Roderick on the Line

Ep. 216: "You Could Do Less Magic"


00:00:00   this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:00:02   brought to you by braintree code for [TS]

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00:00:07   visit braintree payments dot-com / [TS]

00:00:10   supertrain [TS]

00:00:11   [Music] [TS]

00:00:17   hello hi John I'm Merlin how's it going [TS]

00:00:21   good it's little early [TS]

00:00:23   yeah yeah you know it is it you know [TS]

00:00:26   actually we're starting early good for [TS]

00:00:27   you [TS]

00:00:28   yeah 3 minutes early ding dong woo hoo [TS]

00:00:33   that's how about the place next door how [TS]

00:00:36   they're like renovating for two months I [TS]

00:00:38   told you about this right yeah you did [TS]

00:00:40   oh my god citizens of banging the way [TS]

00:00:42   out yeah there's some banging also i [TS]

00:00:46   mean it's gonna clear this up because [TS]

00:00:47   there may be some noise i will do my [TS]

00:00:49   usual poor attempt to mute but uh yeah I [TS]

00:00:53   think this play it's a shitshow the the [TS]

00:00:55   Terran stuff i think these guys might be [TS]

00:00:57   a little bit off the books [TS]

00:00:58   mmm the contractors they've got busy [TS]

00:01:02   yeah i mean for example my daughter I'd [TS]

00:01:06   like to walk by and just gonna stick our [TS]

00:01:07   heads in to see what's going on course [TS]

00:01:09   yes so we noticed that they tour of a [TS]

00:01:11   bunch of the floor and there were lots [TS]

00:01:14   of like several inches to a foot deep [TS]

00:01:16   pools of water in the place which [TS]

00:01:18   doesn't seem normal as part of the [TS]

00:01:20   demolition process knowing you it's a [TS]

00:01:22   very sandy soil where you are absolutely [TS]

00:01:24   should be excellent drainage yeah yeah [TS]

00:01:27   you think so and but then we walked by [TS]

00:01:30   and there was a whole bunch of you know [TS]

00:01:33   the orange like heavy duty extension [TS]

00:01:35   cord how the budget that's sitting in a [TS]

00:01:37   pool of water right now listen I'm no [TS]

00:01:40   junior high safety video but just here [TS]

00:01:42   to say I don't know if that's the best [TS]

00:01:44   practicing construction was it plugged [TS]

00:01:46   into anything like just resting my just [TS]

00:01:48   been storing it in the water was like I [TS]

00:01:49   guess it's safe for me that is [TS]

00:01:51   that's actually pretty standard yeah [TS]

00:01:53   pretty standard yet women if you if you [TS]

00:01:56   read the manual actually if you buy an [TS]

00:01:57   extension cord was right on it [TS]

00:01:59   stormwater don't snore at the store in [TS]

00:02:02   standing water storage standing water [TS]

00:02:04   um listen one thing huh [TS]

00:02:08   you know what standing water gets the [TS]

00:02:10   gas face [TS]

00:02:11   yeah boom you know what I i forgot to [TS]

00:02:14   get mine on keyboard all i have right [TS]

00:02:15   now Mikey Porsha get my show you my [TS]

00:02:17   keyboard yeah i don't know i think the [TS]

00:02:19   people like to hear the keyboard because [TS]

00:02:20   they know they know that research being [TS]

00:02:23   done they know that they know the work [TS]

00:02:26   is getting you know what I you know [TS]

00:02:28   let's let's let's let's clear the air [TS]

00:02:30   about this because people right you know [TS]

00:02:33   i do it right in [TS]

00:02:34   they were they right in a sentence [TS]

00:02:35   letters yeah you know and you know [TS]

00:02:38   everybody's got a thought in that that's [TS]

00:02:39   ok but you know if you hear me typing or [TS]

00:02:42   johns talking please don't assume that [TS]

00:02:44   i'm bored assume that it's my job to [TS]

00:02:46   make the show go and have to show things [TS]

00:02:48   and sometimes that requires typing so [TS]

00:02:50   today you're really gonna hear it see [TS]

00:02:51   this i haven't used this one in a while [TS]

00:02:52   but this is what this one sounds like [TS]

00:02:53   the thing that the thing that viewers [TS]

00:02:58   should know is that you know it is you [TS]

00:03:00   cannot on this show who you cannot let [TS]

00:03:03   your guard down for a second all you [TS]

00:03:04   kidding me you know like you couldn't [TS]

00:03:06   get bored and start surfing the internet [TS]

00:03:08   because whoa you might come back into [TS]

00:03:11   the conversation and we're all the way [TS]

00:03:13   out you know we're all the way out [TS]

00:03:16   talking about which dog is which Beatle [TS]

00:03:19   you know like what if you had to do a [TS]

00:03:21   velvet painting of the beatles as dog on [TS]

00:03:23   capturing that who would be what right [TS]

00:03:25   you're gonna and you're going to just be [TS]

00:03:27   like oh sorry i was surfing the web and [TS]

00:03:28   I i didn't get better [TS]

00:03:31   july worry I lose sleep over this [TS]

00:03:33   because i think a lot of people you know [TS]

00:03:35   god bless you I'm glad you're enjoying [TS]

00:03:36   podcast welcome i'm glad but I worry [TS]

00:03:39   sometimes that people get so used to [TS]

00:03:40   listen to these goddamn spoon-fed [TS]

00:03:43   podcasts [TS]

00:03:44   wow you know in a good way like I'm glad [TS]

00:03:46   it's nice relaxing [TS]

00:03:47   sure sure this kind of shows we go like [TS]

00:03:50   hey we're back [TS]

00:03:51   here's the thing we're talking about and [TS]

00:03:52   this is what we're going to talk about [TS]

00:03:53   here you can't do that you can't go get [TS]

00:03:55   a beverage and just hope you're going to [TS]

00:03:57   catch up your mind gold you're leaving [TS]

00:03:59   color in the ground [TS]

00:04:00   I think a lot of the reason that people [TS]

00:04:02   listen to this program over and over [TS]

00:04:04   four sometimes five times all the way [TS]

00:04:06   through the entire series [TS]

00:04:08   who is it the first time I listen to it [TS]

00:04:10   on in their car [TS]

00:04:11   yeah matter like i didn't get all that [TS]

00:04:13   and so the second time I listen to it [TS]

00:04:15   while they were doing the dishes still [TS]

00:04:19   who [TS]

00:04:20   so the third time they sat in their [TS]

00:04:22   living rooms upstairs 3rd time they're [TS]

00:04:23   angry the other angry there staring at [TS]

00:04:25   the speaker now they're not listening to [TS]

00:04:27   internet put it on this the speaker and [TS]

00:04:29   have seen accuracies their lives staring [TS]

00:04:31   at the speaker yeah they realize that [TS]

00:04:34   wasn't enough [TS]

00:04:35   uh-huh but you know the sixth time you [TS]

00:04:37   listen you realize it's really your [TS]

00:04:38   fault as a listener [TS]

00:04:40   well the six-time presumably you have a [TS]

00:04:42   transcript in your hand [TS]

00:04:43   yeah you're listening to the program [TS]

00:04:45   eyes closed in front of a speaker [TS]

00:04:48   Johnny are you checking your email why [TS]

00:04:49   you're doing this no I'm afraid you [TS]

00:04:52   cannot know you gonna sit you're gonna [TS]

00:04:54   sit like a gentleman [TS]

00:04:55   yeah and you're gonna listen you for all [TS]

00:04:57   those notes you took in your Italian [TS]

00:04:58   nope you're gonna realize how much you [TS]

00:04:59   got wrong because you miss things is [TS]

00:05:02   your car is your is your child sitting [TS]

00:05:03   in a car seat babbling some fucking kid [TS]

00:05:06   nonsense to me know now [TS]

00:05:08   no leave it that's right are you sitting [TS]

00:05:11   are you waiting for the light to change [TS]

00:05:12   right all the food there's a lot to get [TS]

00:05:15   i was at a conference this past week who [TS]

00:05:18   you went all the way to the sudden so [TS]

00:05:20   conference [TS]

00:05:20   yeah the wonderful zoso conference uh [TS]

00:05:22   run by wonderful and bees and it was [TS]

00:05:26   there were a lot of podcasters there [TS]

00:05:28   no yeah it's it's lousy with podcast [TS]

00:05:30   lousy with podcast also look at a lot of [TS]

00:05:31   makers there John every single person [TS]

00:05:34   there was a maker who or a creative some [TS]

00:05:37   kind but the and and they're more on [TS]

00:05:41   that I'm gonna circle back to that ok [TS]

00:05:43   but a lot of podcasters and also a lot [TS]

00:05:45   of podcast consumers interesting so in a [TS]

00:05:48   way it was sort of a podcast trade fair [TS]

00:05:51   huh [TS]

00:05:53   there are a lot of booths a you would go [TS]

00:05:56   around and pick up swagg each booth as [TS]

00:05:59   long as they could get your email [TS]

00:06:00   address [TS]

00:06:01   yeah sure no no that's not how it [TS]

00:06:03   happened at all but a lot of people want [TS]

00:06:04   to talk to me first of all I want to [TS]

00:06:05   talk to me about you that [TS]

00:06:07   yeah because they say oh merlin mann is [TS]

00:06:09   it true that and I'm like let me stop [TS]

00:06:12   you right there probably [TS]

00:06:14   well not awkward oh no don't you talk to [TS]

00:06:16   people having children is a Merlin what [TS]

00:06:19   this Merlin mean when he and then I say [TS]

00:06:21   let me stop you right there [TS]

00:06:22   god I have no idea this is this is [TS]

00:06:24   literally my nightmare [TS]

00:06:25   no no it's wonderful there's so many [TS]

00:06:27   Merlin fans out there my god there and [TS]

00:06:29   they're starved for Merlin time and so [TS]

00:06:31   that's what I'm there for [TS]

00:06:33   kind of sort of Merlin problem and then [TS]

00:06:37   but the interesting thing is talking to [TS]

00:06:39   other podcasters about their experience [TS]

00:06:41   podcasting oh you know you know sitting [TS]

00:06:46   around a big table there's a big roast [TS]

00:06:48   on the table but candelabra are burnin [TS]

00:06:52   the wine is flowing the wine is flowing [TS]

00:06:54   someone's playing a lute that is we are [TS]

00:06:57   pretty much just out at nine tyke i [TS]

00:07:02   guess and then everyone has a different [TS]

00:07:04   experience because everyone this is the [TS]

00:07:06   crazy thing about podcasting that a lot [TS]

00:07:08   of people don't know everyone does a [TS]

00:07:10   different kind of podcast everyone does [TS]

00:07:11   a different kind of podcast yeah it's a [TS]

00:07:15   it's a situation where one person's [TS]

00:07:18   podcast seems like it should be [TS]

00:07:21   instructive for another person doing a [TS]

00:07:25   podcast but really every podcast is [TS]

00:07:27   different Merlin oh my god that's [TS]

00:07:29   actually so much like life it's [TS]

00:07:31   strangely like life where people like to [TS]

00:07:33   give advice because they went through [TS]

00:07:35   the mouse maze in this given way and [TS]

00:07:37   they found cheese and didn't die so that [TS]

00:07:39   pretty sure that you write a book about [TS]

00:07:40   it well and what what and who moved my [TS]

00:07:43   cheese right became a national and [TS]

00:07:45   international bestseller who my feeling [TS]

00:07:49   about it was a lot of what people want [TS]

00:07:51   to talk about is podcasting was how does [TS]

00:07:56   one make a living podcast well and you [TS]

00:07:59   know what I wanted to talk about is why [TS]

00:08:03   is podcasting such an illegitimate art [TS]

00:08:07   form because it really is up to him to [TS]

00:08:12   me okay [TS]

00:08:13   oh you know what I saw many notes i just [TS]

00:08:15   want to say in passing us I mean it [TS]

00:08:17   sounds like you did talk to a lot of [TS]

00:08:18   people like and you tell me the just [TS]

00:08:21   that I got people have many quotes from [TS]

00:08:22   you on the twitter which is an online [TS]

00:08:24   service and you [TS]

00:08:26   it sounds like you were talking about [TS]

00:08:27   you pushed back against the idea of [TS]

00:08:30   doing this because it was too felt too [TS]

00:08:32   easy that was a fair this is ultimately [TS]

00:08:35   the big question right I as I was / as i [TS]

00:08:38   was preparing to go onstage it as in all [TS]

00:08:42   cases when you go on stage it never [TS]

00:08:44   turns out the way you planned it [TS]

00:08:47   one of the things i was thinking about [TS]

00:08:48   quite a bit was that extemporaneous [TS]

00:08:50   performance comes very naturally to me [TS]

00:08:54   for a lot of people it's it's it's very [TS]

00:08:57   hard right they don't want to get you [TS]

00:09:00   know it's like everybody's nightmare [TS]

00:09:01   right you're pushed out onstage with and [TS]

00:09:03   you have no and you're not prepared they [TS]

00:09:05   say they say animals has been updated [TS]

00:09:06   recently but it's been said as [TS]

00:09:08   conventional wisdom for a long time that [TS]

00:09:10   American second greatest fears death and [TS]

00:09:12   their first greatest fear is public [TS]

00:09:13   speaking [TS]

00:09:14   add to that whether or not that's [TS]

00:09:15   exactly true or accurate [TS]

00:09:18   add to that going out and winning it [TS]

00:09:20   going on that that's the stuff of [TS]

00:09:22   nightmares for a lot right but i think [TS]

00:09:23   it really is right you push out there [TS]

00:09:25   and and it's and your and the lights [TS]

00:09:27   come on and it's a big room full of [TS]

00:09:28   people you don't know what you're there [TS]

00:09:29   to do and watching people at this [TS]

00:09:31   conference to get up and give speeches [TS]

00:09:34   it was obvious that a lot of lot of the [TS]

00:09:37   speaker's even though they were they [TS]

00:09:39   were professionally very accomplished [TS]

00:09:41   everyone was very interested in what [TS]

00:09:42   they had to say they were full of [TS]

00:09:44   anxiety just about the performance of [TS]

00:09:47   their talk like I have to go out and [TS]

00:09:50   talk for 20 minutes in front of people [TS]

00:09:51   and so they have a PowerPoint and they [TS]

00:09:54   they have their script and their script [TS]

00:09:56   is is scrolling at their feet on a [TS]

00:09:59   television set and when I was watching [TS]

00:10:01   for backstage a lot of times you know [TS]

00:10:04   the speaker's very naturalistic but [TS]

00:10:06   there it's word-for-word kind of their [TS]

00:10:08   prepared text and so part of what i [TS]

00:10:13   wanted to talk about was look I'm [TS]

00:10:15   walking out here i have no I'm i have [TS]

00:10:17   really done very little preparation [TS]

00:10:20   about what I'm going to say [TS]

00:10:21   and honestly if if if I looked over to [TS]

00:10:25   the side of the stage after my 20 [TS]

00:10:27   minutes was done and there was somebody [TS]

00:10:28   holding a sign that said can you stretch [TS]

00:10:31   it for another hour [TS]

00:10:32   I'd be like great like this kind of [TS]

00:10:36   thing it's not like you're like you're [TS]

00:10:38   playing at the opening of them all right [TS]

00:10:41   there there's nobody is nobody's [TS]

00:10:44   repelling behind [TS]

00:10:45   stretch shirt still a visit at isn't [TS]

00:10:49   propelling well i'm playing with no [TS]

00:10:50   monitors at 7am in front of the mall now [TS]

00:10:53   this is just me talking to you about [TS]

00:10:55   stuff and I could do it for hours but [TS]

00:10:58   the but somehow the fact that it is [TS]

00:11:01   everyone's greatest fear and and for [TS]

00:11:05   most people very difficult to do doesn't [TS]

00:11:08   impart any sense that doing it is like a [TS]

00:11:18   technical skill that should be reward [TS]

00:11:22   should be rewarded cook commensurate [TS]

00:11:25   with its difficulty right like if you if [TS]

00:11:29   you are a mathematician everybody [TS]

00:11:31   recognizes that that's very difficult [TS]

00:11:33   they don't know how to do it and they [TS]

00:11:35   say this is something that that you [TS]

00:11:38   should be either rewarded for with pay [TS]

00:11:41   or with stature if you can run a [TS]

00:11:47   four-minute mile you know you get a [TS]

00:11:50   medal or everybody applauds but there's [TS]

00:11:52   a sense of if you can get up and wing it [TS]

00:11:55   that you're getting away with murder [TS]

00:11:59   somehow you know everyone's reactions [TS]

00:12:01   are like Oh mm um you didn't try very [TS]

00:12:05   hard or you know there's a there's this [TS]

00:12:08   feeling or men and maybe it's just me [TS]

00:12:10   maybe I'm just the one carrying this but [TS]

00:12:13   that somehow the person that slaved for [TS]

00:12:16   weeks over the powerpoint demonstration [TS]

00:12:19   in order that they control their anxiety [TS]

00:12:22   enough to give a kind of stilted [TS]

00:12:24   performance has done more work and [TS]

00:12:27   therefore their performances more valid [TS]

00:12:30   than the person who can get up and given [TS]

00:12:35   an entertaining talk without notes and [TS]

00:12:40   this was a this was this is something [TS]

00:12:41   that's always kind of been my I'm always [TS]

00:12:43   wrestling with this right because the [TS]

00:12:46   the most fun I have is doing this [TS]

00:12:48   podcast in some ways it's something I'm [TS]

00:12:51   very very proud of or maybe even the [TS]

00:12:53   most proud of but we you and I just get [TS]

00:12:57   on here and wing it every week and so it [TS]

00:13:00   also feels a little illegitimate like [TS]

00:13:02   cheating [TS]

00:13:03   yeah that this be our that this be [TS]

00:13:06   something were rewarded for that this [TS]

00:13:08   b.i.g even considered a job over because [TS]

00:13:12   it's just like a two guys jacking off [TS]

00:13:13   whoa [TS]

00:13:15   and it's it's it's it's a skill set [TS]

00:13:18   it'sit's just as difficult as as being a [TS]

00:13:22   good painter or something but it seems [TS]

00:13:24   it seems like i don't know somehow [TS]

00:13:29   invalid who and I wanted to talk about [TS]

00:13:32   that but then when I got on stage I just [TS]

00:13:34   made like 40 minutes of Portland jokes [TS]

00:13:36   and then drop trial flip the audience [TS]

00:13:38   off went and then standing out classic [TS]

00:13:44   Roderick you know what I mean because [TS]

00:13:45   that's my brand you know and that's what [TS]

00:13:48   people come and that's what they expect [TS]

00:13:49   when you look nice today was there we [TS]

00:13:51   actually mostly at well at adams request [TS]

00:13:56   we swore that we would make poop jokes [TS]

00:13:59   huh and it's got requests we swore that [TS]

00:14:01   we would make Portland jokes and then we [TS]

00:14:03   went out there and i did about 40 [TS]

00:14:04   minutes of Portland poop jokes [TS]

00:14:06   yeah it was all put Portland all poop [TS]

00:14:08   you can't help yourself yeah i'll put a [TS]

00:14:09   little bit yeah yeah um so I don't know [TS]

00:14:13   you know I I thought I got thoughts [TS]

00:14:15   yeah I look at people better you know [TS]

00:14:17   really really really really put a lot of [TS]

00:14:20   effort into doing these things that are [TS]

00:14:22   sort of that are second nature to me and [TS]

00:14:28   obviously like I would have to put a lot [TS]

00:14:30   of effort into doing something you know [TS]

00:14:33   work right [TS]

00:14:35   that's what's really hard for me to do [TS]

00:14:37   your very food [TS]

00:14:39   this came up on the very special relayed [TS]

00:14:42   FM members-only edition of reconcile [TS]

00:14:46   differences on what you were kind enough [TS]

00:14:48   to guests that came up at the end where [TS]

00:14:50   you're saying you wish you were you wish [TS]

00:14:51   you were more than a jack-of-all-trades [TS]

00:14:52   you wish you are really good at [TS]

00:14:54   something and our friend John syracuse [TS]

00:14:55   it took me to task on this thing you're [TS]

00:14:56   a professional musician like yeah you [TS]

00:14:58   you get paid you get to do stuff or not [TS]

00:15:01   get to do stuff I know to what do you [TS]

00:15:04   mean again [TS]

00:15:05   and then it's gonna be its own reward [TS]

00:15:07   man everybody's trying to steal your [TS]

00:15:10   copper pipe but the but yeah I think he [TS]

00:15:13   made an interesting point which is that [TS]

00:15:14   he ran okay let me try something up this [TS]

00:15:16   way I think that so I I want to talk [TS]

00:15:19   more about a bunch of details that are [TS]

00:15:21   wrapped up in what you're saying that [TS]

00:15:23   have to do with things like how you feel [TS]

00:15:25   about the audience is feeling about you [TS]

00:15:28   what are the stakes for it going wrong [TS]

00:15:30   because i think that greatly changes the [TS]

00:15:32   equation for a lot of people but set [TS]

00:15:33   that aside for a minute I think anything [TS]

00:15:36   that doesn't feel impossibly difficult [TS]

00:15:38   to US doesn't feel like work and I think [TS]

00:15:40   that's a problem and i'm not talking [TS]

00:15:42   about anything here and I I this is a [TS]

00:15:44   very back to work is kind of point to [TS]

00:15:45   make but i think a lot of us are [TS]

00:15:47   suspicious of things that aren't where [TS]

00:15:50   we have like I don't know if it's sunk [TS]

00:15:52   cost fallacy or something but where if [TS]

00:15:54   we put a bunch of effort time education [TS]

00:15:56   and resources into one part of our life [TS]

00:15:58   and that's not the part that is our job [TS]

00:16:01   we feel like we're it work with feel [TS]

00:16:05   like we're being not just not just that [TS]

00:16:07   were getting away with something but [TS]

00:16:08   that we're like almost we're being [TS]

00:16:12   disloyal to the time that we spend in [TS]

00:16:15   the past and I think that sometimes [TS]

00:16:16   that's great because it can make you [TS]

00:16:18   want to stick with it and try harder and [TS]

00:16:20   you know thrive but other times it [TS]

00:16:24   really works across purposes because [TS]

00:16:25   it's not just that it's easy but if it's [TS]

00:16:27   something that feels good to do I think [TS]

00:16:29   people are suspicious of it and that's a [TS]

00:16:31   very privileged thing to say because [TS]

00:16:32   we're really we're really fortunate a [TS]

00:16:34   lot of ways to get to do what we're [TS]

00:16:35   doing but I think that's true for almost [TS]

00:16:37   everybody were like if you feel like [TS]

00:16:39   there's this some some part of us and [TS]

00:16:41   I'm I'm from the Midwest your mantra [TS]

00:16:43   Ohio your mom is from Ohio [TS]

00:16:44   I think there is a certain kind of I [TS]

00:16:48   don't know if it's Puritan but there's a [TS]

00:16:49   certain kind of Midwestern feeling that [TS]

00:16:51   if you're happy you're probably doing [TS]

00:16:53   something wrong [TS]

00:16:54   yeah i think it's i think it's quicker [TS]

00:16:56   but but yeah i agree if you're happy you [TS]

00:17:01   must be doing something wrong [TS]

00:17:02   that's I mean that's reductive and I'm [TS]

00:17:04   trying to make this about more than just [TS]

00:17:05   this podcast but yeah get the other [TS]

00:17:07   thing just just just to circle back that [TS]

00:17:09   one thing was on and we'll get back to [TS]

00:17:11   beatles dogs i hope but in that case [TS]

00:17:13   think about this though you're going in [TS]

00:17:16   front of a bunch of people wear well [TS]

00:17:18   let's put it this way [TS]

00:17:19   were you worried worried worried that [TS]

00:17:23   the audience would not be receptive to [TS]

00:17:25   what you had to say what were you [TS]

00:17:26   concerned really like losing sleep over [TS]

00:17:28   like whether people would be going into [TS]

00:17:31   this with a negative feeling about you [TS]

00:17:33   pretty loaded for bear or conversely [TS]

00:17:35   like were you worried that you had to [TS]

00:17:37   make a certain case to that particular [TS]

00:17:38   audience and did that cause you stress [TS]

00:17:40   before the talk I mean there's a little [TS]

00:17:43   bit of stress now involved in getting up [TS]

00:17:48   and giving speeches just because the [TS]

00:17:53   because the atmosphere around [TS]

00:17:55   mansplaining particularly middle-aged [TS]

00:18:00   white men explaining middle mansplaining [TS]

00:18:04   is so fraught right that there's there [TS]

00:18:08   are camps in which my presence at an [TS]

00:18:12   event is already suspect already [TS]

00:18:17   problematic and so you know standing up [TS]

00:18:21   on stage in front of people and being my [TS]

00:18:23   natural self and saying hello everyone [TS]

00:18:26   I'm a big middle-aged white guy didn't [TS]

00:18:29   suck a bag of different things to say [TS]

00:18:31   about stuff [TS]

00:18:32   nice to meet you I've got ideas about [TS]

00:18:34   things [TS]

00:18:35   there's there is now a you know like an [TS]

00:18:40   inhibition that that there will be [TS]

00:18:43   people in the audience primed to be at [TS]

00:18:50   to be looking for a problem or or you [TS]

00:18:53   know and they're one end and at the last [TS]

00:18:56   at this XOXO there was up there was a [TS]

00:19:00   person who to me very clearly came [TS]

00:19:06   already angry and found a way to fit [TS]

00:19:11   like and tweeted halfway through my [TS]

00:19:13   presentation about my unexamined [TS]

00:19:16   privilege halfway through a presentation [TS]

00:19:18   that you know she she did not bother 22 [TS]

00:19:23   and she didn't tweet at the end right so [TS]

00:19:25   maybe by the end she had [TS]

00:19:28   she had heard things in the second half [TS]

00:19:30   of the presentation that made her [TS]

00:19:32   realize that the first half of the [TS]

00:19:34   presentation was set up and then the you [TS]

00:19:38   know the message of the second half [TS]

00:19:39   relieves the tension of the first half [TS]

00:19:42   it's a big part of performance so [TS]

00:19:45   halfway through she's already tweeting [TS]

00:19:46   about my own examine privilege and my [TS]

00:19:49   feeling is that she came into the [TS]

00:19:50   conference either having already [TS]

00:19:53   underlined by name as a person that she [TS]

00:19:56   was going to you know was going to do a [TS]

00:19:59   up a critique of on these on this topic [TS]

00:20:03   right i mean she was she was already mad [TS]

00:20:06   that i was there and then up and then [TS]

00:20:09   someone can Fred I think it's the same [TS]

00:20:11   woman confronted me later in the middle [TS]

00:20:14   of a in like got up and came over and [TS]

00:20:16   yelled at me in the audience because I [TS]

00:20:19   got up to [TS]

00:20:20   i got up at the end of someone else's [TS]

00:20:22   presentation did a little bit of a Kanye [TS]

00:20:24   like Taylor I'm gonna let you finish but [TS]

00:20:28   I just have an anecdote here that'll and [TS]

00:20:30   you know again I'm a performer was it [TS]

00:20:33   was someone you know [TS]

00:20:34   no no I mean that the person you're [TS]

00:20:35   conning know uh but they are fellow [TS]

00:20:39   performer and I'm there as a paper [TS]

00:20:42   former and my job is to perform and I [TS]

00:20:45   know what to provide oh what a good [TS]

00:20:46   performances right I'm not I know I'm [TS]

00:20:50   not stepping on anybody it was a had an [TS]

00:20:52   anecdote it was apropos it everybody [TS]

00:20:56   liked it but this person same person i [TS]

00:20:58   think you know came over and gave me a [TS]

00:21:02   in a in an exaggerated stage whisper [TS]

00:21:05   which seemed to be trying to draw [TS]

00:21:07   attention to herself [TS]

00:21:09   they gave me a lecture about how I how [TS]

00:21:12   rude i had been in you know in standing [TS]

00:21:16   up and making a comment to the room and [TS]

00:21:19   she was entirely incorrect and again [TS]

00:21:25   felt like she came into the event loaded [TS]

00:21:27   for bear looking for a reason you know [TS]

00:21:30   so there is a certain amount of that [TS]

00:21:32   when I'm preparing to give a talk at [TS]

00:21:35   XOXO for instance where I'm like you [TS]

00:21:38   know is there going to be something in [TS]

00:21:40   my eye you know I know there's not gonna [TS]

00:21:43   be anything in my presentation but is [TS]

00:21:45   there just something in my main you know [TS]

00:21:48   something in just my in my person that [TS]

00:21:53   someone in the audience is going to find [TS]

00:21:55   it is going to trigger something is [TS]

00:21:58   going to trigger someone else just in [TS]

00:22:00   the way that i carry myself in the sharp [TS]

00:22:02   my voice in my casualness in the fat in [TS]

00:22:05   the very fact that i am comfortable [TS]

00:22:07   standing up in front of a room that [TS]

00:22:09   alone is evidence of my status as a [TS]

00:22:15   white male in a patriarchal culture and [TS]

00:22:18   so my comfort is a priori on offense and [TS]

00:22:25   reflecting on my comfort in anything [TS]

00:22:28   other than an apologetic tone for its [TS]

00:22:32   very existence is an offense so but I [TS]

00:22:36   don't have any question about my ability [TS]

00:22:39   to extemporaneously entertain an [TS]

00:22:42   audience or to begin a story take it [TS]

00:22:46   through a through a journey down a set [TS]

00:22:48   of Rapids and at the end of the story [TS]

00:22:52   you know have it have performed an arc [TS]

00:22:56   and and at the end there's some some [TS]

00:22:59   resolution and it feels like a complete [TS]

00:23:01   complete work and it's like a play with [TS]

00:23:04   acts so I know how to do that and I [TS]

00:23:06   don't either i'm not up in the middle of [TS]

00:23:08   the night going i hope that I don't get [TS]

00:23:10   halfway through and and blank or I hope [TS]

00:23:14   you know that the audit that I'm not up [TS]

00:23:16   there dying you know that stuff doesn't [TS]

00:23:19   really worry I've died a thousand deaths [TS]

00:23:21   in front of a crowd and it's that it [TS]

00:23:24   doesn't i'm not scared of right if i'm [TS]

00:23:27   laying jokes out there and the and the [TS]

00:23:29   laughter is tepid and it and it feels [TS]

00:23:33   like boy I really lost this audience a [TS]

00:23:35   long time ago i still can get them back [TS]

00:23:39   you get him back just by saying boy lost [TS]

00:23:41   you guys a long time ago and my little [TS]

00:23:44   family and conversely [TS]

00:23:46   pandering to what you perceive to be [TS]

00:23:50   some part of the audience that I'm gonna [TS]

00:23:54   put this pandering to there's no way to [TS]

00:23:57   inoculate yourself is the way I would [TS]

00:23:58   put it is that you know I think [TS]

00:24:00   sometimes when I'm talking to people who [TS]

00:24:02   are thinking about doing a thing [TS]

00:24:04   whatever that thing is one of the things [TS]

00:24:07   I feel like I've learned it's never easy [TS]

00:24:09   but you have to just accept that there [TS]

00:24:13   are always going to be people who just [TS]

00:24:15   don't like you and they don't like what [TS]

00:24:18   this is very very simple but this is the [TS]

00:24:20   kind of thing where I think people need [TS]

00:24:22   to hear this i know i need to hear this [TS]

00:24:23   is that sometimes there are going to be [TS]

00:24:25   people who just like on your very best [TS]

00:24:27   day the best that you're capable of [TS]

00:24:29   they still just basically don't like you [TS]

00:24:31   it doesn't make him a bad person it [TS]

00:24:32   doesn't make them prejudice [TS]

00:24:34   I'm that way about some people there's [TS]

00:24:35   just some people like you know guy fieri [TS]

00:24:37   gonna tell you like his persona bugs me [TS]

00:24:39   but he seems like a genuinely nice guy [TS]

00:24:40   but I don't like his persona I would not [TS]

00:24:43   seek out his programming and that's why [TS]

00:24:45   sometimes gets to be a joke on here but [TS]

00:24:47   along trying to say is that like what [TS]

00:24:49   you what you can't do is you don't cut [TS]

00:24:52   muscle on the parts of your personality [TS]

00:24:55   or your performance style that are that [TS]

00:24:59   are a big part of who you are and what [TS]

00:25:01   you do like sometimes you know I'm not [TS]

00:25:03   the biggest fan of magic tricks and [TS]

00:25:05   illusions but I would never want to go [TS]

00:25:07   to a show where the person onstage [TS]

00:25:08   decides they're gonna do less magic in [TS]

00:25:10   order to make me happy because that's [TS]

00:25:12   not what the show is about but that said [TS]

00:25:14   I want to circle back to this later when [TS]

00:25:15   you're done but the this is this is the [TS]

00:25:17   thing that's different though is you [TS]

00:25:19   know I i think a big part of your one's [TS]

00:25:21   confidence going on stages at the very [TS]

00:25:24   least like if this thing goes totally [TS]

00:25:26   wrong if it goes terrible if I feel [TS]

00:25:28   misunderstood if I say something dumb in [TS]

00:25:30   a way I didn't mean to say like what are [TS]

00:25:32   the stakes and I think that feeling of [TS]

00:25:34   steaks is a big part of what makes [TS]

00:25:37   people very reluctant to do anything in [TS]

00:25:39   front of other people and it's also what [TS]

00:25:41   causes people to not just prepare but to [TS]

00:25:43   maybe over-prepare until they eventually [TS]

00:25:45   squeeze every bit of personality and the [TS]

00:25:48   potential for the human soul of what [TS]

00:25:49   they're doing [TS]

00:25:50   I'm not going to criticize that like if [TS]

00:25:52   you're at apple and you are in a group [TS]

00:25:55   whose I don't know whatever the [TS]

00:25:58   definition of not a successful group it [TS]

00:26:00   up [TS]

00:26:00   this and you have to get up in front of [TS]

00:26:01   a bunch of people who are used to [TS]

00:26:02   fantastic presentations about successful [TS]

00:26:04   products and you've got to be the one [TS]

00:26:06   who goes up in your pack your PowerPoint [TS]

00:26:08   deck goes wrong and you have to report [TS]

00:26:09   that results I'd be nervous about that [TS]

00:26:11   too [TS]

00:26:12   it's nice to be in a place where you [TS]

00:26:13   feel like I can be the person I want to [TS]

00:26:15   be in front of these people with the [TS]

00:26:17   level of preparation i think is [TS]

00:26:18   appropriate and do what I think is best [TS]

00:26:20   to put on a good show and you're a [TS]

00:26:21   performer that's like--that's what they [TS]

00:26:22   bring you in for [TS]

00:26:24   but i think the challenge is and and you [TS]

00:26:26   know and and XOXO is a is a place where [TS]

00:26:30   the where that the temperatures turned [TS]

00:26:34   up a little bit on this which is that at [TS]

00:26:37   XOXO me talking to this group of people [TS]

00:26:41   that are largely my peers the stakes are [TS]

00:26:46   one thing but because it's going on the [TS]

00:26:50   internet and because it's never a [TS]

00:26:54   hundred percent clear what the what the [TS]

00:26:57   of the moment issue is now it's possible [TS]

00:27:03   that you could because we see it all the [TS]

00:27:04   time someone gets up and gives what they [TS]

00:27:06   think is in a an innocent or innocuous [TS]

00:27:10   presentation that they are expecting is [TS]

00:27:14   going to be received one way or or could [TS]

00:27:16   we also stipulate it's it's something [TS]

00:27:18   where you maybe even took pains to have [TS]

00:27:21   it not be something that's broadly [TS]

00:27:24   offensive maybe then you maybe you think [TS]

00:27:26   you're saying something from maybe even [TS]

00:27:27   a vulnerable point about yourself that [TS]

00:27:30   you don't you know you're absolutely not [TS]

00:27:32   there to hurt anybody's feelings or to [TS]

00:27:34   exercise privilege right i mean isn't [TS]

00:27:36   that part of it is like even if you feel [TS]

00:27:37   like you've prepared for that you still [TS]

00:27:39   can't really be prepared for that you [TS]

00:27:40   cannot because I mean I think you can [TS]

00:27:43   buy doing exactly what you just said [TS]

00:27:46   which is just sort of do less magic but [TS]

00:27:49   if you are trying to if you're trying to [TS]

00:27:52   do something original and unusual and do [TS]

00:27:55   something in within your character that [TS]

00:27:57   where you're you are pushing boundaries [TS]

00:27:59   which is a thing that we always [TS]

00:28:00   particularly as artists you need to push [TS]

00:28:03   boundaries that is that is the game [TS]

00:28:06   that's how we advance the whole story [TS]

00:28:10   the human story push boundaries [TS]

00:28:12   but but you get into a posture where [TS]

00:28:15   we're bound Ruiz are thought of as a [TS]

00:28:19   different thing or or respecting [TS]

00:28:21   boundaries is also a like a prime [TS]

00:28:24   directive and how to push boundaries and [TS]

00:28:27   respect boundaries at the same time I [TS]

00:28:29   mean every person is trying to do it in [TS]

00:28:31   a different way but you can never know [TS]

00:28:34   is whether your offhand comment your [TS]

00:28:37   awkward attempt to recover from a joke [TS]

00:28:40   you're um you know you're panicked [TS]

00:28:43   response to a ejaculation from the crowd [TS]

00:28:47   that caught you off guard that you [TS]

00:28:49   didn't expect whether that is going to [TS]

00:28:51   be looped and put into the world and [TS]

00:28:54   you're going to be the next one that's [TS]

00:28:57   pilloried and that's the thing you just [TS]

00:28:59   can't all you can do now is trust that [TS]

00:29:03   all the years that you've spent on the [TS]

00:29:05   balance beam learning how to do [TS]

00:29:07   gymnastics is going to save you in that [TS]

00:29:11   moment but i see i see people take the [TS]

00:29:13   stage and that their panic is not just [TS]

00:29:17   like what if you know what [TS]

00:29:19   what if i walk out onstage and I look [TS]

00:29:21   down and I'm not wearing any clothes but [TS]

00:29:23   it's also like what if i get out there [TS]

00:29:25   and in the middle of a thing that's [TS]

00:29:26   going great i say the wrong thing either [TS]

00:29:32   because it's written in my speech and I [TS]

00:29:35   didn't realize that it's that the word I [TS]

00:29:37   choses is a word that two days ago [TS]

00:29:40   became incredibly fraught or because [TS]

00:29:45   somebody in the crowd goes that's not [TS]

00:29:48   funny and I reply to them just in the [TS]

00:29:54   spirit of the moment and that you know [TS]

00:29:57   and the and that becomes a thing that [TS]

00:29:59   even if it worked in the room you know [TS]

00:30:02   what I mean like even if everybody at [TS]

00:30:03   the place gets it and goes yeah but it [TS]

00:30:07   changes it changes the temperature [TS]

00:30:09   well but but if the one person in the [TS]

00:30:13   room that as you described earlier who [TS]

00:30:14   just isn't going to like you no matter [TS]

00:30:16   what your their guy fieri if that person [TS]

00:30:19   is is built or came with a plan [TS]

00:30:24   and his tape recording you and put it [TS]

00:30:26   online and either in context or out and [TS]

00:30:31   says look at this [TS]

00:30:32   I mean a lot of times you can put [TS]

00:30:34   somebody's comments completely in [TS]

00:30:35   context it's not always a question of of [TS]

00:30:37   d contextualizing you put a completely [TS]

00:30:40   in context but if you put if you put a [TS]

00:30:43   like a scroll underneath that says [TS]

00:30:46   everything you know everything that's [TS]

00:30:48   being said here is offensive [TS]

00:30:50   you can call you can you can take the [TS]

00:30:54   context you can change the context just [TS]

00:30:56   by captioning [TS]

00:30:59   oh yeah bye-bye hang a lantern on am [TS]

00:31:01   yeah right so it's like if I was [TS]

00:31:03   watching this video without any [TS]

00:31:05   background music I would feel like this [TS]

00:31:08   was an interesting scene but all of a [TS]

00:31:10   sudden there's there's background music [TS]

00:31:13   flown in the form of critical context or [TS]

00:31:16   or it you know just like here the [TS]

00:31:19   strings are getting all tense now and [TS]

00:31:22   all the sudden these words have a all [TS]

00:31:26   the sudden these words are now either [TS]

00:31:27   offensive or have a different meaning [TS]

00:31:29   so so yeah the stakes the potential [TS]

00:31:34   stakes have changed for every kind of [TS]

00:31:37   one of these things and I'm not worried [TS]

00:31:42   about it at in my core you know because [TS]

00:31:47   because there's a very real risk and I [TS]

00:31:51   you know I felt it just between you and [TS]

00:31:53   me and and sort of with everybody in our [TS]

00:31:55   in our peer group specifically of white [TS]

00:31:59   middle-aged guys making things that we [TS]

00:32:02   all recognize that at some point or [TS]

00:32:05   another we may be up on the cross [TS]

00:32:10   it's it's part of the it's just part of [TS]

00:32:15   the new reality and lots of people have [TS]

00:32:18   spent a lot of time up on the cross in [TS]

00:32:21   the past and Israeli s though not [TS]

00:32:25   necessarily I mean Jesus was a [TS]

00:32:27   middle-aged white guy he's the first one [TS]

00:32:30   is middle-aged for his time I think yeah [TS]

00:32:31   yeah right because people don't live to [TS]

00:32:33   be 60 although i heard that that was [TS]

00:32:35   that's recently dispel turns out [TS]

00:32:37   but you know what I'm saying like you [TS]

00:32:39   think I do i mean i-i I boy I got mixed [TS]

00:32:45   super mixed not feelings just thoughts [TS]

00:32:48   about about a lot of this stuff i mean [TS]

00:32:50   one thing to keep in mind is that I try [TS]

00:32:53   to keep I'm not trying to school you but [TS]

00:32:54   one thing I try to keep in mind is that [TS]

00:32:56   we one thing that makes a potentially [TS]

00:33:00   makes our American experiment good is [TS]

00:33:04   that there are people that will always [TS]

00:33:05   be opposed to each other and that's okay [TS]

00:33:07   i mean this gets a little bit to the [TS]

00:33:09   whole you know we can all agree on [TS]

00:33:10   cheese thing where we feel this need to [TS]

00:33:12   find something in common when well you [TS]

00:33:14   know if we are antithetical e opposed to [TS]

00:33:16   this one's to a certain given point like [TS]

00:33:19   we have to accept that that's that's [TS]

00:33:20   part of the conversation and that maybe [TS]

00:33:23   we maybe neither one of us should say [TS]

00:33:25   things we don't think are true in order [TS]

00:33:26   to look like we're being collegio that's [TS]

00:33:30   that's a big part of it the any other [TS]

00:33:32   part of it is that there's i'm looking [TS]

00:33:34   at the wikipedia page for a term i [TS]

00:33:37   learned in this election cycle oppo [TS]

00:33:39   which is short for opposition research [TS]

00:33:41   and it's the kind of dossiers that get [TS]

00:33:43   compiled on people it's you know along [TS]

00:33:45   the lines of like somebody following a [TS]

00:33:46   candidate around with a camera recording [TS]

00:33:48   every single thing they say and then you [TS]

00:33:50   know being able to go in and highlight [TS]

00:33:51   you know for certain [TS]

00:33:53   yeah i mean but the thing is that's [TS]

00:33:54   that's I mean I guess the thing is [TS]

00:33:57   though like is that bad is that bad that [TS]

00:33:59   there are people who just don't like us [TS]

00:34:01   or don't like a given person for four [TS]

00:34:03   reasons to the cultural could be [TS]

00:34:05   political [TS]

00:34:06   I mean sometimes that means racism but a [TS]

00:34:08   lot of time it doesn't it just means [TS]

00:34:10   that's just that's just not for me or [TS]

00:34:12   the way that this person presents is [TS]

00:34:13   antithetical to the stuff that I believe [TS]

00:34:15   in is that means either one of us has to [TS]

00:34:17   change [TS]

00:34:18   not necessarily I don't think I mean I'm [TS]

00:34:22   not trying to say i'm not trying to say [TS]

00:34:24   put the KKK up at XOXO that's a lot of [TS]

00:34:26   letters but i'm trying to say i like [TS]

00:34:28   that's part of being a grown-up is just [TS]

00:34:30   realizing that like you should your this [TS]

00:34:32   is not seventh grade you guys don't [TS]

00:34:34   change your personality to please [TS]

00:34:37   whoever happens to be in the room or [TS]

00:34:38   you're never going to become an actual [TS]

00:34:39   person i think that the I think that [TS]

00:34:43   we're in a state and I was thinking [TS]

00:34:45   about this the other day we used to live [TS]

00:34:49   in a world in which the media ostensibly [TS]

00:34:53   tried to be nonpartisan independent [TS]

00:34:56   tried to be fair and balanced and [TS]

00:35:02   there's a ton of media critique that you [TS]

00:35:08   know over the years explain to us like [TS]

00:35:10   the media was not fair and balanced the [TS]

00:35:12   video was operating you know that i'm [TS]

00:35:15   talking mainstream media in a in a [TS]

00:35:18   closed system but he just in in older [TS]

00:35:21   times just called the press the press [TS]

00:35:23   right like the people who were for [TS]

00:35:25   example not reporting on you know [TS]

00:35:27   results health state sure or Kennedy's [TS]

00:35:31   Addison's disease yeah but with the [TS]

00:35:36   presumption I think of a world kind of [TS]

00:35:39   close to the one we're living in now [TS]

00:35:40   where there's a lot more access the B we [TS]

00:35:45   can see more deeply you could not you [TS]

00:35:48   could not hide Kennedy's Addison's [TS]

00:35:50   disease now right because they're just [TS]

00:35:52   there are a lot of people that aren't [TS]

00:35:54   part of the the tiny little club anymore [TS]

00:35:57   that lets see that is newsworthy and our [TS]

00:36:00   and it would be capable of reporting but [TS]

00:36:03   what I don't think we I don't think 25 [TS]

00:36:06   years ago media prognosticator 'he's [TS]

00:36:08   could have seen could have foreseen a [TS]

00:36:12   world in which media now is deeply and [TS]

00:36:18   universally biased like every single [TS]

00:36:21   media outlet nobody's pretending to be [TS]

00:36:25   unbiased anymore it's it's quite the [TS]

00:36:26   opposite [TS]

00:36:27   every single everything everybody is a [TS]

00:36:30   reporter and everybody is putting a real [TS]

00:36:32   stamp on it and I'm i was thinking like [TS]

00:36:34   is universally biased media in some ways [TS]

00:36:40   accomplishing a lack of bias or or like [TS]

00:36:46   your ability to put you take if you take [TS]

00:36:50   all the reporting as a whole [TS]

00:36:51   yeah if you take it I wasn't trying to [TS]

00:36:53   like insert false equivalency into every [TS]

00:36:55   single person's coverage you look at [TS]

00:36:57   this as many many different voices that [TS]

00:36:59   understandably have a point of view [TS]

00:37:00   yeah and that ultimately if you're [TS]

00:37:03   trying up a more nuanced idea of what is [TS]

00:37:10   what actually transpired is it go is [TS]

00:37:13   accomplishable right you can look at it [TS]

00:37:15   you can look at all of the reporting [TS]

00:37:18   across a wide spectrum and get maybe [TS]

00:37:20   even a better picture of what happened [TS]

00:37:23   then if you're if five people are [TS]

00:37:25   they're trying to be on by its not [TS]

00:37:27   historically what papers in the UK have [TS]

00:37:29   done [TS]

00:37:29   I mean it has not historically been [TS]

00:37:31   certain papers even to this day that the [TS]

00:37:33   Guardian tends to be more liberal than [TS]

00:37:35   theirs isn't how it's worked [TS]

00:37:37   historically there there it's like that [TS]

00:37:40   was more they were more openly [TS]

00:37:42   contentious but they were still major I [TS]

00:37:46   mean they get it you needed resources to [TS]

00:37:50   be able to be heard and resources always [TS]

00:37:54   come with strings attached and now we [TS]

00:37:56   just don't have that right you don't [TS]

00:37:58   need you don't need any resources if [TS]

00:38:02   you're the one person sitting there with [TS]

00:38:03   your cell phone when a comet streaks [TS]

00:38:06   across the sky yet that you did your [TS]

00:38:09   footage will find a place in the world [TS]

00:38:12   right here mean youyou that will be on [TS]

00:38:15   the news tomorrow even if you're the [TS]

00:38:18   only one that caught it and that doesn't [TS]

00:38:20   you don't have you're not a reporter [TS]

00:38:21   you're not getting you're not out there [TS]

00:38:24   working your beach and that's something [TS]

00:38:27   there's a distinction there that started [TS]

00:38:29   i'm gonna get in the nineteen eighties [TS]

00:38:29   which is if you had a portable video [TS]

00:38:33   camera [TS]

00:38:34   you could be the one who is actually [TS]

00:38:35   recording the media and res like you're [TS]

00:38:39   basically Ronnie can King right but the [TS]

00:38:42   things you've always been there has [TS]

00:38:44   always been the opportunity for you to [TS]

00:38:45   be interviewed as a witness of a thing [TS]

00:38:47   but as the witness of a thing I don't [TS]

00:38:49   need a semiotic air your Europe you're [TS]

00:38:52   basically part of the story now but [TS]

00:38:54   you're not the one who's actually [TS]

00:38:55   bringing the evidence of that to the [TS]

00:38:57   public [TS]

00:38:58   right right it's still not still like a [TS]

00:39:00   point of view you're the person who says [TS]

00:39:02   I saw the accident and this is what [TS]

00:39:03   happened well I saw the accident and [TS]

00:39:05   this is what happened [TS]

00:39:06   whereas I think there is that we tend to [TS]

00:39:08   give more weight to something like you [TS]

00:39:10   know that the Bigfoot tape right i mean [TS]

00:39:12   like when you're able to go out and say [TS]

00:39:13   you know [TS]

00:39:14   i recorded this that has primacy and and [TS]

00:39:16   that's something that didn't exist as [TS]

00:39:18   widely before release the eighties [TS]

00:39:20   probably the nineties right but i think [TS]

00:39:23   the the the other side and the thing [TS]

00:39:26   that we're now in a I don't know whether [TS]

00:39:30   this is a transitional moment or whether [TS]

00:39:33   it's this is this is the thing about [TS]

00:39:35   transitional moments right you don't [TS]

00:39:36   know whether this is just a five-year [TS]

00:39:39   blip or whether this is the beginning of [TS]

00:39:41   a new way of thinking and in most cases [TS]

00:39:43   i think it's both right it's both a [TS]

00:39:45   five-year blip and also five years from [TS]

00:39:49   now we're going to be on the other side [TS]

00:39:50   of this and will be somewhere different [TS]

00:39:52   than we would have been but everybody's [TS]

00:39:54   a pundit now everybody's x everybody [TS]

00:39:57   thinks that they're hot take is also [TS]

00:40:01   newsworthy and that's what makes the [TS]

00:40:07   that's what makes the moment so pregnant [TS]

00:40:10   like that and and I thought about this [TS]

00:40:13   relative to this woman coming up to me [TS]

00:40:16   in the audience and trying to dress me [TS]

00:40:19   down for a thing [TS]

00:40:20   ultimately what happened was i did a [TS]

00:40:23   performance and she didn't like the [TS]

00:40:25   performance and in that sense it's just [TS]

00:40:29   like you say you don't have to be liked [TS]

00:40:30   by everybody there's always going to be [TS]

00:40:32   somebody that doesn't like Guy Fieri and [TS]

00:40:35   they're not going to like that [TS]

00:40:36   performance but her sense of her own [TS]

00:40:40   importance or her sense of her role in [TS]

00:40:43   that situation was not like I didn't [TS]

00:40:45   like that performance but rather she saw [TS]

00:40:49   herself as the I mean her job in that [TS]

00:40:53   situation was to school me and shame me [TS]

00:40:58   and correct the wrong and she had no [TS]

00:41:03   agency there she wasn't a stakeholder [TS]

00:41:05   she was just purchased a observer but [TS]

00:41:08   all of a sudden she adopted it was now [TS]

00:41:13   her responsibility to on behalf of the [TS]

00:41:16   people onstage fellow performers on [TS]

00:41:19   behalf of them [TS]

00:41:20   she needed now to write this injustice [TS]

00:41:24   and that's new and and it isn't simply [TS]

00:41:31   like I don't I didn't like that [TS]

00:41:34   I'm i don't like that performer I didn't [TS]

00:41:36   like that performance and in the past [TS]

00:41:38   you would go home and you dried-up you'd [TS]

00:41:40   write up a blog post or you would write [TS]

00:41:42   an article for the local newspaper that [TS]

00:41:46   said this was a performance I thought it [TS]

00:41:48   was bad but to add that other elements [TS]

00:41:53   of you know i am a i'm a crusader [TS]

00:41:57   personally for and and both working as a [TS]

00:42:04   as a like a media member and also as a [TS]

00:42:10   what is this other what what is this [TS]

00:42:13   other job you know the job of the the [TS]

00:42:20   like the the sort of puritanical the the [TS]

00:42:27   the one picking up the first stone you [TS]

00:42:30   know almost but I mean here's the thing [TS]

00:42:32   is the part of his shifting the idea of [TS]

00:42:36   what we consider a political space so [TS]

00:42:38   you know the kinds of folks who started [TS]

00:42:40   let's say in particular you can have [TS]

00:42:41   people who were striking for union [TS]

00:42:45   issues in previous generations or in the [TS]

00:42:48   sixties and seventies people who are [TS]

00:42:50   protesting whether that is segregation [TS]

00:42:53   or protesting nuclear proliferation but [TS]

00:42:57   you know there are people who took an [TS]

00:42:59   active role in saying like i need to to [TS]

00:43:03   paraphrase that guy from berkeley you [TS]

00:43:04   know throw yourself upon the gears [TS]

00:43:06   it's my job here to go in and disrupt [TS]

00:43:08   what's happening here because and again [TS]

00:43:11   we can all disagree on whether it is [TS]

00:43:12   appropriate or not but I'm just saying [TS]

00:43:13   there was a time when you could say look [TS]

00:43:15   you know I I don't want to have a [TS]

00:43:17   nuclear reactor my backyard [TS]

00:43:19   I'm going to chain myself to a fence or [TS]

00:43:21   the kind of folks who would say like I'm [TS]

00:43:22   gonna go put a daisy into the the police [TS]

00:43:25   officers rifle with whatever but it's [TS]

00:43:27   just that now today it feels like and I [TS]

00:43:30   don't have a strong super strong opinion [TS]

00:43:32   but I'm just suggesting [TS]

00:43:33   that now the politics has moved from you [TS]

00:43:37   know Superfund sites two stages and the [TS]

00:43:40   people who want to throw themselves upon [TS]

00:43:41   the gears and levers are by the are [TS]

00:43:44   taking sent a similar role to what [TS]

00:43:46   people would have done to protest in a [TS]

00:43:47   different time whether I agree with them [TS]

00:43:49   or not they feel so strongly about this [TS]

00:43:51   that they can't allow this to go on [TS]

00:43:52   interrupted yeah is I mean I guess what [TS]

00:43:57   I mean there's not really a question [TS]

00:43:58   there do you see any analog between what [TS]

00:44:00   people were doing in previous [TS]

00:44:01   generations to whether that's the lights [TS]

00:44:03   you know attacking mechanical devices or [TS]

00:44:06   whether that's people saying you know [TS]

00:44:08   I'm gonna sit at this lunch counter do [TS]

00:44:10   you see if you don't you see that as [TS]

00:44:11   part of some extension of a protest to [TS]

00:44:13   say I'm just doing it in a different [TS]

00:44:14   place now I well I mean I i see exactly [TS]

00:44:20   the point you're making [TS]

00:44:21   and I wonder and i think it's i think [TS]

00:44:23   it's related to the fact that right now [TS]

00:44:27   it's very clear to members of our [TS]

00:44:36   community though the left-right that [TS]

00:44:42   we're living in a world in which blacks [TS]

00:44:47   and Hispanics and women and transgender [TS]

00:44:50   people are being oppressed by a white [TS]

00:44:56   patriarchal of like uber culture and [TS]

00:45:01   when you listen to the Trump supporters [TS]

00:45:03   they are equally convinced that white [TS]

00:45:10   Christian America is being violently [TS]

00:45:14   oppressed by the like Mochaccino [TS]

00:45:20   coalition of liberal intellectual media [TS]

00:45:24   Hollywood well yeah that's that that's [TS]

00:45:28   the tease out is it sits cysts they see [TS]

00:45:31   that as systemic oppression [TS]

00:45:34   yeah but that we are that the left is [TS]

00:45:37   the is the majority is them is the mega [TS]

00:45:40   culture and that they're that the white [TS]

00:45:43   Christian America is is increasingly [TS]

00:45:46   like [TS]

00:45:47   being violently suppressed and when you [TS]

00:45:53   start to listen to everyone's story now [TS]

00:45:55   in the u.s. he realized that every [TS]

00:45:58   single person every single political [TS]

00:46:01   group every every entity has a narrative [TS]

00:46:05   in which they are being victimized and [TS]

00:46:11   oppressed by a majority out and and it [TS]

00:46:18   leaves me with the feeling that not [TS]

00:46:21   every single person is not every group [TS]

00:46:23   of people in America can be [TS]

00:46:25   simultaneously oppressed by a by a [TS]

00:46:27   majority but that is the that is the [TS]

00:46:32   current it's not it's not just a [TS]

00:46:35   vocabulary and it's not an expedient [TS]

00:46:38   political system it's a it's heartfelt [TS]

00:46:41   belief and from our side [TS]

00:46:44   it's very clear it in the minutiae right [TS]

00:46:48   in each individual case of police [TS]

00:46:51   brutality or of all the injustice 'as a [TS]

00:46:55   rape culture and cetera [TS]

00:46:57   each one of those things in its [TS]

00:46:59   specificity it's very clear who the [TS]

00:47:01   oppressor is and what our job as the [TS]

00:47:05   oppressed or representatives of the [TS]

00:47:08   oppressed or allies of the oppressed [TS]

00:47:10   like where where our work should be [TS]

00:47:12   where to focus our efforts right but you [TS]

00:47:16   listen to the other side of the aisle [TS]

00:47:19   and in the specificity of their [TS]

00:47:23   oppression there's just exactly the same [TS]

00:47:26   conviction that in this instance and in [TS]

00:47:29   that instance and in that instance the [TS]

00:47:32   oppression is so clear and so dramatic [TS]

00:47:36   and so threatening and they are also [TS]

00:47:39   stringing together a narrative extremely [TS]

00:47:43   compelling to themselves that those that [TS]

00:47:47   the specificity of those things [TS]

00:47:51   spells a you know a widespread culture [TS]

00:47:58   of intolerance that's coming from the [TS]

00:48:00   other side of the aisle and so although [TS]

00:48:04   I absolutely see like the analogy you're [TS]

00:48:06   making to the anti-war movement with the [TS]

00:48:09   civil rights movement where people are [TS]

00:48:10   our see an injustice and are trying to [TS]

00:48:12   change themselves to to the gates of the [TS]

00:48:15   weapons plant that is there percent i [TS]

00:48:19   think that is absolutely people's [TS]

00:48:21   perception of their of the work that [TS]

00:48:23   they're doing but it's happening it's [TS]

00:48:26   more and more granular all the time [TS]

00:48:29   until you meet people who use who are [TS]

00:48:34   also i mean like again not to not to [TS]

00:48:37   just keep dumping on this this one [TS]

00:48:39   individual but she was a white woman at [TS]

00:48:41   a at a conference you had to apply to [TS]

00:48:44   attend that cost a lot of money to [TS]

00:48:47   attend but she was perceiving herself [TS]

00:48:51   not only as a victim but also as a [TS]

00:48:53   defender of other people that she was [TS]

00:48:58   imposing victimhood on you get the sense [TS]

00:49:01   that this is happening is the way you're [TS]

00:49:03   describing this kind of sounds like it's [TS]

00:49:05   blanket party on John you get the [TS]

00:49:06   feeling this person was there to do [TS]

00:49:07   other things of this sort with different [TS]

00:49:10   ideas and causes or do you think she [TS]

00:49:13   just was specifically wanted to take you [TS]

00:49:16   out [TS]

00:49:16   I I mean who knows I'm it's not like I [TS]

00:49:21   went and read her Twitter feed but her [TS]

00:49:23   her comments to me in both instances [TS]

00:49:26   were um you know like presupposed a [TS]

00:49:32   truth that didn't exist like she was [TS]

00:49:34   judging me based on my appearance and [TS]

00:49:38   presumed from my appearance and my [TS]

00:49:41   position at the festival that I was all [TS]

00:49:44   these things that she was against her [TS]

00:49:46   and she came into the festival already [TS]

00:49:50   against those things and found a way [TS]

00:49:53   that we found a way to it to fit my [TS]

00:49:56   behavior however little it resembled [TS]

00:49:59   what she thought it was you know into [TS]

00:50:01   into that matrix [TS]

00:50:03   but I see it at in trying to make sense [TS]

00:50:08   in trying to parse our our our current [TS]

00:50:11   political situation like I hear that [TS]

00:50:13   same kind of like confidence indignation [TS]

00:50:22   from people that I disagree with it [TS]

00:50:25   totally and I'm talking about people [TS]

00:50:27   that think that the that the white race [TS]

00:50:28   is under attack but the tone and the and [TS]

00:50:33   the victimhood is like a note for knows [TS]

00:50:37   coming from the same emotional place and [TS]

00:50:42   that's why I feel like this is a this is [TS]

00:50:45   a transitional moment right we cannot [TS]

00:50:47   continue along a path where we each [TS]

00:50:51   individually become more and more [TS]

00:50:53   convinced that we are being sailed by at [TS]

00:50:57   you know by every other group of [TS]

00:50:58   stakeholders you know that we it's not [TS]

00:51:01   sustainable [TS]

00:51:02   it's a it's a moment and eventually [TS]

00:51:05   people are going to have to start and [TS]

00:51:08   this is part of I think acknowledging [TS]

00:51:10   your privilege which is that each [TS]

00:51:13   individual group is going to have to [TS]

00:51:15   start acknowledging their own power and [TS]

00:51:17   acknowledging it in its appropriate [TS]

00:51:20   context and saying you know like I am [TS]

00:51:23   NOT a victim I am empowered there are [TS]

00:51:28   challenges i still feel disenfranchised [TS]

00:51:32   but that dissing front that but that [TS]

00:51:34   disenfranchisement I feel in this area [TS]

00:51:37   is not like a is not a massive [TS]

00:51:43   conspiracy to disenfranchise me it is [TS]

00:51:45   simply that I'm encountering people that [TS]

00:51:48   disagree or that you know that my power [TS]

00:51:50   is truncated in this way and in that or [TS]

00:51:52   was historically but actually I do have [TS]

00:51:55   a lot of power now i am a you know I'm a [TS]

00:51:57   middle-class university student or I am [TS]

00:52:00   a you know I'm a successful business [TS]

00:52:02   person or I am i I'm just a blogger but [TS]

00:52:06   my voice is heard in a way that that in [TS]

00:52:09   the past [TS]

00:52:10   no one of my stature could have been [TS]

00:52:13   heard [TS]

00:52:13   and-and-and that that's the next level [TS]

00:52:16   of examining privilege [TS]

00:52:18   well yeah that or acknowledging its not [TS]

00:52:21   just examining it's like it's like [TS]

00:52:23   nobody I mean acknowledging part is huge [TS]

00:52:25   but I mean that's and I think it's [TS]

00:52:27   actually super instructive it's been [TS]

00:52:29   really it's been a good tonic for me as [TS]

00:52:31   much as I push back initially it's been [TS]

00:52:34   a good tonic for me as a human being but [TS]

00:52:36   i wanna just say one thing here on from [TS]

00:52:39   admittedly admittedly from a remove [TS]

00:52:41   because i'm not super involved in this [TS]

00:52:43   conversation but i think it's been it's [TS]

00:52:46   been very interesting to remove watch [TS]

00:52:50   the evolution discussion about feminism [TS]

00:52:52   which started out for a long time is [TS]

00:52:55   mostly white women and their allies and [TS]

00:52:58   over time there's a different strain [TS]

00:53:00   that developed of white people black [TS]

00:53:03   feminism and a very very different [TS]

00:53:06   strain of latina feminism and a real [TS]

00:53:08   different approach for that and like do [TS]

00:53:10   you want to be [TS]

00:53:10   how is this inclusive is this the angle [TS]

00:53:12   you know that's just the whole idea that [TS]

00:53:14   feminism is not some spray on approach [TS]

00:53:16   to quality but it's actually [TS]

00:53:18   fundamentally different way of thinking [TS]

00:53:19   about the world an idea that has the [TS]

00:53:21   biggest people are still getting their [TS]

00:53:22   head around i remember you know the [TS]

00:53:24   gender studies class i had college first [TS]

00:53:26   being presented with that idea at the [TS]

00:53:29   age of about twenty be pretty blown away [TS]

00:53:31   because i always thought oh blah pra [TS]

00:53:33   that's just that's so silly like we know [TS]

00:53:35   how do we need to do this just that idea [TS]

00:53:37   that fits that I mean and how I just I [TS]

00:53:41   I'm very intrigued by that idea that [TS]

00:53:44   even white women in that instance are [TS]

00:53:47   going to have to look at a lot of [TS]

00:53:49   unexamined hot precepts about what they [TS]

00:53:53   believe and historically have existed a [TS]

00:53:54   certain way in order not simply to [TS]

00:53:57   accommodate other people but to truly [TS]

00:54:00   understand that for me to really [TS]

00:54:02   understand the nature of this thing [TS]

00:54:03   we're mostly my kind of voice of has had [TS]

00:54:05   privacy it's really important for me to [TS]

00:54:08   open my idea of what this thing is and [TS]

00:54:11   that means sitting listening to other [TS]

00:54:12   people who historically have been out [TS]

00:54:14   there saying i wanted i wanna defend and [TS]

00:54:17   I want to support whose position i [TS]

00:54:20   assume i'm taking care of and then they [TS]

00:54:22   come up and a lot of you know black [TS]

00:54:23   ladies come up and go you know what [TS]

00:54:24   actually we would do this a real [TS]

00:54:26   different way [TS]

00:54:27   Latina ladies come up and say you know [TS]

00:54:28   what we would do this a real different [TS]

00:54:29   way [TS]

00:54:30   that's AII that's something where every [TS]

00:54:32   time i hear about that I'm really [TS]

00:54:33   intrigued and it's not a snarky way at [TS]

00:54:35   all [TS]

00:54:35   it's another way of saying like you know [TS]

00:54:37   when we talk about if there's anything [TS]

00:54:39   any part of this [TS]

00:54:40   well the most important part of is a [TS]

00:54:42   white guys learn to suck it up and [TS]

00:54:43   realize that we're not the king of [TS]

00:54:44   everything left side that I really feel [TS]

00:54:46   that way but the second part of it is [TS]

00:54:48   what you're describing that's where the [TS]

00:54:49   guys you need to learn this more than [TS]

00:54:50   anybody else but it doesn't stop there [TS]

00:54:52   by any stretch and I think if there's [TS]

00:54:54   anything that's a little bit damaging [TS]

00:54:56   and destructive it's to sit on a perch [TS]

00:54:58   and feel like we finally understood how [TS]

00:54:59   a situation works it's the softness and [TS]

00:55:01   openness to understanding how other [TS]

00:55:03   people have a point of view about these [TS]

00:55:05   things that that helps these ideas [TS]

00:55:07   become something more than just this [TS]

00:55:09   this striding political position it [TS]

00:55:11   becomes a way of what's up as you say [TS]

00:55:13   about technology it's a way of [TS]

00:55:14   understanding the world in a way that is [TS]

00:55:16   really illuminating yeah and connect can [TS]

00:55:18   be can be a wonderful thing so I'm not [TS]

00:55:21   trying to pass off the hole where you go [TS]

00:55:22   prove which 2i got the most boy believe [TS]

00:55:24   me I i I'm getting that but it is it is [TS]

00:55:27   intriguing to watch and you know and [TS]

00:55:29   then to see how that will evolve [TS]

00:55:31   where is it you know it's we think about [TS]

00:55:34   that d punching up and punching down and [TS]

00:55:37   you know at what point is interrupting [TS]

00:55:39   that show not punching up you know what [TS]

00:55:42   I mean I'm absolutely and I think I [TS]

00:55:44   think to your point like there is still [TS]

00:55:47   a tremendous energy within white [TS]

00:55:50   feminists that fails to I mean that's [TS]

00:55:54   very defensive when confronted by [TS]

00:55:57   feminists of color right like that like [TS]

00:56:00   like that is that kind of the tension [TS]

00:56:03   within feminism is fascinating to watch [TS]

00:56:05   but like the the approach right in this [TS]

00:56:09   cultural moment of acknowledging [TS]

00:56:11   privilege and being and in a way being [TS]

00:56:15   ashamed of that that first moment of [TS]

00:56:18   like oh my god i didn't know how much [TS]

00:56:20   privilege i had [TS]

00:56:21   and I'm ashamed that i was operating in [TS]

00:56:24   the world thinking that I was thinking [TS]

00:56:28   that I have the same challenges that [TS]

00:56:29   everybody else did [TS]

00:56:30   when in fact i had quite a few [TS]

00:56:33   advantages that it just never occurred [TS]

00:56:35   to me i had um and that that idea of it [TS]

00:56:42   of saying wow I have a lot of advantages [TS]

00:56:46   that I wasn't aware of and that and [TS]

00:56:50   taking away the the element of of um [TS]

00:56:55   really of shame about it but also of [TS]

00:56:59   saying like that i mean each individual [TS]

00:57:02   person has advantages even out of a [TS]

00:57:06   cultural context that that we weren't [TS]

00:57:09   taught to think that any of us really to [TS]

00:57:13   wake up in the morning and count our [TS]

00:57:14   advantages and and acknowledge like [TS]

00:57:19   gracefully and with humility that not [TS]

00:57:23   everybody has those advantages and those [TS]

00:57:25   aren't limited to advantages of gender [TS]

00:57:27   or race and that is a very I think up [TS]

00:57:31   its on the path to a very much more [TS]

00:57:34   spiritual culture at and right now we're [TS]

00:57:38   in a in this moment where a lot of our [TS]

00:57:43   intellectual capital is being kind of [TS]

00:57:45   expended both sort of pillorying other [TS]

00:57:51   people for privileged that they aren't [TS]

00:57:53   acknowledging and ourselves for [TS]

00:57:56   privileged that in a lot of cases we [TS]

00:57:58   having been made aware of it [TS]

00:58:00   we're now trying to address at all times [TS]

00:58:02   right or or to the best of our ability [TS]

00:58:04   but you can't you can't seed power right [TS]

00:58:08   and you know where you have to you have [TS]

00:58:11   to take power and that's Machiavelli but [TS]

00:58:15   it is an untrue right power that's given [TS]

00:58:17   to you by somebody else is power that [TS]

00:58:20   they still hold and if if it's being [TS]

00:58:24   granted to you it doesn't belong to you [TS]

00:58:27   power is something that he sees and and [TS]

00:58:32   hold and that's both individually and [TS]

00:58:36   Colt and you know in cultures but the [TS]

00:58:39   next step for us all [TS]

00:58:41   i think is to say you know what I mean [TS]

00:58:43   it's we look over at the white [TS]

00:58:45   Christians and say you guys are you guys [TS]

00:58:49   have all the advantages right you're [TS]

00:58:52   them your ostensibly the majority and [TS]

00:58:55   all these oil workers down in Louisiana [TS]

00:58:56   who are living on food stamps are like [TS]

00:58:58   what the fuck are you talking about [TS]

00:59:00   we feel a sale that every at every level [TS]

00:59:03   and part of our part of our [TS]

00:59:07   acknowledgement of our privilege is also [TS]

00:59:09   to sort of it like acknowledge their [TS]

00:59:11   lack of it and and that isn't confined [TS]

00:59:16   right i mean every day now I wake up and [TS]

00:59:20   not only reflect on my own privilege but [TS]

00:59:22   reflect on the many many ways that every [TS]

00:59:26   person even even the richest guy in [TS]

00:59:29   Seattle wakes up and feels under assault [TS]

00:59:31   somehow like nobody had a nobody had a [TS]

00:59:35   good day yesterday moving away right and [TS]

00:59:39   we've talked about that quite a bit [TS]

00:59:40   the the fact that bill gates's day [TS]

00:59:45   yesterday was probably pretty hard and [TS]

00:59:48   part of being human part of being a [TS]

00:59:54   successful human is to accept that and [TS]

00:59:56   and have sympathy for him to have sex [TS]

00:59:56   and have sympathy for him to have sex [TS]

01:00:00   empathy for everybody that you encounter [TS]

01:00:01   and that's why you don't see shitty [TS]

01:00:04   things to people on the internet it's [TS]

01:00:07   why you don't it's why you're not a [TS]

01:00:09   gamer Gator but it's also important to [TS]

01:00:12   not wake up in a in like a a feeling of [TS]

01:00:15   of like hyper righteous liberal [TS]

01:00:18   superiority because everybody's having a [TS]

01:00:21   bad time but you know there's another [TS]

01:00:24   part of this state's I that's really [TS]

01:00:27   complicated i wish i could talk about [TS]

01:00:28   this at a time other than we just talked [TS]

01:00:30   about a lot of political and cultural [TS]

01:00:31   things but there's another part of this [TS]

01:00:33   which is that they're there is [TS]

01:00:34   regardless of the side that you're on I [TS]

01:00:37   do feel like there's a very strong [TS]

01:00:38   culture of telling people what they're [TS]

01:00:40   doing wrong [TS]

01:00:41   these days to sort of your favorite [TS]

01:00:42   topic for so long it is really like to [TS]

01:00:45   say you know what the internet is [TS]

01:00:47   constantly telling you that you're [TS]

01:00:48   enjoying life wrong but here's the [TS]

01:00:49   problem [TS]

01:00:50   so they're doing the internet wrong yeah [TS]

01:00:51   but like it's in this i'm trying to make [TS]

01:00:53   a slight bridge to the personal which is [TS]

01:00:55   an impossible bridge to make because the [TS]

01:00:58   person has become very political [TS]

01:00:59   so in a if if we could just play along [TS]

01:01:03   with me for a minute that we have [TS]

01:01:05   developed into a more gotcha culture of [TS]

01:01:07   trying to find what somebody's doing [TS]

01:01:09   wrong [TS]

01:01:09   the one downside of that is that the [TS]

01:01:12   stakes for changing have become a lot [TS]

01:01:14   higher and there is less and less [TS]

01:01:17   incentive to want to fix something about [TS]

01:01:22   yourself if it makes it look like you're [TS]

01:01:24   a flip-flopper or being disloyal or your [TS]

01:01:27   capitulating and and so while I [TS]

01:01:29   understand the need for stridency and [TS]

01:01:30   lots of things on a personal basis the [TS]

01:01:32   part that I struggle with is and I you [TS]

01:01:35   know I'm not trying to tell anybody to [TS]

01:01:36   do it differently [TS]

01:01:37   I'm just I'm just this is just a [TS]

01:01:38   personal feeling is that it is it is [TS]

01:01:40   difficult when you do feel like you're [TS]

01:01:42   doing what you can in whatever way and [TS]

01:01:47   it's understandably not always going to [TS]

01:01:49   be it's never going to be enough for [TS]

01:01:51   some folks but i guess the thing that [TS]

01:01:54   I'd love to see it evolve toward is [TS]

01:01:56   where a conversation about something [TS]

01:01:57   like privilege goes from being the [TS]

01:01:59   opportunity where you admit that you're [TS]

01:02:01   wrong about everything to chance for [TS]

01:02:03   personal growth and the chance for [TS]

01:02:05   personal growth requires that you allow [TS]

01:02:07   yourself to become kind of vulnerable [TS]

01:02:09   even publicly vulnerable and I think the [TS]

01:02:11   risk to go straight back to talk in [TS]

01:02:14   front of a crowd i think the risk of [TS]

01:02:16   being publicly vulnerable is really [TS]

01:02:17   tough for a lot of people on every side [TS]

01:02:19   of every aisle and the more the more [TS]

01:02:24   pitched these things become and the [TS]

01:02:27   higher the stakes it feels like you are [TS]

01:02:29   giving a part of yourself away [TS]

01:02:31   personally by admitting there's anything [TS]

01:02:33   that you could do better and I i know [TS]

01:02:36   that that is a second or third stage for [TS]

01:02:39   for a lot of kinds of changing growth to [TS]

01:02:41   get to that point that there has to be [TS]

01:02:42   this certain kind of you know nearly [TS]

01:02:45   violent political confrontation to make [TS]

01:02:47   things happen but like I'm looking [TS]

01:02:49   forward to the point where it will be [TS]

01:02:50   okay to admit that you have feelings one [TS]

01:02:54   way or another and have a conversation [TS]

01:02:55   about that and that not go straight to [TS]

01:02:58   the political had that nut goes straight [TS]

01:02:59   to the like here's the highlight reel of [TS]

01:03:01   how this person is a garbage person [TS]

01:03:04   because they changed their mind about [TS]

01:03:05   something on either or any side and as [TS]

01:03:08   you know as long as it's this difficult [TS]

01:03:10   to talk about something and have it be [TS]

01:03:12   an idea that you try on like a suit as [TS]

01:03:14   you like to say as long as that has such [TS]

01:03:18   potential Giants takes to it it's hard [TS]

01:03:20   for anybody to talk honestly and for [TS]

01:03:22   anything in any side to go you know what [TS]

01:03:24   I got that part wrong even if you're the [TS]

01:03:26   person who's trying to castigate [TS]

01:03:27   somebody on the other side was doing it [TS]

01:03:28   wrong you know if you were wrong about [TS]

01:03:30   them doing it wrong [TS]

01:03:31   are you gonna admit that you doing that [TS]

01:03:33   no because you're just as invested in [TS]

01:03:35   that as the other person has now doubled [TS]

01:03:37   down on their investment in that thing [TS]

01:03:39   and that doesn't get us anywhere because [TS]

01:03:41   that's then that's why this election [TS]

01:03:43   year is partly why it's so disgusting [TS]

01:03:46   and hard to watch [TS]

01:03:47   it's nuts we all just dug in further and [TS]

01:03:50   further and further and nobody's allowed [TS]

01:03:52   to be a little bit broken for a while in [TS]

01:03:53   the service of becoming fixed the reason [TS]

01:03:57   i feel that this is a that this is a a [TS]

01:03:59   momentary space is that in a lot of [TS]

01:04:05   things like this I always sort of asked [TS]

01:04:07   what's the what's your endgame like in [TS]

01:04:10   calling attention to people's privilege [TS]

01:04:12   what is the end game and I'm talking [TS]

01:04:13   about you know looking out into the [TS]

01:04:16   future [TS]

01:04:17   it can operate within a space where if [TS]

01:04:24   you examine the endgame it is to create [TS]

01:04:28   a world in which there is no privilege [TS]

01:04:30   like no advantage no group of people has [TS]

01:04:34   an advantage over any other group of [TS]

01:04:36   people like that is one potential look [TS]

01:04:40   at calling out privilege because if we [TS]

01:04:43   call it out we can redress the the [TS]

01:04:46   systemic institutional ways in which [TS]

01:04:49   certain groups of people are privileged [TS]

01:04:51   over others but of course you get into a [TS]

01:04:54   you get immediately into a situation [TS]

01:04:57   where what is it and what way does sort [TS]

01:05:02   of like talent factor into that right [TS]

01:05:05   like obviously there are privileges that [TS]

01:05:09   what we're right now at a place where [TS]

01:05:10   we're addressing massives privileges of [TS]

01:05:14   massive scale and event of great [TS]

01:05:16   historical portent historical portent [TS]

01:05:19   that have created like a massive scale [TS]

01:05:22   of privilege but it's very easy within [TS]

01:05:26   that overarching like rubric to in on a [TS]

01:05:32   personal level be attacking people for [TS]

01:05:34   like privileges that are that are much [TS]

01:05:38   more personal [TS]

01:05:39   you know like um for instance of my [TS]

01:05:44   ability to get up on stage and [TS]

01:05:45   extemporize you can critique that as [TS]

01:05:50   purely the results of the fact that I'm [TS]

01:05:52   a white male but from with from my world [TS]

01:05:58   of feelings [TS]

01:05:59   it feels like that ability is a talent [TS]

01:06:02   like being able to run a four-minute [TS]

01:06:03   mile I'm gifted with it and it isn't [TS]

01:06:08   like at anybody that's raised a child [TS]

01:06:10   recognizes that you can do a lot you can [TS]

01:06:13   do a lot of work to try to correct what [TS]

01:06:16   you perceive to be the cultural tell you [TS]

01:06:20   know tentacles that are part of a [TS]

01:06:23   child's upbringing but you also see that [TS]

01:06:25   a child at six months old already is [TS]

01:06:27   exhibiting personality and talent and [TS]

01:06:30   and [TS]

01:06:31   and predilection that no one had [TS]

01:06:34   anything to do with right it wasn't [TS]

01:06:36   cultural it was just a mate in them [TS]

01:06:39   operatory and my ability to stand up and [TS]

01:06:43   and confidently take charge of a room [TS]

01:06:46   was the thing that was in me when I was [TS]

01:06:48   six months old right but it's but I'm [TS]

01:06:51   vulnerable to being critiqued as purely [TS]

01:06:54   a product of the soul of a social [TS]

01:06:57   construct and for me when I think about [TS]

01:07:04   the conversation about privilege I think [TS]

01:07:08   of a potential endgame being that [TS]

01:07:11   through the different groups of people [TS]

01:07:14   through the different the different [TS]

01:07:17   actors both like macro actors and micro [TS]

01:07:21   actors we're able to say here are our [TS]

01:07:25   talents here are the things that my [TS]

01:07:27   group is good at here are the here are [TS]

01:07:30   the privileges that we are capable of [TS]

01:07:33   bringing to bear to collectively solve [TS]

01:07:36   problems better like if there is a group [TS]

01:07:40   of people that is you know that because [TS]

01:07:43   of cultural or economic or a or innate [TS]

01:07:49   like both skills talents and also [TS]

01:07:54   culturally just like yes I'm i was [TS]

01:07:56   raised with a silver spoon in my mouth [TS]

01:07:58   and therefore i have this agency in the [TS]

01:08:00   world i have this ability that [TS]

01:08:03   ultimately the goal is to to learn [TS]

01:08:06   together to not be greedy and to enact [TS]

01:08:11   that privilege on behalf of others or to [TS]

01:08:13   you know like the goal can if we start [TS]

01:08:17   to think that the goal is to level all [TS]

01:08:19   privileged then that's a political [TS]

01:08:22   movement that we also need to call out [TS]

01:08:26   you know that's not that isn't benign [TS]

01:08:29   necessarily or study hall in Dianna moon [TS]

01:08:33   glampers handicapper general right we [TS]

01:08:38   haven't dividers and Bergeron this [TS]

01:08:39   entire time [TS]

01:08:41   well I have an email here I want to read [TS]

01:08:43   oh dear i got an ad in here somewhere [TS]

01:08:46   after this episode of rock on the line [TS]

01:08:53   is brought to you by braintree code for [TS]

01:08:56   easy online payments you can learn more [TS]

01:08:58   about brings you right now by visiting [TS]

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01:10:17   our thanks to braintree for taking the [TS]

01:10:19   pain out of online payments and for [TS]

01:10:21   supporting Roderick on the line five [TS]

01:10:23   professional podcasting let me read this [TS]

01:10:27   email was gonna read an email em I'm [TS]

01:10:30   gonna I'm gonna read act some of the [TS]

01:10:32   this is completely off the topic of what [TS]

01:10:33   we've been talking about thank you [TS]

01:10:35   this is something completely else I'm [TS]

01:10:39   going to redact some other some of the [TS]

01:10:41   names [TS]

01:10:42   this is an invitation that has been [TS]

01:10:47   tendered to me OK by a firm [TS]

01:10:52   which I think use it's one of those [TS]

01:10:56   firms that maybe calls itself a design [TS]

01:10:58   firm but feels like an advertising push [TS]

01:11:01   on the board [TS]

01:11:02   do you know do you know what no they're [TS]

01:11:04   a bit if this was a letter about putting [TS]

01:11:06   me on the board i would have led with [TS]

01:11:08   this I wouldn't have buried this lead [TS]

01:11:11   this is a i-don't-know-what design firms [TS]

01:11:15   do frankly and out is differentiated [TS]

01:11:18   from advertising haha you kidding me [TS]

01:11:22   here here being serious [TS]

01:11:24   here's the letter alright okay they're [TS]

01:11:29   inviting me to a design gathering it is [TS]

01:11:38   i'm reading letter it is comma a few [TS]

01:11:42   days to get away to somewhere else and [TS]

01:11:46   be more and different this is addressed [TS]

01:11:50   to me personally that isn't boy lovely [TS]

01:11:53   know here's a link to a video that gives [TS]

01:11:59   you a little taste but promise no trust [TS]

01:12:03   circles but there is a talent show or [TS]

01:12:09   maybe called a no talent show more aptly [TS]

01:12:11   where everyone gets up on stage and does [TS]

01:12:13   stuff where others feel embarrassed for [TS]

01:12:15   them otherwise we tackle a problem [TS]

01:12:17   social community creative her where we [TS]

01:12:22   use our creative brains in a different [TS]

01:12:24   way we want to invite you up to this [TS]

01:12:29   resort where you can see the stars and [TS]

01:12:32   hear nothing [TS]

01:12:33   we have a musical performer join us to [TS]

01:12:38   tell us their story their passion look [TS]

01:12:43   at it as storytelling accompanied by [TS]

01:12:46   songs please bring your family and hang [TS]

01:12:50   out with us observe participate or just [TS]

01:12:53   explore the area one night you're [TS]

01:12:57   invited [TS]

01:12:59   and so I wrote back and said hey can you [TS]

01:13:04   clarify sounds like you want me to [TS]

01:13:06   perform is this a pain take it or is [TS]

01:13:15   this because it's weird because it's [TS]

01:13:17   almost like the way just before we got [TS]

01:13:18   want to know this but before we get to [TS]

01:13:20   that it sounds more like this is someone [TS]

01:13:22   you know very well that's essentially [TS]

01:13:24   inviting you to like their summerhouse [TS]

01:13:27   for a nice conversation [TS]

01:13:29   no this is a person whose title is chief [TS]

01:13:31   creative officer right and I've never [TS]

01:13:34   heard of this but you get what I mean [TS]

01:13:35   that's what the tone of that was hey [TS]

01:13:38   here's something you're going to find [TS]

01:13:40   empirically interesting you're going to [TS]

01:13:41   hear a bunch of people talk and then the [TS]

01:13:43   talent show ya talkin and you're welcome [TS]

01:13:46   to bring your family would be a great [TS]

01:13:47   getaway for you that's a nice offer and [TS]

01:13:49   i said uh is a pig or is this an [TS]

01:13:52   experience [TS]

01:13:54   thanks for thinking of me ! John and the [TS]

01:14:00   reply is its kind of all of the above [TS]

01:14:03   that's not acoustic storytelling small [TS]

01:14:09   stipend with a family getaway [TS]

01:14:13   oh i see you're so lucky right you get [TS]

01:14:16   to go out and play your music [TS]

01:14:18   yeah and so I wrote back and said well [TS]

01:14:22   it does sound very much like I am being [TS]

01:14:26   asked to perform a show because I'm not [TS]

01:14:31   just a guitar strum er I'm also a [TS]

01:14:35   storyteller so to say like play a few [TS]

01:14:39   songs tell some stories like the one [TS]

01:14:42   thing doesn't mitigate the other right [TS]

01:14:46   like the storytelling isn't something [TS]

01:14:48   that casual of fires the guitar player [TS]

01:14:51   it's all about the framing the way [TS]

01:14:53   they're framing it is this they're [TS]

01:14:55   trying to frame this in a very specific [TS]

01:14:57   way [TS]

01:14:58   yeah come on out detective frame it as [TS]

01:15:01   you are very fortunate to be invited to [TS]

01:15:03   this particular teddy bear picnic and [TS]

01:15:06   you know on top of it all dude it's [TS]

01:15:08   gonna it's an experience and you can [TS]

01:15:10   bring your family owned part [TS]

01:15:12   we're gonna give you money too can you [TS]

01:15:14   believe it a little bit you know some [TS]

01:15:15   gas money to get up there [TS]

01:15:17   bring your family because you know [TS]

01:15:21   that's how generous we are ya now I went [TS]

01:15:24   online and I looked at this firm they [TS]

01:15:25   have like 40 plus employees and this is [TS]

01:15:31   a big resort somewhere up in the [TS]

01:15:33   mountains that they're taking over for [TS]

01:15:34   this event and you know when you just [TS]

01:15:37   look at the people on that they [TS]

01:15:39   everybody's kind of a chief something [TS]

01:15:41   officer who's like 40 people and they [TS]

01:15:43   all have you know Chief development [TS]

01:15:45   somebody but they did just really gets [TS]

01:15:48   them you get the impression that the [TS]

01:15:49   that the lowest-paid person at this [TS]

01:15:51   place works amazing makes eighty-five [TS]

01:15:52   thousand dollars here [TS]

01:15:53   yeah and it goes up from there right the [TS]

01:15:55   chief creative officer whoever this guy [TS]

01:15:57   is obviously is making a $250,000 here [TS]

01:16:00   and I haven't heard back with the small [TS]

01:16:04   stipend is but i'm guessing two hundred [TS]

01:16:07   fifty dollars uh-huh right isn't that in [TS]

01:16:10   about the small stipend area i said [TS]

01:16:13   small stipend is definitely a thousand [TS]

01:16:14   dollars [TS]

01:16:15   yeah well i think a lot a lot under yeah [TS]

01:16:18   and so you have a stipend or an [TS]

01:16:21   honorarium you think I think I'd rather [TS]

01:16:23   than honorarium says a lot that's a very [TS]

01:16:25   lieutenant-colonel kind of thing to get [TS]

01:16:26   a stipend is like this will let you get [TS]

01:16:29   some bottled water there are some [TS]

01:16:30   vending machines [TS]

01:16:32   here's a little stipend it's like it's [TS]

01:16:34   like a per deem uh-huh but so I ran this [TS]

01:16:37   email by all the other podcasters at the [TS]

01:16:41   festival who are all people that get [TS]

01:16:44   asked to give this kind of speech or [TS]

01:16:47   this kind of thing was like hey come on [TS]

01:16:49   out yeah to our event you'll have an [TS]

01:16:53   uncomfortable bed in a weird room we get [TS]

01:16:57   it you'll be basically onstage the [TS]

01:17:00   entire time because everybody else at [TS]

01:17:03   this event works together and they're [TS]

01:17:05   all bored of each other and we're [TS]

01:17:06   inviting you because you're you know [TS]

01:17:08   like cause everybody knows you and your [TS]

01:17:10   top of the list of people to invite and [TS]

01:17:13   so from the moment you wake up in the [TS]

01:17:14   morning you're going to be performing [TS]

01:17:15   and then you're going to put on a show [TS]

01:17:18   for us and a and it's going to be great [TS]

01:17:22   and then we're all going to sit around [TS]

01:17:24   and I know you don't drink so you know [TS]

01:17:28   there will be some Martinelli's apple [TS]

01:17:30   juice there for you [TS]

01:17:31   well we all get drunk around the [TS]

01:17:33   campfire yeah it's going to be amazing [TS]

01:17:35   he performed campfire sucks for ya and [TS]

01:17:37   then you play the game and then you just [TS]

01:17:39   bring it out because of course you want [TS]

01:17:40   to bring in the guitar out with you and [TS]

01:17:42   if you say no everybody's gonna go all [TS]

01:17:44   so you're you know absolutely going to [TS]

01:17:49   bring the guitar out there and then [TS]

01:17:50   hopefully someone else will also play [TS]

01:17:53   the guitar and we'll get drunk enough [TS]

01:17:55   that you can have them the guitar and [TS]

01:17:56   like a knife like they are you a little [TS]

01:17:57   bit here course where is it [TS]

01:17:59   if I could ask just what state in [TS]

01:18:01   Washington State up in the mountains [TS]

01:18:03   where is it like a hour or less away [TS]

01:18:06   let's call it an hour and a half ok so [TS]

01:18:09   two hours big part there there's not [TS]

01:18:10   extensive travel involved right [TS]

01:18:14   um well that who I don't know when [TS]

01:18:18   people ask me things like that at the [TS]

01:18:20   hell i wean myself off this but i will [TS]

01:18:23   be candid with you John [TS]

01:18:24   there was a time when somebody ask me [TS]

01:18:27   something like that i would say to them [TS]

01:18:29   would you do this for the same amount of [TS]

01:18:33   money and if they said yes I absolutely [TS]

01:18:38   would I said well that's even worse [TS]

01:18:41   yeah because you really don't value your [TS]

01:18:43   time you must not realize how much money [TS]

01:18:45   you should be making out what you're [TS]

01:18:46   doing if you would do that [TS]

01:18:48   so now you're dealing and your little [TS]

01:18:50   dishonest you're dishonest would you go [TS]

01:18:52   and do your job here when you maybe [TS]

01:18:55   that's a thing for a while there was the [TS]

01:18:56   whole like I'm gonna go to a conference [TS]

01:18:57   guy thing like I just go and I give [TS]

01:19:00   talks about deep doop doop doop but man [TS]

01:19:03   that's still that still gets my dander [TS]

01:19:05   up why don't we have a conversation like [TS]

01:19:07   adults about this if you want to hire me [TS]

01:19:09   like what we have that discussion but [TS]

01:19:11   the fact that you keep bringing it back [TS]

01:19:12   to the campfire spaghetti party we're [TS]

01:19:14   going to have forget it [TS]

01:19:16   yeah so and so i have so i have so what [TS]

01:19:18   was the response of the others [TS]

01:19:19   I don't ask the podcasters everybody [TS]

01:19:21   rolled their eyes because everybody gets [TS]

01:19:23   you mean we've all this is not a new [TS]

01:19:25   conversation will talk about this all [TS]

01:19:26   the time all the hilarious letters we [TS]

01:19:29   get asking us to perform for free [TS]

01:19:31   and uh oh and often a thing like this [TS]

01:19:34   where it's a you know this is a design [TS]

01:19:36   firm that is they're going to pay [TS]

01:19:37   twenty-five thousand dollars for a food [TS]

01:19:43   and sundries this event right answer is [TS]

01:19:45   an internal event i think it is [TS]

01:19:48   yeah i think if I loved about that's the [TS]

01:19:50   other part to ask is how much are you [TS]

01:19:51   charging anything for people to come to [TS]

01:19:53   this [TS]

01:19:53   no i think it's i think it's just a a [TS]

01:19:57   getaway for staff such as the first [TS]

01:19:59   design people to go in and we'll walk [TS]

01:20:01   with Wolves [TS]

01:20:02   yeah and just you know and that's the [TS]

01:20:03   thing we're just gonna talk we're gonna [TS]

01:20:04   share creative sup second hang out and [TS]

01:20:07   shit man and the and the shell real [TS]

01:20:09   chill the presumption that I'm gonna get [TS]

01:20:12   as much out of talking to these people [TS]

01:20:16   i I'm gonna get as much out of [TS]

01:20:18   spitballing with them about creative [TS]

01:20:22   stuff as they're going to get out [TS]

01:20:24   spitballing that stuff with me right i [TS]

01:20:26   mean i went to it did I went to an [TS]

01:20:28   advertising agency at one point not very [TS]

01:20:29   long ago that was owned by some some [TS]

01:20:31   friends and they said hey what if we [TS]

01:20:34   just gave you a desk here and i said [TS]

01:20:38   this was a big firm and I said an odd [TS]

01:20:42   thing to say I said how do you mean they [TS]

01:20:43   were like we'll just give you like a [TS]

01:20:45   desk up here at the executive level on [TS]

01:20:48   which is a separate floor and your [TS]

01:20:50   includes can hang out and do whatever [TS]

01:20:52   yeah and you can come and just use the [TS]

01:20:54   space and just be around and hang out [TS]

01:20:58   and I was like and I mean what goes [TS]

01:21:01   along with the desk card are you [TS]

01:21:02   offering me like a job [TS]

01:21:05   Wow now I mean it's more like just here [TS]

01:21:07   so we have extra space you come and I [TS]

01:21:11   was like I come and we sit around with [TS]

01:21:14   our wheelchairs wheeling around throwing [TS]

01:21:17   pencils at the ceiling and then that [TS]

01:21:20   turns into a big ad campaign for you [TS]

01:21:22   guys and I'm and I lucked out in having [TS]

01:21:25   a desk that's a different than your you [TS]

01:21:28   know like critique of the privilege [TS]

01:21:30   thing so if this goes really well if you [TS]

01:21:32   just give me a desk or whatever [TS]

01:21:35   yeah we'll know that that has turned out [TS]

01:21:37   great in a year because what happened [TS]

01:21:41   well and the thing is every time I went [TS]

01:21:42   by there they would walk me through [TS]

01:21:44   their latest campaigns and be like what [TS]

01:21:46   you think of that and i would say well [TS]

01:21:48   that word right there is a little corny [TS]

01:21:51   or did you ever consider this or that [TS]

01:21:54   maybe like nice so yeah there's a reason [TS]

01:21:58   they want me there to give that give me [TS]

01:22:00   a free desk but because we're all [TS]

01:22:03   creatives it just seems like let's just [TS]

01:22:05   get in the creative space and just [TS]

01:22:07   create drama can and so that's the you [TS]

01:22:10   know like I'm going to go up to this [TS]

01:22:11   mountain event and we're going to just [TS]

01:22:14   brainstorm with each other about some [TS]

01:22:16   creative shit you know would help me is [TS]

01:22:18   that i SAT with the with my guitar in a [TS]

01:22:20   room and wrote some songs like that's [TS]

01:22:22   what I am a part of the whole point of [TS]

01:22:24   this man is getting away from the money [TS]

01:22:25   chive that are the point man we gotta [TS]

01:22:28   get off campus just like fucking just [TS]

01:22:31   freaked out a little man just freaked [TS]

01:22:32   out so David Reed david reese said i [TS]

01:22:35   would ask for ten thousand dollars and [TS]

01:22:36   settle for 75 did he sing it [TS]

01:22:38   he didn't look with six i would ask four [TS]

01:22:41   thousand dollars beep boop boop and I [TS]

01:22:45   was like you know the tent the the [TS]

01:22:47   $10,000 is definitely that that's the [TS]

01:22:50   line where you are saying go fuck [TS]

01:22:52   yourself unless you come back and say oh [TS]

01:22:56   you have now made us realize what this [TS]

01:23:00   actually is [TS]

01:23:01   you're the asshole you got invited to [TS]

01:23:02   Thanksgiving dinner and you want to give [TS]

01:23:03   them a fucking invoice yeah what a dick [TS]

01:23:06   that's right I'm i was allowed to bring [TS]

01:23:07   my family all my god that they even said [TS]

01:23:10   you could bring your family we could all [TS]

01:23:12   stay in one in one room [TS]

01:23:14   this week's winner is basically a free [TS]

01:23:15   vacation John it's a prevarication and I [TS]

01:23:18   think and I think what you know i mean [TS]

01:23:20   in my I would never write this in an [TS]

01:23:22   email to them but you know what i would [TS]

01:23:24   what I would say if one of them were [TS]

01:23:26   listening to podcasts [TS]

01:23:28   is it i like to choose my own vacation [TS]

01:23:32   yeah it's funny how that works yeah I [TS]

01:23:34   can I'm perfectly capable of of finding [TS]

01:23:37   a way to vacation with my family I don't [TS]

01:23:39   need that opportunity in lieu of money [TS]

01:23:43   but it's it's strange when you get it [TS]

01:23:47   and it can this came through this didn't [TS]

01:23:49   come directly from the chief creative [TS]

01:23:52   officer he knows a friend of mine who's [TS]

01:23:55   in the in the show business and sent it [TS]

01:23:59   to her and she sent it to me with her [TS]

01:24:02   own little like this sounds like if I [TS]

01:24:03   did I don't know if this is up your [TS]

01:24:05   alley but this sounds like a fun [TS]

01:24:06   opportunity right and so I'm not [TS]

01:24:09   replying to him i'm replying to her and [TS]

01:24:12   so I have now the potential to alienate [TS]

01:24:15   not just the guy but my friend because [TS]

01:24:19   he sent it to her like hey can you use [TS]

01:24:24   your God can you use your magic to God [TS]

01:24:26   rates not a public library you know the [TS]

01:24:29   thing is shame on them if you're you [TS]

01:24:31   know if you're a public library if your [TS]

01:24:33   macintosh user group like if your st. [TS]

01:24:35   Jude's you know you could write to John [TS]

01:24:38   Rother can say hey look what you want to [TS]

01:24:39   come here and play some music [TS]

01:24:40   we have any money but we'd love for you [TS]

01:24:42   to come yeah or you could say you know [TS]

01:24:44   basically pay for flight that's I don't [TS]

01:24:46   mind that i don't mind getting that from [TS]

01:24:47   somebody that admits that this is what [TS]

01:24:49   this is this is this what I don't like [TS]

01:24:51   is being made to feel like a turd [TS]

01:24:52   because you're trying to do a business [TS]

01:24:54   negotiation as though you're my [TS]

01:24:56   brother-in-law that's such fucking weak [TS]

01:24:59   sauce [TS]

01:25:00   well and that's the creative and threw [TS]

01:25:02   it through somebody else they've got an [TS]

01:25:03   inner interlocutor here who's now she's [TS]

01:25:05   put her up on the line [TS]

01:25:07   well and lamps if i write back and go [TS]

01:25:09   haha this sounds like a gig at you know [TS]

01:25:12   like she then then that's in our [TS]

01:25:15   relationship [TS]

01:25:17   yep that now she's like um well okay I [TS]

01:25:20   guess [TS]

01:25:21   sorry sorry I gave you this sorry I [TS]

01:25:24   forward this to you [TS]

01:25:26   it's like will i'm not mad at you i'm [TS]

01:25:29   just like like you and I should be on [TS]

01:25:31   the same page here like my eating a hate [TS]

01:25:34   being put in that position I really i [TS]

01:25:36   have come to resent the whole like can [TS]

01:25:39   you contact this person for me then [TS]

01:25:41   no offense but that whole idea of like [TS]

01:25:43   we're basically vouch for me a near [TS]

01:25:46   stranger to like taking the two times [TS]

01:25:48   your you communicate with this person is [TS]

01:25:50   kind of famous will you use one of those [TS]

01:25:52   two times to basically vouch for me even [TS]

01:25:54   though you hardly know me at all of [TS]

01:25:55   course i would i'm not an animal [TS]

01:25:57   yeah so gross well so anyway and I that [TS]

01:26:00   sounds well just sitting here talking [TS]

01:26:02   I you know I right now there's an email [TS]

01:26:04   pendant ok i sent i sent an email saying [TS]

01:26:07   yeah the more i read this the more it [TS]

01:26:09   sounds like they want me to perform well [TS]

01:26:11   which is a thing which is what i do [TS]

01:26:13   professionally [TS]

01:26:14   yeah the storytelling is actually also [TS]

01:26:18   my job that's not a that's not [TS]

01:26:20   professionals not friends sessional yeah [TS]

01:26:22   that's not a fun thing that I'm gonna [TS]

01:26:24   just like hey here's an idea that we had [TS]

01:26:27   have you ever considered telling stories [TS]

01:26:29   in between your song we think you'd be [TS]

01:26:30   great at that man perfect said she can [TS]

01:26:33   you bring your family i have thought of [TS]

01:26:34   that [TS]

01:26:35   so I said that back to her now I she has [TS]

01:26:37   not replied and maybe her lack of reply [TS]

01:26:41   is you know is an email she sent back to [TS]

01:26:44   him saying actually this doesn't seem [TS]

01:26:46   like it's going to work or maybe she's [TS]

01:26:48   sitting in her office like I'm too busy [TS]

01:26:50   to deal with this shit how did I get [TS]

01:26:51   stuck in between this but some of that [TS]

01:26:54   is rubbing off on me right she's now got [TS]

01:26:56   a she's she's got a feeling like I'm too [TS]

01:26:59   busy to deal with this roderick should [TS]

01:27:01   have just said yes or he should have [TS]

01:27:04   just said let me deal with this but he [TS]

01:27:06   replied to me instead of to them because [TS]

01:27:09   i sent it to him instead of giving his [TS]

01:27:12   email to them i don't know you know what [TS]

01:27:14   I mean like they're I do i do it sits [TS]

01:27:16   awkwardness all the way down and if she [TS]

01:27:18   doesn't reply [TS]

01:27:19   problem solved if she replies and says [TS]

01:27:21   this isn't i mean i should i should get [TS]

01:27:24   out of this or you know if you don't [TS]

01:27:25   want to do it reply to them i'm gonna be [TS]

01:27:27   like you I don't they never emailed me [TS]

01:27:29   so but you know it's it and if they do [TS]

01:27:34   i'm gonna say i would love to do this 10 [TS]

01:27:37   grand seems fair [TS]

01:27:38   beep boop that and then we'll see what [TS]

01:27:40   they say no we were thinking two hundred [TS]

01:27:42   fifty dollars [TS]

01:27:43   oh well you don't really you don't value [TS]

01:27:44   very highly me LOL [TS]

01:27:46   rewrite this email for you uh we want [TS]

01:27:49   you to stop everything that you're doing [TS]

01:27:51   in your life to go beyond a place on the [TS]

01:27:53   planet for the amount of time that we [TS]

01:27:54   declare and we have almost no budget is [TS]

01:27:57   that something you'd be super into yeah [TS]

01:27:58   yeah when this is important this is the [TS]

01:28:01   thing that we're doing because we're [TS]

01:28:03   gonna deduct the whole thing because [TS]

01:28:04   it's professional development for and [TS]

01:28:07   and our staff like this does qualify as [TS]

01:28:12   a perk for them because they work [TS]

01:28:15   60-hour weeks and we're taking them up [TS]

01:28:19   to a hotel for free that's nice so it [TS]

01:28:21   seems I probably within within our [TS]

01:28:24   company washroom like a real good deal [TS]

01:28:27   ever thought about being a storyteller [TS]

01:28:29   me [TS]

01:28:30   mm give it some thought I'm not sure I'd [TS]

01:28:33   be good at it huh [TS]

01:28:34   what are you doing this weekend uh you [TS]

01:28:37   know it's funny my weekend Cirque kind [TS]

01:28:39   of full up looking forward to bring your [TS]

01:28:42   guitar [TS]

01:28:47   [Music] [TS]

01:28:48   holy shit i can feel like it's my god [TS]

01:28:51   and my family [TS]

01:28:52   what oh my god [TS]