Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► brought to you by braintree code for [TS]

00:00:05 ◼   ► easy online payments one more right now [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► visit braintree payments dot-com / [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► supertrain [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► hello hi John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► good it's little early [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► yeah yeah you know it is it you know [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► actually we're starting early good for [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► you [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► yeah 3 minutes early ding dong woo hoo [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► that's how about the place next door how [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► they're like renovating for two months I [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► told you about this right yeah you did [TS]

00:00:40 ◼   ► oh my god citizens of banging the way [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► out yeah there's some banging also i [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► mean it's gonna clear this up because [TS]

00:00:47 ◼   ► there may be some noise i will do my [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► usual poor attempt to mute but uh yeah I [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► think this play it's a shitshow the the [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► Terran stuff i think these guys might be [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► a little bit off the books [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► mmm the contractors they've got busy [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► yeah i mean for example my daughter I'd [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► like to walk by and just gonna stick our [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► heads in to see what's going on course [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► yes so we noticed that they tour of a [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► bunch of the floor and there were lots [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► of like several inches to a foot deep [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► pools of water in the place which [TS]

00:01:18 ◼   ► doesn't seem normal as part of the [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► demolition process knowing you it's a [TS]

00:01:22 ◼   ► very sandy soil where you are absolutely [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► should be excellent drainage yeah yeah [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► you think so and but then we walked by [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► and there was a whole bunch of you know [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► the orange like heavy duty extension [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► cord how the budget that's sitting in a [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► pool of water right now listen I'm no [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► junior high safety video but just here [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► to say I don't know if that's the best [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► practicing construction was it plugged [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► into anything like just resting my just [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► been storing it in the water was like I [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► guess it's safe for me that is [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► that's actually pretty standard yeah [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► pretty standard yet women if you if you [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► read the manual actually if you buy an [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► extension cord was right on it [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► stormwater don't snore at the store in [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► standing water storage standing water [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► um listen one thing huh [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► you know what standing water gets the [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► gas face [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► yeah boom you know what I i forgot to [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► get mine on keyboard all i have right [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► now Mikey Porsha get my show you my [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► keyboard yeah i don't know i think the [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► people like to hear the keyboard because [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► they know they know that research being [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► done they know that they know the work [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► is getting you know what I you know [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► let's let's let's let's clear the air [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► about this because people right you know [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► i do it right in [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► they were they right in a sentence [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► letters yeah you know and you know [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► everybody's got a thought in that that's [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► ok but you know if you hear me typing or [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► johns talking please don't assume that [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► i'm bored assume that it's my job to [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► make the show go and have to show things [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► and sometimes that requires typing so [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► today you're really gonna hear it see [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► this i haven't used this one in a while [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► but this is what this one sounds like [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► the thing that the thing that viewers [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► should know is that you know it is you [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► cannot on this show who you cannot let [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► your guard down for a second all you [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► kidding me you know like you couldn't [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► get bored and start surfing the internet [TS]

00:03:08 ◼   ► because whoa you might come back into [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► the conversation and we're all the way [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► out you know we're all the way out [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► talking about which dog is which Beatle [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► you know like what if you had to do a [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► velvet painting of the beatles as dog on [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► capturing that who would be what right [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► you're gonna and you're going to just be [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► like oh sorry i was surfing the web and [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► I i didn't get better [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► july worry I lose sleep over this [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► because i think a lot of people you know [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► god bless you I'm glad you're enjoying [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► podcast welcome i'm glad but I worry [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► sometimes that people get so used to [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► listen to these goddamn spoon-fed [TS]

00:03:43 ◼   ► podcasts [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► wow you know in a good way like I'm glad [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► it's nice relaxing [TS]

00:03:47 ◼   ► sure sure this kind of shows we go like [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► hey we're back [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► here's the thing we're talking about and [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► this is what we're going to talk about [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► here you can't do that you can't go get [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► a beverage and just hope you're going to [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► catch up your mind gold you're leaving [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► color in the ground [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► I think a lot of the reason that people [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► listen to this program over and over [TS]

00:04:04 ◼   ► four sometimes five times all the way [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► through the entire series [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► who is it the first time I listen to it [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► on in their car [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► yeah matter like i didn't get all that [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► and so the second time I listen to it [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► while they were doing the dishes still [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► who [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► so the third time they sat in their [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► living rooms upstairs 3rd time they're [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► angry the other angry there staring at [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► the speaker now they're not listening to [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► internet put it on this the speaker and [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► have seen accuracies their lives staring [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► at the speaker yeah they realize that [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► wasn't enough [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► uh-huh but you know the sixth time you [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► listen you realize it's really your [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► fault as a listener [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► well the six-time presumably you have a [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► transcript in your hand [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► yeah you're listening to the program [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► eyes closed in front of a speaker [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► Johnny are you checking your email why [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► you're doing this no I'm afraid you [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► cannot know you gonna sit you're gonna [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► sit like a gentleman [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► yeah and you're gonna listen you for all [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► those notes you took in your Italian [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► nope you're gonna realize how much you [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► got wrong because you miss things is [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► your car is your is your child sitting [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► in a car seat babbling some fucking kid [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► nonsense to me know now [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► no leave it that's right are you sitting [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► are you waiting for the light to change [TS]

00:05:12 ◼   ► right all the food there's a lot to get [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► i was at a conference this past week who [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► you went all the way to the sudden so [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► conference [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► yeah the wonderful zoso conference uh [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► run by wonderful and bees and it was [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► there were a lot of podcasters there [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► no yeah it's it's lousy with podcast [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► lousy with podcast also look at a lot of [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► makers there John every single person [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► there was a maker who or a creative some [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► kind but the and and they're more on [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► that I'm gonna circle back to that ok [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► but a lot of podcasters and also a lot [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► of podcast consumers interesting so in a [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► way it was sort of a podcast trade fair [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► huh [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► there are a lot of booths a you would go [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► around and pick up swagg each booth as [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► long as they could get your email [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► address [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► yeah sure no no that's not how it [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► happened at all but a lot of people want [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► to talk to me first of all I want to [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► talk to me about you that [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► yeah because they say oh merlin mann is [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► it true that and I'm like let me stop [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► you right there probably [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► well not awkward oh no don't you talk to [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► people having children is a Merlin what [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► this Merlin mean when he and then I say [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► let me stop you right there [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► god I have no idea this is this is [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► literally my nightmare [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► no no it's wonderful there's so many [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► Merlin fans out there my god there and [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► they're starved for Merlin time and so [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► that's what I'm there for [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► kind of sort of Merlin problem and then [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► but the interesting thing is talking to [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► other podcasters about their experience [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► podcasting oh you know you know sitting [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► around a big table there's a big roast [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► on the table but candelabra are burnin [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► the wine is flowing the wine is flowing [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► someone's playing a lute that is we are [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► pretty much just out at nine tyke i [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► guess and then everyone has a different [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► experience because everyone this is the [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► crazy thing about podcasting that a lot [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► of people don't know everyone does a [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► different kind of podcast everyone does [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► a different kind of podcast yeah it's a [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► it's a situation where one person's [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► podcast seems like it should be [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► instructive for another person doing a [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► podcast but really every podcast is [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► different Merlin oh my god that's [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► actually so much like life it's [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► strangely like life where people like to [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► give advice because they went through [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► the mouse maze in this given way and [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► they found cheese and didn't die so that [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► pretty sure that you write a book about [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► it well and what what and who moved my [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► cheese right became a national and [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► international bestseller who my feeling [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► about it was a lot of what people want [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► to talk about is podcasting was how does [TS]

00:07:56 ◼   ► one make a living podcast well and you [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► know what I wanted to talk about is why [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► is podcasting such an illegitimate art [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► form because it really is up to him to [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► me okay [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► oh you know what I saw many notes i just [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► want to say in passing us I mean it [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► sounds like you did talk to a lot of [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► people like and you tell me the just [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► that I got people have many quotes from [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► you on the twitter which is an online [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► service and you [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► it sounds like you were talking about [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► you pushed back against the idea of [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► doing this because it was too felt too [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► easy that was a fair this is ultimately [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► the big question right I as I was / as i [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► was preparing to go onstage it as in all [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► cases when you go on stage it never [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► turns out the way you planned it [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► one of the things i was thinking about [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► quite a bit was that extemporaneous [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► performance comes very naturally to me [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► for a lot of people it's it's it's very [TS]

00:08:57 ◼   ► hard right they don't want to get you [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► know it's like everybody's nightmare [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► right you're pushed out onstage with and [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► you have no and you're not prepared they [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► say they say animals has been updated [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► recently but it's been said as [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► conventional wisdom for a long time that [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► American second greatest fears death and [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► their first greatest fear is public [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► speaking [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► add to that whether or not that's [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► exactly true or accurate [TS]

00:09:18 ◼   ► add to that going out and winning it [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► going on that that's the stuff of [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► nightmares for a lot right but i think [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► it really is right you push out there [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► and and it's and your and the lights [TS]

00:09:27 ◼   ► come on and it's a big room full of [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► people you don't know what you're there [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► to do and watching people at this [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► conference to get up and give speeches [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► it was obvious that a lot of lot of the [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► speaker's even though they were they [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► were professionally very accomplished [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► everyone was very interested in what [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► they had to say they were full of [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► anxiety just about the performance of [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► their talk like I have to go out and [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► talk for 20 minutes in front of people [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► and so they have a PowerPoint and they [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► they have their script and their script [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► is is scrolling at their feet on a [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► television set and when I was watching [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► for backstage a lot of times you know [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► the speaker's very naturalistic but [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► there it's word-for-word kind of their [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► prepared text and so part of what i [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► wanted to talk about was look I'm [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► walking out here i have no I'm i have [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► really done very little preparation [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► about what I'm going to say [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► and honestly if if if I looked over to [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► the side of the stage after my 20 [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► minutes was done and there was somebody [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► holding a sign that said can you stretch [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► it for another hour [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► I'd be like great like this kind of [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► thing it's not like you're like you're [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► playing at the opening of them all right [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► there there's nobody is nobody's [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► repelling behind [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► stretch shirt still a visit at isn't [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► propelling well i'm playing with no [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► monitors at 7am in front of the mall now [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► this is just me talking to you about [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► stuff and I could do it for hours but [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► the but somehow the fact that it is [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► everyone's greatest fear and and for [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► most people very difficult to do doesn't [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► impart any sense that doing it is like a [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► technical skill that should be reward [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► should be rewarded cook commensurate [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► with its difficulty right like if you if [TS]

00:11:29 ◼   ► you are a mathematician everybody [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► recognizes that that's very difficult [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► they don't know how to do it and they [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► say this is something that that you [TS]

00:11:38 ◼   ► should be either rewarded for with pay [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► or with stature if you can run a [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► four-minute mile you know you get a [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► medal or everybody applauds but there's [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► a sense of if you can get up and wing it [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► that you're getting away with murder [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► somehow you know everyone's reactions [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► are like Oh mm um you didn't try very [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► hard or you know there's a there's this [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► feeling or men and maybe it's just me [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► maybe I'm just the one carrying this but [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► that somehow the person that slaved for [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► weeks over the powerpoint demonstration [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► in order that they control their anxiety [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► enough to give a kind of stilted [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► performance has done more work and [TS]

00:12:27 ◼   ► therefore their performances more valid [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► than the person who can get up and given [TS]

00:12:35 ◼   ► an entertaining talk without notes and [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► this was a this was this is something [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► that's always kind of been my I'm always [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► wrestling with this right because the [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► the most fun I have is doing this [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► podcast in some ways it's something I'm [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► very very proud of or maybe even the [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► most proud of but we you and I just get [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► on here and wing it every week and so it [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► also feels a little illegitimate like [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► cheating [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► yeah that this be our that this be [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► something were rewarded for that this [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► b.i.g even considered a job over because [TS]

00:13:12 ◼   ► it's just like a two guys jacking off [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► whoa [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► and it's it's it's it's a skill set [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► it'sit's just as difficult as as being a [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► good painter or something but it seems [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► it seems like i don't know somehow [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► invalid who and I wanted to talk about [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► that but then when I got on stage I just [TS]

00:13:34 ◼   ► made like 40 minutes of Portland jokes [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► and then drop trial flip the audience [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► off went and then standing out classic [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► Roderick you know what I mean because [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► that's my brand you know and that's what [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► people come and that's what they expect [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► when you look nice today was there we [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► actually mostly at well at adams request [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► we swore that we would make poop jokes [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► huh and it's got requests we swore that [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► we would make Portland jokes and then we [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► went out there and i did about 40 [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► minutes of Portland poop jokes [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► yeah it was all put Portland all poop [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► you can't help yourself yeah i'll put a [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► little bit yeah yeah um so I don't know [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► you know I I thought I got thoughts [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► yeah I look at people better you know [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► really really really really put a lot of [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► effort into doing these things that are [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► sort of that are second nature to me and [TS]

00:14:28 ◼   ► obviously like I would have to put a lot [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► of effort into doing something you know [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► work right [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► that's what's really hard for me to do [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► your very food [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► this came up on the very special relayed [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► FM members-only edition of reconcile [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► differences on what you were kind enough [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► to guests that came up at the end where [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► you're saying you wish you were you wish [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► you were more than a jack-of-all-trades [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► you wish you are really good at [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► something and our friend John syracuse [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► it took me to task on this thing you're [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► a professional musician like yeah you [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► you get paid you get to do stuff or not [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► get to do stuff I know to what do you [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► mean again [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► and then it's gonna be its own reward [TS]

00:15:07 ◼   ► man everybody's trying to steal your [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► copper pipe but the but yeah I think he [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► made an interesting point which is that [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► he ran okay let me try something up this [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► way I think that so I I want to talk [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► more about a bunch of details that are [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► wrapped up in what you're saying that [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► have to do with things like how you feel [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► about the audience is feeling about you [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► what are the stakes for it going wrong [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► because i think that greatly changes the [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► equation for a lot of people but set [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► that aside for a minute I think anything [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► that doesn't feel impossibly difficult [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► to US doesn't feel like work and I think [TS]

00:15:40 ◼   ► that's a problem and i'm not talking [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► about anything here and I I this is a [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► very back to work is kind of point to [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► make but i think a lot of us are [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► suspicious of things that aren't where [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► we have like I don't know if it's sunk [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► cost fallacy or something but where if [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► we put a bunch of effort time education [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► and resources into one part of our life [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► and that's not the part that is our job [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► we feel like we're it work with feel [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► like we're being not just not just that [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► were getting away with something but [TS]

00:16:08 ◼   ► that we're like almost we're being [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► disloyal to the time that we spend in [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► the past and I think that sometimes [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► that's great because it can make you [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► want to stick with it and try harder and [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► you know thrive but other times it [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► really works across purposes because [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► it's not just that it's easy but if it's [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► something that feels good to do I think [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► people are suspicious of it and that's a [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► very privileged thing to say because [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► we're really we're really fortunate a [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► lot of ways to get to do what we're [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► doing but I think that's true for almost [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► everybody were like if you feel like [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► there's this some some part of us and [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► I'm I'm from the Midwest your mantra [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► Ohio your mom is from Ohio [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► I think there is a certain kind of I [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► don't know if it's Puritan but there's a [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► certain kind of Midwestern feeling that [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► if you're happy you're probably doing [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► something wrong [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► yeah i think it's i think it's quicker [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► but but yeah i agree if you're happy you [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► must be doing something wrong [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► that's I mean that's reductive and I'm [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► trying to make this about more than just [TS]

00:17:05 ◼   ► this podcast but yeah get the other [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► thing just just just to circle back that [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► one thing was on and we'll get back to [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► beatles dogs i hope but in that case [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► think about this though you're going in [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► front of a bunch of people wear well [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► let's put it this way [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► were you worried worried worried that [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► the audience would not be receptive to [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► what you had to say what were you [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► concerned really like losing sleep over [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► like whether people would be going into [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► this with a negative feeling about you [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► pretty loaded for bear or conversely [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► like were you worried that you had to [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► make a certain case to that particular [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► audience and did that cause you stress [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► before the talk I mean there's a little [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► bit of stress now involved in getting up [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► and giving speeches just because the [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► because the atmosphere around [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► mansplaining particularly middle-aged [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► white men explaining middle mansplaining [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► is so fraught right that there's there [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► are camps in which my presence at an [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► event is already suspect already [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► problematic and so you know standing up [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► on stage in front of people and being my [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► natural self and saying hello everyone [TS]

00:18:26 ◼   ► I'm a big middle-aged white guy didn't [TS]

00:18:29 ◼   ► suck a bag of different things to say [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► about stuff [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► nice to meet you I've got ideas about [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► things [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► there's there is now a you know like an [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► inhibition that that there will be [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► people in the audience primed to be at [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► to be looking for a problem or or you [TS]

00:18:53 ◼   ► know and they're one end and at the last [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► at this XOXO there was up there was a [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► person who to me very clearly came [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► already angry and found a way to fit [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► like and tweeted halfway through my [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► presentation about my unexamined [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► privilege halfway through a presentation [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► that you know she she did not bother 22 [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► and she didn't tweet at the end right so [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► maybe by the end she had [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► she had heard things in the second half [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► of the presentation that made her [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► realize that the first half of the [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► presentation was set up and then the you [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► know the message of the second half [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► relieves the tension of the first half [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► it's a big part of performance so [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► halfway through she's already tweeting [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► about my own examine privilege and my [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► feeling is that she came into the [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► conference either having already [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► underlined by name as a person that she [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► was going to you know was going to do a [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► up a critique of on these on this topic [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► right i mean she was she was already mad [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► that i was there and then up and then [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► someone can Fred I think it's the same [TS]

00:20:11 ◼   ► woman confronted me later in the middle [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► of a in like got up and came over and [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► yelled at me in the audience because I [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► got up to [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► i got up at the end of someone else's [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► presentation did a little bit of a Kanye [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► like Taylor I'm gonna let you finish but [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► I just have an anecdote here that'll and [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► you know again I'm a performer was it [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► was someone you know [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► no no I mean that the person you're [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► conning know uh but they are fellow [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► performer and I'm there as a paper [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► former and my job is to perform and I [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► know what to provide oh what a good [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► performances right I'm not I know I'm [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► not stepping on anybody it was a had an [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► anecdote it was apropos it everybody [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► liked it but this person same person i [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► think you know came over and gave me a [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► in a in an exaggerated stage whisper [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► which seemed to be trying to draw [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► attention to herself [TS]

00:21:09 ◼   ► they gave me a lecture about how I how [TS]

00:21:12 ◼   ► rude i had been in you know in standing [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► up and making a comment to the room and [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► she was entirely incorrect and again [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► felt like she came into the event loaded [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► for bear looking for a reason you know [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► so there is a certain amount of that [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► when I'm preparing to give a talk at [TS]

00:21:35 ◼   ► XOXO for instance where I'm like you [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► know is there going to be something in [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► my eye you know I know there's not gonna [TS]

00:21:43 ◼   ► be anything in my presentation but is [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► there just something in my main you know [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► something in just my in my person that [TS]

00:21:53 ◼   ► someone in the audience is going to find [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► it is going to trigger something is [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► going to trigger someone else just in [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► the way that i carry myself in the sharp [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► my voice in my casualness in the fat in [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► the very fact that i am comfortable [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► standing up in front of a room that [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► alone is evidence of my status as a [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► white male in a patriarchal culture and [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► so my comfort is a priori on offense and [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► reflecting on my comfort in anything [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► other than an apologetic tone for its [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► very existence is an offense so but I [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► don't have any question about my ability [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► to extemporaneously entertain an [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► audience or to begin a story take it [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► through a through a journey down a set [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► of Rapids and at the end of the story [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► you know have it have performed an arc [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► and and at the end there's some some [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► resolution and it feels like a complete [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► complete work and it's like a play with [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► acts so I know how to do that and I [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► don't either i'm not up in the middle of [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► the night going i hope that I don't get [TS]

00:23:10 ◼   ► halfway through and and blank or I hope [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► you know that the audit that I'm not up [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► there dying you know that stuff doesn't [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► really worry I've died a thousand deaths [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► in front of a crowd and it's that it [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► doesn't i'm not scared of right if i'm [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► laying jokes out there and the and the [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► laughter is tepid and it and it feels [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► like boy I really lost this audience a [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► long time ago i still can get them back [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► you get him back just by saying boy lost [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► you guys a long time ago and my little [TS]

00:23:44 ◼   ► family and conversely [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► pandering to what you perceive to be [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► some part of the audience that I'm gonna [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► put this pandering to there's no way to [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► inoculate yourself is the way I would [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► put it is that you know I think [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► sometimes when I'm talking to people who [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► are thinking about doing a thing [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► whatever that thing is one of the things [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► I feel like I've learned it's never easy [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► but you have to just accept that there [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► are always going to be people who just [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► don't like you and they don't like what [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► this is very very simple but this is the [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► kind of thing where I think people need [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► to hear this i know i need to hear this [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► is that sometimes there are going to be [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► people who just like on your very best [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► day the best that you're capable of [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► they still just basically don't like you [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► it doesn't make him a bad person it [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► doesn't make them prejudice [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► I'm that way about some people there's [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► just some people like you know guy fieri [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► gonna tell you like his persona bugs me [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► but he seems like a genuinely nice guy [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► but I don't like his persona I would not [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► seek out his programming and that's why [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► sometimes gets to be a joke on here but [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► along trying to say is that like what [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► you what you can't do is you don't cut [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► muscle on the parts of your personality [TS]

00:24:55 ◼   ► or your performance style that are that [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► are a big part of who you are and what [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► you do like sometimes you know I'm not [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► the biggest fan of magic tricks and [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► illusions but I would never want to go [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► to a show where the person onstage [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► decides they're gonna do less magic in [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► order to make me happy because that's [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► not what the show is about but that said [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► I want to circle back to this later when [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► you're done but the this is this is the [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► thing that's different though is you [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► know I i think a big part of your one's [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► confidence going on stages at the very [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► least like if this thing goes totally [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► wrong if it goes terrible if I feel [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► misunderstood if I say something dumb in [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► a way I didn't mean to say like what are [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► the stakes and I think that feeling of [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► steaks is a big part of what makes [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► people very reluctant to do anything in [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► front of other people and it's also what [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► causes people to not just prepare but to [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► maybe over-prepare until they eventually [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► squeeze every bit of personality and the [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► potential for the human soul of what [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► they're doing [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► I'm not going to criticize that like if [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► you're at apple and you are in a group [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► whose I don't know whatever the [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► definition of not a successful group it [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► up [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► this and you have to get up in front of [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► a bunch of people who are used to [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► fantastic presentations about successful [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► products and you've got to be the one [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► who goes up in your pack your PowerPoint [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► deck goes wrong and you have to report [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► that results I'd be nervous about that [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► too [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► it's nice to be in a place where you [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► feel like I can be the person I want to [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► be in front of these people with the [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► level of preparation i think is [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► appropriate and do what I think is best [TS]

00:26:20 ◼   ► to put on a good show and you're a [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► performer that's like--that's what they [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► bring you in for [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► but i think the challenge is and and you [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► know and and XOXO is a is a place where [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► the where that the temperatures turned [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► up a little bit on this which is that at [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► XOXO me talking to this group of people [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► that are largely my peers the stakes are [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► one thing but because it's going on the [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► internet and because it's never a [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► hundred percent clear what the what the [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► of the moment issue is now it's possible [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► that you could because we see it all the [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► time someone gets up and gives what they [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► think is in a an innocent or innocuous [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► presentation that they are expecting is [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► going to be received one way or or could [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► we also stipulate it's it's something [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► where you maybe even took pains to have [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► it not be something that's broadly [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► offensive maybe then you maybe you think [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► you're saying something from maybe even [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► a vulnerable point about yourself that [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► you don't you know you're absolutely not [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► there to hurt anybody's feelings or to [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► exercise privilege right i mean isn't [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► that part of it is like even if you feel [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► like you've prepared for that you still [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► can't really be prepared for that you [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► cannot because I mean I think you can [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► buy doing exactly what you just said [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► which is just sort of do less magic but [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► if you are trying to if you're trying to [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► do something original and unusual and do [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► something in within your character that [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► where you're you are pushing boundaries [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► which is a thing that we always [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► particularly as artists you need to push [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► boundaries that is that is the game [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► that's how we advance the whole story [TS]

00:28:10 ◼   ► the human story push boundaries [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► but but you get into a posture where [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► we're bound Ruiz are thought of as a [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► different thing or or respecting [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► boundaries is also a like a prime [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► directive and how to push boundaries and [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► respect boundaries at the same time I [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► mean every person is trying to do it in [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► a different way but you can never know [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► is whether your offhand comment your [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► awkward attempt to recover from a joke [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► you're um you know you're panicked [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► response to a ejaculation from the crowd [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► that caught you off guard that you [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► didn't expect whether that is going to [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► be looped and put into the world and [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► you're going to be the next one that's [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► pilloried and that's the thing you just [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► can't all you can do now is trust that [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► all the years that you've spent on the [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► balance beam learning how to do [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► gymnastics is going to save you in that [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► moment but i see i see people take the [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► stage and that their panic is not just [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► like what if you know what [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► what if i walk out onstage and I look [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► down and I'm not wearing any clothes but [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► it's also like what if i get out there [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► and in the middle of a thing that's [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► going great i say the wrong thing either [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► because it's written in my speech and I [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► didn't realize that it's that the word I [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► choses is a word that two days ago [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► became incredibly fraught or because [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► somebody in the crowd goes that's not [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► funny and I reply to them just in the [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► spirit of the moment and that you know [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► and the and that becomes a thing that [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► even if it worked in the room you know [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► what I mean like even if everybody at [TS]

00:30:03 ◼   ► the place gets it and goes yeah but it [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► changes it changes the temperature [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► well but but if the one person in the [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► room that as you described earlier who [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► just isn't going to like you no matter [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► what your their guy fieri if that person [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► is is built or came with a plan [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► and his tape recording you and put it [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► online and either in context or out and [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► says look at this [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► I mean a lot of times you can put [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► somebody's comments completely in [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► context it's not always a question of of [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► d contextualizing you put a completely [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► in context but if you put if you put a [TS]

00:30:43 ◼   ► like a scroll underneath that says [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► everything you know everything that's [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► being said here is offensive [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► you can call you can you can take the [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► context you can change the context just [TS]

00:30:56 ◼   ► by captioning [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► oh yeah bye-bye hang a lantern on am [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► yeah right so it's like if I was [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► watching this video without any [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► background music I would feel like this [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► was an interesting scene but all of a [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► sudden there's there's background music [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► flown in the form of critical context or [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► or it you know just like here the [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► strings are getting all tense now and [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► all the sudden these words have a all [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► the sudden these words are now either [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► offensive or have a different meaning [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► so so yeah the stakes the potential [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► stakes have changed for every kind of [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► one of these things and I'm not worried [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► about it at in my core you know because [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► because there's a very real risk and I [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► you know I felt it just between you and [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► me and and sort of with everybody in our [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► in our peer group specifically of white [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► middle-aged guys making things that we [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► all recognize that at some point or [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► another we may be up on the cross [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► it's it's part of the it's just part of [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► the new reality and lots of people have [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► spent a lot of time up on the cross in [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► the past and Israeli s though not [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► necessarily I mean Jesus was a [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► middle-aged white guy he's the first one [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► is middle-aged for his time I think yeah [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► yeah right because people don't live to [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► be 60 although i heard that that was [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► that's recently dispel turns out [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► but you know what I'm saying like you [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► think I do i mean i-i I boy I got mixed [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► super mixed not feelings just thoughts [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► about about a lot of this stuff i mean [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► one thing to keep in mind is that I try [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► to keep I'm not trying to school you but [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► one thing I try to keep in mind is that [TS]

00:32:56 ◼   ► we one thing that makes a potentially [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► makes our American experiment good is [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► that there are people that will always [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► be opposed to each other and that's okay [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► i mean this gets a little bit to the [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► whole you know we can all agree on [TS]

00:33:10 ◼   ► cheese thing where we feel this need to [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► find something in common when well you [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► know if we are antithetical e opposed to [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► this one's to a certain given point like [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► we have to accept that that's that's [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► part of the conversation and that maybe [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► we maybe neither one of us should say [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► things we don't think are true in order [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► to look like we're being collegio that's [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► that's a big part of it the any other [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► part of it is that there's i'm looking [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► at the wikipedia page for a term i [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► learned in this election cycle oppo [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► which is short for opposition research [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► and it's the kind of dossiers that get [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► compiled on people it's you know along [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► the lines of like somebody following a [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► candidate around with a camera recording [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► every single thing they say and then you [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► know being able to go in and highlight [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► you know for certain [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► yeah i mean but the thing is that's [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► that's I mean I guess the thing is [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► though like is that bad is that bad that [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► there are people who just don't like us [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► or don't like a given person for four [TS]

00:34:03 ◼   ► reasons to the cultural could be [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► political [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► I mean sometimes that means racism but a [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► lot of time it doesn't it just means [TS]

00:34:10 ◼   ► that's just that's just not for me or [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► the way that this person presents is [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► antithetical to the stuff that I believe [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► in is that means either one of us has to [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► change [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► not necessarily I don't think I mean I'm [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► not trying to say i'm not trying to say [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► put the KKK up at XOXO that's a lot of [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► letters but i'm trying to say i like [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► that's part of being a grown-up is just [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► realizing that like you should your this [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► is not seventh grade you guys don't [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► change your personality to please [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► whoever happens to be in the room or [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► you're never going to become an actual [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► person i think that the I think that [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► we're in a state and I was thinking [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► about this the other day we used to live [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► in a world in which the media ostensibly [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► tried to be nonpartisan independent [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► tried to be fair and balanced and [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► there's a ton of media critique that you [TS]

00:35:08 ◼   ► know over the years explain to us like [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► the media was not fair and balanced the [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► video was operating you know that i'm [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► talking mainstream media in a in a [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► closed system but he just in in older [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► times just called the press the press [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► right like the people who were for [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► example not reporting on you know [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► results health state sure or Kennedy's [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► Addison's disease yeah but with the [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► presumption I think of a world kind of [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► close to the one we're living in now [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► where there's a lot more access the B we [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► can see more deeply you could not you [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► could not hide Kennedy's Addison's [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► disease now right because they're just [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► there are a lot of people that aren't [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► part of the the tiny little club anymore [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► that lets see that is newsworthy and our [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► and it would be capable of reporting but [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► what I don't think we I don't think 25 [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► years ago media prognosticator 'he's [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► could have seen could have foreseen a [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► world in which media now is deeply and [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► universally biased like every single [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► media outlet nobody's pretending to be [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► unbiased anymore it's it's quite the [TS]

00:36:26 ◼   ► opposite [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► every single everything everybody is a [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► reporter and everybody is putting a real [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► stamp on it and I'm i was thinking like [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► is universally biased media in some ways [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► accomplishing a lack of bias or or like [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► your ability to put you take if you take [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► all the reporting as a whole [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► yeah if you take it I wasn't trying to [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► like insert false equivalency into every [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► single person's coverage you look at [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► this as many many different voices that [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► understandably have a point of view [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► yeah and that ultimately if you're [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► trying up a more nuanced idea of what is [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► what actually transpired is it go is [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► accomplishable right you can look at it [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► you can look at all of the reporting [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► across a wide spectrum and get maybe [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► even a better picture of what happened [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► then if you're if five people are [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► they're trying to be on by its not [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► historically what papers in the UK have [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► done [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► I mean it has not historically been [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► certain papers even to this day that the [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► Guardian tends to be more liberal than [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► theirs isn't how it's worked [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► historically there there it's like that [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► was more they were more openly [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► contentious but they were still major I [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► mean they get it you needed resources to [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► be able to be heard and resources always [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► come with strings attached and now we [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► just don't have that right you don't [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► need you don't need any resources if [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► you're the one person sitting there with [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► your cell phone when a comet streaks [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► across the sky yet that you did your [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► footage will find a place in the world [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► right here mean youyou that will be on [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► the news tomorrow even if you're the [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► only one that caught it and that doesn't [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► you don't have you're not a reporter [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► you're not getting you're not out there [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► working your beach and that's something [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► there's a distinction there that started [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► i'm gonna get in the nineteen eighties [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► which is if you had a portable video [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► camera [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► you could be the one who is actually [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► recording the media and res like you're [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► basically Ronnie can King right but the [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► things you've always been there has [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► always been the opportunity for you to [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► be interviewed as a witness of a thing [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► but as the witness of a thing I don't [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► need a semiotic air your Europe you're [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► basically part of the story now but [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► you're not the one who's actually [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► bringing the evidence of that to the [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► public [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► right right it's still not still like a [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► point of view you're the person who says [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► I saw the accident and this is what [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► happened well I saw the accident and [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► this is what happened [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► whereas I think there is that we tend to [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► give more weight to something like you [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► know that the Bigfoot tape right i mean [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► like when you're able to go out and say [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► you know [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► i recorded this that has primacy and and [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► that's something that didn't exist as [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► widely before release the eighties [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► probably the nineties right but i think [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► the the the other side and the thing [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► that we're now in a I don't know whether [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► this is a transitional moment or whether [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► it's this is this is the thing about [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► transitional moments right you don't [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► know whether this is just a five-year [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► blip or whether this is the beginning of [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► a new way of thinking and in most cases [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► i think it's both right it's both a [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► five-year blip and also five years from [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► now we're going to be on the other side [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► of this and will be somewhere different [TS]

00:39:52 ◼   ► than we would have been but everybody's [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► a pundit now everybody's x everybody [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► thinks that they're hot take is also [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► newsworthy and that's what makes the [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► that's what makes the moment so pregnant [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► like that and and I thought about this [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► relative to this woman coming up to me [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► in the audience and trying to dress me [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► down for a thing [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► ultimately what happened was i did a [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► performance and she didn't like the [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► performance and in that sense it's just [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► like you say you don't have to be liked [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► by everybody there's always going to be [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► somebody that doesn't like Guy Fieri and [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► they're not going to like that [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► performance but her sense of her own [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► importance or her sense of her role in [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► that situation was not like I didn't [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► like that performance but rather she saw [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► herself as the I mean her job in that [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► situation was to school me and shame me [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► and correct the wrong and she had no [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► agency there she wasn't a stakeholder [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► she was just purchased a observer but [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► all of a sudden she adopted it was now [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► her responsibility to on behalf of the [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► people onstage fellow performers on [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► behalf of them [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► she needed now to write this injustice [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► and that's new and and it isn't simply [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► like I don't I didn't like that [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► I'm i don't like that performer I didn't [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► like that performance and in the past [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► you would go home and you dried-up you'd [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► write up a blog post or you would write [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► an article for the local newspaper that [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► said this was a performance I thought it [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► was bad but to add that other elements [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► of you know i am a i'm a crusader [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► personally for and and both working as a [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► as a like a media member and also as a [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► what is this other what what is this [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► other job you know the job of the the [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► like the the sort of puritanical the the [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► the one picking up the first stone you [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► know almost but I mean here's the thing [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► is the part of his shifting the idea of [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► what we consider a political space so [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► you know the kinds of folks who started [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► let's say in particular you can have [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► people who were striking for union [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► issues in previous generations or in the [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► sixties and seventies people who are [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► protesting whether that is segregation [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► or protesting nuclear proliferation but [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► you know there are people who took an [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► active role in saying like i need to to [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► paraphrase that guy from berkeley you [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► know throw yourself upon the gears [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► it's my job here to go in and disrupt [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► what's happening here because and again [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► we can all disagree on whether it is [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► appropriate or not but I'm just saying [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► there was a time when you could say look [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► you know I I don't want to have a [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► nuclear reactor my backyard [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► I'm going to chain myself to a fence or [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► the kind of folks who would say like I'm [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► gonna go put a daisy into the the police [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► officers rifle with whatever but it's [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► just that now today it feels like and I [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► don't have a strong super strong opinion [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► but I'm just suggesting [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► that now the politics has moved from you [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► know Superfund sites two stages and the [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► people who want to throw themselves upon [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► the gears and levers are by the are [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► taking sent a similar role to what [TS]

00:43:46 ◼   ► people would have done to protest in a [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► different time whether I agree with them [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► or not they feel so strongly about this [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► that they can't allow this to go on [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► interrupted yeah is I mean I guess what [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► I mean there's not really a question [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► there do you see any analog between what [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► people were doing in previous [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► generations to whether that's the lights [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► you know attacking mechanical devices or [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► whether that's people saying you know [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► I'm gonna sit at this lunch counter do [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► you see if you don't you see that as [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► part of some extension of a protest to [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► say I'm just doing it in a different [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► place now I well I mean I i see exactly [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► the point you're making [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► and I wonder and i think it's i think [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► it's related to the fact that right now [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► it's very clear to members of our [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► community though the left-right that [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► we're living in a world in which blacks [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► and Hispanics and women and transgender [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► people are being oppressed by a white [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► patriarchal of like uber culture and [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► when you listen to the Trump supporters [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► they are equally convinced that white [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► Christian America is being violently [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► oppressed by the like Mochaccino [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► coalition of liberal intellectual media [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► Hollywood well yeah that's that that's [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► the tease out is it sits cysts they see [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► that as systemic oppression [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► yeah but that we are that the left is [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► the is the majority is them is the mega [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► culture and that they're that the white [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► Christian America is is increasingly [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► like [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► being violently suppressed and when you [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► start to listen to everyone's story now [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► in the u.s. he realized that every [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► single person every single political [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► group every every entity has a narrative [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► in which they are being victimized and [TS]

00:46:11 ◼   ► oppressed by a majority out and and it [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► leaves me with the feeling that not [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► every single person is not every group [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► of people in America can be [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► simultaneously oppressed by a by a [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► majority but that is the that is the [TS]

00:46:32 ◼   ► current it's not it's not just a [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► vocabulary and it's not an expedient [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► political system it's a it's heartfelt [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► belief and from our side [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► it's very clear it in the minutiae right [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► in each individual case of police [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► brutality or of all the injustice 'as a [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► rape culture and cetera [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► each one of those things in its [TS]

00:46:59 ◼   ► specificity it's very clear who the [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► oppressor is and what our job as the [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► oppressed or representatives of the [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► oppressed or allies of the oppressed [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► like where where our work should be [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► where to focus our efforts right but you [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► listen to the other side of the aisle [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► and in the specificity of their [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► oppression there's just exactly the same [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► conviction that in this instance and in [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► that instance and in that instance the [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► oppression is so clear and so dramatic [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► and so threatening and they are also [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► stringing together a narrative extremely [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► compelling to themselves that those that [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► the specificity of those things [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► spells a you know a widespread culture [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► of intolerance that's coming from the [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► other side of the aisle and so although [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► I absolutely see like the analogy you're [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► making to the anti-war movement with the [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► civil rights movement where people are [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► our see an injustice and are trying to [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► change themselves to to the gates of the [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► weapons plant that is there percent i [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► think that is absolutely people's [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► perception of their of the work that [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► they're doing but it's happening it's [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► more and more granular all the time [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► until you meet people who use who are [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► also i mean like again not to not to [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► just keep dumping on this this one [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► individual but she was a white woman at [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► a at a conference you had to apply to [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► attend that cost a lot of money to [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► attend but she was perceiving herself [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► not only as a victim but also as a [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► defender of other people that she was [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► imposing victimhood on you get the sense [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► that this is happening is the way you're [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► describing this kind of sounds like it's [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► blanket party on John you get the [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► feeling this person was there to do [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► other things of this sort with different [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► ideas and causes or do you think she [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► just was specifically wanted to take you [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► out [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► I I mean who knows I'm it's not like I [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► went and read her Twitter feed but her [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► her comments to me in both instances [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► were um you know like presupposed a [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► truth that didn't exist like she was [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► judging me based on my appearance and [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► presumed from my appearance and my [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► position at the festival that I was all [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► these things that she was against her [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► and she came into the festival already [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► against those things and found a way [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► that we found a way to it to fit my [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► behavior however little it resembled [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► what she thought it was you know into [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► into that matrix [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► but I see it at in trying to make sense [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► in trying to parse our our our current [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► political situation like I hear that [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► same kind of like confidence indignation [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► from people that I disagree with it [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► totally and I'm talking about people [TS]

00:50:27 ◼   ► that think that the that the white race [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► is under attack but the tone and the and [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► the victimhood is like a note for knows [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► coming from the same emotional place and [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► that's why I feel like this is a this is [TS]

00:50:45 ◼   ► a transitional moment right we cannot [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► continue along a path where we each [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► individually become more and more [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► convinced that we are being sailed by at [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► you know by every other group of [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► stakeholders you know that we it's not [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► sustainable [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► it's a it's a moment and eventually [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► people are going to have to start and [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► this is part of I think acknowledging [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► your privilege which is that each [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► individual group is going to have to [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► start acknowledging their own power and [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► acknowledging it in its appropriate [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► context and saying you know like I am [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► NOT a victim I am empowered there are [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► challenges i still feel disenfranchised [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► but that dissing front that but that [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► disenfranchisement I feel in this area [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► is not like a is not a massive [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► conspiracy to disenfranchise me it is [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► simply that I'm encountering people that [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► disagree or that you know that my power [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► is truncated in this way and in that or [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► was historically but actually I do have [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► a lot of power now i am a you know I'm a [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► middle-class university student or I am [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► a you know I'm a successful business [TS]

00:52:02 ◼   ► person or I am i I'm just a blogger but [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► my voice is heard in a way that that in [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► the past [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► no one of my stature could have been [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► heard [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► and-and-and that that's the next level [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► of examining privilege [TS]

00:52:18 ◼   ► well yeah that or acknowledging its not [TS]

00:52:21 ◼   ► just examining it's like it's like [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► nobody I mean acknowledging part is huge [TS]

00:52:25 ◼   ► but I mean that's and I think it's [TS]

00:52:27 ◼   ► actually super instructive it's been [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► really it's been a good tonic for me as [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► much as I push back initially it's been [TS]

00:52:34 ◼   ► a good tonic for me as a human being but [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► i wanna just say one thing here on from [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► admittedly admittedly from a remove [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► because i'm not super involved in this [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► conversation but i think it's been it's [TS]

00:52:46 ◼   ► been very interesting to remove watch [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► the evolution discussion about feminism [TS]

00:52:52 ◼   ► which started out for a long time is [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► mostly white women and their allies and [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► over time there's a different strain [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► that developed of white people black [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► feminism and a very very different [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► strain of latina feminism and a real [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► different approach for that and like do [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► you want to be [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► how is this inclusive is this the angle [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► you know that's just the whole idea that [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► feminism is not some spray on approach [TS]

00:53:16 ◼   ► to quality but it's actually [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► fundamentally different way of thinking [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► about the world an idea that has the [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► biggest people are still getting their [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► head around i remember you know the [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► gender studies class i had college first [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► being presented with that idea at the [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► age of about twenty be pretty blown away [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► because i always thought oh blah pra [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► that's just that's so silly like we know [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► how do we need to do this just that idea [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► that fits that I mean and how I just I [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► I'm very intrigued by that idea that [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► even white women in that instance are [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► going to have to look at a lot of [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► unexamined hot precepts about what they [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► believe and historically have existed a [TS]

00:53:54 ◼   ► certain way in order not simply to [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► accommodate other people but to truly [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► understand that for me to really [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► understand the nature of this thing [TS]

00:54:03 ◼   ► we're mostly my kind of voice of has had [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► privacy it's really important for me to [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► open my idea of what this thing is and [TS]

00:54:11 ◼   ► that means sitting listening to other [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► people who historically have been out [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► there saying i wanted i wanna defend and [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► I want to support whose position i [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► assume i'm taking care of and then they [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► come up and a lot of you know black [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► ladies come up and go you know what [TS]

00:54:24 ◼   ► actually we would do this a real [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► different way [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► Latina ladies come up and say you know [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► what we would do this a real different [TS]

00:54:29 ◼   ► way [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► that's AII that's something where every [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► time i hear about that I'm really [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► intrigued and it's not a snarky way at [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► all [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► it's another way of saying like you know [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► when we talk about if there's anything [TS]

00:54:39 ◼   ► any part of this [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► well the most important part of is a [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► white guys learn to suck it up and [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► realize that we're not the king of [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► everything left side that I really feel [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► that way but the second part of it is [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► what you're describing that's where the [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► guys you need to learn this more than [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► anybody else but it doesn't stop there [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► by any stretch and I think if there's [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► anything that's a little bit damaging [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► and destructive it's to sit on a perch [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► and feel like we finally understood how [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► a situation works it's the softness and [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► openness to understanding how other [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► people have a point of view about these [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► things that that helps these ideas [TS]

00:55:07 ◼   ► become something more than just this [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► this striding political position it [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► becomes a way of what's up as you say [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► about technology it's a way of [TS]

00:55:14 ◼   ► understanding the world in a way that is [TS]

00:55:16 ◼   ► really illuminating yeah and connect can [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► be can be a wonderful thing so I'm not [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► trying to pass off the hole where you go [TS]

00:55:22 ◼   ► prove which 2i got the most boy believe [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► me I i I'm getting that but it is it is [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► intriguing to watch and you know and [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► then to see how that will evolve [TS]

00:55:31 ◼   ► where is it you know it's we think about [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► that d punching up and punching down and [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► you know at what point is interrupting [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► that show not punching up you know what [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► I mean I'm absolutely and I think I [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► think to your point like there is still [TS]

00:55:47 ◼   ► a tremendous energy within white [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► feminists that fails to I mean that's [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► very defensive when confronted by [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► feminists of color right like that like [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► like that is that kind of the tension [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► within feminism is fascinating to watch [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► but like the the approach right in this [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► cultural moment of acknowledging [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► privilege and being and in a way being [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► ashamed of that that first moment of [TS]

00:56:18 ◼   ► like oh my god i didn't know how much [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► privilege i had [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► and I'm ashamed that i was operating in [TS]

00:56:24 ◼   ► the world thinking that I was thinking [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► that I have the same challenges that [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► everybody else did [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► when in fact i had quite a few [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► advantages that it just never occurred [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► to me i had um and that that idea of it [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► of saying wow I have a lot of advantages [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► that I wasn't aware of and that and [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► taking away the the element of of um [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► really of shame about it but also of [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► saying like that i mean each individual [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► person has advantages even out of a [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► cultural context that that we weren't [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► taught to think that any of us really to [TS]

00:57:13 ◼   ► wake up in the morning and count our [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► advantages and and acknowledge like [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► gracefully and with humility that not [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► everybody has those advantages and those [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► aren't limited to advantages of gender [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► or race and that is a very I think up [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► its on the path to a very much more [TS]

00:57:34 ◼   ► spiritual culture at and right now we're [TS]

00:57:38 ◼   ► in a in this moment where a lot of our [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► intellectual capital is being kind of [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► expended both sort of pillorying other [TS]

00:57:51 ◼   ► people for privileged that they aren't [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► acknowledging and ourselves for [TS]

00:57:56 ◼   ► privileged that in a lot of cases we [TS]

00:57:58 ◼   ► having been made aware of it [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► we're now trying to address at all times [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► right or or to the best of our ability [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► but you can't you can't seed power right [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► and you know where you have to you have [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► to take power and that's Machiavelli but [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► it is an untrue right power that's given [TS]

00:58:17 ◼   ► to you by somebody else is power that [TS]

00:58:20 ◼   ► they still hold and if if it's being [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► granted to you it doesn't belong to you [TS]

00:58:27 ◼   ► power is something that he sees and and [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► hold and that's both individually and [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► Colt and you know in cultures but the [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► next step for us all [TS]

00:58:41 ◼   ► i think is to say you know what I mean [TS]

00:58:43 ◼   ► it's we look over at the white [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► Christians and say you guys are you guys [TS]

00:58:49 ◼   ► have all the advantages right you're [TS]

00:58:52 ◼   ► them your ostensibly the majority and [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► all these oil workers down in Louisiana [TS]

00:58:56 ◼   ► who are living on food stamps are like [TS]

00:58:58 ◼   ► what the fuck are you talking about [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► we feel a sale that every at every level [TS]

00:59:03 ◼   ► and part of our part of our [TS]

00:59:07 ◼   ► acknowledgement of our privilege is also [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► to sort of it like acknowledge their [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► lack of it and and that isn't confined [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► right i mean every day now I wake up and [TS]

00:59:20 ◼   ► not only reflect on my own privilege but [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► reflect on the many many ways that every [TS]

00:59:26 ◼   ► person even even the richest guy in [TS]

00:59:29 ◼   ► Seattle wakes up and feels under assault [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► somehow like nobody had a nobody had a [TS]

00:59:35 ◼   ► good day yesterday moving away right and [TS]

00:59:39 ◼   ► we've talked about that quite a bit [TS]

00:59:40 ◼   ► the the fact that bill gates's day [TS]

00:59:45 ◼   ► yesterday was probably pretty hard and [TS]

00:59:48 ◼   ► part of being human part of being a [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► successful human is to accept that and [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► and have sympathy for him to have sex [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► and have sympathy for him to have sex [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► empathy for everybody that you encounter [TS]

01:00:01 ◼   ► and that's why you don't see shitty [TS]

01:00:04 ◼   ► things to people on the internet it's [TS]

01:00:07 ◼   ► why you don't it's why you're not a [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► gamer Gator but it's also important to [TS]

01:00:12 ◼   ► not wake up in a in like a a feeling of [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► of like hyper righteous liberal [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► superiority because everybody's having a [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► bad time but you know there's another [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► part of this state's I that's really [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► complicated i wish i could talk about [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► this at a time other than we just talked [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► about a lot of political and cultural [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► things but there's another part of this [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► which is that they're there is [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► regardless of the side that you're on I [TS]

01:00:37 ◼   ► do feel like there's a very strong [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► culture of telling people what they're [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► doing wrong [TS]

01:00:41 ◼   ► these days to sort of your favorite [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► topic for so long it is really like to [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► say you know what the internet is [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► constantly telling you that you're [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► enjoying life wrong but here's the [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► problem [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► so they're doing the internet wrong yeah [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► but like it's in this i'm trying to make [TS]

01:00:53 ◼   ► a slight bridge to the personal which is [TS]

01:00:55 ◼   ► an impossible bridge to make because the [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► person has become very political [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► so in a if if we could just play along [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► with me for a minute that we have [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► developed into a more gotcha culture of [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► trying to find what somebody's doing [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► wrong [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► the one downside of that is that the [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► stakes for changing have become a lot [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► higher and there is less and less [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► incentive to want to fix something about [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► yourself if it makes it look like you're [TS]

01:01:24 ◼   ► a flip-flopper or being disloyal or your [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► capitulating and and so while I [TS]

01:01:29 ◼   ► understand the need for stridency and [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► lots of things on a personal basis the [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► part that I struggle with is and I you [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► know I'm not trying to tell anybody to [TS]

01:01:36 ◼   ► do it differently [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► I'm just I'm just this is just a [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► personal feeling is that it is it is [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► difficult when you do feel like you're [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► doing what you can in whatever way and [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► it's understandably not always going to [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► be it's never going to be enough for [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► some folks but i guess the thing that [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► I'd love to see it evolve toward is [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► where a conversation about something [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► like privilege goes from being the [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► opportunity where you admit that you're [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► wrong about everything to chance for [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► personal growth and the chance for [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► personal growth requires that you allow [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► yourself to become kind of vulnerable [TS]

01:02:09 ◼   ► even publicly vulnerable and I think the [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► risk to go straight back to talk in [TS]

01:02:14 ◼   ► front of a crowd i think the risk of [TS]

01:02:16 ◼   ► being publicly vulnerable is really [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► tough for a lot of people on every side [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► of every aisle and the more the more [TS]

01:02:24 ◼   ► pitched these things become and the [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► higher the stakes it feels like you are [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► giving a part of yourself away [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► personally by admitting there's anything [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► that you could do better and I i know [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► that that is a second or third stage for [TS]

01:02:39 ◼   ► for a lot of kinds of changing growth to [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► get to that point that there has to be [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► this certain kind of you know nearly [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► violent political confrontation to make [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► things happen but like I'm looking [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► forward to the point where it will be [TS]

01:02:50 ◼   ► okay to admit that you have feelings one [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► way or another and have a conversation [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► about that and that not go straight to [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► the political had that nut goes straight [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► to the like here's the highlight reel of [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► how this person is a garbage person [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► because they changed their mind about [TS]

01:03:05 ◼   ► something on either or any side and as [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► you know as long as it's this difficult [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► to talk about something and have it be [TS]

01:03:12 ◼   ► an idea that you try on like a suit as [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► you like to say as long as that has such [TS]

01:03:18 ◼   ► potential Giants takes to it it's hard [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► for anybody to talk honestly and for [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► anything in any side to go you know what [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► I got that part wrong even if you're the [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► person who's trying to castigate [TS]

01:03:27 ◼   ► somebody on the other side was doing it [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► wrong you know if you were wrong about [TS]

01:03:30 ◼   ► them doing it wrong [TS]

01:03:31 ◼   ► are you gonna admit that you doing that [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► no because you're just as invested in [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► that as the other person has now doubled [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► down on their investment in that thing [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► and that doesn't get us anywhere because [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► that's then that's why this election [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► year is partly why it's so disgusting [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► and hard to watch [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► it's nuts we all just dug in further and [TS]

01:03:50 ◼   ► further and further and nobody's allowed [TS]

01:03:52 ◼   ► to be a little bit broken for a while in [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► the service of becoming fixed the reason [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► i feel that this is a that this is a a [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► momentary space is that in a lot of [TS]

01:04:05 ◼   ► things like this I always sort of asked [TS]

01:04:07 ◼   ► what's the what's your endgame like in [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► calling attention to people's privilege [TS]

01:04:12 ◼   ► what is the end game and I'm talking [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► about you know looking out into the [TS]

01:04:16 ◼   ► future [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► it can operate within a space where if [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► you examine the endgame it is to create [TS]

01:04:28 ◼   ► a world in which there is no privilege [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► like no advantage no group of people has [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► an advantage over any other group of [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► people like that is one potential look [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► at calling out privilege because if we [TS]

01:04:43 ◼   ► call it out we can redress the the [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► systemic institutional ways in which [TS]

01:04:49 ◼   ► certain groups of people are privileged [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► over others but of course you get into a [TS]

01:04:54 ◼   ► you get immediately into a situation [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► where what is it and what way does sort [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► of like talent factor into that right [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► like obviously there are privileges that [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► what we're right now at a place where [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► we're addressing massives privileges of [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► massive scale and event of great [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► historical portent historical portent [TS]

01:05:19 ◼   ► that have created like a massive scale [TS]

01:05:22 ◼   ► of privilege but it's very easy within [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► that overarching like rubric to in on a [TS]

01:05:32 ◼   ► personal level be attacking people for [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► like privileges that are that are much [TS]

01:05:38 ◼   ► more personal [TS]

01:05:39 ◼   ► you know like um for instance of my [TS]

01:05:44 ◼   ► ability to get up on stage and [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► extemporize you can critique that as [TS]

01:05:50 ◼   ► purely the results of the fact that I'm [TS]

01:05:52 ◼   ► a white male but from with from my world [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► of feelings [TS]

01:05:59 ◼   ► it feels like that ability is a talent [TS]

01:06:02 ◼   ► like being able to run a four-minute [TS]

01:06:03 ◼   ► mile I'm gifted with it and it isn't [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► like at anybody that's raised a child [TS]

01:06:10 ◼   ► recognizes that you can do a lot you can [TS]

01:06:13 ◼   ► do a lot of work to try to correct what [TS]

01:06:16 ◼   ► you perceive to be the cultural tell you [TS]

01:06:20 ◼   ► know tentacles that are part of a [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► child's upbringing but you also see that [TS]

01:06:25 ◼   ► a child at six months old already is [TS]

01:06:27 ◼   ► exhibiting personality and talent and [TS]

01:06:30 ◼   ► and [TS]

01:06:31 ◼   ► and predilection that no one had [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► anything to do with right it wasn't [TS]

01:06:36 ◼   ► cultural it was just a mate in them [TS]

01:06:39 ◼   ► operatory and my ability to stand up and [TS]

01:06:43 ◼   ► and confidently take charge of a room [TS]

01:06:46 ◼   ► was the thing that was in me when I was [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► six months old right but it's but I'm [TS]

01:06:51 ◼   ► vulnerable to being critiqued as purely [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► a product of the soul of a social [TS]

01:06:57 ◼   ► construct and for me when I think about [TS]

01:07:04 ◼   ► the conversation about privilege I think [TS]

01:07:08 ◼   ► of a potential endgame being that [TS]

01:07:11 ◼   ► through the different groups of people [TS]

01:07:14 ◼   ► through the different the different [TS]

01:07:17 ◼   ► actors both like macro actors and micro [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► actors we're able to say here are our [TS]

01:07:25 ◼   ► talents here are the things that my [TS]

01:07:27 ◼   ► group is good at here are the here are [TS]

01:07:30 ◼   ► the privileges that we are capable of [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► bringing to bear to collectively solve [TS]

01:07:36 ◼   ► problems better like if there is a group [TS]

01:07:40 ◼   ► of people that is you know that because [TS]

01:07:43 ◼   ► of cultural or economic or a or innate [TS]

01:07:49 ◼   ► like both skills talents and also [TS]

01:07:54 ◼   ► culturally just like yes I'm i was [TS]

01:07:56 ◼   ► raised with a silver spoon in my mouth [TS]

01:07:58 ◼   ► and therefore i have this agency in the [TS]

01:08:00 ◼   ► world i have this ability that [TS]

01:08:03 ◼   ► ultimately the goal is to to learn [TS]

01:08:06 ◼   ► together to not be greedy and to enact [TS]