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H.I. #12: Hamburgers in the Pipes


00:00:00   You are sick and I am just exhausted and amount of coffee that I need more. Let me ask you this let me ask you this. [TS]

00:00:08   I just want to clear something up here because you're like one of my American friends taught element thirteen on the [TS]

00:00:14   periodic table. Symbol I Al I was that you don't need some of the symbol element there is aluminum aluminium. [TS]

00:00:23   You mean alum in the M. and M. [TS]

00:00:27   Are you really going to start this argument I really didn't start so I want to know what you know the funny thing is I [TS]

00:00:32   need to pull I need to pull up some google stuff. [TS]

00:00:34   Right now I go out and I know you don't need to know I know I do I certainly do. [TS]

00:00:38   You keep talking I'm going to do a little little lot of research right now I am a I am across this issue I actually [TS]

00:00:46   thought you were going to be the minium camp on this. Why on earth would you think that I don't know I just flew. [TS]

00:00:54   That's what I thought I thought and I know a lot of Americans say aluminum. [TS]

00:00:59   I thought you were going to unless one thought would happen. [TS]

00:01:03   But now you go to live in and tell me your live research or your position [TS]

00:01:08   or whatever I'm just I'm trying to find out because I thought that there was some chemistry organization that didn't of [TS]

00:01:16   the charge of the pronunciation I pack the older Union blood chemistry this is you're talking to the guy that makes [TS]

00:01:24   period of videos man five you pack Sunny's I'm not ready that's all right then you try to pull it up here because I [TS]

00:01:31   couldn't remember which way they went on that it was ninety ninety that they basically said it's Alan minium that will [TS]

00:01:39   do and they also went change the spelling on cesium and sofa [TS]

00:01:45   and there was this kind of I think it was bit of a deal where they when I gave one to the Americans [TS]

00:01:49   and the Americans gave some to the Europeans and the Europeans did the right thing [TS]

00:01:54   and took on the American side of the do when the Americans just that now they can go in. [TS]

00:02:00   If you don't care and if two or three years later you pack folded like a deck of cards [TS]

00:02:06   and said OK you could have both Alad minium is still the first preference it still have a Russia on their official [TS]

00:02:12   periodic table [TS]

00:02:13   but I have a little footnote saying some people also say aluminium meaning Americans who've been a done deal that the [TS]

00:02:20   that the passive aggressive some people we can beat is sometimes very good at the at the super passive aggressive way [TS]

00:02:26   of phrasing something they're like oh we're neutral. We're just passively aggressively neutral. I'm looking at. [TS]

00:02:32   I thought there was something more recent than that but I'm going to I'm going to take your word for it. [TS]

00:02:36   Well it's Alan many and we can period it videos [TS]

00:02:38   and millions of videos about them so I don't think they're throwing a spanner in my works now. [TS]

00:02:43   Well I don't know if this makes you feel better or if it makes you feel worse but when I taught here in the U.K. [TS]

00:02:49   I would always say aluminium. [TS]

00:02:51   I would never say aluminum because it was just far too distracting for the students to hear apparently what is the [TS]

00:02:57   hilarious American pronunciation so I would say aluminium and never a comment so. [TS]

00:03:05   I had opted out while I was here teaching but if I'm to sing at normal speech it's going to be aluminum. [TS]

00:03:11   You did have a little mana victory though in my house today. Oh yeah because you have mice. [TS]

00:03:16   My sister has started listening to all the hello internets [TS]

00:03:20   and she's really into it which was surprising because I'm sure she doesn't watch my videos or anything [TS]

00:03:26   but anyway she started listening. She says she enjoys it. [TS]

00:03:29   So we're having a chat and then I said oh I've got something else I want to show you who are talking on Skype [TS]

00:03:35   and I went [TS]

00:03:36   and got this periodic table that has just been sent to me by my high school chemistry teacher from Australia [TS]

00:03:42   and it was the periodic table that was up on the wall of my classroom [TS]

00:03:46   when I was a student like inspired my interest in chemistry [TS]

00:03:49   and it's a huge huge old you know outdated dusty old thing but you know it's a great piece of memorabilia [TS]

00:03:56   and I pulled it out and said Look at this look what's been said to me really proudly. [TS]

00:04:00   And she just went more rubbish more saluted then that's great. [TS]

00:04:06   She was she was which is ridiculous because her house is full of stuff [TS]

00:04:10   but anyway she was on your side there saying I like that she called it your monthly and that is great [TS]

00:04:16   but that is really good. [TS]

00:04:18   Could we ballpark your age based on how many elements are on the periodic table I don't know the rate at which elements [TS]

00:04:25   have been discovered over the past several decades. [TS]

00:04:27   But where does the periodic table stop you must have it framed somewhere by now and I know it's next to my desk [TS]

00:04:33   and wrote up Hang on let me see if I can unroll a boy. Yeah. It's massive This is actually what you have today. [TS]

00:04:44   We need a picture of this for the show notes in the future. [TS]

00:04:46   Yeah I actually made a video about it because [TS]

00:04:49   when I went to Australia it was still left in the class it was still up in the classroom [TS]

00:04:53   and I went there with a professor from parody videos [TS]

00:04:55   and we said look this is the periodic table that inspired the website and the videos and it was over a lovely [TS]

00:05:00   and now all this time later he's actually sent it to me so I was hoping I'd keep it up there [TS]

00:05:05   and maybe put like one of those little blue plaques underneath it [TS]

00:05:08   and say oh yeah well you haven't went to scope stuff that I've basically gotten rid of it dumped on me. [TS]

00:05:13   That's exactly it. They knew who it accepted gratefully. Well element one hundred four is not even named here. [TS]

00:05:19   Say oh wow OK. OK I can remember is it. [TS]

00:05:27   Shoot Finian something like phone ins an am but you'll probably end it with you and because you're American. [TS]

00:05:38   Anyway they are more tech to my house so it has a hundred for about one hundred four is not named. [TS]

00:05:45   Yeah right still got the letter naming convention year so it actually stops it stops at one hundred six hundred six. [TS]

00:05:58   No Nexium it's got to us. As well say if you want to know the year over year it's rough thirty forty M. [TS]

00:06:06   I cannot believe I couldn't remember that that is disappointing. [TS]

00:06:11   Why are you disappointed I would've thought you'd be really into the periodic table. [TS]

00:06:15   OK I will tell you yet another story of me just being a terrible person [TS]

00:06:19   and I guess which goes along with this I had a I had a friend in college who I was I was somewhat competitive with [TS]

00:06:27   and she was a chemistry major and I was a physics major and simply to irritate her. [TS]

00:06:34   I memorized all of the names of all of the elements and their atomic number and their positions in the periodic table. [TS]

00:06:42   I was trying to drive home of course like a physics major would the point that all chemistry is just stamp collecting [TS]

00:06:48   like I can spend a few days and memorize this thing [TS]

00:06:50   and it's all I basically know all there is to know about your subject [TS]

00:06:53   but I have a have a whole flash card system that I keep up to date I always like to put the facts and things in it [TS]

00:07:00   and that periodic table the information is still in my flash card system to this day so I can usually not as well as I [TS]

00:07:09   did back in the day [TS]

00:07:09   but I can usually know the name of an element given the atomic number of the element did you watch do you watch the [TS]

00:07:15   T.V. Show. Point less do you not. [TS]

00:07:19   It's that I won't bore you with the details of the show but the idea of the show is to know. [TS]

00:07:24   So as to questions to which there are multiple answers like elements on the periodic table. [TS]

00:07:29   But to pick the most obscure possible answer. [TS]

00:07:33   So the idea is to is not just to get a ride but to get it right in a way that no one else would get it right [TS]

00:07:38   and I do a poll of a hundred people [TS]

00:07:39   and that you've got to find the answer that no one else said which is still correct is like reverse Stanley if you [TS]

00:07:47   don't entirely understand it. Yeah yeah yeah that's actually that's not a bad way to put it. [TS]

00:07:51   Yeah [TS]

00:07:51   but this one has to be factually correct as OK you want the answer that is factually correct that the fewest number of [TS]

00:07:57   people give. Yeah and you know. [TS]

00:08:00   No one gave it the answer is considered pointless and that's like that's like you know that's a huge. [TS]

00:08:06   OK So that's the big win. Nobody else said it is but it is still correct OK. Yeah that's interesting. [TS]

00:08:13   So to give you an example that was just on the other day I was watching it the other day [TS]

00:08:16   and I wasn't doing very well but then sort of the grand finale for the big jackpot. [TS]

00:08:22   They had five areas they could choose between [TS]

00:08:25   and one of them was chemistry one of the women on the show I really fancied as a bit of a science expert [TS]

00:08:31   and had been talking a self up is this real science carries through the show. [TS]

00:08:35   So she said we're going to do chemistry but with supreme confidence. [TS]

00:08:39   Well this is going to be good [TS]

00:08:41   and then the question was name an element on the periodic table for which its symbol is also the first two letters of [TS]

00:08:51   the elements nine which is a you know OK OK second for my brain to parse. Yeah yeah I say like helium right. [TS]

00:09:00   Ha and it's that's also the first two letters of helium. Right so you know. [TS]

00:09:06   Yeah yeah so I mean there are quite a few of them. [TS]

00:09:10   So the idea was to come up with one that you know no one else would think of as well run as a green on there that's my [TS]

00:09:16   that's the fastest one I can come up with the probably the fewest number of people would guess [TS]

00:09:20   and I think I can remember what ones I was fancy anyway so I was reeling off a whole bunch that I thought were likely [TS]

00:09:28   and then how to start it and she was led to name three [TS]

00:09:32   and one of them had to be completely pointless to win the jackpot. [TS]

00:09:35   Had to be no one else had said it so I thought I K Let's say let's see what she names [TS]

00:09:40   and the ones she named were plutonium so wrong four on which was just is just bait [TS]

00:09:52   but then that's great of that even if you let it. No no no no it gets better. [TS]

00:09:57   The piece de resistance and one that she thought was most like. [TS]

00:10:00   Would it be correct to say she made it her like bank and was unobtainium. [TS]

00:10:05   God and this was the one who said I really want to do a science category because I'm a science [TS]

00:10:12   and leapt at the chance to do chemistry. [TS]

00:10:16   She had three options unobtainium under God I was pretty disappointed I hate James Cameron so much for putting [TS]

00:10:25   unobtainium an avatar that's just as bad. I was really bad as really bad. [TS]

00:10:31   I I mean I just have to explain it just briefly to anyone on the if that happens to be listening [TS]

00:10:38   and you made it all the way through Avatar [TS]

00:10:40   but unobtainium it was a science fiction term just to refer to some kind of material which is not possible to actually [TS]

00:10:50   make. So it was a it was a generic classification so. [TS]

00:10:55   Like the the material in the Ringworld books that those worlds are made you could say Oh that is an unobtainium because [TS]

00:11:02   it's incredibly light super strong metal that can possibly exist [TS]

00:11:07   and then for Cameron to actually have the metal that they're going after in the movie called unobtainium is just so [TS]

00:11:14   distracting. There were so many things in that movie that I hated but that one really really ground my gears. [TS]

00:11:20   It would be like having something in a movie that the characters are going after that is called the Macguffin. [TS]

00:11:26   Oh we're trying to find the McGuffin It's like only the first movie that did the MacGuffin that created the term [TS]

00:11:32   McGuffin is allowed to do that you in your subsequent movies can just call something a MacGuffin without being [TS]

00:11:37   incredibly distracting. [TS]

00:11:39   The movie made me furious for very many reasons but piracy subtitles being one of them as well [TS]

00:11:44   but the unobtainium particularly which is like I cannot believe that it's just make up a new name this is the laziest [TS]

00:11:51   most awful distracting thing you could possibly do that movies dating badly [TS]

00:11:55   when it came out like I didn't I didn't hate it I didn't hate her and I don't matter. [TS]

00:12:00   So I thought it was pretty impressive you know it's got its flaws but it was pretty impressive to look at Russia. [TS]

00:12:05   Again the other day because I stumbled over on the telly [TS]

00:12:08   and it just it's looking really poor these days like at times not been kind to me. Good good. [TS]

00:12:17   How many stars have any say as a given. No stars I give it you know the stars. No stands no stars. [TS]

00:12:24   So any more follow up well can I just tell you one more thing about Avatar actually [TS]

00:12:29   and I just know I know I get what you can but OK you know what I hate most about the ending of that movie. [TS]

00:12:35   Drives me crazy and sometimes I just remember the ending of that movie [TS]

00:12:39   and it makes me angry because they think OK OK This spacefaring civilization has you know is coming into conflict with [TS]

00:12:49   basically people with no technology whatsoever [TS]

00:12:53   and I can understand the notion that maybe under highly specific circumstances at the natives can win a ground war on [TS]

00:13:00   this planet sure whatever. I'll let that slide but the final day he really wants to know. [TS]

00:13:06   Yeah yeah right like that's I'll give it to the e walks a fine you know the terrain those apps can be tripped up quite [TS]

00:13:13   easily with some string. Fine fine I'll let that go. [TS]

00:13:16   Right but it's always like the whole empire it crumbles this whole system is gone. [TS]

00:13:21   Now in Avatar the locals are loading the invaders back onto their space ships right now and ships presumably. [TS]

00:13:31   If you don't like to like take off and to go into space [TS]

00:13:35   and the whole opening premise of that movie is that they're coming from Earth because there are some unspecified huge [TS]

00:13:42   problem on earth. People are dying so they need this unobtainium it's incredibly expensive it's hugely valuable. [TS]

00:13:49   They're not just going to go home right they're not just going to go back to earth [TS]

00:13:52   and be like well sorry everybody you know we couldn't remove that tree from its particular location [TS]

00:13:57   and we know billions of people have to die. [TS]

00:14:00   But they did fight us off with sticks on the ground is just our God I cannot stand that spaceships spaceship. [TS]

00:14:08   Sorry it just it really it makes me angry. [TS]

00:14:11   I hate that word and I made the eighty S T's that he walks taking out you know in the N.T. [TS]

00:14:16   I think you know what the terrible thing is as soon as I said it I realized it was the wrong to the nation because yeah [TS]

00:14:21   yeah the four legged versions. [TS]

00:14:23   You're going to have to get rich [TS]

00:14:25   and you don't muck around with the only one I think of ads in the final movie is is there's a shot of them kind of [TS]

00:14:33   patrolling the base but it gets had Yeah but you say [TS]

00:14:38   when he added looking at it in the lower left hand side of the screen. [TS]

00:14:41   But as soon as I said it I regretted it and I knew it was wrong [TS]

00:14:45   but I thought I can't do real myself at this very moment [TS]

00:14:47   but I am going to take it up on the status of scientists a good twenty minutes [TS]

00:14:51   and follow up next we're going to do half of it. [TS]

00:14:54   We would have gotten e-mails [TS]

00:14:55   and I would you know what that's a kind of like the kind of person you could pick up on that I appreciate that if you [TS]

00:15:00   realize it's the wrong designation so you know I accept with on Facebook with my friends [TS]

00:15:06   and stuff if people make you know spelling mistakes or typos OK commas [TS]

00:15:10   or apostrophes wrong you know that stuff is that [TS]

00:15:13   when friends start like spelling Star Wars things incorrectly like I was having a discussion the other day on Facebook [TS]

00:15:18   with a friend about the Salek and he said that sounds like incorrectly [TS]

00:15:23   and I wasn't that it was you know because it was all of that. [TS]

00:15:26   Pedantry because someone had to post a picture of a two day tour with a light saber like someone just as agitated also [TS]

00:15:33   looting at like seven someone's like our you know T.T.T. [TS]

00:15:35   Never had a lot say that and it sounds like well as a matter of fact yes he did [TS]

00:15:39   when he fired the lightsaber to Luke Skywalker I was getting very contained. [TS]

00:15:43   Yes Yeah but then I was like well OK if you get a call that you've got to get a Salic spoke correctly [TS]

00:15:48   and anyway it spiraled into the sort of conversation that results in you never having a girlfriend I mean we measure we [TS]

00:15:56   could talk about so I was for forever which was we're not going to do but I will I will say is I find a little. [TS]

00:16:00   You know what I've been up to think it was recently made the fourth which has become this kind of weird Star Wars sort [TS]

00:16:06   of holiday I guess. [TS]

00:16:09   And I spent my making the fourth not I didn't do this on purpose [TS]

00:16:13   but afterwards I thought oh this is quite This is quite. [TS]

00:16:15   This worked out quite well for reasons I'll get into later I had stuff that I need to do [TS]

00:16:19   and I spent the whole May fourth re watching one of my favorite things on the internet ever which is the red letter [TS]

00:16:27   media reviews of Star Wars Episode one two and three Have you seen this [TS]

00:16:32   and really there is no better way to spend your time than watching guys that are brilliant. [TS]

00:16:38   I have I have thought many a time that I forgive the existence of those first three movies because without them we [TS]

00:16:45   would not have the red letter media reviews I will put the link in the show notes if you haven't seen these things they [TS]

00:16:53   are great at what I will just pre warn people that the style of them takes a lot of getting used to. [TS]

00:17:00   There's a kind of super creepy narrator who is doing this review of why the first three movies are awful. [TS]

00:17:07   Trust me people run with it. Just just go along with it it is completely worth it. They are amazing. [TS]

00:17:13   They're really entertaining [TS]

00:17:14   and I often think of them as I mean they are as long as the movies themselves I think it's six hours to watch all of [TS]

00:17:20   them from start to finish. They're great and that's great. [TS]

00:17:23   He's got some really good stuff [TS]

00:17:25   and some other films too I mean the no yeah yeah the star was the pinnacle of the Indiana Jones stuff is quite good. [TS]

00:17:31   Yes standing in a Star Trek I actually my wife has seen the red letter media reviews [TS]

00:17:38   but my wife is a very big Star Trek fan and I think of sort of references before on the show [TS]

00:17:43   and I will not let her watch the red letter media star trek reviews because I've told her [TS]

00:17:49   and I know her well enough to know that this is true. [TS]

00:17:51   These reviews will just ruin some of the things in Star and Star Trek for you forever. [TS]

00:17:56   You can't unsee some of the things that he talks about or the floods he points out. [TS]

00:18:00   So there's a whole team of guys that red letter media [TS]

00:18:03   and I mean those those reviews are I think just just great great great reviews [TS]

00:18:08   but I would definitely list the Star Wars reviews in particular as one of my ten favorite things I have ever seen on [TS]

00:18:15   the Internet so it will be in the show notes. Check it out people it's amazing. [TS]

00:18:19   Follow up follow up we're talking about news last time someone in the Reddit left a quote which you can I thought [TS]

00:18:25   summarize my my position just beautifully which is this Mark Twain quote that goes if you don't read the newspaper. [TS]

00:18:33   Your uninformed and if you read the newspaper you are misinformed [TS]

00:18:38   and I thought that that just struck me as beautiful like that is a perfect encapsulation of Basically my opinion of [TS]

00:18:44   most of the news and. I choose to be uninformed rather than misinformed. So I just I love that. [TS]

00:18:52   So thanks to whoever posted that on on the read it that was just that was just perfect that was really good. [TS]

00:18:58   Did Mark Twain like say anything in his life that wasn't like an awesome quote like he must have been five hundred [TS]

00:19:04   years out of sight to be sent over or some quotes where he said well this is it I have not investigated. [TS]

00:19:09   Actually Mark to another so many mis attributed to Mark Twain kind of quote It's like it's like Yogi Berra there's a [TS]

00:19:14   certain kind of quote that just gets ascribed to a particular person so someone can tell us in the comments if that is [TS]

00:19:20   genuinely if it is a sourced Mark Twain quote or if this is just a manufactured Mark Twain quote [TS]

00:19:25   or if somebody else said it wasn't as famous as Mark Twain [TS]

00:19:28   but either way that that statement I think is just perfect absolutely perfect timing can they put a link down they want [TS]

00:19:35   to talk about. [TS]

00:19:36   Oh yeah I just just very briefly because I mentioned Nate Silver's five thirty eight Project the other one that I want [TS]

00:19:42   to mention which is I don't I don't know this reporter as well [TS]

00:19:46   but it's got called as reclined has started his own news project as well which looks promising I was taking a look at [TS]

00:19:53   it a little bit earlier today [TS]

00:19:55   but one of the things I like that they're that they're doing on this alternate news project is. [TS]

00:20:00   Well is there publishing. [TS]

00:20:02   If they interview someone they're publishing both the interviews like the full length Here's the actual interview we [TS]

00:20:09   did. [TS]

00:20:09   In addition to the story itself [TS]

00:20:12   and I think that that is a great example of how news on the Internet can just can just be so different [TS]

00:20:18   and you can you can have a story that summarizes an interview that you did with somebody [TS]

00:20:22   and within that story you can link to the audio version or whatever our limitations. [TS]

00:20:28   There's no there's no limit at all [TS]

00:20:31   and I think part of it is a guy I have followed for years called Paul Graham was recently caught out in a big big [TS]

00:20:37   problem where the quote that he said was taken out of context and [TS]

00:20:41   and this is the kind of thing where I think it is great if this could become more of a standard that look if you're [TS]

00:20:45   going to do a story you're going to publish the whole interview as well so you can't try to spin it in a particular way. [TS]

00:20:54   And also on the flip side it allows it doesn't allow people to just claim that they were misquoted if they are actually [TS]

00:21:01   just said some horrible thing or if they really meant that they can say oh the newspaper took me out of context. [TS]

00:21:06   Because again you have a whole interview there so I thought I just thought that was a good example of how the internet [TS]

00:21:11   is different and can be better than traditional news reporting in some ways. [TS]

00:21:16   So yeah appealing to Vox in the show notes if people want to check that out. [TS]

00:21:24   Today's episode of hello internet has been sponsored by our friends at all Boo dot com the leading provider of spoken [TS]

00:21:30   audio information and entertainment. Listen to audiobooks whenever and wherever you want. [TS]

00:21:37   Now you can get a free audiobook [TS]

00:21:39   when you sign on for the orrible membership if you go to Old dot com slash Hello the internet you'll find all the data [TS]

00:21:45   files and I really enjoy all of the ads because we get to recommend a book [TS]

00:21:49   and today Grey's let me loose he's going to let me recommend one that first of all I think I quickly talk about why you [TS]

00:21:55   would listen to audiobooks. I've only really got into audio books in the last couple of years and that's because. [TS]

00:22:00   See changes in my life. [TS]

00:22:01   One is I've started driving a lot more and longer distances because of my work [TS]

00:22:07   and like reading an actual book at the wheel of a car is pretty dangerous. [TS]

00:22:11   So I give that mace and go for the audiobooks instead. [TS]

00:22:14   But also you've probably heard me talk recently on the podcast about some trips I've taken to the Himalayas [TS]

00:22:19   and that involves basically you know ten hour walks each day and audiobooks really helped pass the time. [TS]

00:22:26   Now when I did those trips I filled up the i Phone with books all about Mt Everest in the Himalayas [TS]

00:22:31   and I love mountaineering books full stop. [TS]

00:22:33   I want to recommend a book today called high crimes by Michael Codesa I guess is how you pronounce his name. [TS]

00:22:39   This is a book I listen to while walking to Everest base camp [TS]

00:22:43   and basically I mean the subheading of the book is the fate of Everest in an age of greed and it really is about. [TS]

00:22:51   Why all the crazy things people are getting up to on the mountain these days. [TS]

00:22:55   I mean this isn't like sort of into thin air where you think well you know some people here have got moral dilemmas. [TS]

00:23:02   This book tells some stories about some acts people do that are just plain criminal. [TS]

00:23:07   It really is extraordinary it's true story [TS]

00:23:09   and it's told really cleverly it's told from the two different sides of the mountain at the same time some people who [TS]

00:23:17   are going up from the deposed Saddam some of the people who were going up from the the China Tibet side it's really [TS]

00:23:23   worth listening to. [TS]

00:23:24   It's well narrated it's well written [TS]

00:23:27   and if you're someone who does like going for walks it's a really nice book to have playing while sort of you know [TS]

00:23:34   admiring the scenery and watching the world go by. [TS]

00:23:37   So they go high crimes if you want to listen to all of you has along with one hundred fifty thousand other titles. [TS]

00:23:43   No mountaineering books unfortunately but I've got pretty much every genre covered. [TS]

00:23:47   You find what you're looking for go to dot com and slash hello internet. [TS]

00:23:53   So I know you came from us and remember you get a free audiobook when you sign on for their thirty day trial today. [TS]

00:23:59   Thanks. Sponsoring us that's portable dot com slash. [TS]

00:24:07   I just want to share a little moment I had with you and it was a really it was a nothing moment. [TS]

00:24:13   Well I think it will speak to you in some way. [TS]

00:24:17   They of course basically I had I've been filming all this stuff on all my various cameras including like the high speed [TS]

00:24:27   slow motion camera that create these enormous files that take days to process [TS]

00:24:32   and I've actually got a second computer in a corner that just processes those files because for various reasons so I [TS]

00:24:39   have plugged in all the high speed camera and and all these files were processing [TS]

00:24:45   and then over my main computer I had all my rushes from that day's filming or going into the computer [TS]

00:24:51   and at the same time the computer was processing some other videos from one format to another that needed doing [TS]

00:24:58   and at the same time I was downloading a bunch of stuff that was being sent to me by someone else via Dropbox. [TS]

00:25:04   And while that was going on I think I was just surfing the internet or something [TS]

00:25:08   and I suddenly looked around at what was going on and how much work these machines were doing and I thought. [TS]

00:25:17   Computers a pretty amazing good. There are amazing. Yes they are but they are quite amazing and super important. [TS]

00:25:26   Like I remember I was once going for a walk [TS]

00:25:28   and I was closing a gate that had to be closed otherwise what she could escape [TS]

00:25:34   and someone had attached a rock to the chain that post the gate closed [TS]

00:25:43   and because that rock was tied on there the gate would always be pulled closed [TS]

00:25:46   but you couldn't leave it open by mistake and I looked at that [TS]

00:25:49   and I thought oh isn't that clever Isn't that amazing how clever humans [TS]

00:25:53   and I spent a good five ten minutes talking to people that this clever person who'd attached a rock to a chair. [TS]

00:26:00   Oh day I'm surrounded by these machines that are doing these remarkable remarkable things [TS]

00:26:06   and you just don't think about it I think that the rock on a chain [TS]

00:26:10   and the computers are kind of the same thing if you want to set up an environment that assists you in whatever it is [TS]

00:26:17   you want to do so I actually really love the rock on the chain as well because it's something of there are going to be [TS]

00:26:23   times when you're exiting the gate and you're you're occupied with something else or you're in a big hurry [TS]

00:26:26   and so you want to engineer the situation so that it is not possible for you to forget because then you have sheep [TS]

00:26:32   running all over the countryside [TS]

00:26:33   or whatever it is you know the Raptor gets loose because you didn't put the bolt in the way it's supposed to be like [TS]

00:26:38   well you shouldn't be able to leave the cage unbolted. [TS]

00:26:42   So I think that that stuff is great [TS]

00:26:43   and the computers are the same thing having having the machine to do work for you when when [TS]

00:26:50   when you're not actively using it is brilliant. [TS]

00:26:52   The sheer volume of work they do is amazing the lack just anyway so I sound like I've just come from I said like a [TS]

00:27:00   caveman know and like that sometimes you just forget and I like that just how how much they do and how quickly [TS]

00:27:07   but anyway I was just a little moment I had missed out on him [TS]

00:27:10   and I thought Grey would like this to be in the life of computers I do I too I am glad that you appreciate you know the [TS]

00:27:18   mechanical servants that we have in our lives the digital service that we have in our lives. [TS]

00:27:22   Say speaking of technology digital servants and assistants. [TS]

00:27:28   I'm going to fail you the other day and I didn't get through I got your voicemail. [TS]

00:27:34   It basically is just saying that leave a message. I don't listen to messages. [TS]

00:27:39   That's about right I like that I like that I was kind of it was hardcore you know. [TS]

00:27:44   Yet don't mess around with pleasantries just like you waste your time. [TS]

00:27:49   It's like it's like sending your name I don't Bob No doubt the e-mails at least have the possibility of catching my [TS]

00:27:55   attention but you may shake your voice my little in case I can't play my voice not basically say. As I see G.P. [TS]

00:28:01   Gray Don't leave a voicemail. [TS]

00:28:03   I do not check these messages and the thing that baffles me is that I know people still leave voice mails. [TS]

00:28:11   I don't understand who the people are who these voice mails because I don't listen to them. [TS]

00:28:15   I'm not kidding around and a little while ago [TS]

00:28:17   when I think it was in the latest version of I O S Apple introduced a feature where you can block messages [TS]

00:28:25   or text on a particular phone number so I actually blocked whatever number it is that my telephone service provider [TS]

00:28:33   uses to send me a notification to let me know that I have forty five unread voicemail messages. [TS]

00:28:38   So I go this is great so I can block this [TS]

00:28:39   and now I don't even have to do it once a week get some dumb text telling me that there's a message [TS]

00:28:43   or that I should listen to. So I know that my voicemail is basically just a black hole. [TS]

00:28:49   I things go in there and they never come out and everyone is like you know what if your wife gets abducted [TS]

00:28:54   or something [TS]

00:28:55   and she's trying to call you from the trunk of a car if she's being sped out to the countryside she sang How are you [TS]

00:29:01   darling tell me and. So first of all she probably sent me a text message. [TS]

00:29:07   But second of all I mean I have my phone on me all the time as she tries to call I can see that it's her calling again [TS]

00:29:15   with on the i Phone her you know her picture shows up and it's my wife so I know to take that call [TS]

00:29:21   but my phone blocks you know anything from unknown numbers and you know I don't I just don't even receive those [TS]

00:29:28   but of course the people in my life who want to be able to contact me know how to contact me if they're not going to [TS]

00:29:35   leave a voicemail message that's I get I don't know who these people are [TS]

00:29:39   and I guess I never will know who the people are who the voicemail messages I get all I know is that they have my phone [TS]

00:29:44   number but they don't know the ways that I actually want to be contacted and that's fine I guess. [TS]

00:29:51   No it's never caused any problems for me so I came across a video the other day. Which I just showed you today. [TS]

00:30:03   I will I will I will try and explain the video for the few people out there who have not seen [TS]

00:30:07   and they must only be a few because big watch twenty nine million times. [TS]

00:30:11   Just pull it up again even though it infuriated me. Yes twenty nine actually. [TS]

00:30:16   As of now it's now thirty million views they must've just updated it so I will try to summarize it before I let you off [TS]

00:30:25   the ledge. [TS]

00:30:28   I would it's it's a very clean cut young man in a sensible sweater and reciting a poem to I believe he wrote [TS]

00:30:38   and it was kind of one of those poems that your rockets go that is nice because it will drive him all the time while [TS]

00:30:44   you eat some lime sort of grimy palm and it's all about. [TS]

00:30:54   Sort of our current society's obsession with you know social media and always being on our computers and i Phones [TS]

00:31:01   and a sort of a video like this comes along every few months I guess that goes viral which is cool which is ironic that [TS]

00:31:08   they'd come along come along and go viral on social media. But anyway this this one went viral. [TS]

00:31:13   There was one there was one last year that was really good actually. [TS]

00:31:16   So what about that Gail that was sort of it hanging out with their friends [TS]

00:31:20   and doing all these activities in Iran was always on their phone. [TS]

00:31:22   Yes I mean I'll see if I can find that one I remember that when making the rounds [TS]

00:31:26   and I really like that one that one's good but this one's a bit odd and this one didn't do it for me so much. [TS]

00:31:34   But anyway if you know what I'm going to be completely honest with you I haven't even watched so far. [TS]

00:31:40   I would not get five minutes to a video I don't enjoy but I believe you did what you know. [TS]

00:31:44   Well well well to be clear about this you sent this to me [TS]

00:31:50   and said oh I really want you to watch this for today's program. [TS]

00:31:54   Now because I want to stay you know well I was stirred up partly because. [TS]

00:32:00   About three minutes into it I said something to you like I should I should pull up I support the messages right here [TS]

00:32:05   what I what I say to you I said the video is so insufferable. [TS]

00:32:10   Do I have to watch to the end it's already been three minutes and forty forty six seconds [TS]

00:32:15   and the video is five minutes long. And Hugh reply you're like oh I didn't even watch it at all. [TS]

00:32:23   You know so I just sent it to you I thought you should watch it [TS]

00:32:26   and I thought I like an idiot just assume that you sent me something to watch and that you would have watched it all [TS]

00:32:31   but you just you just wanted to pass it along to me [TS]

00:32:33   and neglected to mention that you yourself didn't watch it so I was super irritated by that. [TS]

00:32:39   I think I got the general gist in the general case is you know where technology is an illusion [TS]

00:32:44   and let's end the confusion and delusion and let's all get together and hold hands [TS]

00:32:53   and get our heads out of the screens and smell the flowers and touch a baby and stuff. [TS]

00:33:01   Yeah but like I [TS]

00:33:02   and like I don't disagree with the sentiment like I sometimes feel really down about how much time I spend on computers [TS]

00:33:08   and social media. I'm like you I probably I know you I mean. [TS]

00:33:12   I'm prob this video should appeal to me more than you because I do feel that life has become too skewed in that [TS]

00:33:20   direction. But this video a twenty nine million. Tell me what you thought about it. [TS]

00:33:28   Well I just assumed that you were one hundred percent on board with this nonsense I'm actually kind of surprised that [TS]

00:33:33   it irritated even you but you have to the basic I mean will put it in the show notes you know good luck people. [TS]

00:33:40   You can watch it but the basic premise of the video is exactly that [TS]

00:33:43   and people spent too much time on social media blah blah blah. [TS]

00:33:46   And there is the Romney poem and the video that's going on in the background shows people on their phones. [TS]

00:33:52   But there's a kind of story I guess that that's cut through it which is this guy using. [TS]

00:34:00   If it shows a guy who instead of using his phone is trying to find directions somewhere [TS]

00:34:06   and of course a pretty girl walks by and he asks her for directions and then they skip to them suddenly having dinner. [TS]

00:34:14   I guess it's implied that she was going to go. Yeah there was a story. [TS]

00:34:19   So if you talk to real humans you can write like a like a pretty girl will suddenly end up having dinner with you if [TS]

00:34:25   you just ask her for directions which first of all I just think instead of using Google Maps using Google Maps I mean [TS]

00:34:33   so many things wrong with that but I mean how many women are going to presumably walk a stranger to their location [TS]

00:34:40   and then end up having dinner with them that night I think the chances of that are pretty low so I don't like the [TS]

00:34:46   framing mechanism just even to start with for the video. [TS]

00:34:49   And also again the the idea that there are only people in the real world right that there aren't people on the Internet [TS]

00:34:56   Well I think I mentioned before on the show but I found my wife through the Internet. [TS]

00:35:01   I would I would never have met her were it not for the Internet we had many a digital communication before we ever met [TS]

00:35:07   in person. [TS]

00:35:08   So the idea that I go the only way you can find true love is just by random chance walking around in the street asking [TS]

00:35:14   strangers for directions and then being a total creepy person [TS]

00:35:17   and having them walk you to that place long enough so that you can get to know each other [TS]

00:35:22   and then she invites you over for dinner I guess in this fantasy land of how human interactions go now. [TS]

00:35:28   The framing device is just off. [TS]

00:35:30   So I think even you must realize that eventually you have to supplement this cyber relationship with like a physical [TS]

00:35:37   meeting women you bit the bullet one day and said I'm going to make this woman before I actually marry her. [TS]

00:35:42   Yeah obviously obviously yes [TS]

00:35:44   and that's that's the thing that I hate about a video like this is is is is the whole premise the whole premise through [TS]

00:35:51   something like this is that our technology is not any good because it separates us from each other [TS]

00:35:57   and I think that premise is obvious. [TS]

00:36:00   Yes Leigh wrong there is there is a totally reasonable argument to be made about the amount of time that people spend [TS]

00:36:07   using technology that's a completely reasonable argument. [TS]

00:36:11   But but this idea that the premise of the video is like you know go on [TS]

00:36:15   and it ends with with the the takeaway message is the next time you go outside Be sure to leave your i Phone behind so [TS]

00:36:23   you can experience the real world. [TS]

00:36:26   What are you crazy who is can kick you that was going to do that unless I'm intentionally I don't know going to some [TS]

00:36:35   isolation retreat for the weekend which I would also say that that can be an interesting experience to do there are [TS]

00:36:40   there are places you can go that are intentionally separated from technology I think that's a super cool experience [TS]

00:36:46   but I'm still going to take my phone right on in my car to get to that place for so many numerous reasons it's just. [TS]

00:36:55   These things just make me mad to make me super mad [TS]

00:36:57   and I also notice how I mean there's no way he could have known this was going to be watched as many times as they [TS]

00:37:03   marched [TS]

00:37:04   and I have noted that he has activated advertising on his one video on You Tube so I bet he's about to start spending a [TS]

00:37:11   whole lot more time making You Tube videos. [TS]

00:37:12   Yes probably was as uploaded recently I think I think I think he's about to enter the April twenty fifth. [TS]

00:37:19   Oh so this is one like I guess now a record it's been two and a half three weeks. [TS]

00:37:24   This guy thought I bet he's not going to think it's such an illusion delusion [TS]

00:37:28   when he starts getting a big check from you getting thirty million views that like a third of my whole You Tube career [TS]

00:37:38   but so anyway it just makes me mad and I think now the first one that I liked a while back [TS]

00:37:47   and it's been it's been a long time [TS]

00:37:48   but I'm going to presume based on the kinds of things the past me would like that that video was more reasonable about [TS]

00:37:54   it and I think that I don't know I don't know if you experience a super often. [TS]

00:38:00   But I will I will judge people harshly if we're in a social situation [TS]

00:38:05   and someone is always distracted by their phone big you know partly because OK it's taken a whole bunch of effort for [TS]

00:38:13   everybody to come out and like and we're in a place and if you are the person who is always on their phone [TS]

00:38:18   or you know you the person like posting photographs of the thing that we're at right now. [TS]

00:38:24   Yeah I do kind of judge that a little bit I think if you're socializing with other people it's time to put your phone [TS]

00:38:30   away [TS]

00:38:31   and make a conscious effort to be present with the people that you're there with I think that's the point of going out. [TS]

00:38:38   If you didn't want to be there with the people then you shouldn't have gone and you should have stayed home [TS]

00:38:43   and that's you know that's perfectly fine. [TS]

00:38:45   So I make it a very very conscious effort that if I'm if I'm out with people to not have my phone out [TS]

00:38:50   and not be checking the phone and I think that that's that's good [TS]

00:38:54   and that's a reasonable argument that you're going to leave your phone at home. [TS]

00:39:00   Is is just ludicrous [TS]

00:39:02   or that that the phone hasn't helped your life in a numerous into so many ways I mean that's that's the thing that gets [TS]

00:39:09   me is that people don't have i Phones. For no reason. [TS]

00:39:15   People have all of these smartphones [TS]

00:39:17   and all of these devices because they are making a judgment that their life is way better with them than without them. [TS]

00:39:25   So that's that's why it's I can't stand these things where I think all Apple has made all of us sad by the magical [TS]

00:39:31   wondrous things that they have created which we all voluntarily use every day because they're great. [TS]

00:39:37   It just it just gives me it's you know I just I mean [TS]

00:39:41   but like you said I mean I'm probably more susceptible to that message [TS]

00:39:44   but I kind of can't believe it that you're on my side in this argument to be well. [TS]

00:39:49   Well I think I think he lost me with his style. Like the like. [TS]

00:39:55   Whereas the other one the one that was good from a year ago or so I like that. [TS]

00:40:00   Kind of cool and well Sharpton like I was sort of jealous of the filmmaking [TS]

00:40:05   and thought Yeah this is really cool we may resist one was kind of a bit like you know I thought it was a bit twenty in [TS]

00:40:11   a day. It didn't do it for me. [TS]

00:40:14   So you know I'm not I'm not completely hard core [TS]

00:40:19   but I do think there is you know you know I think a bit differently to you on this [TS]

00:40:23   and we will do spend too much time on the Internet [TS]

00:40:25   and I may more than anyone that is super open to the argument that there are there are times to put technology away [TS]

00:40:35   and I think many years ago I mean the company made us want to try to get this right I think it was called The Prince [TS]

00:40:42   Albert hotel tell. Listen to the fast typing Wow I wasn't even looking at the keyboard when that was going on. [TS]

00:40:53   How do you know what buttons you are pressing. Well I have learned to touch type. [TS]

00:40:58   That has happened so I knew I didn't quite get that right I was just looking it up [TS]

00:41:01   and it was the Prince of Wales Hotel. [TS]

00:41:04   Just when the name people want to look it up [TS]

00:41:06   and it is in an amazingly gorgeous place which is this national park that spans both Canada [TS]

00:41:12   and the United States called the Waterton glacier International Peace Park. [TS]

00:41:18   It is a stunningly beautiful place if you are ever if you ever in the area you need to to take a trip to see it [TS]

00:41:24   and I happen to just stumble upon this place [TS]

00:41:26   when I was doing a road trip across America I didn't really intend to go there I just sort of ended up there [TS]

00:41:31   and the hotel makes a big point of the fact that they don't have why fight they don't have internet. [TS]

00:41:39   How can they get cell phone reception at that hotel and that part of the experience [TS]

00:41:44   and I think I ended up staying there for two or three days [TS]

00:41:48   and I thought it was just great you know I love that kind of conscious decision that we're going to have this space [TS]

00:41:54   where we remove technology and they had a downstairs dining area where they encouraged everybody to come. [TS]

00:42:00   Look those people here and we want to try to encourage you to talk to other people in this setting and I did [TS]

00:42:05   and it was it was really nice it was really great so there there is definitely benefits to conscious exclusion of [TS]

00:42:12   technology from certain areas. [TS]

00:42:14   But the idea that all of life is made miserable by technology is just obviously ludicrous. [TS]

00:42:19   So anyway that's that's that to the actual border run through the grounds not between the two countries. [TS]

00:42:25   Well not for this that hotel was very clearly on the Canada side [TS]

00:42:30   but there is basically it is a stunning forest mountain range glacier area and both the United States [TS]

00:42:38   and Canada thought that this mountain range would make a great national park [TS]

00:42:43   and then at some point they realized oh we both have these national parks that are butting up right against each other [TS]

00:42:48   on our border. [TS]

00:42:49   So why don't we make this like an officially managed area as an international Park so it's very very cool [TS]

00:42:56   and you should go check it out if you're ever in the area. The elephant in the pod cast that we have not yet discussed. [TS]

00:43:05   You put in here but you know that. Yes yes. [TS]

00:43:08   We're recording this on Thursday night and on Monday I put a video out [TS]

00:43:15   and there was a there was a brief glorious moment on the grave verses Brady Web site where it showed me as having put [TS]

00:43:24   out a video and you as having nothing at all [TS]

00:43:28   and so I had to screenshot that for myself to preserve this rare moment because normally it says that you have released [TS]

00:43:35   twenty seven videos since the last time I released a video so I was I was happy to see that counter at least briefly [TS]

00:43:42   reset with with the real video. So when we talk about your video I do have a few issues with that Web site. [TS]

00:43:49   Go girl like like I enjoy that it was made and like I get a chuckle from it [TS]

00:43:54   but I think it manages to be unfair to both of us which is quite amazing. [TS]

00:44:00   It manages to portray both of us very unfairly and that's a pretty special. [TS]

00:44:05   Now do you actually think and how do you think it through all of us and fairly well. [TS]

00:44:12   How long if you go look at it but it's what you think it treats you unfairly. [TS]

00:44:21   Well I guess it maybe takes me momentarily but Tracy will be unfairly because it makes it makes you look. [TS]

00:44:28   Unproductive and makes it look like you know he's really making videos [TS]

00:44:33   and trying to educate the world while you're stagnating. [TS]

00:44:38   Right that's one way you could put it which is completely unfair because of the completely different nature of their [TS]

00:44:43   videos and the way they're made and the production cycles so I think that's unfair on you and then. [TS]

00:44:50   I think it's unfair on me because it makes me look like I'm going to video as well your lovingly crafting videos in a [TS]

00:44:58   you know in your studio but also also you know having these few accounts and having having the average of you count. [TS]

00:45:06   Obviously my average we can't is very very low compared to yours partly because you have a much bigger more successful [TS]

00:45:11   channel but also because my number number filed is pretty much the same number of subscribers. [TS]

00:45:19   Now then you were there [TS]

00:45:21   but also you know my average is being dragged down by all these other little videos I make for these little niche [TS]

00:45:26   projects so I think that average is slightly deceiving figure [TS]

00:45:32   but then the total number of yes' which obviously then puts me up probably higher than you again I think it is also it [TS]

00:45:38   is also unfair because you know I have all these different projects and different things I'm working on [TS]

00:45:44   and some of them have help [TS]

00:45:45   and you're just you know so I think I don't know I think it's a bit unfair I don't buy that [TS]

00:45:51   but I love that it was made and I do look at it and I and I get a laugh and I think it's a good joke to have going [TS]

00:45:58   but I think it's. [TS]

00:46:00   I think it is mostly funny [TS]

00:46:01   and I think I think that anybody who is enthusiastic enough to go to that Web site like that they know that it's funny. [TS]

00:46:08   They understand how different our videos are the love I do love the little Easter eggs that when [TS]

00:46:13   when a new video is on there [TS]

00:46:15   and if you count to has frozen a three I won so you can't just throw one in there that actually made that a hyperlink [TS]

00:46:21   to my three A one video that explains why he's stick it through [TS]

00:46:24   and if you notice that I didn't notice the hyperlink it didn't as a hyperlink. Yeah I am. [TS]

00:46:29   I'm forever envious of your three o one video because I had something in the works on that [TS]

00:46:34   and then you beat me to it [TS]

00:46:36   and so now you get to be the definitive video about why video stop at three hundred one views so well done well done [TS]

00:46:42   for you on that one. [TS]

00:46:43   You shouldn't you should you should still make one because you do it better [TS]

00:46:47   and would be really cool to watch right now [TS]

00:46:49   but I think I think I think yours is good I think there is no reason to duplicate as you but you win this round [TS]

00:46:56   but I did not notice that there was a hyperlink on the three o one so that's good that's a nice touch. [TS]

00:47:00   Let's touch on it is that was that was that was nice. I really want you to make it through one video it was torture. [TS]

00:47:07   Anyway anyway let's this is that stop talking about that let's talk about your new video which you put out this week on [TS]

00:47:15   net neutrality and which I've watched a couple of times and enjoyed very much. I thought it was excellent. [TS]

00:47:23   Tell me about it. Well you know so me to very quickly tell me the story. [TS]

00:47:29   Yeah this was a video that I think honestly took took some some weeks off the end of my life because this was this was [TS]

00:47:39   under just the most unusual group of circumstances so there's the short version of this. [TS]

00:47:50   I was working on something a main video for this month which was not the net neutrality thing [TS]

00:47:56   but I don't know what it was I think or maybe I saw something on Reddit or first. [TS]

00:48:00   Some reason net neutrality was just on the top of my mind. [TS]

00:48:03   On Thursday nights the Thursday before the video I remember going to bed [TS]

00:48:09   and it was just it was kind of just cycling in my brain isn't falling to sleep or thinking about net neutrality [TS]

00:48:13   and so then in the on Friday morning [TS]

00:48:17   when I went to my usual work routine I thought let me just let me just poke around [TS]

00:48:21   and research the net neutrality thing a little bit I can feel my brain is interested in this this might be a good time [TS]

00:48:25   to work on it. [TS]

00:48:27   And Friday morning I discovered that this whole news in while recording this right now that in America the F.C.C. [TS]

00:48:35   Which is the government body that kind of regulates all of the stuff of Internet and telecommunications [TS]

00:48:40   and everything in America. [TS]

00:48:42   They announced that they're going to have some announcements related to net neutrality on the fifteenth of this month [TS]

00:48:50   and so I discover that on Friday morning the calendar is just going at the right because one is and so that would be. [TS]

00:49:00   Second I guess. Yeah so that was Friday morning with the second. Yeah and. [TS]

00:49:07   Basically I thought oh God this is the this is the best time ever to make this video that I've been kind of thinking [TS]

00:49:13   about for a while like I had a bunch of notes already on net neutrality if I'm ever going to do it I have to do it [TS]

00:49:19   right now but it's going to be an advocacy video so that means I need to get it out as soon as possible. [TS]

00:49:25   And for various strategic trying to hit the news cycle reasons that that meant like OK I have to get this out on either [TS]

00:49:32   Monday or Tuesday at the absolute latest I know in my normal production cycle that is not really possible. [TS]

00:49:42   But I was thinking OK I I do already know a lot about this topic. [TS]

00:49:47   I don't have to do a bunch of research on this so I can cut all of that out. [TS]

00:49:51   And this kind of thing I think most people who watch videos don't notice that it's a big deal for me. [TS]

00:49:57   I stylistically have two different videos. Our video is where I'm talking to the audience directly. [TS]

00:50:04   Those are the videos that usually start out where I say hello internet. [TS]

00:50:07   And then I have my what I think of as the main videos were stylistically I don't use the word I [TS]

00:50:13   and I might make oblique references to my thoughts but I very intentionally don't ever use the word I. [TS]

00:50:19   Yeah and the ones where I talk to the audience are way easier to write. [TS]

00:50:23   I was thinking OK if I do this is as a first person centred video and I don't need to do the research. [TS]

00:50:31   Is it possible to turn it around and so I basically spent all of Friday trying to write a rough draft for the script [TS]

00:50:37   and I came to the conclusion that if I don't sleep I might be able to get this out by Monday which is which is what [TS]

00:50:44   happened. [TS]

00:50:45   But just to add in the thing that made this a little bit more difficult [TS]

00:50:49   and it was just the worst timing in the world was that. Both on Monday. [TS]

00:50:55   My wife was leaving for a trip where she's going to be gone for about a week [TS]

00:51:00   and so the idea of having to say I'm not going to be around because I need to spend all of my time on this project [TS]

00:51:07   right before you're going to go somewhere is not ideal. That's not good. Yes not good. [TS]

00:51:12   And then you add into the fact that I had family visiting from America at this exact same time [TS]

00:51:18   and so I had to say the same thing that oh I know you flew across an ocean to see me [TS]

00:51:24   but I need to take three days to not be available because I need to go do a thing on the Internet. [TS]

00:51:32   So like this project was both incredibly rushed and under terribly difficult circumstances. [TS]

00:51:38   But I did it because it is it is a topic that I super care about like there are very few topics where I would look at [TS]

00:51:46   that factor. All of these decisions and say but I should still make this video anyway. [TS]

00:51:51   I think almost any other topic I would say I do not have the time or the resources [TS]

00:51:55   or just like the sanity to be able to ignore my family in this time to be able to. [TS]

00:52:00   So it was it was a very costly video and a whole bunch of waves. [TS]

00:52:03   And yes I ended up on Sunday I did all of the animations and most of the audio [TS]

00:52:10   and I basically woke up Sunday at about seven am and I went to bed at three am and then I cut up Monday morning [TS]

00:52:16   and finished up a couple final things and so I was not in great shape that day [TS]

00:52:22   and I feel like I'm still slightly recovering from this this ridiculous burst of work which is not a sustainable way to [TS]

00:52:30   work so it was it was very exhausting from start to finish. It only took three days just to do that once I wake up. [TS]

00:52:36   Yeah and then my rest for the other four days and you could have a weekly video to be brilliant. [TS]

00:52:43   Now that is a a once maybe twice a year kind of kind of thing [TS]

00:52:49   and I get only under incredibly exceptional circumstances [TS]

00:52:53   and only for topics I know already that is that even possible. [TS]

00:52:56   So I love you Internet which is why I made that video I think this is super important [TS]

00:53:00   but there's no way I could do normal videos like that and still be alive by the time I was fifty or so. [TS]

00:53:07   So let's talk about net neutrality for him [TS]

00:53:10   and obviously I'm imagining almost everyone who listens will of say New video [TS]

00:53:15   and if they haven't well maybe they should post now Mucha. [TS]

00:53:19   Yeah I was actually wondering and dear listener who hears my voice right now you can answer this question. [TS]

00:53:25   I was kind of wondering if there's anybody who listens to this who doesn't watch both of our channels [TS]

00:53:31   or at the very least one of our channels a few very curious [TS]

00:53:35   and they read it if there is anybody who came upon this pod cast in some other way but didn't didn't either. [TS]

00:53:42   No your channel or my channel before that. [TS]

00:53:44   I'm just curious to know if that person exists if you exist and you're listening to me right now. [TS]

00:53:49   Thomas please leave a comment in the Reddit and we'll see how that goes and kind of areas [TS]

00:53:54   but I had also just did a video which is excellent which I'm sure you might mention and would definitely. [TS]

00:54:00   So I think grain I had missed ten grains but I saw that today as well and that's also very good. [TS]

00:54:06   I discovered his video after I spent my whole day writing the scripts [TS]

00:54:11   and then the first time I checked my computer email on the things I saw I was angry [TS]

00:54:15   and upload a video so I thought oh call them if you let me see what Hank has done [TS]

00:54:19   and then he asked for my heart upload her video I think I guess I'm not. [TS]

00:54:25   Yeah I am really I'm still out of it I think it was yesterday [TS]

00:54:29   but yeah so just super brief for you know for the record on this show. [TS]

00:54:36   Net neutrality is basically it's this issue about what amount of control does the company that you by your Internet [TS]

00:54:47   have over what comes through the wires and net neutrality is the principle that they should basically have no control. [TS]

00:54:56   But all of the data should be treated equally and that whatever X. [TS]

00:55:01   Whatever web site you are attempting to access that should just come through your Internet cable at the maximum. [TS]

00:55:08   Technically possible speed or the maximum speed for whatever package you have paid for [TS]

00:55:13   and that there shouldn't there shouldn't be any ability to change that. [TS]

00:55:18   So that that is the principle of net neutrality in a nutshell treat all data coming through the pipe equally So this is [TS]

00:55:25   sort of your internet provider country some deal where they say we'll give you a super fast Netflix [TS]

00:55:31   but your youtube videos will be sly things by that in the US [TS]

00:55:36   and in other parts around the world companies Internet service providers some of them anyway are are trying to get that [TS]

00:55:44   rule removed because if you are the person who's actually maintaining those Internet connections you want the ability [TS]

00:55:53   to influence the traffic that is going through those wires and you have a as a company you have a huge number of. [TS]

00:56:00   Reason that you would want to do this. [TS]

00:56:02   But and [TS]

00:56:03   but I would say what I would assume is one of the primary motive factors motivating factors is simply just money. [TS]

00:56:10   If you control like the final wire going into somebody's house [TS]

00:56:15   and you have the ability to artificially slow down various Web sites unless people either the consumer who is already [TS]

00:56:21   paying for the Internet pays more for the speedy you to package or you know [TS]

00:56:27   or as has happened in the United States where the Internet service providers have charged just sounds so awful [TS]

00:56:34   but they have charged other companies like Netflix additional money in order to just let Netflix through the wire as [TS]

00:56:43   it's supposed to go. It's like holding data for ransom isn't it. [TS]

00:56:47   Yeah it's basically like holding data for data for ransom [TS]

00:56:50   and there are topics that are just basically impossible to talk about in terms of what they really are. [TS]

00:57:01   Go to Wikipedia and read the article about how the Internet works. [TS]

00:57:05   You have all of these complicated connections between you know Tier one Tier two Tier three providers backbones peering [TS]

00:57:13   exchanges with all this at these huge levels of complexity [TS]

00:57:16   and I was speaking with a few people to try to sort out some of the stuff in this segment if you're not a network [TS]

00:57:23   engineer. [TS]

00:57:25   It's almost impossible to talk about this in the terms that it actually is [TS]

00:57:30   and so you see as in my own video as in via hearts video as it Hanks video people talk in terms of analogies [TS]

00:57:36   and they use the usual analogy is like a road and people are talking about trucks and delivering packages [TS]

00:57:41   and all the rest of that [TS]

00:57:42   and it's because there's no other way to talk about this you can't have this discussion on the actual level of what it [TS]

00:57:50   is and then all of the arguments kind of boil get get messed up [TS]

00:57:55   when you're arguing over the analogy because there are so many reasons that cars on a road. [TS]

00:58:00   Nothing like the way the Internet works that it's very confusing [TS]

00:58:04   and it's one of the reasons why I absolutely hate it [TS]

00:58:06   but the Internet service providers are often talking about building fast lanes you know like oh we want to build fast [TS]

00:58:14   lanes for the Internet which sounds awesome except that [TS]

00:58:17   when you try to root through the technical details what they really mean is like oh well slow down everything [TS]

00:58:24   and then the normal lane becomes the fast lane and you know everything else is going through the slow lane [TS]

00:58:29   and it's simply fast by comparison. [TS]

00:58:31   But it's it's just such a complicated issue [TS]

00:58:35   and I have I have I'm just incredibly deep disappointments with the video that I produced [TS]

00:58:42   but I'm relatively happy with it given the time constraints [TS]

00:58:47   and given the kind of goal from my perspective which was to talk about net neutrality in the most general possible [TS]

00:58:55   terms not specifically related to the issues going on in America. [TS]

00:59:00   And in a way that might hopefully give a person unfamiliar with the technology some notion of why it is bad. [TS]

00:59:10   So the those were basically my goals for that I was not attempting to explain more of the details of what's going on [TS]

00:59:17   and for that I think via heart we actually were talking via heart is spotted me on Twitter asking a particular question [TS]

00:59:25   and that the couple times of I've talked by heart in person. [TS]

00:59:30   It's just creepy but sometimes we have the exact same thoughts about something [TS]

00:59:34   or like we know what the other person is thinking [TS]

00:59:36   and via hearts on the Ask a relatively innocuous question on Twitter why was asking people for help with something [TS]

00:59:41   and basically sent me a message a minute later she said I know exactly what you're working on you're working on a net [TS]

00:59:46   neutrality video and I am too. Yes by heart you can read my mind. [TS]

00:59:51   So we she showed me her script you know and we had a little bit of a discussion about it [TS]

00:59:56   but if you want a video that does a much better job of talking. [TS]

01:00:00   Still an analogy but much more about like what is what are the details of this [TS]

01:00:04   and what is happening in America right now via hard video is a much better video than mine for that mine I think is a [TS]

01:00:10   much more general one that I hope will be applicable in future situations if if net neutrality problems come up [TS]

01:00:18   elsewhere. [TS]

01:00:18   I was I was having a think about not discussing this [TS]

01:00:21   and because implicitly sometimes my role here is to be a bit of a devil's advocate just to kind of nudge you a bit to [TS]

01:00:28   find out more about what you think. [TS]

01:00:30   But this really is a case of where being the devil's advocate is being an advocate of the devil in a way because [TS]

01:00:37   because it's hard to it's hard to kind of reconcile the opposing position. [TS]

01:00:43   And like I was doing it to myself in my head saying I could ask radius where I could put this to him [TS]

01:00:48   but I was just like my argument was falling apart before I even came out of my mouth because I kind of. [TS]

01:00:55   I think we're pretty much in agreement [TS]

01:00:57   and like no one you know that you trust is really important to me for my job to you. I will try. [TS]

01:01:05   Well if I before you even try just to simply say that I did get a whole bunch of comments both on You Tube [TS]

01:01:11   and on Reddit where people were asking you know what what the other what the other side to this [TS]

01:01:16   or you know why you know what why would a government even consider doing this [TS]

01:01:21   and most of the time I would try to explain that if there was some kind of reasonable argument to be had on the other [TS]

01:01:27   side. But there are there are definitely times when there there is no reasonable argument to be had on the other side. [TS]

01:01:38   I can understand why the company wants to do it [TS]

01:01:41   but there's no argument to be made for why it is good for either society or the Internet as a whole is my position. [TS]

01:01:47   So now I will let you devil's advocate after I've put that in ahead of time so I guess the first question like the most [TS]

01:01:55   fundamental question to this is is data. [TS]

01:02:00   And like access to the Internet is a fundamental right like you know I like having air to breathe [TS]

01:02:08   and to a lesser extent access to our water. I know there are a lot of people who don't have that. [TS]

01:02:16   How fundamental right is this because a lot of the chest beating that goes on is like how dare you how dare you slide [TS]

01:02:23   this one down and give me this one fast I want to hold him. I guess the question is will hang on. [TS]

01:02:28   We have this real sense of entitlement about the Internet and data [TS]

01:02:33   and access to it is it is it like a robot you know it should be just expect to be able to have it in the first place I [TS]

01:02:40   think I think you can reasonably call it right in the same way electricity is a right. [TS]

01:02:47   Once your society is at a certain level of wealth that it doesn't it doesn't make sense to deprive your citizens of. [TS]

01:02:57   A plumbing or electricity or internet. If your G.D.P. Per capita is above the amount X. [TS]

01:03:04   So it is not a fundamental right in the same way that you might say they are [TS]

01:03:10   or that one might make an argument for food being kind of fundamental to being human. Obviously the Internet is not. [TS]

01:03:17   But if your society is wealthy enough it's just crazy not to ensure that everybody has access to the Internet. [TS]

01:03:23   So that's a little bit the way I would look at it. [TS]

01:03:26   But the entitlement thing is interesting because you know the Internet works very differently in countries around the [TS]

01:03:32   world and until very recently the U.K. [TS]

01:03:39   Did not have any kind of net neutrality laws and everything was basically sort of fine with U.K. Internet. [TS]

01:03:48   But the reason things were OK with U.K. Internet has to do with competition regulations. So basically in the U.K. [TS]

01:03:56   For almost everybody you have a genuine choice. Internet service providers. [TS]

01:04:02   I think I think in our latest flat [TS]

01:04:03   when I went to look there was something like seven companies that we could buy our Internet from if we wanted to. [TS]

01:04:09   And so this is Internet Neutrality matters a lot more in a place like the United States where almost everybody has no [TS]

01:04:19   choice with their Internet service provider [TS]

01:04:21   and now this I mean this has to do a lot with regulations in particular countries [TS]

01:04:25   and I sort of don't want to get into that. [TS]

01:04:27   But but I would just say that net neutrality it's I think it is very important. [TS]

01:04:33   But there are circumstances under which it is it is not necessarily the most important thing. [TS]

01:04:40   If you have genuine competition between Internet providers you can do OK without net neutrality because they all act as [TS]

01:04:47   a check on each other. [TS]

01:04:48   But yeah I swear America sometimes tries to make sure it does the worst of everything [TS]

01:04:53   and then combine it together to make it even worse than anything could be in a kind of amazingly awesome badness [TS]

01:05:00   synergy. [TS]

01:05:01   And so both having no competition [TS]

01:05:04   and then not having any kind of regulations to ensure that the person you're a monopoly provider does a halfway decent [TS]

01:05:11   job is just the worst of both worlds or just it just makes it absolutely terrible so. [TS]

01:05:15   So I think that's where yeah that's I think that's the real nub of the matter there because the one thing I think you [TS]

01:05:22   know from from our discussions over over time is I know you're a big believer in market forces [TS]

01:05:28   and you know things working out that commercial forces often allowing things to work out. [TS]

01:05:35   So part of me was thinking you know what square I worried about like Surely the right thing you know if someone's [TS]

01:05:41   trying to make money they're allowed to make money and if if if they can be undercut they'll be undercut [TS]

01:05:47   and you know you know the rest. But this is not obviously this is not the case. [TS]

01:05:52   My experience of the engine is the same as yours in the U.K. [TS]

01:05:55   In that you know I shop around to get get the best deal I can. [TS]

01:06:00   And then you point out that this is not the case in the USA and Europe. [TS]

01:06:04   Yeah I would just say that I think markets are a particular kind of tool [TS]

01:06:11   and they're not universally applicable in every situation you just have to think about what situations do. [TS]

01:06:17   Do markets work best under and for for a situation where you have to dig up streets [TS]

01:06:27   and lay cables in the ground is a huge start of cost to becoming an Internet service provider. [TS]

01:06:33   The barrier to entry is so large as to effectively exclude any kind of genuine competition [TS]

01:06:40   and that that can be the problem with the Internet so unless you live in a place that has laws that say. [TS]

01:06:46   You know we're going to eventually make sure that all of these cables any company can use [TS]

01:06:50   and figure out a way to make sure that works for everybody. [TS]

01:06:54   If you don't have that you just you can't start up a competitor Internet service provider if you have like call me [TS]

01:07:02   when you've dug the roads to every dug ditches to every house in America and laid fiber optic cable inside of them. [TS]

01:07:08   But once you've once you've done that let me know and then you can start if your internet service provider [TS]

01:07:13   and I think I think a great example of this is Google in America who is starting up an Internet service provider [TS]

01:07:18   but it is taking years and it is growing very slowly [TS]

01:07:22   and from everything I read it is just insanely costly to actually do [TS]

01:07:28   and they know they can only do it in relatively small cities because of the A bit like having to dig up the roads [TS]

01:07:34   and all these are things like Can you imagine a city like New York saying OK we're going to shut down the roads for a [TS]

01:07:38   few months as we allow a whole bunch of companies to lay down competitive cables underneath the street. [TS]

01:07:44   I mean it just can't happen as you could. [TS]

01:07:47   There's almost no way it would ever be worth shutting down New York for something like that. [TS]

01:07:51   So there are situations that are with which market forces just cannot possibly work [TS]

01:07:56   and this is definitely one of them so. [TS]

01:08:00   It's it's a tricky situation and you know I just think again it's so it's so hard to explain it [TS]

01:08:07   but I mentioned it really briefly in the in the video [TS]

01:08:10   but I had a way longer section that I thought I just I had to cut out so I could possibly do it in the allocated time [TS]

01:08:17   but I really think that the best comparison for net neutrality is is not the roads but it is the electrical grid [TS]

01:08:25   and that we have an electrical grid that in every country in the world when you [TS]

01:08:31   when you plug something in your house the electricity company doesn't have any say over how you're using that [TS]

01:08:38   electricity on your end. [TS]

01:08:41   You buy a certain amount of electricity just like you buy a certain amount of data from your internet service provider. [TS]

01:08:47   And the electricity company it like is none of their business what you do with that. [TS]

01:08:50   If you're running it you know light bulbs or computers [TS]

01:08:52   or anything else that's not there that's not their job their job is to deliver electricity [TS]

01:08:58   and it's a similar situation where we have these regulations that don't allow the electricity company to charge you [TS]

01:09:04   differently for different things in your house because the barrier to entry for starting up an electrical company [TS]

01:09:11   building a gigantic power station running electrical lines all over the country is just is just too big right that can [TS]

01:09:18   never be a competitive market [TS]

01:09:20   and even if in theory it could be we wouldn't want dozens of electrical wires running into everybody's house. [TS]

01:09:26   Only one set of which is ever active at a time because that's the company that people have happened to buy their [TS]

01:09:31   electricity from. [TS]

01:09:32   So I really think that that that is the best comparison to what the situation is with the Internet [TS]

01:09:38   and it becomes more understandable about why we have to ensure there are certain protections in this in this area [TS]

01:09:45   because it's just competition is just never going to happen on its own. [TS]

01:09:50   In this environment so and your thing [TS]

01:09:52   and you're creating data like electricity this kind of anonymous same local stuff. [TS]

01:10:00   But yet flows in it a commodity is what it is you know it's you know one watt is just as good as one bit on the [TS]

01:10:07   internet is my perspective on it [TS]

01:10:09   and the electricity company I guess the difference there was the electricity company can do deals with the electricity [TS]

01:10:16   generators and you know there's a bit of wheeling [TS]

01:10:18   and dealing going on there you know by this by this many megawatts this year at this price. [TS]

01:10:24   XETRA And that's kind of isn't that kind of what the space is starting today they're starting to say hang on let's [TS]

01:10:31   start doing deals with the people generating the data. [TS]

01:10:34   Netflix and things like that that the only way they can monetize data is is the amount of it [TS]

01:10:41   or the speed of its flow because it's not what you can do it do it with a power station you can't do the same deal with [TS]

01:10:48   just the internet. [TS]

01:10:50   Well there's a whole the thing that's weird about this which I think is a strange framing issue [TS]

01:10:55   but it's people talking about Netflix's data for example in the United States taking up a huge amount of the bandwidth. [TS]

01:11:02   Yeah but that's. That's not Netflix is data that is the data that I am trying to download from Netflix. [TS]

01:11:11   We see internet connection that I paid for like you are purchasing access to the Internet from your I S P. [TS]

01:11:20   The very notion that that Netflix is sort of getting in the way is just letting you know it's like Netflix isn't [TS]

01:11:28   flooding the pipes. [TS]

01:11:30   People are are are sucking data out of Netflix with the kitten with the connection that they have paid for [TS]

01:11:37   and also the thing that I find particularly galling about this is that the way the data flows on the Internet is that [TS]

01:11:45   you have times it travels like ninety percent of the way to your house through networks that are just unrelated to the [TS]

01:11:51   actual person providing you with the Internet at the very end. [TS]

01:11:56   So they're charging you right to just basically get from the street to your. Front door sometimes where they go. [TS]

01:12:02   Suddenly it's a huge problem that we have to deliver that quick data Like hey guy this came across a continent [TS]

01:12:08   sometimes maybe to get to me [TS]

01:12:10   and you're telling me that suddenly once it gets to my front door it's shockingly expensive to let it get the last [TS]

01:12:15   thirty feet I mean that's a little a little rich. So that's a problem that I have with this. [TS]

01:12:20   This framing of the issue that like Netflix is slowing down the Internet [TS]

01:12:25   when it's actually the problem is that that people are demanding that flicks [TS]

01:12:30   and bands like that's like saying it's not McDonald's fault you know it's that it's the fat Americans buying all the [TS]

01:12:35   burgers but that's true but McDonald's have created a demand for something that causes a problem [TS]

01:12:42   and is not true that sort of Netflix is this you know. Very successful company that is selling video data. [TS]

01:12:50   It has certainly created a demand for something and that [TS]

01:12:54   and then there are space have if if it's causing them all these problems which is a debate to be had. [TS]

01:12:59   But let's say let's call it a problem. [TS]

01:13:01   Yes that's true because they have two choices they either ramp up the process on the consumers [TS]

01:13:07   or they go straight to the source of the hamburgers [TS]

01:13:10   and say look if you're going to stop putting all these hamburgers in the pipes you're going to have to pay something [TS]

01:13:15   for. Yeah and that's kind of what I've done isn't. [TS]

01:13:17   Yeah [TS]

01:13:18   and here's where again I think the problem is that the Internet just works nothing like out that like anything else the [TS]

01:13:23   Hamburg analogy is sort of OK for the real world [TS]

01:13:25   but again take it take it back to electricity companies talk about that same same problem right. [TS]

01:13:31   So imagine it's I don't know it's nineteen and it's the one nine hundred twenty [TS]

01:13:38   and we have electricity we have electric light bulbs [TS]

01:13:40   and there's some infrastructure in place that is supplying all the light bulbs across the country with electricity from [TS]

01:13:46   these electric companies and the power stations. [TS]

01:13:48   Yet the current situation is a bit like OK as time goes on we're inventing more [TS]

01:13:55   and more electrical doo hickeys right that we want to plug into the wall and we have a vacuum cleaner. [TS]

01:14:00   The washing machines and all these other kinds of things. [TS]

01:14:03   And the electricity companies who are in this analogy the service providers are basically saying that they don't want [TS]

01:14:10   to build any more infrastructure than the infrastructure that was already there. [TS]

01:14:17   Why or how it was all the all the wires the poles and importantly the power stations. [TS]

01:14:21   That's what they don't want to build the power stations are big and expensive. [TS]

01:14:25   Yeah [TS]

01:14:25   and so what they do instead is start charging you based on what it is that you want to plug into the wall forcing everything [TS]

01:14:33   and all the light bulbs in your house to be dimmer because there's more and more Americans with more [TS]

01:14:38   and more light bulbs so we have to make the light bulb dimmer. [TS]

01:14:41   Yeah but the problem here is like OK electricity company. [TS]

01:14:46   I can understand that under some circumstances if the demand for light bulbs you know went way up faster than you were [TS]

01:14:51   expecting people have more electrical devices than you were expecting. [TS]

01:14:55   OK maybe there's some scenario under which you would theoretically have to do this. [TS]

01:15:00   But [TS]

01:15:01   but the issue here is like as a society what we want to encourage if we want to encourage you electrical company to build [TS]

01:15:08   more power stations so that everybody has more electricity so that they can do more things with that electricity like [TS]

01:15:16   my washing machine like your computer is doing work for you all day long. Society as a whole wants more power. [TS]

01:15:25   And so what you have to do if you're in a situation where markets don't work because normally if there's huge demand [TS]

01:15:31   right in a market that's what markets do great is they are able to fill that demand. [TS]

01:15:36   But if you don't have a situation where markets work you have to make sure that the regulations encourage the creation [TS]

01:15:44   of new infrastructure. [TS]

01:15:45   And so if you tell electrical companies look we're not going to let you charge different prices just so you don't have [TS]

01:15:51   to build a power station you can't do that you have to make sure that they build more power stations so I think that is [TS]

01:15:57   very analogous to the current situation with the Internet search. As providers. [TS]

01:16:01   Is there whining and moaning about how full their pipes are with all this data from the Internet. [TS]

01:16:05   At home I could think of is. [TS]

01:16:07   Hey Internet providers don't you think this is a good sign that people want more Internet [TS]

01:16:15   and net neutrality is a great kind of regulation that forces them to increase investments in infrastructure. [TS]

01:16:23   If they can if they can start biasing what data they let into your house at what particular speeds. [TS]

01:16:29   The only solution for them is that they have to start building more infrastructure which is what you want as a society [TS]

01:16:35   as a whole because in ten twenty years time I think it's a pretty good prediction that actual data going across the [TS]

01:16:43   Internet is going to quintuple in that period of time. At the least. [TS]

01:16:48   So we need to ensure the creation of more infrastructure. [TS]

01:16:51   We don't want to set up a situation where companies can get away using their same infrastructure forever because they [TS]

01:16:59   can do this kind of horrible variable pricing [TS]

01:17:02   and not have to make the investments that we as a society actually want to be made. [TS]

01:17:07   So that's that's where I think the analogy to other other companies just falls down a little bit is because we want to [TS]

01:17:14   encourage more pipes. And our only tool is through regulations. [TS]

01:17:19   So that's that's why we have to keep this net neutrality in place because it acts as an incentive. [TS]

01:17:25   To encourage the creation of more infrastructure. [TS]

01:17:27   In addition to just all the fairness issues that come along with net neutrality about biasing one kind of data over [TS]

01:17:33   another so that's my thoughts on that. [TS]

01:17:37   If you can do it like that if you're going to be using the law as an instrument to make a commercial company do [TS]

01:17:44   something. [TS]

01:17:45   Why factory on the edges Why not just say you have to do it you have to build the government is saying the government [TS]

01:17:52   society is going to make a commercial entity do something they don't want to do. Fair enough. [TS]

01:18:00   Why not just pass a law that if you want to keep if you want to keep the cables you've got to build more infrastructure. [TS]

01:18:08   OK yeah well this is I mean it was such an interesting topic because so many countries handle this in different ways [TS]

01:18:13   and in some places the Internet is basically nationalized in the same way that that some some countries just they build [TS]

01:18:20   all the sewer pipes and they build all the Internet pipes and that's just the way it is. [TS]

01:18:25   And other countries have more hybrid models. I think in the U.S. [TS]

01:18:29   The the political sentiment is generally very resistance to having the government directly do things I'm not saying [TS]

01:18:37   that's wrong I'm not saying that's right it depends a lot on the particular situation. [TS]

01:18:40   Yeah but in America you know Americans generally don't like to expand the scope of government. If they don't have to. [TS]

01:18:48   So I think. [TS]

01:18:50   I can imagine a situation where someone said hey you know good idea let's nationalize all the broadband providers. [TS]

01:18:56   That would not go down well in America. [TS]

01:18:58   And again I think I think that might be there might be legitimate reasons why you shouldn't do that in a place like [TS]

01:19:03   America. You know I can definitely understand that kind of argument. [TS]

01:19:07   So I'm just looking at that as as a certain kind of tool that you have to try and and [TS]

01:19:13   and basically as as a as a stick move companies in the right direction if you can't control them if you can't control [TS]

01:19:21   them directly is just force them to do this thing that they don't necessarily want to do. [TS]

01:19:27   But in America instead the F.C.C. [TS]

01:19:30   Is very likely to turn around and just say oh net neutrality doesn't exist [TS]

01:19:34   and now your existing business is way more profitable because you can charge both your customers more [TS]

01:19:39   and the other companies more and you don't have to make huge infrastructure investments just immediately [TS]

01:19:45   and so it's all very it's all very depressing in America [TS]

01:19:49   and I have to say I'm quite glad at the moment anyway to be in the U.K. Where there's actual broadband competition. [TS]

01:19:56   And as the E.U. I think was just last month you passed a law. [TS]

01:20:00   Was guaranteeing that there is net neutrality in the European Union as well so it's you know thumbs up for Europe on [TS]

01:20:06   Internet policy. Thumbs down to America. I mean unless of course I'm wrong and the F.C.C. [TS]

01:20:12   Chairman comes out on the fifteenth and says I heart net neutrality. [TS]

01:20:16   But since he is apparently a former lobbyist who used to work for Comcast one of the biggest broadband providers. [TS]

01:20:23   I'm not super hopeful that he's going to come out with a pro net neutrality stance so it'll be spun as it'll be spun as [TS]

01:20:31   neutral to be a spin to it to make it sound like it's a good thing [TS]

01:20:34   but I wouldn't be surprised if they just come straight out [TS]

01:20:37   and use the same fast lane technology talking point that they are that I see on the news everywhere. [TS]

01:20:42   You know we want to encourage the creation of fast lanes on the internet so blah blah blah that that's that is kind if [TS]

01:20:49   I had to put money on the table I would I would be fairly willing to bet that you might hear the exact phrase fastlane [TS]

01:20:56   in the F.C.C. Announcement on the fifteenth. [TS]

01:20:58   That's exciting My prediction is bad today or we [TS]

01:21:03   or you know if it goes against how you would like to see what will be the sort of medium term how the problems start to [TS]

01:21:12   manifest themselves for both people in America but for also you as a You Tube you do you feel for yourself. [TS]

01:21:21   Well I don't. [TS]

01:21:24   I can say that I am not concerned for me personally in terms of my career because you know we put our videos up on You [TS]

01:21:34   Tube [TS]

01:21:35   and I'm assuming that Google would be able to pay basically like the ransom money that I as Piers are asking for to make [TS]

01:21:42   sure that You Tube comes through the pipes quickly. [TS]

01:21:44   So it I think it's a bit of a it's a bit of an overstatement to say that you're worried about You Tube because You Tube [TS]

01:21:53   is is an entity that is connected to an incredibly powerful and relatively wealthy company. So I'm. [TS]

01:22:00   I'm concerned that You Tube is going to go away. I think the bigger issue is it just is stagnation for the Internet. [TS]

01:22:09   In the longer term so I think that this is based on the way the ruling goes you can expect that internet speeds will [TS]

01:22:16   continue to just not really grow in America by any significant amount. [TS]

01:22:22   But I think from a customer's perspective the worst thing is it's for someone who's kind of unaware of these issues. [TS]

01:22:29   They're not going to notice anything [TS]

01:22:31   and if if the Internet service provider is slowing down artificially some websites they're not going to think of my [TS]

01:22:36   Internet service provider as a total jerk. [TS]

01:22:38   They're just going to think that some particular Web site happened to be really slow [TS]

01:22:42   and kind of blame those Web sites precisely because the the blast Web sites come through really fast rate so obviously [TS]

01:22:49   their internet connection is fast. It just so happens that some Web sites are slow. [TS]

01:22:53   I think that would end up being the general perception from the population. [TS]

01:22:57   So I have to say I mean but then [TS]

01:22:59   but then we come down to just let commercial realities of life like successful just like everything else in life if [TS]

01:23:06   you're successful you go to the top. [TS]

01:23:08   Will it not be that way with Web sites to the rich Web sites that can pay the ransom. [TS]

01:23:14   A successful and much the same way that successful airlines that have good marketing campaigns become successful [TS]

01:23:21   or the same companies that do the best become successful. Is that not fair. [TS]

01:23:26   The Internet goes the way of everything else in life that the successful rise to the top. [TS]

01:23:32   Because in the end they have the means to do it via their success and those that are unsuccessful. [TS]

01:23:38   You know I have to work harder to become successful. [TS]

01:23:41   Yeah I mean when you pose it like that it sounds like the status quo in terms of human society [TS]

01:23:46   but from my perspective the most amazing thing about the Internet is it is this incredible meritocracy that we have [TS]

01:23:55   never seen before and that it just is obviously great. [TS]

01:24:00   People can start little companies or they can just post stuff on the Internet and so many people can see [TS]

01:24:06   or use that just immediately [TS]

01:24:08   and you don't need to pay some kind of gatekeeper to ensure that your new business is able to get the same kind of [TS]

01:24:16   access as the big boys now. [TS]

01:24:18   I understand that there are there are a lot of there are always going to be advantages to players with more money. [TS]

01:24:25   So You Tube I know it does invest in a lot of genuine infrastructure to try to make sure that You Tube in particular is [TS]

01:24:32   very fast with local data centers and all of these kinds of things. [TS]

01:24:36   I understand that that that happens [TS]

01:24:38   but it doesn't change the fact that for lots of teeny tiny companies they can make their Web site [TS]

01:24:45   and that that has whatever service it is and it can become incredibly popular in a very short period of time [TS]

01:24:50   and right now they don't have to worry about someone knocking on the door [TS]

01:24:54   and saying oh you're using too much of these pipes. I think that that is just great it's such a meritocracy. [TS]

01:25:00   I really like we've never seen before in human history [TS]

01:25:04   and that is my concern is that losing net neutrality makes it less meritocratic it reinforces the power of existing [TS]

01:25:16   players more and I don't think that that is good I don't like that kind of influence [TS]

01:25:21   and in the America I never travel is it not inevitable that you know Sure the internet had to settle fairly to a period [TS]

01:25:28   for a while [TS]

01:25:28   but if it's going to survive in a capitalist society to capitalist wealth which a lot of the world is eventually people [TS]

01:25:37   are going to get wise and think well hang on You Tube in the in from the rules of capitalism for too long [TS]

01:25:44   and it's time for a reality check. [TS]

01:25:47   Well again it's capitalism for who is capitalism for companies on the internet is nothing but it's nothing [TS]

01:25:54   but just like the most pure market competition ever. People can use different. [TS]

01:26:00   Services on the Internet companies can start up they compete they are born they die it all happens just an incredible [TS]

01:26:05   incredible way on the Internet. [TS]

01:26:09   The question is do the people who control the plumbing underneath also get to suddenly compete in also not capitalism [TS]

01:26:19   but basically predatory monopoly practices which is the just the shocking dark side of what could happen when you [TS]

01:26:27   when you when you put it like that it sounds a bit mean. [TS]

01:26:29   It does mean a Terry monopoly [TS]

01:26:31   but that's what it is where you have someone who has monopoly power over infrastructure [TS]

01:26:37   and is then able to engage in rent seeking behavior from traffic flowing through those pipes that they have absolutely [TS]

01:26:44   nothing to do with it. [TS]

01:26:45   There's no argument that there's capitalism happening at the plumbing level at the level of the app's actual fibres in [TS]

01:26:53   the ground and no more than it's practical to have capitalism on the level of the roads to your house. [TS]

01:26:59   It's the same kind of thing you wouldn't be it you wouldn't give some company. [TS]

01:27:04   The ability to to put toll toll booths on every single road an entire country [TS]

01:27:10   and then also charge different rates to different trucks that want to pass through those tolls even if they are the [TS]

01:27:15   same weight but you know one truck is carrying some goods that the company who controls the toll roads doesn't like. [TS]

01:27:21   That's just crazy [TS]

01:27:22   and it's not that's not capitalism in any sense of the word so there's two very very different levels here [TS]

01:27:28   and I think you have just super super efficient super interesting market forces on the level that we interact with [TS]

01:27:37   which is nothing but good. [TS]

01:27:39   But the level beneath it is it is not possible to have that same kind of level of interaction. [TS]

01:27:44   So [TS]

01:27:45   and also I just have to say here my concern with the American ruling in particular is not so much about the details of [TS]

01:27:55   this ruling that from our time when we're recording this is going to have. [TS]

01:28:00   Basically about a week is my concern about what I see often [TS]

01:28:03   and particularly in American politics is this is this establishing of a precedent that you can then build upon to make [TS]

01:28:12   things even worse. [TS]

01:28:14   So again I recommend you go to buy Hart's video if you want all of the details [TS]

01:28:18   but basically it's like companies of worms I espied a worm their way into the situation where they have all of the kind [TS]

01:28:24   of legal protections that are what are called common carriers have. [TS]

01:28:30   They're not responsible for the traffic that flows through their pipes. Then they have all of these legal protections. [TS]

01:28:36   But throughout all of our history those legal protections have come a particular cost [TS]

01:28:40   and now they're trying to work their way out of the costs that we as a society want to impose on them [TS]

01:28:46   and so I just I don't like the precedent setting it. It reminds me of in America the kind of. [TS]

01:28:54   The initial rulings about money as free speech in America and I remember being really frowning my face at that [TS]

01:29:02   and it was not it was not because of that particular ruling [TS]

01:29:06   but because I thought man that ruling is a horrible precedent that allows things to happen later. [TS]

01:29:12   And that's what we have seen over the years is slowly [TS]

01:29:15   but surely once you establish that that money is free speech there's all sorts of other constraints that you eventually [TS]

01:29:23   have to take away. [TS]

01:29:23   Like in America limits to giving to campaigns [TS]

01:29:26   or says I Well we don't limit how much someone can talk about a candidate. [TS]

01:29:31   So if money is just like talking you can't limit how much talking you can do about a can do about a candidate so we [TS]

01:29:37   can't limit how much money you can give a candidate either. [TS]

01:29:40   And that's my concern about the Net Neutrality ruling is I do not want to give the local Internet service providers [TS]

01:29:47   more power to discriminate either in favor or less in favor of the data that is flowing through their pipes. [TS]

01:29:54   I'm worried about where that goes in future steps once you establish that. [TS]

01:30:00   President that the companies are allowed to have some kind of control about what flowing through those wires. [TS]

01:30:04   So but I think my concern comes from. [TS]

01:30:07   One thing I would say that common carrier point I think is really key to this [TS]

01:30:13   and that is one thing that I mean I loved your video but that's one thing I really took from VI's video. [TS]

01:30:19   Yes that's a hit that hit home with me when I sit and formulate any argument you know for the dark side here [TS]

01:30:27   and think well maybe we don't need net neutrality as soon as that common carrier issue comes up the argument falls to [TS]

01:30:35   pieces and I think anyone who buys videos of his it is quite long. [TS]

01:30:40   Eleven minutes not long by my standards but it's quite long for a You Tube video but if you stick with video [TS]

01:30:46   and get that common carrier part that's a real general killer issue it won't spoil anything here [TS]

01:30:53   but one of the examples she uses which I think is very illustrative is. The airlines are classified as common carriers. [TS]

01:31:02   Yes And what that means is that airline airlines have to sell tickets to just whoever is buying airline tickets they're [TS]

01:31:09   not allowed to discriminate against employees of one particular company or another particular company [TS]

01:31:16   and one of the benefits of being a common carrier is that you are not responsible for whatever the people are doing [TS]

01:31:25   with your airplane transportation. [TS]

01:31:28   So if people are using your airplane to commit a crime that they're getting from one location to another location that [TS]

01:31:34   they need to you is the airplane company are not responsible for that. Yeah and it's actually really came up from. [TS]

01:31:42   I want to mention this came up [TS]

01:31:44   when I was doing so my research was originally that came from telegraph companies in the United States [TS]

01:31:49   and the whole the whole idea of the common carrier came from there which was that telegraph companies were accepting [TS]

01:31:56   money to duplicate messages. [TS]

01:32:00   It's that one company was sending [TS]

01:32:02   and send their messages to their competitor who was paying to hear all of the correspondence that that their their [TS]

01:32:10   competitor was up to. [TS]

01:32:11   So basically leaked paying to wiretap their telegraphs [TS]

01:32:15   and the telecom companies made the argument saying well these are our wires. [TS]

01:32:21   So we built this telegraph network we can do whatever we want [TS]

01:32:24   and if that if that means if someone is willing to pay us to send them a copy of all the communications from particular [TS]

01:32:29   individual if we think that's good business idea we can totally do that right. [TS]

01:32:33   And the court stepped in and said no you cannot do that you have to treat all of these messages the same [TS]

01:32:40   and that's a very at the very notion of a common carrier. [TS]

01:32:43   And that's that's the same kind of rule to apply to the Internet is to say you are a common carrier of data. [TS]

01:32:50   And one of the benefits of that means that again if people were using the Telegraph to plan their bank robbery you the [TS]

01:32:56   telegraph company are not complicit in that you were not helping them conspire because you have to treat all the [TS]

01:33:02   messages the same that's the benefit of you the telegraph company get so it's the common carrier thing is in the come [TS]

01:33:09   in the petitions that we have to the F.C.C. [TS]

01:33:13   You're supposed to use this phrase to say we would like you to classify Internet service service providers as a class [TS]

01:33:19   two common carrier in the United States which comes with all of these kinds of responsibilities [TS]

01:33:24   but also these these freedoms from being complicit in what's actually traveling through your network. [TS]

01:33:30   I would think if you're an Internet service provider you know you don't want to be responsible for anything going [TS]

01:33:34   through those pipes because it's just terrifying what people might actually be doing on the Internet. [TS]

01:33:40   So yeah you know they enjoy that enjoy that cloak of protection [TS]

01:33:43   but I don't want to toe the line in some other aspects of US So yeah yeah that's exactly it. [TS]

01:33:49   Well hopefully next time we talk about this we'll be talking about it wasn't as bad as we thought. [TS]

01:33:56   You don't sound hopeful. I. [TS]

01:34:00   I'm not optimistic is what has what I would say [TS]

01:34:03   but it is because I look at the structure of the way that this was set up. The F.C.C. [TS]

01:34:08   Is not it is not a democratic body. You can't you don't elect people to the F.C.C. [TS]

01:34:14   They're just appointed [TS]

01:34:16   and you know they don't necessarily have any any meaningful accountability to the general public [TS]

01:34:25   and so I have a tiny glimmer of hope in that they pre-announced their announcements they said we are going to announce [TS]

01:34:32   something about the Net Neutrality rulings on the fifteenth. [TS]

01:34:35   Meantime we're opening it up to a public inquiry taking the temperature that that is that is my only glimmer of hope is [TS]

01:34:44   that they wanted to see OK how riled are people going to be about this. [TS]

01:34:51   My hope is that they felt there was there was enough Ryle meant to warrant maybe not doing what they were going to do. [TS]

01:34:58   Actually I was tracking I used your el tracker to see how many people clicked on the link in my video to go to the [TS]

01:35:03   F.C.C. and Of course I can't know how many people filled in the form which the F.C.C. [TS]

01:35:08   Goes way out of its way to scare you into not doing and it makes it super user unfriendly [TS]

01:35:15   but at the time of the recording about fifty thousand people at least clicked the link in my video to go to the F.C.C. [TS]

01:35:22   Page I reckon one in one hundred best. [TS]

01:35:25   Yeah that's kind of that's slightly My guess is well it may be one in a hundred would fill out the actual form [TS]

01:35:30   but you know I can't I can't know that I I don't know what the results are but I am not optimistic. I expect the F.C.C. [TS]

01:35:38   To just have some some opening line in their statement about how we really listen to what you said [TS]

01:35:43   and everybody said they wanted a better Internet. [TS]

01:35:45   So our regulation changes today are to encourage a better Internet with new fast lanes for you to get you know the [TS]

01:35:53   content that you want as fast as it can be delivered and yeah that's that's basically what I expect to do well. [TS]

01:36:00   Next time so I don't I really hope I'm wrong but I'm not optimistic. [TS]

01:36:04   I feel a bit like I didn't give you much of a hard time and make you duck and wave [TS]

01:36:08   but that's because I think this is a no brainer. [TS]

01:36:11   Yeah there is there is no other side to this [TS]

01:36:14   and yet And yet it might not work out I work out there are a couple of things off topic though I think we should point [TS]

01:36:21   out as we wrap things up. [TS]

01:36:22   Yeah I have an admission to make at the end I mean beforehand I wasn't very well [TS]

01:36:27   and oh you know I wasn't feeling one hundred percent but well enough to broadcast them. [TS]

01:36:33   I've never realized of the Court of the whole thing on my printed microphone on the computer [TS]

01:36:37   and not my big push microphone I was asking about the microphones in the beginning. [TS]

01:36:44   All right well we have to retroactively apologized to the people for your terrible audio quality then I'm sorry man [TS]

01:36:50   and I was addressing to you as well I feel really bad I like. I realized about fifty minutes ago and. [TS]

01:36:57   If it was really a worry this stuff is bound to happen eventually so sooner [TS]

01:37:01   or later I will I will be doing the whole thing talking into my laptop microphone I'll sound terrible one day so don't [TS]

01:37:07   worry it's going to have everything was this was the first time I didn't do the backup recording on to the camera with [TS]

01:37:12   a ready of my Because well it was the first time I said I'm not doing it. [TS]

01:37:15   Yes of course that's when this is going to happen so don't worry. [TS]

01:37:19   It's really no really mad at me and I know that I don't and I don't even understand how I would be mad. [TS]

01:37:25   Gosh I can understand. Can I explain one last thing at that net neutrality as well. Yeah you know what. [TS]

01:37:32   In much the same way I think copyright infringement is the wrong time. I think net neutrality is a bad guy. [TS]

01:37:40   Yeah it's a really it's a I mean it couldn't be a more neutral less provocative to try to see even got the word neutral [TS]

01:37:51   in that. Yeah they thought that was a mistake by or genius depending on who came up with that. [TS]

01:38:00   I'm Stanford came up with that in two thousand to believe but [TS]

01:38:04   and is he is a pro at the neutrality you see against his progeny. [TS]

01:38:08   He is pro net neutrality and I should have called it something different and because well terrible things of Kona. [TS]

01:38:13   Yes but of if I can just just point out I skimmed through the original paper that came across the chart [TS]

01:38:19   and the paper was just a technical paper talking talking about a particular property of certain networks. [TS]

01:38:27   This was well before this ever became a political issue. [TS]

01:38:31   So yeah this was not like someone was trying to coin a term for political debate. [TS]

01:38:37   Someone was just trying to have a useful technical term to describe certain kinds of networks and in that circumstance. [TS]

01:38:44   Net neutrality is is a great term but I completely agree with you and I've been in discussions online [TS]

01:38:51   and in real life with people I I have found that everybody has a hard time with this term. [TS]

01:38:56   Even people who are technically oriented very easily have run into this issue of M I five for net neutrality [TS]

01:39:04   or am I against net neutrality. And then in my own video if you can. [TS]

01:39:09   I only say Net Neutrality I think three times and both are [TS]

01:39:13   and all the times I very intentionally tried to structure the sentence so that it was super clear that you should be [TS]

01:39:21   for this B. [TS]

01:39:23   and It was a video ends with defend net neutrality [TS]

01:39:26   and I think it starts with a you know an important part of the way the Internet works. Net neutrality. [TS]

01:39:32   But for most of the video I went with I was thinking about you know what can I say instead [TS]

01:39:37   and I I was using the term data quality as I was trying to better things a bit [TS]

01:39:45   but it's not it's still not as true doesn't grab me by the throat the way that free dating does. [TS]

01:39:50   But well I think there is a better term that was the best I could come up with [TS]

01:39:54   and almost like fair night maybe fairness and I'm not going to happen just slightly here. The more the. [TS]

01:40:00   About freebooting the less I like it I hate to tell you this morning about three women less alike [TS]

01:40:04   and I can't remember who it was because we're just doing this now. [TS]

01:40:07   But somebody proposed the alternative view jacking which I am the more I think about it I'm way more in favor of the [TS]

01:40:13   term view jacking [TS]

01:40:14   and freebooting so I don't I don't think it is sounds too much like some rubbish sort of eighty's maybe I mean I know [TS]

01:40:22   what you're saying and you jackass. [TS]

01:40:24   I don't mean to split the vote on this just so briefly after you made it into the urban dictionary [TS]

01:40:30   and we're going to try to get you into the Oxford English Dictionary. [TS]

01:40:33   But the more I think about it I think freebooting has the same kind of thing which is my fourth freebooting I like free [TS]

01:40:38   stuff and that net neutrality has which is again like O M I for the neutral thing. [TS]

01:40:44   Nor am I against the neutral thing it is it is not a good term politically and data quality is not the greatest [TS]

01:40:52   but it's better data not fairness I don't know maybe we can ask the listeners if they're still listening since we're [TS]

01:40:59   just rambling on now what I think would be better than net neutrality [TS]

01:41:04   and if they can hear what I'm saying on this microphone I apologize apologize gray. [TS]

01:41:10   I wasn't well and I set my computer up incorrectly and I will be punishing myself you know we talk about next time. [TS]

01:41:21   Checklists have a lot of checklists. You need it. [TS]