The Talk Show

2: Dare I Say, Kubrick?, with Adam Lisagor


00:00:00   big upset last night right wait on me

00:00:02   what the hand big win last night right

00:00:05   what who the yanks yea big win

00:00:09   yeah did you hear about Jeter the season

00:00:12   ii he's turning 37 and he's still

00:00:16   killing it and yeah he is batting

00:00:19   average what with 341 batting average he

00:00:22   kidding me that's currently the

00:00:24   ninth-best average this season job for

00:00:29   pretty good case I mean my god i just

00:00:33   put myself to sleep i mean i like the

00:00:35   way that you you predicted the homework

00:00:38   you needed to do before appearing on the

00:00:40   show it

00:00:41   yeah as I asked JP who works with me i

00:00:44   asked the the right-hand man JP to give

00:00:48   me some baseball my period that actually

00:00:51   was pretty good

00:00:52   ok good so now we're done with that

00:00:54   we're down with that everybody can come

00:00:56   back

00:00:57   what's new with you nothing that's love

00:01:02   week

00:01:03   yeah all right well then I'm sure we can

00:01:07   find something to talk about

00:01:09   it's been really slow week but a good

00:01:12   slow week right LOL not at all stressful

00:01:14   a little stressful controversy pre very

00:01:20   quiet on on the Twitter to it must be a

00:01:24   nightmare could keep up with your

00:01:26   Twitter your Twitter conversation your

00:01:30   stream do you even bother now usually do

00:01:33   you get the toe or do you just obsessed

00:01:37   you do you do you dive right in and

00:01:38   spend six hours usually doesn't take six

00:01:41   hours but sometimes the heads

00:01:44   yeah are responsive have you been to

00:01:47   this last this last round of carefully

00:01:50   I've been as I think a lot of people

00:01:53   have observed utterly unresponsive

00:01:55   whoo-hoo well I mean but in bye-bye

00:01:59   design our depth definitely but pop

00:02:02   probably slightly by mistake I talk to

00:02:07   me

00:02:07   well I last week's show I very

00:02:12   deliberate and I just didn't want to put

00:02:14   gold multi on the spot and I felt like

00:02:17   that was a lot to ask to sort of face

00:02:23   the unpleasantness and it and address it

00:02:24   so we didn't completely ignored there is

00:02:26   a little bit of banter at the beginning

00:02:28   about being new at this and doing things

00:02:31   differently but for the most part we

00:02:34   just pretended like the the great

00:02:36   unpleasantness wasn't there and that was

00:02:37   my idea and I just didn't want to put

00:02:39   notes on the spot and you know and then

00:02:42   I thought you know what that's not right

00:02:43   though in a way I think it I think it

00:02:45   ended up playing very poorly because my

00:02:49   take on his I i'm not going to explain

00:02:51   everything but I whatever i am going to

00:02:53   explain is going to be completely honest

00:02:55   and I in a sense ignoring that elephant

00:02:59   in the room is a form of dishonesty

00:03:01   so then I thought to myself well who can

00:03:03   I put on the spot and make extremely

00:03:07   uncomfortable believe i am doing the

00:03:11   thing with my shirt collar right now

00:03:13   exactly and I don't of course I thought

00:03:15   of you and no one else i don't i don't

00:03:17   mind at all

00:03:18   let's have it out let's let's come to

00:03:20   some-some epiphanies let's cry a little

00:03:26   we can just or not you know you can just

00:03:30   you can come clean or it and if you want

00:03:32   to you can just air grievances if there

00:03:37   are no I wouldn't do that Donaire

00:03:38   grievances I picked up a new hobby

00:03:40   recently what's that drinking I just

00:03:44   can't tell you how if you already

00:03:46   ok alright in preparation because he

00:03:50   knew you were going to be as to

00:03:52   unleashing some stuff some good i said

00:03:54   you know i will tell you i will tell you

00:03:56   the truth the truth is but in that

00:03:58   regard I I we're recording Harris is a

00:04:01   wednesday the 23rd as we record 2 p.m.

00:04:04   my time East Coast 11am your your time

00:04:08   west coast and 15 minutes ago in mice

00:04:11   copious show prep wanted to get a big

00:04:16   glass of of water and

00:04:19   was thinking now about what we're going

00:04:22   to say what we're going to talk about

00:04:23   and I got halfway through making a

00:04:26   martini I actually filled the shaker

00:04:28   with ice right i should say halfway but

00:04:30   I feel the shaker with ice and before I

00:04:32   realize what I was doing a given problem

00:04:36   i don't know why but you know we can do

00:04:39   we can talk about it we shall we should

00:04:41   talk about it we should remember that I

00:04:43   don't mean to make jokes and be joking

00:04:45   and try to be funny but ok I think

00:04:47   there's some things to talk about their

00:04:49   right and I'd feel like you know you

00:04:51   can't the show can't go on by pretending

00:04:52   that it didn't happen right

00:04:54   alright so now that it's it's it's a new

00:04:57   it's a new venture it's a new show that

00:05:00   what is the idea are you going to have

00:05:02   is it going to be you on Mike with a

00:05:04   different co-host for every episode or

00:05:07   do you have you planned that far in

00:05:08   advance hit you know I haven't planned

00:05:12   that far in advance

00:05:12   obviously it's not going to be John

00:05:15   Smoltz every week I so I don't know for

00:05:20   now my my idea is I have a whole list of

00:05:22   people who i would like to have on just

00:05:24   with me I haven't asked all of them and

00:05:27   I've had some of them but it's at least

00:05:30   in a couple of weeks of chock-full of

00:05:32   brand-new people who I could sit here

00:05:37   and talk to for an hour

00:05:39   yeah absolutely and I'm going to be

00:05:40   great i have not asked him yet

00:05:42   this is the first the public but just as

00:05:43   an idea haven't asked him I hope he says

00:05:45   yes I think it could be great terrific

00:05:48   fun would be me and paul thurrott oh I

00:05:53   don't know pull the THU rotc t is often

00:06:00   mentioned on Darren parable you don't

00:06:01   know where you never heard of and daring

00:06:03   fireball this is this is TV show

00:06:07   whoops no hay fall I'm just kidding see

00:06:14   this is get this is this is fun because

00:06:16   this is going to be largely I think you

00:06:18   took teaching me about things that I

00:06:21   should know as a guest on your show

00:06:22   you'll be mentioning names and products

00:06:27   and things and over and they'll just

00:06:28   completely over my head but i'll pretend

00:06:30   i know now I I should just pretend that

00:06:31   I

00:06:32   what you're talking about now that's

00:06:33   Paul Paul would be great

00:06:35   you and Paul would have a other great

00:06:37   dynamic um you know I would like this to

00:06:40   hear on on the show I was I would love

00:06:42   to hear suggestions i was i think that

00:06:44   you and lob would be great i'll already

00:06:47   on the list go good at Michael op of of

00:06:50   Rands and repose fit came you know but

00:06:54   the common thread of the show is that

00:06:57   you are on every episode correct i guess

00:07:01   so consistent a hundred I yeah i believe

00:07:05   so very good so it's just it's group its

00:07:09   Gruber yeah and and future of bold all

00:07:13   caps widely spaced right all right so

00:07:17   it's the Great's the groomer show there

00:07:20   it's just Gruber would you call your

00:07:22   show Gruber in theory yeah I feel like a

00:07:27   lot of people just know us group like

00:07:29   dearie Gruber it's not even daring

00:07:30   fireball honest so it's so did you read

00:07:32   you see what was on gruber not bad did

00:07:37   you did you google this week

00:07:39   oh yeah I'm Gregory was talking about

00:07:41   grouping it might be that might add that

00:07:45   in theory i guide that that's not a that

00:07:49   doesn't strike me as a bad idea right

00:07:51   off the top of the head

00:07:52   I my only thing about that is i'm not

00:07:54   sure though that it would that people

00:07:56   are already saying that about what I do

00:07:57   a daring fireball but what do you mean

00:08:02   like to well that when people people

00:08:04   might say like if if you work in an

00:08:06   office doing the sort of things where

00:08:08   it's possible that multiple people you

00:08:10   work with three daring fireball like

00:08:12   maybe you make iOS apps or websites or

00:08:15   something like that that somebody when

00:08:18   they're referencing something on daring

00:08:19   fireball might just say exactly what you

00:08:21   said hey Yuri Gruber today right

00:08:24   notice we can say and if this but if a

00:08:25   show is called Gruber it would be

00:08:27   ambiguous whether it was the show or

00:08:30   daring fireball would it and as I don't

00:08:33   think i don't know i think it's a pretty

00:08:34   strong brand but was your idea you asked

00:08:37   an email you had an idea for a possible

00:08:39   show title

00:08:39   oh yeah no I i suggest well just as an

00:08:42   example but bad

00:08:43   when I suggested I think picking boogers

00:08:46   with John right and you said that even

00:08:48   that would be successful

00:08:49   yea even that because you know well what

00:08:53   is the talk show it say about that

00:08:55   I always wanted to be honest when and

00:08:57   the talkshow had a I've told you this

00:08:59   before i had a big impact on me from the

00:09:01   very beginning

00:09:01   stylistically influenced the way I

00:09:07   wanted you know you look nice today

00:09:09   sound and I just thought it was a

00:09:11   beautifully babe you know beautifully

00:09:13   devised podcast was on it unlike

00:09:15   anything but what but I I thought to

00:09:19   myself at the time why the hell is it

00:09:21   called the time I mean yeah it's

00:09:22   beautifully simple and everything like

00:09:23   that but what may be a little bit more

00:09:27   specificity or maybe a little bit more

00:09:29   of a of an anchor and you know I feel

00:09:33   like now with this isn't with this

00:09:34   opportunity what you why not do a little

00:09:38   bit of a rethink on it

00:09:40   well that's one way I could have gone i

00:09:43   might take those that i came up with the

00:09:46   name I art-directed the great Greg story

00:09:53   of airbag industries Fame now now at

00:09:57   happy cog for the original branding and

00:10:02   visual design of everything from the

00:10:06   original run right there's two runs of

00:10:08   the talk show this is effectively were

00:10:10   this is talk-show 344 as Apple would

00:10:13   call the new talk show haha that the

00:10:16   first run

00:10:17   we'll just talk show because they don't

00:10:19   put the anything right busy that's the

00:10:23   opposite with the talk show where I

00:10:24   always want that i paid extra money for

00:10:26   the okay with it but it was worth it

00:10:31   so the first one was me and dan from I

00:10:33   believe summer I could be wrong by a

00:10:36   year here summer of two thousand seven

00:10:37   through the end of 2008 no network i

00:10:43   always had the idea of of trying to make

00:10:46   it into a some sort of money making

00:10:48   thing getting some sponsors and i think

00:10:50   i actually don't even remember specific

00:10:52   i think occasionally we found a sponsor

00:10:55   or two but it was it was sort of like

00:10:56   trying

00:10:57   light fire with wet matches just never

00:10:59   took off and ultimately I think that's

00:11:03   sort of what led to the demise of the

00:11:05   show where it went from being pretty

00:11:06   consistently weekly to a couple of times

00:11:10   a month and then very very quickly after

00:11:13   you after you lose that regular

00:11:15   scheduled very quickly spotted out to

00:11:16   all of a sudden there's two months

00:11:18   between episodes and and it was done

00:11:21   oh yeah I and you know that you know

00:11:24   very well it is very very hard to to

00:11:27   keep that going

00:11:28   yeah it's like work it's like it's like

00:11:30   it's like exercises like once when she

00:11:32   stopped it just feels so much better not

00:11:33   to do it right do you find that you guys

00:11:36   have have have reinvigorated you guys

00:11:38   never you guys are like a band that

00:11:39   never broke up but there was sort of a

00:11:41   hiatus with you look nice today but you

00:11:43   guys have have come back i believe

00:11:45   starting three months ago ya think we've

00:11:48   put out three episodes now and you've

00:11:50   got a new schedule where it's going to

00:11:51   be on the second of every month

00:11:53   let's try dropping it on the deuce it's

00:11:54   just about managing expectations though

00:11:56   but it was as if that was a simpson ism

00:12:00   of course all right is that the bed is

00:12:05   that why you picked the second of the

00:12:06   market third they don't have I don't

00:12:08   think so I don't think so it's just so

00:12:10   it just means you know being on a call

00:12:13   recording like we do and then everybody

00:12:17   sipping a little bit of something and

00:12:19   then and then Merlin says we should put

00:12:21   it out on the second of every month and

00:12:22   and Scott goes yeah the deuce the deuce

00:12:25   would drop it on the deuce

00:12:26   what are you going to do in February

00:12:27   when there is no second of the month

00:12:30   well you speak are you talking crazy

00:12:33   right now doesn't that pepperoni has one

00:12:36   day

00:12:40   for a second i had it is like I had to

00:12:42   go back through my elementary school

00:12:44   education and think about whether you're

00:12:47   correct except in leap years in leap

00:12:50   years yet accepted except in would be

00:12:53   leap years that fall on the Millennium

00:12:55   in which case you start on februari

00:12:58   third right so socially we only do 11

00:13:01   per year right you worry about that when

00:13:03   you come to yeah that's like that's like

00:13:05   four years away right

00:13:06   what did you do the monthly thing is you

00:13:08   think it's gonna work out i think it

00:13:10   will

00:13:10   it's hard though it is alright well you

00:13:12   know to do anything

00:13:14   well you got to do with 10,000 times and

00:13:18   we're not even close

00:13:19   so if you you know but I everybody but i

00:13:22   find this in my own my own work my

00:13:25   professional thing if i'm doing if i get

00:13:28   to do like let's say four projects in a

00:13:31   month than by the fourth 1 i'm cooking

00:13:33   with cooking with gas as they say but if

00:13:37   then I you know and I go with a month in

00:13:39   between to the next one that I'm just

00:13:42   like I'm trying I'm having to relearn

00:13:43   everything and why don't my muscles in

00:13:45   the podcast thing or not that strong to

00:13:47   begin with I feel like Merlin Scoggins

00:13:48   pick it up and and run but mine my voice

00:13:52   gets weak very very quickly

00:13:55   yeah so it would suit the show better if

00:13:57   we could actually find a way to to

00:14:00   record on a weekly basis but my nerves

00:14:04   just can't handle it but how can i have

00:14:07   some sort of schedule though is

00:14:09   essential

00:14:09   I really do yeah i mean i don't i mean

00:14:11   maybe there's some sure there's always

00:14:13   an exception and there's somebody out

00:14:14   there with a popular and long-running

00:14:17   podcast with a very inconsistent

00:14:19   schedule but I I could never do that

00:14:22   you got a minute gotta be pretty regular

00:14:24   whether you're going to say weekly or

00:14:25   bi-weekly or monthly or something so do

00:14:28   you do you get nerves when you're

00:14:30   getting on my queen you when you hit

00:14:32   recording go do you feel like that d

00:14:34   Philip tremendous amount of pressure to

00:14:36   record and an hour to two hours of like

00:14:40   quality material

00:14:42   yes definitely and without question

00:14:45   much more so all of a sudden

00:14:49   hey well it's now it's more your thing

00:14:51   right a little bit right well writer you

00:14:57   could consider yourself the the host

00:14:58   rather than the co-host right and the

00:15:04   whole thing is my responsibility

00:15:08   there's no I can absolutely feel the

00:15:09   pressure yeah well I feel the pressure

00:15:11   every day when i write on daring

00:15:13   fireball I mean it's you know it i can't

00:15:15   quite say I mean I often try to think

00:15:17   about it this way and it freaked me out

00:15:19   but if I thought that all the people who

00:15:21   read daring fireball they were in an

00:15:23   arena and the truth is at this point it

00:15:26   would actually take some sort of arena

00:15:28   sized facility to fit them all in there

00:15:30   at once on one day and it doesn't really

00:15:32   feel like that because you know i'm

00:15:34   actually in like the same office i'm

00:15:36   using the same keyboard and actually

00:15:38   even the same monitor from when i

00:15:42   launched the thing and like was excited

00:15:46   and nervous and palms sweaty the first

00:15:48   day that I had over a hundred page views

00:15:49   like so the interface that I see while

00:15:52   posting looks exactly the same so like

00:15:55   if you're in a band and you start

00:15:57   playing in a bar to a hundred people and

00:16:00   that's kind of cool and then you grow

00:16:02   and you're successful and successful

00:16:03   when you start playing bigger and bigger

00:16:04   venues you see it and it's palpable and

00:16:07   everything he not just you know you hear

00:16:09   the audience and it's louder and the

00:16:11   acoustics are different you have a

00:16:14   successful website that you're right it

00:16:15   just looks exactly the same as the

00:16:17   audience grows so that definitely keeps

00:16:19   the nerves down a little bit but yeah

00:16:21   but I realized like I fully realized

00:16:24   that if I were to something I've never

00:16:25   done but if i were to say take a week

00:16:28   off and do like what cocky doesn't just

00:16:29   turn the keys over to somebody

00:16:31   mom I think you in fact were the first

00:16:34   person he ever did that with i wasn't i

00:16:36   was the second you were the second yeah

00:16:38   I i actually like I applied to be the

00:16:42   first one and and he skipped over me it

00:16:46   and pick somebody else and then you know

00:16:48   and I was pretty crushed about it but

00:16:50   whatever it was it was it was a long

00:16:51   tango and I forgive and then you know

00:16:55   few weeks maybe a couple months later

00:16:57   actually he he went on vacation again

00:16:59   and

00:16:59   but me and said hey how would you like

00:17:01   another chance and now I felt great i

00:17:04   took a week off of work to do it but

00:17:06   that was probably super nerve-wracking

00:17:08   for you

00:17:08   oh my god it was the most stressful

00:17:10   thing I've ever done in my life up to

00:17:12   that point for sure what to do too

00:17:15   because his audience is revered yeah i

00:17:17   mean i mean is his audiences Reverend

00:17:19   that they Revere of cocky and and so to

00:17:23   to be handed those keys

00:17:25   you know it's a big big set of keys

00:17:28   right Jan one giant novelty key right

00:17:31   and it's a compare and contrast with

00:17:33   another big like a site like boy which

00:17:36   probably adds more readers than then

00:17:38   daring fireball and combined wire

00:17:41   ah is always it always has been a

00:17:45   collaborative blog with no singular

00:17:49   voice right and all and in fact almost

00:17:52   deliberately a sort of widely varying

00:17:56   voices of the various contributors and

00:17:58   editors so if somebody i I've still be

00:18:01   nerve-wracking and nervous too right

00:18:03   before a large audience but you feel

00:18:06   like you know you're not eat i think

00:18:08   would be easier because you could just

00:18:10   be yourself and boiling readers are used

00:18:12   to New byline showing up sugar varying

00:18:14   styles whereas you step step up to the

00:18:16   mic aqui dot org and you're supposed to

00:18:18   be writing and sounding and appealing to

00:18:20   the exact same you right there's one

00:18:22   single spotlight on you and if you put

00:18:24   if you're writing for boy and then

00:18:26   you're in a kind of a bizarre

00:18:27   environment like with which is brightly

00:18:29   lit and people are shouting from all

00:18:31   direction right

00:18:32   are you nervous to appear here on the

00:18:34   show with me almost definitely no more

00:18:36   nervous because it's like high-profile

00:18:38   because this is episode two of the the

00:18:40   reboot could be you know i don't i know

00:18:44   i'm i think I'm more nervous than you

00:18:47   know I which is unusual and I you like

00:18:49   the next time you'll be back right

00:18:51   you'll be back next time

00:18:53   next I hope so it goes well I'll be back

00:18:55   we did I I mean I i I'm I'm friends with

00:19:00   dan and I na and I respect him and what

00:19:04   he's created everything and and um I'm

00:19:08   sad that you know the

00:19:10   for how things have developed but I'm

00:19:12   good friends with you and I really have

00:19:15   always enjoyed conversation with you

00:19:17   it's just something that's a part of you

00:19:20   know it's on the list of one of the best

00:19:22   things of that i have in my life so that

00:19:24   that opportunity I would not pass that

00:19:28   up for any reason

00:19:30   um which is I I i suspect why your show

00:19:33   will continue to thrive because you're

00:19:37   interesting you're good at conversation

00:19:38   already

00:19:40   I really like listening to and it i

00:19:43   really like you

00:19:44   your thoughts i think a lot of people do

00:19:46   a lot of people just read you and listen

00:19:48   to you because you're thoughtful about

00:19:50   things and so putting a really

00:19:55   thoughtful person in conversation with

00:19:56   with anybody who he feels like talking

00:20:00   to is going to be entertainment and

00:20:02   entertaining um hopefully so why mean

00:20:06   like did you did you feel any need to

00:20:08   reconfigure the format at all in the new

00:20:13   in the new venture

00:20:15   well I think obviously some of that is

00:20:20   inevitable because you know Dan's on-air

00:20:23   job was definitely to organize the

00:20:30   structure of the show I to keep things

00:20:33   moving to pick spots to jump in with

00:20:35   sponsor reads and he asked me far more

00:20:40   questions than I asked him right so

00:20:44   obviously it has to change

00:20:45   you know one of the things that I want

00:20:47   people to know when they come on the

00:20:48   show you know I know my description of

00:20:51   and I think it always has been in and

00:20:54   you know from the outset is that in some

00:20:56   sense it's still largely the the

00:20:59   equivalent of the directors commentary

00:21:00   on daring fireball it works yay let's

00:21:07   talk about all that stuff but if you

00:21:09   want you have more questions about the

00:21:11   the show moving

00:21:12   I mean your own your question was but

00:21:14   you and I feel like we should talk

00:21:16   because I feel like this is the

00:21:17   controversy the controversy is why did I

00:21:20   take the show in the name right right

00:21:22   that's what you wanted

00:21:23   you want to be nice about it and you

00:21:24   don't want to you don't want to put your

00:21:26   finger on the scab

00:21:28   no because you hang up on me now I want

00:21:30   I you know and Karen and in terms of my

00:21:34   ability as a host here's the the most

00:21:36   helpful review on iTunes of of the talk

00:21:39   show this talk show unfocused

00:21:42   uninteresting and unlistenable one star

00:21:44   by the number number number it's sort of

00:21:48   like the guy from his podcast sucks

00:21:52   humbert humbert how you like it cousin

00:21:55   from from lolita yeah I'm sure you

00:22:00   listen off this is very different from

00:22:02   the pop talk show of the past which

00:22:04   always had an Benjamin serving to keep

00:22:06   the podcast focused people didn't tune

00:22:08   in just to listen to john gruber ramble

00:22:10   about a million unrelated topics they

00:22:13   turned into listen to a podcast that had

00:22:15   at least some semblance of order the

00:22:17   talk show with Dan Benjamin was already

00:22:19   one of the less focus podcasts on five

00:22:21   by five or download prepare list of

00:22:23   topics and show notes beforehand and

00:22:25   Gruber just showed up on a bad

00:22:27   connection and mumbled his comments to

00:22:29   some of the topics while clearing his

00:22:32   throat or snorting dampen or Dan

00:22:37   Benjamin was half of the talk show since

00:22:38   its inception and the new show has an

00:22:41   entirely different dynamic the new show

00:22:44   is John Gruber unhinged John Gruber

00:22:46   talking to himself jumping from

00:22:48   unrelated topic to topic it is unfocused

00:22:51   to the hilt and embarrassing to listen

00:22:53   to so yeah I guess you're right banning

00:22:55   people i think people do think i'm doing

00:22:57   a good job

00:22:59   well you know there's that means you're

00:23:01   doing something right if you give you

00:23:03   get someone stars on there and you know

00:23:05   what who needs him who need them you

00:23:07   know why I was curious about like after

00:23:09   the first show came out last week I did

00:23:13   a little you know mention search on

00:23:14   Twitter and my favorite one that i came

00:23:16   across was from I think like a teenage

00:23:18   british kid and he just said ruber your

00:23:22   new show is bad and you should feel bad

00:23:24   i should have read that when I would

00:23:29   have taken less time it's pretty good i

00:23:33   will tell you what everybody out there i

00:23:35   encourage you to be honest I

00:23:36   I'm not afraid of honesty so be honest

00:23:38   get on itunes leave an honest review and

00:23:41   i'll read next week i'll read a few more

00:23:43   of the highest-ranked whether they

00:23:47   called most helpful

00:23:48   most helpful reviews on itunes of let's

00:23:51   imagine that it's a good segment um my

00:23:53   favorite like this line from last week's

00:23:57   episode was when you guys were talking

00:24:00   about the mat connection lady you would

00:24:03   describe as you're describing how they

00:24:05   might have arranged the picture and and

00:24:08   your voice you gave voice for the team

00:24:11   and they end your voice was just a Sally

00:24:14   mind if we take a picture but it was

00:24:17   very letter many of Letterman of you you

00:24:19   know what and adds an important thing

00:24:21   I'm so glad you mentioned that because

00:24:24   this is an absolutely i mean it just

00:24:26   shows I quite frankly just how poorly

00:24:29   i'm doing with this new show is is that

00:24:32   we made a grievous error was not mad

00:24:34   connection it was Mac warehouse

00:24:37   well same diff I you want the the

00:24:41   instant messenger at the moment I'm not

00:24:44   can can you be

00:24:45   is it easy yes sure i will send you I

00:24:49   have the picture you remember this

00:24:50   picture I I don't know and it's hard to

00:24:52   tell because you're pretty young

00:24:54   oh no I I definitely like my dad

00:24:56   subscribe to those catalogs and and I

00:24:59   definitely poured through them right

00:25:03   did you see email it to me now but I

00:25:05   want maybe if you do Mac warehouse cover

00:25:11   babe idea and I I'm knot no it didn't

00:25:15   show up

00:25:16   damn it i just want to give you this you

00:25:17   are out on flickr that's just the name

00:25:19   of the the flickr page i did I wasn't

00:25:23   calling her babe

00:25:24   alright how about Mac warehouse cover

00:25:26   lady see if that works

00:25:28   google it I'll email it to you I don't

00:25:31   remember to gotten there by now you have

00:25:32   email on this computer

00:25:34   all right they do right on

00:25:40   alright check your email and there she

00:25:47   is all my god I always pictured her name

00:25:50   is like danica or something that she's

00:25:52   very Swedish looking right center but

00:25:55   it's exactly like molten I talked about

00:25:57   there's something about her with it

00:25:58   maybe it's clipart maybe she was a model

00:26:01   brought in to pose for the picture and

00:26:03   maybe she really was answering the phone

00:26:05   and they were like you will take a

00:26:08   picture of you

00:26:09   I think that she probably worked there

00:26:11   that I don't think they have the

00:26:12   sophistication to come in because you

00:26:15   can see there's there's obviously like a

00:26:16   system

00:26:17   yeah what is what OS is that system 6 or

00:26:19   something on now but that photoshop

00:26:21   wouldn't have been able to do that now

00:26:22   that is far too sophisticated with it

00:26:25   she's and she's very attractive but has

00:26:27   thin lips like her the earth their lips

00:26:28   are too thin to be a model right and

00:26:32   she's got like those nineties eyebrows

00:26:34   peeking through the church bangs that

00:26:37   she's she's so 1989 it is unbelievable i

00:26:41   love it i would go to homecoming with

00:26:43   her I really can't believe that I like

00:26:46   Miss conflated Mac warehouse with matt

00:26:49   connection that's why I'm a connection

00:26:51   was inferior they didn't have the the

00:26:53   lady since they have a lady now you know

00:26:56   what I would love to have her on the

00:26:58   talk show that would be a big get if you

00:27:02   could find out who she is

00:27:03   yeah that would be fantastic anybody out

00:27:05   there listening can find out who she is

00:27:07   and I mean I don't know that we could do

00:27:09   a whole hour but maybe we could but we

00:27:11   could certainly do a good segment I'm

00:27:13   going to say she's like maybe 26 in this

00:27:15   picture so which would which would make

00:27:17   her you know in a little late forties by

00:27:21   now right

00:27:22   I would say so great so what what things

00:27:30   you want to talk about other than other

00:27:33   than I mean like is there anything is

00:27:34   there any apple so if you want to talk

00:27:35   about definitely maybe I should do

00:27:37   maybe I should do the first sponsor read

00:27:39   that before

00:27:41   alright

00:27:43   and you you should give me some some

00:27:46   pointers on this because I this is one

00:27:48   of those things without question that

00:27:49   damn Benjamin did better than I do the

00:27:53   sponsor Prince mandan was good at like

00:27:55   real time real to alan's well let me do

00:27:58   one and and then you can you can give me

00:28:00   some some food back okay our first

00:28:03   sponsor is bare bones software

00:28:06   developers of leading-edge power tools

00:28:09   for the mac such as bbedit the

00:28:12   professional HTML and text editor with

00:28:15   bbedit 10 you can be more productive in

00:28:19   less time whether you're slinging code

00:28:21   or HTML or grinding big server logs

00:28:25   bbedit provides a vast number of helpful

00:28:28   features for editing searching and

00:28:31   manipulating text whatever you choose to

00:28:33   work on bbedit reliably transforms that

00:28:36   text with high-performance download the

00:28:39   free demo and see for yourself at

00:28:41   bare-bones dot-com huh

00:28:44   mmm i'd say i'd say maybe you know if if

00:28:49   I was if I was your client i would say

00:28:52   just you know put a little more heart

00:28:54   into it just like a little more back you

00:28:56   know just to let it breathe a little bit

00:28:59   you're saying I should have it up a

00:29:00   little bit

00:29:01   dammit alright I'm marginally sound not

00:29:05   supposed to sound like John Gruber being

00:29:07   his droll usual self talking

00:29:10   extemporaneous Lee no I'm going to

00:29:13   longer reason I shall I should have it

00:29:15   up a little bit but we want to believe

00:29:17   that you believe what you're saying and

00:29:20   I know you do because you wouldn't you

00:29:22   wouldn't take sponsorships that you

00:29:23   didn't think we're cool right

00:29:27   ok well i think about it better work out

00:29:29   it got to do it i gotta get 10,000 of

00:29:31   practice in front of the mirror right

00:29:34   trail is right let's get the the

00:29:38   talkshow meta discussion out-of-the-way

00:29:40   long story short it was a business

00:29:44   disagreement long-standing and

00:29:49   significant

00:29:51   dan the co-host is obviously very

00:29:58   popular and extremely talented is

00:30:01   extremely good at what he does and I'm

00:30:03   super proud of the work we did together

00:30:05   and I think we had some lots of good

00:30:07   shows in some some great shows

00:30:10   dan the owner of a podcast network i

00:30:15   have long-standing disagreements with

00:30:19   came to an end

00:30:22   why did I take the talk show with me

00:30:27   because I love it and I felt like if I

00:30:33   felt like my choices were reduced to i

00:30:39   dunno show I go elsewhere do a new show

00:30:45   go elsewhere and do the talk show

00:30:49   I didn't want to do know show and I felt

00:30:52   if I went elsewhere and did a new show i

00:30:55   would be leaving my beloved talk show

00:30:58   behind at five by five and I don't think

00:31:01   Dan would have kept doing the talk show

00:31:02   with without me but that's where it

00:31:06   would have SAT dormant and I just

00:31:11   couldn't bear it right well you could

00:31:15   well first of all yet that business bad

00:31:17   business comes between and i don't mean

00:31:19   bad as in nefarious but disagreements in

00:31:24   business come between good friends all

00:31:26   the time and it sucks when it happens

00:31:28   but it's it's a legitimate legitimate

00:31:29   reason and then you there there could

00:31:37   have been measures put in place to you

00:31:40   know 2222 agree that if the talk shows

00:31:45   left behind then then it's then it then

00:31:47   it you know ceases to be so I don't

00:31:50   think they're there would have been a

00:31:51   worry of then taking it over and

00:31:53   exploiting the name now my worry wasn't

00:31:55   better be taken over and Exploited my

00:31:57   worry was

00:31:58   this to see something that i view as my

00:32:01   second most beloved child creation left

00:32:10   in what is considered a bad spot right

00:32:14   right well do so so that you you I I

00:32:22   understand it's interesting that you put

00:32:24   in if you frame it like that as a as a

00:32:27   birth as a child but i honestly think

00:32:31   that you gave birth to something other

00:32:33   than something big

00:32:35   other than just what it was called um

00:32:38   and I think you you don't you definitely

00:32:40   did you you made it you made a big

00:32:42   statement by taking the name with you

00:32:46   and and that that statement has been

00:32:48   made and and now it's it's it's yours

00:32:50   it's like you it you can do what you

00:32:53   want with it including renaming it now I

00:32:57   don't want I mean like you know you've

00:32:59   said you've said repeatedly I'll think

00:33:00   about it like that's food for thought

00:33:02   and i think i have a feeling that you're

00:33:03   gonna you're gonna you're gonna keep

00:33:04   doing exactly what you're doing which is

00:33:06   that which is absolutely also that's

00:33:07   what you should do but I but I'm

00:33:09   speaking for myself as a fan when I say

00:33:12   what you've created is going to live on

00:33:15   no matter what it's called

00:33:18   even if it's called pickin boogers with

00:33:21   John which I think it should be still

00:33:25   your baby 1 star I mac stuff that's

00:33:34   talking about the big week i think was

00:33:39   about two weeks ago a little bit less

00:33:40   than two weeks ago I wrote a thing about

00:33:42   that called ios6 low-hanging fruit

00:33:44   trying to predict what Apple might be

00:33:46   doing next in an iOS right and I here

00:33:51   being that that that the phone could

00:33:53   seem to the casual observer to be

00:33:54   feature complete very very close to it

00:33:57   well that it used to be the first few

00:33:59   years they that it was kind of easy to

00:34:02   make predictions about what they would

00:34:03   do next because there were some glaring

00:34:05   omissions and one

00:34:07   and I want to talk about this with you

00:34:08   is that one of the first times I can

00:34:10   recall on seeing something that you had

00:34:13   done online was back and I think with

00:34:15   2008 it was early definitely when you

00:34:18   did a you did a concept video on how

00:34:21   copy and paste might work on the iphone

00:34:24   right which is interesting in a few ways

00:34:26   because one that whole hate let me just

00:34:29   show you here's my UI idea and i'm going

00:34:31   to put a concept video on YouTube or

00:34:32   Vimeo or one of these things you early

00:34:36   on that that was like a new thing at the

00:34:38   time and number two

00:34:40   eventually they did ad copy and paste

00:34:44   and yours was kind of a sensation got

00:34:46   picked up everywhere everybody I'm

00:34:48   bukkake linked it i'm sure i don't can

00:34:51   hope I like to know now and we've never

00:34:54   talked about this huh

00:34:55   now you know it killed me it killed me

00:34:58   that you did what you did was he wrote a

00:35:00   piece the next day he wrote a piece on

00:35:02   daring fireball about why you didn't

00:35:04   think that apple would put copy and

00:35:07   pasting in the iOS in will in like

00:35:10   anytime soon and and 44 like front for a

00:35:17   week without knowing you for a week I

00:35:20   just hated you but I kept reading and

00:35:25   then we and eventually we got we got we

00:35:27   were at each other and got to be friends

00:35:28   when did they add when did they end up

00:35:30   adding copy and paste it wasn't until

00:35:34   the second version of the OS right so it

00:35:36   was 2008 well the phone came out 2007

00:35:40   that's when I made the video i think in

00:35:42   like december something again you know I

00:35:45   might have been another year it were

00:35:46   when with when did they release the next

00:35:49   the next phone I June June of 2008 so

00:35:53   might have been June I'm but ya mind

00:35:57   mind mind was an interesting idea with

00:36:00   two finger taps but it you know they

00:36:02   didn't they didn't end up doing that but

00:36:05   um well it's funny how you like your

00:36:07   your your video I i love the idea but I

00:36:10   feel like your idea and i'll link to it

00:36:14   in the show notes people can go and

00:36:15   watch your original concept video which

00:36:17   was also

00:36:18   very funny thank you and it's only funny

00:36:22   are in hindsight as your online persona

00:36:25   has become more established and and

00:36:28   widely known like at the time it is very

00:36:32   consistent with the atom Lisa right now

00:36:35   but at the time I didn't know Adam Lisa

00:36:36   gore and I'm not going to spoil anything

00:36:38   but the way that it ends so this is it

00:36:40   just seems so absurd and right yeah

00:36:42   certain letter yet but that's my dumb

00:36:44   voice my dummy or voice behind bob bob

00:36:48   borchers I guess right your idea that

00:36:51   was largely and I don't it's kinda hard

00:36:53   to explain but it it was just your base

00:36:55   mostly it was let's take the loop which

00:36:58   was already in ios4 placing the

00:37:00   insertion point and as you're dragging

00:37:04   that around to figure out where you want

00:37:06   to start a copy our selection to copy

00:37:08   and paste you could add a second finger

00:37:12   to the screen which would put you in a

00:37:14   different mode right at which point you

00:37:16   would just drag your finger like a

00:37:18   highlighter to make the selection and

00:37:21   and then cut correct yeah and then when

00:37:25   you wanted to paste you would place the

00:37:28   insertion point with one finger then

00:37:30   still holding that first finger on

00:37:32   screen add a second finger which would

00:37:34   bring up a little dialog box with your

00:37:37   last few clipboards and then you could

00:37:39   tap one of those to paste right so the

00:37:43   problem with it and a reason Apple went

00:37:45   with something different is that it's

00:37:47   not visual right it's something that it

00:37:50   that you would have to know before yeah

00:37:53   it's not discoverable at all right here

00:37:55   and there are things in iOS that are

00:37:57   like that but they are either always or

00:38:02   ideally always but if not always almost

00:38:05   always short cuts to things that there

00:38:08   is a visual way to do that if you can't

00:38:12   see it it might as well not be there so

00:38:15   that's why you know the actual

00:38:17   implementation of copy and paste is very

00:38:21   visual

00:38:22   it's this right there in your face

00:38:24   little pop-up thing that that makes

00:38:26   these options explicit yeah but

00:38:29   seriously it was well done

00:38:30   I'm sorry it is

00:38:31   thank you you know it's alright it all

00:38:33   worked out and speaking of highlight

00:38:35   highlight working like a highlighter

00:38:38   isn't the highlighter in ibooks just the

00:38:40   most delightful you I think that exists

00:38:43   yeah except i invoke it accidentally too

00:38:46   often i do you really yeah I I don't

00:38:48   know but it's happening less than less

00:38:50   so I feel like I'm I'm getting used to

00:38:52   it

00:38:53   I haven't figured out how to not

00:38:54   successfully on the highlight stuff i

00:38:57   guess so in that way it's very much like

00:38:59   a real skeuomorphic highlighter do you

00:39:03   do this

00:39:04   i-i've i know i've spoken to quit then

00:39:08   formerly of New York Times and now he

00:39:12   does Mixel really cool collage

00:39:15   collaborative ipad app and coins even

00:39:19   written about it but the New York Times

00:39:20   added a thing

00:39:21   a while back it's like a javascript

00:39:24   thing where as soon as you selected a

00:39:26   word on a webpage on the new york times

00:39:28   it would pop up a dictionary definition

00:39:31   of the word right there

00:39:32   mhm which is stupid right because it

00:39:39   breaks something that people know how to

00:39:40   do so you just double click on a word to

00:39:42   select it and all of a sudden it was a

00:39:45   double click not selecting orders like

00:39:46   if you double click on a word it would

00:39:48   make a definition will double-click

00:39:50   already has a meaning it just means i

00:39:51   want to select this but the reason it

00:39:53   was especially problematic for me is

00:39:54   that while I'm reading an article I

00:39:56   didn't even really know that i had this

00:39:58   habit but I I just sit there and play

00:40:00   with the mouse and like select words and

00:40:03   and make text elections while I'm

00:40:07   reading just like like an idol fidgety

00:40:09   thing sure you fondle you found a boy

00:40:11   does the same thing and said it drove

00:40:12   him nuts and and he was gonna crack some

00:40:15   skulls over it

00:40:16   oh yeah well there have been all sorts

00:40:17   of bad attempts that giving meaning to

00:40:19   words that are not links from without

00:40:23   any other extra hot keys to enable them

00:40:25   or something and all the double the

00:40:28   double underline crab advertisers are

00:40:30   doing or even I think there's this

00:40:32   company app sure I don't over there

00:40:35   what's going on with them but they're

00:40:37   trying to they're trying to enable

00:40:38   search on top of every single word in a

00:40:41   in a site or what

00:40:43   alright so like when I'm reading on the

00:40:46   iphone or ipad like in safari sometimes

00:40:48   I'll just move my thumb up and down a

00:40:50   little bit and just make the page go up

00:40:52   and down just slightly just like a

00:40:54   fidgety type thing and I feel like in

00:40:56   ibooks that's why I sort of with making

00:40:58   inadvertent highlights is that I would

00:41:00   just sort of touching my I just wanted

00:41:02   to touch the screen finally and then all

00:41:04   of a sudden I've got a highlight but

00:41:05   when you want to make a highlight i have

00:41:07   to admit it is delightful really don't

00:41:09   like his looks really good

00:41:11   right and that aana somehow they're

00:41:13   really really good at at this all at the

00:41:16   the parallax offset of it's not really

00:41:19   going underneath where you touch its

00:41:21   underneath where you think you're

00:41:22   touching right right it's very accurate

00:41:26   um I I can't believe that it took the

00:41:30   mac OS so long to make like control

00:41:36   command D over any word bring up

00:41:38   dictionary and yes and search every i

00:41:40   use that constantly it's one of my

00:41:42   favorite features

00:41:43   yeah I do too i used to always when i

00:41:45   was reading paper books always had like

00:41:47   a personal policy that if I ever

00:41:49   encountered word that I didn't know I

00:41:51   would either look it up if there is a

00:41:52   dictionary handy or write it down and

00:41:55   then look it up when i got to a

00:41:57   dictionary you and I wasn't always

00:41:59   scrupulous about it but it was always

00:42:01   thought it was a good policy that don't

00:42:02   just pretend that you know the word if

00:42:04   you encounter a new word look it up now

00:42:06   and carry a dictionary in your back

00:42:08   pocket is a good now I did not know they

00:42:10   were too big

00:42:11   yes big pants yeah so what do you have

00:42:19   any idea what do you think apples going

00:42:20   to do next long story short there that

00:42:22   the low-hanging fruit is pretty much

00:42:24   gone like everybody knew that's the

00:42:25   thing about the copy and paste from

00:42:27   2007-2008 in its kind of crazy to think

00:42:30   back that we had these phones that that

00:42:33   we loved but they couldn't copy and

00:42:34   paste text or anything

00:42:36   yeah it's kind of crazy to think about

00:42:38   going back to that like oh yeah

00:42:40   as frustrating as it would be to travel

00:42:42   back in time pre iphone it would be

00:42:43   pretty frustrating to travel back to

00:42:45   even the original iphone maybe like it

00:42:48   can even copy and paste so what do you

00:42:51   think is coming next

00:42:53   i don't i don't know i mean i get you

00:42:55   obviously you talked about every certain

00:42:58   mentioning that maps google maps are

00:43:00   gonna go out of the phone and Apple is

00:43:03   going to have its own solution and I

00:43:05   think that it's it might not just be

00:43:06   like a one-to-one replacement with just

00:43:10   a new backend of of a mapping service

00:43:13   and and new interesting delightful Apple

00:43:17   front end is going to replace this

00:43:19   google friend that's basically been

00:43:21   pretty much the same since the first

00:43:24   iteration right i mean with with little

00:43:26   accoutrement is added the new you know

00:43:30   in in navigation on the new google maps

00:43:32   it's nice to have three options of good

00:43:35   roots right but other than that it's

00:43:40   still frustrating to use it's not really

00:43:42   intuitive think doing things like that

00:43:45   are sort of user you very you I

00:43:48   sensitive just for usability like while

00:43:52   you're actually maybe in a car looking

00:43:55   at a map and you need to get a list you

00:43:57   need to get over to listview is like

00:43:59   three taps yeah um and and I think that

00:44:03   Apple could I mean I definitely solve

00:44:04   those types of problems but bo what if

00:44:07   they just whatever they're just going to

00:44:09   put a new a new spin on the whole idea

00:44:12   of mapping that there isn't super

00:44:16   obvious I mean what if it's is this this

00:44:19   could be done but I mean well first of

00:44:21   all they're probably able to integrate

00:44:22   across all their services like contacts

00:44:26   and everything a little bit better in

00:44:30   Thai in mapping and social and I don't

00:44:33   know but that doesn't that's that's not

00:44:34   really interesting maybe I mean there's

00:44:37   I know there's sort of a movement to to

00:44:39   figure out the problem of to figure out

00:44:42   the problem of I don't know whether you

00:44:45   would call it micro mapping or whatever

00:44:47   like locating things and and inside of a

00:44:51   location

00:44:52   I'm just very very much refined your

00:44:56   location they might have an interesting

00:45:00   solution to that but no it's not obvious

00:45:03   to me do you think here's my big

00:45:05   question with Apple taking

00:45:07   the map data into their own hands is do

00:45:09   you think that they are also going to do

00:45:10   a Maps website

00:45:12   yeah that is an interesting question in

00:45:15   my mind first thought my thought is no

00:45:17   example doesn't do stuff like that but

00:45:19   if they don't do a website how would you

00:45:21   email directions to somebody from your

00:45:23   phone right well you just have to hope

00:45:25   that their iOS as well um yeah I guess

00:45:32   it could operate on the Instagram model

00:45:34   where there's maybe there's just a

00:45:35   simple a very very simple web version of

00:45:38   over map but nowhere near as complex as

00:45:43   google maps all right no yeah i mean

00:45:46   they don't they don't apple doesn't

00:45:48   traditionally do stuff like that well

00:45:49   right but they don't even try really

00:45:51   yeah i mean when i get it there's like

00:45:53   there's like locate my you know find my

00:45:55   iphone and said and the the actual the

00:45:56   actual the iCloud website is pretty

00:45:59   robust never spend any time on which you

00:46:01   wouldn't need to because it it's all the

00:46:04   the front and front is that is all of

00:46:05   the apps that are on your Mac but when

00:46:09   you actually spend some time in the

00:46:10   browser in and like fish around all this

00:46:12   giant tabs

00:46:13   um it's actually quite pretty yeah now I

00:46:20   don't know I feel like they kind of have

00:46:21   to but maybe I'm you know thinking about

00:46:23   around and maybe they were willing to do

00:46:26   that inhabit so that you know if you're

00:46:27   going to send directions to somebody

00:46:29   they better have an iOS device you

00:46:31   same goes for the iCloud photo and

00:46:35   video-sharing which 1i know the wall

00:46:37   street journal reported a bit ago was a

00:46:39   going to be a major new feature that

00:46:40   you'll be you'll be able to you know I

00:46:44   don't worry i think they even explicitly

00:46:45   compared to compared to flicker or maybe

00:46:48   even facebook or something where you

00:46:50   could take your family photos from your

00:46:52   iphone share them through your iCloud

00:46:54   account and then the thing that caught

00:46:56   my eye was that it said to other I cloud

00:46:59   users because if it's not a website how

00:47:03   else would they do it let alone whether

00:47:05   they even you know whether they want to

00:47:07   draw that sort of privacy circle of

00:47:09   everybody you're sharing with has to

00:47:11   have an iCloud account I i think a big

00:47:14   part of that is the practical point that

00:47:15   if you don't have an iCloud account how

00:47:17   would you do it if they don't do it on

00:47:18   the web

00:47:18   but on the other hand they do you know

00:47:21   they've already had things like you know

00:47:23   the me.com photo albums which were on

00:47:27   the web on your me.com account

00:47:30   yeah and did you ever use any of that

00:47:31   crap i'm not really i mean going back to

00:47:35   idisk days and all the way through it

00:47:37   seems like the parent of the kind of

00:47:38   thing that parents use right but but you

00:47:42   know we don't use that stuff because

00:47:43   there's MIT they're way better solutions

00:47:45   right um so I don't want to see what i

00:47:49   mean i guess like I'm curious to see

00:47:51   what apple's next iteration of the

00:47:52   gallery would be but again they don't do

00:47:57   social well so how useful could it be

00:48:00   alright nice just for 121 sharing then

00:48:03   again it's like this it would be very

00:48:06   hobbled yeah that's it

00:48:08   it doesn't feel like they ever really

00:48:09   did a good job with it i mean i might I

00:48:11   don't jump on most social network type

00:48:14   things I mean most of them don't appeal

00:48:15   to me but when i find 1i like that i

00:48:17   just use it so for me for sharing photos

00:48:19   to people who always been flickr just

00:48:22   because that's why flickr became so

00:48:25   popular was just seemed like than the

00:48:27   nice balance between obvious and ease of

00:48:31   use and easy shareability that you

00:48:39   didn't you know make things that you

00:48:40   could share privately which required the

00:48:43   other people to have I think I flickr

00:48:45   account and then you know if you didn't

00:48:47   really care who saw the pictures you can

00:48:48   just do it and point people at the URL

00:48:50   and everybody could go see it

00:48:52   what could it be possible that Apple is

00:48:56   planning big things for the web but they

00:48:58   still want everybody to have an iCloud

00:49:00   account even if it's not a mobile-based

00:49:03   viewing experience right i don't know i

00:49:06   don't really think so it doesn't seem to

00:49:08   me like Apple has done very much at all

00:49:09   to encourage people to sign up for

00:49:11   iCloud if they don't have an iOS device

00:49:14   I mean even can you can you just go to I

00:49:17   don't even know if this is possible i'm

00:49:19   pretty pretty sure I feel like you can

00:49:20   but i guess i've never not had a nice

00:49:24   device like since I was a baby

00:49:29   I'm trying to see what happened to sign

00:49:34   in or learn more

00:49:37   says right here iCloud and this is me

00:49:39   signing in on chrome where I don't have

00:49:42   em I already signed then if you go to

00:49:44   iCloud that comment says to use iCloud

00:49:47   first set it up with your Apple ID on a

00:49:50   device with iOS 5 or mac with OS 10 lion

00:49:54   10.7 point2 so now it looks like to get

00:49:58   an account you need to be using one of

00:50:01   the matter up but i don't mean I'd hood

00:50:04   you could just use somebody's mak make a

00:50:06   guest account sign up for free iCloud

00:50:08   account and then go home to your you

00:50:10   know HP whatever things are called right

00:50:14   you know um I didn't think of another

00:50:19   set of features are you like just a

00:50:22   usability enhancements that I would love

00:50:24   to see in the next version

00:50:25   ok it's it would be like instant on

00:50:27   connectivity like I'm a huge remote user

00:50:31   right with the road app my apple TV and

00:50:35   that is the there's always eat as soon

00:50:38   as the phone goes to sleep there's

00:50:41   another three-second 324 seconds of of

00:50:44   reconnection to do before you can use

00:50:45   the damn thing again like they got to

00:50:49   solve that pretty pretty well I wonder

00:50:53   if they could wonder if a big part of

00:50:54   that could be solved with the the new

00:50:56   bluetooth i forget if the new thing is

00:50:58   bluetooth for bluetooth is for yeah

00:51:00   that's for but that the whole emphasis

00:51:03   the whole point of it is is reduced

00:51:05   power and prolonged battery life during

00:51:11   idle time i'm sort of emphasis but that

00:51:15   would require new hardware it's not

00:51:17   really a new software you know not new

00:51:18   software in and of itself

00:51:20   well although deuces maybe the new phone

00:51:22   does have the bluetooth for the other

00:51:24   new the new phone definitely has

00:51:26   bluetooth for while they're making out

00:51:27   but that but the appletv dozen so maybe

00:51:32   the next Apple TV's gonna it would have

00:51:35   that will have some of that stuff in it

00:51:36   but it's weird it's like it's so

00:51:38   difficult to imagine an apple where

00:51:40   they're just relying have

00:51:41   Leon bluetooth for even though they're

00:51:42   even though they've had bluetooth and in

00:51:45   all their devices for since since since

00:51:47   the beginning

00:51:49   it just seems like such a kind of old

00:51:52   and dying like a dinosaur of a standard

00:51:55   to have to build around

00:52:00   yeah definitely does i don't know

00:52:02   there's something about it that doesn't

00:52:03   add up

00:52:04   but on the other hand I think that the

00:52:06   fighting the most surprising thing to me

00:52:08   about the current apple TV is that it

00:52:12   still uses infrared for the remote right

00:52:14   which just seems so super antiquated

00:52:17   does but i think it's like it's almost

00:52:19   like a barrier to entry thing they just

00:52:21   want to make it as easy as possible

00:52:23   which it is right like as long as you

00:52:25   can handle you interacting with the

00:52:27   thing with four buttons then you're fine

00:52:29   and but you still even with the IR that

00:52:32   you still run into problems where you

00:52:34   know the laser you get and the more

00:52:36   slumped down on your couch you are maybe

00:52:38   this is mine maybe he's just my TV

00:52:41   posture problems picturing you watching

00:52:44   TV with your legs up at the top of the

00:52:46   couch right you're you're sort of

00:52:48   hunched over with your head on the floor

00:52:50   make cereal the coffee table starts

00:52:52   getting in a way you know that you've

00:52:56   run into these weird line-of-sight like

00:52:57   line-of-sight seems like something that

00:52:58   we shouldn't have to worry about anymore

00:53:00   right

00:53:01   definitely and you know and if you get

00:53:02   up and run to the fridge for refills you

00:53:05   should be able to pause you know even

00:53:07   though you're not line of sight to the

00:53:08   TV anymore

00:53:09   that's interesting it's interesting like

00:53:12   you whereas are easy to Italy automatic

00:53:15   pausing so into this so you will or if

00:53:17   you just have the right if you have the

00:53:18   remote your hand you should be able to

00:53:19   do it and you can do that when you use

00:53:21   the remote app because it's over Wi-Fi

00:53:23   not line-of-sight right so if you've got

00:53:26   some time in your hand like all be in

00:53:28   the vibe every once in a while I'll be

00:53:31   in the bathroom like with my iphone and

00:53:33   I know that my girlfriend is in the

00:53:35   bedroom with the apple TV on she's

00:53:36   watching a show and I'll just dumb

00:53:39   I'll take a picture of myself and then

00:53:41   airplay the TV just to say hi

00:53:44   is that is that weird

00:53:47   she doesn't find it so funny is this

00:53:50   where it is it weird though that I would

00:53:51   that flag ask you to CC

00:53:54   me on that list that I'd like to be on

00:54:00   that I'd like to be on that list

00:54:02   well it's so this guy like that is a

00:54:03   good chuckle it is a good chuckle just

00:54:06   i'll start a tumbler with all my my

00:54:08   bathroom selfpics I'm really having a

00:54:13   hard time coming up with ideas for what

00:54:15   what they might add

00:54:16   I don't know man I don't know if I'm I

00:54:17   my creativity is at refining I i don't

00:54:20   know if i'm missing something obvious

00:54:22   like one of the reasons I wrote that

00:54:24   piece on during fireball two weeks ago

00:54:26   was to get people to send me emails with

00:54:30   all the obvious things I was missing and

00:54:32   I got some good ones but nothing that

00:54:34   really jumped out at me as oh my god how

00:54:37   did I not think of that you know i don't

00:54:41   know it's just I think that there it

00:54:43   just speaks to the to the pace at which

00:54:46   they're they're catching up to the ideal

00:54:49   it again it's like remember there was a

00:54:52   time when we were all waiting for the

00:54:53   next Mac to come out because we needed

00:54:55   more speed and we need more power we

00:54:57   need more hard drive space right

00:54:59   eventually they just caught up and we

00:55:01   could we were you know we're thinking

00:55:02   geez if that what is going to be in the

00:55:05   new 1i don't even know what I need

00:55:07   anymore and I'm so then what happens

00:55:09   when I mean like if your days sort of

00:55:11   allow you the camera to the global

00:55:14   picture what did happen is that they

00:55:16   started concentrating on a new platform

00:55:18   so is that the new way that is that the

00:55:23   way to think about it I mean is there a

00:55:24   definite like is there sort of a

00:55:26   slightly different platform that's

00:55:28   coming next on which they're going to

00:55:29   start iterating slowly that makes it

00:55:32   makes more sense to me and feels more

00:55:34   right than anything else and I don't

00:55:36   think I definitely don't expect them to

00:55:38   do is to make any kind of big changes to

00:55:40   the stuff that's already there in iOS as

00:55:43   we know it on the iphone and on the ipad

00:55:45   just for the sake of saying there's

00:55:47   something new mm you know yeah no

00:55:49   totally they know that that's not the

00:55:51   game that there and that's the other

00:55:52   hardware manufacturer right and as much

00:55:54   as they get Apple get so much press when

00:55:57   they make a big announcement

00:55:59   I mean just almost unfathomable amount

00:56:01   of of worldwide media attention when

00:56:04   they ask for

00:56:05   it they are not afraid of not making

00:56:13   changes they're not afraid to keep

00:56:16   things the same even though the people

00:56:17   want to be wowed and blown away like

00:56:19   I've asked about you know the fact that

00:56:21   the iphone 4s when it's turned off looks

00:56:24   almost completely identical to the

00:56:26   iphone 4 by far the biggest money-making

00:56:30   product and in apple right now and I

00:56:36   think arguably the single most

00:56:38   profitable product in any industry in

00:56:42   the world and the brand-new model for

00:56:44   the year looks exactly like the old and

00:56:47   the answer you know is if we could think

00:56:51   of something that was way better and it

00:56:53   was different we would do it and if we

00:56:56   can't find a if we're not ready to make

00:56:58   anything that's we think is way better

00:57:00   we're not going to make something

00:57:02   different just to have something

00:57:03   different right now does does does John

00:57:07   Gruber ever sit at home and think about

00:57:11   what's what's coming 10 years in the

00:57:12   future and twenty i do and i come up

00:57:15   blank i'm terrible at absolutely

00:57:17   horrendous

00:57:18   well I mean like your if you just like

00:57:20   to pie-in-the-sky just like it should

00:57:22   think you know space exploration robots

00:57:26   are all around us what it was human

00:57:28   computing human-computer interaction

00:57:30   look like I would think that it's you

00:57:33   know it's essentially invisible and the

00:57:35   hardware as pretty much disappeared or

00:57:38   as is is omnipresent like that it's get

00:57:42   that level of pervasiveness that we

00:57:45   don't even see it anymore so i would say

00:57:48   that the the next steps in the

00:57:51   development of the world's largest tech

00:57:53   company is going to be you know

00:57:57   incrementally reaching towards that and

00:58:00   i think that the way they do that it is

00:58:01   it is an every new generation of

00:58:03   technology they start with something

00:58:05   small and not at all obvious and not at

00:58:08   all popular straight like like

00:58:12   I guess we historically speaking at the

00:58:15   tail end of the developer of the like

00:58:17   feature completeness of the mac they

00:58:19   start working on the ipad and people

00:58:21   were saying it's ridiculously expensive

00:58:23   and why would you need that and then

00:58:25   eventually that sort of developed with

00:58:26   an ecosystem into what's what working

00:58:30   we're kind of saying is a device that

00:58:33   feature that's nearing feature complete

00:58:35   and and so that it's like certain it's

00:58:39   now it's kind of time to like come up

00:58:41   with the new ipod and what the hell is

00:58:44   that I mean like I'm one of these people

00:58:45   who actually firmly believes it's the TV

00:58:47   like the job the big screen now is gonna

00:58:50   is going to be the new thing that it

00:58:52   seems like the dumbest idea in the world

00:58:55   but then slowly develops over the next

00:58:58   10 years

00:58:59   alright but there's some kind of angle

00:59:01   that we're missing

00:59:02   we dancing because I mean I will admit I

00:59:04   will fully admit that I my idea for the

00:59:07   iphone you know when it won 2006 like

00:59:10   the year before it actually came out

00:59:12   when the rumors were super rampant I

00:59:14   mean people have been talking about an

00:59:16   apple cellphone for years but then it

00:59:17   really accelerated beginning for the

00:59:19   obvious reason that they actually were

00:59:21   doing it and and while the details

00:59:23   didn't leak the fact that they were

00:59:25   doing it just inevitably made it

00:59:28   permeated the the collective

00:59:30   consciousness right

00:59:32   my idea was an iphone or an ipod that

00:59:34   made phone calls

00:59:35   yeah you know and that the you would you

00:59:39   know in the same way that you would

00:59:39   spend the click wheel up and down to

00:59:41   pick a song you would spend the click

00:59:43   wheel up and down to pick one of your

00:59:45   contacts and press the middle button and

00:59:47   it would call them and it would be good

00:59:49   all the same

00:59:50   sorry good and I thought it would be

00:59:51   great and then but in all the same

00:59:54   barriers existed to achieving that that

00:59:56   kind of exists in in this

00:59:56   kind of exists in in this

01:00:00   Nason TV world right now they still have

01:00:04   all the huge behemoth infrastructure to

01:00:07   completed to like ingratiate themselves

01:00:09   with right and so my idea for apple TV

01:00:13   is I don't know I guess exactly like my

01:00:15   TV with the actual apple TV connected to

01:00:18   it except you don't have to connect

01:00:19   anything and then it's super obvious

01:00:20   enough to make phone calls with it right

01:00:22   and I'm sure it's just as wrong as my

01:00:24   idea that the iphone would be an ipod

01:00:26   with the click wheel so I'm you know I'm

01:00:28   it's fun to be wrong though right that's

01:00:31   that's like the fun part of what we do I

01:00:32   guess

01:00:33   alright i'm not a nun at the least bit

01:00:35   embarrassed to be wrong about that

01:00:36   because I get you know might be may be

01:00:39   no fun at all if you could accurately

01:00:41   predict it

01:00:41   yeah gross right I cannot expenditure

01:00:44   did the iphone introduction day and

01:00:47   event was like one of the happiest days

01:00:48   of my life

01:00:49   me too and if i had predicted that it

01:00:51   would have been like while I was there I

01:00:52   saw that coming

01:00:53   by any chance did you see the trailer

01:00:59   for the other teaser for the master when

01:01:01   you called paul thomas anderson now I

01:01:03   did not go and watch it right this

01:01:06   second well not right this second but

01:01:08   like you said you know anything about it

01:01:11   now it's sort of this it's loosely based

01:01:14   on the on l ron hubbard huh yeah well

01:01:18   should I could I could watch it and then

01:01:20   we could have caleb take care of the oh

01:01:22   yeah go go and watch it going short

01:01:24   short

01:01:25   [Music]

01:01:29   that was terribly exciting i was really

01:01:51   good i don't know i just find I think

01:01:56   that he's the most exciting for a

01:01:58   director right now like he's he's he's

01:02:00   the younger version of the terrence

01:02:02   malick or something I our you know there

01:02:07   is a Kubrick night i agree i see it

01:02:10   ICL any edge of sort of Kubrick the

01:02:14   Mallik to PT Anderson yeah just the guys

01:02:18   that are not afraid to take things very

01:02:20   very very seriously

01:02:21   well and in a way of us an understanding

01:02:26   of the art of cinema that it can stretch

01:02:29   a moment to unbelievable length

01:02:36   well that's an interesting way of

01:02:37   putting it i like that and I'll tell you

01:02:41   what just out i'll tell you what that

01:02:42   that there's two parts of this trailer

01:02:45   there's a part on a beach visually it's

01:02:47   one conversation but what you see

01:02:49   visually is looks like some Navy guys or

01:02:52   something on the beach but then it cuts

01:02:54   to then it ends up

01:02:55   uuc then these this interview that's

01:02:58   taking place between two characters

01:03:01   what did that remind you a lot of the

01:03:05   interview in The Shining oh yeah

01:03:07   definitely other room is very so very

01:03:09   similar with the walking phoenix AZ

01:03:13   Jack 20 yeah um I think that every with

01:03:17   you have to come to with a little bit of

01:03:19   knowledge of what the the story is and I

01:03:22   think it's that will it's that it's the

01:03:25   origin story of El ron Hubbard and this

01:03:28   and his knee is his new nose neophyte

01:03:33   the right word is new like wingman

01:03:36   anybody find that he discovers to help

01:03:41   him run is

01:03:42   is you know his thing and that and I

01:03:45   know that there's like in Scientology

01:03:47   there's this tradition of the like very

01:03:50   military sick but not like navel and

01:03:56   analog in a naval analogy to to the

01:04:00   whole structure of Scientology so i

01:04:02   think that what we're seeing is that

01:04:05   where we're watching the background of

01:04:09   this may have the the wingman character

01:04:13   mhm I you know I don't know anything

01:04:16   about it is it it is it about

01:04:19   Scientology no it's not but it's about a

01:04:22   figure like l ron hubbard ah got it so

01:04:27   it's not really doesn't it got it sort

01:04:29   of Solon Citizen Kane was to first

01:04:32   yeah exactly exactly right so that's

01:04:35   three comparison and and it's Philip

01:04:36   Seymour Hoffman as their own Hubbard

01:04:38   character haha perfect yeah perfect man

01:04:43   I so I you know what is coming out one

01:04:45   movie coming out pretty soon pretty soon

01:04:48   all right so you got to come back on and

01:04:49   we'll talk about the movie

01:04:51   okay great alright gotta get that back

01:04:53   on the show will get these movie reviews

01:04:54   back in the meantime you can always

01:04:57   check out some VHS VHS cassettes of the

01:05:01   master the TV show with Lee Van Cleef as

01:05:04   an as a master ninja and Timothy band

01:05:06   Timothy Van Patten as a sidekick from

01:05:09   1984 man that'll make a Mike Lee Van

01:05:12   Cleef anymore no I don't the mustache on

01:05:14   the many kidding me he was and he was

01:05:16   missing the tip of a finger didn't know

01:05:19   that

01:05:19   oh man that's whether the great things

01:05:21   about him and you know of course Sergio

01:05:23   Leone loved his clothes upstairs a clean

01:05:25   anytime you see a close-up of leave and

01:05:27   cliffs hand going for his pistol get a

01:05:30   lock he's missing a finger tip I mean

01:05:32   that you can't fake that kind of

01:05:33   badassery you know he lost that a bar

01:05:36   fight or something but yeah somebody bit

01:05:38   off

01:05:39   yeah i've got probably him you know like

01:05:42   you know you mean like they're right

01:05:44   like on a dare like a bite my finger tip

01:05:47   off valve that I don't need it

01:05:48   he was a badass yeah speaking of badass

01:05:51   let me do my second sponsor read you can

01:05:53   go for it

01:05:54   Mars at it Mars at it is the premier mac

01:05:59   desktop blog editor it makes writing for

01:06:03   the web as comfortable as sending email

01:06:05   it supports a variety of blogging

01:06:08   platforms including wordpress tumblr

01:06:10   blogger Squarespace and movable type

01:06:13   marzena its advanced HTML editor

01:06:16   features syntax highlighting

01:06:18   spell-checking and customizable markup

01:06:21   macros for frequently used snippets in

01:06:24   HTML or mark down for less markup

01:06:29   oriented writers Mars edit features a

01:06:31   rich text wysiwyg editor or block

01:06:34   formats font styles and colors all show

01:06:37   up in line as you style with Mars edit

01:06:40   you will write better more often and

01:06:43   never lose a post to your browsers back

01:06:45   button again

01:06:47   it's marz edit from red sweater software

01:06:50   re d dash sweater dot-com perfect

01:06:54   perfect you know what joke it's going to

01:06:57   be very pleased with that read when you

01:06:59   said the word comfortable in the

01:07:00   beginning I actually relax a little bit

01:07:03   is like I was the I my favorite red

01:07:07   sweater and when you said wysiwyg I kind

01:07:09   of tighten up a little extra I aspire to

01:07:15   be a quick learner

01:07:16   ya know that was great i got a couple

01:07:19   more things I want to talk about i want

01:07:23   to mention i want to mention to work

01:07:26   that you're doing at sandwich video

01:07:31   right and and what's the new thing but

01:07:35   the new things the production company

01:07:36   started by morgan spurlock the direct to

01:07:39   the documentary director and he invited

01:07:42   small handful of directors that doing

01:07:45   them you know working in various

01:07:47   disciplines to basically join this

01:07:51   company and be represented by the

01:07:53   company to do work commercial broadcast

01:07:55   commercial work for you know bigger

01:07:57   companies one of the other directors is

01:08:00   gary has to it you know the filmmaker

01:08:03   behind a beautiful trilogy

01:08:06   helvetica America objectified and

01:08:09   signified a fighter been trying for but

01:08:14   remember not organized organized as you

01:08:16   say buildings that line right right

01:08:20   urbanized most of them are documentary

01:08:22   directors I'm like the I'm sort of like

01:08:23   the small web spot guy right

01:08:26   so in your usual humble way you have

01:08:28   described it accurately i would describe

01:08:30   it as that that Morgan Spurlock has put

01:08:33   together the Avengers of commercial

01:08:35   directors and you're in there I've

01:08:39   clearly i think clearly as the Hulk I

01:08:43   don't know which will see right nineteen

01:08:47   ninety nine percent of the time you're

01:08:49   Bruce Banner you know in nobody would

01:08:53   like you when you're angry

01:08:55   your pants are ripped yeah well that

01:09:00   part is true right soso could be could

01:09:05   be interesting

01:09:06   I'm you know there's always been the

01:09:07   threat of like doing these small ones

01:09:10   that i do but on a bigger scale of

01:09:12   course it's a whole different ballgame

01:09:13   ballgame when you're doing that because

01:09:14   there's an ad agency in place and

01:09:17   they're there they're the ones that are

01:09:19   delivering a lot of the creative input

01:09:22   and in my small in my little company and

01:09:27   sandwich video i basically act as the ad

01:09:30   agency direct to the client so there's a

01:09:34   lot of freedom in that there's a lot of

01:09:36   responsibility and I'm just kind of

01:09:37   curious about what happens in this i'm

01:09:40   mostly that's it is curiosity to see

01:09:43   whether I can whether it's something i

01:09:45   can actually do you say anything about

01:09:48   what you're working on right now you you

01:09:51   alluded at the outset of of the show

01:09:53   that you are editing yeah I'm editing

01:09:57   two things here at at pictures in a row

01:10:00   and Hollywood one of them is is the most

01:10:04   fun project I've ever gotten to work on

01:10:06   because it's like it's for a new video

01:10:09   game coming out the trailer and I've

01:10:13   never gotten to do that before and i'm

01:10:15   not a huge gig video game player but i

01:10:18   will this is a it's an interesting take

01:10:21   on an old format i can't say much more

01:10:24   than that I wanted to be about like a

01:10:26   nice surprise and it comes but some

01:10:28   heavy hitters are behind it in the games

01:10:31   and in the game's world and like it's

01:10:35   just a lot of fun because it's like it's

01:10:37   it's playing in a world that I've always

01:10:38   been partial to since I was a kid games

01:10:42   are big business now huge right i mean

01:10:44   it and i'm wrong i might be might be if

01:10:47   i'm wrong correct me and you should know

01:10:49   this but there's more money spent on

01:10:51   video games now then spent on motion

01:10:54   pictures

01:10:54   well I don't actually know I don't know

01:10:56   the number and i know that it could

01:10:59   easily be true could be that a video

01:11:00   game costs 200 million dollars to do

01:11:02   well but also that like the amount of

01:11:04   money that by us consumers spend on

01:11:07   video games is more than what they spend

01:11:09   to watch movies

01:11:10   I'm but at the very least they're in the

01:11:13   same ballpark

01:11:14   oh absolutely in the same ballpark and

01:11:15   then the model is sort of similar to

01:11:18   with the studio's cranking out the big

01:11:20   hits and they sequels and everything big

01:11:23   opening weekends and promotions 22 to

01:11:27   herald the arrival and teasers like you

01:11:30   exactly what you're doing trailers that

01:11:33   will advertise you know release dates

01:11:35   very similar

01:11:38   yeah then we'll do you do you play games

01:11:40   with the boy we play some games on the

01:11:42   wii wii is fun

01:11:45   yeah but he's he got a d/s for Christmas

01:11:48   and he loves it and it was interesting

01:11:50   to me because I wasn't sure whether you

01:11:53   know he also has like old we have so

01:11:55   many old iphone sitting around so he has

01:11:56   access to iphones and he does play

01:11:58   iphone games to but so is interesting to

01:12:02   me with the Des appeal to somebody who

01:12:04   if you already have unlimited access to

01:12:06   an iphone four games with the d/s appeal

01:12:08   to you as well and the truth is not

01:12:10   surprisingly it does because nintendo is

01:12:12   very good at what they do

01:12:13   mom and i think that the d/s games he

01:12:16   likes are far more immersive than the

01:12:19   iOS games that he likes sure I've played

01:12:22   with the 3d one

01:12:23   yeah that's what he has it three guys

01:12:25   okay that's pretty neat yeah it's

01:12:27   because and I generally don't like 3d

01:12:29   but it

01:12:30   you know that and I think part of the

01:12:34   reason that I don't like 3ds is right

01:12:36   down

01:12:37   Roger Ebert alley where I go to a movie

01:12:39   and you put these glasses on me and

01:12:41   forget the whole 3d 2d thing it's

01:12:44   everything looks dark and there's no way

01:12:46   to to make up for that movies look

01:12:49   better when the ball was right when the

01:12:51   picture is super bright and you put

01:12:53   these glasses on and everything gets

01:12:54   dark and so I've already disappointed

01:12:56   every time I see the 3d movie because of

01:12:58   that the 3ds doesn't involve any glasses

01:13:01   you just look at it and and to me that's

01:13:03   an enormous difference right I need to

01:13:05   me any 3d technology that requires

01:13:07   glasses that everybody who was involved

01:13:10   in making this stuff ought to be looking

01:13:11   for ways to get rid of it

01:13:13   sure what I was at the office and my

01:13:17   office i have a TV like a TV on the wall

01:13:22   that's actually 3d TV because it

01:13:23   actually doesn't cost much more than 24

01:13:26   a 3d enabled TV and and then the glasses

01:13:29   class 50 bucks and i happen to be like I

01:13:31   love 3d i love 3d movies

01:13:33   I'm all-in um and so I bought a few

01:13:36   blu-rays and easy and i love the

01:13:40   experience the glasses i can see how

01:13:42   they get in the way to like domination

01:13:46   but but when i when i tried all my

01:13:51   friends iphone 3d I mean what it is

01:13:56   yeah the nintendo 3ds without the

01:13:58   glasses and it just works you just have

01:14:00   to have the right angle of view and then

01:14:03   and all of a sudden it's this new pop

01:14:05   out pop out book I mean I guess that's

01:14:07   the feeling it gave me is like when

01:14:09   you're a kid and you look at a pop-up

01:14:10   book for the first time

01:14:11   yeah and I remember I've played you know

01:14:14   a couple of games I've and I'd it's one

01:14:16   of those things where I don't play as

01:14:17   many that my whole reason i got on this

01:14:18   was that I don't play as many games with

01:14:20   him on the wii as much because he's on

01:14:22   the 3ds and it's a no he's just all

01:14:24   personal experiences right but but I've

01:14:27   you know I've tinkered with it and with

01:14:30   the mario kart and but i think it's most

01:14:32   interesting for like a platform type

01:14:35   game where the game is 2d but they show

01:14:39   it in a little bit of 3d and it really

01:14:41   helps and and it's a

01:14:43   like a little joyful extra touch like in

01:14:45   a way that it's just it's not really

01:14:48   useful but it's just joyful when screens

01:14:50   on the iphone animate and slide and it's

01:14:53   very smooth like from a practical

01:14:57   perspective the 3d effects applied to a

01:15:01   2-d game doesn't really serve any

01:15:03   purpose but it just somehow makes it it

01:15:06   does make it seem more fun is a question

01:15:10   I have to go back to the iphone for a

01:15:12   second and just talking about that 3ds

01:15:14   made me think of it why what that way

01:15:18   okay so that's the the rumors of the for

01:15:20   the 4-inch sixteen by nine iphone screen

01:15:22   right what the hell happens to the

01:15:24   millions of apps they're coded for you

01:15:29   know one and a half by one or whatever 3

01:15:32   by 2 aspect ratio

01:15:34   well it's funny you should ask i just

01:15:36   wrote about it before we started

01:15:37   recording i'm good i think that for most

01:15:40   of them that it's sort of like the way

01:15:43   that you resize windows on mac that you

01:15:48   know like Safari like the you know the

01:15:51   URL bar stays at the top and the other

01:15:54   buttons stay at the bottom and then

01:15:55   there's just more room in the middle for

01:15:57   content and it's the same way that apps

01:16:00   are already most apps are already

01:16:02   flexible in that regard like if you are

01:16:05   on a phone call hit the home button

01:16:06   while you're still on the call and go to

01:16:08   mail that double-height green status bar

01:16:12   that says hey you're on a phone call

01:16:14   it's double-height it doesn't cover

01:16:17   male-male squishes the window down so

01:16:20   that it gives the status bar an extra

01:16:23   you know 40 pixels or whatever it is

01:16:26   mhm on so i think that if developers are

01:16:29   using the api's right to respond to that

01:16:31   sort of thing that when the app is

01:16:33   launched on a phone with more pixels

01:16:35   it'll just go up there and grow now the

01:16:38   big exception and i'm sure it's why you

01:16:40   thought about it is games because games

01:16:42   don't have like a flexible content area

01:16:45   in the mail

01:16:46   right so like a list of mail messages

01:16:49   well the screen shrinks are grows

01:16:52   horizontally you just show more or fewer

01:16:54   messages in the list but a game is sort

01:16:57   of hard coded to a specific aspect ratio

01:16:59   and i'm not quite sure what the answer

01:17:00   is to that

01:17:02   yeah it's a tough it's a tough one

01:17:03   because it's for designers who are just

01:17:06   precious about every pixel and see it be

01:17:08   really really frustrating how many extra

01:17:10   pixels it's 1130 6-1 970 276 pixels and

01:17:17   it's only six it's a about a half an

01:17:19   inch physical size

01:17:22   yeah that's a lot to deal with

01:17:25   so like if you let her boxer or

01:17:28   pillar-box did or whatever you want to

01:17:30   call it with it you know it wouldn't be

01:17:31   I think that one solution to it is if

01:17:34   that an app is hard-coded only to have 3

01:17:36   by 2 UI elements that it would just be

01:17:39   letterboxed and yeah you know it

01:17:42   wouldn't be profound you know wouldn't

01:17:44   be still a huge black bars but there

01:17:46   would be black bars i'm i'm excited that

01:17:50   the screen is going to finally be

01:17:51   sixteen by nine for video because i

01:17:53   always feel weird watching video and you

01:17:55   have to choose which is the lesser of

01:17:57   two evils to you describe into it

01:18:00   ideally the letterbox all right products

01:18:03   and I think that's one of the reasons

01:18:05   they're going to do it as that you know

01:18:07   and and why did they do it from the

01:18:09   outset I don't know and they're never

01:18:10   going to explain themselves but my

01:18:11   thought is perhaps it was just a

01:18:13   technical problem that you know and and

01:18:16   to me it's about at the tension or a

01:18:20   major source of tension in the design of

01:18:22   these mobile devices is that you want

01:18:24   the smallest physical hardware device

01:18:27   possible and you want a big screen and

01:18:31   thatthat's there's tension there so the

01:18:34   way some of these android phones have

01:18:35   gone as if they've just will slack in

01:18:38   the tension on how big the devices and

01:18:40   said screw it will just make a phone

01:18:42   that's actually not even that

01:18:43   comfortable to hold in one hand but

01:18:45   you'll get a big screen and I'd I expect

01:18:51   holy expect that if if it's true that

01:18:54   Apple's doing a 4-inch iphone that the

01:18:55   actual phone itself will not be any

01:18:57   bigger it will be

01:18:59   the same size if not even smaller just

01:19:01   so they can be coy about it because if

01:19:05   you just turn on your iPhone and look

01:19:06   there's plenty of room on the screen for

01:19:08   it to be at a taller display they just

01:19:10   shrink the chin and forehead areas a

01:19:12   little bit right corner in the other is

01:19:15   a range of quarter-inch down is any

01:19:18   other heart phone maker doing or retina

01:19:20   equivalent display it i think so i think

01:19:23   HTC I think some of the android guys are

01:19:26   up in the 300 and some pixel range per

01:19:29   inch and and that's you know I think

01:19:31   anything over 300 by Apple's definition

01:19:33   counters retina true but a lot of those

01:19:36   guys it's in it's it's I'm just so glad

01:19:38   I don't have to really write about him

01:19:40   and try all those phones like the

01:19:41   engadget that's because it'll some of

01:19:42   them use the pentile AMOLED and that it

01:19:45   doesn't really count as you know right

01:19:49   now because they're cheating on the

01:19:51   sub-pixels and and it just looks gross

01:19:53   when you look at those amoled displays

01:19:55   yeah but I don't know what the answer is

01:20:00   four games I don't know

01:20:01   and then what happens because the other

01:20:02   thing too is that what happens to a game

01:20:04   that is optimized for the 16 deny phone

01:20:06   when it runs on the 32 iphone a smart

01:20:10   game with gaming the i think is

01:20:11   definitely the hardest thing to answer

01:20:13   on that because then you you would run

01:20:16   the same thing as what are they going to

01:20:17   do profit on a three-to-two and you're

01:20:19   missing some stuff on the side of the

01:20:21   the game that will work

01:20:23   alright alright you're going to have to

01:20:24   code the game so that it takes it does

01:20:26   both

01:20:26   I don't know it's weird but um amazing

01:20:34   still with that with those limitations

01:20:36   how extensible the the platform is

01:20:39   definitely just put all that power in

01:20:42   the developers hands and I do think too

01:20:46   i think that the I think that the the

01:20:50   big big use cases for these devices

01:20:53   especially the phone every week always

01:20:57   call it the phone but you know the phone

01:20:58   is just like the lamest of the things

01:21:00   that it does but it's a camera right

01:21:03   it's everybody's pocket camera right and

01:21:06   I'm you know a little bit of a camera

01:21:08   nerd and

01:21:08   I have like a that Rico that you know

01:21:11   that i carry around a little

01:21:13   pocket-sized camera and I mean it's a

01:21:14   pic i paid a hundred dollars for it so I

01:21:17   mean I my point-and-shoot camera cost a

01:21:19   tinderbox which you know I think

01:21:20   qualifies me not as a professional but

01:21:22   as a sort of prosumer idiot who spends

01:21:25   eight hundred dollars on a

01:21:26   point-and-shoot camera and I I you know

01:21:30   I don't know when I bought that around

01:21:31   2006-2007 a long time ago but in camera

01:21:36   you know if you're a camera nerd type

01:21:37   type of guy and I'm just not tempted to

01:21:41   replace it because i use it less and

01:21:43   less and less than I just shoot all the

01:21:45   you know if i'm not using an SLR my big

01:21:48   fat canon 5d that i'm using the iphone

01:21:51   and i think a 69 display makes way more

01:21:55   sense for a camera i agree it's not it's

01:21:59   not a for it's not an aspect ratio that

01:22:01   any I think there's like what may be one

01:22:04   panasonic stills camera that shoots and

01:22:06   sixteen by nine natively right but I can

01:22:10   definitely see it being becoming more of

01:22:12   a popular form at all because I mean

01:22:14   because a it's exactly the same as what

01:22:17   we see on our tvs everyday i think

01:22:19   that's that's awesome right i would love

01:22:22   I even sometimes like when I shoot a an

01:22:25   iphone still or irregular still with my

01:22:28   normal camera i call crop it to sixteen

01:22:30   by nine just because I know as more of a

01:22:32   film look to it as soon as cinematic

01:22:35   look to it

01:22:36   right right that was exactly you just

01:22:40   took the words right out of my mouth

01:22:41   that I you know people have said to me

01:22:43   and I get in all sorts of great smart

01:22:44   emails from readers and listeners but

01:22:47   one of the things that people have held

01:22:49   up as I don't think apple is going to go

01:22:50   16 29 is that the 423 camera 2423 camera

01:22:54   still photo ratio will be even worse

01:22:57   worse fit than on the existing phone so

01:23:00   my answer to them is exactly what you

01:23:02   said who says that the camera still

01:23:03   going to shoot for 23 right why not just

01:23:06   do co16 tonight if if if the screen is

01:23:08   69 why not just go 69 on the images to

01:23:11   yeah it's ok it's a clear wall it's

01:23:15   interesting questions so you know if

01:23:17   you're on your camera and your shooting

01:23:19   is still i'm just going to look at this

01:23:21   real quick

01:23:22   shooting is still and you've got that

01:23:24   full I don't know it's four by three but

01:23:28   it's like it's not a 16 by 9 frame is

01:23:30   taller than that and then you switch

01:23:32   over to video mode and then the I'm

01:23:37   trying to figure out does the sensor

01:23:39   widen out the are you getting more image

01:23:41   and video motor you can I are getting

01:23:42   less on your debt you're definitely

01:23:46   punching in and remind that right i had

01:23:51   a theory but that it was a dumb thing

01:23:52   right now it's a crop but that's why and

01:23:56   that's arm just throw-in it as what's

01:23:59   that thing called the olloclip ever seen

01:24:01   that

01:24:01   yeah let's look for dr. that's the whole

01:24:04   that's like the major point of that fish

01:24:06   eye lens on the audio clip I didn't

01:24:08   realize this and and many many months

01:24:10   ago on the on the show dan and I talked

01:24:15   about the other clip and I i said i love

01:24:17   the wide angle i love the close-up lens

01:24:19   the macro lens i don't get the fisheye

01:24:22   lens because it's so preposterous Lee

01:24:24   fish-eyed yeah the kids comedy lines

01:24:28   right right except and then I went to

01:24:31   Macworld Expo and I met ala clip guys in

01:24:33   there just 22 of the greatest guys you

01:24:35   can imagine just exact type of like

01:24:37   entrepreneur making their own thing like

01:24:40   I just the type of guys i just love to

01:24:44   guys who just had the idea to make this

01:24:45   thing and sell it and and it's you know

01:24:47   became a hit and I said look I just

01:24:49   don't get this fish eye lines it's so

01:24:50   comical it is and yet it's a huge chunk

01:24:53   of the actual hardware thing would be so

01:24:55   much smaller and more easy to put your

01:24:56   pocket without it and he said well

01:24:58   people do use it for ourselves but the

01:24:59   big point is that it's great for video

01:25:01   because the videos on the iphone shot

01:25:04   crop sensor and with that ridiculous

01:25:05   fisheye it actually just turns it into

01:25:07   like wide-angle lens for video and as

01:25:11   soon as he said that was like oh duh can

01:25:13   perform that super useful and at that

01:25:15   that's where people use that all clip

01:25:17   fisheye lens is to shoot video smart but

01:25:20   anyway they just 169 across-the-board

01:25:22   all sorts of things become a little a

01:25:24   lot easier right

01:25:26   your you shoot 16 29 photos they show up

01:25:28   on your phone and there's no crop and

01:25:31   then you just see what you shot and then

01:25:33   you show on your TV that they show up

01:25:35   exactly as they were shot yeah and you

01:25:38   know it just looks better because our

01:25:40   eyes are sideways

01:25:42   that's why widespread is it is wide

01:25:44   screen looks better because you know

01:25:46   we're used to seeing things panoramic

01:25:47   Lee yep i love 16 by 9 name my first kid

01:25:54   sixteen by nine