The Talk Show

18: Instawhatsit, with Marco Arment


00:00:00   ok well i am i'm convinced that at some

00:00:02   point during the show we're going to be

00:00:03   interrupted by some device nearby me

00:00:07   making noises because it's I've got too

00:00:10   many too many phones

00:00:12   yeah i was messing with my website

00:00:14   configuration about an hour ago and and

00:00:17   I I cause some downtime and I have like

00:00:19   four devices vibrate with some kind of

00:00:20   alert but you're telling me about this

00:00:22   it's it's crazy and I've got wires

00:00:25   everywhere all they're all white and

00:00:27   different ends on the meta yeah it's a

00:00:32   weird and unique time of the year like

00:00:36   the new iphone just got into my hands

00:00:38   time and my personal iphone just came

00:00:43   here yesterday just got it yesterday so

00:00:46   now it's like this is this is like the

00:00:48   worst because i had been using on a

00:00:52   daily basis the review unit iphone from

00:00:55   apple but I still had my personal iphone

00:00:59   4 ass and now I've got my new one which

00:01:06   I've restored and now i'm just going to

00:01:08   use that one but I find I have so much

00:01:12   affection for my old 4s that I and I've

00:01:16   died this is the first year really been

00:01:18   conscious of it but I've done it the

00:01:19   everyb previous year to that for a day

00:01:21   or two I keep it running and sometimes I

00:01:24   put in my other pants pocket and walk

00:01:26   around with both phones but I mind still

00:01:29   on my desk but I haven't the only thing

00:01:31   I used it forward had to set up some

00:01:32   kind of some dark accessories yesterday

00:01:34   that didn't work with the Lightning plug

00:01:36   so i had to use the 4s but but yeah I

00:01:39   mean I i still have almost all my old

00:01:41   phones I I keep one of every generation

00:01:42   so whenever whenever TIFF and I have the

00:01:46   same one then I'll end up selling one of

00:01:47   those once you know once we move on but

00:01:49   i still have all of all mine because I

00:01:52   don't mean my excuse so far has been for

00:01:54   testing but i'm a little bit sentimental

00:01:57   but some of them except 3g I was a piece

00:01:59   of crap that what kind of was that was

00:02:02   fun getting rid of the head but I have

00:02:04   to keep my 3gs for testing but even even

00:02:05   when that's I might keep that afterwards

00:02:08   I don't know but like I have my original

00:02:09   iphone sitting in the drawer I haven't

00:02:11   turned on and probably a year because i

00:02:13   can't can't run anything on anymore but

00:02:15   but get any do it they're the ones i

00:02:18   could probably get rid of everything

00:02:19   except the original the original i still

00:02:22   like to take out and just I don't turn

00:02:24   it even turn it on i just put in my hand

00:02:26   and feel it and now it you know and

00:02:29   there's still something and I know like

00:02:31   I know cable sasser I don't know if he

00:02:34   still feels this way but i know that

00:02:35   when the four first came out he was a

00:02:37   real stay even after used it for a while

00:02:40   was not a fan of the harsh corners and I

00:02:44   know Edward Tufte tough to got it on

00:02:49   I've no idea today but I know that he's

00:02:51   he he does not like the corners you know

00:02:54   he's complained about and and not like

00:02:56   hey he just got his first iPhone 4 or 4s

00:02:59   or now five with the corners and like a

00:03:02   day or two when he's complaining about

00:03:03   it you know after he's been using it for

00:03:06   a while actually and he was Benny was

00:03:07   singing the praises of the retina

00:03:09   display and about how much more detail

00:03:11   you can put in you know that this is you

00:03:13   know it's fantastic but he also said you

00:03:15   know why in the world did they go away

00:03:16   from them around edges

00:03:18   I don't mind it I like that the sharp

00:03:20   edges but there is something to be said

00:03:21   about the the round edges of the

00:03:23   original and every bothered me i don't

00:03:26   know what you actually wanted bottom

00:03:28   about the original is it got so hot i

00:03:30   never noticed like I guess sometimes on

00:03:32   edge it did well it was only edge

00:03:35   yeah but I'm saying I'm saying when I

00:03:37   and when I was using it on edge not like

00:03:40   it's rather than what exactly when i was

00:03:42   like i'm using a lot of data on the

00:03:44   cellular network

00:03:45   yeah yeah i did notice that and and I

00:03:48   haven't the new one the five I haven't

00:03:49   noticed they're really getting hot at

00:03:51   all and me I don't even know if it's

00:03:53   gotten warm like you know it's hard to

00:03:54   tell when you're using it for awhile

00:03:55   whether it's warm because your hand on

00:03:56   it or whether it's generating heat from

00:03:59   inside that you can actually detect but

00:04:01   seems like i've used mine out a lot

00:04:03   already and it seems pretty solid pretty

00:04:05   a pretty elegant you know it's the a

00:04:08   six-man I I think Apple really

00:04:11   underplayed the asic i do to the

00:04:13   presentation because it's so far from

00:04:15   what we know about you know like like an

00:04:17   and texturing these benchmarks trying to

00:04:19   figure out what it is

00:04:20   it looks like it's really awesome and it

00:04:23   makes the a5x like a piece of crap yeah

00:04:25   it really does i got and I know there's

00:04:27   a bunch of stuff I'd listen to 2 the

00:04:30   latest episode of building analyze I

00:04:33   couldn't you was that from earlier this

00:04:35   week eranda like monday i was 42 now you

00:04:38   pointed out there that that it's

00:04:40   significantly and noticeably faster cpu

00:04:42   wise than the current ipad parentheses

00:04:46   three and closed parenthesis and and the

00:04:50   ipad 3 needs more speed because you know

00:04:53   as i mentioned i'm sure i'm not gonna go

00:04:54   too far into it here but it got this

00:04:57   huge boost of all those extra all the

00:04:59   extra GPU power from the 5x but it's the

00:05:01   same cpu and a lot of graphical

00:05:03   operations still run on the CPU like

00:05:05   things that aren't fully

00:05:06   hardware-accelerated and and one of the

00:05:08   things that that hits me with with

00:05:11   instapaper was that page to animation

00:05:13   because i have to capture the image of

00:05:15   one page before it turns away so i can

00:05:17   scroll the webview underneath it

00:05:20   oops i just told all my competitors are

00:05:21   today well they don't like that during

00:05:24   that they listened to your show

00:05:26   if you listen to my show they would have

00:05:28   submitted voiceover updates all right

00:05:29   but the fact but doing like some of

00:05:33   those graphical operations that I do

00:05:34   with the pagination are done on the cpu

00:05:37   and so when I had three can I was the

00:05:39   first time a new device made something

00:05:41   in my app slower and because it was all

00:05:44   these look way more pixels you know four

00:05:46   times as many pixels but roughly the

00:05:49   same cpu speed is the ipad 2 and that

00:05:51   was that was the skepticism of the whole

00:05:53   before they came out with the retina

00:05:55   iPad the skepticism was from people who

00:05:58   know their shit you know people like you

00:06:01   who are do developers who are writing

00:06:03   code that does things like the page curl

00:06:06   animations for game developers there's a

00:06:08   lot of skepticism about I just really i

00:06:11   don't know that's an awful lot of pixels

00:06:13   right i mean just in all sorts of ways

00:06:15   putting them through the cpu justjust

00:06:19   everything in and out of video memory i

00:06:23   think people underestimate just how

00:06:24   aggressive it is to have that many

00:06:25   pixels on a tablet

00:06:27   oh yeah and I mean that mean pixel

00:06:29   anything like we've seen we even see now

00:06:31   with the retina macbook pro

00:06:33   that that you know one of the biggest

00:06:35   bottlenecks in the retina macbook pro is

00:06:37   the GPU just pushing that many pixels

00:06:39   and and so I think the one reason and is

00:06:41   that the ipad was always a head of the

00:06:45   iphone cpu wise is a couple reasons one

00:06:48   it needed it because it's had bigger

00:06:50   screen and to it physically has more

00:06:53   room for it you know there's a ginormous

00:06:56   battery in there compared to the iphone

00:06:57   and you know it's just easier place to

00:07:01   put a bigger cpu or system-on-a-chip oh

00:07:04   definitely and and I also they they sell

00:07:07   way fewer iPads an iphone so if there's

00:07:09   any kind of manufacturing yield issues

00:07:12   or potential issues like if it's a new

00:07:14   process or a new architecture it's

00:07:17   generally easier for them i would

00:07:19   imagine to run at first on the ipad and

00:07:21   then launched on the iphone later which

00:07:22   is what they've done until now right

00:07:24   this is the first time that an iphone is

00:07:26   faster than the ipad yeah it's it's

00:07:29   really amazing and i do think that they

00:07:31   underplayed attending one of the reasons

00:07:32   maybe is that you can say it on stage

00:07:38   but it's not really demo ball you know

00:07:41   you just say faster and it just sounds

00:07:43   like marketing PAP you no one even if

00:07:46   even if they said oh this is a custom

00:07:48   design thing well technically the a4 and

00:07:51   a5 were custom in the way that you know

00:07:53   they were custom arranged in the package

00:07:54   but you know the cores weren't really

00:07:56   customized but you know and i think

00:07:58   that's a level of detail that you know

00:08:00   the press wouldn't have really

00:08:01   appreciate high time and I think people

00:08:03   underestimate if you really think about

00:08:05   we're so used to apple giving these good

00:08:07   introduction event but I think it's

00:08:09   really really hard to write them to

00:08:11   structure them into pick what your eggs

00:08:13   actually going to say because I know

00:08:15   that if it were me I would have been

00:08:17   lazy and the thing i would have said is

00:08:19   at first just before it even got into

00:08:22   what it does just in terms of the build

00:08:24   i would have just said you have to feel

00:08:27   it you have to feel it you just gotta

00:08:29   put in your hand and feel how light it

00:08:31   is and feel and everybody who gets one

00:08:33   that's what this is what everybody says

00:08:35   is what Amy said when I first showed it

00:08:36   to her

00:08:37   everybody who first picks it was like I

00:08:39   can't believe what it feels like

00:08:41   but they don't say that right they talk

00:08:43   about specific stuff about the microns

00:08:45   in the build quality

00:08:47   because I feel like saying you have to

00:08:48   feel it it it it doesn't sound it is

00:08:52   true but it doesn't sound true it sounds

00:08:53   like just this type of marketing stuff

00:08:56   anybody would say yeah and I mean maybe

00:08:59   that's why you know they probably

00:09:00   assumed that if they say it no one's

00:09:02   really gonna believe them right

00:09:04   whereas if everyone who picks one up

00:09:06   says that that's a different story

00:09:07   that's more powerful

00:09:08   yeah i love the thing I I still it's

00:09:12   still almost like the for the whole

00:09:14   first day or two that I had it it felt

00:09:16   kind of fake and I was a little worried

00:09:18   about dropping it just as it was so

00:09:19   light i figured like it's you know that

00:09:21   you said it's like picking up an empty

00:09:22   shell like it really is it feels like

00:09:25   you're picking up just an iphone case

00:09:26   you nowhere with no iphone in it I

00:09:30   actually but now I'm used to and man it

00:09:33   was getting used to the tall screen was

00:09:35   fast

00:09:36   like now I I so I've so quickly got to

00:09:39   the point where when I look at the

00:09:40   iphone 4 again

00:09:41   it looked ridiculously short to me that

00:09:43   it took me like three days yeah and I

00:09:46   kind of touched on this on in my review

00:09:48   and part of it is my personality is that

00:09:50   I am just an inveterate procrastinator

00:09:52   so I wrote you know the the embargo was

00:09:55   tuesday evening i wrote the review all

00:09:58   day Tuesday comment you know cleared the

00:10:00   scheduled didn't didn't post much during

00:10:02   the day and I'd I pretty much wrote the

00:10:04   Hawaiian notes that I've been taking

00:10:06   just scribbles like my notes look like

00:10:08   crazy person notes and i just wrote it

00:10:11   all on Tuesday but I almost think that I

00:10:14   had to though because my opinion of it

00:10:16   had evolved significantly from the first

00:10:19   few days and honestly I still I still

00:10:23   look back and and sort of wistfully look

00:10:28   back at the days before i was getting

00:10:30   these things in advance and I would just

00:10:32   write reviews whenever I was ready and I

00:10:36   kind of feel like I wish I had more time

00:10:38   still had more time with the device

00:10:40   because it still hasn't really settled

00:10:41   in

00:10:42   yeah I think that's kind of a problem

00:10:44   with with a lot of the way the way the

00:10:46   tech press operates is that a lot of

00:10:49   these products you know you really want

00:10:51   a little bit longer term review but

00:10:53   everyone with everyone interested in

00:10:55   reading the review when the thing comes

00:10:56   out but there's so many you know

00:10:57   anything any such a mobile product

00:11:00   you kind of need to have it for a while

00:11:02   you need to do you need to go different

00:11:03   places with it you need to maybe go on

00:11:04   go on vacation or something to see how

00:11:06   it performs there and and you know maybe

00:11:08   go to a conference I mean you know to

00:11:10   get like a a good feel for how how good

00:11:13   this thing is or how it works with your

00:11:14   life and our how it works and we're in

00:11:17   different types of situations rather

00:11:19   than you know you get the review unit

00:11:21   and you gotta write your review in two

00:11:22   days and and that's you know it's it's

00:11:26   definitely hard to you know as you as

00:11:29   you know you said it's probably hard to

00:11:30   really get a good review of it out then

00:11:34   but if you don't do it then like if

00:11:37   you're a big site like one of the big

00:11:38   gadget sites they have to get an

00:11:40   out-of-date one like that's what that's

00:11:43   what their audience demands there and

00:11:44   they're competing on day one with all

00:11:46   the other publications New York Times

00:11:47   Wall Street Journal they have to get

00:11:49   theirs out on day one because that's

00:11:50   what people demand from them and I look

00:11:53   you're in this kind of weird halfway

00:11:55   spot where you're on you know if you're

00:11:59   on Apple's good side of the pr with the

00:12:01   PR stuff so you get the review units in

00:12:03   advance but your audience is more people

00:12:07   like me who would appreciate the longer

00:12:10   term review but like how do you balance

00:12:12   that that's good that's got to be

00:12:13   difficult

00:12:14   well six days is not bad you know and

00:12:17   it's it's just you know and part of it

00:12:19   is you just have to be you know and it's

00:12:21   the luxury of being a you know that i do

00:12:22   this site full time they don't have

00:12:24   anything else to do that i know i knew

00:12:25   that i could spend all day Tuesday

00:12:26   writing it you know and if I have

00:12:30   evolving thoughts as I go forward I can

00:12:32   just write something new I guess but I i

00:12:35   found with the things and i know you

00:12:36   were talking about it on on your show

00:12:37   you know stuff like reaching with the

00:12:41   thumb it really changes as you use the

00:12:44   device it you know just to give me but

00:12:47   you need a couple days and i'll tell you

00:12:48   what my day one response was i I the

00:12:52   draft in my head that I was writing lad

00:12:54   to Wednesday's ago the first day that I

00:12:56   had the device the review unit was boy

00:12:59   i'm really i'm gonna have to trash the

00:13:01   4-inch screen

00:13:03   I really thought it was a disaster the

00:13:05   first day I for exactly the reasons that

00:13:07   i had worried about all along ever since

00:13:09   it was rumored

00:13:10   because i kept missing the buttons in

00:13:13   the top corner and you know by tuesday

00:13:15   it was way less of an issue and even by

00:13:18   now

00:13:20   a week later it's it's really almost a

00:13:23   non-issue

00:13:24   yeah I I don't really have any trouble

00:13:27   with it after about an hour of I guess I

00:13:29   i my my grip adapted well for it i guess

00:13:31   but i think if there's one thing I would

00:13:33   change if I could go back and change my

00:13:34   review I would probably actually less

00:13:36   than that criticism even now on another

00:13:39   week later I find that the thumb

00:13:41   coverage is a lot less yeah and i really

00:13:45   do think in a way and I've used like

00:13:48   I've used the the Galaxy Nexus can

00:13:53   always forget if it's nexusgalaxy or

00:13:54   whatever the hell it's called doesn't

00:13:56   matter but I've used it for two weeks at

00:13:57   least two weeks where it was my primary

00:13:59   phone and I never ever got used to the

00:14:01   screen size on that device but i will

00:14:04   say but also to Android's credit they

00:14:06   don't have as much stuff at the top of

00:14:08   the screen there back button is down low

00:14:10   so it actually is

00:14:13   it's an operating system that is better

00:14:14   suited to bigger than four inch screens

00:14:18   than iOS would be but I never got that

00:14:21   causes other problems like with the

00:14:22   keyboard i never got you are never found

00:14:25   it comfortable to use one-handed or two

00:14:27   like some type one handed and i think

00:14:31   that you know this this should and

00:14:33   probably will affect people's design

00:14:34   decisions with iOS apps in particular I

00:14:37   well and I you know we talked to my show

00:14:39   like I don't do you hold your phone your

00:14:40   left hand

00:14:41   no well i'd i'd go I i use it both ways

00:14:45   usually right-handed though I keep it in

00:14:47   my right pocket and I jeff i'm using it

00:14:49   one-handed generally it's it is in my

00:14:51   right hand but you know sometimes I'll

00:14:52   use my left hand so I mentioned my show

00:14:55   that even though I'm right-handed I keep

00:14:57   my phone in my left pocket and i and i

00:14:59   use it when i'm using it one-handed it

00:15:01   is with my left hand holding the phone

00:15:02   and using my left thumb across the

00:15:04   screen and apparently like I've gotten

00:15:06   so many crazy Twitter replies from

00:15:09   people either saying that's really weird

00:15:11   why do you do that when you're

00:15:12   right-handed or people saying oh my god

00:15:14   do the same thing so it seems like

00:15:16   people are very spoon this but if you

00:15:17   hold your phone with your left hand the

00:15:19   most difficult spot to reach with your

00:15:21   thumb is probably the upper right corner

00:15:22   right

00:15:23   and.and I am and I guess it's a big

00:15:26   problem if you hold with your right hand

00:15:27   is then you're missing you're missing

00:15:29   all the back buttons in the upper left

00:15:30   corner that would be a bigger problem i

00:15:33   think but that's exactly that's an hour

00:15:35   problem that I had like I wouldn't

00:15:38   design an iphone app anymore that has

00:15:40   anything important in the upper corners

00:15:42   if I can help it but unfortunately in

00:15:44   the navigation bars do I wonder which

00:15:47   hand is more common people to use all

00:15:49   I've got to be the right hand has to be

00:15:51   yeah I think I think so but I'm weird

00:15:54   I'm my handedness is weird like I'm

00:15:56   right-handed and you know very much

00:15:59   right hand and I play all sports

00:16:00   right-handed but i use the mouse

00:16:03   left-handed so Milo that's crazy yeah

00:16:06   well i would say long story short it was

00:16:08   an RSI issue way back I mean long i mean

00:16:11   i was in college and my wrist was my

00:16:13   right wrist was just killed both wrists

00:16:15   were really killing me but my right

00:16:17   wrist and especially and even my right

00:16:19   shoulder

00:16:20   I mean and I really hate going to

00:16:23   doctors and stuff like that but I really

00:16:24   thought I I got to go to a doctor and I

00:16:25   thought you know I thought maybe

00:16:27   somebody had to have surgery or

00:16:28   something because I and I was sort of

00:16:30   terrified because I thought I don't know

00:16:31   what I'm gonna do with the rest of my

00:16:32   life if I can't use a mouse and keyboard

00:16:34   so i switched to the left-handed mouse

00:16:38   and spent like two days with from the

00:16:40   house cursor was just meaning from one

00:16:43   corner of the screen to the other but

00:16:46   then you know within three days

00:16:47   it got pretty good and I think I really

00:16:50   do think long term it's actually made my

00:16:53   left hand significantly more

00:16:55   what's the word dextrous then it was it

00:16:58   you know before I made that switch but

00:17:01   if you should try that but when i use a

00:17:02   trackpad I'd use it with my right thumb

00:17:04   multi I mean hey make both hands great

00:17:08   but anyway so I guide i use the mouse i

00:17:11   use the iphone you know whichever hand

00:17:13   is convenient but i doing what I do

00:17:17   agree though that i also find myself and

00:17:19   over two weeks I i grip the iphone

00:17:21   differently i do less of a rested on the

00:17:25   pinky and more of a complete side grip

00:17:28   I'm always afraid of it falling

00:17:30   downwards if I if I move that thing out

00:17:32   of there and don't support from bottom

00:17:34   here

00:17:34   I don't I feel like the texture of the

00:17:36   metal really lessons that I mean anyway

00:17:40   I idea my other thing that it as I've

00:17:42   used this more and more that that the

00:17:44   metal that the metallic field to me it

00:17:47   just grows fonder and fonder as the

00:17:50   weeks have gone by and it really does

00:17:52   hearken back to the original iphone in a

00:17:56   very very positive way

00:17:57   see I'm i wish the back surface was a

00:18:00   little bit more textured like even if it

00:18:02   was like a little bit less smooth metal

00:18:04   just some kind of slight great on it i

00:18:07   think would be welcomed as right now it

00:18:09   it almost feels like glorious well i

00:18:11   don't know if i would say it feels like

00:18:13   glass but I could see it being ever so

00:18:15   slightly even more textured actually

00:18:18   more slippery than the glass with with

00:18:20   your friends so you got a black one

00:18:21   yeah I did didn't tip skin black what do

00:18:23   you think about this scratch gate

00:18:27   I you know I i was i was disappointed to

00:18:30   learn but this appears to be true i was

00:18:32   disappointed to learn that the black

00:18:35   covering is really a very thin layer on

00:18:37   top right but otherwise I don't really

00:18:41   care because every Apple product from

00:18:44   like the last decade has had polished

00:18:45   metal surfaces somewhere and I don't you

00:18:48   know if if people are saying oh my god

00:18:49   the scratches well you know that that's

00:18:52   the life of a cell phone you know you

00:18:54   can put it in a big rubbery case and

00:18:56   attempt to prevent scratches and those

00:18:57   don't always work or you know you can

00:19:00   just enjoy it

00:19:01   naked and I to I like to enjoy my naked

00:19:03   i like how small is how easily goes in

00:19:05   the pocket and I I just I'm i chose a

00:19:09   couple years ago to just stop worrying

00:19:11   about scratches in and it turns out my

00:19:13   stuff is really get that scratch anyway

00:19:14   cuz i'm still careful with it right

00:19:16   I'm just you know I'm not gonna be

00:19:18   totally crushed and in fact i hope this

00:19:20   doesn't become some kind of scandal

00:19:22   because you you've heard of people like

00:19:24   opening up and they say that it's

00:19:25   scratched out of the box

00:19:27   yep i actually had time on my iphone 5 a

00:19:30   very very small like a dot a very small

00:19:34   spot of seemingly unpalatable surface on

00:19:40   the back and I now I'm looking i can't

00:19:43   even find it now but I tried like

00:19:45   rubbing it and i could not get that out

00:19:46   and so I assumed it was some kind of

00:19:48   like

00:19:48   tiny little nick in the finish and I

00:19:50   just decided not to care just like you

00:19:52   know what it's even friendly box it has

00:19:54   a little little speck that doesn't look

00:19:56   quite right

00:19:57   I don't care and now look at I can't

00:19:59   find it mine has I might have my

00:20:01   personal one that arrived yesterday is

00:20:03   black and the demo from Apple was white

00:20:06   and i always prefer black and I am so

00:20:10   happy now that I have this black 1i

00:20:11   liked it so much more but I'm glad that

00:20:13   the review unit they gave me was white

00:20:15   because I got to see it and Amy had

00:20:19   pre-ordered away when I think we still

00:20:21   could have canceled although i guess if

00:20:22   we want to cancel she would've would've

00:20:24   put our order and in the back of the

00:20:26   queue but at the very least though she

00:20:28   did get to see it and know that you know

00:20:29   feel like she made the right decision by

00:20:31   pre-ordering the white one

00:20:33   mine has a weird thing that I haven't

00:20:36   seen anybody else talk about and I don't

00:20:38   care because I'm not that obsessive

00:20:40   about it but you know the don't even

00:20:43   know what material is but it's like some

00:20:44   kind of plastic or rubber between the

00:20:47   antennas in the side the little lines

00:20:50   i'm going to add a little lines on the

00:20:51   side and they're black too but on the

00:20:56   right side on the left there just black

00:20:58   black black on the right side and this

00:21:01   is it's so subtle III there's no way i

00:21:03   could photograph it but on the chamfered

00:21:07   chamfered part it's not black it's like

00:21:10   clear it's like clear plastic on both

00:21:14   the top and the bottom just on the

00:21:16   little looking at the phones front it's

00:21:18   the right is and so it's now the front

00:21:22   or the rear chamfer front man all right

00:21:26   now I'm i can't see this time I'm gonna

00:21:28   try to photograph it later is that this

00:21:29   that's the kind of challenge like you

00:21:31   might read a lot of I don't care

00:21:33   in fact it's one of those things where I

00:21:34   feel like it makes my iphone using a

00:21:36   unique slow snowflake

00:21:38   yeah I don't think mine has that no it's

00:21:40   and it's only on the one side and it's

00:21:42   it's definitely not

00:21:44   and I've CIA you know and it's not like

00:21:46   it's not like it's likes glaring out at

00:21:48   me but it's the sort of thing that

00:21:49   obviously though there are some poor

00:21:51   people out there and I sympathize i do

00:21:53   not mock them because i have my own

00:21:55   obsessions I actually sympathize but the

00:21:58   the people who are truly obsessive about

00:22:00   being a truly perfect iphone it's the

00:22:03   sort of thing where I feel like they

00:22:04   would take it back to the store and and

00:22:06   see if they can get it swapped out and i

00:22:09   did just discovered a very small chamfer

00:22:11   scratch on one of my corners

00:22:13   yeah but I still it's just hear that

00:22:15   Mike I don't even know what you call

00:22:16   that just that little plastic buffer

00:22:18   between the engine and my frame on this

00:22:21   front chamfered edge on both the top and

00:22:24   bottom one

00:22:25   it's not black it's like clear like you

00:22:27   can kind of see that it's made out of

00:22:28   plastic but I don't think I on the other

00:22:32   side it's totally black

00:22:34   I think if they do not now that I'm

00:22:36   seeing it in person it now i have owned

00:22:38   the black one for I don't know what is

00:22:39   it a week of six days I i think it's a

00:22:43   little bit too dark on the anodized

00:22:45   aluminum like I i would have if they

00:22:48   sold one that had black glass you know a

00:22:51   black front and black glass panels but

00:22:54   the regular polished aluminum like from

00:22:56   the white 1i think I'd get that one it

00:22:59   and it actually would look more like the

00:23:00   original iphone they were well and it

00:23:02   would also look a lot more like the

00:23:03   iphone 4 and 4s

00:23:06   well the back will be all silver the

00:23:08   right from the sides would ya the sides

00:23:11   would like maybe that's why they had to

00:23:13   make it more different so that people

00:23:15   would say oh now it's a new iPhone fine

00:23:17   i don't think they really want people to

00:23:18   say that i really don't i don't think

00:23:20   that's something they're interested in

00:23:21   and I you know I think I said this last

00:23:22   week on the show with mg that I i just

00:23:26   used it out and about and nobody ever

00:23:28   said anything because people did it

00:23:30   looks so much like it i mean like OMG

00:23:32   said that like in San Francisco he got a

00:23:34   few looks because it's a little bit more

00:23:35   tech-savvy of a crowd like so he'd be

00:23:38   using it on bart or something and you

00:23:41   get like maybe somebody kind of like it

00:23:43   was at the new one weekend a week ahead

00:23:45   but you know here in Philadelphia nobody

00:23:47   noticed that my problem at the dark with

00:23:51   the darkness of the of the black metal

00:23:53   is that i can't i can't really see many

00:23:55   of the details and most indoor lighting

00:23:57   I can't like it just looks like one big

00:23:59   black slabby i did like I can't really

00:24:01   tell much of a difference between the

00:24:03   black glass and the aluminum which is

00:24:06   not quite black and charcoal or sleep

00:24:08   wherever the corner like I wish there

00:24:10   was a little bit more of a difference

00:24:11   there

00:24:12   it would look nicer when you think about

00:24:13   my theory that the home button has been

00:24:15   improved technically well your head that

00:24:18   you're right i think i fixed it probably

00:24:20   somebody I when they disassemble the

00:24:21   founders like a big metal bracket now

00:24:23   it's really reinforced and it and it

00:24:25   does it feels click here i think it

00:24:27   feels fantastic it's it so it's a much

00:24:29   more satisfying click although you were

00:24:31   wrong about one part of that you said

00:24:33   that they kept the vibrator motor from

00:24:35   the iphone 4s and that's incorrect they

00:24:37   reverted back i don't know that i stood

00:24:39   I say that our or did I just say that it

00:24:41   vibrate well I think you speculated

00:24:43   there yet but anyway that's wrong they

00:24:44   they actually change back and remember

00:24:46   you and i discovered this is at

00:24:47   singleton last year that if you if you

00:24:50   take an iphone 4s and if you if you hold

00:24:53   it like a seesaw and you tap a certain

00:24:55   part on the back then you can feel the

00:24:58   vibrator vibrating loosely in there and

00:25:00   it kind of makes it feel cheap or you

00:25:03   know somehow wrong door broken right

00:25:05   exactly but then the iphone 5 does not

00:25:08   do that anymore like that the type of

00:25:09   vibrator motor they switched to from the

00:25:11   4s does that and add a switch back to

00:25:14   the old kind which is like it's like

00:25:15   it's like a counterweighted motor that

00:25:17   spins with this offset weight so it

00:25:21   doesn't have that weird like vibrating

00:25:24   feel anymore when it's my responsibility

00:25:25   fiber that myself

00:25:26   I think it's an improvement by my right

00:25:28   thigh is gone totally defective over the

00:25:30   last five years and so when I feel

00:25:32   something vibrating and it's generally

00:25:35   not hide it and when my phone doesn't

00:25:38   vibrate half the time i do miss it

00:25:40   let's look at the Phantom vibrate is

00:25:41   actually if I that's like a real ID and

00:25:43   I am severely afflicted me tighter

00:25:46   literally of like that i also have it i

00:25:49   add a III don't know how to describe it

00:25:53   but I i tend to sleep late

00:25:55   I you know I usually wake up around 10

00:25:58   or 11 i have a thing where at least once

00:26:01   a week and our bedroom is on the second

00:26:05   the third floor

00:26:06   I have a thing where at least once a

00:26:08   week i would say easily four times a

00:26:10   month i will be woken by the doorbell

00:26:12   and know that there's you know like a

00:26:14   delivery you know fedex or UPS or

00:26:16   something like that quick throw on a

00:26:17   pair of pants and run down three flights

00:26:19   of stairs and there's nobody there and

00:26:21   sometimes Amy already being a kitchen

00:26:23   and she'll be like doorbell and I'd be

00:26:25   like yeah did it

00:26:25   and she was like nope yeah okay well i'm

00:26:29   up but that's how I get up and I hear it

00:26:32   anyway how do you know that she's not

00:26:34   just bring it to wake you uh tell me why

00:26:36   because a lot of times i do it and she's

00:26:37   not she's at the gym or something and

00:26:39   and and she's not even home now and she

00:26:44   I mean that's shoot yeah and she was she

00:26:46   couldn't be bothered to do that but I

00:26:49   hear it I hear the dye hear doorbells in

00:26:50   this sweep then that phantom ups well

00:26:54   and the other thing is that you know the

00:26:56   add the half the time it really is it is

00:26:58   fedex or UPS that's like a true nerds

00:27:01   problem right there because it's like

00:27:03   you get so many to live it's it's so

00:27:05   easy i think about we got so much stuff

00:27:07   mail order to us now it it would be so

00:27:09   easy to be a hermit

00:27:12   oh yeah but not the UPS guy stops at our

00:27:16   house almost every day like it's it's

00:27:18   very strange when we see him drive past

00:27:20   us on the very rare because could be you

00:27:23   know we we got we got everything online

00:27:24   for the most part especially now that we

00:27:26   have the baby like there's even less

00:27:28   reason to go out shopping so we know

00:27:30   amazon we have stuff coming we have

00:27:32   stuff from soap.com although you know

00:27:34   baby supplies and you know toiletries

00:27:36   and stuff and you know apple products

00:27:38   come every week or something I don't

00:27:39   know whatever whenever there's new stuff

00:27:40   and I like more seriously he's here

00:27:42   every day like Merlin's bit where the

00:27:44   unknown Merlin's likes got like a thing

00:27:45   where he signed up where you know they

00:27:47   get paper towels delivered on a regular

00:27:49   you have to order them they just show up

00:27:51   they know how many paper towels they go

00:27:52   through and so every two weeks you know

00:27:54   a new thing of paper towels comes from

00:27:56   amazon but he thinks that instead of

00:27:58   bringing it to their house they should

00:27:59   drop it off x number of blocks away so

00:28:02   he still has to walk to get them because

00:28:05   it's just so decadent having all the

00:28:09   other big thing about the Amazon

00:28:11   subscribe stuff what one of these I

00:28:12   found it was really good to do to use

00:28:14   that for and I think it's the only thing

00:28:15   i'm using it for is a the water filter

00:28:17   in my fridge because they say like I

00:28:19   change it every X months think it's six

00:28:21   months and of course nobody ever

00:28:23   remembers to do that but with mine if

00:28:25   you don't change it for a while it

00:28:26   starts slowing down and clogging up so i

00:28:28   guess to the subscribe and save them

00:28:29   with Amazon where I just have to hand

00:28:31   deliver a new water filter every six

00:28:32   months I don't have to think about it

00:28:33   when it arrives i replace it and that's

00:28:35   it

00:28:37   I want to have some exciting hit to look

00:28:40   something up here all I second here I'm

00:28:41   i remember this from last night and i

00:28:43   forgot to look it up before the show

00:28:44   here we go I what do you think about the

00:28:48   iphone 5 camera you know I haven't had a

00:28:51   chance to use it that much I mean so far

00:28:53   it seems it seems so far like it's good

00:28:58   i don't it doesn't seem in my music so

00:29:01   far that different from the 4s it's a

00:29:03   lot faster to take pictures but mostly I

00:29:05   don't know that the a6 or what but

00:29:07   that's like like when we went it was

00:29:10   deciding whether to upgrade or not she

00:29:12   wanted to do you want me to get mine

00:29:13   first you can see it and then decide and

00:29:15   at first she was thinking she was gonna

00:29:16   upgrade but what sold her on it was the

00:29:20   weight and you know the lack of weight

00:29:23   and that the speed of the camera that

00:29:26   you know it's because you know that we

00:29:27   with the baby you if you got to take a

00:29:29   good picture of the baby you really got

00:29:30   to take 20 pictures and pick the one

00:29:32   where he's looking at you you know and

00:29:35   and not making a sour face so so the

00:29:39   speed of the camera really matters to us

00:29:41   right now and if you know even if you

00:29:43   want to be which is convenient to to

00:29:44   have fast response time and it is way

00:29:49   faster but the actual image quality

00:29:51   I can't tell the difference I i saw

00:29:54   those comparison pictures you posted and

00:29:56   it seems like the differences might only

00:29:59   be in software for the most part well

00:30:01   and in low-light although that is

00:30:04   partially software partially hardware

00:30:07   because it

00:30:09   I've noticed that and I don't know if

00:30:11   it's something if it's an API that they

00:30:12   can be updated to take advantage of but

00:30:14   the new low light stuff you only is I

00:30:17   only see it when im using camera that

00:30:18   like if I take a photo in Instagram

00:30:21   I don't get it so that's interesting on

00:30:24   and it's you know what African how they

00:30:27   described it but it's more or less that

00:30:28   they're sampling for pixels at once is

00:30:32   sort of like they're sacrificing

00:30:33   resolution and christmas for to get it

00:30:38   right now yellow note right well and it

00:30:41   it is kind of a butler still it's you

00:30:43   know it's to open it up effectively open

00:30:45   it up morning and they say you get 2 2

00:30:47   full stops and I believe it I really do

00:30:50   I think

00:30:50   get two stops and it's a what is it like

00:30:52   an F 2.2 lens now I think to point out

00:30:55   to you is I'm with that thing or two is

00:30:58   it a 2.4 lens but two stops from 2.4 I

00:31:01   think would take it out like 1.8 which

00:31:03   is serious in a low-light camera area

00:31:06   and the other thing and they didn't even

00:31:08   mention this it goes too much higher iso

00:31:10   those right yeah that's the saw that

00:31:14   that's why the low-light pictures look

00:31:15   so much brighter is right there because

00:31:17   cranking up but but it sounds like if

00:31:18   they're actually doing that kind of

00:31:20   super sampling whatever the term would

00:31:21   be for that they combine the the light

00:31:24   from four different sense from four

00:31:25   different pixel sites that would be

00:31:26   remarkably effective right and it is

00:31:29   it's definitely noisy I mean you know

00:31:31   high iso and the sampling and this

00:31:34   really tiny lens

00:31:36   I mean it's definitely noisy but your

00:31:38   get you get exposures like you know wow

00:31:41   you can see what you're looking at

00:31:42   exposures in the low light that on all

00:31:45   previous iphones would have just been

00:31:46   black or you have to use the flash which

00:31:49   is horrible especially like the darker

00:31:51   it is the worst flash makes things look

00:31:54   oh yeah i think this it was one tip we

00:31:56   can get photographers using the f-15

00:31:58   never use the flash right all right

00:32:00   that's true but i would love to have an

00:32:02   option in settings app to just turn off

00:32:04   the flash just don't ever turn it on

00:32:08   well that is one of the options you have

00:32:10   in the camp in camera app you can you

00:32:12   can set it you know Otto offer on you i

00:32:14   just keep mine all have that everyone

00:32:16   that gets reset identify it's like a

00:32:17   phantom touch that you know if i

00:32:19   accidentally touched that and do it or

00:32:21   and sometimes other apps like if I'm

00:32:22   taking a picture with instagram or

00:32:24   something like that somehow the flash

00:32:25   gets turned on and and

00:32:27   I accidentally should flash photo and

00:32:29   then I'm all I'm sorry I'm sorry I'm

00:32:31   like to me that's when i get so

00:32:32   embarrassed when I don't that's what i

00:32:34   want i want to think in settings that

00:32:36   says don't turn the flash on for any

00:32:38   photograph in any app period just take

00:32:40   the other for the flashlight apps that

00:32:42   kind of have a camera into the display

00:32:43   right

00:32:44   didn't you know let that you know let

00:32:46   apps turn the LED on if they want but

00:32:48   don't let camera apps do it I don't know

00:32:49   something like that but anyway I never

00:32:51   do it and it's it you get pictures you

00:32:53   never did now this this drives me nuts

00:32:55   this is crazy i just saw this last night

00:32:57   Consumer Reports iPhone 5 review here's

00:33:01   what they say that what did they pick

00:33:03   this year to fence it to jump on the

00:33:06   claimed improvements of the iphone 5 and

00:33:08   handling low-light shots were not a

00:33:10   parent in our tests and overall quality

00:33:13   both stolen video images shot a light on

00:33:15   the iphone 5 or of comparable quality to

00:33:17   the shot the iphone 4s that they did

00:33:19   appear a little cooler with a bluish hue

00:33:21   shutter delay for both iphones seemed

00:33:23   all but instantaneous like what the hell

00:33:26   camera are they using that's okay yeah

00:33:30   that's now first there's a picture next

00:33:32   to it here let me send you the URL did

00:33:37   they not go into low enough light to

00:33:39   trigger this new mode maybe I think what

00:33:41   they did is they used some sort of

00:33:44   third-party app to take the pictures

00:33:46   because there's a picture of them taking

00:33:49   pictures and it seemed like the clock on

00:33:51   the left

00:33:52   yeah I don't think that's camera that

00:33:54   app is it it looks like there's like a a

00:33:57   status bar at the top you know that's

00:34:00   that's listed that's the more that just

00:34:02   I think that it's camera

00:34:03   yes the picture it's a I see it's

00:34:05   actually what's in the picture is well I

00:34:08   i can I don't understand how they could

00:34:09   have written this I don't understand how

00:34:11   they could say that the i think it is

00:34:14   true that in regular light broad

00:34:16   daylight typical lighting situations the

00:34:18   camera is very much equivalent to the

00:34:20   the for us you know very very hard right

00:34:23   to say one is better than the other in

00:34:24   some of my comparison shots i think the

00:34:26   4s1 look better and just because I

00:34:28   tapped you know just the luck of the

00:34:30   draw of getting slightly better sunlight

00:34:33   or tapping a better target in that the

00:34:35   building i was shooting it seemed like

00:34:36   like sometimes the f-15 was over

00:34:38   exposing the bright areas blow out the

00:34:40   high

00:34:40   it's uh you know and I don't really

00:34:42   think that they tried to make it sound

00:34:44   at any point that in regular lighting

00:34:46   situations that the new camera is all

00:34:48   that much better i mean the old one was

00:34:50   really good but that for consumer

00:34:53   reports to say that it's not better in

00:34:55   low light i don't understand i really

00:34:57   don't understand how they could say that

00:34:58   I mean to me that's crazy yeah that's it

00:35:04   I mean I wonder really what they're

00:35:06   testing was here like what were they

00:35:08   taking pictures of it because it looks

00:35:09   like in this picture that they're taking

00:35:11   pictures of a computer screen is that I

00:35:13   like your hair looks like it's very hard

00:35:15   to tell so it looks like a windows

00:35:17   computer you can see in the that looks

00:35:20   like the the clock window that they have

00:35:22   their has like a windows title bar on it

00:35:24   maybe like that the gray style I don't

00:35:27   know but it looked at it looks like

00:35:29   they're definitely taking a picture of a

00:35:31   screen there and so I have to wonder

00:35:33   like how did they how do they do

00:35:35   low-light comparison

00:35:36   did they just turn the screen like have

00:35:38   the screen show dark grey or something i

00:35:40   don't think i don't i'm curious to know

00:35:42   because you're right that there is a

00:35:44   noticeable difference in how low light

00:35:47   you can shoot in there with the iphone 5

00:35:50   and I think any review would have

00:35:52   noticed that if they if they didn't look

00:35:54   at the camera

00:35:55   yeah I really I i would like to see like

00:35:57   one of the camera sites you know like

00:35:59   dpreview.com or somebody like that you

00:36:01   honestly I think Apple should see those

00:36:03   sites with review units i think that the

00:36:06   dead the iphone and apple i think apple

00:36:08   is I think one of the the stories of the

00:36:11   next five years honestly is that Apple

00:36:14   and you know should be told samsung

00:36:17   really are going to become the top

00:36:18   camera companies in the world and and I

00:36:21   don't think that you know like nikon is

00:36:24   being completely taken by surprise here

00:36:27   because I know nikon has like a an

00:36:29   android-based phone i don't think it's

00:36:31   out yet but i don't know that they like

00:36:33   we're previewing it so they're aware of

00:36:37   that but i really do think that that the

00:36:41   cell phones are going to just blow away

00:36:44   that the standalone camera industry may

00:36:48   think they already have four for a lot

00:36:50   of it but even like you know now they

00:36:52   have this whole cat

00:36:54   glory of the small mirrorless prosumer

00:36:57   cameras and so you have the micro four

00:36:59   thirds and and then you like cannons

00:37:01   making a new one and I actually i

00:37:03   pre-ordered the cannon one the EOS m

00:37:04   because I figure out that might be

00:37:06   useful you know I have this canon lenses

00:37:08   even though you need an adapter and blah

00:37:09   blah blah i order thinking you know I i

00:37:13   would love to carry around a small

00:37:15   camera sometimes that's way better than

00:37:19   quality than the iphone and it turns out

00:37:21   you know I did that two years ago with

00:37:23   an s 90 and I just never use the thing

00:37:26   so i ended up selling it and you know I

00:37:28   have my big SLR and and the question is

00:37:31   you know what do you do to solve two to

00:37:35   solve times when you don't want to bring

00:37:37   the whole SLR with you or you don't have

00:37:38   it with you but you want something

00:37:40   higher quality then the iphone and the

00:37:43   problem is that gap keeps narrowing and

00:37:45   its narrow to the point where if you if

00:37:50   you get one of those middle cameras

00:37:52   it's like how often will you actually

00:37:53   use that thing how often will you have

00:37:55   that but not the SLR you know and and

00:37:59   for me this why i'm thinking i'm

00:38:02   probably going to cancel that pre-order

00:38:03   because I just that that that solves a

00:38:07   problem is I don't have anywhere that I

00:38:09   i know in reality you instead what i did

00:38:12   was i I got a little 40-millimeter

00:38:13   pancake lens that can really i got a

00:38:16   couple months ago and it's not amazing

00:38:18   but it's decent and and so I got that

00:38:20   little pancake lens and I just keep that

00:38:22   on the 5d and so whenever we take a trip

00:38:24   somewhere where I'm bringing like a

00:38:26   backpack with the computer and

00:38:27   everything I thought I talked the whole

00:38:28   5d in there with that lens on it yeah it

00:38:31   makes you have the exact same camera too

00:38:32   and it makes a big difference is my

00:38:33   other go to lens is is my baby and you

00:38:36   know what i'm talking about talking

00:38:37   about that the 1.25 yeah the one point w

00:38:40   mean what I'm dive blacked out

00:38:42   I've already blacked out on my memory

00:38:43   what did I pay for that what is that I

00:38:45   think it's 1600 that's a 1600 dollar

00:38:47   camera lights it is my baby but it's a

00:38:51   great lens but it's huge it's huge it is

00:38:53   how do you get f 1 point2 with a lot of

00:38:57   glass

00:38:57   oh yeah so it's a lot of glass which

00:39:00   means it's really heavy and it's a lot

00:39:01   of glass and you know it's made of glass

00:39:03   and so you do not want to drop that

00:39:05   oh yeah where is like a little pancake

00:39:09   lens of you know it'sit's 40-millimeter

00:39:10   it's 200 bucks right and it's it's a

00:39:12   pancake prime and it fits any can do

00:39:14   smell ya its if it's great you're going

00:39:16   to wear your camera around your neck all

00:39:18   day it makes a huge difference and then

00:39:21   also if you if you're putting in a back

00:39:22   into the problem with a camera is if

00:39:24   you're putting any kind of thin or

00:39:26   rectangular battle messenger bag the

00:39:28   shape of a camera with a lens mount on

00:39:29   it is like this big bulbous shape it's

00:39:31   not just flat and the the 40 millimeter

00:39:34   pancake makes it a lot flatter him

00:39:36   that's what makes it so that the only

00:39:39   see i have one right ovary

00:39:42   yes see the the the 40 millimeter lens

00:39:47   extends out from the 5d mark two just

00:39:50   about maybe a half of an inch beyond the

00:39:54   little little blob on top sellers cannon

00:39:58   points out what but that you usually

00:39:59   would be a flash if it wasn't a

00:40:01   professional camera

00:40:02   yeah so I think it's really short and so

00:40:03   it makes it fit into bags a lot better

00:40:05   just to have the reduction of of lens

00:40:08   depth with it yeah throw that thing on

00:40:10   your 5d and it kind of is your gap

00:40:12   camera right exactly and and it's you

00:40:16   know that's why I like I mean sure they

00:40:18   like the EOS m and these marrows cameras

00:40:20   they are a lot smaller than the 5d body

00:40:21   is pretty big and chunky

00:40:23   so these things are a lot smaller but

00:40:24   it's still relatively the same size

00:40:26   class it's like like it's like comparing

00:40:29   a 13-inch macbook air to a big mac book

00:40:33   pro like yeah that the air is a lot

00:40:36   smaller but it's like it's still the

00:40:38   same general size class of object so

00:40:41   chances are if you are somewhere or in

00:40:44   some situation where it's impractical or

00:40:47   impossible to carry a 13-inch macbook or

00:40:51   to carry you know a macbook pro you

00:40:53   probably also won't be carrying a

00:40:55   macbook air right similar kind of thing

00:40:57   is this if you're in a situation where

00:41:00   you can't carry an SLR with the 40

00:41:02   millimeter lens on it you probably also

00:41:04   won't have any little mirrorless camera

00:41:06   with you because they don't fit in

00:41:07   pockets right unless you have a really

00:41:09   big pockets but for the most part they

00:41:10   don't fit in pockets so if they're still

00:41:12   they start to go look in a bag or

00:41:14   something so it's still the same

00:41:15   portability class

00:41:17   absolutely agree and it's I used to

00:41:22   I'm you know as a amateur you know photo

00:41:25   enthusiasts certainly not a serious

00:41:27   photographer but you know enjoy taking

00:41:29   pictures and dan and I used to talk

00:41:32   about all the time I Rico Jesus don't

00:41:36   forget what the hell is called gr

00:41:38   something that you are one we are one

00:41:39   which i paid i think in 2006 i paid a

00:41:43   hundred bucks for which is a lot for a

00:41:45   little point and shoot camera but I I

00:41:48   loved that camera is one of the great

00:41:50   continue no greatest 800 dollars i've

00:41:52   ever spent my life it has sadly given up

00:41:57   the ghost it doesn't really work that

00:41:58   well anymore like powered on and

00:42:00   sometimes the lens get stuck and stuff

00:42:02   like that you know and like it I don't

00:42:05   know and the software gets stuck

00:42:07   sometimes where it's on but it it won't

00:42:09   take pictures so edgy but I just even if

00:42:11   it worked perfectly i would never carry

00:42:13   around anymore though because the whole

00:42:15   reason I loved it was that it took such

00:42:17   great pictures for a point-and-shoot and

00:42:19   it took such great pictures in low-light

00:42:21   without a flash and that is the one

00:42:25   thing that I'd like for the last year or

00:42:28   2 i'd been on the fence about replacing

00:42:30   that either with the latest ricoh gr

00:42:33   whatever or probably with the one that I

00:42:36   think is probably taken its place the

00:42:38   canon s110 before that the s95 which

00:42:42   actually looks a lot like a little black

00:42:43   point-and-shoot from Canon which is a

00:42:47   fantastic camera really is really fast

00:42:49   lens and it shoots nice video and stuff

00:42:53   like that but it's really gotten to the

00:42:55   point and the five the iphone 5 really

00:42:57   has gotten to the point now where with

00:42:59   the low-light performance so that you

00:43:00   know you can take pictures of people at

00:43:02   dinner and stuff like that

00:43:03   ah it's not as good it does definitely

00:43:07   is not as good it doesn't take pictures

00:43:09   as good as the s100 but it's close

00:43:11   enough and so much more radically

00:43:14   convenient that what's the you know it's

00:43:19   just did is no way I'm ever going to buy

00:43:21   a point-and-shoot again I don't think

00:43:22   exactly and and you know and it's easy

00:43:25   for us you know but like I think a lot

00:43:27   of people took a similar path that we

00:43:30   did at least that I

00:43:31   did where you kind you discover

00:43:33   photography through these awesome SLR is

00:43:36   over the last five six years that have

00:43:38   existed and you know I've heard a lot of

00:43:41   people in our circle of you nerds a nerd

00:43:42   friends that are like us who have done

00:43:46   this path and once you get used to the

00:43:49   quality from an SLR even a bad SLR like

00:43:51   even the lowest end ones i guess that is

00:43:54   the wrong word but he even the lowest

00:43:55   end slrs bottom of the line

00:43:58   canon rebel yeah basic can travel you

00:44:00   know like the even the s-series i think

00:44:02   is that the cheapest one now right

00:44:04   even that has way better quality than

00:44:08   what you get from the s90 and that's

00:44:09   what exactly exactly because the sensor

00:44:11   is so much bigger the optics are so much

00:44:13   bigger there's it the tolerances are way

00:44:15   different it's even that is way better

00:44:17   quality so like I found with the s90 one

00:44:20   of the reasons why i didn't really care

00:44:22   for it besides I would always forget to

00:44:24   bring with me was that optically it

00:44:27   didn't hold a candle to what I had the

00:44:29   time was the rebel right and it it

00:44:33   didn't even compare

00:44:34   so if you're going to convert basically

00:44:35   if you're going to compromise on quality

00:44:36   and all point-and-shoots are severely

00:44:38   compromise quality even you're not even

00:44:40   your beloved s100 everybody that's right

00:44:43   i would rather compromise with the

00:44:45   iphone camera and hat and make up for

00:44:48   that with software right so you exactly

00:44:51   what filters on it you can deal with it

00:44:53   right there and you can Instagram it

00:44:54   right away right it doesn't hardly even

00:44:57   make sense anymore to have a camera that

00:44:58   you can't upload the picture immediately

00:45:01   oh yeah that's why did you see that the

00:45:03   new cannon what is that the 6d I think

00:45:07   it's a 6d they're there they just

00:45:10   announced it like two weeks ago they're

00:45:11   releasing it soon and it's the first

00:45:13   canon camera that had that has as far as

00:45:16   i know this the first SLR that has Wi-Fi

00:45:18   built in me and GPS so they're kind of

00:45:21   getting towards right a smartphone-like

00:45:24   obviously there's still a long way to go

00:45:26   there but I feel like it was it was kind

00:45:28   of a waste to not put that in their

00:45:30   high-end 5d mark 3 or in their portable

00:45:33   cosm you know but anyway it I i think

00:45:37   going back to original point that you're

00:45:38   right and you know it it seems obvious

00:45:41   but I think it's really worth pointing

00:45:43   this out that

00:45:44   the market for non professional cameras

00:45:48   is pretty much gone and it's just you

00:45:51   know they don't only market for pdas

00:45:53   right it's and high notes by pas and and

00:45:56   the store shelves like when you walk

00:45:57   into target they don't reflect that yet

00:45:59   there still is a counter where you can

00:46:01   go and choose from

00:46:02   30 different point-and-shoot cameras but

00:46:05   I think that's going away I really

00:46:06   didn't and you know and people still are

00:46:08   buying them like you know my mom has a

00:46:10   point-and-shoot camera but how many more

00:46:12   years like when the current one dies

00:46:15   Wilshere replace it at me about that

00:46:18   time should be using a smartphone that

00:46:20   has a better camera in it right

00:46:21   you know I don't know and like it i

00:46:24   think everybody complained of people in

00:46:25   their lives they know who have

00:46:26   point-and-shoots now but if you think

00:46:27   about all right let's say that last

00:46:29   night of 34 years then what you know

00:46:31   what phone will they be using in three

00:46:33   or four years

00:46:34   it's ok we'll we'll become more thing

00:46:36   for them to replace that camera it's

00:46:37   like non-smartphone phones

00:46:39   I mean they're dry exactly are there and

00:46:41   I guess point-and-shoot cameras will

00:46:42   never truly go away but then they're

00:46:43   going to become like this little thing

00:46:45   that only a very handful of people use

00:46:48   on i mentioned this a few weeks ago

00:46:50   where I was actually had to go into I

00:46:53   didn't have to but i wanted to sounds

00:46:55   weird go into a verizon retail store

00:46:57   here

00:46:58   long story short because we're switching

00:47:01   from AT&T we could only buy we could

00:47:05   only preorder one iphone from apple

00:47:07   which makes sense i think it has soft

00:47:12   you know it might even be related to the

00:47:14   unlocked sim thing where they don't want

00:47:18   to sell you subsidized iphones before

00:47:22   they know that you're you know not going

00:47:24   to take them all to China right actually

00:47:27   I actually don't blame them for this

00:47:29   even though it was a bit of an

00:47:29   irritation and that's why my iphone

00:47:31   didn't get here till yesterday instead

00:47:32   of on day one but we had to preorder one

00:47:39   and then get it set up before we could

00:47:42   add another one to the account and so I

00:47:43   went into a verizon store just to see if

00:47:45   there was any way that I could short

00:47:46   change that and just a hit here can you

00:47:48   discharged my credit card now and let me

00:47:50   open an account or do we have to have

00:47:52   the device and that Bob bottom line is

00:47:54   you have to have the

00:47:55   vice and I actually even thought about

00:47:56   buying a just a burner just get like a

00:48:01   forty-dollar whatever so that i could

00:48:03   have a verizon account and i could add

00:48:05   iphones and then I honestly and I I'd

00:48:09   like a moment of like wisdom I was like

00:48:12   you know what

00:48:13   don't throw another forty dollars okay

00:48:15   just wait just wait

00:48:16   it's not going to kill you to wait and

00:48:17   so i did it i love how the option you

00:48:20   never considered was getting android

00:48:22   alright but I don't know here's the

00:48:23   thing that makes me bring it up right

00:48:25   now is I there's that it was actually

00:48:29   hard when the idea occurred to me in the

00:48:30   store maybe i'll just buy the cheapest

00:48:32   phone i can get it open a verizon

00:48:34   account it was actually hard to find

00:48:36   them and they're very few of them left

00:48:38   it's really the right you know verizon

00:48:40   retail store is really a smartphone and

00:48:43   even tablet store the tablets are more

00:48:45   prominent of course yeah they want you

00:48:47   know they're higher priced and that you

00:48:49   know it makes sense that the cheap

00:48:50   phones aren't actually I think they

00:48:51   really rip people off on those those

00:48:53   cheap phones they're actually expensive

00:48:55   i remember yeah you feel like a hundred

00:48:57   bucks for one yeah i remember 10 years

00:48:59   ago they were free or or or almost free

00:49:02   i got my phone that I had before the

00:49:04   iphone was just this POS nokia thing

00:49:07   although it did make good phone calls i

00:49:08   I've very distinctly remember that I'd i

00:49:11   did get it on a contract i guess but i

00:49:13   paid like nineteen dollars for it was

00:49:15   like 1995 with the two-year contract and

00:49:17   a you know very reasonable all I was

00:49:19   paying for there's no data always just

00:49:20   minutes you know your family 40 50 bucks

00:49:23   on what you can get and if they had a

00:49:25   $19 phone i probably would have done it

00:49:27   and just bought the $19 verizon phone

00:49:29   and open an account but they didn't they

00:49:32   were all like 5050 box-like and that's

00:49:35   the reason why is because they they they

00:49:37   know because they don't require you to

00:49:40   buy data plans for all the like random

00:49:41   android smartphones do that I think I

00:49:44   think it's still optional but they know

00:49:46   that if you buy this phone for 40 bucks

00:49:50   for fifty bucks you're spending 40 bucks

00:49:52   a month that contract but that they know

00:49:54   that if they can upsell you to a

00:49:56   smartphone that there's no X percentage

00:49:59   chance that you're going to opt for data

00:50:01   plan I think and that's going to get

00:50:03   them way more money over the course of

00:50:04   that contract so i think it's in their

00:50:06   best interest to price those flip phones

00:50:08   fairly unappealing Lee close to

00:50:10   smartphones like well you can get this

00:50:11   flip phone 429 dollars or you can get

00:50:14   this low end android phone for 15

00:50:16   I don't know if they'll sell you one

00:50:17   without a dataplan I don't know seems we

00:50:20   would seem weird to sell you a

00:50:22   smartphone with a data plan but maybe

00:50:24   they do I don't know either way like you

00:50:27   know if they don't require they know

00:50:28   that some percentage people will be able

00:50:30   to be up sold to it and if they do

00:50:32   require then that's a hundred percent so

00:50:34   it's either way they know that if they

00:50:36   can get you into an android phone rather

00:50:38   than a flip phone

00:50:39   they have a much better chance of making

00:50:41   more money from you in the long run

00:50:43   yeah let me take a break and it's

00:50:45   actually a good point because we were

00:50:46   just talking about cameras and an

00:50:49   advantage of having software right on

00:50:51   your device and take a break and tell

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00:51:05   video creation app and a lot of ways it

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00:51:13   little controls on screen very

00:51:14   complicated game your video super simple

00:51:17   you open it up either shoot a video for

00:51:19   you grab one from your library and you

00:51:22   just have this simple little stuff at

00:51:24   the bottom of the screen for doing

00:51:26   things like slow motion and Instagram

00:51:30   style filters that all get applied live

00:51:33   you don't pick a filter and then sit

00:51:34   there and wait while it renders you can

00:51:36   just you can actually change the filters

00:51:38   while you're playing the video or while

00:51:40   you're shooting the video in the app

00:51:41   it's kind of amazing considering how

00:51:45   putting filters like that on still

00:51:48   photos in apps like with hipstamatic

00:51:51   takes like 30 seconds to like render an

00:51:53   image they're doing it live in video

00:51:56   really really cool stuff that's

00:51:58   impressive

00:51:59   uh it really is i had almost it you play

00:52:02   with it and it's like I kind of can't

00:52:04   believe this is possible and as you know

00:52:06   works on all the iphone still works on

00:52:09   iphone 4 4 s not like you need the

00:52:12   iphone 5 for it they call the

00:52:15   interaction what they call here they

00:52:16   call it play and change so you the whole

00:52:19   point is that your you can change the

00:52:21   stuff

00:52:22   while you're playing the video on the

00:52:23   fly to see how it looks really really

00:52:26   cool stuff i first saw it I saw this app

00:52:28   this year at macworld expo in san

00:52:32   francisco and it won the app one best to

00:52:36   show the best to show award from

00:52:37   macworld magazine well deserved and I

00:52:40   just remember thinking on the show for I

00:52:42   remember thinking like that it really

00:52:44   seems fake like I actually I didn't want

00:52:47   to accuse them of it but I really wanted

00:52:49   to play with it in my hand to make sure

00:52:51   that I wasn't watching a candid demo of

00:52:54   these filters being applied the video as

00:52:57   you as it goes without any kind of

00:52:59   hiccup or pause or rendering mode or

00:53:01   anything like that

00:53:02   really really cool app so here's the URL

00:53:04   bit ly you know bit.ly/b I tdot ly go to

00:53:09   be I tdot ly / game your video all one

00:53:15   word bit dot ly / game your video or

00:53:20   just go to the app store and search for

00:53:22   Game your video

00:53:23   one last thing through october seventh

00:53:26   now today as we record it is a September

00:53:29   27th you got a little bit over week

00:53:31   fifty percent off fifty percent off its

00:53:34   only a buck 99 in the appstore nice

00:53:37   great app see me on Charlie Rose last

00:53:41   week

00:53:42   yeah i did it was pretty cool was pretty

00:53:44   cool i'll tell you what my one regret

00:53:45   speaking a camera apps is my one the one

00:53:48   answer i wish i had back was when he

00:53:50   asked what does this not do that you

00:53:53   wish it did I and I said first thing I

00:53:57   you know you're under the gun you're on

00:53:59   live TV I thought while I wish it had

00:54:00   like double the battery life instead of

00:54:02   like one day a battery life i wish i had

00:54:03   double right two days a typical use and

00:54:06   then i can get through one day of like

00:54:08   heavy you set a conference like in

00:54:11   theory just blue sky what you know what

00:54:14   I wish the iphone had that it doesn't in

00:54:16   hindsight what I wish I'd said was i

00:54:19   wish i wish is shot near SLR caliber

00:54:23   photographs like that's my dream for

00:54:25   like where I hope the iphone is five

00:54:27   years from now as I hope that it you

00:54:31   know that it can take I don't know you

00:54:33   know the laws of physics are actually

00:54:34   hurting them

00:54:35   with regard to how thin these things are

00:54:38   in a way that caramelization you know

00:54:39   really need big glass and biggest enters

00:54:42   and distance from the glass to the

00:54:44   sensor but they've got smart people i

00:54:46   don't know they can figure it out

00:54:47   somehow

00:54:48   that's just you know pie-in-the-sky I

00:54:49   wish that the iphone could shoot me I

00:54:52   won't say SLR quality but near SLR

00:54:55   quality i wonder if there's some way and

00:54:57   please email john i wonder if there's

00:55:00   some way that too to combine a bunch of

00:55:03   small sensors and small lens is like a

00:55:05   mosquito I like just like a like a grid

00:55:08   that way you mean

00:55:10   and somehow combine those into one

00:55:12   coherent image i don't know if that's

00:55:14   possible or if the results would be good

00:55:16   or not is next that's kind of what that

00:55:17   little love was a little box camera that

00:55:19   was the novelty with 3d focusing like

00:55:21   lycra micro electro electro that's it

00:55:24   yet

00:55:24   kind of like what they were going for

00:55:26   but not quite

00:55:28   I i'm sure people have tried this I

00:55:31   wonder if if that's the direction Apple

00:55:33   go in the future

00:55:34   basically have like you know it wouldn't

00:55:36   it would probably they probably make it

00:55:37   look like one big camera on the back but

00:55:39   to have like you know an array of maybe

00:55:41   four sensors with four little micro

00:55:42   lenses on them and then one big ones in

00:55:44   front of a kind of masking well and I

00:55:46   really do think that that sort of

00:55:48   pushing limits thinking is exactly

00:55:51   what's going on with the low-light

00:55:52   photos here in the iphone 5 you know

00:55:55   where they're doing this thing where

00:55:56   they're sampling for pixels at once to

00:55:58   get a pixel of the image and I maybe

00:56:02   there is something they could do like

00:56:03   that where you know somehow I guess I

00:56:07   could just be one big sensors with just

00:56:08   with different lenses on the front right

00:56:10   an array of letters from the really does

00:56:11   need to be separate sense

00:56:12   yeah just rethink the way that all thats

00:56:13   you know all that stuff works and i

00:56:15   really do think I do get the impression

00:56:17   that I mean they don't pitch it that way

00:56:20   they pitched it as hey it's a great

00:56:21   great great never better and better than

00:56:24   ever before camera in your phone but i

00:56:28   really do think that Apple sees itself

00:56:30   now as it has a camera company that

00:56:33   that's one of the things that's like a

00:56:34   top-tier priority for them

00:56:36   I really do and it's this combination of

00:56:39   camera hardware and lens and

00:56:42   and you know the sapphires you know

00:56:45   coding and stuff like that combined with

00:56:47   software you know in the in the api's

00:56:52   for controlling the camera they don't

00:56:54   give developers access to raw settings

00:56:57   like iso or aperture is far as i know

00:57:00   that i know there's no I so control as

00:57:01   far as I know there's no aperture

00:57:02   control there might be exposure control

00:57:05   yeah there's definitely exposure control

00:57:06   least like you can set where it focuses

00:57:08   in the photo but you know I wonder if

00:57:11   the reason why they haven't expose this

00:57:13   yet you know at this point if there's

00:57:15   something and something missing in iOS

00:57:17   or the API is at this point it's

00:57:20   probably a conscious decision not to

00:57:22   offer that rather than they could have

00:57:24   gotten to that yet

00:57:25   yeah i think it's like they want to they

00:57:26   haven't gotten to it yet for like iOS

00:57:28   one through four or so but now it's like

00:57:30   if they don't offer something now they

00:57:31   probably have decided not to offer that

00:57:33   and and I I think maybe with the camera

00:57:36   to manual fine-grain controls maybe they

00:57:39   aren't offering that to be able to then

00:57:43   rely more on software optimization I

00:57:46   definitely think so i think it's you

00:57:48   know that to them the camera is this

00:57:50   black to from a developer's standpoint

00:57:51   into this black box and inside the black

00:57:54   box is hardware and software together

00:57:57   right and they don't want developers to

00:58:00   be setting the controls themselves in

00:58:02   apple want to be able to say for this

00:58:05   device and for this hardware and for

00:58:06   this lighting situation we know better

00:58:08   and we're gonna do optimizations and

00:58:10   your work is going to hand you an array

00:58:12   of of finished pixel image here here's

00:58:15   another way here's another crazy thing

00:58:17   from that just while we're on the

00:58:19   consumer reports story is the next

00:58:21   paragraph we also tried out the new

00:58:22   panorama feature and it just died to

00:58:24   bring this up because it's related to

00:58:26   this software as part of the camera

00:58:28   which is all you know the panorama thing

00:58:30   is software we tried out a new panorama

00:58:33   feature to the camera which allows you

00:58:34   to take it 240 degree wide angle still

00:58:36   image it worked well and comparatively

00:58:39   to similar features now found on android

00:58:42   phones one quibble the feature only

00:58:45   works in portrait model i guess.i guess

00:58:50   sick and there's no alert when you shoot

00:58:55   in landscape which can mean trial and

00:58:58   error when you shoot your first

00:58:59   panoramic shot so they devoted a whole

00:59:03   is that's true well no it does work in

00:59:08   when you hold the camera in landscape

00:59:10   but then you have to move up and down so

00:59:12   you can rush it so you know you can

00:59:14   shoot a pan or they're complaining that

00:59:17   you can't go side to side when you hold

00:59:18   it sideways and it does it is a little

00:59:21   counterintuitive at first because you

00:59:22   think i'm shooting this crazy white

00:59:24   image I'll hold the camera wide to but

00:59:28   if you think about it it actually makes

00:59:30   more sense that you hold it in portrait

00:59:33   to shoot these things because then

00:59:35   you're getting significantly more data

00:59:38   vertically right yeah right because

00:59:42   you're don't have to worry about how

00:59:44   much data you're getting with each

00:59:46   sample of the camera horizontally

00:59:47   because you're going to pan you're

00:59:49   panning your hand you're going to get it

00:59:51   all anyway it's up and down where you're

00:59:53   getting more you're actually getting you

00:59:54   know it makes total sense that they do

00:59:56   it this way although it is true that the

00:59:58   first time you use it the very

00:59:58   first time you use it the very

01:00:00   very first time you shoot one time with

01:00:01   panoramic thing you're very likely to

01:00:03   make a mistake and hold the camera

01:00:05   sideways so what if it everybody you do

01:00:09   it one time using oh okay I get it you

01:00:12   just throw that you scrap that one and

01:00:15   then you'll never do it again

01:00:16   like why complain about it and they if

01:00:19   they didn't copy edit this sentence

01:00:21   yeah and if you're thinking how much

01:00:23   effort they put into the right it

01:00:24   obviously didn't think about and if it

01:00:26   worked the way they are saying that they

01:00:29   think it should then you wouldn't be

01:00:30   able to take a vertical panorama and

01:00:33   I've seen some pictures people have

01:00:34   taken like out of skyscrapers where

01:00:37   you're like looking down out of a window

01:00:38   or something like that and a panorama

01:00:40   where you move your hand up and down and

01:00:42   it looks fantastic like a you know an

01:00:45   up-and-down panorama yeah anyway i just

01:00:50   it seems like you know Consumer Reports

01:00:51   has at I lost a lot of respect for them

01:00:55   over the last couple years with their

01:00:56   various iphone hijacks and and it just

01:01:00   seems like they look for problems first

01:01:04   and i know that's kind of their job in

01:01:07   most of their product reviews it's like

01:01:08   fine what's wrong with this car you know

01:01:10   find out what sucks about this air

01:01:12   conditioner but with phones it you know

01:01:15   if there is such a complex landscape of

01:01:18   you know you can't sum up a phone in

01:01:20   three paragraphs and you know a bullet

01:01:23   list of five criteria like you really

01:01:25   can't stop any phone that way

01:01:27   android/ios even blackberry for God's

01:01:29   sake and but it seems like they they

01:01:32   approached phones the same way they

01:01:34   would approach testing a dishwasher and

01:01:36   age doesn't work like they they pick

01:01:39   three or four criteria ignoring

01:01:42   everything else and they they make

01:01:44   judgments based on those things that

01:01:46   they don't really have anything to do

01:01:47   with it or you know might might might

01:01:49   only apply to a very small portion of

01:01:51   its users or things like that it's just

01:01:53   kind of weird how they approach these

01:01:54   things and it also seems like they judge

01:01:59   iphones with far more scrutiny than the

01:02:02   other phones they review

01:02:04   yeah like the things they complain about

01:02:05   with iphones like android phones they

01:02:08   review have many problems like that and

01:02:10   they'll mention them

01:02:11   yeah and and people say you know the

01:02:13   people who hate apple say you know that

01:02:15   that you know you know like within

01:02:18   antennagate is ground zero of this

01:02:20   debate for with a no doubt because it I

01:02:22   don't think antennagate happens without

01:02:24   consumer reports i really don't

01:02:25   consumer reports made that happen and it

01:02:28   ends up they were they made a mountain

01:02:31   out of a molehill it the iphone 4 on gsm

01:02:35   remains at a best-selling phone it's

01:02:38   like that still the third best-selling

01:02:40   phone at AT&T ahead and have you haven't

01:02:42   changed that writes them if they have

01:02:44   now there was room for improvement in

01:02:46   that antenna design no doubt and it they

01:02:48   improved it six months later in the cdma

01:02:50   version and they improved it again in

01:02:52   the 4s and they've improved it again now

01:02:54   in the five but they're still using that

01:02:56   did that antenna you know and all the

01:02:58   people who said that this was a huge

01:03:01   mistake apple doesn't you know there's a

01:03:02   reason that none of the people who

01:03:04   really know how to make phones like

01:03:05   nokia and samsung I've ever done an

01:03:07   external camera are an antenna you know

01:03:11   what a disaster you know looks over

01:03:16   functionality you know all those

01:03:20   complaints here we are three years later

01:03:22   and they're still using that intended

01:03:25   design in the iphone 5 yeah I mean of

01:03:27   course you know it's better than it was

01:03:28   here that one and another one of my

01:03:31   devices went off told you it was found

01:03:34   one that didn't didn't have the mute

01:03:35   switch on they blew it and I do think

01:03:41   that they absolutely look and they don't

01:03:43   do it with other devices they really

01:03:45   don't

01:03:46   yeah it seems like the iphones underway

01:03:48   more screw and by the way in retrospect

01:03:50   you know having having an iphone4 with

01:03:52   both me and my wife at the proximity

01:03:54   sensor was way more of an issue

01:03:56   yeah totally and they didn't even really

01:03:59   mention that and like I think if anybody

01:04:01   was going to make a big deal out of

01:04:02   something being poorly designed on the

01:04:04   iphone 4 it's the proximity sensor

01:04:06   because a lot of people had issues with

01:04:08   that like my wife and get her constantly

01:04:11   I hit me sometimes even and like I and

01:04:14   and they quietly fix that I think with

01:04:17   the 4s is when they find that I don't

01:04:18   think the cdma version really fixed up

01:04:20   with the forest they definitely have

01:04:21   fixed it by that

01:04:22   and that got almost no attention at all

01:04:25   yeah yeah speaking of antennas I want to

01:04:29   ask you about a the iphone 5 LTE and

01:04:33   battery life thing if you look at this

01:04:34   much no single talking about this side

01:04:36   of heaven roundabout so of course

01:04:40   whenever any apple hardware or software

01:04:42   product gets launched everyone says it

01:04:44   makes the battery life works and

01:04:45   sometimes it actually does and sometimes

01:04:46   it just doesn't people think it does and

01:04:50   and so some background here as i'm sure

01:04:52   you know but for listeners when a cell

01:04:57   phone cannot get a good signal but it

01:04:59   usually does is start amping up its

01:05:01   transmitted power so that in poor signal

01:05:04   strength it turns up its power to try to

01:05:07   reach more towers and try to get better

01:05:08   signals so it burns through battery life

01:05:10   faster in areas of port of porno

01:05:13   coverage and that is probably also why

01:05:16   it tends to get hotter when you have

01:05:18   your signal

01:05:19   exactly because using more power so I've

01:05:24   seen some reports and of that I think

01:05:26   yesterday and today of people saying the

01:05:27   iphone 5 is having bad battery life

01:05:29   because it is trying to reach LTE

01:05:33   signals in areas like where I live I

01:05:36   have LTE like on some blocks of my

01:05:39   neighborhood and not others my house

01:05:41   does not have LTE because my house is

01:05:43   not worth covering for any verizon for

01:05:45   any wireless carrier very well but at

01:05:46   least AT&T cover the partially so like

01:05:50   you know I'm in an area with spotty LTE

01:05:52   coverage and by the way I look like 10

01:05:55   miles from Manhattan and this has body

01:05:57   LTE coverage thanks Katie but it's a

01:06:01   long 10 miles

01:06:03   yeah hit this so you know I so I've seen

01:06:09   these reports people specially now I

01:06:10   don't know how they designed the LT

01:06:12   radio I I don't know if if that's doing

01:06:15   the same thing where if it can't fit has

01:06:17   a 3g signal that's perfectly fine but it

01:06:19   can't get an LTE signal doesn't amp up

01:06:21   transmit power for a while look for one

01:06:23   and then give up i like I don't know how

01:06:24   to program that but i think that that

01:06:27   could have an effect on battery life and

01:06:29   like if you're somewhere where there's

01:06:31   just no LTE coverage at all or it's very

01:06:33   very spotty

01:06:35   maybe turning off LTE in the settings

01:06:37   might be better if i don't know but i

01:06:39   would I assume they would have designed

01:06:41   the radio software a little bit better

01:06:43   so that it was more tolerant of that I I

01:06:48   can't say that I i I've had better if

01:06:51   anything the longer I you i've used the

01:06:53   iphone 5 i've had better battery life

01:06:54   than I did on the for us and which blows

01:06:57   me away because it's thinner and lighter

01:06:59   and so I can't help but think that the

01:07:01   batteries smaller and it's on LTE not 4g

01:07:04   and but I get through the day easily and

01:07:08   the other day and I don't even know why

01:07:11   I did this because i'm going to send it

01:07:12   back I'm gonna pack it up and send it

01:07:14   back by the end of the week to apple the

01:07:16   review unit but i did the thing where

01:07:18   you're I don't even know why Apple still

01:07:19   does recommend it that every once in a

01:07:21   while you should use the whole thing run

01:07:22   the battery down to zero and then

01:07:24   recharge it like like they're you know

01:07:26   how to get your best battery life

01:07:28   suggesting page for iphone still says to

01:07:30   do that so I did it even though I was

01:07:32   the review unit so who cares if the

01:07:34   thing is you know I don't know I just

01:07:36   wanted to see what happened because I'd

01:07:38   never want to run it all the way down

01:07:39   and I got the 20-percent warning and I

01:07:42   kept using it and I wasn't doing

01:07:43   anything I wasn't doing something

01:07:45   specifically to run the battery life

01:07:46   down i wasn't like playing video or

01:07:48   something or streaming stuff i was just

01:07:50   using the phone and then I got the

01:07:53   10-percent warning about what I would

01:07:55   expect to and I couldn't get the damn

01:07:58   thing to you run all the way down after

01:08:00   the 10-percent warning it just kept

01:08:01   going and going and it was getting later

01:08:03   at night and I was like getting ready to

01:08:04   go to bed and I'd kind of wanted it to

01:08:06   go down before i went i wanted to just

01:08:08   go all the way down and then you know

01:08:10   then go to bed and it wouldn't you know

01:08:13   it took forever a guy was amazing you

01:08:16   know I just think that those those ten

01:08:18   percent things it's like that that's all

01:08:20   sort of it is guessing i thinkyeah is

01:08:23   your battery chemistry is very

01:08:24   complicated and and yeah they're all

01:08:26   those are all just estimates but i got i

01:08:28   found usually the ones you get the

01:08:30   10-percent warning you really better

01:08:31   find a charge it might only have my

01:08:33   experience I you know and maybe that

01:08:35   speaks to the fact that the brand new

01:08:37   phone the it isn't is calibrated as well

01:08:40   as you think it isn't as accurate but

01:08:42   anyway I've had great battery life

01:08:43   I had trouble running the damn thing

01:08:45   down 20 yeah I've had a little bit less

01:08:47   battery life or so it seemed but then I

01:08:50   realized and I think this might apply to

01:08:52   a lot of people the reason why my phone

01:08:54   kept getting lower and lower is because

01:08:56   I don't really have anything around the

01:08:57   house with the Lightning port that I

01:08:59   have rested in to plug it in so like

01:09:00   before we had we had the speaker docks

01:09:03   in a couple of rooms and so like every

01:09:05   time we didn't eat a meal or if I'm like

01:09:08   washing the dishes I one of the kitchen

01:09:09   so i would put the phone on speaker dock

01:09:11   and play podcast or something i'm gonna

01:09:14   use myself up a little bit of charge and

01:09:16   it was charging hold it you know it's an

01:09:18   AC power doctor would charge and it

01:09:20   would be charging there for like you

01:09:21   know 20 minutes at least 20-30 minutes

01:09:23   so throughout the day my phone would

01:09:25   keep getting these little sips of power

01:09:27   and that would power it up and you know

01:09:30   now I don't have lightning ports

01:09:33   anywhere really accepted i I just I went

01:09:35   to the apple store the day finally got

01:09:37   some extra cables but you know i'm not

01:09:40   putting in docs all day and various

01:09:42   different locations so I i think that

01:09:44   might be happening to a lot of people

01:09:46   who Union you think this has worked

01:09:49   battery life but in reality this effect

01:09:51   is biting you

01:09:51   yeah maybe this this effect is you know

01:09:53   saying oh wait a minute you know it's

01:09:55   just because I'm not plugging it in as

01:09:56   much to it was a real pain for the first

01:09:57   couple of days when I only had one

01:09:59   lightning cable and it was like where

01:10:03   the hell is it I God's upstairs to him

01:10:05   and I gotta go upstairs and I kept

01:10:07   moving minor what happens to my computer

01:10:10   and then upstairs to you know for

01:10:12   charging overnight and the one day i was

01:10:14   actually walking around the house with

01:10:15   it around my neck like just like a scarf

01:10:19   maybe it was like you look like such an

01:10:20   asshole i was like i just i I'd I need

01:10:24   this cable that's correct i like the

01:10:28   calculator watching them in the

01:10:29   modern-day equivalent I also spent one

01:10:31   day over the weekend the first weekend I

01:10:33   had it at a family thing

01:10:36   way outside the city where there is no

01:10:37   LTE it was on verizon 3g and I was in

01:10:41   fact and then there was a Yankees game

01:10:43   on so I was streaming it over 3g and I

01:10:48   battery life was excellent now maybe it

01:10:50   was so far outside LTE range that it

01:10:52   wasn't even doing that if this

01:10:53   hypothesis is correct that if you're on

01:10:56   the car

01:10:57   spell te coverage it will spend too much

01:10:59   energy trying to get on LTE rather than

01:11:02   just using the 3g or whatever is

01:11:04   available maybe I was so far outside of

01:11:07   LTE range that it wasn't even trying i

01:11:08   don't know but i had to i was streaming

01:11:10   live video over 3g and got excellent

01:11:13   battery life

01:11:14   ya ever go to the wire cutter that's

01:11:18   Brian lamb of formal sometimes i like it

01:11:20   it's a good site

01:11:21   ah I don't always agree with their

01:11:23   recommendations but i like this one but

01:11:25   I they do things they do they do this

01:11:27   the way I think consumer reports should

01:11:29   be I think there's room for like

01:11:30   somebody to come in and be like the new

01:11:33   consumer reports and maybe that you know

01:11:35   the wire cutter is that for technology

01:11:38   but i like the way that they do this one

01:11:40   instead of giving you this stupid matrix

01:11:42   of seven different criteria rated from

01:11:44   zero to five circles and write half

01:11:47   circles and blue circles and blue half

01:11:50   circles and all they should they just

01:11:52   say you here at TVs the best TV here it

01:11:55   is it's the panasonic tc-p st50 best TV

01:11:59   under six hundred dollars i will get

01:12:00   this one best small TV get that one and

01:12:03   that's it that's their TV section the

01:12:05   best one the best one under a certain

01:12:07   price and the best one that small it's

01:12:10   certainly a lot more helpful it really i

01:12:12   think it really is because that's you

01:12:15   know that's really what you want like

01:12:16   you don't you don't necessarily want to

01:12:17   see you know and you know i should say

01:12:20   before last year when there for us

01:12:22   review annoyed me I was a consumer

01:12:24   reports online subscriber for like six

01:12:26   years and i would go there and check

01:12:28   whenever I want and you know during this

01:12:29   time I've gone through many different

01:12:30   apartments and we finally bought a house

01:12:32   like I bought a lot of small appliances

01:12:34   dishwasher is air conditioners even a

01:12:36   washer/dryer you know usually window air

01:12:38   conditioners for the various departments

01:12:39   and and you know we we would always

01:12:42   check consumer reports in a vacuum

01:12:44   cleaner with anything i bought that was

01:12:45   an appliance type thing I would always

01:12:47   check there and it was usually not very

01:12:50   helpful because well this and partly

01:12:53   partly because it was it was you know

01:12:54   the stupid thing where you can't buy the

01:12:56   same air conditioner two years in a row

01:12:57   to change the models and each story go

01:13:00   to a different models their own

01:13:01   exclusive and Bob but even when I could

01:13:05   find the ones they recommended it like

01:13:08   they would do like you know one report

01:13:10   every three years on which humidifier

01:13:13   was the best and it wouldn't even give

01:13:16   you a conclusion it would be like well

01:13:18   this is kind of good this is kind of

01:13:19   good this is kind of loud and this is

01:13:21   too expensive and that's not really what

01:13:23   I want you know I just tell me which one

01:13:25   to buy now and that's what the wire

01:13:26   cutter does like just you know fight

01:13:28   through all the bullshit and just tell

01:13:29   me which one to buy really wish I really

01:13:31   wish more people would take that route

01:13:33   now we're an hour into the show or over

01:13:34   an hour and shown we haven't even talked

01:13:36   about maps yet I feel like we gotta talk

01:13:38   about maps do we

01:13:40   I don't know maybe just briefly I don't

01:13:42   know upright

01:13:43   I you know and and now I've got I've got

01:13:47   Dan Lyons dan lines back he's over at

01:13:49   gizmodo now he's he says that mgc learn

01:13:52   iron what do they call us who knows

01:13:55   spoke spots something like that that

01:13:59   were paid spokespersons for apple or

01:14:01   something like that because we're not

01:14:03   that he is that even a word a lot

01:14:05   he's you know he's it's a gizmodo I I

01:14:09   don't really understand i feel like

01:14:11   there's some people who because ok so

01:14:13   the maps data is it is not good in the

01:14:16   new maps from apple right and I would

01:14:19   never said otherwise

01:14:20   right i've linked to people's criticism

01:14:25   of it I've I have you know it

01:14:29   I don't know what I'm supposed to write

01:14:30   that would make people think that that

01:14:34   I'm doing this that somebody like that

01:14:36   i'm doing this right

01:14:37   I'm not sure there is such a thing that

01:14:39   you could write right i mean what do you

01:14:40   suppose to do you have to say what that

01:14:43   this is the doom-and-gloom now Apple you

01:14:46   know don't don't upgrade your phone and

01:14:48   and you know don't buy a new iphone

01:14:51   I mean it doesn't make any sense i I'd

01:14:53   SII I can't say that honestly right they

01:14:56   they were screwed like that I feel like

01:14:58   the way it's one of those things where I

01:15:00   kind of figured it out as i wrote it by

01:15:02   writing about it i really thought about

01:15:03   it that Apple really only had three

01:15:05   options go another year with the old

01:15:08   deal which would have still meant all

01:15:11   the same missing features no

01:15:13   turn-by-turn no vector maps a vector

01:15:15   maps thing is a big deal because they

01:15:17   load faster and the zoom faster it's a

01:15:21   huge difference

01:15:22   like

01:15:23   you just say what you want about the

01:15:24   quality of the data or the searching on

01:15:27   the new Apple maps but I don't see how

01:15:29   anybody can deny that it's a hell of a

01:15:31   lot faster and that's because of the

01:15:34   vector based maps and maps on Android

01:15:37   where they do have google maps and get

01:15:39   vector-based tiles are a lot faster than

01:15:42   maps was on iOS alright so option one to

01:15:45   go another year with the old deal no

01:15:47   turn-by-turn at all is not you don't

01:15:50   have any of it right and you couldn't

01:15:51   use like in you if you're by yourself in

01:15:55   a car you could not use your iphone four

01:15:57   directions or else you'd be like risking

01:16:00   your life like been in the texting you

01:16:02   know in the end no joke you know like in

01:16:04   a way that texting while driving is is

01:16:06   reckless and kills people every year

01:16:07   like using your iphone by yourself

01:16:10   without like a co-pilot to tell you what

01:16:11   to do

01:16:12   you'd be risking your life I mean I mean

01:16:14   that without any exaggeration

01:16:16   yeah you're right so you had no

01:16:17   turn-by-turn every you no help at all

01:16:19   so any every single person who gets

01:16:21   successful turn-by-turn directions in

01:16:24   ios6 is a person who wouldn't have had

01:16:27   it in in that option and today I think

01:16:30   they were you know they were really hurt

01:16:31   by that competitively it is a useful

01:16:32   feature and you know i think the it's

01:16:36   turning into one of those antennagate

01:16:37   things we're in with antennagate it was

01:16:39   the iphone 4 can't make a phone call

01:16:41   right and now i think that that it's in

01:16:45   in it in

01:16:47   enlarge its like the the dandelion Lions

01:16:50   angle is that iOS 6 maps doesn't work

01:16:53   that no matter what you do it's not

01:16:55   gonna work whereas it that you know

01:16:58   obviously there's a lot of cases where

01:16:59   it doesn't but it in most cases it does

01:17:01   work just fine

01:17:02   honestly I mean one of the reasons I

01:17:04   haven't really written about the maps

01:17:05   thing myself is that I'm just not seeing

01:17:06   these problems because at the data

01:17:08   around me is fine and and by the way and

01:17:11   this is a lot like like when when the

01:17:14   verizon iphone first came out everybody

01:17:16   in our you know world who would switch

01:17:19   to AT&T could not wait to get back to

01:17:22   verizon as it was going to be perfect

01:17:23   and solve all their problems but verizon

01:17:25   is not perfect and they have problems

01:17:27   too they're just different problems and

01:17:29   we forgot about them for a while right

01:17:30   you know with ios6 maps google map data

01:17:34   sucks in a lot of ways and I've been

01:17:37   and so many times by usually the way it

01:17:39   sucks is not the road data but the

01:17:40   business data where it'll tell me that

01:17:43   some stores somewhere and that store

01:17:45   will close down six years ago and they

01:17:48   haven't updated their data is and stuff

01:17:50   like that and i had tons of problems

01:17:52   with google map data but you know nobody

01:17:56   thought about it because it was google

01:17:57   of course the best that's just the

01:17:59   reality of having it and now with maps

01:18:01   of with maps on ios6 I think people are

01:18:05   again they're applying a lot of scrutiny

01:18:06   to it because it's new and in some ways

01:18:08   it is worse but i think not all the

01:18:10   scrutiny or not all the criticism is

01:18:13   justified as something that Google Maps

01:18:16   does better because a lot of an art

01:18:17   right so what I ended all the other

01:18:20   thing that helps is help spread the the

01:18:23   meme if you will is that it does demo

01:18:26   well like when you search for the

01:18:28   Washington Monument and it shows up in

01:18:30   the wrong space you know you can get

01:18:32   screenshots well the mistakes that

01:18:34   screenshot well and you know the the

01:18:36   amazing ios6 maps tumblr site is funny

01:18:40   although it's starting to get old I feel

01:18:42   like which I think kind of shows that

01:18:45   it's not that bad right like it's you

01:18:47   know how many melted bridges you know

01:18:49   can can you laugh at rom now when i

01:18:53   called option three is the option Apple

01:18:54   went with which was to kiss google by

01:18:56   and go out on her own with the trade-off

01:18:59   and it is a trade-off this is the thing

01:19:00   that people can I feel like every single

01:19:02   one of these incidents these gates is

01:19:05   always about trade-offs and and the

01:19:07   people wanting to blow it up refuse to

01:19:10   acknowledge that there's anything that

01:19:12   it's a trade-off right its iOS 6 maps is

01:19:15   a total bag of dog shit that's it that's

01:19:18   the argument from the other side its

01:19:20   total shit and anybody saying otherwise

01:19:21   is wrong whereas it it's not it has

01:19:24   vector-based tiles which look great and

01:19:27   are much faster and it has turn by turn

01:19:29   directions which is that a great feature

01:19:31   that didn't have before and that's the

01:19:34   this is the route appleone now I think

01:19:36   the problem is that the critics what I

01:19:40   call option two which was could give in

01:19:43   to google and let Google have what it

01:19:45   wanted to get turn-by-turn and

01:19:48   vector maps from google that that's what

01:19:50   Apple should have done and the

01:19:52   concessions would have been significant

01:19:54   it would have been you know Google

01:19:56   wanted and a couple people have reported

01:19:57   this it's not just from one side it's

01:19:59   like The Times had it i think somebody

01:20:02   else had it too but google wanted more

01:20:04   branding more google branding in the app

01:20:06   more control over the design of the app

01:20:08   you know I think that the I think people

01:20:11   listening to our show know this but I

01:20:13   think in the large world when people

01:20:15   write about this they think there's a

01:20:16   lot of people who probably think google

01:20:18   wrote the old iOS maps app which isn't

01:20:21   true

01:20:22   Apple wrote the app and worked with

01:20:24   google on you know how they're going to

01:20:26   do the api's for the back you know it

01:20:28   was like an API call to get the map

01:20:29   tiles themselves and if you look at the

01:20:31   iOS apps that google has written you

01:20:34   might not want them to write the haps

01:20:36   exactly know very true and you do see

01:20:38   you know and some of them aren't you

01:20:40   know but some of them aren't bad you

01:20:42   know the new youtube app isn't is like a

01:20:45   plus and minus in certain ways i think i

01:20:47   would say the new youtube app it is just

01:20:49   as good and bad as the iOS 6 maps up

01:20:52   yeah but you know it's less important to

01:20:55   people but the big one is the privacy

01:20:58   angle that Google wanted the I don't

01:21:01   even if they still call it latitude

01:21:03   google latitude or if that's been rolled

01:21:05   into Google+ the Google+ umbrella but in

01:21:08   other words though you log in with

01:21:10   google credentials and then Google

01:21:12   tracks where you go and you do check-ins

01:21:15   it's like Foursquare type thing where

01:21:16   you check into places and stuff like

01:21:18   that and you know if you don't mind that

01:21:22   and i'm not saying that you know the

01:21:23   Google Google's collection of user

01:21:26   identifiable data your search queries

01:21:29   and your location and all of this stuff

01:21:31   and indexing you know your email to

01:21:34   serve you ads based on the content of

01:21:36   your email and stuff like that

01:21:37   I'm not saying it's wrong but I'm saying

01:21:39   though it's something to think about and

01:21:42   I'm not comfortable with it personally

01:21:44   in there my right millions of people are

01:21:47   obviously and i feel like the the tech

01:21:51   minded people who don't mind it

01:21:54   who r tool totally embracing the the

01:21:57   google angle on this you know and and

01:22:00   you know Dan lines is a perfect example

01:22:02   the guy who loudly and publicly and

01:22:05   happily switch to an android phone years

01:22:07   ago you know people were totally into

01:22:09   the whole google lifestyle google docs

01:22:11   for all of your writing and and stuff

01:22:13   like that obviously don't mind it

01:22:16   because they're into it but they don't

01:22:18   seem to root be willing to concede that

01:22:20   there is another angle on this that you

01:22:22   know other people wouldn't want that

01:22:24   stuff to be collected and that Apple has

01:22:27   an interest in not allowing google to

01:22:30   build a location monopoly similar to

01:22:35   their web search monopoly sure and you

01:22:39   know it's important also to for people

01:22:41   to realize and know you do on this too

01:22:43   but it's important to realize that you

01:22:47   know I think Apple would have had to

01:22:48   move away from google eventually like

01:22:49   they there is no question that this

01:22:51   could not last that much longer

01:22:52   especially given the relationship

01:22:54   between the two companies breaking down

01:22:56   so much over the last five years and I

01:22:59   think especially you know Apple does not

01:23:02   like when somebody else has them by the

01:23:05   balls over anything and they always

01:23:08   consistently you know in in the in the

01:23:10   the Steve to era and beyond

01:23:13   they have always work to eliminate ways

01:23:16   in which other people had them by the

01:23:18   balls

01:23:18   exactly and like the retail stores were

01:23:20   huge thing in that regard

01:23:23   you know the iphone to launch a cell

01:23:26   phone you have to you know be willing to

01:23:28   be controlled by the carriers to some

01:23:29   degree but Apple did a pretty good job

01:23:31   of negotiations all that and then now

01:23:33   the demand is propelling that the switch

01:23:35   to Intel yeah he's got Italian really

01:23:38   they were really the IBM had them by the

01:23:40   balls on powerpc right and even you

01:23:43   think well then tell him by the balls

01:23:44   but they don't really because their

01:23:45   Intel helping others AMD now happily

01:23:47   ever afters arm right

01:23:49   Apple's never bought you know used AMD

01:23:53   chips but it was always on the table

01:23:55   right and so now you know I think on the

01:23:59   dogs about tomorrow

01:24:00   yeah its nails here and the other thing

01:24:03   too about Intel is that you know because

01:24:05   everybody else is using them to they're

01:24:07   never going to be behind unless they

01:24:09   want to be behind like they are with the

01:24:11   mac pro like that much for now

01:24:13   now Apple has arm to hold over intel so

01:24:15   even that something that they've kind of

01:24:16   insure themselves from right you know

01:24:18   but you know the google maps thing on

01:24:22   the phone like at web search is honestly

01:24:25   as Apple's finding web search is not as

01:24:27   important on smartphones as it is a

01:24:29   computer for the most part right and so

01:24:31   I think apple is willing to let Google

01:24:33   have that plus they could always just

01:24:34   you know to make a deal with Bing or

01:24:36   they could buy DuckDuckGo and do their

01:24:38   own thing going on you know starting out

01:24:39   small just like kind of what they're

01:24:40   doing maps stuff like that they have

01:24:42   options in search and it isn't that

01:24:44   important to them and that goes to the

01:24:48   browser anyway so we know Google can

01:24:49   change the website to do whatever they

01:24:50   want

01:24:51   whereas in maps it's this this native

01:24:54   integrated thing that's in the conduct

01:24:56   of a smartphone extremely important and

01:24:59   so if they would have just kept going

01:25:01   with google for you no more years in the

01:25:04   future or indefinitely google would have

01:25:06   always had me by the balls with this

01:25:08   maps thing right and that would have

01:25:11   made apple very vulnerable in that way

01:25:13   and as their relationship with google is

01:25:16   going sour that would have been really

01:25:18   uncomfortable kind of in the same way

01:25:20   the that same song as a little

01:25:22   uncomfortable with apple because they

01:25:23   would get their component relations yeah

01:25:25   very true which they're also as you can

01:25:27   see apple also trying to diversify a lot

01:25:28   of things they're right but you know

01:25:30   they this Maps transition i think the

01:25:34   anyway you look at it

01:25:35   apple had to take this on their own at

01:25:37   some point they had this this was

01:25:39   inevitable the only the only choice was

01:25:40   timing right and as you wrote the timing

01:25:44   even that the timing here is actually

01:25:46   kind of the obvious choice right

01:25:47   they really couldn't afford to go

01:25:49   another year without if they would have

01:25:52   gone another year with google they would

01:25:53   have had to renew for another year on

01:25:55   top of that right price I they need you

01:25:59   know the transition has to take place

01:26:00   during the year when the deal expires it

01:26:03   can take place at the end when the deal

01:26:04   does expire right and and and google was

01:26:08   under google had no incentive to keep

01:26:11   the terms Apple friendly overwrite I

01:26:14   don't have any problem with google that

01:26:16   Eric they would just keep making the

01:26:17   terms more and more google friendly

01:26:19   because they could they had all the

01:26:21   power right yeah I don't even you know

01:26:24   and and like this Dan Lyons pieces you

01:26:27   know that that it had and I think he

01:26:29   says that we said Google's evil or

01:26:31   somebody i'm not i don't even say

01:26:32   Google's email at Google that was acting

01:26:34   in its own interest to like everybody's

01:26:37   writing in her own enters I guess the

01:26:39   other thing that lay people kind of

01:26:41   vaguely wish is is for something that

01:26:43   just you know it's sort of like a people

01:26:45   in Hell want ice water situation is what

01:26:48   they wish is for the alternate universe

01:26:51   where Google didn't decide to become

01:26:55   apples arch rival for the future of

01:26:57   mobile computing brightly and on one

01:26:59   point out and they were best friend

01:27:01   right that the eric schmidt onstage at

01:27:04   the iphone introduction Kumbaya laughing

01:27:06   and singing and talking about what a

01:27:08   great future Apple and Google we're

01:27:09   going to have together that that would

01:27:11   have kept going and that you know Apple

01:27:16   could have just kept going and let

01:27:17   Google handle the mapping back end and

01:27:20   just do the app and have vector tiles

01:27:23   and turn-by-turn directions from google

01:27:26   in the iOS maps app and have you know

01:27:30   none of the privacy or and the other

01:27:32   stuff in there but that that option

01:27:35   wasn't on the table who was offering

01:27:37   that that would never have happened

01:27:39   because Google's not stupid they would

01:27:41   have seen that these integrations with

01:27:43   the iphone you know on the computer the

01:27:46   computer kind of a fluke on the computer

01:27:47   that they have the web browser and and

01:27:49   and people can choose to go to google

01:27:51   and google made their own web browser

01:27:52   for the same reason on the smartphone

01:27:55   it's this kind of this more quote

01:27:57   curated environment is more controlled

01:27:59   environment where things are more

01:28:01   customized and less quote open use air

01:28:05   quotes a lot when talking about google

01:28:06   because you have to but you know with

01:28:09   with with the iphone google could see

01:28:12   that Apple had a lot of control on this

01:28:15   new platform and at any point let's say

01:28:18   things were still an iphone one point of

01:28:20   relationship days at any point Apple

01:28:22   could have said you know what google

01:28:23   we're going to switch to bing maps now

01:28:25   and you're screwed

01:28:27   so Google had to make their own platform

01:28:29   to be able to control their own destiny

01:28:32   they have two that's the same reason why

01:28:34   am I

01:28:34   on has their tablets now because they

01:28:36   have to do the same thing to control

01:28:37   their media say I disagree with you

01:28:40   there

01:28:40   I do i think that there's that there was

01:28:43   a hypothetical path for Google to take

01:28:45   based on trust you know and think about

01:28:48   how much trust there was a circuit

01:28:50   2006-2007 between Apple and Google I

01:28:53   mean Eric Schmidt was on apple's board

01:28:56   I mean in hindsight and forever in

01:28:58   business in hindsight that's when people

01:28:59   to last forever and this isn't that

01:29:01   mind-boggling know in hindsight like

01:29:03   thinking about how long five years is

01:29:05   could you imagine now if they if they

01:29:07   put eric schmidt back on the Apple board

01:29:10   I mean it honestly think that you know

01:29:11   that tim cook it had a stroke or

01:29:13   something that would be amazing or

01:29:14   imagine if Tim Cook joint apple's board

01:29:16   are Google's bored I mean right exactly

01:29:18   i have not said that be you would not

01:29:20   believe it you would just automatically

01:29:22   assume that whatever website you're

01:29:24   reading was was doing like an April

01:29:26   Fool's thing early you would never

01:29:28   believe it you can't believe it

01:29:30   I know but google you know it in that

01:29:32   one point out in 10 days google was

01:29:34   totally they were replaceable on iOS you

01:29:39   know what if anybody else had a good

01:29:41   enough map service or a good enough

01:29:42   video service or a at all the things

01:29:45   they were integrated with anybody else

01:29:47   could have been swapped in know what you

01:29:48   know what all they would have had to do

01:29:50   is make sure that their maps were still

01:29:52   the best and if they if the mattress

01:29:54   still the best they would have been in

01:29:56   good shape so their destiny would have

01:29:58   been in her own hands like if they had

01:29:59   either a not even done android or be

01:30:03   kept Android as a sort of blackberry

01:30:06   killer low-end you know third-world

01:30:09   open-source orderly not attacked iOS

01:30:13   head on right everything you know just

01:30:16   as wipe out all the low end of the

01:30:18   market platform

01:30:20   ah i think the only thing they would

01:30:22   have had to do is the same thing they've

01:30:24   done with web search like why has an

01:30:25   apple replaced google is the default for

01:30:28   web search because google is still the

01:30:30   best by far

01:30:31   it really is and because that doesn't

01:30:32   look at that doesn't really impact Apple

01:30:34   having down there doesn't really do it

01:30:36   you know it doesn't really harm them

01:30:37   they might even be getting paid for it

01:30:39   still

01:30:39   I'm sure they are I um I don't know but

01:30:43   i would be flabbergasted if they are not

01:30:46   getting paid

01:30:47   no a nice chunk of change for that

01:30:49   because it is extremely valuable

01:30:51   oh yeah and I mean in reality that might

01:30:52   not matter too much to apples financials

01:30:54   now that it's probably not but it's one

01:30:57   of those things where there's a lot of

01:30:58   little things that don't matter a lot to

01:31:00   actually financials but there's so many

01:31:02   of them and they kind of you know

01:31:04   yeah yeah yeahs did be sort of derelict

01:31:07   not to not to cash the checks I i still

01:31:10   think that that it would that it was

01:31:12   inevitable that Google was going to make

01:31:13   their own platform because they also

01:31:16   don't know that they don't want to have

01:31:18   they don't want anyone else to have them

01:31:19   by the balls and in this case apple

01:31:20   would have had them by the balls right

01:31:21   well and I don't feel about balls these

01:31:23   days i supply

01:31:24   I suppose you're right i dunno maybe

01:31:26   you're right i don't know it's it's hard

01:31:28   to say but and you know there's the

01:31:31   other argument though that they still

01:31:32   that they are really there like 20

01:31:34   billion dollars in the hole on Android

01:31:36   that's true yeah and amazon i don't

01:31:38   think it's doing that well in their

01:31:39   efforts either profit I think I link

01:31:41   that up

01:31:42   well but they're breaking even though

01:31:43   they're not a whole you know like I feel

01:31:45   like James really wanted to emphasize

01:31:47   that they're not losing money on this

01:31:48   stuff but they're not making money on

01:31:50   this stuff like that's what makes them

01:31:51   that's what my exams on the crazy guy at

01:31:53   the poker table its kind of their whole

01:31:55   business i hope everything all their

01:31:57   businesses are kind of like if all you

01:31:58   want to do is break even but do it in

01:32:01   great quantity you are a crazy-ass

01:32:04   competitor to compete against if you're

01:32:06   trying to make money right

01:32:07   it's really very against apple which is

01:32:09   totally the opposite i think it was

01:32:11   Brian s hall i think i'll link to it a

01:32:13   couple days ago and maybe I didn't know

01:32:15   but anyway he just a

01:32:16   back-of-the-envelope argument about how

01:32:18   Google is 20 billion in the hole on

01:32:20   Android and most of it is from the 12

01:32:23   billion dollar acquisition of motorola

01:32:24   which still hasn't you know made him a

01:32:26   nickel of Prophet Muhammad won't and you

01:32:30   know once you spend 12 billion on

01:32:31   motorola it's not that hard to you know

01:32:33   figure out that they maybe they spend a

01:32:35   billion on other stuff so even if 20

01:32:37   billion is a little high it's probably

01:32:38   like at least 15 billion and you know

01:32:42   and they even admit publicly that the

01:32:44   lion's share of their mobile advertising

01:32:46   still comes from iOS that's interesting

01:32:50   yeah from from web traffic i guess i am

01:32:52   NOT not from local anymore

01:32:54   well whenever they said it might have

01:32:56   been I don't know if they were ever

01:32:57   making much

01:32:58   map stuff I got sponsored I used to get

01:33:00   sponsored results every once in a while

01:33:02   but never that much

01:33:03   okay yeah it was only only like in the

01:33:05   last six months or so right it was now I

01:33:07   got some starting like a year ago

01:33:08   okay well still that's five years into

01:33:10   the iphone or four years at the iphone

01:33:11   right

01:33:12   hey ever to going crazy long but let me

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01:33:37   that as a server they're actually

01:33:39   deceptively powerful computers and a

01:33:41   really really small and it actually

01:33:43   makes for a great co-hosted server

01:33:45   they've got SSD options they can have up

01:33:48   to 16 gigabytes of RAM nowadays they

01:33:52   really do make for a good server and mac

01:33:54   Nicola has been doing it for a long time

01:33:56   and they're big part of the Mac

01:33:59   community one of the things they do they

01:34:02   just do this for free they're the people

01:34:04   who hosts fire bald dot-org the

01:34:08   automatic action of that fireball dot

01:34:11   orgs only time that I link to somebody

01:34:13   they see it they immediately cash every

01:34:16   single site that i linked to from daring

01:34:18   fireball and all you have to do is take

01:34:20   the URL from daring fireball take off my

01:34:24   domain name replace it with fire bald

01:34:26   dot org and you'll get the cached

01:34:30   version of whatever it is i just like to

01:34:32   that's running on a mac mini at mac mini

01:34:35   cola so it's obviously by definition

01:34:39   fireball proof they're actually in this

01:34:43   is actually interesting i didn't know

01:34:44   this until they sent me this stuff for

01:34:45   the sponsorship but they're actually

01:34:47   they're actually hosted in this place

01:34:51   this switch nap in Las Vegas and it's

01:34:55   they've got fantastic connections it's

01:34:57   actually an old Enron bandwidth station

01:35:00   you go to switch nap dot-com and you can

01:35:04   find out more but it's actually like

01:35:05   this crazy crazy high power

01:35:08   co-hosting facilities super high

01:35:10   bandwidth some of the people they

01:35:13   actually have people who listeners of

01:35:16   the show know who use them and recommend

01:35:18   them and have given them permission to

01:35:22   to say this Michael jurewicz from black

01:35:25   pixel uses mac mini colo Stephen Frank

01:35:28   panic

01:35:29   federico veggie of Max stories great

01:35:33   site to will shipley never heard him

01:35:37   he's at a place called delicious monster

01:35:40   but I think delicious monster site

01:35:42   hosted at mac mini colo you can send

01:35:46   them a mac mini that you own to send it

01:35:48   to them and they will host it for you

01:35:50   you can rent one or buy one from them

01:35:53   and they'll just set it all up

01:35:56   great support you just call them give

01:35:58   great options super super easy and it's

01:36:02   a great service so if you want to use a

01:36:04   mac mini as a hosted server Mac Mini

01:36:08   colo here's the URL to go to and you go

01:36:11   to this URL it will help the show

01:36:13   because they know you're coming from

01:36:14   here so go to www.magnatune.com oh-ohlow

01:36:18   dotnet / the talk show and you know that

01:36:23   they love the show you know they love

01:36:25   the show because the the URL it's / the

01:36:28   talkshow not / talk show attention to

01:36:31   detail attention to detail and they know

01:36:33   that I paid good money for that the mac

01:36:37   mini colo dotnet / the talk show so I

01:36:42   while you're here Marco I want to talk

01:36:44   about some Marco stuff term before I let

01:36:48   you go

01:36:49   you've been doing a lot of stuff lately

01:36:52   it seems to me like you're well into

01:36:54   papers always got new stuff going on but

01:36:55   it seems like a lot of the stuff you've

01:36:57   been doing recently has been

01:36:58   accessibility related and um I won't

01:37:02   even go into it because you've covered

01:37:03   it for example you're a big proponent of

01:37:05   voiceover and developing and your thing

01:37:09   is that you can with your rule of thumb

01:37:11   you you'd eat you assigned triple tap

01:37:14   the home button to voiceover on and off

01:37:16   right but your rule of thumb is you can

01:37:18   tell somebody's a good iOS developer if

01:37:20   you triple tap

01:37:21   their iphones homebody and voiceover

01:37:23   doesn't go on

01:37:24   yeah that's somebody else that had

01:37:26   written that i quoted it but but it and

01:37:28   I don't know if I'm quite that extreme

01:37:29   that i would say they're bad developer

01:37:30   but i think certainly if that does

01:37:32   happen you can tell they're definitely a

01:37:33   good developer I mean and we can we can

01:37:35   literally do I got hold to our show just

01:37:37   on accessibility stuff and its really

01:37:39   very important and I i feel like i'm in

01:37:42   a weird space because i do link to our

01:37:43   accessibility stuff and I value it a lot

01:37:46   of daring fireball so i often get good

01:37:47   links from people about accessibility

01:37:49   related issues but I also feel like like

01:37:52   I do value it and I i think it's so

01:37:55   great that iOS has so many great

01:37:56   accessibility stuff i mean if you don't

01:37:58   get choked up when you see those videos

01:38:00   of blind people using an iphone like

01:38:04   just really i mean getting tons out of

01:38:06   it using all sorts of different apps and

01:38:09   and not just using it you know wasting

01:38:11   time in their house but using it to let

01:38:13   them two things I couldn't do before

01:38:14   like it like apples promo video at the

01:38:16   BBC had the guy walking through the

01:38:18   woods exactly the iphone navigating if

01:38:20   you know if it doesn't choke up you're

01:38:21   not up right i mean i-i can't even I

01:38:23   don't know what you know you don't have

01:38:25   a heart

01:38:25   oh yeah and you know you can you you can

01:38:27   you don't even need help setting these

01:38:28   things up I noticed when I took my new

01:38:30   iphone out-of-the-box yesterday you

01:38:31   triple tap home and it turns voiceover

01:38:33   on so you can just you can actually you

01:38:36   know my default it does that

01:38:37   yeah in that in the in the wrist you

01:38:40   know factory state in the you know out

01:38:44   of the box factory state you you can

01:38:46   just bide triple tapping the home button

01:38:48   you can you get voiceover so you can

01:38:53   configure your brand-new right

01:38:55   out-of-the-box iphone without any help

01:38:56   from a sighted person i found that out

01:38:59   by you know how i found that out I found

01:39:00   out because I wanted to see if the

01:39:02   button was good like to do in a button

01:39:05   and all of a sudden series started

01:39:06   talking to me and I was like all is

01:39:08   awesome so it just give me the what what

01:39:14   how does voiceover work I I know but you

01:39:17   tell people listen in to the show

01:39:19   because I do feel like for a lot of

01:39:20   sighted people they kind of you know

01:39:21   they know iOS is good for this stuff but

01:39:23   they don't really think about it isn't

01:39:26   sure i mean it's it's a screen reader

01:39:27   and and you know what that means is for

01:39:30   somebody who's who is partially or fully

01:39:32   blind they can use an iphone

01:39:34   or iPad or and actually always tends to

01:39:37   but it works really well on iOS devices

01:39:38   and it just reads it reads to them in

01:39:41   the in the quotes eerie voice which was

01:39:43   actually before Syria but it reads to

01:39:45   them in that voice the various interface

01:39:47   elements that they're looking at and for

01:39:50   that they're not looking at this and as

01:39:54   a developer you know iOS does almost all

01:39:56   this automatically if you if you use the

01:39:58   built-in components like the labels for

01:40:00   text and a button with text on it or in

01:40:03   a table views that have titles and

01:40:05   descriptions on Excel it will read all

01:40:07   these things automatically for you don't

01:40:09   have to do anything and so have having

01:40:12   your appt be friendly to voiceover is

01:40:15   not that hard

01:40:15   and the reason why I've gotten so loud

01:40:18   about it recently and and I've not done

01:40:21   this perfectly you know I've in the past

01:40:22   I've shipped lots of voiceover problems

01:40:24   and and for the most part most apps you

01:40:28   know there aren't a lot of blind people

01:40:29   who will who will download your app and

01:40:31   tell you about the voice-over problems

01:40:33   because chances are they won't be able

01:40:36   to find your support email address in

01:40:38   your app for one thing but you know

01:40:40   they're there aren't that many of them

01:40:42   they're not like millions and millions

01:40:43   of blind people downloading your app so

01:40:46   you know that the chances that somebody

01:40:48   who has a problem we'll find it worthy

01:40:49   of emailing you and be able to email you

01:40:52   and be willing to take all the time and

01:40:54   effort to do that is low so you're

01:40:57   probably shipping voiceover problem

01:40:58   without knowing it but the reason why

01:41:00   I've gotten so loud but recently is that

01:41:02   it's just so easy to fix and like like

01:41:05   when I i I'm very fortunate to have a

01:41:07   few blind users paper who will email me

01:41:11   every time I screw something up and then

01:41:13   you know i can go fix it and it takes

01:41:15   like 10 minutes to fix I mean thatthat

01:41:17   something like it's so easy all you have

01:41:19   to do is if you're doing anything custom

01:41:22   with the controls like if you have a

01:41:23   button that's just an image and doesn't

01:41:24   have any text on it or if you like

01:41:26   custom rendering a seller control you

01:41:29   have to just set a trait on that object

01:41:32   in the code

01:41:33   say what how what your voiceover say

01:41:35   about this item

01:41:36   yeah and that's it it's like it's typing

01:41:38   in a string like refresh button that's

01:41:41   it it's so easy and that's so it's it's

01:41:44   just so embarrassing one when I learned

01:41:46   that I was doing this badly

01:41:47   some cases that that kind of stuck with

01:41:50   me like oh man I gotta I gotta do better

01:41:52   on this because it's such a tiny thing

01:41:54   for me to do and it can make such a

01:41:57   massive difference to somebody's ability

01:41:59   to use this app that I just feel like

01:42:01   it's it's like a social responsibility

01:42:03   for developers like we should we should

01:42:05   be really making sure we're not screwing

01:42:07   this up because it's so easy to do it

01:42:08   right at the great irony is and it sort

01:42:14   of gets back to the whole how important

01:42:16   you know it really comes back to the

01:42:18   argument Steve Jobs gave onstage about

01:42:21   why the iPhone was just a touch screen

01:42:25   was that it's the flexibility of

01:42:28   software that you don't know what

01:42:30   buttons you need so you don't want to

01:42:31   make the buttons hardware because you

01:42:33   don't know what buttons you know the

01:42:34   buttons you want for the phone or

01:42:36   different than the ones you want for a

01:42:37   web browser and we don't even know what

01:42:39   buttons were gonna want next year for a

01:42:41   nap

01:42:41   the idea for which we haven't even had

01:42:43   yet exactly but i think and i do

01:42:46   remember I I don't have any URL is

01:42:48   handling but I remember though that

01:42:49   people were saying that the downside of

01:42:51   this design this is circuit 2007 is this

01:42:53   is gonna be a disaster usability wise

01:42:55   are our accessibility wise because how

01:42:57   the world's a blind person going to use

01:42:58   that thing where there's no buttons

01:43:00   right imagine like on a traditional old

01:43:02   pretty smart phone cellphone a blind

01:43:05   person once they knew which buttons were

01:43:07   which could use it by feel

01:43:09   because you did you know alright here's

01:43:10   the place a call button and i know that

01:43:12   if i go you know or if I long press on

01:43:15   the one button it's going to call my

01:43:17   wife if I long press on to its going to

01:43:19   call Marco you can do that without

01:43:22   looking at it but everybody thought with

01:43:25   the iphone because it's just this

01:43:26   touchscreen that it's not going to be

01:43:28   usable by the blind or low-sided and it

01:43:33   maybe even was going to get apple and

01:43:35   legal problems because of certain

01:43:37   requirements for accessibility and it

01:43:39   ends up it's actually the most

01:43:40   accessible device I I think ever

01:43:43   yeah and and they didn't have on day one

01:43:46   because i right they didn't have enough

01:43:47   ram travel stuff loaded

01:43:49   I think I believe it came in iOS 3.2 out

01:43:51   and on the 3gs and by I think you're

01:43:54   right and it was and I

01:43:57   because it was it was before sirree but

01:43:59   it was when you could first start giving

01:44:01   voice I think it coincided with when you

01:44:04   could give the voice controls right yeah

01:44:07   which is through the 3gs because it was

01:44:08   the first one had more ram and they

01:44:10   really did they needed more and we just

01:44:12   fit these voices in this code loaded up

01:44:14   into around all the time right but its

01:44:16   that's you know it's just it's so easy

01:44:19   yeah and and like like I added these

01:44:20   these two fonts recently disfavor that

01:44:22   like one of them is is aimed at making

01:44:24   easy for dyslexic people to read and the

01:44:27   other one is aimed at people with

01:44:28   learning disabilities making making easy

01:44:29   for them to read like the dyslexic font

01:44:31   was free and learning disabilities font

01:44:33   was really inexpensive as far as

01:44:35   finalizing for apps goes and it just

01:44:38   like it took almost no effort for me to

01:44:40   add those things just like voiceover so

01:44:42   it takes almost no effort to do this but

01:44:44   it makes a huge difference for somebody

01:44:46   and so it just seems like a no-brainer

01:44:50   it's it's a great app my I have a good

01:44:53   friend here in Philadelphia he's like my

01:44:55   yankees boyfriend name is Matt and he's

01:44:59   a he's got the is like some kind of

01:45:02   vision thing but he did you know it

01:45:03   doesn't see stuff clothes real well but

01:45:05   he's a voracious reader and he's an

01:45:07   enormous instapaper fan because ease

01:45:10   ground zero for the instapaper target

01:45:13   audience because he's a voracious reader

01:45:14   but I almost feel like he's friends with

01:45:18   me just like try to get a connection

01:45:20   with you because he just loves it

01:45:22   because you keep making it better and

01:45:24   better and it's you know if you didn't

01:45:26   if the fonts were always small and it

01:45:28   don't have a limited number of fonts you

01:45:30   know it'd be a lot harder for them to

01:45:31   read he read better with instapaper than

01:45:34   he does

01:45:35   you know with anything else on an iOS

01:45:38   that's great he also try asking the

01:45:41   other day cuz he just got the iphone 5 2

01:45:43   also said that he thinks he loves the

01:45:45   bigger the taller screen because it fits

01:45:48   more it makes it easier to use bigger

01:45:51   fonts to read

01:45:52   yeah you and even just like there's more

01:45:56   like you know you can use voiceover it

01:45:58   if you if you turn voiceover on and

01:46:00   you're in there like a whole bunch of

01:46:01   things on screen you can swipe left or

01:46:04   right to kind of go next and previous

01:46:05   item or you can just put your finger on

01:46:07   something and move it around

01:46:09   sorry and so I owe a lot of blind people

01:46:12   actually use iPads because it's just

01:46:14   more area more surface area and you know

01:46:17   initially if you don't think about if

01:46:19   you don't have the stuff works you might

01:46:20   think that doesn't make any sense why

01:46:21   would they want they want a bigger

01:46:22   screen but it's just it's more area and

01:46:24   it makes it easier for a lot of people

01:46:26   yeah it just as interesting to me and

01:46:28   you know it's one of those things where

01:46:29   I do try to be really cognizant of it

01:46:31   but because i don't really have any

01:46:33   vision problems to speak up i would have

01:46:37   thought intuitively that something like

01:46:39   Instapaper on the iphone you know

01:46:41   reading doing long-form reading on a

01:46:44   tiny tiny screen is something that's

01:46:46   really sort of by definition only for

01:46:48   the for people with good vision and it's

01:46:52   just not that's not true at all which i

01:46:54   think is so fascinating that it's you

01:46:56   know it to me it's counterintuitive but

01:46:57   it's great

01:46:58   exactly and and with the ipad again like

01:47:01   it i actually back in and party two

01:47:04   years ago I had a guy email man he said

01:47:07   his father had had very bad vision very

01:47:09   low vision problems and he was trying to

01:47:11   get people to read on the ipad and he

01:47:13   said instapaper you could almost read

01:47:16   but the maximum font size just a little

01:47:18   bit too small and so I i sent him a beta

01:47:21   build and said here here's a beta build

01:47:23   and it just it had like a little label

01:47:25   somewhere telling him the font size and

01:47:26   in 10 points and I said increase it i

01:47:29   removed limit increase it as high as you

01:47:31   can tell me when he can start reading it

01:47:34   and so I'm I and he by working with this

01:47:38   guy i made the font size way bigger

01:47:41   matter at the top the maximum font size

01:47:42   i made it way bigger and I made it so

01:47:45   big that it can pretty much only fit

01:47:47   like one or two words per line on an

01:47:49   iPad and possibly even only in

01:47:51   landscaping on how long the words are

01:47:53   and but I've I since not only did i make

01:47:57   a huge difference to that guy but I've

01:48:00   since heard from so many the people who

01:48:01   said i can finally read because I can

01:48:03   finally make the font big enough mess

01:48:05   and it's just it's so amazingly

01:48:08   fulfilling to hear those stories that

01:48:10   this stupid little change i made that we

01:48:12   took no effort made a difference in

01:48:15   somebody's life you know there's there's

01:48:16   not only it's hard to it's hard to get

01:48:19   those those you know helping people out

01:48:21   in life connect

01:48:22   options through the internet you know

01:48:23   you don't really hear it's hard to know

01:48:25   how you're affecting people it's hard to

01:48:26   know it like even here we don't know

01:48:28   who's listening to this we don't you

01:48:30   know sit something we could be helping

01:48:31   somebody through a tough time on only by

01:48:33   talking about iphones and stuff you know

01:48:35   and and you don't but you don't you

01:48:36   don't hear about that

01:48:39   so the few times that you do hear about

01:48:41   something positive happening where you

01:48:43   didn't even realize it was having that

01:48:44   big of an effect or where it's really

01:48:46   easy for you to do it it's incredibly

01:48:48   fulfilling yeah you deserve it it's

01:48:51   great and you know it's just funny to

01:48:53   it's like you said it's like you by

01:48:54   making the font size so crazy big that

01:48:57   you would think well no one would ever

01:48:58   want this pic right but someone doesn't

01:49:01   actually actually do

01:49:02   that's great i think i've made it

01:49:05   through the whole show I think correct

01:49:07   me if I'm wrong maybe you're too polite

01:49:09   you probably wouldn't have said it but

01:49:10   the over-under was was was on me saying

01:49:13   Instagram instead of instapaper at least

01:49:16   three really because every time I talk

01:49:19   about either one

01:49:20   I say the other like I start talking

01:49:22   about Instagram I say instapaper and

01:49:24   when I start talking about in the paper

01:49:25   I say Instagram and I didn't hear a

01:49:27   single single step of this time had my

01:49:29   god as i call it it's like a hashing

01:49:31   collision in my brain I find know that

01:49:33   in stuff i'm so mad at them for having

01:49:35   that name and being so successful

01:49:36   yeah and now it almost looks like i

01:49:39   copied that I know yeah it does because

01:49:41   they've gotten so big you know doing

01:49:43   exactly

01:49:44   I guess they're legendary less than a

01:49:46   billion dollar acquisition now because

01:49:48   it was all facebook you can how it would

01:49:50   sound like the 700 million recognition

01:49:51   oh oh no you know what i wanted to bring

01:49:54   this up to you because Instagram which

01:49:57   is a pile of well I don't love may begin

01:50:00   tough but i like it a lot and i still

01:50:01   use it but there they updated for the

01:50:04   iphone 5 and took away live filters

01:50:09   meaning that you can't preview the

01:50:12   filter live in the camera as you're

01:50:15   shooting and it infuriates me it really

01:50:21   does because in when a ship version to

01:50:24   point out like a year ago they replaced

01:50:27   all of their existing filters with a new

01:50:29   filters and it's um a lot of them had

01:50:32   the same names but they did not look the

01:50:33   same they didn't

01:50:34   look close to the same some of them look

01:50:35   ridiculously different even though they

01:50:37   had the same name and and the reason why

01:50:39   was probably for some kind of technical

01:50:41   performance reason we're like you know

01:50:43   if they make the if they make this

01:50:44   hardware accelerated they can do it in

01:50:46   in real time said that it wasn't it was

01:50:48   for live filters because in number one

01:50:50   point you couldn't filter live you shoot

01:50:52   first then apply a filter and it took a

01:50:54   while it took a bit like you know three

01:50:57   seconds of lag around the iphone for

01:50:59   this before us came out right but they

01:51:01   would cash it though so if you were like

01:51:03   this one or that one this one or that

01:51:04   one when you switch between the two if

01:51:07   it had already computed at once it you

01:51:08   wouldn't have to do it again on but I

01:51:11   think the fact that it was a little bit

01:51:12   little bit computationally expensive you

01:51:14   know a second or two then although the

01:51:16   pie be a lot faster now in five

01:51:18   that's a David they were just so much

01:51:20   more aesthetically pleasing they got rid

01:51:22   of them because they said live is better

01:51:24   and now they're going now they've gotten

01:51:26   rid of live but they've kept the same

01:51:29   crappy filters so now we have crappy

01:51:31   filters and no live

01:51:33   ah and they said because they did still

01:51:38   there if you upgrade to the new version

01:51:39   of instapaper right there I did it

01:51:42   that's the grand on Instagram on an

01:51:44   older iphone you still have the live

01:51:47   filters they have only taken it off on

01:51:49   the five but they said going here

01:51:52   forward though for consistency that's it

01:51:54   they're going to do away with light

01:51:55   filters and then I thought about that

01:51:57   and here's here's what i did i fired up

01:51:59   my galaxy nexus and opened Instagram

01:52:02   there and guess what no live filters so

01:52:06   I think can spike consistency they mean

01:52:09   consistency with other non iOS platforms

01:52:12   cough cough android haha because they

01:52:16   don't have live filters there now we

01:52:18   can't have nice things and it simple and

01:52:20   android you know one of the biggest

01:52:21   challenges for android development for

01:52:24   fragmentation is the GPU and doing any

01:52:26   kind of hardware accelerated thing with

01:52:27   gps because it the GPUs vary so widely

01:52:30   on android right that's why games have a

01:52:32   really hard time there you know just

01:52:33   working everywhere because there's so

01:52:35   many different CPUs but I don't you know

01:52:37   I i think and out of your problem i

01:52:39   can't agree with me on this i really

01:52:41   think that Instagram would be better

01:52:43   without the filters and and I think the

01:52:46   reason why so back

01:52:48   brief story back when tumblr first

01:52:49   launched I had this brilliant idea which

01:52:53   is the worst idea I've ever had

01:52:54   hey why don't we have a feature that

01:52:56   imports RSS feeds on to your blog so

01:53:00   that every time somebody posts a link in

01:53:02   an RSS feed it automatically you

01:53:04   automatically blog on your tumblr blog

01:53:06   and this is you know this was back in

01:53:09   2006-2007 so this was during a time when

01:53:13   all these like cross pushing tools are

01:53:14   also coming out so by having this

01:53:16   feature even though this was into this

01:53:18   little side feature of tumblr that was

01:53:20   you know barely even visible in the

01:53:22   interface to enable by having this

01:53:25   feature at although everyone started

01:53:28   thinking tumblr was an aggregation

01:53:29   service for all your different social

01:53:30   networks and you know kind of like I

01:53:32   think that isn't that what friends feed

01:53:33   was supposed to be I think it was

01:53:35   everywhere I never was quite clear they

01:53:37   never really had a clear

01:53:38   here's what you're supposed to use

01:53:39   friendfeed for but I think that's if

01:53:42   they still there there were these

01:53:43   aggregation services out there these

01:53:45   other ones so everyone thought tumblr

01:53:46   was that that this this aggregation

01:53:48   service that would just you'd be able to

01:53:50   combine all your other activities and

01:53:51   other services on to this one page and

01:53:54   that's really not what we set out to

01:53:55   build and in fact as a navigation

01:53:58   service it was a pretty bad one but just

01:54:00   simply by having a future everyone

01:54:02   everyone classified it as that in their

01:54:04   heads and that's how that's how the

01:54:05   press wrote about it that's how people

01:54:06   use it that's it that's how this other

01:54:08   people using it and it was actually

01:54:10   pretty problematic for a while I think

01:54:12   with instagram the filters are that

01:54:14   problem whereas people especially when

01:54:17   Instagram was new and not not as many

01:54:19   people used it a lot of people are

01:54:21   hearing about it or seeing people

01:54:22   posting these photos like on Twitter and

01:54:24   stuff i think everyone thought instagram

01:54:27   is all about the filters and its really

01:54:29   not Instagram is about the social

01:54:31   network of sharing these photos with

01:54:33   people that's what Instagram was about

01:54:34   and that's why Facebook wanted it so

01:54:37   badly

01:54:37   that's why a flicker should be

01:54:40   embarrassed that they didn't do it and

01:54:41   possibly some degree tumblr also it

01:54:44   really is the social network for sharing

01:54:46   for its Twitter for photos basically and

01:54:49   the the filters are really this

01:54:51   distraction and they are useful

01:54:54   occasionally but I think like I i I've

01:54:57   tried to not use filters for like the

01:54:58   last year or so and i really haven't

01:55:01   missed

01:55:01   I i think once or twice to just you know

01:55:03   amp up the brightness for like a badly

01:55:05   exposed photo but that was about it

01:55:07   I i think i think the filters are a fat

01:55:11   actually and the filters are they really

01:55:14   scream 2011 to me I and I think they're

01:55:18   I think that fat is is maybe going to

01:55:20   end in like a year or two and and you

01:55:23   know I think if Instagram downplayed the

01:55:26   filters men maybe that's what they're

01:55:27   doing i don't know but if they if they

01:55:29   downplay the filters little bit i think

01:55:31   maybe then people will start seeing this

01:55:34   isn't just about making pictures look

01:55:36   old

01:55:36   it's about sharing pictures i agree to

01:55:41   some extent and I little conscious of

01:55:46   the fact that that the wow that's been

01:55:50   filtered filters you know the ones that

01:55:52   really make it look old per se are going

01:55:57   to date poorly 10-15 years from now like

01:55:59   you know that I've got three years from

01:56:01   now

01:56:02   yeah but it's really going to stand that

01:56:03   you know like it's you know like

01:56:05   bell-bottom jeans and stuff like the

01:56:06   disco it's going to stand out but i

01:56:09   think though that the filters i like

01:56:11   best and the ones that I use going

01:56:14   forward the most aren't about making it

01:56:17   look like a crumpled up old Polaroid but

01:56:20   just changing the color temperature and

01:56:23   you know it the way that you modified

01:56:26   you know more like what you do when you

01:56:28   dig around with the exposure settings in

01:56:31   Lightroom or aperture or even I radio

01:56:33   about making something look warmer

01:56:35   making it look cooler

01:56:38   you know or just black and white like

01:56:39   black-and-white to me is not a gimmick

01:56:41   get black and white is like a a a

01:56:44   serious way of doing photography to

01:56:47   really change a photo in an evocative

01:56:49   way like i don't think there's anything

01:56:51   gimmicky about black and white like and

01:56:53   having good black-and-white filters so i

01:56:55   would separate it there i do think it's

01:56:57   useful and I think that it makes a lot

01:56:58   of their photos look better but again no

01:57:01   I think that their new ones the current

01:57:03   batch of insta gram I swear to god of

01:57:08   hard Instagram filters are worse in that

01:57:12   way though we're like home

01:57:14   was half of them are just like

01:57:15   preposterous Lee you know gimmicky and

01:57:18   they're not really about making it look

01:57:20   good but making it look hipstery i mean

01:57:24   i agree with you that there is

01:57:25   definitely of their there is value and

01:57:27   there is a place and a good reason to

01:57:30   use filters that you know do like common

01:57:33   post-processing type operations you know

01:57:35   things like what you said like you know

01:57:36   just in the color temperature or you

01:57:38   know just in the exposure curve a little

01:57:39   bit there is certainly a place for that

01:57:42   just seems like so many of Instagram

01:57:44   filters so far have been not to make a

01:57:48   photo look better but to make it look

01:57:50   filtered like to make it really obvious

01:57:52   that this had this filter applied the I

01:57:54   think they should i think the way they

01:57:56   should look at it going forward is less

01:57:58   as like a hipstamatic type thing and

01:58:02   making it look kitschy and more like a

01:58:05   OneTouch lightroom tight yeah

01:58:09   oh and speaking of which I I keep

01:58:10   meaning to tell people about this and I

01:58:12   should I should disclose of course adobe

01:58:15   revel has been a sponsor of my sight a

01:58:17   lot and they're sponsoring even more of

01:58:19   it soon but what they did it they

01:58:22   explain this to me and I I verified this

01:58:24   is actually the case

01:58:26   adobe revel is this whole you know photo

01:58:28   kind of sharing app from Adobe but that

01:58:34   what they did was they basically took

01:58:35   the lightroom processing engine and

01:58:38   rewrote it so it runs well on a phone

01:58:40   and so and they it's it's the engine

01:58:44   from Lightroom for it i think it's it's

01:58:45   based on that or that the codebase

01:58:47   releases is based on that same code base

01:58:49   from lightroom 4 and so I i've been

01:58:52   using revel not just to view my photos

01:58:54   which is what it's made for but i've

01:58:56   been using it as an editing program on

01:58:58   on iOS and in particular what it's

01:59:01   really really good at is changing the

01:59:03   exposure because they get it and people

01:59:06   who play with lightroom 4 know about

01:59:08   this or or think Photoshop cs6 I think

01:59:11   it's in that camera raw version adobe

01:59:14   rewrote the exposure adjustments in

01:59:15   these versions so that you can adjust

01:59:18   the exposure up or down and it it

01:59:20   doesn't blow out the highlights or black

01:59:23   in the shadows as much as you go up and

01:59:25   down they've always been good

01:59:27   at that and I i do think that the one in

01:59:29   four is radically better but even

01:59:32   lightroom why you had amazing exposure

01:59:34   controls and judged

01:59:38   oh my the ricoh this is bringing the

01:59:40   show full circle so my ricoh that didn't

01:59:43   shoot raw or if it did it was like it

01:59:45   was like a five-second right time is

01:59:47   something I've either didn't shoot it or

01:59:49   it took like 5 to 10 seconds to write so

01:59:51   I never ever used it so I shot

01:59:53   everything jpg and then I got my 5d

01:59:57   couple years later and I was all

01:59:57   couple years later and I was all

02:00:00   in the lightroom and I was so excited to

02:00:02   start shooting raw and because everybody

02:00:04   said you know the exposure you know the

02:00:06   things you can do exposure wise with raw

02:00:08   photo vs jpg just it's just night and

02:00:11   day

02:00:12   it actually didn't even seem that

02:00:13   different to me because that lightroom

02:00:15   was so good at adjusting exposure from

02:00:18   one point oh so good at adjusting

02:00:20   exposures on jpegs not even raw images

02:00:23   which is what you're getting on the

02:00:24   phone so I believe it i do believe it

02:00:26   yeah they'd i think that is Adobe at its

02:00:29   absolute best

02:00:31   oh yeah i def I i really do think and I

02:00:33   don't think they would do this but it's

02:00:34   not really what they want out of rebel

02:00:36   or out of most of their businesses but I

02:00:38   wish adobe we just take that editing

02:00:40   engine and just make a dedicated editing

02:00:42   app just for that because with rebel

02:00:44   there's a few extra steps because it's

02:00:45   not really made for that you have to

02:00:46   like imported and then export back as a

02:00:48   few extra steps to use it just as an

02:00:50   editor but if they just made a dedicated

02:00:53   photo editing app for the processing app

02:00:55   for iOS with that engine would be killer

02:00:58   they have lightroom photoshop express or

02:01:01   ps4 photoshop something but I didn't I

02:01:04   did not like that app they had there is

02:01:06   a photoshop something called Photoshop

02:01:08   for iOS

02:01:09   oh yeah i think is that i think it's

02:01:12   called Photoshop but it's adobe

02:01:13   something but i think it's called

02:01:14   Photoshop but it's not it's not good

02:01:16   it's not bad but it's not good but this

02:01:19   sounds good

02:01:19   everything the entity controlled and

02:01:21   revel are awesome they really and like

02:01:22   they kind of bury it like like if

02:01:24   there's like it only shows three first

02:01:26   like exposure color and then like you

02:01:28   tap 1 and expands it into these three

02:01:30   more manual controls like you gotyou

02:01:32   gotta play with it a little bit but

02:01:33   really like if they if they were that

02:01:35   into its own app and just made it for

02:01:37   photo editing it would be amazing i

02:01:39   would put everything through that before

02:01:40   posting to Instagram well there we go

02:01:43   whatever would you agree with me that

02:01:44   they're just their pandering down to the

02:01:46   Instagram their pandering to the lowest

02:01:48   common denominator it does seem that way

02:01:51   yeah I don't know why not just let

02:01:52   iphone users have better filters donated

02:01:56   have a better phone why not just have

02:01:58   better filters why make everybody have

02:02:00   the same set of filters who cares

02:02:02   I mean like you said the most important

02:02:03   thing is the sharing Network which is

02:02:04   why it's useful that android phones can

02:02:07   participate like if your friend has an

02:02:09   android phone while you know why

02:02:10   shouldn't they be allowed opposed to

02:02:12   to Instagram but or again maybe it is

02:02:16   instagrams people recognizing that a lot

02:02:19   of this filter is going to be temporary

02:02:20   fads and and trying to try to minimize

02:02:24   the appearance of filters being so

02:02:27   necessary or suction main focus of the

02:02:29   app I don't know I just feel like you're

02:02:33   always in trouble if you're it's you

02:02:36   really ought to second-guess yourself if

02:02:38   you're holding back in anyway if you're

02:02:41   you know saying yeah we're not giving it

02:02:44   our best on this you know

02:02:47   yeah i agree with you on that I guess I

02:02:48   guess thing with instagram might not

02:02:49   matter soon you'll likely if they if

02:02:51   they do indeed are downplaying the

02:02:52   filters which I don't know they will but

02:02:54   if they do then all this would be fairly

02:02:56   moved

02:02:57   yeah you're I mean you're probably a

02:02:58   poor example of this with instead paper

02:03:02   but I because you obviously would not

02:03:05   hold back on adding cool features to the

02:03:08   iOS version of instapaper if they

02:03:11   couldn't be added to the fairly still

02:03:14   fairly new android version because your

02:03:16   android version of instapaper is sort of

02:03:18   an experiment it's not

02:03:20   oh yeah in fact when when we so I don't

02:03:22   even develop and reverse mobile sucks

02:03:23   does their great great contractor and

02:03:26   and they would the arrangement i had set

02:03:30   up with them was you know I don't want

02:03:33   this to have feature parity not because

02:03:35   I don't want android to be as good but

02:03:37   because i don't want to have to be

02:03:38   restricted in what I do in the future

02:03:39   like I want to be able to get out of

02:03:41   added feature to the ios app or changing

02:03:43   as I see fit and not have everybody

02:03:45   expect that it simultaneously change and

02:03:47   applied to the android app and so it

02:03:50   launched for it still doesn't have some

02:03:53   of the features of iOS app but and part

02:03:55   that was just you know let's see what we

02:03:56   can get done for one point given limited

02:03:58   time and money but you know I've always

02:04:01   maintained that you know I want this to

02:04:03   be two separate things because it is two

02:04:04   separate things these are two very

02:04:05   different platforms with very different

02:04:07   use types very different hardware very

02:04:10   different software and and very

02:04:12   different users honestly all right i

02:04:14   think so you know it's it's important

02:04:16   that your that you leave yourself the

02:04:18   freedom with both your expectations your

02:04:21   customers expectations in your

02:04:22   development philosophy you leave

02:04:24   yourself the freedom to do

02:04:26   thinking on platform even if your other

02:04:27   platforms can't do it same thing with

02:04:29   web browsers like it you know there's no

02:04:30   reason you can't enhance things for

02:04:32   modern web kits because you want things

02:04:34   to look the same on IE five right

02:04:37   why hold back right you're all i see are

02:04:40   always doing a disservice if you're

02:04:41   holding back and it's always the truth

02:04:43   is always the case with cross platform

02:04:45   software i think Dobies made probably

02:04:46   made mistakes in this regard over the

02:04:48   years where their mac software isn't as

02:04:53   Mac like as it should be here doesn't

02:04:54   support features because it's not in

02:04:56   can't do it in the windows version and

02:04:58   if I knew the windows version i'll bet

02:05:00   what you know diehard windows users who

02:05:02   know everything with system probably

02:05:03   have the same complaints about the

02:05:04   windows versions you know and microsoft

02:05:06   office i think is probably a good

02:05:08   example of a company has done it right

02:05:11   where office for mac who was never meant

02:05:16   to be featured compatible with office

02:05:18   for windows or you know it design

02:05:20   compatible it's not supposed to look

02:05:22   exactly the same except that the window

02:05:24   controls are different you know exactly

02:05:27   and i think i actually you can point to

02:05:28   Apple as an example doing this badly

02:05:30   with itunes for windows

02:05:31   yeah I you know what that's a great

02:05:33   example right because Windows users hate

02:05:35   it

02:05:35   yeah i mean when i was i was a Windows

02:05:37   user until 2004 and with one of the apps

02:05:40   i hated by far the most was quick time

02:05:43   for windows right that would

02:05:44   occasionally download some files that

02:05:46   needed to be good and quick time and I

02:05:47   would hate installing this thing is it

02:05:49   was it we know it's crap all over my

02:05:50   system tray and the window was all

02:05:52   non-standard and you know it just look

02:05:54   like the typical metal Apple windows at

02:05:56   the time but to Windows user this was

02:05:59   this weird foreign thing that I really

02:06:00   didn't like and you know this Apple

02:06:02   Apple position has always been well what

02:06:05   we do is the best and we're going to

02:06:07   copy what we do and I on OS 10 for

02:06:10   windows ports and to a quite a deep

02:06:13   level they hit like like with safari

02:06:15   they poured the entire font rendering

02:06:17   and you know pretty quick but also i was

02:06:19   safari we're going to bring up and it's

02:06:21   probably even the best example because

02:06:23   you know the heart and soul of it is

02:06:25   WebKit and that WebKit is just it's the

02:06:28   best web rendering engine man and just

02:06:31   don't see how anybody could deny that

02:06:33   at least its best technically is the

02:06:35   best athletically I you're gonna hear

02:06:37   from both the Opera users about that

02:06:39   though right

02:06:40   ah well maybe not best for everyone but

02:06:43   it's the best general-purpose one and

02:06:45   then they brought it to windows and it

02:06:46   went nowhere just sunk like oh yeah

02:06:49   brick and google chrome i think is now

02:06:52   is google chrome now the most popular

02:06:53   browser on Windows I think so yeah it

02:06:55   certainly is among the people who aren't

02:06:57   using you know 1999 compact boxes you

02:07:03   know running XP you know among people

02:07:06   who are using even vaguely modern

02:07:07   windows computers chrome is the most

02:07:09   popular which is insane given you know

02:07:12   the situation with ie having ninety-one

02:07:15   percent market share ten years ago and

02:07:18   what's chrome it's you know it's at

02:07:21   least chrome on windows i mean i don't

02:07:22   use windows so i can say it but

02:07:23   everybody lies

02:07:24   you know who seems to like it's a it

02:07:26   feels like a Windows app I with WebKit

02:07:32   rather than trying to shoehorn a you

02:07:34   know a mac app on Windows users just

02:07:37   doesn't go over well that's one of the

02:07:39   reasons i don't like I really care that

02:07:40   much for Chrome on iOS 10 because it

02:07:42   still feels like a bit of a windows not

02:07:44   as bad as an apple puts their stuff on

02:07:46   Windows but yes they're not great

02:07:49   that's a whole that's the hold of the

02:07:50   ship it's all so yeah us of your Safari

02:07:52   user I am and and you know this also

02:07:55   hold the show I really have a love-hate

02:07:57   relationship with safari because it

02:07:59   seems like every major version of safari

02:08:02   is you know one step forward two steps

02:08:05   back and it they have safari is so buggy

02:08:08   and mountain lion now it is so

02:08:09   ridiculously buggy it was buggy and lion

02:08:12   it was Bucky and snow leopard and it

02:08:15   no now just different bugs but I'm very

02:08:18   disappointed in general in our industry

02:08:20   for how few options we have for email

02:08:23   clients and web browsers these two like

02:08:26   the two most important apps for so many

02:08:28   people or at least the most frequently

02:08:31   used after so many people and our

02:08:33   options for both are ok but not great as

02:08:38   a long time Mac user though it's see

02:08:39   this is the difference is i could

02:08:41   someone has always used the matter

02:08:44   I still feel like we have so many

02:08:47   choices for web browser because like in

02:08:49   the late nineties if we had zero choices

02:08:51   right that's it really was it was like I

02:08:54   i think it was the single i think it was

02:08:56   the single reason single biggest reason

02:08:57   why they're the had such markets are

02:09:00   problems at the time is that web

02:09:01   browsing was such a problem not sure

02:09:04   anybody even even windows user didn't

02:09:06   have that many options you know we had

02:09:08   two or three so wasn't it wasn't that

02:09:10   different still better than zero that's

02:09:12   true yeah but I you know every browser

02:09:14   has its own problems and and I i use

02:09:17   safari because it fits me the best but

02:09:20   it drives me crazy

02:09:21   almost every day it drives me crazy for

02:09:23   some stupid reason I have to either

02:09:24   restart it was starting to bug out or it

02:09:28   has some kind of weird bug that you know

02:09:30   okay I gotta restart anyway or or

02:09:32   something no there's no or stop

02:09:33   surrendering the bottom half of the page

02:09:35   and it's all white

02:09:36   you know there's that that's a new blog

02:09:37   with mountain line like that it's just

02:09:39   so there's so many weird little problems

02:09:41   that na i wish that Safari adopted more

02:09:45   of the chrome process model where

02:09:48   everything so isolated and everything is

02:09:51   African who art I think I talked about

02:09:52   this on the show a few episodes ago but

02:09:54   yeah I do kind of feel like they lost

02:09:56   they bet wrong on that with them yeah

02:09:58   but the 11 separate want rendering

02:10:01   process versus one for every open tab

02:10:04   right and the reason they use that the

02:10:06   separating process in Lyon was for this

02:10:08   whole sandboxing xspc thing they were

02:10:10   moving towards like that the

02:10:12   architecture of separating out the part

02:10:14   of your program so that if there's a

02:10:16   security hole exploits javascript then I

02:10:19   can't access anything else for example

02:10:20   because it's only their work the web

02:10:22   rendering and like moving to that

02:10:23   introduced tons of bugs and tons of

02:10:25   performance problems and so they fix

02:10:27   some of those now we have other bugs

02:10:29   other performance problems and it's just

02:10:31   like every every year when they make

02:10:33   Safari you know the the new major

02:10:35   version of safari for that year big

02:10:37   shift the bugs around and so I I know

02:10:39   they'll be annoyed in different ways you

02:10:41   know the week later and what mobile

02:10:43   safari i think is great and has only

02:10:45   gotten better yeah you're right mobile

02:10:47   safari awesome

02:10:47   I feel like maybe there's a back to the

02:10:49   mac moment coming from safari where

02:10:52   maybe you know some of the

02:10:54   no I don't know if it's the people or

02:10:56   the color or whatever but like that at

02:10:57   least the philosophy of mobile safari

02:10:59   would be great on Mac os10 see I don't

02:11:03   see it happening because I feel like I

02:11:05   feel like that them the Mac os10 Safari

02:11:08   team seems to have a tolerance for bugs

02:11:12   like it seems like they they are ok

02:11:15   shipping a very buggy version of safari

02:11:18   and that's that's scary to me that i

02:11:20   really dont that does not sit well with

02:11:21   me but it they just shown over the last

02:11:23   23 years or so that they're ok with

02:11:26   these imperfections

02:11:28   well the other thing too and I know I've

02:11:29   mentioned this before but it's I think

02:11:31   it's worth emphasizing is in the old

02:11:33   days back when they used to blog a lot

02:11:35   more i don't i don't think they do that

02:11:37   anymore like the WebKit blogger surfin

02:11:39   Safari blog you know they've hired

02:11:40   things kind of gone quiet but I know

02:11:44   that I hired at least it even said that

02:11:46   they had a rule that you can't check in

02:11:49   anything that causes a regression in the

02:11:53   benchmarks

02:11:54   oh yeah admitted everything faster for a

02:11:56   light on so if you wanted to check

02:11:57   something in that was going to have a a

02:11:59   regression you had to find something

02:12:01   that you had to fix something else where

02:12:03   to get there also that the overall

02:12:04   checking you were about to make came in

02:12:06   under so that Safari only ever got

02:12:08   faster and the idea was that that this

02:12:10   was in contrast to was the idea that you

02:12:13   add features in one mode we're adding

02:12:15   new features and then we'll we'll fix

02:12:17   the performance stuff at the end because

02:12:19   they said and that that doesn't work

02:12:22   because at the end you end up just

02:12:23   having to ship and you're like God crap

02:12:25   now it's lower so that every step of the

02:12:27   way everyday as you're checking and

02:12:29   stuff you cannot make it slower

02:12:30   well at some point they obviously got

02:12:32   the rid of that role i'm pretty sure

02:12:33   that point was when they switched over

02:12:35   to the separate process model for the

02:12:37   renderer I think that's I think it's

02:12:38   very clear that so that's when they gave

02:12:40   that up because they had to and I really

02:12:42   do think that internally i suspect that

02:12:44   there was like a that they did exactly

02:12:47   what what they said long ago you know

02:12:49   the reason they didn't do it they said

02:12:50   well we'll switch to this render and

02:12:52   then we'll make it fast later exactly

02:12:54   anyway read this show has gone on

02:12:58   ridiculously long Marco Arment you

02:12:59   you're very kind with your time as it

02:13:01   was it was great to have you here thanks

02:13:03   my pleasure to be here

02:13:04   I good luck with that

02:13:06   your app Instagram and shooting your

02:13:13   photos with instapaper and how without

02:13:16   it without any filter yeah you should

02:13:19   add filters to instapaper by the way

02:13:20   make it look like an old old crinkled up

02:13:23   newspaper it that's nothing to have that

02:13:26   be great

02:13:27   filters may be in app purchase right you

02:13:30   can have like a USA Today filter put a

02:13:32   big blue circle in the corner of

02:13:34   everything but anyway thank you this is

02:13:37   a good show

02:13:38   see you later all right