The Talk Show

3: Superman Didn’t Even Make His Own Logo, with John Moltz


00:00:00   only if you're desperate to stars love

00:00:03   Gruber on macbreak weekly but this show

00:00:05   is very slow and the content is if he

00:00:07   compared to other text shows just my

00:00:10   opinion by Jack daddy 5462 nearly

00:00:15   content-free two stars by I'm a Buddha

00:00:18   unfocused surprisingly incorrect about

00:00:22   many details and nearly complete waste

00:00:25   of time was the boot is so critical i

00:00:31   don't know a lot about Buddhism but I

00:00:33   know a little bit

00:00:35   there's a review of the last episode by

00:00:37   Sam Hill gosh

00:00:39   and I'm not exaggerating that was

00:00:40   written in all caps that me reading in

00:00:42   my all caps voice gosh what a waste of

00:00:45   time

00:00:46   give me a break you guys talk about

00:00:48   yourselves your show and your sponsors

00:00:50   for the majority of the time completely

00:00:52   self-absorbed trite crud totally without

00:00:58   direction as a two-star review by CM

00:01:00   Harrington the host sound almost

00:01:04   identical and they're short run length

00:01:07   is taken up by rambling about their

00:01:08   sponsors and the latest episode the host

00:01:11   arrogantly say the listeners who want

00:01:12   more focus don't get it

00:01:16   no John we do get it we simply don't

00:01:19   like it there is a reason most quote

00:01:22   professional unquote podcast this week

00:01:24   in tech macbreak weekly etc conform to a

00:01:28   formula even if informally because there

00:01:31   is an expectation on behalf of the

00:01:33   listener we want to know who is talking

00:01:34   we want the topics to be front-loaded we

00:01:37   don't want ten percent or more the

00:01:38   podcast to be rambling about your

00:01:40   sponsors and lastly could be better

00:01:44   three stars nice and five binary john

00:01:50   gruber is tomás de Torquemada to Paul

00:01:53   the rods don't a Hotei when it comes to

00:01:56   thoughtful and authoritative commentary

00:01:58   on technology the world of Apple would

00:01:59   be a cold and vulnerable place without

00:02:01   is insightful observations that being

00:02:03   said the podcast is underwhelming due to

00:02:06   its subpart production values and

00:02:08   planning

00:02:11   there's a lot of dead air arms as

00:02:14   off-topic remarks that stretch for a

00:02:16   long time and other minor annoying

00:02:17   things which could hopefully be fixed in

00:02:20   future episodes

00:02:21   wait a minute I'll shoot I blew it

00:02:24   these reviews are all from the old talk

00:02:26   show ah these are all gosh these are

00:02:34   healthy how did that happen I don't know

00:02:36   all i'm good on your part

00:02:40   let me get to the page for the new what

00:02:41   a terrible goof here we go here's the

00:02:44   new there's some reviews for the new

00:02:45   talk show new listener for stars by iana

00:02:49   connect

00:02:50   I thought episode one was pretty good

00:02:51   really don't mind the quote rambling

00:02:54   some call it fun listening ears was just

00:02:57   yeah I was gonna say i was wondering how

00:02:58   many people who write those reviews are

00:03:00   just simply don't like you I don't know

00:03:03   I wonder

00:03:04   here's another one by Patrick I go is it

00:03:09   seems like one of the rare individuals

00:03:11   who puts his name on these one-star

00:03:12   review rambling painful recording

00:03:15   quality if you've ever wondered whether

00:03:17   dan Benjamin was critical to the talk

00:03:19   show now you know he was the new guy

00:03:21   can't keep Gruber on track and seems to

00:03:24   record himself through his built-in

00:03:26   laptop life

00:03:27   ok alright that was not my built-in

00:03:30   laptop Mike it was however a microphone

00:03:33   on the wrong setting

00:03:34   so today and and to the person who

00:03:38   insinuated that i did not have enough

00:03:40   money to buy a good Mike I actually have

00:03:42   two mics and today I'm using the the

00:03:44   better of the two which is slightly

00:03:46   trickier to set up and I went the extra

00:03:48   mile today and I should have gone the

00:03:51   extra mile the last time and i should

00:03:52   say this is a spot on criticism

00:03:55   i'm joined again by my good friend John

00:03:57   Smoltz i'm john gruber this is the the

00:04:00   talk show the new talk show me one more

00:04:03   of these these is this is for the new

00:04:06   one this is for this from Jim lipsy

00:04:08   amateurish one-star no one knows his

00:04:10   subject matter as well as John Gruber

00:04:12   when he's focused and on point it's

00:04:14   great listening and Benjamin is why the

00:04:15   show used to consistently reach its

00:04:17   potential kept things on track with just

00:04:20   the right amount of conversational

00:04:21   tension

00:04:22   he made it look easy now Gruber is

00:04:25   trying out the driver's seat and a

00:04:26   format that features rotating guests and

00:04:28   the whole thing has become a meandering

00:04:30   mess that was exactly like listening to

00:04:32   two guys BS each other at the next table

00:04:35   at starbucks for 90 minutes i see that i

00:04:39   see it that pattern from the old reviews

00:04:41   but maybe that's just me

00:04:43   here's what here's a good one full of

00:04:45   hot air one star by Donald rapido

00:04:48   it was good when Benjamin was on it now

00:04:51   it's just Gruber stroking his own leg

00:04:54   o.o you go don't go

00:04:58   I got you good yeah yeahs site i didn't

00:05:01   want to pay extra my wife when I told

00:05:03   her two weeks ago and you know big time

00:05:05   it was a big deal when it was first

00:05:07   episode of the the newly-launched talk

00:05:09   shown and she said who's going to be on

00:05:11   and I said molt's she was like oh my god

00:05:13   that's great

00:05:14   perfect choice and then last week she

00:05:16   was like who's on and I said sandwich

00:05:19   and she goes she like plots and then

00:05:21   this week yeah she said was on and I

00:05:22   said molt's and she says him again

00:05:24   thanks for watching as as well all your

00:05:30   listeners thanks for being here

00:05:32   sure so what do we got this guy that I

00:05:35   think probably the big thing if you're

00:05:36   an apple apple nerd has got to be Tim

00:05:39   Cook's appearance at all things D uh-huh

00:05:41   so you know that's the big conference

00:05:43   out there in California and it's in

00:05:45   Southern California and even sure where

00:05:47   that is

00:05:48   yeah it is someplace in Southern

00:05:49   California San San something

00:05:52   yeah that's everything isn't everything

00:05:54   right everything in southern yes exactly

00:05:56   Santa doesn't count and something

00:05:58   California and Tim coating is actually

00:06:00   that it's and something which is Spanish

00:06:06   for something else actually and they you

00:06:10   know and that this is the only

00:06:11   conference that I can recall that Steve

00:06:13   Jobs ever regularly appeared at that was

00:06:15   not an apple thing like mad world or

00:06:18   WWDC and in fact they did a very what i

00:06:22   think is very nice thing is they

00:06:23   packaged up his six previous appearances

00:06:25   and I've made them available you know as

00:06:28   high-quality as they could get them free

00:06:29   of charges like a podcast on itunes

00:06:31   going back to 2003 or something like

00:06:35   that

00:06:35   right into it i forget which but yes so

00:06:37   pretty far back and I've seen an actual

00:06:40   number of them but i have not seen them

00:06:41   that far back so i'm gonna be interested

00:06:44   to watch those yeah i think the older

00:06:46   ones have got to be the ones that are

00:06:47   most interesting right because you know

00:06:50   Apple was a very different company in

00:06:52   2003 yeah well they got before the ipod

00:06:55   well no the ipod was just was pretty

00:06:57   much brand new way at you know what is

00:06:59   coming years one of those weird things

00:07:01   that I remember I don't have a great

00:07:02   memory for stuff a decade ago but I

00:07:04   remember that the ipod is exactly as old

00:07:07   as 911 because the launch was apparent

00:07:10   raid pushed back by a month because of

00:07:12   how 911 that they know we're going to do

00:07:14   it in September someone they pushed it

00:07:15   back to november so it's 2011 art 2001

00:07:19   did you buy one when it right when it

00:07:22   came out

00:07:23   not for myself I bought that first one

00:07:25   no for Amy as a christmas present and I

00:07:29   think historical and you know we've been

00:07:31   together very long time I thought I

00:07:32   believe that easily goes down as maybe

00:07:35   the greatest Christmas present ever

00:07:36   purchased outright 499 I believe yeah

00:07:41   not bad i mean that's that's that's

00:07:42   pretty good chunk of change

00:07:44   yeah because she's not i still have you

00:07:47   had a statement

00:07:49   what was the name of that brand it was a

00:07:51   solid stereo yeah I had one of those two

00:07:54   it was a rio and she you know wore it to

00:07:58   the gym and really liked it because you

00:08:00   know you didn't have to have it you know

00:08:02   disc players are never good for like

00:08:03   working out and take players sound like

00:08:05   crap and we had the napster so we had

00:08:08   tons of mp3's and everything like that

00:08:10   but you got the the Rio and the Rio I

00:08:14   swear this is no not exaggerating for

00:08:17   the sake of humor it held eight songs

00:08:22   i I really i mean as much as I'd like

00:08:24   64k or something like that i'm not not

00:08:26   not not good quality either write it was

00:08:30   like 128 kilobits per second mp3's and

00:08:33   hold around eight to 10 of them and and

00:08:36   the interface for getting songs in and

00:08:39   off on and off of it from a mac was just

00:08:41   awful i think until that was the app

00:08:45   that became itunes sound jam

00:08:47   yes it sounds him help with that but

00:08:51   then getting are upgrading our 22 a real

00:08:53   original ipod was a huge one

00:08:58   she will also if you ever catch her if

00:09:00   you catch her at you know and it

00:09:03   someplace where you run into me and my

00:09:04   wife and ask her she will sing the

00:09:06   praises endlessly of the original click

00:09:08   wheel the one that actually spun really

00:09:11   just because of the physical feat the

00:09:14   feedback

00:09:15   yeah she always enjoyed that sheet that

00:09:16   we said she's always been a much bigger

00:09:18   ipod user then I was so hurt you as much

00:09:21   stronger opinions on the various ipods

00:09:23   through the years than be so tim cook at

00:09:27   all things D yeah i might take on this

00:09:30   I thought it was pretty interesting i

00:09:32   watched it I read the the live blog and

00:09:36   much like Steve Jobs he's he's good you

00:09:38   know and it's you know it's an

00:09:39   interesting choice and a huge score for

00:09:42   that conference you know for Walt

00:09:44   Mossberg and Kara Swisher that Apple's

00:09:48   CEOs two of them trust them so much to

00:09:52   make this you know it really is

00:09:54   extraordinary they don't really speak

00:09:55   elsewhere Tim Cook I guess speaks at

00:09:57   regularly at the goldman sachs

00:09:58   conference so it's not quite as

00:10:00   exclusive again as it was for steve jobs

00:10:04   but it's pretty pretty exclusive on and

00:10:07   i need to do a good job but I also think

00:10:09   that they waste an awful lot of time

00:10:11   asking him questions that they know he's

00:10:14   not going to answer right like if you've

00:10:17   got Tim Cook onstage for 70 minutes why

00:10:19   why keep repeatedly try to get

00:10:22   information about new products out of

00:10:24   them right i mean that's a good grabbing

00:10:27   I guess they feel that they have to do

00:10:29   that

00:10:29   I mean it's sort of like this it's the

00:10:31   same thing on the quarterly conference

00:10:32   calls with are constantly trying to get

00:10:34   information

00:10:35   coming products and they say sorry we're

00:10:38   not going we're not going to give you

00:10:39   the information i mean i guess they feel

00:10:41   that that's their they have to they have

00:10:44   to do that

00:10:45   don't you think that they could get it

00:10:46   out of the way and maybe all right you

00:10:48   have to at least acknowledge it and but

00:10:49   you have to eat even if he comes back

00:10:51   next year get out of the way early and

00:10:52   just say you're not going to talk about

00:10:53   anything that's coming are you will say

00:10:55   no and then that's it and then you don't

00:10:57   really have to to do it

00:10:59   yeah I i think they they sort of feel

00:11:01   like that's the tough question that

00:11:03   they're going to ask him

00:11:04   I mean these things are not exactly

00:11:06   contra adversarial it's not 60 minutes

00:11:11   with that although it's not and that's

00:11:13   it that's as tough as they're going to

00:11:14   get with him is trying to drill him on

00:11:17   new products and so they they trying to

00:11:20   it I almost think that it's a waste of

00:11:22   time though and and I feel like he's

00:11:24   actually and jobs too often is

00:11:28   completely tight-lipped about anything

00:11:30   forthcoming but is surprisingly honest

00:11:34   and to the point about what they've done

00:11:38   and why so for example just one reason I

00:11:41   think tremendous example that we're

00:11:43   still going to be talking about

00:11:44   repeatedly for the next couple of years

00:11:47   that's the conference where jobs gave

00:11:49   his cars trucks analogy that post-pc

00:11:54   devices like the iPad he sees that and

00:11:57   the iphone he sees them like cars and he

00:12:00   sees old traditional PCs windows and mac

00:12:02   as like trucks and for a long time all

00:12:05   we had were trucks but it ends up most

00:12:07   people don't need a truck they're better

00:12:10   off with a smaller car and that's what

00:12:13   people are switching to their more

00:12:14   simple and people who really do need

00:12:15   trucks there will still be trucks but

00:12:17   it's going to switch and I think the

00:12:20   analogy is terrific

00:12:22   I think it is very apt analogy then it

00:12:25   came at that conference I think Tim Cook

00:12:27   is similarly open

00:12:28   yeah so you think i mean you think there

00:12:30   is just a waste of time for them to ask

00:12:32   that question i agree that it is a waste

00:12:34   of time for them to ask the question i'm

00:12:36   just saying that that's probably their

00:12:37   their motivation right

00:12:41   our friend Mike Daisey still added he he

00:12:46   he was not happy with the interview

00:12:48   Tim Cook felt they should have been

00:12:49   harder on him

00:12:52   surprise surprise regarding the asian

00:12:56   suppliers and the working conditions

00:12:58   there i'm gonna i'm not opposed to

00:12:59   something and I think in a way he's

00:13:01   right but it's obviously not the venue

00:13:05   for that and obviously what's going to

00:13:08   happen is if they start asking questions

00:13:10   that are like this these CEOs don't like

00:13:14   they're gonna stop showing up to those

00:13:15   conferences so we're in a way they're

00:13:18   they're just doing it because they have

00:13:21   to in order to pull the conference off

00:13:22   and get a bunch of big names that they

00:13:23   want right there's somebody somebody

00:13:26   should be i agree with him that somebody

00:13:28   should be asking those questions it's

00:13:29   not obviously not gonna happen at that

00:13:31   conference right he actually lost in the

00:13:33   lost in this point that that mike daisey

00:13:36   is pretty much lost all of his personal

00:13:39   credibility he actually has a some

00:13:42   decent questions that could have been

00:13:44   asked as a follow-up because i think the

00:13:48   one day and could you know is absolutely

00:13:50   right about this that Apple is leading

00:13:52   the industry in this regard right now

00:13:53   no other company that's in the same

00:13:55   racket is Apple is as open about the

00:13:58   working conditions in their factories

00:14:02   and in China as Apple is and they're

00:14:05   getting more aggressive about it there

00:14:07   instead of doing annual updates they're

00:14:09   doing monthly updates and I think that's

00:14:11   terrific i do think it's a step in the

00:14:12   right direction and I think he was

00:14:14   pretty open about the issues of AA

00:14:18   manufacturing in the United States and

00:14:21   admitted and I know this isn't this now

00:14:23   isn't it was an answer that was in

00:14:24   answer to a specific question about why

00:14:26   they don't write have factories in the

00:14:29   united states right but he does just not

00:14:31   exactly the same question right

00:14:35   he made a point of emphasizing that the

00:14:36   gorilla glass that used for the

00:14:39   touchscreens is literally made in the

00:14:41   USA not just designed and in the chest

00:14:43   the a5 right but I think for the most

00:14:45   part it was a pretty good interview he

00:14:48   also said what the big thing he said I

00:14:50   that I took away was that that there is

00:14:53   a company doubling down on product

00:14:55   secrecy

00:14:56   yeah that that phrases

00:14:59   slightly annoying but doubling down

00:15:01   doubling down somebody pointed i wish i

00:15:05   knew i would remember his name somebody

00:15:06   pointed out to me on twitter that he's

00:15:07   doing an awful lot of doubling down ya

00:15:09   know any used it used more than once

00:15:11   right

00:15:12   they're also doubling down on Cirie and

00:15:15   i forget what else maybe that might be

00:15:18   the only two but somebody said maybe you

00:15:19   don't want to go to play blackjack with

00:15:21   my getting two cards you get these don't

00:15:25   let down got a 15 against the dealer

00:15:29   thing i'm comin down

00:15:31   sure yep they have they've got a pretty

00:15:35   good hand though

00:15:37   well at least they have a big pilot

00:15:40   ships in front of the end that too so

00:15:42   you can afford to double down when you

00:15:43   have a gigantic stacking chips but i do

00:15:46   think I i do think it's true that

00:15:49   secrecy if anything and that's one of

00:15:54   those things these these like what's

00:15:56   going to be different when Steve now

00:15:57   that Steve Jobs is gone are they going

00:16:00   to be less secretive or people i know

00:16:02   there are some people who are

00:16:02   speculating that maybe they don't want

00:16:04   to be less secretive but people aren't

00:16:05   going to be it was fear that kept the

00:16:07   what the the planets in line you know

00:16:11   fear of this death start and where the

00:16:14   death star was Steve Jobs screaming at

00:16:16   you and firing you

00:16:18   the leaks will happen but I from

00:16:21   everything I've seen that has gotten

00:16:22   more secretive over the last year like

00:16:25   the big one to me is mountain-lion that

00:16:27   nobody knew the mountain lion was coming

00:16:29   until they brief the press on it

00:16:33   there were no rumors that hey you know

00:16:35   Apple actually going to do 10.8 this

00:16:37   year

00:16:38   yeah and you've pointed out of minutes

00:16:40   there seems there's a number of open

00:16:42   tracks at WWDC and nobody really seems

00:16:45   to know what's going to be in the house

00:16:47   we can come back to that in a minute

00:16:48   idea but i want to talk about the the

00:16:50   rumor thing first the other thing that

00:16:51   is definitely true and you see it this

00:16:54   week with no 9to5 mac had a bunch of

00:16:56   images the one thing that does leak is

00:17:00   hardware pre-release hardware because it

00:17:03   right because I they just don't have as

00:17:05   much control over that once in asia and

00:17:07   they're prototyping stuff as they do the

00:17:10   software the software in

00:17:12   cupertino i think is is as secret as

00:17:15   it's ever been

00:17:16   you think that because that's the that's

00:17:18   the biggest vector for for leaks that

00:17:20   digit times would do better than it does

00:17:22   exactly that affects millions like her

00:17:25   that's their source my are you know that

00:17:27   and actually write capable of the the

00:17:30   best managing that better

00:17:32   the best and most accurate source of

00:17:35   weeks about at forthcoming apple

00:17:39   products is the asian supply chain and

00:17:41   digit times which is based in Asia and

00:17:43   pretty much covers the agent supply

00:17:45   chain his little is accurate and ample

00:17:48   room and that's always their source

00:17:49   that's always what they say with their

00:17:50   sources are sources in the sponging

00:17:52   right i wanted to talk about this with

00:17:54   you I'm the first episode and didn't get

00:17:57   around to it because the show is

00:17:58   rambling and unfocused of course and i'm

00:18:01   a bad host but and i'm a bad guest so

00:18:05   but you ran and I know that you just

00:18:08   because of that your your history that

00:18:10   you like me are in a way obsessed with

00:18:14   Apple rumor sites and have long been

00:18:17   like from the nineties yep but almost in

00:18:21   a meta sense we're almost what's most

00:18:23   interesting about them isn't the actual

00:18:25   rumors

00:18:26   it's the rumor sites yeah it wasn't

00:18:29   always like that for me I think during

00:18:30   the nineties i read them obsessively

00:18:32   just because i really wanted to know

00:18:33   what Apple is going to release next and

00:18:35   it and I took them seriously took them

00:18:39   much more seriously back then I do now

00:18:40   or the thing and it was different it was

00:18:42   different back then I think it was

00:18:44   easier to get actually to get good

00:18:45   rumors back then maybe person the first

00:18:48   evening back at least enough to keep

00:18:50   some semblance of credibility right you

00:18:55   know that if you know only one out of so

00:18:58   many actually end up turning out it's

00:19:00   enough to keep people coming back it's

00:19:03   that whole you know risk versus reward

00:19:06   type thing where you are i'm going to

00:19:09   read this rumor and hope that it's true

00:19:12   i'm kinda taking a risk by wasting my

00:19:15   time reading all these rumors and you

00:19:17   have to get the payoff of actually

00:19:18   having some of them be accurate but it's

00:19:21   all but always shocked me though is that

00:19:23   in the grand scheme of things they were

00:19:24   all even the ones that

00:19:25   we're good were mostly inaccurate its

00:19:29   you remember do you remember one I had I

00:19:32   distinctly remember this and i have not

00:19:33   been able to find it that apple would

00:19:36   come out with crank powered laptops i do

00:19:39   remember that yeah I definitely remember

00:19:40   that yeah and i have not I that seems to

00:19:43   have been 86 and I thought it was going

00:19:46   but yeah it was now is good to me that

00:19:48   was the pinnacle that was the late

00:19:49   nineties and I was just and that was I

00:19:51   think that the cracking point from New

00:19:53   Yorker I and that's how I ended up

00:19:56   starting to make fun of

00:19:58   I I remember to I remember that rumor

00:20:01   and and correct me if I'm pretty sure

00:20:03   that it was also pitched as being a big

00:20:05   deal for education

00:20:07   yeah sure i'm not quite sure why because

00:20:09   i think it had something to do with you

00:20:11   know kids desks not being married powers

00:20:13   lugs yeah but it's sitting under trees

00:20:16   cranking there in the laptops not begin

00:20:18   your day with like the Pledge of

00:20:19   Allegiance and then you crank your

00:20:21   laptop hanging I guess it's not the

00:20:25   craziest idea that it i do remember that

00:20:27   when I remember it was somehow pitch is

00:20:29   being heated to deal for schools that

00:20:31   schools can't can't get kids power plugs

00:20:33   or something

00:20:34   budget cutbacks yeah well there's no

00:20:37   power all know the schools and power

00:20:39   that was before the dark days back then

00:20:41   search that money now

00:20:43   yeah but you ran in a sense the only

00:20:49   apple rumors site that had a perfect

00:20:52   record because it's probably wrong

00:20:55   everything on the crazy apple rumors

00:20:58   site was completely made-up yeah yeah so

00:21:02   did you ever have anyone crazy apple

00:21:04   rumors that you made up but then turned

00:21:06   out true i think so

00:21:10   the one thing I mean though I wrote it

00:21:12   wasn't on I wasn't crazy up rumors but I

00:21:15   wrote this for macworld during because

00:21:18   they do is annual you do this they do

00:21:20   these annual predictions for the coming

00:21:21   year and the the one they did and forge

00:21:26   and the January 2007 issue i said that

00:21:29   the Applewood release an iphone and it

00:21:33   would have one button and that was you

00:21:36   know at the time that was the craziest

00:21:38   thing I could think of

00:21:39   I just one button and you know there are

00:21:41   you gonna get on the phone with one

00:21:42   button how stupid is that that's great

00:21:44   and well the whole iphone with one

00:21:49   button that you find lots of bass i do

00:21:51   remember that is actually spectacular

00:21:54   that's my one claim to fame and I can't

00:21:56   beat that I repeat that every chance I

00:21:58   get and don't you just hope you really

00:22:00   hope that like a guy like Schiller Rick

00:22:03   happened to catch that one

00:22:04   yeah they do oie must-own must-see he

00:22:08   used to eat like don't wanna you wanna

00:22:11   get in that you say he is to read the

00:22:13   site i mean he was like he was actually

00:22:14   a big fan of the site around crazy apple

00:22:17   rumors

00:22:18   yeah and apparently would print them and

00:22:20   they would print out some of that the

00:22:21   good ones and and by post them on

00:22:23   people's doors if I wrote something

00:22:25   about one of the executives and I don't

00:22:28   know how far it went I don't know which

00:22:29   ones you don't get what he told me that

00:22:32   somebody can be some of them liked it

00:22:33   and some of them definitely did not like

00:22:35   it at and so I always wondered which

00:22:38   ones which was annoyed and which ones

00:22:41   did not now filter I definitely has a

00:22:45   good sense of humor

00:22:46   yeah down at yeah uh-huh and you know

00:22:49   the thing that make cars some funny was

00:22:51   that it was often I to me it was the

00:22:55   gist of each story was about a crazy

00:22:57   apple product prediction or something

00:23:00   that one you know somebody an apple is

00:23:01   going to do but that what made them

00:23:03   funny was the way that they played off

00:23:05   the way that this so-called serious

00:23:07   rumors sites presented their stuff

00:23:10   uh-huh and you know I'd the only other

00:23:14   thing that struck me is that the thing

00:23:16   that makes a website popular is the

00:23:18   thing I've I've learned running daring

00:23:20   fireball which is not and has never been

00:23:22   a rumor site but I've always had this

00:23:23   infatuation my head of how would you run

00:23:26   a rumor site that was actually accurate

00:23:27   and in some sense for a couple of years

00:23:30   there maybe that's what daring fireball

00:23:31   was was that I you know had quote

00:23:33   unquote little birdies and almost

00:23:35   everything i got from the little birdies

00:23:36   ended up being true but the way that I

00:23:39   did that is only printing stuff that I

00:23:41   knew to be true and that meant that in

00:23:44   it then you don't you can't print enough

00:23:45   right

00:23:46   I would only draw drop one of those

00:23:48   things every couple of months and so if

00:23:50   all there was a daring fireball

00:23:52   were the rumors it would it would be a

00:23:55   ghost town because it would be a sight

00:23:56   that was updated at best once every six

00:23:59   weeks or something like that and you

00:24:00   can't run a website like that like what

00:24:02   makes a website successful is regular

00:24:04   publication guy you'd have to have some

00:24:07   other you have to have some other hook

00:24:08   some other and you have to do news and

00:24:10   rumors right well nobody really know

00:24:12   what do I mean does anybody do okay i

00:24:15   guess there are some sites that will

00:24:16   report on the on the rumors but it seems

00:24:19   so haphazard and know that I think

00:24:22   that's what makes Arnold Kim's

00:24:23   macrumors.com search that's good that's

00:24:26   good that's a good example yeah right

00:24:28   Arnold Kim had what i think is the best

00:24:31   idea which is to do a meta site where

00:24:34   it's here's what's the rumors being

00:24:36   reported elsewhere

00:24:37   here's their track record and that's it

00:24:40   yeah but even macrumors if you look at

00:24:44   just read it every day a lot of it is

00:24:46   actually just news you know it's like

00:24:48   here's you know here's some new stuff

00:24:50   that's going on in the in the community

00:24:52   because you can't you just

00:24:53   there's just not enough rumors to only

00:24:56   have rumors and keep the site going

00:24:58   right unless you did you just make crap

00:25:02   up like me

00:25:04   alright let me thank our first sponsor

00:25:07   our first sponsor is excellent or pixel

00:25:11   mentor is an inspiring easy-to-use

00:25:15   beautifully designed image editor bill

00:25:17   to help you create stunning new images

00:25:19   and edit your existing photos on your

00:25:21   mac right I'm just gonna come out and

00:25:24   say it

00:25:25   here's the thing it's like photoshop but

00:25:28   it's 30 bucks and it's mac only and it's

00:25:30   built on all these great Mac

00:25:32   technologies and for years and years and

00:25:35   years and John I think you'll agree with

00:25:36   me people used to say as photoshop got

00:25:38   more expensive and photoshopped a great

00:25:41   app but it's very expensive right now a

00:25:44   new copy of photoshop from Adobe costs

00:25:46   forty-five thousand dollars for a single

00:25:48   seat license 45 thousand dollars people

00:25:51   will say why can an indie developer why

00:25:53   isn't there an indie developer out there

00:25:55   who's going to make something that

00:25:56   competes with photoshop doesn't have to

00:25:58   do everything photoshop does just do

00:25:59   most of it and do it really cool put in

00:26:01   a beautiful Mac interface that's what

00:26:04   pixelmon towards

00:26:05   it's a great app 30 bucks in the mac app

00:26:08   store you can find out more at their

00:26:10   website

00:26:11   www.pixiv.net or vix pls m8 eor dot-com

00:26:17   it has replaced photoshop for me it's

00:26:22   it's that I used to use i used photoshop

00:26:24   originally and then and that became too

00:26:27   much for me and then I went to the

00:26:28   what's the crew their consumer photoshop

00:26:32   light somebody like that and and even

00:26:36   that was was too much and pick some

00:26:39   stores even less than that even more or

00:26:41   less expensive than it does everything

00:26:42   that there are as far as i know it does

00:26:45   everything that they're the photoshop

00:26:47   lite version does because that's all I

00:26:49   ever used anyway and i think i think

00:26:52   that this did the short answer to the

00:26:54   why don't why aren't there some indie

00:26:57   developers doing that sort of

00:26:59   stripped-down something like photoshop

00:27:01   but you know far less expensive and mac

00:27:03   specific was that there was just even

00:27:05   just the rudimentary just the the least

00:27:09   version 1.0 you could feasibly ship was

00:27:12   just too much work for a small team

00:27:14   until Mac os10 added a bunch of these

00:27:17   graphics libraries that apps like pixel

00:27:20   matura can can build on to do stuff like

00:27:23   the filters and have stuff that

00:27:24   automatically goes to the GPU instead of

00:27:27   the cpu for performance so it's because

00:27:31   it's max specific it's you know because

00:27:33   it uses all of these image stuff and

00:27:35   Coco that that it's even possible

00:27:38   did you get that pronunciation from them

00:27:40   you know what I hope to god I got the

00:27:42   pronunciation right because I always but

00:27:44   I've been saying

00:27:45   pixelmator I let's find out

00:27:49   you want to bet five bucks on it sure

00:27:51   what the heck alright like Pixelmator

00:27:54   like like the video game version of the

00:27:56   truck from cars

00:27:58   yes yeah what's next

00:28:02   what about Windows 8 you wrote a piece

00:28:04   for macworld about windows 8 did i think

00:28:07   is eligible areas that was my hope right

00:28:10   that macworld is running articles on

00:28:12   windows 8 which i think is no you just

00:28:15   think that they ran it was funny

00:28:16   yeah right

00:28:17   but i do think though I think that the

00:28:19   Ark of the industry in broad terms is

00:28:22   that there was sort of a of I think the

00:28:27   Mac os10 era and the matter windows XP

00:28:31   era you know starting around 10 years

00:28:33   ago really kind of separated and mac

00:28:36   people were just mad people and windows

00:28:38   people were windows people i think a lot

00:28:40   of mac people just tuned out of windows

00:28:42   I mean I've got a long time without even

00:28:44   touching a version of windows just

00:28:46   wasn't even interesting to me and I feel

00:28:48   like with windows 8 and with all these

00:28:53   people switching to iOS it's coming back

00:28:55   together and there's a lot of people i

00:28:58   think there's a lot more interest in

00:28:59   windows 8 from Mac people than anything

00:29:01   Microsoft's put out a long time I think

00:29:03   that's true i mean i-i was interested

00:29:06   and I was not i mean i had to use

00:29:08   windows at work where I worked and so I

00:29:12   got to know it that way but I would

00:29:14   never have gone out and found out about

00:29:16   it on my own probably and this version i

00:29:19   think is there's a lot there's bigger

00:29:22   like I said it's it's so vastly

00:29:24   different from previous versions of

00:29:26   Windows that it's it obvious all that

00:29:30   stuff that we as Mac users found

00:29:32   distasteful will give me an example

00:29:35   well just the whole the whole metro

00:29:37   interface it's so basically the fact

00:29:39   that you could really use it without

00:29:41   ever having to touch the Windows desktop

00:29:43   right which is one of the things that we

00:29:46   just never really never really clicked

00:29:48   for us so and there's some great things

00:29:52   about I think there's some really nice

00:29:53   things about the Metro interface and I

00:29:57   would be interested to try it on a

00:29:58   tablet i don't have a tablet i could try

00:30:00   it on but it's there's some strange

00:30:04   strange and acronyms on a desktop device

00:30:07   because it seems really oriented towards

00:30:09   a touch device right that to me is when

00:30:13   I haven't spent a lot of time we using

00:30:15   it but it just looks to me like it is

00:30:20   meant for a tablet and die can see why

00:30:23   and it is definitely all credit to

00:30:25   Microsoft I repeat this over and over

00:30:26   again it is like nothing I've seen

00:30:28   before and I also

00:30:30   think a lot of people when the first

00:30:32   windows seven phones came out which is

00:30:35   the same metro basic UI style or metro

00:30:39   de beauté on the phones i think a lot

00:30:41   of people looked at in a first

00:30:43   impression was this looks cool but it

00:30:44   almost looks like something that's meant

00:30:46   for a bigger screen because the on the

00:30:48   phone

00:30:48   metro often has like if you have like a

00:30:50   little left to right thing that you can

00:30:52   flip through the next thing to the right

00:30:54   you see like the first I don't know 15

00:30:57   pixels of it over there on the right

00:30:59   edge like it's sitting there to give you

00:31:01   that visual clue that there's something

00:31:02   over there but it almost makes it look

00:31:04   like but you're getting too tight of a

00:31:06   crop on the interface it really looks

00:31:09   like it was meant to run on a tablet and

00:31:12   I guess we'll find out

00:31:13   here's here's did you see this thing by

00:31:15   this guy Michael mace yeah so you sent

00:31:17   that to me so I think it was the first

00:31:19   time I'd seen it because it's a great

00:31:20   post as long as very long very detailed

00:31:24   but but i think i completely agree with

00:31:27   it

00:31:28   alright here's the thing he says and I

00:31:29   right in the middle but uh I think it's

00:31:32   the most important thing he says the

00:31:33   most important message I want you to

00:31:35   understand is this

00:31:36   Windows 8 is not Windows Microsoft calls

00:31:40   it windows a lot of Windows code may

00:31:42   still be present in the hood

00:31:43   Windows 8 is a completely new operating

00:31:46   system in every way that matters to

00:31:48   users degree

00:31:49   yeah i think LOL i mean i don't know

00:31:53   about completely new operating system

00:31:54   but it is a largely new operating system

00:31:55   and that was one of the points that i

00:31:58   made my pieces is for enterprises which

00:32:01   is where you know most of Microsoft's

00:32:03   customer base or the biggest paying base

00:32:05   they are going to be faced with a real

00:32:08   challenge and implementing that

00:32:10   operating system because they don't want

00:32:11   to have to go through and retrain

00:32:13   everybody on how to use windows right

00:32:18   and a lot of them you know they stuck on

00:32:21   XP for so long that they and then vista

00:32:24   came out there like that doesn't seem to

00:32:26   be working very well so let's wait for

00:32:27   the next thing they waited for windows 7

00:32:29   and a lot of them have just finished

00:32:30   migrating to windows seven and now

00:32:33   they're faced with this thing that's

00:32:35   completely new i think a lot of them are

00:32:37   just gonna give it a pass for now and

00:32:38   see what happens with the next version

00:32:40   mmm yeah I I really

00:32:43   wonder I don't know it just seems like

00:32:45   it just seems like all because it's like

00:32:47   a tablet looking OS it just seems like

00:32:50   it would be silly on like a 27-inch

00:32:52   screen on your desk

00:32:54   yeah just like it just doesn't seem like

00:32:56   the ipad interface as it stands would be

00:32:59   all that would be what you'd want on a

00:33:01   27 inch touchscreen thing I still think

00:33:05   that they're calling it windows is like

00:33:07   if Matt if Apple had called iOS Mac OS

00:33:11   touch it doesn't mean there's the the

00:33:14   metaphors completely collapsing too

00:33:17   because they've removed and affect the

00:33:20   windowing because they all the

00:33:23   everything runs full screen now right

00:33:25   where's right originally and it was much

00:33:28   worse with with the original versions of

00:33:29   Windows Windows 31 where everything was

00:33:32   in a window and now they've gone

00:33:35   completely you know they just got rid of

00:33:38   all the windows and just that that

00:33:39   doesn't make any sense anymore right the

00:33:42   whole point of calling it windows was it

00:33:43   was all about windows and now they don't

00:33:45   have any windows and now everything

00:33:46   lowercase with now everything runs full

00:33:48   screen

00:33:48   I blend Ballmer I yeah I mean it's

00:33:52   that's the that seems to be the most

00:33:54   obvious thing to do

00:33:56   I think he got I think that at some

00:33:58   point 10 years ago he went out and got a

00:34:01   windows tattoo and you know that tattoo

00:34:07   isn't going anywhere like the zune guy

00:34:09   yeah exactly like the zune guy and so

00:34:12   everything is windows from from here on

00:34:14   that resume i eventually get apparently

00:34:16   got that tattoo removed

00:34:18   did you really yeah I did you didn't

00:34:20   like a is you didn't like the fact that

00:34:22   they weren't supporting it enough or

00:34:23   that they had basically effectively

00:34:25   abandoned it and laser surgery to remove

00:34:30   the tattoo I really worry about that guy

00:34:33   I wouldn't worry about the guy who got

00:34:36   an ipod tattoo Franklin yeah yeah I

00:34:40   don't really think that's not you know I

00:34:43   unsurprisingly perhaps too i'm not

00:34:44   really a two-person now i'm not but i

00:34:48   guess i can't think of anything that I

00:34:49   would want permanently on my exactly but

00:34:51   you know if you do if there's some

00:34:53   design that

00:34:53   that you would like to have on your

00:34:54   permanent more power to you particularly

00:34:57   suited and suit local forehead that soon

00:35:01   Logan really relations and especially

00:35:04   like you didn't lose a bet or anything

00:35:06   like he just went out there and got that

00:35:10   [Music]

00:35:11   so you see is that the next thing on my

00:35:16   list is this thing at the eff at the

00:35:18   Electronic Frontier Foundation two piece

00:35:21   on Apple's quote crystal prison GSP's I

00:35:27   did by michael lee and Peter Eckersley

00:35:29   what's your take on this

00:35:32   well i doing just read it a quick so

00:35:37   yeah go ahead of them two weeks ago

00:35:39   Steve Wozniak made a public call for

00:35:40   Apple to open its platforms for those

00:35:42   who wish to tinker tweak and innovate

00:35:44   with their internals BFF supports

00:35:47   Wozniak's position while apple's

00:35:48   positions have many virtues they are

00:35:50   marred by an ugly set of restrictions on

00:35:52   what users and programmers can do with

00:35:53   them

00:35:54   this is most especially true of iOS no

00:35:56   other apple products sometimes suffer in

00:35:58   the same way and then at the end and i

00:36:01   think at the end it's more interesting

00:36:02   where they have a like a bill of rights

00:36:04   yeah towards the bill of rights for

00:36:06   mobile computer owners there's four

00:36:07   rights that people purchasing computer

00:36:09   should enjoy one installation of

00:36:12   arbitrary applications on the device to

00:36:14   access to the phone OS at the root

00:36:18   superuser hypervisor administrator level

00:36:20   3 the option to install a different OS

00:36:24   altogether people want to install linux

00:36:26   on their phones etc etc hardware

00:36:29   warranties that are clearly independent

00:36:31   of software warranties

00:36:32   well I can get behind one of those I I

00:36:36   mean technically I can get behind all

00:36:38   four of them but i only I frankly only

00:36:42   give a rip about number four right i

00:36:44   mean i'm never gonna take am never going

00:36:46   to take advantage of the other ones most

00:36:47   likely so them right I'd when I have a

00:36:52   hard time if your screen goes bad if

00:36:54   your battery is actually like physically

00:36:57   like doesn't write charge and you're

00:36:58   under warranty it shouldn't matter

00:36:59   whether you've jailbroken or not because

00:37:01   I don't you know that's not the sort of

00:37:02   thing that could they could do that I

00:37:05   doesn't blow it does

00:37:06   ruin the pixels on your screen like

00:37:09   something that you do through the

00:37:10   software which is all jailbreak breaking

00:37:12   is should avoid the hardware like a

00:37:16   button breaks or something like that

00:37:18   I totally agree with that and I don't

00:37:20   know that a maybe somebody out there

00:37:22   correct me and I'll read the correction

00:37:24   last week i'm not sure that Apple's all

00:37:25   that hardcore about that like if you

00:37:27   bring in a jailbroken phone and it's

00:37:29   clearly a hardware problem did they tell

00:37:30   you to go blow I think they're I don't

00:37:32   think they do that I don't know about

00:37:35   recently I know there was some evidence

00:37:37   that they were not really following

00:37:38   through with that people were bringing

00:37:40   in jailbroken phones and if it was an

00:37:41   obvious problem that they could fix the

00:37:43   right except i think they might do is

00:37:45   they might ask you to restore in itunes

00:37:47   to a not sure open state and then if the

00:37:50   problem is still there then they can

00:37:52   then they can proceed

00:37:54   yeah which is I think that's fine right

00:37:57   I i think that it but if there's stop if

00:38:00   there's stopping people from getting

00:38:03   service simply because they have broken

00:38:05   their chill there the jailbroken phone

00:38:08   then I don't think that's something that

00:38:10   they should be and authoring what the

00:38:12   eff i have given them money i'm sure

00:38:14   that at some point in the future i will

00:38:15   give them money again and and on First

00:38:17   Amendment issues

00:38:18   I you know couldn't be more staunchly

00:38:20   and support of them and for certain

00:38:22   certain other things like if if if Apple

00:38:25   started pursuing legal action against

00:38:27   jailbreak developers i'm sure the eff

00:38:32   would back them up and help them legally

00:38:34   and i would support that I would

00:38:36   contribute money for that I don't

00:38:37   jailbreak my phone but I certainly don't

00:38:39   think there's anything wrong with the

00:38:40   enthusiasts to look for the ways to do

00:38:43   that I don't think there's anything

00:38:44   wrong with jailbreaking your phone right

00:38:46   but I also wouldn't blame apple for

00:38:49   continuing to close all of the bugs that

00:38:52   the jailbreakers used to get the

00:38:53   jailbreak in the first place

00:38:55   right because if you can jailbreak it

00:38:56   you can use that bug do something out

00:38:58   right so the i would totally be behind

00:38:59   the eff and that support but I feel like

00:39:01   the eff is just way out and it lala land

00:39:05   just irrelevant yeah like totally

00:39:07   missing the entire point of what actual

00:39:09   people want need from their computers by

00:39:12   calling these things ability right and

00:39:14   they really seem to not take give any

00:39:17   credit to the the idea that this is a

00:39:19   really making the platform or secure

00:39:21   some of these things are making a

00:39:22   platform or secure right there's no

00:39:24   mention of security and there's no

00:39:26   mention of simplicity and ease of use

00:39:29   like I mentioned this over and over and

00:39:30   I think that the whole appeal of iOS I

00:39:32   think again it's all these did the 67

00:39:35   million iOS devices apple sells for

00:39:39   every quarter or whatever the real

00:39:41   numbers but that fundamentally they

00:39:45   appeal to most people is that they it's

00:39:47   a system they know they they can get

00:39:49   around in

00:39:50   they know how to get around and they

00:39:51   know they're not gonna mess anything up

00:39:53   there's no way to mess it up you can

00:39:56   some also mentioned that they do also

00:39:58   include windows RT in this threat so

00:40:02   that they're not exclusively slamming

00:40:05   Apple but that's their major focus right

00:40:08   now but they do they do mention windows

00:40:11   RT which will be slipped similarly

00:40:13   lockdown right so like the idea of a

00:40:16   phone that has the option to boot to a

00:40:18   different OS well that's a fine idea if

00:40:20   someone thinks there's money to be made

00:40:21   making phones that that can dual boot

00:40:24   different phone os's but I certainly

00:40:26   don't think it's a bill of rights and

00:40:27   that users should demand that every

00:40:29   phone they can buy can boot multiple

00:40:31   os's and I just saw somebody else i

00:40:36   guess i wish i could link to open i

00:40:37   don't have in front of me but somebody

00:40:40   pointed out that for God's sake the pc

00:40:42   the personal computer is a device that

00:40:44   was literally built to support and you

00:40:47   know an abstraction between the hardware

00:40:49   in the OS and that there is and it's for

00:40:51   old Wang over a decade been linux 4pcs

00:40:55   and still like nobody wants to put linux

00:40:58   on their pc like one percent or

00:41:00   something like that so it's not exactly

00:41:03   you know like if Apple that you know

00:41:06   announces the WWDC that the iphone now

00:41:10   supports dual booting to linux

00:41:13   I get the eff i'm sure would hail this

00:41:18   as a great move and thank them for it

00:41:21   and I think everybody else collectively

00:41:23   would wonder if you know Tim Cook had a

00:41:25   stroke right i mean all of a sudden can

00:41:29   you imagine what Apple's talking to do i

00:41:31   think apple stock would tank immediately

00:41:33   because I feel like everybody

00:41:34   not that it would actually anybody would

00:41:36   actually do I just feel like it'd be a

00:41:37   sign that you know that there's a lot of

00:41:40   you know like mad men style drinking

00:41:42   going on during the day

00:41:43   cupertino ex-wife have to apply for a

00:41:49   job access to the phone OS at the root

00:41:52   superuser level here you go mom

00:41:55   login as root on your phone i add yeah I

00:42:01   just see a lot of like I'm never going

00:42:03   to use it and I see a lot of potential

00:42:08   I mean for and I know they get they get

00:42:10   so bent out of shape when you talk about

00:42:12   you that the mom or the simplistic user

00:42:15   because they prefer not to think that

00:42:16   that person exists but there really are

00:42:20   people who don't pay either don't want

00:42:22   to deal with that or are really not

00:42:23   capable of dealing with that right and i

00:42:27   think it might you said it would

00:42:28   what they're doing is they're they're

00:42:29   not even acknowledging the trade-offs

00:42:32   that are involved right

00:42:33   nobody is denying that for some people

00:42:35   and in some use cases these things

00:42:37   they're saying like having root access

00:42:39   to your phone or the first one being

00:42:41   able to install arbitrary applications

00:42:43   on the device right you know it if Apple

00:42:47   switch to make the iphone like mac OS as

00:42:50   we know it now or by default it only

00:42:52   takes apps from the App Store but you

00:42:53   can go into settings and flip a couple

00:42:56   of switches and say all right now you

00:42:58   can install apps from any signed

00:43:00   developer in the Apple Developer Program

00:43:02   you can just download it from their

00:43:04   website and in mobile support may be

00:43:07   right on your phone download it from

00:43:08   their website put in you know an

00:43:11   administrator password or something like

00:43:13   that to authorize it and then boom

00:43:15   you've got that app on your phone and

00:43:16   then maybe a third option that would say

00:43:18   you know what install options from any

00:43:20   source whether they're signed or not

00:43:22   and then give you a little warning about

00:43:23   you know maybe why you don't want to do

00:43:25   that if they did that you know a lot of

00:43:28   people would rejoice

00:43:29   I don't know that it would be a bad

00:43:30   thing it might be you know might be a

00:43:32   reasonable trade-off maybe that's where

00:43:33   they'll end up eventually maybe maybe

00:43:36   five years from now they might be forced

00:43:38   into something like that through

00:43:39   antitrust legislation if this stuff

00:43:43   keeps growing but i don't think that

00:43:46   there's any reason to consider it like a

00:43:49   moral obligation that it has to be that

00:43:51   way and I think it's ridiculous not to

00:43:53   acknowledge that the way things are

00:43:55   right now though more restricted is

00:43:58   actually more bulletproof right nobody's

00:44:01   going to get confused in settings and

00:44:03   flip the wrong switch and end up with

00:44:05   apps that haven't gone through the app

00:44:06   store

00:44:07   what do you think what do you think

00:44:08   apples motivation is and not what do you

00:44:11   think they're real motivation is and not

00:44:12   doing allowing that level of access

00:44:15   I mean they are the thing that they

00:44:16   everybody always says oh they want

00:44:18   everybody to go through the app store so

00:44:19   they can make money off the app store

00:44:21   well i know i mean the app store isn't

00:44:24   really where they make most of their

00:44:25   money make most their money selling the

00:44:27   device actually pretty really wanted

00:44:29   people really wanted devices that were

00:44:31   unlocked that way i think they would

00:44:33   have to ship them that way I i think

00:44:37   it's about control

00:44:39   you know I think it's about wanting to

00:44:42   maintain control over the experience and

00:44:44   that they think that for most people

00:44:45   it's better this way and that they've

00:44:48   very very seldom if ever in the

00:44:51   company's history

00:44:52   have they look back and regretted

00:44:54   maintaining more control in their hands

00:44:59   and look issuing more control rather

00:45:02   than give the control the users and let

00:45:04   them make choices in hindsight like

00:45:08   who's really like I you know I mean it's

00:45:10   it's harder to put that it's a genie

00:45:12   that's hard to get back in the bottle

00:45:13   yeah where it's easier to roll it out

00:45:15   this way started literally with no apps

00:45:18   right go a whole year without any

00:45:20   supported third-party apps and then when

00:45:23   the app store opened it was more

00:45:26   restrictive than it is today

00:45:27   like when it first opened there are

00:45:29   these rules like we're Calendar apps and

00:45:32   third-party email client for being

00:45:34   rejected because they were duplicating

00:45:36   what was the phrase existing

00:45:40   functionality yeah like there was I

00:45:42   gotta somehow like a rule that if it was

00:45:44   one of the apps built into the iphone

00:45:45   like calendar or mail you couldn't

00:45:48   duplicate it in the app store with an

00:45:50   alternative and it was you know

00:45:53   obviously that was really really

00:45:54   inconsistent because there were a lot of

00:45:56   weather apps right from the day one and

00:45:58   people like well if you can make weather

00:45:59   apps why can't you make another

00:46:00   calendaring up i hate apples calendar

00:46:02   app and my thought on that was I had

00:46:07   this theory at first then that the ones

00:46:09   that Apple wasn't gonna let be

00:46:10   duplicated we're the ones in the dock

00:46:11   the main apps which was like the music

00:46:16   playing app email the web browser and

00:46:19   phone what's the other one with someone

00:46:22   that's in that the dock on the ipod

00:46:25   touch i guess it's video is a video and

00:46:28   probably I don't know they replaced the

00:46:30   phone icon with video music but even

00:46:32   that's not true anymore right there's

00:46:33   there's gmail clients there's the great

00:46:36   sparrow app which is a truly remarkable

00:46:38   really full-fledged email client for the

00:46:44   iphone have you ever used sparrow

00:46:46   I'm not actually i personally don't like

00:46:49   it more than male but it's it's really

00:46:52   really close

00:46:53   it's a great app and the team yeah i

00:46:56   know lots of people like it

00:46:57   those things a lot differently i mean

00:46:59   one of the things they've added is like

00:47:00   a gesture to go to the next message

00:47:02   so instead of having to find a little

00:47:03   button or go back and then go to the

00:47:05   next button you can just do a gesture

00:47:06   which is I think a great idea to somehow

00:47:09   some way that you can just swipe swipe

00:47:11   swipe to read to read the email which

00:47:15   again is also a lot it's it's a very

00:47:17   metro e-type experience like when I've

00:47:20   used Windows Phone in some ways windows

00:47:24   phone is better for reading email

00:47:26   especially on a device you know small

00:47:27   screen because you just swipe swipe

00:47:29   swipe to go through messages did you see

00:47:31   you can now get a batman-themed windows

00:47:33   phone i did see that yeah i did see that

00:47:38   that's from nokia right kind of badass

00:47:41   it actually looks it does look pretty

00:47:44   good i think it's it's implemented

00:47:46   really well it's not implemented in a

00:47:47   really tacky way I don't I don't I don't

00:47:51   think it's going to change their

00:47:52   fortunes now now you know i i've always

00:47:56   thought this because i always think and

00:47:58   I think clearly of the all the

00:47:59   superheroes Batman has the best logo

00:48:02   oh yeah but so in addition to being a a

00:48:06   billionaire industrialist and

00:48:09   crime-fighting Crusader and the world's

00:48:12   greatest detective Bruce Wayne is also a

00:48:16   remarkably talented logo designer and

00:48:20   and sort of brand brand or apprehend

00:48:24   right i mean he's really you know he's

00:48:27   he convinced the police department to

00:48:29   shine his logo across the whole city is

00:48:34   little uh little throwing stars are

00:48:36   shaped like bats right Superman Superman

00:48:38   didn't even make his own logo that's

00:48:40   just like his family's crest I mean that

00:48:43   you know that was made by by some you

00:48:46   know Superman was really the worst right

00:48:49   i mean Superman million certainly have

00:48:52   all the popular ones Superman is kind of

00:48:55   the worst superhero and his poor color

00:48:58   to the leases take a colors just tasting

00:49:00   colors as bad guy released interesting

00:49:02   right

00:49:03   Green Lantern good logo but he didn't

00:49:05   make it that's the lantern for the whole

00:49:07   green lantern corps which has been

00:49:08   around i don't know right

00:49:10   10mm iya ya millennia spider-man

00:49:15   not bad not bad not bad yeah but this

00:49:18   right-hander ball over a teenager we

00:49:21   wouldn't be talking about if Nokia had a

00:49:22   spider-man right

00:49:25   they probably do who maybe they do you

00:49:31   know I guess in spider-man's coming out

00:49:32   this summer too i guess spider-man and

00:49:34   Batman will be right up against what i

00:49:35   was thinking that's why i was thinking

00:49:36   maybe they actually do have one yeah

00:49:38   hello together they gotta get on that

00:49:41   yeah you see rims floating down the

00:49:43   toilet having a there i mean it's got a

00:49:46   point and I know that we I used to make

00:49:48   fun of them and it's not it's almost

00:49:50   it's really not funny and it's getting

00:49:51   to the point now where is

00:49:52   I almost resistant I try not to make

00:49:54   jokes when I link to the stuff i just

00:49:56   linked to it and let it speak for itself

00:49:57   because I do know there's a lot of

00:49:59   people who work there is getting to the

00:50:00   point now where I really you know and I

00:50:02   don't like to hear about people getting

00:50:03   laid off

00:50:04   yeah i really don't and I don't think

00:50:06   there's any humor in that but it really

00:50:08   is starting to look bad for him because

00:50:10   they're talking around this for baseball

00:50:11   this is where they do implement the

00:50:13   mercy roll right right

00:50:14   this is where the Empire just comes in

00:50:16   succumb to this is ok ok

00:50:18   games over right and you did or like

00:50:21   miniature golf

00:50:22   you know like when you go miniature

00:50:23   golfing there's like a limit of six six

00:50:24   or seven strokes per hole right like you

00:50:27   know I mean like in your stole here

00:50:29   sitting on the icon away right you're

00:50:31   still on the other side of the windmill

00:50:32   you get to just pick up your ball and

00:50:34   put a six on the card like you don't

00:50:36   have to you don't have to finish this

00:50:37   that's why I guess that's what they

00:50:40   could use because what's the story

00:50:42   simply mercy rule you just lose but with

00:50:45   that they could keep playing

00:50:46   they've taken these mark mark downs or

00:50:48   something like that they call them on an

00:50:50   unsold inventory and they've done a

00:50:51   couple of them over the last year and

00:50:52   now they're talking that they might have

00:50:54   like a billion dollars and unsold

00:50:56   inventory just piles and piles of of

00:50:59   unsold blackberry phones i guess tablets

00:51:02   although a good you know whoever it was

00:51:04   still whoever didn't turn the off switch

00:51:06   on the tablet under tablets production

00:51:08   line a couple of months ago a trim

00:51:10   really really needs to be the first one

00:51:14   fired

00:51:15   I mean if they're still making those

00:51:16   things and have unsold inventory

00:51:19   I mean it's no surprise that they're in

00:51:21   trouble I don't know what you do and

00:51:23   that such and what it enters any way out

00:51:26   of that hole right

00:51:27   I don't know either it's a it's a bad

00:51:30   circle to go in you know where it to

00:51:32   sort of spirals down and I think so much

00:51:33   deeper hold an apple was in in the

00:51:35   mid-nineties yeah I definitely think so

00:51:38   I I definitely think it's a deeper hole

00:51:42   because the thing the weird thing about

00:51:43   apple in the nineties was that when

00:51:45   Apple was at its financial worst they

00:51:48   were actually selling more computers per

00:51:51   quarter than they had before and then

00:51:54   then they were after jobs came back when

00:51:57   jobs came back he cleaned up the product

00:51:59   line and he did have them doing

00:52:01   profitable quarter after profitable

00:52:04   quarter they

00:52:05   turning profits but they were actually

00:52:07   doing it by selling like a lot less max

00:52:09   per quarter it was by focusing and you

00:52:13   know they were selling all these max but

00:52:14   doing it at a loss and but it's still

00:52:16   it's like not a war situation to be in

00:52:19   to have those sales that were there

00:52:22   quarter after quarter where his rims

00:52:23   problem is that sales are just dropping

00:52:26   off a cliff they're just selling fewer

00:52:28   and fewer phones every quarter and

00:52:31   that's really their business

00:52:32   I'm gonna have no there's nothing there

00:52:35   no alternative I mean there's nothing to

00:52:36   ya right and I don't think that they

00:52:39   have the core audience that that Apple

00:52:45   had with the mac i mean obviously

00:52:47   there's there's blackberry addicts i'm

00:52:49   sure you know but i don't think that

00:52:51   that that they're not faithful the way

00:52:53   that things were faithful back them

00:52:55   right there is I think there's an awful

00:52:57   lot of blackberry users have already

00:52:59   moved on to android and iphone in her

00:53:02   happy for it that they just saw it is a

00:53:04   cool gadget not really that they were

00:53:05   blackberry people but they were like

00:53:07   cool smartphone people

00:53:10   yes it's I don't envy them right and I'm

00:53:14   gonna be that guy that took over

00:53:15   well that'll be there'll be lots of a i

00:53:20   would imagine we'll get some interesting

00:53:22   business analysis after the fact about

00:53:26   what happened

00:53:28   let me do the second sponsor right now

00:53:29   it's an app called the heelys h ue le SS

00:53:36   and their website is humilis app.com and

00:53:41   it's an iphone app and all it does is

00:53:44   take black and white photography right

00:53:46   she has a whole bunch of apps out there

00:53:48   for your iphone that let you apply

00:53:50   filters and all sorts of crazy looks and

00:53:53   in amongst those filters there's always

00:53:55   a couple of black and white options

00:53:56   Sheila's is an app that just narrows in

00:53:58   on that range of photography and makes

00:54:01   an entire app out of it and it does one

00:54:05   of the things it does that is really

00:54:07   really interesting is that it does

00:54:08   black-and-white preview so if you're

00:54:10   interested in shooting black-and-white

00:54:11   it's not you take pictures and pick them

00:54:13   out of your camera and then apply

00:54:15   filters after the fact there's plenty of

00:54:16   apps that do that

00:54:18   nothing wrong with that but humorless is

00:54:20   more focused on almost like classic

00:54:22   black-and-white film photography where

00:54:24   you're trying to your you're intending

00:54:26   to shoot black-and-white all along the

00:54:28   previews in black-and-white the exposure

00:54:30   and filter controls are right there so

00:54:32   you can get all sorts of different

00:54:33   black-and-white looks before you even

00:54:35   take the picture it's a really nice mix

00:54:40   between something you can use casually

00:54:41   just fired up take a black and white

00:54:42   picture and something that gives the

00:54:44   sort of controls that that seasoned

00:54:46   professional or amateur enthusiasts

00:54:50   photographers are really going to enjoy

00:54:52   here's a quote from one of their beta

00:54:54   testers that they think sums it up

00:54:56   nicely when i use Heelys on my iPhone I

00:54:59   find that I think differently

00:55:01   like loading your camera with

00:55:02   black-and-white film the resulting

00:55:04   photographs are genuinely retro without

00:55:06   any contrivance it's a great app and get

00:55:10   it on the app store and you can find out

00:55:11   more info at hewlett app.com I've got it

00:55:16   on my second screen my iphone did you

00:55:20   ever go through a black-and-white phase

00:55:23   with a film camera

00:55:25   oh absolutely i am I got into

00:55:27   photography in the late nineties and i

00:55:31   bought the the lowest and canon SLR like

00:55:36   200 bucks and you know it was SLR not

00:55:42   DSLR yet issued film and yeah you know I

00:55:45   was amazed at how much better the

00:55:47   pictures looked in on the pre SLR

00:55:49   cameras that I had but Dad then I

00:55:52   quickly got into black and white and i

00:55:53   found that the other thing I got into is

00:55:55   the fixed lenses did not a zoom lens

00:55:58   just like a static just a fifty-dollar

00:56:00   or eighty dollar fifty millimeter

00:56:02   Atlanta heard that could shoot really

00:56:03   nice and low light but I found that I

00:56:06   became a better photographer by having

00:56:07   fewer options so yeah if you want it

00:56:11   that would the subject to be bigger you

00:56:14   get closer if you want more of the

00:56:16   background in you move further away

00:56:18   that's the only thing there's no

00:56:19   decision about whether you zoom in or

00:56:21   zoom out or move you have to move

00:56:23   I'm black-and-white shooting

00:56:24   black-and-white is the exact same thing

00:56:26   and it absolutely i think I'm and you

00:56:29   know I know people have friends

00:56:31   no you're far far better photographers

00:56:34   and i'm going to teach photography

00:56:35   classes and people like james duncan

00:56:38   davidson it you know just shoot

00:56:40   photography professionally I I don't

00:56:43   know anybody who would tell you any any

00:56:45   good photographer would tell you that

00:56:46   you won't become a better photographer

00:56:47   by shooting black-and-white you'll

00:56:49   become a better color photographer by

00:56:51   learning to shoot black-and-white

00:56:52   because you learn how to find

00:56:53   interesting shadows and contrast and

00:56:55   stuff like that looks good in color too

00:56:57   yeah I think they used to start students

00:57:00   out that way i remember correctly cuz I

00:57:02   took a class years ago and i'm pretty

00:57:05   sure we started out shooting

00:57:06   black-and-white and beyond and there

00:57:07   were technical reasons for that because

00:57:09   it was easier and cheaper to develop a

00:57:10   curriculum yeah and you know that was

00:57:13   also part of the experience of learning

00:57:15   to be a photographer serious

00:57:16   photographers learning how to you know

00:57:17   develop your film in a dark room and

00:57:19   technically it was easier

00:57:21   black-and-white I think the chemicals

00:57:24   are less expensive or you know I don't

00:57:26   know it's just yeah i know i think

00:57:27   that's true i think that's your from

00:57:29   what i remember and I just I also but I

00:57:30   just came down to enjoy it too i really

00:57:32   like shooting a black-and-white i think

00:57:35   possibly because I'm not a good i'm not

00:57:37   a great photographer and I think it

00:57:39   actually made my pictures look better

00:57:40   and I had a I had a pentax k1000 which

00:57:45   was a fully manual camera which was a

00:57:48   crate camera and eventually got stolen

00:57:51   and I just I was heartbroken when I

00:57:53   camera got stolen but I went I went

00:57:55   through many many roles of

00:57:58   black-and-white black-and-white film

00:58:01   back in the day and that was just and

00:58:04   ended up with some great some great

00:58:06   pictures someone i still have boxes

00:58:08   lying around the house definitely one

00:58:10   Jonas was born I was still mostly

00:58:12   shooting with the film camera this was

00:58:14   2004 so like first first year i'd say

00:58:16   maybe not half but maybe at least a

00:58:18   third of the photos from his first year

00:58:20   I have been black and white and i just

00:58:21   love those photos there is in especially

00:58:25   as time goes on there's something

00:58:28   archival about black and white

00:58:30   photography

00:58:31   yeah you know the funny thing is you say

00:58:34   you have a pentax you had a padded

00:58:36   pentax k1000 you know it's funny I know

00:58:38   that camera i actually have one here

00:58:39   that I

00:58:40   I've found in seattle about 20 minutes

00:58:44   ya found by crawling on window and a

00:58:48   first-floor apartment highway going into

00:58:51   a closet in the bedroom

00:58:52   yeah it's funny how that happens

00:58:57   John ask a big favor of you

00:59:00   ok this is why this honesty is why I

00:59:04   wanted you back on the show and I have a

00:59:06   lot of people are saying can't believe

00:59:07   Maltese back on the show yeah but I my

00:59:09   goal for this show is to have it to be

00:59:11   like hosting Saturday Night Live for

00:59:12   people brag about how many times that

00:59:14   they've been the guests on the talk show

00:59:15   right and right now you're in the lead

00:59:18   you've got to write and that's great

00:59:21   I had your back because there was nobody

00:59:24   else who I could bear to ask to talk

00:59:26   about this last this last subject only

00:59:30   you you're the only one who I think can

00:59:32   take it I don't think anybody else has

00:59:33   the Constitution did I think this is a

00:59:37   lot this is a lot yeah I know I know the

00:59:39   one our friends a lot it's a lot to ask

00:59:41   our friend hazers Diaz gizmodo i'm going

00:59:46   to read that i'm just going to read the

00:59:48   headline on this is from moans this is

00:59:51   yesterday two days ago couple days and

00:59:53   changes that must have Steve Jobs

00:59:55   rolling in his grave because gizmodo

00:59:59   wouldn't know

00:59:59   wouldn't know

01:00:00   I'm not gonna put the average anybody

01:00:02   going to do the thing anybody wants that

01:00:05   they can just google hazers Diaz 10

01:00:07   things that have steve jobs in the two

01:00:10   of us institutions clicking through to

01:00:11   read it is enough

01:00:12   yeah I'm not going to put for them

01:00:14   probably more and more traffic than they

01:00:15   deserve

01:00:16   here's the here's the thing this thing

01:00:19   is so stupid it is like this if the Sun

01:00:24   instead of emitting light if the Sun

01:00:27   emitted stupid and you stared at it in a

01:00:31   way that when the real world you stare

01:00:33   at the Sun and you can go blind you if

01:00:35   you really really stare at this article

01:00:38   on haters Diaz little little little just

01:00:41   wipe your brain out it's that stupid

01:00:44   firsthand that the right of the top I

01:00:47   mean that very coveted the tastelessness

01:00:50   of having a picture of a zombie hand

01:00:53   coming out of a great with an apple

01:00:54   headstone my god it and then it says hey

01:00:59   guys only been dead for like six months

01:01:01   right

01:01:02   I hate the art that accompanies the

01:01:05   article is is literally a zombie hand

01:01:08   coming out of the ground with

01:01:10   unbelievable and apple logo on it teams

01:01:12   on the tombstone

01:01:13   plus it's our favorite format a top-10

01:01:17   list

01:01:18   yep i will say it's not it's not it's

01:01:20   not a slide show how much did you just

01:01:22   took the words out of you have the one

01:01:23   and only good thing you could say that's

01:01:25   what article is that it's not a

01:01:27   slideshow that is the one and only good

01:01:29   thing you can say about number one is

01:01:31   siri according to his authorized

01:01:33   biography jobs never really tried serie

01:01:35   he was handed the iphone 4s at the last

01:01:38   board meeting he attended just before he

01:01:39   resigned blah blah

01:01:41   don't get me started on Walter

01:01:44   Isaacson's biography right now Walter

01:01:47   Isaacson I'm sure had never seen Syria

01:01:49   before that meeting right but the idea

01:01:53   that Steve Jobs hadn't seen Syria until

01:01:56   august of last year

01:01:58   yeah use the CEO and at it as an Estill

01:02:04   season ski at fortune just reported last

01:02:06   week while he was CEO he effectively he

01:02:10   pretty much did all the Steve Jobs

01:02:11   deseos he did

01:02:13   product design product marketing any ran

01:02:15   mergers and acquisitions like when they

01:02:17   wanted to buy someone they do sent Steve

01:02:19   and Steve you know put his voodoo on

01:02:21   somebody came out with the company steve

01:02:24   jobs is the one who bought Siri Siri was

01:02:27   a third-party app that apple acquired

01:02:29   and when they acquired it Steve Jobs was

01:02:31   the CEO he acquired the company so he is

01:02:37   sight unseen right he acquired the

01:02:39   company now presumably had never seen it

01:02:41   before but he heard good things and

01:02:44   bought the company right

01:02:46   I as of last summer like a year ago

01:02:50   right now in june of last year Steve

01:02:53   Jobs was a man oh we don't know you know

01:02:56   how when his health really declined but

01:02:59   at the time he was healthy enough to

01:03:00   actually be onstage at WWDC for the

01:03:03   keynote he did the whole iCloud thing he

01:03:04   was sort of the master of ceremonies

01:03:05   presumably you would think apples

01:03:10   implementation of series was in

01:03:12   development at the time I mean I know

01:03:14   the iphone 4s didn't come out until

01:03:16   october but I don't think it's something

01:03:17   they just kind of whip together yeah

01:03:20   like a week after he submitted his

01:03:23   resignation and became chairman of the

01:03:25   board I it just defies belief that

01:03:29   anybody thinks that he was not fully

01:03:31   aware of love Siri now you may well be

01:03:34   very front if he were around alive and

01:03:36   kicking

01:03:37   he may well be just as frustrated as a

01:03:39   lot of us with how far series com or how

01:03:42   little it's come since it debuted and

01:03:44   some of the inaccuracies and the latency

01:03:46   and a lot of the things that you feel

01:03:48   like it could do but doesn't do

01:03:50   yeah it seems akin to any other thing is

01:03:53   just the idea that he would never have

01:03:54   shipped something like that and at the

01:03:57   same time they also ship mobileme right

01:03:59   so anyway you know after the fact was

01:04:03   completely angry that I didn't work the

01:04:06   way it's supposed to work and so maybe

01:04:08   he would be in that position it would be

01:04:10   that position right now but he'd

01:04:11   probably roll over and can you imagine

01:04:13   if apple / ship the phone that didn't do

01:04:15   copy and paste that would never happen

01:04:18   when I think jobs around i think that in

01:04:20   the long term and the next three four

01:04:21   five years ago be the worst part of Tim

01:04:23   Cook's existence where every single

01:04:24   thing that has that's less than perfect

01:04:26   will be greeted with God Almighty the

01:04:29   710 Stevens around and I keep I always

01:04:34   come back to antennagate if antenna

01:04:36   gated happened with the iphone 4s god

01:04:38   help everybody at Apple because that

01:04:41   would have been as as exaggerated as

01:04:44   antennagate was with steve jobs at the

01:04:46   helm handling it and running that that

01:04:49   last minute all right let's just face

01:04:52   this thing head-on press conference if

01:04:54   that had happened after he died I mean I

01:04:57   can't even imagine the the media

01:05:01   apocalypse that would have happened even

01:05:03   though it actually did happen the real

01:05:05   antennagate did happen under steve job

01:05:07   it would be branded as the you know the

01:05:10   sign that Apple is falling apart

01:05:13   number two on lasers Diaz top 10 list is

01:05:16   the 69.5 phone screen and then I didn't

01:05:20   even read this part all i know is that

01:05:21   he's illustrated it with a picture of a

01:05:23   giant 5 inch samsung phone it's just

01:05:27   completely opposite of every single one

01:05:29   of these rumors about the so-called

01:05:30   iphone or from 16 an iphone 4 and iphone

01:05:34   screen which is that is going to be the

01:05:36   exact same with and the phone itself

01:05:38   somebody just said yesterday is gonna be

01:05:39   seven millimeters taller and most than

01:05:42   the iphone 4 and 4s as we know them that

01:05:45   the phone isn't getting bigger it's just

01:05:47   that more of the front face will be

01:05:48   devoted to the screen and I mean

01:05:53   everybody never would have done it

01:05:54   the phone the phone would have stayed

01:05:57   exactly the same forever right i mean

01:06:04   yeah he made he certainly make comments

01:06:08   about lots of things that he didn't

01:06:10   think you know at the time and I mean

01:06:12   basically stuff that Apple didn't make

01:06:15   right and and then later in many cases

01:06:19   they didn't start making it and it

01:06:21   really meant he's just sort of it was

01:06:24   just sort of well i think that you know

01:06:27   famously halogen around validating their

01:06:30   fruit you know when they first ship to

01:06:31   ipods with could this my from one of my

01:06:33   favorites a first ship ipods with color

01:06:35   screens but all they really did was show

01:06:37   photographs and somebody asked him

01:06:39   hold why not video he said I don't think

01:06:42   anybody would ever want to watch video

01:06:43   on the screen this size

01:06:44   yeah end of quote that's it never gonna

01:06:47   happen in a year later the ipod had the

01:06:50   exact same size screen and played video

01:06:52   right that's just what he's that you

01:06:54   know everything that's just how he was

01:06:55   mean and like Tim Cook said I thought

01:06:57   was one of the best segments of his

01:06:59   thing at all things D this week that

01:07:01   that the man had a gift he called it a

01:07:03   gift at doing a complete 180 one day

01:07:06   over the next and he would forget that

01:07:08   he was arguing the complete opposite

01:07:10   point the day before that he could

01:07:12   change his mind then that you know that

01:07:14   there's just a good he was a good arguer

01:07:16   right obviously right so I think

01:07:19   everybody has that incident where nobody

01:07:20   wants to be wrong and so a lot of people

01:07:24   in the natural inclination for most of

01:07:26   us is that once we've made up our mind

01:07:28   we never change it because we don't have

01:07:31   to admit you're wrong where Steve Jobs

01:07:33   gift he still didn't want admit he was

01:07:34   wrong he would just change his mind and

01:07:36   then convince you that he had never

01:07:37   taken the never change that number 17

01:07:45   that is number seven on come on that is

01:07:46   the AZ list is that he'd be rolling in

01:07:49   his grave over apple's support of

01:07:50   charities and I don't even know where to

01:07:55   start this number one is that he points

01:07:57   to apples participation in this product

01:08:00   red thing which started like three or

01:08:03   four years ago home like with the red

01:08:07   ipod nano can happen when he was there I

01:08:13   said in his voice is that the only went

01:08:15   along with it because it was a marketing

01:08:17   win for Apple to get you to display ipod

01:08:19   and ok but yeah he actually did go along

01:08:23   with it and one that a lot of other

01:08:24   people site is that once Tim Cook became

01:08:26   CEO few weeks later they announced a

01:08:28   charitable donation matching where any

01:08:31   apple employee donates to a registered

01:08:33   401 C apple will match that up to i

01:08:37   think like 10 grand a year which i think

01:08:39   most companies Apple sighs do something

01:08:42   like that

01:08:42   right on now it's true that scream

01:08:45   that's really just an example of them

01:08:46   catching up with where they should be in

01:08:49   the industry

01:08:49   well but the other thing too is it

01:08:51   happened like two weeks after cook

01:08:53   over and I oh yeah I know firsthand that

01:08:56   you know something that was like six

01:08:58   months in the working behind ya you

01:08:59   don't just you don't just do that in the

01:09:01   right amount of time I would not be

01:09:03   surprised one bit if Tim Cook personally

01:09:06   it was was more into it and maybe even

01:09:08   drove it while still coo and jobs was I

01:09:12   get whatever you know I just don't think

01:09:14   jobs gave much of a crap either way on

01:09:17   something like that and I also wouldn't

01:09:18   be surprised if once they got close to

01:09:21   being able to announce it and and the

01:09:23   whole sad truth of where Steve's health

01:09:25   was going and and that he was going to

01:09:26   resign and hopefully stay on as chairman

01:09:29   of the board going forward etcetera

01:09:31   etcetera that part of the strategy was

01:09:33   hey this is the thing we can save and

01:09:35   then when Tim takes over and see do you

01:09:38   know it's like a little sort of throat

01:09:40   clearing of settling your butt into the

01:09:43   throne and learning how to wield the CEO

01:09:46   scepter that you know have a little

01:09:48   thing to do you know a little you know

01:09:51   something to do when you're wielding the

01:09:54   CEO stamp and why don't we save it up

01:09:56   it'll be a nice little thing that he can

01:09:58   do before we get to the to the real deal

01:10:02   you know announcing things like the new

01:10:04   iphone 4s and stuff like that and I

01:10:06   wonder maybe if wonder if they queued up

01:10:09   some of these things that are benefits

01:10:12   to the employees as a way to try to say

01:10:16   there and show them that they're going

01:10:18   to be advantages to having Tim courtesy

01:10:20   do

01:10:21   yeah I absolutely think they did you

01:10:23   know I think this was in a very very

01:10:25   well-managed transition you know I don't

01:10:28   think you know I I'd would be surprised

01:10:30   one bit if like as of a year ago at WWDC

01:10:33   2011 when Steve Jobs was you know still

01:10:36   well enough to be helping with the

01:10:39   keynotes and and pitching things you

01:10:42   know that there was still hope at the

01:10:43   time that that this whole you know steve

01:10:46   zahn believe he's not going to be there

01:10:47   full-time but he's the CEO and cooks the

01:10:49   clo that it would go on indefinitely

01:10:51   that the company was doing just fine

01:10:53   with that arrangement you know I'm sure

01:10:54   nobody was was not one single person was

01:10:57   hoping that it would turn out like it

01:10:59   did or even you know that he would be

01:11:02   forced to resign you know that nobody

01:11:04   was looking forward to

01:11:06   but i think it's it's just it's just

01:11:08   awful

01:11:09   I got just so stupid to think that he

01:11:12   was opposed to it

01:11:13   number nine company leaks like the ones

01:11:17   with apple TV & foxconn what what

01:11:19   exactly is leet with apple TV & foxconn

01:11:22   right that was like the dumbest thing

01:11:24   ever and you did you see that yeah and

01:11:28   and you know it

01:11:30   we have no proof yet that anything

01:11:32   accurate has been linked know it was

01:11:34   somebody asked like the CEO of foxconn

01:11:37   something about Apple's TV and all all

01:11:39   he said was just this is like and

01:11:41   responsive look we do whatever we can

01:11:42   with apple and if they get into TV I'm

01:11:44   sure we'll be successful we'll do

01:11:46   whatever we can to help and somehow that

01:11:47   came out as Foxconn CEO confirms apples

01:11:50   making TV sets

01:11:51   yeah whereas you know he really just

01:11:53   gave like an we're happy to work with

01:11:55   them and whatever no detail

01:11:59   no comment answer and it just got

01:12:02   completely blown out of proportion and

01:12:04   is a couple people have pointed out can

01:12:06   you imagine it

01:12:08   how stupid it would be for the foxconn

01:12:09   CEO to actually blab about forthcoming

01:12:12   apple products right like the man is

01:12:14   obviously not stupid

01:12:16   unlike lasers Diaz is that is that Tim

01:12:22   Cook in that image is that Chapman its

01:12:24   image there's an image of a ninja now

01:12:29   that's jobs that's jobs

01:12:31   ok because look at the glass can't tell

01:12:32   ya I can't they probably used in the

01:12:35   present Tim Tim was classes too but the

01:12:38   yeah but that the the nose pieces that

01:12:42   yeah okay and then number ten get this

01:12:45   is really my favorite is the user

01:12:48   interface details and they cite the the

01:12:50   rich Corinthian leather of ical and find

01:12:56   my family friends

01:12:59   i think is which which were shipped when

01:13:04   your shift while Steve Jobs was alive

01:13:08   and CEO right and as I've written I've

01:13:12   at least alluded to I mean and I i think

01:13:15   i actually talked about it on the talk

01:13:16   shows and more explicitly that i wrote

01:13:18   about it on daring fireball but it those

01:13:20   that that art direction came from steve

01:13:23   jobs like it was deep jobs who brought

01:13:26   in swatches of whether from like I think

01:13:29   a briefcase and said I guys they were

01:13:31   working on it and they said they want

01:13:33   this to be leather and he kept coming

01:13:34   back and saying no no that's not the

01:13:36   right type of leather this is all wrong

01:13:38   he brought in like a briefcase and

01:13:39   showed it to the designers and it was

01:13:41   like this is the type of leather and I

01:13:42   want the stitching to look like this

01:13:43   that that's what they're modeled after

01:13:45   like he micro managed for better or for

01:13:48   worse his taste is was outstanding

01:13:51   probably the best taste of anybody on on

01:13:53   the planet over all right it was not in

01:13:55   peccable but not not in this particular

01:13:58   instance like the example that Hayes's

01:14:00   Diaz picked could not be a better

01:14:03   example I think honestly of the way that

01:14:06   if anything apples design might get

01:14:08   better post steve jobs that without

01:14:12   steve jobs without that one person who

01:14:14   can get his way no matter what

01:14:16   nobody's blind spots and taste are going

01:14:20   to actually shipped to the public

01:14:21   whereas you know with leave it to just

01:14:24   the talented designers collectively

01:14:26   they're going to settle in on you know

01:14:28   that the exceptional bad designs are not

01:14:30   going to come out just because Steve

01:14:32   like them i don't know what I don't know

01:14:34   what motivates someone to write this

01:14:35   list I mean other than the obvious one

01:14:41   last time thinking that that's okay to

01:14:43   do that is just that's really bad really

01:14:45   bad just so tasteless it's really is it

01:14:50   really is it's in it and it's like I

01:14:54   don't know to me it's like the most

01:14:55   offensive form of tastelessness because

01:14:57   it's just so cheesy

01:14:58   it's not even like really tasteless it's

01:15:01   not like

01:15:02   delving into the man's personal finances

01:15:05   are you know other aspects of his life

01:15:08   like a gossip magazine like real CD

01:15:10   stuff like which in some sense is

01:15:12   morally worse but I almost feel like

01:15:15   this is more offensive because it's so

01:15:17   stupid i guess the stupidity that really

01:15:20   offends me last thing i want to talk

01:15:24   about going to talk about WWDC

01:15:26   speculation I I made up a thing yes i

01:15:28   totally made it up and this goes back to

01:15:30   the earlier thing that we're talking

01:15:31   about rumor sites where i find it way

01:15:33   more fun to find things that I don't

01:15:35   really know anything about that nobody's

01:15:36   told me anything I don't have any little

01:15:38   birdies but just just make guesses about

01:15:39   what Apple might be doing and like you

01:15:42   said with the the WTC schedule came out

01:15:44   and there are an awful lot there's

01:15:46   somebody I think somebody count them up

01:15:47   and it's 43 sessions on the schedule are

01:15:51   to be announced and the thing that

01:15:54   really caught my eye is that an awful

01:15:57   lot of the to be announced sessions are

01:16:00   in the biggest room in the building

01:16:02   which in my memory it--and I wish it's

01:16:05   one of those things where i wish i had

01:16:06   been collecting it like i do claim

01:16:07   charter for years and years is looking

01:16:09   at all WWDC preliminary schedules the

01:16:14   big room upstairs called presidio which

01:16:16   is effectively it's the keynote room

01:16:17   which in my memory

01:16:20   I you know it does have to be announced

01:16:22   sessions for big new technology things

01:16:25   that are coming out but never like full

01:16:29   day's worth of to be announced sessions

01:16:31   where is this year at WTC tuesday

01:16:33   afternoon is all in presidio all to be

01:16:35   announced all day wednesday all day

01:16:37   Thursday to be announced

01:16:39   I think all day Wednesday and Thursday

01:16:42   there's one session at like 515 in that

01:16:46   room that's on the schedule with the

01:16:49   title and those five o'clock sessions

01:16:51   are like very ghost towns so my guess is

01:16:56   my guess from yesterday and people read

01:16:58   daring fireball ensure seen it

01:17:00   my guess is that the only thing that

01:17:01   would be big enough to warrant all of

01:17:03   those things it would be a new platform

01:17:06   that if it's just like a tweak if all

01:17:09   they have to announce our tweaks to the

01:17:10   existing platforms let's just say

01:17:12   hypothetically if they announced a 7

01:17:14   inch iPad

01:17:15   or they announce a bigger if they just

01:17:17   pre-announced a bigger iphone or even if

01:17:20   they announce something like a bigger

01:17:21   ipad a big 12 inch iPad or 15 inch iPad

01:17:24   there's work for developers to be done

01:17:28   to support the new sizes

01:17:30   I'm not taking anything you know trying

01:17:32   to say that it's easy for developers to

01:17:33   do that and that these sort of many

01:17:35   forms of fragmentation aren't

01:17:37   complicated i'm sure that there would be

01:17:38   sessions at WCC to tell developers the

01:17:41   best way to do this and that and how to

01:17:43   do that but it certainly wouldn't

01:17:45   require two and a half days worth of

01:17:46   sessions in the big room like even when

01:17:49   the i pad first shipped they actually

01:17:52   got developers to write ipad apps before

01:17:55   WWDC they announced it in like at the

01:17:58   end of februari and they said and you

01:18:00   know we're going to put the beta sdk up

01:18:02   right now and then in April when it

01:18:03   launches the app store will open for it

01:18:05   so like they gave developers five weeks

01:18:07   and just a website and it was you know

01:18:09   because it was mostly just like riding

01:18:11   big iphone apps doesn't take two and a

01:18:13   half days of sessions for something like

01:18:15   that right so my idea is apps for a new

01:18:19   platform like maybe say TV

01:18:21   yeah and this is something that we kind

01:18:26   of been looking for for a while I mean

01:18:28   it seems like people have been talking

01:18:30   about this but bond and off and not

01:18:32   really focusing on it too heavily for

01:18:37   them in the recent past but yeah it just

01:18:40   seems like the another another shoe that

01:18:42   it's been waiting to drop what one set

01:18:46   in my article though is that it i think

01:18:48   that if I'm right I would I think it

01:18:51   would also require them to announce a

01:18:53   major new Apple TV and I know that they

01:18:55   just released this one like eight months

01:18:58   ago or something like that but it's

01:19:01   really just a minor tweak on the appletv

01:19:03   one it just added or did they just

01:19:05   released this 14 months ago when the

01:19:08   ipad came out

01:19:09   yeah that's what yeah i'm just a couple

01:19:12   months ago so maybe but maybe it's a

01:19:14   software update maybe they could do i

01:19:16   think that the main thing I think that

01:19:17   apps for appletv would need and this is

01:19:20   ignoring the whole issue of whether

01:19:21   Apple would have to make the whole TV

01:19:22   set or whatever i'm saying if they can

01:19:24   make it into apps for the apple TV is we

01:19:26   know

01:19:26   at $99 thing you plug into your existing

01:19:28   TV I I just feel like the first thing it

01:19:31   needs is it needs a better remote

01:19:33   control

01:19:34   yeah and it maybe it doesn't need more

01:19:36   buttons on the remote maybe you can

01:19:38   still just be up down left right play

01:19:39   pause and menu but it's gotta be like

01:19:42   bluetooth for instead of ir because I

01:19:45   are did the line-of-sight thing just

01:19:47   kills me and it's too much latency

01:19:50   because I surely part of it would have

01:19:55   to be games right I just yeah but you

01:19:57   have to have to be and there's been a

01:20:01   lot of people don't seem very receptive

01:20:04   to the idea of using the iphone or an

01:20:07   ipod touch as a game controller and I

01:20:12   don't know I not so sure about that

01:20:16   I wonder if there isn't a way to make

01:20:17   that work that could be it

01:20:20   and I know that that's a popular that

01:20:22   definitely a popular theory and you know

01:20:24   it

01:20:26   do you use the remote mic into more

01:20:29   appletv yeah and which remote do you

01:20:32   usually used to use the actual iri

01:20:34   usually i usually use the ir remote on

01:20:37   because you know if it's if it's sitting

01:20:39   there because i can just grab it and

01:20:42   start using it whereas with one of my

01:20:44   iphone i gotta get it on my pocket I

01:20:46   gotta find negative unlock my iphone i

01:20:47   gotta find the app and it's usually just

01:20:49   faster to use the but that but it is

01:20:52   like you said before the IRS a pain in

01:20:55   the ass because if I'm sitting too far

01:20:58   or if i'm sitting at the wrong angle a

01:21:00   lot of times just won't work or is it up

01:21:03   and have to lean forward at work

01:21:05   yeah and there's a coffee table problem

01:21:06   i talked about this last week on the

01:21:08   show with Adam least we have that I i

01:21:09   slouch when I have a coffee table in

01:21:11   front of the couch and you gotta like

01:21:13   raise it up and find an angle Adam uses

01:21:15   the the app more than the actual remote

01:21:18   he loves the remote app i do like the

01:21:19   remote app but I find that I only take

01:21:22   it i go through that like you just said

01:21:23   the whole take it out of my pocket and

01:21:25   yeah it and get the remote app i only do

01:21:28   that when I have to type type something

01:21:29   it's the it's oh yeah yeah that's

01:21:32   obviously obviously worth it if I don't

01:21:35   get to what I want by just going up to

01:21:37   left right middle button i do that using

01:21:40   the regular remote but if I have to type

01:21:42   anything then I go then it's worth it to

01:21:45   get into the pocket take out the phone

01:21:47   in and find the remote app and open it

01:21:48   up and do it and then once i have it out

01:21:50   and I've done that I might keep using

01:21:52   the iphone app but it never gets into my

01:21:57   thing on that is I just can't see how

01:21:58   they can sell at $99 device that assumes

01:22:02   that you have a hundred ninety nine

01:22:03   dollar remote control

01:22:05   yeah I think they would have to be some

01:22:08   other right and maybe they sell some

01:22:10   sort of dummy device or ship a dummy

01:22:13   device with the right with the unit that

01:22:15   doesn't act as an ipod doesn't act as a

01:22:18   as a phone but it's just a just a remote

01:22:21   right there's something in here that I

01:22:23   don't see there's like a dot dot

01:22:25   yeah step in the middle that I don't see

01:22:27   but are there other things than the

01:22:29   iphone that they announced well in

01:22:32   advanced in advance of when it would

01:22:34   actually be shipping i'm trying to think

01:22:35   of other examples of that I mean no they

01:22:37   certainly do that obviously with

01:22:39   operating system releases but Mr other

01:22:42   hardware new platforms like that they've

01:22:45   announced well in advance

01:22:48   I don't know the appletv the apple TV

01:22:51   itself actually what now I think about

01:22:53   they did it they did announce that early

01:22:55   i'm just wondering if there if you know

01:22:58   that the actual apple you know the

01:23:00   television or whatever this potential

01:23:03   new platform isn't coming until the fall

01:23:06   shopping season but they're announcing

01:23:08   it early so developers get time to to

01:23:11   work on you know I wouldn't be surprised

01:23:13   if they did that because it's it's a

01:23:15   thing where yeah maybe it would dry up

01:23:16   its sales of existing Apple TVs but i

01:23:19   did that's not a big enough part of

01:23:21   apples that still infamously

01:23:23   self-described as a hobby

01:23:25   yeah so I don't feel like they would be

01:23:27   they would have if they felt like it

01:23:28   made sense they wouldn't hesitate to

01:23:30   forgo that hobbyist revenue which is

01:23:34   just like a rounding error overall for

01:23:36   them right the moment for a couple of

01:23:37   months if they thought it was going to

01:23:39   be a blockbuster holiday item

01:23:42   yeah yeah I really don't know what to

01:23:44   expect with that if I'm right I don't

01:23:47   know like is it going to be a thing

01:23:48   where hey we've got this great new

01:23:51   app platform and os for the TV and I

01:23:55   just skip the fact of whether it

01:23:57   involves apple-branded TVs or devices

01:24:00   you hook up to an existing TV or both

01:24:02   but I just I just can't help but think

01:24:06   it's going to require a new some kind of

01:24:07   new purchase but on the other hand it

01:24:10   seems a little ridiculous that they

01:24:11   would start selling this Apple TV in

01:24:15   April clothes and then three months

01:24:17   later say well that thing doesn't get

01:24:19   the apps so maybe the apps will just be

01:24:22   for the existing TV and the existing

01:24:24   remote control and all you get is up

01:24:26   down left right but if that's the case

01:24:28   iced I don't see them even though it

01:24:30   might be a big deal i don't see how its

01:24:32   days and days worth of developer

01:24:34   sessions at WWDC like to me i'm thinking

01:24:37   like if it's if it's lots and lots of

01:24:40   juicy developer info it's got to be

01:24:41   stuff like a gaming type quality of

01:24:44   experience that it's not just about

01:24:47   making an app that shows your videos you

01:24:51   know here's how you make an app that

01:24:53   shows a list of videos for for your

01:24:55   brand

01:24:56   yeah you know so that MSNBC could have

01:24:59   an app that's like the wall street

01:25:01   journal app that built into apple TV

01:25:03   today and if it's for those big media

01:25:06   providers anyway it doesn't even make a

01:25:08   lot of sense to have huge sessions at

01:25:10   WWDC like I think it's got to be more

01:25:14   than just how to show a list of videos

01:25:16   and punch one and then have the manual

01:25:18   play it's got you know if it's actually

01:25:21   if I'm right that it's developer content

01:25:23   it's got to be about games and and you

01:25:26   know any kind of creative stuff that you

01:25:28   might come up with you might want to run

01:25:29   on your TV

01:25:30   they're already plenty of games that use

01:25:32   the iPad as a sort of a TV and use the

01:25:38   iphone or ipod touch as a controller

01:25:41   yeah there's definitely some cool games

01:25:43   that use airplay haha from the phone or

01:25:48   iPad to transmit to the TV so you can

01:25:52   watch it on TV so maybe it's just the

01:25:55   next generation of that but if you would

01:25:58   assume that i don't know maybe there

01:26:00   would be some cool stuff you can do with

01:26:01   having two people who play party games

01:26:04   anymore I mean but if you could assume

01:26:05   that everybody has an iphone and you can

01:26:08   have this app running on your TV you

01:26:10   might be able to do some really fun

01:26:11   stuff for like a group of three or four

01:26:13   people if everybody had an iphone that

01:26:16   you've seen you seen the new controllers

01:26:18   for the the wii u right

01:26:20   no i don't think i have they're

01:26:21   basically I mean it's basically the

01:26:23   controls the existing controls on a wii

01:26:26   controller but there's a screen in the

01:26:27   middle so it so I has a larger yeah so

01:26:30   it's a larger controller and then that

01:26:33   the thing that you have added is this is

01:26:36   this basically had no ipod touch iphone

01:26:40   size screen right that gives you other

01:26:42   information on you know you're for you

01:26:45   personally as opposed to the other

01:26:47   players when does that supposed to show

01:26:49   time in the fall sometime in the fall

01:26:51   sometimes feel like and I a a you're

01:26:54   probably I think everybody would agree i

01:26:56   feel like if Apple is doing this that it

01:26:58   is way bigger threat it's a way bigger

01:27:00   threat to nintendo then to ya

01:27:04   PlayStation and Xbox where they're not

01:27:06   really coming in on those super graphic

01:27:09   heavy playstation / xbox games that that

01:27:15   I think of as those type of you know the

01:27:17   type of games that it's the first person

01:27:19   shooter and what's the word winsy right

01:27:23   because that's what Nintendo does so

01:27:25   well is is stuff that's not technically

01:27:28   I mean the wii it's so crazy because the

01:27:31   weed today still doesn't I'm not they

01:27:34   can upgrade it but there-there consult

01:27:36   doesn't do HD right and yet my kid is

01:27:41   obsessed with these games i can play

01:27:45   that he'll play zelda and we've for you

01:27:47   know as long as well let them so it's

01:27:52   not technical

01:27:52   wow it's that it's the you know the

01:27:55   whimsy that Nintendo yada Ya Ya Ya will

01:27:59   be interesting and you're going to be

01:28:01   there i will be there you gonna be there

01:28:03   gonna be there for a couple days i tell

01:28:06   people about the thing maybe I should

01:28:08   tell people about the thing if you feel

01:28:10   up to it and tell people go ahead and

01:28:13   just tell you if you're going to be a WC

01:28:15   if you're going to be in san francisco

01:28:17   during the week

01:28:17   WWDC keep your schedule open tuesday

01:28:20   afternoon we'll see

01:28:23   stay tuned stay tuned to the talkshow

01:28:25   stop by and give your one-star reviews