:03:53   and I do appreciate that's that I do [TS]

01:03:56   agree with your pretty with your your [TS]

01:03:57   position that sometimes [TS]

01:03:59   ok if you if you confuse people for a [TS]

01:04:01   few episodes that's all to the good [TS]

01:04:02   because we need to have better [TS]

01:04:04   representation out there that is [TS]

01:04:05   something that I definitely support i [TS]

01:04:08   like the idea of them taking Thor and [TS]

01:04:10   making him a woman a because it's a [TS]

01:04:13   crazy daring thing to do to take in [TS]

01:04:16   arguably one of the most manliest [TS]

01:04:18   ridiculously manly characters and say [TS]

01:04:21   he's a woman now he has the same hair [TS]

01:04:24   but let's see what that does partly [TS]

01:04:27   because for so many of the really iconic [TS]

01:04:33   characters you can't do that because [TS]

01:04:36   some jerk in the thirties put man right [TS]

01:04:38   in their name [TS]

01:04:39   oh right now you can't have a lady [TS]

01:04:42   spider man or lady Superman or lady [TS]

01:04:44   Batman [TS]

01:04:46   oh because their ex man but he's not [TS]

01:04:50   Thor man right [TS]

01:04:53   I i just want to start singing Thor [TS]

01:04:56   you'll be a woman soon the aisle but for [TS]

01:04:59   what well get well one of the things [TS]

01:05:01   that I like about that the way that [TS]

01:05:03   they're handling the same Wilson Falcon [TS]

01:05:05   taking over as captain america is that [TS]

01:05:07   is that is happening in something we [TS]

01:05:09   already have seen which is there's a [TS]

01:05:11   storyline involving captain america and [TS]

01:05:13   he sort of sacrifices himself and has [TS]

01:05:16   the super-soldier serum neutralized and [TS]

01:05:18   becomes an old man and so he can't be [TS]

01:05:20   Captain America anymore we've seen this [TS]

01:05:22   in the passwords like he's in capacities [TS]

01:05:24   dead they had Bucky put in the in the [TS]

01:05:26   captain america suit a few years ago I [TS]

01:05:29   had the punisher yeah so so in this case [TS]

01:05:32   there's there there is it actually is [TS]

01:05:34   happening at a point the story and I [TS]

01:05:35   don't know what the story is with with [TS]

01:05:37   Thor but I i feel like you know sure you [TS]

01:05:40   want this stuff stuff to happen if [TS]

01:05:41   you're in an ongoing story you want it [TS]

01:05:43   to happen organically and and that I [TS]

01:05:45   think that I think that definitely is [TS]

01:05:46   better [TS]

01:05:48   this is what this is this is I i think [TS]

01:05:50   this i think this affects how a lot of [TS]

01:05:51   people react to this thing in general [TS]

01:05:53   matter what what with the characters or [TS]

01:05:56   whatever or who gets in the costume i [TS]

01:05:58   think i think that for me what makes [TS]

01:06:01   them but sometimes it works or sometimes [TS]

01:06:03   I'm more open to it then other times is [TS]

01:06:04   that there are characters i feel as [TS]

01:06:07   though this is a costume and identity [TS]

01:06:09   that lots of people can inhabit like [TS]

01:06:11   ghostwriter where this is just there [TS]

01:06:13   it's it's a it's it was it seems as [TS]

01:06:16   though the person inside is not as [TS]

01:06:18   important as that costume and that skill [TS]

01:06:21   set and that role in the Marvel Universe [TS]

01:06:23   and then when you plug more different [TS]

01:06:25   people into it you get to see it's kinda [TS]

01:06:27   like a hundred bullets if you give the [TS]

01:06:29   same here is a eight idea that we're [TS]

01:06:31   going to apply to a series of different [TS]

01:06:32   people and part of what makes the [TS]

01:06:34   character so strong is that you see how [TS]

01:06:36   different people react to this other [TS]

01:06:38   characters like spider-man and Captain [TS]

01:06:40   America I feel as though Steve Rogers [TS]

01:06:42   and Peter Parker are kind of [TS]

01:06:43   non-negotiable the same thing with but [TS]

01:06:45   with back [TS]

01:06:46   man if it's not Bruce Wayne you've just [TS]

01:06:48   got someone else keeping the suit warm [TS]

01:06:51   while Bruce went well the real Batman is [TS]

01:06:53   not there [TS]

01:06:54   Thor is different because it's great [TS]

01:06:58   conceit where you have here is a hammer [TS]

01:06:59   where if you are worthy of picking it up [TS]

01:07:01   you got you become the god or goddess of [TS]

01:07:04   thunder does gender and determinants [TS]

01:07:05   this is I think that's it that's almost [TS]

01:07:09   a good topic for an entire show that [TS]

01:07:11   there what's the difference between an [TS]

01:07:13   identity and the person inside the suit [TS]

01:07:16   again I I can't [TS]

01:07:17   it's hard for me to get I i get past the [TS]

01:07:20   idea of someone else in the spider-man [TS]

01:07:21   suit [TS]

01:07:22   captain america also i don't feel as [TS]

01:07:23   though you can just simply put someone [TS]

01:07:25   else in the costume and you know the [TS]

01:07:27   contents of it are interchangeable but [TS]

01:07:30   that's certainly not something I feel [TS]

01:07:31   about every character so there was a [TS]

01:07:32   time when I would strongly agree with [TS]

01:07:34   you you know how much I love spider-man [TS]

01:07:35   is one of my favorite characters and [TS]

01:07:36   Peter Parker on how upset I was at what [TS]

01:07:39   happened to him in the two different [TS]

01:07:41   arcs that they've had and yet you know [TS]

01:07:43   what I love Miles Morales and I don't [TS]

01:07:45   feel like I feel like he's telling a [TS]

01:07:46   story that is it definitely a spider-man [TS]

01:07:49   story even though he's not Peter Parker [TS]

01:07:51   so i think it can be done and what I [TS]

01:07:53   love about this same wilsonart with [TS]

01:07:55   Captain America's boy cat being captain [TS]

01:07:57   america is a lot to live up to and [TS]

01:07:59   there's gotta be a lot of great dramatic [TS]

01:08:00   potential in that right of saying you [TS]

01:08:03   know Steve can't do the job anymore and [TS]

01:08:05   you you work with Steve for a lot of [TS]

01:08:07   years and you gotta do this you gotta [TS]

01:08:09   serve your country this is what you have [TS]

01:08:10   to do now that's an interesting story to [TS]

01:08:13   tell but my existence of miles and how [TS]

01:08:15   much I love miles shows that even though [TS]

01:08:17   i thought you know p spider-man will [TS]

01:08:19   always have to be about Peter Parker I [TS]

01:08:21   didn't turn out to be true although i [TS]

01:08:22   wasn't interested in Otto Octavius this [TS]

01:08:25   spider-man I Miles Morales puts that you [TS]

01:08:28   know points out that that doesn't have [TS]

01:08:30   to be the case but and I'm for instance [TS]

01:08:32   you having brought a batman i should [TS]

01:08:34   also bring a batman beyond which does a [TS]

01:08:37   really good job putting sound else in [TS]

01:08:39   the suit but still telling interesting [TS]

01:08:41   stories about Bruce Wayne was Dick [TS]

01:08:43   Grayson Batman and me with oh yeah yeah [TS]

01:08:46   lots of people have been Batman there's [TS]

01:08:48   a whole world below Batman Incorporated [TS]

01:08:50   recently right you can get so attached [TS]

01:08:55   to these characters but we've all had [TS]

01:08:57   that moment when we're reading a comic [TS]

01:08:59   book it's the same story the same Dylan [TS]

01:09:02   the same conflict the same thing [TS]

01:09:04   happening over and over and over again [TS]

01:09:06   like with Wolverine who is about to die [TS]

01:09:09   you know what frustrates me about [TS]

01:09:11   Wolverine is it seems to follow a really [TS]

01:09:14   predictable formula Wolverine is [TS]

01:09:17   fighting someone he suffers it's nearly [TS]

01:09:19   killed you know he heals despite all [TS]

01:09:22   odds and then comes back and kick their [TS]

01:09:23   butt and you know it'sit's with such a [TS]

01:09:27   formula for so many years that shaking [TS]

01:09:30   it up [TS]

01:09:31   yeah yeah that's it happens all the time [TS]

01:09:33   but that's the formula of hulk hogan [TS]

01:09:35   wrestling matches too right yeah and I [TS]

01:09:40   just I again I think sometimes these [TS]

01:09:42   changes are painful i'm a huge x-men fan [TS]

01:09:45   and you know Xavier dying was was [TS]

01:09:49   difficult for me or Jean Grey dying was [TS]

01:09:51   really difficult for me but like if you [TS]

01:09:54   read all new x-men like all the things [TS]

01:09:56   with Cyclops being unable to control his [TS]

01:09:57   powers as past self coming to like stop [TS]

01:10:00   its current self from becoming evil I [TS]

01:10:02   mean it's a really great story and I [TS]

01:10:05   just I think there's so much potential [TS]

01:10:07   here did just being a better more [TS]

01:10:11   exciting story and we get to diversity [TS]

01:10:13   so it's too awesome things at once and [TS]

01:10:16   again it's I would raise the specter of [TS]

01:10:20   Uncle Ben literally like the go heater [TS]

01:10:23   with great i was i was thinking of rice [TS]

01:10:27   myself i think i think the strongest [TS]

01:10:30   stories to keep a foot in both ideas [TS]

01:10:33   that continuity and establish that [TS]

01:10:35   whatever happens as as J michael [TS]

01:10:38   Straczynski said about the difference [TS]

01:10:39   between Babylon 5 and star trek [TS]

01:10:41   continuity [TS]

01:10:42   not only does stuff happened in Babylon [TS]

01:10:44   5 but stuff stays happened i think even [TS]

01:10:46   have feet both ideas of change and also [TS]

01:10:49   honoring on what came before so that it [TS]

01:10:52   has it can have some continued relevance [TS]

01:10:54   imagine that if uncle been shot by the [TS]

01:10:58   shop by the robber and then five years [TS]

01:11:00   later but let's say in Marvel time let's [TS]

01:11:04   say 11 months later [TS]

01:11:05   oh it turns out that the robber was [TS]

01:11:07   actually as a first person who work with [TS]

01:11:09   Uncle Ben at the CIA at a secret job he [TS]

01:11:12   had faked his death to do this but now [TS]

01:11:14   he's back and he's fine [TS]

01:11:15   we would have missed this towering event [TS]

01:11:17   that redefined and reshape this person's [TS]

01:11:20   life sometimes I think that when we [TS]

01:11:22   shake things when Marvel is excited [TS]

01:11:25   about shaking things up every two years [TS]

01:11:27   they're turning their back on that [TS]

01:11:29   opportunity of giving that richness that [TS]

01:11:31   sort of umami to the story that can't [TS]

01:11:33   happen if in aliens invade everything [TS]

01:11:36   take over the entire world and a beer [TS]

01:11:37   later nobody cares but i will say i [TS]

01:11:40   would love to see the story where Uncle [TS]

01:11:42   Ben comes back and he has to deal with [TS]

01:11:44   well here's this thing that changed me [TS]

01:11:45   but now it turned out to be alive what [TS]

01:11:47   do i do do I keep doing that because I'm [TS]

01:11:50   a hero or do I keep doing such a hack [TS]

01:11:52   that way in such a hat that would be an [TS]

01:11:54   imaginary story David oh yes and we're [TS]

01:11:58   like no idea what if I think one reason [TS]

01:12:01   people don't care about last year's [TS]

01:12:03   alien invasion that at one point I think [TS]

01:12:06   it was DC comics had a rule that their [TS]

01:12:08   entire history took place the last 30 [TS]

01:12:11   years to keep their characters from [TS]

01:12:13   getting too old [TS]

01:12:14   so you have to look at every alien [TS]

01:12:16   invasion that ever happened like you [TS]

01:12:19   look at Batman's huge publication [TS]

01:12:22   history and you don't figure out that he [TS]

01:12:24   had become Batman met Robin two days [TS]

01:12:27   later they they fought the Joker at nine [TS]

01:12:30   am-2 p.m. and then star oh the thing [TS]

01:12:35   from beyond space attacked so it's like [TS]

01:12:38   the cosmos cosmic calendar [TS]

01:12:40   yeah it eventually you gotta stop caring [TS]

01:12:42   about the alien invasion well it's like [TS]

01:12:44   this it's like mash it's the you count [TS]

01:12:46   the days that happened in math and you [TS]

01:12:47   realize yeah way more days than happened [TS]

01:12:49   in the Korean War so I guess did we see [TS]

01:12:51   different parts of what the same day and [TS]

01:12:53   different episodes of mash it's I [TS]

01:12:54   tryparse about Christmas episodes yeah [TS]

01:12:57   that many Christmases not that many [TS]

01:12:58   Christmases but there is one episode [TS]

01:13:00   that takes place over the course of a [TS]

01:13:01   year [TS]

01:13:02   yeah which is really screwed up and the [TS]

01:13:05   end the central theme is the Sears [TS]

01:13:07   Roebuck catalogue now that's a dynamic [TS]

01:13:09   storytelling [TS]

01:13:10   well it's like how that episode of get a [TS]

01:13:12   life or chris elliott dies at the end [TS]

01:13:14   oh wait that's every episode [TS]

01:13:15   didn't know what alright alright we are [TS]

01:13:19   we are out of time [TS]

01:13:20   this has been a fascinating conversation [TS]

01:13:21   is much more there's much more we can [TS]

01:13:23   talk about Andy already suggested topics [TS]

01:13:26   and we got the moment but this is I mean [TS]

01:13:28   this is these are these are like comic [TS]

01:13:30   books in some ways or you know that is [TS]

01:13:32   like the stories we the humans have been [TS]

01:13:34   telling around campfires for years and [TS]

01:13:35   they may even since the dawn of humanity [TS]

01:13:37   and they change and they grow and [TS]

01:13:40   sometimes there's probably some guy at [TS]

01:13:42   the back of the campfires is no didn't [TS]

01:13:43   in the last story that you told by this [TS]

01:13:46   campfire you say that his mother was [TS]

01:13:48   from the east but now you saying she's [TS]

01:13:50   from the south like yeah well whatever [TS]

01:13:53   you know they were kind of continuity [TS]

01:13:54   around the campfires in the caveman days [TS]

01:13:56   i think even happen then how many [TS]

01:13:58   different names have John Watson's wife [TS]

01:14:01   had ya know exactly exactly so it is [TS]

01:14:04   about storytelling and about about how [TS]

01:14:07   we all tell these stories in our own [TS]

01:14:09   minds that we read and we catalog them [TS]

01:14:11   and then this idea of making change I [TS]

01:14:13   think that's fascinating i do think that [TS]

01:14:15   you know we have to salute uh the the [TS]

01:14:19   publishing companies for doing i mean i [TS]

01:14:21   can say it's a even if i say it's a a UH [TS]

01:14:24   a promotional opportunity because it [TS]

01:14:27   totally is that lets go on the view [TS]

01:14:29   let's go on the colbert report the fact [TS]

01:14:31   is they are by making this they're not [TS]

01:14:34   just making their their intellectual [TS]

01:14:36   property and their cast of characters [TS]

01:14:38   more diverse but they're telling stories [TS]

01:14:39   that maybe haven't told before and I [TS]

01:14:41   think that's idea is good too and yeah [TS]

01:14:44   in the end we're friends not gonna stay [TS]

01:14:46   dead and who knows these other changes [TS]

01:14:49   make it unto although who knows where [TS]

01:14:51   they might lead because that also [TS]

01:14:52   happens that there are temporary changes [TS]

01:14:54   that end up being awesome and those [TS]

01:14:56   characters stick around because those [TS]

01:14:58   were stories that people that resonated [TS]

01:15:00   with people so that's a good thing too [TS]

01:15:02   they're not really going to replace [TS]

01:15:03   these classic x-men with a whole bunch [TS]

01:15:05   of new guys [TS]

01:15:06   that's right so anyway I would like to [TS]

01:15:08   thank my guests for this stimulating [TS]

01:15:10   conversation [TS]

01:15:11   David lord thank you for being here [TS]

01:15:12   anytime Monty actually thank you for [TS]

01:15:15   bringing your knowledge of common [TS]

01:15:18   history i reset that uh it'll be [TS]

01:15:23   redacted and I could thank you so much [TS]

01:15:26   for being here it's been a slice [TS]

01:15:29   and Brianna Wu thanks for being back it [TS]

01:15:31   was great having you here happy to do it [TS]

01:15:33   the stuff is so important said that's [TS]

01:15:35   why I'm so passionate about it [TS]

01:15:36   oh I appreciate that love comics I I [TS]

01:15:38   appreciate this all started with a [TS]

01:15:40   conversation about about x-23 right i [TS]

01:15:44   love x 20mm alright and thanks to [TS]

01:15:46   everybody out there for listening to us [TS]

01:15:48   for an hour talk about comics and [TS]

01:15:49   storytelling and recasting characters [TS]

01:15:51   and things like that [TS]

01:15:53   we appreciate you too and we'll see you [TS]

01:15:54   next time [TS]