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0:00:14[Music]
0:00:20hello hi John hi Merlin hmm how's it
0:00:25going well hello Merlin Lou goodbye
0:00:32heart
0:00:33Marilyn some so in love with you come
0:00:39that's Roderick's clown and it's Daisy's
0:00:47mom down the stream and getting the
0:00:54cocoon
0:00:55did you watch the young ones when you're
0:00:57coming up i did have you heard the news
0:01:00uh there's a there's there's young ones
0:01:02news take it they break it
0:01:05were you aware that there was a fifth
0:01:08roommate uh it was yeah I was Sergei or
0:01:12whatever
0:01:13yeah let's say collection which they
0:01:15sell its funny I was just saying to a
0:01:16great interview with him know I kind of
0:01:19spoil this for you blow your mind but it
0:01:21wasn't the squirrel
0:01:22oh and the explaining to me and smiling
0:01:24talking tomatoes
0:01:25huh no there's a fifth roommate in some
0:01:30production stills or like promotional
0:01:31shots you'll see the four guys and then
0:01:34this one looks it looks kinda like
0:01:36cousin it where it's obviously like a
0:01:38woman with long hair with her hair
0:01:40combed over her face she makes an
0:01:43appearance in every episode of the first
0:01:46season and I've seen those shows a lot
0:01:50mark and I never saw her she's usually
0:01:52in the background and once you see it
0:01:54first of all it's incredibly wild that
0:01:56you never notice that she's there but
0:01:58she's also incredibly creepy because
0:02:01she's just like sitting like crouched in
0:02:03the background behind the couch with
0:02:04hair interface and it's it's gonna blow
0:02:07your mind when you see what
0:02:08yes yes oh yeah like seen that I've seen
0:02:12a whole bunch of time she just sitting
0:02:14there in the shadows and it's she looks
0:02:16like a Korean water ghost it's totally
0:02:17freaky ok
0:02:20yes that's something that Google am i
0:02:22right all right i'll send you they'll
0:02:24send me some some supporting footage
0:02:26ok but I heard about it I was like oh is
0:02:28this could be one of those things you
0:02:30know those things on the internet but
0:02:33yeah
0:02:33can internet fingers are gonna be a real
0:02:35thing I I got to be honest we got that
0:02:37was gonna be an internet thing but she's
0:02:39just she's just in the background
0:02:41she's in like some party there's a party
0:02:43scene where everybody's doing bong hits
0:02:44and she's at the party but other than
0:02:46that mostly I think she's intermittently
0:02:48occasionally there after the first as a
0:02:51series but the the first season
0:02:53she's in at least once and sometimes
0:02:56many times in every episode somewhere in
0:02:59the background not participating in the
0:03:01scene really maybe it's horrifying
0:03:04uh ok it's nice to find those kinds of
0:03:08things out yeah that's what they call an
0:03:10easter egg am i right that's right you
0:03:11got
0:03:12well done was done easter egg donor for
0:03:15change on tied with no I know a lot
0:03:19about things from 4chan this is the
0:03:22thing here's the thing about you a lot
0:03:25of people don't know is that there's a
0:03:26lot of people don't know about you and I
0:03:28like that I like that you you are you
0:03:31deploy personal information
0:03:34tactically you don't need to let
0:03:37everybody know you like no know a lot
0:03:38about a thing guy like this little bit
0:03:40TG dribble it dribbles John dribbles out
0:03:42at his pleasure you gotta dribble what I
0:03:45do feel
0:03:46did you just hear a sound that sounded
0:03:48like traffic noise in the nineteen
0:03:50seventies movie i think that was met my
0:03:53little cousin act like exhaling like oh
0:03:56maybe maybe being actually sound like Oh
0:03:59Jack it did for a brief second
0:04:01do you remember in the nineteen
0:04:03seventies where ya remember that traffic
0:04:06sounded a lot louder who the seventies
0:04:09yes it you only hear that volume of
0:04:12traffic like you're in manhattan or in
0:04:15some cases in my neighborhood if you
0:04:16ever like call me when I walk down the
0:04:17street it's it's the trains going by its
0:04:20deafening but growing up in the suburbs
0:04:22I always thought you're making this up
0:04:23there's no way traffic is this loud
0:04:25well a bit like so this is something
0:04:28that you know that the millenniums might
0:04:30not know and even even a Generation Xers
0:04:33might not remember but there was a time
0:04:36when there were no governor's on the
0:04:39loudness of car horns
0:04:41so all car horns that came out of you
0:04:44know Detroit in the sixties and
0:04:47seventies you hit your car horn it was
0:04:49like a boat horn oh yeah I under an old
0:04:53American an old American sedan like you
0:04:57would get an F sharp from hell
0:04:58like you really really heard it and matt
0:05:01and so in the city's this was before
0:05:04there were a lot of campaigns for
0:05:07traffic politeness
0:05:08yeah cars would pile up and they would
0:05:10just be honking honking honking that's
0:05:13the human condition right there isn't it
0:05:15was a deafening noise or unhappy
0:05:18there's nothing we can do about it so we
0:05:19might as well be unpleasant man mark
0:05:22lugar whatever and oh yeah and there are
0:05:28still cars the window go sure after
0:05:30jimmy carter and that's so later on it
0:05:34was such a problem cities were so loud
0:05:36that they actually passed ordinances and
0:05:38and and then furthermore laws that
0:05:42governed the the volume of a car horn so
0:05:46that your car could only be a certain
0:05:48number of Billy actually a minute you
0:05:50tell me this is a thing
0:05:51yeah they actually mommy stated the
0:05:54volume of car horns because it because
0:05:59noise pollution was such a problem the
0:06:00whole concept of noise pollution and you
0:06:03know and all the starters when people
0:06:05first started talking about that let me
0:06:07interrupt you but you know for a long
0:06:08time you can understand air pollution
0:06:09because it's hard to breathe
0:06:11you understand water pollution because
0:06:12we know we can drink the large breed
0:06:14water you can understand you don't want
0:06:15dioxin in the eggs like we understand
0:06:16all that but when people first I think
0:06:18it was the seventies equivalent of the
0:06:20word microaggressions when people first
0:06:22heard that they were like really now
0:06:23noise pollution
0:06:25yeah but it was it was so noticeable
0:06:27when they governed the volume of car
0:06:32horns like it made a tremendous impact
0:06:34on quality of life in cities like right
0:06:39away and
0:06:42and then they took other steps to get to
0:06:48mandate that your your city factory and
0:06:53your city you know your enterprises have
0:06:56also be conscious of the noise that they
0:06:58were producing and I think you know car
0:07:00mufflers were a lot louder than it it
0:07:04was it was kind of considered an element
0:07:07of of a cool car that it'd be really
0:07:10loud just sitting there idling you could
0:07:12buy cherry bombs you could buy thrush
0:07:13that's right goodbye glasspack people
0:07:16might vaguely remember seeing a woody
0:07:18the woodpecker type character on the
0:07:20back of a muscle car and thought what
0:07:21was that
0:07:22that means that's a person who pay to
0:07:24have their cargo pom-pom rubber-like so
0:07:28it was fucking loud you know in the city
0:07:31and everyone will be watching like an
0:07:33old nineteen seventies movie and then
0:07:36we'll just be a traffic scene where
0:07:38that's just sort of an interstitial
0:07:40moment in the film but i'll have this
0:07:44powerful recollection of like oh wow
0:07:46that's right it used to sound like that
0:07:48yep and now it does not sound like that
0:07:51it sounds like this and it's a major
0:07:55change like I had a type of have a sense
0:07:58memory or you know like a soul memory
0:08:01cloud town to town I get that I've had
0:08:05the soul memories means what's your
0:08:07biggest soul memory Merlin oh man i had
0:08:10one the other day
0:08:11oh I had one that came out of nowhere
0:08:13iíve spoken periodically about my
0:08:16various best friends in life and from
0:08:19different areas like for example a
0:08:20couple years ago I reconnected with my
0:08:22best friend from first grade on Twitter
0:08:25whoa who as it turns out is the
0:08:27executive producer of many television
0:08:29shows now really I just known as the guy
0:08:31he's the first that god bless you rob
0:08:33hope you're out there
0:08:34I'm not listening he's kinda busy you
0:08:36know you can hit TV shows but he's the
0:08:38first fella with which I competed to see
0:08:41how far we could pee from the urinal
0:08:43that's big
0:08:45the first guy you ever do that with you
0:08:47see what's not technically a sword fight
0:08:48and get into that until until college
0:08:49but but seeing how far you can step away
0:08:51from the urinal heavy stream still go so
0:08:54i connect with people sometimes
0:08:55friends but I had a one of my dear old
0:08:58friends was my friend John from MSA when
0:09:02I was 17 when I was 11 or 12 like almost
0:09:04every weekend we were at each others
0:09:06house like sleeping over and he got me
0:09:08into comics got he abused my first
0:09:10person I knew who was really into lord
0:09:11of the rings my uber nerd friend and at
0:09:14one point he got 2 i'm going somewhere
0:09:17with this at one point he got to move in
0:09:19upstairs to your house and his he was
0:09:23there for two seasons and their song
0:09:25always had his hair over his face live
0:09:27in the Attic by the way you by the way
0:09:29check your messages that Justin photos
0:09:31okay um so John got to move from his
0:09:35room on the main floor to up into the
0:09:36Attic which isn't you know fairly
0:09:38finished attic it didn't have a bathroom
0:09:39but it had too little of the big bedroom
0:09:42and then a little bedroom also he he was
0:09:44granted the right yeah he got a couple
0:09:46nice accommodations i can tell you about
0:09:48you you're not gonna believe what this
0:09:49guy got but so that was awesome because
0:09:51we got the only to do anything like bad
0:09:53we were like the ultimate good kids we
0:09:54SAT around and talked about the indie or
0:09:56whatever but like but what I really
0:09:58remember is that that's also where they
0:10:01put the cat box and I don't know if you
0:10:04remember cat boxes from the seventies
0:10:06but a cat box from the seventies I can
0:10:09just tell you that somebody who now has
0:10:10a cat with two boxes there damn side
0:10:12away from cat boxes today we were your
0:10:14counters to cat boxes kind of standard
0:10:16now yeah why is it standard is this some
0:10:20kind of this is some kind of thing i'm
0:10:22happy to circle back to it is a life
0:10:24hack
0:10:24it's kind of a life hack he has a cat
0:10:26that's a cataract yet you couldn't
0:10:28believe what happens in extra yeah look
0:10:30at that park is one amazing trick cat
0:10:34boxes could pollute 900 square feet of a
0:10:37thousand square foot apartment
0:10:39oh my goodness i don't know if it's what
0:10:41the cats were eating or drinking I don't
0:10:43know if they were remember their
0:10:44metabolism i think john siracusa would
0:10:46would call it adaptation or aurora blues
0:10:50evolution I'd like the i think it is the
0:10:52quality of litter i think it is the
0:10:54notarizing litoris non scooping nine and
0:10:58so like that the thing is I always did
0:11:01was I was in and this gets the second
0:11:03accommodation that John got later which
0:11:04I'd love to tell you about but I was
0:11:05sitting there just for some reason I
0:11:07think about how cool it was I get the
0:11:08John's house
0:11:09I'm a bag we go upstairs we will go up
0:11:11the steps and I just I suddenly got
0:11:13smacked in the face with this was all
0:11:15memory with this sense memory of that
0:11:18cat box and it was nineteen
0:11:20seventy-eight all over again I smelled
0:11:23it I smelled the accurate ammonia can
0:11:26smell so clearly it was its name printed
0:11:29on it it's the canonical cat box in my
0:11:31head is is john scott which was named
0:11:33Blackie they had a cat named blocking a
0:11:35dog Blackie ah understand the dog the
0:11:38dog was scared the cat will chase the
0:11:40dog was the doors course I'm not look
0:11:42good because you're living in a sitcom
0:11:43that done you know my dad's cat was
0:11:46named puppy
0:11:46oh yeah and then when puppy died young
0:11:50mother cat named the puppy 20 see that's
0:11:54a nice story about your dad so adorbs
0:11:57did you look at the photos yeah uh-huh I
0:12:00don't want to look at your going to
0:12:01sleep now
0:12:01I mean you don't sleep you're gonna
0:12:02sleep twice on the one hand you're gonna
0:12:04go holy shit i've watched that show you
0:12:06see each of those shows at least once
0:12:08oh yeah also that's weird but now look
0:12:10at that photo doesn't that look like
0:12:11something from like a japanese horror
0:12:12film
0:12:13well enough and the problem is when i
0:12:14first saw it I was like I don't think I
0:12:18had a soul memory but I did have some
0:12:21sense of like oh I knew that but I can't
0:12:25remember knowing it light like I don't I
0:12:29i think i noticed that person before but
0:12:32it would have been 1984 and I don't
0:12:35remember why or what
0:12:37because they never interact with her
0:12:39you're probably you're probably I mean
0:12:40our case it was usually eventually watch
0:12:42them on video but they were I think they
0:12:44want MTV they were all in the u.s. a few
0:12:47years after they were in England and you
0:12:51know we hopped up on mountain dew I
0:12:53should do as you as you do you know you
0:12:57do
0:12:57wang right now we're Guy Fieri for young
0:13:02once i have the other day on facebook
0:13:04there's a there are a couple of
0:13:06reporters let's call them reporters
0:13:08votes for the stranger alternative
0:13:10newspaper here in Seattle yeah who are a
0:13:13just young enough that they still well
0:13:15they're not young enough that they can
0:13:17with any right maintain the incredibly
0:13:23arrogant narrow-minded progressivism
0:13:27that they do at the you know like it's a
0:13:29they could if they were 20 you if you
0:13:31might find it believable but they're
0:13:33like 30 and writing the political
0:13:35columns for a local alternative paper
0:13:37and just like durable oh my god they're
0:13:39so awful and one of their surroundings
0:13:42so confident
0:13:43yeah sure you look at them when you're
0:13:45like I wish I was as confident about
0:13:47anything as you are about whatever you
0:13:49think this week
0:13:50yeah and I mean and there they literally
0:13:52like in the newspaper clench their fists
0:13:54and stamp their feet and go man
0:13:58and they're right you know there's some
0:14:00article in the in the paper the other
0:14:01day about how many homelessness is man
0:14:04people are bad people that wear ties
0:14:06irme and and Shawn Nelson posted on his
0:14:11Facebook page and I know for a fact that
0:14:14Sean this is a person as a co-worker of
0:14:17Sean's sean is very gracious about
0:14:19retuning things from his colleagues
0:14:21that's right that's what he does in his
0:14:23role as what is actual tip title there
0:14:25was an editor of he's like this big shot
0:14:28there is the life life editor you know
0:14:30whatever the liberal arts editor
0:14:31somebody posted this without comments
0:14:35and i think or with with the with an
0:14:38oblique comment such that ninety percent
0:14:41of the people could read it and and he
0:14:43would be doing that new yorker thing of
0:14:45like retweeting his colleagues but a few
0:14:47of us recognize that he was retweeting
0:14:49it without comment because he despises
0:14:50this person and a like personally
0:14:54despise them and despises it and and
0:14:56doesn't like working with him and all
0:14:58these and I read the article and it was
0:15:00just like me and so I remember road in
0:15:03the comment you know reading this guy's
0:15:06like reading Rick from the young ones
0:15:08journal
0:15:10haha fascist name and so the guy the
0:15:15writer then comments after me because of
0:15:20course right of course
0:15:21sure what is linkedin the article he's
0:15:24like I'm sorry I don't get that
0:15:26reference
0:15:27oh if only there was some way to find
0:15:28out what that reference was I know and
0:15:30so I so I think there are some places
0:15:32you could go and say Rick from the young
0:15:34ones in your mind out what that if only
0:15:36if only he probably doesn't have an
0:15:40Apple watch where you do that because an
0:15:43Apple watch is part of the you know as
0:15:45part of colonialism but in any case MIT
0:15:48so i replied oh don't worry about it
0:15:52it's a reference from the sixties and
0:15:55yeah I felt like that was that was
0:15:57exactly how many laughs that was worth
0:15:59like to has but it was at least I felt
0:16:01good about it its reference from the
0:16:03sixties go fuck yourself a break from
0:16:04the young ones I yes you were talking
0:16:07about finding your first grade friend
0:16:09who you tried to pee
0:16:12as far as you could it was a very gentle
0:16:15kind of competition it was almost a
0:16:17journey of self-discovery when men see
0:16:19how far from the urinal they can get
0:16:21it's not really a pissing contest is the
0:16:23ironic part it's more it's a form of
0:16:24bonding really it's not it's funny that
0:16:26it got that term pissing contest but it
0:16:28is really more way of saying let's see
0:16:30what we can do with this business when
0:16:31they're there
0:16:32I've been in there two different kinds
0:16:33of pissing contest i was in there one
0:16:35was with the Catholic priest on the
0:16:37outside wall of the fish bar in in
0:16:40Ketchum Idaho which it with David well
0:16:47regular listeners to show will recognize
0:16:49this as coming from the episode members
0:16:52of a lot of six but and then there was
0:16:56Peter no sec who was able who was taught
0:17:00by his father to be able to pee over his
0:17:03own shoulder that's tremendous which we
0:17:06made how many times you got that wrong
0:17:08he stuck with it
0:17:09yeah right and and Peter and his father
0:17:11I mean neither one of them were
0:17:12especially tall and I think that's an
0:17:15advantage when you're trying to be over
0:17:16your own shoulder but also a lot of
0:17:19stream control and we'd be out somewhere
0:17:22you know drinking
0:17:23beer and shooting guns and we have to go
0:17:26pee and we go over start peeing in the
0:17:28ditch or whatever and then Peter would
0:17:30he do this like pretty cool contortion
0:17:35you drop a shoulder lean back a little
0:17:36bit you know like penis in hand and then
0:17:42just the P would he would just start
0:17:45just directing it over his shoulder and
0:17:47could just
0:17:48oh my god it was a for an
0:17:50eighteen-year-old truly uncomfortable
0:17:53talent I would never have tried it you
0:17:56know there's no way i would would would
0:17:58be able to get away with this sunday
0:17:59night everything that's the kind of
0:18:01thing that if memory serves that's kind
0:18:03of thing that makes you what I will call
0:18:05a local legend
0:18:06yeah like you're not going to appear in
0:18:08journals probably you're not gonna be
0:18:09featured in national magazine but you're
0:18:12going to become that one guy that can do
0:18:13that thing we got to compete over
0:18:14shoulder and Peter had many many of
0:18:16these talents
0:18:17oh god bless him he was a he was a he
0:18:19certainly is remains a legend to me but
0:18:24I would you as you said that I realized
0:18:26that my childhood best friend was a kid
0:18:33named aaron kinnaman and over the years
0:18:37over the last 20 years I have searched
0:18:40for Aaron kinnaman innumerable times
0:18:42trying to have the same experience that
0:18:45you're having of like my first-grade
0:18:47friend that blah blah but I had a lot of
0:18:51experiences with aaron kinnaman who he's
0:18:54got the out there gotta be leaving a
0:18:55trail but he's not
0:18:57and the problem is I don't know how to
0:18:59spell kinnaman oh yeah like they're 14
0:19:03different possible spellings of cinnamon
0:19:05and I've tried them all and there's just
0:19:08nothing and it astonishes me to be in it
0:19:15in our contemporary life and have an
0:19:18errand kidman is not the only one there
0:19:20is not the only person from my past that
0:19:22I have tried to find on the internet
0:19:23that there's just nothing there's just
0:19:26not a single trace not even those those
0:19:29terrible like white pages that way we
0:19:31can find this person
0:19:33in in you know in this lesson such city
0:19:37yeah so how do you how do you live in
0:19:39the modern world and be completely
0:19:41invisible on the internet i know there
0:19:44are millions and millions billions let's
0:19:47say of people to pull it off but uh but
0:19:51it's still like as somebody who spent a
0:19:54lot of time on 1400 it's hard for me to
0:19:56imagine that even if I wanted to docs
0:19:59Aaron kinnaman I could
0:20:01oh that's frustrating it's very
0:20:03frustrating it's weird because everybody
0:20:05leaves a trail you know that's what when
0:20:07you see this is all like a little bit
0:20:08inside baseball here when somebody shows
0:20:10up on the scene and is being very
0:20:12provocative especially through the shape
0:20:14of being somebody in their twenties one
0:20:18thing you can do in this is not anything
0:20:20your dachshund but it's more like okay
0:20:22so this person purports to be somebody
0:20:23who's in the internet sphere and it's
0:20:26definitely not a stock pot but like you
0:20:28can go out you should be able to find
0:20:30something about them not something just
0:20:32embarrassing but everybody leaves a
0:20:35trail these days of just like some dumb
0:20:37thing you forgot about like you in a
0:20:39talent show you know there's something
0:20:41somewhere in when none of that stuff
0:20:43appears at all it feels weird feels
0:20:45weird and I'm not trying to be creepy
0:20:47but I'm just trying to say like this is
0:20:48just a fact of life that if you're
0:20:49somebody these days you know that's
0:20:51that's something that's a thing but it
0:20:53is strange somebody who's in their
0:20:54forties you can't find anything about
0:20:56them
0:20:57Yeah Yeah right like a like well I'm
0:21:02trying to I'm trying to think of i mean
0:21:03ok he doesn't have a linkedin profile he
0:21:06was smart
0:21:07yeah he doesn't have a facebook but like
0:21:10his kids never tagged him in anything
0:21:14yes those kids don't have a I mean it's
0:21:17just it's very frustrating me because
0:21:19there are a few people from my past that
0:21:21I would like to get in contact with and
0:21:24compare that to all the people i am in
0:21:26contact with from my past that I would
0:21:28rather not be in contact with it's just
0:21:31it's very frustrating
0:21:32uh-huh there's an idea to grow in
0:21:35college named latonia wheeler you should
0:21:38be able to find latonia wheeler you
0:21:39should be able to be care and somebody
0:21:41will now John I don't think so my
0:21:44challenge you in
0:21:46boy please don't challenge ok don't know
0:21:48no stop you were you I could hear you
0:21:51internet all sharpening your pencils are
0:21:54getting getting your yellow legal pads
0:21:57out stop get off your virtual pad stop
0:22:00it go back into in animating gifts
0:22:02John's a grandmother was married to a
0:22:08guy for a long time and he passed away
0:22:09and they decided that John's grandmother
0:22:12with a call when they called money she
0:22:13was awesome naughty was going to move in
0:22:15with them so John's dad who is a handy
0:22:17guy and was like a woodworker and a
0:22:20Michigan accent I'm sorry the machinist
0:22:21who worked at one of the great machining
0:22:22plants in Cincinnati all the great
0:22:24machine plants all the great machine
0:22:26play Cincinnati actually since the
0:22:27cincinnati milacron like they made the
0:22:29tools that they made the precision tools
0:22:31that made the precision tools and since
0:22:33any of the tools that made the pursuits
0:22:36of the workshop in it
0:22:37unfortunately that is really went away
0:22:39quite a while ago by all the tools the
0:22:42tools that you did know you need to make
0:22:45all the tools you never knew you needed
0:22:48oh it's in Cincinnati well it's a daddy
0:22:53making all the two easy text I got kind
0:22:57of time making tools and unpacking lots
0:23:01of tools making lots of to do be do be
0:23:04do that show makes no fucking sense
0:23:07without the original music oh my god
0:23:09it's so insane doing right but this is
0:23:12last train coming by the Doobie Brothers
0:23:14and it's like really good oh yeah the
0:23:20dx7 with some synthetic food want want
0:23:24want so John's dad is quick set himself
0:23:28to the task of going through their
0:23:29unfinished basement and making an
0:23:32apartment for her how great is this
0:23:33unfinished basement is an incredible
0:23:35album 2 3 4 and so John John's dad made
0:23:40her a beautiful apartment with like a
0:23:43full bath
0:23:45you know with the shower gels for he put
0:23:48in like I don't have the false floor
0:23:50oh you sent to get high like like German
0:23:52bearer bonds
0:23:53no not like a Al Capone false floor was
0:23:55not like a concrete floor is carpeted
0:23:56and whatnot OIC ok you had a big nap too
0:23:59I mean this is you know this is the
0:24:00seventies sure was napping so anyway
0:24:02long story short the made this and she
0:24:04lived there for a long time and she
0:24:05helped with the kids and she was awesome
0:24:07and then you know I'm Kenley enough she
0:24:09got married to another guy at our church
0:24:10i can just use sixties she was probably
0:24:1348 years old that's what's so
0:24:15frustrating
0:24:16she's already a great grandmother was a
0:24:18grandma 51 years only dipped his camels
0:24:22and makers mark uh and so then when she
0:24:26moved out with Jim Beall dr. Beale then
0:24:30John graduated from getting to be in the
0:24:33place upstairs to getting the entire
0:24:36finished basement she had his own
0:24:39apartment inside the house when he was
0:24:4111 so when he was eleven past this is
0:24:44this is this is when we were pals I went
0:24:46through John having the original room
0:24:47into John having the upstairs room into
0:24:50John graduating down into the room and a
0:24:52ping-pong table be all down there and it
0:24:55was against had his own little house and
0:24:57start inside of the house it was
0:24:59astonishing
0:25:00the thing was we were good kids we were
0:25:02good Christian kids like what we what
0:25:04was like the worst thing we did was
0:25:07watching other people do fireworks one
0:25:11of the kids was really injured a betty
0:25:13was burned he had to wear thing on his
0:25:15neck
0:25:16I this happened to command an apartment
0:25:18in about your own apartment isn't that
0:25:20kind of what this is john hodgman stream
0:25:22right well John Hodgman actually had
0:25:23like a whole half of the house that this
0:25:25but I actually had the same experience
0:25:28like my when my mom moved into her new
0:25:30house when I was in ninth grade right
0:25:34before ninth grade
0:25:35this was the period when she decided
0:25:38that I was so incorrigible that the way
0:25:39she was going to punish me was by making
0:25:41me go live with my father who and so she
0:25:43moved into the new house and there was a
0:25:45bedroom in there that was that should
0:25:46have been my bedroom but she turned it
0:25:48into like the fern room for the sewing
0:25:51room or something and she was like your
0:25:53gift wrapping your gift wrapping give
0:25:55the gift wrapping and that's exactly
0:25:58what it was right just like a bunch of
0:26:00someone with a giant fuck you to
0:26:01somebody in your family to have a room
0:26:03for wrapping presents
0:26:05it's a bedroom in the house and my mom
0:26:06basically climbed into it and said this
0:26:08is my dog crate
0:26:10actually just populated it with all a
0:26:13bunch of moms shit just to say like even
0:26:16if you do move in here and put posters
0:26:18of Porsches on the wall it's never gonna
0:26:20feel like yours because the first thing
0:26:22that was in here was a sewing machine
0:26:24and so I went to live with my dad you
0:26:28know I've told this story
0:26:29yeah but uh but then i moved into that
0:26:33room and then over the course of time
0:26:35like it was just clear that it was that
0:26:37wasn't i needed to be somewhat more
0:26:40sequestered and we had a large basement
0:26:43in this house footprint of an entire
0:26:45floor that was that was a sunken bayer I
0:26:52mean three of the four walls were just
0:26:54were just windowless walls and then the
0:26:57back wall was all windows and and a
0:27:01sliding glass door except it was
0:27:02underneath a covered porch that was on
0:27:05the second floor
0:27:06so basically this entire basement never
0:27:08saw the Sun there was daylight coming in
0:27:12from one wall but it was Alaska so in
0:27:16the wintertime that daylight amounted to
0:27:18nothing basically you know the sun came
0:27:21up at ten and went down at two so there
0:27:23was no it was dark and then in the style
0:27:26of the seven slate sixties early
0:27:29seventies when they built this place
0:27:30their decision on how to how to hack it
0:27:36out that basement was they panel the
0:27:38walls in unfinished rough sawn wood like
0:27:43a barn so the walls were barnwood which
0:27:49is as as you know is very reflective and
0:27:52really light and cheery know that was
0:27:55sarcasm
0:27:56it's not yeah and and then they built
0:27:59this year like it's like you're living
0:28:00in something that was meant to contain
0:28:02other number
0:28:03yeah right or meant to contain livestock
0:28:06of the end the kind of livestock that is
0:28:08invaluable and then the lighting they up
0:28:14along the walls they built this they
0:28:15built these sort of like how would you
0:28:20describe them
0:28:22they were cantilever little not little
0:28:27enormous light fixtures with that sort
0:28:31of bumpy plastic sheeting inside you
0:28:34know the sort of bumpy translucent
0:28:36sheets of a bumpy plastic I think I know
0:28:40yeah and then each light fixture had
0:28:43four light bulbs in it and there were
0:28:46ten of these light fixtures throughout
0:28:49the basement so 40 lightbulbs going to
0:28:56illuminate this basement and the boxes
0:28:58were also built out of barnwood the
0:29:01light boxes were built at a barn wood
0:29:02with this bumpy translucent plastic such
0:29:05that 40 lightbulbs going at once could
0:29:08not like produce almost no light it
0:29:11still felt like you were here in this
0:29:13sounds like a John McCain jail like you
0:29:16know you were in Batman's layer
0:29:18yeah if a Batman Slayer was made up of
0:29:20it was a barn if Batman's cables a barn
0:29:23something hard place to be cheerful it
0:29:25was pretty do me but it was built in
0:29:30this in the early settler late sixties
0:29:32let's say as a party space so there was
0:29:34a bar with like orange it was like an
0:29:38orange bar with the sink in a
0:29:40refrigerator and a and shelves for
0:29:43glasses and & boos and then around the
0:29:47back there was a sauna and up like a
0:29:52tanning bed in the olds in the old style
0:29:55which is a piece of foam on a on a bench
0:30:00also orange and then two light bulbs of
0:30:05this business pitiless sunlamps yeah
0:30:08tanning bulbs not that mana tanning bed
0:30:11with those neon bulbs but like like yeah
0:30:14red hot red Sun bulbs
0:30:18what were they called and what you're
0:30:19talking about your tanning lamps getting
0:30:21like you would get these things and they
0:30:23were getting credibly hot and they I
0:30:26mean I don't know much about the effects
0:30:29of light spectra on our cells and stuff
0:30:32but they're pretty cancer e yeah they
0:30:34produce
0:30:35ultraviolet light of you get burned real
0:30:37fast on those things one way or another
0:30:39and so there was a sauna and these UV
0:30:43bulbs and what it sounds like somebody's
0:30:48little uh suburban torture dungeon
0:30:50sounds well and to make it to you know
0:30:53took to finish out the other meetups
0:30:56hanging from the signal to finish out
0:30:58the decoration yeah there was a giant a
0:31:01doll sheep head out here hanging on the
0:31:04wall above the television so there was
0:31:07this like there's this and it was a big
0:31:10sheep that had been killed by my mom's
0:31:13boyfriend who's his that was his little
0:31:15bit of addition to the to the decor
0:31:18that's what he does which is just to
0:31:20keep huh
0:31:21so when you were down when you were down
0:31:22in the basement with all 40 lights
0:31:24burning reduce producing the
0:31:27illumination of like mm dusk dusk in a
0:31:34storm just get a sandstorm you would
0:31:38look up and this like dead sheep would
0:31:40be eyeballing you and no matter where
0:31:43you were in the room the sheep was
0:31:44looking at you and at a certain point my
0:31:48mom was like why don't you just live in
0:31:49the basement and so that they put a bed
0:31:54down there
0:31:55thankfully sort of close to the windows
0:31:57so that the so I had a sense of light
0:32:00but that was fine with me like I was a
0:32:03cave dweller anyway and i had my own I
0:32:06never used the sauna
0:32:07no one did it just became a place just
0:32:09to put the christmas wrapping and I
0:32:12never used the tanning bed and I never
0:32:17used the bar for anything but I had this
0:32:20enormous space that was mine that I
0:32:22could you know I could shoot bows and
0:32:24arrows down there it was really educate
0:32:27their knives you absolutely could throw
0:32:29anything like more anything I had a
0:32:3112-foot long bullwhip and I would sit
0:32:34down there and practice with until I
0:32:35until I hurt myself very badly and then
0:32:38I would hang it in the closet again and
0:32:39say just stop playing the bull weapon
0:32:42please leave it every time you do it you
0:32:44have a really good time for five minutes
0:32:46and then you laugh
0:32:47surrender yourself you're so close to
0:32:48needing an eyepatch you do not know how
0:32:50to use this thing stop playing with it
0:32:53and then I would you know I'd see it
0:32:55again I'd be like move this time I'm
0:32:56gonna get it this time gonna be like
0:32:58done time it's exactly would be able to
0:33:01take a gun out of somebody's hand with
0:33:03and they don't come back in and strikes
0:33:05out now
0:33:06Wow but it was a it was a good and a
0:33:12really good time down there we had
0:33:13that's where we put our IBM pc with 64k
0:33:16sweet a lot of K there's a lot of K i
0:33:21had had you know that's where I would go
0:33:23make out with my first girlfriend but
0:33:25you know I also was I wasn't the type of
0:33:27like nerdy good kid that would watch
0:33:30other people do fireworks but I wasn't
0:33:32down I wasn't having orgies down there
0:33:34anything now my mom one time was
0:33:38wondering why the humidifier didn't work
0:33:40anymore and she opened up the top of the
0:33:42dehumidifier and that didn't work
0:33:44because soup
0:33:45it was full of bottles of booze see she
0:33:48was like this was a good hiding place
0:33:51who you should have just done it just a
0:33:53little bit better so that didn't a for
0:33:55effort John did Miley got an a I didn't
0:33:57affect the operation of the machine was
0:34:00a great idea was the old-fashioned kind
0:34:01of a humidifier that actually LOL oh and
0:34:04up like a puddle of water in the bottom
0:34:06yeah you could sit your liquor bottles
0:34:09in there and keeping cool
0:34:10ah disco wow nice super disco how geez i
0:34:15was very into throwing sharp things i
0:34:17like darts I liked knives sometimes
0:34:20kitchen knives i would take all the
0:34:22kitchen knives and I would see I would
0:34:23try to get the right distance from the
0:34:24wall where we get like you know a couple
0:34:26of turns
0:34:27yeah that was a good feeling and
0:34:29eventually I got into you know throwing
0:34:31star sure construct sure you pick this
0:34:33up at the flea market on sharpen your
0:34:34sharpening yourself and now you could
0:34:37death or sure cans chicken chicken sir
0:34:39did you ever carry shuriken school only
0:34:42my wallet yeah you have loans of me
0:34:46throwing star that you carried in your
0:34:47wallet ya ya later I had a condom i
0:34:50never used but for a time I had the
0:34:52Asher can shape in my wallet and did you
0:34:54to deploy it to the point that no now
0:34:58the better ninjas do not keep their
0:35:01weapons inside of a pouch in their back
0:35:03pocket at least not the primary weapon
0:35:05that might be that might be the one for
0:35:06a few been searched you hope you still
0:35:07have that one like in your sock em but
0:35:10no no no I'm not sure who that was for
0:35:13did you do things like that was clearly
0:35:17for a girl
0:35:18yeah when you pulled your wallet out
0:35:20this is what I pulled out my adam and
0:35:22the ants velcro wall and Asher candidate
0:35:24know this all this here let me let me
0:35:26buy your snow cones through the air bog
0:35:30falls on the graft dog O'Hara yeah you
0:35:33know tell the Chinese character on it
0:35:35so did you think as you're walking
0:35:39around did you pretend as though you
0:35:44were a ninja that was not I was what i
0:35:48would later on get into functional ninja
0:35:50things like mostly running around in
0:35:51people's backyards with a sweatshirt
0:35:52over my head but functional ninja did
0:35:54you ever have the toe shoes
0:35:55no no I didn't go that far we had
0:35:57sweatshirts we had a rubber tracks and
0:35:59later actual nunchucks
0:36:01yeah and we would carry things that we
0:36:03imagined a suburban ninja would need one
0:36:06of the things that defines ninja ms
0:36:08sweatshirts ops you look you look at any
0:36:11yes any of the original literature most
0:36:14ninjas wear sweatshirts so we had that
0:36:16and mainly was just about sneaking
0:36:18around at that point yes I can't imagine
0:36:19how many retirees we scared by like
0:36:22running past the air conditioner at nine
0:36:23o'clock
0:36:23oh they probably weren't thinking ninjas
0:36:27this episode of Roderick on the line is
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0:39:01Casper for a great night sleep and for
0:39:03supporting rod on the lines they were
0:39:07probably not thinking ninjas
0:39:09no no I i know huh honey did you see
0:39:13that it's Roger it's just those ninjas
0:39:15again it's the ninjas we have nothing to
0:39:17fear no but see this is again this is a
0:39:19thing I add
0:39:20this has come up in some form or fashion
0:39:21before but you know it's a classic
0:39:23American male thing of like for example
0:39:24I never driven a car but i have seen
0:39:27lots of car driving I've seen fast car
0:39:29driving i'm pretty sure I'd be a good
0:39:31fast car driver I've seen so many fight
0:39:33scenes i bet i'd be pretty great fight
0:39:35sure and in this case like I've seen
0:39:37stealthy my ninjas
0:39:38I certainly if there's anything in my
0:39:41grasp I could be a stealthy ninja i to
0:39:43myself stealthy ninja
0:39:44yes yes I spent a lot of time there were
0:39:48things that Sidewalk home from school
0:39:50and I spent a lot of time fantasizing
0:39:52during the walk home you had your key on
0:39:54a red string happy on red string walking
0:39:57home from school and part of the reason
0:39:58I walked home from school I mean there
0:39:59was a bus but you take the bus and then
0:40:02what would you do you just be home and I
0:40:05wasn't somebody that went home and read
0:40:07comic books or play video games yet get
0:40:09a special projects
0:40:10yeah I would sit at home and just I
0:40:12would stare at the wall if I was at home
0:40:13so why not walk home
0:40:15it would take me an hour or so to walk
0:40:16and I would fantasize the entire way
0:40:19home just just in a state of total dream
0:40:22place right where the the actual like I
0:40:26was perceiving the world outside i was
0:40:28looking at things also but in my mind it
0:40:31was I was far far away and early on one
0:40:35of the things I one of my fantasies was
0:40:41that i lived in a Richie Rich world how
0:40:46I've had that fantasy where I was a very
0:40:49wealthy boy and and I had a bunch of
0:40:52adult things that were scaled-down Allah
0:40:55Bugsy Malone
0:40:58alright so i had a rolls-royce but it
0:41:03was a half-scale rolls-royce silver
0:41:05shadow but it was a half-scale
0:41:07rolls-royce silver shadow so rather than
0:41:09having to walk home I would drive myself
0:41:12home in my imaginarium in my half-size
0:41:16rolls-royce silver shadow now it i would
0:41:20I i'm picturing myself driving this
0:41:22rolls-royce silver shadow on the bike
0:41:24paths of anchorage alaska right out the
0:41:26fantasy doesn't extend to that I'm
0:41:28living in Monaco that's not possible
0:41:31it's not plausible but it's been hearing
0:41:33that
0:41:33scenario you can very easily place that
0:41:35there's all kinds of ways for young
0:41:37person to feel fancy in their head
0:41:39that's right that seems weirdly possible
0:41:41when I see a rolls-royce silver shadow
0:41:43on the road now and most of them only
0:41:45exist as wedding cars anymore but I
0:41:49still picture myself in it and picture
0:41:51both me and the car is being about like
0:41:55three quarter scale i'd love to see that
0:41:56but then I got introduced to lord of the
0:42:00rings as we all do about you know I
0:42:03think even now if you get introduced to
0:42:05lord rings for the first time it
0:42:07immediately transported in 1980 least
0:42:10that's how intelligent like I mean in
0:42:13John's case and you know I i we talking
0:42:15about here we talked about talked about
0:42:16for siracusa it sounds like it's
0:42:18something that somehow most guys who
0:42:22didn't even self identifies a geek or
0:42:23whatever but you discover usually around
0:42:25middle school junior high like late late
0:42:27elementary school middle school junior I
0:42:29that right I'm seventh grade for me and
0:42:32then I was then the concept of all of
0:42:37that and and and lower the Rings and D&D
0:42:40came together for me as as they should
0:42:43as a package deal and then I spent the
0:42:45entire time walking home from school
0:42:46contouring spells
0:42:48oh this is the conjuring era was
0:42:51conjuring spills who misses this is this
0:42:53along that is I'm sorry to interrupt but
0:42:55was later on you and attempt to actually
0:42:57contour that's a little later right
0:42:59little later yeah this was just the
0:43:00beginning of like oh and also also like
0:43:04when I was little kid and people in
0:43:07seattle talked about underground Seattle
0:43:09which is a neighborhood in the on the
0:43:11first avenue that they raised the level
0:43:15of the streets at one point during one
0:43:17of their many redevelopment of downtown
0:43:20and in raising the level of the streets
0:43:22they just they just covered over the
0:43:24first floor of shops and stuff downtown
0:43:28and just decided that now the second
0:43:31floor of buildings were going to be the
0:43:32first floor they get that in Chicago
0:43:34know when they when they wanted to what
0:43:36they had like plumbing or they added
0:43:38like a whole like septic or sewer system
0:43:41and they raised Chicago like a story
0:43:42they raise it up residence in Anchorage
0:43:45during the 64 earthquake and other
0:43:46he's actually fell a story so that they
0:43:49had to authenticate you know they call
0:43:52pancaking here yeah that's not good
0:43:53pancakes bad but the buildings were
0:43:55destroyed they just dropped one story
0:43:57that so the front door of the building
0:43:59alex mica yeah yeah long and they just
0:44:02cut new doors like pretty crazy but
0:44:06people in seattle talk about underground
0:44:08seattle when I was six or seven years
0:44:09old I imagine that that meant that any
0:44:11time you dug in the ground anywhere in
0:44:14Seattle there was a city under there was
0:44:16like a second Seattle underneath where
0:44:18you are you just know how to get there
0:44:19if you know how to get there we duck who
0:44:21does a lot of holes looking for the roof
0:44:24lines of underground seattle but by the
0:44:28time I was in junior high of course I
0:44:30knew there weren't city's underground
0:44:31but I did suspect there might be
0:44:35dungeons room right if you could just
0:44:37find the entrance to the dungeons that
0:44:40were I mean I'd sound like a dumb
0:44:42seventh-grader I wasn't you don't but I
0:44:44mean think about it like he got to the
0:44:45point where you have a city that can
0:44:47sustain she even to of chucky cheese
0:44:51restaurant you have to imagine that
0:44:53somebody had the forethought to put a
0:44:54dungeon in like there's so many many
0:44:56cool things that we hopefully were made
0:44:58i'm guessing probably in the eighteen
0:44:59hundreds that need attention right well
0:45:02but there weren't there
0:45:031800 didn't play in Anchorage because
0:45:06there was no 1800 language okay but you
0:45:09know what I still think about my own
0:45:10house and how expensive it would be to
0:45:12retro actively install a dungeon or you
0:45:15didn't want titles for awhile tunnels in
0:45:17dungeons and like all my uncle I don't
0:45:19wanna talk about it anymore understand
0:45:20but uh you know i'm not talking about
0:45:22shipping containers be ready in the
0:45:24desert dungeon I'm talking about like
0:45:25stonewalled dunno you're not like that
0:45:28like 12 year old girl in a reader's
0:45:29digest article not know about that kind
0:45:31of thing not back with a pipe marina
0:45:35heroin know that is harrowing I don't
0:45:37think about that you make a sexy
0:45:39attention haha there be a second
0:45:42component today let there be other would
0:45:44be you know there be a derby safes down
0:45:47there and stuff you know it be full US
0:45:49agency say it would be safe it would
0:45:51probably be comfortable
0:45:52well no but I mean safe there were no
0:45:54I'm sorry I mean I might have a problem
0:45:56sometimes of using words but it would
0:45:58probably be it would be a a secure
0:46:00location
0:46:01that's right better put and I bet you
0:46:02could make it comfortable i would be
0:46:04very can be made a barn barn number I'd
0:46:06be so comfortable down there really i
0:46:08would everyone so I am doing is if you
0:46:10ring the doorbell it would flash a light
0:46:12downstairs and then I would then i'd go
0:46:14on the closed-circuit TV and I would
0:46:16look at you and be decided to pull the
0:46:18track towards redhead make a decision
0:46:20then but I never had any ninja I had
0:46:26never had any affection for ninja dhum
0:46:28and I don't know whether it's because I
0:46:31i was introduced to Bruce leave the same
0:46:33way that other people were like you
0:46:34certainly he was around in my childhood
0:46:37all the sort of come from fighting was
0:46:39all there
0:46:40it just never I never identified I can
0:46:42tell you why this work
0:46:44so here we're talking about the very
0:46:45early eighties ninjas were still cool
0:46:48ninjas were still a new-ish idea i think
0:46:51america got burned out on ninjas there's
0:46:53too many fucking ninjas today they're
0:46:55were they're moving they're literally
0:46:57they're ruining TV shows that are on TV
0:46:58right now there's too many inches
0:47:00you're telling me they're ninjas on TV
0:47:01right now they're ruining TV shows
0:47:03here's the thing ninja I mean there's
0:47:05people who have like I think is
0:47:06published theories about this the more
0:47:08ninjas that you add to something less
0:47:09interesting it gets you need one ninja
0:47:11that you almost never see that's cool
0:47:14it's sort of like the fifth roommate get
0:47:16off tonight I'm look at this photo right
0:47:17now is completely freaking your roommate
0:47:19is a ninja your TV shows more interested
0:47:21in this is why this is why i sought i
0:47:24would want to be a monk like monks were
0:47:26the coolest monk shout like well like
0:47:28you know like in D&D like the character
0:47:30class because among could do stuff they
0:47:32had the vibrating palm they could go
0:47:33down I think they could fall four feet
0:47:35per level remember what's what good is
0:47:38vibrating bomb right you don't get the
0:47:41vibe
0:47:41well alright easy but you can do stuff
0:47:44you can do all kinds of stuff it was it
0:47:46was sort of like what was it was like it
0:47:48was part lot of fighter maybe some
0:47:50clerical there's a lot of dexterity and
0:47:52one of the cool thing was if memory
0:47:54serves forgive me please don't hit me on
0:47:55this I'm pretty sure you could fall four
0:47:57feet per level by like bouncing off the
0:48:00wall
0:48:01nuttin monks were the coolest that
0:48:04doesn't seem that cool
0:48:05why would I want cool i want to fall
0:48:07four feet 44 level if I could cast if I
0:48:11could come
0:48:11norb mmm i think im gonna rest it's like
0:48:14here's you cannot rest until you're
0:48:16resting within its gotta got like a big
0:48:18trouble in little china style electric
0:48:20or hovering above his hand and the other
0:48:22guy's palm is vibrating all right and
0:48:24he's falling it doesn't have the same
0:48:25visual appeal
0:48:26I I admit but it just seems like you
0:48:29guys on the campaign was always having
0:48:31to take a nap
0:48:32especially the lower level there's a lot
0:48:33of napping for the magic people but i'm
0:48:36not opposed to have not posted napping
0:48:37as long as there's somebody watching
0:48:38over so you're you're walking i would
0:48:40also like at some point to get back to
0:48:42secret spaces because as recently as
0:48:43last night I had a dream about a secret
0:48:45space i dream about them constantly I
0:48:46think about secret spaces a lot but you
0:48:49were walking down the path the bike path
0:48:52in your in your three quarter size of
0:48:54rolls-royce little eventually you were
0:48:57thinking about conjuring things I was
0:49:00as Ben you know that this is the thing
0:49:04about junior high
0:49:05you're not thinking at all the way
0:49:07through but I was pretty sure that was
0:49:10the way to be successful with girls
0:49:12if i could i mean think about it I i
0:49:15like you i still continue not thinking
0:49:18all the way through
0:49:18you don't have to sell me on this maybe
0:49:20i'm standing on all school dance
0:49:22yeah on come one guy does the fucking
0:49:24car trick the cars just keep coming out
0:49:26of his sleeves that's pretty cool where
0:49:28these cars coming back and he's gonna
0:49:29card rid of the cards and that's exactly
0:49:31what i mean i'm leaning against the wall
0:49:33and one cardini here comes here comes
0:49:36the devos working in a coal mine and I
0:49:40like Johnson but John make that over the
0:49:43cool wall go out on the dance floor
0:49:47am I going down and I'm my god i wish i
0:49:51could go dance with the girls more heart
0:49:53if I was over there just like oh by the
0:49:56way
0:49:57wow wow like who would be dancing with
0:50:01these guys
0:50:02nobody better on your own private divo
0:50:05ii like people like people be taking
0:50:07know and then we're all these cards
0:50:09coming from and pretty soon I'd be like
0:50:11the king of God be between the scene
0:50:13fans and fans just coming obviously he
0:50:16can't get rid of them the one part i
0:50:18check it out his name's cardini I'd yeah
0:50:20people are gonna know what we're talking
0:50:21about because they don't hear our
0:50:23private conversations are talking about
0:50:24the the great the Great card artist
0:50:27cardini I go to throw my cigarette away
0:50:29there's a cigarette in my mouth is a
0:50:30cigarette again and then what these cars
0:50:32keeps a perfect fan of cards is produced
0:50:35he can't get rid of the cards they just
0:50:36keep coming out rozum away and then
0:50:39they're back again you know he was
0:50:40married to that lady
0:50:41yes I didn't know that yeah and she wore
0:50:45a bellhop outfit she tempted like it if
0:50:48i can find that I didn't see that when i
0:50:49was 12 i can find one that will wear
0:50:51bellhop out but I be married service who
0:50:57would stand there with the with the
0:50:58wastebasket why through cards into it i
0:51:01get rid of these cars are never certain
0:51:02images there is a mile
0:51:05she just has a like a chest higher smile
0:51:07and then
0:51:08just picking up to 10 with the cool
0:51:09parties should never get sick of it
0:51:10she's still think you're so interesting
0:51:12because of your card sleeves
0:51:13yep what whop omn orb close this is also
0:51:17a particular story this is another boy
0:51:19pattern is that like I'm pretty sure
0:51:21there's this one thing that if I got
0:51:23really good at this
0:51:24everything would fall in place maybe
0:51:26something that's an engine for some
0:51:27people that's an orb what is why there
0:51:29are guitar player yeah snatching the
0:51:31coins mention the coins off your elbow
0:51:33right there's so many things out there
0:51:34we are like if I could just master this
0:51:36one thing i do this in mind Frank was
0:51:38walking around this tennis racket
0:51:39I get out there I produce some cards out
0:51:41of my sleeve and get more tail than
0:51:43Sinatra did you did you ever do any
0:51:45cigarette tricks my cigarette tricks
0:51:47were very modest i would do match tricks
0:51:51I could do some match tricks I could do
0:51:53some very minor like first-level zippo
0:51:57tricks have almost first-level zippo
0:51:59tricks are good just just the whole like
0:52:01this thing look like your fingers and
0:52:02you open it with the thing you know oh
0:52:04yeah this snap listen two fingers on
0:52:06making I'm making sort of like a bowling
0:52:08ball gesture with my finger your thumbs
0:52:10on the bottom zippo and you you make it
0:52:12pop it and make that noise you kind of
0:52:13smell good and they smell good
0:52:15well you know I curators before a long
0:52:16time travel collection that's one of the
0:52:18few collections I've ever had
0:52:19oh you have like Vietnam suppose no i
0:52:22didn't have like death suppose or
0:52:24anything i have a Kiwanis mo had a
0:52:25Chesterfield cigarettes ippo water's
0:52:28ripple i told you that i want a story
0:52:31yeah you do but it's I'm gonna hear when
0:52:33you're ready to become a man you let me
0:52:35know is what the guy said to me when he
0:52:37saw Michael wanna zippo while when
0:52:40you're ready to become a male come well
0:52:42with you know I've discovered over the
0:52:44course of this program that we have a
0:52:46lot of listeners who are actually
0:52:48Mason's kindly allowed to tell us that
0:52:52John I think they are because they as
0:52:54they have reminded me many many times
0:52:55there is not admitting the Masonic a
0:52:59brotherhood is not actually a secret
0:53:02organization they are they are more than
0:53:05happy to explain almost everything about
0:53:08Mason durham Wow with the addenda that
0:53:11i'm not actually use their last name
0:53:13when referring to them it's like naaa
0:53:15oh well it's just like they don't want
0:53:17to hear from somebody else in their
0:53:19Lodge
0:53:20Oh
0:53:21ok it's been a little bit like when
0:53:23you're reporting you got on record you
0:53:25got off the record you got background
0:53:27and you got deep background on the
0:53:28record is you can say that John Roderick
0:53:30said this
0:53:31yeah like off the record is you can say
0:53:33somebody who is highly or like you can
0:53:35use this information but you can't say
0:53:37who did it
0:53:38background I think you can only say
0:53:40stuff like somebody highly placed in the
0:53:41broader group said this deep background
0:53:44is you can only use this information to
0:53:46find other information i'm very
0:53:47interested in deep background
0:53:48yeah deep background is good I don't
0:53:50happen as far as the Masons that I know
0:53:53which is not not a small handful of
0:53:57Mason's distributed across the country
0:54:00in the world who contact me every time
0:54:03we talk about a syndrome boy and say as
0:54:08I've said before we are not a secret
0:54:11organization I'd be happy to walk you
0:54:12through the steps let me explain again
0:54:15things that you can google about our
0:54:19fraternal organization that those many
0:54:22helps the service it they always point
0:54:24to the service organization part and the
0:54:27fact that they wear a elaborate costumes
0:54:31is just part of the fun
0:54:32schreiner is never taller than when he
0:54:33Stoops to help a crippled child
0:54:35wow I don't know or when he pleased to
0:54:37have that printed on small car
0:54:39ok ok believe me i would see those
0:54:41nobody i would see those in the I would
0:54:43look pretty smart driving around one of
0:54:45those i wonder if any of our listeners
0:54:47Shriners these even still exists right
0:54:50this is the thing I'm sure it exists but
0:54:52like I said I time so I still think of
0:54:55that as something my grandfather is he
0:54:56was a freemason
0:54:58yeah and he was a Shriner he was in
0:54:59schools and scottish rite he's scottish
0:55:01rite and he was a Shriner and he was
0:55:04pretty into it
0:55:06oh yeah there's one about as he had the
0:55:08bolo tie he had it going on
0:55:09you didn't have the small car though not
0:55:11that I ever saw he passed when I was
0:55:13fairly young I there might have been a
0:55:14car that was in the estate I just never
0:55:15saw it I thought I think when you pass
0:55:17as a Shriner I think the car is it sent
0:55:20to the next young guy who killed your
0:55:21time I think buried in the car
0:55:23actually I comically my grandfather's
0:55:28funeral was grotesque because first of
0:55:30all they did a pretty crap job on his
0:55:32makeup so so he looked like he'd
0:55:34had some kind of like like bad plastic
0:55:37surgery and then he had the scottish
0:55:39rite funeral so they put all this stuff
0:55:41in the coffin we were there we got to
0:55:42see the stuff they put in the coffin
0:55:44there's a whole thing that give you an
0:55:44apron and gave me a magic wand maybe
0:55:47some exploding cigarettes i'm not sure
0:55:48but there's a whole bunch of stuff they
0:55:50put in the casket with you to go to your
0:55:51reward
0:55:52tell me more about that yeah that's all
0:55:55I don't remember super was pretty sad
0:55:56when he died
0:55:57what was the what was the number one
0:56:00thing you saw in his casket that may do
0:56:03ok so far it's crazy i was 12 but also i
0:56:07don't think we were actively encouraged
0:56:09to be super involved in that part of it
0:56:11it was like they got the last bite at
0:56:12the Apple before they close the lid and
0:56:14so I don't know what went in there there
0:56:16there could i I don't think there's a
0:56:17whole car but they you know it's like
0:56:19they were pending might imagine locks
0:56:21they were pounding their seal wings into
0:56:23his coffin
0:56:24mmm yeah so he was pretty into that
0:56:30yeah I i assume that it's still around i
0:56:33guess you're gonna find out people you
0:56:35can write a letter to John if you would
0:56:36like to talk about friends and no no I
0:56:39know I know plenty about Freemasonry and
0:56:41I have a good sense of the members of
0:56:43our community Mason is blind extend our
0:56:46extended family includes many Mason's
0:56:48I've been school some momentum as the
0:56:50razor Mason's but the oh and we made it
0:56:54we made a terrible mistake about about
0:56:56the knights of columbus and that I was
0:56:58corrected on that very intelligently I
0:57:01didn't but well no you didn't but I did
0:57:03there there there there a Catholic group
0:57:05there's nothing lead over to you and
0:57:07here's the problem you and I sometimes
0:57:09understanding very understand something
0:57:10very well in life and in our head and
0:57:13then somehow we each manage to say the
0:57:15exact opposite of what the true thing is
0:57:17that we improving though we know better
0:57:18because we have a kind of intellectual
0:57:21dyslexia
0:57:22yes and yes and or and yes I know but
0:57:26but so far i have never been Shriners
0:57:30planed and I wasn't bad so I don't want
0:57:33to hear about masonry again because I'm
0:57:36very up on it but i do want to hear
0:57:38about Shriners Frank yes is my guess is
0:57:42i think it is like all these groups it
0:57:44is is presented as a public service
0:57:46organization which is smart
0:57:48I think I think you have to be
0:57:49introduced to the group like sponsored
0:57:51if you like again like AAA yeah and then
0:57:54then you probably do a lot of scut work
0:57:55for a while
0:57:56you gotta like I don't know a couple
0:57:58cigars wash cars i bet there stuff where
0:58:01there's a hazing period maybe I know
0:58:02there's a lot of spanking and they act
0:58:04like the blindfold jacqueline three off
0:58:05a cliff that's the Masons right
0:58:07my mom is banking my mom well here's
0:58:11what my mom said my mom so here my mom
0:58:15loves all people to the same degree
0:58:18which is to say not very much
0:58:20yeah but she both my mom and my dad I've
0:58:23said this before
0:58:25neither one of them they were they were
0:58:26the two least racist people I've ever
0:58:28met in my life they have no they had no
0:58:30a they saw no color at a time when that
0:58:33was very unusual but my mom was racist
0:58:38against two groups of people hillbillies
0:58:41we've talked about this a lot she's
0:58:43still races to conceal Billy's liquid
0:58:46supposed to eat it because well that's
0:58:49how she described that's where she's
0:58:51from yeah she's from she's like you
0:58:54think you and you don't know from rural
0:58:55ohio and 1604 see you don't know for
0:58:58ohio and if you cross the if you cross
0:59:01the border of of one County and go into
0:59:04the other County you're now in hillbilly
0:59:06country and she hates them
0:59:07she hates them shapes them so
0:59:09passionately she says things all the
0:59:11time like we never should've bought the
0:59:14Civil War we should let the South secede
0:59:16and they would be a third world country
0:59:17we would destroy them in war and I'm
0:59:19like okay mom
0:59:21it's a term that she still uses
0:59:23disparagingly about look at those
0:59:24hillbilly's over there
0:59:26I know she won't do that but like Trump
0:59:29culture of she's just like we should let
0:59:32them succeed and then we would destroy
0:59:34them in war not like later we should let
0:59:37them build their own economy we should
0:59:39have let them keep their evil practice
0:59:41it's good it's like Muhammad Ali in the
0:59:42rope-a-dope be like let them wear
0:59:43themselves out and then BOOM
0:59:45well yeah she was like that whole that
0:59:47whole week we fought the war the wrong
0:59:48time I guess it's a philosophy like the
0:59:51whole states rights garbage and keep the
0:59:54Union together we should have ignored
0:59:56that whole thing and fought the actual
0:59:58war about slavery
0:59:59[Music]
0:59:59[Music]
1:00:00later and then defeated the south and
1:00:03salted the earth
1:00:04I'm like hey hey hey hey Sherman's march
1:00:07like cool your jets it like this is not
1:00:11a thing that we still talk about like oh
1:00:13it's a thing I still talk about so she
1:00:15doesn't so she's raced against him
1:00:16because she's like the opposite of a way
1:00:18of Faulkner character sheets so she's
1:00:22forgotten but she's not forgotten
1:00:24something very different
1:00:25no she's so north and she says things
1:00:27all the time like this is this is the
1:00:29crazy thing like she sometimes talks
1:00:31about Bonaparte like the Frenchman yeah
1:00:36Napoleon we all call them we all called
1:00:38him Napoleon but she still talks about
1:00:40Bonaparte in a way that has been
1:00:44transmitted through the generations of
1:00:47her family from a time when they over
1:00:51when he was a living person and they had
1:00:54a nickname for him and he represented a
1:00:56certain idea of like internationalism
1:01:01aunty aunty British Empire ism like
1:01:06she'll chill refer to Bonaparte wow i'm
1:01:09like punk apart the way like people in
1:01:12you know the early 20th century would
1:01:14refer to Germans the Huns well yeah or
1:01:16like it had this implication of not just
1:01:18identifying your ethnic or geographic
1:01:20background but something about your
1:01:21character
1:01:22it's absolutely about his character and
1:01:24she she refers to him familiar
1:01:26familiarly as though we would say like
1:01:29Oh Bush you know or bush to or whatever
1:01:32she's like well Bonaparte would have
1:01:34blah blah blah
1:01:35Wow Bonaparte on apart but a so she has
1:01:39several of those things and some of them
1:01:41seem like they have been translated
1:01:43through the quicker side of her family
1:01:44from like Calvinist x small small
1:01:51prejudices against a against like people
1:01:56of different sexes like not against
1:01:58people of different nationalities but
1:01:59you know it's like there's a doctrinaire
1:02:01like this day I know you're talking
1:02:02about like the in it's almost like the
1:02:04way that people talk about nothing all
1:02:07garrison keillor here but like you know
1:02:08Lutheran's vs Presbyterians vs however
1:02:12like you'd like
1:02:13most people today who are let's say a
1:02:15religious or non-religious ago that is
1:02:18so weird that sounds like the butter
1:02:20battle book like what we talked about
1:02:22these are non-existent distinctions
1:02:23they're all just Jesus people like oh no
1:02:25my mom has very very strong or idea the
1:02:28Eucharist is flatly wrong
1:02:30yeah every single different Protestant
1:02:32denomination my mom could make very
1:02:34sweeping generalizations about their can
1:02:36we would like that about the Baptist a
1:02:37little bit
1:02:38oh sure everybody was the Battle didn't
1:02:40have to seem pretty extreme actually
1:02:42turns out my friend John went back to
1:02:43school for a while there was no dancing
1:02:46there's no music and it wasn't like we
1:02:48did a lot of dancing at the christian
1:02:49church but the Baptist seeing the little
1:02:52bit and also the Baptist were famous no
1:02:53offense to the Baptist's out there but
1:02:55the passes are kind of famously
1:02:56evangelical at a time before that became
1:03:00a thing like it like in the eighties you
1:03:02got used to everybody being like
1:03:04evangelical in your face but the Baptist
1:03:05if you'd like to show you come to my
1:03:07church you know you go to window
1:03:08Christian Church you're going to go to
1:03:10VBS you're gonna make some shit out of
1:03:11popsicle sticks you're gonna sing an
1:03:13awesome song in a major key you go and
1:03:15Barry's gonna be like hey come back
1:03:16anytime you go to the Baptist Church and
1:03:18like you know you know you're Catholic
1:03:19I'm going to hell right like you you
1:03:21don't you understand like you
1:03:23nine-year-old that you're gonna have
1:03:24some problems in the afterlife
1:03:26The Liberator the big Hollywood fat cats
1:03:28these Vatican fat cats are not telling
1:03:29you about
1:03:30it's that was the Moral Majority the
1:03:32rise of the moral authority believe
1:03:33they're well i mean i remember that is
1:03:36being early eighties because they
1:03:37definitely was making a nineteen eighty
1:03:39i think is around the time that that
1:03:41really kicked in yeah and before that
1:03:43yes mom like mom would say things about
1:03:45Baptist that made it sound like they
1:03:47were eating dirt like the old Hill
1:03:49people
1:03:50yeah they lived on Raw crawdad that's
1:03:52when there was no crime at it states and
1:03:56and and they would fight with banjos or
1:03:58whatever whatever but but then all of a
1:04:03sudden factors were everywhere and this
1:04:05could be harder easy use this then I
1:04:06don't think miss net now I think I can't
1:04:10mean an indie rocker without finding out
1:04:12their southern baptist right they are
1:04:15like a very large part portion of
1:04:17American and you know they started off
1:04:19for 20 years like hothouse flowers and
1:04:20then we started releasing them i think
1:04:22in the mid-2000s yeah there was that
1:04:24moment when a Christian rock
1:04:26two different directions on one
1:04:27direction it was the direction of like
1:04:30Guy Fieri rock where people had were
1:04:32wearing bowling shirts with flames on
1:04:33them and they were like Jesus my arm and
1:04:38then the other Christian rock which is
1:04:40like man bun rock where everybody had a
1:04:42tattoos of doves on their chests and
1:04:47we're playing the glockenspiel very
1:04:48aggressively pursue and it's like whoa
1:04:51that's where we're finding Jesus that
1:04:53way to there's a lot of different
1:04:55Jesus's and I don't know which one I
1:04:58don't know which kind of rock to follow
1:04:59uh-huh up but you'll tell it like a
1:05:02footprint on the radio
1:05:04my wife better than me my wife can clock
1:05:06it will be some kind of song that comes
1:05:08on that sounds pretty indie rock and
1:05:09should be returned office Christian rock
1:05:10was like yeah come on this is just a
1:05:12gentle indie-rock I feel like there's a
1:05:14setting on the compressors at the
1:05:17mastering studio who which is like let's
1:05:20just set those compressors to Christian
1:05:22it's a little too jolly oh your time
1:05:24major key
1:05:25yeah right he made a week at all but
1:05:27there's something you know um they sound
1:05:29like they're smiling when they're
1:05:31singing which is not a bad thing but if
1:05:33you can really tell that it sounds like
1:05:34someone smiling it seems manic well any
1:05:37better smiles when these things but it's
1:05:39a grimace smile it's like wow that's
1:05:41what I want breakfast right but uh but
1:05:46yeah you're right there smiling because
1:05:47if you drown it lets the devil and but i
1:05:52would like shit
1:05:53another that over the last 10 years i
1:05:56have realized that my mom still has very
1:05:59very strong opinions about the war of
1:06:01the roses my goodness really she takes a
1:06:04side in the war of the roses and Kenya
1:06:08and has and there are people within the
1:06:10British royal family today that my mom
1:06:12cannot abide for reasons that have to do
1:06:16with the war of the roses
1:06:18I'm just like this is not this is not a
1:06:20regular thing so just just coming up for
1:06:23me and the audience here your mom grew
1:06:26up on a farm she did and I mean ink with
1:06:30very very modest means right i mean it's
1:06:33pretty her grandfather was a postman and
1:06:37being a postman during the Depression
1:06:40was actually a pretty good job because
1:06:42it was a regular job you're gonna lose
1:06:43it he always was also a farmer but like
1:06:46the postman thing but she wasn't going
1:06:48to kumon to learn about the war of the
1:06:50roses
1:06:51no this is something that was this was
1:06:53part of the fan i'm guessing here this
1:06:55is part of the families what oral
1:06:57history like what we think what we
1:06:59believe in like we're cooking Brooke
1:07:01people not Pepsi people this this came
1:07:03up like around the house like more than
1:07:04once a month
1:07:05well her great-grandfather course fought
1:07:08in the Civil War for ohio and at that if
1:07:12you look at a map of the south and the
1:07:15map of America at the time the South
1:07:18comes all the way up so on the east
1:07:22coast there like all the way from Maine
1:07:25all the way down to maryland you know
1:07:30the north is pretty long from there
1:07:32versus the South but at all at the point
1:07:36where Ohio touches the lake the North
1:07:38was exactly one statewide which is ohio
1:07:42and soho the Civil War had a lot of the
1:07:47Civil War had a different feeling i
1:07:49think from the vantage point of Ohio
1:07:52because the South was much wider than
1:07:56the north at that point and if you look
1:07:58even within the state of Ohio and the
1:08:00patterns of migration of people to the
1:08:03west southern Ohio is still it was
1:08:07southern how was populated with
1:08:09scots-irish and so who are the people
1:08:12that my mom is referring to when she
1:08:14says her business that's that's totally
1:08:16my family that's yeah I'm from
1:08:17Cincinnati most my family from Kentucky
1:08:19and there are like all uniformly english
1:08:22and irish yeah and then in the middle of
1:08:24Ohio there are people that you know
1:08:27there are sort of what you would call
1:08:30northerners from a Puritan kind of
1:08:35mercantile I have to amend that because
1:08:37I almost made a giant error also let the
1:08:38Germans I mean it's in all right we're
1:08:40not there's a lot of amino in
1:08:41Pennsylvania and throughout Ohio but
1:08:43anyway sorry continue
1:08:44actually I would feel bad if I didn't
1:08:46acknowledge my German here you have to
1:08:47acknowledge the Germans made me look at
1:08:48my last Merlin Mann
1:08:50and it's not oh man but then right
1:08:53across the top of Ohio there's this tiny
1:08:55thin bandits got only be a hundred and
1:08:57twenty miles wide that is a Quakers and
1:09:03like Quakers and pen and pencil in your
1:09:06doctor you know German calvinists and
1:09:10Pennsylvania Dutch we have learned is a
1:09:11misnomer right there actually works
1:09:14German th and really enjoyed exactly so
1:09:18so there's this tiny little band of what
1:09:21they I think in ohio regarded as the
1:09:23last vestige of set of civilization in
1:09:27the entire like middle portion of of
1:09:31North America and they really stood they
1:09:34felt like a bowl work and they and some
1:09:37of that persisted at least into the
1:09:39fifties i'm not sure how people in like
1:09:42toledo and then work feel now I i
1:09:47imagine that it's all just denny's and
1:09:49Sherry's they're like it is everyone
1:09:50else now but then it was yeah it's
1:09:53pretty strong feelings at but but what's
1:09:55crazy about it and I think it's the same
1:09:58in my father's family their connection
1:10:00to the past is still so strong even as
1:10:04they even as they have lost exactly what
1:10:07their problem was exactly what there's
1:10:09what was going on right yeah but like my
1:10:13mom if you start talking about the
1:10:14Lancaster's and a you know and like the
1:10:19regular in the later as is yeah she's
1:10:22gonna she's going to like this whole
1:10:25business with Richard the third
1:10:26she's got real strong feelings about it
1:10:28see the hunchback in the parking lot in
1:10:30the parking lot that's a terrific Morsi
1:10:32song yeah that's a ROG back in the part
1:10:34well well launched by the bar law did
1:10:38you read that story recently about what
1:10:40Morrissey appeared on the Johnny Carson
1:10:41show and the and the other guest on the
1:10:43program was the Morsi finally appeared
1:10:46on the Carson show in like nineteen
1:10:48ninety-one right after Carson had
1:10:51announced his retirement before he was
1:10:53gone
1:10:53Wow and the other guest on the program
1:10:55that day Bill Cosby oh my god and so
1:11:00should be in ESPN 30 for 30 on that
1:11:02that's me
1:11:03using it's an incredible moment in top
1:11:06headline 25 years ago Morsi ruined Bill
1:11:08Cosby's appearance on the tonight show
1:11:10yeah well not only rude but like
1:11:11actually rule like Johnny Carson said on
1:11:14Air several times i wish i was already
1:11:16retired
1:11:17Wow because there was all this pent-up
1:11:20Morrissey energy the smiths had never
1:11:22appeared the smiths never had a hit
1:11:24really like so within the popular
1:11:27culture there was very little actual
1:11:30awareness about the smiths and who the
1:11:31hell is Morrissey and Morrissey had gone
1:11:34on record several times saying likewise
1:11:36belinda carlisle on the Carson show and
1:11:38I'm not in his in his wonderful style is
1:11:42he is humble and an admirable style
1:11:46thank you but he arrived on the scene
1:11:48and like everyone in the audience was a
1:11:51morrissey superfamily be completely
1:11:53disrupted the show ruined it in every
1:11:55way screaming for Morrissey throughout
1:11:58and you can see Bill Cosby and Carson
1:12:01these two dinosaurs at the you know from
1:12:04the end of the from the the long-ago
1:12:06times trying to grasp you know they make
1:12:09comments about people with blue hair and
1:12:12it really really like a transitional
1:12:16moment and I thought that you would I
1:12:18thought that'd be a thing that you would
1:12:19love also i mean i think about this from
1:12:22my own point of view today there's a few
1:12:24things that are more insufferable than
1:12:26allowed audience screaming
1:12:28enthusiastically for something you've
1:12:30never heard of its kind of maddening
1:12:33I'm trying not to be that guy because
1:12:35I've been that guy and I've been on the
1:12:37other end of that I've been on the other
1:12:38end of that but I mean like there's
1:12:39something like on a show like that much
1:12:41especially with let's be honest with a
1:12:42guy coming out
1:12:43I mean that's that was probably that was
1:12:46probably not the best place for him to
1:12:48be but it but it was a triumph for him
1:12:51right in the it in that he was able to
1:12:53Akita invite arrived he had he was
1:12:56finally on the Carson show and and i
1:13:00think that there was a really good quote
1:13:01from Morrissey when he was like I am
1:13:03tired of being this successful with no
1:13:08recognition to be set weary i'm weary
1:13:11I'm I'm so we
1:13:14the position where success at this level
1:13:17the level so weary that doesn't mention
1:13:20i'm weary haha you're Morrissey is
1:13:24amazing i picked this the and I'm
1:13:26sticking to it all day i cannot imitate
1:13:30morrissey four lots and lots of reasons
1:13:32which you seen the footage of when they
1:13:36might be giants from there the right
1:13:38it's incredible it's we talked about
1:13:40this i guess but like I can't speak for
1:13:42the johns but they seem so like
1:13:45legitimately joyful to be playing with
1:13:46Doc Severinsen yeah and they've got the
1:13:48whole band crankin and you know flans
1:13:51always had that on stage a that flames
1:13:55went on underwent a transformation in a
1:13:58way that like lanell had a certain
1:14:01onstage quality that he retains to this
1:14:06day he'll easily was like the talented
1:14:08dork at the talent contest but like he'd
1:14:11never really seemed like he was that
1:14:12happy to be up there but he was kind of
1:14:14smirk smiling adorable and looking at
1:14:18the camera to a certain degree like the
1:14:20immigration he was officially recognized
1:14:22he was sort of the frontman of that era
1:14:24and he was a he was he was present in
1:14:30what was what he was experiencing and
1:14:32and still is in the same way but flans
1:14:35early on never looked at the camera like
1:14:37if you look at that Carson thing he is
1:14:40not looking at the camera at all and
1:14:42he's doing his he's doing his flans
1:14:45thing and kind of not in the background
1:14:47exactly but like he's herky-jerky and
1:14:50he's that was part of it the bit that
1:14:53like if you don't like a like a there's
1:14:55somebody like kind of bits visually for
1:14:57them that were part of their thing like
1:14:59the big head guy and all that but also
1:15:00in all their videos there's a lot of
1:15:02deliberately like meta herky-jerky dance
1:15:05moves that are clearly to me like meant
1:15:08to be like an art like art rock it's a
1:15:11parody of rock and roll and it's like
1:15:14that you know i love the they might be
1:15:15giants invented the term past the dude
1:15:17that we use to this day like when crowd
1:15:19surfing first became a thing I think
1:15:21when I would refer to it as past the
1:15:22dude and like I still use that term like
1:15:24they had this like not a little
1:15:26overwhelming but but
1:15:28their distance from like the mainstream
1:15:30rock stuff and insulin insulin era
1:15:32friends were do that you know you it was
1:15:35it was a tongue-in-cheek but now you can
1:15:37see the life he legitimately just
1:15:38fucking rocks out whatever that
1:15:41transition was like not all of us say
1:15:44pass the dude
1:15:45still I should make that well it's not
1:15:47the thing that it was but but if you
1:15:50took plans work out of those early they
1:15:52might be giants moments and it was just
1:15:55Linnell
1:15:56Oh singing and playing the accordion it
1:15:59we wouldn't say that this was nerdy art
1:16:02rock right it would just be it would
1:16:04there be something going on lil playing
1:16:06the keyboard especially be closer to
1:16:08like solo jonathan richman where be fun
1:16:10and enjoyable it would be hard kind of
1:16:12thing it would be pop right yeah right
1:16:14and and but something and this is the
1:16:17thing it was something happened in in
1:16:20within the they might be giants dynamic
1:16:21particularly in Flansburg a person I
1:16:24know quite well that i do not i'm not
1:16:27sure I was not following closely enough
1:16:29to watch that transition and I think it
1:16:30might have been when they added a live
1:16:32band who wear flans took over to became
1:16:36a different character on stage and then
1:16:38was very much like looking at the
1:16:40audience present in a different way ass
1:16:43arrangements i mean not now windows so
1:16:45far maybe as a conductor but like having
1:16:48he adds so much of the color to what
1:16:51makes that a memorable song no matter
1:16:53who's singing it and he gets so much of
1:16:55the palette and the texture and like
1:16:56deciding what horns go we're on the
1:16:58Carson show it feels like he is a member
1:17:01of the severance and banned in a way
1:17:03like he's interacting with the band
1:17:05which is a huge compliment
1:17:07we have I mean that's a hell of a band
1:17:10yeah well when they appeared on
1:17:11letterman for the first time and they
1:17:13had Paul shaper and you got mugged away
1:17:15on his hamon turn it down Paul but you
1:17:19know you saw the soft plans more
1:17:21comfortable or at least differently like
1:17:23interacting differently comfortable
1:17:25different comfortable is a perfect
1:17:27description of they might be giants they
1:17:30might be giants differently comfortable
1:17:32I I definitely feel like a like an heir
1:17:39to that in a way that I wouldn't have I
1:17:43wouldn't have said before and like I
1:17:46wouldn't have in 1989 thought to myself
1:17:48I'm going to be an heir to this i mean
1:17:51is that go down all the way to your like
1:17:52comedy rock sellers
1:17:54yeah but like you know it'sit's it might
1:17:56be seen as ironic but your planet rock
1:17:58and roll solo and you're getting into
1:18:00your glasses are flying off your phone
1:18:01on the stage and it's actually pretty
1:18:02fucking great
1:18:03yeah but I'm also aware that it is a
1:18:06that is a pastiche of rock i'm aware
1:18:09that i am i'm commenting on rock solo
1:18:12but i'm also really really enjoying rock
1:18:14solo and perhaps that's a product of the
1:18:18era that it too and in that sense it's
1:18:22an heir to Punk even through throughout
1:18:27they might be giants refraction who
1:18:30write like that to whatever degree that
1:18:32they might be giants think of themselves
1:18:33as part of a of the punk experience and
1:18:38then they refracted that and you know
1:18:41and that end up influencing me but you
1:18:44wouldn't listen to my music and think
1:18:45anything really
1:18:48you wouldn't think you wouldn't think
1:18:50Punk you certainly wouldn't think metal
1:18:52you wouldn't think I mean it
1:18:53the music as recorded sounds very much
1:18:56like the the the very specific early in
1:19:03the soft rock and that's not it's not in
1:19:08the songwriting especially have trouble
1:19:10putting your still have a lot of trouble
1:19:12putting stuff in a box somebody to get
1:19:13me a few days ago saying what he say so
1:19:17i think some lines if he likes you know
1:19:19the long winter stuff NEX ask me in
1:19:21particular like what i would recommend
1:19:22from today's artists that would be
1:19:25comparable and and I felt like there's
1:19:26like three different ways i wasn't sure
1:19:28how to answer not least of which I'm not
1:19:29up on music today but honestly without
1:19:31kissing your ass
1:19:31I've always had a hard time with the
1:19:33comparisons people make I don't hear
1:19:35what they're talking about
1:19:36unless you're overtly like quoting a
1:19:38judas priest or ac/dc cadence as a thing
1:19:41I don't hear the RM stuff i don't hear
1:19:43all that
1:19:44right isn't even say which I heard a lot
1:19:47at the time
1:19:48really are you really influenced by XTC
1:19:50and I was like not really and I don't
1:19:51hear the comparison maybe shapes I the
1:19:56the thing I hear a lot is and i heard it
1:19:59at the time like people would come to
1:20:00our live shows and they would they they
1:20:02didn't tweet and be because it didn't
1:20:03exist but they would email me or comment
1:20:07on message boards and say I want to see
1:20:10them live and they were like the fucking
1:20:12who I loved them but then I listen to
1:20:14the records and it's so soft i can't get
1:20:18into the sounds so soft is very
1:20:21different and I hear that still from
1:20:24people that are like I listen to the
1:20:25band and I just couldn't reconcile it
1:20:28with the person i know from the podcast
1:20:29because I like hard rock and you talk
1:20:33about hard rock and I assumed it would
1:20:35be harder rock and like yeah when we
1:20:38were in the studio we were recording
1:20:40those tunes and chris wallace was the
1:20:41producer and it was an era specific era
1:20:45that was suspicious of distortion
1:20:48suspicious of loud bass and big heavy
1:20:52bombastic stuff even coming from a
1:20:55punk-rock places like that nana and what
1:20:59your songs didn't want that I don't
1:21:01think they could have been recorded in a
1:21:04way that if there was one more guitar on
1:21:07every track that was that just was going
1:21:09through a rat pedal and playing the
1:21:11e-string only hmm not open e only but
1:21:14but following the chord progression but
1:21:16just playing on one string down down
1:21:18down down and it would just be more rock
1:21:22it would sound rock
1:21:23I sure I mean it's your music but like I
1:21:26one of the things i treasure about in
1:21:30particular uh the green 1i want a
1:21:32pinfall is the is first of all I said
1:21:36before I think it's a UH a triumph of
1:21:39sequencing in the tracks and I really i
1:21:41would not want you to feel like you had
1:21:45to change blanket hardware you had to
1:21:47change it'll be a breeze like I'm glad
1:21:49there's not a dung dung on it'll be a
1:21:51breeze because that is the pacing it's
1:21:53an album it's a fucking album and I'll I
1:21:56i liked it has its little
1:21:58ups and it's downs and then that
1:21:59triumphant like last third like when you
1:22:01come out of the second side and starts
1:22:03didn't get what I wanted and that one
1:22:06started to start start aside to its not
1:22:09do we ball with you this mornin to ya no
1:22:17idea
1:22:18stupid stupid bad see I'm not a poser I
1:22:21know your songs like you don't know what
1:22:23they're called
1:22:24yeah but decided which i always think of
1:22:26as the beginning of side to right
1:22:28I don't intend it that way but that's
1:22:29what it feels like because there's like
1:22:31the big son said let go a bit crazy
1:22:32ending you got the big like you know the
1:22:34end and then you don't mind telling you
1:22:35this who cares it's not Tom it's the tom
1:22:37petty thing right tom petty's like look
1:22:39man you gotta have the first one side
1:22:42tues got to be killer
1:22:43uh-huh and I was like yeah I mean we
1:22:45gotta we gotta decide to but stupid is a
1:22:46classic example of a song that when we
1:22:49played it live it was much harder rock
1:22:51than it was and even as we were
1:22:53recording it the drummer Michael
1:22:54Schilling said why are you not making
1:22:56this more rock was like well I got all
1:22:59these look like a chime i'm putting
1:23:01chiming guitars on also the when you
1:23:03play it live what I always remember if
1:23:05i'm remembering correctly was it was
1:23:06much more crunchy but also you would
1:23:09play up the weird rhythms of that song
1:23:12on in your guitar figures in a way that
1:23:14you didn't hear in the seemingly i wrote
1:23:17this on an acoustic guitar version on
1:23:19the record right you would play out
1:23:20these these funny little special try to
1:23:21remember but I can't stop my head but I
1:23:23would remember always thinking like why
1:23:25is he making this like more janky but it
1:23:26worked
1:23:27yeah my contacts the accents are in
1:23:29places that you wouldn't expect
1:23:31yeah but i think that somehow you sing
1:23:32so compliments how you sing so it makes
1:23:34it more more pokey in the way that you
1:23:38you kind of punctuated and do your own
1:23:40Jamal what I thought
1:23:42another great thing from having Giants a
1:23:43lot like line run over like such a great
1:23:45thing I was trying to make it pokey
1:23:47because that's what girls like oh but i
1:23:50think the example and I that I can't
1:23:52believe that we have to we have
1:23:53generated to actually a music critic
1:23:56music critic in my own music here but
1:24:00but but uh from later hater high which
1:24:03should not be named that it was named
1:24:07that by the by Josh Roosevelt the head
1:24:10of the record company
1:24:11in one of those weird last-minute things
1:24:13where the song had always been called
1:24:15Jet City we still put it on the setlists
1:24:18as jet city really and at the last
1:24:21possible minute it was it was jet city
1:24:23when i started writing it was jet city
1:24:25throughout the whole nine months before
1:24:27the record came out but rosenfeld in
1:24:30like that record label thing where the
1:24:32record label owner is like haha maybe I
1:24:34should make a contribution to this why
1:24:36don't you change the name of the song
1:24:37too problematic hater high and I was
1:24:41vulnerable enough for susceptible enough
1:24:43to that kind of contribution that was
1:24:46like oh ok and then it went
1:24:48Emmy seriously he said that as we were
1:24:50doing the artwork for the for the record
1:24:52you can do you still think of it as just
1:24:53city it's absolutely jet-setting that's
1:24:56what we write on are on our side it's a
1:24:58way better sauce the way better name for
1:25:00the song but the recording of that too
1:25:04which when we play that new girl was
1:25:07actually originally called a 14-point
1:25:08type you know it's called 40-foot
1:25:10motherfucker but uh but when we were
1:25:13recording that song I mean when we play
1:25:14when we play jet city live we play it
1:25:17like a like a rolling stone song from
1:25:20exile on main street yeah and when we
1:25:23recorded it i mean that's how I wrote it
1:25:26but then as we were recording we were
1:25:27like why don't we get a violin player in
1:25:29here and then the violin player we got
1:25:32with was a sarah from chris's weird i
1:25:36love her parts on that and she's playing
1:25:39kind of fiddle she's doing a family
1:25:40thing plus you got her don't you have
1:25:41like a lot i like crazy harmonica on
1:25:43that one
1:25:44yeah fill in all kinds of other stuff
1:25:45he'll meet hillbilly music that really
1:25:48hillbilly faiz the song and what the
1:25:51song what the way it was written and the
1:25:54way I think now probably should have
1:25:56been recorded was with some down to down
1:25:59it you know like it should have just
1:26:00been a rock and roll song but that
1:26:02wasn't our instinct at the time it was
1:26:04like let's throw the let's throw the
1:26:06whole refrigerator at this and we don't
1:26:09have it we don't have another another
1:26:12song with like a hillbilly violin so
1:26:15let's so that's one thing we haven't
1:26:17explored yet let's put it on this song
1:26:19you know like we were trying if you
1:26:21listen to our music we're just trying
1:26:22over and over to put
1:26:24every style of everything in in the
1:26:27records you have a credit for dr dre
1:26:29keyboard memory serves
1:26:31dr. dre keyboard Scott McCoy is on one
1:26:34of the songs just standing in the studio
1:26:36quietly and we have Scott McCoy on a
1:26:40track where really we just we put up the
1:26:42mics and he stood in there and stared at
1:26:44us through the window maybe just
1:26:47recorded Scott McCoy standing in a room
1:26:49and we included on the track so it was
1:26:52that implements a barrage of they might
1:26:54be giants impulse to like let's a let's
1:26:59do weird things even in the studio that
1:27:03no one will ever know about it but it
1:27:04would but it'll be fun and artistic but
1:27:08the thing was we never develop the long
1:27:11winters never developed a definable and
1:27:13unified sound and that would enable
1:27:17somebody like you now to say like oh
1:27:19right
1:27:20our city they sound like something yeah
1:27:23yep service I mean reading or or
1:27:25Interpol sounds like Joy Division who
1:27:28and I'm and i use those examples as
1:27:31ridiculous examples
1:27:33Silversun Pickups sound like billy
1:27:36corgan the smartest boy in the world but
1:27:40you know there's not you can't even say
1:27:42about the long winters like oh they're
1:27:44rock and roll because not i mean that's
1:27:47the way we that's why we are live and
1:27:48i'm a rock-and-roll person but at the
1:27:52time we just were we were going is
1:27:54completely we were exploring the art of
1:27:57recording as separate from the other
1:28:00arts I'm glad you did I wouldn't change
1:28:02a stitch of it iie a not really treasure
1:28:05those records you don't see I mean as
1:28:07much as like me what the worst you
1:28:10didn't harm is is a really really good
1:28:12record but in my head I still sometimes
1:28:14think that it's I still encourage people
1:28:17and hope you approve or don't hate me
1:28:20for this but I still encourage people to
1:28:21start with one of tend to fall I I think
1:28:24you might even be able to enjoy where
1:28:26she does harm or after that we have to
1:28:30do the show chrono no not necessarily
1:28:32I do think that the first record is you
1:28:35know I was coming out of the Western
1:28:37State hurricanes where we
1:28:38we were very rock rock band and i was i
1:28:42was making a lot of decisions there that
1:28:44were reactive or they were reactionary
1:28:47like the Hurricanes where this thing now
1:28:49i'm doing this other thing which is
1:28:51different and if you do a hurricane song
1:28:53it's gonna sound really different super
1:28:55consciously making it sound different by
1:28:58pretend to fall
1:28:59I was just writing songs and recording
1:29:01them how I wanted and then putting the
1:29:05days to bed which I talk to people all
1:29:07the time whether like that was the first
1:29:08record of yours I heard the time I like
1:29:10this so weird and that's one where I was
1:29:15like again maybe more consciously saying
1:29:18like I want to get I want to bring some
1:29:20rock and roll back into the band
1:29:22I want the tunes to be a little bit more
1:29:24rocking or you know to it to a degree
1:29:28that doesn't seem incongruous but like
1:29:31and you know and that was that was
1:29:33successful I'm not successfully
1:29:35defending the video a solid don't even
1:29:40talk about the video almost any videos
1:29:44no I wish States hurricanes on 29 live
1:29:48yeah don't up still up on the YouTube
1:29:51that's the problem with the Western
1:29:52State hurricanes is that that was you i
1:29:54was still coming out of the bun family
1:29:56players with the with the Hurricanes and
1:29:58the bun family players there was no song
1:30:00that we could not ruin with it with a
1:30:02different time change in them like a
1:30:05different i'm seeing the true beauty
1:30:06like this you don't like that say what
1:30:08if we would have someone at the company
1:30:10was hard way we make it harder to like
1:30:12that what a driver stood up in the
1:30:14middle of a song stop playing the drums
1:30:16and played the French horn for 42
1:30:18minutes
1:30:19that sounds cool i like completely
1:30:21influenced by not even I mean not even
1:30:24they might be giants influenced by just
1:30:26like equal parts rush and circus
1:30:31contraption
1:30:34[Music]