The Talk Show

22: Chewbacca Does It Again, with MG Siegler


00:00:00   one of the things that made me think

00:00:01   brad bird is number 1 i'm a big fan of

00:00:03   all of his movies I can't think of a

00:00:06   single one that I didn't enjoy but the

00:00:08   other thing is that he has a track

00:00:09   record of jumping into somebody else's

00:00:12   thing and and sticking with it you know

00:00:15   he did a Mission Impossible movie that

00:00:17   is just a pure Mission Impossible movie

00:00:19   i think the best one since the first one

00:00:21   that the Palmer yet

00:00:23   yeah i agree on a famously he took over

00:00:27   ratatouille after somebody else that it

00:00:30   wasn't his movie at Pixar somebody else

00:00:32   had it and and everybody decided this

00:00:34   isn't working out and he took over it at

00:00:36   a you know late in the game and did well

00:00:39   and that's obviously what somebody's

00:00:40   gonna have to do to make a new star wars

00:00:42   movie not necessarily that takeover and

00:00:44   a half of boarded movie but you're

00:00:47   coming into a series right yeah but i

00:00:52   mean that that person whoever it is will

00:00:55   have a much easier time than it would

00:00:58   appear on the surface just because I

00:01:00   mean I don't know about the people you

00:01:02   know you you chat with on Twitter and

00:01:04   stuff and but everyone there was like

00:01:06   universal acclaim for the fact that

00:01:07   George Lucas will only be a creative

00:01:09   consultant on these things I mean I

00:01:10   think everyone can agree that the the 13

00:01:15   range from suck too bad and so you know

00:01:22   it's big shoes to fill but it's also i

00:01:24   think you know the kind of starting with

00:01:26   a clean slate or they can they can do

00:01:30   what they want so do you think what do

00:01:33   you think they're going to do for these

00:01:34   star wars things because so they went

00:01:36   from George Lucas's obviously on record

00:01:38   as saying that this was it they're never

00:01:40   gonna do another one like he absolutely

00:01:41   said no we're not going to do it and

00:01:43   then you know things change people

00:01:45   people acquire other entities and those

00:01:49   entities have other ideas for what to do

00:01:50   but there's all this you know there's

00:01:52   the surrounding universe of Star Wars

00:01:54   all those books comics etc do they use

00:01:58   any of that or do they just come up with

00:01:59   completely new things now I i say they

00:02:03   go with completely new stuff I think

00:02:05   I've always and I and I know there's

00:02:06   probably a ton of listeners out there

00:02:09   who who are going to disagree but

00:02:11   my opinion is always been that the

00:02:13   movies are the only cannon in Star Wars

00:02:16   yeah and any other stuff is that just it

00:02:19   may have the official logo on it but

00:02:21   it's fanfiction right because i never

00:02:24   got into i read the first one because i

00:02:26   was so excited when the first novel came

00:02:29   out

00:02:30   uh-huh ah because it was unlike 99% sure

00:02:34   yeah I think I've got the timing right

00:02:36   on this where empires are not Empire

00:02:39   return of the jedi comes out in 1983 and

00:02:41   then Lucas is okay i'm done with these

00:02:43   star wars movies for now and right you

00:02:45   know and it did that was the only time

00:02:46   it really late eighties was the only

00:02:48   time r star wars really kind of faded

00:02:50   away where there was no new stuff at all

00:02:52   right in the nineties they said ok we're

00:02:54   going to start some new stuff and ate

00:02:55   the first thing they did was

00:02:56   commissioned a novel and it was terrible

00:03:01   it was so bad and you know what was it

00:03:05   was it an extension of uh of regalia

00:03:09   jetta it took place immediately have to

00:03:11   return of the jedi and it's about this

00:03:12   guy named Grand Admiral something is

00:03:16   like some kind of alien Admiral in the

00:03:18   in the Empire and he was holding what

00:03:22   was left of the empire together and and

00:03:25   and I guess what i really hated about it

00:03:28   was it was just one number one just

00:03:30   wasn't that compelling number two it was

00:03:32   a just well what do you know

00:03:34   once again the entire fate of the galaxy

00:03:36   comes down to Han Solo Princess Leia and

00:03:40   Luke Skywalker all right right Adrian

00:03:43   and I got the impression then after you

00:03:45   know I never read any other stuff but i

00:03:46   can write I'd often pick up the back of

00:03:48   them those novels and see what it is and

00:03:51   it's just a series of you know 40

00:03:53   different incidents where the entire

00:03:55   galaxy comes down to the fate of hunt so

00:03:57   scary and it's late

00:04:00   uh yeah that's a I you know it's sort of

00:04:04   the James Bond movies right so there are

00:04:07   what was it up until I forget you'll

00:04:09   know this which one was it was derived

00:04:12   from an actual even Fleming novel but

00:04:13   they obviously had to break away from

00:04:14   that because they just ran out of novels

00:04:16   doing it I i forget the last one that

00:04:19   was based on anything it's one of the

00:04:20   ones in the seventies one of the Roger

00:04:22   Moore ones and

00:04:23   so they eventually had to move on and

00:04:25   just come up with new stories and they

00:04:26   also have I think the same thing where

00:04:28   they have people doing fanfiction and

00:04:30   doing their own like James Bond things

00:04:32   so it's not as big don't think it's the

00:04:34   star wars element of it but yes so now

00:04:36   the movies are just they hire great

00:04:37   screenwriters well sometimes mediocre

00:04:41   sometimes it's it's the cast on the

00:04:43   screenwriter on strike but they try and

00:04:45   hire great screen writers to write these

00:04:47   things just just from scratch and i

00:04:48   think that works pretty well yeah i

00:04:50   think so too and you know obviously you

00:04:51   know the end and again they went back to

00:04:53   in fleming source material for casino

00:04:56   royale right and did I think a fantastic

00:04:59   job of modernizing it you know because

00:05:01   it was you know that the geopolitics of

00:05:04   the novel written 1959 don't exactly

00:05:06   hold up anymore right

00:05:09   I've heard the new one is is excellent

00:05:11   Ivan Ivan Ivan voided reading any major

00:05:14   review of it but the bugs seems to be

00:05:16   excellent buzz yeah I've actually heard

00:05:18   and dead serious

00:05:20   I mean exactly with you where I've I

00:05:22   almost didn't even want to watch the

00:05:23   trailer but I did and I'm glad I did

00:05:25   because it wasn't a spoiler trailer that

00:05:26   that that no modern format of trailer

00:05:29   with we condense the entire plot into

00:05:31   the 2-minute I wasn't like that at all

00:05:34   too true teaser trailer but the thing

00:05:37   i've heard is that there are people

00:05:38   saying that this seriously could be like

00:05:40   a best-picture movie I don't know about

00:05:44   that i mean i was almost too good to

00:05:46   wish for but it that somebody would even

00:05:47   seriously or even have seriously

00:05:49   suggested says to me all I need to know

00:05:52   will have your burden is always a you

00:05:54   know an actor in some category he seems

00:05:57   to be in every year being nominated for

00:05:59   something so in this is movie this year

00:06:01   so you know maybe yeah I you know I I

00:06:04   just an old adage I don't even you know

00:06:06   i'm sure it distributed to 30 different

00:06:08   directors but that ninety percent of

00:06:10   directing is casting on and i do think

00:06:13   that a lot of the bad James Bond movies

00:06:16   have been really poorly cast word so you

00:06:18   don't even know any of the other guys

00:06:19   who are in there and I can't even name

00:06:20   the actors i visit a hell of a cast

00:06:23   right you get Javier Bardem you got it

00:06:27   isn't rape refined in this yeah ray

00:06:29   fridays in it and i have no idea what he

00:06:31   is and don't have nobody tell me because

00:06:33   i have no idea they get it was

00:06:34   apparently a big secret

00:06:36   good guys and bad guys the traders ii

00:06:38   who knows but you know what can they

00:06:40   have have you ever seen the movie

00:06:42   perfume this kind of strange movie and I

00:06:45   have that's about it's a weird series

00:06:48   like killer with killer with a great

00:06:51   sense of spell movie but it's an

00:06:52   interesting movie is a it's like a

00:06:53   quirky thing but anyway that that guy's

00:06:56   i think is also in the James fun and

00:06:58   he's I don't think I'm spoiling anything

00:07:00   because it isn't the teaser thing where

00:07:01   he's plays a the new quartermaster

00:07:04   yeah yeah I know I knew that yeah he's

00:07:06   like yeah and I are gonna write that

00:07:07   down and watch that

00:07:08   ya know i love the idea i love the idea

00:07:11   that q is that the dynamic now is going

00:07:13   to be that he's young he's like a

00:07:15   twenty-something you know nerd

00:07:18   yeah as opposed to being way older than

00:07:19   bond now he's way younger than one

00:07:21   yeah well you're going back to the star

00:07:24   wars and here's the thing i remember

00:07:26   this is why I'm not surprised that that

00:07:28   there's a 789 that Lucas and I don't

00:07:31   think it's a bad idea that Lucas has an

00:07:32   outline form i think an outline from

00:07:34   Lucas is exactly it's great because you

00:07:36   know he's done the outline of what he's

00:07:39   done for the original six movies is fine

00:07:41   right it's the execution exactly in the

00:07:44   dialogue just keep your eye on its

00:07:46   overhead right and it's just no surprise

00:07:48   that that with Empire Strikes Back he

00:07:50   didn't write the screenplay did the

00:07:51   story and then they went to Lee bracket

00:07:55   who wrote those great nineteen forties

00:07:57   Humphrey Bogart movies which were almost

00:07:59   entirely the entire appeal of them was

00:08:01   the great dialogue

00:08:03   ok so that's you know I think that's a

00:08:05   great direction but here's the thing i

00:08:06   remember is when I was a kid it was so

00:08:09   hard to get information because you know

00:08:11   there was no internet and you would get

00:08:13   these I remember I beg and plead and get

00:08:15   my mom to buy these crazy magazines at

00:08:18   the supermarket these movie magazines

00:08:20   you know like things like fangoria i

00:08:23   think was one yeah right you know and

00:08:25   most of it was just filled and I liked

00:08:27   it all but most of it was filled with

00:08:29   you know like a seven-page thing on how

00:08:33   they did the makeup for American

00:08:35   Werewolf in London which is kind of

00:08:36   interesting how they do makeup and how

00:08:38   they do special effects and stuff like

00:08:39   that but then that's where i would get

00:08:41   tidbits of rumors about Star Wars and my

00:08:46   friends and I would just buy these

00:08:47   magazines and can

00:08:48   assume them just to try to get the

00:08:50   rumors about Star Wars and i remember

00:08:53   back and this is you know early eighties

00:08:55   maybe even before return of the jedi

00:08:58   came out that we knew we'd is like a

00:09:03   good eight nine ten year old kid I knew

00:09:05   that there were going to be nine movies

00:09:08   and that the first three words the you

00:09:10   know these three that the next three

00:09:12   we're going to take place before right

00:09:15   we knew i knew in 1983 that how did will

00:09:18   be our how did Anakin Skywalker turned

00:09:20   into Darth Vader had a lightsaber duel

00:09:22   with obi-wan Kenobi and got knocked into

00:09:25   a pit of lava I'm I knew that when I was

00:09:28   nine and isolated what do i do lily is

00:09:31   kind of abandoned that when he and his

00:09:34   most heinous recent interviews not

00:09:35   recent but a few years ago and write

00:09:37   about the second trilogy ye bandhan just

00:09:39   burnt out or was you think I don't know

00:09:41   my best guess is he just wanted people

00:09:43   to shut up about it stop asking you

00:09:45   and so he always knew he wanted to make

00:09:47   nine but as soon as he finished the

00:09:48   second three he just said there aren't

00:09:50   going to be any more because it's a good

00:09:51   way to get people to stop asking him

00:09:53   when there's gonna be more storms yeah

00:09:55   that's my guess

00:09:56   another thing that wasn't brought up

00:09:58   yesterday he is still in the process of

00:10:00   doing like the 3d transformation all

00:10:02   these right wasn't in the works

00:10:05   yes because i went to see the phantom

00:10:08   menace in 3d with with the with my son

00:10:11   and I think the other ones haven't

00:10:12   haven't come out haven't come out yet

00:10:13   right so i assume that that's still in

00:10:15   the works unless they unless Phantom

00:10:18   Menace I don't know how well it did if

00:10:19   it didn't do well and it wasn't worth

00:10:21   the time and money to to i read great

00:10:23   did it was like middling it did like a

00:10:27   hundred and five million at the box

00:10:28   office in a reissue which was you know

00:10:30   it's a hundred five million box with

00:10:32   right that right that I wonder how much

00:10:34   that cost to do

00:10:35   yeah but it wasn't like a sensation yeah

00:10:38   one you know one other interesting point

00:10:40   on that is someone I saw brought up and

00:10:42   it's just kind of a nice parallel i

00:10:45   think they said that uh mark hamill will

00:10:50   be the same age as alec guinness was in

00:10:53   the original Star Wars when this new

00:10:55   2015 Star Wars comes out really kind of

00:10:58   area to the whole parallel or is

00:11:00   outguess younger than I

00:11:02   I think yeah I think he was 60 sometime

00:11:04   like that

00:11:05   yeah yeah I think that's right i think

00:11:07   that's what they said i think it was

00:11:08   Mark Hamill I don't know he always

00:11:10   looked all I've always thought that was

00:11:12   one of those continuity things that just

00:11:13   doesn't seem to add up is that how old

00:11:18   you and mcgregor looks at the end of

00:11:20   episode three when he's handing over

00:11:22   baby Luke to the family where I compared

00:11:25   to and was it 19 years later 20 years

00:11:27   later in the nineteen or twenty years

00:11:29   later when when the next one picks up

00:11:31   the right right looks like he had over

00:11:33   20 years

00:11:35   yeah I've always having my back of my

00:11:37   mind I've always thought I was gonna do

00:11:39   to commission some sort of parody thing

00:11:41   that I thought it would be funny that

00:11:43   you know in this question of hey why not

00:11:46   in those intervening 20 years why did

00:11:48   Yoda and obi-wan go into hiding rather

00:11:50   than like try to kick some ass around

00:11:52   the galaxy right in my I always thought

00:11:55   the funniest explanation would be that

00:11:56   he he just drank himself sick and that

00:11:59   can happen and you know like that's why

00:12:01   he knows you can see it as a good look

00:12:03   yeah that's a lie like that I like that

00:12:05   because it really does seem like he's

00:12:07   headed very a really rough 20 years

00:12:10   well and ewan mcgregor did a good job of

00:12:12   the voice stuff right like he's he did a

00:12:14   fantastic job he's constantly mimicking

00:12:17   Alec Guinness his voice and yes just

00:12:19   like they could have done a little bit

00:12:20   more makeup work yes and in the third

00:12:22   one to show him slowly deteriorating

00:12:25   something like that

00:12:27   I well remember when they were

00:12:28   originally casting the new trilogy one

00:12:31   of the rumors was that kenneth branagh

00:12:34   was up for the role of obi-wan Kenobi

00:12:37   ok so even closer in age than at least

00:12:40   liked for the Aged discrepancy right and

00:12:42   i think that the guy i think the

00:12:44   explanation was that he had read Lucas

00:12:47   reconsidered how big of a span he wanted

00:12:49   to cover and wanted to have a truly

00:12:52   young obi-wan in the first one you know

00:12:54   like I don't know how old he was but he

00:12:56   was supposed to know you still a Padawan

00:12:57   and right he has a rat tail so it's

00:13:01   probably like you know right yeah 20 but

00:13:04   i think though that kenneth branagh

00:13:06   would have been it would have made the

00:13:07   continuity feel more by the end of the

00:13:10   three movies would have made it feel a

00:13:12   little bit more

00:13:13   again it's about 20 years before Alec

00:13:16   Guinness so do you think with these new

00:13:18   ones you think they do continuation or

00:13:21   all new characters I mean they'll have

00:13:23   to do some obviously tions to the to the

00:13:26   previous original trilogy right i really

00:13:29   don't know and that was the one thing

00:13:31   you know that

00:13:33   yeah and and there do you see the thing

00:13:36   that came out today that mark hamill

00:13:38   said in an interview that George Lucas

00:13:40   had told that had lunch with him and

00:13:42   Carrie Fisher a year ago and told them

00:13:45   like a year ago and said look you can't

00:13:47   tell anybody but I'm going to do three

00:13:48   more movies and I guess there was

00:13:49   nothing interview interview that said I

00:13:51   want you guys in it

00:13:52   alright it just he just said I just like

00:13:55   you guys should know because it's gonna

00:13:57   come out you know it's gonna come out

00:13:58   eventually I wanted you guys to know

00:14:00   that and they're going to be sequels

00:14:01   that take place later but I you know

00:14:03   whether it's 20 30 years and those

00:14:05   characters are still alive or whether

00:14:06   it's you know thousand generations or

00:14:09   something like that I don't know

00:14:11   yeah well if they want to I mean the

00:14:14   every indication by disney now is that

00:14:15   they want to keep keep this going

00:14:17   indefinitely almost like a James Bond

00:14:18   type thing where you know even new one

00:14:20   every few years so if they do that then

00:14:22   I assume they start pretty soon after

00:14:25   the the original trilogy and then just

00:14:26   keep going into the future and trying to

00:14:28   make compelling characters right be kind

00:14:31   of cool if it was just like rumored you

00:14:32   know like that there's this guy Luke

00:14:34   Skywalker's I don't know I definitely

00:14:36   think it could be it's very yet I feel

00:14:38   like it could be great and I but I feel

00:14:39   like the worst thing would be if it's

00:14:41   you know Lucan land and I I can't

00:14:45   imagine Harrison Ford want anything to

00:14:46   do with it and right now Luke and Leia

00:14:50   and Chewbacca save the galaxy again

00:14:53   okay yeah pretty exciting

00:14:58   yeah I'm surprised I'm kind of so i

00:15:01   don't know i mean obviously I've never

00:15:02   met George Lucas but I'm just surprised

00:15:09   it from what I thought about him that

00:15:10   just you know I guess he wants to get

00:15:11   into charity and I guess if you're gonna

00:15:13   write you can do that me know if that's

00:15:15   really where your passion is you know it

00:15:17   just doesn't make sense to me

00:15:18   he clearly has yet I think he's ok he's

00:15:20   already billionaire right from from all

00:15:22   those movies like he his big thing was

00:15:24   that he did such a good job of the

00:15:26   the cutting the deals to get the

00:15:28   merchandising rights right i mean that's

00:15:30   very made most of his money off of off

00:15:32   of all the Star Wars movies and the

00:15:35   movies themselves made you know over a

00:15:36   billion dollars but that's small

00:15:38   compared to what they make on the toy

00:15:40   sales and all that other stuff and so

00:15:42   yeah he clearly didn't need the money to

00:15:45   do it but maybe don't know maybe feels

00:15:47   like Disney will be a good shepherd I

00:15:48   mean Bob Iger seems to be awesome at

00:15:50   cutting these these types of deals I i

00:15:52   actually just want to take him at his

00:15:54   word and that he you know he wasn't

00:15:56   going to make anymore he wants us to

00:15:57   stay evergreen and you who better to has

00:16:01   a better track record of keeping

00:16:03   franchises a live decade after decade

00:16:06   than disney right you know and have done

00:16:09   a very good job with the muppets they've

00:16:11   done a good job with that

00:16:12   well marvel it's hard to judge so far

00:16:14   that's right it's too early but they've

00:16:17   done a good job so far with those films

00:16:18   and they do a great job with the

00:16:20   merchandising which has always been so

00:16:21   important to start were so right

00:16:23   yeah it's a good fit yeah very exciting

00:16:25   as i said i tweeted this and couple a

00:16:29   lot of people retweeted it and it does

00:16:31   it weirds me out is that it is going to

00:16:33   be really weird to have a Star Wars

00:16:34   movie open without the 20th century five

00:16:37   and fair

00:16:38   yeah yeah I wonder do they did they

00:16:41   retain any sort of Rights for like Co

00:16:45   distribution of any future properties no

00:16:48   okay and it's different with Indiana

00:16:50   Jones paramount has anything if they do

00:16:54   anything with Indiana Jones it's gonna

00:16:56   have to be with paramount cooperation

00:16:58   ok on in some degree or they have to buy

00:17:02   them out they are there's something that

00:17:03   have to buy up and our warriors and

00:17:05   that's because like Spielberg it's that

00:17:07   this is so incestuous right so

00:17:09   Spielberg's Amblin group had a deal with

00:17:11   paramount back then when they were doing

00:17:13   that and then Kathleen Kennedy was his

00:17:15   production partner and now Kathleen

00:17:16   Kennedy is the president of a Lucasfilm

00:17:20   at disney so it's like all these things

00:17:23   are tied together directly i didn't

00:17:28   think about that i didn't put those that

00:17:29   her name together there

00:17:30   yeah the three of them are all like yeah

00:17:33   Lucas spill Bergen in kathleen kennedy

00:17:35   obviously have been closed for a long

00:17:37   time and now that's all sort of related

00:17:39   and then

00:17:39   so I don't know but everybody but 20th

00:17:42   Century Fox has nothing going forward

00:17:44   with the new trilogy the only thing that

00:17:46   they have and it is fascinating is the

00:17:49   20th Century Fox has perpetual rights

00:17:55   into infinity for the original 1977 star

00:17:59   wars a new hope for the distribution of

00:18:01   it all that's interesting day they have

00:18:03   Empire and return of the jedi until like

00:18:07   20 20 or something like that and I don't

00:18:09   think they end the new ones they were

00:18:12   just you know Lucas was in a position of

00:18:13   power where they they were just

00:18:15   discussing later

00:18:16   something must they must be pushing them

00:18:18   to do this 3d stuff because they want to

00:18:20   squeeze as much money before 2020 or

00:18:22   whatever it is they can out of this

00:18:24   yeah i think so and that the idea was

00:18:26   that once these other three movies are

00:18:28   done figured 2015 given two for each

00:18:32   year two years reach 2015 17 19 that by

00:18:36   2020 it would be nice to be able to buy

00:18:39   a 9 movie box set but that it would

00:18:41   never be possible without either buying

00:18:44   20th Century Fox's rights for that

00:18:47   original 1977 one or doing it in

00:18:51   cooperation with them that's that you

00:18:54   know that's that's interesting when

00:18:55   thinking about the james bond series

00:18:57   again right because uh who is it it

00:18:59   might make me paramount that owns the

00:19:01   rights to one I think it's thunderball

00:19:03   and that's why they redid the night that

00:19:06   bond movie in the eighties with with

00:19:08   Connor e-learning never seen ya never

00:19:10   say never again because that's the only

00:19:12   one they own the rights to that's the

00:19:13   only one that the the broccoli family

00:19:16   doesn't have complete rights to it i

00:19:19   believe

00:19:20   yeah it's a very it I i really got

00:19:23   obsessed with that a while ago is when

00:19:24   Dan Benjamin and I were going through

00:19:26   all the james bond movie and we decided

00:19:28   to treat it as one because the honorees

00:19:30   and it's a bond movie

00:19:31   yeah it's like he had agreed to do a

00:19:36   teleplay Ian Fleming I'm wasn't a James

00:19:40   Bond story i don't think it was just a

00:19:42   spy caper for like the BBC television

00:19:44   with a co-writer yeah and it fell

00:19:47   through never happened and he took the

00:19:50   guts of the story which was just the

00:19:52   basic idea of it

00:19:53   terrorist organization steals a nuclear

00:19:56   bomb by hijacking by having a trader on

00:19:59   a a pilot Air Force pilot because a

00:20:03   trader for this terrorist group and

00:20:05   that's how they get ahold of a nuclear

00:20:06   bomb and they just want to ransom it off

00:20:09   ok good story but he took it and made it

00:20:12   into a bond novel and the litigation

00:20:15   started and it was all ongoing and the

00:20:18   broccoli group went ahead and made a

00:20:20   movie out of thunderball anyway even

00:20:21   though they had some of their advisors

00:20:23   are saying maybe we shouldn't do this

00:20:24   one to keep you know let's do another

00:20:26   one he's already got 60 these novels

00:20:28   don't do thunderball yet because there's

00:20:29   this legally questionable weird anyway

00:20:32   and it was a huge hit i mean it was you

00:20:34   know is i might have been making the

00:20:38   biggest it might have been the biggest

00:20:39   one because it was the fourth one and

00:20:40   Goldfinger was was one of a kind of

00:20:43   broke through as a sensation and

00:20:44   thunderbird is just an unbelievable

00:20:45   follow-up Ron and it was like more of a

00:20:49   spectacular in terms of the effects with

00:20:51   all the underwater fighting and stuff it

00:20:54   was I get people were going back to see

00:20:56   it again and again because they were

00:20:57   seeing things in everything but anyway

00:20:58   they ended up losing the litigation and

00:21:00   lost money on it and and that the gist

00:21:03   of it was that both Fleming and the

00:21:07   original guy got co-writes to the

00:21:09   Thunderbolt James Bond thunderball story

00:21:11   so the broccoli group if they wanted to

00:21:12   could make a new do it fireball it but

00:21:16   there's this other group at you know i

00:21:18   think you're right that it's paramount

00:21:19   could do it to like they could still

00:21:22   make any they still could make a James

00:21:24   Bond movie if it follows the plot and I

00:21:27   think they were I believe that almost

00:21:29   happened in the nineties when they were

00:21:31   in between the Dalton and bras and stuff

00:21:33   i think that a group was exploring

00:21:36   rebooting before gold and I came out for

00:21:40   paramount or whoever the other studio is

00:21:42   but yeah it would've had to use that

00:21:44   same they're just gonna remake it every

00:21:46   10 years I guess Nam and so I wonder if

00:21:48   with with Star Wars now since since 20

00:21:51   Century Fox owns those the rights to the

00:21:53   first one if they do like a remake of a

00:21:57   new hope with like six year old mark

00:21:59   hamill and I don't know if you that

00:22:01   would be it would be interesting if they

00:22:03   have the right to do whatever they want

00:22:04   like that or just the rights to

00:22:06   distribute

00:22:06   the movie as it was made you know you

00:22:08   got me interested yeah I don't know

00:22:11   fascinating stuff though really is yes

00:22:14   us all right let's do that the nerd why

00:22:18   that's nerd stuff too but that one their

00:22:20   stuff right actually quite a bit of

00:22:22   applications now the Apple the ipad mini

00:22:25   ipad for seems like everybody did what I

00:22:28   did it seems i didn't really discuss

00:22:30   with anybody but I i had to review units

00:22:32   from apple and an ipad 4 and iPad Mini

00:22:35   yep i spent all week with the ipad mini

00:22:37   and i use the ipad for free like 15

00:22:40   minutes just did you not give it a kick

00:22:42   kick the tires run some benchmarks and

00:22:44   as I get it just like the ipad 3 about

00:22:46   twice as fast

00:22:47   yeah that the problem is I don't know if

00:22:51   you ran into this like I was trying to

00:22:52   test the the fourth-generation iPad and

00:22:55   it the ipad 3 is already so fast for

00:22:59   every app that I try to run it's just

00:23:01   like it's hard to gauge I think you know

00:23:04   things load faster generally but it's I

00:23:07   mean it was already loading so fast so

00:23:09   we're really gonna have to wait for

00:23:10   developers to come up with kind of crazy

00:23:12   apps to take advantage of the a6x and

00:23:16   and the new graphics capabilities and

00:23:18   we're just not there yet

00:23:19   yeah aiight i saw a demo of one kind of

00:23:23   during the briefing thing of of game

00:23:27   that was specifically built for the new

00:23:29   technical capabilities and looked

00:23:30   amazing you know different lens flares

00:23:33   and all kinds of different things going

00:23:34   on graphically but yeah it's it's really

00:23:38   it was really pretty hard to to try to

00:23:41   review this fourth-generation iPad since

00:23:43   it is you know for all intents and

00:23:45   purposes a an ipad 3 s right

00:23:48   yes and it's true too because you know

00:23:50   that the games were already out there

00:23:51   they're the developers aren't going to

00:23:54   target hardware beyond what's already

00:23:55   out there so anything that's already am

00:23:57   store is meant to run well on the ipad 3

00:23:59   yep or at least on the ipad 3 if not

00:24:02   even older ipad so did you know that

00:24:04   I've had for is going to use you know go

00:24:06   through that without even breaking a

00:24:08   sweat

00:24:09   yeah so yeah I think we all i think i

00:24:11   saw that too that pretty much everyone

00:24:12   roped in there just a quick mention

00:24:14   about the the ipad fortune in their ipad

00:24:17   mini review yeah but i really like

00:24:19   did the ipad mini I really all I think I

00:24:23   like it more

00:24:24   you know I'm gonna take a lot of shit

00:24:26   for saying that but I think I like it

00:24:27   more each day like the more I just use

00:24:29   it just seems to be a much more natural

00:24:31   way to just interact with them with a

00:24:36   tablet seems like it and I I'd feeling I

00:24:38   would feel that way given my thoughts

00:24:40   about the nexus 7 the form factor in

00:24:42   general and it just seems like Apple had

00:24:46   an opportunity to really nail this form

00:24:48   factor and I think they did I wanted two

00:24:50   things that struck me i didn't put in my

00:24:52   review but and i actually just saved it

00:24:54   for the show cuz it it anyway sound

00:24:56   better than it would read better but it

00:24:58   took me feels like more of a pad like

00:25:02   the your word pad fits better here

00:25:05   whereas the full-sized iPad is more of a

00:25:08   tap tablet seems like the right word

00:25:09   right like this big thing that Moses

00:25:11   came down the mountain with a big tablet

00:25:13   yeah that's that's a good way to put it

00:25:15   i agree with that this feels more like a

00:25:17   pattern i know people have been

00:25:18   comparing it to like you know the weight

00:25:21   to like a pad of paper at it they are

00:25:23   very similar it's you know it's even

00:25:25   smaller than like a mosque in notebook

00:25:28   or doing a bigger normal skin notebook

00:25:31   right on probably equivalent to like the

00:25:34   the more pocket-sized moleskin notebook

00:25:36   it really just pad feels like the right

00:25:38   word and I do feel like this is sort of

00:25:40   the natural especially for someone and i

00:25:42   really emphasize this as someone who

00:25:44   still has and wants to have a portable a

00:25:48   real portable laptop computer like a

00:25:50   macbook air macbook pro or something

00:25:52   like that as a secondary portable

00:25:56   computer this seems like a better form

00:25:57   factor

00:25:58   yeah and I think that's why you know

00:26:01   some people are already questioning well

00:26:02   how does this fit into the lineup I mean

00:26:04   you know you got an ipad already why

00:26:06   someone would buy this

00:26:07   I do think that'll that more people are

00:26:08   going to end up buying an ipad mini I

00:26:10   mean I know it's it's early and and who

00:26:12   knows how this will actually play out

00:26:14   especially given the price element of it

00:26:15   but this just seems like the thing that

00:26:18   people will want especially the people

00:26:21   that you're talking about which is most

00:26:23   people most people already have a

00:26:24   computer of course and so they're

00:26:26   wondering like why should i get an ipad

00:26:27   when I already have a computer maybe

00:26:28   i'll get an ipad you know when my

00:26:30   computer dies or something like that but

00:26:32   this

00:26:32   this is a pretty natural transition

00:26:34   point to have both so yeah that's why I

00:26:38   think that this thing maybe soon as next

00:26:41   quarter could end up about selling the

00:26:43   the iPad itself i really i think for the

00:26:45   holiday quarter i really do and part of

00:26:47   the reaction and it's one basing it on a

00:26:48   sample size of one almost nine year old

00:26:52   boy but there is a note no doubt in my

00:26:55   mind that if you sent if you gave my son

00:26:57   400 bucks put them in the apple store

00:26:59   and so you can buy whatever i pod you

00:27:02   want our iPad well whatever you want 400

00:27:06   bucks i think there's no doubt in my

00:27:08   mind that he would buy the ipad mini

00:27:09   this is no question he wouldn't know how

00:27:12   is he so that's I'm pretty interested in

00:27:14   that because i have no real a data point

00:27:17   there yet in terms of like kids using it

00:27:20   so that's a huge thing for the iPad

00:27:22   itself and everyone knows this by now

00:27:25   but what about the ipad mini with kids

00:27:27   like how did your son use I wanted to

00:27:30   play games on it and you know and he

00:27:32   does he does read he reads it does I

00:27:34   books on his ipad is an old think it's a

00:27:38   first gen ipad actually the one that we

00:27:40   have been around that's for him to use

00:27:41   but it's definitely pretty resonant

00:27:43   either a one or two but it always has

00:27:46   surprised me that he uses it less than

00:27:49   his old last generation Knockaround

00:27:51   iphone that we given he plays more games

00:27:55   has played can you know consistently

00:27:58   more games on an iphone then on an iPad

00:28:01   even when it's not because we were out

00:28:03   it out about and that's what was easy to

00:28:05   take form it's in the house when he's on

00:28:08   the couch and he's just playing games he

00:28:09   likes that because i think that the the

00:28:11   weight of the idea is a it just feels

00:28:14   like work whereas he really likes the

00:28:16   size of this is like what you know is

00:28:17   his take was I can't believe they didn't

00:28:19   make them all like this so yeah I wrote

00:28:22   in my review and I think I'm not it i'm

00:28:25   not a huge gamer by any stretch but it

00:28:27   seems like when i was playing some of

00:28:29   the just testing out some of the

00:28:30   different ipad optimized games on this

00:28:33   ipad mini this seems like an absolute

00:28:35   killer gaming device like I don't know

00:28:37   why people would still buy an xbox or

00:28:41   you know obviously there's going to be

00:28:43   games that have

00:28:44   with more better graphics capabilities

00:28:47   and you know some more involved games

00:28:50   but for casual gaming this is an

00:28:51   absolute killer device for that it's

00:28:53   like the perfect size and it almost

00:28:55   feels like these games were tailored for

00:28:57   an ipad this size rather than the larger

00:29:00   size because like where your hands are

00:29:01   situated and you know you have well you

00:29:04   don't have a you know the side bezel now

00:29:05   really on the when you're holding it in

00:29:07   portrait mode in landscape mode you

00:29:09   still have that and it's just it seems

00:29:11   like a really awesome gaming machines

00:29:13   yeah i think so too i really do think

00:29:15   that in some ways maybe it's more of a

00:29:18   devastating competitive move to nintendo

00:29:21   and Joanie yes then it is to google and

00:29:26   amazon you know because especially with

00:29:28   isn't nintendo I you know I haven't seen

00:29:30   too much about it but I know it's coming

00:29:32   out the wii u their new gaming systems

00:29:35   they're gonna be first to market of the

00:29:37   next-generation gaming system with this

00:29:39   wii u thing in I mean it's sort of not

00:29:42   too different from what the ipad mini is

00:29:45   doing right it's like the handheld

00:29:47   touchable hold it with two hands type

00:29:50   thing and i think that i mean this is

00:29:53   this is going to be huge for for kids it

00:29:55   gaming and for just people like casual

00:29:57   games now I don't count nintendo out

00:29:59   cause I'm a huge fan of Nintendo's work

00:30:01   and I think they really do sweat the

00:30:03   details and and in an apple-like way

00:30:05   about getting gameplay right buttons

00:30:07   right into that but I just think that

00:30:09   the ipad could risk taking so much

00:30:12   oxygen out of the room that there

00:30:13   there's not enough left for nintendo no

00:30:15   matter how good the product they come

00:30:17   out with this

00:30:18   yeah and I mean we this gets brought up

00:30:21   every every quarter at least but how

00:30:23   awesome would it be if Apple just bought

00:30:25   nintendo I mean it would be it would be

00:30:27   such a great selling point for these

00:30:30   devices it makes sense for Apple to do

00:30:32   because that's that's will get people

00:30:35   specifically just to buy an ipad mini to

00:30:37   be able to play mario and zelda and

00:30:39   those and those types of IP it seems

00:30:40   like Nintendo like the reports out of

00:30:42   Japan they're very proud company

00:30:43   obviously they don't want to do that but

00:30:45   Apple has the money of course to do it

00:30:47   and it's just a question of what it

00:30:48   would it work could they make it work

00:30:50   and would it make sense to maybe keep

00:30:52   them get them out of the hardware game

00:30:54   and keep them is like into almost

00:30:56   independent

00:30:57   content game you know just focus on

00:31:01   making games will make the devices you

00:31:04   focus on your library you know almost

00:31:07   again like Star Wars this great library

00:31:09   of classic characters and games and

00:31:12   innovative new stuff that's really

00:31:16   really super engaging yeah and i think

00:31:19   that they would avoid what you know what

00:31:21   would be the pitfall of potential

00:31:23   pitfall of this which is that you know

00:31:25   well apples moving into gaming now

00:31:26   everyone else watch out but the gaming

00:31:28   environment is such a big thing and this

00:31:30   is worked well for nintendo in the past

00:31:32   and all these other guys they make their

00:31:33   games everyone makes their own games but

00:31:35   then they have the larger ecosystem and

00:31:37   it's kind of like pushing the envelope

00:31:38   for nintendo's always been good at at

00:31:40   setting a new high bar and kind of the

00:31:42   other guys trying to to match it and

00:31:44   apple could do the same thing with their

00:31:46   own gaming studio under nintendo if they

00:31:48   did that or if they worked out some kind

00:31:51   of deal you know maybe they want to

00:31:53   require you to do some kind of the

00:31:54   essence in deal where they encourage

00:31:56   them to you know somehow do we

00:31:58   exclusively producing yeah stuff might

00:32:01   have to imagine that all of those guys

00:32:03   have been talking about this for years

00:32:04   and microsoft sony well maybe not

00:32:08   something i don't know what the rivalry

00:32:09   like is its with sony and nintendo maybe

00:32:11   they hate each other but Microsoft

00:32:14   certainly had to have has to have

00:32:15   constantly been approaching intended to

00:32:17   try and make those games available on

00:32:19   xbox because it's such a gold mine right

00:32:21   well it's two hands they have number one

00:32:24   they have nintendo has tremendous talent

00:32:27   yes I mean then consistently you know

00:32:29   they just have great great game

00:32:31   designers and artists and the second

00:32:34   thing i have is this library of

00:32:36   characters which as that the Marvel

00:32:39   acquisition and the star wars

00:32:40   acquisition show has unbelievable value

00:32:43   I mean then you know that's been long

00:32:45   enough that you know there's no doubt

00:32:47   that these guys like Mario and Donkey

00:32:49   Kong and those guys are you know maybe

00:32:52   they're not quite at the level of the

00:32:53   Disney characters like Donald Duck and

00:32:55   Mickey and those guys but they're very

00:32:56   very close and maybe I would be

00:32:58   surprised if in Asia their greater yeah

00:33:01   oh yeah that's it i would be surprised

00:33:04   either a disney tries to acquire a

00:33:05   nintendo I we may write in their

00:33:07   wheelhouse know and that definitely

00:33:08   seems like their strategies if you

00:33:10   not evergreen ensemble of these

00:33:14   characters that were a no and its family

00:33:16   and their family friend friendly than

00:33:17   where we want them

00:33:19   yeah no doubt about it ok with the game

00:33:25   I think of and I don't play enough games

00:33:26   to really to be a great judge of it but

00:33:29   I know the one game i sometimes like to

00:33:30   play as the real racing games on ipad

00:33:33   and it's it's I think it's definitely

00:33:35   better on the mini no doubt in my mind

00:33:37   because it's you know it's just far less

00:33:39   to hold out in front of you i mean your

00:33:41   arms are sticking straight up and then

00:33:42   you know doing this thing where you're

00:33:44   turning the screen with a pound and a

00:33:47   half vs. you know seven-tenths of Amelia

00:33:50   it's right you know it's a huge

00:33:52   difference so I do think that gaming

00:33:54   alone i think ipad mini and so is going

00:33:56   to be a hit and so let's talk about the

00:34:00   screen that's obviously I mean every

00:34:02   review had to say it because it's just

00:34:04   straight in front of you anyone who's

00:34:06   used retina display for extended period

00:34:08   of time will be immediately kind of

00:34:12   turned off

00:34:13   I at first by the screen because it's

00:34:15   not retin-a quality and you know to me

00:34:19   that kind of faded over time but then I

00:34:20   switch back to you know I've got the

00:34:22   retina mac and of course the retina

00:34:24   iphone and the retina iPad and so it's

00:34:27   just it's pretty jarring but you know

00:34:30   the larger point is that most people

00:34:32   still don't have iPads and there's

00:34:34   plenty of people still with with non

00:34:37   retina displays on their various devices

00:34:39   who won't who you know it

00:34:41   this is still a great display it's just

00:34:43   not a Retina display no I you know I'd

00:34:46   really that was my first I was just

00:34:48   really disappointed after a week I got

00:34:50   used to it especially because I stopped

00:34:51   using the other ipad i wanted to you

00:34:53   know most people normal people are going

00:34:55   to more than one ipad that they use so i

00:34:57   just use the mini for a week and I got

00:34:59   used to it but i also am clearly i am

00:35:02   very self aware that I am far more

00:35:04   obsessed with screen resolution

00:35:07   resolution than most people and also

00:35:10   specifically with the rendering of type

00:35:13   on screen yeah you know I mean I know

00:35:16   how to recognize Ariel from the

00:35:17   helvetica

00:35:18   normal people don't know where normal

00:35:19   people just don't see that big a

00:35:21   difference between redneck

00:35:22   non retina and i really do think i am

00:35:25   convinced absolutely

00:35:27   well I'll say 99.8 percent convinced

00:35:31   that the ipad 2 has continued to sell

00:35:35   very very well maybe even surprisingly

00:35:38   well at 399 alongside the retina iPad

00:35:42   threes that people are going into apple

00:35:44   stores for the last seven months seeing

00:35:46   the ipad 2 right next to the retina iPad

00:35:50   threes and saying WOW 399 I'll take this

00:35:53   one

00:35:53   yeah and I tried to get some sort of

00:35:55   answer out of Apple about that they they

00:35:57   won't give you anything specific but it

00:36:00   seems like certainly education comes

00:36:02   into play there are you know they're

00:36:04   they're selling the cheaper versions and

00:36:05   they I think they sell them at a

00:36:06   discount right if they if they sell them

00:36:08   in bulk and so education is a part of

00:36:12   that but yeah there's no question that

00:36:14   they're selling the ipad 2 for a reason

00:36:17   even though they discontinued the

00:36:18   third-generation ipad right like rather

00:36:20   than doing fourth-generation move the

00:36:22   ipad 3 down to the 399 price they just

00:36:25   killed that off and now they're just

00:36:26   doing the ipad 2 and so that says all

00:36:29   you need to know right there that

00:36:30   obviously it had to have been selling

00:36:32   well and so its existence proof that

00:36:35   right now today you do not need a Retina

00:36:37   display and an ipad to sell well yeah

00:36:40   it's you know it would be nice and

00:36:42   surely eventually whether it's a year

00:36:44   from now or 18 months from now or two

00:36:46   years from now there's going to be an

00:36:48   ipad mini with retina display it just is

00:36:50   not right

00:36:50   right as rain you know I'm sure it's you

00:36:52   know night follows day but and that's

00:36:55   going to be great and I'm going to love

00:36:56   it and I'm going to be so happy but in

00:36:58   the meantime there's absolutely no

00:37:00   reason that this isn't going to continue

00:37:01   to sell really well and I think the ipad

00:37:04   to you know whether Apple did

00:37:05   intentionally or not it's it made the

00:37:09   timing of this ipad mini pretty perfect

00:37:12   because had there been nothing but a

00:37:15   Retina Display ipad out there first so

00:37:18   the four and three the downgrade would

00:37:21   have been much more dramatic but the

00:37:22   fact that they are still selling the two

00:37:24   you know they don't have to come in with

00:37:26   a product that's the that's really

00:37:28   downgrade in anyway it's just it's a

00:37:30   better ipad2 right it's not a it's not a

00:37:32   downgraded ipad forward now

00:37:35   no it's a great product alright let me

00:37:37   take a break into the first sponsor for

00:37:38   sponsor is apps fire apps fire

00:37:42   it's an alternative interface to the

00:37:44   appstore here's the problem that they

00:37:45   try to solve the problem they try to

00:37:47   solve is that it is insanely difficult

00:37:48   to find the best apps in the App Store

00:37:51   easy to find the most popular apps right

00:37:54   apple makes these list of categories

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00:40:50   week I went to the point to the

00:40:52   Microsoft Windows 8 event

00:40:53   mom you did I didn't know that yeah I

00:40:55   hope I came in on a red-eye from the

00:40:57   west coast after the apple thing and

00:40:58   after being in LA to record last week's

00:41:00   the talk show

00:41:01   uh-huh but i was so happy that they

00:41:05   invited me and I really didn't want to

00:41:07   miss it because i really wanted to see

00:41:09   it and I'm really am glad that I went I

00:41:11   haven't been to a microsoft event before

00:41:13   so before you get into that let me let

00:41:16   me bring up something here because it's

00:41:18   fascinating that that you that they

00:41:21   invited you

00:41:21   I've heard specifically now from a few

00:41:23   different people that they do not want

00:41:26   me to have a surface

00:41:28   um and I've heard that from internally

00:41:30   within the company like their advocate

00:41:32   you have friends there and stuff we're

00:41:33   trying to see if I could do it just you

00:41:35   know either door viewer just play around

00:41:37   with it whatever and they do not want me

00:41:40   to have one and I don't know if that

00:41:42   speaks to the fact that obviously they

00:41:44   think i'm going to be biased in some way

00:41:46   shape or form but I mean they should

00:41:50   understand that if i take a shit on it

00:41:53   and then it ends up being a good device

00:41:54   I look like an ass

00:41:55   exactly thats really everybody doesn't

00:41:57   seem too

00:41:58   get right and it's I have to be honest

00:42:00   about it so I don't know what they're

00:42:02   afraid of or whatever it is and I've had

00:42:06   a fine relationship with Microsoft in

00:42:07   the past they just seemed to not want me

00:42:10   to have this device I just saw the same

00:42:13   thing with harry mccracken review of the

00:42:15   ipad mini 4 time and somebody in the

00:42:17   comments or on Twitter was like wow what

00:42:19   a surprise another positive review of an

00:42:21   apple device and time five in a row and

00:42:24   and McRae's responses will look at those

00:42:27   five devices are in hindsight are they

00:42:29   good devices i think i'm actually think

00:42:31   that you know I've done a good job i've

00:42:33   called it is you know accurately these

00:42:35   have been great device it's so

00:42:36   ridiculous right and into Google's

00:42:39   credit they're great at this like they

00:42:40   know that I'm not the biggest android

00:42:42   fan in the world but they still sent me

00:42:44   all these units to try it try out see

00:42:46   what I think about it and you know they

00:42:49   seem to appreciate at least my take on

00:42:51   it whether or not they agree with it

00:42:53   home and your your nexus 7 review was

00:42:55   actually very very positive and unite

00:42:57   active is going to be right right yeah

00:43:00   so I don't know

00:43:02   yeah so it's good to hear that Microsoft

00:43:03   invited you to the event that they're

00:43:05   not blackballing all of us if they are

00:43:06   black by me i don't know i I've heard

00:43:08   this a couple times now to believe it to

00:43:10   be true but on this edition they should

00:43:12   reread what you write and well like when

00:43:14   I say if they think I'm fair they should

00:43:16   i think they should have a similar

00:43:17   opinion of you honestly

00:43:19   well anyway it sounds it easily I don't

00:43:21   know he's a fan of daring fireball but

00:43:22   at least that sandusky read it and and

00:43:24   respects it yeah uh it was so i want to

00:43:28   write about it but like that and i'm

00:43:30   kinda it's kinda off the clay but it's

00:43:32   just been such a busy week that I

00:43:34   haven't gotten around to it yet but just

00:43:35   off the cuff that the gist of it was so

00:43:37   interesting to me because it was except

00:43:40   everyone just think about it from a PR

00:43:42   standpoint of a product marketing

00:43:43   standpoint what a tough position

00:43:45   neighbor in where they wanted to in vail

00:43:47   two things they wanted to unveil the new

00:43:49   operating system which is for all these

00:43:51   ecosystem partners and they want to do

00:43:53   unveiled their own surface device which

00:43:57   competes with those partners like how do

00:43:59   you do that and one of that right and so

00:44:02   with the weight without having to events

00:44:04   the same day that's that's what I found

00:44:07   so interesting

00:44:08   the morning was like a reverse apple

00:44:11   event ten o'clock the doors open you

00:44:13   come in and you do your registration and

00:44:16   the first thing you have is a big hands

00:44:18   on area with all of these devices from

00:44:21   acer and asus and samsung and HP and

00:44:25   dell think paso you you try them out

00:44:30   before they talk about the first thing

00:44:31   you do is come in and add you know is a

00:44:33   nice to not bigger in a coffee and juice

00:44:36   and stuff like that but all these hands

00:44:37   on things and and you know just anything

00:44:40   that was ready on day one was there and

00:44:42   very few desktops there was like one or

00:44:44   two

00:44:45   I'm a Kish ask all-in-one desktops but

00:44:48   almost entirely tablets and convertible

00:44:55   tablets you know any any way that you

00:44:56   can imagine that there's a way to secure

00:44:59   a touchscreen tablet to a keyboard dock

00:45:02   type thing

00:45:04   there's one that was there i mean

00:45:06   everyone I can't even I was saying I was

00:45:08   walking around with Clinton Morris from

00:45:09   Fox and we were seriously trying to

00:45:11   think of what else could there even

00:45:12   conceivably be you know one's that snap

00:45:14   together there were ones that had is so

00:45:17   awkward to me there's like a frame like

00:45:20   think of a window frame and it connects

00:45:23   in the middle so use pivot it it like

00:45:26   spins around so you can close it back up

00:45:29   with the keyboard and the keyboard is

00:45:31   there underneath it but the screen is

00:45:33   now facing up

00:45:34   you don't understand i mean like imagine

00:45:36   the last hour of yeah I don't think that

00:45:39   one's I forget who made that 1i i want i

00:45:40   think is DOA I mean it's really weird

00:45:43   but anyway

00:45:45   first you have the hands-on then about

00:45:47   an hour in they had the big keynote and

00:45:50   you know and it was kind of again

00:45:52   opposite of Apple where they had nothing

00:45:53   new to announce because that's just the

00:45:56   net and that's not a fault that's just

00:45:58   the nature of being a provider of us

00:46:02   os/2 these partners they had to have

00:46:04   announced everything in advance

00:46:05   otherwise there'd be no one who did it

00:46:07   wouldn't be any hardware available so

00:46:08   they just it was just a way of

00:46:09   reiterating what Windows 8 is all about

00:46:11   and they talked about what it does and

00:46:15   then they started talking about here is

00:46:17   some of the great devices that are here

00:46:19   today and

00:46:19   you know one by one you know started

00:46:21   showing them and showing what's

00:46:22   interesting about this one about that

00:46:24   one and then at the very end they did

00:46:26   they see you know they got two and now

00:46:28   you know finally you know for the first

00:46:30   time we have windows running on arm

00:46:32   systems and here's to great ones and it

00:46:34   was one from asus and one from microsoft

00:46:37   microsoft surface so they didn't even in

00:46:40   that first event didn't even hold the

00:46:41   surface up unlike a slide on screen or

00:46:44   on stage by itself once they did it

00:46:47   alongside that thing from Asus shared

00:46:50   the stage an embalmer came out and and

00:46:53   did his thing and and then that was it

00:46:56   and then we broke for lunch so it was

00:46:59   hands-on first then the keynote then we

00:47:02   broke for lunch and after lunch

00:47:04   it was like a Stoli separate event it

00:47:07   was the same press invitations it wasn't

00:47:08   yet you know i had to have a separate

00:47:10   invitation but they had a second keynote

00:47:11   that was first and i even did it in a

00:47:15   different room that had this whole big

00:47:17   Pere in New York and they even did the

00:47:19   keynote in a different room that was a

00:47:20   little bit smaller and this time it was

00:47:22   mostly Sinofsky and it was all about

00:47:24   surface so that's that almost it sounds

00:47:28   like okay we're putting the kids to bed

00:47:29   and now the parents are going to talk

00:47:31   yeah that's yeah totally exactly yeah we

00:47:34   put the kids event now it's now it's

00:47:36   serious and then we got out of that

00:47:37   keynote then they'd opened up a separate

00:47:39   different hands-on area that had nothing

00:47:41   but surfaces and plenty of them and as

00:47:45   many I mean like they were they had I

00:47:48   think if anything they had more keyboard

00:47:50   covers than surfaces because I guess

00:47:51   they wanted you to be able to try both

00:47:54   uh-huh so they did not i do not have one

00:47:57   they did not get one as I can review

00:47:59   unit but i had spent at least I don't

00:48:01   know in our plan with it so initial

00:48:04   thoughts without spoiling a any anything

00:48:06   going to write about it what would you

00:48:08   actually think of it it's it is not

00:48:15   designed for me sorry really tried to

00:48:17   see I'm trying to keep an open mind

00:48:19   about it though but I you know it's not

00:48:21   bad and and it's good in some of the

00:48:23   ways that Microsoft has always been good

00:48:25   where it's a lot of it does feel very

00:48:28   snappy and that the touch seems really

00:48:31   good

00:48:32   in a way that you know a lot of android

00:48:34   stuff hasn't you know and in terms of

00:48:35   tracking your finger and scrolling

00:48:37   smoothly him but the exactly when in you

00:48:42   know and this is what I thought and and

00:48:43   you know is it my prejudice which would

00:48:47   presupposition you know my bias before I

00:48:50   came in my bias from the last eight

00:48:52   months ever since they announced it is

00:48:54   it just me reinforcing it or is it

00:48:56   really the truth but it really felt like

00:48:58   it as i used it which is this that the

00:49:00   desktop the whole idea of having the

00:49:02   desktop mode there it just sticks out

00:49:04   like a sore thumb and I know that

00:49:07   they're not letting anybody add you

00:49:09   can't have third-party desktop apps

00:49:12   right it's only the ones that are built

00:49:15   in which is explorer ie which to me is

00:49:20   really crazy that there's IE in metro

00:49:23   and I that area and the office suite

00:49:27   then introduced it none of that really

00:49:29   seemed to perform well and it's not even

00:49:31   just about like that the touch targets

00:49:33   are small in office they actually you

00:49:36   know like they've said they've done a

00:49:38   pretty good job you know and i would

00:49:40   have to say that a lot of the touch

00:49:42   targets in office on the surface are at

00:49:45   least as big as the touch targets in for

00:49:48   example I photo for the ipad and iphone

00:49:52   yet which has a lot of little finicky

00:49:54   controls along the bottom but it really

00:49:57   kind of felt like me though it just felt

00:49:59   like when you're in that desktop mode it

00:50:00   kind of felt like when you're at a kiosk

00:50:02   in a museum and they know that they're

00:50:04   just running some piece of craft ice

00:50:06   cream thing you ever see that like I

00:50:08   know there's some airlines a couple of

00:50:09   the airline's like when you check in

00:50:11   with their touch screen like when you do

00:50:12   things you actually see the white

00:50:14   windows arrow cursor appear right right

00:50:17   yep

00:50:17   russ played second before it uh it

00:50:19   actually clicks through yep it you don't

00:50:21   see that when you're using the

00:50:22   touchscreen on the surface but it all it

00:50:24   does kind of feel like that in the

00:50:26   desktop not when you're using the native

00:50:28   Metro apps but it just so walk

00:50:30   why do you think they did because like

00:50:32   this is the most confounding thing to me

00:50:35   like I think i have my own thoughts on

00:50:38   the surface without having played with

00:50:40   that i think it's it's it's strange how

00:50:43   much of the emphasis they're putting on

00:50:44   the keyboard of it's just

00:50:46   you know it's the same thing as a laptop

00:50:47   essentially but i think that the real

00:50:51   problem that Microsoft will have is this

00:50:54   this weird dichotomy between the don't

00:50:57   call it metro metro interface and the

00:50:59   old-school interface and I don't know

00:51:01   why

00:51:02   well i dunno why there's no compromise

00:51:04   right and quote unquote no compromise as

00:51:06   to why they they merge the two together

00:51:08   but how do people not understand because

00:51:11   every review that I've read about it now

00:51:13   is saying the same thing that you're

00:51:14   saying like just the there's two big of

00:51:17   a leap between the two of them so how in

00:51:19   the years leading up to this development

00:51:21   of this and just in the months leading

00:51:23   up to the release of it

00:51:24   how do people inside Microsoft who are

00:51:26   playing with this thing day in and day

00:51:27   out realize that they just shouldn't

00:51:29   release that part of it just like either

00:51:32   bring it on later postponed do something

00:51:35   but like if it's just not up to par why

00:51:38   are they doing that is it is it because

00:51:40   they couldn't get office nailed for

00:51:43   surface for Windows RT in particular I

00:51:46   mean is that it really don't know i

00:51:48   guess so i guess that's the idea i'm the

00:51:50   only thing I can think of is that they

00:51:52   didn't have time to do a true pure metro

00:51:56   i'm just going to keep calling metro

00:51:57   because it's such a convenient during a

00:52:00   Purim metro office thing that's

00:52:02   compatible which is that that

00:52:05   compatibility across you know if

00:52:06   everybody's on the same version of

00:52:08   office than these files will just work

00:52:10   that they couldn't do that and that this

00:52:12   was what they had to do and they didn't

00:52:14   think they could sell a product without

00:52:16   office you know whether it's really

00:52:18   based on actual market research and

00:52:20   people wouldn't buy it or it's just

00:52:21   their internal bias that you know

00:52:24   windows and office forever

00:52:25   I don't know but I do feel like I feel

00:52:29   like as long as you've started with this

00:52:31   at this starting point of we're going to

00:52:34   do two surfaces and Intel one and an arm

00:52:37   one and let's just concede for the sake

00:52:39   of argument right now that that's a good

00:52:41   idea

00:52:42   I don't know everyone will see how it

00:52:43   plans out but let if you start with that

00:52:45   idea though

00:52:46   then why not take the liberty of saying

00:52:50   with the arm one were only going to do

00:52:52   metro even if it doesn't have office to

00:52:54   start because if all right hey we hear

00:52:57   you if office is your thing

00:52:58   bye

00:52:59   this one the pro one yes exactly that's

00:53:02   exactly right and that's so obvious and

00:53:03   how why did they not do that I just it's

00:53:07   very perplexing I don't rightly don't

00:53:09   understand we hear you we know you love

00:53:11   office we are we have all sorts of ideas

00:53:13   for the future of office and we could

00:53:15   not be working harder on it we have

00:53:17   great stuff coming next year and the

00:53:18   year after forearm but right now if if

00:53:21   if office is a deal-breaker for you and

00:53:24   we hear you we know that's why you

00:53:26   didn't buy other competing tablets but

00:53:28   here's the one you want this one and

00:53:29   it's an intel-based system you know and

00:53:32   it'll run officers you know i I just I

00:53:35   don't know it does stick out a little

00:53:37   bit

00:53:38   the other thing i noticed was that the

00:53:40   browser and then again this is something

00:53:43   i had this was my my guests coming in

00:53:46   and it's backed up by using him i used a

00:53:50   lot of the browser and the hands-on area

00:53:52   is it's just it like WebKit has passed

00:53:56   IE it is you know if what are they even

00:54:00   using what are what do they use this

00:54:02   like it's some sort of you know that

00:54:04   they've done with the IE rendering

00:54:06   engine what Apple's done with WebKit is

00:54:08   make a mobile touch version of it and

00:54:11   it's not bad it is

00:54:13   you know you know you can click and

00:54:15   scroll but it's it's just not WebKit it

00:54:20   reminds me of being a Mac user back in

00:54:24   like 1999 2000 2001 when you know there

00:54:28   are all sorts of reasons why stuck with

00:54:29   the mac and i still thought the max

00:54:30   brother better in many ways but web

00:54:33   browsing clearly was not one that you

00:54:35   were at second class citizen on the web

00:54:37   even will wherever your favorite MAC web

00:54:39   browser was you were not getting the

00:54:42   fastest the highest fidelity rendering

00:54:44   and that's what it feels like on surface

00:54:46   like the big 12 me was I wanted to open

00:54:52   something in a new tab so I saw a link

00:54:54   to open an attachment that well what how

00:54:56   do i do that and what's got to be tap

00:54:58   and hold so I tapped him held and then

00:55:00   nothing happened and I thought I don't

00:55:02   know what to do and we just couldn't fit

00:55:05   me in clayton moore so we just couldn't

00:55:06   figure it out and then we asked a guy he

00:55:08   said you just tap and hold we just

00:55:10   weren't holding long

00:55:11   enough and it just was like the amount

00:55:13   of time you have to hold seems too long

00:55:16   and there's a weird i don't know it's

00:55:18   almost like a mode switch I don't know

00:55:20   it's just the feel of it is off it just

00:55:22   like you have to hold your finger there

00:55:23   way too long to get that context menu up

00:55:26   and then once you do it you can open a

00:55:28   new tab and what about a third party

00:55:31   apps were there any on on the one you

00:55:33   played with i'm trying to think I try to

00:55:38   think what counts as third-party they

00:55:40   had the new skype but that's not third

00:55:42   party because that's micros right now

00:55:44   oh yeah they did have some third-party

00:55:45   stuff they had like some media stuff

00:55:47   they had like a new york times app I

00:55:51   yeah they had to contend and I think it

00:55:53   was a lot of media stuff too and this

00:55:54   weird stuff to where they're just not as

00:55:56   polished example so they had pre-loaded

00:55:58   on it was the kindle app yeah they did a

00:56:00   third party apps they had the kindle app

00:56:01   pre-loaded but no books I that's kind of

00:56:07   funny

00:56:08   yeah but you know and that meant that we

00:56:10   can I mean I'm not gonna put my right

00:56:12   I'm not gonna log in with my amazon

00:56:13   credentials on the demo unit on area

00:56:16   right only get a certain number of

00:56:18   devices ya and I'm not gonna lock one up

00:56:20   on this but it just seems like a weird

00:56:21   thing like this funny now and I got sure

00:56:24   the i'm sure the menus on that can

00:56:26   deliver great though they were you could

00:56:28   just you could just tell how much work

00:56:30   was put into those those a those menus

00:56:32   no you couldn't see an actual book and

00:56:34   you know the new york times app looked

00:56:38   good it didn't look it wasn't quite as

00:56:40   good as the the ipad one and it didn't

00:56:44   have custom fonts like the ipad 1 which

00:56:47   really brands that ipad new york times

00:56:50   app is very new york times e because it

00:56:52   shares the same font as the print

00:56:53   edition Ron but it was it was nicer than

00:56:57   reading the near it was you know just

00:56:59   like with the you know what apps should

00:57:01   be it was nicer than reading the New

00:57:03   York Times in a web browser so what did

00:57:06   you think of the keyboards that I I i

00:57:11   just cannot i can't judge the touch one

00:57:14   because it's is I'm just going to say

00:57:15   that i didn't spend enough time but in

00:57:17   the time that i did spend on it my

00:57:18   typing was horrendous

00:57:19   i typed way worse i typed fine on the

00:57:22   on-screen keep so i tried three

00:57:24   keyboards

00:57:25   by the touch cover keyboard the one

00:57:28   that's like magic capacitive hardware

00:57:30   keyboard I tied the actual classic

00:57:33   clicky keyboard cover and add the

00:57:36   on-screen keyboard the on-screen

00:57:37   keyboard was great i would say it was on

00:57:40   par with ipad you know for on screen

00:57:42   typing and in a way that all of the

00:57:45   muscle memory I have from typing on an

00:57:47   iPad carried right over and it was you

00:57:51   know it was good i think windows phone

00:57:53   has a good on-screen keyboard

00:57:55   yeah and when i've used Windows Phone

00:57:57   it's you know it has been very very

00:57:58   friendly to my iphone i visualized

00:58:02   thumbs so that's good i think that's

00:58:04   when the clicky keyboard really nice i

00:58:07   think i think that you did you know

00:58:09   something like that you could sell for

00:58:10   the ipad would be a huge hit it is seems

00:58:14   like a very nice compromise between

00:58:16   making it thick enough that the keys can

00:58:18   actually move a little and keeping it

00:58:20   thin enough that it's not making your

00:58:22   tablet you know as thick as a notebook

00:58:23   is it uh have you have used the logitech

00:58:27   14 logic than one for the ipad yes I in

00:58:30   fact i did at I know you're a huge fan

00:58:32   of that I got to use it at singleton and

00:58:34   I'm drawing a blank on who the kind of

00:58:37   is a well who r idea is a regular

00:58:39   listener the talk show and I'm drawing a

00:58:41   blank on your name but thank you for

00:58:42   letting me try it and yeah it's nice its

00:58:44   equivalent to that but it's a slicker

00:58:46   it's a slicker integration with the way

00:58:48   that you know that the microsoft one is

00:58:50   magnetizes and you don't know you go

00:58:52   through bluetooth pairing or anything

00:58:53   like that

00:58:54   ok that it's nice and what about the the

00:58:56   thing at the but like it has the touch

00:58:57   element at the bottom-right the trackpad

00:58:59   stuff

00:59:00   yeah when you have it on you get a mouse

00:59:02   cursor on screen mouse cursor just

00:59:04   appears on screen when it's connected

00:59:05   and and you know you have a trackpad I

00:59:08   thought the one on the the clicky

00:59:10   keyboard cover worked better than the

00:59:11   one on the touch one I thought the touch

00:59:13   when it was I thought I don't know to me

00:59:15   it's a funny demo but it really doesn't

00:59:17   seem like a good product

00:59:19   I just wasn't good for typing for me but

00:59:21   maybe if you're used to it you maybe if

00:59:23   you give it a long time you get used to

00:59:25   it but am i right in thinking that you

00:59:27   still can't rest your hands on the keys

00:59:29   your fingers on the keys with the touch

00:59:31   one itsy

00:59:34   I ran into some problems with that it's

00:59:36   it's definitely not that you can't you

00:59:38   know you can do it and sometimes it just

00:59:41   sometimes it would register touches and

00:59:42   sometimes it wouldn't and I think you're

00:59:45   supposed to be able to rest your fingers

00:59:46   on it but I was definitely running into

00:59:49   problems and I was absolutely missing

00:59:51   like the big problem I was having it's

00:59:52   just missing letters and the other thing

00:59:55   too

00:59:56   here's the big thing for me is that

00:59:56   here's the big thing for me is that

01:00:00   typing on the keyboard one is exactly

01:00:02   what you think you're just typing on it

01:00:03   you know a relatively small but like

01:00:06   ipad style clicky keyboard and i did

01:00:08   just fine

01:00:10   typing on the actual screen just like

01:00:13   with iOS and like Windows Phone it does

01:00:16   a lot of auto correction work as your

01:00:18   type in and it's always trying to make

01:00:21   suggestions and it's using a dictionary

01:00:23   and it's doing a really smart job and

01:00:25   there's an animation when it does when

01:00:27   it in you know sees that i spelled you

01:00:31   know sigler sigl ER it knows that you're

01:00:35   in my contact dictionary and takes a

01:00:37   guess that i wanted i wanted to put an

01:00:39   extra in there to get your name right

01:00:40   and you see a little animation nice nice

01:00:42   the thing that i found was using the

01:00:44   touch keyboard the touch cover keyboard

01:00:47   it treats it like a hardware keyboard

01:00:51   where it's not in that aggressive auto

01:00:53   correct mode and I really needed it to

01:00:55   be like I was you know i would type the

01:00:57   new year

01:00:58   I wouldn't be teenagers I would just get

01:01:00   th and the e wasn't even there

01:01:02   ah that's an interesting point because

01:01:05   that seems like it makes some sense

01:01:08   because the touch keyboard is

01:01:10   essentially a soft keyboard like you

01:01:14   would find on a screen but they've made

01:01:16   it of an actual tangible product and

01:01:20   it's right in between a fit the actual

01:01:22   physical keyboard and the the soft yeah

01:01:25   we're on screen right so you think they

01:01:27   just obviously decided to go with it

01:01:28   being more like the the nice actual

01:01:31   keyboard rather than the on-screen one

01:01:33   but they should have probably done it

01:01:34   more like the on-screen with software

01:01:36   exactly that is a perfect encapsulation

01:01:38   when I was trying to say and maybe they

01:01:40   can fix that and software maybe it you

01:01:41   know they can just sort of switch to

01:01:43   that mode and get into that and there is

01:01:45   a clear advantage to that if they could

01:01:47   get it to work out which is that when

01:01:49   you're using an on-screen keyboard on a

01:01:51   tablet half the screen is covered by the

01:01:53   keyboard whereas you for using the

01:01:55   softcover you know you have the whole

01:01:56   screen available

01:01:57   you got it really needs that I think it

01:02:00   needs to be treated software-wise like a

01:02:01   software keyboard where we're going to

01:02:03   guess that you're going to make a lot of

01:02:04   mistakes and you know even the logitech

01:02:07   one with ios6 now they do the the

01:02:10   autocorrection element in this

01:02:13   42 even with physical keyboard and its

01:02:15   really nice I mean you know you're not

01:02:16   gonna make it nearly as many typing

01:02:18   mistakes

01:02:18   yeah using the physical keyboard but

01:02:20   they still do the software on aspect

01:02:22   yeah I'm actually not sure why they

01:02:23   don't why they do turn that off for the

01:02:25   keyboard i guess the ideas i don't know

01:02:28   i guess that if you're annoyed you know

01:02:29   if you really are typing something you

01:02:31   want to be precise that autocorrect is

01:02:33   I'm gonna work you know if you're typing

01:02:34   code or something like that

01:02:35   I'm I don't know existed but it didn't

01:02:39   it didn't it i don't know i wouldn't go

01:02:41   after Justin a half an hour if I were

01:02:43   going to buy 1i would get the clicky

01:02:45   keyboard and that's and it's expensive

01:02:49   right it's like a hundred and sometimes

01:02:51   yeah but it's not that much more

01:02:52   expensive than the touch one the touch

01:02:53   one day expensive you know and it just

01:02:56   seems like another case of Microsoft not

01:02:58   making a decision for you but letting

01:03:00   you make the decision to close to

01:03:02   telling you what's best

01:03:03   all right letting you figure out what's

01:03:05   best and Iran date have with the with

01:03:07   the pricing right the cheapest one does

01:03:09   not come with a keyboard at all but then

01:03:10   i have bundles that start coming with

01:03:12   them right right but it's the touch one

01:03:14   I believe

01:03:15   yeah i think so i think they're they

01:03:17   seem to be kind of pushing the touch one

01:03:19   and i kind of i am in my experience

01:03:22   tinkering around with an hour i think

01:03:23   they're going the wrong way on that I

01:03:25   feel like if you want to keyboard and

01:03:26   you're going to buy an expensive cover

01:03:29   that you know relatively expensive cover

01:03:30   that combines the cover with the

01:03:33   keyboard

01:03:34   I don't know I feel like if you're that

01:03:36   into typing you want that clicky

01:03:37   one-armed I never let her definitely

01:03:41   makes a better first impression because

01:03:43   anybody goes into one of these microsoft

01:03:44   stores to buy one is not if you're going

01:03:46   to spend last time with it than I did

01:03:47   and it is you know if I didn't do that

01:03:50   well on the touch cover typing I don't

01:03:53   see how a typical consumer would compare

01:03:55   to the clicky 1i have heard good things

01:03:58   about the kickstand itself and how much

01:04:02   you played with that yeah it's just it

01:04:04   seems good it's there the old one and

01:04:05   only hit and I and it was funny because

01:04:07   I thought it and I just other people

01:04:10   coming out it just seemed like everybody

01:04:11   was saying the same thing was that and

01:04:14   it seems like one of those things that

01:04:15   the strikes through the first five

01:04:16   minutes to use it and maybe once you

01:04:18   know then you get used to it it's not a

01:04:19   problem but there's only a little little

01:04:21   tick mark for your like fingernail to go

01:04:24   into separate it it's only on the one

01:04:26   side

01:04:26   it ok so if you go to the 1i think it's

01:04:29   you know if you're facing the screen

01:04:30   it's on the right i think behind it and

01:04:33   it's really easy just kind of stick your

01:04:34   thumb nail in there and give it a little

01:04:36   little flick and it just pops right out

01:04:37   and if you go to the other side it's

01:04:39   like you can't get it open but I think

01:04:41   once you realize that you go to this

01:04:43   side to do it would and you know it is

01:04:45   it absolutely does feel very

01:04:47   well-crafted and it feels like something

01:04:49   that is built to last that if he buy one

01:04:51   and use it all the time eight months

01:04:53   from now the kickstand is still gonna

01:04:54   click open and click shut and stay shut

01:04:57   its yeah it does seem that you know

01:04:58   seems good

01:04:59   what about the hardware itself that i've

01:05:02   heard mixed reviews of people who played

01:05:04   with that of this like they say the the

01:05:06   quality of the build is nice but it's

01:05:08   too bulky is that is that fair do you

01:05:10   think it's hard to say because I was

01:05:13   already three days into using my ipad

01:05:15   mini trip right what did feel exact

01:05:18   opposite of writing felt a little heavy

01:05:20   but it felt roughly ipad shaped I i

01:05:24   guess the other thing that really struck

01:05:25   me i had built quality was good and you

01:05:27   know Intendant maybe not quite well i

01:05:31   would say definitely not quite Apple

01:05:32   quality it doesn't seem like that

01:05:35   magnesium whatever they call it it does

01:05:38   take that actually i think it's called

01:05:39   yeah they ripped you off edge I

01:05:41   definitely send you one they ripped off

01:05:43   in here i'm marco wrote this when his

01:05:46   store impressions is it feels like super

01:05:48   nice plastic it is technically a metal

01:05:51   but it feels like really good plastic

01:05:52   and that's not even necessarily bad i

01:05:54   love the polycarbonate plastic whatever

01:05:58   they call it that Nokia is using on the

01:05:59   Lumias it's really really high quality

01:06:01   stuff i wouldn't be surprised if someday

01:06:03   Apple you know put out a thing that uses

01:06:06   something that is technically a plastic

01:06:08   and plastic doesn't necessarily mean

01:06:09   junkie right but it's you know it's just

01:06:13   not maybe not quite as nice

01:06:16   Marco also had the comment and i agree

01:06:18   with that were by putting all these

01:06:19   extra ports on it it it jumps up the

01:06:23   feel of it it makes it right it has a

01:06:25   u.s. USB poor SD cards if yeah I think

01:06:28   it does

01:06:29   yeah yeah yeah you know Apple obviously

01:06:32   they actually made a point with this

01:06:34   with this this latest revision to the to

01:06:36   the regular ipad right that they now

01:06:38   have even more peripherals to be able to

01:06:40   they actually gave me a few of them to

01:06:43   debt to test out like an SD card reader

01:06:46   the Lightning to SD card reader

01:06:47   lightning to USB you know that's that's

01:06:50   a little bit of the of annoyance if

01:06:52   you're going to use I guess an SD card

01:06:55   reader USB all the time but how often

01:06:57   are you

01:06:57   I mean I never use any of that stuff

01:06:59   with the ipad so I don't know it just

01:07:03   seems like a little but it's you know

01:07:04   that's what maybe that's what appeals to

01:07:06   the people who don't want to buy an ipad

01:07:08   those they want to ensure even if they

01:07:10   aren't going to end up using it they

01:07:11   wanted their other thing that really

01:07:13   struck me is it always strikes me when I

01:07:16   use a 69 tablet is that it seems like it

01:07:20   only ever wants to be used in landscape

01:07:23   holding it in portrait just seems so

01:07:25   yeah it looks weird it looks with from

01:07:29   the the pictures I've seen it looks like

01:07:31   it's it's like almost top-heavy that

01:07:34   you're going you know you need to you're

01:07:35   like it getting ready to ride on a

01:07:37   surfboard and it just looks like a

01:07:39   really weird format to read something

01:07:40   like a magazine or a book where I always

01:07:43   hold it on my iPad hold it in portrait

01:07:45   and it just seems like you're so off

01:07:46   from the proportions of a regular piece

01:07:48   of paper or book that it just seems way

01:07:51   too skinny and you know look at the way

01:07:54   you know that's got this built-in

01:07:55   kickstand that only works in one right

01:07:58   right

01:07:59   it just seems like it wants to be held

01:08:01   that way as opposed to the ipad sort of

01:08:04   i don't even care if you hold it upside

01:08:05   down sort of at ambivalence towards how

01:08:09   you hold it

01:08:10   that was the other thing that's that

01:08:12   struck me about the surface

01:08:14   I know you got to assume but i do i'm

01:08:19   going to have one more thing I want to

01:08:20   talk about forestall stuff but before I

01:08:21   sure let me do my the second sponsor and

01:08:24   super excited that to have this app on

01:08:26   board it's check the weather check the

01:08:31   weather app for your iphone yet I don't

01:08:33   know

01:08:34   oh man this is I i recommend i recommend

01:08:37   this weather at blonde before it became

01:08:40   a sponsor the show as soon as I saw it I

01:08:42   fell in love with it the guy behind

01:08:45   David Smith

01:08:47   as a longtime listener and fan of the

01:08:49   talk show and the way he he describes

01:08:53   the apt to me is just perfect he's he's

01:08:55   got five points he wants to make clear

01:08:57   accurate fast beautiful layered and it's

01:09:02   all of those things you look at it and I

01:09:04   gotta snap you know what's going on

01:09:07   where you are you have detailed hourly

01:09:10   forecast information for what's going to

01:09:12   want go on the rest of the day and you

01:09:14   have a nice little overview of what's

01:09:17   going to go on in the next few days and

01:09:20   the other thing that he wanted to solve

01:09:23   by making this app is to stop having to

01:09:28   check more than one app just to sort of

01:09:30   get the gist of what you want to know

01:09:32   about the weather and the big one with

01:09:33   that is dark sky which is the app that

01:09:36   lets you see a is it going to rain the

01:09:38   next hour or so and so how much how

01:09:41   strong and what you know what's the the

01:09:44   precipitation radar map look like

01:09:47   so here's the best news about that the

01:09:50   guys at dark sky in addition to making a

01:09:53   very good app they have an API that

01:09:56   other apps can subscribe to and that's

01:09:58   what check the weather uses so you open

01:10:00   the app you've got what's going on if

01:10:02   you want to do a sort of dark sky Taipei

01:10:05   is it gonna rain soon and what's the

01:10:06   what's the radar look like you just

01:10:09   swipe up from the bottom and you've got

01:10:12   a detailed precipitation forecast

01:10:14   near-term precipitation forecasts and

01:10:17   you've got a beautiful weather map which

01:10:22   i happen to like a lot better than the

01:10:24   dark sky maps because the colors in the

01:10:26   dark sky map I can't tell the difference

01:10:28   between water and precipitation in the

01:10:31   air it's just beautiful one of the other

01:10:36   things it's beautiful out this app and

01:10:38   love the typography really really

01:10:40   opinionated strong bold typography using

01:10:42   a great font idlewild from from our

01:10:46   friends at half learn for Jones if it's

01:10:49   not to your liking the version 1.1 added

01:10:51   options to use future or helvetica they

01:10:54   look great too

01:10:55   and even better version 1.2 coming soon

01:11:00   submitted not yet available in the App

01:11:03   Store as i speak but i've been using the

01:11:07   beta and it's just great is a universal

01:11:10   app for the iphone and the ipad this is

01:11:13   my favorite weather app I used it all

01:11:16   last week during the whole hurricane

01:11:18   sandy thing I was opening this app I

01:11:20   don't know every 20-30 minutes and it

01:11:22   was just great i get it in the app store

01:11:25   you can check out get more information

01:11:27   at check the weather dot co that's dot

01:11:31   co not comm check the weather dot co /

01:11:35   the talk show

01:11:37   let's check the weather dot co / the

01:11:40   talk show or just search the appstore

01:11:42   for check the weather by this app and

01:11:45   support the talk show and support great

01:11:47   great individual and independent app

01:11:49   developers so again check the weather

01:11:52   dot co / the talk show and again putting

01:11:56   the done they're just shows you that

01:11:57   this is this is that a developer who

01:11:59   knows the show knows that I paid for

01:12:02   that doesn't want it used to check them

01:12:04   out and thank them very much I thank

01:12:05   them very much by this app and help

01:12:07   support the talkshow best way you can

01:12:08   support the talk show by this app so

01:12:13   forestall and then we'll get we'll get

01:12:15   out here right so this is this is big

01:12:19   bombshell were you surprised i will say

01:12:22   that i was not armed

01:12:25   I was surprised at the timing of it but

01:12:27   I was not surprised overall just

01:12:29   everything that I've heard in the past

01:12:31   year or so has been that things were

01:12:35   eventually going to come to this horse

01:12:38   or the other way right that there needed

01:12:40   to be some kind of resolution of sort of

01:12:43   the internal conflicts within the within

01:12:45   the company and I don't know if you read

01:12:47   the thing today i think it was i did da

01:12:49   all things D talking about more of the

01:12:52   information of why mansfield went from

01:12:55   retiring to not retiring now i'm back

01:12:57   for two years

01:12:58   No supposedly they are according to

01:13:00   their sources and I haven't heard this

01:13:02   directly but that mansfield had an

01:13:06   actual real beef with forestall as well

01:13:08   and he wasn't going to

01:13:09   se me or him but that the fact that

01:13:11   forestall is now out led to him directly

01:13:14   coming back in full force

01:13:17   huh yeah the way I've put it to people

01:13:20   is I was surprised but not shocked you

01:13:25   know and you know and and somebody on

01:13:28   Twitter and pointed this out and I do

01:13:29   think it's I think it may be really be

01:13:31   very it sounds a little glib but i think

01:13:34   it actually might be kind of insightful

01:13:36   is that this might be the first major

01:13:38   situation with Apple wear this wouldn't

01:13:42   have happened if Steve Jobs was still

01:13:44   around

01:13:45   yeah right i mean they had the same they

01:13:48   had the same design aesthetic taste

01:13:49   right

01:13:50   and obviously this was this guy from

01:13:52   next they've been together for a long

01:13:54   time and yeah that I never didn't get

01:13:59   along with the other executives it was

01:14:01   ok under steve because that's the sort

01:14:04   of thing that Steve had a true genius

01:14:07   for a gift

01:14:09   was I making it just putting it all

01:14:13   together bring you know you're all that

01:14:15   matters is that you guys are all

01:14:16   talented and very very smart and I will

01:14:19   make this work I my personality you know

01:14:22   this is the perfect of students here are

01:14:24   his personality i should say is so

01:14:26   strong was so strong that it could patch

01:14:29   over any personality clashes from the P

01:14:32   anybody under him because his own his

01:14:35   personality was just so dominant and

01:14:37   yeah out that there's there's just you

01:14:41   know and i don't think it's an

01:14:42   indictment of tim cook i think it right

01:14:45   an acknowledgement again speaks to jobs

01:14:47   in right that may be the worst thing

01:14:49   would have been for you know again for

01:14:51   Tim Cook's used to sort of credit be

01:14:53   Steve Jobs and and try to think that he

01:14:55   can do that same thing

01:14:57   yeah and someone someone had a great

01:14:59   comment this morning i think it was on

01:15:01   there i started my tumblr feed actually

01:15:03   but it was um it was going back in

01:15:05   referencing what cook said at the

01:15:07   memorial for jobs which was of course

01:15:09   the line that you know don't don't think

01:15:13   about don't worry about what i would do

01:15:14   just do what's right and you know this

01:15:17   is like the first time where cook is

01:15:19   doing something that jobs would probably

01:15:22   not have

01:15:22   on but it is the right thing to do for

01:15:24   apple in the current state of apple

01:15:26   right maybe a better way to put it isn't

01:15:28   it Steve Jobs wouldn't have done it but

01:15:29   that he wouldn't have had to do it

01:15:31   yes yes that is that's exactly right i

01:15:33   think i mean because the thing is this

01:15:35   is I mean the things that are kind of

01:15:37   doesn't even seem to be any any argument

01:15:42   over is that forestall was one of the

01:15:45   words divisive and that he was ambitious

01:15:49   and yet that he guarded his I don't want

01:15:55   to be pejorative here because I honestly

01:15:56   don't have the beef with the guy I was

01:15:58   going to say fiefdom but I fiefdom seems

01:16:01   to imply i don't want to impugn any sort

01:16:04   of negative political aspirations on him

01:16:07   but he did I mean he had iOS was his

01:16:09   fiefdom and he ruled over it and to his

01:16:14   credit you know a lot of I think there's

01:16:16   been a lot of yet kind of negativity

01:16:18   around him and certainly it seems like

01:16:20   something that was justified but there's

01:16:23   you know I mean he is the guy who made

01:16:25   iOS what it is now and there's no

01:16:27   disputing that that's an incredible feat

01:16:30   and maybe he couldn't have done that

01:16:32   without being so passionate about the

01:16:33   way that he you know viewed that iOS had

01:16:36   to go and jobs of course you know had

01:16:39   the had the ultimate say in the matter

01:16:40   but it was a you know by all accounts it

01:16:43   was forced all remember when they were

01:16:44   thinking about how to do the you know

01:16:46   the stories that year now and everything

01:16:47   about how to do the iphone they're

01:16:48   considering using you know just some

01:16:50   random kind of generic ipod like OS that

01:16:54   wasn't at all related to that was the

01:16:56   only cemented Tony Fadell side of it and

01:16:58   that takes that effectively that sealed

01:17:03   his fate for ya forestall and and my

01:17:05   understanding of the choices for stolen

01:17:07   and Bertrand sir lay on on on that side

01:17:10   on the we should we can do this we can

01:17:12   use OS 10 we can take the next step

01:17:15   stuff and make days might you know take

01:17:18   strip it down and we can use this in a

01:17:20   phone and it's going to be great and if

01:17:23   we get it we're going to have this great

01:17:24   app development framework already there

01:17:27   ready to go and it was Fidel and and I

01:17:31   think maybe Rubenstein on the other side

01:17:33   saying yeah she doesn't like a

01:17:35   you know like an iphone effective it

01:17:37   would be like the OS that they have in

01:17:38   the ipod nano right right and you know

01:17:44   so i definitely like you said that

01:17:45   sealed Fidel's fate that you know that

01:17:47   that he won and you know look at where

01:17:48   Apple is from there I mean and you know

01:17:50   who know I mean I you know who knows how

01:17:52   many other people in that argument I

01:17:53   mean to be a great story to hear some

01:17:54   day from the insiders really would be

01:17:56   maybe the greatest story of the last 15

01:17:59   years of Apple to hear because you know

01:18:01   apple before the iphone was doing just

01:18:04   fine but they were not a sensation and

01:18:06   apple after the iphone has become the

01:18:08   biggest corporations in the world and

01:18:10   write it really did seem to come down to

01:18:12   a very very tough decision on Steve Jobs

01:18:16   part you know and that forestall was if

01:18:19   not the leading proponent one of only

01:18:21   two on that side of the you know it of

01:18:25   the argument and like you said the end

01:18:28   of five years since I OS has been great

01:18:31   it really has you nobody can take that

01:18:33   away from him I mean and you know so now

01:18:36   you think about going forward on what

01:18:38   this means exactly and it's impossible

01:18:41   to know that right now but i think that

01:18:43   it i think that some of the criticism of

01:18:46   iOS has been fair that they're it's been

01:18:51   so much polish and polish and polish and

01:18:54   they haven't really taken any risks with

01:18:56   the with the operating system in the

01:18:58   past few years and i think at first

01:18:59   that's absolutely understandable and I

01:19:01   think that's helped them in many ways

01:19:03   because it is so polished now but how

01:19:06   much more can you polish and how much

01:19:07   more can you change ios6 you know there

01:19:10   were differences of course with with iOS

01:19:12   5 but mainly seems like polish Polish

01:19:15   polish and so now does this change that

01:19:18   do we get something that's that's going

01:19:20   to be the most significant departure

01:19:23   since kind of the beginning of it

01:19:25   yeah i think the big question mark in

01:19:27   this as it goes forward I don't think

01:19:29   anybody really has a problem with Johnny

01:19:31   I've taking over software thi

01:19:34   across-the-board I think that's super

01:19:36   exciting

01:19:37   I i really do think that's going to work

01:19:40   out well for Apple but you don't know

01:19:41   though because he hasn't done it before

01:19:43   you don't know i think the ? that was

01:19:45   federighi is yeah you know in charge now

01:19:48   and everybody you know seems to think I

01:19:51   think mountain lion turned out really

01:19:52   well so I know and I think everybody

01:19:55   inside the company i think is regarded

01:19:57   as having successfully led that project

01:19:59   now and he's I mean he's just ascended

01:20:02   so quickly right he was he was just

01:20:05   elevated to SVP in that last in that

01:20:07   last round and now all of a sudden

01:20:09   well is he gonna be able to his mac OS

01:20:11   10 going to keep going forward at this

01:20:12   enjoyable pace that it's been going at

01:20:14   while he's also got OS to be responsible

01:20:18   for because clearly you know if one's

01:20:20   gonna have to slip it's still going to

01:20:21   be Mac os10 of course I mean is he going

01:20:24   to do what you just said which is sort

01:20:26   of not just keep polishing iOS but is he

01:20:29   gonna be able to make take iOS and give

01:20:31   it a oh wow look with that you know sort

01:20:35   of right and moving the entire the idea

01:20:39   of what mobile OS four is forward also

01:20:42   you know last year obviously all of us

01:20:46   were surprised with OS 10 mountain lion

01:20:48   because we just didn't expect it so soon

01:20:49   and an apple legitimately surprised

01:20:52   everyone with it

01:20:53   are they still are they going to do that

01:20:54   again how far into development does this

01:20:56   is the iOS coming under federal change

01:20:58   that and you know one question i kept

01:21:01   getting was what does that mean for ios7

01:21:05   you have to assume that it was already

01:21:06   well into development right

01:21:09   does this change knock that out i can't

01:21:13   imagine that they won't do something at

01:21:15   WWDC still this year right they go I

01:21:17   think either got to yeah the guys who

01:21:19   write well one thing and you know and

01:21:21   and i'm sure people who are really

01:21:23   deeply inside maybe I'm way off the base

01:21:26   here but my understanding is that away a

01:21:27   lot of this stuff works is that

01:21:29   everybody you know is on teams and teams

01:21:31   are all relatively small and have a

01:21:33   relatively direct and clear chain of

01:21:35   command you know that the team reports

01:21:37   to somebody a manager and the manager

01:21:39   probably reported directly to forestall

01:21:41   if you're working on something related

01:21:44   to iOS and you know if your team has

01:21:46   something that's ready to ship or looks

01:21:48   like it's ready to ship there's like a

01:21:50   list of here's the stuff we might now

01:21:52   with here's what we've got to start

01:21:53   tying the line for what's going to be

01:21:54   iOS 7 and there's this team and that

01:21:57   team in that too

01:21:58   and you know so I don't know that it's

01:22:00   you know it may not really be a setback

01:22:02   for you know if you're still being gone

01:22:04   because it's these teams that are doing

01:22:06   stuff and now it's somebody else is

01:22:07   going to be making these decisions about

01:22:09   this is ready for this should be ready

01:22:11   let's let's green light that this for

01:22:13   next year you know but here's what

01:22:14   you've got to do by here's what i want

01:22:17   to see by next week you know in terms of

01:22:19   getting this to to where we can actually

01:22:21   ship it all right you know i don't think

01:22:25   you should think of it as a entire you

01:22:27   know that the entire iOS is just like a

01:22:29   single product or write that has to be

01:22:32   and had a team of a hundred people

01:22:34   working on it it's more like it's 20 30

01:22:37   different little things that each have a

01:22:39   team of three or four people working on

01:22:40   it all right you know the biggest

01:22:45   question I think that both of us have

01:22:47   gotten is that is the question of our

01:22:49   that is this the end of the green felt

01:22:51   are they can cure if the a skeuomorphism

01:22:54   stuff uh I think I have no idea it seems

01:22:59   like there was that report of Johnny I

01:23:02   being against it

01:23:03   well force always for it only seemed

01:23:06   back I I don't think I mean diseases i

01:23:10   think what we will see is a minor course

01:23:13   correction with regard to skeuomorphism

01:23:15   I think that it's a ship that's it

01:23:19   slightly off course and a little bit

01:23:21   bent a little bit toward the tacky as

01:23:24   opposed to the cool i do not expect to

01:23:28   see a radical 180-degree reverse in that

01:23:32   I don't think that they're going to drop

01:23:34   all textures I don't think they're going

01:23:36   to drop everything I'm you know I think

01:23:37   game center is an example of one where

01:23:39   the skeuomorphism is fine

01:23:41   I i actually think that you know making

01:23:43   it look like a game is is actually

01:23:45   pretty good or pretty apt I think it's

01:23:48   like ical words you know it really get

01:23:51   end is in addition to the fact that it

01:23:53   just it it just gets in the way it's not

01:23:55   just that it's ugly but that it makes it

01:23:57   look like you can do things you can't do

01:23:59   because it looks like a pad of paper but

01:24:00   you can't treat it like a pad of paper a

01:24:03   little arrow button to go to the next

01:24:04   month you know it doesn't seem like it's

01:24:06   genuine and to me that's where I think

01:24:08   Ivy's

01:24:10   you know I can't speak for him obviously

01:24:11   but everything he's ever said those

01:24:13   about keeping things true and genuine to

01:24:16   themselves and that's where things go

01:24:18   wrong like I calton and address book or

01:24:20   contacts whatever the entity called

01:24:21   contacts now that's right those are apps

01:24:24   with me the skeuomorphism is wrong not

01:24:26   because of weather it looks good or not

01:24:28   because it just seems to make the apps

01:24:29   harder to use yeah

01:24:31   yep and the one that people keep coming

01:24:33   to now recently as the shredder via of

01:24:37   the passbook thing right

01:24:38   like people just seem to hate that with

01:24:40   the past don't know why don't you see I

01:24:41   longer to delete i guesses the gas and i

01:24:44   don't know but i don't know if i would

01:24:45   expect things like that to go away you

01:24:48   know and for example the podcast app

01:24:50   with the reel-to-reel making a rent a

01:24:52   skewer morphic reel-to-reel thing isn't

01:24:55   necessarily in and of itself a bad idea

01:24:56   as long as usability why's it provides

01:24:59   you a very effective direct way of

01:25:01   skipping around the timeline of the

01:25:03   podcast if it doesn't you know too bad

01:25:05   it's bad it's the you it's how it works

01:25:08   that matters and if if it works really

01:25:11   well but looks skeuomorphic to some

01:25:14   degree that's still good

01:25:15   I would not expect a radical revision if

01:25:18   you think that iOS 7 is going to come

01:25:20   out looking like like all glass or

01:25:22   something yeah you know some kind of you

01:25:24   know just like windows 8 but with round

01:25:27   Rex instead of shopping cart cornerbacks

01:25:30   you're not it's you know I don't think

01:25:33   anything radical is going to change arm

01:25:36   and you know one thing you and I talked

01:25:38   about briefly after the the events last

01:25:40   week was the timing elements of this and

01:25:44   how this all plays and obviously we

01:25:45   didn't know about the the huge shake up

01:25:47   from the exact time level at that at

01:25:50   that point but it's sort of it makes it

01:25:52   more interesting right because now Apple

01:25:54   has fully aligned itself with all of its

01:25:56   products to be in this this kind of fall

01:25:59   q1 quarter that they're going to be

01:26:01   shipping all the stuff so do they now

01:26:03   take off six takeoff quote-unquote six

01:26:06   months of releases and not do anything

01:26:08   not even say anything again until WWDC

01:26:11   because we have this new ipad now the

01:26:13   fortune it seems like they're not going

01:26:15   to do something it seems likely they

01:26:16   won't do something in march now which

01:26:18   they typically do for the ipad

01:26:20   and you know it seems like TV where

01:26:22   wherever that so stowaways off so you

01:26:26   know maybe they do something with OS 10

01:26:28   like they did last year in between but

01:26:29   maybe they don't and maybe maybe that's

01:26:31   good for the timing of all this exact

01:26:33   shake-up stuff right because now all the

01:26:36   they have some time to make sure that

01:26:38   everything is a line from the top down

01:26:39   and they keep working on what they've

01:26:41   been working out of course but you know

01:26:43   they have time just not suit so have to

01:26:45   rush to get anything done

01:26:47   I agree with everything you just said

01:26:48   what I feel like this is in hindsight a

01:26:52   remarkably perfect time for cook to

01:26:55   execute this move because like it was

01:26:58   said it's all the stuff is lined up now

01:27:01   for this holiday quarter which is still

01:27:02   disproportionately apples most important

01:27:05   quarter right and you know if these guys

01:27:08   have new responsibilities and it might

01:27:10   take a lot of shake out they've got the

01:27:12   time now to do it and I almost felt like

01:27:14   it read like that in cooks statement

01:27:17   about it or he's just said like what

01:27:19   this has been a tremendous you know run

01:27:20   for Apple we've just released the ipod

01:27:23   ipad mini 4 generation I ipad i met you

01:27:27   know new retina macbook new ipods iphone

01:27:31   5s cetera and so he just like kind of

01:27:33   like we've done a lot in the past few

01:27:37   months and so you know now it's time to

01:27:40   kind of re-evaluate what what we've done

01:27:43   where we're going and we think that

01:27:45   these changes will help streamline our

01:27:48   process going forward

01:27:50   now i really do mean and and and talking

01:27:53   to people last week that the euphemistic

01:27:56   though it was the headliner that PR

01:27:57   really was what it was all about this

01:27:59   nikki is about increasing collaboration

01:28:00   and that's really what the problem was

01:28:04   deemed to be with forestall was that

01:28:05   forestall did his stuff and wasn't

01:28:08   collaborating with the right like I

01:28:09   didn't hearing about mansfield but now

01:28:11   you're saying you know I believe it

01:28:12   though and that he wasn't what I heard I

01:28:14   heard that like for example that four

01:28:17   stalls team you know the iOS team kept

01:28:20   Schiller's product marketing division in

01:28:23   the dark about everything until the last

01:28:25   possible minute and that there's just no

01:28:28   no back and forth between Schiller's

01:28:30   product marketing division

01:28:32   and four stalls iOS division and that

01:28:35   those two guys just did not get along

01:28:37   I mean and it wasn't just like one or

01:28:39   two incidents it was like institutional

01:28:42   intransigence that the no.4 sales team

01:28:45   just wasn't collaborating with product

01:28:47   marketing

01:28:47   I mean that you know collaboration is

01:28:49   the word and it just wasn't there and

01:28:52   you know the the other element that we

01:28:54   haven't even hit on yet is of course the

01:28:55   the map situation and to a lesser extent

01:28:59   sirree but you know there's been issues

01:29:00   with both and both were under forestall

01:29:03   and now interestingly enough both aren't

01:29:05   transferring under federal either going

01:29:07   to any Q so they're gonna be in the you

01:29:11   know more along the lines of the

01:29:12   services and content division and that

01:29:15   seems like the right move to make

01:29:16   but you know I think that the fact that

01:29:18   Apple highlighted that also in the

01:29:20   release says what you needed to know and

01:29:21   what of course was then reported

01:29:23   afterwards that you know of course for

01:29:26   starters any RQ is like The Fixer is

01:29:29   they're always like the guy who takes

01:29:30   like all right this here's this thing

01:29:32   that's garbage

01:29:33   Eddie get your boots on great because it

01:29:38   and people are gave me some stuff some

01:29:40   you know like commodities in charge of

01:29:42   iCloud I clouds are decorated like I

01:29:44   clouds actually pretty good

01:29:46   and remember it really is names change

01:29:48   but it really is the evolution of

01:29:50   mobileme I mean he's already been using

01:29:52   you know good

01:29:53   yeah and he wasn't in charge you know

01:29:55   that the mobileme that was the

01:29:56   disastrous initial like 2008 mobileme

01:29:59   and nothing to do it he was just running

01:30:00   the itunes store he was given something

01:30:02   that was like a probably the most famous

01:30:05   disaster in the apples recent decade you

01:30:09   know it

01:30:10   Steve Jobs tie right in front of the

01:30:11   entire company about it being you know

01:30:13   this is embarrassing you know here at eq

01:30:16   go fix it and he did is you know it's

01:30:18   it's really you know it's gone from this

01:30:21   hundred-dollar you're paid thing that

01:30:23   nobody liked to a free thing with

01:30:24   millions but maybe a hundred million

01:30:27   users that's that's working pretty well

01:30:29   so yeah yeah he's really become a fix-it

01:30:32   man

01:30:33   hairy man yeah take naps please and

01:30:37   figure out what to do with that but uh

01:30:38   there was there was actually good story

01:30:40   about him too i think was yesterday and

01:30:42   seen that I think it's greg sandoval

01:30:43   wrote about

01:30:45   and accuse relationship now I mean Q

01:30:47   also is the one now it seems like doing

01:30:49   these uh doing the Steve Jobs types

01:30:51   meetings with the the content exact

01:30:53   right and just is going to all these

01:30:55   things and in playing hardball it seems

01:30:58   like by all know I do think that's all I

01:31:00   do think that is I think he was very

01:31:02   much involved with alongside Steve Jobs

01:31:04   but that right you know without Steve

01:31:06   that it's down to Eddie and he's still

01:31:08   doing a really good job and clearly

01:31:11   leading any of apples competitors in

01:31:13   terms of worldwide distribution rights

01:31:15   of everything you know everything other

01:31:17   than books and even more general they're

01:31:20   a very nice second place to Amazon yeah

01:31:23   and even with all the legal issues going

01:31:25   on right now they're still you know

01:31:27   still doing pretty well there are the

01:31:29   Mansfield thing strikes me as

01:31:30   particularly big though like you know

01:31:33   obviously he was retiring and then a few

01:31:35   weeks later there was the report that

01:31:37   they just threw a ton of money at him to

01:31:40   come back and at least you know help

01:31:41   transition the hardware team or whatever

01:31:44   and then now he has a completely new

01:31:46   role talking about the kind of vague

01:31:49   working in wireless technologies and

01:31:51   also the chip side of things right so

01:31:53   he's a his reputation with our company

01:31:55   was stellar

01:31:56   I mean is your reputation of right and

01:31:58   just kicking ass and doing really good

01:32:01   work that comes out on time on price you

01:32:05   know yet unbelievable

01:32:07   and you know and and i think the other

01:32:08   thing too is not just a wireless the big

01:32:10   thing is that he's also in charge of the

01:32:12   semi-conductor group and I think you

01:32:14   know a lot of people have written about

01:32:15   it but Apple taking more and more

01:32:17   ownership over the chip production of

01:32:19   the systems on a chip is at every year

01:32:23   now ever since they started it with the

01:32:24   the I the original ipad right that was

01:32:27   the first day for ya

01:32:30   I ever since then the a5 was more apple

01:32:33   controlled in the a4 and now the a6 is

01:32:36   entirely custom apple design

01:32:38   yeah you know which our friends at a

01:32:40   non-tech of have done it you know 8th

01:32:43   DoublePlay us job the examining and

01:32:47   that's it's a huge deal and it's all

01:32:50   mansfield now at least 42 years that's

01:32:53   kind of interesting that he has a two

01:32:55   year timeline but yeah that's good yeah

01:32:57   I still think you know it's interesting

01:33:01   and I do think you know my friend guy

01:33:03   English said but he's written about it

01:33:06   and he's you know it said that this is

01:33:07   just another example of it that still

01:33:08   this whole thing no shows that the

01:33:10   biggest risk for Apple over the next

01:33:12   five to ten years is a retention of

01:33:16   talent right at the top and at the

01:33:19   engineering rings and that's the other

01:33:20   the other under the surface thing is how

01:33:23   many people I and I know there are some

01:33:25   there's no doubt about it make no

01:33:26   mistake that's not like forestall was

01:33:28   universally hated within Apple there are

01:33:30   people who worked for for so who are

01:33:31   very very loyal to him and what happens

01:33:34   to them now

01:33:35   like is there going to be a talent loss

01:33:37   underneath him

01:33:38   yeah well we'll see i mean it is it may

01:33:41   depend on where he lands I mean if he if

01:33:43   he gets another high-profile job and

01:33:45   maybe he brings over some of his people

01:33:46   with them you know that they're

01:33:47   typically what tends to happen and so I

01:33:49   think that but they're saying right now

01:33:51   that what he's he's he's a special

01:33:54   adviser just like Fidel was before him

01:33:56   and he's going to be with the company

01:33:58   for another year or something like that

01:34:00   so right yeah all right well I want to

01:34:03   thank you mgc were for being here i want

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