Hello Internet

H.I. #9: Kids in a Box


00:00:00   That the group of individuals you prefer outperform the group of individuals you do not prefer. [TS]

00:00:06   Shall we commence episode number nine. [TS]

00:00:09   Yes Number nine and let's do this this is this is the last time we were ever to podcast in single digits. [TS]

00:00:16   Yes that is right. Do you remember when you turn ten. [TS]

00:00:19   I don't remember very well but I remember thinking it was a big deal. [TS]

00:00:23   I don't think I have any genuine memories from before high school so no I don't remember turning ten years old I [TS]

00:00:31   remember seeing pictures of when I turned ten but I don't have any memories in my own head of such an event. [TS]

00:00:39   Do you have memories from before you were ten years old. [TS]

00:00:41   Like just in lots of things that happened I don't I don't think so no. I mean not real ones. [TS]

00:00:47   You know you know how did your parents tell you about stuff that happened when you were a little kid [TS]

00:00:51   and so it feels like memory [TS]

00:00:52   but I'm not sure any of those memories that I think I have are actually real memories I have of you do you are you [TS]

00:01:01   going to other people who tell me you have memories from being in the the cradle you know little tiny baby Brady I have [TS]

00:01:08   to say I have three or four memories and they're mostly pretty big incidents like one when I broke my arm and one [TS]

00:01:14   when not going on a plane and there's a few things I remember [TS]

00:01:20   but the one thing that's really remember one thing that's really strange I should say is I have two dreams from [TS]

00:01:26   when I was really young I still remember really vividly. [TS]

00:01:31   But I'm not going to talk about them because I just suddenly occurred to me how boring it is to talk about their dreams. [TS]

00:01:36   I think it is very boring hearing people talk about their dreams. [TS]

00:01:41   It's even boring talking about your own dreams when if you tell someone else about your dreams always. [TS]

00:01:46   But halfway through the story you realize your becoming bored by the story. [TS]

00:01:51   Yeah and it's like Gosh how boring must this be for the other person. [TS]

00:01:54   This is this is one of these things where perhaps I shouldn't be so quick to judge [TS]

00:01:57   but I judge people very harshly if they're the kind. People who want to tell you about their dreams. [TS]

00:02:02   I have no patience for this. Absolutely zero. [TS]

00:02:06   And I feel like it is a poor indicator of a person's ability to project themselves into the mind of another human being [TS]

00:02:14   if they think it's interesting to tell you about their dreams but dreams are not interesting to anybody. [TS]

00:02:21   My own dreams aren't even interesting to me they just you know it's like oh I'll do I'll do I lose points for starting [TS]

00:02:28   to talk about it and then gain points for realizing at the last minute [TS]

00:02:31   and aborting you know if you were really close to losing some points. [TS]

00:02:35   But but you know you were nosediving there but you pulled up at the last possible second. [TS]

00:02:40   So you're still OK in my book [TS]

00:02:42   but now that I've I've known people who I mean it's like it's like hours later you're at work it's lunch time you know [TS]

00:02:48   this person's dream occurred hours and hours ago [TS]

00:02:52   and I had a really interesting dream last night let me tell you about it. [TS]

00:02:55   I was out shopping and I was with my brother but he wasn't really my brother you know he was also Robin Williams. [TS]

00:03:03   Stop it like it's not it's not real. Like this means nothing to anybody. It doesn't even mean anything to you. [TS]

00:03:09   Ah God so hard if you wake up if you have like a dream that has made an impression on you temporarily. D. [TS]

00:03:17   Tell your wife about it. [TS]

00:03:18   My wife actually thinks is very funny and it actually just happened this morning where right [TS]

00:03:25   when I wake up sometimes I will make a comment about the kind of feeling like Oh God I had just really busy dreams last [TS]

00:03:32   night and that is as far as I will go and she will ask me oh you know what did you dream about [TS]

00:03:37   and I was like I can't I can't even tell you it's just who cares right. [TS]

00:03:41   Just all that matters is I woke up [TS]

00:03:44   and I have still have this kind of not like a great night's rest last night feeling [TS]

00:03:49   but that's that's the end of it you know the details of the dreams I just totally irrelevant. [TS]

00:03:55   Well and let's not talk about the follow up farce new countries I hear. Yes yes we have a bunch of new countries. [TS]

00:04:02   I didn't do it last time [TS]

00:04:04   but just yesterday I tallied up all of the new countries so the countries from which we've had reviews. [TS]

00:04:09   OK So this is so what episode nine so since episode seven we have gotten at least one review in all of the following [TS]

00:04:20   countries. So here's a list it is Bulgaria. [TS]

00:04:23   Egypt stoning Indonesia Kuwait Macedonia Micronesia Moldova Mongolia in the pol Paraguay Peru and the Philippines. [TS]

00:04:32   So which ones in that list have you actually been to I have been to Stony. [TS]

00:04:41   And that is the only one on the list that I have been to when I do you. [TS]

00:04:48   Yes quite an exclusive list is nothing to Egypt [TS]

00:04:51   and I've obviously been in the polls one of my favorite countries in the world. [TS]

00:04:55   Welcome to people from all of those countries especially in the poll. [TS]

00:04:59   My quite possibly my favorite country in the world and home to half of Mt Everest. My favorite mountain in the world. [TS]

00:05:06   Why is it your favorite country in the world. [TS]

00:05:08   Because it's got like so many huge mountains and like it so I sense a bit cliche [TS]

00:05:13   when you say that people are really nice but the people are really nice [TS]

00:05:17   and it's just like oh come on it's just it's cool looking. It's cool stuff. [TS]

00:05:23   I've had I've had really good times there so I want to go there again I want to I've been to Everest base camp twice [TS]

00:05:30   and I want to go three times so I'm going to do it again. Well I love it. Would you come with me to Everest base camp. [TS]

00:05:38   They would not you wouldn't know it when I want to. [TS]

00:05:41   What didn't the last time or the airplane you took there last time like exploded. [TS]

00:05:46   Months after their planet the first time from Katmandu to look where you start the trek to Everest that same plane a [TS]

00:05:55   while later crash on that same flight and killed everyone. [TS]

00:06:00   Well unfortunately like I was watching on the news and that they had footage of the wreckage it was so terrible [TS]

00:06:06   and the serial number on the plane and I was like hang on and I got out my whole life I was [TS]

00:06:11   and there's me standing next to the same plane waving you know the bus can be funny. [TS]

00:06:18   Yes like a ringing endorsement for me to go to the one of that terrifying little plane to member you showed me the [TS]

00:06:26   question well you know you don't get you don't get to you don't get to say and do the cool things in life you know. [TS]

00:06:32   Yeah but I've I've read Into Thin Air. [TS]

00:06:35   But the listeners say Jon Krakauer book it is it's about an expedition to Mount Everest that went terribly terribly [TS]

00:06:44   wrong. [TS]

00:06:45   If they were like Everest I'm not I'm not saying we should go about Everest I'm just saying we'll go to base camp. [TS]

00:06:50   Yeah but you're just inches closer to danger in that kind of situation right. [TS]

00:06:57   Being at base camp you are already so far away from civilization. [TS]

00:07:02   It's just into thin air I thought was an interesting book partly because I think it's an interesting chronicle of how [TS]

00:07:09   things go wrong in that there are not necessarily any major things that need to happen before you have a real problem [TS]

00:07:16   on your hands it's just the accumulation of a lot of little errors each of which on their own wouldn't necessarily be [TS]

00:07:22   devastating. [TS]

00:07:23   And so I feel like even being at a place like base camp is just the safety margin between you [TS]

00:07:32   and death who waits around every corner to catch you is just so much smaller than being in a more urban area perhaps [TS]

00:07:42   with a well off on someone else to go. [TS]

00:07:50   I'm sure you will I'm sure there are many people who would love to go but that that is that is not me. [TS]

00:07:55   When I was on the follow up list what I saw in our. Or ever excellence. [TS]

00:08:01   Read a discussion thread somebody made a little info graphic which showed your productive output vs my productive [TS]

00:08:08   output [TS]

00:08:09   and then it showed that since my previous video the video on jury nullification that since I had published that you had [TS]

00:08:16   published I believe three hundred forty seven videos and also started nine new channels. [TS]

00:08:23   You got that right from the info graphic I think is what you had done so you are quite a beast [TS]

00:08:28   when it comes to you to productivity. You do exaggerate as mock me as always and I am not by much though. [TS]

00:08:36   But I did notice that someone made that that little that little graphic with a little fun I was having a video I had [TS]

00:08:43   uploaded since your previous one and and obviously it was amusing to see so many videos [TS]

00:08:50   but you know the worst thing was they left out a whole bunch. [TS]

00:08:53   I think I missed to how John there's a whole bunch of it is not on that list. [TS]

00:08:59   So do you know what the actual number was at the time was I wouldn't something maybe I don't I don't know what it was [TS]

00:09:05   but whatever it was it has come to an end because Hallelujah. A new video. Yes yes very exciting. [TS]

00:09:16   That's what was on your site I have watched it and know exactly what it is of course. Yeah I put out the video. [TS]

00:09:26   It is our Hong Kong and Macao countries and I think at the time we're recording this on Sunday [TS]

00:09:33   and I put it up on Wednesday I think. [TS]

00:09:37   But yes there were many funny comments left both on Reddit [TS]

00:09:41   and on You Tube which I did scan over four people remarking about how they look right there's a video [TS]

00:09:48   and you know gather the children around it's a rare occurrence. [TS]

00:09:52   So people are very funny on the Internet I think there's a there's a great [TS]

00:09:56   but yes the the long the long time of the video is over much too much. [TS]

00:10:00   Great relief that had just been that had been too long [TS]

00:10:02   and I I was getting very anxious about it so I'm happy to have it done. [TS]

00:10:06   Do you want to stay with me here because I remember a few podcasts ago you told us about your whole procedure of [TS]

00:10:13   putting up a new video going after it so you have this kind of video game time. Yeah. [TS]

00:10:19   Computer sorry computer game whatever you whatever the young people call them they can do that [TS]

00:10:24   and for various reasons mostly my folks the recording of this podcast has been delayed a few times [TS]

00:10:32   and I did have a window to record it in the evening after you put that video out and I messaged you [TS]

00:10:37   and said Do you want to do it Wednesday night or whatever it was [TS]

00:10:41   and you were like I can't I have another commitment so I thought you must be going out to dinner or something [TS]

00:10:47   or have some business meeting and then I saw her on Twitter making some comments [TS]

00:10:51   or showing some picture that you're basically playing your computer game. [TS]

00:10:55   So you're basically fobbed me off and didn't work or record the podcast so you could play computer games. [TS]

00:11:01   OK this is this is a problem following me on Twitter. [TS]

00:11:04   I did I did take my my traditional day off the day after to to basically mess around in open T.T.D. [TS]

00:11:14   For those who care about such things [TS]

00:11:16   but I did have an actual engagement in the evening so I spent most of the day blowing off all work [TS]

00:11:22   but I did not spend the evening just like I don't feel like recording this podcast I had other stuff to do [TS]

00:11:28   and you were only available in the evening time so did not work out. [TS]

00:11:32   Sorry I don't I don't feel quite so spare and I thought I might try a bit of an experiment on this point cast. [TS]

00:11:39   Yeah obviously it's only life to you and I So will lose some of its impact. [TS]

00:11:44   I thought it might be a fun thing to do anyway so I might put my next video live right now. [TS]

00:11:50   Oh yeah we're recording this on a Sunday evening which we shot [TS]

00:11:54   and that's an optimal time to put my You Tube video live I would suspect not. I would suspect not as well. [TS]

00:12:00   But you're going to do it anyway but I'm going to do it anyway. [TS]

00:12:02   Part of that reason is I'm a bit worried about this video anyway so I don't mind if it gets kind of a bit lost in the [TS]

00:12:08   noise. So because and I'm I'm prepared to be judged by you here because I and I've already been judged by others. [TS]

00:12:15   He mocked my occasional overly long videos like this one is twenty six and a half minutes long that is pretty long. [TS]

00:12:22   Which channel or it's a number five number five it's got it was it's got a bit of a story behind it. [TS]

00:12:30   A guy the guy he came around to record it. Simon Pampena he's a mascot he's in a few of my videos. [TS]

00:12:36   Basically he said I've got this really cool idea I'm really excited about doing. [TS]

00:12:40   I actually want to do is I'll put it live and then I'll tell you the story because they go out [TS]

00:12:44   and put it out of shows up on a number file you know the package open now to write this just it was fast so I put it [TS]

00:12:53   live and I said basically he came ran epic circles. I see it. Oh my goodness. That quick that hit refresh. [TS]

00:13:01   It's up epic circles. That's amazing. [TS]

00:13:04   Yeah I have no idea why don't I immediately the thirty three views I wasn't even the first amazing. [TS]

00:13:12   So anyway he came around to come and he said I've got this really good idea and it's really involved [TS]

00:13:18   and it took all day to film so falling off from holding the camera and I was like Is this going to end [TS]

00:13:26   and he was like Yeah you know it's it's OK trust me and then [TS]

00:13:29   and then I was just realizing this film was just getting completely out of control. [TS]

00:13:33   So anyway I've ended up with this video that's truly epic and pensive called Epic circles but it is really interesting. [TS]

00:13:39   And he's kind of half way through to explain what he was doing he had to explain a whole new concept of a clean version [TS]

00:13:45   and this became this huge mess. [TS]

00:13:47   But the one good thing about it was it did result in the most beautiful final product piece of paper that we've ever [TS]

00:13:55   had in number five. We always write on these scraps of paper and a piece of paper at the end of this. [TS]

00:14:00   There is a master pace because for this video to work he couldn't just explain the concepts he had to actually draw all [TS]

00:14:06   these diagrams in circles like perfectly accurately on the paper with the campuses and rulers and things. [TS]

00:14:13   It's a must to place a piece of paper that the video is a bit long [TS]

00:14:17   and so I've kind of buried on a Sunday not a set of people who because I guess if people watch videos at work they're [TS]

00:14:23   not going to want to watch twenty six minute video. [TS]

00:14:25   I think if they're at work they probably want to watch a twenty year period [TS]

00:14:28   and I think I think you're looking at that the entirely wrong way see I would've thought maybe I thought this maybe [TS]

00:14:33   this is more of a Sunday night video than than it than I while I'm having my sandwich lunch break so I could see from [TS]

00:14:41   my own demographics looking at the information I have access to there is no doubt about it that my videos are basically [TS]

00:14:48   their watch times correspond to the United States work week so people are watching like between nine [TS]

00:14:57   and five on the work days. [TS]

00:14:59   Right that's the whole You Tube economy is based on people at work taking some time off perhaps let's say of us E G P [TS]

00:15:08   three first on my video I had to leave a comment. [TS]

00:15:14   It's live right the very exciting so I thought I went over to it in until you got it and the other [TS]

00:15:18   and the other thing is someone's written a comment here saying you know amazing as always which is very flattering [TS]

00:15:23   but I could only watch the first minute of the video [TS]

00:15:26   when twenty six minutes long so I'm not entirely convinced they do think the video is amazing I think just they dislike [TS]

00:15:34   you. [TS]

00:15:34   Does that mean everyone else who says something nice about my videos hasn't really watched them a little kids are going [TS]

00:15:40   to start down that existential existential black hole here wondering if your work is any good [TS]

00:15:46   but now I'm pretty sure it's not. Anyway are you so hard on yourself. [TS]

00:15:52   But anyway thank you for thank you for your first comment [TS]

00:15:55   and will come back at the very end to see if anyone who actually has watched the twenty six minute. [TS]

00:16:00   So this had anything to say about my way too long video I don't know how you could just release a video well while [TS]

00:16:05   you're while you're just doing something else I would be very nervous after I have to have the whole schedule clear for [TS]

00:16:13   the first maybe an hour or so after a video because I want to make sure there's nothing wrong or [TS]

00:16:19   or anything that fits just anything that would absolutely have to change I mean that's only only happened once [TS]

00:16:26   or twice I've taken out a video and then uploaded something that that's changed immediately afterward [TS]

00:16:31   but I would be I would be just waiting to find out if there was just something wrong or dumb in the video so [TS]

00:16:37   but you're very very calm and I guess you have so many doesn't you know concerned I guess. Well now I'm keeping it. [TS]

00:16:45   I'm keeping my left on because if someone says Oh my goodness I can't believe you just said Paes four point one three [TS]

00:16:51   and we will have tech video again and I'm done with you. [TS]

00:16:56   Anyway thank you for indulging me and thank you for your first comment. [TS]

00:17:01   Did you have to say what do you think about people writing first on video just for the sake of having the first comic [TS]

00:17:07   do you have a view on this I don't think it's like Internet culture. I think it's just sort of funny. [TS]

00:17:14   I don't know I'm not sure how serious those commenters are it's just a funny bit of internet culture people want to say [TS]

00:17:21   first and of course there's always the funny thing about a particular popular videos. [TS]

00:17:27   People simultaneously trying to say first so you end up with thirty comments all that safe. [TS]

00:17:31   Then they start arguing with each other. [TS]

00:17:33   I you know I I'm the big fan of Internet culture I like all those kinds of things so I don't I don't mind at all I just [TS]

00:17:39   think it's kind of funny and like I made a hell of a lot about how I like it I think it's I'm for it [TS]

00:17:46   and I think it's just human nature to want to be first. [TS]

00:17:50   Yeah but it is interesting how different different communities can be so the first thing is totally absent from Reddit. [TS]

00:17:58   You know you'll never see people leave a first. [TS]

00:18:00   Comment on Iran today it's interesting to see how how different places can be kind of culturally different [TS]

00:18:06   but some of the already angry at me for having left the first comment on your video. So there we go. [TS]

00:18:12   That's the advantage of knowing when it was going live. Hello Internet. [TS]

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00:19:37   and that is really what I appreciate that this is a hugely professional team of people working to make sure that your [TS]

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00:20:47   create an exceptional website. [TS]

00:20:50   Someone on the Internet sent to me a little story which I just thought was worth a mention that is Yahoo possibly [TS]

00:20:57   starting up a Youtube competitor which of course is something near and dear to both of our hearts [TS]

00:21:06   and the news story is basically about several famous unnamed You Tubers who have been approached by Yahoo to try [TS]

00:21:17   and bring them over to whatever this new services that Yahoo may be launching soon and someone sent that along to me [TS]

00:21:23   and want to know if I was one of the people who had been approached by Yahoo. [TS]

00:21:28   And I have to say I am disappointed that I was not approached by Yahoo. [TS]

00:21:32   I thought oh that's kind of you know I'm I'm here right let me know ya ya. [TS]

00:21:38   I'd be willing to listen to offers from Yahoo to see if they wanted me to post videos on their new service as well as [TS]

00:21:45   well you would know instead of I'm sure they would prefer their I'm sure their approach is going to involve instead of [TS]

00:21:50   rather than as I now see that the deal breaker yahoo who I'm not negotiating with now [TS]

00:21:56   but yeah of course I would not do it instead of I think a while I will. [TS]

00:22:00   I'd be very happy to see You Tube have a little bit more competition on the internet because I think competition is [TS]

00:22:05   good for everybody. [TS]

00:22:06   I would not exclusively switch to Yahoo unless unless there was a pile of money that was just comically astronomically [TS]

00:22:16   large which I don't think it would probably be part of the deal. [TS]

00:22:19   But anyway I'm sure it would be part of their due for the right people [TS]

00:22:22   and that's how that's what you're going to tell you that's like the House of Cards. [TS]

00:22:26   Netflix trick isn't that he was the only place to get something that's good and you couldn't spend money to make money. [TS]

00:22:33   I guess I guess so I think you're trying to convince Yahoo that that's that's what they should do they should try to [TS]

00:22:39   spend huge amounts of money to make people exclusive. [TS]

00:22:41   Well I don't think I think if that if the only place I could watch your videos was very I would still be watching some [TS]

00:22:49   videos and yet they are interesting. [TS]

00:22:52   I don't I don't think that that exclusive video could ever possibly work out [TS]

00:22:57   but if I thought it was it was just interesting to see [TS]

00:22:59   and I would be totally I would be totally open to posting my videos on an additional place I used to. [TS]

00:23:05   If you think this yeah. [TS]

00:23:06   Are you saying to me that you think this poaching is staffed by if it's trickery does not involve them transferring [TS]

00:23:14   their exclusivities from You Tube to of course that's what it would say. [TS]

00:23:18   Surely you know you think so I guess maybe you're right. Then what's the point otherwise. [TS]

00:23:24   If you could just watch the same content what one artist you know that they need to make people migrate to the only way [TS]

00:23:30   to force people to migrate. [TS]

00:23:33   OK so you're here is here is the put the link to the story in the center [TS]

00:23:37   but the summary of it is going from like not at all. [TS]

00:23:42   Named sources would do with others who are not super thrilled at the news [TS]

00:23:44   but anyway supposedly Yahoo is trying to tempt big You Tubers over with higher advertising rates on their own their own [TS]

00:23:56   competitor as opposed to You Tube's advertising rates. So I think you know maybe it would. [TS]

00:24:04   Doesn't necessarily have to be exclusive if Yahoo could actually follow through on that deal [TS]

00:24:09   and actually have higher advertising rates for content producers. [TS]

00:24:13   There would there would be incentive for people to do a post on both services and then maybe like [TS]

00:24:20   when I post a video on my website on Great dot com Not on You Tube I have to embed that video from youtube [TS]

00:24:31   but if I was uploading on Yahoo [TS]

00:24:33   and youtube I would have to pick which one of those two services do I want to add the video from and this is right [TS]

00:24:38   or I'm not going to have both of them. Or or for example when I say on Twitter. [TS]

00:24:43   Oh yeah there's a brand new great video and I include a link. [TS]

00:24:47   I'm not going to link to both young [TS]

00:24:49   and U two I see now that I think they could just try to convince people to be there. [TS]

00:24:56   Yeah and then maybe demonstrate look we can get you more dollars per thousand views. [TS]

00:25:03   You've been through more than me and Ben You are wiser and smarter than me. As always and you've proven it yet again. [TS]

00:25:11   We're just we're just speculating here we know what [TS]

00:25:13   and what might who I don't know if he hasn't occurred to you in the slightest. [TS]

00:25:16   I may be one of the people that approach. [TS]

00:25:20   And from your laugh at that conversation right now if you don't [TS]

00:25:25   but I just assumed that you would have told me after I feel like you wouldn't you wouldn't hold a secret like that for [TS]

00:25:31   me would you. [TS]

00:25:33   You sneaky man well I might tell you I'm not sure I'll tell the whole pod casting Well maybe they had me sign a [TS]

00:25:40   non-disclosure form or something like that you know I mean maybe I don't have to like me. [TS]

00:25:46   I haven't approached me I thought I had never heard of it and it's an odd approach especially after that twenty six [TS]

00:25:52   and a half minute video I put up today that probably cost me half a listener. [TS]

00:25:56   Well it's well see maybe that'll be your most popular video. [TS]

00:26:00   Over You know if there's any comments on that video because of course you know I approve comments now after you know [TS]

00:26:07   this from previous discussions you have said you know this so that says to them it's a terrible decision [TS]

00:26:14   but it has its problems but going with it for now as many many problems you know will get me on. [TS]

00:26:21   You remember I think you know you haven't you haven't got black people in your videos being harassed [TS]

00:26:27   and having comments made about that. No but but actuality. [TS]

00:26:32   Yes [TS]

00:26:32   but my my opinion is that you should just if you're going to have to do this you shouldn't just have the comments at all [TS]

00:26:38   like approving the comments is just just a huge burden of labour that you're adding on to yourself that that's that's I [TS]

00:26:46   would just shut down the comments instead of promising to moderate the whole discussion. [TS]

00:26:51   So someone's commented on your comment saying awesome C.G. [TS]

00:26:54   Pay so why is that people are saying you or someone one of my videos just doesn't seem right. [TS]

00:26:59   Only thing you can say that that's fine you know we'll go back later and see if it's still there. [TS]

00:27:06   I'm sure it will be I'm sure you will have taken it down nine or so anyway. [TS]

00:27:14   Yeah we went [TS]

00:27:15   and say yeah I will be I will be curious to see that obviously I'm very grateful to You Tube for allowing me to turn [TS]

00:27:24   this into a professional living. [TS]

00:27:27   But I always think more competition is better than less competition in all areas like this [TS]

00:27:32   and I think it's pretty fair to say that You Tube has just no comparable competition out there on the Internet there's [TS]

00:27:40   been MIA But you know it's such a different creature it's not like it's not like You Tube at all you know just [TS]

00:27:47   different. Yeah it's complete it's completely different no advertising on Vimeo for once like this. [TS]

00:27:53   This whole business model of ours couldn't exist on them you know which makes it a very different kind of creature. [TS]

00:28:00   And in some ways better in some ways worse. [TS]

00:28:02   But yeah so I would I would welcome more competition in the Internet space though is better. [TS]

00:28:08   So I've had a few things going on. [TS]

00:28:10   Oh yeah I was I had a few sort of negative many things [TS]

00:28:14   and a few positive things because you know I'm always mindful of being too much of a staff [TS]

00:28:18   but this is going to be like we discussed last time where there's going to be Brady's airplane crash corner [TS]

00:28:24   and then a moaning section is Brady's Papercuts. [TS]

00:28:27   I think we've got it all in Crash going already have a half an hour on the Bradys Papercuts the part where you moan [TS]

00:28:34   about something small. This is because I know you're a fan of kind of Lord Of The Rings poverty type stuff. [TS]

00:28:40   I watched The Desolation of Smaug smell. [TS]

00:28:43   Have you sent your latest film last not because I was pretty unimpressed with the first Hobbit film that I had heard [TS]

00:28:51   this one was better and that was kind of you know pulling it from the fire a bit. I beg to differ. [TS]

00:28:58   Oh yeah I was pretty unimpressed by the film. I nearly turned off. [TS]

00:29:07   Was I just did I just catch at the wrong time [TS]

00:29:09   or is this one also dull as dishwater dishwater repetitive is something wrong with me. [TS]

00:29:16   Well good so I didn't see it and I was sure you would say that you love that stuff. [TS]

00:29:22   Well I was super into the original Lord Of The Rings movies coming out and I still really like those [TS]

00:29:29   but they were great I love them. [TS]

00:29:31   Although I even at the time I thought like me and they were just a couple years too early with the C.G.I. [TS]

00:29:37   Technology they made them when the C.G.I. [TS]

00:29:40   Was was totally passable [TS]

00:29:41   but I even remember thinking at the time like this is not going to look so great in ten years time [TS]

00:29:49   and I think the C.G.I. and These Hobbit films is with us. [TS]

00:29:52   That's impressive then I guess I haven't seen the Hobbit ones I just I feel like I had no interest as soon as I [TS]

00:29:58   discovered that it was I can't even. Two or three movies. Three. [TS]

00:30:03   Yeah I felt that that was the single piece of information that was that just ruled it out in my brain. [TS]

00:30:08   The hobbit could be a good two hour movie. It is not a trilogy. Yeah well I think maybe that is the problem. [TS]

00:30:17   Anyway I was going to have bit of a rant I was hoping that you'd say oh not so great and be really nerdy about Santa [TS]

00:30:24   but there's nothing to be had there so basically that the sum total of my comment that is a sort of movie Last Not that [TS]

00:30:31   I didn't I tell you that my dream I had out of paper got corner so it was a very good down. [TS]

00:30:43   You've got you know you've got to thrive if you have these things out there in the hope that something catches. [TS]

00:30:49   Let me give you some Let me give you my happy color. [TS]

00:30:55   Today there was some excellent news for Liverpool my preferred football team defeated Manchester City. [TS]

00:31:03   Oh yeah three goes to church in a very important game. This was good good good. Anything you want to ask me about. [TS]

00:31:16   Well three to two. [TS]

00:31:19   I do know that [TS]

00:31:20   when I told you earlier also that I was watching football today you said all that's good did your team get the snitch. [TS]

00:31:26   Yeah this is like my field porn. [TS]

00:31:31   You know as I want to ask a question [TS]

00:31:33   but I've already forgot Liverpool versus someone else so it slides out of my brain just only your little watch do you [TS]

00:31:39   ever watch a sport do you watch the Super Bowl. [TS]

00:31:42   Now I do not watch the snow melt [TS]

00:31:44   and he's forgetting something about American football American football I think has to be the most boring televised [TS]

00:31:55   sport in existence. Have have you have you watched an American. [TS]

00:32:00   Yes I know as much to say that I don't usually watch other games [TS]

00:32:04   but I occasionally Well most if I get I think a player I had [TS]

00:32:08   when I was a kid I had a childhood friend who watched football all the time and so we just sort of on [TS]

00:32:15   and I remember thinking they must spend eighty percent of their time just it seems to me standing around like people [TS]

00:32:24   think they're not doing anything. [TS]

00:32:27   The amount of time they spend actually running on the field seems implausibly short compared to how long it's on T.V. [TS]

00:32:37   and I know if I can if I can find it here [TS]

00:32:39   but a couple weeks ago I found some info graphic where someone actually broke down the amount of time that the Super [TS]

00:32:45   Bowl takes including advertising and the pauses and whatever was I think something like. [TS]

00:32:53   Correct me if I'm wrong [TS]

00:32:54   but I think the Super Bowl is broadcast for seven hours in that amount of time there's three minutes of running on the [TS]

00:33:01   field and smashing into each other. It's just unbelievable that anyone can sit through can sit through that. [TS]

00:33:08   I don't I don't understand this. So I do not watch the Super Bowl and they're right. [TS]

00:33:17   I don't I just don't watch sports I mean I know I sort of tease you about. [TS]

00:33:21   I don't mean to bemoan people who follow sports like everybody's into their own thing [TS]

00:33:25   and I'm into stuff that is just would be shockingly boring for other people. [TS]

00:33:30   Like this is what makes the world interesting places. Different people have different interests. [TS]

00:33:34   But I just I can't say I have a lot of interest in any sports I'm trying to think when I know it [TS]

00:33:44   when I was a very little kid my father is not also a into sports kind of guy but [TS]

00:33:50   when I was a little kid my father took me to Yankee Stadium in New York and we had we go watch a baseball game. [TS]

00:33:58   I'm a big Yankees fan. [TS]

00:34:00   Starting all the time and so so we went and we did the thing you go you get like hotdogging sit in the stadium [TS]

00:34:07   and you watch it and we left after a couple of innings because we were both just very bored. [TS]

00:34:13   But my father felt that it was his responsibility as a dad in New York to take me to at least one baseball game. [TS]

00:34:20   But we both were just bored to death. So why are we even friends Greg. [TS]

00:34:30   Well that's I think partly I feel like we're friends [TS]

00:34:36   and OK to have very different friends because you don't you don't want me to watch sports with you I think that would [TS]

00:34:43   be a problem if it sounds like that was huge for anyone to Mount Everest with now [TS]

00:34:49   but you know I'm always happy to talk to you. We're also that we're also work colleagues. [TS]

00:34:53   That's the thing this is like is like Internet water cooler. [TS]

00:34:56   We were doing with the podcast talking about business but I had one other great triumph today. [TS]

00:35:04   I mirror on the wall the great big heavy mirror I am unspeakably that a D.I.Y. [TS]

00:35:13   Around the house and this was the third big mirror that I had to hang [TS]

00:35:18   and the first I had ended up not straight with him [TS]

00:35:23   and these were light days with high stakes mirrors where like you have to put the screw holes into walls before you [TS]

00:35:29   hang the mirror so there's no like fine tuning afterwards you know leaning side by as on the wire this was like you get [TS]

00:35:36   it wrong or you die and I died twice. [TS]

00:35:41   But today this was this I was at the end of my tether and I was like OK I'll try one more [TS]

00:35:46   and then if it doesn't work I'm never doing it again and I hung up and it's straight and it's a thing of beauty [TS]

00:35:55   and dismay and good luck I hope in the mirror. Just look today. Triumphantly and then sat down to watch the football. [TS]

00:36:05   Watch my tame wind it was a real I had a moment to moment and then I sent you the picture of like the mirror [TS]

00:36:12   and the T.V. In the same shop to look at my life is and you say that all went after this value. [TS]

00:36:21   No that is not at all what happened that's what happened. I'm going to pull this up here. [TS]

00:36:25   What actually happened here how I actually did sort of said I think I'm just so distracted by the picture. [TS]

00:36:35   You did say watching sport in a house containing objects. [TS]

00:36:38   Bliss smiley face then and then here is a picture that is a very big mirror that you had to hang up. [TS]

00:36:45   But there are there are a lot of things in this picture one of which I have to ask this is a picture of Brady's house [TS]

00:36:51   by the way next to the T.V. That has the sports game on it you have a phone that is an old style rotary phone. [TS]

00:37:01   Yeah and I am I am suspicious as to whether [TS]

00:37:04   or not this is a functioning phone because it's an odd place in the house to have a phone. [TS]

00:37:08   Well let me let me put your mind a it is a functioning phone. [TS]

00:37:14   Unfortunately because we don't use a landline and we generally want to land on in the house [TS]

00:37:19   but just occasionally you need to let people require them back like we were able to get a mortgage without having a [TS]

00:37:26   land ought to have limits. If I complain about this for a minute. [TS]

00:37:32   Yeah yeah I know that I know this exact thing is because we have just moved in and out and I run into the same thing [TS]

00:37:38   and I got I get into an argument with BT British Telecom because I was I was trying to get something sorted out with [TS]

00:37:45   our with our Internet connection and [TS]

00:37:48   and they were like oh well we're going to we're going to call you on on your landline phone to continue this [TS]

00:37:54   conversation. So I don't have a landline phone I don't have a phone. [TS]

00:38:00   Only in my house and things that are you know with the BT purse [TS]

00:38:03   and I felt like what is this one nine hundred fifty that you have my cell phone number in. [TS]

00:38:08   Like that's why your cult like you accepted this phone call you know it's me. [TS]

00:38:12   It just infuriating that that we have to talk on the phone. [TS]

00:38:15   I don't have a landline phone I don't want to land line phone [TS]

00:38:18   and I don't want to machine in my house that just randomly rings that was that was supposed to be a positive corner [TS]

00:38:27   they were denied you know tended to like another man moan about the companies that exist. [TS]

00:38:34   Oh yeah yeah that's just that just your fundamental personality Bradys are just a winder why I think you like living on [TS]

00:38:40   something you kind of drag that one down the winching on August I just wanted you to say good stuff on the mirror [TS]

00:38:46   or you could say what I want to ask you you good handy man around the house testimony I have I have just moved house. [TS]

00:38:52   I'm sorry that I did not compliment you on your marriage it's very well hung your mirror so you happy now. [TS]

00:39:00   Yes I don't often find the occasion for D.I.Y. [TS]

00:39:04   Stuff so because I guess you don't hang pictures and things do you just have this on the stack what walls [TS]

00:39:10   and you had some pictures in our in our old place and there's a couple that come up now [TS]

00:39:14   but I mean I can I can put a tiny nail in the wall. You do pixel know your house. [TS]

00:39:19   We had if we had a few pictures on the wall. [TS]

00:39:22   Printed on photographic paper like yeah yeah there are a couple pictures that we have we got. [TS]

00:39:28   Like Richard my wife took and we printed out and put it on the walls. [TS]

00:39:31   Not not a whole lot but just just some you know I don't I don't require walls to be totally barren. [TS]

00:39:39   I think pics pictures are fine but because I'm renting most of the D.I.Y. [TS]

00:39:44   Stuff the landlord wouldn't even want you to do it on your own. [TS]

00:39:47   Even back at the jail and really make a mess of things like I don't. [TS]

00:39:50   Yeah so so I would say that in my adult life I have not had a great deal of experience in being able to flex my D.I.Y. [TS]

00:39:57   Muscles because I live in places. [TS]

00:40:00   I do not own someone else owns them [TS]

00:40:02   and they want you to call if there's something that needs fixing because the last thing they want is a tenant who has [TS]

00:40:08   to get electrocuted himself to death in their apartment because he was trying to fix something with the wiring [TS]

00:40:14   or install a new light bulb [TS]

00:40:15   or something else so yeah I think I think that I feel like you seem to see every activity that you can perform [TS]

00:40:22   physically as like you just attach a death risk to it like like we come to my Everest. No I could die. [TS]

00:40:29   Well you drill a hole in the wall. [TS]

00:40:31   I know I could die if I also thought maybe I was the morbid one here but I think I'm not so sure. [TS]

00:40:38   Well first of all I would not say that I could die. [TS]

00:40:42   If you listen to your previous discussion I talk about the increasing probability of death [TS]

00:40:47   and I would help her to keep that small even in activity like sitting in a chair all day [TS]

00:40:54   and never exercising that increases probability of of death in an insidious non visible way. [TS]

00:41:01   So you counter that by exercise or by walking around so it is not that I think of all physical activities as as. [TS]

00:41:11   Death inducing. No no they think of non-physical activities. Jeff That's right. I think everything is different. [TS]

00:41:17   Well everything comes with some probability of death increase or death decrease [TS]

00:41:24   and you have to you have to weigh those concerns you know going to the gym. [TS]

00:41:27   You can die of a heart attack on the treadmill [TS]

00:41:29   but part of it is likely speaking if you're on the if you're in the gym you're exercising that is you're moving death [TS]

00:41:36   further away than you are bringing him closer if you are in the gym even though you can be the unlucky heart attack [TS]

00:41:43   lottery winner on the treadmill at the gym. [TS]

00:41:45   So ironic that you chose the treadmill as the for the analogy of making it appear that way. Yes that's a good point. [TS]

00:41:54   So yeah that's changing. [TS]

00:42:00   It's change the topic to the topic of the day we're going to have on a sound effect here or do we just do it. [TS]

00:42:07   I guess we can we can just do it I'm still not sure about these topics and running I think you said [TS]

00:42:13   but I guess because we don't really have a topic we just have a topic that if we ran out of stuff to say talk about. [TS]

00:42:18   And last time we'd never even did the topic. [TS]

00:42:21   Yeah that's true but I think this time we need to like you know we need we need we need to move on from our lives [TS]

00:42:29   and when something on a grander scale. [TS]

00:42:31   So yes I guess you're right [TS]

00:42:33   and so I there was there was something that I did sort of want to talk about which which I guess could be the topic [TS]

00:42:42   and I have some notes here it might be a little a little scatterbrained. [TS]

00:42:45   So as always I will I will rely on you to ask some questions to help you through this but. [TS]

00:42:51   Because in our previous podcasts we kind of touched on the the world of education [TS]

00:43:00   and listeners will know that I was a teacher [TS]

00:43:03   and I thought I kept putting off some thoughts about education for for a future episode [TS]

00:43:09   and so I think this is this is maybe the time to talk about it [TS]

00:43:13   and I want to phrase this this topic as what does schools really do or you know [TS]

00:43:24   or what is the purpose that schools serve in society [TS]

00:43:32   and that that is very distinct from the question of what do we want schools to do you know [TS]

00:43:39   or what schools should do so that I feel like I don't want to talk about ideal schools I want to just I want to bring [TS]

00:43:50   up what I think is perhaps a very grim view of what schools actually do in society. [TS]

00:43:57   So so rather not what are schools for it to be. [TS]

00:44:00   More like what are schools achieving or what are they [TS]

00:44:03   or not achieving achieving that might be an interesting interesting way to put just those contribute to contribute is. [TS]

00:44:10   an overly optimistic word I.K. [TS]

00:44:16   OK so I already have to turn here that this this is going to be something along the lines of you thinking that schools [TS]

00:44:24   are not doing a brilliant thing for society. [TS]

00:44:30   Well I what I would say is that I think that that schools are not necessarily doing what people say they do. [TS]

00:44:40   Where when you have a conversation about schools or people talk about education [TS]

00:44:44   and education is is one of these topics that I think is it's. [TS]

00:44:49   It's interesting because everybody kind of has this experience right you are a kid and you grew up and [TS]

00:44:55   and you go to school and everybody's experience this sort of in the Western world that school is a huge part of life [TS]

00:45:04   and and so everyone kind of has a vested interest in this game right you're a parent and you send your kid to school [TS]

00:45:12   and then you have memories of what it was like when you were at school and I think this is also why education [TS]

00:45:18   and funding education and teachers [TS]

00:45:22   and teachers unions like there are always very hot political topics because it's the kind of thing that everybody can [TS]

00:45:28   get involved in because everybody has an experience of having gone to school and what what they thought about it [TS]

00:45:35   and they also seem to me like people who are going to schools in the education system etc And that political kind of [TS]

00:45:42   way [TS]

00:45:43   but they're also a bit of a sacred cow skulls on their life like there's uniform agreement that schools are a good thing. [TS]

00:45:51   Yes yes that's what I mean it's a hot topic because it can be argued about from from both sides. [TS]

00:45:58   Schools can be revered. People can can hate their local school system or whatever it is but it's OK. [TS]

00:46:04   It's impossible I think to to not have contention over schools because everybody experiences it in a very direct way [TS]

00:46:13   where there are tons of topics in politics that people just have no interest [TS]

00:46:17   or caring because they didn't spend you know twelve years of their life involved in this thing [TS]

00:46:24   and I know this isn't we're talking about it just reminds me can go line is down to you like for example I don't have [TS]

00:46:31   children but I have a tremendous interest in schools in my area because of how it affects the price of my house. [TS]

00:46:38   Right right. Yeah yeah. [TS]

00:46:40   The ever popular getting into a good school district method of human relocation after child child time yeah it's like [TS]

00:46:50   that that has huge knock on effect for property market. [TS]

00:46:53   If my local school suddenly takes a dive so does my house prices [TS]

00:46:57   and then suddenly I care tremendously about what's going on at my local school. [TS]

00:47:01   Right right that you're not even you don't even have a kid in that school but it's not as effective. [TS]

00:47:05   Yeah that's why every everybody gets kind of tangled up tangled up in this in this system. [TS]

00:47:12   So tell me what you're thinking. Yes So here's here's the starting point from that is. [TS]

00:47:20   Schools are a stance of glee about learning I mean I don't know a more fundamental statement than that to say that [TS]

00:47:28   schools are what we think of as where people go to learn. Yeah right. [TS]

00:47:35   It couldn't be couldn't be more basic than that and the rest learn on that kind of academic level [TS]

00:47:40   or just sort of a socialization type level. [TS]

00:47:43   Yeah learn in the in the broadest sense of the word yet right that's a school where people could learn [TS]

00:47:49   and this is I sort of alluded to it. [TS]

00:47:52   I sort of alluded to this in the previous podcast from my own time as a teacher but. [TS]

00:48:00   Something that if you are paying attention if you're sort of deluding yourself as a teacher you can very quickly pick [TS]

00:48:08   up on the fact that at least from the academic side students are not learning a whole lot in school in terms of actual [TS]

00:48:21   material that you are theoretically teaching so I would do say a year of physics [TS]

00:48:30   and then I would say even after a single summer vacation if kids come back in the next year [TS]

00:48:36   and you start asking them a bunch of physics questions almost all of that information is just completely gone. [TS]

00:48:43   I think of summers as almost a time is like children are able to just shake their brain free of all of the things that [TS]

00:48:49   have been trying to stuffed in them over over the course of an academic year [TS]

00:48:52   and they come back to school right all fresh an empty right you know sometimes the way can kind of feel it as a teacher [TS]

00:48:59   and we do all of this before. [TS]

00:49:01   Shouldn't you have learned and again I have this is for for all subjects [TS]

00:49:07   and I don't say it's not because it sounds a bit familiar to your language bashing from a couple of months ago that [TS]

00:49:13   looks like the same thing about all subjects now. [TS]

00:49:16   Yeah I am putting I'm putting this is not language in particular employment for all subjects [TS]

00:49:22   and I mean I've even seen some some interesting kind like follow up studies. [TS]

00:49:26   Asking post high school graduates a year later in the most basic questions from some of the subjects that they took [TS]

00:49:32   and you know the answers are just dismal. [TS]

00:49:35   You know it's just no better than than a random member of the population know how how much they actually remember from [TS]

00:49:40   a course that they've been through. [TS]

00:49:42   So I think that's that's kind of an interesting thing to note right that schools are supposedly teaching kids all day [TS]

00:49:51   long all kinds of stuff about the world and about literature and about art and about science but they do this in. [TS]

00:50:00   From a Sheehan is just so rapidly lost [TS]

00:50:04   or there's even a question about how much of it did kids ever learn in the first place which again if you are if you [TS]

00:50:10   are a teacher you can definitely see that first hand that it might even be optimistic to talk about this knowledge [TS]

00:50:17   having been lost from some students because there's a presumption that it was ever there in the first place so I think [TS]

00:50:25   that that's that's a this is kind of like a starting point is there is less learning than I think people kind of talk [TS]

00:50:31   about when they talk about schools. [TS]

00:50:34   Yeah [TS]

00:50:34   but a blind man talk if I if I I don't remember I can't remember if you asked me to tell you I learned SCO I can't remember [TS]

00:50:45   all these equations I learnt mathematics and I can't remember these language things [TS]

00:50:48   and I can't remember things about Shakespeare. [TS]

00:50:51   But if I didn't go disco for all that time I don't think I'd be the same guy talking to you than I am now I think I [TS]

00:50:59   think you are throwing away a lot of intangible stuff I think you're throwing away a bit is the kind of missed in the [TS]

00:51:06   component of SCO where the actual just the process of learning is teaches you a lot [TS]

00:51:14   and makes you the person you become. So even though I can't remember exactly. I especially I'm still like. [TS]

00:51:25   I still learned how to learn and I learned how to how to become a fully functioning human [TS]

00:51:33   and I think just applying the simple test of do you remember Newton's equations that I that you were taught last year [TS]

00:51:40   is I think that's just over simplifying learning in education. [TS]

00:51:47   Right now I will grant that there are there are other things that are going on in school [TS]

00:51:53   and I would actually do there are things that kids genuinely learn but I think a statement like. Had I not gone. [TS]

00:52:00   Through school I would be a different person. [TS]

00:52:02   Is is a truism but had you spent twelve years of your life doing anything else that statement would also be true. [TS]

00:52:10   Why do you do I get such a big chunk of time. [TS]

00:52:13   I wouldn't write if impression of an inferior I think I would be not as high functioning. [TS]

00:52:18   OK Yes I think that that's a that's a better statement to say again [TS]

00:52:21   and I think I think that there is there is something to that. [TS]

00:52:27   But so the question about learning I think kind of leans in to what I wanted to bring up about this which is if we if [TS]

00:52:38   we start from the position that schools maybe can't be about learning objective facts right which is something that you [TS]

00:52:45   would agree to it was well it can't be about teaching a whole bunch of kids specific facts that they remember later [TS]

00:52:51   because they because they don't remember it later it's something else something else is kind of going on here [TS]

00:52:59   and this is this would come up in my own classes I think I mentioned this before but kids would ask me you know [TS]

00:53:05   when are we ever going to use this you know we're teaching them physics [TS]

00:53:09   and I would just I would straight up say you're never going to you're never going to use it. [TS]

00:53:14   There is never a butler in Karate Kid. [TS]

00:53:17   DANIEL The very sight it was like when I'm either going to paint the fence [TS]

00:53:21   and Mr Miyagi was like Don't worry this will come in handy you know [TS]

00:53:25   and then it did he had these things ingrained into him that made him like autumn in the final karate tournament skill [TS]

00:53:31   level. [TS]

00:53:32   It's like what am I going to use Newton's equations we might not use use equations [TS]

00:53:35   but trust me this this will help you win the big fight at the end of everything. [TS]

00:53:42   What is the big fight in the end of this analogy. I'm not quite sure are a lot of what you got is a Karate Kid. [TS]

00:53:48   Yeah I could see better now. But let me let me follow through on this right here. [TS]

00:53:56   So this it always lead to a little a little bit. [TS]

00:54:00   Discussion sometimes in classes which is kind of happy to have you never get a lesson so they go Well you know well [TS]

00:54:07   what are we doing here. [TS]

00:54:07   Right here are the teachers tell us stories about how we're going to need this in the future [TS]

00:54:13   or how it's going to help us win the big fight. You know it's eventually going to be useful. [TS]

00:54:17   You know maybe not today but you and I would I would not take that position yet [TS]

00:54:22   and my position is that look the reason the reason you are here you know you're taking this class [TS]

00:54:29   and your goal is to get good grades because those grades are signaling qualities about you to the outside world [TS]

00:54:46   and that is the core of what schools do from a societal perspective they receive. [TS]

00:54:55   That's exactly it they're they're a kind of sieve [TS]

00:54:58   and I think this is this is it's like an unhappy way to look at schools [TS]

00:55:05   but I do think that it is a relatively accurate way to look at schools. [TS]

00:55:12   But but even more so that the simple fact is is very interesting so in. [TS]

00:55:20   If this is comes up in economics sometimes and I want to look at his name. [TS]

00:55:24   I just want to I just want to get it right some of the stuff is based on the some as a mere talk about today is from [TS]

00:55:31   the work of an economist in particular called Bryan Caplan who is talking about what happens to kids in various stages [TS]

00:55:44   of education. [TS]

00:55:45   And so the the key points here that are interesting is OK so you look at this for America if you look at the earnings [TS]

00:55:55   for example you know earnings are not everything but we're trying to get some kind of measure how much too high. [TS]

00:56:00   School graduates earn vs non high school graduates [TS]

00:56:05   and turns out the high school graduates earn about fifty percent more each year than not high school graduates. [TS]

00:56:10   Yeah there's no surprise there [TS]

00:56:12   but it's not like a shocking piece of information I don't think that if you go to high school you can get a better job. [TS]

00:56:19   But the really interesting thing in those statistics is that basically going to a little bit of high school [TS]

00:56:29   or even going to most of high school is just totally worthless in terms of earnings right so if you go to high school [TS]

00:56:39   for three and a half years. [TS]

00:56:42   But you know you miss out on some class in the final year you might as well have not gone to high school at all. [TS]

00:56:47   If you don't get that piece of paper if you don't get that degree [TS]

00:56:51   and Thomason matter that you have done ninety nine percent of the work [TS]

00:56:58   and the interesting thing about that is this is something called you know is called signaling in economics which means [TS]

00:57:04   that that piece of paper is acting as a stamp that says something about you as a person you you made it through all of [TS]

00:57:14   all of this. This this series of hoops that we have put up for you. [TS]

00:57:20   And that piece of paper is is the thing that lets employers for example know that you have made it through all of these [TS]

00:57:26   these hoops but you would expect that if school was preparing you for the real world [TS]

00:57:33   and this is again in the broadest possible way social skills interacting with people just learning how to be a good [TS]

00:57:40   person all of which you know also matters for people's lives and their working experiences. [TS]

00:57:46   You would expect to see more of an effect as people go through high school that three years in that should if school is [TS]

00:57:56   teaching you something anything about you. [TS]

00:58:00   Assistance in the real world three years of high school should be much better than one year of high school so the [TS]

00:58:08   stagnant earnings figures would change that I would be to step jump it would they. [TS]

00:58:12   Yeah [TS]

00:58:12   and so from from the the numbers that I saw blog I think it was something like year one of high school increases your [TS]

00:58:22   earnings ten percent year two is like five percent. [TS]

00:58:25   Year three does nothing and then the remaining chunk of it that gets you up to fifty happens only when you graduate [TS]

00:58:33   and you think there should be more of a linear progression with that [TS]

00:58:36   and it's the same thing for colleges that the earnings difference for going to college was eighty percent versus not [TS]

00:58:46   going to college or people who go to college earn eighty percent or more. And I know I agree with you here. [TS]

00:58:52   I agree that schools have this have the SIV effect in society and that but I do think [TS]

00:58:59   and you acknowledge this yourself. We're talking about money here. [TS]

00:59:03   And when it comes to money and things [TS]

00:59:04   and career opportunities education does have this this role this selective role [TS]

00:59:11   and I know it gets really political After that we talk about money and exclusive schools [TS]

00:59:15   and there's a lot there's a lot that we could talk about and that's not what we are talking about. [TS]

00:59:19   But [TS]

00:59:20   when it comes to some of the other things that can be measured like your ability to make a phone call to the bank to hang [TS]

00:59:29   a mirror to get along in society to raise children to do a lot of the other things that don't involve putting money in [TS]

00:59:36   your pocket. [TS]

00:59:37   I think they're probably there would be a correlation between how much education you had [TS]

00:59:42   and how well you do those things so I think saying that education is not contributing to people unless they you know [TS]

00:59:52   make the next step or get through that next finishing type is unfair and I do think that education in riches people. [TS]

01:00:00   In other ways not just about money and career achievements. Now there is an interesting question in here. [TS]

01:00:10   But let's pick a pick the worst example probably from the bunch that that you just that raising children you know go [TS]

01:00:15   going to college makes you a better parent. [TS]

01:00:19   Neither of which you [TS]

01:00:20   and you're not done we should acknowledge that we're going to I do not have children you do not have children. [TS]

01:00:26   So let's let's talk about children job correctly and that list done to protect some of the parents out there. [TS]

01:00:31   Well yeah I've been to college so I'm going to be a better parent. [TS]

01:00:34   But first let's take that that that statement that question [TS]

01:00:37   or yeah yeah right that that going to college makes you a better parent. [TS]

01:00:42   I don't think going to college make sure that a parent [TS]

01:00:44   or don't you have more years educated well what you're saying is that school is the thing that makes you educated so [TS]

01:00:51   it's the schooling that makes you a better parent. [TS]

01:00:54   That's that's sort of the position that saying they're OK well let's era is what they call it you go with it [TS]

01:01:00   and I think there are other things that can also contribute to have a parent you probably will behave like like your [TS]

01:01:07   parents or other things that happen in your life but there are many things [TS]

01:01:10   but do you think that more years of schooling would make you a better parent. Oh oh. [TS]

01:01:20   Things all other things being all other things being equal. Yeah I think probably you learn. Yeah OK I was OK with yes. [TS]

01:01:28   OK so so that the very interesting thing there is is your comment about all other things being equal. [TS]

01:01:35   Yeah I guess I'm not. [TS]

01:01:37   Neither of us are saying that that this this effect is true [TS]

01:01:40   but we're just using this discussion point the question is do you people who go to college have a better chance of [TS]

01:01:52   being better parents. Or is it the college that makes them in this example better parents. Can I just be clear. [TS]

01:02:00   College means I'm sorry I'm being you know I just wrote in here just after high school like university level. [TS]

01:02:07   OK Well I think I'm not really thinking about say I only went to college for one year myself so then I got a job [TS]

01:02:15   and left. But so you mean like sixth form college. [TS]

01:02:21   None and I started doing a degree and then I got offered a job at a newspaper [TS]

01:02:24   and I said we don't want you to have a degree I would rather train yourselves. [TS]

01:02:27   So there are a lot of save me a few years. Oh I said I'd go back and do a part time job. [TS]

01:02:38   OK OK Well I think why why why would you ever go back. Because I don't need a piece of paper right. [TS]

01:02:47   See this is exactly right that is the only reason you won't go back because there's nothing in your life right now with [TS]

01:02:53   the kind of career that you have that that piece of paper speaks to right that that piece of paper improves you don't [TS]

01:03:01   need that signal to any employer you know or [TS]

01:03:06   or any any person in that kind of position to prove that you're a certain kind of yelps courtesy because I've done the [TS]

01:03:13   jobs and I now can you leave a lot of things and I'm not disagreeing that. There is this exclusive A T C of function. [TS]

01:03:21   This is an elective ity function to education but to take it to the other extreme. [TS]

01:03:26   If [TS]

01:03:26   when I was five years old my parents said we're not going to send you to school Grady we're just going to let you play [TS]

01:03:31   cricket in the backyard and swim in the pool. I definitely would not have got that job at the newspaper. [TS]

01:03:36   So my education is is what gave me that luxury of towards the end they have to decide whether [TS]

01:03:45   or not to finish my degree because I was already you know a person of you know I had abilities and I had knowledge [TS]

01:03:53   and you know I had social skills that I had developed through my time at school and art. Some other. [TS]

01:04:02   If you think Major sping sitting around at home [TS]

01:04:04   and not being schooled author of a school homeschooled would have made no difference. I probably would take issue with. [TS]

01:04:14   Well this is alt and also just totally anecdotally but I I know people who are homeschooled [TS]

01:04:21   and basically left to their own devices who basically became educated people on their own [TS]

01:04:28   and that's of course a non-standard anecdotes of anecdotes not a not a good argument [TS]

01:04:33   but I think there's a there's a question of like what kind of person are you certain kinds of people are inclined [TS]

01:04:37   towards educating themselves so it's not entirely impossible [TS]

01:04:41   but to go back to what you're saying I would say that my view of what you learn in school. [TS]

01:04:48   The earlier school starts the more important it is. [TS]

01:04:53   So I can see kids in primary school [TS]

01:04:55   and I think maybe per hour those are some of the best times people ever spend in schools. [TS]

01:05:00   Yeah because first of all you're learning how to tie your shoes right [TS]

01:05:05   when it is genuinely like I use that every day I don't know [TS]

01:05:08   and yeah I don't know what teacher taught me to tie my shoes [TS]

01:05:11   but that's been great yes the reading one I think is the best bang for the buck ever. [TS]

01:05:16   Humans don't want to learn to read that's not a very natural thing you have to put them especially tiny humans in it in [TS]

01:05:21   a constrained environment where you're just going to learn this is not going to like it [TS]

01:05:26   but we know we know we know better for you [TS]

01:05:28   and also I think in primary school I think it is very obvious if you are hanging out with primary school kids they're [TS]

01:05:35   learning how to not be animals. [TS]

01:05:41   They're learning you can't bite someone when you're angry you know they're they're learning. [TS]

01:05:46   You can't just pee on the floor you know or like if you're going to throw up you have to go to the bathroom. [TS]

01:05:52   They're learning just not to be tiny tiny animals. [TS]

01:05:55   I'm just thank you for nothing and one time and you can watch where everyone has a. [TS]

01:06:00   But I like I love that as a slogan for a SCO to see if you can go where we will teach you not to be an animal. [TS]

01:06:07   Yes but that's I think that that is what primary school is doing [TS]

01:06:11   and it's you know we're putting these little kids under all these constraints where their brains have to learn like you [TS]

01:06:17   I mean so unnatural for a little kid [TS]

01:06:19   but well you know welcome to the world you're going to have to sit indoors in a room for long periods of time [TS]

01:06:25   and you're not going to want to do it but we're going to get this started right away [TS]

01:06:28   and that's that's kind of what primary school is and by the time you get to say a secondary school [TS]

01:06:35   or high school kids have gotten used to that. [TS]

01:06:37   They're there they're familiar with this and they're kind of like the statements of the kind of changes. [TS]

01:06:45   Yeah but you still looting other things you're learning how to. [TS]

01:06:50   Talk to Girls [TS]

01:06:51   or you're learning how to interact with adults because at that point you start having a different dynamic with the [TS]

01:06:56   teachers and you know you start learning more subtle things about human interaction that's a bit less biased [TS]

01:07:04   and don't bite people. [TS]

01:07:05   Yeah don't pee on the floor but I think through school that stuff's always going on that socialization [TS]

01:07:11   but I'll bet also probably at the education level that things starts happening you learn how to rather than learning [TS]

01:07:17   how to read and write. You learn how to persuade or to make an argument. [TS]

01:07:22   So even though you don't remember the argument you made about Hamlet you were learning how to make an argument in that [TS]

01:07:28   essay that you were writing for your teacher that's what I mean about learning to learn and learning to do things. [TS]

01:07:34   So even though you don't remember facts [TS]

01:07:35   and figures that those things that you picked up at that time I think stick with you make you what you are later on [TS]

01:07:43   whether or not there's an alternative to school. [TS]

01:07:45   Well you go ahead and put one to me but I think school does serve that purpose. [TS]

01:07:49   Here here is here's again like my counter feeling to this which is what the learning to learn. [TS]

01:08:00   Argument I would say that when I [TS]

01:08:03   when I have this discussion with people which obviously can get heated discussion this is this is not you know this is [TS]

01:08:11   not for you particular [TS]

01:08:12   but in general the people who are you learning to learn are people who generally had positive experiences in school. [TS]

01:08:22   They are the people who were academically successful they are the people who applied to and got into universities. [TS]

01:08:31   It's an argument that comes from a particular section of the school age population or the educated population. [TS]

01:08:42   I'm not convinced necessarily that schools teach kids how to learn how to learn. [TS]

01:08:51   I think that's that's it's a kind of personality trait in certain kinds of kids which can be brought out by schools. [TS]

01:09:02   It could be brought out by all kinds of other things as well [TS]

01:09:05   but I think that it's it's it's wrong to say that the school is the thing that teaches that. [TS]

01:09:14   And part of this is just looking at you know dropout rates from schools. [TS]

01:09:20   Yeah I know it's a high school dropout rates you know roughly it's ten percent of kids go to high school in America [TS]

01:09:26   drop out. It's relatively low. [TS]

01:09:29   But then when you look at kids who go to kids who apply to [TS]

01:09:34   and are accepted to college you know forty percent of them don't make it out with a bachelor's degree within six years [TS]

01:09:42   or if they withdraw [TS]

01:09:44   and you're already talking about a relatively small portion of the population who goes to college anyway which is in [TS]

01:09:50   the U.S. In the U.K. [TS]

01:09:51   It's about thirty percent of the population twenty five to thirty percent has college degrees [TS]

01:09:57   and so I just I feel like. The learning to learn argument I just don't think it is convincing. [TS]

01:10:03   I think you mean like a personality trait [TS]

01:10:06   and it has made us sort of fit into you know you some scotched any argument before I could make it by saying that I [TS]

01:10:13   think laced [TS]

01:10:14   but I think maybe the best way for you to persuade me of what you're trying to get across here is give me an alternative [TS]

01:10:22   give me an alternative that will give society all the things it needs that doesn't involve schools. [TS]

01:10:29   Well done [TS]

01:10:29   and I'm here this is this is why I want to bound this argument in the beginning I am trying to make a sort of value [TS]

01:10:38   neutral argument that this this is what schools do. [TS]

01:10:43   I don't even necessarily think it's bad because in some sense right that like so. [TS]

01:10:50   So flip it around with students and things [TS]

01:10:52   but if you talk about employers employers need some kind of way to filter out people who who apply for jobs [TS]

01:11:01   or anything I want to find a way to discriminate. [TS]

01:11:04   That's exactly it and you know like that's that's the harsh reality of life. [TS]

01:11:08   If you post a job and you get two hundred job applications you need some way to filter those things down [TS]

01:11:13   and if you're applying for. If you're. [TS]

01:11:17   If you want a relatively that let's OK let's say you're you you're you have a job [TS]

01:11:23   and you're looking for a smart person. [TS]

01:11:26   Now you get a whole bunch of applications more likely than not the people who went to college [TS]

01:11:33   and graduated college are probably smarter than the people who failed out of high school. [TS]

01:11:39   Now that's not to say that everybody who failed out of high school isn't smart. [TS]

01:11:45   But it's like it's like the death thing we were talking about before. It's a statistics game. [TS]

01:11:49   You have you have to play the odds here and you're going to pick the college educated person. [TS]

01:11:55   I also think very interesting Leigh that the other thing is. [TS]

01:12:00   Getting stamped on to kids by you have past high school step you have passed college step isn't actually necessarily [TS]

01:12:07   primarily intelligence. [TS]

01:12:10   I think it's it's largely a certain kind of conscientiousness that's really the bard to pass with high school [TS]

01:12:20   and with college. Can you keep track of all of these assignments that we have given you. [TS]

01:12:25   Are you able to show up a certain amount of times or are you are you able to. We're giving you assignments. [TS]

01:12:33   Are you able to do enough of those assignments to the specifications that are required. [TS]

01:12:38   I actually think that's kind of the primary thing that schools are really testing kids for certified like a fifteen [TS]

01:12:48   year stickability test. Yes this is exactly right and that's this is one of the reasons why why in school so long. [TS]

01:12:55   Because your work life is long and boring [TS]

01:12:58   and we need to make sure that you are a person who has proven they are able to you know do a long and boring routine [TS]

01:13:05   and you're able to make your way through it and get it and get certified. [TS]

01:13:08   Now again this is not to say that people don't learn anything that people don't learn things in school. [TS]

01:13:15   That's that's not my argument I don't nothing is is learned but I think the primary purpose [TS]

01:13:22   or the primary function of schools in a society is to act as a kind of filter. [TS]

01:13:30   But that kind of approval process for people entering the labor market [TS]

01:13:37   and that's that's why there's such a high premium on graduating whereas attending some college is is almost as as [TS]

01:13:49   worthless as doing no college at all. [TS]

01:13:51   There's a little bit of a benefit but not a huge benefit when you're looking at the at the population as a whole. So. [TS]

01:13:58   And I guess. [TS]

01:14:00   I mention this because I always really like talking to students when I could [TS]

01:14:08   and I think a lot of kids ask me about universities and jobs [TS]

01:14:13   and I think it's because maybe I gave more direct answers than some other teachers gave sometimes. [TS]

01:14:22   And [TS]

01:14:22   and I would say that there was a certain there's a certain kind of kid particularly a certain kind of both conscientious [TS]

01:14:31   kids [TS]

01:14:32   and both very smart kids who it felt like they were able to deal with school a lot better if they kind of faced the true [TS]

01:14:42   nature of it that like what you know what this is is a certification process. [TS]

01:14:47   You know we are certifying that at some point you were diligent enough to be able to get through some difficult classes. [TS]

01:14:56   We're not expecting you to remember this stuff later. [TS]

01:15:00   And I just felt like some some kids really reacted very well to that of kind of understanding oh OK this is the game [TS]

01:15:09   that's going on here. I think kids don't react well to that how they kids a home that is bad information. [TS]

01:15:15   I know what I would say is that the other reactions that I got were either just. [TS]

01:15:22   Sort of a laughing kind of incredulity. Oh he's being silly. [TS]

01:15:27   You know he's [TS]

01:15:28   and I have to say if I was if I was talking to kids one on one it's a slightly different conversation if I'm doing it [TS]

01:15:33   in front of the whole class. [TS]

01:15:35   But if I was talking to a group of kids I'd do it in kind of a I do it in kind of a funnier way so it can be played off [TS]

01:15:42   as like oh maybe I'm not being entirely serious but you can see some kids were like Oh I think he does really mean. [TS]

01:15:49   So I would say either you get a kind of you know this is this is really funny or just kind of indifference [TS]

01:15:57   but yeah I I thought that there were definitely kid. [TS]

01:16:00   Those who received this information well and felt like school made more sense. [TS]

01:16:06   It was more understandable [TS]

01:16:08   and it was it was more tolerable than this kind of implicit impression that kids have of like we're teaching you all of [TS]

01:16:17   these things so that you know these things but you won't you won't know these things in a year. [TS]

01:16:23   Yeah [TS]

01:16:23   and I was I was always really up front about that with the kids because my funny kids will assume that because you're a [TS]

01:16:29   teacher you know all the things [TS]

01:16:31   and all the other subjects which is just always Larry is in the equivalent of home room at the start of the day care [TS]

01:16:36   when I'm just in charge of a bunch of kids in there are frantically trying to do their homework at the last minute of [TS]

01:16:40   course you know they would ask me questions about what I would say I don't know anything at all about that subject I [TS]

01:16:46   don't remember this in the slightest. [TS]

01:16:48   And they they be horrified you know your teacher you went to school you're supposed to be one of the students. [TS]

01:16:52   So yeah [TS]

01:16:53   but I don't remember that you know I didn't it doesn't matter what mattered was that I I was able to do it at the time [TS]

01:17:00   and I had the certification sat I have passed high school which makes me trustworthy enough to Bosler you guys around. [TS]

01:17:07   Yes OK if you are right if you are right about this why school not to try to sway Why is it why has it got this other [TS]

01:17:13   spin to it why. Why isn't school betrayed is this particular T. [TS]

01:17:18   Test this conscientiousness test I mean I mean I think it is that it was rhetorical you know because this is not. [TS]

01:17:29   So I think this is an accurate view of the world but this is not a view of the world that people want to have. [TS]

01:17:36   People don't want to think you know let's let's take some some some college graduate people don't want to think oh I [TS]

01:17:43   spent sixteen years undergoing an enduring test right to prove that I was able to do it. [TS]

01:17:51   You want you want to think oh I went to college and I learned how to think [TS]

01:17:55   and I learned all of these these other skills and that was that. Like that's the explicit. [TS]

01:18:00   State what you think that makes a sane Mandane follow up doesn't make it pointless. [TS]

01:18:04   Let people know that [TS]

01:18:06   when they finish a marathon because they they showed this great faith of insurance why not be thrown out. [TS]

01:18:11   Yeah yeah I think the insurance the insurance one there is is is an interesting comparison yes. [TS]

01:18:19   Not to people value mental insurance less than physical endurance I would say maybe so maybe rightly so. [TS]

01:18:27   Physical insurance just seems much more natively impressive [TS]

01:18:31   but I also think this is the kind of thing where again thinking about my time as a teacher I would say that I was I was [TS]

01:18:42   sometimes relatively unpopular in conversations with other teachers in the staff room because. [TS]

01:18:50   As a teacher you want to have this feeling of like oh I am I'm Cheech I'm shaping the next generation [TS]

01:18:56   and inspiring a bunch of young minds right and they're all they're learning all these things for me when we met [TS]

01:19:01   when we did the podcast a couple of weeks ago about whether or not learning languages was a good thing [TS]

01:19:08   and you knew you were going to get some flak like you what you even you were braced for a backlash. [TS]

01:19:14   Yes Do you think what you're saying here will upset people in the same way [TS]

01:19:20   or do you think people will say he's talking sense of the education system is just it's a sea of perspective a day so [TS]

01:19:26   that institutions and or employers can discriminate later on. That's that's a really good question. [TS]

01:19:34   That's a really good question [TS]

01:19:36   and I almost feel like I how could this topic be controversial in some ways like I can be of both lives about this like [TS]

01:19:49   if I could start to feel like look into your heart of hearts with the experience that that I had I had as as a teacher [TS]

01:19:57   is is kind of. [TS]

01:20:02   It's as a general policy I find there have been opinions that I have [TS]

01:20:09   or positions that I have come to in my life that I have not wanted to come to [TS]

01:20:15   but I feel like I have I have been forced into them through experience [TS]

01:20:22   and then through reading up on that kind of experience. I didn't I didn't set out to find this out. [TS]

01:20:29   I feel like I was pushed into this by experience [TS]

01:20:34   and so that's why I almost feel like it's it's in some ways it's remarkably uncontroversial. [TS]

01:20:41   It will upset a lot of changes. Yeah it probably will but I will say again like I was a teacher. [TS]

01:20:49   I was I was one of you. The thing that I was I was going to come back to back to earlier. [TS]

01:20:56   We're talking about the benefits of school is there is there's a term which is called warehousing [TS]

01:21:03   and in this case schools are warehousing students at their warehouse in kids and what's the benefit you get from that. [TS]

01:21:14   Again from a societal perspective it's not like almost It doesn't have anything to do with what's happening to the kids [TS]

01:21:20   in the box that you put them the anonymous benefit to society is like. [TS]

01:21:25   State provided daycare for all children and what does that mean. [TS]

01:21:29   Parents like their their labor is freed up or I think they can go to work [TS]

01:21:34   and their kids are taken care of for a huge portion of the year [TS]

01:21:40   and this is like another kind of benefit that that school provides. [TS]

01:21:44   You imagine a world without school where parents had to provide their own daycare for a kid like me would just be [TS]

01:21:48   terrible right. Obviously you need to do something with kids all day long. [TS]

01:21:54   But once we pass child labor laws and you can't have them working in factories anymore which again is a good thing. [TS]

01:22:00   You need to have them go somewhere [TS]

01:22:01   and school is the place that they go so this is another kind of effect that you get from schools is is being able to [TS]

01:22:11   put the kids somewhere. [TS]

01:22:12   And we often tell ourselves that they're learning a whole bunch of stuff all day long in there because it's better than [TS]

01:22:19   thinking of them as as in like a little box [TS]

01:22:22   or you know in like a little prison which would be even a worse way to put it. [TS]

01:22:26   But schools have remarkably similar to prison sometimes. Can I say to my sister who is a schoolteacher. [TS]

01:22:33   Yeah I think she's brilliant. [TS]

01:22:36   I'm sure she is not enough I'm going to send this on in some ways I want to hear what she has to say [TS]

01:22:41   and otherwise I will also I have to I have to defend myself here as well as for a little moment which is that I do know [TS]

01:22:51   for many many a parent teacher conferences parents were were very happy to have their kids in my class it's people [TS]

01:22:58   thinking I was some kind of awful unpopular grumpy teacher like my own experience was that parents were very happy if [TS]

01:23:06   their kids were in my physics class and I know kids who really like being in my physics. So I wasn't a mean teacher. [TS]

01:23:12   This doesn't this doesn't stem from disliking being a teacher. I really enjoyed the classroom time. [TS]

01:23:21   I thought that was great. [TS]

01:23:22   I tried to have lessons that were relatively fun of course you have these horrible constraints as a teacher about what [TS]

01:23:27   you can and can't do but. Like that that part of being in the classroom and teaching. [TS]

01:23:32   I really liked [TS]

01:23:33   and I think as best as possible with a subject like physics I think I tried to make it as interesting as possible for [TS]

01:23:40   the students who were there [TS]

01:23:41   but that I said that still doesn't change the fact that I don't expect any of the kids that I taught six years ago to [TS]

01:23:48   necessarily remember anything that we did. [TS]

01:23:52   But I know that the kids did well on exams and then hopefully they went off to university and some of them have reeled. [TS]

01:24:00   Out in the in the real world now. [TS]

01:24:03   Well I think if you put it out there and I actually like I said I actually really agree with it [TS]

01:24:09   when I was talking to Mrs number five and I said Gray wants to talk about what's the purpose of schools. [TS]

01:24:15   She said Well I think it's learning [TS]

01:24:18   and socialization of young people the first thing I did think to myself was you know I think it's also this kind of [TS]

01:24:25   this selectivity process yeah. [TS]

01:24:27   So I do agree I do agree that schools serve this purpose of separating the wheat from the chaff. [TS]

01:24:33   However family you think they do that or not which is a whole lot of subject matter. [TS]

01:24:37   Yeah I mean that's I think we can get a lot of economics and class [TS]

01:24:41   and all sorts of unfair things that we got is that the terribly unfair thing. [TS]

01:24:47   They're just with that with that one final thing about the selectivity thing you know you know how you mentioned about [TS]

01:24:54   if the if the school in your neighborhood really takes a dive you know it affects you or your property values. [TS]

01:25:00   And everybody has this experience of sort of good schools and bad schools and. [TS]

01:25:06   Why why I would definitely say that teachers do have an impact on whether a school is a good school [TS]

01:25:14   or a bad school just leaving those terms undefined for the moment. [TS]

01:25:17   Teachers definitely contribute to that in terms of like the emotional environment of the school [TS]

01:25:23   and all these kinds of things [TS]

01:25:25   but I was also in some of my schools sort of involved in in the application process of students because I worked at [TS]

01:25:34   private schools. [TS]

01:25:37   And so it was always always felt so bad for them but it was like kids would come in [TS]

01:25:43   and they'd have to sit these exams and we give them exams in math and English [TS]

01:25:47   and you know in England they're coming in and they're I don't know whether they're nine [TS]

01:25:51   or ten years old you know trying to apply for a school that they'll go to and they're just so small [TS]

01:25:56   and I saw you poor thing coming in here taking this test. [TS]

01:26:00   There is the human moment where you see these tiny people marching off to an exam that's going to change possibly the [TS]

01:26:07   whole rest of their life you know depending on what what what secondary school or high school they get into. [TS]

01:26:14   So that's one side of it than the other side of it was that I would have to mark a lot of these exams [TS]

01:26:22   and that again was a very interesting thing to see because the schools are marking these exams [TS]

01:26:31   and you can see just how I mean I would say like ninety percent of the academic results of a school are determined at [TS]

01:26:43   this moment. Right how many of the kids. How many kids do we get. [TS]

01:26:48   Who got the best scores on these exams to come to our school. [TS]

01:26:53   Right that that it's just the difference in papers between the best kids in the worst kids even at age nine is is kind [TS]

01:27:01   of astounding and you know I just I just think when you talk about a good school [TS]

01:27:06   and this is where the inequality of the world really really comes into play a good school in terms of academics. [TS]

01:27:13   I mean it's got to be a ninety percent effect just on the selection of the students they let in if you let in more [TS]

01:27:21   academically inclined students you are going to have much better results. [TS]

01:27:25   You know five years down the line when they have to take their their their exams [TS]

01:27:30   and then again it's like boy you don't you don't want to see that you want to think that that a school can just take in [TS]

01:27:39   a bunch of kids and like turn them all around and let them learn how to learn and they're going to be amazing results. [TS]

01:27:45   But schools we're definitely competing very hard to get the kids who did the best on those exams [TS]

01:27:54   and that there's a reason why schools private schools really want to get to the top. [TS]

01:28:00   But Cheever is that they can because those that just brings up the results [TS]

01:28:04   and you can see that even at a very young age [TS]

01:28:06   and again like I don't I didn't want to believe this you know that that like oh kids nine like What can their test [TS]

01:28:13   scores possibly show about how they're going to do later on [TS]

01:28:17   but I mean those even at that age like their test scores are very predictive of how they're going to do five years [TS]

01:28:22   later which is which is disappointing and also I think you know again should should not be the case. [TS]

01:28:28   If those kids are really learning how to learn in schools I think the goodness of the school is in large part a [TS]

01:28:35   selection function it's not what happens in the walls function at least again [TS]

01:28:40   and in terms of academics so you seem to be reluctant to touch on this in May because it's such a big subject for [TS]

01:28:46   another day but you've kind of the trade schools. I mean. It's not I guess you haven't betrayed them negatively. [TS]

01:28:56   Well you have to try to negatively but you would as you would say honestly. [TS]

01:28:59   But do you have like this alternative in Montauk is is this is this just the best we can do with you know these huge [TS]

01:29:07   populations who have unlimited labor markets and things or have is they're like are you hinting at something better. [TS]

01:29:14   Well I think a better system is is a conversation for a different time. [TS]

01:29:19   I would just say that some of the hesitation you probably hear especially with this last section is just that [TS]

01:29:26   when you're a working teacher there is an enormous pressure within the school system to kind of not acknowledge [TS]

01:29:37   differences between students you know. [TS]

01:29:40   So you're just you're just under a lot of pressure to never really discuss that like this girl is clearly smarter than [TS]

01:29:49   this other kid and I'm like it's it is sort of the it's like teachers all know this. [TS]

01:30:00   But the management feeling [TS]

01:30:01   or at least the line that that management often portrays is you are not helping that dumb kid anough like [TS]

01:30:09   and some kids are just dumb. [TS]

01:30:11   Right like I'm sorry world [TS]

01:30:13   but it's true you know like if you know you had a referee for a football match saying that caution is in Sudan is such [TS]

01:30:21   a much better football than Terry Andreas [TS]

01:30:24   and then you'd be like well hang on you're supposed to be the one neutral person who doesn't think X. [TS]

01:30:29   Is better than oh yeah yeah yeah. [TS]

01:30:32   I'm not necessarily saying that's a bad thing [TS]

01:30:35   but I still I still feel some of this kind of lingering teacher hesitation to talk about things in a particular way [TS]

01:30:44   and so that's that's why you know if you as a working teacher if you're ever in a meeting like suggested that someone [TS]

01:30:51   was just not very bright. [TS]

01:30:54   You know it's not that does not go down well for your professional career you know you need to kind of toe the line [TS]

01:31:03   that they're like oh you know maybe there's more ways that I could help this student you know perhaps by you know [TS]

01:31:09   writing their answers for them on a piece of paper is like the best way to help them so that I get the part of the [TS]

01:31:16   hesitation I feel is just is. Yeah. [TS]

01:31:19   Is that lingering feeling of when I worked as a teacher [TS]

01:31:21   and how to how to talk in meetings about what's going on in classrooms [TS]

01:31:27   but yeah I'm not I'm not suggesting right now any kind of alternative. [TS]

01:31:31   I'm just looking at it and I feel like this is and this is like a neutral assessment of school [TS]

01:31:37   but I made this mistake the judge of that. [TS]

01:31:40   Yet e-mail Brady It was more interesting than I thought it was going to be an essay so I thank you for sharing your [TS]

01:31:47   honest and and and severing your relationship was a few remaining former teachers who you were friends with. [TS]

01:31:53   Yeah well at least according to my clock we've been recording for one hour and fifty six minutes. [TS]

01:31:59   So much at this meeting. [TS]