The Talk Show

14: You’re Not Gonna Name Him Fuzzbutt, with Craig Hockenberry


00:00:00   I've got two things that I'm obsessed

00:00:01   with this week i'm obsessed with with

00:00:03   twitter and what they're doing with

00:00:04   their api and and I remain obsessed with

00:00:08   the retina macbook pro yeah what it

00:00:12   means for software and I've

00:00:13   coincidentally been working on both of

00:00:15   those things you're a perfect guest I

00:00:18   Craig Hockenberry for for this week's

00:00:20   show

00:00:20   you've got twitterrific know the twitter

00:00:24   client for every single platform that

00:00:26   comes from apple and you're working on a

00:00:29   upgrade to xscope which is how you how

00:00:35   would you pitch xscope and not uh it's a

00:00:38   tool for developers and designers to

00:00:41   make sure everything that they see

00:00:42   on-screen is what they expect its let

00:00:45   you test some sample i use the losing

00:00:50   ground loop is what I use all the time I

00:00:51   know there's other tools rulers you can

00:00:53   snap things to guide you can make things

00:00:55   exactly you know you'd but the loop is

00:00:57   what I mean that's like a magnifying

00:00:58   glass

00:00:59   yeah it is that the loop is is probably

00:01:01   one of my most used tools as well

00:01:03   because you know the design or something

00:01:05   is your comp a photo composition or

00:01:08   something like that and you know you

00:01:09   gotta make sure that this button is

00:01:11   really you know five pixels over from

00:01:13   this line and and that kind of thing

00:01:16   what you want to talk about first

00:01:17   probably best to talk about Twitter ok

00:01:22   that's the thing that the the most

00:01:24   people are concerned about these days

00:01:27   and you you've had a lot to say and I

00:01:30   know like and I I thought it was notable

00:01:32   because he called it out large our

00:01:33   friend Lex Friedman over at macworld had

00:01:36   an article where you kind of went around

00:01:38   and talked to several twitter client

00:01:41   developers but then he called out in

00:01:44   particular upfront and i thought was

00:01:47   notable was that he said a number of

00:01:49   twitter client developers simply did not

00:01:51   want to speak on the record because they

00:01:53   feel relations are so frayed between

00:01:56   client developers and Twitter itself

00:01:58   that they just don't even want it

00:02:00   there's only one their name on anything

00:02:02   now you you did speak that right

00:02:04   yea though i was very carefully chosen

00:02:07   words right you know

00:02:09   I that the problem for for me and for

00:02:13   that the company is that we have a good

00:02:15   relationship with twitter over the years

00:02:17   right it's like that it's been a

00:02:19   symbiotic relationship you know we've

00:02:21   helped them you know in the very early

00:02:23   days you know things like coming up with

00:02:25   the bird logo right coming up with a

00:02:29   name tweet

00:02:30   I mean we have substantially contributed

00:02:33   to their ecosystem right and they give

00:02:36   us a platform to make a product which we

00:02:39   make money off of i would go further

00:02:41   than that too though and I mean this

00:02:43   sincerely not because you're hearing

00:02:45   blowing smoke up your butt but that I

00:02:47   really do feel though that with the

00:02:48   initial twitterrific for iphone you

00:02:53   really well actually i think it probably

00:02:56   goes back to the one for the mac

00:02:57   actually because I was the first version

00:02:59   of twitter if it was the mac only client

00:03:01   and and I i think that you really really

00:03:04   simplified and focused on what a minimal

00:03:10   incoming stream of information from

00:03:13   Twitter could be presented as right

00:03:15   right huh

00:03:16   they're in which i think was very

00:03:17   different than what you were getting at

00:03:19   the time from twitter.com on the web and

00:03:22   and like you said I definitely think

00:03:23   that that certainly for you but i would

00:03:25   say you guys are emblematic of the

00:03:28   client developer community as a whole

00:03:31   that it's been a symbiotic relationship

00:03:34   yeah yeah and you know I if the the API

00:03:39   guidelines that they announced the post

00:03:42   last week it everybody's going to be

00:03:46   fine in the short term right but the

00:03:49   tweet pot and I've talked to pod and

00:03:51   unity pots coming you know they're fine

00:03:54   we're fine

00:03:55   in the short term like this is the thing

00:03:58   that I pointed out the election sake

00:03:59   nobody needs to worry about their

00:04:02   favorite third-party twitter client for

00:04:04   now

00:04:05   key word there is for now I there they

00:04:08   built a fence around us right we can't

00:04:12   grow beyond a certain amount and

00:04:16   you know luckily that amount is is

00:04:18   fairly large right now and I think that

00:04:21   they were that they thought very long

00:04:25   and hard about how that fence should be

00:04:27   constructed but you know regardless

00:04:29   there's a fence there now it's a very

00:04:33   weird restriction and more i think about

00:04:35   the more weird i find that because I

00:04:39   think I can't think of any other

00:04:40   platform where the platform owner and

00:04:44   and again I don't want to be accused of

00:04:46   hypocrisy for saying that Twitter

00:04:48   shouldn't wield any control over their

00:04:50   thing yet I accept that Apple wield

00:04:52   significant control over the app store I

00:04:54   I don't think I'm being hypocritical

00:04:57   about this because I at least understand

00:04:59   apples motivations for the control that

00:05:01   they will I don't understand what

00:05:03   Twitter is trying to do here and with

00:05:04   the limit i guess on what I guess the

00:05:07   idea what the limit is if they put a

00:05:08   limit on it no single client could ever

00:05:11   grow so large that it would rival

00:05:13   Twitter itself

00:05:16   yeah that kept me is it's it's but the

00:05:19   the restrictions for based upon fear arm

00:05:23   they fear something becoming you know

00:05:27   right now that the third-party clients

00:05:28   are small small percentage of of twitter

00:05:31   right that the average person goes and

00:05:34   gets the the Twitter branded client

00:05:38   they're happy with it everything's great

00:05:41   or they use the website again that's you

00:05:44   know that's fine as far as we're

00:05:45   concerned you know it's only the the

00:05:47   power users and the you know people have

00:05:50   been using Twitter a long time that that

00:05:52   really even know that the third-party

00:05:54   clients exist and you know why they want

00:05:57   them armed but it's it's it's pretty

00:06:04   clear to me that that promoted tweets

00:06:07   are going to be a part of this you know

00:06:09   1.1 API right there are going to be ad

00:06:12   start showing up in the timelines and

00:06:15   I'm pretty

00:06:19   your Twitter's fear is that you know

00:06:22   that small percentage now could turn

00:06:24   into a pretty huge percentage if people

00:06:27   if they start getting aggressive with

00:06:28   the promoted tweets and people start

00:06:31   getting pissed off you know they're

00:06:32   gonna I don't want this crap you know

00:06:34   seeing you know I'm gonna go get a good

00:06:36   to get that

00:06:37   tweetbot or twitterrific I see my

00:06:40   thought on that is that I and this to me

00:06:42   would be a perfectly reasonable

00:06:43   restriction to me would be if they said

00:06:45   look we're going to have these promoted

00:06:46   tweets and you have to show them and so

00:06:50   even if your twitter client has like a

00:06:52   filter feature where you can put

00:06:53   keywords in that filter out tweets or

00:06:56   you can you know I i know some clients

00:06:58   have like a blackout button where you

00:07:00   can say God group is going on about a

00:07:02   Yankees game black amount for 12 hours

00:07:04   and then it doesn't show tweets from me

00:07:06   for 12 hours and then all of a sudden

00:07:08   you wake up in the morning and my tweets

00:07:09   are back you don't have to remember to

00:07:11   turn it off cool features like that very

00:07:12   useful very smart clever but i would

00:07:15   just say that the rule would be if it's

00:07:17   a Promoted Tweet if it tweet it comes in

00:07:19   with this Promoted Tweet metadata you

00:07:21   have to show it regardless of you know

00:07:23   filters or features or stuff like that

00:07:25   and I to me i know some people would

00:07:27   still complain about that because you

00:07:28   cannot please enter some people who

00:07:30   really wanted block ads the hell are

00:07:32   high water

00:07:33   yeah I team it would be but to me that

00:07:35   would be perfectly reasonable that

00:07:37   wasn't the problem then is how far do

00:07:39   you go with those you know you must do

00:07:41   this i mean what happened of cards come

00:07:43   out right and the cars are there are

00:07:45   there things with the the partners right

00:07:47   in the partners you know some companies

00:07:51   you know paid to have a card on Twitter

00:07:54   right they want you to see it right and

00:07:56   i remember that everything like that

00:07:58   it's like a crap you know I don't want

00:07:59   to add cards you know I don't really

00:08:01   care about that right well and that's

00:08:03   and that really gets to the heart of my

00:08:05   fear about the future twitter because I

00:08:07   one of the things I love about twitter

00:08:09   is because it's extinct and it forces

00:08:12   everybody to be 16 it it put it on the

00:08:14   way it always feels like at least a bit

00:08:16   of a chore to read my email and

00:08:19   yeah never feels like a chore to go

00:08:20   through my Twitter yeah you know and the

00:08:23   busier I am or the longer it's been

00:08:24   since I've checked maybe the faster i

00:08:26   scroll and more i'm screaming what i'm

00:08:27   at least looking at everything and

00:08:29   because everything is that that's what I

00:08:31   worry about cards ruling because a card

00:08:33   in there all of a sudden like one tweet

00:08:35   is the height of the screen

00:08:36   yeah I got the phone at least and ipod I

00:08:40   don't know what the interaction is going

00:08:42   to be there it just it's it's weird

00:08:47   because it its it's taking that small

00:08:51   efficient piece of communication and

00:08:55   blowing it up right right and blowing it

00:09:01   up has many different combinations right

00:09:03   making it bigger making it well and it's

00:09:07   making a very very a very decided

00:09:13   opinion about what the tweet should look

00:09:15   like

00:09:15   whereas I think that part of the reason

00:09:18   twitter has been such an innovative

00:09:20   playground for user interfaces is that

00:09:22   there it's really just been look it's a

00:09:26   hundred and forty characters of text and

00:09:28   a name yeah and-and-and if you want if

00:09:31   you want their the name's avatar you

00:09:34   know and yeah i do what you want with it

00:09:37   so like for example I mean all the

00:09:39   mobile clients aren't aware of when they

00:09:41   are aware of the URL for like like a

00:09:44   twitpic or any of these picture hosting

00:09:47   services in the mobile they don't show

00:09:49   the whole image by default because it

00:09:52   would be too big in the screen is so

00:09:53   small so they show a thumbnail and if

00:09:55   you want to see it you tap it and it's

00:09:58   another view like I I just think on a

00:10:01   mobile boy that's how card should work

00:10:03   is it should be something you you know

00:10:05   shouldn't be something you put in the

00:10:06   main timeline but I think that's what

00:10:08   they want I think i'm not even sure it

00:10:10   may be by the letter of the law that's

00:10:11   what they're already demanding well

00:10:13   that's that's that's the big question

00:10:14   right now is that the other the-- they

00:10:17   have that the guidelines right they've

00:10:19   published guidelines understand that

00:10:21   those are going to be requirements right

00:10:24   well there's good there's always going

00:10:25   to be some editing there right that they

00:10:27   that they've been pretty open thing you

00:10:30   know well okay the sum of the stuff is

00:10:32   we're still trying to figure it out or

00:10:35   yeah it wasn't worded quite right you

00:10:37   know or maybe this wording is oriented

00:10:39   towards people who are doing

00:10:40   no tweets and line on a website vs

00:10:43   people that are doing tweets and if a

00:10:45   native app that there's obviously gonna

00:10:49   be a lot of a work there on their end to

00:10:52   turn those guidelines into requirements

00:10:55   right and i think that a lot of that is

00:10:59   the lot of those requirements are going

00:11:00   to be about what they feel is important

00:11:03   in the timeline regardless of what

00:11:05   third-party clients thanks is important

00:11:07   to be in the timeline right with the

00:11:12   user limit and I think I mentioned this

00:11:13   last week with Michael lot but I just

00:11:15   keep thinking about is that it's such a

00:11:19   weird constraint to put on developers

00:11:21   and like i said i can't think of anybody

00:11:22   else who's done it and even Apple who I

00:11:25   think most people would hold up is the

00:11:26   company that's most willing to stress

00:11:31   its relationship with developers in the

00:11:33   name of maintaining its own control over

00:11:36   its platform doesn't place limits on how

00:11:40   many how successful you can be right and

00:11:43   that includes and you say well that's

00:11:45   because they're taking thirty percent

00:11:46   but that also includes free apps and

00:11:50   here's a to me a perfect example of that

00:11:52   is the amazon kindle app which is free

00:11:55   download so apple doesn't make any money

00:11:57   if anything Apple loses money because

00:11:59   they're paying the bandwidth for the

00:12:01   downloads of the candidate and the more

00:12:05   people who download that two iphones and

00:12:07   ipads the stronger the kindle rival to

00:12:11   Apple's own ibooks platform gets yet

00:12:15   there's no limit its not like well your

00:12:18   own you know you can you can have

00:12:19   500,000 downloads and then you've got to

00:12:21   come to us and we're going to talk and

00:12:23   it's you know if everybody that if every

00:12:25   single iphone user download the kindle

00:12:27   app that's ok alright but that's I think

00:12:30   that's one of the things that makes me

00:12:31   sad about that this new fence that we

00:12:35   were dealing with this that

00:12:37   it there's never going to be another

00:12:40   great third-party twitter app right to

00:12:44   horrific Tweety tweet bot that's it

00:12:47   you're done right there there's you know

00:12:50   some guy can sit down and say okay I'm

00:12:52   going to write this awesome twitter app

00:12:54   he's never gonna sell more than 200,000

00:12:56   copies of it right

00:12:58   that's the bottom line and that's what

00:13:01   Twitter wants and the economics of the

00:13:03   app store in the competitive situation

00:13:05   in terms of what you can get away with

00:13:06   pricing yeah rap at it's just not that

00:13:08   much money and nobody out areas going to

00:13:10   say well if you charge for bucks its

00:13:13   four hundred thousand dollars but the

00:13:15   bottom line is that four hundred

00:13:16   thousand dollars is not a lot of money

00:13:17   because as you are well aware and our

00:13:20   prime example of its even if you want

00:13:22   even if you can get it all in the year

00:13:24   if you could write the app and get honor

00:13:26   thousand users in a year which it

00:13:28   probably isn't gonna happen

00:13:29   it's an ongoing relationship as you

00:13:31   evolve with Twitter and keep the appt

00:13:33   going on you've been working on some

00:13:34   version of twitter if expense like

00:13:37   2006-7 i think was the first version but

00:13:42   yeah it's been a while so it's long

00:13:44   enough not to remember when you started

00:13:45   right so that HAP the cap x the pricing

00:13:50   of apps is you know even if you think

00:13:52   that a 400 500 thousand dollars a lot of

00:13:55   money it's really not an especially

00:13:56   since it's really really hard for one

00:13:58   guy to do it alone

00:13:59   so yeah fighting it you know for it for

00:14:02   top-shelf iOS app you spend a hundred

00:14:06   two hundred thousand dollars i mean

00:14:08   don't forget out with a 30-percent cut

00:14:10   right i mean it right it's get sliced up

00:14:13   very quickly

00:14:14   yeah is it that's why say there's no and

00:14:17   you're absolutely right about it being

00:14:19   the UI playground right we found it very

00:14:22   exciting to build what put our clients

00:14:25   in fact that the new version that we're

00:14:26   working on now it's got some really

00:14:27   great innovations in it you know things

00:14:31   that people are going to see and go over

00:14:33   with me to put that on our appt right

00:14:35   just like pull-to-refresh right right

00:14:38   that can lauren put that in and like Oh

00:14:40   started showing up everywhere now it's

00:14:43   in the OS

00:14:44   yeah it behaves a little bit differently

00:14:46   in the OS but that the concept and

00:14:49   everything is still there

00:14:51   and and it's it's a good idea right and

00:14:55   that would not have existed without with

00:14:57   but without sweetie i also think and and

00:15:00   again and this one may not be a pull to

00:15:03   refresh I really was like that lauren

00:15:06   lauren bennett that but like the first

00:15:08   app I can remember that had infinite

00:15:11   scroll was buzzes no it's not a bird

00:15:18   hi-yah yet her feet yeah where you got

00:15:22   to the bottom and the assumption was hey

00:15:24   you've scrolled to the bottom one and I

00:15:25   just show you more tweet for older

00:15:27   tweets from the timeline you're in right

00:15:29   now

00:15:29   mhm and it was you know it's like magic

00:15:33   was like I don't have a little button

00:15:35   I just scroll to the bottom it bounced

00:15:37   and then buhay they just faded in 15

00:15:39   minutes

00:15:40   yeah yeah that was a great client I its

00:15:43   and you know it you know for every great

00:15:48   Twitter third-party app that succeeded

00:15:50   there's been a lot of other great ones

00:15:53   that haven't right they it's been really

00:15:59   interesting what five six years of of of

00:16:04   Twitter clients and and a lot has

00:16:07   happened over that time and that's again

00:16:11   that's what makes me sad right that

00:16:13   that's going to stop happening so here

00:16:16   is a quote that lex had from an unnamed

00:16:20   developer a developer who did not want

00:16:22   to be named and i will do not believe to

00:16:24   be you and i hope it's now I know why

00:16:26   was I was that that that was one of them

00:16:28   well you know today things you know as a

00:16:30   distributed quote right like what people

00:16:33   are gonna be getting all that guy's ok

00:16:36   that's all but one thing I've learned

00:16:37   over the years is that whenever you read

00:16:39   an article that quote some people but

00:16:42   has did not want to be mentioned also

00:16:44   double check in your mind if it makes

00:16:47   sense that one of the people quoted

00:16:49   might have said okay

00:16:50   that said off the record because they've

00:16:52   already spoken to the reporter so my

00:16:54   thing is for a common but i'm saying its

00:16:56   more common than you might think that

00:16:57   somebody who is quoted by name

00:17:00   will also then say ok that's it for the

00:17:02   record you want me to say something off

00:17:04   the idea that you want to watch you want

00:17:05   some juice yeah right

00:17:07   I so I just you know I didn't

00:17:09   double-check I want to put your now tied

00:17:11   with that was not me uh but he said that

00:17:13   we pointed out that Twitter left the

00:17:15   door open for developers by saying that

00:17:16   once they hit the user caps it's not

00:17:19   they don't say that's this and this is

00:17:21   part of what really annoys me about that

00:17:22   message is they don't say I would almost

00:17:24   rather than say that's it you're done

00:17:25   hit the bricks or something like it was

00:17:29   so vague because it could have been

00:17:30   anything but they more like I said once

00:17:32   you hit the user limit and you got to

00:17:33   come talk to us whenever but somebody's

00:17:35   being vague like that it's their way of

00:17:37   saying no they're afraid to say now

00:17:40   right

00:17:41   well my other that has been my that's my

00:17:43   take on it right if I got that's not

00:17:45   gonna happen

00:17:45   my other thought though is that what

00:17:47   they want to do is evaluate are you a

00:17:50   threat is there a revenue-sharing thing

00:17:53   I you know because and I I you know

00:17:56   again I don't have a twitter client so

00:17:58   it's a lot easier for me to say this

00:18:00   then then you have a popular to a client

00:18:02   might think about it but to me it would

00:18:04   make it might make some sense that if

00:18:06   you hit your user cap and you talked to

00:18:08   Twitter that they might you if you're

00:18:11   selling let's say four dollar twitter

00:18:13   client that they might say okay we want

00:18:16   ten percent of each sale

00:18:18   henceforth you say you would you know

00:18:20   you'd and your next hundred thousand

00:18:22   users would cost you know couple

00:18:26   thousand dollars and feeds to Twitter

00:18:28   introduction

00:18:30   that's not what Twitter wants I don't

00:18:31   want they don't want money from us they

00:18:33   want money from advertisers right and

00:18:36   advertisers don't like hearing well okay

00:18:38   there's some people out there that don't

00:18:40   see your ad because they've paid money

00:18:42   right right there they want they want to

00:18:45   reach every eyeball they want to force

00:18:48   their message upon you

00:18:50   right and that's what's going to happen

00:18:52   right because that's and I guess that's

00:18:55   what I keep banging my head up against

00:18:57   is that there's all sorts of ways for

00:18:59   twitter to monetize the whole thing what

00:19:02   they already have in a nice way that's

00:19:04   profitable but that there's very very

00:19:09   few ways that they can monetize this

00:19:11   whole thing and

00:19:12   way where they become like a hundred

00:19:14   billion dollar valuation standalone

00:19:17   mega-corporation another to another

00:19:20   google or facebook our highway right

00:19:23   right

00:19:24   it's it i would bet I i don't know i

00:19:28   don't know this to be a fact that i

00:19:29   would bet that there's a huge internal

00:19:33   debate at Twitter between the developers

00:19:38   and the business people write that the

00:19:43   developers see the value in that

00:19:45   openness in that letting you know

00:19:48   letting the information flow and yeah

00:19:51   you could make some money off of that

00:19:52   flow of information right and the other

00:19:55   than that it's totally monetizable they

00:19:57   see the benefits and the dangers I think

00:19:59   I think they see both sides that once

00:20:01   you start closing this stuff off and say

00:20:03   yeah you know if you don't need

00:20:04   innovation from the outside and stuff

00:20:06   like that that man you can really get

00:20:08   you that's how you get blindsided by

00:20:11   somebody else now and the end of you

00:20:15   know that the the suits the business

00:20:17   people look you know that the whole

00:20:20   advertising is a very predictable thing

00:20:23   right business people like

00:20:25   predictability it's it's a it's a it's a

00:20:29   proven thing right look at facebook is

00:20:31   done Google's done it you know you have

00:20:34   a popular channel you can make money off

00:20:37   of the people that watch that channel

00:20:39   it's that simple

00:20:44   I've told you the story about how tweet

00:20:47   came about the word tweet i don't think

00:20:49   you did

00:20:50   yeah it's a the the first version of

00:20:54   twitter if occur which we basically

00:20:57   built the first version twitterrific

00:20:59   behind a day gotta to a working state

00:21:02   you know enough functionality to show to

00:21:07   a designer kind of thing and they loved

00:21:10   it we all immediately started using it

00:21:12   internally and I don't have a problem on

00:21:18   the menus

00:21:19   it's like you know I needed to come up

00:21:21   with a noun for what you were doing with

00:21:24   these things around are you an out right

00:21:28   because because you could select

00:21:30   something in that timeline and then what

00:21:32   do you do with that selection that

00:21:34   selection needed a name

00:21:35   mm so i can start calling twits it was

00:21:38   just like the just top of the head kind

00:21:41   of thing and it kind of stuff but nobody

00:21:44   liked it

00:21:45   nobody at all it was just like that's

00:21:48   kind of meaning you know well because

00:21:50   it's in it and us us english it's

00:21:54   synonymous with a dimwit

00:21:56   right exactly and the we have ever again

00:22:03   back of symbiotic relationship with

00:22:04   twitter to know friends it leo laporte

00:22:06   look at all that he yeah that was

00:22:10   another consideration right it's like

00:22:12   you know Kaylee was already using

00:22:13   Twitter right I don't want to go there

00:22:15   arm so back to the symbiotic

00:22:21   relationship with twitter they were

00:22:24   using this beta version of twitter if

00:22:26   they loved it as much as we did you know

00:22:28   it was pretty obvious having this thing

00:22:30   on your desktop was a good thing and

00:22:33   they didn't like to it either and they

00:22:35   realize that the that there was a

00:22:37   problem there and one of their api

00:22:39   engineer of getting blamed cook said you

00:22:45   know it David land on the bird icon

00:22:47   right so we have the the bird everybody

00:22:49   loved the bird at all that was was great

00:22:53   he says you know you got the bird want

00:22:55   your column tweet

00:22:56   I was like haha you know Oh problem

00:22:59   solved

00:23:00   and in fact the the first verse you know

00:23:04   I had to go through all the UI and and

00:23:06   change everything and and now basically

00:23:11   to a search and replace for twit to

00:23:14   tweet and you know we release it and

00:23:18   it's like okay there it to it they're

00:23:20   gonna be called tweets from now on the

00:23:22   fact that the version 101 there was some

00:23:24   tool tips that I had missed that

00:23:26   affected the release notes it says you

00:23:28   know remove the remaining twits and

00:23:32   again that it's that was just it's the

00:23:37   perfect example of how a third party and

00:23:40   Twitter can work together to make

00:23:42   something meaningful

00:23:44   it's funny that the bird came first and

00:23:46   yeah we tweet didn't jump out at you

00:23:49   yeah it in retrospect it's like you know

00:23:51   what we think I think it's because you

00:23:53   were too close to it I think that once

00:23:54   your guys get too close to something

00:23:56   like that and the bird you're already

00:23:58   comfortable with the bird you don't even

00:23:59   see it it and we met anyone and we've

00:24:02   been so we'd seen twit before we had the

00:24:04   bird right the twit preceded the bird so

00:24:06   it was like we kind of locked in with

00:24:08   twitter and it was it again somebody

00:24:11   with a little bit of distance from the

00:24:13   project can make a better decision about

00:24:15   a lot of times than the people that are

00:24:17   just right in there and that's all they

00:24:18   see so and so what do you think you

00:24:23   think your thing in near-term we don't

00:24:27   need to worry that it's not yeah the NL

00:24:29   the end is not not the bad guy and might

00:24:32   be on tap pots the blog post title was

00:24:36   as perfect right don't panic right

00:24:38   there's no reason to panic but yea

00:24:43   long-term that don't expect there to be

00:24:45   Twitter clients and around and if you've

00:24:48   got one right if you if you got a user

00:24:50   token for twitterrific or four Tweetbot

00:24:54   you're fine right don't go and delete it

00:24:57   right don't go into your app settings on

00:25:01   the Twitter homepage and and delete that

00:25:05   because you're losing your place in line

00:25:07   but

00:25:09   you know as long as you've got the

00:25:10   authentication token you can use that

00:25:12   product as long as it exists and it is a

00:25:17   different story for apps like

00:25:20   twitterrific and Tweetbot that are

00:25:23   already successful and presumably over

00:25:27   the hundred thousand that limit

00:25:29   we're gonna get you get double what

00:25:31   you've already got ahead of you before

00:25:33   you run into the got to come talk to us

00:25:35   you know close yeah let's suppose the

00:25:39   door come on in and close the door back

00:25:41   to back to the fence about the fences a

00:25:43   long ways away which is a big fat wads

00:25:46   and whoever else with the echo phone

00:25:48   number which is a big big difference

00:25:49   from the poor guys out there who just

00:25:52   have this idea that it's like sketched

00:25:54   out on paper that they haven't that they

00:25:57   know is an awesome idea but they haven't

00:25:58   started yet and now they're looking at

00:26:00   that hardcore hard-coded permanent limit

00:26:03   of a hundred thousand yeah with the

00:26:05   hearing that hearing that that they were

00:26:08   shutting art that they were just going

00:26:11   to take the don't build that fence can

00:26:15   hear my dog barking your hot that's yes

00:26:18   okay um we love to beat we were you know

00:26:23   the city's first post kind of put the

00:26:28   fear in our hearts that they were going

00:26:29   to shut down the API right right i think

00:26:33   on the table it was like yeah this year

00:26:35   I'm Peter let's do and that's what

00:26:39   that's where should I mean we would work

00:26:40   on this new version twitterrific for the

00:26:42   last six months right i mean where we

00:26:43   were seriously thinking okay what are we

00:26:46   going to do if they if they totally shut

00:26:48   it down

00:26:48   you know what's with our exit plan here

00:26:51   so hearing that they're lettin that the

00:26:54   established players stay around it

00:26:57   that's that's great news for us and I'm

00:27:00   sure of the guys at a pox or thinking

00:27:02   the same thing right minded they got up

00:27:05   i think they're good they're gonna have

00:27:06   a problem with the the mac client right

00:27:09   is it it there aren't a lot of user

00:27:11   tokens that they've accumulated from the

00:27:13   beta that and have and how I get more

00:27:16   have they said when then add applies it

00:27:19   applies when they do the switch over to

00:27:20   the version

00:27:21   point one of the eight that's the date

00:27:23   when when the count starts I don't think

00:27:28   that's one of the big point don't I

00:27:30   presume is when I think it's I think

00:27:32   it's as of the announcement

00:27:34   Oh mmm yeah I thought maybe it was as of

00:27:37   the standpoint switch over to the 1.1 a

00:27:41   API and I don't know that I wasn't clear

00:27:44   yet another it wasn't clear in that

00:27:45   message that the sweet spot for the mac

00:27:50   maybe the first client to rid of it to

00:27:55   run into this problem in fact I suspect

00:27:59   it will be

00:28:00   it's a and again that's just that shows

00:28:04   the problem right

00:28:06   it's a great piece of software that

00:28:08   they're not gonna be able to sell one of

00:28:11   the ways I feel like Twitter could tweak

00:28:12   this and in a very apple-like wait in a

00:28:15   way that Apple has has not really made

00:28:17   any major changes to the appstore

00:28:19   fundamentally it's that is exactly what

00:28:21   they announced it as but they've made a

00:28:24   slew of minor course adjustments here

00:28:27   and there you know with the show so for

00:28:29   example I've one perfect example that

00:28:31   was real frustrating early on in the app

00:28:33   store was that whole rule against

00:28:34   duplicating built-in behavior and so

00:28:36   they were saying what no Calendar apps

00:28:38   because the phone has a built-in

00:28:41   calendar app even though all of these

00:28:43   guys have ideas for calendar you is that

00:28:45   are nothing like the apple one and the

00:28:46   whole reason we're going to do it is the

00:28:47   frustrated and then Apple backed away

00:28:49   from there and they were little that's

00:28:50   like all right that never happened you

00:28:52   can put calendar absent now they may not

00:28:54   let you they still don't let you switch

00:28:56   the default calendar system-wide you

00:28:58   know and they can't do famous right with

00:29:00   Sparrow you can't set a default email

00:29:02   client you can't set chrome as your

00:29:04   default browser but at least you're

00:29:05   allowed to put it in whereas a course

00:29:07   correction so one way that I feel like

00:29:09   Twitter could course correct on this

00:29:10   would be to raise that limit a little

00:29:13   bit ly listen Luke yeah loosen the reins

00:29:15   500,000 is really low and i know that

00:29:18   for some people out there it's like man

00:29:20   a hundred thousand users in my app would

00:29:22   be fantastic but in the grand scheme of

00:29:24   things it is you're selling two-dollar

00:29:26   apps or something like that it is not

00:29:27   that much and and conversely a hundred

00:29:31   thousand users to twitter is nothing

00:29:33   exactly what I could the the number of

00:29:35   signups on a day right so I and so

00:29:39   that's what i think is that trying to

00:29:40   think this through logically and just in

00:29:42   the benefits of everybody i do

00:29:44   understand that Twitter doesn't want to

00:29:46   let any individual client grow so large

00:29:48   that it could threaten you know like

00:29:51   there was that thing last year where

00:29:53   that one company bought a bunch of

00:29:54   Twitter clients that accounted for like

00:29:55   forty percent twitter client usage and

00:29:57   then they started talking about

00:29:59   hey we're going to build our own Twitter

00:30:01   like service and let all the users of

00:30:04   our apps sign up for that too i think i

00:30:07   think that had a lot to do with the

00:30:09   current policies yes I really death you

00:30:11   know I talked earlier about fear and

00:30:14   that's when the fear began it's like oh

00:30:15   crap ok somebody to come out come along

00:30:18   and broadside us and after exposure set

00:30:22   set that number at a number that that

00:30:26   was is a feasible competitive threat to

00:30:29   twitter which is a lot higher than a

00:30:30   hundred thousand and you can even codify

00:30:32   it in the guidelines that it that the

00:30:35   number is is all user tokens that are

00:30:39   owned by the same instant company so

00:30:42   that if one company went out and bought

00:30:44   10 clients that each had 200,000 users

00:30:47   that the company's count would be a

00:30:50   million and then you've got to come talk

00:30:53   to twitter or something like that but

00:30:54   anyway I feel like that's one thing that

00:30:56   they could do that could really keep the

00:30:58   invoice keep the innovation flowing

00:31:00   without threatening Twitter itself

00:31:04   I I think there are a lot of things that

00:31:09   they could do right but they've chosen

00:31:13   this path it and you know it it's their

00:31:18   network they built it

00:31:19   it's their products their company you

00:31:21   know they can do whatever the hell they

00:31:22   want with it

00:31:23   I mean with its it you know I

00:31:28   I don't necessarily think what they're

00:31:33   doing

00:31:34   now is is in my best interest or in your

00:31:36   best interest but it may be in their

00:31:38   best interest right and it's their

00:31:41   prerogative to do that arm

00:31:45   I you know it we've always we've always

00:31:49   played the game by their rules you know

00:31:52   that they specify the API they specify

00:31:55   you know who gets access they specify

00:31:59   how you're going to display stuff you

00:32:02   know it's it's it's it's in that case

00:32:04   and that's in that so that's it that's

00:32:08   the same way that that is the app on the

00:32:10   App Store yeah right and and that's

00:32:13   where that the parallel it rings true

00:32:15   now

00:32:16   yeah there are a lot of other things

00:32:20   that were those two don't aren't the

00:32:23   same but I don't bottom line is going to

00:32:28   be interesting to watch a play out yeah

00:32:29   it's gonna be interesting to watch it

00:32:31   play out and I the the for me the known

00:32:34   into these right now are the Twitter

00:32:36   clients are you know by third-party you

00:32:39   know that the things that show the

00:32:41   timeline on your mobile your laptop

00:32:45   wherever eventually going to die out on

00:32:51   that happy note let's yeah I think about

00:32:54   this take a break for our first sponsor

00:32:55   i want to tell you about will take about

00:32:58   a great app app / service really called

00:33:01   apps fire

00:33:03   they've sponsored the talkshow long

00:33:05   before you're not too long before

00:33:07   earlier in the year but they're back

00:33:09   here's the bottom line the problem we're

00:33:11   trying to solve is that in apple's app

00:33:14   store it's really really difficult to

00:33:16   find the best apps and everybody who

00:33:20   does this if you look at the topless you

00:33:22   know that the top list do not correspond

00:33:25   to the best apps right I I mean

00:33:27   everybody knows this right so yeah in

00:33:30   there nobody does not equal quality

00:33:32   ah i think in their list right now

00:33:36   they're saying of of apps that don't

00:33:37   show up in the top rankings include the

00:33:39   mule radio app instapaper encoding now

00:33:41   what in what world should those apps not

00:33:43   being at the top that

00:33:45   rally so that's what apps fire does is

00:33:47   they've built a great user experience to

00:33:49   help users find apps not just abs in

00:33:52   general but the best apps and what

00:33:56   they've done is they build a thing that

00:33:57   everything that they call the app score

00:33:59   and it's the their equivalent in-app

00:34:01   terminology to what rotten tomatoes does

00:34:05   from movies and it's a it's a daily rank

00:34:08   of tens of dozens I guess of quality

00:34:12   parameters

00:34:14   ah on apps all over the app store and

00:34:18   from various review sites outside the

00:34:21   app store that give rankings and they

00:34:23   filter the stuffs to get the low quality

00:34:25   junk out there so even if something is

00:34:27   popular but if it's getting poorly

00:34:29   reviewed outside the app store that's

00:34:31   what the apps court can identify so

00:34:33   you're not just you know the way that

00:34:35   the appstore works is like if you just

00:34:36   pick your movies based on box scores

00:34:38   well everybody went to see this movie so

00:34:40   that's what I'll go see as opposed to

00:34:41   rotten tomatoes which says look Robert

00:34:43   ebert said this thing stunk

00:34:45   Peter Travers of Rolling Stone said they

00:34:47   fell asleep during the movie you want to

00:34:48   say yeah that's that's but that's why

00:34:51   convention all along with that we need

00:34:53   to know apps 30-day there needs to be

00:34:58   something about that were trusted

00:35:00   sources say this is a good app not you

00:35:03   know Johnny 6969 you know on his own

00:35:07   yeah i'm half store say how do how do we

00:35:09   know this sucks

00:35:10   how did you know my apple at the fish

00:35:12   out I'm sorry John

00:35:15   it's out that it needed to have fire the

00:35:18   surface you can you continue that it can

00:35:20   get it that out i will take that out

00:35:22   okay they're out of there and they add

00:35:24   in rich data they add in this stuff like

00:35:26   YouTube videos or Vimeo videos

00:35:28   screenshots and stuff like that so you

00:35:30   can check out the app you can see it for

00:35:32   yourself you can personalize the apt to

00:35:35   see just the type of apps that you

00:35:37   prefer of all you want to see our games

00:35:40   you can just set it up so that all your

00:35:42   wants is always going to show you the

00:35:43   best game and it's a free app and it's

00:35:48   Universal you get for the ipad you get

00:35:50   for the iphone it is retina ready on Bo

00:35:54   I can't say enough good things about

00:35:56   this

00:35:57   so here's what you do you can go to you

00:36:00   got two options here you can go to apps

00:36:02   fire dot-com a PPS fired com or just go

00:36:07   to the app store and search for apps

00:36:09   fire and it'll be the first hit you get

00:36:11   right up there i just wrote that down

00:36:14   that sounds like a good think it's

00:36:19   really good

00:36:20   here's another situation with the

00:36:21   twitter client the twin now this is a

00:36:23   little bit outside your wheelhouse is

00:36:25   the way and it does seem like where the

00:36:27   rubber is first hitting the road on

00:36:29   these changes is with Twitter's

00:36:32   interaction with other networks right so

00:36:36   the first they yanked Instagram out and

00:36:39   everybody's sort of raised an eyebrow

00:36:41   and in other words what you can do with

00:36:43   instagram as you could say hey plug in

00:36:45   your twitter credentials and it will go

00:36:47   through and say look here's all of your

00:36:49   people you know your friends on Twitter

00:36:53   who are also on instagram do you want to

00:36:55   follow them and i have to say and I use

00:36:57   that because i don't use facebook so i

00:36:59   couldn't use facebook for that I did

00:37:01   that when I it made Instagram it may be

00:37:04   made the difference to me from at the

00:37:05   beginning of whether Instagram was

00:37:07   something that stuck with me or not

00:37:08   because I found you know I don't know

00:37:12   dozen two dozen friend put it bootstraps

00:37:16   you

00:37:16   yeah it's and all of a sudden I'm seeing

00:37:18   pictures from people who on personal

00:37:19   friends with an Instagram and I don't

00:37:21   have to hunt through and and take a

00:37:23   guess what their names are and stuff

00:37:25   like that and the truth is ID just don't

00:37:28   think de you know like you just start

00:37:31   trying to do it from memory you just

00:37:32   forget i mean i forgot

00:37:34   good work with and we can get to this

00:37:36   later with the show and talk about

00:37:37   app.net a little bit but like with

00:37:39   trying to get started on app.net it's

00:37:41   like I mean some of my very best friends

00:37:43   I just forgot to look for them like Paul

00:37:47   Costas was like hey dude when you follow

00:37:49   me there and it's like he's one of my

00:37:50   best friends and I I was like I thought

00:37:52   it was and I looked a lot like oh I mean

00:37:55   because I just didn't know where as if i

00:37:56   had like a thing that just said hey

00:37:58   here's all of your friends from twitter

00:38:00   who are on this service you want to

00:38:01   follow them here too and

00:38:03   and follow follow follow follow follow

00:38:04   follow and dinner all right well so they

00:38:07   yanked it from Instagram and everybody

00:38:09   thought well we know that they hate

00:38:11   their facebook at each other and

00:38:13   arrivals and there's some bad blood

00:38:15   because facebook kinda crapped all over

00:38:17   Twitter a while ago with another similar

00:38:19   type feature so it's just chalk this up

00:38:22   let's be optimistic and and chalk it up

00:38:24   to a facebook twitter type thing but now

00:38:27   yesterday when they did it

00:38:29   tumblr i mean that's just like to me

00:38:33   it's like beyond the pale because i

00:38:35   don't understand it at all right just

00:38:38   it's just it's like I how is knowing who

00:38:42   I follow the competitive advantage

00:38:48   well any other interesting it and

00:38:50   tumblers response and I give them credit

00:38:52   for it because I think that they're

00:38:53   Republic response to this was in very

00:38:57   plain language and in that I i should

00:39:00   actually quoted because it was so well

00:39:02   said I thought that it wasn't

00:39:03   mealy-mouthed it wasn't whiny but it was

00:39:05   just we don't get it

00:39:06   I mean we're disappointed because we're

00:39:10   contributing to Twitter we've made it

00:39:12   easy for people who as they tumble to

00:39:14   auto tweet their tumblr you know that

00:39:17   hey I've got a new thing here they're

00:39:19   they're adding content to Twitter

00:39:21   they're not just pulling information in

00:39:24   one direction from the Twitter

00:39:25   quote-unquote hate the term social graph

00:39:28   I do hate to use it but I think in this

00:39:32   sense it really there's that it really

00:39:33   is what what people are talking about

00:39:35   this connection of who you know but they

00:39:38   were contributing like tweets tweet

00:39:41   content is constantly streaming into

00:39:44   twitter from people using tumblr it is

00:39:47   absolutely like you use the word before

00:39:48   and I don't hesitate to use it at all

00:39:51   I thought it was a very healthy

00:39:52   symbiotic relationship

00:39:54   alright we're Twitter or tumblr is not a

00:39:56   Twitter competitor at all right it's to

00:40:00   me it's almost a picture a picture

00:40:03   dictionary example of what a symbiotic

00:40:05   relationship was where tumblr users are

00:40:08   writing content that gets tweeted when

00:40:12   completed and then people see it on

00:40:14   twitter and click the URL and go to

00:40:17   tumblr i can only man I know what my

00:40:19   refers look like and I know that I've

00:40:21   said this before my referral listings

00:40:23   are turning into more and more more more

00:40:26   useless because it's just there's all

00:40:29   just they're all Tico leaks

00:40:31   it's a health that speaking of alternate

00:40:33   monetization schemes would you pay to

00:40:34   know where those TCO links came from how

00:40:37   tall I would pay i would invite here

00:40:39   here's a check for a thousand dollars in

00:40:41   a lab solutely oh yeah I it would be

00:40:44   better than google analytics to me

00:40:46   because they could do it in real time it

00:40:48   would absolutely be interesting and if

00:40:50   they could correlate that with the oh

00:40:55   yeah absolutely yeah there's a gold mine

00:40:57   of information there it's actually like

00:41:00   i said because i use why you Sean in

00:41:02   management and it's still great for

00:41:03   tracking you know just you know other

00:41:06   stuff too

00:41:07   I as a daily thing i have google google

00:41:10   analytics hooked up which is interesting

00:41:13   for other stuff like I had a potential

00:41:14   sponsor the day you just wanted to know

00:41:16   you had an app that is relate it's just

00:41:19   for people who live in chicago and he

00:41:20   wanted to know you know I don't think

00:41:22   it's a great idea but just wondering how

00:41:24   many readers you have in chicago and I

00:41:26   thought I don't know idea ends up

00:41:27   one-point-eight percent of daring

00:41:29   fireball readers live in greater chicago

00:41:31   area i had no idea google analytics gave

00:41:33   me that and that's that's just really

00:41:35   really useful I think the information

00:41:37   that Twitter could give me from the

00:41:38   tikka links would be I would be right I

00:41:42   would probably become my go-to source

00:41:44   for checking on how the site's doing on

00:41:46   a daily basis do you think advertisers

00:41:48   are getting that information

00:41:49   okay i don't know i'm sorry i think that

00:41:53   i think that's part of it that's gonna

00:41:54   be a part of the deal

00:41:55   I don't know if they are yet but that

00:41:56   has to be has to be a part of the video

00:41:59   there's no other reason why they even

00:42:01   went to the t-con group right created

00:42:04   that it was I mean that there is a

00:42:07   safety issue they're right they can shut

00:42:09   down a malicious link but right how many

00:42:12   malicious links are there really you

00:42:15   know I are you I know you're not going

00:42:17   to post a malicious link right people

00:42:20   know i'm not going to post a little it's

00:42:22   just link other than maybe a rickroll

00:42:23   but you know that

00:42:25   it really is about the analytics angle

00:42:29   absolutely and the analytics I it should

00:42:31   be if they play their cards right i mean

00:42:33   they've got the winning hand if they

00:42:35   don't monetize the analytics from Tico

00:42:39   right then it they then it'll be like a

00:42:41   case study in the future for how to

00:42:44   watch an opportunity right really well

00:42:46   it's like new coke right you're sitting

00:42:49   there with with four aces in your hand

00:42:52   you know and it's you know everybody is

00:42:54   starting the bat I mean you can't you

00:42:55   can't lose unless you you know you're an

00:42:57   idiot

00:42:58   yeah so I I'd agree with that there's

00:43:04   with that here's the the comment from

00:43:06   tumblr to our dismay twitter has

00:43:09   restricted our users ability to find

00:43:12   twitter friends on tumblr given our

00:43:13   history of embracing their platform

00:43:15   this is especially upsetting our

00:43:17   syndication feature is responsible for

00:43:19   hundreds of millions of tweets and we

00:43:22   eagerly enabled Twitter cards across 70

00:43:24   million blogs and 30 billion posts as

00:43:28   one of Twitter's first partners while

00:43:30   we're delighted by the response to our

00:43:31   integrations with facebook and gmail we

00:43:34   are truly disappointed by Twitter's

00:43:35   decision that's a great statement i have

00:43:37   two hats off to tell me out for just

00:43:39   calling it as they see it clearer on

00:43:41   angry eyes too yeah right and concise

00:43:43   yeah clear concise and honest and you

00:43:46   know in and just say you know and no and

00:43:48   admitting that this is their call we're

00:43:50   not going to pretend like this is some

00:43:51   kind of mutual agreement and I don't

00:43:53   yank it out on us

00:43:54   yeah you up to the like you know it's

00:44:01   it's it's not knowing what Twitter's

00:44:04   thinking right it you know you mentioned

00:44:07   Apple you don't have the Apple has

00:44:10   restrictions but you can understand why

00:44:11   those restrictions exist right there

00:44:13   protecting Apple's own interests and

00:44:15   they're predicting apples customers

00:44:17   interests right that's the bottom line

00:44:20   for ninety-nine percent of what Apple

00:44:23   does

00:44:25   twitter I'm not yeah okay other than the

00:44:29   you know advertisers are more important

00:44:31   to us than the only the users of our of

00:44:34   our network other than that I just don't

00:44:38   get things like this

00:44:41   yeah really just I starting we got appt

00:44:47   dotnet yeah but you've had some smart

00:44:50   stuff there i don't know we always been

00:44:52   too long don't and I don't want to I

00:44:54   don't want to create the impression that

00:44:55   by me having linked to it and help them

00:44:58   meet their fundraising goal and that

00:45:01   talking about it that I that I'm banking

00:45:04   on app.net or I'm switching to ab dot

00:45:06   net or that I think that even if

00:45:08   somebody is going to come up with a

00:45:09   rival to platform that it is apt on that

00:45:11   but I do think that they picked the

00:45:13   right time to try something like this

00:45:15   and the right approach writing the right

00:45:18   approach but you've been talking on on

00:45:22   app.net about some of the naming

00:45:24   problems they have just obvious things

00:45:26   like the fact that they don't have a a

00:45:29   word like tweet which is both a noun and

00:45:32   verb

00:45:33   yeah right with so you know there's no

00:45:35   personality there's no personality it's

00:45:38   like it sounds like a Microsoft product

00:45:40   right you post turkey right yeah they

00:45:43   submit you know it's just it's just

00:45:46   there's no it's not a bad word but it's

00:45:48   got like you said no personality

00:45:50   it is it's yeah it it if you know if

00:45:54   they expect to see white up adoption for

00:45:57   this thing it's gotta have some

00:45:59   personalities gotta be non-threatening

00:46:02   it's gotta be something that the average

00:46:06   person can look at and understand where

00:46:11   the value is right right the i think

00:46:14   part of the problem right now is isn't

00:46:16   is they're confusing infrastructure

00:46:18   which is apt net with what people are

00:46:21   going to be using which is the alpha the

00:46:25   clients that there is the just

00:46:29   and the I can't can't get too upset

00:46:36   about this i mean how long is this thing

00:46:38   existed right a month and a half early

00:46:41   day it's it's it's like you know it's

00:46:43   like when Twitter was twttr yeah alright

00:46:47   it's it's that is it the baby right I'm

00:46:51   not going to be you know writing too

00:46:52   much on a baby but if you give a baby a

00:46:55   name that name sticks with them for the

00:46:57   rest of their life

00:46:59   alright it's important to come up with a

00:47:01   good name a name you're happy with you

00:47:04   know you're not going to make the fuzz

00:47:05   butt or something like that and then you

00:47:07   know shitty 16 and we're still calling +

00:47:09   but Jonas when Jonas was was born Amy's

00:47:13   legal name was still shudder starter

00:47:16   maiden name is her legal name

00:47:17   uh-huh and so he's was born and it's his

00:47:21   name on the sign in the booth it in the

00:47:23   boxer but they put it is put babies in a

00:47:25   box really and just said baby boy baby

00:47:27   boy the gal haha and my dad like I'm a

00:47:33   good name right there kind of had a good

00:47:35   ring to it almost stuck

00:47:37   that's the thing that almost I said

00:47:38   that's why I bring this up is that if we

00:47:39   had gone another day or two it might

00:47:41   have stuck

00:47:42   yeah baby boy the gap and that's that's

00:47:44   really my point of the you know of Alton

00:47:47   Caldwell on the other guys there that

00:47:49   you know I think it's been a little bit

00:47:52   of time thinking about it now because if

00:47:54   you don't you're gonna regret it in the

00:47:55   future

00:47:56   I'm I guess another way to look at it in

00:47:58   the big picture is it you've got to

00:48:00   start thinking product

00:48:02   yeah it just think infrastructure and

00:48:04   technology right and it's just getting

00:48:06   down into Steve Jobs territory where the

00:48:09   the product has to drive the technology

00:48:12   not the other way around

00:48:13   no this is that this is right out of

00:48:15   like the 1997 jobs is the interim CEO

00:48:20   how what are we going to do any I don't

00:48:23   even at that point he hadn't even done

00:48:25   the radical look we're going to get rid

00:48:26   of 37 of these products and we're going

00:48:28   to have for consumer laptop a consumer

00:48:31   desk topic pro laptop and a pro desktop

00:48:33   and that's it and that's how we're going

00:48:35   to get back into focus

00:48:36   it was before they even pick those

00:48:37   things but he just said i think it was

00:48:40   in response i forget it

00:48:42   was at WWDC i was at WWDC when he took

00:48:44   the questions and answers and somebody

00:48:46   had asked about open docx which they

00:48:48   were said they were gonna kill and that

00:48:50   he said it doesn't it's you know it does

00:48:52   all sorts of clever stuff and it's great

00:48:54   technology but it doesn't fit it doesn't

00:48:56   matter if it's great technology

00:48:58   sometimes the vision has to drive the

00:49:02   technology not the other way around you

00:49:04   can't say well we've got this good

00:49:06   technology so we have to figure out a

00:49:07   way to use it right and it's like that's

00:49:10   what app.net has to do is it's not

00:49:12   enough to just have the infrastructure

00:49:14   and that alone is hard i mean everybody

00:49:16   who watched Twitter grow from small to

00:49:19   big and you know who still remembers the

00:49:21   days of the fail whale knows that that's

00:49:24   hard and who even knows if app.net

00:49:26   technology back-end is actually would

00:49:28   survive that time of growth but let's

00:49:30   just assume that it is that alone is not

00:49:32   enough

00:49:33   that's not enough it's got to be a

00:49:34   product that makes sense as a cohesive

00:49:37   whole from the outside not the inside

00:49:41   well no it's it it's interesting we were

00:49:44   one of the first people on Twitter to

00:49:47   actually think about product right

00:49:48   because we were given release this thing

00:49:51   and it was originally if free app and

00:49:54   but you know we're not going to release

00:49:56   something that's not thought out right

00:49:58   and you know we had to go through that

00:49:59   thought process okay coming up with what

00:50:05   this thing is going to be armed and

00:50:10   that's hard i mean it people i think a

00:50:14   lot of people take that for granted you

00:50:16   know

00:50:17   yeah it's like that you know this whole

00:50:18   Apple Samsung case right now it's like

00:50:20   the thing that's been most eye-opening

00:50:23   for me is how many freaking prototype

00:50:25   say to the iphone mm and how varied they

00:50:29   were well and then enter the idea that

00:50:31   more obvious it seems after exactly

00:50:33   exactly

00:50:34   and you know the more the more you think

00:50:36   it through the more you clarify it the

00:50:40   more it becomes simple the more obvious

00:50:43   it is it's really a weird thing it's

00:50:47   like it's like you're coming you know

00:50:48   and and there's that moment like when

00:50:51   somebody says why don't you name tweet

00:50:53   where it's just like oh right that's

00:50:56   like the skies open and and you know

00:50:58   that clarity is achieved and you can't

00:51:01   unsee it after that

00:51:03   yeah right now get once you heard that

00:51:05   you couldn't think of it you couldn't

00:51:06   not call them tweets right right and

00:51:09   what you know and what you saw the

00:51:11   iphone eat it originally was going to

00:51:15   get an iphone you know i watch the

00:51:16   announcement anything I don't really

00:51:18   want I don't want to carry email or out

00:51:21   of my pocket you know that I get enough

00:51:23   i don't have enough electronic

00:51:25   interruptions in my day anyway I don't

00:51:28   kind of want that with me all the time

00:51:29   and then you know five minutes and the

00:51:32   apple store playing with that first

00:51:33   iphone it's like oh she's this is the

00:51:38   future right i remember that it is that

00:51:40   this is another that this is the next 30

00:51:42   years of computing I remember more that

00:51:45   there's the glass cylinder that they

00:51:48   were behind on the macworld yeah so

00:51:50   flare i love that picture that Duncan

00:51:52   thought that way that's really you know

00:51:54   that's one of the I think it's honestly

00:51:56   I think not just for the tech nerd world

00:51:59   I think it's one of the best photos that

00:52:01   I've seen in the last decade right i

00:52:03   think and i think that we it it'll it

00:52:06   should rightfully go down as like the

00:52:09   iconic picture of the decade that decade

00:52:12   in technology honestly now the great for

00:52:15   kids that get that moment of clarity

00:52:17   right are you looking at that and just

00:52:19   go on that this is that they got

00:52:21   absolutely absolutely everything right

00:52:23   here

00:52:24   right yeah after using it for a month my

00:52:26   either little niggles here and there but

00:52:28   99.9 percent of that original iphone was

00:52:32   perfect

00:52:33   yeah really was just have one right here

00:52:35   in my hand I my desk batteries on I've

00:52:38   got original mac up and in the Attic

00:52:40   I've got my i will never sell that I've

00:52:42   got that will never sell fun right yeah

00:52:44   that's I still I still turn it over in

00:52:46   my hands on I still do i love metal back

00:52:50   middle back it still hasn't stopped

00:52:52   yeah I'm hold it right now it's like

00:52:55   holy crap sense

00:52:59   yeah like the front face is not as good

00:53:02   the front face is absolutely sort of a

00:53:05   hack with the silver the chrome around

00:53:08   then the bezel but that from the back

00:53:12   man that thing is perfect you can see

00:53:15   why they did that that chrome bezel

00:53:17   right they need they didn't have the

00:53:18   technology to yep to meet those to the

00:53:22   acid for materials right they need some

00:53:24   of the time together right right again

00:53:28   again and hien in hindsight in hindsight

00:53:29   it's really easy to look at back oh yeah

00:53:32   of course that's a and that you know how

00:53:35   many iterations to take them to to come

00:53:37   to that conclusion can only imagine I

00:53:43   mean we're going to start wrapping

00:53:45   things up when I still I do want to talk

00:53:46   about retro stuff but before we do while

00:53:49   we're still on twitter i would like to

00:53:51   talk about our second sponsor and fits

00:53:54   right in it is a brand new app called

00:53:57   tweet keeper i just installed it it does

00:54:02   exactly what it says and I'm going to

00:54:04   tell you and I don't run because i'm

00:54:06   going to tell you what the NIU 16 you

00:54:07   can predict who i've loaded up in here

00:54:10   Craig but we keep our dust it's an

00:54:13   iphone app that lets you easily save

00:54:15   search and export tweets and it's not

00:54:18   just for yours you can just put in a

00:54:19   username any user name and it'll slurp

00:54:22   down all the available tweets for that

00:54:24   user know why would you want to do

00:54:25   that's because the twitter api only let

00:54:27   you get 3200 tweet so if I said

00:54:29   chocoberry it'll give me the Craig

00:54:32   huckleberries last 3200 tweet now here's

00:54:35   the thing

00:54:36   a month from now

00:54:36   when Craig has posted a few hundred more

00:54:38   and i'm using tweet keeper keeper I just

00:54:41   launched it every couple days and it'll

00:54:43   keep launching them and so a year from

00:54:44   now i'll have more than 3,200 of your

00:54:47   tweets so it's still can't go back

00:54:49   beyond that today's 3200 tweet horizon

00:54:52   but starting now you can start saving

00:54:55   tweets from the users you want these

00:54:58   tweets you want to archive and it'll

00:55:00   just get them all starting from now go

00:55:02   back 3200 and then going forward will

00:55:05   keep them all

00:55:06   lets you search them of course and

00:55:08   searches real fast I've already loaded

00:55:09   up a couple of accounts with all 3200

00:55:12   tweets searched for peanut found them as

00:55:15   a hint as to who i'm using it for I and

00:55:19   you can export them you can export them

00:55:21   to json the raw JSON format it exports

00:55:24   is exactly in the same format that

00:55:26   Twitter gives you over the API you can

00:55:28   export them in plain text you can export

00:55:32   them to a spreadsheet and then you can

00:55:35   just email or open the tweets and

00:55:37   another app it works exactly as it says

00:55:41   it is very very fast and even works with

00:55:44   private accounts which I i haven't tried

00:55:46   that I have a private cop presume you'd

00:55:47   need a password for that it's super

00:55:51   simple so you want to save tweets your

00:55:53   the sooner you start using it the

00:55:55   quicker you're going to have a more

00:55:57   complete archive of of a user who do you

00:56:00   think who do you think I'm saving in

00:56:01   there

00:56:02   well I haven't got the peanut portion of

00:56:04   a of dad boner yet but if if I'm

00:56:09   guessing it's dad boner right car my

00:56:11   friend Carl wells on out and Detroit who

00:56:13   is the greatest in my opinion brand

00:56:16   block well near Detroit yeah Eric eighth

00:56:20   to detroit area a literary character

00:56:25   Sudan a anonymously written fictional

00:56:29   character on Twitter who I believed to

00:56:31   be one of the great literary characters

00:56:33   of the last 10 years hilarious and

00:56:36   medium you fall in love with him but

00:56:38   then you want to go back and read his

00:56:40   old ones or a month from now when he

00:56:42   starts referencing something that

00:56:44   happened a couple months ago you want to

00:56:45   go back well guess what your stock in

00:56:47   regular twitter apps because you only

00:56:49   got the most

00:56:50   recent ones you use something like 20

00:56:51   keeper you've got them all

00:56:53   you can go back you can search you can

00:56:54   see the old stories and it's a great way

00:56:57   to backup your own Twitter account past

00:56:59   what Twitter would let you do so you

00:57:01   soon as you put your own username in

00:57:02   there

00:57:03   the longer you're going to have an

00:57:06   archive of your own tweets tweet keeper

00:57:09   is available in the app store for an

00:57:11   introductory price of just a buck 99 199

00:57:14   get this great app it works got a nice

00:57:16   interface super fast you can find out

00:57:18   more at tweet keeper app.com or just

00:57:23   search for tweet keeper in the app store

00:57:24   that's what I did first thing that came

00:57:26   up

00:57:27   tweet keeper it's a great app let's talk

00:57:31   about reading stuff let's go through

00:57:33   yeah you and I started talking about it

00:57:35   yesterday

00:57:36   ah and this is really really fast i mean

00:57:39   you and and developing xscope puts you

00:57:41   right i mean like you could not be more

00:57:44   i've looked at every single freaking

00:57:46   pixel your display your neck deep in

00:57:48   this stuff and your six-foot-eight yeah

00:57:52   that's a lot of pixels well and the most

00:57:56   interesting thing about it is that prior

00:57:59   to the retina Mac ex-cops job was

00:58:03   showing helping you show pixels on

00:58:06   screen whether it was aligning them or

00:58:09   constraining them or magnifying them but

00:58:11   it's here's the pixels on the screen

00:58:13   we're going to show you them bigger the

00:58:16   big change with retina is not like iOS

00:58:19   where it's just four times more pixels

00:58:22   it is variant right that's the thing

00:58:27   that blows my mind and really gives me

00:58:29   headaches just thinking about the math

00:58:31   that's important in xcode like and

00:58:35   slowly siracusa has covered this stuff

00:58:37   extensively and it's still mind-blowing

00:58:39   is that everybody knows you get the

00:58:41   macbook retina you you you have five

00:58:47   choices for resolution and the middle

00:58:50   one is the default which is best for

00:58:52   retina which is the only one where

00:58:54   pixels or pixels

00:58:56   yes it was yeah it's the one where

00:58:59   you see two pixels for everyone window

00:59:02   point right a window point is the only

00:59:07   pixel in in pre retina a window point is

00:59:11   a pixel and in the New World window

00:59:13   point in best for retina is for but

00:59:16   there's two to other dimensions in each

00:59:19   way where where are you

00:59:22   so when it simulates like the 1900 x

00:59:25   1200 something display it is drawing

00:59:29   off-screen to a pixel doubled version of

00:59:32   that / and then scaling it down to the

00:59:36   actual 28 by what ad so you're actually

00:59:42   one dat by 14 for right it's actually on

00:59:46   1800 excuse me

00:59:47   right so it's actually only showing you

00:59:49   two thirds of the pixels but it was okay

00:59:52   because the pixels are so small it

00:59:54   actually looks good can't tell ya you

00:59:56   can't tell when you're when you're on

00:59:58   that more space setting

00:59:58   that more space setting

01:00:00   the retina image is being created by Mac

01:00:06   os10 is twice of that that size that you

01:00:13   selected and then get scaled down

01:00:15   sixty-six percent to fit on the display

01:00:18   and i like that that's something that's

01:00:21   something you know if you see something

01:00:22   that's drawing a 1 pixel line it'll get

01:00:26   a little busy right it gets that tiny

01:00:29   little bit fuzzy but you you're far

01:00:30   enough back that you can't tell and it

01:00:33   that's one of the things interesting in

01:00:34   in the new version X go for me is that

01:00:36   the and the loop right it draws a little

01:00:40   grid so you can out you know to

01:00:42   delineate each pixel easily and i'm

01:00:45   drawing that grid with one pixel and

01:00:48   it's just so fine it's like it's there

01:00:51   but it's not right I can't you guys yeah

01:00:54   I can't tell that it's a pixel it's just

01:00:56   like this because in a hairline it's

01:00:58   like it's like a pc and sometimes to get

01:00:59   a piece of hair on your laptop screen

01:01:02   you know it's just that really thin

01:01:05   I what it is in in regular UI design

01:01:09   like if you and I were just working on a

01:01:10   regular mac app in and we're going

01:01:13   retina with it that the most the

01:01:16   thinnest you typically would get there

01:01:17   would be one point right you wouldn't

01:01:20   typically draw stuff in the UI at less

01:01:23   than one point now is that correct that

01:01:25   that you just want to put a line you

01:01:28   want to put a one you want to put up a

01:01:29   hair line between the source list and

01:01:32   the content that's the app we're making

01:01:34   you're going to draw that at one point

01:01:35   and then write three retina max it'll

01:01:37   register will draw is one pixel and on

01:01:39   retina max it draws two pixels as two

01:01:42   pixels right so what you've done the

01:01:44   thing that's interesting is that you can

01:01:45   draw a half a point now on a retina

01:01:48   display your drawing your drawing half

01:01:51   of one of those and that's that's where

01:01:53   the math got complicated right because

01:01:56   right for example that the windows can

01:01:57   only be positioned on full point

01:02:02   boundaries right but ex-cop has gotta

01:02:05   measure stuff that's on those half-point

01:02:08   boundaries so

01:02:09   I'm positioning windows and then having

01:02:11   to shift views around in those windows

01:02:14   so that they align on that right half

01:02:16   point position now one of the night it's

01:02:20   it was hard i'm sure it is really it and

01:02:24   you're not done yet you do have a beta

01:02:25   that is your asking i've got it and it

01:02:28   works great and it's just makes me more

01:02:31   happy to just stare at the retina

01:02:33   macbook pro what if you notice that the

01:02:36   one pixel a shadow border on the windows

01:02:40   on yours no I haven't but no no I'm

01:02:44   talking about just on a standard mac OS

01:02:45   x window

01:02:46   yeah yeah there's just that one picks

01:02:48   yet but that kind of makes the window

01:02:50   pop out a little bit yep that I know

01:02:52   that's not there that's not there on the

01:02:54   non-retina version and apple hood army

01:02:57   did

01:02:57   it's an amazing piece of engineering

01:02:58   right I've been reverse engineering this

01:03:00   thing for the last month but they've

01:03:02   taken advantage of it in some very

01:03:03   subtle ways like that how its yeah it's

01:03:06   like it if it again it's that one pixel

01:03:10   can do some pretty amazing things to

01:03:13   your UI yeah used judiciously right you

01:03:16   know you don't want to get carried away

01:03:17   with it because then it's like nobody's

01:03:20   gonna be able to see what you're doing

01:03:21   but well the weirdest did that we're not

01:03:24   weirdest but the thing that blows me

01:03:25   away and it really is noticeable is that

01:03:27   and you know this I mean this is that

01:03:29   it's no surprise that that you're the

01:03:31   one you know the icon factory is the

01:03:34   developer co-developer of excess you

01:03:37   guys ex-cop entirely now I know it's not

01:03:40   always with it is a joint project still

01:03:42   with with we've taken on with ya

01:03:45   Wolfgang auntie it exists off on i'm

01:03:50   doing the primary development on it now

01:03:51   but but it's no surprise that your your

01:03:53   guys are doing this because it's sort of

01:03:55   one of those were building this for

01:03:56   ourselves because of course the name of

01:03:58   the company is the icon factor you guys

01:03:59   still do tons of you know I icon you

01:04:03   guys do artwork you do user interface

01:04:04   artwork right and so what you're

01:04:06   building is a tool for people who sweat

01:04:08   the pixels of beautiful beautiful icons

01:04:11   and user interface elements and buttons

01:04:14   and anything like that or or developers

01:04:17   even white not like it you know somebody

01:04:19   gets a photoshop comp and they've gotta

01:04:21   build a UI

01:04:22   you know we gotta measure color they

01:04:24   going to measure pixel distance and you

01:04:26   know there are a lot of the lot of uses

01:04:28   for the app it and that's what the app

01:04:31   is for is to be if we're going to

01:04:32   insanely insist that every single pixel

01:04:35   of this icon is perfect but we need

01:04:37   software we you know we need special

01:04:40   software to actually magnify it and see

01:04:42   it now it's no surprise that you made it

01:04:45   I your hairlines for your guides and the

01:04:47   new thing it reminds me of I have going

01:04:49   back to my review of the macbook retina

01:04:51   pro whatever the hell it's called when i

01:04:53   got access to a 1200 DPI laser printer

01:04:56   and I'm ya work we started anything was

01:04:58   just as a test we started making

01:05:00   hairlines hours we set them to a quarter

01:05:04   of a point tenth of a point and it was

01:05:06   like a twentieth of a point and you

01:05:07   could see it you could see like a

01:05:09   twentieth of a point airline and we're

01:05:11   like oh my god that's amazing but then

01:05:13   write it was no good for like you eat

01:05:16   you couldn't reproduce it like you

01:05:17   couldn't put a twentieth of a hairline

01:05:19   but you can see it on the output you got

01:05:21   out of the printer but then if you try

01:05:22   to put in newsprint it was gone

01:05:25   I mean it was like you can't yeah yeah

01:05:27   it's it's it's that that's what I think

01:05:31   the apples done is smart if I is it by

01:05:35   default you is on the retina display are

01:05:38   using two pixels right which are easier

01:05:41   to see now they took a lot of different

01:05:45   approaches and i think that the current

01:05:47   one that this is a perfect example where

01:05:49   they learned a lot from iOS right it's

01:05:52   it's you know they originally had a tiff

01:05:56   files which had different scale factors

01:05:58   and then you know it's like because it

01:05:59   they were thinking that ok we can adjust

01:06:01   the scaling to any value right if

01:06:04   somebody wants to see their screen at

01:06:06   one point three times you know we can

01:06:09   have a slider and they'll do that but in

01:06:11   reality people just they want to see the

01:06:14   best they can see right the idea I i

01:06:17   think the older idea the original idea

01:06:19   for independence was about switching

01:06:21   from bitmaps to vector graphics of doing

01:06:23   like you know making it like PDF yeah

01:06:26   that everything would be like PDF and

01:06:27   where when you open up a PDF file in

01:06:30   preview

01:06:32   you can get reasonable font rendering at

01:06:35   eighty-seven percent a hundred and

01:06:36   thirteen percent hundred and fourteen

01:06:38   percent you did it doesn't really matter

01:06:40   because the fonts are all outline you

01:06:43   know they're always they're open type or

01:06:44   truetype or postscript or something like

01:06:46   that so they're going to scale and you

01:06:49   know especially when you blow stuff up

01:06:51   big if you really want to zoom in and

01:06:53   just say what I want to really look at

01:06:55   this capital R and just blow it up real

01:06:58   big it's going to look great

01:06:59   the problem is it is not gonna look

01:07:00   picture-perfect on it's small

01:07:02   yeah that and that is the problem with

01:07:05   people say oh you know wanted the whole

01:07:07   UI you know that the graphics are in a

01:07:11   vector format because they're

01:07:12   unpredictable right sometimes you need

01:07:14   to have that pixel precision in order to

01:07:16   you know pull out some element in the

01:07:19   icon or to you know make sure something

01:07:21   is aligned correctly the it sort of gets

01:07:27   like that that that colored status bar

01:07:29   right designers like predictability

01:07:30   right and control and yeah exactly then

01:07:34   you need it and they need that they they

01:07:36   create great stuff because they have

01:07:38   that control right start taking that

01:07:40   control away from and for fonts it's a

01:07:43   different thing right that the font

01:07:46   designers have always worked with

01:07:49   vectors right there it's and you know

01:07:53   that they

01:07:56   then take some of that work and you know

01:07:57   make pixel-based versions of it in the

01:08:00   screen fonts which in fact it's funny

01:08:02   screen sponsor have been deprecated

01:08:04   right right there they it's pretty clear

01:08:07   that that pixel level control over a

01:08:10   font it's just something it's going the

01:08:13   way of the dodo bird

01:08:14   it doesn't make sense if these

01:08:15   resolutions right now now it

01:08:19   yeah i just made my only complaint with

01:08:26   the the retina displays that the form

01:08:29   factor that it sits in i love my macbook

01:08:32   air

01:08:33   yeah maybe we have reduced commiserated

01:08:35   we cried ourselves a superposition same

01:08:37   yesterday but yeah I wire I desperately

01:08:40   want a rate of retina machine but I

01:08:42   don't want it in a 15-inch macbook pro

01:08:44   but I think that's what I'm gonna have

01:08:46   to do because unless a nice Apple

01:08:49   surprises us with a maybe like a 13-inch

01:08:52   macbook pro by the end of the year i

01:08:54   think im just gonna suck it up and by

01:08:55   the 15 inch and use it as my only

01:08:58   machine

01:08:59   yes it's interesting to me that their

01:09:01   first machine that they put the retina

01:09:05   display and was 15 right you think that

01:09:07   that as far as production yields and you

01:09:09   know similarities with with the ipads

01:09:12   retina display that they would have gone

01:09:14   with a smaller screen right the 11-inch

01:09:16   43 inch or well not 11 because the only

01:09:20   11 is the air and that's that's got

01:09:22   these price points that I don't think

01:09:23   they can hit yet and I don't think they

01:09:25   were all right yeah I'm not scared

01:09:27   you're not gonna have an 11 inch pro I

01:09:29   don't write I think they're going to do

01:09:30   $13 know

01:09:32   nah I mallu little disappointed maybe is

01:09:36   the more the right word that surprised

01:09:38   that they didn't do the 13 and 15 at the

01:09:40   same time and like you said if they can

01:09:42   do the 15 and get yields of these 15

01:09:45   inch screens and certain i should be

01:09:47   able to get the 13 is too but I also do

01:09:50   think though that it speaks to the

01:09:51   15-inch macbook pro as the de facto king

01:09:56   of the max like it may not be the

01:09:59   fastest it's never going to be faster

01:10:00   it's still not faster than that Mac

01:10:02   Pro's even the jokey joke you know

01:10:04   siracusa hate mac pros

01:10:06   at least two WC but of course not i mean

01:10:09   a mac pro is the size of my dorm room

01:10:12   refrigerator i love my mac program got

01:10:16   to 30 inch displays hooked up to it is

01:10:19   anyway it's like real estate city i was

01:10:21   saying it's the king of that Ben acts in

01:10:23   terms of being like the sweet spot

01:10:25   between what put normal people by

01:10:27   various what pros by it's right there

01:10:31   and you know that it kind of makes sense

01:10:33   that it would be the first one to get

01:10:35   this amazing new technology and yeah

01:10:38   read a post like our friend Gus Gus

01:10:41   Mueller and he was saying you know he's

01:10:44   got the macbook pro with retina display

01:10:47   and it's obviously doing acorn

01:10:48   development on it and you know he's got

01:10:51   his back with forest using his mac pro

01:10:53   sitting side-by-side just like me

01:10:55   right right the the retina macbook pro

01:11:00   is faster than my old Mac Pro yeah it's

01:11:04   weird it's just it doesn't have as much

01:11:05   screen real estate and then then my

01:11:07   macpro doesn't need to be super fast i

01:11:09   mean i'm not i'm not building you know

01:11:12   the OS right I'm not build times her you

01:11:15   know

01:11:15   yeah but you guys manager skies you use

01:11:17   xcode really still are and and I've

01:11:20   mentioned is a couple shows you know

01:11:21   that it's fewer and fewer for normal

01:11:23   people are people who aren't there's

01:11:25   fewer and fewer tasks that that that our

01:11:27   cpu constrained I'm yes never see ya

01:11:29   constrain yeah except when safari really

01:11:33   gets bogged down with a ton of tabs you

01:11:35   know sometimes safari will chew up over

01:11:37   a hundred percent of my cpu because I've

01:11:38   got so much going on but you know what

01:11:40   you know what I was sorry had a process

01:11:43   or tab monitor right so you can see

01:11:45   which tabs were using all those seeking

01:11:47   I'm or I wish they'd said anything that

01:11:50   says don't let tabs in the background

01:11:52   have more than us to project exactly

01:11:54   exactly wish that I could just like set

01:11:57   like a nice setting on anything except

01:11:58   the frontmost tab because I don't do

01:12:01   anything i don't use web apps that i

01:12:03   want doing stuff in the background I I

01:12:06   wherever it was like iOS and they just

01:12:08   it just shut background tabs off i read

01:12:11   care the browser is an OS now right we

01:12:14   used to reboot our max now we've reboot

01:12:16   our safari so far as the number one

01:12:18   reason why

01:12:19   my life why I feel like I need a new

01:12:20   faster computer but you guys who use

01:12:23   xcode you realize there are cpu

01:12:25   constrain you guys save time and timers

01:12:27   at times yeah you there are times when

01:12:29   you are significantly more productive

01:12:31   with a faster cpu I mean yes that is

01:12:33   correct that's correct and especially

01:12:35   but the newer knew that the new version

01:12:37   of xcode is it likes to use all those

01:12:41   course

01:12:41   ya know I there are times when out a lot

01:12:44   I've been thinking about a lot and and i

01:12:45   think you said the same thing where it's

01:12:46   like you were backed into this corner

01:12:48   number we've seen the 15-inch macbook

01:12:50   pro with retina display and because

01:12:52   we've seen the retina display we never

01:12:54   want to buy another Mac without a retina

01:12:55   display again but we don't want the

01:12:58   15-inch heavier portable hardware i

01:13:02   would rather have like an imac on my

01:13:04   desk or a mac pro with a cinema retina

01:13:07   display something like that big

01:13:08   standalone retina display and I would

01:13:10   like a little 11 inch retina air or 30

01:13:14   minute there I none of that exists and a

01:13:17   way I don't know what's gonna come first

01:13:18   and I feel like apples pulled in two

01:13:20   different directions

01:13:21   we're with the imax it's it's just their

01:13:24   screens are too big I mean I think it's

01:13:26   too expensive i don't think there's any

01:13:27   feasible i think it's that just they're

01:13:29   just up against the tech where you can't

01:13:30   get 27 inch threaded class I think

01:13:33   that's absolutely i mean look at what

01:13:34   happened with the iphone right it's like

01:13:36   we have a 320 x 480 to 640 x 960 screen

01:13:40   and that was feasible right right and

01:13:43   then a couple years later okay it's

01:13:45   feasible on the the ipad you know much

01:13:48   larger screen i think that was again

01:13:54   back to the you know it's like why

01:13:55   didn't they start with 13 and work their

01:13:57   way up well I think you're right and

01:13:59   that the 15 was sweet spot price wise

01:14:02   machine why is you know a lot of reasons

01:14:06   that they went there but i think the

01:14:08   probably go down a little bit now a to

01:14:11   do some reading 13 but those 27 inch

01:14:14   screens and retina it's going to be

01:14:17   awesome

01:14:18   yeah but that's going to be two maybe

01:14:21   three years from now I think so yeah or

01:14:23   at least a full year out at least but

01:14:26   and then on the other side with the air

01:14:28   they obviously could I mean if they can

01:14:31   do 15 inch then they can do the smaller

01:14:32   one so they could have an 11 inch air

01:14:34   retina screen now but i did I think it's

01:14:37   about the air brand being tied to these

01:14:40   very consumer-friendly pipe price points

01:14:43   that the 11 and Jared starts at nine

01:14:45   ninety nine which is Magic that's a

01:14:47   number that Apple spent like a decade

01:14:49   not be really being that near with a

01:14:52   laptop and just being able to say you

01:14:54   know we've got a 999 laptop that

01:14:57   and unlike the the white plastic I think

01:15:02   they were still called ibooks always

01:15:04   right yeah which hit that the first ones

01:15:06   to hit that 999 but they were like

01:15:08   decidedly less materials right the

01:15:11   materials were right where I don't even

01:15:14   11 inch air and it's in some ways more

01:15:17   beautiful than the pros because it's so

01:15:19   much thinner and lighter and has this

01:15:21   cool teardrop thing and it's just like

01:15:23   you can really just hold it with a

01:15:24   finger and the thumb it actually

01:15:27   arguably is a better design than the

01:15:29   more expensive pros and I feel like that

01:15:31   they're you know that it's just going to

01:15:33   it's a matter of just not of technology

01:15:35   but of costs that they're not going to

01:15:37   recognize the heirs until they can still

01:15:39   keep it in these nine ninety nine eleven

01:15:42   hundred dollar price points

01:15:44   yeah that's not like there goes my what

01:15:46   is going to happen first so right now

01:15:47   I'm actor retina air

01:15:49   I think you're right in the air I think

01:15:52   so too i think though I think they'll be

01:15:53   able to hit those price points first and

01:15:55   maybe even do it and eat a little bit of

01:15:58   the margin for the first year but just

01:16:00   get it out there to do it yeah but how

01:16:02   many of them know they're going to sell

01:16:03   right that thing's gonna sell like

01:16:05   hotcakes

01:16:05   right right it's a good i didn't i skip

01:16:08   the the upgrade for the Sun when they

01:16:11   added the Thunder bold instead of the

01:16:14   original you know displayport stuff and

01:16:16   then she's fine for what I use it for I

01:16:20   don't do my primary development on that

01:16:22   machine but man when that thing's got a

01:16:23   Retina display

01:16:24   I'm first in line right it's just a

01:16:27   different that's a no-brainer upgrade

01:16:28   for me

01:16:30   interesting one of the hard things 4x

01:16:33   scope was making sure that the retina

01:16:36   display works alongside a normal

01:16:39   resolution

01:16:39   display right there like that you know

01:16:42   your magnifying the screen on the retina

01:16:44   display well you can drag that magnifier

01:16:47   over onto another window which is not

01:16:49   retina that's like you gotta there's a

01:16:54   little bit of complication there as far

01:16:55   as making sure you know both the retina

01:16:59   screen and the non retina screen work

01:17:00   together and that that's the way things

01:17:02   are going to be for the next couple

01:17:03   years because nobody window because i

01:17:05   don't use multiple displays anymore but

01:17:07   what happens when you don't go into half

01:17:09   on the one in half on the other the half

01:17:11   that its most on gets the retina tree

01:17:15   that huh or not

01:17:17   right so if it's half more than half

01:17:19   onto the retina screen it it renders

01:17:21   everything retina and then on the normal

01:17:24   screen it's doesn't look quite right

01:17:26   because it's the retina graphics scaled

01:17:31   down to the low half-size basically

01:17:35   conscious fifty percent reduction but

01:17:39   again with a tool like the loop

01:17:41   xscope it's got a seamlessly switch

01:17:46   between those two environments

01:17:49   yeah the same with like the ruler and

01:17:51   all the other stuff that xscope does arm

01:17:54   so who says you don't grow up and use

01:17:59   your math classes

01:18:00   yeah that's very true graphic it's funny

01:18:04   I got a stack of paper here that's got

01:18:06   nothing but rectangles it will you know

01:18:10   stamp see errors and rectangles and told

01:18:12   me that it's all just wrecked right just

01:18:15   simple rectangles mine have square

01:18:16   corners though it's all very obvious you

01:18:22   guys designed icon factory design the

01:18:24   new microsoft logo know now square

01:18:29   corners we that the last thing we did

01:18:31   for them were the the icons for for

01:18:34   vista then they i forgot that you guys

01:18:38   did that that was a big deal and that

01:18:40   the folder standing on their side that

01:18:42   was a long and involved design process

01:18:45   at the

01:18:48   the microsoft is is has gotten smart

01:18:52   right there doing a lot more their

01:18:53   design in house they realize that the

01:18:56   design is is a competitive tool you know

01:19:02   when i'm down to play from Apple's

01:19:04   playbook

01:19:05   you know what I I joke and there but i

01:19:09   don't mean this i don't know i don't buy

01:19:11   into the argument that round wrecks are

01:19:13   inherently better than square corners i

01:19:16   think you know there's room in design

01:19:18   for all sorts of stuff i think that

01:19:20   they're owning I think Microsoft is

01:19:22   owning square corners

01:19:25   yeah and I think that's kind of a cool

01:19:26   thing to own that they've they've eked

01:19:28   out a very distinctive aesthetic and it

01:19:32   worked for since it's consistent it

01:19:34   works both as a screen you I and as a

01:19:37   branding you I this square corner

01:19:40   rectangles and squares thing I i think

01:19:45   it's a powerful visual brand I honestly

01:19:47   I i think that it's by far and away the

01:19:49   best user interface branding ever

01:19:53   yeah the only other one that was good

01:19:55   was the windows 95 1 which they just

01:19:57   ripped off from next

01:19:58   yeah the the windows 8 I think it looks

01:20:02   great i have to be honest i have not

01:20:05   used it

01:20:06   yeah but it's not just a windows

01:20:07   8windows AAA III thought your sleeve

01:20:10   oh yeah the the bx metro yeah you are i

01:20:14   I'm just going to keep calling it metro

01:20:16   to hell with them because it's a weird

01:20:18   thing at the because you know what I'm

01:20:19   so sick of why did they think about her

01:20:21   I don't want to sit there and write

01:20:22   formerly known as we metro or the

01:20:25   windows and I'll you i'm just going to

01:20:26   call it metro and that's their problem

01:20:28   you know I mean that's right yeah the is

01:20:31   great at the yeah it's consistent it's I

01:20:36   think the thought the biggest problem

01:20:38   we're going to have are the people who

01:20:40   have been using windows since windows 95

01:20:43   going oh my god this is different

01:20:46   yep its way really different

01:20:50   it is so much recently here and it's

01:20:52   going to make people so much angrier

01:20:54   than you know it was only on the windows

01:20:56   RT forearm on

01:20:58   his tablet devices as apple style the

01:21:02   equivalent of the ipad 2 apple a new

01:21:04   thing and it's you know it'll

01:21:08   interrelated you can sync it you can

01:21:09   dock it will talk to exchange and all

01:21:10   this stuff but if you just buy a dell

01:21:13   shitbox pc and install the windows on it

01:21:17   it's going to look like your windows

01:21:18   desktop and have a start menu down there

01:21:22   I say we wrap it up i think we've been

01:21:26   on for a long time

01:21:27   Craig Hockenberry thank you for being

01:21:28   here you're the best