The Incomparable

201: Democracy is Awful


00:00:00   this episode of the uncomfortable is [TS]

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00:00:21   your website incomparable number 301 [TS]

00:00:28   july 2014 [TS]

00:00:32   welcome back to the uncomfortable i'm [TS]

00:00:37   your host Jason L we are competing [TS]

00:00:39   another edition of our old movie club [TS]

00:00:41   and because this episode by my reckoning [TS]

00:00:44   is going to be released roughly on july [TS]

00:00:47   the fourth of 2014 [TS]

00:00:49   i have explained or non-us listeners [TS]

00:00:53   july 4th over important holiday in the [TS]

00:00:54   United States it is Independence Day and [TS]

00:00:57   as a result of that incredible [TS]

00:00:59   confluence old movie club is has made it [TS]

00:01:02   a a rash and ill informed decision to [TS]

00:01:05   discuss the film is 1776 in 1972 musical [TS]

00:01:11   and Yankee Doodle Dandy a 1942 American [TS]

00:01:17   biographical musical so it's patriotic [TS]

00:01:19   musicals in the in in in our sights [TS]

00:01:24   oh god help us send help set it to [TS]

00:01:27   America anyway to join me on this [TS]

00:01:30   journey are a fine collection of people [TS]

00:01:32   who watch these two movies [TS]

00:01:34   Monty Ashley hello I USA USA all right [TS]

00:01:39   excellent work Andy not co hi andy i [TS]

00:01:43   have come to the conclusion that one [TS]

00:01:44   useless man is a disgrace that two are [TS]

00:01:47   called a law firm and that three or more [TS]

00:01:50   become a podcast that's right well we [TS]

00:01:52   are cool incomparable men today David [TS]

00:01:56   laura is also out there hello mr. Snell [TS]

00:01:59   but mr. Snell the things I writer mainly [TS]

00:02:01   light extemporaneous so we're doing this [TS]

00:02:03   tonight huh [TS]

00:02:03   apparently we are filling michael filen [TS]

00:02:07   for Michaels do your finest talk singing [TS]

00:02:09   for us [TS]

00:02:10   yeah that that will not happen if it's [TS]

00:02:13   not a little little bit paper into this [TS]

00:02:15   bullet solo and Steve let's joins us as [TS]

00:02:19   well hi Steve hi Jason [TS]

00:02:22   god what a bastardly bunch we are huh [TS]

00:02:24   yeah yeah and Glenn Fleischman is also [TS]

00:02:27   out there somewhere hovering is several [TS]

00:02:30   miles above the surface of the earth [TS]

00:02:32   good god mr. Snell I will not be [TS]

00:02:35   silenced [TS]

00:02:36   sit down Glenn sit down all right we're [TS]

00:02:40   a Phil you are usually our guide to the [TS]

00:02:42   old movie club so I asked you help you [TS]

00:02:44   don't don't pin this on me [TS]

00:02:46   help me out here so yeah I had some [TS]

00:02:51   suggestions for movies and they were [TS]

00:02:53   yeah i think very good suggestions and I [TS]

00:02:56   jokingly said and this is why you should [TS]

00:02:58   never ever ever joke about anything and [TS]

00:03:01   and go through life death get definitely [TS]

00:03:03   serious i said well we could do 1776 but [TS]

00:03:06   a little mostly be me and not go singing [TS]

00:03:08   at each other for the better part of an [TS]

00:03:10   hour [TS]

00:03:11   can't wait for that i'm hoping that'll [TS]

00:03:13   carry assets that's a very ad that's a [TS]

00:03:15   very advertiser friendly format should i [TS]

00:03:17   say so you're the one who started the [TS]

00:03:19   singing thing yeah she and so so yes I I [TS]

00:03:27   i have the original sin as it were but [TS]

00:03:29   but um Jason playing Adam to my Eve huh [TS]

00:03:34   I don't like where this metaphor is [TS]

00:03:36   going anyhow Jason tweeted haha we could [TS]

00:03:40   do 1776 and then the masses [TS]

00:03:43   yes an avalanche of people on Twitter an [TS]

00:03:45   avalanche of people uh the popular will [TS]

00:03:48   democracy if you withhold suggested that [TS]

00:03:53   yes you have to do 1776 and I think this [TS]

00:03:56   proves a very important point here on [TS]

00:03:58   the fourth of July is that democracy is [TS]

00:04:01   awful [TS]

00:04:02   what we need is a benevolent [TS]

00:04:05   dictatorship [TS]

00:04:07   yeah where some guy says hey let's do [TS]

00:04:10   these good movies in snow [TS]

00:04:12   now i'm gonna say we did 200 episodes [TS]

00:04:13   without democracy and we do one episode [TS]

00:04:16   with democracy and look what happened [TS]

00:04:18   and it crumbles and so then we decided [TS]

00:04:23   well you gotta have a theme so what what [TS]

00:04:26   movie can we do in there there aren't [TS]

00:04:27   that many really good patriotic choices [TS]

00:04:30   for a movie perhaps we can debate that [TS]

00:04:32   later on in the podcast but we settle on [TS]

00:04:35   hey let's go for another musical let's [TS]

00:04:36   do Yankee Doodle Dandy a movie which I [TS]

00:04:38   had not in fact scene until just a [TS]

00:04:40   little bit ago so i think we should say [TS]

00:04:42   we tried very hard to figure out what [TS]

00:04:44   exactly are our movie would be that we [TS]

00:04:46   would pair with 1776 and there are lots [TS]

00:04:50   of different discussions about various [TS]

00:04:52   patriotic movies movies that people [TS]

00:04:53   think of is really to the fourth of July [TS]

00:04:55   but aren't patriotic in any sort of way [TS]

00:04:57   like born on the fourth of July [TS]

00:04:59   and somehow Yankee Doodle Dandy came up [TS]

00:05:01   and it was it's a musical and it's sort [TS]

00:05:03   of patriotic and we just thought even [TS]

00:05:06   though we hadn't seen it [TS]

00:05:07   sure let's do that my favorite [TS]

00:05:09   suggestion from Twitter was that we [TS]

00:05:10   watched the john adams miniseries which [TS]

00:05:12   one [TS]

00:05:13   well fine miniseries is 18 10 episodes [TS]

00:05:16   yeah it's a lot of work significant [TS]

00:05:18   significant investment of time just [TS]

00:05:20   slightly slightly shorter than 1776 that [TS]

00:05:24   stars my friend Paul Giamatti do so and [TS]

00:05:28   he's quite good in it Lennon but far [TS]

00:05:30   less singing less thing he's gonna have [TS]

00:05:33   to actually haven't seen the next to see [TS]

00:05:34   it [TS]

00:05:34   yeah for next July 4th watchable of time [TS]

00:05:36   between now and then [TS]

00:05:37   yeah i recommend it not like these two [TS]

00:05:40   movies never gonna talk about for the [TS]

00:05:42   better part of an hour okay look so I'm [TS]

00:05:44   so I'm going to be the one to say that [TS]

00:05:46   1776 is a terrific musical and yankee [TS]

00:05:49   doodle dandy is certainly within at [TS]

00:05:51   least the middle of the bandwidth for [TS]

00:05:53   music male musicals of that period [TS]

00:05:55   I'm being I'm being cruel and I'm being [TS]

00:05:57   a jerk because that's my bike not [TS]

00:05:59   default setting for bit yeah it's my [TS]

00:06:01   yeah it's my thing it works for me but I [TS]

00:06:03   i will say the 1776 is a perfectly fine [TS]

00:06:06   musical aight aight i enjoy it i enjoy [TS]

00:06:10   it less each time I see it [TS]

00:06:12   oh I have to snow is because I pick out [TS]

00:06:14   the the flaws in the errors and and I [TS]

00:06:17   don't want to get too much into it and [TS]

00:06:19   be be a negative nelly it's a very fine [TS]

00:06:21   musical in the first time you see it [TS]

00:06:23   especially if you like me saw it as a as [TS]

00:06:26   a history loving middle schooler and you [TS]

00:06:29   turn and you turn it on and there's John [TS]

00:06:32   Adams singing and wow that's that's [TS]

00:06:34   unusual and there's the great line about [TS]

00:06:36   about that Ben Franklin has Howard to [TS]

00:06:39   silver play them don't worry John the [TS]

00:06:40   history books so clean it up a bit and [TS]

00:06:43   it it's a fun musical um and yankee [TS]

00:06:48   doodle dandy is also present [TS]

00:06:50   well I will say as somebody who's [TS]

00:06:52   historical knowledge pretty much stopped [TS]

00:06:54   around middle school because that's when [TS]

00:06:55   I stopped paying attention [TS]

00:06:57   I really quite enjoyed 1776 so yeah so [TS]

00:07:00   let's get into that we hours then [TS]

00:07:02   because i think that one will be the [TS]

00:07:03   will all I think sort of enjoy it to [TS]

00:07:06   varying degrees [TS]

00:07:09   this is the first time I've seen 1776 me [TS]

00:07:13   and I don't have markedly different [TS]

00:07:15   experience than the one kills as I [TS]

00:07:17   should have [TS]

00:07:18   why do you hate America Monty should i [TS]

00:07:20   summarize the plot Jason before we get [TS]

00:07:22   into it yes please please [TS]

00:07:24   ok the year is 1776 oh my god spoilers i [TS]

00:07:30   like to call this 13 angry small groups [TS]

00:07:32   of men get us to build this wall around [TS]

00:07:36   your heart so that no light can get into [TS]

00:07:38   it huh is it more of a maintenance thing [TS]

00:07:40   or is it like painting a bridge it just [TS]

00:07:42   never ends or begins [TS]

00:07:43   I think it's safer not to let light into [TS]

00:07:45   your heart may be my animal magnetism [TS]

00:07:48   there's a whole musical with puppets and [TS]

00:07:50   stuff about how Phil gradually built his [TS]

00:07:53   hardened wall around his heart so the [TS]

00:07:55   year is 1776 is what you're saying yes [TS]

00:07:58   the place America ok or or not quite [TS]

00:08:02   America just yet [TS]

00:08:03   it's Philadelphia and also dreams it's [TS]

00:08:06   like diehard in Congress and things [TS]

00:08:09   aren't things are not going well for the [TS]

00:08:11   rebel con colonies their their their [TS]

00:08:14   army is in disarray the the Congress is [TS]

00:08:17   fighting and John Adams is obnoxious and [TS]

00:08:20   disliked and trying trying mind you to [TS]

00:08:22   get everyone to vote for independence [TS]

00:08:23   this is something that 1776 has in [TS]

00:08:26   common with a job Adams miniseries by [TS]

00:08:28   the way that he's kind of unpleasant and [TS]

00:08:30   people don't like him [TS]

00:08:32   also with history also history would [TS]

00:08:33   confirm this is not a plot device i have [TS]

00:08:36   heard that um and and people who are [TS]

00:08:39   better red than me can can dispute this [TS]

00:08:41   but I I sort of think a lot of that has [TS]

00:08:43   been colored by his presidency where he [TS]

00:08:45   was not uh well liked [TS]

00:08:48   yes as it as it as a younger gentleman [TS]

00:08:52   he was far more respected and his is a [TS]

00:08:57   a personality traits were sort of [TS]

00:09:00   overlooked based upon his his brilliance [TS]

00:09:04   as a as a thinker and a lawyer and our [TS]

00:09:07   underwriter but yeah he was generally [TS]

00:09:10   dislike [TS]

00:09:10   well the alien Sedition Acts probably [TS]

00:09:12   have something to do with calling our [TS]

00:09:13   memory as well so that's that's that's [TS]

00:09:15   part of it [TS]

00:09:16   rrb horrible presidency you use a great [TS]

00:09:18   pre president great post president in [TS]

00:09:20   the office not so much but so but so [TS]

00:09:23   much of so much of what was talking [TS]

00:09:24   about is actually like directly from his [TS]

00:09:26   correspondence especially the obnoxious [TS]

00:09:28   and dislike line and I senior call from [TS]

00:09:30   the from the John Adams miniseries that [TS]

00:09:31   we could have watched instead he burnt a [TS]

00:09:35   lot he destroyed a lot of his personal [TS]

00:09:37   papers that might have been from happier [TS]

00:09:39   times and what survives is the the [TS]

00:09:43   embittered john adams he couldn't have [TS]

00:09:45   been hated that much you got the job [TS]

00:09:47   David McCullough 'he's book 1776 which [TS]

00:09:50   is not the novelization of the movie is [TS]

00:09:52   acting mean it kind of points out all [TS]

00:09:54   the things that they got horribly [TS]

00:09:56   horribly wrong or you know just sort of [TS]

00:09:59   smoothed over for the purposes of drama [TS]

00:10:01   but it is not exactly the most accurate [TS]

00:10:04   version but its history its historical [TS]

00:10:06   fiction [TS]

00:10:06   yeah it is it is it isn't not accurate [TS]

00:10:09   at all it and well for starters they [TS]

00:10:11   didn't sing constantly in the First [TS]

00:10:13   Continental Congress I hate to spoil it [TS]

00:10:15   for you [TS]

00:10:16   also also they probably don't have a [TS]

00:10:17   giant pad of paper with the document [TS]

00:10:20   number update on it and they're directly [TS]

00:10:22   tear off every single day [TS]

00:10:24   yeah where'd you get those printed up in [TS]

00:10:25   1776 anyway you got a guy he got it you [TS]

00:10:28   got it you got to have a guy but that [TS]

00:10:30   you can get them lets you get those from [TS]

00:10:32   you old hallmark store back vented that [TS]

00:10:35   was a weird spelling either but at least [TS]

00:10:37   at least one can say for 1776 that it [TS]

00:10:41   utilizes some actual legitimate source [TS]

00:10:43   material Franklin's quotes and Adams [TS]

00:10:46   letters and it does it does get us get [TS]

00:10:48   broad broad things correct bring you [TS]

00:10:51   your not that you don't want to you [TS]

00:10:52   don't want to expect that the sequence [TS]

00:10:54   of events or even specific events of the [TS]

00:10:57   that led up to the signing the adoption [TS]

00:10:59   of the Declaration were correct but i [TS]

00:11:02   think that if it delivers one thing that [TS]

00:11:04   needs to be delivered its that man these [TS]

00:11:06   the guts on these guys to not only to [TS]

00:11:09   basically here's a piece of paper with [TS]

00:11:10   all of our names on it so if this fails [TS]

00:11:12   guys here's the list of people to round [TS]

00:11:15   up and have hung and thank and in the [TS]

00:11:19   end the idea that these weren't like you [TS]

00:11:21   know 13 colonies united and liberty it [TS]

00:11:24   now these are people who really had [TS]

00:11:25   major major disagreements that need not [TS]

00:11:27   even the entire all the colonies were [TS]

00:11:29   like into this idea that they really had [TS]

00:11:31   we talked around to this so you have so [TS]

00:11:33   broad things that were that I think [TS]

00:11:35   we're very very useful to impart [TS]

00:11:37   especially given that as you say this is [TS]

00:11:39   something the kids are going to see like [TS]

00:11:40   you know when their air conditioning [TS]

00:11:43   cocks out they need to go out to a movie [TS]

00:11:44   theater in 1972 1973 but it's it's a [TS]

00:11:48   useful thing or when your social studies [TS]

00:11:51   teacher just does not want to pop it pop [TS]

00:11:54   it out wanting to the old VCR this movie [TS]

00:11:56   and Romeo and Juliet two movies that [TS]

00:11:58   almost everybody will get to see if they [TS]

00:12:00   don't have a really great teacher [TS]

00:12:01   speaking of Hong there's a surprising [TS]

00:12:03   number of jokes in this movie it's true [TS]

00:12:06   sure if that's if that's legitimate or [TS]

00:12:09   not but there is some amount of sexual [TS]

00:12:11   force in this film oh no no no every [TS]

00:12:13   book is a book called dr. Butler's [TS]

00:12:14   legacy written by the great and late [TS]

00:12:17   no apparently wrote a lot of really [TS]

00:12:18   interesting books about language very [TS]

00:12:20   fun with funny ones dr. ballows legacy [TS]

00:12:22   defines this very specific point the [TS]

00:12:24   eighteen-hundreds when people develop [TS]

00:12:25   this horrible thing Steve which you [TS]

00:12:27   would hate called sensibility and people [TS]

00:12:29   start getting sensitive in the seventeen [TS]

00:12:32   hundreds Duchess's would talk about [TS]

00:12:34   their another parts using coarse [TS]

00:12:35   language in the mid eighteen hundreds it [TS]

00:12:38   was all considered you know de trop and [TS]

00:12:40   it was all beneath everyone's dignity to [TS]

00:12:42   do so it's actually very accurate in the [TS]

00:12:45   seventeen hundreds of people go around [TS]

00:12:46   making even much much in fact the movie [TS]

00:12:49   was toned down what would have been [TS]

00:12:51   written in that period and you know if [TS]

00:12:52   you look at Franklin's papers he [TS]

00:12:53   certainly has a lot of comments about a [TS]

00:12:56   / apparatus and disease and so forth [TS]

00:12:58   that one might employee in the sexual [TS]

00:13:00   congress the impression I got from the [TS]

00:13:01   beginning of this movie is that I and i [TS]

00:13:04   thought this for a little while was they [TS]

00:13:05   were going to make the argument that [TS]

00:13:07   this whole declaration of independence [TS]

00:13:09   thing would have been much easier [TS]

00:13:11   if their wives had been with them for [TS]

00:13:13   sex and that was like the biggest [TS]

00:13:15   impediment was we left our wives at home [TS]

00:13:17   when we came to the Congress and that is [TS]

00:13:19   a problem except for Franklin who has no [TS]

00:13:21   wife and no problem and ok and and [TS]

00:13:25   several several sexually transmitted [TS]

00:13:27   diseases let's not leave that out [TS]

00:13:28   does he have the French disease i wonder [TS]

00:13:31   oh well named named european country and [TS]

00:13:34   he probably has the disease he had the [TS]

00:13:37   best disease he had the English disease [TS]

00:13:39   he never been to Venezuela so you never [TS]

00:13:42   had the visible and agree disease but [TS]

00:13:44   the austro-hungarian disease is used to [TS]

00:13:48   have the Istanbul disease but I was [TS]

00:13:50   constant Constantinople i would like to [TS]

00:13:52   point out that one of the things movie [TS]

00:13:53   got correct that is bizarre given my [TS]

00:13:55   types in background is the unalienable [TS]

00:13:58   enable think that's completely correct [TS]

00:14:00   john adams did potentially in his I'm [TS]

00:14:02   looking actually as we speak [TS]

00:14:04   I wanted to double check the item he [TS]

00:14:05   actually hand corrected the word that [TS]

00:14:08   Jefferson wrote knees and inalienable [TS]

00:14:10   several times to unalienable so the [TS]

00:14:12   weirdest historical details are correct [TS]

00:14:14   and the grossest ones are made false [TS]

00:14:17   right i just had to close the loop on [TS]

00:14:20   the accuracy or not they're of about the [TS]

00:14:24   only thing that bothers me about the I I [TS]

00:14:27   think John Dickinson and james wilson [TS]

00:14:30   who are your kind of the villains of the [TS]

00:14:32   peace [TS]

00:14:33   yes they get a raw deal i think i think [TS]

00:14:35   the because because you can't have kept [TS]

00:14:38   the younger and George the third singing [TS]

00:14:39   songs about how we're gonna we're gonna [TS]

00:14:42   crush your rebellion that would require [TS]

00:14:44   two sets so yeah that would have not [TS]

00:14:46   another whole nother set that would have [TS]

00:14:48   blown their budget so uh [TS]

00:14:51   I i think if you if the only [TS]

00:14:55   introduction to the signing the of the [TS]

00:15:00   Declaration of Independence that you get [TS]

00:15:01   is this movie that you will get a very [TS]

00:15:04   skewed picture of what John Dickinson [TS]

00:15:06   and james wilson we're actually about [TS]

00:15:08   yeah but that's what's your we shouldn't [TS]

00:15:11   worry that much about the office [TS]

00:15:13   Salieri and Mozart were actually pretty [TS]

00:15:15   ok friends and a business pretty certain [TS]

00:15:17   the cellular didn't kill him out its [TS]

00:15:19   cool down the whole movie [TS]

00:15:20   murray Abraham you gotta go you gotta [TS]

00:15:22   love that Darth Maul actually had a [TS]

00:15:24   lovely speaking voice I i well I [TS]

00:15:29   actually i think that the real star 1776 [TS]

00:15:32   william daniels is great but phil [TS]

00:15:34   hartman yea even and it was like 70 [TS]

00:15:37   million in the three or five roles that [TS]

00:15:39   he played that movie he was magnificent [TS]

00:15:41   only be played the women to this is this [TS]

00:15:44   is true one of my notes is that uh is I [TS]

00:15:47   didn't know Troy McClure was in 1776 and [TS]

00:15:51   it's got to be [TS]

00:15:52   i mean i-i have to imagine that this is [TS]

00:15:54   one of those movies that phil hartman [TS]

00:15:56   watched and and maybe even riffed on [TS]

00:15:58   some of these characters because they [TS]

00:16:00   sound exactly like the movie characters [TS]

00:16:03   that are done by phil hartman which is [TS]

00:16:05   ironic because a lot of these people are [TS]

00:16:07   stage actors making their their first [TS]

00:16:09   movie and in some cases they're only [TS]

00:16:11   movie yes yeah yeah and because they [TS]

00:16:15   used a lot of the original cast or in [TS]

00:16:17   the case of John column who plays a [TS]

00:16:20   Rutledge from South Carolina and you who [TS]

00:16:22   you may remember from such shows as [TS]

00:16:24   northern exposure [TS]

00:16:26   sure yeah calling calling he was [TS]

00:16:29   actually the second or third guy to play [TS]

00:16:31   Rutledge on Broadway was the third it [TS]

00:16:34   thank you [TS]

00:16:34   and he was the original choice but they [TS]

00:16:37   couldn't get him they couldn't get them [TS]

00:16:39   and then he played the part and they [TS]

00:16:40   said well you're gonna be in them [TS]

00:16:42   you're gonna be in a movie but a lot of [TS]

00:16:45   these guys were stage actors and it's [TS]

00:16:47   funny that you mentioned you you made [TS]

00:16:50   the referenced Amadeus two of the actors [TS]

00:16:52   who are in this movie go on to Piron [TS]

00:16:54   Amadeus the fellow who plays Samuel [TS]

00:16:57   chase of maryland and the fellow who [TS]

00:16:58   plays live in all of Georgia are both in [TS]

00:17:00   that movie and that that's what makes [TS]

00:17:02   this movie stronger i love it when [TS]

00:17:04   I i love it when you have the original [TS]

00:17:06   broadway cast that made made a musical [TS]

00:17:09   or play valuable enough to make a movie [TS]

00:17:11   and they just simply transfer as much of [TS]

00:17:13   that cast over because when you because [TS]

00:17:15   it's like oh great [TS]

00:17:16   gypsy starring Lillian Russell oh ok [TS]

00:17:20   that's exactly what I wanted [TS]

00:17:21   barbra streisand is as Dolly Levi oh [TS]

00:17:24   wait that's not right is it [TS]

00:17:25   russell crowe and Hugh Jackman just for [TS]

00:17:27   example yeah if they casts a Clint [TS]

00:17:29   Eastwood as Thomas Jefferson it's a [TS]

00:17:31   totally different movie and not a very [TS]

00:17:33   good one is paint your wagon will prove [TS]

00:17:35   you have you have that you have these [TS]

00:17:37   people that like have like been playing [TS]

00:17:39   these roles like for hundreds of [TS]

00:17:40   performances they absolutely are [TS]

00:17:42   invested the absolutely believe in this [TS]

00:17:44   as opposed to well I've got nothing book [TS]

00:17:46   from august through october okay final [TS]

00:17:49   do this little funny little movie and [TS]

00:17:50   i'll link to the camera effect where my [TS]

00:17:52   hockey jersey instead of you know that [TS]

00:17:54   stifling wardrobe that's fine too but [TS]

00:17:57   there are definitely things that that [TS]

00:17:59   don't translate well to the to the [TS]

00:18:01   screen that might have worked on the [TS]

00:18:03   stage that last night as I was watching [TS]

00:18:05   the movie the the the Scottish the the [TS]

00:18:08   guy from Delaware mckean with all it [TS]

00:18:11   that is just not a character that works [TS]

00:18:13   for almost a race crime isn't it yeah [TS]

00:18:16   boots model haha this is visibly that a [TS]

00:18:22   faux hawk I that's that's that's a bit [TS]

00:18:25   disappointed but I it i think actually [TS]

00:18:28   the the MVP of the movie is Howard [TS]

00:18:30   dasilva oh absolutely [TS]

00:18:33   Benjamin Franklin really because I [TS]

00:18:35   thought he sounded like he was doing a [TS]

00:18:36   bad imitation of Edwin the entire time [TS]

00:18:38   that voice of the choice well yes good [TS]

00:18:41   he really did he was winning it up big [TS]

00:18:43   time [TS]

00:18:44   yes he was winning it up and I mean the [TS]

00:18:46   whole time when I watched this time I [TS]

00:18:48   just heard Andy so that I felt he was [TS]

00:18:51   trying way too hard to make mildly funny [TS]

00:18:54   things hilarious and for me it went the [TS]

00:18:56   wrong direction [TS]

00:18:57   the turkey is a noble bird source of [TS]

00:18:59   sustenance interesting i enjoyed enjoyed [TS]

00:19:02   Franklin but then Franklin is a great [TS]

00:19:04   character just fundamentally because [TS]

00:19:05   Franklin himself was a great character [TS]

00:19:08   and so I kind of like the fact that [TS]

00:19:10   there's this older guy and he's he's [TS]

00:19:12   kinda back there in the background and [TS]

00:19:13   i'm not sure how much of that is the [TS]

00:19:14   script and how much of that is just is [TS]

00:19:17   history into [TS]

00:19:18   seating his yeah he seemed kind of broad [TS]

00:19:21   but at the same time there's a lot of [TS]

00:19:22   broad stuff happening in this movie and [TS]

00:19:25   and I just enjoyed the character and the [TS]

00:19:27   fact that he's he's he's doing all these [TS]

00:19:29   matching nations behind-the-scenes you [TS]

00:19:31   get the sense that you know he's he's [TS]

00:19:33   he's got it all worked out and and it's [TS]

00:19:36   just sort of like he is that why he's [TS]

00:19:39   almost like that uh that wise elder [TS]

00:19:42   figure that you see in some movies who [TS]

00:19:43   is like he's not in the quarter yes now [TS]

00:19:46   you understand there's some of that in [TS]

00:19:48   there too i want to bring something up [TS]

00:19:49   to which is that I'm i watch the [TS]

00:19:51   directors cut which is another was one [TS]

00:19:53   and I'm it seemed to go on in the nicest [TS]

00:19:57   way interminably so you no longer [TS]

00:19:58   remember all that much tougher than I [TS]

00:20:00   thought [TS]

00:20:00   yeah that's the 1i think that everybody [TS]

00:20:02   sees now is the one that's three hours [TS]

00:20:04   long [TS]

00:20:04   I wonder yes it was released in 2002 so [TS]

00:20:07   as the 1i saw i'm sure in high school [TS]

00:20:09   that i saw on you know various like AMC [TS]

00:20:10   or wherever they showed it that was [TS]

00:20:12   apparently 20 minutes shorter and I [TS]

00:20:14   didn't I mean I remember it being a [TS]

00:20:16   little bit [TS]

00:20:16   no more clipped and tighten my caucus [TS]

00:20:18   seems to be that number probably didn't [TS]

00:20:21   go on that long and so that's that's a [TS]

00:20:23   good recollection replevin seen in this [TS]

00:20:25   long-term I i have the set that have the [TS]

00:20:27   same reaction to it as I had to the [TS]

00:20:29   abyss where shall I tell the story [TS]

00:20:31   Oh yep yep the story behind the cuts LOL [TS]

00:20:34   to finish up I just by saying that I i [TS]

00:20:36   haven't had the opposite reaction that I [TS]

00:20:38   always liked this movie but it always [TS]

00:20:39   seemed a bit choppy where their [TS]

00:20:41   transitions that didn't make a whole lot [TS]

00:20:43   of sense and like all white is why why [TS]

00:20:45   they suddenly excited why do some why [TS]

00:20:47   does everybody suddenly decide to run [TS]

00:20:49   out of the room into the street yeah and [TS]

00:20:52   why did that happen and how and how come [TS]

00:20:54   and and how come like these two are [TS]

00:20:56   acting like they had this long [TS]

00:20:57   conversation that there's an [TS]

00:20:59   understanding between the two them when [TS]

00:21:01   they actually restored all those scenes [TS]

00:21:03   i do i like this movie slide in mind [TS]

00:21:05   that it was longer but I did think it [TS]

00:21:07   improved the movie because it really [TS]

00:21:08   seemed to stick together and also cool [TS]

00:21:11   cool considerate men what a crime it was [TS]

00:21:13   to lose that to begin with and here we [TS]

00:21:15   go into my story so the movie is [TS]

00:21:18   produced by Jack Warner who is a very [TS]

00:21:20   close personal friend of President Nixon [TS]

00:21:22   was the president in nineteen seventies [TS]

00:21:24   72 for our younger listeners and [TS]

00:21:28   remember you'll recognize some futurama [TS]

00:21:31   yes will he be dropping by the podcast [TS]

00:21:33   later perchance he might be I can do a [TS]

00:21:37   great diction well let us know when you [TS]

00:21:40   do is so much yet presidents on it [TS]

00:21:44   shh don't tell Jack Warner screens the [TS]

00:21:52   the the full cut for the president at [TS]

00:21:55   the White House and Nixon found cool [TS]

00:21:59   considerate men the number that Andy [TS]

00:22:01   referred to just as e ve thought an [TS]

00:22:05   attack on his presidency which it kinda [TS]

00:22:07   was and he kind of became enraged and [TS]

00:22:12   what Jack Warner said oh we're gonna [TS]

00:22:14   we're gonna cut that number and they [TS]

00:22:16   have probably cut some other things for [TS]

00:22:18   for timing and for apparently they cut [TS]

00:22:21   the hole opening credits each yes yes we [TS]

00:22:24   used to just start with john adams up in [TS]

00:22:26   the bell tower as i recall and um and as [TS]

00:22:31   he's striding down the stairs to the the [TS]

00:22:33   main hall it just says 1776 and they [TS]

00:22:36   write delay the other credits till the [TS]

00:22:37   end of the picture which I actually [TS]

00:22:38   thought was a better uh opener [TS]

00:22:41   agreed yeah i can go with that time for [TS]

00:22:45   a break to tell you about our sponsor [TS]

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00:23:03   for one low monthly price $25 now these [TS]

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00:23:11   it's not random people who have learned [TS]

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00:23:16   it's not like that and they aren't [TS]

00:23:17   people who are down in a basement [TS]

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00:23:22   youtube videos these are [TS]

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00:24:00   video coursework at lynda.com now i have [TS]

00:24:03   told you before I've use lynda.com to [TS]

00:24:05   bone up on things like a logic pro which [TS]

00:24:08   I use to edit the incomparable on things [TS]

00:24:10   like responsive design and html5 and [TS]

00:24:13   other things that I've been working on [TS]

00:24:14   in building the incomparables website [TS]

00:24:16   every time I think to myself god I don't [TS]

00:24:19   know how to do that just go to linda.com [TS]

00:24:21   I've got access to more than 2,000 [TS]

00:24:22   courses they've almost always got what i [TS]

00:24:25   want and it sends fast to jump to [TS]

00:24:27   exactly what I want to learn and get it [TS]

00:24:29   from one of the people who is probably [TS]

00:24:31   among the few people in the world who is [TS]

00:24:34   an expert on that category the experts [TS]

00:24:36   at lynda.com are that good [TS]

00:24:39   now this all sounds great and you're [TS]

00:24:41   saying to yourself well how do I know [TS]

00:24:43   that the lynda.com stuff is really that [TS]

00:24:45   good here's the cool part [TS]

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00:24:49   incomparable a special offer to access [TS]

00:24:52   the entire lynda.com library not a taste [TS]

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00:24:57   course 347 days visit linda.com / [TS]

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00:25:07   think about what you want to learn [TS]

00:25:08   second step lynda.com / incomparable [TS]

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00:25:17   went there and when you do that you'll [TS]

00:25:20   realize the incredible breadth and depth [TS]

00:25:22   of the lynda.com library so lynda.com ly [TS]

00:25:25   NDA dot-com / and comfortable and thank [TS]

00:25:29   you so much to linda.com for supporting [TS]

00:25:32   the incomparable i was talking about [TS]

00:25:35   this on Twitter last night with a friend [TS]

00:25:37   of mine who who I think enjoys the [TS]

00:25:39   musical and he was seen boy that is a [TS]

00:25:41   weirdly shot seen the cool considerate [TS]

00:25:43   men it's a it's a good number [TS]

00:25:45   I don't really much care for the way [TS]

00:25:47   that I think the actor is Donald madden [TS]

00:25:51   sings it in the movie it's it's much [TS]

00:25:53   better on the the Broadway soundtrack [TS]

00:25:55   but it's just weirdly film it's like I'm [TS]

00:26:01   havin a freak out in the middle of it is [TS]

00:26:04   it is a witch is which is the cool [TS]

00:26:05   considerate men which sequences that [TS]

00:26:08   that is the the atoms atoms is gone off [TS]

00:26:11   to new brunswick where the whoring is [TS]

00:26:13   and and the pencil dickinson sings it [TS]

00:26:16   gets it gets his song [TS]

00:26:17   ok this is when they do that little [TS]

00:26:18   minuet or whatever it is on the on the [TS]

00:26:20   floor yeah with a ride over to the ride [TS]

00:26:23   never to the left forever to the ride [TS]

00:26:25   trick for me you know the whole the [TS]

00:26:27   whole movie is really i mean it's clear [TS]

00:26:30   that this is not someone who has shot [TS]

00:26:32   movies a lot and it's very static and [TS]

00:26:36   stage ii and then every now and then [TS]

00:26:38   there's like this moment like that where [TS]

00:26:40   you're you're suddenly oh I can i yeah [TS]

00:26:43   and I can make the actors move to [TS]

00:26:46   oh my god and then he forgets again we [TS]

00:26:49   have a staircase let's put this song on [TS]

00:26:50   a staircase it'll actually be dynamic [TS]

00:26:53   for a moment you you got you gotta [TS]

00:26:54   wonder like it on what day was the crane [TS]

00:26:56   finally delivered right because anything [TS]

00:26:59   that they the crane became so important [TS]

00:27:02   that they actually tore apart the sound [TS]

00:27:03   stage at the end to get that final crane [TS]

00:27:05   shot so that's it and it's also it's [TS]

00:27:08   also a very like there's this i don't i [TS]

00:27:10   don't have the terminology for it but [TS]

00:27:12   there's a style of filmmaking that is [TS]

00:27:15   absolutely of that time like the late [TS]

00:27:18   sixties early seventies where you have [TS]

00:27:21   to have like a shot that begins on a [TS]

00:27:23   flickering candle and then you pull away [TS]

00:27:25   and then used to bring up a spot that [TS]

00:27:27   it's you do this this montage where you [TS]

00:27:30   going to have like a like someone's [TS]

00:27:31   graduation photo where you've got the [TS]

00:27:33   pensive version of the person and then [TS]

00:27:35   the same shot different angle of the [TS]

00:27:36   person from wide shots you can see out [TS]

00:27:38   the costume is so it's it's a very it is [TS]

00:27:41   it is an oddly shot film I'll grant that [TS]

00:27:43   this is the directors first film as a [TS]

00:27:46   director is only film as a director he [TS]

00:27:49   became a TV director of summer some [TS]

00:27:51   repute some he directed I married dora [TS]

00:27:54   well there you go and thirty seven [TS]

00:27:56   episodes of touched by an angel but not [TS]

00:27:59   in that way so that [TS]

00:28:02   the number that i can't stand actually [TS]

00:28:04   is the one that immediately follows a [TS]

00:28:06   cool considerate men which is mama looks [TS]

00:28:09   sharp [TS]

00:28:10   oh god I was wondering why that that [TS]

00:28:13   that was in this movie because Vietnam [TS]

00:28:16   was happening and why it's a movie and [TS]

00:28:19   thank God that the Liberty Bell was [TS]

00:28:21   secure because the anvil should have [TS]

00:28:23   just been dropping throughout that's it [TS]

00:28:25   i'm at I that why did Nixon uses pull to [TS]

00:28:28   get that much got that movie out get [TS]

00:28:30   that song out it's a happy song in the [TS]

00:28:33   stage productions before the [TS]

00:28:35   intermission and so they sing that [TS]

00:28:36   everyone's delighted to get other seats [TS]

00:28:38   and run and get a drink so i actually [TS]

00:28:40   saw production of energy its it can be [TS]

00:28:42   rendered very beautifully the filming of [TS]

00:28:44   it I think distracted from the it's a [TS]

00:28:46   very weird song but it can be something [TS]

00:28:48   incredibly beautifully this the state [TS]

00:28:50   the staging is very very hokey and I [TS]

00:28:52   think that's what attracts when it [TS]

00:28:53   serves a really good purpose because [TS]

00:28:55   here we are like being amused by all [TS]

00:28:56   these people who are butting heads with [TS]

00:28:58   each other [TS]

00:28:58   meanwhile there are people who are [TS]

00:29:00   legitimately just dying horribly and [TS]

00:29:03   this is anything here the stakes if they [TS]

00:29:04   guess wrong here and they commit all of [TS]

00:29:06   these troops to a prolonged battle [TS]

00:29:08   they're probably going to lose its not [TS]

00:29:10   just a simple it we know we know that [TS]

00:29:13   but what's with the outcome is going to [TS]

00:29:14   be to sign the Declaration of [TS]

00:29:16   Independence but this kind of increases [TS]

00:29:17   mistakes [TS]

00:29:18   this is a movie that demonstrates that [TS]

00:29:19   you can't really its you can't really [TS]

00:29:22   introduce something as serious as that [TS]

00:29:25   in a movie as light as this until you're [TS]

00:29:27   absolutely certain that the audience is [TS]

00:29:29   finally with you like molasses to run [TS]

00:29:32   two slaves and that is anybody there [TS]

00:29:34   which are two songs that to two numbers [TS]

00:29:38   that really would seem like on paper [TS]

00:29:40   when you look when you read the lyrics [TS]

00:29:41   like the lyrics are so flamboyant and so [TS]

00:29:44   out there and the idea that here is a [TS]

00:29:46   muse here is here is a dramatic song was [TS]

00:29:49   going to sing all about the triangle [TS]

00:29:50   trade and slavery if they put that the [TS]

00:29:52   beginning of the movie [TS]

00:29:54   you just wouldn't buy it at all on it [TS]

00:29:55   and if you are encountering either these [TS]

00:29:57   numbers as YouTube clips and you've not [TS]

00:30:00   seen the movie [TS]

00:30:01   it might also seemed just hysterically [TS]

00:30:04   over theatrical but if you've been in [TS]

00:30:06   this theater for two hours and you are [TS]

00:30:07   at this point where you know that the [TS]

00:30:09   this entire fate of a nation depends on [TS]

00:30:12   this incredibly complicated issue and [TS]

00:30:14   people coming together [TS]

00:30:15   that that's when you actually suddenly [TS]

00:30:17   are really on the edge of your seat with [TS]

00:30:19   the source stuff so i think that i think [TS]

00:30:20   that the looks model look sharp [TS]

00:30:23   it might be right at that tipping point [TS]

00:30:25   where if it had happened a little bit [TS]

00:30:27   later in the movie it might have had a [TS]

00:30:29   bigger impact or if they had really the [TS]

00:30:32   director had done it a little bit better [TS]

00:30:33   you know you're not not done the prom [TS]

00:30:35   photos style thrilled for the molasses [TS]

00:30:40   to round two slaves uh I I never really [TS]

00:30:43   liked that was not know that but give me [TS]

00:30:46   a moment well because the the gentleman [TS]

00:30:48   from South Carolina is apparently having [TS]

00:30:49   some sort of seizure on the floor again [TS]

00:30:53   it's not a scene that's very filmed well [TS]

00:30:55   I i liked it once i bought the the the [TS]

00:30:58   Broadway soundtrack and actually heard [TS]

00:31:01   it sung there without the the stupid [TS]

00:31:03   visuals where whereas yeah i think it's [TS]

00:31:06   a much more powerful song they're there [TS]

00:31:08   they're kind of disagree with you I i do [TS]

00:31:10   cid see your point I just disagree [TS]

00:31:12   this was the movie this is a movie [TS]

00:31:13   that's being directed by theatrical [TS]

00:31:15   director so he's going to use the [TS]

00:31:17   African tricks instead of again says [TS]

00:31:19   cinematography tricks to it whereas i [TS]

00:31:21   will save and I and I hope you will all [TS]

00:31:23   agree or you cannot be my friends in or [TS]

00:31:25   that means that the song that that atoms [TS]

00:31:28   in franklin and roger sherman and the [TS]

00:31:33   New York ah whose name is escaping me at [TS]

00:31:34   the moment it's a wonderful song the [TS]

00:31:36   song about the the but Mr Adams but Mr [TS]

00:31:40   Adams thank you that that is that is a [TS]

00:31:42   wonderfully film scene that is a [TS]

00:31:44   wonderful song that is that is I think [TS]

00:31:47   that is high comedy and I think it's [TS]

00:31:49   historically accurate and I enjoy it and [TS]

00:31:52   if you don't enjoy you're a monster [TS]

00:31:54   well you have to enjoy it because it's [TS]

00:31:56   it's after 30 minutes of no music and [TS]

00:31:58   music those 30 minutes for my favorite [TS]

00:32:00   part of the movie to actually I gotta [TS]

00:32:03   tell you the only thing about that song [TS]

00:32:05   is you know and I i love it is it is [TS]

00:32:08   high comedy it's it's a lot of fun [TS]

00:32:10   it's adorable and I love william daniels [TS]

00:32:12   but when I was watching it with the boys [TS]

00:32:15   at the twelve-year-old liked it because [TS]

00:32:17   they kept going you but you but you but [TS]

00:32:20   each other [TS]

00:32:22   you but I was like alright yeah there i [TS]

00:32:26   can i can do it that the the pacing of [TS]

00:32:30   the songs in this is bizarre like there [TS]

00:32:32   are songs and then there's for their [TS]

00:32:35   vast deserts where you are watching the [TS]

00:32:37   drama that is 1776 and then somebody [TS]

00:32:40   starts to sing in like what 10 right so [TS]

00:32:43   apparently that that is seen 3 in the [TS]

00:32:45   music in the state musical and it was [TS]

00:32:47   called a amongst the cast and crew the [TS]

00:32:50   big three and it was one of the few a [TS]

00:32:52   Broadway shows where the orchestra [TS]

00:32:54   actually left the piece because it went [TS]

00:32:57   on so long without them complain [TS]

00:33:00   anything that okay we're gonna go get a [TS]

00:33:02   smoke while you guys [TS]

00:33:03   union rules if if you're not playing for [TS]

00:33:06   X amount of time you can leave so yeah [TS]

00:33:08   it is a long long yet but to between [TS]

00:33:12   songs they claim on the DVD commentary [TS]

00:33:14   that they tried repeatedly to find a [TS]

00:33:16   song they can shoehorn in there somehow [TS]

00:33:17   nothing ever works which I find somewhat [TS]

00:33:20   hard to believe considering how poorly [TS]

00:33:22   some of the songs that are actually in [TS]

00:33:23   the picture it it is just my opinion but [TS]

00:33:26   that song that's about adverbs could [TS]

00:33:30   have been shoved in anywhere in the [TS]

00:33:31   movie and have been just as annoying you [TS]

00:33:34   talk about lolly lolly lolly basically [TS]

00:33:36   you yours yours yours wow the leaves of [TS]

00:33:43   Virginia they also said that the leaves [TS]

00:33:44   of rural Virginia was deliberately [TS]

00:33:46   unbelievably over-the-top specifically [TS]

00:33:48   so people wouldn't pass out during the [TS]

00:33:50   following 30 minutes I want to ask about [TS]

00:33:52   Lee speaking of the leaves'll Virginia [TS]

00:33:54   my note my note here is who is this [TS]

00:33:56   goofball it is the goddess of broad I [TS]

00:33:59   mean it's like I kept waiting for the [TS]

00:34:01   sad trombone to appear mr. [TS]

00:34:03   some might be the jokes obviously [TS]

00:34:07   annoyingly ridiculously repeatedly isn't [TS]

00:34:14   that exactly like it's not like exactly [TS]

00:34:17   your dream role if you cannot be like [TS]

00:34:18   the star of the movie [TS]

00:34:20   give me one number which i can just [TS]

00:34:22   absolutely chew up the scenery for [TS]

00:34:24   three-and-a-half minutes and then riding [TS]

00:34:26   the wrong horse I ride off never to [TS]

00:34:28   return [TS]

00:34:29   that's what you want a good five days of [TS]

00:34:31   filming everybody will like to ask [TS]

00:34:33   Donald O'Connor make them laugh he's the [TS]

00:34:35   universe is one big thing and and singin [TS]

00:34:38   in the rain but that he could have [TS]

00:34:39   retired right after that well but to to [TS]

00:34:41   put to put it in Music Man terms to put [TS]

00:34:44   in music me in terms this is the [TS]

00:34:46   shipoopi of 1770 sure is [TS]

00:34:49   wow I want to point out something about [TS]

00:34:50   the singing which is that for having so [TS]

00:34:52   many male voices and so few female [TS]

00:34:54   there's not enough harmony [TS]

00:34:56   I mean I'm not looking for barber shop [TS]

00:34:57   but the egg is one of the only songs [TS]

00:35:00   which they do any real close harmony for [TS]

00:35:02   an extended period a lot of unison [TS]

00:35:04   there's a lot of sort of chorus but I [TS]

00:35:06   feel like it under uses the power of the [TS]

00:35:09   voice practically my first note is that [TS]

00:35:11   the very personification telling john [TS]

00:35:14   adams to shut up up to several it uses [TS]

00:35:17   the kind of full chorus singing that [TS]

00:35:20   works great on stage but I don't think [TS]

00:35:22   comes across great in a movie just [TS]

00:35:24   because the sound doesn't play as well I [TS]

00:35:27   actually had to turn the subtitles on [TS]

00:35:29   and go back and watch that again so i [TS]

00:35:31   could figure out what the hell they were [TS]

00:35:32   saying yeah and then I was quite pleased [TS]

00:35:34   with this on [TS]

00:35:35   oh yeah it's funny I made a point that [TS]

00:35:37   people agree with I'm not sure what's [TS]

00:35:38   going on here [TS]

00:35:39   this isn't the show no I don't know [TS]

00:35:40   it'll never happen again that was are [TS]

00:35:42   those are one moment at a few other [TS]

00:35:44   notes that of my watching this a line [TS]

00:35:48   that i liked was the you send US [TS]

00:35:50   Congress good god was that fair [TS]

00:35:53   very funny line and I complain about [TS]

00:35:54   that line for a second [TS]

00:35:56   yes go ahead right ahead piss on [TS]

00:35:58   everything i'm going to line up was that [TS]

00:36:03   fair is somehow pronounced to rhyme with [TS]

00:36:07   North America and Philadelphia ah and [TS]

00:36:11   that's terrible song right here [TS]

00:36:14   terrible yes famed of yourself for enjoy [TS]

00:36:18   no I don't because I thought I thought [TS]

00:36:20   that was actually a funny little bit so [TS]

00:36:22   that you're right it was at what price [TS]

00:36:24   is what you're saying that what comes [TS]

00:36:25   crimes like that i'm saying that they [TS]

00:36:29   apparently just wrote down the lyrics [TS]

00:36:31   and then told the singers make it rhyme [TS]

00:36:34   I don't care what the word actually [TS]

00:36:35   sound like I i think it is ace a Syrian [TS]

00:36:39   indictment of New England accent yeah I [TS]

00:36:41   think that's it [TS]

00:36:42   look for New England accent okay more [TS]

00:36:45   complaints i I'm i also wanted to [TS]

00:36:48   mention that i really appreciated [TS]

00:36:49   speaking of Steve mentioned dick jokes [TS]

00:36:51   earlier i wanted to say that I i really [TS]

00:36:53   appreciated the various rhode island is [TS]

00:36:55   in the can Rhode Island passes jokes [TS]

00:36:58   those were that's that's good stuff ah [TS]

00:37:00   that was good stuff although I was [TS]

00:37:02   sorely disappointed that there was never [TS]

00:37:04   a hancock pond at any point in the film [TS]

00:37:07   well i got that's in 1972 I think that [TS]

00:37:09   maybe too far but Rhode Island passes [TS]

00:37:12   while it [TS]

00:37:12   rhode island is out in the Privy was [TS]

00:37:14   that that was a laugh I was a [TS]

00:37:16   laugh-out-loud moments for me I i really [TS]

00:37:18   i really enjoyed that and then had to [TS]

00:37:20   explain your kids that that passes is [TS]

00:37:22   often used for X eliminating a waste [TS]

00:37:25   material know my kids had abandoned the [TS]

00:37:27   TV long before then [TS]

00:37:30   yeah I quite like the the secretary I'd [TS]

00:37:35   forgotten that role entirely it's a [TS]

00:37:37   weird little part until he has that [TS]

00:37:40   strange Muhammad vs I think General [TS]

00:37:42   Washington is writing to be thinking [TS]

00:37:44   this man has lost it [TS]

00:37:46   now don't you love the one where he [TS]

00:37:49   keeps getting interrupted every time he [TS]

00:37:50   tries the president of the three the [TS]

00:37:52   resolution so just let me get through [TS]

00:37:54   what it is very very forgotten role I [TS]

00:37:58   think I IE he always reminds me of [TS]

00:38:01   Johnny from airplane yeah like for most [TS]

00:38:05   of the movie he's basically scenery but [TS]

00:38:07   he comes in for a few good pops [TS]

00:38:09   yeah I quite like the argument between [TS]

00:38:12   atoms and dickinson where the exchanges [TS]

00:38:14   I believe fribble madman landlord and [TS]

00:38:17   lawyer [TS]

00:38:18   oh yeah and lawyers the one that finally [TS]

00:38:20   pushes john adams over the edge [TS]

00:38:21   that's too far just a game to him bridge [TS]

00:38:24   too far but what the hell is a fribble [TS]

00:38:26   it's it's what you get it [TS]

00:38:28   friendly's the frontal with rebels I [TS]

00:38:30   think that's the app yeah i like i like [TS]

00:38:33   that new jersey that the guys from New [TS]

00:38:35   Jersey show up just in time and it's [TS]

00:38:37   like oh yeah oh who are we right you [TS]

00:38:39   don't even know a working Jersey where [TS]

00:38:42   the guys from New Jersey are we really [TS]

00:38:43   40 minutes into this before we mentioned [TS]

00:38:45   that's the governor from Benson I like [TS]

00:38:47   the fact that governor Gatling is in [TS]

00:38:49   this and that he is exactly the same [TS]

00:38:51   character as he is in benson and it was [TS]

00:38:54   it was weird because I lived in [TS]

00:38:55   Princeton for years so everything was [TS]

00:38:57   John Witherspoon this and John [TS]

00:38:59   Witherspoon that and witherspoon street [TS]

00:39:01   and witherspoon bookstore and it was [TS]

00:39:03   like oh wait a minute of course he was a [TS]

00:39:04   real person and he was the governor [TS]

00:39:06   pence [TS]

00:39:07   there's a there's a there's the the [TS]

00:39:10   Bartlett who is the namesake of of the [TS]

00:39:12   west wing character is referenced here [TS]

00:39:14   to who is actually well yeah the the [TS]

00:39:16   thing that that really struck me this [TS]

00:39:18   time because i had seen it before [TS]

00:39:20   was that Aaron Sorkin must have watched [TS]

00:39:23   this not just proved Bartlett switches [TS]

00:39:25   for the mac machinations and the sort of [TS]

00:39:27   wheeling and dealing and it just [TS]

00:39:29   reminded me of the west wing a lot and I [TS]

00:39:32   also also 12 Angry Men yeah that's [TS]

00:39:34   that's true yeah I like we're for [TS]

00:39:37   singling out like what the really [TS]

00:39:39   beautiful like a little lines i always [TS]

00:39:40   come back to Lyman Hall of Georgia said [TS]

00:39:44   when asked about asked about his [TS]

00:39:45   inventive but worries where he stands on [TS]

00:39:47   an independent say well the Georgia [TS]

00:39:50   split right down the middle the people [TS]

00:39:52   are against it and I'm for it [TS]

00:39:53   yeah but that's really good and I really [TS]

00:39:56   loved um our rebellion is always legal [TS]

00:39:58   their rebellion is never legal I thought [TS]

00:40:02   that was really great [TS]

00:40:03   I think my favorite to Lyon moment in [TS]

00:40:05   the film was probably right at the end [TS]

00:40:07   where they actually pass in dependency [TS]

00:40:09   and rather than have a huge celebration [TS]

00:40:11   Adams just sits down and says it's done [TS]

00:40:14   it's done and that's that's a really [TS]

00:40:17   great moment because between the look on [TS]

00:40:18   his face and the seven gallons of fake [TS]

00:40:21   sweat that somebody sprayed around you [TS]

00:40:24   you really feel his sudden realization [TS]

00:40:26   of old crap what did I just get us into [TS]

00:40:29   as in my version they'd freeze frame it [TS]

00:40:31   and play journeys any way you want [TS]

00:40:33   I don't know you're confusing 1776 with [TS]

00:40:37   Caddyshack again it's coming [TS]

00:40:39   mistake so now I i have to say though it [TS]

00:40:42   in terms of in terms of inspiring fourth [TS]

00:40:46   of July kind of patriotic moments the [TS]

00:40:49   fact that the the vote that puts it over [TS]

00:40:51   the top is Wilson and the only reason he [TS]

00:40:54   votes the way he does is because he'll [TS]

00:40:57   be remembered as the guy who stopped if [TS]

00:40:59   he doesn't but if he says yes no one [TS]

00:41:00   will remember him quite an accusation a [TS]

00:41:02   movie hehe got it wrong but but whatever [TS]

00:41:06   reason to vote that way but that's [TS]

00:41:07   that's the thing pushes over the top is [TS]

00:41:09   I don't want to stand in the way of this [TS]

00:41:10   thing and be known as the guy who stood [TS]

00:41:12   in the way of it so I vote yes well in [TS]

00:41:14   partially surely some of that is just [TS]

00:41:17   because he's tired dickinson pushing him [TS]

00:41:19   around [TS]

00:41:19   assuming he takes it for granted right [TS]

00:41:21   Pennsylvania's but it's just a block and [TS]

00:41:23   it always votes Pennsylvania and [TS]

00:41:25   Dickinson is the voice there and then [TS]

00:41:27   all of a sudden it on it unravels at the [TS]

00:41:30   end which is a nice little hidden trap [TS]

00:41:32   door in the plot right of course Adams [TS]

00:41:34   has had sent Franklin off to try and get [TS]

00:41:37   that vote so when presumes that maybe [TS]

00:41:39   there was some you know he said that [TS]

00:41:41   Franklin would often planted a little [TS]

00:41:43   seed in his mind if I may if I may to [TS]

00:41:47   speak to the kids out there from hello [TS]

00:41:50   kids I'm not sure what you should allow [TS]

00:41:52   it but go ahead all out my kids I'm Phil [TS]

00:41:56   I'm i may look like a bright guy i'm not [TS]

00:41:59   a very bright guy but I i know enough to [TS]

00:42:02   read a bit and if you would like to [TS]

00:42:04   learn more about the sign of the [TS]

00:42:06   Declaration of Independence why don't [TS]

00:42:08   you go to amazon and pick up a book [TS]

00:42:10   called signing their lives away which [TS]

00:42:12   gives little thumbnail sketches of [TS]

00:42:15   everyone who signed the Declaration of [TS]

00:42:17   Independence it's not you know the [TS]

00:42:20   greatest biography in the world but it [TS]

00:42:22   gives you a nice little law a better [TS]

00:42:24   view than what you might get scanning [TS]

00:42:26   the wikipedias of the world and you [TS]

00:42:30   learn a little bit more about james [TS]

00:42:31   wilson and also people not featured in [TS]

00:42:34   this movie like button Gwinnett sand and [TS]

00:42:37   Benjamin Rush and lots of figures who [TS]

00:42:40   helped found the country that you you [TS]

00:42:42   live in today offer not valid two people [TS]

00:42:45   listened outside the US and knowing is [TS]

00:42:47   half the battle [TS]

00:42:48   time for a brief break to talk about our [TS]

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00:43:01   Squarespace is easy-to-use you don't [TS]

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00:43:53   iphones ipads you name it they look [TS]

00:43:56   great they're too brilliant responsive [TS]

00:43:59   design in these beautiful templates so [TS]

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00:44:39   website and thank u square space for [TS]

00:44:41   sponsoring the uncomfortable so I I [TS]

00:44:44   thought it was interesting that it it [TS]

00:44:45   again you've mentioned the Vietnam and [TS]

00:44:49   Nixon references in this in this movie I [TS]

00:44:53   think that also because obviously as [TS]

00:44:55   where this movie is made by people in [TS]

00:44:56   the seventies [TS]

00:44:58   and I it is knowledgeable about American [TS]

00:45:00   history that the and this is true but [TS]

00:45:04   the speed bump at the end is the is the [TS]

00:45:07   slavery question which has much more [TS]

00:45:10   weight knowing what would happen 90 [TS]

00:45:12   years hence and so I thought that was [TS]

00:45:15   really i thought that was a really [TS]

00:45:17   interesting point we get the the Roman [TS]

00:45:19   slaves song although that is totally not [TS]

00:45:22   John column singing that song and if no [TS]

00:45:25   it is no it can't be can't what what hey [TS]

00:45:27   it's nothing it sounds so unlike his [TS]

00:45:29   speaking voice that it will then then [TS]

00:45:31   I'm very confused because he's not doing [TS]

00:45:33   a fake accent during it is amazing [TS]

00:45:36   ok so then i would say this then then [TS]

00:45:37   this is my complaint is he he [TS]

00:45:41   modulated too much between that song and [TS]

00:45:43   his speaking voice in the movie to the [TS]

00:45:44   point where it is unrecognisable as the [TS]

00:45:46   same guy [TS]

00:45:47   i'll give you that it's like this is the [TS]

00:45:49   recording session voice and this is the [TS]

00:45:51   one I'm on the set voice and it's just [TS]

00:45:53   that it took me out of it too but that's [TS]

00:45:55   it that's it and that is a crazy musical [TS]

00:45:57   number but i did find that was a [TS]

00:45:59   surprising amount of weight like to andy [TS]

00:46:00   said at that point in the movie it's [TS]

00:46:02   able to bear down with that level of [TS]

00:46:04   weight of like this is a thing that had [TS]

00:46:07   to happen in order for the for the [TS]

00:46:09   declaration to happen but that baked the [TS]

00:46:12   Civil War basically into the country [TS]

00:46:16   from the start and it was going to be a [TS]

00:46:18   problem eventually and I liked that was [TS]

00:46:21   in there I thought the moment was strong [TS]

00:46:23   but the song was just so so over the top [TS]

00:46:25   that it just took me out of it [TS]

00:46:27   EMU's he's singing a perfectly fine song [TS]

00:46:30   and then just suddenly he descends into [TS]

00:46:31   go ya know how that's the entire point [TS]

00:46:35   of it with it breaks us to break up the [TS]

00:46:37   middle begs for god sakes man because [TS]

00:46:41   he's really trying to wind people up and [TS]

00:46:42   saying look you've been spending this [TS]

00:46:44   entire debate try to make us feel bad [TS]

00:46:46   for being 4 being slave-owners why don't [TS]

00:46:49   you just admit that you're part of the [TS]

00:46:50   problem to screw you right picture that [TS]

00:46:53   moment the theater where he's doing that [TS]

00:46:54   and people 19 studio the 1960s late [TS]

00:46:57   sixties early seventies being confronted [TS]

00:46:59   with that kind of presentation there was [TS]

00:47:02   nothing like that [TS]

00:47:03   being presented at that time everything [TS]

00:47:05   else there's you know is so I think [TS]

00:47:06   we've been a powerful moment the theater [TS]

00:47:08   less so in the films by then and [TS]

00:47:10   certainly the theater now [TS]

00:47:13   yeah and he is amazing onstage use in [TS]

00:47:16   here's the villain you're in town a [TS]

00:47:17   couple years ago I got again not what [TS]

00:47:20   we're if if he was on Broadway in the [TS]

00:47:24   show you're in town which won a Tony and [TS]

00:47:27   Pulitzer real show save he's not making [TS]

00:47:28   it up [TS]

00:47:29   I i saw Brent fault and yes and and and [TS]

00:47:35   he's lovely in it but if you only know [TS]

00:47:36   him from northern exposure than the only [TS]

00:47:39   time you saw him sing was like in the [TS]

00:47:40   Christmas episode where heatsink oh holy [TS]

00:47:42   night with this very modulated angelic [TS]

00:47:45   voice yeah and everyone would go hopping [TS]

00:47:47   can sing there's a lot of people like [TS]

00:47:49   that was the blame do all the guy who [TS]

00:47:51   plays mcnair like that the custodian he [TS]

00:47:54   is one of these like legendary Broadway [TS]

00:47:57   guys who's just been and every single [TS]

00:47:59   thing you've ever heard of but I was [TS]

00:48:00   served [TS]

00:48:01   what am I saw the man who came to dinner [TS]

00:48:05   the maiden the nation lane production [TS]

00:48:06   that was so funny is like oh look it's [TS]

00:48:08   the guy from 1776 the best we actually [TS]

00:48:10   looked for his background ago he's been [TS]

00:48:12   essentially in every single play [TS]

00:48:14   he's like he's easily is like having a [TS]

00:48:16   it like how pixar can't do a movie about [TS]

00:48:19   John Ratzenberger if you wanted to have [TS]

00:48:21   success successful play you have to have [TS]

00:48:22   William dwell in there somewhere i [TS]

00:48:24   record I recognized him sooner than I [TS]

00:48:25   recognize william daniels is william [TS]

00:48:29   william daniels looks a little different [TS]

00:48:30   but that guy's look the same for 40 [TS]

00:48:32   years and I I think he's featured in [TS]

00:48:34   quite a few sitcoms and TV shows along [TS]

00:48:36   the way that guy was born old I think he [TS]

00:48:38   was the the snitch on police squad [TS]

00:48:41   yes now here's Johnny he was Johnny and [TS]

00:48:44   he was in one flew over the cuckoo's [TS]

00:48:46   nest one of my favorite movie was born [TS]

00:48:48   in 1923 we died three years ago now so [TS]

00:48:51   but he still that's very sad thank you [TS]

00:48:53   for bringing that up Colin and there [TS]

00:48:54   hasn't been a Broadway hit send everyone [TS]

00:48:56   in this film is now dad to sit down [TS]

00:48:59   through except that's quite untrue true [TS]

00:49:02   John Adams days by dresser is dead can [TS]

00:49:06   however is much alive [TS]

00:49:08   william daniels still kick and wine [TS]

00:49:10   mr. B I never noticed in the white [TS]

00:49:12   shadow but ken ken Howard was a fine [TS]

00:49:13   specimen of a man he was no seriously [TS]

00:49:16   think that maybe the ponytail is what [TS]

00:49:18   what finally pushed him over the top is [TS]

00:49:21   ok this is I'm going I'm going to tell [TS]

00:49:23   this is this is how far back i go with [TS]

00:49:25   1776 I used to have I grew ponytail in [TS]

00:49:29   college it wasn't because of 1776 but [TS]

00:49:32   when it occurred to what occurred to me [TS]

00:49:33   that like now that now that I was like [TS]

00:49:35   it now that I was in college I I could [TS]

00:49:37   act apply for my ponytail license I [TS]

00:49:39   thought man John Adams look pretty good [TS]

00:49:41   in that ponytail i'm going to all that [TS]

00:49:44   give me the coverage to not get haircuts [TS]

00:49:47   for 20 years that is who you based your [TS]

00:49:48   look around with john adams know if [TS]

00:49:51   somebody came up to you and said man why [TS]

00:49:53   you were in that ponytail you'd say hey [TS]

00:49:55   it looks great musical exactly the [TS]

00:49:58   person i had you know it's it's it's a [TS]

00:50:00   long time federalist I but also help [TS]

00:50:04   I'll tell you another thing like ever it [TS]

00:50:05   she also helped me to get through like [TS]

00:50:07   New England summers because you know [TS]

00:50:09   youryour it's 93 degrees and your sod [TS]

00:50:12   you're sweating and then you're feeling [TS]

00:50:14   like all kinds of self pity for yourself [TS]

00:50:15   because you don't have air-conditioning [TS]

00:50:16   and it really did turn my head around a [TS]

00:50:19   little bit to realize that well how do [TS]

00:50:20   they do that in 1776 like in real time [TS]

00:50:23   as well they were ten layers of well and [TS]

00:50:25   data simply didn't complain about it [TS]

00:50:27   oh that's right I'm just I'm just [TS]

00:50:30   feeling it twice as bad because i'm [TS]

00:50:32   complaining about it all day i'll just [TS]

00:50:34   suffer in silence and go forward [TS]

00:50:35   yes they also died at 38 so there is [TS]

00:50:38   that I i will say that's about the the [TS]

00:50:41   movie there there's a problem I think [TS]

00:50:43   with movie musicals where people [TS]

00:50:45   suddenly break into song and it has this [TS]

00:50:49   the sense this that the sense of not not [TS]

00:50:52   real about it that takes you right out [TS]

00:50:54   of the movie and and to its credit 1776 [TS]

00:50:58   with the bright colors that everyone [TS]

00:51:00   wears and the costuming and the way that [TS]

00:51:03   the movie is filmed apart from the [TS]

00:51:06   scenes that we mentioned that we thought [TS]

00:51:07   the director did not do service to the [TS]

00:51:09   material i think that it works it it as [TS]

00:51:15   a movie you don't go [TS]

00:51:17   why are these people suddenly singing [TS]

00:51:18   this is this is this is crazy talk in a [TS]

00:51:22   way that it wouldn't work another [TS]

00:51:23   musical [TS]

00:51:24   I don't know if I agree with that means [TS]

00:51:25   that that's the convention of a musical [TS]

00:51:27   these results also the convention that [TS]

00:51:29   while my eyes just didn't just I didn't [TS]

00:51:31   have a stroke and wake up and suddenly [TS]

00:51:33   i'm looking at something else now wait [TS]

00:51:35   there's a cut there oh that's not [TS]

00:51:36   necessary that natural you start class [TS]

00:51:37   over it but it is it is part of the [TS]

00:51:40   magic of musicals that either it works [TS]

00:51:42   for you or it doesn't and it is [TS]

00:51:44   incredible that you can think that your [TS]

00:51:46   friend stare is going to start like [TS]

00:51:48   dancing about getting a shot at getting [TS]

00:51:50   a shoeshine and it will feel like its [TS]

00:51:52   most natural thing from to do in the [TS]

00:51:54   world but in any other musical you have [TS]

00:51:56   you know adam sandler try to open a can [TS]

00:51:58   of olives and all my don't buy that at [TS]

00:52:00   all [TS]

00:52:00   you can either you can either buy into [TS]

00:52:02   what the movie is selling or the movie [TS]

00:52:04   can be so removed from reality that you [TS]

00:52:06   don't even need to buy in because it's [TS]

00:52:08   so stage and theatrical that of course [TS]

00:52:10   they're going to sing i think is that's [TS]

00:52:12   how i would i would decode what Phil [TS]

00:52:14   said and that's sort of how I feel [TS]

00:52:15   you're either completely engrossed and [TS]

00:52:16   you'll go anywhere will take you or that [TS]

00:52:19   you know when 1776 I feel like this is [TS]

00:52:22   the way it is i feel like i'm in a [TS]

00:52:23   theater it's it's completely unreal the [TS]

00:52:26   part of my brain that would be saying [TS]

00:52:27   what wait a second why are they singing [TS]

00:52:28   has been turned off because it's not [TS]

00:52:31   that kind of movie where whereas movies [TS]

00:52:33   from a from a generation earlier of 1776 [TS]

00:52:36   had do this very stage ii very we're [TS]

00:52:40   doing a movie about the business we call [TS]

00:52:42   show and so we're all going to sing now [TS]

00:52:45   which I think segues nicely into Yankee [TS]

00:52:47   Doodle Dandy and I make my final [TS]

00:52:49   statement about 1776 before we go [TS]

00:52:52   yes this is your last last-chance and [TS]

00:52:54   then we'll never speak in a pot shots I [TS]

00:52:58   really disliked all of the songs in this [TS]

00:53:01   movie [TS]

00:53:01   wow that is all [TS]

00:53:05   ya comi you're basically gonna drop a [TS]

00:53:07   deuce then walk away from it that's what [TS]

00:53:08   you doing walking away i'm 10 open up a [TS]

00:53:11   win we all liked the book of this movie [TS]

00:53:13   you like the actual spoken non-sunni [TS]

00:53:15   part here are two sentences i wrote down [TS]

00:53:18   while watching this this is the only [TS]

00:53:20   musical I've ever seen where I like the [TS]

00:53:21   dialogue but hate the songs allowed who [TS]

00:53:24   is so wrong and then i wrote down [TS]

00:53:27   wait I no longer like the dialogue so [TS]

00:53:32   that the songs are full of allegedly [TS]

00:53:36   funny voices and forced Rhymes and I did [TS]

00:53:40   not buy them for a second [TS]

00:53:44   thanks i right are only light [TS]

00:53:46   extemporaneous I won't put politics on [TS]

00:53:49   paper it's a mania so I refuse to use [TS]

00:53:52   the pen in Pennsylvania you're right [TS]

00:53:54   doesn't scan at all [TS]

00:53:56   David what you're gonna say something I [TS]

00:53:58   mean talking about just people breaking [TS]

00:54:01   out into song the one of the things that [TS]

00:54:03   I like in this that I don't like from a [TS]

00:54:06   lot of musicals in that late sixties [TS]

00:54:08   early seventies period is that this one [TS]

00:54:11   kind of gets be we always get trained [TS]

00:54:13   that if you're going to write a musical [TS]

00:54:15   the the only way for to really work as [TS]

00:54:18   if these people have no other choice but [TS]

00:54:21   to sing their their passions their their [TS]

00:54:23   situations are just so intense and so [TS]

00:54:26   dramatic that there's nothing left to do [TS]

00:54:28   but sing and dance and and I I kind of [TS]

00:54:31   see that in this i kinda like how it [TS]

00:54:33   just sort of comes out it's not like oh [TS]

00:54:35   we're going to do a number now for the [TS]

00:54:38   most part [TS]

00:54:39   some of them yeah it's hey let's do a [TS]

00:54:41   number i'm so excited about meeting pin [TS]

00:54:43   sent back home I must think about it it [TS]

00:54:46   well that's that would be one that does [TS]

00:54:48   not quite work do you know how hard it [TS]

00:54:50   was to make pins instead we got my [TS]

00:54:54   monograph and i'll read it to you you [TS]

00:54:56   know Jefferson Jefferson had some of the [TS]

00:54:58   slave starting to make nails at his [TS]

00:55:00   plantation and boy it turned into a [TS]

00:55:02   quite a nice little little business for [TS]

00:55:04   okay we're gonna go around we're going [TS]

00:55:06   to go around to the whole group and give [TS]

00:55:07   a verdict on this one because i feel i [TS]

00:55:09   feel like we are very much split on this [TS]

00:55:13   which is very unlike the fourth of July [TS]

00:55:16   when as we've been clear everybody must [TS]

00:55:18   agree on everything so this is terrible [TS]

00:55:20   David Laura what is your verdict on this [TS]

00:55:21   1i I liked it up until the bond music at [TS]

00:55:25   the very last moment [TS]

00:55:27   wow ok it's it's really weird it just [TS]

00:55:30   feels like it's gonna you know it's like [TS]

00:55:32   Roger Sherman will return in 1776 to [TS]

00:55:35   articles of Confederate see as the bill [TS]

00:55:38   is rigged against this intense no [TS]

00:55:40   dramatic and then you just expect the [TS]

00:55:42   bond theme and opening credits to start [TS]

00:55:44   like we [TS]

00:55:45   the minute you expect me to talk [TS]

00:55:48   Goldfinger no expect you to revolt Mr [TS]

00:55:50   Bond [TS]

00:55:51   so I Phil Phil you've you've sort of [TS]

00:55:54   elaborated hear that you you have liked [TS]

00:55:56   it and seemed to like it lasts every [TS]

00:55:59   time you see it i think it is a fine [TS]

00:56:01   movie to watch every other july 4th if [TS]

00:56:06   that's your thing that's your jam if you [TS]

00:56:09   like crap than you no no no no I as I [TS]

00:56:16   was saying it's fun [TS]

00:56:18   they're probably like 10 12 15 musicals [TS]

00:56:21   I'd watch before this one if you put [TS]

00:56:23   them in front of me but you know every [TS]

00:56:26   every couple years if that you you're [TS]

00:56:29   feeling a certain spirit around july 4th [TS]

00:56:31   this is not a bad movie to watch it's an [TS]

00:56:33   enjoyable lark all right Monty you you [TS]

00:56:37   made your you made your feelings fairly [TS]

00:56:39   clear I think barely made it through [TS]

00:56:41   honestly and don't blame the era because [TS]

00:56:45   there are good plays and musicals being [TS]

00:56:48   done around this time to hi Margie I [TS]

00:56:50   President Nixon and i agree with you [TS]

00:56:52   Steve your thoughts your verdict [TS]

00:56:59   I would like to have stained courteously [TS]

00:57:02   haha very nice now I'm not gonna do that [TS]

00:57:06   I'm going to actually say that I really [TS]

00:57:10   liked it and I was shocked because I'd [TS]

00:57:14   never heard of this before it was [TS]

00:57:16   assigned as homework and I sat down and [TS]

00:57:21   and there was a very broad john adams [TS]

00:57:23   dialogue at the top and then a song that [TS]

00:57:25   I didn't really understand and it seemed [TS]

00:57:27   a little overwrought but once I settled [TS]

00:57:31   into the whole spirit of the thing I [TS]

00:57:33   really enjoyed it i was highly [TS]

00:57:35   entertained was not annoyed by Howard [TS]

00:57:38   dasilva I I thought william daniels was [TS]

00:57:41   superb [TS]

00:57:42   I owe money to my Booker is his sarcasm [TS]

00:57:46   and his it just the constant dear God [TS]

00:57:49   stuff was sleeping and I i actually I [TS]

00:57:53   side a little bit with Monty and that i [TS]

00:57:54   actually enjoyed the book better than I [TS]

00:57:56   enjoyed the songs [TS]

00:57:58   because I felt like they were sort of [TS]

00:58:01   interrupting the flow of the thing there [TS]

00:58:04   was some talk on the on the DVD [TS]

00:58:07   commentary that some people had said [TS]

00:58:09   when they when they witnessed the [TS]

00:58:11   30-minute Gulf without without music [TS]

00:58:14   that's it somewhat suggestive maybe [TS]

00:58:15   should have just been a play and I i [TS]

00:58:17   kind of right side on that side and yet [TS]

00:58:20   nobody would know what 1776 was if it [TS]

00:58:23   had music so it's probably a good thing [TS]

00:58:25   that they did but I yeah I was [TS]

00:58:28   surprisingly entertained by it and we'll [TS]

00:58:31   probably watch again [TS]

00:58:33   all right Glenn you you have like this [TS]

00:58:36   you still like it after watching it [TS]

00:58:38   again I i do I have a very very brief [TS]

00:58:41   comments first i've listened to the [TS]

00:58:43   soundtrack many times over the years and [TS]

00:58:45   I think the soundtrack by itself without [TS]

00:58:47   visual accompaniment or the book holds [TS]

00:58:50   up very well it's fun [TS]

00:58:51   the soundtrack is fun and it's got ups [TS]

00:58:52   and downs but you know that the darker [TS]

00:58:54   song so forth but it's a powerful [TS]

00:58:56   soundtrack allow it [TS]

00:58:58   ok second i think the movie is more [TS]

00:59:01   boring than I remember because there are [TS]

00:59:03   a lot of sort of it's a little bit of [TS]

00:59:05   the the Federation is at warriors train [TS]

00:59:07   a trade found a federation it's like a [TS]

00:59:09   lot of money out that does not advance [TS]

00:59:11   they must be Giants Jason it does not [TS]

00:59:14   advance the plot as much as one eats too [TS]

00:59:16   with the complexity what's going on but [TS]

00:59:17   I think it's and it's it's it's good to [TS]

00:59:20   watch and I think the staging is odd but [TS]

00:59:22   I enjoyed seeing the film the third [TS]

00:59:24   brief comment is this musical opened a [TS]

00:59:26   little bit about a year before sometimes [TS]

00:59:29   company and I think that 1776 is [TS]

00:59:32   practically the populace of this kind of [TS]

00:59:34   musical when you think about it i've [TS]

00:59:36   seen stage once quite well and will [TS]

00:59:38   reasonably well and the kind of musical [TS]

00:59:41   it is a sort of fiddler on the roof and [TS]

00:59:43   that sort of long ago 20 plus your [TS]

00:59:46   stretch of this sort of thing [TS]

00:59:47   this is kind of I don't know there were [TS]

00:59:49   ones after this but this is an [TS]

00:59:51   incredibly great outing of that sort and [TS]

00:59:53   then entire musical theater really [TS]

00:59:55   changes dramatically like you know [TS]

00:59:57   months after it opens well it's also [TS]

00:59:59   three [TS]

00:59:59   three [TS]

01:00:00   there's after cabaret so you like [TS]

01:00:02   musicals had already started shifting [TS]

01:00:03   dicaprio as much I thought company have [TS]

01:00:06   a bigger impact his cabaret told a [TS]

01:00:07   linear story just more you know more [TS]

01:00:10   avant-garde I suppose also call so [TS]

01:00:12   company's failure remember being [TS]

01:00:14   separate 1,000,000 counties but [TS]

01:00:16   everything sprung I know but having [TS]

01:00:17   sprung from that company broke the [TS]

01:00:20   theater that broke it in little night [TS]

01:00:22   music and I mean sometime really just [TS]

01:00:24   blew it up in this in the early [TS]

01:00:26   seventies and then Sweeney Todd kind of [TS]

01:00:28   that took it to the next level [TS]

01:00:31   yeah so I just think as a historical [TS]

01:00:32   thing like just both what what this is [TS]

01:00:34   like it that last moment at which this [TS]

01:00:36   is what everyone thinks of this musical [TS]

01:00:38   theater tip you're listening to musical [TS]

01:00:40   theater and obviously you have great [TS]

01:00:44   affection for this movie and and have [TS]

01:00:46   expressed it so i think i know your [TS]

01:00:47   verdict exactly i'll it's because it's [TS]

01:00:50   you don't always continue to like the [TS]

01:00:52   movies that you like to the kids [TS]

01:00:54   sometimes you're sometimes you're a [TS]

01:00:55   little bit embarrassed about it and [TS]

01:00:56   sometimes you still like it but you [TS]

01:00:59   acknowledge how much of that is wrapped [TS]

01:01:00   up in austell georgia but I can say that [TS]

01:01:01   I still legitimately enjoy this movie [TS]

01:01:04   every time i see is one of the few [TS]

01:01:05   movies I've actually bought digitally [TS]

01:01:07   because i want to have it on my devices [TS]

01:01:09   but it it when I think one of the things [TS]

01:01:11   that I appreciate apart from liking it [TS]

01:01:14   is that I i think it's a damn shame that [TS]

01:01:17   the most legendary Broadway casts the [TS]

01:01:22   most important productions you can think [TS]

01:01:24   of they're just dead they just go away [TS]

01:01:26   because the original cast goes away [TS]

01:01:28   there is no that you can if you think [TS]

01:01:30   it's very modern ages there there [TS]

01:01:32   videotape so if you go to a certain [TS]

01:01:34   library you might be able to see it but [TS]

01:01:36   you will never be able to see what Hello [TS]

01:01:38   Dolly was like with the original cast [TS]

01:01:40   the originals and something up like the [TS]

01:01:41   original staging there are some problems [TS]

01:01:43   but there's some things about 1776 the [TS]

01:01:46   movie that make it and not as good as a [TS]

01:01:47   movie could be like amadeuz they totally [TS]

01:01:50   rebooted it as a movie and you can tell [TS]

01:01:53   scene by scene by scene they did that [TS]

01:01:54   way 1776 I appreciate the fact that they [TS]

01:01:58   were trying to make a great movie but [TS]

01:01:59   also at least subconsciously they [TS]

01:02:01   thought let us preserve this wonderful [TS]

01:02:03   thing that this cast has spent years [TS]

01:02:05   developing and making and so if at least [TS]

01:02:07   a lot of awkward shots and some scenes [TS]

01:02:11   which you even as a kid I was thinking [TS]

01:02:13   and that is one big-ass belfry while big [TS]

01:02:15   is how big the top and that's all i got [TS]

01:02:19   is 10 50 yard wide belfry and i can i [TS]

01:02:23   can overlook and forgive that because I [TS]

01:02:24   think it's much better to have preserved [TS]

01:02:26   this wonderful thing that now succeeding [TS]

01:02:28   generations can really really see it now [TS]

01:02:30   I i definitely agree with that to take a [TS]

01:02:33   modern example into the woods has a [TS]

01:02:36   recorded great performance version of [TS]

01:02:38   the broadway cast that's great and I [TS]

01:02:41   think will probably continue to be great [TS]

01:02:43   even after the movie version which stars [TS]

01:02:45   movie stars instead of the Broadway [TS]

01:02:47   actors well David night actually we were [TS]

01:02:49   just talking about this on saturday and [TS]

01:02:52   which is funny and it if he idea of [TS]

01:02:55   preserving something of the ephemeral [TS]

01:02:57   art of live production so that there's [TS]

01:03:00   some record of that even though it's not [TS]

01:03:02   the same is interesting [TS]

01:03:04   my wife was on a school trip to see into [TS]

01:03:07   the woods that day and they got notes [TS]

01:03:09   when they they all got in their seats [TS]

01:03:11   and open the programs and it said the [TS]

01:03:12   original cast has returned to this one [TS]

01:03:15   performance only because they're taping [TS]

01:03:16   it for great performances and everyone [TS]

01:03:19   went nuts like everytime i watch it you [TS]

01:03:21   know it's like my wife is in there [TS]

01:03:23   somewhere that's awesome so i will just [TS]

01:03:25   say before we do have to move on because [TS]

01:03:27   we have another movie and we have to [TS]

01:03:28   talk about you dude Doodle Dandy at [TS]

01:03:30   least briefly I i wanted i will just [TS]

01:03:32   give you my verdict which is I didn't [TS]

01:03:33   think the songs for any good i think [TS]

01:03:35   provide i think that what I think I [TS]

01:03:38   think that's perhaps that i have only [TS]

01:03:39   ever business in this life only ever [TS]

01:03:41   been exposed to them in this film and i [TS]

01:03:43   like but I thought they were hard to [TS]

01:03:45   even understand what they were saying a [TS]

01:03:46   lot of points i found that the yeah yeah [TS]

01:03:48   I didn't I didn't enjoy it perhaps I [TS]

01:03:50   will watch it again sometime in a [TS]

01:03:52   different frame of mind expecting what I [TS]

01:03:54   now know this movie to be but I had a [TS]

01:03:55   hard time hard time with it and didn't [TS]

01:03:57   particularly enjoy it and boy it was [TS]

01:03:58   long so that's the system franchisees [TS]

01:04:01   doc and Jason surance i did enjoy the [TS]

01:04:03   Attic it was John Adams that was great [TS]

01:04:06   and and and a hauling was that that [TS]

01:04:10   awful guy from South Carolina I do [TS]

01:04:11   appreciate twitter because I mentioned [TS]

01:04:13   some things about 1776 plus Washington [TS]

01:04:15   Twitter and a twitter account called [TS]

01:04:18   angry Sondheim we [TS]

01:04:19   sponded alright that was good I i know [TS]

01:04:22   that account well I should say I got [TS]

01:04:24   nothing against william daniels I [TS]

01:04:25   thought he did fine i just didn't like [TS]

01:04:27   the song to sing [TS]

01:04:28   alright let's move onto let's move on to [TS]

01:04:30   Yankee Doodle Dandy I know I know I [TS]

01:04:32   generally like things I'm shocked that i [TS]

01:04:34   am actually in the crowd that thinks [TS]

01:04:36   it's okay [TS]

01:04:37   yeah well you are who I'm shocked about [TS]

01:04:40   that too [TS]

01:04:41   team fill in glen I can't believe that [TS]

01:04:42   Phil likes things anyway uh as Steve [TS]

01:04:45   likes things that's even crazier [TS]

01:04:47   well let's correct that and talk about [TS]

01:04:49   Yankee Doodle today yankee doodle dandy [TS]

01:04:52   1942 yeah this is actually great [TS]

01:04:54   sequencing because i have a feeling [TS]

01:04:56   we'll all have been some agreement about [TS]

01:04:57   this one will know now it's not gonna [TS]

01:05:00   happen [TS]

01:05:00   that's not gonna happen but this is [TS]

01:05:02   directed by Michael Curtis who directed [TS]

01:05:03   casablanca which is a great movie i wish [TS]

01:05:05   you would watch that instead [TS]

01:05:07   so you know it's gonna be good right [TS]

01:05:10   right right [TS]

01:05:12   it tells the story of georgian cohan and [TS]

01:05:15   stars James k let's start let's oh ok so [TS]

01:05:18   Georgia cohan Jewish was famous know [TS]

01:05:22   he's Irish [TS]

01:05:22   I don't win it's cohan Kairos the four [TS]

01:05:25   cohan's he wrote many songs that are [TS]

01:05:27   that are are well known and they decide [TS]

01:05:29   to make a movie of his life as he was [TS]

01:05:30   dying it was a movie made during world [TS]

01:05:34   war two about a guy who came to fame in [TS]

01:05:37   many ways writing patriotic songs during [TS]

01:05:39   World world war one there is a framing [TS]

01:05:42   sequence involving him being summoned to [TS]

01:05:44   the White House because he's portraying [TS]

01:05:45   Roosevelt on broadway and that's simply [TS]

01:05:47   just not done so what is the president [TS]

01:05:49   going to say is going to call them on [TS]

01:05:50   the carpet and demand y co and why are [TS]

01:05:53   you you doing this and it stars James [TS]

01:05:56   Cagney as is that's exactly what FDR has [TS]

01:05:59   time to deal with in 1942 and it starts [TS]

01:06:01   Cagney's cohan along the way you get the [TS]

01:06:04   sense and not being totally [TS]

01:06:05   knowledgeable about the entire georgian [TS]

01:06:09   cohan songbook it seems to me that this [TS]

01:06:11   is essentially taking me George M cohan [TS]

01:06:13   songbook and sort of telling you hit the [TS]

01:06:15   story of his life and being able to drop [TS]

01:06:17   in his famous songs as as you go so so [TS]

01:06:21   it's like this is how we came up with [TS]

01:06:23   that song and there's a lot of that in [TS]

01:06:25   this too [TS]

01:06:25   yeah it's a good synopsis as i [TS]

01:06:28   understand it this movie as i understand [TS]

01:06:31   it this movie was made by Cagney [TS]

01:06:33   because people thought he was [TS]

01:06:34   unpatriotic because he kept playing [TS]

01:06:35   gangsters [TS]

01:06:36   oh really so he wanted to play something [TS]

01:06:39   as patriotic as he absolutely could [TS]

01:06:42   so people would stop being mean to him [TS]

01:06:44   yeah that's that's uh that's a pretty [TS]

01:06:46   good summary of what happened [TS]

01:06:47   I mean here so here's the thing i didn't [TS]

01:06:49   love this movie either but I think I [TS]

01:06:52   didn't Cagney is actually kind of great [TS]

01:06:53   his dancing is amazing and he's a really [TS]

01:06:56   well he's incredibly likeable I haven't [TS]

01:06:57   seen him very much but he's I think he's [TS]

01:06:59   fantastic and it is a little weird that [TS]

01:07:01   he's about two years younger than his [TS]

01:07:03   dad [TS]

01:07:04   well well yeah but before I crap all [TS]

01:07:07   over this movie let me haha have you [TS]

01:07:10   feel like eating raisins for two days of [TS]

01:07:12   preparation for this podcast okay yeah I [TS]

01:07:14   want to open up a window [TS]

01:07:17   um the the the argument in favor of this [TS]

01:07:21   movie is that it is you get to see James [TS]

01:07:24   Cagney deliver a great performance in a [TS]

01:07:28   it [TS]

01:07:30   II in a role that you really don't [TS]

01:07:32   associate with James Cagney you [TS]

01:07:33   associated him with gangster movies like [TS]

01:07:37   white heat and the public enemy and such [TS]

01:07:41   angels with you certainly don't expect [TS]

01:07:42   them to tap that you certainly don't [TS]

01:07:44   expect them to tap-dance exactly tough [TS]

01:07:46   guys don't tap-dance and he is good he [TS]

01:07:49   is very good in this movie which offers [TS]

01:07:51   nothing else for anyone involved in the [TS]

01:07:55   movie too and the musical numbers are [TS]

01:07:59   all done in the and then we did this [TS]

01:08:01   stage number here it is and it's it's [TS]

01:08:04   not a musical in the sense that like [TS]

01:08:06   1776 words people spontaneously break [TS]

01:08:09   into song it is very staged very it's [TS]

01:08:13   like literally hear is me writing this [TS]

01:08:16   song or here is us performing this thing [TS]

01:08:18   I just wrote so all of the music is [TS]

01:08:20   really happening in the context of of [TS]

01:08:22   reality of it is being produced if you [TS]

01:08:24   if you if you have turner classic movies [TS]

01:08:26   this is so familiar to you because that [TS]

01:08:28   was like a genre of movies and musicals [TS]

01:08:31   in the thirties and forties where Mr the [TS]

01:08:33   the life history of Oscar Hammerstein [TS]

01:08:35   like oh well you know here is 1911 I've [TS]

01:08:38   just got a new packet although the [TS]

01:08:40   package broken down if I only could [TS]

01:08:42   write a song to make money to fix the [TS]

01:08:45   packet [TS]

01:08:45   and the equip the equivalent in this [TS]

01:08:47   movie is they're trying to get the [TS]

01:08:48   starlet to be in the movie and her to be [TS]

01:08:50   in his his play and and while she's [TS]

01:08:53   demanding that I well i'll never work [TS]

01:08:55   with that cohan he's terrible and then [TS]

01:08:56   he turns as well i just wrote this song [TS]

01:08:58   for you [TS]

01:08:58   let's look let's not let's not even less [TS]

01:09:00   my skip over that the most insane [TS]

01:09:02   framing device ahead has ever been put [TS]

01:09:04   into a movie before you get into that [TS]

01:09:06   andy has actually made a very salient [TS]

01:09:09   point which is basically this is this [TS]

01:09:10   movie is a is a biopic from the era [TS]

01:09:13   before Wikipedia was invented something [TS]

01:09:16   could say anything they wanted [TS]

01:09:18   yeah it's basically and then this [TS]

01:09:20   happened and this happened and this [TS]

01:09:22   happened to and here's a song about it [TS]

01:09:24   and a if you if you like your biopics [TS]

01:09:27   where it's actually it [TS]

01:09:30   it uses the character of the person's [TS]

01:09:33   life to explore a larger issue about the [TS]

01:09:36   human condition [TS]

01:09:37   this is not the movie for you this that [TS]

01:09:40   this is basically here is stuff that [TS]

01:09:43   george m cohen road we're going to write [TS]

01:09:45   songs around it [TS]

01:09:46   there is no conflict in this movie the [TS]

01:09:48   only bad things that ever happened to [TS]

01:09:50   George Cohen as is as a kid he's kind of [TS]

01:09:53   mouthy and then he writes a play that [TS]

01:09:56   people don't like and then uh he gets [TS]

01:09:59   beaten up once and and then his dad dies [TS]

01:10:02   and those are the that's the extent of [TS]

01:10:04   the bad things that ever happened to [TS]

01:10:06   George and colder the note i made about [TS]

01:10:08   this film was that there was an awful [TS]

01:10:09   lot of business in their contracts and [TS]

01:10:12   meetings and then giving his father the [TS]

01:10:14   very weepy fifty percent interest and it [TS]

01:10:16   was like we never signed a contract all [TS]

01:10:19   we never had like it was sort of about [TS]

01:10:20   ten percent contract and tort law I [TS]

01:10:23   thought about you know eighty percent [TS]

01:10:25   music it was very interesting that would [TS]

01:10:27   look Laura can back me up on this but [TS]

01:10:28   there's a there's a musical that was on [TS]

01:10:31   Broadway called George M which was the [TS]

01:10:34   life stroll Georgie it with joel grey [TS]

01:10:37   which was the life story with your Jim [TS]

01:10:38   Coan and it's it's not a great musical [TS]

01:10:40   but at least it's it it's better than [TS]

01:10:42   this movie because it actually [TS]

01:10:44   incorporates the songs of georgian Cohen [TS]

01:10:47   into his life story with the struggles [TS]

01:10:50   in the ups and the downs in the highs [TS]

01:10:52   and the lows whereas this is just one [TS]

01:10:54   thing at well mr. president and then [TS]

01:10:57   this happened [TS]

01:10:58   if you if you have if you have if you [TS]

01:11:00   have a an audience with like President [TS]

01:11:03   Obama and he asked so boy long long trip [TS]

01:11:06   getting here [TS]

01:11:07   I sing let you sit down and talk for two [TS]

01:11:09   hours give you your life story as I was [TS]

01:11:12   watching this movie I thought this is [TS]

01:11:14   this is the movie that will be made [TS]

01:11:15   we're League Greenwood is called to [TS]

01:11:18   president Ted Cruz's office at to talk [TS]

01:11:20   about it about his highs and lows after [TS]

01:11:23   writing i'm proud to be an American [TS]

01:11:25   Georgia i'm still I'm still giving you [TS]

01:11:27   the metal but you do know that there's a [TS]

01:11:29   war on that I have to like kind of [TS]

01:11:31   control here [TS]

01:11:32   I i will say i mean at least when they [TS]

01:11:34   made George M they had this to look back [TS]

01:11:37   to and go [TS]

01:11:38   don't do it like that home but yeah I [TS]

01:11:41   mean I here's years we should make a [TS]

01:11:42   confession [TS]

01:11:43   aside from living in da Museum when I [TS]

01:11:47   was five and six [TS]

01:11:48   I used to do an act that had like local [TS]

01:11:51   things because the bicentennial year I [TS]

01:11:54   used to do a whole bunch of georgian [TS]

01:11:55   cones goes hey look cute little [TS]

01:11:57   five-year-old can sink and so we had the [TS]

01:12:00   George M songbook and we saw this like [TS]

01:12:03   20 times and I've have seen it too many [TS]

01:12:06   times now did you sing speaking or did [TS]

01:12:08   you actually sing it I actually say [TS]

01:12:10   little dendi yankee doodle do or die [TS]

01:12:16   yeah he doesn't he doesn't quite thing [TS]

01:12:18   when even rex harrison is out singing [TS]

01:12:19   you that's a private Rex Harrison [TS]

01:12:21   exactly he doesn't need to sing it he's [TS]

01:12:24   James Cagney wait a minute there's [TS]

01:12:25   there's a part right when he said when [TS]

01:12:27   he's composing one of the songs where he [TS]

01:12:29   actually sings it any sounds fine but in [TS]

01:12:32   theory I mean supposedly he sang like [TS]

01:12:34   that because cohan himself saying like [TS]

01:12:36   that that's right that's right [TS]

01:12:38   any he tap-danced is sort of like a [TS]

01:12:41   giraffe with gout because that's also [TS]

01:12:44   how come here amy is an amazing tap [TS]

01:12:48   dancer but i find this movie delightful [TS]

01:12:50   every time I watch it I love this movie [TS]

01:12:53   just because I enjoyed James Cagney in [TS]

01:12:56   singer/dancer mode so much [TS]

01:12:59   mhm and just him dancing up and down the [TS]

01:13:02   steps [TS]

01:13:03   oh my god love that scene oh that [TS]

01:13:05   they're there are some wonderful moments [TS]

01:13:07   in this movie [TS]

01:13:07   let me sum up for the audience so that [TS]

01:13:10   they can skip the the terrible part [TS]

01:13:12   this shouldn't take long yeah that the [TS]

01:13:14   part where he tap-danced is downstairs [TS]

01:13:16   at the end of the movie is quite good [TS]

01:13:19   I'm very very last scene of the movie [TS]

01:13:22   and apparently improvised by kagney in [TS]

01:13:24   that one moment I don't know if I that I [TS]

01:13:27   yeah i did read that like so so the [TS]

01:13:29   director said this was the director set [TS]

01:13:30   up this huge shot easy either his place [TS]

01:13:33   it on the storyboards is James caddy [TS]

01:13:35   simply walks down this very long flight [TS]

01:13:36   of stairs and does nothing i'm not sure [TS]

01:13:38   if I'd buy that you can't believe many [TS]

01:13:40   trivia a 1940s movie it's all made up by [TS]

01:13:43   the publicity part nothing whatsoever [TS]

01:13:45   happened in the rest of the film so why [TS]

01:13:47   should that be any different [TS]

01:13:48   it's suspicious because i feel like the [TS]

01:13:49   metrics of these did this the depth of [TS]

01:13:52   those stairs were made for a tap dance [TS]

01:13:55   right I think that's how it feels like [TS]

01:13:57   to me over the edge I mean that was a [TS]

01:13:58   standard thing without you know with all [TS]

01:14:00   the Fred Astaire and Gene Kelly films [TS]

01:14:03   yeah the scene where is dad dies play by [TS]

01:14:06   Walter Huston is actually quite touching [TS]

01:14:08   although all be at the archetypal the [TS]

01:14:12   I'm here one last moment [TS]

01:14:14   uh-huh and then he that's gonna do this [TS]

01:14:16   like that movie death if there are no [TS]

01:14:18   snakes in it but that the either those [TS]

01:14:21   are two great actors doing great [TS]

01:14:23   actually things and I kind of like the [TS]

01:14:26   scene where he was his wife where he's [TS]

01:14:28   in disguise is an older man i love that [TS]

01:14:31   scene III love that scene for several [TS]

01:14:33   reasons i love it because he's got the [TS]

01:14:35   old guy makeup on and this girl comes in [TS]

01:14:37   that he obviously likes and he's got the [TS]

01:14:39   old guy makeup but he decides I'm gonna [TS]

01:14:40   screw around here i'm just gonna be like [TS]

01:14:42   an old man and any reveal sweet it was [TS]

01:14:44   like no I can I can still dance and he [TS]

01:14:46   dances and she's like oh you're gonna [TS]

01:14:47   give yourself a heart attack and then [TS]

01:14:49   your your wrinkles are wiping off what [TS]

01:14:51   is going on here but the funniest part [TS]

01:14:53   is when the when the girl comes in and [TS]

01:14:55   says so we're gonna go out on a date [TS]

01:14:57   tonight and sleep yep and she's like is [TS]

01:14:59   she a bit young for you I think I i [TS]

01:15:01   think that's a hilarious little bit [TS]

01:15:03   little bit i think that's a very funny [TS]

01:15:05   bit but that's horrible mouth sound he [TS]

01:15:07   makes several times that see that made [TS]

01:15:09   me want to vomit slightly yeah well at [TS]

01:15:12   the ne and the conversation with Eddie [TS]

01:15:14   4a is also a wonderful [TS]

01:15:16   oh yeah okay I'll throw that in there I [TS]

01:15:18   agree that's a very good scene that is a [TS]

01:15:21   classic comedy routine is I feel like [TS]

01:15:23   I'm watching there [TS]

01:15:24   the fact that it's any for junior in [TS]

01:15:26   there being any boy and and that's the [TS]

01:15:29   extent of it because as Anna as Andy [TS]

01:15:32   mentioned there's this ridiculous [TS]

01:15:34   framing device where the president of [TS]

01:15:35   the United States you would think has [TS]

01:15:38   better things to do calls that mr. [TS]

01:15:40   president is how i met your let me let [TS]

01:15:43   me explain something is this framing [TS]

01:15:46   sequence the framing sequence in the [TS]

01:15:47   Yankee Doodle Dandy is is as I said [TS]

01:15:48   before he gets called to Washington [TS]

01:15:51   because the president wants to talk to [TS]

01:15:52   him because performing a role of the [TS]

01:15:55   sitting president which is an actual an [TS]

01:15:57   actual thing that happened he played [TS]

01:15:59   roosevelt in a musical called I'd rather [TS]

01:16:02   be right than president by Kaufman and [TS]

01:16:04   Hart I think with Rodgers and Hart [TS]

01:16:06   registered hurt so so they brought down [TS]

01:16:08   he's brought down to Washington to meet [TS]

01:16:10   him and it's like oh you know and [TS]

01:16:11   there's trepidation right this [TS]

01:16:13   reputation he goes in and and you sit [TS]

01:16:15   down mr. Cohan and and and they and and [TS]

01:16:20   then he proceeded to tell his life story [TS]

01:16:22   which is strange but the stranger part [TS]

01:16:23   is by the time we get to the end and we [TS]

01:16:25   see him [TS]

01:16:26   it literally if he was telling the story [TS]

01:16:28   he'd be like well and then I was in this [TS]

01:16:30   musical and I was and I was playing you [TS]

01:16:32   forget I know that part just get to the [TS]

01:16:34   end at and and you cut to Reuters [TS]

01:16:37   abilities his face is just melted off as [TS]

01:16:39   a skillet yeah the skeleton and this [TS]

01:16:41   story is plug like an air like an [TS]

01:16:43   airplane so the way of the way it [TS]

01:16:45   resolves is that at the beginning of the [TS]

01:16:47   movie were expected that there's tension [TS]

01:16:48   that perhaps cohan doesn't is going to [TS]

01:16:52   be in trouble with the president the [TS]

01:16:53   united states you've gone too far this [TS]

01:16:55   time George him [TS]

01:16:56   oh and at the end he finishes his life [TS]

01:16:58   story and and Roosevelt says here's the [TS]

01:17:01   Congressional Medal of Honor you [TS]

01:17:03   we need more singers and songwriters [TS]

01:17:05   like you to write more patriotic songs [TS]

01:17:08   to win us this next war like you wanted [TS]

01:17:09   the last one [TS]

01:17:10   alright cohan now get out of my office [TS]

01:17:12   because honestly when you win the [TS]

01:17:13   Congressional Medal Medal of Honor when [TS]

01:17:15   you're awarded that he wanted done in a [TS]

01:17:17   quiet ceremony rainy nights and related [TS]

01:17:20   it's just you and the president exactly [TS]

01:17:23   it used to used to be like the Dean [TS]

01:17:25   Martin roasts they don't tell you about [TS]

01:17:26   it they want to be a big surprise when [TS]

01:17:28   Don Rickles cause your hockey puck you [TS]

01:17:30   have the full impact [TS]

01:17:31   yeah it's so that that part is that part [TS]

01:17:33   is ridiculous and then but what I really [TS]

01:17:35   love and this this is that whole who [TS]

01:17:37   knew what [TS]

01:17:38   publicly and privately because this [TS]

01:17:40   movie made it made in 42 they roosevelt [TS]

01:17:44   in the framing sequence never stands and [TS]

01:17:47   yet there's also a very amusing thing [TS]

01:17:48   because of course cohan does a whole big [TS]

01:17:50   song and dance number that's strictly [TS]

01:17:52   off the record right and that is he's [TS]

01:17:56   singing and dancing again it's actually [TS]

01:17:58   knowing that Roosevelt had polio it's [TS]

01:18:00   like dancing Roosevelt that's crazy [TS]

01:18:02   right [TS]

01:18:03   so obviously the people who made the [TS]

01:18:04   movie we're aware that Roosevelt didn't [TS]

01:18:07   stand in public but but in the musical [TS]

01:18:09   for that audience at that time [TS]

01:18:12   Roosevelt sang and danced and that was [TS]

01:18:14   seemed perfectly natural and knowing [TS]

01:18:16   what we know about that now i found that [TS]

01:18:17   hilarious actually and also intriguing [TS]

01:18:20   that they that they did it that way and [TS]

01:18:21   there's some people to this day who [TS]

01:18:23   think that the wheelchair is from all [TS]

01:18:25   the tap-dancing yes it was just plum [TS]

01:18:29   tuckered out what's really preposterous [TS]

01:18:30   about that scene framing device is I'd [TS]

01:18:34   rather be right than president came out [TS]

01:18:36   in 1937 so the premiere of the musical [TS]

01:18:40   happens and he's called the white house [TS]

01:18:42   and he tells the president of his life [TS]

01:18:43   and if you look at the clock and [TS]

01:18:46   five-year I'm last in the internal [TS]

01:18:48   clocks in the final seed it's eleven [TS]

01:18:50   o'clock at night when he gets the [TS]

01:18:52   Congressional Medal of Honor in that [TS]

01:18:53   quiet civic ceremony here [TS]

01:18:55   do you realize that that the Pearl [TS]

01:18:57   Harbor got bar because i was sitting [TS]

01:18:59   here listening to you instead of wiping [TS]

01:19:02   out my email [TS]

01:19:03   exactly my point he goes out and there [TS]

01:19:05   are people having a parade and eleven [TS]

01:19:07   o'clock at night the soldiers going off [TS]

01:19:11   to World War two [TS]

01:19:12   yeah been there for five years and [TS]

01:19:16   there's it's taken charge of to tell [TS]

01:19:18   Roosevelt ceremony [TS]

01:19:20   sorry George while you were telling your [TS]

01:19:21   story I I nipped out to get reelected in [TS]

01:19:24   1940 and deliver the speech before [TS]

01:19:26   Congress that this was a date him for me [TS]

01:19:29   but you kept talking so I didn't want to [TS]

01:19:31   stop [TS]

01:19:31   incidentally I while I was out there I [TS]

01:19:34   contract at poly also perhaps you won't [TS]

01:19:36   want to do it while tap-dancing buying [TS]

01:19:38   me and then pulls back it goes and then [TS]

01:19:40   we made a movie where I was talking [TS]

01:19:42   about you i love you i love off the [TS]

01:19:43   record though that's that I was actually [TS]

01:19:46   had to capture that one and put on my [TS]

01:19:48   ipod that was that's a little bit so [TS]

01:19:49   that is the most entertaining i think [TS]

01:19:51   number in the whole thing some of the [TS]

01:19:52   early stuff whether they're showing like [TS]

01:19:54   this is what old-time entertainment was [TS]

01:19:56   in my notes here are this seems to be [TS]

01:19:58   some kind of entertainment program [TS]

01:20:00   because i found it not actually [TS]

01:20:02   entertaining in any way and then again [TS]

01:20:04   my modern sensibilities perhaps but i [TS]

01:20:06   found the singing dancing the you know [TS]

01:20:08   this is part of a larger set of acts [TS]

01:20:10   that are going on and I found it really [TS]

01:20:11   kind of a kind of dull and at the scene [TS]

01:20:14   where he writes that song and dashes off [TS]

01:20:16   of the starlet social be in his [TS]

01:20:18   production which is actually one of his [TS]

01:20:19   songs and and you're led to believe that [TS]

01:20:22   he sort of written it in about 30 [TS]

01:20:23   seconds in order to impress her [TS]

01:20:26   honestly it sounds like a song that was [TS]

01:20:27   written in about 30 seconds it doesn't [TS]

01:20:29   impress me at all that that that is the [TS]

01:20:31   only sexual tension in the movie by the [TS]

01:20:33   way where I thought there was gonna be a [TS]

01:20:35   thing where he's oh well the the [TS]

01:20:37   beautiful starlet is going to fall in [TS]

01:20:39   love with them and then they'll be no no [TS]

01:20:42   he was apparently living with his not [TS]

01:20:44   yet married wife was actually a second [TS]

01:20:46   wife not discussed in the film but I [TS]

01:20:48   that the scene there's a point where [TS]

01:20:50   like the bacon ham thing like are they [TS]

01:20:53   are they shacked up where does whose [TS]

01:20:55   words that's that's but that's part of [TS]

01:20:57   the fun of these kinds of movies like [TS]

01:20:59   what one of the other things to watch [TS]

01:21:01   out for is so it seems so it seems like [TS]

01:21:04   this sort of them in the life of the [TS]

01:21:05   songwriter there is a he's got a [TS]

01:21:07   mysterious problem that's causing him to [TS]

01:21:10   not be productive and you're trying to [TS]

01:21:12   figure out is that what you're using the [TS]

01:21:13   euphemism for he was actually a deeply [TS]

01:21:15   closeted homosexual and he knew that he [TS]

01:21:17   could never real that part [TS]

01:21:18   let's make mickey rooney plata who was [TS]

01:21:20   easy play one of these through Richard [TS]

01:21:23   Hart I think maybe and it ends and they [TS]

01:21:26   they bicycle words and music music thank [TS]

01:21:29   you and so you give and so you revisit [TS]

01:21:31   this man's actually biography realize [TS]

01:21:33   that so basically this really incredibly [TS]

01:21:36   huge and troubling problems that he had [TS]

01:21:38   especially for a man like a man of that [TS]

01:21:40   age that that period of that period of [TS]

01:21:42   time of history and you basically try to [TS]

01:21:44   say well the thing all these played by [TS]

01:21:46   making for anyone to say he's troubled [TS]

01:21:48   because he's short [TS]

01:21:50   yeah everybody i think i think they're [TS]

01:21:53   so I think there's something to it i [TS]

01:21:55   think that you do have to have an [TS]

01:21:56   experience with these kind of movies in [TS]

01:21:58   order to like them [TS]

01:21:59   because I do Jason I absolutely respect [TS]

01:22:01   what you're saying because it doesn't [TS]

01:22:03   hold together there's a lot of real [TS]

01:22:05   Marky there's there's a lot of numbers [TS]

01:22:06   that you're not really gonna like [TS]

01:22:08   but if you are used to the idea that i'm [TS]

01:22:10   not gonna expect it's like it's like a [TS]

01:22:12   Transformers movie I'm not mrs. imac [TS]

01:22:14   native sit down four characters and [TS]

01:22:16   stories [TS]

01:22:17   I'm just I'm just I'm just here to see a [TS]

01:22:18   sequence of action sequences i'm going [TS]

01:22:20   to individually like I i do want to use [TS]

01:22:22   this exploit this to talk about no [TS]

01:22:24   reason to mention this is my favorite [TS]

01:22:26   one deep in my heart goodnight [TS]

01:22:28   mid-fifties it's a supposedly a [TS]

01:22:30   biography of Sigmund Romberg but it [TS]

01:22:32   seemed as though they took every a-list [TS]

01:22:34   mmmm GM Musical star who had two weeks [TS]

01:22:37   on book and said guess what gene kelly [TS]

01:22:39   you're going to do one number for this [TS]

01:22:41   musical citrus did probably one of the [TS]

01:22:43   most fantastic musical numbers she has [TS]

01:22:46   ever done on screen to this day it's [TS]

01:22:49   like but it's like the hairs my back my [TS]

01:22:51   next pick up when I see her dancing in [TS]

01:22:53   this number and so that that's what you [TS]

01:22:55   get out of it you say I'm going to [TS]

01:22:56   simply like to allow the I'm gonna allow [TS]

01:22:58   myself to sit through the the quote [TS]

01:23:00   dramatic parts of it and the quote [TS]

01:23:01   comedic parts of it that mean what's the [TS]

01:23:03   name of that movie it's called deep in [TS]

01:23:04   my heart [TS]

01:23:05   okay well watch that instead of Yankee [TS]

01:23:07   Doodle Dandy so I so that it's Phil you [TS]

01:23:11   said that you said that Yankee Doodle [TS]

01:23:13   Dandy there's not a lot of conflict [TS]

01:23:14   actually the one the one bit of conflict [TS]

01:23:15   that i found here is that this is it [TS]

01:23:17   strikes me that what the argument this [TS]

01:23:20   movie is making is against cultural [TS]

01:23:23   elites and that and that and at georgian [TS]

01:23:28   cohan is a popular entertainer and that [TS]

01:23:32   he meets resistance by forces that are [TS]

01:23:36   trying to maintain the entertainment [TS]

01:23:38   status quo those people who are inviting [TS]

01:23:40   them to Broadway but he gets out of line [TS]

01:23:42   and so they don't invite him because [TS]

01:23:43   he's not going to play by their rules [TS]

01:23:45   and there's the line and we get to [TS]

01:23:48   Broadway you know the the ad for a [TS]

01:23:50   conversation actually has an undertone [TS]

01:23:52   of that like wow this cone guy thinks [TS]

01:23:54   he's so great and then the line that [TS]

01:23:56   really hammers at home as he says who am [TS]

01:23:58   i I'm just a regular guy who knows what [TS]

01:24:00   regular guys like and I felt like that [TS]

01:24:02   was the message of this movie was [TS]

01:24:03   essentially George Cohen is great [TS]

01:24:05   because he's a regular American not one [TS]

01:24:07   of these fancy big city entertainment [TS]

01:24:09   industry types who [TS]

01:24:12   like highfalutin errors and things like [TS]

01:24:14   he just have the Broadway guy you want [TS]

01:24:15   to have a beer with my polling numbers [TS]

01:24:18   are great i'm just an American Russa who [TS]

01:24:21   is bryce patriotic songs and I don't get [TS]

01:24:23   into all that fancy stuff and I I felt [TS]

01:24:25   like that was actually that was [TS]

01:24:27   throughout that was sort of like the one [TS]

01:24:29   thing that i glean from the meaning of [TS]

01:24:31   this movie was a cohan was popularised [TS]

01:24:33   the populists and a regular guy and and [TS]

01:24:36   not like some of that other kind of [TS]

01:24:38   entertainment you have maybe totally [TS]

01:24:39   rethink this movie but don't mind if [TS]

01:24:43   that's a point there seriously trying to [TS]

01:24:44   make them they really really buried it [TS]

01:24:47   well I mean it is no big that was just [TS]

01:24:49   that was the under I think it's not even [TS]

01:24:51   the point you're trying to make as much [TS]

01:24:52   as I I think that's my perception from [TS]

01:24:54   this of who cohan either was or who they [TS]

01:24:58   wanted to portray a mass was an every [TS]

01:25:00   man who was a regular guy he understood [TS]

01:25:03   what regular guys liked that was very [TS]

01:25:05   much his face so yeah it's very [TS]

01:25:08   plausible that was just intentional from [TS]

01:25:11   the get go there there's a scene which [TS]

01:25:13   is my second favorite scene after the [TS]

01:25:15   horrible framing device where he has his [TS]

01:25:18   horrible flop where he tries to do a [TS]

01:25:20   dramatic Broadway number and he's he's [TS]

01:25:25   give it to me straight dad evil have [TS]

01:25:27   always given it to me straight [TS]

01:25:28   well son we can all have a horrible [TS]

01:25:29   failure sometimes and so he even eats [TS]

01:25:32   always have this horrible failure [TS]

01:25:34   failure and he's trying to cope with [TS]

01:25:35   that and then the Lusitania get sunk [TS]

01:25:38   that very night and there's a voiceover [TS]

01:25:40   with him talking to President well I [TS]

01:25:43   guess that's what we get for not writing [TS]

01:25:45   flag-waving song where it's oh if only [TS]

01:25:48   we had written another version of its a [TS]

01:25:50   grand old flag because then the [TS]

01:25:52   Lusitania was never have been sunk and [TS]

01:25:54   Archduke Ferdinand will you know where [TS]

01:25:57   every time we get a little comfortable [TS]

01:25:59   and everything's okay and then somebody [TS]

01:26:00   takes a shot at us so it's time to write [TS]

01:26:02   more patriotic songs trying to try to [TS]

01:26:05   bamboozle some more teenage boys and [TS]

01:26:07   getting killed [TS]

01:26:08   haha so song writers write any songs to [TS]

01:26:11   keep things for speaking keep things [TS]

01:26:13   being okay let's maintain don't take [TS]

01:26:17   your eye off the ball [TS]

01:26:18   yep good good words to live by there the [TS]

01:26:21   other things that I want to mention i [TS]

01:26:22   want to mention how this movie handles [TS]

01:26:24   the passage of time there's a what [TS]

01:26:25   think it's actually kind of a clever [TS]

01:26:26   montage where they paid panning across [TS]

01:26:28   times square and you can see that the [TS]

01:26:30   years are changing and and time is [TS]

01:26:32   marching on because you'll see like that [TS]

01:26:34   this is the play of of 1937 and and then [TS]

01:26:37   it will say voted you know one 1938 [TS]

01:26:40   award or whatever and and it goes on a [TS]

01:26:43   little long but I I thought that [TS]

01:26:44   especially for the time it was a fairly [TS]

01:26:46   sophisticated way of showing the passage [TS]

01:26:49   of time through his career [TS]

01:26:51   that's a nice change from the spinning [TS]

01:26:52   newspaper thing yeah but however early [TS]

01:26:55   on there is one of the most ham-handed [TS]

01:26:56   timing things I've ever seen a movie [TS]

01:26:58   that we're we're early very early in [TS]

01:27:00   pictured a pan past the building that [TS]

01:27:02   just has a big sign on it this is 1878 [TS]

01:27:05   and I think what is that for are they [TS]

01:27:09   just flash stating on the building just [TS]

01:27:11   some point they were very happy and 1878 [TS]

01:27:14   to have erected that building back in [TS]

01:27:16   the 19th century people to know what [TS]

01:27:18   year it was says in 1877 the building [TS]

01:27:20   burned to the ground and then a guy [TS]

01:27:22   reaches up and tears off this [TS]

01:27:24   yeah sure everything every year they [TS]

01:27:25   pull it that was not so good but the [TS]

01:27:27   later one was pretty good and then I [TS]

01:27:28   wanted to mention my other favorite [TS]

01:27:31   scene from this movie Phil is the scene [TS]

01:27:33   where he's retired he's gone into [TS]

01:27:35   retirement and he's in like his hammock [TS]

01:27:36   or whatever and then and then some [TS]

01:27:38   teenagers appear and they don't know who [TS]

01:27:40   he is and they and they sing a popular [TS]

01:27:43   song of the day which is nothing like [TS]

01:27:45   over there or jeepers creepers it's [TS]

01:27:47   jeepers creepers not over there it's a [TS]

01:27:49   grand old flag it's just these are these [TS]

01:27:51   are beatniks these are hippies you know [TS]

01:27:53   but not yet but they would be eventually [TS]

01:27:55   they're just teenagers and he is [TS]

01:27:58   outraged by these teenagers who don't [TS]

01:28:01   appreciate him or know anything about [TS]

01:28:02   him or the entertainment industry and [TS]

01:28:04   they also don't know how to decode the [TS]

01:28:05   obscure variety Daily Variety headline [TS]

01:28:08   format so that that's a hilariously [TS]

01:28:11   weird scene although it seems kind of [TS]

01:28:12   amazing that in 1942 people would have [TS]

01:28:15   completely forgiven the kids would have [TS]

01:28:16   completely forgotten about over there a [TS]

01:28:19   grand old flag because I'm certainly [TS]

01:28:22   aware of them [TS]

01:28:23   I don't know hey uh are we gonna talk [TS]

01:28:25   are we going to talk about that that [TS]

01:28:27   seem that difficult scene we're going to [TS]

01:28:29   mention that scene oh yeah there's a [TS]

01:28:31   black facing here although although it's [TS]

01:28:34   bri its brief and it i was doing that [TS]

01:28:37   1878 sign it's taking [TS]

01:28:39   place in like 80 or 85 it is it is it is [TS]

01:28:43   accurate for what the entertainment [TS]

01:28:45   would have been with his family at that [TS]

01:28:47   point at the same time yes there's about [TS]

01:28:49   30 seconds where they're in blackface i [TS]

01:28:51   mentioned this on Twitter and several [TS]

01:28:53   people like there's no black face seen [TS]

01:28:54   that movie yeah I'm not God and then I [TS]

01:28:57   say to them so in holiday and remember [TS]

01:28:59   the blackberry seat see Molly and they [TS]

01:29:01   say nearly movement watching it on TV [TS]

01:29:03   right yeah that's the thing though is [TS]

01:29:06   there they're going for accuracy with [TS]

01:29:07   all these musical numbers which is why [TS]

01:29:09   they're stage so boring no no it's is [TS]

01:29:11   also at that time the the someone point [TS]

01:29:14   me to wikipedia has a list called list [TS]

01:29:17   of entertainers known to performed in [TS]

01:29:19   blackface and it goes on and on and on [TS]

01:29:21   so there are many many films that we [TS]

01:29:24   probably think we're familiar with that [TS]

01:29:25   maybe we're not produced in a shown even [TS]

01:29:28   in their unedited modern form there's [TS]

01:29:30   some here that i do not recall ever [TS]

01:29:31   seeing black basin and I thought I've [TS]

01:29:33   seen on AMC so yes it is a thing of that [TS]

01:29:35   time is not as egregious holiday and [TS]

01:29:37   which two votes in terrible terrible [TS]

01:29:39   horrible long Long's one of my favorite [TS]

01:29:42   movies is duck soup [TS]

01:29:44   yes watch it every year and i honestly [TS]

01:29:48   think we should probably watch it on [TS]

01:29:49   this we should but that there are some [TS]

01:29:52   jokes in in a duck soup that you know [TS]

01:29:56   they were don't pass muster for us here [TS]

01:29:59   in the 21st century that that are kinda [TS]

01:30:02   awkward that you used to sort of cringe [TS]

01:30:05   when you hear him and I actually once [TS]

01:30:08   watch duck soup in a theater in oakland [TS]

01:30:10   oh why we're where they mean where they [TS]

01:30:13   made these the there's now been burned [TS]

01:30:15   to the ground [TS]

01:30:15   ya know the audience did the audience [TS]

01:30:18   did not react well although beforehand [TS]

01:30:20   they showed a UH a newsreel from the [TS]

01:30:23   nineteen fifties that featured the Shah [TS]

01:30:25   of Iran and the Shah of Iran actually [TS]

01:30:27   got more cat calls than the than the [TS]

01:30:29   racially tinged humor of the nineteen [TS]

01:30:31   thirties Marx Brothers movie so take [TS]

01:30:33   from that what you will [TS]

01:30:35   anyhow I i guess this is a roundabout [TS]

01:30:37   way of saying for me yeah it's an [TS]

01:30:39   unfortunate uh [TS]

01:30:41   a relic of our past it's not as [TS]

01:30:43   uncomfortable as the holiday in scene is [TS]

01:30:47   as images but no there are few things in [TS]

01:30:50   life that are more in comfortable and [TS]

01:30:52   yet i enjoy holiday and more than enjoy [TS]

01:30:54   Yankee Doodle yes that's true [TS]

01:30:56   absolutely there's a show there was I [TS]

01:30:59   wanted to see her ever read up that [TS]

01:31:02   Donald O'Connor and and very Ellen [TS]

01:31:05   actually did a movie at musical together [TS]

01:31:07   like just as they were supposed to [TS]

01:31:09   before Donald Connor got sick for four [TS]

01:31:11   white Christmas and so i'm hoping i [TS]

01:31:13   watch this and courses on youtube great [TS]

01:31:15   i'll see it and enjoying it be and then [TS]

01:31:17   12 minutes in it's revealed that the big [TS]

01:31:20   that the big musical thing is that while [TS]

01:31:22   we're going to reveal we're gonna revive [TS]

01:31:24   the old minstrel show tradition John 30 [TS]

01:31:26   minutes of the dance again blackface and [TS]

01:31:29   number after number after number and [TS]

01:31:31   this was shot like 1953 like I feel like [TS]

01:31:35   a hard to believe that fell into the [TS]

01:31:37   public domain and no one wanted to [TS]

01:31:39   register that trademark is there is it [TS]

01:31:41   like if tentative if there's [TS]

01:31:43   colorization technology is there like [TS]

01:31:45   decolorization we can just basically [TS]

01:31:47   take the makeup off these people so we [TS]

01:31:49   can watch this these numbers without [TS]

01:31:51   cringing this was incidentally the first [TS]

01:31:53   film to be colorized by ted turner and [TS]

01:31:55   is really wow that's right Ted Turner [TS]

01:31:59   had an elk his by style and it was [TS]

01:32:03   raptured bison yeah he's got a lot of [TS]

01:32:05   that too actually i saw is what you [TS]

01:32:07   should ask her out and Rudolph the [TS]

01:32:08   red-nosed reindeer [TS]

01:32:09   I was in Montana and I saw Ted Turner [TS]

01:32:11   elk were driving out near his property [TS]

01:32:12   and the milk so they're gonna go letting [TS]

01:32:14   elkin yell King thank you [TS]

01:32:17   so there's a couple things i do like [TS]

01:32:19   here uh I like the fact that Mary is [TS]

01:32:21   only on stage because the dog act got [TS]

01:32:23   drunk himself probably got them drunk so [TS]

01:32:28   I appreciate that but but she sings his [TS]

01:32:31   song which is perfectly fine but that [TS]

01:32:33   doesn't matter because you're not [TS]

01:32:34   supposed to follow to disobey the [TS]

01:32:36   managers directions and so he says i [TS]

01:32:38   don't care if they're drunk they're [TS]

01:32:39   going on i like i like the bit where [TS]

01:32:42   George's dad spanks is but and says [TS]

01:32:45   here's one place without any talent [TS]

01:32:46   before he does it which limited the [TS]

01:32:49   states and i were exchanging bone know [TS]

01:32:51   about the notion of corporal punishment [TS]

01:32:52   during those scenes while all tweeting [TS]

01:32:54   yes [TS]

01:32:55   the desirability or non desirability of [TS]

01:32:57   corporal punishment I and i have to say [TS]

01:32:58   he kind of turned around he was a bratty [TS]

01:33:00   little kid who really kind of ruined [TS]

01:33:01   like the family's entire career [TS]

01:33:02   trajectory because he was being a jerk [TS]

01:33:05   so I can you know i'm not going to [TS]

01:33:07   advocate the hitting your kid but but if [TS]

01:33:10   it you know he kind of key kind of [TS]

01:33:11   deserved it anyway I am and he did so he [TS]

01:33:14   confesses gonna call the president [TS]

01:33:16   yes mr. president absolved him of that [TS]

01:33:18   they skipped the scene Roosevelt [TS]

01:33:20   actually put him over his knee [TS]

01:33:22   I like less the creepy old fat german [TS]

01:33:26   producer who says we have in the women [TS]

01:33:29   little rose better that is Carl the [TS]

01:33:33   waiter from Casablanca that is like the [TS]

01:33:35   one part where there's a character with [TS]

01:33:37   any actual character so I'm give him his [TS]

01:33:39   props for that is the Hungarian what's [TS]

01:33:41   the sk David knows this sec Cal [TS]

01:33:44   wonderful actor and kagney hated being [TS]

01:33:47   on screen with him because he thought [TS]

01:33:49   that he was being upstaged right he was [TS]

01:33:51   yes and and lastly last scene i'd like [TS]

01:33:54   to mention just another part of the [TS]

01:33:55   times I where they walk out of the death [TS]

01:33:58   bedroom is Georges saying goodbye to his [TS]

01:34:00   father and the guy i'm not sure who he [TS]

01:34:03   is [TS]

01:34:03   cigarette doc the doc says why sure [TS]

01:34:06   lights it's super-handsome along yeah [TS]

01:34:10   well sure yeah cigarettes help you [TS]

01:34:14   grieve yeah I guess so [TS]

01:34:16   so uh yeah so this was a movie that I i [TS]

01:34:20   actually was entertained sort of [TS]

01:34:22   watching it but i don't think i would [TS]

01:34:24   recommend other than the fact to say I [TS]

01:34:26   James khaki i did a great job he did it [TS]

01:34:30   was it was there for all the cheesiness [TS]

01:34:32   that's in this and I don't think the the [TS]

01:34:35   Georgian cohan songbook is particularly [TS]

01:34:38   strong idea kagney was great [TS]

01:34:41   it's that it's definitely of a time it [TS]

01:34:44   is palpably of a time in fact the point [TS]

01:34:46   where I feel bad really ripping on it [TS]

01:34:50   too much because it definitely feels [TS]

01:34:52   like it is a competently produced [TS]

01:34:56   product of its era and does what it [TS]

01:34:59   intends to do I think that we are in a [TS]

01:35:02   much more sophisticated and and [TS]

01:35:06   questioning and cynical era where it [TS]

01:35:08   it's difficult to take some of it [TS]

01:35:09   seriously but even through all of that [TS]

01:35:11   time and all those cultural changes you [TS]

01:35:14   if you were an alien drop down with no [TS]

01:35:16   knowledge of history at all and you [TS]

01:35:17   watch this should be like who's this [TS]

01:35:19   actor you know cuz Cagney is that good [TS]

01:35:21   is that good in this I enjoy this movie [TS]

01:35:23   a lot but really just for kagney luckily [TS]

01:35:26   he's in the center of the screen like [TS]

01:35:28   ninety percent of the top if they took [TS]

01:35:32   out all the musical numbers and just [TS]

01:35:34   left kagney acting parts that would be a [TS]

01:35:36   better film by 5i agree would be better [TS]

01:35:38   because he's talking drives me nuts [TS]

01:35:40   he sounds like he's sounds like Bob [TS]

01:35:41   Dylan before the cigarettes and Yankee [TS]

01:35:46   Doodle Dandy that doesn't work for me [TS]

01:35:49   I have nothing bad to say about this [TS]

01:35:51   movie I enjoy it almost completely huh [TS]

01:35:56   all right now once again you're wrong [TS]

01:35:58   because I'm completely out of my mind by [TS]

01:36:02   this movie although i did i did [TS]

01:36:03   appreciate Cagney's acting and his [TS]

01:36:06   dancing ability and his well not so much [TS]

01:36:08   the singing although he does singing [TS]

01:36:10   sounds okay so i really wish they had [TS]

01:36:12   chosen to whitewash that part of cohan's [TS]

01:36:14   life in addition to the rest of it but [TS]

01:36:17   yeah I just you know it's I like Jason I [TS]

01:36:21   feel bad bashing the film because I [TS]

01:36:22   understand it is of its time but at the [TS]

01:36:26   same time it just doesn't work anymore [TS]

01:36:28   I'm sorry I mean I I like it I much [TS]

01:36:31   prefer Fred and Ginger films if I'm [TS]

01:36:34   gonna go for black and white musical but [TS]

01:36:37   you know I have a soft spot for but the [TS]

01:36:39   thing that it always reminds me of an [TS]

01:36:41   eye [TS]

01:36:42   I've always wondered if this was an [TS]

01:36:43   intentional thing they did because I i [TS]

01:36:46   think it was also a Warner Brothers film [TS]

01:36:48   that there's that loony toon cartoon [TS]

01:36:52   where bugs is telling his life story is [TS]

01:36:54   history and in showbiz and the whole [TS]

01:36:57   first part of it is now when we started [TS]

01:36:59   as a chorus boy and they just keep doing [TS]

01:37:01   the same number every show like we're [TS]

01:37:03   the boys and we hope you liked our show [TS]

01:37:06   yeah and it's like and then I was going [TS]

01:37:08   to go this show with the Bozeman and [TS]

01:37:11   over and over and over again and he [TS]

01:37:12   finally comes back in a Musical and at [TS]

01:37:14   the end of the cartoonists where's the [TS]

01:37:16   boys in the chorus [TS]

01:37:18   noon and then I've always thought that [TS]

01:37:20   because it's because it's the same [TS]

01:37:22   framing device it's not the president [TS]

01:37:24   but it's it's telling the life story [TS]

01:37:26   it's the the same vaudeville stuff [TS]

01:37:29   throughout and I've always wondered if [TS]

01:37:31   that was intentional [TS]

01:37:32   it was definitely i don't know if it was [TS]

01:37:33   intentionally based on that movie but I [TS]

01:37:35   die I do think this is a trope again I i [TS]

01:37:38   loved i love to eat I love TCM i love I [TS]

01:37:41   actually do like these sort of jukebox [TS]

01:37:43   movies and that really fits the give us [TS]

01:37:46   give us give them the slightest framing [TS]

01:37:48   device they need because no one cares [TS]

01:37:50   about that but not the end that [TS]

01:37:52   production that shouldn't let this movie [TS]

01:37:53   off the hook because mean you mentioned [TS]

01:37:54   the RKO RKO black-and-white different [TS]

01:37:57   surgeons Rogers movies those are also [TS]

01:37:59   musicals but they have a plot that goes [TS]

01:38:02   from start to finish where you have [TS]

01:38:04   characters that you like to follow and [TS]

01:38:05   lots of comedy going on so they don't [TS]

01:38:07   you don't have to just get to the dance [TS]

01:38:08   number i just watched one of those a [TS]

01:38:10   couple hours ago it was the story of [TS]

01:38:12   vernon Irene castle [TS]

01:38:14   oh that was fantastic film it is but it [TS]

01:38:17   was weird because it has multiple dance [TS]

01:38:19   numbers that are supposed to be bad [TS]

01:38:22   yea ND weird watching Fred Astaire and [TS]

01:38:24   Ginger Rogers dance bad on purpose so [TS]

01:38:26   that wasn't for my own / tweeted this [TS]

01:38:28   because i'm watching the movie and I [TS]

01:38:29   thought that's the film that this [TS]

01:38:31   reminds me of except that film is [TS]

01:38:33   incredibly good at the story arc there's [TS]

01:38:35   conflict and there's supply won't spoil [TS]

01:38:38   the ending well I actually disagree the [TS]

01:38:40   story arc in that movie is all messed up [TS]

01:38:42   yes yeah I the pacing is weird [TS]

01:38:46   they spend seventy percent of the movie [TS]

01:38:49   struggling and then hit for instance [TS]

01:38:51   wild success after a 20-minute all but [TS]

01:38:54   it was it was a huge propaganda film was [TS]

01:38:56   actually made for propaganda purposes it [TS]

01:38:59   was the last one they need for RKO [TS]

01:39:02   I think so yeah and then of course [TS]

01:39:04   there's the ending which also i will not [TS]

01:39:07   spoil it but it was nothing really [TS]

01:39:08   fitted with the story if any uh final [TS]

01:39:12   yankee doodle dandy thoughts behind i [TS]

01:39:15   have a few alright [TS]

01:39:18   laying on his film hello young people [TS]

01:39:23   hi Phil you've heard a lot to you heard [TS]

01:39:26   us talking tonight about Yankee Doodle [TS]

01:39:28   Dandy as if it's a movie that you should [TS]

01:39:30   watch what I'm sure have [TS]

01:39:32   gosh feel I did hear that really the [TS]

01:39:35   idea behind old movie club was that it's [TS]

01:39:37   here are some movies that hold up over [TS]

01:39:39   time and that that that you can go back [TS]

01:39:42   and look at and go oh boy this is an [TS]

01:39:45   entertaining movie even though it's 40 [TS]

01:39:47   50 60 years old this is not yankee [TS]

01:39:49   doodle dandy and if you are looking to [TS]

01:39:53   see a great performance by James Cagney [TS]

01:39:56   was a fine actor go see white heat go [TS]

01:39:59   see the public enemy if you want to see [TS]

01:40:01   him doing a role that he's not really [TS]

01:40:03   associated with it with Josie 123 which [TS]

01:40:06   is not a great movie but it's a fun [TS]

01:40:08   Billy Wilder comment comedy and he he's [TS]

01:40:11   good in it go see mr. Roberts where he [TS]

01:40:14   he plays the villain character quite [TS]

01:40:16   delightfully there are lots of movies [TS]

01:40:18   that you can see that aren't Yankee [TS]

01:40:20   Doodle Dandy America appreciate James [TS]

01:40:23   Cagney as an actor [TS]

01:40:25   there are lots of movies that you can [TS]

01:40:26   see that will make you appreciate [TS]

01:40:27   America basically every movie made in [TS]

01:40:31   America that isn't Yankee Doodle Tampa [TS]

01:40:33   although i will say you should probably [TS]

01:40:35   watch 30 to 40 seconds of this just so [TS]

01:40:38   you can go oh wow [TS]

01:40:39   kagney can dance go onto youtube if you [TS]

01:40:42   want to see kagney dance you should [TS]

01:40:44   watch footlight parade which is a much [TS]

01:40:46   better movie or or the seven little foys [TS]

01:40:48   and has some crazy crazy Busby see those [TS]

01:40:53   two are go on youtube and do a search [TS]

01:40:55   for him doing I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy [TS]

01:40:58   or give my regards to Broadway you've [TS]

01:41:01   seen the good parts of the movie so what [TS]

01:41:03   i will recommend is if you if you would [TS]

01:41:05   like to if you would like to see [TS]

01:41:07   something inspiring and patriotic on the [TS]

01:41:09   fourth of July turn off your television [TS]

01:41:12   walk outside and watch the fireworks [TS]

01:41:14   because that will be a better show here [TS]

01:41:17   to talk about your drunken dead workin [TS]

01:41:19   with your uncle about the barbecue fire [TS]

01:41:20   right then Yankee Doodle Dandy anyway [TS]

01:41:23   the Andy okay oh I Wilson since we're [TS]

01:41:26   talking to the kids today [TS]

01:41:27   yes i will i will say that you know [TS]

01:41:30   this is you I think that you will enjoy [TS]

01:41:32   this because this is much like how you [TS]

01:41:34   remember kids like how you you go on [TS]

01:41:36   read it and you find out you find [TS]

01:41:39   yourself talking about your video links [TS]

01:41:40   that are really really good and then in [TS]

01:41:42   between there's like maybe five or ten [TS]

01:41:44   minutes so clicking on like picture [TS]

01:41:45   links and then ended and gifs the [TS]

01:41:47   animated gifts that aren't very good at [TS]

01:41:49   all [TS]

01:41:50   this is exactly like this you will find [TS]

01:41:52   you will feel for you will find out but [TS]

01:41:54   a really nice for five secs and sets [TS]

01:41:57   eclipse on this mule really really like [TS]

01:41:59   with a lot of things about cats with [TS]

01:42:01   fruit on their head that you have seen a [TS]

01:42:02   million times before you don't really [TS]

01:42:04   understand and don't try to make sense [TS]

01:42:05   of it as a sequence of entertainment but [TS]

01:42:07   enjoy the bits that are there to be [TS]

01:42:09   enjoyed because there are their kids and [TS]

01:42:11   they are there to be very very much [TS]

01:42:13   enjoyed also if the President of the [TS]

01:42:14   United States summons you to the White [TS]

01:42:16   House in a rainstorm in the middle of [TS]

01:42:18   the night and says that it's going to be [TS]

01:42:19   to give you a medal [TS]

01:42:21   don't go all that that's another good [TS]

01:42:24   point and i also remember that like [TS]

01:42:26   you're not supposed to know that like he [TS]

01:42:28   has polio and can't get up but [TS]

01:42:29   definitely take that opportunity to like [TS]

01:42:31   rifle through like all the other drawers [TS]

01:42:33   in the oval office because what's he [TS]

01:42:34   going to do is behind the desk and [TS]

01:42:37   there's no see there's no secret service [TS]

01:42:38   they're gonna leave you all alone to [TS]

01:42:40   dance down those stairs [TS]

01:42:41   you're dressed up as Roosevelt you could [TS]

01:42:43   kill him and take him out take over the [TS]

01:42:44   presidency [TS]

01:42:46   I'm sorry this was not three days this [TS]

01:42:48   was not three days of the kagney guys [TS]

01:42:50   yeah when you think he'd want to be [TS]

01:42:51   played by kagney like you're subtracting [TS]

01:42:54   a wheelchair hear somebody who wants to [TS]

01:42:56   portray you as somebody who runs back [TS]

01:42:57   and forth across the stage all the time [TS]

01:42:59   I think you'd like to be taller though [TS]

01:43:01   it's it's the movie Dave just 40 years [TS]

01:43:03   earlier [TS]

01:43:04   ok anything more about Courtney Weaver [TS]

01:43:08   is many degrees hotter than Eleanor [TS]

01:43:10   Roosevelt i should say alright what is [TS]

01:43:12   your user you've been reading my [TS]

01:43:16   fanfiction again i continue to like this [TS]

01:43:19   movie [TS]

01:43:20   alright so what here's what here's [TS]

01:43:22   what's happening we have learned some [TS]

01:43:24   things about old movie club we've [TS]

01:43:26   resolved to talk about the about the the [TS]

01:43:29   Marx Brothers in a future edition so [TS]

01:43:31   there's hope for the future kids but [TS]

01:43:33   it's going to be loved happy and the big [TS]

01:43:36   screen sorry everybody [TS]

01:43:37   haha what exactly what i could do a [TS]

01:43:40   night in casablanca oh god no [TS]

01:43:43   huh that doesn't know how do Casablanca [TS]

01:43:45   and then a night in casablanca you know [TS]

01:43:47   if you do a day at the races we get our [TS]

01:43:49   Marx Brothers blackface number as well [TS]

01:43:50   as well that's tree there is that that's [TS]

01:43:53   true and that those movies were shouting [TS]

01:43:55   at the screen you're Jewish in these in [TS]

01:43:58   early 2020s century do you not [TS]

01:44:01   understand what you're doing here [TS]

01:44:03   they didn't not now apparently not [TS]

01:44:06   we're not Jewish one of them's Italian [TS]

01:44:08   he's not Italian it's chico it's chico [TS]

01:44:11   anyway this is this is all what you're [TS]

01:44:12   going to get in our exciting marx [TS]

01:44:15   brothers episode when that happens [TS]

01:44:17   alright well that wraps up this edition [TS]

01:44:19   of the old movie club i'm so glad we had [TS]

01:44:21   this topical idea and that Twitter told [TS]

01:44:24   us to do this right Phil yeah that's [TS]

01:44:26   great thanks people you really you [TS]

01:44:28   really did us a solid their people who [TS]

01:44:31   on twitter i enjoyed this I'm sorry if [TS]

01:44:34   you had a bad time if I want to add a [TS]

01:44:36   part in that i'm sorry but i enjoyed [TS]

01:44:38   this was a very good podcast yeah we [TS]

01:44:40   have reason to be proud of this i enjoy [TS]

01:44:42   i enjoyed watching these movies I'd not [TS]

01:44:44   seen either of these movies before and [TS]

01:44:45   so at it [TS]

01:44:46   old movie club served its fundamental [TS]

01:44:48   purpose was to make me watch things that [TS]

01:44:50   I've never seen before the job done [TS]

01:44:53   okay once again like Reddit videos tabs [TS]

01:44:56   some things that you wish you could [TS]

01:44:58   unsee [TS]

01:44:58   not that I was so I'm educated i was [TS]

01:45:02   educated by this excellent excellent [TS]

01:45:04   let's not let's not put this episode [TS]

01:45:06   into a shame hole and then cover it up [TS]

01:45:08   because i think that we can be very very [TS]

01:45:10   pleased with ourselves that somewhere [TS]

01:45:12   the butter zone just by chance we need [TS]

01:45:14   to keep that shame hole open because i'm [TS]

01:45:16   sure we'll need it [TS]

01:45:17   let's see is the is the movie shame hold [TS]

01:45:19   on come available because if not that's [TS]

01:45:21   a good idea for podcast that this [TS]

01:45:23   episode is not canon this is not part of [TS]

01:45:25   the the the old movie club story arc [TS]

01:45:29   this is a crisis on infinite old movie [TS]

01:45:32   clubs [TS]

01:45:33   I'd like to I'd like to take a moment to [TS]

01:45:37   tell you about our sponsor [TS]

01:45:39   models.com the same hole beautiful you [TS]

01:45:44   really should read that at the top so [TS]

01:45:46   they couldn't back out after they heard [TS]

01:45:47   the widescreen shame whole something a [TS]

01:45:49   pretty good podcast name any flies too [TS]

01:45:53   many flies we learned we've grown we've [TS]

01:45:55   seen to move [TS]

01:45:56   these and we can move on with our lives [TS]

01:45:57   now and I like to thank my participants [TS]

01:46:00   fellow participants in the old movie [TS]

01:46:02   club of of tonight of our special fourth [TS]

01:46:05   of July episode Steve let's thanks for [TS]

01:46:07   being here and watching the movies [TS]

01:46:09   oh thank you Jason and if I said [TS]

01:46:11   anything accidental to make you mad [TS]

01:46:13   I want you to know I'm darn glad i did [TS]

01:46:15   alright excellent work [TS]

01:46:16   David Laura thank you for being here and [TS]

01:46:18   thank you and i will see you all in new [TS]

01:46:21   brunswick through the drinking in the [TS]

01:46:22   horse all right Glenn fleischmann thank [TS]

01:46:24   you for coming back on as as you have [TS]

01:46:27   been like 12 episodes in a row good job [TS]

01:46:30   high five [TS]

01:46:31   thank you for tolerating the everyone I [TS]

01:46:33   you don't know me haha [TS]

01:46:37   Monty Ashley thank you for being here [TS]

01:46:40   everybody but me is wrong [TS]

01:46:42   all right offensive perfectly valid [TS]

01:46:44   opinion the whole I suppose [TS]

01:46:46   Andy and not coplanar as always please [TS]

01:46:49   mr. snow must you start talking house [TS]

01:46:52   meant to sleep and of course the the guy [TS]

01:46:57   who usually is responsible for these but [TS]

01:46:59   not really this one Phil Michaels thank [TS]

01:47:00   you [TS]

01:47:01   my mother thinks you my father thinks [TS]

01:47:03   you and screw you and Helen my sister [TS]

01:47:08   she died like 15 years ago and we didn't [TS]

01:47:10   even put it in the movie no happened off [TS]

01:47:13   camera and I NS for me your host I've [TS]

01:47:16   stained courteously couldn't call and [TS]

01:47:19   thank you for listening to being [TS]

01:47:21   comfortable but the hell goes on over [TS]

01:47:23   there [TS]

01:47:24   the podcasting studio we'll see you next [TS]

01:47:26   time [TS]