0:00:00one of the things that made me think
0:00:01brad bird is number 1 i'm a big fan of
0:00:03all of his movies I can't think of a
0:00:06single one that I didn't enjoy but the
0:00:08other thing is that he has a track
0:00:09record of jumping into somebody else's
0:00:12thing and and sticking with it you know
0:00:15he did a Mission Impossible movie that
0:00:17is just a pure Mission Impossible movie
0:00:19i think the best one since the first one
0:00:21that the Palmer yet
0:00:23yeah i agree on a famously he took over
0:00:27ratatouille after somebody else that it
0:00:30wasn't his movie at Pixar somebody else
0:00:32had it and and everybody decided this
0:00:34isn't working out and he took over it at
0:00:36a you know late in the game and did well
0:00:39and that's obviously what somebody's
0:00:40gonna have to do to make a new star wars
0:00:42movie not necessarily that takeover and
0:00:44a half of boarded movie but you're
0:00:47coming into a series right yeah but i
0:00:52mean that that person whoever it is will
0:00:55have a much easier time than it would
0:00:58appear on the surface just because I
0:01:00mean I don't know about the people you
0:01:02know you you chat with on Twitter and
0:01:04stuff and but everyone there was like
0:01:06universal acclaim for the fact that
0:01:07George Lucas will only be a creative
0:01:09consultant on these things I mean I
0:01:10think everyone can agree that the the 13
0:01:15range from suck too bad and so you know
0:01:22it's big shoes to fill but it's also i
0:01:24think you know the kind of starting with
0:01:26a clean slate or they can they can do
0:01:30what they want so do you think what do
0:01:33you think they're going to do for these
0:01:34star wars things because so they went
0:01:36from George Lucas's obviously on record
0:01:38as saying that this was it they're never
0:01:40gonna do another one like he absolutely
0:01:41said no we're not going to do it and
0:01:43then you know things change people
0:01:45people acquire other entities and those
0:01:49entities have other ideas for what to do
0:01:50but there's all this you know there's
0:01:52the surrounding universe of Star Wars
0:01:54all those books comics etc do they use
0:01:58any of that or do they just come up with
0:01:59completely new things now I i say they
0:02:03go with completely new stuff I think
0:02:05I've always and I and I know there's
0:02:06probably a ton of listeners out there
0:02:09who who are going to disagree but
0:02:11my opinion is always been that the
0:02:13movies are the only cannon in Star Wars
0:02:16yeah and any other stuff is that just it
0:02:19may have the official logo on it but
0:02:21it's fanfiction right because i never
0:02:24got into i read the first one because i
0:02:26was so excited when the first novel came
0:02:29out
0:02:30uh-huh ah because it was unlike 99% sure
0:02:34yeah I think I've got the timing right
0:02:36on this where empires are not Empire
0:02:39return of the jedi comes out in 1983 and
0:02:41then Lucas is okay i'm done with these
0:02:43star wars movies for now and right you
0:02:45know and it did that was the only time
0:02:46it really late eighties was the only
0:02:48time r star wars really kind of faded
0:02:50away where there was no new stuff at all
0:02:52right in the nineties they said ok we're
0:02:54going to start some new stuff and ate
0:02:55the first thing they did was
0:02:56commissioned a novel and it was terrible
0:03:01it was so bad and you know what was it
0:03:05was it an extension of uh of regalia
0:03:09jetta it took place immediately have to
0:03:11return of the jedi and it's about this
0:03:12guy named Grand Admiral something is
0:03:16like some kind of alien Admiral in the
0:03:18in the Empire and he was holding what
0:03:22was left of the empire together and and
0:03:25and I guess what i really hated about it
0:03:28was it was just one number one just
0:03:30wasn't that compelling number two it was
0:03:32a just well what do you know
0:03:34once again the entire fate of the galaxy
0:03:36comes down to Han Solo Princess Leia and
0:03:40Luke Skywalker all right right Adrian
0:03:43and I got the impression then after you
0:03:45know I never read any other stuff but i
0:03:46can write I'd often pick up the back of
0:03:48them those novels and see what it is and
0:03:51it's just a series of you know 40
0:03:53different incidents where the entire
0:03:55galaxy comes down to the fate of hunt so
0:03:57scary and it's late
0:04:00uh yeah that's a I you know it's sort of
0:04:04the James Bond movies right so there are
0:04:07what was it up until I forget you'll
0:04:09know this which one was it was derived
0:04:12from an actual even Fleming novel but
0:04:13they obviously had to break away from
0:04:14that because they just ran out of novels
0:04:16doing it I i forget the last one that
0:04:19was based on anything it's one of the
0:04:20ones in the seventies one of the Roger
0:04:22Moore ones and
0:04:23so they eventually had to move on and
0:04:25just come up with new stories and they
0:04:26also have I think the same thing where
0:04:28they have people doing fanfiction and
0:04:30doing their own like James Bond things
0:04:32so it's not as big don't think it's the
0:04:34star wars element of it but yes so now
0:04:36the movies are just they hire great
0:04:37screenwriters well sometimes mediocre
0:04:41sometimes it's it's the cast on the
0:04:43screenwriter on strike but they try and
0:04:45hire great screen writers to write these
0:04:47things just just from scratch and i
0:04:48think that works pretty well yeah i
0:04:50think so too and you know obviously you
0:04:51know the end and again they went back to
0:04:53in fleming source material for casino
0:04:56royale right and did I think a fantastic
0:04:59job of modernizing it you know because
0:05:01it was you know that the geopolitics of
0:05:04the novel written 1959 don't exactly
0:05:06hold up anymore right
0:05:09I've heard the new one is is excellent
0:05:11Ivan Ivan Ivan voided reading any major
0:05:14review of it but the bugs seems to be
0:05:16excellent buzz yeah I've actually heard
0:05:18and dead serious
0:05:20I mean exactly with you where I've I
0:05:22almost didn't even want to watch the
0:05:23trailer but I did and I'm glad I did
0:05:25because it wasn't a spoiler trailer that
0:05:26that that no modern format of trailer
0:05:29with we condense the entire plot into
0:05:31the 2-minute I wasn't like that at all
0:05:34too true teaser trailer but the thing
0:05:37i've heard is that there are people
0:05:38saying that this seriously could be like
0:05:40a best-picture movie I don't know about
0:05:44that i mean i was almost too good to
0:05:46wish for but it that somebody would even
0:05:47seriously or even have seriously
0:05:49suggested says to me all I need to know
0:05:52will have your burden is always a you
0:05:54know an actor in some category he seems
0:05:57to be in every year being nominated for
0:05:59something so in this is movie this year
0:06:01so you know maybe yeah I you know I I
0:06:04just an old adage I don't even you know
0:06:06i'm sure it distributed to 30 different
0:06:08directors but that ninety percent of
0:06:10directing is casting on and i do think
0:06:13that a lot of the bad James Bond movies
0:06:16have been really poorly cast word so you
0:06:18don't even know any of the other guys
0:06:19who are in there and I can't even name
0:06:20the actors i visit a hell of a cast
0:06:23right you get Javier Bardem you got it
0:06:27isn't rape refined in this yeah ray
0:06:29fridays in it and i have no idea what he
0:06:31is and don't have nobody tell me because
0:06:33i have no idea they get it was
0:06:34apparently a big secret
0:06:36good guys and bad guys the traders ii
0:06:38who knows but you know what can they
0:06:40have have you ever seen the movie
0:06:42perfume this kind of strange movie and I
0:06:45have that's about it's a weird series
0:06:48like killer with killer with a great
0:06:51sense of spell movie but it's an
0:06:52interesting movie is a it's like a
0:06:53quirky thing but anyway that that guy's
0:06:56i think is also in the James fun and
0:06:58he's I don't think I'm spoiling anything
0:07:00because it isn't the teaser thing where
0:07:01he's plays a the new quartermaster
0:07:04yeah yeah I know I knew that yeah he's
0:07:06like yeah and I are gonna write that
0:07:07down and watch that
0:07:08ya know i love the idea i love the idea
0:07:11that q is that the dynamic now is going
0:07:13to be that he's young he's like a
0:07:15twenty-something you know nerd
0:07:18yeah as opposed to being way older than
0:07:19bond now he's way younger than one
0:07:21yeah well you're going back to the star
0:07:24wars and here's the thing i remember
0:07:26this is why I'm not surprised that that
0:07:28there's a 789 that Lucas and I don't
0:07:31think it's a bad idea that Lucas has an
0:07:32outline form i think an outline from
0:07:34Lucas is exactly it's great because you
0:07:36know he's done the outline of what he's
0:07:39done for the original six movies is fine
0:07:41right it's the execution exactly in the
0:07:44dialogue just keep your eye on its
0:07:46overhead right and it's just no surprise
0:07:48that that with Empire Strikes Back he
0:07:50didn't write the screenplay did the
0:07:51story and then they went to Lee bracket
0:07:55who wrote those great nineteen forties
0:07:57Humphrey Bogart movies which were almost
0:07:59entirely the entire appeal of them was
0:08:01the great dialogue
0:08:03ok so that's you know I think that's a
0:08:05great direction but here's the thing i
0:08:06remember is when I was a kid it was so
0:08:09hard to get information because you know
0:08:11there was no internet and you would get
0:08:13these I remember I beg and plead and get
0:08:15my mom to buy these crazy magazines at
0:08:18the supermarket these movie magazines
0:08:20you know like things like fangoria i
0:08:23think was one yeah right you know and
0:08:25most of it was just filled and I liked
0:08:27it all but most of it was filled with
0:08:29you know like a seven-page thing on how
0:08:33they did the makeup for American
0:08:35Werewolf in London which is kind of
0:08:36interesting how they do makeup and how
0:08:38they do special effects and stuff like
0:08:39that but then that's where i would get
0:08:41tidbits of rumors about Star Wars and my
0:08:46friends and I would just buy these
0:08:47magazines and can
0:08:48assume them just to try to get the
0:08:50rumors about Star Wars and i remember
0:08:53back and this is you know early eighties
0:08:55maybe even before return of the jedi
0:08:58came out that we knew we'd is like a
0:09:03good eight nine ten year old kid I knew
0:09:05that there were going to be nine movies
0:09:08and that the first three words the you
0:09:10know these three that the next three
0:09:12we're going to take place before right
0:09:15we knew i knew in 1983 that how did will
0:09:18be our how did Anakin Skywalker turned
0:09:20into Darth Vader had a lightsaber duel
0:09:22with obi-wan Kenobi and got knocked into
0:09:25a pit of lava I'm I knew that when I was
0:09:28nine and isolated what do i do lily is
0:09:31kind of abandoned that when he and his
0:09:34most heinous recent interviews not
0:09:35recent but a few years ago and write
0:09:37about the second trilogy ye bandhan just
0:09:39burnt out or was you think I don't know
0:09:41my best guess is he just wanted people
0:09:43to shut up about it stop asking you
0:09:45and so he always knew he wanted to make
0:09:47nine but as soon as he finished the
0:09:48second three he just said there aren't
0:09:50going to be any more because it's a good
0:09:51way to get people to stop asking him
0:09:53when there's gonna be more storms yeah
0:09:55that's my guess
0:09:56another thing that wasn't brought up
0:09:58yesterday he is still in the process of
0:10:00doing like the 3d transformation all
0:10:02these right wasn't in the works
0:10:05yes because i went to see the phantom
0:10:08menace in 3d with with the with my son
0:10:11and I think the other ones haven't
0:10:12haven't come out haven't come out yet
0:10:13right so i assume that that's still in
0:10:15the works unless they unless Phantom
0:10:18Menace I don't know how well it did if
0:10:19it didn't do well and it wasn't worth
0:10:21the time and money to to i read great
0:10:23did it was like middling it did like a
0:10:27hundred and five million at the box
0:10:28office in a reissue which was you know
0:10:30it's a hundred five million box with
0:10:32right that right that I wonder how much
0:10:34that cost to do
0:10:35yeah but it wasn't like a sensation yeah
0:10:38one you know one other interesting point
0:10:40on that is someone I saw brought up and
0:10:42it's just kind of a nice parallel i
0:10:45think they said that uh mark hamill will
0:10:50be the same age as alec guinness was in
0:10:53the original Star Wars when this new
0:10:552015 Star Wars comes out really kind of
0:10:58area to the whole parallel or is
0:11:00outguess younger than I
0:11:02I think yeah I think he was 60 sometime
0:11:04like that
0:11:05yeah yeah I think that's right i think
0:11:07that's what they said i think it was
0:11:08Mark Hamill I don't know he always
0:11:10looked all I've always thought that was
0:11:12one of those continuity things that just
0:11:13doesn't seem to add up is that how old
0:11:18you and mcgregor looks at the end of
0:11:20episode three when he's handing over
0:11:22baby Luke to the family where I compared
0:11:25to and was it 19 years later 20 years
0:11:27later in the nineteen or twenty years
0:11:29later when when the next one picks up
0:11:31the right right looks like he had over
0:11:3320 years
0:11:35yeah I've always having my back of my
0:11:37mind I've always thought I was gonna do
0:11:39to commission some sort of parody thing
0:11:41that I thought it would be funny that
0:11:43you know in this question of hey why not
0:11:46in those intervening 20 years why did
0:11:48Yoda and obi-wan go into hiding rather
0:11:50than like try to kick some ass around
0:11:52the galaxy right in my I always thought
0:11:55the funniest explanation would be that
0:11:56he he just drank himself sick and that
0:11:59can happen and you know like that's why
0:12:01he knows you can see it as a good look
0:12:03yeah that's a lie like that I like that
0:12:05because it really does seem like he's
0:12:07headed very a really rough 20 years
0:12:10well and ewan mcgregor did a good job of
0:12:12the voice stuff right like he's he did a
0:12:14fantastic job he's constantly mimicking
0:12:17Alec Guinness his voice and yes just
0:12:19like they could have done a little bit
0:12:20more makeup work yes and in the third
0:12:22one to show him slowly deteriorating
0:12:25something like that
0:12:27I well remember when they were
0:12:28originally casting the new trilogy one
0:12:31of the rumors was that kenneth branagh
0:12:34was up for the role of obi-wan Kenobi
0:12:37ok so even closer in age than at least
0:12:40liked for the Aged discrepancy right and
0:12:42i think that the guy i think the
0:12:44explanation was that he had read Lucas
0:12:47reconsidered how big of a span he wanted
0:12:49to cover and wanted to have a truly
0:12:52young obi-wan in the first one you know
0:12:54like I don't know how old he was but he
0:12:56was supposed to know you still a Padawan
0:12:57and right he has a rat tail so it's
0:13:01probably like you know right yeah 20 but
0:13:04i think though that kenneth branagh
0:13:06would have been it would have made the
0:13:07continuity feel more by the end of the
0:13:10three movies would have made it feel a
0:13:12little bit more
0:13:13again it's about 20 years before Alec
0:13:16Guinness so do you think with these new
0:13:18ones you think they do continuation or
0:13:21all new characters I mean they'll have
0:13:23to do some obviously tions to the to the
0:13:26previous original trilogy right i really
0:13:29don't know and that was the one thing
0:13:31you know that
0:13:33yeah and and there do you see the thing
0:13:36that came out today that mark hamill
0:13:38said in an interview that George Lucas
0:13:40had told that had lunch with him and
0:13:42Carrie Fisher a year ago and told them
0:13:45like a year ago and said look you can't
0:13:47tell anybody but I'm going to do three
0:13:48more movies and I guess there was
0:13:49nothing interview interview that said I
0:13:51want you guys in it
0:13:52alright it just he just said I just like
0:13:55you guys should know because it's gonna
0:13:57come out you know it's gonna come out
0:13:58eventually I wanted you guys to know
0:14:00that and they're going to be sequels
0:14:01that take place later but I you know
0:14:03whether it's 20 30 years and those
0:14:05characters are still alive or whether
0:14:06it's you know thousand generations or
0:14:09something like that I don't know
0:14:11yeah well if they want to I mean the
0:14:14every indication by disney now is that
0:14:15they want to keep keep this going
0:14:17indefinitely almost like a James Bond
0:14:18type thing where you know even new one
0:14:20every few years so if they do that then
0:14:22I assume they start pretty soon after
0:14:25the the original trilogy and then just
0:14:26keep going into the future and trying to
0:14:28make compelling characters right be kind
0:14:31of cool if it was just like rumored you
0:14:32know like that there's this guy Luke
0:14:34Skywalker's I don't know I definitely
0:14:36think it could be it's very yet I feel
0:14:38like it could be great and I but I feel
0:14:39like the worst thing would be if it's
0:14:41you know Lucan land and I I can't
0:14:45imagine Harrison Ford want anything to
0:14:46do with it and right now Luke and Leia
0:14:50and Chewbacca save the galaxy again
0:14:53okay yeah pretty exciting
0:14:58yeah I'm surprised I'm kind of so i
0:15:01don't know i mean obviously I've never
0:15:02met George Lucas but I'm just surprised
0:15:09it from what I thought about him that
0:15:10just you know I guess he wants to get
0:15:11into charity and I guess if you're gonna
0:15:13write you can do that me know if that's
0:15:15really where your passion is you know it
0:15:17just doesn't make sense to me
0:15:18he clearly has yet I think he's ok he's
0:15:20already billionaire right from from all
0:15:22those movies like he his big thing was
0:15:24that he did such a good job of the
0:15:26the cutting the deals to get the
0:15:28merchandising rights right i mean that's
0:15:30very made most of his money off of off
0:15:32of all the Star Wars movies and the
0:15:35movies themselves made you know over a
0:15:36billion dollars but that's small
0:15:38compared to what they make on the toy
0:15:40sales and all that other stuff and so
0:15:42yeah he clearly didn't need the money to
0:15:45do it but maybe don't know maybe feels
0:15:47like Disney will be a good shepherd I
0:15:48mean Bob Iger seems to be awesome at
0:15:50cutting these these types of deals I i
0:15:52actually just want to take him at his
0:15:54word and that he you know he wasn't
0:15:56going to make anymore he wants us to
0:15:57stay evergreen and you who better to has
0:16:01a better track record of keeping
0:16:03franchises a live decade after decade
0:16:06than disney right you know and have done
0:16:09a very good job with the muppets they've
0:16:11done a good job with that
0:16:12well marvel it's hard to judge so far
0:16:14that's right it's too early but they've
0:16:17done a good job so far with those films
0:16:18and they do a great job with the
0:16:20merchandising which has always been so
0:16:21important to start were so right
0:16:23yeah it's a good fit yeah very exciting
0:16:25as i said i tweeted this and couple a
0:16:29lot of people retweeted it and it does
0:16:31it weirds me out is that it is going to
0:16:33be really weird to have a Star Wars
0:16:34movie open without the 20th century five
0:16:37and fair
0:16:38yeah yeah I wonder do they did they
0:16:41retain any sort of Rights for like Co
0:16:45distribution of any future properties no
0:16:48okay and it's different with Indiana
0:16:50Jones paramount has anything if they do
0:16:54anything with Indiana Jones it's gonna
0:16:56have to be with paramount cooperation
0:16:58ok on in some degree or they have to buy
0:17:02them out they are there's something that
0:17:03have to buy up and our warriors and
0:17:05that's because like Spielberg it's that
0:17:07this is so incestuous right so
0:17:09Spielberg's Amblin group had a deal with
0:17:11paramount back then when they were doing
0:17:13that and then Kathleen Kennedy was his
0:17:15production partner and now Kathleen
0:17:16Kennedy is the president of a Lucasfilm
0:17:20at disney so it's like all these things
0:17:23are tied together directly i didn't
0:17:28think about that i didn't put those that
0:17:29her name together there
0:17:30yeah the three of them are all like yeah
0:17:33Lucas spill Bergen in kathleen kennedy
0:17:35obviously have been closed for a long
0:17:37time and now that's all sort of related
0:17:39and then
0:17:39so I don't know but everybody but 20th
0:17:42Century Fox has nothing going forward
0:17:44with the new trilogy the only thing that
0:17:46they have and it is fascinating is the
0:17:4920th Century Fox has perpetual rights
0:17:55into infinity for the original 1977 star
0:17:59wars a new hope for the distribution of
0:18:01it all that's interesting day they have
0:18:03Empire and return of the jedi until like
0:18:0720 20 or something like that and I don't
0:18:09think they end the new ones they were
0:18:12just you know Lucas was in a position of
0:18:13power where they they were just
0:18:15discussing later
0:18:16something must they must be pushing them
0:18:18to do this 3d stuff because they want to
0:18:20squeeze as much money before 2020 or
0:18:22whatever it is they can out of this
0:18:24yeah i think so and that the idea was
0:18:26that once these other three movies are
0:18:28done figured 2015 given two for each
0:18:32year two years reach 2015 17 19 that by
0:18:362020 it would be nice to be able to buy
0:18:39a 9 movie box set but that it would
0:18:41never be possible without either buying
0:18:4420th Century Fox's rights for that
0:18:47original 1977 one or doing it in
0:18:51cooperation with them that's that you
0:18:54know that's that's interesting when
0:18:55thinking about the james bond series
0:18:57again right because uh who is it it
0:18:59might make me paramount that owns the
0:19:01rights to one I think it's thunderball
0:19:03and that's why they redid the night that
0:19:06bond movie in the eighties with with
0:19:08Connor e-learning never seen ya never
0:19:10say never again because that's the only
0:19:12one they own the rights to that's the
0:19:13only one that the the broccoli family
0:19:16doesn't have complete rights to it i
0:19:19believe
0:19:20yeah it's a very it I i really got
0:19:23obsessed with that a while ago is when
0:19:24Dan Benjamin and I were going through
0:19:26all the james bond movie and we decided
0:19:28to treat it as one because the honorees
0:19:30and it's a bond movie
0:19:31yeah it's like he had agreed to do a
0:19:36teleplay Ian Fleming I'm wasn't a James
0:19:40Bond story i don't think it was just a
0:19:42spy caper for like the BBC television
0:19:44with a co-writer yeah and it fell
0:19:47through never happened and he took the
0:19:50guts of the story which was just the
0:19:52basic idea of it
0:19:53terrorist organization steals a nuclear
0:19:56bomb by hijacking by having a trader on
0:19:59a a pilot Air Force pilot because a
0:20:03trader for this terrorist group and
0:20:05that's how they get ahold of a nuclear
0:20:06bomb and they just want to ransom it off
0:20:09ok good story but he took it and made it
0:20:12into a bond novel and the litigation
0:20:15started and it was all ongoing and the
0:20:18broccoli group went ahead and made a
0:20:20movie out of thunderball anyway even
0:20:21though they had some of their advisors
0:20:23are saying maybe we shouldn't do this
0:20:24one to keep you know let's do another
0:20:26one he's already got 60 these novels
0:20:28don't do thunderball yet because there's
0:20:29this legally questionable weird anyway
0:20:32and it was a huge hit i mean it was you
0:20:34know is i might have been making the
0:20:38biggest it might have been the biggest
0:20:39one because it was the fourth one and
0:20:40Goldfinger was was one of a kind of
0:20:43broke through as a sensation and
0:20:44thunderbird is just an unbelievable
0:20:45follow-up Ron and it was like more of a
0:20:49spectacular in terms of the effects with
0:20:51all the underwater fighting and stuff it
0:20:54was I get people were going back to see
0:20:56it again and again because they were
0:20:57seeing things in everything but anyway
0:20:58they ended up losing the litigation and
0:21:00lost money on it and and that the gist
0:21:03of it was that both Fleming and the
0:21:07original guy got co-writes to the
0:21:09Thunderbolt James Bond thunderball story
0:21:11so the broccoli group if they wanted to
0:21:12could make a new do it fireball it but
0:21:16there's this other group at you know i
0:21:18think you're right that it's paramount
0:21:19could do it to like they could still
0:21:22make any they still could make a James
0:21:24Bond movie if it follows the plot and I
0:21:27think they were I believe that almost
0:21:29happened in the nineties when they were
0:21:31in between the Dalton and bras and stuff
0:21:33i think that a group was exploring
0:21:36rebooting before gold and I came out for
0:21:40paramount or whoever the other studio is
0:21:42but yeah it would've had to use that
0:21:44same they're just gonna remake it every
0:21:4610 years I guess Nam and so I wonder if
0:21:48with with Star Wars now since since 20
0:21:51Century Fox owns those the rights to the
0:21:53first one if they do like a remake of a
0:21:57new hope with like six year old mark
0:21:59hamill and I don't know if you that
0:22:01would be it would be interesting if they
0:22:03have the right to do whatever they want
0:22:04like that or just the rights to
0:22:06distribute
0:22:06the movie as it was made you know you
0:22:08got me interested yeah I don't know
0:22:11fascinating stuff though really is yes
0:22:14us all right let's do that the nerd why
0:22:18that's nerd stuff too but that one their
0:22:20stuff right actually quite a bit of
0:22:22applications now the Apple the ipad mini
0:22:25ipad for seems like everybody did what I
0:22:28did it seems i didn't really discuss
0:22:30with anybody but I i had to review units
0:22:32from apple and an ipad 4 and iPad Mini
0:22:35yep i spent all week with the ipad mini
0:22:37and i use the ipad for free like 15
0:22:40minutes just did you not give it a kick
0:22:42kick the tires run some benchmarks and
0:22:44as I get it just like the ipad 3 about
0:22:46twice as fast
0:22:47yeah that the problem is I don't know if
0:22:51you ran into this like I was trying to
0:22:52test the the fourth-generation iPad and
0:22:55it the ipad 3 is already so fast for
0:22:59every app that I try to run it's just
0:23:01like it's hard to gauge I think you know
0:23:04things load faster generally but it's I
0:23:07mean it was already loading so fast so
0:23:09we're really gonna have to wait for
0:23:10developers to come up with kind of crazy
0:23:12apps to take advantage of the a6x and
0:23:16and the new graphics capabilities and
0:23:18we're just not there yet
0:23:19yeah aiight i saw a demo of one kind of
0:23:23during the briefing thing of of game
0:23:27that was specifically built for the new
0:23:29technical capabilities and looked
0:23:30amazing you know different lens flares
0:23:33and all kinds of different things going
0:23:34on graphically but yeah it's it's really
0:23:38it was really pretty hard to to try to
0:23:41review this fourth-generation iPad since
0:23:43it is you know for all intents and
0:23:45purposes a an ipad 3 s right
0:23:48yes and it's true too because you know
0:23:50that the games were already out there
0:23:51they're the developers aren't going to
0:23:54target hardware beyond what's already
0:23:55out there so anything that's already am
0:23:57store is meant to run well on the ipad 3
0:23:59yep or at least on the ipad 3 if not
0:24:02even older ipad so did you know that
0:24:04I've had for is going to use you know go
0:24:06through that without even breaking a
0:24:08sweat
0:24:09yeah so yeah I think we all i think i
0:24:11saw that too that pretty much everyone
0:24:12roped in there just a quick mention
0:24:14about the the ipad fortune in their ipad
0:24:17mini review yeah but i really like
0:24:19did the ipad mini I really all I think I
0:24:23like it more
0:24:24you know I'm gonna take a lot of shit
0:24:26for saying that but I think I like it
0:24:27more each day like the more I just use
0:24:29it just seems to be a much more natural
0:24:31way to just interact with them with a
0:24:36tablet seems like it and I I'd feeling I
0:24:38would feel that way given my thoughts
0:24:40about the nexus 7 the form factor in
0:24:42general and it just seems like Apple had
0:24:46an opportunity to really nail this form
0:24:48factor and I think they did I wanted two
0:24:50things that struck me i didn't put in my
0:24:52review but and i actually just saved it
0:24:54for the show cuz it it anyway sound
0:24:56better than it would read better but it
0:24:58took me feels like more of a pad like
0:25:02the your word pad fits better here
0:25:05whereas the full-sized iPad is more of a
0:25:08tap tablet seems like the right word
0:25:09right like this big thing that Moses
0:25:11came down the mountain with a big tablet
0:25:13yeah that's that's a good way to put it
0:25:15i agree with that this feels more like a
0:25:17pattern i know people have been
0:25:18comparing it to like you know the weight
0:25:21to like a pad of paper at it they are
0:25:23very similar it's you know it's even
0:25:25smaller than like a mosque in notebook
0:25:28or doing a bigger normal skin notebook
0:25:31right on probably equivalent to like the
0:25:34the more pocket-sized moleskin notebook
0:25:36it really just pad feels like the right
0:25:38word and I do feel like this is sort of
0:25:40the natural especially for someone and i
0:25:42really emphasize this as someone who
0:25:44still has and wants to have a portable a
0:25:48real portable laptop computer like a
0:25:50macbook air macbook pro or something
0:25:52like that as a secondary portable
0:25:56computer this seems like a better form
0:25:57factor
0:25:58yeah and I think that's why you know
0:26:01some people are already questioning well
0:26:02how does this fit into the lineup I mean
0:26:04you know you got an ipad already why
0:26:06someone would buy this
0:26:07I do think that'll that more people are
0:26:08going to end up buying an ipad mini I
0:26:10mean I know it's it's early and and who
0:26:12knows how this will actually play out
0:26:14especially given the price element of it
0:26:15but this just seems like the thing that
0:26:18people will want especially the people
0:26:21that you're talking about which is most
0:26:23people most people already have a
0:26:24computer of course and so they're
0:26:26wondering like why should i get an ipad
0:26:27when I already have a computer maybe
0:26:28i'll get an ipad you know when my
0:26:30computer dies or something like that but
0:26:32this
0:26:32this is a pretty natural transition
0:26:34point to have both so yeah that's why I
0:26:38think that this thing maybe soon as next
0:26:41quarter could end up about selling the
0:26:43the iPad itself i really i think for the
0:26:45holiday quarter i really do and part of
0:26:47the reaction and it's one basing it on a
0:26:48sample size of one almost nine year old
0:26:52boy but there is a note no doubt in my
0:26:55mind that if you sent if you gave my son
0:26:57400 bucks put them in the apple store
0:26:59and so you can buy whatever i pod you
0:27:02want our iPad well whatever you want 400
0:27:06bucks i think there's no doubt in my
0:27:08mind that he would buy the ipad mini
0:27:09this is no question he wouldn't know how
0:27:12is he so that's I'm pretty interested in
0:27:14that because i have no real a data point
0:27:17there yet in terms of like kids using it
0:27:20so that's a huge thing for the iPad
0:27:22itself and everyone knows this by now
0:27:25but what about the ipad mini with kids
0:27:27like how did your son use I wanted to
0:27:30play games on it and you know and he
0:27:32does he does read he reads it does I
0:27:34books on his ipad is an old think it's a
0:27:38first gen ipad actually the one that we
0:27:40have been around that's for him to use
0:27:41but it's definitely pretty resonant
0:27:43either a one or two but it always has
0:27:46surprised me that he uses it less than
0:27:49his old last generation Knockaround
0:27:51iphone that we given he plays more games
0:27:55has played can you know consistently
0:27:58more games on an iphone then on an iPad
0:28:01even when it's not because we were out
0:28:03it out about and that's what was easy to
0:28:05take form it's in the house when he's on
0:28:08the couch and he's just playing games he
0:28:09likes that because i think that the the
0:28:11weight of the idea is a it just feels
0:28:14like work whereas he really likes the
0:28:16size of this is like what you know is
0:28:17his take was I can't believe they didn't
0:28:19make them all like this so yeah I wrote
0:28:22in my review and I think I'm not it i'm
0:28:25not a huge gamer by any stretch but it
0:28:27seems like when i was playing some of
0:28:29the just testing out some of the
0:28:30different ipad optimized games on this
0:28:33ipad mini this seems like an absolute
0:28:35killer gaming device like I don't know
0:28:37why people would still buy an xbox or
0:28:41you know obviously there's going to be
0:28:43games that have
0:28:44with more better graphics capabilities
0:28:47and you know some more involved games
0:28:50but for casual gaming this is an
0:28:51absolute killer device for that it's
0:28:53like the perfect size and it almost
0:28:55feels like these games were tailored for
0:28:57an ipad this size rather than the larger
0:29:00size because like where your hands are
0:29:01situated and you know you have well you
0:29:04don't have a you know the side bezel now
0:29:05really on the when you're holding it in
0:29:07portrait mode in landscape mode you
0:29:09still have that and it's just it seems
0:29:11like a really awesome gaming machines
0:29:13yeah i think so too i really do think
0:29:15that in some ways maybe it's more of a
0:29:18devastating competitive move to nintendo
0:29:21and Joanie yes then it is to google and
0:29:26amazon you know because especially with
0:29:28isn't nintendo I you know I haven't seen
0:29:30too much about it but I know it's coming
0:29:32out the wii u their new gaming systems
0:29:35they're gonna be first to market of the
0:29:37next-generation gaming system with this
0:29:39wii u thing in I mean it's sort of not
0:29:42too different from what the ipad mini is
0:29:45doing right it's like the handheld
0:29:47touchable hold it with two hands type
0:29:50thing and i think that i mean this is
0:29:53this is going to be huge for for kids it
0:29:55gaming and for just people like casual
0:29:57games now I don't count nintendo out
0:29:59cause I'm a huge fan of Nintendo's work
0:30:01and I think they really do sweat the
0:30:03details and and in an apple-like way
0:30:05about getting gameplay right buttons
0:30:07right into that but I just think that
0:30:09the ipad could risk taking so much
0:30:12oxygen out of the room that there
0:30:13there's not enough left for nintendo no
0:30:15matter how good the product they come
0:30:17out with this
0:30:18yeah and I mean we this gets brought up
0:30:21every every quarter at least but how
0:30:23awesome would it be if Apple just bought
0:30:25nintendo I mean it would be it would be
0:30:27such a great selling point for these
0:30:30devices it makes sense for Apple to do
0:30:32because that's that's will get people
0:30:35specifically just to buy an ipad mini to
0:30:37be able to play mario and zelda and
0:30:39those and those types of IP it seems
0:30:40like Nintendo like the reports out of
0:30:42Japan they're very proud company
0:30:43obviously they don't want to do that but
0:30:45Apple has the money of course to do it
0:30:47and it's just a question of what it
0:30:48would it work could they make it work
0:30:50and would it make sense to maybe keep
0:30:52them get them out of the hardware game
0:30:54and keep them is like into almost
0:30:56independent
0:30:57content game you know just focus on
0:31:01making games will make the devices you
0:31:04focus on your library you know almost
0:31:07again like Star Wars this great library
0:31:09of classic characters and games and
0:31:12innovative new stuff that's really
0:31:16really super engaging yeah and i think
0:31:19that they would avoid what you know what
0:31:21would be the pitfall of potential
0:31:23pitfall of this which is that you know
0:31:25well apples moving into gaming now
0:31:26everyone else watch out but the gaming
0:31:28environment is such a big thing and this
0:31:30is worked well for nintendo in the past
0:31:32and all these other guys they make their
0:31:33games everyone makes their own games but
0:31:35then they have the larger ecosystem and
0:31:37it's kind of like pushing the envelope
0:31:38for nintendo's always been good at at
0:31:40setting a new high bar and kind of the
0:31:42other guys trying to to match it and
0:31:44apple could do the same thing with their
0:31:46own gaming studio under nintendo if they
0:31:48did that or if they worked out some kind
0:31:51of deal you know maybe they want to
0:31:53require you to do some kind of the
0:31:54essence in deal where they encourage
0:31:56them to you know somehow do we
0:31:58exclusively producing yeah stuff might
0:32:01have to imagine that all of those guys
0:32:03have been talking about this for years
0:32:04and microsoft sony well maybe not
0:32:08something i don't know what the rivalry
0:32:09like is its with sony and nintendo maybe
0:32:11they hate each other but Microsoft
0:32:14certainly had to have has to have
0:32:15constantly been approaching intended to
0:32:17try and make those games available on
0:32:19xbox because it's such a gold mine right
0:32:21well it's two hands they have number one
0:32:24they have nintendo has tremendous talent
0:32:27yes I mean then consistently you know
0:32:29they just have great great game
0:32:31designers and artists and the second
0:32:34thing i have is this library of
0:32:36characters which as that the Marvel
0:32:39acquisition and the star wars
0:32:40acquisition show has unbelievable value
0:32:43I mean then you know that's been long
0:32:45enough that you know there's no doubt
0:32:47that these guys like Mario and Donkey
0:32:49Kong and those guys are you know maybe
0:32:52they're not quite at the level of the
0:32:53Disney characters like Donald Duck and
0:32:55Mickey and those guys but they're very
0:32:56very close and maybe I would be
0:32:58surprised if in Asia their greater yeah
0:33:01oh yeah that's it i would be surprised
0:33:04either a disney tries to acquire a
0:33:05nintendo I we may write in their
0:33:07wheelhouse know and that definitely
0:33:08seems like their strategies if you
0:33:10not evergreen ensemble of these
0:33:14characters that were a no and its family
0:33:16and their family friend friendly than
0:33:17where we want them
0:33:19yeah no doubt about it ok with the game
0:33:25I think of and I don't play enough games
0:33:26to really to be a great judge of it but
0:33:29I know the one game i sometimes like to
0:33:30play as the real racing games on ipad
0:33:33and it's it's I think it's definitely
0:33:35better on the mini no doubt in my mind
0:33:37because it's you know it's just far less
0:33:39to hold out in front of you i mean your
0:33:41arms are sticking straight up and then
0:33:42you know doing this thing where you're
0:33:44turning the screen with a pound and a
0:33:47half vs. you know seven-tenths of Amelia
0:33:50it's right you know it's a huge
0:33:52difference so I do think that gaming
0:33:54alone i think ipad mini and so is going
0:33:56to be a hit and so let's talk about the
0:34:00screen that's obviously I mean every
0:34:02review had to say it because it's just
0:34:04straight in front of you anyone who's
0:34:06used retina display for extended period
0:34:08of time will be immediately kind of
0:34:12turned off
0:34:13I at first by the screen because it's
0:34:15not retin-a quality and you know to me
0:34:19that kind of faded over time but then I
0:34:20switch back to you know I've got the
0:34:22retina mac and of course the retina
0:34:24iphone and the retina iPad and so it's
0:34:27just it's pretty jarring but you know
0:34:30the larger point is that most people
0:34:32still don't have iPads and there's
0:34:34plenty of people still with with non
0:34:37retina displays on their various devices
0:34:39who won't who you know it
0:34:41this is still a great display it's just
0:34:43not a Retina display no I you know I'd
0:34:46really that was my first I was just
0:34:48really disappointed after a week I got
0:34:50used to it especially because I stopped
0:34:51using the other ipad i wanted to you
0:34:53know most people normal people are going
0:34:55to more than one ipad that they use so i
0:34:57just use the mini for a week and I got
0:34:59used to it but i also am clearly i am
0:35:02very self aware that I am far more
0:35:04obsessed with screen resolution
0:35:07resolution than most people and also
0:35:10specifically with the rendering of type
0:35:13on screen yeah you know I mean I know
0:35:16how to recognize Ariel from the
0:35:17helvetica
0:35:18normal people don't know where normal
0:35:19people just don't see that big a
0:35:21difference between redneck
0:35:22non retina and i really do think i am
0:35:25convinced absolutely
0:35:27well I'll say 99.8 percent convinced
0:35:31that the ipad 2 has continued to sell
0:35:35very very well maybe even surprisingly
0:35:38well at 399 alongside the retina iPad
0:35:42threes that people are going into apple
0:35:44stores for the last seven months seeing
0:35:46the ipad 2 right next to the retina iPad
0:35:50threes and saying WOW 399 I'll take this
0:35:53one
0:35:53yeah and I tried to get some sort of
0:35:55answer out of Apple about that they they
0:35:57won't give you anything specific but it
0:36:00seems like certainly education comes
0:36:02into play there are you know they're
0:36:04they're selling the cheaper versions and
0:36:05they I think they sell them at a
0:36:06discount right if they if they sell them
0:36:08in bulk and so education is a part of
0:36:12that but yeah there's no question that
0:36:14they're selling the ipad 2 for a reason
0:36:17even though they discontinued the
0:36:18third-generation ipad right like rather
0:36:20than doing fourth-generation move the
0:36:22ipad 3 down to the 399 price they just
0:36:25killed that off and now they're just
0:36:26doing the ipad 2 and so that says all
0:36:29you need to know right there that
0:36:30obviously it had to have been selling
0:36:32well and so its existence proof that
0:36:35right now today you do not need a Retina
0:36:37display and an ipad to sell well yeah
0:36:40it's you know it would be nice and
0:36:42surely eventually whether it's a year
0:36:44from now or 18 months from now or two
0:36:46years from now there's going to be an
0:36:48ipad mini with retina display it just is
0:36:50not right
0:36:50right as rain you know I'm sure it's you
0:36:52know night follows day but and that's
0:36:55going to be great and I'm going to love
0:36:56it and I'm going to be so happy but in
0:36:58the meantime there's absolutely no
0:37:00reason that this isn't going to continue
0:37:01to sell really well and I think the ipad
0:37:04to you know whether Apple did
0:37:05intentionally or not it's it made the
0:37:09timing of this ipad mini pretty perfect
0:37:12because had there been nothing but a
0:37:15Retina Display ipad out there first so
0:37:18the four and three the downgrade would
0:37:21have been much more dramatic but the
0:37:22fact that they are still selling the two
0:37:24you know they don't have to come in with
0:37:26a product that's the that's really
0:37:28downgrade in anyway it's just it's a
0:37:30better ipad2 right it's not a it's not a
0:37:32downgraded ipad forward now
0:37:35no it's a great product alright let me
0:37:37take a break into the first sponsor for
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0:37:42it's an alternative interface to the
0:37:44appstore here's the problem that they
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0:37:47solve is that it is insanely difficult
0:37:48to find the best apps in the App Store
0:37:51easy to find the most popular apps right
0:37:54apple makes these list of categories
0:37:55where you can find the the current most
0:37:59popular apps but how do you find the
0:38:02best apps the ones that are actually
0:38:03either the highest quality the hidden
0:38:06gems that should be more popular but
0:38:08aren't yet and all sorts of great apps
0:38:11just aren't even in these topless right
0:38:13Marco Arment the magazine not at non the
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0:38:19app all a claim by all sorts of
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0:38:49they've really worked hard to sort of
0:38:51put a lot of information on the screen
0:38:53without making it look cluttered it's
0:38:55very very beautiful too they have this
0:38:58thing they call the app score now this
0:39:00is their equivalent of something like
0:39:01the rotten tomatoes meter for apps it's
0:39:05a daily rank of dozens of parameters on
0:39:07apps from and and from outside the app
0:39:10store like independent review sites they
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0:39:19store only shows good apps they don't
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0:39:30you tell abs fire what type of stuff
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0:39:41weather app junkie
0:39:44discovery shouldn't be the same fruit
0:39:47for every user it should be based on
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0:39:51what--that's fire let you do the app
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0:39:59they've already shown me the beta of
0:40:01their next version is going to be
0:40:02submitted to the store soon even better
0:40:04than before the app is it stands right
0:40:06now is all those things free universal
0:40:08retina ready all the features i've
0:40:12talked about it but the new version is
0:40:13even better and they've really really
0:40:15worked on performance it's even faster
0:40:17super super fast and the other thing
0:40:19best of all their repeat sponsor of the
0:40:22talk show
0:40:23it's a free app it's a great service and
0:40:26there's no reason that everybody out
0:40:28there should go and download apps fire
0:40:30right now for your iPad your iPhone your
0:40:33ipod touch you can get more information
0:40:35at apps fire dot-com a PPS fi re dot-com
0:40:41or just go to the app store and search
0:40:43for apps fire and check them out last
0:40:50week I went to the point to the
0:40:52Microsoft Windows 8 event
0:40:53mom you did I didn't know that yeah I
0:40:55hope I came in on a red-eye from the
0:40:57west coast after the apple thing and
0:40:58after being in LA to record last week's
0:41:00the talk show
0:41:01uh-huh but i was so happy that they
0:41:05invited me and I really didn't want to
0:41:07miss it because i really wanted to see
0:41:09it and I'm really am glad that I went I
0:41:11haven't been to a microsoft event before
0:41:13so before you get into that let me let
0:41:16me bring up something here because it's
0:41:18fascinating that that you that they
0:41:21invited you
0:41:21I've heard specifically now from a few
0:41:23different people that they do not want
0:41:26me to have a surface
0:41:28um and I've heard that from internally
0:41:30within the company like their advocate
0:41:32you have friends there and stuff we're
0:41:33trying to see if I could do it just you
0:41:35know either door viewer just play around
0:41:37with it whatever and they do not want me
0:41:40to have one and I don't know if that
0:41:42speaks to the fact that obviously they
0:41:44think i'm going to be biased in some way
0:41:46shape or form but I mean they should
0:41:50understand that if i take a shit on it
0:41:53and then it ends up being a good device
0:41:54I look like an ass
0:41:55exactly thats really everybody doesn't
0:41:57seem too
0:41:58get right and it's I have to be honest
0:42:00about it so I don't know what they're
0:42:02afraid of or whatever it is and I've had
0:42:06a fine relationship with Microsoft in
0:42:07the past they just seemed to not want me
0:42:10to have this device I just saw the same
0:42:13thing with harry mccracken review of the
0:42:15ipad mini 4 time and somebody in the
0:42:17comments or on Twitter was like wow what
0:42:19a surprise another positive review of an
0:42:21apple device and time five in a row and
0:42:24and McRae's responses will look at those
0:42:27five devices are in hindsight are they
0:42:29good devices i think i'm actually think
0:42:31that you know I've done a good job i've
0:42:33called it is you know accurately these
0:42:35have been great device it's so
0:42:36ridiculous right and into Google's
0:42:39credit they're great at this like they
0:42:40know that I'm not the biggest android
0:42:42fan in the world but they still sent me
0:42:44all these units to try it try out see
0:42:46what I think about it and you know they
0:42:49seem to appreciate at least my take on
0:42:51it whether or not they agree with it
0:42:53home and your your nexus 7 review was
0:42:55actually very very positive and unite
0:42:57active is going to be right right yeah
0:43:00so I don't know
0:43:02yeah so it's good to hear that Microsoft
0:43:03invited you to the event that they're
0:43:05not blackballing all of us if they are
0:43:06black by me i don't know i I've heard
0:43:08this a couple times now to believe it to
0:43:10be true but on this edition they should
0:43:12reread what you write and well like when
0:43:14I say if they think I'm fair they should
0:43:16i think they should have a similar
0:43:17opinion of you honestly
0:43:19well anyway it sounds it easily I don't
0:43:21know he's a fan of daring fireball but
0:43:22at least that sandusky read it and and
0:43:24respects it yeah uh it was so i want to
0:43:28write about it but like that and i'm
0:43:30kinda it's kinda off the clay but it's
0:43:32just been such a busy week that I
0:43:34haven't gotten around to it yet but just
0:43:35off the cuff that the gist of it was so
0:43:37interesting to me because it was except
0:43:40everyone just think about it from a PR
0:43:42standpoint of a product marketing
0:43:43standpoint what a tough position
0:43:45neighbor in where they wanted to in vail
0:43:47two things they wanted to unveil the new
0:43:49operating system which is for all these
0:43:51ecosystem partners and they want to do
0:43:53unveiled their own surface device which
0:43:57competes with those partners like how do
0:43:59you do that and one of that right and so
0:44:02with the weight without having to events
0:44:04the same day that's that's what I found
0:44:07so interesting
0:44:08the morning was like a reverse apple
0:44:11event ten o'clock the doors open you
0:44:13come in and you do your registration and
0:44:16the first thing you have is a big hands
0:44:18on area with all of these devices from
0:44:21acer and asus and samsung and HP and
0:44:25dell think paso you you try them out
0:44:30before they talk about the first thing
0:44:31you do is come in and add you know is a
0:44:33nice to not bigger in a coffee and juice
0:44:36and stuff like that but all these hands
0:44:37on things and and you know just anything
0:44:40that was ready on day one was there and
0:44:42very few desktops there was like one or
0:44:44two
0:44:45I'm a Kish ask all-in-one desktops but
0:44:48almost entirely tablets and convertible
0:44:55tablets you know any any way that you
0:44:56can imagine that there's a way to secure
0:44:59a touchscreen tablet to a keyboard dock
0:45:02type thing
0:45:04there's one that was there i mean
0:45:06everyone I can't even I was saying I was
0:45:08walking around with Clinton Morris from
0:45:09Fox and we were seriously trying to
0:45:11think of what else could there even
0:45:12conceivably be you know one's that snap
0:45:14together there were ones that had is so
0:45:17awkward to me there's like a frame like
0:45:20think of a window frame and it connects
0:45:23in the middle so use pivot it it like
0:45:26spins around so you can close it back up
0:45:29with the keyboard and the keyboard is
0:45:31there underneath it but the screen is
0:45:33now facing up
0:45:34you don't understand i mean like imagine
0:45:36the last hour of yeah I don't think that
0:45:39one's I forget who made that 1i i want i
0:45:40think is DOA I mean it's really weird
0:45:43but anyway
0:45:45first you have the hands-on then about
0:45:47an hour in they had the big keynote and
0:45:50you know and it was kind of again
0:45:52opposite of Apple where they had nothing
0:45:53new to announce because that's just the
0:45:56net and that's not a fault that's just
0:45:58the nature of being a provider of us
0:46:02os/2 these partners they had to have
0:46:04announced everything in advance
0:46:05otherwise there'd be no one who did it
0:46:07wouldn't be any hardware available so
0:46:08they just it was just a way of
0:46:09reiterating what Windows 8 is all about
0:46:11and they talked about what it does and
0:46:15then they started talking about here is
0:46:17some of the great devices that are here
0:46:19today and
0:46:19you know one by one you know started
0:46:21showing them and showing what's
0:46:22interesting about this one about that
0:46:24one and then at the very end they did
0:46:26they see you know they got two and now
0:46:28you know finally you know for the first
0:46:30time we have windows running on arm
0:46:32systems and here's to great ones and it
0:46:34was one from asus and one from microsoft
0:46:37microsoft surface so they didn't even in
0:46:40that first event didn't even hold the
0:46:41surface up unlike a slide on screen or
0:46:44on stage by itself once they did it
0:46:47alongside that thing from Asus shared
0:46:50the stage an embalmer came out and and
0:46:53did his thing and and then that was it
0:46:56and then we broke for lunch so it was
0:46:59hands-on first then the keynote then we
0:47:02broke for lunch and after lunch
0:47:04it was like a Stoli separate event it
0:47:07was the same press invitations it wasn't
0:47:08yet you know i had to have a separate
0:47:10invitation but they had a second keynote
0:47:11that was first and i even did it in a
0:47:15different room that had this whole big
0:47:17Pere in New York and they even did the
0:47:19keynote in a different room that was a
0:47:20little bit smaller and this time it was
0:47:22mostly Sinofsky and it was all about
0:47:24surface so that's that almost it sounds
0:47:28like okay we're putting the kids to bed
0:47:29and now the parents are going to talk
0:47:31yeah that's yeah totally exactly yeah we
0:47:34put the kids event now it's now it's
0:47:36serious and then we got out of that
0:47:37keynote then they'd opened up a separate
0:47:39different hands-on area that had nothing
0:47:41but surfaces and plenty of them and as
0:47:45many I mean like they were they had I
0:47:48think if anything they had more keyboard
0:47:50covers than surfaces because I guess
0:47:51they wanted you to be able to try both
0:47:54uh-huh so they did not i do not have one
0:47:57they did not get one as I can review
0:47:59unit but i had spent at least I don't
0:48:01know in our plan with it so initial
0:48:04thoughts without spoiling a any anything
0:48:06going to write about it what would you
0:48:08actually think of it it's it is not
0:48:15designed for me sorry really tried to
0:48:17see I'm trying to keep an open mind
0:48:19about it though but I you know it's not
0:48:21bad and and it's good in some of the
0:48:23ways that Microsoft has always been good
0:48:25where it's a lot of it does feel very
0:48:28snappy and that the touch seems really
0:48:31good
0:48:32in a way that you know a lot of android
0:48:34stuff hasn't you know and in terms of
0:48:35tracking your finger and scrolling
0:48:37smoothly him but the exactly when in you
0:48:42know and this is what I thought and and
0:48:43you know is it my prejudice which would
0:48:47presupposition you know my bias before I
0:48:50came in my bias from the last eight
0:48:52months ever since they announced it is
0:48:54it just me reinforcing it or is it
0:48:56really the truth but it really felt like
0:48:58it as i used it which is this that the
0:49:00desktop the whole idea of having the
0:49:02desktop mode there it just sticks out
0:49:04like a sore thumb and I know that
0:49:07they're not letting anybody add you
0:49:09can't have third-party desktop apps
0:49:12right it's only the ones that are built
0:49:15in which is explorer ie which to me is
0:49:20really crazy that there's IE in metro
0:49:23and I that area and the office suite
0:49:27then introduced it none of that really
0:49:29seemed to perform well and it's not even
0:49:31just about like that the touch targets
0:49:33are small in office they actually you
0:49:36know like they've said they've done a
0:49:38pretty good job you know and i would
0:49:40have to say that a lot of the touch
0:49:42targets in office on the surface are at
0:49:45least as big as the touch targets in for
0:49:48example I photo for the ipad and iphone
0:49:52yet which has a lot of little finicky
0:49:54controls along the bottom but it really
0:49:57kind of felt like me though it just felt
0:49:59like when you're in that desktop mode it
0:50:00kind of felt like when you're at a kiosk
0:50:02in a museum and they know that they're
0:50:04just running some piece of craft ice
0:50:06cream thing you ever see that like I
0:50:08know there's some airlines a couple of
0:50:09the airline's like when you check in
0:50:11with their touch screen like when you do
0:50:12things you actually see the white
0:50:14windows arrow cursor appear right right
0:50:17yep
0:50:17russ played second before it uh it
0:50:19actually clicks through yep it you don't
0:50:21see that when you're using the
0:50:22touchscreen on the surface but it all it
0:50:24does kind of feel like that in the
0:50:26desktop not when you're using the native
0:50:28Metro apps but it just so walk
0:50:30why do you think they did because like
0:50:32this is the most confounding thing to me
0:50:35like I think i have my own thoughts on
0:50:38the surface without having played with
0:50:40that i think it's it's it's strange how
0:50:43much of the emphasis they're putting on
0:50:44the keyboard of it's just
0:50:46you know it's the same thing as a laptop
0:50:47essentially but i think that the real
0:50:51problem that Microsoft will have is this
0:50:54this weird dichotomy between the don't
0:50:57call it metro metro interface and the
0:50:59old-school interface and I don't know
0:51:01why
0:51:02well i dunno why there's no compromise
0:51:04right and quote unquote no compromise as
0:51:06to why they they merge the two together
0:51:08but how do people not understand because
0:51:11every review that I've read about it now
0:51:13is saying the same thing that you're
0:51:14saying like just the there's two big of
0:51:17a leap between the two of them so how in
0:51:19the years leading up to this development
0:51:21of this and just in the months leading
0:51:23up to the release of it
0:51:24how do people inside Microsoft who are
0:51:26playing with this thing day in and day
0:51:27out realize that they just shouldn't
0:51:29release that part of it just like either
0:51:32bring it on later postponed do something
0:51:35but like if it's just not up to par why
0:51:38are they doing that is it is it because
0:51:40they couldn't get office nailed for
0:51:43surface for Windows RT in particular I
0:51:46mean is that it really don't know i
0:51:48guess so i guess that's the idea i'm the
0:51:50only thing I can think of is that they
0:51:52didn't have time to do a true pure metro
0:51:56i'm just going to keep calling metro
0:51:57because it's such a convenient during a
0:52:00Purim metro office thing that's
0:52:02compatible which is that that
0:52:05compatibility across you know if
0:52:06everybody's on the same version of
0:52:08office than these files will just work
0:52:10that they couldn't do that and that this
0:52:12was what they had to do and they didn't
0:52:14think they could sell a product without
0:52:16office you know whether it's really
0:52:18based on actual market research and
0:52:20people wouldn't buy it or it's just
0:52:21their internal bias that you know
0:52:24windows and office forever
0:52:25I don't know but I do feel like I feel
0:52:29like as long as you've started with this
0:52:31at this starting point of we're going to
0:52:34do two surfaces and Intel one and an arm
0:52:37one and let's just concede for the sake
0:52:39of argument right now that that's a good
0:52:41idea
0:52:42I don't know everyone will see how it
0:52:43plans out but let if you start with that
0:52:45idea though
0:52:46then why not take the liberty of saying
0:52:50with the arm one were only going to do
0:52:52metro even if it doesn't have office to
0:52:54start because if all right hey we hear
0:52:57you if office is your thing
0:52:58bye
0:52:59this one the pro one yes exactly that's
0:53:02exactly right and that's so obvious and
0:53:03how why did they not do that I just it's
0:53:07very perplexing I don't rightly don't
0:53:09understand we hear you we know you love
0:53:11office we are we have all sorts of ideas
0:53:13for the future of office and we could
0:53:15not be working harder on it we have
0:53:17great stuff coming next year and the
0:53:18year after forearm but right now if if
0:53:21if office is a deal-breaker for you and
0:53:24we hear you we know that's why you
0:53:26didn't buy other competing tablets but
0:53:28here's the one you want this one and
0:53:29it's an intel-based system you know and
0:53:32it'll run officers you know i I just I
0:53:35don't know it does stick out a little
0:53:37bit
0:53:38the other thing i noticed was that the
0:53:40browser and then again this is something
0:53:43i had this was my my guests coming in
0:53:46and it's backed up by using him i used a
0:53:50lot of the browser and the hands-on area
0:53:52is it's just it like WebKit has passed
0:53:56IE it is you know if what are they even
0:54:00using what are what do they use this
0:54:02like it's some sort of you know that
0:54:04they've done with the IE rendering
0:54:06engine what Apple's done with WebKit is
0:54:08make a mobile touch version of it and
0:54:11it's not bad it is
0:54:13you know you know you can click and
0:54:15scroll but it's it's just not WebKit it
0:54:20reminds me of being a Mac user back in
0:54:24like 1999 2000 2001 when you know there
0:54:28are all sorts of reasons why stuck with
0:54:29the mac and i still thought the max
0:54:30brother better in many ways but web
0:54:33browsing clearly was not one that you
0:54:35were at second class citizen on the web
0:54:37even will wherever your favorite MAC web
0:54:39browser was you were not getting the
0:54:42fastest the highest fidelity rendering
0:54:44and that's what it feels like on surface
0:54:46like the big 12 me was I wanted to open
0:54:52something in a new tab so I saw a link
0:54:54to open an attachment that well what how
0:54:56do i do that and what's got to be tap
0:54:58and hold so I tapped him held and then
0:55:00nothing happened and I thought I don't
0:55:02know what to do and we just couldn't fit
0:55:05me in clayton moore so we just couldn't
0:55:06figure it out and then we asked a guy he
0:55:08said you just tap and hold we just
0:55:10weren't holding long
0:55:11enough and it just was like the amount
0:55:13of time you have to hold seems too long
0:55:16and there's a weird i don't know it's
0:55:18almost like a mode switch I don't know
0:55:20it's just the feel of it is off it just
0:55:22like you have to hold your finger there
0:55:23way too long to get that context menu up
0:55:26and then once you do it you can open a
0:55:28new tab and what about a third party
0:55:31apps were there any on on the one you
0:55:33played with i'm trying to think I try to
0:55:38think what counts as third-party they
0:55:40had the new skype but that's not third
0:55:42party because that's micros right now
0:55:44oh yeah they did have some third-party
0:55:45stuff they had like some media stuff
0:55:47they had like a new york times app I
0:55:51yeah they had to contend and I think it
0:55:53was a lot of media stuff too and this
0:55:54weird stuff to where they're just not as
0:55:56polished example so they had pre-loaded
0:55:58on it was the kindle app yeah they did a
0:56:00third party apps they had the kindle app
0:56:01pre-loaded but no books I that's kind of
0:56:07funny
0:56:08yeah but you know and that meant that we
0:56:10can I mean I'm not gonna put my right
0:56:12I'm not gonna log in with my amazon
0:56:13credentials on the demo unit on area
0:56:16right only get a certain number of
0:56:18devices ya and I'm not gonna lock one up
0:56:20on this but it just seems like a weird
0:56:21thing like this funny now and I got sure
0:56:24the i'm sure the menus on that can
0:56:26deliver great though they were you could
0:56:28just you could just tell how much work
0:56:30was put into those those a those menus
0:56:32no you couldn't see an actual book and
0:56:34you know the new york times app looked
0:56:38good it didn't look it wasn't quite as
0:56:40good as the the ipad one and it didn't
0:56:44have custom fonts like the ipad 1 which
0:56:47really brands that ipad new york times
0:56:50app is very new york times e because it
0:56:52shares the same font as the print
0:56:53edition Ron but it was it was nicer than
0:56:57reading the near it was you know just
0:56:59like with the you know what apps should
0:57:01be it was nicer than reading the New
0:57:03York Times in a web browser so what did
0:57:06you think of the keyboards that I I i
0:57:11just cannot i can't judge the touch one
0:57:14because it's is I'm just going to say
0:57:15that i didn't spend enough time but in
0:57:17the time that i did spend on it my
0:57:18typing was horrendous
0:57:19i typed way worse i typed fine on the
0:57:22on-screen keep so i tried three
0:57:24keyboards
0:57:25by the touch cover keyboard the one
0:57:28that's like magic capacitive hardware
0:57:30keyboard I tied the actual classic
0:57:33clicky keyboard cover and add the
0:57:36on-screen keyboard the on-screen
0:57:37keyboard was great i would say it was on
0:57:40par with ipad you know for on screen
0:57:42typing and in a way that all of the
0:57:45muscle memory I have from typing on an
0:57:47iPad carried right over and it was you
0:57:51know it was good i think windows phone
0:57:53has a good on-screen keyboard
0:57:55yeah and when i've used Windows Phone
0:57:57it's you know it has been very very
0:57:58friendly to my iphone i visualized
0:58:02thumbs so that's good i think that's
0:58:04when the clicky keyboard really nice i
0:58:07think i think that you did you know
0:58:09something like that you could sell for
0:58:10the ipad would be a huge hit it is seems
0:58:14like a very nice compromise between
0:58:16making it thick enough that the keys can
0:58:18actually move a little and keeping it
0:58:20thin enough that it's not making your
0:58:22tablet you know as thick as a notebook
0:58:23is it uh have you have used the logitech
0:58:2714 logic than one for the ipad yes I in
0:58:30fact i did at I know you're a huge fan
0:58:32of that I got to use it at singleton and
0:58:34I'm drawing a blank on who the kind of
0:58:37is a well who r idea is a regular
0:58:39listener the talk show and I'm drawing a
0:58:41blank on your name but thank you for
0:58:42letting me try it and yeah it's nice its
0:58:44equivalent to that but it's a slicker
0:58:46it's a slicker integration with the way
0:58:48that you know that the microsoft one is
0:58:50magnetizes and you don't know you go
0:58:52through bluetooth pairing or anything
0:58:53like that
0:58:54ok that it's nice and what about the the
0:58:56thing at the but like it has the touch
0:58:57element at the bottom-right the trackpad
0:58:59stuff
0:59:00yeah when you have it on you get a mouse
0:59:02cursor on screen mouse cursor just
0:59:04appears on screen when it's connected
0:59:05and and you know you have a trackpad I
0:59:08thought the one on the the clicky
0:59:10keyboard cover worked better than the
0:59:11one on the touch one I thought the touch
0:59:13when it was I thought I don't know to me
0:59:15it's a funny demo but it really doesn't
0:59:17seem like a good product
0:59:19I just wasn't good for typing for me but
0:59:21maybe if you're used to it you maybe if
0:59:23you give it a long time you get used to
0:59:25it but am i right in thinking that you
0:59:27still can't rest your hands on the keys
0:59:29your fingers on the keys with the touch
0:59:31one itsy
0:59:34I ran into some problems with that it's
0:59:36it's definitely not that you can't you
0:59:38know you can do it and sometimes it just
0:59:41sometimes it would register touches and
0:59:42sometimes it wouldn't and I think you're
0:59:45supposed to be able to rest your fingers
0:59:46on it but I was definitely running into
0:59:49problems and I was absolutely missing
0:59:51like the big problem I was having it's
0:59:52just missing letters and the other thing
0:59:55too
0:59:56here's the big thing for me is that
0:59:56here's the big thing for me is that
1:00:00typing on the keyboard one is exactly
1:00:02what you think you're just typing on it
1:00:03you know a relatively small but like
1:00:06ipad style clicky keyboard and i did
1:00:08just fine
1:00:10typing on the actual screen just like
1:00:13with iOS and like Windows Phone it does
1:00:16a lot of auto correction work as your
1:00:18type in and it's always trying to make
1:00:21suggestions and it's using a dictionary
1:00:23and it's doing a really smart job and
1:00:25there's an animation when it does when
1:00:27it in you know sees that i spelled you
1:00:31know sigler sigl ER it knows that you're
1:00:35in my contact dictionary and takes a
1:00:37guess that i wanted i wanted to put an
1:00:39extra in there to get your name right
1:00:40and you see a little animation nice nice
1:00:42the thing that i found was using the
1:00:44touch keyboard the touch cover keyboard
1:00:47it treats it like a hardware keyboard
1:00:51where it's not in that aggressive auto
1:00:53correct mode and I really needed it to
1:00:55be like I was you know i would type the
1:00:57new year
1:00:58I wouldn't be teenagers I would just get
1:01:00th and the e wasn't even there
1:01:02ah that's an interesting point because
1:01:05that seems like it makes some sense
1:01:08because the touch keyboard is
1:01:10essentially a soft keyboard like you
1:01:14would find on a screen but they've made
1:01:16it of an actual tangible product and
1:01:20it's right in between a fit the actual
1:01:22physical keyboard and the the soft yeah
1:01:25we're on screen right so you think they
1:01:27just obviously decided to go with it
1:01:28being more like the the nice actual
1:01:31keyboard rather than the on-screen one
1:01:33but they should have probably done it
1:01:34more like the on-screen with software
1:01:36exactly that is a perfect encapsulation
1:01:38when I was trying to say and maybe they
1:01:40can fix that and software maybe it you
1:01:41know they can just sort of switch to
1:01:43that mode and get into that and there is
1:01:45a clear advantage to that if they could
1:01:47get it to work out which is that when
1:01:49you're using an on-screen keyboard on a
1:01:51tablet half the screen is covered by the
1:01:53keyboard whereas you for using the
1:01:55softcover you know you have the whole
1:01:56screen available
1:01:57you got it really needs that I think it
1:02:00needs to be treated software-wise like a
1:02:01software keyboard where we're going to
1:02:03guess that you're going to make a lot of
1:02:04mistakes and you know even the logitech
1:02:07one with ios6 now they do the the
1:02:10autocorrection element in this
1:02:1342 even with physical keyboard and its
1:02:15really nice I mean you know you're not
1:02:16gonna make it nearly as many typing
1:02:18mistakes
1:02:18yeah using the physical keyboard but
1:02:20they still do the software on aspect
1:02:22yeah I'm actually not sure why they
1:02:23don't why they do turn that off for the
1:02:25keyboard i guess the ideas i don't know
1:02:28i guess that if you're annoyed you know
1:02:29if you really are typing something you
1:02:31want to be precise that autocorrect is
1:02:33I'm gonna work you know if you're typing
1:02:34code or something like that
1:02:35I'm I don't know existed but it didn't
1:02:39it didn't it i don't know i wouldn't go
1:02:41after Justin a half an hour if I were
1:02:43going to buy 1i would get the clicky
1:02:45keyboard and that's and it's expensive
1:02:49right it's like a hundred and sometimes
1:02:51yeah but it's not that much more
1:02:52expensive than the touch one the touch
1:02:53one day expensive you know and it just
1:02:56seems like another case of Microsoft not
1:02:58making a decision for you but letting
1:03:00you make the decision to close to
1:03:02telling you what's best
1:03:03all right letting you figure out what's
1:03:05best and Iran date have with the with
1:03:07the pricing right the cheapest one does
1:03:09not come with a keyboard at all but then
1:03:10i have bundles that start coming with
1:03:12them right right but it's the touch one
1:03:14I believe
1:03:15yeah i think so i think they're they
1:03:17seem to be kind of pushing the touch one
1:03:19and i kind of i am in my experience
1:03:22tinkering around with an hour i think
1:03:23they're going the wrong way on that I
1:03:25feel like if you want to keyboard and
1:03:26you're going to buy an expensive cover
1:03:29that you know relatively expensive cover
1:03:30that combines the cover with the
1:03:33keyboard
1:03:34I don't know I feel like if you're that
1:03:36into typing you want that clicky
1:03:37one-armed I never let her definitely
1:03:41makes a better first impression because
1:03:43anybody goes into one of these microsoft
1:03:44stores to buy one is not if you're going
1:03:46to spend last time with it than I did
1:03:47and it is you know if I didn't do that
1:03:50well on the touch cover typing I don't
1:03:53see how a typical consumer would compare
1:03:55to the clicky 1i have heard good things
1:03:58about the kickstand itself and how much
1:04:02you played with that yeah it's just it
1:04:04seems good it's there the old one and
1:04:05only hit and I and it was funny because
1:04:07I thought it and I just other people
1:04:10coming out it just seemed like everybody
1:04:11was saying the same thing was that and
1:04:14it seems like one of those things that
1:04:15the strikes through the first five
1:04:16minutes to use it and maybe once you
1:04:18know then you get used to it it's not a
1:04:19problem but there's only a little little
1:04:21tick mark for your like fingernail to go
1:04:24into separate it it's only on the one
1:04:26side
1:04:26it ok so if you go to the 1i think it's
1:04:29you know if you're facing the screen
1:04:30it's on the right i think behind it and
1:04:33it's really easy just kind of stick your
1:04:34thumb nail in there and give it a little
1:04:36little flick and it just pops right out
1:04:37and if you go to the other side it's
1:04:39like you can't get it open but I think
1:04:41once you realize that you go to this
1:04:43side to do it would and you know it is
1:04:45it absolutely does feel very
1:04:47well-crafted and it feels like something
1:04:49that is built to last that if he buy one
1:04:51and use it all the time eight months
1:04:53from now the kickstand is still gonna
1:04:54click open and click shut and stay shut
1:04:57its yeah it does seem that you know
1:04:58seems good
1:04:59what about the hardware itself that i've
1:05:02heard mixed reviews of people who played
1:05:04with that of this like they say the the
1:05:06quality of the build is nice but it's
1:05:08too bulky is that is that fair do you
1:05:10think it's hard to say because I was
1:05:13already three days into using my ipad
1:05:15mini trip right what did feel exact
1:05:18opposite of writing felt a little heavy
1:05:20but it felt roughly ipad shaped I i
1:05:24guess the other thing that really struck
1:05:25me i had built quality was good and you
1:05:27know Intendant maybe not quite well i
1:05:31would say definitely not quite Apple
1:05:32quality it doesn't seem like that
1:05:35magnesium whatever they call it it does
1:05:38take that actually i think it's called
1:05:39yeah they ripped you off edge I
1:05:41definitely send you one they ripped off
1:05:43in here i'm marco wrote this when his
1:05:46store impressions is it feels like super
1:05:48nice plastic it is technically a metal
1:05:51but it feels like really good plastic
1:05:52and that's not even necessarily bad i
1:05:54love the polycarbonate plastic whatever
1:05:58they call it that Nokia is using on the
1:05:59Lumias it's really really high quality
1:06:01stuff i wouldn't be surprised if someday
1:06:03Apple you know put out a thing that uses
1:06:06something that is technically a plastic
1:06:08and plastic doesn't necessarily mean
1:06:09junkie right but it's you know it's just
1:06:13not maybe not quite as nice
1:06:16Marco also had the comment and i agree
1:06:18with that were by putting all these
1:06:19extra ports on it it it jumps up the
1:06:23feel of it it makes it right it has a
1:06:25u.s. USB poor SD cards if yeah I think
1:06:28it does
1:06:29yeah yeah yeah you know Apple obviously
1:06:32they actually made a point with this
1:06:34with this this latest revision to the to
1:06:36the regular ipad right that they now
1:06:38have even more peripherals to be able to
1:06:40they actually gave me a few of them to
1:06:43debt to test out like an SD card reader
1:06:46the Lightning to SD card reader
1:06:47lightning to USB you know that's that's
1:06:50a little bit of the of annoyance if
1:06:52you're going to use I guess an SD card
1:06:55reader USB all the time but how often
1:06:57are you
1:06:57I mean I never use any of that stuff
1:06:59with the ipad so I don't know it just
1:07:03seems like a little but it's you know
1:07:04that's what maybe that's what appeals to
1:07:06the people who don't want to buy an ipad
1:07:08those they want to ensure even if they
1:07:10aren't going to end up using it they
1:07:11wanted their other thing that really
1:07:13struck me is it always strikes me when I
1:07:16use a 69 tablet is that it seems like it
1:07:20only ever wants to be used in landscape
1:07:23holding it in portrait just seems so
1:07:25yeah it looks weird it looks with from
1:07:29the the pictures I've seen it looks like
1:07:31it's it's like almost top-heavy that
1:07:34you're going you know you need to you're
1:07:35like it getting ready to ride on a
1:07:37surfboard and it just looks like a
1:07:39really weird format to read something
1:07:40like a magazine or a book where I always
1:07:43hold it on my iPad hold it in portrait
1:07:45and it just seems like you're so off
1:07:46from the proportions of a regular piece
1:07:48of paper or book that it just seems way
1:07:51too skinny and you know look at the way
1:07:54you know that's got this built-in
1:07:55kickstand that only works in one right
1:07:58right
1:07:59it just seems like it wants to be held
1:08:01that way as opposed to the ipad sort of
1:08:04i don't even care if you hold it upside
1:08:05down sort of at ambivalence towards how
1:08:09you hold it
1:08:10that was the other thing that's that
1:08:12struck me about the surface
1:08:14I know you got to assume but i do i'm
1:08:19going to have one more thing I want to
1:08:20talk about forestall stuff but before I
1:08:21sure let me do my the second sponsor and
1:08:24super excited that to have this app on
1:08:26board it's check the weather check the
1:08:31weather app for your iphone yet I don't
1:08:33know
1:08:34oh man this is I i recommend i recommend
1:08:37this weather at blonde before it became
1:08:40a sponsor the show as soon as I saw it I
1:08:42fell in love with it the guy behind
1:08:45David Smith
1:08:47as a longtime listener and fan of the
1:08:49talk show and the way he he describes
1:08:53the apt to me is just perfect he's he's
1:08:55got five points he wants to make clear
1:08:57accurate fast beautiful layered and it's
1:09:02all of those things you look at it and I
1:09:04gotta snap you know what's going on
1:09:07where you are you have detailed hourly
1:09:10forecast information for what's going to
1:09:12want go on the rest of the day and you
1:09:14have a nice little overview of what's
1:09:17going to go on in the next few days and
1:09:20the other thing that he wanted to solve
1:09:23by making this app is to stop having to
1:09:28check more than one app just to sort of
1:09:30get the gist of what you want to know
1:09:32about the weather and the big one with
1:09:33that is dark sky which is the app that
1:09:36lets you see a is it going to rain the
1:09:38next hour or so and so how much how
1:09:41strong and what you know what's the the
1:09:44precipitation radar map look like
1:09:47so here's the best news about that the
1:09:50guys at dark sky in addition to making a
1:09:53very good app they have an API that
1:09:56other apps can subscribe to and that's
1:09:58what check the weather uses so you open
1:10:00the app you've got what's going on if
1:10:02you want to do a sort of dark sky Taipei
1:10:05is it gonna rain soon and what's the
1:10:06what's the radar look like you just
1:10:09swipe up from the bottom and you've got
1:10:12a detailed precipitation forecast
1:10:14near-term precipitation forecasts and
1:10:17you've got a beautiful weather map which
1:10:22i happen to like a lot better than the
1:10:24dark sky maps because the colors in the
1:10:26dark sky map I can't tell the difference
1:10:28between water and precipitation in the
1:10:31air it's just beautiful one of the other
1:10:36things it's beautiful out this app and
1:10:38love the typography really really
1:10:40opinionated strong bold typography using
1:10:42a great font idlewild from from our
1:10:46friends at half learn for Jones if it's
1:10:49not to your liking the version 1.1 added
1:10:51options to use future or helvetica they
1:10:54look great too
1:10:55and even better version 1.2 coming soon
1:11:00submitted not yet available in the App
1:11:03Store as i speak but i've been using the
1:11:07beta and it's just great is a universal
1:11:10app for the iphone and the ipad this is
1:11:13my favorite weather app I used it all
1:11:16last week during the whole hurricane
1:11:18sandy thing I was opening this app I
1:11:20don't know every 20-30 minutes and it
1:11:22was just great i get it in the app store
1:11:25you can check out get more information
1:11:27at check the weather dot co that's dot
1:11:31co not comm check the weather dot co /
1:11:35the talk show
1:11:37let's check the weather dot co / the
1:11:40talk show or just search the appstore
1:11:42for check the weather by this app and
1:11:45support the talk show and support great
1:11:47great individual and independent app
1:11:49developers so again check the weather
1:11:52dot co / the talk show and again putting
1:11:56the done they're just shows you that
1:11:57this is this is that a developer who
1:11:59knows the show knows that I paid for
1:12:02that doesn't want it used to check them
1:12:04out and thank them very much I thank
1:12:05them very much by this app and help
1:12:07support the talkshow best way you can
1:12:08support the talk show by this app so
1:12:13forestall and then we'll get we'll get
1:12:15out here right so this is this is big
1:12:19bombshell were you surprised i will say
1:12:22that i was not armed
1:12:25I was surprised at the timing of it but
1:12:27I was not surprised overall just
1:12:29everything that I've heard in the past
1:12:31year or so has been that things were
1:12:35eventually going to come to this horse
1:12:38or the other way right that there needed
1:12:40to be some kind of resolution of sort of
1:12:43the internal conflicts within the within
1:12:45the company and I don't know if you read
1:12:47the thing today i think it was i did da
1:12:49all things D talking about more of the
1:12:52information of why mansfield went from
1:12:55retiring to not retiring now i'm back
1:12:57for two years
1:12:58No supposedly they are according to
1:13:00their sources and I haven't heard this
1:13:02directly but that mansfield had an
1:13:06actual real beef with forestall as well
1:13:08and he wasn't going to
1:13:09se me or him but that the fact that
1:13:11forestall is now out led to him directly
1:13:14coming back in full force
1:13:17huh yeah the way I've put it to people
1:13:20is I was surprised but not shocked you
1:13:25know and you know and and somebody on
1:13:28Twitter and pointed this out and I do
1:13:29think it's I think it may be really be
1:13:31very it sounds a little glib but i think
1:13:34it actually might be kind of insightful
1:13:36is that this might be the first major
1:13:38situation with Apple wear this wouldn't
1:13:42have happened if Steve Jobs was still
1:13:44around
1:13:45yeah right i mean they had the same they
1:13:48had the same design aesthetic taste
1:13:49right
1:13:50and obviously this was this guy from
1:13:52next they've been together for a long
1:13:54time and yeah that I never didn't get
1:13:59along with the other executives it was
1:14:01ok under steve because that's the sort
1:14:04of thing that Steve had a true genius
1:14:07for a gift
1:14:09was I making it just putting it all
1:14:13together bring you know you're all that
1:14:15matters is that you guys are all
1:14:16talented and very very smart and I will
1:14:19make this work I my personality you know
1:14:22this is the perfect of students here are
1:14:24his personality i should say is so
1:14:26strong was so strong that it could patch
1:14:29over any personality clashes from the P
1:14:32anybody under him because his own his
1:14:35personality was just so dominant and
1:14:37yeah out that there's there's just you
1:14:41know and i don't think it's an
1:14:42indictment of tim cook i think it right
1:14:45an acknowledgement again speaks to jobs
1:14:47in right that may be the worst thing
1:14:49would have been for you know again for
1:14:51Tim Cook's used to sort of credit be
1:14:53Steve Jobs and and try to think that he
1:14:55can do that same thing
1:14:57yeah and someone someone had a great
1:14:59comment this morning i think it was on
1:15:01there i started my tumblr feed actually
1:15:03but it was um it was going back in
1:15:05referencing what cook said at the
1:15:07memorial for jobs which was of course
1:15:09the line that you know don't don't think
1:15:13about don't worry about what i would do
1:15:14just do what's right and you know this
1:15:17is like the first time where cook is
1:15:19doing something that jobs would probably
1:15:22not have
1:15:22on but it is the right thing to do for
1:15:24apple in the current state of apple
1:15:26right maybe a better way to put it isn't
1:15:28it Steve Jobs wouldn't have done it but
1:15:29that he wouldn't have had to do it
1:15:31yes yes that is that's exactly right i
1:15:33think i mean because the thing is this
1:15:35is I mean the things that are kind of
1:15:37doesn't even seem to be any any argument
1:15:42over is that forestall was one of the
1:15:45words divisive and that he was ambitious
1:15:49and yet that he guarded his I don't want
1:15:55to be pejorative here because I honestly
1:15:56don't have the beef with the guy I was
1:15:58going to say fiefdom but I fiefdom seems
1:16:01to imply i don't want to impugn any sort
1:16:04of negative political aspirations on him
1:16:07but he did I mean he had iOS was his
1:16:09fiefdom and he ruled over it and to his
1:16:14credit you know a lot of I think there's
1:16:16been a lot of yet kind of negativity
1:16:18around him and certainly it seems like
1:16:20something that was justified but there's
1:16:23you know I mean he is the guy who made
1:16:25iOS what it is now and there's no
1:16:27disputing that that's an incredible feat
1:16:30and maybe he couldn't have done that
1:16:32without being so passionate about the
1:16:33way that he you know viewed that iOS had
1:16:36to go and jobs of course you know had
1:16:39the had the ultimate say in the matter
1:16:40but it was a you know by all accounts it
1:16:43was forced all remember when they were
1:16:44thinking about how to do the you know
1:16:46the stories that year now and everything
1:16:47about how to do the iphone they're
1:16:48considering using you know just some
1:16:50random kind of generic ipod like OS that
1:16:54wasn't at all related to that was the
1:16:56only cemented Tony Fadell side of it and
1:16:58that takes that effectively that sealed
1:17:03his fate for ya forestall and and my
1:17:05understanding of the choices for stolen
1:17:07and Bertrand sir lay on on on that side
1:17:10on the we should we can do this we can
1:17:12use OS 10 we can take the next step
1:17:15stuff and make days might you know take
1:17:18strip it down and we can use this in a
1:17:20phone and it's going to be great and if
1:17:23we get it we're going to have this great
1:17:24app development framework already there
1:17:27ready to go and it was Fidel and and I
1:17:31think maybe Rubenstein on the other side
1:17:33saying yeah she doesn't like a
1:17:35you know like an iphone effective it
1:17:37would be like the OS that they have in
1:17:38the ipod nano right right and you know
1:17:44so i definitely like you said that
1:17:45sealed Fidel's fate that you know that
1:17:47that he won and you know look at where
1:17:48Apple is from there I mean and you know
1:17:50who know I mean I you know who knows how
1:17:52many other people in that argument I
1:17:53mean to be a great story to hear some
1:17:54day from the insiders really would be
1:17:56maybe the greatest story of the last 15
1:17:59years of Apple to hear because you know
1:18:01apple before the iphone was doing just
1:18:04fine but they were not a sensation and
1:18:06apple after the iphone has become the
1:18:08biggest corporations in the world and
1:18:10write it really did seem to come down to
1:18:12a very very tough decision on Steve Jobs
1:18:16part you know and that forestall was if
1:18:19not the leading proponent one of only
1:18:21two on that side of the you know it of
1:18:25the argument and like you said the end
1:18:28of five years since I OS has been great
1:18:31it really has you nobody can take that
1:18:33away from him I mean and you know so now
1:18:36you think about going forward on what
1:18:38this means exactly and it's impossible
1:18:41to know that right now but i think that
1:18:43it i think that some of the criticism of
1:18:46iOS has been fair that they're it's been
1:18:51so much polish and polish and polish and
1:18:54they haven't really taken any risks with
1:18:56the with the operating system in the
1:18:58past few years and i think at first
1:18:59that's absolutely understandable and I
1:19:01think that's helped them in many ways
1:19:03because it is so polished now but how
1:19:06much more can you polish and how much
1:19:07more can you change ios6 you know there
1:19:10were differences of course with with iOS
1:19:125 but mainly seems like polish Polish
1:19:15polish and so now does this change that
1:19:18do we get something that's that's going
1:19:20to be the most significant departure
1:19:23since kind of the beginning of it
1:19:25yeah i think the big question mark in
1:19:27this as it goes forward I don't think
1:19:29anybody really has a problem with Johnny
1:19:31I've taking over software thi
1:19:34across-the-board I think that's super
1:19:36exciting
1:19:37I i really do think that's going to work
1:19:40out well for Apple but you don't know
1:19:41though because he hasn't done it before
1:19:43you don't know i think the ? that was
1:19:45federighi is yeah you know in charge now
1:19:48and everybody you know seems to think I
1:19:51think mountain lion turned out really
1:19:52well so I know and I think everybody
1:19:55inside the company i think is regarded
1:19:57as having successfully led that project
1:19:59now and he's I mean he's just ascended
1:20:02so quickly right he was he was just
1:20:05elevated to SVP in that last in that
1:20:07last round and now all of a sudden
1:20:09well is he gonna be able to his mac OS
1:20:1110 going to keep going forward at this
1:20:12enjoyable pace that it's been going at
1:20:14while he's also got OS to be responsible
1:20:18for because clearly you know if one's
1:20:20gonna have to slip it's still going to
1:20:21be Mac os10 of course I mean is he going
1:20:24to do what you just said which is sort
1:20:26of not just keep polishing iOS but is he
1:20:29gonna be able to make take iOS and give
1:20:31it a oh wow look with that you know sort
1:20:35of right and moving the entire the idea
1:20:39of what mobile OS four is forward also
1:20:42you know last year obviously all of us
1:20:46were surprised with OS 10 mountain lion
1:20:48because we just didn't expect it so soon
1:20:49and an apple legitimately surprised
1:20:52everyone with it
1:20:53are they still are they going to do that
1:20:54again how far into development does this
1:20:56is the iOS coming under federal change
1:20:58that and you know one question i kept
1:21:01getting was what does that mean for ios7
1:21:05you have to assume that it was already
1:21:06well into development right
1:21:09does this change knock that out i can't
1:21:13imagine that they won't do something at
1:21:15WWDC still this year right they go I
1:21:17think either got to yeah the guys who
1:21:19write well one thing and you know and
1:21:21and i'm sure people who are really
1:21:23deeply inside maybe I'm way off the base
1:21:26here but my understanding is that away a
1:21:27lot of this stuff works is that
1:21:29everybody you know is on teams and teams
1:21:31are all relatively small and have a
1:21:33relatively direct and clear chain of
1:21:35command you know that the team reports
1:21:37to somebody a manager and the manager
1:21:39probably reported directly to forestall
1:21:41if you're working on something related
1:21:44to iOS and you know if your team has
1:21:46something that's ready to ship or looks
1:21:48like it's ready to ship there's like a
1:21:50list of here's the stuff we might now
1:21:52with here's what we've got to start
1:21:53tying the line for what's going to be
1:21:54iOS 7 and there's this team and that
1:21:57team in that too
1:21:58and you know so I don't know that it's
1:22:00you know it may not really be a setback
1:22:02for you know if you're still being gone
1:22:04because it's these teams that are doing
1:22:06stuff and now it's somebody else is
1:22:07going to be making these decisions about
1:22:09this is ready for this should be ready
1:22:11let's let's green light that this for
1:22:13next year you know but here's what
1:22:14you've got to do by here's what i want
1:22:17to see by next week you know in terms of
1:22:19getting this to to where we can actually
1:22:21ship it all right you know i don't think
1:22:25you should think of it as a entire you
1:22:27know that the entire iOS is just like a
1:22:29single product or write that has to be
1:22:32and had a team of a hundred people
1:22:34working on it it's more like it's 20 30
1:22:37different little things that each have a
1:22:39team of three or four people working on
1:22:40it all right you know the biggest
1:22:45question I think that both of us have
1:22:47gotten is that is the question of our
1:22:49that is this the end of the green felt
1:22:51are they can cure if the a skeuomorphism
1:22:54stuff uh I think I have no idea it seems
1:22:59like there was that report of Johnny I
1:23:02being against it
1:23:03well force always for it only seemed
1:23:06back I I don't think I mean diseases i
1:23:10think what we will see is a minor course
1:23:13correction with regard to skeuomorphism
1:23:15I think that it's a ship that's it
1:23:19slightly off course and a little bit
1:23:21bent a little bit toward the tacky as
1:23:24opposed to the cool i do not expect to
1:23:28see a radical 180-degree reverse in that
1:23:32I don't think that they're going to drop
1:23:34all textures I don't think they're going
1:23:36to drop everything I'm you know I think
1:23:37game center is an example of one where
1:23:39the skeuomorphism is fine
1:23:41I i actually think that you know making
1:23:43it look like a game is is actually
1:23:45pretty good or pretty apt I think it's
1:23:48like ical words you know it really get
1:23:51end is in addition to the fact that it
1:23:53just it it just gets in the way it's not
1:23:55just that it's ugly but that it makes it
1:23:57look like you can do things you can't do
1:23:59because it looks like a pad of paper but
1:24:00you can't treat it like a pad of paper a
1:24:03little arrow button to go to the next
1:24:04month you know it doesn't seem like it's
1:24:06genuine and to me that's where I think
1:24:08Ivy's
1:24:10you know I can't speak for him obviously
1:24:11but everything he's ever said those
1:24:13about keeping things true and genuine to
1:24:16themselves and that's where things go
1:24:18wrong like I calton and address book or
1:24:20contacts whatever the entity called
1:24:21contacts now that's right those are apps
1:24:24with me the skeuomorphism is wrong not
1:24:26because of weather it looks good or not
1:24:28because it just seems to make the apps
1:24:29harder to use yeah
1:24:31yep and the one that people keep coming
1:24:33to now recently as the shredder via of
1:24:37the passbook thing right
1:24:38like people just seem to hate that with
1:24:40the past don't know why don't you see I
1:24:41longer to delete i guesses the gas and i
1:24:44don't know but i don't know if i would
1:24:45expect things like that to go away you
1:24:48know and for example the podcast app
1:24:50with the reel-to-reel making a rent a
1:24:52skewer morphic reel-to-reel thing isn't
1:24:55necessarily in and of itself a bad idea
1:24:56as long as usability why's it provides
1:24:59you a very effective direct way of
1:25:01skipping around the timeline of the
1:25:03podcast if it doesn't you know too bad
1:25:05it's bad it's the you it's how it works
1:25:08that matters and if if it works really
1:25:11well but looks skeuomorphic to some
1:25:14degree that's still good
1:25:15I would not expect a radical revision if
1:25:18you think that iOS 7 is going to come
1:25:20out looking like like all glass or
1:25:22something yeah you know some kind of you
1:25:24know just like windows 8 but with round
1:25:27Rex instead of shopping cart cornerbacks
1:25:30you're not it's you know I don't think
1:25:33anything radical is going to change arm
1:25:36and you know one thing you and I talked
1:25:38about briefly after the the events last
1:25:40week was the timing elements of this and
1:25:44how this all plays and obviously we
1:25:45didn't know about the the huge shake up
1:25:47from the exact time level at that at
1:25:50that point but it's sort of it makes it
1:25:52more interesting right because now Apple
1:25:54has fully aligned itself with all of its
1:25:56products to be in this this kind of fall
1:25:59q1 quarter that they're going to be
1:26:01shipping all the stuff so do they now
1:26:03take off six takeoff quote-unquote six
1:26:06months of releases and not do anything
1:26:08not even say anything again until WWDC
1:26:11because we have this new ipad now the
1:26:13fortune it seems like they're not going
1:26:15to do something it seems likely they
1:26:16won't do something in march now which
1:26:18they typically do for the ipad
1:26:20and you know it seems like TV where
1:26:22wherever that so stowaways off so you
1:26:26know maybe they do something with OS 10
1:26:28like they did last year in between but
1:26:29maybe they don't and maybe maybe that's
1:26:31good for the timing of all this exact
1:26:33shake-up stuff right because now all the
1:26:36they have some time to make sure that
1:26:38everything is a line from the top down
1:26:39and they keep working on what they've
1:26:41been working out of course but you know
1:26:43they have time just not suit so have to
1:26:45rush to get anything done
1:26:47I agree with everything you just said
1:26:48what I feel like this is in hindsight a
1:26:52remarkably perfect time for cook to
1:26:55execute this move because like it was
1:26:58said it's all the stuff is lined up now
1:27:01for this holiday quarter which is still
1:27:02disproportionately apples most important
1:27:05quarter right and you know if these guys
1:27:08have new responsibilities and it might
1:27:10take a lot of shake out they've got the
1:27:12time now to do it and I almost felt like
1:27:14it read like that in cooks statement
1:27:17about it or he's just said like what
1:27:19this has been a tremendous you know run
1:27:20for Apple we've just released the ipod
1:27:23ipad mini 4 generation I ipad i met you
1:27:27know new retina macbook new ipods iphone
1:27:315s cetera and so he just like kind of
1:27:33like we've done a lot in the past few
1:27:37months and so you know now it's time to
1:27:40kind of re-evaluate what what we've done
1:27:43where we're going and we think that
1:27:45these changes will help streamline our
1:27:48process going forward
1:27:50now i really do mean and and and talking
1:27:53to people last week that the euphemistic
1:27:56though it was the headliner that PR
1:27:57really was what it was all about this
1:27:59nikki is about increasing collaboration
1:28:00and that's really what the problem was
1:28:04deemed to be with forestall was that
1:28:05forestall did his stuff and wasn't
1:28:08collaborating with the right like I
1:28:09didn't hearing about mansfield but now
1:28:11you're saying you know I believe it
1:28:12though and that he wasn't what I heard I
1:28:14heard that like for example that four
1:28:17stalls team you know the iOS team kept
1:28:20Schiller's product marketing division in
1:28:23the dark about everything until the last
1:28:25possible minute and that there's just no
1:28:28no back and forth between Schiller's
1:28:30product marketing division
1:28:32and four stalls iOS division and that
1:28:35those two guys just did not get along
1:28:37I mean and it wasn't just like one or
1:28:39two incidents it was like institutional
1:28:42intransigence that the no.4 sales team
1:28:45just wasn't collaborating with product
1:28:47marketing
1:28:47I mean that you know collaboration is
1:28:49the word and it just wasn't there and
1:28:52you know the the other element that we
1:28:54haven't even hit on yet is of course the
1:28:55the map situation and to a lesser extent
1:28:59sirree but you know there's been issues
1:29:00with both and both were under forestall
1:29:03and now interestingly enough both aren't
1:29:05transferring under federal either going
1:29:07to any Q so they're gonna be in the you
1:29:11know more along the lines of the
1:29:12services and content division and that
1:29:15seems like the right move to make
1:29:16but you know I think that the fact that
1:29:18Apple highlighted that also in the
1:29:20release says what you needed to know and
1:29:21what of course was then reported
1:29:23afterwards that you know of course for
1:29:26starters any RQ is like The Fixer is
1:29:29they're always like the guy who takes
1:29:30like all right this here's this thing
1:29:32that's garbage
1:29:33Eddie get your boots on great because it
1:29:38and people are gave me some stuff some
1:29:40you know like commodities in charge of
1:29:42iCloud I clouds are decorated like I
1:29:44clouds actually pretty good
1:29:46and remember it really is names change
1:29:48but it really is the evolution of
1:29:50mobileme I mean he's already been using
1:29:52you know good
1:29:53yeah and he wasn't in charge you know
1:29:55that the mobileme that was the
1:29:56disastrous initial like 2008 mobileme
1:29:59and nothing to do it he was just running
1:30:00the itunes store he was given something
1:30:02that was like a probably the most famous
1:30:05disaster in the apples recent decade you
1:30:09know it
1:30:10Steve Jobs tie right in front of the
1:30:11entire company about it being you know
1:30:13this is embarrassing you know here at eq
1:30:16go fix it and he did is you know it's
1:30:18it's really you know it's gone from this
1:30:21hundred-dollar you're paid thing that
1:30:23nobody liked to a free thing with
1:30:24millions but maybe a hundred million
1:30:27users that's that's working pretty well
1:30:29so yeah yeah he's really become a fix-it
1:30:32man
1:30:33hairy man yeah take naps please and
1:30:37figure out what to do with that but uh
1:30:38there was there was actually good story
1:30:40about him too i think was yesterday and
1:30:42seen that I think it's greg sandoval
1:30:43wrote about
1:30:45and accuse relationship now I mean Q
1:30:47also is the one now it seems like doing
1:30:49these uh doing the Steve Jobs types
1:30:51meetings with the the content exact
1:30:53right and just is going to all these
1:30:55things and in playing hardball it seems
1:30:58like by all know I do think that's all I
1:31:00do think that is I think he was very
1:31:02much involved with alongside Steve Jobs
1:31:04but that right you know without Steve
1:31:06that it's down to Eddie and he's still
1:31:08doing a really good job and clearly
1:31:11leading any of apples competitors in
1:31:13terms of worldwide distribution rights
1:31:15of everything you know everything other
1:31:17than books and even more general they're
1:31:20a very nice second place to Amazon yeah
1:31:23and even with all the legal issues going
1:31:25on right now they're still you know
1:31:27still doing pretty well there are the
1:31:29Mansfield thing strikes me as
1:31:30particularly big though like you know
1:31:33obviously he was retiring and then a few
1:31:35weeks later there was the report that
1:31:37they just threw a ton of money at him to
1:31:40come back and at least you know help
1:31:41transition the hardware team or whatever
1:31:44and then now he has a completely new
1:31:46role talking about the kind of vague
1:31:49working in wireless technologies and
1:31:51also the chip side of things right so
1:31:53he's a his reputation with our company
1:31:55was stellar
1:31:56I mean is your reputation of right and
1:31:58just kicking ass and doing really good
1:32:01work that comes out on time on price you
1:32:05know yet unbelievable
1:32:07and you know and and i think the other
1:32:08thing too is not just a wireless the big
1:32:10thing is that he's also in charge of the
1:32:12semi-conductor group and I think you
1:32:14know a lot of people have written about
1:32:15it but Apple taking more and more
1:32:17ownership over the chip production of
1:32:19the systems on a chip is at every year
1:32:23now ever since they started it with the
1:32:24the I the original ipad right that was
1:32:27the first day for ya
1:32:30I ever since then the a5 was more apple
1:32:33controlled in the a4 and now the a6 is
1:32:36entirely custom apple design
1:32:38yeah you know which our friends at a
1:32:40non-tech of have done it you know 8th
1:32:43DoublePlay us job the examining and
1:32:47that's it's a huge deal and it's all
1:32:50mansfield now at least 42 years that's
1:32:53kind of interesting that he has a two
1:32:55year timeline but yeah that's good yeah
1:32:57I still think you know it's interesting
1:33:01and I do think you know my friend guy
1:33:03English said but he's written about it
1:33:06and he's you know it said that this is
1:33:07just another example of it that still
1:33:08this whole thing no shows that the
1:33:10biggest risk for Apple over the next
1:33:12five to ten years is a retention of
1:33:16talent right at the top and at the
1:33:19engineering rings and that's the other
1:33:20the other under the surface thing is how
1:33:23many people I and I know there are some
1:33:25there's no doubt about it make no
1:33:26mistake that's not like forestall was
1:33:28universally hated within Apple there are
1:33:30people who worked for for so who are
1:33:31very very loyal to him and what happens
1:33:34to them now
1:33:35like is there going to be a talent loss
1:33:37underneath him
1:33:38yeah well we'll see i mean it is it may
1:33:41depend on where he lands I mean if he if
1:33:43he gets another high-profile job and
1:33:45maybe he brings over some of his people
1:33:46with them you know that they're
1:33:47typically what tends to happen and so I
1:33:49think that but they're saying right now
1:33:51that what he's he's he's a special
1:33:54adviser just like Fidel was before him
1:33:56and he's going to be with the company
1:33:58for another year or something like that
1:34:00so right yeah all right well I want to
1:34:03thank you mgc were for being here i want
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