The Talk Show

13: Unusually Open, with Michael Lopp


00:00:00   good morning like the morning Michael

00:00:03   Bob people often date their number one

00:00:06   complaint I think about the talk shows

00:00:07   that I don't introduce my guest

00:00:10   oh I don't we just start talking and we

00:00:11   talk so I I'm introducing you your name

00:00:14   is Michael op mmm I don't think I've

00:00:17   ever heard you

00:00:18   maybe it's South myself as you said

00:00:20   Michael out but I'm either i'd never

00:00:22   heard my full name from you in a really

00:00:24   long time

00:00:27   this microphone is huge John thank you

00:00:29   for the recommendation but I've got this

00:00:31   huge thing point of space which i think

00:00:33   sounds really good but it's just it's

00:00:35   it's dominating the room that would be

00:00:39   the road podcaster yes is my

00:00:41   recommendation it so I had it all the

00:00:44   way back dates back to recommendation

00:00:49   from our good friend and Benjamin former

00:00:52   close to the show more or less the

00:00:56   answer is if you don't know what to get

00:00:58   you want to record a podcast you get the

00:01:00   road podcaster USB mic but it is

00:01:02   enormous it's about the size of like a

00:01:05   grown man's forearm but it i think it I

00:01:09   think it actually here's better than I

00:01:11   do when I first put it on I put on the

00:01:12   headphones my license huge I could hear

00:01:15   my kids in the other room right i mean i

00:01:17   could pick yeah I'm like oh you know are

00:01:20   they doing down there and i took my

00:01:21   headphones off and I couldn't hear them

00:01:23   anymore

00:01:23   could it actually makes me as i told you

00:01:25   an email actually makes me feel Bionic I

00:01:27   can hear everything around me right you

00:01:29   can hear that I i can hear when i

00:01:32   whenever I plugin i can hear the wheels

00:01:33   of my chair on the floor right

00:01:37   did you get the bionic arm thing for it

00:01:39   i did my kids come in and play with it

00:01:41   and they're like this is so awesome that

00:01:43   is radio store like no I'm just nerd

00:01:46   ok big week while two big pieces from

00:01:50   daring fireball I was like I felt

00:01:52   compelled since we were talking to go

00:01:54   and read them you know i'll tell you

00:01:55   this because you'll appreciate this and

00:01:57   I think maybe the people listen to it

00:01:58   listen to the show will appreciate it

00:02:01   maybe it's just the early morning

00:02:03   loopiness but i wasn't i know you know

00:02:06   this that and a few people have noted it

00:02:09   that that yesterday yesterday Monday

00:02:12   there this week the 13th of of august

00:02:14   was in fact the 10-year anniversary of

00:02:18   the first post on daring fireball

00:02:21   congratulations thank you i didn't note

00:02:24   this publicly i didn't mention it I've

00:02:26   never to my knowledge I don't believe

00:02:28   noted publicly that August thirteenth is

00:02:31   an anniversary date for daring fireball

00:02:34   I so like a year ago I didn't know

00:02:37   tonight anniversary i didn't know the

00:02:39   eight that in the seventh

00:02:40   I knew it though I was very much aware

00:02:43   of it like I went to bed Sunday night I

00:02:46   went to bed thinking I hope nobody

00:02:48   notices or says anything tomorrow and

00:02:51   when I woke up it was the opposite there

00:02:53   were a bunch of really nice things cocky

00:02:55   Rosa nice thing there is nothing at the

00:02:57   Atlantic couple people around the web

00:03:03   had did take notice of it knew that it

00:03:06   was the 10-year anniversary and it

00:03:07   everything that everybody wrote about it

00:03:09   was all very complimentary was very very

00:03:10   flattering and I i went from waking up

00:03:14   thinking I hope nobody has noticed this

00:03:16   to thinking well this is this is all

00:03:17   very very nice and I feel very flattered

00:03:19   you remember but the day that i wrote

00:03:24   the first one

00:03:25   yeah remember i do you can you describe

00:03:28   describe it

00:03:30   well I don't know the day so much but I

00:03:33   do remember that I'd spent a weeks

00:03:36   leading up to it working on the site the

00:03:38   design picking the color i mean i've

00:03:40   i've said this like tomorrow and a

00:03:42   couple of times that you know took me a

00:03:43   long time to pick the exact color a

00:03:46   little darker a little lighter little

00:03:48   darker or lighter and looking at in

00:03:50   multiple monitors and trying to find

00:03:52   that the right shade of ever so slightly

00:03:55   blue-tinted gray and and and various

00:03:59   other aspects of the design but

00:04:03   eventually it was ready to go and I just

00:04:05   need to do something to write and and I

00:04:07   the thing i could and i can remember

00:04:10   this feeling very probably is that as

00:04:14   nerve-wracking as it is to write

00:04:15   something for public consumption for me

00:04:18   it's even more nerve-racking to write

00:04:20   something for nobody's consumption that

00:04:25   it's like you know and and in the same

00:04:27   way that it's nerve-racking to get up

00:04:29   and speak in public in front of an

00:04:31   audience to me it would be even more

00:04:34   awkward to get up on a stage with a

00:04:36   microphone and speak in front of an

00:04:37   empty room with a microphone and then

00:04:41   that to me is what publishing the first

00:04:43   article felt like like getting up and

00:04:46   giving a speech in front of what i

00:04:49   suspected to be a completely empty room

00:04:51   and when I the magic is the first step I

00:04:56   think exciting once you have it go into

00:04:58   me and it's like going from going out

00:05:00   for a run right where you know you know

00:05:03   you want to run four miles or three

00:05:05   miles or something like that and if

00:05:06   you're halfway through and you just feel

00:05:08   beat but you know you're not home yet

00:05:11   and you know you're having done the

00:05:12   thing you just keep your feet moving

00:05:14   just keep moving just keep moving and

00:05:16   eventually you're going to be home and

00:05:18   you're gonna have the miles it but to me

00:05:19   that the one that's hardest is right

00:05:22   outside your front door when you haven't

00:05:24   started yet right and you're not sweaty

00:05:27   and you're not tired and you haven't you

00:05:30   know if you haven't even started loving

00:05:31   it

00:05:32   it's just going from i'm standing still

00:05:35   haven't started to ok i'm running that

00:05:38   transition that's the hard part

00:05:40   totally present because once you start

00:05:42   it's it it's way easier to keep going

00:05:44   and it is to get started getting started

00:05:46   is without question the hardest part I

00:05:48   think I've had like three or four

00:05:49   articles on the topic of just that that

00:05:51   nodes you have to give yourself so I

00:05:53   thought about this considerably now and

00:05:57   i will say this I i well and i'm and and

00:06:00   i'm going to be unusually open because

00:06:02   it's you

00:06:03   oh ah but the idea I had was that I

00:06:10   wasn't going to publicly acknowledge

00:06:12   that 10-year anniversary of of daring

00:06:15   fireball was going to tacitly

00:06:17   acknowledged and but i would implicitly

00:06:20   it acknowledged it by publishing on the

00:06:23   actual 10th anniversary a what I thought

00:06:26   to be prototypically daring fireball

00:06:28   which article but the article I was

00:06:31   going to write was the one that I didn't

00:06:33   write on 13th is the one I wrote

00:06:34   yesterday on the further information and

00:06:39   and speculation on the ipad mini but I

00:06:43   didn't write that on the 13 i wrote on

00:06:46   the 13 my review the retina macbook pro

00:06:50   here's how that came about is when I

00:06:53   woke up on under 13 and this is true I

00:06:56   swear and I realized that there were a

00:06:59   couple people around the web who did

00:07:00   notice and acknowledge that 10-year

00:07:03   anniversary of during fireball one of

00:07:04   them was to see the Senate's at the the

00:07:07   Atlantic this young kid he's only in

00:07:09   college Robinson Meyer wrote an article

00:07:12   in the Atlantic called happy 10th

00:07:15   birthday daring fireball and it's it's a

00:07:20   really nice little piece very very

00:07:22   flattering overall anybody who got our

00:07:25   my dad my dad even called me on the day

00:07:27   and my dad like like he often doesn't

00:07:30   acknowledge it but sometimes that he

00:07:32   can't help because there's no other way

00:07:33   that he can acknowledge what he's

00:07:35   talking about but but that he apparently

00:07:36   like I don't know if he does it every

00:07:39   day but at least a couple times a week

00:07:40   my dad Google's my name and sees what's

00:07:43   going on and he doesn't really get it is

00:07:45   not a technology guy right on but

00:07:48   googling my name on Monday this this

00:07:51   came up and you know the Atlantic you

00:07:54   know that's like a a list name and you

00:07:56   decide you see this thing atlantic in

00:07:58   the end and yeah I my dad you know kind

00:08:01   of my dad stay so Robinson Meyer never

00:08:04   heard before but he wrote this nice

00:08:06   piece of mind attend anniversary daring

00:08:09   firebomb he says at the beginning and I

00:08:13   think this is very nice and I feel like

00:08:14   this is a guy who gets it he wrote it's

00:08:17   a blog not just about Apple what about

00:08:19   excellence nice i say that as a sentence

00:08:22   that's actually that's a guy who gets it

00:08:25   and its season 14

00:08:26   it's all very very flattering and

00:08:28   anybody who had an article like this

00:08:30   written about their work should be very

00:08:32   very flattering but I wasn't flattered

00:08:34   because at the very end was this

00:08:37   paragraph is the third from the bottom

00:08:38   it says the past year DF hasn't been as

00:08:41   enjoyable as it has been in the past

00:08:44   Oh Apple groupers Beatrice is engorged

00:08:48   as a company and now seems to be veering

00:08:51   from interesting complex to dolly

00:08:53   complicated parentheses i hope the next

00:08:58   few months prove me wrong on both counts

00:08:59   in parentheses 10 years ago grouper pick

00:09:03   the right story at the right time and

00:09:04   followed the most complete business

00:09:06   turnaround anesthetic parable in recent

00:09:08   history but in light of that victory is

00:09:12   renegade confidence has become an

00:09:14   assured superiority he hasn't written

00:09:18   for a long time and engaging description

00:09:21   of a laptop and now that was a link to

00:09:24   my 2005 article on a powerbook what was

00:09:29   then called a powerbook right 15

00:09:31   powerbook or an account of an

00:09:33   anthropomorphized interface settlement

00:09:36   and in that paragraph really stuck with

00:09:39   me and really I really pissed me off and

00:09:42   that made me that honest to god that's

00:09:44   what made me instead of writing

00:09:45   yesterday about the upcoming tablet

00:09:50   stuff that I thought about and know

00:09:51   about little little little bits here and

00:09:53   there that I know a little bit here and

00:09:55   there that I've sort of thought through

00:09:56   and I thought fuck you i'll show you a

00:09:59   fucking engaging description product you

00:10:05   know I yeah but you know what i mean add

00:10:08   to me and and then I thought about it

00:10:10   after I why did i do that why would i

00:10:12   I'd why would i get so fired up about an

00:10:15   article that I should be should feel

00:10:18   flattered by not fired up by but I feel

00:10:22   like that's the way you have to be I

00:10:23   feel like you've got to if you're not

00:10:26   looking for

00:10:28   I don't sometimes I feel like you need

00:10:30   to look for an enemy not an enemy bet

00:10:32   you I don't know what am I my I if

00:10:36   people knew people who have actually

00:10:38   really changed my day or bend the

00:10:40   sources of articles if they actually

00:10:43   knew who they were

00:10:45   I don't have a lot of the mortises or

00:10:46   anonymous people but the amount of

00:10:47   energy that i get from sort of the

00:10:50   random critic who's sane a critical

00:10:53   right not this the total troll it may be

00:10:56   shocked i mean i can't like do origin

00:10:58   stories and all the articles but the

00:11:00   amount of of energy that I've gotten

00:11:03   from random folks and like hey you know

00:11:05   rands is not resonating with me and

00:11:09   really said anything like a month or two

00:11:10   this person who i do not know at all who

00:11:13   know just ruined my weekend because i'm

00:11:16   going to sit there and write a piece

00:11:17   about pens or something like that this

00:11:19   happens it happens a lot

00:11:21   I'm listening I see everything that

00:11:23   comes by my inbox and it does affect

00:11:26   even though i don't know these people

00:11:27   are right but yeah and in and you'll

00:11:31   make it fire you up

00:11:32   yes right and end and I know that

00:11:35   athletes are like this too and if you

00:11:37   say anything that can be construed as

00:11:39   confrontational it's going up on the

00:11:42   locker room wall and it's going to be

00:11:45   framed and and they're going to use that

00:11:47   and they're going to say off

00:11:49   this guy right you know you think you're

00:11:52   going to be dust you know if you imply

00:11:54   that you think you're going to beat the

00:11:55   opposing team that's going up on the

00:11:57   that's going up on the locker room board

00:11:58   and everybody in the opposing team is

00:12:00   going to see that you need something to

00:12:02   fire you up

00:12:03   yeah I mean it's not about you but like

00:12:05   most of my most of my pieces

00:12:08   I'd literally see like seventy percent

00:12:11   of the piece in my head based on just

00:12:14   some again bit flipping in my head like

00:12:16   I'm like to do and it's like oh I can

00:12:18   that's the thing i want to say right and

00:12:20   it's what it's someone kicking me or

00:12:22   just being inspired by reading something

00:12:24   i can actually see the whole piece and

00:12:26   that's what i want to have that moment

00:12:28   it's just run to the nearest keyboard as

00:12:30   quickly as possible or piece of paper

00:12:32   and just start getting it out there it's

00:12:36   a lovely experience i love when I

00:12:38   capture that I I just paste the link to

00:12:41   do you see this guy named kemper Smith a

00:12:45   distant shape distant shaped on this

00:12:48   beautiful and and he did this with no

00:12:52   help from me and he didn't didn't pay me

00:12:55   in advance i didn't turn down a request

00:12:56   but he did this is he he downloaded all

00:13:00   962 full articles that I written during

00:13:06   fireball over the last 10 years and tag

00:13:08   them himself even though i've actually

00:13:11   been tagging all of my articles all

00:13:14   along but but the tags I've been

00:13:16   applying to them aren't exposed publicly

00:13:19   anywhere they're only in movable-type

00:13:21   behind the scenes and and you know I

00:13:24   guess someday i'll try to expose it

00:13:25   somehow I but it's not publicly

00:13:28   available so this guy downloaded all the

00:13:30   articles read them all and as you read

00:13:32   them tag them all and you can see the

00:13:35   tags he applied underneath and he

00:13:43   I email them and after this came out

00:13:46   because it's so interesting and at

00:13:48   number one I asked him do did you tag

00:13:50   all these yourself and he was like yeah

00:13:52   sigh oh my god I feel almost feel guilty

00:13:55   about that because I've got the tags

00:13:56   behind the scenes and could save you

00:13:59   some work but but maybe the tags he

00:14:02   implied or more interesting but maybe

00:14:04   they're more honest because they're

00:14:05   they're more objective than the text i

00:14:07   would have applied but he even admitted

00:14:09   that he didn't do it from the outset to

00:14:11   achieve the vigil visualization he has

00:14:14   but only realized as he was going that

00:14:16   it would make for a good visualization

00:14:17   is that he's he's applied colors to the

00:14:21   articles on this this graph blue meaning

00:14:25   desktop topics typically almost

00:14:28   certainly mac and pink for mobile

00:14:32   meaning iOS or or ipad i guess and it

00:14:39   just so happens if you think about it

00:14:41   that given that the iphone came out in

00:14:44   2007 that if if now is the 10-year

00:14:48   anniversary of during fireball that it's

00:14:50   actually half of the you know the first

00:14:52   half the first five years that I've been

00:14:54   writing during fireball there was no

00:14:56   iphone in the last five years there has

00:14:59   been an iphone and you can kind of see

00:15:01   and this this graph that has made the

00:15:04   shift in topics on during fireball from

00:15:07   desktop to mobile you got blue on the

00:15:11   left you've got kind of purple in the

00:15:12   middle and then we'll pink on the on the

00:15:15   right so he's also got a pivot to go to

00:15:18   showing our article links as well and

00:15:21   there's something very comforting

00:15:23   stop it looks like you're generally

00:15:25   writing shorter articles but what's more

00:15:27   interesting to me is that there's this

00:15:29   flow to the sides of your articles over

00:15:32   the course of a year it looks like yeah

00:15:35   there's this little like sort of bump it

00:15:37   looks like what winter time I can

00:15:39   actually figure it out but there is a

00:15:41   cake there's a structure to the size of

00:15:43   your articles over the course of the

00:15:44   year which is fascinating

00:15:47   yeah and it's not winter though it's is

00:15:50   its I don't know now but there is there

00:15:54   is a pattern to it but it doesn't quite

00:15:55   seem to be

00:15:56   the cyclical it or doesn't quite

00:15:59   correspond to the calendar in any way

00:16:01   but there is like a sine wave like

00:16:04   motion to it interesting and it is

00:16:08   interesting and it's the sort of thing

00:16:09   where I often think about doing stuff

00:16:11   like this i often think like you know

00:16:13   what I should do is you know and it's

00:16:14   the type of programming that I'm

00:16:16   actually capable of doing is like the

00:16:18   lemme export everything ever written

00:16:19   during fire Paul and count all the words

00:16:21   or or let me I you know I can do stuff

00:16:25   like this is the type of programming i

00:16:26   can do or let me a verge how many words

00:16:29   i've written a month for the last 10

00:16:31   years or you know is there any kind of

00:16:34   pattern in my writing fewer words per

00:16:35   month that my writing you know more are

00:16:38   you know that sort of thing but then I

00:16:41   get freaked out by it I get freaked out

00:16:43   by the self-awareness and I don't do it

00:16:45   so it's interesting to see somebody else

00:16:46   to it and you're right there is there's

00:16:48   definitely like a sine wave pattern here

00:16:51   to the length of the pieces

00:16:52   ok there's another tag down here that's

00:16:54   really important because i know this is

00:16:56   a personal issue of yours gonna have to

00:16:58   get a whiny em boston terrier outside my

00:17:01   windows have to go in like two seconds

00:17:02   but there's a tag here which is was

00:17:05   wrong about something and according to

00:17:08   him just eyeballing this 123456789 10

00:17:13   tulip maybe like 15 there's 15 that he

00:17:17   measured as was wrong about something I

00:17:22   I know you're obsessive about this I

00:17:24   feel like number is low 15 wrong about

00:17:29   something that may feel like numbers

00:17:30   right

00:17:31   I wish that it was zero god I wish I 1.5

00:17:38   times a year though I'm wrong about

00:17:39   something that sense that sounds good

00:17:41   and and you know what one reason that

00:17:42   that's could be could be low is that

00:17:45   he's only counting for lack of a

00:17:48   sufficient term the full articles the

00:17:50   ones that that get a star in the RSS

00:17:53   reader and show up in my arm

00:17:55   have his own methodology is actually

00:17:57   suspect he's got the tag right next to

00:17:59   it is was correct about something and

00:18:01   it's for my favorite and this is why

00:18:09   it's a little bit more interesting that

00:18:11   he tagged the articles rather than going

00:18:13   with if he had somehow had access to my

00:18:16   internal tags which don't have stuff

00:18:18   like that my tags are just stuff like

00:18:19   you know tablets or Android wear samsung

00:18:27   vs apple lawsuit or something like that

00:18:30   he's got one where where is it was a

00:18:33   grouper knows something i think that

00:18:35   Google has inside information yeah there

00:18:37   it is Gruber has inside information

00:18:39   yeah that's pretty good John syracuse

00:18:42   let's see what's going on here huh you

00:18:46   tag John circular less than you've been

00:18:49   wrong

00:18:51   yeah but i do feel i will say this i

00:18:55   will say this and I've I have said this

00:18:57   publicly many times that it is one of my

00:18:59   goals with the site overriding always

00:19:02   every day always very aware of it is is

00:19:06   it's in my mind I don't be wrong

00:19:09   yeah you're right about everything but

00:19:11   on the other hand you want to i want to

00:19:13   take chances i want to push myself and I

00:19:17   if I'm never wrong that I'm not pushing

00:19:21   hard enough

00:19:21   sure right i mean i think that's true in

00:19:24   anything in life right

00:19:25   I mean it's if you don't have any

00:19:27   failures you're not pushing yourself

00:19:29   I and when you are wrong immediately get

00:19:32   on top of it first thing to do when you

00:19:34   realize you're wrong is acknowledged it

00:19:36   and you do it publicly to say you know

00:19:37   what here's this thing I wrote this

00:19:40   that's wrong here's why and get on top

00:19:42   of it do not be the guy who because he

00:19:46   doesn't want to be wrong starts working

00:19:49   on ways to show how when he was wrong he

00:19:51   wasn't wrong

00:19:52   don't be that guy I think it's it i

00:19:55   think it's i think its 10-year

00:19:57   anniversary we can can honor fireball a

00:19:59   little bit but I think that's one of the

00:20:00   defining reasons it's been six as full

00:20:03   as it's the journalism background right

00:20:05   is you don't just you know you don't

00:20:07   like where

00:20:08   and what kind of op-ed pieces and kind

00:20:10   of dreaming and in poetry and whatnot

00:20:12   but it's like it you can base your

00:20:14   statements as best you can

00:20:17   unless you can flag it as otherwise you

00:20:18   based on facts right and just when you

00:20:21   go and you see all the mass media staff

00:20:23   of people with opinions and going back

00:20:25   and forth it's sort of refreshing and

00:20:27   obviously on the fan and bias to

00:20:28   actually like know that in both the

00:20:30   pieces that you did this week it's like

00:20:32   it this is based on the best data that I

00:20:34   have and I'm going to source the best I

00:20:36   can and yes i will have opinions about

00:20:38   this but at the end of the day this this

00:20:40   is this is this is sourced information

00:20:42   does that make sense yeah but if i'm

00:20:45   wrong i'm gonna get right on top of it

00:20:47   so let's just say for example with this

00:20:49   whole iPad Mini or ipad air whatever you

00:20:51   want to call it thing let's say that the

00:20:53   thing ships and it doesn't have a 4 310

00:20:56   like one of the fundamental things I've

00:20:58   been writing about all year is that

00:20:59   they've if Apple makes a smaller ipad is

00:21:01   going to have a 1024 x 768 43 aspect

00:21:05   ratio display at a hundred sixty-three

00:21:07   DPI let's say this thing ships and it

00:21:09   has a 16 29 display a widescreen display

00:21:13   or if I iphone like 32 display well the

00:21:18   first thing I'm going to do is say well

00:21:20   holy should I was wrong and linked to

00:21:21   the instances in the past that I've

00:21:24   written that it's going to have the 43

00:21:26   10-6 you know 1048 by the or 1024 x 768

00:21:31   display and just get it all out and just

00:21:33   say look I was wrong

00:21:35   here here here and here terribly awfully

00:21:37   completely wrong bad assumption and you

00:21:42   know and and you know get right to show

00:21:46   how will show where everything I've been

00:21:48   writing was wrong and immediately try to

00:21:50   get it you know get on top of all that

00:21:51   acknowledged everywhere is wrong and

00:21:53   then get right and then explain what

00:21:54   that means right

00:21:56   no other way to do it I don't understand

00:21:58   people to do it otherwise

00:22:00   I think they don't want to be wrong

00:22:02   there's um no the rotating around

00:22:04   there's another tag here it's very

00:22:05   interesting tags calls somebody jackass

00:22:09   I think you think I think this is under

00:22:11   represented to it looks like in 2006

00:22:13   you're calling a lot of people jackasses

00:22:15   but I think you've done it more like us

00:22:17   me jackass of the week is sort of or

00:22:19   whatever the is it has it died down

00:22:22   yeah definitely but that HC the reason

00:22:25   why is that I think most jackasses of

00:22:27   the week were linked what I call linked

00:22:29   list items not full articles right right

00:22:32   and I would just linked to the jackass

00:22:34   and explain why they're jackass but

00:22:36   without writing a full article about

00:22:37   them so it's there's not going to be a

00:22:39   lot of them on these tags are great

00:22:42   fictitious dialogue this is another one

00:22:45   this is this is one of the first things

00:22:46   that my memories of you was what was the

00:22:48   cancer polarized payment say it's too

00:22:51   early

00:22:51   chrome right anthropomorphised brushed

00:22:55   metal interface exactly this is this is

00:22:57   they feel like a rare treat to me right

00:23:01   now I feel like you're literally you

00:23:03   know you're a lot of your articles it's

00:23:04   clear you're working right you're like

00:23:06   gotta get this right that these I

00:23:07   imagine you sitting back drinking a

00:23:10   martini kind of giggling to yourself as

00:23:12   you're writing the piece and get a

00:23:14   little drunk right this is this is what

00:23:16   i saw in them

00:23:17   yeah and there's no Dino is somehow i

00:23:23   feel like i'm a little overdue for

00:23:24   something silly on the site when we can

00:23:28   have tags to prove it

00:23:29   yeah now these tags are great you know

00:23:32   and i should mention and and I we went

00:23:34   through this last night you you actually

00:23:36   hit your 10th anniversary on ransom

00:23:38   proposed before I did you say it was

00:23:40   earlier this year you don't you're not

00:23:41   quite exactly sure when the baby was

00:23:43   April I wasn't paying attention either

00:23:44   you know but I got coverage on Fox and

00:23:47   you know CNN and that cover story about

00:23:49   me

00:23:50   so was pretty big deal is I played it

00:23:53   played quieter now I was it was 10 years

00:23:55   ago in April I was I was I wasn't gonna

00:23:58   say anything

00:23:59   got a couple notes from folks but i was

00:24:01   i was launching my web fonts at the time

00:24:05   so it seemed like a time at least say

00:24:07   something so

00:24:08   it's a 10 years I find that interesting

00:24:11   that the two of us started completely

00:24:13   independently and and over those years

00:24:15   and many drinks and South thighs and Las

00:24:19   Vegas situations and it's working here

00:24:21   we are sitting here 10 years later

00:24:22   there's something very I'm center just

00:24:25   think about that and there are and and

00:24:28   you know i think a lot of it is the

00:24:29   nature of what's likely if you started

00:24:33   your website circuit 2002 right there's

00:24:37   a very good chance that you're running

00:24:39   movable-type and Beyond are both running

00:24:41   movable-type you're still running loop

00:24:43   type

00:24:43   yeah I've considered other things but I

00:24:45   mean you might have no reason to leave

00:24:47   there is nothing it does it doesn't do

00:24:50   that i needed to do

00:24:51   although I did see that have not movable

00:24:53   type but blogger launch medium last

00:24:57   night inside its I saw that too and it

00:24:59   is funny because I'll tell you what on

00:25:01   the days when I'm actually writing a bit

00:25:03   a bigger article and and the last two

00:25:06   days monday and tuesday this week that's

00:25:08   what I've spent my days doing is

00:25:09   nose-down writing like nobody's talking

00:25:13   to me and I come skipping meals and i'm

00:25:16   just writing writing writing right the

00:25:19   world then passes me by

00:25:21   right like it is kind of it is kind of

00:25:23   mutually exclusive to the other side of

00:25:27   daring fireball where I'm linking to

00:25:28   what's new and technology with brief

00:25:30   pieces like so on days when I'm not

00:25:33   really writing anything big

00:25:34   I'm like on top of the industry and I'm

00:25:36   like within five minutes aware of

00:25:38   everything that's going on everywhere

00:25:41   and on the days when I'm actually

00:25:42   writing it's like like last night I went

00:25:45   I was I don't you know when I realized

00:25:47   that doesn't that medium was announced

00:25:49   but it wasn't when it when it hit like

00:25:51   it was hours later and I was like had

00:25:53   written my article and my family would

00:25:56   you know my wife my son they were in bed

00:25:58   and then I could catch up on Twitter and

00:26:02   then all of a sudden I realize how we

00:26:03   should have Evan Williams just launched

00:26:04   an entire new blogging platform

00:26:06   something but I don't quite get it

00:26:08   I don't get medium no I don't get

00:26:10   together i mean i've given it 15 minutes

00:26:12   and it's seven so you've gotta pay

00:26:14   attention right but it's unlike ok i

00:26:18   haven't found a compelling thing

00:26:19   although they have a very nice

00:26:20   to slab serif emser as their mark in

00:26:24   their logo so but i haven't actually

00:26:26   like digested with the elder up to get I

00:26:28   absolutely feel the same way you do wear

00:26:30   that if the guys last couple of projects

00:26:32   that he helped launch were blogger and

00:26:36   Twitter then yet you know you kind of

00:26:40   want to get you going to get together

00:26:42   benefit that know you you're like yes I

00:26:44   will sign up i will give you my fifty

00:26:46   dollars i will i'm certainly interested

00:26:48   even though i do not get in and even his

00:26:51   miss which I would describe odio as was

00:26:55   the right idea which was a podcast are

00:26:58   going to be a big deal

00:26:59   yeah kind of before like because and and

00:27:03   the thing that killed oh do I think more

00:27:05   or less was Apple getting into podcasts

00:27:08   I remember and a and an apple got into

00:27:11   podcasts surprisingly early for apple

00:27:15   yes like it i'm still I still think I

00:27:19   still think it's one of the most

00:27:20   interesting things apples done the last

00:27:22   10 years was the way that Apple jumped

00:27:23   on podcasting so early

00:27:25   alright I and it kind of killed the

00:27:27   audio but at least even so even even the

00:27:30   one that they missed on the thing that

00:27:32   didn't really amount to much i ended up

00:27:35   being the right idea just wasn't wasn't

00:27:37   the right there wasn't really a business

00:27:39   model he was he was collecting break

00:27:41   people this is my recollection and

00:27:43   during that time to like Dunstan and I

00:27:45   think with this Dorsey was in that and

00:27:47   that means so he had this incubator

00:27:48   going on in there so even though it

00:27:51   didn't work out he had that sort of

00:27:52   universal people around and let you know

00:27:54   when often did someone interesting

00:27:56   things right the long story short I was

00:27:59   that you know is i the the parent

00:28:01   company which is a great name

00:28:02   I i think is one of the great names I've

00:28:04   said this to have I i don't know if that

00:28:06   well but I have said this to my life

00:28:07   when I've seen them is that obvious

00:28:09   corporation is one of my favorite names

00:28:12   in the history of naming anything I can

00:28:16   kind of helps explain it is it is sort

00:28:19   of a like it's an apt description of

00:28:23   everything I've Williams ever does

00:28:25   right right it's like blogger was sort

00:28:27   of an obvious idea Twitter super obvious

00:28:29   idea pod containing it's like it's like

00:28:32   a way of being like are we

00:28:33   the right path is this is just obvious

00:28:35   right right but the idea was that the

00:28:39   audio was their big bat and the thing

00:28:41   that they actually had money invested in

00:28:42   and lots of time and everything and they

00:28:44   like gave up on it and in the meantime

00:28:45   Jack Dorsey who was working there at

00:28:48   this little idea for what about this

00:28:50   thing this idea I have for a centralized

00:28:53   server for sending status messages and

00:28:58   then you know boom Twitter yeah eat the

00:29:01   Duke and pick names medium it's a great

00:29:03   name and exactly describe I mean it

00:29:05   whatever i'm not sure what they're doing

00:29:06   but it's like clearly it's just it's

00:29:08   just like let's try to reimagine the

00:29:10   blogging the the content platform can

00:29:13   let me take a break here and talk about

00:29:16   the first sponsor ok I and i want to

00:29:20   tell you it's to iphone app it's a

00:29:23   repeat sponsor from from few episodes

00:29:26   ago app for your iPhone called humorless

00:29:29   photography app it's a camera app for

00:29:33   your iPhone and it's sort of a do one

00:29:38   thing and do one thing well app and the

00:29:40   one thing the humorless does is take

00:29:44   black and white photography and you like

00:29:46   Michael up you like black-and-white

00:29:47   pictures anyone who follows me on

00:29:49   Instagram knows i'm still furious about

00:29:52   the removal of the gossip filter because

00:29:54   i think it was with which is like 18

00:29:57   months ago i'm still mad about this I

00:29:58   stilt a grip Garth Gotham because I

00:30:01   figured out how to sort of approximated

00:30:03   but a mad and I have a conspiracy theory

00:30:05   about why

00:30:06   alright was removed but please continue

00:30:07   this is a guy was a complete set up

00:30:09   because I know as a guy who follows your

00:30:12   Instagram that you love black-and-white

00:30:14   love photography is all heelys does is

00:30:17   humorous is an app that is meant for

00:30:19   taking it it's just it's it's a

00:30:22   black-and-white camera that's what it is

00:30:24   and i'm a huge fan of it and i've always

00:30:27   been a fan of black and white I think

00:30:28   that there's this weird psychology

00:30:30   behind black and I know it's not natural

00:30:32   and know that it's sort of it the whole

00:30:35   origins of black-and-white were like

00:30:36   technical limitations that kept us from

00:30:38   shooting in color but in hindsight

00:30:40   there's this great great emotional

00:30:42   effect from black-and-white photography

00:30:44   and I i think there's really something

00:30:47   to seeing your pictures in black and

00:30:50   white as you're shooting them so that

00:30:52   you know what you're getting

00:30:54   yeah and that's what euless is all about

00:30:56   and they have a brand-new version 1.5

00:31:01   it's in the months since the last time

00:31:03   they've sponsored to show they've been

00:31:05   hard at work and the some really great

00:31:08   features they've got some new aspect

00:31:10   ratios that you can enjoy so you can

00:31:14   shoot 1 21 which means square which

00:31:16   means like optimized for instant paper

00:31:18   right in the camera intagram 322 which

00:31:22   is the aspect ratio of the iphone screen

00:31:25   or at least the iphone that we have

00:31:26   right now so you can shoot full frame

00:31:29   you got some new aspect ratios you see

00:31:31   him right there in on the screen as you

00:31:33   shoot a bunch of clean up the way that

00:31:38   they made the user interface even more

00:31:39   streamlined improve direct access to

00:31:42   their color filters now the color

00:31:44   filters you say what the hell you said

00:31:45   it's a black-and-white app the color

00:31:46   filter is what i mean is that they

00:31:48   simulate in terms of traditional

00:31:51   photography the way that you would put

00:31:53   like an orange filter over your lens or

00:31:55   a green filter or blue filter which

00:31:57   filters the light that comes through and

00:31:59   you get different degrees of contrast

00:32:01   works for example on and I'll God and

00:32:05   it's so early in the morning that it's

00:32:06   like pitch black here so i can i'm

00:32:08   guessing wrong but like if you want the

00:32:10   sky to pop against the clouds I think

00:32:13   you put like a blue filter on and then

00:32:15   the blue will look dark and the white of

00:32:17   the clouds will look white and you put a

00:32:22   color filter and you get different types

00:32:24   of contrast out of the black and white

00:32:26   so in other words it's not about making

00:32:27   the image tinted color its route

00:32:30   altering what is dark what is light and

00:32:33   the thing they've improved the interface

00:32:35   for that dramatically so that you can

00:32:37   switch the color filter on the fly in

00:32:39   the viewfinder and more conveniently it

00:32:44   really really nice

00:32:45   it's a for the gotham to certain to back

00:32:47   up here the the Gotham filter that to

00:32:49   rebuild it to which involves about two

00:32:51   different apps which was the first as a

00:32:53   black-and-white app the first thing that

00:32:54   I do is actually a red filter which

00:32:57   actually gets that pop that you see

00:32:59   against clouds and makes the sky could

00:33:00   be black so it's like if you list has a

00:33:04   red filter built right in there's a

00:33:05   slider that lets you adjust how strong

00:33:07   it is whether it's dark whether it's

00:33:09   light

00:33:10   I it really is absolutely positively one

00:33:13   of my favorite apps for the iPhone I and

00:33:16   if i'm thinking if I'm feeling black and

00:33:18   white i immediately that's what I know I

00:33:19   want to go to I go to houlis to shoot

00:33:21   the photo

00:33:23   I'm and I I think everybody should check

00:33:26   it out you can go to a humorless hu e le

00:33:31   SS app.com and find out more get a link

00:33:35   to their to their app in the App Store

00:33:37   and if you've already got it just quit

00:33:40   go to the App Store app and and download

00:33:42   the 1.5 update you've you definitely

00:33:44   want it it's it's it's a great update

00:33:48   everybody should get if you don't have a

00:33:49   shame on you you list in the appstore

00:33:53   199 I mean for God's sake won a dollar

00:33:56   ninety-nine buck 99 how who can't afford

00:33:58   that less than ever the coffee exactly

00:34:02   what we're talking about what the hell

00:34:08   were we talking about

00:34:10   we were we were we were we were talking

00:34:12   about ever and medium however serial

00:34:15   entrepreneurs and that sort of thing

00:34:16   yeah I said but i don't quite get I

00:34:18   don't get what medium is quite all about

00:34:20   but I feel like it i feel like they need

00:34:22   to do it I'll get it as more people who

00:34:25   are on it use it

00:34:27   totally i'll pay very close attention so

00:34:31   but also blogging really again we're

00:34:33   doing this

00:34:34   that's right now I'm cloud the thing i

00:34:36   saw that help me explain it and and he

00:34:38   is end and you know he's like one of my

00:34:41   go-to guys that i've been reading since

00:34:43   long before i canno and we're talking

00:34:45   about me and you blogging for 10 years

00:34:47   but like makes me feel like it hasn't

00:34:49   even been that long because this guy's

00:34:50   been at it like when I got started I

00:34:52   feel like he was already added for a

00:34:53   long time

00:34:54   Dave want dave winer I saw dave winer on

00:34:57   Twitter last night and he's already on

00:34:58   medium and has an account and I mean

00:35:01   literally the guy dave winer arguably

00:35:03   invented blogging maybe even invented

00:35:06   the

00:35:06   word and I like the guy was writing

00:35:09   blogging software like as like well some

00:35:12   of us haven't even learned HTML yet in

00:35:15   the nineties and the way he described it

00:35:20   was that in medium that you don't you

00:35:24   don't put a category on a post you put a

00:35:28   post you put a post in a category right

00:35:31   like a centralized category in the

00:35:33   system which is sort of an interesting

00:35:36   way to think about it you don't just

00:35:37   write a post and tag it Apple there's

00:35:40   like an apple category and you can put a

00:35:41   post in it and then somebody out there

00:35:44   using it would be surfing the Apple

00:35:45   category and then they'll see your post

00:35:47   it's not about the individual necessary

00:35:50   it's looking at these buckets of stuff

00:35:52   that if you want to go see I don't know

00:35:53   interesting or new or Apple you can

00:35:55   stroll down and see all of the different

00:35:56   pieces inside of it that makes sense

00:35:58   it's simple that makes sense yeah

00:36:00   something like that I you get what you

00:36:06   get you have a macbook pro with retina

00:36:08   display I don't and I knew you'd ask

00:36:11   that and then I have I have I feel bad

00:36:14   because I have seen enough around and

00:36:16   then work that it's it's it's easy just

00:36:19   means you're going to say this anyway

00:36:21   but you just see it in your life is

00:36:23   completely changed and everything else

00:36:25   starts to look just you know not so

00:36:27   shiny

00:36:28   yeah so that is sort of one of the

00:36:30   things that kept me that like had that

00:36:33   review that I had that kept in the draft

00:36:36   folder for weeks longer than I had

00:36:38   originally anticipated is this whole

00:36:40   angle of it being a machine and a

00:36:44   technology that I loved and and I say

00:36:48   that word with no hyperbole that i

00:36:50   absolutely adore it

00:36:52   I mean I love it it like strikes my

00:36:55   childlike wonder

00:36:58   nerd nerve in a way that that nothing

00:37:03   like nothing since the original iphone

00:37:05   has but on the other hand it is not the

00:37:08   machine for me and and I I'd it's like I

00:37:12   couldn't square that circle because i

00:37:15   don't want a 15-inch

00:37:17   laptop anymore even though it is

00:37:20   noticeably thinner and noticeably

00:37:23   lighter than any previous 15 inch laptop

00:37:26   from apple before I've really gotten

00:37:29   used to when i leave the house with a

00:37:31   computer that was this tiny little

00:37:33   sliver of a macbook air right

00:37:36   what is your should notice but what is

00:37:39   your what is your desktop setup because

00:37:41   I'm wrestling with the same thing right

00:37:42   now is I've got the cheese grater right

00:37:43   here on the floor and I've got the 30

00:37:45   inch and I about the 27-inch next to it

00:37:48   so we've got some pixels with some

00:37:49   serious pixel here my my desktop setup

00:37:52   is totally janky it really it's it's

00:37:55   ridiculous it's it's an old it actually

00:37:58   is a 15-inch macbook pro but I don't use

00:38:01   it as a macbook pro it's a macbook pro

00:38:03   that never leaves the desk and I don't

00:38:05   use the built-in display on driving a 20

00:38:09   inch mirror a measly little 20 and

00:38:12   cinema display might the macbook pro my

00:38:15   desk is sold that it has the grace the

00:38:18   gray keyboard not the black keyboard but

00:38:20   what is your upgrade for that because

00:38:22   this is the one and i feel like my

00:38:23   upgrade this is it this is the thing is

00:38:25   that my upgrade is I wanted to be a

00:38:28   retina imac right and I don't want to

00:38:31   buy an imac that's not retina and I sort

00:38:34   of had it as a vague thought before and

00:38:36   now that I've seen an actual retina

00:38:38   display its mike adamant like I can't

00:38:42   imagine buying a new any new mac that's

00:38:44   not a retina right I can't imagine i

00:38:46   actually left when i left the WWDC

00:38:49   keynote this year in june i was very

00:38:53   excited about the retina macbook pro but

00:38:56   i also thought well now they've they've

00:38:58   updated the heirs and I my air my 11

00:39:01   chair is two years old my god it's from

00:39:04   2010 and it's the the last one that

00:39:08   Apple made that doesn't have a light up

00:39:10   keyboard right if you remember in 2010

00:39:12   the 11-inch didn't have a light up

00:39:14   keyboard a 13-inch tube and and then

00:39:17   they came out with a 2011 update that

00:39:20   was a real nice update and I skipped

00:39:22   because i just bought the previous

00:39:23   generation and now I felt like leaving

00:39:25   the keynote I thought well now it's two

00:39:26   generations after mine the thing only

00:39:29   cost a thousand bucks

00:39:30   I'm sure I can you know find someone

00:39:34   else to take this two-year-old 1 i'll

00:39:37   get it and I left the keynotes excited

00:39:40   about the retina macbook pro been

00:39:41   thinking hey I should quick jump on

00:39:43   Apple that common pre-order a brand-new

00:39:45   11-inch air to replace this one right

00:39:48   I really I honestly was thinking maybe

00:39:50   you know I would

00:39:51   quick preorder one immediately sight

00:39:53   unseen just quick preorder one and I

00:39:56   didn't I waited and then the longer i

00:39:58   use the retina 15-inch macbook pro that

00:40:00   Apple loan me as a review unit and now I

00:40:03   I can't bring myself to do it and I

00:40:05   cannot spend money on a machine that's

00:40:07   not it doesn't have a Retina display

00:40:09   so you're gonna do the imac if and when

00:40:12   it ever comes out as your desktop that's

00:40:14   going to be your desktop machine that's

00:40:16   what I'm might in theory what I would

00:40:17   love to do is get a retina Brian if if

00:40:21   though if Apple were to ship cinema

00:40:25   displays with retina just retina right

00:40:28   and quality then i would buy one of

00:40:30   those and I don't know I guess get a mac

00:40:32   pro or or Mac Mini or something to drive

00:40:35   it

00:40:36   yeah I think that's the move because i

00:40:38   feel like i'm wondering if i'm going to

00:40:40   go to a completely mobile solution but i

00:40:42   have the same quantity which is I fly a

00:40:44   lot and the only thing to take on a

00:40:47   plane is an error

00:40:48   there's just no doubt in my mind that

00:40:50   it's it's it's easy to slide in the

00:40:52   thing that's the chair in front of me

00:40:54   it's light it's the right size and when

00:40:57   you're in one of those airports that has

00:40:59   like a hundred and twenty-two and not

00:41:03   called terminals like where they called

00:41:04   gates I got in 20 and you you like all

00:41:07   right you get through security and

00:41:09   you're like in an unfamiliar airport

00:41:11   you're like all right I've got gate ab7

00:41:13   where am i and you look up and it says

00:41:15   gate to right here like ah Christ you

00:41:20   get when you get to gate e7 if you're

00:41:22   not in the era of the macbook air you

00:41:24   don't feel like like you're one shoulder

00:41:27   hurts and your other one doesn't write

00:41:28   exactly used to like it used to be like

00:41:30   now if you know I feel like I'm you know

00:41:32   doing manual labor here I feel like one

00:41:34   too much you know one of my shoulders is

00:41:36   ready to fall off right it is addictive

00:41:40   the lightweight and you know if

00:41:42   you know it if you're not and I guess if

00:41:45   you're in first class you know you can

00:41:47   you can even set up an imac up there but

00:41:50   in a regular which see it is it it is an

00:41:54   enormous advantage to have a macbook air

00:41:57   well even even in first class that i'm

00:41:58   doing a lot but it's still it's just

00:42:00   it's for me it's a nice trade-off

00:42:02   between enough screen real estate the

00:42:04   moving it around but also you know just

00:42:08   the perfect size keyboard there's that

00:42:10   the the smaller keyboard i know there's

00:42:12   a lot of folks like that really really

00:42:13   small some form factor is just drives me

00:42:15   a little bit crazy so I it's the perfect

00:42:17   it's the perfect size for me on the

00:42:19   travel and I so I you know I in theory

00:42:24   like a and you know I'm two years from

00:42:28   now I i assume that this will be no

00:42:31   problem and i'll have it all is well

00:42:32   have a Retina imac wearing a desk in my

00:42:34   office and a retina 11-inch macbook air

00:42:38   right I take with me everywhere else too

00:42:41   huh is it multiple times

00:42:43   no one monitor I i had multiple monitor

00:42:47   thing I had it years ago

00:42:49   last time i had like a real office job

00:42:51   but I worked at bare-bones software i

00:42:53   had multiple monitors and I did

00:42:56   appreciate it

00:42:57   I know exactly you know what people are

00:42:59   talking about

00:43:00   ah but it doesn't really well I don't

00:43:04   know it doesn't really work for me do

00:43:05   you do the whole expose whatever always

00:43:07   forget what it's called this this year

00:43:09   do you do multiple debt virtual desktops

00:43:11   sometimes sometimes especially like from

00:43:15   like when I'm writing a big article is

00:43:17   out the spaces right and i'll put I have

00:43:21   everything in space everything is space

00:43:22   one except space to is only the the the

00:43:28   BB a document i'm typing in and the

00:43:31   Safari windows that are specific Lee

00:43:34   opened for that article right that I've

00:43:37   got like his research and then i can say

00:43:39   space to is is the stuff I'm working on

00:43:42   for the article but it's funny though

00:43:44   because like i've noticed this the last

00:43:47   two days because the last two days I've

00:43:49   spent writing these articles is

00:43:51   that i'll start out and it seems perfect

00:43:54   for space to only has two windows BB a

00:43:58   document and one safari window with two

00:44:01   tabs by the time i'm done i've got like

00:44:04   seven Safari windows each with four tabs

00:44:07   open over there losses many Safari

00:44:09   windows is the front and the whole thing

00:44:10   is just as big a jumble is my space

00:44:13   number one right but it is a

00:44:15   partitioning way as I did the same thing

00:44:17   its that's what am I focusing on and

00:44:19   where am i doing research I have another

00:44:20   one which is basically distractions

00:44:23   right so if I'm like taking a mental

00:44:24   break its that window that has twitter

00:44:26   in whatever other things are kind of

00:44:28   sitting by my desktop so one of the

00:44:34   reasons i ask you about the render

00:44:35   display name

00:44:36   yeah is is that like one of the ways

00:44:40   that you and I are very much alike is is

00:44:42   a a relentless pursuit of perfection in

00:44:49   and to an obsessive obsessively detailed

00:44:53   degree correct on and and the retina

00:44:58   display enables that right right like I

00:45:01   mean you've at least you you like loaded

00:45:03   up your website in a Retina display

00:45:05   oh no the night I had this actually

00:45:07   looking at your side at one point this

00:45:08   is before the retina macbook came out

00:45:12   was and reading my logo right because I

00:45:14   don't logo years ago and I suddenly

00:45:17   looked at it as on the ipad ipad 2 and I

00:45:20   was like what the hell happened right as

00:45:22   well as if suddenly all of those jaggies

00:45:24   and all of that like that that stuff

00:45:26   that's lost on their regular displays

00:45:29   was suddenly this in my face and it was

00:45:30   it looked awful unlike is everybody

00:45:33   looking at this for the last 10 years

00:45:34   right so that was my first like moment

00:45:37   like oh the game is different regarding

00:45:40   how are actually going to have to have

00:45:42   our images and what our fonts are gonna

00:45:43   look like I i noticed and i noticed this

00:45:46   last week because it will there is a day

00:45:47   and and i hope to write about it soon is

00:45:50   and it took me as always with anything

00:45:54   like this aid a way more time that I

00:45:57   thought it would I upgraded the fav icon

00:46:00   daring fireball last week on

00:46:03   and for a couple of reasons but it took

00:46:06   me way longer than i thought it would

00:46:07   but i upgraded it and and mainly to to

00:46:13   rectify it right and i did notice and as

00:46:17   I was doing it and went around the web

00:46:18   and tried to see well who else has a

00:46:19   retina quality fabric on marine ran

00:46:22   trans has a retina fav icon i noticed

00:46:26   that because and it is one of those

00:46:27   things were when you're surfing you look

00:46:29   at your website on the retina macbook

00:46:31   pro and if you don't you look up at the

00:46:33   URL and you see that that little little

00:46:36   time fav icon but it's not retina just

00:46:38   like oh that's not gonna work just

00:46:40   sentence right yeah it does yeah exactly

00:46:43   it looks like somebody fax it to you and

00:46:48   it's like immediately it was like it was

00:46:50   like pain in my heart it was like I get

00:46:53   this hurts me it hurts me as though I'm

00:46:56   I'm listening to somebody insult my wife

00:47:00   or my child

00:47:01   alright it hurts me because my beloved

00:47:05   daring fireball fav icon now looks like

00:47:07   a complete looks like looks like a piece

00:47:11   of paper the wet piece of paper I just

00:47:13   peeled off my shoe

00:47:14   I've got to fix this but there aren't a

00:47:18   lot of resources online for how to make

00:47:21   a retina quality fabric on its its its

00:47:26   do you know and you know it and it's a

00:47:27   lot of SEO crap like the SEO crap for

00:47:30   how to make a fav icon dominates the

00:47:33   search results yeah that's why I want to

00:47:34   write about it you know but I knew that

00:47:36   you've got it but the other thing too

00:47:38   and i wrote about this in my review is

00:47:41   that I and this is where your way way

00:47:44   ahead of me your way at me in and i'm

00:47:47   way behind the times is that on on the

00:47:50   retina macbook pro and I think it's true

00:47:54   for the iphone and the ipad 2 but I feel

00:47:58   like it r is is even more prominent on

00:48:02   the retina Mac I that you that did it

00:48:08   it's so much like print quality outlet

00:48:12   that you want real fonts the on-screen

00:48:14   funds and you've switched I've

00:48:17   I don't know when but you've switched

00:48:18   this year to ideal sands from a muffler

00:48:25   and for Jones um it was around the time

00:48:29   of the 10-year anniversary's want to

00:48:30   switch into your credit the idea to even

00:48:33   like consider this idea was was from you

00:48:35   you i gotta i was flying and I landed

00:48:39   and I got this rapid text or tweet or

00:48:42   something from you you're like oh my god

00:48:44   ideal sands got a big i think it was

00:48:47   distance so that the inception is is

00:48:49   from you although i have i have turned

00:48:51   it on and it's beautiful it's gorgeous

00:48:55   I'd literally it literally to your to

00:48:57   your point is when I first loaded up on

00:48:59   the ipad 2 with all I else and I of

00:49:02   Sentinel izi as a headline and it

00:49:05   I feel like there's the world is a

00:49:07   better place right i mean it i did

00:49:09   there's order and there's there's beauty

00:49:11   and its I can't describe the feeling of

00:49:13   actually seeing great typography on the

00:49:16   blog I didn't I'd only really upgrade i

00:49:19   did a couple other nips and tucks but

00:49:21   only upgraded the typography the whole

00:49:24   layout as the same but it feels to me

00:49:26   whenever I see it feels like a brand-new

00:49:28   side it it looks great on a non retina

00:49:32   display a great fun and and one of the

00:49:34   reasons and and I think it's super

00:49:36   interesting the the hfj web fonts to my

00:49:42   knowledge are only in its not publicly

00:49:45   available the only three sites i know of

00:49:48   that have the hfj web fonts are you

00:49:54   Jason cocky and and proc Obama like

00:50:02   that's pretty good company

00:50:04   you cocky and and Obama yeah it's not

00:50:08   like that it was one of the reasons why

00:50:10   is that it is you talk to these guys

00:50:12   talk to anybody who's working on

00:50:14   distributing web fonts and it is really

00:50:19   hard it is it's super simple it's as

00:50:21   simple as linking to anything like in

00:50:23   reg or a style sheet or anything on the

00:50:26   web to get one working get web phones

00:50:28   working

00:50:29   technically right and it is incredibly

00:50:33   hard and painstaking and glyph by glyph

00:50:38   requires all of this and drawn work

00:50:42   yeah get them to look good

00:50:46   everywhere meaning on the mac on iOS on

00:50:50   Android and what's the the other the the

00:50:57   OS four pcs from Microsoft alright is it

00:51:01   but i totally don't know I've been

00:51:03   ignoring microsoft were so remember that

00:51:05   is not

00:51:08   christ almighty it's on like ninety

00:51:10   percent of all computers in the world

00:51:12   anyway whatever its called

00:51:16   it's really really hard to get web fonts

00:51:18   that look good there because they use

00:51:20   the all these different platforms use

00:51:22   different anti-aliasing algorithms they

00:51:24   have different software that actually

00:51:25   renders the the outlines into bitmaps

00:51:28   that helped push them to pixels on

00:51:30   screen and these guys you know you do

00:51:34   you think like me guys like me and you

00:51:36   sweat the details enfants it's like the

00:51:38   guys who actually make fonts like it you

00:51:42   know it's amazing that they can even get

00:51:43   out of bed because they you know they

00:51:46   really really sweat the details on and

00:51:48   they notice things like when one side of

00:51:51   uppercase M is a half a pixel thicker

00:51:56   than the other side when it's rendered

00:51:58   on this browser on this platform and

00:52:02   that's what's taking so long for all

00:52:04   these guys to get you know to get these

00:52:06   fonts out as web front-end the other

00:52:08   thing for hf and Jade in particular i

00:52:10   believe is that they're also just super

00:52:13   concerned with with you know making sure

00:52:15   that it's it's fairly license they don't

00:52:17   want right fonts out in the open so

00:52:19   right there really obsessive about that

00:52:21   which i think is absolutely the right

00:52:23   thing to do it's so easy to to steal

00:52:26   upon if you will and did their work is

00:52:29   mean as you just described it's

00:52:31   painstaking work no one ever looks at

00:52:33   fonts they do not see any of the work

00:52:35   involved and actually pulling it off and

00:52:37   who stares at a set of letters and goes

00:52:39   Wow

00:52:40   note that ? is like a work of art in

00:52:42   itself it times up by the entire

00:52:45   character set you're talking about a

00:52:46   massive amount of work and I and I think

00:52:49   one of the things are tweaking and why

00:52:51   it's not this is my opinion out there

00:52:53   two more people is they're just making

00:52:55   sure that it's it's rock-solid in terms

00:52:56   of importance of protecting their their

00:52:58   hard work right

00:53:00   absolutely and but you really the bottom

00:53:04   line now is that this this transition

00:53:07   from only using the fonts that are

00:53:09   available by default with the one they

00:53:12   call the website fonts right you know

00:53:14   their users like this list of like you

00:53:15   know 15 fonts that are available on mac

00:53:18   and windows and android or whatever i

00:53:22   guess android doesn't have any font

00:53:23   androids got like serif and sans serif

00:53:26   or something like that was terrible but

00:53:27   you know there's the website fonts that

00:53:29   everybody is known from 1997 onward and

00:53:32   it's like you know the bottom line is

00:53:34   like you're either picking times

00:53:36   verdanna or Georgia for fonz and now you

00:53:39   know with the web fun thing you can pick

00:53:41   any of these fonts and there's typekit

00:53:42   which as you know like a whole bunch of

00:53:44   funds from adobe and and other great

00:53:47   indian browsers are type vendors and

00:53:52   they look good on anywhere and it's

00:53:54   because they've spent a lot of time to

00:53:56   make sure they look at my god did they

00:53:58   look good you look great on the retina

00:54:00   display there's only there's only one

00:54:02   complaint and I don't know if you have

00:54:04   like a huge amount of people that are

00:54:05   listening to us at this point but

00:54:07   there's a load issue and it's not just a

00:54:10   challenge a solution i've seen it

00:54:12   elsewhere there's a and maybe it's a

00:54:13   browser issue but there's a double load

00:54:15   issue when you first load the page you

00:54:18   first you get a render and then there's

00:54:19   a second render it doesn't really line

00:54:21   it doesn't really flow the page but when

00:54:24   the fonts are actually loading so

00:54:25   there's this eighth of a second half of

00:54:28   a second where you get the correct

00:54:30   geometry with like but all the bulleted

00:54:33   mean that underlines and whatnot and the

00:54:35   typefaces have it loaded yet and then it

00:54:37   shows up the fast machine the slower

00:54:40   I mean that faster the Machine the less

00:54:41   of lag there that's the only thing that

00:54:44   like bugs me is like this second or so

00:54:46   we're still loading it doesn't come in

00:54:48   as one doesn't come in as one just

00:54:50   render the page

00:54:52   minor thing you're going to notice

00:54:54   you're going to be trying this on at

00:54:56   some point and you're gonna be it's

00:54:57   gonna be four in the morning and you're

00:54:59   going to be like just about done you're

00:55:00   going to go into an ipad 2 and you're

00:55:02   reloading like how much load thing I'm

00:55:04   just telling you now I'm saving you some

00:55:06   time

00:55:07   i think it's i don't think it's a hnj

00:55:10   thing I think it's a think it's a

00:55:11   browser issue right now and there's a

00:55:14   phrase for it like it's like a lingo

00:55:16   it's like the flash before something i

00:55:20   don't know i add something area so

00:55:22   ridiculously early in the morning for me

00:55:24   i cannot be but there-there it i know

00:55:26   that i've seen it and every other people

00:55:28   have commented on it and i also know

00:55:30   that a big there's a big deal like in

00:55:33   terms of the latency but switching from

00:55:35   using built-in fonts to web phone right

00:55:38   that it it really affects people who are

00:55:40   on high latency connection yet like for

00:55:43   example all of our friends down in New

00:55:46   Zealand right which you know is like

00:55:49   isolated and sort of has like a crappy

00:55:51   connection to the rest of the entire

00:55:53   internet right I i know that that

00:55:58   depending on where your how you're

00:56:00   serving your websites where you're

00:56:01   getting them from that that delay

00:56:04   between the initial page render and when

00:56:06   the actual phone kicks in is is even

00:56:08   worse down there

00:56:09   I've had one complaint from folks about

00:56:11   it i haven't had one there was some

00:56:12   someone running some bizarre butu blah

00:56:16   blah blah and that had a complete but

00:56:18   everyone else is this was I was worried

00:56:20   that there was some part of the

00:56:21   demographic there was gonna be some

00:56:23   technology some browser i wasn't able to

00:56:25   support had one complaint and it was

00:56:27   completely edge case a linux

00:56:30   distribution which was satisfying for me

00:56:32   I felt like I was a little bit ahead of

00:56:34   the times but it's not it's not at all

00:56:37   we've already blown past the hour mark

00:56:38   and I promised bunch of people that the

00:56:40   show would only be an hour long but

00:56:42   right we're gonna we're gonna head

00:56:43   towards the finish working towards the

00:56:45   finish

00:56:46   let me do the second sponsor read going

00:56:48   in and then we've got a couple of other

00:56:49   things i want to cover before before I

00:56:51   let you go on and our second sponsor it

00:56:54   this to me is is serendipity

00:56:57   this is a delightful one-two punch of

00:56:59   sponsors uh is our second sponsor is a

00:57:04   photo delight

00:57:06   it's an app for the iPad from from our

00:57:09   friends at global delight a photo

00:57:12   delight is a photo colorizing app for

00:57:17   iPad so you got our first sponsor heelys

00:57:20   all about black and white photography

00:57:22   now we've got an ipad app that's all

00:57:25   about color photography on the ipad i

00:57:28   feel lied to me that serendipity

00:57:30   I mean that's this to me is is is a sign

00:57:32   that the universe works now

00:57:36   photo delight lets you create a really

00:57:39   cool pictures out of ordinary snapshots

00:57:42   and it's got just really they've got

00:57:45   they call it smart touch that lets you

00:57:47   adjust your photo with you know just by

00:57:51   touching it in and put your finger on

00:57:53   spots and I you can do color spill you

00:57:58   just put color right there and it's real

00:58:00   smart about what it does as you touch

00:58:02   the photo it detects the color you want

00:58:04   to highlight by your touch on that part

00:58:07   of the image and it continues to reveal

00:58:09   only that color in the image wherever

00:58:12   else you move your finger without

00:58:14   lifting it and you could produce is

00:58:18   really really amazing footage you have

00:58:20   to kind of do you have to try it to see

00:58:22   what i mean but it really produces

00:58:23   striking images without spending a lot

00:58:26   of time

00:58:27   zooming in and the racing and stuff like

00:58:31   that it's it's it's just a really quick

00:58:34   way with just a couple of quick taps on

00:58:37   the parts of the photo you want to

00:58:38   highlight to really really make it super

00:58:40   vibrant and you know more or less more

00:58:44   cowbell

00:58:45   it's one of my that we just the wife and

00:58:48   I just went to Yellowstone with the kids

00:58:50   and literally eighty percent of time on

00:58:55   the iphone is sitting there between the

00:58:57   two of us battling on Instagram and

00:59:00   seriously and she's better than I am by

00:59:03   the way just so everyone knows but it's

00:59:05   a it's because I've got a set of

00:59:09   photo editing apps that we have and that

00:59:11   in the goal for each of us is what

00:59:13   combination of these apps and they're in

00:59:15   their set of features can we use to like

00:59:17   outdo the other person this is sitting

00:59:19   in bed at nine doing photo processing

00:59:21   right who would have imagined right I've

00:59:24   got an entire page

00:59:27   why don't you come home screen p.m. on

00:59:29   my iphone that is just for diddling a

00:59:32   picture that's gonna go to Instagram

00:59:34   photo delight for the ipad no it means

00:59:38   the highlights the new version is to

00:59:40   point out let me just there's the

00:59:41   highlights and we just read these

00:59:42   highlights is great gorgeous UI for the

00:59:45   retina display check totally agree it is

00:59:47   absolutely pixel-perfect on the retina

00:59:49   iPad in parentheses 3i they're

00:59:53   intelligent smart touch ensuring that

00:59:56   that the parts of the photo you touch

00:59:59   that

00:59:59   that

01:00:00   the parts that get highlighted you get

01:00:02   to color eyes photos of up to 20

01:00:04   megapixels

01:00:05   I mean I don't even know where you're

01:00:06   going to get 20 megapixel pictures onto

01:00:08   the iphone ipad but that's what it

01:00:09   supports up to so you're all set

01:00:11   brush settings accidental stroke

01:00:14   correction options pinch pan gestures

01:00:16   for finer adjustments its integrated

01:00:19   with iOS's Twitter and Facebook sharing

01:00:22   you can share to flickr you can share

01:00:24   the photobucket or by email you can send

01:00:27   it anywhere you want and they've got a

01:00:29   contest they've got a contest where

01:00:31   there's a photo colorizing contest share

01:00:33   a pic when a gift where a user can

01:00:35   participate to win a twenty-dollar

01:00:36   itunes gift card and you can find more

01:00:40   details on their website at

01:00:42   www.google.com global delight calm and

01:00:49   their app is called photo delight and

01:00:50   you can find out more about the contest

01:00:52   there and buy it by the app for the iPad

01:00:54   and and I recommend it completely it's a

01:00:58   great great app you know your wife your

01:01:02   wife's Instagram account to me is almost

01:01:05   like a fake Instagram account where it's

01:01:08   like it's like the the like like that

01:01:12   the account that Instagram would show in

01:01:15   the appstore screenshots for what do you

01:01:18   do with instagram because it's it's all

01:01:21   of these like scenic landscapes right

01:01:24   and and I I don't know what she does i

01:01:28   don't know if if she's got like her own

01:01:31   personal jet airplane but it's like all

01:01:33   of a sudden it's like here's one where

01:01:35   it's like trees and woods and mountains

01:01:37   and Michael that's I think that's word

01:01:39   and that's where the lobsters live right

01:01:41   and the next one is like a desert

01:01:42   landscape and the next one is like the

01:01:44   ocean and the next one is is it it it

01:01:49   they're all over the place

01:01:50   I don't know how I don't know how it

01:01:51   happened I don't know where how she's

01:01:53   getting we live in Santa Cruz Mountains

01:01:55   in California and there's lots of the

01:01:57   the coasters I'm looking out the window

01:01:59   right now I can see the Pacific Ocean

01:02:00   we're in the middle of a redwood forest

01:02:02   and there's lots of diversity so but the

01:02:05   larger point is she's really fucking

01:02:07   good at this

01:02:07   which is incredibly annoying to me

01:02:09   because you know we obviously like how

01:02:12   many likes you get

01:02:13   that a right and she's got a far less

01:02:15   than me but ratio wise and just kicking

01:02:17   my ass I'm kicking my ass and she's all

01:02:20   its in i think i think i will I not

01:02:23   she's not gonna hear this because I'm

01:02:24   not gonna tell her about that i'm doing

01:02:26   the show by the way if you can hear this

01:02:28   is I think what she's good at and is in

01:02:31   its it's an important thing is if you

01:02:32   look at the rands the Rams instagrams I

01:02:35   go for like high contrast and deep

01:02:38   colors i think my composition is ok but

01:02:41   she goes with subtle right and it's in

01:02:43   its I don't do so because i feel like i

01:02:45   need to like turn up the knobs and

01:02:46   whatever direction as loud as she's very

01:02:48   good at like finding a great great great

01:02:51   look and then just make this subtle

01:02:53   changes supposed to like throw down the

01:02:55   Gotham or whatever you know intense you

01:02:57   know saturation that randy was going for

01:02:59   I i think that you and I are more or

01:03:02   less on par photography quality-wise

01:03:04   where you and I can take some pictures

01:03:06   are like wow that's pretty cool for a

01:03:08   picture you took with your phone right

01:03:09   your wife though is that she takes

01:03:12   picture of my cum on you took that with

01:03:13   your iphone you've gotta be kidding

01:03:15   you gotta be kidding me I i don't think

01:03:19   i could get a picture like that out of

01:03:20   my I 2500 dollar can 5d you're not

01:03:25   telling her this is everyone else that's

01:03:27   not too can't hear this because I'm but

01:03:29   she does and and you can vouch for that

01:03:31   she takes those pictures with the iphone

01:03:33   it's all iphone she wasn't having it I

01:03:34   do i do in my heart I do think she

01:03:36   cheats i think because i think there's

01:03:38   one there's one cheat

01:03:40   she took a picture with the kids at one

01:03:41   point I'm saying know that her pictures

01:03:43   every single day look like all iphone

01:03:45   sweater gun when it's going to talk

01:03:51   about their you know what I want to talk

01:03:53   about is a little bit on the website

01:03:56   that you surprised that Apple isn't

01:04:01   using web plans yet on the website

01:04:03   yeah i'm loading it just to make sure

01:04:07   that they didn't do it this morning

01:04:08   because you know that would be funny you

01:04:12   know it's you know I used to work at

01:04:15   Apple um it's just about to ask you the

01:04:18   convention you always have to ask after

01:04:20   you have to double-check with anybody

01:04:23   um yeah the website i gotta happen it's

01:04:29   gotta happen eventually and the same is

01:04:31   true for me though maybe it's just as

01:04:33   surprising that i'm not using web fonts

01:04:35   yet the plane with the website for me

01:04:37   even when we were there is it's like in

01:04:41   tonight my friends run it so I can you

01:04:43   know rip on him cuz they're my friends

01:04:44   but it's it's a beautiful beautiful

01:04:46   sight is it is it's gorgeous sight but

01:04:49   if you go look at it i mean there's this

01:04:51   isn't an application if you go like view

01:04:52   the source the amount of technology

01:04:55   behind the site is pretty low like when

01:04:57   you login to apple.com and answers you

01:04:59   don't I mean you can go to store and

01:05:00   that's an application and whatnot but

01:05:02   it's it's it's always felt in beautiful

01:05:05   to me but technology wise and i'm going

01:05:07   to get and now who's gonna yell at me

01:05:09   about this its indicated they didn't

01:05:11   haven't been leaning forward in terms of

01:05:15   in terms of the technology right

01:05:17   it'sit's a static it's not a static site

01:05:19   but it is a static site and it doesn't

01:05:21   surprise me and I know people are gonna

01:05:23   yell at me about that i would expect it

01:05:24   at some point here but then thinking

01:05:27   about Apple that you have to wonder it's

01:05:29   like there's probably some reason they

01:05:30   haven't done it like is it you know

01:05:32   because web fonts are big and be a huge

01:05:34   load up or whatever but there doesn't

01:05:37   i'm not surprised not like I'm sitting

01:05:39   at home i got haven't done well the

01:05:41   things I can think of our that a clearly

01:05:45   the everybody knows the homepage of any

01:05:47   site is the most right and i think the

01:05:49   homepage the actual apple.com homepage

01:05:52   is way more important Apple than it is

01:05:55   the most becomes hold it in the way that

01:05:57   the first impression of anything is more

01:06:00   important with apple like their stores

01:06:03   are nice and if you just like going to

01:06:05   the store and crawl into the corner and

01:06:08   just examine where the floor hits the

01:06:10   wall and look for dust bunnies you're

01:06:13   not going to find it at all around you

01:06:14   and the actual joint where the floor

01:06:18   hits the wall is just looks as new you

01:06:20   know maybe it's a ten-year-old apple

01:06:22   store in your local mall and still looks

01:06:24   brand new

01:06:25   but the thing that's most important

01:06:26   isn't the detail it's not like the

01:06:28   actual wow if you actually look at the

01:06:30   corner of this table where all the

01:06:32   iphones are setup it still looks like a

01:06:34   brand-new table right right on the

01:06:36   corner

01:06:37   things went off no scuff marks blah blah

01:06:38   but the thing is most important is what

01:06:41   it looks like from the outside when you

01:06:42   first step in right right is that first

01:06:45   impression and everything goes from

01:06:46   there

01:06:47   well it seems true for the homepage of a

01:06:48   website right and the homepage of apple

01:06:53   com it's all images there is no text

01:06:55   because they're actually it all is

01:06:57   it's not rendered in web our web browser

01:07:00   fonts you know like right

01:07:02   luton it's all rendered in the Apple

01:07:04   corporate myriad typeface but the way

01:07:08   they do it is by everything's an image

01:07:09   right i was just i was looking at the

01:07:12   present were talking I was doing and

01:07:13   that's one of the reasons that they

01:07:14   don't have to go and find all of these

01:07:16   headlines are actually images right and

01:07:19   it's already notified and maybe you know

01:07:21   you can

01:07:22   there's a WEC session where they explain

01:07:24   how they do it their way of serving

01:07:27   retina images to retina you know quality

01:07:30   displays and I sorry to interrupt your

01:07:33   the Scorsese iphone ad what did you do

01:07:37   you love it too jaded I know your fan so

01:07:39   I love scorsese and i'm not a hater on

01:07:42   these celebrity serie ads but i do feel

01:07:45   though here's the thing about the

01:07:47   Scorsese one that I feel I they're all

01:07:50   little cheating because they all make

01:07:52   Siri look a lot faster than Cirie

01:07:54   actually is sure in the thing with

01:07:56   Scorsese is Scorsese infamously is a

01:08:00   super fast talker and thinker like he's

01:08:05   a mile-a-minute talker that's that's his

01:08:07   thing and that's Martin Scorsese and in

01:08:11   addition to the fact that even if he

01:08:14   were like it in like the the like a

01:08:19   direct ethernet connection to the

01:08:21   backbone of the best backbone of the

01:08:24   ethernet in urbana illinois is not going

01:08:27   to get this sort of response time from

01:08:29   Cirie he's not in midtown Manhattan and

01:08:32   you go to New York and not home

01:08:35   I don't care if you're on verizon on

01:08:37   curvy on AT&T I don't care what you're

01:08:39   on the 3g service in midtown Manhattan

01:08:42   it mid tahay is sketchy right like it it

01:08:46   couldn't be more unrealistic in terms of

01:08:49   what

01:08:50   it's actually like interacting with

01:08:51   Syria that's the thing that gets me

01:08:52   about the right to good and I thought it

01:08:55   was not as clever as one it's a good ad

01:08:57   in terms of what Siri could be or will

01:08:59   be eventually but in terms of like what

01:09:02   you would actually get from Cirie while

01:09:04   you're in a cab and mid-cap it's like

01:09:06   that commercial in real time would take

01:09:09   90 minutes

01:09:10   yeah it would be like a feature film and

01:09:14   also the fast-talking beginning those

01:09:16   you be getting those a I'm sorry Martin

01:09:18   I don't you mean Bible it right because

01:09:20   he's talking so that has right I I

01:09:23   thought it was kinda interesting that

01:09:24   they gave a white iphone because i think

01:09:26   it's very clear that's because the cab

01:09:28   is a dark atmosphere and sort of wearing

01:09:29   a dark thing and it actually i think is

01:09:31   I think Martin Scorsese if he has an

01:09:34   iphone really carries one he's a black

01:09:35   iphone guy totally agree with that are

01:09:37   you black or white right now all you

01:09:39   know

01:09:40   come on oh yeah I can't believe you had

01:09:42   to ask what do you do i do you i'm not

01:09:46   sure about you you might be a white

01:09:48   iphone i am a white iphone and i think i

01:09:50   got inception down that too because i

01:09:53   had black twice and and I'm like a new

01:09:57   phone i'm gonna get the white but then i

01:09:59   went back and i think these ads are all

01:10:01   changed now after after they announced

01:10:03   the most recent iphone and i went back

01:10:04   and look at the advertising and i'm

01:10:06   pretty sure that the the White was more

01:10:10   prominently featured and now i'm just

01:10:12   sitting there weathering I've gotten

01:10:14   figure out whether i got manipulate or

01:10:15   not into getting a welcoming I just

01:10:17   wanted a change of scene in the white is

01:10:18   beautiful by the way but I I'm feeling

01:10:22   manipulated because i think they really

01:10:23   pushed it and i think that is one of the

01:10:25   reasons that I actually decided to make

01:10:27   the switch on the most recent i'm going

01:10:29   back to black its that's that that's the

01:10:31   only one for me this is an old story and

01:10:34   i'm sure i've told this before like that

01:10:36   long ago episode of the talk show i've

01:10:37   probably told it to you personally

01:10:40   because you hung out with me and my wife

01:10:42   if it's it's a good story is that when

01:10:45   the iphone 4 1st was announced

01:10:49   I and my wife and I were both want

01:10:53   hey I get one every year she was

01:10:54   definitely on pace for a new phone and I

01:10:57   said you should get the white one

01:10:59   I've seen it because i was at the press

01:11:01   event where r WC where they announced it

01:11:03   and I say

01:11:03   it's beautiful I don't want it I'm gonna

01:11:06   get black I get black everything I just

01:11:08   if anything is available in black I just

01:11:09   get in black anything cars bones if

01:11:13   there's a black option i just get black

01:11:15   that went to the right and i said but

01:11:19   trust me this thing is beautiful the

01:11:20   white one is great and then we're gonna

01:11:22   solve this problem we've had since the

01:11:24   iphone came out where there's two phones

01:11:26   on the kitchen counter right in their

01:11:28   identical and we don't you gotta turn it

01:11:30   on to see you know see whose is whose

01:11:32   and you're never going to accidentally

01:11:34   pick up the you know each other's phone

01:11:35   and she said okay I'm in and then of

01:11:39   course the white iphone infamously took

01:11:42   apple like 10 months learn and by the

01:11:46   time it actually came out you know

01:11:49   there's the rumor was that there was a

01:11:51   new iphone coming and that actually

01:11:53   turned out to be false because it didn't

01:11:55   come out the iphone 4s didn't come out

01:11:57   until october but it was a real source

01:11:59   of of marital stress in in my life

01:12:02   because I got blamed for this

01:12:05   I'm sure she didn't bring that up and

01:12:06   doesn't continue to bring that up like

01:12:08   every week hour or so she ended up not

01:12:12   getting a new phone until the forest

01:12:13   came out but she did get white and in

01:12:15   fact though she does love it and loves

01:12:17   the white but still I I get blamed for

01:12:20   like the lost 18 months of her having

01:12:22   the janky old 3gs on but yeah it's I

01:12:29   think the weight is great but that it's

01:12:32   funny it is funny too though to think

01:12:33   that it then it's like one of those

01:12:35   things are like at the time it was

01:12:37   amusing and we thought about it and then

01:12:39   we've sort of like forgotten it but like

01:12:41   mighty Apple couldn't ship a white

01:12:44   iphone yeah i still think that's one of

01:12:47   the most interesting things to happen in

01:12:49   the last 10 years like this company that

01:12:50   we sort of think can do no wrong and as

01:12:54   you know infinitely powerful couldn't

01:12:59   ship a white iphone that they were

01:13:01   apparently convinced that they could you

01:13:03   know we're ready to ship two weeks later

01:13:06   in june to 2010 I wasn't there when I

01:13:09   was happening but um I mean it feels

01:13:11   right to me it feels like I mean they

01:13:12   remember the rumors they're rumors were

01:13:14   that when we got hot like you start to

01:13:16   see discoloration

01:13:17   this amazing to me that that feels very

01:13:19   apple right they went to the shaking big

01:13:21   period or whatever that like last month

01:13:23   or so of like a qualification and they

01:13:25   found that there was a slight

01:13:26   discoloration or whatever it was

01:13:29   this is actually i think is very apple

01:13:31   which is like they're like you know we

01:13:32   don't ship crap right and right after

01:13:34   three months if you're seeing a little

01:13:36   discoloration where it's hot it's like

01:13:38   that is in every single phone is going

01:13:41   to be returned at that point so this is

01:13:42   like something like that the other the

01:13:44   other room and maybe it was a little bit

01:13:45   of column a and a little bit of column

01:13:47   be

01:13:48   I thought the other rumor was that there

01:13:52   was like light leakage that the bike

01:13:54   ride the camera right so like photos

01:13:57   wouldn't look as good because there was

01:13:59   light coming in to hit the center that

01:14:01   wasn't coming in from the lens or

01:14:02   something like that

01:14:03   yeah but whatever you know so my out my

01:14:05   guess is maybe it was like all of the

01:14:07   above right was discoloration and there

01:14:09   was some light leakage and that day

01:14:10   because there's a I like if you look at

01:14:14   the schematics the white one has I get

01:14:16   different grill around on camera but you

01:14:20   I'm sure you notice this because you've

01:14:21   got friends you know you you did work

01:14:23   there you've got friends who are there

01:14:25   is that the one of the most interesting

01:14:26   things is wet and I noticed this when I

01:14:28   was there for the antenna gate event

01:14:33   when they had the the hey hey you better

01:14:36   come out here we gotta deal with this

01:14:37   antennagate situation and that was a

01:14:39   special press event on campus had been

01:14:41   while so it was like august i think 2010

01:14:46   like two months after the iphone for it

01:14:49   shipped and two months where the only

01:14:51   one that ship was the black one and you

01:14:53   go to the campus and you see employees

01:14:55   walking around and half of them had

01:14:56   white iphone right and it was like

01:14:59   you're in this bizarro universe on

01:15:01   campus where the white iphone existed

01:15:03   and it was like whoa

01:15:07   the only other place that I had seen was

01:15:11   on the the table where at wec where they

01:15:14   add the one set up for the press but you

01:15:16   went to the campus and employees had

01:15:18   them like this lala land where where's

01:15:20   you know stuff that isn't available to

01:15:23   the public people just walk around with

01:15:24   wonderland

01:15:26   on one of the things i speculated on in

01:15:28   my piece earlier this week on the retina

01:15:30   macbook pro is what font Apple might use

01:15:35   as the system fun for Mac os10 if they

01:15:38   switch from Lucinda lucida grande grande

01:15:41   grande Grande google could all grande'

01:15:44   lucida grande Grande i don't know i

01:15:48   immediately thought that I should ask

01:15:49   you since you're gonna shoot you in a

01:15:50   few of you feel for that even a opinion

01:15:53   on that you know I thought about it I

01:15:54   was thinking about last night that I

01:15:56   don't know what it is but the thing

01:15:58   about it is you know i think it's i

01:16:00   think it's going to be some vatika

01:16:01   variant but um and my opinion is it's

01:16:06   more the intent of what it's there it's

01:16:07   it needs to be very readable and just

01:16:09   very ignore aliff you will write it just

01:16:12   has to be really you don't want it you

01:16:14   don't want to see it right it has to be

01:16:15   something which there is an elegance to

01:16:17   it there is there is a pirate ability to

01:16:20   it has a lot of the things that

01:16:21   characteristic of Lucinda's but wait it

01:16:24   just it isn't zero flash right because

01:16:27   this is the this is the system phone

01:16:28   right it's going to be something which

01:16:30   it's just it's vanilla beautifully

01:16:33   vanilla

01:16:33   what do you think I my guess is it's

01:16:37   gonna be helped that they're going to

01:16:39   switch to help that ago and i do think i

01:16:41   actually do that i had this is like this

01:16:43   is an article that is in my drafts

01:16:45   folder i like and it's probably two

01:16:48   sentences and a bunch of gibberish words

01:16:50   but next thing about all is that I do

01:16:53   think i think that one of the most

01:16:54   interesting design decisions

01:16:56   Apple has ever made in 30 years of

01:17:00   corporate history is the choice of

01:17:03   helvetica as the system font for iOS

01:17:06   right because helvetica is sort of the

01:17:15   most obvious font that they could have

01:17:18   chosen right it is a great face it is

01:17:21   you know it's super famous it's maybe

01:17:23   you know I it's the font that actually

01:17:25   has a documentary named after it

01:17:27   it's a font that people who don't even

01:17:28   really think about fonts have at least

01:17:30   heard of even if they can't identify it

01:17:33   I'm but what sort of what makes

01:17:37   helvetica so famous is that

01:17:39   it is so neutral right right

01:17:44   internets it's almost the non fund like

01:17:48   I remember when I first got a mac

01:17:50   thinking and I didn't really even know

01:17:53   what its like before I really became

01:17:56   even informed about typography but I was

01:17:58   intrigued by the font menu and that i

01:18:01   could do is select all go to the font

01:18:03   menu and make what i just wrote look

01:18:06   different and I remember thinking that

01:18:10   are actually not even thinking that it

01:18:15   was sort of a of course it has to be

01:18:17   this way that of course in any word

01:18:20   processing document when you make

01:18:22   command n and make a new document and

01:18:25   just start typing on course it's going

01:18:27   to be 12-point helvetica right because

01:18:30   that's the font that you haven't chosen

01:18:33   a fund that's the okay you're just

01:18:36   starting and this is neutral and we're

01:18:38   not going to assume that this is

01:18:39   supposed to feel friendly we're not

01:18:41   going to assume it's supposed to feel

01:18:42   formal was conditional it's just the

01:18:46   words right and it's America nobody ever

01:18:49   says it's a great fun but nobody ever

01:18:50   says wow that is an interesting choice

01:18:53   for a font like you are a brilliant

01:18:57   designer for having chosen helvetica but

01:19:00   that's what they chose for iOS and you

01:19:03   know any other thing about choosing that

01:19:04   for iOS is that helvetica is you know

01:19:07   it's not free you know is I think

01:19:10   linotype owns the license to it but it's

01:19:13   certainly widely available on any other

01:19:15   company and in fact you can see there's

01:19:17   a whole bunch of android phones that

01:19:19   that it doesn't ship as part of the

01:19:21   default android distribution but the the

01:19:24   add-ons from companies like Samsung and

01:19:26   HTC inevitably use helvetica for like

01:19:30   the home screen widgets you know the

01:19:32   clock and the date and time and the

01:19:34   weather and stuff like that because you

01:19:37   know it's automatic everybody can have

01:19:39   access to America but it is i mean

01:19:41   that's the that's the point about a

01:19:43   really good face is I mean unless you're

01:19:45   doing something you know comics & Z and

01:19:47   then horrific like that

01:19:48   the point is it needs to kind of stay

01:19:49   out of the way and when I go look at the

01:19:51   web fonts on Iran's and repose right now

01:19:53   it's they still give me joy but at the

01:19:56   end of the day I want them to get out of

01:19:57   the way so that people can get to the

01:19:58   message you know so it's there's there's

01:20:00   that balance you want to you want to

01:20:02   strike of highly readable but you know

01:20:04   but also just get the hell out of the

01:20:06   way so i can get the words the knock

01:20:10   against helvetica is that or one of the

01:20:13   knocks against it especially for uses a

01:20:15   system font is that it's a font that not

01:20:20   only is it hard to distinguish certain

01:20:24   similar characters in some cases it's

01:20:27   actually like impossible without the cut

01:20:29   surrounding context and the best you

01:20:31   know famous example is capital I

01:20:34   lowercase L in the numeral one right now

01:20:39   the one in Helvetica is a little

01:20:41   different but like capital I in a

01:20:46   lowercase l the only difference between

01:20:48   them in America is that the capitalized

01:20:50   ever so slightly taller but they're just

01:20:52   straight bars with no Sarah for glyph

01:20:55   for anything at all and you know a lot

01:20:59   of people feel very strongly that like a

01:21:00   system font i should have some kind of

01:21:05   distinguishing characteristic for all of

01:21:07   those characters you know that the

01:21:08   elders should have a little bendy the

01:21:10   lowercase L should have a little bendy

01:21:11   thing at the bottom the upper case I

01:21:14   should have the bars the crossbar and

01:21:16   right and have erica has none of those

01:21:19   things but god I love helvetica I

01:21:24   wouldn't i wouldn't mind at all of the

01:21:26   Mac os10 switch to help erica can happen

01:21:29   in some point something I know what it

01:21:30   is but it's one of those things where

01:21:32   the retina and makes all the difference

01:21:34   in the world right there on pre retina

01:21:37   displays it's not that vehicle looks bad

01:21:39   but it doesn't look great

01:21:40   yeah right whereas on the retina display

01:21:42   it's like all yeah that's you know

01:21:44   that's the helvetica i love it's my

01:21:46   favorite thing to one of my favorite

01:21:48   things to do on the site when I landed

01:21:49   the the web fonts is to pinch and it

01:21:52   doesn't make them huge and make the

01:21:55   article huge we're going to see word by

01:21:56   word and justjust Chris

01:21:59   just gorgeous very satisfying

01:22:03   it's so different it's so different

01:22:06   yeah and you know and and for me you

01:22:09   know and it really is it's it's overdue

01:22:12   and I don't even have a good excuse for

01:22:14   why I haven't switched to some sort of

01:22:15   web monitoring fireball other than then

01:22:18   what's the word laziness

01:22:22   yeah but I you know the body fun during

01:22:27   fireballs vidhana at 11px and I chose

01:22:32   that I chose that fun and and size in

01:22:36   2002 at a time when the overwhelming

01:22:41   majority of daring fireball readers not

01:22:44   just on windows which at the time was

01:22:46   actually a majority of readers but even

01:22:49   on Mac we're using mac OS 9 not Mac os10

01:22:52   on a mac OS 9 it wasn't anti-aliased

01:22:56   right it was a pure pixel fund like I

01:23:00   picked that font and size at a time when

01:23:03   anti-aliasing wasn't even enabled except

01:23:06   for the sliver of readers who were

01:23:09   already on Mac os10 right which was

01:23:12   varied 2002 was actually really really

01:23:14   small number of people

01:23:16   ah and it just doesn't hold up right

01:23:21   like I link to the egg have you noticed

01:23:23   you go to ikea your ikea guy you know

01:23:25   everything I know can't gather but you

01:23:27   know that you know the brand right

01:23:29   hell yeah and you know that they

01:23:31   switched from you like their own custom

01:23:33   version of future great fund

01:23:36   ah

01:23:38   to verdanna like their catalogs and

01:23:40   their signage are all printed in for

01:23:42   Donna you know this i'm looking at it

01:23:44   right now

01:23:45   yeah and it really looks horrible yeah I

01:23:48   print resolution I and everybody nobody

01:23:52   nobody has a good explanation for why

01:23:54   they did this is it there's a

01:23:57   convenience store / gas station chain in

01:24:02   the greater philadelphia area called

01:24:04   wall just wanted wha can spot me wa wa

01:24:09   ok I everybody listening most people

01:24:12   listening are exactly like you think 11

01:24:15   and then the Philadelphia area listeners

01:24:17   are all like I can't believe he had to

01:24:20   spell you know it's a 7-eleven is type

01:24:24   thing but with the like you know just

01:24:27   nicer it's a lot nicer go to 7-eleven on

01:24:30   but they use i often gas up the car at a

01:24:34   wawa they used for Donna like on their

01:24:38   print stuff you know how like when you

01:24:39   get when you're buying gas there's

01:24:40   always an ad for something right

01:24:42   sandwiches they're selling inside or the

01:24:44   slurpees or whatever the hell they got a

01:24:47   use for Donna and every time I pump gas

01:24:49   there I noticed when they use for Donna

01:24:51   and I think my god does that look like

01:24:53   shit at print resolution right that's

01:24:56   what verdanna looks like to me on a

01:24:57   retina display right just looks like

01:24:59   you've you've chosen a font that is

01:25:02   never meant to be output at this

01:25:04   resolution you know now you're using you

01:25:08   ever see anybody who uses Chicago has a

01:25:11   print font know the the I just see that

01:25:16   every once in a while you'll see like a

01:25:17   store something that is like a sign and

01:25:19   they picked Chicago and it looks so bad

01:25:21   as a print fun

01:25:23   ya know I haven't point whenever I'm

01:25:25   walking around New York City it's it's

01:25:27   the notice lots of people like to his

01:25:29   Instagram it's just that the font

01:25:31   travesties that are out there it's it's

01:25:34   shocking to me or as bad as trebuchet

01:25:38   looks on the web right when somebody

01:25:40   princess sign using trebuchet

01:25:42   oh god it just kills I get diets like

01:25:44   needles in my eyes

01:25:45   bad fonts that's the thing about the

01:25:49   retina display is good fonts looks so

01:25:51   good and bad fonts looks so much worse

01:25:54   yeah you look worse than they do before

01:25:57   reading this place on Crede right I've

01:26:00   got one more thing

01:26:01   ok go and that's one more thing that's a

01:26:05   piece that you wrote on random pose

01:26:07   right just a few weeks ago

01:26:09   mm you wrote about Apple's thing where

01:26:14   exactly is it that's my question for you

01:26:16   is it is the one more thing from a

01:26:19   keynote is it an apple thing or was it a

01:26:22   Steve thing

01:26:23   oh you know i did research into the

01:26:26   piece and i found that let the YouTube

01:26:28   video that someone just amalgamated

01:26:29   altogether and i will put that i will

01:26:31   put that YouTube in the show notes right

01:26:34   everybody to enjoy and just gets its

01:26:36   it's an amalgamation of Steve Jobs one

01:26:38   more things from keynotes were asked 15

01:26:41   years but the question that you asked

01:26:43   that I don't know the answer to is did

01:26:45   anyone say it in a keynote before that

01:26:47   and I don't know you certainly shaped it

01:26:49   though right i mean if you go look at

01:26:51   the video you can see you can see him go

01:26:55   from like it's this it's this total

01:26:57   moment of its it's the showmanship of

01:27:00   him going from like oh it's like walking

01:27:03   off stage right you know and he's like

01:27:06   we're all done and he turns around and

01:27:08   goes oh wait a minute there's one more

01:27:10   thing and that's how it really started

01:27:11   and you've seen this too but it really

01:27:13   started with him like literally trying

01:27:15   to convince us that he almost forgot to

01:27:17   introduce this world-changing thing and

01:27:19   it over the years it's sort of refined

01:27:21   into sort of a a more it wasn't that big

01:27:25   of a surprise it was just those three

01:27:27   words that they actually that they

01:27:29   actually did you always were wondering

01:27:31   right you're always wondering whether

01:27:33   that thing was going to happen at the at

01:27:36   the end of the of the key nobody and it

01:27:38   didn't always and when it did it was

01:27:39   usually something that was it was

01:27:40   compelling whether the airport express

01:27:42   or forget all the things were there but

01:27:44   the question that i have is i think it

01:27:46   is a Steve thing is my opinion I don't

01:27:48   think I think they will never do it

01:27:50   again because it is his thing and if

01:27:54   they do that would be that's

01:27:56   that is made significant milestone in

01:27:59   the post Steve world if they actually go

01:28:01   say one more thing because it is him

01:28:03   it's really it is literally a sign of

01:28:05   his love his style and then the showman

01:28:07   that he was and they did and then you

01:28:14   know it was certain when he died it was

01:28:16   certainly an unusual situation and

01:28:18   running that unusual disables a unique

01:28:20   situation for apple in its corporate

01:28:22   history that there's nobody else whose

01:28:25   death going forward and make their

01:28:27   company could still be around and still

01:28:29   thriving a hundred years from now

01:28:31   absolutely and they're still never going

01:28:33   to be anything like the death of Steve

01:28:35   Jobs in terms of what it means to the

01:28:37   company and and they had to do something

01:28:39   and so they did something unusual and

01:28:41   they had you know they had that picture

01:28:42   of Bryon sort of tribute on the homepage

01:28:44   of apple com for a long time after and

01:28:47   I'd right I months i think it was months

01:28:51   yeah I was it was really a long time I

01:28:53   mean some you know he died in october is

01:28:58   a talker i actually don't remember

01:28:59   exactly what I think was october and I i

01:29:02   think they had that up on the homepage

01:29:03   through the holidays

01:29:04   yeah I mean and you know that's it

01:29:07   particularly big deal because the Apple

01:29:09   as big as it is is still

01:29:11   disproportionately a holiday quarter

01:29:14   company still always did I don't think

01:29:17   it's ever going to not be their biggest

01:29:19   quarter of the year

01:29:20   absolutely and they spent the whole

01:29:21   quarter with their homepage being a

01:29:23   tribute to the you know deceased founder

01:29:26   Steve Jobs ah and then you know now it's

01:29:32   it's you know once that period was over

01:29:35   now they just don't talk about Steve

01:29:38   right right but I feel like when they

01:29:41   have the events it's impossible for

01:29:45   anybody and I feel like years from now

01:29:47   five years from now when they're

01:29:48   introducing you know the the iphone 12

01:29:52   or the 11s I don't know what that are

01:29:58   going to call it but whatever whatever

01:30:00   they're going to call it

01:30:01   we're still going to think with the

01:30:02   beginning of the event when the music

01:30:05   stops where and somebody walks out

01:30:09   you're going to think

01:30:10   god I wish that were Steve

01:30:11   absolutely.aah and that's a tough thing

01:30:15   for you know for Tim Cook and Phil

01:30:17   Schiller and everybody was gonna do it

01:30:19   is that it's never nobody is ever going

01:30:21   to stop missing Steve at those events

01:30:23   because that's when we had any kind of

01:30:28   you know sauce with jobs right that's

01:30:31   when his presence was palpable is on the

01:30:33   events and i think i'm with you that I I

01:30:38   feel like it would be nice and maybe

01:30:39   they could do it you know and if anybody

01:30:41   can pull it off I think it's Schiller

01:30:43   sure but if they ever did the first time

01:30:48   they did that one more thing right in an

01:30:53   event going forward without him it it's

01:30:58   almost as though it's almost as as

01:31:02   explicit not even implicit but explicit

01:31:07   a shout out to steve jobs as if they

01:31:11   actually just said hey and we'd like to

01:31:13   just throw up a you know just you know

01:31:15   it's been a year since he died here's a

01:31:17   picture of them would just like to say a

01:31:19   few words about Steve Jobs is working on

01:31:21   for a year which are not going to do

01:31:23   that what if they do one more thing I it

01:31:26   would be if you're going to spend that

01:31:29   let's let's play like if you can

01:31:30   actually because there would be a cost

01:31:32   to doing that because i think they do

01:31:34   you think it is his his line but if you

01:31:36   were going to do that the window but I

01:31:38   would do if I was which are i'm not but

01:31:41   when you would have to be something of a

01:31:43   magnitude that would be significant but

01:31:46   it also have to be this is something

01:31:48   that Steve would have wanted right if

01:31:50   it's because otherwise it's not

01:31:51   something amazing if it's not something

01:31:53   huge then you're wasting that right

01:31:56   it has it would have to be a happy call

01:31:58   out to him is this what i would but i

01:32:00   would think it's like it happened it's

01:32:02   this feels like a this is a thing that

01:32:04   Steve would want to build right because

01:32:06   like you and answered exactly like you

01:32:08   mentioned and i think i've talked about

01:32:09   this before that it was the fact that it

01:32:14   was way more powerful because it wasn't

01:32:16   every event right or even predictable

01:32:19   right you know and i think what I've

01:32:22   mentioned before is that it gets into

01:32:23   like behavioral psychology where it's

01:32:26   this a random reinforcement schedule is

01:32:30   actually the most powerful way right to

01:32:33   get somebody hooked on something and I

01:32:35   know I've mentioned this before but that

01:32:37   you know like if you have I think it's

01:32:38   called a skinner box where you you put a

01:32:41   rat in a box and give the rat a little

01:32:43   button to push to get food and if if

01:32:46   it's like you set up a schedule where

01:32:48   every other time every odd time that it

01:32:52   hits the button a piece of food comes

01:32:54   out

01:32:54   ah and then you stop and you just unhook

01:32:58   the button and then you matter how many

01:33:00   times the rat push the button no food

01:33:02   comes out the rat will give up after

01:33:04   like I don't know

01:33:05   567 pushes right and and with different

01:33:07   schedules the rat will keep pushing the

01:33:09   dead button after you unhook it longer

01:33:11   and longer but if the original schedule

01:33:13   is random the rat will never stop

01:33:17   pushing the button

01:33:18   this is true I swear on my bulimia is

01:33:21   one of the most interesting things about

01:33:23   psychology and I feel like that's the

01:33:24   one more thing right for us is that

01:33:27   three years could go by right now and

01:33:32   its dominance 2015 and Michael op is

01:33:35   back on the talk show with with john

01:33:37   gruber and we're going to talk about it

01:33:41   hasn't been one more thing since Steve

01:33:43   Jobs alive right and you'll come on and

01:33:45   we'll talk about it when someone maybe

01:33:46   they'll do it next time right and will

01:33:50   be kind of hope that's when I feel like

01:33:51   that's the thing that makes it so

01:33:53   interesting and so it's one of those you

01:33:56   you writing about that made me so

01:33:58   jealous because I was a god damn i wish

01:34:00   i wrote that was really one of those

01:34:02   like i really wish i had written that

01:34:04   piece because it really kind of gets to

01:34:06   the heart of what makes apple such an

01:34:08   interesting company is that you think

01:34:10   about and you know that they think about

01:34:11   it

01:34:12   right right and they wouldn't use it

01:34:14   like they would not take if they do it

01:34:16   they wouldn't take it lightly and it's

01:34:18   it's it's a little bit off topic but

01:34:20   it's like it's one of the things i'm

01:34:21   reading all the press about the samsung

01:34:22   cases i know i know about there anymore

01:34:26   and I don't you know and wasn't involved

01:34:27   in these conversations but you gotta

01:34:29   know one of the things they said hey

01:34:31   listen we're gonna go we're going to go

01:34:32   to town on this case against Samsung

01:34:35   is we're gonna have to we're gonna have

01:34:37   to open the kimono a little bit and show

01:34:39   them a little bit secret sauce and I

01:34:41   don't know how you quantify that I don't

01:34:42   know how you measure that but it's it's

01:34:45   you're seeing prototypes you're seeing a

01:34:47   little bit more how Apple works and they

01:34:49   don't want that at all

01:34:50   they don't want of course they don't

01:34:51   want that at all and that's that's the

01:34:53   thing i think i think it pains him to

01:34:54   have to like say well we have this room

01:34:57   and this room that's everyone's always

01:34:59   known about was never been actually

01:35:00   confirmed when sits around a table and

01:35:02   they made whole prototypes and they

01:35:04   don't want to share that at all because

01:35:05   it's a costume it's it's it's it's the

01:35:08   mystique is a little bit less mysterious

01:35:10   and that's a good line I don't know but

01:35:12   yes the thing they're wrestling with all

01:35:15   right like you know it is i think it is

01:35:19   very much analogous to the the adage

01:35:21   that a magician never explains the loser

01:35:24   ex work around that you don't talk about

01:35:27   it that it does take something away but

01:35:29   I do think exactly agree with you

01:35:31   completely though that it's absolutely

01:35:36   they are they were completely aware of

01:35:38   that going into this lawsuit where they

01:35:41   feel that it's worth it

01:35:42   it is absolutely absolutely not the case

01:35:44   that they just blindly in anger wanted

01:35:48   to sue samsung and then all of a sudden

01:35:50   a year later like oh shit we're screwed

01:35:52   we've got to reveal these prototypes

01:35:54   right like they knew that all of that by

01:35:57   completing their event and completely

01:35:59   see that as being worth the risk for you

01:36:01   know whatever competitive reasons i

01:36:05   could see it then the thing that gets me

01:36:06   think about the one more thing too is

01:36:08   that this event that is rumored for next

01:36:12   month right because the idea the rumors

01:36:16   are so strong that it's going to have

01:36:17   both an iphone and a new ipad this

01:36:21   smaller ipad thing makes me think that

01:36:24   one or the other of them like maybe the

01:36:26   event is about the iphone and the ipad

01:36:27   is one more thing and that you're like

01:36:30   getting towards the end it seems like

01:36:31   the wrapping up and then I feel like I

01:36:33   can just imagine myself in the audience

01:36:35   taking my notes thinking oh shit i've

01:36:38   written Hollis shit wondering more about

01:36:40   this iPad Mini or error nano whatever

01:36:43   they're going to call it and they are

01:36:45   not going to announce it and you know

01:36:47   there's one

01:36:48   for that site you know grouper was wrong

01:36:50   right and I start getting that flop

01:36:53   sweat of ocean I've got a right and I

01:36:55   was wrong article and then one more

01:36:58   thing right and i can imagine if i can

01:37:01   imagine being there in the audience

01:37:03   doing it and I can also imagine being at

01:37:06   home following along on all the sites

01:37:08   that live longer and stuff and having

01:37:10   that same feeling like oh man everybody

01:37:12   was wrong with the ipad mini and then

01:37:14   all the sudden there's Dan more in on

01:37:16   Mac worldcom saying one more thing

01:37:19   schiller one more thing I'm gonna go

01:37:23   with no I think it's his I mean I've

01:37:25   been wrong many times I don't have a tag

01:37:27   one I do want to go on the record on the

01:37:30   name if there is another ipad coming out

01:37:34   I you seem you're saying many and air I

01:37:36   feel like there's there's exclusive

01:37:38   names relative to the platforms and i

01:37:40   think many and air are all macbook and I

01:37:43   think blurring that over from that over

01:37:45   to the ipad isn't gonna happen so no I

01:37:48   don't love the name if there is one but

01:37:51   that feels more like that is the realm

01:37:53   of more of the the portable devices not

01:37:55   portable but the you know i'm talking

01:37:56   about the iOS devices so that's going on

01:37:59   the record there all right you're gonna

01:38:01   record that the reason I don't think

01:38:02   they'll use nano is that nano to me and

01:38:05   his boys small smallness yeah and I

01:38:08   don't think smallness is the is where

01:38:11   they're going I think it's a in this and

01:38:13   lightness i would go i agree i would go

01:38:18   with new word before air or many ok

01:38:23   alright one more thing just before we go

01:38:26   yeah if they do if Apple does ever do

01:38:29   whether it's next month whether it's a

01:38:31   year from now whether it's three years

01:38:32   from now if they ever do another one

01:38:35   more thing in a presentation who who

01:38:38   does it and I think it's you that I

01:38:42   think it's a binary choice i think it's

01:38:43   either Schiller or to Tim Cook I think

01:38:47   it's got item with you on the shoulder I

01:38:50   think Schiller I think she'll be just

01:38:52   watching Schilling started so

01:38:54   uncomfortable years ago he was sort of

01:38:56   the court jester type and he is no

01:38:58   longer that at all obviously he's thank

01:39:01   you so much better

01:39:01   speaking of much better presenter that

01:39:03   he was 5 10 years ago but and he may be

01:39:07   able to do it with more Flair but it's

01:39:09   the CEO right i think i think you're

01:39:12   going to do it it's got to be Tim Cook

01:39:14   and it and again i don't think that they

01:39:16   do it because i think it is a Steve

01:39:18   thing but in the CEO has to announce it

01:39:20   even though tim is Tim doing products i

01:39:23   can't even down right now

01:39:24   well he hasn't he to my knowledge he is

01:39:27   not done a product he does he sort of

01:39:29   talks about the company at the beginning

01:39:31   and introduce the event and he does the

01:39:33   wrap up at the end but he hasn't done a

01:39:36   product right i would go with Tim I

01:39:39   think I think shoulder are

01:39:40   constitutionally could totally do it but

01:39:43   again if you're gonna do this if you

01:39:44   believe my theory that it's going to be

01:39:46   and if they're good at it that's going

01:39:48   to be they're gonna spend it in a very

01:39:50   careful way and it's something that

01:39:52   comes from Tim alright people always say

01:39:55   I should have people on the show who

01:39:57   disagree with rather than directly i'm

01:39:59   going to disagree i'm going to say that

01:40:01   if they ever do it it's going to be sure

01:40:03   not cook and the reason that hook is the

01:40:10   one who has to sort of tow this line of

01:40:16   being the guy in charge i'm now the head

01:40:19   motherfucker in charge but I'm not

01:40:21   trying to be steve jobs right that's a

01:40:25   very strange and difficult and totally

01:40:30   do not want to be that in that man shoes

01:40:33   sure line to hugh and i feel that him

01:40:36   doing one more thing would come across

01:40:39   as I think i'm steve jobs now whereas

01:40:43   Schiller could pull it off and make it

01:40:45   seem like look Steve always did this but

01:40:47   it's an apple thing nasty thing but then

01:40:49   it's smaller right then it's nothing not

01:40:52   the chiller is not amazing and great i

01:40:54   agree because it's coming out of

01:40:55   somebody who's not the CEO exactly right

01:40:57   again i think that i think we can

01:40:59   disagree but I think that I my god as

01:41:01   they just don't do it again there's a

01:41:03   certain i think there are certain things

01:41:04   set of things that we could we could

01:41:06   debate on what this list is that are

01:41:08   sacred and no longer there

01:41:10   one of them being steve jobs but it

01:41:11   the other things are associated with him

01:41:13   that feels like one of them right it

01:41:15   feels like part of his show

01:41:16   I mean as things were as things were as

01:41:19   he was getting worse you could see it in

01:41:22   the present you can see used to be just

01:41:23   a Steve Jobs shown there was

01:41:24   occasionally someone from Sony up there

01:41:27   just embarrassing all of us but they

01:41:28   started to kind of build out the crew

01:41:30   and no force dollars they're more and

01:41:32   there's more folks it started getting to

01:41:34   that world of of of the sort of the cast

01:41:36   of characters as opposed to just him

01:41:38   um that's the currents in the current

01:41:40   status quo but it's a to me it's just

01:41:42   it's that's that's his and again if

01:41:45   they're gonna spend it better be

01:41:46   something big

01:41:48   totally agree Michael op thank you for

01:41:51   being here

01:41:51   I want to like want to thank our

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01:42:16   for four dollars you can support the

01:42:19   talk show by mine both of these apps in

01:42:21   the App Store I best thing you can do if

01:42:24   you ever want to support the talk shows

01:42:25   just go buy these two apps and they're

01:42:27   great apps 11 Ulis and auto delight