The Talk Show

16: Big in Indonesia, with Om Malik


00:00:00   we were at the Foo Fighters concert

00:00:01   today that was fun i didn't know who

00:00:03   fighters were you really didn't I did I

00:00:07   i would just like who are these people

00:00:09   I'm so used to you know some of the

00:00:11   Steve Jobs people like norah jones and

00:00:14   John Myatt was like who's van like I

00:00:18   didn't know that was just gonna tell you

00:00:20   how old I am

00:00:21   hmm now that was a big one for me and

00:00:23   i've i've come to a bunch of these were

00:00:24   those guys and I like john meyer john

00:00:27   mayer how do you pronounce it mayor he's

00:00:28   John Mayer the CEO of Yahoo is marissa

00:00:31   meyer right even though they spell it

00:00:32   the same yeah I I appreciate him i do

00:00:36   think he's like amazingly gifted

00:00:37   guitarist like just amazing but I don't

00:00:41   really love his music foo fighters is

00:00:42   actually one of my favorite band so i

00:00:44   was really kind of like blown away so

00:00:46   they just really want to make you happy

00:00:48   yeah now you know what I think it was to

00:00:49   make my wife jealous because this was

00:00:51   like the first time she's not really

00:00:53   into all this stuff like maybe she wants

00:00:54   a new iphone but she doesn't really care

00:00:55   she's not really all that excited about

00:00:57   apple and now today's the first time

00:00:58   where she's like I think she was pretty

00:01:01   jealous like i was there and she wasn't

00:01:03   well I you know a lot of people enjoyed

00:01:06   it

00:01:06   no I was just reading that's all

00:01:09   so I'm here today joined by ohm Alec

00:01:12   what's your title what is your title

00:01:15   I'm just the founder of key go no title

00:01:17   no title

00:01:18   you're just don't ya oh and out you know

00:01:21   one of things I want to talk to you

00:01:22   about is you have now you it is your

00:01:24   name your name is own it's just spelled

00:01:26   om but that's your Twitter handle ya biz

00:01:28   aren't you get a lot of garbage just

00:01:30   because it's only two characters and all

00:01:32   you have no idea i am big in Indonesia

00:01:35   it's just like I have no idea what it

00:01:39   means in the language they use their but

00:01:41   it's like a very common phrase and like

00:01:44   my my @ replies are pretty useless at

00:01:48   this point i right because I forget who

00:01:51   I know who has there's one guy I know

00:01:52   who has one of the rare one character

00:01:56   twitter names kevin chang yeah because

00:02:01   he's got @k right right right and his

00:02:04   his replies feed is it it makes your

00:02:09   head brain almost blow up because it's

00:02:10   just the most random gibberish it looks

00:02:12   like somebody

00:02:13   their cat was standing on a keyboard I

00:02:16   should send you some of the screenshots

00:02:18   i'll have to look for it

00:02:20   yeah so own last week before we get to

00:02:23   the apple stuff that we're at the apple

00:02:24   event were recording live or not live

00:02:27   really but together in the same room

00:02:28   which is unusual for the talk show

00:02:30   usually I do this over skype we're here

00:02:32   together in the beautiful mule radio

00:02:36   network studio here in San Francisco

00:02:39   pretty awesome it is it's actually a

00:02:42   very Swank setup but before we get to

00:02:45   today's stuff I want to talk about last

00:02:46   week now last week the three things that

00:02:49   I thought I could think of there was a

00:02:50   motorola had an announcement and to me

00:02:54   that's sort of like in hindsight so like

00:02:55   I who cares really i mean is just any of

00:02:58   those phones memorable i don't think so

00:03:00   i don't even know why some why they

00:03:03   bother are times i think they should

00:03:05   focus on one or two things instead of

00:03:07   trying to do too many things all these

00:03:10   company just do so much like four

00:03:13   without any idea why they're doing it

00:03:17   what is their market watch their

00:03:19   approach it just as frustrating to see

00:03:21   really smart people make bad decisions

00:03:25   next up speaking of bad decisions

00:03:28   nokia mm same day and that stuff broke

00:03:34   last week while i had John Smoltz on the

00:03:36   air we kinda are known as the amazon

00:03:37   stuff that broken while we're on the air

00:03:39   but anyway nokia announced their stuff

00:03:40   two new phones and really it first

00:03:46   everybody had a thing like well what's

00:03:47   the shipping date and what's the price

00:03:49   and then as like the days went on a kind

00:03:52   of became clear that they don't even

00:03:53   know i think the biggest sign for a

00:03:56   company in distress and a product which

00:03:59   is not going to work is when they don't

00:04:01   let you touch it right like if you have

00:04:04   a real product which is going to ship

00:04:06   people can buy you let people check it

00:04:10   out people use it they want to let

00:04:12   people do it which tells me it is not

00:04:15   happening anytime soon

00:04:16   and guess what in announcing this

00:04:18   whatever little sales of windows phones

00:04:21   they were going to have they've killed

00:04:23   right it really just seems bizarre

00:04:27   like as bad as it would be if you were

00:04:29   nokia and your phone isn't ready yet

00:04:32   here on sep tember 12 2012 your phone is

00:04:37   not ready at whether it's the software

00:04:39   the hardware everybody's not quite ready

00:04:40   and you have to sit here and watch apple

00:04:42   unveiled the new iphone 5 and start

00:04:46   selling it two days from now and

00:04:48   shipping at nine days from now and watch

00:04:51   all these sales rack up and you've got

00:04:52   to sit there and wait until your thing

00:04:54   is ready

00:04:55   I'd still would be better than what they

00:04:57   did which is they made an announcement

00:04:59   which did get a lot of attention but I i

00:05:02   don't see if they're not going on sale

00:05:04   until november i don't see how that it

00:05:06   just seems like a disaster you called it

00:05:08   i think you call it a shitshow yeah

00:05:10   pretty much

00:05:10   that's exactly what it did i do think

00:05:13   that Nokia as a company whose expertise

00:05:18   I've covered Nokia's and maybe 96 and

00:05:22   like very faithfully I've always enjoyed

00:05:24   their products love their phones

00:05:27   I used to be the only reporter out there

00:05:29   talking about Nicki Evans the the razor

00:05:33   was the shit right and I always felt as

00:05:37   a company they knew how to make great

00:05:39   products they knew they had a great

00:05:42   logistics in a team then you have to put

00:05:45   products together get them out to market

00:05:47   in time built to scale

00:05:49   I don't know what happened ever since

00:05:51   the new CEO came Stephen Elop the

00:05:54   company's lost the ability to do just

00:05:56   that

00:05:57   forget breathing the new software I can

00:05:59   understand having crisis of confidence

00:06:01   and your operating system in your

00:06:04   product a unit roadmap but how can you

00:06:07   not be able to ship the only thing you

00:06:10   do you only make phone then you can get

00:06:12   them out on time I mean somebody should

00:06:14   be fired and it should start at the CEO

00:06:17   and then the boat like I just think the

00:06:19   whole board has to go because they're

00:06:21   letting this screen and nonsense go on

00:06:23   with an iconic brand of our time I love

00:06:26   nokia and to see you die the way it is

00:06:29   dying

00:06:30   it just is unreal the last time I saw

00:06:33   brand like this dye digital em remember

00:06:36   them

00:06:36   yeah what a great laptops they used to

00:06:39   take nobody bought them but it's the

00:06:42   same thing with me and my opinion and

00:06:45   then they got caught faking up the

00:06:48   photos and videos from the device now

00:06:51   and all kind of it is not excusable but

00:06:54   it makes sense it's because the software

00:06:56   wasn't ready

00:06:57   you know so they had to make these

00:06:58   promotional videos before the software

00:07:00   but the whole thing is that they've

00:07:02   rushed this announcement to the degree

00:07:04   that they somehow convince themselves

00:07:05   that it was okay to shoot a demo video

00:07:10   showing the image stabilization of the

00:07:12   video not using the actual phone itself

00:07:16   you know because it's it's it's like

00:07:19   that one bad decision to will come hell

00:07:22   or high water we're going to announce

00:07:23   that the first week of September whether

00:07:25   it's ready or not leads to all of these

00:07:27   other problems as a direct result like

00:07:30   once you start with that that rotten

00:07:32   decision now you've got phones that you

00:07:34   don't let the press handle at the event

00:07:37   you-you-you fake the camera stills and

00:07:42   videos you've got a ship date that's two

00:07:46   months out at maybe if they're lucky

00:07:49   so the way I think about John I think

00:07:53   it's they're working from position of

00:07:56   weakness right they're always playing

00:07:58   catch-up for him so they never really

00:08:00   will catch up

00:08:01   I think that's the problem they have

00:08:04   done everything possible to try and

00:08:07   catch up with apple and android and they

00:08:09   haven't been able to and that's just as

00:08:11   a problem right like instead of trying

00:08:14   to like they're they have a lot of great

00:08:18   people at nokia I still talk to many of

00:08:21   the employees there's a lot of smart

00:08:23   engineers and they're smart software

00:08:25   people smart you I people i love many of

00:08:28   the people i know that unfortunately the

00:08:31   company's unable to leapfrog like its

00:08:34   own you know short come i think it just

00:08:37   is now we hit a point of just like it

00:08:40   doesn't know how to go forward I think

00:08:43   you just is stuck and like you said it's

00:08:45   really it just comes down to simple

00:08:47   execution that they they no longer seem

00:08:49   able to ship a phone on time

00:08:51   and and say we will about samsung

00:08:52   samsung has come from a position where

00:08:57   when the iphone ship five years ago was

00:08:59   not one of the leading phone makers

00:09:01   maybe by numbers but they weren't really

00:09:02   a known for smartphones certainly yeah i

00:09:05   think that the like somebody showed on

00:09:06   Twitter the other day that the picture

00:09:08   Steve Jobs showed of here's what today

00:09:11   this is five years ago 2007 here's what

00:09:13   today's leading smartphones look like

00:09:16   and they all look the same and it was

00:09:18   the Motorola was at the q i think i'm in

00:09:22   the queue or the blackjack but was a

00:09:23   motorola a palm a blackberry and a nokia

00:09:29   those were the four and think about

00:09:31   what's happening to all for those

00:09:33   companies in the last five years palms

00:09:35   out of business

00:09:36   they're gone I rim is circling the

00:09:40   toilet

00:09:41   motorola got sold to google I mean and

00:09:46   really saw its you know leadership it in

00:09:49   the handset numbers really diminish I

00:09:51   mean they're really know where I mean

00:09:53   they're not even the leading android

00:09:54   handset maker I don't think it's even

00:09:57   close and then nokia is the last one and

00:09:59   boy it really seems like you know the

00:10:01   only reason that they're not as in bad

00:10:03   position as the other three is that they

00:10:05   were so far ahead they had so much

00:10:08   farther to fall so i think the the the

00:10:12   game of you know smartphones is that a

00:10:15   scale right like Apple s scale and

00:10:18   Samsung as scale because they have scale

00:10:21   they can introduce interesting complex

00:10:23   technologies into their devices make

00:10:26   them interesting and sell to the people

00:10:29   and still make money whereas smaller

00:10:32   companies are always working on

00:10:34   razor-thin margins which which is really

00:10:37   hard for them because they're always all

00:10:39   these little guys are in position of

00:10:41   weakness right like Samsung at scale

00:10:43   because their own so much after the

00:10:46   supply chain they they make the chips

00:10:49   that you know the the screens that flash

00:10:52   memory the whole nine yards right so

00:10:55   they can bring scale there an apple as

00:10:57   Bart the future supplies or so they have

00:11:01   skills whereas all the other guys they

00:11:02   don't have scale

00:11:03   if they don't have a scale they don't

00:11:05   have margin if you don't have margins

00:11:07   you're not gonna be in the business I

00:11:08   mean it just is there you know they're

00:11:10   all on the long road to nowhere

00:11:12   that's that's the bottom line right now

00:11:14   and I think Nokia was the one company

00:11:16   that really we should maybe even should

00:11:18   still today being a position to have

00:11:20   managed that sort of scale because

00:11:21   they've shipped i think literally in

00:11:24   their history billions of funds i think

00:11:26   they've shipped over a billion phones

00:11:28   I mean of some sort of you know some

00:11:29   kind of mobile phones but maybe they're

00:11:31   not smart phones but they know how to

00:11:33   ship it scale people always part of them

00:11:35   as a phone company they're actually a

00:11:37   logistics company said they had the best

00:11:39   logistics amongst all mobile phone

00:11:42   makers that's why the event but they got

00:11:44   addicted to making those cheap feature

00:11:47   phones so much right that they forgot

00:11:49   where the money comes from

00:11:51   they just looked at the wrong numbers

00:11:52   this is the classic spreadsheet

00:11:55   jockeying which happens to companies i I

00:11:59   just feel bad like there's just so many

00:12:01   great people on the upside all these

00:12:04   great engineers are leaving nokia and

00:12:06   starting companies and thinking

00:12:07   innovative things so that might actually

00:12:10   help our their home country a lot more

00:12:12   in the future right like maybe they're

00:12:14   worth more

00:12:15   just as the talent broken at ya doing

00:12:18   new things I think finland has some of

00:12:20   the best engineers so you could see some

00:12:23   interesting innovation coming out of

00:12:25   there i just heard from somebody who's

00:12:28   making some kind of an electric racing

00:12:31   car and they're from being a friendly

00:12:33   and they're going to come see me in a

00:12:34   couple of weeks pretty fun to see what

00:12:36   they're doing

00:12:37   I think it and you know one of the

00:12:39   things with its fun about getting

00:12:41   together for an event like this when I

00:12:42   fly in to town I get to see a bunch of

00:12:45   people i don't see on a regular basis

00:12:46   face-to-face is you know we just started

00:12:48   geeking out talking you know phones

00:12:50   phone stuff for you know whatever's on

00:12:52   our minds and i'll tell you what i mean

00:12:53   everybody has talked to today I mean

00:12:55   it's almost unanimous they'll say

00:12:57   everybody feels bad about Nokia's future

00:13:00   and feels that they've really botched

00:13:02   the this year's new Lumias these that

00:13:05   they do know that the timing is just off

00:13:07   they botched it but everybody it's

00:13:09   almost unanimous agrees that they're the

00:13:11   only company that is competing with

00:13:13   apple in terms of quality of fit and

00:13:15   finish for the devices that

00:13:17   before you even turn it on and talk

00:13:19   about the software just the phone is off

00:13:22   it in your hand it's arguably be you

00:13:24   know as good as any phone in the market

00:13:25   always has to be right every i still

00:13:28   have all my nokia phones

00:13:30   I don't want to throw each one of them

00:13:32   away like I love they did the port this

00:13:34   still work like nothing has gone wrong

00:13:37   yeah you don't have one of them you gave

00:13:38   me you sent me 70 and several years ago

00:13:41   I never sent it back to you

00:13:42   that's okay you can have very consented

00:13:45   to the cellphone museum or something and

00:13:49   then the other big announcement last

00:13:50   week was amazon now there's a company

00:13:52   who I think I really think that they

00:13:54   have their act together and you wrote

00:13:55   something nice on

00:13:57   I like the pc wrote on your your own dot

00:14:00   co website which is amazingly short URL

00:14:05   yeah it's kind of awesome but you said

00:14:08   it was pretty short but you more or less

00:14:09   just said that you think Jeff Jeff Bezos

00:14:11   is the the heir-apparent to steve jobs

00:14:15   in the industry

00:14:16   it was a little uncomfortable thing to

00:14:18   write right you know I was like a virgin

00:14:20   you know having being an Apple watch her

00:14:24   for a long time I felt a little queasy

00:14:27   writing that because you know there is

00:14:29   one steve jobs but i think there is only

00:14:32   one chef measles there's very few people

00:14:35   like him who are willing to be wrong in

00:14:38   public I steve was willing to take

00:14:42   chances and that's what made him steal

00:14:45   like you know yes he was a perfectionist

00:14:47   and all those things and Jeff is willing

00:14:50   to take chances on things which may look

00:14:53   completely outrageous like you know you

00:14:56   know seven years ago

00:14:58   amazon web services from amazon cloud

00:15:00   services to make much sense to a lot of

00:15:03   people but it made sense to him and his

00:15:06   team and look how they're changing the

00:15:08   economics of startups and same thing is

00:15:11   with kindle when the kindle came out the

00:15:13   idea of like who wants to read the

00:15:15   e-book readers were like so maligned at

00:15:17   that time right and the cab trying and

00:15:20   trying to the garden right and i think

00:15:21   this is what I like about them is that

00:15:24   they believe in something in the long

00:15:26   term

00:15:27   they actually try i wish they made more

00:15:29   money like Apple but hey that's another

00:15:32   story for another day

00:15:34   yeah they've obviously got some kind of

00:15:35   they've got a plan in that regard I

00:15:37   don't know what it I don't see it but

00:15:39   they've you know they're clear

00:15:40   I guess the way I put it is that they're

00:15:44   not making that much in profit but they

00:15:47   don't seem to be trying to make much in

00:15:49   profit it's not like they're trying and

00:15:50   falling short it seems like they're kind

00:15:52   of shooting for this growth and revenue

00:15:56   growth and kind of just get enough

00:16:00   profit to keep it in the black all right

00:16:01   that seems to be their goal and that's

00:16:03   what they're hitting it seems like a

00:16:04   weird strategy to me but it does it

00:16:08   doesn't seem like they're failing right

00:16:09   you know i like what you don't like

00:16:11   which was like way which is actually

00:16:14   pretty insightful that that Jeff Bezos

00:16:19   is special mostly because he's not

00:16:22   trying to reach steve jobs but I think

00:16:25   like a lot of people forget that being

00:16:27   original is much harder than being a

00:16:30   copy guy right like you're never gonna

00:16:32   be the next Bob Dylan if you're trying

00:16:34   to make your voice sound like Bob Dylan

00:16:35   like you've got to make your voice sound

00:16:38   as unique as bob dylan's you know this

00:16:41   it's the only way and so it's a weird

00:16:43   way like the only way to be like steve

00:16:45   jobs is to not be like steve jobs but to

00:16:48   have his sort of aspects of his

00:16:52   personality like that you see these

00:16:54   things that nobody else sees and you

00:16:55   don't care if everybody thinks them

00:16:57   they're wrong if you think they're right

00:16:58   you're just going to pursue it

00:17:00   dogged Lee until you get it done and I

00:17:03   totally see that with with basis i also

00:17:05   like agree with what you say where he's

00:17:07   not afraid to be wrong and if he is he's

00:17:11   gonna fix it or try to fix it at least

00:17:13   and not just go into denial and pretend

00:17:18   he's not wrong so I thought for example

00:17:19   with the kindle fires last week watching

00:17:21   after having watched the announcement

00:17:23   event I almost didn't say was wrong but

00:17:26   I kind of think he did it seem like

00:17:28   maybe he took the criticism to heart

00:17:29   that the last year's kindle fire was

00:17:31   really rather poorly reviewed as it just

00:17:34   as a gadget in terms of the interface

00:17:36   and and how laggy the screen is

00:17:39   and so I feel like he really emphasize

00:17:43   that a couple times in the any event

00:17:45   last week where he said last year we

00:17:47   tried to be the best tablet at a certain

00:17:49   price this year we're trying to be the

00:17:51   best tablet at any price

00:17:53   you know I never really you know they

00:17:54   put the work in and put in a really nice

00:17:56   IPS display with a really nice at least

00:18:00   retina dish quality resolution he said

00:18:05   you know they know you they said the

00:18:07   event that the likeness is not there but

00:18:09   I saw it you know seems like the reviews

00:18:11   are little mix from the people who had

00:18:13   hands-on but at least they're trying

00:18:14   right i mean I i played with it for

00:18:17   about 20 hours i had it for three days

00:18:20   the new one the kindle fire that sent

00:18:23   you one but another i wrote a review as

00:18:26   well I'm actually a pretty balanced view

00:18:29   in my in my opinion had I never used an

00:18:32   ipad and had an ipad not existed it

00:18:35   would actually be okay device to buy for

00:18:38   me i'm not talking about other people i

00:18:40   I am so I I you I use iPad as my primary

00:18:44   computer so imma just a little bit

00:18:47   biased in that sense however there's a

00:18:50   lot of challenges the silk browser isn't

00:18:52   up to snuff there is a lag it mean and

00:18:56   it's perceptible but like the email

00:18:59   client is like pretty shoddy however if

00:19:02   you are

00:19:03   amazon digital content buyer like I am

00:19:06   man that thing is pretty good like you

00:19:09   know the books are quick to you know

00:19:11   access amazon cloud player is pretty

00:19:14   awesome the amazon prime is with videos

00:19:17   is great like I'll all those things are

00:19:20   great it's an easy to hold in your hand

00:19:22   you know it the battery life is pretty

00:19:24   decent the Wi-Fi is pretty decent

00:19:26   however it i just feel that for all

00:19:30   those purposes $200 is just too much i

00:19:34   think they should be at giving it away

00:19:35   to people who have amazon prime for free

00:19:38   right

00:19:39   I wonder if I wonder how strong and

00:19:42   where they must have thought about that

00:19:43   or at least at least offered it at a

00:19:47   profound discount too and I know that he

00:19:49   said explicitly during the event and

00:19:51   even in

00:19:52   you afterwards basis that they reject

00:19:55   that razors and blade business model

00:19:58   where you lose money on a selling the

00:20:00   thing up front and then make it up by

00:20:01   selling you know the blades and serrated

00:20:04   in the tech industry that's the printing

00:20:06   model right you sell the printer at a

00:20:08   ridiculously low cost and then you make

00:20:10   all of your money by selling

00:20:11   ridiculously overpriced in container

00:20:14   I mean HP even sells paper i'm out i

00:20:18   wonder how much paper h peace sells but

00:20:20   by selling the stuff that you put in the

00:20:22   printer and he says that they reject

00:20:25   that so that they price things to the I

00:20:27   I get the feeling like what he's saying

00:20:29   is that in terms of like when you buy a

00:20:32   kindle fire from amazon they make about

00:20:35   as much money on it as they do when they

00:20:37   sell you anything on amazon a little bit

00:20:39   little bit of profit right well I

00:20:42   thought you know it would make sense

00:20:44   that if you buy a lot of books like I do

00:20:47   by a lot of books from them and it would

00:20:49   make sense for them to make me more

00:20:52   addicted to buying books on kindle fire

00:20:55   by creating an even more addictive

00:20:58   buying experience and I think if they

00:21:00   kill their business model around that

00:21:03   this thing could actually be pretty ok

00:21:06   for them in my opinion I do like what

00:21:08   they've done so far though I you know I

00:21:10   wouldn't dismiss it

00:21:11   I have a lot of respect for that company

00:21:13   they haven't copied Apple they haven't

00:21:17   just followed the android heard they've

00:21:20   done their own think and I think that is

00:21:22   that has to be larger you have to

00:21:24   applaud people who are trying to do

00:21:27   something different and on top of that

00:21:29   they're actually putting a product out

00:21:32   in the market which can actually buy and

00:21:33   not not like talk about it that's it

00:21:37   it's so funny that we have to praise

00:21:38   them for the hell yea me I it so it's so

00:21:42   frustrating as that for the longest time

00:21:44   I've always wondered like why do you

00:21:47   call your event a launch event when the

00:21:49   product is not in the market like just

00:21:51   say we are announcing this product

00:21:53   that's it end of story is just it's like

00:21:56   it's my pet peeve units been and it's

00:21:59   not since today like almost in 15 years

00:22:01   I've always wondered like okay maybe my

00:22:05   understanding of English language is

00:22:07   very literal but that doesn't make any

00:22:09   sense to me right and it almost comes

00:22:11   back to the literal meaning of the verb

00:22:14   launch right where if if there's like a

00:22:16   ship and you're going to have that

00:22:17   ceremony where you break the champagne

00:22:19   bottle against it and like people want

00:22:21   to see the boat going down water nothing

00:22:23   you know if it's shrinking it's okay or

00:22:25   like a launch event for like NASA you

00:22:27   know it's like people want the rocket

00:22:29   ship to go up in the air that you don't

00:22:30   want to see just well you know be ready

00:22:32   in a couple of yeah i will let you know

00:22:34   thanks for coming now yeah alright now

00:22:37   alright let me away you know one more

00:22:40   thing on amazon is is the other thing

00:22:42   that struck me and as the week is gone

00:22:44   on it really seems and today's apple

00:22:46   event sort of clarified it even further

00:22:48   with the second half of the event today

00:22:50   is just how us-centric amazon's

00:22:54   approaches at least for now

00:22:57   like they really only sell the candles

00:23:00   in the u.s. especially the kindle fire

00:23:03   and the reason why and at this baffled

00:23:06   me last year I was definitely lost I

00:23:07   just thought maybe they just didn't have

00:23:09   their act together but now I see that

00:23:11   it's it's it's not because the they

00:23:14   don't want to sell the kindle or kindle

00:23:17   fire to anybody they only want to sell

00:23:18   the kindle fire to someone who is likely

00:23:21   to buy a lot of music and books and TV

00:23:24   shows and so if you live in a country

00:23:26   where they don't have movies and TV

00:23:28   shows they don't want to stay won't even

00:23:29   say the device because they're not going

00:23:31   to make money i do think this set of

00:23:33   Kindo readers across the world yeah the

00:23:36   reader i guess they do and I guess

00:23:37   that's because the the right to books

00:23:40   are so much less entered tangled with

00:23:43   stupid bullshit and laws as movies and

00:23:46   music music and movies are our way more

00:23:49   region control i mean just think about

00:23:52   the way DVD's work with the stupid the

00:23:55   the region coding so you can even play

00:23:58   the same DVD in one country is another

00:24:00   the one thing you know i will upload

00:24:02   amazon for that they were not a gadget

00:24:05   company 34 years ago maybe five years

00:24:09   ago now there are full-on gadget company

00:24:11   and kind of pretty telling how much they

00:24:15   have some other cool stuff you know what

00:24:17   they're working on down and who

00:24:18   patina yeah and they also a couple of

00:24:23   years ago we're not really a digital

00:24:25   content company either i mean they

00:24:27   really started as I mean I I'm soul i

00:24:29   still think of them as starting as a

00:24:31   bookstore that all they sold was books

00:24:33   but just brought a little bit they

00:24:36   started as an online retailer warehouses

00:24:39   full of physical goods and a website

00:24:42   where you could find them by them easily

00:24:45   and review them and then you know two

00:24:49   days later is knock on your door and

00:24:51   there's the thing but i'm i'm curious

00:24:57   how hard they're working on expanding

00:25:00   the movies and TV shows and stuff like

00:25:02   that to more countries like Apple has I

00:25:05   i would think that they must but maybe

00:25:07   that's just a much harder problem that

00:25:09   i'm thinking i think it's a pretty

00:25:11   complex problem and they are there are

00:25:14   they are in UK now so and they are in

00:25:16   Europe they're making headway there

00:25:18   they're competing with netflix in the

00:25:20   inn in Europe but it's not that easy i

00:25:23   mean we like to think it's very easy but

00:25:25   the right so now it's a mess and you

00:25:27   know i would i would give them full

00:25:29   marks for trying and you know in a year

00:25:31   the this is the great thing about Amazon

00:25:35   the Amazon of today is going to be very

00:25:37   different you know from the Amazon off a

00:25:40   year ago and next year it will be an

00:25:41   entirely different thing I think that's

00:25:44   one of the things which i like about

00:25:45   that companies to lick the ability to

00:25:47   constantly change and totally see that

00:25:50   when i take a break right here and I'm

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00:27:18   are you reading that our trip now I'm

00:27:21   not right now i can get in ok I'm just

00:27:23   joking

00:27:24   no agent maybe they should call amazon

00:27:26   that may be but i'm i'm buying buying

00:27:28   clothes from there I am I haven't had

00:27:31   died i'm not wearing the shirt though

00:27:32   they may close for like slightly larger

00:27:35   gentlemen I i don't know i bet that they

00:27:39   have a wide range of side outside you

00:27:41   know I'm just worried about my size

00:27:43   oh I'm you look great well my shirt's I

00:27:47   don't fit into those slim card church

00:27:48   like you do huh

00:27:51   now better have something yeah but you'd

00:27:54   like it you're very stylish man i'll

00:27:56   definitely check them up

00:27:57   yeah you're a watch guy to I am I my

00:28:00   love watches

00:28:00   yeah you always have an interesting

00:28:02   watch yeah i like i like you a little

00:28:05   life you need to have a little analog

00:28:08   you know we had to digital in our lives

00:28:10   yeah I where I were an analog watch as

00:28:12   well I like our traditional stuff I like

00:28:14   people to make things with hands and you

00:28:17   know the craftsmanship is it something

00:28:19   we need to celebrate in our society we

00:28:21   just start like so mechanized and so

00:28:24   mass-produced that we don't appreciate

00:28:26   the little things people do their hand I

00:28:30   i totally agree with that I feel like

00:28:34   it's like everything like i always feel

00:28:36   like it's at the extremes that

00:28:38   everything is most interesting at the

00:28:40   biggest or the smallest you know the

00:28:43   newest stuff the oldest stuff that's

00:28:45   where stuff

00:28:45   is most interesting and I feel like

00:28:47   that's a good point I I kind of feel

00:28:49   like the stuff like the iphone where

00:28:50   there's like 20 million of them on a

00:28:52   ship airplane coming out of China that's

00:28:55   interesting but like a watch that was

00:28:57   put together by hand

00:28:59   you know by a guy just putting all these

00:29:02   putting this whole thing together piece

00:29:04   by piece that's fascinating to III go

00:29:07   look for all vintage watches I like I

00:29:10   spend a lot of time looking for that

00:29:12   that's one like my one like I gave up

00:29:14   smoking drinking so i gotta do something

00:29:18   and I have some kind of everybody needs

00:29:20   advice like yeah so

00:29:21   antique watches what I look for ya so

00:29:25   let's let's get into today's apple event

00:29:27   and while we're talking about watches

00:29:29   let's do it in in sort of the opposite

00:29:31   order Apple did where I the one day I

00:29:34   came away thinking and I don't I can't

00:29:36   ever recall an apple event that was

00:29:37   point like this where it really was to

00:29:40   events it was two very distinct events

00:29:43   separated way like a half time where the

00:29:45   first event was iphone 5 with Phil

00:29:48   Schiller and Scott Forstall and then

00:29:51   that was it and actually almost felt

00:29:53   like it was over missouri mo I thought

00:29:55   maybe it was over I really did when Tim

00:29:56   Cook came back out and then he says now

00:30:01   we're going to talk about ipods and

00:30:02   music and jaws comes out and Eddy Cue

00:30:06   come out and it was like a second event

00:30:08   so let's do that one first let's do the

00:30:09   ipod and itunes in the music stuff first

00:30:12   because one of the casualties of today's

00:30:18   announcement the new ipods is that whole

00:30:20   market of using an ipod nano as a

00:30:23   wristwatch because they've gotten rid of

00:30:25   that that that sort of watch sighs nano

00:30:28   I don't know that that was a very big

00:30:32   market I think it was a big market they

00:30:34   wouldn't have gotten rid of it but it

00:30:36   it's one thing like a hawk couple people

00:30:39   cooks filing out of the the hands-on

00:30:41   area like everybody sort of had a wait a

00:30:42   minute isn't this this means all those

00:30:44   wristwatch things are dead are I would

00:30:47   say there's a premium on them now

00:30:49   mmm think in those terms that's the

00:30:51   thing with watches the older they get

00:30:53   the raider they become more expensive

00:30:55   they get so maybe you should run to the

00:30:58   idea

00:30:59   store and get a couple of those nanos

00:31:00   did you did you ever try wearing an Anna

00:31:02   was watching that it's too digital from

00:31:04   right like I'm not like i have enough

00:31:06   digital watches around me that I don't

00:31:09   need another one on my wrist

00:31:10   i bought the one on Kickstarter I think

00:31:13   it was the tick-tock na and i bought it

00:31:17   knowing that I wasn't gonna like it

00:31:19   i bought it because i wanted i thought

00:31:20   it was a great idea and i just love the

00:31:22   idea of a couple of guys making her own

00:31:24   hardware and you know I just like I just

00:31:27   love the night sometimes I back

00:31:29   Kickstarter projects that i don't really

00:31:30   want myself but I just want them to

00:31:32   succeed that's why did and I I tried it

00:31:35   and it's you know it failed for the

00:31:37   exact reasons that I thought it would is

00:31:39   I can't stand having a watch where the

00:31:42   time isn't always displayed you have to

00:31:43   hit a button to wake it up it's like

00:31:45   that defeats the whole point if I was

00:31:47   willing to do that i would just take my

00:31:48   phone out of my pocket and hit a button

00:31:50   which is what everybody who doesn't wear

00:31:52   a watch does to find out what time is

00:31:53   right I i do the same thing and

00:31:56   Kickstarter I just support a lot of

00:31:58   projects in a most like sometimes I look

00:32:02   for electronic music project gadgets

00:32:04   whatever it's just I kind of feel it's

00:32:06   the same thing i have about our

00:32:08   traditional stuff that is very few

00:32:10   people who are very creative in this

00:32:12   world we have to support them and you

00:32:15   know I had that watch them do the trick

00:32:17   for me i dunno people bought them like

00:32:20   in by the Lord's and and i love the tik

00:32:23   tok guys they're pretty creative punch

00:32:25   card Wilson is the name I think he's

00:32:28   just such a great designer like that

00:32:31   product he did was just awesome

00:32:33   yeah I don't know I think maybe maybe it

00:32:37   can come back after if you you know few

00:32:39   years they can bring it back that the

00:32:42   ipod nano or something

00:32:43   I know there's a lot of talk about the

00:32:46   variable in a wrist computing and like I

00:32:49   just wonder if like we might see you

00:32:52   come back and I partner i wonder i don't

00:32:55   know i see i think that was the other

00:32:56   problem the other fundamental problem

00:32:58   with that whole idea of wearing a nano

00:32:59   as a wristwatch was that the nano

00:33:01   because it wasn't designed for that

00:33:03   didn't have any kind of wireless

00:33:07   connectivity you know like I feel like

00:33:10   the whole idea

00:33:12   it falls short if it doesn't have any

00:33:16   actual a digital information on all the

00:33:18   head was time really and you know then

00:33:20   songs that you had already loaded on it

00:33:22   whereas announced its slipping my mind

00:33:24   right now but I've already back then

00:33:26   there's a kickstarter project for this

00:33:27   watch

00:33:28   let's have 0 what is called pebble

00:33:30   pebble that's it right the pebble watch

00:33:32   which uses like this it's not quite the

00:33:35   ink but it's like II think so its low

00:33:37   power and it can stay on all the time

00:33:39   but it uses bluetooth so that it can

00:33:43   communicate to smartphone and stuff like

00:33:45   that again I don't know that i'm going

00:33:47   to really love that pebble watch I think

00:33:49   it's too big i kind of don't really even

00:33:51   like digital watches i kinda like an

00:33:53   analog watch but i did i've supported

00:33:56   them because I do want to see them drive

00:33:58   and I love the idea of a small start-up

00:34:00   taking a shot at a big problem like that

00:34:01   but I feel like they're on the right

00:34:03   track in a way that the Nano is a watch

00:34:06   never could be because it actually has

00:34:07   the bluetooth and is communicating you

00:34:10   know you're getting data i think these

00:34:12   states if you're making devices and they

00:34:14   don't have networking like they don't

00:34:16   have connectivity built into them

00:34:17   they're pretty pointless

00:34:20   I just feel pretty strongly about that I

00:34:23   I don't really like one of the biggest

00:34:26   one of the things i have is the sony

00:34:28   camera sony nex-5 and it doesn't have

00:34:31   built-in Wi-Fi and I have to use like I

00:34:35   Phi and all those other hacks to you

00:34:38   know make it work and it just is like

00:34:39   it's just not a seamless experience i

00:34:42   wish they had and which is why i always

00:34:44   end up using my iphone for taking

00:34:46   pictures just because it's just so much

00:34:48   more convenient you can just take

00:34:51   pictures and boom share them upload them

00:34:53   to whatever i think that's that's the

00:34:56   key difference is sort of agree with

00:34:59   what do you think of the the new ipods

00:35:01   today so I love the the new I ipod touch

00:35:07   they introduce my money my nephews and

00:35:11   nieces are getting that instead of

00:35:13   getting an iphone i was considering

00:35:16   sending them an iphone but i think the

00:35:19   ipod touches just just a good option and

00:35:22   i think it could have a pretty serious

00:35:26   his impact on the at home gaming

00:35:30   business the consult

00:35:33   I like it gets pretty ready it's very

00:35:35   powerful it has airplane built into it

00:35:38   it can have an impact like you know if

00:35:41   they could do if Apple could sell the

00:35:45   ipod TV for cheaper like four forty nine

00:35:48   dollars right they could actually have a

00:35:50   serious console competitor I literally

00:35:54   like that the the other the ipod nano i

00:35:58   don't know like I'm not I've never

00:36:01   really cared for that product and this

00:36:03   one too

00:36:04   I'm not all that impressed by i think

00:36:06   one of the things that's interesting is

00:36:08   so one of the things I've seen already

00:36:10   and you know with there wasn't really

00:36:13   much of a surprise with the iphone five

00:36:15   but now that we've seen its official

00:36:17   here's what it really is and there's

00:36:18   sort of the backlash against it the the

00:36:21   negative take that I've seen is its

00:36:23   there's nothing new here it's just the

00:36:25   same thing it was but better and I say

00:36:29   duh thats you know when you have like

00:36:31   the most popular product in the history

00:36:33   of the tech industry you know you

00:36:35   probably don't want to change it that

00:36:36   much but as much as the iphone i really

00:36:40   do think you could argue and I don't I i

00:36:42   don't mean that I mean this is a

00:36:43   compliment not as a complaint that it's

00:36:45   the exact same idea is the original

00:36:47   iphone from five years ago just improved

00:36:50   year over year over year one year at a

00:36:53   time faster better screen thinner

00:36:56   lighter you compare that to the ipod

00:37:00   nano where it really when they showed

00:37:02   the history of the device it's like they

00:37:04   really are all over the place you know

00:37:06   in form factor and dimensions and even

00:37:10   in terms of like just what is it meant

00:37:12   for like is shouldn't be able to play

00:37:15   video and it didn't and then it did and

00:37:17   then didn't and now it does again it's

00:37:20   like that that's a pretty big feature

00:37:21   that they just keep you know that

00:37:23   they're they're using the same name but

00:37:25   they're really inventing like all new

00:37:26   products for this thing every year to

00:37:28   right yeah you're right about that i was

00:37:32   surprised by the use of color yellow

00:37:35   it's like what's with the yellow man

00:37:37   like I mean I'd like I

00:37:38   don't want yellow device I'm sorry yeah

00:37:40   I would never buy we have to say yellow

00:37:42   would probably be the last one I would

00:37:44   buy like you have to be really special

00:37:46   person to buy yellow device i want to do

00:37:48   they call it yellow i'm not even sure

00:37:50   they call you or do they call it gold

00:37:51   whatever they might call it some

00:37:53   ridiculous name but it's still yellow

00:37:56   yeah I you know so one thing which the

00:37:59   observation i had of the event today

00:38:01   especially from the ipod spectrum is

00:38:05   that how much of the unification of

00:38:08   design and manufacturing process and

00:38:10   materials has happened across all apple

00:38:14   products they vary anodised aluminium

00:38:16   very simply a very the lines are very

00:38:20   laser card ready straight everything has

00:38:23   that uniformity I think that's something

00:38:26   very unique this time I saw which is

00:38:29   pretty interesting i think the only

00:38:31   thing which actually looks out of place

00:38:33   now at the ipad yeah maybe a little bit

00:38:36   the ipad one was actually more closer to

00:38:40   this design language than the new one

00:38:44   yeah and one thing with the with the

00:38:46   iphone and the ipod touch for the first

00:38:50   five years up until today if you looked

00:38:52   at them straight on when they did look a

00:38:54   lot like the same thing you know it's

00:38:56   the same exact sort of thing but when

00:38:59   you turn around look at the back

00:39:00   they looked totally different yeah

00:39:02   although always from the beginning where

00:39:04   the ipod touch always had this sort of

00:39:06   classic ipod shiny metal back like the

00:39:12   the fingerprint smudge material and the

00:39:16   i phone always had is buried you know

00:39:20   the original one was that bead blasted

00:39:22   the lunar morever and then there were

00:39:23   the two years where they had the black

00:39:24   plastic and and now it was glass with

00:39:30   the iphone 4 and 4s but now they seem to

00:39:32   be like you said there's a very the

00:39:35   colors are different but there's a very

00:39:37   similar material aesthetic right you

00:39:42   know the same exact aluminum so somebody

00:39:46   I spoke to like not you know it's like

00:39:48   not I I don't know enough to kind of

00:39:51   write a blog post

00:39:52   it's about it but apparently I'm told

00:39:54   that Apple currently has some of the

00:39:57   best materials engineers in the world

00:40:00   working for it i would be surprised by

00:40:03   that and that is why you can see this

00:40:06   uniformity like so they've actually just

00:40:09   as they spend a lot of money making

00:40:11   their own chips they have spent a lot of

00:40:13   time making their own like material

00:40:17   decision and you can see it like i can

00:40:19   and and the the the Retina Display

00:40:21   MacBook Pro is actually like the

00:40:25   epicenter of this design language of

00:40:28   this product design language which is

00:40:29   something very unique i haven't seen it

00:40:32   in many other products except maybe I've

00:40:35   seen it like when when you look at the

00:40:37   high end cars they do that they are very

00:40:40   similar materials to use

00:40:41   across-the-board like companies once it

00:40:44   started using carbon fiber it starts to

00:40:47   become part of their whole manufacturing

00:40:49   process so that's one thing i noticed in

00:40:52   in this presentation today

00:40:54   yeah did you catch the part in the the

00:40:56   design video for the iphone 5 where they

00:40:59   talked about the diamond cutter

00:41:01   yeah that cuts the they called the Sham

00:41:03   fur here that slight edge slight

00:41:07   diagonal edge that takes the sharpness

00:41:09   of the the sides and it when you look at

00:41:16   that part of the phone it's it's really

00:41:18   kind of stunning it it's just this tiny

00:41:21   little edge and it is so impossibly

00:41:25   shiny actually looks shinier than the

00:41:26   glass you know it's it's amazing like

00:41:31   they have done such interesting work on

00:41:34   on manufacturing production materials i

00:41:37   wish i could talk to those guys

00:41:39   yeah they just never let you talk to the

00:41:42   night there just aren't like that is in

00:41:45   my opinion that is the real work

00:41:47   Apple doing Nov we get all caught up in

00:41:50   the features an hour faster processors

00:41:53   but I get totally excited about all

00:41:56   these like you know manufacturing

00:41:59   nerdiness a little bit like that i think

00:42:03   the ipad i'm sorry the IP

00:42:06   hard nano is an interesting product I I

00:42:10   just him not something i'm going to

00:42:13   think about a lot

00:42:14   no not mean I will say this though too

00:42:17   though it now that it has a slightly

00:42:18   bigger screen i know that the you know

00:42:20   the last year's model had the the iOS

00:42:23   style interface but now that has a

00:42:25   bigger screen and it has a home button

00:42:27   it really does feel like a tiny little

00:42:31   iphone and it's not running iOS as far

00:42:35   so far as anybody knows i think it's the

00:42:36   same embedded OS is the old nanos but

00:42:39   it's so clearly shares the same physics

00:42:43   algorithms as iOS like when you're in

00:42:46   the settings app and you get scroll down

00:42:48   and you get to the bottom the bounce is

00:42:50   like it's the iphone bounce and when you

00:42:52   stretch at the top of a scrolling list

00:42:54   it stretches the exact same way that

00:42:57   list i mean it it could not feel more

00:42:59   like iOS i mean that's that's the

00:43:02   experience they have to offer like

00:43:04   across-the-board otherwise like what's

00:43:07   the point of having a design philosophy

00:43:09   and design language when all your

00:43:11   products are not unified around that do

00:43:14   you think it would make sense in a year

00:43:15   or two if they could to make a device

00:43:17   like that the ipod nano but that did run

00:43:21   iOS so they could open up apps for it

00:43:23   yeah I think they should do that and in

00:43:27   fact connectivity should be part of it

00:43:29   like I just believe no apps

00:43:32   let's say this is the lie this is I've

00:43:34   been talking about this for a long time

00:43:36   in order for a device to be successful

00:43:38   it has to have two elements it has to

00:43:41   have connectivity and it has to have

00:43:44   usability usability comes from services

00:43:47   in case of Apple those services are apps

00:43:50   and connectivity is what makes those

00:43:54   services alive and more services you

00:43:57   have more you use your device

00:44:00   the more you use it the more you wanted

00:44:02   more likely to break it or by an upgrade

00:44:04   so that's key think that's the the

00:44:07   philosophy they need to have i'm pretty

00:44:09   sure that's the philosophy they have we

00:44:11   just don't know i don't think that you

00:44:13   would ever want to type on a device like

00:44:15   that like I think it would have to be

00:44:17   like not

00:44:19   the iphones version of iOS running

00:44:21   smaller it would have to be like a new

00:44:23   branch you know in a way that there are

00:44:25   ipad apps and iphone apps they would

00:44:28   have to be like nano apps grano for lack

00:44:30   of a better what I don't think you don't

00:44:32   need many apps you just had ipad sorry

00:44:35   I've ipod nano with the networking with

00:44:37   the Wi-Fi connection right with city

00:44:40   right City play this song I mean yeah

00:44:42   voice voice as your input instead of a

00:44:44   keyboard I think games could be

00:44:46   interesting on it but like information

00:44:49   status information stuff like that

00:44:51   I i do that i think the form factor is

00:44:53   interesting but as it stands its you

00:44:55   noticed I i do think this is one big i

00:44:59   would say Apple as a little lagging as a

00:45:01   company is that they don't think of

00:45:04   services as engagement right like sound

00:45:09   like you know how the facebook people

00:45:10   send you these stupid notifications all

00:45:13   the time so you keep using facebook even

00:45:16   though you know you hate it they have

00:45:18   worked really hard and making us

00:45:20   dopamine addicts and Apple needs to kind

00:45:22   of work on something similar to keep

00:45:25   people using those devices all the time

00:45:27   I just like that's my at least that's

00:45:30   how I think about it and the I the new

00:45:34   ipod touch it is so remarkably thin

00:45:37   light

00:45:37   I mean did you did you did I did play

00:45:40   with it for like two minutes like that

00:45:41   too many people I I never heard it was a

00:45:44   lot less crowded around the ipod touch

00:45:45   than the iphone so i spent more time

00:45:47   with the ipod touch

00:45:49   it's it's so impossibly thin

00:45:53   yeah it really is and people were saying

00:45:55   over and over again that they kind of

00:45:56   couldn't believe that it was this is the

00:45:58   action this is what really it's like

00:45:59   it's almost like hard to believe

00:46:01   hey it'sit's you can touch it you don't

00:46:03   have to hide it behind a glass and and

00:46:08   I'm a little so I'm a little surprised

00:46:10   and I know that it leaked out before the

00:46:11   event and that there were some whispers

00:46:13   over the last week like 9to5 mac had it

00:46:15   and they they always get it from these

00:46:17   sk use that go into the apple retail

00:46:19   system and that when these sk use for

00:46:23   new ipods show up it's a really it's

00:46:25   almost like a sure sign that the new

00:46:26   ipods are coming very soon but the

00:46:29   reason I found it hard to believe and I

00:46:31   was a little skeptical all the way up

00:46:32   until they actually

00:46:33   announced it was that i still i found it

00:46:35   unusual to announce the ipod touch with

00:46:38   the new foreign screen and and radical

00:46:41   new you know major new features at the

00:46:43   same time as the iphone that it's based

00:46:45   on I I didn't even think they were gonna

00:46:50   be I apart touch update now I well I'd i

00:46:54   wasn't sure i don't know but it and one

00:46:56   reason why and it's not that it makes

00:46:58   the I the new iphone 5 look bad but it's

00:47:03   like the the ipod touch was always

00:47:05   thinner than the iphone because it you

00:47:06   know there's all sorts of antennas they

00:47:08   don't need to include and I guess it

00:47:09   probably needs the smaller battery

00:47:11   because it doesn't have to power those

00:47:12   antennas so I've always thought boy

00:47:16   wouldn't be want to be able not even

00:47:18   wouldn't but won't because I know Apple

00:47:20   moves towards thinner and lighter want

00:47:23   to be great when the iphone is that then

00:47:25   in light and that's what the new iphone

00:47:27   5 is it is thin light as the old ipod

00:47:29   touches and immediately they've already

00:47:32   up the bar with these new ipod touches

00:47:35   which our way thinner and in just call

00:47:39   it I almost hesitate to say to light but

00:47:42   but if there is such a thing as

00:47:43   something that's too light it's it's

00:47:44   these things they almost feel like they

00:47:46   wouldn't fall at the full rate of

00:47:48   gravity so I phone 5.5 really be pretty

00:47:51   10 like it would be ten like this like

00:47:55   the word the current iphone 5 right but

00:47:57   it will have a lot of things which would

00:47:59   be different and the number one thing

00:48:01   which will be different will be the

00:48:03   battery i can tell you they are going to

00:48:05   spend next 12 months focusing on battery

00:48:09   power they they are I know their apple

00:48:13   people have been talking to a lot of the

00:48:14   battery companies and technologies and

00:48:17   they've been doing a lot of research and

00:48:19   they're not alone a lot of companies are

00:48:21   but that would be there many of focus

00:48:25   and the lessons they learn from the ipod

00:48:27   touch usage are going to help them make

00:48:30   the ipod iphone battery in a act more

00:48:35   smartly because it's a lot it's like

00:48:37   software and battery design and they

00:48:39   will need to figure that one are you

00:48:41   know and the reason i bring that up is

00:48:43   that two years ago apples biggest week

00:48:47   miss was its radios like wireless radios

00:48:51   night and then in two years and what

00:48:53   they launched today people have

00:48:55   completely glossed over like how

00:48:57   difficult it is to support so many

00:49:01   different standards in such a 10 device

00:49:04   using a very smart networking video

00:49:08   networking technology that that is

00:49:10   happening last two years and I think

00:49:12   their work systematically on it I think

00:49:14   that's what I find impressive it is not

00:49:18   something people glom onto but it's a

00:49:21   very hard challenge and battery is the

00:49:23   next hard challenge so yes in two years

00:49:27   you will have an iphone which will be

00:49:29   like as tender than I part touch and it

00:49:32   will have the same battery power

00:49:34   probably more than what we have today I

00:49:37   i lied i do believe that their next big

00:49:40   breakthrough is going to be on batteries

00:49:42   I wouldn't be surprised it's got to be

00:49:43   because it has to be

00:49:45   I know it is it's the biggest thing

00:49:46   inside the phone okay and so if they you

00:49:49   know it's going to be the sticking point

00:49:51   toward getting them smaller and lighter

00:49:54   I mean that is one thing that when you

00:49:55   put it in hand and you know it it's

00:50:00   obviously you pulled in your hand it

00:50:03   does feel taller than your I've then the

00:50:05   old iphones and it definitely feels like

00:50:07   the top of the screen is farther away

00:50:08   but side to side because it is the same

00:50:12   size as the iphone it still feels like

00:50:14   the iphone form for us and to me it's a

00:50:16   much more comfortable size just holding

00:50:18   it just holding in one hand then the

00:50:21   bigger android phones and like the the

00:50:23   big windows phones like I really find

00:50:26   those uncomfortable not uncomfortable

00:50:29   but just not as comfortable to use it

00:50:32   just seems like they beg to be used

00:50:33   those bigger phones the way that android

00:50:36   phones have gone to four-and-a-half

00:50:37   inches or 5 inches even in some cases

00:50:38   they beg to be used with two hands all

00:50:41   the time not one hand so I i don't use

00:50:44   too many android phones not because

00:50:46   they're bad phone that just is the

00:50:49   keyboards just turn i'm not very

00:50:52   inviting

00:50:53   that's like--that's my big things like

00:50:55   yeah I have all those phone i like you

00:50:57   know I like some of the work goo

00:50:59   we'll just done with this nexus devices

00:51:01   and they're pretty you know the

00:51:03   development devices there faster

00:51:05   powerful the the the OS is not not iOS

00:51:11   but it's pretty good and a lot of people

00:51:14   are writing applications for it but I

00:51:17   just find little things are not there

00:51:20   like the email client is not very good

00:51:22   even though it's google built in our are

00:51:25   the tactic the keyboards are not all

00:51:28   that great but beyond that I think the

00:51:33   key thing on this new the new size

00:51:37   iphone 5 is actually going to be our

00:51:41   ability to deal with excess information

00:51:45   on the screen and I i think people

00:51:47   always forget get more information you

00:51:51   cram on the screen it kind of you know

00:51:53   is a shock to the system which is why i

00:51:56   think the bigger android take a little

00:51:59   time getting used to it because they're

00:52:02   just more stuff crammed onto the screen

00:52:04   and I think the is I i'm looking forward

00:52:08   to using my iphone 5 whenever it comes

00:52:12   to market from me i'm still unconvinced

00:52:15   whether it's AII still why wonder

00:52:19   whether it's not just a look

00:52:22   marketing-wise we kind of need to be at

00:52:24   four inches because this is we know

00:52:27   people don't buy on specs but if

00:52:30   everybody else is making 4-inch phones

00:52:32   we kind of need a 4-inch phone and that

00:52:34   it's not really going to make that much

00:52:36   of a difference people are not going to

00:52:38   when they upgrade or not going to say

00:52:40   wow I really appreciate the exercise

00:52:42   here so if I was not writing about apple

00:52:46   and iphone and devices i probably would

00:52:50   not rush out and buy it just because

00:52:52   it's called a 4-inch display right it's

00:52:55   just not like a decision making right

00:52:56   thing for me I like yeah okay whatever

00:52:59   well anyway I guess that brings us to

00:53:01   the iphone 4 absence we've been talking

00:53:03   about it and that was the it's clearly

00:53:05   the big announcement to that so before

00:53:08   we go to the iphone though i would say

00:53:12   thank God for upgrading the itunes uh oh

00:53:15   my god that thing I've become such a pig

00:53:17   I really did and you know what it kind

00:53:19   of reminds me of a little and I i I'd

00:53:22   heard I had not seen nobody has shown me

00:53:24   I no no little birdies had filled me in

00:53:26   that's to what the new itunes look like

00:53:28   but i was told I've been told a couple

00:53:30   people that yeah this is like a serious

00:53:32   this isn't like a wink-wink nudge-nudge

00:53:35   it's an update it's a real rethinking of

00:53:38   what the itunes app for mac and windows

00:53:40   should should look like and I I you know

00:53:44   I haven't used it yet but I really from

00:53:47   what I saw a boy really does seem

00:53:48   appealing

00:53:50   it's very start and i have to say from a

00:53:52   UI perspective it doesn't really seem

00:53:54   like anything I've seen before

00:53:55   it seems like a new type of that like

00:53:59   Apple has all these apps that have you

00:54:01   know and a third party apps to but the

00:54:03   the same layout as itunes old itunes

00:54:06   sidebar on the left in a column that's

00:54:10   narrow and then you click something in

00:54:12   that sidebar on the left and it fills in

00:54:15   the right with what that is and that

00:54:19   same yet that's how the mail at some

00:54:21   mail works that's how all sorts of other

00:54:23   apps work and it really seems like

00:54:26   that's the also the best measure of how

00:54:28   complicated itunes got is because that

00:54:32   source list got longer and longer and

00:54:36   longer before you even got to the stuff

00:54:38   that you make like playlists and stuff

00:54:40   like that but just in terms of how many

00:54:42   items are in there in a default

00:54:44   installation of itunes it was this that

00:54:45   the other thing it's all gone now it's

00:54:48   just one big window so it looked a

00:54:51   little bit like Rdio to me like I

00:54:53   couldn't put in put my finger on it but

00:54:56   so I treated out ask people just looks a

00:54:59   little familiar and like a lot of people

00:55:01   tweeted out saying it looks like our do

00:55:04   and i went and checked and it does and I

00:55:07   just feel like our God let me try this

00:55:10   because i hate my current itunes like

00:55:14   just completely utterly useless it just

00:55:17   slowly it's slow and I can't act like

00:55:20   and you know like I just think the idea

00:55:22   of playlist as we know it needs to be

00:55:25   the record completely well I but I'd you

00:55:29   know hold your thought on that because

00:55:30   at one thing I say I'd unless i missed

00:55:32   it the hands-on area did not have

00:55:34   anywhere you could play with the new I

00:55:35   tuna now so that's and that does make me

00:55:38   wonder about the timing of the

00:55:40   announcement today is that why it seems

00:55:42   unusual that she was a little weird that

00:55:44   they announced the new itunes but it's

00:55:46   still october yeah or late October even

00:55:49   or did they say october i think sometime

00:55:51   in October well it's you know it's well

00:55:52   over a month away

00:55:53   yeah and they didn't have it in the

00:55:57   hands-on area i saw that there's a new

00:56:00   sieved which was kmart oh so maybe they

00:56:03   do that i didn't i have i've been

00:56:05   offline all day i don't i don't know

00:56:07   I've contracted like I would probably go

00:56:08   home and try but it really does seem

00:56:10   like they've in addition to just simply

00:56:13   reducing visual clutter in the interface

00:56:16   they've also really seem to have done so

00:56:18   with a specific goal in mind which is to

00:56:21   get you back to just using the app to

00:56:23   play music and maybe secondarily watch

00:56:26   movies right and not have it be this app

00:56:31   that was a device manager for gadgets

00:56:35   you know these gadgets that you tether

00:56:37   to your computer and you do all this

00:56:39   stuff to do that it sort of got away

00:56:41   from that and its back to use this app

00:56:44   to play music so one observation i

00:56:48   thought it would be really cool if Apple

00:56:51   did visual playlist making capability

00:56:55   drag-and-drop because now we have such

00:56:57   good touch on our own our pond laptops

00:57:01   that you can actually swipe in touch and

00:57:03   create like really create playlists vs

00:57:06   creating like those manual add to the

00:57:09   playlist kind of nonsense so i am really

00:57:12   looking forward to playing hard with

00:57:13   that whenever it comes out that's that's

00:57:17   my that's my who I have that was on my

00:57:21   wish list and I got it

00:57:23   there's that I forget what they call the

00:57:25   new feature though but I'd it's the one

00:57:28   that's like add to your list now or or

00:57:30   something like that played now it's like

00:57:32   if you're in the middle of a playlist

00:57:34   but you're going on next up next that's

00:57:36   it that's it up next

00:57:37   that to me is I've thought of that

00:57:40   feature but never really thought it

00:57:43   through enough to like actually like

00:57:45   right about it or ask for it

00:57:47   I just know i can remember many times

00:57:49   being in that situation where I'm

00:57:50   playing music I have a playlist that i

00:57:52   don't want to stop playing but I'm just

00:57:55   digging around my itunes and I say i'd

00:57:57   like to hear this song right now or next

00:58:00   at least but I don't want to stop the

00:58:02   playlist and I don't want to add it to

00:58:04   the you know like maybe it's a smart

00:58:06   playlists and the smart playlists

00:58:07   doesn't even have this it's not what I

00:58:10   can't add it to the playlist

00:58:12   maybe that's what people also meant for

00:58:16   the pandora like service that happened

00:58:19   was going to launch which is like the

00:58:21   same feature a pen I would love to have

00:58:24   pandora features on my own library right

00:58:28   like when it's so hard to sum the genius

00:58:31   hasn't really been genius for a long

00:58:32   time and that's how I feel like they

00:58:35   needed to improve that as well so maybe

00:58:38   that that comes out in the ABS about the

00:58:40   next version of itunes I'm key i'm

00:58:43   curious what the I don't think they've

00:58:44   shown it i'm looking at the website

00:58:45   right now i'm curious what the the

00:58:47   windows version will look like Adam

00:58:50   camera

00:58:51   yeah who cares i know a lot of people

00:58:52   have been asking me the Reader's have

00:58:54   been asking me of what do I think

00:58:56   they're going to do about Windows RT

00:58:57   since Windows RT doesn't run the desktop

00:59:00   Windows apps and I think the answer is

00:59:02   that forever windows RT device you don't

00:59:04   get itunes you're not going to use it

00:59:06   the whole reason they have it for

00:59:08   windows is so that you can use a windows

00:59:11   pc to manage your ipods and your iphone

00:59:14   not through iCloud and I think that now

00:59:17   they're getting to the point with iCloud

00:59:18   where they don't really care you had a

00:59:20   if you have a PC they would love you to

00:59:21   buy an iphone but i don't think they

00:59:23   care so much about you being able to

00:59:25   tether it to your pc you go through

00:59:28   iCloud I i would like they did say

00:59:32   though it's coming out for for pc to

00:59:35   yeah I you know I think the the thing

00:59:43   with the pc itunes was that i always

00:59:47   find actually work better than the mac

00:59:49   one really yeah

00:59:51   huh I just like it just just felt more

00:59:54   robust and you know less I've never even

00:59:57   tried I tried a few times in 10 years I

00:59:59   don't think I've ever

00:59:59   don't think I've ever

01:00:00   right itunes on pc and it's like I have

01:00:01   I have one pc which i kinda try out

01:00:05   things on I also really thought that the

01:00:07   demo of the mini player was really

01:00:09   fascinating because it seemed to me like

01:00:11   I could leave my itunes in that mini

01:00:12   player state almost all the time and you

01:00:15   just type that I like that did the live

01:00:17   search i like the way it looks the

01:00:18   search results they didn't say it and it

01:00:23   is sort of a different visual treatment

01:00:24   but it kind of reminds me of the ipad

01:00:27   interface with the pop over for the

01:00:29   results you know like you just got this

01:00:30   little tiny thing you type in the field

01:00:32   and then here's the results click on it

01:00:34   and you're playing mm so I've missed

01:00:37   that part i was busy taking pictures and

01:00:40   uploading them so so the scuttlebutt

01:00:42   though and itunes kind of plays into it

01:00:46   the scuttlebutt is that it that Apple

01:00:49   didn't really decide applies a lot of

01:00:51   stuff to announce as it before today

01:00:53   they had a lot of stuff they wanted to

01:00:55   announce in the next month or two and

01:00:58   that they've been maybe thinking about

01:01:00   two events I mean clearly the big thing

01:01:03   that everybody is expecting and it has

01:01:05   not yet been announces this ipad mini

01:01:07   thing

01:01:08   ipad air whatever you want to call it

01:01:09   and that they've more or less felt like

01:01:16   they had a lot of options as the how to

01:01:18   do it should they announced the iphone

01:01:20   all by itself like they did last year

01:01:22   should they obviously the way they did

01:01:24   go announce the iphone with the ipods

01:01:27   and have a music event with the iphone

01:01:29   or should they have a music event next

01:01:32   month with the ipods and this new

01:01:35   miniature ipad and call that the music

01:01:38   event and I feel like and from what I've

01:01:41   heard a couple people have heard is that

01:01:42   the decision on that didn't get made

01:01:44   until relatively late

01:01:46   I mean did not last minute obviously

01:01:48   just from the polish and the precision

01:01:50   of the of the event they made it but you

01:01:54   know relatively speaking as much as you

01:01:57   know whatever time it takes to put on a

01:01:59   event of that level of Polish that's

01:02:03   when they made the decision and I think

01:02:06   it kind of fits

01:02:07   with the fact that itunes the app is not

01:02:10   ready yet so I thought maybe you know

01:02:12   seems a little bit and the ipods aren't

01:02:14   coming till next monday there you know

01:02:16   the the this is not this late the Apple

01:02:19   is changing clearly so things are going

01:02:22   to be a little different i'm pretty sure

01:02:23   you have better idea on what's going on

01:02:26   and how this works then I do work what

01:02:30   are your thoughts

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01:04:37   alright you're back so the iphone it

01:04:44   starts with a with Schiller I guess he

01:04:47   said a little bit but any more lessons

01:04:49   here let me show it to you any gestures

01:04:51   and this pedestal i guess they had it

01:04:53   for lack of a better word Rises out of

01:04:56   the floor and start spinning around I

01:05:00   and like I was sitting next to Dan Morin

01:05:03   from macworld and I just said you know

01:05:05   where do you buy where they buy

01:05:07   something like that because you can't

01:05:08   just go to the store and buy the

01:05:10   pedestal that rises out of the floor was

01:05:13   like something out of like a James Bond

01:05:14   movie you know like that's where his

01:05:17   watch comes out of this crazy

01:05:20   over-engineered pedestal that comes out

01:05:23   of the floor and they've got these

01:05:25   little micro spotlights just to show

01:05:27   that just hit the phone that was pretty

01:05:31   cool i thought so too i thought that it

01:05:33   comes n and I think people got it too

01:05:35   because there's a lot of people laughing

01:05:36   like it it was it was very well done

01:05:39   I mean they did it to the nines I mean

01:05:41   and the way that it rotated was super

01:05:44   smooth it was timed perfectly with the

01:05:49   movie behind it like where when the

01:05:51   iphone was exactly sideways to the

01:05:53   audience the phone on the video behind

01:05:56   it with sideways to the audience but it

01:06:00   seems crazy because it only was up there

01:06:01   for like a minute it was up for like a

01:06:03   minute it spun around twice and then it

01:06:04   went down so like somebody that Apple

01:06:07   like had the job of like engineering

01:06:08   this robot pedestal that for one minute

01:06:13   in one event right that's the luxury of

01:06:15   having couple hundred billion dollars

01:06:17   lying about

01:06:18   yeah I do think so and then to fast

01:06:21   forward all the way to the end of the

01:06:22   event I when the foo fighters came out

01:06:27   I had this thought Tim Cook's up on

01:06:29   stage and he's saying you know we love

01:06:31   to have an act by just being a music the

01:06:33   heart of the company in DNA the coming

01:06:34   we always like to end with one of our

01:06:36   favorite acts and we have one of those

01:06:37   acts today and then they put a foo

01:06:39   fighters album up so I knew it was the

01:06:41   food fighters and everybody started

01:06:42   getting excited but I thought well how

01:06:44   are they going to come out and i will

01:06:46   use what i thought i thought maybe it

01:06:47   wouldn't be the full band that wouldn't

01:06:49   be drums maybe just the lead singer

01:06:51   David Grohl would come out with a guitar

01:06:52   and one or two the other guys maybe with

01:06:55   guitars that walk out onstage you know

01:06:57   but it wouldn't be the full electric

01:06:59   setup because there was clearly know

01:07:00   where there where that could be and like

01:07:02   years ago like I forget if it was a john

01:07:05   mayer one of those things but it was in

01:07:06   a Moscow knee event though which is a

01:07:09   much bigger stage huge stage he came out

01:07:12   like from the side like on a thing that

01:07:15   rotated around from the back or maybe

01:07:18   the African it was but but there was

01:07:20   room for something like that and here

01:07:22   all of a sudden the screen goes up and

01:07:24   this platform comes out again so super

01:07:27   smooth this moving platform that the

01:07:30   band was on and I i asked at the the

01:07:34   hands-on area and at it that somebody at

01:07:37   apple said that

01:07:39   yeah that was custom to like built that

01:07:42   just for the thing

01:07:43   well it's pretty impression that was

01:07:46   pretty impressive i was like taking a

01:07:48   back four minutes like wow idea the way

01:07:52   you put those good is that that's those

01:07:54   are the sort of little touches that you

01:07:56   can do when you've got a hundred billion

01:07:57   dollars in cash

01:07:59   yeah so my mom I enjoyed myself was just

01:08:03   like 44 for a few minutes it felt right

01:08:06   damn these guys work really hard to make

01:08:08   this happen yeah and I think they do

01:08:11   work really hard and presentations it's

01:08:13   not as there's a lot of work which goes

01:08:16   into it

01:08:17   my two cents i do too and I I've been

01:08:23   thinking about this and i'm sticking

01:08:25   about it in the context of amazon last

01:08:27   week to that I think that there's a

01:08:29   really strong correlation between a

01:08:33   company that's able to put together a

01:08:35   cohesive smart easy-to-understand

01:08:39   presentation

01:08:40   for a product and the fact that the

01:08:43   product itself is actually thoughtful

01:08:45   and cohesive and well-thought-out like

01:08:48   there is you know and it's an inr night

01:08:50   sometimes I worry i think well maybe

01:08:52   that's just because i'm so close to

01:08:54   apple an apple does both those things

01:08:56   well does good products and does good

01:08:58   things but I thought amazon's thing last

01:09:01   week showed that it you know it's true

01:09:02   for other companies to wear a really

01:09:05   strong presentation from bezels and a

01:09:07   really easy to understand message of why

01:09:12   you would buy these candles and who

01:09:13   therefore right and i think if you look

01:09:16   around in the fashion world you can say

01:09:20   like there's like if you go to a Tom

01:09:21   Ford show and the way then stores are

01:09:24   the products are not that I will never

01:09:26   fit into one of his heart fits but but

01:09:30   there is a cohesive thought process like

01:09:32   you know it goes starts from the very

01:09:34   top and goes right the way to the bottom

01:09:37   and it is across product presentation

01:09:40   experience like people don't quite give

01:09:44   the importance to the experience part of

01:09:47   apple or any company like Apple you know

01:09:50   there is like you go to herman miller's

01:09:52   you know products when you buy a like an

01:09:55   Eames chair

01:09:57   it is an experience you don't just buy a

01:10:00   word you know you're buying a certain

01:10:02   kind of an experienced it doesn't matter

01:10:04   whether its cost twenty bucks or two

01:10:07   hundred thousand dollars it is about

01:10:09   creating that experience and that

01:10:11   experiences you're in bed sensibility

01:10:13   you need to have it inside you to

01:10:16   actually be able to project it to rest

01:10:19   of the world and I think that's what

01:10:20   Amazon short last night last week and I

01:10:24   you know there's even like a rhymin a

01:10:26   reason to the people who get trotted out

01:10:28   now Amazon did it with one man it was

01:10:30   just Jeff basis and he didn't call

01:10:31   anybody else and that's one way to do it

01:10:33   and I think in the past apple has had

01:10:35   two events like that with steve jobs now

01:10:37   they're not only they're ever going to

01:10:38   have an event like that again I think

01:10:40   now it's a team player team player type

01:10:43   thing but it's it's almost like

01:10:45   parentheticals or layers of a hierarchy

01:10:48   we're at the top level there's the root

01:10:50   level and that's Tim Cook and then he

01:10:52   says

01:10:53   ok now we're going to talk about new

01:10:54   iphone 5 here's Phil Schiller and so

01:10:58   Phil then is like one layer down in the

01:11:01   hierarchy and his thing is the iphone

01:11:03   and then in the middle of his thing to

01:11:06   talk just about the software then it

01:11:08   goes to scott forstall and forestall

01:11:11   leaves Phil comes back out to close his

01:11:14   parentheses and then fill leaves and

01:11:17   comes back out and you're back at the

01:11:18   root level and then it starts all over

01:11:20   again with the ipods and itunes with

01:11:22   Eddy Cue and jaws react and with Jeff

01:11:26   Robyn coming out to demo the new itunes

01:11:28   but guys come out for specific reason

01:11:30   and when they leave the guy who

01:11:32   introduced them comes back out until you

01:11:34   get back to Tim Cook at the end and it's

01:11:36   all over

01:11:37   compare that to microsoft and at the

01:11:39   windows 8 again to borrow your technical

01:11:42   term shit show a couple months ago where

01:11:45   it's like there was no logic to it but

01:11:48   yet it was it just seemed it was almost

01:11:50   like the internal politics of the

01:11:51   company laid just exposed where here's

01:11:55   the people who need to come out because

01:11:56   they want to come out but there didn't

01:11:58   seem to be any logic to it there's one

01:12:00   guy showing the one tablet and here's

01:12:02   another guy who comes out to show a

01:12:03   keyboard and then here's this other guy

01:12:05   who comes out to show a different type

01:12:07   of keyboard and then the tablet didn't

01:12:11   work you know and now here we are

01:12:14   months later and it's not just that

01:12:17   their presentation wasn't good now we're

01:12:19   at a point now with you know with

01:12:21   windows 8 and windows phone 8 where is

01:12:25   it going to ship on time are they going

01:12:27   to have these things ready for the

01:12:28   christmas season and you know it seems

01:12:30   like it's a question it in a confusion

01:12:34   is not just in your mind it's everywhere

01:12:37   right but i always look at those things

01:12:39   i always think it's me and it's just

01:12:41   like when I was a kid it goes back to

01:12:42   when I was a kid if I ever read a book

01:12:44   that was like above my grade level and I

01:12:48   didn't get it I just thought well i'm

01:12:49   just not smart enough

01:12:51   I'm not a good enough reader yet I this

01:12:53   is beyond me and I just always blame

01:12:55   myself and or like if I stayed up late

01:12:58   and I got to watch a TV show with my

01:13:00   parents that was on late and was like an

01:13:01   adult show and I just didn't get it

01:13:03   I just didn't understand what the heck

01:13:04   is going on just always thought it was

01:13:06   me and I still

01:13:07   feel that way like I watched that

01:13:08   microsoft event and i got like half way

01:13:11   through before i started blaming them

01:13:12   like halfway through I was like you know

01:13:14   I'm just so unfamiliar with Microsoft

01:13:16   I'm just so used to apple I don't get

01:13:18   this and it just doesn't make any sense

01:13:19   to me and I got halfway there that you

01:13:20   know what this is just this is just a

01:13:22   mess my I had a great editor when I that

01:13:26   force.com David sure work he taught me

01:13:30   the most important lesson of my life he

01:13:32   said you know you're going to write a

01:13:34   bar technology going to write about

01:13:36   companies are going to write about money

01:13:38   but you always have to remember

01:13:40   everything company's products they're

01:13:44   all about people companies are people

01:13:47   you're not right in the garden

01:13:48   institution you're writing about people

01:13:51   who just don't know it you PA attention

01:13:54   to the people and their own internal

01:13:56   politics and their own internal

01:13:58   confusion that's the company right there

01:14:01   for you and that's exactly what i

01:14:03   intuitively you are getting on to that

01:14:05   tina glomming onto that thing when you

01:14:07   look at the the nokia people write like

01:14:10   five years ago they didn't have that

01:14:13   level of confusion

01:14:14   except they had a certain type of a CEO

01:14:17   who was so metrics driven whose

01:14:20   background was law and the guy who was

01:14:23   continually pulling the you know was the

01:14:25   puppet master was finance guy so they

01:14:28   were only going to do things which made

01:14:30   sense to them and that sprinkle the

01:14:32   things that made sense in a spreadsheet

01:14:33   right and that's exactly what it is it's

01:14:36   like company that people kill people

01:14:39   make things companies don't make things

01:14:41   like how is that like so difficult for

01:14:44   people to understand the other thing

01:14:46   about today's presentation which I've

01:14:48   seen it every single time between

01:14:51   various product groups in a filler

01:14:53   forestall and all these people come and

01:14:55   go there is that little video from

01:14:58   Johnny I've and Bob Mansfield tells you

01:15:02   though that the guys were making it

01:15:04   happen while these guys are making it

01:15:06   happen so there is there is like a

01:15:08   connective tissue that is designed

01:15:10   manufacturing and the internal hardware

01:15:14   technology I think that's really

01:15:16   important for the company and I almost

01:15:18   feel like like you could feel the pride

01:15:20   that they have in it like like everyone

01:15:24   for all they get caught up in some of

01:15:25   these details like the emphasis on the

01:15:27   Sapphire lens on the thing and it's like

01:15:30   all anybody really cares about is does

01:15:33   the camera really take good pictures but

01:15:35   they're so you know and it looked

01:15:36   awesome is my favorite part of that one

01:15:38   of my favorite parts of that video of

01:15:40   how they're making it I like that part

01:15:41   with the laser cutter and I like that

01:15:42   part where they take the Sapphire cut it

01:15:44   up into a bunch of circles and then they

01:15:47   have that like little suction cup thing

01:15:49   coming and picking them off and moving

01:15:50   them down so don't like those too

01:15:52   I like my favorite like just watching

01:15:56   them like the stuff they do it's just

01:15:58   amazing i'm like i'm always amazed at

01:16:00   the engineering which goes into the I

01:16:03   I'll like I was so obsessed with the

01:16:05   Retina Display MacBook Pro not because

01:16:09   it's a great laptop I just feels right

01:16:11   look at that engineering like the very

01:16:13   idea that you're going to engineer the

01:16:15   whole damn thing so that it looks a

01:16:18   certain way and it works a certain way

01:16:20   and it like nobody does that like you

01:16:23   know that's that's the problem i think

01:16:25   did you catch the part in the video

01:16:27   where they said that like all right

01:16:29   here's one iphone 5 frame comes down the

01:16:33   pipe take a snapshot of it and analyze

01:16:36   exactly the dimensions that it got cut

01:16:39   and you know that this one piece of

01:16:41   aluminum is cut and then you go over and

01:16:43   there's like here's the camera and they

01:16:45   have like 37 cameras that they've imaged

01:16:48   and they pick the one that is the most

01:16:50   ideal fit for this particular iphone

01:16:53   frame I mean that's crazy i'm pretty

01:16:56   sure they're all the theme I it almost

01:16:59   defies belief

01:17:01   you know but that you know why not

01:17:02   though if it's going to do it why not i

01:17:03   guess there is some very like they said

01:17:05   they're measuring these things down two

01:17:07   micron and so if there's like a micron

01:17:09   or two difference in this one and that

01:17:12   one and there's a micro to difference in

01:17:15   this iphone 5 frame and this iphone 5

01:17:18   frame

01:17:19   why not pick the one that's the big down

01:17:22   to the micron better fit right but it is

01:17:25   obsessive I mean it really is and it

01:17:27   shows the rich shows and the result is

01:17:29   nothing wrong with that i think the the

01:17:31   lot of people don't know this the

01:17:33   sapphire

01:17:34   glasses what is on the color on these on

01:17:37   these high-end watches right and that's

01:17:40   I think I was just like when I was

01:17:42   watching that is like wow they really

01:17:44   were paying attention like the scratches

01:17:47   on on the lenses are a problem and they

01:17:49   picked the right solution I'd and I do

01:17:51   think I think the comparison to like

01:17:53   just to sort of bring the show full

01:17:55   circle but to go back to the high-end

01:17:57   watches I do kind of feel like that's

01:17:59   the level of craftsmanship that they're

01:18:02   bringing to this and we haven't really

01:18:04   you and I haven't which we should

01:18:05   probably bring the shoulder him but we

01:18:07   haven't really talked about the iphone 5

01:18:08   itself however you should talk about it

01:18:10   I I mean I want to know what you think

01:18:13   like literally I late i think like

01:18:15   everybody else I want to know what you

01:18:16   think you know III don't know I i guess

01:18:19   my first impression is just that it's

01:18:21   almost startlingly lighter-weight I mean

01:18:26   it really you know looking at the

01:18:28   numbers in grams just doesn't seem to do

01:18:30   justice to when you put it in your hand

01:18:32   to sort of bouncing up and down had had

01:18:34   different fields

01:18:36   other than that you know it's just nicer

01:18:41   newer faster iphone and android and i

01:18:43   don't mean that to say that I'm

01:18:44   disappointed it's you know it's like

01:18:46   what last year you know this is what

01:18:47   they do you know I I loved in internal

01:18:51   the internal work which is gone into it

01:18:53   i love the radio engineering they've

01:18:56   done which is pretty amazing kudos to

01:18:58   them the new chip is six is pretty again

01:19:01   the kind of stuff nobody really cares of

01:19:03   art yeah you know what they're going to

01:19:05   care about is when everything is twice

01:19:06   as fast yeah and I was talking to anand

01:19:10   from a non-tech and you know he's like I

01:19:12   always whenever I see him at these

01:19:13   events I always check with him because

01:19:14   he knows these components let's try it

01:19:17   out but inside out and he said yeah

01:19:18   that's you know the the description of

01:19:20   the chips they're using for the a sexist

01:19:22   yeah that should be twice as fast as the

01:19:24   4s which is huge

01:19:26   pretty big deal like such a tiny pack

01:19:28   I've mentioned this before and it it it

01:19:31   really you know it because I do a lot of

01:19:33   web surfing sir i read a lot of websites

01:19:34   on the phone it's a one of the main

01:19:36   things i do i would buy an iphone if if

01:19:38   it was the only a pinhead with safari I

01:19:40   would be happy i would miss all the

01:19:42   other stuff but I could get by

01:19:43   I and it's like it's easy to forget it

01:19:47   as we often waiting for the network if

01:19:49   you have spotty connection or whatever

01:19:51   but it's easy to forget just how much of

01:19:53   the time it takes when you're loading

01:19:55   web page is the phone rendering the HTML

01:19:58   like it's actually because our computers

01:20:01   have gotten so fast at it that they

01:20:02   don't take much time to render a page

01:20:05   where is the phone still does like when

01:20:07   you load the new york times com

01:20:09   it takes time for the phone to just

01:20:11   render it let alone the network so 2x

01:20:14   improvement in speed is is huge i think

01:20:17   i want to know what what to do next like

01:20:19   what kind of engineering internal

01:20:22   engineering they do next I'm still very

01:20:25   obsessed about that i think you know

01:20:27   let's like before we go I think we

01:20:30   should we should really take a minute

01:20:33   and applaud the radio engineering which

01:20:36   is gone into it like that just multiple

01:20:39   bands across multiple networks more

01:20:43   Wi-Fi

01:20:44   yeah i just think that is yeoman's work

01:20:47   and it's smaller yeah i think though

01:20:50   that the people will get no credit no

01:20:53   they're never on stage

01:20:55   nobody talks about them but those those

01:20:58   people who worked wonders

01:21:00   you know the networking like networking

01:21:03   is the the blood and nerves of any

01:21:08   connected device and I think that is so

01:21:10   important

01:21:11   having that like I was just blown away

01:21:13   by the the amount of stuff they've

01:21:16   crammed into that little device

01:21:18   yeah and I also wondered that now it

01:21:20   supports bluetooth 4.0 which is

01:21:23   everybody I I don't know much about but

01:21:25   everybody tells me everything I've seen

01:21:27   about it is that it's really going to be

01:21:29   a big deal because it's low so low power

01:21:32   and now you just leave it on you can

01:21:33   just leave it on instead of worrying

01:21:35   about turning it on turn it off you

01:21:37   leave it on and then other bluetooth 4.1

01:21:40   things can just push stuff to your phone

01:21:42   or whatever device has it because it's

01:21:44   always on and then you always have it

01:21:46   and you're not using this sort of it and

01:21:49   it's just so low power that you have to

01:21:51   worry about leaving it right but they

01:21:52   didn't have any demo they have bluetooth

01:21:54   4.0 but they didn't have anything to do

01:21:57   with it so that's what makes me they

01:21:58   wouldn't have put it in if they don't

01:22:00   have you

01:22:01   mrs. in mind I think music is number one

01:22:04   in my opinion I think he can have you

01:22:07   know job own dark job jambox right i

01:22:11   don't like I listen to it all the time

01:22:13   like when I'm in the bathroom like turn

01:22:15   on my you know pipe my music through

01:22:19   bluetooth and it's ok but it runs down

01:22:21   the phone really fast and they just live

01:22:24   a waterphone so but i think it is that

01:22:28   there is also you can do a lot of you

01:22:30   know bluetooth bluetooth you know

01:22:33   connectivity like you can do five

01:22:37   transfers which is important like

01:22:38   there's a lot of applications which are

01:22:40   going to come up it might actually be

01:22:42   you know bluetooth might actually

01:22:45   average moment under the Sun right now

01:22:47   huh

01:22:48   it's a technology which is always

01:22:50   deliver less than it should have

01:22:53   the other thing I would point out just

01:22:57   as one big like ya in person it really

01:23:00   really stands out is the display and

01:23:03   that it it to me instantly looks better

01:23:07   than the iphone 4 4 s display and a

01:23:09   couple of regards first the integrating

01:23:13   the touch sensors into the same layer as

01:23:17   the display absolutely noticeably puts

01:23:21   the pixels closer to the surface and

01:23:24   that was the thing I really focused on

01:23:26   two years ago in the iphone 4 came out

01:23:28   was how much closer to the surface the

01:23:30   pixels were then on the original iphone

01:23:33   in the three in the 3g s 3g and 3gs I

01:23:37   feel like this is that big of its is big

01:23:39   again a leap towards painting the pixels

01:23:42   on the surface like it it's as to me is

01:23:45   as big a step forward as the retina

01:23:47   display the original one was to getting

01:23:49   the pixels on the surface this one is

01:23:52   again I i SAT there at the the table in

01:23:55   the demo area and like called the phone

01:23:57   sideways and I'm like.he it it's pretty

01:24:00   thin it's really thin and now I look at

01:24:02   my own personal iphone 4s right here and

01:24:05   I see all this parallax between the the

01:24:07   glass and the pixels underneath so let

01:24:10   me ask you a question what's your take

01:24:11   on the connector I

01:24:14   think that they could the new connector

01:24:16   is long overdue

01:24:18   I can't believe that they lasted the old

01:24:19   one lasted as long as it did I think

01:24:21   it's ugly and I think it was a ton appel

01:24:23   like design and I think that it was a

01:24:25   bunch of compromises to that made sense

01:24:29   in 2003 but it's just it was just ugly I

01:24:32   mean it has sharp edges it was all

01:24:34   exposed it it makes the the hole in the

01:24:38   phone is way too big it's always filled

01:24:40   with dust and it's like real gross in

01:24:42   there it just looks weird

01:24:44   yeah I just always thought it was a

01:24:45   weird-looking adapter so I think that

01:24:48   it's just been long overdue to be

01:24:51   replaced i mean compared to the original

01:24:52   like the original ipod shipped in 2001

01:24:55   with firewire because it was Mac only

01:24:58   and all Max had fire fire was a really

01:25:00   nice port it was it had like a shape

01:25:05   that you couldn't put it in wrong and

01:25:06   you couldn't guess wrong and it went in

01:25:09   and made like a nice it was a nice

01:25:11   feeling that was Dick he wouldn't you

01:25:13   know none of the modern ipods and

01:25:14   iphones could ever use a firewire

01:25:16   connected two or three times too thick

01:25:17   but it just was a knife to me that's an

01:25:21   eye apple-like port firewire and USB is

01:25:25   just a little weird looking it's not as

01:25:27   nice it's not bad for the pc industry

01:25:29   it's actually a pretty good-looking port

01:25:31   but I thought even just a USB plug is

01:25:35   better-looking aesthetically then the I

01:25:38   than that 30-pin connector so I'm really

01:25:41   just surprised it took them this long

01:25:42   and the new one the Lightning port to me

01:25:45   is the epitomized epitomizes what I

01:25:48   expect from an apple custom-designed

01:25:50   port meaning you can put it in upside

01:25:53   down there is no upside down you just

01:25:55   put it in and there's nothing sharp the

01:25:57   corners are rounded off and it just

01:26:01   feels nice when it goes in it doesn't

01:26:02   feel like brittle like it's all the

01:26:05   other thing about 30 the old 30-pin was

01:26:06   always like metal-on-metal when you're

01:26:08   putting it in never liked it so is this

01:26:10   like is it a pre-approved still like the

01:26:13   standard connector for other devices to

01:26:16   i know i don't think so anymore than the

01:26:18   30-pin I think it's every bit as prize

01:26:20   areas that the 30-pin connector they're

01:26:23   like something like europe european

01:26:25   commission wanted them to conform to

01:26:28   yeah I actually don't know how they're

01:26:29   getting around that I think that the in

01:26:31   Europe there's some kind of law that you

01:26:33   have to use like a standard the

01:26:36   connector which more or less it means

01:26:38   you have to use the USB micro USB or

01:26:41   mini USB and i have no idea how they're

01:26:43   getting around that maybe by shipping

01:26:44   and free adapter i think maybe that's

01:26:46   the loophole is that as long as you have

01:26:47   an adapter your you your you comply with

01:26:51   the law

01:26:52   I don't know I think I'm a little bummed

01:26:56   out about like all my accessories are

01:26:58   going to be pretty useless now you have

01:27:00   a lot of accessories see I don't have a

01:27:02   lot of accessories so a lot of stuff

01:27:04   it's just like really I mean God like

01:27:07   you know so like that would prevent me

01:27:09   from buying a new phone

01:27:10   it's just like oh I like to change this

01:27:13   and that like oh my god I don't want to

01:27:15   do that so you're not gonna buy it I'm

01:27:17   not gonna buy like you know like i don't

01:27:20   know i do think and I really do believe

01:27:23   it i don't think it's BS spend just to

01:27:27   get you to buy adapters and get on board

01:27:29   that i really do think that they

01:27:31   couldn't make that it was limiting out

01:27:33   then they could make the devices and

01:27:35   maybe they could have made this new

01:27:39   iphone 5 with the old dock connector but

01:27:42   i don't think there's any way that they

01:27:43   could have made the new ipods any of

01:27:46   them

01:27:46   the nano or the touch with the documents

01:27:50   just there to thin the Newton the GNU

01:27:52   touch new ipod touches so then there's

01:27:54   no way that they could have made it with

01:27:56   the old adapter i think they could have

01:27:59   easily gone the route of micro USB and

01:28:01   it would have been okay when you don't

01:28:04   really have to do a lot of things that

01:28:05   we like to real people by non apple

01:28:09   accessories if it has micro USB

01:28:12   probably not well that is a good

01:28:14   question what they would they lose

01:28:16   something if they had gone with micro

01:28:18   USB I think this one might be stronger i

01:28:21   think one of the problems with micro USB

01:28:22   is it hard to make a doc and I've heard

01:28:25   from other people who have had fun

01:28:26   because I speculate and it was actually

01:28:28   on that old episode of the talk show

01:28:29   where I said talking about ranting about

01:28:32   how ugly the 30-pin adapter that adapter

01:28:35   ism you know maybe they should go with

01:28:37   something like micro USB and somebody

01:28:38   said that you can have like a phone that

01:28:39   has that

01:28:40   port and you have a dock for it gets

01:28:42   bent very easily

01:28:44   ok you know I'll give you that yes I

01:28:47   don't know but I can't vouch for that

01:28:49   because i don't have a dr USB well but

01:28:52   that was it that was like my one quibble

01:28:54   for now but i think it was overdue and I

01:28:56   feel like the longer they waited maybe I

01:28:58   still think i would have been better if

01:28:59   they could have moved sooner because

01:29:01   then there'd be fewer the longer they

01:29:03   waited the more peripherals they were

01:29:05   out there more cars there were with the

01:29:07   car kit you don't need this adapter and

01:29:13   I don't know I wonder how many of those

01:29:14   adapters people will need because the

01:29:16   other thing you might need maybe you

01:29:18   could just get by with the cable because

01:29:19   all you know the cable that comes with

01:29:22   the phone has regular USB on one side

01:29:25   and the Newport on the other so for all

01:29:27   of your power chargers and stuff like

01:29:29   that

01:29:30   as long as you're plugging in USB you

01:29:32   don't need an adapter right you know i

01:29:34   have one observation and the iphone from

01:29:37   a business perspective I think the from

01:29:41   3gs to refer we went from 2g to 3g it

01:29:47   was an obvious upgrade from 3gs 24 it

01:29:51   was an obvious upgrade for s25 it's not

01:29:57   really that clear and obvious upgrade i

01:29:59   think apple may have some work cut out

01:30:01   for them

01:30:02   ah well I I've long thought I really

01:30:05   think that they designed with the

01:30:06   two-year contract in mind and I feel

01:30:08   like they're not really shooting to have

01:30:10   a phone i do i'm an idiot I I mean

01:30:13   totally i'm going to buy a new one every

01:30:15   year I bought whenever you're so far but

01:30:16   I'm not over near and i'm not even close

01:30:19   to being a normal iphone consumer I

01:30:21   think for normal ones they are very very

01:30:23   keenly looking at the two-year contract

01:30:28   cycle and getting people to you know the

01:30:31   I don't think they expect people with an

01:30:34   iphone 4s to upgrade just like I don't

01:30:37   think they've ever expected people with

01:30:38   last year's phone to get the new 1i

01:30:40   really down right well i think that

01:30:43   would be still I do think that would be

01:30:45   something to watch for like over the

01:30:47   next couple of months the most

01:30:49   interesting news in my opinion of the

01:30:51   entire day

01:30:52   the free iPhone 4 mm it looks like for

01:30:56   us right feels like for us all your

01:30:59   friends have a you know you will never

01:31:01   feel like right like lesser person

01:31:04   because you have an iphone4 right in

01:31:06   terms of the iphone as a status is what

01:31:09   who

01:31:09   it basically it's the worst news

01:31:12   possible for nokia windows 8 ecosystem

01:31:16   and the part of the blackberry ecosystem

01:31:19   not i'm not so sure how it impacts the

01:31:22   Android but the two weakest players

01:31:25   should be really worried about the free

01:31:27   iPhone 4

01:31:28   yeah and i have i still wonder i wonder

01:31:30   how many of those they sell and I know

01:31:31   that that the new the best-selling model

01:31:34   is the highest one and the best-selling

01:31:35   model for the next 20 years

01:31:36   assuredly is going to be the iphone 5

01:31:38   even though it's more expensive but i do

01:31:41   think that those free phones are I think

01:31:45   they're definitely important and i still

01:31:47   think a lot of people it's a lot of

01:31:48   times people maybe even go into the

01:31:50   store thinking that's what they're going

01:31:51   to get you know I'm going to get that

01:31:52   free iPhone 4 and then they get talked

01:31:54   into a ninety nine dollar upgrade to the

01:31:56   4s look at all these you know nvm knows

01:31:59   we have out there you never spent a

01:32:01   bunch of them that is prepared you know

01:32:03   come in a contract I mean iphone 4 on

01:32:06   prepaid contract for two years well any

01:32:08   other big thing with the iphone for

01:32:11   taking over as the free one is that now

01:32:16   they've got it at verizon and sprint

01:32:17   because the 3gs was only gsm right so in

01:32:22   the u.s. it was only an AT&T now they've

01:32:24   got one and all three of the major

01:32:26   carriers and I think that's and that's a

01:32:28   huge factory so now you can go into a

01:32:30   verizon store and get a free iphone that

01:32:32   I think that is the the probably the

01:32:35   required earthquake that was unleashed

01:32:39   in the market right now be fun to see

01:32:41   what that does and i also think that it

01:32:44   does it tightens up i mean in the 3gs

01:32:46   served Apple very well I mean it's you

01:32:49   know it's the first iphone that they did

01:32:52   the thing where they keep it around year

01:32:53   after year after year who knows how many

01:32:56   magazines of them they had but it really

01:32:59   was long in the tooth to never retina

01:33:00   display and it didn't look like an

01:33:02   iPhone like I feel like this sort of

01:33:04   this form factor this rectangles and

01:33:08   sort of straight edges look sort of has

01:33:11   become the iphone brand and now all

01:33:14   iphones that you can buy today have that

01:33:16   same visual brand take it doesn't need a

01:33:19   logo on the front there's no apple logo

01:33:21   on the front doesn't say iphone on the

01:33:22   front because the phone itself is the

01:33:25   representation of the brand right yeah

01:33:28   actually be very fun to see how that

01:33:30   does you know there's a lot of second

01:33:32   gear carriers who would make a lot of

01:33:35   money on that thing just regency like

01:33:38   law all these regional carriers they

01:33:40   will sell a ton of those i'm pretty

01:33:44   excited to see the outcome of that move

01:33:46   so the other the other change to and you

01:33:49   were praising their antenna design you

01:33:50   know across the board but now they've

01:33:52   gotten away from the external antenna

01:33:54   design where now the exit did the

01:33:56   outside is still metal but it's a it's

01:33:59   all just unibody it's all just there for

01:34:01   the frame which means there's no longer

01:34:05   any kind of need for a bumper or a case

01:34:09   for that and ten you know the whole

01:34:10   antennagate attenuation issue so Apple

01:34:14   isn't selling bumpers anymore

01:34:16   the bumpers are maybe there's still

01:34:17   something for the older ones but there's

01:34:19   no bumpers for this phone

01:34:21   no that's what I have no idea what

01:34:24   they're selling for this one I'm going

01:34:26   to be breaking up at like midnight on

01:34:28   friday and put in my order in like

01:34:32   everybody else so i have no clue tell

01:34:35   them you know the other thing which is

01:34:39   interesting about this event was was I

01:34:45   just still think that the the the

01:34:48   end-to-end unification of the production

01:34:52   and the design language and

01:34:55   manufacturing processes is going to

01:34:57   drive down the costs are doing business

01:35:00   for this company

01:35:01   I think that's the mean night I think

01:35:03   it's the key i think is the key part of

01:35:05   their insane compared to everybody else

01:35:07   profit margins is the way that they they

01:35:11   they get these sort of spend a ton of

01:35:15   money to make the first one

01:35:18   but then make so many of them that it

01:35:20   gets cheap right eye and another thing

01:35:22   one of the way I keep thinking of other

01:35:24   things for my notes here but another

01:35:25   thing this is the first time this year

01:35:28   that the ipod touch the new ipod touch

01:35:31   has the exact same display as the new

01:35:34   phone so like that the 4th generation

01:35:37   ipod touch had a Retina display and had

01:35:40   the exact same size and pixel density as

01:35:43   the iphone four for us but it wasn't the

01:35:45   same display anybody's ever looked at an

01:35:47   ipod touch and iphone 4 4 s side-by-side

01:35:50   knows it the colors are a little bit

01:35:51   more washed-out just isn't quite as nice

01:35:53   that I i double-checked with the pr at

01:35:57   the hands-on area what jobs react set on

01:35:59   stage was exactly true is the exact same

01:36:01   display right and it's surely more

01:36:05   expensive and I think that's why the

01:36:06   starting prices on those new ipod

01:36:08   touches are higher that they don't have

01:36:10   one of those at 199 I but there's got to

01:36:13   be a huge efficiency there where they're

01:36:16   only making 14 inch display and no

01:36:20   matter how many you know millions of

01:36:22   each device they sell its one display

01:36:24   right and they just keep cranking them

01:36:26   out and they have two chips a5 and a6 s6

01:36:29   at the top right and lower end is all 85

01:36:33   like the using up all whatever is right

01:36:35   now and like next year

01:36:37   everything will be a six right that's

01:36:39   pretty it's like very exactly what Intel

01:36:42   used to do right like a charge a lot of

01:36:44   money for the the pentium trees and

01:36:46   pentium fours and the pentium celeron

01:36:49   was selling cheaply and but then two

01:36:52   years later you use that same technology

01:36:53   and that was the high-end try to do

01:36:56   something else now you're making it as

01:36:58   the low end but you can make it it's

01:36:59   almost like you can make it with your

01:37:01   eyes closed at they got more start

01:37:02   working for that home

01:37:05   thank you for being here John honored to

01:37:07   be on your podcast it's great show i

01:37:09   listen to it every we can to love mylife

01:37:13   big i was i I wish I could do this every

01:37:16   week and have my guest here in person i

01:37:17   feel like this was much more personable

01:37:19   after open to help it

01:37:20   hope it sounds like that when you listen

01:37:22   to the show it's way better than

01:37:24   doing it over skype absolutely and see

01:37:27   you in San Francisco relatively soon

01:37:30   yeah I think so yeah I didn't get up

01:37:33   alright thanks