The Talk Show

26: Steve Wouldn’t Eat An Energy Bar, with John Moltz


00:00:00   multi had the had the article in the

00:00:03   magazine i really liked that I of i say

00:00:06   this with the no hyperbole but it's my

00:00:09   favorite article from the magazine

00:00:11   Wow five issues and I should just I

00:00:13   should get off right now

00:00:15   now it's pretty let's get all downhill

00:00:16   from here so wait this conversation gets

00:00:19   any better than that

00:00:20   yeah i'm not going to spoil it but

00:00:22   everybody if you don't read in the

00:00:23   magazines or not because you're not

00:00:26   right yeah there's some great

00:00:28   there's just been some great pieces in

00:00:29   there Jason snails piece this week was

00:00:31   particularly good you know what I

00:00:32   haven't read that yet because I yeah

00:00:34   well you wait was because that's why

00:00:36   that's why you think mine is better and

00:00:38   why you think mines the best because i

00:00:39   read yours is just don't question is is

00:00:42   better i was an issue behind so I read

00:00:44   the issue for and then I opened up issue

00:00:46   5 and I read your piece and chuckled and

00:00:48   then I opened his and I saw where it was

00:00:50   going and it was real late i was like

00:00:51   sleepy and I was like you know what this

00:00:53   is not i'm going to read this one

00:00:55   yeah little heavy but yeah yeah it's

00:00:59   great stuff going on there

00:01:00   ya know it's really it's like it's a

00:01:02   good read every every time it comes out

00:01:04   to every two weeks right

00:01:05   every two weeks i believe ya and way you

00:01:10   know what I guess I i have a you know I

00:01:12   guess I'm just it's weird because it's

00:01:14   like a big circle of my friends like

00:01:16   rights you know Glenn was on the show

00:01:17   two weeks ago that you're on what's his

00:01:23   name has been on already

00:01:25   you know the guy marker and marking on

00:01:31   the show that guy huh

00:01:34   I but it's you know it's just really

00:01:37   good and I think it's funny how it its

00:01:39   it has come out and it's a new thing and

00:01:43   so what five issues two weeks so it's

00:01:46   like been like 10 weeks like a month and

00:01:48   i had two months two and a half months

00:01:49   or so since it debuted I and it's like

00:01:53   starting to settle in and you know I I

00:01:56   don't think it's a hit but it's clearly

00:01:58   successful it succeeded Marco is

00:02:00   admitted that it's you know it's it's

00:02:01   above you know like the minimum number

00:02:04   of paying subscribers that he thought he

00:02:05   needed

00:02:06   yeah on but probably shouldn't point out

00:02:09   that publishing on the ipad is dead

00:02:11   right and now public

00:02:13   and the ipad is dead because you know

00:02:14   it's too bad it's too bad he got in

00:02:16   because it's a because it just died and

00:02:20   it's just there's a couple of things

00:02:22   that to me make it so it is such a neat

00:02:25   fit to compare and contrast with the

00:02:27   daily even just starting with the names

00:02:31   you know that they have this both have

00:02:32   these sort of the overly generic names

00:02:36   right the magnetizing the daily one of

00:02:39   them is this huge 25 million dollar your

00:02:41   operation from you know what most people

00:02:45   many people would argue is like the most

00:02:47   evil people publishing corporation in

00:02:50   the world Rupert Murdoch's News Corp and

00:02:53   then the other is you know tiny little

00:02:55   one-man operation it equally evil but I

00:03:00   you know is it to man-to-man now to now

00:03:04   to announce you man yeah so closer

00:03:06   inching closer to 2 News Corp right and

00:03:14   I just you know it's ji I was I

00:03:16   shouldn't be surprised but I was

00:03:18   surprised at when the dailies demise was

00:03:22   announced I guess on monday this week

00:03:24   and I just how quickly so many people

00:03:27   jump to the conclusion that it was proof

00:03:30   that I pattern publishing is impossible

00:03:33   I mean that's actually would feel

00:03:34   examine you actually use the word

00:03:36   impossible yeah yeah I think he's a

00:03:38   little he's a little chase and about it

00:03:39   now

00:03:40   to his credit he is a they noted that

00:03:44   maybe he was you want too far

00:03:46   yeah and you know and he's normally

00:03:47   either really really a fairly reasonable

00:03:50   guy right yeah it's very good

00:03:52   it's really be no he-he's you know usual

00:03:56   financial coverage is spot-on is one of

00:03:58   my favorites I thought he covered the

00:03:59   whole unfortunate fiscal collapse and

00:04:03   and almost right black hole cratering of

00:04:06   the entire global economy for years ago

00:04:08   as well as anybody I really did I really

00:04:11   felt like he was one of my go-to guys to

00:04:13   like tell me what the hell's going on

00:04:15   and tell me that I shouldn't just the

00:04:18   action and get gold and put it in put it

00:04:20   in my mattress and buy a shotgun you

00:04:24   haven't done that now I did my dad's

00:04:26   name

00:04:26   like I was everything ok ok you seem

00:04:29   like you might do that you know you seem

00:04:30   like the type it was you know I

00:04:33   considered it

00:04:34   yeah well it's worth thinking about I

00:04:38   but yeah he really jumped to the

00:04:40   ultimate conclusion that it was proof

00:04:41   that its stead it's impossible and i

00:04:45   think you know it's it all comes back to

00:04:48   a lot of these other theories about

00:04:49   disruption that that you know that like

00:04:51   the whole clayton christensen which is a

00:04:54   book called yeah you know the guy i

00:05:00   don't know that guy and he got this look

00:05:03   them up i believe I'm drawing a blank on

00:05:07   facebook name is it just looks a big fan

00:05:11   disruptive innovation yeah is that the

00:05:13   that's not the name of the book though

00:05:15   that's not the end of the book okay

00:05:16   innovators dilemma

00:05:19   oh yeah okay i mean i know that 1i yeah

00:05:21   I haven't read it or no other yeah I've

00:05:22   heard people talk about it which is all

00:05:24   i need

00:05:24   that's right yeah but his big theory is

00:05:27   always that you know it's you know it's

00:05:28   like mammals vs dinosaurs stating that

00:05:30   the disruption always comes from the low

00:05:32   end you know needs these great case

00:05:36   examples about like what put like steel

00:05:38   industry you know how to business were

00:05:39   these little like places that just

00:05:43   melted down junk steel and the bday

00:05:46   eventually got so good at it so

00:05:47   efficient added that they ended up you

00:05:50   know being a better way to battle far

00:05:51   cheaper way to manufacture high-quality

00:05:53   steel than the traditional steel

00:05:56   foundries and etcetera etcetera etcetera

00:05:57   but that you're always a disruption

00:06:00   always is dismissed by the entrenched

00:06:02   because it looks inconsequential or

00:06:06   cheaper low-end or something like that

00:06:08   it and i think it seems likely that the

00:06:14   eventual disruption of apple if it ever

00:06:16   happens would be similar right yeah I

00:06:19   from so much some corner of the

00:06:20   unexpected corners and not from

00:06:24   Microsoft not from google write some

00:06:26   other place right some other place that

00:06:28   you would never expect and that will be

00:06:30   dismissed for you know possibly for good

00:06:32   reasons you know right i was talking

00:06:35   about this before but he was like in The

00:06:36   New Yorker

00:06:37   profile of clayton christensen David's

00:06:40   you know he said one of the things that

00:06:41   you know he's wrong about and I love a

00:06:43   guy anybody you get big points in my

00:06:45   book anybody who's you know supposed to

00:06:46   be a guru but talks about the times that

00:06:48   they're wrong to me that's like two

00:06:51   pluses right there you know in terms of

00:06:53   excellent absolutely and he admits he

00:06:55   was totally wrong about the iphone he

00:06:56   predicted when the iphone first came out

00:06:58   that it wasn't really gonna have much of

00:06:59   an effect on the phone industry because

00:07:02   it was a high-end product that it you

00:07:05   know that that disruption was going to

00:07:06   come from the low end and in hindsight

00:07:09   years later he admits he was wrong

00:07:10   because what he didn't understand at

00:07:12   first and i think this is brilliant

00:07:14   insight is that the iphone wasn't really

00:07:16   a high-end phone it was a low-end

00:07:18   portable computer right it's like this

00:07:21   crummy little three-and-a-half inch

00:07:23   screen laptop but because it's so small

00:07:27   and tiny and lightweight and lasts all

00:07:29   day and has wireless internet everywhere

00:07:31   you go it completely disrupted the

00:07:34   computer industry and the phone industry

00:07:36   at the same time because you didn't need

00:07:37   a phone if you had the right which is I

00:07:40   think a brilliant way of looking at it

00:07:41   and you know I so i'm not saying that

00:07:46   Marcos the magazine is going to itself

00:07:50   put that other magazines out of business

00:07:52   but to me it's the exact sort of thing

00:07:55   that fits in with that line of

00:07:57   disruptive thinking know that it's it

00:07:58   things like the magazine are where the

00:08:04   future is and I can totally see how if

00:08:06   you pitch that to somebody it you know

00:08:09   news corporation or time or something

00:08:12   like that that they would just dismiss

00:08:14   it and i would say it's just some guy

00:08:15   every two weeks putting out 5 750 word

00:08:20   essays that's that's nothing

00:08:22   you know that what would you know that

00:08:23   has nothing to do with what we're trying

00:08:25   to do and i would say no it has

00:08:26   everything with what you're trying to do

00:08:27   which in a nutshell is exactly what's

00:08:30   been wrong with the traditional

00:08:32   publishing industries response to the

00:08:33   Internet

00:08:34   yep I mean it's like that's all it's the

00:08:36   whole thing it's the whole thing all

00:08:38   over again I mean no one's going to

00:08:39   trust no instrument trusts blogs no one

00:08:41   trusts independent reporters they are

00:08:44   they want a big organization like like

00:08:46   ours right with editors and managers and

00:08:50   a whole advertising department right and

00:08:53   the same way to that that most most

00:08:56   traditional if you get if you just tell

00:08:59   me you don't tell me the name of the the

00:09:01   publication but just say this is a

00:09:02   big-name publication with national

00:09:04   circulation they've been around for a

00:09:06   long time I is their website any good

00:09:09   i'm gonna guess now right that they tend

00:09:12   to most existing traditional

00:09:14   publications have really bad websites

00:09:16   without yeah I almost with almost

00:09:20   without exception and they were

00:09:21   especially bad at first like nineteen

00:09:25   ninety-six ninety-seven ninety-eight

00:09:26   they just didn't get it and you know I

00:09:30   remember I mean and and there were big

00:09:32   ideas from I even knew things things

00:09:36   that weren't rooted in the past but

00:09:38   which were from people rooted in the

00:09:40   past like and I'm thinking of slate in

00:09:42   particular right which was all staffed

00:09:44   with people from traditional backgrounds

00:09:47   in weekly magazines and that if I think

00:09:51   it was wasn't it jointly with Microsoft

00:09:53   at first yeah I think so yeah it was

00:09:56   like Microsoft and when Microsoft in the

00:09:59   nineties resent to trying to become like

00:10:00   a media company when they when they got

00:10:03   involved with NBC for MSNBC and they

00:10:07   co-founded a magazine on and the thing I

00:10:11   remember thinking was so weird is icon

00:10:12   slate debuted is it

00:10:14   it debuted it was all that was was a

00:10:16   website there was no print version is

00:10:18   just a website and yet they still had

00:10:19   weekly issues and end it you would like

00:10:24   be like wednesday and here's the new

00:10:25   issue of slave come back next wednesday

00:10:27   right that you get locked into this way

00:10:31   of thinking and slate you know it's

00:10:32   still around they're still doing good

00:10:34   work but they you know they obviously

00:10:35   abandoned that issue idea and it's hard

00:10:37   it's really really hard when you think

00:10:40   in terms of issues it's really hard to

00:10:42   sort of zoom back and and think about a

00:10:45   new medium right so that uh only one of

00:10:51   the questions I wanted to talk to you

00:10:53   about what which have been thinking

00:10:55   about just the last few days because

00:10:57   everybody keeps talking about Apple

00:10:59   apples eventual decline right so many

00:11:03   people think

00:11:04   it's already happening for some strange

00:11:06   reason that i was beyond my

00:11:07   comprehension but I think about this and

00:11:11   I wonder if it's going to be easier for

00:11:15   us to see that or harder for people like

00:11:17   us to see that you know that is a very

00:11:20   good question i do think about that all

00:11:22   the time I i would like to think that we

00:11:28   would see it that you and I and yeah you

00:11:32   know the people who like I like to have

00:11:33   on the show

00:11:34   OMG but i wonder i do wonder that

00:11:39   whether we've got even you know that we

00:11:42   think we're being i like to think that

00:11:44   we would see it I can them and one of

00:11:47   the reasons i think that is because in

00:11:48   the past few weeks there have been a

00:11:50   couple pieces published that are sort of

00:11:52   thoughtful looks at things that Apple is

00:11:54   good at and not good at and I i forget

00:11:59   that the name of someone who who you'd

00:12:03   like to just yesterday the day before

00:12:05   but it was about apples in a bit seeming

00:12:09   inability to get cloud services patrick

00:12:12   thompson ya done really correctly and a

00:12:15   night and I thought your conclusion was

00:12:17   was exactly right that it doesn't seem

00:12:18   like it

00:12:19   buying Twitter is really is really the

00:12:22   right solution to that problem but it

00:12:24   but it's true it seems to be for

00:12:26   whatever reason a blind spot for them

00:12:30   and then the other piece was I Michael

00:12:36   ops piece on forestall being really

00:12:41   leaving and how innovation really often

00:12:46   needs argument me and that he wondered

00:12:52   if getting rid of forestall means that

00:12:55   there would be less argument and if that

00:12:57   was a good thing for innovation or bad

00:12:59   thing for renovation right then maybe

00:13:01   the contention within the upper ranks

00:13:03   maybe it was unpleasant day-to-day to

00:13:06   deal with but maybe it was the best

00:13:07   thing for ya

00:13:10   maybe it was the best thing for the

00:13:12   company going forward

00:13:13   yeah and I i just love those both those

00:13:16   pieces

00:13:17   my head together because I thought that

00:13:18   they were thoughtful pieces on

00:13:21   ok maybe these are blind spots of apples

00:13:23   that could be concerning the future

00:13:25   without being over-the-top you know

00:13:28   apples doomed right is and this is the

00:13:32   obvious sign of their decline i I've

00:13:34   I've mentioned this before

00:13:36   ah I don't think for long it's been a

00:13:39   long time but probably on the show maybe

00:13:41   it was the old show with Dan but that I

00:13:45   have long thought that it's like this

00:13:48   sort of i was theory is giving it way

00:13:50   too much credence but let's call it my

00:13:52   theory of first impressions and that

00:13:56   we're hooked up evolutionarily primarily

00:14:00   all of the things we really ever cared

00:14:02   about where a small circle of the other

00:14:03   human beings you ever possibly encounter

00:14:05   know there's that that number of you

00:14:08   know like a hundred and fifty is like

00:14:09   most number of people you can have any

00:14:11   kind of emotional bond with and we're

00:14:15   hooking up to or 55 in my case the eggs

00:14:18   right there with your body for real

00:14:28   before I was exaggerating its gonna make

00:14:32   a joke about that there's a reason that

00:14:34   we generally have one kitten

00:14:36   nah it's always it's you actually to but

00:14:47   I at but my theory is more or less that

00:14:52   we're hooked up to you meet other people

00:14:54   if somebody hadn't met before

00:14:56   you should have a good instinct that you

00:14:59   should be able to make a good first

00:15:00   impression and accurate first impression

00:15:02   is this someone you should trust is it

00:15:04   someone you shouldn't trust is it

00:15:05   someone you like and you know not that

00:15:08   we're never wrong and not that first

00:15:09   impression sometimes are unsurprisingly

00:15:11   misleading but in general where we're

00:15:14   really good at that and as evolution and

00:15:16   there's really strong evolutionary

00:15:17   reasons to do to be like that but I also

00:15:20   think that first impressions solidified

00:15:22   very quickly and and when you're dealing

00:15:24   with people people don't change that

00:15:26   much right once you get to know someone

00:15:28   don't even think i'm not even talking

00:15:29   about like your

00:15:30   30 second first impression but like I

00:15:33   just met you you're the new guy in the

00:15:35   office and you know we meet and we you

00:15:38   know the course of a couple of weeks we

00:15:40   get to know each other 10 years from now

00:15:42   you're not going to be that different

00:15:43   right you're still the same person

00:15:44   unless you know you get hit the head or

00:15:47   something like that but that's often

00:15:48   very hard to deal with like if you've

00:15:50   ever met anybody who's had a head injury

00:15:53   it's it's often it will throw you off

00:15:55   because you think that they're the same

00:15:56   and because they're not isn't it it's

00:16:00   really hard for families to deal with

00:16:01   that I mean I know trying to make light

00:16:03   of it i and i think that a lot of people

00:16:08   when it comes

00:16:09   we're not hooked up to deal with

00:16:10   something like Apple which is an

00:16:12   incredibly different company than what

00:16:14   it used to be but so many people

00:16:16   especially businesspeople investors and

00:16:19   business writers invested writers and

00:16:22   stuff like that have this impression of

00:16:24   apple from the nineties that is that

00:16:27   still what they see is apple and there's

00:16:30   just nothing that's going to it we're

00:16:32   gonna have to wait until they get sold

00:16:35   that they retire before it really the

00:16:37   company really shakes that right and

00:16:39   that it's still seen as this little guy

00:16:42   or the upstart or the the the deviant

00:16:45   from the norm in the industry and so you

00:16:48   still see people talking about Apple

00:16:50   like that when Apple gets in trouble

00:16:52   that they could go under go down or just

00:16:55   completely collapse like that's actually

00:16:57   impossible at this point apple is so big

00:16:59   and so successful that the worst thing

00:17:01   that would happen i think is stagnation

00:17:04   right like sort of more or less what

00:17:07   happened to microsoft and that's and

00:17:09   that's the other thing that people tend

00:17:10   to do is they they want to apply then

00:17:13   they always want to do this they want to

00:17:15   apply something that happened in the

00:17:17   past they want they want to say that's

00:17:19   the pc wars between the mac and windows

00:17:24   are exactly the same as what's going on

00:17:26   between iOS and Android right now and

00:17:28   none of these things ever repeat

00:17:29   themselves exactly the same way right

00:17:32   and and they want to say that

00:17:33   oh my god Apple's the new microsoft

00:17:35   right I or that androids the new windows

00:17:41   and iOS is young man

00:17:43   again but you know that the numbers are

00:17:45   so staggeringly different that it

00:17:46   doesn't make any sense to think of it

00:17:48   that way and I also in the whole

00:17:49   industry is different too i mean it's

00:17:51   not as hard to code I think I don't know

00:17:54   I don't know the reasons for this

00:17:55   particularly because then I'm not a

00:17:57   coder but back in the nineties it was

00:18:00   much more of a trial to try and move

00:18:03   code between to eat between windows on

00:18:06   the mac then and it i think it is today

00:18:08   trying to do it just seems like it's

00:18:11   easier for the day there's a lot more

00:18:12   cross development going on right now I

00:18:16   definitely think so and I don't know why

00:18:17   I like i said i don't know why that that

00:18:19   is but it doesn't seem like it's as big

00:18:21   a deal to try and say okay what we wrote

00:18:23   this for for iOS what's right for

00:18:25   android or vice versa

00:18:27   whereas nobody did that back in very

00:18:31   very limited number of large

00:18:32   applications were quoted for both

00:18:34   platforms back in the nineties yeah i

00:18:37   think that there's some that's a good

00:18:40   guys actually probably good question for

00:18:42   the whole for like a whole show but i

00:18:43   think part of it is that that back then

00:18:46   computers were so meager technically so

00:18:49   much slower cpu so such by today's

00:18:53   standards such incredibly tiny amounts

00:18:55   of ram

00:18:56   yeah that you really kind of had to

00:18:58   write it right good software down to the

00:19:00   metal arc is closed above the metal as

00:19:04   you can get to make it efficient and

00:19:07   that it was really hard to have like an

00:19:09   abstraction layer that was cross

00:19:11   platform because it involved even a

00:19:13   little bit of overhead it you just

00:19:17   couldn't afford that that any sort of

00:19:18   inefficiency like that I but that is a

00:19:25   good segue that this whole idea of of of

00:19:28   Apple you know what would an apple

00:19:31   declined look like and it is getting rid

00:19:35   of forestall to alleviate contention

00:19:38   good or bad in that direction leads

00:19:41   right into the probably the biggest

00:19:43   thing this week is this extensive

00:19:45   interview with Tim Cook in bloomberg

00:19:49   well what is it businessweek Bloomberg I

00:19:51   don't know what you know what do you

00:19:52   call it

00:19:52   Bloomberg's uber this is bloomberg

00:19:54   businessweek I get really confused about

00:19:56   too because they look totally different

00:19:57   but Bloomberg owns businessweek and the

00:20:00   interview I guess is in the magazines

00:20:02   probably be the cover story I and they

00:20:05   broke it across 11 pages you have to

00:20:07   click 11 different web pages but then if

00:20:08   you go to bloomberg.com you can get the

00:20:10   exact same article on one nice pit don't

00:20:14   understand is talking about the reality

00:20:15   oh yeah but they cover that in the

00:20:18   article there's a part here where that

00:20:22   he sort of asked about forestall and

00:20:27   what does he say here I the question is

00:20:33   the past few weeks you replace two

00:20:35   members of your senior executive t

00:20:36   mobile software head Scott Forstall and

00:20:38   retail chief john browett how do these

00:20:41   moves make apple better which is a

00:20:43   polite way of saying what was wrong and

00:20:45   that's actually that's not me adding

00:20:47   that aside that's actually the question

00:20:48   asked cook book says the key in the

00:20:51   change that you're referencing is my

00:20:53   deep belief that collaboration is

00:20:54   essential for innovation and I didn't

00:20:57   just start believing that I've always

00:20:58   believed that it's always been a core

00:21:00   belief that Apple Steve very deeply

00:21:02   believe this

00:21:03   so the changes it's not a matter of

00:21:05   going from no collaboration to

00:21:07   collaboration we have an enormous level

00:21:09   of collaboration that Apple but it's a

00:21:11   matter of taking it to another level

00:21:13   you look at what we are great at there

00:21:14   are many things but the one thing we do

00:21:16   which I don't know what else does is

00:21:17   integrate hardware software and services

00:21:19   in a way that most consumers begin to

00:21:23   not differentiate anymore they just care

00:21:25   that the experiences fantastic blah blah

00:21:27   blah i wait but then he talks all right

00:21:31   here's what he says Mr Kim cook

00:21:32   continuing he says you don't have silos

00:21:34   built up where everybody is trying to

00:21:36   optimize their silo and figuring out how

00:21:39   to grab turf and all of these things

00:21:41   makes all of our jobs easier so we're

00:21:43   freed up to focus on the things that

00:21:45   truly matter i mean that to me doesn't

00:21:46   mention forestall but clearly that's

00:21:48   talking about forestall who had the the

00:21:52   the silo iOS yeah and kind and it also

00:21:57   sounds like Microsoft to me

00:21:59   not that i know that well how Microsoft

00:22:02   is structured and and if that kind of

00:22:03   thing goes on but they do have it that

00:22:07   that review system where they fit

00:22:09   everybody into a bell curve right and

00:22:12   you know it even if you did great

00:22:15   if they think someone did better than

00:22:17   you you're going to get forced down so

00:22:19   it's like 10 there's like a top 10% that

00:22:21   does really well there's the meat of the

00:22:24   bell curve that's eighty percent and

00:22:27   then the other ten percent of all the

00:22:28   way to force down to the bottom

00:22:30   yeah what's that called actually wanted

00:22:33   to talk more strength forced ranking is

00:22:35   one thing

00:22:36   yeah stack ranking or something like

00:22:38   yeah I actually wanted to talk to lop

00:22:40   about that would have to happen back on

00:22:42   the show but i forgot to when he was on

00:22:44   because you know is he's like wait

00:22:45   the only guy I know who knows anything

00:22:46   about engineering management

00:22:48   yeah but i would love to get his opinion

00:22:50   on that but it's it does seem it seems

00:22:52   like one of those be careful what you

00:22:53   test for on type warnings like the idea

00:22:58   is that if you have a five-person if

00:23:00   your product manager microsoft you have

00:23:02   a five-person team when it comes time to

00:23:04   give the reviews you get you get like

00:23:07   one gold star to give out to goods and I

00:23:10   have to give out to too bad no sad faces

00:23:13   you have to so if you've recruited a

00:23:15   team of five all-stars and you know

00:23:18   which you would think would be a great

00:23:19   way to make a great product you've got

00:23:21   to give two of them bad reviews you have

00:23:23   to and so what you end up getting

00:23:25   everybody seems to agree is that it

00:23:29   doesn't really reward excellence at what

00:23:31   you're doing it rewards excellence at

00:23:34   getting your product manager to give you

00:23:37   the gold star

00:23:38   yeah right you're gonna take your gaming

00:23:40   the game i think it's broader than that

00:23:42   I don't think they may force it down to

00:23:44   the like the team level so i don't think

00:23:46   i don't think you get a situation

00:23:48   whether you were five people and and

00:23:50   somebody gets screwed and even if all

00:23:51   five didn't know it does honestly Reed

00:23:54   is that right is that right really ok

00:23:56   it really is and as I work someplace

00:23:59   that was going to implement the system

00:24:01   and people were just up in arms about it

00:24:04   and eventually backed off of it and now

00:24:06   it was it was going to be more corporate

00:24:10   yday from when I remember at least our

00:24:13   implementation of it was going to be

00:24:15   more corporate one so I said yeah yeah

00:24:18   yeah that's how it works and so you end

00:24:19   up with which is

00:24:20   we're almost to where it let's say you

00:24:21   are really good at what you do you're

00:24:23   really good programmer but you're

00:24:25   thinking about switching to a new team

00:24:28   well it's to your interest to go to that

00:24:29   team if you know there's a couple of

00:24:31   turkeys on because if you're it just

00:24:34   looking out for your career because

00:24:35   you're gonna shine

00:24:36   whereas if you're looking at a team or

00:24:38   you know there's a couple of other

00:24:40   superstars there you might think well

00:24:42   this might hurt my career because I I

00:24:44   don't know that I can I don't know that

00:24:46   I can get a ranking better than those

00:24:47   two guys because they're awesome

00:24:49   yeah just seems terrible it seems

00:24:52   counterproductive and now but it's also

00:24:54   true and i think it's an interesting

00:24:56   contrast though at the senior management

00:24:57   level though where Microsoft is

00:24:59   organized in a way that I think most

00:25:01   companies are by-product divisions right

00:25:03   Steven Sinofsky was the head of windows

00:25:07   8 right and he had nothing to do with

00:25:09   the phone like I remember asking him

00:25:12   because I got to speak to him a little

00:25:13   bit at the thing in New York a couple

00:25:14   weeks ago at the windows 8 launch event

00:25:16   I and they had done a thing i think was

00:25:19   thursday in New York they were debuting

00:25:21   windows 8 and then monday in San

00:25:24   Francisco they were debuting windows

00:25:26   phone 8 and i justjust offhandedly I

00:25:28   asked if he was you know just you know a

00:25:31   way to chat about the weather and

00:25:33   traveled it did he have to hop on a

00:25:35   plane and go all the way back to the

00:25:36   west coast for the monday thing and he

00:25:39   was nine I have nothing to do with that

00:25:40   so he wasn't even go into it and I kind

00:25:43   of thought that you know but they're the

00:25:45   Apple is is organized in a very opposite

00:25:48   way especially now that forestall Scott

00:25:51   like maybe forestall was the equivalent

00:25:52   of Sinofsky was in charge of an

00:25:54   operating system iOS um but now it's not

00:26:00   like that at all

00:26:01   you know Johnny I've is in charge of all

00:26:03   design design of everything your

00:26:05   shoulder is in charge of all marketing

00:26:07   doesn't matter if you have you know

00:26:08   Apple is in charge of iphone marketing

00:26:10   ipad marketing math marketing if Apple

00:26:13   comes out with something totally new

00:26:15   they come out with the apple branded car

00:26:17   will shoulder is in charge of the

00:26:18   marketing of it right Johnny I've is in

00:26:20   charge of the design of it uh it's a

00:26:25   different or it's a very different

00:26:26   organization and that you know i think

00:26:29   it's it's it's a open question whether

00:26:33   that's

00:26:33   that's the better way to do it yeah the

00:26:37   counterpoint I thought of two locks

00:26:39   argument is that it because when you

00:26:42   reach a point where the person one of

00:26:45   the people creating the argument is so

00:26:49   difficult that you either lose you it

00:26:54   becomes harder to get good people in the

00:26:57   other positions right because a lot of

00:26:59   people don't want to deal with that crap

00:27:01   they don't have a don't have to like

00:27:04   have an argument every time they go into

00:27:05   a meeting and it and i think that you

00:27:08   know it had something you know I mean I

00:27:10   played a part in the the thermostat boy

00:27:16   with Tony Fadell Tony Fadell him leaving

00:27:20   and and I think it seemed like it was

00:27:22   playing a part in Big Bob Mansfield

00:27:24   leaving

00:27:25   I am so glad you could call it that but

00:27:28   i always call in five minutes

00:27:30   yeah in a different way that this is

00:27:31   played out has been a little

00:27:33   surprisingly open for apple right like

00:27:36   it seems like the Mansfield thing is is

00:27:39   it just became kind of obvious right

00:27:41   right and I don't know that they were so

00:27:43   open about it necessarily as it just was

00:27:45   like a hope

00:27:46   Oh mansfield on his way out of 4 stars

00:27:50   leaving me that's gonna stick around for

00:27:52   a little while and you can have your

00:27:53   head up a new set up an entirely new

00:27:55   organization

00:27:56   yeah I but there also were reports i

00:28:00   forget who had it but somebody had like

00:28:01   you know sources who wouldn't be named

00:28:04   different familiar with the situation as

00:28:05   they say that that Jony ive was at ya

00:28:11   was refusing to go into any meeting were

00:28:13   forced always gonna be yeah and i think

00:28:15   they said the same about mansfield in

00:28:16   the or maybe at least he didn't I got

00:28:19   220 yeah meetings with forced all right

00:28:21   I and so that you know I while I

00:28:24   understand the argument yet I've got

00:28:26   nothing

00:28:26   you know I like a good argument but when

00:28:28   you have someone is so difficult that

00:28:30   right

00:28:30   he's actually pushing other people you

00:28:32   know very talented people and

00:28:33   particularly you think talk about

00:28:35   mansfield in and cook talks about him in

00:28:37   that interview he is really probably the

00:28:40   best hardware manager anywhere in the in

00:28:44   the technology industry

00:28:45   yeah he's just got to be right at me

00:28:47   because

00:28:47   they make and pick the best hardware and

00:28:49   the guy seems pretty bright and since

00:28:52   he's been there they really have made an

00:28:55   enormous number of innovations you know

00:28:57   yeah just thinking about you know this

00:28:59   whole move to these systems on a chip

00:29:01   I'm the way that they deal with

00:29:04   batteries along yeah yeah I mean we made

00:29:07   fun of that when they when they did the

00:29:08   that the Liberty gives the last macworld

00:29:11   right where we're shoulder was the

00:29:13   keynote and the big announcement was

00:29:15   whatever it was was that there were

00:29:17   integrating the battery we no longer

00:29:20   have removable batteries and write

00:29:21   17-inch macbook pro and they did the big

00:29:26   video was was a video about battery

00:29:28   technology right which was really you

00:29:31   know not exist as exciting as the two

00:29:34   years earlier when they announced the

00:29:35   iphone obviously but at the same time it

00:29:39   turned out to be a better battery

00:29:40   technology is a really important part of

00:29:42   their business

00:29:43   yeah it's you know there's a

00:29:45   self-congratulatory angle on all those

00:29:48   behind the scenes you know talking to

00:29:50   his Jony ive talking about how beautiful

00:29:52   it is Bob Mansfield you know talking

00:29:54   about how amazing this battery is and

00:29:57   there's sort of a who cares aspect to it

00:29:59   i mean there's a reason why they show it

00:30:01   to the press at these things even though

00:30:03   they're superhot production guys and

00:30:05   they don't they're not like when they

00:30:06   put the commercials on TV for Christmas

00:30:08   they're not showing they're not trying

00:30:10   to get people excited about the battery

00:30:12   integration with every great man

00:30:14   ok like that Monday Night Football ad

00:30:18   for with big pot man still talking about

00:30:20   a battery or did or maybe they did the

00:30:23   ones that may be the closest they've

00:30:24   come to that was when they first switch

00:30:26   to intel processors and they had that

00:30:28   thing with the postal service song you

00:30:32   have God they had it they had a

00:30:35   commercial at Apple gonna have the

00:30:38   google this later the band the band the

00:30:41   poster the band is called the postal

00:30:43   yeah i know i know there or maybe that

00:30:46   maybe it was like a ripoff it was a

00:30:48   argue is arguably a ripoff of some music

00:30:51   video had a commercial that showed like

00:30:53   cpus coming down an assembly line you

00:30:57   know

00:30:58   with these yeah robotic things cutting

00:31:00   them up and it was a regular media

00:31:02   I don't know but anyway that was maybe

00:31:06   the closest they came yeah was trying to

00:31:07   get people excited about intel cpus I'm

00:31:10   but it is interesting because i do think

00:31:13   there's insight to be gleaned from these

00:31:15   things about what Apple honestly thinks

00:31:17   is important and what they're proud of

00:31:19   my mom

00:31:22   I you know it they're they're very quiet

00:31:26   they don't say much but when they do say

00:31:28   things i do think and I think it's one

00:31:30   of the things a lot of people don't

00:31:31   understand about Apple there they're

00:31:32   surprisingly forthcoming I i keep

00:31:36   thinking I haven't written about it but

00:31:38   I keep thinking about it goes also going

00:31:41   back to switch from powerpc to Intel it

00:31:45   was a WWDC keynote it did take everybody

00:31:48   by surprise everyone know you know it's

00:31:50   long been rumored but you know it was

00:31:52   only like the friday before when the

00:31:54   Wall Street Journal said yeah this is

00:31:56   going to happen and everybody was sort

00:31:57   of like what was that

00:31:58   how's that going to work and onstage

00:32:01   talking about it Steve Jobs explanation

00:32:05   was more or less this argument about

00:32:07   power her energy and performance / not

00:32:14   just your performance but performance /

00:32:17   energy consumption and that this was the

00:32:21   future of computing and that these intel

00:32:24   cpus they were switching to gave them so

00:32:27   much more computing power per watt of

00:32:30   energy burn which if you think about his

00:32:34   and he was very passionate about it and

00:32:35   it was almost like come on Steve but if

00:32:40   you think about it isn't that exactly

00:32:42   like like shouldn't the guy who listen

00:32:45   the most intently to that shouldn't have

00:32:47   been Paul Otellini right because isn't

00:32:50   that exactly where Intel is now found

00:32:52   itself behind this every yeah and that's

00:32:55   this whole revolution with these arm

00:32:56   processors for phones and tablets is is

00:33:01   not sure performance right i mean you

00:33:03   know that the high-end ipad 4 is in

00:33:07   terms of like benchmarking way slower

00:33:10   and the cheapest macbook right it's not

00:33:14   it's not that fast as it just as sure

00:33:16   processor it's about battery life and

00:33:20   this this new division of performance

00:33:23   versus energy consumption and heat right

00:33:27   and whens cook look at Steve Jobs really

00:33:31   laid it all out on the line back in i

00:33:32   don't when was that 2006 2005 mean

00:33:35   really like such a belt it out

00:33:37   yeah what does could call he didn't in

00:33:42   that little video so NBC also had a

00:33:45   short cut of what is gonna be on tonight

00:33:49   right as i think it's on tonight

00:33:51   yes it's on tonight on the rock-hard

00:33:53   show right on Brian way my rock hard

00:33:59   isn't that the name of the show and now

00:34:04   it's not as its I don't know I really

00:34:07   don't know

00:34:08   ok let me look it up it's brian williams

00:34:12   rockecenter yeah yeah yeah alright Brian

00:34:15   Williams rock hard as a different show

00:34:17   that's a different show it's on later

00:34:19   because ego that was he called the

00:34:24   processors because they had a funny word

00:34:28   for it doesn't say process races like

00:34:30   brain or something

00:34:31   engine engine i think the eyes are you

00:34:34   talking about i think thats is what I

00:34:36   think you talked about the operating

00:34:37   system not the processor because it

00:34:39   because he said it's made in the USA

00:34:41   that must mean that I think he means

00:34:42   this but that the engine is the it i

00:34:48   don't know where are the processors

00:34:50   maybe they bought that they're designed

00:34:52   they designed them

00:34:53   yes they bought that company and I guess

00:34:58   I thought they also made them it's all

00:35:00   very secretive but an hour samsung is

00:35:02   still making them for you know that's a

00:35:04   whole awkward relationship with with

00:35:07   Samsung that they've got this almost

00:35:10   Shakespearean sort of duality now and

00:35:13   then I guess I know Samsung has I got

00:35:15   chipped fab in Texas where they make

00:35:17   some but I don't know if they make them

00:35:18   all

00:35:19   it does seem it seems kind of crazy like

00:35:21   the way everything hopscotch is all

00:35:23   around where they make the

00:35:24   last in Kentucky and then send it over

00:35:27   to China and they make the CPUs in Texas

00:35:29   and then send them over to China and

00:35:31   then they put them all together and then

00:35:32   send the phones back to the US I thought

00:35:36   he was talking about the operating

00:35:38   system maybe you're right cabbie was

00:35:39   talking I just talked about the

00:35:40   processors but I oh I don't know it and

00:35:43   I could be there

00:35:43   I don't know yeah but that's the other

00:35:46   thing that he announced is that they're

00:35:50   gonna start trying to do a little more

00:35:52   manufacturing in the United States and

00:35:54   today there was also announcement that

00:35:56   Foxconn is going to so I don't know if

00:35:58   those two things are the same

00:35:59   oh really seems like yeah that Foxconn

00:36:01   is going to open or do more

00:36:03   manufacturing in the u.s. mean I don't

00:36:07   know if they doing here you're currently

00:36:08   but so we're gonna get some of that

00:36:11   great foxconn job so if you're looking

00:36:16   for a sweatshop job it's not really a

00:36:21   sweatshop but yeah yeah he doesn't wait

00:36:28   another 10 13 another one to file under

00:36:31   be careful what you wish for

00:36:33   yeah right way yeah we will bring those

00:36:35   jobs back to America this sucks I and

00:36:42   that's the other thing that I I feel

00:36:44   fairly confident that someone will

00:36:47   predict that Apple's decline it you know

00:36:51   another sign of apples impending decline

00:36:53   is that they're bringing jobs United

00:36:55   States anything they do differently is a

00:36:57   sign that they're declining right right

00:36:59   i could see i mean i can see sort of

00:37:02   your argument there because you'd be

00:37:03   saying well that means they're gonna

00:37:05   have to be more expensive and you know

00:37:07   whatever see there's there is a there is

00:37:11   room for a reasonable argument but the

00:37:12   same time it I think I and this is the

00:37:16   sort of the whole problem with these

00:37:17   arguments is that because of apples

00:37:20   track record and because it still has

00:37:22   basically the same core of good

00:37:25   executives that it had and the and the

00:37:29   right guy leading the company i trust

00:37:33   their ability to execute and

00:37:37   to accept all these up counter-arguments

00:37:41   that's to say that the company is surely

00:37:43   in decline you have to sort of throw

00:37:45   that out you have to say no only you

00:37:48   know Steve Jobs was the only one that

00:37:50   was worth of damage the company and

00:37:51   everybody else is a mouth breathing

00:37:54   right number so I don't get I mean

00:37:58   obviously right actually I don't get

00:38:00   that and I think the I mean I was your

00:38:05   private was your overall impression of

00:38:07   the of the interview I thought it was

00:38:08   pretty

00:38:09   that was pretty good for how these

00:38:11   things are are done

00:38:13   yes to certain degree these are all puff

00:38:15   pieces he wasn't really throwing

00:38:17   anything terribly difficult but it would

00:38:20   but it also wasn't complete softballs

00:38:22   right like ideally we you know you'd

00:38:26   love to get some yeah they know that you

00:38:29   didn't bother asking anything about

00:38:31   future products right you have ideally

00:38:33   to satisfy our curiosity would like to

00:38:36   know

00:38:37   stuffed to a level of detail that is

00:38:39   outside apples interest in sharing right

00:38:42   and Tim Cook has not added in bold and

00:38:45   so he's not going to do that but I feel

00:38:47   like in terms of the line of what he

00:38:49   might be willing to talk about

00:38:51   I felt like like that the interview is

00:38:54   very well done and that it went it went

00:38:56   up to that line and kind of filled today

00:38:57   yeah right like you're not going to the

00:39:00   apples not going to let somebody follow

00:39:02   a product development team around for

00:39:05   six months and document exactly how they

00:39:07   actually do it i thought one of the most

00:39:11   interesting tidbits IM it makes sense if

00:39:13   you think about it but I hadn't thought

00:39:14   about it this way was very said that

00:39:15   that eighty percent of the company's

00:39:18   revenue from this corner is coming from

00:39:20   products that were released within the

00:39:22   last 60 days

00:39:23   yeah which is its kind of amazing

00:39:27   we don't really yeah you really think

00:39:28   about that because they did turn the

00:39:29   whole ipad line over right and and what

00:39:33   do you have the ipod too right oh that's

00:39:36   just true that's true but i suspect i

00:39:40   very much

00:39:41   well I don't know that's interesting i

00:39:42   wonder if you I mean I'm so i'm assuming

00:39:44   that that statistic is yes he's not he's

00:39:47   not over emphasize area

00:39:50   now I that seemed bigger than it really

00:39:53   is

00:39:54   right now but i don't think that the

00:39:55   ipad i think it's a hit i think it's

00:39:57   successful i and I've said before and

00:39:58   that's the only reason why they would

00:40:00   keep it around is that people are buying

00:40:01   it right whether it's they're still

00:40:03   buying it with the many available you

00:40:05   know was that the price that was making

00:40:06   them buy it or was it the fact that they

00:40:08   really wanted the tenants eyes and they

00:40:10   just want the cheapest one that it will

00:40:12   know the answer to that if that I you

00:40:13   know if it sticks around but you know I

00:40:16   i think i think tim cook that sort of

00:40:18   thing that I don't think he would miss

00:40:20   speak about like he might I yeah I don't

00:40:21   think so either you might get

00:40:23   loosey-goosey about what's the quote

00:40:24   engine of the phone like that might be

00:40:27   something that he's just going to wave

00:40:28   his hands about when it's comes to

00:40:30   things like we're eighty percent of the

00:40:32   revenues coming yeah yeah i think you

00:40:34   know i think the guys like a living

00:40:37   breathing spreadsheet

00:40:38   yeah i guess probably scary how much of

00:40:41   that stuff he's got his edited given

00:40:43   moment

00:40:44   yeah that was the thing i look kinda

00:40:46   look for is he seemed it i'm trying to

00:40:49   think of all the examples he used a word

00:40:52   a buzzword that he apologized for using

00:40:55   I detected a best-of-breed best-of-breed

00:40:59   yeah i used it yet so yeah use that but

00:41:02   at least copy of that with st. by saying

00:41:05   that he hated it right eye and he there

00:41:07   was one other sort of buzz worthy thing

00:41:09   that he used that I would you know I

00:41:11   mean it's stupid to do this but I didn't

00:41:13   I thought what will if that was

00:41:15   something that jobs would have said but

00:41:18   then the other i was pleased that he

00:41:20   hears the word crappy been talking about

00:41:25   we're talking about keyboards on

00:41:26   netbooks and I thought that was it seems

00:41:31   you know I you know I'd look for a

00:41:35   little clues about his is characterized

00:41:37   guess yeah just to see what kind of guy

00:41:39   is yeah i guess that is the interesting

00:41:41   thing one of the interesting things

00:41:42   about him is that he is a bit of a

00:41:44   cipher and I felt like the interview you

00:41:46   know the what's his name Josh I want to

00:41:48   give him credit because he didn't yeah

00:41:49   yeah i i'm not a triangle is kind of got

00:41:55   like a harder and we'll just call josh

00:41:57   Josh to wrangle Randall gossamer Angeles

00:42:03   yes for you're the perfect person to try

00:42:06   and figure out how to pronounce this

00:42:07   name yeah we go we should go like grade

00:42:12   school style just call Josh t just ed

00:42:15   yeah

00:42:16   mr. Josh yeah yeah brother John's in

00:42:18   your in your class growing up

00:42:20   oh yeah sure yeah we had three jon was

00:42:23   touch-and-go China why is John not a

00:42:25   popular name anymore it's a great name

00:42:27   it's the best name I I was crazy to put

00:42:30   a grill oh man I think Johnson invest

00:42:33   John Adams got some great people but

00:42:38   John Kennedy and it's a great name

00:42:41   anyway but we had to we had three we had

00:42:43   janji I was yours truly jaunty John are

00:42:47   huh

00:42:48   I wondered always wondered what we

00:42:51   didn't do that had if you had two at the

00:42:53   same initial ya i dont no matter how we

00:42:55   would have a despite their to fight it

00:42:57   out

00:42:57   yeah they put it up put them in a pit

00:42:59   with a couple of sticks pointed sticks

00:43:01   and let him go now I diet so no I always

00:43:05   just I mean I mean not at that age and

00:43:08   grade school age but I just eventually

00:43:10   became bolts right so yeah same here

00:43:12   i've always been molds

00:43:13   yeah I've always been groomed yeah I let

00:43:18   me do take a break and read a sponsor

00:43:20   yet with one big sponsor this week it's

00:43:22   talks coffee

00:43:23   oh yeah ever heard of the tongues I've

00:43:25   heard of the talks it's it's the best

00:43:29   ah it's a great gift now I got it I got

00:43:32   some some correction from last week it

00:43:35   was i was talking in Maryland and I said

00:43:37   you know you can you know maybe this

00:43:39   idea of giving somebody a subscription

00:43:41   to a thing that comes in the mail maybe

00:43:42   it's you know got a bad rap as a holiday

00:43:44   gift because of the the Christmas

00:43:46   vacation I think I said that he got the

00:43:49   cake of the Month Club my it's a beloved

00:43:52   holiday classic my wife and my son were

00:43:54   both appalled that I didn't remember

00:43:56   what Clark got from the park Griswold

00:43:59   got from his boss was it a subscription

00:44:01   to the jelly of the month club and how I

00:44:04   and that his cousin Eddie said it's the

00:44:07   gift that keeps on giving

00:44:09   I will talks coffee as a gift idea for

00:44:12   the holidays it's the real deal though

00:44:13   because it's not some shitty jelly

00:44:16   it's it is the best coffee in the world

00:44:21   like you're giving somebody something

00:44:22   that they're actually going to use is

00:44:24   presuming that you've got someone in

00:44:25   your friend or family who drinks coffee

00:44:28   and if they don't drink coffee

00:44:29   I mean what's wrong with because it just

00:44:31   came out the other thing it just came

00:44:33   out last week that the more coffee you

00:44:35   drink the better you are

00:44:36   I don't know that's what I took four ya

00:44:37   know that it's not the demonstrable be

00:44:41   true right there was some kind of study

00:44:43   came out that drinking copious amounts

00:44:45   of coffee is on the whole good for your

00:44:47   health

00:44:48   yeah and it's integral zoomed up being a

00:44:50   good you're writing a good weblog right

00:44:52   now exactly i mean it's it's what you

00:44:55   know what and somebody else pointed out

00:44:56   to me that on twitter that they said

00:45:01   good piece on the daily but you missed

00:45:03   what was surely the core of their

00:45:05   failure that they obviously did not have

00:45:07   I over-caffeinated fizzy water

00:45:10   over-caffeinated over fizzy water and it

00:45:15   was carbonated carbonated over

00:45:17   carbonated fizzy water fussy coffee and

00:45:20   clicking keyboard they were must have

00:45:22   been missing at least one and A three

00:45:23   possibly all three probably all 3i

00:45:25   probably all three given out what it was

00:45:28   but those are my keys to success on the

00:45:31   internet / kappa / carbonated water

00:45:33   policy delicious coffee and clicking

00:45:36   keyboards

00:45:37   yeah i would put the coffee first

00:45:39   frankly I mean I'd if I can we have one

00:45:41   of the 3i would we put the coffee first

00:45:44   I could get my work done with the shitty

00:45:46   keyboard and with flat water or juice or

00:45:48   something like that

00:45:49   not really sure how I didn't get

00:45:51   anything going without the coffee honks

00:45:53   is the best they get it from all over

00:45:54   the world it is it it's great coffee and

00:45:57   if you're lazy like me you don't have to

00:45:59   leave the house I mean it fits right in

00:46:01   with your piece in the magazine you

00:46:03   don't have to go anywhere right you've

00:46:04   got a poly you can get deliveries come

00:46:06   into your office right you've got like a

00:46:08   policy there with the wife

00:46:09   so the tongues qualified under the door

00:46:11   comes right in I up through december 16

00:46:15   you can order in time for the holidays

00:46:18   go to talks dot-org t 0 NX dot 0 RG sign

00:46:23   up you get a free sample for yourself

00:46:24   it's a great gift idea if you don't have

00:46:27   the talk to everybody should have the

00:46:29   tongs hide

00:46:30   don't understand why some people haven't

00:46:32   signed up for yet really thanks to them

00:46:34   for their continuing support of the talk

00:46:35   show this is my thing for Christmas that

00:46:38   for myself that I'm I'm trying to trying

00:46:41   to arrange is to up my coffee game

00:46:44   yeah and i think this is going to be an

00:46:46   integral integral part of this because I

00:46:48   I got on my on my Amazon wish list is

00:46:51   the air be aeropress yeah and I gotta

00:46:54   get I gotta organize and I'm switching

00:46:57   to talks to

00:46:58   I when I was out for the the show that I

00:47:02   did in Los Angeles with the sandwich and

00:47:06   ryan Johnson and looper director couple

00:47:08   shows ago because we did that we did

00:47:10   that show right there in the same with

00:47:11   studios there in Los Angeles one of the

00:47:15   guys who works with Adam there it's at

00:47:17   sandwich video JP volunteer to to make

00:47:21   me a cup of coffee and I I was not

00:47:22   familiar with the aeropress and of

00:47:24   course there was talk because I believe

00:47:26   they're not sure if I can say this but I

00:47:28   think they're working on a sandwich

00:47:30   video for talks haha so they're you know

00:47:33   they're it's all part of the talks

00:47:35   family and he made me the aeropress cup

00:47:37   of coffee and it really was one of those

00:47:39   like pulp fiction moments of like a damn

00:47:41   that's good yeah I like wow like it

00:47:48   really kind of like set me off like I

00:47:50   lost my train of thought it's like this

00:47:51   is making really really delicious

00:47:54   the other thing too that's fun about

00:47:56   getting into copy you can really kind of

00:47:58   nerd out on it and it's it's not

00:48:00   expensive you know like you're not you

00:48:02   know they like I'm always afraid I don't

00:48:04   I never drink wine because I'm afraid

00:48:05   that if i get into it all of a sudden

00:48:07   I'm buying $85 bottles and I I I don't

00:48:10   want to get into something like that you

00:48:12   know i mean like all you need is boiled

00:48:14   water and coffee beans

00:48:17   yeah right you can get like a nice

00:48:19   little fussy cattle and it's you know

00:48:23   what's what's a teakettle cost doesn't

00:48:24   cost a lot of money and are not like get

00:48:26   into some kind of thing where you're

00:48:27   can't pay your amex every month I want

00:48:33   to get one of you should have you should

00:48:34   not have to do that I want to get a

00:48:36   teakettle that has the long skinny spout

00:48:39   have you seen that like this seems like

00:48:41   all the real that that's the way you

00:48:42   make fun of

00:48:43   yeah it's got like a real skinny spot

00:48:45   mine has a big fat spout that's like you

00:48:48   know it's just like it unfussy tea

00:48:50   kettle or no water kettle whatever you

00:48:52   want to call it and I feel like I got it

00:48:54   I got it up my teakettle game under tim

00:48:59   cook drinks coffee that's it i would bet

00:49:04   he seems like i don't know i don't know

00:49:07   i would hope so

00:49:08   yeah I don't know I say eats a lot of

00:49:11   energy bars is that used to be the other

00:49:15   thing that was in all the profiles of

00:49:16   that easy gets in early leave late I he

00:49:21   eats a lot of it eats a lot of energy

00:49:26   bars Steve Jobs never would have eaten

00:49:29   energy bars you know one of the other

00:49:32   things company in decline

00:49:37   actually I one of the little things i

00:49:41   noticed in the article was a day and

00:49:44   this time unless i skipped it they never

00:49:46   actually got back to talking about John

00:49:48   Browett noise no I don't think you did

00:49:51   it like he really just focused on for

00:49:54   stolen glossed over brown right it's

00:49:57   this whole thing here with forestall and

00:50:00   a big explanation which is really I

00:50:02   think about as open as they were going

00:50:03   to get about you know what was going on

00:50:06   there i really do mean you know i mean

00:50:08   obviously not going to get into

00:50:09   specifics I any you know kind of went

00:50:13   out of his way

00:50:14   euphemistically not to mention forestall

00:50:16   my name as i get gentleman's agreement

00:50:18   all of this i who had the podcast where

00:50:23   they were talking about the severance

00:50:27   agreements think it was siracusa going

00:50:29   on on hypercritical when I wanted first

00:50:32   broke and he was talking about these

00:50:35   there's like a term for these type of

00:50:37   agreements it's like a gardeners clause

00:50:43   or something like that a guard gardening

00:50:45   severance or something like that and

00:50:46   they really it's a tradition

00:50:49   I you know what he said I had forgets

00:50:55   for something like that but the gist of

00:50:56   it is it's like an old term from

00:50:57   england and the gist of it is that it's

00:50:58   in the contract that the company if we

00:51:01   decide to get rid of you we can pay you

00:51:03   this gardeners thing where you just

00:51:06   going to stay at home and garden garden

00:51:08   but you're going to be on the payroll at

00:51:10   your regular salary for a year but we

00:51:11   don't want you to even come into the

00:51:13   office come it but we're gonna but we

00:51:16   don't want you to go to a competitor

00:51:18   you know I tried to get one of those

00:51:20   four years in its own little bit finally

00:51:23   just got to quit

00:51:25   it's one of those things where when you

00:51:26   get to a certain level of achievement

00:51:27   everything it's like it must be nice you

00:51:30   know what I mean yeah you know what they

00:51:32   call golden parachutes solution right I

00:51:35   normal people when you get fired you

00:51:37   know you know yeah you just get fired

00:51:39   you get weeks right you get like two

00:51:42   weeks of pay you get maybe if you're

00:51:44   lucky you get four weeks of pay

00:51:45   no I you know like when you reach the

00:51:49   executive level and you get fired you

00:51:52   get tens of millions of dollars that's

00:51:54   right you know and i don't mean the lab

00:51:58   I really don't mean like that sometimes

00:51:59   I worry about things like I just think

00:52:01   like it like I don't think Scott

00:52:03   Forstall listens to the talk show but

00:52:05   the odds that he listens to the talk

00:52:07   show it's definitely somewhere above

00:52:08   zero right i mean is maybe it's one

00:52:11   percent chance right and so I I always

00:52:14   sometimes I think like I don't want to

00:52:15   sit here and God you know maybe he's at

00:52:17   home you know what gardening right bored

00:52:19   out of his mind

00:52:20   Jesus Christ and listen to podcasts and

00:52:22   then here we are laughing about the fact

00:52:24   that he got fired I mean I don't I

00:52:25   really don't mean to make light of it

00:52:27   now i really do think you know in a way

00:52:29   I think that there's a good sad story

00:52:31   there where I think that this is a guy

00:52:33   who's been taken away from his life's

00:52:35   work and I I mean this without any I I'm

00:52:39   not making fun of trying to be serious

00:52:41   here

00:52:41   uh but you know it's not like the guys

00:52:45   just get a better

00:52:48   yeah he doesn't have to his family

00:52:50   doesn't have to switch to the store

00:52:51   brand cornflakes was it seems like I

00:52:56   mean you know a guy like that he's gonna

00:52:57   he's gonna do something else

00:52:59   I mean he's gonna he's gonna land on the

00:53:01   speed and it's not gonna be alright

00:53:03   sitting around in his bathroom right

00:53:06   watching Washington watching his shows

00:53:10   for a couple years just watch it'll keep

00:53:12   cycling into a spiral of cruising

00:53:15   congressional Bill's got there was one

00:53:19   about you and like we would like he's

00:53:24   already talking and you know he's

00:53:26   already out there talking to people like

00:53:27   figuring out what the next things right

00:53:29   there's a reason that he got to be the

00:53:31   senior vice yeah exactly right you gotta

00:53:33   get ready clawed his way up there but

00:53:35   probably murdered a bunch of people to

00:53:37   get there he's gonna going to do it

00:53:40   again

00:53:40   god I really don't want to think about

00:53:42   what how i would do something really but

00:53:45   he stepped in and took took your blog

00:53:48   away right

00:53:49   yeah sorry the word there's nothing

00:53:52   you're done every once in a while I like

00:53:54   what I see words and I the word I'm

00:53:57   seeing right now it's is in big big

00:54:01   future of bold all caps says

00:54:03   intervention haha but yea yea trip to

00:54:13   the health clinic didn't do you have a

00:54:16   do you have a martini glasses in your

00:54:18   bathroom like we do

00:54:19   look at that hey last night's martini

00:54:22   glasses that ya know

00:54:25   okay good you still got a ways to go

00:54:29   then

00:54:30   ya gotta catch up i want to be there but

00:54:35   i keep up with the multiples

00:54:36   yeah I won't say that I don't

00:54:38   occasionally lose one where various just

00:54:42   don't take it into the bathroom with the

00:54:47   other thing i noticed in the same

00:54:48   segment so he did they never actually

00:54:49   get back to talking about John brow it

00:54:51   just seems like that was just like only

00:54:54   ever I me and he barely talked about all

00:54:56   I honestly though in a sense though if I

00:54:58   had it if there's one complaint of my

00:55:00   complaints one of the things that

00:55:01   occurred to me and i don't think i don't

00:55:03   know I I feel like I'm only good at

00:55:06   finding these things afterwards i'm not

00:55:07   saying I would have done a better job if

00:55:09   Apple and said look you want an hour

00:55:10   with tim cook and I've of course would

00:55:12   have said yes but I don't know that I

00:55:14   would have done a better job than this

00:55:15   guy i really don't

00:55:16   yeah because I just start drawing blanks

00:55:19   I'm not good

00:55:20   I i think very very slowly and I think

00:55:22   to be an interview

00:55:23   you got to think fast but it occurs to

00:55:24   me though that I would have liked him to

00:55:26   go back to browse because the browser

00:55:28   thing to me is all on cook right like

00:55:32   the the forestall situation is obviously

00:55:34   been simmering literally for a decade

00:55:36   right i mean force that's been there for

00:55:38   ya

00:55:39   I and you're as proud as something where

00:55:41   he at you know he brought him in and add

00:55:44   a turnaround shown the door right the

00:55:46   whole thing with ron johnson leaving

00:55:48   happened after Jobs died I you know and

00:55:52   there's and I who knows whether there's

00:55:53   any truth to return I think it's

00:55:54   ridiculous but there's some speculation

00:55:56   that that that Johnson wanted the CEO

00:55:59   job at apple and that if you know when

00:56:01   it was curtains gonna go to cook with

00:56:02   any was out because there was no that

00:56:04   doesn't seem that he doesn't seem like a

00:56:07   good fit he doesn't it doesn't seem like

00:56:08   it would have to be in the cards that

00:56:09   the readouts guy would ever rise you

00:56:12   know that if you know you can in theory

00:56:14   you could see it like Johnny I've the

00:56:16   design guy if he wanted to be CEO that

00:56:19   you

00:56:19   you know it wouldn't play if they said

00:56:21   hey you know hooks retiring jony ive's

00:56:24   the new CEO i think that would play I I

00:56:27   think Schiller would play you know sure

00:56:29   and i and I've said this before it many

00:56:33   times that he's you know what people

00:56:35   think of his marketing is not what Apple

00:56:37   thinks of his marketing he's not just in

00:56:39   charge of ads you know and and stuff

00:56:41   like that if you know what sugar does it

00:56:44   would totally play that he could be the

00:56:45   CEO like the the retail guy no matter

00:56:47   how good their retail is it just doesn't

00:56:50   play but anyway he did leave after Jobs

00:56:53   was gone and so the whole thing of how

00:56:55   do we replace ron johnson and keep the

00:56:57   retail thing going was all on cook and

00:57:00   it was you know as soon as it was

00:57:01   announced everybody who is familiar with

00:57:03   that those shitty stores that Brown ran

00:57:05   in England I forget what they were

00:57:09   called but everybody in the UK the

00:57:11   announces and everybody in the UK who

00:57:12   knew was like what the hell is Apple

00:57:14   doing this customers suck

00:57:16   yeah they're like the whole reason the

00:57:18   apple stores are successful there like

00:57:19   the anti apple stores and I was like

00:57:22   well I don't know maybe the guy you know

00:57:24   right that's what I thought too i was so

00:57:25   I wanted to give you the benefit of the

00:57:27   doubt

00:57:28   right i thought well maybe in turns out

00:57:29   I was wrong no it turns out that the

00:57:32   snap judgment from the people in England

00:57:33   was exactly right

00:57:35   I the guys like a hack which seems weird

00:57:38   yeah just seems weird I kinda feel like

00:57:39   if you got Tim cooked in front of you

00:57:41   and you can ask him about it i feel like

00:57:43   you know you something along the lines

00:57:46   of look disguise stores in England he

00:57:48   came from these stories that are unlike

00:57:49   apples

00:57:50   yeah what did you see that you thought

00:57:53   might be right exactly right i think

00:57:56   that would explain that initial decision

00:57:57   right I feel like he could have held his

00:57:59   feet to the fire their eyebrows a little

00:58:01   bit where ya forestall thing you know

00:58:03   they did cover it well but he didn't get

00:58:04   back to proud I guess they think that

00:58:06   that's the four-star things more

00:58:08   interesting but and I can see that but

00:58:11   it also in a way it's more interesting

00:58:15   to figure out what happened with brown

00:58:16   like how that does that went wrong right

00:58:19   and I kind of feel like you know if

00:58:21   there is like a you know like you said

00:58:22   earlier like looking for chinks in the

00:58:25   armor and yeah and yeah I could that

00:58:27   would seem like a bigger one than I then

00:58:30   the forestall situation right and I

00:58:32   wonder about the you know it's obviously

00:58:35   mostly speculative we don't know the

00:58:37   internal but the speculation is that we

00:58:39   do know that cook is a big numbers guy

00:58:41   and he's an operations guy and you know

00:58:44   we know that that some of the things

00:58:46   that this proud guy did when he was in

00:58:48   charge of apple retail seemed sort of

00:58:51   operationally you know like cognac hours

00:58:54   doing those tricks where you get you

00:58:55   know make sure nobody gets more than 37

00:58:59   and a half hours he taunted him his

00:59:00   full-time employees and stuff like that

00:59:03   anyway stuff that made the employees

00:59:05   that wasn't good for the employees and

00:59:07   sort of put like a if gone in that

00:59:10   direction would make the stores the

00:59:11   worst experience but and a bean counter

00:59:15   level seemingly makes sense you know

00:59:17   makes sense if you're looking at the

00:59:19   store through an Excel spreadsheet

00:59:20   instead of actually being in the store I

00:59:24   and that's sort of like the fear with

00:59:27   cook right that he's the numbers guy

00:59:29   that he's gonna start running the

00:59:31   company in a numbers focused way

00:59:34   yeah right as opposed to Steve Jobs who

00:59:38   you know he like came in and he was mad

00:59:41   at the first stores opened up and he was

00:59:42   pissed about like the scuff marks on the

00:59:44   floors and

00:59:47   so he like I don't know if you went to

00:59:49   himself what the story is but they like

00:59:51   went to Venice and got like some kind of

00:59:53   like you can only get it in the Venice

00:59:55   granite stone that they polished certain

00:59:59   way

00:59:59   way

01:00:00   to make this that's how I that's what

01:00:01   we're going to use for the floors from

01:00:03   now on

01:00:03   yeah right doesn't make any financial

01:00:05   sense at all

01:00:07   goddammit get some hot wax right but

01:00:11   just goddamn band the floors are nice

01:00:13   some italian yacht wax shiny floors up

01:00:18   I i like the story about him talking to

01:00:23   steve about being about taking over

01:00:25   yeah and trying trying to fight right

01:00:28   now but were eventually he kept asking

01:00:33   him like you know is which one because

01:00:35   he was going to jobs is gonna becomes

01:00:37   chairman of the board and cook would be

01:00:41   CEO right is that the way that is

01:00:43   correct

01:00:44   yeah and then he kept asking manager

01:00:45   sure this is what you were doing it and

01:00:48   finally he said I'm sure stop asking

01:00:51   he all right now this is really you know

01:00:55   is one of the best I I didn't want a

01:00:57   block quote because it was a guy I

01:01:01   didn't want to spoil it in the article

01:01:03   its its way at the bottom so via the

01:01:04   internet any of you out there started

01:01:06   reading this long interview and cut got

01:01:07   halfway to really stick with it I mean

01:01:09   that's good

01:01:10   here's the here's the party says this is

01:01:16   cook talking one weekend he called me

01:01:18   and he said I'd like to talk to you this

01:01:20   was in the summer of 11 I said fine when

01:01:23   and typical Steve fashion is it now

01:01:26   great and write a typical so I go over

01:01:29   to his house and i still remember how he

01:01:31   started this discussion said there has

01:01:32   never been a professional transition at

01:01:35   the CEO level and apple he said our

01:01:37   company has done a lot of great things

01:01:38   but it's never done this one last guy is

01:01:40   always fired and then someone new comes

01:01:42   in he goes I want there to be a

01:01:44   professional CEO transition and I've

01:01:47   decided and i'm recommending to the

01:01:48   board that you be the CEO i'm going to

01:01:51   be the chairman and it goes on it's

01:01:54   really good that's you know

01:02:00   I hope they help their able to keep up

01:02:04   crazy stories like this

01:02:08   yeah you know even the hook jobs going

01:02:11   but she's just like and I don't know how

01:02:14   you do that because it's like it's

01:02:16   little stuff like that that makes it i

01:02:19   mean her love stories like that and

01:02:21   having worked at a company

01:02:22   those are those are always the best I

01:02:25   mean you just if you have a story like

01:02:27   that it part in a really it sounds

01:02:29   stupid but it actually helps build the

01:02:31   culture of the company

01:02:32   yeah if you can tell crazy stories are

01:02:36   just great nutty things about the

01:02:38   executives and stuff that's fun not you

01:02:40   know people get yeah well I mean it's

01:02:43   also kind of fun to hear about people

01:02:44   getting fired in the elevator but

01:02:45   there's the old one about cook the one

01:02:48   and you know you don't hear these

01:02:50   stories angle but there's the one about

01:02:51   their something was going wrong in China

01:02:54   and need one he said you pointed to the

01:02:57   one guy heating and said okay you're the

01:02:59   one that fix it and then like five

01:03:01   minutes later looked up and said what

01:03:02   are you still doing here and the guy got

01:03:05   really good one

01:03:06   any guy got haywire like dinner still on

01:03:09   a plane right he did he touch with that

01:03:11   they said the guy did though he didn't

01:03:13   even go home he liked guys car cook told

01:03:15   his wife I gotta go to China and he just

01:03:17   drove drunk in san jose airport and

01:03:19   booked a ticket to China will buy some

01:03:22   clothes there right yeah it probably

01:03:24   cheap

01:03:25   yeah guys like spend two weeks in China

01:03:30   where like ill-fitting clothing that

01:03:34   jumpsuit

01:03:36   ok i'll get one at the factory yeah

01:03:39   there anything else going on this week

01:03:43   terrific five came out yeah I'm gotten

01:03:48   yet but well as I do i do enjoy the

01:03:51   terrific is that you're using your

01:03:53   twitter client of choice i go back and

01:03:55   forth and i used to use but I do use

01:03:59   both these Tweetbot and twitterrific

01:04:00   yeah it's really and on and on iOS is

01:04:04   both yeah it's really good and I kind of

01:04:06   feel like they're they're doing a

01:04:08   skating to where the puck is going to be

01:04:12   thing with the aesthetics

01:04:14   of the app is that it's it i know that

01:04:19   the whole skeuomorphism thing it's such

01:04:21   an overused word and it means more than

01:04:24   just the textures right that like and

01:04:28   and that it was an interview with Lauren

01:04:30   Richter of letterpress fame with erica

01:04:33   OGG by Erica eigen you go on this week

01:04:36   he mentioned it that skeuomorphism is

01:04:39   more than just the visual textures and

01:04:41   putting sticks leather it's the things

01:04:43   like when you've turned a page and it

01:04:45   looks like a piece of paper as you turn

01:04:47   the page whether it's good or bad it's

01:04:48   you know it's more than just what it

01:04:50   looks like but I feel like twitterrific

01:04:53   is this new version 5 is going in this

01:04:56   opposite direction of just talking about

01:05:00   the textures and stuff like that sort of

01:05:02   taking them all out and and going in

01:05:05   this minimalist flat

01:05:06   yeah the least chrome you can get away

01:05:10   with and you know it Windows 8 is

01:05:16   obviously in that direction but this

01:05:17   doesn't look anything you know there's

01:05:19   no one way to do it if you know what I

01:05:20   mean yeah it's a similar concept but

01:05:23   it's but it's um it's nicer in the same

01:05:26   way that like is well here's a good

01:05:31   example like the difference between

01:05:32   apples aqua interface and the windows

01:05:36   vista interface which were both largely

01:05:39   based on this sort of plasticky

01:05:41   translucency glass shadows transparency

01:05:46   sort of aesthetic you can go very

01:05:48   different ways with it what I one can

01:05:50   look pretty good in one can

01:05:52   yeah and look like you know you got it

01:05:53   came yeah I there's different ways to do

01:05:56   minimalism 2i and I kind of feel like I

01:06:00   do kind of feel like that's what Jony

01:06:02   ive has been talking about like when is

01:06:03   little hints about the aesthetics of the

01:06:07   OS you know and edited the little sort

01:06:09   of knows quickly made when the guy from

01:06:11   The Guardian asked him about it was the

01:06:13   guardian whoever it was asked him about

01:06:14   this stitched leather you know that is

01:06:17   not really being true to the hardware

01:06:18   twitterrific 5i think is a really

01:06:21   interesting example of that I kind of

01:06:23   feel like like like I contractor has

01:06:25   jumped ahead

01:06:27   of this state-of-the-art for athletics

01:06:29   letterpress is another example of that

01:06:34   you play the last y'all

01:06:35   yeah you have we played yet we have not

01:06:38   played now we probably should

01:06:39   oh man that should be like my new rule

01:06:41   for getting people on the show we gotta

01:06:42   plan to play the letterpress yeah but

01:06:47   yea letterpress is another example of

01:06:49   that and that's you know that's where it

01:06:50   came up in Laurens interview with Erica

01:06:53   you know that there's obviously this

01:06:55   minimalist death aesthetic on but it

01:07:01   doesn't mean undesigned right there's

01:07:03   it's harder to explain because when

01:07:05   something is like a visual texture that

01:07:08   design jumps right out at you where is

01:07:10   it's more about the subtleties

01:07:12   yeah like but when you move tiles around

01:07:15   and letterpress it's not like there's

01:07:16   nothing going on there's something very

01:07:18   fancy going on where it's sort of

01:07:20   jiggles in and it says jaunty little and

01:07:23   even when you fire it up and it does

01:07:24   that little that little rotating yeah

01:07:26   thingamabob whatever it is

01:07:28   yeah you know what that is its that's

01:07:31   the eight bits logo

01:07:32   oh that's right it's eight minutes right

01:07:36   and the way it rotates is it goes seven

01:07:39   times clockwise and then that the eighth

01:07:42   goes counterclockwise and I will go

01:07:44   seven clockwise for the inside sounds

01:07:49   like the thing from Indiana Jones what

01:07:52   will take one take one back 500 got one

01:07:56   back Ilana yeah exactly

01:07:59   they're digging in the wrong place i

01:08:01   gotta play in leather place but anyway

01:08:03   letterpress is another example and again

01:08:04   letterpress and twitterrific five are

01:08:07   both super super distinctive don't look

01:08:10   anything at all like each other really

01:08:11   except that there's a sort of Shh

01:08:15   I don't know there's something to its

01:08:17   kinda hard to talk about but I feel like

01:08:18   there's like a shared sense of this is

01:08:20   where you sensibility yeah yeah and I

01:08:24   really think that they did good work

01:08:26   ethic I feel like congratulations to all

01:08:30   our friends that

01:08:31   yeah an apple seems to get that kind of

01:08:34   me when there was nothing in the

01:08:35   interview was that he was talking about

01:08:37   sort of a whole held up an iphone i

01:08:39   guess this was in the

01:08:40   the maybe the scene with the in the NBC

01:08:43   interview

01:08:44   yeah and he held up the iphone and

01:08:45   talked about with Rocco see how the face

01:08:51   of it is the operating system I forget

01:08:54   exactly what he said but just that it

01:08:57   you know and we've talked about this

01:08:59   before but now it's just it's like a

01:09:00   glass and you just have a glass front

01:09:02   and then you're interacting with the

01:09:04   operating system right there and that's

01:09:05   the that's their design ethic right so I

01:09:16   say we call it show all right i want to

01:09:18   say one thing I never mentioned this is

01:09:20   one thing I just don't mention it hears

01:09:21   that I want to talk about the the

01:09:22   sponsorship anybody out there listens to

01:09:24   the show you got a product or service

01:09:26   that you think the talk show audience

01:09:28   would be interested in

01:09:29   I get in touch i don't really have a

01:09:31   good mechanism for this I have a really

01:09:33   nice little page for during fireball

01:09:34   sponsorships people go there and they

01:09:36   can see the schedule and there's a

01:09:38   little email address i don't have

01:09:39   anything like that for the talk show i

01:09:40   feel like its it i don't know i gotta

01:09:44   set something up but in the meantime

01:09:45   just go to the daring fireball

01:09:47   sponsorship page go to during fireball

01:09:49   click on sponsorships just click the

01:09:50   email there and tell me that you want to

01:09:52   sponsor the talk show instead of daring

01:09:54   fireball on but I've got some good guess

01:09:57   already lined up not molt's good guess

01:09:59   for the next couple of episodes and

01:10:04   there's a couple of sponsorship spots

01:10:05   open on all of them so anybody out there

01:10:08   you got a product or service that that

01:10:10   you want this this audience to know

01:10:12   about get in touch now most thank you

01:10:15   very much for being so yeah

01:10:17   oh you're welcome the best