Hello Internet

H.I. #7: Sorry, Language Teachers


00:00:00   Well I found this is editing out song. [TS]

00:00:07   We have five new countries that have left reviews for us in i Tunes [TS]

00:00:12   and this week it is Bella Ruse China Malta Slovenia and Uruguay. [TS]

00:00:18   So again it's awesome to collect more countries we really have quite a full roster now of places that have left i Tunes [TS]

00:00:26   reviews or just want to say thanks to everyone and thanks to everyone from those countries who left a review [TS]

00:00:32   when you just got China. [TS]

00:00:33   I was surprised that we only just got China [TS]

00:00:36   and I was almost wondering if the i Tunes store was even available in China. [TS]

00:00:40   I wasn't sure if it was like You Tube which I don't know that the Internet is aware or not [TS]

00:00:44   but You Tube is not available in China so I was wondering if maybe the i Tunes store wasn't available in China [TS]

00:00:50   but that we now do you have the most populous nation on earth. [TS]

00:00:54   Added to our collection of countries now breaking into big markets now. [TS]

00:01:00   Yes Yes They're going to take off going to take off. [TS]

00:01:03   We're going to capture all of that China market [TS]

00:01:05   and certainly we might have to start doing a China version of the podcast where we do the whole thing again speaking in [TS]

00:01:11   Mandarin or something. Yes yes that will never happen. So the last podcast was about e-mailing. [TS]

00:01:22   Yes and you gave some advice about a man I think that I personally found really useful when [TS]

00:01:27   and I some of the viewers did and then I sort of went up in my estimations is a name I had. [TS]

00:01:32   Thank you and then last night he sent me like I guess maybe for a normal person it would be and I came out. [TS]

00:01:42   But some crazy like very alone for you a bit rambling you didn't apologize for it in the mouth agape any rethinking of [TS]

00:01:51   the thing. No I'm just tired very tired and you were last on my email queue. [TS]

00:02:00   And I thought I was being much more rational than I was [TS]

00:02:03   but yes I did rather a rambling e-mail that did not make a whole lot of sense and I thought in the morning [TS]

00:02:10   and I was slightly embarrassed [TS]

00:02:11   and yes that was that was perfectly timed to come after the show about sending efficient emails so I was for that like [TS]

00:02:18   some some sort a Kickstarter a crass campaign [TS]

00:02:21   and if people give enough money I will like share with the world now I don't think that's necessary [TS]

00:02:26   and I don't think we need to do that now. We could skip we can get one. [TS]

00:02:31   What else is going on then have it was a been much else much else in the feedback I've been following the red it's been [TS]

00:02:36   it's been good for us. [TS]

00:02:38   Yes I have I've been following the Reddit as well and I think we both commented upon it in the show notes. [TS]

00:02:44   Someone left an absolutely hilarious image that I want to find out whoever left this image I need to know where this is [TS]

00:02:52   from but this is Harry's image under just what the link said. C G P gray visits Brady in his house. [TS]

00:03:01   When you click the link it go to this comical picture of this robot standing in a cave man's dwelling. [TS]

00:03:10   I'm looking at it now and fix it and it is absolutely perfect. [TS]

00:03:15   I know talking about a photo is not excellent podcast fodder and I do recommend people go and have a look people O.S.O. [TS]

00:03:22   To see G.P. Going look like. [TS]

00:03:24   Funnily enough for some strange reason this does look like you like that robe is somehow kept as you I don't know how I [TS]

00:03:34   think I want to know I think that's why it's that's why it's funny is I can look at that robot too [TS]

00:03:39   and feel like I am kin to this creature that we're on we're on the same level there. [TS]

00:03:45   So whoever does how does the caveman as well has kind of low matted ginger hair sort of adds to the brightness of him [TS]

00:03:53   as well. Yes Yes I don't have quite such impressive biceps unfortunately but yes so what. [TS]

00:04:00   I'm going to show notes people can check that out [TS]

00:04:01   and if someone can tell us where the original poster can tell us we have had from I'm really curious. [TS]

00:04:06   It looks like it's from some T.V. [TS]

00:04:08   Show in the sixty's maybe I don't know exactly but I'd be really curious to know the origins of that image [TS]

00:04:14   and under I and I think until Ryan is the person who posted it so hopefully they're listening. [TS]

00:04:20   Yes thanks to him or her. [TS]

00:04:22   That was hilarious and it really made my screen today so I'm looking at it through the park [TS]

00:04:30   and look into those gray like what else what else. [TS]

00:04:35   From follow up I don't know if I should mention this now [TS]

00:04:41   but you did ask a question which I never really got around to answering in the previous one [TS]

00:04:47   but you asked me some examples of. Terrible e-mails that I get. Worst practice yet worst practices. [TS]

00:04:55   Just [TS]

00:04:55   when I was going through my e-mail of the day I just made a note of some of the e-mails I do get so just very quickly [TS]

00:05:01   some of my least favorite things to get are the sort of e-mail that people write where apparently random words in the [TS]

00:05:10   sentence are kept flocks they're written in all caps and it's like these people want to use italics [TS]

00:05:18   but instead they just use all caps and so you read it as though they're sort of shouting every fifth or sixth word. [TS]

00:05:24   I get enough of those usually from people who are very angry about something that I've mentioned [TS]

00:05:28   and that they think is right or wrong. [TS]

00:05:33   So that's that's an an example of creating an example of of a professional one that here tapes heck out of me is [TS]

00:05:40   sending e-mails to schedule phone calls [TS]

00:05:44   or meetings without actually telling me anything at all about what we were going to have a phone call [TS]

00:05:49   or a meeting about. That's a very bad practice. [TS]

00:05:53   Just say the ones that I get the most often which I do delete them just. Right away. [TS]

00:06:00   But I almost feel like you know good try good try kid. [TS]

00:06:04   Is kids in school basically asking me to write essays for them on a particular topic which happens often enough some [TS]

00:06:13   kid will literally send me like a scanned image of his homework assignment [TS]

00:06:19   and say you know I need to write a three hundred word essay on this particular topic would you mind doing that for me. [TS]

00:06:27   Obviously I'm not going to do that but you know what. [TS]

00:06:29   Almost like props to you for asking but delete immediately it takes you six weeks to write a script. [TS]

00:06:35   Alums are going to take you to going to school if you ever see the thing is with a school essay if I did write it I. [TS]

00:06:39   would have no incentive to do it well at all. Enough of us saying oh no I'm not the one is going to get the D. [TS]

00:06:45   Wouldn't be my fault. [TS]

00:06:46   The whole the whole category of e-mails that I get because of making mathematics videos of people [TS]

00:06:53   or science videos in general really people who have serious people who like to think they have discovered a perpetual [TS]

00:07:01   motion on you know a new form of nuclear energy [TS]

00:07:05   and then it sort of all if you like yeah that's OK A lot of them that has spiked this week that I made a video about [TS]

00:07:11   the Riemann Hypothesis which is the sort of the greatest unsolved puzzle now in mathematics. [TS]

00:07:16   And inevitably I started getting e-mails now from people who. [TS]

00:07:21   I think that possibly correct [TS]

00:07:24   and of course I'm in no position to know if I've cracked on it puts me in a difficult position to eye to eye to late to [TS]

00:07:30   I say that for to a mathematician [TS]

00:07:32   and therefore become you know from the craziness of myself in every forwarding on no this is difficult for this at all. [TS]

00:07:38   Delete is the correct and this is not this is something to ponder or feel anxiety over it [TS]

00:07:44   but imagine if you had got a letter from REM in Asian [TS]

00:07:47   and just said the late you know sometimes you going to have a look and see if there's any gold in there. [TS]

00:07:52   No no you do not not when people are sending you math proofs e-mail to you who they should know is not. [TS]

00:08:00   Actually you know the professor who can necessarily verify this thing. [TS]

00:08:06   Well actually I don't know if you've come across it I was just reading I was reading an interesting book called Average [TS]

00:08:14   is over by Tyler Cowen I think is the author's name [TS]

00:08:19   but in it he mentions this thing about how with a lot of modern math proofs for something like the the Riemann [TS]

00:08:27   conjecture that there basically isn't even any individual human who can know if this is true [TS]

00:08:36   or not any more than that for these big math proofs. [TS]

00:08:40   What the math community does is that they they break it down into the smallest pieces they can inform that off to a [TS]

00:08:48   whole bunch of experts in those individual areas who then everyone has to come back with a consensus about whether [TS]

00:08:54   or not their part is correct [TS]

00:08:56   and kind of come to a community decision about whether all these pieces fit together to prove the thing as a whole I [TS]

00:09:02   don't know if you come across that but I I found that interesting just to think about like boy. [TS]

00:09:07   It's not like you can eat someone can even just send in a proof [TS]

00:09:11   and one person can necessarily really work it out on their own. [TS]

00:09:16   I mean even something like Poincare never cite correctly point where conjecture you know though [TS]

00:09:22   and yeah I was one of the only one of the seven Millennium Problems that has been so. [TS]

00:09:26   And even that was sort of just it was solved by attrition in many ways I mean they solved it for all the different [TS]

00:09:31   dimensions [TS]

00:09:32   and then eventually the NE dimension they couldn't so awful was the third dimension so that became the Holy Grail in [TS]

00:09:39   this guy code to tell you that was not Hamilton came up with a way to do it using Ricci Flow But then finally Perlman [TS]

00:09:50   who ended up getting all the glory came up with this surgery technique that he applied to the Ricci Flow that made it [TS]

00:09:57   so verbose so you know even even when it. Not a big tame doing it. [TS]

00:10:01   It's usually one person building on all these other all these other things and I'm one of the reason it's home [TS]

00:10:07   and gave for rejecting the Millennium Promise was he felt like you shouldn't be giving this prize to one person you [TS]

00:10:13   know I couldn't have done it without Hamilton's work [TS]

00:10:17   and I'm not totally convinced in some of the mathematicians I speak to it totally convinced that's the only reason he [TS]

00:10:24   rejected the million dollars but it's certainly reason he gave. [TS]

00:10:28   Yes I think that that one was actually mentioned in the in the book that I was reading as an example of a proof that [TS]

00:10:35   had to be farmed out to a whole bunch of people to try to figure out you know this is even correct. [TS]

00:10:40   That's the only thing I might mention here is that a lot of people commented on how serious I got at the end of the [TS]

00:10:49   last. [TS]

00:10:50   Yes and little how I might have noticed that I can see when I was talking this was [TS]

00:10:55   when I was talking about my my addiction to checking my email. Yes. [TS]

00:10:59   Yeah that's what you were talking about and I guess I can hear it in my own voice [TS]

00:11:03   but enough people commented on Reddit that they noticed the swing in my tone to suddenly very serious tone. [TS]

00:11:12   And yes it is true I just want to make a little a little comment about that about why I want to say this [TS]

00:11:18   but this one's a serious [TS]

00:11:19   but Internet addiction email addiction Twitter addiction even there you said a little bit more serious shopping. [TS]

00:11:27   So I don't want to be an after school special you know. Listen you know we all had fun today. [TS]

00:11:33   But e-mail a Sirius radio for a few of your friends along here to talk on the podcast as well we want to speak to you [TS]

00:11:39   about this problem. Yeah I guess I try to say that without that it really is. [TS]

00:11:45   But the but the reason that I do I do take that stuff very seriously [TS]

00:11:48   and I notice it just like what the nature of addiction is like these kind of sort of psychological addiction that you [TS]

00:11:55   have to things like email and I'm not talking like a physical addiction like like a drug. [TS]

00:12:00   And if you're doing an experiment on a human and you want to encourage them to continue in a behavior the best [TS]

00:12:09   and most effective way to do that is with something called random reinforcement. [TS]

00:12:13   You know if you want some someone or some lab animal you know to press a button. [TS]

00:12:18   The best way to make sure they press that button as often as possible is to not give them a consistent reward you know [TS]

00:12:25   don't give them a food pellet each time but give them a random reward. Sometimes they get nothing. [TS]

00:12:32   Sometimes they get a whole bunch of food pellets. [TS]

00:12:34   You know sometimes they get very few food pellets but there's a random distribution in the reward. [TS]

00:12:39   And basically for all mammals that is maximally addictive [TS]

00:12:45   and this is why things like slot machines can be very addictive for people right because they're they are random [TS]

00:12:50   reinforcement. [TS]

00:12:52   You know if you put if you put like a quarter in a slot machine every time you got back twenty cents nobody would play [TS]

00:12:57   them. Right because we like to be very obvious what's what's happening. But if you if you vary the reward. [TS]

00:13:05   That like mammalian brains are just designed to really hook into that kind of behavior [TS]

00:13:12   and so that's why that's basically what I like Twitter and even you know Reddit [TS]

00:13:17   and email can be really addictive in that way because this random reinforcement right. [TS]

00:13:21   Sometimes you go to your email and it's something really important that you need to know [TS]

00:13:25   or something really interesting on Reddit and lots of times it's just kind of nothing [TS]

00:13:30   but your brain is always like hoping for a big payoff. [TS]

00:13:34   And that's why like we mentioned last time so I was like I don't remember opening Twitter [TS]

00:13:38   but Twitter is open like clearly I did it [TS]

00:13:40   and that's exactly what that is like that's that is a sign that your your brain is engaged in this. [TS]

00:13:45   This random reward response and is really looking for that so that's why I got super serious and I will leave it now. [TS]

00:13:52   I'll try not to talk about that anymore. [TS]

00:13:54   I make you feel really good here with all this talk about like you know the male brain behavior isn't it. [TS]

00:14:00   Addictions and like I realize I'm kind of part of this conversation. [TS]

00:14:05   Well I am part of this conversation too I this is why I am always sad that I'm not a robot I'm not that robot in that [TS]

00:14:10   image before because I'm keenly aware of like the sad sad limitations of my own mammal monkey brain. [TS]

00:14:19   Though I think this clever rational person right [TS]

00:14:22   but I have a monkey brain in my skull just like every other human does and that monkey brain is easily distracted [TS]

00:14:28   and it doesn't want to pay attention like it engages in all this horrible self destructive behavior. [TS]

00:14:33   So that's what this is like being productive is learning to deal with the monkey in your head who just wants to sit in [TS]

00:14:41   the sunshine and eat bananas you know or go run around and do other kinds of stuff so that's not enough. [TS]

00:14:46   Enough with the seriousness. Just mention a quick link this is going back a couple shows ago but on. [TS]

00:14:55   When my favorite sections of Reddit is a section called change my view which is not exactly a formal debate [TS]

00:15:03   but they have more rules than most sections on Reddit do and people put forward an argument [TS]

00:15:08   and then people try to change their view on whatever the topic is. [TS]

00:15:12   And there was an interesting discussion a little while ago that related to our episode about advertising an ad blocking. [TS]

00:15:19   I'll put it in the show notes [TS]

00:15:20   but the change in my view the debate topic was you know if using an ad block is stealing content stealing [TS]

00:15:29   and I like them then so is going to the bathroom during a commercial break. [TS]

00:15:35   Change my view so that the person is arguing that that ad blocking on the Internet is the equivalent of simply not [TS]

00:15:41   watching ads on T.V. [TS]

00:15:44   and It's as with many of the discussions on that sub Reddit it's a very interesting discussion back [TS]

00:15:49   and forth between a whole bunch of people so I found it interesting to read through [TS]

00:15:53   and I will put that in the show notes and something related to our episode episode. [TS]

00:16:00   Four or five I can't keep track of them now this is seven right around seven. [TS]

00:16:05   Oh this is our last prime number of the experiment and it is our last prime number of the experiment. [TS]

00:16:11   Good ol you thinking that thinking it was C. [TS]

00:16:15   Was this debate cross posted to the newly created freebooting some credit to the other day. [TS]

00:16:23   Yes I saw someone I saw someone made that I took a little screen shot because I thought now you are the one who's [TS]

00:16:30   pushing this freebooting word again. Again Internet. [TS]

00:16:34   I'm totally fine with copyright infringement though I will I will admit if I don't copyright infringement the term I [TS]

00:16:39   hope not to read it. Yes the term the term although I will acknowledge it is very awkward in certain circumstances. [TS]

00:16:45   But I noticed a notice on the description of the freebooting sub Reddit it's this The description is that this is a [TS]

00:16:53   suburb that is about those who don't want to pay or are about those who don't pay for content [TS]

00:17:02   and I think if I'm understanding your use of the term freebooting that that this is not to be confused with piracy that [TS]

00:17:12   freebooting is to be applied to the the people who are making money off of content creators materials. [TS]

00:17:22   It's not talking about the people who may be viewing that content elsewhere or just tormenting it or or [TS]

00:17:29   or something else that is correct. [TS]

00:17:32   I think rebooting I think you grossly overestimate the amount of so I've put into the term free [TS]

00:17:37   but I think you disappoint me greatly. [TS]

00:17:40   But I'll go with whatever you said I think it's a code [TS]

00:17:44   and I think infringement like my position is clear on this as is yours. [TS]

00:17:49   OK but if someone someone made a freebooting sub read it I think. [TS]

00:17:54   I haven't I haven't gone over to look at how much discussion is over there. Put it in this manner. [TS]

00:18:00   This word catches on in anyway. Like I'll be so proud. [TS]

00:18:05   Original podcast was brought about to become like a star document it well. [TS]

00:18:09   Well that will that will be in the Oxford English Dictionary when they [TS]

00:18:13   when they talk about first usage of a term it oh yeah right because that's what they need to have like earliest known [TS]

00:18:19   use of this word in the big Brady cast. I like that. Hello Internet. [TS]

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00:19:20   when I was setting it up I did have a bunch of questions for how to do this or what setting is best for that [TS]

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00:20:15   Squarespace everything you need to create an exceptional website Pi Day it is Pi Day today that a little sorting it is [TS]

00:20:24   the fourteenth of March [TS]

00:20:27   or much foretelling so we get this three one for right so we are using the American month because there is no sort of [TS]

00:20:35   third of the fourteenth month I think Gavan Brits and Europeans are quite happy to go with this one. [TS]

00:20:41   Yeah it seems like it's become one of these Internet holidays I've been seeing everybody on the Twitter talking about [TS]

00:20:48   it today. Yeah so obviously making a having a You Tube channel about numbers I have a tremendous interest in power. [TS]

00:20:56   I think I've made about fifteen videos about really. [TS]

00:20:59   Yeah that's a whole playlist of them that and I like it sounds like you need a channel dedicated to PI fifteen. [TS]

00:21:06   Those maybe maybe will stick with the one for the butt. [TS]

00:21:11   So I put a couple of videos up today that says that this year's product [TS]

00:21:14   but I don't want to talk about them I want to talk about via its video the pod for those who don't know how you should. [TS]

00:21:23   Yes she's a she's certainly a favorite of both both of us. [TS]

00:21:26   Yes and a good friend and her video for Pi Day today like like all her videos was excellent. [TS]

00:21:33   I mean essentially in a nutshell I mean I hope people will watch it if they haven't already sane [TS]

00:21:37   and I'm sure papa in the course [TS]

00:21:41   but in a nutshell she was saying that pi is no big deal it's a very it's a very ordinary It's an ordinary number like [TS]

00:21:48   every single other number on the number line and I guess some of the points she made were really good [TS]

00:21:55   and educational about you know there are an infinite number of numbers with a repeat. In digits and things like that. [TS]

00:22:01   But the tone of the video was pies no big deal. What's the big deal with Pi Day. [TS]

00:22:05   Pi is a nothing number she sort of you know was in attacking [TS]

00:22:13   or chipping away a lot of the things people love about pi and fair enough and ice and I said I enjoyed it very much [TS]

00:22:21   but I do think that pi is allowed to be special and exceptional and whether [TS]

00:22:28   or not we celebrate PI days that's just a silly thing isn't it. [TS]

00:22:31   But I think it is OK to celebrate pi and to love pi and I love pie. [TS]

00:22:41   Now I want to I've been thinking about why that is [TS]

00:22:44   and so some of this maybe comes back to what you were talking about with kind of this random reinforcement that I think [TS]

00:22:50   maybe the ordinariness and the complete and utter opera treatise of Pi is why we love it that a number that seems so. [TS]

00:23:04   Just weirdly out of nowhere just like a distant strange number that has nothing special about it to look at it could be [TS]

00:23:14   become such a celebrity and could tweak them so imbued with meaning to us as humans is what we like about it. [TS]

00:23:24   Like almost it's almost like a product of its own sort of celebrity. [TS]

00:23:29   It's a bit like it's like the one out of the I won the lottery I won the lottery like because of because we chose to [TS]

00:23:37   put some significance into the ratio of a circle's the time it was because I can see [TS]

00:23:43   and I can see why we did that because the circle is a it is a pretty special shape but it is just another shape. [TS]

00:23:49   But because that particular ratio we decided to celebrate. [TS]

00:23:52   So then we had to go and find the poor out number on the number line happen to represent that ratio [TS]

00:23:57   and this one number was just plucked from its. [TS]

00:24:00   Your team we put on a pedestal [TS]

00:24:01   and said Good on you number you know you have some significance to us because you somehow relate to the will I think [TS]

00:24:09   that is like I think that appeals to us as humans like the way we our appeal to the the lucky person who lands the half [TS]

00:24:16   court shot at the basketball game or the person who has the one hundred million dollar winning lottery ticket. [TS]

00:24:22   I mean there's nothing special about that person. They just were in the right place at the right time. [TS]

00:24:28   They were plucked from obscurity amongst all the other humans [TS]

00:24:31   and I think they feel like it was just like some kind of a I think it was to us. [TS]

00:24:37   I'm not a robot like you is not going to understand that the agent of Pi ludic really. [TS]

00:24:45   So I think I think it's a very human thing today. [TS]

00:24:48   Like I mean like like like like like how some people have a soft spot for Saturn because it's got rings [TS]

00:24:55   or you know we we look for them and that's that is different I think description of others. [TS]

00:25:05   There's all these poor numbers milling around and like we as a society have taken there's one number [TS]

00:25:10   and then raised him up to celebrity status [TS]

00:25:13   and he was the he was the lucky guy him right place at the right time for that up that whole description. [TS]

00:25:20   Very hard to relate to and so I want to know what do you think do you think. [TS]

00:25:26   Do you subscribe to you know what's the big deal with pirates. It's you know it's a number of you know are you OK. [TS]

00:25:35   Well first of all I just did to mention advise video if you haven't watched it go watch it now and then come back. [TS]

00:25:40   That link isn't in the show notes because there will be mild spoilers for the video [TS]

00:25:45   but the thing the thing that I like about the video was basically VI was going through all of the things that are [TS]

00:25:52   normally said about the uniqueness of Pi and pointing out how they are not unique. And she was. [TS]

00:26:00   Doing it with very typical VI humor. [TS]

00:26:02   I she really got me to to laugh out loud a couple times in the video you know what you're going to get you know what [TS]

00:26:08   you're going to point out that you know people talk when I was out as an infinite number of digits you know. [TS]

00:26:12   Well five has an infinite number of digits just so happens to be that all those digits are zero. [TS]

00:26:16   Right but so the infiniteness of these numbers is not special and something that I hadn't ever really thought about [TS]

00:26:22   but talking about irrational numbers that there's an infinite number of irrational numbers it's not like there's just [TS]

00:26:28   like a couple of special ones and pi [TS]

00:26:30   and you happen to be those special numbers which is something I never really thought about in that exact way which is [TS]

00:26:36   why I like five videos she was pointing out these things you know. [TS]

00:26:39   So she was just taking apart all of the unique elements of Pi and I think doing it doing it in a very good way. [TS]

00:26:47   I really liked it. Yeah and I love and I had a lot and it was thought provoking for that reason. Yeah it was that. [TS]

00:26:55   Boston think it's OK to love pine think it's special. [TS]

00:26:59   OK so now before before I tell you my opinions on this I will first say that back in high school [TS]

00:27:10   when I was doing driver's ed [TS]

00:27:13   and I was very very bored I actually spent a bunch of time memorizing the digits of pi you know because I was there. [TS]

00:27:22   A nerdy person now I know I'm not like one of these these Olympiads memorizes tens of thousands digits [TS]

00:27:29   but I had somewhere around the first two hundred digits. Well like I said massive. Well it is impressive. [TS]

00:27:35   It found the present it is not as impressive as actually sounds because I was using you know this memory techniques for [TS]

00:27:41   this kinds of things where you can transform digits into words and in the words into sentences [TS]

00:27:46   and so it's not as hard as it as it actually sounds to memorize an arbitrary sequence of digits you know this is this [TS]

00:27:52   is basically a technique that I learned for school and to memorize stuff [TS]

00:27:55   and so that I was you know just doing this as a as a as a border kind of thing I thought. [TS]

00:28:00   It was cool to them of the nerdy high school time and I never came across to how until some point [TS]

00:28:12   when I was in college I don't remember exactly when but the math professor brought it up as a two parter. [TS]

00:28:17   This is twice pi. Yeah yeah he was a more obvious Constantius. [TS]

00:28:22   Yes So basically I think that to sum it up is that pi is based on the diameter of the circle [TS]

00:28:29   and how is based on the radius of the circle [TS]

00:28:33   and the argument is usually that were you talking about in both most shapes you talk about the most fundamental part [TS]

00:28:41   and for a circle is the most fundamental part of the radius not the diameter [TS]

00:28:44   and so pies a little weird that it's using this non fundamental part of the shape too to define it. [TS]

00:28:54   So my opinion on the whole pie versus Tao debate is one of utility and [TS]

00:29:01   when I heard about how honest to God so much of trigonometry really clicked in my mind and I thought I saw. [TS]

00:29:11   But I know this is just a conversion of of a factor of two. [TS]

00:29:14   But boy did it suddenly trigonometry made a whole lot more sense in my mind with the PA I was switching from high to [TS]

00:29:23   Tao and so that's why I have I have read things from other mathematicians saying that this is a way out of my league [TS]

00:29:33   but that Tao is only really useful in this kind of high school college level math and that [TS]

00:29:38   when you get beyond this level you know maybe there are there are arguments in favor of Pi I don't really know those [TS]

00:29:44   arguments [TS]

00:29:45   but I would just say for the level of math that I was doing how I made things just instantly so much simpler [TS]

00:29:52   and you know being able to understand that the sine function you know talking about in every every kid. [TS]

00:30:00   High school was listening to me now right you have to do you know you have to memorize these things you know what is [TS]

00:30:04   the sign of pi over to what is the sign of pi over four and you need to have these things off the top of your head [TS]

00:30:10   and it just you know it seems like it's completely arbitrary [TS]

00:30:14   but if you if you use Tarot Instead it's always just a fraction of the direction around a circle so if someone asks you [TS]

00:30:21   know what's the sign of Tao over four you start to think OK well I go a fourth of the way around the circle [TS]

00:30:28   and if you imagine that on a number line it's very obviously one I hope I'm doing this right in my head. [TS]

00:30:34   And so you know a towel over to you go halfway around the circle you know what's the height of zero so I am in favor of [TS]

00:30:42   tau because it just to me made so much of trigonometry make immediate sense where the PI stuff I had always had a hard [TS]

00:30:51   time with pine radian the never quite gotten it so there are some good there are some good videos on there are some [TS]

00:30:56   good number fall videos on it. [TS]

00:30:57   You probably enjoy the film I actually want to tell because hey he's Protel [TS]

00:31:02   and talks about some of those things you were just talking about. [TS]

00:31:04   But even if you use tell it's still just you know it's still an arbitrary constant. [TS]

00:31:08   Where do you stand on this idea of us celebrating an arbitrary number and you know having the celebrity numbers. [TS]

00:31:16   Well I think celebrity numbers. I know what you mean. So I think it's a funny term. [TS]

00:31:23   I mean I would say I am I am for it you know for example I love the fact that there is a Pi Day I'm not going to get [TS]

00:31:29   all grumpy because I think how is a better number [TS]

00:31:31   and then we're having a Pi Day because this is like this whole day allows this discussion to happen [TS]

00:31:37   and you can talk about math [TS]

00:31:39   and it brings math up as a topic so I'm very much in favor of that goes away that I did not know that. [TS]

00:31:48   So yeah I'm I'm in favor of celebrity numbers like you know I can't conceive of a reason not to be [TS]

00:31:57   and if you know if people really like pie I think I. [TS]

00:32:00   Think they were part of the celebrity of Pi is that it is an interesting looking number right whereas tao looks too [TS]

00:32:05   much like an imaginary number is an I O. [TS]

00:32:09   Symbol it's a symbol it's a very cool symbol of people who can follow me on twitter know that I have been really [TS]

00:32:15   working my way through the wire. The T.V. Series for probably the fourth or fifth time now. [TS]

00:32:20   MAN Yeah man I could talk about that forever [TS]

00:32:23   and there is a character in the second season who has a tattoo on the back of his neck [TS]

00:32:29   and I would wonder if this is assuming that maybe the actors had to I was always kind of curious about X. [TS]

00:32:35   It's the detail that is striking in the second season and seemed a little bit out of place [TS]

00:32:40   but the PI symbol is just cool. [TS]

00:32:42   So I can see why it is more prominent as a feature or it looks cool on movie posters [TS]

00:32:47   and if you want to have something mathy you put high up there it's immediately recognizable whereas lots of other mass [TS]

00:32:53   and goals they're just using boring old regular letters you know and it's that's that's not as interesting. [TS]

00:32:59   So I guess I'm I'm in favor of. [TS]

00:33:01   Well I'm very sorry for humanizing them but I am I am rather sleep deprived and maybe maybe my brain is addled [TS]

00:33:09   but I think I'm a bit more like that I quite like the I I just I think the level of your description just just struck [TS]

00:33:21   me as very funny. [TS]

00:33:21   I mean it's an analogy isn't that you get you get that of course I don't know anything and I think humans [TS]

00:33:26   but I think we can I think we like I think people like you know just appeals to people like the underdog is that way [TS]

00:33:33   because that is exactly why I say it's an underdog who would have thought that sometimes a lot of obscure irrational [TS]

00:33:39   numbers just sit in a little while after three could have become the hero of numbers [TS]

00:33:44   and he did he did he said he sat there he sat there thinking Oh I'm never going to amount to anything [TS]

00:33:50   and then one day he became the symbol that even C.D.P. Gray talks about only the podcast you should write a book. [TS]

00:33:58   I think up in Britain. If you're by the children's book about maybe I should like growing videos about it instead. [TS]

00:34:04   Yeah right. What's going on with you I think I think we have. [TS]

00:34:06   Even for a celebrity member we have given PI its juice today. Yeah I think so. [TS]

00:34:13   Right so I want to I want to complain about something for a minute here and [TS]

00:34:17   when I complain about is the West Coast time zone and had a blast last week I said the East Coast is the best coast. [TS]

00:34:25   Which again a lot of feedback on that one but you are in the West Coast. [TS]

00:34:30   I am and I am in London right now [TS]

00:34:33   and I have come to say that the the West Coast has the world's most inconvenient time zone ever. [TS]

00:34:43   I cannot stand the West Coast Time Zone. I'm with you I'm with you there. [TS]

00:34:48   So I'm So I'm so glad about this I remember at the last. You too. [TS]

00:34:52   Edu conference I was getting into arguments with people over that road and thought it was some kind of lunatic [TS]

00:34:58   and of course it doesn't help you to argue with the locals about the craziness of their own time zone. [TS]

00:35:04   But it just it drives me nuts [TS]

00:35:06   and it is as you can see for the last couple days even us just trying to schedule this thing the California late waking [TS]

00:35:13   up it just it just kills scheduling meetings. So inconvenient. [TS]

00:35:18   So many like I I mean half the reason I'm delirious and making stupid arguments about pi is because I had to stay up [TS]

00:35:28   or not because I wanted to put my videos up and respond to them at a time that was good for people in Europe and [TS]

00:35:34   and on the East Coast and also the number Tom I have often had people having phone calls [TS]

00:35:40   and they're saying OK well if so everyone's finished work now so maybe we'll put some calls into them tomorrow [TS]

00:35:46   and was like in the middle of the day for people here. [TS]

00:35:49   Yes yes I have to say at the time that this really killed me the most. [TS]

00:35:54   And again I will have to be a bit vague here but when I was having those problems with the sub. [TS]

00:36:00   Launch during the summer I would say some reasonable portion of the amount of time it took to get those problems sorted [TS]

00:36:09   was due to the time difference between the East Coast and the West Coast of the United States [TS]

00:36:14   and I was on the East Coast at the time I happened to be in America and of course because I'm on the East Coast. [TS]

00:36:19   Since I'm the one who wakes up first it feels like OK you're looking at your clock [TS]

00:36:24   and just waiting for California to wake up. [TS]

00:36:28   You know so they can get the ten voice mails or emails that you've sent [TS]

00:36:33   and then you know it's like you only have this narrow window of time when [TS]

00:36:37   when even the east coast in the West Coast a kind of a line for business deals you know or business dealings [TS]

00:36:43   and then you know God help you if you're in London trying to schedule something with someone on the on the west coast [TS]

00:36:48   and so West Coast Time Zone. I do not approve. [TS]

00:36:51   I think it's making us feel like this weird out of time this went on there you know. [TS]

00:36:59   On the west coast of even just things like Twitter you know if you know it's evening time [TS]

00:37:04   and that's my I'm more likely to be on Twitter messing around [TS]

00:37:06   and I realize oh I'm not getting any replies because the rest of the world is asleep. [TS]

00:37:11   I've noticed that you know it's just it's absolutely bizarre So I think West Coast you need to do something about that [TS]

00:37:18   closeness is unsolvable. You realize it's because of the position on the earth and the sun of course. [TS]

00:37:23   Well actually if I can find for the show not what I read I read a really good article where someone had a proposal that [TS]

00:37:29   was not too crazy for how to at least change the US into two time zones so that you basically would have a time zone [TS]

00:37:38   running down the middle of the United States and so that they would only they would only be off by an hour. [TS]

00:37:47   And this was also combined with one of my favorite things which is getting rid of Daylight Savings Time. [TS]

00:37:52   And so you could do a switch during one of the daylight savings times and just hold everything steady with. [TS]

00:38:00   Two giant time zones in the United States will only be one hour off [TS]

00:38:04   and I'd like I really like that plan what can we do to get this to get this sorted. [TS]

00:38:11   I approve of this but then a whole bunch of people at the Navy was going to compromise I don't [TS]

00:38:15   and some people are going to have to work in the call you know duck like [TS]

00:38:19   and that's not going to change where the Sunnies and the country safe. [TS]

00:38:23   I understand it's not going to change where the sun is up but I knew. [TS]

00:38:28   But as I read through it it was it was reasonable with Sun sunrise and sunset times [TS]

00:38:36   and then I think on top of that if you just stop with the daylight savings nonsense of moving around the hours all the [TS]

00:38:40   time people will just adjust that people will get used to it it's like it's like I moved here to London [TS]

00:38:45   and I remember the first winter I was here. I literally just freaked out the first time the sun set. [TS]

00:38:53   All of the sudden it four o'clock after the Daylight Savings Time change. [TS]

00:38:57   I remember sitting in a classroom and looking outside and it was pitch black for a thirty minute clips of something. [TS]

00:39:03   Honestly just did not know what was going on because I have not lived this far north [TS]

00:39:09   and now I will say it has taken me a good eight years to get used to the winters in London and how early the sun sets. [TS]

00:39:16   But you get used to it eventually. [TS]

00:39:18   And so I think if America if they adapted to two time zones people would get used to it [TS]

00:39:22   and then everyone would be happier. And by everyone I mean in the ME and that is what I'm looking for there. [TS]

00:39:27   So I don't know if you can I will have to do daylight savings another day because I mean I can understand the arguments [TS]

00:39:33   that you will make [TS]

00:39:34   but I have such an a stout chick attachment to daylight savings like because it just reminds me of the excitement of [TS]

00:39:40   getting to stay up later and play cricket with my mates [TS]

00:39:43   and things that I did have a funny experience the other night was because it just changed here in the AM on the West [TS]

00:39:50   Coast and I didn't know it was happening. [TS]

00:39:51   Oh yeah that's right it was just daylight savings time in America [TS]

00:39:54   and it's going to be they're going to the changeover at the end of the month here in London. Yeah. [TS]

00:40:00   I was up and I know I'm capable of wasting vast amounts of time on Reddit and Wikipedia [TS]

00:40:05   and I was up in the middle of the not reading Wikipedia articles and I didn't know the changes was happening [TS]

00:40:11   or it happened but my computer did and I know I didn't notice the change and I sort of looked at the time [TS]

00:40:17   and then I read another Wikipedia article and I looked up at the top O. [TS]

00:40:20   My girl and within time gone you know I'm capable of wasting time I spent an hour reading about that one incident. [TS]

00:40:29   REICH this is this is Florida right and it was like two days later that I found out of the happened [TS]

00:40:33   and I was kind of relieved you know I had made some going to fight I will put in make a note on our little notes file [TS]

00:40:42   here. [TS]

00:40:42   We're always terrified of running out of things to talk about [TS]

00:40:45   but we can talk about daylight savings time at some point in the future [TS]

00:40:50   but we do it while you're there that two other things you can add to that list then. [TS]

00:40:53   Yeah Fahrenheit and Celsius and maybe just metric. [TS]

00:40:58   I know we've discussed this before amongst amongst us [TS]

00:41:00   but you know that's going to be done some you know we can talk about that some time here. [TS]

00:41:07   Yeah I would just as a final times I think I will just I was put in that while I do think you know East Coast is the [TS]

00:41:14   best coach I love these because United States London clearly has the best time zone in the whole world. [TS]

00:41:19   I love Clinton's time zone and it was good it is the most convenient time zone ever. [TS]

00:41:24   Nothing in London centric or anything coming at the London Times and I don't think I care about right. [TS]

00:41:32   If the London Times that my Greenwich is here I don't know what else anyone needs to know [TS]

00:41:37   but yeah I love it you know you have sort of had a whole morning to get stuff done [TS]

00:41:42   and then you can shoot stuff off to you know shoot emails and phone calls after people in America [TS]

00:41:46   and then they have a whole working day you know to to to deal with whatever you sent them [TS]

00:41:51   and you know I just love the London Times and it's just the best it is the absolute best. [TS]

00:41:56   OK so I know I enjoy the same. [TS]

00:42:00   Times and even though I don't live in London and I enjoy Oh so sorry for the borrowing your times and in London. [TS]

00:42:09   So one other thing I was going to bring up was the Malaysia Airlines plane crash which has been in the news. [TS]

00:42:18   Is this something you follow. [TS]

00:42:21   Yes So this is this is something that again talking we can talk about in a future topic I.E. [TS]

00:42:28   I make a very conscious effort to not follow the news [TS]

00:42:31   and so I know kind of literally nothing about this except that there was last time I even saw some headline it was it [TS]

00:42:42   was a lost plane. [TS]

00:42:43   So I actually as we speak now it still is the last line they have and I say a plane crash [TS]

00:42:47   but they haven't found the blind so it is presumed presumed yet. So you would have to tell me about this them. [TS]

00:42:54   Well I mean for the for that very reason that it hasn't been found and no one knows what happened. [TS]

00:43:01   Certainly while we record this I was going to talk about that specifically [TS]

00:43:06   but I thought I would talk about plane crashes in general just because you know his podcast is about talking about our [TS]

00:43:11   interests and plane crashes. Actually our an interest of mine and. [TS]

00:43:17   I guess we don't cuss that people think seem to make you look crazy from time to time [TS]

00:43:21   and we know we're going to this time it's my turn having you know having done PA [TS]

00:43:25   and now talk about my interest in plane crashes. [TS]

00:43:28   I'd love to start by saying very quickly how serious I think the plane crashes [TS]

00:43:33   and this Malaysia Airlines missing plane is like a serious issue [TS]

00:43:38   and was there you know two hundred odd people on that plane. [TS]

00:43:41   Movement with families and friends and and I would never and will not sort of the little [TS]

00:43:47   or diminish what they're going through [TS]

00:43:48   and I hope I hope you know I never have to go through something as catastrophic as that [TS]

00:43:55   but I do have a very great interest in plane crashes and I always have. [TS]

00:44:00   It's kind of you know we all have these sort of topics that we read voraciously [TS]

00:44:04   and run from a plane crashes is certainly certainly one of them. I sort of I read N.T.S.B. [TS]

00:44:10   Plane crash reports is it out of the house is out of a morbid fear that you read but I don't think it's a fear. [TS]

00:44:18   I fly a lot and you know I guess I think about my plane crashing as much as the next person [TS]

00:44:24   but it's not like a fear that cripples me or makes me reluctant to fly it really is just an interest but [TS]

00:44:33   and it's a hobby I would want to call a hobby but it is just it is it is a topic of great interest to me [TS]

00:44:41   and I've been trying to figure out why I would find plane crash is an interesting topic. [TS]

00:44:46   I have kind of been doing a bit of soul searching as I spend hours upon hours of reading [TS]

00:44:50   and reading about it as one might be a reading of all this material and so I think what is your conclusion. [TS]

00:45:00   I think for me plane crashes are sort of a. [TS]

00:45:06   A confluence or a perfect storm of topics and issues that really appeal to my brain. [TS]

00:45:13   Some of those technology this is because there's always a great deal of technology involved in a plane crash whether [TS]

00:45:20   it's for better or worse human drama. [TS]

00:45:25   So because because obviously the incident itself is dramatic [TS]

00:45:29   and there are a number of humans trying to do with it usually little say there's a Unfortunately a great number of [TS]

00:45:34   people are usually affected just sitting in the back and they all in turn have their own stories and human drama. [TS]

00:45:43   And while it's really terrible I think you know as a human I take a great interest in the stories of other humans [TS]

00:45:48   and what happens to them. [TS]

00:45:50   For better or worse there's real extremes like we have you know extremes of speed and altitude and. [TS]

00:46:00   Power and forces involved. [TS]

00:46:02   Which sort of appeal to my engineering mechanical brain this great sometimes is great folly [TS]

00:46:09   and I think that's something that always appeals to me. [TS]

00:46:11   You know great you know mishaps [TS]

00:46:14   or you know hubris gone wrong sometimes I think I think slot is still something that fascinates fascinates us you know [TS]

00:46:24   humans still look up a plane going overhead although we've had them for many years they still amaze us [TS]

00:46:30   and that that can go wrong in such a spectacular way is how it's hard to ignore what's hard to ignore for me I think [TS]

00:46:39   there's lots of things about plane crashes that really appealed to my to my brain [TS]

00:46:44   and I wish I wish they wouldn't happen and I I think they're terrible. [TS]

00:46:48   But they do interest me a lot and I just remind you know with what's happened. [TS]

00:46:53   Just recently with this missing airliner it's it's reminding me again that interest me [TS]

00:46:57   and I just thought it was a sort of something I put out there because you know you've put a bit of yourself out there [TS]

00:47:02   from time to time so I'm happy just to let people know this is a strange strange interest of mine. [TS]

00:47:07   I mean I don't I'm not the Lone Ranger obviously there's a great there's a whole industry in plane crash television [TS]

00:47:12   shows you know National Geographic channel going in air crash investigation as it's called in the U.K. [TS]

00:47:19   Is actually one of my favorite programs. [TS]

00:47:22   I sort of I've seen them all now that I know that this is this interest of yours I'm not surprised that a show called [TS]

00:47:29   plane crash investigator is your favorite show and you've seen them all [TS]

00:47:33   and you probably have them all recorded visit there's a guy there's a guy who knew right. [TS]

00:47:37   And like when I watch a semi to I don't watch it much anymore because I think I've seen them all [TS]

00:47:42   but I used to watch them all the time and my Mrs used to get sick of me watching all the time [TS]

00:47:50   but she said that sometimes [TS]

00:47:51   when we get on a plane together she feels like she can hear that narrator's voice like in her head I'm going you know [TS]

00:47:57   they got on the flight I said not in the morning on A C. [TS]

00:48:00   I mean we come day and night but little did they know [TS]

00:48:03   or so anyway I had not felt that's helpful for your your plane travel about [TS]

00:48:08   but that anxiety on the days that I have you can see before we blame travel is terrible enough as it is always good to [TS]

00:48:14   throw that in and a narrator of doom in the back if you can but it's not it's not an anxiety for me. [TS]

00:48:21   But OK but maybe I've created an anxiety for her. Unfortunately the job you know there are many I said no. [TS]

00:48:29   Anyway you have you have no interest in plane crashes. [TS]

00:48:37   I mean I guess I'm interested in avoiding them to be my primary interest in plane crashes. [TS]

00:48:45   I can't say that I have ever. Read anything about them. [TS]

00:48:49   In particular I mean I think maybe like many other people when the plane for a brief moment drops in altitude [TS]

00:48:56   and you get that feeling in your stomach I definitely think well I guess I'm going to die now right for a split second [TS]

00:49:02   but I'm happy to see the beginning of the end of my interest in plane crashes is just hoping that they don't happen to [TS]

00:49:08   me and also Dear Internet before you write in about this. I'm fully aware that plane travel is incredibly safe. [TS]

00:49:17   My mom is a flight attendant. I have flown lots in my life so I'm the logical part of my brain is not afraid of flying. [TS]

00:49:25   But if if you lose altitude in a plane for a split second I do think well I guess that's the end of my existence. [TS]

00:49:32   OK I'll give you two nuggets today two nuggets from some things one thing that I just learned recently [TS]

00:49:37   and one that's an old one but the two of my favorite stories about plane crashes [TS]

00:49:41   and I might give you some insight into the kind of trivia that makes an appeal to me. [TS]

00:49:45   One was quite a famous incident was a Swiss Air flight [TS]

00:49:50   and the plane caught fire above the cockpit while they're in the air. [TS]

00:49:54   There's nothing worse than a fire on a plane and unfortunately it resulted in the plane crashing into the. [TS]

00:50:00   Say off Nova Scotia I think anyone died as you know is a terrible terrible thing terrible. [TS]

00:50:06   One thing I just found out race and it was very interesting is that on the plane was a very famous Picasso painting. [TS]

00:50:14   And there in the youth recovered a tiny tiny shred shred of it afterwards [TS]

00:50:19   but you never think about the cargo on a plane [TS]

00:50:21   and another thing that was on that plane they recovered a lot of the wreckage from the bottom of the say one of the [TS]

00:50:25   things they didn't recover was a whole bunch of I think diamonds [TS]

00:50:29   and James it was like an unusually large stash of diamonds on the plane and went down with it as well [TS]

00:50:35   and they didn't find it and you talk about there's a you know there's a million stories [TS]

00:50:39   and I love stories I guess you know that's that's my nature. [TS]

00:50:43   And writing crash has a million stories in one event and that appeals to me. All ending can do well not always. [TS]

00:50:51   And he's my second story it was another plane crash I can't remember the date as Unfortunately I used to know quite [TS]

00:50:56   well but it crashed. [TS]

00:50:58   People did die but not everyone died and one of the people who didn't die was the co-pilot [TS]

00:51:04   and just as the plane was about to crash [TS]

00:51:06   and it looked like he was going to die the last thing he did knowing that his voice was being recorded on the voice [TS]

00:51:12   recorder which tells his wife that he loved her he said. [TS]

00:51:17   Laura coming on I am I mean Laura Laura I love you he said to the voice recorder the last thing that was said [TS]

00:51:23   and then bang the plane hit the ground. He ended up surviving. How many brownie points do you think he got. [TS]

00:51:31   I imagine quite a lot. [TS]

00:51:32   Yeah that's good like my you know I have to say you know my last thoughts are viewed as like proof of the proof that [TS]

00:51:41   this is a good story for the person who survives into you know just thinking as as you tell me about your interest in [TS]

00:51:51   plane crashes. So at this point we have had I don't know the exact stats but we have had several hundred thousand. [TS]

00:52:00   Isn't downloads of these podcast episodes which is which is quite a lot [TS]

00:52:05   and I was thinking there is that given the numbers of people who are listening right now. [TS]

00:52:10   People on the internet who hear my voice at this very moment there is a non-zero chance that there is someone who is [TS]

00:52:17   listening to this in the waiting area of an airplane in the waiting area of an airport or on an airplane [TS]

00:52:25   or they're on an airplane that's true or they're about to get on an airplane. [TS]

00:52:29   So you've given them a little gift of extra anxiety that Brady has from you to the listeners in airports right now. [TS]

00:52:38   I hope I'm not freaking you out if you're hearing me and you actually are in there in an airport. Tim. [TS]

00:52:45   Can I also just add that there's also a non-zero chance that people listening to this have lost loved ones to a plane [TS]

00:52:53   crash and in fact I have I know someone who had died in an aviation accident [TS]

00:52:58   and I just want to say one final time that while I have an interest in the topic like like I guess I like people you [TS]

00:53:06   know I guess or people who take an interest in Bulls in the military. [TS]

00:53:09   I also I think plane crashes are very serious [TS]

00:53:11   and you know I don't I don't want people to think I'm taking some some gleeful interest in the misfortune I think it is [TS]

00:53:18   just a technical and human interest thing for me and if anyone has had that happen to them. [TS]

00:53:25   Please know that I can relate to it because I've had a similar thing happen so yeah I think I think that I think people [TS]

00:53:31   understand that [TS]

00:53:31   and that goes for whenever we talk about any any topic that actually touches on the Unfortunately near infinite realm [TS]

00:53:39   of potential human misery. [TS]

00:53:40   You know it's like there's always gallows humor [TS]

00:53:42   and that is a way that that humans sometimes deal with this kind of thing in day to day I will have a final note for [TS]

00:53:48   you and for the listeners if there are people who share Brady's obsession with airplane crashes. [TS]

00:53:55   I have been listening to the new podcast that's on my road and I'm just going to. I recommend it now. [TS]

00:54:02   It's a podcast called pragmatic that's run by two guys called John and Ben and one of them is him. [TS]

00:54:09   He's an engineer of some sort in Australia [TS]

00:54:12   and they do episodes where they talk about various engineering related things for the most part. [TS]

00:54:20   But they recently did an episode that I listen to out a link in the show now it's called cause in effect where they [TS]

00:54:27   were talking about analysis of failure and so what like what do engineers [TS]

00:54:35   and safety experts actually do after failure events in any kind of thing. [TS]

00:54:41   Industrial power plants they mentioned airplanes in particular for a reasonable section of the show [TS]

00:54:48   and I have I have found the show interesting to see here what you know what the the insights from a real professional [TS]

00:54:56   in the field talking about engineering topics and so this one about failure analysis was very interesting [TS]

00:55:02   and I have a big section about airlines so I will put that in the show notes for listeners to potentially check out [TS]

00:55:07   and for Brady to go potentially So you sold me on it definitely put it and put it in the notes there. [TS]

00:55:16   We think going on now maybe we should have a topic. Now I don't I don't know. [TS]

00:55:19   Sooner or sooner or later it's going to be nothing [TS]

00:55:21   but feedback right as as as a Assuming that this goes on for a while as a function of time. [TS]

00:55:27   The percent of feedback grows. [TS]

00:55:30   Right because eventually everything turns towards feedback but not today yet [TS]

00:55:35   but we're getting close there I guess now which is definitely let me tell you a story. [TS]

00:55:40   Yes I changed schools partway through high school [TS]

00:55:44   and I moved to a new school where French was taught as a language everyone had to move [TS]

00:55:52   and all my fellow students had been doing it for two years and I had never ever encountered a single word of French. [TS]

00:56:00   I knew nothing. [TS]

00:56:01   And on my first day in class I was called upon to read from the book first you know to sort of gauge what I knew [TS]

00:56:08   and I think the first thing I had to say. I had to read was. [TS]

00:56:13   I can't remember if it was a Jew I'm a pill I think I think it might have been just sway and I think I said Je suis [TS]

00:56:20   or something like that and I was laughed at terribly by all the other students [TS]

00:56:24   and I was told that that's how far behind I was. That's how little I knew. [TS]

00:56:29   So I so my and I was behind and I never caught up [TS]

00:56:33   and I was I was quite a good student you know as a quite decent marks and I found school quite easy. [TS]

00:56:38   But languages in particular French I never I never got there it was it was a real Achilles heel [TS]

00:56:46   and it remained so to this day I am very bad at picking up any aspects of a foreign language [TS]

00:56:53   when I need to be very interested to hear your thoughts on language. [TS]

00:56:58   The reason that this is a topic that I thought is worth talking about is in one of my videos [TS]

00:57:05   and I'm not actually even sure which one it was I think it was one of the Q. [TS]

00:57:08   and A once I made an offhanded reference to getting rid of foreign language classes in schools. [TS]

00:57:17   It wasn't it wasn't the focus of the video it was just something that happened to be mentioned in the video [TS]

00:57:23   and I think there is there is nothing that I have ever said. [TS]

00:57:30   Like if you take the ratio of feedback divided by the amount of time I spent talking about something nothing beats this [TS]

00:57:38   comment about ditching the foreign language requirements in schools. [TS]

00:57:43   I I still get e-mails and angry tweets about this all the time for people who are coming across as I think the Q. [TS]

00:57:52   and A video they come across that thing [TS]

00:57:54   and just bam right out goes an angry e-mail with random caps in some of the sentences perhaps. [TS]

00:58:01   Telling me just everything about how our how wrong I possibly am and how terrible of a person I am [TS]

00:58:08   and how much of the just culture crushing angle file I am [TS]

00:58:14   and so I thought I've always been meaning to do a video about this [TS]

00:58:18   but I know this is this is one of those topics I'll never I'll never make this into a proper reply video like I was one [TS]

00:58:24   too. So maybe this is just the time to talk about a little bit so that that is the background. Well I'm not surprised. [TS]

00:58:31   Tell me tell me your position so that the way it came up is yeah I definitely now know it was [TS]

00:58:38   when the question answer videos because the way it came up is someone was asking since I was a teacher. [TS]

00:58:46   What would I want to add to the school curriculum that wasn't already there. Yeah and my answer for a lot of reasons. [TS]

00:58:54   People see me talk about this a lot is computer programming. [TS]

00:58:59   If I have to pick something to me this is just the new brain [TS]

00:59:02   or right that there should be much much more computer programming in high schools than there currently is which is [TS]

00:59:09   which is basically none. For all intensive purposes especially here in the U.K. [TS]

00:59:14   I know they've added a tiny bit but it's still so little really. But now as having been a teacher. [TS]

00:59:23   I've been on the other side of this where there's always a lot of pressures on schools to include more things you know [TS]

00:59:32   there's always initiatives you know or government changes [TS]

00:59:36   or things of that that want to be added to the school schedule. [TS]

00:59:40   But as a teacher you know something has to be taken out [TS]

00:59:44   and so that is why I thought the interesting question is OK it's too easy for me to just say well kids should teach [TS]

00:59:50   more computer programming languages. Yeah. [TS]

00:59:52   The tricky thing is well what would you take out and for me that the answer is I look across the school curriculum. [TS]

01:00:00   And foreign languages are just as big juicy slow moving target just such like. [TS]

01:00:09   Like a criminal waste of students time has required classes that I would I would just ditch it without without any [TS]

01:00:18   hesitation before I ask you to expand on that. [TS]

01:00:21   Yeah it's funny that you say that because I mean I spend a lot of time talking with people who advocates of coding in [TS]

01:00:27   computer programming. [TS]

01:00:28   Yeah [TS]

01:00:29   and one of the things they point out that is quite helpful to develop your skills as a programmer is a good understanding [TS]

01:00:35   of languages including foreign languages that teaches you about syntax and you know grammar and things like. Yeah yeah. [TS]

01:00:44   First of all first of all. If you're the position of taking on this right. [TS]

01:00:50   I don't I'm not completely against foreign languages so in my own schooling this is back in New York back in the day [TS]

01:00:59   when I was in middle school which I know is I see what grades I can ever remember what grades I corresponds to here in [TS]

01:01:04   the U.K. [TS]

01:01:05   But anyway in middle school we did what was called a language survey class where one year we did I think it was five [TS]

01:01:14   or six different languages. [TS]

01:01:15   Each language for a couple of months and the purpose of that was to introduce you to other languages [TS]

01:01:22   and then you get to select which language you are going to be changed to for the next five years. [TS]

01:01:31   But like here kids what I will do is this exploration is fun thing [TS]

01:01:35   and then you know off to the salt mines you go to learn how to contribute for herbs [TS]

01:01:42   and I remember I remember that survey class quite well because as a kid it was definitely like you know MIND BLOWN kind [TS]

01:01:51   of experience you know what do you mean. Verbs and adjectives don't have to go in this order. I don't even understand. [TS]

01:02:00   And I can honestly say that you know I never understood grammar until I was introduced to foreign languages because it [TS]

01:02:06   was just you know it's like the old like the fish in the sea kind of thing where the fish can hardly know what the [TS]

01:02:11   water is because they're just surrounded by it and [TS]

01:02:14   and so I genuinely think a little bit of introduction to foreign languages is hugely helpful to be able to oh I get it [TS]

01:02:24   this is what an adverb is or you know this is why infinitives are sort of strange in English [TS]

01:02:29   but they make more sense in Spanish. [TS]

01:02:32   Yeah I think that that's really good but I don't think you need you know depending on where you are in school four [TS]

01:02:39   or five years of a foreign language to get the benefit of that. [TS]

01:02:44   I hardly think a one year survey course [TS]

01:02:48   or two year survey course is like way more than adequate to get a lot of the benefits that people are often talking [TS]

01:02:55   about with you know realising and understanding your own syntax [TS]

01:02:59   and probably for the same kind of thing with computer programming right. [TS]

01:03:03   Understanding the notion of how to express thoughts in a way that is not your native way [TS]

01:03:09   and I think you're shaming here that the reason to learn another language is to give you a greater appreciation of your [TS]

01:03:15   own language or computer programming. [TS]

01:03:17   Surely the point of a teaching paper another language is so they can learn the other languages [TS]

01:03:22   but obviously obviously that's just a total failure. [TS]

01:03:26   Let me just think I was a teacher [TS]

01:03:29   and at one school in particular language languages were so much the kids were required required Brady to learn Latin [TS]

01:03:41   and two other languages so they had to do three languages [TS]

01:03:47   and usually what ended up happening is almost this is a girls' school almost all the girls were doing Latin German [TS]

01:03:53   and French. Now why did you ask me how many of those kids could see. [TS]

01:04:00   BAEK Latin German or French or any kind of competent level [TS]

01:04:04   and the answer was none of them right none of them could do even the most basic kind of conversations. [TS]

01:04:10   Even at the end of their of their experience right so they had to learn physics from you to know how many of them do [TS]

01:04:16   things to do physics. Oh Alright well we'll talk about teaching someday. [TS]

01:04:20   But but you know give you to ask me to go you know what you know when I'm ever going to use physics [TS]

01:04:25   and my answer was always never You're never going to use this. [TS]

01:04:28   But there is a benefit to learning it for a long time right now. [TS]

01:04:32   Right so this is this that we have to prioritize things and I completely ignore all ij that the kids that I spent. [TS]

01:04:41   I guess it depends on how the curriculum was biased [TS]

01:04:43   but says that the same enough time teaching kids physics as they as they spent learning French or Latin. [TS]

01:04:50   I completely agree that that the maybe the comprehension at the end of that is comparable. [TS]

01:04:56   Right that you ask any of my students two years later how much physics they remember [TS]

01:05:01   and it's going to be it's going to be pretty dismal. Yeah. So it can't just be an argument about utility. [TS]

01:05:13   And this gets very quickly into again another another topic of conversation. [TS]

01:05:18   This starts to really mess up my mind because [TS]

01:05:21   when you start thinking about this the same kind of thing is applicable across all subjects right. [TS]

01:05:25   Students learn and retain very little from school. [TS]

01:05:30   So if you're a teacher you know that you should be you know in your dark moments at three in the morning you know [TS]

01:05:36   when this is the you when your thoughts and the [TS]

01:05:37   and the bleakness of your existence right you start thinking What is school even for like what [TS]

01:05:43   or what is this thing that we're all doing. Why are we all here. They're not remember anything. [TS]

01:05:50   You know you can get into existential questions about what is the purpose of school. Very very quickly and I can say. [TS]

01:06:01   There is some value in school exposing kids to a variety of different things [TS]

01:06:07   and some of them will be interested in some things and some of them will be interested in others. [TS]

01:06:11   Yeah right so one of the benefits of a science class. I will agree with you I think particularly in the U.K. [TS]

01:06:20   There might be physics for too long is very different although I'm not saying we do physics [TS]

01:06:27   and there's nothing to agree with him and I never. I'm just put it out there. [TS]

01:06:30   Yeah I guess I'm trying to lay this out right is like yeah like OK so there I was there. [TS]

01:06:38   But if you're teaching sciences or math or economics in school or I'm hesitant to include this [TS]

01:06:47   but I'll include like a literature by things a little different. [TS]

01:06:52   I think that there are a lot the benefits that can come out of that right. [TS]

01:06:57   You don't necessarily need a lot of people to go on to become scientists because those scientists have a [TS]

01:07:04   disproportionate impact on society as a whole. So there is benefit to exposing kids to science. [TS]

01:07:13   Now I look at I look at the language side of this and I think. [TS]

01:07:18   What is the potential benefit of forcing basically all one of the of the child population of a country to learning a [TS]

01:07:28   foreign language for years and years and we can we talk about systems last time I look at that [TS]

01:07:34   and I think Man your return on investment on this is just terrible. [TS]

01:07:40   It's a terrible return on investment because the kids are not going to they're not going to learn the language. [TS]

01:07:46   And for kids who even who like the language it's not like getting a mathematician [TS]

01:07:53   or an engineer like even like the broad impact of that particular student is not necessarily very high. [TS]

01:08:00   So for people who like languages are very much in favor of languages existing as well as electives. [TS]

01:08:06   If you want to take a language class I am not here saying no you can't take that class. I just think it should not be. [TS]

01:08:13   It should not be required in the slightest and in particular and I think this is what got some people mad. [TS]

01:08:20   As I mentioned in the video. [TS]

01:08:23   I honestly think that the teaching languages is going to be very rapidly just a totally useless skill because natural [TS]

01:08:36   language processing and computer translation of languages is getting very good very fast [TS]

01:08:43   and something like If I was if I was in charge of a school [TS]

01:08:49   and I was trying to pick subjects that would maximize potential future productivity for the students in my school [TS]

01:08:58   languages would be at the absolute bottom of the list because I'd be doing the calculation of like OK all these kids [TS]

01:09:02   are coming in. It was the British system. You know they're eleven years old when they start. [TS]

01:09:07   They're going to leave when they're sixteen or eighteen. [TS]

01:09:10   In that five year period of time starting from today the amount of progress that's made in translation technology is [TS]

01:09:17   going to be I think bigger than people estimate. Yeah. Wolfram Alpha now but we don't stop teaching math. [TS]

01:09:26   Yes that's true [TS]

01:09:27   but I think this is one the reasons why I always I actually quite liked teaching teaching physics because I was always [TS]

01:09:35   able to just tell the kids like look just use your calculators. [TS]

01:09:38   You know I don't want you to do this long division by hand. [TS]

01:09:41   Right that's that's a good use of your monkey brain right to be sitting there and writing down a hundred numbers [TS]

01:09:47   and trying to figure out the long division by hand we need to know what's happening and they think [TS]

01:09:51   and so not at the same with languages. Well OK All right. [TS]

01:09:54   Sure I can have everything translated but I'm not really you know how we start. Into a road a foundation here. [TS]

01:10:02   I don't well I don't understand a foundation of what because languages are largely a communications protocol like like [TS]

01:10:09   when the language is how much you're trying to do was say again you're a robot. [TS]

01:10:14   An average person is going to run into a linguistical problem way more frequently in their life then they're going to [TS]

01:10:20   run into a physics problem you know you don't go on holiday [TS]

01:10:24   and someone won't rent you a room at a hotel until you explain the Higgs bosun to them like this is not going to happen [TS]

01:10:31   you know but maybe you're stranded somewhere and you don't speak Portuguese right. [TS]

01:10:35   Yeah that situation is going to be way more frequent but [TS]

01:10:39   but you can already communicate with that person without speaking their language at all and I was actually [TS]

01:10:45   when I moved to London this is I mean this is years ago now. [TS]

01:10:49   Actually I shared a flat with a few people and one of them was this French girl and she basically spoke no English. [TS]

01:10:59   But she was printing a room and you still have to communicate with someone about splitting the rent [TS]

01:11:03   or the bills of the chores and all this kind of stuff [TS]

01:11:06   and we did it I mean this is got to be now eight years ago entirely through google translate you know she didn't speak [TS]

01:11:13   a word of English I didn't speak a word of French. [TS]

01:11:15   But we were able to get the basics across you know enough that you could actually like coexist with a person who [TS]

01:11:20   doesn't speak the language just sitting at a computer together and writing things into the fields. [TS]

01:11:24   Yeah that is exactly what we did we just took turns you know she would type in the French spot I would type in English [TS]

01:11:30   spot on google translate it so did you ever wonder if you would like saying can you please you know pay for half [TS]

01:11:36   electric bell and chains like that around and you just propositioned Well you know what [TS]

01:11:41   when one of the things you did real or one of things I realized very quickly at least with the technology the time [TS]

01:11:46   and I assume it's similar ish was that you learn to make the sentence is nice and smooth right nice and clear. [TS]

01:11:54   You know not a lot of you know something something common tangent comma back to the main thing. [TS]

01:12:01   Because you know she would just look at obviously the translation just went haywire [TS]

01:12:04   and she didn't understand a lot of trying to say. But so I look at that as well and it has R.-E. Language teachers. [TS]

01:12:13   But I [TS]

01:12:13   but I view that whole field as potentially replaceable by technology in a shorter time period than people are imagining [TS]

01:12:24   and so the very like even the idea of like forcing kids to learn for five years how to speak another language. [TS]

01:12:35   I just I think that's just a huge it's a huge waste. [TS]

01:12:39   You know there's WAY better things that you could do with student time than that [TS]

01:12:44   and I'm not here saying that oh you should fill all that time with with physically. [TS]

01:12:47   I have huge problems with the way science is taught and a huge problem with the education system in general. [TS]

01:12:52   So this is not meant to be a championing for the rest of it and I think it's all pretty terrible [TS]

01:12:58   but I think that the language part of it is just the most futile that there can possibly be. OK Well let me respond. [TS]

01:13:11   Yes I'm sorry. Go. [TS]

01:13:13   So it is hard for me to mount a case against what you're saying for several reasons one being that you know better [TS]

01:13:22   languages and I came out of my own if I'm I haven't eaten it for a year [TS]

01:13:26   but I came out of you know learning French not being able to speak French [TS]

01:13:31   and the case you make for reducing the time suddenly it becomes a case of you know they might sort of tweaking dials [TS]

01:13:38   and I don't know how long is too long and I haven't experienced five years of one language. [TS]

01:13:43   You certainly make it sound excessive and make a strong case. [TS]

01:13:47   But [TS]

01:13:49   when I think back to school you know I've never been out of my country before probably like a lot of students in countries [TS]

01:13:57   like Australia in the United States. There was no. [TS]

01:14:00   There was nothing in my school experience that gave me a better idea and a better feeling for the scale [TS]

01:14:09   and the differences of the world I live in than those lessons. [TS]

01:14:14   Even when I was just learning to say I'm a PO Brady too to Pelka Mon or whatever [TS]

01:14:20   but even even if it was just doing that it kind of broadened me in a funny way you know I've never been outside astray [TS]

01:14:26   earlier and it made me realize that there was this big O. [TS]

01:14:30   Out I was living in and I know this is a bit wishy washy and it's a pity [TS]

01:14:34   but even now you know now that I travel to all these countries that time learning French somehow still used to as with [TS]

01:14:44   sticks then it comes back to me quite a lot and I think it instilled in me not like a sense of adventure [TS]

01:14:52   and a need to travel [TS]

01:14:53   but a sense that there was a bigger world I was living in than this little city I was living in in Australia [TS]

01:14:58   and there's very little in scope you know learning the history of World War One [TS]

01:15:04   or learning that you know Albert Einstein was German. [TS]

01:15:09   These things don't do that they don't give you that sense of that you live in something big [TS]

01:15:14   and mysterious the way it's actually sitting there [TS]

01:15:16   and having to learn to speak the funny language these people speak does and I think I think. [TS]

01:15:23   Why don't we think about that he should have mentioned it. [TS]

01:15:26   Well OK a few things about that first of all you got this appreciation in a much shorter time than you had a time that [TS]

01:15:34   most students actually spend learning lessons. [TS]

01:15:36   Fair enough [TS]

01:15:37   and that's why I think that the survey course that I was mentioning before seems to me a reasonable amount of time. [TS]

01:15:42   One year maybe two. [TS]

01:15:44   And I often see this about you know this appreciation for foreign cultures [TS]

01:15:51   and I think you know having seen a lot of I was you haven't taught languages but. [TS]

01:16:00   My my my [TS]

01:16:04   and up with this my estimation of it is that there are certain kids who are going to to kind of naturally develop an [TS]

01:16:14   appreciation for the other and for the different [TS]

01:16:18   and something at their in their life is going to trigger that at some point [TS]

01:16:24   and you know maybe it happens to be the language classes but it wasn't the language classes it would be something else. [TS]

01:16:30   You know make them making them realize like oh this is a big wide world out there [TS]

01:16:34   and lots of students are just totally uninterested. [TS]

01:16:39   And this is this is going to sound just almost unbelievable but I remember [TS]

01:16:44   when I was younger doing the first the first couple may be miserable years of the Spanish language. [TS]

01:16:52   I remember in my brain feeling like this was some kind of bizarro arbitrary exercise of just translating all of these [TS]

01:17:01   English words into this other language for just no reason that I could I could possibly appreciate. [TS]

01:17:09   But that's how a whole bunch of other people feel about mathematics and science. [TS]

01:17:14   Like I think I think that's what you know I realize I think language it languages can trigger your imagination [TS]

01:17:21   and can trigger your. [TS]

01:17:23   You'll wonder of the world the same way that physics and maths can trigger your wonder of the universe [TS]

01:17:30   and it's not going to trigger it for everyone. [TS]

01:17:32   Just like I see a whole bunch of people who love science and make some love the universe [TS]

01:17:36   and think language is a waste of time. [TS]

01:17:38   There's another group who love languages and the Cape completely feel that cold way about science and mathematics [TS]

01:17:46   and is just doing stuff by rote and I think that's the people that you've upset with your video you've you've thrown [TS]

01:17:53   and you've just brushed aside half the people without brushing aside the math and science. [TS]

01:18:00   So you've kind of you've you've taken us aside in a way and that's who you've upset. [TS]

01:18:05   Yeah I guess [TS]

01:18:06   but I think the part of this is this is quickly rolling into a bigger discussion about education in general. [TS]

01:18:12   But no [TS]

01:18:12   but I feel I feel the same way about the way sciences are taught that it is just a total waste for almost everybody who [TS]

01:18:21   is there. But yeah I think a video advocating throwing throwing it away the way you did about languages. [TS]

01:18:27   Yes but that is because I think that languages are if we're ranking them in like stuff that just needs to change. [TS]

01:18:35   From my perspective the language is just the worst example of what school is you know for for the vast majority of [TS]

01:18:42   students it is just endless rote that will probably be replaced by machines very shortly. [TS]

01:18:48   You know no skill acquisition at the end [TS]

01:18:51   and no real chance for a huge societal upside like computer programming even if the vast majority of students don't [TS]

01:19:00   ever do anything with computer programming. [TS]

01:19:02   It's almost like from from from the government's perspective like every kid who does computer programming is a literal [TS]

01:19:08   lottery ticket [TS]

01:19:09   and you only need a couple of them to pay off you know before you gets you know a Google before you get an apple [TS]

01:19:16   but you're never going to get that kind of benefit from language classes that's just not going to have a gray I can't [TS]

01:19:21   agree that having a generation steeped in a better understanding of other cultures [TS]

01:19:28   and other languages because sometimes the language and culture is the integrated. [TS]

01:19:31   I can agree that having a generation statin that does not have a societal impact especially in a world that's becoming [TS]

01:19:38   more and more integrated and where and people and we're spending more [TS]

01:19:42   and more time with people who speak other languages and live in other cultures. I think what you said. [TS]

01:19:51   Surely a bunch of surely a bunch of people have a great understanding of people from other than from other nations that [TS]

01:19:57   has a societal impact when you know when occasion. [TS]

01:20:00   So those on the brink of wars or business do something worth huge amounts with people from other cultures. [TS]

01:20:06   I think I think you're dismissing a lot of the stuff that goes hand in hand with learning languages [TS]

01:20:13   and the benefits of those things. OK I think that argument could be made yet as you point to the first. [TS]

01:20:19   Remind me to come back to the business thing in case I forgot [TS]

01:20:22   but the first is I agree that there is a big benefit from having students have an appreciation of other cultures. [TS]

01:20:30   I'm not I am not against that. [TS]

01:20:32   Again if I'm in charge of a school I do not think that language instruction is the best way to have students actually [TS]

01:20:42   get appreciation of other classes right. [TS]

01:20:45   I would I would start with that as the goal and say OK look let's can we have four years of extra time. [TS]

01:20:54   Yeah what can we do in four years that can genuinely increase cross cultural appreciation. [TS]

01:21:05   Instead of just teaching languages. [TS]

01:21:07   That's not what you said with a Stetson or people heard you say they heard you say that fill that time with coding. [TS]

01:21:13   Well yes yes right. [TS]

01:21:16   This is this is yeah yeah yeah no no I mean I'm sort of sympathizing with you but you know you're completely correct [TS]

01:21:24   but this is this is the argument that I usually hear is is cross cross cultural promotion is good I agree with that. [TS]

01:21:32   I think there are better ways to do it [TS]

01:21:34   and here is my completely unrealistic ideal scenario would be say OK look we have some amount of human effort [TS]

01:21:44   and money that is spent to educate kids in Latin for four years instead of instead of doing that for four years. [TS]

01:21:52   Let's concentrate this into six months and try to do some kind of student exchange program. [TS]

01:22:00   Very intensely in a six month period of time. [TS]

01:22:03   Now I understand that on a on a nationwide level that is not very practical. [TS]

01:22:08   I'm kind of imagining for you know a solution that an individual school might be able to do [TS]

01:22:14   and I think a situation where if you could just paint sickly ship some of your students off to an actual foreign [TS]

01:22:20   country for a limited period of time for six months and just say you know look here we go here's a box. [TS]

01:22:26   It's you know it's labeled shipped to roving Amy off you go and you know good luck with that. [TS]

01:22:31   There's going to be nobody there who is from your culture that would be a transformative experience that that would be [TS]

01:22:39   so much more valuable then you're not sitting in a cheap one but yeah. [TS]

01:22:43   Yes that well this is this is why I don't think it is I don't think it is is remotely practical on a nationwide level [TS]

01:22:49   to do that kind of exchange. [TS]

01:22:50   But I can and honestly I haven't thought about this too much but I can imagine a similar scenario where. [TS]

01:23:00   If you try to do something more remotely like having students interact you know through Skype [TS]

01:23:06   or something like it with students in other places. [TS]

01:23:09   I know I can see that as being more beneficial for trying to foster that kind of sense of the world than a language [TS]

01:23:19   class I just think if if your goal is cultural appreciation. [TS]

01:23:23   I think language teaching is is the bad way to go about it I think that as a defense of language teaching [TS]

01:23:28   and of cultural appreciation is what you want I think there are better ways to do that part [TS]

01:23:33   and I certainly have a lot of friends that wish they could have had all their maths and physics [TS]

01:23:37   and chemistry education condensed to a six month taster and then a foreign hour let alone day. [TS]

01:23:43   Yeah and again what we can talk about that at some time [TS]

01:23:46   but my my my dream again another impractical dream I once tried to write out a course for this [TS]

01:23:53   when I was a crazy younger teacher but my my my dream for the sciences would be to actually. [TS]

01:24:00   Have like a two stream system in the sciences and you have a course that's basically science for non scientists. [TS]

01:24:08   For people who are not intending to do this as a career [TS]

01:24:11   or are related to this as a career I think it is the same thing like like the argument that is given for teaching [TS]

01:24:17   science a lot is this got to hurt so much right. [TS]

01:24:21   We need citizens who are scientifically engaged because it's a complicated world and blah blah blah [TS]

01:24:27   and I felt the same way that look if that's your goal teaching straight up physics is a terrible way to do that. [TS]

01:24:35   If your goal is to have scientifically literate students who are not professionals in this area you could design a much [TS]

01:24:42   better course to achieve that as the end you know but but making kids do F. Equals M. [TS]

01:24:47   A calculations all day that's not producing scientifically literate people in the way that you're claiming that you [TS]

01:24:53   actually want so that part of my frustration. [TS]

01:24:57   I will just let me just say I will say in defense of that one thing here which is that again if I was in charge of a [TS]

01:25:06   school there is one language that I would require. [TS]

01:25:12   Can you if you were going to make any guesses not a computer language this is not really like a trick question [TS]

01:25:17   but I would require maybe you know six months or a year of training in a foreign language. [TS]

01:25:24   Would you be able to take a guess what I would I would pick is it the language of love. [TS]

01:25:32   I'm guessing you on a path to say Mandarin. [TS]

01:25:39   Good guess good guess but I would actually mandate a six month sign language course [TS]

01:25:48   and that's what I would pick if I was in charge of school again. [TS]

01:25:52   I'm getting rid of four years of junk and I'm trying to pick more interesting things to do. [TS]

01:25:57   Yeah and I mention this because I'm not sure. [TS]

01:26:00   We've never discussed this but my wife [TS]

01:26:03   and I for a year basically kind of taught ourselves a little bit of American Sign Language [TS]

01:26:10   and this was a byproduct of Basically I had some terrible schedules as a teacher where I was talking all day [TS]

01:26:15   and I could not talk in the evening because my throat was just just gone [TS]

01:26:21   and I was I was legitimately concerned about losing my voice over the long term this is a kind of you know professional [TS]

01:26:28   issue for some teachers I had like a sharp pain in my throat [TS]

01:26:32   and so I was by thinking I shouldn't be talking if you feel that. [TS]

01:26:37   And so we were just doing it as a kind of couple activity you notice something interesting to do and [TS]

01:26:43   and what we didn't do it would you come home with a sore throat [TS]

01:26:45   and speak so I think we got enough so we could hear first this was years ago. [TS]

01:26:51   So please do not try to speak sign language to me. [TS]

01:26:53   If you speak American Sign Language and my level was never above that of like a very very poor toddler but my wife [TS]

01:27:03   and I did learn the sign language alphabet [TS]

01:27:06   and we learned a bunch of basic signs so you could communicate some some simple stuff and I have to say. [TS]

01:27:15   Doing that was and it was an amazingly interesting experience [TS]

01:27:19   and it it I have never felt like my brain was being more rewired than when we were doing this [TS]

01:27:26   and where the example that I give which he laughed about sometimes because it was so were because we both felt the same [TS]

01:27:32   way. Was learning the finger spelling alphabet is a hand gesture for each letter of the alphabet. [TS]

01:27:39   Do this once and my wife also had a sore throat. [TS]

01:27:42   What is the best situation but so we're trying to practice by spelling words at each other [TS]

01:27:48   and guessing what the words were [TS]

01:27:51   and it was this very clear feeling that the part of your brain that is used to reading is just not connected to this. [TS]

01:28:00   Same part of your brain that is used to looking at humans [TS]

01:28:03   and so also just for nerds in the audience people who watch my videos very closely also notice I did in high school [TS]

01:28:10   teach myself a little bit of Esperanto which was a foreign language that I really did enjoy learning because I hated [TS]

01:28:15   Spanish I had no interest in it [TS]

01:28:16   but Esperanto was very cool so I had like learn how to read stuff in another language [TS]

01:28:22   but the sign language stuff was just it was mind blowing so like my wife would be doing in the Hansen sublist D O G And [TS]

01:28:32   I would be sitting there looking at her going oh dog. Oh right right. [TS]

01:28:40   And then and then every just say the same thing like you know the U S. [TS]

01:28:47   But yes it was [TS]

01:28:49   but it was amazing it was just so clear that that some part of my brain was not you know you know I have some [TS]

01:28:55   scintillating conversations. [TS]

01:28:58   If it was but it was so interesting [TS]

01:29:02   and I think one of those experiences people talk about you know learning a foreign language is a different kind of [TS]

01:29:07   learning experience and in my own personal experience the sign language thing felt like that just compressed [TS]

01:29:14   and times a thousand. And plus I want I kind of want to do a video about this I'm not sure that I ever will. [TS]

01:29:21   But sign language if you just know a couple things. It's so freaking useful. [TS]

01:29:26   I cannot tell you the number of times I wish that other people knew the sign language gesture for thank you. [TS]

01:29:34   Because if I'm sort of you know there's a number of situations where your attention is distracted by something [TS]

01:29:42   but you just want to acknowledge another person who's done something nice for you if you could just do that as a [TS]

01:29:46   gesture and people could know I think that would be great. [TS]

01:29:49   It's this is another step towards your dream of not having to actually talk to other humans. [TS]

01:29:55   So when it's genuinely I think that just a couple of things if you could know. Yes No please thank you. [TS]

01:30:02   I'm not asking for a lot you know. [TS]

01:30:04   But if every if every person in the world knew the sign language just for that I think that that is genuinely [TS]

01:30:10   beneficial because it's an additional It's an additional way to acknowledge somebody it is an awful and [TS]

01:30:17   when it is one of the most often used terms for which there is no nonverbal communication I guess. [TS]

01:30:23   Yeah yeah it's it's [TS]

01:30:25   but maybe that's the point of thank you is that you have to make an effort to give it if you could do an easy think it [TS]

01:30:30   would be much of I think you would. [TS]

01:30:32   Yeah but if someone is across the room for example and you notice that they have done something nice [TS]

01:30:37   and they're looking at you right we yell thank you across a busy rheumatism or thumbs up [TS]

01:30:41   or you can give them just a nothing no I don't want to be a charming smile. [TS]

01:30:44   Yeah I don't know I think a good point because I think I think the sign language thing is is useful [TS]

01:30:50   and that is where if I get if I'm designing if I'm in charge of school on designing my ideal curriculum from scratch [TS]

01:30:56   you know after shipping kids off to Finland. Yes six months. [TS]

01:31:01   Bring them back you know then I would do a little course in sign language [TS]

01:31:05   and say you know say that whole thing took a year. [TS]

01:31:07   I think that's both of those things combined are a way better experience than you're ever going to get both in terms of [TS]

01:31:14   cultural understanding [TS]

01:31:15   and the benefits of learning about another language than from doing you know six years of French number keeps going up [TS]

01:31:22   as I talk about a mortgage in the five years I know. [TS]

01:31:25   As usual we weren't a done justice to the argument you are trying to make but that's one follow up for us next week. [TS]

01:31:30   I'm already feeling terrible about it. [TS]

01:31:32   You know you know you know the only final thing I will mention two things is this argument that I'm making. [TS]

01:31:40   When I got into some discussions about an inch in the first place I was trying to clarify to people that if I was if I [TS]

01:31:48   was in charge of a school in a non English speaking country I would have English as a foreign language that I would not [TS]

01:31:58   be making the same argument. [TS]

01:32:00   That if I was in charge of a of a school in Italy I would want English as a foreign language classes to be a [TS]

01:32:06   requirement. This just made people even angrier. [TS]

01:32:10   I can imagine that that is like the work I thought I was being all reason here they all let me clarify my position [TS]

01:32:16   until you've clarified me into greater anger. [TS]

01:32:20   You want everyone in the world to speak your language you'd be in your times and yeah [TS]

01:32:24   and the thing was I didn't you know this is this is of course the problem of being a native English language speaker [TS]

01:32:33   and I often wish that I had just grown up being able to speak another language [TS]

01:32:40   but I know that that is that is not my lot in life [TS]

01:32:41   but if you are an English language speaker there is very little return on investment in most cases in learning another [TS]

01:32:48   foreign language to just there. [TS]

01:32:50   It's it's very hard to ever do and I know that in my adult life I have made a couple of attempts to try to do that [TS]

01:32:59   and it's been very it's been very unsuccessful. [TS]

01:33:04   Actually have a list of things I have and I have a To Do list I have a not to do list [TS]

01:33:11   and the top of my not to do list is learn another language because every once in a while I get this into my brain like [TS]

01:33:18   you know what you should really learn another language [TS]

01:33:22   and I like look at the piece of paper which says you know you should really not do this. [TS]

01:33:26   You have tried many times and failed [TS]

01:33:29   and you've written it on that little piece of paper to remind you this is on your not to do list. [TS]

01:33:35   But do you think that you know like it [TS]

01:33:38   or not learning English is beneficial if you don't have English as your native language [TS]

01:33:43   and I have to say that the reason why I was thinking this is a topic is another podcast recommendation is the [TS]

01:33:48   Freakonomics podcast and oh did you listen to that because I am a subscribe to and I'm yet to listen to the T.P.C. [TS]

01:33:54   Listening to all the other ones you've recommended to me. OK well they just did an episode that was actually about. [TS]

01:34:00   Language learning. [TS]

01:34:02   And of course me I just had this feeling that Oh I'm sure learning English is great in a way that is not necessarily [TS]

01:34:09   the reverse for native English language speakers to learn another language. [TS]

01:34:12   And that was basically the conclusion of their show as well. So I felt slightly vindicated by that. [TS]

01:34:20   I was looking that they were doing a very utilitarian measure of it [TS]

01:34:24   but they were looking at the the effect of foreign language learning on the individual's income you know how how does [TS]

01:34:35   this actually affect it [TS]

01:34:36   and the bottom line it was that if you are a native English speaker learning an additional language has a trivial [TS]

01:34:44   effect on your average salary when you look across a population. [TS]

01:34:49   It was some it was something like two hundred [TS]

01:34:51   or three hundred dollars on average a year increase in salary it was it was negligible. [TS]

01:34:57   But if money is your ONLY metric for success in life then I heartily agree. [TS]

01:35:01   Yes And then of course the reverse was the case with us. [TS]

01:35:06   Non English native speakers that go with it was a substantial number you know it was it was you know I think was a [TS]

01:35:13   couple thousand dollars a year. Was it was kind of the the immediate financial benefit from learning English. [TS]

01:35:17   So yeah just just from a financial perspective it was it was kind of backing up the if you do not speak English as an [TS]

01:35:24   IT as a new speaker you probably might want to learn this. [TS]

01:35:27   Well the interesting thing which did not occur to me [TS]

01:35:29   and Freakonomics is is interesting really counterintuitive sometime. [TS]

01:35:34   They did mention that if you're going to learn a language if you are a native English speaker [TS]

01:35:39   and you're going to learn a language [TS]

01:35:41   and your goal is to maximize income in the future you want to pick infrequently spoken language which would not have [TS]

01:35:50   occurred to me but kind of makes sense makes sense in reverse [TS]

01:35:55   or that if if you can learn a language with a spoken much less frequently that is. [TS]

01:36:00   Much more valuable because you and I thinking about. [TS]

01:36:03   Oh yeah of course businesses there probably in America not short on English and Spanish speakers. [TS]

01:36:12   You know that is probably not hard to find but if you're if you're going for a rarer language Norwegian [TS]

01:36:19   and English is probably much harder to find [TS]

01:36:22   and consequently is much more valuable so I thought that was interesting little comment from their podcast and aid [TS]

01:36:28   and the there was an economist who has a quote which I think I'll just finish off this section with the thought it was [TS]

01:36:35   so great I had to pause the podcast and write it down. [TS]

01:36:38   So this is an economist who studies languages as a profession and his comment was. [TS]

01:36:47   If people are going to get some basic career benefit out of learning languages [TS]

01:36:51   or in riches their personal life then foreign language study is great [TS]

01:36:56   but if it's a language that doesn't really help their career or they're not going to use it and they're not happy [TS]

01:37:01   when they're in the classes I don't really see the point. [TS]

01:37:04   Teaching languages seems cruel to me I thought I was but that was a good kid wrapping up there. [TS]

01:37:13   Yeah I just got an e-mail from fire. Oh did you. [TS]

01:37:20   Yeah she's saying do I want to go and hang out with her and a few friends for Pi Day. Oh all right do you think. [TS]

01:37:26   Do envious but do you think she'll be upset if she finds out that what we've been talking about. [TS]

01:37:31   We said nice things about her video I think if we did we did say nice things about her video. [TS]

01:37:35   I am really sad that I don't get to be there with you without well off [TS]

01:37:39   but we might come to blows you say because I am not going better is telling her that I think PA is still a lovely [TS]

01:37:44   and should be celebrated. But there's been another criticism of our podcast. Oh yeah yeah that ends too abruptly. [TS]

01:37:53   Oh yeah I wanted to mention this I want to mention. [TS]