26: Steve Wouldn’t Eat An Energy Bar, with John Moltz
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multi had the had the article in the
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magazine i really liked that I of i say
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this with the no hyperbole but it's my
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favorite article from the magazine
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Wow five issues and I should just I
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should get off right now
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now it's pretty let's get all downhill
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from here so wait this conversation gets
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any better than that
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yeah i'm not going to spoil it but
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everybody if you don't read in the
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magazines or not because you're not
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right yeah there's some great
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there's just been some great pieces in
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there Jason snails piece this week was
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particularly good you know what I
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haven't read that yet because I yeah
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well you wait was because that's why
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that's why you think mine is better and
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why you think mines the best because i
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read yours is just don't question is is
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better i was an issue behind so I read
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the issue for and then I opened up issue
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5 and I read your piece and chuckled and
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then I opened his and I saw where it was
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going and it was real late i was like
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sleepy and I was like you know what this
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is not i'm going to read this one
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yeah little heavy but yeah yeah it's
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great stuff going on there
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ya know it's really it's like it's a
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good read every every time it comes out
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to every two weeks right
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every two weeks i believe ya and way you
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know what I guess I i have a you know I
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guess I'm just it's weird because it's
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like a big circle of my friends like
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rights you know Glenn was on the show
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two weeks ago that you're on what's his
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name has been on already
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you know the guy marker and marking on
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the show that guy huh
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I but it's you know it's just really
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good and I think it's funny how it its
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it has come out and it's a new thing and
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so what five issues two weeks so it's
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like been like 10 weeks like a month and
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i had two months two and a half months
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or so since it debuted I and it's like
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starting to settle in and you know I I
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don't think it's a hit but it's clearly
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successful it succeeded Marco is
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admitted that it's you know it's it's
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above you know like the minimum number
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of paying subscribers that he thought he
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yeah on but probably shouldn't point out
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that publishing on the ipad is dead
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right and now public
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and the ipad is dead because you know
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it's too bad it's too bad he got in
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because it's a because it just died and
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it's just there's a couple of things
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that to me make it so it is such a neat
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fit to compare and contrast with the
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daily even just starting with the names
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you know that they have this both have
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these sort of the overly generic names
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right the magnetizing the daily one of
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them is this huge 25 million dollar your
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operation from you know what most people
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many people would argue is like the most
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evil people publishing corporation in
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the world Rupert Murdoch's News Corp and
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then the other is you know tiny little
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one-man operation it equally evil but I
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you know is it to man-to-man now to now
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to announce you man yeah so closer
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inching closer to 2 News Corp right and
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I just you know it's ji I was I
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shouldn't be surprised but I was
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surprised at when the dailies demise was
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announced I guess on monday this week
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and I just how quickly so many people
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jump to the conclusion that it was proof
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that I pattern publishing is impossible
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I mean that's actually would feel
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examine you actually use the word
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impossible yeah yeah I think he's a
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little he's a little chase and about it
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to his credit he is a they noted that
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maybe he was you want too far
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yeah and you know and he's normally
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either really really a fairly reasonable
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guy right yeah it's very good
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it's really be no he-he's you know usual
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financial coverage is spot-on is one of
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my favorites I thought he covered the
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whole unfortunate fiscal collapse and
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and almost right black hole cratering of
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the entire global economy for years ago
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as well as anybody I really did I really
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felt like he was one of my go-to guys to
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like tell me what the hell's going on
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and tell me that I shouldn't just the
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action and get gold and put it in put it
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in my mattress and buy a shotgun you
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haven't done that now I did my dad's
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like I was everything ok ok you seem
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like you might do that you know you seem
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like the type it was you know I
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considered it
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yeah well it's worth thinking about I
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but yeah he really jumped to the
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ultimate conclusion that it was proof
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that its stead it's impossible and i
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think you know it's it all comes back to
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a lot of these other theories about
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disruption that that you know that like
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the whole clayton christensen which is a
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book called yeah you know the guy i
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don't know that guy and he got this look
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them up i believe I'm drawing a blank on
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facebook name is it just looks a big fan
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disruptive innovation yeah is that the
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that's not the name of the book though
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that's not the end of the book okay
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innovators dilemma
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oh yeah okay i mean i know that 1i yeah
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I haven't read it or no other yeah I've
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heard people talk about it which is all
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that's right yeah but his big theory is
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always that you know it's you know it's
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like mammals vs dinosaurs stating that
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the disruption always comes from the low
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end you know needs these great case
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examples about like what put like steel
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industry you know how to business were
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these little like places that just
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melted down junk steel and the bday
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eventually got so good at it so
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efficient added that they ended up you
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know being a better way to battle far
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cheaper way to manufacture high-quality
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steel than the traditional steel
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foundries and etcetera etcetera etcetera
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but that you're always a disruption
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always is dismissed by the entrenched
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because it looks inconsequential or
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cheaper low-end or something like that
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it and i think it seems likely that the
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eventual disruption of apple if it ever
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happens would be similar right yeah I
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from so much some corner of the
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unexpected corners and not from
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Microsoft not from google write some
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other place right some other place that
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you would never expect and that will be
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dismissed for you know possibly for good
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reasons you know right i was talking
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about this before but he was like in The
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profile of clayton christensen David's
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you know he said one of the things that
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you know he's wrong about and I love a
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guy anybody you get big points in my
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book anybody who's you know supposed to
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be a guru but talks about the times that
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they're wrong to me that's like two
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pluses right there you know in terms of
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excellent absolutely and he admits he
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was totally wrong about the iphone he
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predicted when the iphone first came out
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that it wasn't really gonna have much of
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an effect on the phone industry because
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it was a high-end product that it you
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know that that disruption was going to
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come from the low end and in hindsight
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years later he admits he was wrong
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because what he didn't understand at
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first and i think this is brilliant
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insight is that the iphone wasn't really
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a high-end phone it was a low-end
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portable computer right it's like this
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crummy little three-and-a-half inch
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screen laptop but because it's so small
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and tiny and lightweight and lasts all
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day and has wireless internet everywhere
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you go it completely disrupted the
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computer industry and the phone industry
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at the same time because you didn't need
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a phone if you had the right which is I
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think a brilliant way of looking at it
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and you know I so i'm not saying that
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Marcos the magazine is going to itself
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put that other magazines out of business
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but to me it's the exact sort of thing
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that fits in with that line of
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disruptive thinking know that it's it
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things like the magazine are where the
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future is and I can totally see how if
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you pitch that to somebody it you know
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news corporation or time or something
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like that that they would just dismiss
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it and i would say it's just some guy
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every two weeks putting out 5 750 word
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essays that's that's nothing
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you know that what would you know that
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has nothing to do with what we're trying
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to do and i would say no it has
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everything with what you're trying to do
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which in a nutshell is exactly what's
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been wrong with the traditional
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publishing industries response to the
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yep I mean it's like that's all it's the
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whole thing it's the whole thing all
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over again I mean no one's going to
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trust no instrument trusts blogs no one
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trusts independent reporters they are
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they want a big organization like like
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ours right with editors and managers and
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a whole advertising department right and
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the same way to that that most most
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traditional if you get if you just tell
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me you don't tell me the name of the the
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publication but just say this is a
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big-name publication with national
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circulation they've been around for a
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long time I is their website any good
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i'm gonna guess now right that they tend
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to most existing traditional
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publications have really bad websites
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without yeah I almost with almost
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without exception and they were
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especially bad at first like nineteen
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ninety-six ninety-seven ninety-eight
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they just didn't get it and you know I
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remember I mean and and there were big
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ideas from I even knew things things
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that weren't rooted in the past but
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which were from people rooted in the
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past like and I'm thinking of slate in
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particular right which was all staffed
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with people from traditional backgrounds
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in weekly magazines and that if I think
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it was wasn't it jointly with Microsoft
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at first yeah I think so yeah it was
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like Microsoft and when Microsoft in the
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nineties resent to trying to become like
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a media company when they when they got
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involved with NBC for MSNBC and they
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co-founded a magazine on and the thing I
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remember thinking was so weird is icon
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slate debuted is it
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it debuted it was all that was was a
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website there was no print version is
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►
just a website and yet they still had
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weekly issues and end it you would like
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be like wednesday and here's the new
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►
issue of slave come back next wednesday
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right that you get locked into this way
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of thinking and slate you know it's
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still around they're still doing good
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work but they you know they obviously
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abandoned that issue idea and it's hard
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it's really really hard when you think
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in terms of issues it's really hard to
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sort of zoom back and and think about a
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new medium right so that uh only one of
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the questions I wanted to talk to you
00:10:53
◼
►
about what which have been thinking
00:10:55
◼
►
about just the last few days because
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►
everybody keeps talking about Apple
00:10:59
◼
►
apples eventual decline right so many
00:11:03
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►
people think
00:11:04
◼
►
it's already happening for some strange
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reason that i was beyond my
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comprehension but I think about this and
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I wonder if it's going to be easier for
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us to see that or harder for people like
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us to see that you know that is a very
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good question i do think about that all
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the time I i would like to think that we
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would see it that you and I and yeah you
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◼
►
know the people who like I like to have
00:11:34
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►
OMG but i wonder i do wonder that
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whether we've got even you know that we
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think we're being i like to think that
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we would see it I can them and one of
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►
the reasons i think that is because in
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►
the past few weeks there have been a
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►
couple pieces published that are sort of
00:11:52
◼
►
thoughtful looks at things that Apple is
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►
good at and not good at and I i forget
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►
that the name of someone who who you'd
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like to just yesterday the day before
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►
but it was about apples in a bit seeming
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►
inability to get cloud services patrick
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►
thompson ya done really correctly and a
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►
night and I thought your conclusion was
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►
was exactly right that it doesn't seem
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◼
►
buying Twitter is really is really the
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►
right solution to that problem but it
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►
but it's true it seems to be for
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►
whatever reason a blind spot for them
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►
and then the other piece was I Michael
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►
ops piece on forestall being really
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►
leaving and how innovation really often
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►
needs argument me and that he wondered
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►
if getting rid of forestall means that
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►
there would be less argument and if that
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►
was a good thing for innovation or bad
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►
thing for renovation right then maybe
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►
the contention within the upper ranks
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►
maybe it was unpleasant day-to-day to
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deal with but maybe it was the best
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thing for ya
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►
maybe it was the best thing for the
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►
company going forward
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►
yeah and I i just love those both those
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►
my head together because I thought that
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►
they were thoughtful pieces on
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►
ok maybe these are blind spots of apples
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►
that could be concerning the future
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►
without being over-the-top you know
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►
apples doomed right is and this is the
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obvious sign of their decline i I've
00:13:34
◼
►
I've mentioned this before
00:13:36
◼
►
ah I don't think for long it's been a
00:13:39
◼
►
long time but probably on the show maybe
00:13:41
◼
►
it was the old show with Dan but that I
00:13:45
◼
►
have long thought that it's like this
00:13:48
◼
►
sort of i was theory is giving it way
00:13:50
◼
►
too much credence but let's call it my
00:13:52
◼
►
theory of first impressions and that
00:13:56
◼
►
we're hooked up evolutionarily primarily
00:14:00
◼
►
all of the things we really ever cared
00:14:02
◼
►
about where a small circle of the other
00:14:03
◼
►
human beings you ever possibly encounter
00:14:05
◼
►
know there's that that number of you
00:14:08
◼
►
know like a hundred and fifty is like
00:14:09
◼
►
most number of people you can have any
00:14:11
◼
►
kind of emotional bond with and we're
00:14:15
◼
►
hooking up to or 55 in my case the eggs
00:14:18
◼
►
right there with your body for real
00:14:28
◼
►
before I was exaggerating its gonna make
00:14:32
◼
►
a joke about that there's a reason that
00:14:34
◼
►
we generally have one kitten
00:14:36
◼
►
nah it's always it's you actually to but
00:14:47
◼
►
I at but my theory is more or less that
00:14:52
◼
►
we're hooked up to you meet other people
00:14:54
◼
►
if somebody hadn't met before
00:14:56
◼
►
you should have a good instinct that you
00:14:59
◼
►
should be able to make a good first
00:15:00
◼
►
impression and accurate first impression
00:15:02
◼
►
is this someone you should trust is it
00:15:04
◼
►
someone you shouldn't trust is it
00:15:05
◼
►
someone you like and you know not that
00:15:08
◼
►
we're never wrong and not that first
00:15:09
◼
►
impression sometimes are unsurprisingly
00:15:11
◼
►
misleading but in general where we're
00:15:14
◼
►
really good at that and as evolution and
00:15:16
◼
►
there's really strong evolutionary
00:15:17
◼
►
reasons to do to be like that but I also
00:15:20
◼
►
think that first impressions solidified
00:15:22
◼
►
very quickly and and when you're dealing
00:15:24
◼
►
with people people don't change that
00:15:26
◼
►
much right once you get to know someone
00:15:28
◼
►
don't even think i'm not even talking
00:15:29
◼
►
about like your
00:15:30
◼
►
30 second first impression but like I
00:15:33
◼
►
just met you you're the new guy in the
00:15:35
◼
►
office and you know we meet and we you
00:15:38
◼
►
know the course of a couple of weeks we
00:15:40
◼
►
get to know each other 10 years from now
00:15:42
◼
►
you're not going to be that different
00:15:43
◼
►
right you're still the same person
00:15:44
◼
►
unless you know you get hit the head or
00:15:47
◼
►
something like that but that's often
00:15:48
◼
►
very hard to deal with like if you've
00:15:50
◼
►
ever met anybody who's had a head injury
00:15:53
◼
►
it's it's often it will throw you off
00:15:55
◼
►
because you think that they're the same
00:15:56
◼
►
and because they're not isn't it it's
00:16:00
◼
►
really hard for families to deal with
00:16:01
◼
►
that I mean I know trying to make light
00:16:03
◼
►
of it i and i think that a lot of people
00:16:08
◼
►
when it comes
00:16:09
◼
►
we're not hooked up to deal with
00:16:10
◼
►
something like Apple which is an
00:16:12
◼
►
incredibly different company than what
00:16:14
◼
►
it used to be but so many people
00:16:16
◼
►
especially businesspeople investors and
00:16:19
◼
►
business writers invested writers and
00:16:22
◼
►
stuff like that have this impression of
00:16:24
◼
►
apple from the nineties that is that
00:16:27
◼
►
still what they see is apple and there's
00:16:30
◼
►
just nothing that's going to it we're
00:16:32
◼
►
gonna have to wait until they get sold
00:16:35
◼
►
that they retire before it really the
00:16:37
◼
►
company really shakes that right and
00:16:39
◼
►
that it's still seen as this little guy
00:16:42
◼
►
or the upstart or the the the deviant
00:16:45
◼
►
from the norm in the industry and so you
00:16:48
◼
►
still see people talking about Apple
00:16:50
◼
►
like that when Apple gets in trouble
00:16:52
◼
►
that they could go under go down or just
00:16:55
◼
►
completely collapse like that's actually
00:16:57
◼
►
impossible at this point apple is so big
00:16:59
◼
►
and so successful that the worst thing
00:17:01
◼
►
that would happen i think is stagnation
00:17:04
◼
►
right like sort of more or less what
00:17:07
◼
►
happened to microsoft and that's and
00:17:09
◼
►
that's the other thing that people tend
00:17:10
◼
►
to do is they they want to apply then
00:17:13
◼
►
they always want to do this they want to
00:17:15
◼
►
apply something that happened in the
00:17:17
◼
►
past they want they want to say that's
00:17:19
◼
►
the pc wars between the mac and windows
00:17:24
◼
►
are exactly the same as what's going on
00:17:26
◼
►
between iOS and Android right now and
00:17:28
◼
►
none of these things ever repeat
00:17:29
◼
►
themselves exactly the same way right
00:17:32
◼
►
and and they want to say that
00:17:33
◼
►
oh my god Apple's the new microsoft
00:17:35
◼
►
right I or that androids the new windows
00:17:41
◼
►
and iOS is young man
00:17:43
◼
►
again but you know that the numbers are
00:17:45
◼
►
so staggeringly different that it
00:17:46
◼
►
doesn't make any sense to think of it
00:17:48
◼
►
that way and I also in the whole
00:17:49
◼
►
industry is different too i mean it's
00:17:51
◼
►
not as hard to code I think I don't know
00:17:54
◼
►
I don't know the reasons for this
00:17:55
◼
►
particularly because then I'm not a
00:17:57
◼
►
coder but back in the nineties it was
00:18:00
◼
►
much more of a trial to try and move
00:18:03
◼
►
code between to eat between windows on
00:18:06
◼
►
the mac then and it i think it is today
00:18:08
◼
►
trying to do it just seems like it's
00:18:11
◼
►
easier for the day there's a lot more
00:18:12
◼
►
cross development going on right now I
00:18:16
◼
►
definitely think so and I don't know why
00:18:17
◼
►
I like i said i don't know why that that
00:18:19
◼
►
is but it doesn't seem like it's as big
00:18:21
◼
►
a deal to try and say okay what we wrote
00:18:23
◼
►
this for for iOS what's right for
00:18:25
◼
►
android or vice versa
00:18:27
◼
►
whereas nobody did that back in very
00:18:31
◼
►
very limited number of large
00:18:32
◼
►
applications were quoted for both
00:18:34
◼
►
platforms back in the nineties yeah i
00:18:37
◼
►
think that there's some that's a good
00:18:40
◼
►
guys actually probably good question for
00:18:42
◼
►
the whole for like a whole show but i
00:18:43
◼
►
think part of it is that that back then
00:18:46
◼
►
computers were so meager technically so
00:18:49
◼
►
much slower cpu so such by today's
00:18:53
◼
►
standards such incredibly tiny amounts
00:18:56
◼
►
yeah that you really kind of had to
00:18:58
◼
►
write it right good software down to the
00:19:00
◼
►
metal arc is closed above the metal as
00:19:04
◼
►
you can get to make it efficient and
00:19:07
◼
►
that it was really hard to have like an
00:19:09
◼
►
abstraction layer that was cross
00:19:11
◼
►
platform because it involved even a
00:19:13
◼
►
little bit of overhead it you just
00:19:17
◼
►
couldn't afford that that any sort of
00:19:18
◼
►
inefficiency like that I but that is a
00:19:25
◼
►
good segue that this whole idea of of of
00:19:28
◼
►
Apple you know what would an apple
00:19:31
◼
►
declined look like and it is getting rid
00:19:35
◼
►
of forestall to alleviate contention
00:19:38
◼
►
good or bad in that direction leads
00:19:41
◼
►
right into the probably the biggest
00:19:43
◼
►
thing this week is this extensive
00:19:45
◼
►
interview with Tim Cook in bloomberg
00:19:49
◼
►
well what is it businessweek Bloomberg I
00:19:51
◼
►
don't know what you know what do you
00:19:52
◼
►
Bloomberg's uber this is bloomberg
00:19:54
◼
►
businessweek I get really confused about
00:19:56
◼
►
too because they look totally different
00:19:57
◼
►
but Bloomberg owns businessweek and the
00:20:00
◼
►
interview I guess is in the magazines
00:20:02
◼
►
probably be the cover story I and they
00:20:05
◼
►
broke it across 11 pages you have to
00:20:07
◼
►
click 11 different web pages but then if
00:20:08
◼
►
you go to bloomberg.com you can get the
00:20:10
◼
►
exact same article on one nice pit don't
00:20:14
◼
►
understand is talking about the reality
00:20:15
◼
►
oh yeah but they cover that in the
00:20:18
◼
►
article there's a part here where that
00:20:22
◼
►
he sort of asked about forestall and
00:20:27
◼
►
what does he say here I the question is
00:20:33
◼
►
the past few weeks you replace two
00:20:35
◼
►
members of your senior executive t
00:20:36
◼
►
mobile software head Scott Forstall and
00:20:38
◼
►
retail chief john browett how do these
00:20:41
◼
►
moves make apple better which is a
00:20:43
◼
►
polite way of saying what was wrong and
00:20:45
◼
►
that's actually that's not me adding
00:20:47
◼
►
that aside that's actually the question
00:20:48
◼
►
asked cook book says the key in the
00:20:51
◼
►
change that you're referencing is my
00:20:53
◼
►
deep belief that collaboration is
00:20:54
◼
►
essential for innovation and I didn't
00:20:57
◼
►
just start believing that I've always
00:20:58
◼
►
believed that it's always been a core
00:21:00
◼
►
belief that Apple Steve very deeply
00:21:02
◼
►
believe this
00:21:03
◼
►
so the changes it's not a matter of
00:21:05
◼
►
going from no collaboration to
00:21:07
◼
►
collaboration we have an enormous level
00:21:09
◼
►
of collaboration that Apple but it's a
00:21:11
◼
►
matter of taking it to another level
00:21:13
◼
►
you look at what we are great at there
00:21:14
◼
►
are many things but the one thing we do
00:21:16
◼
►
which I don't know what else does is
00:21:17
◼
►
integrate hardware software and services
00:21:19
◼
►
in a way that most consumers begin to
00:21:23
◼
►
not differentiate anymore they just care
00:21:25
◼
►
that the experiences fantastic blah blah
00:21:27
◼
►
blah i wait but then he talks all right
00:21:31
◼
►
here's what he says Mr Kim cook
00:21:32
◼
►
continuing he says you don't have silos
00:21:34
◼
►
built up where everybody is trying to
00:21:36
◼
►
optimize their silo and figuring out how
00:21:39
◼
►
to grab turf and all of these things
00:21:41
◼
►
makes all of our jobs easier so we're
00:21:43
◼
►
freed up to focus on the things that
00:21:45
◼
►
truly matter i mean that to me doesn't
00:21:46
◼
►
mention forestall but clearly that's
00:21:48
◼
►
talking about forestall who had the the
00:21:52
◼
►
the silo iOS yeah and kind and it also
00:21:57
◼
►
sounds like Microsoft to me
00:21:59
◼
►
not that i know that well how Microsoft
00:22:02
◼
►
is structured and and if that kind of
00:22:03
◼
►
thing goes on but they do have it that
00:22:07
◼
►
that review system where they fit
00:22:09
◼
►
everybody into a bell curve right and
00:22:12
◼
►
you know it even if you did great
00:22:15
◼
►
if they think someone did better than
00:22:17
◼
►
you you're going to get forced down so
00:22:19
◼
►
it's like 10 there's like a top 10% that
00:22:21
◼
►
does really well there's the meat of the
00:22:24
◼
►
bell curve that's eighty percent and
00:22:27
◼
►
then the other ten percent of all the
00:22:28
◼
►
way to force down to the bottom
00:22:30
◼
►
yeah what's that called actually wanted
00:22:33
◼
►
to talk more strength forced ranking is
00:22:36
◼
►
yeah stack ranking or something like
00:22:38
◼
►
yeah I actually wanted to talk to lop
00:22:40
◼
►
about that would have to happen back on
00:22:42
◼
►
the show but i forgot to when he was on
00:22:44
◼
►
because you know is he's like wait
00:22:45
◼
►
the only guy I know who knows anything
00:22:46
◼
►
about engineering management
00:22:48
◼
►
yeah but i would love to get his opinion
00:22:50
◼
►
on that but it's it does seem it seems
00:22:52
◼
►
like one of those be careful what you
00:22:53
◼
►
test for on type warnings like the idea
00:22:58
◼
►
is that if you have a five-person if
00:23:00
◼
►
your product manager microsoft you have
00:23:02
◼
►
a five-person team when it comes time to
00:23:04
◼
►
give the reviews you get you get like
00:23:07
◼
►
one gold star to give out to goods and I
00:23:10
◼
►
have to give out to too bad no sad faces
00:23:13
◼
►
you have to so if you've recruited a
00:23:15
◼
►
team of five all-stars and you know
00:23:18
◼
►
which you would think would be a great
00:23:19
◼
►
way to make a great product you've got
00:23:21
◼
►
to give two of them bad reviews you have
00:23:23
◼
►
to and so what you end up getting
00:23:25
◼
►
everybody seems to agree is that it
00:23:29
◼
►
doesn't really reward excellence at what
00:23:31
◼
►
you're doing it rewards excellence at
00:23:34
◼
►
getting your product manager to give you
00:23:37
◼
►
the gold star
00:23:38
◼
►
yeah right you're gonna take your gaming
00:23:40
◼
►
the game i think it's broader than that
00:23:42
◼
►
I don't think they may force it down to
00:23:44
◼
►
the like the team level so i don't think
00:23:46
◼
►
i don't think you get a situation
00:23:48
◼
►
whether you were five people and and
00:23:50
◼
►
somebody gets screwed and even if all
00:23:51
◼
►
five didn't know it does honestly Reed
00:23:54
◼
►
is that right is that right really ok
00:23:56
◼
►
it really is and as I work someplace
00:23:59
◼
►
that was going to implement the system
00:24:01
◼
►
and people were just up in arms about it
00:24:04
◼
►
and eventually backed off of it and now
00:24:06
◼
►
it was it was going to be more corporate
00:24:10
◼
►
yday from when I remember at least our
00:24:13
◼
►
implementation of it was going to be
00:24:15
◼
►
more corporate one so I said yeah yeah
00:24:18
◼
►
yeah that's how it works and so you end
00:24:19
◼
►
up with which is
00:24:20
◼
►
we're almost to where it let's say you
00:24:21
◼
►
are really good at what you do you're
00:24:23
◼
►
really good programmer but you're
00:24:25
◼
►
thinking about switching to a new team
00:24:28
◼
►
well it's to your interest to go to that
00:24:29
◼
►
team if you know there's a couple of
00:24:31
◼
►
turkeys on because if you're it just
00:24:34
◼
►
looking out for your career because
00:24:35
◼
►
you're gonna shine
00:24:36
◼
►
whereas if you're looking at a team or
00:24:38
◼
►
you know there's a couple of other
00:24:40
◼
►
superstars there you might think well
00:24:42
◼
►
this might hurt my career because I I
00:24:44
◼
►
don't know that I can I don't know that
00:24:46
◼
►
I can get a ranking better than those
00:24:47
◼
►
two guys because they're awesome
00:24:49
◼
►
yeah just seems terrible it seems
00:24:52
◼
►
counterproductive and now but it's also
00:24:54
◼
►
true and i think it's an interesting
00:24:56
◼
►
contrast though at the senior management
00:24:57
◼
►
level though where Microsoft is
00:24:59
◼
►
organized in a way that I think most
00:25:01
◼
►
companies are by-product divisions right
00:25:03
◼
►
Steven Sinofsky was the head of windows
00:25:07
◼
►
8 right and he had nothing to do with
00:25:09
◼
►
the phone like I remember asking him
00:25:12
◼
►
because I got to speak to him a little
00:25:13
◼
►
bit at the thing in New York a couple
00:25:14
◼
►
weeks ago at the windows 8 launch event
00:25:16
◼
►
I and they had done a thing i think was
00:25:19
◼
►
thursday in New York they were debuting
00:25:21
◼
►
windows 8 and then monday in San
00:25:24
◼
►
Francisco they were debuting windows
00:25:26
◼
►
phone 8 and i justjust offhandedly I
00:25:28
◼
►
asked if he was you know just you know a
00:25:31
◼
►
way to chat about the weather and
00:25:33
◼
►
traveled it did he have to hop on a
00:25:35
◼
►
plane and go all the way back to the
00:25:36
◼
►
west coast for the monday thing and he
00:25:39
◼
►
was nine I have nothing to do with that
00:25:40
◼
►
so he wasn't even go into it and I kind
00:25:43
◼
►
of thought that you know but they're the
00:25:45
◼
►
Apple is is organized in a very opposite
00:25:48
◼
►
way especially now that forestall Scott
00:25:51
◼
►
like maybe forestall was the equivalent
00:25:52
◼
►
of Sinofsky was in charge of an
00:25:54
◼
►
operating system iOS um but now it's not
00:26:00
◼
►
like that at all
00:26:01
◼
►
you know Johnny I've is in charge of all
00:26:03
◼
►
design design of everything your
00:26:05
◼
►
shoulder is in charge of all marketing
00:26:07
◼
►
doesn't matter if you have you know
00:26:08
◼
►
Apple is in charge of iphone marketing
00:26:10
◼
►
ipad marketing math marketing if Apple
00:26:13
◼
►
comes out with something totally new
00:26:15
◼
►
they come out with the apple branded car
00:26:17
◼
►
will shoulder is in charge of the
00:26:18
◼
►
marketing of it right Johnny I've is in
00:26:20
◼
►
charge of the design of it uh it's a
00:26:25
◼
►
different or it's a very different
00:26:26
◼
►
organization and that you know i think
00:26:29
◼
►
it's it's it's a open question whether
00:26:33
◼
►
that's the better way to do it yeah the
00:26:37
◼
►
counterpoint I thought of two locks
00:26:39
◼
►
argument is that it because when you
00:26:42
◼
►
reach a point where the person one of
00:26:45
◼
►
the people creating the argument is so
00:26:49
◼
►
difficult that you either lose you it
00:26:54
◼
►
becomes harder to get good people in the
00:26:57
◼
►
other positions right because a lot of
00:26:59
◼
►
people don't want to deal with that crap
00:27:01
◼
►
they don't have a don't have to like
00:27:04
◼
►
have an argument every time they go into
00:27:05
◼
►
a meeting and it and i think that you
00:27:08
◼
►
know it had something you know I mean I
00:27:10
◼
►
played a part in the the thermostat boy
00:27:16
◼
►
with Tony Fadell Tony Fadell him leaving
00:27:20
◼
►
and and I think it seemed like it was
00:27:22
◼
►
playing a part in Big Bob Mansfield
00:27:25
◼
►
I am so glad you could call it that but
00:27:28
◼
►
i always call in five minutes
00:27:30
◼
►
yeah in a different way that this is
00:27:31
◼
►
played out has been a little
00:27:33
◼
►
surprisingly open for apple right like
00:27:36
◼
►
it seems like the Mansfield thing is is
00:27:39
◼
►
it just became kind of obvious right
00:27:41
◼
►
right and I don't know that they were so
00:27:43
◼
►
open about it necessarily as it just was
00:27:46
◼
►
Oh mansfield on his way out of 4 stars
00:27:50
◼
►
leaving me that's gonna stick around for
00:27:52
◼
►
a little while and you can have your
00:27:53
◼
►
head up a new set up an entirely new
00:27:55
◼
►
organization
00:27:56
◼
►
yeah I but there also were reports i
00:28:00
◼
►
forget who had it but somebody had like
00:28:01
◼
►
you know sources who wouldn't be named
00:28:04
◼
►
different familiar with the situation as
00:28:05
◼
►
they say that that Jony ive was at ya
00:28:11
◼
►
was refusing to go into any meeting were
00:28:13
◼
►
forced always gonna be yeah and i think
00:28:15
◼
►
they said the same about mansfield in
00:28:16
◼
►
the or maybe at least he didn't I got
00:28:19
◼
►
220 yeah meetings with forced all right
00:28:21
◼
►
I and so that you know I while I
00:28:24
◼
►
understand the argument yet I've got
00:28:26
◼
►
you know I like a good argument but when
00:28:28
◼
►
you have someone is so difficult that
00:28:30
◼
►
he's actually pushing other people you
00:28:32
◼
►
know very talented people and
00:28:33
◼
►
particularly you think talk about
00:28:35
◼
►
mansfield in and cook talks about him in
00:28:37
◼
►
that interview he is really probably the
00:28:40
◼
►
best hardware manager anywhere in the in
00:28:44
◼
►
the technology industry
00:28:45
◼
►
yeah he's just got to be right at me
00:28:47
◼
►
they make and pick the best hardware and
00:28:49
◼
►
the guy seems pretty bright and since
00:28:52
◼
►
he's been there they really have made an
00:28:55
◼
►
enormous number of innovations you know
00:28:57
◼
►
yeah just thinking about you know this
00:28:59
◼
►
whole move to these systems on a chip
00:29:01
◼
►
I'm the way that they deal with
00:29:04
◼
►
batteries along yeah yeah I mean we made
00:29:07
◼
►
fun of that when they when they did the
00:29:08
◼
►
that the Liberty gives the last macworld
00:29:11
◼
►
right where we're shoulder was the
00:29:13
◼
►
keynote and the big announcement was
00:29:15
◼
►
whatever it was was that there were
00:29:17
◼
►
integrating the battery we no longer
00:29:20
◼
►
have removable batteries and write
00:29:21
◼
►
17-inch macbook pro and they did the big
00:29:26
◼
►
video was was a video about battery
00:29:28
◼
►
technology right which was really you
00:29:31
◼
►
know not exist as exciting as the two
00:29:34
◼
►
years earlier when they announced the
00:29:35
◼
►
iphone obviously but at the same time it
00:29:39
◼
►
turned out to be a better battery
00:29:40
◼
►
technology is a really important part of
00:29:42
◼
►
their business
00:29:43
◼
►
yeah it's you know there's a
00:29:45
◼
►
self-congratulatory angle on all those
00:29:48
◼
►
behind the scenes you know talking to
00:29:50
◼
►
his Jony ive talking about how beautiful
00:29:52
◼
►
it is Bob Mansfield you know talking
00:29:54
◼
►
about how amazing this battery is and
00:29:57
◼
►
there's sort of a who cares aspect to it
00:29:59
◼
►
i mean there's a reason why they show it
00:30:01
◼
►
to the press at these things even though
00:30:03
◼
►
they're superhot production guys and
00:30:05
◼
►
they don't they're not like when they
00:30:06
◼
►
put the commercials on TV for Christmas
00:30:08
◼
►
they're not showing they're not trying
00:30:10
◼
►
to get people excited about the battery
00:30:12
◼
►
integration with every great man
00:30:14
◼
►
ok like that Monday Night Football ad
00:30:18
◼
►
for with big pot man still talking about
00:30:20
◼
►
a battery or did or maybe they did the
00:30:23
◼
►
ones that may be the closest they've
00:30:24
◼
►
come to that was when they first switch
00:30:26
◼
►
to intel processors and they had that
00:30:28
◼
►
thing with the postal service song you
00:30:32
◼
►
have God they had it they had a
00:30:35
◼
►
commercial at Apple gonna have the
00:30:38
◼
►
google this later the band the band the
00:30:41
◼
►
poster the band is called the postal
00:30:43
◼
►
yeah i know i know there or maybe that
00:30:46
◼
►
maybe it was like a ripoff it was a
00:30:48
◼
►
argue is arguably a ripoff of some music
00:30:51
◼
►
video had a commercial that showed like
00:30:53
◼
►
cpus coming down an assembly line you
00:30:58
◼
►
with these yeah robotic things cutting
00:31:00
◼
►
them up and it was a regular media
00:31:02
◼
►
I don't know but anyway that was maybe
00:31:06
◼
►
the closest they came yeah was trying to
00:31:07
◼
►
get people excited about intel cpus I'm
00:31:10
◼
►
but it is interesting because i do think
00:31:13
◼
►
there's insight to be gleaned from these
00:31:15
◼
►
things about what Apple honestly thinks
00:31:17
◼
►
is important and what they're proud of
00:31:22
◼
►
I you know it they're they're very quiet
00:31:26
◼
►
they don't say much but when they do say
00:31:28
◼
►
things i do think and I think it's one
00:31:30
◼
►
of the things a lot of people don't
00:31:31
◼
►
understand about Apple there they're
00:31:32
◼
►
surprisingly forthcoming I i keep
00:31:36
◼
►
thinking I haven't written about it but
00:31:38
◼
►
I keep thinking about it goes also going
00:31:41
◼
►
back to switch from powerpc to Intel it
00:31:45
◼
►
was a WWDC keynote it did take everybody
00:31:48
◼
►
by surprise everyone know you know it's
00:31:50
◼
►
long been rumored but you know it was
00:31:52
◼
►
only like the friday before when the
00:31:54
◼
►
Wall Street Journal said yeah this is
00:31:56
◼
►
going to happen and everybody was sort
00:31:57
◼
►
of like what was that
00:31:58
◼
►
how's that going to work and onstage
00:32:01
◼
►
talking about it Steve Jobs explanation
00:32:05
◼
►
was more or less this argument about
00:32:07
◼
►
power her energy and performance / not
00:32:14
◼
►
just your performance but performance /
00:32:17
◼
►
energy consumption and that this was the
00:32:21
◼
►
future of computing and that these intel
00:32:24
◼
►
cpus they were switching to gave them so
00:32:27
◼
►
much more computing power per watt of
00:32:30
◼
►
energy burn which if you think about his
00:32:34
◼
►
and he was very passionate about it and
00:32:35
◼
►
it was almost like come on Steve but if
00:32:40
◼
►
you think about it isn't that exactly
00:32:42
◼
►
like like shouldn't the guy who listen
00:32:45
◼
►
the most intently to that shouldn't have
00:32:47
◼
►
been Paul Otellini right because isn't
00:32:50
◼
►
that exactly where Intel is now found
00:32:52
◼
►
itself behind this every yeah and that's
00:32:55
◼
►
this whole revolution with these arm
00:32:56
◼
►
processors for phones and tablets is is
00:33:01
◼
►
not sure performance right i mean you
00:33:03
◼
►
know that the high-end ipad 4 is in
00:33:07
◼
►
terms of like benchmarking way slower
00:33:10
◼
►
and the cheapest macbook right it's not
00:33:14
◼
►
it's not that fast as it just as sure
00:33:16
◼
►
processor it's about battery life and
00:33:20
◼
►
this this new division of performance
00:33:23
◼
►
versus energy consumption and heat right
00:33:27
◼
►
and whens cook look at Steve Jobs really
00:33:31
◼
►
laid it all out on the line back in i
00:33:32
◼
►
don't when was that 2006 2005 mean
00:33:35
◼
►
really like such a belt it out
00:33:37
◼
►
yeah what does could call he didn't in
00:33:42
◼
►
that little video so NBC also had a
00:33:45
◼
►
short cut of what is gonna be on tonight
00:33:49
◼
►
right as i think it's on tonight
00:33:51
◼
►
yes it's on tonight on the rock-hard
00:33:53
◼
►
show right on Brian way my rock hard
00:33:59
◼
►
isn't that the name of the show and now
00:34:04
◼
►
it's not as its I don't know I really
00:34:08
◼
►
ok let me look it up it's brian williams
00:34:12
◼
►
rockecenter yeah yeah yeah alright Brian
00:34:15
◼
►
Williams rock hard as a different show
00:34:17
◼
►
that's a different show it's on later
00:34:19
◼
►
because ego that was he called the
00:34:24
◼
►
processors because they had a funny word
00:34:28
◼
►
for it doesn't say process races like
00:34:30
◼
►
brain or something
00:34:31
◼
►
engine engine i think the eyes are you
00:34:34
◼
►
talking about i think thats is what I
00:34:36
◼
►
think you talked about the operating
00:34:37
◼
►
system not the processor because it
00:34:39
◼
►
because he said it's made in the USA
00:34:41
◼
►
that must mean that I think he means
00:34:42
◼
►
this but that the engine is the it i
00:34:48
◼
►
don't know where are the processors
00:34:50
◼
►
maybe they bought that they're designed
00:34:52
◼
►
they designed them
00:34:53
◼
►
yes they bought that company and I guess
00:34:58
◼
►
I thought they also made them it's all
00:35:00
◼
►
very secretive but an hour samsung is
00:35:02
◼
►
still making them for you know that's a
00:35:04
◼
►
whole awkward relationship with with
00:35:07
◼
►
Samsung that they've got this almost
00:35:10
◼
►
Shakespearean sort of duality now and
00:35:13
◼
►
then I guess I know Samsung has I got
00:35:15
◼
►
chipped fab in Texas where they make
00:35:17
◼
►
some but I don't know if they make them
00:35:19
◼
►
it does seem it seems kind of crazy like
00:35:21
◼
►
the way everything hopscotch is all
00:35:23
◼
►
around where they make the
00:35:24
◼
►
last in Kentucky and then send it over
00:35:27
◼
►
to China and they make the CPUs in Texas
00:35:29
◼
►
and then send them over to China and
00:35:31
◼
►
then they put them all together and then
00:35:32
◼
►
send the phones back to the US I thought
00:35:36
◼
►
he was talking about the operating
00:35:38
◼
►
system maybe you're right cabbie was
00:35:39
◼
►
talking I just talked about the
00:35:40
◼
►
processors but I oh I don't know it and
00:35:43
◼
►
I could be there
00:35:43
◼
►
I don't know yeah but that's the other
00:35:46
◼
►
thing that he announced is that they're
00:35:50
◼
►
gonna start trying to do a little more
00:35:52
◼
►
manufacturing in the United States and
00:35:54
◼
►
today there was also announcement that
00:35:56
◼
►
Foxconn is going to so I don't know if
00:35:58
◼
►
those two things are the same
00:35:59
◼
►
oh really seems like yeah that Foxconn
00:36:01
◼
►
is going to open or do more
00:36:03
◼
►
manufacturing in the u.s. mean I don't
00:36:07
◼
►
know if they doing here you're currently
00:36:08
◼
►
but so we're gonna get some of that
00:36:11
◼
►
great foxconn job so if you're looking
00:36:16
◼
►
for a sweatshop job it's not really a
00:36:21
◼
►
sweatshop but yeah yeah he doesn't wait
00:36:28
◼
►
another 10 13 another one to file under
00:36:31
◼
►
be careful what you wish for
00:36:33
◼
►
yeah right way yeah we will bring those
00:36:35
◼
►
jobs back to America this sucks I and
00:36:42
◼
►
that's the other thing that I I feel
00:36:44
◼
►
fairly confident that someone will
00:36:47
◼
►
predict that Apple's decline it you know
00:36:51
◼
►
another sign of apples impending decline
00:36:53
◼
►
is that they're bringing jobs United
00:36:55
◼
►
States anything they do differently is a
00:36:57
◼
►
sign that they're declining right right
00:36:59
◼
►
i could see i mean i can see sort of
00:37:02
◼
►
your argument there because you'd be
00:37:03
◼
►
saying well that means they're gonna
00:37:05
◼
►
have to be more expensive and you know
00:37:07
◼
►
whatever see there's there is a there is
00:37:11
◼
►
room for a reasonable argument but the
00:37:12
◼
►
same time it I think I and this is the
00:37:16
◼
►
sort of the whole problem with these
00:37:17
◼
►
arguments is that because of apples
00:37:20
◼
►
track record and because it still has
00:37:22
◼
►
basically the same core of good
00:37:25
◼
►
executives that it had and the and the
00:37:29
◼
►
right guy leading the company i trust
00:37:33
◼
►
their ability to execute and
00:37:37
◼
►
to accept all these up counter-arguments
00:37:41
◼
►
that's to say that the company is surely
00:37:43
◼
►
in decline you have to sort of throw
00:37:45
◼
►
that out you have to say no only you
00:37:48
◼
►
know Steve Jobs was the only one that
00:37:50
◼
►
was worth of damage the company and
00:37:51
◼
►
everybody else is a mouth breathing
00:37:54
◼
►
right number so I don't get I mean
00:37:58
◼
►
obviously right actually I don't get
00:38:00
◼
►
that and I think the I mean I was your
00:38:05
◼
►
private was your overall impression of
00:38:07
◼
►
the of the interview I thought it was
00:38:09
◼
►
that was pretty good for how these
00:38:11
◼
►
things are are done
00:38:13
◼
►
yes to certain degree these are all puff
00:38:15
◼
►
pieces he wasn't really throwing
00:38:17
◼
►
anything terribly difficult but it would
00:38:20
◼
►
but it also wasn't complete softballs
00:38:22
◼
►
right like ideally we you know you'd
00:38:26
◼
►
love to get some yeah they know that you
00:38:29
◼
►
didn't bother asking anything about
00:38:31
◼
►
future products right you have ideally
00:38:33
◼
►
to satisfy our curiosity would like to
00:38:37
◼
►
stuffed to a level of detail that is
00:38:39
◼
►
outside apples interest in sharing right
00:38:42
◼
►
and Tim Cook has not added in bold and
00:38:45
◼
►
so he's not going to do that but I feel
00:38:47
◼
►
like in terms of the line of what he
00:38:49
◼
►
might be willing to talk about
00:38:51
◼
►
I felt like like that the interview is
00:38:54
◼
►
very well done and that it went it went
00:38:56
◼
►
up to that line and kind of filled today
00:38:57
◼
►
yeah right like you're not going to the
00:39:00
◼
►
apples not going to let somebody follow
00:39:02
◼
►
a product development team around for
00:39:05
◼
►
six months and document exactly how they
00:39:07
◼
►
actually do it i thought one of the most
00:39:11
◼
►
interesting tidbits IM it makes sense if
00:39:13
◼
►
you think about it but I hadn't thought
00:39:14
◼
►
about it this way was very said that
00:39:15
◼
►
that eighty percent of the company's
00:39:18
◼
►
revenue from this corner is coming from
00:39:20
◼
►
products that were released within the
00:39:22
◼
►
last 60 days
00:39:23
◼
►
yeah which is its kind of amazing
00:39:27
◼
►
we don't really yeah you really think
00:39:28
◼
►
about that because they did turn the
00:39:29
◼
►
whole ipad line over right and and what
00:39:33
◼
►
do you have the ipod too right oh that's
00:39:36
◼
►
just true that's true but i suspect i
00:39:41
◼
►
well I don't know that's interesting i
00:39:42
◼
►
wonder if you I mean I'm so i'm assuming
00:39:44
◼
►
that that statistic is yes he's not he's
00:39:47
◼
►
not over emphasize area
00:39:50
◼
►
now I that seemed bigger than it really
00:39:54
◼
►
right now but i don't think that the
00:39:55
◼
►
ipad i think it's a hit i think it's
00:39:57
◼
►
successful i and I've said before and
00:39:58
◼
►
that's the only reason why they would
00:40:00
◼
►
keep it around is that people are buying
00:40:01
◼
►
it right whether it's they're still
00:40:03
◼
►
buying it with the many available you
00:40:05
◼
►
know was that the price that was making
00:40:06
◼
►
them buy it or was it the fact that they
00:40:08
◼
►
really wanted the tenants eyes and they
00:40:10
◼
►
just want the cheapest one that it will
00:40:12
◼
►
know the answer to that if that I you
00:40:13
◼
►
know if it sticks around but you know I
00:40:16
◼
►
i think i think tim cook that sort of
00:40:18
◼
►
thing that I don't think he would miss
00:40:20
◼
►
speak about like he might I yeah I don't
00:40:21
◼
►
think so either you might get
00:40:23
◼
►
loosey-goosey about what's the quote
00:40:24
◼
►
engine of the phone like that might be
00:40:27
◼
►
something that he's just going to wave
00:40:28
◼
►
his hands about when it's comes to
00:40:30
◼
►
things like we're eighty percent of the
00:40:32
◼
►
revenues coming yeah yeah i think you
00:40:34
◼
►
know i think the guys like a living
00:40:37
◼
►
breathing spreadsheet
00:40:38
◼
►
yeah i guess probably scary how much of
00:40:41
◼
►
that stuff he's got his edited given
00:40:44
◼
►
yeah that was the thing i look kinda
00:40:46
◼
►
look for is he seemed it i'm trying to
00:40:49
◼
►
think of all the examples he used a word
00:40:52
◼
►
a buzzword that he apologized for using
00:40:55
◼
►
I detected a best-of-breed best-of-breed
00:40:59
◼
►
yeah i used it yet so yeah use that but
00:41:02
◼
►
at least copy of that with st. by saying
00:41:05
◼
►
that he hated it right eye and he there
00:41:07
◼
►
was one other sort of buzz worthy thing
00:41:09
◼
►
that he used that I would you know I
00:41:11
◼
►
mean it's stupid to do this but I didn't
00:41:13
◼
►
I thought what will if that was
00:41:15
◼
►
something that jobs would have said but
00:41:18
◼
►
then the other i was pleased that he
00:41:20
◼
►
hears the word crappy been talking about
00:41:25
◼
►
we're talking about keyboards on
00:41:26
◼
►
netbooks and I thought that was it seems
00:41:31
◼
►
you know I you know I'd look for a
00:41:35
◼
►
little clues about his is characterized
00:41:37
◼
►
guess yeah just to see what kind of guy
00:41:39
◼
►
is yeah i guess that is the interesting
00:41:41
◼
►
thing one of the interesting things
00:41:42
◼
►
about him is that he is a bit of a
00:41:44
◼
►
cipher and I felt like the interview you
00:41:46
◼
►
know the what's his name Josh I want to
00:41:48
◼
►
give him credit because he didn't yeah
00:41:49
◼
►
yeah i i'm not a triangle is kind of got
00:41:55
◼
►
like a harder and we'll just call josh
00:41:57
◼
►
Josh to wrangle Randall gossamer Angeles
00:42:03
◼
►
yes for you're the perfect person to try
00:42:06
◼
►
and figure out how to pronounce this
00:42:07
◼
►
name yeah we go we should go like grade
00:42:12
◼
►
school style just call Josh t just ed
00:42:16
◼
►
mr. Josh yeah yeah brother John's in
00:42:18
◼
►
your in your class growing up
00:42:20
◼
►
oh yeah sure yeah we had three jon was
00:42:23
◼
►
touch-and-go China why is John not a
00:42:25
◼
►
popular name anymore it's a great name
00:42:27
◼
►
it's the best name I I was crazy to put
00:42:30
◼
►
a grill oh man I think Johnson invest
00:42:33
◼
►
John Adams got some great people but
00:42:38
◼
►
John Kennedy and it's a great name
00:42:41
◼
►
anyway but we had to we had three we had
00:42:43
◼
►
janji I was yours truly jaunty John are
00:42:48
◼
►
I wondered always wondered what we
00:42:51
◼
►
didn't do that had if you had two at the
00:42:53
◼
►
same initial ya i dont no matter how we
00:42:55
◼
►
would have a despite their to fight it
00:42:57
◼
►
yeah they put it up put them in a pit
00:42:59
◼
►
with a couple of sticks pointed sticks
00:43:01
◼
►
and let him go now I diet so no I always
00:43:05
◼
►
just I mean I mean not at that age and
00:43:08
◼
►
grade school age but I just eventually
00:43:10
◼
►
became bolts right so yeah same here
00:43:12
◼
►
i've always been molds
00:43:13
◼
►
yeah I've always been groomed yeah I let
00:43:18
◼
►
me do take a break and read a sponsor
00:43:20
◼
►
yet with one big sponsor this week it's
00:43:22
◼
►
talks coffee
00:43:23
◼
►
oh yeah ever heard of the tongues I've
00:43:25
◼
►
heard of the talks it's it's the best
00:43:29
◼
►
ah it's a great gift now I got it I got
00:43:32
◼
►
some some correction from last week it
00:43:35
◼
►
was i was talking in Maryland and I said
00:43:37
◼
►
you know you can you know maybe this
00:43:39
◼
►
idea of giving somebody a subscription
00:43:41
◼
►
to a thing that comes in the mail maybe
00:43:42
◼
►
it's you know got a bad rap as a holiday
00:43:44
◼
►
gift because of the the Christmas
00:43:46
◼
►
vacation I think I said that he got the
00:43:49
◼
►
cake of the Month Club my it's a beloved
00:43:52
◼
►
holiday classic my wife and my son were
00:43:54
◼
►
both appalled that I didn't remember
00:43:56
◼
►
what Clark got from the park Griswold
00:43:59
◼
►
got from his boss was it a subscription
00:44:01
◼
►
to the jelly of the month club and how I
00:44:04
◼
►
and that his cousin Eddie said it's the
00:44:07
◼
►
gift that keeps on giving
00:44:09
◼
►
I will talks coffee as a gift idea for
00:44:12
◼
►
the holidays it's the real deal though
00:44:13
◼
►
because it's not some shitty jelly
00:44:16
◼
►
it's it is the best coffee in the world
00:44:21
◼
►
like you're giving somebody something
00:44:22
◼
►
that they're actually going to use is
00:44:24
◼
►
presuming that you've got someone in
00:44:25
◼
►
your friend or family who drinks coffee
00:44:28
◼
►
and if they don't drink coffee
00:44:29
◼
►
I mean what's wrong with because it just
00:44:31
◼
►
came out the other thing it just came
00:44:33
◼
►
out last week that the more coffee you
00:44:35
◼
►
drink the better you are
00:44:36
◼
►
I don't know that's what I took four ya
00:44:37
◼
►
know that it's not the demonstrable be
00:44:41
◼
►
true right there was some kind of study
00:44:43
◼
►
came out that drinking copious amounts
00:44:45
◼
►
of coffee is on the whole good for your
00:44:48
◼
►
yeah and it's integral zoomed up being a
00:44:50
◼
►
good you're writing a good weblog right
00:44:52
◼
►
now exactly i mean it's it's what you
00:44:55
◼
►
know what and somebody else pointed out
00:44:56
◼
►
to me that on twitter that they said
00:45:01
◼
►
good piece on the daily but you missed
00:45:03
◼
►
what was surely the core of their
00:45:05
◼
►
failure that they obviously did not have
00:45:07
◼
►
I over-caffeinated fizzy water
00:45:10
◼
►
over-caffeinated over fizzy water and it
00:45:15
◼
►
was carbonated carbonated over
00:45:17
◼
►
carbonated fizzy water fussy coffee and
00:45:20
◼
►
clicking keyboard they were must have
00:45:22
◼
►
been missing at least one and A three
00:45:23
◼
►
possibly all three probably all 3i
00:45:25
◼
►
probably all three given out what it was
00:45:28
◼
►
but those are my keys to success on the
00:45:31
◼
►
internet / kappa / carbonated water
00:45:33
◼
►
policy delicious coffee and clicking
00:45:37
◼
►
yeah i would put the coffee first
00:45:39
◼
►
frankly I mean I'd if I can we have one
00:45:41
◼
►
of the 3i would we put the coffee first
00:45:44
◼
►
I could get my work done with the shitty
00:45:46
◼
►
keyboard and with flat water or juice or
00:45:48
◼
►
something like that
00:45:49
◼
►
not really sure how I didn't get
00:45:51
◼
►
anything going without the coffee honks
00:45:53
◼
►
is the best they get it from all over
00:45:54
◼
►
the world it is it it's great coffee and
00:45:57
◼
►
if you're lazy like me you don't have to
00:45:59
◼
►
leave the house I mean it fits right in
00:46:01
◼
►
with your piece in the magazine you
00:46:03
◼
►
don't have to go anywhere right you've
00:46:04
◼
►
got a poly you can get deliveries come
00:46:06
◼
►
into your office right you've got like a
00:46:08
◼
►
policy there with the wife
00:46:09
◼
►
so the tongues qualified under the door
00:46:11
◼
►
comes right in I up through december 16
00:46:15
◼
►
you can order in time for the holidays
00:46:18
◼
►
go to talks dot-org t 0 NX dot 0 RG sign
00:46:23
◼
►
up you get a free sample for yourself
00:46:24
◼
►
it's a great gift idea if you don't have
00:46:27
◼
►
the talk to everybody should have the
00:46:30
◼
►
don't understand why some people haven't
00:46:32
◼
►
signed up for yet really thanks to them
00:46:34
◼
►
for their continuing support of the talk
00:46:35
◼
►
show this is my thing for Christmas that
00:46:38
◼
►
for myself that I'm I'm trying to trying
00:46:41
◼
►
to arrange is to up my coffee game
00:46:44
◼
►
yeah and i think this is going to be an
00:46:46
◼
►
integral integral part of this because I
00:46:48
◼
►
I got on my on my Amazon wish list is
00:46:51
◼
►
the air be aeropress yeah and I gotta
00:46:54
◼
►
get I gotta organize and I'm switching
00:46:58
◼
►
I when I was out for the the show that I
00:47:02
◼
►
did in Los Angeles with the sandwich and
00:47:06
◼
►
ryan Johnson and looper director couple
00:47:08
◼
►
shows ago because we did that we did
00:47:10
◼
►
that show right there in the same with
00:47:11
◼
►
studios there in Los Angeles one of the
00:47:15
◼
►
guys who works with Adam there it's at
00:47:17
◼
►
sandwich video JP volunteer to to make
00:47:21
◼
►
me a cup of coffee and I I was not
00:47:22
◼
►
familiar with the aeropress and of
00:47:24
◼
►
course there was talk because I believe
00:47:26
◼
►
they're not sure if I can say this but I
00:47:28
◼
►
think they're working on a sandwich
00:47:30
◼
►
video for talks haha so they're you know
00:47:33
◼
►
they're it's all part of the talks
00:47:35
◼
►
family and he made me the aeropress cup
00:47:37
◼
►
of coffee and it really was one of those
00:47:39
◼
►
like pulp fiction moments of like a damn
00:47:41
◼
►
that's good yeah I like wow like it
00:47:48
◼
►
really kind of like set me off like I
00:47:50
◼
►
lost my train of thought it's like this
00:47:51
◼
►
is making really really delicious
00:47:54
◼
►
the other thing too that's fun about
00:47:56
◼
►
getting into copy you can really kind of
00:47:58
◼
►
nerd out on it and it's it's not
00:48:00
◼
►
expensive you know like you're not you
00:48:02
◼
►
know they like I'm always afraid I don't
00:48:04
◼
►
I never drink wine because I'm afraid
00:48:05
◼
►
that if i get into it all of a sudden
00:48:07
◼
►
I'm buying $85 bottles and I I I don't
00:48:10
◼
►
want to get into something like that you
00:48:12
◼
►
know i mean like all you need is boiled
00:48:14
◼
►
water and coffee beans
00:48:17
◼
►
yeah right you can get like a nice
00:48:19
◼
►
little fussy cattle and it's you know
00:48:23
◼
►
what's what's a teakettle cost doesn't
00:48:24
◼
►
cost a lot of money and are not like get
00:48:26
◼
►
into some kind of thing where you're
00:48:27
◼
►
can't pay your amex every month I want
00:48:33
◼
►
to get one of you should have you should
00:48:34
◼
►
not have to do that I want to get a
00:48:36
◼
►
teakettle that has the long skinny spout
00:48:39
◼
►
have you seen that like this seems like
00:48:41
◼
►
all the real that that's the way you
00:48:43
◼
►
yeah it's got like a real skinny spot
00:48:45
◼
►
mine has a big fat spout that's like you
00:48:48
◼
►
know it's just like it unfussy tea
00:48:50
◼
►
kettle or no water kettle whatever you
00:48:52
◼
►
want to call it and I feel like I got it
00:48:54
◼
►
I got it up my teakettle game under tim
00:48:59
◼
►
cook drinks coffee that's it i would bet
00:49:04
◼
►
he seems like i don't know i don't know
00:49:07
◼
►
i would hope so
00:49:08
◼
►
yeah I don't know I say eats a lot of
00:49:11
◼
►
energy bars is that used to be the other
00:49:15
◼
►
thing that was in all the profiles of
00:49:16
◼
►
that easy gets in early leave late I he
00:49:21
◼
►
eats a lot of it eats a lot of energy
00:49:26
◼
►
bars Steve Jobs never would have eaten
00:49:29
◼
►
energy bars you know one of the other
00:49:32
◼
►
things company in decline
00:49:37
◼
►
actually I one of the little things i
00:49:41
◼
►
noticed in the article was a day and
00:49:44
◼
►
this time unless i skipped it they never
00:49:46
◼
►
actually got back to talking about John
00:49:48
◼
►
Browett noise no I don't think you did
00:49:51
◼
►
it like he really just focused on for
00:49:54
◼
►
stolen glossed over brown right it's
00:49:57
◼
►
this whole thing here with forestall and
00:50:00
◼
►
a big explanation which is really I
00:50:02
◼
►
think about as open as they were going
00:50:03
◼
►
to get about you know what was going on
00:50:06
◼
►
there i really do mean you know i mean
00:50:08
◼
►
obviously not going to get into
00:50:09
◼
►
specifics I any you know kind of went
00:50:13
◼
►
out of his way
00:50:14
◼
►
euphemistically not to mention forestall
00:50:16
◼
►
my name as i get gentleman's agreement
00:50:18
◼
►
all of this i who had the podcast where
00:50:23
◼
►
they were talking about the severance
00:50:27
◼
►
agreements think it was siracusa going
00:50:29
◼
►
on on hypercritical when I wanted first
00:50:32
◼
►
broke and he was talking about these
00:50:35
◼
►
there's like a term for these type of
00:50:37
◼
►
agreements it's like a gardeners clause
00:50:43
◼
►
or something like that a guard gardening
00:50:45
◼
►
severance or something like that and
00:50:46
◼
►
they really it's a tradition
00:50:49
◼
►
I you know what he said I had forgets
00:50:55
◼
►
for something like that but the gist of
00:50:56
◼
►
it is it's like an old term from
00:50:57
◼
►
england and the gist of it is that it's
00:50:58
◼
►
in the contract that the company if we
00:51:01
◼
►
decide to get rid of you we can pay you
00:51:03
◼
►
this gardeners thing where you just
00:51:06
◼
►
going to stay at home and garden garden
00:51:08
◼
►
but you're going to be on the payroll at
00:51:10
◼
►
your regular salary for a year but we
00:51:11
◼
►
don't want you to even come into the
00:51:13
◼
►
office come it but we're gonna but we
00:51:16
◼
►
don't want you to go to a competitor
00:51:18
◼
►
you know I tried to get one of those
00:51:20
◼
►
four years in its own little bit finally
00:51:23
◼
►
just got to quit
00:51:25
◼
►
it's one of those things where when you
00:51:26
◼
►
get to a certain level of achievement
00:51:27
◼
►
everything it's like it must be nice you
00:51:30
◼
►
know what I mean yeah you know what they
00:51:32
◼
►
call golden parachutes solution right I
00:51:35
◼
►
normal people when you get fired you
00:51:37
◼
►
know you know yeah you just get fired
00:51:39
◼
►
you get weeks right you get like two
00:51:42
◼
►
weeks of pay you get maybe if you're
00:51:44
◼
►
lucky you get four weeks of pay
00:51:45
◼
►
no I you know like when you reach the
00:51:49
◼
►
executive level and you get fired you
00:51:52
◼
►
get tens of millions of dollars that's
00:51:54
◼
►
right you know and i don't mean the lab
00:51:58
◼
►
I really don't mean like that sometimes
00:51:59
◼
►
I worry about things like I just think
00:52:01
◼
►
like it like I don't think Scott
00:52:03
◼
►
Forstall listens to the talk show but
00:52:05
◼
►
the odds that he listens to the talk
00:52:07
◼
►
show it's definitely somewhere above
00:52:08
◼
►
zero right i mean is maybe it's one
00:52:11
◼
►
percent chance right and so I I always
00:52:14
◼
►
sometimes I think like I don't want to
00:52:15
◼
►
sit here and God you know maybe he's at
00:52:17
◼
►
home you know what gardening right bored
00:52:19
◼
►
out of his mind
00:52:20
◼
►
Jesus Christ and listen to podcasts and
00:52:22
◼
►
then here we are laughing about the fact
00:52:24
◼
►
that he got fired I mean I don't I
00:52:25
◼
►
really don't mean to make light of it
00:52:27
◼
►
now i really do think you know in a way
00:52:29
◼
►
I think that there's a good sad story
00:52:31
◼
►
there where I think that this is a guy
00:52:33
◼
►
who's been taken away from his life's
00:52:35
◼
►
work and I I mean this without any I I'm
00:52:39
◼
►
not making fun of trying to be serious
00:52:41
◼
►
uh but you know it's not like the guys
00:52:45
◼
►
just get a better
00:52:48
◼
►
yeah he doesn't have to his family
00:52:50
◼
►
doesn't have to switch to the store
00:52:51
◼
►
brand cornflakes was it seems like I
00:52:56
◼
►
mean you know a guy like that he's gonna
00:52:57
◼
►
he's gonna do something else
00:52:59
◼
►
I mean he's gonna he's gonna land on the
00:53:01
◼
►
speed and it's not gonna be alright
00:53:03
◼
►
sitting around in his bathroom right
00:53:06
◼
►
watching Washington watching his shows
00:53:10
◼
►
for a couple years just watch it'll keep
00:53:12
◼
►
cycling into a spiral of cruising
00:53:15
◼
►
congressional Bill's got there was one
00:53:19
◼
►
about you and like we would like he's
00:53:24
◼
►
already talking and you know he's
00:53:26
◼
►
already out there talking to people like
00:53:27
◼
►
figuring out what the next things right
00:53:29
◼
►
there's a reason that he got to be the
00:53:31
◼
►
senior vice yeah exactly right you gotta
00:53:33
◼
►
get ready clawed his way up there but
00:53:35
◼
►
probably murdered a bunch of people to
00:53:37
◼
►
get there he's gonna going to do it
00:53:40
◼
►
god I really don't want to think about
00:53:42
◼
►
what how i would do something really but
00:53:45
◼
►
he stepped in and took took your blog
00:53:49
◼
►
yeah sorry the word there's nothing
00:53:52
◼
►
you're done every once in a while I like
00:53:54
◼
►
what I see words and I the word I'm
00:53:57
◼
►
seeing right now it's is in big big
00:54:01
◼
►
future of bold all caps says
00:54:03
◼
►
intervention haha but yea yea trip to
00:54:13
◼
►
the health clinic didn't do you have a
00:54:16
◼
►
do you have a martini glasses in your
00:54:18
◼
►
bathroom like we do
00:54:19
◼
►
look at that hey last night's martini
00:54:22
◼
►
glasses that ya know
00:54:25
◼
►
okay good you still got a ways to go
00:54:30
◼
►
ya gotta catch up i want to be there but
00:54:35
◼
►
i keep up with the multiples
00:54:36
◼
►
yeah I won't say that I don't
00:54:38
◼
►
occasionally lose one where various just
00:54:42
◼
►
don't take it into the bathroom with the
00:54:47
◼
►
other thing i noticed in the same
00:54:48
◼
►
segment so he did they never actually
00:54:49
◼
►
get back to talking about John brow it
00:54:51
◼
►
just seems like that was just like only
00:54:54
◼
►
ever I me and he barely talked about all
00:54:56
◼
►
I honestly though in a sense though if I
00:54:58
◼
►
had it if there's one complaint of my
00:55:00
◼
►
complaints one of the things that
00:55:01
◼
►
occurred to me and i don't think i don't
00:55:03
◼
►
know I I feel like I'm only good at
00:55:06
◼
►
finding these things afterwards i'm not
00:55:07
◼
►
saying I would have done a better job if
00:55:09
◼
►
Apple and said look you want an hour
00:55:10
◼
►
with tim cook and I've of course would
00:55:12
◼
►
have said yes but I don't know that I
00:55:14
◼
►
would have done a better job than this
00:55:15
◼
►
guy i really don't
00:55:16
◼
►
yeah because I just start drawing blanks
00:55:19
◼
►
I'm not good
00:55:20
◼
►
I i think very very slowly and I think
00:55:22
◼
►
to be an interview
00:55:23
◼
►
you got to think fast but it occurs to
00:55:24
◼
►
me though that I would have liked him to
00:55:26
◼
►
go back to browse because the browser
00:55:28
◼
►
thing to me is all on cook right like
00:55:32
◼
►
the the forestall situation is obviously
00:55:34
◼
►
been simmering literally for a decade
00:55:36
◼
►
right i mean force that's been there for
00:55:39
◼
►
I and you're as proud as something where
00:55:41
◼
►
he at you know he brought him in and add
00:55:44
◼
►
a turnaround shown the door right the
00:55:46
◼
►
whole thing with ron johnson leaving
00:55:48
◼
►
happened after Jobs died I you know and
00:55:52
◼
►
there's and I who knows whether there's
00:55:53
◼
►
any truth to return I think it's
00:55:54
◼
►
ridiculous but there's some speculation
00:55:56
◼
►
that that that Johnson wanted the CEO
00:55:59
◼
►
job at apple and that if you know when
00:56:01
◼
►
it was curtains gonna go to cook with
00:56:02
◼
►
any was out because there was no that
00:56:04
◼
►
doesn't seem that he doesn't seem like a
00:56:07
◼
►
good fit he doesn't it doesn't seem like
00:56:08
◼
►
it would have to be in the cards that
00:56:09
◼
►
the readouts guy would ever rise you
00:56:12
◼
►
know that if you know you can in theory
00:56:14
◼
►
you could see it like Johnny I've the
00:56:16
◼
►
design guy if he wanted to be CEO that
00:56:19
◼
►
you know it wouldn't play if they said
00:56:21
◼
►
hey you know hooks retiring jony ive's
00:56:24
◼
►
the new CEO i think that would play I I
00:56:27
◼
►
think Schiller would play you know sure
00:56:29
◼
►
and i and I've said this before it many
00:56:33
◼
►
times that he's you know what people
00:56:35
◼
►
think of his marketing is not what Apple
00:56:37
◼
►
thinks of his marketing he's not just in
00:56:39
◼
►
charge of ads you know and and stuff
00:56:41
◼
►
like that if you know what sugar does it
00:56:44
◼
►
would totally play that he could be the
00:56:45
◼
►
CEO like the the retail guy no matter
00:56:47
◼
►
how good their retail is it just doesn't
00:56:50
◼
►
play but anyway he did leave after Jobs
00:56:53
◼
►
was gone and so the whole thing of how
00:56:55
◼
►
do we replace ron johnson and keep the
00:56:57
◼
►
retail thing going was all on cook and
00:57:00
◼
►
it was you know as soon as it was
00:57:01
◼
►
announced everybody who is familiar with
00:57:03
◼
►
that those shitty stores that Brown ran
00:57:05
◼
►
in England I forget what they were
00:57:09
◼
►
called but everybody in the UK the
00:57:11
◼
►
announces and everybody in the UK who
00:57:12
◼
►
knew was like what the hell is Apple
00:57:14
◼
►
doing this customers suck
00:57:16
◼
►
yeah they're like the whole reason the
00:57:18
◼
►
apple stores are successful there like
00:57:19
◼
►
the anti apple stores and I was like
00:57:22
◼
►
well I don't know maybe the guy you know
00:57:24
◼
►
right that's what I thought too i was so
00:57:25
◼
►
I wanted to give you the benefit of the
00:57:28
◼
►
right i thought well maybe in turns out
00:57:29
◼
►
I was wrong no it turns out that the
00:57:32
◼
►
snap judgment from the people in England
00:57:33
◼
►
was exactly right
00:57:35
◼
►
I the guys like a hack which seems weird
00:57:38
◼
►
yeah just seems weird I kinda feel like
00:57:39
◼
►
if you got Tim cooked in front of you
00:57:41
◼
►
and you can ask him about it i feel like
00:57:43
◼
►
you know you something along the lines
00:57:46
◼
►
of look disguise stores in England he
00:57:48
◼
►
came from these stories that are unlike
00:57:50
◼
►
yeah what did you see that you thought
00:57:53
◼
►
might be right exactly right i think
00:57:56
◼
►
that would explain that initial decision
00:57:57
◼
►
right I feel like he could have held his
00:57:59
◼
►
feet to the fire their eyebrows a little
00:58:01
◼
►
bit where ya forestall thing you know
00:58:03
◼
►
they did cover it well but he didn't get
00:58:04
◼
►
back to proud I guess they think that
00:58:06
◼
►
that's the four-star things more
00:58:08
◼
►
interesting but and I can see that but
00:58:11
◼
►
it also in a way it's more interesting
00:58:15
◼
►
to figure out what happened with brown
00:58:16
◼
►
like how that does that went wrong right
00:58:19
◼
►
and I kind of feel like you know if
00:58:21
◼
►
there is like a you know like you said
00:58:22
◼
►
earlier like looking for chinks in the
00:58:25
◼
►
armor and yeah and yeah I could that
00:58:27
◼
►
would seem like a bigger one than I then
00:58:30
◼
►
the forestall situation right and I
00:58:32
◼
►
wonder about the you know it's obviously
00:58:35
◼
►
mostly speculative we don't know the
00:58:37
◼
►
internal but the speculation is that we
00:58:39
◼
►
do know that cook is a big numbers guy
00:58:41
◼
►
and he's an operations guy and you know
00:58:44
◼
►
we know that that some of the things
00:58:46
◼
►
that this proud guy did when he was in
00:58:48
◼
►
charge of apple retail seemed sort of
00:58:51
◼
►
operationally you know like cognac hours
00:58:54
◼
►
doing those tricks where you get you
00:58:55
◼
►
know make sure nobody gets more than 37
00:58:59
◼
►
and a half hours he taunted him his
00:59:00
◼
►
full-time employees and stuff like that
00:59:03
◼
►
anyway stuff that made the employees
00:59:05
◼
►
that wasn't good for the employees and
00:59:07
◼
►
sort of put like a if gone in that
00:59:10
◼
►
direction would make the stores the
00:59:11
◼
►
worst experience but and a bean counter
00:59:15
◼
►
level seemingly makes sense you know
00:59:17
◼
►
makes sense if you're looking at the
00:59:19
◼
►
store through an Excel spreadsheet
00:59:20
◼
►
instead of actually being in the store I
00:59:24
◼
►
and that's sort of like the fear with
00:59:27
◼
►
cook right that he's the numbers guy
00:59:29
◼
►
that he's gonna start running the
00:59:31
◼
►
company in a numbers focused way
00:59:34
◼
►
yeah right as opposed to Steve Jobs who
00:59:38
◼
►
you know he like came in and he was mad
00:59:41
◼
►
at the first stores opened up and he was
00:59:42
◼
►
pissed about like the scuff marks on the
00:59:47
◼
►
so he like I don't know if you went to
00:59:49
◼
►
himself what the story is but they like
00:59:51
◼
►
went to Venice and got like some kind of
00:59:53
◼
►
like you can only get it in the Venice
00:59:55
◼
►
granite stone that they polished certain
01:00:00
◼
►
to make this that's how I that's what
01:00:01
◼
►
we're going to use for the floors from
01:00:03
◼
►
yeah right doesn't make any financial
01:00:05
◼
►
sense at all
01:00:07
◼
►
goddammit get some hot wax right but
01:00:11
◼
►
just goddamn band the floors are nice
01:00:13
◼
►
some italian yacht wax shiny floors up
01:00:18
◼
►
I i like the story about him talking to
01:00:23
◼
►
steve about being about taking over
01:00:25
◼
►
yeah and trying trying to fight right
01:00:28
◼
►
now but were eventually he kept asking
01:00:33
◼
►
him like you know is which one because
01:00:35
◼
►
he was going to jobs is gonna becomes
01:00:37
◼
►
chairman of the board and cook would be
01:00:41
◼
►
CEO right is that the way that is
01:00:44
◼
►
yeah and then he kept asking manager
01:00:45
◼
►
sure this is what you were doing it and
01:00:48
◼
►
finally he said I'm sure stop asking
01:00:51
◼
►
he all right now this is really you know
01:00:55
◼
►
is one of the best I I didn't want a
01:00:57
◼
►
block quote because it was a guy I
01:01:01
◼
►
didn't want to spoil it in the article
01:01:03
◼
►
its its way at the bottom so via the
01:01:04
◼
►
internet any of you out there started
01:01:06
◼
►
reading this long interview and cut got
01:01:07
◼
►
halfway to really stick with it I mean
01:01:10
◼
►
here's the here's the party says this is
01:01:16
◼
►
cook talking one weekend he called me
01:01:18
◼
►
and he said I'd like to talk to you this
01:01:20
◼
►
was in the summer of 11 I said fine when
01:01:23
◼
►
and typical Steve fashion is it now
01:01:26
◼
►
great and write a typical so I go over
01:01:29
◼
►
to his house and i still remember how he
01:01:31
◼
►
started this discussion said there has
01:01:32
◼
►
never been a professional transition at
01:01:35
◼
►
the CEO level and apple he said our
01:01:37
◼
►
company has done a lot of great things
01:01:38
◼
►
but it's never done this one last guy is
01:01:40
◼
►
always fired and then someone new comes
01:01:42
◼
►
in he goes I want there to be a
01:01:44
◼
►
professional CEO transition and I've
01:01:47
◼
►
decided and i'm recommending to the
01:01:48
◼
►
board that you be the CEO i'm going to
01:01:51
◼
►
be the chairman and it goes on it's
01:01:54
◼
►
really good that's you know
01:02:00
◼
►
I hope they help their able to keep up
01:02:04
◼
►
crazy stories like this
01:02:08
◼
►
yeah you know even the hook jobs going
01:02:11
◼
►
but she's just like and I don't know how
01:02:14
◼
►
you do that because it's like it's
01:02:16
◼
►
little stuff like that that makes it i
01:02:19
◼
►
mean her love stories like that and
01:02:21
◼
►
having worked at a company
01:02:22
◼
►
those are those are always the best I
01:02:25
◼
►
mean you just if you have a story like
01:02:27
◼
►
that it part in a really it sounds
01:02:29
◼
►
stupid but it actually helps build the
01:02:31
◼
►
culture of the company
01:02:32
◼
►
yeah if you can tell crazy stories are
01:02:36
◼
►
just great nutty things about the
01:02:38
◼
►
executives and stuff that's fun not you
01:02:40
◼
►
know people get yeah well I mean it's
01:02:43
◼
►
also kind of fun to hear about people
01:02:44
◼
►
getting fired in the elevator but
01:02:45
◼
►
there's the old one about cook the one
01:02:48
◼
►
and you know you don't hear these
01:02:50
◼
►
stories angle but there's the one about
01:02:51
◼
►
their something was going wrong in China
01:02:54
◼
►
and need one he said you pointed to the
01:02:57
◼
►
one guy heating and said okay you're the
01:02:59
◼
►
one that fix it and then like five
01:03:01
◼
►
minutes later looked up and said what
01:03:02
◼
►
are you still doing here and the guy got
01:03:05
◼
►
really good one
01:03:06
◼
►
any guy got haywire like dinner still on
01:03:09
◼
►
a plane right he did he touch with that
01:03:11
◼
►
they said the guy did though he didn't
01:03:13
◼
►
even go home he liked guys car cook told
01:03:15
◼
►
his wife I gotta go to China and he just
01:03:17
◼
►
drove drunk in san jose airport and
01:03:19
◼
►
booked a ticket to China will buy some
01:03:22
◼
►
clothes there right yeah it probably
01:03:25
◼
►
yeah guys like spend two weeks in China
01:03:30
◼
►
where like ill-fitting clothing that
01:03:36
◼
►
ok i'll get one at the factory yeah
01:03:39
◼
►
there anything else going on this week
01:03:43
◼
►
terrific five came out yeah I'm gotten
01:03:48
◼
►
yet but well as I do i do enjoy the
01:03:51
◼
►
terrific is that you're using your
01:03:53
◼
►
twitter client of choice i go back and
01:03:55
◼
►
forth and i used to use but I do use
01:03:59
◼
►
both these Tweetbot and twitterrific
01:04:00
◼
►
yeah it's really and on and on iOS is
01:04:04
◼
►
both yeah it's really good and I kind of
01:04:06
◼
►
feel like they're they're doing a
01:04:08
◼
►
skating to where the puck is going to be
01:04:12
◼
►
thing with the aesthetics
01:04:14
◼
►
of the app is that it's it i know that
01:04:19
◼
►
the whole skeuomorphism thing it's such
01:04:21
◼
►
an overused word and it means more than
01:04:24
◼
►
just the textures right that like and
01:04:28
◼
►
and that it was an interview with Lauren
01:04:30
◼
►
Richter of letterpress fame with erica
01:04:33
◼
►
OGG by Erica eigen you go on this week
01:04:36
◼
►
he mentioned it that skeuomorphism is
01:04:39
◼
►
more than just the visual textures and
01:04:41
◼
►
putting sticks leather it's the things
01:04:43
◼
►
like when you've turned a page and it
01:04:45
◼
►
looks like a piece of paper as you turn
01:04:47
◼
►
the page whether it's good or bad it's
01:04:48
◼
►
you know it's more than just what it
01:04:50
◼
►
looks like but I feel like twitterrific
01:04:53
◼
►
is this new version 5 is going in this
01:04:56
◼
►
opposite direction of just talking about
01:05:00
◼
►
the textures and stuff like that sort of
01:05:02
◼
►
taking them all out and and going in
01:05:05
◼
►
this minimalist flat
01:05:06
◼
►
yeah the least chrome you can get away
01:05:10
◼
►
with and you know it Windows 8 is
01:05:16
◼
►
obviously in that direction but this
01:05:17
◼
►
doesn't look anything you know there's
01:05:19
◼
►
no one way to do it if you know what I
01:05:20
◼
►
mean yeah it's a similar concept but
01:05:23
◼
►
it's but it's um it's nicer in the same
01:05:26
◼
►
way that like is well here's a good
01:05:31
◼
►
example like the difference between
01:05:32
◼
►
apples aqua interface and the windows
01:05:36
◼
►
vista interface which were both largely
01:05:39
◼
►
based on this sort of plasticky
01:05:41
◼
►
translucency glass shadows transparency
01:05:46
◼
►
sort of aesthetic you can go very
01:05:48
◼
►
different ways with it what I one can
01:05:50
◼
►
look pretty good in one can
01:05:52
◼
►
yeah and look like you know you got it
01:05:53
◼
►
came yeah I there's different ways to do
01:05:56
◼
►
minimalism 2i and I kind of feel like I
01:06:00
◼
►
do kind of feel like that's what Jony
01:06:02
◼
►
ive has been talking about like when is
01:06:03
◼
►
little hints about the aesthetics of the
01:06:07
◼
►
OS you know and edited the little sort
01:06:09
◼
►
of knows quickly made when the guy from
01:06:11
◼
►
The Guardian asked him about it was the
01:06:13
◼
►
guardian whoever it was asked him about
01:06:14
◼
►
this stitched leather you know that is
01:06:17
◼
►
not really being true to the hardware
01:06:18
◼
►
twitterrific 5i think is a really
01:06:21
◼
►
interesting example of that I kind of
01:06:23
◼
►
feel like like like I contractor has
01:06:25
◼
►
jumped ahead
01:06:27
◼
►
of this state-of-the-art for athletics
01:06:29
◼
►
letterpress is another example of that
01:06:34
◼
►
you play the last y'all
01:06:35
◼
►
yeah you have we played yet we have not
01:06:38
◼
►
played now we probably should
01:06:39
◼
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oh man that should be like my new rule
01:06:41
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for getting people on the show we gotta
01:06:42
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plan to play the letterpress yeah but
01:06:47
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yea letterpress is another example of
01:06:49
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that and that's you know that's where it
01:06:50
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came up in Laurens interview with Erica
01:06:53
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you know that there's obviously this
01:06:55
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minimalist death aesthetic on but it
01:07:01
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doesn't mean undesigned right there's
01:07:03
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it's harder to explain because when
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something is like a visual texture that
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design jumps right out at you where is
01:07:10
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it's more about the subtleties
01:07:12
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yeah like but when you move tiles around
01:07:15
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and letterpress it's not like there's
01:07:16
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nothing going on there's something very
01:07:18
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fancy going on where it's sort of
01:07:20
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jiggles in and it says jaunty little and
01:07:23
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even when you fire it up and it does
01:07:24
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that little that little rotating yeah
01:07:26
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thingamabob whatever it is
01:07:28
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yeah you know what that is its that's
01:07:31
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the eight bits logo
01:07:32
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oh that's right it's eight minutes right
01:07:36
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and the way it rotates is it goes seven
01:07:39
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times clockwise and then that the eighth
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goes counterclockwise and I will go
01:07:44
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seven clockwise for the inside sounds
01:07:49
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like the thing from Indiana Jones what
01:07:52
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will take one take one back 500 got one
01:07:56
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back Ilana yeah exactly
01:07:59
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they're digging in the wrong place i
01:08:01
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gotta play in leather place but anyway
01:08:03
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letterpress is another example and again
01:08:04
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letterpress and twitterrific five are
01:08:07
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both super super distinctive don't look
01:08:10
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anything at all like each other really
01:08:11
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except that there's a sort of Shh
01:08:15
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I don't know there's something to its
01:08:17
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kinda hard to talk about but I feel like
01:08:18
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there's like a shared sense of this is
01:08:20
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where you sensibility yeah yeah and I
01:08:24
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really think that they did good work
01:08:26
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ethic I feel like congratulations to all
01:08:30
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our friends that
01:08:31
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yeah an apple seems to get that kind of
01:08:34
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me when there was nothing in the
01:08:35
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interview was that he was talking about
01:08:37
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sort of a whole held up an iphone i
01:08:39
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guess this was in the
01:08:40
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the maybe the scene with the in the NBC
01:08:44
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yeah and he held up the iphone and
01:08:45
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talked about with Rocco see how the face
01:08:51
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of it is the operating system I forget
01:08:54
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exactly what he said but just that it
01:08:57
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you know and we've talked about this
01:08:59
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before but now it's just it's like a
01:09:00
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glass and you just have a glass front
01:09:02
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and then you're interacting with the
01:09:04
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operating system right there and that's
01:09:05
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the that's their design ethic right so I
01:09:16
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say we call it show all right i want to
01:09:18
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say one thing I never mentioned this is
01:09:20
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one thing I just don't mention it hears
01:09:21
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that I want to talk about the the
01:09:22
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sponsorship anybody out there listens to
01:09:24
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the show you got a product or service
01:09:26
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that you think the talk show audience
01:09:28
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would be interested in
01:09:29
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I get in touch i don't really have a
01:09:31
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good mechanism for this I have a really
01:09:33
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nice little page for during fireball
01:09:34
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sponsorships people go there and they
01:09:36
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can see the schedule and there's a
01:09:38
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little email address i don't have
01:09:39
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anything like that for the talk show i
01:09:40
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feel like its it i don't know i gotta
01:09:44
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set something up but in the meantime
01:09:45
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just go to the daring fireball
01:09:47
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sponsorship page go to during fireball
01:09:49
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click on sponsorships just click the
01:09:50
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email there and tell me that you want to
01:09:52
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sponsor the talk show instead of daring
01:09:54
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fireball on but I've got some good guess
01:09:57
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already lined up not molt's good guess
01:09:59
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for the next couple of episodes and
01:10:04
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there's a couple of sponsorship spots
01:10:05
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open on all of them so anybody out there
01:10:08
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you got a product or service that that
01:10:10
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you want this this audience to know
01:10:12
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about get in touch now most thank you
01:10:15
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very much for being so yeah
01:10:17
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oh you're welcome the best