0:00:00you know one thing I've noticed i have
0:00:01noticed I thought about this last week
0:00:02that I'm better friends in general with
0:00:05programmers programmers make for good
0:00:08people in my opinion it better friends
0:00:12then what like other journalists yeah
0:00:14well you know it
0:00:15not that there's anything wrong with
0:00:16other journalists but I I don't know I
0:00:21to me there's something like the way
0:00:23that programmers minds work
0:00:25aah at I something about it appeals to
0:00:30me like one thing I've noticed over the
0:00:31years and I do you know we very seldom
0:00:32do this you and I sometimes once in
0:00:34awhile
0:00:35very occasionally while we're at a
0:00:36conference will get together and have a
0:00:38drink or something like that
0:00:39yeah you're a bit of a teetotaler
0:00:41exactly nah its if we don't it's the all
0:00:45Syrians it's not like we get there and
0:00:46anybody really didn't general talks
0:00:48politics right but I have noticed over
0:00:51the years that two programmers of
0:00:55different political allegiances can have
0:00:59a reasonable discussion in a way that
0:01:02almost nobody else if one is a
0:01:04conservative the others a liberal you
0:01:06know a republican a democrat whatever
0:01:08whatever you guys have up there and and
0:01:09in Montreal but you could be on
0:01:12different sides and programmers can have
0:01:14because they're their minds work in a
0:01:16very logical way that they can have a
0:01:19reasonable discourse about politics
0:01:21that's not to say one is going to agree
0:01:22with the other but it it doesn't devolve
0:01:26into ad hominem arguments and it's
0:01:29interesting said I die agree
0:01:32actually I've had a lot of discussions
0:01:34with people that I don't agree with
0:01:35politically but it's always remained
0:01:38pretty civil and and i think you're
0:01:42right i think it's like the like an
0:01:43analytical one of you where the other
0:01:45guy has a good point well okay you
0:01:48accept the point and you move on because
0:01:50if you're arguing about design or
0:01:52something like that
0:01:53well that's always going to be
0:01:54subjective but there's an awful lot of
0:01:56programming when you're collaborating
0:01:57with someone where it's like math either
0:01:59works or it doesn't work right
0:02:01I mean ultimately your that the feature
0:02:04it works it doesn't mean I mean you may
0:02:06have designed poorly but it's very
0:02:08concrete like is a crash
0:02:10what does it actually achieve the result
0:02:11that you want
0:02:11right are you getting 60 frames per
0:02:14second or you not getting 60 frames per
0:02:16second and three yes three binary
0:02:19exactly and I feel that it makes it in
0:02:22the same way that works for technical
0:02:24arguments emerge for political arguments
0:02:26just just shooting the shit about movies
0:02:28it also makes for good conversation
0:02:32yeah and I could you can see that any
0:02:35movies is a bit different because it's
0:02:36getting subjected to that right like
0:02:38what's your 60 frames per second for a
0:02:41movie like what's your objective what
0:02:42are you trying to achieve kind of it's
0:02:46not obvious still makes it but there's
0:02:48that sort of mindset still makes for a
0:02:50good conversation that's why i do i just
0:02:53have once you know I get back and I
0:02:55catch up on sleep a little bit always
0:02:57occurs to me that i just have I have a
0:02:59great time at WWDC yeah I have a blasty
0:03:02and what I mean you've got it
0:03:04I mean you're very analytical going
0:03:05again so you probably think i'm not
0:03:08surprised that you'd find that I super
0:03:11refreshing right and you know even the
0:03:14journalists who were on the same beat
0:03:15the guys who work at macworld and stuff
0:03:17like that
0:03:18I mean they're you know they may not be
0:03:19programmers but they're be closer to
0:03:21being programmers than most people who
0:03:22can you know say that their writers and
0:03:26I only go very analytical he acts like a
0:03:28lot of analytical people right and I
0:03:30think that's why you know the like Jason
0:03:33cells podcast the incomparable where
0:03:35they talk about movies and science
0:03:37fiction and stuff like that that I did
0:03:38it's more interesting to me than when
0:03:40you're you know general-purpose science
0:03:43fiction movie podcast would be because
0:03:45their approach to it is is again
0:03:48analytical yeah gram a big financial and
0:03:51again they did a sect the subject and
0:03:57lovingly but they do look really good
0:03:59job of sort of tearing it down taking it
0:04:00apart and seeing what they like and
0:04:02don't like about it and when they
0:04:03disagree it is it's it's a good argument
0:04:08it's cooking right right to be getting
0:04:12in fights last week i don't remember i
0:04:14cannot yet a black either like tuesday
0:04:17morning and what happened that Amy could
0:04:20be an Amy and
0:04:21no maybe I know you know what she was
0:04:22very excited that you're going to be on
0:04:23the show this week I yeah she's and she
0:04:27actually said she might listen to it
0:04:28this time
0:04:29really yeah it's that's high praise she
0:04:31didn't even listen to table soon she was
0:04:34true that's true you know a couple
0:04:37people only that that they were like at
0:04:41the lab the live show last week they
0:04:43said that you know that all that noise
0:04:45in the back of the room you know that
0:04:46that that was your wife
0:04:50yeah it was also it was her who texted
0:04:54me that they've closed the ball
0:04:55oh is it yeah it is my dog both of them
0:04:58did it was that got to text right during
0:05:00the show
0:05:01awesome i consider it and decided to be
0:05:03polite
0:05:04right from my wife and from the guy who
0:05:07owns the podcast network i'm on there
0:05:09are the two guys they're the two people
0:05:10who who wanted the bar reopened rather
0:05:13than the turns into the show
0:05:15well i have to tell you like once the
0:05:17bar open date stop listening to your
0:05:19show
0:05:20well my thigh while I listen after then
0:05:23went back and listened to it again
0:05:25cables awesome all cable is it's
0:05:27certainly very attractive fellow oh I
0:05:30keep saying that people that with it
0:05:31with bringing them up there for the live
0:05:33shows its cheating it's really like you
0:05:35know it's it's it's just cheating so you
0:05:38show up for your neighborhood
0:05:39three-on-three basketball game and you
0:05:42you've brought Kareem abdul-jabbar with
0:05:44you and even since seven foot two and I
0:05:48like personality-wise cable the cable
0:05:51series like the the size of Hockenberry
0:05:54on the side not the Hockenberry doesn't
0:05:57have a great personality but I mean he's
0:05:58got like it just a towering yeah immense
0:06:01uses is a giant of a personality right
0:06:05so you know what's funny i was trying to
0:06:07reach for some kind of baseball metaphor
0:06:09to describe cable but you went with the
0:06:12cream into butter one soon was trying to
0:06:15play your sports game but you beat me to
0:06:16it
0:06:17well basketball so is a rare sport where
0:06:19you can it you can bring in a guy who's
0:06:25seven foot two and then that's it
0:06:26there's nothing anybody can do
0:06:28we're going to mean there's nothing in
0:06:29baseball that's quite like that mean you
0:06:31can have I guess a pickup game and if
0:06:32you brought in
0:06:33the top pitcher in the major leagues
0:06:35nobody is gonna hit the guy but it's not
0:06:36going to be quite as obscene as you know
0:06:39is 74 allegedly giant right now but I
0:06:45thought that the live show went well
0:06:47yeah yeah right my snap judgment on that
0:06:50though the bar situation was a and I
0:06:52couldn't really think about it or
0:06:53discuss it because cable and I were amid
0:06:55discussion but I'm just and that's why
0:06:57you I think that you make better
0:06:58decisions like that if you just have to
0:07:00make the decision install right you make
0:07:02the right one of my thought was
0:07:03everybody if if we will open the bar and
0:07:11it gets noisy in the back and people
0:07:12can't listen to the show they can always
0:07:14listen to the download version the next
0:07:16day or next week whenever whereas if we
0:07:19keep the bar closed they're never going
0:07:21to get another chance to have that drink
0:07:22I can't agree more
0:07:28that's what I didn't I listen to the
0:07:29show like the next day or whenever it
0:07:31came out walking around San Francisco
0:07:33and yeah that was a day so whenever I
0:07:39got a fellow cable thanks a lot for that
0:07:40might be my guest this week I should
0:07:44probably say is a guy English guy thanks
0:07:48for being here it's a pleasure
0:07:50so guys background you enter and how to
0:07:53describe what do you do what do you do
0:07:54I'm a programmer but you were you
0:07:58specializing graphics yeah more or less
0:08:00but yeah i mean is i worked in the pc
0:08:03game industry for years and did some
0:08:05messed up on the consoles like PSP stuff
0:08:09and then I left and joined your game me
0:08:12Bennett did a bunch of mac software and
0:08:15then when the iphone came out a started
0:08:17contracting I've done a lot of the work
0:08:19on games and graphics in particular
0:08:21right but you're like a guy you're a guy
0:08:23who's going to sweat the details on
0:08:25frames per second
0:08:26yeah you're gonna make your gonna make
0:08:29something that's supposed to animate
0:08:30you're going to sweat the details to
0:08:32make it smooth
0:08:33yes that's pretty much what i do i
0:08:35optimize stuff you know get to get the
0:08:38album's working figure out the pipeline
0:08:40to make the process work smoothly
0:08:42I'm I i still think I think that there's
0:08:45some other WWE Cena
0:08:46just to talk about ya think everybody is
0:08:49sort of talked the retina macbook pro
0:08:53more or less to death right but there is
0:08:56something about that that I don't I
0:08:59don't think I talked about this with
0:09:00cable last week because i don't i don't
0:09:02think it had the Machine long enough and
0:09:07you you've seen it too
0:09:09and the thing that got me and stop me if
0:09:12i did talk about this with cable adds
0:09:13all kind of a blur but that the pixels
0:09:18per inch is lower than on the ipad then
0:09:21on the iphone iphone is like 300 and
0:09:24some that ipad is 267 pixels-per-inch in
0:09:27that retina macbook pro is 220 pixels
0:09:30per inch right and so I kind of thought
0:09:33will make you know I know it's gonna
0:09:34look awesome but I kind of thought maybe
0:09:36it wouldn't look as awesome as the phone
0:09:39and iPad because it's just not as many
0:09:40pixels per inch and I know that part of
0:09:42that is about expected viewing distance
0:09:44from the screen and your tend to be
0:09:47further away from a 15-inch laptop then
0:09:49you are from an ipad and you tend to
0:09:51hold on iphone really close to your face
0:09:53but what I've found in the week now that
0:09:57I'm really using this machine is that
0:10:00text looks way better than on the even
0:10:04the phone in the ipad its support
0:10:07blowing me away that it looks even
0:10:09better that it actually makes it makes
0:10:11me start to see the pixels on the ipad
0:10:13in the iphone retina displays and I
0:10:14think I know what it is and it's the
0:10:16sub-pixel anti-aliasing m which is only
0:10:20on the mac and not on iOS for various
0:10:24reasons and i know some pixel
0:10:27anti-aliasing is still somewhat
0:10:29controversial amongst those of us who
0:10:30really care about like anti-aliasing
0:10:33algorithms because I know like Mike
0:10:35Maddux had a tweet a couple weeks ago he
0:10:37told everybody they should just turn it
0:10:38off that everything looks better if you
0:10:40don't if you don't have it
0:10:41yeah I and I guess I mean for anybody
0:10:47who doesn't know the difference
0:10:48I mean I don't want this is one of those
0:10:50things where I could take 20 minutes to
0:10:51explain it but on the mac it defaults to
0:10:56they call it best for LCD any idea is
0:10:59that you use the red green and blue
0:11:04subpixels that comprise each actual
0:11:08pixel on the screen use the physical
0:11:11location of them to do the anti-aliasing
0:11:14which if you zoom in if you take a
0:11:16screenshot and zoom it way up you
0:11:18actually get like these weird color
0:11:19fringes around the letters so if you
0:11:22have black text on a white background
0:11:24traditional anti-aliasing the
0:11:27anti-aliasing that would be done with
0:11:28shades of grey which makes sense common
0:11:31sense would tell you that's how you
0:11:32would make these pixels look smoother
0:11:35the curves look smoother with sub-pixel
0:11:38anti-aliasing it's actually colors and
0:11:41it looks really weird if you zoom in and
0:11:43some people if the pixels on your
0:11:44display a big enough can see it with
0:11:47your naked eye and that bothers them and
0:11:49it also does some weird things where it
0:11:50kind of makes i think on old older
0:11:53displays with bigger pixels it it makes
0:11:55the fonts look thicker chunkier it will
0:11:59chunkier than without any kind of
0:12:01anti-aliasing right if you get if you
0:12:04like but maybe you chunkier than with
0:12:06traditional grayscale anti-aliasing I
0:12:09think that makes them look like bolt
0:12:10makes everything look a little bolder
0:12:12you don't think so I don't think so
0:12:17because I mean the tradition gray scale
0:12:18and using all three of those pixels
0:12:20going to be lit up like subjects is
0:12:22gonna be lit up right right i don't know
0:12:25maybe you know what I have to see
0:12:27excited by side but either way there's
0:12:30visual artifacts and I i think that the
0:12:33idea was that if the pixels get small
0:12:35enough you don't have to worry about
0:12:36sub-pixel aunt is in that regular
0:12:38anti-aliasing is good enough because the
0:12:40pixels are so small but I using the
0:12:42macbook pro for a week
0:12:44I doesn't no doubt in my mind that that
0:12:46sub-pixel anti-aliasing still makes a
0:12:48difference it makes everything look it
0:12:51makes text look just impossibly good and
0:12:54you can see it because there are still
0:12:56parts and in mac OS 10.7 em stuff that
0:13:00what you're going to correctly there is
0:13:01one of the reasons i have you on the
0:13:02show is stuff that's drawn into a layer
0:13:05back view is that right is not is not
0:13:09doesn't get the sub-pixel entail
0:13:12Jason that's correct i'm 10.7 yeah and
0:13:15so you can see this here the easy way
0:13:17that everybody can see it is with the
0:13:19transparent menu bar that apple
0:13:21introduced a couple of versions of Mac
0:13:22os10 where you can see the half see your
0:13:26desktop through your menubar their texts
0:13:29in the menubar therefore it gets the non
0:13:32sub-pixel anti-aliasing and on the
0:13:34macbook retina MacBook Pro you can
0:13:36really see the difference
0:13:38I mean it looks good it certainly looks
0:13:39better than any text on a non-retina Mac
0:13:43but it doesn't look as good as the rest
0:13:45of the text throughout Mac os10 on that
0:13:48retina display so you okay well nice i
0:13:53looked at you know I looked at your
0:13:55reviewing and at the macworld one and i
0:14:00loved it i mean the text look amazing
0:14:01but I didn't you know I probably should
0:14:04have managed to zoom in and checked it
0:14:05alone but it didn't bother
0:14:07do you find it grading like no because
0:14:11almost everything is some pics on entire
0:14:13list right so it's just you know it's
0:14:16like it its it's not grading because
0:14:18it's like looking at very very good text
0:14:21and insanely very good text you can see
0:14:25the difference you can see you can start
0:14:26on the menu bar you can see pixels and
0:14:29if you get close enough when you're
0:14:30looking like inside like a safari window
0:14:32forget it you mean like can get as close
0:14:35as my it's really funny it's like I've
0:14:37spent this week like not really using it
0:14:41so much but like just like getting my
0:14:43nose up almost up against the screen and
0:14:45like trying to see the details and
0:14:47that's what I think that's what
0:14:49everybody does first time to get when
0:14:51they just stick your face right up to
0:14:52interest basically try to find pixel but
0:14:55it really does with text especially it
0:14:57is it to the naked eye you guys close
0:14:59why you just don't see pixels even the
0:15:01way you can when you get real close to
0:15:03the iphone 4 and stuff like that right
0:15:05well I mean so they don't do right think
0:15:07you know this but they don't do
0:15:09sub-pixel anti-aliasing on the devices
0:15:12because you can change the orientation
0:15:13and when you change the orientation you
0:15:16can rely on the layout of the sub-pixels
0:15:19the same way you can on desktop that was
0:15:21so amazing because I swear to you that
0:15:23was mine
0:15:23question and i believe that we have to
0:15:25I've asked you this privately like an
0:15:27instant messenger years ago when you
0:15:29you're my go-to guy for questions like
0:15:31that that was that was my question is if
0:15:33so why don't they do sub-pixel
0:15:35anti-aliasing on right okay too so and
0:15:40it's because it is so your answer is
0:15:42more or less because it actually relies
0:15:44on the order RGB obsessive pixels
0:15:47exactly the physical layout to be
0:15:49picture there you know going from left
0:15:51to right on your scheme screen it's our
0:15:53gbr gbr gbr gb and you can rely on that
0:15:57when you draw on your your shape your
0:15:59letter shape but now flip that so that
0:16:03it's in vertical orientation and it's no
0:16:06longer the same way right
0:16:07it's like it's RGB going downwards
0:16:10rather than going across so the
0:16:12algorithm has to change and it's
0:16:13basically just eat since you can't rely
0:16:16on lay out a bit where the subjects was
0:16:18going to be you can't really use the
0:16:21same algorithm and since the phone is so
0:16:23high density they just don't water even
0:16:25the original phone with high-density so
0:16:28one of the changes in mountain lion
0:16:30which references back to what i was
0:16:32saying before if one of the new things
0:16:34in mountain lion is that text in layer
0:16:37back views now gets the sub-pixel
0:16:41anti-aliasing yes and this has been a
0:16:44long time and it works right well it's
0:16:46not an easy thing to do because I'm like
0:16:50a layer is I'm trying to get at it
0:16:54describe it but in so if you think of
0:16:57and like you know I mean paper and you
0:17:00drawn something you can overlay it on
0:17:01something else you can see what's below
0:17:02it right and basically later like that
0:17:05you draw something on a layer and then
0:17:06you place it over something else you can
0:17:08see what's below it and you can posit
0:17:10the scene with it with a series of these
0:17:12sort of transparent layers now the issue
0:17:15with anti-aliasing text is that you need
0:17:18to auntie Lu set against the background
0:17:20so if you're drawing text into a
0:17:23transparent layer as you're drawing the
0:17:26text you don't know what the background
0:17:28is going to be as a background could be
0:17:30animated it could be animated exactly
0:17:32could be a lot of things so it's not
0:17:35obvious had
0:17:37it correctly antialiased text so they're
0:17:44fixing this mountain lion that there's
0:17:46change the way they handled entering the
0:17:48text so that it does actually managed to
0:17:50anti-alias in later back to you which is
0:17:54amazing because I think we'll talk about
0:17:57later but you know i'm working on mac
0:17:59app and then we add a plan to make
0:18:03anti-alias i lay back text work and it
0:18:06was going to be a huge pain in the ass
0:18:07to do but mountain lion just solves a
0:18:09problem for us if we don't need to tell
0:18:11me to worry about that we can come back
0:18:12to that later
0:18:13and so one of the things and weird
0:18:17another thing that we're going to come
0:18:18back to later but while we're on the
0:18:20anti-aliasing i should mention it is
0:18:21with the microsoft surface tablets which
0:18:25they're saying with their displays
0:18:27they're saying they have these cleartype
0:18:28HD and cleartype full HD displays and
0:18:33clear type is Microsoft's name for their
0:18:36anti-aliasing algorithm yeah and it
0:18:39again
0:18:39anybody who's a nerd and really sweats
0:18:41these details will know that if you look
0:18:43at anti-alias text on mac and the same
0:18:46fonts like on a webpage say on Windows
0:18:49it looks different because they have a
0:18:50different anti-aliasing algorithm which
0:18:52some people prefers other people don't
0:18:54but they call it clear type right it's
0:18:56the original right so pixel
0:18:58anti-aliasing actually i believe that is
0:19:00true but i like what i think was did
0:19:04something on the Apple too but that's
0:19:05one of the things that stuck out to me
0:19:07was it everything from here exactly one
0:19:11of the things that that struck me that
0:19:13with the announcement was exactly what
0:19:16we just talked about was that that on
0:19:18the iOS devices you don't get sub-pixel
0:19:21anti-aliasing because you're going to
0:19:24rotate the display they can order it so
0:19:25then they say these things have clear
0:19:27type displays and I wonder how they did
0:19:28that and I believe what what were you
0:19:32gonna say I just redefined the term yeah
0:19:35that they're not really doing it has
0:19:37nothing to do with the old cleartype
0:19:38they're just reusing the nation
0:19:40in the same way that they're reusing
0:19:41surface right what you mean there's a
0:19:44nuclear type just means a higher density
0:19:45display that's my take on all right you
0:19:47ever see the old surface the big
0:19:49tabletop thing in person no I did once i
0:19:53saw one up at Drexel University of a
0:19:55couple of about a year ago I think
0:19:57sometime in the last year I was up there
0:19:59to do a little talk and a guy Ranna like
0:20:03a robotics engineering lab that invited
0:20:05me to do a little talk to your needle
0:20:07adelphia and they had a surface and let
0:20:10me play with it for a while and I could
0:20:12not believe how lag it was it was like
0:20:14giving latency is just dreadful like
0:20:16they had it and they were doing some
0:20:18cool stuff with that they were doing
0:20:19some really cool stuff with mapping with
0:20:23it like the grad students but they were
0:20:25just getting killed by the latency was
0:20:27just deadly I'm even if we I think even
0:20:30pre ipad you know everybody would agree
0:20:32with it was like he by any standards but
0:20:34compared to what everybody was used to
0:20:36it was it was horrendous
0:20:38yeah I don't know that it would have
0:20:40taken off regardless i mean it was sort
0:20:42of i was gonna take off
0:20:43that's right it's it was kind of
0:20:45expensive is big and bulky and how many
0:20:47people need that kind of stuff I thought
0:20:49it was a cool idea is pretty interesting
0:20:50but you don't want that ship the same as
0:20:52the iPhone so right i cannot believe you
0:20:57know what though I think long-term knows
0:20:58somebody is going to make something like
0:21:00that you know
0:21:01yeah I mean you know that 10 years from
0:21:03now wooden Apple have something that
0:21:05size we're running iOS that you could
0:21:07get me there's maybe maybe I think it's
0:21:08an interesting form factor I think you
0:21:10can do things in a shared space and
0:21:12collaborate with it in in an interesting
0:21:14way right it would be like to have
0:21:16nailed it but I think they've got
0:21:17they've got an idea that's pretty decent
0:21:19it would be to iOS like what the mac pro
0:21:22is to Mac os10 like something for video
0:21:25that they're only going to sell a very
0:21:27small sliver compared to the mass market
0:21:29but that you could charge a lot of money
0:21:30and the people who need it really want
0:21:32right
0:21:33you know I can see their kind of thing
0:21:35in a store right totally or or you know
0:21:38there are all sorts of retail type
0:21:41situation and I think our classroom or
0:21:43something like that
0:21:44yeah take a shared space through very
0:21:48flexible workspace not to mention it's
0:21:50actually flat you can put stuff on it
0:21:52crap
0:21:52which is you know opens up a bunch of
0:21:54other interesting tips possibilities
0:21:56with the subject is all anti listen I
0:22:00know one way that everybody i always see
0:22:02it is when people are dicking around
0:22:03with CSS and using like transparent
0:22:07layers in CSS then instantly takes the
0:22:10text into the non sub-pixel anti-aliased
0:22:14right thing so I wonder if that gets
0:22:17fixed automatically now on 10-8 i don't
0:22:20know i have to look at that matters it's
0:22:22about the WebKit guys will make it work
0:22:24if the system supports that I bet they
0:22:26do
0:22:26edid see some pretty fancy stuff so you
0:22:32know it's interesting I mean have you
0:22:33seen it have you do you know any
0:22:34candidate on that thing you know what
0:22:36but I'm thinking after I'm i was
0:22:38thinking that I should though but that's
0:22:40what i was thinking before I do finish
0:22:41my review i'm going to you know and I
0:22:43don't know I feel a little bad putting a
0:22:46beta on it a lot Apple owner but I feel
0:22:48like it even if it goes bad I can always
0:22:50just reinstall lion on the thing
0:22:52well I mean if you get with the USB
0:22:53Drive just love that and put it on that
0:22:57yeah yeah i guess so i don't know there
0:22:59might be I don't know and I think
0:23:02they're gonna care that you put that
0:23:04really don't think they're going to give
0:23:05you
0:23:06yeah I don't think she'll but i do feel
0:23:07i would feel a little guilty mail it
0:23:09back to him like if it were breaking I
0:23:11go exactly it's like a brick
0:23:13thanks hon thanks man
0:23:16no I do and I don't know iight i to III
0:23:19tried to take good care of all my stuff
0:23:21i mean like my knock on wood my iphone
0:23:244s is still like an in perfect shape but
0:23:27I with the Apple review stuff i take
0:23:29extra good care of it and i'm sure they
0:23:31actually don't care like if you mailed
0:23:33it back and it was like nicked up and
0:23:35add things on and stuff what do they
0:23:36care i mean i forgot to give the things
0:23:38out like candy but i feel like i don't
0:23:41know if it's it's like the sense of
0:23:43politeness like when you're in somebody
0:23:44else's home you know like you you you're
0:23:46more careful as careful as you are in
0:23:48your own home not to put your shoes on
0:23:50on the furniture
0:23:51I'm twice as careful and somebody else's
0:23:53home and that's what I feel like when
0:23:55I'm using the apple of existence right
0:23:57well I mean if it makes you feel any
0:23:58better I wouldn't trust anything that
0:24:01you emailed me back to being in your
0:24:02home for awhile either i just you know
0:24:04things going right in the furnace right
0:24:06is done with it
0:24:08that is true object that is what they do
0:24:10to that I mail it back to them and they
0:24:12just like white gloves they just turn it
0:24:14up and put it into an incinerator
0:24:18I'm bed they do the sensible thing to do
0:24:20right right into whatever the whatever
0:24:23they recycle the stuff you know somebody
0:24:26said you know anything about this just
0:24:28some sort of jumping all over the place
0:24:29you but uh there was the thing about the
0:24:31the macbook pro not being upgradeable
0:24:35and and that you can't get into a blonde
0:24:37that I fix-it guy he also said he talked
0:24:39to his pals in the recycling industry
0:24:41and that the way it's all glued together
0:24:44means that that they don't know how it
0:24:46could be recycled
0:24:47I thought that was nonsense because I
0:24:49thought if you wanted to recycle an
0:24:51apple product that you're not using
0:24:52anymore you just go into the apple store
0:24:53and say here i'm done with this thing
0:24:54and then it they just take it that's
0:24:56their problem
0:24:57ya done it i I've died I haven't done in
0:25:00a while I sort of let a lot of my old
0:25:02Apple kit that i own pile up but i was
0:25:04thinking I'd it actually reminded me
0:25:06that maybe i should bring some of this
0:25:07stuff in like do I really need a powerpc
0:25:09powerbook anymore
0:25:11probably not meeting maybe we get me
0:25:15dude shut up and stop calling macbook
0:25:17pros powerbooks if I actually but I is
0:25:20what I thought is it's not your problem
0:25:21you don't have to go it's not like you
0:25:23buy a macbook pro and when you want to
0:25:25recycle it you've got to go and pried
0:25:26apart with a screwdriver and separate
0:25:28the aluminum from the glass and all that
0:25:30you just give it to happen to their
0:25:31problem
0:25:32yeah and I mean I gotta you know yet to
0:25:34be born again and you know just takes
0:25:36one he calls up his recycling buddy be
0:25:39like hey you know how to recycle isn't
0:25:41as a no well it's not like you can't
0:25:45figure it out in audiences he's asked
0:25:48you silly that whole scandal is
0:25:50ridiculous to me i don't understand it
0:25:52at all and so it's designing you know I
0:25:56used to build my own pieces and stuff
0:25:57and that i'm still that's over right
0:26:00time i get inland I can't believe people
0:26:02at the thing that gets me is that
0:26:04everybody acts each time like it's a new
0:26:05story right i remember you used to be
0:26:09able to buy even on a Mac it wasn't even
0:26:12just a pc thing you could buy processor
0:26:14upgrades right like that magazines were
0:26:17macworld was full of it was a huge thing
0:26:19because your computer did cost it costs
0:26:22so much back then like you by like a new
0:26:24mac to see I and 1991 and it was like
0:26:28five grand and then like two years later
0:26:32you could buy like a a cpu upgrade for
0:26:35nine hundred dollars rather than buy a
0:26:37new four thousand dollars a computer
0:26:39well that was actually you know it's
0:26:41pretty pretty reasonable thing to do you
0:26:43know I mean I i don't think i ever
0:26:45bought this processor upgrade but it was
0:26:47always nice to know that you could write
0:26:49and I think that's sort of the comfort
0:26:51is what some people are missing but i
0:26:54think he nailed it with it with the the
0:26:56price when it's 5,000 bucks that's a lot
0:26:59of money trying to keep it going you
0:27:01know but when like like whats this red
0:27:03Mack 2211 i think it starts to 2020 $200
0:27:08us i mean which you know that's a chunk
0:27:10of change but it's less than half of
0:27:14what look it look at good max across you
0:27:17and it's good gonna last longer and it's
0:27:20a lot more usable and register I just
0:27:23really don't understand it if you didn't
0:27:26see this coming after the ipod shipped
0:27:28without you know double-a batteries i
0:27:31don't want to say it's been like 10
0:27:33years now right and you do pay a little
0:27:35bit of a premium but it's not as
0:27:37anywhere near as much as it used to be
0:27:39like seif forget who priced it out i
0:27:41think of it i think it was i think was
0:27:43Marcos podcast last week but pressure
0:27:47was Marcone and Dan talking about it
0:27:50where if you if you'd upgrade if you buy
0:27:56the old 15-inch macbook pro the new old
0:28:00one non-retina one and in the build
0:28:03order upgrade to an SSD and instead of
0:28:07spinning hard drive it it almost comes
0:28:10out to like more than the price of the
0:28:12macbook pro with retina display that has
0:28:14one built in and even if you like go to
0:28:17OWCA or one of those places and by the
0:28:20SSD yourself so you're not paying the
0:28:23Apple premium for it it still comes out
0:28:25about even like it's actually not that
0:28:28much of a premium for it
0:28:30lets you know obviously I think that
0:28:31they've got these things packed in a way
0:28:33that you know it
0:28:35there really are engineering trade-offs
0:28:36for that's the other thing that gets me
0:28:38is that people who make this assumption
0:28:39that Apple's doing this out of that of
0:28:41upgrades might and it's not about
0:28:44engineering problems i mean i can't
0:28:47prove that it is i can't prove that
0:28:49gluing the i forget what include
0:28:52something is glued in there but whatever
0:28:54it is that's glued rather than using
0:28:56screws i think it might be the SSD I
0:28:58can't prove that that's an engineering
0:29:00thing and that they're solving a real
0:29:02problem and that the not having little
0:29:04screw mounts makes it even thinner than
0:29:06it could be but I'm that's what i would
0:29:08bet that they're solving an engineering
0:29:10problem and that bet that to you
0:29:13I mean it why
0:29:18like what why would they bother it like
0:29:21there-there Apple things about the
0:29:23product there I don't think they'd spend
0:29:27a lot of time thinking about how to
0:29:28screw random people that want to upgrade
0:29:30their SSD this right does it drive don't
0:29:34you finish first you finish hers was
0:29:38gonna say yeah I think it's a byproduct
0:29:39that people can't mess with these things
0:29:43rather than the like an intent right I'd
0:29:47and I don't think it's any coincidence
0:29:48that as the devices get thinner and
0:29:52lighter that's when these trade-offs are
0:29:54made right right it's the air in its the
0:29:58air that that you can't replace the you
0:30:00know that the ram is soldered on the
0:30:02motherboard and edits on the 13-inch
0:30:04macbook pro which still has a
0:30:05traditional form factor
0:30:07there's still a little screw panel you
0:30:08can take off and get it out and it's
0:30:10when the macbook pro went to this
0:30:12quarter introduction and height that
0:30:15that they switched that I mean I think
0:30:17this I think the reason they have the
0:30:20old Mac the old-new macros and this one
0:30:23is it you know this is basically a
0:30:25shipping and was a prototype but it's a
0:30:28it's the next street is the next
0:30:31generation of stuff like when they ship
0:30:32the air and it was just as one unique
0:30:35sort of thing was a new approach
0:30:38I think this retina mac book pro is the
0:30:40same kind of thing I would
0:30:41ship this product we're gonna basically
0:30:45it's the it's showing the way forward
0:30:49it's like this is the way everything's
0:30:50gonna go we're going to ship this one
0:30:52we're gonna be eventually doing this
0:30:54sort of aesthetic and approach to the
0:30:57product across the entire line let me
0:31:02take a break here and thank our first
0:31:04sponsor do you use fantastic alki I do
0:31:09actually find it in fantastic all
0:31:12fantastical is our first sponsor and and
0:31:16the thing that always strikes me about
0:31:17fantastical is this
0:31:19in the old days I'm talking way back
0:31:21like beginning Mac os10 i think but
0:31:25certainly the mac OS 9 era Apple stayed
0:31:27away from making the apps that you use
0:31:31on a daily basis we didn't even ship mac
0:31:33OS didn't even ship with an email client
0:31:35the old days didn't have calendar didn't
0:31:36have an address book and eventually that
0:31:39I think that became untenable and they
0:31:40had to you know sort of everybody assume
0:31:42that your system is going to come with
0:31:43stuff like that so the good news was
0:31:45well there's a system-wide calendar and
0:31:47address book
0:31:48the bad news is that meant that
0:31:50third-party address books and calendars
0:31:52really really the sort of kind of got
0:31:54wiped out because they sort of their
0:31:57business model was based on the idea
0:31:59that there's an opportunity there and it
0:32:02was taken away
0:32:04well I I i think some funnies happened
0:32:06over the years though we're with some of
0:32:08these apps and I think I Cal is the
0:32:10first and foremost I think that's on
0:32:11everybody's hit list is one of the war
0:32:13steps apple makes a huge opportunity for
0:32:17third-party apps because it stinks i
0:32:20mean i have never heard anybody and
0:32:22anybody get started in Iran about ical
0:32:24I've never heard anybody stand up and
0:32:26defend it and say boy I really like that
0:32:28count fantastical is a is a calendar app
0:32:32for the mac and instead of trying to do
0:32:35the same thing as i can but with a
0:32:36better interface it is like a complete
0:32:38rethinking of how you interact with a
0:32:42calendar on your Mac it's a little thing
0:32:44that lives up in your menubar and you
0:32:46click it or you have a little lat
0:32:48you can assign a keyboard shortcut to
0:32:50drop it down just a little skinny panel
0:32:52that drops down from your menu bar shows
0:32:54you this month
0:32:55under eye and it shows you in a little
0:32:59list today tomorrow the next day next
0:33:01three days three four days of your
0:33:03events so here's some here's a calendar
0:33:05for the month
0:33:06here's your events and this is the part
0:33:09that gets me because this is the thing
0:33:10that's the worst about ical is when you
0:33:12want to make a new event you just type
0:33:14in a text field in plain language and it
0:33:17just parses it and as its parsing it
0:33:20it uses this this great interface to
0:33:22sort of show you what it thinks you're
0:33:25typing so if you just type talk show
0:33:29thursday 1pm it just knows that that the
0:33:33event name is talk show thursday it
0:33:36noses this next thursday and you type 1
0:33:38pianos you mean 1pm and hit return and
0:33:42boom there it is a new event on your
0:33:44calendar so instead of like the way I
0:33:45characterizing not starting that's every
0:33:47time where it's like you type the name
0:33:49and then you go over to the field and
0:33:50you pick a month and you go over to the
0:33:52next field and you pick a day and every
0:33:55single thing is like tab to a new field
0:33:56tab to a new field just one field you
0:34:00type in plaintext it does an amazing job
0:34:02guessing what you're doing and visually
0:34:06it's a beautiful app it is so convenient
0:34:08so it's great for two things that I
0:34:10Cal's totally crap for one what's going
0:34:14on what's on my schedule today tomorrow
0:34:16the next few days
0:34:17easy easy obvious interface for it and
0:34:20for new event creation you just can't
0:34:23beat it
0:34:23i would i would buy it even if it didn't
0:34:25even have a view i would buy fantastical
0:34:27just for the text field for creating new
0:34:30events I think you should want an ad i
0:34:33think it didn't because it's an
0:34:36unconventional app in that it sits in
0:34:39the menu bar rather than having a main
0:34:40window that's a good point i do think
0:34:43and I you know what I think the other
0:34:44reason that I don't think it would win a
0:34:46DA is the internal politics of it is
0:34:48that it makes ical look so bad Frank
0:34:50exactly
0:34:51I'm you know it's a good a calibrator it
0:34:54really is it's it's it's going to give
0:34:57it a GD a right and so there's other
0:34:59ones you know i'll just mention like
0:35:00there's busy cow right and I mentioned a
0:35:03competitor while talking about this week
0:35:05sponsor because fantastic if you use
0:35:07busy cal as
0:35:08your ical replacement fantastical
0:35:10integrates great with it the one good
0:35:12thing about the apple/system is that
0:35:14it's a system provided calendar store
0:35:16like it works with your calendars that
0:35:18you've set up and I count the same way
0:35:20that busy so if you're busy Cal user
0:35:21which I am I don't use ical for anything
0:35:23if I need a big full screen
0:35:26here's a you know take up the whole
0:35:27screen thing i use busy count but
0:35:28fantastic out works great with busy cow
0:35:31right but i would buy it just for the
0:35:34the the input such a great app and
0:35:39here's the best thing the best thing is
0:35:40they're having I then this this one
0:35:42thing about this doesn't make any sense
0:35:44they're having a back-to-school
0:35:45promotion now this i don't understand
0:35:47it's it's June my kid just got out of
0:35:49school last week
0:35:51well did you know they don't know
0:35:53anything about dates those guys
0:35:55yeah I don't know that there have it i
0:35:56think they got the calendar on but that
0:35:59they're having a back-to-school
0:36:00promotion and it's fifty percent off
0:36:03well so everybody can get you can buy
0:36:05fantastical for 999 its regularly 1999
0:36:09you can get it now for 999 I think
0:36:11you're nuts if you don't have this app
0:36:13and you don't even have to take my word
0:36:15for it because they have a 14-day free
0:36:16trial man just do it
0:36:20yeah I don't just do honestly it's with
0:36:22ten bucks just to check out like if you
0:36:24have any interest in sort of a I or
0:36:27pausing anything just pay the 10 bucks
0:36:30type a few things into that field and
0:36:31see how good job is is it it's terrific
0:36:34yeah so you can just google fantastical
0:36:35go to the website or you can just go to
0:36:37flex a bit fle x ibit s.com and check it
0:36:42out
0:36:4314-day free trial 999 back-to-school
0:36:46promotion in the middle of june is a
0:36:49fantastic at my thanks to them for
0:36:50sponsoring the show this week so back to
0:36:55WC yeah I have two more things I want to
0:36:58talk about from WWDC and I got a couple
0:37:00of things to all right well one of them
0:37:02is is the pull to refresh that they've
0:37:05added to iOS yeah which is something
0:37:08I've been hoping they would do but the
0:37:10wondering if they never would write out
0:37:13of pride
0:37:14well two factors there's two factors
0:37:17there one is pride
0:37:18I well I would say three actually
0:37:22pride obvious pneus and patents right so
0:37:30pride is that it was not invented by
0:37:33them it was invented by lauren Richter
0:37:35for his 14 Tweety his you know which is
0:37:39now really in doing that which is now
0:37:42did been right well now it's the
0:37:45official twitter client now it's not the
0:37:46same
0:37:47that's not that's not Tweety now but he
0:37:50invented for tweeting so pride would be
0:37:53well he invented it and it was different
0:37:55than anything apple had come up with and
0:37:59so maybe they would their pride would
0:38:00keep them from adopting something that
0:38:02came from the third-party obvious is
0:38:06that and this is the day I think the
0:38:08worst argument and I don't really think
0:38:09even Apple would go for it is that it's
0:38:12there I OS favors the visual over the
0:38:16implied and gestures and iOS are almost
0:38:19always for things that there's a visual
0:38:21way to do so like you know the shortcuts
0:38:26that take gestures there's usually a
0:38:27button that you could tap to do it too
0:38:30but that doesn't really hold water
0:38:32because nobody's saying that they should
0:38:34get rid of the reload button and only
0:38:36have pulled over fresh they should just
0:38:38add it as something else and it doesn't
0:38:40take anything away
0:38:41well have you seen what they did do I
0:38:44didn't but I don't have it in front of
0:38:46me right now they did exactly that they
0:38:48got rid of the refresh button only that
0:38:51progression male I didn't notice that
0:38:54yeah which I find weird i would
0:38:55personally I would keep the button
0:38:57yeah yeah I would've kept the button to
0:38:59button certain anybody know and you know
0:39:02it was so I'm thinking that most i think
0:39:07i'm thinking that their line of thinking
0:39:10is that most people have push email like
0:39:14it's you don't actually need to refresh
0:39:15your email that much
0:39:17by default just come in mm so getting
0:39:22the buttons not that big a deal and if
0:39:24you want to pull to refresh well you've
0:39:25got it right
0:39:26that's good because I've said this
0:39:28before you know and and even now because
0:39:31on my main phone i still haven't
0:39:32upgraded to 6 beta but
0:39:34I because of pull-to-refresh and how
0:39:37many other apps third-party apps I use
0:39:38that have adopted it I i pulled a
0:39:41refreshing mail every time i'm reading
0:39:43mail on my phone every time I just do it
0:39:46I can't help but think that that's why
0:39:47they finally broke down and an added it
0:39:49is that they were doing it to probably
0:39:51and it's just it's just a good idea just
0:39:53makes sense and you know what they
0:39:55didn't just added to mail it's actually
0:39:56added to the underlying frameworks any
0:39:59table you can have a pull to refresh now
0:40:01right which is a big deal i think it's a
0:40:05sort of it to second official embrace
0:40:07it's not just that they've added it to a
0:40:08nap it's officially embrace that
0:40:10sprinkler system and now they did in a
0:40:12kind of a weird way it is that little
0:40:13animation thing like it looks like a
0:40:16water droplet the eastwood pull apart or
0:40:18like maybe like a piece of putty that
0:40:22you have stretching and then you want to
0:40:23you reach a breaking point and that
0:40:26yeah and then it yeah and like you said
0:40:28with cable last week it it triggers when
0:40:31you drink that the party rather than
0:40:33when you will like let go of me I'm
0:40:35right which is a bit weird but the other
0:40:38thing I kind of find a bit weird is it
0:40:40Lawrence implementation and pretty much
0:40:42all the other ones have some text
0:40:44telling you what's going to happen and
0:40:47the apple one just has this party
0:40:49you don't mean it doesn't say like
0:40:51pull-to-refresh sure it doesn't say
0:40:53what's going to happen something you
0:40:55know right they've actually made it less
0:40:57obvious
0:40:58yeah yeah it's not clear what's gonna
0:41:00happen when you break that thing right
0:41:03with Lauren's it was as soon as you
0:41:05pulled the view you're at the top of the
0:41:07view and as soon as you pull it down a
0:41:08little bit it would say like hey keep
0:41:11going you can pull the refresh me and I
0:41:15actually chatted briefly with Lauren
0:41:17about it just a I I thought it was his
0:41:20reaction to it was exactly what I
0:41:21expected but i just wanted to check to
0:41:24make sure i want to say hey to you is it
0:41:27like a thrill you kind of honored or you
0:41:29feel ripped off and he's like thrilled
0:41:31he thinks it's absolutely great that
0:41:33Apple is is putting it in the system now
0:41:36but like us hehe dis you know he doesn't
0:41:40think that the new all you have to do is
0:41:43pull and not let go that he did he did
0:41:46he likes his implementation
0:41:47better right so I so this is a good
0:41:50discussion we had last week I don't
0:41:52think you were there but there's a
0:41:53couple of us a table in Moscow knee in
0:41:56between sessions were talking about
0:41:58did Apple make that change so that it
0:42:02happens only when you after only by
0:42:04pulling not by pulling letting go
0:42:06did they do that out of pride like like
0:42:09they've convinced themselves like now we
0:42:11you know we didn't do it before but now
0:42:13we've come up with a way to make pull
0:42:15refresh right or is it a patent thing
0:42:19that the patent that twitter has on
0:42:21polar of fresh apples implementation
0:42:23doesn't violate the letter of it that
0:42:28knows combination i don't know I to me
0:42:31and it might just be my general version
0:42:34like repulsion I'm repulsed by software
0:42:37patents on silly things that I say no
0:42:40it's not the patent thing but I forget
0:42:42who it was that it was Matthew panza
0:42:44Reno was at the table and I think he was
0:42:46like reading he pulled up Twitter's
0:42:48patent application on it and and those
0:42:51pants I mean I just think I get two
0:42:53seconds into him and I just fall asleep
0:42:54i'm out i'm just it's like it's it's
0:42:58like a sedative
0:42:58it just puts me right out because of the
0:43:00way they're written but he was reading
0:43:01it and his you know layman's reading of
0:43:04it was that you
0:43:05you know that the patent describes pull
0:43:06down and let go and that if you you know
0:43:09that the apples actually on the good on
0:43:11you know so if that's actually the case
0:43:12that they had lawyers who said you know
0:43:14you've got to do this then I feel feel
0:43:16bad for the engineers who did it if it's
0:43:19because they think that this is better
0:43:21and you're out there listening please
0:43:23please please change it to two more
0:43:25closely follow the treaty model before
0:43:28iOS 6 finishes I really think that that
0:43:31this is not an improvement
0:43:32well this is not just me all right it's
0:43:34going to be absent we're going to be
0:43:36doing that right so I'm I mean it could
0:43:41be the patents but it they have a lot of
0:43:46patent fights right i don't think that
0:43:48they intentionally avoids doing what
0:43:50they think is great to it you know to
0:43:53avoid up to avoid patent they think
0:43:55they're constantly having patent but
0:43:57it's okay one thing that I think is
0:43:59irrelevant irrelevant
0:44:01his Twitter's promise not to use
0:44:04software patents yeah aggressively which
0:44:09is admirable
0:44:10I'm glad they did it's certainly better
0:44:12it's better than nothing and it's you
0:44:14know it's an admirable stands for the
0:44:15company to take but i think it's
0:44:17irrelevant because there is zero chance
0:44:18that Apple's lawyers give two craps
0:44:20about what Twitter is quote/unquote
0:44:22promised exactly
0:44:23yeah i mean i'd i'd believe them exactly
0:44:26i think there but that doesn't mean it
0:44:28it's not legally binding and handling
0:44:31soon
0:44:31exactly and whose you know you know if a
0:44:34new CEO comes into twitter he doesn't
0:44:36give two craps with the old CEO set
0:44:38right well exactly i mean used to say
0:44:40that Google is my Twitter and then
0:44:41reinstall the pants to New gabble
0:44:43exactly whatever right
0:44:45yeah alright so what are you get so I
0:44:50got a couple of things that I just want
0:44:52to talk about um so you had a bit
0:44:54regarding at possible tall screen iphone
0:44:58yes right and you suppose that they were
0:45:03pitch it at WWDC by i'm having the
0:45:08notifications sort of push down the view
0:45:11tune and they would encourage developers
0:45:14to make their layout more flexible
0:45:17vertically right right so one thing they
0:45:21did add which nobody's really talked
0:45:23about much is they've added an auto
0:45:26layout system to iOS where you can
0:45:30describe the relationship between
0:45:31various controls and how they react to a
0:45:33screen size changes so it's nice now
0:45:36like that you can sort of say well this
0:45:38you know this button should be at the
0:45:41end of this text field and with you know
0:45:43eight pixels in between it and they
0:45:46should both be clapped the right-hand
0:45:47side of the screen so that we need
0:45:48change the orientation all of the
0:45:51control certainly out nicely right it's
0:45:53like a way of saying these things should
0:45:55be at the bottom
0:45:56these things should be at the top and
0:45:57you don't have to define how wide the
0:46:00middle is right yeah you just described
0:46:02the relationships between the items and
0:46:05basically they're like where they
0:46:07respected the top and bottom left of the
0:46:09bed or whatever so that's in ios6 now
0:46:14that's like seems like that would be
0:46:17kind of handy for you know another
0:46:19device with a different shape screen
0:46:21right or yeah or an app that doesn't
0:46:24know the size of the screen
0:46:26exactly because for you know it there
0:46:28are a hundred million iphones out there
0:46:32with this size that the current size
0:46:34screen 1.12 one point that the 322
0:46:37aspect ratio iphone screen so even if
0:46:40it's true that the next iPhone has a
0:46:42wider taller whatever you want to
0:46:44describe it screen it's not like apps
0:46:47will switch to the new dimension they're
0:46:50going to have to support both but all
0:46:52right exactly and the auto layout stuff
0:46:55that's one of those that's a technology
0:46:57that started on Mac os10 that's not new
0:46:59its new to ios6 but it's not new to Coco
0:47:03know they edited in Lyon right and
0:47:05that's you know and it's useful for the
0:47:08mac obviously because windows most
0:47:10windows are arbitrarily resizable right
0:47:13yeah but it's interesting that they're
0:47:15taking that like a technology designed
0:47:18for arbitrarily sizable windows and
0:47:20bring it to a device with a fixed size
0:47:21screen right which you know makes me
0:47:24think that at the very least they're
0:47:26building in a system that will be able
0:47:29to support various sized screens it at
0:47:32some point in the future right i don't i
0:47:33don't want to play games and be coy with
0:47:35the NDA on session contents but i will
0:47:40say i haven't seen I didn't see the auto
0:47:42layout sessions but there at like at the
0:47:44top of my cue from the download list
0:47:46from the videos that came out yesterday
0:47:47or two days ago actually uh but I noted
0:47:51that there was it wasn't just one there
0:47:52was at least two it was like
0:47:54introduction auto layout on iOS and then
0:47:56there was an advanced auto layout on iOS
0:47:58right you know actually checked and it's
0:48:00here at the Auto layout was mentioned in
0:48:03the canyon so yeah yeah and well and I
0:48:06think that I don't think that the
0:48:07session titles themselves
0:48:09I mean and deny it i'm not going to
0:48:11avoid talking about session times but i
0:48:14don't think i think once the schedule
0:48:15came out you can say what the schedules
0:48:18you know what the you can say what the
0:48:20sessions are I think the contents are
0:48:22under NDA but i don't think that the
0:48:24titles of the sessions are and it
0:48:26yeah i mean i don't think anybody's
0:48:28gonna raise too much for stink right
0:48:31yeah so the other thing is Colonel level
0:48:36aslr which is address space layout
0:48:38randomization so when different when
0:48:42libraries get loaded into into the
0:48:44kernel they are placed in different
0:48:46locations in memory so that if you have
0:48:50an exploit code you can't you can't rely
0:48:54on like a certain function being in a
0:48:56certain place so it makes it harder to
0:48:58exploit the colonel so that has you know
0:49:02that two pretty big security step and
0:49:04I'm kind of interested to see how that
0:49:06affects jailbreaking on ios6 I that's
0:49:10interesting and I really was wondering
0:49:12long-term about that because Mac os10
0:49:14his head that's another thing that came
0:49:16to the mac first but i thought i saw and
0:49:19i just i don't follow jailbreaking that
0:49:20closely i thought i saw that somebody
0:49:22had already issued a jailbreak for iOS 6
0:49:24is that without the Joker's that not
0:49:25true I'd I haven't seen i don't know i
0:49:27just started with an interesting thing
0:49:29to look into heaven
0:49:30I mean maybe can still give you getting
0:49:34up early enough before they start
0:49:35happens but either way this is a good
0:49:38security thing
0:49:39yeah it's very good i've never seen any
0:49:42is always seems like whenever i see like
0:49:44i could guy like Charlie Miller right
0:49:49you know like at one of the absolute top
0:49:51mac OS at third party security guys out
0:49:55there like what his advice is all I SLR
0:49:58is that right aslr get address space
0:50:01layout randomization is at the top of
0:50:04his list of things apple could do to
0:50:07improve iOS right and so they did it
0:50:09which is cool right
0:50:11and there's another in other words if
0:50:12you find and exploit a buffer overflow
0:50:14where you can inject code you have no
0:50:16idea where it's going to go right
0:50:18whereas before a SLR it would go to the
0:50:21same place every time
0:50:22exactly and you can build a plan from
0:50:24there exactly so this makes it a lot
0:50:26harder at least two you know to exploit
0:50:30about for overflow right
0:50:31and next up on my little sister is a
0:50:34facetime over cellular accelerator
0:50:38which happened go ahead well I haven't
0:50:39seen anybody talk about that is anything
0:50:41that's what's on my list I don't want
0:50:43people are talking about it it there we
0:50:47go we've talked about it why do you
0:50:48think it's 4s and iphone or ipad 3 only
0:50:52I think it's pretty obvious I i think
0:50:59it's a marketing thing
0:51:00yeah I think it's just just to make you
0:51:03know that Dave and there's a pretty
0:51:05complicated matrix of all of iOS 6
0:51:08features and why what device gets what
0:51:11right i don't really understand what
0:51:13they're doing their bit but yeah I think
0:51:15it's probably American thing plus you
0:51:16know what it limits the number of
0:51:17devices that can actually do it which
0:51:20you know I I would be really interested
0:51:23to know what the carrier's actually knew
0:51:25this was coming
0:51:26I did too they didn't know I message was
0:51:28coming right we and I knew that African
0:51:31and maybe it was cuz you forget but I
0:51:34knew last year when they announced I
0:51:36message I forget it forget who I talk to
0:51:39about that but i got like it wasn't you
0:51:41somebody yet now it was i I now and I
0:51:44know who it was it was it was a good
0:51:46source they didn't know and the
0:51:50carrier's didn't know apple just did it
0:51:52and then I can't help but think it's the
0:51:54same here that they're not really giving
0:51:55they're not really not really up to the
0:51:57carrier's although we'll find out we
0:52:00will find out when it ships whether it
0:52:04you know like it's a thing like verizon
0:52:06has it an AT&T dozen right i mean they
0:52:10would have thought they'd said that
0:52:12yeah I don't know what I do know is that
0:52:15since day one it's worked with the sound
0:52:17working we just turn it off right you
0:52:20know and the the counter example would
0:52:22be tethering which is definitely up to
0:52:25carriers and they can bill you for it
0:52:27but i don't think so because I i think
0:52:30the reason is that carried that that's a
0:52:32that tethering is like a known carrier
0:52:36feature that they sell on other things
0:52:38and it was probably like I don't know
0:52:40that they built by whereas i did I can't
0:52:43see AT&T adding a new bill to your
0:52:45iphone so that you can do facetime
0:52:47right it's like you can almost see their
0:52:50deals with Apple mentioning tethering
0:52:52and we got like specific terms rounded
0:52:55alright then apple just goes invent
0:52:57something new that wasn't in the
0:52:59contract and cameras going to get
0:53:00stiffed right i'm curious to see how
0:53:03bandwidth-intensive it is
0:53:05yeah right because you can definitely
0:53:06run up against these the bandwidth
0:53:09caption like these you know two
0:53:10gigabytes is a lot for email and web
0:53:13surfing
0:53:14yeah i mean and i know there's somebody
0:53:15out there listens to the show was like
0:53:17all I do is email and web surfing and I
0:53:18run up against the two gigabyte thing
0:53:20every night I mean you can do it but it
0:53:23really takes I think streaming video to
0:53:25really kind of rack up against that
0:53:27ya see against Marco easy to deal with
0:53:30samar kosher market host at WC last
0:53:32weekend was using his ipad 3g or LTE
0:53:35instead of the hotel Wi-Fi and left here
0:53:38he left his mac tethered overnight unit
0:53:41and it downloaded the ad men season for
0:53:43now which is like complete two gigabytes
0:53:46so you can it be blue is holding
0:53:49downloading it and the end that the
0:53:51download didn't complete it back
0:53:53I don't get it Oh pastor alex well you
0:53:59have anything else i have one job but
0:54:01it's on your list the passbook ideas on
0:54:05my list so i think that's kind of the
0:54:07sleeper hit actually you know and it's
0:54:14funny like as and when you launch the
0:54:18app now there's there's nothing in it
0:54:20does one screen and it just says
0:54:22password is for the stuff in your pocket
0:54:24and it's got like tickets and all that
0:54:26stuff but there's a big infrastructure
0:54:30behind it and and I think telling me
0:54:35they sort of be released a new API that
0:54:38would allow apps to sort of inspect only
0:54:42their own passes and as it is a bunch of
0:54:46back and stuff so that you can send out
0:54:49passes create new ones and update once
0:54:51it to somebody is on the phone i think
0:54:54it's interesting for iOS 6 and but i
0:54:56think it's going to be really big in
0:54:57ios7 yeah it's
0:55:00it's aight i totally agree i really
0:55:02think that it's and I'd better sometimes
0:55:04i'm wrong about these things like when I
0:55:05think that this is a sleeper hit or like
0:55:08I call it like an iceberg feature where
0:55:10you only see this little bit at the top
0:55:11but the implications underneath are huge
0:55:15yeah absolutely but i really do think
0:55:17that I I think passbook is going to be a
0:55:18big deal and I think long term it's
0:55:20going to be on an awful lot of iphone
0:55:22users first screen right because one of
0:55:27them is that one of the things that I
0:55:29really thought I I just keep thinking
0:55:30about that i really think forestall was
0:55:32exactly right in his pitching the
0:55:34keynote that half the problem with these
0:55:37apps that do the barcode scanning now is
0:55:40that you're never going to have them on
0:55:41your first or second screen you know
0:55:42like your United you know because they
0:55:44mean it and some people fly the same
0:55:46airline every time and I you knowed i
0:55:48fly same handful of airlines but it's
0:55:49like you know who knows if you're you
0:55:52know continental airlines app where the
0:55:53hell is it I don't know and it's you
0:55:56know it's the worst thing is you're up
0:55:58there at the front of the line and
0:55:59you're like page and up to screen aid of
0:56:01your homescreen looking for the thing on
0:56:03because they do some really clever i
0:56:07don't even know how much as I a I guess
0:56:09we can talk about it but I they're doing
0:56:10some clever stuff though with passbook
0:56:12we're based on your location it will
0:56:14know like at right is that you open past
0:56:18look when you're in a starbucks it's it
0:56:20knows you're in a starbucks and our
0:56:22guess is you're in a starbucks at the
0:56:23very least and there's your starbucks
0:56:26you don't even have to do not only do
0:56:27you not have to look around for a
0:56:28Starbucks app when you open passbook if
0:56:31it knows you're in a starbucks it you
0:56:32don't have to look for your starbucks
0:56:34pass you don't even need to open bass
0:56:36work it's raining home screen
0:56:38I'll write that exactly right and just
0:56:40hang on and it sits there like a
0:56:41notification in starbucks you swipe it
0:56:44up cuz you're on starbucks card like it
0:56:46doesn't even launch the app it just
0:56:48comes up with the home screen and you
0:56:49can just scan it might then write one of
0:56:52the interesting things about passbook is
0:56:54that it can work in coordination with a
0:56:57nap
0:56:58yes then and do other things and you can
0:57:01use the app to do things like make
0:57:02changes like you know the example that
0:57:06they gave would be like if it was a
0:57:08airline then you wanted to change your
0:57:10seat you could you need an app for that
0:57:13I got up passbook what they call the
0:57:16cards are they passes i'll pass itself
0:57:19doesn't have code it's just information
0:57:21so if you want to change stuff you've
0:57:22got to have a nap but for a lot of cases
0:57:25you don't even need a nap
0:57:27there's a lot of situations where we're
0:57:29developers or stores or you know
0:57:33services can get support passbook and it
0:57:37takes some code on there some server
0:57:39code on their side obviously to do the
0:57:41interaction but in terms of like what's
0:57:42running on the phone all they have to do
0:57:44is support passbook and it doesn't even
0:57:45require a nap right i really think that
0:57:49it's interesting and it it it's a it's a
0:57:54very humble way to get started with this
0:57:57where it's not like this boil the ocean
0:57:59approach that I think I google has taken
0:58:01with my google wallet where it's like
0:58:03we're going to support this NFC stuff
0:58:05and it in theory works everywhere and
0:58:08practice works know where are always
0:58:11know where well i mean i think it's an
0:58:12approach where they're not relying on
0:58:15the on the endpoint to have any specific
0:58:19technology right right
0:58:21they're just going to support what's
0:58:23what people already do and build up in
0:58:25there like so one interesting thing is
0:58:27I'm let's say you've got your starbucks
0:58:29card
0:58:30you know you could you could probably
0:58:35more apple could probably work out a way
0:58:38that they could charge up your starbucks
0:58:40card from your itunes account I I
0:58:43thought about that too the only thing
0:58:45about that is that when you win you any
0:58:47of your money goes through your itunes
0:58:49account apple takes thirty percent and I
0:58:51so I don't see how that would work well
0:58:53I mean they could work out a deal with
0:58:55starbucks and they take less than thirty
0:58:57percent right like you know it right
0:58:59like maybe for the passbook stuff
0:59:00they'll do it in a way that and and I
0:59:03almost feel like they have to if there
0:59:04and I think long-term everybody in other
0:59:06been rumors about Apple getting in the
0:59:08NFC and payments and stuff like that
0:59:09that there's no for as much as they've
0:59:14stuck to their guns across the board
0:59:16music video apps books with this 7030
0:59:227030 in-app purchases 7030 everything
0:59:25when money goes through
0:59:26the store at 70 30 maybe the way that
0:59:29they do it is that they don't really
0:59:31it's not called going through this store
0:59:32right like all the stuff that goes
0:59:34through this store is 70 30 but the
0:59:37payment processing is is not that it's
0:59:40just hooked up your account so it goes
0:59:42through the same credit card you've got
0:59:43hooked up right but I you know they
0:59:46would I I they could really you know
0:59:48they could undercut everybody on that I
0:59:50mean they could just charged with it you
0:59:52know just to break even thing and just
0:59:54have it as a reason to have an iphone
0:59:55right i think there's they've had a lot
0:59:59of credit cards
0:59:59of credit cards
1:00:00right and then they get you stuff to
1:00:02they could even do it you can do it
1:00:03wouldn't even just be charging up your
1:00:04starbucks card you could do it like you
1:00:07know if you're with the airline thing
1:00:09where you've got a coach seat and you go
1:00:12do your thing and you can maybe get a
1:00:13notification that there's an upgrade
1:00:15available you know the business class or
1:00:18or first class or something like that
1:00:19and you just do it in the app and it
1:00:21goes through your iTunes Store thing you
1:00:24don't even have to sit there and follow
1:00:25around with credit cards or something
1:00:27like that
1:00:27yeah yeah exactly like I think we've got
1:00:30a good pitch for businesses which is
1:00:31there's less friction alright and are
1:00:34you could you know you could even buy
1:00:37you know like when you have to buy your
1:00:39drink or a sandwich on the pond the
1:00:41flight you know you could just do it
1:00:42through the phone may not and again you
1:00:44may not even have to take your phone out
1:00:45of your pocket to have its camp right i
1:00:48think that i think the implications of
1:00:50passbook huge yeah i think so too and
1:00:52it's a really clever system
1:00:54I mean I guess we can't get into the
1:00:56details of how it works because that's
1:00:57clearly NDA but it's really really
1:00:59clever and so anybody out there who does
1:01:02if you've got an account and you're
1:01:04thinking about what WWDC sessions to
1:01:06watch i would highly recommend the
1:01:09passbook sessions because they're really
1:01:11interesting and I thought they were at
1:01:14you know all the sessions deputies here
1:01:16good but i thought those were really
1:01:17exceptionally well structured from my
1:01:21god had a gajal standpoint like that's
1:01:23just it just opens your mind how it
1:01:25works and it's a really clever system
1:01:28yeah it's very satisfying yeah so i'm
1:01:31not sure to be huge for ios6 but I think
1:01:33they're going to start making a lot of
1:01:36deals around this and we'll see what
1:01:37happens
1:01:37what else do you have anything else from
1:01:40WTC and I really think that in his new
1:01:44maps it whenever I don't know what to
1:01:48make about that i know people are saying
1:01:50that there's not as much detail on the
1:01:51maps i think the the lack of transit
1:01:57stuff
1:01:58I you know I link to a thing this week
1:01:59from somebody saying that you know what
1:02:01that's actually a good idea because
1:02:02because the transit stuff is all over
1:02:05the map not a little bit
1:02:07no cleaning ended yeah I but like in
1:02:10Europe there's some places where that
1:02:12the transit information
1:02:13is owned by private companies and they
1:02:14don't want google having it for free and
1:02:16they're like blogging them but on the
1:02:20other hand I i wrote a very brief piece
1:02:23you know a little link thing early this
1:02:25morning its bottom line notes from users
1:02:27users don't care about that stuff like
1:02:28all users are going to know is that if
1:02:29they used to rely on the transit info in
1:02:31the Maps app and it's gone that's that's
1:02:33a downgrade right so I mean it's you
1:02:36know I gotta say that that's points off
1:02:39for ios6 i mean i don't care i mean
1:02:41maybe a long-term it does work out
1:02:43better but in the short term people are
1:02:45going to notice and it's it's like a
1:02:47record of it
1:02:48well I think the question is would you
1:02:49rather have flyover or know what bus
1:02:52line to take right if I was really cool
1:02:55i also had thanks flyover is why i like
1:02:58it way better than Street View in Google
1:03:00Street feel and I guess the argument for
1:03:03street view is that cool but it's not as
1:03:05useful street you have literally used to
1:03:07like I know this building here this
1:03:09restaurant and I know they've got their
1:03:11phone number on the window right and I'm
1:03:14literally used to defeat for you to go
1:03:16and find it i guess that's the argument
1:03:17is that street view is from the
1:03:19perspective of you on the sidewalk right
1:03:21it's like I walk down the street and
1:03:23know where that thing is and i'm trying
1:03:24to remember you know you can go and see
1:03:26it and flowers incredibly cool
1:03:31technology i gotta say ah yeah very cool
1:03:37let me take it before we talk about the
1:03:39rest of the stuff is a good good time to
1:03:40do the second sponsor right in our
1:03:42second sponsor is a new app for the iPad
1:03:46called vijay spelled v j-a-y from
1:03:50algorithm you may know them from their
1:03:53other app DJ which was like a record
1:03:57spinning app for the ipad i had very
1:04:01very acclaimed ever seen videos of
1:04:04people using an iPad or multiple iPads
1:04:06to sort of do I don't know what you call
1:04:11it but DJ's do is I'm sort of out of my
1:04:13league here because i'm not very musical
1:04:15your musical guy I know
1:04:20no well it's a terrible i like music I
1:04:23listen to dividing these well it's
1:04:25called yeah but
1:04:26here's what it is Vijay is real-time
1:04:29touch scratching for videos you mix
1:04:32videos and songs together and you can
1:04:35make mashups you can make home videos
1:04:37you can do it to entertain people on but
1:04:40it's more than just clips edited
1:04:41together it's it's a performance right
1:04:44it's it's like being a DJ and mixing
1:04:46music live except with music and video
1:04:49so it's not just a video it's not a
1:04:51video editor / say to way to do blend
1:04:54two videos together with music live like
1:04:58a performance like you sit there and
1:05:00play with it and you can record them you
1:05:03can output them over hdmi and airplay
1:05:05with real-time output right over airplay
1:05:08so like somebody who was entertaining a
1:05:10crowd like an actual DJ or VJ I got a
1:05:14party you would have this ipad app in
1:05:16front of them and could sit here and
1:05:18blend these things and have it like
1:05:19projected on a big screen behind them
1:05:21it's super impressive and and from user
1:05:24interface perspective it is everything
1:05:26is live there is no latency it's super
1:05:31smooth it works on the ipad 2 and the
1:05:33new ipad parentheses three did you play
1:05:37with it i sent you from ok I did I did
1:05:39it's very impressive it is super
1:05:41impressive it is the sort of thing where
1:05:43I myself i I don't I can't use it to the
1:05:46way that it could be used but i
1:05:47guarantee you that with this app there
1:05:49will be videos of people making these
1:05:51amazing things and mixing these things
1:05:53and people will be like I can't believe
1:05:55it and it fits right in with this
1:05:57resurgence in argument about whether the
1:06:01ipad is for creation or consumption at
1:06:03which is to me I cannot believe that
1:06:05we're still having this argument in 2012
1:06:07but this app vijay from algorithm is
1:06:10like ground zero step one of my god this
1:06:14thing can be used for creation like in a
1:06:15way and and the best thing about it is
1:06:17it's a perfect example of the sort of
1:06:19creation that you can do on the ipad
1:06:22that you couldn't do on a Mac because
1:06:25the Holy visual it and it's multi-touch
1:06:28it's two things at once so there's only
1:06:30one mouse on the Mac you can't you can't
1:06:33spend two things at once you can't twist
1:06:34two different things at the same time on
1:06:36the mac which is the entire point
1:06:38of Vijay that you're you're tweaking to
1:06:41songs at once or two videos at once at
1:06:43the same time I really nice UI
1:06:46skeuomorphic in a very very appropriate
1:06:49way where it it's this you know it you
1:06:53launch the app and it makes it feel like
1:06:54your ipad is like a dedicated device
1:06:56meant from video mixing really really
1:06:59cool app very well done regular price
1:07:041999 deja vu right now fifty percent off
1:07:09intro pricing it's only 999 on the app
1:07:12store crazy you can find out more at
1:07:16algorithm a lgor i ddim dot-com I or you
1:07:23can just google vjv jaay and look it up
1:07:26there
1:07:26999 on the App Store amazingly creative
1:07:29app anybody who has any kind of interest
1:07:31in music and stuff like that go get it
1:07:33so great app beautiful so you had some
1:07:36good sponsors this week
1:07:38terrific sponsors like you so I'll tell
1:07:41said it and I was on a phone
1:07:44conversation with the algorithm guys
1:07:46over about DJ they were having some
1:07:48weird coronation issue and and Michael
1:07:52Simmons the flexibility i actually
1:07:54introduced me to them and we so we had a
1:07:56little bit of a chat to work out what's
1:07:58going on
1:07:59they are really really smart guys very
1:08:01nice their apps are amazing i go buy it
1:08:07please this is so I'm talking about the
1:08:09guy english is the guy that you talk to
1:08:11when you're having like the core
1:08:12animation problem that's a guy like do
1:08:15private calls like this everyday or
1:08:16somebody with an amazing app but they're
1:08:19running up a thing where they've they're
1:08:20stuck at 54 frames per second and they
1:08:22know that that stinks because anything
1:08:24under 60 is kind of janky and then and
1:08:27then they call you and then you tell
1:08:28them what's wrong and Elvis and they're
1:08:29running it like 6 25 frames per second
1:08:31to be honest I don't know what I told
1:08:33him help but you don't know it just you
1:08:37know we chatted about what was going on
1:08:39I don't know i don't want to take any
1:08:40credit I don't know actually did help
1:08:41them but we chatted in it and they're
1:08:44very very smart guys alright very smart
1:08:47guys great sponsors thank you both
1:08:50so the other big news of the week is
1:08:53from Microsoft you and I sort of where
1:09:00we going where we weren't watching
1:09:01because I didn't do the video live we're
1:09:03following the live blog coverage right
1:09:06live and then chatting to each other on
1:09:08the back channel and and let me just say
1:09:12this here's the thing i was thinking
1:09:13this is me yesterday was yesterday
1:09:15here's what i was saying i got nervous
1:09:16about having you on the show because one
1:09:20thing everybody always wanted people say
1:09:21to get somebody on the show is going to
1:09:23do is gonna is gonna fight back and
1:09:25going to tell you tell you what the
1:09:26hell's wrong with you and that's why I
1:09:27thought all right I'm gonna do I'm gonna
1:09:29get guy guys guys guys not gonna let me
1:09:31slide this is one thing I think I I mean
1:09:34I haven't written anything good in weeks
1:09:37and guys going to call me out on that
1:09:38he's going to say what are you doing you
1:09:40haven't got so I thought I gotta write
1:09:42something good I got and I gotta write
1:09:44something so the guy can't tell me that
1:09:46i've been slacking off and so here's
1:09:48what it is i went back to our i am and i
1:09:49stole all of your ideas all of your
1:09:52comments from the surface event and then
1:09:55turn them into a little article for
1:09:56daring fireball well how to really great
1:09:59article I don't know them ideas I mean
1:10:02whatever i'm not particularly and get
1:10:05jealous about where ideas come from and
1:10:07I wouldn't like he said that to me on
1:10:09twitter and i can add didn't feel it was
1:10:10me and that was more of us just chatting
1:10:12but I do you know i'll give you credit
1:10:14and I stole the the fact that they
1:10:16couldn't date they clearly couldn't make
1:10:18enough decisions that was for ya
1:10:21oh thank you and ya know I think they I
1:10:27think they made good decisions and but
1:10:29they didn't make great decisions they
1:10:30made both of those products are
1:10:32interesting by themselves right I one
1:10:35less so I like that the Intel one looks
1:10:37kind of garbage to me personally but I
1:10:40could see that being a product that they
1:10:41would want to shit to do both of them is
1:10:44crazy i don't understand what the hell
1:10:47they're thinking well or wide why
1:10:50announce both of them at the same time
1:10:52why not just announced the arm one and
1:10:55make it all about that here's a here's
1:10:57the the argument is that they've
1:10:58announced an arm-based tablet and
1:11:03an intel-based tablet that's thicker and
1:11:07light so it's sort of like the arm-based
1:11:08one is vaguely and I'm roughly
1:11:10equivalent to like an iPad and the art
1:11:12and the intel based one is roughly
1:11:14equivalent to like a macbook air but
1:11:16with a touch string and then they also
1:11:18introduced this very clever capacitive i
1:11:21guess i gotta smart cover magnetically
1:11:24attached but that has a keyboard on it
1:11:26and very good that part that super
1:11:29clever about it isn't just the idea of
1:11:31hey why not you know why not have the
1:11:33underside of the cover be a keyboard and
1:11:37it attaches magnetically like Apple
1:11:39smart covers but the thing that's really
1:11:40clever is that it draws power over that
1:11:43magnetic connection so that the keyboard
1:11:45cover doesn't itself need a battery so
1:11:47like if you were gonna make I'm sure
1:11:48after they did that there's a probably
1:11:51gonna be like 20 Kickstarter campaigns
1:11:53this week from people to make something
1:11:55like that for the ipad but if you did it
1:11:57for the ipad it would have to be a
1:11:58bluetooth thing and that means that it
1:12:00would draw it would need like a battery
1:12:02and I don't know that they could even be
1:12:03as thin as as the microsoft one but then
1:12:05like 20 minutes later in in the event
1:12:08then they come out with another cover
1:12:09that has a keyboard that actually has
1:12:11physical moving Keys I don't get it so
1:12:15they in other words the message instead
1:12:16of the message being here it is
1:12:19we're making our own tablet boom this is
1:12:22it and we've got this amazing cover here
1:12:26it is
1:12:27they've got this mixed-up story of
1:12:29here's a tablet and its arm and it's
1:12:32thinner and lighter and cooler and
1:12:35here's this water keyboard
1:12:36oh but here's this other tablet that
1:12:38looks the same from the front and then
1:12:40you turn it sideways and it's real thick
1:12:41and has vents but it runs photoshop and
1:12:46anything from windows so you know it is
1:12:48a reasonable it's not a crazy trade-off
1:12:50there's actually reason somebody might
1:12:52want to do it
1:12:53oh and here's this other keyboard cover
1:12:55and they're not we don't know when
1:12:56they're shipping and what the prices are
1:12:57and the other one is going to ship at
1:12:59least three months after the other one
1:13:01that we don't know when it's gonna show
1:13:02and it had to be the whole thing just
1:13:03sort of falls apart at that point
1:13:05yeah well i mean i think the thing is
1:13:07that they're chasing customer affection
1:13:11rather than started selling em a product
1:13:15you know I mean there
1:13:16they're nervous they don't know which
1:13:19one to do i think one could probably
1:13:21came up with the arm one and then
1:13:24somebody upstairs was like no we gotta
1:13:26have this until one right and they just
1:13:28did both and I don't think they I want
1:13:31one thing that struck me about the event
1:13:33was that they did indeed this is an idea
1:13:35that you didn't steal so okay I get to
1:13:3810 smart they didn't sell their choices
1:13:46that they made day and they say
1:13:48specifically called out how hard it was
1:13:51to make choices right found interesting
1:13:54that I think it's just the wrong thing
1:13:58to do but basically you make your
1:14:00choices you come up with the product and
1:14:02any sell it
1:14:03this is it we believe it what did what
1:14:06they specifically call out in the event
1:14:08is like man we had a lot of hard choices
1:14:09to make
1:14:10but we think these are great right and
1:14:12yet you've got a spectrum of stuff which
1:14:14clearly means that you don't you know
1:14:16you didn't put all the wood behind one
1:14:18arrow you didn't you didn't pick
1:14:19something to be great
1:14:20perfect turn of phrase right they didn't
1:14:24put all other wood behind one arrow
1:14:26which i think is a shame because it be
1:14:29the arm one is interesting or or if they
1:14:32did maybe from their perspective they
1:14:34did and that the they're thinking of it
1:14:36from the perspective of we're going to
1:14:39start making pc hardware in general
1:14:41which is a tremendous fundamental shift
1:14:44for the company and I know people have
1:14:45said regarding my article that's not
1:14:47that Microsoft has never gotten hardware
1:14:49before they make the xbox they've made
1:14:51all sorts of peripherals before they
1:14:53made the zunes but yes so they say
1:14:56they've made hardware before but the one
1:14:58it's almost like a religious line that
1:15:00they've never crossed as they've never
1:15:02made pc hardware before right that's I
1:15:04mean the zune is one thing where you
1:15:08enter at the hardware market where your
1:15:10partners are right you know but that's
1:15:13not their key market right this is the
1:15:15bread-and-butter the foundation of the
1:15:17entire microsoft Empire is this notion
1:15:20of we make a PC operating system and
1:15:24apps for that operating system office
1:15:28primarily from a financial standpoint
1:15:29but you know all sorts of other stuff
1:15:31they make the airplane simulator and you
1:15:36guys
1:15:36dell HP sony toshiba samsung you guys
1:15:42make the hardware you guys make the
1:15:45hardware we do the software and it's a
1:15:48very crystal in the pc industry and that
1:15:50you know that's where all of the money's
1:15:53coming from and now they've so i think
1:15:55from their perspective that they've put
1:15:56all their wood behind the arrow ok now
1:15:58we're making hardware to write whereas
1:16:01from the messaging standpoint that's
1:16:03interesting the microsoft I mean that is
1:16:05very interesting to Microsoft but from a
1:16:08consumer standpoint they don't really
1:16:10care you know like people just want to
1:16:12buy an ice machine and have it work
1:16:14yeah centric focused it's more like and
1:16:17you know corporate broadcaster and they
1:16:19so they didn't what I think was lacking
1:16:21from the event was a story a narrative
1:16:24about why why you'd want this and what
1:16:27you would do with it right and what the
1:16:29different you know and and because they
1:16:31didn't have a story at all it means that
1:16:33they didn't even come first you need the
1:16:35story and then you've got to figure out
1:16:37a way in that story to differentiate
1:16:40between the two devices the Intel one in
1:16:43the arm one but because i didn't have a
1:16:44story period
1:16:46it's a real i think miss mash messaging
1:16:50whys of why there's two of them and what
1:16:52the differences are well I mean they
1:16:54should give him the whole event that
1:16:55panels gay
1:16:56yeah i thought so too i really i thought
1:16:58he was gonna get it was comfortable and
1:16:59I realized that what he was talking
1:17:01about was a little bit the
1:17:03self-referential where he was talking
1:17:05about the design and on the design
1:17:08process but his enthusiasm was genuine
1:17:10and he actually was going to seem
1:17:12comfortable up there
1:17:13yeah like I cracked a joke on Twitter
1:17:15during the event occurred a couple jokes
1:17:18but one of the jokes I've number one no
1:17:20I just want to even though i crack jokes
1:17:21that doesn't mean I don't like the thing
1:17:22i'm a color me very intrigued by the
1:17:25whole thing and I think it's the same
1:17:26thing is true for you too right yeah
1:17:28very much so I i mean i think this thing
1:17:30could be i think this is the whole I i
1:17:33am the thing i'm skeptical about is
1:17:35windows 8 on regular pcs I think better
1:17:38on regular pcs I
1:17:39I really from what I've seen and played
1:17:41with it i think it's i think it's wrong
1:17:43i think metro on a touchscreen device is
1:17:48really really interesting and especially
1:17:50on a bigger one that's bigger than a
1:17:52phone not like in some sense i do think
1:17:55that iOS is a little bit like a phone OS
1:17:58that runs on a tablet whereas I think
1:18:00that the metro you user interface really
1:18:02feels and it seems like it's natural for
1:18:04like a nine inch tablet 10-inch tablet
1:18:07color me very interested but you know so
1:18:10the jokes are just me you know cracking
1:18:12jokes but my job one of my jokes was
1:18:14that the because the Intel one time with
1:18:17you
1:18:17the Intel one to me seems janky because
1:18:19it's thick and has vented as a fan
1:18:22it's a serious magnetic pin- them i like
1:18:27I honestly i'm a i'm a fan of the pan
1:18:29input idea i think it's a great idea
1:18:31magnetizing it to you think now don't do
1:18:33that right
1:18:34this is not the all of the differences
1:18:37between their arm one any Intel 12 me
1:18:40are advertisements for the arm one
1:18:42yes so I cracked a joke that the I maybe
1:18:47i'll get the deep the things wrong that
1:18:49I said it's it's thicker and has a fan
1:18:51and it has a cassette tape deck because
1:18:54it just seems like it's you know it's
1:18:56it's old technology you know it'sit's
1:18:59and it's a lot to me it's also a lot
1:19:01like the tablet pcs that Microsoft's
1:19:05been trying to sell for for 15 years
1:19:08right right you know what you know they
1:19:09should have done just occurred to me
1:19:10you're right it's old its old attack
1:19:12what they should have done is
1:19:13introducing the Intel one first
1:19:15hmm yeah we got his we got the United
1:19:19States is not the old windows it's got
1:19:20also for its a very comfortable it's
1:19:22like a macbook air with touchscreen got
1:19:24the clicky clicky keyboard great how do
1:19:26you like that
1:19:27nice pretty excited guess what here's an
1:19:30arm 14 metro very fat like it's got
1:19:33advanced your keyboard
1:19:34they didn't order it really did think
1:19:38about the order that Apple did the
1:19:4015-inch macbook pros last week right
1:19:42first the old one that's not exciting it
1:19:45i mean and and I say not exciting it
1:19:48actually is that the new the new old
1:19:5015-inch
1:19:51book pros are actually very nice
1:19:53upgrades I mean knows it's like cutting
1:19:55edge intel chipsets it's a really nice
1:19:57performance upgrade but they did those
1:19:59first but I mean still where we were all
1:20:01calling them the new old ones right yeah
1:20:04you're exactly right thing about the way
1:20:05Apple did the macbook pros i completely
1:20:07agree to the one that's that's older
1:20:09tech first and do the skating to where
1:20:12the puck is going next which is arm
1:20:14which is thinner which is no vents no
1:20:18fan no need for that runs cool not know
1:20:21legacy apps
1:20:23yeah yeah they totally didn't order see
1:20:26well and I think that's telling because
1:20:28i think that they think they probably
1:20:29did them in the right order and where
1:20:31the one that can't on the desktop
1:20:33Windows is the lesser product to them so
1:20:38they there there big reveal was I guess
1:20:40why you can go on desktops up on this
1:20:41and I think that is you know telling
1:20:45about the company i'm also curious about
1:20:52the timing of the event and like I had
1:20:54you know who you'll never know because
1:20:56you know what if you're going to
1:20:57pre-announce something it when is the
1:20:59right time to pronounce it and you know
1:21:01eivol you know Apple pre-announced is
1:21:05almost nothing they tend to announce
1:21:07stuff when it's ready or like ready next
1:21:08week but for example they pronounce the
1:21:13iphone by six months and i think there's
1:21:16a couple special reason right because
1:21:18they weren't cannibalizing their own
1:21:19sales and they had to start doing
1:21:22federal mcc mcc stuff that it was going
1:21:26to leak anyway so this was a way to to
1:21:28control the reveal
1:21:29but the big thing is they weren't
1:21:31cannibalizing their own sales and so
1:21:33Microsoft is in a very similar position
1:21:35with this where it's really i don't
1:21:38think it's going to stop sales of
1:21:40existing windows notebooks and PCs but
1:21:44it might maybe a little for some buyers
1:21:47slow sales of ipads or make people wait
1:21:50a little bit you know mean it's I don't
1:21:53think it would be if if it works if it
1:21:55catches on and the idea of we should
1:21:58wait for the surface at least to see it
1:22:00if there's any merit to it it's only
1:22:02going to hurt out
1:22:03all or and or android tablet makers it's
1:22:07not gonna hurt anybody who's already
1:22:08using windows
1:22:10yeah right i don't think that they risk
1:22:11cannibalizing anything of their own
1:22:13I don't think they thought it through
1:22:15that much time in your piece supposing
1:22:16that they're all right good got a plan
1:22:18but I also think well I think it's a lot
1:22:21about the fact that at some point once
1:22:23they get this thing the wheels running
1:22:24on this thing production-wise they can't
1:22:26keep it secret
1:22:27maybe those I mean those things to seem
1:22:31to barely work great
1:22:33could the journalist didn't get to play
1:22:35with the keyboards everything was all
1:22:36screwed up right one of them frozen on
1:22:38stage it's just bad and like it was the
1:22:43worst thing about it is that he didn't
1:22:45even add well no it's not you know stuff
1:22:47went wrong for Steve at times but if you
1:22:50know any laughter handle it well right
1:22:52sort of like Johnny Carson with a bomb
1:22:55joke right
1:22:56yeah you just gotta roll with it was
1:22:58like excuse me and give me a minute
1:23:00Campbell's over to like the spare line
1:23:03okay yeah he he almost the way he
1:23:06rambled over there it
1:23:08this is steven sinofsky it almost looked
1:23:09as though he was just gonna run off the
1:23:11stage and not come back like he was just
1:23:13here I would if I would've just left and
1:23:16just throwing thing again and just left
1:23:19but so I so everything we know about
1:23:23this event is it was very last minute
1:23:24right they got invites went out during
1:23:26the week of WC yeah and people didn't
1:23:30know where to go now wants to come to LA
1:23:32like it seems to me that I don't know if
1:23:37this is I have no idea but apparently
1:23:43google is going to be announcing like a
1:23:44nexus tablet
1:23:46alright next week at i/o and it seems to
1:23:49me that maybe Microsoft knows that I got
1:23:52it I finally figured it out and that
1:23:55they want to frame any i/o announcements
1:23:57through the lens that they're just
1:24:02presented alright hastily um you know
1:24:09maybe not maybe you know not in the tech
1:24:11press necessarily but in the mainstream
1:24:12dress you know that whatever is
1:24:15announced at i/o
1:24:17is going to be related to what
1:24:20Microsoft's just said yeah I think so
1:24:24too and and in terms of being arranged
1:24:27at the last minute it does seem like the
1:24:28invitations and etc at least the
1:24:31invitations went out after the WWDC
1:24:33keynote right and so I I can only guess
1:24:37that they were like let's see if apple
1:24:39announces anything relevant which they
1:24:42didn't but i think that there's and who
1:24:46knows maybe Microsoft has better Intel
1:24:48then we do that you know maybe they even
1:24:50know more about what Google's going to
1:24:51announce but it you know the consensus
1:24:53is certainly that google is going to
1:24:55announce something that's pretty much
1:24:56along the same lines google-branded
1:24:57tablet right I'm and I think they wanted
1:25:02to get in front of that
1:25:03yeah I mean there's any press about the
1:25:06google cabinet is going to be pressed
1:25:07for them they're all right it's is what
1:25:10google did with 3d maps or try to do I
1:25:12mean personally don't think it's a great
1:25:14move right i think it looks defensive
1:25:17exactly but it is it's the common thing
1:25:20in google just did with the maps all
1:25:22right I guess we're running short on
1:25:26time here but we have a few more things
1:25:27I wanted to talk to you about stuff that
1:25:29you're working on you run a conference
1:25:32in Montreal started last year singleton
1:25:35get Mac to indymac or indeed i say Mac
1:25:38but in the Apple Developer Conference
1:25:40right we've had with the loop and how
1:25:43Scott Morrison and a lot of help from a
1:25:46tree Muller where it was it was
1:25:48fantastic i was there last year and it
1:25:50was a terrific time people are I think
1:25:52much did you get a lot of people asking
1:25:55at WTC about singleton 20 yeah yeah but
1:25:57he's asking when it's going on sale and
1:25:59whatnot it's going to be I but i think
1:26:01it's going to be a WWDC situation now
1:26:04where it's like you're going to put it
1:26:05on sale and the damn thing is going to
1:26:06sell out
1:26:07yeah I mean that happened last year like
1:26:09I had to ask you not to actually mention
1:26:11it on verifiable last year because it
1:26:13went pretty quick then it's ok that is
1:26:16rare it is actually very rare that
1:26:18people the people asked me not to link
1:26:20to sell me
1:26:21I'm gonna put this thing on sale don't
1:26:24want to do it aren't there in viral
1:26:25because i think that the people who read
1:26:28recite are really going to jump all over
1:26:29it right everybody is going to have a
1:26:33bigger venue
1:26:34yeah a little bit bigger and better 220
1:26:37people compared to the sort of 75 80
1:26:40that we had last time very small crab
1:26:42but i think a small confiscated so the
1:26:46value is you know I think the speaker's
1:26:48being a lot of value but I think in a
1:26:52way the greater value is having smoked
1:26:54out meeting everybody and talking about
1:26:56this because had to say I'm always
1:27:00interested to like sometimes when people
1:27:05talk to me about daring fireball
1:27:07sponsorships or the talk so sponsorships
1:27:09and i'll ask well you know what kind of
1:27:12results can i expect and I often i don't
1:27:15really know i mean i-i don't measure
1:27:16stuff like that like when I have links
1:27:19to your site
1:27:20it just goes right to you there's no
1:27:21click tracker and even if I did have a
1:27:23cliq tracker who knows what that means
1:27:25and who knows whether you can even trust
1:27:26it or whatever and and whether one thing
1:27:28goes awry i always say the bottom line
1:27:30is you know I think the most telling
1:27:32thing is how many repeat sponsors there
1:27:34are and there's a lot and that means
1:27:36that they came back and they were happy
1:27:37and so when I you know you're doing a
1:27:39conference because I've often thought
1:27:40maybe you know maybe I should try to put
1:27:43a conference together
1:27:44the interesting thing to me wasn't
1:27:45whether you did the first one it was
1:27:46whether you'd want to do a second one
1:27:48right and you're dead
1:27:50yeah we headed it was a big success we
1:27:53are not financially actually just it
1:27:56makes even to it's not a this is not a
1:27:58business for us it's just something that
1:28:00we wanted to do and we had it's like a
1:28:04really great time we had a great
1:28:06speakers great turnout and you know we
1:28:08want to do it again about to happen up
1:28:09and try it out again and because i think
1:28:12it's actually we're not focused the same
1:28:17way there's a lot of indie conferences a
1:28:18lot of really good ones but we're not
1:28:19really focused on the same kind of thing
1:28:21right
1:28:22we aim to sort of be more meta level it
1:28:26will last year was about
1:28:31maybe we tend to pick themes was going
1:28:35to but the idea is that we're gonna pick
1:28:37themes and last year's basically a the
1:28:41team was that we're at it we were at an
1:28:43inflection point that the mac was
1:28:44clearly going away of iOS in terms of
1:28:47the mac app store sandboxing and a lot
1:28:51of indie developers the way that they
1:28:53run their businesses was going to change
1:28:54so we thought to be valuable to get a
1:28:58bunch of people together and sort of
1:29:00discuss that discuss where things were
1:29:01going and and how people can adapt to
1:29:04the change and i think that work well
1:29:06this year and the team is going to be
1:29:09about girls and scaling and then the
1:29:12process behind that because I think as
1:29:18smaller developers or you know basically
1:29:22people in the industry we're all getting
1:29:25a lot more customers or in your case a
1:29:27lot more meters it then we used to say
1:29:29you know five years ago and how do we
1:29:33handle that like what does that mean for
1:29:36our businesses and our our software and
1:29:40the way that we approach that the market
1:29:42and our customers a good theme like I
1:29:45said just talking to some people as we
1:29:47get WTC there's definitely some really
1:29:50really small shops one-man shows two men
1:29:53partnerships that that have more
1:29:56customers then I I don't know ever
1:30:00before I mean I guess they're with their
1:30:02websites that could do it now the web
1:30:04sort of enabled that but with these apps
1:30:06there's people who have more customers
1:30:07than then it's fashionable for a
1:30:09one-person shop right to do and you know
1:30:13I don't know the you know it's a good
1:30:14topic because I just don't know that
1:30:16we're hooked up evolutionarily that to
1:30:18deal with that sort of scale adding like
1:30:21an individual level like if you ran at
1:30:23you know a bakery that you didn't
1:30:26doesn't make any sense that you have
1:30:2740,000 customers a week right just
1:30:30doesn't doesn't doesn't work well with
1:30:33apps it works you can do it well yeah
1:30:35there's still challenges what load goes
1:30:37way up the ramp and add edges i think
1:30:43its new
1:30:43interesting topic at I think it's what's
1:30:48happening this year last year I think
1:30:50was like big change this year things are
1:30:52going I don't know what will be next
1:30:53year but hopefully I'll identified or
1:30:56will identify it and come up with
1:30:58another game so the other thing that
1:31:00you've got cooking
1:31:01you've got a new company yeah aged in
1:31:04distilled yeah with the our good friend
1:31:07Chris parish Chris parish formerly of
1:31:09rogue sheep
1:31:10yep you formerly of rogue amoeba and we
1:31:14went rogue and get lucky it's not cheap
1:31:18jokes it will cut that out don't worry
1:31:20about the past and i will cut that right
1:31:21out scene and you guys I you're not
1:31:25ready to announce anything yet but you
1:31:27guys are working on the app and it's it
1:31:29is a mac app not an iOS app right and i
1:31:33think that's interesting because I feel
1:31:34like I certainly the mac you know Mac
1:31:38sales are up Mac it's never been better
1:31:40time to be a Mac Developer but I'd iOS
1:31:42is growth so is so explosive that it
1:31:46dwarfs the growth the mac has been
1:31:49undergoing and there's sort of an
1:31:51assumption i think that most people if
1:31:54they're going to start a new thing to do
1:31:55apps it's going to be iphone and ipad
1:31:57apps right so I supposed to be the
1:32:03answer that question is what we wanted
1:32:05to solve a problem and the problem
1:32:07existed or was best salt on the Mac hey
1:32:10I'm so what the app is basically it's
1:32:13you it's called Mac instead concise
1:32:18visual communication and it's for
1:32:20marking up images and working with
1:32:22designers and developers remotely so you
1:32:25can very quickly with a good novel input
1:32:27method make notes on imaging share it
1:32:31and given that that's the problem you're
1:32:37trying to solve it and it's a problem
1:32:38that I've been candid like monkey said
1:32:40when i was working with me but I was
1:32:42working remote and would often want to
1:32:44send notes back and forth on you know
1:32:46the work with that the widgets did the
1:32:49design and it was difficult when you and
1:32:52Chris work remote cause Christian is
1:32:53chris's in Seattle and I'm here in
1:32:56Montreal
1:32:57so you're both in Canada but on
1:32:59different different sides of the
1:33:00continent exactly exactly different
1:33:02costs so you guys probably use it you
1:33:08guys probably use it you know your dog
1:33:11fooding it
1:33:12yeah yeah we use it a lot and you know a
1:33:14couple other people use it to is it
1:33:18written already know
1:33:21well it will be easy right
1:33:26well I mean we just needed to exit did
1:33:29resources exactly
1:33:30yeah but it's like we were pretty close
1:33:33to shipping and so we want to ship same
1:33:36time as a mountain lion we're gonna
1:33:37we're gonna be my online only going to
1:33:40use all their goodies but yeah it's to
1:33:44answer the question about iOS and this
1:33:46was a problem that primarily existed on
1:33:49the on a mac in the designer is working
1:33:52in photoshop or developers working in
1:33:54Xcode and you want to quicklys you don't
1:33:58share things back and for it and it is
1:34:01an app that is very well suited to the
1:34:03ipad but the project the problem we want
1:34:08to solve manifest itself mainly on the
1:34:11mac right now I think that it fits
1:34:13I think that's one of the the messages
1:34:16apple has been trying to reiterate in
1:34:18the last year or so is more or less
1:34:20don't forget about the mac i think I
1:34:24can't believe that big dick from Apple's
1:34:27perspective that they can't believe that
1:34:29after six consecutive years of
1:34:31consecutive quarters 24 consecutive
1:34:34quarters were the mac has mac sales have
1:34:37grown faster than the pc industry at
1:34:38large 24 consecutive quarters they still
1:34:43have to remind people like hate the mac
1:34:45is that is awesome and it's at
1:34:48there's totally problems that can only
1:34:51be that are best solved on the mac
1:34:53ya think so I mean I think there's still
1:34:55a bit of a look at the gold rush
1:34:58mentality around iOS I were you know
1:35:03Chris and I think would rather figure
1:35:07out problem to solve and workout
1:35:09yesterday
1:35:10soft and in this case it's on a mac i
1:35:12also think I do think that there's an
1:35:14opportunity there to that that a new
1:35:16thing for the mac you might be able to
1:35:18gain attention quicker then stuff for
1:35:22the iOS because there's so much less of
1:35:25that gold rush mentality
1:35:27yeah and conservatively there's so many
1:35:28thousands of developers releasing iOS
1:35:33stuff that in the mac stuff can gain
1:35:35traction and I thought that was obvious
1:35:38to and I thought it was clear the
1:35:40keynote and it's occurred to me that I
1:35:41was a little bored during the mountain
1:35:43lion section because i'm almost all old
1:35:45stuff you know stuff we already knew but
1:35:47then somebody pointed out that it was
1:35:51you know most of the developers there
1:35:53they don't even think they don't know
1:35:54anything about mountain lions are not
1:35:55writing mac apps night it was all news
1:35:58to them that's why there was so much
1:35:59applause for like the stuff that was you
1:36:02know on apple's website for months
1:36:04yeah I think Syracuse was saying that on
1:36:06his show yeah it's exactly know what
1:36:08that's it that's where i got it i think
1:36:09you know what I think he told me that in
1:36:11person last week to it could be and yeah
1:36:16it like the mountain lion section of the
1:36:18keynote was really kind of boring i
1:36:20think maybe power nap was new
1:36:22yeah it's at all that's cool but I mean
1:36:25yeah between asleep it was power nap and
1:36:28dictation right where the two new things
1:36:30that were really on so it'sit's and I
1:36:32was not the most exciting
1:36:34no no no Richard developer technology
1:36:36they just work they do that thing right
1:36:38on you can tweet in it in a notification
1:36:40area now
1:36:41alright alright like nothing you know
1:36:43nothing groundbreaking but you know I
1:36:44think mountain lion is the it's what
1:36:48line should have been
1:36:49yeah basically you know it's the
1:36:51polished version i think ios6 is the
1:36:53same as a polished version of iOS 5 6 d
1:36:58we're not on a major leap year right now
1:37:01threat you know and and we gotta wrap
1:37:04this up but I did there's a story on
1:37:06Gizmodo today
1:37:07somebody wrote in the headline any more
1:37:08or less says it all is that Microsoft is
1:37:10now the most exciting company in tech
1:37:12and it's typical gizmodo linkbait where
1:37:17they're trying to take an obvious
1:37:19contrarian perspective on what I have to
1:37:22say that in in broad strokes
1:37:24I i actually agree with that and now and
1:37:27later in the article forget who wrote it
1:37:28on my command staff who cares its
1:37:30gizmodo but they date instead of saying
1:37:32exciting they said innovative isn't most
1:37:34innovative know there i think is more of
1:37:36an argument I think exciting is the word
1:37:38that actually is more apt which is that
1:37:42nobody was really expecting the surface
1:37:44thing this week they kept that secret
1:37:46and people were thinking the best people
1:37:48thought was maybe like a barnes and
1:37:49noble a joint you know smaller 6-inch
1:37:53type thing that was more like an
1:37:54e-reader this is way more ambitious than
1:37:57anything people that Gaston eight kept
1:37:59it under under really tight wraps like
1:38:02nobody knew it definitely whereas
1:38:04everything apple is announces more or
1:38:05less as expected you know I mean there's
1:38:08stuff like passbook that is news and
1:38:11wasn't really rumor expected but it's
1:38:14not major it's not exciting right
1:38:16I gets its Apple has become I think
1:38:18predictable in a very good way in a way
1:38:20that is good for the company and I think
1:38:24I iOS 6 and mountain lion reflect that
1:38:26like they're very I think they're very
1:38:28very you know good list of features
1:38:30year-over-year very impressive 12 months
1:38:33updates to what came before them but
1:38:35they're not exciting is not the word I
1:38:37would use to describe them
1:38:39well I mean I think Microsoft is
1:38:41interesting in that they're kind of
1:38:43screwed
1:38:44I'm apple is less interesting in that
1:38:48they're on top of their game and they're
1:38:50executing well alright it's not as
1:38:52exciting to be the guy in the lead the
1:38:54guy who's gonna like the race car driver
1:38:56who's making exciting loses the guy
1:38:58who's in second right yeah and they're
1:38:59not just in the lead to look like a head
1:39:01right and you know that there's it's not
1:39:04that they're not doing interesting stuff
1:39:05i'm sure it'll be a lot of cool stuff
1:39:07coming out but for this you know for the
1:39:12you know the observer microsoft is that
1:39:20offers more drama and say no
1:39:23exactly yeah and I think that's good i
1:39:26think it's actually what they need to do
1:39:27I did it makes me optimistic about their
1:39:29their prospects
1:39:31it would make me optimistic accept their
1:39:34products email screwed up
1:39:35yeah sure but at the very least I feel
1:39:38like that the very least though it shows
1:39:39that they're not in denial
1:39:42yes right what would be what would be
1:39:44sad would be if they had their head in
1:39:47the sand and we're just comes in their
1:39:49ears you know not I can't hear you doing
1:39:52the same thing that they have been doing
1:39:54you know and and just pretending that
1:39:57that the industry hasn't totally shifted
1:39:59and that Apple hasn't taken over the
1:40:01penthouse suite right exactly i mean i
1:40:04think one of the I think my favorite
1:40:07part of that surface pro Cee'd put up
1:40:10last night was the analysis of where the
1:40:13money's going right I think that's
1:40:15telling and I think you're probably
1:40:17right that there's notice that they're
1:40:19going to have to start caramelizing
1:40:20their partners to get back to the you
1:40:24know to the thicker profit margins right
1:40:25and it's okay i really think I think
1:40:27about it it's a classic microsoft move
1:40:29when classic microsoft move is ballsy
1:40:32and aggressive but and it is but it's
1:40:34not ballsy an aggressive against apple
1:40:36even though its competitive against
1:40:37apple i'm sure they hope it really is
1:40:39but it's really the that the ones that
1:40:41they're really like punching in the face
1:40:43are there pcom makers yeah they're going
1:40:46to take all the money yeah well that's
1:40:47the goal
1:40:48yeah guy thanks for being here to
1:40:51pleasure
1:40:51so coming soon aged in distilled and we
1:40:55even got that we even got a product name
1:40:56napkin looking forward to that you've
1:40:59got a blog kicking bear dot-com is it
1:41:02calm yet where you often
1:41:06well not often but occasionally right
1:41:08very very smart stuff
1:41:09thank you anything else that I should
1:41:12thank you for that
1:41:16do you drink i'm not sure i had lost
1:41:19track
1:41:20maybe yes let's say yes you'll be doing