The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► you know how to do to get this to happen

00:00:01 ◼   ► what you have to do a reboot into my

00:00:04 ◼   ► SuperDuper clone really yeah because i

00:00:07 ◼   ► just upgraded 10-8 i was like i might

00:00:09 ◼   ► upgrade every other computer that is a

00:00:11 ◼   ► 10-8 without a problem i said are all

00:00:12 ◼   ► this looks like it's gonna be a cakewalk

00:00:14 ◼   ► I'll just upgrade my main machine to ten

00:00:15 ◼   ► eight and it was going fine until I

00:00:18 ◼   ► tried to use skype and you sounded like

00:00:19 ◼   ► whatever that the voice from the screen

00:00:22 ◼   ► movie haha yeah or girl I I always I

00:00:27 ◼   ► always do my skyping from my macbook air

00:00:29 ◼   ► but that right after i upgraded that

00:00:31 ◼   ► machine to ten eight and first tried to

00:00:32 ◼   ► record a show i forget how many problems

00:00:34 ◼   ► skype gave me it was it was pretty bad

00:00:37 ◼   ► anyway before we get started this is

00:00:39 ◼   ► this is a record this is something we i

00:00:42 ◼   ► do with everybody on the show now is I

00:00:43 ◼   ► need a little bit personal information I

00:00:45 ◼   ► need your mother's maiden name and the

00:00:48 ◼   ► name of the street you grew up on and

00:00:50 ◼   ► your first elementary school about my

00:00:52 ◼   ► pet's name first pet it had the exactly

00:00:54 ◼   ► i need all four of those then yeah it's

00:00:57 ◼   ► always just been weird to me that this

00:00:59 ◼   ► we have all these rules around passwords

00:01:01 ◼   ► and the backup to the backup for like

00:01:03 ◼   ► well in case you forgot your password

00:01:04 ◼   ► the backup is like things people can

00:01:07 ◼   ► easily find out about using the internet

00:01:08 ◼   ► that's like the category of what they

00:01:10 ◼   ► are you know him

00:01:11 ◼   ► of all the things like what color is

00:01:13 ◼   ► your hair what is your eye color you

00:01:15 ◼   ► like you can google for all this stuff a

00:01:17 ◼   ► mother's maid named you kill off your

00:01:19 ◼   ► entire mother's side of the family like

00:01:20 ◼   ► they no longer exist how hard is it to

00:01:22 ◼   ► look up what someone's mother's maiden

00:01:23 ◼   ► name is yeah

00:01:26 ◼   ► and of course know the reason we're

00:01:27 ◼   ► talking about this is the the mat Honan

00:01:29 ◼   ► situation from a week ago was a picture

00:01:32 ◼   ► of my case you want to know his hair

00:01:33 ◼   ► color and eye color

00:01:34 ◼   ► all right go right to the wire story so

00:01:37 ◼   ► the poor guy right there and just look

00:01:39 ◼   ► on his face is like I just lost all the

00:01:41 ◼   ► photos my daughter so that's what that

00:01:43 ◼   ► looks as to me

00:01:44 ◼   ► so anyway long story short I mean I'm

00:01:47 ◼   ► sure everybody listens is probably at

00:01:49 ◼   ► least somewhat familiar with the story

00:01:50 ◼   ► but mat Honan is a lot of Twitter

00:01:52 ◼   ► followers any rights for Wired used to

00:01:54 ◼   ► write for gizmodo i really had like a

00:01:58 ◼   ► war almost like a worst-case scenario

00:02:00 ◼   ► where like saturday afternoon he's

00:02:02 ◼   ► playing with his young daughter and all

00:02:03 ◼   ► of a sudden like starts noticing some

00:02:06 ◼   ► funky things i forget what what came

00:02:07 ◼   ► first but like all the Senators phone

00:02:09 ◼   ► rebooted as I phone rebooted and next

00:02:14 ◼   ► thing you know is his ipad reboots his

00:02:16 ◼   ► macbook air reboots they all get locked

00:02:18 ◼   ► out there all remote wiped and all the

00:02:22 ◼   ► sudden some hacker group starts posting

00:02:24 ◼   ► takes over his twitter account start

00:02:26 ◼   ► posting having just horrible racist and

00:02:29 ◼   ► homophobic and maybe most embarrassing

00:02:32 ◼   ► of all ridiculous hacker leet speak talk

00:02:35 ◼   ► to his Twitter account and long story

00:02:40 ◼   ► short the whole thing happened because

00:02:43 ◼   ► they wanted to mess with his twitter

00:02:44 ◼   ► account and to get his twitter account

00:02:46 ◼   ► they wanted his gmail account and his

00:02:52 ◼   ► gmail account had as his backup is

00:02:57 ◼   ► me.com iCloud email address as I got you

00:03:02 ◼   ► know secondary account and they knew

00:03:04 ◼   ► that they could take that over just by

00:03:06 ◼   ► calling apple and giving them his street

00:03:10 ◼   ► address in the last four digits of his

00:03:12 ◼   ► credit card and they could get the last

00:03:15 ◼   ► four digits of his credit card just by

00:03:17 ◼   ► calling amazon and giving amazon is what

00:03:23 ◼   ► was it i forget what you need to know

00:03:25 ◼   ► like an email address and a shipping

00:03:26 ◼   ► address and then you could say hey i

00:03:28 ◼   ► have a new credit card i just wanted to

00:03:30 ◼   ► add it to my account you give them a

00:03:31 ◼   ► bogus credit card then you call amazon

00:03:35 ◼   ► write back and say I I lost access to my

00:03:39 ◼   ► email I think I've got this right so far

00:03:41 ◼   ► doing yeah you gotta read your stuff I

00:03:43 ◼   ► lost access to my email but I do know

00:03:45 ◼   ► the last four digits of my credit card

00:03:47 ◼   ► which is the bogus one they just gave

00:03:49 ◼   ► you did you just gave amazon not even a

00:03:51 ◼   ► real credit card you did you just go

00:03:53 ◼   ► online and use like a tool that gives

00:03:55 ◼   ► you like a credit card that you know one

00:03:58 ◼   ► that hasn't been verified to make

00:04:00 ◼   ► charges but just the numbers comply with

00:04:04 ◼   ► the rules you know we're like MasterCard

00:04:05 ◼   ► start with a five and pieces start with

00:04:08 ◼   ► a four

00:04:08 ◼   ► couple of other rules at which point

00:04:11 ◼   ► amazon will let you reset your account

00:04:15 ◼   ► to i forget what they do it somehow they

00:04:19 ◼   ► reset your they let you add a new email

00:04:21 ◼   ► address i think they let you log in and

00:04:23 ◼   ► you can't see your credit card numbers

00:04:25 ◼   ► at the login you can see the abbreviated

00:04:27 ◼   ► version right existing credit card

00:04:28 ◼   ► number which is all you need to give

00:04:30 ◼   ► Apple right just this last four digits

00:04:33 ◼   ► going to start out everything except the

00:04:34 ◼   ► last four right and so then you can call

00:04:37 ◼   ► apple back with say i'm mat Honan here's

00:04:40 ◼   ► my home address here's the last four

00:04:43 ◼   ► digits of my count III did you know

00:04:46 ◼   ► please reset my my iCloud password and

00:04:50 ◼   ► then at that point all that all those

00:04:52 ◼   ► dominoes that I just set up over the

00:04:54 ◼   ► last four minutes they all fall down

00:04:56 ◼   ► because now they've got his iCloud

00:04:58 ◼   ► account and they can

00:05:01 ◼   ► they've got the password for that and

00:05:02 ◼   ► then they use that to use the find my

00:05:05 ◼   ► iphone to remote wipe his devices to

00:05:07 ◼   ► lock him out of his computers and then

00:05:09 ◼   ► they had gmail send reset password to

00:05:13 ◼   ► the iCloud account they were control of

00:05:14 ◼   ► which let them take over his gmail and

00:05:17 ◼   ► then they just did it seems like the guy

00:05:19 ◼   ► I can eat as it the thing that most

00:05:21 ◼   ► surprisingly easy wasn't it at least

00:05:23 ◼   ► publicly and writing about it didn't

00:05:25 ◼   ► seem angry about the guys who did this

00:05:26 ◼   ► to him

00:05:27 ◼   ► that's one of those things where like

00:05:28 ◼   ► you're in shock right is it's just it's

00:05:31 ◼   ► just such a huge to thing that just so

00:05:33 ◼   ► unlikely to happen you don't even

00:05:34 ◼   ► imagine happening then also he says many

00:05:38 ◼   ► times that he blames himself and

00:05:39 ◼   ► probably rightly like you don't blame

00:05:42 ◼   ► yourself for getting hacked but you

00:05:43 ◼   ► blame for yourself or having no backups

00:05:44 ◼   ► right that's that's the killer all the

00:05:46 ◼   ► guys wanted to do is take over his

00:05:48 ◼   ► twitter account and mess around with it

00:05:49 ◼   ► which in and of itself would be their

00:05:52 ◼   ► being assholes about it but at least if

00:05:54 ◼   ► that's all that they did all they did

00:05:56 ◼   ► was embarrass him by putting a bunch of

00:05:58 ◼   ► gibberish on his twitter account for 12

00:06:00 ◼   ► hours but the remote wiping of his

00:06:03 ◼   ► computers and they they also like remote

00:06:06 ◼   ► war not remote white but you know did

00:06:08 ◼   ► whatever you do in gmail to say hey just

00:06:10 ◼   ► you know delete everything I have in

00:06:12 ◼   ► here which is right for him like seven

00:06:13 ◼   ► years of email or something like that

00:06:15 ◼   ► boom just to close out the account

00:06:18 ◼   ► that's just spiked well it's not it's

00:06:20 ◼   ► not so much spite because they don't

00:06:22 ◼   ► even

00:06:22 ◼   ► the guy it's just like if you give

00:06:23 ◼   ► hackers if that one's hackers get access

00:06:26 ◼   ► how are you going to resist that like

00:06:27 ◼   ► now you know that the whole idea is like

00:06:29 ◼   ► control and power it's like you know

00:06:31 ◼   ► what I can remotely wipe all these guys

00:06:32 ◼   ► machines because of how we set

00:06:34 ◼   ► everything up that's just the ultimate

00:06:35 ◼   ► in power you're reaching across the

00:06:37 ◼   ► internet and just like massively smiting

00:06:39 ◼   ► this person so it's impossible to resist

00:06:42 ◼   ► I guess so because I guess whatever is

00:06:43 ◼   ► wrong with your with whatever is wrong

00:06:45 ◼   ► with your mind that would make you

00:06:47 ◼   ► wanted to take over someones twitter

00:06:50 ◼   ► account like that it's probably wrong in

00:06:52 ◼   ► the same way where you're going to get

00:06:53 ◼   ► to have a giggle out of remote wiping

00:06:55 ◼   ► their computer and that's that's all you

00:06:57 ◼   ► need

00:06:58 ◼   ► yeah that's just that's just the mindset

00:07:01 ◼   ► but the thing about it is like so we all

00:07:04 ◼   ► heard this story and i think first thing

00:07:07 ◼   ► everyone is looking for like what can i

00:07:08 ◼   ► do to prevent this happening to me

00:07:10 ◼   ► that's why we all right all these

00:07:11 ◼   ► details about how this is akin to that

00:07:13 ◼   ► and you know like is there something I

00:07:16 ◼   ► can do to my setup to make it so this

00:07:18 ◼   ► can't happen to me and I think the worst

00:07:20 ◼   ► part of the story is there's probably

00:07:23 ◼   ► nothing you can do to stop something

00:07:25 ◼   ► similar happening to your not the exact

00:07:27 ◼   ► same thing but something similar because

00:07:29 ◼   ► all you can do is have good backups

00:07:31 ◼   ► obviously but ignoring that having good

00:07:33 ◼   ► backups everything else is like things

00:07:35 ◼   ► that aren't under our control we don't

00:07:37 ◼   ► control amazon's policy for recovering

00:07:40 ◼   ► your credit card or Apple's policy for

00:07:42 ◼   ► how to reset like we don't control any

00:07:43 ◼   ► of that stuff and so does not it does

00:07:46 ◼   ► seem we seem powerless because like i

00:07:48 ◼   ► have good passwords are all different

00:07:51 ◼   ► I have like having a backup gmail

00:07:52 ◼   ► account seems like a good thing I have

00:07:54 ◼   ► you know if I ever need to recover I've

00:07:55 ◼   ► got my backup gmail account like

00:07:57 ◼   ► everything seems to be good and then

00:07:59 ◼   ► that but where we end up getting screwed

00:08:01 ◼   ► is because of things that other people

00:08:02 ◼   ► did that we can't control me probably

00:08:04 ◼   ► never even thought of point like Google

00:08:06 ◼   ► for example is really really encourages

00:08:08 ◼   ► you to have a backup gmail account but

00:08:10 ◼   ► in fact if he didn't he would have been

00:08:11 ◼   ► better off right or if it had been

00:08:14 ◼   ► something other than you know so a

00:08:15 ◼   ► different service that we didn't have as

00:08:18 ◼   ► exploitable rules for password recovery

00:08:21 ◼   ► and it's kinda gets back to the question

00:08:23 ◼   ► of you know the getting your what is

00:08:25 ◼   ► your first pet's name and stuff like

00:08:26 ◼   ► that

00:08:27 ◼   ► the idea that there's all the security

00:08:28 ◼   ► but the weak link in the security is the

00:08:31 ◼   ► the thing that's there because we all

00:08:33 ◼   ► forget our passwords and that's like oh

00:08:34 ◼   ► I forgot my pass

00:08:35 ◼   ► word how do i recover it and the things

00:08:38 ◼   ► that used to recover it or so much less

00:08:40 ◼   ► secure than every other part of the

00:08:42 ◼   ► system is just the most glaring weak

00:08:44 ◼   ► link meanwhile as well ask you like what

00:08:45 ◼   ► is your first name is your last name

00:08:48 ◼   ► like it's so easy to find information

00:08:49 ◼   ► and just you know just tell me the truth

00:08:52 ◼   ► is it really you

00:08:53 ◼   ► right like you but your pics with your

00:08:55 ◼   ► pinky swear you can get your account oh

00:08:56 ◼   ► and I I recognize why that's the case

00:08:58 ◼   ► but it seems almost perverse it's like

00:09:00 ◼   ► it's easier you know it's easier than

00:09:03 ◼   ► remembering your password remembering

00:09:05 ◼   ► simple demographic information about

00:09:06 ◼   ► yourself and look at your wall a few

00:09:07 ◼   ► seconds of your credit card and that's

00:09:09 ◼   ► all you need to get into these counts if

00:09:10 ◼   ► you're willing to sit on that phone for

00:09:11 ◼   ► two seconds so right and i have to admit

00:09:15 ◼   ► and a certain selfish level one of the

00:09:17 ◼   ► things I was looking at over the weekend

00:09:19 ◼   ► as this excuse me is this situation

00:09:22 ◼   ► exploded was I remember thinking I I

00:09:26 ◼   ► kind of hope that conan did something

00:09:28 ◼   ► stupid

00:09:28 ◼   ► at some point along the way like you

00:09:31 ◼   ► know figures out that it you know like

00:09:32 ◼   ► he logged into his gmail on a you know

00:09:34 ◼   ► that a library public library computer

00:09:40 ◼   ► or something like that

00:09:41 ◼   ► um I like something that I would never

00:09:46 ◼   ► do so that I then i could think well

00:09:49 ◼   ► that couldn't happen to me

00:09:50 ◼   ► yeah whereas I kind of think I yeah it

00:09:58 ◼   ► might be I don't know if that's aI don't

00:10:01 ◼   ► know that anybody could take over my

00:10:02 ◼   ► twitter account the way that they did I

00:10:03 ◼   ► don't think i have a chain of emails

00:10:05 ◼   ► account that's connected to gmail like

00:10:09 ◼   ► that but I'm not a hundred percent sure

00:10:12 ◼   ► but on but he certainly somebody

00:10:15 ◼   ► certainly could have could ever even

00:10:17 ◼   ► still could take over my icloud account

00:10:21 ◼   ► the same way

00:10:22 ◼   ► yeah well not anymore because I'm right

00:10:26 ◼   ► because I and amazon has as well and I

00:10:29 ◼   ► think that's the one thing in the

00:10:30 ◼   ► stories i think Amazon decision to

00:10:33 ◼   ► display the stars you know in the last

00:10:35 ◼   ► four digits of the credit card i don't

00:10:36 ◼   ► think you should bring them for that

00:10:37 ◼   ► because that's been standard practice

00:10:39 ◼   ► for ever

00:10:40 ◼   ► yeah and everything the last four digits

00:10:42 ◼   ► the flaw was not that Amazon shows you

00:10:44 ◼   ► last word is the flaws in amazon's

00:10:45 ◼   ► customer service allowing you to reset

00:10:47 ◼   ► passwords and

00:10:48 ◼   ► secondarily an apple saying all you just

00:10:51 ◼   ► need to give me the last four digits

00:10:52 ◼   ► because I don't want you to read the all

00:10:53 ◼   ► the digits over the phone because that

00:10:55 ◼   ► would be insecure or whatever like

00:10:56 ◼   ► that's crazy where you just need the

00:10:58 ◼   ► last four digits as a to prove that

00:11:00 ◼   ► you're you it's not i don't blame amazon

00:11:03 ◼   ► at all for showing the credit cards the

00:11:04 ◼   ► way that I everything else yes this

00:11:06 ◼   ► plenty of blame to go around for that

00:11:07 ◼   ► one part i don't think people should get

00:11:09 ◼   ► hung up on right enterprise yeah and so

00:11:12 ◼   ► am an amazon i think has an easier fix

00:11:13 ◼   ► where I just don't think that they

00:11:15 ◼   ► should allow like you said they

00:11:17 ◼   ► shouldn't allow that stuff to be changed

00:11:19 ◼   ► over the phone like that and

00:11:22 ◼   ► particularly not

00:11:23 ◼   ► oh you know that it's so disconnected

00:11:25 ◼   ► where you give them a credit card and

00:11:27 ◼   ► they say okay went to them and you call

00:11:28 ◼   ► back and say hey i just got locked out

00:11:30 ◼   ► here is my credit card number that you

00:11:31 ◼   ► just gave them and there's no awareness

00:11:32 ◼   ► that you just gave them to that it

00:11:34 ◼   ► doesn't have to be a credit card that

00:11:35 ◼   ► you you'd like their verification

00:11:36 ◼   ► procedure for proving who you are

00:11:39 ◼   ► similarly bogus that's game so easily by

00:11:41 ◼   ► a call give a fake never hang up call

00:11:44 ◼   ► back right it certainly shouldn't be

00:11:45 ◼   ► possible to do it with a credit card

00:11:47 ◼   ► that like if you want to say this is my

00:11:49 ◼   ► new credit card and that they want to

00:11:51 ◼   ► enter it without actually running a

00:11:52 ◼   ► charge

00:11:53 ◼   ► that's ok but it should still somehow be

00:11:56 ◼   ► flagged as ok there's a new credit card

00:11:58 ◼   ► here but this is an unverified card that

00:12:00 ◼   ► hasn't even had a charge run against it

00:12:02 ◼   ► yet or just have an awareness that this

00:12:03 ◼   ► guy just called two minutes they'll

00:12:05 ◼   ► always ask today or whatever and you

00:12:07 ◼   ► know called a discarded like if not a

00:12:10 ◼   ► lot of thought has gone into those

00:12:12 ◼   ► recovery procedures and and I understand

00:12:14 ◼   ► like the recovery procedures have to be

00:12:15 ◼   ► easy because like look these guys

00:12:17 ◼   ► couldn't remember the password we gotta

00:12:19 ◼   ► make it so easy can you imagine the

00:12:20 ◼   ► turmoil if if they had policies that

00:12:23 ◼   ► were more like you forget your password

00:12:25 ◼   ► you call them up and I can't prove these

00:12:27 ◼   ► people that I am Who I am like they want

00:12:29 ◼   ► my passport had to show up in person and

00:12:31 ◼   ► give it blood sample i gotta know it's

00:12:33 ◼   ► ridiculous I can't get my accountant

00:12:35 ◼   ► lock they won't believe that I'm OMI

00:12:36 ◼   ► totally and like that is bad PR as well

00:12:39 ◼   ► so that they go to the other way and

00:12:40 ◼   ► they say okay well we'll just ask them

00:12:42 ◼   ► some basic stuff and ask them some

00:12:44 ◼   ► security question that anyone can google

00:12:46 ◼   ► the answer to and

00:12:47 ◼   ► no maybe something about their credit

00:12:49 ◼   ► card or just the expiration date or some

00:12:50 ◼   ► stuff like that so people come out of

00:12:52 ◼   ► that experience like oh I forgot my

00:12:53 ◼   ► password i called customer service it

00:12:55 ◼   ► was so nice it was so easy i got right

00:12:56 ◼   ► back in

00:12:57 ◼   ► that's 99.999% of time those policies

00:13:01 ◼   ► get put good feelings and customers and

00:13:03 ◼   ► how easy it was for them to recover

00:13:04 ◼   ► their account but this one percent is a

00:13:06 ◼   ► doozy

00:13:06 ◼   ► all right right i can sort of CNN and so

00:13:09 ◼   ► I think bottom line is that Apple really

00:13:11 ◼   ► had the the procedure in place that

00:13:13 ◼   ► deserves the most criticism we're being

00:13:16 ◼   ► able to get your iCloud account or Apple

00:13:18 ◼   ► idea i should say because it you know

00:13:20 ◼   ► any kind of Apple ID not just an iCloud

00:13:22 ◼   ► account but you can get your Apple ID

00:13:23 ◼   ► password reset just with your name home

00:13:28 ◼   ► address and last four digits of a credit

00:13:31 ◼   ► card really seems like glaringly

00:13:34 ◼   ► insecure like I I when I wrote about it

00:13:37 ◼   ► you'd never write your password on a

00:13:39 ◼   ► piece of paper and put it in your or at

00:13:41 ◼   ► least most people who couldn't do it and

00:13:44 ◼   ► keep it in your wallet but anybody who

00:13:46 ◼   ► picks up my wallet has my home address

00:13:47 ◼   ► and the last four digits of all my

00:13:49 ◼   ► credit cards

00:13:50 ◼   ► I mean and so I mean obviously you're in

00:13:52 ◼   ► a lot of trouble of some you know no

00:13:54 ◼   ► good neck as your wallet but you

00:13:57 ◼   ► shouldn't be thinking by conveyor lost

00:13:59 ◼   ► my wallet or I suspected somebody stole

00:14:00 ◼   ► it i would never think we're now they've

00:14:02 ◼   ► got my icloud account but in fact

00:14:04 ◼   ► according to the you know by their

00:14:06 ◼   ► previous procedures they would

00:14:08 ◼   ► yeah and it's the worst because that is

00:14:10 ◼   ► the power of the Apple ID has just

00:14:13 ◼   ► vastly increased over time like that

00:14:15 ◼   ► first it was like you can buy stuff from

00:14:17 ◼   ► itunes that bad enough right right then

00:14:19 ◼   ► you know the iCloud you can remote wipe

00:14:20 ◼   ► those machines and then extended to max

00:14:22 ◼   ► and so like finally I cloud became

00:14:24 ◼   ► powerful enough to control any piece of

00:14:26 ◼   ► hardware anyway if so configured and

00:14:28 ◼   ► this poor guy and just after that

00:14:30 ◼   ► happened gets hacked and they just they

00:14:32 ◼   ► reach out and they just wipe all his

00:14:34 ◼   ► hardware which is such a crazy thing you

00:14:35 ◼   ► would expect like all have to break into

00:14:37 ◼   ► each write whatever know they just get

00:14:38 ◼   ► that one little key to the kingdom and

00:14:40 ◼   ► over the network wherever you are

00:14:42 ◼   ► wherever these things are they can go to

00:14:44 ◼   ► Tommy I mean you're really wonder and

00:14:46 ◼   ► find once you're in find my iphone

00:14:48 ◼   ► your-your-your I don't know six klicks

00:14:50 ◼   ► away from wiping out all three of the

00:14:52 ◼   ► devices

00:14:53 ◼   ► yeah so I did I don't know what what

00:14:58 ◼   ► they should do I know everybody a lot of

00:15:01 ◼   ► people

00:15:01 ◼   ► of thing a lot of publicity and low in

00:15:03 ◼   ► response to this is about Google's

00:15:05 ◼   ► optional two-factor authentication you

00:15:09 ◼   ► know which I don't use even in and after

00:15:13 ◼   ► this because it just seems like a pain

00:15:15 ◼   ► in the ass

00:15:16 ◼   ► yeah wonder if that would help though it

00:15:18 ◼   ► because if you had your back up email

00:15:20 ◼   ► address as your mac.com thing with that

00:15:22 ◼   ► with the 10 things that i don't think

00:15:23 ◼   ► the two-factor lets you use email i

00:15:25 ◼   ► think it has to be like a phone or

00:15:26 ◼   ► something but like well two factors for

00:15:29 ◼   ► just getting in but like what if you if

00:15:31 ◼   ► you can't get into the two-factor thing

00:15:32 ◼   ► I thought you could go okay I've totally

00:15:33 ◼   ► forgotten you send something to my

00:15:36 ◼   ► backup gmail address like isn't that the

00:15:37 ◼   ► point of the backup is like that the

00:15:39 ◼   ► last reason but i think if you turn if

00:15:40 ◼   ► think if you sign up for the two-factor

00:15:42 ◼   ► authentication at Google then now it you

00:15:45 ◼   ► can't reset your account that way

00:15:47 ◼   ► yeah I think it'd be one thing I didn't

00:15:51 ◼   ► respond to the story was changed my

00:15:52 ◼   ► backup email address on google to do not

00:15:55 ◼   ► be one of my various Apple ID

00:15:58 ◼   ► mm I think differently production the

00:16:00 ◼   ► old people have is we have multiple

00:16:01 ◼   ► Apple IDs for historical reasons and you

00:16:04 ◼   ► know that that helps a little bit of

00:16:07 ◼   ► security through obscurity but yeah I

00:16:08 ◼   ► change it to not be my mind because so

00:16:11 ◼   ► then i like it because it your main

00:16:13 ◼   ► email addresses really like the keys to

00:16:15 ◼   ► the kingdom because that's always liked

00:16:16 ◼   ► associated with all of your accounts and

00:16:17 ◼   ► you can send the password resets there

00:16:19 ◼   ► so that really has to be super protected

00:16:20 ◼   ► many times I've considered putting two

00:16:22 ◼   ► factor auth on my gmail account but it

00:16:26 ◼   ► just seems too annoying to me I maybe I

00:16:28 ◼   ► should just try it for a while see if it

00:16:29 ◼   ► really is an expense especially knowing

00:16:31 ◼   ► to me because I don't have an iphone so

00:16:32 ◼   ► i got my crap phone and do i really want

00:16:34 ◼   ► to be making sure my crap phone is

00:16:37 ◼   ► charged and has a signal and i can look

00:16:38 ◼   ► at the little code you don't know maybe

00:16:41 ◼   ► i'll try it someday but but anyway like

00:16:43 ◼   ► you know I would have been more

00:16:44 ◼   ► motivated motivated you that there was

00:16:46 ◼   ► some sort of password hack or something

00:16:49 ◼   ► really it's just it's customer-service

00:16:50 ◼   ► policies that the bottom right and I can

00:16:54 ◼   ► also see how I you know it was a mistake

00:16:57 ◼   ► and not clearly somebody with a good

00:17:00 ◼   ► suspicious hardened security mindset

00:17:03 ◼   ► didn't really look at these procedures

00:17:05 ◼   ► that Apple had in place but from a

00:17:07 ◼   ► customer support standpoint you could

00:17:09 ◼   ► see I mean who knows who only knows who

00:17:11 ◼   ► can only guess how many people call

00:17:14 ◼   ► every honest people with the honest

00:17:16 ◼   ► problem that they don't remember their

00:17:17 ◼   ► iCloud password

00:17:19 ◼   ► I who needed just need it reset

00:17:22 ◼   ► I mean who knows i mean i wouldn't be

00:17:25 ◼   ► surprised if it's a huge number

00:17:26 ◼   ► yeah when they say social engineering

00:17:28 ◼   ► you think it's like someone was a smooth

00:17:30 ◼   ► talker kind of controlled somebody into

00:17:31 ◼   ► doing something they weren't supposed to

00:17:33 ◼   ► whatever but this was a case of they

00:17:34 ◼   ► were just going right down late night

00:17:35 ◼   ► they were totally within the guidelines

00:17:37 ◼   ► they didn't have to sweet-talk anybody

00:17:39 ◼   ► they didn't have to make a sob story and

00:17:40 ◼   ► I bet the sob stories work like I bet

00:17:42 ◼   ► you know if you're really convincing and

00:17:44 ◼   ► you're like oh it's an emergency or I

00:17:46 ◼   ► need this right now or you know I don't

00:17:47 ◼   ► remember my home address community in

00:17:49 ◼   ► our if you can be convincing I remember

00:17:51 ◼   ► home address but if you can be

00:17:53 ◼   ► convincing in that way that's what you

00:17:54 ◼   ► think of when your social engineering

00:17:55 ◼   ► this was a social engineering this was

00:17:56 ◼   ► just a normal customer services a call

00:17:59 ◼   ► that proceed exactly as expected right

00:18:02 ◼   ► that's that's the really scary part

00:18:03 ◼   ► right

00:18:04 ◼   ► yeah it wasn't like this was you know

00:18:06 ◼   ► the world's greatest con man really

00:18:09 ◼   ► pulling a clever clever scam over the

00:18:13 ◼   ► support rep yeah it was just right

00:18:15 ◼   ► it also seems to me and this isn't is so

00:18:17 ◼   ► clear from home and reporting on it

00:18:20 ◼   ► which has been copious you know he did a

00:18:22 ◼   ► really good thorough write-up of it for

00:18:24 ◼   ► wired the day or two later but I got the

00:18:28 ◼   ► impression from his back and forth with

00:18:31 ◼   ► the one of the hackers who got him that

00:18:36 ◼   ► this seems to get at least in certain

00:18:40 ◼   ► underground circle seem to be widely

00:18:42 ◼   ► known that you can take over it an apple

00:18:46 ◼   ► ID pretty easily if you can get those

00:18:48 ◼   ► things

00:18:49 ◼   ► yeah this is the type of thing that

00:18:50 ◼   ► would be widely known because it just

00:18:51 ◼   ► doesn't require technical skills is just

00:18:53 ◼   ► simply you know it a not very well-kept

00:18:57 ◼   ► secret among people who are in these

00:18:58 ◼   ► circles that here here are the easy ways

00:19:00 ◼   ► to exploit customer-service policies to

00:19:04 ◼   ► get access to people's accountant no

00:19:05 ◼   ► hacking required and so I you know one

00:19:07 ◼   ► of the things I've had in the week sense

00:19:10 ◼   ► is that live seen a lot of reports over

00:19:11 ◼   ► the last year to not a nine-ton but

00:19:14 ◼   ► enough that I've seen it so good at

00:19:16 ◼   ► something that's repeated that people

00:19:20 ◼   ► getting our itunes account hacked and

00:19:21 ◼   ► their swear up and down that they use

00:19:23 ◼   ► the unique password

00:19:25 ◼   ► I never put into it somebody else's

00:19:28 ◼   ► computer and it just doesn't make any

00:19:31 ◼   ► sense how their account got hacked and

00:19:37 ◼   ► it was the stories like oh this is a

00:19:38 ◼   ► well-known hack and apples addressing

00:19:40 ◼   ► and maybe it was all customer service

00:19:42 ◼   ► stuff I wonder though because it and my

00:19:44 ◼   ► first thought was I bet that maybe

00:19:45 ◼   ► that's the source of this is that

00:19:47 ◼   ► there's people who you know that who use

00:19:49 ◼   ► this this address in for digital credit

00:19:51 ◼   ► card combined maybe with the amazon

00:19:53 ◼   ► thing to do that but I would think that

00:19:58 ◼   ► apple would be able to and apples

00:20:00 ◼   ► publicly at least has brushed these off

00:20:01 ◼   ► by saying you know with you know that

00:20:04 ◼   ► the response when people write in and

00:20:06 ◼   ► say look my account was hacked was that

00:20:07 ◼   ► you know you should be more careful with

00:20:08 ◼   ► your password blog more or less kind of

00:20:10 ◼   ► blaming them i assuming that it was

00:20:14 ◼   ► somehow the users fault that for leaking

00:20:15 ◼   ► their password but i would think if

00:20:17 ◼   ► there was a pattern where these people

00:20:19 ◼   ► who called and said my account got

00:20:20 ◼   ► hacked and their account records show

00:20:23 ◼   ► that they had one of these phone calls

00:20:25 ◼   ► where they got the account changed

00:20:29 ◼   ► presumably recently right i mean i don't

00:20:32 ◼   ► think any of these hackers if their goal

00:20:34 ◼   ► is to do things like by a hundred

00:20:36 ◼   ► dollars worth of apps from your itunes

00:20:40 ◼   ► account it's not like they're changing

00:20:42 ◼   ► your password and then doing it two

00:20:46 ◼   ► months later because you're going to

00:20:48 ◼   ► notice right away because all of a

00:20:49 ◼   ► sudden you can't get in your itunes

00:20:50 ◼   ► account presumably they changed the

00:20:52 ◼   ► password and immediately use it you

00:20:55 ◼   ► would think that that pattern would be

00:20:56 ◼   ► detectable in your in your records that

00:20:58 ◼   ► hey these people all called up and had

00:21:01 ◼   ► their password changed right before they

00:21:02 ◼   ► can claim to be hacked

00:21:04 ◼   ► that's the same as the Amazon situation

00:21:06 ◼   ► that were you call up at a credit card

00:21:07 ◼   ► hang-up call right back that I can't get

00:21:08 ◼   ► him I can't like the there probably is a

00:21:11 ◼   ► lack of global awareness of what has

00:21:13 ◼   ► happened in the past to this customer

00:21:16 ◼   ► and you always let me pull up your

00:21:18 ◼   ► record here before you talk to you

00:21:19 ◼   ► expect them to see a record of all the

00:21:20 ◼   ► times you've called but maybe that's

00:21:22 ◼   ► maybe that's not happening

00:21:23 ◼   ► you know like obviously it's not

00:21:25 ◼   ► happening in the Amazon case we're not

00:21:26 ◼   ► pulling up everything and saying you

00:21:27 ◼   ► just called two minutes ago to add this

00:21:28 ◼   ► credit card now your number back to me

00:21:30 ◼   ► like anyone can see that that's weird

00:21:33 ◼   ► so you just you just assuming that they

00:21:36 ◼   ► would realize that

00:21:38 ◼   ► all these people who got hacked i can

00:21:39 ◼   ► look from their records and they all did

00:21:40 ◼   ► this past maybe they don't even see that

00:21:42 ◼   ► maybe it's not even the same people

00:21:43 ◼   ► maybe they don't have access to that

00:21:44 ◼   ► record who knows right

00:21:46 ◼   ► you can't tell i mean the other

00:21:47 ◼   ► alternative is an apple news trying to

00:21:49 ◼   ► cover it up but I don't see why they

00:21:51 ◼   ► would do that because it's so easy to

00:21:52 ◼   ► change that policy matters we see like

00:21:54 ◼   ► they changed the policy is not rocket

00:21:56 ◼   ► science not like they need to patch some

00:21:58 ◼   ► piece of software they just say okay new

00:21:59 ◼   ► policy everybody don't do that anymore

00:22:01 ◼   ► but I don't have a hard problem to solve

00:22:04 ◼   ► them because what should they do what

00:22:05 ◼   ► should they do to to let you reset your

00:22:08 ◼   ► password if you forget it

00:22:09 ◼   ► yeah i mean you can go with the full

00:22:11 ◼   ► credit card number if it's like a credit

00:22:13 ◼   ► card is actually been used a that's not

00:22:17 ◼   ► good though because i don't think it

00:22:18 ◼   ► should be information that you can get

00:22:19 ◼   ► by stealing somebody's wallet

00:22:21 ◼   ► well I mean it's got it the thing with

00:22:22 ◼   ► the two factors like something you have

00:22:24 ◼   ► versus something you know and all the

00:22:26 ◼   ► different things that you can use to

00:22:27 ◼   ► authenticate but when they have

00:22:29 ◼   ► forgotten their password and if you

00:22:31 ◼   ► don't have any other shared piece of

00:22:33 ◼   ► information with them all you can do to

00:22:35 ◼   ► prove that you're you is give them

00:22:38 ◼   ► information they already have about you

00:22:39 ◼   ► there's no new information you can give

00:22:41 ◼   ► them to prove that you're you right you

00:22:43 ◼   ► can only mean maybe what you could do

00:22:47 ◼   ► like in the in the fantasy world type

00:22:49 ◼   ► thing is when you create your account

00:22:50 ◼   ► have like photo be have to be associated

00:22:53 ◼   ► with the account and when you try to

00:22:55 ◼   ► recover your thing they can do a video

00:22:56 ◼   ► chat with you which we currently don't

00:22:58 ◼   ► quite have the technology to fake like

00:23:00 ◼   ► they ask you questions and you talk to

00:23:01 ◼   ► them and they can see that it's really

00:23:02 ◼   ► you and it then your twin brother can

00:23:04 ◼   ► break into your account i guess but

00:23:05 ◼   ► that's that's kind of more family

00:23:07 ◼   ► problem like stuff like that what else

00:23:10 ◼   ► can you really do what all they only

00:23:12 ◼   ► know about you is what they have on file

00:23:13 ◼   ► and if you compare it back every piece

00:23:15 ◼   ► of that information to them then one of

00:23:18 ◼   ► those the haps I think photos and videos

00:23:20 ◼   ► that the only next place it can go and

00:23:22 ◼   ► beyond that it has to be some sort of

00:23:23 ◼   ► two factors thing goodnight i know i've

00:23:26 ◼   ► gotten credit cards before where like

00:23:29 ◼   ► women a new credit card comes you have

00:23:31 ◼   ► to call to activate it and that only

00:23:33 ◼   ► works if you call from the phone number

00:23:35 ◼   ► that they have on file for you

00:23:37 ◼   ► um I don't know how much your phone can

00:23:41 ◼   ► be you know and I know that's how partly

00:23:43 ◼   ► partly how Google's two-factor

00:23:45 ◼   ► authentication works is assuming that

00:23:46 ◼   ► you have a phone number that can be

00:23:48 ◼   ► trusted

00:23:48 ◼   ► yeah that's that's something you have

00:23:50 ◼   ► what do you have I have

00:23:51 ◼   ► my cell phone I have my home phone my i

00:23:53 ◼   ► have possession of the home from which

00:23:55 ◼   ► this number i mean it's not be able to

00:23:56 ◼   ► have landlines as much anymore but it's

00:23:57 ◼   ► it's it's just something you have thing

00:23:59 ◼   ► they're ok I had a similar situation of

00:24:01 ◼   ► you saw these tweets from like the other

00:24:02 ◼   ► week when i was going to pick up my

00:24:04 ◼   ► monitor at the apple store

00:24:05 ◼   ► yeah i did send it and I forgot my

00:24:07 ◼   ► wallet and they said I'm sorry we can't

00:24:10 ◼   ► give you your computer without your

00:24:11 ◼   ► wallet and and what I thought of was

00:24:14 ◼   ► look you've got my information on file

00:24:17 ◼   ► why didn't you just call the telephone

00:24:19 ◼   ► number associated with with you know

00:24:21 ◼   ► this repair and my wife will answer the

00:24:23 ◼   ► phone and Julie tell you that I just

00:24:25 ◼   ► left to go to the apple store and she'll

00:24:26 ◼   ► talk to me on the phone and confirm that

00:24:28 ◼   ► it's to you that it like right

00:24:29 ◼   ► what's more secure than that like anyone

00:24:32 ◼   ► can get a wallet and a photo ID and who

00:24:35 ◼   ► knows what the picture they look at the

00:24:36 ◼   ► picture it looks particularly like me or

00:24:38 ◼   ► anything like that anyway yeah that's

00:24:39 ◼   ► much easier to fake then you have this

00:24:41 ◼   ► telephone number on file that i gave you

00:24:43 ◼   ► when i drop that thing off why wouldn't

00:24:44 ◼   ► you know if someone had my wife at

00:24:46 ◼   ► gunpoint at home so they can get a new

00:24:47 ◼   ► 27 inch monitor but they wouldn't accept

00:24:50 ◼   ► that and normally except the other

00:24:52 ◼   ► things that suggested it was like a

00:24:54 ◼   ► google for my name or other people said

00:24:56 ◼   ► how about you just sign in with your

00:24:57 ◼   ► Apple ID like there's an apple ID

00:24:59 ◼   ► associated with this repair if I can

00:25:01 ◼   ► sign in with that permits me no photo

00:25:03 ◼   ► idea only so i have to go back home and

00:25:07 ◼   ► get a photo ID and then I know what I

00:25:09 ◼   ► know the kicker think that they have a

00:25:11 ◼   ► guy doesn't even ask me for help because

00:25:13 ◼   ► I rises silent the whole time I compete

00:25:15 ◼   ► I tell mother here it goes back gets the

00:25:17 ◼   ► thing give it to me put it back in the

00:25:19 ◼   ► box all packed up he says all right so

00:25:21 ◼   ► you're all set like I just wanted to

00:25:22 ◼   ► make sure that he wasn't wait until the

00:25:24 ◼   ► very end

00:25:24 ◼   ► okay oh yeah let me see that photo and

00:25:26 ◼   ► nothing compares like you know i just

00:25:29 ◼   ► went home to get my photo i do and then

00:25:31 ◼   ► now you didn't even ask words I

00:25:32 ◼   ► recognize you from when you dropped it

00:25:33 ◼   ► off i didn't i didn't recognize him he

00:25:36 ◼   ► wasn't the guy who helped me and he

00:25:37 ◼   ► wasn't I didn't see him when I first

00:25:38 ◼   ► came here to kill me

00:25:40 ◼   ► where was he half an hour ago yeah but

00:25:44 ◼   ► there's a similar situation where you're

00:25:45 ◼   ► going to have somebody especially like

00:25:48 ◼   ► this warranty repair so it's free you're

00:25:49 ◼   ► going to hand somebody potentially

00:25:51 ◼   ► expensive piece of hardware just because

00:25:54 ◼   ► they told you like their name and that

00:25:56 ◼   ► there's something waiting for them and

00:25:57 ◼   ► they want some way to show that you're

00:25:59 ◼   ► you and that it's even weirder because

00:26:02 ◼   ► when you drop it off i don't think they

00:26:04 ◼   ► take the fall

00:26:04 ◼   ► no idea i don't remember maybe someone

00:26:06 ◼   ► will send you angry emails and so they

00:26:07 ◼   ► do but like oh that but that's what they

00:26:10 ◼   ► go with like photo identification so it

00:26:12 ◼   ► seems it seems like for online has to be

00:26:15 ◼   ► something similar way they're relying on

00:26:16 ◼   ► your physical appearance and things that

00:26:19 ◼   ► are difficult to fake not so much a

00:26:20 ◼   ► photo but a video of you talking or

00:26:22 ◼   ► something you have which is your cell

00:26:23 ◼   ► phone or your home phone or you know

00:26:25 ◼   ► something like that they can show that

00:26:27 ◼   ► yeah I have this information and you may

00:26:29 ◼   ► know the information that we have on

00:26:30 ◼   ► file here but let's prove it's really

00:26:32 ◼   ► you i'm going to call the phone number

00:26:33 ◼   ► on here and you better answer it to show

00:26:35 ◼   ► that it's really you

00:26:37 ◼   ► I only other thing i can think of that

00:26:41 ◼   ► could verify stuff like that would be

00:26:43 ◼   ► like your your home address i get that

00:26:46 ◼   ► seems pretty secure but then you don't

00:26:48 ◼   ► get fast turnaround like maybe they

00:26:50 ◼   ► could you send you if he's a male right

00:26:51 ◼   ► they'll send you a piece of mail and the

00:26:53 ◼   ► mail would contain like that you know

00:26:56 ◼   ► some kind of keyword or something like

00:26:58 ◼   ► unique and you have to call apple and

00:27:00 ◼   ► read the keyword and then you know you

00:27:02 ◼   ► can get your account back but you know I

00:27:05 ◼   ► I'd customer service wise the three or

00:27:07 ◼   ► four-day turnaround on that is you know

00:27:09 ◼   ► this intolerant flip out that people

00:27:11 ◼   ► would flip out on it would be like they

00:27:13 ◼   ► would be a story in The New York Times

00:27:14 ◼   ► in presenting two days of that policy

00:27:17 ◼   ► going to affect its going to be

00:27:20 ◼   ► electronic it's got to be immediate but

00:27:21 ◼   ► it also has to be secure right now and i

00:27:24 ◼   ► guess i would be negligent if I didn't

00:27:26 ◼   ► mention that the recent accident at

00:27:28 ◼   ► apple recently acquired of the URL handy

00:27:31 ◼   ► they just bought like a fingerprint ID

00:27:32 ◼   ► company

00:27:33 ◼   ► yeah and that's that's not good tweet

00:27:35 ◼   ► about that I forget who was saying that

00:27:37 ◼   ► if this this hack happened two days

00:27:40 ◼   ► earlier before the acquisition the

00:27:42 ◼   ► acquisition would have been read would

00:27:43 ◼   ► have been reported a desperate move by

00:27:45 ◼   ► Apple to show up its security resources

00:27:47 ◼   ► i didn't think whatever that is true

00:27:49 ◼   ► that's totally true apple that story

00:27:52 ◼   ► dodged the bullet just by and by mere

00:27:54 ◼   ► days because of this hack right because

00:27:56 ◼   ► everybody wants to see cause and effect

00:27:58 ◼   ► right yeah yeah that would have been

00:28:01 ◼   ► huge it would have been absolutely use

00:28:02 ◼   ► and then it would have been that you

00:28:04 ◼   ► know it got a regular amount of what

00:28:06 ◼   ► this means Apple must be adding

00:28:07 ◼   ► fingerprint ID two phones and and

00:28:09 ◼   ► trackpad soon or whatever but it would

00:28:11 ◼   ► have been definitely would have been

00:28:12 ◼   ► like iphone 5 is going to have a

00:28:14 ◼   ► fingerprint ID scan all because of that

00:28:16 ◼   ► Matt Holliday because you know what

00:28:17 ◼   ► happened

00:28:17 ◼   ► he got hacked and then 24 hours later

00:28:19 ◼   ► they acquired a company for several

00:28:21 ◼   ► million dollars because that's how those

00:28:22 ◼   ► deals work right somebody wakes up

00:28:24 ◼   ► inside

00:28:25 ◼   ► what matter was hacked by the

00:28:26 ◼   ► fingerprint company in the next day it's

00:28:28 ◼   ► blocks done i will say this though in

00:28:30 ◼   ► terms of coincidences and cause and

00:28:31 ◼   ► effect and thinking maybe you know this

00:28:34 ◼   ► might be related somehow tonight just a

00:28:37 ◼   ► few hours ago I got a direct message

00:28:38 ◼   ► from at verified then it's the Twitter

00:28:44 ◼   ► verified accounts account and the direct

00:28:47 ◼   ► message said that Twitter wanted to

00:28:48 ◼   ► verify my Twitter account and click this

00:28:50 ◼   ► URL sure rub it in good and i click it

00:28:55 ◼   ► and you have to answer like three

00:28:57 ◼   ► questions and and then also now I've got

00:29:00 ◼   ► the got the little blue stamp up there

00:29:01 ◼   ► I'm gonna be my Twitter account and you

00:29:03 ◼   ► you get recognized apple stores and your

00:29:05 ◼   ► catch whatever kind you know when it's

00:29:06 ◼   ► all right out

00:29:07 ◼   ► I'll handle and i know i can recognize

00:29:08 ◼   ► that Apple sources good i but I don't

00:29:11 ◼   ► ask for because this is one time it

00:29:12 ◼   ► would make ya one the one time that it

00:29:15 ◼   ► would save me

00:29:16 ◼   ► you know you should have called me i

00:29:17 ◼   ► would about you for still be the worst

00:29:20 ◼   ► the worst called true burial tell you

00:29:23 ◼   ► it's me I'm so what so what did Twitter

00:29:25 ◼   ► ask you like well you know what and the

00:29:27 ◼   ► funny thing is it's not really they're

00:29:29 ◼   ► not really assuming that that I add that

00:29:31 ◼   ► they say here's what they say when you

00:29:32 ◼   ► this is how you get verified to say

00:29:34 ◼   ► you're gonna answer three questions and

00:29:35 ◼   ► I'm thinking I'm so suspicious and

00:29:37 ◼   ► paranoid and I was already thing's a

00:29:39 ◼   ► scam

00:29:39 ◼   ► number one I was thinking when the

00:29:40 ◼   ► direct message came in that it was a

00:29:42 ◼   ► scam and I was hesitant to click the

00:29:44 ◼   ► link and you don't follow it verified so

00:29:46 ◼   ► how did the MU I had a very good

00:29:50 ◼   ► question and in fact I don't know and

00:29:53 ◼   ► their twitter they do whatever the hell

00:29:55 ◼   ► you want exactly but it was the weirdest

00:29:57 ◼   ► DMI ever got because it showed up on my

00:30:00 ◼   ► mac in the Tweetbot alpha and I went

00:30:03 ◼   ► just I don't even know why because i was

00:30:05 ◼   ► so suspicious about this whole thing I

00:30:06 ◼   ► went to my iphone and open the official

00:30:08 ◼   ► twitter client and look for it there and

00:30:11 ◼   ► it wasn't there and I right waited a

00:30:13 ◼   ► couple minutes and reloaded and it

00:30:15 ◼   ► didn't come and I started thinking like

00:30:18 ◼   ► wow that's weird what the hell's going

00:30:19 ◼   ► on that never happens i'm usually

00:30:20 ◼   ► sometimes there's 30 seconds of latency

00:30:22 ◼   ► between one client or another with dms

00:30:24 ◼   ► they're not real time but they're not to

00:30:28 ◼   ► 34 minutes apart

00:30:30 ◼   ► just because you're on a different

00:30:31 ◼   ► client then i logged into twitter.com

00:30:33 ◼   ► the website which i think is I think

00:30:36 ◼   ► most people agree is probably the

00:30:37 ◼   ► canonical interface to Twitter ya want

00:30:39 ◼   ► to go there when I have a doubt right

00:30:41 ◼   ► and so I went there and the DM wasn't

00:30:43 ◼   ► there either and now I'm thinking now

00:30:44 ◼   ► this is weird this is really now I'm

00:30:46 ◼   ► like this is crazy but then within like

00:30:49 ◼   ► another two three four minutes it did

00:30:51 ◼   ► show up everywhere

00:30:52 ◼   ► yeah I've seen that with the ends like I

00:30:54 ◼   ► I'm frequently very frequently pretty

00:30:56 ◼   ► much all the time get the email i saw

00:30:58 ◼   ► the emails for dams get the email

00:31:00 ◼   ► response that I've got a DM before I see

00:31:02 ◼   ► it in most of my clients but yea bottom

00:31:05 ◼   ► line is they David's there-there

00:31:07 ◼   ► verified accounts account has a

00:31:09 ◼   ► superpower that they contend dm's to

00:31:12 ◼   ► whoever they want the three questions

00:31:14 ◼   ► that are not about verifying you it's

00:31:17 ◼   ► and it makes sense in hindsight it has

00:31:18 ◼   ► nothing to do with that because they're

00:31:20 ◼   ► not suspicious that i'm not that my

00:31:24 ◼   ► accounts been hacked right

00:31:26 ◼   ► they already been you know I mean all

00:31:28 ◼   ► they asked me and it's so silly is they

00:31:31 ◼   ► ask you a series of three questions

00:31:33 ◼   ► which tweet is better and it's so

00:31:35 ◼   ► obviously geared toward the assumption

00:31:39 ◼   ► that you are some sort of pop culture

00:31:41 ◼   ► celebrity know that you're like a

00:31:44 ◼   ► pop-culture celebrity and it's like

00:31:46 ◼   ► which tweet is better and one on the one

00:31:49 ◼   ► side there's a fake fake Twitter account

00:31:51 ◼   ► saying watching the Oscars like with a

00:31:54 ◼   ► hashtag like washing the hashtag Oscar's

00:31:57 ◼   ► on ABC loving the fashions on the red

00:32:01 ◼   ► carpet and any other one is watch the

00:32:04 ◼   ► Oscars last night and I've and then you

00:32:07 ◼   ► hope you pick obviously the right answer

00:32:10 ◼   ► is the one where you're doing it live

00:32:12 ◼   ► and it then you click that and it says

00:32:13 ◼   ► correct what you know tweeting things

00:32:16 ◼   ► while they're happening is much more

00:32:18 ◼   ► engaging with your fans than treating

00:32:20 ◼   ► things after the fact also the question

00:32:22 ◼   ► is if you have gotten these

00:32:23 ◼   ► quote-unquote or wrong

00:32:25 ◼   ► what would have happened 91 tonight I

00:32:27 ◼   ► had a verified again I thought about

00:32:29 ◼   ► trying that with the third one and then

00:32:31 ◼   ► you know in the third one is the same it

00:32:32 ◼   ► was like is a better note that the

00:32:33 ◼   ► differences is a better to tweet with

00:32:35 ◼   ► pictures or not with pictures it's like

00:32:37 ◼   ► you know hanging out with something

00:32:39 ◼   ► something and then there's a pic got

00:32:41 ◼   ► twitter that something URL and the other

00:32:43 ◼   ► one is just hanging out with someone

00:32:45 ◼   ► someone I thought about obviously the

00:32:47 ◼   ► one of the pictures supposed to be the

00:32:48 ◼   ► one I thought about click any other 1i

00:32:49 ◼   ► think that they just tell you the answer

00:32:51 ◼   ► i'm guessing i don't think it's a test

00:32:53 ◼   ► and they're not gonna let you in i think

00:32:55 ◼   ► you click the wrong one and they say

00:32:56 ◼   ► wrong it's actually better to tweet with

00:32:58 ◼   ► pictures and now you're allowed to be

00:33:00 ◼   ► verified

00:33:00 ◼   ► that's weird like everyone first of all

00:33:02 ◼   ► the verification process is weird

00:33:03 ◼   ► because you like you would imagine

00:33:05 ◼   ► they're going like sorted by a number of

00:33:09 ◼   ► followers descending and they just got

00:33:10 ◼   ► down to like the hundred case or

00:33:11 ◼   ► whatever you're at right now because I

00:33:13 ◼   ► started with like the 20 million people

00:33:15 ◼   ► like Ashton Kutcher or whatever and

00:33:16 ◼   ► they're working their way down to the

00:33:17 ◼   ► poor timor guy or whatever his job is to

00:33:20 ◼   ► verify counts like bar now really

00:33:22 ◼   ► scraping the bottom of the barrel

00:33:23 ◼   ► because they're they're done with the

00:33:24 ◼   ► actual like real celebrities with

00:33:25 ◼   ► millions and millions of followers and

00:33:27 ◼   ► it down to like the mac nerd guys and

00:33:29 ◼   ► then like so how do they know that this

00:33:31 ◼   ► is the John Gruber candidate just

00:33:33 ◼   ► because their twitter guys they're also

00:33:34 ◼   ► happen to be computer nerds they know

00:33:35 ◼   ► who you are

00:33:36 ◼   ► yeah I guess so I I can only guess there

00:33:39 ◼   ► wasn't really any sort of actual like if

00:33:43 ◼   ► at Gruber and run by someone for years

00:33:46 ◼   ► impersonating me there was no no no i

00:33:50 ◼   ► mean i don't know i don't know how they

00:33:52 ◼   ► would do it i Meanwell verified as being

00:33:54 ◼   ► cool like that was running my ears maybe

00:33:55 ◼   ► a non-person you maybe just some other

00:33:57 ◼   ► guy named John Gruber and I like you

00:33:59 ◼   ► know all that all you're very like what

00:34:00 ◼   ► do you even verifying because it's weird

00:34:03 ◼   ► to me like if there is a famous

00:34:04 ◼   ► celebrity internationally known

00:34:06 ◼   ► celebrity like Tom Cruise you want to

00:34:09 ◼   ► verify that the account that says Tom

00:34:11 ◼   ► Cruise is really the account of tom

00:34:13 ◼   ► cruise but when you get down to people

00:34:15 ◼   ► who like everyone in the world doesn't

00:34:17 ◼   ► know who they are what are you even

00:34:18 ◼   ► verifying yeah i'm not quite sure what i

00:34:21 ◼   ► think is you're about to be monetized

00:34:23 ◼   ► that's what I think for the bills gonna

00:34:25 ◼   ► be like hey John Gruber verified

00:34:27 ◼   ► celebrity would you like to keep your

00:34:29 ◼   ► verified account Twitter will consider

00:34:30 ◼   ► sending I mean after that made that

00:34:32 ◼   ► maybe welcome you know finally have a

00:34:34 ◼   ► business model pay you just stop trying

00:34:37 ◼   ► to show ads I

00:34:38 ◼   ► I don't know the other thing i don't

00:34:41 ◼   ► know and i haven't had a chance because

00:34:42 ◼   ► it just happened a few hours ago but I'm

00:34:44 ◼   ► wondering now if it's gonna be hot if

00:34:46 ◼   ► it's if it's harder for me to reset my

00:34:47 ◼   ► password

00:34:49 ◼   ► I don't know I got all I can think is

00:34:52 ◼   ► that this has something to do with the

00:34:54 ◼   ► Honan thing and that they like went and

00:34:56 ◼   ► found people who are similar to mat

00:34:57 ◼   ► Honan who don't have verified accounts

00:34:59 ◼   ► and they're verifying yeah but like what

00:35:01 ◼   ► how does that help

00:35:02 ◼   ► yeah I guess I don't know it was like

00:35:03 ◼   ► all that would do is like reinforced

00:35:05 ◼   ► when the hackers take over your account

00:35:07 ◼   ► like no let's totally John Gruber saying

00:35:08 ◼   ► those terrible things its use a verified

00:35:10 ◼   ► account

00:35:11 ◼   ► well presumably being verified as

00:35:12 ◼   ► extremely rare i would guess you know

00:35:14 ◼   ► sliver the tiny little sliver of a

00:35:17 ◼   ► thousandth of a percent of Twitter

00:35:19 ◼   ► accounts because you can't choose

00:35:22 ◼   ► there's no way you know you can't go in

00:35:23 ◼   ► and ask to be verified there is an

00:35:25 ◼   ► exciting things like that they starting

00:35:27 ◼   ► with the celebrities and just like they

00:35:29 ◼   ► just start by followers time you're at

00:35:31 ◼   ► your stone that did very tiny tip the

00:35:33 ◼   ► edge of that long tail out there right

00:35:35 ◼   ► but it's so rare that i'm wondering that

00:35:37 ◼   ► if you call up with a account password

00:35:39 ◼   ► thing and and whoever you get over helps

00:35:42 ◼   ► people with with those type of problems

00:35:44 ◼   ► with twitter that if it's shows up is

00:35:46 ◼   ► verified it goes into like a white

00:35:49 ◼   ► gloves department

00:35:50 ◼   ► yeah or or they ask you the same

00:35:52 ◼   ► question about which tweet is better he

00:35:54 ◼   ► said shut up and accept my fast fresh I

00:35:56 ◼   ► don't know yet do you like the dick bar

00:35:59 ◼   ► yes or no that's one of the questions I

00:36:02 ◼   ► asking what's your favorite hashtag yeah

00:36:05 ◼   ► it goes into the speaking of make money

00:36:07 ◼   ► has been to the apt dotnet thing like

00:36:09 ◼   ► the same room same reason we're all

00:36:10 ◼   ► desperate for something to happen there

00:36:12 ◼   ► is because we don't see Twitter being

00:36:14 ◼   ► able or willing to make money in the way

00:36:16 ◼   ► we think they should and like I made a

00:36:18 ◼   ► joke about to verify account costing you

00:36:20 ◼   ► money but like isn't that isn't that how

00:36:22 ◼   ► you would prefer to pay for Twitter yeah

00:36:24 ◼   ► versus having to see ads yeah or

00:36:27 ◼   ► something for all third-party clients

00:36:29 ◼   ► dying and we got to make that choice

00:36:30 ◼   ► Yusei you pay in a second

00:36:32 ◼   ► I was on the fence with ideas i signed

00:36:35 ◼   ► up for apt on that soon after it was

00:36:36 ◼   ► announced I became a backer but I was on

00:36:39 ◼   ► the fence about promoting and daring

00:36:41 ◼   ► fireball but i just did right before we

00:36:42 ◼   ► started with recording tonight I

00:36:44 ◼   ► actually linked up and encourage people

00:36:47 ◼   ► to sign up because they saw their spam

00:36:49 ◼   ► email got you

00:36:51 ◼   ► and that actually i did that actually

00:36:53 ◼   ► had nothing to do with that I've

00:36:54 ◼   ► actually been watching it at the writer

00:36:58 ◼   ► forget that long ago they launched it

00:36:59 ◼   ► but I've been watching it and thinking

00:37:01 ◼   ► if it gets close maybe i'll see if i can

00:37:04 ◼   ► help him out a little but I my guy and I

00:37:06 ◼   ► know I've helped Kickstarter projects

00:37:08 ◼   ► out before I don't think that I can even

00:37:10 ◼   ► come close to help manage that the day

00:37:12 ◼   ► they're like 300,000 dollars short of

00:37:14 ◼   ► this is the email setup everybody who

00:37:16 ◼   ► currently back to service got three of

00:37:18 ◼   ► their friends to sign out it will make

00:37:19 ◼   ► it and that's that's a tall order with a

00:37:22 ◼   ► few days to go

00:37:23 ◼   ► I and I don't know what they're gonna do

00:37:27 ◼   ► it's a weird thing and I know that

00:37:29 ◼   ► you've talked about it on hypercritical

00:37:31 ◼   ► you did talk about apt now I know you

00:37:33 ◼   ► type that counted and wood along with

00:37:35 ◼   ► penny arcade and stuff

00:37:37 ◼   ► yep and it is weird it's a weird

00:37:39 ◼   ► situation

00:37:40 ◼   ► hey it's weird because it's not even

00:37:42 ◼   ► really Kickstarter they like built their

00:37:44 ◼   ► own Kickstarter because they had to they

00:37:46 ◼   ► weren't they didn't fit in the

00:37:47 ◼   ► Kickstarter rules right

00:37:49 ◼   ► is that why they did that in videos and

00:37:51 ◼   ► the fact that basically we would have

00:37:52 ◼   ► been a good start but we can't because

00:37:53 ◼   ► it says that you can use Kickstarter to

00:37:55 ◼   ► start a business and that's what we're

00:37:56 ◼   ► doing so right that's that uh and you

00:38:01 ◼   ► know it doesn't necessarily mean that if

00:38:03 ◼   ► they fall short they're just going to

00:38:04 ◼   ► pack it in and throw it out and not do

00:38:06 ◼   ► anything I don't know what I don't know

00:38:08 ◼   ► what their plan B is that was that I

00:38:10 ◼   ► convinced friend of mine to sign up for

00:38:12 ◼   ► it today in fact doing my part to get

00:38:14 ◼   ► help them get reach their funding goal

00:38:16 ◼   ► and what I thought the deal was and I

00:38:19 ◼   ► didn't bother to check i guess i don't

00:38:20 ◼   ► care enough is that if they don't reach

00:38:22 ◼   ► their goal nobody gets charged like I

00:38:25 ◼   ► pledged fifty dollars or whatever

00:38:26 ◼   ► Brett's that just means only if we get

00:38:28 ◼   ► our goal then we charge everyone's

00:38:29 ◼   ► credit cards or whatever if we don't get

00:38:31 ◼   ► a girl known lose anyway that's the

00:38:32 ◼   ► secret Kickstarter is that it eliminates

00:38:34 ◼   ► the risk that you're dumping your money

00:38:36 ◼   ► down a hole it's like you're excited by

00:38:39 ◼   ► the fact that they're going to reach

00:38:39 ◼   ► their goal but if it don't ya you do not

00:38:41 ◼   ► add any money that was one of the

00:38:44 ◼   ► interesting things about the penny

00:38:45 ◼   ► arcade thing is that there there big

00:38:46 ◼   ► goal was like so far down but to be

00:38:49 ◼   ► fully funded it was like 250 k and they

00:38:50 ◼   ► reach that like in the first day or two

00:38:52 ◼   ► right that's not what everybody wanted

00:38:53 ◼   ► to like as soon as they reach that first

00:38:55 ◼   ► one that everyone's money is gone and

00:38:57 ◼   ► then people are really motivated to you

00:38:59 ◼   ► know i would rather have while this

00:39:01 ◼   ► audacious goal lets everyone put their

00:39:02 ◼   ► money towards it and if we get it will

00:39:04 ◼   ► be so excited

00:39:04 ◼   ► that we don't care we almost got charge

00:39:06 ◼   ► versus you know everyone give me your

00:39:08 ◼   ► money and i would like five hundred

00:39:09 ◼   ► thousand dollars but if i reach thousand

00:39:11 ◼   ► dollars you're all getting charged that

00:39:13 ◼   ► scares people away

00:39:14 ◼   ► I should probably revise my my little

00:39:16 ◼   ► write-up and emphasize that part that

00:39:18 ◼   ► yeah it kicking in 50 bucks is is

00:39:21 ◼   ► definitely not in it you know 50 bucks

00:39:23 ◼   ► is not a cup of coffee that's that's a

00:39:24 ◼   ► significant you know right

00:39:26 ◼   ► no i mean i don't know maybe there's

00:39:28 ◼   ► somebody out there i guess there's some

00:39:29 ◼   ► people who throw 50 bucks around like

00:39:31 ◼   ► loose change but you know 50 bucks to me

00:39:33 ◼   ► is something you really think about what

00:39:37 ◼   ► your it is sort of no risk in terms of

00:39:39 ◼   ► you're only going to get charged if

00:39:40 ◼   ► you're going to get a app.net service

00:39:44 ◼   ► that will work

00:39:45 ◼   ► you're not going to throw your fifty

00:39:47 ◼   ► dollars in and who they fell short your

00:39:49 ◼   ► fifty dollars is gone and you don't even

00:39:51 ◼   ► get the abdominal well you before you

00:39:53 ◼   ► write that up you should actually look

00:39:54 ◼   ► it up because i didn't bother looking it

00:39:55 ◼   ► up either as you go to their website and

00:39:57 ◼   ► look at the little fine print and it

00:39:58 ◼   ► says what actually happens here and the

00:39:59 ◼   ► thing is even if they're fully funded

00:40:01 ◼   ► and they get 500k that still doesn't

00:40:03 ◼   ► guarantee that their service will ever

00:40:05 ◼   ► come to a hill of beans you know like

00:40:06 ◼   ► that they could make the service and

00:40:07 ◼   ► then no one shows up and it just kind of

00:40:09 ◼   ► fizzled away to the book but the fact

00:40:11 ◼   ► that we're all willing to put money

00:40:12 ◼   ► behind this thing is made it we want not

00:40:15 ◼   ► so much that we want something like this

00:40:17 ◼   ► but it's like we wish Twitter had a

00:40:19 ◼   ► monetization strategy that made us feel

00:40:21 ◼   ► more comfortable we all hate this scary

00:40:23 ◼   ► stuff with the third-party clients going

00:40:24 ◼   ► away we don't like ads we didn't like

00:40:27 ◼   ► the dick bar like this so much about

00:40:29 ◼   ► Twitter that just bugging us the that

00:40:31 ◼   ► the way that in all of their first

00:40:33 ◼   ► clarity party interfaces the web their

00:40:35 ◼   ► apps and everything where they're

00:40:36 ◼   ► they're putting all this emphasis on the

00:40:38 ◼   ► the trends in and also those that card

00:40:42 ◼   ► interface where like you have expanded

00:40:44 ◼   ► tweets with all sorts of other day I

00:40:46 ◼   ► right we're all of a sudden one tweet

00:40:47 ◼   ► can take up like the whole length of

00:40:49 ◼   ► your screen you know it's not a little

00:40:50 ◼   ► miniature webpage right that's not what

00:40:53 ◼   ► we want out of that all right the only

00:40:54 ◼   ► time I want that is when merlin mann

00:40:55 ◼   ► tweets1 with a bunch of returns for his

00:40:58 ◼   ► like once once a month i'm going to put

00:41:00 ◼   ► 40 carriage returns in here before the

00:41:02 ◼   ► punchline tweet

00:41:04 ◼   ► yeah he liked the vertical space is it

00:41:08 ◼   ► small man they may become well and the

00:41:09 ◼   ► big difference there is actually a big

00:41:11 ◼   ► difference in there no joking aside

00:41:12 ◼   ► which is that if if that gag from

00:41:14 ◼   ► earlier

00:41:14 ◼   ► it really annoys you enough you just

00:41:16 ◼   ► want to follow your one click away from

00:41:18 ◼   ► monday on follow button is right there

00:41:20 ◼   ► whereas when when promoted tweets and

00:41:23 ◼   ► embedded what do they call them cards

00:41:25 ◼   ► whatever they call think it's called

00:41:26 ◼   ► cards right if they annoy you with tough

00:41:29 ◼   ► luck

00:41:29 ◼   ► you know that's coming right out of that

00:41:31 ◼   ► Twitter HQ I think the cars are also for

00:41:34 ◼   ► like so you have someone who you follow

00:41:35 ◼   ► and they post they say check out this

00:41:38 ◼   ► funny youtube video instead of that

00:41:40 ◼   ► being hot like a two-line text email

00:41:42 ◼   ► with a link now little embed the YouTube

00:41:44 ◼   ► video right there in your timeline if

00:41:47 ◼   ► you're using one of their clients and

00:41:49 ◼   ► you're like I don't want like I like

00:41:50 ◼   ► that guy like his links i like the

00:41:52 ◼   ► videos he provides but I don't want that

00:41:53 ◼   ► video embedded into start downloading

00:41:55 ◼   ► and taking up seven inches of vertical

00:41:57 ◼   ► screen space on my device like that's

00:41:59 ◼   ► not how I want to consume store because

00:42:01 ◼   ► that just start like what if they start

00:42:03 ◼   ► previewing all web pages that way that

00:42:05 ◼   ► people are riding less than a hundred

00:42:07 ◼   ► forty characters and what they're

00:42:08 ◼   ► producing is you know on an iPad an

00:42:10 ◼   ► entire screen full of crap it's like I

00:42:11 ◼   ► will tap the link if i want to see it

00:42:13 ◼   ► don't inline it like that type of

00:42:15 ◼   ► interface where individual websites pay

00:42:18 ◼   ► to have tweets that reference their urls

00:42:20 ◼   ► expand into this big monster thing like

00:42:22 ◼   ► say IMDb pay them at any time ever

00:42:23 ◼   ► mentioned Tom Crean crews put four

00:42:26 ◼   ► inches of information about Tom Cruise

00:42:27 ◼   ► and a little head shot and links to

00:42:28 ◼   ► other stuff underneath it and like you

00:42:30 ◼   ► don't unfollow somebody because they

00:42:32 ◼   ► mentioned Tom Cruise but now all the

00:42:33 ◼   ► tweets are annoying how you because they

00:42:35 ◼   ► because of this IMDb connection that

00:42:37 ◼   ► that's the stories monetization strategy

00:42:38 ◼   ► don't charge the customers charge these

00:42:40 ◼   ► websites to crap everyone else's

00:42:42 ◼   ► timeline but their stuff right and I

00:42:46 ◼   ► like you know there's certain ways that

00:42:48 ◼   ► tweet tweet obviously even in the

00:42:50 ◼   ► third-party clients that we like they've

00:42:52 ◼   ► they've grown past just pure text like

00:42:57 ◼   ► most and most of the clients i know of

00:42:59 ◼   ► like if you embed a picture from known

00:43:00 ◼   ► services the picture can be right there

00:43:03 ◼   ► in the tweet but they don't show you the

00:43:04 ◼   ► whole thing it's always like a thumbnail

00:43:06 ◼   ► right at least the ones I use like tweet

00:43:08 ◼   ► button and i just used to it but really

00:43:11 ◼   ► bad and that's up to the client software

00:43:13 ◼   ► writer its object and soothing it's up

00:43:15 ◼   ► to the client software and they can add

00:43:17 ◼   ► features to Like Tweet pod and i think

00:43:19 ◼   ► but i think like you know I think

00:43:21 ◼   ► Tweety's to do this and Twitter's client

00:43:23 ◼   ► so just show a little thumbnail of the

00:43:24 ◼   ► image

00:43:25 ◼   ► if you want to see it you tap it and

00:43:26 ◼   ► then you see a big but that way if

00:43:28 ◼   ► you're just scrolling through your

00:43:29 ◼   ► tweets even a tweet with a picture link

00:43:32 ◼   ► in it isn't going to take up more room

00:43:33 ◼   ► than a regular tweet and that that's the

00:43:36 ◼   ► tortoise big thing about making a

00:43:37 ◼   ► consistent experience what that means is

00:43:39 ◼   ► like in the current scenario if you

00:43:41 ◼   ► don't like how Tweetbot put the

00:43:42 ◼   ► thumbnail images because you it makes

00:43:44 ◼   ► your timeline too big and annoy you try

00:43:46 ◼   ► different client that doesn't do that

00:43:48 ◼   ► right you have choice whereas consistent

00:43:50 ◼   ► client experience means I know if the

00:43:52 ◼   ► clients even if they don't get to choose

00:43:54 ◼   ► how that appears we choose how it

00:43:55 ◼   ► appears in all clients must obey like on

00:43:57 ◼   ► this Twitter cards pages but Dave

00:43:59 ◼   ► twitter.com / docs flashcards it shows

00:44:02 ◼   ► it someone looking to New York Times

00:44:03 ◼   ► story and the thing is that the tweet

00:44:06 ◼   ► the show's that's a whole lot of people

00:44:07 ◼   ► dot and then in New York Times short URL

00:44:10 ◼   ► right but then underneath it has the

00:44:12 ◼   ► headline the byline a picture a link to

00:44:15 ◼   ► the new york times and the first

00:44:17 ◼   ► paragraph of the story and the date the

00:44:19 ◼   ► thing with you know like why if i want

00:44:22 ◼   ► to go read that story i'll go read it

00:44:23 ◼   ► but if every single client did that I

00:44:26 ◼   ► mean I would not like that because most

00:44:28 ◼   ► a lot of the tweets that I say you have

00:44:30 ◼   ► links in them and I don't want to see

00:44:31 ◼   ► the links in line like that and I

00:44:34 ◼   ► wouldn't I would be very upset if I had

00:44:35 ◼   ► no choice right well it would ruin it

00:44:38 ◼   ► just would spoil what I think Twitter is

00:44:40 ◼   ► a Mountie I mean it really would start

00:44:42 ◼   ► to lose the whole appeal to me you know

00:44:47 ◼   ► and I know that that that Michael sippy

00:44:48 ◼   ► blog post from a month back or so that

00:44:51 ◼   ► sort of gave everybody the chills about

00:44:54 ◼   ► the direction they're heading with this

00:44:55 ◼   ► where he reiterated that the way they

00:44:58 ◼   ► see their developer relationships going

00:45:00 ◼   ► forward isn't with developers writing

00:45:02 ◼   ► client apps that show you twitter its

00:45:05 ◼   ► developers creating a determine what

00:45:08 ◼   ► they want to call it but it's this is

00:45:09 ◼   ► embedded iframes more or less that you

00:45:11 ◼   ► put inside tweets

00:45:13 ◼   ► yeah it's like it's like a it's like an

00:45:15 ◼   ► RSS reader only you do all you always

00:45:19 ◼   ► have to use the preview pane and that

00:45:20 ◼   ► like you don't have just a few of the

00:45:22 ◼   ► articles right like you know every

00:45:24 ◼   ► single thing you see expands out to some

00:45:25 ◼   ► big blobby like it's basically forcing

00:45:28 ◼   ► you to go to a web page every time you

00:45:30 ◼   ► read a tweet that's and it's a way for

00:45:32 ◼   ► the people on the receiving end of those

00:45:34 ◼   ► links to shove their crap in your face

00:45:35 ◼   ► like oh websites come and develop to our

00:45:38 ◼   ► interface

00:45:39 ◼   ► in anytime anyone references URL

00:45:40 ◼   ► anywhere you can just shove a big giant

00:45:42 ◼   ► square of stuff in their face but

00:45:43 ◼   ► whatever you want there and will charge

00:45:44 ◼   ► you money for that it's just terrible

00:45:47 ◼   ► so for anybody out there and you know

00:45:49 ◼   ► who's on the fence in his agrees with

00:45:51 ◼   ► with me and and you John of that you

00:45:54 ◼   ► just don't like the direction

00:45:55 ◼   ► twitter is going with their relationship

00:45:58 ◼   ► with developers and the way that they're

00:46:00 ◼   ► there

00:46:01 ◼   ► the monetization strategy that they're

00:46:03 ◼   ► clearly taking aa the only thing that

00:46:06 ◼   ► you can do about it the one and only

00:46:07 ◼   ► thing that you can do as a user that

00:46:09 ◼   ► would have any you know sure you're just

00:46:12 ◼   ► one user against hundred million who are

00:46:14 ◼   ► using it but the only thing you can do

00:46:15 ◼   ► is throw your support to some kind of

00:46:17 ◼   ► competitor that's the only thing you can

00:46:20 ◼   ► do that would have any kind of effect

00:46:21 ◼   ► you know complaining about it isn't

00:46:22 ◼   ► gonna do anything across when I talk

00:46:25 ◼   ► about app.net I had all these

00:46:27 ◼   ► pessimistic thanks to say about it

00:46:28 ◼   ► because I don't you gonna get that

00:46:29 ◼   ► feeling that the reason twitter is doing

00:46:31 ◼   ► this is that the only people who care or

00:46:33 ◼   ► nerds like us and maybe there's not

00:46:35 ◼   ► enough of us to make a difference right

00:46:37 ◼   ► now i do have that fear absolutely

00:46:39 ◼   ► and even if there was enough of us like

00:46:41 ◼   ► we said in the beginning and you know

00:46:42 ◼   ► 2006-2007 like Twitter was just nerds

00:46:45 ◼   ► like us and there was a definitely

00:46:47 ◼   ► different vibe back then but now if even

00:46:51 ◼   ► if we got critical mass take over

00:46:52 ◼   ► app.net got funded all the nerds went

00:46:54 ◼   ► over there and they've had some sort of

00:46:56 ◼   ► gateway and clients could read both of

00:46:57 ◼   ► them in more like you can imagine a

00:46:59 ◼   ► scenario where nerds are on app.net but

00:47:01 ◼   ► like wouldn't you miss the the

00:47:04 ◼   ► pop-culture celebrity people that you

00:47:06 ◼   ► happen to follow on twitter not that I

00:47:08 ◼   ► follow a lot of them but it would be

00:47:10 ◼   ► weird like oh we're over there but

00:47:11 ◼   ► everything else is happening in that

00:47:12 ◼   ► other place right where is just become

00:47:14 ◼   ► so pervasive like on television news

00:47:18 ◼   ► even which drives me nuts for likely

00:47:19 ◼   ► reads tweets and stuff like that but

00:47:20 ◼   ► it's like that is the network for

00:47:22 ◼   ► everybody and we'd be on this other

00:47:24 ◼   ► little thing that just never going to

00:47:25 ◼   ► get critical mass and even though it

00:47:27 ◼   ► would feel cool and we have our own

00:47:28 ◼   ► little thing would feel kind of like

00:47:30 ◼   ► left out you know I'm that's kind of

00:47:33 ◼   ► that I'm of two minds about this this

00:47:36 ◼   ► the bias maybe it's the same type of

00:47:38 ◼   ► thing where so we had myspace and

00:47:41 ◼   ► friendster and also things and every

00:47:43 ◼   ► time one of those look like it was

00:47:44 ◼   ► dominant something else and came along

00:47:46 ◼   ► then wipe it out now we have facebook

00:47:47 ◼   ► and my big fear with facebook is unlike

00:47:50 ◼   ► Friendster and MySpace facebook is just

00:47:52 ◼   ► got too darn big

00:47:53 ◼   ► and now it's like it's like

00:47:54 ◼   ► too-big-to-fail like you something can't

00:47:57 ◼   ► come on come along a wipeout facebook

00:47:58 ◼   ► the same way facebook and myspace

00:48:00 ◼   ► because it's reached some it's gone over

00:48:03 ◼   ► some line is just one big and I'm i fear

00:48:05 ◼   ► our twitter is the same thing is that

00:48:07 ◼   ► even if something better comes along

00:48:09 ◼   ► it's too late twitter twitter is just

00:48:11 ◼   ► too darn big and it's going to take a

00:48:12 ◼   ► really long time to kind of like Windows

00:48:14 ◼   ► Windows got so big that didn't matter

00:48:15 ◼   ► how much better something was you

00:48:16 ◼   ► basically had to wait for it to become a

00:48:18 ◼   ► relevant and you know the future to be

00:48:21 ◼   ► immobile and Microsoft to not be there

00:48:22 ◼   ► and then thats that's what makes windows

00:48:24 ◼   ► go away it's not because Mac operating

00:48:26 ◼   ► system was better and windows goes away

00:48:27 ◼   ► it goes away because who cares about

00:48:29 ◼   ► desktop operating systems anymore we

00:48:30 ◼   ► only care about mobile and the people

00:48:32 ◼   ► who wanted mobile will not Microsoft so

00:48:34 ◼   ► is that what has to happen here for

00:48:35 ◼   ► twitter and facebook to you know not

00:48:38 ◼   ► nothing can defeat them until they

00:48:39 ◼   ► become irrelevant

00:48:40 ◼   ► that's scary maybe defeat is the wrong

00:48:43 ◼   ► term my optimistic take on app.net would

00:48:47 ◼   ► be something along the lines of and the

00:48:49 ◼   ► comparison between commercial TV and hbl

00:48:53 ◼   ► and the idea is that I think most people

00:48:56 ◼   ► i think a lot of the people who are

00:48:57 ◼   ► don't really like the the way twitter is

00:48:59 ◼   ► going also have a lot of complaints

00:49:01 ◼   ► about commercial TV commercials

00:49:03 ◼   ► themselves the number of commercials

00:49:05 ◼   ► that are shown and the just the way that

00:49:09 ◼   ► that the nature of commercial TV sort of

00:49:13 ◼   ► has a never-ending decade after decade

00:49:16 ◼   ► drive towards lowest-common-denominator

00:49:18 ◼   ► content right i mean i think a lot of

00:49:22 ◼   ► the shows that are on TV now the reality

00:49:25 ◼   ► type shows are not really even any

00:49:28 ◼   ► further

00:49:30 ◼   ► they're not there they're even worse

00:49:31 ◼   ► maybe then like the dystopian future

00:49:34 ◼   ► oh my god the cop bad TV is from like

00:49:36 ◼   ► Robocop write a great democracy al

00:49:39 ◼   ► eyeballs right you know idiocracy is

00:49:42 ◼   ► still a little bit out ahead but while

00:49:44 ◼   ► the Americas Funniest Home Videos was

00:49:45 ◼   ► basically out my balls ok and that was

00:49:48 ◼   ► like in the nineties and right but as

00:49:49 ◼   ► the years go on that the idiocracy

00:49:51 ◼   ► future video cratic future doesn't seem

00:49:55 ◼   ► as far-fetched it seems to the less and

00:49:57 ◼   ► less far-fetched

00:49:58 ◼   ► as time goes on well that's not the case

00:50:02 ◼   ► where I think it's not so much that the

00:50:04 ◼   ► entertainment is appealing to to base

00:50:07 ◼   ► instincts because that that's been

00:50:09 ◼   ► around forever and I think this the

00:50:12 ◼   ► counter examples like a lot you know

00:50:13 ◼   ► lost was on ABC and no one's going to

00:50:15 ◼   ► say that was you know trashy reality

00:50:17 ◼   ► show that's the opposite behind budget

00:50:19 ◼   ► drill you know very a single artistic

00:50:22 ◼   ► vision high production value stuff like

00:50:24 ◼   ► that but that's the thing about people

00:50:25 ◼   ► hate about TV is that doesn't wrench

00:50:27 ◼   ► business model that hasn't kept up with

00:50:29 ◼   ► technology and it's difficult to

00:50:31 ◼   ► dislodge that so what we're looking for

00:50:33 ◼   ► HBO is like one example is that late on

00:50:36 ◼   ► HBO shows they can they can make shows

00:50:37 ◼   ► for adults because they're not burdened

00:50:39 ◼   ► by these legacy things when the Airways

00:50:41 ◼   ► belong to the people and you have to

00:50:42 ◼   ► license them through the government but

00:50:44 ◼   ► then you have to have decency real like

00:50:45 ◼   ► all that stuff that that burdens the

00:50:47 ◼   ► network's doesn't burden HBO and so

00:50:51 ◼   ► that's why you get content that's more

00:50:53 ◼   ► appealing there because what can you

00:50:54 ◼   ► really do it within the confines of the

00:50:56 ◼   ► decency rules network television you're

00:50:57 ◼   ► limited in terms of programming for

00:51:00 ◼   ► adults because not all adults want just

00:51:01 ◼   ► everything that's Pollyanna all the time

00:51:03 ◼   ► I don't end and it's the same situation

00:51:07 ◼   ► with twitter i don't know if there is

00:51:10 ◼   ► what is the equivalent of being able to

00:51:13 ◼   ► show nudity and curse and having people

00:51:16 ◼   ► pay you directly lots of money

00:51:19 ◼   ► what is the equivalent of a nap dotnet I

00:51:22 ◼   ► think the equivalent is is more about

00:51:24 ◼   ► the overall experience that you're not

00:51:26 ◼   ► being badgered by promotional garbage

00:51:28 ◼   ► and and that that there aren't it idiot

00:51:35 ◼   ► i think i think maybe the aquarium is a

00:51:37 ◼   ► hard analogy because it's a social

00:51:39 ◼   ► network versus just TV broadcast but

00:51:42 ◼   ► that you know there aren't going to be

00:51:44 ◼   ► as many idiots on app.net is or on

00:51:47 ◼   ► twitter because I you know at least for

00:51:49 ◼   ► now it seems like the plan is that

00:51:50 ◼   ► everybody is on their has to pay at

00:51:51 ◼   ► least something to get in

00:51:53 ◼   ► yeah so you're not going to have there's

00:51:55 ◼   ► not going to be idiots there that you

00:51:56 ◼   ► can assume that there's a higher level

00:51:58 ◼   ► of discourse I mean one thing I mean

00:51:59 ◼   ► it's super super early days I mean in

00:52:01 ◼   ► fact I mean they just let me I got in

00:52:03 ◼   ► today I'm

00:52:04 ◼   ► on the Alpha i don't know how many users

00:52:08 ◼   ► are in there already but i posted one

00:52:10 ◼   ► was going to call it a tweet but I guess

00:52:12 ◼   ► you have to call it a post to you know

00:52:14 ◼   ► to app.net and the post idea was like

00:52:17 ◼   ► 8200 something so there's only been you

00:52:19 ◼   ► know just with all the tests that day

00:52:21 ◼   ► but you know whatever else i don't know

00:52:23 ◼   ► how many of those are from actual users

00:52:24 ◼   ► and how many or automated things that

00:52:26 ◼   ► they've tested while building the thing

00:52:28 ◼   ► out but there's only been eight thousand

00:52:29 ◼   ► post so far

00:52:30 ◼   ► whereas twitter is up at like you know

00:52:31 ◼   ► 12 quadrillion you're already a thousand

00:52:34 ◼   ► i know it should check out that I got

00:52:36 ◼   ► the email to mike i'll check it out but

00:52:38 ◼   ► that's not my user idea to my two is the

00:52:39 ◼   ► tweet ID or post idea i've known my user

00:52:42 ◼   ► ideas but I well I got the the equipment

00:52:48 ◼   ► is that no ads rides on HBO and they're

00:52:50 ◼   ► being you know

00:52:51 ◼   ► no ads on the Twitter replacement thing

00:52:54 ◼   ► and there's no ads and no fear of ads

00:52:57 ◼   ► because everyone and it's not just a dad

00:52:59 ◼   ► either because clearly the stuff like

00:53:01 ◼   ► having embedded New York Times stories

00:53:04 ◼   ► show up as a card instead of just a URL

00:53:07 ◼   ► not really an ad but it's is there's

00:53:09 ◼   ► there's there's a financial thing in

00:53:10 ◼   ► there where they're getting money to

00:53:12 ◼   ► sharing money with the new york times to

00:53:14 ◼   ► have new york times story is treated

00:53:15 ◼   ► specially and there's not going to be

00:53:17 ◼   ► anything that you know don't know it so

00:53:20 ◼   ► the advertising is the wrong word for

00:53:21 ◼   ► that but it's favoring the interest of

00:53:25 ◼   ► somebody other than me for financial

00:53:27 ◼   ► reasons me a little visit their big

00:53:29 ◼   ► thrust is like whatever makes our

00:53:31 ◼   ► service more desirable to customers

00:53:34 ◼   ► that's what we'll spend all our time on

00:53:35 ◼   ► adding features making it you know make

00:53:38 ◼   ► it like what

00:53:38 ◼   ► whatever users of the service one well

00:53:41 ◼   ► that's what we communicate with words

00:53:42 ◼   ► you get the feeling that people on

00:53:43 ◼   ► Twitter are not worried about what the

00:53:46 ◼   ► users of their system want they're more

00:53:47 ◼   ► worried about how do we get money from

00:53:49 ◼   ► somebody to keep us in business before

00:53:51 ◼   ► the VC comes out alright so my thought

00:53:53 ◼   ► too is like HBO might know most people

00:53:56 ◼   ► don't have HBO up everybody watches

00:53:58 ◼   ► commercial TV but you know only some

00:54:00 ◼   ► people have HBO i guess i'm guessing at

00:54:03 ◼   ► this point I probably wouldn't abandon

00:54:04 ◼   ► Twitter frap dotnet but maybe i would

00:54:07 ◼   ► use app.net is the thing i'm logged into

00:54:08 ◼   ► all day and only check twitter once in a

00:54:10 ◼   ► lot but you know in the same way that

00:54:12 ◼   ► when you get HBO it's not like your

00:54:13 ◼   ► commercial TV turns off yeah the thing i

00:54:16 ◼   ► worry and wonder about what

00:54:18 ◼   ► there is like but they have all these

00:54:19 ◼   ► that they've been hinting at the you

00:54:21 ◼   ► know I wouldn't write third-party

00:54:22 ◼   ► clients that are you if you're going to

00:54:24 ◼   ► write clients don't write like a

00:54:25 ◼   ► general-purpose one and you know like

00:54:27 ◼   ► they've been making scary vague you know

00:54:30 ◼   ► moves in that direction for a long time

00:54:32 ◼   ► but they never actually pull the trigger

00:54:34 ◼   ► and I kept thinking like how are you

00:54:36 ◼   ► going to stop somebody you gonna I guess

00:54:38 ◼   ► you can use OAuth on the API to reject

00:54:40 ◼   ► clients but it's like yeah that's like

00:54:42 ◼   ► an arms race in terms of like illicit

00:54:44 ◼   ► Twitter clients and what I'm thinking of

00:54:46 ◼   ► is like wouldn't if at that took off and

00:54:49 ◼   ► was popular wouldn't there be you know

00:54:51 ◼   ► hacked clients that merge Twitter and

00:54:54 ◼   ► app.net into a single thing and you're

00:54:56 ◼   ► some sort of proxy gateway or like I

00:54:59 ◼   ► guess they had its within their power to

00:55:01 ◼   ► reject requested our North indicated

00:55:03 ◼   ► with some digitally signed but that's

00:55:04 ◼   ► just that arms race of client-side offer

00:55:08 ◼   ► versus serve aside you don't want the

00:55:11 ◼   ► nerds on the other side of that to be

00:55:12 ◼   ► your enemy i'm not saying it can't be

00:55:14 ◼   ► done but it's that's a lot of time and

00:55:16 ◼   ► energy fighting against that and really

00:55:17 ◼   ► did they really care like what was that

00:55:19 ◼   ► you came up with the have the stats for

00:55:21 ◼   ► how what percentage of twitter users use

00:55:24 ◼   ► third-party clients i late i asked about

00:55:26 ◼   ► it and somebody who reads during

00:55:27 ◼   ► fireball linked together fig figure it

00:55:29 ◼   ► out do I i think if i think is his

00:55:32 ◼   ► methodology was pretty pretty good eat

00:55:34 ◼   ► he like slurp like a million random

00:55:36 ◼   ► tweets from the adder so still some way

00:55:39 ◼   ► that you can get that you can get like

00:55:40 ◼   ► just show me like tweets to show me on

00:55:44 ◼   ► random tweets that people are tweeting

00:55:45 ◼   ► from around the world and grab like a

00:55:47 ◼   ► million of them and analysed where they

00:55:49 ◼   ► were from and it's you know that the the

00:55:51 ◼   ► biggest hole in his methodology is it

00:55:53 ◼   ► because it there's no other way to get

00:55:55 ◼   ► the real information what people are

00:55:57 ◼   ► using those see Twitter what you can do

00:55:59 ◼   ► is you can see what people are using to

00:56:01 ◼   ► post to twitter which is different

00:56:03 ◼   ► because i would guess that there's an

00:56:05 ◼   ► awful lot of people out there one now

00:56:07 ◼   ► that it's twitter has hit like you said

00:56:08 ◼   ► like CNN shows hashtags 24 hours a day

00:56:12 ◼   ► I think there's an awful lot of people

00:56:13 ◼   ► out there with accounts that have like

00:56:15 ◼   ► two followers and they've only tweeted

00:56:17 ◼   ► like three times themselves but they

00:56:19 ◼   ► actually do you use twitter they like

00:56:21 ◼   ► use it and just consumed just pure

00:56:23 ◼   ► consumption just like something you know

00:56:25 ◼   ► that they look at but don't post to

00:56:28 ◼   ► but i would guess that would only skew

00:56:29 ◼   ► it more towards the official twitter

00:56:31 ◼   ► clients in the Twitter website

00:56:33 ◼   ► yeah and you remember what the number

00:56:34 ◼   ► was that was Attorney 23% person I

00:56:37 ◼   ► remember thinking it was way higher than

00:56:39 ◼   ► I thought it would be i think it was

00:56:40 ◼   ► disclosed like 20 or something well and

00:56:42 ◼   ► I would've thought would be like three

00:56:43 ◼   ► percent and I think that but i think

00:56:45 ◼   ► that's skewed by the fact that people

00:56:47 ◼   ► who create content and have a lot of

00:56:49 ◼   ► followers are more likely to to need

00:56:52 ◼   ► something like that for example just

00:56:54 ◼   ► isn't you know and I i have never seen

00:56:55 ◼   ► the appeal of this software but i know

00:56:57 ◼   ► that a lot of like celebrity people use

00:56:59 ◼   ► tweetdeck that's the way for them to be

00:57:02 ◼   ► able to like TweetDeck lets you have

00:57:04 ◼   ► some chance of managing an awareness of

00:57:09 ◼   ► people who are talking to or about you

00:57:11 ◼   ► when there is so many people like the

00:57:12 ◼   ► same reason you don't use unified

00:57:14 ◼   ► timeline because you're at replies

00:57:15 ◼   ► anytime you say anything we just swap

00:57:17 ◼   ► your ability to read three posts from

00:57:19 ◼   ► the people you you replied 2 and so like

00:57:21 ◼   ► so i can you imagine if you had 20

00:57:23 ◼   ► million followers or something they were

00:57:24 ◼   ► just it just becomes untenable so I

00:57:26 ◼   ► think Tweetbot is away like I don't even

00:57:29 ◼   ► want to look at their replies and just

00:57:30 ◼   ► doing like a bunch of cancer churches

00:57:32 ◼   ► you know and then they can kind of get a

00:57:34 ◼   ► big overall picture but yeah for someone

00:57:36 ◼   ► who just wants to read twitter to a

00:57:37 ◼   ► tweet that is not that's a tool for the

00:57:39 ◼   ► twitter power user whatever you want to

00:57:41 ◼   ► call them but there's also you know they

00:57:43 ◼   ► are pulling the plug on some people I

00:57:44 ◼   ► know that they just pulled the plug on

00:57:45 ◼   ► Instagram connecting to Twitter mild I

00:57:49 ◼   ► mean they got lost my facebook right and

00:57:51 ◼   ► you know famously you know people have

00:57:52 ◼   ► observed that Jack Dorsey you know

00:57:54 ◼   ► Twitter inventor and CEO or whatever his

00:57:57 ◼   ► title is because he's not the CEO but

00:58:00 ◼   ► you know it's like chief designer at

00:58:02 ◼   ► Twitter had been a active instagram user

00:58:07 ◼   ► and hasn't posted an Instagram since

00:58:09 ◼   ► their Facebook acquisition but

00:58:15 ◼   ► ultimately though you know you could say

00:58:17 ◼   ► well it makes sense that they pull the

00:58:18 ◼   ► plug on you know somebody owned by

00:58:20 ◼   ► Facebook or whatever but really it's

00:58:21 ◼   ► like you said it's just an API you know

00:58:23 ◼   ► if your API is there you know I mean

00:58:26 ◼   ► they're going to play favorites like

00:58:26 ◼   ► that I wouldn't be surprised if they

00:58:28 ◼   ► started doing it to to desktop clients

00:58:30 ◼   ► then i will end up with i would imagine

00:58:33 ◼   ► if they do lock it down as similar to

00:58:36 ◼   ► what Apple uses for push notifications

00:58:37 ◼   ► and iCloud and everything where there's

00:58:39 ◼   ► like cryptographic connection between

00:58:41 ◼   ► like you

00:58:42 ◼   ► are allowed to send push notifications

00:58:42 ◼   ► and the only reason you're allowed us

00:58:45 ◼   ► because it's you know configured through

00:58:47 ◼   ► your developer ID and connected to your

00:58:50 ◼   ► Apple ID and we have the information

00:58:51 ◼   ► about you and your violated we pull the

00:58:53 ◼   ► plug in you and the barrier to getting

00:58:55 ◼   ► like up and running again is making a

00:58:57 ◼   ► new fake apple ID from a different IP

00:58:59 ◼   ► address and pay the $19 again and get

00:59:01 ◼   ► everything configured and deploy a new

00:59:03 ◼   ► version of an application from a

00:59:05 ◼   ► different apple ID and make your

00:59:06 ◼   ► customers download on the store and then

00:59:07 ◼   ► we lock you down again and so like you

00:59:09 ◼   ► could go cat-and-mouse like that or you

00:59:11 ◼   ► could just try to crack the encryption

00:59:12 ◼   ► somehow or whatever but I don't know who

00:59:15 ◼   ► is more motivated to stop that like I

00:59:17 ◼   ► haven't seen any cases of apples push

00:59:21 ◼   ► notification thing being hacked or gain

00:59:23 ◼   ► because i don't think that means that

00:59:24 ◼   ► there's any financial gain for that it's

00:59:26 ◼   ► probably not a financial gain for

00:59:28 ◼   ► breaking through the prohibition on

00:59:31 ◼   ► third-party Twitter clients but there's

00:59:33 ◼   ► definitely a geek

00:59:34 ◼   ► you know like there's no financial game

00:59:36 ◼   ► but i really want to use a third-party

00:59:37 ◼   ► clients so maybe the hackers are just

00:59:39 ◼   ► motivated to find their way to crack it

00:59:41 ◼   ► just for the hell of it now and I don't

00:59:44 ◼   ► know but anyway I'm a little depressed

00:59:47 ◼   ► because i was kind of a certain trap

00:59:49 ◼   ► dotnet hopefully hopefully maybe you

00:59:51 ◼   ► know maybe maybe they'll turn around the

00:59:53 ◼   ► last five days

00:59:54 ◼   ► I don't know what I think about when you

00:59:56 ◼   ► think about when I was a mom wanted

00:59:59 ◼   ► something like a point

00:59:59 ◼   ► something like a point

01:00:00 ◼   ► but after that is remember the whole big

01:00:01 ◼   ► thing with a rowboat not rebel tweeting

01:00:02 ◼   ► but the wanting for you to tweet and

01:00:04 ◼   ► stuff like that yeah they were very

01:00:06 ◼   ► quick to reply to him about my point

01:00:07 ◼   ► when I talk about the show it's not so

01:00:09 ◼   ► much that they did this because they've

01:00:10 ◼   ► responded quickly and they were cool

01:00:12 ◼   ► about it and everything that just that

01:00:14 ◼   ► it makes gives you that doubt that like

01:00:15 ◼   ► oh why did they think this would be okay

01:00:18 ◼   ► like it makes you question their

01:00:19 ◼   ► judgment doesn't make you question like

01:00:20 ◼   ► their their motivation and like that

01:00:22 ◼   ► they're clearly like they're they're

01:00:23 ◼   ► motivated for the right reasons and they

01:00:25 ◼   ► really want our goals are aligned with

01:00:27 ◼   ► their goals really want to do the right

01:00:28 ◼   ► thing it's like man how how did

01:00:31 ◼   ► something like that slip by not that

01:00:33 ◼   ► it's that important but it's like my

01:00:34 ◼   ► being fooled here and do we really not

01:00:36 ◼   ► share the same values you know right and

01:00:38 ◼   ► what you're talking about is when you

01:00:39 ◼   ► first signed up and I don't even know

01:00:41 ◼   ► what they do anymore but when i signed

01:00:42 ◼   ► up like what they are 2n you you part of

01:00:46 ◼   ► the appeal of signing up with that you

01:00:47 ◼   ► get to reserve your existing twitter

01:00:50 ◼   ► username but the way that you did it was

01:00:54 ◼   ► they needed you to tweet and I could be

01:00:57 ◼   ► generated tweet that said something

01:00:58 ◼   ► corny like I've supporting app.net you

01:01:01 ◼   ► can too

01:01:02 ◼   ► here's the URL and there's a hashtag in

01:01:04 ◼   ► there and you tweeted that and you're

01:01:07 ◼   ► tweeting that was what they're bought

01:01:09 ◼   ► would look for to see that tweet and

01:01:12 ◼   ► then say ok this guy did it and there's

01:01:14 ◼   ► like a little like a little unique token

01:01:16 ◼   ► in there too somewhere and then they

01:01:17 ◼   ► would say okay so now at Gruber is is

01:01:20 ◼   ► verified as a backer of app.net so this

01:01:23 ◼   ► guy has the at Gruber name reserved for

01:01:26 ◼   ► our thing too but that's cheesy I mean

01:01:29 ◼   ► you know I don't I I never tweet

01:01:31 ◼   ► hashtags and I don't hide

01:01:33 ◼   ► I don't like anything like that that

01:01:35 ◼   ► that asks you to tweet on their behalf

01:01:37 ◼   ► and that like that's because I remember

01:01:39 ◼   ► there was a one-time one of those the

01:01:41 ◼   ► mac software bundles had a thing like

01:01:43 ◼   ► that were going like you got like a free

01:01:46 ◼   ► app if you gave him your twitter name it

01:01:48 ◼   ► like instead of getting 10 apps for

01:01:49 ◼   ► fifty bucks you got 11 apps for fifty

01:01:51 ◼   ► bucks is even better deal and just give

01:01:53 ◼   ► us your twitter name and people are

01:01:54 ◼   ► doing and almost on your twitter stream

01:01:56 ◼   ► was just full of like 37 people who all

01:01:59 ◼   ► were promoting the such-and-such mac

01:02:01 ◼   ► bundle and it's like man has so cheesy

01:02:04 ◼   ► and just wrong

01:02:06 ◼   ► exactly i had that thought to it really

01:02:08 ◼   ► was like a a bad taste in my mouth right

01:02:11 ◼   ► friends as like my first experience with

01:02:13 ◼   ► that

01:02:13 ◼   ► and again it doesn't it didn't make me

01:02:16 ◼   ► question that the point of the project

01:02:17 ◼   ► or anything they say about it just made

01:02:19 ◼   ► me think about like you you want to feel

01:02:22 ◼   ► when you're supporting something like

01:02:24 ◼   ► this that did they share your values and

01:02:26 ◼   ► tastes I guess right and and part of it

01:02:29 ◼   ► is just misunderstanding and experience

01:02:31 ◼   ► with you didn't have to tweet i think

01:02:32 ◼   ► even from the very beginning you didn't

01:02:33 ◼   ► have to eat that corny signing

01:02:35 ◼   ► promotional thing you just needed to

01:02:36 ◼   ► have the few bits of information in

01:02:37 ◼   ► there but like they didn't make that

01:02:39 ◼   ► clear and now they're to the credit they

01:02:40 ◼   ► didn't do this thing that so many sites

01:02:42 ◼   ► do where they want you to sign up in

01:02:44 ◼   ► this and you go to the OAuth screen or

01:02:46 ◼   ► whatever it's like this company would

01:02:49 ◼   ► like to read tweets in your timeline see

01:02:52 ◼   ► your followers and as always like tweet

01:02:54 ◼   ► as you and it's like he'll come back

01:02:56 ◼   ► he'll know like who would ever say yes

01:02:59 ◼   ► and yet so many people do because as

01:03:01 ◼   ► soon as you check that you know two

01:03:02 ◼   ► seconds later there's gonna be one of

01:03:04 ◼   ► those blah blah signed up for the

01:03:06 ◼   ► whatever and this this was this was

01:03:09 ◼   ► better in that it didn't want the power

01:03:11 ◼   ► to tweet as you which is crazy known

01:03:13 ◼   ► would say yes to it just wanted you to

01:03:16 ◼   ► tweet something you know on their behalf

01:03:18 ◼   ► and part of it is like social

01:03:20 ◼   ► promotional like meaning like if we

01:03:22 ◼   ► could just get all these guys tweet to

01:03:23 ◼   ► each other but it was so corny and like

01:03:25 ◼   ► that's why I was so shocked to see it

01:03:26 ◼   ► from I think you and marcos like someone

01:03:28 ◼   ► hack their account because i know you

01:03:30 ◼   ► guys don't stand there are things that

01:03:31 ◼   ► they let you tweet is you it's funny I

01:03:33 ◼   ► got a couple and I oh you're not the

01:03:35 ◼   ► only one I got a couple of like hey

01:03:36 ◼   ► whats your twitter account act like just

01:03:38 ◼   ► not i'm not a bunch but like at least

01:03:39 ◼   ► you know more than more than one that I

01:03:41 ◼   ► got like a back two or three like dude

01:03:43 ◼   ► is your twitter account act i'm a

01:03:46 ◼   ► guy-guy English like his came out and he

01:03:49 ◼   ► immediately like tweeted an apology is

01:03:51 ◼   ► I'm really starting at that last week

01:03:53 ◼   ► but I I'm kind of hoping to see this

01:03:55 ◼   ► yeah like apologized on both his and

01:03:58 ◼   ► app.net behalf about a time I by the

01:04:01 ◼   ► time i decided to funded I'd seen all

01:04:03 ◼   ► you guys do this and I had read enough

01:04:06 ◼   ► about the backlash you know that you

01:04:07 ◼   ► didn't have to tweet what they told you

01:04:09 ◼   ► to eat so I just replace that text with

01:04:11 ◼   ► something scolding them for doing this

01:04:12 ◼   ► and so that and my tweets so your tweet

01:04:18 ◼   ► is like one of your tweets featured on

01:04:20 ◼   ► the homepage my tweet is not

01:04:22 ◼   ► but I still but like I said I still

01:04:24 ◼   ► funded them because I i want the same

01:04:26 ◼   ► thing that they want and no one else is

01:04:28 ◼   ► like this this was talking about earlier

01:04:30 ◼   ► today when i was talking to my friend

01:04:31 ◼   ► and trying to convince him to fund this

01:04:33 ◼   ► thing

01:04:33 ◼   ► yeah is it's kind of weird to me that

01:04:36 ◼   ► like what we we want this thing but the

01:04:39 ◼   ► traditional way is I guess you max out

01:04:42 ◼   ► all your credit cards you get a business

01:04:44 ◼   ► loan or you launch it at beings

01:04:46 ◼   ► partially supported by some existing

01:04:47 ◼   ► line of business is this

01:04:49 ◼   ► we're in this weird time period where

01:04:50 ◼   ► the thing to do is not to do any of

01:04:53 ◼   ► those other traditional ways of starting

01:04:55 ◼   ► up a business that requires capital in

01:04:56 ◼   ► time like you know we need a certain

01:04:58 ◼   ► amount of time to make this product to

01:05:01 ◼   ► try to get you know we're going to start

01:05:02 ◼   ► a business and we're gonna start from

01:05:03 ◼   ► nothing so you need seed capital you

01:05:04 ◼   ► need to go into massive debt

01:05:06 ◼   ► those are the traditional ways to do it

01:05:07 ◼   ► now we have this new way which is hey

01:05:09 ◼   ► there's a bunch of other people who

01:05:09 ◼   ► wanted to get the money up front and

01:05:12 ◼   ► it's exciting and interesting and it's

01:05:13 ◼   ► the Kickstarter phenomenon but part of

01:05:15 ◼   ► me says isn't there someone who wants to

01:05:17 ◼   ► do something I app.net who either has

01:05:19 ◼   ► the the capital to do it or like can be

01:05:22 ◼   ► a business that can be funded in

01:05:23 ◼   ► traditional ways to I guess the

01:05:25 ◼   ► traditional way stuck like getting a

01:05:26 ◼   ► business loan Sox maxing out your credit

01:05:28 ◼   ► cards i can imagine that sucking too but

01:05:30 ◼   ► so many businesses but had been started

01:05:32 ◼   ► that way or start from nothing like grad

01:05:34 ◼   ► students who have crappy retail jobs

01:05:37 ◼   ► doing it in their spare time until it

01:05:38 ◼   ► takes off like there's so many other

01:05:40 ◼   ► ways that businesses start I don't like

01:05:42 ◼   ► feeling like oh that doesn't make it

01:05:44 ◼   ► well that was the one way this could

01:05:45 ◼   ► have happened there's so many other ways

01:05:46 ◼   ► I feel like this could happen i'm not

01:05:48 ◼   ► that I wish them you know don't wish

01:05:50 ◼   ► them well but if this doesn't make it i

01:05:53 ◼   ► hope i hope someone else out there and

01:05:55 ◼   ► looks at this and says well there's a

01:05:57 ◼   ► lot of people who want to give money to

01:05:58 ◼   ► make this happen

01:05:59 ◼   ► maybe the same people will say all right

01:06:01 ◼   ► well we got to give all this money back

01:06:02 ◼   ► over here we can't charge these people

01:06:04 ◼   ► but maybe we find some other way to do

01:06:06 ◼   ► this because clearly there's you know

01:06:07 ◼   ► whatever two hundred thousand dollars

01:06:08 ◼   ► worth of people who think this is a good

01:06:10 ◼   ► idea right any other thing too is it

01:06:12 ◼   ► really does require some imagination

01:06:14 ◼   ► upfront to imagine that it could be how

01:06:16 ◼   ► it could make the world a better place

01:06:18 ◼   ► if it existed whereas once it was off

01:06:20 ◼   ► the ground and there were I mean and and

01:06:23 ◼   ► clearly like you know if they're already

01:06:24 ◼   ► even if they don't raise another dollar

01:06:26 ◼   ► they've already got two hundred and

01:06:28 ◼   ► twenty thousand dollars raised or

01:06:29 ◼   ► something like that which it like 1,500

01:06:31 ◼   ► bucks a pieces you know

01:06:34 ◼   ► thousands of people that if there are

01:06:36 ◼   ► thousands more people on there then and

01:06:38 ◼   ► they were using it already

01:06:39 ◼   ► people who are like maybe I should sign

01:06:41 ◼   ► up to wouldn't have to imagine what it

01:06:43 ◼   ► was like they could see will look here's

01:06:44 ◼   ► you know there's people writing clever

01:06:47 ◼   ► posts on this thing i can actually see

01:06:49 ◼   ► the appeal you know it's a lot more

01:06:51 ◼   ► easier to get people to sign up once it

01:06:54 ◼   ► exists then before it exists

01:06:56 ◼   ► yeah and I'd be willing to sell like I

01:06:57 ◼   ► wonder if they like asked everybody and

01:06:59 ◼   ► again i still have to look for something

01:07:00 ◼   ► else I but they said look guys we didn't

01:07:02 ◼   ► make our funding goal