The Talk Show

10: The Next Big Thing, with MG Siegler


00:00:00   it seems nuts though you're saying that

00:00:02   there's hotels that that have Wi-Fi

00:00:06   access that you can't do on microphone i

00:00:08   got an iphone right because the pop-up

00:00:11   thing because like there's a lot of them

00:00:12   out there that want you still to watch

00:00:14   some kind of you know either add or

00:00:16   click on something that requires a

00:00:19   pop-up and the iphone doesn't doesn't

00:00:22   like that too much and then not to

00:00:24   mention all the ones that are not just

00:00:26   tailored at all for a mobile experience

00:00:28   and so you know it's either a

00:00:31   combination of of quick zooming so you

00:00:34   can get it and hit a button before it

00:00:35   seems back out because it's just

00:00:37   completely not tailored I saw the i saw

00:00:39   one where you you had to go through how

00:00:43   to click to it terms and agreements

00:00:45   thing in a webview and I don't know how

00:00:49   they programmed it but it was a tiny

00:00:50   tiny little button and why don't know

00:00:53   how they did it but everytime you pinch

00:00:55   zoom down the iphone it would instantly

00:00:57   go back out to the full-size yeah yeah

00:01:00   I've seen the affectionate it's an

00:01:02   unsuitable webpage and so it leaves you

00:01:04   like the the tiniest touch target in the

00:01:08   history of times like this one pixel on

00:01:10   the ipad 2 3

00:01:11   if you have to get your touch centered

00:01:13   on it was crazy

00:01:14   yeah you really would need sandpaper to

00:01:16   whittle down your fingers at that point

00:01:18   so we were recording today is a tuesday

00:01:21   july 24 but we're not releasing the show

00:01:25   until tomorrow and that will be after

00:01:27   the mountain lion embargo so we will

00:01:29   talk we can talk now online

00:01:31   yes we can I because everybody we're all

00:01:35   signed up on the NDA and and everything

00:01:37   like that but before we get to that I

00:01:38   was thinking we should talk about

00:01:40   Marissa Mayer is a mayor Meyer and it's

00:01:44   uh it's Meyer might even though it's

00:01:46   spelled like mayor right so i have never

00:01:49   guessed one of those things where I

00:01:50   don't think I've ever talked about on

00:01:52   the show and if i don't talk about

00:01:53   somebody I don't really know how to

00:01:55   pronounce your name so it end job i

00:01:57   think i mean i think this is a good move

00:01:59   for yahoo i really i don't see how they

00:02:00   could possibly have gotten a better a

00:02:03   better CEO yeah it was totally out of

00:02:05   left field i mean it makes sense in

00:02:08   hindsight but no one was really thinking

00:02:09   that and i'm not sure exactly why but I

00:02:12   mean no one was

00:02:13   there's no rumor there was no whisper

00:02:14   about it you know nothing thinking that

00:02:16   this was a possibility i guess it's just

00:02:18   because yahoo has had such a string of

00:02:21   kind of either boring hires or like you

00:02:24   know kinda obvious things and and there

00:02:26   was reports that the ross levinsohn guy

00:02:28   who's the guy who was interim CEO was

00:02:31   just going to get the job and they were

00:02:32   kind of going through the motions you

00:02:33   know that are viewing a few that's what

00:02:35   i expected to I did you read I think

00:02:37   Steven leavey had a good post i think

00:02:40   was yesterday for Wired talking about

00:02:43   Marissa Mayer's role at Google where you

00:02:48   know obviously she was there for a long

00:02:49   time in her role evolved over the time

00:02:51   she was in charge search and then most

00:02:53   recently she was in charge of kind of

00:02:54   local stuff but she also started and ran

00:02:57   the program called a p.m. which is like

00:02:59   associate product manager I think no I

00:03:03   didn't I didn't see this

00:03:05   so basically she was running what is

00:03:08   effectively inside Google leader a

00:03:10   leadership training program and they had

00:03:13   a few hundred people go throughout go

00:03:15   through this under her through you know

00:03:17   the decade or so that she was running it

00:03:19   and these people include like Brett

00:03:20   Taylor who's the guy who eventually

00:03:22   would go on to become CTO facebook they

00:03:26   have a guy who's in charge of of chrome

00:03:28   not son dar try another guy who's just

00:03:33   under him who's a kind of spearheading

00:03:35   that program and he's the one who

00:03:36   actually took over the APM project but

00:03:39   anyway the long story short is that

00:03:40   Steven Levy writes this

00:03:42   pretty good post suggesting that marissa

00:03:45   meyer is even more uh better equipped to

00:03:48   handle this

00:03:50   this Yahoo CEO job because she really

00:03:52   trained the cream of the crop at Google

00:03:54   and now has these great relationships

00:03:56   they have all stated touch their

00:03:58   supposedly all very close they would go

00:03:59   on these long trips together in him and

00:04:01   for one of them leaving was embedded you

00:04:03   know odd somewhere in in Africa I think

00:04:06   or Eastern Europe and they would do

00:04:08   these once a year and they would all

00:04:09   form these tight bonds and they stay in

00:04:11   touch after all these years most of

00:04:12   those people obviously since left Google

00:04:14   but now of course mark meyer still has

00:04:18   those relationships that she could

00:04:19   potentially bring in if she could even

00:04:21   bring in you know five or six of those

00:04:23   people that's that's potentially huge

00:04:26   right there for you

00:04:26   who I have I've long had the sense that

00:04:30   not that she was on the outside google

00:04:32   but that and and other people have said

00:04:34   you know that she had like a glass

00:04:36   ceiling but like she wasn't going there

00:04:37   was no we're above that google that she

00:04:40   was going to get to move up to right

00:04:42   kind of get the sense that she hasn't

00:04:45   been as influential as she was in the

00:04:47   past

00:04:47   yeah it seems like the early days you

00:04:51   know she was whatever the tenth employee

00:04:52   or something like that and you know

00:04:54   everyone is probably doing a lot of work

00:04:56   back then and and through the time when

00:04:58   there were a hundred employees and she

00:05:00   was you know one of the senior people

00:05:01   and she was in charge of you know

00:05:03   there's the talk that she was in charge

00:05:04   of the design aesthetic and all that

00:05:06   kind of stuff and then is they slowly

00:05:07   transition from two more than a search

00:05:10   engine I think her role just kept

00:05:11   getting diminished and diminished and

00:05:13   then finally whenever it was a couple

00:05:16   years ago or something when they move

00:05:17   her often who knows if they moved her

00:05:19   off she asked to be moved off she's been

00:05:21   working on it for so long but moved off

00:05:23   of search which is of course the bread

00:05:24   and butter of google still you know it

00:05:27   seemed from the outside that you know

00:05:29   they were just decided to go in a

00:05:31   different direction and it was pretty

00:05:32   telling that they didn't give her an SVP

00:05:35   position even though you know her

00:05:37   seniority you know they had someone else

00:05:40   running local ok Jeff Huber i believe

00:05:42   was elevated to SVP of kind of local and

00:05:45   commerce above her so yeah I think the

00:05:48   writing was on the wall that she was

00:05:49   eventually going to leave and it's

00:05:51   surprising that they didn't elevate her

00:05:54   to an SVP status but who knows

00:05:57   yeah you never know what the inside

00:05:58   politics are but from the outside I

00:06:00   always thought that that she was of the

00:06:03   google that i like best

00:06:05   you know and i think that like it and

00:06:07   it's also it's the sort of thing like

00:06:08   with Apple where you just you take some

00:06:10   of this stuff for granted that it's as

00:06:12   simple as it is but I think like the

00:06:14   fact that the google homepage is just a

00:06:17   search field and two buttons

00:06:19   yep I you can say well anybody could do

00:06:22   that but i think that by I can't even

00:06:25   imagine how many times she had to say no

00:06:29   to things that other people at Google

00:06:31   wanted to do on that that homepage

00:06:34   oh yeah i mean i remember you know every

00:06:37   since 10 years five years everyone keeps

00:06:40   just imagine if they had like a giant

00:06:42   display at behind you know behind Google

00:06:45   right on google.com you know how many

00:06:47   tens of millions or hundreds of millions

00:06:49   of dollars without generating revenue

00:06:51   every single year but they just didn't

00:06:53   do it and yeah yeah most accounts that

00:06:56   was that was her job and her you know

00:06:59   her insight to not mess up that main

00:07:02   experience and that's what makes me

00:07:03   optimistic about her being a good CEO

00:07:05   for yahoo is that she obviously has that

00:07:09   ability to say no I mean that's like the

00:07:11   famous Steve Jobs quote that he's

00:07:12   prouder of the things they said no to

00:07:14   the things they actually said yes to

00:07:15   because that's what that's what keeps

00:07:17   the company focus

00:07:19   yeah and i would say along those lines

00:07:21   you know I've met her a number of times

00:07:23   I don't know her all that well but you

00:07:25   know we've counted from here from time

00:07:27   to time dr. onstage a few times i will

00:07:31   say that you know my impression of her

00:07:32   is that she's extremely opinionated

00:07:34   which i think is great because she has

00:07:37   you know things that she likes and she

00:07:39   has her own ideas of what she wants to

00:07:41   do and she's gonna get them done because

00:07:43   that's just who she is and that's you

00:07:45   know all the accounts from people who

00:07:46   worked under her at Google will say the

00:07:48   same thing it's just you know she's not

00:07:50   wishy-washy she doesn't really have any

00:07:53   understanding of what she's trying to do

00:07:54   she knows what she wants to do and she

00:07:55   goes for it and you know that's awesome

00:07:57   right ideally i think the best type of

00:07:59   leaders have extremely strong opinions

00:08:02   loosely held right like another eligible

00:08:05   right in other words like with--like

00:08:07   with Tim Cook talking about Steve Jobs

00:08:09   that guy had the strongest opinions of

00:08:11   anybody in the world but he might change

00:08:13   them tomorrow any upright right and

00:08:16   those people often you know kind of like

00:08:18   that at the time they make it you know

00:08:20   upset or whatever in an argument they it

00:08:22   seems like they always kind of fall back

00:08:24   on the idea that they love it if someone

00:08:26   can stand up to them and can actually

00:08:27   make their case to change their mind

00:08:29   about it that's like the best thing in

00:08:31   the world for those people right i mean

00:08:32   i think all I i often think because I

00:08:36   mean and and it's just one of those like

00:08:38   ways that everything comes full circle a

00:08:40   lot of times is that you know famously

00:08:42   almost infamously yahoo had the chance

00:08:46   to acquire google in the early days

00:08:48   yep and yep and by you know did not

00:08:51   didn't quite offer enough money in

00:08:53   never happen but i think it's i think

00:08:56   it's always been pretty clear that

00:08:58   Google held up yahoo is a look that's

00:09:00   they made mistakes that we don't want to

00:09:02   make yeah yeah and that helped them no

00:09:05   doubt right on it and we have it's funny

00:09:08   because I still think of Google is the

00:09:09   upstart and yahoo is the old guard but

00:09:12   in you know by now by today's date

00:09:15   they're actually relatively the same age

00:09:17   it wasn't yahoo was informed that much

00:09:19   earlier than google right it just that

00:09:22   those first few years of yahoo were the

00:09:25   explosive years of the.com yeah you

00:09:28   still here though I like you know I

00:09:29   talked to start ups every once in a

00:09:30   while who either cut some kind of deal

00:09:32   with yahoo or do something with them

00:09:34   where they kind of run a test on their

00:09:36   homepage and it's still an insane amount

00:09:38   of crushing traffic that anyone would be

00:09:40   happy to get and that's why you know

00:09:42   that's why it's great that someone can

00:09:43   actually steer that in the right

00:09:45   direction there's no question that they

00:09:46   still have a lot of people going there i

00:09:47   think what is it now it's not the it's

00:09:49   not the number one most trafficked

00:09:51   website anymore it might be two maybe

00:09:53   three

00:09:54   I don't know what it is but its its way

00:09:56   up there still right and i think that's

00:09:58   an opportunity I think that will be the

00:09:59   first thing that you see it change about

00:10:02   i think that there and I don't think any

00:10:06   previous CEO yahoo is really left a

00:10:09   personal and like wow that that there's

00:10:13   a new CEO in charge of yahoo look at

00:10:15   yahoo.com

00:10:16   yeah that's definitely true and i don't

00:10:19   know i think that should be the first

00:10:20   thing that she does is make some changes

00:10:23   that yahoo.com is there's a new sheriff

00:10:25   in town and it's there so if there's

00:10:27   focus at this company she should put up

00:10:30   did you see that picture circulating

00:10:32   around or it's the Obama hope picture

00:10:34   but it's of versus a face know

00:10:37   supposedly being split up last around

00:10:39   Yahoo's campus right now okay I i talked

00:10:43   to a friend who works at flickr and they

00:10:45   are definitely some optimism

00:10:46   I'm excited for that I mean I just I it

00:10:49   was it randomly i logged onto flickr for

00:10:52   the first time i did i was so bad that I

00:10:54   had to reset my yahoo password and even

00:10:55   remember what it was

00:10:56   so that's how bad yahoo wasn't in my

00:10:59   head so i reset my password and login to

00:11:02   my flickr account and it was expired I

00:11:04   think it just expired like six months

00:11:05   ago signed up for it too

00:11:07   here you know rite aid plan uh so I'm

00:11:10   excited to see if they can you know

00:11:13   really not only turn the a brain around

00:11:14   but all these sub-brands I really would

00:11:16   like to use flickr for something cool

00:11:19   again and and I'd like to sign up for my

00:11:21   program i mean they have tens of

00:11:23   thousands of pictures just saved

00:11:25   it's really nice that they actually

00:11:26   don't delete them you know even if you

00:11:27   let your pro account expire they only

00:11:29   let you see a hundred of them but they

00:11:30   keep them all around just in case so

00:11:32   that's great yeah there's definitely

00:11:34   some opportunities there i also think

00:11:37   yeah what do you think she's going to do

00:11:39   with the with Microsoft deal in terms of

00:11:42   obviously being powers or search now

00:11:44   they handle like some of the front and

00:11:46   stuff you know they do some different

00:11:47   things and being does itself with search

00:11:49   but how do you think that shall approach

00:11:51   that well that's what I'd I honestly

00:11:53   don't know and I'm not close enough

00:11:55   I don't you know that i could see it

00:11:57   going one of two ways I could see it

00:11:59   where that gets abandoned in yahoo and

00:12:02   google sort of you know because of the

00:12:05   personal relationships becomes semi

00:12:08   allies

00:12:09   yep I or if it's bad blood and maybe it

00:12:13   goes the other way you know I and yeah

00:12:18   they you know in the in the initial

00:12:20   stories of her leaving you know there

00:12:22   was one i think it was in New York Times

00:12:23   report that said I you know my mayor

00:12:27   called Larry Page by phone that day to

00:12:30   resign on the spot and shit you know

00:12:32   there's no two weeks notice or anything

00:12:34   she's called by phone but of course

00:12:36   Larry page's voice issues or whatever so

00:12:37   maybe he wasn't around who knows you

00:12:39   know what the deal is with that but it

00:12:42   seems like there's a little bit of bad

00:12:44   blood between them but you know who

00:12:46   knows maybe that's reading too much into

00:12:47   it but I think you're absolutely right i

00:12:50   think it really that kind of is a is

00:12:53   it's a pretty major factor in what she

00:12:54   ends up doing you know maybe maybe she

00:12:56   just looks at the numbers and realize

00:12:58   that the microsoft deal is too good to

00:13:00   kind of you know dissolve it's

00:13:02   interesting that when Microsoft was

00:13:04   trying to my yahoo few years ago

00:13:06   remember obviously yahoo pushback

00:13:09   heavily and they were looking for anyone

00:13:11   to help them including Google and at one

00:13:13   point they had that kind of at least it

00:13:16   you know had a handshake agreement to do

00:13:17   some sort of similar ever

00:13:20   tising search deal with google that they

00:13:22   ended up doing with Microsoft but they

00:13:24   had to drop it because the government

00:13:26   officially look into it but they'll all

00:13:27   indications were that the government was

00:13:29   going to look into it but there was also

00:13:30   because yahoo is by far the number two

00:13:33   search engine at the time to google and

00:13:35   microsoft was a non-player now Microsoft

00:13:38   is number two and i don't know you know

00:13:40   maybe the government would be ok with

00:13:41   with yahoo and google tying up together

00:13:44   or maybe they still would

00:13:46   yeah i don't know i think it's going to

00:13:48   be interesting to see how that plays out

00:13:49   and I think in hindsight it will become

00:13:51   obvious how acrimonious it is that she

00:13:54   left them you know is it seen inside

00:13:56   Google as a betrayal or is it you know

00:13:59   good for her and now we're sort of like

00:14:01   partners sort of like and a comparison

00:14:03   that I've seen other people make is to

00:14:04   Stephen Elop who was a Microsoft di-

00:14:06   left for nokia and as soon as you got to

00:14:09   nokia forge this extremely tired boss

00:14:14   you know that whereas it seems pretty

00:14:16   obvious and that the nokia diehards the

00:14:18   people who don't like that they've that

00:14:20   they don't have their operating system

00:14:22   anymore see it as you know that this was

00:14:24   planned from the start that he was like

00:14:25   a mole in no pariah

00:14:27   I think I i think i alluded to that when

00:14:31   it first happened that that is awesome

00:14:33   that Microsoft gotta plant in in Nokia's

00:14:36   area and I think that through some

00:14:39   higher from Frank shot his head

00:14:40   microsoft corporate communications they

00:14:42   did not like that too much

00:14:43   well I mean however much it was planned

00:14:45   and however much that you know that this

00:14:47   was it was agreed upon and events it's

00:14:49   certainly in hindsight is shown know

00:14:51   that Stephen Elop experience as a

00:14:55   Microsoft executive certainly influenced

00:14:57   his leadership in nokia in a very Pro

00:15:00   microsoft way

00:15:02   ya mean that's definitely right i mean

00:15:04   we doesn't really matter whether you

00:15:06   think that it's good or bad for nokia

00:15:08   but that certainly is the way it's

00:15:10   played out

00:15:10   I don't you know I think we'll have to

00:15:12   see if it's going to happen like that

00:15:13   with with marissa mayer right there's

00:15:16   something to be said for you know just

00:15:18   doing what you know and what you've done

00:15:19   for the past decade or more and that's

00:15:21   like you know it's the rest of our

00:15:24   google runs very thick through her blood

00:15:27   so you know maybe she does just turn to

00:15:29   them for certain things that that

00:15:31   previous yahoo CEOs one

00:15:33   done another thing that you brought up

00:15:35   if you know right after it happened

00:15:37   which was interesting you tweeted about

00:15:38   did she use an iphone or not and they

00:15:41   think you know a lot of people kind of

00:15:43   dug up that you would see like the

00:15:45   little uh little indications on Twitter

00:15:47   and stuff that she was tweeting from an

00:15:48   iphone and using Instagram in the early

00:15:50   days and stuff like that

00:15:51   that's interesting because you know it's

00:15:53   kinda also shows that she wasn't so

00:15:55   ingrained in the android culture that

00:15:57   she's going to you know

00:15:58   bend over backwards to fork make some

00:16:01   kind of yahoo phone or something that's

00:16:03   that's that's only working on android it

00:16:05   seems like that won't happen and that's

00:16:07   great yeah that you know and it wasn't

00:16:10   just it wasn't just me trying to view

00:16:13   everything from what's it mean for Apple

00:16:15   perspective right by I think I think it

00:16:18   shows that she has an open mind more

00:16:19   than anything you know that she wasn't

00:16:21   just another cog in the google machine

00:16:23   that just uses android because you have

00:16:24   to use android there she was willing and

00:16:26   maybe it's great for from her viewpoint

00:16:28   of a competitive landscape maybe she

00:16:30   wanted just to use iphone maybe she

00:16:32   liked it more maybe she wanted to use it

00:16:33   because she really felt like she needed

00:16:35   to stay on top of you know what are the

00:16:37   big emerging trends out there

00:16:39   well any other thing that makes it

00:16:41   interesting now that she's the CEO at

00:16:42   yahoo's the yahoo I it is quiet but they

00:16:47   have a bunch of partnerships with Apple

00:16:49   as it the content provider for the

00:16:51   iphone

00:16:52   yeah and it's even more with I was 6 or

00:16:55   because I've already talked about kind

00:16:56   of the the Serie and sports integration

00:16:59   I think that's yahoo sports yes it is

00:17:01   its yeah this all the sports stuff in

00:17:03   ios6 is powered by yahoo sports and

00:17:07   yahoo sports is actually one of the

00:17:09   powerhouse properties in yahoo i mean

00:17:14   everybody is not a huge sports fan it's

00:17:16   it's sort of quietly everybody thinks of

00:17:19   things like flickr and the search and

00:17:21   and yahoo mail and stuff like that but

00:17:24   Yahoo Sports is it easily top five

00:17:27   sports site on the web

00:17:29   maybe oh yeah i think it's too it might

00:17:31   be to be you know you always hear these

00:17:33   reports like an ESPN you'll hear in

00:17:35   sports center where they talk about a

00:17:36   report from yahoo sports yeah and that

00:17:39   happens all the time it's a part of it

00:17:41   is because the huge part of it is

00:17:42   because they actually invested quite

00:17:45   heavily in

00:17:46   in original journalism ya on that side

00:17:49   of things in the plan I think way back

00:17:50   when the plan was to kind of start that

00:17:52   with Yahoo Sports see if it would work

00:17:54   and then go into other verticals and

00:17:56   they just never really did that to see

00:17:58   if they could replace like you know the

00:17:59   AP Reuters and become like one of the

00:18:01   you know main sources of wire news and

00:18:04   whatnot but they did do a great job

00:18:05   hiring at yahoo sports and it it remains

00:18:08   a great place for you know breaking

00:18:10   sports news

00:18:11   yeah and i think it's i don't know I I

00:18:14   would yeah i think it's either number

00:18:16   one or number two probably after ESPN

00:18:17   I'm guess yeah I would imagine ESPN's 1

00:18:20   i'm probably too maybe CBS 4s but i

00:18:22   think it's i think it's probably yahoo

00:18:24   sports and it's by far the biggest of

00:18:26   the online-only properties right like

00:18:29   you know the ones that are that competes

00:18:30   with our the TV mostly the TV one's by

00:18:33   ESPN and CBS Sports is big

00:18:37   I and probably Sports Illustrated right

00:18:41   which CNN right now

00:18:43   yeah that's part of it yeah that's

00:18:45   that's really interesting they're also

00:18:46   huge obviously in finance right so they

00:18:50   have a network that's what powers the

00:18:52   iOS stocks app is still right yahoo

00:18:54   financial information so that's another

00:18:57   big vertical from yahoo news is still

00:18:59   huge

00:19:00   I think I don't know if I think google

00:19:02   news may have overtaken it is bigger

00:19:04   property but it's still you know a major

00:19:06   driving factor and what people use yahoo

00:19:09   for rent and I i think that Mobile is

00:19:16   obviously a huge question going forward

00:19:18   for yahoo and you know Apple obviously

00:19:22   has as you know the whole shebang google

00:19:26   obviously has android microsoft has

00:19:29   windows phone haha yahoo doesn't really

00:19:33   have its own or not even I shouldn't

00:19:36   even say really just doesn't have any

00:19:38   kind of mobile right they have no in of

00:19:43   their own right there

00:19:44   they're completely at the beck and call

00:19:46   of these other players right and i think

00:19:48   it was you know I bigger pointless for

00:19:50   them to start I think that they're there

00:19:52   play from mobile is I think to be a

00:19:55   content provider

00:19:56   yes right they absolutely should and

00:19:58   there and that's it's working so far for

00:19:59   iOS

00:20:00   you would imagine that it won't work for

00:20:02   the google flavored android because

00:20:03   they'll they have their own competing

00:20:05   services across the board for all that

00:20:07   stuff for search for sport well not

00:20:10   really for sports maybe we could do for

00:20:11   sports but for finance revenues but you

00:20:14   know maybe sports and you know certainly

00:20:16   maybe they could do something with

00:20:17   Microsoft given the big deal for windows

00:20:20   phone they could

00:20:21   yeah i think that's that's the way to do

00:20:23   well any other things that that struck

00:20:25   me about microsoft is now Microsoft is

00:20:27   out of MSNBC no yeah right like they got

00:20:31   out of the TV channel wide while back

00:20:34   yep but they were they were still

00:20:37   partners on the on the website and now

00:20:39   they're not so I I i do think there's

00:20:42   some opportunities there where they can

00:20:43   sort of try to play it up cross no not

00:20:47   just not just Apple but you know

00:20:50   across-the-board try to get the yahoo

00:20:52   properties established as the leading

00:20:54   mobile providers

00:20:57   yeah that's smart i forget who was I

00:20:59   don't was a you i don't think it was you

00:21:00   who said like one simple goal for yahoo

00:21:04   you know like just talking about that

00:21:05   right after the hiring talking what

00:21:08   Yahoo should focus on like just just

00:21:10   trying to get one app on the main screen

00:21:13   of like every iOS and Android device out

00:21:15   there and is it and I think that it's

00:21:18   good that good strategy i think yeah I

00:21:20   think that's absolutely edge it's it's a

00:21:22   clear goal i think it's in I think it's

00:21:24   doable

00:21:25   yeah yeah and and so google apple also

00:21:30   has the deals for yahoo mail obviously

00:21:33   they've had that since the beginning it

00:21:34   and yeah also sort of interesting

00:21:36   because it's also I think hotmail is

00:21:38   bigger which is weird but i think that's

00:21:40   the biggest one and I think yahoo mail

00:21:42   is still number two with google quickly

00:21:45   catching up to it but that's that's

00:21:46   another property that's huge there's

00:21:48   yahoo messenger it seems like IM is sort

00:21:50   of falling by the wayside you know maybe

00:21:52   they can do some interesting video stuff

00:21:54   and compete with skype more something

00:21:56   like that but these are you know things

00:21:58   that that tens of millions of people use

00:22:00   every day if not a hundred million

00:22:02   people it's kind of a crazy thing

00:22:04   they're scale at that point and I think

00:22:05   that the and i think the other thing

00:22:07   they've got to do is they've got to

00:22:08   start thinking about what's the next big

00:22:10   thing

00:22:11   yes

00:22:11   absolutely and that that will require

00:22:14   you know bringing in some some real

00:22:18   outside thinkers not just the people who

00:22:21   have obviously been at yahoo for the

00:22:22   past 10 years and you know it sucks but

00:22:25   i hope that they do clear house quite a

00:22:28   bit it seems like there's you know you

00:22:30   don't want to call him dead weight but

00:22:31   it seems like there's just a lot of

00:22:32   people you talk to former and current

00:22:35   yahoo employees even they just say

00:22:36   people are just they're collecting a

00:22:38   paycheck and they're not really inspired

00:22:39   maybe this hiring inspires fifty percent

00:22:42   of them but they're still going to be

00:22:43   fifty percent who are just you know just

00:22:45   their kind of kicking around there

00:22:47   they're B players when they need to be a

00:22:48   player's kind of situation i'd totally

00:22:51   agree i think they got a clean house

00:22:54   focus focus focus get a nap on ever get

00:22:59   try to get one app on everybody's home

00:23:00   screen and then figure out what the next

00:23:02   big thing that yahoo can can start the

00:23:05   market for yeah definitely I like our

00:23:09   chances i really do i do too i think

00:23:12   every you know there's there's reason

00:23:15   why the consensus is that this is a good

00:23:16   thing you know there's a few naysayers

00:23:18   who say like I'll she didn't get along

00:23:19   with anyone that you at Google but

00:23:21   there's always going to be stories of

00:23:23   you know you and you can report any

00:23:25   story that you want you can always find

00:23:26   someone to say that but i think that the

00:23:28   general consensus you know ninety

00:23:30   percent of the people are saying that

00:23:31   this is a good thing i think it actually

00:23:33   is a good thing and you never have seen

00:23:35   this before at least in recent memory of

00:23:37   yahoo even when jerry yang came back

00:23:39   right uh it was you know is like a case

00:23:42   they're gonna try and do like it Steve

00:23:43   Jobs rejuvenation type thing but is this

00:23:46   really going to work and of course it

00:23:47   didn't work at all right on it certainly

00:23:50   success is definitely not insured but i

00:23:52   think it's amps it's definitely a

00:23:53   possibility the opportunity is there

00:23:55   I also think too that anybody who who

00:23:59   says know a lot is obviously going to

00:24:01   make enemies

00:24:02   I mean maybe enemies the wrong word but

00:24:04   they're going to have people say which I

00:24:05   do I didn't like working under her

00:24:07   because she said no to all this stuff

00:24:09   alright yeah alright let me take a break

00:24:11   and let me thank our first sponsor i

00:24:13   love these guys

00:24:14   studio neat studio need is a small

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00:24:20   that first time I noticed them they have

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00:24:24   it's a tripod mountain stand for the

00:24:26   iphone 4 and 4s and it's a brilliant

00:24:29   little design because it's multi-use

00:24:32   it's one little piece of plastic and

00:24:34   rubber with a little um tripod mount on

00:24:37   one side so you snapped on the side of

00:24:39   your iphone and it fits on any standard

00:24:41   tripod if you're using it to shoot video

00:24:43   works great in conjunction with

00:24:46   something like a gorillapod little

00:24:48   flexible tripod that you can mount on

00:24:50   just about anything and you take the

00:24:55   glove off turn it sideways and it turns

00:24:56   into a little love prop up your iphone

00:24:58   like as an easel type thing I use it all

00:25:02   the time for that you watch i watch

00:25:03   baseball games on my iphone use the

00:25:06   glyph to prop it up

00:25:07   I they've got another great little

00:25:10   product called the cosmonaut it's a wide

00:25:13   grip style is sort of like this sort of

00:25:16   like a fat magic marker stylist for any

00:25:20   touchscreen first thing I think anybody

00:25:23   thinks when they see is why is it so fat

00:25:25   white white why isn't a finer tip

00:25:28   because the touchscreens we have aren't

00:25:30   meant for fine tip styluses they're

00:25:33   meant for something the size of a finger

00:25:35   so the cosmonaut has like a finger-sized

00:25:39   stylus tip works great use it all the

00:25:41   time

00:25:42   my son loves it free using apps on the

00:25:44   iPad like color and they also have but

00:25:49   also they have they have a app its frame

00:25:51   agra fur it's a stop motion timelapse

00:25:54   moviemaking app so if you make make

00:25:57   little movies like with Lego figures or

00:25:59   something like that stop motion

00:26:00   obviously works great in conjunction

00:26:03   with the glyph just great great products

00:26:08   from a small design shop just two guys

00:26:09   making products selling love the stories

00:26:13   they've got a 20-percent discount for

00:26:16   everybody listens to the show so you go

00:26:18   to their website studio neat any 80

00:26:21   studio neat dot-com enter the talk show

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00:26:29   from the store studio neat i want to

00:26:32   thank these guys we wouldn't be doing

00:26:33   the show without me

00:26:35   use a stylus with your with your i

00:26:39   paddle never do you know this this

00:26:41   cosmonaut thing is sort of interesting

00:26:43   i've seen it you know out around before

00:26:46   but it's a hook that kind of like a cran

00:26:49   yeah one of those big fat cranes yeah

00:26:52   that's good you know there is that story

00:26:54   a couple days ago that I forget who

00:26:57   reported it but that Microsoft is

00:26:59   looking into you know next-generation

00:27:01   styluses 442 use with their surface

00:27:05   devices or went out and you know your

00:27:06   kind of reminded of that the Steve Jobs

00:27:08   quote that if you see let's see a

00:27:11   stylist they blew it but this one is

00:27:12   good huh what's this guy's butt up

00:27:14   yeah well it's it's good for it's great

00:27:17   for what the ipad is in fact 18 when

00:27:20   they designed it they had a blog post

00:27:22   about it and they said look if if the

00:27:24   tip has to be fat and all the other

00:27:26   stylists do you see for the ipad ones

00:27:29   that look like more like a regular pet

00:27:31   pens dimensions

00:27:32   yep still have like a pinky finger size

00:27:35   tip at the end because that's what the

00:27:36   screen sense with the touch sensor is

00:27:38   optimized for right on so no it's not

00:27:41   like riding with a fine tip pen and you

00:27:43   can you can get tiny little handwriting

00:27:45   it's you know it's like a marker but if

00:27:47   it's if that's what the tip has to be

00:27:48   why not give you a big thick marker in

00:27:51   your hand it's almost like you like

00:27:53   writing on a on a small white board

00:27:55   instead of pen and paper huh that's

00:27:58   interesting

00:27:58   ok so like from a practical like given

00:28:01   the the practical aspects of what the

00:28:03   ipad screen already it supports as a

00:28:06   touchscreen it's it's like an optimal

00:28:08   marker for nice and and and people often

00:28:13   say to me people often go cuz i quote

00:28:15   the APCs stylist they blew it i right

00:28:18   whatwhat jobs men about that though is

00:28:20   is a device that ships with a stylus and

00:28:23   in writing requires that right either

00:28:26   requires it or is intended to be used a

00:28:28   lot of the time

00:28:30   not that there's never a case for it i

00:28:32   mean i think a nap like paper or any of

00:28:35   the drawing apps for the ipad i

00:28:37   absolutely work better with a stylus

00:28:39   them with a finger

00:28:40   yep yeah and I think that's you know

00:28:43   what is the Galaxy Note has one right

00:28:45   there right a giant phablet and it's

00:28:47   just so ridiculous

00:28:48   affected that ships with one I think I

00:28:51   just saw that they're going to do a

00:28:53   galaxy note 10 now like their content

00:28:56   yeah they're gonna use that because I

00:28:58   guess it is a big seller especially in

00:29:00   in Korea that they're gonna use the note

00:29:03   brand as well it makes sense i mean it

00:29:07   always

00:29:07   I you know someone once I've only seen

00:29:09   it a couple times but someone's head one

00:29:11   stage you know you have them hold it up

00:29:13   to their face just to see how big it is

00:29:14   it's not that much different than the

00:29:16   size of the galaxy 7 which is where the

00:29:19   nexus 7 which is sort of funny

00:29:21   yeah speaking of which you about two

00:29:25   weeks ago you know you reviewed the

00:29:26   nexus 7 over at TechCrunch and you liked

00:29:28   it

00:29:29   yes i did i did and I you know I liked

00:29:32   it a lot more than I expected to you

00:29:34   know it's kind of I was I was gone

00:29:36   uh I was abroad when Google i/o happen

00:29:38   where they had failed it and I was kinda

00:29:41   i was watching the Twitter chatter and

00:29:42   and I'd heard a little thing a few

00:29:44   things here and there about what was

00:29:46   coming and so it intrigued me because I

00:29:48   wanted to see what the form factors like

00:29:50   I mostly wanted to see if google would

00:29:52   be able to google and their partner aces

00:29:54   would be able to create a decent even

00:29:57   tablet for under two hundred dollars

00:29:59   because we've all seen the kindle fire

00:30:01   it sucks you know it's it's 200 is under

00:30:04   two hundred dollars but i am not making

00:30:06   any money selling it and it still sucks

00:30:08   so I was very curious to see what if it

00:30:11   would be any good and so the the initial

00:30:13   reports coming out seem to suggest that

00:30:15   was pretty good and so Google was nice

00:30:17   enough to send me one too to take a look

00:30:19   at and you know props to them they know

00:30:20   that I I'm pretty negative towards

00:30:23   google image in recent years in general

00:30:26   but they know i think that you know if

00:30:27   they if they actually make a good

00:30:28   product i'm gonna call it like I see it

00:30:30   and say that it's a pretty good product

00:30:32   and i do believe that this is a pretty

00:30:34   good product i think that you know it's

00:30:37   it's a lot of people want to frame and

00:30:39   of course the ipad it's different right

00:30:42   now because one is you know a 9.7 inch

00:30:46   one is a 7-inch tablet and you you hear

00:30:49   that in your mind and you think oh

00:30:51   that's not the big difference but

00:30:53   diagonally speaking the screen size and

00:30:54   everything it's actually a pretty huge

00:30:56   difference and that's i love the form

00:30:58   factor of it and you know as I said in

00:31:01   my review

00:31:02   I think that this is the strongest case

00:31:04   yet for why Apple should do something in

00:31:07   this in this form factor in all

00:31:09   indications you know seem to be that

00:31:11   they're going to do something maybe a

00:31:12   little bit bigger of course but uh I you

00:31:15   know the main thing is the form factor

00:31:17   the second thing is that Android a 4.1

00:31:21   jellybean variety is a is finally to the

00:31:24   point where it feels smooth enough and

00:31:26   it's interesting i also have it

00:31:28   installed on a Galaxy Nexus which is you

00:31:30   know their last flagship device and i

00:31:33   definitely liked it more on the nexus 7

00:31:34   i don't know if you know III this device

00:31:36   is obviously a little bit faster than

00:31:38   that but uh for whatever reason i just i

00:31:40   think it's it's much more nicely attuned

00:31:43   to do that 7-inch tablet than it is to

00:31:45   the the 4 inch or whatever size screen

00:31:48   the the Galaxy Nexus has and maybe

00:31:50   because there's less scrolling involved

00:31:52   yeah good because I still feel like I

00:31:54   still feel like that's the one thing on

00:31:56   Android that is very jarring is

00:31:58   scrolling yeah it it's you know they

00:32:02   made a big point about saying how

00:32:03   buttery they even call it butter right

00:32:05   there

00:32:05   their new accelerated thing it's still

00:32:08   it's not as smooth as iOS four you know

00:32:12   whatever reason they can't get that to

00:32:14   happen but it's you know it's something

00:32:15   that i think the majority of consumers

00:32:17   would would would not care about and/or

00:32:20   notice except subconsciously which I do

00:32:23   think it's so important I think you know

00:32:24   when people think about quality there's

00:32:26   subconscious things going on you know

00:32:28   when they use the device when they pick

00:32:29   it up at an apple store and just don't

00:32:30   even realize like oh this is so much

00:32:32   smoother it's just kind of a little

00:32:33   thing but I think for the most part the

00:32:36   price and the size of this makes it

00:32:38   compelling to a lot of people and I

00:32:40   think they're going to have strong sales

00:32:42   the indications are that they're already

00:32:43   a failing to meet some demand for it

00:32:46   right

00:32:46   it's a very good time and I do think

00:32:48   that mean they have explicitly pitched

00:32:50   it as a consumption device

00:32:52   I mean they're an addy I into their

00:32:54   credit i actually think that sort of

00:32:56   focus is why the product is getting I

00:33:00   haven't I actually haven't seen a bad

00:33:01   review of the next system

00:33:03   yeah and I think that that having that

00:33:06   sort of focus so here's what it's meant

00:33:08   for it is meant for buying stuff from

00:33:10   our google play store

00:33:13   yeah we went to the point where they put

00:33:15   all

00:33:16   that stuff on the main screen like they

00:33:17   have this widget and in jellybean that's

00:33:19   basically like you can rearrange things

00:33:22   a bit but they have you know giant

00:33:23   picture of a magazine you know that

00:33:25   comes shipped with it's like an Esquire

00:33:27   or something and then they have a

00:33:28   Transformers movie box a artwork so you

00:33:34   have that on there too and then you have

00:33:35   a couple books that they shipped with it

00:33:36   they make it front and center very

00:33:38   obvious that this is about this is about

00:33:40   media consumption and the google play

00:33:42   store right and i also think you know

00:33:44   and i know we for three years now we've

00:33:46   had these arguments about the ipad is it

00:33:48   for consumption is it good for creation

00:33:50   is a general-purpose computer I and as a

00:33:55   platform it's for anything I mean

00:33:57   eventually these tablet OS is like

00:34:00   android and iOS could be used that you

00:34:03   know that's that's the future of

00:34:04   computing in general for everything on

00:34:07   so the argument isn't is the ipad mostly

00:34:12   used for consumption yes probably it is

00:34:14   but that you know windows is mostly used

00:34:15   for consumption most people don't make

00:34:17   websites most people just reading right

00:34:19   i mean I stuff my entire the entire

00:34:21   internet is that way I mean you know

00:34:23   there's the rule where it's ten percent

00:34:25   creators and ninety percent you know

00:34:26   right

00:34:26   consumers of of the information yeah but

00:34:29   i do think that that's the argument in

00:34:31   favor of or a big part of the argument

00:34:34   and end of Apple jumping into this you

00:34:36   know smaller tablet market is for people

00:34:39   who are just look I just want to watch

00:34:42   some TV shows while I sit in bed with

00:34:44   something that just comfortably sits on

00:34:45   my you know I'm propped up in bed

00:34:48   yeah it's a great form factor I think

00:34:49   you know going back really quick to the

00:34:52   two that the media side of things and

00:34:55   kind of these these devices being set up

00:34:57   for the google play store you know the

00:34:59   one of the biggest criticisms I had of

00:35:01   the Nexus 7 is that while google is

00:35:03   playing this up as as a device for

00:35:05   consumption of the google play content

00:35:07   Google Play content is still not nearly

00:35:10   where it needs to be in relation to both

00:35:12   Apple and Amazon I mean they still don't

00:35:15   have warner music on there so that you

00:35:16   know don't have a quarter of of the

00:35:18   music catalog out there in the world are

00:35:20   on this that you can get on this device

00:35:22   what do you do with if you have you know

00:35:24   REM or something or some other Warner

00:35:26   artist that you really want and you can

00:35:28   get it you could use of course

00:35:29   spotifyrdio or one of those but you know

00:35:32   there's Google is trying to get you to

00:35:33   use the google play store and they just

00:35:35   don't have the same amount of content

00:35:37   same goes with magazine same goes with

00:35:38   books

00:35:39   same goes with even-even films they

00:35:41   don't have everything right and and so

00:35:44   it's kinda I did I still don't really

00:35:46   think that Google has the complete

00:35:48   picture worked out of how this should

00:35:50   work it's kind of confusing as to why

00:35:52   they're forcing everyone into this

00:35:55   mentality that this is for the google

00:35:56   play store when the google you know the

00:35:58   play store isn't quite ready for prime

00:36:00   time yet but i think they saw the the

00:36:02   Amazon threat of the kindle fire you

00:36:04   know taking control of Android itself

00:36:07   for the tablets and they just felt like

00:36:09   they had to make this move right now

00:36:10   right and i think it was a very right

00:36:15   it's very much it really is exactly what

00:36:19   they said it was there's no hidden

00:36:21   purpose to it is to have a device to

00:36:25   support their online media that you know

00:36:28   the play store

00:36:29   yeah yeah and and you know while it's

00:36:33   well it's definitely it's definitely a

00:36:36   hit on the advice that they don't have

00:36:37   any 3g you know or wireless capabilities

00:36:40   whatsoever i also think that that's a

00:36:42   great move on their part just because

00:36:44   just because the fact they can show the

00:36:46   carrier's finally that they have some

00:36:47   leverage

00:36:48   uh you know that they can actually sell

00:36:50   these things without needing the carrier

00:36:53   right uh you know to do it and so they

00:36:55   can finally ship android the new android

00:36:57   updates and not have to worry about any

00:36:59   carrier having any say over when these

00:37:02   wear these rollouts actually come i do

00:37:04   think the next that brings us back to

00:37:06   the commercial in the commercial is this

00:37:07   the dad camping with his son and they're

00:37:10   using the nexus 7 to do all sorts of

00:37:13   cool things at night on and the big

00:37:18   reveal at the end of the commercial is

00:37:20   that other just can't they're actually

00:37:22   just camping in the backyard right which

00:37:24   explains why how they had no internet

00:37:26   access because it's Wi-Fi on right i

00:37:29   mean the other explanation would be that

00:37:30   the dad had my fire or something you

00:37:32   know it in his bag but that's not going

00:37:34   to work for a sexy commercial yeah

00:37:36   that's it's sort of funny the way that

00:37:38   they did it just kind of nodding to the

00:37:40   fact that you probably don't want to use

00:37:42   this thing actually in the

00:37:43   the woods that you will just want to use

00:37:45   a close to your house or close to a

00:37:47   place of work somewhere with Wi-Fi i do

00:37:50   wonder i wonder if the lack of a of a 3g

00:37:53   version if they're about to be hit on

00:37:55   two sides on that front though because

00:37:57   what if and what if the kindle to Kindle

00:38:00   Fire 2 has yeah that's a great point

00:38:04   because I amazon already has those

00:38:06   relationships right with with the kindle

00:38:08   itself they had who'd ya at first I

00:38:10   think they tmobile and then they got

00:38:12   AT&T to provide for free

00:38:14   it was baked into the cost of the device

00:38:16   but you could get updates of your books

00:38:18   and download books for free without

00:38:20   having to worry about a monthly bill

00:38:21   thing right I do wonder how they would

00:38:23   negotiate that if if it was a general

00:38:25   consumption device meaning you know you

00:38:27   could browse the web and download movies

00:38:30   uh it seems like it would be a little

00:38:33   little pricey for them to I don't think

00:38:35   trying to negotiate something without a

00:38:37   deal right now I don't think and I don't

00:38:38   think they could possibly do that for

00:38:40   free i mean nobody they can do it they

00:38:41   got away with it on the E and candles

00:38:43   because that's so little data right and

00:38:46   Emmy of you mean if you ever tried using

00:38:48   the web browser on one of those things

00:38:49   minutes you know it's almost it's like a

00:38:52   parlor trick it's not really

00:38:54   yeah it's not really feasible it's like

00:38:56   getting web pages by facts right but

00:38:59   maybe may I got they would have to I

00:39:02   imagines do the same kind of deal that

00:39:04   Apple did with the ipad where you have a

00:39:06   a come come as you want to take plan

00:39:09   we're just you know you can pay one

00:39:10   month and not pay the next imagine they

00:39:12   have to do that unless unless they did

00:39:15   some deal with one of the carriers and

00:39:16   they subsidize the price the kindle fire

00:39:18   down to free because you signed up for

00:39:21   ten dollars a month or something like

00:39:22   that maybe they could do that but it

00:39:24   still seems like the the bar has been

00:39:27   set with these tablet devices that

00:39:29   you're going to pay whatever you pay

00:39:31   whatever the retail prices and you're

00:39:32   not going to worry about a monthly bill

00:39:34   Wright which brings us to apples

00:39:37   purported ipad mini and whether or not

00:39:39   it will have 3g I i think it will I

00:39:44   think it'll have the exact same sku

00:39:46   configurations is as the big ipad so you

00:39:49   think it will have 4g as well and also

00:39:51   LTE know I'd well I don't know I don't

00:39:56   know about that

00:39:56   that yeah I i guess that comes down to

00:40:00   two battery in and yeah that's the

00:40:04   biggest factor i would imagine for what

00:40:06   they are decided by maybe because a lot

00:40:08   of what I've been seeing lately

00:40:09   speculates that a big a bigger power

00:40:12   drain on the ipad 3 is the retina

00:40:15   display not the LT compared to the ipad

00:40:18   2 that the screen is actually consuming

00:40:20   a bigger reason why the battery is

00:40:22   thicker than the LTE that's interesting

00:40:26   LOL so you have to you have to consider

00:40:28   the fact that you know were what six

00:40:31   months removing us from the new ipad and

00:40:33   so even now they probably have slightly

00:40:36   better chips in terms of power

00:40:37   consumption management for LTE can

00:40:39   imagine

00:40:40   yeah I actually now that I think about

00:40:41   it I think it's gonna be I think it

00:40:43   probably would if it has 3g at all it

00:40:45   would have LT and if they do that that's

00:40:49   that's a killer feature right there

00:40:51   right we'll have a lot of people are

00:40:52   going to love that what do you think I

00:40:54   am I thought on price is 299 I don't

00:40:58   think they're gonna go to 199 what do

00:40:59   you think there's I think they'll do 199

00:41:01   wifi-only but and location and Andy

00:41:05   usually amount of storage but they'll

00:41:07   hit that price point and you'll have to

00:41:10   pay i forget what the what's the premium

00:41:14   for getting 3g on i think i think it's

00:41:17   is it is only thirty dollars no it's a

00:41:20   hundred and thirty dollars right right a

00:41:22   hundred and thirty dollars that's all i

00:41:24   said i would think you know 199 get you

00:41:26   a Wi-Fi only one and 299 get you one

00:41:29   with 3g like a hundred so how'd it how

00:41:32   do you reconcile that then you know with

00:41:34   the there was just a report yesterday

00:41:35   and you know who knows these are

00:41:36   one-time reports out of like Japan or

00:41:38   China or wherever where you know talking

00:41:40   about a new ipod touch it seems like a

00:41:42   new ipod touch is coming because they

00:41:43   haven't refresh your writing over a year

00:41:45   right

00:41:46   it's been 22 years basically and if that

00:41:49   device which now sells for 199 at the

00:41:51   base level how do you reconcile the

00:41:53   price discrepancy like those being the

00:41:55   same price i just i don't think it's a I

00:41:57   don't think it's a problem I think it's

00:41:58   clear i think that with devices like

00:42:02   laptops

00:42:03   yep there's that it's a one-way

00:42:07   correlation smaller is cheaper bigger is

00:42:09   more expensive because you're the bigger

00:42:11   displays are more expensive yet but

00:42:14   laptops only shrink to a certain size

00:42:17   whereas stuff that fits in your pocket

00:42:19   you actually pay a premium for

00:42:21   miniaturization and to me it's exactly

00:42:23   the same as the the dilemma over the

00:42:27   original of going back to like 2,000 for

00:42:30   the ipod mini rights which only had

00:42:34   wrote about the other day is very is not

00:42:36   there's not a huge price discrepancy

00:42:38   even though it had less memory and it

00:42:40   was just smaller right we're paying

00:42:42   almost had it had less storage and only

00:42:44   had four gigabytes of storage which was

00:42:46   less than the original ipod from three

00:42:49   years prior so people were like this is

00:42:50   not no one's gonna buy this and the

00:42:53   truth is people see wow that's way

00:42:55   smaller and cooler looking I want that

00:42:57   one

00:42:58   yeah I that so that's what I think I

00:43:00   maybe maybe there's an issue where they

00:43:02   don't want both of them priced exactly

00:43:04   199 and they dropped the intro of the

00:43:06   like the the base model of the ipod

00:43:09   touch to 179

00:43:10   yeah something like that I but i don't

00:43:14   think it's an issue because it's two

00:43:15   entirely different

00:43:17   i sighs yeah if they include so you know

00:43:22   presumably a new ipod touch would have a

00:43:25   Retina display because the old one

00:43:26   already dice and it would presumably

00:43:29   also have a better camera if they can be

00:43:30   you know just as a camera device if it

00:43:32   is just as good of a camera as the the

00:43:34   iphone 4s does that's a killer camera

00:43:36   device for you know kids to buy for 199

00:43:39   and carry around with them and you know

00:43:41   on top of everything else it does so I

00:43:43   agree with you because the ipad mini

00:43:45   will you no will call that will not be

00:43:48   considered a camera device except for

00:43:50   those few jackasses and counselors that

00:43:52   will hold it as they always do with the

00:43:55   regular ipad right with that I thought

00:43:57   of that too is how many people I see

00:43:59   with how many people I see using the

00:44:01   iPad as a camera I can't even imagine

00:44:02   how people are going to use the ipad

00:44:04   mini and they'll just they'll have like

00:44:07   head-mounted head-mounted displays with

00:44:09   the with this little device probably two

00:44:11   of them up there to be able to capture

00:44:13   two different you know like it and it's

00:44:15   the same thing going back to like stuff

00:44:16   like Game Boys and and

00:44:18   and you know the playstation portable

00:44:20   and stuff like that like people know

00:44:22   that the shrink it to fit in a pants

00:44:24   pocket costs a lot of money

00:44:26   yeah like white and white is a PSP a

00:44:28   playstation portable cost as much as a

00:44:31   the whole console right right

00:44:35   I wonder you know they're so there's

00:44:37   there's battery life as well so the

00:44:38   Nexus 7 has great battery life part of

00:44:40   the reason though is that it doesn't

00:44:42   have the wireless uh you know chips in

00:44:44   it so it's a it's only relying on Wi-Fi

00:44:46   to be able to do that nor does it have a

00:44:47   Retina display but we we assume right

00:44:50   the ipad mini will not have a Retina

00:44:51   display because you've made the great

00:44:53   point you know great case for why it

00:44:55   would if they do it would be cut from

00:44:57   the same bright display as the three the

00:45:00   iphone right and I don't know that for a

00:45:02   fact that's just my own speculation and

00:45:04   so maybe it would actually be a

00:45:05   different technology but i still think

00:45:07   though the fact that they have

00:45:08   experienced massive amounts of

00:45:10   experience for five years making exactly

00:45:12   163 pics pixel print screens that it

00:45:16   it's gotta work out in our favor

00:45:18   operations was even if it's not

00:45:19   literally cut from the same sheet says

00:45:21   that the 3gs but I Isis I would be very

00:45:24   surprised I wouldn't be surprised at all

00:45:25   if when we get them and we look at it

00:45:27   that it looks like you know a quadruple

00:45:30   size 3gs and that's a that's you know

00:45:33   that's another differentiating factor

00:45:35   between what we just talked about the

00:45:36   differentiating factors between the ipod

00:45:38   touch and the this ipad mini yes also

00:45:41   have to think obviously the ipad mini

00:45:42   versus the regular ipad i mean yeah

00:45:45   absolutely i think that and I know so I

00:45:47   don't think that I i would expect that

00:45:49   even if they even after even if it's

00:45:51   true and apple does release this 7.5

00:45:54   inch ipad mini at a aggressive price

00:45:57   point I mean maybe it starts at two

00:45:59   forty nine instead of young 99 me that

00:46:01   way it's not more than half the price i

00:46:03   mean i think that's I think 249 is a

00:46:06   very very good bet if you're if you've

00:46:08   got like an office pool on what the ipad

00:46:10   mini starting price is going to be 2 49

00:46:11   is committed and maybe even better than

00:46:14   one menu and yeah and it's still I mean

00:46:17   they could easily get away with doing

00:46:18   that in a world of a of a 199 Nexus 7

00:46:21   and Kindle Fire because there's so much

00:46:23   more to just value in the ecosystem of

00:46:26   all these apps that are made for the

00:46:27   ipad they've all this content that's

00:46:29   already out there they have millions of

00:46:31   users that already have

00:46:32   have all their apps you know that

00:46:35   they've downloaded and so you know

00:46:36   you're gonna have tens of millions of

00:46:38   users right off the bat who buy this

00:46:39   thing yeah even if they do it i don't

00:46:41   expect that sales of the big ipad the

00:46:44   regular one with the only one we know

00:46:46   now i don't think that they'll drop it

00:46:48   all I think they'll continue to grow

00:46:50   I think it's a different i think it's

00:46:51   expanding into a different market not

00:46:53   eating into the same market and I wonder

00:46:55   you know the margin question would be

00:46:58   fascinating to kind of get into its like

00:47:00   the there's they're getting down there

00:47:03   because the ipad is already a lower

00:47:04   margin device than the iphone right but

00:47:06   that's a lot to do with subsidies and

00:47:08   right you know that's that's a huge

00:47:09   issue there but it's still it's still a

00:47:11   healthy margin that they're making when

00:47:13   you get down to if you get down to 249

00:47:15   and 199 you know how much of a margin is

00:47:18   that going to be can they really make

00:47:20   these things for a hundred bucks can

00:47:22   make them for a hundred and thirty bucks

00:47:24   uh all said and done I i wouldn't be

00:47:28   surprised especially if they can already

00:47:30   make an ipod touch for one then you know

00:47:32   you know and and you know I i think that

00:47:35   you respect wise you know once the the

00:47:37   iFixit guys take one apart and once we

00:47:40   run benchmarks stuff on it you know it's

00:47:43   not going to be the the latest and

00:47:46   greatest system-on-a-chip it's not going

00:47:48   to have the retina display and i think

00:47:50   it's going to have you know like the the

00:47:52   equivalent system-on-a-chip is like the

00:47:53   iphone four maybe I don't know maybe the

00:47:56   for us but the 4 s's are a year old now

00:47:57   so that's cheaper

00:47:59   yeah ah yeah and I think that's that

00:48:01   whole Tim Cook angle on Apple is that

00:48:04   they they reuse these certain core

00:48:07   technologies in a way that they just

00:48:10   leverage the hell out of the economies

00:48:12   of scale right i mean i would love to

00:48:15   know what it costs them to make a 3gs

00:48:17   now like what it actually call it like

00:48:20   what would be the break-even price on an

00:48:23   iphone 3gs well so it's subsidized down

00:48:25   to zero but they said so what do they

00:48:27   actually sell it for like we can get an

00:48:29   unlocked one for is that 199 yeah

00:48:31   somebody told me that somebody just had

00:48:33   a story last week that in India they're

00:48:36   selling it as a prepaid device for 199

00:48:40   the equivalent of you know that once you

00:48:42   you know right that it's about 200 bucks

00:48:45   ok ok so that's interesting yeah yeah it

00:48:48   because it's you know along lines of an

00:48:49   ipad and ipod touch now yes right right

00:48:52   yeah yeah okay yeah i mean i think it

00:49:00   seems like this is this is going to

00:49:01   happen now there's been too many reports

00:49:02   out there right when there's this much

00:49:04   smoke around something it's you know

00:49:06   there's got to be something out there

00:49:07   that it's coming it's always possible of

00:49:09   course that apple would delay it at the

00:49:10   last second because of some issue may be

00:49:12   there maybe there's a supply issue like

00:49:15   you know who knows what can happen along

00:49:17   those lines but if they get this thing

00:49:18   out in time for the holidays

00:49:19   this could be you know the the greatest

00:49:22   selling holiday device that they've that

00:49:24   they've ever launched a you know a

00:49:26   holiday time right and i think it could

00:49:28   get it it could get silly real fast that

00:49:31   all the market share numbers consider

00:49:35   the tablet to be at its own category not

00:49:37   the pc right right i can I realized the

00:49:41   ipad is not a pc as we know it but i

00:49:42   think that it just shows that it's silly

00:49:44   in today's day 22 count pc sales as a

00:49:48   market you hurt you if you know don't

00:49:51   worry about whether it's a pcr just in

00:49:53   big in the category and say computing

00:49:54   devices mobile computing you know

00:49:57   yeah i totally agree this is the all

00:49:59   that matters is how people are using

00:50:01   computers on a daily basis and you know

00:50:04   the ipad / tablets are coming with a

00:50:08   vengeance now the next seven numbers are

00:50:10   going to be huge the kindle fire was big

00:50:12   for a bit and then it dropped off but

00:50:13   you know all indications are that Amazon

00:50:15   is getting ready to release another one

00:50:16   arm the other two things you know to

00:50:19   talk about is that so we got the nexus 7

00:50:22   and you've got the kindle fire now the

00:50:24   reports yesterday are that Amazon is

00:50:26   going to have a another device coming

00:50:29   out a refreshed a kindle fire but they

00:50:31   also have a 10 inch version and so

00:50:35   that's a you know that's going straight

00:50:37   on with the with the current ipad and

00:50:39   the other line of thinking is that

00:50:40   google called the nexus 7 x-7 because

00:50:43   they're going to have another sighs

00:50:45   device to to come out with down the road

00:50:47   to write DX is 10 or something right and

00:50:50   nexus 10 so what do you think about them

00:50:52   going directly after the ipad i mean

00:50:54   obviously no one made any inroads and

00:50:56   all this time these two year two plus

00:50:58   years

00:50:58   going after the ipad do you think that's

00:51:01   like a good way to get a foothold in the

00:51:03   door like with the nexus 7 doing well

00:51:04   then the nexus 10 does better as a

00:51:06   result of the nexus 7 doing well yeah i

00:51:09   think it could especially if it

00:51:10   continues to sell i think it's you know

00:51:12   I think it's the way to go and I think

00:51:13   the argument the argument for multiple

00:51:15   tablet sizes is exactly the same as the

00:51:17   argument for multiple laptop sizes the

00:51:20   different people have are willing to

00:51:21   make different trade-offs you know why

00:51:23   would somebody carry around a 15-inch

00:51:25   four and a half pound macbook pro right

00:51:28   when you know when i'm living at the

00:51:30   luxurious life with my little love you

00:51:32   know stack of paper weighs like macro

00:51:35   hair

00:51:35   well because some people are doing like

00:51:37   pro audio and video or some people just

00:51:39   like to have a big-screen everywhere

00:51:41   they go

00:51:41   you know yet i definitely think that I

00:51:44   think anybody who has any kind of

00:51:46   lasting success in the tablet market is

00:51:47   going to have a a some sort of range of

00:51:50   sizes and this and the surface is going

00:51:53   to be slightly bigger right it's like a

00:51:54   10.6 inch screen i think at least the

00:51:57   the initial version that that Microsoft

00:51:59   will be coming out with I don't think it

00:52:01   was quite that much bigger I think it

00:52:02   was but it was definitely 10-point

00:52:04   something something I was like 10.1

00:52:06   maybe it is ok but so it's slightly

00:52:08   larger so they're obviously you know not

00:52:11   not focusing at least at first on the

00:52:13   smaller tablet space and going rights

00:52:15   directly after the ipad space right and

00:52:17   and i think it gets back to your point

00:52:19   about people who are using tablets his

00:52:21   laptop replacement I mean that's clearly

00:52:23   examining explicitly what the surface is

00:52:26   aimed at right as we've seen with the

00:52:28   with the keyboard itself the keyboard

00:52:31   cover which you know I was pretty I

00:52:32   ripped apart uh pretty quickly just

00:52:35   because i think i think it's a silly

00:52:37   thing to do it where it's a built into

00:52:40   the device itself and i know it's in

00:52:41   it's an add-on I don't know are they

00:52:43   giving it to have they announced that

00:52:44   they're going to give it with the the

00:52:47   surface or if you have to buy it as a

00:52:48   separate add-on of the night I guess I

00:52:51   it must be a separate item because

00:52:52   there's two different ones

00:52:54   that's right ok you're right so that's

00:52:56   good ok because like I can rip apart is

00:52:58   like it just kinda you know moves the

00:53:01   mentality from like we're breaking new

00:53:02   ground in computing and we're moving on

00:53:04   from this pc world to instead we're

00:53:07   keeping the same you know the same ideas

00:53:09   of the pc world we're just kind of

00:53:11   making it look different

00:53:12   and there was a great uh that great

00:53:14   image of a laptop versus a surface where

00:53:17   you know the laptop has the-the-the

00:53:19   thick bottom and the thin screen versus

00:53:21   the surface with the thick screen and

00:53:23   the thin bottom for the the keyboard and

00:53:25   so that's what I kind of had a problem

00:53:26   with but i will say since I just a few

00:53:30   days ago I I happen to be an apple store

00:53:33   and I were a randomly decided to pick up

00:53:35   one of those logitech keyboard case

00:53:37   things for the ipad right that that

00:53:39   thing is great it's amazing i can type

00:53:42   just as well on that as I can on my

00:53:45   computer and I I i fully plan to the

00:53:47   next trip i'm taking taking a trip trip

00:53:49   in a few weeks just for a few days not

00:53:51   bring a laptop at all just gonna bring

00:53:52   the ipad which I probably would have

00:53:53   done anyway but now I don't have to

00:53:55   worry about a thing i mean i can send

00:53:57   any email and and type at full speed and

00:53:59   I recognize too that you know some

00:54:01   people are great at typing on the ipad

00:54:03   already with the with the the software

00:54:05   keyboard but you know for whatever

00:54:08   reason I was brought up in the world

00:54:10   where you learn how to type on a

00:54:11   keyboard and I'm significantly faster

00:54:12   doing it that way and so you know people

00:54:15   like me are are are going to be feel a

00:54:17   little bit more comfortable for the time

00:54:18   being at least using that keyboard and

00:54:20   so I'm a big fan of this logitech thing

00:54:22   and so the Microsoft Surface the cover

00:54:26   is starting to make quite a bit more

00:54:28   sense to me

00:54:29   right but I don't think though it's

00:54:30   exclusive to them i mean III just think

00:54:33   that the number of you know when and if

00:54:36   it turns out to be a good idea i mean

00:54:37   Apple just put a key boarded in the next

00:54:39   smart color

00:54:40   yeah yeah I you know and have it be like

00:54:42   Bluetooth or something like that right

00:54:44   there is something clever about the way

00:54:46   that they're drawing power over their

00:54:47   magnetic connection

00:54:49   yeah right because this logitech one

00:54:51   that I have has a is battery-powered

00:54:54   around and you have to recharge it up

00:54:58   and it is Bluetooth and it works with

00:55:00   the magnets though it does

00:55:02   oddly enough you know they say it works

00:55:03   fine with the 4gs because the art sorry

00:55:05   bill with it with the new iPad because

00:55:07   the new ipad is slightly thicker than

00:55:10   the the previous ipad i've attached to

00:55:13   both there's that you can definitely

00:55:14   tell that it's definitely more tuned for

00:55:16   the the last generation ipad 2 rather

00:55:19   than

00:55:19   because it's the magnet slightly slip a

00:55:22   little bit it's kind of weird thing but

00:55:23   yes so the the powering thing for the

00:55:27   surface keyboard is definitely an

00:55:29   interesting opponent and they also have

00:55:30   as much as a keyboard Dave Dave touch

00:55:32   elements to right where you can you have

00:55:34   like all a trackpad like thing right now

00:55:38   so you can use your mouse cursor that's

00:55:42   ridiculous pic microsoft I don't know

00:55:47   it's gonna be interesting with the rest

00:55:49   of the year is going to be fascinating

00:55:51   yeah i'd also someone before we get off

00:55:53   the subject i saw that the stories about

00:55:55   the the new kindle fires that are at

00:55:58   apparently imminent that there's five or

00:56:01   six sk use yeah i saw III my sense of

00:56:05   that is that they'll have two different

00:56:07   sizes so i had actually you know like a

00:56:09   year it was a little over a year ago

00:56:10   that i got my hands

00:56:12   ugly enough on a prototype of the kindle

00:56:14   fire before it was even named or

00:56:15   anything like that right i remember that

00:56:17   i remember in and it was my last my last

00:56:20   great scoop i was still at TechCrunch

00:56:21   and so I you know I talk to someone who

00:56:25   is telling me basically the entire you

00:56:27   know

00:56:27   product pipeline and everything and they

00:56:29   already had in the lab at that point a

00:56:31   10 inch version there were there were

00:56:33   issues they were having with it and that

00:56:35   they were going to delay it and I think

00:56:36   they also just wanted to see how the

00:56:38   kindle fire itself as the 7 inch version

00:56:40   would sell and so the plan was to

00:56:42   release it in q1 or q2 of this year

00:56:45   which obviously came in wins and they

00:56:46   didn't do it i think that they saw the

00:56:48   kindle fire had some issues it wasn't

00:56:50   getting great reviews and who knows they

00:56:52   may have had component problems as well

00:56:53   but so the tenant has always been in the

00:56:55   pipeline

00:56:56   I think with these multiple sku that

00:56:58   they're talking about now I think the

00:57:00   plan is still to do a seven inch and a

00:57:02   10 inch and they would just have

00:57:03   different varieties of them like they

00:57:05   would have one with more memory in it is

00:57:08   my sense of what they're going to do

00:57:09   with that right because the other thing

00:57:10   I thought mean I'm people with my I saw

00:57:12   a lot of speculation that meant that

00:57:13   they're going to come out in a whole

00:57:14   bunch of different size right but I

00:57:16   don't like I would expect two sizes

00:57:18   maybe even only maybe still even only

00:57:19   one size

00:57:20   yeah cuz you gotta remember like the

00:57:22   ipad 2 had 18 different sk use because

00:57:26   it had yeah all the different carriers

00:57:28   black-and-white three sizes

00:57:30   ah Wi-Fi only

00:57:33   verizon compatible AT&T compatible and

00:57:35   and the ipad 3 still has a I think 12

00:57:40   yeah it's you don't have to get a

00:57:42   different I don't know but there's a

00:57:44   good counting excuse doesn't doesn't

00:57:46   imply counting different sizes

00:57:48   it would be easy to have six different

00:57:49   sk use and just have to be you know

00:57:52   color and storage

00:57:55   yeah right and you know dark that I

00:57:58   doubt amazon which still very much

00:58:00   trying to figure out this market comes

00:58:01   out with us a 5 inches 6 inches set

00:58:04   right it seems a little bit of overkill

00:58:07   yeah well let me I was going to take a

00:58:10   second break here and thank our second

00:58:11   sponsor and I am super super excited

00:58:14   about having this this coming just

00:58:16   because I like having different types of

00:58:18   companies sponsor the show second

00:58:21   sponsors tonks coffee tea onx and they

00:58:27   sent me some coffee always first started

00:58:28   talking about their sponsorship and i

00:58:30   love it is absolutely great you pay them

00:58:34   for a subscription and it's just no

00:58:37   hassle you subscribe to tonks and every

00:58:40   two weeks

00:58:41   you just get fresh coffee in the mail

00:58:44   and they find coffee from top producers

00:58:49   all over the world literally

00:58:51   I they sent me stuff that sample pack

00:58:54   they sent me and stuff from Kenya and

00:58:57   another one thing from anyone from

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00:59:03   they've got a free trial right now so

00:59:06   you can just sign up and get a sample

00:59:08   and taste what all the fuss is about

00:59:11   I love everything about i like the name

00:59:13   honks I just like saying ln x i love

00:59:17   their branding they have a they have

00:59:18   sort of a brand it reminds me of the the

00:59:20   credits from dr. Strangelove this sort

00:59:23   of big tall like handwritten letter

00:59:25   style I even like they're copywriting

00:59:27   it's it is unpretentious yes you're

00:59:30   you're buying fancy top quality coffee

00:59:33   having us into the world but there is

00:59:36   the the language they used to describe

00:59:37   it i just love the copywriting it's very

00:59:39   very down-to-earth very very

00:59:40   straightforward

00:59:43   and the coffee itself is just terrific

00:59:47   take it from my pal Marco Arment Marco

00:59:50   Arment whose far more fussy about coffee

00:59:53   than I am

00:59:55   here's a quote from Marco Arment i have

00:59:58   a great Universal answer when it

00:59:58   a great Universal answer when it

01:00:00   for anyone asks me how to make great

01:00:01   coffee get a burger grinder get an

01:00:05   aeropress and subscribe to talks i

01:00:09   couldn't recommend them more highly it's

01:00:12   really really great stuff go to tonks

01:00:15   dot-org tion x.org and find out more

01:00:20   tonks coffee famously I'm telling you

01:00:24   right now if you want to be a success on

01:00:25   the internet you need you need three

01:00:26   things you need fussy way to make coffee

01:00:29   and talks is it just buying your beans

01:00:32   from Thomas along qualifies as fuzzy you

01:00:34   need a sodastream so you can / carbonate

01:00:36   your own water and really it there is no

01:00:41   step three you can coffee more uh OMG i

01:00:46   do i almost called you Marco

01:00:49   that would have been better been cool

01:00:51   flattered i never make my own now oddly

01:00:56   enough I don't know why I just never got

01:00:59   into that I feel like I've just never

01:01:01   had a good coffee maker and that's why I

01:01:03   don't do it i should get into that

01:01:05   because that you know God knows how much

01:01:06   money I waste at coffee shops on a daily

01:01:09   basis

01:01:10   I'm also a little weird though because I

01:01:12   don't really like hot coffee

01:01:14   I only like iced coffee and so you know

01:01:18   there's a little bit more of a process

01:01:19   in involved in doing that I mean you can

01:01:21   make it a night and put it in the fridge

01:01:22   and stuff like that which does seem more

01:01:24   but it does it takes planning and i

01:01:26   don't know i don't have yeah i actually

01:01:28   just I actually on that the talks

01:01:30   website they had a a a blog post about

01:01:33   making iced coffee

01:01:34   I really have to check that out that

01:01:36   could be interesting to but the big

01:01:38   problem for me is that it it's still you

01:01:39   can't just do it and have coffee 10

01:01:41   minutes later right mix work and not you

01:01:43   know for me it's it's way too i need the

01:01:47   instant gratification

01:01:49   yeah like all the sudden I need coffee

01:01:50   and and and i need a really really quick

01:01:54   it's awesome that you're getting coffee

01:01:56   sponsorships on the show you you're

01:01:58   moving up in the world here

01:01:59   good i can I do that I have to hear

01:02:01   about that right i mean i love have

01:02:03   sponsorships from apps i mean if you've

01:02:04   got a nap and you want to promote it get

01:02:06   attention and i would love you know

01:02:08   you're always it's obviously going to be

01:02:09   a huge source of sponsorship on a show

01:02:12   that you know that I'm hosting but yeah

01:02:13   I love the idea of of everything from

01:02:16   coffee suppliers to that you know the

01:02:22   the studio need guys with the little

01:02:24   love

01:02:24   cliff and the stylus and stuff like that

01:02:27   sponsoring the show to ya scrape so

01:02:30   mountain line so my online

01:02:33   yes it's coming out we can talk about

01:02:36   this under under embargo which is

01:02:38   certainly don't think I've ever tried to

01:02:39   do this I haven't bothered about

01:02:41   something done before it's legal but it

01:02:44   will be legal tomorrow to write it would

01:02:46   be you would be not eating well would it

01:02:49   would be against the embargo for us to

01:02:51   release this recording now and it would

01:02:52   be it'll be okay to record it in advance

01:02:54   and release it when it's not

01:02:56   yes says many people do and what you

01:03:00   know and not mine itself is sort of

01:03:02   interesting because while it shocked the

01:03:05   world it really did like no one had any

01:03:06   idea that it was coming it was a big

01:03:08   surprises first legitimate surprised

01:03:10   that no one had any inkling of that i

01:03:12   can remember in a long time when they

01:03:14   did it earlier this year and but now

01:03:18   it's been out in Developer Preview for a

01:03:19   while and because of all those uh

01:03:21   there's many sites out there

01:03:23   whoo-hoo-hoo get these these great tip

01:03:26   these great anonymous developer tipsters

01:03:29   who are willing to break their their

01:03:31   NDA's to you know leak this information

01:03:33   you know it sounds suspiciously like

01:03:35   some of these hipsters are actual

01:03:37   writers for some of these sites who are

01:03:38   breaking their own NDA's but we cannot

01:03:40   we cannot be sure of this but so

01:03:43   regardless of how it happens there's

01:03:45   just a lot of the infos already out

01:03:46   there so it's kind of it's always

01:03:47   fascinating to write a review after most

01:03:50   everyone knows who really cares about it

01:03:53   knows what what's coming you know right

01:03:56   and I think feature wise i mean Apple

01:03:58   has done the run through twice now I

01:04:01   mean you did it in February not publicly

01:04:03   mean that they you know they they

01:04:04   unveiled the website and listed the top

01:04:06   features and then they did the like a

01:04:09   whole third of the WWDC keynote was

01:04:11   devoted to mountain

01:04:12   and yah and as always i think that they

01:04:16   do a very good job of highlighting the

01:04:18   features that are the most universally

01:04:20   applicable right so just in terms of a

01:04:24   rundown and features i don't really have

01:04:26   that much to add

01:04:27   yeah i mean so i've been using it i've

01:04:31   been using the Developer Preview since

01:04:32   that initial developer preview and have

01:04:35   kinda you know I've had it I had it

01:04:36   first on just one machine and now I'm

01:04:39   actually running it on my on my main

01:04:42   imac and I'm running it on the retina

01:04:46   macbook pro that I have as well as a

01:04:48   macbook air and so it's you know I found

01:04:52   it to be by far stable enough at this

01:04:54   point obviously the gold master is out

01:04:56   and it will be out tomorrow in its full

01:04:58   form and it's great i mean on my is

01:05:02   sample specifically you know are there

01:05:04   any performance things you're talking

01:05:06   about because you know normally when a

01:05:07   new always comes out that's what people

01:05:08   talk about you know is their performance

01:05:10   gain or anything even with snow leopards

01:05:12   from leopard they talked about how it's

01:05:14   it's been kind of tailored and whittled

01:05:17   down to just it's it's essentials and

01:05:19   they made it much smaller but there

01:05:20   really is nothing like that i guess that

01:05:22   there the day at least want to say with

01:05:23   mountain lion though i have seen at

01:05:25   least on my three-year-old iMac which is

01:05:27   nearing the end of its life in that its

01:05:30   nearing the end of how much I'm willing

01:05:31   to put up with compared to how slow it

01:05:33   is compared to my other computers

01:05:35   it does seem to make it faster I don't

01:05:37   know what the reason for that is but it

01:05:38   definitely starts up faster i noticed

01:05:40   because I i've been using it non-stop

01:05:42   since the initial developer preview in

01:05:44   February on my 11-inch macbook air

01:05:48   ah yep and i have noticed especially the

01:05:51   last few bills especially since WWDC i

01:05:55   have noticed that waking from sleep is a

01:05:57   lot faster

01:05:58   yes yeah I've noticed that as well and I

01:06:01   asked them I i did ask Apple about that

01:06:04   because I didn't see them mention that

01:06:06   anywhere but i wanted to make sure that

01:06:07   i hadn't liked placebo affected my self

01:06:10   and convince you know I mean like

01:06:12   convince myself that it was no I think

01:06:13   some sleep faster and then the truth is

01:06:15   no we didn't touch that but they said no

01:06:16   they actually put a huge amount of

01:06:19   effort was actually well really big

01:06:21   engineering thing to to improve wake

01:06:24   from sleep times everything related to

01:06:26   yep well and they're doing one of the

01:06:29   new big features is that power nap thing

01:06:31   which i haven't actually tried yet so

01:06:32   it's a weird thing too because it only

01:06:34   works it doesn't work for example on on

01:06:37   my old imac it only works on uh i

01:06:41   believe the newer macbook airs and the

01:06:43   the retina macbook pro right I don't

01:06:45   even think it works on my macbook eric

01:06:47   is my macbook air is two years old yeah

01:06:49   I don't think it does either

01:06:50   I think it's only the newest versions

01:06:52   yeah starting well I I don't even I

01:06:54   don't think it's just the newest

01:06:56   versions that just came out and at WWDC

01:06:59   I think you're right it the one before

01:07:01   that

01:07:01   yeah the one where the 11-inch air got

01:07:04   the light up keyboard

01:07:06   yeah that's right yeah yep i have the

01:07:09   note is about that it's mid-2011 macbook

01:07:11   air yet numeric retina macbook pros and

01:07:14   none of the imax so right yeah

01:07:16   yep right but that's why i was unsure

01:07:18   whether i was seeing things by thinking

01:07:20   that Maya doesn't qualify for power nap

01:07:23   macbook air seems to be waking from

01:07:25   sleep even snappier like even getting

01:07:28   ever ever closer to the ideal of the iOS

01:07:31   instant wake from sleep

01:07:33   yep yep that's interesting

01:07:36   one of one of the features that I've

01:07:39   actually use quite a bit and has been

01:07:40   extremely helpful has been the airplane

01:07:42   mirroring uh of the the mac itself to an

01:07:45   apple TV

01:07:45   this came up the other day we are trying

01:07:47   to watch wimbledon and my girlfriend I'd

01:07:50   actually don't have cable and so we were

01:07:52   unable to watch it in a traditional

01:07:55   sense but it was streaming on espn3 i

01:07:59   believe and previously and it wasn't on

01:08:02   the the watch ESPN app on the iPad or or

01:08:05   iphone so you can do it that way but I

01:08:07   could watch it on a browser and just

01:08:09   stream my entire computer right right to

01:08:12   the apple TV and that was awesome

01:08:14   yeah now I yep

01:08:17   well I the other thing I've been doing a

01:08:19   big picture wise is that I i think it's

01:08:24   been a total success for Apple to get

01:08:26   away from these monolithic extravaganza

01:08:31   and OS updates and sort of focus on ones

01:08:36   that are maybe not as exciting but your

01:08:38   over a year are adding features and I

01:08:42   feel like by by by shooting for smaller

01:08:46   less extravaganza updates

01:08:49   ah it'sit's just it just seems like it's

01:08:53   a win for everybody i think it's easier

01:08:54   on their engineering I think it's easier

01:08:57   to hit the ship dates and I think it's a

01:09:00   lot less eye for users who are updating

01:09:05   to each new version as they come along

01:09:06   there's a lot fewer chances for them to

01:09:11   to feel like wow this is too much all

01:09:14   yeah right there's no there's basically

01:09:15   no learning curve from mountain from

01:09:18   Lyon to mount line there's new

01:09:20   notification center which is awesome

01:09:22   it's probably my favorite feature of it

01:09:23   but you know even that feels natural

01:09:25   especially if you've used iOS devices

01:09:27   before you know they've done a good job

01:09:29   I think making the making it's very very

01:09:33   easy transition and it's great the fact

01:09:36   that you can upload update from Snow

01:09:38   Leopard right to mountain lion as well

01:09:40   so if you happen to skip line for

01:09:41   whatever reason now you can pay $19

01:09:44   instead of was it before was a 29 for

01:09:46   lion when I can ya so now you can pay

01:09:49   even less and get upgraded to the newer

01:09:50   version i do think like what you're

01:09:52   talking about you know kind of the focus

01:09:53   on the smaller updates and everything I

01:09:56   totally agree with that but i think you

01:09:58   know there's a potential for some small

01:10:01   backlash just because of the fact that

01:10:02   Windows 8 is coming out this fall and

01:10:05   you know they'll say you know that you

01:10:07   know you'll see stories that a Windows 8

01:10:09   is a major upgrade whereas you know

01:10:11   Apple has only been you know kind of

01:10:13   tinkering small with small little things

01:10:15   here and there right

01:10:16   you know Microsoft has been really

01:10:18   focusing on going after their core

01:10:21   audience and and improving things for

01:10:23   them

01:10:23   yeah i'll know there's you know the the

01:10:25   i could probably right

01:10:27   hey Zeus Diaz piece for getting that

01:10:30   right here you know that up now but it

01:10:34   is to me it is a super just super sharp

01:10:38   contrast with Microsoft and Apple in

01:10:40   multiple ways we're on the one front

01:10:44   windows 8 is a radical interface change

01:10:48   yep I mean it's easily i mean really no

01:10:50   hyperbole involved the biggest interface

01:10:52   change from one version to the next in

01:10:55   in Windows history

01:10:57   yep uh and you know mountain lion is

01:11:02   absolutely the opposite of that I think

01:11:04   you know most users if you set them down

01:11:07   in front of line or mountain lion would

01:11:08   have to poke around a bit before they

01:11:10   figure out which is which

01:11:11   my stay at a glance easiest way is

01:11:13   probably just look for notification

01:11:15   center up in the upper right-hand corner

01:11:17   Notification Center and the slightly

01:11:19   white tray for the that the absent on

01:11:23   male oh yeah for the dog that glass doc

01:11:26   is that is slightly more

01:11:28   ah so you know it is a refinement I mean

01:11:31   there's definitely I think it's a good

01:11:33   question what do you get for your $19 or

01:11:35   your 20 bucks huh yeah i think there's

01:11:37   definitely there but it certainly is a

01:11:39   lot less than than windows 8 and on the

01:11:43   other side it's also in sharp contrast

01:11:45   to microsoft microsoft has gone with

01:11:48   this I what your mg so i'll go with that

01:11:51   I'll go with the Lord of the Rings

01:11:52   analogy this 10 s22 rules all right I 10

01:11:57   s that is meant for everything from

01:11:59   phones to desktop computers and apple is

01:12:04   very clearly in adamantly sticking to

01:12:06   this we've got shared technologies like

01:12:10   iCloud and you know the names of these

01:12:13   apps and and there's certainly some

01:12:17   similarities that they're you know the

01:12:18   whole back to the mac thing but it is

01:12:21   two different os's one geared for touch

01:12:24   devices and one geared for keyboard and

01:12:28   pointer devices

01:12:29   yes I also but I feel like I totally

01:12:33   agree with that again but i think you

01:12:36   know with things like notes and were and

01:12:38   reminders now you know those are

01:12:40   straight-up ports to a new screen size

01:12:45   basically right arm and in a new way of

01:12:47   interaction with mouse but it does feel

01:12:50   like you know if they do two more

01:12:52   iterations let's save OS 10 or you know

01:12:54   if they sit k-state always tended OS 11

01:12:57   who knows but if they do two more

01:12:59   iterations of OS 10 I feel like we're

01:13:01   going to get a lot of of kinda overlap

01:13:04   between the two of us

01:13:05   and it just becomes that the mac is now

01:13:08   like the you know the kind of the

01:13:11   version of all your apps that you're

01:13:14   used to that that are just being used on

01:13:16   a bigger device that doesn't sell as

01:13:18   well as an iOS device that remark yeah

01:13:21   and that that's a that's interesting

01:13:24   thing I think you know at first

01:13:26   uh I you know I think a lot of people

01:13:28   are skeptical is bringing some of these

01:13:30   iOS ideas and applications to the mac

01:13:34   environment but now it's starting to

01:13:36   make a lot of sense to people i think

01:13:37   and that kind of leads into what i think

01:13:39   will be the most by far controversial

01:13:41   feature of a mountain lion which is the

01:13:44   gatekeeper stuff because I've already

01:13:46   run into a couple issues where I've

01:13:48   tried to download a application over the

01:13:51   web and I just had the default setting

01:13:54   on when i install the mountain lion and

01:13:56   so I could do it I had to go into my

01:13:57   settings and switch it so that because

01:14:00   no one right now Apple isn't a certified

01:14:03   developers just yet for gatekeeper and

01:14:06   so none of them are under that thing

01:14:07   presumably most of the big ones will i

01:14:09   know they told me that adobe is already

01:14:11   is already on board for that so that's

01:14:13   it that's a huge one for them but for

01:14:15   everyone else you know you will be

01:14:17   blocked from downloading uh inner

01:14:19   internet applications without removing

01:14:23   that thing at first without removing the

01:14:25   the default settings you can still do it

01:14:27   you know don't freak anyone out here of

01:14:29   course you can still do you can download

01:14:30   whatever you want but by default you

01:14:31   will have to change that setting

01:14:33   yeah i guess that probably will be the

01:14:35   most controversial change because you

01:14:38   know it sounds perfect on paper but in

01:14:41   practice yes it is it is sort of it

01:14:46   feels like you're being told to just

01:14:48   told to just stick to the appstore yeah

01:14:51   and how will how parents do you know

01:14:53   like will even know where to go you know

01:14:55   they'd guide you pretty well how to do

01:14:57   it but it's it's not as seamless as you

01:15:00   might think you know i can imagine for

01:15:02   someone who's not really clear on how to

01:15:05   guide you know make their way through

01:15:06   the settings of OS 10 right and i

01:15:09   wondered too with it in the first couple

01:15:12   of months i think that there's going to

01:15:13   be a lot more reasons for people to to

01:15:16   revert that to change that setting too

01:15:18   the more liberal ok allow apps to run

01:15:21   from anywhere even if they're not signed

01:15:23   right all right because there's going to

01:15:25   be so many apps that haven't been

01:15:26   updated yet

01:15:28   yes and once people make that change

01:15:29   their never did

01:15:31   that's the sort of thing you've sort of

01:15:32   set it and forget it and you're not

01:15:33   going to go back and you're not going to

01:15:35   get the advantages of gatekeeper like

01:15:37   yeah i think it's going to take a year

01:15:40   or two and and people getting wait till

01:15:43   you get your next Mac and then you leave

01:15:45   that setting on you know like I feel

01:15:47   like a year from now it'll be a lot

01:15:49   easier to to live with gatekeeper

01:15:53   blocking anything that's at least not

01:15:54   signed than it is now like I had to turn

01:15:57   it off there was no way to you I just I

01:16:02   couldn't last that long

01:16:03   using only the built-in apps right i

01:16:05   think in that way it's sort of similar

01:16:07   to the popup blockers built into

01:16:09   browsers you know when they first came

01:16:11   out it's like you had to keep turning it

01:16:12   off because there were so many sites

01:16:13   that needed a pop up for whatever reason

01:16:16   to login or something like that but over

01:16:18   time it end up being a very good thing

01:16:20   because it just basically killed the

01:16:21   pop-up market that's actually a perfect

01:16:23   i think that's a really good analogy i

01:16:24   did a lot like that yeah yeah so that's

01:16:29   so that's a great feature but it will be

01:16:31   controversial to begin with another

01:16:33   thing is so you just talked to apple

01:16:37   right you didn't did they send you a

01:16:38   build a specific build of of mountain

01:16:42   lion that's a did they send you the one

01:16:44   that's through the mac app store now

01:16:47   ok so there's there's this weird thing

01:16:50   going on where they have facebook

01:16:53   integration write like this is coming

01:16:54   and they've already announced that it's

01:16:55   coming around but it's not coming till

01:16:57   the fall right and it's nothing it's not

01:16:59   really clear why that is because so they

01:17:01   gave me a demo you know a a retina uh

01:17:04   macbook pro with the new version of

01:17:07   mountain lion on it but I noticed they

01:17:10   also give me a code to download version

01:17:11   for another computer so i could test it

01:17:13   on all my machines on the ones i

01:17:16   downloaded it does not have the facebook

01:17:18   integration but on the one they gave me

01:17:19   it does and they told me specifically

01:17:22   that it would be a little bit different

01:17:23   because it has the facebook integration

01:17:25   I don't know what the holdup is like

01:17:26   because it's ready to go it might only

01:17:28   it is ready to go i think it's i think

01:17:30   that I i I'm I'm / I don't know

01:17:32   this for a fact my impression is that

01:17:33   it's made its dull beta quality and it's

01:17:36   it's there's bugs in it better that it's

01:17:39   not set yet you have to get it the other

01:17:41   way you can get it is if you have an ADC

01:17:43   account it's a separate download from

01:17:46   the GM yeah so if you go to that the mac

01:17:50   developer page and you login with your

01:17:52   ADC credentials there's a download

01:17:54   download the GM build of mountain line a

01:17:57   few a few links down there's download

01:17:59   the facebook development package uh ok

01:18:03   you're right then okay that makes sense

01:18:05   because i was wondering if it was like

01:18:06   maybe they signed a deal with facebook

01:18:08   where they couldn't technically included

01:18:10   until they include facebook within iOS

01:18:12   officially you know as a package deal or

01:18:14   something and so since that won't be out

01:18:16   till the fall with ios6 maybe they

01:18:17   couldn't do this integration with

01:18:20   mountain line but that makes more sense

01:18:21   especially well it works on the front

01:18:24   end for users because it's in the

01:18:26   Notification Center for example we could

01:18:28   set a facebook facebook status message

01:18:30   right from there just like you can with

01:18:31   the tweet button now it makes more sense

01:18:34   that developers might be is having some

01:18:36   you know bugs are issues that they have

01:18:38   to kind of work through right i think

01:18:42   the other room very interesting and it

01:18:45   it's obviously something that's

01:18:46   something everybody's gonna notice it's

01:18:47   not a detail is the iCloud document

01:18:50   storage

01:18:51   yes and yeah I I i think that it's it

01:18:57   i'm really happy with the way that

01:18:58   Apple's done this and clearly the way

01:19:00   that mountain lion wants you to use

01:19:03   these apps is to store your stuff in

01:19:05   iCloud like that's that is what Apple

01:19:09   wants you to do apple things that's the

01:19:10   future of storage and sinking and stuff

01:19:15   like that right and it's a huge

01:19:17   difference from the way the mac has

01:19:19   always work the way the mac was created

01:19:22   was with this idea that the file system

01:19:23   is your foundation that's the better you

01:19:26   start you start by looking at the your

01:19:29   desktop and on your desktop our volumes

01:19:31   and you go into these volumes and you

01:19:32   know where things are you know where the

01:19:35   document is it's in this folder here you

01:19:38   start with the finder

01:19:39   yep and then you open the document and

01:19:42   the new way the wood the iCloud way

01:19:44   is just like iOS where the documents are

01:19:48   conceptually in the app yeah when you

01:19:52   want to open a text edit document you

01:19:54   don't go to the finder you go to text

01:19:56   edit and it in text at it

01:19:58   yep to the point where I brought this up

01:20:02   with them if you have a PDF that that

01:20:04   was created in a certain maps a like

01:20:06   adobe acrobat or something like that it

01:20:09   will show up in there but you would have

01:20:11   to it wouldn't show up by default in

01:20:13   something like preview you would have to

01:20:15   you could there's a way to do it where

01:20:17   you can dig for it you know and find it

01:20:18   in the file system but by default it's

01:20:20   not there eight lives in whatever app it

01:20:22   was created and but what I like about

01:20:26   the way apples done this is they made it

01:20:28   easy and it's clear that that's the way

01:20:30   they want you to do it and I think it's

01:20:31   the way that most people who'd sitting

01:20:34   down from the mountain line first time

01:20:36   they're gonna I think they're going to

01:20:37   use it and I think they're gonna really

01:20:38   like it but if you don't want to use it

01:20:41   if you want to keep storing your stuff

01:20:43   the same way you always have you want to

01:20:45   use dropbox instead of iCloud or you

01:20:48   just want to keep your documents with

01:20:50   you know for privacy reasons you don't

01:20:51   want him going anywhere to the cloud you

01:20:53   only want them on your own hard drive

01:20:54   I it's just one tab over in the open

01:20:57   dialog box and it is the traditional

01:21:00   here's you know store wherever you want

01:21:02   interface and if you want to do you know

01:21:04   get to them through the finder you can

01:21:06   do it

01:21:07   yeah that that will be a little

01:21:09   controversial though as well I just

01:21:11   because because it is one more click to

01:21:13   be able to do it that way and they're

01:21:14   trying to change it and I think that's

01:21:16   where they have to do it and i think

01:21:16   that the benefits of it far outweigh

01:21:20   what what the backlash will be because

01:21:22   now presuming you have at least one iOS

01:21:25   device like this the seamlessness at

01:21:27   which will work is awesome i mean you

01:21:29   know everyone seemed to demo now where

01:21:31   you can edit something on your mac and

01:21:33   it will change in almost real time on a

01:21:36   I iOS device if you're doing that and in

01:21:39   terms of you know getting like a PDF

01:21:41   from one app to another you can still

01:21:43   use drag-and-drop yes right i mean and

01:21:46   so there's you know you think like will

01:21:48   can't I just drag it from here to the

01:21:50   and you know let it works so I yep

01:21:54   yeah i think that they've managed this

01:21:57   transition very well

01:21:58   because there's there's the way they

01:21:59   want you to use it they're not pushing

01:22:01   you there are enticing you to go there

01:22:04   on your own

01:22:05   yeah and i think it that the fear people

01:22:07   had was that Apple is going to push

01:22:10   people to do that and it's you know you

01:22:13   can argue that did with some of the

01:22:15   policies with all of this stuff put

01:22:17   together with gatekeeper and with the

01:22:19   sandboxing restrictions in the app store

01:22:21   and the fact that only app store apps

01:22:23   get iCloud access that you know that

01:22:27   there are enticing you heavily enough

01:22:28   that maybe it counts as pushing or that

01:22:30   they've tilted the floor in that

01:22:31   direction but they're not forcing you to

01:22:33   do that and I really really truly

01:22:34   believe that they're not going to do

01:22:36   that that's not you know the next major

01:22:38   version of Mac os10 is not going to be

01:22:41   app store only right I think gatekeeper

01:22:44   is there you know that's their solution

01:22:47   long-term to bringing the advantages of

01:22:50   two of the app store to all apps right i

01:22:53   think that they're doing at the exact

01:22:54   right way which is that the they're

01:22:56   playing up the advantages the appstore

01:22:58   separately from apps themselves meaning

01:23:01   that if you want to do the app store

01:23:02   like yes you'll have to you'll have to

01:23:04   take a hit if you have a paid app but

01:23:06   you're also getting access to Game

01:23:08   Center you're getting access to the

01:23:11   iCloud integration so they're playing up

01:23:14   like the advantages doing it but not

01:23:15   making you do it necessarily right so

01:23:18   that's you know you you lead with a

01:23:20   carrot not with the stick in that regard

01:23:22   which is smart

01:23:23   uh the two the two other things i had

01:23:27   like I think there's there's a lot of

01:23:29   one quick one which kind of date brings

01:23:32   back to what we were talking about the

01:23:33   very beginning with a with marissa meyer

01:23:35   is a it's fascinating that the built-in

01:23:38   sharing in in mountain-lion includes

01:23:41   includes both vimeo and flickr but it

01:23:45   does include youtube even though youtube

01:23:47   is like you know one of the standard

01:23:49   apps on iOS and and apple is obviously

01:23:52   had to deal with google and that for the

01:23:53   past and that's the by far the biggest

01:23:55   video sharing site they have they have

01:23:57   vimeo but no YouTube I'd you know what i

01:24:00   noticed that i remember noting that at

01:24:02   the keynote I know my notes from the

01:24:03   WWDC keynote had that and i forgot to

01:24:08   die I hadn't really thought about that

01:24:09   sense but I remember thinking like at

01:24:11   the keynote

01:24:12   is that it or is that like they're still

01:24:14   in negotiation and it's not in there for

01:24:17   sure and yeah and Emilio is so that's

01:24:21   pretty fascinating and flickers still

01:24:22   there

01:24:22   flickr you know has been integrated into

01:24:24   our things like iphoto for now Apple TV

01:24:28   and apple TV right yeah and so it's

01:24:31   still there so they're still giving a

01:24:32   yahoo and flickered that love which is

01:24:35   nice

01:24:36   hopefully they get rejuvenated a bit the

01:24:38   other a really big thing i kinda want to

01:24:41   talk about was a safari itself so i know

01:24:44   right i presume that you're a big safari

01:24:47   user i am and i'm not i use chrome x

01:24:52   pretty much exclusively except I've made

01:24:55   exceptions for when the retina macbook

01:24:57   pro came out because chrome was just

01:25:00   looked god-awful because i wasn't

01:25:02   updated with the retina graphics yet

01:25:04   right even the font even a font

01:25:06   rendering wasn't yeah was awful it was

01:25:08   all wrong it was wrong to and twitter

01:25:09   for it's still wrong and twitter for

01:25:10   Makka know if they'll ever fix that it

01:25:12   was wrong and sparrows wrong a few other

01:25:13   things fixing sparrow but so they they

01:25:16   have since fixed it sort of in the

01:25:18   canary build which is the early build of

01:25:20   of chrome but it's still not stable

01:25:23   enough so i still use safari when im

01:25:24   using the the retina macbook pro but

01:25:27   i've been using it with the with the

01:25:29   mountain lion release I still I still

01:25:32   have a big problem with safari I know

01:25:34   that they say you know they gave me the

01:25:36   stats that according to sunspider

01:25:38   javascript test safari is the fastest

01:25:40   browser now compared to i think was

01:25:42   chrome 19 or whatever the last version

01:25:43   was I still find it to be slower and

01:25:47   just the smallest little things that I

01:25:49   do including you know one is of course

01:25:51   using Gmail which makes some sense that

01:25:53   google is able to optimize gmail for for

01:25:55   chrome better than they could for safari

01:25:57   or you know who knows that's on purpose

01:25:59   or if this is just because they have

01:26:00   access to that team directly but i still

01:26:04   have a problem with using safari as my

01:26:06   main browser and the only thing that

01:26:08   I've noticed that's pretty buggy in

01:26:09   mountain line is Safari itself i'm

01:26:11   having rendering issues are you noticing

01:26:13   no i'm not i don't know why that is just

01:26:17   certain sites seem to I'll get it I'll

01:26:19   get the thing where i scroll down and

01:26:20   then all of a sudden part of the page

01:26:21   like a square of it is white

01:26:23   one of those situations i don't know

01:26:27   what I could probably switch to chrome

01:26:29   pretty easily although I don't really

01:26:32   like Chrome on iOS as much i think they

01:26:35   did a very nice job and I can see how

01:26:37   some people would really like it I mean

01:26:39   one of the one day when there was all

01:26:41   that talk and I know you had it early

01:26:43   that they were working on Chrome for iOS

01:26:45   right uh which would have to to comply

01:26:49   with the appstore rules use the system's

01:26:51   version of WebKit right i remember

01:26:53   thinking what's the point then if it's

01:26:55   really just a rectangle with WebKit why

01:26:57   even bother and I well I thinking

01:27:00   thinking is is one of the things that

01:27:02   people love the most

01:27:03   uh which I care about a little bit i I'm

01:27:06   used to the omni bar which is which they

01:27:08   oddly added to safari in OS 10 rights

01:27:12   they have them now where you can either

01:27:13   search or type the URL and but they

01:27:14   don't have it in even at iOS 6 right

01:27:17   safari yeah I was

01:27:19   that's interesting it I and i'm not

01:27:21   quite sure what the logic is there

01:27:23   because there's more room for a second

01:27:25   bar on the matter yeah my only thought

01:27:28   is that it's easier to touch you know a

01:27:31   second input than it is to kind of

01:27:33   Dragon mouse up somewhere and try maybe

01:27:35   but i'm not sure otherwise I just hold

01:27:39   that thought for a second we'll get back

01:27:41   to that but another little given the

01:27:44   knowledge to google changing iOS 6 is

01:27:47   that that search field in ios6 no longer

01:27:50   no longer says google search search the

01:27:54   web for something serious

01:27:55   yep yep that's right that's another

01:27:57   thing that someone else brought up to me

01:27:59   that maybe they do it in iOS because

01:28:03   they want people to go to the sites

01:28:07   directly rather than using google which

01:28:09   has become almost the default for a lot

01:28:11   of people to find any site you know but

01:28:13   then it still doesn't make sense why

01:28:14   they would do it in OS 10 go the other

01:28:17   way I i don't know i will say this with

01:28:19   when it comes to Chrome vs safari

01:28:21   especially on the Mac I I could switch

01:28:23   to chrome very easily and the times that

01:28:24   I've used it i like I I can't even

01:28:26   remember off the top of my head why the

01:28:28   last time I tried it as my daily browser

01:28:31   i switched back

01:28:32   yep but it's very close to me and I do

01:28:34   think and I think the best thing about

01:28:36   it is to me

01:28:36   does feel faster yeah I just at a

01:28:41   technical level there's a big big

01:28:43   fundamental difference between chrome

01:28:45   and safari which is that chrome breaks

01:28:49   off each tab into its own process so you

01:28:52   have 20 tabs there's 20 chrome rendering

01:28:55   processes and safari has two processes

01:28:59   one for the interface and a separate

01:29:02   process that just does the rendering now

01:29:06   that's a big security when either both

01:29:08   both ways give you the security when

01:29:10   where the rendering process which might

01:29:12   be exploited by bugs in JavaScript or

01:29:14   something like that is completely

01:29:16   sandboxed and doesn't have access to the

01:29:19   file system doesn't have access to all

01:29:21   sorts of stuff huge security went right

01:29:23   but i do think that at least to date the

01:29:28   chrome model of using many rendering

01:29:30   processes it especially I think the

01:29:34   reason that Safari get slowed down for

01:29:35   me is that I'm i'm such a hyperactive

01:29:37   reader that I end up with 20 30 tabs

01:29:41   open at a time right

01:29:42   I and that to me is when it really i see

01:29:44   the difference i don't really see a

01:29:45   difference in speed if I have one tab

01:29:47   open in each app it's when I have a

01:29:50   bunch open and I can't help but think

01:29:52   that a technical level it's it's gummed

01:29:55   up by only having one monolithic

01:29:57   rendering process and so why did why do

01:30:00   you think they do that why not just copy

01:30:02   what what chrome it

01:30:03   I honestly have no idea i mean that's I

01:30:06   just you know and I i hesitate to

01:30:08   speculate because I'm you know whatever

01:30:11   technical guesses I could make are you

01:30:13   know laughably ill ill informed compared

01:30:16   to you know the guys who are actually on

01:30:18   the WebKit team at apple right yeah the

01:30:22   they have done some nice things to make

01:30:24   it more compelling to use safari with

01:30:26   mountain lion in particular the the the

01:30:28   iCloud I tabs integration stuff so if

01:30:31   you use Safari on iOS which most

01:30:35   everyone does except for the few who use

01:30:37   chrome you can get transferred back and

01:30:40   forth quickly between your tabs that you

01:30:42   have open and that's a really nice

01:30:43   integration there's also that the reader

01:30:45   thing which i don't know how many people

01:30:47   use or don't use

01:30:49   it still seems kind of half-baked in my

01:30:51   mind but it's nice that they have it for

01:30:53   offline now if you want to do that so

01:30:54   you can you can take a bunch of articles

01:30:56   if you're going to be you know going to

01:30:59   an airport or whatever but you could

01:31:00   always do that with instapaper one of

01:31:02   the other services already and so they

01:31:06   do a nice job of of kind of unifying

01:31:09   that experience but it's still not quite

01:31:12   enough I think to get me using safari on

01:31:14   a regular basis just just solely because

01:31:17   of the speed thing and I'm for whatever

01:31:19   reason it's a silly aesthetic thing but

01:31:21   i'm like addicted to having pin tabs

01:31:23   where I have like four tabs that I pin

01:31:25   which are you know like gmail a twitter

01:31:29   and if few others wrote a technique is

01:31:32   one of them and because i just always

01:31:34   have those open and kind of shoved over

01:31:35   the side they're not in my face is

01:31:37   something because that you know there's

01:31:40   weird spacing issues with with safari

01:31:42   tabs i'm sure you've noticed this where

01:31:44   it's like certain versions of it and

01:31:46   i've been playing with you know it's

01:31:47   different nightly build and stuff

01:31:49   certain ones like when you open a new

01:31:50   tab will open it like the entire half of

01:31:53   however bigger window is and that will

01:31:54   be the new tab other versions do it as

01:31:57   like a fifth of it and they make like

01:31:59   these these small little differences and

01:32:01   i'm not sure what they're going for

01:32:02   their I just like the aesthetic better

01:32:04   yeah I don't like the way that with tabs

01:32:06   and so far enough you have two tabs in a

01:32:08   window they each get half the window

01:32:09   yeah right exactly because I a

01:32:11   statically just and I realized that the

01:32:14   idea there is that if the page title has

01:32:16   a long string then you see more you can

01:32:17   see the whole thing yeah but st

01:32:19   aesthetically it to me it doesn't it

01:32:21   doesn't look good

01:32:22   yeah I do actually like I'd like it

01:32:24   don't like the the non showing of

01:32:26   favicons which is a lot of sites just

01:32:28   have shitty ones and they're kinda ugly

01:32:30   and chrome shows those and safari

01:32:32   doesn't so it keeps it more pristine and

01:32:34   more focused on what the content is but

01:32:36   you know what some hands like Google

01:32:38   does it and actually kind of cool thing

01:32:40   with their fabric on for Gmail which is

01:32:42   that they give you a little unread count

01:32:44   on it when you know so if there's a if

01:32:47   there's to unread emails in there it'll

01:32:48   show up in the fabric on his little too

01:32:50   on the side of it

01:32:51   yeah I maybe I should give chrome

01:32:53   another shot I don't know it it might be

01:32:55   time I think one of the reasons i

01:32:56   switched the last time as I had a I had

01:32:59   a bookmarklet that didn't work

01:33:01   for me in chrome and i eventually

01:33:03   figured out that it was it was a bug in

01:33:07   the bookmarklet like it wasn't the

01:33:09   chrome didn't support it was i was so I

01:33:12   i probably should

01:33:14   that is a big problem with chrome for

01:33:15   iOS though by the way the bookmarklet

01:33:17   right not work at all right that's

01:33:19   really that's actually the deal breaker

01:33:20   for me I mean you just added from a

01:33:22   practical standpoint is is why i don't

01:33:25   use it but i understand that most people

01:33:27   don't you

01:33:27   most people don't use bookmarklets they

01:33:29   have no idea what they are and I do see

01:33:32   how the way that Chrome's interface for

01:33:34   iOS especially on the iphones designed

01:33:36   actually puts more emphasis on the

01:33:38   content

01:33:39   yes because i love it doesn't have both

01:33:44   the top and bottom bar

01:33:45   it just has a top bar yea which was

01:33:47   little jarring at first I thought it was

01:33:49   but it's actually it's pretty nice

01:33:51   the thing I love the most though and god

01:33:53   I wish safari for iOS with a would copy

01:33:56   this is just to be able to swipe without

01:33:58   zooming out you know like rather than

01:34:00   hitting the tab button you can just

01:34:01   swipe on the left or right and get to

01:34:03   the next tab

01:34:04   yeah that's genius and really is very

01:34:05   nice yeah so that's that's my favorite

01:34:08   thing and they did uh it kind of similar

01:34:11   they did a a new gesture in safari for

01:34:14   mountain lion which is that you could

01:34:16   pinch to zoom out and it gives you this

01:34:19   new tab view type thing that you can

01:34:22   switch between the the open tabs and

01:34:24   safari which is pretty slick i'm not

01:34:26   sure how how how good that is for people

01:34:29   who have tons of tabs open because

01:34:30   you'll just be flicking through them

01:34:31   forever but it's pretty nice little

01:34:33   element

01:34:34   yeah but the funny thing is there it

01:34:36   went to and i like it i think it's a

01:34:38   great feature but they are the tabs are

01:34:40   tabs sighs yes yes

01:34:43   like any interface where it really

01:34:45   doesn't matter there is your tabs i

01:34:47   bring them down to a small little sighs

01:34:49   yeah when you zoom in there you know

01:34:51   they're each one gets it equal share of

01:34:53   the tab bar

01:34:55   yeah they only look I guess bottom line

01:34:57   is that safaris tabs only look good when

01:34:59   you have at least 45 tabs and window

01:35:02   yep totally agree yep but other than

01:35:05   that I don't really have a lot more to

01:35:06   add about me I think it's a great

01:35:07   release it has been stable for me I

01:35:11   can't help but think that by reducing

01:35:12   the price to 1919

01:35:14   fine i think they're leaving money thing

01:35:15   apples leaving money on the table but i

01:35:17   think that they they really they're not

01:35:19   really in it for the money i mean i'm

01:35:21   sure right multiply the you know 50 50

01:35:25   million copies they'll eventually sell

01:35:26   by twenty bucks i mean it

01:35:28   they're gonna keep the hundred million

01:35:29   dollars or 200 million dollars whatever

01:35:31   it comes to but uh I mean that's not

01:35:33   that much money for apple

01:35:35   yeah the you know the when they when

01:35:38   they give these pitches about like what

01:35:40   mountain lions all about they bleed with

01:35:42   the the numbers you know those 66

01:35:44   million people or whatever using OS 10

01:35:46   numbers tripled i think they said in

01:35:48   five years and then they talk they start

01:35:51   to go and directly to like how they're

01:35:53   they're focused on district distributing

01:35:56   it digitally and they even told me this

01:35:57   time they're not going to do the USB key

01:35:59   thing that they did the last time

01:36:00   because you know some people just

01:36:01   couldn't comprehend how to do it three

01:36:03   of the mac app store right and so but

01:36:06   that's I you know that's a smart way to

01:36:09   do it and it led to these they said I

01:36:12   think forty forty percent of the install

01:36:14   base updated to lie in nine months which

01:36:16   doesn't sound like a lot compared to iOS

01:36:19   but it's huge compared to any other

01:36:21   desktop traditional desktop operating

01:36:23   system you know they give you though the

01:36:24   windows seven number that it took 26

01:36:26   months to hit that same milestone and

01:36:28   right and i think that you know it it

01:36:31   was I think that the old numbers were

01:36:33   largely at the fact that that prior to

01:36:36   Lyon most people just didn't update

01:36:38   their operating system till I got a new

01:36:40   computer right here just the mass-market

01:36:42   really just buys a computer and will the

01:36:46   will install hopefully you know whatever

01:36:47   software updates come over the air

01:36:49   security updates and stuff like that but

01:36:51   they don't when it comes time to do the

01:36:52   big update to the new major releases

01:36:55   have to pay for they don't do it and now

01:36:56   yeah now they are ya just getting forty

01:36:59   percent to do it in the night in nine

01:37:01   months because that's how long because i

01:37:03   really think that's a large part about

01:37:04   what the you know windows seven taking

01:37:06   twenty six months is I mean when you're

01:37:09   talking about twenty six months to hit

01:37:10   forty percent you're you're more at that

01:37:12   you know two-year period where people

01:37:14   get new computers every two or three

01:37:15   years

01:37:15   yes that's totally true that's probably

01:37:18   what drives the majority of that number

01:37:20   right and i really think you know so

01:37:22   with it like you said that the apple

01:37:24   says there's now 66 million installed

01:37:26   base from

01:37:26   which isn't users it's in its max right

01:37:29   and so like my family Mac might have

01:37:31   multiple users and you'd its kind of

01:37:32   hard to estimate users but yeah yeah you

01:37:35   know that the the if every single one of

01:37:37   them spent the 20 bucks to update to

01:37:40   mountain line it's just not that much

01:37:42   money from Apple's perspective clearly

01:37:44   this thing is is price low to encourage

01:37:47   people to update and it's uh it's

01:37:50   fascinating how that influenced

01:37:52   microsoft because now Windows 8 is is

01:37:55   how much I think it's is a $29 it's

01:37:57   something it's something obscenely low

01:38:00   compared to what it used to be with you

01:38:02   well over a hundred dollars right up and

01:38:04   it's so it feels of course like they've

01:38:06   been pressured to do that by what Apple

01:38:09   is doing the kind of set the bar for

01:38:11   what an OSI upgrade should be yeah and

01:38:14   they've also simplified it where they

01:38:16   don't have anywhere near as many

01:38:17   versions of windows to choose from right

01:38:20   they just decided to go with that

01:38:21   ridiculous RT name still for an apparent

01:38:24   reason but uh huh

01:38:25   but but what's uh what's most

01:38:28   interesting about microsoft dropping the

01:38:30   price significantly of windows which is

01:38:32   great for everyone great for consumers

01:38:33   of course and that's going to lead to a

01:38:35   lot more people upgrading to it i think

01:38:36   but it's also that's that's the core way

01:38:39   they make money i mean it's not the core

01:38:41   way because of OM still pay for how you

01:38:44   know the licensing fee to Microsoft but

01:38:46   it's still like a big part of the way

01:38:48   Microsoft makes money and they're taking

01:38:50   whatever it is a you know a fourth cut

01:38:53   right in for your email in theory Apple

01:38:56   could give it away free i mean i don't

01:38:58   know about the accounting III there

01:39:00   still might be some kind of right there

01:39:02   would be accounting practices that that

01:39:03   you couldn't do that literally but or

01:39:06   they could sell it for ridiculously low

01:39:08   price in theory they could sell it for

01:39:10   you know the dollar 99 or something

01:39:12   everything it wouldn't matter to apple

01:39:14   financially it wouldn't be there

01:39:16   wouldn't really be taking him in the

01:39:17   chin because and the whole reason for

01:39:19   that is that the only people who can buy

01:39:21   it are people who already paid a

01:39:23   thousand dollars or more for an apple

01:39:24   computer right whereas microsoft needs

01:39:27   that right and that's you know core part

01:39:30   of their business

01:39:30   so yeah i'm at i don't i I don't know if

01:39:34   the if the OEM relationship is any

01:39:36   different if they're charging the OMS

01:39:38   less per license because they're

01:39:39   charging

01:39:40   sumers left i assume not because that

01:39:42   would be a significant hit on their

01:39:44   business if they did that same cut for

01:39:47   the for the OEM vendors that they work

01:39:49   with i mean you're talking windows

01:39:51   revenues cutting by a fourth or well and

01:39:55   I think that the difference is that

01:39:56   they're pretty much pitching it as its

01:39:59   upgrade pricing only yeah that's true i

01:40:03   mean and I that is a question i don't

01:40:05   actually think I remember somebody asked

01:40:06   and I don't think we have the answer yet

01:40:07   is let's say you buy a bare-bones pc

01:40:11   that doesn't even ship with a version of

01:40:12   windows on it just a you know blank

01:40:14   motherboard and hard drive you'll be

01:40:16   able to take the $29 retail windows 8

01:40:19   thing and install windows on it or do

01:40:21   you have to start with some version of

01:40:23   windows you know that's always been a

01:40:25   tricky question i remember back in like

01:40:26   the nineties like what you know thinking

01:40:28   about that and I i want to say that at

01:40:30   least one version maybe was windows at

01:40:32   me or something like that allowed you to

01:40:35   install the operating system even though

01:40:37   it was the upgrade version and it wasn't

01:40:39   like touted or anything but there was a

01:40:41   way to do it or there might have been a

01:40:42   small little hack that you could you

01:40:44   know get some file on your computer that

01:40:46   made it think that you had you know

01:40:47   windows XP or something and then you

01:40:49   could uh windows 98 I mean and then you

01:40:52   could install windows and me on top of

01:40:54   that there was something like that but

01:40:55   as far as i know you you can't do that

01:40:58   or you should be able to do that because

01:40:59   I'd be stupid than you know from from

01:41:02   Microsoft perspective they want you to

01:41:03   of course by the the full version with

01:41:05   your right is the version that they

01:41:07   would sell the OEM is not some the only

01:41:09   ones are doing upgrades for users so

01:41:10   yeah anyway the bottom line i just don't

01:41:15   think mountain lions all that shape it's

01:41:18   not it is absolutely not are shaking in

01:41:20   the way that Windows 8 is and i think it

01:41:23   is I think it's a good thing for for Mac

01:41:25   users

01:41:26   yeah that just makes that makes

01:41:29   reviewing it interesting I mean you know

01:41:30   basin were both writing reviews today

01:41:32   and yeah but I don't know exactly how to

01:41:35   add a frame and I think you know your

01:41:36   framing it is correct and I don't like

01:41:41   to do you know I don't know how you you

01:41:42   come up coming do you do your

01:41:45   traditional review stuff i know that you

01:41:47   do it typically different than like say

01:41:49   you know the Verger and gadget does it

01:41:51   like especially with hardware but

01:41:53   it and I i try to do that too just

01:41:56   because i don't i don't like to go into

01:41:58   details about all the little uh all the

01:42:00   specs and everything because it just

01:42:01   matters less and less over time it seems

01:42:03   like but within with an OS upgrade like

01:42:05   this it's a tricky thing to approach

01:42:07   from a review perspective because it's

01:42:09   so similar to what lion is you know that

01:42:12   besides these core features

01:42:14   yeah that's the problem I'm having with

01:42:16   my reviews I edge style i like it i

01:42:18   think everybody who certainly everybody

01:42:20   like listens to the show and we'd during

01:42:21   fireball I think it's everybody's gonna

01:42:23   I think it's going to be a very popular

01:42:25   update and I think it's worth twenty

01:42:26   bucks but every every it's hard to write

01:42:29   the review though in a way that doesn't

01:42:30   come across as saying I don't know if

01:42:32   that you know there's not that much new

01:42:33   right right so you almost have to do it

01:42:37   as taking a step back and looking at the

01:42:39   broader perspective right which are

01:42:40   talking right now

01:42:41   yeah but anyway speaking of which we

01:42:43   should probably get to work on that

01:42:44   stuff

01:42:44   mg Siegler thank you very much for being

01:42:46   here really appreciate it of course

01:42:48   thanks for having me again let me just

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